ML021960316

Grover NRC OI Interview, 12/18/98

ML021960316
Person / Time
Site:	Browns Ferry, Watts Bar, Sequoyah
Issue date:	12/18/1998
From:	Grover R O NRC/OI, Tennessee Valley Authority
To:
References
-RFPFR, 2-1998-013, 50-259-CIVP, 50-260-CIVP, 50-296-CIVP, 50-327-CIVP, 50-328-CIVP, 50-390-CIVP, ASLBP 01-791-01-CIVP, EA-99-234, RAS 3933
Download: ML021960316 (75)

Text

I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 1.UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

--- --------- x In the Matter of: INTERVIEW OF RONALD 0. GROVER (CLOSED) --- --------- x Tennessee Valley Authority Lookout Place Building 12th & Chestnut Street Chattanooga, TN Friday, December 18, 1998 The above-entitled matter came on for interview, pursuant to notice. BEFORE: DIANE BENSON, Special Agent ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 EXHIBIT j ,GEj! OF Lp WGE(S) 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 EXAMINATION C O N T E N T S WITNESS RONALD 0. GROVER BY MS. BENSON E X H I B I T S IDENTIFIED ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 4 NUMBER (NONE.)

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 3 P R 0 C E E D I N G S (11:06 a.m.) MS. BENSON: For the record today's date is December 18, 1998. The time now is 11:07. I'm Special Agent Diana S. Benson of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission Office of Investigations, Atlanta, Georgia and I'll be conducting this interview.

During this proceeding which is being recorded for transcription NRC Office of Investigations will conduct an interview of Mr. Ronald 0. Grover. The spelling of Mr. Grover's last name is G-r-o-v-e-r.

This interview pertains to 01 Investigation No. 2-1998-013.

The location of this interview is TVA Lookout Place Building, Chattanooga, Tennessee.

Whereupon, RONALD OTIS GROVER the Interviewee, was called for examination and, having been first duly sworn was examined and testified as follows.

MS. BENSON: Mr. Easley, I ask -I'm sorry -Mr. Grover, I asked you to read over Section 1001 of Title 18 of the U.S. Code. Did you read over that? MR. GROVER: Yes. MS. BENSON: And do you understand that? MR. GROVER: Yes. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 4 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 MS. BENSON: Okay, and I also presented to you my credentials earlier identifying who I am. Do you recall that I did present those to you? MR. GROVER: Yes. MS. BENSON: Okay. EXAMINATION BY MS. BENSON: Q Mr. Grover, can you please state for the record your full name including your middle name? A Ronald Otis Grover. Q Can you spell your middle name, please? A O-t-i-s.

Q And your date of birth? A . Q And your social security number? A N.W Q And prior to the interview I indicated that we were going to discussing the 1996 Department of Labor complaint filed by Mr. Gary Fiser concerning alleged discrimination by TVA against him. This concerned the reorganization that was going on the Nuclear organization.

In particular the Corporate Chemistry Division here in Chattanooga in which one of the positions, the Chemistry position, was eliminated and the other two were posted. Mr. Fiser was subsequently not selected for that 5 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 ".15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 position.

His initial complaint was that he felt that the position shouldn't be you know posted but also that he was not selected for that position.

Okay. Can you please provide me with the history of your employment with TVA including the positions you've held and the responsibilities you had in those positions?

A Okay. I was hired in February 28th of 1994 as the Corporate Chemistry Manager for the Nuclear Group supporting the nuclear sites that TVA currently owns and operates.

That included at the time the operating units. Well the active sites were Watts Bar, Browns Ferry, and Sequoyah.

I had responsibility for at the time there were four positions in -let me correct that. There were -well there were three positions reporting to my particular position.

Two of the positions were currently filled and there was a vacant position which was at the same level PGA as the other two positions that were currently filled. Shortly thereafter once I was here I guess about a month, a month and a half it was explained to me that Mr. Fiser at the time he wasn't actively in the organization would be coming to our -back to our organization and filling that position.

Q And that was in regards to his settlement of his 1993 DOL complaint?

A Correct, as I understand.

I wasn't involved in ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 6 1 that at all because I wasn't here at the time when that 2 transpired, so when Mr. Fiser came on board he filled that 3 position and we basically had a complete group at that time 4 based on the number of positions in the organization.

About 5 July of that same year we went through another 6 reorganization.

7 Q In '94? 8 A In 1994. 9 Q Okay. 10 A And the objective there that affected us 11 immediately was to combine the Chemistry Organization and 12 the Environmental Protection Organization.

Environmental 13 Protection Organization had five positions as I recall so 14 went through a process again. 15 I guess the big picture objective was we had to 16 reduce staffing, budget considerations, that sort of thing 17 so combining functions is generally one way you know you 18 look at to accomplish that end. At the time we were -was 19 given direction to look at combining the two organizations.

20 They had a manager that was in place of that group 21 so we had to combine the two functions into one group, and 22 the total number that was decided upon was five individuals 23 including the manager.

24 So you took three total people from Chemistry and 25 I believe it was five people from Environmental and combined ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them into one group with one manager. At the time based on the policy we basically had to rewrite the job descriptions and combine them into one job description.

Vacated the positions including my position.

All these positions were vacated and everyone had to interview for the vacant positions including the managers.

Okay, so we went through that -Q What position did you end up with as a result of that reorganization?

A I was selected for the manager's position which was the manager of Chemistry

-Corporate Chemistry and Environmental Protection.

Q Were there any other managers at the time? A That applied for the position?

Q No, there was just one manager position?

A One manager position but you had two managers you had to combined into one position.

Well other things transpired as well at the same time because at the time I reported directly to Wilson McArthur who was manager of Technical Support which had other sub-groups reporting to him. Well that was split out. That group was split up, and so we ended up in our immediate realm of RADCON Organization having one manager and Chemistry and Environmental having one manager.

ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 8 1 Q Okay. 2 A And those positions were made to set up at the 3 same level. 4 Q Okay, so Mr. McArthur held the RADCON? 5 A Right. 6 Q And you were the RADCHEM? 7 A Chem Environmental.

I was Chem Environmental.

8 Wilson McArthur was RADCON. 9 Q Okay, and were those equal positions?

10 A Yes, they were made equal positions.

11 Q Okay. 12 A And the other groups that he had were split out. 13 He had emergency prepardness and fire protection so those 14 were split out and put under different organizations.

15 Q And that was in July of '94 that reorganization?

16 A Yes, we initiated July of '94 and I think it was 17 finalized in August or -I can't remember.

It was between 18 August and September is when it was all done. It all took 19 place. 20 Q Did you have to apply for that position?

21 A Yes. 22 Q Do you know whether Mr. McArthur had to apply for 23 his position?

24 A Yes, everything was -all positions were vacated.

25 Everyone had to reapply and other applicants

-- for those ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 9 1 positions.

2 Q Okay, so was there a new job description that was 3 written for you as a result of that -4 A Yes. 5 Q And was there a new job description that was 6 written for Mr. McArthur?

7 A As I recall, yes. 8 Q Okay. 9 A Because you changed -there was a major change in 10 the function and responsibilities.

You know there were new 11 job descriptions written for all the positions reporting 12 too. 13 Q But to the best of your recollection Mr. McArthur 14 did have to bid for that position?

15 A As far as I know he did now because he was in a 16 different capacity.

17 Q Did you ever see the job description that was 18 written or posted as a vacant position that Mr. McArthur 19 subsequently filled? Was that advertised throughout the 20 Agency? 21 A I believe it was. I can't you know say for sure 22 but it would seem if I recall correctly it was advertised.

23 Q Okay. 24 A As well as-25 Q Who was handling that reorganization as far as ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A I don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure he had the interview but I don't know whether there were others that applied. I'm sure that HR would have that information.

They should. Q Okay. So anyway you were selected for the new position as the RADCHEM Environmental

-ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 10 from the Human Resources perspective?

A Ben Easley was the main contact and he worked closely with the General Manager at the time which was John Majeskie and they worked pretty close together to make sure we were following what the proper procedure was and so forth. Q Okay. I guess what I was asking you know you saw your own vacancy announcement and applied for that position.

Were you interviewed for that? A Yes. Q And who interviewed you? A John Majeskie.

Q And were there any other candidates that had applied for your position?

A Yes, there were at least two to three. I know there were at least two to three others. Q And what about the position that Mr. McArthur was bidding for do you know whether anybody else applied for that?

11 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Chem Environmental, right. Q Chem Environmental Manger and that was like August time frame of 1994? A Yes, July to September.

That window there. Q And Mr. Fiser was also -bid for and was selected for one of the positions.

Did he have to interview for his position also? A Yes. Q And basically in those Chemistry positions the functions of the Environmental functions were just combined and I note you talked in depth in your deposition about you know the percentage that was being done. A Right. Q And you know basically my interview with Mr. Easley he indicated that he was the one that had done the comparison of the position and that he felt that that job should have been posted because there was a change in the job description.

Do you recall anything different about you know the position that Mr. Easley took at that time? A No. I mean there was consistent

-I mean it was consistent with you know as I understand it the HR policy that was established.

If you -they used an arbitrary percentage like if the job function changes by more than I think it was fifteen percent -I think it's fifteen percent ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 12 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 then you're required to rewrite it and post it. Basically, it was explained to us it two approaches.

If you don't change a job you're going into a staff reduction if you don't change your jobs. Then you basically go on seniority.

You know how long you've been here verses the other people. Okay, other than that so it's either that avenue or if there is a significant change in your job you rewrite the job position description and vacate all the positions and everyone vying for them on equal basis. Q Okay. A So this particular situation fit you know the second avenue which was you had to make -you're combing two major functions into one so it's a significant change that that was you know the course that was taken. Q I guess in your past interviews you had indicated that you didn't really have any long discussions with Mr. Fiser about his being placed into that one Chemistry position right after you first came on with the organization and that you know you just felt that that was separate.

You wanted to develop your own opinion of him and it appears that basically when he worked with you what was your evaluation of his abilities?

A Overall I felt he was a very good engineer, support engineer, for the sites. When he returned to TVA I ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 13 1 had just met him. I never -I didn't know him before hand. 2 He didn't come back with you know a chip on his shoulder or 3 he was upset with somebody.

4 He just came back and went to work, rolled up his 5 sleeves and got in with the rest of us and we established 6 some goals and objectives, what we wanted to do at the 7 sites, and even his major focus was Watts Bar. We were 8 really in a situation where they had a lot of issues they 9 needed to get resolved to get it on track for start up. 10 He came in and was very instrumental in the 11 Chemistry and Environmental areas of helping get Watts Bar 12 started up. I think if you talk with them they would echo 13 the same sentiments but a good individual as far as 14 attitude, a lot of Plant experience.

You know from his you 15 understood he was at Sequoyah -- Sequoyah's as the 16 Chemistry Manager but his main -I would say his strong suit 17 was his Plant experience on site. More of a hands on type 18 work. Interacted very well with the people. No problems 19 with him getting along or not being able to work with this 20 individual, that sort of thing. They all would continually 21 call me and tell me you know how good of a job he is doing. 22 He's here. He's supporting us. He stays and he works long 23 hours2.662037e-4 days <br />0.00639 hours <br />3.80291e-5 weeks <br />8.7515e-6 months <br />. What we need he is there to provide that for us. 24 You know we're a Corporate but we kind of had a 25 different role but we were more support oriented.

You know ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 "-'--- 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 you had Corporate function.

You've got -part of what you have to do is over site and part of what you have to do is support.

We were more of support oriented probably 70/30 split with 70 percent being more support and try to work out a good mix you know balance with the sites, but very good. Always focused on how to solve the problem instead of creating a problem.

Q Un-hum. A So he worked out you know very well while we were here together.

Q Okay. All right, I kindly jumped ahead actually of myself. I know what we were looking at was you know your positions going back really to the beginning.

A Un-hum. Q And in 1994 as a result of that one organization you posted for them or selected for the subsequent manager position there and how long -can you tell me what your procession was after that? A Right, that stayed in tact until -basically that stayed in tact until 1996 when we had the second -during my tenure the second major reorganization that took place starting in I believe it was about April of 1996 -March or April of 1996 is when it started to take place. Q Okay, and what positions did you hold as a result ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 15 1 of that -I mean afterwards?

2 A Well in that reorganization the decision was made 3 to combine again more staff reduction, how we're going to 4 combine RADCON, Chemistry/Environmental into one 5 organization.

6 Reduced the head count and the number of people in 7 the organization from current levels down to essentially 8 four reports to a single manager, so my position and Wilson 9 McArthur's position was combined into one position.

You had 10 four reports reporting to that manager.

11 Essentially we're going to delete all of the 12 Environmental support functions.

You were going to 13 basically what they did they just took one RADCON position 14 and added some Environmental responsibilities to that one 15 RADCON position.

16 Q Okay, and what did you end up with after that? 17 A Well the decision was made by the General Manager 18 at the time to select -19 Q And who was the General Manager? 20 A Tom McGrath.

21 Q And can you spell Mr. McGrath's last name, please? 22 A Oh, let's see I think it's M-c-G-r-a-t-h.

23 Q Okay, go ahead. 24 A The decision -he made the decision to select 25 Wilson McArthur for that Manager's position.

You know ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 16 that's what he decided to do. I did express to him all through the reorganization I was interested in interviewing for the position, but it was between him and HR. He made the decision to select Wilson McArthur.

Q And I'm going to examine that a little bit more closely but we'll come back to that. A Okay. Q I do have some specific questions to ask you about that, but anyway so Wilson McArthur was selected for this new position with RADCON, Chemistry

& Environmental and what did you get? What were you selected for? A Nothing. No position.

Q What happened to you at that point? A Well what happened I looked at -started looking you know at some other possible options. I continued to work along with Wilson and with the organization you know to help out as much as I could, plus I was still in support of the Plants in the Chemistry organization.

I initiated a request to INPO, Institute of Nuclear Power Operations, to go there for tour as a Company representative because we have like the equivalent of two and a half slots, or basically three slots there with INPO that we companies

-I'm sure you're familiar with it rotate company employees service so I initiated that request. Efforts were made to move along for me to -ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 17 I Q Who did you initiate that request to? 2 A Well I initiated the request to Tom McGrath.

3 Q Okay. 4 A I mean that was the procedure was to write a 5 letter to him. I don't remember whether it went above -I 6 know it went above him but I mean I can't -I don't recall 7 the initial but I think I wrote it to him or I wrote it to 8 Ike -or Tom McGrath. I can't remember exactly what -I 9 probably have a copy of it but I don't remember exactly who 10 it was addressed to. 11 Q Okay, so you filled the TVA slot at INPO from what 12 time -what time period are we talking about? 13 A Well I finally ended up starting there September 14 30th of 1996, and I ended that tour December 31st of 1997. 15 Q And where did you go after that? 16 A After I came back? 17 Q After you went to INPO -yeah, once you returned 18 from INPO? 19 A Oh, returned.

Well it's -I'm sort of in 20 transition.

I don't know how to categorize that but we're 21 we're trying to work out where do we go from here. Before I 22 went I worked with the organization.

Worked with HR and I 23 was put in a developmental status and had -- developmental 24 status with the objective of getting experience in INPO, 25 coming back, laying out a career path, and proceeding from ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 18 1 there. 2 Okay, and that included going to SRO certification 3 class and then work. You know going from there but we would 4 sit down -being assigned a mentor -Vice President mentor, 5 Vice President level mentor, but for some reason or other it 6 didn't all transpire like it was initially laid out. 7 I've been -you know I'm just being honest with 8 you I've been -I've been very patient with the organization 9 and we're trying to work with HR to work this out. 10 I've done a couple of special projects.

That's 11 the work down at Brown's Ferry but what I did was I 12 initiated several options, career options, and put them on a 13 table. I think you know they have them and we're -you know 14 I don't want to get off on a tangent but -15 Q No, no. 16 A But we're trying to work that out. 17 Q Yeah. 18 A I mean that's to be -19 Q Who in Human Resources are you working with on 20 that? 21 A Ed Boyles. He's the point of contact and 22 organizationally I report to Jack Bailey. I'm on his staff 23 reporting to him. 24 Q Jack Bailey? 25 A Jack Bailey, who is the VP of -Vice President of ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 19 Engineering.

Q Okay. That brings us up to today and it really kind of right now sounds like since you've been back from INPO that you might be given work in projects and so forth but right now you don't really have a job is what it amounts to?1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Correct.

Okay, and prior to coming to TVA what were you doing? A I was the Corporate Chemistry Manager at the New York Power Authority, and I was there for eleven years. Prior to that I worked for the DuPont Company at a production plant in Seaford, Delaware for about two and a half years, and prior to that was in the Navy for five years. Q What did you do in the Navy? A In the Navy I was a nuclear engineer.

Q Okay. A So I qualified as a Certified Engineer in the Navy of the Nuclear Power Program. I served aboard the aircraft carrier USS Enterprise, and that's pretty much the stint of it. Q I think they interviewed the CO the other day on the Enterprise if I'm not mistaken.

A Oh, is that right during this --ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 A Q 20 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Yeah, on CNN during this -A Yeah, I didn't see that. Q Okay, so basically you had eleven years with New York Power or Electric as Corporate Chemistry Manager and so you did have a pretty good Chemistry background prior to coming to TVA? A Correct, and most of my operation background is with the Navy. Q Un-hum. A I did work in operations and did Chemistry RADCON, Environmental with the Navy. I was the Officer directly responsible for that for you know the whole program.

In addition, it qualifies in the operations to it's equivalent to the SRO so basically you had to qualify well you had to qualify -I'm trying to make it equivalent to you know civilian RO but the additional qualification was basically the SRO qualifications.

Q Just for the record I don't know if he mentioned to you what the acronym SRO stands for, did he? A Senior Reactor Operator.

Q And RO would be Reactor Operator?

A Right. Q I'm going to go back now that we've established you know your background.

During the time period of 1996 according to what I've seen so far or heard or read -ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 A Un-hum. Q I guess when they posted the position, the Chemistry positions, there one of them that Mr. Fiser had been holding at some point and time you were over at Sequoyah from what I read in your deposition and you were approached by Charles Kent and Gordon Rich. In your deposition you indicated that it says Howard in your deposition but I don't know if that's Gordon Rich or Charles Kent -indicated that they wanted to transfer Sam Harvey's and Harvey is H-a-r-v-e-y position to Sequoyah because they had a vacancy when someone had left the year before. Do you recall this? A Yes. Q Okay, do you remember who specifically talked to you about transferring Mr. Harvey out there? A Well both Charles and Gordon. Q Okay. A I was out there we were meeting or it was some -I can't remember what I was out there for something related to -work related. I didn't go specifically for that and then of course all this -when all this started to transpire you know the guys told me and you know my objective was anytime you go through organization staff reduction my objective is I like to see everybody have a job after it's over whether it's in our organization or somewhere.

ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 22 One of the things I try to do is work aggressively to see whether we can get -if there is any employment opportunities that it works out for people, that's what they want I try to do all I can to promote that and make that happen. I say that because I told the whole staff look, we'll talk to you at the respective sites. Tell them what's going on. Also, tell them to somehow feed back response, feedback any response you know if you're doing a good job and they feel you're doing a job you need to feed that back to the organization because that's what counts. If there is any other opportunities I'll be more than happy to support you in that, so anyway we were out there for some work and they approached me both Charles and Gordon about the possibility of transferring Sam. Sequoyah was his Plant and he supported you know the most. The way we were lined up where each individual had one site that they primarily

-they were the primary contact. Not saying they didn't work in other areas which we did. We crossed over and that sort of thing as we needed to but they approached me and said that we'd like very much to try to move his position out to Sequoyah.

Either transfer him into the vacant position or move his current position from Corporate and have him transfer over. I said you know I told them I said you know ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23 it was constructive.

It was positive and I said well that's -I wouldn't have any problems with that. I would support that. I said I want to go to Sam first and talk to him. If that's what he wants to do, fine because there is nothing -I don't want anyone to feel like we're trying to force someone out of the organization, this thing and the other. I went to Sam and I talked to Sam and I said look, this is your call. If you want me to try to help make this happen if I can I will. If you don't, if you want to stay in Corporate it's up to you. You know it's your decision.

See we work very closely. I mean I work very closely with the guys of course. It wasn't like I felt uncomfortable.

They felt uncomfortable talking to me about it you know so it wasn't like it was confidential or this, that, and the other in that respect.

Q Okay. A We had discussion and I talked with Sam, and Sam said yes, I'd be interested in doing that since it looks like we're going to be losing at least one Chemistry position potentially so I said fine. I went and talked to Ben because they wanted to try to move this thing on and Charles asked me to go talk to -I got the message through Wilson that Charles wanted to go ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 24 ahead and initiate this so I went and talked to Ben to find out what the process was you know. Q Just to interrupt you right there -A Yes. Q When you mentioned Wilson that's Wilson McArthur?

A I'm sorry. Wilson McArthur and Ben Easley. Q At that point was Mr. McArthur in agreement with this? A Well he was more relaying -you know he had stopped me and said that at the time well they're waiting.

Has anything been done to transfer Sam out there you know because Charles asked me about it you know. They talked to him about it and I said well, no I was thinking since it was their position they would you know -see if they had a position they wanted to bring me they would send out a request letter down to our organization requesting that that be considered.

Now if we're transferring our position out to them then you know so based on how you're doing it, based on who initiated

-it would depend on who initiated it. Anyway, I said well let me go and talk to HR and find out what the option, what is the process.

Ben said back to me that I needed to talk with Tom McGrath about it and I started with him because I didn't know if he was aware of it or if they had mentioned it to 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 \-- 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 25 him, or just what so that's when I went in and talked with Tom about it to try to get it initiated if that's what they wanted to do. I certainly

-it sounded like a good option to me and I didn't have any problem with it. That's what the site expressed they wanted and that's what Sam expressed that they wanted so I wanted to try to do what I could to support that. Q Okay, and basically in your deposition you indicated that Mr. McGrath's response was not in support of either filling that vacancy or the transfer of Harvey down there? A That's correct. He expressed he wasn't -hadn't heard anything about it, wasn't aware of it. Then I went back and I tried to fill him in on what had happened and that they had expressed interest.

They asked me to initiate -to get the ball rolling if you will. You know he was pretty adamant. He wanted to keep Sam here at the Corporate and he really looked upon him as the PWR guy and wanted to keep that expertise here. I didn't you know we didn't -it wasn't a confrontational exchange or anything.

I said well that's -if that's your decision that's fine. If you want to keep him down here because he knew we had two positions there. You know I fed that back to the sites and said ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 26 1 well that's what I was told you know. 2 Q Was there ever any suggestion by anyone that maybe 3 Mr. Fiser could go down there in that position?

4 A No. 5 Q Okay. 6 A And I wouldn't -I didn't -I wouldn't expect that 7 just based on my experience because -- line each site would 8 want the guy that they had been working with to establish a 9 relationship.

10 Q Right. 11 A Gary did work it. He did good work at Sequoyah.

12 We weren't in -- contact but he did good work at Sequoyah.

13 He did various things. We had -they first gave me Sequoyah 14 it had a lot of problems you know. The Chemistry Program 15 was kindly -- and you get a lot of tension. We didn't have 16 a good -we just had a new -- evaluation and had some 17 significant things come up. 18 We tried to pool a lot of -you know we pooled our 19 resources and our objective was to get it turned around you 20 know so we worked closely with Gordon Rich and his staff out 21 there. We would do that. We would pool our resources and 22 Gary added a good piece to that you know that say Sam didn't 23 have. We packaged it you know and -24 Q Okay. 25 A And -- the other individual he did some things ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 27 1 there so -2 Q Prior to the posting of the Corporate Chemistry 3 positions that Harvey and Fiser bid on and I'm talking about 4 the PWR. 5 A Right. 6 Q The Pressure Water React -that's -7 A Yes, Pressurized Water React. 8 Q Position not the other one the boiling water one 9 but the pressurized one. Did Mr. Harvey work down at 10 Sequoyah on a temporary basis? Physically go down there and 11 temporarily assigned down there prior to the posting of this 12 other position?

13 A He wasn't transfer there permanently.

I'm trying 14 to remember the time. You know the way we kindly set up and 15 operated one of our exhortations was that the individuals 16 would spend the majority of time at the site Sequoyah and 17 the sites based on what we've already worked out and what 18 they had to accomplish.

19 Now I can't remember -there were a couple of 20 stints there where he was supporting steam -cleaning 21 evolutions.

I can't time wise we were doing the steam 22 generator cleaning and on that basis he was kindly assigned 23 on a temporary basis with the steam generator group. He was 24 providing the Chemistry function for that. 25 I can't remember.

It may have been we were doing ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 "15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 28 a cleaning and he was spending quite a few days during that time frame. Yes, he was. Let me back up because he was because when we did all -when we were going through the position descriptions I had to get -take copies out and we had to get his input. Yes, he was. He was working on a steam generator cleaning project at the time. Q Okay, and that was before these other positions had been posted? A Correct, correct.

Q Do you remember about how long he was down there? A It could have been at least two to four months I would imagine. I can't remember because usually they start before the project. You have to stage up, bring your equipment.

You know it's a major evolution.

Q Okay, and I'm going to jump over to the conversation that you had with Mr. Voeller who is Watts Bar. Is that correct? A Correct.

Q And that's the site that Mr. Fiser had been supporting in which Mr. Voeller contacted you I guess on the phone, telephone and had told you about a conversation he had with Sam Harvey regarding his working with Watts Bar a lot i the future. Do you remember that phone conversation?

A Yes, and how it transpired Gary had called me. Gary Fiser called me. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 29 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 Q Okay. A It on a trip on my way back from Brown's Ferry and he had called me while we were driving and stated that what he was told -what he told me was Dave Voeller had called him up and asked him about the position whether the decision was made and Sam was selected to go in the position and Gary said no, I don't know anything that has happened.

As far as I know it hasn't and so he in turn called me. Then I said well no, no one has told me anything and so I in turn called Dave Voeller and that's when I found out what Sam had -the conversation he had with Sam. Q Do you remember specifically what he told you? A Well as far as I recall he had basically told me that Sam had stopped up at the site -either stopped up or called him on the phone and told Dave that well it looks like he was going to be working with him a lot closer in the future in supporting Watts Bar which was told out of character because he hadn't done that in the past. We just assigned his primary Plant was Sequoyah.

He wants to get up there and talk with the guys and -I'm kindly paraphrasing so don't you know I don't remember it word for word but basically he was going to be going up. He was going to work closely with Dave Voeller and his staff and he will be coming up there and getting more involved with that, and this, that, and the other like 30 1 this is going to start right away you know. 2 You know Dave was kindly taken back. He had taken 3 that as well I guess the decision has been made that you're 4 going to be filling that position, and I said no, as far as 5 I know I'll check when I get back to the office but we have 6 to go through you know a selection process.

7 It's got to be posted, and it's got to be you know 8 interviewed for it and everything, so I was kindly taken 9 back by it all. Gary was very upset and I told him don't 10 worry about it. Don't blow up. Just hold your peace and 11 we're going to -you know I'll talk to HR and make sure 12 we'll still on track. I'll talk to Ben and made sure and 13 just follow the process. That's what we have to -we want 14 to do what we're supposed to do based on the process.

15 Q Un-hum. 16 A You know so and that's what -you know that's what 17 he did you know follow the process. You can't take that and 18 you know -we don't want to take that and go around with it. 19 Just do what you're supposed to do. 20 Q Did you -after you had your phone call with Dave 21 Voeller and the spelling of Mr. Voeller's last name is 22 V-o-e-l-l-e-r.

23 A Correct.

24 Q After you had that conversation with him did you 25 talk to Sam Harvey about this? ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 31 A I recall I initially didn't say anything to him. We probably ended up talking about it at some time later after you know the fact. I don't recall how it transpired but we ended up talking about it. Whether he came in or I asked him because we were in a meeting or something but you know the feed back I got was well you know it's all Dave has misunderstood what I was saying. I mean to say that if something to the effect that I meant to say well if I get the position I'll be working more closely with you. Well -Q Un-hum. A You really don't -there's no need to say anything until you're in the position you know. I think that was to that to that effect. I mean he said something to that effect but I didn't immediately approach him about that. I mean that was kindly -I wasn't even a party of that as far as him and I told all the people look, we've got to follow the process. Here is where the policy and here is what the process is supposed to -how it's supposed to work. You know I think all of us should follow the process. Now if something is done indirectly it will be addressed but we have to follow the process you know. Through the end you follow the process. You don't go make a big problem.

Follow the process.

Q Okay. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 32 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 A They're going to interview and they said they was going to follow through with it. Okay, let's follow the process.

Q Okay. Did you ever talk to anyone else about this such as Mr. McArthur?

A About Sam's conversation?

Q Un-hum. A No. Q Okay. A No. Q Going back to the selection of Mr. McArthur as the new manager, the combined manager of RADCOM Chem Section.

A Un-hum. Q When was he actually selected for that? Do you remember?

A It seems like it was back in June. June 15th. We had a big staff meeting. Tom McGrath called a big staff meeting. He made the formal announcement in the staff meeting. I believe it was like the middle of June, mid-June, 15th, something like that. Q Un-hum. A If I recall correctly.

Q And so that's when he started working in that capacity sometime in June? A Yes.

33 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q So that would have been before -was it before the posting of those -A Oh, yes, yes, it was way before the posting.

Q Okay. A Quite a bit of time compared to the process.

Q Before he was selected for this position how did you find out that this position was going to be combined?

A At the -Tom McGrath called a series of meetings up front to talk about well we've got a reorganization, reorganize.

He laid out some criteria initially here is what I'm looking at and the way -- functions, this, that, and the other. One of the things -one of his criteria was that we were going to combine these two groups and come up and then just have one manager for those two groups. That was known up front at one of his -put out with from one of his meetings.

Q And when did you indicate to Mr. McGrath that you were interested in applying for that position?

A It must have been shortly after he had mentioned that. We were -I had met with him for some other things I thing and you know I did mention to him that I would be interested.

Since it was only one position obviously I would be interested in applying for the position and interviewing for it. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 Q Okay, and what did Mr. McGrath tell you when you indicated you were interested in applying for that position?

A He didn't really provide any -I mean there was he may have said fine, and that was it. I mean there was no Q Okay, I guess maybe -A Specific acknowledgement okay, you know, I want to make sure this -it wasn't -you know we didn't really have a lengthy discussion about it. I just mentioned it. You know I just stated it to him that I was interested and he may have said okay, that's fine and that was it. Q When did you find out they were not going to post the position I guess would be more accurate and that you couldn't bid on the position?

A When he made the announcement at the meeting.

Q That's the first time you had been told anything?

A Right, correct.

Q About that? A Right. Q And did you speak to Mr. McGrath about this afterwards?

A No, I didn't discuss it. I mean you know Tom Tom seemed to -you know he impressed me as an individual.

When he makes a decision and that was his decision so he made the decision and there was no well let's talk about ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 35 1 this, or let's discuss it. He made his decision and that's 2 what he wanted to do so there was no -I didn't see any need 3 to go and talk and say well why don't we look at this again 4 and this, that, and the other. I mean -5 Q Well he had already made the decision?\

6 A Yeah. 7 Q And he -8 A Made the decision, made the announcement, put out 9 that information.

It was a formal -10 Q But he did not discuss it with you prior to that? 11 A No. 12 Q Okay, and who did you speak to about this? 13 A (No response.)

14 Q Did you consult with anybody regarding them not 15 posting that position?

16 A Yes, and let me preface it too -just for the 17 record. One thing I've tried to do throughout this whole 18 process is I don't want to -and I don't want to give an 19 impression but I try not to bring my situation and tie it in 20 with someone else's situation.

21 I know you have to ask the question but I'm just 22 letting you know up front and I don't want because this is 23 for the record and whoever gets this I want to make sure 24 it's clear and I've tried to state this all along my 25 situation is separate from Gary Fiser's situation.

ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 36 1 I'm trying to deal with my situation in a separate 2 manner and I don't want the impression to be given that well 3 I'm trying to tie in my own situation with Gary Fiser's 4 situation.

5 Q Exactly.

6 A And I'm not saying this to say that I want to 7 answer all your questions truthfully and fully. I just want 8 to make sure people understand that up front that it's not 9 there is no vendetta on my part because I'm just loaded up 10 in this and that's not the case. 11 Q Well you're just answering questions.

12 A That's what I want to -13 Q That are presented to you right now. 14 A Yeah. 15 Q And what you're really telling me from what I'm 16 hearing is that you're not filing a complaint yourself about 17 the way that was handled and that's fine. What I'm trying 18 to do they are separate, very separate situations.

19 A That's right, and I'm not you know opposed to 20 what you're asking but I just want for the record so that if 21 whoever gets the transcripts and reads this I don't want 22 them to get the wrong impression.

I want it on the record 23 that I'll answer your questions, all your questions, this, 24 that, and the other but I did -I did follow through and I 25 initiated discussions with HR. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 37 1 Q Un-hum, and who did you -2 A Ed Boyles. 3 Q Ed Boyles? 4 A Ed Boyles and Phil Reynolds.

5 Q Okay. 6 A Okay, I started with Ed -well actually I started 7 with Phil Reynolds and we brought Ed Boyles in. 8 Q Okay, and what were you told by these gentlemen?

9 A Well we had several meetings and I basically 10 expressed to them that I just didn't feel that based on 11 current established practices of HR, hiring practices, -12 Q Policy? 13 A And policies and that this wasn't done right. 14 You know I was put in a situation where I wasn't allowed an 15 opportunity to interview for a job which I would have met 16 the qualifications for, nor was allowed to you know was kind 17 of left out in the cold so to speak. I just felt as far as 18 the position that it should have been handled as far as 19 policy was concerned.

20 Q Did you ever talk to Ben Easley about this? 21 A Yes. 22 Q And what did Mr. Easley tell you? 23 A Well he acknowledged that you know as far as 24 policy is concerned his impression was that -his 25 interpretation was it should have been posted and so forth, ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 38 but you know he probably had some discussions with Ed and this and the other, whatever they made the decision.

He didn't you know -he worked -he directed -he was the -he reported directly to Ed Boyles. Ed Boyles reported to Phil so Ben could only express based on his understanding and experience with the policy to his direct report in telling well I think we should do this. My recommendation is we should do this, or handle it this way. If Ed decides to do something different, or he turns around and gives it to Phil Phil's -- are different then you know they override that and they decide to handle it this way. Q Okay. A So Ben -I just say that Ben didn't have the final -Q I understand that. A Decision on this but he was you know I mean he was consistent with the way I thought about it. Q Okay, did Mr. Easley indicate to you that he made this recommendation to Boyles and to Reynolds that this position should have been posted? A It seems like in our conversation we talked about that and he expressed that you know to them. Q Okay. A Okay, because I talked with all of them a lot you ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 "15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 39 know and particularly Ben because I worked closely with him because he was direct support in our organization.

Q Exactly.

A And then it seemed like we had talked about that and he did make that recommendation that that position should be posted. Q Okay, so initially

-A And he worked with Tom McGrath too so I think he pretty much expressed you know that. Q To McGrath also? A I can't give you a date and a time when all that transpired but I'm pretty sure my recollection is I recall he did that. Q Okay, and so you had discussions with both Mr. Reynolds and Mr. Boyles and what were they saying to you? A Well I think that -your reaction would say initially well we don't think it was done -well first we started out and I may be stumbling a little bit on this because I've never gone through having to rehash this but basically we started out well we feel that nothing was done wrong and Ed said that it was his decision to do this. I told him I didn't agree with that. I said I don't work for HR. You know I work for the General Manager Tom McGrath and it's his decision.

See HR advises. They say well here -HR's function is here is the policy, here is our ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 40 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 recommendation.

We would advise you to do this in handling this situation and so forth but the hiring manager or the manager in charge he makes the final call. He makes the decision which way he wants to handle the situation so I told him I didn't agree. I didn't think that was the case. I said regardless that position -that person in that position is the manager and that manager will make the decision based on how he wants to handle it. You advised and so forth and I can understand it. Well Ed said that he -and I told him I said well still I didn't -and then I got more feed back well we -well we decided to do it because we felt that if we had a posted it and interviewed and you weren't selected that you were going to file a complaint.

I said well you know I've been around here for a few years but I said why would I file a complaint if the policy was followed and I didn't get selected.

I said we're all you know I told them you know I said we're all big boys and I said I've worked for people -different companies before, different jobs and that's the way life is. Everything is not going to go your way and you have to pick up and move on. I said if I wasn't selected it was a fair process and I interviewed and I wasn't selected I wasn't selected.

When I came here I was only here for six -for four or five months and I had to reinterview for a position.

I said that's the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 policy. That's what you -when you agree to work for a company you agree to work under their rules and regulations, whatever the policy is. I said that it was done fairly. I said we did this back in '94 and you had not one complaint.

People had -you know didn't selected to positions they retired, had to find another job, this, that, and the other but no one complained because they knowed this was coming. They just asked for fairness.

Asked for fairness and it be done right, and everybody given a fair opportunity and that's all I said. That's all I would ask for. Just give me a fair -allow me a fair opportunity like you allow everyone else. You know don't arbitrarily change the rules because for whatever reason. I mean you've got something against a person or you like this person, or whatever the reason is but this should be a fair process.

Q Exactly.

A And so they -you know they took them to heart and then we went on from there and then we worked out well we want to work out you know a development plan for you and we want to try to work you in to a senior management level, and this, that, and the other so that's kindly how it got resolved.

I told them I said because you -you all just had just a couple of years ago you just went through this. You ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 know TVA as a whole went through this. You know big situation where they didn't -where there wasn't an unfair hiring, you know, interviewing, and placement practices and that sort of thing. Q Un-hum. A And I said well you know let's do what's right you know. That's all I'm suggesting here. Q So because of that -the last case they had they had new policy in place and basically in the situation with Mr. McArthur in that position they didn't follow up that policy that was implemented as a result of -- problems?

A As far as my understanding they didn't. Q Un-hum. A Now that's my understanding of it. You know this is written in black and white. It's written down. I mean it's not something that you have to depend on memory from. Q Did they have any other explanation to you other than well we thought if you didn't get selected that you would file a complaint?

A Well he sort -another reason was well Wilson was in the capacity where he had those groups reported to him anyway before hand and this was taken away so we feel that it was okay to put him in that position.

Q Un-hum. A And I told him I said why would I -what grounds ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 43 1 would I have for filing a complaint.

If I'm being treated 2 fairly -if you treat fairly there is no grounds for a 3 complaint.

4 Q Un-hum. 5 A And you're following the policy and they agreed 6 to those policies when they hired in what grounds would I 7 have to file a complaint.

8 Q Okay. 9 A I wouldn't feel compelled to file a complaint.

I 10 mean that's what the process is fine, I'll go look for a job 11 somewhere else. I had a job before I came to TVA. I'll 12 have a job after I leave. 13 Q Okay, let me ask you after you talked to them and 14 they told you you know their reasons for selecting Mr. 15 McArthur did you inquire as to how you could file a 16 complaint about really adverse action? 17 A No, you know, just being honest with you I told 18 them look, I'd like to resolve this in house. I want to 19 give this organization, the TVA organization, to let's 20 resolve this. Okay, in my mind I felt that injustice was 21 done. A mistake was made. Whatever you want to call it in 22 my mind it wasn't done right. 23 Q Okay. 24 A So let's try to work it out. 25 Q And did they ever come up with a -ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 44 A And I told them I didn't have any problems.

If I needed to talk with Phil you know I told Phil if I needed to talk with Ike --, if I need to talk with Mr. Kingsley, or if I need to go talk with the Chairman of the Board I have no problems in doing that. Set up the interviews I'll go talk to them. If we need -if they need to hear my views on it, whatever because that's how strongly I felt about it. Q And what did Mr. Reynolds say about that? A Well let me talk with them and we'll work you know let's see if we can work something out. We worked out -he thought well what would you like -you know so the next step well what would like to get out of this thing you know. Q Did they come up with a written agreement for you? A Yes. Q Okay, and -A Because I told them I said I don't want -I want it in writing what we agree to. Well let me put it this way. It wasn't and I don't want the impression to be given like this was a formal suit filed and there was a settlement.

We disagreed upon what's -where do you go from here. Q Right. A Okay, it was put in the letter well here is what we're going to -here is how we want to proceed with your ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 45 career. Q Okay. A And so it was done in that manner but I told them I said well I should be treated -I'm not asking for preferential treatment.

Treat me like you treat everyone else. Q Okay. A Okay, that's what I told them. Q Let me ask you two things. So your viewing is kind of a remedy. You know the offer that they made to you was remedy of that situation as far as you're not being allowed to post for that position, or compete for that position?

A Well you could -however you want to coin it. I mean I'm always the one let's try to work something else. Q Okay, let me ask you something.

If they had not been willing to do that and put you in the transition program what would you have done? A Well I would have taken other action. Q I know I'm putting you in -A Using resources within the company, using resources without it because I felt strongly about it. Q Okay. A I felt that I -you know in my mind I felt that based on the policies and the way I functioned here at TVA ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 46 that it wasn't handled right, and I felt they should own up and do what's right. Q Are you still at the same level that you were at before as far as pay grade? A Well you mean when I was RAD Chem Manager? Q Right. A Well no, because when they combined the functions at that pay grade was PG myself, my position and Wilson McArthur's position was PG 11. Q Un-hum. A Okay, when they combined the functions and combined the manager position into one position they raised it one level to PG Senior. Q Okay. A Okay, and so -Q So in effect it really was a newly created position because it did add on functions from the previous A Well right, right it was. I mean you combined yes, you added functions together.

Major functions, major groups together, major responsibilities together you add them into one position.

Yeah, it was a new position based on the policy and the rules at the time that governed that. Q Right. A And so it was increased to PG Senior. Stepped up ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 "15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 47 from PG 11 to PG Senior. So throughout all this I told them -they said what would like to see. They said what would you like to get out of this. I said for one I want to be treated the same way as you treated Wilson McArthur.

If you selected him and made him PG Senior then I want a comparable position.

Q Okay. A That's for one. We talked about some other thing but that's -Q Did they give that to you? A Yes. Q Un-hum. A But it's a PG Senior Developmental

-they didn't have a position.

Obviously, they didn't have a created organizational block for that but they had -Phil said he had a Developmental

-Senior Manager Developmental position in the organization we could use for that so that's what was done. Q Anything else in that agreement?

A Well the fact that your developmental

-it was kind of a mini-developmental plan. We're going to send you to INPO. Then we'll come back. We're going to send you, create various assignments such that you get -for Development Management purposes.

SRO class is going to be included in that.

48 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 We're going to assign you a mentor so we won't again, this was all what was laid out at this you know action plan based on this previous suit and that sort of thing but they tried to mimic that. I could see what they were trying to do. Well we're going to assign you a mentor that will work with you, a Senior Manager level mentor. One of the VP's at the sites. We're going to really work with you because that's what you want to do. We're going to really work with you. We feel you know you've got potential as a manager, this, that, and the other so that's what was put on in words. Put down in words. Q Who was telling you this? Was it Mr. Reynolds?

A Yes. Q Un-hum, okay. All right, and so basically who was the settlement signed by? A Ike --, Oliver Kingsley.

Q And you're saying to me the other gentleman's name is Ike -A Ike Zerang. Q Can you spell that? A Oh, boy, I have a problem with that. We would have to probably get a -- because I can't -I couldn't give you a correct spelling of that. Q Serang? ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 S-15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 49 A Zerang. Q Zerang? A It's Z -yeah, Z-e-r-r-i-o-g-u-i.

We'll have to get that later. Q Okay, that's fine. A I've messed that up I'm pretty sure. Q Kindly like -- name. A Right. Q It has to be very slow and delivered.

A Right. Q Okay, I am going to get off of that topic concerning you and the reason obviously I'm not pursuing a separate investigation on that but what we look at is disparate treatment.

As far as -you know what I'm looking at is the position that Mr. Fiser was required to bid for they went down from three positions to two. They took away function.

Not added function but they still posted that position, but in the position that you were not allowed to bid on I'm comparing the actions to see if there was disparate treatment in the different situations.

A I understand.

Q So that's why I'm exploring your situation.

It's because they acted one way here but acted differently over here so you do have disparate treatment.

You know it's ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 50 pretty -whatever the explanation they have you know it's up to them. A Okay. Q Also in your deposition going to the screening panel that was formed for the interviews for the Corporate's Chemistry positions and the other positions I guess do you know who was selected for the Board? A This was for the Chemistry positions.

Right? Q Un-hum. A Yes. Q Okay, can you tell me -A Oh, let's see Charles Kent. Originally, it was let me back up and say one thing. Originally, it was supposed to be the RADCON Chemistry Managers -that's the three RADCON Chemistry Managers so Charles Kent -the Brown's Ferry RADCOM Manager -Q Cox and Mr. -A John -Q I'm trying to remember.

A Wait a minute now. Q Corey. A Corey, John Corey, yeah. Q Un-hum, C-o-r-e-y?

A Right, so John Corey, Charles Kent. But now Jack Cox didn't sit on the Board. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 51 1 Q Okay. 2 A He was at the time at Watts Bar RADCOM Manager, 3 and they picked an individual, an engineer here at 4 Corporate.

Let's see what was his name. Oh, gosh, I can't 5 think of his name right off hand. I know it's in the 6 deposition.

7 Q Was it Rodgers? 8 A Yes, yes, yes. 9 Q I think that's R-o-d-g-e-r-s maybe. 10 A Yeah, R-o-g-e-r-s, yeah. 11 Q Okay, when did you -in your deposition basically 12 to go back to that you indicated that Mr. McArthur told you 13 and Ben Easley he was going to be on the Board and that for 14 some reason or that he was paneling this Board, and that for 15 some reason he could not get Cox. 16 You indicated in the deposition that he, Mr. McArthur, 17 had mentioned this to you while you were talking to Easley. 18 Do you remember that conversation?

19 A Yes, in fact what happened was Wilson and my 20 office were next to each other and Wilson does it quite 21 often. He was there talking with Ben and he just -I just 22 walked by the office and he called me, hey, come here we 23 need to talk about something, this, that, and the other. 24 They were talking about I guess like setting up the 25 Board and everything.

He said well I can't -I'm not going ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 52 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 to be able to put -I can't get Jack Cox. I can't get him to be part of the Board and Ben and I looked at each other. I said well you know you really should get -you know he should be on the Board if you want to have fairness on this because see because the people -each individual you interview has got you know at least one ally in there because they support and that's not -you would expect that because that individual the RADCON Manager obviously would support his guy that is supporting him on -he's his proper contact. You would expect that. If he's doing a good job you're going to support your man you know. Not to say you don't think anything of -or you think less of the others but you're going to be supporting your guy you would naturally tend to support your guy. From a fairness standpoint we thought well to balance it you should have -if you're going to have one RADCON Manager from site you should have all three so everybody has got -so you won't get accused of what I know bias on the Board you know. It's not -it was slanted. The deck is stacked against me. You don't want any of that so you want to try to create a Board that's unbias. Everybody gets a fair opportunity so you want to make sure the perception is there as well you know. We both look, you need to get Jack Cox on ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 53 1 that Board because that's going to make it look unbalanced.

2 Q Okay, and what did he say? 3 A If I recall he said something he had to talk with 4 Tom McGrath about it. It was between him and Tom McGrath 5 you know so he had to talk to Tom McGrath about it. We said 6 -I told him that's my recommendation.

I said I'm not 7 involved but I said if you want to try to do this fairly and 8 not have a lot of flag I mean you need to do that. 9 Q Did anyone ever tell you that Mr. Cox was not 10 allowed or was asked to recuse himself from the Board 11 because he was in favor or support of Mr. Fiser? 12 A No, the only thing I heard at that time was that 13 -which was really puzzling to me was the fact that well 14 Jack Cox doesn't want to be on the Board. He can't sit on 15 it. He has got something else to do. 16 Q Un-hum. 17 A And that just was very peculiar to me because 18 Jack always he was -he made a point. On a regular basis he 19 would call me up you know -(phone rings) Do you need to get 20 the phone? 21 Q No, go ahead. 22 A Nothing I initiated.

He would call me up and say 23 hey, you know, Ron, Gary has been up here. His support is 24 on this problem. We want to let you know, provide you feed 25 back so you know he was always supportive.

He said you know ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 54 when we had this meeting -we had one meeting. He said Gary was the only guy that came up here and stayed with us and worked with us, this, that, and the other. He said you need to really make sure you consider that when you're doing his reviews and this, that, and the other. I said well that's great I do that. You know I welcome that so it seemed awfully odd that all up until this time that all the staffing were supporting him. Now when there was a need for him to come forward and you know make best selection, support his guy, whatever provide support not to say he's going to select him over the others but you know he would say well I can't do it, or I'm busy, or I don't want to do it, this, that, and the other. Q Do you know how long you know at what point that was prior to the interviews that you were told by Mr. McArthur -A It was like a couple of days before or whatever and I told John, I said listen, my recommendation is you should try to work it out and work out another date if you can make it happen with you. Work out when you can get them all there. Q And what was his -A Because that's too critical.

That's too important.

It's too sensitive.

When you deal with people that lies you just don't handle that in just a casual ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 55 I manner. I mean this is real life. You're dealing with 2 somebody's future, his family, and everybody else so you 3 don't want to just make them -you know you want to try to 4 do everything right. That's my opinion on it. 5 Q And what did Mr. McArthur say about that? 6 A Well he was telling me you know he said he had to 7 get with Tom McGrath and make a decision.

8 Q Okay. 9 A What they wanted to do. That's how it was left. 10 Q Okay. Did Mr. McArthur or anyone else ever tell 11 you that Fiser had been secretly tape recording other people 12 in TVA? Were you ever told that? 13 A He had mentioned that in conversation.

You know 14 he had mentioned that I guess during his last -when he was 15 going through the prior case. He had sat in, had discussed 16 it with some of the people I guess after he was terminated 17 or moved over to the support group that he was taping 18 people. You know I can't get -you know I -look, I can 19 only go and I told everybody that. I told when I first 20 hired here and I told the General Manager and I told Wilson 21 look, I tell everybody that. Look I can only go on this man 22 shows up to work. I can only go from here forward. I can't 23 get tied into what happened in the past, this, that, and the 24 other. 25 That's not fair to that individual.

We're going to ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 56 start fresh. We're going to move forward. Now I'm not -I can't -I wasn't here. I don't have any involvement whatever happened to his past. I'm going to treat him as if we're starting fresh and we go forward from here. I'm not going to hold anything against that I wasn't even around. It's just all talk. It's all hearsay you know and that's unfair to the individual.

Q Okay. A So I don't -he has mentioned that. He said well we're afraid to -look, I can't -let's deal with facts. If we're going to deal with facts if there's something factual you've got to say that he's doing now that's affecting his performance or whatever, and he's not performance based or there's something that's factual then we can talk about it. Q So you think he kindly indicated that he was afraid of discussing certain things around because of this past tape recording?

A He said stuff like that. Q Yeah. A You know Wilson has got -sometimes he jokes about it. To tell you the truth I didn't take it -I don't take -I didn't take it that seriously.

Q Okay. A I mean that could have happened.

What am I supposed to do about it. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 57 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ii 12 13 14 "15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q Yeah. A Am I not supposed to be his manager. What am I supposed to do about it. I'm supposed to write that up in his performance review that two years ago he taped. Ten years, five years ago he taped some individual's conversation that he had with you or something.

Q Okay, so you were -A Totally inappropriate.

Q To get to when you were the Manager there at Corporate Chemistry you had both Mr. Fiser and Harvey working for you? A Correct.

Q So that was from '94 through '96? A Correct.

Q Both of them worked for you during that time? A Correct.

Q Did you write the evaluations for both of them? A Correct.

Q And how -I guess Mr. Harvey was supporting Sequoyah.

Mr. Fiser was supporting Watts Bar? A Correct.

Q And I'm not even going into -- because it's a different type of work, support but how did you rate both of them? A Both of them I mean they didn't have -I mean ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 58 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 they had good -basically good evaluations.

I mean -I don't recall you know there was two years whether he got a 3.2 or 3.4. I don't recall the numbers you know the numerical ratings associated with their -- but I mean they didn't have -neither one of them never had unsatisfactory performance reviews.

Q Okay. A Now there were some you know -we've talked about it with all of them. There is always some things we could work on and this, that, and the other. If I was critical in one area of you and you didn't work up to expectations for some area or for some project or something I let them know that. We talked about it. I let them know that. Q Okay. A You know I didn't hold any balls back, this, that, and the other and so they had an opportunity to change, or if I had the wrong understanding or something and we weren't communicating so we tried to get on common ground so we both understood what the expectation was. Q Un-hum. A And so once we understood what the expectation was and then the expectation wasn't met then I provided that feed back. On conversely if the expectation was met or exceeded I provided that feed back so -Q Did you have performance problems with either one 59 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 "\-.-- 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 of them? A No, no performance problems with Gary. We did have some things we-had to work on with Mr. Harvey. Q And what was that? A It's just focus. Focus on getting things done. Becoming more task oriented.

Delivering a product.

Completing assignments.

You know with the group in general I told them I said one of the things, one of our main objectives is to we're responsible for is figuring how to solve problems and closure. I said that's what we've got to focus on. When I came here we didn't do -that wasn't even addressed.

Well we have a lot of initiatives done. We'll start with this and then fill them out. We'll start -that's why we couldn't get anything done. You know that's why we couldn't -we couldn't see improvement to me in my opinion at the Plants. You know we were in a reactionary modes that are pro-actionary modes, and yet we've got this problem.

Okay, let's start all these initiatives.

Write all this stuff up and write the papers up. We're going to do this, and this and we're going to write them and do an assessment and never followed through with it. Never get it done so you can't see the results.

You can't see any results that did improve so that was one thing it was the style the managers was approaching.

ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 6O 1 I'm not trying to bash Sam or anything like that but I think 2 he had the hardest time of everyone in the group of 3 accepting that you know. 4 When I came there they didn't have a manager. They 5 just kind of did his own thing so I think he had a hard time 6 and he had to adjust to my style and I had to try to adjust 7 to the way he likes things. We tried and we got -I think 8 we -we had some rough spots there for a while and you know 9 toward the end I think he started to come around. I mean 10 that's just part of nature's business.

You know -11 Q Did anyone ever tell you anything about Mr. 12 Harvey writing up some kind of report that actually was 13 saying that he had written this report but it actually 14 wasn't his report during a shut down or something like that? 15 A Let me -yeah, let me -yes, I mean that -I 16 recall someone mentioning that to me. I just you know what 17 am I supposed to do about it. I mean it -18 Q Okay, did you ever talk to Mr. Harvey about that? 19 A No, it was something that transpired before I was 20 here. 21 Q Oh, okay. 22 A Yes, this wasn't -23 Q That was prior to the '94/'96 time frame? 24 A Yeah, he may have just written it just when I got 25 there but it was prior to -when I was here we made sure ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 61 1 what we put together was authentic and was by whoever signed 2 that report. 3 Now they may have gotten -used other resources or 4 other inputs, this, that, and the other but I tried to make 5 sure what we put out was factual and what we you know -6 Q Your own work? 7 A Our own work. Now if it wasn't our own work we 8 would reference what was included.

That' what I tried to 9 impress upon the individuals to make sure that we did that 10 because we're held accountable for it. 11 Now he may have done that. I've heard stories you 12 know but -13 Q It didn't happen -14 A I tried to make sure it didn't happen during my 15 watch, okay. 16 Q Okay. 17 A While I was involved.

18 Q And I guess the only other thing as far as Mr. 19 Harvey's background would be whether he was ever involved in 20 counseling for harassment of any kind. Are you aware of 21 that? 22 A Yes. Well I'm not aware of him receiving any 23 counseling.

I'm aware there were a couple of issues we had 24 to deal with in that area with him. 25 Q Okay, and what were those issues? ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 62 A Well I think -let me see if I can figure out the best way to put this. Sam has always been very talkative and he doesn't -in my relation with him he doesn't always think through a lot of the things he says, and for some reason he has had several run ins with female employees.

The things he said, the way he has come across, and he's trying -they take it as being belittlement or you know I don't know what it is. I don't -because I chuckle it's not that I don't it as a serious matter because it is. Okay, and we treat it as a serious matter but for whatever reason he has had several run ins particularly with a couple with the sites Sequoyah and at Watts Bar. We had a couple staff people here as students, female students, and I've had to talk to him several times. Look, Sam you've got to think of what you're -you know you need to think through what you say to people, and you need to understand and be sensitive how you're treating people. You know female employees because they're in their group or you work with them that doesn't mean that because they're female they're subordinate to you. You know or you're supposed to be in charge of that. That's not what that -that's totally inappropriate and it shouldn't exist. Q When you were his manager how many complaints would you say you got against Mr. Harvey for matters such as that? ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 63 1 A Well probably three to four. 2 Q Did you ever get anything like that complaints 3 against Mr. Fiser? 4 A No. 5 Q Did you ever have any performance problems with 6 Mr. Fiser? 7 A No. 8 Q That you had to counsel him on? 9 A No. 10 Q I'm going to ask you a very subjective you know 11 question right now regarding if you were in the position to 12 be the one that had selected based on your two years of 13 working as their manager if you had based on their prior 14 backgrounds, their expertise, their performance, their 15 attitude, if you had to select that person that was going to 16 support Watts Bar in that position who would you have 17 selected?

18 A If the decision was mine? 19 Q Yes. 20 A Well I would have to select Gary. I mean if he's 21 Watts Bar -he's primary supporting Watts Bar and let me 22 back up and say this. Maybe this is inappropriate or you 23 can tell me if it's off base now -if I had to do it, if I 24 had influence on it, this, that, and the other what I would 25 have done okay, would have tried to make happen I would move ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 64 1 Sam out of Sequoyah and left those two positions, or that 2 and then post position and let the people fairly interview 3 for. 4 Either that or if it's too much controversy, you're 5 not making enough change in the performance to position 6 description just go on seniority.

7 Q Un-hum. 8 A Just say we're going to go on seniority.

Whoever 9 has got the most time that's what you're going to have to do 10 but I would have tried to handle the situation a little bit 11 different.

If it was my decision, if it was my call, or for 12 my nickel now I'm only one voice but that's -if I had the 13 flexibility

-if it was up to me and I had the flexibility 14 to do it I would have done that. 15 I would have seized that opportunity just because we 16 had environmental people. I had two people in environmental 17 I had to you know essentially they did interview for one -18 I mean one of them did but you know -so I looked around and 19 tried to help them. 20 We got one of them a position up in Knoxville.

We got 21 another one a position in another group so my whole 22 objective was let's look at other options and try to be 23 aggressive and actively seek out where we can keep everybody 24 employed.

25 If that's the wrong thing to do I'll take that you ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 know. Beat me up on that. Okay, admonish me for that but that was my whole feeling at the time. Q Now I mean you're taking care of your people is what it sounds like, a good manager.

A Well that would have been to me the right way to go and you could -you had a spot there you could have did this. Q But going back to the question as it was the way he did it -A You said for Watts Bar. You said if we was selecting them for Watts Bar -Q Or for that position and I realize now that -A Well the position -Q Was Watts Bar and Sequoyah.

A Right. Q Okay, for the position that was there that they were bidding on, the one that was posted, going back the same way based on you know their expertise, their backgrounds, their experiences

-A Un-hum. Q Your experience working with them, their performance underneath you, you know, which one would you have selected for that? A Well and that's strictly based on performance performance reviews and the contributions and you look at 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 S 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the total picture. I would have had to select Gary and it will be -and that selection would be based on an objective decision and one of the main reasons why he would get the edge is because Gary was very interchangeable with all the sites. He did work at all the sites, and while Sam had a good foot hold in Sequoyah and I'm not saying there's some things he didn't do well. I mean he had potential, okay, but he didn't sit as well with the other sites. Okay, he wasn't as interchangeable as Gary so I would have to look at from an objective standpoint I look at performance reviews and what they've done in the past and also look at it objectively how can the needs best be met. -- was interchangeable more you know interchangeable and Gary was interchangeable so you have to look at well when the dust settles where can we get the most bag for a buck and -- to say that but where can we get the most for what we had left. Q Un-hum. A And I told them that. I told Wilson that. I told Tom McGrath and I told John McJeskie.

I said if you had to cut down and leave one person I told them from the leave -- because he's the most -he's got the best -he's the most interchangeable.

He's sound chemistry and RADCON wise so if you have to cut the guys you want to leave the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 67 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ii 12 13 14 \"--- 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 person that can best support the organization.

Q Right. A That included myself. I told them I said if you leave one person that's the person and so it wasn't like I was -I looked at from a -I tried to look at it from an objective standpoint.

Who is going to best serve the need. Q When you indicated that to Mr. McArthur, Mr. McGrath, and whoever else you may have talked to about who you would have selected, or how you would have handled it did you tell them how you would have handled it? A Well this was at a different time. Not during this time. Q Oh -A I just said I mentioned that before. I said we get in a situation and this wasn't during the time. I said we get in a situation where we get a mandate okay, we're only going to have one chemistry guy left here, one RADCON guy left here you know I just told them -I said if we ever get in that situation my recommendation is this is the person that you should have based on -and the reason why I did that here is what the contribution is -here is what this contribution this person has made. A lot of times you get two, three levels up they don't get that and so I tried to communicate that up so people would know so we don't make the wrong decision.

If I'm ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 68 gone, Wilson, everybody else is gone who is the best person to keep there. Q Right. A To meet the need. You know no need in keeping a man a -- manager he can't support the sites. He doesn't go to the sites. He can't provide what they need. Q Un-hum. A So it was an effort to try to feed that up. A lot of times at performance reviews they may not review the performance.

They don't know what type of performance you know and I spent a lot of time -well a considerable amount of that time I try to communicate that. I said look, here is what these guys are doing. Here is the type of performance we get. Call the sites. If you don't believe me, don't take my word. Please don't take my word. Call the sites. Q Did you ever get the feeling that Mr. McGrath just didn't like Fiser? A Well that's the sense I had. Now I'm not saying that's the correct sense, this, that, and the other but that's the sense I had. Q Okay. A That he didn't really have a liking toward Gary but -Q And what about Mr. McArthur how do you think he 69 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 felt about Mr. Fiser? What was your sense? A (Chuckles)

Q You said he was in counseling for earlier -A I didn't know what the sense was. Well Wilson I guess from me it appeared to me that he could along with Gary. He liked Gary as a person. Okay, but I mean I'm being honest with you. I didn't know where Wilson was coming from. I mean you know one minute he says one minute. One the next minute he says he didn't. This guy is taking me. I can't trust him. This guy did that. Q Right. A One minute he said well I can't trust him, and this, that, and the other, and then the other minute he said well you know I really like Gary. Gary needs a shot. You know he's coming back and he really got -you know he really was done wrong, but then on the other hand well yeah, I can't really trust him and this, that, and the other. I really think he's -I just try to base it on facts. My position of facts and performance.

Let's be performance based. Q You mentioned something and I've heard this before about the comment about him having been done wrong. Are you talking about that 1993 situation, or -A Right, when we was coming back I didn't know you know I was -first I was directed by Wilson let's start ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 70 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 looking around because we need to get a person for that position.

Then one day well don't do anything with that position because we've got an employee coming back who is going to fill that position.

Then he proceeded to tell me about Gary Fiser and how Gary was done wrong, and this, that, and the other. He's a real good guy and this -you know everybody told me before he got here hey, this is a real good guy. He just got mis you know just was done wrong. That's all I got. I didn't get anything negative about Gary. Q Okay. A You know and you know I was told well but you know just watch him and make sure to see how things go and this, that, and the other. I am well I am. Just treat him like everybody else. Let's start and let's go to work. Q Okay. A And you know we don't -we never talked about what happened in the past. Never once did I talk to him about what happened.

When he started working I never talked to him once about what happened in the past, this, that, and the other. Hi, I'm Ron Grover and here is what we're trying to -you know we talked a while. Here is what we're trying to do. Just like that and we moved forward.

Q Okay, good and that's what it appears to just -A Yeah, Wilson was a very -- opponent.

Oh, man, ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 71 this guy is a good guy. He was done wrong. He really needs -he really deserves a good shot, this, that, and the other you know. Okay, I'll work with him. Who you know -that's all the feed back I got. Some of his peers that worked with him they said the same thing. Plants said the same thing so okay, well fine let's get him here. Let's see how it works out you know. Q Did you talk to Gary after the screening panel for the 1996 posting of the position?

Did he ever talk to you -come talk to you about his non-selection for that position?

A You mean after the interviews?

Q Un-hum. A Were held and he wasn't selected?

Q Un-hum. A Yeah, we talked. I tried to suggest to him -you just want to know what we talked about? Q Well basically what was his feeling at the time? A Well I mean he was disappointed.

He was disappointed in the process. He felt the process wasn't totally fair and I think the one thing he -one thing that really stuck out that he was really disappointed about was the fact that Jack Cox wasn't on the selection Board. You know after all he did, all the support he provided ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 72 1 and the Plant that he really supported wasn't represented on 2 the Board. You know they couldn't get Jack Cox. They 3 couldn't get anybody.

4 They couldn't get one -they didn't get one 5 representative from the Plant to set the Board and I think 6 that really is what stuck with him and that he was really 7 the most disappointed in. 8 Q Did you ever talk to Cox about that afterwards 9 yourself?

10 A No. 11 Q Did you talk to McArthur any further about Gary's 12 non-selection or anything else? 13 A No, didn't -I really intentionally just stayed 14 out of the process. He asked me to work with the position 15 description and I coordinated that. I got with Sam and I 16 tried to get everybody's

-Sam was --. Went out got his 17 input, tried to get -I tried to help facilitate.

18 I always tried to help facilitate the process to go 19 through but I did not try to interfere or stop and throw a 20 wrench in anything.

If he asked me my advice -he come to 21 me all the time. He asked my advice. I gave it to him. I 22 said that's my advice you know. You asked my opinion that's 23 what my opinion is but I did not try to impede or interfere 24 in any way with the process.

25 Q All right, do you have any questions that you ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 -- 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 73 want to ask me, or is there anything else that you think I need to know about? A No, I think -you know I've expressed that to you that I just -I think throughout the whole process we were just looking for fairness.

Q Un-hum. A In following the policy. Q Do you have any suggestions on who else I might speak to that had -might have knowledge of certain decisions that were made you know by upper management concerning the posting of the position, or any desire on somebody's part not to have Gary in that position?

A I don't know who you've spoken with or who you have a list of people to speak to so far. Q Well who would you suggest that? A Well you've talked with HR representatives, Ben Easley, Wilson McArthur, any -you know I imagine you've talked to everybody involved.

I mean you -- you spoke with him or Sam. You know just get everybody that's kind of directly involved I guess in some way or another indirectly to get their -you know you talked with the Environmental people that were involved that didn't get selected.

Talk to them. Deidre Nida you know she's over the lab now. You know I'm just throwing that -putting out those names because ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD. Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034 74 they were in the group and he went through all this together so they may know something, or may offer some -Trish Lander she's over our building over here in an environmental group. You know those are the only people that I know because they were mainly you know there when this all transpired so they would have more -if I forgot something or left something out maybe they can fill in the blanks. Q Okay, anything else at all? A No. MS. BENSON: Well I appreciate all your time today. I didn't really expect it would take quite as long as we did but you've been very helpful.

MR. GROVER: Okay. MS. BENSON: Very forthright.

Like I said I kindly detected that when I read the other interviews too and if you need anything at all I'm going to give you a card. You can give me a call. MR. GROVER: Sure. MS. BENSON: Okay. MR. GROVER: I appreciate it. MS. BENSON: And thank you for your help today. MR. GROVER: Okay. MS. BENSON: The time now is approximately 12:50. (Whereupon, at 12:50 p.m., the interview was concluded.)

r-7 PROOFREADER'S CERTIFICATE In the Matter of: INTERVIEW OF RONALD 0. GROVER Witness: RONALD 0. GROVER File Number: Date: DECEMBER 18, 1998 Location:

CHATTANOOGA, TENNESSEE This is to certify that I, Bob Addington.

do hereby swear and affirm that the attached proceedings before the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission were held according to the record and that this is the original, complete, true and accurate transcript that has been compared to the reporting or recording accomplished at the hearing.

Date: DECEMBER 22, 1998 Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd