ML12320A416

Exhibit 13 to ROI, Case No. 4-2011-059-Transcript of Interview

ML12320A416
Person / Time
Site:	San Onofre
Issue date:	11/02/2011
From:	NRC/OI/RGN-III/FO
To:
References
4-2011-059, FOIA/PA-2012-0238
Download: ML12320A416 (43)

Text

EXHIBIT 13 Case No. 4-2011-059 EXHIBIT 13

1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3

4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW 6 ------------------------------ X 7 IN THE MATTER OF:

8 INTERVIEW OF 01 Case No.

9 (b)(7)(C)

It 4-2011-059 10 (CLOSED) 11 ----------------------------- X 12 Wednesday, November 2, 2011 13 14 Meeting Room 15 NRC Resident Inspector's office 16 San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station 17 5000 Pacific Coast Highway 18 near San Clemente, California 19 20 The above-entitled interview was conducted 21 at 12:56 p.m. Founrmatlon in this record was deftted id,accordance with th . reedom of i ,formation 22 Act, exemptions 7@2,I 23 BEFORE:

24 IZ (b)(7)(C) 25 EXHIB'r {3 .

NEAL R.GROSS PAGE ./JoFl' _e PAG'

`4 .20 11 -0591 COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS (202) 234-4433 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com A IV,

2 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 12:56 p.m.

3 I (b)(7)(C) J We are on the 4 record. This is an interview of I (b)()(C)1 5 Today's date is November 2nd, 2011. It is 6 approximately 12:56 p.m. The location of this 7 interview is in the meeting room at the NRC Resident 8 Inspector's Office at the San Onofre Nuclear 9 Generating Station in San Clemente, California.

10 Present at this interview are (b)(7)(C)[

11 (b)(7)(C) This 12 investigation involves an allegation of discrimination 13 against aI (b)(7)(C) I for reporting 14 nuclear safety concerns to the NRC. And it's reported 15 under 0I Case Number 4-2011-059.

16 r(b)(7)(c) the NRC 01 protocol includes 17 the swearing in of witnesses. Do you have any 18 objection to being sworn in this afternoon?

L (b)(7E( ]No I don't.

19 20 I (b)(7)(C) Can you raise 21 your right hand, please? Do you swear that the 22 information that you're about to give is the truth, 23 the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help 24 you God?

S(b)(7)(C) I do.

25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

3 1

(b)(7)(C) Thank you. Sir, 2 can you give for the record your full name, please?

(b)(7)(C) 3 4 (b)(7)(C) What's your 5 current position, sir?

(b)(7)(C) I a am (b)(7)(C) 6 7

(b)(7)(C) 8 9

10 (b)(7)(C)

And who are you 11 employed by?

12 (b)(7)(C) Southern California Edison.

13 (b)(7)(C) And how long have 14 you been working here at SONGS?

(b)(7)(C) 15 16 I (b)(7)(C) Any other 17 experience in the nuclear industry?

18 (b)()(:C) I Prior to this I worked 19 approximatelyI (b)(7)(C) I at the (b)(7)(C) 20 And prior to that, (b)(7)C, in thel (b)(7)(C)

S(b)(7)(C) I 21 22 I (b)(7)(C)

] Okay. Thank you 23 for your service, by the way.

24 (b)(7)(C) You' re welcome.

25 (b)(7)(C) Yes, before we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross~com

4 1 went on the record I was explaining the focus of my 2 investigation and how it involves allegations made by 3 (b)(7)(C) First of all, whenI (b)(7(c) 1as employed 4 here, how much interaction, if any, did you have with 5 him?

6 (b)(7)(C) Quite a bit. We were 7 peers. Within the organization structure,i 8 was th (b)(7)(C) And then it was her direct 9 reports , were myself, (b)(7)(C) ani (b)(7)(C) 10 11 (b)()(C)Okay. All right.

12 So you interacted him with, on a daily basis?

13 (b)(7)(C) iYes" 14 (b)(7)(C) Did you interact 15 with him during hisl (b)(7)(C) at SONGS?

(b)(7)(C) Yes I did.

16 17 (b)(7)(C) Okay. Was there 18 a difference in the way he interacted with people from 19 his I (b)(7)(C) 20 (b)(7)(C) I as an employee?

21 (b)(7)(C) i would say not, in fact, 22 absolutely not. I worked closely with JIIcin 23 (b)(7)(C) After the 9/11 attacks I was brought over 24 to (b)(7)(C) division to become the 25 E(b)(7)(C) to get the LI)7)C)

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

5 1 program more inline with the systematic 2 approach training process.

3 (b)(7)(C) w as the (b)(7)(C) he was a 4 over there. And then he became th j (b)(7)(C)J 5 (b)(7)(C) 1when the manager retired. And 6 throughout that whole time I think (c) was very 7 consistent in his approach to handling people, 8 handling work. And, in fact, I saw that same work 9 ethic here. I didn't see any change.

(b)(7)(C) id you ever hear 10 11 any complaints about him?

(b)(7)(C) 0No.

12 (b)(7)(C) Did you learn of 13 14 any issues about him from any other managers?

15 (b)(7)(C) No, nothing that sticks 16 out.

(b)(7)(C) Okay.

17 18 (b)(7)(C) Yes.

19 1(b)(7)(C) Did you know him 20 personally? Did you know about his personal life or 21 anything like that?

22 (b)(7)Z(C) I mean, a little bit. We 23 did not socialize together. So I knew a little bit, 24 just kind of the incidental things that you find out 25 at work, I guess. But I didn't socialize with him.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

6 (b)(7)(C) Did you ever 1

2 become aware of him being distracted by events and 3 circumstances in his personal life?

4 (b)(7)(C) I know that he was 5 concerned. He did have a issuei (b)(7)(C) but 6 as far as it distracting him significantly, it didn't 7 distract him any more than, I think anything else.

8 It's kind of like that's your personal 9 life. You may talk about it. And he did talk to me 10 about it. But as far as it impacting his work or 11 anything, I didn't see that.

12 L (b)(7)(C) Did you ever 13 refer him to the EAP here onsite?

14 (b)(7)(C) I did tell him that if he 15 was concerned, that he had that as an option.

(b)(7)(C) Okay. Among the 16 17 concerns and complaints that (b)(7)(C) ad here at the 18 plant when he was employed here was his perception 19 that he was treated differently b c(b)(Z)(C) 20 And he gave me an example or circumsances 21 where he believed he was treated differently than his 22 peers. And one of those examples involved you in the 23 rating of another employee.

(b)(7)(C) Yes 24 25 (b)(7)(C) II'm not sure if NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

7 1 you're familiar with this or not. But when I 2 interviewed him he told me about attending a meeting, 3 I'm not sure what you guys call them here at the 4 plant.

5 But it's a meeting which is attended by 6 managers. And they're expected to give input as to 7 other employees who are not their direct reports.

8 (b)(7)(C) Yes, the calibration 9 meeting is what it's called.

10 (b)(7)(C) That's what it's 11 called.

(b)(7)(C) tYes.

12 13 (b)(7)(C) He told me that 14 during one of those meetings he suggested that another 15 employee, an employee by the name of (b)(7)(C) 16 (phonetic), if I'm pronouncing it correctly?

17 , ()(7)(C) I Yes.

18 (b)(7)(C) I Should receive an 19 for some type of action that she did while on the 20 job, and that she should be acknowledged or she should 21 be given an (C) on her appraisal, or I'm not exactly 22 sure how the ratings go onsite here.

23 (b)(7)(C)

S Yes.

24 (b)(7)(C) He's contending 25 that subsequent to that he was, well, let me back up.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

8 1 During that meeting, (b)(7)(C) ave some indication 2 that this individual did not warrant an F(7i) for her 3 efforts.

4 Later on down the road this was used 5 against him in his formal evaluation. I think you 6 guys call them (b)(7)(C) 7 1(b)(7)(C) (b)(7)(C) 8 (b)(7)(C) yes.

9 (b)(7)(C) Did you ever 10 learn of that? Were you at the meeting first of all?

11 (b,(7)(c) rYes I was at the meeting.

12 (b)(7)(C) What do you 13 recall from that meeting?

14 1 (b)(7)(C) I Well, first off, let me 15 tell you th (b)(7)(C) eported to me and I had 16 initially, on her performance plan, provided her, this 17 was a mid-year evaluation, we have two phases.

18 Mid-year, which really is an adjustment 19 point possibly. It can have bearing later on on the 20 final score. But it has no impact. The final score 21 is the one that determines things like pay increase, 22 any potential action, so to say.

23 And I had given (C) ani(7b) for an[ (b)(7)(C) 24 rating in both areas. She was new to the position but 25 had taken on a lot of challenges. Kept us, as a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

9 1 division, out of trouble with regards to our 2 corrective action backlog, had worked down, been very, 3 very effective.

4 And my initial proposal to had put 5 down (7)() warrants an I I've done this for many 6 years and it was inline with what I've done in the 7 past. There were no issues.

8 E old m (b)(7)(C) ban not get an(7) And 9 I said well, why not? And then she said well, because 10 she hasn't been in the job long enough. And I said 11 well, 7CI that really isn't, you know, from my 12 experience.

13 Fine, you've got experience doing this, 14 you're my boss. But my experience is that you want to 15 motivate people. You want to accurately assess them.

16 And the other part is, it's a mid-year. If she 17 continues to well, then great.

18 And if we achieve that through motivation, 19 great. If she doesn't do well then she can drop down 20 to an(J which is a)Cl which is not a bad score 21 also.

22 So I had put that down as an brought it mC 23 in as an I71 to that particular calibration meeting, 24 because (b)(7)(C) irected me to reduce it. I hadn't had 25 any talks with C)eforehand about this.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgrss.com v

10 1 bade a, this whole conversation at 2 the calibration meeting took about 30 seconds or a 3 minute, because we're going through a lot of 4 personnel. And so we had a chart of everybody's 5 ratings.

6 And we got to that. And it was okay, 7 (C)has abCl and a I said well, 8(b)(7)(C) Idone this, this, and this, and ran through 9 several items, essentially what he knew about that she 10 had done.

11 Which was pretty obvious, she was our 12 (b)(7)(C) I" So he 13 opined that I think that she should get anIC) 14 An (b)(7)(C) said well, no I don't think so, 15 should justb And that was about the extent 16 of it. SoO (b)(7)(C)has related to me that this then 17 showed up on his . That makes absolutely no sense 18 to me.

19 I had nothing on my and I had a much 20 lengthier discussion to attempt to persuade [c) that 21 the correct thing was to do this. And I have nothing 22 on my (b)(7) that talks about either I was 23 inappropriately trying to persuade, I mean nothing.

24 So that really surprised me when he told 25 me that that was on his (b(7 That's the purpose of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

11 1 those meetings, in fact, is to provide either a 2 challenge up or down, or to affirm at least where 3 you're at.

4 (b)(Z)() Did you ever 5 discuss this with (b)(7)(C) 6 (b)(7)(C) NoI didn' t.

7 (b)(7)(C) I know it's, you 8 could argue that it's none of your business what 9 happens on his (C) .

[(7b)(7) And so I was just curious --

10 (b)(7)(C) Yes, I didn't find out 12 about that until after he was terminated. Then he 12 told me, he says yes, that was on m fi. And I was, 13 you know, really that just seems, I've never heard of 14 that before.

15 And plus, that's the purpose of that 16 meeting. And it's not like there was some heated 17 argument or anything, or it was inappropriate, it was 18 similar to many of the other comments we had with 19 other people about going through this and saying so 20 and so did a good job, that's why I justify it.

21 So and so has the following issues.

22 That's why we're justifying that. There was nothing 23 extraordinary about the interchange, so it shocked me 24 to find out that was on there.

25 L (b)(7)(C) On the day that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

12 1 you were discussing (b)(7)(C) rating withbYl 2 bCJdi (b)(7)(C) say anything about this being a 3 bad judgment on your part?

4 (b)(7)(C) JNo" 5 (b)(7)(C) Or anything of 6 that nature?

7 (b)(7)(C) No. She just disagreed 8 with the, primarily that it was she had only been in 9 the position a short period of time.

10 (b)(7)(C) 11 (b)(7)(C) Yes, (b)(7)(C) And I 12 said, I understand that. I understand also that she's 13 done a great job for us. In fact,1 (b)(7)(C) as recently 14 received, she was one of the (b)(7)(C) 15 (b)(7)(C) (inaudible).

16 I mean, her performance is there. She's 17 recognized across the division as being a very, very 18 good performer. She's got it documented in many ways.

19 So she's one of the people we can give something to 20 and we know that it's going to get done.

21 And that's what, and I recognized that 22 right off the start. In fact, that's why we hired 23 her. She was already a (b)(7)(C) within our 24 division, al (b)(7)(C) employee. And we hired her 25 into a position, a I (b)(7)(C) position NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

13 1 and she's done great.

2 I knew that it was going to go that 3 direction, so I would say that everything right now 4 that she has backs up the fact that she was a stellar 5 performer then.

6 (b)(7)(C) Do you recall the 7 meeting that you had, this calibration meeting, do you 8 recall that meeting specifically? Where (b)(7)(C) 9 suggested that (b)(7)(c) receive an (7) on her CL 10 appraisal?

(b)(7)(C) [Yes.

12.

12 (b)(7)(C)

Of course, [l

[

13 14

Ea id )rrect.

15 I What was her 16 general attitude in dealing with (b)(7)(C) jon that 17 occasion?

(b))(C) ~ At the time it was really 18 19 a non-event. It was more of okay, well, I don't 20 really agree. Thanks for the input. Like I said, we 21 only spent 30 seconds to a minute on that whole 22 discussion and then it was okay, on to the next 23 person.

24 So that's why I'm confused about the 25 aftermath essentially, it doesn't line up with what I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

14 1 saw. And it doesn't line up with what I've 2 experienced in the past on those meetings.

3 (b)(7)(C) Okay. So at the 4 time (b)(7)(C) .idn't give a reason whyI (b)(7)(C) 5 shouldn't have ani (b)(7)(C for her evaluation?

6 (b)(7)(C) i I think the reason that she 7 gave was that she hasn't been in the position long 8 enough.

9 (b)(7)(C) = But did she state 10 that specifically during the meeting?

11(b)(7)(C) I really can't recall but 12 I would, I can't recall on that one. But I don't 13 remember anything, you know, any remarkable 14 discussions about it. So since that's what she had 15 given me, I would've expected her to repeat that same 16 thing.

17 I (b)C7)(C) [ Do you have any 18 problems with (b)(7)(C) as far as her managing 19 ability?

20IYes (b)(7)(C) Yes.

21 (b)(7)(C) And what would be 22 your chief complaint?

23(b)(7)(C) II think she's just in over 24 her head and does not, she' s a very good 25 (b)(7)(C) She's done that for years. Some of these NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

15 1 items that she's doing now, and I've had this 2 discussion with her.

3 I've had frank discussions with her about 4 what I think the division needs based on my experience 5 and my background. We had a lot of compliance issues.

6 We still do. And she's not present a lot.

7 Now I've been out of the I (b)(7(E] since 8 when I was (b)(7)(C) 9 (b)(7)(C) And that was a shock to me, but I was 10 justw 11 And I can think that some of those reasons 12 were, the reason that I was told was thatd (b)(7)(C)  :

13 needed my skills because they had a backlog in 14 (b)(7)(C) 15 My background is pretty extensive and wide 16 across the site. I've been in,. (b)(7)(C) 17 (b)(7)(C) 18 19 Spent six years in (b)(7)(C) 20 (b)(7)(C) Came over to (C) 21 (b)(7)(C) 22 (b)(7)(C) lbecause we were out of compliance 23 with the implementation of SAP.

24 (b)(7)(C) Yes 25 (b)()C)I n did a really good job NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

%wvFI 234-4433

. vw

16 1 on all those special projects that I've been assigned 2 to. But we have a kind of a fundamental disagreement, 3 at least over how she's managing some of the groups.

4 I've seen, at least, that she's hired what 5 I would consider to be friends and people that just 6 plain weren't qualified. They've subsequently, some 7 of them have been demoted since then.

8 And, you know, she would ask me, what do 9 I need to do? I would tell her, you need to take 10 (b)(7)(C) he needs to move from ()7 11 You need to take (b)(7)(C) honetic) 12 from the group that she's in charge of, because she's 13 completely destroying the people, the personnel in 14 there.

15 (b)(7)(C) (phonetic), not very 16 competent in (b)(7)(C) being able to handle things.

17 Cost us millions of dollars.

18 And I kind of just, now subsequently all 19 of those things have actually happened. Those people 20 moved. Sol (b)(7)(C) I. She 21 doesn't like to deal with issues is the way that I can 22 see it.

23 Whe (I(7(Cwas terminated, ( personnel 24 that had actually turned to him for some assistance, 25 turned to me. And I had people come to me last NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

17 1 December that said I've got an issue here and I don't 2 know what to do.

3 I'm being asked to sign something that's 4 not my work. And I said well, you don't have to do 5 that. Well, I don't feel good about not doing it, or 6 I don't feel like I can not sign it.

7 And I can't got to Nuclear Safety Concerns 8 because they felt there was a direct line from Nuclear 9 Safety Concerns, from a personal nature, one of the 10 people over there wit (b)(7)(C) who was up inI(b(7 L-..

11 So they told me. And I says okay, at this 12 point I have to go file a Nuclear Safety Concern. And 13 I wrote that up, gave that tc (b)(7)(C) or made 14 sure he got it.

15 He wasn't there, but made sure he got it 16 because I thought, I said, your organization may be 17 compromised. That's something you need to look at.

18 In addition, you need to look at why these people up 19 here are not comfortable with coming to you. And you 20 need to look at the whole events.

21 I also gave a copy of that to( nd told 22 her. I said, this is something that you need to be

.23 aware of but it's not something we can handle 24 internally. And so she had a copy of that the same 25 day that I gave it tol7)(C)

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 wwwnealrgross.com

18 1 Her response was, she looked at it, said 2 okay, thanks. A few months after that, you know, they 3 finally, the corporate, and I may not have the terms 4 right. But (b)(7)(C) the Employee Concerns Program 5 can't investigate itself. That wouldn't make much 6 sense.

7 He turned it over to a corporate 8 investigator, possibly from the Ethics Department.

9 I'm not really sure. But they were then looking to 10 see if they had a internal compromise, you know, the 11 Employee Concerns Program.

12 I (b)(7)(C) Who is this 13 individual on NSC that supposedly had a direct line to 14 S(b)(7)(C) : as it?

15 F(b)(7)(C) Yes. L b()C I

16 (phonetic). And the only thing that they had to base 17 that on was they would see them in conversation a lot.

18 And there were some things that the people up in (C) 19 said -c) houldn' t know.

20 Because they had gone to Employee 21 Concerns. And they said she knows things that we're 22 telling them. So they said, we're not going to tell 23 anything anymore because it's coming back to us.

24 And I don't have the specifics on that.

25 I don't think that it was entirely the supervisors or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.na~rross.oom v

19 1 the analysts. I think that it was the employees, the 2 represented employees that we have up there.

3 Like I said, I put all that together. I 4 ran it past the two people from (b)(7)(C) 5 andI (b)(7)(C) II said, now, this is what I heard you 6 say. I mean, I've kind of validated that.

7 And, in fact, Ij(b)(7)(C) as there because 8 they came down to my cube to talk to me about this.

9 It had to do with closing a cause evaluation, which 10 was how (b)(7)(C) qas involved.

11 And so they were kind of commiserating to 12 me about what do we do. I don't, you know, I've got 13 this report but it's been changed, I(b(7) changed it 14 quite a bit and it's really not my work anymore. I 15 don't agree with it. But she said that I should sign 16 it.

17 And I said well, you shouldn't have to do 18 that. But what can I do to help you? And like I 19 said, I did what I could. AncJcas aware of that.

20 An7e colds grudges.

21 I have been instructed to change PDP 22 scores on people that she doesn't like, and argued 23 against that. Had an employee then file a focus on 24 resolution on me. That was all investigated.

25 And went there witi (b)(7)(C) who's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

20 1 one of the I (b)(7)(C) 2 may not be the right word. I'm not too sure what her 3 position is, but it's a --

4 I (b)(7)(C) Is she an 6 (b)(7)(C) Well, it's like an HR.

7 She s not ae (b)(7)(C) She does the 8 (b)(7)(C) She kind of 9 mediates the focus on resolution process that we have 10 here. But I told her right up front, I said I don't 11 agree with these scores. I was instructed to change 12 these scores to a[ (b)(7)(C) 13 I said, ()7C) oes noti (b)(7)(C) in 14 my opinion. I didn't put it initially. I)( old me 15 I had to change these scores. I told her that I 16 didn't think it was warranted. (c) aid no, you have 17 to change those scores.

18 (b)(7)(C) Did you ever hear 19 any complaints from your peers about too many rank and 20 file employees going to (b)(7)(C) with their issues?

21 (b)(7)(C) I didn't hear that from my 22 peers. I know that people did not want to go tc()7)C 23 L(b)(7)(c)ecause first, there were never any results.

24 I7 imply was not suited to that position.

25 And that was one of my prime complaints NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, DC. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

21 I that I had to _ was we have projects to get the 2 (b)(7)(C) thing back on 3 track and in compliance. That was EbI7)(Cl rea to 4 manage.

5 My background in the (b)(7)(C) 6 (b)(7)(C) and other things like that 7 allowed me to be thel (b)(7)( and say here's 8 what we need to do.

9 The (b)(7)(C) of those items, that 10 wasJ (b)(7)(C)Iarea. In these meetingsJb7)c ould fail 11 on commitments repeatedly. And I would go back to 12 and tell her. At first I'd try to get~c o do it.

13 And it was oh, yes, yes I'll get that. Oh yes, yes 14 I'll get that.

15 And when that didn't happen then I would 16 go t cf *nd tell her. And ever did anything 17 because b7)C) as, as far as I know, an acquaintance 18 of hers, at least.

19 And she had personally hired 20 Which, if you well, I'll say ask around, I mean people 21 that know what that job entailed and knew (b)(7)(C) 22 skill set, when they heard that she was going to be 23 the manager of that were kind of like, really? How 24 so? She has no background in that and it made no 25 sense.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealygross.com

22 1 So as far as people didn't want to go to 2 her because she never got results as far as I could 3 tell, which is why they went to 7C) Because he 4 happened to attend a meeting up there and he said, 5 like I've attended some meetings.

6 In fact, I was attending meetings up 7 there. And7)(C) said, is there anything that I can 8 do? You know, is there anything that you guys need 9 any assistance on?

10 And sob ays yes, I do. Which is what 11 we've been requesting people, ask. You don't have to 12 follow your chain of command. It would be nice for 13 you to follow your chain of command, but you don't 14 have to.

15 And so that's how he was in the line, was 16 by going up there and attending some of the stand-up 17 meetings that they have. Which is we encourage that 18 because we don't want silence. We're trying to, 19 running sure that there's open communication around.

20 (b)(7)(C) Did you attend 21 that one meeting where it was said, we prefer that you 22 go through the chain of command with your concerns?

23 That you don't have to, but we prefer that you do it.

24 Were you actually there?

25 (b)(7)( Yes, we've said that at so NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

23 1 many meet :ings. So if you're referring to one that 2 (b)(7)(C) 4as at or, I'm not sure because we've brought 3 -that -up s everal times.

4 (b)(7)(C) Oh, okay. The 5 meeting I 'm referring to and again, they have a term 6 for it, n ot a calibration meeting. It's for the lined 7 employees to meet with the supervisor other than their 8 own and t hey might raise issues. So I'm not sure --

9 (b)(7)(C) Skip level meetings.

10 (b)(7)(C) Skip level Ii meetings.

12 13 I (b)(7)(C) lAnd during one of 14 these meetings (b)(7)(C) supposedly said, we don't want 15 yougoing to ()7)(C ith your issues anymore 1ZC) 16 C)an't help you. And what we want you to do, if 17 you ever have an issue, is go use the chain of 18 command.

19 (b)(7)(C) I was not at that meeting -

20 21 (b)(7)(C) Okay.

22 (b)()(C) -- whereI(b) aid that.

23 I did hear however, that that word was passed to the 24 people inF Or at least the message that some of 25 the people that came to me that they got was, they NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.com

24 1 were told they couldn't go to !I 7J 2 That they had to go to (7( And I told 3 them, you don't have to do that. I said, that's what 4 we encourage, but if your impression is that you have 5 to do that, that's not true. You're not restricted.

6 Now again, that's the message that they 7 heard, that some people brought to me. But I wasn't 8 at the meeting, so I don't know how it was said or 9 anything like that.

L (b)(7)(C) okay. Do you 10 11 remember any conversations witht (b)(7)(C) r any of 12 the other employees who were there, about the exact 13 words that were used?

14 ,(b)(7)(C) 1 do not.

15 (b)(7)(C) Okay. But the 16 perception, at least, the takeaway that some of these 17 employees that approach you later on and it was, don't 18 go to (b)(7)(C)c nd use the chain of command if you 19 have a concern?

20 (b)(7)(C) That's the impression that 21 I got as far as what they received.

(b)(7)(C) Okay.

22 23 (b)(7)(C) Or what they walked away 24 with. What was said, I can't tell you because I 25 wasn't there.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

25 1 (b)(7IC) Okay. But you 2 told me that the common theme that's usually brought 3 out in these meetings is somewhat typical. And the 4 line is we prefer that you use the chain of command if 5 you have a concern.

6 Not that you necessarily can't go to 7 anyone else, but we prefer that you use the chain of 8 command?

S(b)(7)(C) Yes.

9 10 (b)(7)(C) That's what' s 11 communicated usually?

12 (b)(7)(C) .Yes. I want to say there's 13 almost a standard communication that has been put out 14 several times on it. Especially as we battle the SCWE 15 environment, along the lines of you have these 16 following avenues that are open to you.

17 They're all open to you. This would be 18 the preferred approach and we'd like to be able to say 19 that we can count on you understanding that you should 20 be able to go to your supervisor.

21 If for any reason you can't, you can 22 always take one of the alternates. So there's 23 probably some communications we could find on that.

24 But I've just heard that repeatedly and again, I've 25 reinforced it myself repeatedly.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

26 1 I (b)(7)(C) Did you have any 2 subsequent discussions with* (b)(7)(C) lbout what these 3 employees were telling you?

(b)(7)(C) I told her about that. She 4

5 really didn't, she didn't respond. I don't know how 6 else to say it. I just told her, I said this is what 7 I've heard. You know, it was kind of surprising that 8 she didn't want or maybe didn't take it seriously, I'm 9 not sure.

10 I just would've expected either, you know 11 what, we need to have a meeting on this. Let's get 12 together. Let's get. (b)(7)(c) Let's ge3 )c) Let's 13 figure this out.

14 She tended to compartmentalize things and 15 treat, if I brought her something that would, let's 16 say aboutL (7C)she might talk t b-IIC bout it and 17 then tell me, I'm going to talk tcjH()C) I have 18 talked tobIc) But I wouldn't be involved in that.

19 It was just separate.

20 (b)(7)(C) After you talked 21 to (b)(7)(C) about this, were you treated any 22 differently?

23 (b)(7)(C) IMy role significantly 24 diminished within the division. I was excluded from 25 the next calibration meeting. And that was under)7)Cif NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

27 1 told me initially, well, you don't have any direct 2 reports.

3 Because I had taken on some of the 4 analysts as, let's see if I can remember the sequence 5 here. (b)(7)(C) qas hired, had no supervisory 6 experience, no managerial experience.

7 lc31ired her. She came in. We had gone 8 through a hiring process also of staffing up in 9 analysts. I (b)(7)(C) I(phonetic) who's no 10 longer here, she's retired, and myself essentially 11 (b)(7)(C) the division to break it into some 12 functional areas, decide what level management we 13 needed for each of those functional areas.

14 And then I participated in some of the 15 hiring, and some of the interviews I didn't. We hired 16 all the analysts, brought them in undeJ (b)(7)(C) [

17 Anc (b)(7)(C) there were complaints right 18 from the start. I mean, I'd never seen, even the way 19 she wrote up her evaluations, you have to be a hundred 20 percent accurate on this.

21 And so people were worried because they 22 were fairly new to their jobs. They're going, how do 23 I be a hundred percent accurate on something that 24 we're still trying to figure out, in specific SAP.

25 I said well, that, I said I don't think NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

28 1 she can mean a hundred percent, that's not a 2 realistic, there's no way to exceeds. And we 3 typically in our writing of our performance plans, you 4 have to give somebody the opportunity to exceed.

5 Otherwise it's not a legitimate goal.

6 (b)(7)(C) Sure.

7 i(b)(7):(C:) iThis went on for a little 8 while and she had a lot of turmoil within her 9 organization. Finally, the people, they were ready to 10 just quit.

11 I said, you know, (b)(7)(C)

I 12 (b)(7)(C) 13 that's what my particular position is. I've managed 14 people before in the past. I've been an individual 15 contributor in the past.

16 So I said, I(b)(7)(C)

(b)(7)(C) 17 18 Because it was like a catch-all, was that group. We 19 didl (b)(7)(C)

(b)(7)(C) 20 21 Then the group went to the Employee 22 Concerns Program and they said, you know, they were 23 raising SCWE issues. So then I got called in because 24 they said we have a complaint about, they're 25 complaining about their supervisor.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W, (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

29 1 And I went in and I said wait a minute 2 now. Who are you talking about? And they actually 3 were complaining aboutl (b)(7)(C) Inot me. But 4 the time that it takes to churn through these things, 5 I guess there was a little confusion.

6 I said, you know,' B I (b)C7):(C) i 7 (b)(7)(C) . I said but, at this point, this group, 8 I think is almost broke. And I don't, I know where 9 these things go sometimes, I really don't need to be 10 in the middle of this right now.

11 You know, this is kind of something you 12 created and I can't help you. If you're going to 13 continue to havy4 i)(7)(C) n charge of some of these 14 folks and that, I says, I don't want to be in the 15 middle of this.

16 So we moved people around, explained to 17 them exactly what was happening. They all said it's 18 not about you, c It's not about you, we're happy 19 working for you.

20 And I says yes, but understand the 21 position I'm in. I don't need to be part of this 22 because I could see that it was going bad.

23 So since then, and since other things have 24 come up, or since I didn't have anybody reporting to 25 me, [)) said actually that HR said I shouldn't be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

30 1 there.

2 And I said well, but I know all these 3 people, the input for their end of year. I have some 4 input on this. Well, I guess I should've invited you.

5 I could've made more time. I could've pushed back but 6 I didn't. So she said, that was my fault.

7 And subsequently then I've been cut out 8 more and more. It got to the point where I ould 9 not even talk to me at all, didn't see her for weeks 10 on end.

11 And yet, I'm one of her (b)(,)(C) 12 And I'm kind of having less and less to do and I'm, 13 what's going on here. You still have these compliance 14 issues. You have these other things. I'm being 15 marginalized. And I used those words to her.

16 She said well, we'll have to meet about 17 that, never met. Never anything. So finally on, 18 actually not oni (b)(7)(C) I that was my transfer date.

1 7(j 19 But at 4 o'clock in the afternoon after a meeting,(

20 said I need you to come down and talk with me and 21 M (b)(7)(C) Ihonetic) , theO (b)(7)(C) o.

22 Because the (b)(7)(C) i 23 (b)()(C)ad left. He'd been, call it what you want, 24 he left. So they got somebody new.

25 And they said well, effective Monday or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

31 1 whatever the day it was, you're going to be going over 2 to (o)(7)(C) to support them. And I said well, this 3 is the first I'm hearing about this. How is that 4 going to be?

5 Well, you're just going to go support 6 them, they need help. Okay. I'm more than willing to 7 do that, but is this a temporary work assignment? Is 8 this just a job assignment? Is it a transfer? They 9 had no answers.

10 They said well, we don't know. Well, then 11 what prompted this decision? Well, they need help.

12 We've talked about they need help. You have the skill 13 set to go help them. Okay, I agree I have the skill 14 set to go help them. But how, what policy is this 15 being implemented under?

16 (b)(7)(C) Yes.

17 (b)(7)(C) And it took them a couple 18 weeks and they finally said it's a temporary work 19 assignment. You know, it's one of our employee 20 mobility processes. So they filled that out. And 21 it's still, it's not quite kosher, the method that it 22 was done. So I'm over ini (b)(7)(c)_ now.

23 But in that interim between December and 24 then, my emails that I got fromn ven tapered off.

25 My inclusion in meetings tapered off. It was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.com T

32 1 different.

2 And I told you before, olds a grudge.

3 I've seen it because I've been instructed, like I 4 said, so and so threw me under the bus at a meeting, 5 was one of her words. One of the employees out here 6 that was on a (b)(7)(C) 7 And when I, her performance improved and 8 I gave her a b . said you can't give her a 9 she needs any (b)(7)(C) I'm the one's that 10 monitoring her performance.

11 No she hasn't been doing that much better.

1 you don't know. No, she hasn't been doing that 13 much better, give her an 7. And that was by 14 direction.

15 You know, I don't know what else to tell 16 you but I've just seen it first hand. And it really 17 surprised me. I saw a whole other side of her that I 18 didn't know existed.

19 (b)(7)(C) I Is she still in 20 her position?

21 (b)(7)(C) Yes.

22 (b)(7)(C) Okay.

23 (b)(7)(C) Because she s been, I think 24 that she's been pretty ineffective. I mean, the 25 organizational effectiveness, AFI that we receive from NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

33 1 ENPO (phonetic), I was (b)(7)(C) with that 2 inI (b)(7)(C) you know, (b)(7)(C) 3 That was led byF1 3 Tat as ed y b)(7)(C)Ind (b)(7)(C) 4 (phonetic), who' s the (b)(7)(C) And 5 initially, a contractor consultant that I can't 6 remember her name. But one of the prime, I guess 7 complaint that I had in going in, I said okay, we're 8 having these meetings.

9 We're not making much progress. I said 10 who's in charge of this? Who's leading this? And I 11 would ask that question an[E()C~ esponse was well, 12 we're leading it as a team.

13 1 said )you're not here at these 14 meetings all the time. (b)(7)(c) ot here when you're 15 here. You can't lead a project like this by group.

16 It's not working.

17 And so then I got, in fact, it was in my 18 (that I had criticized the approach that we were 19 taking. Well, now the OR (phonetic) team stumbled 20 along. Progress was insufficient. We've got the 21 internal evaluations that show that.

22 Recently they created a director, I think 23 it's a director position, maybe a (b)(7)(C) 24 (b)(7)(C) and that' s what (b)(7)(C) 25 (b)(7)(C) J(phonetic) is now.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

34 1 Because what I told them all along, you've 2 got to have one person in charge of this so that you 3 can make some decisions and move forward. We can't 4 continue to have the same discussion week after week, 5 after week and never come to a decision. Somebody has 6 to step up and do that.

7 So she's good at collaboration again, at 8 another level. But she wasn't effective there. And 9 I was just up front with her and told her, you know, 10 not even personally, but this is what is happening.

11 Here's the facts. We're not moving forward.

12 To move forward, somebody has to step up.

13 And I ended up bearing the brunt or being called, I 14 don't know, obstinate and difficult.

15 I said ()the stuff just speaks for 16 itself. We're missing due dates. These things just 17 have to be done. So she didn't like to hear that 18 news. And that was also before moving to (b)(7)(C) 19 and duties start to diminish and things.

20 1 (b)(7)(C) Okay. Anything 21 else regardig (b)(7)(C) 22 (b)(7)(C) I mean, yes, not really.

23 She's a good person. Okay, I don't want to, I think 24 she's just in over her head and is a little out of her 25 element. Her background is not technical like the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C, 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

35 1 majority of people.

2 Not that you have to have that, but it 3 certainly helps. She can be really efficient at the 4 (b)7)(C) She did that for years. She can be very 5 good at that.

6 I've just seen where her, and in some 7 cases her friends that she hired, people wonder how is 8 so and so still in that position? It just doesn't 9 make sense, they don't produce. What they do produce 10 requires rework, how can that be?

11 And then when she came and told us that 12 F was being fired for sustained poor performance, 13 that made no sense. That made no sense to anybody 14 that I talked to that knew him.

15 And I worked with him very closely while 16 he was here, worked with him before. It didn't fit.

17 And plus, he was only here forl (b)(7)(¢ of which 18 a good chunk of that time he was on (b)(7)(C) 19 ~(b)(7)(C)1 20 Which we did very well on, in fact, he 21 received a lot of praise. He was spending a lot of 22 time on that. And on theI (b)(7)(C) 23 (b)(7)(C) which was, he did a good job 24 on that, but it was kind of mess because of legal and 25 labor and there was so much confusion over that.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

f202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.realrgross.com

36 1 People wanted to do things that I know, in 2 labor they were saying you can't do that. So there 3 were issues with that. But he still, it got out on 4 time and it's been revised subsequently to actually 5 change it to the way that he said it should've been to 6 begin with. Because he had good experience in ()7 7 That's what he had done.

(b)(7)(C) Are you aware of 9 any evidence that would show that )(C) was 10 retaliated against by management?

11 (b)(7)Z(C) I don't know how, I mean, 12 I don't know what would constitute evidence for 13 something like that. I don't know. But if you had to 14 ask me, do I think it happened? Yes. I think it 15 happened.

16 Could I pull a document? No. I don't 17 think that even anything like that would exist aside 18 from someone saying to you, I'm going to get ())C)for 19 what he did. And I don't have that.

20 (b)(7)(C) Has there been 21 any talk about that at all? Yes, people talk here at 22 the plant about certain people. You know, whether or 23 not they discriminated against him or were out to get 24 him in any way.

25 (b)()(C) IYou know, I think initially NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

37 1 there was a lot of conversation about it, obviously 2 when it happened. I think you'd probably benefit more 3 from talking with some of the people in ()7 that he 4 talked to, that had more first hand interaction and 5 experience.

6 I think that, because the impression that 7 I got is they were more shocked by it. They were more 8 like, but he was the person who was helping us. How 9 did this happen? He was the person who got results 10 when we had questions.

II In fact,) told me when I was going up, 12 because 1 they started to come to me. She said 13 don't be al (b)(7)(C) And I just looked at her.

14 [ (b)(7)(C) *hat did she mean 15 by that?

16 (b)(7)(C) I don't know. She said you 17 don't need to be solving all their problems. I said 18 [E.c f somebody comes to me with an issue, I'm bound, 19 just in the way that we expect everybody here, to help 20 them resolve that issue.

21 That's exactly what we talk to everybody 22 about doing all the time. You don't just say no, 23 don't talk to me about it. That's not right.

24 (b)(7)(C) Well, let's 25 speculate for a moment here. Why wouldn't someone NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20D05-3701 www.nealrgross.com

38 1 likeb)(7)(C)an (7)(C)elping people out with their 2 issues? I mean, is it because it's taking them away 3 from work? Any idea why she would feel this way?

iJThe only reason that I can 4

5 think of is that (b)(7)(C) was there. And 6 again, was hand picked by (b)(7)(C) o be that person out 7 there taking care of things.

8 And she had, I'm assuming, she didn't want 9 ()))o fail. She didn't want herself to be seen as 10 a failure, maybe, for putting )C) n a position.

11 The same way she would get very defensive 12 when I would bring anything up about we're not getting 13 these results, and these are all (b)(7)(C) ctions.

14 Here's the list of ongoing actions that we continue to 15 have from meeting with our IT Department to get that 16 resolved. And working with the SAP individuals.

17 I said, we're continuing to slide on this.

18 She didn't like that. She didn't like it wheni(7)(c) 19 had a lot of issues. And again, she hand picked

. (b)(7,)(C) 20 21 She hand picke (b)(7)(C) to be a 22 i b(C !She hand picked, what's her name? I can't 23 remember the other person's name right now that"s over 24 in there.

25 But in my opinion, she made a lot of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

39 1 mistakes in promoting these people and putting them in 2 these positions. They weren't ready. They didn't 3 have the skill set and it caused a lot of turmoil 4 within the division.

5 And, in fact, she had just gotten over, 6 she had hired a (b)(7)(C) (b)(7)(C) who 7 completely didn't work out. She had hired him from 8 (b)(7)(C) 9 And he (b)(7)(C) before 10 so he had some experience. But with the site, but he 11 failed miserably at ourI (b)(7)(C) And 12 it created her a whole lot of work.

13 I mean, it was a big black eye for her to 14 deal with. And he's still here. He took aI (b)(7)(C) 15 (b)(7)(C) He's still here. And she's still chasing 16 him to ding his performance because his manager said, 17 he was pressured by (b toI (b)(7)(Coan' t be ae CI 18 he's not doing that well.

19 And he was like, he's doing really, really 20 well where he is now. He might've been a I7 21 but he's an (b)(7)(C) " Because he 22 told me, he says, (b)(7)

(C) is still chasinm (b)(7)(C) 23 I said, you know, because it was at the 24 calibration meeting where she questioned his judgment.

25 And to me that's just, it's not surprising anymore.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

40 1 It's like she's going to be out for [bX()(C) as long as 2 he's here.

3 She made a bad choice in hiring him. He 4 didn't make a bad choice in accepting. I mean, well, 5 maybe he did, but I don't know what he was explained 6 what the job was going to be.

7 But that all happened before b)ame.

8 And to me there's a pattern. I mean, I don't like 9 being picked up and stuck over there. I'm doing it.

10 I'm doing a good job. I've always done a good job 11 where ever I've gone.

12 But the method made no sense to me. And 13 I know it didn't follow our policy. But at the same 14 time, I'm not going to argue with them because I need 15 a job.

(b)(7)(C) 16 IOkay.

Anything 17 else?

18 No. That's a lot.

19 I Yes.

20 21 (b)(7)(C) I I just want to 22 make sure we get all the information that you have to 23 of e r.

(b)(7)(C) Yes. I would encourage you 24 25 maybe to talk to some people up in they have more NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

41 1 direct answers for some of those, I think.

2 (b)(7)(C) Okay. (C) 3 ibhave I or any other NRC representative 4 threatened you in any manner, or offered you any 5 reward in return for this tatement?

(b)(7)(C) No you have not.

6

.7 (b)(7)(C) Have you given 8 this statement freely and voluntarily?

9 [ (b)(7C) *es I have.

10 I (b)(7)(C) Is there anv 11 issue or topic of a specific nature that was not 12 addressed and is relevant to this investigation?

13 (b)(7)(C) ýot that I can recall.

14 (b)(7)(C) At this time the 15 interview will be concluded. The time is 16 approximately 1:45 p.m.

17 (Whereupon, the interview in the above-18 entitled matter went off the record at 1:45 p.m.)

19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

a CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:

Name of Proceeding: Interview of (b)(7)(C) 1.

Docker Number: 4-2011-059 Location: San Clemente, California were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape(s) provided by the NRC.

(b)(7)(C)

I Official transcriber Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.com