ML12320A417
| ML12320A417 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | San Onofre  |
| Issue date: | 11/03/2011 |
| From: | NRC/OI/RGN-III/FO |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 4-2011-059, FOIA/PA-2012-0238 | |
| Download: ML12320A417 (78) | |
Text
EXHIBIT 14 Case No. 4-2011-059 EXHIBIT 14
1 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 20 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
+
+
+++
+
OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS INTERVIEW
x IN THE MATTER OF:
INTERVIEW OF (b)(7)(C)
(CLOSED)
V 01 Case No.
4-2011-059 x
Thursday, November 3, 2011 Meeting Room NRC Resident Inspector's office San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station 5000 Pacific Coast Highway near San Clemente, California The above-entitled interview was conducted at 10:15 a.m.
- a5formation in this record was deftted in accorcanca with t Freedom nf 1rMatiolu Act, oemotions
()?
BEFORE:
tow0 2--, 0 J-3 1-059 t (202) 234-4433 (b)(7)(C) 1 4 EXHIBT/L7_' -
NEAL R. GROSS PAGE
/
OF 7 PAGEO COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com I'
2 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES:
On Behalf of the Interviewee, Other Individuals Involved in the Investiqation and Southern California T
Edison Company:
of (b)(7)(C)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www.nealrgross.com
3 1
2 3
4 5
6
.7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 10:15 a.m.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay, we' re on the record.
This is an interview of (b)(7)(C)
Today's date is November
- 3rd, 2011.
It is approximately 10:15 a.m.
The location of this interview is in the Resident Inspector's office at the San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station in San
- Clemente, California.
Present at this interview are (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) j This investigation involves an allegation of discrimination against a (b)(7)(C) for reporting nuclear safety concerns to the NRC.
And it's reported under 4-2011-059. L ()7C is12l C
lepresenting you personally in regard to this investigation?
S(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
Do you understand the purpose of her presence here today?
O!Y e s.
(b)(7)(C) es (b)(7)(C)
Do you understand that (b)(7)(c) lso represents the company and other individuals?
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4
(b)(7)(C)
Does your employer require you to have an attorney present when you are being interviewed by the NRC Office of Invest igat ions?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
(b)(7)(C)
Were you in any way threatened with an adverse action if you did not request corporate counsel?
(b)(7)(C) o you feel that you would suffer any adverse consequences from your employer if you would've elected not to have personal representation?
(b)(7)(C)
No (b)(7)(C)
Will vour testimony attorney's in the matter be in any way in.
presence?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
hibited by the I
(b)(7)(C)
IDo you understand that you have a right to a private interview with me at your convenience?
(b)(7)(C) es.
(b)(7)(C)
With that understanding, do you still want (b)(7)(C) resent as your representative?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
5 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 1i 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
Thank you.
b)(7)(C)i for the record, will you please state your full name, and your firm, and the scope of your representation, please?
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) b)(7)(c"I And I 'm here today representing
(
tb()()
he company, and other witnesses in this matter.
(b)(7)(C)
DO you anticipate a
conflict of interest with respect to your representation of' (b)(7)(C)
- Is an individual, and your concurrent representation of SCE?
(b)(7)(C)
I do not at this time.
(b)(7)(C) n the event that a conflict were to arise during the course of this interview or this testimony, what action would you take?
S (b)(7)CI would inform (b)(7)(C) that I could no longer represent her, that I would continue to represent the company and other witnesses.
I would inform her of her right to choose to continue this interview without representation, or to ask for a postponement to seek representation of her own NEAL'R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
6 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 choosing.
(b)(7)(C)
Thank you.
(b)(7)
Thankyou.(C) the NRC 0I protocol includes a swearing in of witnesses.
Do you have any objection to being sworn in this morning?
(b)(7)(c)
No.
I (b)(7)(C)
ICan you raise your right hand, please?
Do you swear that the information that you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
(b)(7)(C) do.
(b)(7)(C)
- Thank you.
can you give for the record, your full name, please?
current position?
I (b)(7)(C)
And who are you employed by?
been manager here?
(b)(7)(C)
(b NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701
)(7)(C)
I www.neairgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 7
(b)(7)(C)
I 've been in my current position, in (b)(7)C) it will be (b)(7)C)
I've been a manager sinceF(b)(7)(C) I believe.
(b)(7XC) kay.
Do you have any other experience in the nuclear industry?
I
ýNo.
I've been here my entire career.
I've been with Southern California Edison for the most part.
(b)(7)(C) o you have any military experience?
Lj)()(Cij No.
(b)(7XC)
=
Can you give me a brief description of your position ofl (b)(7)(C)
]
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
Sure.
b()C (b)(7)(C)
I (b)(7)(C)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www.neairgross.com
8 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 group.
g (b)(7)(C)
Okay, well, thank you.
Before we went on the record I was telling you about the focus of my investigation and what we'll be discussing here this morning, and howI (b)(Z)(C) ad come to the NRC and raised some allegations.
It's my understanding that you actually hired (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
That' s correct.
(b)(7)(C)
!And this would've been in[
r I
(b)(7)(C)
I I
I (b)(7)(C)
ýes.
I (b)(7)(C) 1 Okay.
How did you come about to hire him?
He wasi (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
In (b)(7)(C) y division had received a lot of additional work and I received approval to do a reorganization.
And part of that reorganization was to hire additional managers.
I had a lot of vacant positions to hire in.
I posted the position for the (b)(7)(C)
I I
(b)(7)(C)
And that means that people within the company could apply for it and people outside the company could apply for it.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 9
I received a call from (b)(7)(C)
ýwho was a manager here in the (b)(7)(C)
He's not at SONGS any longer.
And he told me that he had been talking to 7)(Cirecently and that he had tol c
that I was hiring.
I(b)(7)(C)I and at the time I was thel (b)(7)(C)
And I had a lot of interface with him because he did a lot of the (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
I I
I.
Then he went toI (b)()C)l I and he was a
()7(
p in the I(b)(7)(C)
C)
(phonetic).
And then when (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
Got sidetracked a little bit there, but just so you know how I (b)(7)C SI Sad told him that I had an opening.
AndJD called me and left me a message on my voice mail.
And said I heard that you have an open position, and I was wondering if you could call me back and we could talk about it.
So I did not make the initial call to him.
I did return his phone call and I told NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
10 1
him, you know, what the position entailed, similar to 2
what he could read, if he was just reading it from the 3
job posting.
And I said if you're interested, apply.
4 And that was really the extent of the conversation.
S(b)(7)(C)
IWere you on the 6
interview panel for him?
7 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
I was the 9
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And he 10 eventually was accepted into the (b)(7)(C)
- osition, 11 correct?
12 T(b)(7)(c) That's correct.
13 (b)(7)(C)
He started in 14 (b)(7)(C) is I
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) 16 1
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And what 17 were his initial responsibilities here?
18 (b)(7)(C)
The position had 19 responsibility for the (b)(7)(C) 20 (b)(7)(C) 21 22 When he first got here, because I had a 23 lot of extensive experience in (b(7)(C) 24 and I was basically running that until I got the 25 manager in place.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
11 1
So we had a conversation and I said, how 2
about you get your (b)(7)(C) which 3
(b)(7)(C) was a
(b)(7)(C)
-eporting to this 4
(b)(7)(C) position.
And the (b)(7)(C) 5 which was!
(b)(7)(C) he was the (b)(7)(C)
ýeporting 6
this.
7 You get those (b)()(C)
Iup and running.
8 Those arel (b)(7)(C) lareas of responsibility, 9
and I'll hang onto b7 and keep it running until 10 it's, because we thought is he has (b)(7)(C)Jareas, is to 11 get
)up and running, he could tackle the toughest 12 one, which was going to be the (b)(7)(C) 13 So we had talked about me doing that for a 14 few months.
And that's how we started off.
15 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
When I 16 spoke withI (b)(7)(C) he told me that, at least in the 17 J
(b)(7)(C) he was (b)(7)(¢)7 J
18 (b)(7)(C)
One of them was a 19 (b)(7)(C) 20 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
21 (b)(7)(C)
Another one was 22 a
(b)(7)(C) 23 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
24 (b)(7)(C)
IWere you more or 25 less on board with him participating in these NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
%wv*E.......
12 1
projects?
2 (b)(Z)(C)
Yes.
I was experiencing some 3
performance issues with him right off the bat, within 4
the first month after he got here.
5 I received a call from mC b)IC) t the 6
time was (b)(7)(C) he's not here any longer.
And 7
he asked me if b)(7)(C ould, they were at a senior 8
leadership off site, and they were looking for people 9
to put on this project and ame had come up.
10 I told (b)(7)(C)hat I would let I go.
I 11 was having issues with jjjj!but I really was giving 12 him the benefit of the doubt.
He was relocating from 13 northern California, he was struggling trying to find 14 a home.
15 The company had put him up in corporate 16 housing but he seemed very distracted.
And so I was 17 very supportive of him and I hadn't elevated his 18 performance issues to my Director at that point.
19 Because I was trying to give him an opportunity to get 20 his feet on the ground, kind of get settled.
21 But I did support him going to thei c
22 project.
It was my understanding that it was a 40-23 hour a week commitment.
Most of us exempt employees 24 here are working more hours than that with our info 25 forum being in recovery.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 1
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 13 And (b)(7)(C)
- ho was the (b)(7)(C)
I (b)(7)(C) hat project, had told me that he only neededl2~
f7(*or 40 hours4.62963e-4 days <br />0.0111 hours <br />6.613757e-5 weeks <br />1.522e-5 months <br />.
And then after that he could still kind of keep his group running and keep things going.
And so, yes, I stepped in to cover his area while he was on the project.
(b)(7)(C) *okay.
(b)(7)(c)
- But, can we just take a quick break?
I just want to talk a minute.
(b)(7)(C)
Sure.
(Whereupon, the interview in the above-entitled matter went off the record and went back on the record at 10:30 a.m.)
I (b)(7)(C)
I Back on the
- record, time is approximately 10:30 a.m.
So you stated that initially, l
bEC as not meeting some of the demands in his job.
I'm paraphrasing here.
And you attributed that to his relocating and his adjustment to a new position.
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
Can you give me one example where he wasn't meeting his expectations?
I (b)(7)(C)
ýe was not providing oversight to his (b)(7)(C)
The (b)(7) groups that he was responsible for, we were having performance issues.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
14 1
And an example is the Work Force Oversight 2
Committee.
That's a high level committee meeting that 3
involves the vice president and directors, where 4
people go in and request to replace staff.
S There were errors in the packages.
I 6
attend those meetings.
And so I ended up having to 7
set up a time where I could review the package ahead 8
of time, because I lost confidence that when I was 9
going in there that the information was going to be 10 accurate.
11 He failed to process a demotion for one 12 his employees after being reminded for four times.
It 13 took us several months to get that, it resulted in an 14 employee relations issue.
15 The employee initially agreed to take a 16 salary decrease.
And then we ended up not doing that, 17 so it had a financial impact on the company as well as 18 the employee morale issue.
19 TheI (b)(7)(C) the project that 20 he was on, he was not proactive in getting it issued 21 and he actually issued it without having 22 (b)(7)(C)
ýreview it.
23 I received complaints from both of those 24 organizations that he had put things in the procedure 25 that was their responsibility, without talking to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 wwwnealrgross.com
15 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 them.
And when I talked to him about it, he said that he was running up against a time commitment date, and he decided to meet the commitment date instead of issuing it correctly and then he would go back and revise it.
That was a high level (b)(7)(C) that was across the site.
That was one of the projects that he was on.
We were having some issues with org structure.
And the org term (phonetic) is really kind of the org structure.
Not just in aJ b)
(b)(but also across the site.
My organization is responsible for maintaining the integrity of the structure.
We had to do some clean up with our rollover into SAP.
There was still come clean up items that we had to do.
His group was not meeting the deadlines of getting that updated.
On two occasions they gave me information that I
reported to our Z (b)(7(c)
(b)(7)(C) at the
- time, that was inaccurate.
And so his lack of leadership and oversight over just those (C) groups, when he didn't have the biggest group responsible.
He was very NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
16 1
unfocused and really wasn't paying attention.
2 1
(b)(7)(C)
IHow soon after 3
starting the job did you observe some of these 4
shortcomings?
5 l
(b)7)(C)
A month after he started we 6
had an employee relations issue, where he had one of 7
his managers, or one of his direct reports, excuse me, 8
(b)(7)(C) phonetic),
who was having some issues.
9 She was a brand new manager.
She came 10 from corporate.
She needed some experience in being II a good manager and dealing with people.
12 And some of her employees complained to 13 c*bout her management style.
And he called her 14 into his office and had a discussion.
And he sent her 15 home to think about what she had done.
And then he 16 called her employees in to his office and told her 17 employees what he had done.
18 So I got a call.
I was off site at the 19 time.
I got a call from the employee, (b)(7)(C) nd she 20 was very upset and she said she felt humiliated.
And 21 that was not a good decision on his part, to first of 22 all, send her home to think about what she had done.
23 And then also to communicate to her direct reports the 24 action he had taken.
25 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Did you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I
17 get any feedback from anyone from these projects that he was assigned?
You had mentioned earlier, the (b)(7)(C)
And I think you touched upon that.
And then you had theI (b)(7)(C) whatever it was that he was on.
Did you get any negative feedback?
S (b)(7)(C)
Besides what she already talked about from (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
I Yes.
()7 I did receive some feedback on the __________________
- from, (bj(7(Cjj-He was the (b)(7)(C) at the time.
And he said that he had made several attempts to reach
[)((jandJ(b)(7 )()
idn't call him back.
Or when he did call him back, it was several days later.
We were running up against the Closure Review Board commitment date and Clwas nervous that we weren't going to meet the date.
And he was frustrated with because he didn't feel like things were progressing.
And then the ones that I previously told you about.
(b)(7)(c)
Was the manager responsible for the (b)(7)(C)
He didn't give me negative feedback.
The feedback he gave me was that he does NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
18 1
what I ask him to do.
2 And I said, is he performing as a(7)(C) 3 And he said, no, he is doing what I tell him to 4
do.
And actually (b)(7)(C) a (bw(7)(C) Jwho was 5
assigned to the project also, he said, I'm seeing more 6
leadership out of thel (b)(7)(C) han I'm seeing out of 8
I (b)(C)
Okay.
When I 9
spoke with (b)(7)(C) told me that on or around the 10 mid-June 2010 time frame, you had a meeting with him 11 and you told him to stop addressing concerns from (C) 12 employees.
Do you remember that at all?
13 (Yes I do.
14 (b)(7)(C)
What happened 15 there?
16 (b)(7)(C)
I did not tell him to stop 17 addressing concerns fromi employees.
What I did 18
- was, di 7)C)did not have responsibility for(7) there 7 9 (was)(C) the manager over 20 r
b))C
~i s a supervisor.1ci And (b))(7)
(phone t ic) 21
~cJs a supervisor. Ad C
22 was a new manager that I had brought in to help 23 oversee IjcJ and the (b)(7)(C) 24 C) was being recognized for having great 25 stand-ups.
And stand-ups are a weekly meeting that we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
19 1
have across the station, where we talk about topics 2
that everyone gets the same message at the same time.
3 And
(
had a really good forum where 4
employees, once they did the stand-up, they were 5
employee
- led, and then they went around to the 6
individual groups and got report outs from the 7
represented employees.
8 And senior leadership had recognized (7) 9 for having a good employee engagement, things like 10 that.
And so I had encouraged my entire leadership 11 team to go to (
and observe, so we could take good 12 practice and bring it out across the division.
13 During one of those stand-ups, employees 14 were expressing some frustrations and concerns.
And is lIi)Cade a comment that well (b)(7)(C) nd I are here 16 now.
And this isn't a quote because I wasn't there.
17 And we understand your concerns aren't 18 being addressed.
And sI (b)(7)(C) nd I are here now so 19 we're going to resolve your issues.
20 So what I told him was that the management 21 was aware of what was going on up there because we had 22 had conversations, (b)(7)(C) an (b)(7)(C) nd I had 23 had conversations about some of their frustrations.
24 Some of them were SAP.
The work process 25 changed a lot for when we put the new system in.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
20 some of it Was,(is kind of up in their own area up 2
there and they all sit together.
3 And there's some employees, you know, 4
that, just a typical employee behavior where they 5
don't like this person or you don't like that person.
6 So what I toldi was, I said, you know, 7
it's okay to listen to their concerns, because we all 8
want to listen to employees' concerns.
But he wasn't 9
following up with the supervisors and the managers up 10 there.
11 And so he was not helping the situation, 12 because the managers and the supervisors were the ones 13 who had to resolve the concerns.
So I did not, at any 14 time, tell him not to listen to their concerns.
15 1
(b)(7)(C)
IOkay.
Well, were 16 you advising him to just consult with the supervisors 17 and the managers involved?
Or just let the managers 18 and supervisors handle the issue?
19 B
- tBoth, really.
I wanted him to 20 make the supervisors and the managers aware of what 21 was going on.
But I also wanted him to focus on the 22 areas that he was responsible for.
23 And there was some issues with his working 24 relationship with the]
(b)(7)(C)
- specially up there, 25 and this seemed to be adding fuel to the fire.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
21 (b)(7)(C)
What was going on 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there?
(C gain, I wasn't there but the feedback that I received was one, when c)Jas up there in the stand-up and said I(b)(7)(C) nd I are here and we're going to resolve all your issues,J (
was there.
And (b)(7)(C) was
- there, it's my understanding.
I wasn't there.
And they felt that he was trying to undermine them and he wasn't helping with the problems.
There was also a time when, I encouraged Eb7 ) nc (b 72(Co work out their issues because _,.'
was coming to me saying,Jb7c) s doing this.
23))
was coming to me saying, is doing this.
And we're managers, you know, not that I didn't want to be in the middle, but I wanted them to work on their relationships because we're all on the same leadership team.
(b)(7)(C)
ICan I interrupt you there for a minute?
This meeting where (b)(7)(C) said something to the effect of well, me aný (b)(7)(C) are here now.
And we're able to help you with the issues or something to that effect.
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neatrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (b)(7)(C) 22
]ashe (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
There was F(b)()(C-)
another incident up in (C),during that time, but this was not that one.
(b)(7)(C) okay.
Well, was there another type of incident, if you want to call it that, that took place aroundI (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C And he was at a meeting similar to this.
And he was approached by some rank and file employees about (b)(7)(C) issue.
That was another issue, right?
That wasn't the one you were just discussing?
(b)(7)(C That's correct.
That was another issue.
-i f
I I
(b)(7)(C) issue.
Was that ever brought to yc (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
That attention.
That was the (b)(7)(C)
I k That was another ur attention?
was brought to my (b)(7)(C)
I i
I f
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) d he was I Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
I (b)(7)(C)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 I
I (202) 234--4433 www~nealrgross~com
23 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (b)(7)(C)
I (b)(7)(C) 11 right.
What happened?
They informed [
(b)(7)(C) f this issue.
And did he resolve it?
(b)(7)(C)
What I was told, I wasn't here, but the information that I received when I
returned to work was that he contacted (b)(7)(C who was thel (b)(7)(C) at the time, and worked outl (b)(7)(C)
I employees.
And because the (b)(7)(C) it's my understanding that he didn't discuss that with 7C)or ()(c)at the time, and there was an issue NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 24 between them that he was stepping in and changing their work process and their schedule without their agreement or knowledge.
(b)(7)(C)
All right.
To your knowledge, were the employees happy with the final result?
I (bi7)(C)
I believe that the employees felt thal (b)(7)(C)ntervened and helped them.
I did not have a discussion with any of the employees, that's just the feedback I received.
But also the feedback I received was that the change that he made really didn't work and they had to come up with an alternate plan.
(b)(7)(C)
I know we' re going back a little ways, but do you remember why it didn't work?
L
(
I don't remember.
If I could speculate, which I'm not sure if I'm supposed to do that, I would say that theI (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
I (b)(7)(C)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www.nealrgross.com
25 1
normally didn't.
And as for aI (b)(7)(C)
I okay, we 2
can do that.
But as theF (b)(7)(C) 3 (b)(7)(C) 4 (b()C But wasl b()C the 5
only area that needed (C) coverage?
G
- Well, we have 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 (b)(7)(C) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 (b)(7)(C)
Let me tell you 21 what (b)(7)(C) iold me and you tell me if it's accurate 22 or not.
He said that he was acting for you one day 23 and he appeared at this meeting.
24 And I can't remember what they call it, I
25 don't know if it was a stand-up meeting, or a skipped NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nearross.com
%*IB *v
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 level meeting, I frankly don't remember, it's not that important.
But he was approached during this meeting from employees saying how (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
According to[
(b)(7)(C) -he looked into it with1 (bh7)C)
- nd he was given the notion that well,
- yes, I mean they don't have to (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
I And the situation was resolved.
Now I know from previous interviews with some of your subordinates, with some of your other managers and supervisors that, you know, people still (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www.nealrgros~s.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 27 (b)(7)(C)
So it wasn't a total victory on the part of the employees, but M LZ(b7 nformed me that this was something that he was able to produce for the employees in your absence.
Is any of that inaccurate at all?
Other than the fact that people had tol (b)(7)(C) and you were short staffed.
(b)(7)(C)
I wouldn't say it's inaccurate.
I would say that it's missing the piece where there was some coordination with the management involved in that area, to make sure that what he was committing tol (b)(7)(C) would work for them.
And ab7)(C) asn't familiar with that work group and the level of responsibility and the commitment, he should've consulted with the management in that area to make sure that it would work.
(b)(7)(C)
Jould that bgZ S(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
According to (b)(7)C)
Just wasn't able to get the job
- done, for whatever reason.
And that's why the employees went to him as opposed to her.
Did you ever get that impression at all, that employees weren't happy with_ (b)(7)(C)J that' s why they went to b(7)(C)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
28 1(b)(7)(C)
We had some issues with 2
as far as she was a new manager.
She didn't have a 3
lot of experience and her results, at times, were not 4
as timely as what I would've expected.
5 I am not aware that employees were unhappy 6
with her to the extent that they would bypass her and 7
go to (b)(7)(C) 8 (b)(7)(C) kay.
Well, your 9
primary issue was then, (b)(7)(C) hould've gone, or at 10 least include (b)(7)(C)
,in this whole process.
Is 12 that fair to say?
12 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
13 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
So did his 14 performance ever change during the course of the 15 (b)(7) 16 (b)(7)(C)
His performance progressively 17 became worse.
He was very distracted.
I met with him 18 on several occasions.
19 Off the top of my head I remember b)(
20 (b)(7)(C) we talked about his areas of 21 responsibility, his lack of leadership, the (CIj 22 (b)7)(C) e emotion was effective in April, and it didn't 23 get processed until September 13th.
That was after 24 several, four reminders from me.
25 Every time I
talked to
- him, he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
29 1
acknowledged that he was distracted and unfocused.
2 And so I would say, it was a steady decline in his 3
performance.
4 (b)(7)(C)
When I spoke with 5
() 7 )C)Je told me about him having to process a pay 6
decrease for (b)(7)(C) 7 (b)(7)(C) 1Yes.
8 (b)(7)(C)
He just mentioned (b)(7) 9 it.
He says that he was unable to do it because E(C 10 (b)(7)(c) idn't report directly to him.
He reported 11 directly to someone else and that kind of threw a 12 wrench in the machinery here.
And he was unable to 13 perform that task.
Any response to that?
14 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
When b7)(C) eft, 15 (b)(7)(C)
I he reported directly 16 to me.
Wheni (b)(7)(C) he reported directly to 17
)7(C 18 As part of this restructuring that I had 19 mentioned earlier, E iired b(.7C) over the 20 (b)(7 group and (b)(7)(C) as part of an 21 agreement we had made with him where he didn't want to 22 manage people anymore, was moved under bIc) 23 (C) had the ability, in the systembC) 24 reported to I Buti (
ad the responsibility over 25 the (b)(7)(C) even though he wasn't functionally NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202* 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
30 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 managing them at that point.
S (b)(7)(C)
I(phonetic) is the S(b)(7)(C) and he could've went to her and said, I need some help with this.
But he told me on two different occasions that the demotion had actually been processed, when it hadn't.
And so I was continually having to follow-up.
So even though he told me this is taken care of, I would check the system because I had access to my entire organization, and I could see that it wasn't.
So on two separate occasions he was not truthful with me.
(b)(7)(C)
If memory serves me correct, when I spoke with (b)(7)(C) c e said that he went to Human Resources to try to resolve this issue with (b)(7)(C)
And they told him yes, you are the manager.
However, we're not able to take whatever action that they needed to with the pay decrease or the demotion because he wasn't his direct supervisor.
I don't want to sound argumentative here.
1 (b)(7Ic)
'Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
But I 'm just telling you that s)7)(C)S telling me that he went to Human Resources and they, more or less, put the kabash NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
31 1
2 3
4 5
6
.7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 on that.
Does that make any sense?
(b)(7)(C)
He did that several months after the initial agreement took place.
When he contacted E(C) this is what told me.
When he contacted[
(b)(7)(C) nd J
(cold him that as part of
()I)C (b)(7)(C) l1said that he didn't want t manage people anymore.
(b)(7)(C) fhen he was in his managing people, (b)(7)(C) position here, received a
n (b)(7)(C) on his performance evaluation.
So wheni (b)(7)(C) and he said, I didn't want to manage people, I agreed to that because he wasn't being successful in that position.
What they agreed to was a which is a
(b)(7)(C)
- level, which is an (b)(7)(C)
Through the course of these several months that were going on, oh, let me back up a little bit.
So at the time that (b)(7)(C) it was my understanding from that ad agreed to the position with a five percent salary increase.
Then as the months progressed and things weren't being handled, I was aware that, (b)(7)(c) ad sent me an email, I believe it was inr (b)(7)(C) that said, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005.3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 Human Resources is
- saying, you know, that the five percent salary decrease isn't appropriate because (b)7)(C) ad again, gone back to(D) nd said I don't want the level of responsibility for I want to be anEb(7C)
So he ended up being an I(b)(7)(C)
I F
because that position was within the salary band of where he was, the decision was made not to do the salary decrease.
But that was several months after, when
[IDPCJ otified me of that, he had already told me on two separate occasions that he had processed the demotion.
(b)(7)(C) care of that?
I (b)(7)(C)
IYes.
I Z]That he did take I
(b)(7)(C) 0, yo evaluation takes place inI (b)(7XC) 7 L b(7(:
That's correct.
u know, his (b)(7)(C)
Now up until that
- point, is there anything else you want to add?
Is there anything about (b)(7)(c) _hat we should talk about?
I'm just trying to stay within the time line here.
(b)(7)(C)
- Well, refer to your time NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgrosscom
33 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 II 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 line.
[ *j*"j' Yes, refer to, okay.
(b)(7)(
There's a lot of detail.
(b)(7)(c) 7 Okay.
So going back to he started on (b)(7)(C And then (D)(7)(C) is the incident I told you about where he mishandled a
situation with one of his managers,I (b)(7)(C)
I coached him on his management style and told him that he had inappropriately handled that situation.
And then we go to[
(b)(7)(C)
I (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C when I returne (b)(7)(C) ad told me that, (b)(7)(C) i s the (b)(7)(C)
Her responsibility is to make sure that (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) as in his office and (b)(7)(C) was i (b)(7)(C) office with him.
An (b)(,)(c) alled =b()C)
[EDC own to his office and he asked her about some confidential information.
And 7C) said that she wasn't comfortable discussing this confidential information NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
34 1
with him with i()
n the room.
And (b)(7)(C) esponse 2
was he's part of the management team.
And just 3
basically said, tell me what I want to know.
4 (b)(7)(C)
Iwas very uncomfortable with that.
5 When I talked to JE)(
bout that he gave me the same 6
response.
And he said, you know, (c) part of the 7
management team and everybody knows what goes on 8
around here anyway.
9 And I said no.
Confidential information 10 is a business reason need to know.
And he put one of 11 his employees in a compromising situation.
And it's 12 his job, ultimately as mine, to protect confidential 13 information.
14 And then we go into, you know, 15 (b)(7)(C)
I And I had some issues 16 with (b)C)pdating his time card accurately.
And as 17 ultimately the (b)(7)(C) this is very 18 important.
19 You know, you have a responsibility to 20 (b)(7)(C)
I There were several 21 occasions where he would take time off and not reflect 22 it on his time card.
And when I would go in to 23 approve his time card, I would remind him.
So that 24 started in April.
25 On 7c I
met with him to discuss his NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
35 1
performance expectations.
And those are all 2
documented.
The things we talked about were 3
communicating status to me on his area of 4
responsibility.
5 The oversight of his group's projects.
6 Being more hands on with the new employees and the 7
structure to insure everyone is productive and working 8
on the projects necessary.
9 Addressing performance issues, he had some 10 performance issues in his area that he was not taking ii care of.
Improving the relationship with one of his 12 direct reports, which wasI (b)(7)(C) 13 And I needed him to step up so that I 14 could stop managing his area of responsibility.
At 15 that time he said that he appreciated the feedback and 16 realized that he had been distracted.
And he said he 17 needed for me to provide him feedback to get back on 18 track.
19 1(b)(7)(C)
Okay, so he took 20 it with a good attitude?
21 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
22 (b)(7)(C)
- This, I don't 23 know what you call this, a mid-year then, well, it 24 wouldn't be a mid-year evaluation, it was some sort of 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234.4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v
36 1l (b)(7)(C)I:
That was just a documentation 2
of my discussion with him.
3 L
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
This 4
wasn't a formal, you know, it's that time of the year 5
where you sit down with your boss and are evaluated.
6 This was something that you initiated?
7 (b)(7)(C)
Right.
8 (b)(7)(C)
Just to inform 9
him--
10 (b)(7)(C)
He was not meeting I I (b)(7)(C) about some of 12 his shortcomings, okay.
13 1
(b)(7)(C)
I Right.
And then on 14 was the[
(b)(7)(C)
On the 3rd I 15 received a call from our Director,I (inaudible),
16 saying that he had asked j to give him a report a 17 couple months ago.
18 And that he was frustrated that he had 19 asked for this report and he never received it.
When 20 I asked 7cbout it, he said that he forgot about 21 it.
And I went to (b)(7)(C) and asked her about it 22 and she got the report right away.
23 Another situation that happened in 24 was that he was, I had a phone conversation witi Eb)(7)(C) 25 about the (b)(7)(C) the org NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
37 1
structure, things that weren't going right.
2 And he had a follow-up meeting with Eci (b)I)IC) hone ic)'(b)(7)(C) l'*
d b)(7)(C) 3b()C cchonetic)d\\
ýn~d =
4 (phonetic),
who were the employees responsible for 5
those work processes, to talk about expectations.
6 And during that meeting (b)(7)(C) aecame very 7
upset because she said that he was unprofessional.
He 8
was intimidating.
She felt threatened in this 9
conversation and when she got up and walked out of his 10
- office, the door slammed and I think she said she 11 opened it and let it go and it hit.
12 She also told me she was angry when she 13 left there.
So b7 en-Cto (b)(7)(C)
Iubicle 14 to tell her to come back into the office.
And 15 told me that she was hysterical, she was sobbing.
She 16 wanted to regain her composure before she went back in 17 there and she was very upset.
18 I was up doing interviews up in staffing 19 office and he paged me.
And said that 7C) was 20 being insubordinate, and he wanted me to support him 21 in placing her on investigatory suspension.
22 And I said, yes, he had already talked to 23 (b)(7)(C) lbout it.
And basically, in his opinion 24 she was being insubordinate.
And I told him that he 25 needed to give her an opportunity to calm down.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
38 1
And so during that time, there were two or 2
three instances where, (b)(7)(C)ould report back, 3
says she's not coming in here. E ould sendL(7c 4
back saying, (b)(7X)(
aid get in my office.
5 And I asked him, I said, you know, if 6
s coming back to you and saying that I (b)(7)(C) 7 hysterical and she's sobbing, she doesn't want to come 8
in here.
Why didn't you go see b) and say, or 9
give her an opportunity to calm down?
So that was the 10 second pretty large employee relations issue that I 11 had to deal with within the first few months.
12
)CCan we just take a moment.
13 I'm going to tell our next witness that we're probably 14 going to be at least 15 minutes, do you think?
15 1
(b)(7)(C)
IYes, that's fine.
16 (b)(7)(C) kr more?
17 F
(b)(7)(C)
We'll go off the 18 record.
19 (Whereupon, the interview in the above-20 entitled matter went off the record and went back on 21 the record at'll:07 a.m.)
22 1
(b)(7)(C)
Back on the 23 record.
Time is approximately 11:07 a.m.
And before 24 we went off the record you were talking about some of 25 these events that you have in your notes in front of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com I
39 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
.0 ii 12 13 14 you.
You can continue.
(b7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
Maybe while we were on break, let me just make clear, did you prepare those notes for this meeting today?
S (b)(7)(C)
-No.
These notes I documented as part of my supervisory responsibilities.
(b)(7)(C)
I Did you keep like a running chronological note taking in your computer?
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
J Okay.
(b)(7)(C) ot for every employee but for issues I do, yes.
(b)(7)(C)
I Okay.
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I
(b)(7)(C) t Okay.
I left off with that it was another employee relations issue.
And then the following day I received an email froml (b)(7)(C) who is (b)(7)(C)
- manager, where i
I was coaching
[(bj)(C))
on passive/aggressive behavior, and meeting expectations, and things like that.
An (b)(7)(C) ias not real happy with that.
She wanted to talk to (bX7)(c) about it.
She had CC'd me on an email that she had sentf()) saying, please call NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
40 1
me to discuss.
2 Then (b)(7)(C) was the (c) stand-up that 3
I had mentioned before where, we talked about that.
4 On jI asked again, whyi (b)(7)(C)
Idemotion 5
was never processed.
And that was again, supposed to 6
happen April 9th.
7 On (b)(7)(C)
[(phonetic),
who 8
was a J (b)(7)(C) in the (b)(7)(C) 9 mentioned to me that she
- was, just in general 10 conversation, I was just talking to her, how things 11 are going.
And she said she was getting ready to go 12 on (b)(7)(C) 1 13 And we were, you know, ini (b)(7)(C)
And 14 I said, ini (b)(7)(C) that's during the outage.
And we 15 have a outage vacation policy, which is Site Directive 16 D035, that says basically we need people here during 17 the outage and vacations will be approved for 18 significant life events, and must be approved by the 19 Division Manager.
20 And I was not aware that thati c) had 21 been approved.
So basically, pproved a(ciI 22 (b)(7)(C) employee without 23 following the Site Directive.
24 And when I talked to him about that he 25 said, I also told him that, at the time we had close NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
41 1
to 200 employees in the division.
And I said, you 2
know, you put me in a very bad position with the rest 3
of the 200 employees.
4 And his response to me was he didn't check 5
the policy and that he had, I'm not going to say the 6
word, but --
7 (b)(7)(C)
Screwed up 8
(b)(7)(C)
- Yes, screwed up.
9 (b)(7)(7) i Had other employees been 10 denied vacation during the period?
11 (b)(7)(c)
- Yes, several employees had 12 been denied vacation because I
was following the 13 policy to the rule.
14 And if it was not a
significant life 15 event, as defined by a wedding, some significant event 16 in someone's life, and I actually received grievances 17 on it from employees that were unhappy that I had 18 denied the vacation.
So this put me in a very bad 19 position with, as far as my division, as the Division 20 Manager.
21 And then on I
discussed (b)(7)(C) 22 working hours with (b)(7)(C)
And I talked about 23 that earlier where (b)(7)(C)ad said 40 hours4.62963e-4 days <br />0.0111 hours <br />6.613757e-5 weeks <br />1.522e-5 months <br /> a week.
24 Again, I met with f n to discuss 25 his performance issues.
And then that day we talked NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
42 1
about the employee relations events in the four months 2
since he had been hired.
I talked about those, that 3
wasl (b)(7)(C) ndI (b)(7)(C) 4 I told him that I was spending more time 5
managing his area of responsibility than he is.
I 6
also told him that his employees were working a
7 significant amount of additional hours and they were 8
putting in more hours than he was.
9 And that he was leaving after the project, 10 and his employees were coming to me looking for 11 guidance.
One of his employees actually said to me, 12 I don't know how to get a hold of him.
Do you know 13 where he is?
So he was not having any contact with 14 his direct reports while he was on this project, from 15 my perception.
16 We talked about the things I had already 17 talked about, thel (b)(7)(C)
I kind of summed 18 it up for that.
That with his high visibility area of 19 responsibility, that he was needed to be more on top 20 of what was going on.
21 We talked about the org structure and that 22 it wasn't being monitored on a monthly basis, as the 23 direction I had given.
The clean-up had basically 24 stopped happening because no one was paying attention 25 to it.
And that I had told ourI (b)(7)(C)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
43 1
on two separate occasions that it was done, so we just 2
talked about that.
3 one of the things when I talked t (b)7)(C 4
about working additional hours.
He said that he was 5
not at documenting the additional hours that he was 6
working.
7 I asked him, I said, you're aware of the 8
expectation that employees are doing daily timekeeping 9
on uncompensated hours.
Even at my level I was doing 10 that on a daily basis.
And he said yes, he was aware 1i of it.
12 So he was aware of the site expectation 13 and he was responsible for that organization, but yet 14 he said that he wasn't documenting his time when I 15 talked to him about it.
16 Again, he said that, I'm sorry.
At the 17 end of the meeting he said that he had never been told 18 these things, I'm sorry, let me back up.
19 Not at the end of the meeting.
During the 20 conversation we were having where we talked about him 21 logging additional
- times, and having employee 22 relations issues, and the things that I just talked 23 about, he told me that he had never been told this 24 before and that he was shocked.
25 And I reminded him that we had talked NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
44 1
about these similar things the previous month, and 2
that this was not the first time that he had heard 3
this.
And again, he thanked me and said he needed a 4
(b)(7)(C)
Ionce in a while.
5 Then we talked about his peer 6
relationships.
And the ongoing feedback that I was 7
receiving from his peer managers that he was 8
alienating himself.
9 I
gave him examples of the stand-up 10 meeting, where he made comments that he an b7)(C) 11 were in place now and that they would address the 12 issues.
I told him again, that that had disturbed 13 L
(b)(7)(C)
Ianc[
Z andc C~
and that they felt that 14 he was undermining them when he was there.
15 He also said that, well, he said he didn't 16 say that.
The three people told me that he did say 17 that, but he said that he didn't say that.
18 I talked to him about the email that he 19 had sent to 7
an
)Cith improvements but he 20
- was, you know, we talked about that where he was 21 getting involved in that.
22 We talked about the email traffic between 23 he and(b) where he was coaching 7c)
And that 24 1E C as upset by that.
25 He also asked me if I had heard a rumor NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
45 1
that he was trying to take my job away from me.
And 2
I said no, I hadn't heard that.
And I said, you know, 3
the higher up you go, the more rumors.
So I really 4
don't know where that came from.
It kind of came out 5
of left field.
6 But I hadn't heard that rumor.
And he 7
said that an employee had seen him and told him that, 8
and that (b)(7)(c) ýad said something to that effect.
9 I don't know if that was true or not.
10 He had told me at that time that he 11 thought there was a conspiracy against him.
And 12 anytime I tried to give him coaching, he was not 13 receptive of the feedback or the coaching.
It was 14 always the other person's fault.
He was defensive.
15 When I
talked to him about his peer 16 relationships, at one point he said, I don't buy that.
17 So I was having a really difficult time getting him to 18 accept the coaching.
But at the end of the meeting he 19 would say thank you for the coaching and he 20 appreciated the feedback.
But there was a disconnect 21 there.
22 I told
(
at the end of that meeting 23 that he was distracted, unfocused, and it appeared 24 that work was the last thing on his mind.
He 25 acknowledged that he wasn't putting in the time and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
46 1
the effort required.
2 He said he tried not to let his personal 3
life interfere with work and that he would do whatever 4
I needed him to do to fix this.
And I told him that 5
I needed him, and his group, to step up and take some 6
of the pressure off of me, because I
was still 7
managing his group and trying to my job at the same 8
time.
- 9okay, and then in(
we had another time 10 card issue.
He had called in and sent me an email 11 requesting a vacation day and said his (b)(7)(C)
I.
12 I reminded him to update his time card.
And then he 13 said that he wanted to work from home.
14 So initially he had requested a vacation 15 day.
And then when I asked him to update his time 16 card, he said he wanted to work from home.
17 And I had told him when heI (b)(7) 18 to Southern California Edison that typically we don't 19 work from home here, because as managers we need to be 20 available to our people.
21 Oni (b)(7)(C)
Ihe sent me an email and asked 22 me, he wanted to meet with me off site after 6 o'clock 23 in Oceanside to talk.
And I wasn't comfortable doing 24 that because of, you know, the performance issues.
25 And I told him that I would be happy to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 47 meet with him, but I wanted to meet with him during business hours.
(b)(7)(C)
That's pretty unusual isn't it?
I (b)(7)(C)
II thought it was unusual.
I wasn't comfortable doing that.
But I wanted to be responsive to him.
(b)(7)(C)
Was there any follow-up to that?
I mean, did you ever ask him later on, you know, why do you want to meet with me off site?
I'm here in my office, come and see me.
(b)(7)(¢)
I didn't ask him that.
But in the email that he sent me he said that he really didn't want to talk at work.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Was this something going on in his personal life, do you think?
(b)(7)(C)
He just said about stuff that's going on.
And during that meeting, I'll get to
- that, we talked mostly about his performance and things like that.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
On the (b)7) Itold 1
that I had approved his time sheet in error, and it was with a group of employees and I hit approve, and asked him to redo his time sheet because he had still NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
48 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 not posted the vacation day for the 7th.
I also sent him an email on that day with the errors from the (b)(7)(C)
Band
(((
acknowledges that they are not meeting my (C) expectations.
He did that on an email.
On the 17th, I'm sorry, theai I asked again, why I (b)(7)(C)
I demotion had not been processed.
And his response was that he failed to have(7ciupdate the system, and the action was completed that day.
On the 16th he asked me to meet with him again, to discuss the meeting that we had on (b)(7)(C) regarding his performance.
On theI (b)(7)(c) we had a calibration meeting for performance evaluations.
And that is something that is done across the
- site, where typically the Division Manager, their direct reports, and the managers
- below, meet and we talk about calibration and make sure that everybody is on the same page in how they rate employees.
During that time, well, let me back up a little bit.
(b)(7)(C) had responsibility for an her name isi (b)(7)(C) phonetic), at the time.
And he had rated her anF(b)(7) hc sa (b)(7)(C)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www~nealrgross.com
49 1
She was new into the position.
She had 2
been there less than six months.
She had a huge jump.
3 She went from anI (b)(7)(C) 1 4
And, you know, she was doing very well at what she was 5
doing, but she hadn't had enough time in the position 6
to do all the duties that an C encompassed.
7 And so I told*7Cyou know, that that was 8
not an E it wasn't inline with the standards of 9
performance and asked him to change the rating.
So he 10 agreed.
He was not happy about it but he did it.
Ii We go into the calibration meeting and 12 we're discussing employees.
The way it works is, you 13 discuss the employees that are below the people that 14 are in the room.
And as you get to the next level, 15 those employees leave.
So you're never talking about 16 the employees while they're in the room.
17 So (b)(7) was sitting in the room and he was 18 just kind of staring at the
- wall, wasn't 19 participating.
And 7
said well, I think C) 20 should be anF7 And I said, you know, based on what, 21 let's talk about that.
22 And so he said well, she does a really 23 good job at
(
which is our (b)(7)(C) 24 (b)(7)(C)
She does, she does a very good 25 job at that.
That's what I was talking about earlier.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 23-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 50 And so we had a discussion about it.
And CJdid not use good judgment in that situation because he did not have direct supervision of that employee.
And at a
(b)7)C)
- Jlevel, he should recognize that someone who has been in position for only six months should not be a, an is the (b)(7)(C) percent of the organization.
And so he was not happy thatb7c)asn't anl and neither waF But I have to look at the entire organization.
And that's really what the calibration meetings are about, is that everyone talks about how their perception --
(b)(7)(C)
Can I ask you a question?
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
Was it inappropriate for J)7to say that this employee deserves an 7for their evaluation?
=(b)(7)(C) D twas not appropriate for him to have the discussion in the meeting or his, and I never told him that it was inappropriate.
What I talked to him about was a lack of judgment at his level in the performance evaluation process.
That he would intervene on someone's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
51 1
behalf when he had no direct supervision or knowledge 2
of that employee's performance.
3 (b)(7)(C)
=
He explained to 4
me that among the purposes of that meeting is for 5
other managers to sound off or bring up good work 6
about other employees, good, bad, or indifferent.
7 The employees might not be their direct 8
reports however, there was one occasion when so and so 9
did a good job for me and I want everyone to know 10 that, including their direct reports so it might be 11 reflected in their appraisal.
I don't know.
That's 12 what he said that one of the purposes was for this 13 meeting.
Is that accurate?
14 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
That's accurate.
15 I
(b)(7)(C)
IOkay.
But you're 16 saying that it was bad judgment on his part to speak 17 up about this particular employee and the possible 18 rating they were supposed to get?
19 (b)(7)(C)
No.
I didn't mean to imply 20 that it was bad judgment for him to speak up.
He 21 continued to argue with the other managers on why he 22 thought that this was a correct appropriate rating.
23 But he did not supervise the individual nor did he 24 look at the rest of the organization.
25 And we had people who had been in position NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v
52 1
for much longer than that
- employee, who were 2
performing better than that employee who were not 3
being given an rating.
So the lack of judgment on 4
his part was not recognizing the other managers' input 5
and accepting it.
He continued to argue as to why 6
that employee deserved that rating.
7 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
So what 8
you're suggesting is that he should've given his two 9
cents and let it ride, and not necessarily argue with 10 other managers, who I'm learning disagreed with him?
11 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
12 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And during 13 this proces (b)(7)(C) as silent?
14 (b)(7)(C) !
Yes.
He did not say a word 15 the entire meeting.
16 (b)(7)(C)
(Okay.
All right.
17 Continue on.
18 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
On thei (b)(7)(C) 19 (b)(7)(C)
He had sent me an 20 email saying I don't know if you know this, but I've 21 been out for the last 1
22 1
Cw who he was reporting to at the 23
- time, knew that he wasn't here but I didn't.
And I 24 asked him to provide me a
(b)(7)(C) that 25 morning.
Because any time an employee is gone for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
53 1
(b)(7)(C) 2 3
I had to remind him throughout the day and 4
he finally faxed it to me at 4:15.
That's just a 5
basic requirement for any
- employee, not just a
6 manager.
7 0 nI (b)(7)(C)
I received a note from 8
(b)(7)(C) phonetic), who was the (b)(7)(C) 9 (b)(7)(C)
ýnd still is, expressing concerns overbc) 10 issuing the (b)(7)(C) without 11 givingl (b)(7)(C) itime to 12 review.
And he said that procedure is not acceptable.
13 And I had talked about that earlier, where 14 there were responsibilities in that procedure assigned 15 to those organizations and they did not agree to it or 16 have adequate time to review it and sign off.
17 So he issued the procedure to meet the 18 commitment date, but neglected to make sure that the 19 quality was there.
20 Then on the (b)(7)(C) we met to go 21 over his (C)
He was silent for most of the meeting.
22 His J?
I (C) heeml 22 His the employee comments, he acknowledges some 23 areas where he needed to step up but most of it was 24 more positive.
25 And I told him that my perception, or my NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
54 1
observation, not perception, of his performance was 2
much different than his.
And we talked about the 3
times that we had discussed situations.
4 He didn't say a whole lot during the 5
meeting.
He did, at the end, say that I was right and 6
he needed al (b)(7)(C) land he would do better.
7 During the conversation of the (b)(7) the I(C) 8 issue of (b)(7)(C)
-ame up and that earlier incident 9
when I was out of the office.
And at that point it 10 was his word againstJ (b)(7)(C)
Iand I agreed to take 11 that portion out of his
()7 which is normal process 12 for me.
13 The way I conduct L (b)(7)(C) 14 C
L
- reviews, is the employee inputs their 15 comments.
I put my comments in.
I don't sign it and 16 send it back to the employee.
I print a copy out.
We 17 discuss it during the meeting and if there's things 18 that would need to be changed, then at that time I 19 would do it.
20 It doesn't mean that the F-)7 is a
21 negotiation, because it really isn't.
But in this 22 particular case it was his work against hers and I 23 agreed to take it out of his (C)
He agreed that that 24 was the right thing to do.
25 And I asked him for the hard copy back NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 55 because I only wanted one official copy.
I signed it in the computer electronically, and then it sends it to the employee.
He had sent me night saying that he wasn't how that was handled and investigation.
an email later on that really comfortable with that he wanted an ECP And I
talked to (b)(7)(C)
(phonetic) in (b)(7)(C)
Iand she said if, you know, this is really an (b)(7)(C)
Iissue and that if J wanted an investigation, then that was his right to contact ECP and request one.
I did not contact ECP over that incident.
As far as I concerned we had talked about it.
We made an agreement.
It was not an issue anymore and it was removed from his
()_
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
Do you want her to keep going?
(b)(7)(C)
Yes, do you want me to --
(b)(7)(C)
No, no.
I have some follow questions.
You could refer to the rest of these notes if you want.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
I The c1ueition I have is, up until the time that you had this NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www nealrgross.com
56 1
discussion, was there any thought about putting ()
2 n a (b)(7)(C) 3 (b)(7)(C)
There was some discussion, 4
after the (C)(7) meeting in with 5
(b)(7)(C)
And I actually, in the package, have a
(
draft of the [
that we were going to give him.
7 As we were working through that process an 8
incident happened where he was being untruthful with 9
me.
And I can tell you about that situation if you'd 10
- like, and at that point the decision was made to 11 terminate his employment.
12 So the P
I'm
- sorry, the P
13 (b)(7)(C)
I was discussed.
It was 14 drafted.
And my intent was to give it to him and then 15 this untruthful incident happened.
16 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Well, tell 17 me about this event that occurred.
18 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
One of his employees, 19 (b)(7)(C)
,as on al (b)(7)(C)
She 20 had some behavior issues and she was being placed on 21 disciplinary suspension.
22 (b)(7)(C) phonetic) was her immediate 23 supervisor.
And I had tol you know, (b)(7)(c) s 24 new in her position, not very new.
She had been there 25 over a
- year, but she had never dealt with any NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
f202) 2,4-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.corn
57 1
disciplinary issue of this magnitude before.
2 And we have a process that we go through 3
with the (
(phonetic) and we have meetings with 4
Employee Relations and the employee discipline 5
procedure, there's a process that you go through.
6 1 wanted to make sure that (b)(7)(C) as okay going through this process.
And I had tol (b)(7)(C) 8 that I wanted him to make sure that everything was 9
taken care as far as the paperwork, prepping her 10 for the meeting, and all that.
11 The day before the meeting, I
wasn't 12 feeling well and I went home sick from work during the 13 day.
Andi (b)(7)(C) aid, you know, I'm really nervous 14 about this meeting.
I don't know what I'm doing.
15 I've never done anything like this before.
And I need 16 some help.
17 And I said, has lalked to you about 18 this.
And she said no, he hasn't talked to me about 19 it.
So I told her, I said, I'll take care of it.
I'd 20 been through several of these before and I was 21 aware of the situation.
I was part of the decision to 22 process the suspension.
So I told her that I would 23 step in.
24
[
as already gone for the day.
So I 25 came in and we were up in L50 andi7)(c) ame in, and we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 58 were in a conference room and we were the first ones to get there.
And I asked him, I said, so isI (b)(7)(C) i1 ready.
Did you get her prepped for this meeting?
And he said yes, we've had several, his hands were kind of going like this, and he said yes, we've had several meetings, she's good to go.
And yes, we're good.
I (b)(7)(C) I And I
- said, okay, so is comfortable.
She knows what she's supposed to be doing.
And these being not, my exact words are in the documentation, and he said yes, we're good to go.
And I said so did you sit down with (b)(7)(C)
ýand go over this information with her, so she'd be ready for the meeting?
And he said, no.
So I had given him three opportunities to tell me the truth and twice he told me that he had gotte4 (b)(7)(C) ready, but he hadn't met with her at all.
I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
What happened after that?
I
(
So what happened after that is the meeting started.
- Well, actually we were interrupted, (b)(7)(C)
Ind= (b)7) alked in, so that was the end of our conversation.
It was inappropriate to continue with them coming in.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 59 I represented the (b)(7)(C)
During the
)
I had to leave because I had a meeting to go to that really7Eýc as supposed to be in. And it had to do with the but he wasn't available.
And so I
left and I
- said, okay you're going to do the disciplinary meeting.
He's a manager.
He'd been a manager here b)and he had more experience than (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) had no experience dealing with this kind of thing.
And I want you to do the meeting.
And he said well, why?
Why do I have to do the meeting?
And I said because you're the manager over this employee andI (b)(7)(C)
Idoesn't have any experience doing this.
So we talked about what the conversation was going to look like in the meeting and I got up and left.
After the meetind (b)(7)(C) told me that as soon as I left the room, n)(Jasically said to I
(D)(7)(C)
Ithat she was doing the meeting.
And lCsaid well, that's not what E aid.
And he says well, I'll do it for you this time but I'm not doing it again, kind of a thing.
(b)(7)(C)
I told me the same thing.
That wasn't following my direction either.
The employee NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 60 was suspended. [(7)asl (b)(7)(C) when the employee was supposed to do the reinstatement meeting.
He was not available during the reinstatement meeting.
He didn't provide any discussion to me, or
(
)
or anyone on how this employee was going to be returned.
I found out about that on Friday.
I came in over the weekend to prepare the paperwork for (b)(7)(C)
I And I really was mentoring her because I wanted her to be successful.
I wanted to protect the company.
And I wanted the meeting to go well.
I didn't sit in on the meeting.
I assigned C)another manager, to sit in with
(
reinstate the employee.
But that was an additional lack of ownership, accountability.
And really, I needed to be able to trust him.
He was my direct report.
He was ultimately over the (b)(7)(C) high confidential area.
And if I could not trust him and he was not being truthful with me, I
couldn't have him working for me anymore.
(b)(7)(C) lWas there ever a
- time, in this time line, when he came to you in your office and told you about efforts on the part of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 61 management to keep employees from going to the ECP or to the NRC with concerns?
(b)(7)(C)
Can you repeat that, I ' m sorry?
I (b)(7)(C)
Was there ever a time, like around this time frame, when he went to you in your office and complained about employees, might've been
(),
but it was under your purview, being told by other managers that they shouldn't go to the ECP or to the NRC, they should go through the chain of command first?
(b)(7)(C)
He did mention that to me and it was (b)(7)(C)
My understanding of what she said was that she wasn't discouraging employees from going to ECP or the NRC, but she was encouraging them to go through the chain of command.
Because if she didn't know about the issues she couldn't resolve them.
That was investigated through the ECP office and ultimately,
)7C[ade some mistakes where she said some things that her intention, in my opinion, wasn't what was said, but the employees took it that way.
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
1:7-(bI((C)
And ultimately I had to take action and remove her from that position.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 result?
incidents mind meant employees.
62 (b)(7)(C)
- Okay, as a
i As a result of several where she said something that was, in her one thing, and was misinterpreted by her (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And is it fair to say that because of communications issues (b)(7)i L2~iwas removed from her position?
(b)(7)(c)
Not communication issues.
It was more, I don't know how to, I'll give you a couple examples.
She told her employees, I would prefer if you go through your chain of command.
And she was trying to encourage her employees to go to her, and and C)lthe supervisor that reported to her, instead of going outside the chain of command.
And some of that, in my opinion, was based on her relationship with She also said in a meeting one time, she was giving an example of a good leader and it was me that she was giving the example of.
And she said, you know, I trust her and I'll, God I'm trying to think on what she said --
(b)(7)(C)
I s that the, I'd kill for her, comment?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.corn
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
She said something like I'd kill for her, but that isn't exactly what she said.
But an employee, and I was in the meeting and I was so, as soon as the meeting was over I said, I know what your intent was, that you respected how I handled a particular situation.
You will follow me, you know, all those things that she had said to me.
But an employee was offended by that and that was just another mistake that she made.
And she would say things that the intent was not there, but it was misinterpreted by others.
I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Do you remember whezclame to you and made this comment about employees, and ECP, and NRC, and going through the chain command?
Do you remember when that occurred?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
I remember it happening but I don't remember the date that it occurred.
(b)(7)(C) okay.
Was it kind of close to his termination?
(b)(7)(C)
I don't recall.
I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
When was the first time you considered terminating him?
(b)(7)(C)
I I had been talking to
)c)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.com
771717.
2 actually ta 3
((
time, a 4
talked to y 5
made a mist 6
7 came to th*
8 9
from Emplol 10 Law Departr 11 the decisi 12 organizati 13 14 you signed 15 16 signed but 17 (b)(7)(
18 19 concurred?
20 21 22 what was t]
23(
24 25 64 throughout this time line, and we had Llked about al (b)(7)(C) around the nd then the second issue, the issue I just ou about.
I recognized early on that I had
- ake in hiring him.
I Okay.
So you s conclusion that he should be terminated?
I (b)(7)(C) -
es, me and I had concurrence yee Relations.
I had concurrence from the nent.
I had the review board.
I made on but I had support from the corporate
)ns involved.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Who above off on it?
(b)(7)(c)
(b)(7)(C) not actually
- agreed, an (b)(7)(C)
(phonetic), our was aware of the situation.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
He (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
I All right.
And he formal reason given for terminatingjC (b)(7)(C)
Unsatisfactory performance.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Do you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com (202) 234-4433
65 1
remember when he was terminated?
Do you have the 2
date?
3 (b)(7)(C)
The meeting was held on 4
(b)(7)(C) and I had already requested the final 5
paycheck.
And I had received it from the corporate 6
office on[
(b)(7)(C) land it had paid him throughout 7
the week.
8 And so his official termination date in 9
the system saysI (b)(7)(C) because the term date is 10 always the day after, but he actually left site on 11 b()C 12 (b)(7)(C)
Did the fact 13 that, you were aware thati (b)(7)(C)
Ias going to go to 14 the ECP and the NRC, is that correct?
15 1I(b)(7)(C)
That is not correct.
I had no 16 knowledge at the time of his termination.
I found out 17 that he went to the NRC when I received the court 18 papers that I was being sued.
i9 I
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
We're 20 almost done.
So when --
21 (b)(7)(C)
I No problem.
22 b7C So when (b)(7)(C) 23 approached you in your office that one time and 24 complained about (b)(7)(C) and what she was advising 25 her employees.
He didn't say anything to the effect, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, DC. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
66 1
that I'm going to the ECP and I'm going to the NRC?
2 (b)(7)(C)
No he did not.
I had no 3
knowledge that he had done either one of those things.
4 He had said he was going to, he wanted an ECP 5
investigation in this situations I had told you about 6
earlier, but he never said to me I'm going to ECP and 7
he never said to me I'm going to the NRC.
8 I(b)(7)(C)
Are you aware of 9
him, subsequently after talking with people, are you 10 aware of him telling other people that he was going to 11 the NRC?
12 (b)(7)(C)
No.
I have no knowledge of 13 that.
14 b()(7)(C)
IOkay.
I'm told 15 that for supervisors in the industry there is a
16 special whistle blower protection training given out 17 for like supervisors and managers.
Have you ever been 18 given any type of training like that?
19 (0)(7)(0)
We go through a
lot of 20 training as supervisors.
There is training on safety 21 conscious work environment.
But that's the only 22 training that I'm aware of.
I've been through 23 training about how to handle employees' concerns and 24 things like that.
25 (b)(7)(C)
ýCounselor, do you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20D05-3701 www.nealrgross.com
67 I
have any follow-up?
2 i(b)(7)(c)
Did (b)(7)(C) ver give you 3
an explanation of why he was unfocused and 4
disorganized at work?
51 (b)(7)(C)
He gave me a couple, he said 6
at one point, you know, it's very different I (b)(7)(C) 7 (b)(7)(C)
And it is different here 8
because we're an ENPO 4 (phonetic) and we're in plant 9
recovery.
10 And the expectations for all employees, 11 especially managers and supervisors, is much greater 12 than when he was here before.
13 He also told me one time when I
was 14 talking to him about oversight for his area.
He said, 15 I'm used to having good people working underneath me 16 and not having to provide this level of oversight.
17 And I reminded him that he has good people 18 underneath him but they need leadership, and they need 19 structure, and that was his responsibility.
He also 20 told me about a personal situation that he was 21 experiencing in his personal life.
22 (b)(7)(C)
Well, let's
- first, when he 23 first came to, you said he was unfocused.
So there 24 was issues about his moving, can you talk about that 25 a little bit?
Why that was impacting work.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
68 1
(b)(7)(C) well initially, yes, moving.
2 He relocated from northern California.
And he was in 3
a condo in Oceanside, I'm not sure where.
And he had 4
a pet, a cat, and he didn't feel settled.
5 He wanted to buy a
house.
He was 6
frustrated that one of the houses that he had put an 7
offer on, someone had put a higher offer in.
8 And so he spent a lot of time trying, he 9
would ask me, can I leave early today?
I need to meet 10 my realtor.
So I was very lenient with him in trying 11 to get him settled.
Because I thought that that would 12 help his performance.
I wanted him to be successful.
13 (b)(7)(C)
I Was he taking more time 14 off than other managers were at that period of time?
15 i
(b)(7)(
He was taking a lot of time 16 off.
When he was moving, he told me that he had 17 contacted staffing and they had told him he could take 18 six days off to move.
19 We were in an outage and he, you know, as 20 a single person, not that that would make it any 21 easier, but he wanted six full days off.
Well, during 22 that time that he was off he called me and left a 23 message on Blackberry that said, I'm just calling to 24 check in.
I'm going to the gym and I'm waiting for 25 the title people to show up.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
69 1
So in my opinion he could've reduced that 2
six days off and got his stuff in the house and got 3
back to help support the outage.
4 He also asked, once he got the house that 5
he had purchased, he was asking to take off frequently 6
whether it was for, there was a problem with the 7
foundation.
He needed to go to L.A. to pick up tile.
8 He needed to meet the plumber.
He had a 9
lot of reasons why he needed to take time off.
And 10 again, I was supportive of that time off even though 11 it had an impact to me and the rest of his work group, 12 because I wanted him to get settled so that he Could 13 focus on the job.
14 But that didn't happen.
He went from one 15 situation to another.
He also, I don't know how much 16 I should say about the personal situation.
17 (b)(7)(C)
- Well, if it impacted the 18 work.
19 (b)(7)(C)
J Okay.
So he came to my office 20 one day and he was upset.
And he said, I need to talk 21 to you about something.
I need your advice.
And he 22 told me (b)(7)(C) 23 24 (b)(7)(C) 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
70 1
2 3
4 S
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (b)(7)(C) happened.
You're going to have to learn to deal with it and that sort of thing.
And so I
was very supportive of him through that process.
I understand that's a
significant event in someone's life.
He later on had tol (b)(7)(C) ho was a (b)(7)(C) lat the time, he's
()
now, that he had discussed a personal situation with me and that I had held it against him and documented it in his 1 (C) II I
nd (b)(7)(C) reported to Tny(C) t the time, (b)(7)(C) he was my peer.
And
)Cent to said, you know,)(C) old me about this.
He's really upset and I
don't think this is appropriate.
So looked at the (C.
And I didn't know about this until after it was over, and he told 7)hat there was nothing in his that referenced this personal situation.
And so that was another, it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
71 1
appeared as though he was trying to undermine me.
And 2
he was not being truthful in the situation that 3
actually occurred.
4 (b)(7)(C)
Did you have discussions 5
with (b)(7)(C) about.
(b)(7)(c) erformance?
6 (b)(7)(C)
Yes I did.
7 (b)(7)(C)
- Okay, and what did you 8
learn from (b)(7)(C) abouf.
(b)(7)(C)
- erformance?
9 (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) had asked J((
10 early on, when he first started, for a report.
I 11 talked about that earlier, where a couple months went 12 by and E C)ame to me and said, I'm looking for this 13 report and told me that he had forgotten about 14 it.
15 Also, [Elas responsible for thec 16 program, thel (b)(7)(C)
ýwhereas, 17 where we takingF (b)(7)(C) 18 (b)(7)( E 19 It's a big responsibility, (b)(7)(C) 20 (b)(7)(C)
An(7)(C) ad asked 21 him for an update and he came to me later on in the 22
- day, and it's documented back here, it happened in 23 (b)(7)(C)
I 24 Where)7)(C)ad said I'm leaving, you know, 25 I'm going on (b)(7)(C)
I.
An(b7C)cEame to me a couple NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
72 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 hours2.893519e-4 days <br />0.00694 hours <br />4.133598e-5 weeks <br />9.5125e-6 months <br /> later and
- said, (C) said he's going on I
(b)(7)(c)
I(b )(c) didn't realize,I (b)(7)(C) at the time, that (b)7) hadn't provided him the (b(7 report that he was expecting.
And so at the end of the day I, and ffc 1
w
- worked, and there was one other person involved, I want to sa phonetic), pulling this report together.
Because (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) was getting a lot of pressure from the outage organization.
Where's this list?
Where's this list?
Andb7)(C) as. not happy with[ b performance either.
I I Okay.
What was your feelings him?
(b)(7)(C)
I was excited to have (b7)(C])
come to work for me.
I had known him when (b)(7)(C)
S (b)(7)(C)
As I mentioned before, I was th4 (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
Iand I did a lot of work with him as far as his position in S (b)(7)(C)
When the decision was made to hire him, he was supposed to start in E7C)
And he had called me and said, you know, I really don't want to leave my NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 boss hanging and could I start in[
S (b)(7)(C) 73 (b)(7)(C)
And even though we were in an (b)(7)(C) and it was having an impact on me, I agreed to do that because I wanted him to start in a good place.
And when we offered the salary to him, he countered, and it was a high salary for his (b)(7)(C) band.
And I went to my1 (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) and I said I really need (b(7 here to help me and will you approve this additional money.
And I had to convince him that that was the right thing to do.
Also[7c countered on his hiring bonus.
We had initially offered him, I think $10,000 and then he had countered $15,000.
And I went to bat again, to get him here because I thought that he was going to do a good job.
I actually hired him to be my successor, because we all know that we can't promote up if we don't have someone to take our place.
And that just made all this stuff more disappointing.
(b)(7)(C)
That's it.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(c) have I or any other NRC representative threatened you in any manner, or offered you any rewards in return for this statement?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
74 1
(b)(7)(C)
No.
2 1(b)(7)(C)
Have you given 3
this statement freely and voluntairily?
4 (b)(7)(C)
I Yes.
5 (b)(7)(C)
Is there any 6
additional information that you care to add for the 7
record?
8 (b)(7)(C)
Can I aslb7)(C)
Talk about it 9
for a second?
10 (b)(7)(C) e can go off the 11 record if you want.
12 (b)(7)(C) okay.
13 (Whereupon, the meeting in the above-14 entitled matter went off the record and went back on 15 the record at 11:55 a.m.)
16 (b)(7)(C) lWe' re back on the N
17 record.
Time is approximately 11:55 a.m.
And there's 18 a couple of items that you wanted to add,I 19 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
Our focus as a site, and 20 especially on a leadership team is, we're eliminating 21 our no consequence environment or raising the bar on 22 performance issues.
23 And so I have been holding my employees 24 accountable.
There were two other employees during 25 that year, 2010, that did not meet expectations and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com o
75 1
that they were terminated.
2 One was terminated for unsatisfactory 3
performance and the other was terminated for 4
misconduct.
And that's expectations of leaders, is to 5
hold our people accountable and to take action, 6
appropriate action when warranted.
7 So I wanted to just bring that to your 8
attention that he is not the only person that I held 9
accountable during that year.
10 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
11 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
The other thing, going 12 back to the F is there were numerous things, each 13 section of that (b)(7)(C) ad areas 14 where he was not meeting expectations.
15 During the course of the discussion with 16 the
)
the (b)(7)(C) comment that we deleted was 17 the only thing that he disagreed with at the time or 18 brought up.
He may've disagreed with it, but I was 19 not aware of it.
That's the only thing that he 20 brought to my attention that he was not happy with.
21 (b)(7)(C) y Okay.
Any 22 further follow-up, Counselor?
23 (b)(7)()
Not from me, thank you.
24 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
All right.
25 What I like to tell my witnesses is if there's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 76 something that comes to mind later on today, for example if you're driving home and something occurs to
- you, and you go I should've brought this up in the meeting.
Feel free to give(7Ca call and we could facilitate the relay of information.
(b)(7)(C) 1O kay.
(b)(7)(C)
] Or I could always come back and talk to you again.
So it depends.
So you have that option, all right?
(b)(7)(C)
Okay, thank you.
(b)(7)(C)
At this time the interview will be concluded.
The time is approximately 11:56 a.m.
(Whereupon, the interview in the above-entitled matter went off the record at 11:56 a.m.)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Interview of I(b)(7)(
)
Docket Number:
4-2011-059 Location:
San Clemente, California were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape (s) provided by the NRC.
(b)(7)(C)
_t jOf ficial" Transc riber*.j al R.
Gross & Co.,
Inc.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com (202) 234-4433