ML030900690
| ML030900690 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Browns Ferry, Watts Bar, Sequoyah  |
| Issue date: | 06/17/2002 |
| From: | Ravi Grover Tennessee Valley Authority |
| To: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| Byrdsong A T | |
| References | |
| +adjud/ruledam200506, -RFPFR, 50-259-CIVP, 50-260-CIVP, 50-296-CIVP, 50-327-CIVP, 50-328-CIVP, 50-390-CIVP, ASLBP 01-791-01-CIVP, RAS 6161, TVA-Staff-53 | |
| Download: ML030900690 (76) | |
Text
Pr~s (04(0 5_6 -3GCIV~e-, Cu.
DOCKETED I I~ U I'IED UNI'TED STATES OF AMERICA 'j"'"X I I:
2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMAY1M~ I AN-II: 43 3
E : ADJUDICATIONiS STAFF 4 n the Matter o:
5 NTERVIEW OF 6 ONALD 0. GROVER 7 CLOSED) 8 ------------- x 9
10 11 Tennessee Valley Authority 12 Lookout Place Building 13 12th & Chestnut Street 14 Chattanooga, TN 1\15 16 Friday, December 18, 1998 17 18 The above-entitled matter came on for interview, 19 pursuant to notice.
20 21 BEFORE:
22 DIANE BENSON, Special Agent 23 24 25 -
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 101.4 Washington, D.C. 20036 EXHIBIT- I
--FeaWm (202) 842-0034 IkGE(S
RREGULATORY COMMaN OmeAf -D 39 Oft ial Exh. No. 5it T7 f__________ DENTIFIED Arcant IECEIVED In"not __ --jECTED xer NITHDRAWN _ --
DATE f/LL ci_ Witness Ctert A/
, I.
, I / .
'C,
2 1 CO0N TE N TS 2 WITNESS EXAMINATION 3 RONALD 0. GROVER 4 BY MS. BENSON 4 5
6 E X HI BIT S 7 NUMBER IDENTIFIED 8 (NONE.)
9 10 1I 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
.ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
3 I P R O C E E D I N G S K) 2 (11:06 a.m.)
3 MS. BENSON: For the record today's date is 4 December 18, 1998.
5 The time now is 11:07.
6 I'm Special Agent Diana S. Benson of the Nuclear 7 Regulatory Commission Office of Investigations, Atlanta, 8 Georgia and I'll be conducting this interview.
9 During this proceeding which is being recorded for 10 transcription NRC Office of Investigations will conduct an 11 interview of Mr. Ronald 0. Grover. The spelling of Mr.
12 Grover's last name is G-r-o-v-e-r. This interview pertains 13 to 01 Investigation No. 2-1998-013. The location of this 14 interview is TVA Lookout Place Building, Chattanooga, 15 Tennessee.
16 Whereupon, 17 RONALD OTIS GROVER 18 the Interviewee, was called for examination and, having been 19 first duly sworn was examined and testified as follows.
20 MS. BENSON: Mr. Easley, I ask - I'm sorry - Mr.
21 Grover, I asked you to read over Section 1001 of Title 18 of 22 the U.S. Code. Did you read over that?
23 MR. GROVER: Yes.
24 MS. BENSON: And do you understand that?
25 MR. GROVER: Yes.
ANN RILEY &-ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
4 1 1 MS. BENSON: Okay, and I also presented to you my i'd 2 credentials earlier identifying who I am. Do you recall 3 that I did present those to you?
4 MR. GROVER: Yes.
5 MS. BENSON: Okay.
6 EXAMINATION 7 BY MS. BENSON:
8 Q Mr. Grover, can you please state for the record 9 your full name including your middle name?
10 A Ronald Otis Grover.
11 Q Can you spell your middle name, please?
12 A O-t-i-s.
13 Q And your date of birth?
14 A K> 15 Q And your social security number?
16 A 17 Q And prior to the interview I indicated that we 18 were going to discussing the 1996 Department of Labor 19 complaint filed by Mr. Gary Fiser concerning alleged 20 discrimination by TVA against him. This concerned the 21 reorganization that was going on the Nuclear organization.
22 In particular the Corporate Chemistry Division here in 23 Chattanooga in which one of the positions, the Chemistry 24 position, was eliminated and the other two were posted.
25 Mr. Fiser was subsequently not selected for that ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
5 1 position. His initial complaint was that he felt that the 2 position shouldn't be you know posted but also that he was 3 not selected for that position. Okay.
4 Can you please provide me with the history of your 5 employment with TVA including the positions you've held and 6 the responsibilities you had in those positions?
7 A Okay. I was hired in February 28th of 1994 as the 8 Corporate Chemistry Manager for the Nuclear Group supporting 9 the nuclear sites that TVA currently owns and operates.
10 That included at the time the operating units. Well the 11 active sites were Watts Bar, Browns Ferry, and Sequoyah.
12 I had responsibility for at the time there were 13 four positions in - let me correct that. There were - well 14 there were three positions reporting to my particular i15 position. Two of the positions were currently filled and 16 there was a vacant position which was at the same level PGA 17 as the other two positions that were currently filled.
18 Shortly thereafter once I was here I guess about a 19 month, a month and a half it was explained to me that Mr.
20 Fiser at the time he wasn't actively in the organization 21 would be coming to our - back to our organization and 22 filling that position.
23 Q And that was in regards to his settlement of his 24 1993 DOL complaint?
25 A Correct, as I understand. I wasn't involved in ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
6 1 that at all because I wasn't here at the time when that 2 transpired, so when Mr. Fiser came on board he filled that 3 position and we basically had a complete group at that time 4 based on the number of positions in the organization. About 5 July of that same year we went through another 6 reorganization.
7 Q In '94?
8 A In 1994.
9 Q Okay.
10 A And the objective there that affected us 11 immediately was to combine the Chemistry Organization and 12 the Environmental Protection Organization. Environmental 13 Protection Organization had five positions as I-recall so 14 went through a process again.
15 I guess the big picture objective was we had to 16 reduce staffing, budget considerations, that sort of thing 17 so combining functions is generally one way you know you 18 look at to accomplish that end. At the time we were - was 19 given direction to look at combining the two organizations.
20 They had a manager that was in place of that group 21 so we had to combine the two functions into one group, and 22 the total number that was decided upon was five individuals 23 including the manager.
24 So you took three total people from Chemistry and 25 I believe it was five people from Environmental and combined ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
7 I them into one group with one manager. At the time based on 2 the policy we basically had to rewrite the job descriptions 3 and combine them into one job description. Vacated the 4 positions including my position.
5 All these positions were vacated and everyone had 6 to interview for the vacant positions including the 7 managers. Okay, so we went through that --
8 Q What position did you end up with as a result of 9 that reorganization?
10 A I was selected for the manager's position which 11 was the manager of Chemistry - Corporate Chemistry and 12 Environmental Protection.
13 Q Were there any other managers at the time?
14 A That applied for the position?
<\2 15 Q No, there was just one manager position?
16 A One manager position but you had two managers you 17 had to combined into one position. Well other things 18 transpired as well at the same time because at the time I 19 reported directly to Wilson McArthur who was manager of 20 Technical Support which had other sub-groups reporting to 21 him.
22 Well that was split out. That group was split up, 23 and so we ended up in our immediate realm of RADCON 24 Organization having one manager and Chemistry and 25 Environmental having one manager.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
8 1 Q Okay.
KU 2 A And those positions were made to set up at the 3 same level.
4 Q Okay, so Mr. McArthur held the RADCON?
5 A Right.
6 Q And you were the RADCHEM?
7 A Chem Environmental. I was Chem Environmental.
8 Wilson McArthur was RADCON.
9 Q Okay, and were those equal positions?
10 A Yes, they were made equal positions.
11 Q Okay.
12 A And the other groups that he had were split out.
13 He had emergency prepardness and fire protection so those 14 were split out and put under different organizations.
15 Q And that was in July of '94 that reorganization?
16 A Yes, we initiated July of '94 and I think it was 17 finalized in August or - I can't remember. It was between 18 August and September is when it was all done. It all took 19 place.
20 Q Did you have to apply for that position?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Do you know whether Mr. McArthur had to apply for 23 his position?
24 A Yes, everything was - all positions were vacated.
25 Everyone had to reapply and other applicants -- for those ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
9 a positions.
2 Q Okay, so was there a new job description that was 3 written for you as a result of that --
4 A Yes.
5 Q And was there a new job description that was 6 written for Mr. McArthur?
7 A As I recall, yes.
8 Q Okay.
9 A Because you changed - there was a major change in 10 the function and responsibilities. You know there were new 11 job descriptions written for all the positions reporting 12 too.
13 Q But to the best of your recollection Mr. McArthur 14 did have to bid for that position?
15 A As far as I know he did now because he was in a 16 different capacity.
17 Q Did you ever see the job description that was 18 written or posted as a vacant position that Mr. McArthur 19 subsequently filled? Was that advertised throughout the 20 Agency?
21 A I believe it was. I can't you know say for sure 22 but it would seem if I recall correctly it was advertised.
23 Q Okay.
24 A As well as --
25 Q Who was handling that reorganization as far as ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
10 1 from the Human Resources perspective?
2 A Ben Easley was the main contact and he worked 3 closely with the General Manager at the time which was John 4 Majeskie and they worked pretty close together to make sure 5 we were following what the proper procedure was and so 6 forth.
7 Q Okay. I guess what I was asking you know you saw 8 your own vacancy announcement and applied for that position.
9 Were you interviewed for that?
10 A Yes.
11 Q And who interviewed you?
12 A John Majeskie.
13 Q And were there any other candidates that had 14 applied for your position?
15 A Yes, there were at least two to three. I know 16 there were at least two to three others.
17 Q And what about the position that Mr. McArthur was 18 bidding for do you know whether anybody else applied for 19 that?
20 A I don't know for sure. I'm pretty sure he had the 21 interview but I don't know whether there were others that 22 applied. I'm sure that HR would have that information.
23 They should.
24 Q Okay. So anyway you were selected for the new 25 position as the RADCHEM Environmental --
AMN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
1l 1 A Chem Environmental, right.
2 Q Chem Environmental Manger and that was like August 3 time frame of 1994?
4 A Yes, July to September. That window there.
5 Q And Mr. Fiser was also - bid for and was selected 6 for one of the positions. Did he have to interview for his 7 position also?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And basically in those Chemistry positions the 10 functions of the Environmental functions were just combined 11 and I note you talked in depth in your deposition about you 12 know the percentage that was being done.
13 A Right.
14 Q And you know basically my interview with Mr.
15 Easley he indicated that he was the one that had done the 16 comparison of the position and that he felt that that job 17 should have been posted because there was a change in the 18 job description.
19 Do you recall anything different about you know 20 the position that Mr. Easley took at that time?
21 A No. I mean there was consistent - I mean it was 22 consistent with you know as I understand it the HR policy 23 that was established. If you - they used an arbitrary 24 percentage like if the job function changes by more than I 25 think it was fifteen percent - I think it's fifteen percent ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
12 1 then you're required to rewrite it and post it.
2 Basically, it was explained to us it two 3 approaches. If you don't change a job you're going into a 4 staff reduction if you don't change your jobs. Then you 5 basically go on seniority. You know how long you've been 6 here verses the other people.
7 Okay, other than that so it's either that avenue 8 or if there is a significant change in your job you rewrite 9 the job position description and vacate all the positions 10 and everyone vying for them on equal basis.
11 Q Okay.
12 A So this particular situation fit you know the 13 second avenue which was you had to make - you're combing two 14 major functions into one so it's a significant change that 15 that was you know the course that was taken.
16 Q I guess in your past interviews you had indicated 17 that you didn't really have any long discussions with Mr.
18 Fiser about his being placed into that one Chemistry 19 position right after you first came on with the organization 20 and that you know you just felt that that was separate.
21 You wanted to develop your own opinion of him and 22 it appears that basically when he worked with you what was 23 your evaluation of his abilities?
24 A Overall I felt he was a very good engineer, 25 support engineer, for the sites. When he returned to TVA I ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
13 I had just met him. I never - I didn't know him before hand.
2 He didn't come back with you know a chip on his shoulder or 3 he was upset with somebody.
4 He just came back and went to work, rolled up his 5 sleeves and got in with the rest of us and we established 6 some goals and objectives, what we wanted to do at the 7 sites, and even his major focus was Watts Bar. We were 8 really in a situation where they had a lot of issues they 9 needed to get resolved to get it on track for start up.
10 He came in and was very instrumental in the 11 Chemistry and Environmental areas of helping get Watts Bar 12 started up. I think if you talk with them they would echo 13 the same sentiments but a good individual as far as 14 attitude, a lot of Plant experience. You know from his you 15 understood he was at Sequoyah --. Sequoyah's as the 16 Chemistry Manager but his main - I would say his strong suit 17 was his Plant experience on site. More of a hands on type 18 work. Interacted very well with the people. No problems 19 with him getting along or not being able to work with this 20 individual, that sort of thing. They all would continually 21 call me and tell me you know how good of a job he is doing.
22 He's here. He's supporting us. He stays and he works long 23 hours2.662037e-4 days <br />0.00639 hours <br />3.80291e-5 weeks <br />8.7515e-6 months <br />. What we need he is there to provide that for us.
24 You know we're a Corporate but we kind of had a 25 different role but we were more support oriented. You know ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
14 1 you had Corporate function. You've got - part of what you 2 have to do is over site and part of what you have to do is 3 support.
4 We were more of support oriented probably 70/30 5 split with 70 percent being more support and try to work out 6 a good mix you know balance with the sites, but very good.
7 Always focused on how to solve the problem instead of 8 creating a problem.
9 Q Un-hum.
10 A So he worked out you know very well while we were 11 here together.
12 Q Okay. All right, I kindly jumped ahead actually 13 of myself. I know what we were looking at was you know your 14 positions going back really to the beginning.
15 A Un-hum.
16 Q And in 1994 as a result of that one organization 17 you posted for them or selected for the subsequent manager 18 position there and how long - can you tell me what your 19 procession was after that?
20 A Right, that stayed in tact until - basically that 21 stayed in tact until 1996 when we had the second - during my 22 tenure the second major reorganization that took place 23 starting in I believe it was about April of 1996 - March or 24 April of 1996 is when it started to take place.
25 Q Okay, and what positions did you hold as a result ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
15 I 1 of that - I mean afterwards?
2 A Well in that reorganization the decision was made 3 to combine again more staff reduction, how we're going to 4 combine RADCON, Chemistry/Environmental into one 5 organization.
6 Reduced the head count and the number of people in 7 the organization from current levels down to essentially 8 four reports to a single manager, so my position and Wilson 9 McArthur's position was combined into one position. You had 10 four reports reporting to that manager.
11 Essentially we're going to delete all of the 12 Environmental support functions. You were going to -
13 basically what they did they just took one RADCON position 14 and added some Environmental responsibilities to that one 15 RADCON position.
16 Q Okay, and what did you end up with after that?
17 A Well the decision was made by the General Manager 18 at the time to select --
19 Q And who was the General Manager?
20 A Tom McGrath.
21 Q And can you spell Mr. McGrath's last name, please?
22 A Oh, let's see I think it's M-c-G-r-a-t-h.
23 Q Okay, go ahead.
24 A The decision - he made the decision to select 25 Wilson McArthur for that Manager's position. You know ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
16 1 that's what he decided to do. I did express to him all AXj 2 3
through the reorganization I was interested in interviewing for the position, but it was between him and HR. He made I
4 the decision to select Wilson McArthur.
5 Q And I'm going to examine that a little bit more 6 closely but we'll come back to that.
7 A Okay.
8 Q I do have some specific questions to ask you about 9 that, but anyway so Wilson McArthur was selected for this 10 new position with RADCON, Chemistry & Environmental and what 11 did you get? What were you selected for?
12 A Nothing. No position.
13 Q What happened to you at that point?
14 A Well what happened I looked at - started looking Kis 15 you know at some other possible options. I continued to 16 work along with Wilson and with the organization you know to 17 help out as much as I could, plus I was still in support of 18 the Plants in the Chemistry organization.
19 I initiated a request to INPO, Institute of 20 Nuclear Power Operations, to go there for tour as a Company 21 representative because we have like the equivalent of two 22 and a half slots, or basically three slots there with INPO 23 that we companies - I'm sure you're familiar with it -
24 rotate company employees service so I initiated that 25 request. Efforts were made to move along for me to --
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
17 I Q Who did you initiate that request to?
2 A Well I initiated the request to Tom McGrath.
3 Q Okay.
4 A I mean that was the procedure was to write a 5 letter to him. I don't remember whether it went above - I 6 know it went above him but I mean I can't - I don't recall 7 the initial but I think I wrote it to him or I wrote it to 8 Ike - or Tom McGrath. I can't remember exactly what - I 9 probably have a copy of it but I don't remember exactly who 10 it was addressed to.
11 Q Okay, so you filled the TVA slot at INPO from what 12 time - what time period are we talking about?
13 A Well I finally ended up starting there September 14 30th of 1996, and I ended that tour December 31st of 1997.
15 Q And where did you go after that?
16 A After I came back?
17 Q After you went to INPO - yeah, once you returned 18 from INPO?
19 A Oh, returned. Well it's - I'm sort of in 20 transition. I don't know how to categorize that but we're -
21 we're trying to work out where do we go from here. Before I 22 went I worked with the organization. Worked with HR and I 23 was put in a developmental status and had -- developmental 24 status with the objective of getting experience in INPO, 25 coming back, laying out a career path, and proceeding from ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
18 1 there.
2 Okay, and that included going to SRO certification 3 class and then work. You know going from there but we would 4 sit down - being assigned a mentor - Vice President mentor, 5 Vice President level mentor, but for some reason or other it 6 didn't all transpire like it was initially laid out.
7 I've been - you know I'm just being honest with 8 you I've been - I've been very patient with the organization 9 and we're trying to work with HR to work this out.
10 I've done a couple of special projects. That's 11 the work down at Brown's Ferry but what I did was I 12 initiated several options, career options, and put them on a 13 table. I think you know they have them and we're - you know 14 I don't want to get off on a tangent but --
15 Q No, no.
16 A But we're trying to work that out.
17 Q Yeah.
18 A I mean that's to be --
19 Q Who in Human Resources are you working with on 20 that?
21 A Ed Boyles. He's the point of contact and 22 organizationally I report to Jack Bailey. I'm on his staff 23 reporting to him.
24 Q Jack Bailey?
25 A Jack Bailey, who is the VP of - Vice President of ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
19 2 Engineering.
2 Q Okay. That brings us up to today and it really 3 kind of right now sounds like since you've been back from 4 INPO that you might be given work in projects and so forth 5 but right now you don't really have a job is what it amounts 6 to?
7 A Correct.
8 Q Okay, and prior to coming to TVA what were you
.9 doing?
10 A I was the Corporate Chemistry Manager at the New 11 York Power Authority, and I was there for eleven years.
12 Prior to that I worked for the DuPont Company at a 13 production plant in Seaford, Delaware for about two and a 14 half years, and prior to that was in the Navy for five K>
15 years.
16 Q What did you do in the Navy?
17 A In the Navy I was a nuclear engineer.
18 Q Okay.
19 A So I qualified as a Certified Engineer in the Navy 20 of the Nuclear Power Program. I served aboard the aircraft 21 carrier USS Enterprise, and that's pretty much the stint of 22 it.
23 Q I think they interviewed the CO the other day on 24 the Enterprise if I'm not mistaken.
25 A Oh, is that right during this --
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
20 I Q Yeah, on CNN during this --
2 A Yeah, I didn't see that.
3 Q Okay, so basically you had eleven years with New 4 York Power or Electric as Corporate Chemistry Manager and so 5 you did have a pretty good Chemistry background prior to 6 coming to TVA?
7 A Correct, and most of my operation background is 8 with the Navy.
9 Q Un-hum.
10 A I did work in operations and did Chemistry RADCON, 11 Environmental with the Navy. I was the Officer directly 12 responsible for that for you know the whole program.
13 In addition, it qualifies in the operations to -
14 it's equivalent to the SRO so basically you had to qualify -
15 well you had to qualify - I'm trying to make it equivalent 16 to you know civilian RO but the additional qualification was 17 basically the SRO qualifications.
18 Q Just for the record I don't know if he mentioned 19 to you what the acronym SRO stands for, did he?
20 A Senior Reactor Operator.
21 Q And RO would be Reactor Operator?
22 A Right.
23 Q I'm going to go back now that we've established 24 you know your background. During the time period of 1996 25 according to what I've seen so far or heard or read --
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
21 1 A Un-hum.
I_ 2 Q I guess when they posted the position, the 3 Chemistry positions, there one of them that Mr. Fiser had 4 been holding at some point and time you were over at 5 Sequoyah from what I read in your deposition and you were 6 approached by Charles Kent and Gordon Rich.
7 In your deposition you indicated that it says 8 Howard in your deposition but I don't know if that's Gordon 9 Rich or Charles Kent - indicated that they wanted to 10 transfer Sam Harvey's and Harvey is H-a-r-v-e-y position to 11 Sequoyah because they had a vacancy when someone had left 12 the year before. Do you recall this?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Okay, do you remember who specifically talked to 15 you about transferring Mr. Harvey out there?
16 A Well both Charles and Gordon.
17 Q Okay.
18 A I was out there we were meeting or it was some - I 19 can't remember what I was out there for something related to 20 - work related. I didn't go specifically for that and then 21 of course all this - when all this started to transpire you 22 know the guys told me and you know my objective was anytime 23 you go through organization staff reduction my objective is 24 I like to see everybody have a job after it's over whether 25 it's in our organization or somewhere.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
22 1 One of the things I try to do is work aggressively
~'J 2 to see whether we can get - if there is any employment 3 opportunities that it works out for people, that's what they 4 want I try to do all I can to promote that and make that 5 happen.
6 I say that because I told the whole staff look, 7 we'll talk to you at the respective sites. Tell them what's 8 going on. Also, tell them to somehow feed back response, 9 feedback any response you know if you're doing a good job 10 and they feel you're doing a job you need to feed that back 11 to the organization because that's what counts.
12 If there is any other opportunities I'll be more 13 than happy to support you in that, so anyway we were out 14 there for some work and they approached.me both Charles and 15 Gordon about the possibility of transferring Sam.
16 Sequoyah was his Plant and he supported you know 17 the most. The way we were lined up where each individual 18 had one site that they primarily - they were the primary 19 contact. Not saying they didn't work in other areas which 20 we did. We crossed over and that sort of thing as we needed 21 to but they approached me and said that we'd like very much 22 to try to move his position out to Sequoyah.
23 Either transfer him into the vacant position or 24 move his current position from Corporate and have him 25 transfer over. I said you know I told them I said you know ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
23 I it was constructive. It was positive and I said well that's 2 - I wouldn't have any problems with that. I would support 3 that.
4 I said I want to go to Sam first and talk to him.
5 If that's what he wants to do, fine because there is nothing 6 - I don't want anyone to feel like we're trying to force 7 someone out of the organization, this thing and the other.
8 I went to Sam and I talked to Sam and I said look, 9 this is your call. If you want me to try to help make this 10 happen if I can I will. If you don't, if you want to stay 11 in Corporate it's up to you. You know it's your decision.
12 See we work very closely. I mean I work very closely with 13 the guys of course.
14 It wasn't like I felt uncomfortable. They felt 15 uncomfortable talking to me about it you know so it wasn't 16 like it was confidential or this, that, and the other in 17 that respect.
18 Q Okay.
19 A We had discussion and I talked with Sam, and Sam 20 said yes, I'd be interested in doing that since it looks 21 like we're going to be losing at least one Chemistry 22 position potentially so I said fine.
23 I went and talked to Ben because they wanted to 24 try to move this thing on and Charles asked me to go talk to 25 - I got the message through Wilson that Charles wanted to go ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
24 1 ahead and initiate this so I went and talked to Ben to find 2 out what the process was you know.
3 Q Just to interrupt you right there --
4 A Yes.
5 Q When you mentioned Wilson that's Wilson McArthur?
6 A I'm sorry. Wilson McArthur and Ben Easley.
7 Q At that point was Mr. McArthur in agreement with 8 this?
9 A Well he was more relaying - you know he had 10 stopped me and said that at the time well they're waiting.
11 Has anything been done to transfer Sam out there you know 12 because Charles asked me about it you know. They talked to 13 him about it and I said well, no I was thinking since it was 14 their position they would you know - see if they had a 15 position they wanted to bring me they would send out a 16 request letter down to our organization requesting that that 17 be considered.
18 Now if we're transferring our position out to them 19 then you know so based on how you're doing it, based on who 20 initiated - it would depend on who initiated it. Anyway, I 21 said well let me go and talk to HR and find out what the 22 option, what is the process.
23 Ben said back to me that I needed to talk with Tom 24 McGrath about it and I started with him because I didn't 25 know if he was aware of it or if they had mentioned it to ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
25 1 him, or just what so that's when I went in and talked with 2 Tom about it to try to get it initiated if that's what they 3 wanted to do.
4 I certainly - it sounded like a good option to me 5 and I didn't have any problem with it. That's what the site 6 expressed they wanted and that's what Sam expressed that 7 they wanted so I wanted to try to do what I could to support 8 that.
9 Q Okay, and basically in your deposition you 10 indicated that Mr. McGrath's response was not in support of 11 either filling that vacancy or the transfer of Harvey down 12 there?
13 A That's correct. He expressed he wasn't - hadn't 14 heard anything about it, wasn't aware of it. Then I went 15 back and I tried to fill him in on what had happened and 16 that they had expressed interest. They asked me to initiate 17 - to get the ball rolling if you will.
18 You know he was pretty adamant. He wanted to keep 19 Sam here at the Corporate and he really looked upon him as 20 the PWR guy and wanted to keep that expertise here. I 21 didn't you know we didn't - it wasn't a confrontational 22 exchange or anything. I said well that's - if that's your 23 decision that's fine. If you want to keep him down here 24 because he knew we had two positions there.
25 You know I fed that back to the sites and said ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
26I 1 well that's what I was told you know.
2 Q Was there ever any suggestion by anyone that maybe 3 Mr. Fiser could go down there in that position?
4 A No.
5 Q Okay.
6 A And I wouldn't - I didn't - I wouldn't expect that 7 just based on my experience because -- line each site would 8 want the guy that they had been working with to establish a 9 relationship.
10 Q Right.
11 A Gary did work it. He did good work at Sequoyah.
12 We weren't in -- contact but he did good work at Sequoyah.
13 He did various things. We had - they first gave me Sequoyah 14 it had a lot of problems you know. The Chemistry Program 15 was kindly -- and you get a lot of tension. We didn't have 16 a good - we just had a new -- evaluation and had some 17 significant things come up.
18 We tried to pool a lot of - you know we pooled our 19 resources and our objective was to get it turned around you 20 know so we worked closely with Gordon Rich and his staff out 21 there. We would do that. We would pool our resources and 22 Gary added a good piece to that you know that say Sam didn't 23 have. We packaged it you know and --
24 Q Okay.
25 A And -- the other individual he did some things ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
27 I there so --
2 Q Prior to the posting of the Corporate Chemistry 3 positions that Harvey and Fiser bid on and I'm talking about 4 the PWR.
5 A Right.
6 Q The Pressure Water React - that's --
7 A Yes, Pressurized Water React.
8 Q Position not the other one the boiling water one 9 but the pressurized one. Did Mr. Harvey work down at 10 Sequoyah on a temporary basis? Physically go down there and 11 temporarily assigned down there prior to the posting of this 12 other position?
13 A He wasn't transfer there permanently. I'm trying 14 to remember the time. You know the way we kindly set up and 15 operated one of our exhortations was that the individuals 16 would spend the majority of time at the site Sequoyah and 17 the sites based on what we've already worked out and what 18 they had to accomplish.
19 Now I can't remember - there were a couple of 20 stints there where he was supporting steam - cleaning 21 evolutions. I can't time wise we were doing the steam 22 generator cleaning and on that basis he was kindly assigned 23 on a temporary basis with the steam generator group. He was 24 providing the Chemistry function for that.
25 I can't remember. It may have been we were doing ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
28 a cleaning and he was spending quite a few days during that 2 time frame. Yes, he was. Let me back up because he was 3 because when we did all - when we were going through the 4 position descriptions I had to get - take copies out and we 5 had to get his input. Yes, he was. He was working on a 6 steam generator cleaning project at the time.
7 Q Okay, and that was before these other positions 8 had been posted?
9 A Correct, correct.
10 Q Do you remember about how long he was down there?
11 A It could have been at least two to four months I 12 would imagine. I can't remember because usually they start 13 before the project. You have to stage up, bring your 14 equipment. You know it's a major evolution.
is Q Okay, and I'm going to jump over to the 16 conversation that you had with Mr. Voeller who is Watts Bar.
17 Is that correct?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And that's the site that Mr. Fiser had been 20 supporting in which Mr. Voeller contacted you I guess on the 21 phone, telephone and had told you about a conversation he 22 had with Sam Harvey regarding his working with Watts Bar a 23 lot i the future. Do you remember that phone conversation?
24 A Yes, and how it transpired Gary had called me.
25 Gary Fiser called me.
AMN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
29 I Q Okay.
2 A It on a trip on my way back from Brown's Ferry and 3 he had called me while we were driving and stated that what 4 he was told - what he told me was Dave Voeller had called 5 him up and asked him about the position whether the decision 6 was made and Sam was selected to go in the position and Gary 7 said no, I don't know anything that has happened. As far as 8 I know it hasn't and so he in turn called me.
9 Then I said well no, no one has told me anything 10 and so I in turn called Dave Voeller and that's when I found 11 out what Sam had - the conversation he had with Sam.
12 Q Do you remember specifically what he told you?
13 A Well as far as I recall he had basically told me 14 that Sam had stopped up at the site - either stopped up or 15 called him on the phone and told Dave that well it looks 16 like he was going to be working with him a lot closer in the 17 future in supporting Watts Bar which was told out of 18 character because he hadn't done that in the past. We just 19 assigned his primary Plant was Sequoyah.
20 He wants to get up there and talk with the guys 21 and - I'm kindly paraphrasing so don't you know I don't 22 remember it word for word but basically he was going to be 23 going up. He was going to work closely with Dave Voeller 24 and his staff and he will be coming up there and getting 25 more involved with that, and this, that, and the other like ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
30 I this is going to start right away you know.
2 You know Dave was kindly taken back. He had taken 3 that as well I guess the decision has been made that you're 4 going to be filling that position, and I said no, as far as 5 I know I'll check when I get back to the office but we have 6 to go through you know a selection process.
7 It's got to be posted, and it's got to be you know 8 interviewed for it and everything, so I was kindly taken 9 back by it all. Gary was very upset and I told him don't 10 worry about it. Don't blow up. Just hold your peace and 11 we're going to - you know I'll talk to HR and make sure 12 we'll still on track. I'll talk to Ben and made sure and 13 just follow the process. That's what we have to - we want 14 to do what we're supposed to do based on the process.
15 Q Un-hum.
16 A You know so and that's what - you know that's what 17 he did you know follow the process. You can't take that and 18 you know - we don't want to take that and go around with it.
19 Just do what you're supposed to do.
20 Q Did you - after you had your phone call with Dave 21 Voeller and the spelling of Mr. Voeller's last name is 22 V-o-e-l-l-e-r.
23 A Correct.
24 Q After you had that conversation with him did you 25 talk to Sam Harvey about this?
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
31 1 A I recall I initially didn't say anything to him.
2 We probably ended up talking about it at some time later 3 after you know the fact. I don't recall how it transpired 4 but we ended up talking about it. Whether he came in or I 5 asked him because we were in a meeting or something but you 6 know the feed back I got was well you know it's all Dave has
.7 misunderstood what I was saying. I mean to say that if -
8 something to the effect that I meant to say well if I get 9 the position I'll be working more closely with you. Well --
10 Q Un-hum.
11 A You really don't - there's no need to say anything 12 until you're in the position you know. I think that was to 13 that to that effect. I mean he said something to that 14 effect but I didn't immediately approach him about that. I 15 mean that was kindly - I wasn't even a party of that as far 16 as him and 17 I told all the people look, we've got to follow 18 the process. Here is where the policy and here is what the 19 process is supposed to - how it's supposed to work. You 20 know I think all of us should follow the process. Now if 21 something is done indirectly it will be addressed but we 22 have to follow the process you know. Through the end you 23 follow the process. You don't go make a big problem.
24 Follow the process.
25 Q Okay.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
32 1 A They're going to interview and they said they was 2 going to follow through with it. Okay, let's follow the 3 process.
4 Q Okay. Did you ever talk to anyone else about this 5 such as Mr. McArthur?
6 A About Sam's conversation?
7 Q Un-hum.
8 A No.
9 Q Okay.
10 A No.
11 Q Going back to the selection of Mr. McArthur as the 12 new manager, the combined manager of RADCOM Chem Section.
13 A Un-hum.
14 Q When was he actually selected for that? Do you K>s 15 remember?
16 A It seems like it was back in June. June 15th. We 17 had a big staff meeting. Tom McGrath called a big staff 18 meeting. He made the formal announcement in the staff 19 meeting. I believe it was like the middle of June, 20 mid-June, 15th, something like that.
21 Q Un-hum.
22 A If I recall correctly.
23 Q And so that's when he started working in that 24 capacity sometime in June?
25 A Yes.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
33 1 Q So that would have been before - was it before the 2 posting of those --
3 A Oh, yes, yes, it was way before the posting.
4 Q Okay.
5 A Quite a bit of time compared to the process.
6 Q Before he was selected for this position how did 7 you find out that this position was going to be combined?
8 A At the - Tom McGrath called a series of meetings 9 up front to talk about well we've got a reorganization, 10 reorganize. He laid out some criteria initially here is 11 what I'm looking at and the way -- functions, this, that, 12 and the other.
13 One of the things - one of his criteria was that we 14 were going to combine these two groups and come up and then 15 just have one manager for those two groups. That was known 16 up front at one of his - put out with from one of his 17 meetings.
18 Q And when did you indicate to Mr. McGrath that you 19 were interested in applying for that position?
20 A It must have been shortly after he had mentioned 21 that. We were - I had met with him for some other things I 22 thing and you know I did mention to him that I would be 23 interested. Since it was only one position obviously I 24 would be interested in applying for the position and 25 interviewing for it.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
34 I Q Okay, and what did Mr. McGrath tell you when you 2 indicated you were interested in applying for that position?
3 A He didn't really provide any - I mean there was -
4 he may have said fine, and that was it. I mean there was no 5
6 Q Okay, I guess maybe --
7 A Specific acknowledgement okay, you know, I want 8 to make sure this - it wasn't - you know we didn't really 9 have a lengthy discussion about it. I just mentioned it.
10 You know I just stated it to him that I was interested and 11 he may have said okay, that's fine and that was it.
12 Q When did you find out they were not going to post 13 the position I guess would be more accurate and that you 14 couldn't bid on the position?
15 A When he made the announcement at the meeting.
16 Q That's the first time you had been told anything?
17 A Right, correct.
18 Q About that?
19 A Right.
20 Q And did you speak to Mr. McGrath about this 21 afterwards?
22 A No, I didn't discuss it. I mean you know Tom -
23 Tom seemed to - you know he impressed me as an individual.
24 When he makes a decision and that was his decision so he 25 made the decision and there was no well let's talk about ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
35 1 this, or let's discuss it. He made his decision and that's 2 what he wanted to do so there was no - I didn't see any need 3 to go and talk and say well why don't we look at this again 4 and this, that, and the other. I mean --
5 Q Well he had already made the decision?\
6 A Yeah.
7 Q And he --
8 A Made the decision, made the announcement, put out 9 that information. It was a formal --
10 Q But he did not discuss it with you prior to that?
11 A No.
12 Q Okay, and who did you speak to about this?
13 A (No response.)
14 Q Did you consult with anybody regarding them not posting that position?
16 A Yes, and let me preface it too - just for the 17 record. One thing I've tried to do throughout this whole 18 process is I don't want to - and I don't want to give an 19 impression but I try not to bring my situation and tie it in 20 with someone else's situation.
21 I know you have to ask the question but I'm just 22 letting you know up front and I don't want because this is 23 for the record and whoever gets this I want to make sure 24 it's clear and I've tried to state this all along my 25 situation is separate from Gary Fiser's situation.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
36 I I'm trying to deal with my situation in a separate manner and I don't want the impression to be given that well I\__y 2 3 I'm trying to tie in my own situation with Gary Fiser's 4 situation.
5 Q Exactly.
6 A And I'm not saying this to say that I want to 7 answer all your questions truthfully and fully. I just want 8 to make sure people understand that up front that it's not -
9 there is no vendetta on my part because I'm just loaded up 10 in this and that's not the case.
11 Q Well you're just answering questions.
12 A That's what I want to --
13 Q That are presented to you right now.
14 A Yeah.
15 Q And what you're really telling me from what I'm 16 hearing is that you're not filing a complaint yourself about 17 the way that was handled and that's fine. What I'm trying 18 to do they are separate, very separate situations.
19 A That's right, and I'm not you know opposed to 20 what you're asking but I just want for the record so that if 21 whoever gets the transcripts and reads this I don't want 22 them to get the wrong impression. I want it on the record 23 that I'll answer your questions, all your questions, this, 24 that, and the other but I did - I did follow through and I 25 initiated discussions with HR.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
37 1 Q Un-hum, and who did you --
2 A Ed Boyles.
3 Q Ed Boyles?
4 A Ed Boyles and Phil Reynolds.
5 Q Okay.
6 A Okay, I started with Ed - well actually I started 7 with Phil Reynolds and we brought Ed Boyles in.
8 Q Okay, and what were you told by these gentlemen?
9 A Well we had several meetings and I basically 10 expressed to them that I just didn't feel that based on 11 current established practices of HR, hiring practices, --
212 Q Policy?
13 A And policies and that this wasn't done right.
14 You know I was put in a situation where I wasn't allowed an 15 opportunity to interview for a job which I would have met 16 the qualifications for, nor was allowed to you know was kind 17 of left out in the cold so to speak. I just felt as far as 18 the position that it should have been handled as far as 19 policy was concerned.
20 Q Did you ever talk to Ben Easley about this?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And what did Mr. F.asley tell you?
23 A Well he acknowledged that you know as far as 24 policy is concerned his impression was that - his 25 interpretation was it should have been posted and so forth, ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
38 I but you know he probably had some discussions with Ed and
<9 2 this and the other, whatever they made the decision.
He didn't you know - he worked - he directed - he was 4 the - he reported directly to Ed Boyles. Ed Boyles reported 5 to Phil so Ben could only express based on his understanding 6 and experience with the policy to his direct report in 7 telling well I think we should do this.
8 My recommendation is we should do this, or handle it 9 this way. If Ed decides to do something different, or he 10 turns around and gives it to Phil Phil's -- are different 11 then you know they override that and they decide to handle 12 it this way.
13 Q Okay.
14 A So Ben - I just say that Ben didn't have the 15 final - -
16 Q I understand that.
17 A Decision on this but he was you know I mean he 18 was consistent with the way I thought about it.
19 Q Okay, did Mr. Easley indicate to you that he made 20 this recommendation to Boyles and to Reynolds that this 21 position should have been posted?
22 A It seems like in our conversation we talked about 23 that and he expressed that you know to them.
24 Q Okay.
25 A Okay, because I talked with all of them a lot you ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
39 I know and particularly Ben because I worked closely with him I\__y 2 because he was direct support in our organization.
3 Q Exactly.
4 A And then it seemed like we had talked about that 5 and he did make that recommendation that that position 6 should be posted.
7 Q Okay, so initially --
8 A And he worked with Tom McGrath too so I think he 9 pretty much expressed you know that.
10 Q To McGrath also?
11 A I can't give you a date and a time when all that 12 transpired but I'm pretty sure my recollection is I recall 13 he did that.
14 Q Okay, and so you had discussions with both Mr.
15 Reynolds and Mr. Boyles and what were they saying to you?
16 A Well I think that - your reaction would say 17 initially well we don't think it was done - well first we 18 started out and I may be stumbling a little bit on this 19 because I've never gone through having to rehash this but 20 basically we started out well we feel that nothing was done 21 wrong and Ed said that it was his decision to do this.
22 I told him I didn't agree with that. I said I don't 23 work for HR. You know I work for the General Manager Tom 24 McGrath and it's his decision. See HR advises. They say 25 well here - HR's function is here is the policy, here is our ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
40 1 recommendation. We would advise you to do this in handling 2 this situation and so forth but the hiring manager or the 3 manager in charge he makes the final call.
4 He makes the decision which way he wants to handle the 5 situation so I told him I didn't agree. I didn't think that 6 was the case. I said regardless that position - that person 7 in that position is the manager and that manager will make 8 the decision based on how he wants to handle it.
9 You advised and so forth and I can understand it.
10 Well Ed said that he - and I told him I said well still I 11 didn't - and then I got more feed back well we - well we 12 decided to do it because we felt that if we had a posted it 13 and interviewed and you weren't selected that you were going 14 to file a complaint.
15 I said well you know I've been around here for a few 16 years but I said why would I file a complaint if the policy 17 was followed and I didn't get selected. I said we're all -
18 you know I told them you know I said we're all big boys and 19 I said I've worked for people - different companies before, 20 different jobs and that's the way life is. Everything is 21 not going to go your way and you have to pick up and move 22 on. I said if I wasn't selected it was a fair process and I 23 interviewed and I wasn't selected I wasn't selected. When I 24 came here I was only here for six - for four or five months 25 and I had to reinterview for a position. I said that's the AMN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
41 1 policy.
2 That's what you - when you agree to work for a company 3 you agree to work under their rules and regulations, 4 whatever the policy is. I said that it was done fairly. I 5 said we did this back in '94 and you had not one complaint.
6 People had - you know didn't selected to positions they 7 retired, had to find another job, this, that, and the other 8 but no one complained because they knowed this was coming.
9 They just asked for fairness. Asked for fairness and it be 10 done right, and everybody given a fair opportunity and 11 that's all I said. That's all I would ask for. Just give 12 me a fair - allow me a fair opportunity like you allow 13 everyone else. You know don't arbitrarily change the rules 14 because for whatever reason. I mean you've got something 15 against a person or you like this person, or whatever the 16 reason is but this should be a fair process.
17 Q Exactly.
18 A And so they - you know they took them to heart 19 and then we went on from there and then we worked out well 20 we want to work out you know a development plan for you and 21 we want to try to work you in to a senior management level, 22 and this, that, and the other so that's kindly how it sot 23 resolved.
24 I told them I said because you - you all just had -
25 just a couple of years ago you just went through this. You ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
42 I know TVA as a whole went through this. You know big 2 situation where they didn't - where there wasn't an unfair 3 hiring, you know, interviewing, and placement practices and 4 that sort of thing.
5 Q Un-hum.
6 A And I said well you know let's do what's right 7 you know. That's all I'm suggesting here.
8 Q So because of that - the last case they had they 9 had new policy in place and basically in the situation with 10 Mr. McArthur in that position they didn't follow up that 11 policy that was implemented as a result of -- problems?
12 A As far as my understanding they didn't.
13 Q Un-hum.
14 A Now that's my understanding of it. You know this 15 is written in black and white. It's written down. I mean 16 it's not something that you have to depend on memory from.
17 Q Did they have any other explanation to you other 18 than well we thought if you didn't get selected that you 19 would file a complaint?
20 A. Well he sort - another reason was well Wilson was 21 in the capacity where he had those groups reported to him 22 anyway before hand and this was taken away so we feel that 23 it was okay to put him in that position.
24 Q Un-hum.
25 A And I told him I said why would I - what grounds ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
43 1 would I have for filing a complaint. If I'm being treated 2 fairly - if you treat fairly there is no grounds for a 3 complaint.
4 Q Un-hum.
5 A And you're following the policy and they agreed 6 to those policies when they hired in what grounds would I 7 have to file a complaint.
8 Q Okay.
9 A I wouldn't feel compelled to file a complaint. I 10 mean that's what the process is fine, I'll go look for a job 11 somewhere else. I had a job before I came to TVA. I'll 12 have a job after I leave.
13 Q Okay, let me ask you after you talked to them and 14 they told you you know their reasons for selecting Mr.
15 McArthur did you inquire as to how you could file a 16 complaint about really adverse action?
17 A No, you know, just being honest with you I told 18 them look, I'd like to resolve this in house. I want to 19 give this organization, the TVA organization, to let's 20 resolve this. Okay, in my mind I felt that injustice was 21 done. A mistake was made. Whatever you want to call it in 22 my mind it wasn't done right.
23 Q Okay.
24 A So let's try to work it out.
25 Q And did they ever come up with a --
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
44 I A And I told them I didn't have any problems. If I 2 needed to talk with Phil you know I told Phil if I needed to 3 talk with Ike -- , if I need to talk with Mr. Kingsley, or if 4 I need to go talk with the Chairman of the Board I have no 5 problems in doing that. Set up the interviews I'll go talk 6 to them. If we need - if they need to hear my views on it, 7 whatever because that's how strongly I felt about it.
8 Q And what did Mr. Reynolds say about that?
9 A Well let me talk with them and we'll work you 10 know let's see if we can work something out. We worked out 11 - he thought well what would you like - you know so the next 12 step well what would like to get out of this thing you know.
13 Q Did they come up with a written agreement for 14 you?
.15 A Yes.
16 Q Okay, and --
17 A Because I told them I said I don't want - I want 18 it in writing what we agree to. Well let me put it this 19 way. It wasn't and I don't want the impression to be given 20 like this was a formal suit filed and there was a 21 settlement. We disagreed upon what's - where do you go from 22 here.
23 Q Right.
24 A Okay, it was put in the letter well here is what 25 we're going to - here is how we want to proceed with your ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
45 1 career.
2 Q Okay.
3 A And so it was done in that manner but I told them 4 I said well I should be treated - I'm not asking for 5 preferential treatment. Treat me like you treat everyone 6 else.
7 Q Okay.
8 A Okay, that's what I told them.
9 Q Let me ask you two things. So your viewing is 10 kind of a remedy. You know the offer that they made to you 11 was remedy of that situation as far as you're not being 12 allowed to post for that position, or compete for that 13 position?
14 A Well you could - however you want to coin it. I 15 mean I'm always the one let's try to work something else.
16 Q Okay, let me ask you something. If they had not 17 been willing to do that and put you in the transition 18 program what would you have done?
19 A Well I would have taken other action.
20 Q I know I'm putting you in --
21 A Using resources within the company, using 22 resources without it because I felt strongly about it.
23 Q Okay.
24 A I felt that I - you know in my mind I felt that 25 based on the policies and the way I functioned here at TVA ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
46 that it wasn't handled right, and I felt they should own up 2 and do what's right.
3 Q Are you still at the same level that you were at 4 before as far as pay grade?
5 A Well you mean when I was RAD Chem Manager?
6 Q Right.
7 A Well no, because when they combined the functions 8 at that pay grade was PG myself, my position and Wilson 9 McArthur's position was PG 11.
10 Q Un-hum.
11 A Okay, when they combined the functions and 12 combined the manager position into one position they raised 13 it one level to PG Senior.
14 Q Okay.
15 A Okay, and so --
16 Q So in effect it really was a newly created 17 position because it did add on functions from the previous 18 19 A Well right, right it was. I mean you combined -
20 yes, you added functions together. Major functions, major 21 groups together, major responsibilities together you add 22 them into one position. Yeah, it was a new position based 23 on the policy and the rules at the time that governed that.
24 Q Right.
25 A And so it was increased to PG Senior. Stepped up ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
47 I from PG 11 to PG Senior. So throughout all this I told them 2 - they said what would like to see. They said what would 3 you like to get out of this. I said for one I want to be 4 treated the same way as you treated Wilson McArthur. If you 5 selected him and made him PG Senior then I want a comparable 6 position.
7 Q Okay.
8 A That's for one. We talked about some other thing 9 but that's --
10 Q Did they give that to you?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Un-hum.
13 A But it's a PG Senior Developmental - they didn't 14 have a position. Obviously, they didn't have a created 15 organizational block for that but they had - Phil said he 16 had a Developmental - Senior Manager Developmental position 17 in the organization we could use for that so that's what was 18 done.
19 Q Anything else in that agreement?
20 A Well the fact that your developmental - it was 21 kind of a mini-developmental plan. We're going to send you 22 to INPO. Then we'll come back. We're going to send you, 23 create various assignments such that you get - for 24 Development Management purposes. SRO class is going to be 25 included in that.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
48 1 We're going to assign you a mentor so we won't -
2 again, this was all what was laid out at this you know 3 action plan based on this previous suit and that sort of 4 thing but they tried to mimic that. I could see what they 5 were trying to do. Well we're going to assign you a mentor 6 that will work with you, a Senior Manager level mentor. One 7 of the VP's at the sites.
8 We're going to really work with you because that's 9 what you want to do. We're going to really work with you.
10 We feel you know you've got potential as a manager, this, 11 that, and the other so that's what was put on in words. Put 12 down in words.
13 Q Who was telling you this? Was it Mr. Reynolds?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Un-hum, okay. All right, and so basically who 16 was the settlement signed by?
17 A Ike -- , Oliver Kingsley.
18 Q And you're saying to me the other gentleman's 19 name is Ike --
20 A Ike Zerang.
21 Q Can you spell that?
22 A Oh, boy, I have a problem with that. We would 23 have to probably get a -- because I can't - I couldn't give 24 you a correct spelling of that.
25 Q Serang?
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
49 1 A Zerang.
2 Q Zerang?
3 A It's Z - yeah, Z-e-r-r-i-o-g-u-i. We'll have to 4 get that later.
5 Q Okay, that's fine.
6 A I've messed that up I'm pretty sure.
7 Q Kindly like -- name.
8 A Right.
9 Q It has to be very slow and delivered.
10 A Right.
11 Q Okay, I am going to get off of that topic 12 concerning you and the reason obviously I'm not pursuing a 13 separate investigation on that but what we look at is 14 disparate treatment.
\112 15 As far as - you know what I'm looking at is the 16 position that Mr. Fiser was required to bid for they went 17 down from three positions to two. They took away function.
18 Not added function but they still posted that position, but 19 in the position that you were not allowed to bid on I'm 20 comparing the actions to see if there was disparate 21 treatment in the different situations.
22 A I understand.
23 Q So that's why I'm exploring your situation. It's 24 because they acted one way here but acted differently over 25 here so you do have disparate treatment. You know it's ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
50 1 pretty - whatever the explanation they have you know it's up 2 to them.
3 A Okay.
4 Q Also in your deposition going to the screening 5 panel that was formed for the interviews for the Corporate's 6 Chemistry positions and the other positions I guess do you 7 know who was selected for the Board?
8 A This was for the Chemistry positions. Right?
9 Q Un-hum.
10 A Yes.
11 Q Okay, can you tell me --
12 A Oh, let's see Charles Kent. Originally, it was -
13 let me back up and say one thing. Originally, it was 14 supposed to be the RADCON Chemistry Managers - that's the
\1 15 three RADCON Chemistry Managers so Charles Kent - the 16 Brown's Ferry RADCOM Manager --
17 Q Cox and Mr. --
18 A John --
19 Q I'm trying to remember.
20 A Wait a minute now.
21 Q Corey.
22 A Corey, John Corey, yeah.
23 Q Un-hum, C-o-r-e-y?
24 A Right, so John Corey, Charles Kent. But now Jack 25 Cox didn't sit on the Board.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
51 I Q Okay.
2 A He was at the time at Watts Bar RADCOM Manager, 3 and they picked an individual, an engineer here at 4 Corporate. Let's see what was his name. Oh, gosh, I can't 5 think of his name right off hand. I know it's in the 6 deposition.
7 Q Was it Rodgers?
8 A Yes, yes, yes.
9 Q I think that's R-o-d-g-e-r-s maybe.
10 A Yeah, R-o-g-e-r-s, yeah.
11 Q Okay, when did you - in your deposition basically 12 to go back to that you indicated that Mr. McArthur told you 13 and Ben Easley he was going to be on the Board and that for 14 some reason or that he was paneling this Board, and that for 15 some reason he could not get Cox.
16 You indicated in the deposition that he, Mr. McArthur, 17 had mentioned this to you while you were talking to Easley.
18 Do you remember that conversation?
19 A Yes, in fact what happened was Wilson and my 20 office were next to each other and Wilson does it quite 21 often. He was there talking with Ben and he just - I just 22 walked by the office and he called me, hey, come here we 23 need to talk about something, this, that, and the other.
24 They were talking about I guess like setting up the 25 Board and everything. He said well I can't - I'm not going ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
52 to be able to put - I can't get Jack Cox. I can't get him 2 to be part of the Board and Ben and I looked at each other.
3 I said well you know you really should get - you know 4 he should be on the Board if you want to have fairness on 5 this because see because the people - each individual you 6 interview has got you know at least one ally in there 7 because they support and that's not - you would expect that 8 because that individual the RADCON Manager obviously would 9 support his guy that is supporting him on - he's his proper 10 contact. You would expect that.
11 If he's doing a good job you're going to support your 12 man you know. Not to say you don't think anything of - or 13 you think less of the others but you're going to be 14 supporting your guy you would naturally tend to support your 15 guy.
16 From a fairness standpoint we thought well to balance 17 it you should have - if you're going to have one RADCON 18 Manager from site you should have all three so everybody has 19 got - so you won't get accused of what I know bias on the 20 Board you know. It's not - it was slanted. The deck is 21 stacked against me.
22 You don't want any of that so you want to try to 23 create a Board that's unbias. Everybody gets a fair 24 opportunity so you want to make sure the perception is there 25 as well you know. We both look, you need to get Jack Cox on ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
53 that Board because that's going to make it look unbalanced.
t , 2 Q Okay, and what did he say?
3 A If I recall he said something he had to talk with 4 Tom McGrath about it. It was between him and Tom McGrath 5 you know so he had to talk to Tom McGrath about it. We said 6 - I told him that's my recommendation. I said I'm not 7 involved but I said if you want to try to do this fairly and 8 not have a lot of flag I mean you need to do that.
9 Q Did anyone ever tell you that Mr. Cox was not 10 allowed or was asked to recuse himself from the Board 11 because he was in favor or support of Mr. Fiser?
12 A No, the only thing I heard at that time was that 13 - which was really puzzling to me was the fact that well 14 Jack Cox doesn't want to be on the Board. He can't sit on 15i it. He has got something else to do.
16 Q Un-hum.
17 A And that just was very peculiar to me because 18 Jack always he was - he made a point. On a regular basis he 19 would call me up you know - (phone rings) Do you need to get 20 the phone?
21 Q No, go ahead.
22 A Nothing I initiated. He would call me up and say 23 hey, you know, Ron, Gary has been up here. His support is 24 on this problem. We want to let you know, provide you feed 25 back so you know he was always supportive. He said you know ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
54 1 when we had this meeting - we had one meeting. He said Gary 2 was the only guy that came up here and stayed with us and 3 worked with us, this, that, and the other.
4 He said you need to really make sure you consider that 5 when you're doing his reviews and this, that, and the other.
6 I said well that's great I do that. You know I welcome that 7 so it seemed awfully odd that all up until this time that 8 all the staffing were supporting him.
9 Now when there was a need for him to come forward and 10 you know make best selection, support his guy, whatever 11 provide support not to say he's going to select him over the 12 others but you know he would say well I can't do it, or I'm 13 busy, or I don't want to do it, this, that, and the other.
14 Q Do you know how long you know at what point that
'--/ 15 was-prior to the interviews that you were told by Mr.
16 McArthur --
17 A It was like a couple of days before or whatever 18 and I told John, I said listen, my recommendation is you 19 should try to work it out and work out another date if you 20 can make it happen with you. Work out when you can get them 21 all there.
22 Q And what was his --
23 A Because that's too critical. That's too 24 important. It's too sensitive. When you deal with people 25 that lies you just don't handle that in just a casual ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
55 1 manner. I mean this is real life. You're dealing with K-)1 2 somebody's future, his family, and everybody else so you 3 don't want to just make them - you know you want to try to 4 do everything right. That's my opinion on it.
5 Q And what did Mr. McArthur say about that?
6 A Well he was telling me you know he said he had to 7 get with Tom McGrath and make a decision.
8 Q Okay.
9 A What they wanted to do. That's how it was left.
10 Q Okay. Did Mr. McArthur or anyone else ever tell 11 you that Fiser had been secretly tape recording other people 12 in TVA? Were you ever told that?
13 A He had mentioned that in conversation. You know 14 he had mentioned that I guess during his last - when he was 15 going through the prior case. He had sat in, had discussed 16 it with some of the people I guess after he was terminated 17 or moved over to the support group that he was taping 18 people. You know I can't get - you know I - look, I can 19 only go and I told everybody that. I told when I first 20 hired here and I told the General Manager and I told Wilson 21 look, I tell everybody that. Look I can only go on this man 22 shows up to work. I can only go from here forward. I can't 23 get tied into what happened in the past, this, that, and the 24 other.
25 That's not fair to that individual. We're going to ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
56 I start fresh. We're going to move forward. Now I'm not - I 2 can't - I wasn't here. I don't have any involvement 3 whatever happened to his past. I'm going to treat him as if 4 we're starting fresh and we go forward from here.
5 I'm not going to hold anything against that I wasn't 6 even around. It's just all talk. It's all hearsay you know 7 and that's unfair to the individual.
8 Q Okay.
9 A So I don't - he has mentioned that. He said well 10 we're afraid to - look, I can't - let's deal with facts. If 11 we're going to deal with facts if there's something factual 12 you've got to say that he's doing now that's affecting his 13 performance or whatever, and he's not performance based or 14 there's something that's factual then we can talk about it.
15 Q So you think he kindly indicated that he was 16 afraid of discussing certain things around because of this 17 past tape recording?
18 A He said stuff like that.
19 Q Yeah.
20 A You know Wilson has got - sometimes he jokes 21 about it. To tell you the truth I didn't take it - I don't 22 take - I didn't take it that seriously.
23 Q Okay.
24 A I mean that could have happened. What am I 25 supposed to do about it.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
57 1 Q Yeah.
2 A Am I not supposed to be his manager. What am I 3 supposed to do about it. I'm supposed to write that up in 4 his performance review that two years ago he taped. Ten 5 years, five years ago he taped some individual's 6 conversation that he had with you or something.
7 Q Okay, so you were --
8 A Totally inappropriate.
9 Q To get to when you were the Manager there at 10 Corporate Chemistry you had both Mr. Fiser and Harvey 11 working for you?
12 A Correct.
13 Q So that was from '94 through '96?
14 A Correct.
15 Q Both of them worked for you during that time?
16 A Correct.
17 Q Did you write the evaluations for both of them?
18 A Correct.
19 Q And how - I guess Mr. Harvey was supporting 20 Sequoyah. Mr. Fiser was supporting Watts Bar?
21 A Correct.
22 Q And I'm not even going into -- because it's a 23 different type of work, support but how did you rate both of 24 them?
25 A Both of them I mean they didn't have - I mean ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
58 I they had good - basically good evaluations. I mean - I 2 don't recall you know there was two years whether he got a 3 3.2 or 3.4. I don't recall the numbers you know the 4 numerical ratings associated with their -- but I mean they 5 didn't have - neither one of them never had unsatisfactory 6 performance reviews.
7 Q Okay.
8 A Now there were some you know - we've talked about 9 it with all of them. There is always some things we could 10 work on and this, that, and the other. If I was critical in 11 one area of you and you didn't work up to expectations for 12 some area or for some project or something I let them know 13 that. We talked about it. I let them know that.
14 Q Okay.
15 A You know I didn't hold any balls back, this, 16 that, and the other and so they had an opportunity to 17 change, or if I had the wrong understanding or something and 18 we weren't communicating so we tried to get on common ground 19 so we both understood what the expectation was.
20 Q Un-hum.
21 A And so once we understood what the expectation 22 was and then the expectation wasn't met then I provided that 23 feed back. On conversely if the expectation was met or 24 exceeded I provided that feed back so --
25 Q Did you have performance problems with either one ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
59 I of them?
2 A No, no performance problems with Gary. We did 3 have some things we had to work on with Mr. Harvey.
4 Q And what was that?
5 A It's just focus. Focus on getting things done.
6 Becoming more task oriented. Delivering a product.
7 Completing assignments. You know with the group in general 8 I told them I said one of the things, one of our main 9 objectives is to we're responsible for is figuring how to 10 solve problems and closure. I said that's what we've got to 11 focus on. When I came here we didn't do - that wasn't even 12 addressed.
13 Well we have a lot of initiatives done. We'll start 14 with this and then fill them out. We'll start - that's why we couldn't get anything done. You know that's why we 16 couldn't - we couldn't see improvement to me in my opinion 17 at the Plants. You know we were in a reactionary modes that 18 are pro-actionary modes, and yet we've got this problem.
19 Okay, let's start all these initiatives. Write all 20 this stuff up and write the papers up. We're going to do 21 this, and this and we're going to write them and do an 22 assessment and never followed through with it. Never get it 23 done so you can't see the results.
24 You can't see any results that did improve so that was 25 one thing it was the style the managers was approaching.
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
60 I'm not trying to bash Sam or anything like that but I think 2.
~1~ 2 he had the hardest time of everyone in the group of 3 accepting that you know.
4 When I came there they didn't have a manager. They 5 just kind of did his own thing so I think he had a hard time 6 and he had to adjust to my style and I had to try to adjust 7 to the way he likes things. We tried and we got - I think 8 we - we had some rough spots there for a while and you know 9 toward the end I think he started to come around. I mean 10 that's just part of nature's business. You know --
11 Q Did anyone ever tell you anything about Mr.
12 Harvey writing up some kind of report that actually was 13 saying that he had written this report but it actually 14 wasn't his report during a shut down or something like that?
15 A Let me - yeah, let me - yes, I mean that - I 16 recall someone mentioning that to me. I just you know what 17 am I supposed to do about it. I mean it --
18 Q Okay, did you ever talk to Mr. Harvey about that?
19 A No, it was something that transpired before I was 20 here.
21 Q Oh, okay.
22 A Yes, this wasn't --
23 Q That was prior to the '94/'96 time frame?
24 A Yeah, he may have just written it just when I got 25 there but it was prior to - when I was here we made sure ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
61 1 what we put together was authentic and was by whoever signed 2 that report.
3 Now they may have gotten - used other resources or 4 other inputs, this, that, and the other but I tried to make 5 sure what we put out was factual and what we you know --
6 Q Your own work?
7 A Our own work. Now if it wasn't our own work we 8 would reference what was included. That' what I tried to 9 impress upon the individuals to make sure that we did that 10 because we're held accountable for it.
11 Now he may have done that. I've heard stories you 12 know but --
13 Q It didn't happen --
14 A I tried to make sure it didn't happen during my 15 watch, okay.
16 Q Okay.
17 A While I was involved.
18 Q And I guess the only other thing as far as Mr.
19 Harvey's background would be whether he was ever involved in 20 counseling for harassment of any kind. Are you aware of 21 that?
22 A Yes. Well I'm not aware of him receiving any 23 counseling. I'm aware there were a couple of issues we had 24 to deal with in that area with him.
25 Q Okay, and what were those issues?
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
62 I A Well I think - let me see if I can figure out the 2 best way to put this. Sam has always been very talkative 3 and he doesn't - in my relation with him he doesn't always 4 think through a lot of the things he says, and for some 5 reason he has had several run ins with female employees.
6 The things he said, the way he has come across, and 7 he's trying - they take it as being belittlement or you know 8 I don't know what it is. I don't - because I chuckle it's 9 not that I don't it as a serious matter because it is.
10 Okay, and we treat it as a serious matter but for whatever 11 reason he has had several run ins particularly with a couple 12 with the sites Sequoyah and at Watts Bar.
13 We had a couple staff people here as students, female 14 students, and I've had to talk to him several times. Look, 15 Sam you've got to think of what you're - you know you need 16 to think through what you say to people, and you need to 17 understand and be sensitive how you're treating people.
18 You know female employees because they're in their 19 group or you work with them that doesn't mean that because 20 they're female they're subordinate to you. You know or 21 you're supposed to be in charge of that. That's not what 22 that - that's totally inappropriate and it shouldn't exist.
23 Q When you were his manager how many complaints 24 would you say you got against Mr. Harvey for matters such as 25 that?
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
63 I A Well probably three to four.
2 Q Did you ever get anything like that complaints 3 against Mr. Fiser?
4 A No.
5 Q Did you ever have any performance problems with 6 Mr. Fiser?
7 A No.
8 Q That you had to counsel him on?
9 A No.
10 Q I'm going to ask you a very subjective you know 11 question right now regarding if you were in the position to 12 be the one that had selected based on your two years of 13 working as their manager if you had based on their prior 14 backgrounds, their expertise, their performance, their 15 attitude, if you had to select that person that was going to 16 support Watts Bar in that position who would you have 17 selected?
18 A If the decision was mine?
19 Q Yes.
20 A Well I would have to select Gary. I mean if he's 21 Watts Bar - he's primary supporting Watts Bar and let me 22 back up and say this. Maybe this is inappropriate or you 23 can tell me if it's off base now - if I had to do it, if I 24 had influence on it, this, that, and the other what I would 25 have done okay, would have tried to make happen I would move ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
64 I Sam out of Sequoyah and left those two positions, or that 2 and then post position and let the people fairly interview 3 for.
4 Either that or if it's too much controversy, you're S not making enough change in the performance to position 6 description just go on seniority.
7 Q Un-hum.
8 A Just say we're going to go on seniority. Whoever 9 has got the most time that's what you're going to have to do 10 but I would have tried to handle the situation a little bit 11 different. If it was my decision, if it was my call, or for 12 my nickel now I'm only one voice but that's - if I had the 13 flexibility - if it was up to me and I had the flexibility 14 to do it I would have done that.
15 I would have seized that opportunity just because we 16 had environmental people. I had two people in environmental 17 I had to you know essentially they did interview for one --.
18 I mean one of them did but you know - so I looked around and 19 tried to help them.
20 We got one of them a position up in Knoxville. We got 21 another one a position in another group so my whole 22 objective was let's look at other options and try to be 23 aggressive and actively seek out where we can keep everybody 24 employed.
25 If that's the wrong thing to do I'll take that you ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
65 1 I know. Beat me up on that. Okay, admonish me for that but 2 that was my whole feeling at the time.
3 Q Now I mean you're taking care of your people is 4 what it sounds like, a good manager.
5 A Well that would have been to me the right way to 6 go and you could - you had a spot there you could have did 7 this.
8 Q But going back to the question as it was the way 9 he did it --
10 A You said for Watts Bar. You said if we was 11 selecting them for Watts Bar --
12 Q Or for that position and I realize now that --
13 A Well the position --
14 Q Was Watts Bar and Sequoyah.
15 A Right.
16 Q Okay, for the position that was there that they 17 were bidding on, the one that was posted, going back the 18 same way based on you know their expertise, their 19 backgrounds, their experiences --
20 A Un-hum.
21 Q Your experience working with them, their 22 performance underneath you, you know, which one would you 23 have selected for that?
24 A Well and that's strictly based on performance -
25 performance reviews and the contributions and you look at ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
66 1 the total picture. I would have had to select Gary and it will be - and that selection would be based on an objective 12 3 decision and one of the main reasons why he would get the 4 edge is because Gary was very interchangeable with all the 5 sites.
6 He did work at all the sites, and while Sam had a good 7 foot hold in Sequoyah and I'm not saying there's some things 8 he didn't do well. I mean he had potential, okay, but he 9 didn't sit as well with the other sites. Okay, he wasn't as 10 interchangeable as Gary so I would have to look at from an 11 objective standpoint I look at performance reviews and what 12 they've done in the past and also look at it objectively how 13 can the needs best be met.
14 -- was interchangeable more you know interchangeable K 15 and Gary was interchangeable so you have to look at well 16 when the dust settles where can we get the most bag for a 17 buck and -- to say that but where can we get the most for 18 what we had left.
19 Q Un-hum.
20 A And I told them that. I told Wilson that. I 21 told Tom McGrath and I told John Mcjeskie. I said if you 22 had to cut down and leave onp person I told them from the -
23 leave -- because he's the most - he's got the best - he's 24 the most interchangeable. He's sound chemistry and RADCON 25 wise so if you have to cut the guys you want to leave the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
67 I person that can best support the organization.
to_>J 2 Q Right.
3 A That included myself. I told them I said if you 4 leave one person that's the person and so it wasn't like I 5 was - I looked at from a - I tried to look at it from an 6 objective standpoint. Who is going to best serve the need.
7 Q When you indicated that to Mr. McArthur, Mr.
8 McGrath, and whoever else you may have talked to about who 9 you would have selected, or how you would have handled it 10 did you tell them how you would have handled it?
11 A Well this was at a different time. Not during 12 this time.
13 Q Oh --
14 A I just said I mentioned that before. I said we 15 get in a situation and this wasn't during the time. I said 16 we get in a situation where we get a mandate okay, we're 17 only going to have one chemistry guy left here, one RADCON 18 guy left here you know I just told them - I said if we ever 19 get in that situation my recommendation is this is the 20 person that you should have based on - and the reason why I 21 did that here is what the contribution is - here is what 22 this contribution this person has made.
23 A lot of times you get two, three levels up they don't 24 get that and so I tried to communicate that up so people 25 would know so we don't make the wrong decision. If I'm ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
68 I gone, Wilson, everybody else is gone who is the best person 2 to keep there.
3 Q Right.
4 A To meet the need. You know no need in keeping a 5 man a -- manager he can't support the sites. He doesn't go 6 to the sites. He can't provide what they need.
7 Q Un-hum.
8 A So it was an effort to try to feed that up. A 9 lot of times at performance reviews they may not review the 10 performance. They don't know what type of performance you 1I know and I spent a lot of time - well a considerable amount 12 of that time I try to communicate that. I said look, here 13 is what these guys are doing. Here is the type of 14 performance we get. Call the sites. If you don't believe me, don't take my word. Please don't take my word. Call 16 the sites.
17 Q Did you ever get the feeling that Mr. McGrath 18 just didn't like Fiser?
19 A Well that's the sense I had. Now I'm not saying 20 15 that's the correct sense, this, that, and the other but 21 that's the sense I had.
22 Q Okay.
23 A That he didn't really have a liking toward Gary 24 but --
25 Q And what about Mr. McArthur how do you think he ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
69 I felt about Mr. Fiser? What was your sense?
2 A (Chuckles) 3 Q You said he was in counseling for earlier --
4 A I didn't know what the sense was. Well Wilson I 5 guess from me it appeared to me that he could along with 6 Gary. He liked Gary as a person. Okay, but I mean I'm 7 being honest with you. I didn't know where Wilson was 8 coming from. I mean you know one minute he says one minute.
9 One the next minute he says he didn't. This guy is taking 10 me. I can't trust him. This guy did that.
11 Q Right.
12 A One minute he said well I can't trust him, and 13 this, that, and the other, and then the other minute he said 14 well you know I really like Gary. Gary needs a shot. You
<,~ 15 know he's coming back and he really got - you know he really 16 was done wrong, but then on the other hand well yeah, I 17 can't really trust him and this, that, and the other. I 18 really think he's - I just try to base it on facts. My 1.9 position of facts and performance. Let's be performance 20 based.
21 Q You mentioned something and I've heard this 22 before about the comment about him having been done wrong.
23 Are you talking about that 1993 situation, or --
24 A Right, when we was coming back I didn't know you 25 know I was - first I was directed by Wilson let's start ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
70 1 looking around because we need to get a person for that position. Then one day well don't do anything with that 12 3 position because we've got an employee coming back who is 4 going to fill that position.
5 Then he proceeded to tell me about Gary Fiser and how 6 Gary was done wrong, and this, that, and the other. He's a 7 real good guy and this - you know everybody told me before 8 he got here hey, this is a real good guy. He just got mis -
9 you know just was done wrong. That's all I got. I didn't 10 get anything negative about Gary.
11 Q Okay.
12 A You know and you know I was told well but you 13 know just watch him and make sure to see how things go and 14 this, that, and the other. I am well I am. Just treat him like everybody else. Let's start and let's go to work.
Q Okay.
A And you know we don't - we never talked about what happened in the past. Never once did I talk to him 216 about what happened. When he started working I never talked 17 25 to him once about what happened in the past, this, that, and the other. Hi, I'm Ron Grover and here is what we're trying 20 to - you know we talked a while. Here is what we're trying to do. Just like that and we moved forward.
24 Q Okay, good and that's what it appears to just --
25 A Yeah, Wilson was a very -- opponent. Oh, man, ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
71 1 this guy is a good guy. He was done wrong. He really needs 2 - he really deserves a good shot, this, that, and the other 3 you know.
4 Okay, I'll work with him. Who you know - that's all 5 the feed back I got. Some of his peers that worked with him 6 they said the same thing. Plants said the same thing so 7 okay, well fine let's get him here. Let's see how it works 8 out you know.
9 Q Did you talk to Gary after the screening panel 10 for the 1996 posting of the position? Did he ever talk to 11 you - come talk to you about his non-selection for that 12 position?
13 A You mean after the interviews?
14 Q Un-hum.
15 A Were held and he wasn't selected?
16 Q Un-hum.
17 A Yeah, we talked. I tried to suggest to him - you 18 just want to know what we talked about?
19 Q Well basically what was his feeling at the time?
20 A Well I mean he was disappointed. He was 21 disappointed in the process. He felt the process wasn't 22 totally fair and I think the one thing he - one thing that 23 really stuck out that he was really disappointed about was 24 the fact that Jack Cox wasn't on the selection Board.
25 You know after all he did, all the support he provided ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
72 1 and the Plant that he really supported wasn't represented on 2 the Board. You know they couldn't get Jack Cox. They 3 couldn't get anybody.
4 They couldn't get one - they didn't get one 5 representative from the Plant to set the Board and I think 6 that really is what stuck with him and that he was really 7 the most disappointed in.
8 Q Did you ever talk to Cox about that afterwards 9 yourself?
10 A No.
11 Q Did you talk to McArthur any further about Gary's 12 non-selection or anything else?
13 A No, didn't - I really intentionally just stayed 14 out of the process. He asked me to work with the position description and I coordinated that. I got with Sam and I 16 tried to get everybody's - Sam was --. Went out got his 17 input, tried to get - I tried to help facilitate.
18 I always tried to help facilitate the process to go 19 through but I did not try to interfere or stop and throw a 20 wrench in anything. If he asked me.my advice - he come to 21 me all the time. He asked my advice. I gave it to him. I 22 said that's my advice you know. You asked my opinion that's 23 what my opinion is but I did not try to impede or interfere 24 in any way with the process.
25 Q All right, do you have any questions that you ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
73 1 want to ask me, or is there anything else that you think I 2 need to know about?
3 A No, I think - you know I've expressed that to you 4 that I just - I think throughout the whole process we were 5 just looking for fairness.
6 Q Un-hum.
7 A In following the policy.
8 Q Do you have any suggestions on who else I might 9 speak to that had - might have knowledge of certain 10 decisions that were made you know by upper management 11 concerning the posting of the position, or any desire on 12 somebody's part not to have Gary in that position?
13 A I don't know who you've spoken with or who you 14 have a list of people to speak to so far.
15 Q Well who would you suggest that?
16 A Well you've talked with HR representatives, Ben 17 Easley, Wilson McArthur, any - you know I imagine you've 18 talked to everybody involved. I mean you -- you spoke with 19 him or Sam. You know just get everybody that's kind of 20 directly involved I guess in some way or another indirectly 21 to get their - you know you talked with the Environmental 22 people that were involved that didn't get selected. Talk to 23 them.
24 Deidre Nida you know she's over the lab now. You know 25 I'm just throwing that - putting out those names because ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
74 1 they were in the group and he went through all this together
,~ 2 so they may know something, or may offer some - Trish Lander 3 she's over our building over here in an environmental group.
4 You know those are the only people that I know because they 5 were mainly you know there when this all transpired so they 6 would have more - if I forgot something or left something 7 out maybe they can fill in the blanks.
8 Q Okay, anything else at all?
9 A No.
10 MS. BENSON: Well I appreciate all your time today. I 11 didn't really expect it would take quite as long as we did 12 but you've been very helpful.
13 MR. GROVER: Okay.
14 MS. BENSON: Very forthright. Like I said I kindly 15 detected that when I read the other interviews too and if 16 you need anything at all I'm going to give you a card. You 17 can give me a call.
18 MR. GROVER: Sure.
19 MS. BENSON: Okay.
20 MR. GROVER: I appreciate it.
21 MS. BENSON: And thank you for your help today.
22 MR. GROVER: Okay.
23 MS. BENSON: The time now is approximately 12:50.
24 (Whereupon, at 12:50 p.m., the interview was 25 concluded.)
ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
Court Reporters 1025 Connecticut Avenue, NW, Suite 1014 Washington, D.C. 20036 (202) 842-0034
n7 I.- i, PROOER2ADER'S CERTIF1CATB In the Matter of: INTERVIEW OF RONALD O. GROVER Witness: RONALD 0. GROVER File Number:
Date: DECEMBER 18, 1998 Location: CHATTANOOGA, TENNESSEE This is to certify that I, Bob Addington. do hereby swear and affirm that the attached proceedings before the U.S.
Nuclear Regulatory Commission were held according to the record and that this is the original, complete, true and accurate transcript that has been compared to the reporting or recording accomplished at the hearing.
Date: DECEMBER 22, 1998 Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd