ML20134G165
| ML20134G165 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Harris  |
| Issue date: | 11/01/1984 |
| From: | Van Vo C AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20132C567 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-85-173 NUDOCS 8508230115 | |
| Download: ML20134G165 (259) | |
Text
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'CR20852.0 KSM/sjg 1
/ 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 BEFORE THE 3
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 4 i INVESTIGATIVE INTERVIEW l 5
6 Radisson Plaza Hotel Raleigh, North Carolina 7
Thursday, November 1, 1984 1:00 p.m.
)
9i PRESENT:
l 10 j i CHAN VAN VO, Interviewee 11 l j NRC Staff: ,
12 I LARRY L. ROBINSON, Investigator Office of Investigations s 13 Region II - Atlanta WILLIAM P. ANG, Inspector, NRC 14 ROBERT GUILD, ESQ.
15 i On behalf of Chan Van Vo.
g Also Present:
BETSY M. LEVITAS 17 '
18 19 l
20 21 22 23 24 V
. ""*"'{g j DR j 5 8508 4 )\l PM j,I EXHtBtT "(2) y4 p 11' Page
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1 PROCEEDINGS 2 MR. ROBINSON: Good afternoon, ladies and
[.. .
3 gentlemen. My name is Larry L. Robinson. I am an
, 4 investigator with the office of Investigations of the 5 Nuclear Regulatory Commission of the United States. The 6 purpose of the meeting this afternoon is to~ hear concerns 1
4 7 of Mr.'Chan Van Vo regarding the safety of the i
- 8 construction of the Shearon Harris Nuclear Power Plant.
9 Also regarding his allegations of harassment intimidation 10 by employees of Carolina Power and Light and also his 11 concerns regarding possible fraudulent documentation
(- 12 leading to material traceability questions. That is not s
13 all-inclusive, but those are some of the concerns that we j 14 are interested in.
15 The location of this interview is at the 16 Radisson Plaza Hotel, Raleigh, North Carolina. The date 17 of the interview is November 1st, 1984. Present at the i
k 18 interview are Mr. Chan Van Vo, former engineer for 19 Carolina Power and Light, formally employed at the Shearon 4
20 Harris nuclear power sitet and Mr. Robert Guild -- are you 7
, 21 officially affiliated with the Government?
i 22 MR. GUILD: I'm counsel for Mr. Van Vo and I'm a a
4 4
?
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1 representative of the Government Accountability Project. '
2 MR. ROBINSON: Mr. William P. Ang, an engineer ;
l f. \
with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and a 3
l
+
4 representative of the division of reactor safety, region 2. f 5 And Kathie S. Weller, court reporter. ;
i !
6 Mr. Vo, what I would like to do first, what I i 7 have here, is.a'16-page document that is purported to be !
E an affidavit that you submitted outlining your basic s
I 9 concerns. What I want you to do is to examine this t
, 10 document and see if it is in fact your affidavit. l i
11 MR. VO: Yes, I do have a copy. !
zs 12 MR. ROBINSON: If you would, just kind of go f
13 through it and make sure that it's -- any notes in the 14 column are notes that would have been placed there by NRC i
15 representatives having received the af fidavit. ;
16 MR. GUILD: Why don't you go page by page and
- e r
17 make sure it's all there. If you want to compare it to ,
18 your own copy to make sure it's a complete copy --
I 19 MR. VO: No, I remember.
s 20 MR. ROBINSON: Be.tsy, for the record, you're
,i 21 official affiliation?
- 22 MS. LEVITAS
- I have been helping with GAP and i
-- . ** o , //4^ Nges r:;s._ 2-- ,-- - _ - i
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1 the Intervenors.
2 MR. ANG: Are you affiliated with GAP or --
3 MS. LEVITAS: No I'm a volunteer, a professional 4 volunteer. -
5 MR. ROBINSON: Let the record reflect that .
6 Ms. Levitas is in the meeting to assist Mr. Guild at 7 Mr. Guild's direction.
8 MR. GUILD: While Chan is reading his affidavit 9 let me make a statement for the record. Larry, you and I 10 had a conversation the other day and part of the 11 conversation was sort of in terms of ground rules. I 12 informed Mr. Van Vo that the subject of the interview 13 would be essentially the items that you specified and that 14 is what I understood to be the Office of Investigations 15 interests and off the top in any event the harassment 16 intimidation, the documentation issues, and I think he's 17 prepared specifically to deal with the documentation 18- issues in particular. He's brought a number of documents 19 with him that I know he wants to share with you and I 20 think Chan told me he made Xeroxes of them so you can have 21 his copies.
m.
22 MR. ROBINSON: That's beautiful.
l 1
l D;H! BIT (?.4 page A of E A NE*
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't !
1 MR. ANG: Many of my questions -- could we get {
, 2 copies of some of the things he was referring to because I (. '
3 if we're going to inspect and investigate them we'd like 4 to have copies to work with. '
5 MR. GUILD: Otherwise what I said to him was, 6 Bill, there were a number of other things referred to in 7 his affidavit. 'He brought some' documents with him, he may '!
i 8 have more. To the extent that you get to an area of i
9 interest that requires some more detail he'll be able to o ;
i 10 flag that, I assume, and say I can get you some more i 4 i 11 documents or some more detail on that. ,
g 12 MR. ANG: If possible we'd-like to in the same 13 subject area try to get everything so that once we look at
~
i r 14 his -- we look at overything rather than in parts and ?
15 5 pieces and coming back and forth several times. More t i'
a 16 efficient that way. j 17 MR. GUILD: We've had limited time to prepare so !
. 18 I've informed Chan that he should concentrate on the areas i 19 that I understood we were going tb be talking about. If 20 we need more detail I would like to have the opportunity I t 21 to get you that additional information. -
l 22 MR. ANG: Sure you always have that.
l I
i EXHIBIT ($ !
Page d-- d j
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.g 1 MR. GUILD: The other thing we talked about was 2 we understood that this interview is going to be
(
3 transcribed and a copy would be made available to 4 Mr. Van Vo and myself. ~
5 MR. ROBINSON: I'll make a copy available to 6 Mr. Van Vo.and he can do what he wishes to with the
- 7. transcript. ,
8 (Discussion off the record.)
9 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, Mr. Vo, this is an accurate 10 representation of your affidavit? ,
11 MR. VO: Yes.
r 12 MR. ROBINSON: Mr. Vo, do you have any 13 objections to being sworn to the testimony you're going to 14 give this afternoon? '
15 MR. VO: No objection. I_only have one I would 16 like to-point to the newspaper refer to Mr. Vo and I would 17 like to give it to you. My recommendation, and here's the la copy of the CP&L assignment, how they put the pressure and 19 intimidation my job.
20 MR. GUILD: Chan, the newspaper article you 21 identified, you told these gentlemen about before we 22 started on the record, but I think the concern that you i
( 'O 7
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\
1 mentioned was a quotation of a NRC staff lawyer that was
_ 2 what you were concerned about?
3 MR. VO: No, I would like feedback here CP&L l 4 recommendation all of the recommendation official 5 promotion.
6- MR. ROBINSON: Commendations?
7 MR. VO: Recommendations.
8 MR. ROBINSON: Okay.
9 MR. ANG: If I could understand you, you wish to {
10 clarify this by giving your CP&L recommendations that were 11 given to you as part of that or --
12 MR. VO: Yeah, to show what the CPEL when they j t
13 terminate my job. Here's the probationary status.
14 MR. ROBINSON: Are you providing this for us to 15 keep?
16 MR. VO: Yes.
17 MR. ANG: The only thing I hope you understand I 18 don't believe we're here for this.
19 MR. VO: I know that, yes. ;
20 MR. ANG: We're here to look into the items you f
21 sent to us on the affidavit and we'd like to clarify some i t
22 of the things in there. !
i i
.~ cuelT (4 Page d
1
. I 20852.0 8 -
KSW 1 MR. GUILD: The concern I heard him express !
2 before we went on the record, Mr. Bath, the 17RC staff 3 counsel, is quoted in the Raleigh newspaper saying we're-4 investigating Mr. Van Vo and I think he's expressed to me '
5 and you all that NRC ought to be investigating his 6 concerns and not him and he has some unease about why they f.
l 7 are focusing on him and not his concerns. j
)
8 MR. ANG: It's a fair question. We are NRC, but 9 we're investigating your concerns now.
10 , MR. ROBINSON: I understand Mr. 'Vo':s concern and 11 I accept the newspaper article and his recommendations for l
( 12 our information. Does this have anything to do with -- do 13 you have any reluctance to swearing to the information 14 you're giving us this afternoon?
15 MR. VO: Yeah, that's a part because they refer 16 to that to show that the promotion, you know, in i 17 contradiction of what the probationary status , f 18 MR. GUILD: I don't believe he understands the [
19 question about swearing. We discussed this a moment ago 20 and we understood this was going to be a transcribed i 21 interview but in order to encourage a freer exchange of f 22 information so I don't have to jump in all the time as his I TV' J t BIT (2)
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I I
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1 counsel the interview would be unsworn.
2 MR. ROBINSON: We can do it that way if you 3 would prefer it that way Mr. Vo. You have a problem with 4 swearing to the information you're going to give us today? -
5 MR. VO: What do you mean?
6 MR. ROBINSON: Swearing that what you're going a
i 7 to tell us is the truth.
. l I
8 MR. GUILD: Let's clarify this right now. Larry, 9 when we agreed on a ground rule the ground rule was 10 clearly that this was to be a unsworn statement. That's 11 for very clear reasons and the reasons don't have anything l
12 to do with the confidence that you're going to attribute l 13 to what Mr. Van Vo is going to say. They have to do with 14 the formality of the document you're producing and the 15 fact that he has a legal claim pending against the 16 Carolina Power and Light Company, the fact that he has 17 sought to testify before the Atomic Safety and Licensing 18 Board.
19 Because he has legal interests involved in what he may 20 say to you today, if it's your position that you want a 21 sworn interview then we at each point will have to weigh 22 the questions that are put an'd I'll have to have an EXHIBIT (4 Page - --q -g //4- Pages
_ _ _ _ . . _ _ m _ __ _ _ _
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1 opportunity to advise Mr. Van Vo about the significance of '
2 . question as it bears on his legal rights and his claims, 3 the Department of Labor claim the operating license claim:
i 4 I have an obligation to protect his legal interests. -
5 That's why I'm here.
r
- 6 I thought we had already plowed this ground and you 7 understood my. interests in trying to have this be an J
8 informal and freer exchange of information where I would 9 not have to be weighing each question for those purposes.
10 Has nothing to do with the truthfulness or veracity of his 11 answers but if you insist on having a sworn statement r
12 which is inconsistent with our discussion I would like the 13 record to reflect that and we'll have to be more i 14 cumbersome about this so I can look out for his legal 15 interests.
}
16 MR. ROBINSON: We didn't talk about the 17 cumbersomeness of the discussion as it related to being a 18 sworn statement or not, we just talked about free flow of i
19 information and feeling of tenseness, you might say, and 20 discomfort. We didn't talk about the mechanics of you l -
21 having to advise him of the weight of each question as it 1
22' relates to his appeal before Labor and the Atomic Safely 4
EXHIBIT (Z)
- Page .lf- d
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1 appeal. We didn't talk about that type of mechanics when 2 we conversed.
i 3
My purpose in -- our procedure when interviewing an 4 alleger for the initial time is to take a sworn statement. -
5 Now as we talked, I'm not going to insist that we take a 6 sworn statement, not at all, but to me it would be a 7 preferable thing. -I t has nothing -- and this also has 8 nothing to to do with the veracity of the statement. But 9 I just want you to understand that for the record too.
10 MR. GUILD: Let's go off the record a second.
11 (Discussion off the record.)
12 MR. ROBINSON: Let the record reflect that the 13 statement taken from Mr. Vo this afternoon will be an 14 informal statement, an interview in the normal course of 15 investigative business rather than a sworn statement.
16 Okay, Chan, I would like to kind of start in the 17 middle or toward the end of the affidavit.
18 MR. VO: Yes.
19 Going toward your conccrns about MR. ROBINSON: I 20 purchase order.
(,
l 21 MR. GUILD: Chan, do you have a copy of your 22 affidavit that's yours? I 1
EXHIBIT (2)
Page I CI-
20852.0 12 KSW 1- MR. ROBINSON: 21022. 11, item No. 18. We were a
2 talking about the speed letter of July 18 in which he 3 completed his Hanger Phase II verification checklists and 4
4 submitted these by speed letter to Fuller and Willett and '
5 we started talking about the problem of material 6 traceability. I'm interested, particularly interested in 7 your comments in the. affidavit about purchase order 21022.
i 8 EMR . VO: Yes.
9 MR. ROBINSON: Let me try to understand where 10 you were'in the purchasing process at that time, okay?
11 MR. VO: Yes.
12 MR. ROBINSON: At this time, were you yourself
)
13 writing purchase orders?
14 MR. VO: No, sir.
i 15 MR. ROBINSON: Go ahead.
16 MR. VO: I would like to point out at that time 17 refer to NRC Meeting No. 400-41-83-20 was issued on June '
18 10, 1983, and with the hand note from- Mr. John York, NRC 19 and my supervisor Mr. Alec Fuller, with his hand note 4
20 assigned me to work with the CP&L QA surveillance on
[ 21 seismic to perform with the investigation' department. l l
i 22 MR. ANG: Was this as a result of John York's l
l l
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20852.0 , 13 KSW L
1 item?
2 MR. VO Yes.
f 3 MR. GUILD: Did you show the gentleman the 4 'eeting minutes?
m 5 Yes, you have. '
6 MR. VO: That's right here.
7 MR. ROBINSON: My main concern here,.Chan, is 8 the use of purchase order 21022 after it was voided. You 9 said it was used after it was voided.
10 MR. VO: I don't know at that time I do not know 11 that PO was void.
12 MR. GUILD: He didn't know at the time he 13 started this it was void or existed but he'll explain to 14 you what -- how he learned what its status was.
15 MR. VO: Mr. Fuller introduced to me with 16 Mr. Buck Williams, CP&L QA engineer, and he was a 17 supervisor for QA surveillance at that time to work with 18 me. And Mr. Buck Williams referred to Alec Fuller's 19 request, you know, showing the note, but Mr. Buck Williams 20 do different ways he say I do my way and you help me. I 21 say I try as I could and he asked me to pull now select 50 22 packages, hanger pack 4ges being, you know, completely s
EXHIBIT (9 pse. 4iL d A N "
20852.0 14 KSW Sp:
1 Phase II inspection, refer to work procedure 110 revision 4 2 8.
3 MR. ANG: These were randomly selected?
4- MR. VO: Yes. -
5 MR. ANG: Buck Williams or you selected them?
6 MR. VO: That means I take from the file to the 7 table, I believe.
8 MR. ANG: Who selected them, you or Buck 9 Williams?
10 MR. VO Buck Williams and his people they 11 select 12 from 50 by random selection.
12 MR. ANG: You pulled out 50 and Buck Williams 13 picked 12 out of those? '
14 MR. VO: Yes.
15 MR. AUG Go on.
16 MR. VO: And then we been investigate, you know, 17 I just go with them because I'm field engineer I know ;
18 where the location of the hanger and I'm go with them show 19 to them in case, you know, the QA surveillance they raise 20 up some problem, if I could prevail on the basic technical 21 to say, you know, that power plant is all right by to I:
ij i
22 improve, you know, by calculation or by something else, l
l EXHIBIT (1) l Page d
20852.0 15 KSW 1 and I did not see anything all right.
2 MR. ROBINSON: You did not see anything wrong.
3 MR. VO: Whatever they meant. The termination 4 is right to me, is nothing wrong, and about two weeks *
- 5. perform I think with them and they have taken note from 6 each hanger and then, you know, I'm asking Mr. Buck 7' Williams give me his notes, it is copy of, you know, the 8 efficiency, and then I go back in my office, I make --
9 create that form, and the speed letter, you know, report 10 to my supervisor and my boss about the deficiency.
11 MR. ANG: .Before you get too far you say you I' 12 looked at the QA surveillance findings and --
13 MR. VO: No, I'm going _with them.
14 MR. ANG: And as they find things you're 15 evaluating for technical significance?
16 MR. VO: Yes.
17 MR. ANG: And you found nothing wrong, or did 18 you find things wrong and you accepted them?
19 MR. VO: I agree with them whatever they found.
20 MR. ANG: Agree that they were wrong or --
21 MR. VO: They were wrong, sir.
22 MR. ANG: Okay. Please go on.
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1 MR. VO: And then I go back to my office and
. 2 create a form and the report to my boss and my direct
- ~
t 3 supervisor, Mr. Alec Fuller, is one of them.
4 MR.'ANG: You reported all the surveillance 5 findings.
6 MR. VO: Yes, including my form 3 I create that i 7 form and my note'and OS surveillance note attached.
8 MR. ANG: Were any nonconformances generated i
9 after that?
10 MR. VO: That's an office report to my 11 supervisor and a QA different organization.
12 MR. ANG: Did QA generate any nonconformances as 13 a result of this.
14 MR. VO: Yes.
15 MR. ANG: You've got copies of those.
16 MR. VO: Yes.
17 MR. ANG: Did you write up any nonconformances?
18 MR. VO: No, sir, I'm a field engineer. I'm L 19 technical support.
20 MR. AMG You don't write up nonconformances.
21 MR. VO: I don't have a right to do that, sir.
22 MR. ANG: That's what you might have heard or l
e i l
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-- mF.XHIBIT (2)
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20852.0 17 XSW N l 1 thought, but normally everybody on site has to write
, 2 nonconformances if they see. '
(
3 MR. VO: It is CP&L policy. I'm field engineer 4 I'm just technical support and if I find something wrong '
5 in the field only one thing I have right to issue is speed ,
6 letter to my supervisor.
t 7 MR. ROBINSON: Did your supervisor tell you that 8 that's all you have? '
9 !
MR. VO: Yes he asked me if you want to talk to 10 NRC on site I got to let him know what subject. I 11 MR. ANG: He told you that?
I 12 MR. VO: Yes. h 13 MR. ROBINSON: How about if you want to talk to t
14 CP&L CI group? !
15 MR. VO: Yeah, I do have right to talk to them.
16 MR. ROBINSON: You could talk to them without .
17 necessarily talking to your supervisor.
18 MR. VO: Yes.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Maybe I'm jumping ahead a little '
20 bit here, but I want to get to this use of this voided 21 purchase order number, okay?
22 MR. VO: Yes.
6 EXHlBIT #4 Page / I d ,1
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! i 1 MR. ROBINSON: Why do -- do you know why this j 2 number was used after it was voided?
I l 3 MR. VO: I really don't, sir.
- It was back in is 4 1980 I been, you know, doing, say, order, seismic material, [
5 and refer to seismic specification was issued by Ebasco.
1 1
6 They have a seismic specification to refer to seismic i .- .,
7 specification what type material, What property material
! 8 i
should be here for seismic and what should not be here. '
j 9 I have been there a year and I know exactly, you know, t [
10 particular seismic when I issue the purchasing order by me 1
and I specify, refer to seismic specification like a 11 12 stainless steel pipe and, you know, what is DM standard 13 requirement and what type 314 or 316 stainless steel pipe 14 and what documentation required for o material, quality 1:
1 15 material, and then I sign and then my supervisor approve, !
a t 16 then goes through a routine to the QA where they are up to l 17 L
the high level management then go down to purchasing 18 department to order material. h j 19 MR. ROBINSON: 1 Do you know Why that purchase )
i 20 order number was used on the documentations? Do you have
! 21 any reason to believe that it was intentionally used,
~
t 22 wrong fully?
- j -
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l 1 MR. VO: I told you at that time I don't know. 0
, 2 Unless, you know, after.
1 f
3 MR. ROBINSON: Do you know now?
4 i
4 MR. VO Yeah, I know now because after that me
'S and the QS surveillance, Mr. Vincent, he asked me how to I 6 !
find out the documentation of the PO number 21022. I said
, 7 by a procedure _ when any O material allow to release for 8 construction should be in QA vault and we go into QA vault i
9 together to search where the documentation of that PO 10 number. .
11 We have been about half a day to search and we couldn't, t.
12 you know, see any documentation in the QA vault. Then 13 Mr. Vincent asked me how about next step where we're going.
f; 14 I said best way we go to purchasing department. And we 15 went together to the purchasing. department and I have l-16 because I have, you know, due to in the plant I have so i 17 many friends and at that time Mr. Robert Babb, we ask him, 18 you know, I introduce to Mr. Vincent and I ask him why we !
1 19 come here for and we asking about a PO 21022, and Mr. Babb !
20 look on his document about, you know, control record, he i
21 say to us, that PO 21022 and 21021 are void.
22 '
MR. ROBINSON: Do you know when they were voided.
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1 1 MR. VO: They void a long time. That's been 2 about 1980.
b ~
3 MR. ROBINSON: I mean, when you went to the 4 purchasing department. ~
5 MR. VO: Yes.
6 MR. ROBINSON: And they told you then that that 7 PO was voided. . '
8 MR. VO: Yes.
9 MR. ROBINSON: How long ago from then had it 10 been voided? Do you have any idea? i 11 MR. VO No, they just said void. They meant i 12 the termination.
They never have order material reflect I 13 to the PO number. I i
Say on their record void meaning they 14 don't have any record at all. ,
15 MR. ANG: What was PO 21022 for?
16 -
MR. VO That's some kind of material like -- +
17 MR. ANG:
i Baseboards, sheet metal?
18 MR. VO: Yes.
19 MR. ANG: Was it Ebasco ordered -- I 20 MR. VO: No.
I 22 MR. VO: Yes.
t Page - t
20852.0 KSW 21 1 MR. ANG:
Just plain 8367
, 2 MR. VO: Yes, 836.
3 MR. ROBINSON: Do you know if PO 21022 was 4 replaced by another PO? '
5 MRe VO: No, sir, I don't know about that.
6 MR. ROBINSON: You don't know?
7 MR. VO's No', sir.
8 MR. ROBINSON: Why do you think -- who was using 9
this PO number after it was voided? Improperly?
10 MR. VO: The reason -- I'm piping engineer; I'm 11 not hanger.
P
.- When I start with CP&L, I deal with piping 12
.. and I transfer to the hanger department in April 1982 and 13 that type material had been issued back in 1980, you know, 14 and I don't know who, you know, what kind formation and 15 what type of documentation allow to hanger department 16 issue, you know, steel plate to the field for hanger 17 construction reflected that PO number. I do not know, 18 know about that source.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Why do you think -- I'm asking 20 for your opinion -- why do you think that purchase order 21 was number was used after it was voided?
22 MR. VOi I
Miscoordination between the CP&L g
20852.0 MW 22 1
department, like, you know, in my experience the CP&L is 2 not very -- have a good coordination. Right now 3
mechanical department, they never have real good ;
1 4 .l coordination with electric or purchasing or they are 5
really separate together and that's one reason they lack, f 6 you know, coordination or communication. i 7
When the people issue the PO they talked, that PO 8 material outside. i If they did, you know, check back with 9
purchasing and they should not issue that material to the !
i 10 field, that's why I'm taught.
11 MR. ROBINSON:
Do I understand you to say that
[ 12 purchasing would have told the field that -- that.when 13 they first . issued that PO they would have told the field i 14 that <
that was the PO to order the material on and then 15 purchasing cancelled that PO and didn't tell the field and I 16 the field just kept using that PO? l f
17 MR. VO: Yes. ,
18 MR. ROBINSON: Do you have any indication --
19 know what I mean, indication? I q
20 MR. VO Yes.
I 21 MR. ROBINSON: Do you have any indication that f
22 anyone from CP&L intentionally put that PO number on EXHIBIT W 4 Page N
i I
20852.0 KSW 23 i l
documents after it was voided trying for any reason, 1
2 trying to order different grade steel under that PO number
(, ,
3 or to destroy the traceability of the material, do you have any indication of that, or was it a mistake?
4 ^^
5 MR. VO: k No, because after, you know, refer to
- 6 my report to Mr. Alec Fuller and he been, you know, messed f
7 on'me because I reflect to that and about my report in the
~
\ - l 8 morning and aftern. con he called me back in his office, he 9
i say, something lied, I don't know, he's so mad, you don't 10 know how to do the job. He's an employee down to the l-11 warehouse and he found that PO documentation was existing ,
} 12 in the warehouse.
13 MR. ROBINSON: That's what he told you.
[
14 MR. VO: Yes.
15 MR. ANG: Did he show it to you?
4 16 MR. VO: No, sir.
I 17 MR. ANG: Did you ever see it. "
i.
18 MR. VO: No , sir. And I have my feedback, I say '
19 to Mr. Alec Fuller, I say, sir, if you say so. I don't '
20 know how to feed back to you, and the best way, you know, 21 wait until the official efficiency report from the QA 22 surveillance.
EXHIBIT gg (z) .//+ Pages p,,,
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1 MR. ROBINSON: Do you think that there is any
,r 2 inferior grade steel in that plant now as a result, as a it~'
3 result of this mix-up or the use of this purchase order
! 4 number? '
5 MR. VO: Yes, yes, and besides that, you know, 6 so many steel, you know, being upgrade and accepted 7 without documentation. -
0 8 MR. ROBINSON: Upgraded and substituted without 9 documentation? '
e i
10 MR. VO: Yes.
11 MR. ROBINSON: And I mean specifically j
( 12 pertaining to that PO number?
13 MR. VO: No, beside that PO. -
t 14 MR. ROBINSON: In addition to that PO number? j 15 MR. ANG: How was the DDR finally resolved? >
t 16 i MR.-VO: Yes, DDR 1775, 1795, and NRC 255. .
. 18 MR. VO: Yes, and DDR 1776 and DDR 1784 right 19 here refer to that_DDR, the PO number.
I
! 20 MR. ROBINSON: So can you say that on any -- l
! 21 were there specific hangers transferred in these DDRs? l 4
22 MR. ANG: Yes?
I EXHIBIT 00
.Pase .Ei8 d M
- 20852.0 25 KSW l MR. VO: Yes.
2 MR. ROBINSON: Can you say that any of those 3 specific hangers had inferior grade steel?
1 4 MR. VO: Yes. That's the copy of the hanger for 5 component coolant system.
6 MR. ANG: These are not completed DDRs. The disposition and ruling are not here yet.
7 8 MR. VO: No, at that time, Mr. Buck Williams 9 just gave me that copy.
10 MR. ANG: You don't have completed copies, i
11 MR. VO: No, sir. r 12 MR. GUILD: Can we ask -- as we go through this 13 there are some things that are helpful to us to understand ,
t 14 more fully what the resolution of these issues are, if you l 15 identify these, the completed DDRs, that show the recent !
i 16 resolution, we'd ask you to make a copy available to us so !
17 we'll have the answer to that question as well. i 18 MR. ROBINSON: Well, I don't know whether we can 19 make that promise. We'll, you know, during the course of-i 20 the investigation, we'll certainly attempt to resolve any_ !
21 questions of any incompleted DDRs, but unless I see a need 22 in the investigation to submit evidence that I've obtained
' EXHIBIT 4)
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20852.0 KSW 26 l
in my investigation outside, I probably won't do that.
2 MR. GUILD: We'd ask you to do it, and my 3 concern is this --
4 MR. ANG: We might not even make copies of them I 5 if we go over and look at the copies of the DDRs and we 6 have no real need for getting copies of them --
7 -
MR. GUILD: Let me put it this way. I think -
8 Mr. Van Vo is committed to cooperating with the NRC Staff 9 trying to investigate these concerns.
I've expressed to 10 you, Larry, the fact that I've had difficulty with the 11 Region 2 staff and being responsive to concerns expressed 12 by individuals. And frankly --
13 MR. ANG: In what manner? i 14 MR. GUILD: Being responsive.to investigative 15 concerns.
16 MR. ROBINSON: Let's not get into a contest 17 about responsiveness right now.
18 MR. GUILD: i Let me just state my position about i 1
19 this particular point.
Mr. Van Vo is concerned about the 20 safety of the plant.
He's concerned that the NRC takes 21 the information that he provides to them and that you do a 22 responsible job with it.. i I
0 I
l
.l EXHIBIT Page 2(3 4 (2) N W
~.
20852.0 27 k'SW 1 MR. ANG: I -- we certainly intend to.
2 MR. GUILD: But in the same fashion, he raises a 3 concern to CP&L and gets no response or feedback to his 4 concern. He and I both are interested in seeing that the 5
Region 2 staff, OI, do a responsible job in investigating 6 his concerns, and here's a first point where he has part 7 of a document, it's a basis in part for his concern. A 8 logical investigative step is to look at the rest of the 9 document. You may be satisfied by looking at the rest of 10 the document, 11 MR. ANG: May or may not be.
12 MR. GUILD:
It seems to me a fair and reasonable 13 request for 14r. Van Vo and me as his lawyer to make sure 14 that you share the results of your investigation in that 15 regard.
16 MR. ANG: We definitely intend to tell 17 Mr. Van Vo what our findings are. That's a matter of 18 public record.
19 MR. GUILD: What I'm asking is a very clear and t 20 specific request. It's simply a matter of making a Xerox 21 copy of a document that you ultimately are going to look i
22 at so we'll have the same evidence that you have to draw a i EXHistT 04 4 Page M d
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i 1 conclusion from. You may look at that DDR resolution and 2 say there's no problem, and we may look at it and say,
- (
i 3 well, there are all these unanswered questions. The way 4 of being responsible it seems to me, and putting our cards .' '
5 on the table, which is what you're expecting us to do, the 6 way of being sort of evenhanded is for you to do the same 7 thing and on a simple matter like that say, we'll show you .
8 the results of our investigation. Here's the DDR and show a -
9 us what they have done.
i +
10 It seems to me to be onesided about this to simply say, 11 i Mr. Van Vo, we're interested in looking at your concerns. I 12 Tell us everything you know so we can investigate it, but 13 we make no commitment to share the fruits of our -
i 14 investigation. Seems unfair.
15 MR. ROBINSON: How many investigative agencies 16 do you know that make that commitment 7 17 MR. GUILD: That's neither here nor there. The
. t
[
18 fact of the matter is --
19 MR. ROBINSON: It's not neither here nor there.
20 How many investigative agencies do you know that normally 21 respond to people that come to them with allegations or 22 concerns by during the course of the investigation J
t ee-(
' c m istT (24
[ age N O .
I i
20852.0 29
S W l
1 providing copies of any evidence that they obtain prior to 2 completion of the investigation?
3 MR. GUILD: I think a responsible agency should
. 4 do that. ' !
5 MR. ROBINSON: You're certainly entitled to your
- 6 opinion. ~
i t'
i 7 MR. GUILD:
It'seems t5 me to make the burden
, 8 solely on Mr. Van Vo to present evidence which the NRC 9
staff can do with what it will and not feel a commitment 10 to be responsible to him and say, here's what we've done.
1 11 We've honored our commitments.
12 Let me state this as clearly as I can. As I have said,
- 13 Mr. Van Vo, frankly, is skeptical about CP&L's resolution :
}
14 of his concerns. He gave them an opportunity to deal with 15 these issues when he worked for them. They didn't. He 16 doesn't have any particular confidence in the NRC staff to 17 look at his concerns. I've encouraged him to bring them 18 to you.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Do you have any confidence in the 1
20 NRC staff to look into your concerns, Mr. Vo?
{
21 MR. VO: To answer you, no, sir. To be honest I
22 with you, I say no. The reason I have been, look the !
l EXHIBIT Page er</ of. 02)d.41 Pa885
I 1
20852.0 '
"SU 30 1
history of Zimmer, Wolfe, and particular agent 3 and 4, I 2 do say they do a very good job and -- the reason Zimmer.
-3 like when they suspend are raised up about nonconforming.
4 The approximately I think 4200 deficiencies, you know, 5
3 being identified by Zimmer, and that the reason, you know, 6 the utility deal back and forth, same mistake and it is 7
Zimmer suspending their license back in 1982 by NRC Region 8 3.
9 MR. ANG: Why do you not have confidence in 10 Region 27 -
11 MR. VO: I read the article from Mr. --
I think, i ,-
12 you know, I got it around somewhere. Give me a second.
13 MR. ANG: To be frank with you, I'm very proud 14 of Region 2.
15 MR. GUILD: -This would be an interesting 16 discussion to have on an extended basis, but let me be 1
17 clear on my points, and I am sure he can show you what he 1 1
18 has.
19 MR. VO: I remember, you know, in one article I 20 said the problem now by Mr. Stello, James O'Reilly, the i 21 problems in construction are real.
- I exciting for the 22 article because my performance, you know, particularly-the I
EXHlBtT (4 Page-chg //4_ Pesea i
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20852.0 31 "SW l
high' technology nuclear power plant we play with, you know, 2 uranium 235,.we prevent some radiation, and how to, you 3 know, to use the proper material to make sure adequate, 4 you know, installation, and refer to TMI, two accidents 5 back in 1979, and I do concern that, and then I read the 6 ~ article from Mr. Jim O'Reilly.
4 7 Now I can tell why I do no't care on Region 2.- Like now, 8 see, like CP&L, when it is beginning until now from the 9 beginning, they build the plant until June 1983, about 10 1400 or 1500 DDR being identified, and besides DDR, we can 11 say that's nonconformance, and how many NRC steel 12 nonconformance and how many DDR, and still nonconforming s
13 and are being, you know, identified from beginning to that 14 time.
15 And from June, 1983, the DDR number jump up to 2400.
16 Only six months to December 1983, only six months, a 17 .thousand DDRs being reading on the nuclear power plant, 1 18 and Mr. Vincent, when he issues these DDR, and one month
, l 19 later. Right now, I don't know where Mr. Vincent, I don't 20 know what kind of pressure was put on him. I don't know 21 where he was, and I know one person, you know, in last l 4
22 January, about January or February of 1984, a security Page e==/- MW
20852.0 32 KSW l inspector, is nickname " Tank" and his last name is Tink,
,_ 2 they call it his nickname --
3 MR. ANG: Tank, big guy probably.
l 4 MR. VO: That's why I say, I really don't know, '
5 and his last name is Ward, W-a-r-d. If you don't follow 6 my pronounciation, I'm sorry, because I'm really sorry 7 about that.
8 And one month, he been issue about a thousand NCR, only
! 9 one month, and then they try to get him out of, you know, 10 inspection. You can check on that, and you can take away 11 Mr. Vincent now and only six months from the 1500 number
, 12 jumped to 2400 number, and I don't know how many of them 13 are dispositions.
14 MR. ROBINSON: And this is the reason you don't 15 have confidence in NRC, or this the reason you don't have
- 16 confidence in CP&L7 17 MR. VO
- The NRC should be, you know, tolerant 18 to NRC -- to CP&L due to the building of the nuclear power 19 plant. I guarantee with you if right now you can because 20 of very glowing information, you know, _about last week, 21 right now 50 percent documentation, 50 percent component 1
22 and equipment, you know, on the RST program transferred 1
- , q , *- w v
i 20852.0 33 1
-KSW ,
1 1 from construction to start up. It's without QA 2 documentation: That's information given to me due to the e 3 conversation with my friend. He was a nuclear engineer 4 and right now he is still a CP&L employee. '
5 MR. ANG: How many plants have you worked at, j 6 Mr. Vo? h i
7 MR. VO: Only one plant, sir.
} 8 MR. ANG: Many of the things you're talking I 9
about different people treat different ways, and many 10 people don't call everything NCRs. Some systems call them 11 DDR, RVN, all kinds of different names. Still winds up as h 12 a report of nonconforming or discrepancy.
13 MR. VO: Maybe I'm wrong --
14 MR. ROBINSON: I think I'm going to have to cut 15 it short right now. I understand that you have a lack of i
16 confidence that NRC will in good faith investigate your 17 allegations. I'm going to say that the NRC-OI will not f
- 18 routinely supply copies of evidence and documentation that j,
L 19 they obtain in their investigation during the course of b
20 the investigation to Mr. Vo and you, Mr. Guild.
l
[ 21 Now, we can we came here to listen to Mr. Vo's concerns.
22 If Mr. Vo has a problem with relating these concerns now l l
1 l
d ey L.HISIT p E c. (z) W Peta
t f
f 20852.0 34 VSW 1 because he doesn't trust us, then I guess we're at an
(
2 impasse. I hope that we can resolve'that impasse. ,
s 3 MR. VO: Excuse me a second, sir. I not trust - , , _ j 4 I couldn't make that determination. .I I say -- you know, I 5
couldn't count, you know, on the Region 2 performance, you i
6 know. Doesn't mean trust. You are investigator. You l
7 know, you have a right to do whatever, you know --
8 MR. ROBINSON: I'm not saying we certainly don't 9 have a right to do whatever we want to do. We will. All 10 we can say to you, sir, is that -- and you too, Mr. Guild, 11 is, we'll conduct a thorough investigation of the I
( 12 allegations and complaints brought forth here.
13 MR. VO: I would like to point out one thing, t
14 sir.
You see, I have a problem, you see why, is something i 15 particularly mf personal. When I left my country in 1975, !
16 sir, I left behind two kids, sir, okay. I come here. I 17 do labor work. I do anything. I, you know, I cannot l
18 conversation with your people. I being try to perform 19 back, you know, to support my children or to, you know,
{
20 that's why I try to perform a good man to be, turn to be I 21 American citizenship by naturalization, and the reason I 22 -turn my name because I -- no one can help me, only myself.
t
{
Ey.HlBlT (4 Page N OI
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l 20852.0 35 :
KSW' 1
I want to go back over there to rescue my kids, and my 2 daughter, she got to escape back in 1981 by herself, 17 3 years old.
4 The reason I went down to Mr. McDuffy, senior -
5 construction vice-president, I show what happened. I cry 6 with him. I say, I have been so much, you know, so much I 7 misery borne in my life. I don't want no more. I came 8 here to find freedom, to find the VC don't put me in, you 9 know, reeducation camp or to kill me in some way because 10 I'm in South Vietnam Army, and I cry with him. I say, sir, 11 if you think the CP&L don't need me no more, please lay me ;
( 12 off. I said it that way. Because I need the money. I f
13 can join unemployment to serving another employer.or, you .
14 I know, I show to him what happened, you know, to me.
15 He say, you good man. Go back to work. I cry with him.
i 16 I say, that's my personal, but when I come back to work I i
17 i and find out, Mr. Chan you do wrong, the wrong movement, I l
18 say, why, he's a very good man. He say, you wait and see.
~
i 19 ,And when I come back, you know, the pressure increase.
20 I You know, two years I kill myself, and when I do a job. ;
21 my personal item is, I try the part I have.
, I explained k 22 to Mr. McDuffy I have two objectives. The first objective, 0
we EXHIBIT 02) '
Page N OI L
i 4
3 20852.0 36 I K5d i
, 1 you know, I feel any employee under CP&L, same house. We 2 had to protect, you know, our name and we have whatever 3 the CP&L, you know, reflected concern. We have to try to 4 deal in cost effective manner, and I do that, and Mr. '
5 McDuffy, he told me, Chan, do you know, I build, you know, 6 the Robinson plant only four years. I said, that's very n
7 good, sir, but I know it's a very -- something is wrong in i 8 here. That's why he told me, and I trust him. I trust
, 9 him.
e j 10 I come back to work and the result, and now, you know, i t
J 11 he's a big man, and, you know, anything -- I come first, h' 12 you know, to anyone is Charles because without Charles we i
13 can't do nothing, sir.
j 14 t MR. ROBINSON: I understand your situation, Chan.
, 15 I understand that. ,
- i 16 MR. VO
- Now finally, like Mr. Guild see the i 17 document, about three months ago the immigration office, I l
18 have one son left. He's 16 years old, one more year they 19 will drop-him. I met request from -- I wrote the letter '
l 20 to request Mr. Jesse Helms' son to interfere with the Viet I 21 Cong let reunite family. The document had_already been h p
22 performed, and I have documentation from the U.S. Embassy I
, I f
EXHISIT (2)
Page N' Oi !
l 20852.0 37 "SW i
i 1 in Thailand. l They asked me to re-sign the affidavit to ;
1 2 support my child.
?
3 I'm without job. I still hold document on my hand say, 4 if you don't do that we drop the case, and now my son one '1 5 more year, you know, he'll be here, and to be honest with 6 you, only one thing I chose this case, and if finally 7 nothing else, I'm going. I have bean served my life. I'm 8 45 years old. That's enough. I couldn't make myself 9 serve the way like I should be, and best way I know. I 10 don't know what I'm doing. I might be able to go 11 somewhere. I can't go back home or somewhere because I 12 can't, you know, over here just the power -- CP&L very 13 powerful. They have a pac organization. They have any 14 kind organization. I just one person.
15 MR. ROBINSON: I hope that you don't perceive 16 your existence here as hopeless, Mr. Vo. I would like to 17 think that this country would give you the same 18 opportunity as any other citizen to excel and exceed. I 19 can only speak for myself and regarding my conduct of this 20 investigation, that you can trust me as --
21 MR. VO: Yes. Thank you very much, sir.
22 MR. ROBINSON: As another man to -- l EXHtBITf:)"g4.
Page M p
i 20852.0
_KSW 38 1 MR. VO: With both of you I'm trust. When I'm 2 trust I'm talking. Before I say my feeling.
(
Due to many 3
articles, you know, I have been, you know, reading, and I 4 to be honest with you I do not care about Region 2.
- 5 MR. GUILD: I want to say I think it's important 6 that Mr. Van Vo express what he has to you because I think
~
7 you ought to understand where he's coming from. My only 8 point in raising this issue is it's such a simple matter.
9 If you want to restore some small measure of confidence in 10 me and in Mr. Van Vo, it's a simple matter of saying we'll 11 do something unusual in this case. Maybe it's not normal 12 policy. We'll make a Xerox copy of a document to show you 13 what it is we look at. End of discussion. If you don't 14 want to, fine. It seems to me it's just such a simple 15 matter that would allow someone like us to be able to look 16 at what you do and say, gee, those guys did a 17 straightforward and honest job. That's all we're asking.
18 But I think you know --
19 MR. VO: I'm sorry to interrupt you.
20 MR. ROBINSON: There's no need to apologize.
21 You did not interrupt at all.
. Where were we?
22 MR. ANG: PO 21022.
ExatstT(24 Page M t
- 20852.0 39 kSW l
1 MR. VO: I have about 20 speed letters.
2 MR. ROBINSON: One question about the materials 3 that were supposedly received on PO 21022. Did you or 4 anyone ever find what PO those materials were received on? '
5
- MR. VO: You see, after, you know, that is a 6 special assignment. After my report, I don't have right 7 to go'back to do this job. '
8 MR. ROBINSON: So you don't know?
9 MR. VO: I don't know, but I do have a document.
! 10 The document CP&L refer to that speed. letter issued to the 11 field back in 1980. And I have about 25 more same speed ,
1 12 letters, all the same PO number for different hangers.
13 MR. GUILD: Later, if you could, identify that 14 .so we can keep track of what we got. This one refers to ,
15 PO 21022, appears to be July 3, 1983, speed letter.
, 16 MR. ROBINSON: Who's it :to.
17 MR. VO: Mr. Wayne Harris. From Wayne Harris to i
j 18 Gerald Corley. !
19 MR. ANG: Appears to.be a material requisition l
20 from construction to purchasing to supply some plates-for 21 use as pipe support material.
22 MR. VO: Yes. Mr. Wayne Harris, he'sLa l
e
k t
6.
5 20852.0 40
.KSW I
1 mechanical senior engineer, CP&L field engineer. And Mr.
2 Corley, he's Daniel's superintendent for hanger 3 construction. That's anything, you know, refer to Mr.
I' 4 ~
Wayne Harris issued to Mr. Corley to be performed. -
5 MR. ROB 1NSON: Do you think that Mr. Harris knew 6 that PO 21022 was void at that' time?
7 .MR. VO; I don't know, sir. If he know, he 8 couldn't issue that. I don't think he know because he 9 issued not only one, but I say about 25 more.
10 MR. GUILD: I should point out that DDR 1775 indicates that that same purchase order number was listed 11 12 as a source of material for components on a number of 13 hangers and lists by way of example several but appears on ;
i 14 its face to indicate there were a number of other hangers 15 that referenced the same PO number, 16 MR. ANG: What is the significance of the wrong t
17 PO number being used or ordered to you, Mr. Vo? You can't :
18 trace the material to the purchase order, do you think 19 that wrong material could have been used?
20 MR. VO: The reason the CP&L organization in the
- 21 beginning, you see any material shipped on site even some, '
(
22 you know, they have a QA/QC procedure, particularly Q ;
-v
'^ HistT W Page s cat M Pesos
. . _ 1
1 20852.0 41 KSW 1 material before release to for construction they had to be 2 reinspected and documented, and somehow, you see, all 3 material, some do, some don't, and still when they got to 4 the field still really old material to the field and store '
5 in there, store reefer to turbine or auxiliary building or 6 waste processing building or fuel handling building.
7 And then, you see, I was in craft. I'm a pipefitter, a 8 plumber, and I go to them to help and to learn together to 9 perform the job. Particularly the craft Daniel employee 10 on the site, they are very clear if you do some mistake, 11 get a lunch box and go with me out to the gate.
12 MR. ANG: I hope you bear with me. I'm 13 repeating what you say for her benefit, not for you.
14 MR. VO: Yes. And I know, I assume I'm 15 pipefitter. When you see a hanger like a component 16 coolant support system, I have a package, the hanger 17 sketch show that they have steel 2 feet 6 inch long due to 18 the surface of the concrete is not really good. They have 19 some waving, and they try to trim off the tube steel to 5
20 fit.
21 MR. ANG: They don't normally attach tube steel 22 to the concrete?
l l
l EXHIBIT (t.) i Page Ud
- .. . - =.
20852.0 42 KSW l MR. VO: Fit it to the base plate or fit it to 2 whatever. Sometimes imbed not really square, and when 3 they trim off, by lack of performance, they put in the 4 short. They do not inform to the foreman and then they go -
5 around, you know, they find out where they can find 6 another piece of tube steel, same, you know, same 7 dimension. They don't know what type. They don't care 8 the property material should be right to the same or not.
9 Only they care is to the right dimension.
10 MR. ANG: My question on that would be on the 11 purchase order regarding base plates, and maybe even with 12 tube steel, is there any other type material on site?
13 MR. VO: Yes, they have so many materials.
14 MR. ANG: For example, what other kind of plates 15 would they have? I think 836 would be the lowest grade 16 that they have. -
17 MR. VO: Material traceability NCR.
18 MR. ROBINSON: I believe Bill's question was, is l 19 there any lower grade steel base plates than 836 steel.
20 MR. VO: Yes, they have so many shift from
)
i 21 different like force of power plant.
22 MR. ANG: They use 836 there too? I don't know l
4 EXHtBIT p.g. e2 as(A) //4 Puses
-20852.0 43 KSW 1 that you can get anything much worse, at lease not at 2 Shearon Harris, than 836.
3 MR. VO: I don't know about that. I say beside 4 base plate they have some tube steel like without -
5 certification and test and heat number. That's what I 6 have been using.
3 7 MR. ANG: But again, let me understand. Is j 8 there any material on site that is less than 836 or does 9 not have all this documentation on it that --
I 10 MR. VO: I don't know, sir. They have so many i-11 different sources materials.
[. 12 MR. ANG: If they did make a mistake or even if 13 they use something other than PO 21022, they may still 14 have used the right material, you know, the number, the j 15 purchase order number might be wrong. That's something we 16 need to look at, but you have to recognize, though, that a t
17 case of structural steel 836 normally is v'ery common.
18 MR. VO: Very common.
i 19 MR. ANG: I don't think there's anything much 20 less than that.
21 MR. VO: I agree with you, sir.
! 22 MR. ROBINSON: To kind of' repeat what I asked EXHIBIT (4 -
ease f L d A
- 20852.0 44 I KSW i s
1 before, do you have any indication that anyone i
2 intentionally wrongfully used that PO number, or do you --
t 3 does it just appear to be carelessness or a mistake or no 4 communication? -
5 MR. VO: I think that's a careless mistake, no 6 communication.
7 MR. ROBINSON: Okay. Could we.take a break for j 8 just a minute?
9 (Recess.)
10 MR. ROBINSON: Let's go back on the record. Let
- 11 the record reflect that we're back on the record referring
! 12 to the use of purchase order 21022 for obtaining materials 4 13 after that purchase order was voided.
, 14 MR. VO: That is the copy of the package for the 15 hanger CC-H-105.
16 -
MR. VO: That refers to the work procedure 110, 17 revision 8.
a 18 MR. GUILD: Explain where that hanger package 19 came from.
20 MR. VO: That hanger package and the CMR, 21 construction material requisition, I'm go back a little 22 bit because after investigation and DDR 1775 issued, NRC EXHIBIT 4 p g, /
4 M W
I; l
' 20852.0 45 i
, KSW ,
l I
1 issued the stop work order from the hanger. '!
- 2 MR. ANG
- NRC?
3 MR. VO: Yes. That is, Mr. Foscolo issued the 4 memorandum.
5 MR. ANG: That wasn't an NRC stop work order 6 though, was it?
7 MR. VO: Yes. l t
- 8 MR. ANG
- It was?
i 9 MR. GUILD: Okay, here we-go. This is an i
10 excerpt from an inspection report and appears to be the ,
11 cover letter of December 1, 1983.
l 12 MR. VO: Right here, sir.
13 . MR. ANG: Saying the licensee issued a stop work T
14 order. CP&L issued a stop work order, not the NRC. It's i
e
! i 15 just the licensee issued the stop work order regarding
, 16 pipe support and installation inspection.
I 17 MR. ROBINSON: That's the impression I got from --
18 MR. VO: Mr. Foscolo issued that letter, that 19 memorandum, and 'tdue probationer status was issued on my 20 performance in August. And right here --
i
, 21 MR. GUILD: Chan, you were going to explain f 22 where the hanger package documents came from.
EXHIBIT (2-)
W Page # d
20352.0 KSW 46 1 MR. VO: The CP&L organization for your 2 information will show all right here, will show the 3 situation after the stop work order. CP&L started to re --
4 MR. ANG: Before you get too far, Mr. Guild .
5 tried several times; what's the significance of this l
6 package?
i l 7 MR. VO: I'm going there now, sir. That will go 1
8 with this one. The CP&L, the seismic hanger no more j
9 performance in the field.
10 MR. ANG: I beg your pardon?
11 MR. VO: The seismic hanger is no more stop 12 performance.
13 MR. ANG: Don't install, don't inspect any more 14 pipe supports for now?
That's what the stop work order 15 was?
16 MR. VO: They will revise the procedure, what 17 procedure, work procedure 110, rev 8, including 18 nonconformance procedure.
, DDR sh all be superceded . In 19 Alec Fuller's. department, they tried to create the new 20 package of hanger reflect to work procedure 110, revision 21 8, and they started to destroy all the inadequate CMR and 22 particularly some hanger package because the new package b
' EXHIBIT (2)
Page M d
20852.0 47 KSW 1 of hangers is completely different with existing package.
2 MR. ROBINSON: Who destroyed all the previous 3 CMRs?
4 'MR. VO: The reason I found the proolem due to ,
5 my performance, the field engineer, at that time, Mr. Alec 6 Fuller say, from now on, you no more in your office. You 7 a field engineer. When you come up.to office, go out to 8 the field, and you have right come back at lunchtime. And i 9 after lunch, go back to the. field until the second-whistle, 10 and I out of due to technical support for the field for 11 nonseismic hanger, nonseismic hanger, and we need some 12 material, you know, nonseismic material, and I went to the 13 warehouse.
14 When I went to the warehouse to search some tube steel 15 or some other kind of steel and some angle iron, I saw, 16 you know, three people very close to -- engineers very 17 close to Alec Fuller -- walk together in the warehouse, 18 and I found that -- these papers in the trash can. And I 19 take -- this is wintertime, cold, and I took, put my 20 jacket. I just keep for my documentation.
21 MR. GUILD: How many hanger packages were'in the 22 trash?
i
.1 ExHt81T @)
{
pase f2-
20852.0 48 KSW 1 MR. VO: I really don't know, but I have so many, 2 only one right here, and I have so many material 3 requisition.
4 HR. GUILD: Was it a little can, big can? -
5 MR. VO: They have a'200, you know, container 6 like a, you know, oil container.
- 7 MR. GUILD: 200-gallon container? ,
8 MR. ANG: I recognize they put a stop work order 9 out. I recognize that. Because of that, they are i
10 reperforming all kinds of inspections. And the numbers 11 that you're talking about, I recogniEe those numbers. You
( 12 don't have to tell me how many.
13 MR. GUILD: How many what? The question is, how 14 many destroyed documents did he see. Is there one piece 15 of paper he found in the trash can, or was it a whole 16 trash can full,.and I think Mr. Van Vo's observation was 17 that he happened to get some samples out of a large 18 container.
19 MR. VO: I don't know how many. That's why I 20- just one time I picked up one time. That's all, because l 21 when I went to the warehouse I had to have a pass. I I 22 don't have right to go to warehouse without pass.
, 1 1
- J l
l EXHIBIT CO l Page M OI 1
20852.0 KSW 49 1 MR. ROBINSON: This was Mr. Fuller and three of 2 his friends or --
t 3 MR. VO: Three of his employees. I don't know 4 who order that.
5 MR. GUILD: Fuller wasn't there?
6 MR. VO: Fuller wasn't there.
7 MR. GUILD:
Who were the three people?
8 MR. VO: Mr. Paul Howard, and -- excuse me, I go 9 back to organization because very hard for me to remember 10 the name.
11 MR. ROBINSON: Okay.
12 MR. VO: I think Mr. Fulcher.
13 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, anybody else?
14 MR'. VO: The third guy like a warehouse guy. I 15 couldn't remember the name, sir.
16 MR. ROBINSON: And they -- you did you see them 17 throw documents in the trash can?
18 MR. VO: No, sir.
I didn't say so.
19 MR. ROBINSON: But soon after you saw them 20 walking by the trash can --
21 MR. VO: They were in the re. .
They were inside 22 the warehouse. The trash can ft- u tr the surplus EXHlBIT (4 Page N OI
20852.0 50 KSW l material.
2 MR. ROBINSON: Is there any reason that these 3 CMRs should be destroyed?
4 MR. VO: I don't know, sir.
5 MR. ANG: These are pipe support inspection.
6 MR. ROBINSON: Did you pull these out of the 7 trash can too?
8 MR. VO: Yes.
9 MR. ROBINSON: And this was because they were 10 now going into work procedure revision 9 and starting a 11 new inspection procedure or --
( 12 MR. VO: Yes. The work procedure 110, revision j 13 1, revision 0, to revision 8. Still revision, revision 8, 14 still change a little bit due to process. Still give 15 three phase for inspection. And the work procedure 110, !
l 16 revision 9, is a 100 percent completely changed. It's no i
17 more phase 1, phase 2 or phase 3. The field engineer 18 turned to me the initial inspection. If you look reveal 19 on day work procedure, you will see it.
20 MR. ANG: That's not exactly what the -- j 21 MR. ROBINSON: And' they were discarding hanger 22 packages that were inspected under 0 through 8 or --
O EXHIBIT (2)
Page E d
20852.0 KSW 51 l MR. VO: Zero through 8 is no more, you know, in 2 compared with the revision 8. The package, you see, that 3
package, anyone can mark in there in the back and a new 4 package, the blue like paper cover with a hard bar and the 5 green card with the hard, not that soft.
6 MR. ROBINSON: Thicker?
7 MR. VO: Thicker, and with the new documentation 8
not, you know, s o m'e , they still use it, you know, the 9
existing documentation, to transfer to the new package, 10 and some don't.
11 MR. ANG: So they voided all previous j 12 inspections?
13 MR. VO: Yes. !
14 MR. ANG: They performed some required new 15 inspections?
Some of the documentation was obtained from 16 previous documentation?
17 MR. VO: Yes. I don't know they perform it or 18 not, yon-know. I i
19 MR. ANG: !
You feel this record should have been '
20 kept?
21 MR. VO: I think that's to me very inadequate, !
22 you know, the pipe performance because refer to revision o EXHIBIT p) l- Page Od t
i
. l 20852.0 52 KSW l to revision 8, 80 percent of the hangers being built into 2 the plant, and due to that kind of completion, they have 3 some deficiencies. If you have a chance go back, look, 4 containment spray on the containment building, you will ,
'5 see what pipe support for that system and how deficiency
- 6 they are.
7 MR. ANG: The question I have, though, is they 8 are reperforming inspections?
9 MR. VO: I don't know, sir, I never seen them.
10 I just do the paperwork in the office.
11- MR. ANG: _You don' t know whether they - are i
- 12 reperforming inspections or not?
13 MR. VO: No, sir.
14 MR. ANG: Is that your question?
15 MR. VO: At that time I didn't see the !
~ :
16 reinspections.
t 17 MR. ANG: What I'm getting at is, what is your !
{
18 concern in regard to disposing of the records? You're not !
19 sure they are not going to be inspected or you're not sure 20 the proper records are there, or what is your concern? '
21 !
tGt. VO: My concern about, you see, they are ' j 22 like the new procedure. They say that time.the people go !
e EXHIBIT (4 Page M d
20852.0 53
, KSW l into the warehouse like tube steel, I-beam, base plate, 2 telescope, rigid telescope, and I-beam, refer to new 3 procedure allow if something no heat number, stamped on 4 the stamp on the material. Put the Delta 36, that should
- 5 be the proper material, and that, you know, that NCR shows 6 what.the performance, even they put the Delta 36 on the i
7 material. .
8 MR. ANG: What is your main concern about those 9 records in the trash can?
10 MR. VO: I don't know. I know that's improper 11 when you destroy, you know, something. The paper need to 12 be stay even you have a new procedure, they should be stay
~
13 in the package. Why, you know, I don't know, maybe they 1
14 -have a different organization, you know, different 15 planning, I don't know.
i 16 MR. ROBINSON: After these were destroyed there 4 -
17 was no way to reconstruct these, no copies of any of these?
18 MR. VO: That's original they destroyed. That 19 means they don't have documentation.
20 MR. ANG: The real proof is the pipe support.
21 gets installed. When you look at that, there's no way 22 it's going to be changed, and you inspect that pipe i
EXHIBIT G4 4 Page I 1 4 b*
~
20852.0 54 KSW 1 support.
2 MR. GUILD: 10 CFR part 50, appendix B, requires 3 that the licensee commit to maintaining documentary 4 evidence of the quality of safety of the work in the plant, .,
5 and it seems to me fundamental that if you destroy that 6 documentation, you're violating 10 CFR part 50 unless you 7 'do so in a. controlled fashion. I. don't think either Mr.
8 Van Vo or I are in a position to know what the 9 significance is as a conclusive matter of finding safety 10 related matter in the trash can, but I don't think you 11 should presume to the contrary.
12 MR. ANG: I'm trying to find out --
s 13 MR. GUILD: Just because the hanger remains 14 there that doesn' t mean there 's not a regulatory violation 15 reflected in that, and I.think you ought to look at the 16 appendix B requirement to maintain those quality records 17 as certainly an issue that should be investigated in 18 connection with this.
1 19 MR. ANG: No question about that. I'm just i
]
20 trying to find out what the concern is, and I presume from 21 your words that the concern is there's a concern regarding 22 the control of the quality records.
EXHIBIT (2)
Page Nd # ", ,
^ '
_ _ __ , . - - ~ ,,
20852.0 55 KSW
- 1 MR. GUILD: Sure.
2 MR. ANG: You don't know that there has been a e
3 falsification of records or that records that were 4 required have not been kept, it's just that the concern 5 over the control is there because of this.
6 MR. GUILD: We see evidence that quality 7 documents' have been destroyed. Maybe they , put them on 8 microfilm. Maybe there are Xerox copies. Maybe there's a 9 controlled way of destroying.these. We don't know.
10 MR. ROBINSON: When did you find these?
11 MR. VO: November of 1983, sir.
12 MR. ROBINSON: Where?
13 MR. VO: Surplus warehouse, surplus material 14 warehouse, warehouse 6. That means 123456.
15 MR. ROBINSON: Warehouse 6 trash can. Okay.
16 MR. GUILD: Again, these were -- was a 17 200-gallon container.
18 MR. VO: Yeah.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Full of.this same type of stuff? !
20 MR. VO: They have so many things in.there, not !
21 particularly one stuff. They have so different.
22 MR. ROBINSON: Did you just kind of walk by and
-vaterrG4
$ ge E E d %. M
- l l
1 l
20852.0 56 KSW l take stuff off the top or --
2 MR. VO: I'm a CP&L employee. If I do that, I 3' stand to watch very carefully, I might get in trouble.
4 MR. ROBINSON: You didn't stay there very long. .
5 MR. VO: Yes.
6 MR. ANG: I'm familiar with the pipe support 7 inspection program at Shearon Harris. Mr. Vo's concern 4
8 relates.to documentation of inspection records prior to 9 this new inspection program that they have gotten into, 10 and the question is, what controls have been there for the 11 old records that they had obtained with this old 12 inspection program and what does that do in relation to 13 the new inspection program; is that correct?
14 MR. VO: Yes.
15 MR. GUILD: There may be other issues involved 16 too, but that certainly sounds --
17 MR. ANG: If there are, I would like to hear 18 from Mr. Vo. As far as I see now, it's the only issue.
19 MR. GUILD: Mr. Ang, Mr. Van Vo and I.
~ "
20 MR. VO: Excuse me a second. The reason, you 21 see, if they have some planning to destroy, they should be 22 destroyed all CMR. They cannot destroy a partial and keep.
l I
EXHIBIT (2) 3 '!
Page b d
-20852.0 57 KSW 1 a partial. The question in my mind is why they destroy, 2 you.know, a partial of the CMR, and besides that, at that 3 time CP&L have a TB. I don't know what that stand for, TB 4 consultant.
5 MR. ANG: What were they doing.
6 MR. VO: They were doing the hanger. They 7 prepare the new package, they create a new package. they 8 repair how to control, you know, set up the program, 9 whatever they do.
10 MR. GUILD: Let me make an observation. It 11 seems to me inappropriate to, in effect, crcss-examine Mr.
12 Van Vo about the legal and regulatory issues that are 13 involved in the facts that he brings to you. He brings a.
14 set of facts to you, and I consider it the NRC's 15 responsibility to review all implications of those facts.
16 The tone of the question was, I heard, if Mr. Van Vo 17 doesn't ring the correct Appendix B criterion bell, we're 18 not going to follow this matter.
19 MR. ANG: That's not true.
20 MR. GUILD: Do you hear what I'm saying?
21 MR. ANG: Let me say what I have to say first.
22 What I've heard so far is this concern regarding controls.
l t
1 EXHlBIT (2) I Page.I2of4 N as
1 20852.0 KSW 58 l
I'm trying to understand all his concerns, and I'm trying 2 to get those concerns out. If there are, I would like to 3 hear them.
4 MR. GUILD: He's brought you the facts. He -
5 finds destroyed documents in an obviously uncontrolled 6 place, in a trash heap, and I say to you as a lawyer that
.7 it occurs to me that that. raises questions about 8 compliance with at least one appendix B criterion related 9 to documents control. It may raise a whole number of 10 others, but the tone of the question was if Mr. Van Vo 11 doesn't cite to that appendix B criterion as his concern 12 that ends the matter.
13 MR. ROBINSON: I agree with what you're saying 14 in that his presentation of facts don't necessarily have 15 to be accompanied by everything that he thinks is wrong 16 with that. And we understand that.
17 MR. VO: The point you know --
18 MR. ANG: I'm trying to get as much information 19 as I can.
20 MR. VO: I know very clear about 10 CFR, 21 appendix B. The reason I brought the problem is in your s..
22 job you know what requirement the utilities should go by i
EXHIBIT 00 Page Md
20852.0 59 KSW 1 the right guide and should be performed reflect to that.
2 My question, do they go to the right guide. To the CP&L 3
performance like that, is it not violation regular guide 4 or are they going by the regular guide. .
5 MR. ANG: We want all you think we need to know, 6 get all that information.
7 MR. VO: You.are professionals. You know 8 exactly what your NRC issue to the utility. I don't need 9 to repeat about that.
10 MR. ROBINSON: We'are aware of the significance 11 of certain facts that you may present to us from our 12 standpoint, but we're interested in the significance of 13 those facts from your angle too.
14 MR. VO: I do what I could, but the point I did 15 not bring out the problem because I think, you know, you 16 know exactly whether they are matched with the appendix B 17 or not matched with appendix B.
18 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, continue.
19 MR. VO: In November and December 2d, the two l 20 DDR numbers before, they supersede the DDR procedure. The I
21 point I would like to point out, the number right there. ,
22 MR. ANG: DDR 2317 and 2327. f L
d EXHIBIT (z) l Page P d W (
20852.0 60
, KSW 1 MR. ROBINSON: Are you just pointing out the 2 number to identify the paper or do you have a significance 3 to --
4 MR. VO: No, that's seismic, you know, .
5 deficiency about HVAC, and I would like to supply one more 6 information. Due to I have so many friends on site, due 7 to conversation with,them, they have ordered, you know, 8 when they stop work on the hanger, the QA inspector no 9 more, you know, try to cut down the number of deficiency 10 on noncompliance to be issued. If they found something 11 wrong, the best way to do is by interoffice memorandum, 12 and right here the memorandum on October 10. I really i
13 don't know NRC have that memorandum.
14 MR. ANG: This is a QA surveillance report?
15 MR. ROBINSON: Number 83860.
16 MR. ANG: Regarding pipe hanger installation, 17 preliminary.
18 MR. ROBINSON: On these two DDRs, Mr. Vo, are 19 you trying to indicate that you don't think they were 20 dispositioned or --
21 MR. VO: I don't know they are dispositions or 22 not. Anything in the QA organization. The DDR just i
i l
l EXHIBIT (I)
Page E d
- .-_ .. -~ .- . . . . . - --
o I
, 20852.0 61 .
KSW .
i l i supplied from a friend of mine who was a OA inspector,
.1 i
2 MR. ROBINSON: You're supplying this to us to 3 guide us to a potential problem?
j'
- 4 MR.' VO
- No , I'm not to guide you to do the job ,
5 because you know better than I am.
1 i
6 MR. ROBINSON: No, no. We -- I i
- .7 , MR. VO
- I would like to point right here the 8 number of DDR, you know, due to the June, 1983, to ;
i 9 November 1983 for inspection, and the DDR number and what 10 the safety injection piping, they have so many like DDR j 11 1914 issued 825883 for safety injection piping, for valve i} 12 inspection, for' pipe hanger, for anything, I would supply.
13 I.do not know which one are dispositioned.
14 MR. ROBINSON: Okay. But like I said, you are
] 15 giving this to us for our -- for us to look at the 16 integrity of this installation?
i 17 MR. VO: No, for your information. I would say
, 18 like to point a number because after the procedure, DDR 19 procedure being superceded and'the NCR, the new procedure 1
20 was come up to take place and to go back the number 001
- 21 and no more DDR on January --
22 MR. ROBINSON: So the number was significant.
9 1
l EXHIBIT Page b! Y (2.)Y W
, 20852.0 62 KSW i
1 MR. VO: Right here, the one I jost gave to you, i 2 right here, right now DDR no more in at Shearon Harris 3- nuclear power plant. The reason I know exactly. They are 4 a threat to be like Zimmer because if, you know, in 5 December, 1983, you try to ask director of the QA, CP&L QA 6 how many DDR being issued and how many NCR being issued d
7 and how many DDR being issued,.I think the number should 8 come up-approximately over 4000. And now they go back.
9 you know, with the new procedure, they go back again to 10 number one.
11 MR. ROBINSON: And do you think or do you know
(' 12 they destroyed the --
13 MR. VO: No, they cannot destroy it. They got 14 to be keep in the records. I don't think they couldn't I 15 destroy that nonconformance.
16 MR. ROBINSON: So even though they changed the j 17 numbering system to maybe what, show that there were not 18 very many nonconformances in Shearch Harris, that there 19- were 4000 up to that point when they changed the number?
[ 20 MR. VO: Because I know exactly Mr. Buck 1
21 Williams, he was a former mechanical engineer from TVA, 4
j 22 and he very good. He experienced in the QA QC field very 9
l EXHIBIT 40 Pase B
- 20852.0 KSW 63 l
strong, and he know exactly what's' going on, and, you know, 2
to avoid the same situation with some nuclear power plants 3
being shut down by such and such, and he prepare a 4 different way.
5 MR. ROBINSON: Are you saying that he knows that 6 if NRC or someone sees that too many NCRs and DDRs are 7
coming up, that the numbers are getting up higher?
8 MR. VO: That certain number, yes.
9 MR. ROBINSON: They are going to start looking a 10 lot closer and possibly close down the plant.
11 MR. VO: That's what I think. I don't know NRC 12 procedure. I don't know.
l 13 MR. ROBINSON: That's what you think, but was it 14 Buck Williams' idea to change the number -- ;
i 15 MR. VO: No, I don't think Buck Williams. The f 16 higher level management downtown, not Buck. Williams.
17 MR. ANG: Did I understand you correctly, or am 18 I wrong, are you saying that they are no longer writing as 19 i many NCRs or DDRs?
l 20 MR. VO I don't think DDRs no longer exist. l' i
21 0
. They don't use them any more, but they are using !
22 !
NCRs, _and they are still writing NCRs or -- -
I I
EXHIBIT (4 Page d d i i
20852.0 64 KSW 1 MR. VO: No, a new procedure, new number, right 2 there.
3 MR. ANG: I'm trying to get to the bottom of 4 your concerns as far as numbers, and I recognize there's a ,
5 concern with this appearance of numbers, but is there a 6 concern that they are still writing nonconformances?
7 MR. VO: They still do but, you know, I have one 8 DDR nonconformance, one nonconformance should be right now 9 about a hundred number. They try to cover one 10 nonconformance, 36 page. I have that. And I do have like, 11 you know, I express to you about the memorandum that f 12 should be they write nonconformance, they didn't do it.
13 They just issue memorandum.
14 MR. ANG: You mean the OA surveillance report?
15 MR. VO: Yes.
16 MR. GUILD: I think he mentioned speed letters 17 as well as a source of documenting deficiencies.
18 MR. ROBINSON: And interoffice memos.
19 MR. GUILD: And interoffice memos.
20 MR. ANG: The interoffice memo he gave us was 21 forwarding the QA surveillance report if I read that 22 correctly. Is this the inneroffice memo you're talking i
EXHIBLT (:4 !
Page -y e i A Pages
-- - i
20852.0 KSW 65 l about? That forwards the QA surveillance report, which is 2 a formal QA document. '
3 MR. GUILD: 'But it's not an NCR or deficiency 4 report and seems to reflect a large number of deficiencies. -
5 MR. ANG: Yes.
6 MR. GUILD: Maybe there are NCRs or deficiency 7 reports out there. We just don't know.
8 MR. ROBINSON: Do you have a line you want to 9 continue on now?
10 MR. VO: Yeah, the last one documentation I 11 brought today is about my speed letter to my supervisor 12 about the condition of the pump.
13 MR. ROBINSON: Condition of the pump? Okay, 14 yes.
15 MR. ROBINSON: This is a speed letter to Alec 16 Fuller from Van Vo Davis.
17 MR. VO: Yes.
j 18 MR. ROBINSON: !
Dated 8-25-82, regarding extreme' !
19 loads on the stean generator feed pump. i Why don't you go j 20 ahead and tell us -- !
{
21 MR. VO: I just would like the information the 22 time I have been informed to load impose on the feed pump f I
20852.0 66 KSW-1 and when they fixed it because-a year after, you know, my 2
information to them, they start to fix. In particular, 3
Mr. Ang will know about the stress imposed on the pump a 4 .long time period, about a year, do the material of the .
5- pump steel good to be stand there or need to be removed.
6' The CP&L documentation will show when they fixed that pump.
7 MR. ANG: They cold-sprung the pipe, right?
8 MR. VO: Yes.
9 MR. ANG: When they did that and attached it to 10 the pump, they kept it installed for a year; is that what 11 you were saying?
12 MR. VO:
[ At that time I -- that's in my arca, 13 the turbine building is my building, but I am perform on 14 the hanger, not the piping, I see with the 24a-inch pipe 15 with the gas check valve and gate valve, and due to they 16 drop down to the pump to connect . to the pump in vertical, 17 they have a deviation. They are not fixed right on the 18 circumference, on the outside of the pipe. - And they use 19 comealong, try to force the pipe to fit to the pump and 20 tank.
21 MR. ROBINSON: Pipe to fit to the pump.
22 MR. ANG: You're talking about the welder joint ExHlBIT page 60 Gl d . g. M
{
20852.0 67 KSW '
1 between the. pipe and the flange?
2 MR. VO: No, not flange. It's welded directly 3
to the pump, and I tried to' inform the condition to my 4 supervisor, to Mr. Willett. ~
5 MR. ROBINSON: You sent this to Fuller?
6 MR. VO: Yes. I'm asking him becauce I'm under 4
7 very discipline, I'm asking'him do he allow me to, you -
8 know, notify to Mr. E. E. Willett, or what I have to do.
l f
9 He say, you write a speed letter to me, I route. And the 10 . field steel keep, you know, work, to finish thht weld, and 11
- - when they wear out they take off comealong, then they go
),; ' 12 back to buy dial indicator to check the condition of the 13 pump, and they found like in m'y chart --
l 14 MR. ANG: You're talking about the pump to motor
} 15 or shaft alignment?
1 16 MR. VO: Yes.
17 MR. ANG: Was that ever bought of f?
i 18 MR. VO: I don't know, sir. They might, sir.
I 19 MR. ROBINSON: You indicated that a year later 20 they were making some kind of correction ta that situation?
. 21 MR. VO: I talk to Mr. Roy Se*.tle. He was in
- -22 charge on the whole equipment installation at Shearon rJHIBIT (2)
Page .3 M M
20852.0 68 KSW 1 Harris nuclear power plant, I asked him, Roy, do you know t
2 that problem happened? He said, Chan, I do know the 3 problem happened. And I did inform to Mr. E. E. Willett '
4 three times and the last time Mr. Willett say, Roy, I i 5 don't want to hear that problem no more. If something 6 happens, I will get you first. That's what he said.
7 MR. ROBINSON: Okay,,that was the day after you l 8 found this in the trash can, right?
9 MR. VO: Yes.
10 MR. ROBINSON: Did you find the letter in the :
11 trash can -- you gave this to Fuller, and the next day you !
s 12 found this in the trash can?
13 MR. VO: They have a speed letter. They have 14 three copies. I keep the yellow, and the white to Mr. I 1
15 Fuller, and you know, every morning they have a lady, she, )
1 16 you know, clean up desks and trash for anyone, and I look I 17 at this because I very easy to recognize my handwriting.
18 MR. ROBINSON: And then you talked to Roy Settle
- l l 19 about that?
i l 20 MR. VO: Yes, because I really considering this 21 case, and Roy with me. We have been working together. I f h
22 have very good coordination with electrical people, with b l,
4 E.XHIBlT (4 Page N d i
[
20852.0 69 KSW .
1 mechanical people, with people and with the field, you 2 know, and I talk to him. Particularly he was a former 3 soldier. He went to my country.
4 MR. ROBINSON: And it was after that when you 5 kept talking to Mr. Fuller about this problem, that's when 6 pressure started?
7 MR. VO: No, sir. Well, you know, I'm so have 8 given up because I thirk, you know, anything I do, you ,
9 know, prepare recommend so many procedures to Mr. Fuller, 10 to Mr. E. E. Willett, but any recommend, they throw away.
11 Only one program, the hanger program, that's my 12 handwriting, and being checked by INPO, and they have very 13 good program, but now they don't use it. I prepared a 14 program for hanger of the week, and then they use hanger 15 of the month, and now they have hanger of the 6 month, and 16 finally hanger of the year, and now they don't use it.
17 MR. GUILD: What was the program about?
18 MR. VO: The hanger of the week program.
19 MR. ROBINSON: To make an award for the best -- l 20 MR. VO: Best check and double check the 21 condition of one.
22 MR. ROBINSON: Back once again, you said that EXHIGIT Page fY d (7-)5 W
_______L-_____ - - - -
20852.0 70 KSW f
I when you talked to Mr. Roy Settle -- is it Settle or 2 Saddle?
3 MR. VO: S-e-t-t-1-e.
4 MR. ROBINSON: At that point, you had already ,
5 been under so much pressure that you had given up, or was 1
6 that kind of the start of the pressure?
! 7 MR. VO: Yes.
4 You know, particular if you go i
i 8 back in the organization chart, the CP5L very racial
! 9 discrimination, particularly mechanical department. They 10 are so proud theirselves and no Black engineer in there,
' 11 only one, me, is yellow, and they start isolating me. Ycu i -
12 see one person in same department just early in the 13 morning is not working because usually I show up early, he
] 14 stop by, want to be friendly,' talk to me, and then his 15 supervisor call him back. You don't have business with 16 him. Don't talk to him.
i 17 MR. ROBINSON: When did that happen, soon after j- 18 you were' hired?
19 MR. VO: No, sir, after the three years later 4
, 20 that happened, when I was with Alec Fuller and E. E.
l 21 Willett put the pressure on me.
I 22 MR. POBINSON: How would you estimate your work I
/
I rxHiBlT C0
, isge IS d Ag
! 20852.0 71 KSW load compared to other engineers in your section during '
1 I
2 'that time?
3 MR. VO: Yes. My name right there, that q
4 organization, from February 14, 1983, my performance '
5 turbine all turbine building, Al-A4 elevation, 261 i *
- 6 auxiliary building, and 254 p'ipe tunnel in RAB, and that's '
7 inside the building, and the ' screening structure right l
! 8 about one mile, two miles from inside the building, only
}
9 myself, sir. On this February 14.
3 10 MR. ROBINSON: Okay -- h i.
11 MR. VO: And he has compared with other 1
j 12 engineers. t
} 13 MR. ROBINSON: These are your areas of 14 responsibility? [
t 15 MR. VO Yes. I r
16 MR. ROBINSON: You're saying these areas of r
1 17 responsibility are much more difficult than these areas of +
j I
i I
18 -responsibilities? !
l, i q
19 MR. VO: I didn't say so, sir. I said work load,
- l5 1 20 you know, only myself I had to take care of the turbine !
4 t 21 building. They have four different elevations, 240 i 2
! 22 elevation, 260 elevation, 280 elevation'and 314 elevation. t
_l*
i l
EXHIBIT Page WW (r-)M W !
t
~ , _ . . . .-. ..-- . -. - .
20852.0 .
72 KSW ,
1 And I be 261, see, -they subdivide for Al and A4. Al and
]
2 A4, so many seismic hangers, and in the pipe tunnel 254 at 3 RAB, and beside that, when I was inside a building,
! 4 particularly when I went to 10, I had to work all the time -
j .
5 go out to the screening structure. -
6 M R'. ROBINSON: And none of these other guys had
?
7 to do anywhere near that amount of, work?
8 MR. VO: You can look on that organization --
i '
9 MR. ROBINSON: Well, I can't --
4
- 10 MR. VO
- A3, A4, like Mr. Williams, and 10
) 11 building just a small area, it's nothing in 10 building, l -
! 12 and looked like Pat'Crisco, A2, A3 and 236 RAB. Johnny 13 Jackson A1, A3, and from February and 2-14, only one month j 14 when they found so much, they 'put so much on me, they 15 changed turbine and A-2-261.
16 MR. ROBINSON: They reduced your work load?
) 17 MR. VO: They change that. He asked me, when ,
18 you quit, Chan? I said, I'm trying to look for another '
19 j job. When I get a job, I'll let you know, sir, but --
20 MR. ROBINSON: Who said that, Fuller?
21 MR. VO: Yes.
3 .
22 MR. ROBINSON: Go ahead.
. EXHIBIT Page l l d 4)A W
~
t i
20852.0 73 KSW <
1 MR. VO: May 22, 1983, they changed from the 2 building engineer to system engineer and you look right 3 here how many systems they let out, three more systems, 4 did not list in here. 15 systems, if you compare the 5 chart --
6 MR. ANG: Was there any work going on in those 7 systems?
t 8 MR. VO: Yes, they have'some very -- the systems 9 are very different. Takes care of the whole system for 10 the whole plant. You have to look on the flow diagram ,
i 11 from flow diagram to where they are.
, 12 MR. ANG: Was there any actual construction work 13 going on in those?
14 MR. VO: What do you mean, sir?
15 MR. ANG: Were they putting up pipe support 16 valves on the systems they left out? ;
17 MR. VO: I don't know. I i
18 MR. ANG: I was trying to find out the reason 19 for leaving out those systems, if there was any.
20 MR. VO: The systems the pipes were built in, 21 the pipes and the hanger to be done together.
22 MR. ANG: What systems were left out, do you rXHIBIT #
7 ? (L) of H
,g, Pages
i 20852.0 74 '
! KSW ,
i j
1 know?
i l 2 MR. VO: Right here.
I 3
3 MR. ANG: Those were the ones people were 4 assigned to? -
5 MR. VO: Yes.
6 , MR. ANG: What systems were people not assigned 7 to7 You said there were three. systems left'out. ,J i
- 8 MR. VOt Three I couldn't remember, sir.
And 9 that's May 22, 1983, and June 17, 1983, my writing, you l
10 see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, l t
- 11 17, 18. And you, right here, the engineers, how many, and [
l 12 any time like that I keep because I know the situation. I i
(- 13 keep my mouth shut. Whatever he do, I try to do it. <
14 That's all. I j
15 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, I understand what you're !
t 16 saying. I L
17 MR. ANG: You had safety injection?
i 18 MR. VO: Yes.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Did Fuller or Willett or anyone i
20 ever outwardly make a discriminatory racial statement '
21 against you? '
t 22 MR. VO: They did not really, sir, they just i
LXHIBIT CO Page l I
20852.'O 75 K5W )
l 1
1 tried -- they tried to play game with me. Only Mr. Ed i
< 2 McLean, he come to ask Mr. E. E. Willett, I need Chan.
3 Please let him walk with me because he tried to take me 4 out.
5 MR. ROBINSON: What was Mr. McLean's job?
6 MR. VO: He was a supervisor in equipment and i
7 HVAC installation at that time. But Mr. Will.ett s, aid no.
B MR.' ANG: He's a field engineer or --
9 MR. VO: Yes.
10 -
MR. ROBINSON: Would Willett not let you go 11 because you feel he was determined to run you off?
[' 12 MR. VO: No. The reason is very -- if you told
- 13 the reason it's very terrible because it should be -- Mr.
{i 14 j
E. E. Willett, the first time he take over from Mr. Scotty
)
15 Hinnant, and he called me into his office. He said, Chan, 16 in this department, you and me are old, and he introduced I
17 to me by himself. He said, I am captain in U.S., Navy. I I 18 say, it's very good, sir, because I know, as far as I know, 19 you know, the U.S. Navy traditional when you come up to me.'
20 you know, to captain they have very strong leadership and l 1
21 7 said, CP&L have very good man to lead the mechanical
! 22 department, to perform the job. I said, that's perfect in
)
i l EXHIBIT (0)
Page
20852.0 76 KSW l my -- I said yes, I really learn to respect anyone.
2 MR. ANG: Who was this?
3 MR. VO: Mr. E. E. Willett. And about three or 4 four, you know, a year, he cet up a mechanical department ,
5 like a party together.
6 MR. ROBINSON: Oh, a beer bash?
7 MR. VO: Yes. He asked me to cook.
I make 8 fried rice. I try to enjoy, you know, with people, and 9 finally in 1982, we have a Mr. Mike Taggart, he set up the 10 party in at one person's house. They have like a lake, 11 and we in a park, and we finally play -- he asked me way 12 to play cards.
13 I said, I don't know how play cards. What American I
. I 14 cards, you know, I don't know, but I enjoy just any time 15 because Ed McLean playing that time, and if I win, you 16 know, you get money for me. If I lose, you take it. Just 17 try to enjoy, you know, and Mr. Taggart on the table, Mr.
18 E. E. Willett, Mr. Ed McLean and me. I don't know they 19 play because I don't know the game. And finally Mr. j l
20 Taggart, he lost his all money, and he so mad because he's 21 the white person. He show his hands to Willett, he said, t
{
i 22 you some -- I said, don't talk to your boss that way. I l
EXHIBIT (:4 Page MM W {
20852.0 77 KSW
't 1 even lose mine. And finally, Mr. Taggart, you know, he 2 asked me, you know, because he run out about 70 miles from 3 his home, and he asked me to borrow some money. I said I 4 got $10. You can take it. And he go home, and two weeks 5 later he and his wife be laid off, and I come to ask Mr.
6 Fuller, and the day they laid him off they had the 7 graduate student, the new graduate student, to take 8 Taggart's place. '
9 MR. ANG: Taggart in this organization works for 10 Daniel construction?
11 MR .' VO : Yes.
~
12 O A new person was being hired by Daniel?
13 MR. VO: By Daniel, sir, and they lay both off, 14 husband and wife, and I come, you know, everyone in all my 15 life I feel terrible, you know, to see the people, you i 16 know, I, just my impression, the personal conflict, but 17 you got to think about Mr. Taggart. He have three kids.
18 I come to'ask Mr. Fuller about that. Assuming someone did 19 on you like this one, like this case, how you react? How-20 you feel. Don't be pushing a conflict to her and the 21 three little kids, you know, and Mr. Fuller say, Chan, you 22 are not Daniel. You CP&L. Don't worry about ther e. I say
- XHIBIT (2-)
Page 77 of Al Pages
20852.0 KSW 78 l no, I really worry about my case. That's why I come to 2 ask you.
3 MR. ROBINSON: You think that because Taggart 4 insulted Willett that Taggart got laid off, you think that .
5 was it?
6 MR. VO: I'm positive. Anyone knows that, sir.
7 MR. ROBINSON: Does Willett have the capability 8 of laying off Daniel employees?
9 MR. VO: Yes. He just order to the office.
10 MR. ANG: Indirectly, he does.
11 MR. ROBINSON:- Okay. And Taggart is a Caucasian,
( 12 white man?
13 MR. VO:
Yes, but because his home town isn't 14 here, h come up to New York. That's why he's not in the 15 party, and you look on the chart right here, could you 16 tell me who's the Black man in here from the beginning to 17 now I can bet with you.
18 l
MR. ROBINSON: That there aren't any?
! 19 MR. VO: Two Black engineers come to interview.
- 20 They never get a job, and back in 1979, due to the
,' 21 Greensboro conflict, the town in North Carolina, about the 22 KKK, and they fight in,the street. That's on the case, EXH) BIT (2) g Page M
20852.0 79 KSW l all the department nobody working because they just 2 communication with outside, forget some sources about that ,
3 case, and I'm asking some friend of mine. He said, what 4 are you talking about, that he say, we're talk about white .
5 party. That's what it was explained to me.
6 MR. ROBINSON: The increased work load on you, 7 was that mainly that kind of pressure that was put o n y o u ,-
8 they kept putting more work on you, Fuller and Willett.
9 MR. VO: Actually Willett ordered down to Fuller.
10 MR. ROBINSON: They kept assigning you more work 11 in an effort to try to make you quit?
12 MR. VO: Yes, that's right, sir.
13 MR. ROBINSON: Fuller kept asking you when you 4
14 were going to quit?
15 MR. VO: Yes.
i 16 MR. ROBINSON: Did he ask you more than once? l
)
j 17 MR. VO: I think about six or seven times, I 18 believe the last before they told me that terminate my job, 19 he asked me before'he did that.
l 20 MR. ROBINSON: Ycu told him that you were
{
21 looking for another job and when you found one -- l l
22 " MR. VO:- I letting him know right away because I I
EXHIBIT (24 Page 'd -
> -m + ~ g e g -
e e
20852.0 80 :
KSW '
I 1 do look in the jobs.
2 MR. ROBINSON: I think it says it in the 1
3 affidavit, but how long had this been going on before you 4 were terminated?
5 MR. VO: Oh, for about year and a half, sir.
'6 MR. ROBINSON: About a year and a half? And the 7 reason it started --
8 MR. VO: The reason, you know --
9 MR. ROBINSON: Was because of the 24-inch pipe 10 thing?
11 MR. VO: No, sir, more than that. The reason I j 12 am so concerned about the welfare of the company. When I 13 did right here due to, you know, communication and i
14 information, training and information, back there, I have 15 some friends work with Bechtel and Ebasco, and I tried to 16 prepare a program. I do have the paper on my desk that
- 17 the guidelines for system as built, walkdown verification.
18 MR. ROBINSON: Did somebody order you to develop 19 these guidelines or did you do those on your own?
20 MR. VO: No, sir, I do them at home in my own, 21 and Ed Willett see that guideline. He asked me to give to 22 him. I say yes, you want to have, because I try to l l
i
~
- XHIBIT (7_)
py, ec' o, i
- Pases
. - - . = . _ . . . - -_ -
20852.0 81 KSW l prepare at home, you know, for you, sir, and he brought 2 that to Ash Lucas. I don't know what he talking about, l' <
3 but finally, you know, when I finished the whole program, 4 I run a copy and gave to Mr. Willett and Mr. Fuller, but -
5 this time I make sure I mail to downtown because I talk to 6 McDuffy --
7 -
MR. ROBINSON: You're not sure whether you i
8 mailed that to McDuffy or not?
9 MR. VO: I mailed it to McDuffy to make sure Mr.
10 Willett and Mr. Fuller don't throw my_ recommendation away.
11 MR. ROBINSON: You are sure you mailed that?
, 12 MR. VO: I mailed that to downtown, and here's A
13 Mr. McDuffy's feedback, and Mr. Fuller and Mr. Alec Fuller 14 say, it's not good. Just like a thing, and I said, okay, 15 sir, if you say trust, that's why I work hard. If you say 1 16 that's not good program, okay. Thank you, sir. I keep it 17 and I can guarantee I not speak English so well, but I try e
18- to learn, and I can bet that my program go with a 19 professional. I think a little bit effect to mechanical l l
l 20 nuclear power plant. I will give you that for information.
21 MR. ROBINSON: McDuffy thought the program was 22 . good, you don't think that that -- did Fuller or Willett 4
i EXHIBIT (2)
Page bd
. - ._ , J
20852.0 82 KSW l tell you that they thought it was bad?
2 MR. VO: Fuller told me that program is too bad, 3 no good.
4 MR. ROBINSON: Why? Did he give you a reason? ,
5 MR. VO: He said, he just say no good. That's 6 all. -
7 MR. ROBINSON: When did you submit this.
8 MR. VO: July 1983, sir, because at that time 9 due to RRFT, the. construction they call ready for turnover, i 10 they stop. They say, you know, ready for testing, and we 11 are so behind. I have a computer printout how behind they 12 are by the CP&L computer information about, you know, the 13 turnover, schedule so far behind schedule. 800 weeks 14 behind schedule, and I tried to perform that because we 15 shot one shot and stress analyzers, and we less personnel, 16 less manpower, only one shot will turn over to the start 17 up. And right here, the temporary procedure on the 18 seismic piping, use a cable for temporary turnover. Here 19 1s that procedure.
20 MR. ROBINSON: I'm quite sure that you've got a 21 lot of good ideas technically.
22 MR. VO: No, I just learned, sir.
EXHIBtT 04 Page d' m- ,
i 4
20852.0; 83 l KSW l
i
-1 1 MR. ROBINSON: The primary purpose for this is I i
2 to -- I want you to give us examples of the -- specific '
j 3 examples of the harassment and intimidation that's put on l 4
j 4 you by Willett and -- -
5 MR. VO: That's one of the -- !
6 MR. ROBINSON: You're saying that Willett is l I
j t
7 harassing you because he's not accepting your suggestion ,
i r
8 for a new program?"
9 MR. VO: No, and so many things that we cannot f J
-t j
10 point out one thing, sir,, because he might be harass me I f
b
- 11 because I'm asking Alec Fuller, why, you know, you did {
[ 12 that on Mr. Taggart case and how about me, because I know i.
i 13 the situation, you know, could you let me know because I '
L 14 feeling, you know, no stability in my -- on my job, you r
15 know, no security on my job, and I.know where I'm going 1
16 i
and in so many directions because like Mr. Ed McLean, you i
j 17 know, when -- because I couldn't express to_you how I (
- 18 don't know why -- I try to adapt to learn to be with i
19 people, but_I don't know why, you know, two people, Mr. i 20 Willett and Mr. Alec Fuller, is very hard to get, but I ,
21 always say when I left my country I try to be -- I need ~
22' ~the friendship because friendship to me is something very, 1
i i
EXHIBIT (2.)
Page M d -
-,-o, e s ?. -- y, , , , , , - - , , .m. n., ,, . - , - , . , , , , , . , , , , - -
.-p,,.,~+p-.- , , - - ,
20852.0 84 KSW l you know, more than money, and anyway, I work. I need 2 that kind of atmosphere and attitude and you will see in 3 my recommendation and promotion from CP&L how attitude I 4 am. -
5 And even two days ago I come back in, J. A. Jones, I 6 ta'lk to my former supervisor, Thomas French. Mr. French 7
is a very leadership and very organized CP&L employee, and i
8 Mr. Willett take over, and he being seven years with CP&L, 9 his house in Raleigh. He have his wife and his kids. He 10 had to quit his job to move his house to Charlotte to work 11 with J. A. Jones, and now he was a consultant. He back 12 and forth in the Shearon Harris nuclear power plant, and 13 he told me, Chan, you know in my mind very strange. I'm -
14 asking Tom maybe you know more than I am, why the 15 beginning we do very good and then the CP&L organization f
16 called Duke Power come to Harris site, and Tom told me !
17 they are afraid. l 18 !
MR. ANG: Did they come in in a resident i
i 19 engineering outfit or in the Harris. plant engineering {
t 20 outfit? Your construction outfit is the resident l 21 engineering outfit, field engir.eers?
f I
22 MR. VO: Yes.
[
t
. i EXHIBIT (4 - -
Page d
20852.0 85 KSW i
1 MR. ANG: As field engineers, not in the HPs.
2 MR. VO: And now the Harris plant delay six more 3 months.
4 MR. ANG: The resident engineers are the field '
5 engineers and HPs are more the design type organization?
6 MR. VO: If'you look back now at CP&L record, 1
7 400, the seismic instrumentation packages be are on hold !
l 8 right.now and to me and with Mr. Tom French, I can 9 guarantee that plant in one more year cannot because I 10 know next June 1985, the Westinghouse will ship on site.
i 11 They will ship material to site. No matter CP&L finished,
' l l
12 you know, field hand and building or not. You can store l 13 -material somewhere. That's why I try at the time I am 14 employed, I try to reflect through the schedule. I tried 15 to recommend to my supervisors, you know, to --
16 MR. ROBINSON: To improve the schedule? You i
17 would give him ways to improve the schedule? !
J 18 MR. VO: Yes.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Ar.d he doesn't listen?
20 MR. VO: No, sir. No one listens. That's why I 21 will, you know, right now 1. learn. i Here's my background. j 22 That's why I'm not construction but I am learning about j
l 4
g/
EXHIBIT (I)
Page I E of H 4 Pages
7 20852.0 86 KSW l operations.
2 MR. ROBINSON: I can see that you're very 3 concerned about this plant and its proper operation.
4 MR. GU2LD: If I can drop in, Chan, you have ,'.
5 some information about your transfer request. You tried 6 to be transferred from under Willett and Fuller, and maybe 7 you can explain about that.
8 MR. VO: Because Mr. McDuffy say, Chan, you're a '
9 good man, after I cry with him, I says, I really cry 10 because I'm so upset, and he say, you go back in the field, 11 request transfer and I will help you. I listen to him, I 12 filled the form out. It's just a form.
13 MR. ROBINSON: You're requesting that you're 14 transfer request be reactivated?
15 MR. VO: Yes, but nowhere, one time --
16 MR. ROBINSON: Where did you want to go?
17 MR. VO: Anywhere. I just tried to get out of 18 t' hat pressure, I said anywhere, no matter where. Just to 19 get out of the pressure.
20 MR. GUILD: This document here is from March of '83 21 and says that you're re-activating after 90 days so three ;
1 22 months before that you first applied for a transfer; is cxHistT
" W Page f 6 ot_LUS pages
20852.0 87 KSW l that my understanding?
2 MR. VO: Yes.
3 MR. GUILD: Did Fuller and Willett agree to the 4 transfer? -
5 MR. VO: The people say I should get it. He got 6 to sign here on the paperwork, but you know, when the 7 people want to be transferred to them, they got to call 8 him or call Ed Willett to check on that, and when they 9 call them, you know what happened.
10 MR. ROBINSON: So when you fill out this form 11 and Fuller signs it --
12 MR. VO: Yes.
l 13 MR. ROBINSON: He is essentially saying by '
14 signing it that, yeah, you're available for transfer but 15 somebody 'needs to call me and ask for you.
16 MR. VO: Yes.
17 MR. ROBINSON: Do you know for a fact that 18 somebody called Fuller or Willett and asked for you?
19 MR. VO:- One time I went down to Robinson plant.
20 They called me down for an interview. And they said, Chan 21 you go back, prepare next week, you know, move down here, move down'to work with, you know, at Robinson plant and 22 EXHIBIT (%)
Page E d
20852.0 88 KSW 1 I'm so happy. I'm go back, you know, to prepare to move.
2 MR. ROBINSON: When was that? How long before 3 your termination was that?
4 MR. VO: About early that time, 1983.
5 MR. ROBINSON: March, April of '837 6 MR. VO: Yes. And he called, and then, you know, 7 about due to conversation with Alec Fuller or Willett, I
'8 don't know, and he' called me back. He say the program, 9 you know, we don't have money for the program, and ti;ay 10 cancelled.
11 MR. ROBINSON: The same man that told you? Do
'~
12 you remember what this man's name was?
13 MR. VO: I don't remember.
14 MR. ROBINSON: Personnel?
15 MR. VO: He was a manager for Robinson plant at 16 that time.
17 MR. ROBINSON: At-about March or April of 19837 18 MR. VO: Yes.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Plant manager interviewed you?
20 MR. VO: Yes. He take me, go out for lunch with 21 his assistant.
22 MR. ROBINSON: And he called you back and said i
EXHIBIT (2)
Page 8 of ' Iw, N 05
20852.0 89 KSU 1 it's not in the budget, we don't have the money?
2 MR. VO: Yes.
3 MR. ANG: Was his name --
4 MR. VO: He's real tiny. He's so tall. He come -
5 from up north. I have one problem; it's very hard to 6 remember American names.
, 7 M?t. ROBINSON: Anyone else, did you have 8 interviews or anyone else tell you that they wanted you 9 and they vould be calling Fuller?
10 MR. VO: You see, after that I asked, you know, 11 a friend of mine, Jim Bell, he's an electrical supervisor.
12 I asked Jim, do you know someone down at Southport, we had 13 the plant over there, and he made the memorandum, you know, 14 recommend me to his friend. I went down to show, you know, 15 the presentation, you know, by Mr. Jim Bell to the person 16 in that plant. But, you know, finally two or three days 17 later, the same result, you know, they say they don't have 18 job opening for me.
19 MR. ROBINSON: The same guy you talked to in 20 Sourthport called you back and said they don't have an 21 opening?
22 MR. VO: I called him back; he didn't call me.
EXHIBIT M Page Y' A W
i I
'20852.0 90 KSW l MR. ROBINSON: Would Bell know who this guy was?
2 MR. VO: I got at home, you know, I keep that 3 recommendation, that memorandum.
4 MR. ROBINSON: And it's your feeling that these 5 guys, the plant manager at Robinson and this fellow at 6 Southport, wanted you and then they called Fuller and 7 Fuller talked it down?
8 '
MR. VO: Not actually Fuller. Maybe Fuller, but 9 some people inside. Some friends of mine say, you know 10 who did that? I say, I don't know. They say it's Mr.
11 McDuffy.
i 12 MR. ROBINSON: McDuffy kept you from getting i 13 transferred, you think? 1 i
14 MR. VO: They told me that. I don't know what .
15 American traditional, but he say, when you come down to 16 talk to him, if he willing to help you you transfer right i 17 away. When he are not willing to do so that him give 18 order because any construction organization under his, you 19 know -- that's what they tell me. I' don't know. i I
20 MR. GUILD: You had been to see McDuffy twice at l 21- that time, right?
l 22 'MR. VO: Yes.
1 I
CXHIBIT @) l Ese # # o'-ILI . Pages j
20852.0-91 KSU
- 1 MR. GUILD: You asked for a transfer both times?
2 MR. VO: Yes. I asked him to lay me off first.
3 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, go on. You have another 4 piece of documentation? That's another one of your -
5 programs?
6 MR. VO: No, I just try to sh'ow you show, you 7 know, that Alec Fuller and Jim Jensen -- the procedure for 8 temporary, you know, hanger on seismic hanger. If you 9 walk into the plant you'll see the cable all around, and 10 that's the procedure.
11 MR. GUILD: What's important about tha t 12 procedure, Chan?
13 MR. VO:
That'.s when they transfer, you know, i
14 they should be install permanent hanger. They don't have 15 time to do that, and all they do is a partial, and then 16 they do like a cable to -- they say the I-bolts attach, 2 17 the steel plate they cut like the horseshoe. '
18 MR. ANG: What are you saying? I guess --
{
19 MR. GUILD: You told me you thought this was a 20 bad procedure. i 1
P 21 MR. VO: To me a very bad procedure.
s 22 MR. GUILD: This is an example of something i
EXHIBIT (1) !
Page 9 / of H 4 Pages i
- 1 1
l 20852.0 92 KSW !
l Fuller is responsible for? Is that what you're saying?
2 MR. VO: Yeah.
3 MR. GUILD May not be something you want to go 4 into in-depth, but I think generally Chan is expressing .
5 that both Fuller and Willett were not performing competent
.6 work and there were widespread criticisms of the hanger 7 program. He was criticized for, his work, yet Fuller and 8 Willett's own work was very deficient, and this is an 9 example of a procedure that he found that reflected that.
10 MR. ROBINSON: Who else. Mr. Vo, who else would 11 tell me that Mr. Willett's and Mr. Fuller's work is bad?
12
{~ MR. VO: Anyone, you know. Anyone know that.
13 MR. ROBINSON: Who?
14 MR. VO: Any CP&L engineer because Willett just 15 try like he's talking brag, he's number one, you know, 16 talk to E.E. Willlett, he was number one, and he's he act 17 that way.
18 MR. ROBINSON: That doesn't have anything to do 19 with his competence. Who can I talk to regarding --
20 MR. VO: I'm not an appraiser. Talk to say who
~
21 talked to that. I can't remember, but you know, due to 22 the conversation like in the friendship to the field, you EXHIBIT (2)
Page #Wf hges.
20852.0 93 KSW 1 know, and-they know Mr. Willett very good. He told me he 2 was a former U.S., you know, captain, U.S. Navy you take
- /
3 that you know what --
I don't know his real captain or not 4 but anyway when he speak out, you know, even he want to 5 talk this problem, the glass, before going to the problem 6 he say, God damn it, or you know before going to problem.
7 That's the kind language he use. .All the time.
i i 8 MR. GUILD: Chan, you explained to me once that j 9 you thought both Fuller and Willett had been that the i
j- 10 company themselves had found problems with their work. Do l 11 you remember, and maybe that's something that the NRC 1
- / ' 12 people would be aware of.
i 13 MR. ROBINSON: It's alluded to in here. I was 14 just trying to a'mplify on that.
15 MR. VO: If you talk to, I don't know they are 16 really one to talk or not, but I get information from 17 Mr. French and some people around, I don't know they are 18 really you know particular right now as CP&L employees if 19 they do something you knoe that's the way I heard I don't 4
20 know sir.
- ( 21 MR. ROBINSON: Well we can you know we can 22 protect the confidentiality'of other CP&L employees. I P
rXHIBLT (2)
Nage Ed
s . ,
20852.0 94 KSW 1 understand your situation. If you don't want to involve 2 them, I'm just looking for evidence of you know a lot of ,
3 guys have real strong personalities and have blunt and 4 very hard and very hard line and use excessive language .
- 5 and yet are still competent people.
7 The first, you know, back in 1981, Mr. E.E. Willett take 8 over from Mr. Scotty Hinnant, now he was a superintendent 9 start up at Shearon Harris Nuclear Power Plant, and 10 Mr. E.E. Willett under his supervision they have three on 11 mechanical performance at Shearon under his supervisor and i '
12 now what Mr. Willett has on' hand, you look right now at
- 13 present chart,,and I like to that you can make 14 determination, Mr. Willett is a good management or you 15 know anyone will look at that organization you can make an '
4 16 evaluation what his performance and you look Mr. Parson he ,
17 was a project manager and.
18 MR. ANG: Construction project manager.
19 MR. VO: Now if you look on the new organization i
20 chart, what is the classification of Mr. Parson, and who i
r 21 will take over the job. Mr. C.C. Wagner from Daniel, and p.
22 C.C. Wagner, I don't know mu'ch about Mr. Wagner but he was
/ $
ExalBIT (2)
Page M d
20852.0 95 KSW 1 experienced from Cincinnati and.
2 MR. ANG: Wolf Creek, Farley?
r t'-
3 MR. VO: Burns and Roe, and Cincinnati, and if
'4 you think I will.give you more information what Burns and .
5 Roe been doing on WHOOPS and TMI, and Cincinnati, Zimmer, 6 and I would like to show some'information what Daniel do.
7 MR. ROBINSON: We're.well aware of problems at 8 Wolf Cr,eek.
9 MR. VO: I have right here, you see that- Harris 10 notebook?
11 MR. VO: When he come over you look on the 12 Raleigh Observer, Mr. Wagner do not accept to use the 13 source of water on site.
14 MR. ANG: .For drinking?
15 MR. VO: For his - drinking, and the company the 16 stainless steel boron tank to be a water supply.
17 MR. ROBINSON: Well, I don't have any-further 18 questions about.your harassment and how ycu~have been
- 19. harassed and intimidated. I think I have an understanding
~
20 of the'use of the purchase order number, the concerns that 21 you've expressed regarding the destroyed'CMRs, etLcetera, 22 are there any questions in your mind?
- XHIBIT Page Wd (2)$ W
20852.0 96 KSW l MR. ANG: I have a few questions. I would like 2 to clarify a few things. Going through this affidavit 3 that you sent in, you mentioned that CP&L management 4 demonstrated time and again that they wanted us to look ,
5 the other way when we encountered deficiencies. You 6 pointed out to us about the problem regarding the main I 7 feed pump. Are there any other examples that you're aware 8 of where you were told to look the other way when you 9 encountered deficiencies.
10 MR. VO: The reason, the problem by step, step i 11 by step to level management. I'm go up to Mr. Lucas, I go 12 up to Mr. Parson. I went down to see Mr. McDuffy.
13 MR. ANG: This was the main feed pump.
14 MR. VO: Yes. And.
15 MR. ANG: We've gone through that already.
16 MR. VO: Back in 1983, you know some material
, 17 substitution, you will find you will find on the 12 hanger 18 on the refer to DDR -- deficiencies, material substitution 19 they will show well deficiencies and some kind ever more 20 detail on the DDR. I brought the problem down to 21 Mr. McDuffy and I show to him and finally I talked to 22 Mr. Utley_ finally, and I didn' t see no one concerned about i
EXHIBIT (74
. Page Od s -- . = - - -
4 20852.0 97 KSW 1 it. That's why I'm feeling you know --
2 MR. ANG: There's main feed pump and material 3 substitution problem. Are there any others?
4 MR. VO: That's two.
5 MR. ANG: And that's good .
6 MR. VO: Some more, but finally when the result 7 the more I raise.s up the problem the more I got trouble 8 and that's the last part. About from that point I say 9 from now on I just be there and keep my eyes close, keep 10 my mouth shut because even you know when I was a CP&L 3
11 employee, I don't want to talk, you know, even I have an 12 opportunity to talk to NRC commissioner on site, I don't 13 want to talk to them. Because, you know, to me if we got 14 a power plant we try to fix. We don't want to raises the 15 problem to NRC because I'm a CP&L-employee and the point --
16 the reason I raise, I been working and study hard about 17 the nuclear power plant technology both design and '
l 18 operation because before I met, you know, something, 19 adjustment, I need to know very clear what they are going i
20 on and I try to -- I don't want any consultant different 21 people outside to come to Shearon Harris Nuclear Power 22 Plant to help us.. You know, I want the CP&L engineer to I
i
- JHIBIT (2)
Page WM W
l 1
20852.0 98 KSW [
1 handle the problem. That's why my objective that's what 2 I'm willing to do when I was CP&L employee.
3 MR. ANG: You don't have any other examples 1
4 where you were encouraged to look away. ,'
5 MR. VO: Yes I called Mr. I have one DR talking 6 about a bolt and nut.
7 MR. ANG: Non-c being ,used for Q material. ,
8 MR. ANG: On pipe supports.
9 MR. VO: The pipe support on anything, on flange, 10 and I call Dr. Elleman.
11 MR. GUILD: He's the vice-president for nuclear s
12 safety in the company.
13 MR. VO: Three weeks later he called me back.
14 He say that is safe and after investigation he said it's 15 safe, that's all.
16 MR. ANG: Did you disagree with that?
17 MR. VO: I didn't agree with him.
19 MR. ANG: You disagreed with him.
19 MR. VO: Yes, but when he's the vice-president 20 Lhe says safe and he's in safety.
21 MR. ANG: You wouldn't have a copy of that DR, 22 would you?
l EXHIBfT (E) .
Page N' Gi I
20852.0 99 KSW l MR. VO: I have it at home.
2 MR. ANG: Can we get the number off of it? 4 3 MR. ROBINSON: You can find the number?
4 MR. ANG: Just give us the number. That's all -f 5 se need. Any other examples?
6 MR. VO: No, sir.
U 7 MR. ANG: On page 15 you say I-have very serious 8 concerns regarding the breakdown of quality assurance at 9 the Shearon Harris Nuclear Power Plant. You've given us 10 this example. Are there any others? -
11 MR. VO: Like some, you know, if you need I will
.]
12 supply to you one, you know, DDR, 36 page.
13 MR. ANG: You say that's a breaddown of the 14 quality assurance?
15 MR. VO: Some problem should be issue DDR a
t 16 nonconformance like I just give to you like one memorandu:a. [
P 17 MR. ANO: Can you give me the number of that DDR?
18 MR. VO: You got the 36-page DDR?
19 MR. ANG: I don't need a copy, I just need the 20 number.
21 MR. VO: So many problems if you look on the '
22 speed letter they took the deficiencies by speed letter.
rXHIBlT 5 age. N A (2.)M D
20852.0 100 KSW l
MR. ANG: This DDR should have been written up as 2 an NCR?
3 MR. VO: Should be done officially, but they 4 don't do that. .
5 MR. ANG: The 36-page DDR, what's the problem ,
6 with that?
4 7 MR. VO: They go over about a hundred problems 8 they don't want to issue some DDRs. DDRs like a book you 9 know, like a procedure.
10 MR. ROBINSON: Let's just stop for a minute.
11 MR. GUILD: You didn't find the 36-page DDR, did 12 you?
13 MR. VO: I didn't bring with me. I know exactly.
14 I did not.
15 MR. ANG: Can you tell me the number later on?
16 MR. VO: Yes, I will.
17 MR. VO: Like you see right here, like a design, 18 due to the main steam and feed water, in the turbine 19 building, when they are lack of documentation and 20 inspection, and Ebasco to declassification or 21 reclassification to be from nonseismic to seismic. Maybe 22 I make a mistake because of my l'anguage, refer to Ebasco t
EXHIBIT (2.)
Page E $ d
- , . . _ . _ .. .=- . . .-_
20852.0 101 KSW l letter, to my understanding Ebasco didn't say I agree with 2 you to turn to nonseismic and CP&L on seismis say refer to i
3 a letter such such such and main steam and feed water in
- 4 turbine building,.
5 MR. GUILD: They used a field change report for 6 that?
7 MR. VO: No more performance, what type of 1
8 material should be applied --
9 MR. ANG: Is this a copy we can have?
10 MR. GUILD: That's my only copy.
11 MR. VO: I will give you that.
12 MR. GUILD: You take that one. Chan can send me 13 another one. That would be fine.
14 MR. ANG: Okay.
15 FCRH-ll45 revision 1.
16 !!R . GUILD: Is that an example of a generic NCR, 17 Chan?
18 MR. VO: Yes. I have one more generic DDR and
\
19 if you look at the generic DDR about weld deficiency, DDR 20 1030.
21 MR. ROBINSON: 1030 is a generic DDR on weld 22 deficiency,.and -- okay.
EXHIBIT (7) page .!-[1 d --- W
l 30852.0 102 i
-KSW I 1 MR. ANG: What?
2 MR. VO: The open DDR and when you got a weld 3 deficiency just input to that DDR.
4 MR. ANG: That's another example where they -
5 cover many items with one DDR.
6 MR. VO: The reason I know that is when Alec 7 Fuller have trouble with that DDR he assigned about three 4
8 engineers to try to close that DDR. About one and one i
9 half months I have that documentation. They couldn't do l
10 it; they couldn't close it and he turned to me a specially 11 an assignment to me with one helper is Mr. KIrby and asked 12 me to close about one week and I did. And I keep, you 13 know, documents. I just finished to try to -- I'm not 14 close DDR but I try to issue some hanger modification or 15 some permanent way to cover the problem.
16 MR. ANG: This was correct work? Nobody told 17 you to do anything wrong?
18 MR. VO: No, sir. I keep in my mind anything I 19 have to sign carefully I review to interviewers what 20 particularly for a wcld I review for an STM for particular 21 material.
- 22 MR. ANG
- Are you saying we need to look at this I
1 ExHtBIT ('4 Page IS5E d -W '
20852.0 103 KSW {
l 1 DDR or not? I i
2 MR. VO: I'm just talking about brought up the 3 generic DDR they have so many.
i
(
4 MR. GUILD: '
I think one point you said that they 5 routinely use generic NCRs, DDRs that should have been !
~
6 addressed in a more control 1ed fashion' they would tell you l 1
7 you had to remember a long list of generic field reports .
{
8 to apply work procedure.
9 MR. VO: If you look under work procedure, 110, 10 revision 8, you will see about 12,000 --- I'm sorry, 1200 1
(
11 generic FCR and about almost a thousand RCI, generic RCI,
/ 12 that that's clarification requests to be applied to the 13 hanger installation program.
14 MR. ANG: Revision 87 i 15 MR. VO: Yes. 7 and 8.
16 MR. ANG: Any other examples of what you feel is 17 a breakdown of the quality assurance program at Shearon 18 Harris?
19 MR. VO: That's what the quality I'm talking 20 . quality is like some really care about deficiency and they 21 go into you know to write them up the power plant some 22 inspectors are willing to do that they might be stopped EXHIBIT (4 Fase g J. t ' Pases
.o <
20852.0 104 KSW l' like Vincent after he do that I don't know where he go he 2 quit or some kind of pressure and he go. He just started 3 about two months he got out from U.S. Navy and after two 4 months he go.
5 MR. ROBINSON: Who's this?
6 MR. VO: Vincent.
4 7 MR. ANG: Is he mentioned in here?
8 MR. VO: No, sir.
9 MR. GUILD: He's the inspector that worked with 10 you on the 210227 11 MR. VO: Yes.
12 MR. ANG: He's a OA inspector?
13 MR. VO: Yes.
14 MR. ANG: I theyght Buck Williams was the QA.
15 MR. VO: Yeah I think he's still there.
16 MR. ANG: I thoughts he was the QA surveillance 17 that worked with you on the 21022. Did Vincent also work 18 on that?
t 19 MR. VO: Yes, Vincent worked under his supervise.
20 MR. ANG: He worked under Buck Williams.
,' 21 MR. GUILD: They researched the PO together.
22 One clarification might be helpful. You mentioned that i
_XHIBIT (2)
Page M d
20852.0 KSW 105 l
you were instructed that you could not originate a DDR or 2 GCR. Would you explain that?
3 MR. VO: I beg your pardon.
4 MR. GUILD: You mentioned earlier that you were .
5 not allowed to issue a DDR or NCR7 i 6 MR. VO: No my job classification, my job 7
classification do not allow me to do that.
8 MR. GUILD: Why do you believe that?
? MR. VO: The job classification show that.
10 MR. GUILD: Were you ever told that you couldn't 11 do that?
12 MR. VO: I could if I just report the problem 13 you know by speed letter.
14 MR. GUILD: To your management.
15 MR. VO: Yes.
i 16 MR. ANG: In relation to that were you given any 17 QA training?
18 MR. VO: No I don't have Ok training.
20 MR. VO: Yes, but I do have training on the QA s
, 21 manual, sir I'm sorry I do have.
p.
22 MR. ANG: On the manual. Do you remember EXHIBIT (O page /Zf_of I @ Pages
20852.0 KSW 106 l anything in there that says anybody that finds a 2 discrepancy is obligated to report it?
3 MR. VO: Yes, I do. But in my field engineer 4 job, you know, classification, they don't say so. ,
5 MR. GUILD: When you found a deficiency such as 6 with the feed water pump fit up you asked how you were to-7 document it and your boss told you to write it on a speed 8 letter and give it to him?
9 MR. VO : - He would route it.
10 MR. ANG: Did your boss tell you or was this 11 common practice?
12 MR. VO: I come and ask him first. I say do you 13 want me to report this problem to Mr. E.E. Willett because 14 that's internal organization. I don't want OA catch the 15 problem. I want to fix, you know, first. And I ask him 16 what I have to do about that one. He told us me you know, 17 report to him by speed letter and he will route.
18 MR. ROBINSON: So you had problems with i
19 deficiencies that were going on that you observed and were 20 frustrated that not be at not be go able to properly 21 L report those deficiencies through your management?
22 MR. VO: Yes.
~
EXHIBIT (2)
Page #
e i
20852.0 107 '
KSW j 1 MR. ROBINSON: And yet you had the feeling you 2 didn't want to tell QA about it?
3 MR. VO: No. I just say at the first time you 4 say the first time when they start doing I want to fix .
5 first because they are not performing, yes, but after that 6 I did show to QA inspector but they you know they ignore 7 about that.
8 MR .' ROBINSON: You talked to a OA person about 9 that problem?
10 MR. VO: Inspector, I show to them the problem, 11 but I couldn't remember the name.
( 12 MR. ROBINSON: You don't know?
13 MR. ANG: That was my previous question. I beg 14 your pardon, I haven't asked my last question.
15 MR. ROBINSON: Go ahead. Were there any more on 16 the QA breakdown, any more examples?
i 17 MR. VO: That's as far as I know. I know 30 18 many deficiencies, but I don't know you know I don't have 19 much time to go to the QA just like I take my lunchtime to 20 see Mr. Buck Williams we talk on friendship.
r 21 MR. ANG: On page five you say there's a great L
22 deal of pressure on the construction inspection cXHIBIT 00 hage O d Y W
t 20852.0 108 KSW i.
1 organization which lacks the freedom and independent from 2 cost and scheduling considerations to effectively perform 3 their QA duties of identifying and documenting 4 deficiencies. Do you have any examples of situations !
5 where there was pressure on construction inspection? '
i 6 -
MR. VO: Yes. Back in 1982 you look on the CI 7 organization chart and how many inspector or,QA 8 organization chart how many inspectors perform at that 9 time and now you look back you know the organization you '
10 will see the differential about different names and f 11 different persons because the QA most inspectors are !
e b 12 Daniel employees and, you know, Daniel employees assigned 13 to CP&L under CP&L supervision. If you do something, if 14 they are raises up so much deficiencies and one way or 15 another they will out. !
J l
16 MR. ANG: You're saying the fact that the
[j 17 personnel were being changed from 1982 to now is telling 18 !
you that there is pressure on construction inspection. ;
19 MR. VO: If you look on that I think 90 percent !
(
20 the former construction inspectors -- I don't know where l
I 21 they go, but right now almost the new people in. I 22 MR. ANG: Do you have any specific examples of a s
- .NHiBIT (2.) (
,. age Hf of IIA Pages f
r r 20852.0 109 KSW l construction inspector saying "thes,e guys are telling me 2 not to write this"?
3 MR. VO: They say due to communication. I'm a 4 field engineer, I'm very close to them. We communicate .
5 every day. 12ey told me that, but I don't have evidence 6 to --
7 , MR . ROBINSON: Who told you that? -
8 MR. ANG: Can we have some names?
9 MR. VO: No, sir.
10 MR. ANG: You don't say anything about QC?.
11 MR. VO: QA-QC is same organization.
.- L 12 MR. ANG: However QC performs inspections on the 13 welds? !
I 15 MR. ANG: As far as pipe supports? !
16 MR. VO: You look on the DDR 1775, if, you know, 17 the QA surveillance found'some weld deficiency, the weld t
18 be go accepted by the QC and if, you know, NRC does not 19 issue the NRC meeting and the CP&L not perform, the 20 surveillance on the hanger program, that means the-first 21 two hangers being completely inspection shall be -
22 transferred to start up. Right? Are you follow me? I EXHIBIT}2)
Page / F of Pages i i
~ .. --
20852.0 llo KSW l MR. ANG: Not really. I'm trying to understand.
2 MR. VO: The QC involves the weld inspection, 3 right? We have-how, you know, many seismic hangers refer 4 to work procedure 110, revision a, Phase II, completion .
5 inspection, complete inspection. That means we will,' you 6 know, refer to Phase II we will transfer documentation of 7 inspection to the start up group.
4 8 MR. ANG: Are you saying there was pressure also 9 on OC?
10 MR. VO: Yes.
)
11 MR. - ANG : On what basis?
12 MR. VO: They sign off, but they are not --
13 deficiency they still sign off.
14 MR. ANG: I guess you're saying because they 15 sign off understanding there's pressure there because they 16 are signing off.
17 MR. VO: I don't know seems to me a lot of 18 pressure they put'on them, you know.
19 MR. ANG: They are CP&L employees?
20 MR. \ : They are CP&L employees.
~
21 MR. ANG: Any other examples?
22 MR. VO: No, sir.
T E.xh! bit (2) ~
pne NO of li4 Pager.
ig - v , - - , - ~ ,
20852.0 111 KSW l MR. ANG: I guess we got a lot of examples here.
2 If there's anything else we'd be glad to get them or look 3 at them or --
1 4 MR. GUILD: I think we're all very tired. -
5 MR. VO: In 1980 when I deem with the material 6 that's why I, you know --
7 MR. ANG: If you've got more, let's get them.
8 MR. ROBINSON: This is your plan --
9 MR. VO: This is back in 1980, because I do that 10 prepare that, you know, to control because I was assigned 11 by Tom French to order in and out material you know on g 12 site surplus material to like pipe spool marked for 13 identification, or some kind modification, O or non-Q, and 14 I do prepare the list to control to reflect what PO number, 15 how many material how many in how many out, and --
16 MR. ANG: What are you saying the problem with 17 this is?
18 MR. VO: No no problem, that's my performance.
19 MR. ROBINSON: I don't have any further 20 que,tions. Do you want to make any --
r 21 MR. GUILD: We talked during the break of the N
22 notion once you look at the transcript and reflect on your ry 5a..-;lBIT ge E L of( ' 4 ' # N E*
20852.0 112 KSW l notes if you have additional specific questions feed them 2 to us, and I know Chan has a number of other documents and 3
I'll get him to go through those and if there are any in 4 there that reflect concerns of his, make sure he gets .
5 those to you. I'll go through my notes to see if there 6 are places where clarification might be helpful-but I 7 think we've covered what.he's capable of covering or I'm
~
8 capable of thinking about this afternoon.
9 , MR. ROBINSON: If you have anything else you 10 want to say now --
11 MR. VO: No, sir.
12 MR. ROBINSON: This is not to say this is the 13 last time we'll be talking, because once I sit down and 14 review this I'll have some questions.
15 MR. VO: I am next week seeking a job. Again, I 16 don't know where I'm going.-
17 MR. GUILD: I might have said this to you before, 18 but let these gentlemen know where you're going.
19 MR. VO: I will do that.
20 (Discussion off the record.) j 21 MR. GUILD: 'If you just mention briefly to these u
22 gentlemen -- you expressed _to me some concerns about l l
_XHIBIT (A)
Page llA Of hS*
l l
L l
20852.0- 113 KSW l coming here today and fear for your safety. If you would 2 just mention that to them so they would have that in mind.
3 MR. VO: Before I went up to Charlotte to talk t
4 to my former supervisor because I would like to explain to
-(
5 him, you know, I'm, you know, the way I did, I really, you 6 know, sorry about that and he said, you know, you do it t
. 7 the right way, but because he even left the compan'y'he !
8 still told me,-you know, Chan, wherever you go let me know 9 where you are. And I come up because I don't want to lose 10 the friendship, you know, between him and me, and I come 11 up to explain the situation, and he said you do the 'right :
12 way even me we do the same way, but Chan you be carefully i 13 with the CP&L. I don't know what he mean and beside that j 14 any day I have 10 or 12 different phone calls when I pick 15 up the phone, you know, and they wait a little while say ;
i 16 " hello hello" and hang up and about then about you know 10 I i
17 i or 12 phone calls a day I don't know what happens. g i
18 MR. ROBINSON: You might want to get your phone 19 number changed. j i
.20-. MR. VO: It's not my phone number, sir. It's 1 1
21 not'in my name, sir.
22 MR. VO: That's the phone-number you can be .
l I
l r:NSIT(7J l
..:ge M of $ h&%
' 20852.0 114 KSW 1 reached at?
2- MR. VO: Yes.
4 3 MR. GUILD: It's not a listed phone number, 4 although I think it was listed on the DOL complaints, so ,
5 the company has had access to that number and his concern 6 -is that people at the site have been making those calls to 7 him so -- ,
8 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you very much.
9 (Whereupon, at 5:10 p.m., the interview was
.i 10 concluded.)
t 11
- l. 12 i 13 14 5
15 16 -
)
17 18 19 20 I 21 22 j
j EXHSIT (2) -
. eye ne fo //4 Pases
l 2
2085200 .
KSW l PROC){ DINGS MR. ROBINSON: Good afternoon, ladies and 2
3 gentlemen. My name is Larry L. Robinson. I am an 1
4 investigator with the Office of Investigations of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission of the United States. The 5
6 purpose of the meeting this afternoon is to hear concerns 7 of Mr. Chan Van Vo regarding the safety of the 8 construction of the Shearon Harris Nuclear Power Plant.
9 Also regarding his allegations of harassment intimidation by employees of Carolina Power and Light and also his 4
10 ;
4 11 concerns regarding possible fraudulent documentation 12 leading to material traceability questions. That is not .
13 all-inclusive, but those are some of the concerns that we 14 are interested in.
15 The location of this interview is at the ,
l Radisson Plaza Hotel, Raleigh, North Carolina. The date 16 17 of the interview is November 1st, 1984. Present at the l
18 interview are Mr. Chan Van Vo, former engineer for 19 Carolina Power and Light, formally employed at the Shearon- )
20 Harris nuclear power site, and Mr. Robert Guild -- are you ;
21 officially af filiated with the Government?
22 MR. GUILD: I'm counsel for Mr. Van Vo and I'm a I
r . -
4 12 20852.0 KSW i
21022 11, item No. 18. We were 1 MR. ROBINSON:
2 talking about the speed letter of July 18 in which he -
3' completed his Hanger Phase II verification checklists and submitted these by speed letter to Fuller and Willett and 4
~
5 we started talking about the problem of material -
6 traceability. I'm interested, particularly interested in s __
, 7 your comments in the affidavit about purchase order 21022.
I j 8 MR. VO: Yes.
9 MR. ROBINSON: Let me try to understand where 10 you were in the purchasing process at that time, okay? : >
! 11 MR. VO: Yes. t i
MR. ROBINSON; At this time, were you yourself ,
12 t 13 writing purchase orders?
14 MR. VO: No, sir. :
I 15 MR. ROBINSON:. Go ahead. t 16 MR. VO: I would like to point out at that time j i
17 refer to NRC Meeting No. 400-41-83-20 was issued on June 18 10, 1983, and with the hand note from Mr. John York, NRC ;
! 19 and my supervisor Mr. Alec Fuller, with his hand note
.20 assigned me to work with the CP&L QA surveillance on {
21 seismic to perform with the investigation department. l j
22 MR. ANG: Was this as a result of John York's
.- l
- i l
i i
13 20852.0 i KSW l item?
2 MR. VO: Yes. ,
3 MR. GUILD: Did you show the gentleman the !
i 4 meeting minutes? e e
i, 5 Yes, you have. :
s 6 MR. VO : That's right here. ,
7 MR. ROBINSON: My main concern here, Chan, is [
You !
8 the use of purchase order 21022 after it was voided.
t 9 said it was used after it was voided.
10 MR. VO: I don't know at that time I do not know -
/ f r
11 that PO was void. !
12 MR. GUILD: He didn't know at the time he :
13 started this it was void or existed but he'll explain to 14 you what -- how he learned what its status was. I i'
Mr. Fuller introduced to me with 15 MR. VO: .
16 Mr. Buck Williams, CP&L QA engineer, and he was a ,
I 17 supervisor for QA surveillance at that time to work with 18 me. And Mr. Buck Williams referred to Alec Fuller's !
i 19 request, you know, sho' wing the note, but Mr. Buck Williams 20 do different ways he say I do my way and you help me. I _
i 21 say I try as I could and he asked me to pull now select 50 i 22 packages, hanger packages being, you know, completely ,
l l
\
l l
l i
16 20852 0 KSW l MR. VO: And then I go back to my office and I
2 create a form and the report to my boss and my direct. i supervisor, Mr. Alec Fuller, is one of them.
1 3
~
4 MR. ANG: You reported all the surveillance r-5 findings. >
t 6 MR. VO: Yes, including my form 3 I create that {
7 form and my note and OS surveillance note attached.
f 8 MR. ANG: Were any nonconformances generated 9 after that?
10 MR. VO That's an office report to my - ;
~
11 supervisor and a OA different organization. ,
12 MR. ANG: Did QA generate any nonconformances as 1
13 a result of this.
14 MR. VO: Yes. t 15 MR. ANG: You've got copies of those.
16 MR. VO: Yes. ;
i 17 MR. ANG: Did you write up any nonconformances?
r MR. VO: No, sir, I'm a field engineer. I'm 18 19 technical support.,
s / .
hm You don't write up nonconformances. -s 5 MR. ANG:
4 20 21 MR. VO I don't have a right to do that, sir. ,
/ / t 22 MR. ANG: That's what you might have heard or l t
, .- . ~ , - - - - -
17 20852 0 KSW l
thought, but normally everybody on site has to write l 1
2 nonconformances if they see. !
It is CP&L policy. I'm field engineer 3 MR. VO: i
- 7 4 I'm just technical support and if I find something wrong I? ,
5 in the field only one thing I have right to issue is speed _ - .
6 1etter,to _my_, supervisor.
7 MR. ROBINSON: Did your supervisor tell you that 8 that's all you have?
9 MR. VO: Yes he asked me if you want to talk to 10 NRC on site I got to let him know what subject. ~
11 MR. ANG : He told you that?
MR. VO: Yes, 12 MR. ROBINSON : How about if you want to talk to 13 14 CP&L CI group?
15 MR. VO: Yeah, I do have right to talk to them.
16 MR. ROBINSON: You could talk to them without 17 necessarily, talking to your supervisor.
18 MR. VO: Yes.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Maybe I'm jumping ahead a little 20 bit here, but I want to get to this use of this voided 21 purchase order number, okay?
22 MR. VO: Yes.
i+
l 22 20852.0 ,
KSW 1 department, like, you know, in my experience the CP&L is i not very -- have a good coordination. Right now 2
4 3 mechanical department, they never have real good 4 coordination with electric or purchasing or they are reason they lack, 5 really separate together and that's one l 6 you know, coordination or communication.
When the people issue the PO they talked, that PO
- 7 1
8 material outside. If they did, you know, check back with 9 purchasing and they should not issue that material to the ,
10 field, that's why I'm taught.
Do I understand you to say that i i 11 MR. ROBINSON:
-- that when 12 purchasing would have told the field that 13 they first issued that PO they would have told the field C
- 14 that that was the PO to order the material on and then 15 purchasing cancelled that PO and didn't tell the field and 16 the field just kept using that PO? i 17 MR. VO: Yes.
- 18 MR. ROBINSON
- Do you have any indication --
i 19 know what I mean, indication? j i )
l 20 MR. VO: Yes.
f 21 MR. ROBINSON: Do you have any indication that ,
h 22 anyone from CP&L intentionally put that PO number on
' s
'1 i.
'1 e
i
!i
24 20852 0 KSW MR. ROBINSON: Do you think that there is any l
2 inferior grade steel in that plant now as a result, as,a 3 result of this mix-up or the use of this purchase order 4 number?
5 MR. VO: Yes, yes, and besides that, you know, 6 so many steel, you know, being upgrade and accepted )
e 7 without documentation.
= . --. _
8 MR. ROBINSON: Upgraded and substituted without s- ,_ _
9 documentation?
10 MR. VO: Yes.
11 MR. ROBINSON: And I mean specifically 12 pertaining to that PO number? .
13 MR. VO: No, beside that PO.
s 14 MR. ROBINSON: In addition to that PO number?
15 MR. ANG: How was the DDR finally resolved?
16 MR. VO: Yes, DDR 1775, 1795, and NRC 255.
18 MR. VO: Yes, and DDR 1776 and DDR 1784 right 19 here refer to that DDR, the PO number.
20 MR. ROBINSON: So can you say that on any --
b 21 were there specific hangers transferred in these DDRs?
22 MR. ANG: Yes?
~
t I
31 20852.0 KSW 1 high technology nuclear power plant we play with, you know, 2
uranium 235, we prevent some radiation, and how to, you 3 know, to use the proper material to make sure adequate, 4 you know, installation, and refer to TMI, two accidents 5
back in 1979, and I do concern that, and then I read the 6 article from Mr. Jim O'Reilly.
Like now, 7 Now I can tell why I do not care on Region 2.
8 see, like CP&L, when it is beginning until now from the _
9 beginning, they build the plant until June 1983, about 10 1400 or 1500 DDR being identified, and besides DDR[O U iiH~
~
c R 's 3be(( !
~
11 say that's nonconformance, and how many NRC'yteel g 12 nonconformance and how.many DDR, and still nonconforming 13 and are being, you know, identified from beginning to that 14 time.
15 And from June, 1983, the DDR number jump up to 2400.
16 only six months to December 1983, only six months, a
~
A 17 thousand DDRs being @ reading on the nuclear power plant, 18 and Mr. Vincent, when he issues these DDR, and one month 19 later. Right now, I don't know where Mr. Vincent, I don't 20 know what kind of pressure was put on him. I don't know 21 where he was, and I know one person, you know, in last 22 January, about January or February of 1984, a security
l 4
i 32
- 20852.0 KSW l inspector, is nickname " Tank" and his last name is Tink, i
1 l i
2 they call it his nickname --
3 MR. ANG: Tank, big guy probably.
4 MR. VO: That's why I say, I really don't know, ;
i 5 and his last name is Ward, W-a-r-d. If you don't follow 6 my pronounciation, I'm sorry, because I'm really sorry 7 about that. i
- 8 And one month, he been issue about a thousand NCR, only ,
9 ene month, and then they try to get him out of, you know, 10 inspection. You can check on that, and you can take away .
11 Mr. Vincent now and only six months from the 1500 number t
12 jumped to 2400 number, and I don .' -t ~know ~ - - - -how- - - many of them 8 . . . . .
13 are dispositions.
14 MR. ROBINSON: And this is the reason you don't r
4 15 have confidence in NRC, or this the reason you don't have i
i 16 confidence in CP&L? ;
17 MR. VO: The NRC should be, you know, tolerant j 18 to NRC -- to CP&L due to the building of the nuclear power ,
L 19 plant. I guarantee with you if right now.you can because J
of very glowing information, you know, about last week, [
20 --
t 21 right now 50 percent documentation, 50 percent component 22 and equipment, you know, on the RST program transferred - ~ - - - - ~ --
e
39 20852.0 KSW I have about 20 speed letters. 24 1 MR. VO w 2 MR. ROBINSON: One question about the materials that were supposedly received on PO 21022 Did you or 3
4 anyone ever find what PO those materials were received on?
MR. VO: You see, after, you know, that isa 5
6 special assignment. After my report, I don't have right 7 to go back to do this job.
8 MR. ROBINSON: So you don't know?
9 MR. VO: I don't know, but I do have a document.
10 The document CP&L refer to that speed letter issued to the ;
11 field back in 1980. And I have about 25 more same speed 12 letters, all the same PO number for different hangers.
13 MR. GUILD: Later, if you could, identify that i 14 so we can keep track of what we got. This one refers'to 15 PO 21022, appears to be July 3, 1983, speed letter. pp.ft, k3 16 MR. ROBINSON: Who's it to.
1 17 MR. VO: Mr. Wayne Harris. From Wayne Harris to 18 Gerald Corley.
19 MR. ANG: Appears to be a material requisition ,
20 from construction to purchasing to supply some plates for I
21 use as pipe support material. [
22 MR. VO: Yes. Mr. Wayne Harris, he's a i i
i t
o h
. - - - + - -.-- pt , ,w _
40 20852.0 4 KSW I mechanical senior engineer, CPEL field engineer. And Mr. j 1
2 Corley, he's Daniel's superintendent for hanger 3 construction. That's anything, you know, refer to Mr.
4 Wayne Harris issued to Mr. Corley to be performed.
I MR. ROBINSON: Do you think that Mr. Harris knew
- 5 1 6 that PO 21022 was void at that time?
I don't know, sir. If he know, he 7 MR. VO: !
l 8 u co_uldn't issue that. I don't think he know because he 9 issued not only one, but I say about 25 more. ;
10 MR. GUILD: I shculd point out that DDR 1775
~
11 indicates that that same purchase order number was listed 12 as a source of material for components on a number of l 13 hangers and lists by way of example several but appears on 14 its face to indicate there were a number of other hangers 15 that referenced the same PO number.
16 MR. ANG: What is the significance of the wrong 17 PO number being used or ordered to you, Mr. Vo? You can't 18 trace the material to the purchase order, do you think 19 that wrong material could have been used?
20 MR. VO: The reason the CP&L organization in the 21 beginning, you see any material shipped on site even some, 22 you know, they have a QA/QC procedure, particularly Q
43 20852.0 KSW that you can get anything much worse, at lease not at 1
2 Shearon Harris, than 836.
I don't know about that. I say beside 3 MR. VO m -
4 base plate they have some tube steel like without That's what I 5 certification and test and heat number.
6 have been using.
7 MR. . ANG : But again, let me understand. Is 8 there any material on site that is less than 836 or does 9 not have all this documentation on it that MR. VO: I don't know, sir. They have so many 10 -
11 different sources materials.
12 MR. ANG: If they did make a mistake or even if 13 they use something other than PO 21022, they may still 14 have used the right material, you know, the number, the That's something we 15 purchase order number might be wrong.
16 need to look at, but you have to recognize, though, that a 17 case of structural steel 836 normally is very common.
18 MR. VO: Very common.
19 MR. ANG: I don't think there's anything much l
20 less than that.
21 MR. VO: I agree with you, sir.
22 MR. ROBINSON: To kind of repeat what I asked
~
l -
i l
l I
r
46 20852.0 KSW MR. VO: The CPEL organization for your l
2 information will show all right here, will show the 3 situation af ter the stop work order. CPEL started to re --
4 MR. ANG: Before you get too far, Mr. Guild tried several times what's the significance of this 5
6 package?
MR. VO: I'm going there now, sir. That will go 7
8 with this one. The CP&L, the seismic hanger no more 9 performance in the field.
10 MR. ANG: I beg your pardon?
I 11 MR. VO: The seismic hanger is no more stop 12 performance. .
13 MR. ANG : Don't install, don't inspect any more ;
i 14 pipe supports for now? That's what the stop work order 15 was?
16 MR. VO: They will revise the procedure, what i
17 procedure work procedure 110, rev 8, including 18 nonconformance procedure.
DDR slball be superceded. In 19 Alec Fuller's department, they tried to create the new l t
20 package of hanger reflect to work procedure 110, revision 21 8, and they started to destroy all the, inadequate CMR and I
22 particularly some hanger package because the new package__
N r ,,,Jfy/j7 h all' f I
f I
h
47 20852 0 KSW l
of hangers is completely different with existing package.
MR. ROBINSON: Who destroyed all the previous 2
3 CMRs?
4 MR. VO: The reason I found the problem due to 5 my performance, the field engineer, at that time, Mr. Alec Fuller say, from now on, you no more in your office.
You 6
! 7 a field engineer. When you come up to office, go out to the field, and you have right come back at lunchtime. And 8
! 9 after lunch, go back to the field until the second whistle, 10 and I out of due to technical support for the field for ~
11 nonseismic hanger, nonseismic hanger, and we need some 12 material, you know, nonseismic material, and I went to the 13 warehouse.
14 When I went to the warehouse to search some tube steel 15 or some other kind of steel and some angle iron, I saw, 16 you know, three people very close to -- engineers very 17 close to Alec Fuller -- walk together in the warehouse, 18 and I found that -- these papers in the trash can. And I 19 take -- this is wintertime, cold, and I took, put my 20 jacket. I just keep for my documentation.
21 MR. GUILD: How many hanger packages were in the 22 trash? -
e
=- - - ~ _
49 20852.0 f KSW 1 1 MR. ROBINSON: This was Mr. Fuller and three of L his friends or -- l 2
Three of his employees. I don't know 3 MR. VO:
i 4 who order that.
5 MR. GUILD: Fuller wasn't there?
6 MR. VO: Fuller wasn't there. ,
7 MR. GUILD: Who were the three people?
8 MR. VO: Mr. Paul Howard, and -- excuse me, I go I
9 back to organization because very hard for me to remember !
l 10 the name.
11 MR. ROBINSON : Okay.
12 MR. VO: I think Mr. Fulcher.
' l 13 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, anybody else?
14 MR. VO: The third guy like a warehouse guy. I 15 couldn't remember the name, sir.
16 MR. ROBINSON: And they -- you did you see them l l
17 throw documents in the trash can? l MR. VO: !!o , sir. I didn't say so. ;
18 I
19 MR. ROBINSON: But soon af ter you saw them 20 walking by the trash can --
21 MR. VO: They were in there. They were inside 22 the warehouse. The trash can was near the surplus
- i h
l l
, l l
50 20852.0 KSW l material.
MR. ROBINSON: Is there any reason that these 2
3 CMRs should be destroyed?
MR. VO: I don't know, sir.
4 5 MR. ANG: These are pipe support inspection.
6 MR. ROBINSON: Did you pull these out of the 7 trash can too? !
l 8 MR. VO: Yes. l 1
9 MR. ROBINSON: And this was because they were 10 now going into work procedure revision 9 and starting a :
11 new inspection procedure or -- .
12 MR. VO: Yes. The work procedure 110, revision I 1, revision 0, to revision 8. Still revision, revision 8, 13 i
still change a little bit due to process. Still give 14 15 three phase for inspection. And the work procedure 110, i
I 16 revision 9, is a 100 percent completely changed. It's no more phane 1, phase 2 or phase 3. The field engineer 17 1 18 turned to me the initial inspection. If you look reveal f 19 on day work procedure, you will see it.
20 MR. ANG: That's not exactly what the --
21 MR. ROBINSON: And they were discarding hanger 22 packages that were inspected under 0 through 8 or --
~ 1
=
l 3
1 k.___._-.
53 20852 0 KSW 1
1 into the warehouse like tube steel, I-beam, base plate, 2 telescope, rigid telescope, and I-beam, refer to new 3 procedure allow if something no heat number, stamped on the stamp on the material. Put the Delta 36, that should i 4 be the proper material, and that, you know, that NCR shows 4
5 6 wnat the performance, even they put the Delta 36 on the 7 material.
8 MR. ANG: What is your main concern about those 9 records in the trash can?
MR. VO I don't know. I know that's improper 10
~
l 11 when you destroy, you know, something. .The paper need to l
12 be stay even you have_a..new procedure, they should be stay 13 in the package. Why, you know, I don't know, maybe they 4
14 have a different organization, you know, different
! 15 planning, I don't know._
16 MR. ROBINSON: Af ter these were destroyed there i
17 was no way t,o reconstruct these, no copies of any of these?
18 MR. VO: That's original they destroyed. That 19 means they don't have documentation.
i 20 MR. ANG: The real proof is the pipe suppor'.
21 gets installed. When you look at that, there's no way 22 it's going to be changed, and you inspect that pipe I
I
- , -- -. s - , - -
\
l l l I 55 20852 0 I KSW l MR. GUILD: Sure.
2 MR. ANG: You don't know that there has been a 3 falsification of records or that records that were 4 required have not been kept, it's just that the concern 5 over the control is there because of this.
MR. GUILD: We see evidence that quality 6
7 documents have been destroyed. Maybe they put them on Maybe there are Xerox copies. Maybe there's a i 8 microfilm.
9 controlled way of destroying these. We don't know.
10 MR. ROBINSON: When did you find these? '
11 MR. VO: November of 1983, sir.
12 MR. ROBINSON: Where?
13 MR. VO: Surplus warehouse, surplus material 14 warehouse, warehouse 6. That means 1234 56. _
15 MR. ROBINSON: Warehouse 6 trash can. Okay.
16 MR. GUILD: Again, these were -- was a 17 200-gallon container.
18 MR. VO Yeah.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Full of this same type of stuff?
20 MR. VO: They have so many things in there, not 21 particularly one stuff. They have so different.
22 MR. ROBINSON: Did you just kind of walk by and
. .~
~- - - _
59 20852.0 KSW the right guide and should be performed reflect to that.
l My question, do they go to the right guide. To the CP.EL j 2
3 performance like that, is it not violation regular guide 4 or are they going by the regular guide.
5 MR. ANG: We want all you think we need to know, 6 get all that information.
7 MR. VO: You are professionals. You know 8 exactly what your NRC issue to the utility. I don't need 9 to repeat about that.
MR. ROBINSON: We are aware of the significance 10 11 of certain facts that you may present to us from our 12 standpoint, but we're interested in the significance of 13 those facts from your angle too.
14 MR. VO: I do what I could, but the point I did 15 not bring out the problem because I think, you know, you 16 know exactly whether they are matched with the appendix B 17 or not matched with appendix B.
18 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, continue.
19 MR. VO: In November and December 2d, the two DDR numbers before, they supersede the DDR procedure. The 20 -.
21 point I would like to point out, the number right there.
22 MR. ANG: DDR 2317 and 2327.
k
( -
60 20852.0 KSW l MR. ROBINSON: Are you just pointing out the C
2 number to identify the paper or do you have a significance l 3 to -- ;
l 4 MR. VO: No, that's seismic, you know, i f
i 5 deficiency about HVAC, and I would like to supply one more 6 information. Due to I have so many friends on site, due t
7 to conversation with them, they have ordered, you know, t
8 when they stop work on the hanger, the OA inspector no 9 more, you know, try to cut down the number of deficiency f
10 on noncompliance to be issued. If they found something 11 wrong, the best way to do is by interoffice memorandum, 12 and right here the memorandum on October 10._ I really f 13 don't know NRC have that memorandum. _
14 MR. ANG: This is a QA surveillance report?
15 MR. ROBINSON: Number 83860.
i 16 MR. ANG: Regarding pipe hanger installation, I
17 preliminary.
I 18 MR. ROBINSON: On these two DDRs, Mr. Vo, are 1 l
19 you trying to indicate that you don't think they were I,
li 20 dispositioned or -- q 21 MR. VO: I don't know they are dispositions or 22 not. Anything in the QA organization. The DDR just 1
n l
I' L
61 !
20852 0 f KSW 1
supplied from a friend of mine who was a QA inspector. i MR. ROBINSON: You're supplying this to us to ,
2 3 guide us to a potential problem? !
4 MR. VO: No, I'm not to guide you to do the job >
5 because you know better than I am. ,
6 MR. ROBINSON: No , no. We --
MR. VO: I would like to point right here the 7
8 number of DDR, you know, due to the June, 1983, to 9 November 1983 for inspection, and the DDR number and what .
10 the safety injection piping, they have so many like DDR -
1 11 1914 issued 825883 for safety injection piping, for valve ,
12 inspection, for pipe hanger, for anything, I would supply.
s 13 I do not know which one are dispositioned.
4 MR. ROBINSON: Okay. But like I said, you are 14 15 giving this to us for our -- for us to look at the 16 integrity of this installation? {
No, for your information. I would say l 17 MR. VO:
I DDR 18 like to point a number because after the procedure, 19 lpiocedure being superceded and the NCR, the new procedure _
i 20 _was come up to take place and to go back the number 001
, 21 and no more DDR on January --
22 MR. ROBINSON: So the number was significant.
I
62 20852 0 KSW 1 MR. VO: Right here, the one I just gave to you, 2 right here, right now DDR no more in at Shearon Harris nuclear power plant. The reason I know exactly. They are 3
4 a threat to be like Zimmer because if, you know, in 5 December, 1983, you try to ask director of the QA, CP&L QA 6 how many DDR being issued and how many NCR being issued 7 and how many DDR being issued, I think the number should come up approximately over 4000. And now they go back, 8
9 you know, with the new procedure, they go back again to 10 number one.
11 MR. ROBINSON: And do you think or do you know l 12 they destroyed the -- I 13 MR. VO: No, they cannot destroy it. They got 14 to be keep in the records. I don't think they couldn't 15 destroy that nonconformance.
16 MR. ROBINSON: So even though they changed the
- 17 numbering system to maybe what, show that there were not 18 very many nonconformances in Shearon Harris, that there 19 were 4000_up to that point when they changed the number?
20 MR. VO: Because I know exactly Mr. Buck 21 Williams, he was a former mechanical engineer from TVA, 22 and he very good. He experienced in the QA QC field very 5
f i
i
65 2085200 KSW That forwards the QA surveillance report, which is l about?
2 a formal QA document.
MR. GUILD: But it's not an NCR or deficiency 3
1 4 report and seems to reflect a large number of deficiencies.
5 MR. ANG: Yes.
6 MR. GUILD: Maybe there are NCRs or deficiency 7 reports out there. We just don't know.
8 MR. ROBINSON: Do you have a line you want to 9 continue on now?
10 MR. VO: Yeah, the last one documentation I brought today is about my speed letter to my supervisor 11 l
12 about the condition of the pump.
13 MR. ROBINSON: Condition of the pump? Okay, 14 yes.
MR. ROBINSON: This is a speed letter to Alec 15
, 16 Fuller from Van Vo Davis.
17 MR. VO: Yes.
18 MR. ROBINSON: Dated 8-25-82, regarding extreme loads on the steam generator feed pump. Why don't you go 19 20 ahead and tell us --
21 MR. VO: I just would like the information the 22 time I have been informed to load impose on the feed pump
84 20852 0 .
KSW I work. I need l you know, more than money, and anyway, 2
that kind of atmosphere and attitude and you will see.in
' 3 my recommendation and promotion from CP&L how attitude I 4 am.
And even two days ago I come back in, J. A. Jones, I 5
6 talk to my former supervisor, Thomas French. Mr. French is a very leadership and very organized CP&L employee, and 7
8 Mr. Willett take over, and he being seven years with CPEL, his house in Raleigh. He have his wife and his kids. He 9
10 had to quit his job to move his house to Charlotte to work l 11 with J. A. Jones, and now he was a consultant. He back 12 and forth in the Shearon Harris nuclear power plant, and 13 he told me, Chan, you know in my mind very strange. I'm 14 asking Tom maybe you know more than I am, why the 15 beginning we do very good and then the CP&L organization 16 called Duke Power come to Harris site,,and Tom told me 17 they are afraid.
18 MR. ANG: Did they come in in a resident 19 engineering outfit or in the Harris plant engineering 20 outfit? Your construction outfit is the resident 21 engineering outfit, field engineers?
22 MR. VO: Yes.
)
l
98 20852 0 KSW !
handle the problem. That's why my objective that's what ,
I i l
2 I'm willing to do when I war- CP&L employee. l MR. ANG: You don't have any other examples l 3 i I
4 where you were encouraged to look away. t 5 MR. VO: Yes I called Mr. I have one DR talking l l
6 -
about a bolt and nut.
i 7 MR. ANG: Non-O being used fo..r O m_aterial.
inn pipe supports. ;
8 MR. ANG:
=---
l 9 MR. VO: The pipe support on anything, on flange, -
~
10 and I call Dr. Elleman,._
11 MR. GUILD: He's the vice-president for nuclear 12 safety in the company. ,
13 MR. VO: Three weeks later he called me back.
14 He say that is safe and after investigation he said it's 15 safe, that's all.
16 MR. ANG: Did you disagree with that?
MR. VO: I didn't agree with him.
17 .
18 MR. ANG: You disagreed with him.
19 MR. VO: Yes, but when he's the vice-president 20 he says safe and he's in safety.
21 , MR. ANG: You wouldn't have a copy of that DR,
~ 22 - would you?
4
~ , _ .
99 20852 0 KSW l . MR. VO: I have it at home.
MR. ANG: Can we get the number off of it?
2 3 MR. ROBINSON: You can find the number?
4 MR. ANG: Just give us the number. That's all 5 we need. Any other examples?
MR. VO: No, sir.
6 7 MR. ANG: On page 15 you say I have very serious 8 . concerns regarding the breakdown of quality assurance at You've given us 9 the Shearon Harris Nuclear Power Plant.
this example. Are there any others?
10 :
11 MR. VO: Like some, you know, if you need I will' _
i 12 supply to you one, you know, DDR, 36 page.
13 MR. ANG: You say that's a breakdown of the 14 quality assurance?
15 MR. VO: Some problem should be issue DDR !
16 nonconformance like I just give to you like one memorandum.
17 MR. ANG: Can you give me the number of that DDR7 18 MR. VO : You got the 36-page DDR7 19 MR. ANG: I don't need a copy, I just need the 20 number.
21 MR. VO: So many problems if you look on the 22 speed letter they took the deficiencies by speed letter.
100 20852 0 KSW f
1 MR. ANG: This DDR should have been written up as 2 an NCR7 3
MR. VO: Should be done officially, but they [
l I
4 don't do that.
5 MR. ANG: The 36-page DDR, what's the problem ,
6 with that?
7 MR. VO: They go over about a hundred problems DDRs like a book you 8 they don't want to issue some DDRs.
9 know, like a procedure. ,
10 MR. ROBINSON: Let's just stop for a minute.
MR. GUILD: You didn't find the 36-page DDR, did
- 11 ,
l 12 you?
I didn't bring with me. I know exactly 13 MR. VO:
14 I did not.
15 MR. ANG: Can you tell ea the number later on?
16 MR. VO : Yes, I will.
17 MR. VO: Like you see right here, like a design, h l
due to the main steam and feed water, in the turbine 18 ;
i 19 building, when they are lack of documentation and 20 inspection, and Ebasco to declassification or Maybe 21 reclassification to be from nonseismic to seismic.
22 I make a mistake because of my language, refer to Ebasco i
}
i
\
103 20852 0 KSW :
1 DDR or not?
2 MR. VO: I'm just talking about brought up the ,
k 3 generic DDR they have so many.
4 MR. GUILD: I think one point you said that they 5 routinely use generic NCRs, DDRs that should have been
[
6 addressed in a more controlled fashion they would tell you 7 you had to remember a long list of generic field reports 8 to apply work procedure.
9 MR. VO: If you look under work procedure, 110, revision 8, you will see about 12,000 --- I'm sorry, 1200 10- A i
11 generic FCR and about almost a thousand -RCI, generic RCI, 12 that that's clarificati,on requests to be applied to the 13 hanger installation program.
14 MR. ANG: Revision 87 ,
15 MR. VO: Yes. 7 and 8.
16 MR. ANG: Any other examples of what you feel is 17 a breakdown of the quality assurance program at Shearon 18 Harris?
19 MR. VO: That's what the quality I'm talking 20 quality is like some really care about deficiency and they some 21 go into you know to write them up the power plant 22 4.nspectors are willing to do that they might be stopped
i 1
105 !
20852.0 '
KSW ,
1 you were instructed that you could not originate a DDR or 2 NCR. Would you explain that?
MR. VO: I beg your pardon.
3 MR. GUILD: You mentioned earlier that you were 4 __
5 not allowed to issue a DDR or NCR?
6 MR. VO: No my job classification, my job 7 classification do not allow me to do that.
8 MR. GUILD: Why do you believe that?
9 MR. VO: The job classification show that. _
10 MR. GUILD: Were you ever told that you couldn't
- 11 do that?
12 MR. VO: I could if I just report the problem 13 you know by speed letter.
14 MR. GUILD: To your management.
15 MR. VO: Yes.
16 MR. ANG: In relation to that were you given any 17 QA training?
18 Kk. VO: No I don't have QA training.
20 MR. VO: Yes, but I do have training on the QA 21 manual, sir. I'm sorry I do have.
22 MR. ANG: On the manual. Do you remember
.~
l
" .n., -
108 20852.0 KSW from l organization which lacks the freedom and independent 2
cost and scheduling considerations to effectively perf.orm 3
their QA duties of identifying and documenting 4 deficiencies. Do you have any examples of situations 5 where there was pressure on construction inspection?
6 MR. VO: Yes. Back in 1982 you look on the CI 7 organization chart and how many inspector or QA 8 organization chart how many inspectors perform at that 9 time and now you look back you know the organization you 10 will see the differential about different names and .
11 different persons because the QA most inspectors are 12 Daniel employees and, you know, Daniel employees assigned 13 to CP&L under CP&L supervision. If you do something, if 14 they are raises up so much deficiencies and one way or 15 another they will out.
16 MR. ANG : You're saying the fact that the 17 personnel were being changed from 1982 to now is telling 18 you that there is pressure on construction inspection.
19 MR. VO: If you look on that I think 90 percent J 20 the former construction inspectors -- I don't know where 21 they go, but right now almost the new people in.
22 MR. ANG : Do you have any specific examples of a
.~
i
CR20852.0 1,I
{
KSW/ojg '
l UNITED STATES OF AMERICA BEFORE THE 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 INVESTIGATIVE INTERVIEW 5
Radisson Plaza Hotel.
6 Raleigh, North Carolina 7 Thursday, November 1, 1984 1:00 p.m.
8 ;
5 9 PRESENT: l 10 CHAN VAN VO, Interviewee NRC Staff: l I2 LARRY L. ROBINSON, Investigator Office of Investigations 13 Region II - Atlanta WILLIAM P. ANG, Inspector, NRC 14 ROBERT GUILD, ESQ.
15
! On behalf of Chan van Vo.
Also Present:
l BETSY M. LEVITAS 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 wreseres neooriers, inc.
25 U+ l1
l 2 l 20852.0 KSW 1 1 EEESEEE1EEE MR. ROBINSON: Good afternoon, ladies and 2
3 gentlemen. My name is Larry L. Robinson. I am an 4 investigator with the office of Investigations of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission of the United States. The 5
6 purpose of the meeting this afternoon is to hear concerns 7 of Mr. Chan Van Vo regarding the safety of the 8 construction of the Shearon Harris Nuclear Power Plant.
9 Also regarding his allegations of harassment intimidation 10 by employees of Carolina Power and Light and also his 11 concerns regarding possible fraudulent documentation 12 leading to material traceability questions. That is not 13 all-inclusive, but those are some of the concerns that we 14 are interested in.
15 The location of this interview is at the 16 Radisson Plaza Hotel, Raleigh, North Carolina. The date 17 of the interview is November 1st, 1984. Present at the 18 interview are Mr. Chan Van Vo, former engineer for 19 Carolina Power and Light, formally employed at the Shearon 20 Harris nuclear power site, and Mr. Robert Guild -- are you 21 officially affiliated with the Government?
22 MR. GUILD: I'm counsel for Mr. Van Vo and I'm a b
3 I 20852.0 KSW
)
i l
1 representative of the Government Accountability Project. l 2 MR. ROBINSON: Mr. William P. Ang, an engineer 3 with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission and a 4 representative of the division of reactor safety, region 2.
5 And Kathie S. Weller, court reporter.
6 Mr. Vo, what I would like to do first, what I 7 have here, is a 16-page document that is purported to be 8 an affidavit that you submitted outlining your basic 9 concerns. What I want you to do is to examine this 10 document and see if it is in fact your affidavit. , ,
11 MR. VO: Yes, I do have a copy.
12 MR. ROBINSON: If you would, just kind of go 13 through it and make sure that it's -- any notes in the 14 column are notes that would have been placed there by NRC 15 representatives having received the affidavit.
16 MR. GUILD: Why don't you go page by page and 17 make sure it's all there. If you want to compare it to 18 your own copy to make sure it's a complete copy --
19 MR. VO: No, I remember.
20 MR. ROBINSON: Betsy, for the record, you're 21 official affiliation?
22 MS. LEVITAS: I have been helping with GAP and
4 20852.0 KSW 1 the Intervenors.
2 MR. ANG: Are you affiliated with GAP or --
MS. LEVITAS: No I'm a volunteer, a professional 3
4 volunteer.
5 MR. ROBINSON: Let the record reflect that 6 Ms. Levitas is in the meeting to assist Mr. Guild at 7 Mr. Guild's direction.
8 MR. GUILD: While Chan is reading his affidavit let me make a statement for the record. Larry, you and I 9
10 had a conversation the other day and part of the _a 11 conversation was sort of.in terms of ground rules. I 12 informed Mr. Van Vo th,at the subject of the interview 13 would be essentially the items that you specified and that 14 is what I understood to be the Office of Investigations 15 interests and off the top in any event the harassment 16 intimidation, the documentation issues, and I think he's 17 prepared specifically to deal with the documentation 18 issues in particular. He's brought a number of documents 19 with him that I know he wants to share with you and I 20 think Chan told me he.made Xeroxes of them so you can have H21 his copies.
22 MR. ROBINSON: That's beautiful.
4:
5
, 20852.0 KSW l MR. ANG: Many of my questions -- could we get 2 copies of some of the things he was referring to because 3 if we' re going to inspect and investigate them we'd like i 4 to have copies to work with.
5 MR. GUILD: Otherwise what I said to him was,
! 6 Bill, there were a number of other things referred to in 7 his affidavit. He brought some documents with him, he may 8 have more. To the extent that you get to an area of 9 interest that requires some more detail he'll be able to 10 flag that, I assume, and cay I can get you some more :
11 documents or some more detail on that.
12 MR. ANG: If possible we'd like to in the same 13 subject area try to get everything so that once we look at 14 his -- we look at everything rather than in parts and-15 pieces and coming back and forth several times. More 16 efficient that way.
i 17 MR. GUILD: We've had limited time to prepare so 18 I've informed Chan that he should concentrate on the areas 19 that I understood we were going to be talking about. If ;
)
20 we need more detail I would like to have'the opportunity l 21 to get you that additional information.
22 MR. ANG: Sure you always have that.
- kh t
6 20852.0 KSW 1 MR. GUILD: The other thing we talked about was 2 we understood that this interview is going to be 3 transcribed and a copy would be made available to 4 Mr. Van Vo and myself.
5 MR. ROBINSON: I'll make a copy available to 6 Mr. Van Vo and he can do what he wishes to with the 1
7 transcript.
8 (Discussion off the record.)
9 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, Mr. Vo, this is an accurate 10 representation of your affidavit? "
11 MR. VO: Yes.
l 12 MR. ROBINSON: Mr. Vo, do you have any 13 objections to being sworn to the testimony you're going to 14 give this afternoon?
15 MR. VO: No objection. I only have one I would 16 like to point to the newspaper refer to Mr. Vo and I would 17 like to give,it to you. My recommendation, and here's the 1
18 copy of the CP&L assignment, how they put the pressure and 19 intimidation my job.
20 MR. GUILD: Chan, the newspaper article you 21 identified, you told these gentlemen about before we 22 started on the record, but I think the. concern that you
7 20852.0 KSW I
1 mentioned was a quotation of a NRC staff lawyer that was 2 what you were concerned about?
3 MR. VO: No, I would like feedback here CP&L 4 recommendation all of the recommendation official 5 promotion.
6 MR. ROBINSON: Commendations?
7 MR. VO: Recommendations.
8 MR. ROBINSON: Okay.
9 MR. ANG: If I could understand you, you wish to 10 clarify this by giving your CP&L recommendations that were :
11 given to you as part of that or --
12 MR. VO: Yeah, to show what the CP&L when they 13 terminate my job. Here's the probationary status.
14 MR. ROBINSON: Are you providing this for us to 15 keep?
16 MR. VO: Yes.
17 MR. ANG: The only thing I hope you understand I 18 don't believe we're here for this.
19 MR. VO: I know that, yes.
.20 MR. ANG: We're here to look into the items you 21 sent to us on the affidavit and we'd like to clarify some 22 of the things in there.
T
8 20852.0 KSW MR. GUILD: The concern I heard him express 1
^
2 before we went on the record, Mr. Bath, the NRC staff 3 counsel, is quoted in the Raleigh newspaper saying we're 4 investigating Mr. Van Vo and I think he's expressed to me 5 and you all that NRC ought to be ir.vestigating his 6 concerns and not him and he has r,ome unease about why they 7 are focusing on him and not his concerns.
It's a fair question. We are NRC, but 8 MR. ANG:
9 we're investigating your concerns now.
10 MR. ROBINSON: I understand Mr. Vo's concern and a 11 I accept the newspaper article and his recommendations for 12 our information. Does this have anything to do with -- do 13 you have any reluctance to swearing to the information 14 you're giving us this afternoon?
15 MR. VO: Yeah, that's a part because they refer 16 to that to show that the promotion, you know, in 17 contradiction of what the probationary status.
18 MR. GUILD: I don't believe he understands the 19 question about swearing. We discussed this a moment ago 20 and we understood this was going to be a transcribed 21 interview but in order to encourage a freer exchange of 22 information so I don't have to jump in all the time as his
1 9
20852.0 KSW 1 counsel the interview would be unsworn.
MR. ROBINSON: We can do it that way if you 2
would prefer it that way Mr. Vo. You have a problem with 3
4 swearing to the information you're going to give us today?
5 MR. VO: What do you mean?
6 MR. ROBINSON: Swearing that what you're going 7 to tell us is the truth.
MR. GUILD: Let's clarify this right now. Larry, 8
9 when we agreed on a ground rule the ground rule was 10 clearly that this was to be a unsworn statement. That's l
11 for very clear reasons and the reasons don't have anything 12 to do with the confidence that you're going to attribute i
13 to what Mr. Van Vo is going to say. They have to do with 14 the formality of the document you're producing and the 15 fact that he has a legul claim pending against the 16 Carolina Power and Light Company, the fact that he has 17 sought to testify before the Atomic Safety and Licensing 18 Board.
4 l
19 Because he has legal interests involved in what he may 20 say to you today, if it's your position that you want a 21 sworn interview then we at each point will have to weigh 22 the questions that are put and I'll have to have an k
1
l 10 l 20852.0 KSW l opportunity to advise Mr. Van Vo about the significance of 2 question as it bears on his legal rights and his claims, 3 the Department of Labor claim the operating license claim:
4 I have an obligation to protect his legal interests.
5 That's why I'm here.
6 I thought we had already plowed this ground and you 7 understood my interests in trying te have this be an 8 informal and freer exchange of information where I would 9 not have to be weighing each question for those purposes.
10 Has nothing to do with the truthfulnesa or veracity of his -
11 answers but if you insist on having a sworn statement 12 which is inconsistent with our discussion I would like the 13 record to reflect that and we'll have to be more 14 cumbersome about this so I can look out for his legal' 15 interests.
16 MR. ROBINSON: We didn't talk about the 17 cumbersomeness of the discussion as it related to being a 18 sworn statement or not, we just talked about free flow of 19 information and feeling of tenseness, you might say, and 20 discomfort. We didn't talk about the mechanics of you 21 having to advise him of the weight of each question as it 22 relates to his appeal before Labor and the Atomic Safely 80
i
'l 11 20852.0 !
KSW l appeal. We didn't talk about that type of mechanics when 2 we conversed.
3 My purpose in -- our procedure when interviewing an 4 alleger for the initial time is to take a sworn statement.
5 Now as we talked, I'm not going to insist that we take a 6 sworn statement, not at all, but to me it would be a 7 preferable thing. It has nothing -- and this also has nothing to to do with the veracity of the statement. But ll 8 9 I just want you to understand that for the record too.
MR. GUILD: Let's go off the record a second.
! 10 y -
11 (Discussion off the record.)
MR. ROBINSON: Let the record reflect that the 4
12
- 13 statement taken from Mr. Vo this afternoon will be an f
a 14 ic'scmal statement, an interview in the normal course of
- 15 investigative business rather than a sworn statement.
16 Okay, Chan, I would like to kind of start in the 17 middle or toward the end of the affidavit.
18 MR. VO: Yes.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Going toward your concerns about !
l 20 purchase order.
21 MR. GUILD: Chan, do you have a copy of your 22 affidavit that's yours?
1 il !
~ 12 20852.0 KSW MR. ROBINSON: 21022. 11, item No. 18. We were 1 ,
2 talking about the speed letter of July 18 in which he 3 completed his Hanger Phase II verification checklists and 4 e'abmitted these by speed letter to Fuller and Willett and 5 we started talking about the problem of material 6 traceability. I'm interested, particularly interested in i 7 your comments in the affidavit about purchase order 21022.
4 8 MR. VO: Yes.
I 9 MR. ROBINSON:. Let me try to understand where 10 you were in the purchasing process at that time, okay? "
11 MR. VO: Yes.
12 MR. ROBINSON; At this time, were you yourself l 13 writing purchase orders?
14 MR. VO: No,. sir. .
2
~
i 15 MR. ROBINSON:. Go ahead.
l 16 MR. VO: I would like to point out at that time 1 17 refer to NRC Meeting No. 400-41-83-20 was issued on June 4
18 10, 1983, and with the hand note from Mr. John York,. NRC 19 and my supervisor Mr. Alec Fuller, with his hand note l
! .20 assigned me to work with the CPEL QA surveillance on 21 seismic to perform with the investigation department.
22 MR. ANG: Was this as a result of John York's l gs-
13 20852.0 KSW l item?
2 MR. VO: Yes.
3 MR. GUILD: Did you show the gentleman the 4 meeting minutes?
5 Yes, you have.
6 MR. VO: That's right here.
7 MR. ROBINSON: My main concern here, Chan, is 8 the use of purchase order 21022 after it was voided. You 9 said it was used after it was voided.
10 MR. VO: I don't know at that time I do not know t
11 that PO was void.
12 MR. GUILD: He didn't know at the time he 13 started this it was void or existed but he'll explain to 14 you what -- how he learned what its status was.
15 MR. VO: Mr. Fuller introduced to me with 16 Mr. Buck Williams, CPEL QA engineer, and he was a 17 supervisor for QA surveillance at that time to work with 18 me. And Mr. Buck Williams referred to Alec Fuller's 19 request, you know, showing the note, but Mr. Buck Williams 20 do different ways he say I do my way and you help me. I 21 say I try as I could and he asked me to pull now select 50 22 packages, hanger packages being, you know, completely
14 20852.0 Ksw 1 Phase II inspection, refer to work procedure 110 revision 2 8.
3 MR. ANG: These were randomly selected?
4 MR. VO: Yes.
5 MR. ANG: Buck Williams or you selected them?
6 MR. VO: That means I take from the file to the 7 table, I believe.
8 MR. ANG: Who selected them, you or Buck 9 Williams?
10 MR. VO: Buck Williams and his people they
.?
11 select 12 from 50 by random selection.
12 MR. ANG: You pulled out 50 and Buck Williams 13 picked 12 out of those?
14 MR. VO: Yes.
15 MR. ANG: Go,on.
16 MR. VO: And then we been investigate, you know, 17 I just go with them because I'm field engineer I know 18 where the location of the hanger and I'm go with them show 19 to them in case, you know, the QA surveillance they raise 20 up some problem, if I could prevail on the basic technical 21 to say, you know, that power plant is all right by to 22 improve, you know, by calculation or by something else, 1
A
r 15 20852.0 KSW 1 and I did not see anything all right.
MR. ROBINSON: You did not see anything wrong.
2 3 MR. VO: Whatever they meant. The termination 4 is right to me, is nothing wrong, and about two weeks 5 perform I think with them and they have taken note from 6 each hanger and then, you know, I'm asking Mr. Buck 7 Williams give me his notes, it is copy of, you know, the 8 efficiency, and then I go back in my office, I make --
9 create that form, and the speed letter, you know, report 10 to my supervisor and my' boss about the deficiency. :
11 MR. ANG: Before you get too far you say you 12 looked at the QA surveillance findings and --
13 MR. VO: No, I'm going with them.
14 MR. ANG: And as they find things you're 15 evaluating for technical significance?
16 MR. VO: Yes.
17 MR. ANG: And you found nothing wrong, or did 18 you find things wrong and you accepted them?
19 MR. VO: I agree with them whatever they found.
20 MR. ANG: Agree that they were wrong or --
21 MR. VO: They were wrong, sir.
22 MR. ANG: Okay. Please go on.
e lh
16 20852.0 KSW l MR. VO: And then I go back to my office and 2 create a form and the report to my boss and my direct 3 supervisor, Mr. Alec Fuller, is one of them.
4 MR. ANG: You reported all the surveillance 5 findings.
6 MR. VO: Yes, including my form 3 I create that 7 form and my note and QS surveillance note attached.
8 MR. ANG: Were any nonconformances generated 9 after that?
10 MR. VO: That's an office report to my "
11 supervisor and a OA different organization.
12' MR. ANG: Did QA generate any nonconformances as 13 a result of this.
14 MR. VO: Yes.
15 MR. ANG: You've got copies of those.
16 MR. VO: Yes.
17 MR. ANG: Did you write up any nonconformances?
18 MR. VO: No, sir, I'm a field engineer. I'm 19 technical support.
20 MR. ANG: You don't write up nonconformances.
21 MR. VO: I don't have a right to do that, sir.
22 MR. ANG: That's what you might have heard or t
, 16'
17 20852.0 KSW l thought, but normally everybody on site has to write 2 nonconformances if they see.
3 MR. VO: It is CP&L policy. I'm field engineer 4 I'm just technical support and if I find something wrong 5 in the field only one thing I have right to issue is speed 6 letter to my supervisor.
7 MR. ROBINSON: Did your supervisor tell you that 8 that's all you have?
9 MR. VO: Yes he asked me if you want to talk to (
10 NRC on site I got to let him know what subject. -
_.a 11 MR. ANG: He told you that?
12 MR. VO: Yes, I
i 13 MR. ROBINSON: How about if you want to talk to 14 CP&L CI group?
15 MR. VO: Yeah, I~do have right to talk to them.
16 MR. ROBINSON: You could talk to them without 17 necessarily talking to your supervisor.
18 MR. VO: Yes.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Maybe I'm jumping ahead a little 20 bit here, but I want to get to this use of this voided 21 purchase order number, okay?
22 MR. VO: Yes.
I7
18 20852.0 KSW l MR. ROBINSON: Why do -- do you know why this 2 number was used after it was voided?
3 MR. VO: I really don't, sir. It was back in 4 1980 I been, you know, doing, say, order, seismic material, 5 and refer to seismic specification was issued by Ebasco.
6 They have a seismic specification to refer to seismic 7 specification what type material, what property material 8 should be here for seismic and what should not be here.
9 I have been there a year and I know exactly, you know, 10 particular seismic when I issue the purchasing order by me -
_.a 11 and I specify, refer to seismic specification like a 12 stainless steel pipe and, you know, what is DM standard 13 requirement and what type 314 or 316 stainless steel pipe 14- and what documentation required for Q material, quality 15 material, and then I sign and then my supervisor approve, 16 then goes through a routine to the QA where they are up to 17 the high level management then go down to purchasing 18 department to order material.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Do you know why that purchase 20 order number was used on the documentations? Do you have 21 any reason to believe that it was intentionally used, 22 wrongfully?
18
19 20852.0-KSW 1 MR. VO: I told you at that time I don' t know.
2 Unless, you know, after.
3 MR. ROBINSON: Do you know now?
4 MR. VO: Yeah, I know now because after that me 5 and the QS surveillance, Mr. Vincent, he asked me how to I said 6 find out the documentation of the PO number 21022.
7 by a procedure when any Q material allow to release for 8 construction should be in QA vault and we go into QA vault 9 together to search where the documentation of that PO 10 number.
11 We have been about half a day to search and we couldn't, 12 you know, see any documentation in the QA vault. Then 13 Mr. Vincent asked me how about next step where we're going.
14 I'said best way we go to purchasing department. And we 15 went together to the purchasing department and I have 16 because I have, you know, due to in the plant I have so 17 many friends and at that time Mr. Robert Babb, we ask him, 18 you know, I introduce to Mr. Vincent and I ask him why we 19 come here for and we asking about a PO 21022, and Mr. Babb 20 look on his document about, you know, control record, he 21 say to us, that Po 21022 and 21021 are void.
22 MR. ROBINSON: Do you know when they were voided.
Idl
__ _ . .1
20 20852.0 KSW l MR. VO: They void a long time. That's been I
2 about 1980.
3 MR. ROBINSON: I mean, when you went to the 4 purchasing department.
4 5 MR. VO: Yes.
6 MR. ROBINSON: And they told you then that that 7 PO was voided.
8 MR. VO: Yes.
9 MR. ROBINSON: How long ago.from then had it 10 been voided? Do you have any idea? "
11 MR. VO: No, they just said void. They meant 12 the termination. They never have order material reflect 13 to the PO number. Say on their record void meaning they 14 don't have any record at all.
15 MR. ANG: What was PO 21022 for?
16 MR. VO: That's some kind of material like --
17 MR.,ANG: Baseboards, sheet metal?
18 -MR. VO: Yes.
19 MR. ANG: Was it Ebasco ordered --
.20 MR. VO: No. l 21 MR.- ANG: CP&L?
l 22 MR. VO: Yes.
}OI 1
21 20852.0 KSW l MR. ANG: Just plain 836?
2 MR. VO: Yes, 836.
3 MR. ROBINSON: Do you know if PO 21022 was 4 replaced by another PO?
5 MR. VO: No, sir, I don't know about that.
6 MR. ROBINSON: You don't know?
7 MR. VO: No, sir.
8 MR. ROBINSON: Why do you think -- who was using 9 this PO number after it was voided? Improperly?
10 MR. VO: The reason -- I'm piping engineer; I'm a -
11 not hanger. When I start with CP&L, I deal with piping 12 and I transfer to the hanger department in April 1982 and 13 that type material had been issued back in 1980, you know, 14 and I don't know who, you know, what kind formation and 15 what type of documentation allow to hanger. department 16 issue, you know, steel plate to the field for hanger 17 construction reflected that PO number. I do not know, 18 know about that source.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Why do you think -- I'm asking 20 for your opinion -- why do you think that purchase order 21 was number was used after it was voided?
22 MR. VO: Miscoordination between the CP&L
22 20852.0- ,
KSW I i
i department, like, you know, in my experience the CP&L is 2 not very -- have a good coordination. Right now 3 mechanical department, they never have real good E
4 coordination with electric or purchasing or they are
, 5 really separate together and that's one reason they lack, t
6 you know, coordination or communication.
7 When the people issue the PO they talked, that PO 8 material outside. If they did, you know, check back with 9 purchasing and they should not issue that material to tut J
10 field, that's why I'm taught.
- i 11 MR. ROBINSON: Do I understand you to say that purchasing would have told the field that -- that when 1
12 13 they first issued that PO they would have told the field 14 that that was the PO to' order the material on and then 15 purchasing cancelled that PO and didn' t tell the field and 16 the field just kept using that PO?
17 MR. VO: Yes.
18 MR. ROBINSON: Do you have any indication ---
I 19 know what I mean, indication?
1
- 20 MR. VO: Yes.
21 MR. ROBINSON: Do you have any' indication that 22 anyone from CP&L intentionally put that PO number on i
1 l
l 1
1 23 20852.0 KSW l documents after it was voided trying for any reason, 2 trying to order different grade steel under that PO number 3 or to destroy the traceability of the material, do you 4 have any indication of that, or was it a mistake?
5 MR. VO: No, because after, you know, refer to 6 my report to Mr. Alec Fuller and he been, you know, messed 7 on me because I reflect to that and about my report in the ,
8 morning and afternoon he called me back in his office, he 9 say, something lied, I don't know, he's so mad, you don't 10 know how to do the job. He's an employee down to the 11 warehouse and he found that PO documentation was existing 12 in the warehouse. ,
13 MR. ROBINSONS That's what he told you.
14 MR. VO: Yes.
15 MR. ANG: Did he show it to you?
16 MR. VO: No , sir.
17 MR. ANG: Did you ever see it.
18 MR. VO: No, sir. And I have my feedback, I say 19 to Mr. Alec Fuller, I say, sir, if you say so. I don't know how to feed back to you, and the best way, you know,
~
20 21 wait until the official efficiency report from the QA 22 surveillance.
i
)
l 23 ;
24 20852.0 KSW l MR. ROBINSON: Do you think that there is any as a 2 inferior grade steel in that plant now as a result, 3 result of this mix-up or the use of this purchase order 4 number?
5 MR. VO: Yes, yes, and besides that, you know, 6 so many steel, you know, being upgrade and accepted 7 without-documentation.
8 MR. ROBINSON: Upgraded and substituted without 9 documentation?
10 MR. VO Yes. "
MR. ROBINSON: And I mean specifically 11 12 pertaining to that PO number?
13 MR. VO: No, beside that PO.
14 MR. ROBINSON: In addition to that PO number?
15 MR. .ANG: How was the DDR finally resolved?
16 MR. VO: Yes, DDR 1775, 1795, and NRC 255.
> 18 MR. VO: Yes, and DDR 1776 and DDR 1784 right i
19 here refer to that DDR, the PO number.
20 MR. ROBINSON: So'can you say that on any --
21 were there specific hangers transferred in these DDRs?
22 MR. ANG: Yes?
}.k ,
1
25 20852.0 KSW 1 MR. VO: Yes.
2 MR. ROBINSON: Can you say that any of those 3 specific hangers had inferior grade steel?
4 MR. VO: Yes. That's the copy of the hanger for 5 component coolant system.
6 MR. ANG: These are not completed DDRs. The 1
7 disposition and ruling are not here yet.
J 8 MR. VO: No, at that time, Mr. Buck Williams 9 just gave me that copy.
10 MR. ANG: You don't have completed copies.
11 MR. VO : No, sir.
12 MR. GUILD: Can we ask -- as we go through this 13 there are some things that are helpful to us to understand 14 more fully what the resolution of these issues are, if you i
15 identify these, the completed DDRs, that show the recent 16 resolution, we'd ask you to make a copy available to us so 1
17 we'll have the answer to that question as well.
18 MR. ROBINSON: Well, I don' t know whether we can 19 make that promise. We'll, you know, during the course of
.20 the investigation, we'll certainly attempt to resolve any 21 questions of any incompleted DDRs, but unless I see a need 22 in the investigation to submit evidence that I've obtained d
26 20852.0 KSW l in my investigation outside, I probably won't do that.
2 MR. GUILD: We'd ask you to do it, and my 3 concern is this --
4 MR. ANG: We might not even make copies of them 5 if we go over and look at the copies of the DDRs and we 6 have no real need for getting copies of them --
MR. GUILD: Let me put it this way. I think 7
8 Mr. Van Vo is committed to cooperating with the NRC Staf f trying to investigate these concerns. I've expressed to 9
10 you, Larry, the fact that I've had difficulty with the- :
11 Region 2 staff and being responsive to concerns expressed 12 by individuals. And frankly --
13 MR. ANG: In what manner?
14 MR. GUILD: Being responsive to investigative 15 concerns.
16 MR. ROBINSON: Let's not get into a contest 17 about responsiveness right now.
18 MR. GUILD: Let me just state my position about 19 this particular point. Mr. Van Vo is concerned about the 20 safety of the plant. He's concerned.that the NRC takes 21 the information that he provides to them and that you do a 22 responsible job with it.
N
i 27 20852.0 KSW MR. ANG: I -- we certainly intend to.
1 i
MR. GUILD: But in the same fashion, he raises a 2
3 concern to CP&L and gets no response or feedback to his 4 concern. He and I both are interested in seeing that the 1
5 Region 2 staff, OI, do a responsible job in investigating 6 his concerns, and here's a first point where he has part of a document, it's a basis in part for his concern. A 7
8 logical investigative step is to look at the rest of the 9 document. You may be satisfied by looking at the rest of 10 the document. -
_a 11 MR. ANG: May or may not be.
12 MR. GUILD: It seems to me a fair and reasonable 4 13 request for Mr. Van Vo and me as his lawyer to make sure 14 that you share the results of your investigation in that 15 regard.
16 MR. ANG: We definitely intend to tell 17 Mr. Van Vo what our findings are. That's a matter of 18 public record.
19 MR. GUILD: What I'm asking is a very clear and l
I 20 specific request. It's simply a matter of making a Xerox 21 copy of a document that you ultimately are going to look 22 at so we'll have the same evidence that you have to draw a f
28 20852.0 i KSW 1 conclusion from. You may look at that DDR resolution and i i
2 say there's no problem, and w- may look at it and say, 3 well, there are all these unanswered questions. The way 4 of being responsible it seems to me, and putting our cards 5 on the table, which is.what you're expecting us to do, the l
6 way of being sort of evenhanded is for you to do the same 7 thing and on a simple matter like that say, we'll show you a
8 the results of our investigation. Here's the DDR and show I
9 us what they have done.
i 10 It seems to me to be onesided about this to simply say, "
1
~
11 Mr. Van Vo, we're interested in looking at your concerns.
i 12 Tell us everything you know so we can investigate it, but i 13 we make no commitment to share the fruits of our I
14 investigation. Seems unfair.
- 15 MR. ROBINSONs,-How many investigative agencies 16 do you know that make that commitment?
17 MR. GUILD: That's neither here nor there. The 18 fact of the matter is --
' 19 MR. ROBINSON: It's not neither here nor there.
i 20 How many investigative agencies do you know that normally 21 respond to people that come to them with allegations or i
4 22 concerns by during the course of the investigation
' )
29 20852.0
- KSW 1 providing copies of any evidence that they obtain prior to 2 completion of the investigation?
3 MR. GUILD: I think a responsible agency should 4 do that.
5 MR. ROBINSON: You're certainly entitled to your 6 opinion.
7 MR. GUILD: It seems to me to make the burden 8 solely on Mr. Van Vo to present evidence which the NRC I
9- staff can do with what it will and not feel a commitment i
10 to be responsible to him and say, here's what we've done. "
11 We've honored our commitments.
Let me state this as clearly as I can. As I have said, 12 13 Mr. Van Vo, frankly, is skeptical about CP&L's resolution 14 of his concerns. He gave them an opportunity to deal *with these issues when he worked for them. They didn't. He 15 16 doesn't have any particular confidence in the NRC staff to 17 look at his concerns. I've encouraged him to bring them 18 to you.
19
~
MR. ROBINSON: Do you have any confidence in the
.20. NRC staff to look into your concerns, Mr. Vo?
21 MR. VO: To answer you, no, sir. To be honest 22 with you, I say no. The reason I have been, look the l$
30 20852.0 KSW l history of Zimmer, Wolfe, and particular agent 3 and 4, I ,
1 2 do say they do a very good job and -- the reason Zimmer, l 3 like when they suspend are raised up about nonconforming.
4 The approximately I think 4200 deficiencies, you know, 5 being identified by Zimmer, and that the reason, you know, 6 the utility deal back and forth, same mistake and it is 7 Zimmer suspending their license back in 1982 by NRC Region 8 3.
i 9 MR. ANG: Why do you not have confidence in 10 Region 27 **
11 MR. VO: I read the article from Mr. -- I think, 12 you know, I got it around somewhere. Give me a second.
13 MR. ANG: To be frank with you, I'm very proud 14 of Region 2 15 MR. GUILD: This would be an interesting 16 discussion to have on an extended basis, but let me be 17' clear on my points,'and I am sure he can show you what he 18 has.
19 MR. VO: I remember, you know, in one article I 20 said the problem now by Mr. Stello, James O'Reilly, the 21 problems in construction are real. I exciting for the 22 article because my performance, you know, particularly the
31 20852.0 KSW 1 high technology nuclear power plant we play with, you know, 2 uranium 235, we prevent some radiation, and how to, you 3 know, to use the proper material to make sure adequate,-
4 you know, installation, and refer to TMI, two accidents 5 back in 1979, and I do concern that, and then I read the 6 article from Mr. Jim O'Reilly.
' 7 Now I can tell why I do not care on Region 2. Like now, 8 see, like CP&L, when it is beginning until now from the 9 beginning, they build the plant until June 1983, about 10 1400 or 1500 DDR being identified, and besides DDR, we can "
11 say that's nonconformance, and how many NRC steel 4
12 nonconformance and how Jnany DDR, and still nonconforming 13 and are being, you know, identified from beginning to that 14 time.
15 And from June, 1983, the DDR number jump up to 2400.
16 Only six months to December 1983, only six months, a 17 t.housand DDRs being reading on the nuclear power plant, 18 and Mr. Vincent, when he issues these DDR, and one month 19 later. Right now, I don't know where Mr. Vincent, I don't 20 know what kind of pressure was put on him. I don't know 21 where he was, and I know one person, you know, in last 22 January, about January or February of 1984, a security i 3\
32 20852.0 KSW l inspector, is nickname " Tank" and his last name is Tink, 2 they call it his nickname --
3 MR. ANG: Tank, big guy probably.
4 MR. VO: That's why I say, I really don't know, 5 and his last name is Ward, W-a-r-d. If you don't follow 6 my pronounciation, I'm sorry, because I'm really sorry 7 about that.
8 And one month, he been issue about a thousand NCR, only 9 one month, and then they try to get him out of, you know, 10 inspection. You can check on that, and you can take away 11 Mr. Vincent now and only six months from the 1500 number 12 jumped to 2400 number, and I don't know how many of them 13 are dispositions.
14 MR. ROBINSON: And this is the reason you don't 15 have confidence in NRC, or this the reason you don't have 16 confidence in CP&L?
17 MR. VO: The NRC should be, you know, tolerant 18 to NRC -- to CP&L due to the building of the nuclear power 19 plant. I guarantee with you if right now you can because 20 of very glowing information, you know, about last week, 21 right now 50 percent documentation, 50 percent component 22 and equipment, you know, on the RST program transferred
33 20852.0 KSW l from construction to start up. It's without QA 2 documentation: That's information given to me due to the conversation with my friend. He was a nuclear engineer 3
4 and right now he is still a CP&L employee.
5 MR. ANG: How many plants have you worked at, 6 Mr. Vo?
7 MR. VO: Only one plant, sir.
8 MR. ANG: Many of the things you're talking 9 about different people treat different ways, and many 10 people don't call everything NCRs. Some systems call them 11 DDR, RVN, all kinds of different names. Still winds up as 12 a report of nonconforming or discrepancy. .
13 MR. VO: Maybe I'm wrong --
14 MR. ROBINSON: I think I'm going to have to cut 15 it short right now. I. understand that you have a lack of 16 confidence that NRC will in good faith investigate your 17- allegations. I'm going to say that the NRC-OI will not 18 routinely supply copies of evidence and documentation that 19 they obtain in their investigation during the course of 20 the investigation to Mr. Vo and you, Mr. Guild.
21 Now, we can we came here to listen to Mr. Vo's concerns.
22 If Mr. Vo has a problem with relating these concerns now Tk
34 l 20852.0 KSW ,
1 because he doesn't trust us, then I guess we're at an 2 impasse. I hope that we can resolve that impasse.
MR. VO: Excuse me a second, sir. I not trust --
- 3 4 I couldn't make that determination. I say -- you know, I
^
5 couldn't count, you know, on the Region 2 performance, you Doesn't mean trust. You are investigator. You 6 know.
7 know, you have a right to do whatever, you know --
8 MR. ROBINSON: I'm not saying we certainly don't f
9 have a right to do whatever we want to do. We will. All 10 we can say to you, sir, is that -- and you too, Mr. Guild, _a i 11 is, we'll conduct a thorough investigation of the 12 allegations and complaints brought forth here.
13 MR. VO: I would like to point out one thing, You see, I have a problem, you see why, is something d
- 14 sir.
15 particularly my personal. When I left my_ country in 1975, 4
16 sir, I left behind two kids, sir, okay. I come here. I 17 do labor work. I do anything. I, you know, I cannot 18 conversation with your people. I being try to perform ,
19 back, you know, to support my children or to, you know, 20 that's why I try to perform a good man to be, turn to be 21 American citizenship by naturalization, and the reason I 22 turn my name because I -- no one can help me, only myself.
1
\
! 3E'
l 35 20852.0 KSW i
1 I want to go back over there to rescue my kids, and my l 2 daughter, she got to escape back in 1981 by herself, 17 3 years old.
4 The reason I went down to Mr. McDuffy, senior 5 construction vice-president, I show what happened. I cry 6 with him. I say, I have been so much, you know, so much 7 misery borne in my life. I don't want no more. I came ,
8 here to find freedom, to find the VC don' t put me in, you 9 know, reeducation camp or to kill me in some way because 10 I'm in South Vietnam Army, and I cry with him. I say, sir,
.?
11 if you think the CP&L don' t need me no more, please lay me 12 off. I said it that way. Because I need the money. I 13 can join unemployment to serving another employer or, you 14 know, I show to him what happened, you know, to me.
15 He say, you good man. Go back to work. I cry with him.
16 I say, that's my personal, but when I come back to work 17 and find out, Mr. Chan you do wrong, the wrong movement, I 18 say, why, he's a very good man. He say, you wait and see.
19 And when I come back, you know, the pressure increase.
20 You know, two years I kill myself, and when I do a job 21 my personal item is, I try the part I have. I explained 22 to Mr. McDuf fy I have two objectives. The first objective, 1
1 i
l 1
I 1
i l
36 20852.0 KSW you know, I feel any employee under CP&L, same house. We 1
2 had to protect, you know, our name and we have whatever the CP&L, you know, reflected concern. We have to try to 3
4 deal in cost effective manner, and I do that, and Mr.
5 McDuffy, he told me, Chan, do you know, I build, you know, the Robinson plant only four years. I said, that's very 6
7 good, sir, but I know it's a very -- something is wrong in 8 here. That's why he told me, and I trust him. I trust 9 him.
10 I come back to work and the result, and now, ,you know, 11 he's a big man, and, you know, anything -- I come first, 12 you know, to anyone is . Charles because without Charles we 13 can't do nothing, sir.
14 MR. ROBINSON: I ur.derstand your situation,.Chan.
15 I understand that. -
16 MR. VOt Now finally, like Mr. Guild see the 17 document, about three months ago the immigration office, I 18 have one son left. He's 16 years old, one more year they 19 will drop him. I met request from -- I wrote the letter
.20 to request Mr. Jesse Helms' son to interfere with the Viet 21 Cong let reunite family. The document had already been 22 performed, and I have documentation from the U.S. Embassy 3b;
37 20852.0 KSW 1 l
1 in Thailand. They asked me to re-sign the affidavit to l J
2 support my child.
3 I'm without job. I still hold document on my hand say, 1
4 if you don't do that we drop the case, and now ng son one 1 5 more year, you know, he'll be here, and to be honest with 6 you, only one thing I chose this case, and if finally 7 nothing else, I'm going. I have been served my life. I'm 45 years old. That's enough. I couldn't make myself 8
9 serve the way like I should be, and best way I know. I 10 don't know what I'm doing. I might be able to go l
11 somewhere. I can't go back home or somewhere because I
- 12 can't, you know, over here just the power -- CP&L very 13 powerful. They have a PAC organization. They have any 14 kind organization. I just one person.
15 MR. ROBINSON: I hope that you don't perceive 16 your existence here as hopeless, Mr. Vo. I would like to 17 think that this country would give you the same 18 opportunity as any other citizen to excel and exceed. I 19 can only speak for myself and regarding my conduct of this 20 investigation, that you can trust me as --
21 MR. VO: Yes. Thank you very much, sir.
22 MR. ROBINSON: As another man to --
1
38 20852.0 KSW MR. VO: With both of you I'm trust. When I'm 1
trust I'm talking. Before I say my feeling. Due to many 2
3 articles, you know, I have been, you know, reading, and I 4 to be honest with you I do not care about Region 2.
I 5 MR. GUILD: I want to say I think it's important 6 that Mr. Van Vo express what he has to you because I think 7 you ought to understand where he's coming from. My only 8 point in raising this issue is it's such a simple matter.
9 If you want to restore some small measure of confidence in 10 me and in Mr. Van Vo, it's a simple matter of saying we'll "
11 do something unusual in this case. Maybe it's not normal l
12 policy. We'll make a Xerox copy of a document to show you 13 what it is we look at. End of discussion. If you don't 14 want to, fine. It seems to me it's just such a simple l
15 matter that would allow someone like us to be able to look 16 at what you do and say, gee, those guys did a 17 straightforward and honest job. That's all we're asking.
18 But I think you know --
i 19 MR. VO: I'm sorry to interrupt you.
20 MR. ROBINSON: There's no need to apologize.
21 You did not interrupt at all. Where were we? ,
22 MR. ANG: PO 21022.
l
- I 3
39 20852.0 KSW l MR. VO: I have about 20 speed letters.
2 MR. ROBINSON: One question about the materials that were supposedly received on PO 21022. Did you or 3
~
4 anyone ever find what PO those materials were received on?
5 MR. VO: You see, after, you know, that is a 6 special assignment. After my report, I don't have right
- 7 to go back to do this job.
8 MR. ROBINSON: So you don't know?
i 9 MR. VO: I don't know, but I do have a document.
10 The document CP&L refer to that speed letter issued to the "
11 field back in 1980. And I have about 25 more same speed 12 letters, all the same PO number for different hangers.
13 MR. GUILD: Later, if you could, identify that 14 so we can keep track of what we got. This one refers'to 15 PO 21022, appears to be July 3, 1983, speed letter.
16 MR. ROBINSON: Who's it to.
17 MR. VO: Mr. Wayne Harris. From Wayne Harris to 18 Gerald Corley.
19 MR. ANG: Appears to be a material requisition
- 20. from construction to purchasing to supply some plates for 21 use as pipe support material.
1 22 MR. VO: Yes. Mr. Wayne Harris, he's a
)
\
40 20852.9
- KSW 1 mechanical senior engineer, CPEL field engineer. And Mr.
2 Corley, he's Daniel's superintendent for hanger 3 construction. That's anything, you know, refer to Mr.
4 Wayne Harris issued to Mr. Corley to be performed.
5 MR. ROBINSON: Do you think that Mr. Harris knew 6 that PO 21022 was void at that time?
MR. VO: I don't know, sir. If he know, he 7
8 couldn't issue that. I don't think he know because he 9 issued not only one, but I say about 25 more.
10 MR. GUILD: I should point out that DDR 1775 l
11 indicates that that same purchase order number was listed 12 as a source of material for components on a number of 13 hangers and lists by way of axemple several but appears on 14 its face to indicate there were a number of other hangers 15 that referenced the same PO number.
16 MR. ANG: What is the significance of the wrong 17 PO number being used or ordered to you, Mr. Vo? You can't 18 trace the material to the purchase order, do you think 19 that wrong material could havo been used?
20 MR. VO: The reason the CP&L organizatioa in the 21 beginning, you see any material shipped on site even some, 22 you know, they have a QA/QC procedure, particularly Q I
40
41 20852.0 KSW 1 material before release to for construction they had to be 2 reinspected and documented, and somehow, you see, all 3 material, some do, some don't, and still when they got to 4 the field still really old material to the field and store 5 in there, store reefer to turbine or auxiliary building or 6 waste processing building or fuel handling building.
7 And then, you see, I was in craft. I'm a pipefitter, a 8 plumber, and I go to them to help and to learn together to 9 perform the job. Particularly the craft Daniel employee 10 on the site, they are very clear if you do some mistake, '
11 get a lunch box and go with me out to the gate.
12 MR. ANG: I hope you bear with me. I'm 13 repeating what you say for her benefit, not for you.
14 MR. VO: Yes. And I kusw, I assume I'm 15 pipefitter. When you see a hanger like a component 16 coolant support system, I have a package, the hanger 17 sketch show that they have steel 2 feet 6 inch long due to 18 the surface of the concrete is not really good. They have 19 some waving, and they try to trim of f the tube steel to 20 fit.
21 MR. ANG: They don't normally attach tubq steel 22 to the concrete?
l NI
42 20852.0 KSW l MR. VO: Fit it to the base plate or fit it to 2 whatever. Sometimes imbed not really square, and when
/
3 they trim off, by lack of performance, they put in the 4 short. They do not inform to the foreman and then they go 5 around, you know, they find out where they can find 6 another piece of tube steel, same, you know, same dimension. They don't know what type. They don't care 7
8 the property material should be right to the same or not.
9 Only they care is to the right dimension.
10 MR. ANG: My question on that would be on the '
11 purchase order regarding base plates, and maybe even with 12 tube steel, is there any other type material on site?
13 MR. VO Yes, they have so many materials.
14 MR. ANG: For example, what other kind of plates 15 would they have? I think 836 would be the lowest grade 16 that they have.
17 MR. VO: Material traceability NCR.
MR. ROBINSON: I believe Bill's question was, is J 18 19 there any lower grade steel base plates than 836 steel.
20 MR. VO: Yes, they have so many shift from 21 different like force of power plant.
22 MR. ANG: They use 836 there too? I don't know I
l i
43 20852.0 KSW 1 that you can get anything much worse, at lease not at 2 Shearon Harris, than 836.
I don't know about that. I say Deside 3 MR. VO 4 base plate they have some tube steel like without certification and test and heat number. That's what I 5
6 have been using.
7 MR. ANG: But again, let me understand. Is 8 there any material on site that.is less than 836 or does 9 not have all this documentation on it that --
MR. VO: I don't know, sir. They have so many 10 11 different sources materials.
12 MR. ANG: If they did make a mistake or even if they use something other than PO 21022, they may still l
13 14 have used the right material, you know, the number, the purchase order number might be wrong. That's something we 15 ,
16 need to look at, but you have to recognize, though, that a 17 case of structural steel 836 normally is very common.
18 MR. VO: Very common.
19 MR. ANG: I don't think there's anything much 20 less than that.
21 MR. VO: I agree with you, sir.
22 MR. ROBINSON: To kind of repeat what I asked
I 44 l 20852.0 KSW \
l bofore, do you have any indication that anyone 2 intentionally wrongfully used that PO number, or do you --
3 does it just appear to be carelessness or a mis'take or no 4 communication?
5 MR. VO: I think that's a careless mistake, no 6 communication.
7 MR. ROBINSON: Okay. Could we take a break for 8 just a minute?
9 (Recess.)
i 10 MR. ROBINSON: Let's go back on the record. Let -
.a 11 the record reflect that we're back on the record referring 12 to the use of purchase order 21022 for obtaining materials 13 after that purchase order was voided.
14 MR. VO That is the copy of the package for the hanger CC-H-105.
1 15 16 MR. VO: That refers to the work procedure 110, 17 revision 8.
18 MR. GUILD: Explain where that hanger package 19 came from.
20 MR. VO: That hanger package and the CMR, 21 construction material requisition, I'm go back a little 22 bit because after investigation and DDR 1775 issued, NRC ud
20852.0 45 KSW l issued the stop work order from the hanger.
l 2 MR. ANG: NRC7 MR. VO Yes. That is, Mr. Foscolo issued the 4 memorandum.
5 MR. ANG: That wasn't an NRC stop work order 6 though, was it?
7 MR. VO: Yes.
8 MR. ANG: It was?
9 MR. GUILD: Okay, here we go. This is an !
10 excerpt from an inspection report and appears to be the f
11 cover letter of December 1, 1983. f 12 MR. VO: Right here, sir.
13 MR. ANG: Saying the licensee issued a stop work 14 order. CP&L issued a stop work order, not the NRC. It's 15 just the licensee issued the stop work order regarding 16 pipe support and installation inspection.
17 MR. ROBINSON: That's the impression I got from --
18 MR. VO: Mr. Foscolo issued that letter, that 19 memorandum, and the probationer status was issued on my 20 performance in August. And right here --
21 MR. GUILD: Chan, you were going to explain 22 where the hanger package documents came from.
20852.0 46 KSW The CPEL organization for your l 1 MR. VO:
2 information will show all right here, will show the 3 situation after the stop work order. CP&L started to re --
4 MR. ANG: Before you get too far, Mr. Guild 5 tried several timest what's the significance of this 6 package?
7 MR. VO: I'm going there now, sir. That will go 8 with this one. The CP&L, the seismic hanger no more 9 performance in the field.
10 MR. ANG: I beg your pardon? ,
, 11 MR. VO: The seismic hanger is no more stop
}
12 performance. .
13 MR. ANG: Don't install, don't inspect any more 14 pipe supports for now? That's what the stop work order 15 was? -
16 MR. VO: They will revise the procedure, what 17 procedure, work procedure 110, rev 8, including 18 nonconformance procedure. DDR shall be superceded. In 19 Alec Fuller's department, they tried to create the new 20 package of harger reflect to work procedure 110, revision 21 8, and they started to destroy all the inadequate CMR and 22 particularly some hanger package because the new package Qb
I i
i 47 20852.0 l KSW
- \
1 of hangers is completely different with existing package.
. 2 MR. ROBINSON: Who destroyed all the previous 3 CMRs?
4 MR. VO: The reason I found the problem due to 5 my performance, the field engineer, at that time, Mr. Alec 6 Fuller say, from now on, you no more in your office. You 7 a field engineer. When you come up to office, go out to 8 the field, and you have right come back at lunchtime. And 9 after lunch, go back to the field until the second whistle, 10 and I out of due to technical support for the field for '
.i 11 nonseismic hanger, nonseismic hanger, and we need some 1
12 material, you know, nonseismic material, and I went to the 13 warehouse.
- 14 When I went to the warehouse to search some tube steel 15 or some other kind of steel and some angle iron, I saw, 16 you know, three people very close to -- engineers very 17 close to Alec Fuller -- walk together in the warehouse, 18 and I found that -- these papers in the trash can. And I 19 take -- this is wintertime, cold, and I took, put my 20 jacket. I just keep for my documentation.
l 21 MR. GUILD: How many hanger packages were in the 22 trash?
48 20852.0 KSW l MR. VO I really don't know, but I have so many, 2 only one right here, and I have so many material 3 requisition.
MR. GUILD: Was it a little can, big can?
4 5 MR. VO: They have a 200, you know, container 6 like a, you know, oil container.
7 MR. GUILD: 200-gallon container?
8 MR. ANG: I recognize they put a stop work order I recognize that. Because of that, they are 9 out.
10 reperforming all kinds of inspections. And the numbers "
that you're talking about, I recognize those numbers. You 11 12 don't have to tell me how many.
l 13 MR. GUILD: How many what? The question is, how many destroyed documents did he see. Is there one piece 14 15 of paper he found in the trash can, or was it a whole 16 trash can full, and I think Mr. Van Vo's observation was 17 that he happened to get some samples out of a largo 18 container.
MR. VO: I don't know how many. That's why I 19 just one time I picked up one time. That's all, because 20 when I went to the warehouse I had to have a pass. I 21 4
22 don't have right to go to warehouse without pass.
49 20852.0 KSW l MR. ROBINSON: This was Mr. Fuller and three of l i
2 his friends or --
MR. VO: Three of his employees. I don't know 3
4 who order that.
5 MR. GUILD: Fuller wasn't there?
6 MR. VO: Fuller wasn't there.
7 MR. GUILD: W'o h were the three people?
8 MR. VO: Mr. Paul Moward, and -- excuse me, I go 9 back to organization because very hard for me to remember 10 the name.
11 MR. ROBINSON: Okay.
12 MR. VO: I think Mr. Fulcher.
13 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, anybody else?
The third guy like a warehouse guy. I 14 MR. VO 15 couldn't remember the name, sir.
16 MR. ROBINSON: And they -- you did you see them 17 throw documents in the trash can?
18 MR. VO No , sir. I didn't say so.
19 MR. ROBINSON: But soon after you saw them 20 walking by the trash can --
21 MR. VO: They were in there. They were inside 22 the warehouse. The trash can was near the surplus
50 20852.0 KSW l material.
2 MR. ROBINSON: Is there any reason that these 3 CMRs should be destroyed?
4 MR. VO: I don't know, sir.
5 MR. ANG: These are pipe support inspection.
6 MR. ROBINSON: Did you pull these out of the 7 trash can too?
8 MR. VO: Yes.
9 MR. ROBINSON: And this was because they were l
10 now going into work procedure revision 9 and starting a ~
f 11 new inspection procedure or --
12 MR. VO: Yes. The work procedure 110, revision 13 1, revision 0, to revision 8. Still revision, revision 8, 14 still change a little bit due to process. Still give 15 three phase for inspection. And the work procedure 110,-
16 revision 9, is a 100 percent completely changed. It's no 17 more phase 1, phase 2 or phase 3. The field engineer 18 turned to me the initial inspection. If you look reveal 19 on day work procedure, you will see it.
20 MR. ANG: That's not exactly what the --
21 MR. ROBINSON: And they. were discarding hanger i 22 packages that were inspected under 0 through 8 or --
1 51 20852.0 KSW l MR. VO: Zero through 8 is no more, you know, in 2 compared with the revision 8. The package, you see, that 3 package, anyone can mark in there in the back and a new 4 package, the blue like paper cover with a hard bar and the 5 green card with the hard, not that soft.
6 MR. ROBINSON: Thicker?
7 MR. VO: Thicker, and with the new documentation 8 not, you know, some, they still use it, you know, the 9 existing documentation, to transfer to the new package, 10 and some don't. t 11 MR. ANG: So they voided all previous 12 inspections? .
13 MR. VO: Yes.
14 MR. ANG: They performed some required new 15 inspections? Some of the documentation was obtained from 16 previous documentation?
17 MR. VO: Yes. I don't know they perform it or 18 not, you know.
19 MR. ANG: You feel this record should have been 20 kept?
21 MR. VO: I think that's to me very inadequato, 22 you know, the pipe performance because refer to revision o
$\
52 20852.0 KSW 1 to revision 8, 80 percent of the hangers being built into 2 the plant, and due to that kind of completion, they have 3 some deficiencies. If you have a chance go back, look, 4 containment spray on the containment building, you will 5 see what pipe support for that system and how deficiency 6 they are.
7 MR. ANG: The question I have, though, is they 8 are reperforming inspections?
9 MR. VO I don't know, sir, I never seen them.
10 I just do the paperwork in the office.
.~'
11 MR. ANG: You don't know whether they are 12 reperforming inspections or not?
13 MR. VO: No, sir.
14 MR. ANG: Is that your question?
15 MR. VO: At that time I didn't see the 16 reinspections.
17 MR. ANG: What I'm getting at is, what is your 18 concern in regard to disposing of the records? You're not 19 sure they are. not going to be inspected or you'ge 'not sure
- 20. the proper records are there, or what is your concern? l 21 MR. VO: My concern about, you see, they are 22 like the new procedure. They say that time the people go l
l l
l S
53 20852.0 KSW ,
J 1 into the warehouse like tube steel, I-beam, base plate, i
2 telescope, rigid telescope, and I-beam, refer to new 3 procedure allow if something no heat number, stamped on 4 the stamp on the material. Put the Delta 36, that should 5 be the proper material, and that, you know, that NCR shows
! 6 what the performance, even they put the Delta 36 on the 7 material.
8 MR. ANG: What is your main concern about those 9 records in the trash can?
~
10 MR. VO I don't know. I know that's improper 11 when you destroy, you know, something. The paper need to 12 be stay even you have a new procedure, they should be stay 13 in the package. Why, you know, I don't know, maybe they 14 have a different organization, you know, different 15 planning, I don't know.,
16 MR. ROBINSON: After these were destroyed there 17 was no way to reconstruct these, no copies of any of these?
18 MR. VO: That's original they destroyed. That 19 means they don't have documentation.
20 MR. ANG: The real proof is the pipe support i
- 21 gets installed. When you look at-that, there's no way 22 it's going to be changed, and you inspect that pipe i
54 20852.0 KSW 1 support.
2 MR. GUILD: 10 CFR part 50, appendix B, requires 3 that the licensee commit to maintaining documentary 4 evidence of the quality of safety of the work in the plant, 5 and it seems to me fuitdamental that if you destroy that 6 documentation, you're violating 10 CFR part 50 unless you 7 do so in a controlled fashion. I don't think either Mr.
8 Van.Vo or I are in a position to know what the 9 significance is as a conclusive matter of finding safety 10 related matter in the trash can, but I don' t think you .
11 should presume to the contrary.
12 MR. ANG: I'm trying to find out --
2 13 MR. GUILD: Just because the hanger remains 14 there that doesn' t mean there's not a regulatory violation 15 reflected in that, and I think you ought to look at the 16 appendix B requirement to maintain those quality records 1
17 as certainly an issue that should be investigated in 18 connection with this ,
i 19 MR. ANG: No question about that. I'm just
.20 trying to find out what the concern is, and I presume from 21 your words that the concern :.s there's a concern regarding 22 the control of the quality records.
i.
55 20852.0 KSW l MR. GUILD: Sure.
2 MR. ANG: You don't know that there has been a 3 falsification of records or that records that were 4 required have not been kept, it's just that the concern 5 over the control is there because of this.
6 MR. GUILD: We see evidence that quality 7 documents have been destroyed. Maybe they put them on 8 microfilm. Maybe there are Xerox copies. Maybe there's a 9 controlled way of destroying these. We don't know.
10 MR. ROBINSON: When did you find these? '
11 MR. VO: November of 1983, sir.
12 MR. ROBINSON: Where?
13 MR. VO: Surplus warehouse, surplus material 14 warehouse, warehouse 6. That means 123456.
15 MR. ROBINSON: Warehouse 6 trash can. Okay.
16 MR. GUILD: Again, these were -- was a 17 200-gallon container.
18 MR. VO: Yeah.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Full of this same type of stuff?
20 MR. VO: They have so many things in there, not l
\
21 particularly one stuff. They have so different. l l
22 MR. ROBINSON: Did you just kind of walk by and l
1 l
S$l t -
e-r e -
www -
56 20852.0 KSW l take stuff off the top or --
I'm a CP&L employee. If I do that, I 2 MR. VO:
3 stand to watch very carefully, I might get in trouble.
MR. ROBINSON: You didn't stay there very long.
4 5 MR. VO: Yes.
6 MR. ANG: I'm familiar with the pipe support 7 inspection program at Shearon Harris. Mr. Vo's concern 8 relates to documentation of inspection records prior to 9 this new inspection program that they have gotten into, 10 and the question is, what controls have been there for the :
11 old records that they had obtained with this old i 12 inspection program and ,vdurt does that do in relation to 13 the new inspection program; is that correct?
14 MR. VO: Yes.
15 MR. GUILD: There may be other issues involved 16 too, but that certainly sounds --
17 MR. ANG: If there are, I would like to hear 18 from Mr. Vo. As far as I see now, it's the only issue.
19 MR. GUILD: Mr. Ang, Mr. Van Vo and I.
Excuse me a second. The reason, you 20 MR. VO:
21 see, if they have some planning to destroy, they should be 22 destroyed all CMR. They cannot destroy a partial and keep
$b
57 20852.0 KSW I a partial. The question in my mind is why they destroy, 2 you know, a partial of the CMR, and besides that, at that 3 time CP&L have a TB. I don't know what that stand for, TB 4 consultant.
l 5 MR. ANG: What were they doing.
MR. VO: They were doing the hanger. They 6
7 prepare the new package, they create a new package. they 8 repair how to control, you know, set up the program, 9 whatever they do.
f 10 MR. GUILD: Let me make an observation. It -
! 11 seems to me inappropriate to, in effect, cross-examine Mr.
i 12 van Vo about the legal and regulatory issues that are 13 involved in the facts that he brings to you. He brings a 14 set of facts to you, and I consider it the NRC's .
15 responsibility to review all implications of those facts.
16 The tone of the question was, I heard, if Mr. Van Vo 17 doesn't ring the correct Appendix B criterion bell, we're 18 not going to follow this matter.
19 MR. ANG: That's not true.
20 MR. GUILD: Do you hear what I'm saying?
21 MR. ANG: Let me say what I have to say first.
22 What I've heard so far is this concern.regarding controls. !
l 51'
58 20852.0 KSW I 1 I'm trying to understand all his concerns, and I'm trying to get those concerns out. If there are, I would like to 2
3 hear them.
MR. GUILD: He's brought you the facts. He 4
5 finds destroyed documents in an obviously uncontrolled 6 place, in a trash heap, and I say to you as a lawyer that 7 it occurs to me that that raises questions about 8 , compliance with at least one appendix B criterior related 9 to documents control. It may raise a whole number of 10 others, but the tone of the question was if Mr. Van Vo a -
11 doesn't cite to that appendix B criterion as his concern 12 that ends the matter.
13 MR. ROBINSON: I agree with what you're saying 14 in that his presentation of facts don't necessarily have 15 to be accompanied by everything that he thinks is wrong 16 with that. And we understand that.
17 MR. VO:
The point you know --
18 MR. ANG: I'm trying to get as much information 19 as I can.
20 MR.'VO: I know very clear about 10 CFR, 21 appendix B. The reason I brought the problem is in your 22 job you know what requirement the utilities should go by I
2
i 1
59 20852.0 KSW l the right guide and should be performed reflect to that.
2 My question, do they go to the right guide. To the CP&L 3 performance like that, is it not violation regular guide 4 or are they going by the regular guide.
5 MR. ANG: We want all you think we need to know, 6 get all that information.
7 MR. VO: You are professionals. You know 8 exactly what your NRC issue to the utility. I don't need 9 to repeat about that.
10 MR. ROBINSON: We are aware of the significance l
11 of certain facts that you may present to us from our 12 standpoint, but we're interested in the significance of 13 those facts from your angle too.
14 MR. VO: I do what I could, but the point I did 15 not bring out the problem because I think, you know, you-16 know exactly whether they are matched with the appendix B 17 or not matched with appendix B.
18 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, continue.
19 MR. VO: In November and December 2d, the two 20 DDR numbers before, they supersede the DDR procedure. The 21 . point I would like to point out, the number right there.
22 MR. ANG: DDR 2317 and 2327.
l GA
-1 1
60 20852.0 KSW l MR. ROBINSON: Are you just pointing out the 2 number to identify the paper or do you have a significance l 3 to --
4 MR. VO: No, that's seismic, you know, 5 deficiency about HVAC, and I would like to supply one more 6 information. Due to I have so many friends on site, due 7 to conversation with them, they have ordered, you know, 8 when they stop work on the hanger, the QA inspector no 9 more, you know, try to cut down the number of deficiency 10 on noncompliance to be issued. If they found something . -
11 wrong, the best way to do is by interoffice memorandum, 12 and right here the memorandum on October 10. I really 13 don't know NRC have that memorandum.
14 MR. ANG: This is a QA surveillance report?
15 MR. ROBINSON: Number 83860.
16 MR. ANG: Regarding pipe hanger installation, 17 preliminary.
18 MR. ROBINSON: On these two DDRs, Mr. Vo, are 19 you trying to indicate that you don't think they were 20 dispositioned or --
21 MR. VO: I don't know they are dispositions or 22 not. Anything in the QA organization. The DDR ;ust A
bo
61 20852.0 KSW 1 supplied from a friend of mine who was a QA inspector.
MR. ROBINSON: You're supplying this to us to 2
3 guide us to a potential problem?
4 MR. VO: No, I'm not to guide you to do the job 5 because you know better than I am.
6 MR. ROBINSON: No, no. We --
7 MR. VO: I would like to point right here the 8 number of DDR, you know, due to the June, 1983, to 9 November 1983 for inspection, and the DDR number and what 10 the safety injection piping, they have so many like DDR a .
11 1914 issued 825883 for safety injection piping, for valve 12 inspection, for pipe hqnger, for anything, I would supply.
13 I do not know which one are dispositioned.
14 MR. ROBINSON: Okay. But like I said, you are 15 giving this to us for our -- for us to look at the 16 integrity of this installation?
17 MR. VO: No, for your information. I would say !
18 like to point a number because after the procedure, DDR l
, 19 procedure being superceded and the NCR, the new procedure
- 20 was come up to take place and to go back the number 001 21 and no more DDR on January --
22 MR. ROBINSON: So the number was significant.
bl
62 20852.0 KSW 1 MR. VO: Right here, the one I just gave to you, 2 right here, right now DDR no more in at Shearon Harris nuclear power plant. The reason I know exactly. They are 3
4 a threat to be like Zimmer because if, you know, in 5 December, 1983, you try to ask director of the QA, CP&L QA 6 how many DDR being issued and how many NCR being issued 7 and how many DDR being issued, I think the number should 8 come up approximately over 4000. And now they go back, 9 you know, with the new procedure, they go back again to 10 number one.
11 MR. ROBINSON: And do you think or do you know 12 they destroyed the --
13 MR. VO: No, they cannot destroy it. They got 14 to be keep in the records. I don't think they couldn't 15 destroy that nonconformance.
16 MR. ROBINSON: So even though they changed the 17 numbering system to maybe what, show that there were not 18 very many nonconformances in Shearon Harris, that there 19 were 4000 up to that point when they changed the number? ;
l 20 MR. VO: Because I know exactly Mr. Buck 21 Williams, he was a former mechanical engineer from TVA, 22 and he very good. He experienced in the QA QC field very i
1 l
63 20852.0 KSW
'l i 1 strong, and he know exactly what's going on, and, you know, 2 to avoid the same situation with some nuclear power plants 3 being shut down by such and such, and he prepare a 4 different way.
5 MR. ROBINSON: Are you saying that he knows that 6 if NRC or someone sees that too many NCRs and DDRs are 7 coming up, that the numbers are getting up higher?
8 MR. VO: That certain number, yes.
I 9 MR. ROBINSON: They are going to start looking a i 10 lot closer and possibly close down the plant. a .
11 MR. VO: That's what I think. i don't know NRC f 12 procedure. I don't know.
13 MR. ROBINSON: That's what you think, but was it 14 Buck Williams' idea to change the number --
15 MR. VO: No, I don' t - think Buck Williams. The 16 higher level management downtown, not Buck Williams.
17 MR.. ANG: Did I understand you correctly, or am 18 I wrong, are you saying that they are no longer writing as I
20 MR. VO: I don't think DDRs no longer exist.
21 Q They don't use them any more, but they are using 1
22 'NCRs, and they are'still writing NCRs or --
. I
64 20852.0 KSW l MR. VO: No, a new procedure, new number, right 2 there.
3 MR. ANG: I'm trying to get to the bottom of 4 your concerns as far as numbers, and I recognize there's a 5 concern with this appearance of numbers, but is there a 6 concern that they are still writing nonconformances?
7 MR. VO: They still do but, you know, I have one 8 DDR nonconformance, one nonconformance should be right now 9 about a hundred number. They try to cover one 10 nonconformance, 36 page. I have that. And I do have like. "
11 you know, I express to you about the memorandum that 12 should be they write nonconformance, they didn't do it.
13 They just issue memorandum.
14 MR. ANG: You mean the QA surveillance report?
15 MR. VC: Yes..
16 MR. GUILD: I think he mentioned speed letters 17 as well as a source of documenting deficiencies.
18 MR. ROBINSON: And interoffice memos.
19 MR. GUILD: And interoffice memos.
20 MR. ANG: The interoffice memo he gave us was
)
21 forwarding the QA surveillance report if I read that 22 correctly. Is this the innerof fice ' memo you' re talking l
I
=_ -
65 20852.0 KSW l about? That forwards the QA surveillance report, which is 2 a formal QA document.
3 MR. GUILD: But it's not an NCR or deficiency 4 report and seems to reflect a large number of deficiencies.
5 MR. ANG: Yes.
6 MR. GUILD: Maybe there are NCRs or deficiency 7 reports out there. We just don't know.
8 MR. ROBINSON: Do you have a line you want to 9 continue on now?
10 MR. VO: Yeah, the last one documentation I '
.~.
11 brought today is about my speed letter to my supervisor 12 about the condition of the pump.
13 MR. ROBINSON: Condition of the pump? Okay, 14 yes.
15 MR. ROBINSON: This is a speed letter to Alec 16 Fuller from Van Vo Davis.
17 MR. VO: Yes.
18 MR. ROBINSON: Dated 8-25-82, regarding extreme 19 loads on the steam generator feed pump. Why don't you go
- 20. ahead and tell us --
l 21 MR. VO: I just would like the information the 22 time I have been informed to load impose on the feed pump I
65 1
66 20852 0 KSW 1 and when they fixed it because a year after, you know, my information to them, they start to fix. In particular, 2
3 Mr. Ang will know about the stress imposed on the pump a 4 long time period, about a year, do the material of the 5 pump steel good to be stand there or need to be removed.
6 The CPEL documentation will show when they fixed that pump.
7 MR. ANG: They cold-sprung the pipe, right?
8 MR. VO: Yes.
9 MR. ANG: When they did that and attached it to
-10 the pump, they kept it installed for a year; is that what :
11 you were saying?
12 MR. VO At that time I -- that's in my area, 13 the turbine building is my building, but I am perform on 14 the hanger, not the piping, I see with the 24a-inch pipe 15 with the gas. check valve and gate valve, and due to they 16 drop down to the pump to connect to the pump in vertical, 17 they have a deviation. They are r.ot fixed right on the circumference, on the outside of the pipe. And they use 18 19 comealong, try to force the pipe to fit to the pump and 20 tank.
21 MR. ROBINSON: Pipe to. fit to the pump.
22 MR. ANG: You're talking about the welder joint
67 20852.0 KSW l
between the pipe and the flange? j 1
i MR. VO: No , not flange. It's welded directly 2
3 to the pump, and I tried to inform the condition to my 4 supervisor, to Mr. Willett.
5 MR. ROBINSON: You sent this to Fuller?
6 MR. VO: Yes. I'm asking him because I'm under 7 very discipline, I'm asking him do he allow me to, you 8 know, notify to Mr. E. E. Willett, or what I have to do.
9 He say, you write a speed letter to me, I route. And the 10 field steel keep, you know, work, to finish that weld, and .
11 when they wear out they take off comealong, then they go
- 12 back to buy dial indicator to check the condition of the 13 pump, and they found like in my chart --
14 MR. ANG: You're talking about the pump to . motor 15 or shaft alignment?
16 MR. VO: Yes.
17 MR. ANG: Was that ever bought off?
18 MR. VO: I don't know,. sir. They might, sir.
19 MR. ROBINSON: You indicated that a year later 20 they were making some kind of correction to that situation?
21 MR. VO: I talk to Mr. Roy Settle. He was in ,
i 22 charge on the whole equipment installation at Shearon l I
67!
68 20852.0 KSW L Harris nuclear power plant, I asked him, Roy, do you know that problem happened? He said, Chan, I do know the 2
3 problem happened. And I did inform to Mr. E. E. Willett 4 three times and the last time Mr. Willett say, Roy, I
' don't want to hear that problem no more. If something 5
6 happens, I will get you first. That's what he said.
7 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, that was the day after you 4
8 found this in the trash can, right?
l 9 MR. VO: Yes.
10 MR. ROBINSON: Did you find the letter in the "
11 trash can -- you gave this to Fuller, and the next day you 12 found this in the trash can?
MR. VO: They have a speed letter. They have 13 14 three copies. I keep the yellow, and the white to Mr.
15 Fuller, and you know, every morning they have a lady, che,
< 16 you know, clean up desks and trash for anyone, and I look 17 at this because I very easy to recognize my handwriting.
18 MR. ROBINSON: .ind then you talked to Roy Settle 19 about that?
- 20 MR. VO: Yes, because I really considering'this 21 case, and Roy with me. We have been working together. I 22 have very good coordination with electrical people, with 4
b bb i
69 20852.0 KSW l mechanical people, with people and with the field, you know, and I talk to him. Particularly he was a former 2
3 soldier. He went to my country.
MR. ROBINSON: And it was after that when you 4
5 kept talking to Mr. Fuller about this problem, that's when 6 pressure started?
7 MR. VO: No, sir. Well, you know, I'm so have 8 .given up because I think, you know, anything I do, you 9 know, prepare recommend so many procedures to Mr. Fuller, 10 to Mr. E. E. Willett, but any recommend, they throw away. -
11 Only one program, the hanger program, that's my 12 handwriting, and being checked by INPO, and they have very 13 good program, but now they don't use.it. I prepared a 14 program for hanger of the week, and then they use hanger 15 of the month, and now they have hanger of the 6 month, and 16 finally hanger o' the year, and now they don't use it.
17 MR. GUILD: What was the program about?
18 MR. VO: The hanger of the week program.
19 MR. ROBINSON: To mate an award for the best --
20 MR. VO: dest check and double check the 21 condition of one.
22 MR. ROBINSON: Back once again, you said that
70 20852.0 KSW 1 when you talked to Mr. Roy Settle -- is it Settle or 2 Saddle?
3 MR. VO: S-e-t-t-1-e.
At that poin., e you had already 4 MR. ROBINSON:
5 been under so much pressure that you had given up, or was J
6 that kind of the start of the pressure?
7 MR. VO: Yes. You know, particular if you go 8 back in the organization chart, the CP&L very racial 9 discrimination, particularly mechanical department. They 10 are so proud theirselves and no Black engineer in there, 11 only one, me, is yellow, and they start isolating me. You 12 see one person in same department just early in the 13 morning is not working because usually I show up early, he 14 stop by, want to be friendly, talk to me, and then his 15 supervisor call him back. You don't have business with 16 him. Don't talk to him.
17 MR. ROBINSON: When did that happen, soon after 18 you were hired?
19 MR. VO: No, sir, af ter the three years later 20 that happened, when I was with Alec Fuller and E. E. ,
\
21 Willett put the pressure on me.
22 ha. ROBINSON: How would you estimate your work 10)1
_. __ __ , .m _- ,_
71 l 20852.0 I KSW !
l 1 load compared to other engineers in your section during 2 that time?
3 MR. VO: Yes. My name right there, that 4 organization, from February 14, 1983, my performance 5 turbine all turbine building, Al-A4 elevation, 261 6 auxiliary building, and 254 pipe tunnel in RAB, and that's 7 inside the building, and the screening structure right 8 about one mile, two miles from inside the building, only 9 myself, sir. On this February 14.
10 MR .' ROBINSON: Okay --
11 MR. VO: And he has compared with other 12 engineers.
13 MR. ROBINSON: These are your areas of 14 responsibility?
4 15 MR. VO: Yes.
16 MR. ROBINSON: You' re saying these areas of responsibility are much more difficult than'these areas of 17 r
18 responsibilities?
MR. VO: I didn't say so, sir. I said work load, 19 20 you know, only myself I had to take care of the turbine 21 building. They have four different elevations, 240 22 elevation, 260 elevation, 280 elevation and 314 elevation.
1 1
l 72 20852.0 KSW l And I be 261, see, they subdivide for Al and A4. Al and 1
2 A4, so many seismic hangers, and in the pipe tunnel 254 at l 3 RAB, and beside that, when I was inside a building, l 4 particularly when I went to 10, I had to work all the time 5 go out to the screening structure.
[
6 MR. ROBINSON: And none of these other guys had I
7 to do anywhere near that. amount of work?
8 MR. VO: You can look on that organization --
9 MR. ROBINSON: Well, I can't --
10 MR. VO: A3, A4, like Mr. Williams, and 10 11 building just a small area, it's nothing in 10 building, 12 and looked like Pat Crisco, A2, A3 and 236 RAB. Johnny 13 Jackson A1, A3, and from February and 2-14, only one month 14 when they found so much, they put so much'on me, they-15 changed turbine and A-2-261.
16 MR. ROBINSON: They reduced your work load?
17 MR. VO: They change that. He asked me, when 18- you quit, Chan? I said, I'm trying to look for another 19 job. When I get a job, I'll let you know, sir, but --
20 MR. ROBINSON: Who said that, Fuller?
21 MR. VO: Yes.
22 MR. ROBINSON: Go ahead.
b .. - - . .
73 20852.0 KSW l MR. VO: May 22, 1983, they changed from the 2 building engineer to system engineer and you look right 3 here how many systems they let out, three more systems, 4 did not list in here. 15 systems, if you compare the 5 chart --
6 MR. ANG: Was there any work going on in those 7 systems?
8 MR. VO: Yes, they have some very -- the systems 9 are very different. Takes care of the whole system for 10 the whole plant. You have to look on the flow diagram 11 from flow diagram to where they are.
12 MR. ANG: Was there any actual construction work 13 going on in those?
14 MR. VO: What do you mean, sir?
15 MR. ANG: Were they putting up pipe support 16 valves on the systems they left out?
17 MR. VO: I don't know.
18 MR. ANG: I was trying to find - out the reason 19 for leaving out those systems, if there was any.
20 MR. VO: The systems the pipes were built in, 21 the pipes and the hanger to be done together.
22 MR. ANG: What systems were left out, do you 11
74 20852.0 KSW 1 know?
2 MR. VO: Right here.
3 MR. ANG: Those were the ones people were 4 assigned to?
f 5 MR. VO: Yes.
l 6 MR. ANG: What systems were people not assigned i 7 to? You said there were three systems left out.
8 MR. VO: Three I couldn't remember, sir. And l
9 that's May 22, 1983, and June 17, 1983, my writing, you 10 see 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 11 17, 18. And you, right here, the engineers, how many, and 12 any time like that I keep because I know the situation. I 13 keep my mouth shut. Whatever he do, I try to do it.
14 That's all.
I 15 MR. ROBINSON, Okay, I understand what you're 16 saying.
17 MR. ANG: You had safet.y injection?
18 MR. VO : Yes.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Did Fuller or Willett or anyone 20 ever outwardly make a discriminatory racial statement 21 against you?
22 MR. VO: They did not really, sir, they just s
75 20852.0 KSW l tried -- they tried to play game with me. Only Mr. Ed 2 McLean, he come to ask Mr. E. E. Willett, I need Chan.
3 Please let him walk with me because he tried to take me 4 out.
MR. ROBINSON: What was Mr. McLean's job?
5 6 MR. VO: He was a supervisor in equipment and 7 HVAC installation at that time. But Mr. Willett said no.
8 MR. ANG: He's a field engineer or --
9 MR. VO: Yes.
1.0 - MR. ROBINSON: Would Willett not let you go 11 because you feel he was determined to run you off?
12 MR. VO: No. The reason is very -- if you told 13 the reason it's very terrible because it should be -- Mr.
14 E. E. Willett, the first time he take over from Mr. Scotty Hinnant, and he called me into his office. He said, Chan, 15 16 in this department, you and me are old, and he introduced 17 to me by himself. He said, I am captain in U.S. Navy. I 18 say, it's very good, sir, because I know, as far as I know, 19 you know, the U.S. Navy traditional when you come up to me, 20 you know, to captain they have very strong leadership and 21 I said, CP&L have very good man to lead the mechanical 22 department, to perform the job. I said, that's perfect in l
l
\
7G 20852 0 KSW l my -- I said yes, I really learn to respect anyone.
2 MR. ANG: Who was this?
3 MR. VO: Mr. E. E. Willett. And about three or 4 four, you know, a year, he set up a mechanical department 5 like a party together.
6 MR. ROBINSON: Oh, a beer bash?
7 MR. VO: Yes. He asked me to cook. I make 8 fried rice. I try to enjoy, you know, with people, and 9 finally in 1982, we have a Mr. Mike Taggart, he set up the 10 party in at one person's house. They have like a lake, 11 and we in a park, and we finally play -- he asked me way 12 to play cards.
13 I said, I don't know how play cards. What American 14 cards, you know, I don't know, but I enjoy just any time 15 because Ed McLean playing that time, and if I win, you know, you get money for me. If I lose, you take it. Just 16 17 try to enjoy, you know, and Mr. Taggart on the table, Mr.
E. E. Willett, Mr. Ed McLean and me. I don't know they 18 19 play because I don' t know the game. And finally Mr.
20 Taggart, he lost his all money, and he so mad because he's 21 the white person. He show his hands to Willett, he said, i 22 you some -- I said, don't talk to your boss that way. I 16
77 20852.0 KSW l even lose mine. And finally, Mr. Taggart, you know, he 2 asked me, you know, because he run out about 70 miles from :
l his home, and he asked me,to borrow some money. I said I 3
4 got $10. You can take it. And he go home, and two weeks i 5 later he and his wife be laid off, and I come to ask Mr.
6 Fuller, and the day they laid him off they had the 7 graduate student, the new graduate student, to take 8 Taggart's place.
9 MR. ANG: Taggart in this organization works for 10 Daniel Construction? ?.
11 MR. VO: Yes.
12 O A new person was being hired by Daniel?
13 MR. VO: By Daniel, sir, and they lay both off, 14 husbana and wife, and I come, you know, everyone in all my 15 life I feel terrible, you know, to see the people, you 16 know, I, just my impression, the personal conflict, but 17 you got to think about Mr. Taggart. He have three kids.
18 I come to ask Mr. Fuller about that. Assuming someone did l
19 on you like this one, like this case, hot, you react? How l
you feel. Don't be pushing a conflict to her and the )
- 20 21 three little kids, you know, and Mr. Fuller say, Chan, you You CP&L. Don't worry about that. I say 22 are not Daniel.
ll
78 20852.0 KSW no, I really worry about my case. That's why I come to l
2 ask you.
.MR. ROBINSON: You think that because Taggart 3
4 insulted Willett that Taggart got laid off, you think that 5 was it?
6 MR. VO: I'm positive. Anyone knows that, sir.
MR. ROBINSON: Does Willett have the capability 7
8 -of laying off Daniel employees?
9 MR. VO: Yes. He just order to the office.
10 MR. ANG: Indirectly, he does.
11 MR. ROBINSON: Okay. And Taggart is a Caucasian, 12 white man?
13 MR. VO: Yes, but because his home town isn' t 14 here, he come up to New York. That's why he's not in the 15 party, and you look on the chart right here, could you 16 tell me who's the Black man in here from the beginning to 17 now I can bet with you.
18 MR. ROBINSON: That there aren't any?
19 MR. VO: Two Black engineers come to interview.
20 They never get a job, and back in 1979, due to the 21 Greensboro conflict, the town in North Carolina, about the KKK, and they fight in,the street. That's on the case, 22
+
'l 1%
L J
79 20852.0 KSW 1 all the department nobody working because r. hey just communication with outside, forget some sources about that
~.d I'm asking some friend of mine. He said, what 4 are you talking about, that he say, we.'re talk about white 5 party. That's what it was explained to me.
6 MR. ROBINSON: The increased work load on you, 7 was that mainly that kind of pressure that was put on you, 8 .they kept putting more work on you, Fuller and Willett.
9 MR. VO: Actually Willett ordered down to Fuller.
10 MR. ROBINSON: They kept assigning you more work 11 in an effort 'o-try to make you quit?
12 MF,. VO: Yes, that's right, sir.
13 MR. ROBINSON: Fuller kept asking you when you 14 were going to quit?
15 MR. VO Yes..
16 MR. ROBINSON: Did he ask you more than once?
17 MR. VO: I think about six or seven times, I 18 believe the last before they told me that terminate my job, 19 he asked me before he did that.
20 MR. ROBINSON: You told him that you were 21 looking for another job and when you found one --
22 MR. VO: I letting him know right away because 1 N- M - - - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ _ _ _
80 20852.0 J
KSW 1 do look in the jobs.
MR. ROBINSON: I think it says it in the 2
3 affidavit, but how long had this been going ant before you 4 were terminated?
5 MR. VO: Oh, for about year and a half, sir.
6 MR. ROBINSON: About a year and a half? And the 7 reason it started --
8 MR. VO: The reason, you know --
9 MR. RGb1NSON: Was because of the 24-inch pipe 10 thing? ,
11 MR. VO: No, sir, more than that. The reason I 12 am so concerned about the welfare of the company. When I 13 did right here due to, you know, communication and 14 information, training and information, back there, I have 15 some friends work with Bechtel and Ebasco, and I tried to 16 prepare a program. I do have the paper on my desk that 17 the guidelines for system as built, walkdown verification.
18 MR. ROBINSON: Did somebody order you to develop 19 those guidelines or did you do those on your own?
20 MR. VO: No, sir, I do them at home in my own, and Ed Willett see that guideline. He asked me to give to 21 22 him. I say yes, you want to have, because I try to kC
l l
81 20852.0 !
KSW l l
)
1 prepare at home, you know, for you, sir, and he brought that to Ash Lucas. I don't know what he talking about, 2
3 but finally, you know, when I finished the whole program, 4 I run a copy and gave to Mr. Willett and Mr. Fuller, but 5 this time I make sure I mail to downtown because I talk to 6 McDuffy --
7 MR. ROBINSON: You're not sure whether you 8 mailed that to McDuffy or not?
9 MR. VO: I mailed it to McDuffy to make sure Mr.
10 Willett and Mr. Fuller don't throw my recommendation away. s -
11 MR. ROBINSON: You are sure you mailed that?
12 MR. VO: I mailed that to downtown, and here's 13 Mr. McDuffy's feedback, anc Mr. Fuller md Mr- Alec Fuller 14 say, it's not good. Just __. ~ thing, and I said, okay, 15 sir, 1: you say trust, tha t ' s I war 1rd. If you say 16 that's not good program, okay. Thank y;, , sir. I kee9 it 17 and I can guarantee I not spea' Ene: so well, t_1 1 try ,
t can bet >
pt= :t. -n tth a 18 to learr 19 profess:ct. _. I think e ttle b 1 eff- ^ mechan _ 11 l
- ti give ycu enat for infor- ion, 20 -
Lear pc*, r plant.
21 %. ROBINSn McDuff; agnt the program ..s f
2, goca you don't think tr -hat -- id Fuller or Willett
\
61
- J
82 20852.0 KSW l tell you that they thought it was bad?
MR. VO: Fuller told me that program is too bad, i 2 !
I 3 no good.
i MR. ROBINSON: Why? Did he give you a reason?
4 5 MR. VO: He said, he just say no good. That's 6 all.
7 MR. ROBINSON: When did you submit this.
8 MR. VO: July 1983, sir, because at that time 9 due to RRFT, the construction they call ready for turnover, 10 they stop.- They say, you know, ready for testing, and we .?
11 are so behind. I have a computer printout how behind they 12 are by the CP&L compute,r information about, you know, the 13 turnover, schedule so far behind schedule. 800 weeks 14 behind schedule, and I tried to perform that because.we 15 shot one shot and stress analyzers, and we less personnel, 16 less manpower, only one shot will turn over to the start 17 up. And right here, the temporary procedure on the seismic piping, use a cable for temporary turnover. Here 18 19 is that procedure.
20 MR. ROBINSON: I'm quite sure that you've got a 21 lot of good ideas technically.
22 MR. VO: No, I just learned, sir.
$b
83 20852.0 KSW l MR. ROBINSON: The primary purpose for this is ,
t 2 to -- I want you to give us examples of the -- specific ;
3 examples of the harassment and intimidation that's put on 4 you by Willett and --
5 MR. VO: That's one of the --
4 j 6 MR. ROBINSON: You're saying that Willett is l
7 harassing you because he's not accepting your suggestion n 8 for a new program?
9 MR. VO: No, and so many things that we cannot 10 point out one thing, sir,, because he might be harass me :
11 because I'm asking Alec Fuller, why, you know, you did 12 that on Mr. Taggart case and how about me, because I know 1
13 the situation, you know, could you let me know because I 14 feeling, you know, no stability in my -- on my job, you 15 know, no security on my job, and I know where I'm going 16 and in so many directions because like Mr. Ed McLean, you 17 know, when -- because I couldn't express to you how I i 18 don't know why -- I try to adapt to learn to be with 19 people, but I don't know why, you know, two people, Mr.
20 Willett and Mr. Alec Fuller, is very hard to get, but I i 21 always say when I left my country I try to be -- I need 22 the friendship because friendship to me is something very, I
e
84 20852.0 KSW you know, more than money, and anyway, I work. I need l
2 that kind of atmosphere and attitude and you will see in 3 my recommendation and promotion from CP&L how attitude I 4 am.
5 And even two days ago I come back in, J. A. Jones, I 6 talk to my former supervisor, Thomas French. Mr. French 7 is a very leadership and very organized CPEL employee, and 8 Mr. Willett take over, and he being seven years with CP&L,
=
9 his house in Raleigh. He have his wife and his kidt. He 10 had to quit his job to move his house to Charlotte to work 11 with J. A. Jones, and now he was a consultant. He back
)
12 and forth in the Shear,on Harris nuclear power plant, and 13 he told me, Chan, you know in my mind very strange. I'm i
14 asking Tom maybe you know more than I am, why the 15 beginning we do very gQod and then the CP&L organization 16 called Duke Power come to Harris site, and Tom told me 17 they are afraid.
18 MR. ANG: Did they come in in a resident 19 engineering outfit or in the Harris plant engineering 20 outfit? Your construction outfit is the resident 21 engineering outfit, field engineers?
22 MR. VO: Yes.
i h
85 20852.0 KSW MR. ANG: As field engineers, not in the HPs.
1 2 MR. VO: And now the Harris plant delay six more 3 months.
4 MR. ANG: The resident engineers are the field 5 engineers and HPs are more the design type organization?
6 MR. VO: If-you look back now at CP&L record, 7 400, the seismic instrumentation packages be are on hold-8 .right now and to me and with Mr. Tom French, I can
! 9 guarantee that plant in one more year cannot because I 10 know next June 1985, the Westinghouse will ship on site.
They will ship material to site. No matter CP&L finished, 11 12 you know, field hand and. building or not. You can store 13 material sore.ewhere. That's why I try at the time I am 14 employed, I try to reflect through the schedule. I tried 15 to recommend to my supervisors, you know, to --
1 16 MR. ROBINSON: To improve the schedule? You 17 would give him ways to improve the schedule?
18 MR. VO: Yes.
. 19 MR. ROBINSON: And he doesn't listen?
MR. VO: No, sir. No one listens. That's why I 20 21 will, you know, right now I learn. Here's my background.
22 That's why I'm not constructior. but I am learning about j 1
l l
h.
86 ;
20852.0 KSW l operations.
MR. ROBINSON: I can see that you're very 2
3 concerned about this plant and its proper operation.
4 MR. GUILD: If I can drop in, Chan, you have some information about your transfer request. You tried 5
6 to be transferred from under Willett and Fuller, and maybe 7 you can explain about that.
8 MR. VO: Because Mr. McDuffy say, Chan, you're a 9 good man, after I cry with him, I says, I really cry 10 because I'm so upset, and he say, you go back in the field,:'
request transfer and I will help you. I listen to him, I 11 12 filled the form out. It's just a form.
13 MR. ROBINSON: You're requesting that you're 14 transfer request be reactivated?
15 MR. VO: Yes, but nowhere, one time --
16 MR. ROBINSON: Where did you want to go?
17 MR. VO: Anywhere. I just tried to get out of 18 that pressure, I said anywhere, no matter where. Just to 19 get out of the pressure.
.20 MR. GUILD: This document here is from March of '83 21 and says that you're re-activating after 90 days so three 22 months before that you first applied for a transferr is
87 l 20852.0 ;
KSW 1 that my understanding?
2 MR. VO: Yes.
3 MR. GUILD: Did Fuller and Willett agree to the 4 transfer?
5 MR. VO: The people say I should get it. He got
> 6 to sign here on the paperwork, but you know, when the
- 7 people want to be transferred to them, they got to call 8 him or call Ed Willett to check on that, and when they 9 call them, you know what happened.
10 MR. ROBINSON: So when you fill out this form "
11 and Fuller signs it --
12 MR. VO: Yes.,
l 13 MR. ROBINSON: He is essentially saying by 14 signing it that, yeah, you're available for transfer but 15 somebody needs to call me and ask for you.
16 MR. VO: Yes.
17 MR. ROBINSON: Do you know for a fact that 18 somebody called Fuller or Willett and asked for you?
, 19 MR. VO: One time I went down to Robinson plant.
They called me down for an interview. And they said, Chan 20 21 you go back, prepare next week, you know, move down here, l 22 move down to work with, you know, at Robinson plant and l S1
88 20852.0 KSW 1 I'm so happy. I'm go back, you know, to prepare to move.
MR. ROBINSON: When was that? How long before 2
3 your termination was that?
4 MR. VO: About early that time, 1983.
- 5 MR. ROBINSON: March, April of '837 MR. VO: Yes. And he called, and then, you know, 6
7 about due to conversation with Alec Fuller or Willett, I don't know, and he called me back. He say the program, 8
9 you know, we don' t have money for the program, and they 10 cancelled. "
MR. ROBINSON: The same man that told you? Do 11 12 you remember what this man's name was?
13 MR. VO: I don't remember.
14 MR. ROBINSON: Personnel?
15 MR. VO: He was a manager for Robinson plant at 16 that time.
17 MR. ROBINSON: At about March or April of 1983?
18 MR. VO: Yes.
19 MR. ROBINSON: Plant manager interviewed you?
20 MR. VO Yes He take me, go out for lunch with 21 nis assistant.
22 MR. ROBINSON: And he called you back and said Ib
l 89 )
20852.0 1 1
KSW l 1 it's not in the budget, we don't have the money?
2 MR. VO: Yes.
3 MR. ANG: Was his name --
MR. VO: He's real tiny. He's so tall. He come 4
5 from up north. I have one problem; it's very hard to 6 remember American names.
7 MR. ROBINSON: Anyone else, did you have 8 interviews or anyone else tell you that they wanted you 9 and they would be calling Fuller?
10 MR. VO: You see, after that I asked, you know, l
11 a friend of mine, Jim Bell, he's an electrical supervisor.
12 I asked Jim, do you know someone down at Southport, we had 13 the plant over there, and he made the memorandum, you know, 14 recommend me to his friend. I went down to show, you know, 15 the presentation, you know, by Mr. Jim Bell to the person 16 in that plant. But, you know, finally two or three days 17 later, the.same result, you know, they say they don't have 18 job opening for me.
i
- 19 MR. ROBINSON
- The same guy you talked to in 20 Sourthport called you back and said they don't have an 21 opening?
22 MR. VO: I called him back; he didn't call me.
f
90 20852 0 KSW MR. ROBINSON: Would Bell know who this guy was?
1 2 MR. VO: I grt at home, you know, I keep that 3 recommendation, that memorandum.
4 MR. ROBINSON: And it's your feeling that these 5 guys, the plant manager .it Robinson and this fellow at 6 Southport, wanted you and then they called Fuller and 7 Fuller talked it down?
i 8 MR. VO: Not actually Fuller. Maybe Fuller, but i
9 some people inside. Some friends of mine say, you know 10 who did that? I say, I don't know. They say it's Mr. ,
11 McDuffy.
12 MR. ROBINSON: McDuffy kept you from getting 13 transferred, you think?
j 14 MR. VO: They told me that. I don't know what 15 American traditional, but he say, when you come down to 16 talk to him, if he willing to help you you transfer right 17 away. When he are not willing to do so that him give 18 order because any construction organization under his, you 19 know -- that's what they tell me. I don't know.
20 MR. GUILD: You had been to see McDuffy twice at 21 that time, right?
22 MR. VO: Yes.
q0
l i 91 )
20852.0 i KSW j 1 MR. GUILD: You asked for a transfer both times?
MR. VO: Yes. I asked him to lay me off first.
2 3 MR. ROBINSON: Okay, go on. You have another piece of documentation? That's another one of your i 4 5 programs?
6 MR. VO: No, I just try to show you show, you 7 know, that Alec Fuller and Jim Jensen -- the procedure for temporary, you know, hanger on seismic hanger. If you 8
9 walk into the plant you'll see the cable all around, and 10 that's the procedure. a -
11 MR. GUILD: What's important about that 12 procedure, Chan?
13 MR. VO: That's when they transfer, you know, 14 they should be install permanent hanger. They don't.have 15 time to do that, and all they do is a partial, and then
. 16 they do like a cable to -- they say the I-bolts attach, 17 the steel plate they cut like the horseshoe.
~
18 MR. ANG: What are you saying? I guess --
19 MR. GUILD: You told me you thought this was a 20 bad procedure.
21 MR. VO: To me a very bad procedure.
22 MR. GUILD: This is an example of something 4
92 20852.0 KSW Fuller is responsible for? Is that what you're saying?
l 2 MR. VO: Yeah.
3 MR. GUILD May not be something you want to go 4 into in-depth, but I think generally chan is expressing 5 that both Fuller and Willett were not performing competent 6 work and there were widespread criticisms of the hanger 7 program. He was criticized for his work, yet Fuller and 8 Willett's own work was very deficient, and this is an 9 example of a procedure that he found that reflected that.
10 MR. ROBINSON: Who else, Mr. Vo, who else would f
11 tell me that Mr. Willett's and Mr. Fuller's work is bad?
12 MR. VO: Anyone, you know. Anyone know that.
13 MR. ROBINSON: Who?
14 MR. VO: Any CP&L engineer because Willett just 15 try like he's talking brag, he's number one, you know, 16 talk to E.E. Williett, he was number one, and he's he act 17 that way.
18 MR. ROBINSON: That doesn't have anything to do 19 with his competence. Who can I talk to regarding --
MR. VO: I'm not an appraiser. Talk to say who 20 21 talked to thst. I can't remember, but you know, due to 22 the conversation like in the friendship to the field, you
93 20852.0 KSW l know, and they know Mr. Willett very good. He told me he 2 was a former U.S., you know, captain, U.S. Navy you take 3 that you know what -- I don't know his real captain or not but anyway when he speak out, you know, even he want to 4
5 talk this problem, the glass, before going to the problem 6 he say, God damn it, or you know before going to problem.
7 That's the kind language he use. All the time.
8 MP. . GUILD: Chan, you explained to 6.c ence that you thought both Fuller and Willett had been that the 9
company themselves had found problems with their work. Do 10 t 11 you remember, and maybe that's sometuing that the NRC 12 people would be aware of.
13 MR. ROBINSON: It's alluded to in here. I was 14 just trying to amplify on that.
15 MR. VO: If you talk to, I don't know they are 16 really one to talk or not, but I get information from 17 Mr. French and some people around, I don't know they are 18 really you know particular right now as CP&L employees if 19 they do something you know that's the way I heard I don't 20 know sir.
21 MR. ROBINSON: Well we can you know we can 22 protect the confidentiality of other CP&L employees. I Oh
94 20852.0 KSW l understand your situation. If you don't want to involve 2 them, I'm just looking _ for evidence of you know a lot of guys have real strong personalities and have blunt and i 3
4 very hard and very hard line and use excessive language 5 and yet are still competent people.
6 MR. VO: You look on the CP&L organization chart.
7 The first, you know, back in 1981, Mr. E.E. Willett take 8 .over from Mr. Scotty Hinnent, now he was a superintendent 9 start up at Shearon Harris Nuclear Power Plant, and 10 Mr. E.E. Willett under his supervision they have three on ."
11 mechanical performance at Shearon under his supervisor and i 12 now what Mr. Willett has on hand, you look right now at 13 present chart, and I like to that you can make 14 determination, Mr. Willett is a good management or you 15 know anyone will look at that organization you can make an 16 evaluation what his performance and you look Mr. Parson he 17 was a project manager and.
18 MR. ANG: Construct!.on project managey.
19 MR. VO: Now if you look on the new organization 20 chart, what is the classification of Mr. Parson, and who 21 will take over the job. Mr. C.C. Wagner from Daniel, and 22 C.C. Wagner, I don't know mu'ch about Mr. Wagner but he was
95 20852.0 KSW 1 experienced from Cincinnati and.
2 MR. ANG: Wolf Creek, Farley?
3 MR. VO: Burns and Roe, and Cincinnati, and if 4 you think I will give you more information what Burns and 5 Roe been doing on WHOOPS and TMI, and Cincinnati, Zimmer, 6 and I would like to show some information what Daniel do.
^
7 MR. ROBINSON: We're well aware of problems at 8 Wolf Creek.
9 MR. VO: I have right here, you see that Harris 10 notebook? -
i 11 MR. VO: When he come over you look on the i 12 Ralci,gh Observer, Mr. Wagner do not accept to use the 13 source of water on site.
14 MR. ANG: For drinking?
i i
15 MR. VO: For his drinking, and the company the
. 16 stainless steel boron tank to be a water supply.
17 MR,. ROBINSON: Well, I don't have any further 18 questions about your harassment and how you have been 19 harassed and intimidated. I think I have an understanding 20 of the use of the purchase order number, the concerns that i
l 21 you've expressed
- regarding the destroyed CMRs, et cetera, 1 l
22 are there any questions in your mind?
4
96 20852.0 KSW MR. ANG: I have a few questions. I would like f l
2 to clarify a few things. Going through this affidavit 3 that you sent in, you mentioned that CPEL management 4 demonstrated time and again that they wanted us to look the other way when we encountered deficiencies. You 5
6 pointed out to us about the problem regarding the main 7 feed pump. Are there any other examples that you're aware 8 of where you were told to look the other way when you 9 encountered deficiencies.
10 MR. VO The reason, the problem by step, step 11 by step to level management. I'm go up to Mr. Lucas, I go 12 up to Mr. Parson. I went down to see Mr. McDuffy.
13 MR. ANG: This was the main feed pump.
14 MR. VO: Yes. And.
15 MR. ANG: We've gone through that already, 16 MR. VO: Back in 1983, you know some material 17 substitution, you will find you will find on the 12 hanger 18 on the refer to DDR -- deficiencies, material substitution 19 they will show well deficiencies and some kind ever more
.20 detail on the DDR. I brought the problem down to 21 Mr. McDuffy and I show to him and finally I talked to 22 Mr. Utley finally, and I didn't see no one concerned about Ab
97 20852.0 KSW 1 it. That's why I'm feeling you know --
2 MR. ANG: There's main feed pump and material 3 substitution problem. Are there any others?
4 MR. VO: That's two.
5 MR. ANG: And that's good.
6 MR. VO: Some more, but finally when the result 7 the more I raises up the problem the more I got trouble 8 and that's the last part. About from that point I say 9 from now on I just be there and keep my eyes close, keep 10 my mouth shut because even you know when I was a CP&L
_s 11 employee, I don't want to talk, you know, even I have an 12 opportunity to talk to NRC commissioner on site, I don't 13 want to talk to them. Because, you know, to me if we got 14 a power plant we try to fix. We don't want to raises the 15 problem to NRC because I'm'a CP&L employee and the point --
16 the reason I raise, I been working and study hard about 17 the nuclear power plant technology both design and 18 operation because before I met, you know, something, 19 adjustment, I need to know very clear what they are going 20 on and I try to -- I don't want any consultant different 21 people outside to come to Shearon Harris Nuclear Power 22 Plant to help us. You know, I want the CP&L engineer to ;
l
)
1 l
1 k
98 20852.0 KSW l handle the problem. That's why my objective that's what 2 I'm willing to do when I was CP&L employee.
3 MR. ANG: You don't have any other examples 4 where you were encouraged to look away. t 5 MR. VO: Yes I called Mr. I have one DR talking 6 about a bolt and nut.
7 MR. ANG: Non-Q being used for Q material.
8 MR. ANG: On pipe supports.
9 MR. VO: The pipe support on anything, on flange, 10 and I call Dr. E11eman. -
11 MR. GUILD: He's the vice-president for nuclear 12 safety in the company. ,
13 MR. VO: Three weeks later he called me back.
14 He say that is safe and after investigation he said it's 15 safe, that's all.
16 MR. ANG: Did you disagree with that?
17 MR. VO: I didn't agree with him.
18 MR. ANG: You disagreed with him.
19 MR. VO: Yes, but when he's the vice-president i
20 he says safe and he's in tafety.
21 MR. ANG: You wouldn't have a copy of that DR, 4
22 would you?
44
s 99 20852 0 KSW l . MR. VO I have it at home.
2 MR. ANG: Can we get the number off of it?
3 MR. ROBINSON: You can find the number?
MR. ANG: Just give us the number. That's all 4
5 we need. Any other examples?
6 MR. VO: No, sir.
7 MR. ANG: On page 15 you say I have very serious 8 . concerns regarding the breakdown of quality assurance at the Shearon Harris Nuclear Power Plant. You've given us 9
10 this example. Are there any others?
11 MR. VO: Like some, you know, if you need I will 12 supply to you one, you know, DDR, 36 page.
13 MR. ANG: You say that's a breakdown of the 14 quality assurance?
15 MR. VO: Some problem should be issue DDR 16 nonconformance like I just give to you like one memorandum.
17 MR. ANG: Can you give me the number of that DDR?
18 MR. VO: You got the 36-page DDR?
l9 MR. ANC: I don't need a copy, I just need the 20 number.
21 MR. VO: So many problems if you look on the 22 speed letter they took the deficiencies by speed letter.
100 20852.0 KSW l
MR. ANG: This DDR should have been written up as 2 an NCR?
3 MR. VO: Should be done officially, but they 4 don't do that.
5 MR. ANG: The 36-page DDR, what's the problem 6 with that?
7 MR. VO: They go over about a hundred problems they don't want to issue some DDRs. DDRs like a book you 8
9 know, like a procedure.
10 MR. ROBINSON: Let's just stop for a minute. '
11 MR. GUILD: You didn't find the 36-page DDR, did 12 you?
13 MR. VO: I didn't bring with me. I know exactly 14 I did not.
15 MR. ANG: Can you tell me the number later on?
16 MR. VO: Yes, I will.
17 MRs VO: Like you see right here, like a design, 18 due to the main steam and feed water, in the turbine 19 building, when they are lack of documentation and 20 inspection, and Ebasco to declassification or 21 reclassification to be from nonseismic to seismic. Maybe 22 I make a mistake because of my language, refer to Ebasco
\D
101 20852.0 KSW l
letter, to my understanding Ebasco didn't say I agree with 2 you to turn to nonseismic and CP&L on seismis say refer to 3 a letter such such such and main steam and feed water in 4 turbine building,.
5 MR. GUILD: They used a field change report for 6 that?
7 MR. VO: No more performance, what type of 8 material should be applied --
9 MR. ANG: Is this a copy we can have?
10 MR. GUILD: That's my only copy. '
11 MR. VO: I will give you that.
12 MR. GUILD: You take that one. Chan can send me 13 another one. That would be fine.
14 MR. ANG: Okay. ,
N 15 FCRH-ll45 revision 1.
16 MR. GUILD: Is that an example of a generic NCR, 17 Chan?
18 MR. VO: Yes. I have one more generic DDR and 19 if you look at the generic DDR about weld deficiency, DDR 20 1030.
21 MR. ROBINSON: 1030 is a generic DDR on weld 22 deficiency, and -- okay.
t0!
102 20852.0 KSW l MR. ANG: What?
2 MR. VO: The open DDR and when you got a weld 3 deficiency just input to that DDR.
4 MR. ANG: That's another example where they 5 cover many items with one DDR.
6 MR. VO: The reason I know that is when Alec 7 Fuller have trouble with that DDR he assigned about three 8 engineers to try to close that DDR. About one and one 9 half months I have that documentation. They couldn't do 10 it; they couldn't close it and he turned to me a specially :
11 an assignment to me with one helper is Mr. KIrby and asked i 12 me to close about one week and I did. And I keep, you 13 know, documents. I just finished to try to -- I'm not 14 close DDR but I try to issue some hanger modification or 15 some permanent way to cover the problem.
16 MR. ANG: This was correct work? Nobody told 17 you to do anything wrong?
18 MR. VO: No, sir. I keep in my mind anything I 19 have to sign carefully I review to interviewers what 20 particularly for a weld I review for an STM for particular 21 material.
22 MR. ANG: Are you saying we need to look at this
. i l
101
4
~103 20852.0 KSW l DDR or.tvot?
i 2 MR. VO: I'm just talking about brought up the f
'- 3 generic DDR they have so many.
MR. GUILD: I think one point you said that they L4 j 5 routinely use generic NCRs, DDRs that should have been 6 addressed in'a more controlled fashion they would tell you 7 you had to remember a long list of generic field reports
! 8 to apply work procedure.
9 MR. VO: If you look under work procedure, 110, 10 revision 8, you will see about 12,000 --- I'm sorry, 1200 t t 11 generic FCR and about almost a thousand RCI, generic RCI,
(
12 that that's clarificati,on requests to be applied to the 13 hanger installation program.
h i 16 MR. ANG: Any'other examples of what you feel is 17 a breakdown.of the quality assurance program at Shearon
.! 18 Harris?
- 19 MR. VO
- That's what the quality I'm talking l 20 quality is like some really care about deficiency and they go into you know to write them up the power plant some 21 22 inspectors are willing to do that they_might be stopped
{
4 103
104 20852 0 KSW 1 like Vincent after he do that I don't know where he go he He just started 2 quit or some kind of pressure and he go.
3 about two months he got out from U.S. Navy and after two 4 months he go.
5 MR. ROBINSON: Who's this?
6 MR. VO: Vincent.
7 MR. ANG: Is he mentioned in here?
8 MR. VO: No, sir.
9 MR. GUILD: He's the inspector that worked with 10 you on the 210227 -
11 MR. VO: Yes.
12 MR. ANG: He's a QA inspector?
13 MR. VO: Yes.
14 MR. ANG: I thought Buck Williams was the QA.
15 MR. VO: Yeah I think he's still there.
16 MR. ANG: I thoughts he was the QA surveillance 17 that worked with you on the 21022. Did Vincent also work l 18 on that?
19 MR. VO: Yes, Vincent worked under his supervise.
20 MR. ANG: He worked under Buck Williams.
21 MR. GUILD: They researched the PO together.
22 One clarification might be helpful. You mentioned that t
i 105 l 20852 0 KSW l you were instructed that ycu could not originate a DDR or 2 NCR. Would you explain that?
I 3 MR. VO: I beg your pardon.
4 MR. GUILD: You mentioned earlier that you were 5 not allowed to issue a DDR or NCR?
6 MR. VO: No my job classification, my job 7 classification do not allow me to do that.
8 MR. GUILD: Why do you believe that?
9 MR. VO : The job classification show that.
10 MR. GUILD: Were you ever told that you couldn't '
11 do that?
12 MR. VO: I could if I just report the problem 13 you know by speed letter.
l 14 MR. GUILD: To your management.
15 MR. VO: Yes.
16 MR. ANG: In relation to that were you given any 17 QA training?
18 MR. VO: No I don't have QA training.
20 MR. VO: Yes, but I do have training on the QA 21 manual, sir. I'm sorry I do have.
22 MR. ANG: On the manual. Do you remember to!
106 20852.0 KSW 1 anything in there that says anybody that finds a 2 discrepancy is obligated to report it?
MR. VO: Yes, I do. But in my field engineer 3
4 job, you know, classification, they don't say so.
5 MR. GUILD: When you found a deficiency such as 6 with the feed water pump fit up you asked how you were to 7 document it and your boss told you to write it on a speed 8 letter and give it to him?
9 MR. VO: He would route it.
10 MR. ANG: Did your boss tell you or was this .
11 common practice?
12 MR. VO: I come and ask him first. I say do you 13 want me to report this problem to Mr. E.E. Willett because 14 that's internal organization. I don't want QA catch the 15 problem. I want to fix, you know, first. And I ask him 16 what I have to do'about that one. He told us me you know, 17 report to him by speed letter and he will route.
18 . MR. ROBINSON: So you had problems with 19 deficiencies that were going on that you observed and were 20 frustrated that not be at not be go able to properly
. 21 report those deficiencies through your management?
22 MR. VO: Yes.
107 20852.0 KSW l MR. ROBINSON: And yet you had the feeling you J
2 didn't want to tell QA about it?
3 MR. VO: No. I just say at the first time you 4 say the first time when they start doing I want to fix 5 first because they are not performing. yes, but after that 6 I did show to QA inspector but they you know they ignore 7 about that.
8 MR. ROBINSON: You talked to a QA person about 9 that problem?
10 MR. VO: Inspector, I show to them the problem, 11 but I couldn't remember the name.
12 MR. ROBINSON . You don't know?
13 MR. ANG: That was my previous question. I beg 14 your pardon, I haven't asked my last question.
15 MR. ROBINSON: Go ahead. Were there any more on 16 the QA breakdown, any more examples?
17 MR. VO: That's as far as I know. I know so 18 many deficiencies, but I don't know you know I don't have 19 much time to go to the QA just like I take my lunchtime to 20 see Mr. Buck Williams we talk on friendship.
21 MR. ANG: On page five you say there's a great
- 22 deal of pressure on the construction inspection I
to1
108 20052 0 KSW 1 organization which lacks the freedom and independent from 2
cost and scheduling considerations to effectively perform 3 their QA duties of identifying and documenting 4 deficiencies. Do you have any examples of situations 5 where there was pressure on construction inspection?
MR. VO: Yes. Back in 1982 you look on the CI 6
7 organization chart and how many inspector or QA organization chart how many inspectors perform at that 8
9 time and now you look back you know the organization you 10 will see the differential about different names and -
~
4 11 different persons because the QA most inspectors are 12 Daniel employees and, you know, Daniel employees assigned 13 to CP&L under CP&L supervision. If you do something, if 14 they are raises up so much deficiencies and one way or 15 another they will out.
16 MR. ANG: You're saying the fact that the 17 personnel were being changed from 1982 to now is telling 18 you that there is pressure on construction inspection.
19 MR. VO: If you look on that I think 90 percent 20 the former construction inspectors -- I don't know where 21 they go, but right now almost the new people in.
22 MR. ANG: Do you have any specific examples of a i
i toi
4m 109 ,
20852.0 l
KSW 1
construction inspector saying "these guys are telling me 2 not to write this"?
3 MR. VO: They say due to communication. I'm a field engineer, I'm very close to them. We communicate 4
5 every day. They told me that, but I don't have evidence 6 to --
7 MR. ROBINSON: Who told you that?
8 MR. ANG: Can we have some names?
1 9 MR. VO: No, sir.
10 MR. ANG: You don't say anything about QC?
l 11 MR. VO: QA-QC is same organization.
12 MR. ANG: However QC performs inspections on the 13 welds?
14 MR. VO: Yes on the weld, 15 MR. ANG: As far as pipe supports?
16 MR. VO You look on the DDR 1775, if, you know, i
17 the QA surveillance found some weld deficiency, the weld i 18 be go accepted by the QC and if, you know, NRC does not 19 issue the NRC meeting and the CP&L not perform, the 20 surveillance on the hanger program, that means the first 21 two hangers being completely inspection shall be 22 transferred to start up. Right? Are you follow me?
i
110 20852 0 KSW MR. ANG: Not really. I'm trying to understand.
l 2 MR. VO The QC involves the weld inspection, 3 right? We have how, you know, many seismic hangers refer to work procedure 110, revision a, Phase II, completion 4
That means we will, you 5 inspection, complete inspection.
i 6 know, refer to Phase II we will transfer documentation of 7 inspection to the start up group.
8 MR. ANG: Are you saying there was pressure also 9 on QC7
! 10 MR. VO: Yes.
1 11 MR. ANG: On what basis?
12 MR. VO: They sign off, but they are not --
13 deficiency they still sign off.
14 MR. ANG: I guess you're saying because they 15 sign off understanding there's pressure thrre because they 16 are signing off.
17 MR. VO: I don't know seems to me a lot of 18 pressure they put on them, you know.
19 MR. ANG: They.are CP&L employees?
20 MR. VO They are CPEL employees.
21 MR. ANG: Any other examples?
22 MR. VO: No, sir.
(to
1 111 20852.0 KSW 1 MR. ANG: I guess we got a lot of examples here.
If there's anything else we'd be glad to get them or look 2
3 at them or --
MR. GUILD: I think we're all very tired.
4 5 MR. VO: In 1980 when I deem with the material 6 that's why I, you know --
7 MR. ANG: If you've got more, let's get them.
8 MR. ROBINSON: This is your plan --
9 MR. VO: This is back in 1980, because I do that 10 prepare that, you know, to control because I was assigned 3
11 by Tom French to order in and out material you know on 12 site surplus material to like pipe spool marked for ,
13 identification, or some kind modification, O or non-0, and 14 I do prepare the list to control to reflect what PO number, how many material how many in how many out, and --
15 16 MR. ANG: What are you saying the problem with 17 this is? ,
18 MR. VO: No no problem, that's my performance.
MR. ROBINSON: I don't have any further 19 C 20 questions. Do you want to make any --
21 MR. GUILD: We talked during the break of the 22 notion once you look at the transcript and reflect on your
\\\
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i 112 !
20852 0 KSW l notes if you have additional specific questions feed them 2 to us, and I know Chan has a number of other documents and 3 I'll get him to go through those and if there are any in 4 there that reflect concerns of his, make sure he gets 5 those to you. I'll go through my notes to see if there 6 are places where clarification might be helpful but I 7 think we've covered what he's capable of covering or I'm 8 capable of thinking about this afternoon.
9 MR. ROBINSON: If you have anything else you 10 want to say now --
l 11 MR. VO: No, sir.
12 MR. ROBINSONs, This is not to say this is the 13 last time we'll be talking, because once I sit down and 14 review this I'll have some questions.
MR. VO: I am.next week seeking a job. Again, I 15 16 don't know where I'm going.
17 MR. GUILD: I might have said this to you before, 18 but let these gentlemen know where you're going.
19 MR. VO I will do that.
20 (Discussion off the record.)
MR. GUILD: If you just mention brtefly to these
~
21 22 gentlemen -- you expressed to me some concerns about
\D
~ _ . - -- _ _
113 20852.0 KSW coming here today and fear for your safety. If you would l
just mention that to them so they would have that in mind.
2 3 MR. VO Before I went up to Charlotte to talk 4 to my former supervisor because I would like to explain to 5 him, you know, I'm, you know, the way I did, I really, you 6 know, sorry about that and he said, you know, you do it 7 the right way, but because he even left the company he 8 still told me, you know, Chan, wherever you go let me know 9 where you are. And I come up because I don't want to lose 10 the friendship, you know, between him and me, and I come 11 up to explain the situation, and he said you do the right 12 way even me we do the same way, but Chan you be carefully 13 with the CP&L. I don't know what he mean and beside that 14 any day I have 10 or 12 different phone calls when I pick 15 up the phone, you know,,and they wait a little while say-16 " hello hello" and hang up and about then about you know 10 17 or 12 phone calls a day I don't know what happens.
18 MR. ROBINSON: You might want to get your phono 19 number changed.
20 MR. VO: It's not my phone number, sir. It's 21 not in my name, sir.
22 MR. VO That's the phone number you can be
\\h
l 114 20852 0 KSW .
I reached at?
2 MR. VO: Yes.
MR. GUILD: It's not a listed phone number,
) 3 so 4 although I think it was listed on the DOL complaints,
.f 5 the company has had access to that number and his concern J
I 6 is that people at the site have been making those calls to 7 him so --
l 8 MR. ROBINSON: Thank you very much.
t 9 (Whereupon, at 5:10 p.m., the interview was d
10 concluded.)
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