ML20136H352

Intervenor Exhibit I-32-H,consisting of marked-up Pages 42-50 of Transcript of Jv Abramovici 841015 Desposition in Harrisburg,Pa Re Installation of Hydrogen Recombiners

ML20136H352
Person / Time
Site:	Three Mile Island
Issue date:	12/14/1984
From:	Abramovici J AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED
To:
References
SP-I-032-H, SP-I-32-H, NUDOCS 8508200275
Download: ML20136H352 (10)

Text

l

31. k

&n 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4

IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO. 50-289 5

METROPOLITAN EDISON COMPANY 6 (THREE MILE ISLAND NUCLEAR STATION, UNIT NUMBER I) 7 8

9 DEPOSITION OF: JULIEN V. ABRAM0VICI 10 TAKEN BY: THREE MILE ISLAND ALERT 11 BEFORE: SUSAN L. SCHREFFLER, RPR-CP REPORTER - NOTARY PUBLIC 12 DATE: OCTOBER 15, 1984, 6:00 P.M.

13 1~ PLACE: Q. AKER MEETING HALL 14 c AND HERR STREETS PMpSIHARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA 15 G'r' ,

t?/  ;

16 C #

C

. AUG 7 Epso $

17 (

j,y,.,

fj7 2

18 APPEARANCES: h , .3

^

susuna asseursar semussues 19 GOVERNMENTACCOUNTAkLITYPRd .. M '2f 7 e,n.i.: an. n M BY: LYNNE BERNABEI

~

i.in. ..itw ., f, /77,%

20 FOR - THREE MILE ISLAND ALERT 8Mtf IDENTIFilD j/

BISHOP, LIBERMAN & COOK An63.ul assavaa V 21 BY: JOHN F. WILSON intwn.., ..u anneras 22 FOR GPU NUCLEAR c..ra sert (

ca.'ta'* mar /Z/N8Y 23 0FFICE OF EXECUTIVE LEGAL DIRECTOR , , _ . --

)

BY: LOIS FINKELSTEIN [ 4/ -

31 FOR - NUCLEAR REGULATOR 3 4 WM N TN ,,

25 t

- GEIGER & LORIA REPORTING SERVICE. INC 1000 MARKET ST.HBG. PA 17101 HSG. 234 2109 PA 1800 222 GLRS -

l Q

l

14 2 l-n w What did you I Q What did you pick up at that point?

2 -see your responsibilities as?

3 A 11, like I say, I was the most junior of the group 4 and whatever ay wanted me to do, I would have dond it.

What wereN your responsibilfties as,y6u saw it? -

In 5 Q l

6 other words, what did eople tell y'oG to,do at that point?

7 .A Like I say, other than helpir$g with this plot --

(

.8 and I don't recall whether\ I- read'/the numbers or put them in l

9 the calculator; I don't recogn Ze xmy handwriting in there --

10 done that day other thar.

l I just don't recall exactly / what I h'ad<\

11 again, later on when we went to the Observation N Center -- I'm

/

12 sorry, to the proIessing center at the Island.

(- 13 Q Whe'n was that?

i 14 A / I'd say it was sometime -- I'd say mid morning, -

/

15 somewhere in the eleven _to_three__ time _ frame. _ _

l 16 Q What did you do at the processing center?

i 17 A We waited for Dick Wilson to come from Parsippany 2 with some other people.

s Q Did Mr. Wilson arrive?

20 A Yes, he did.

21 Q Wh'at did you do at the time he arrived?

22 A We went into one of the conference rooms there and l

21 I think George Kunder was one of the people that came in and 24 briefed. Dick Wilson as to what has happened.

25 Q Okay.

- GEIGER 4 LORIA REPORTING SERVICE. INC 1000 MARKET ST HsG. PA 171Of HSG. 234 2109 PA 1800 222 GLRS -

o .

43 3D 1 A I think there was Bill Lowe from Pickard, Lowe &

2 Garrick.

3 Q Anybody ;1se that you can remember?

4 A There was a room full of people, I just don't 5 remember who they were. George Lehmann was there, I know I 6 that.

l l

7 Q How about the other people you had come down with; 8 Mr. Moore, Mr. Broughton, Mr. Lentz?

9 A I ---probably they were there, but I do not remember.

10 Q What was discussed at the meeting other thar. Mr..

11 Kunder briefing Mr. Wilson?

u A One thing that did come up was the fact that there was a concern for hydrogen inside the Reactor Building, and

!} m the installation of the hydrogen recombiners was discussed.

14 If I'm correct, the hydrogen recombiners at that I

15 Q 16 point, there was no requiremant that they be hooked up?

17 A That's correct.

m Q The concern expressed for hydrogen, who expressed m that concern?

20 A George Kunder.

l 21 Q Did he state the basis for his concern?

22 A To the best of my recollection, he indicated they i

i 23 took Reactor Building sample and he was reading somewhere in 24 the vicinity of four percent hydrogen. '

y, Q Any other bases that stated for his concern?

y-

-V l - Goorn a i.oma arPontino senvict. inc icoo mAnurt st neG. PA 17101 HOG. 234 2109 PA 1000 222 GLR $ -

I' 44 l

h p'

i 1 A I do not recall.

2 Q Now, was there any discussion as to how the hydrogen l

l 3 might have been produced?

4 A I don't recall.

5 Q What other discussion was there on the possible 6 presence of hydrogen?

7 A I don't remember.

! 8 Q Was there a discussicn as to what to do with the 9 hydrogen combiner?

10 A To the best of my recollection, the decision was to 11 getsomebodyfromAtomicsInternationalwhomadethecombinebs, u you know, to help us out since there was a potential for l( 13 higher than design limit on hydrogen.

14 Q What was the design limit at that time?

15 A I think it was four percent.

16 Q So, there was a decision to get advice from Atomics l

17 International?

E A Rockwell International and Atomics International.

i B One is a division of the other. I'm not exactly sure who is 30 who.

21 Q Was someone in fact consulted from Rockwell or l

22 Atomics International?

23 A Yes.

21 Q Who?

25 A There was a gentleman named Jim Hendre, with whom i 9 o

- GilGER 4 LONIA REPORflNG SERYlCE. INC 1000 M ARI(CT ST H00. PA 17101 HRG. 234 2009 P41000 222 6LR$ -

u . - _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ . _ _

45

& l I worked closely -- that's why I remember -- that came from

(

2 Atomics International, Rockwell International, and he was 3 considered one of the foremost authorities on hydrogen and I

4 hydrogen recombiners.

l 5 If I'm not mistaken, prior to him arriving, there 6 was a gentleman named I think Allison, who was a technical 7 representative that again, to the best of my recollection, 8 arrived before Jim Hendre did.

9 Q Where was he from?

10 A He was aldb from Rockwell or Atomics International, 11 but he was a field representative.

U Q Was he at this meeting, by any chance?

No,'none of these people were at the meeting.

}[ D A They 14 arrived after the meeting.

15 Q Who implemented or carried out this decision to 16 contact either Mr. Hendre or Mr. Allison?

17 A I don't recall the exact individual. As a result 2 of Mr. Wilson's arrival, he set up shifts, you know, with an B individual in char 6e who would support people in the Tech j 20 Support -- so-called Tech Support Center and people who would 21 be in the control room. He also set up people, a group of l 22 people to interview other people in operations.

23 Q That is like control room operators?

24 A Control room operators, I guess engineers. I don't 25 know who compiled that group, but I know it was set up.

is e

l - sesetR a Lo#0A REP 00mM4 SERVICL INC.. 1000 88ANNET $7,.H00. PA 17101 HeQ H4 2109 PA I.000 222 OLRS -

l

L 46 1

1 Q To your knowledge, somehow Mr. Allison and the other 2 ~ gentleman --

l 3 A Mr. Hendre.

4 Q Mr. Hendre. They were contacted, is that correct?

5 A Right.

6 Q Did they come to the site?

7 A Yes, they did.

I 8 Q .When did they come to the site?

9 A I don't recall the exact date, 'but probably on the -- .

I W I would say on the 30th or the 31st.

I 11 Q Again, their consultation was sought with regard 12 to linking up the hydrogen recombiner?

((,. 13 A Again, Allison was field rep, you know, a field 14 representative, so he would know the hardware inside out. -

15 Hendre was more of a design type, consultant type rather than 16 a hands on type working with the equipment.

17 Q Now, Mr. Lowe was at this meeting, is that correct?

18 A Yes, he was.-

l 19 Q. Do you remember any discussion or anything he said l

j 2D about this production of hydrogen?

21 A I do not.

22 Q Did you say anything at this meeting?

23 A- To the best of-my recollection, I suggested that 24 they hook up the recombiners. The reason I say that is prior 25 to me working in Mechanical Systems, I worked in Mechanical  ;

?

^) ..

= 4884tR 4 L0004 NEPONfl006 SERVICE. INC. 1000 MA#etti ST,.Hoo. PA 17101 Hed. 234 2109 PA l. coo.332 OLR$ -

y 47 L

1 Components and I'was involved in buying the hydrogen recombiners 2 for Forked River. Regulatory guides allow you to share a 3 unit between plants, and since we already had a similar unit 4 at TMI, was the decision to buy a similar unit for Forked River 5 so we can share it. So, I was kind of familiar with the unit.

6- .There was a general concern with recombiners because 7 I think just before TMI, a few months back,,there was a 8 detonation at Oyster Creek, but that was a catalytic recombiner ,

9 not a. thermal recombiner like at TMI.

m Q So, there was some concern that perhaps the actuatior ,

11 of the recombiner might cause a spark or combustion of some 12 sort?

u A Well, there was -- I think it's fair to say that

{ ~}

u there was a concern that once you hook up the recombiners, m you are actually opening the Reactor Building isolation to la the outside environment, which would be the auxillary building 17 in this case. Again, I think the auxillary building, I'm not a sure.

m Q .Wny would that be harmful?

23- A The harmful is that. the potential is there that if 21 you do have a -- either a detonation or you have a release 22 of radioactivity through the lines, through leakage, it would 23 be harmful to the people on site and off site by increasing

.m the off site doses and on site doses.

26 Q In terms of the detonation, you're talking about t = 88888814 LOGIA REPelmIBS SEINICE. Hec., f ete NAHiltf St Nee, PA f7100 NOS. 334 2109 PA l.000 8864LIIS -

48

& 1 detonation of the hydrogen?

2 A Yes.

3 Q So, it's fair to say there was some concern about 4 possible detonation of hydrogen in the Reactor Building?

5 A No, in the recombiner.

6 Q In the recombiner?

7 A In the recombiner.

8 Q If the recombiner were joined up or were put into 9 operation?

10 A As I stated before, the recombiner again, to the 11 best of my recollections, was designed for four percent. So, U there was a concern that if taere was excess of four percent

[ 13 hydrogen, even so below the flammable limit -- which again I 14 think was somewhere in the seven to fourteen percent region --

15 you could have a detonation.

16 In other words, if the recombiner is designed only 17 for four percent, you would have an excess that wasn't 18 compensated in the reaction.

19 Q And that could be burned or it could renuit in 20 combustion?

21 A Like I say, I was not concerned because the four 22 percent reaction, even if you have seven and you put back 21 three, and it's still less than the flammability limit.

21 Q So, your opinion was that whatever amount the 25 recombiner worked on, it would be of benefit? In other words,

,A i' ,,

- GilCER 4 LORIA PtPORflNG SERVICE, INC. 1000 MARKET St H80. PA 17101 H00,234 2109 PA t 800 222 0LRS -

o .

49 0 1 it would bring it lower under the flammability limit?

2 A It would be fair to say that based on my information 3 at the time of the hydrogen in the Reactor Building, which 4 was four percent plus or minus, even one percent or two percent 5 higher would not be a concern for the recombiner.

6 Q Was there any fear or concern at that time about 7 a combustion or burning of hydrogen in the Reactor Building?

8 A As a result of hooking up the recombinert 9 Q Or activating equipment in the Reactor Building.

10 A I don't recall.

11 MR. WILSON: Objection. I think that's a compound u question there. I think you should get them one at a time.

BY MS. BARNABEI:

{ 13 11 Q I think your answer is you don't remember to either 15 one of them?

16 A Yes.

17 Q Was there some discussion at this meeting or in 18 this time frame in the afternoon of March 29th about core 19 damage?

20 A In the meeting with Dick Wilson, again to the best 21 of my recollection, he said that his directivos are that we z! assume that the core is damaged. Whether that was based on a 23 financial decision or on information that he has gathered 21 from before, I couldn't say.

wi Q When he said the core was damaged, what did you

= CtlC AR 4 LORIA REPORTING SERVICE,INC 1000 M ARKEf 57.. HOG. PA 17101 H90. 334 2109 P41400 222 CLR1 -

e 50 0 1 understand that to mean?

2 A Again, to the best of my recollection, a financial *--.

3 .you know, a financial loss from what I recall, that you lost 4 a core, that that's equal to X amount of dollars.

5 Q Well, what did that mean in the context of this 8 meeting? In other words, why was he telling you that in the 7 context of this meeting?

8 A Again, I don't recall exactly, but I would again --

9 Again, I don't remember. I would probably have to say that to it was something, you know, we're not looking to recover the l 11' core. In other words, we're not looking to restart the l

12 reactor in the immediate future because of this potential

( {; 13 core damage.

So, Mr. Wilson was essentially talking about core 14 Q 15 damage so severe that the reactor would not be restarted?

16 A In the immediate future, yes.

17 Q When you talk about immediate future, what are you

! 18 talking about?

l 19 A At that point, probably I thought something.like 20 weeks___or maybe_a coup 1e of. months._

21 Q What effect did that assessment of core damage have

\ 's /~

i j

22 on yourswork, your work and the otherspeople at this meeting?

N -N Well, one thing that came out 5f,the meeting is that

~

l 23 A N

N 24 there was no -- I ..was not ~to work on the steam. generators.-

. x ,.. .

l 25 In other words, there was no -- the steam generators became

.. x. .

A.

- 4ttete 4 Lesl4 NEPORffe84 bt#VICE.18eC. 1000 M4PittET Sf,.HGG P4 IF101 H94. 334 3109 PA 1400 833 6 tits =

l t

- _ _ __.- a