ML072890209
| ML072890209 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Indian Point  |
| Issue date: | 09/19/2007 |
| From: | NRC/NRR/ADRO/DLR/REBB |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NRC-1775 | |
| Download: ML072890209 (123) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Indian Point License Renewal Public Meeting: Evening Session Docket Number:
50-247 50-286 Location:
Courtlandt Manor, New York Date:
Wednesday, September 19, 2007 Work Order No.:
NRC-1775 Pages 1-126
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
+ + + + +
3 MEETING TO DISCUSS THE ENVIRONMENTAL 4
SCOPING PROCESS FOR INDIAN POINT NUCLEAR 5
GENERATING UNIT NOS. 2 AND 3, 6
LICENSE RENEWAL APPLICATIONS 7
+ + + + +
8 WEDNESDAY, 9
SEPTEMBER 19, 2007 10
+ + + + +
11 12 The meeting came to order at 7:00 p.m. in 13 The Colonial Terrace, 119 Oregon Road, Cortlandt 14
- Manor, New
- York, Lance
- Rakovan, Facilitator, 15 presiding.
16 17 PRESENT:
18 LANCE RAKOVAN, NRC 19 RICH BARKLEY, NRC 20 RANI FRANOVICH, NRC 21 BO PHAM, NRC 22 23 24 25 26
2 TABLE OF CONTENTS 1
PAGE 2
I.
Welcome and Purpose of Meeting 3
3 II.
Overview of License Renewal and 4
Environmental Review Process 7
5 III.
Public Comments 24 6
IV.
Closing Comments 125 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26
3 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1
(7:05 p.m.)
2 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: If everyone would be 3
seated, we'd like to get things started.
4 Good evening. My name is Lance Rakovan.
5 I am a Communications Assistant at the Nuclear 6
Regulatory Commission, or NRC. It's my privilege to 7
facilitate tonight's meeting. The purpose of the 8
meeting tonight is to receive your comments as to what 9
environmental issues the NRC should consider during 10 the review of Indian Point's license renewal 11 application.
12 Before we get things started, I wanted to 13 take a few moments to go through what to expect 14 tonight, lay down a couple ground rules, and just kind 15 of get things started in general.
16 First of all, the agenda for tonight's 17 evening is we're going to have a quick presentation.
18 Well, I hadn't gotten to the point that I was going to 19 ask you to turn your cell phones off, but --
20 (Laughter.)
21
-- I might as well use that opportunity.
22 If everyone could please silence your cell phones, put 23 them on vibrate or turn them off, that will help 24 moments like that from occurring through the rest of 25 the meeting. Thank you.
26
4 Tonight's agenda -- as I was saying, we're 1
going to have a brief presentation just to kind of 2
give you some background on the topic tonight, and 3
then essentially we're going to turn the meeting over 4
to you. We're hoping to get your comments 5
specifically in terms of scoping or the environmental 6
issues that we should take into account for license 7
renewal.
8 We are transcribing tonight's meeting, so 9
we ask that if you are going to make a comment that 10 you come and use a microphone, specifically the one in 11 the center of the room. If you are going to make a 12 comment, if you could please identify yourself and any 13 group that you're with the first time that you speak.
14 We have got a number of people who have signed up 15 using the yellow cards that we had on the back sign-up 16 table.
17 The gentleman who is kind enough to help 18 me tonight, Rich Barkley, who is from our Region I 19 office, is going to do his best to put those cards in 20 order and get everybody up here and get them a chance 21 to speak. If you haven't signed up to speak yet and 22 you'd still like to, flag me down and I can give you 23 one of the cards, and we can get you into the shuffle.
24 I'm told that we have to pretty much end 25 by 10:00 tonight, so I'm going to ask everyone who is 26
5 speaking to keep your comments brief, concise, and to 1
the point -- thank you, sir. I'll take that once --
2 and please respect everyone's viewpoints.
3 Apparently, there was an incident during 4
our afternoon meeting today. I did not witness it, 5
but apparently someone was quite offended in the 6
behavior that they received. It happened outside, not 7
during the meeting itself, so I'm going to ask you all 8
to help me out and realize that there are other people 9
here who probably don't share your opinion on things, 10 and to please respect their opinions and act 11 respectably to them.
12 When you have the microphone and it's your 13 commenting time, certainly say what you will, but when 14 someone else is up there, let them speak, let them 15 have their say.
16 Again, please be patient. We're going to 17 try to get to everyone. When it gets to about 9:30 or 18 so, I'm going to try to give a warning, and hopefully 19 we'll be able to get everybody in. But I can't make 20 any guarantees.
21 Remember, this is not the only way that 22 you can get your comments in. If you have it written, 23 we can take your comments right now and read it into 24 the transcript for the meeting. The main speaker, Bo, 25 will be going over the other ways that you can get 26
6 your comments in for the environmental scoping. But, 1
again, tonight speaking is not the only way that you 2
can get your comments in on this process.
3 If you did speak this afternoon, we're 4
going to try to let people who did not have a chance 5
to speak go first. Again, I'm going to ask that 6
everybody try to keep your comments concise, so we can 7
get through everybody. But we're going to try to let 8
the new people speak first tonight. So if you were 9
here this afternoon, we ask for your understanding on 10 that.
11 I'm going to ask, logistically, if we can 12 keep the exits open and free of people. That way 13 people can walk back and forth. And also, there tends 14 to be a lot of noise in the room outside, so if we 15 could try to keep the doors closed when people aren't 16 coming and going, that will help everyone hear what 17 the speaker is saying.
18 I already said the thing about the cell 19 phones, so the only other thing that I'd like to say 20 is there were a stack of meeting feedback forms on the 21 table outside. If you could take a moment to fill 22 those out, and either hand them to an NRC employee or 23 drop them in the mail, they are free, and they will 24 get to us. And those can give us some ideas as to 25 what you liked about the meeting, what you didn't 26
7 like, what we can hopefully fix in the future, 1
etcetera.
2 So having said that, I will turn things 3
over to our speaker, Bo, who has a quick presentation, 4
and then we're going to get to the reason that we're 5
all here -- to listen to your comments on 6
environmental scoping.
7 MR. PHAM: Thank you, Lance.
8 Good evening, everyone. My name is Bo 9
Pham. I am a Senior Project Manager within the 10 Division of License Renewal at the NRC. I'm also the 11 Lead Project Manager for conducting the review 12 associated with the Indian Point License Renewal 13 Application.
14 Thank you all for taking the time to come 15 to this meeting. I hope the information we provide 16 will help you understand the process we're going 17 through and the role you can play in helping us make 18 sure that our environmental review considers the 19 relevant information.
20 In June, we held a meeting here at The 21 Colonial Terrace to provide an overview of the license 22 renewal review process, which includes both a safety 23 review and an environmental review. Tonight we will 24 describe in more detail the environmental review 25 process associated with license renewal review.
26
8 But the most important part of tonight's 1
meeting is to receive the comments you may have on the 2
scope of the environmental review. We also will give 3
you some information about how you can submit comments 4
outside of this meeting, as Lance had mentioned.
5 At the conclusion of this presentation, we 6
will be taking comments on the scope of the 7
environmental review. And as Lance has already 8
indicated, this meeting is being transcribed, and all 9
comments recorded from this meeting will be reviewed 10 and considered.
11 Next slide, please.
12 Before I get into the details of the 13 environmental review process, I'd like to take a few 14 minutes to recap some of the information that was 15 presented here in June. The NRC, as a federal agency, 16 established, by the Energy Reorganization Act of 1974 17
-- that regulates the civilian use of nuclear 18 material. The Atomic Energy Act authorizes the NRC to 19 grant a 40-year operating license for nuclear power 20 reactors.
21 This 40-year term was based primarily on 22 economic considerations and antitrust factors, not on 23 safety or technical limitations. The Atomic Energy 24 Act also allows for the license renewal.
25 The National Environmental Policy Act of 26
9 1969, otherwise known as NEPA, establishes a national 1
policy for considering the impact of federal 2
decisionmaking on the human environment. As a matter 3
of policy, the Commission determined that reactor 4
license renewal constitutes a major federal action for 5
which an environmental impact statement is warranted.
6 The NRC's regulations governing nuclear 7
safety, security, and environmental protection are 8
contained in Title 10 of the Code of Federal 9
Regulations, which is commonly referred to as 10 CFR. 10 In exercising its authority, the NRC's mission is 11 threefold -- to ensure adequate protection of public 12 health and safety, to promote common defense and 13 security, and to protect the environment.
14 The NRC accomplishes its mission through 15 a combination of regulatory programs and processes, 16 such as establishing rules and regulations, conducting 17 inspections, issuing enforcement actions, assessing 18 licensee performance, and evaluating operating 19 experience from nuclear plants across the country and 20 internationally.
21 The NRC has resident inspectors at all 22 operating nuclear powerplants. These inspectors are 23 considered the eyes and ears of the NRC. They carry 24 out our safety mission on a daily basis and are on the 25 front lines of ensuring acceptable safety performance 26
10 and compliance with regulatory requirements.
1 Next slide, please.
2 Now, turning to license renewal, the 3
Indian Point reactor units were licensed to operate in 4
1973 and '75. For Units 2 and 3, the current 5
operating licenses expire in 2013 and 2015, 6
respectively. The NRC received Entergy's applications 7
for license renewal of both units on April 30th of 8
this year.
9 As part of NRC's review of the Indian 10 Point license renewal application, we will perform an 11 environmental review to assess the impacts on the 12 environment of an additional 20 years of operation.
13 And I'll explain that process in a few minutes. I'll 14 also share with you the schedule for the environmental 15 review.
16 Next slide, please.
17 License renewal involves two parallel 18 reviews -- a safety review and the environmental 19 review. These two reviews evaluate two separate 20 aspects of the license renewal application. The 21 safety review focuses on the aging of components and 22 structures that the NRC deems important to plant 23 safety.
24 The staff's main objective in this review 25 is to determine that the effects of aging will be 26
11 adequately managed by the applicant. The results of 1
the safety review are documented in a safety 2
evaluation report, or otherwise known as an SER.
3 For the environmental review, the staff 4
considers, evaluates, and discloses the environmental 5
impacts of continued operation for an additional 20 6
years. The staff also evaluates the environmental 7
impacts of alternatives to license renewal. The 8
objective of the review is to determine if the 9
environmental impacts of license renewal are so great 10 that the license renewal would not be a reasonable 11 option. The staff prepares an environmental impact 12 statement, or known as EIS, to document this 13 environmental review.
14 Next slide.
15 This diagram illustrates the safety and 16 environmental review processes represented at the top 17 and bottom of the slide. It also features two other 18 considerations of the Commission's decision on whether 19 or not to renew an operating license. The independent 20 review is performed by the Advisory Committee on 21 Reactor Safeguards, or ACRS.
22 Statutorily mandated by the Atomic Energy 23 Act of 1954, the ACRS is a group of scientists and 24 nuclear experts who serve as a consulting body to the 25 Commission. The ACRS performs an independent review 26
12 of the license renewal application, as well as a staff 1
safety evaluation. They then report their findings 2
and recommendations directly to the Commission.
3 Hearings may also be conducted concurrent 4
with the staff's review. Interested stakeholders may 5
submit concerns or contentions and request a hearing.
6 If a hearing is granted, the Commission considers the 7
outcome of the hearing process in its decision of 8
whether or not to issue a renewed operating license.
9 Now I'm going to describe the 10 environmental review process in a little bit more 11 detail. Next slide.
12 The National Environmental Policy Act of 13 1969 requires that federal agencies follow a 14 systematic approach in evaluating potential 15 environmental impacts associated with certain actions.
16 We are required to consider the impacts of the 17 proposed action and also any mitigation of those 18 impacts that we consider to be significant.
19 We're also required to consider 20 alternatives to the proposed action -- in this case, 21 license renewal and that includes energy 22 alternatives to proposed
- action, mitigating 23 alternatives, and the no-action alternative, which 24 would examine the environmental impacts associated 25 with not issuing a renewed license.
26
13 The NRC has determined that an 1
environmental impact statement will be prepared for 2
the proposed license renewal of nuclear powerplants.
3 In preparing an EIS, the NRC conducts a scoping 4
process. The purpose of this scoping process is to 5
identify the significant issues to be analyzed in 6
depth.
7 We are now gathering information for an 8
environmental impact statement and are here to collect 9
public comments on the scope of the review. That is, 10 what environmental impacts should the staff consider 11 for the proposed license renewal of Indian Point?
12 The staff has developed a generic 13 environmental impact statement that addresses a number 14 of issues common to all nuclear powerplants. The 15 staff is supplementing that generic EIS with a site-16 specific impact statement, which will address issues 17 that are specific to Indian Point site. The staff 18 also reexamines the conclusions reached in the generic 19 EIS to determine if there are any new and significant 20 information that would change those conclusions.
21 Next slide.
22 For the environmental review, we have 23 established a team of specialists from the NRC staff 24 and contractors who are experts in various fields and 25 disciplines. This slide gives you an idea of the 26
14 various areas that we look at during the environmental 1
review. Some of the areas include terrestrial and 2
aquatic ecology, environmental justice, hydrology, and 3
radiation protection.
4 Next slide.
5 The scoping period started on August 10th 6
when the Notice of Intent to prepare an EIS and 7
conduct scoping was published. The NRC will be 8
accepting comments on the scope of the environmental 9
review until October 12th. In general, we are looking 10 for sources of information about the environmental 11 impact of continued operation at Indian Point that we 12 should consider as we prepare our environmental impact 13 statement.
14 You can assist us in that process by 15 telling us, for example, what aspects of your local 16 community we should focus on, what local 17 environmental, social, and economic aspects the NRC 18 should examine during our environmental review, and 19 what reasonable alternatives are most appropriate for 20 this area.
21 These are just some examples of the input 22 we are looking for, and they represent the kind of 23 information we are seeking through environmental 24 scoping process. Your comments tonight should be 25 helpful in providing insights of this nature.
26
15 Next slide.
1 This slide illustrates the various 2
considerations that are factored into a decision to 3
issue a renewed operating license. How do we use your 4
input? Public comments are an important part of the 5
environmental review process. We consider all of the 6
comments that we receive from the public during the 7
scoping process, as well as comments received on the 8
draft environmental impact statement that's due to be 9
published by next summer.
10 Next slide, please.
11 Now, in addition to providing comments at 12 this meeting, there are other ways that you can submit 13 comments for an environmental review process. You can 14 provide written comments to the Chief of our Rules and 15 Directive Branch, whose address is above in the slide.
16 You can also make the comments in person or deliver in 17 person if you happen to be in the Rockville, Maryland, 18 area.
19 We have also established a specific e-mail 20 address at the NRC for the purpose of receiving your 21 comments on the development of our draft environmental 22 impact statement, and what you think the scope of our 23 review should be. That e-mail address is 24 indianpointeis@nrc.gov. All your comments will be 25 considered -- reviewed and considered. And as Lance 26
16 indicated, you can also deliver written comments to us 1
tonight. We will add it in as part of the transcript.
2 Next slide, please.
3 This slide shows important milestone dates 4
for the environmental review process. The Notice of 5
Opportunity for Hearing was published on August 1st, 6
followed by the Notice of Intent to prepare an EIS and 7
conduct scoping. The opportunity to submit contention 8
for a hearing closes on November 30th. Previously, it 9
was October 1st. But in response to congressional 10
- requests, the Commission has extended it to 11 November 30th.
12 And if you have comments you'd like to 13 submit outside of today's meeting, you have until 14 October 12th, as I indicated earlier, and as 15 highlighted on the slide, to submit those comments.
16 Next slide.
17 This slide identifies the primary points 18 of contact within the NRC for environmental issues.
19 It also identifies where documents related to our 20 review may be found in the local area. The Hendrick 21 Hudson Free Library, the Field Library, and the White 22 Plains Public Library have all agreed to make the 23 license renewal application available for public 24 review.
25 When it's published for comment, the draft 26
17 environmental impact statement will also be available 1
at each library. These documents will also be on the 2
NRC's website at the website address shown at the 3
bottom of the page.
4 In addition, as you came in, you were 5
asked to fill out a registration card at our reception 6
table. If you've included your address on that card, 7
we will mail a copy of the draft and final 8
environmental impact statement to you.
9 This concludes my presentation, and I will 10 turn it over -- back to Lance. But I did want to make 11 one note. Joe, could you go back -- two slides back 12 with the milestone dates? The dates that's indicated 13 on the handout you may have was a previous version, 14 and it has been changed to November 30th. On your 15 handout that you have, it was actually October 1st.
16 Thank you, Lance.
17 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thanks, Bo.
18 Before we go into the comments, I want to 19 apologize for the heat. We're looking to get some air 20 conditioning or something, or more of it, turned on, 21 so that we can cool things down in here. For those of 22 you who are standing in the back, if you wish to do 23 so, that's great. But there are a lot of seats still 24 open towards the front. So if you want to grab a seat 25 before we start with the commenting, now would be a 26
18 good time to do it.
1 With that, we'll go to our first speaker, 2
who is Chris Hogan from New York State, Department of 3
Environmental Conservation, and after Chris has a 4
chance to talk Rich will start going through the 5
yellow cards.
6 Mr. Hogan?
7 MR. HOGAN: Thanks, Lance.
8 Good evening. As Lance indicated, my name 9
is Chris Hogan, and I am the Project Manager for the 10 DEC for the relicensing of Indian Point Units 2 and 3.
11 The purpose of my statement this evening is to clarify 12 the Department's role in relicensing and other matters 13 related to the facility.
14 With regard to scoping, Department staff 15 are currently reviewing Entergy's environmental 16 report, as well as historical information, and will be 17 submitting written comments on the scope of the draft 18 EIS before the close of the comment period on 19 October 12th.
20 In addition to our participation in 21 scoping, the Department has been designated by 22 Governor Spitzer to take the lead for state executive 23 agencies for the relicensing of Indian Point. Acting 24 in this role, the Department intends to file a request 25 for a hearing and a petition for leave to intervene in 26
19 the relicensing proceeding. And at this time, the 1
Department would like to thank NRC for extending the 2
time period to submit those documents.
3 In their comments within scoping, 4
Department staff will focus on the potential natural 5
resource and aquatic impacts from the facility during 6
an additional license term of 20 years. The 7
Department's primary concern is the potential impacts 8
of the once-through cooling system at the facility.
9 The two units combined currently withdraw 10 approximately 2.5 billion gallons of water per day 11 from the Hudson River. This results in the 12 impingement of fish on the intake screens and the 13 entrainment of small fish, fish larvae, and fish eggs 14 within the cooling system of the plant.
15 In addition, the once-through cooling 16 system also results in a discharge of heated water, 17 because the water is used to absorb waste heat from 18 the operation of the generation equipment. The 19 discharge of heated wastewater for both units is 20 through a single discharge canal.
21 The Department is concerned with the 22 potential thermal impacts from the discharge on the 23 aquatic resources of the river. This information is 24 important, because before the NRC can relicense Indian 25 Point, the Clean Water Act requires that New York 26
20 State must certify that state water quality standards 1
will be met during the new license term. This 2
approval is referred to as a water quality 3
certification.
4 Based on the schedule established by the 5
NRC, the Department anticipates receiving Entergy's 6
application for water quality certification in 7
approximately May 2008. Pursuant to the New York 8
State uniform procedures regulations, the water 9
quality certificate application will be subject to 10 public review and comment. The Department has one 11 year to issue, deny, or waive the certificate from the 12 date of receipt. The Department looks forward to full 13 participation by the public in that process.
14 In addition to the Department's role in 15 the NRC relicensing process, there are two other 16 matters related to the facility in which the 17 Department has primary responsibility. Under the RCRA 18 authority -- authority delegated to the Department by 19 the EPA -- DEC regulates hazards waste management and 20 remedial efforts at Indian Point, including any 21 potential groundwater contamination.
22 In
- addition, as the agency that 23 administers the environmental side of the NRC 24 agreement state program, DEC has taken the lead for 25 the state in the ongoing radiological groundwater 26
21 investigation. Staff has been actively involved 1
throughout this process and soon will be reviewing the 2
completed site hydrology report and any remediation 3
plans.
4 The Department also has jurisdiction over 5
the wastewater discharge from the facility through the 6
State Pollutant Discharge Elimination System, or 7
SPDES, Program. Through the SPDES Program, the 8
Department ensures that all discharge wastewaster 9
meets state water quality standards. In addition, the 10 SPDES Program also allows the Department to regulate 11 the withdrawal of water for cooling purposes.
12 The Department issued a draft SPDES permit 13 in November 2003 and commenced the administrative 14 process to modify the permit. The draft permit is 15 currently the subject of an adjudicatory hearing, and 16 the Department is awaiting a Commissioner's ruling on 17 the appeals of the issues that should be adjudicated.
18 The draft permit currently requires 19 Entergy to install cooling towers or equivalent 20 technology if the facility is relicensed by the NRC.
21 That concludes my statement. If you have 22 any questions with regard to the Department's 23 involvement in the groundwater investigation, and the 24 relicensing and the SPDES process, we have a table out 25 front with two fax sheets that you can pick up. And 26
22 we'll be available to answer any questions.
1 Thank you.
2 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you, Mr.
3 Hogan.
4 As one of the NRC's co-regulators, we 5
wanted to make sure that he had an opportunity to just 6
kind of outline some of their concerns and some of 7
their perspective on the situation.
8 So with that, I guess I'll turn things 9
over to Rich to introduce our first three speakers.
10 We're going to try to go in blocks of three, just to 11 give you a heads up as to, you know, that you'll be 12 coming up or when you'll be coming up. Once you get 13 to the microphone, if you could introduce yourself and 14 let us know if there's any group that you're with, 15 just so we make sure that we know who's talking on the 16 transcript.
17 Again, I'm going to ask you to stick to 18 about five minutes as the maximum amount of time, as 19 we do have a number of people who are signed up. I 20 believe Rich has a few techniques that he'll be using 21 if you start going over the five-minute mark, and 22 hopefully it won't get to that point, though.
23 So, Rich, why don't you go ahead and tell 24 us who is going to be coming up first.
25 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. And at this point, I 26
23 have 27 people signed up. If there are any other 1
people who want to sign up, please let me know.
2 According to the list here, I have three elected 3
officials who have expressed an interest in speaking.
4 If there are any other elected officials, please let 5
me know. And I'd like to lead off with John Testa, 6
the Mayor of Peekskill, and then we'll move to Frank 7
Giancamilli, who is with Congressman John Hall's 8
office, and then, finally, Dan O'Neill, the Mayor of 9
the Village of the Buchanan.
10 So, John? Is John here?
11 (No response.)
12 That makes it easy. Okay. I'll say 13 John's name until later. Maybe --
14 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: We're not batting 15 very well already.
16 (Laughter.)
17 MR. BARKLEY: All right. Frank, do you 18 want to come up?
19 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: And I think all of 20 you heard at one point the air conditioning kick in, 21 so hopefully that will help with the heat in here.
22 MR. GIANCAMILLI: Thank you. My name is 23 Frank Giancamilli. I'm from the office of Congressman 24 John Hall. The Congressman cannot be here tonight, so 25 I will be reading a statement on his behalf.
26
24 I'd first like to thank the NRC for 1
extending the deadline for submittal and for having 2
this meeting tonight. As I'm sure the Commission can 3
see from today's turnout, and the passion shown by 4
Indian Point's neighbors, the environmental impact of 5
Indian Point is critically important to the Hudson 6
Valley and must figure prominently in the NRC's 7
consideration of Entergy's license renewal 8
application.
9 The environmental impact of Indian Point 10 on public health, local resources, and water quality 11 continues to be one of the most serious issues facing 12 our region. Indian Point already exacts a heavy toll 13 on our local environment in ways I will elaborate on 14 in a moment, and presents a constant threat to the 15 well being of its host communities.
16 When Entergy filed its license renewal 17 application on April 30th of this year, it raised the 18 possibility that IP 2 and IP 3 could continue to 19 operate for another 20 years. If that is to be the 20 case, then the relicensing process discussed here 21 today must result in fundamental changes in the way 22 the plant is operated and the environmental damage 23 created by the plant is mitigated.
24 It is for that reason that I vehemently 25 believe that the NRC must keep one fundamental fact in 26
25 mind throughout this process. The relicensing of 1
Indian Point cannot be conducted in an environmental 2
vacuum. This process cannot be subjected to a 3
regulatory runaround that examines some systems and 4
excludes others.
5 If there is an incident involving an 6
operating system, or a spent fuel pool, or another 7
aspect of the plant, that incident will have an 8
environmental impact on surrounding communities, 9
regardless of whether or not the regulatory framework 10 required them to be studied.
11 The environmental scope of the NRC's 12 review must reflect that reality by encompassing the 13 entirety of operations at Indian Point. With that 14 said, I believe there are several vital issues that 15 must be considered by the NRC as it goes about the 16 work of creating its draft environmental impact 17 statement, or DEIS.
18 The first and perhaps most disturbing of 19 these issues is the continued existence of 20 uncontrolled leaks of radioactive material from Indian 21 Point spent fuel pools. For almost two years, Indian 22 Point has been leaking tritium and the cancer-causing 23 strontium-90 into the soil and water surrounding the 24 plant. Alarmingly, it is possible that some of this 25 material may even be making its way into the Hudson 26
26 River.
1 Just two weeks ago, another pinhole-sized 2
leak was discovered in the fuel transfer canal. The 3
fact that these leaks have continued to disperse 4
radioactive material for years, with no sure knowledge 5
of their source or concrete plan to stop them, should 6
make it clear that they constitute a significant 7
environmental threat that must be addressed in this 8
relicensing process.
9 Specifically, I believe that the spent 10 fuel pools should be considered within the scope of 11 the aging management review, that radiological 12 monitoring in the Hudson should be expanded to more 13 forms of aquatic life, and that a condition of 14 relicensing should be a requirement that Entergy find 15 and stop these leaks.
16 Indian Point's operations also place a 17 great strain on the Hudson through the introduction of 18 thermal pollution that has an undeniably negative 19 impact on the river's ecosystem. As a result of its 20 cooling process, Indian Point consumes billions of 21 gallons of water a day and undermines the survival of 22 several critical species of fish and wildlife.
23 Clearly, this is a direct environmental impact of the 24 plant's continued operation and warrants consideration 25 in the DEIS.
26
27 Indian Point's location in New York City 1
metro area, and at the heart of the watershed that 2
serves New York City and Westchester, makes safety and 3
security an issue worthy of environmental 4
consideration as well. An incident at the plant could 5
have catastrophic impacts on the local environmental 6
and human wealth by rendering much of the region 7
uninhabitable in a worst-case scenario.
8 The 2003 Witt Report declared that current 9
radiological response plans are not adequate to 10 protect the public, and the plan has been met with 11 strenuous local government oppositions. Given the 12 stakes, it is necessary and appropriate for the NRC to 13 consider the effectiveness of the evacuation plans for 14 Indian Point in the context of environmental 15 conditions in human health.
16 Since this is a process with potentially 17 long-term repercussions, the DEIS must also be 18 prepared to look into the future. Indian Point spent 19 fuel pools are rapidly reaching their maximum 20 capacity. And if the plant is allowed to operate 21 decades into the future, the impacts of continued 22 waste storage, the shift from fuel pools to dry cask 23 storage, and the ability of Indian Point to 24 accommodate projected volumes of nuclear waste must be 25 considered in the DEIS.
26
28 If Indian Point is to receive a license 1
renewal for another 20 years of operation, the 2
communities of the Hudson Valley deserve to know that 3
the NRC relicensing process has been thorough, open, 4
and has guaranteed that Indian Point will operate in 5
a more environmentally responsible manner in its next 6
20 years than it has in its first 30. To do that, the 7
process must encompass the full environmental impact 8
of Indian Point on its host communities.
9 Indian Point's reactors do not operate in 10 a vacuum, and neither should the relicensing process 11 that will determine their future.
12 Thank you.
13 (Applause.)
14 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: If people would 15 rather use the front mic instead of that one, please 16 feel free.
17 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Dan, your choice on 18 mics.
19 MR. O'NEILL: This one is fine. Thank 20 you. I'll try to speak loud into the microphone. My 21 name is Dan O'Neill. I am the Mayor of the Village of 22 Buchanan where the Indian Point nuclear powerplants 23 are located. I want to thank the NRC for giving 24 myself and other members of the public to comment on 25 the environmental impact of Indian Point.
26
29 It is absolutely necessary that the NRC 1
relicensing procedure take into account the 2
environmental impacts that Indian Point does have on 3
not only Buchanan but the entire Hudson Valley, and, 4
indeed, the New York City metropolitan area. Let's 5
face it, any way that electricity is made there are 6
going to be serious adverse environmental impacts.
7 And I'm not going to shy away from the 8
problems that occur when Indian Point -- when nuclear 9
power is used to make electricity. There are problems 10 with the spent fuel pools, the leaks should not have 11 happened, although I do want to assure everybody that 12 there was absolutely no impact on the local water --
13 drinking water.
14 In fact, the river water temperature 15 increases should also be taken into account. I agree 16 that the NRC should focus on these issues. However, 17 you cannot look at Indian Point or nuclear power in a 18 vacuum. You have to compare what would happen if 19 Indian Point was not in operation. What would happen 20 would be an increase in burning fossil fuels. This 21 should be taken into account not only by the NRC but 22 by the DEC. I was sad that the speaker did not take 23 that into account, nor did Congressman Hall.
24 Because of Indian Point, there is a 25 reduction in the amount of fossil fuels which would be 26
30 burned. That is important. Why? Because of global 1
warming, because of the greenhouse effect, because of 2
the impact of burning fossil fuels on fish and 3
wildlife, because of the effect on human health in 4
terms of asthma, emphysema, and, yes, even cancer.
5 Without Indian Point, there would be more 6
fossil fuels burned and more of these adverse 7
consequences. So if you add up the benefits and 8
liabilities of nuclear power compared to burning 9
fossil fuels, it is obvious that nuclear power stands 10 pretty tall.
11 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'm sorry. I'm 12 going to interrupt you at this point. I'll let you 13 continue in a second.
14 MR. O'NEILL: Sure.
15 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: People should be 16 free to come up to the mic and express their opinions 17 without having people take exception to them. That 18 was one of the things that I asked for prior to this 19 meeting being started. When someone has the mic, they 20 should be able to speak freely.
21 If you would like to express your opinion 22 afterwards and hold up a sign, clap, or make some 23 other noise if you will, then please go ahead. But 24 please let the people have the mic, let them have the 25 floor, and respect their opinions while they are 26
31 speaking.
1 Thank you.
2 MR. O'NEILL: Thank you. Absolutely.
3 (Applause.)
4 You're right, sir. That is the American 5
way. Absolutely.
6 Just to continue, Westchester County and 7
the New York City metropolitan area suffer some of the 8
worst air pollution in the country if you look at the 9
EPA studies that are issued periodically. In fact, 10 there are two coal-burning plants that are directly 11 across the river from Westchester County, one of them 12 almost directly across the river from Indian Point.
13 Those two coal-burning plants have been in constant 14 violation of EPA emission standards for years, and 15 there seems to be no end in sight.
16 In addition, the so-called alternative 17 methods of making electricity may be very viable, but 18 they also have adverse environmental impacts. For 19 example, the California branch of the Natural 20 Resources Defense Council filed suit to stop the 21 construction of a wind farm. Robert Kennedy, Jr. of 22 the Riverkeeper opposed the wind farm in 23 Massachusetts.
24 Solar power -- there is another 25 alternative energy source that has problems because of 26
32 the chemicals used in the photoelectric cells. So no 1
matter what way electricity is made you have to look 2
at the environmental impact. And I am asking the NRC 3
and the DEC to take the impact of Indian Point in 4
benefitting the environment of the Hudson Valley, the 5
entire area, into account when they conduct the EIS.
6 In fact, I wish there was a federal agency 7
assigned, like the NRC is assigned, to oversee nuclear 8
powerplants, to oversee the operations of fossil fuel 9
burning plants like those right across the river.
10 I thank you. And if there's any 11 questions, I'll be glad to answer them.
12 (Applause.)
13 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you, sir.
14 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Thank you, Mayor. We 15 do have three more speakers next -- Mannajo Green of 16 Clearwater -- and she did correct me -- she is an 17 elected official, so I apologize for not mentioning 18 that earlier. Next, Dr. Patrick Moore of Green Spirit 19 Strategies, and then, finally, Norris McDonald, 20 President of the Afro-American Environmentalist 21 Association.
22 MS. GREENE: Thank you. I'm Mannajo 23 Greene, Environmental Director for Hudson River Sloop 24 Clearwater, and I serve on the Town Council in the 25 Town of Rosendale in Ulster County.
26
33 The NRC's primary mandate is to protect 1
public health and safety and the environment, and, 2
further, it is required to incorporate any new and 3
significant information into its findings. In a 4
democracy, the role of government, industry, and the 5
public has to be carefully balanced. And for free 6
enterprise to work, there have to be checks and 7
balances, and that demands that our regulatory 8
agencies exercise the utmost rigor and err on the side 9
of protection, not on leniency.
10 Everything in our environment is 11 interconnected. I ask the NRC to maintain as holistic 12 approach as possible. They have wide discretion and 13 should use it to be inclusive and not exclude any 14 relevant information. Just a moment of history, and 15 that is when these plants all over the country that 16 have been licensed for 40 years were first licensed, 17 they were simply licensed for 40 years.
18 About 18 years into the process they 19 realized that, you know, they could maybe get another 20 20 years out of their investment and prevailed upon 21 the NRC to promulgate regulations for relicensing.
22 However, over the recent past, or over time, the 23 issues that can be considered in relicensing, and the 24 public's ability to have input has been systematically 25 narrowed.
26
34 This is part of a whole tendency that we 1
see for individual and community rights to be usurped 2
by corporate power. And it's a question of where the 3
most money is to protect interests. But for the NRC 4
to do its job, the more public input they have, and 5
the more they listen to it, the more effective they 6
will be.
7 Clearwater was here originally. We 8
originally opposed the siting of this plant due to its 9
location in what was then a relatively dense 10 population, but the increase in population over the 11 years has been -- that has exceeded our projections.
12 You can't grandfather in the site. Our 13 congressional delegates are trying to get the laws 14 amended, but you can use your discretionary power.
15 You can tell your attorneys to find out how you can 16 include information, not how you don't need to include 17 information. And to ignore the increase in population 18 density, the lack of viability of the emergency 19 evacuation plan is an unacceptable form of denial.
20 And then, I think it's urgent -- I lost my 21 place. Excuse me a second. Also, to say that 22 radioactive material that is leaking into the 23 groundwater and into the Hudson River is being handled 24 by an ongoing monitoring and investigation, which is 25 definitely necessary, but these are also symptomatic 26
35 of an aging and deteriorating facility. And the 1
leaking absolutely must be taken into consideration, 2
and, further, it must be contained and remediated 3
before a relicensing is allowed.
4 And then, it's also important to require 5
that aging infrastructure be repaired and replaced, 6
and we cannot afford a 20-year extension to be a human 7
experiment in how far you can allow aging equipment to 8
go before a plant is closed.
9 Alternative energy has been mentioned over 10 and over today. Alternative energy is the 11 alternative. By 2013 and 2015, and during the 20 12 years thereafter, substantial increases in 13 infrastructure for alternative energy, for renewable 14 energy and energy efficiency, will be put into place 15 in the Hudson Valley, and that must be reliably 16 estimated.
17 And, finally, I have a comment. Several 18 groups have made comments about the environmental 19 justice implications of nuclear power. Not only is it 20 not a clean source of power, but from its original 21 manufacture, from the mining, from the processing, 22 from the enrichment of the uranium, to the waste 23 disposal, those -- all of those practices have 24 environmental impacts, and invariably those impacts 25 are on communities of color and Native American 26
36 communities.
1 The waste nationally that is planned --
2 radioactive waste is planned to be moved to Yucca 3
Mountain. Now, that has never gone through, and it 4
will be stored onsite. But that environmental justice 5
issue really works -- definitely works both ways. And 6
I think it's really important that that point be made.
7 Thank you.
8 (Applause.)
9 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Thank you.
10 Dr. Moore?
11 DR. MOORE: Thank you for the opportunity 12 to take part. My name is Patrick Moore. I am a co-13 founder and 15-year former Director of Green Peace.
14 I am now Chair and Chief Scientist, Green Spirit 15 Strategies, Limited, focused on sustainability. And 16 I am presently an advisor to New York area.
17 One day when I was doing my Ph.D. in 18 ecology at the University of British Columbia I read 19 about a little group of people meeting in a church 20 basement in Vancouver, planning a protest against U.S.
21 hydrogen bomb testing. I joined that group and ended 22 up being in the planning and on the first voyage of 23 what became Green Peace.
24 We convinced President Nixon at the time 25 to end those hydrogen bomb tests. As a matter of 26
37 fact, that was the last time the United States ever 1
detonated a hydrogen bomb. With that victory behind 2
us, we went on -- I went on -- to spend the next 15 3
years full-time in the front lines of the movement 4
around the world.
5 We got a lot of things right -- stop the 6
bomb, save the whales, stop toxic discharge, etcetera.
7 But I think we made one serious error -- in our 8
enthusiasm, focused on nuclear weapons testing and the 9
threat of all-out nuclear holocaust between the Soviet 10 Union and the United States.
11 We made the mistake of lumping nuclear 12 energy in with nuclear weapons, as if they were all 13 part of the same holocaust. I think we failed to 14 differentiate between the peaceful and beneficial uses 15 of the technology and the destructive and even evil 16 uses of the technology. If we banned all technologies 17 that could be used for evil purposes, we would never 18 have harnessed fire.
19 A car bomb is made with a car, diesel oil, 20 and fertilizer. Is the best way to stop car bombs to 21 ban diesel oil, fertilizer, and automobiles? No.
22 Think of nuclear medicine for a minute. Nuclear 23 medicine successfully diagnoses and treats millions of 24 people every year. Many of the isotopes used in 25 nuclear medicine come from nuclear reactors -- cobalt-26
38 60, technetium, and others.
1 I want to talk about the environmental 2
issues. Climate change is the biggest environmental 3
issue today. Many people have come up and made the 4
assertion that nuclear energy is producing a lot of 5
greenhouse gas and CO2 emissions. This is purposely 6
misleading the public. There are many independent, 7
full life cycle analyses of greenhouse gas emissions 8
from all the different electricity sources.
9 Nuclear plants produce on average five 10 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour. Solar panels produce 11 35 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour, largely because of 12 the need to extract silicon, which is a very energy-13 intensive process. Gas plants produce 500 grams of 14 CO2 per kilowatt hour, 100 times as much as nuclear 15 energy. And coal-fired powerplants produce 1,000 16 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour, 200 times as much as 17 nuclear energy.
18 These are facts -- this is from the Office 19 of Science and Technology from the Parliament of the 20 United Kingdom. You can also Google the University of 21 Madison, Wisconsin, that has done an independent study 22 of full life cycle CO2 for all power generation 23 sources.
24 Nuclear and hydroelectric are the two 25 lowest CO2 emitters of all our technologies. That is 26
39 partly why New York State is the fifth lowest per 1
capital CO2 emitter in the country, because 45 percent 2
of its electricity comes from either nuclear or 3
hydroelectric. Vermont and Idaho are the lowest, 4
because even more of their electricity is coming from 5
either hydroelectric, as in the case of Vermont --
6 Idaho, I mean, and a combination of hydro and nuclear 7
in the case of Vermont.
8 I'd like to talk about fish for a sec. We 9
were told by a member of Riverkeeper that the plant at 10 Indian Point is killing a billion fish a year. I 11 don't think there is a billion fish in that river.
12 (Laughter.)
13 That is a ridiculous thing to say.
14 Meanwhile, their own leader -- Bobby Kennedy -- said 15 recently, "Today, the Hudson River is the richest body 16 of water in the North Atlantic Region, producing more 17 pounds of fish per acre than any other waterway in the 18 Atlantic Ocean north of the equator."
19 (Laughter.)
20 That plant has been there for 35 years 21 while the Hudson River has systematically recovered 22 from a time when 20-mile stretches of it were dead to 23 where Bobby Kennedy is saying it's the most productive 24 river north of the equator in the Atlantic Ocean. I 25 don't understand how those points jive at all.
26
40 Finally, I'd like to talk about air 1
quality. The Mayor of Buchanan made it clear, and so 2
did the National Science study -- National Academy of 3
Science study. There has to be an alternative to the 4
energy at Indian Point if it is shut down. It 5
provides nearly a third of New York's power on some 6
days, and runs the whole mass transit system. What 7
are the alternatives to nuclear? Well, I'll tell you 8
one thing: they're not wind and solar.
9 Wind energy has a very useful application 10 in that when the wind is blowing you can turn off some 11 of the gas peaking plants if you're at peak power 12 requirements. Solar is simply too expensive and will 13
-- unless it comes down by 10 times in price, will 14 remain a very minor niche player.
15 But those aren't the reasons that they 16 can't replace Indian Point. It's because they are 17 intermittent and unreliable sources of energy by 18 nature. The sun does not shine at night. the wind 19 does not blow all the time, and, therefore, they 20 cannot provide base load electricity to the grid like 21 nuclear, hydro, and fossil fuels can.
22 The only alternative would be gas-fired 23 plants producing 10 million tons more CO2, and it 24 absolutely blows my mind when I hear someone from 25 Riverkeeper, an environmental group, say the words 26
41 "clean natural gas." How is 10 million tons of 1
additional CO2 clean? And how are additional tons of 2
sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxides, and particulate 3
matters clean? It's absolutely logically inconsistent 4
to on one hand say shut down Indian Point, and on the 5
other hand say we're all worried about air pollution 6
and climate change.
7 The only way to get -- to keep the air as 8
clean as it is in this state is to keep Indian Point 9
operating safely, cost effectively, and clean, just 10 like it has been for the last 35 years.
11 Thank you very much.
12 (Applause.)
13 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you, sir.
14 Since he named a few of the groups by name, I wanted 15 to give a chance for just a 30-second rebuttal.
16 MS. SHAPIRO: Mr. Moore, unfortunately, 17 has misrepresented himself and lied about his 18 background, his credentials, and the truth of nuclear 19 power. Its costs are much higher than anything else.
20 Its fossil fuel print is equal, if not greater, and he 21 hasn't addressed the issue of the spent fuel waste, 22 the radioactive waste, 18,000 tons, sitting in spent 23 fuel pools right here on the river.
24 (Applause.)
25 He also -- and I have a question for him 26
42 that I'd like him to answer -- how much money has he 1
received from the nuclear industry? He is on the 2
nuclear payroll. He is on the payroll of the Nuclear 3
Energy Institute --
4 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Ms. Shapiro?
5 MS. SHAPIRO: -- as well as --
6 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I promised you 30 7
seconds.
8 MS. SHAPIRO: All right. Please answer 9
the question.
10 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you.
11 MS. SHAPIRO: How much money are you 12 making from the nuclear industry?
13 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Rich, who do we have 14 next?
15 MR. BARKLEY: Norris McDonald is who we'd 16 call next. Norris?
17 MR. McDONALD: Good evening. My name is 18 Norris McDonald, and I'm Founder and President of the 19 African-American Environmentalist Association. And I 20 have to make an admission here first thing, and that 21 is that I love Indian Point.
22 (Applause.)
23 We also, obviously, support the license 24 renewal, but let me get down to business here. We 25 submitted written -- a written statement for the 26
43 record. We went through the entire environmental 1
report and addressed each item. I won't try to do 2
that now, but I will go over some of the items of 3
interest to the members of our organization.
4 The Director of our New York office 5
testified at the afternoon hearing and pointed out 6
some of the environmental justice considerations that 7
I'm going to also add to. And we will supplement our 8
record, probably later we'll submit an electronic 9
copy.
10 One thing in the environmental report that 11 we're a little concerned about is the Section 4.22.2, 12 and that's on environmental justice. It's a little 13 confusing, and NRC should maybe revisit that.
14 It states that 10 CFR Part 51 -- that 15 Entergy isn't responsible for conducting an 16 environmental justice analysis, yet the NRC comes back 17 around and says that in its environmental justice 18 review it will rely upon Entergy's environmental 19 report to base its environmental justice review on 20 that. That's something that NRC should look at and do 21 something about.
22 Also, I'd like to revisit the state, the 23 Department of Environmental Conservation, and the 24 water permit. The New York State Department of 25 Environmental Conservation, environmental justice 26
44 policy, states that it is the general policy of the 1
DEC to promote environmental justice and incorporate 2
measures for achieving environmental justice into its 3
- programs, policies, regulations, legislative 4
proposals, and activities. This policy is 5
specifically intended to ensure that DEC's 6
environmental permit process promotes environmental 7
justice.
8 In order to reduce the levels of 9
impingement and entrainment of Hudson River fish, the 10 Department of Environmental Conservation's draft SPDES 11 permit could substantially limit the ability of Indian 12 Point 2 and 3 to generate electricity, and may even 13 lead to the closure of the facilities. And that's our 14 big concern. I will talk about that a little bit 15 later.
16 Any substantial reduction in the amount of 17 electricity generated by Indian Point 2 and 3 will 18 spark demand for replacement electricity from nearby 19 powerplants. Unfortunately, these powerplants are, 20 for the most part, pollution-emitting fossil fuel 21 plants located in New York's low income and minority 22 communities.
23 As production of these fossil fuel plants 24 increases, the air quality in and around these plants 25 will further deteriorate, causing a spike in the 26
45 incidences of respiratory and cardiovascular diseases 1
in the communities where these plants are based. The 2
draft SPDES permit, therefore, effectively places the 3
interests of Hudson River fish eggs and larvae over 4
the health of New York's low income and minority 5
communities.
6 In the Bronx, which is 35.6 percent 7
African-American and 88 percent minority, there are 8
two powerplants. In Brooklyn, which is 36.4 percent 9
African-American and 64.2 percent minority, there are 10 seven powerplants. In Queens, which is 20 percent 11 African-American and 63.2 percent minority, there are 12 six powerplants. So you get the idea -- and I could 13 go on for the rest of the night about the 14 disproportionate impact in minority and African-15 American communities.
16 The trash transfer stations, most of the 17 bus depots, and I'm sure hopefully NRC will look at 18 those items. But also, within the environmental 19 report, and in the development of the EIS, I would 20 hope that you would spend more time looking at the 21 benefits, the great benefits of Indian Point. That's 22 what I love -- the great benefits. That is a fact 23 that it's emission-free.
24 New York State is facing a SIP call, the 25 state implementation plan, of the Clean Air Act. Most 26
46 of the non-attainment areas will violate those. I get 1
frustrated, because I have been working in the 2
environmental community for 28 years, and the non-3 attainment areas, they continue to be non-attainment 4
areas. We have to do something about that.
5 Well, by its very nature, Indian Point 6
does something about that. So let's go more into the 7
benefits. Indian Point will benefit the regional 8
greenhouse gas initiative. Of course, NRC is required 9
to conduct an environmental justice analysis due to 10 the Presidential Executive Order 12898 passed back 11 January 11, 1994.
12 So let's look at more of the benefits.
13 Let's look at the benefits in terms of smog, which is 14 our big issue. I'm a chronic acute asthmatic. I've 15 almost died twice. Now, many people in this room 16 would say, "Hey, you're not dead yet?"
17 (Laughter.)
18 Or would like to see me dead, and that's 19 fine, because let's address hate and its progeny, 20 prejudice. There's a prejudice against Indian Point.
21 But I'll tell you what: I love Indian Point. And the 22 main reason I love Indian Point -- and it's not about 23 me -- it's about the four-year old child in Harlem in 24 a high-rise apartment on a non-attainment day without 25 air conditioning, the suffering of children from smog, 26
47 and that makes me angry.
1 And I'll stand up to any hate and any 2
prejudice for this plant, for that issue, for those 3
children. We will be their representative. I love 4
Indian Point.
5 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you, sir.
6 (Applause.)
7 I'm going to ask one more time that if 8
people could please turn your cell phones off or 9
silence them. There has been about a half a dozen 10 times that they've gone off, and it's kind of 11 disruptive. So if you could, please. Thank you.
12 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Our next three 13 speakers are Lisa Rainwater of Riverkeeper, followed 14 by Jerry Kremmer of AREA, and then Frank Fraley of the 15 Mount Vernon Hospital Center.
16 MS. RAINWATER: Thanks, Rich. Lisa 17 Rainwater, Policy Director at Riverkeeper. And I have 18 a written statement that I can hand in for the record 19 after I have completed my talk.
20 I'd like to first thank the NRC for 21 granting the 60-day extension for the submittal of the 22 petitions to intervene in Indian Point's relicensing 23 proceedings. I'm here to address two issues tonight 24
-- one that remains of great importance to those 25 living in the shadows of Indian Point evacuation 26
48 planning, and the other that goes to the heart of our 1
democratic society -- the right to communicate with 2
our government agencies without fear of intimidation 3
and harassment.
4 Neither
- issue, under current NRC 5
relicensing regulations, is taken seriously. But, 6
nonetheless, I use this opportunity to shine a 7
spotlight on these issues that have been left in the 8
darkened corners of the NRC's regulatory process.
9 Emergency planning is an
- issue, 10 unfortunately, that the NRC refuses to address during 11 the relicensing process, despite significant changes 12 in the population, roadways, and infrastructure, since 13 the plant was originally sited in the agriculture 14 landscape of Buchanan, New York, nearly half a century 15 ago.
16 A 2003 report conducted by James Lee Witt, 17 FEMA Director under President Clinton, and considered 18 the nation's leading emergency planning expert on 19 Indian Point's emergency evacuation plans concluded 20 that "The current radiological response system and 21 capabilities are not adequate to overcome their 22 combined weight and protect the people from an 23 unacceptable dose of radiation in the event of a 24 release from Indian Point, especially if the release 25 is faster or larger than the design basis release."
26
49 Most county officials, emergency 1
responders, and area residents understand that, given 2
high population density and congested road networks 3
that characterize the New York metropolitan area, 4
Indian Point's emergency plans are patently unworkable 5
and unfixable. In fact, three of the four counties 6
and the New York State emergency management office 7
have refused to submit their annual certification 8
letters for five years running, and yet the NRC and 9
FEMA continue to rubber stamp a gravely flawed plan.
10 These are the concerns that I and fellow 11 New Yorkers submitted to NRC Chairman Dale Klein 12 beginning on May 29, 2007, in the form of an 13 electronic action alert issued by Riverkeeper. We 14 further requested that the NRC include emergency 15 planning in its relicensing proceedings for Indian 16 Point.
17 On August 7th, J.E. Dyer, Director for the 18 Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation, wrote a response 19 back to me and hundreds of others explaining why the 20 NRC will not look at emergency planning -- a topic I 21 will return to shortly. This letter was sent to my 22 home address and subsequently sent as a copy to every 23 individual person who participated in the first 24 release of our action alert -- approximately 400 25 people.
26
50 It's bad enough that the NRC found it 1
acceptable to send the letter to my Riverkeeper office 2
and to my home address not once but four times, and 3
violated my right to privacy by sharing my home 4
address with hundreds of people. What's worse, 5
however, is that the NRC deemed it appropriate to 6
attach to every response letter a list of names and 7
addresses of all those private citizens who sent in a 8
9 The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is a 10 federal agency set up by Congress. Your job is to 11 protect the public. It is not your job to harass and 12 intimidate concerned citizens from providing you 13 feedback on your regulatory process. We live in a 14 democratic society. We are supposed to have a 15 government that is open, transparent, and concerned 16 about the public good, on a variety of issues, from 17 the food we eat to the air we breathe to the 18 medications we take to the entertainment we receive on 19 television and the radio.
20 In all my years of actively participating 21 in our democracy, and the hundreds of action alerts 22 that I have participated in in a variety of issues --
23 and believe it or not, just not nuclear -- not once 24 has a federal agency or a state agency or a federal 25 bureau or a state bureau publicly distributed the 26
51 names and addresses of those who contacted them out of 1
concern over a particular issue.
2 There is a term for the actions taken by 3
the NRC under Mr. Dyer's direction: citizen 4
intimidation. If people stop coming to your meetings, 5
if people stop submitting comments to your federal 6
agency, if people stop raising concerns about Indian 7
Point, the only nuclear plant in the country to be 8
leaking strontium-90 into public waterways, a plant 9
that has a five-to six-time emergency plant unplanned 10 shutdown rate than any in the country, a plant that 11 continues to have incredulous accidents, mishaps, and 12 breakdowns, it's not because they're not afraid of 13 Indian Point, it's because they're afraid of you.
14 But it seems that the NRC also has fears 15
-- fears that if emergency planning were to be 16 included in the relicensing process for Indian Point, 17 the plant may fail the test and need to cease 18 operation at the end of its current license.
19 In his letter to me and hundreds of 20 others, Mr. Dyer noted, and I quote, "In adopting its 21 regulations for license renewal, the Commission 22 determined that the existing regulatory framework for 23 emergency preparedness at operating reactors is 24 sufficient, and that the staff need not review the 25 emergency preparedness again as part of the license 26
52 renewal process. The NRC generally relies on FEMA's 1
review of emergency plans and preparedness for areas 2
surrounding nuclear powerplants."
3 In other words, the NRC refused our 4
request. But then again, the NRC has refused the 5
County of Westchester's formal petition requesting 6
that emergency planning be included. The NRC has 7
refused the New York State Attorney General's request 8
that emergency planning be included, and the NRC has 9
refused the New York Hudson Valley Congressional 10 Delegation's request that emergency planning be 11 included.
12 But if, in fact, the NRC relies on FEMA's 13 review of emergency plans for regions around the 14 plant, then surely the latest news to come from FEMA 15 is all the NRC needs to shut down Indian Point until 16 an adequate emergency siren system is working.
17 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: If you could please 18 summarize.
19 MS. RAINWATER: On September 12th -- I 20 have one more thing, and Dr. Moore --
21 (Applause.)
22
-- was able to conclude. I would prefer 23
-- I have one paragraph. I would like to conclude.
24 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: That's fine. Please 25 be brief.
26
53 MS. RAINWATER: I just saw the one minute 1
remaining light there.
2 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Please.
3 MS. RAINWATER: On September 12th, FEMA 4
sent a letter to New York State's Emergency Management 5
Office in which the current emergency sirens at Indian 6
Point are deemed unworkable. I quote, "The placement 7
of the new sirens decreases the audibility of the 8
existing system." Therefore, the new electronic 9
sirens that were installed and tested by Entergy must 10 be removed from interfering with the sound path of any 11 existing co-located rotating siren in order to restore 12 the existing system to its full functionality.
13 For over two years, the public has waited 14 for a reliable emergency notification system at Indian 15 Point. And if one is to read accurately FEMA's 16 assessment of Entergy's installation proceedings, we 17 have been waiting while the company has been dilly-18 dallying. And what penalties has Entergy faced for 19 missing not one but three deadlines?
20 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'm sorry.
21 MS. RAINWATER: A paltry $130,000.
22 Perhaps the NRC --
23 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I hate -- Miss --
24 MS. RAINWATER: -- should begin --
25 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Miss? Miss? I'm 26
54 sorry.
1 MS. RAINWATER: I have one sentence, and 2
I need to -- perhaps the NRC --
3 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: All right. All 4
right. All right.
5 PARTICIPANT: Give her a minute.
6 MS. RAINWATER: -- should begin developing 7
fear in the entity it is mandated to regulate and stop 8
intimidating citizens.
9 Thank you.
10 (Applause.)
11 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'd just like to 12 remind everyone -- at the beginning of the meeting I 13 asked people to speak -- stick to a specific 14 timeframe, so that we could let everyone speak.
15 (Applause.)
16 I hope that I'm not being intimidating by 17 saying this, but if you could please stick to that 18 timeframe, it will allow us to get through people 19 faster.
20 (Applause.)
21 Thank you.
22 MR. BARKLEY: I did -- I understood --
23 (Inaudible comment from audience member.)
24 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Miss, please. I 25 gave her the same amount of time that I've given 26
55 everyone else. That's as much as we're discussing 1
this.
2 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Actually, I gave her 3
about two minutes extra.
4 Jerry, go ahead.
5 MR. KREMMER: I'd like to thank the NRC 6
for allowing us to participate in this hearing. My 7
name is Jerry Kremmer. I'm the Chairman of the 8
Advisory Board of the New York Affordable Reliable 9
Electricity Alliance. We have 123 members, including 10 the Business Council of Westchester County, the 11 Westchester County Association, the New York City 12 Partnership, the Building Congress of New York, 21 13 union organizations, and a variety of community 14 groups.
15 We were formed some four years ago, 16 because we felt it was necessary for there to be 17 another voice on the issue of energy sources here in 18 this region. I'm a 23-year veteran of the New York 19 State Legislature and have been involved with power 20 issues probably since the early 1970s.
21 According to the NRC, this hearing is 22 designed to give members of the public the chance to 23 suggest environmental issues that the NRC should 24 consider. There are many factors that NRC must 25 consider in making its decision. We believe that air 26
56 quality has to be one of the key factors in making 1
your decision, which I noted on your chart.
2 Because Indian Point is located in New 3
York, which has the dubious distinction of having the 4
poorest air quality in the nation, the NRC has an even 5
more daunting challenge. To understand the gravity of 6
our air quality situation, one has to look no further 7
than the EPA scorecard on air quality in this region.
8 The following areas in New York State are 9
in violation of federal ozone standards as well as 10 federal standards for particulate matter: the five 11 burroughs of New York City, Long Island, three 12 counties of the Lower Hudson Valley, including 13 Westchester, Putnam, and Rockland. Dutchess and 14 Orange are also in violation of federal ozone 15 standards.
16 Additionally, the Lung Association's 2007 17 report shows that New York's air quality continues to 18 worsen with the New York area continuing to be the 19 most dangerous place to breathe the air for thousands 20 and thousands of asthma sufferers, along with many 21 others who have respiratory illnesses.
22 Indian Point generates 2,000 megawatts of 23 electricity, enough to power approximately two million 24 homes. Most important is that it generates this power 25 without spewing harmful toxins or greenhouse emissions 26
57 into our atmosphere. Two thousand megawatts is a lot 1
of power, equal to four or five natural gas or coal 2
burning plants. So minus Indian Point, we would need 3
four or five fossil fuel burning plants to replace the 4
electricity that Indian Point produces.
5 And I must point out to you, there are 6
none in the pipeline, there's no New York State siting 7
law, there's nothing going on, there's nothing coming 8
downline, so we can't be cavalier about the potential 9
for the fact that a lot of people in this room may 10 face the possibility one day of hitting that light 11 switch and nothing happens.
12 However, there are several issues that I 13 think are more important as you go into this air 14 quality. There are those who put forth the notion 15 that we can replace Indian Point with power generated 16 from wind turbines or solar panels. These renewable 17 former energies are great, they're terrific, we should 18 have them in our portfolio.
19 They have just tried to build one in the 20 ocean off of Jones Beach, and the Long Island Power 21 Authority has abandoned that wind project because of 22 cost factors. So people talk about wind; you just 23 can't do it.
24 Our mass transit system in New York City, 25 our local hospitals, our emergency rooms, our sporting 26
58 arenas, can't wait for the wind to blow and the sun to 1
shine. They need power on demand, and Indian Point 2
provides that for them.
3 The things that make nuclear the best form 4
of base load power is the fact that it doesn't emit 5
harmful pollutants, pollutants like NOX, like SOX. We 6
hear a lot about it. People don't realize the fact 7
that nuclear is not one of the criminal elements 8
involved in producing it.
9 Even if the wind was blowing all the time, 10 like it does in certain parts of the west, or the sun 11 was out 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day, you can't get enough power to 12 replace 2,000 megawatts. Using calculations of the 13 amount of electricity produced from the average wind 14 turbine in New York, it would require 1,300 wind 15 turbines to replace Indian Point. Ironically, the 16 same environmentalists that we mentioned earlier who 17 runs the group that is opposed to Indian Point fought 18 to kill the wind farm off of Martha's Vineyard. You 19 can't have it both ways.
20 And that project only proposed to site 21 one-tenth of the number of turbines. Good luck on 22 getting their support for that type of project.
23 I don't think there's an elected official 24 in this room who appeared recently in June when I did, 25 or who appeared tonight or is going to appear at the 26
59 next hearing, who is willing to raise their hand and 1
say, "I will willingly accept one of those five coal 2
plants in my community, because it's the patriotic 3
thing to do. It just ain't going to happen."
4 In closing, I request that the NRC give 5
significant weight to the fact that without Indian 6
Point producing 2,000 megawatts of emission-free 7
electricity, the atmosphere in the New York City 8
region will further degrade as fossil fuel burning 9
plants are built to replace the enormous levels of 10 power that Indian Point produces. The replacement 11 power would generate 14 million tons of CO2 each year.
12 It's a sad fact that should Indian Point's 13 energy need to be replaced, the replacement power will 14 be paid for not just in dollars but in the health of 15 our most vulnerable citizens -- children, senior 16 citizens, the people we care so much about.
17 Thank you for taking this into account.
18 (Applause.)
19 MR. BARKLEY: All right. Our next three 20 speakers are Andy O'Connell of UWUA Local 1-2, Mark 21 Jacobs, IBISCG -- IPSEC, I'm sorry, and Mark 22 Cooperman.
23 MR. O'CONNELL: Good evening, everybody.
24 My name is Andy O'Connell. I'm the Senior Business 25 Agent for Utility Workers Union of America Local 1-2.
26
60 We represent members in all of the fossil fuel SID 1
plants in the inner city, as well as the members in 2
the Indian Point plant. We're intimately involved in 3
generation, transmission, and distribution of 4
electricity.
5 I'd like to stand up here and give an 6
eloquent speech, but it's just not my style. I'd like 7
to -- I've heard a lot of acronyms over the years from 8
the different agencies and Indian Point itself. Who 9
out there knows what KISS stands for? Keep It Simple.
10 Keep It Simple, Stupid, in military terms. That's 11 what I'd like to do.
12 On behalf of approximately 450 members 13 that are working at the Indian Point Energy Center --
14 local residents from the Hudson Valley, mothers, 15
- fathers, sisters,
- brothers, sons, daughters, 16 taxpayers, and voters. I'm here to offer our support 17 for the Indian Point Energy Center, which we all know 18 to be safe, secure, and necessary.
19 Unlike the anti-nuclear, anti-industry, 20 naysayers who at most have toured the plant, we are 21 the ones who tighten every bolt. We check every 22 meter, and we run every wire and every pipe in that 23 plant. Like my union brothers and sisters, I would 24 not enter that facility or send other workers into 25 that facility if it was not safe.
26
61 I also see that safety on a daily basis.
1 On behalf the Utility Workers Union of America Local 2
1-2, I ask that both the NRC and the community at 3
large not be swayed by well-funded anti-nuclear 4
groups, but rather look at the facts objectively when 5
passing judgment on the plant.
6 Now, that's my prepared speech. You know, 7
it wasn't that bad. One thing I'd like to say, I'd 8
like to put it in layman's terms for a lot of people 9
out there that don't fully understand what's going on 10 and the eloquent speeches that everybody is giving.
11 Energy or electricity is generated at 60 cycles a 12 second. That means every 30 seconds, or 30 times a 13 minute, the lights in this room are going off, and we 14 don't see it.
15 Without Indian Point and the 20 percent of 16 power that it produces, I'd like each and every one of 17 you to go home and turn off the lights and everything 18 that electricity runs for one out of every 10 minutes 19 or 2.4 hours4.62963e-5 days <br />0.00111 hours <br />6.613757e-6 weeks <br />1.522e-6 months <br /> a day each and every day, because, like 20 the gentleman before me said, there is nothing down 21 the line that's going to replace it.
22 Thank you very much.
23 (Applause.)
24 MR. JACOBS: Good evening. My name is 25 Mark Jacobs. I'm with the Indian Point Safe Energy 26
62 Coalition. I guess we're one of the supposedly well-1 funded groups that is being talked about. But if 2
anyone wants to see our budget, I think that very 3
quickly you would see that that just isn't actually 4
the case.
5 I'm a volunteer. I've worked on this 6
issue as a volunteer for almost 10 years. And that's 7
what I'm getting paid for at volunteer pay. That's 8
nothing.
9 I want to address a number of points. Mr.
10 McDonald brought up the issue of the environmental 11 impact of the plant and environmental justice issues.
12 In order to defend that point, he cited plants solely 13 within the burroughs of New York City. But what 14 should be very clear, and I'm sure that if he does a 15 little more research he'll find this for himself, that 16 were Indian Point to be shut down it would not impact 17 at all the running of the powerplants within New York 18 City.
19 They are still going to be required to 20 produce 80 percent of the power, and they are still 21 going to be importing approximately 20 percent of the 22 power, whether Indian Point is open or closed.
23 (Applause.)
24 Let's talk about the environmental issues.
25 The environmental impact of Indian Point has to do 26
63 with the environment of Indian Point itself. What is 1
the environment at the Indian Point nuclear 2
powerplant? It's an environment where we have ongoing 3
leaks, leaks that have been going on for over two 4
years, that we don't know the source of, we don't know 5
the extent of, we don't know when they started, we 6
don't know more -- much more than we do know about 7
those leaks.
8 We have a guard caught sleeping at the 9
plant again. We have an incredible number of 10 unplanned shutdowns. We have an owner-operator who is 11 not ready for inspectors when they come to do an 12 inspection at the plant. That's the environmental 13 impact. The impact of having an environment of a 14 plant run by Entergy in this way is a danger.
15 Now, we also need to look at the impact by 16 the plant being regulated by a federal agency like the 17 Nuclear Regulatory Commission. And Ms. Rainwater 18 raised some really important issues about how the NRC 19 has been doing on certain issues. I want to raise 20 another one. I read an article recently about how the 21 Nuclear Regulatory Commission was going to deal with 22 the fact that the sirens still are not functioning, 23 having missed three deadlines.
24 Well, it isn't actually three deadlines.
25 It's probably closer to 240 deadlines, because every 26
64 day after the first deadline is when the sirens should 1
have been ready. But the Nuclear Regulatory 2
Commission has the ability to fine hundreds of 3
thousands of dollars -- the owner-operator of the 4
plant hundreds of thousands of dollars each day.
5 Now, what was -- the quote in the recent 6
AP article about the approach of the NRC for the 7
sirens, Mr. Sheehan was quoted as saying that "We're 8
going to decide about what fines to impose after they 9
get the sirens up and running." And I called him up 10 right away. I actually called him up as soon as I 11 read that and got him on the phone and said, "Neil, 12 this has got to be a mistake, because your job is to 13 impose fines in order to get Entergy to get the sirens 14 working. If you wait until afterwards, what incentive 15 do they have?" And they said, "No, no, we talked 16 about it. We know we could fine -- impose fines every 17 day, from now until the time that the sirens are 18 working."
19 And we all know if that were done the 20 sirens would be up and running right away. But no, 21 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission yet again has 22 decided not to do its job of regulating and, 23 therefore, the siren may be up and running in some 24 unspecified future.
25 The issues that I want to talk about with 26
65
-- directly with respect to the environment --
1 environmental impact has to do with two or three 2
things. First of all, the leaks -- the problem of the 3
leaks have to be solved. It is absolutely 4
irresponsible to consider relicensing this plant until 5
the leaks -- the sources of the leaks are identified, 6
they are stopped, and it's all cleaned up. That's 7
absolutely clear.
8 In order to make sure that we don't have 9
more leaks, you need to inspect all of the pipes at 10 the plant. Now that's difficult. There are tens of 11 thousands of feet of piping at that plant. But in 12 order for the plant to be safely run, it would need to 13 be fully inspected.
14 Now, we've heard a lot tonight about -- we 15 heard Mr. McDonald say that Indian Point is emission-16 free. We've heard a number of people speaking in 17 support of Indian Point talk about how the fossil fuel 18 plants produce so much greater environmental impact.
19 And in certain ways fossil fuel plants do produce more 20 environmental impact. But what we didn't hear any of 21 them -- these people talk about is the environmental 22 impact of the radiation released from the plant.
23 And I'm just going to read an excerpt of 24 a statement that Joe Mangano and myself put together, 25 and I'm going to be submitting this part of the 26
66 statement in writing, and it's fairly brief.
1 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Yes. Please keep it 2
brief. You've got about half a minute left.
3 MR. JACOBS: Yes. I'll go the same seven 4
minutes that Mr. Moore went, but then I won't go 5
beyond that. I think that's only fair.
6 Reactors routinely release radioactivity.
7 Persons living near Indian Point would be exposed to 8
more of these radioactive chemicals were Indian Point 9
to be relicensed. Historically, Indian Point has a 10 checkered record of contaminating the local 11 environment.
12 Do people realize this? It released the 13 fifth-most airborne radioactivity of 72 U.S. nuclear 14 powerplants. Radioactivity levels in the Hudson River 15 are over 10 times greater in this area than they are 16 in Albany. Levels of strontium-90 in local baby teeth 17 are the highest in any area near seven U.S. nuclear 18 powerplants, and this amount of strontium-90, which is 19 supposed to just have come from the bomb testing, has 20 risen 38 percent -- 38 percent since the late 1980s 21 after the bomb testing had long stopped.
22 This record of contamination raises health 23 concerns, which are heightened when considering that 24 since 2000, in the four counties closest to Indian 25 Point, childhood cancer incidence is 22 percent above 26
67 the U.S. rate. Thyroid cancer incidence is 70 percent 1
above the U.S. rate. And cancer incidence in the six 2
towns within five miles of Indian Point is 20 percent 3
greater than the rest of Rockland and Westchester 4
Counties.
5 If closing Indian Point results in 6
decreases in cancer mortality in a way parallel to the 7
closure of the Rancho Seco plant in California, 5,000 8
fewer cancer deaths would occur in the next 20 years 9
in Westchester, Rockland, Orange, and Putnam Counties.
10 While many factors contribute to cancer risk, evidence 11 suggests that more detailed study on Indian Point is 12 warranted, and that the public be informed of any 13 health risks.
14 The prudent policy would be not to grant 15 license extension until the public better understands 16 the extent of the threat that Indian Point presents to 17 local public health.
18 Thank you.
19 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you, Mark.
20 Thanks.
21 (Applause.)
22 MR. BARKLEY: Mark Cooperman?
23 MR. COOPERMAN: My name is Mark Cooperman.
24 I'm a resident of Cortlandt Manor, have been a 25 resident for nearly 20 years.
26
68 I'd like to consider myself just an 1
average citizen of the community, and I want to kind 2
of speak up for us average citizens who kind of get 3
pushed out of the way by special interest groups.
4 I support the plant. My background is an 5
architectural background. I understand about the 6
viability of facilities, the need for proper 7
inspection of facilities as they age, buildings 8
throughout New York City. I hear things about aging 9
pipes in the nuclear plant.
10 I would hope that the NRC does inspect the 11 pipes and make sure that the facility is safe. My 12 only concern is that to shut the plant down right now 13 is going to be a big hardship on the region itself.
14 There are no viable energy substitutions. I think 15 back to my days coming out of college when they were 16 building the Shoreham plant out in Long Island.
17 Long Island didn't build that plant, and 18 now kind of they're suffering for power shortages, and 19 don't want to let them lay cables across the Sound, 20 nor do they want to be able to bring cables from New 21 Jersey. So what are we going to do if we shut down 22 the plant?
23 I have also seen, you know, people saying, 24 "You shut down the plant, because the facilities are 25 aging." Well, about a month ago in New York City 26
69 there was a steam pipe explosion. Are we to shut down 1
the streets of New York to guard against future steam 2
pipe explosions? There's a certain of risk we're all 3
going to live with.
4 I know the special interest groups try to 5
say that they're looking out for my interest, my 6
family's interest, my son's interest, but I'll tell 7
you right now, without this plant, there's going to be 8
big hardship in the area, yes.
9 Evacuation route, issues to be raised with 10 our other officials in Washington -- specifically, if 11 it's not with NRC, then it will have to be with FEMA.
12 But shutting down the plant is not going to be the 13 answer. There is nothing at this point to replace it.
14 We -- you know, serving on local boards 15 here in the community, we had a natural gas line that 16 wanted to come through this pretty area -- very close 17 to here. We had groups against it. Our homes run 18 either on oil or gas or electric. There is no other 19 substitution at this point. You have people that say, 20 "Put hydrogen fuel cells" -- well, there's a problem 21 with that at this point, and it may be a problem in 22 the near future as well.
23 The only solution that we have in this 24 community, in the region itself, is this plant. Close 25 it down; you're going to be left with a gap. I've 26
70 heard people say, "Gee, other facilities will fill the 1
gap." Come here on a hundred-degree day, and most of 2
your businesses are draining power from our grid, and 3
so where are you going to find that extra power?
4 So basically, in conclusion, again, as a 5
citizen of this community, for the average citizen who 6
probably won't get up and have a voice, at least in a 7
forum like this, listen to us as the average citizen 8
and not as a special interest party. You turn out 9
that plant, you're going to wind up turning out the 10 lights on a lot of us.
11 Good night.
12 (Applause.)
13 MR. BARKLEY: All right. Our next three 14 speakers, Maureen Ritter, Melvin Burruss of the Afro-15 American Men of Westchester, and then Audrey Roberts 16 of Raging Grannies.
17 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'm sorry. What was 18 the first -- who was the first speaker?
19 MR. BARKLEY: I believe we're going to 20 just -- I believe we're going to skip the first 21 speaker.
22 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Okay. Who was the 23 second speaker, then?
24 MR. BARKLEY: Melvin Burruss.
25 MR. BURRUSS: Again, I'm Melvin Burruss, 26
71 President of the African-American Men of Westchester.
1 I want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to 2
voice our views also.
3 What we believe in is we want to make sure 4
that NRC does the best job possible when they are 5
reviewing the Indian Point and nuclear energy and how 6
it affects our community. And there's a couple of 7
points I just want to make.
8 One is that, as the gentleman said 9
earlier, that the demand for electricity has always 10 grown, will continue to grow, even as efficiencies 11 increases and new technologies are brought online.
12 Right now, 50 percent of our electricity comes from 13 coal, which results in billions of tons of greenhouse 14 gas emissions annually.
15 Now, I'm looking at two issues here. One 16 is the health issues, because, again, I'm a diabetic 17 victim, I'm also a cancer victim, I'm also an asthma 18 victim. So I have a lot here. I have a real concern 19 myself.
20 But replacing Indian Point with coal or 21 natural gas will significantly increase airborne 22 pollutants and toxins that are truly harmful, 23 especially for our children, especially for our older 24 people, especially for folks like myself.
25 The second part is Homeland Security.
26
72 Nuclear power helps reduce our dependence on foreign 1
sources of energy. Right now, gas controlled by 2
Russia is $6. By reducing our need to buy natural gas 3
from abroad at expensive market rates, domestic 4
nuclear power helps reduce our dependence on foreign 5
energy sources and currency.
6 Jobs and employment -- you take away the 7
jobs at Indian Point, we will be suffering here. You 8
know, they pay one of the highest dollar per hour in 9
the area. And I can look around the room here today 10 and see how many people will be affected, how many 11 children will be affected. You talk about educating 12 your children and sending them to college, and making 13 a better life for them.
14 Jobs -- you know, I would be -- and I wish 15 the NRC would look at the diversity at Indian Point.
16 Are African-Americans getting their fair share of jobs 17 in Indian Point? So we should realize how fortunate 18 we are to have Indian Point, because it serves our 19 needs, not only our electrical needs but our 20 employment needs, taxes. Can you imagine how much 21 taxes would be in the area if we weren't being 22 subsidized by Indian Point?
23 Indian Point and nuclear power -- nuclear 24 power is one of the fastest-growing energy sources in 25 the world. Why do you think Switzerland is all 26
73 nuclear power? Why do you think France is all nuclear 1
power? Why do you think China, which is one of the 2
most pollutant countries in the world, is now with a 3
revolution to go towards nuclear? There's a reason.
4 It saves lives. It saves the environment. It saves 5
our future, our world. And, of course, we always --
6 we know about global warming and what is happening 7
with the greenhouse effect.
8 The Arctic Ocean now -- the Arctic is 9
depleting. We're having more floods in the coastal 10 area, because of global warming, and that's because of 11 more pollutants from coal. We have this plant over 12 here in Haverscroll that's just spitting out 13 pollutants, and Texans to come back across the river 14 to this area.
15 You know, I wish some of these groups 16 would go over there and tell them to shut down their 17 coal plant or at least get it into regulation or get 18 into requirements to help us all out.
19 So thank you for having us here, and I 20 hope the NRC does really take a look at all of those 21 areas, the health issues, the Homeland Security 22 issues, and come up and do a good job as far as 23 relicensing Indian Point, because we want it to be 24 safe.
25 (Applause.)
26
74 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Thank you.
1 MS. ROBERTS: Thank you for allowing us to 2
come and speak with you tonight. We are the Raging 3
Grannies and their friends of Westchester. We believe 4
in the saying that we don't own the Earth; we are only 5
borrowing it for our children.
6 We want to leave this area in good shape 7
for them. Now, you can ask us what it's like to get 8
old, and we can tell you. But there are some issues, 9
a lot of them.
10 We have pollution, we have leaks, we have 11 the chance of a terrorist attack, we have air quality, 12 we have its site, we have the fact that so many people 13 live so close, we have an evacuation plan that cannot 14 work.
15 So as grannies, because we know about what 16 happens when we get old, we believe that Indian Point 17 is too old, has too many problems to keep going. We 18 hope the NRC will be very careful with the world we 19 will leave to our kids and to our grandkids. And now 20 we'd like to sing a song that one of our grannies has 21 written about Indian Point. Thank you for your 22 tolerance.
23 PARTICIPANT: And we have copies for 24 anyone who would like to learn the lyrics.
25 (Whereupon, a song was sung by the Raging 26
75 Grannies. Sung to the tune of "My Bonnie 1
Lies Over the Ocean.")
2 RAGING GRANNIES SINGING: Thank you, NRC, 3
for this meeting, we know what you don't want to hear.
4 Don't dare to extend this plant's license by even as 5
much as one year. Yes, Entergy promises safety, but 6
sometimes their sirens don't blow. And strontium 7
leaks are polluting, so Indian Point has to go.
8 No nukes, no nukes, Indian Point has to go 9
right now. No nukes, no nukes, yes, Indian Point has 10 to go.
11 This plant is unsafe for employees, but we 12 don't want anyone fired. Retrain them for alternate 13 energy, and make sure that they get rehired. This 14 plant is a terrorist target, why not use much less 15 toxic fuels. Convert to a natural gas plant; secure 16 those nuclear waste pools.
17 No nukes, no nukes, Indian Point has to go 18 right now. No nukes, no nukes, yes, Indian Point has 19 to go.
20 Once Indian Point was reviewed by an 21 expert whose name was James Witt. He proved that 22 evacuation by Entergy's plan was worth... nada.
23 (Laughter.)
24 Thanks, NRC, for your attention, we're 25 glad that you all stayed awake. We care about our 26
76 environment; please care for others' sake.
1 (Applause.)
2 Shut it down, shut it down, Indian Point 3
is unsafe, we know. Shut it down, shut it down, 4
Indian Point has to go.
5 MS. ROBERTS: Thank you.
6 (Applause.)
7 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Very nice. Thank 8
you, ladies. I think this is the first time that 9
we're going to have lyrics read into a meeting for the 10 transcript.
11 (Laughter.)
12 MR. BARKLEY: All right. Maureen Ritter, 13 you get the pleasure of going after that act.
14 (Laughter.)
15 MS. RITTER: My name is Maureen Ritter.
16 I'm a resident of Rockland County, a mother of two 17 children, and a founding member of Friends United for 18 Sustainable Energy. And that was a tough act to 19 follow.
20 I come here tonight as a former member of 21 the Electrical Workers Union in Rockland County and a 22 current member of the Teachers Union. And my reason 23 for being here tonight, there are many things that are 24 being sited among -- which are several things that 25 fall out of the scope of the environmental siting.
26
77 I have two children who I feel, along with 1
the other children of the Hudson Valley, are very 2
vulnerable to the fallout that occurs from Indian 3
Point. I know that there is radiation released as a 4
normal functioning of the plant, and that these 5
releases used to be posted, which is now difficult 6
information to get.
7 But the NRC seems to, in my very unlegal 8
mind and very simple mind, seems to change the rules 9
to fit the relicensing of this plant and others. Very 10 frankly, this plant is my prime concern as opposed to 11 others across the nation, but I do feel it's time to 12 look beyond nuclear. I do feel that many of the 13 representatives of neighborhoods of color tonight, and 14 different organizations, have been sold in addition a 15 false set of goods.
16 I know that Entergy does pour a lot of 17 money into the communities, and I would like you to 18 examine your feelings on how you will feel when 19 Entergy wants to come in and set up maybe a nuclear 20 storage site in your community and see how you feel 21 about having that. I think what we're experiencing is 22 kind of reverse racism here. So I don't think that 23 you should buy this -- the bill of goods you're being 24 sold.
25 Just some other things that I think that 26
78 need to be looked at are the seismic issues, the fault 1
that runs under the plant, and which has been I think 2
entered into the record today, the security of the 3
spent fuel pools, the -- I do believe there has to be 4
eventual cancer studies that are done in the areas, 5
put that to rest, and, no, environmental groups do not 6
have the endless money that the industry and the 7
government has.
8 We need to depend on our government and 9
the NRC to conduct these studies. More sampling has 10 to take place of the bones of the wildlife surrounding 11 the plant. There are many issues to talk on that will 12 be entered into the record, but as a mother I -- just 13 coming here tonight, just like the gentleman who spoke 14 from Cortlandt Manor, that I don't want Indian Point 15 in my backyard.
16 I feel that you need to open up your -- I 17 think you need to open up other considerations when 18 reconsidering the relicensing. It's not something I 19 want until I'm 90.
20 Thank you.
21 (Applause.)
22 MR. BARKLEY: Our next three speakers --
23 Tom Johnson, the President of the Cortland Engine 24 Company, Ms. Kahn, and then, finally, Victor Tufur of 25 Riverkeeper. Tom, are you here? Okay, great.
26
79 MR. JOHNSON: Good evening. I want to 1
talk to you and share with you briefly why I came here 2
tonight. I'd like to thank the NRC for giving this 3
opportunity to talk about environmental impacts as 4
well as just the plant in general and what it means to 5
us in greater society here in the Hudson Valley.
6 I originally come from Long Island, and a 7
few people have -- one of my neighbors was talking 8
about the Shoreham plant. I lived in Culmac, which 9
was pretty far from it, but all of Long Island was 10 averse -- very adversely impacted by the mistakes and 11 the mishandling, weighing in by the fearmongers, of 12 what could happen in the worst-case scenarios.
13 And when I went to college in 1987, Long 14 Island was a vibrant place with rising home prices, a 15 beautiful place to raise a family. And what happened 16 in that four years, when I came home it was just a 17 different world. The State of New York and the 18 Governor at the time decided the best way to deal with 19 this would be to close the plant -- it was open for a 20 day -- and would raise everybody's rates seven percent 21 a year for 10 years. Now, any mathematician will tell 22 you that's about doubling your rates.
23 As soon as that deal was inked, the 24 largest employer on Long Island, which was in Nassau 25 County -- Grumman, Grumman made fighter planes and a 26
80 lot of our fleet in the military -- they looked at the 1
State and the Governor and said, "Sorry, we're out of 2
here."
3 So that didn't do too well for the 4
environment. And when I came home looking for a job 5
from college, all my father's friends were out of 6
work. And Long Island -- unemployment was high 7
nationally and real estate values were dropping 8
nationally. It was twice as bad on Long Island.
9 There was just no opportunity. You had to hit the 10 road. People were putting illegal basements --
11 illegal apartments in their basements to pay their 12 taxes. I mean, it was just not the thing to do.
13 I moved up here and a lot of my friends 14 would come up and visit me, and I would say, "Yes, you 15 know" -- they'd say, "What are your property taxes?"
16 and I'd say, "Well, they're this." They'd say, "Oh, 17 my God, we pay twice that." And I said, "Well, I have 18 a nuclear powerplant about two miles from my house, 19 and I'm not going to close it."
20 You see, it's more than just money. It's 21 more than just affordability. It's safety. I am a 22 volunteer firefighter with the Cortland Engine 23 Company. I moved up here, and I noticed a lot of 24 people in this community who are good, hardworking, 25 blue collar people, much like the area I grew up in.
26
81 And they can afford to live here, and, you know, in 1
Westchester County affordable housing is -- it's kind 2
of like jumbo shrimp. It doesn't -- you know, it's 3
one of those words that really doesn't mean anything.
4 But in our area, because of reasonable property taxes, 5
working class families can afford to live here and 6
raise a family and thrive here.
7 You know, Entergy has been very good to a 8
lot of people in the First Responders. Not just did 9
they help buy us equipment, equipment that was used at 10
-- that helped on 9/11, like a cascade system, but 11 they -- we train there on hazardous material training.
12 And when you realize that the hazard of what's going 13 on underneath that dome pales in comparison to most of 14 the environmental hazards that are out there, like 15 chlorine and mercury and all of these other things 16 that don't have a half-life, they live forever and 17 ever and ever and never go away.
18 The safeties that are at Indian Point are 19 not just looked over by the government. They're not 20 just looked over by the community. But the people who 21 work there live in this community.
22 One of the operators, one of the licensed 23 operators of that plant, is the Chief of the Verplank 24 Fire Department. They are first do if there's ever an 25 incident on that scene. They have a fire brigade 26
82 there. We all train together. They talk about 1
inadequate emergency response. Well, I could tell 2
you, we've trained there plenty of times. It's not 3
inadequate.
4 We've gone over a lot of different 5
details. We've gone through tabletops. We've looked 6
at a lot of different scenarios to protect the public.
7 The reality is the reaction that goes underneath that 8
dome -- and the good doctor was talking about it 9
earlier.
10 A lot of people didn't want to accept what 11 he had to say, but I can tell you this. I'm not a 12 scientist, but when I went to college I went for a 13 biochemistry degree. And a lot of things that are 14 done in that plant on a scale of one to -- you can't 15 compare a nuclear bomb to a nuclear plant. There's 16 just no basis of comparison. It's like comparing an 17 apple to a pineapple. Yes, they're both fruit, but 18 you wouldn't want to pick them both up and take a bite 19 out of them.
20 What goes on in that plant is so low 21 level, and the people that are around it, it's so low 22 level that if they go get an X-ray, they can't go to 23 work for two days because they'll set off all the 24 sensors. Now, what does that tell you? That there is 25 more radiation in a tobacco plant than there is in any 26
83 of the equipment that's at Indian Point, and people 1
smoke all the time.
2 What goes on there is not a public safety 3
hazard. It's a steam generator. Steam is generated 4
at 212 degrees Fahrenheit, not 20,000 degrees. The 5
reaction that is there is safe. Yes, there are some 6
environmental concerns, but you have to weigh out the 7
whole preponderance of the evidence and not focus on 8
this one leak or that one situation. You have to look 9
at the whole picture.
10 And when you look at the whole picture, 11 Indian Point is -- you know, people have worked there 12 their entire adult lives. They haven't gotten sick, 13 and they haven't died from working there. That speaks 14 a lot more volumes than what could be. Thirty-five 15 years is a pretty long test period for a health 16 situation. And if people can work there, union men, 17 carpenters, steamfitters, everybody, and they can 18 spend their entire life there, their entire working 19 career, and not get sick, then what are we talking 20 about?
21 You know, in the First Responders Corps 22 when we -- we gauge --
23 MR. BARKLEY: I'm going to have to ask you 24 to wrap up here.
25 MR. JOHNSON: I'm wrapping up in two -- in 26
84 less than a minute, in less than 30 seconds. We 1
gauge --
2 MR. BARKLEY: Less than 30 seconds.
3 MR. JOHNSON: We gauge health and safety 4
by sickness and death. Sickness and death at all the 5
nuclear powerplants combined is zero, and that's the 6
real number.
7 Thank you very much, and thank you for 8
listening.
9 (Applause.)
10 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Ms. Kahn?
11 MS. KAHN: Good evening. My name is Karen 12 Kahn. I've been a resident of Westchester my entire 13 life, and have lived in this area since 1973. My 14 concerns are, like everybody else's, to live in a 15 healthy environment.
16 The nuclear plant is a hot topic. It has 17 spewn or leaked contaminated material into bedrock, 18 which cannot be cleaned up, therefore leaving it a 19 site that's contaminated and half-lives, as we know, 20 forever.
21 Locally, it is also a concern for the 22 economic situation in the community. If the plant 23 were to move, it would definitely cause a lot of 24 financial hardship. I don't think anybody could 25 afford to live in this area.
26
85 That being said, we need to make a 1
reasonable alternative to place -- find a plant that 2
is in a less populated area, and make it economically 3
worthwhile to -- since this is a business proposition, 4
to place a plant in a less populated area, make it 5
economically advantageous for a company to invest in 6
transmission wires from a more isolated area, to 7
provide us with the electricity we need.
8 We need to keep ourselves safe. Nobody 9
here wants to have to move. We couldn't move in an 10 emergency. Let's find some economic way to put this 11 plant in a less populated area.
12 Thank you.
13 (Applause.)
14 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Victor?
15 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'm sorry. What was 16 the name, Rich?
17 MR. BARKLEY: Richard Tufur from 18 Riverkeeper. I don't think I saw Victor earlier.
19 Okay. Let me call another person.
20 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Do we -- yes, let's 21 go ahead, and then Victor can go after -- who do we 22 have up next?
23 MR. BARKLEY: Actually, a gentleman we 24 called earlier who wasn't available, Frank Fraley, 25 Mount Vernon Hospital Center.
26
86 MR. FRALEY: Good evening. My name is 1
Frank Fraley. I'm from Mount Vernon Hospital. I'm 2
the Vice President for Advancement. The hospital is 3
located in Mount Vernon, New York. Our core patient 4
population comes from the Mount Vernon area and the 5
surrounding communities, Yonkers, Bronx, New Rochelle.
6 Our hospital has many challenges, and we 7
are honored to be associated with Entergy. We 8
approached them many months ago and explained the need 9
for a new emergency department there at the hospital 10 in lower Westchester, and they were gracious and 11 stepped to the plate and helped us a great deal.
12 Our emergency department serves over 13 20,000 visits a year. It is the primary care for many 14 in that population, and the assistance of Entergy will 15 help us a great deal.
16 There's another reason why I'm here 17 tonight. The city of Mount Vernon is not unlike many 18 major cities, major mid-sized cities. It's the eighth 19 largest city in the State of New York. It has a great 20 deal of affluence, and scattered among it are deep 21 economic challenges.
22 Living in a modern city like that comes 23 with the opportunity -- many opportunities and many 24 conveniences. It also comes with significant health 25 care challenges. The city has multiple highways 26
87 running through it, alongside it. There's the Bronx 1
River Parkway, Hutchison River Parkway, Interstate 95, 2
Cross County Parkway, to name a few. And the city is 3
home to a very large industrial and manufacturing 4
population.
5 The region of this country has already 6
been recognized by the EPA as having some of the worst 7
air quality in the nation. It is, in fact -- it is a 8
fact that many suffer from it -- poor air quality, and 9
working -- our working relationship with the 10 institution, we treat many individuals in emergency 11 situations as a result of that poor air quality.
12 I can attest to the fact that asthma and 13 other respiratory illnesses are very real and a very 14 real result of fossil fuel sources. Without Indian 15 Point, many other fossil fuel sources in the region 16 would increase, as would the problems that I've 17 outlined in these areas.
18 I'm proud to be a representative of Mount 19 Vernon Hospital, and I'm proud to partner with this 20 fine corporation. Partnering with Entergy is the --
21 is in the best interest of the residents of Mount 22 Vernon, and in the best interest of the patients that 23 we serve.
24 Thank you very much.
25 (Applause.)
26
88 MR. BARKLEY: Thank you, sir.
1 One housekeeping item to go over.
2 Unfortunately, someone with New York license plate NY 3
22 is double-parked and is blocking some cars. So if 4
you have a vehicle with NY 22 for your license plate, 5
please move your car. Thanks very much.
6 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'd like to point 7
out that it's about 9:00, so we've got about an hour 8
left. I think that we may be able to get through the 9
number of yellow cards that we have left, so I'm going 10 to ask people, again, try to keep to the five minutes 11 or under rule, and that will allow everyone hopefully 12 to get up and speak that we have left.
13 Rich, can you give us the next couple of 14 people?
15 MR. BARKLEY: Yes. And we actually have 16 10 cards for 60 minutes.
17 Next two people, Margo Schepart of the 18 Westchester Citizens Awareness Network, and then 19 Marcia Gordon of the Business Council of Westchester.
20 MS. SCHEPART: Regarding relicensing, if 21 it is the NRC's role as regulators to protect public 22 safety, it really defies reason for them to hide 23 behind this toilet paper roll of regulations in order 24 to avoid considering the multitude of features 25 surrounding Indian Point that make it totally 26
89 unsuitable for relicensing.
1 We all know what they are -- the proximity 2
to New York, the population growth, no evacuation, the 3
history of mechanical problems, the unplugged leaking 4
of radiological materials, ongoing unknown health 5
effects, prime terrorist target. And it's very 6
frustrating that every question or objection that is 7
raised is always answered by, "Oh, that is -- that's 8
covered on page 980, Section 3, page 6, of our 9
rulebook, paragraph 6." It's frustrating.
10 However, if, in the interest of supporting 11 the nuclear industry, in fact the role of the NRC is 12 to follow the intricate series of regulations, which 13 will never lead to any conclusions that reflect 14 reality, then it makes sense for them to conduct 15 themselves the way that they do.
16 Patriotism was mentioned tonight. The 17 real patriotic thing for Americans to do is to use our 18 good American brains to figure out a way to change our 19 wasteful energy habits, to stop wasting what we have.
20 We waste about 40 percent of our energy, if not more.
21 To stop pouring billions of government dollars into 22 dangerous forms of energy, and to use our resources to 23 develop real, safe, clean energy that doesn't require 24 evacuation plans.
25 That's real, safe, clean energy. And to 26
90 work out the kinks of the alternate forms of power and 1
put the resources there and get some really good 2
results. The resources have not gone there. The 3
resources have gone into nuclear.
4 More nuclear reactors cannot halt climate 5
change. We would need 300 reactors in the United 6
States to make any impact, and reactors take a long 7
time to build -- seven to 10 years. Fossil fueled 8
vehicles, not electricity, are the biggest problem for 9
global warming.
10 Taking away the nuclear -- adding more 11 nuclear power is not going to reduce the fossil fuel 12 vehicle pollution that's adding to the asthma and 13 other things that are creating health problems in 14 communities. Nobody here wants filthy coal plants.
15 Nobody. That's silly to even talk about filthy coal 16 plants that nobody wants.
17 I've been coming to these meetings for a 18 really long time, and this is really my point I want 19 to make for the record. I've been coming to these 20 meetings for a really long time, but tonight I think, 21 with the statements of some of the speakers, I 22 witnessed a unique event in the history of nuclear 23 technology. I really think that as a result of some 24 of the statements of tonight's speakers that a new 25 radioactive isotope, in amounts clearly above 26
91 regulatory concern, has been released into the 1
environment. Bullshittium.
2 Thank you.
3 (Applause.)
4 MR. BARKLEY: All right. Again, Marcia 5
Gordon was called. Somebody was going to act and read 6
her statement in her absence. Sir, if you could give 7
us your name, please.
8 MR. LAWRENCE: Not a problem. Good 9
afternoon. I'm sorry, good evening, been here for a 10 while. I'm Laurent Lawrence. I'm Executive Director 11 of the New York Affordable Reliable Electricity Lines.
12 I'm reading on behalf of our member, the Westchester 13 Business Council, and I'll just go ahead and read 14 this.
15 The Westchester Business -- the Business 16 Council of Westchester is the county's largest 17 business organization, representing nearly 1,400 18 members ranging in size from multi-national 19 corporations and mid-sized business to professional 20 firms, not-for-profit organizations, and small 21 business owners in every sector of the county's 22 diverse economy.
23 The Business Council of Westchester 24 advocates for Westchester's business community at a 25 local, state, and federal level, and works to enhance 26
92 economic opportunity in Westchester by addressing a 1
broad range of public affairs and area development, 2
economic, and business development issues that affect 3
the growth and -- the growth of business in the 4
community.
5 With 34,000 businesses in Westchester 6
County, employing over 400,000 -- I'm sorry, 408,700 7
workers with a total annual payroll of more than 8
$19 billion, we feel the permanent closure of the 9
Indian Point Energy Center will cause irreparable 10 damage to the regional economy due to the large amount 11 of electricity, jobs, and tax -- that the site 12 provides.
13 From Indian Point's generation of 2,000 14 megawatts of much-needed electricity to its 15 distribution of 356 million in payroll and local 16 purchases to the over 50,000 -- $50 million paid in 17 local taxes, including sales tax, payroll tax, 18 property tax, and state and local income tax, the site 19 is a major economic engine that drives business to 20 Westchester County and keeps business from running to 21 other counties across the country.
22 We have been the economic -- we have been 23 the economic devastation -- we have seen -- I'm sorry.
24 We have seen the economic devastation caused by the 25 dramatic disruption of electricity supply both in 26
93 recent memory -- the blackout of 2003 -- as well as 1
the continued hardship faced by thousands of Long 2
Island residents who pay some of the highest utility 3
bills in the United States because of the infamous 4
Shoreham nuclear plant debacle.
5 Shoreham was a clear example of the needs 6
of the few outweighing the ongoing needs of the many, 7
and the Council does not wish to see Indian Point, to 8
the residents running the facility, suffer the same 9
fate.
10 In addition, as owner and operator of 11 Indian Point, the Entergy corporation remains a 12 critical major employer and corporate philanthropist, 13 donating millions of dollars to a myriad of worthy 14 causes -- hospitals, educational institutions, 15 regional associations, and municipalities.
16 Without their continuing service to the 17 community, the vital investments in nonprofit programs 18 and projects, we will see a dramatic decrease in the 19 number of non-governmental groups and associations 20 serving a wide variety of constituents -- hungry, 21 homeless, elderly, children in need, sick, infirmed, 22 etcetera.
23 For the aforementioned reasons, the 24 Business Council of Westchester hereby supports the 25 petition for the relicensing of the Indian Point 26
94 Energy Center. We look forward to the hearing from --
1 we look forward to hearing from you regarding this 2
matter.
3 Sincerely, Marcia Gordon, President, The 4
Business Council of Westchester.
5 Thank you very much.
6 (Applause.)
7 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Sir, did we get a 8
copy of that, so we could include it? Okay. Thank 9
you.
10 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Our next three 11 speakers Tom Klein of the Boilermakers 12 Local Number 5 --
13 (Applause.)
14 Very good. Secondly, I understood a 15 statement was going to be read on behalf of Katie 16 Dunlap of Clearwater, and then, finally, Doris 17 Mandolero of the Rockland County Conservation 18 Association.
19 So, Tom, do you want to come up?
20 MR. KLEIN: Good evening. My name is Tom 21 Klein. I represent Boilermakers Local 5. We cover a 22 jurisdiction from Kingston, New York, to New York City 23 and Long Island. We work in the powerplants. What we 24 do is we built from new construction, we do 25 maintenance work, and we do emergency repair work.
26
95 I really don't have too much prepared for 1
tonight for this speech, but what I'd like to mention 2
is that Indian Point is the safest and cleanest plant 3
we work in, that all of the other powerhouses that 4
we've been in are much more pollutant type and that --
5 no, I haven't heard anyone mention tonight about the 6
plant that's right next door, Charles Point -- it's a 7
garbage burner. And I don't see where that's, as a 8
pollutant -- I'm sorry, I think there's more pollution 9
from that plant than comes from Indian Point.
10 I know the restrictions are different, but 11 I think that the scrutiny should be both the same on 12 them both.
13 Thank you.
14 (Applause.)
15 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. I believe you --
16 MS. MADRONERO: (Inaudible comment from an 17 unmiked location.)
18 MR. BARKLEY: All right. We'll pass on 19 that, then. Doris Mandolero.
20 MS. MADRONERO: Close.
21 MR. BARKLEY: Mandolero?
22 MS. MADRONERO: Dorice.
23 MR. BARKLEY: Dorice.
24 MS. MADRONERO: Madronero.
25 MR. BARKLEY: All right.
26
96 MS. MADRONERO: Good evening, and thank 1
you for the opportunity to speak. I'm with the 2
Rockland County Conservation Association, one of those 3
very ill-funded organizations. We're all volunteers, 4
founded in 1930.
5 Before I read the comment, I just have an 6
observation. In a de-regulated electricity market, 7
I'm wondering, with all these subsidies that we're 8
hearing about going to the community, we understand 9
that the government has great subsidies going to the 10 nuclear industry, and I wonder how that is affected 11 and what the considerations are in a free trade open 12 commerce market, what the implications are, where 13 these great subsidies are going, and why the nuclear 14 industry seems to be getting a leg up.
15 Further, the money that we hear being 16 passed through offered to the communities to willing 17 takers, I wonder, is this money that is just being 18 passed through from government subsidies than then 19 Entergy can come out looking like the great community 20 hero, actually using federal funding. That's 21 something I would hope that someone is going to pursue 22 the financial implications of a free trade, 23 deregulated electricity market where there is fair and 24 balanced commerce.
25 The Rockland County Conservation 26
97 Association has opposed Indian Point facilities since 1
Indian 1 was first proposed. Throughout the years of 2
reviews and assurances of compliance and safety, our 3
confidence in the safety of this facility has been 4
greatly challenged by radioactive leaks, personnel 5
literally sleeping at the switch, and failed promises 6
to meet deadlines of a fully functioning siren system.
7 Now, we were called upon again to believe 8
that all is safe and well with a facility that is 9
leaking strontium-90 and tritium and has unplanned 10 shutdowns -- otherwise, I guess accidents.
11 As recent as September 11, 2007, The 12 Journal News reported "Feds suspend inspection at 13 Indian Point." The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has 14 suspended an inspection at Indian Point 3 after 15 federal experts found plant officials unprepared to 16 answer questions about a series of unplanned shutdowns 17 that led the agency to lower the reactor's safety 18 rating in April.
19 "They just didn't have the documentation 20 we needed," said NRC regional spokesman Neil Sheehan, 21 noting that "such suspensions are rare, but also the 22 types of questions we were asking they did not have 23 the answers for at this point." Again, public 24 confidence for the safety of this facility is 25 marginalized.
26
98
- Further, the article reports Kathy 1
McMullin, an Indian Point spokeswoman, said the matter 2
was "really much ado about nothing" and wouldn't have 3
reached the level of public notification without the 4
current regulatory climate surrounding the plant. So 5
she is getting a little Shakespearean on us.
6 In this particular environment, the NRC --
7 or the abundance of caution side, as we have done on 8
issues that on their face may not seem all that 9
significant, she said, "It's not necessarily routine 10 that an inspection would be postponed, but it's not 11 that unusual either."
12 So we are to understand that the NRC has 13 made an error in judgment, and that the postponement 14 of an inspection because the operator of a nuclear 15 facility was unprepared to answer questions about the 16 operation of its own facility would not have been 17 revealed if it were not for the regulatory climate 18 surrounding the plant.
19 Does this infer "out of sight out of mind" 20 is an acceptable position for a nuclear facility 21 operator? The residents in the Hudson Valley have 22 just been advised of the FAA's decision to increase 23 air traffic in the region. Rockland County residents 24 were not advised until just a few weeks before the 25 closing period.
26
99 Were the FAA -- okay. Where there were 1
few to no aircraft flying over Rockland County, we can 2
now expect up to 600 flights per day, increasing the 3
noise level. On average, every two to three minutes, 4
the noise of aircraft flying overhead will be heard.
5 Entergy's environmental review reports no foreseeable 6
related federal projects were identified.
7 As the FAA redesigned project is a federal 8
project, we ask that the effect of the background 9
noise of increased air traffic might have -- what it 10 might have on the efficacy of the emergency alert 11 system. Specifically, was the system designed to be 12 heard over the increased noise coming from the 13 increased noise levels of the projected air traffic in 14 Rockland County? That is a federal project that's 15 approved.
16 And then, the other one is we have a 17 desalination plant that has been proposed by United 18 Water New York that will be placed either in Stony 19 Point or Haverscroll, exact location yet to be 20 determined. And we ask that, although it doesn't 21 exist now, that it be considered in the review process 22 because that is intended to be drinking water for over 23 260,000 people.
24 Additionally, if at this point you suggest 25 it's not appropriate, if it's not built, when it is 26
100 built, if it is built, we would ask that there be some 1
caveat in the system that would require an assessment 2
of the impacts of this fugitive leakage of strontium-3 90 and tritium and other radionuclides that are in the 4
Hudson River, and what the impacts would be, because 5
the ratepayers of United Water certainly should not be 6
paying for the reclamation of radionuclides coming 7
from -- potentially coming from Indian Point 2 or 3.
8 Thank you.
9 MR. BARKLEY: Thank you.
10 (Applause.)
11 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I just wanted to 12 make one comment. I had a gentleman pull me aside and 13 he had already spoken, and he asked if it was okay 14 that he would write something down to be included into 15 the transcript, and that's definitely allowed. You 16 can definitely do that.
17 So if you're sitting in the audience and 18 you don't want to speak, or you've already spoken, or 19 you just come up with an idea and you want to jot it 20 down, we will include that as part of the transcript, 21 just like we're doing with any of the statements that 22 people are reading that they are submitting as written 23 comments as well.
24 So I just wanted to get that out there.
25 Rich, who is next?
26
101 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Al Samuels of 1
Rockland Business Alliance is first, followed by Bob 2
Seeger, the No Rights in Machinery Erectors Local 3
1740, and then, finally, Patrick Canino of NYPIRG.
4 Mr. Samuels?
5 PARTICIPANT: Thanks, Rich. I am not Mr.
6 Samuels.
7 MR. BARKLEY: All right. You are speaking 8
on behalf of him.
9 PARTICIPANT: Al is up in Albany this 10 evening for a New York State Business Council event, 11 but he asked me to read his statement into the record.
12 The Rockland Business Association is the 13 county's largest business organization, representing 14 991 corporate, mid-sized, and small businesses. We 15 are the advocates for Rockland's business community at 16 the local, state, and federal levels, and work to 17 enhance economic opportunities in Rockland by 18 addressing a broad range of public affairs and area 19 development, economic and business development issues 20 that affect the growth of business in the county.
21 Recently, the Business Council of New York 22 State, of which the RBA is a member, surveyed almost 23 1,100 council members to identify top priorities for 24 action in 2007. These members ranked the cost of 25 doing business as their greatest concern in New York, 26
102 with a special focus on energy costs. Electric rates 1
in New York run 70 percent above the national average, 2
and there is a clear need for more generating capacity 3
to keep cost down, as well as a great demand to direct 4
low cost power to employers and growth industries 5
throughout the state.
6 Given this business climate of an ever-7 increasing demand for affordable, reliable, and 8
environmentally sound power generation, the RBA 9
believes the closure of Indian Point Energy Center 10 would create a dramatically adverse effect on the 11 state's energy grid and impose undue hardship upon 12 thousands of businesses and millions of residents 13 throughout the state.
14 Indian Point generates 2,000 megawatts of 15 critical electricity, over $356 million in payroll and 16 local purchases, in addition to over $50 million paid 17 in local taxes. Overall, Indian Point produces over 18
$700 million in economic activity through the five 19 counties surrounding the site, as well as over a 20 billion dollars in economic activity in New York 21 State.
22 For these reasons, we believe the facility 23 should be relicensed. Having stated the above, we 24 feel we would be remiss to not acknowledge that there 25 are those in our community who oppose this action.
26
103 While we sympathize with their concerns, we note that 1
Entergy has an ongoing program to address safety -- to 2
address issues of safety and potential terrorist 3
threat. We encourage the company to maintain those 4
efforts in the most aggressive manner.
5 Sincerely, Al Samuels, President, Rockland 6
Business Association.
7 (Applause.)
8 MS. SCHEPART: And we have -- and for him 9
to speak on our behalf, there was never a vote for the 10 Rockland Business Association. That's his personal 11 statement. Let the record show that.
12 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Okay. Let the 13 record show that that was his own personal statement.
14 Rich, who do we have next?
15 MR. BARKLEY: Bob Seeger. There we go.
16 MR. SEEGER: Good evening. My name is Bob 17 Seeger. I'm the Business Manager from 18 Millwright Local 740. We are the group of people that 19 does the steam turbines and generators that create the 20 lights that are now blinding me.
21 The first thing I'd like to say is that 22 I'm not a shell for anyone. I get no money from 23 Entergy. It costs me money to belong to New York 24 Area. I happen to believe in nuclear power, and I 25 also believe in what New York Area does, and they are 26
104 not just limited to Indian Point.
1 They are a diverse group of people that 2
are interested in an energy plan for New York State, 3
one that differs quite a bit with the Governor's. I 4
don't have a prepared statement. I don't know how 5
people find the time to have one. But I did make some 6
notes listening to people.
7 I would like to thank the NRC for the 8
opportunity to come up here and speak. With regard to 9
Indian Point closing -- and I'll get this out of the 10 way real quick -- yes, my members get jobs from Indian 11 Point. They get paid very good salaries for working 12 at Indian Point for approximately 43 days out of every 13 year. Then, they go on to another powerhouse that 14 we've probably built and do the maintenance on.
15 If Indian Point was closed, I would 16 probably get more work out of it, because they'd have 17 to build powerhouses to replace the 2,000 megawatts of 18 power that come from there.
19 I have worked in Indian Point myself for 20 the first 28 years. I worked -- the first time I 21 worked at Indian Point was as an apprentice in 1972.
22 Because of my size and the fact that I used to be 40 23 pounds smaller, I could get into areas in those 24 machines that other people couldn't get into, which 25 meant I was right in the middle of the steam path.
26
105 I get a physical every year. So far, they 1
tell me that I am perfect physical condition, other 2
than the ice cream that I eat.
3 I think there's a great many 4
misconceptions about Indian Point and about nuclear 5
power. And I sit here and I sit in the back of the 6
room, and I watch people that look like they're ready 7
to leap at somebody that should speak positively about 8
nuclear power. It's a very emotional issue, and I 9
don't that emotions are going to get the job done.
10 And I'm sure that the NRC is going to see, on an 11 unemotional level, that Indian Point is necessary.
12 With regards to the environment, I don't 13 think that it's just the air and the water that you 14 have to be concerned with. If you take a look at part 15 of the environment -- I think it's if you walk down 16 the street, and take a look at the businesses that are 17 supported by Indian Point, there is a delicatessen on 18 the corner of Bleakley Avenue and 9A that has been 19 there since the first time I came up here in 1972.
20 I'm willing to bet that if you close 21 Indian Point you will close that delicatessen and 22 several of the other businesses that are around the 23 area -- machine shops, bars, restaurants, diners, that 24 get the majority of their funding from the businesses 25 that work with Entergy.
26
106 I've heard some pretty, I think, careless 1
statements about what go on -- goes on in Indian Point 2
as far as it being safe. I've stated here once before 3
that the members of my local are like family to me, 4
and I wouldn't put my family in an unsafe environment 5
to work. To say that that place is an unsafe place to 6
work is to tell several hundred people that work there 7
on a daily basis that they are suicidal.
8 There are many families that have been 9
born and raised throughout that plant. I've seen many 10 women in that plant that were pregnant, carried their 11 kids to term, and have very healthy children, that 12 have gone to college, all from that one plant.
13 With regards to the coal-fired plants that 14 are on the other side of the river that we also work 15 in, there is a plant for those plants over there. And 16 the plan is to close them down by the end of this 17 year. And if you think that's a positive thing, try 18 and think of where you're going to get the lights, 19 where are you going to get the electric, because the 20 same thing will happen over here. And as hot as this 21 room was when we first started this meeting, I'm sure 22 everybody appreciates the fact that there's electric.
23 I came up here because I'm part of the 24 building trades of Westchester County and New York 25 City. I'm also a resident of Dutchess County that 26
107 lives 19 miles from here. I would just like to see 1
the conversation and the dialogue take a little bit of 2
a different turn where people talk level-headed, 3
unemotional, and about the facts.
4 Thank you for the time.
5 (Applause.)
6 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Thank you, Bob.
7 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: By my watch, we're 8
coming up on 9:30. I'd like to thank everyone who has 9
stuck it out to this point. We're going to try to get 10 through -- how many more speakers, Rich?
11 MR. BARKLEY: Five.
12 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Fire more speakers.
13 So hopefully we can get through those within, you 14 know, five minutes apiece or less, and get out of here 15 on time, if not maybe even a little early.
16 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Patrick Canino, 17 NYPIRG?
18 MR. CANINO: Good evening. My name is 19 Patrick Canino. I'm a member of NYPIRG, and a student 20 at SUNY New Palz. I'm within 30 miles of Indian 21 Point.
22 In the NRC's review of Indian Point, they 23 must include the safety and security issues facing us 24 today. They must use data from 2007, not the data or 25 analysis taken from 30 years ago. The population, 26
108 density, and political climate of 30 years ago has 1
changed dramatically, and the Review Board must 2
address these changes before considering the relicense 3
of this plant with such an abysmal safety record.
4 I hope the Review Board takes all of these 5
things into consideration and makes the proper choice.
6 Thank you.
7 (Applause.)
8 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you.
9 Rich, do you want to give us the next 10 speaker?
11 MR. BARKLEY: Yes. The next two, Barbara 12 Homyk with Entergy and Phillip Banks with One Hundred 13 Black Men. Barbara?
14 MS. HOMYK: I'd like to thank the NRC for 15 letting me speak. My name is Barbara Homyk. I'm a 16 Chemistry Specialist at Indian Point.
17 And in response to what I've heard here 18 tonight, I just had a couple of comments. First of 19 all, it seems as though -- the way people talk, it 20 sounds as though we spend lots of time with the NRC 21 and that we're buddies. Well, that isn't exactly the 22 way, at least for people at my level. The NRC is 23 there to regulate us. They set the rules for us, and 24 it's not like we're friends. We do what they tell us, 25 and we respect their judgment. So I'm hoping the NRC 26
109 will give us a fair, reasonable evaluation.
1 My other comment is that I'm a mother, and 2
I've heard other people say things about being mothers 3
in the area. I was a chemistry supervisor at Indian 4
Point. I actually oversaw the radiochemical analysis 5
when I was pregnant with my older son. I was at the 6
plant up until I was eight months pregnant, and that 7
baby is now going to be graduating in May with Honors 8
from Georgetown University. So it's not all bad.
9 We are careful with what we do. We know 10 we have some problems. We're working hard to solve 11 them, and hopefully this relicensing will come about.
12 And I just wanted to say that I support relicensing at 13 Indian Point as a proud employee of Entergy.
14 Thank you.
15 (Applause.)
16 MR. BARKLEY: Phillip?
17 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Sir, if you could 18 just introduce yourself again once you get to the 19 podium.
20 MR. GREEN: Hi. I'm David Green, and I'm 21 reading the record -- reading the statement of Phillip 22 Banks for the record.
23 I am Phillip Banks, President of One 24 Hundred Black Men. One Hundred Black Men is an 25 international organization founded in New York when a 26
110 group of concerned African-American men began to meet 1
to explore ways of improving conditions of their 2
community.
3 The group eventually adopted the name One 4
Hundred Black Men as a sign of solidarity. These men 5
envisioned an organization that would implement 6
programs designed to improve the quality of life for 7
African-Americans and other minorities. Our founders 8
were successful black men from various walks of life.
9 In 1963, the first meeting of the One 10 Hundred Black Men, Incorporated, was held in New York 11 City. A group of successful businessmen from a 12 variety of social, educational, and economic sectors 13 came together for a common purpose of making a 14 difference in African-American communities, by making 15 a difference in the lives of African-American youth.
16 The idea quickly caught on, and soon 17 independent chapters began forming across the nation, 18 until 1986 when nine individual chapters joined 19 together to create the alliance known today as the One 20 Hundred Black Men of America, Incorporated. Now some 21 73 chapters and 10,000 members strong and still 22 growing, One Hundred Black Men remains committed to 23 its founding mission to improve the quality of life in 24 African-American communities by improving the 25 educational, economic, and social status of African-26
111 Americans across the entire nation.
1 The One Hundred Black Men of New York's 2
commitment to improving the lives of African-Americans 3
has been demonstrated with the creation of Eagle 4
Academy for Young Men. The school is based upon a 5
strong academic foundation with a focus on pillars of 6
character that we believe will provide the backdrop 7
for the success of these young men.
8 Each of the students at the Eagle Academy 9
is provided with an adult male mentor for their four-10 year stint in high school. Founded in 2004, the 11 school consistently demonstrates a high level of 12 achievement that is a reflection of the high 13 educational standards encouraged by One Hundred Black 14 Men of America.
15 Beginning in the fall of 2007, the Eagle 16 Academy will permanently expand its scope to operate 17 as a full four-year public high school, graduating its 18 first class in the spring of 2008. As we move 19 forward, we are expanding this model with plans to 20 replicate the school throughout New York City. In 21 keeping with our mission of improving the quality of 22 life for African-Americans, we often partner with 23 corporate entities that are supportive of our goals.
24 Entergy Nuclear Northeast has been an 25 ardent supporter of our initiatives. Entergy has 26
112 provided us with support that will enable us to 1
provide opportunities for educating -- for education 2
mentoring, and small business expansion, and 3
development throughout the New York metropolitan area.
4 We understand that Entergy is committed to 5
improving the health, social, and economic conditions 6
of communities of color by providing safe, affordable, 7
reliable, and clean energy. Rising energy costs 8
affect all communities across the U.S. and especially 9
New York, which has some of the nation's highest 10 energy bills. The cost of residential and 11 transportation energy represent even larger shares of 12 household expenditures for minority citizens.
13 The poorest and most vulnerable families 14 are being hit the hardest by energy cost increases.
15 The high energy costs also impact small and minority 16 businesses and provide barriers for those who want to 17 go into business. A recent August 12th New York Times 18 article highlight a recent Census report indicates a 19 disturbing trend of African-Americans moving out of 20 the New York area. This great exodus of working and 21 middle class African-Americans is due in part to the 22 growing housing costs -- costs coupled with increased 23 energy costs, making home ownership unattainable.
24 These factors negatively contribute to the 25 quality of life for many African-Americans in New 26
113 York. The One Hundred Black Men supports the creation 1
and distribution of safe, affordable, reliable, and 2
clean energy for not only our communities but the 3
greater community that is New York. We believe that 4
Entergy is a good corporate citizen, and we support 5
any efforts to balance the delivery of safe energy 6
with initiatives that will soften the burden of these 7
costs on our communities and the environment.
8 Thank you.
9 (Applause.)
10 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. The final two 11 speakers we have signed up are -- this is difficult to 12 read, Amanda Sistein, I believe it is, with NYPIRG, 13 and Noiva Butler with Entergy. Amanda? Sorry I 14 butchered that name.
15 MS. SISENSTEIN: Hi. My name is Amanda 16 Sisenstein with NYPIRG, the New York Public Interest 17 Research Group. I'm a Project Coordinator at the SUNY 18 New Palz campus.
19 NYPIRG is calling for an extension of the 20 public comment period by at least 60 days due to the 21 numerous safety issues surrounding Indian Point, 22 including unplanned shutdowns due to emergencies, 23 spent fuel rod pool leaks, a complete lack of a 24 functional evacuation plan, and, you know, system 25 failures, and, you know, all of the other things that 26
114 we've been talking about and hearing about all night 1
long.
2 These are really, really, very, very 3
significant concerns for not just people in the 4
immediate areas but people as far away as New Palz who 5
are still in the peak injury zone. So they really, 6
really need time to express these concerns and provide 7
meaningful comments. So again, please, you know, to 8
extend the public comment period by at least 60 days.
9 The NRC should also expand its scope of 10 issues beyond, you know, non-moving parts, and the 11 review should also reflect what is happening now, the 12 realities that we're facing now and not those of some 13 time ago. The plant, if it is to be relicensed, we 14 really need to see a fair and accurate review, 15 including, you know, all of the problems that are 16 dealing with right now, and the potential of the 17 problems in the future.
18 So, you know, thank you very much for 19 having this and allowing people to speak, but, you 20 know, please do extend that public comment period.
21 This is a very serious issue for people from many 22 surrounding counties, and some who maybe couldn't make 23 it. I mean, we came from about an hour and a half 24 away, and, well, we got a little bit lost on the way.
25 So there's -- you know, for everybody who 26
115 is here, there is hundreds of people who couldn't be 1
but would have liked to be. So please keep that in 2
mind.
3 Thank you.
4 (Applause.)
5 MR. BARKLEY: Noiva?
6 MS. BUTLER: Yes.
7 MR. BARKLEY: There you go.
8 MS. BUTLER: Good evening. My name is 9
Noiva Butler, and I'm a proud employee of Entergy.
10 I'd like to read a statement to keep 11 Indian Point operating. We, the undersigned, 12 respectfully request that you renew the license for 13 Indian Point for another 20 years of safe, reliable, 14 and environmentally clean operation. As employees and 15 supporters of Indian Point, we know that nuclear power 16 remains one of the most affordable and predictable 17 sources of energy for our region and our country.
18 There are no viable alternatives to the 19 2,000 megawatts of power generated by Indian Point 20 that provides electricity to power our homes, our 21 railroads, our airport, and our business. Entergy has 22 invested hundreds of millions of dollars in equipment 23 upgrades and security enhancement and training to 24 ensure that the plant can operate safely for many 25 years.
26
116 Thank you. And I encourage you to sign 1
our petition. Thank you.
2 (Applause.)
3 MR. BARKLEY: All right. Due to an error 4
on my part, I had missed Judy Allen of IPSEC to speak.
5 Please come up, Judy.
6 MS. ALLEN: My name is Judy Allen from 7
Putnam Valley, member at large of IPSEC and a mother, 8
and thank you very much to the NRC for providing this 9
opportunity to bring to your attention the 10 environmental impacts of continued plant operation.
11 The purpose of this hearing is to make the 12 public aware of what the NRC includes in your 13 environmental considerations for relicensing Indian 14 Point for another 20 years, and what the public 15 stakeholders think about these standards. In a few 16 words, your standards are inadequate.
17 The first big question is: what on earth 18 that happens at Indian Point would be beyond the scope 19 of having potential impact on the environment? Are 20 the ongoing leaks that migrate to the Hudson not an 21 environmental issue? Would a terrorist attack not be 22 a potential environmental issue?
23 Are overfilled spent fuel pools that were 24 never intended for long-term storage not a potential 25 environmental issue? Is the corrosion of underground 26
117 piping that transports radioactive steam, which was 1
not supposed to be radioactive, not an environmental 2
issue? Is the vast amount of inaccessible underground 3
piping that carries saltwater and irradiated water not 4
a potential environmental issue?
5 Please, tell us what issues that involve 6
Indian Point and the potential release of any 7
radioactivity are not environmental issues.
8 You see to approach nuclear issues from 9
the perspective of the low probabilities of release, 10 but the probability is not zero. When you think of 11 low probability, please, see the image of former 12 Governor Pataki standing at a podium in August 2003 13 with a huge regional blackout on his hands. He said, 14 "The experts told me this couldn't happen again."
15 Any business that includes humans and 16 machinery can have human error and mechanical 17 malfunctions. And when radioactivity is involved, all 18 elements are an environmental issue.
19 Thank you very much.
20 (Applause.)
21 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Rich, is that the 22 last card that we have from --
23 MR. BARKLEY: That is the last one that 24 officially signed up for this evening? Is there 25 anybody else --
26
118 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Okay.
1 MR. BARKLEY: -- who wanted to speak this 2
evening that had not signed on a card?
3 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I think we wanted to 4
open the floor up, if you haven't had a chance to 5
speak at the afternoon or the evening.
6 MR. RICHARDS: Thank you. I got here a 7
little late. I wasn't quite sure the protocol of how 8
to speak.
9 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: That's okay. If you 10 could give us your name and any affiliation if you 11 have --
12 MR. RICHARDS: My name is Paul Richards.
13 I've been a resident of Rockland County for 36 years, 14 and I wish to speak specifically to the second item on 15 the screen. What local environmental aspects should 16 the NRC examine?
17 More than 25 years ago, I participated in 18 the hearings in Bethesda on the first round when it 19 was -- Conn Ed and New York State Power Agency were 20 the operators. And at that time, a major issue was 21 the seismic hazard, and that's what I wish to comment 22 on.
23 I have been a president of the main 24 Professional Society of Earthquake Seismologists in 25 the United States, and I am currently on the Board of 26
119 Directors of the Seismological Society of America.
1 And in the first round, with Conn Ed and New York 2
State Power Authority, three Commissioners 3
participated in those hearings, and they actually 4
voted two to one. They split on the seismic issues.
5 One Commissioner, the one of the three who -- who 6
voted as he did, considered the capability of the 7
Ramapo Fault sufficiently serious to give him that 8
vote.
9 So the issue for us today is: what have 10 we learned in the 25 more or so years since those 11 hearings? And there's a huge amount that has been 12 learned, and the specific issue to focus on is: what 13 is the likelihood of Indian Point 2 and 3 being 14 exposed to ground shaking in their extended lifetime, 15 if that's what is to be decided, greater than they 16 have been designed to withstand?
17 Get that wrong, and, of course, the issue 18 is not how to -- does a nuclear powerplant function in 19 comparison with the fossil fuel plant when they're 20 both operating fairly well. We have heard quite a lot 21 of speakers address that issue, but the issue is what 22 potentially can happen if something goes seriously 23 wrong.
24 Thank you.
25 (Applause.)
26
120 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Is there anyone else 1
who didn't get a chance to speak at either of the 2
meetings that would like to have the floor? One last 3
chance.
4 (No response.)
5 Okay. Given that we only have a short 6
amount of time, and no other speakers that haven't had 7
a chance to speak, I'm going to go ahead and turn the 8
meeting over to Rani Franovich, so she can close the 9
meeting.
10 Rani?
11 MS. FRANOVICH: Thank you, Lance. I'm 12 Rani Franovich. I am the Branch Chief of the 13 Headquarters Office in Rockville, Maryland, that is 14 doing the review for the license renewal application 15 for Indian Point Units 2 and 3.
16 And I just want to thank you all for 17 coming to this meeting this evening. This opportunity 18 that we have to engage with the public and hear 19 directly from members of the public those issues that 20 they think need to be considered by the NRC during our 21 environmental review are a really good time for us to 22 get some good input. We've gotten quite a bit of that 23 today. So I appreciate your willingness to be at the 24 meetings today.
25 I wanted to remind everybody that we will 26
121 be receiving comments on the scope of the 1
environmental review until October 12th, and also the 2
opportunity to request a hearing has been extended to 3
November 30th.
4 I also wanted to reiterate a point that 5
Lance made when we opened up the meeting, that there 6
are public feedback -- public meeting feedback forms 7
that are located out in the lobby at the registration 8
desk. If you can think of any way we can improve our 9
public meetings, anything we could do differently, 10 anything that we're doing that works well, that you 11 want to let us know about, we'd appreciate that 12 feedback.
13 Feel free to fill out a form, leave it 14 with a member of the NRC staff, or, if you prefer, 15 take it home, think about it, and fill it out, fold it 16 up, and put in the mail. The postage is prepaid.
17 And with that, thank you very much for 18 coming to our meeting tonight.
19 (Applause.)
20 (Whereupon, at 9:46 p.m., the proceedings 21 in the foregoing matter were concluded.)
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