ML072890209

Transcript of Indian Point License Renewal Public Meeting: Evening Session, September 19, 2007, Pages 1-126

ML072890209
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Issue date:	09/19/2007
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Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSIONTitle:Indian Point License Renewal Public Meeting: Evening SessionDocket Number:50-247 50-286Location:Courtlandt Manor, New York Date:Wednesday, September 19, 2007Work Order No.:NRC-1775Pages 1-126 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2+ + + + +3 MEETING TO DISCUSS THE ENVIRONMENTAL 4 SCOPING PROCESS FOR INDIAN POINT NUCLEAR 5 GENERATING UNIT NOS. 2 AND 3, 6 LICENSE RENEWAL APPLICATIONS 7+ + + + +8 WEDNESDAY, 9 SEPTEMBER 19, 2007 10+ + + + +11 12The meeting came to order at 7:00 p.m. in 13The Colonial Terrace, 119 Oregon Road, Cortlandt 14Manor, New York, Lance Rakovan, Facilitator, 15 presiding.

16 17 PRESENT: 18 LANCE RAKOVAN, NRC 19 RICH BARKLEY, NRC 20 RANI FRANOVICH, NRC 21 BO PHAM, NRC 22 23 24 25 26 2 TABLE OF CONTENTS 1 PAGE 2I.Welcome and Purpose of Meeting3 3II.Overview of License Renewal and 4Environmental Review Process7 5III.Public Comments24 6IV.Closing Comments125 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 3 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1 (7:05 p.m.)

2FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: If everyone would be 3 seated, we'd like to get things started.

4Good evening. My name is Lance Rakovan.

5I am a Communications Assistant at the Nuclear 6Regulatory Commission, or NRC. It's my privilege to 7facilitate tonight's meeting. The purpose of the 8meeting tonight is to receive your comments as to what 9environmental issues the NRC should consider during 10the review of Indian Point's license renewal 11 application.

12Before we get things started, I wanted to 13take a few moments to go through what to expect 14tonight, lay down a couple ground rules, and just kind 15 of get things started in general.

16First of all, the agenda for tonight's 17evening is we're going to have a quick presentation.

18Well, I hadn't gotten to the point that I was going to 19 ask you to turn your cell phones off, but --

20 (Laughter.)

21-- I might as well use that opportunity.

22If everyone could please silence your cell phones, put 23them on vibrate or turn them off, that will help 24moments like that from occurring through the rest of 25 the meeting. Thank you.

26 4Tonight's agenda -- as I was saying, we're 1going to have a brief presentation just to kind of 2give you some background on the topic tonight, and 3then essentially we're going to turn the meeting over 4to you. We're hoping to get your comments 5specifically in terms of scoping or the environmental 6issues that we should take into account for license 7 renewal.8We are transcribing tonight's meeting, so 9we ask that if you are going to make a comment that 10you come and use a microphone, specifically the one in 11the center of the room. If you are going to make a 12comment, if you could please identify yourself and any 13group that you're with the first time that you speak.

14We have got a number of people who have signed up 15using the yellow cards that we had on the back sign-up 16 table.17The gentleman who is kind enough to help 18 me tonight, Rich Barkley, who is from our Region I 19office, is going to do his best to put those cards in 20order and get everybody up here and get them a chance 21to speak. If you haven't signed up to speak yet and 22you'd still like to, flag me down and I can give you 23one of the cards, and we can get you into the shuffle.

24I'm told that we have to pretty much end 25by 10:00 tonight, so I'm going to ask everyone who is 26 5speaking to keep your comments brief, concise, and to 1the point -- thank you, sir. I'll take that once --

2 and please respect everyone's viewpoints.

3Apparently, there was an incident during 4our afternoon meeting today. I did not witness it, 5but apparently someone was quite offended in the 6behavior that they received. It happened outside, not 7during the meeting itself, so I'm going to ask you all 8to help me out and realize that there are other people 9here who probably don't share your opinion on things, 10and to please respect their opinions and act 11 respectably to them.

12When you have the microphone and it's your 13commenting time, certainly say what you will, but when 14someone else is up there, let them speak, let them 15 have their say.

16Again, please be patient. We're going to 17try to get to everyone. When it gets to about 9:30 or 18so, I'm going to try to give a warning, and hopefully 19we'll be able to get everybody in. But I can't make 20 any guarantees.

21Remember, this is not the only way that 22you can get your comments in. If you have it written, 23we can take your comments right now and read it into 24the transcript for the meeting. The main speaker, Bo, 25will be going over the other ways that you can get 26 6your comments in for the environmental scoping. But, 1again, tonight speaking is not the only way that you 2 can get your comments in on this process.

3If you did speak this afternoon, we're 4going to try to let people who did not have a chance 5to speak go first. Again, I'm going to ask that 6everybody try to keep your comments concise, so we can 7get through everybody. But we're going to try to let 8the new people speak first tonight. So if you were 9here this afternoon, we ask for your understanding on 10 that.11I'm going to ask, logistically, if we can 12keep the exits open and free of people. That way 13people can walk back and forth. And also, there tends 14to be a lot of noise in the room outside, so if we 15could try to keep the doors closed when people aren't 16coming and going, that will help everyone hear what 17 the speaker is saying.

18I already said the thing about the cell 19phones, so the only other thing that I'd like to say 20is there were a stack of meeting feedback forms on the 21table outside. If you could take a moment to fill 22those out, and either hand them to an NRC employee or 23drop them in the mail, they are free, and they will 24get to us. And those can give us some ideas as to 25what you liked about the meeting, what you didn't 26 7like, what we can hopefully fix in the future, 1 etcetera.2So having said that, I will turn things 3over to our speaker, Bo, who has a quick presentation, 4and then we're going to get to the reason that we're 5all here -- to listen to your comments on 6 environmental scoping.

7 MR. PHAM: Thank you, Lance.

8Good evening, everyone. My name is Bo 9Pham. I am a Senior Project Manager within the 10Division of License Renewal at the NRC. I'm also the 11Lead Project Manager for conducting the review 12associated with the Indian Point License Renewal 13 Application.

14Thank you all for taking the time to come 15to this meeting. I hope the information we provide 16will help you understand the process we're going 17through and the role you can play in helping us make 18sure that our environmental review considers the 19 relevant information.

20In June, we held a meeting here at The 21Colonial Terrace to provide an overview of the license 22renewal review process, which includes both a safety 23review and an environmental review. Tonight we will 24describe in more detail the environmental review 25 process associated with license renewal review.

26 8But the most important part of tonight's 1meeting is to receive the comments you may have on the 2scope of the environmental review. We also will give 3you some information about how you can submit comments 4 outside of this meeting, as Lance had mentioned.

5At the conclusion of this presentation, we 6will be taking comments on the scope of the 7environmental review. And as Lance has already 8indicated, this meeting is being transcribed, and all 9comments recorded from this meeting will be reviewed 10 and considered.

11 Next slide, please.

12Before I get into the details of the 13environmental review process, I'd like to take a few 14minutes to recap some of the information that was 15presented here in June. The NRC, as a federal agency, 16established, by the Energy Reorganization Act of 1974 17-- that regulates the civilian use of nuclear 18material. The Atomic Energy Act authorizes the NRC to 19grant a 40-year operating license for nuclear power 20 reactors.21This 40-year term was based primarily on 22economic considerations and antitrust factors, not on 23safety or technical limitations. The Atomic Energy 24 Act also allows for the license renewal.

25The National Environmental Policy Act of 26 91969, otherwise known as NEPA, establishes a national 1policy for considering the impact of federal 2decisionmaking on the human environment. As a matter 3of policy, the Commission determined that reactor 4license renewal constitutes a major federal action for 5which an environmental impact statement is warranted.

6The NRC's regulations governing nuclear 7safety, security, and environmental protection are 8 contained in Title 10 of the Code of Federal 9Regulations, which is commonly referred to as 10 CFR. 10In exercising its authority, the NRC's mission is 11threefold -- to ensure adequate protection of public 12health and safety, to promote common defense and 13 security, and to protect the environment.

14The NRC accomplishes its mission through 15a combination of regulatory programs and processes, 16 such as establishing rules and regulations, conducting 17inspections, issuing enforcement actions, assessing 18licensee performance, and evaluating operating 19experience from nuclear plants across the country and 20 internationally.

21The NRC has resident inspectors at all 22operating nuclear powerplants. These inspectors are 23considered the eyes and ears of the NRC. They carry 24out our safety mission on a daily basis and are on the 25front lines of ensuring acceptable safety performance 26 10 and compliance with regulatory requirements.

1 Next slide, please.

2Now, turning to license renewal, the 3Indian Point reactor units were licensed to operate in 4 1973 and '75. For Units 2 and 3, the current 5 operating licenses expire in 2013 and 2015, 6 respectively. The NRC received Entergy's applications 7for license renewal of both units on April 30th of 8 this year.

9As part of NRC's review of the Indian 10Point license renewal application, we will perform an 11environmental review to assess the impacts on the 12environment of an additional 20 years of operation.

13And I'll explain that process in a few minutes. I'll 14also share with you the schedule for the environmental 15 review.16 Next slide, please.

17License renewal involves two parallel 18reviews -- a safety review and the environmental 19review. These two reviews evaluate two separate 20aspects of the license renewal application. The 21safety review focuses on the aging of components and 22structures that the NRC deems important to plant 23 safety.24The staff's main objective in this review 25 is to determine that the effects of aging will be 26 11adequately managed by the applicant. The results of 1the safety review are documented in a safety 2 evaluation report, or otherwise known as an SER.

3For the environmental review, the staff 4considers, evaluates, and discloses the environmental 5impacts of continued operation for an additional 20 6years. The staff also evaluates the environmental 7impacts of alternatives to license renewal. The 8objective of the review is to determine if the 9environmental impacts of license renewal are so great 10that the license renewal would not be a reasonable 11option. The staff prepares an environmental impact 12statement, or known as EIS, to document this 13 environmental review.

14 Next slide.

15This diagram illustrates the safety and 16environmental review processes represented at the top 17and bottom of the slide. It also features two other 18considerations of the Commission's decision on whether 19or not to renew an operating license. The independent 20review is performed by the Advisory Committee on 21 Reactor Safeguards, or ACRS.

22Statutorily mandated by the Atomic Energy 23Act of 1954, the ACRS is a group of scientists and 24nuclear experts who serve as a consulting body to the 25Commission. The ACRS performs an independent review 26 12of the license renewal application, as well as a staff 1safety evaluation. They then report their findings 2 and recommendations directly to the Commission.

3Hearings may also be conducted concurrent 4with the staff's review. Interested stakeholders may 5submit concerns or contentions and request a hearing.

6If a hearing is granted, the Commission considers the 7outcome of the hearing process in its decision of 8 whether or not to issue a renewed operating license.

9Now I'm going to describe the 10environmental review process in a little bit more 11 detail. Next slide.

12The National Environmental Policy Act of 131969 requires that federal agencies follow a 14systematic approach in evaluating potential 15 environmental impacts associated with certain actions.

16We are required to consider the impacts of the 17proposed action and also any mitigation of those 18 impacts that we consider to be significant.

19We're also required to consider 20alternatives to the proposed action -- in this case, 21license renewal -- and that includes energy 22alternatives to proposed action, mitigating 23alternatives, and the no-action alternative, which 24would examine the environmental impacts associated 25 with not issuing a renewed license.

26 13The NRC has determined that an 1environmental impact statement will be prepared for 2the proposed license renewal of nuclear powerplants.

3In preparing an EIS, the NRC conducts a scoping 4process. The purpose of this scoping process is to 5identify the significant issues to be analyzed in 6 depth.7We are now gathering information for an 8environmental impact statement and are here to collect 9public comments on the scope of the review. That is, 10what environmental impacts should the staff consider 11 for the proposed license renewal of Indian Point?

12The staff has developed a generic 13environmental impact statement that addresses a number 14of issues common to all nuclear powerplants. The 15staff is supplementing that generic EIS with a site-16specific impact statement, which will address issues 17that are specific to Indian Point site. The staff 18also reexamines the conclusions reached in the generic 19EIS to determine if there are any new and significant 20 information that would change those conclusions.

21 Next slide.

22For the environmental review, we have 23established a team of specialists from the NRC staff 24and contractors who are experts in various fields and 25 disciplines. This slide gives you an idea of the 26 14various areas that we look at during the environmental 1review. Some of the areas include terrestrial and 2 aquatic ecology, environmental justice, hydrology, and 3 radiation protection.

4 Next slide.

5The scoping period started on August 10th 6when the Notice of Intent to prepare an EIS and 7conduct scoping was published. The NRC will be 8accepting comments on the scope of the environmental 9review until October 12th. In general, we are looking 10for sources of information about the environmental 11impact of continued operation at Indian Point that we 12should consider as we prepare our environmental impact 13 statement.

14You can assist us in that process by 15telling us, for example, what aspects of your local 16community we should focus on, what local 17environmental, social, and economic aspects the NRC 18should examine during our environmental review, and 19what reasonable alternatives are most appropriate for 20 this area.

21These are just some examples of the input 22we are looking for, and they represent the kind of 23information we are seeking through environmental 24scoping process. Your comments tonight should be 25 helpful in providing insights of this nature.

26 15 Next slide.

1This slide illustrates the various 2considerations that are factored into a decision to 3issue a renewed operating license. How do we use your 4input? Public comments are an important part of the 5environmental review process. We consider all of the 6comments that we receive from the public during the 7scoping process, as well as comments received on the 8draft environmental impact statement that's due to be 9 published by next summer.

10 Next slide, please.

11Now, in addition to providing comments at 12this meeting, there are other ways that you can submit 13comments for an environmental review process. You can 14provide written comments to the Chief of our Rules and 15Directive Branch, whose address is above in the slide.

16You can also make the comments in person or deliver in 17person if you happen to be in the Rockville, Maryland, 18 area.19We have also established a specific e-mail 20address at the NRC for the purpose of receiving your 21comments on the development of our draft environmental 22impact statement, and what you think the scope of our 23review should be. That e-mail address is 24indianpointeis@nrc.gov. All your comments will be 25considered -- reviewed and considered. And as Lance 26 16indicated, you can also deliver written comments to us 1tonight. We will add it in as part of the transcript.

2 Next slide, please.

3 This slide shows important milestone dates 4for the environmental review process. The Notice of 5Opportunity for Hearing was published on August 1st, 6followed by the Notice of Intent to prepare an EIS and 7conduct scoping. The opportunity to submit contention 8for a hearing closes on November 30th. Previously, it 9 was October 1st. But in response to congressional 10requests, the Commission has extended it to 11 November 30th.

12And if you have comments you'd like to 13submit outside of today's meeting, you have until 14October 12th, as I indicated earlier, and as 15 highlighted on the slide, to submit those comments.

16 Next slide.

17This slide identifies the primary points 18of contact within the NRC for environmental issues.

19 It also identifies where documents related to our 20review may be found in the local area. The Hendrick 21Hudson Free Library, the Field Library, and the White 22 Plains Public Library have all agreed to make the 23license renewal application available for public 24 review.25When it's published for comment, the draft 26 17environmental impact statement will also be available 1at each library. These documents will also be on the 2NRC's website at the website address shown at the 3 bottom of the page.

4In addition, as you came in, you were 5asked to fill out a registration card at our reception 6table. If you've included your address on that card, 7we will mail a copy of the draft and final 8 environmental impact statement to you.

9This concludes my presentation, and I will 10turn it over -- back to Lance. But I did want to make 11one note. Joe, could you go back -- two slides back 12with the milestone dates? The dates that's indicated 13on the handout you may have was a previous version, 14and it has been changed to November 30th. On your 15 handout that you have, it was actually October 1st.

16 Thank you, Lance.

17 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thanks, Bo.

18Before we go into the comments, I want to 19apologize for the heat. We're looking to get some air 20conditioning or something, or more of it, turned on, 21so that we can cool things down in here. For those of 22you who are standing in the back, if you wish to do 23so, that's great. But there are a lot of seats still 24open towards the front. So if you want to grab a seat 25before we start with the commenting, now would be a 26 18 good time to do it.

1With that, we'll go to our first speaker, 2who is Chris Hogan from New York State, Department of 3Environmental Conservation, and after Chris has a 4chance to talk Rich will start going through the 5 yellow cards.

6 Mr. Hogan?

7 MR. HOGAN: Thanks, Lance.

8Good evening. As Lance indicated, my name 9is Chris Hogan, and I am the Project Manager for the 10DEC for the relicensing of Indian Point Units 2 and 3.

11The purpose of my statement this evening is to clarify 12the Department's role in relicensing and other matters 13 related to the facility.

14With regard to scoping, Department staff 15are currently reviewing Entergy's environmental 16report, as well as historical information, and will be 17submitting written comments on the scope of the draft 18 EIS before the close of the comment period on 19 October 12th.

20In addition to our participation in 21scoping, the Department has been designated by 22Governor Spitzer to take the lead for state executive 23agencies for the relicensing of Indian Point. Acting 24in this role, the Department intends to file a request 25for a hearing and a petition for leave to intervene in 26 19 the relicensing proceeding. And at this time, the 1Department would like to thank NRC for extending the 2 time period to submit those documents.

3In their comments within scoping, 4Department staff will focus on the potential natural 5resource and aquatic impacts from the facility during 6an additional license term of 20 years. The 7Department's primary concern is the potential impacts 8 of the once-through cooling system at the facility.

9The two units combined currently withdraw 10approximately 2.5 billion gallons of water per day 11from the Hudson River. This results in the 12impingement of fish on the intake screens and the 13entrainment of small fish, fish larvae, and fish eggs 14 within the cooling system of the plant.

15In addition, the once-through cooling 16system also results in a discharge of heated water, 17because the water is used to absorb waste heat from 18the operation of the generation equipment. The 19discharge of heated wastewater for both units is 20 through a single discharge canal.

21The Department is concerned with the 22potential thermal impacts from the discharge on the 23aquatic resources of the river. This information is 24important, because before the NRC can relicense Indian 25Point, the Clean Water Act requires that New York 26 20State must certify that state water quality standards 1will be met during the new license term. This 2approval is referred to as a water quality 3 certification.

4Based on the schedule established by the 5NRC, the Department anticipates receiving Entergy's 6application for water quality certification in 7approximately May 2008. Pursuant to the New York 8State uniform procedures regulations, the water 9 quality certificate application will be subject to 10public review and comment. The Department has one 11year to issue, deny, or waive the certificate from the 12date of receipt. The Department looks forward to full 13 participation by the public in that process.

14In addition to the Department's role in 15the NRC relicensing process, there are two other 16matters related to the facility in which the 17Department has primary responsibility. Under the RCRA 18authority -- authority delegated to the Department by 19the EPA -- DEC regulates hazards waste management and 20remedial efforts at Indian Point, including any 21 potential groundwater contamination.

22In addition, as the agency that 23administers the environmental side of the NRC 24agreement state program, DEC has taken the lead for 25 the state in the ongoing radiological groundwater 26 21investigation. Staff has been actively involved 1throughout this process and soon will be reviewing the 2completed site hydrology report and any remediation 3 plans.4The Department also has jurisdiction over 5the wastewater discharge from the facility through the 6State Pollutant Discharge Elimination System, or 7SPDES, Program. Through the SPDES Program, the 8Department ensures that all discharge wastewaster 9meets state water quality standards. In addition, the 10SPDES Program also allows the Department to regulate 11 the withdrawal of water for cooling purposes.

12The Department issued a draft SPDES permit 13in November 2003 and commenced the administrative 14process to modify the permit. The draft permit is 15currently the subject of an adjudicatory hearing, and 16the Department is awaiting a Commissioner's ruling on 17the appeals of the issues that should be adjudicated.

18The draft permit currently requires 19Entergy to install cooling towers or equivalent 20 technology if the facility is relicensed by the NRC.

21That concludes my statement. If you have 22any questions with regard to the Department's 23involvement in the groundwater investigation, and the 24relicensing and the SPDES process, we have a table out 25front with two fax sheets that you can pick up. And 26 22 we'll be available to answer any questions.

1 Thank you.

2FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you, Mr.

3 Hogan.4As one of the NRC's co-regulators, we 5wanted to make sure that he had an opportunity to just 6kind of outline some of their concerns and some of 7 their perspective on the situation.

8So with that, I guess I'll turn things 9over to Rich to introduce our first three speakers.

10We're going to try to go in blocks of three, just to 11give you a heads up as to, you know, that you'll be 12coming up or when you'll be coming up. Once you get 13to the microphone, if you could introduce yourself and 14let us know if there's any group that you're with, 15just so we make sure that we know who's talking on the 16 transcript.

17Again, I'm going to ask you to stick to 18about five minutes as the maximum amount of time, as 19we do have a number of people who are signed up. I 20believe Rich has a few techniques that he'll be using 21if you start going over the five-minute mark, and 22 hopefully it won't get to that point, though.

23So, Rich, why don't you go ahead and tell 24 us who is going to be coming up first.

25MR. BARKLEY: Okay. And at this point, I 26 23have 27 people signed up. If there are any other 1people who want to sign up, please let me know.

2According to the list here, I have three elected 3officials who have expressed an interest in speaking.

4If there are any other elected officials, please let 5me know. And I'd like to lead off with John Testa, 6the Mayor of Peekskill, and then we'll move to Frank 7Giancamilli, who is with Congressman John Hall's 8office, and then, finally, Dan O'Neill, the Mayor of 9 the Village of the Buchanan.

10 So, John? Is John here?

11 (No response.)

12That makes it easy. Okay. I'll say 13 John's name until later. Maybe --

14FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: We're not batting 15 very well already.

16 (Laughter.)

17MR. BARKLEY: All right. Frank, do you 18 want to come up?

19FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: And I think all of 20you heard at one point the air conditioning kick in, 21 so hopefully that will help with the heat in here.

22MR. GIANCAMILLI: Thank you. My name is 23Frank Giancamilli. I'm from the office of Congressman 24John Hall. The Congressman cannot be here tonight, so 25 I will be reading a statement on his behalf.

26 24I'd first like to thank the NRC for 1extending the deadline for submittal and for having 2this meeting tonight. As I'm sure the Commission can 3see from today's turnout, and the passion shown by 4Indian Point's neighbors, the environmental impact of 5Indian Point is critically important to the Hudson 6Valley and must figure prominently in the NRC's 7consideration of Entergy's license renewal 8 application.

9The environmental impact of Indian Point 10on public health, local resources, and water quality 11continues to be one of the most serious issues facing 12our region. Indian Point already exacts a heavy toll 13on our local environment in ways I will elaborate on 14in a moment, and presents a constant threat to the 15 well being of its host communities.

16When Entergy filed its license renewal 17application on April 30th of this year, it raised the 18possibility that IP 2 and IP 3 could continue to 19operate for another 20 years. If that is to be the 20case, then the relicensing process discussed here 21today must result in fundamental changes in the way 22the plant is operated and the environmental damage 23 created by the plant is mitigated.

24It is for that reason that I vehemently 25believe that the NRC must keep one fundamental fact in 26 25mind throughout this process. The relicensing of 1Indian Point cannot be conducted in an environmental 2vacuum. This process cannot be subjected to a 3regulatory runaround that examines some systems and 4 excludes others.

5If there is an incident involving an 6operating system, or a spent fuel pool, or another 7aspect of the plant, that incident will have an 8environmental impact on surrounding communities, 9regardless of whether or not the regulatory framework 10 required them to be studied.

11The environmental scope of the NRC's 12review must reflect that reality by encompassing the 13entirety of operations at Indian Point. With that 14said, I believe there are several vital issues that 15must be considered by the NRC as it goes about the 16work of creating its draft environmental impact 17 statement, or DEIS.

18The first and perhaps most disturbing of 19these issues is the continued existence of 20 uncontrolled leaks of radioactive material from Indian 21Point spent fuel pools. For almost two years, Indian 22Point has been leaking tritium and the cancer-causing 23strontium-90 into the soil and water surrounding the 24plant. Alarmingly, it is possible that some of this 25material may even be making its way into the Hudson 26 26 River.1Just two weeks ago, another pinhole-sized 2leak was discovered in the fuel transfer canal. The 3fact that these leaks have continued to disperse 4radioactive material for years, with no sure knowledge 5of their source or concrete plan to stop them, should 6make it clear that they constitute a significant 7environmental threat that must be addressed in this 8 relicensing process.

9Specifically, I believe that the spent 10fuel pools should be considered within the scope of 11the aging management review, that radiological 12monitoring in the Hudson should be expanded to more 13forms of aquatic life, and that a condition of 14relicensing should be a requirement that Entergy find 15 and stop these leaks.

16Indian Point's operations also place a 17great strain on the Hudson through the introduction of 18thermal pollution that has an undeniably negative 19impact on the river's ecosystem. As a result of its 20cooling process, Indian Point consumes billions of 21gallons of water a day and undermines the survival of 22several critical species of fish and wildlife.

23Clearly, this is a direct environmental impact of the 24 plant's continued operation and warrants consideration 25 in the DEIS.

26 27Indian Point's location in New York City 1metro area, and at the heart of the watershed that 2serves New York City and Westchester, makes safety and 3security an issue worthy of environmental 4consideration as well. An incident at the plant could 5have catastrophic impacts on the local environmental 6and human wealth by rendering much of the region 7 uninhabitable in a worst-case scenario.

8 The 2003 Witt Report declared that current 9radiological response plans are not adequate to 10protect the public, and the plan has been met with 11strenuous local government oppositions. Given the 12stakes, it is necessary and appropriate for the NRC to 13consider the effectiveness of the evacuation plans for 14Indian Point in the context of environmental 15 conditions in human health.

16Since this is a process with potentially 17long-term repercussions, the DEIS must also be 18prepared to look into the future. Indian Point spent 19 fuel pools are rapidly reaching their maximum 20capacity. And if the plant is allowed to operate 21decades into the future, the impacts of continued 22waste storage, the shift from fuel pools to dry cask 23storage, and the ability of Indian Point to 24accommodate projected volumes of nuclear waste must be 25 considered in the DEIS.

26 28If Indian Point is to receive a license 1renewal for another 20 years of operation, the 2communities of the Hudson Valley deserve to know that 3the NRC relicensing process has been thorough, open, 4and has guaranteed that Indian Point will operate in 5a more environmentally responsible manner in its next 620 years than it has in its first 30. To do that, the 7process must encompass the full environmental impact 8 of Indian Point on its host communities.

9Indian Point's reactors do not operate in 10a vacuum, and neither should the relicensing process 11 that will determine their future.

12 Thank you.

13 (Applause.)

14FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: If people would 15rather use the front mic instead of that one, please 16 feel free.

17MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Dan, your choice on 18 mics.19MR. O'NEILL: This one is fine. Thank 20you. I'll try to speak loud into the microphone. My 21name is Dan O'Neill. I am the Mayor of the Village of 22Buchanan where the Indian Point nuclear powerplants 23are located. I want to thank the NRC for giving 24myself and other members of the public to comment on 25 the environmental impact of Indian Point.

26 29It is absolutely necessary that the NRC 1relicensing procedure take into account the 2environmental impacts that Indian Point does have on 3not only Buchanan but the entire Hudson Valley, and, 4indeed, the New York City metropolitan area. Let's 5face it, any way that electricity is made there are 6 going to be serious adverse environmental impacts.

7And I'm not going to shy away from the 8problems that occur when Indian Point -- when nuclear 9power is used to make electricity. There are problems 10with the spent fuel pools, the leaks should not have 11happened, although I do want to assure everybody that 12there was absolutely no impact on the local water --

13 drinking water.

14In fact, the river water temperature 15increases should also be taken into account. I agree 16that the NRC should focus on these issues. However, 17you cannot look at Indian Point or nuclear power in a 18vacuum. You have to compare what would happen if 19Indian Point was not in operation. What would happen 20would be an increase in burning fossil fuels. This 21should be taken into account not only by the NRC but 22by the DEC. I was sad that the speaker did not take 23 that into account, nor did Congressman Hall.

24Because of Indian Point, there is a 25reduction in the amount of fossil fuels which would be 26 30burned. That is important. Why? Because of global 1warming, because of the greenhouse effect, because of 2the impact of burning fossil fuels on fish and 3wildlife, because of the effect on human health in 4 terms of asthma, emphysema, and, yes, even cancer.

5Without Indian Point, there would be more 6fossil fuels burned and more of these adverse 7consequences. So if you add up the benefits and 8liabilities of nuclear power compared to burning 9fossil fuels, it is obvious that nuclear power stands 10 pretty tall.

11FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'm sorry. I'm 12going to interrupt you at this point. I'll let you 13 continue in a second.

14 MR. O'NEILL: Sure.

15FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: People should be 16free to come up to the mic and express their opinions 17without having people take exception to them. That 18was one of the things that I asked for prior to this 19meeting being started. When someone has the mic, they 20 should be able to speak freely.

21If you would like to express your opinion 22 afterwards and hold up a sign, clap, or make some 23other noise if you will, then please go ahead. But 24please let the people have the mic, let them have the 25floor, and respect their opinions while they are 26 31 speaking.1 Thank you.

2 MR. O'NEILL: Thank you. Absolutely.

3 (Applause.)

4You're right, sir. That is the American 5 way. Absolutely.

6Just to continue, Westchester County and 7the New York City metropolitan area suffer some of the 8worst air pollution in the country if you look at the 9EPA studies that are issued periodically. In fact, 10there are two coal-burning plants that are directly 11across the river from Westchester County, one of them 12almost directly across the river from Indian Point.

13Those two coal-burning plants have been in constant 14violation of EPA emission standards for years, and 15 there seems to be no end in sight.

16In addition, the so-called alternative 17methods of making electricity may be very viable, but 18they also have adverse environmental impacts. For 19 example, the California branch of the Natural 20Resources Defense Council filed suit to stop the 21construction of a wind farm. Robert Kennedy, Jr. of 22the Riverkeeper opposed the wind farm in 23 Massachusetts.

24Solar power -- there is another 25alternative energy source that has problems because of 26 32the chemicals used in the photoelectric cells. So no 1matter what way electricity is made you have to look 2at the environmental impact. And I am asking the NRC 3and the DEC to take the impact of Indian Point in 4benefitting the environment of the Hudson Valley, the 5 entire area, into account when they conduct the EIS.

6In fact, I wish there was a federal agency 7assigned, like the NRC is assigned, to oversee nuclear 8powerplants, to oversee the operations of fossil fuel 9 burning plants like those right across the river.

10I thank you. And if there's any 11 questions, I'll be glad to answer them.

12 (Applause.)

13 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you, sir.

14MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Thank you, Mayor. We 15do have three more speakers next -- Mannajo Green of 16Clearwater -- and she did correct me -- she is an 17elected official, so I apologize for not mentioning 18that earlier. Next, Dr. Patrick Moore of Green Spirit 19Strategies, and then, finally, Norris McDonald, 20President of the Afro-American Environmentalist 21 Association.

22MS. GREENE: Thank you. I'm Mannajo 23Greene, Environmental Director for Hudson River Sloop 24Clearwater, and I serve on the Town Council in the 25 Town of Rosendale in Ulster County.

26 33The NRC's primary mandate is to protect 1public health and safety and the environment, and, 2further, it is required to incorporate any new and 3significant information into its findings. In a 4democracy, the role of government, industry, and the 5public has to be carefully balanced. And for free 6enterprise to work, there have to be checks and 7balances, and that demands that our regulatory 8agencies exercise the utmost rigor and err on the side 9 of protection, not on leniency.

10Everything in our environment is 11interconnected. I ask the NRC to maintain as holistic 12approach as possible. They have wide discretion and 13should use it to be inclusive and not exclude any 14relevant information. Just a moment of history, and 15that is when these plants all over the country that 16have been licensed for 40 years were first licensed, 17 they were simply licensed for 40 years.

18About 18 years into the process they 19realized that, you know, they could maybe get another 2020 years out of their investment and prevailed upon 21the NRC to promulgate regulations for relicensing.

22However, over the recent past, or over time, the 23issues that can be considered in relicensing, and the 24public's ability to have input has been systematically 25 narrowed.26 34This is part of a whole tendency that we 1see for individual and community rights to be usurped 2by corporate power. And it's a question of where the 3most money is to protect interests. But for the NRC 4to do its job, the more public input they have, and 5the more they listen to it, the more effective they 6 will be.7Clearwater was here originally. We 8originally opposed the siting of this plant due to its 9location in what was then a relatively dense 10population, but the increase in population over the 11 years has been -- that has exceeded our projections.

12You can't grandfather in the site. Our 13congressional delegates are trying to get the laws 14amended, but you can use your discretionary power.

15You can tell your attorneys to find out how you can 16include information, not how you don't need to include 17information. And to ignore the increase in population 18density, the lack of viability of the emergency 19 evacuation plan is an unacceptable form of denial.

20And then, I think it's urgent -- I lost my 21 place. Excuse me a second. Also, to say that 22radioactive material that is leaking into the 23groundwater and into the Hudson River is being handled 24by an ongoing monitoring and investigation, which is 25definitely necessary, but these are also symptomatic 26 35of an aging and deteriorating facility. And the 1leaking absolutely must be taken into consideration, 2 and, further, it must be contained and remediated 3 before a relicensing is allowed.

4And then, it's also important to require 5that aging infrastructure be repaired and replaced, 6and we cannot afford a 20-year extension to be a human 7experiment in how far you can allow aging equipment to 8 go before a plant is closed.

9 Alternative energy has been mentioned over 10and over today. Alternative energy is the 11alternative. By 2013 and 2015, and during the 20 12years thereafter, substantial increases in 13infrastructure for alternative energy, for renewable 14energy and energy efficiency, will be put into place 15in the Hudson Valley, and that must be reliably 16 estimated.

17And, finally, I have a comment. Several 18groups have made comments about the environmental 19justice implications of nuclear power. Not only is it 20not a clean source of power, but from its original 21manufacture, from the mining, from the processing, 22from the enrichment of the uranium, to the waste 23disposal, those -- all of those practices have 24environmental impacts, and invariably those impacts 25are on communities of color and Native American 26 36 communities.

1The waste nationally that is planned --

2radioactive waste is planned to be moved to Yucca 3Mountain. Now, that has never gone through, and it 4will be stored onsite. But that environmental justice 5issue really works -- definitely works both ways. And 6I think it's really important that that point be made.

7 Thank you.

8 (Applause.)

9 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Thank you.

10 Dr. Moore?

11DR. MOORE: Thank you for the opportunity 12to take part. My name is Patrick Moore. I am a co-13founder and 15-year former Director of Green Peace.

14I am now Chair and Chief Scientist, Green Spirit 15Strategies, Limited, focused on sustainability. And 16 I am presently an advisor to New York area.

17One day when I was doing my Ph.D. in 18ecology at the University of British Columbia I read 19about a little group of people meeting in a church 20basement in Vancouver, planning a protest against U.S.

21hydrogen bomb testing. I joined that group and ended 22up being in the planning and on the first voyage of 23 what became Green Peace.

24We convinced President Nixon at the time 25to end those hydrogen bomb tests. As a matter of 26 37fact, that was the last time the United States ever 1detonated a hydrogen bomb. With that victory behind 2us, we went on -- I went on -- to spend the next 15 3years full-time in the front lines of the movement 4 around the world.

5We got a lot of things right -- stop the 6bomb, save the whales, stop toxic discharge, etcetera.

7But I think we made one serious error -- in our 8enthusiasm, focused on nuclear weapons testing and the 9threat of all-out nuclear holocaust between the Soviet 10 Union and the United States.

11We made the mistake of lumping nuclear 12energy in with nuclear weapons, as if they were all 13part of the same holocaust. I think we failed to 14 differentiate between the peaceful and beneficial uses 15of the technology and the destructive and even evil 16uses of the technology. If we banned all technologies 17that could be used for evil purposes, we would never 18 have harnessed fire.

19A car bomb is made with a car, diesel oil, 20and fertilizer. Is the best way to stop car bombs to 21ban diesel oil, fertilizer, and automobiles? No.

22Think of nuclear medicine for a minute. Nuclear 23 medicine successfully diagnoses and treats millions of 24people every year. Many of the isotopes used in 25nuclear medicine come from nuclear reactors -- cobalt-26 38 60, technetium, and others.

1I want to talk about the environmental 2issues. Climate change is the biggest environmental 3issue today. Many people have come up and made the 4assertion that nuclear energy is producing a lot of 5greenhouse gas and CO2 emissions. This is purposely 6misleading the public. There are many independent, 7full life cycle analyses of greenhouse gas emissions 8 from all the different electricity sources.

9Nuclear plants produce on average five 10grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour. Solar panels produce 1135 grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour, largely because of 12the need to extract silicon, which is a very energy-13intensive process. Gas plants produce 500 grams of 14CO2 per kilowatt hour, 100 times as much as nuclear 15energy. And coal-fired powerplants produce 1,000 16grams of CO2 per kilowatt hour, 200 times as much as 17 nuclear energy.

18These are facts -- this is from the Office 19of Science and Technology from the Parliament of the 20United Kingdom. You can also Google the University of 21Madison, Wisconsin, that has done an independent study 22of full life cycle CO2 for all power generation 23 sources.

24Nuclear and hydroelectric are the two 25lowest CO2 emitters of all our technologies. That is 26 39partly why New York State is the fifth lowest per 1capital CO2 emitter in the country, because 45 percent 2of its electricity comes from either nuclear or 3hydroelectric. Vermont and Idaho are the lowest, 4because even more of their electricity is coming from 5either hydroelectric, as in the case of Vermont --

6Idaho, I mean, and a combination of hydro and nuclear 7 in the case of Vermont.

8I'd like to talk about fish for a sec. We 9were told by a member of Riverkeeper that the plant at 10Indian Point is killing a billion fish a year. I 11 don't think there is a billion fish in that river.

12 (Laughter.)

13That is a ridiculous thing to say.

14Meanwhile, their own leader -- Bobby Kennedy -- said 15recently, "Today, the Hudson River is the richest body 16of water in the North Atlantic Region, producing more 17pounds of fish per acre than any other waterway in the 18 Atlantic Ocean north of the equator." 19 (Laughter.)

20That plant has been there for 35 years 21while the Hudson River has systematically recovered 22from a time when 20-mile stretches of it were dead to 23where Bobby Kennedy is saying it's the most productive 24river north of the equator in the Atlantic Ocean. I 25 don't understand how those points jive at all.

26 40Finally, I'd like to talk about air 1quality. The Mayor of Buchanan made it clear, and so 2did the National Science study -- National Academy of 3Science study. There has to be an alternative to the 4energy at Indian Point if it is shut down. It 5provides nearly a third of New York's power on some 6days, and runs the whole mass transit system. What 7are the alternatives to nuclear? Well, I'll tell you 8 one thing: they're not wind and solar.

9Wind energy has a very useful application 10in that when the wind is blowing you can turn off some 11of the gas peaking plants if you're at peak power 12requirements. Solar is simply too expensive and will 13-- unless it comes down by 10 times in price, will 14 remain a very minor niche player.

15But those aren't the reasons that they 16can't replace Indian Point. It's because they are 17intermittent and unreliable sources of energy by 18nature. The sun does not shine at night. the wind 19does not blow all the time, and, therefore, they 20cannot provide base load electricity to the grid like 21 nuclear, hydro, and fossil fuels can.

22The only alternative would be gas-fired 23plants producing 10 million tons more CO2, and it 24absolutely blows my mind when I hear someone from 25Riverkeeper, an environmental group, say the words 26 41"clean natural gas." How is 10 million tons of 1additional CO2 clean? And how are additional tons of 2sulfur dioxide, nitrous oxides, and particulate 3matters clean? It's absolutely logically inconsistent 4to on one hand say shut down Indian Point, and on the 5other hand say we're all worried about air pollution 6 and climate change.

7The only way to get -- to keep the air as 8clean as it is in this state is to keep Indian Point 9operating safely, cost effectively, and clean, just 10 like it has been for the last 35 years.

11 Thank you very much.

12 (Applause.)

13 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you, sir.

14Since he named a few of the groups by name, I wanted 15 to give a chance for just a 30-second rebuttal.

16MS. SHAPIRO: Mr. Moore, unfortunately, 17has misrepresented himself and lied about his 18background, his credentials, and the truth of nuclear 19power. Its costs are much higher than anything else.

20Its fossil fuel print is equal, if not greater, and he 21hasn't addressed the issue of the spent fuel waste, 22the radioactive waste, 18,000 tons, sitting in spent 23 fuel pools right here on the river.

24 (Applause.)

25He also -- and I have a question for him 26 42that I'd like him to answer -- how much money has he 1received from the nuclear industry? He is on the 2nuclear payroll. He is on the payroll of the Nuclear 3 Energy Institute --

4 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Ms. Shapiro?

5 MS. SHAPIRO: -- as well as --

6FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I promised you 30 7 seconds.8MS. SHAPIRO: All right. Please answer 9 the question.

10 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you.

11MS. SHAPIRO: How much money are you 12 making from the nuclear industry?

13FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Rich, who do we have 14 next?15MR. BARKLEY: Norris McDonald is who we'd 16 call next. Norris?

17MR. McDONALD: Good evening. My name is 18Norris McDonald, and I'm Founder and President of the 19African-American Environmentalist Association. And I 20have to make an admission here first thing, and that 21 is that I love Indian Point.

22 (Applause.)

23We also, obviously, support the license 24renewal, but let me get down to business here. We 25submitted written -- a written statement for the 26 43record. We went through the entire environmental 1report and addressed each item. I won't try to do 2 that now, but I will go over some of the items of 3 interest to the members of our organization.

4The Director of our New York office 5testified at the afternoon hearing and pointed out 6some of the environmental justice considerations that 7I'm going to also add to. And we will supplement our 8record, probably later we'll submit an electronic 9 copy.10One thing in the environmental report that 11we're a little concerned about is the Section 4.22.2, 12and that's on environmental justice. It's a little 13 confusing, and NRC should maybe revisit that.

14It states that 10 CFR Part 51 -- that 15Entergy isn't responsible for conducting an 16environmental justice analysis, yet the NRC comes back 17around and says that in its environmental justice 18review it will rely upon Entergy's environmental 19report to base its environmental justice review on 20that. That's something that NRC should look at and do 21 something about.

22Also, I'd like to revisit the state, the 23Department of Environmental Conservation, and the 24water permit. The New York State Department of 25Environmental Conservation, environmental justice 26 44policy, states that it is the general policy of the 1DEC to promote environmental justice and incorporate 2measures for achieving environmental justice into its 3programs, policies, regulations, legislative 4proposals, and activities. This policy is 5specifically intended to ensure that DEC's 6environmental permit process promotes environmental 7 justice.8 In order to reduce the levels of 9impingement and entrainment of Hudson River fish, the 10 Department of Environmental Conservation's draft SPDES 11permit could substantially limit the ability of Indian 12Point 2 and 3 to generate electricity, and may even 13lead to the closure of the facilities. And that's our 14big concern. I will talk about that a little bit 15 later.16Any substantial reduction in the amount of 17electricity generated by Indian Point 2 and 3 will 18spark demand for replacement electricity from nearby 19powerplants. Unfortunately, these powerplants are, 20for the most part, pollution-emitting fossil fuel 21plants located in New York's low income and minority 22 communities.

23As production of these fossil fuel plants 24increases, the air quality in and around these plants 25will further deteriorate, causing a spike in the 26 45incidences of respiratory and cardiovascular diseases 1in the communities where these plants are based. The 2draft SPDES permit, therefore, effectively places the 3interests of Hudson River fish eggs and larvae over 4the health of New York's low income and minority 5 communities.

6In the Bronx, which is 35.6 percent 7African-American and 88 percent minority, there are 8two powerplants. In Brooklyn, which is 36.4 percent 9African-American and 64.2 percent minority, there are 10seven powerplants. In Queens, which is 20 percent 11African-American and 63.2 percent minority, there are 12six powerplants. So you get the idea -- and I could 13go on for the rest of the night about the 14disproportionate impact in minority and African-15 American communities.

16The trash transfer stations, most of the 17bus depots, and I'm sure hopefully NRC will look at 18those items. But also, within the environmental 19report, and in the development of the EIS, I would 20hope that you would spend more time looking at the 21benefits, the great benefits of Indian Point. That's 22what I love -- the great benefits. That is a fact 23 that it's emission-free.

24New York State is facing a SIP call, the 25state implementation plan, of the Clean Air Act. Most 26 46of the non-attainment areas will violate those. I get 1frustrated, because I have been working in the 2environmental community for 28 years, and the non-3attainment areas, they continue to be non-attainment 4 areas. We have to do something about that.

5Well, by its very nature, Indian Point 6does something about that. So let's go more into the 7benefits. Indian Point will benefit the regional 8greenhouse gas initiative. Of course, NRC is required 9to conduct an environmental justice analysis due to 10the Presidential Executive Order 12898 passed back 11 January 11, 1994.

12So let's look at more of the benefits.

13Let's look at the benefits in terms of smog, which is 14our big issue. I'm a chronic acute asthmatic. I've 15almost died twice. Now, many people in this room 16 would say, "Hey, you're not dead yet?" 17 (Laughter.)

18Or would like to see me dead, and that's 19 fine, because let's address hate and its progeny, 20prejudice. There's a prejudice against Indian Point.

21But I'll tell you what: I love Indian Point. And the 22main reason I love Indian Point -- and it's not about 23me -- it's about the four-year old child in Harlem in 24a high-rise apartment on a non-attainment day without 25air conditioning, the suffering of children from smog, 26 47 and that makes me angry.

1 And I'll stand up to any hate and any 2prejudice for this plant, for that issue, for those 3children. We will be their representative. I love 4 Indian Point.

5 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you, sir.

6 (Applause.)

7I'm going to ask one more time that if 8people could please turn your cell phones off or 9silence them. There has been about a half a dozen 10times that they've gone off, and it's kind of 11 disruptive. So if you could, please. Thank you.

12MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Our next three 13speakers are Lisa Rainwater of Riverkeeper, followed 14by Jerry Kremmer of AREA, and then Frank Fraley of the 15 Mount Vernon Hospital Center.

16MS. RAINWATER: Thanks, Rich. Lisa 17Rainwater, Policy Director at Riverkeeper. And I have 18a written statement that I can hand in for the record 19 after I have completed my talk.

20I'd like to first thank the NRC for 21granting the 60-day extension for the submittal of the 22petitions to intervene in Indian Point's relicensing 23proceedings. I'm here to address two issues tonight 24-- one that remains of great importance to those 25living in the shadows of Indian Point evacuation 26 48planning, and the other that goes to the heart of our 1democratic society -- the right to communicate with 2our government agencies without fear of intimidation 3 and harassment.

4Neither issue, under current NRC 5relicensing regulations, is taken seriously. But, 6nonetheless, I use this opportunity to shine a 7spotlight on these issues that have been left in the 8 darkened corners of the NRC's regulatory process.

9Emergency planning is an issue, 10unfortunately, that the NRC refuses to address during 11the relicensing process, despite significant changes 12in the population, roadways, and infrastructure, since 13the plant was originally sited in the agriculture 14landscape of Buchanan, New York, nearly half a century 15 ago.16A 2003 report conducted by James Lee Witt, 17FEMA Director under President Clinton, and considered 18the nation's leading emergency planning expert on 19Indian Point's emergency evacuation plans concluded 20that "The current radiological response system and 21capabilities are not adequate to overcome their 22 combined weight and protect the people from an 23unacceptable dose of radiation in the event of a 24release from Indian Point, especially if the release 25 is faster or larger than the design basis release." 26 49Most county officials, emergency 1responders, and area residents understand that, given 2high population density and congested road networks 3that characterize the New York metropolitan area, 4Indian Point's emergency plans are patently unworkable 5and unfixable. In fact, three of the four counties 6and the New York State emergency management office 7have refused to submit their annual certification 8letters for five years running, and yet the NRC and 9 FEMA continue to rubber stamp a gravely flawed plan.

10These are the concerns that I and fellow 11New Yorkers submitted to NRC Chairman Dale Klein 12beginning on May 29, 2007, in the form of an 13electronic action alert issued by Riverkeeper. We 14further requested that the NRC include emergency 15planning in its relicensing proceedings for Indian 16 Point.17On August 7th, J.E. Dyer, Director for the 18Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation, wrote a response 19back to me and hundreds of others explaining why the 20NRC will not look at emergency planning -- a topic I 21will return to shortly. This letter was sent to my 22home address and subsequently sent as a copy to every 23individual person who participated in the first 24release of our action alert -- approximately 400 25 people.26 50It's bad enough that the NRC found it 1acceptable to send the letter to my Riverkeeper office 2and to my home address not once but four times, and 3violated my right to privacy by sharing my home 4address with hundreds of people. What's worse, 5however, is that the NRC deemed it appropriate to 6attach to every response letter a list of names and 7addresses of all those private citizens who sent in a 8 letter of concern.

9The Nuclear Regulatory Commission is a 10federal agency set up by Congress. Your job is to 11protect the public. It is not your job to harass and 12intimidate concerned citizens from providing you 13feedback on your regulatory process. We live in a 14democratic society. We are supposed to have a 15government that is open, transparent, and concerned 16about the public good, on a variety of issues, from 17the food we eat to the air we breathe to the 18medications we take to the entertainment we receive on 19 television and the radio.

20In all my years of actively participating 21in our democracy, and the hundreds of action alerts 22that I have participated in in a variety of issues --

23and believe it or not, just not nuclear -- not once 24has a federal agency or a state agency or a federal 25 bureau or a state bureau publicly distributed the 26 51names and addresses of those who contacted them out of 1 concern over a particular issue.

2There is a term for the actions taken by 3the NRC under Mr. Dyer's direction: citizen 4intimidation. If people stop coming to your meetings, 5if people stop submitting comments to your federal 6agency, if people stop raising concerns about Indian 7Point, the only nuclear plant in the country to be 8 leaking strontium-90 into public waterways, a plant 9that has a five- to six-time emergency plant unplanned 10shutdown rate than any in the country, a plant that 11continues to have incredulous accidents, mishaps, and 12breakdowns, it's not because they're not afraid of 13 Indian Point, it's because they're afraid of you.

14But it seems that the NRC also has fears 15-- fears that if emergency planning were to be 16included in the relicensing process for Indian Point, 17the plant may fail the test and need to cease 18 operation at the end of its current license.

19In his letter to me and hundreds of 20others, Mr. Dyer noted, and I quote, "In adopting its 21 regulations for license renewal, the Commission 22determined that the existing regulatory framework for 23emergency preparedness at operating reactors is 24sufficient, and that the staff need not review the 25 emergency preparedness again as part of the license 26 52renewal process. The NRC generally relies on FEMA's 1review of emergency plans and preparedness for areas 2 surrounding nuclear powerplants." 3In other words, the NRC refused our 4request. But then again, the NRC has refused the 5County of Westchester's formal petition requesting 6that emergency planning be included. The NRC has 7refused the New York State Attorney General's request 8that emergency planning be included, and the NRC has 9refused the New York Hudson Valley Congressional 10Delegation's request that emergency planning be 11 included.12But if, in fact, the NRC relies on FEMA's 13review of emergency plans for regions around the 14plant, then surely the latest news to come from FEMA 15is all the NRC needs to shut down Indian Point until 16 an adequate emergency siren system is working.

17FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: If you could please 18 summarize.

19MS. RAINWATER: On September 12th -- I 20 have one more thing, and Dr. Moore --

21 (Applause.)

22-- was able to conclude. I would prefer 23-- I have one paragraph. I would like to conclude.

24 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: That's fine. Please 25 be brief.26 53MS. RAINWATER: I just saw the one minute 1 remaining light there.

2 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Please.

3 MS. RAINWATER: On September 12th, FEMA 4sent a letter to New York State's Emergency Management 5Office in which the current emergency sirens at Indian 6Point are deemed unworkable. I quote, "The placement 7of the new sirens decreases the audibility of the 8existing system." Therefore, the new electronic 9sirens that were installed and tested by Entergy must 10be removed from interfering with the sound path of any 11existing co-located rotating siren in order to restore 12 the existing system to its full functionality.

13For over two years, the public has waited 14for a reliable emergency notification system at Indian 15Point. And if one is to read accurately FEMA's 16assessment of Entergy's installation proceedings, we 17have been waiting while the company has been dilly-18dallying. And what penalties has Entergy faced for 19 missing not one but three deadlines?

20 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'm sorry.

21MS. RAINWATER: A paltry $130,000.

22 Perhaps the NRC --

23 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I hate -- Miss --

24 MS. RAINWATER: -- should begin --

25FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Miss? Miss? I'm 26 54 sorry.1MS. RAINWATER: I have one sentence, and 2 I need to -- perhaps the NRC --

3FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: All right. All 4 right. All right.

5 PARTICIPANT: Give her a minute.

6 MS. RAINWATER: -- should begin developing 7fear in the entity it is mandated to regulate and stop 8 intimidating citizens.

9 Thank you.

10 (Applause.)

11FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'd just like to 12remind everyone -- at the beginning of the meeting I 13asked people to speak -- stick to a specific 14 timeframe, so that we could let everyone speak.

15 (Applause.)

16I hope that I'm not being intimidating by 17saying this, but if you could please stick to that 18timeframe, it will allow us to get through people 19 faster.20 (Applause.)

21 Thank you.

22 MR. BARKLEY: I did -- I understood --

23(Inaudible comment from audience member.)

24FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Miss, please. I 25gave her the same amount of time that I've given 26 55 everyone else. That's as much as we're discussing 1 this.2MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Actually, I gave her 3 about two minutes extra.

4 Jerry, go ahead.

5MR. KREMMER: I'd like to thank the NRC 6for allowing us to participate in this hearing. My 7name is Jerry Kremmer. I'm the Chairman of the 8Advisory Board of the New York Affordable Reliable 9Electricity Alliance. We have 123 members, including 10the Business Council of Westchester County, the 11Westchester County Association, the New York City 12Partnership, the Building Congress of New York, 21 13union organizations, and a variety of community 14 groups.15We were formed some four years ago, 16because we felt it was necessary for there to be 17another voice on the issue of energy sources here in 18this region. I'm a 23-year veteran of the New York 19State Legislature and have been involved with power 20 issues probably since the early 1970s.

21According to the NRC, this hearing is 22designed to give members of the public the chance to 23suggest environmental issues that the NRC should 24consider. There are many factors that NRC must 25consider in making its decision. We believe that air 26 56quality has to be one of the key factors in making 1 your decision, which I noted on your chart.

2Because Indian Point is located in New 3York, which has the dubious distinction of having the 4poorest air quality in the nation, the NRC has an even 5more daunting challenge. To understand the gravity of 6our air quality situation, one has to look no further 7than the EPA scorecard on air quality in this region.

8The following areas in New York State are 9 in violation of federal ozone standards as well as 10federal standards for particulate matter: the five 11burroughs of New York City, Long Island, three 12counties of the Lower Hudson Valley, including 13Westchester, Putnam, and Rockland. Dutchess and 14Orange are also in violation of federal ozone 15 standards.

16Additionally, the Lung Association's 2007 17report shows that New York's air quality continues to 18 worsen with the New York area continuing to be the 19most dangerous place to breathe the air for thousands 20and thousands of asthma sufferers, along with many 21 others who have respiratory illnesses.

22Indian Point generates 2,000 megawatts of 23 electricity, enough to power approximately two million 24homes. Most important is that it generates this power 25 without spewing harmful toxins or greenhouse emissions 26 57into our atmosphere. Two thousand megawatts is a lot 1of power, equal to four or five natural gas or coal 2burning plants. So minus Indian Point, we would need 3four or five fossil fuel burning plants to replace the 4 electricity that Indian Point produces.

5And I must point out to you, there are 6none in the pipeline, there's no New York State siting 7law, there's nothing going on, there's nothing coming 8downline, so we can't be cavalier about the potential 9 for the fact that a lot of people in this room may 10face the possibility one day of hitting that light 11 switch and nothing happens.

12However, there are several issues that I 13think are more important as you go into this air 14quality. There are those who put forth the notion 15that we can replace Indian Point with power generated 16from wind turbines or solar panels. These renewable 17former energies are great, they're terrific, we should 18 have them in our portfolio.

19They have just tried to build one in the 20ocean off of Jones Beach, and the Long Island Power 21Authority has abandoned that wind project because of 22cost factors. So people talk about wind; you just 23 can't do it.

24Our mass transit system in New York City, 25our local hospitals, our emergency rooms, our sporting 26 58arenas, can't wait for the wind to blow and the sun to 1shine. They need power on demand, and Indian Point 2 provides that for them.

3The things that make nuclear the best form 4of base load power is the fact that it doesn't emit 5harmful pollutants, pollutants like NOX, like SOX. We 6hear a lot about it. People don't realize the fact 7that nuclear is not one of the criminal elements 8 involved in producing it.

9Even if the wind was blowing all the time, 10like it does in certain parts of the west, or the sun 11was out 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day, you can't get enough power to 12replace 2,000 megawatts. Using calculations of the 13amount of electricity produced from the average wind 14turbine in New York, it would require 1,300 wind 15turbines to replace Indian Point. Ironically, the 16same environmentalists that we mentioned earlier who 17runs the group that is opposed to Indian Point fought 18to kill the wind farm off of Martha's Vineyard. You 19 can't have it both ways.

20And that project only proposed to site 21one-tenth of the number of turbines. Good luck on 22 getting their support for that type of project.

23I don't think there's an elected official 24in this room who appeared recently in June when I did, 25or who appeared tonight or is going to appear at the 26 59next hearing, who is willing to raise their hand and 1say, "I will willingly accept one of those five coal 2plants in my community, because it's the patriotic 3 thing to do. It just ain't going to happen." 4In closing, I request that the NRC give 5significant weight to the fact that without Indian 6Point producing 2,000 megawatts of emission-free 7electricity, the atmosphere in the New York City 8region will further degrade as fossil fuel burning 9 plants are built to replace the enormous levels of 10power that Indian Point produces. The replacement 11power would generate 14 million tons of CO2 each year.

12It's a sad fact that should Indian Point's 13energy need to be replaced, the replacement power will 14be paid for not just in dollars but in the health of 15our most vulnerable citizens -- children, senior 16 citizens, the people we care so much about.

17 Thank you for taking this into account.

18 (Applause.)

19MR. BARKLEY: All right. Our next three 20speakers are Andy O'Connell of UWUA Local 1-2, Mark 21Jacobs, IBISCG -- IPSEC, I'm sorry, and Mark 22 Cooperman.

23MR. O'CONNELL: Good evening, everybody.

24My name is Andy O'Connell. I'm the Senior Business 25Agent for Utility Workers Union of America Local 1-2.

26 60 We represent members in all of the fossil fuel SID 1plants in the inner city, as well as the members in 2the Indian Point plant. We're intimately involved in 3generation, transmission, and distribution of 4 electricity.

5I'd like to stand up here and give an 6eloquent speech, but it's just not my style. I'd like 7to -- I've heard a lot of acronyms over the years from 8the different agencies and Indian Point itself. Who 9out there knows what KISS stands for? Keep It Simple.

10Keep It Simple, Stupid, in military terms. That's 11 what I'd like to do.

12On behalf of approximately 450 members 13that are working at the Indian Point Energy Center --

14local residents from the Hudson Valley, mothers, 15fathers, sisters, brothers, sons, daughters, 16taxpayers, and voters. I'm here to offer our support 17for the Indian Point Energy Center, which we all know 18 to be safe, secure, and necessary.

19Unlike the anti-nuclear, anti-industry, 20naysayers who at most have toured the plant, we are 21the ones who tighten every bolt. We check every 22meter, and we run every wire and every pipe in that 23plant. Like my union brothers and sisters, I would 24not enter that facility or send other workers into 25 that facility if it was not safe.

26 61I also see that safety on a daily basis.

1On behalf the Utility Workers Union of America Local 21-2, I ask that both the NRC and the community at 3large not be swayed by well-funded anti-nuclear 4groups, but rather look at the facts objectively when 5 passing judgment on the plant.

6Now, that's my prepared speech. You know, 7it wasn't that bad. One thing I'd like to say, I'd 8like to put it in layman's terms for a lot of people 9out there that don't fully understand what's going on 10and the eloquent speeches that everybody is giving.

11Energy or electricity is generated at 60 cycles a 12second. That means every 30 seconds, or 30 times a 13minute, the lights in this room are going off, and we 14 don't see it.

15Without Indian Point and the 20 percent of 16power that it produces, I'd like each and every one of 17you to go home and turn off the lights and everything 18that electricity runs for one out of every 10 minutes 19or 2.4 hours4.62963e-5 days <br />0.00111 hours <br />6.613757e-6 weeks <br />1.522e-6 months <br /> a day each and every day, because, like 20the gentleman before me said, there is nothing down 21 the line that's going to replace it.

22 Thank you very much.

23 (Applause.)

24MR. JACOBS: Good evening. My name is 25Mark Jacobs. I'm with the Indian Point Safe Energy 26 62Coalition. I guess we're one of the supposedly well-1funded groups that is being talked about. But if 2 anyone wants to see our budget, I think that very 3quickly you would see that that just isn't actually 4 the case.

5I'm a volunteer. I've worked on this 6issue as a volunteer for almost 10 years. And that's 7what I'm getting paid for at volunteer pay. That's 8 nothing.9I want to address a number of points. Mr.

10McDonald brought up the issue of the environmental 11impact of the plant and environmental justice issues.

12In order to defend that point, he cited plants solely 13within the burroughs of New York City. But what 14should be very clear, and I'm sure that if he does a 15little more research he'll find this for himself, that 16were Indian Point to be shut down it would not impact 17at all the running of the powerplants within New York 18 City. 19They are still going to be required to 20produce 80 percent of the power, and they are still 21going to be importing approximately 20 percent of the 22 power, whether Indian Point is open or closed.

23 (Applause.)

24 Let's talk about the environmental issues.

25 The environmental impact of Indian Point has to do 26 63with the environment of Indian Point itself. What is 1the environment at the Indian Point nuclear 2powerplant? It's an environment where we have ongoing 3leaks, leaks that have been going on for over two 4years, that we don't know the source of, we don't know 5the extent of, we don't know when they started, we 6don't know more -- much more than we do know about 7 those leaks.

8We have a guard caught sleeping at the 9plant again. We have an incredible number of 10unplanned shutdowns. We have an owner-operator who is 11not ready for inspectors when they come to do an 12inspection at the plant. That's the environmental 13impact. The impact of having an environment of a 14 plant run by Entergy in this way is a danger.

15Now, we also need to look at the impact by 16the plant being regulated by a federal agency like the 17Nuclear Regulatory Commission. And Ms. Rainwater 18raised some really important issues about how the NRC 19has been doing on certain issues. I want to raise 20another one. I read an article recently about how the 21Nuclear Regulatory Commission was going to deal with 22the fact that the sirens still are not functioning, 23 having missed three deadlines.

24Well, it isn't actually three deadlines.

25It's probably closer to 240 deadlines, because every 26 64day after the first deadline is when the sirens should 1have been ready. But the Nuclear Regulatory 2Commission has the ability to fine hundreds of 3thousands of dollars -- the owner-operator of the 4 plant hundreds of thousands of dollars each day.

5Now, what was -- the quote in the recent 6AP article about the approach of the NRC for the 7sirens, Mr. Sheehan was quoted as saying that "We're 8going to decide about what fines to impose after they 9get the sirens up and running." And I called him up 10right away. I actually called him up as soon as I 11read that and got him on the phone and said, "Neil, 12this has got to be a mistake, because your job is to 13impose fines in order to get Entergy to get the sirens 14working. If you wait until afterwards, what incentive 15do they have?" And they said, "No, no, we talked 16about it. We know we could fine -- impose fines every 17day, from now until the time that the sirens are 18 working." 19 And we all know if that were done the 20sirens would be up and running right away. But no, 21the Nuclear Regulatory Commission yet again has 22decided not to do its job of regulating and, 23therefore, the siren may be up and running in some 24 unspecified future.

25The issues that I want to talk about with 26 65-- directly with respect to the environment --

1environmental impact has to do with two or three 2things. First of all, the leaks -- the problem of the 3leaks have to be solved. It is absolutely 4irresponsible to consider relicensing this plant until 5the leaks -- the sources of the leaks are identified, 6they are stopped, and it's all cleaned up. That's 7 absolutely clear.

8In order to make sure that we don't have 9more leaks, you need to inspect all of the pipes at 10the plant. Now that's difficult. There are tens of 11thousands of feet of piping at that plant. But in 12order for the plant to be safely run, it would need to 13 be fully inspected.

14Now, we've heard a lot tonight about -- we 15heard Mr. McDonald say that Indian Point is emission-16free. We've heard a number of people speaking in 17support of Indian Point talk about how the fossil fuel 18plants produce so much greater environmental impact.

19And in certain ways fossil fuel plants do produce more 20environmental impact. But what we didn't hear any of 21them -- these people talk about is the environmental 22 impact of the radiation released from the plant.

23And I'm just going to read an excerpt of 24a statement that Joe Mangano and myself put together, 25and I'm going to be submitting this part of the 26 66 statement in writing, and it's fairly brief.

1FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Yes. Please keep it 2 brief. You've got about half a minute left.

3MR. JACOBS: Yes. I'll go the same seven 4minutes that Mr. Moore went, but then I won't go 5 beyond that. I think that's only fair.

6 Reactors routinely release radioactivity.

7Persons living near Indian Point would be exposed to 8more of these radioactive chemicals were Indian Point 9to be relicensed. Historically, Indian Point has a 10checkered record of contaminating the local 11 environment.

12Do people realize this? It released the 13fifth-most airborne radioactivity of 72 U.S. nuclear 14powerplants. Radioactivity levels in the Hudson River 15are over 10 times greater in this area than they are 16in Albany. Levels of strontium-90 in local baby teeth 17are the highest in any area near seven U.S. nuclear 18powerplants, and this amount of strontium-90, which is 19supposed to just have come from the bomb testing, has 20risen 38 percent -- 38 percent since the late 1980s 21 after the bomb testing had long stopped.

22 This record of contamination raises health 23concerns, which are heightened when considering that 24since 2000, in the four counties closest to Indian 25Point, childhood cancer incidence is 22 percent above 26 67the U.S. rate. Thyroid cancer incidence is 70 percent 1above the U.S. rate. And cancer incidence in the six 2towns within five miles of Indian Point is 20 percent 3greater than the rest of Rockland and Westchester 4 Counties.5If closing Indian Point results in 6decreases in cancer mortality in a way parallel to the 7closure of the Rancho Seco plant in California, 5,000 8fewer cancer deaths would occur in the next 20 years 9in Westchester, Rockland, Orange, and Putnam Counties.

10While many factors contribute to cancer risk, evidence 11suggests that more detailed study on Indian Point is 12warranted, and that the public be informed of any 13 health risks.

14The prudent policy would be not to grant 15license extension until the public better understands 16the extent of the threat that Indian Point presents to 17 local public health.

18 Thank you.

19FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you, Mark.

20 Thanks.21 (Applause.)

22 MR. BARKLEY: Mark Cooperman?

23MR. COOPERMAN: My name is Mark Cooperman.

24I'm a resident of Cortlandt Manor, have been a 25 resident for nearly 20 years.

26 68I'd like to consider myself just an 1average citizen of the community, and I want to kind 2of speak up for us average citizens who kind of get 3 pushed out of the way by special interest groups.

4I support the plant. My background is an 5architectural background. I understand about the 6viability of facilities, the need for proper 7inspection of facilities as they age, buildings 8throughout New York City. I hear things about aging 9 pipes in the nuclear plant.

10I would hope that the NRC does inspect the 11pipes and make sure that the facility is safe. My 12only concern is that to shut the plant down right now 13is going to be a big hardship on the region itself.

14There are no viable energy substitutions. I think 15back to my days coming out of college when they were 16 building the Shoreham plant out in Long Island.

17Long Island didn't build that plant, and 18now kind of they're suffering for power shortages, and 19don't want to let them lay cables across the Sound, 20nor do they want to be able to bring cables from New 21Jersey. So what are we going to do if we shut down 22 the plant?

23I have also seen, you know, people saying, 24"You shut down the plant, because the facilities are 25aging." Well, about a month ago in New York City 26 69there was a steam pipe explosion. Are we to shut down 1the streets of New York to guard against future steam 2pipe explosions? There's a certain of risk we're all 3 going to live with.

4I know the special interest groups try to 5say that they're looking out for my interest, my 6family's interest, my son's interest, but I'll tell 7you right now, without this plant, there's going to be 8 big hardship in the area, yes.

9Evacuation route, issues to be raised with 10our other officials in Washington -- specifically, if 11it's not with NRC, then it will have to be with FEMA.

12But shutting down the plant is not going to be the 13answer. There is nothing at this point to replace it.

14We -- you know, serving on local boards 15here in the community, we had a natural gas line that 16wanted to come through this pretty area -- very close 17to here. We had groups against it. Our homes run 18either on oil or gas or electric. There is no other 19substitution at this point. You have people that say, 20"Put hydrogen fuel cells" -- well, there's a problem 21with that at this point, and it may be a problem in 22 the near future as well.

23The only solution that we have in this 24community, in the region itself, is this plant. Close 25it down; you're going to be left with a gap. I've 26 70heard people say, "Gee, other facilities will fill the 1gap." Come here on a hundred-degree day, and most of 2your businesses are draining power from our grid, and 3 so where are you going to find that extra power?

4So basically, in conclusion, again, as a 5citizen of this community, for the average citizen who 6probably won't get up and have a voice, at least in a 7forum like this, listen to us as the average citizen 8and not as a special interest party. You turn out 9that plant, you're going to wind up turning out the 10 lights on a lot of us.

11 Good night.

12 (Applause.)

13MR. BARKLEY: All right. Our next three 14speakers, Maureen Ritter, Melvin Burruss of the Afro-15American Men of Westchester, and then Audrey Roberts 16 of Raging Grannies.

17FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'm sorry. What was 18 the first -- who was the first speaker?

19MR. BARKLEY: I believe we're going to 20just -- I believe we're going to skip the first 21 speaker.22FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Okay. Who was the 23 second speaker, then?

24 MR. BARKLEY: Melvin Burruss.

25MR. BURRUSS: Again, I'm Melvin Burruss, 26 71President of the African-American Men of Westchester.

1I want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to 2 voice our views also.

3What we believe in is we want to make sure 4that NRC does the best job possible when they are 5reviewing the Indian Point and nuclear energy and how 6it affects our community. And there's a couple of 7 points I just want to make.

8One is that, as the gentleman said 9earlier, that the demand for electricity has always 10grown, will continue to grow, even as efficiencies 11increases and new technologies are brought online.

12Right now, 50 percent of our electricity comes from 13coal, which results in billions of tons of greenhouse 14 gas emissions annually.

15Now, I'm looking at two issues here. One 16is the health issues, because, again, I'm a diabetic 17victim, I'm also a cancer victim, I'm also an asthma 18victim. So I have a lot here. I have a real concern 19 myself.20But replacing Indian Point with coal or 21natural gas will significantly increase airborne 22pollutants and toxins that are truly harmful, 23especially for our children, especially for our older 24 people, especially for folks like myself.

25The second part is Homeland Security.

26 72Nuclear power helps reduce our dependence on foreign 1sources of energy. Right now, gas controlled by 2Russia is $6. By reducing our need to buy natural gas 3from abroad at expensive market rates, domestic 4nuclear power helps reduce our dependence on foreign 5 energy sources and currency.

6Jobs and employment -- you take away the 7jobs at Indian Point, we will be suffering here. You 8know, they pay one of the highest dollar per hour in 9the area. And I can look around the room here today 10and see how many people will be affected, how many 11children will be affected. You talk about educating 12your children and sending them to college, and making 13 a better life for them.

14Jobs -- you know, I would be -- and I wish 15the NRC would look at the diversity at Indian Point.

16Are African-Americans getting their fair share of jobs 17in Indian Point? So we should realize how fortunate 18 we are to have Indian Point, because it serves our 19 needs, not only our electrical needs but our 20employment needs, taxes. Can you imagine how much 21 taxes would be in the area if we weren't being 22 subsidized by Indian Point?

23Indian Point and nuclear power -- nuclear 24power is one of the fastest-growing energy sources in 25the world. Why do you think Switzerland is all 26 73nuclear power? Why do you think France is all nuclear 1power? Why do you think China, which is one of the 2most pollutant countries in the world, is now with a 3revolution to go towards nuclear? There's a reason.

4It saves lives. It saves the environment. It saves 5our future, our world. And, of course, we always --

6we know about global warming and what is happening 7 with the greenhouse effect.

8The Arctic Ocean now -- the Arctic is 9depleting. We're having more floods in the coastal 10area, because of global warming, and that's because of 11more pollutants from coal. We have this plant over 12here in Haverscroll that's just spitting out 13pollutants, and Texans to come back across the river 14 to this area.

15You know, I wish some of these groups 16would go over there and tell them to shut down their 17coal plant or at least get it into regulation or get 18 into requirements to help us all out.

19So thank you for having us here, and I 20hope the NRC does really take a look at all of those 21areas, the health issues, the Homeland Security 22issues, and come up and do a good job as far as 23relicensing Indian Point, because we want it to be 24 safe.25 (Applause.)

26 74 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Thank you.

1MS. ROBERTS: Thank you for allowing us to 2come and speak with you tonight. We are the Raging 3Grannies and their friends of Westchester. We believe 4in the saying that we don't own the Earth; we are only 5 borrowing it for our children.

6We want to leave this area in good shape 7for them. Now, you can ask us what it's like to get 8old, and we can tell you. But there are some issues, 9 a lot of them.

10We have pollution, we have leaks, we have 11the chance of a terrorist attack, we have air quality, 12we have its site, we have the fact that so many people 13live so close, we have an evacuation plan that cannot 14 work.15So as grannies, because we know about what 16happens when we get old, we believe that Indian Point 17is too old, has too many problems to keep going. We 18hope the NRC will be very careful with the world we 19will leave to our kids and to our grandkids. And now 20we'd like to sing a song that one of our grannies has 21 written about Indian Point. Thank you for your 22 tolerance.

23PARTICIPANT: And we have copies for 24 anyone who would like to learn the lyrics.

25(Whereupon, a song was sung by the Raging 26 75Grannies. Sung to the tune of "My Bonnie 1 Lies Over the Ocean.")

2RAGING GRANNIES SINGING: Thank you, NRC, 3for this meeting, we know what you don't want to hear.

4Don't dare to extend this plant's license by even as 5much as one year. Yes, Entergy promises safety, but 6sometimes their sirens don't blow. And strontium 7 leaks are polluting, so Indian Point has to go.

8No nukes, no nukes, Indian Point has to go 9right now. No nukes, no nukes, yes, Indian Point has 10 to go.11This plant is unsafe for employees, but we 12don't want anyone fired. Retrain them for alternate 13energy, and make sure that they get rehired. This 14plant is a terrorist target, why not use much less 15toxic fuels. Convert to a natural gas plant; secure 16 those nuclear waste pools.

17No nukes, no nukes, Indian Point has to go 18right now. No nukes, no nukes, yes, Indian Point has 19 to go.20Once Indian Point was reviewed by an 21expert whose name was James Witt. He proved that 22 evacuation by Entergy's plan was worth... nada.

23 (Laughter.)

24Thanks, NRC, for your attention, we're 25glad that you all stayed awake. We care about our 26 76 environment; please care for others' sake.

1 (Applause.)

2Shut it down, shut it down, Indian Point 3is unsafe, we know. Shut it down, shut it down, 4 Indian Point has to go.

5 MS. ROBERTS: Thank you.

6 (Applause.)

7FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Very nice. Thank 8you, ladies. I think this is the first time that 9we're going to have lyrics read into a meeting for the 10 transcript.

11 (Laughter.)

12MR. BARKLEY: All right. Maureen Ritter, 13 you get the pleasure of going after that act.

14 (Laughter.)

15MS. RITTER: My name is Maureen Ritter.

16 I'm a resident of Rockland County, a mother of two 17children, and a founding member of Friends United for 18Sustainable Energy. And that was a tough act to 19 follow.20I come here tonight as a former member of 21the Electrical Workers Union in Rockland County and a 22current member of the Teachers Union. And my reason 23for being here tonight, there are many things that are 24being sited among -- which are several things that 25 fall out of the scope of the environmental siting.

26 77I have two children who I feel, along with 1the other children of the Hudson Valley, are very 2 vulnerable to the fallout that occurs from Indian 3Point. I know that there is radiation released as a 4normal functioning of the plant, and that these 5releases used to be posted, which is now difficult 6 information to get.

7But the NRC seems to, in my very unlegal 8mind and very simple mind, seems to change the rules 9to fit the relicensing of this plant and others. Very 10frankly, this plant is my prime concern as opposed to 11others across the nation, but I do feel it's time to 12look beyond nuclear. I do feel that many of the 13representatives of neighborhoods of color tonight, and 14different organizations, have been sold in addition a 15 false set of goods.

16I know that Entergy does pour a lot of 17money into the communities, and I would like you to 18examine your feelings on how you will feel when 19Entergy wants to come in and set up maybe a nuclear 20storage site in your community and see how you feel 21about having that. I think what we're experiencing is 22kind of reverse racism here. So I don't think that 23you should buy this -- the bill of goods you're being 24 sold.25Just some other things that I think that 26 78need to be looked at are the seismic issues, the fault 1that runs under the plant, and which has been I think 2entered into the record today, the security of the 3spent fuel pools, the -- I do believe there has to be 4eventual cancer studies that are done in the areas, 5put that to rest, and, no, environmental groups do not 6have the endless money that the industry and the 7 government has.

8We need to depend on our government and 9the NRC to conduct these studies. More sampling has 10to take place of the bones of the wildlife surrounding 11the plant. There are many issues to talk on that will 12be entered into the record, but as a mother I -- just 13coming here tonight, just like the gentleman who spoke 14from Cortlandt Manor, that I don't want Indian Point 15 in my backyard.

16I feel that you need to open up your -- I 17think you need to open up other considerations when 18reconsidering the relicensing. It's not something I 19 want until I'm 90.

20 Thank you.

21 (Applause.)

22MR. BARKLEY: Our next three speakers --

23Tom Johnson, the President of the Cortland Engine 24Company, Ms. Kahn, and then, finally, Victor Tufur of 25 Riverkeeper. Tom, are you here? Okay, great.

26 79MR. JOHNSON: Good evening. I want to 1talk to you and share with you briefly why I came here 2tonight. I'd like to thank the NRC for giving this 3opportunity to talk about environmental impacts as 4well as just the plant in general and what it means to 5 us in greater society here in the Hudson Valley.

6I originally come from Long Island, and a 7few people have -- one of my neighbors was talking 8about the Shoreham plant. I lived in Culmac, which 9was pretty far from it, but all of Long Island was 10averse -- very adversely impacted by the mistakes and 11the mishandling, weighing in by the fearmongers, of 12 what could happen in the worst-case scenarios.

13And when I went to college in 1987, Long 14Island was a vibrant place with rising home prices, a 15beautiful place to raise a family. And what happened 16in that four years, when I came home it was just a 17different world. The State of New York and the 18Governor at the time decided the best way to deal with 19this would be to close the plant -- it was open for a 20day -- and would raise everybody's rates seven percent 21a year for 10 years. Now, any mathematician will tell 22 you that's about doubling your rates.

23As soon as that deal was inked, the 24largest employer on Long Island, which was in Nassau 25County -- Grumman, Grumman made fighter planes and a 26 80lot of our fleet in the military -- they looked at the 1State and the Governor and said, "Sorry, we're out of 2 here." 3 So that didn't do too well for the 4environment. And when I came home looking for a job 5from college, all my father's friends were out of 6work. And Long Island -- unemployment was high 7nationally and real estate values were dropping 8nationally. It was twice as bad on Long Island.

9There was just no opportunity. You had to hit the 10road. People were putting illegal basements --

11illegal apartments in their basements to pay their 12 taxes. I mean, it was just not the thing to do.

13I moved up here and a lot of my friends 14would come up and visit me, and I would say, "Yes, you 15know" -- they'd say, "What are your property taxes?" 16and I'd say, "Well, they're this." They'd say, "Oh, 17my God, we pay twice that." And I said, "Well, I have 18a nuclear powerplant about two miles from my house, 19 and I'm not going to close it." 20You see, it's more than just money. It's 21more than just affordability. It's safety. I am a 22volunteer firefighter with the Cortland Engine 23Company. I moved up here, and I noticed a lot of 24people in this community who are good, hardworking, 25blue collar people, much like the area I grew up in.

26 81And they can afford to live here, and, you know, in 1Westchester County affordable housing is -- it's kind 2of like jumbo shrimp. It doesn't -- you know, it's 3one of those words that really doesn't mean anything.

4But in our area, because of reasonable property taxes, 5working class families can afford to live here and 6 raise a family and thrive here.

7You know, Entergy has been very good to a 8lot of people in the First Responders. Not just did 9they help buy us equipment, equipment that was used at 10-- that helped on 9/11, like a cascade system, but 11they -- we train there on hazardous material training.

12And when you realize that the hazard of what's going 13on underneath that dome pales in comparison to most of 14the environmental hazards that are out there, like 15chlorine and mercury and all of these other things 16that don't have a half-life, they live forever and 17 ever and ever and never go away.

18The safeties that are at Indian Point are 19not just looked over by the government. They're not 20just looked over by the community. But the people who 21 work there live in this community.

22One of the operators, one of the licensed 23operators of that plant, is the Chief of the Verplank 24Fire Department. They are first do if there's ever an 25 incident on that scene. They have a fire brigade 26 82there. We all train together. They talk about 1inadequate emergency response. Well, I could tell 2you, we've trained there plenty of times. It's not 3 inadequate.

4We've gone over a lot of different 5details. We've gone through tabletops. We've looked 6at a lot of different scenarios to protect the public.

7The reality is the reaction that goes underneath that 8dome -- and the good doctor was talking about it 9 earlier.

10A lot of people didn't want to accept what 11he had to say, but I can tell you this. I'm not a 12scientist, but when I went to college I went for a 13biochemistry degree. And a lot of things that are 14done in that plant on a scale of one to -- you can't 15compare a nuclear bomb to a nuclear plant. There's 16just no basis of comparison. It's like comparing an 17apple to a pineapple. Yes, they're both fruit, but 18you wouldn't want to pick them both up and take a bite 19 out of them.

20What goes on in that plant is so low 21level, and the people that are around it, it's so low 22level that if they go get an X-ray, they can't go to 23work for two days because they'll set off all the 24sensors. Now, what does that tell you? That there is 25more radiation in a tobacco plant than there is in any 26 83of the equipment that's at Indian Point, and people 1 smoke all the time.

2What goes on there is not a public safety 3hazard. It's a steam generator. Steam is generated 4at 212 degrees Fahrenheit, not 20,000 degrees. The 5reaction that is there is safe. Yes, there are some 6environmental concerns, but you have to weigh out the 7whole preponderance of the evidence and not focus on 8this one leak or that one situation. You have to look 9 at the whole picture.

10And when you look at the whole picture, 11Indian Point is -- you know, people have worked there 12their entire adult lives. They haven't gotten sick, 13and they haven't died from working there. That speaks 14a lot more volumes than what could be. Thirty-five 15years is a pretty long test period for a health 16situation. And if people can work there, union men, 17carpenters, steamfitters, everybody, and they can 18spend their entire life there, their entire working 19career, and not get sick, then what are we talking 20 about? 21You know, in the First Responders Corps 22 when we -- we gauge --

23MR. BARKLEY: I'm going to have to ask you 24 to wrap up here.

25MR. JOHNSON: I'm wrapping up in two -- in 26 84less than a minute, in less than 30 seconds. We 1 gauge --2 MR. BARKLEY: Less than 30 seconds.

3MR. JOHNSON: We gauge health and safety 4by sickness and death. Sickness and death at all the 5nuclear powerplants combined is zero, and that's the 6 real number.

7Thank you very much, and thank you for 8 listening.

9 (Applause.)

10 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Ms. Kahn?

11MS. KAHN: Good evening. My name is Karen 12Kahn. I've been a resident of Westchester my entire 13life, and have lived in this area since 1973. My 14concerns are, like everybody else's, to live in a 15 healthy environment.

16The nuclear plant is a hot topic. It has 17spewn or leaked contaminated material into bedrock, 18 which cannot be cleaned up, therefore leaving it a 19site that's contaminated and half-lives, as we know, 20 forever.

21Locally, it is also a concern for the 22economic situation in the community. If the plant 23were to move, it would definitely cause a lot of 24financial hardship. I don't think anybody could 25 afford to live in this area.

26 85That being said, we need to make a 1reasonable alternative to place -- find a plant that 2is in a less populated area, and make it economically 3worthwhile to -- since this is a business proposition, 4to place a plant in a less populated area, make it 5economically advantageous for a company to invest in 6transmission wires from a more isolated area, to 7 provide us with the electricity we need.

8We need to keep ourselves safe. Nobody 9here wants to have to move. We couldn't move in an 10emergency. Let's find some economic way to put this 11 plant in a less populated area.

12 Thank you.

13 (Applause.)

14 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Victor?

15FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'm sorry. What was 16 the name, Rich?

17MR. BARKLEY: Richard Tufur from 18Riverkeeper. I don't think I saw Victor earlier.

19 Okay. Let me call another person.

20FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Do we -- yes, let's 21go ahead, and then Victor can go after -- who do we 22 have up next?

23MR. BARKLEY: Actually, a gentleman we 24called earlier who wasn't available, Frank Fraley, 25 Mount Vernon Hospital Center.

26 86MR. FRALEY: Good evening. My name is 1Frank Fraley. I'm from Mount Vernon Hospital. I'm 2the Vice President for Advancement. The hospital is 3located in Mount Vernon, New York. Our core patient 4population comes from the Mount Vernon area and the 5 surrounding communities, Yonkers, Bronx, New Rochelle.

6Our hospital has many challenges, and we 7are honored to be associated with Entergy. We 8approached them many months ago and explained the need 9for a new emergency department there at the hospital 10in lower Westchester, and they were gracious and 11 stepped to the plate and helped us a great deal.

12Our emergency department serves over 1320,000 visits a year. It is the primary care for many 14in that population, and the assistance of Entergy will 15 help us a great deal.

16There's another reason why I'm here 17tonight. The city of Mount Vernon is not unlike many 18major cities, major mid-sized cities. It's the eighth 19largest city in the State of New York. It has a great 20deal of affluence, and scattered among it are deep 21 economic challenges.

22Living in a modern city like that comes 23with the opportunity -- many opportunities and many 24conveniences. It also comes with significant health 25care challenges. The city has multiple highways 26 87running through it, alongside it. There's the Bronx 1 River Parkway, Hutchison River Parkway, Interstate 95, 2Cross County Parkway, to name a few. And the city is 3home to a very large industrial and manufacturing 4 population.

5The region of this country has already 6been recognized by the EPA as having some of the worst 7air quality in the nation. It is, in fact -- it is a 8fact that many suffer from it -- poor air quality, and 9working -- our working relationship with the 10 institution, we treat many individuals in emergency 11 situations as a result of that poor air quality.

12I can attest to the fact that asthma and 13other respiratory illnesses are very real and a very 14real result of fossil fuel sources. Without Indian 15Point, many other fossil fuel sources in the region 16would increase, as would the problems that I've 17 outlined in these areas.

18I'm proud to be a representative of Mount 19Vernon Hospital, and I'm proud to partner with this 20fine corporation. Partnering with Entergy is the --

21is in the best interest of the residents of Mount 22Vernon, and in the best interest of the patients that 23 we serve.24 Thank you very much.

25 (Applause.)

26 88 MR. BARKLEY: Thank you, sir.

1One housekeeping item to go over.

2Unfortunately, someone with New York license plate NY 322 is double-parked and is blocking some cars. So if 4you have a vehicle with NY 22 for your license plate, 5 please move your car. Thanks very much.

6FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I'd like to point 7out that it's about 9:00, so we've got about an hour 8left. I think that we may be able to get through the 9number of yellow cards that we have left, so I'm going 10to ask people, again, try to keep to the five minutes 11or under rule, and that will allow everyone hopefully 12 to get up and speak that we have left.

13Rich, can you give us the next couple of 14 people?15MR. BARKLEY: Yes. And we actually have 16 10 cards for 60 minutes.

17Next two people, Margo Schepart of the 18Westchester Citizens Awareness Network, and then 19Marcia Gordon of the Business Council of Westchester.

20MS. SCHEPART: Regarding relicensing, if 21it is the NRC's role as regulators to protect public 22safety, it really defies reason for them to hide 23behind this toilet paper roll of regulations in order 24to avoid considering the multitude of features 25surrounding Indian Point that make it totally 26 89 unsuitable for relicensing.

1We all know what they are -- the proximity 2to New York, the population growth, no evacuation, the 3history of mechanical problems, the unplugged leaking 4of radiological materials, ongoing unknown health 5effects, prime terrorist target. And it's very 6frustrating that every question or objection that is 7raised is always answered by, "Oh, that is -- that's 8covered on page 980, Section 3, page 6, of our 9 rulebook, paragraph 6." It's frustrating.

10However, if, in the interest of supporting 11the nuclear industry, in fact the role of the NRC is 12to follow the intricate series of regulations, which 13will never lead to any conclusions that reflect 14reality, then it makes sense for them to conduct 15 themselves the way that they do.

16Patriotism was mentioned tonight. The 17real patriotic thing for Americans to do is to use our 18good American brains to figure out a way to change our 19wasteful energy habits, to stop wasting what we have.

20We waste about 40 percent of our energy, if not more.

21To stop pouring billions of government dollars into 22dangerous forms of energy, and to use our resources to 23develop real, safe, clean energy that doesn't require 24 evacuation plans.

25That's real, safe, clean energy. And to 26 90work out the kinks of the alternate forms of power and 1put the resources there and get some really good 2 results. The resources have not gone there. The 3 resources have gone into nuclear.

4More nuclear reactors cannot halt climate 5change. We would need 300 reactors in the United 6States to make any impact, and reactors take a long 7time to build -- seven to 10 years. Fossil fueled 8vehicles, not electricity, are the biggest problem for 9 global warming.

10Taking away the nuclear -- adding more 11nuclear power is not going to reduce the fossil fuel 12vehicle pollution that's adding to the asthma and 13other things that are creating health problems in 14communities. Nobody here wants filthy coal plants.

15Nobody. That's silly to even talk about filthy coal 16 plants that nobody wants.

17I've been coming to these meetings for a 18really long time, and this is really my point I want 19to make for the record. I've been coming to these 20meetings for a really long time, but tonight I think, 21with the statements of some of the speakers, I 22witnessed a unique event in the history of nuclear 23technology. I really think that as a result of some 24of the statements of tonight's speakers that a new 25radioactive isotope, in amounts clearly above 26 91regulatory concern, has been released into the 1 environment. Bullshittium.

2 Thank you.

3 (Applause.)

4MR. BARKLEY: All right. Again, Marcia 5Gordon was called. Somebody was going to act and read 6her statement in her absence. Sir, if you could give 7 us your name, please.

8MR. LAWRENCE: Not a problem. Good 9afternoon. I'm sorry, good evening, been here for a 10while. I'm Laurent Lawrence. I'm Executive Director 11of the New York Affordable Reliable Electricity Lines.

12I'm reading on behalf of our member, the Westchester 13Business Council, and I'll just go ahead and read 14 this.15The Westchester Business -- the Business 16Council of Westchester is the county's largest 17business organization, representing nearly 1,400 18members ranging in size from multi-national 19corporations and mid-sized business to professional 20 firms, not-for-profit organizations, and small 21business owners in every sector of the county's 22 diverse economy.

23The Business Council of Westchester 24advocates for Westchester's business community at a 25local, state, and federal level, and works to enhance 26 92economic opportunity in Westchester by addressing a 1broad range of public affairs and area development, 2economic, and business development issues that affect 3the growth and -- the growth of business in the 4 community.

5With 34,000 businesses in Westchester 6County, employing over 400,000 -- I'm sorry, 408,700 7workers with a total annual payroll of more than 8$19 billion, we feel the permanent closure of the 9Indian Point Energy Center will cause irreparable 10damage to the regional economy due to the large amount 11of electricity, jobs, and tax -- that the site 12 provides.13From Indian Point's generation of 2,000 14megawatts of much-needed electricity to its 15distribution of 356 million in payroll and local 16purchases to the over 50,000 -- $50 million paid in 17local taxes, including sales tax, payroll tax, 18property tax, and state and local income tax, the site 19is a major economic engine that drives business to 20Westchester County and keeps business from running to 21 other counties across the country.

22We have been the economic -- we have been 23the economic devastation -- we have seen -- I'm sorry.

24We have seen the economic devastation caused by the 25 dramatic disruption of electricity supply both in 26 93recent memory -- the blackout of 2003 -- as well as 1the continued hardship faced by thousands of Long 2Island residents who pay some of the highest utility 3bills in the United States because of the infamous 4 Shoreham nuclear plant debacle.

5Shoreham was a clear example of the needs 6of the few outweighing the ongoing needs of the many, 7and the Council does not wish to see Indian Point, to 8 the residents running the facility, suffer the same 9 fate.10In addition, as owner and operator of 11Indian Point, the Entergy corporation remains a 12critical major employer and corporate philanthropist, 13donating millions of dollars to a myriad of worthy 14causes -- hospitals, educational institutions, 15 regional associations, and municipalities.

16Without their continuing service to the 17community, the vital investments in nonprofit programs 18and projects, we will see a dramatic decrease in the 19number of non-governmental groups and associations 20serving a wide variety of constituents -- hungry, 21homeless, elderly, children in need, sick, infirmed, 22 etcetera.23For the aforementioned reasons, the 24Business Council of Westchester hereby supports the 25petition for the relicensing of the Indian Point 26 94Energy Center. We look forward to the hearing from --

1we look forward to hearing from you regarding this 2 matter.3Sincerely, Marcia Gordon, President, The 4 Business Council of Westchester.

5 Thank you very much.

6 (Applause.)

7FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Sir, did we get a 8copy of that, so we could include it? Okay. Thank 9 you.10MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Our next three 11speakers -- Tom Klein of the Boilermakers 12 Local Number 5 --

13 (Applause.)

14Very good. Secondly, I understood a 15statement was going to be read on behalf of Katie 16Dunlap of Clearwater, and then, finally, Doris 17Mandolero of the Rockland County Conservation 18 Association.

19 So, Tom, do you want to come up?

20MR. KLEIN: Good evening. My name is Tom 21Klein. I represent Boilermakers Local 5. We cover a 22jurisdiction from Kingston, New York, to New York City 23and Long Island. We work in the powerplants. What we 24do is we built from new construction, we do 25 maintenance work, and we do emergency repair work.

26 95I really don't have too much prepared for 1tonight for this speech, but what I'd like to mention 2is that Indian Point is the safest and cleanest plant 3we work in, that all of the other powerhouses that 4we've been in are much more pollutant type and that --

5no, I haven't heard anyone mention tonight about the 6plant that's right next door, Charles Point -- it's a 7garbage burner. And I don't see where that's, as a 8pollutant -- I'm sorry, I think there's more pollution 9 from that plant than comes from Indian Point.

10I know the restrictions are different, but 11I think that the scrutiny should be both the same on 12 them both.

13 Thank you.

14 (Applause.)

15 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. I believe you --

16MS. MADRONERO: (Inaudible comment from an 17 unmiked location.)

18MR. BARKLEY: All right. We'll pass on 19 that, then. Doris Mandolero.

20 MS. MADRONERO: Close.

21 MR. BARKLEY: Mandolero?

22 MS. MADRONERO: Dorice.

23 MR. BARKLEY: Dorice.

24 MS. MADRONERO: Madronero.

25 MR. BARKLEY: All right.

26 96MS. MADRONERO: Good evening, and thank 1you for the opportunity to speak. I'm with the 2 Rockland County Conservation Association, one of those 3very ill-funded organizations. We're all volunteers, 4 founded in 1930.

5Before I read the comment, I just have an 6observation. In a de-regulated electricity market, 7I'm wondering, with all these subsidies that we're 8 hearing about going to the community, we understand 9that the government has great subsidies going to the 10nuclear industry, and I wonder how that is affected 11and what the considerations are in a free trade open 12commerce market, what the implications are, where 13these great subsidies are going, and why the nuclear 14 industry seems to be getting a leg up.

15Further, the money that we hear being 16passed through offered to the communities to willing 17takers, I wonder, is this money that is just being 18 passed through from government subsidies than then 19Entergy can come out looking like the great community 20 hero, actually using federal funding. That's 21something I would hope that someone is going to pursue 22the financial implications of a free trade, 23deregulated electricity market where there is fair and 24 balanced commerce.

25The Rockland County Conservation 26 97Association has opposed Indian Point facilities since 1Indian 1 was first proposed. Throughout the years of 2reviews and assurances of compliance and safety, our 3confidence in the safety of this facility has been 4greatly challenged by radioactive leaks, personnel 5literally sleeping at the switch, and failed promises 6to meet deadlines of a fully functioning siren system.

7Now, we were called upon again to believe 8that all is safe and well with a facility that is 9 leaking strontium-90 and tritium and has unplanned 10 shutdowns -- otherwise, I guess accidents.

11As recent as September 11, 2007, The 12Journal News reported "Feds suspend inspection at 13Indian Point." The Nuclear Regulatory Commission has 14suspended an inspection at Indian Point 3 after 15federal experts found plant officials unprepared to 16answer questions about a series of unplanned shutdowns 17that led the agency to lower the reactor's safety 18 rating in April.

19"They just didn't have the documentation 20we needed," said NRC regional spokesman Neil Sheehan, 21noting that "such suspensions are rare, but also the 22types of questions we were asking they did not have 23the answers for at this point." Again, public 24confidence for the safety of this facility is 25 marginalized.

26 98Further, the article reports Kathy 1McMullin, an Indian Point spokeswoman, said the matter 2was "really much ado about nothing" and wouldn't have 3reached the level of public notification without the 4current regulatory climate surrounding the plant. So 5 she is getting a little Shakespearean on us.

6 In this particular environment, the NRC --

7or the abundance of caution side, as we have done on 8issues that on their face may not seem all that 9significant, she said, "It's not necessarily routine 10that an inspection would be postponed, but it's not 11 that unusual either." 12So we are to understand that the NRC has 13made an error in judgment, and that the postponement 14of an inspection because the operator of a nuclear 15facility was unprepared to answer questions about the 16operation of its own facility would not have been 17revealed if it were not for the regulatory climate 18 surrounding the plant.

19Does this infer "out of sight out of mind" 20is an acceptable position for a nuclear facility 21operator? The residents in the Hudson Valley have 22just been advised of the FAA's decision to increase 23air traffic in the region. Rockland County residents 24were not advised until just a few weeks before the 25 closing period.

26 99Were the FAA -- okay. Where there were 1few to no aircraft flying over Rockland County, we can 2now expect up to 600 flights per day, increasing the 3noise level. On average, every two to three minutes, 4the noise of aircraft flying overhead will be heard.

5Entergy's environmental review reports no foreseeable 6 related federal projects were identified.

7As the FAA redesigned project is a federal 8project, we ask that the effect of the background 9noise of increased air traffic might have -- what it 10might have on the efficacy of the emergency alert 11system. Specifically, was the system designed to be 12heard over the increased noise coming from the 13increased noise levels of the projected air traffic in 14Rockland County? That is a federal project that's 15 approved.16And then, the other one is we have a 17desalination plant that has been proposed by United 18 Water New York that will be placed either in Stony 19Point or Haverscroll, exact location yet to be 20determined. And we ask that, although it doesn't 21exist now, that it be considered in the review process 22because that is intended to be drinking water for over 23 260,000 people.

24Additionally, if at this point you suggest 25it's not appropriate, if it's not built, when it is 26 100built, if it is built, we would ask that there be some 1caveat in the system that would require an assessment 2of the impacts of this fugitive leakage of strontium-390 and tritium and other radionuclides that are in the 4Hudson River, and what the impacts would be, because 5the ratepayers of United Water certainly should not be 6paying for the reclamation of radionuclides coming 7 from -- potentially coming from Indian Point 2 or 3.

8 Thank you.

9 MR. BARKLEY: Thank you.

10 (Applause.)

11FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I just wanted to 12make one comment. I had a gentleman pull me aside and 13he had already spoken, and he asked if it was okay 14that he would write something down to be included into 15the transcript, and that's definitely allowed. You 16 can definitely do that.

17So if you're sitting in the audience and 18you don't want to speak, or you've already spoken, or 19you just come up with an idea and you want to jot it 20down, we will include that as part of the transcript, 21just like we're doing with any of the statements that 22people are reading that they are submitting as written 23 comments as well.

24 So I just wanted to get that out there.

25 Rich, who is next?

26 101MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Al Samuels of 1Rockland Business Alliance is first, followed by Bob 2 Seeger, the No Rights in Machinery Erectors Local 3 1740, and then, finally, Patrick Canino of NYPIRG.

4 Mr. Samuels?

5PARTICIPANT: Thanks, Rich. I am not Mr.

6 Samuels.7MR. BARKLEY: All right. You are speaking 8 on behalf of him.

9PARTICIPANT: Al is up in Albany this 10evening for a New York State Business Council event, 11but he asked me to read his statement into the record.

12The Rockland Business Association is the 13county's largest business organization, representing 14991 corporate, mid-sized, and small businesses. We 15are the advocates for Rockland's business community at 16the local, state, and federal levels, and work to 17enhance economic opportunities in Rockland by 18addressing a broad range of public affairs and area 19development, economic and business development issues 20 that affect the growth of business in the county.

21Recently, the Business Council of New York 22State, of which the RBA is a member, surveyed almost 231,100 council members to identify top priorities for 24action in 2007. These members ranked the cost of 25doing business as their greatest concern in New York, 26 102with a special focus on energy costs. Electric rates 1in New York run 70 percent above the national average, 2and there is a clear need for more generating capacity 3to keep cost down, as well as a great demand to direct 4low cost power to employers and growth industries 5 throughout the state.

6Given this business climate of an ever-7increasing demand for affordable, reliable, and 8environmentally sound power generation, the RBA 9believes the closure of Indian Point Energy Center 10would create a dramatically adverse effect on the 11state's energy grid and impose undue hardship upon 12thousands of businesses and millions of residents 13 throughout the state.

14Indian Point generates 2,000 megawatts of 15critical electricity, over $356 million in payroll and 16local purchases, in addition to over $50 million paid 17in local taxes. Overall, Indian Point produces over 18$700 million in economic activity through the five 19counties surrounding the site, as well as over a 20billion dollars in economic activity in New York 21 State.22 For these reasons, we believe the facility 23should be relicensed. Having stated the above, we 24feel we would be remiss to not acknowledge that there 25 are those in our community who oppose this action.

26 103While we sympathize with their concerns, we note that 1Entergy has an ongoing program to address safety -- to 2address issues of safety and potential terrorist 3threat. We encourage the company to maintain those 4 efforts in the most aggressive manner.

5 Sincerely, Al Samuels, President, Rockland 6 Business Association.

7 (Applause.)

8MS. SCHEPART: And we have -- and for him 9to speak on our behalf, there was never a vote for the 10 Rockland Business Association. That's his personal 11 statement. Let the record show that.

12FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Okay. Let the 13record show that that was his own personal statement.

14 Rich, who do we have next?

15 MR. BARKLEY: Bob Seeger. There we go.

16MR. SEEGER: Good evening. My name is Bob 17Seeger. I'm the Business Manager from 18Millwright Local 740. We are the group of people that 19does the steam turbines and generators that create the 20 lights that are now blinding me.

21The first thing I'd like to say is that 22I'm not a shell for anyone. I get no money from 23Entergy. It costs me money to belong to New York 24Area. I happen to believe in nuclear power, and I 25also believe in what New York Area does, and they are 26 104 not just limited to Indian Point.

1They are a diverse group of people that 2are interested in an energy plan for New York State, 3one that differs quite a bit with the Governor's. I 4don't have a prepared statement. I don't know how 5people find the time to have one. But I did make some 6 notes listening to people.

7 I would like to thank the NRC for the 8opportunity to come up here and speak. With regard to 9Indian Point closing -- and I'll get this out of the 10way real quick -- yes, my members get jobs from Indian 11Point. They get paid very good salaries for working 12at Indian Point for approximately 43 days out of every 13year. Then, they go on to another powerhouse that 14 we've probably built and do the maintenance on.

15If Indian Point was closed, I would 16probably get more work out of it, because they'd have 17to build powerhouses to replace the 2,000 megawatts of 18 power that come from there.

19I have worked in Indian Point myself for 20the first 28 years. I worked -- the first time I 21worked at Indian Point was as an apprentice in 1972.

22Because of my size and the fact that I used to be 40 23pounds smaller, I could get into areas in those 24machines that other people couldn't get into, which 25 meant I was right in the middle of the steam path.

26 105I get a physical every year. So far, they 1tell me that I am perfect physical condition, other 2 than the ice cream that I eat.

3 I think there's a great many 4misconceptions about Indian Point and about nuclear 5power. And I sit here and I sit in the back of the 6room, and I watch people that look like they're ready 7to leap at somebody that should speak positively about 8nuclear power. It's a very emotional issue, and I 9 don't that emotions are going to get the job done.

10And I'm sure that the NRC is going to see, on an 11 unemotional level, that Indian Point is necessary.

12With regards to the environment, I don't 13think that it's just the air and the water that you 14have to be concerned with. If you take a look at part 15of the environment -- I think it's if you walk down 16the street, and take a look at the businesses that are 17supported by Indian Point, there is a delicatessen on 18 the corner of Bleakley Avenue and 9A that has been 19 there since the first time I came up here in 1972.

20I'm willing to bet that if you close 21Indian Point you will close that delicatessen and 22several of the other businesses that are around the 23area -- machine shops, bars, restaurants, diners, that 24get the majority of their funding from the businesses 25 that work with Entergy.

26 106I've heard some pretty, I think, careless 1statements about what go on -- goes on in Indian Point 2as far as it being safe. I've stated here once before 3that the members of my local are like family to me, 4and I wouldn't put my family in an unsafe environment 5to work. To say that that place is an unsafe place to 6work is to tell several hundred people that work there 7 on a daily basis that they are suicidal.

8There are many families that have been 9born and raised throughout that plant. I've seen many 10women in that plant that were pregnant, carried their 11kids to term, and have very healthy children, that 12 have gone to college, all from that one plant.

13 With regards to the coal-fired plants that 14are on the other side of the river that we also work 15in, there is a plant for those plants over there. And 16the plan is to close them down by the end of this 17year. And if you think that's a positive thing, try 18 and think of where you're going to get the lights, 19where are you going to get the electric, because the 20same thing will happen over here. And as hot as this 21room was when we first started this meeting, I'm sure 22everybody appreciates the fact that there's electric.

23I came up here because I'm part of the 24building trades of Westchester County and New York 25 City. I'm also a resident of Dutchess County that 26 107lives 19 miles from here. I would just like to see 1the conversation and the dialogue take a little bit of 2a different turn where people talk level-headed, 3 unemotional, and about the facts.

4 Thank you for the time.

5 (Applause.)

6 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Thank you, Bob.

7FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: By my watch, we're 8coming up on 9:30. I'd like to thank everyone who has 9stuck it out to this point. We're going to try to get 10 through -- how many more speakers, Rich?

11 MR. BARKLEY: Five.

12FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Fire more speakers.

13So hopefully we can get through those within, you 14know, five minutes apiece or less, and get out of here 15 on time, if not maybe even a little early.

16MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Patrick Canino, 17 NYPIRG?18MR. CANINO: Good evening. My name is 19Patrick Canino. I'm a member of NYPIRG, and a student 20at SUNY New Palz. I'm within 30 miles of Indian 21 Point.22In the NRC's review of Indian Point, they 23must include the safety and security issues facing us 24today. They must use data from 2007, not the data or 25 analysis taken from 30 years ago. The population, 26 108 density, and political climate of 30 years ago has 1changed dramatically, and the Review Board must 2 address these changes before considering the relicense 3 of this plant with such an abysmal safety record.

4I hope the Review Board takes all of these 5things into consideration and makes the proper choice.

6 Thank you.

7 (Applause.)

8 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Thank you.

9Rich, do you want to give us the next 10 speaker?11MR. BARKLEY: Yes. The next two, Barbara 12Homyk with Entergy and Phillip Banks with One Hundred 13 Black Men. Barbara?

14MS. HOMYK: I'd like to thank the NRC for 15letting me speak. My name is Barbara Homyk. I'm a 16 Chemistry Specialist at Indian Point.

17And in response to what I've heard here 18tonight, I just had a couple of comments. First of 19all, it seems as though -- the way people talk, it 20sounds as though we spend lots of time with the NRC 21and that we're buddies. Well, that isn't exactly the 22 way, at least for people at my level. The NRC is 23there to regulate us. They set the rules for us, and 24it's not like we're friends. We do what they tell us, 25and we respect their judgment. So I'm hoping the NRC 26 109 will give us a fair, reasonable evaluation.

1My other comment is that I'm a mother, and 2I've heard other people say things about being mothers 3in the area. I was a chemistry supervisor at Indian 4Point. I actually oversaw the radiochemical analysis 5when I was pregnant with my older son. I was at the 6plant up until I was eight months pregnant, and that 7baby is now going to be graduating in May with Honors 8 from Georgetown University. So it's not all bad.

9We are careful with what we do. We know 10we have some problems. We're working hard to solve 11them, and hopefully this relicensing will come about.

12And I just wanted to say that I support relicensing at 13 Indian Point as a proud employee of Entergy.

14 Thank you.

15 (Applause.)

16 MR. BARKLEY: Phillip?

17FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Sir, if you could 18just introduce yourself again once you get to the 19 podium.20MR. GREEN: Hi. I'm David Green, and I'm 21reading the record -- reading the statement of Phillip 22 Banks for the record.

23I am Phillip Banks, President of One 24Hundred Black Men. One Hundred Black Men is an 25international organization founded in New York when a 26 110group of concerned African-American men began to meet 1to explore ways of improving conditions of their 2 community.

3The group eventually adopted the name One 4Hundred Black Men as a sign of solidarity. These men 5envisioned an organization that would implement 6programs designed to improve the quality of life for 7African-Americans and other minorities. Our founders 8were successful black men from various walks of life.

9In 1963, the first meeting of the One 10Hundred Black Men, Incorporated, was held in New York 11City. A group of successful businessmen from a 12variety of social, educational, and economic sectors 13came together for a common purpose of making a 14difference in African-American communities, by making 15 a difference in the lives of African-American youth.

16The idea quickly caught on, and soon 17independent chapters began forming across the nation, 18until 1986 when nine individual chapters joined 19together to create the alliance known today as the One 20Hundred Black Men of America, Incorporated. Now some 2173 chapters and 10,000 members strong and still 22growing, One Hundred Black Men remains committed to 23its founding mission to improve the quality of life in 24African-American communities by improving the 25educational, economic, and social status of African-26 111 Americans across the entire nation.

1The One Hundred Black Men of New York's 2 commitment to improving the lives of African-Americans 3has been demonstrated with the creation of Eagle 4Academy for Young Men. The school is based upon a 5strong academic foundation with a focus on pillars of 6character that we believe will provide the backdrop 7 for the success of these young men.

8Each of the students at the Eagle Academy 9is provided with an adult male mentor for their four-10year stint in high school. Founded in 2004, the 11school consistently demonstrates a high level of 12achievement that is a reflection of the high 13educational standards encouraged by One Hundred Black 14 Men of America.

15Beginning in the fall of 2007, the Eagle 16Academy will permanently expand its scope to operate 17as a full four-year public high school, graduating its 18first class in the spring of 2008. As we move 19forward, we are expanding this model with plans to 20replicate the school throughout New York City. In 21keeping with our mission of improving the quality of 22 life for African-Americans, we often partner with 23 corporate entities that are supportive of our goals.

24Entergy Nuclear Northeast has been an 25 ardent supporter of our initiatives. Entergy has 26 112provided us with support that will enable us to 1provide opportunities for educating -- for education 2mentoring, and small business expansion, and 3development throughout the New York metropolitan area.

4We understand that Entergy is committed to 5improving the health, social, and economic conditions 6of communities of color by providing safe, affordable, 7reliable, and clean energy. Rising energy costs 8affect all communities across the U.S. and especially 9New York, which has some of the nation's highest 10energy bills. The cost of residential and 11transportation energy represent even larger shares of 12 household expenditures for minority citizens.

13The poorest and most vulnerable families 14are being hit the hardest by energy cost increases.

15The high energy costs also impact small and minority 16businesses and provide barriers for those who want to 17go into business. A recent August 12th New York Times 18article highlight a recent Census report indicates a 19disturbing trend of African-Americans moving out of 20the New York area. This great exodus of working and 21middle class African-Americans is due in part to the 22growing housing costs -- costs coupled with increased 23 energy costs, making home ownership unattainable.

24 These factors negatively contribute to the 25 quality of life for many African-Americans in New 26 113York. The One Hundred Black Men supports the creation 1and distribution of safe, affordable, reliable, and 2clean energy for not only our communities but the 3greater community that is New York. We believe that 4Entergy is a good corporate citizen, and we support 5any efforts to balance the delivery of safe energy 6with initiatives that will soften the burden of these 7 costs on our communities and the environment.

8 Thank you.

9 (Applause.)

10 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. The final two 11speakers we have signed up are -- this is difficult to 12read, Amanda Sistein, I believe it is, with NYPIRG, 13and Noiva Butler with Entergy. Amanda? Sorry I 14 butchered that name.

15MS. SISENSTEIN: Hi. My name is Amanda 16Sisenstein with NYPIRG, the New York Public Interest 17Research Group. I'm a Project Coordinator at the SUNY 18 New Palz campus.

19NYPIRG is calling for an extension of the 20public comment period by at least 60 days due to the 21numerous safety issues surrounding Indian Point, 22including unplanned shutdowns due to emergencies, 23spent fuel rod pool leaks, a complete lack of a 24functional evacuation plan, and, you know, system 25failures, and, you know, all of the other things that 26 114we've been talking about and hearing about all night 1 long.2These are really, really, very, very 3significant concerns for not just people in the 4immediate areas but people as far away as New Palz who 5are still in the peak injury zone. So they really, 6really need time to express these concerns and provide 7meaningful comments. So again, please, you know, to 8extend the public comment period by at least 60 days.

9The NRC should also expand its scope of 10issues beyond, you know, non-moving parts, and the 11review should also reflect what is happening now, the 12realities that we're facing now and not those of some 13time ago. The plant, if it is to be relicensed, we 14really need to see a fair and accurate review, 15including, you know, all of the problems that are 16dealing with right now, and the potential of the 17 problems in the future.

18So, you know, thank you very much for 19having this and allowing people to speak, but, you 20know, please do extend that public comment period.

21This is a very serious issue for people from many 22surrounding counties, and some who maybe couldn't make 23it. I mean, we came from about an hour and a half 24away, and, well, we got a little bit lost on the way.

25So there's -- you know, for everybody who 26 115is here, there is hundreds of people who couldn't be 1but would have liked to be. So please keep that in 2 mind.3 Thank you.

4 (Applause.)

5 MR. BARKLEY: Noiva?

6 MS. BUTLER: Yes.

7 MR. BARKLEY: There you go.

8MS. BUTLER: Good evening. My name is 9 Noiva Butler, and I'm a proud employee of Entergy.

10I'd like to read a statement to keep 11Indian Point operating. We, the undersigned, 12respectfully request that you renew the license for 13Indian Point for another 20 years of safe, reliable, 14and environmentally clean operation. As employees and 15supporters of Indian Point, we know that nuclear power 16remains one of the most affordable and predictable 17 sources of energy for our region and our country.

18There are no viable alternatives to the 192,000 megawatts of power generated by Indian Point 20that provides electricity to power our homes, our 21railroads, our airport, and our business. Entergy has 22invested hundreds of millions of dollars in equipment 23upgrades and security enhancement and training to 24ensure that the plant can operate safely for many 25 years.26 116Thank you. And I encourage you to sign 1 our petition. Thank you.

2 (Applause.)

3MR. BARKLEY: All right. Due to an error 4on my part, I had missed Judy Allen of IPSEC to speak.

5 Please come up, Judy.

6MS. ALLEN: My name is Judy Allen from 7Putnam Valley, member at large of IPSEC and a mother, 8and thank you very much to the NRC for providing this 9opportunity to bring to your attention the 10 environmental impacts of continued plant operation.

11The purpose of this hearing is to make the 12public aware of what the NRC includes in your 13environmental considerations for relicensing Indian 14 Point for another 20 years, and what the public 15stakeholders think about these standards. In a few 16 words, your standards are inadequate.

17The first big question is: what on earth 18that happens at Indian Point would be beyond the scope 19of having potential impact on the environment? Are 20the ongoing leaks that migrate to the Hudson not an 21environmental issue? Would a terrorist attack not be 22 a potential environmental issue?

23Are overfilled spent fuel pools that were 24never intended for long-term storage not a potential 25environmental issue? Is the corrosion of underground 26 117piping that transports radioactive steam, which was 1not supposed to be radioactive, not an environmental 2issue? Is the vast amount of inaccessible underground 3piping that carries saltwater and irradiated water not 4 a potential environmental issue?

5Please, tell us what issues that involve 6Indian Point and the potential release of any 7 radioactivity are not environmental issues.

8You see to approach nuclear issues from 9the perspective of the low probabilities of release, 10but the probability is not zero. When you think of 11low probability, please, see the image of former 12Governor Pataki standing at a podium in August 2003 13with a huge regional blackout on his hands. He said, 14"The experts told me this couldn't happen again." 15Any business that includes humans and 16machinery can have human error and mechanical 17malfunctions. And when radioactivity is involved, all 18 elements are an environmental issue.

19 Thank you very much.

20 (Applause.)

21FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Rich, is that the 22 last card that we have from --

23 MR. BARKLEY: That is the last one that 24officially signed up for this evening? Is there 25 anybody else --

26 118 FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Okay.

1MR. BARKLEY: -- who wanted to speak this 2 evening that had not signed on a card?

3FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: I think we wanted to 4open the floor up, if you haven't had a chance to 5 speak at the afternoon or the evening.

6MR. RICHARDS: Thank you. I got here a 7little late. I wasn't quite sure the protocol of how 8 to speak.9FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: That's okay. If you 10could give us your name and any affiliation if you 11 have --12MR. RICHARDS: My name is Paul Richards.

13I've been a resident of Rockland County for 36 years, 14and I wish to speak specifically to the second item on 15the screen. What local environmental aspects should 16 the NRC examine?

17More than 25 years ago, I participated in 18the hearings in Bethesda on the first round when it 19was -- Conn Ed and New York State Power Agency were 20the operators. And at that time, a major issue was 21the seismic hazard, and that's what I wish to comment 22 on.23I have been a president of the main 24Professional Society of Earthquake Seismologists in 25the United States, and I am currently on the Board of 26 119Directors of the Seismological Society of America.

1And in the first round, with Conn Ed and New York 2State Power Authority, three Commissioners 3participated in those hearings, and they actually 4voted two to one. They split on the seismic issues.

5One Commissioner, the one of the three who -- who 6voted as he did, considered the capability of the 7Ramapo Fault sufficiently serious to give him that 8 vote.9So the issue for us today is: what have 10we learned in the 25 more or so years since those 11hearings? And there's a huge amount that has been 12learned, and the specific issue to focus on is: what 13is the likelihood of Indian Point 2 and 3 being 14exposed to ground shaking in their extended lifetime, 15if that's what is to be decided, greater than they 16 have been designed to withstand?

17Get that wrong, and, of course, the issue 18is not how to -- does a nuclear powerplant function in 19comparison with the fossil fuel plant when they're 20both operating fairly well. We have heard quite a lot 21of speakers address that issue, but the issue is what 22potentially can happen if something goes seriously 23 wrong.24 Thank you.

25 (Applause.)

26 120FACILITATOR RAKOVAN: Is there anyone else 1who didn't get a chance to speak at either of the 2meetings that would like to have the floor? One last 3 chance.4 (No response.)

5Okay. Given that we only have a short 6amount of time, and no other speakers that haven't had 7a chance to speak, I'm going to go ahead and turn the 8meeting over to Rani Franovich, so she can close the 9 meeting.10 Rani?11MS. FRANOVICH: Thank you, Lance. I'm 12Rani Franovich. I am the Branch Chief of the 13Headquarters Office in Rockville, Maryland, that is 14doing the review for the license renewal application 15 for Indian Point Units 2 and 3.

16And I just want to thank you all for 17coming to this meeting this evening. This opportunity 18that we have to engage with the public and hear 19directly from members of the public those issues that 20they think need to be considered by the NRC during our 21environmental review are a really good time for us to 22get some good input. We've gotten quite a bit of that 23today. So I appreciate your willingness to be at the 24 meetings today.

25I wanted to remind everybody that we will 26 121be receiving comments on the scope of the 1environmental review until October 12th, and also the 2opportunity to request a hearing has been extended to 3 November 30th.

4I also wanted to reiterate a point that 5Lance made when we opened up the meeting, that there 6are public feedback -- public meeting feedback forms 7that are located out in the lobby at the registration 8desk. If you can think of any way we can improve our 9 public meetings, anything we could do differently, 10anything that we're doing that works well, that you 11want to let us know about, we'd appreciate that 12 feedback.

13Feel free to fill out a form, leave it 14with a member of the NRC staff, or, if you prefer, 15take it home, think about it, and fill it out, fold it 16 up, and put in the mail. The postage is prepaid.

17And with that, thank you very much for 18 coming to our meeting tonight.

19 (Applause.)

20(Whereupon, at 9:46 p.m., the proceedings 21 in the foregoing matter were concluded.)

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