ML12275A476
| ML12275A476 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | San Onofre  |
| Issue date: | 09/28/2012 |
| From: | NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 4-2011-024, FOIA/PA-2012-0185 | |
| Download: ML12275A476 (53) | |
Text
1 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 0
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
+
+ +
+ +
OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS INTERVIEW
x IN THE MATTER OF:
INTERVIEW OF f(b)(7)(C).
- 01 Case No.
- 4-2011-024 (CLOSED) x Wednesday, September 28, 2011 San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station near San Clemente, California The above-entitled interview was conducted at 3:41 p.m.
BEFORE:
[Senior Special Agent I(b)(7)(C)
[Special Agent I I
LI NOTE:
AS NO SPELLINGS OF TERMS/NAMES WERE PROVIDED, BEST GUESSES WERE USED.
Aa.[ **0
.]
e, NEAL R. GROSS PG F*3
-,,}S
'b
-'REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealgross.com i i
.1
V
-1C, 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2
APPEARANCES:
On Behalf of the Interviewee, Other Individuals Involved in the Investigation and Southern California Edison Company:
(b)(7)(C)
I (b)(7)(C) of:
Law Department Southern California Edison Company (SCE) 2244 Walnut Grove Avenue Rosemead, California 91770 (626) 302-1212 FAX -4393 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.corm (202) 234
3 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 3:41 p.m.
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT
[
j For the record, this is an interview ofJ(b)(7)(c) who is employed by Southern California Edison.
The time now is approximately 3:41 p.m. on September 29, 2011.
This interview is being conducted at San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station (SONGS).
(b)(7)(C) my name is
[)))I'm a Jenior Special Agent with the Office of Investigations out of Region IV.
Also present is
[Special Agent I b)7ZIZZ also from Region IV. And (b)(7)(C) is here, acting as your attorney today.
Okay.
This interview is being recorded and a transcript will be produced from this recording.
So I need to ask, do you have any recording devices on you?
me.
I(b)(7)(C)
I No, I have nothing on (b)(7)(C)
DSR. SPEC. AGENT
((b)(7)(C)
No.
[SR. SPEC. AGENT 1Okay.
And the purpose of the interview is to discuss allegations of retaliation raised to the NRC byI(b)(7)(C)
Could you raise your right hand, please sir?
Do you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
-10 1
2 3
4 S
6 7
8 9
20 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4
swear the information you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
(b)(7)(C) swear.
[SR. SPEC. AGENT l~)7()Okay.
~
1 (b)(7)(C) does the San Onofre or Southern California Edison require you to have an attorney present during this interview?
(b)(7)(C)
No, they don't require it.
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT
[(3)IS ffij Iacting as your attorney today?
!(b)(7)(C)
She is.
SR. SPEC. AGENT (b)(F)(c)
Did you select her, or was she provided by the company?
I I selected her.
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT 1(b)(7)(c)
Okay.
Were you threatened in any manner with any adverse action if you did not request an attorney for this interview?
(b)(7)(C)
INone, whatsoever.
L R. SPEC. AGENT (
Okay.
And do you understand that you have the right to a private interview with me, without an attorney present?
(b)(7)(C)
ISure.
()7 LPR.
SPEC. AGENTb(c Okay.
And(C NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
C-1
[
j could you please identify yourself for the 2
record?
3
- -(7)()
i es.
(b)(7)(C) 3 Yes.
4
[b(7)c) rwith the 5
Southern California Edison Company, law department.
6 SR. SPEC. AGENTIZ(b)(7)(c)
Okay.
And are 7
you representing Itoday?
(C)(7)(c) 8
[
I am.
9 DSR.
SPEC AGENT Ib)7)(C)
And do you 10 represent other people as well as Southern California 11 Edison in this investigation?
I(b)(7)(cC) 12
- Yes, I do.
()()
Okay. Do you 14 believe there's a potential conflict on interest that 15 may arise during this interview?
15 I have no reason to.
17
[SR. SPEC. AGENTL 7)(C)
And what would 18 happen in one does arise?
19 If one were to arise, I 20 would informr )(7)(C) that I would not be able 21 to continue representing him, but I would continue 22 representing SCE and other parties to this matter; 23 that he would have the choice to continue this 24 interview, to terminate it, or to ask for a
25 postponement and seek a representative of his own NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, DC. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
ic-6 choosing.
2 (b(7)C)
()c7 2[SR.
SPEC. AGENT J Okay. Arid[(C) 3 (Ido you understand that
[7(
4 represents other people in this investigation, as well 5
as Southern California Edison?
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (b)(7)(C)
- Yes, I do.
9R. SPEC. AGENTZ)(7)(¢)
I And, with that knowledge, do you still want her here for this interview?
(b)(7)(C)
I I Yes, I do.
[SR. SPEC. AGEN Okay.
Can you go over your background, sir, your employment history here at SONGS?
(b)(7)(C) b)(7)(C)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.com
"fc.
1c~.
7 (b)(7)(C) 1 2
3
[R. SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C) okay.
4 I~b)(7)(C) 4 (b)(7)(C) 6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neahrgross.com
(~)(
l~c;)8 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 22 23 (b)(7)(C) 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
7c~
9 (b)(7)(C) 2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
ý Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
So that's what I'm 12 doing, presently.
13
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT And, again, 14 you're official title here is?
15 1 (b)(7)(C) 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (b)(7)(C)
[R.
SPEC. AGENbII)c)
Okay.
Okay.
I(b)(7)(c)
I did you or do you know aI(b.)7)(C)cI or r(7)(c)
(b)(7)(C)
- Yes, I know him.
[SR. SPEC. AEJAnd how do you know 7
Ab)(7)(C)
I)
I Well, he was under my employment in the (b)(7)(C)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234..4433 www.nealrgross.com
-k 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 10
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(
Okay.
How J(b)(7)(C) long did you supervise 1(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT I(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And what type of employee do you consider [ b)(7)()
Io be?
(b)(7)(C)
I(C IHe -- you know, he is a
sharp individual.
He he knows the (D)(7)(C)
[(b)(7)(C)
Imostly.
His experience is just limited in that area.
He he does have some of theI (b)(7)(C) that deal with the I(b)(7)(C) or thea J(b)(7)(C)
But he is not a subject matter expert on those.
He's just the Ib)(7)(C)
So we rely on subject matter experts for all the information for (b)(7)(C) most of the even the (b)(7)(c)
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(c)
Okay.
Would you consider him to be a dependable employee?
(b)(7)(C)
[(b(7)C) yes.
ESR.
SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
I (b)(7)(C) didJ [)(7)(c) 1ever raise any safety concerns to you while you supervised him?
[(b)(7)(C)
He never raised one NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
-k, ii 1
once.
2
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTI(b)7)()
Okay.
Did he 3
raise an issue to you or a concern to you about 4
placing an unqualified or non-supervisory employee in 5
charge in your absence?
6 (b)(7)(C)
He he didn't raise it 7
as an unqualified supervisor.
He just said he didn't 8
take orders from aI(b)7)(C) 9
[SR. SPEC. AGENT[ 11(7)(C)
Okay.
Explain 10 to me what happened whenever you put and we're 11 talking about (b)(7)(C) in this case 12
()Okay.
Yes.
13
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C) when you 14 put her in charge in your absence and i)(7)(C) 0 aised 15 his concern to you about it
-- or he raised that-issue 16 with you.
Explain to me what happened during the 17 period of your interaction with him about that.
(b)(7)(C) 18 1
Okay.
First, let me 19 just say I went into )(7)(c)
Jto see of he would 20 handle all the (b)(7)(C) prior to.
Then I 21 went to and asked her if she'd handle my every 22 day duties.
23
[R. SPEC.
AGENT[(b)7c)
Okay.
24 (b)(7)(C)
And she said am I going 25 to be telling people what to do?
And I said no, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
fn* 9:'*.-44.33 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
Ic.
12 1
you're not.
You're just going to be handling duties.
2 If things come up, you're going to handle them and I(b)(7)(C)l 3
you're going to g6 to for support.
So then I 4
went around to every I(b)(7)(C)
Iand told them
.that (b)(7)(C) would handle all your (7)(C) 6 (b)(7)(C) and that
)C) would handle my everyday 7
duties.
And if any issues came up, take them tI(b)(7)(c) 8 and she will then go get support on how to handle 9
them.
10
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT 1 Okay.
11 (b)(7)(C)
I I
transferred duties 12 every time I left, to different people.
So it was 13 just her turn in the barrel.
14
[SR.
SPEC. AGENT)7)
Okay.
15 (b)(7)(C)
Okay?
So, when I went 16 to C )(7)(C)
I said tob7)(c) the same thing I had 17 said to everybody else.
I said, I'm going to 18 be gone next week to the every work planner's user 19 group for a week, on company business.
And, while I'm 20 gone,Z(b)(7)(C) 1will handle all I(b)(7)(C)
Iand 21 will be in charge of my everyday duties."
And 22 he looked at me and he said, "I don't take direction 23 from a (b)(7)(C)"
He raised his voice and 24 everything.
I said, I said, "She's going to 25 handle my everyday duties.
She's not going to give NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
'C.
13 1
you direction.
She's going --
you --
you have your 2
own [
You know what work you have to 3
do.
She's not going to give you direction."
And he 4
says, "I don't take direction from aI (b(7)(C) 5 1 said, c
you take direction if I leave 6
anybody in charge.
You take direction from that 7
person."
And he's going, "I'm going to tell you 8
again, I don't take direction from a 9
- And, at that time, I said, "Well there's no 10 need to discuss any further.
This is how it's going 11 to be.
She's going to take care of my duties andLIc 2 )7)(7 ill)take care of any I)(7(C) 1OU have for 12 1
Lu a
f 13 review."
14 PR. SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
15 I And then I went around 16 to the next person.
I didn't want to get into a 17 confrontation.
I don't I
don't I'm not a.
18 confrontational kind of person.
So, you know, I
he 19 raised his voice and he made it very clear.
Everybody 20 in the building heard it.
And, you know, what are you 21 going to say to an employee at that point?
You're 22 going to just go on to the next one.
You're going to 23 make sure they understood clearly that they're going 24 to be under the direction of whoever I
leave in 25 charge.
And I --
I said that, and I left.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 2D005-3701 www.nealrrgross.com
-7c 14 1
[SR. SPEC. AGENTIb(
Did any other 2
employee, other thanzc raise any issues with 3
her being in charge?
(b)(7)(()
4 Not a one.
5
[R. SPEC.
AGENT[
Okay.
When 6
you're gone for a period of time, and you select a 7
fill-in, is there some process you go through?
Or how 8
do you normally select someone to replace you?
I[b)(7)(C)I 9
You know, when --
when 10 1 was inI(b)(7)(C)
I was taught that when 11 when you leave to go somewhere, you pass it around 12 so that everybody gets a chance to see what the 13 supervisor has to go through.
14 SR.
SPEC.
AGENT [1b)(7)(C)
Yes?
15 (b)(7)(C)
So I used that same 16 selection process.
I was giving everybody an 17 opportunity.
The only people I probably would never 18 have considered was the two new ones we had just hired 19 into the group.
And that's just because they were not 20 fresh enough.
But a year later, now, I probably would 21 have because they picked up real fast and were very 22 sharp individuals.
23
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTIc(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
From 24 your position as supervisor, were you aware or are 25 there any qualifications or specialties needed to fill NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.com
15 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in for you while you're gone?
(b)(7)(C)
There are no qualification requirements.
@R. SPEC.
AGENT r)(7)(C)
Okay.
So putting someone in charge when you leave, in your place, is your prerogative?
(b)(7)(C)
That's my prerogative.
FR.
SPEC.
AGENT t b)(7)(C)
I Okay.
So there's no requirement, that you're aware of, no Southern California Edison or no SONGS requirements saying that you have to meet a certain threshold to be a supervisor in your place?
I(b)(7)(C)
You have to meet the ANCI requirement, which is two years of experience and a high school diploma.
[SR.
SPEC. AGENT 1(b)(7)(c)
Okay.
And I'm (b)(7)(
C) assuming I it those two criteria?
b)7 1She'd been in the group (b)()(C)fo robaly group-)
for -- she's been doing for probably F) with the --
with the
)(C) lat time, she'd been in there about two years.
But she'd been doing work in (b)(7)(c) for many years.
[SR. SPEC. AGENTE()
Okay.
(b)(7(C)
IAnd she f it the ANCI requirement.
Her job position fit the ANCI NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
16
-1c, 1
requirement.
2 R. SPEC. AGENTJcc Okay.
Did_ýFb)(Z 3
(vb)(7)(c) ver request or did you ever put him in charge 4
at any point when you were gone?
I(b)(7)(c) 5
[
He was put in charge the 6
previous time I I left.
7
[SR.
SPEC, AGENT I()7C Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 8 It was a couple days.
9 But he was put in charge a couple days.
10
[SR. SPEC.
AGENTZ()(7)(c)
Okay.
Did he 11 mention anything to you when you returned from leave, 12 about the job ad did, or any problems he 13 experienced while you were gone, afterwards?
14 (b)(7XC)
No.
I asked everybody 15 in the group if there was any issues that came up 16 while I was gone.
And everybody said no, everything 17 went smooth.
18 FR.
SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(c)
I Okay.
And 19 when was the first time you were aware that he had 20 filed a
notification and I'm referriing to (b)(7)(C) 21 Notification[i-regarding that issue?
22 It was when I came back 23 from the pre-work planners user group, which would 24 have been -- that was the week of the 12th, I think it 25 was.
And so it would have been around the 19th.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
- 1tc, 17 How 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ER. SPEC.
AGENT Qyb)(7)(C)
Okay.
were you made aware of this issue?
I(b)(7)(C) ave it tO me to see.
[PECIAL AGENT c
Okay.
I just want to verify that's the one we're talking about.
The number is shown in red, also.
(b)(7,)(C)
I Yes.
That's the one.
ýR. SPEC. AGENTI (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Did you talk to (b)(7)(C) about this notification?
J(b)(7)(C)
No, I did not.
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
Were there any other conversations you had, immediate to this, with (b)(7)(c) lbout his displeasure with you putting I(b)(7)(C)
-in charge?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
I had no further discussions.
ISR.
SPEC.
AGENTr7)(c)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
I knew r(b7)(C) 7had.
And that was, I felt, sufficient enough.
PR. SPEC.
AGENT I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Okay.
This happened back in July of 2010?
I That's right.
- R.
SPEC. AGENTI (b)(7Gc)
Okay.
Let me look at it, just a minute.
[Jas suspended NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealraross.com
-1~c.
18 1
back in September of 2010 for one week?
(b)(7)(C) 2 That's correct.
3
[SR.
SPEC. AGENTI (b)7)c)
I Okay.
What 4
was your role in that suspension?
What did you do to 5
facilitate that?
(b)(7)(C) 6 1
- Well, I had to do all 7
the fact-finding, gathering all the facts of all the 8
misconduct from prior to my being there in the 9
position. I had to go read his personnel file.
10 VR. SPEC. AGENTII Yes?
11 f
fii I had to write the SQRB 12 (phonetic) fact-findings and, you know, develop, with 13 HR --
I --
I spent quite a bit of time with 7)(c) 14 (b)(7)(C) on it.
And -- because it was the first time 15 I'd ever had to do anything like that.
So I wanted to 16 make sure I had all my ducks in a row and -- and knew 17 what I was supposed to do.
18 PR.
SPEC.
AGENT I(b)(C)
What 19 precipitated the suspension?
Why was he being 20 suspended?
(b)(7)(C) 21
- Well, there was a
22 multitude of things.
When -- when I first got in the 23
- group, I wasn't there two weeks and there was an 24 outbreak between him and another employee during a 25 group meeting.
And, after that particular outbreak, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
-in.
19 1
I went to him and said, "You know, bc you --
2 you've got good ideas, but you just have a heck of a 3
way of trying to put them across.
You don't show 4
people respect at all with your demeanor with the way 5
you come across.
And, you know, if you want to get 6
your ideas across, you might want to think of a new 7
tack."
8
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT [b)(7)(c)
Yes.
[(b)(7)(C) 9 And so that happened in 10 late March or early April time frame.
I can't 11 remember the exact date of that group meeting.
12 SR. SPEC.
AGENTp1b(7)(c)
So that --
(b)(7)(C) 13 But I know the two 14 individuals.
It was Iand 15 (phonetic).
16 ER. SPEC.
AGENT (c
So that was 17 late March or early June?
(b)(7)(C) 18 No, late March early 19 April.
20
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT Ib)(7)(c)
Oh, April.
rb)(7)(C) 21 Some time there in 2010.
22
[R. SPEC.
AGENT[)(7)(c) 2010?
Okay.
23 All right.
(b)(7)(C) 24 So that was -- you know, 25 that was one of the things.
And then, at different NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W, (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com w w
20 1
times during meetings, he got into it one morning with 2
one of the Ops procedure writers about 5059 and that 3
he wasn't qualified for 5059.
And the the 4
individual from the ops group was trying to explain, 5
you know, you don't have to be qualified 5059, you 6
just have to know if the procedure has to have 5059.
7 LSR. SPEC.
AENT IYes?
8 (b)(7)(C)
- And, if so, then you 9
need to answer the
- question, so that we get 10 engineering involved.
Because we don't make the 5059 11 evaluation.
Engineering does.
So they got into a 12 confrontation.
And, afterwards, the individual came 13 to me and said, "You know, I just can't put the points 14 across to this guy, the way he comes at me.
He just 15
-- his demeanor is just, you know, it's one of those 16 kind of things that I just don't like dealing with."
17 And I said, "Well, I'll talk to him."
And, you know, (b7)(C) 18 again, I went back to him and said, [J kou know, 19 you need to change your approach."
And it wasn't the 20 first time.
And so --
so then, soon after that was 21 when I was going to the ap-pre-w-pug (phonetic) and -
22 and he had the comments about c
about(b)(7)(c) 23 1 don't work for al(b)(7)(C)
You know?
So 24 that was just another thing that added to it.
- And, I
25
-guess, for me, the real icing on the cake was that, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 200D5-3701 www neairgross.com
21 1
when I was doing his mid-year PDP one-on-one, and he 2
said to me I don't see you as a qualified supervisor, 3
so I don't send myJt(b)(7)C)
Jto me, it was kind of, 4
in my opinion, an insubordinate situation.
You know?
5 I'm his supervisor.
He should have been sending them 6
to me.
And I had no idea he wasn't.
But I just --
7 every time I
asked him if he was working on 8
(b)(7)(¢)
I because I hadn't seen any, he'd say to me, 9
"Yes, I'm working on them."
And then I'd say, "Well, 10 I haven't seen any."
And he'd say, "Well, I'm getting 11 to them."
And so, you know, I was giving him the --
12 theI(b)7)(C)
They --
they 13 take a lot of detail and a lot of time.
So I was 14 giving him that benefit of the doubt that, you know, 15 he was working on his b)(7)(C) nd not pushing for 16 him to get them to me.
You know?
But, when I said 17 something to him during the PDP, that his numbers were 18 kind of low, he said, "Well, I don't send the all to 19 you.r" "Well, what do you mean, you don't send them 20 to me.
Who do you send them to?"
And he said, "Well, 21 I send them all tol b)()(C)
And I said, "How are 22 you don't that?
[1Jo ut on [J 23 And he goes, "Well, I haven't done any lately."
And 24 so I said, "Well, you know, from now on, you need to 25 send allI(b)(7)(C) jto me."
And[had a hard time NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
-1!c.
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 i0 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 22 with --
you know, part of our recovery efforts that we had going on with written instruction was trying to get rid of written error traps.
And he had a hard time with me telling him that theIb)(7)(c) 7 didn't have the as-directeds taken out or the as-needed or --
or contact supervisor.
He he didn't clarify those statements.
And he had a hard time with that.
He didn't want to have -- want to go down that path.
And so he he wasn't sending his I(b)(7)(c) to me to review because I would send them back when I found those things.
And so, at that point, when I found out during the mid-year PEP that the reason he wasn't was because he didn't see me as a qualified supervisor, I said, at that point, you need to send them all to me.
I more or less demanded it, at that point.
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
- And, based on --
I guess you initiated the action for the suspension.
Is that correct?
(b)(7)(C)
I No, I did not.
ER. SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(C)
Who initiated that action?
(b)(7)(C)
I That was initiated from the I(b)(7)(C)
I tR. SPEC. AGENT(
7
]Well, I mean -
[(b)(7)(C)
I i d 7c11 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www.neairgross.com
-7 C-1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 23
ýR.
SPEC.
AGENT Let me rephrase the question.
Somebody had to notifyc I
jof what was going on withI(b)(7)(C)
(7)(C)
I Well, I documented --
I (b)(7)(C) documented every time either had any kind of outbreak, whatsoever.
ýR. SPEC. AGENT (b(7)(C)
Yes.
7)C)
[b(C Or if I ever had one-on-ones.
I documented everything.
And that documentation was going to supervision to the manager.
And I'm sure he was sharing it with the (b)(7)(C)
And the decision was made,. soon after, that we needed to go down the disciplinary process.
ER. SPEC. AGENTI (b)(c)
Okay.
And the manager you were sharing that with wasI(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
I
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT 7
Okay.
rb)(7)(c)
I Yes.
My direct--
that was a direct report to him.
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT fb)(f)(c)
And who directed you --
you may have answered this
- already, but who directed you to begin the process of gathering information for his suspension or disciplinary action?
I(b)(7)(C)
And and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www.nealrgross.com
gA 24 1c.
1 then, from there, I went to (b)(7)(C) 2 PR.
SPEC.
AGENT I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
So, 3
when you were gathering this information, you 4
immediately asked for help from HR?
5
-Well, yes.
Because I'd 6
already been working with HR, when I developed his 7
mid-year PDP.
And
- then, when I
developed his 8
performance improvement plan, that was already in the 9
works, prior to his suspension.
And I'd been --
I'd 10 probably spent anywhere between eight and 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> 11 with HR, over the course of a two-month period there, (b)(7)(c) 12 related to And it was mainly related to 13 the PDP process.
14 PR. SPEC. AGENT)(¢ So the PDP for 15 2010, you actually wrote this, correct?
16 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
The mid-year and 17 the year-end.
18
ýR. SPEC. AGENTf7c Okay.
And he 19 had I
think I
counted eight or nine need 20 improvements?
J(b)(7)(C) 21
[
J Needs improvements.
And 22 they were all in the area of behaviors.
They were not 23 in performance.
24 VR SPEC. AGENTE17
- Okay.
()(7)(C) 25 You know, I
like I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
25 1
said, I saw his performance.
He -- his knowledge base 2
was there.
He I(b)(7)(C) it was just in 3
his behavioral aspects.
4
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT N
Okay.
5(
(7)(C)
And his behaviors just 6
weren't they weren't reflective of a
nuclear 7
professional.
He he didn't show respect for 8
people.
And he was very demeaning at many times 9
during meetings-, to people.
And the -- that's where 10 those NIs came from.
And he had plenty of warnings 11 that -- that, you know, through me going to his desk 12 and saying, "Hey you know, you're -- the way 13 you handle yourself in meeting, if you'd find a new 14
- approach, you might be able to get your points 15 across."
I mean, it wasn't one time.
It was many 16 time.
17
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(C).
And, at what 18 point was the PIP instituted?
19(b)(7)(C)
The PIP --
the PIP was 20 instituted when he came back.
We gave him his PIP and 21 his reinstatement the same day.
22
- R. SPEC. AGENT When he came 23 back from his suspension?
(b)(7)(C) 24 From his week off.
Yes.
25 SR. SPEC.
AGENTIE(b)(7)(C)
So, prior to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
26 1
his 2010 PDP, his mid-year, was anything done at the 2
mid-year point?
!(b)(7)(C) 3
- 1Well, the mid-year --
4 you know, our process is kind of slow.
It's not 5
really mid-year.
The way the process works is the 6
employee gets first shot on making comments on their 7
progress.
Then it comes to the supervisor to score 8
and make comments.
And then it goes to a calibration 9
meeting by the people higher than me.
And then it 10 from there, then it comes back for us to put our final 11 signature on it.
And then it goes to the employee.
12 That whole process took, I think --
I think June of --
13 June 29th is when they had to have their comments in.
14 SR. SPEC. AGENTIc()(7)(C)
You're talking 15 about the employees?
(b)(7)(C) 16 The employees.
17
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT ICb)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 18 1 And then, soon after 19 that, the supervisors had until I think it was July 20 20th, to get all their comments completed.
And then 21 they go through the calibration, which was into --
22 sometime into August.
I don't remember the exact 23 dates now.
And then it comes back, at that point.
24 And I think the final thing was issued on August 29, 25 if I remember correctly, somewhere in there.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
-7c, 27 1
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTI(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
2 (b)(7)(C)
I So it's not really --
3 really mid-year like you would think.
4 LR. SPEC. AGENT So, prior to, 5
I guess, June, wheni (b)(7)(C) was writing his comments 6
his comment portion of the PDP, were there any 7
talks with him, prior to that, about his performance?
8 Not his performance, but his behavior?
9 (b)(7)(C)
Sure.
Like I said, I 10 had gone to him 11 VR. SPEC.
AGENT (D)(7)(C)
- Well, yes.
12 But I mean official conversations, documented?
13 (b)(7)(C)
No.
14
ýR. SPEC. AGENTI b()C)
No?
Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 15 No.
Not at that time.
16 SR.
SPEC.
AGENT (
Okay.
Is 17 there a system in
- place, other then the PIP, to 18 discuss that with individuals?
19 (b)(7)(C)
There is today.
There 20 wasn't really then.
Today we do what what they 21 call bi-monthly one-on-ones.
That got instituted late 22 in the end of the year, last year.
And supervisors 23 are expected to do that every other month now.
My 24 supervisor I have now does it monthly.
So 25
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C)
So if anything NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
28 1
is not up to par, back in 2010, when this took place, 2
he gets the mid-year.
And, actually, it's signed by 3
you, like you said, August 30 on this.
So he only has 4
from the end of August to the end of the year to make 5
his improvement?.
(b)(7)(C) 6 1
He-- he was given a 7
three-month period to show improvement.
And that, you 8
- know, that pretty much was the way [j said we 9
should manage this; give him three months to change 10 his improvement.
ii iR. SPEC. AGENTIcc Okay.
And he 12 was suspended back in September?
J(b)(7)(C)I 13 1
He was --
September.
14 And he was given the PIP when he reinstated.
And what 15 was that?
September 29th, I think it was, or 27th?
16
ýR. SPEC.
AGENTE(b)(7)(c)
Yes.
Well, he 17 was suspended from the 20th to the 24th.
I'm not sure 18 when he came back to work.
19 (b)(7)(C)
So he came back on the 20 Monday following.
So that would have been the 28th or 21 29th, I think.
22 iR. SPEC. AGENTZ (b)(o)(c 1
Okay.
23 And that's when he was 24 given his performance improvement plan.
25 SPEC.
AGENT b)(7)(c)Okay.
- Now, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 29 when he was suspended, obviously, you were there for the suspension meeting?
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
bR. SPEC. AGENT (b)(7)(c) what was told to him?
Why was he suspended?
I7)
He was suspended because he was found to be in violation of policy 301, and not acting with integrity and forthfulness and, in cases of insubordination with supervision, and for derogatory comments that he made to another employee about another employee.
j*R.
SPEC.
AGENT (b) 7)(C)
Okay.
And Policy 301, do we have a copy of that?
Do you know if we have a copy of Policy 301?
rn 7
)()'
The professional conduct policy?
I believe we do.
I believe I gave it to you.
R. SPEC.
AGENT Yes.
That's the one.
(b)(7)(C)
I The Edison policy --
Policy 301.
IR.
SPEC.
AGENT 1(b)(7)(c)
Professional Conduct Policy?
I(b)(7)(C)
Company Okay.
Yes.
EI. SPEC.
AGENTI(D)(7)(c)
Okay.
Okay.
And I know, in talking to other individuals, there NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
30 1
were generalities given toward when you met with him.
2 But do you have anything documented of specific 3
incidents that you used to suspend him with?
I(7)(C)CC 4
Well, yes.
There was a 5
fact-finding sheet.
6
[SR.
SPEC. AGENTI')(7)c)
Okay.
You're 7
talking about this right here?
8 Where it was spelled 9
out.
Yes.
Yes.
10 ER. SPEC. AGENT7))
All right.
11 And you conducted all the work up for this fact-12 finding sheet here?
13
(
Yes.
I did the work.
14 That's right.
15 V
SPEC.
AGENT(b)(7)(C)
And says 16 here, interviews were conducted with employees.
Is 17 that correct.
18 (bh7C)
Yes.
- Well, when I got 19 to that section -- this was a brand new procedure for 20 us.
It had only been out less than a month.
I called 21 the owner of the procedure and said I'm kind of not 22 sure what I'm supposed to be answering here.
And he 23
- said, "Well you had the direct-contact.
So, 24 essentially, you're saying
- that, through direct 25 contact, you had interviews with the employees."
So NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
-7 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 31 that's why I answered yes to that.
(R. SPEC. AGENT rn Okay. But j
was not directly interviewed regarding this matter?
())(C)
- 7)
We had the one-on-one with --
when I gave him the directions thatIb would be in charge.
ER. SPEC.
AGENTI(b)(C)
No.
What I'm saying is he was not interviewed.
You didn't tell him that, you know, we're conducted an inquiry into your behavior and I'm interviewing you because of that?
Yes.
So the --
the --
the owner of the procedure, rb7)(C) 1(phonetic),
who I discussed that with, he he told me that that's not what that's talking to.
That's talking to did the person know of the behaviors.
[SR. SPEC. AGENTII Okay. Well, you said you spent a lot of time with HR during this process?
[b)(7T) 1 Right.
And this was --
like I said, this was a brand new procedure at that time.
SPECIAL AGENTi And we spoke with HR and the individual we spoke with said that, you know, when this interview is conducted with the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.com
-7 32 1
especially with the affected individual, they are to 2
know that this is what they mean by this is an 3
interview; that it is to be done and that he knows why 4
it's being done; not just in a general conversation 5
about your performance.
6 (b)(7)(C)
- Well, that may be the 7
way it is intended today.
But it wasn't at that first 8
writing of that procedure.
The procedure's been 9
changed since then.
10
[SPECIAL AGENT But what I'm saying 11 is, when we spoke with HR, she was up front with us 12 that she had worked with you in this, a great deal and 13 that, at the time she worked with you, this was the 14 policy; that it was supposed to be in
- effect, a
15 conversation with the affected individual.
And it was 16 noted to the individual that that's why they were 17 being talked to.
18 JR. SPEC.
AGENT
- Because, we 19 spoke withI(b)(7)(C)
Iand he claims he was never 20 interviewed regarding --
(b)(7)(C) 21 He was not interviewed 22 regarding the suspension, because I was told he didn't 23 need to be; that it was all about the facts.
24
[SPECIAL AGENTZ7 Okay.
Well, there's 25 an obvious disconnect between what HR told us and what NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
-16.
33 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you're telling us about the same investigation.
(b)(7)(C)
I(
I Yes.
I'm going by what the procedure owner told me.
[R. SPEC. AGENT II And who is the procedure owner?
(b)(7)(C)
Ib was the procedure owner at the time.
ER. SPEC.
AGENT
[
J Okay.
LPECIAL AGENTZ And what division is he in?
(b)(7)(C)
He is in the (b)(7)(C)
[PECIAL AGEN TIII Okay what is his last name?
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) 1b)(7)(C)
Right.
[R. SPEC.
AGENT 1(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Okay.
And the other individuals that you interviewed, was this also in the same type of context?
I(b)(7)(C)
Same --
yes.
It was the same context.
ISR.
SPEC.
AGENTII(b)(7)(c)
Okay.
()(7)(C)
(
I He
__ he mentioned NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
34 1
mentioned to me that, sincel jhad a one-2 on-one with over the issue, that that was the 3
fact finding for that particular incident.
01 1(b)(7)(c) 4 fSR.
SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
I(b)(7)(C)I 5
[(j So I was answering this 6
form for everybody.
7
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT So, in 8
essence, whenever you answered this form, you said, in 9
my previous conversations wit and everyone 10 else associated with this form, that was good enough 11 for the fact-finding mission?
(b)(7)(C) 12 That was correct.
13
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTm1(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And HR 14 is saying that's not what the issue is supposed to be.
15 But you're saying that's not what you were told back 16 then?
(b)(7)(C) 17 Well, I think you are not (b()(C) 18
-- you are miss-quoting what L said.
She 19 said someone needs to talk to the employee.
An (b)(7)(C) 20 l
testified that he talked to the employee.
21
- PECIAL AGENT X Well, also, I want to 22 know he signed for the fact that this guy was 23 talked to.
(b)(7)(C) 24 Right.
)()(C) 25 (bF(7 And not necessarily that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W, (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
35 1
he, personally, talked to him.
2
[SPECIAL AGENTf_
j Well, regardless()
3 "F(b)(7)(C)--*as not aware he was being interviewed for a 4
suspension, is what I'm trying to say, regardless of 5
who talked to him.
b)7)(C) 6
[
That part, I guess it's 7
subject to interpretation.
- The, you know, procedure 8
said had the employee been talked to.
And the fact I(b)(7)(c) 9 that h
had talked to him, I was told that, 10 yes, you had a fact-finding with him.
LSR. SPEC.
AGEN.T[
-[7J Okay.
I(b)(7)(C) 12 1
C As of then, he wasn't 13 being --
he wasn't being put on suspension for just 14 that issue.
There was more issues than that, that put 15 him on suspension.
It was the multitude of 16 everything.
17 SR. SPEC.
AGENT.1 T)(C)
I understand 18 that.
Yes.
(b)(7)(C) 19 Yes.
Okay.
20
[SR. SPEC. AGEN But again, I'm 21 just trying to nail down what this actual interview 22 prior to his suspension was for --
what it consisted 23 of, which is in this report.
(b)(7)(C) e 24 Yes.
25
[SPECIAL AGENT II Okay.
And this was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgro.ss.com
IC-1 36 1
over more than one conversation withZ) it 2
wasn't a one-time sit-down with him?
(b)(7)(C) 3
()I I Right.
4
[SPECIAL AGENT m
Okay.
And that's 5
what I'm trying to --
(b)(7)(C)
I 6
No.
It was not a one-7 time sit-down.
8
[PECIAL AGENT Okay.
All right.
9
[SPECIAL AGENT And, were there any 10 other performance issues mentioned during his --
I 11 know, this is what the fact-finding summary was --
(b(7(C) 12
- but, when you spoke with during the 13 interview -- or during the meeting of his suspension, 14 was there any type of performance issues mentioned?
(b))77)())
15 1
1No.
16 PECIAL AGENT Okay.
So it was just 17 a violation of Policy 301?
I(b)(7)(C) 18 It was a violation of 19 301, pretty much spelled out what the policy said.
20 PECIAL AGENT Okay.
I(b)(7)(C) 21 1
And and then the 22 derogatory comments made regarding another employee.
23 EPECIAL AGENT Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 24 No discussion as to what 25 those were.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE,, N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 wwwnealrgross.com v
-7c 37 1
LPECIAL AGENT b Did) ave 2
any questions for you when he was suspended?
(b)(7)(C) 3 None.
The only --
the 4
only comment he made throughout the whole process was 5
he turned to the (b)(7)(C) at the time, (b)(7)(C) 6 and pointed at him and said, "You and I 7
need to talk when I come back."
And, at that time --
8 he raised his voice like he would to most.
Anr(d7I 9
said, "Well, I'll be there when (7
omes back."
10
[SPECIAL AGENT okay.
11 (b(7JC Or when J meets you 12 when you come back.
13 LR.
SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C)
So when you 14 did his 2010 appraisa1, b7C did 15 have any input to that appraisal?
I(b)(7)(C) 16 None, whatsoever.
17
ýR. SPEC. AGE~f)m)C Okay.
Did he 18 just review it?
(b)(7)(C) 19
[
He -- he reviewed it in 20 the calibration meeting with the other managers and 21 the Director.
22 SR.
SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 23 And I don't know what 24 transpired there, because they don't tell you.
25 LR. SPEC. AGENT[
J Okay.
Is(C)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 38 b(Cthe only person to be suspended from that group since you were a supervisor?
(b)(7)(C)
There was another individual that was about to be, but he went out on (b)(7)(C)I
ýR. SPEC. AGENT I
Okay.
Who was that individual?
[(b)(7)(C)
Hi a e a
(b)(7)(C)
[j H-is name wasi PR. SPEC. AGENTI (b)(7)(c)
Okay.
And was that performance related?
Or was that also --
That was performance related.
£SR. SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
bb)(7)(C)
I He admitted to me on leaving, after three months of working in the group, that he did nothing because he didn't want to be in the group.
ER. SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(c)
Okay.
[SPECIAL AGENT~
And I (
ll7)(C lso worked for you?
Is that correct?
(b)(7)(C)
I C
I He was on loan to us from the I(b)(7)(C) as part of what we call the (b)(7)(C)
[SPECIAL AGENT (b)17)(C)
Okay.
[bX7)(c)
And the Ic)(T)c)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1cr-39 1
team was to take (b)(7)(C) and go through them and 2
look for written error traps, and come up with 3
recommendations for removing them.
4
[SPECIAL AGENT7)
Okay.
5 1
1 And, in that three-month 6
period, he had done nothing.
He had been verbally 7
counseled; he had been written counseled; and he was 8
about to be dealt with from HR.
And he had a he 9
had also had an issue with an employee an EEO 10 event.
So he was on --
we gave him time off for the 11 EEO event and for not performing his job.
And he left 1(b)(7)(C) 12 on And that's and he's still out on (b)(7)(C) 13 14 PR. SPEC.
AGENT (
Okay.
After 15
[
j suspension, were you there when he came 16 back to work the first day?
(b)(7)(C) 17 I was.
18
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT[(b)F)C)
Okay.
You 19 presented him with a reinstatement letter (b)(7)(C) 20 1
Presented him with 21 reinstatement letter and a performance improvement 22 plan.
23
- R.
SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(c)
Okay.
24 EPECIAL AGENTE7 That would have been 25 on 9/27/2010?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
-1c-1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 i8 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 40 (b)(7)(C)
That's correct.
[SPECIAL AGENT T Okay. What wertJ I
comments when he returned to work?
[b)(7)(C)
IWhen he returned to work, I read both the reinstatement letter to him, and the performance improvement plan; asked him if he had any comments regarding that; and he said, "No.
Where do I sign?"
And I told him -- but he did turn tob L....)
nd says, "I disagree with this derogatory comment thing, even though it was factual."
That was the comment he made toI(b)(7)(C)
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT[
- Factual, in the respect that he was --
(b)(7)(C)
I He meant what he said.
6R. SPEC.
AGENT
]
he meant what he said?
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)Yes I )I Yes SR.
SPEC.
AGENT All right.
And you said you presented him with his perforimance improvement plan, at that point?
(b)(7)(C)
I
=
=1That's correct.
LSR. SPEC. AGENT
] Okay.
Do you still administer that plan for him?
Was he --
I(b)(7)(C)
No.
I closed that plan out in June.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www~nealrgross.com
- 1 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41
[SR. SPEC.
AGENTI(b)(7)(c)
Of this year?
(b)(7)(C)
Of this year. Because it was -- his behavior had changed.
VR. SPEC. AGENT (b)(7)(c)
Okay.
When he came
- back, after his suspension, what type of behavioral change did you notice in
- him, if
- any, initially?
(b)(7)(C)
He went silent.
He --
he was not a proactive member of the team.
He just did his job.
He didn't he didn't interact in meetings.
At times, he seemed even totally
-- at --
at meetings, you know, when people are turned away from the speakers, it was like he was there but not there.
And he displayed that for many meetings.
And so, his way of -- of getting better was going silent.
I mean, he even admitted to that to me in the end of the year.
[SR. SPEC.
AGENTI(
Okay.
L(b)(7)(C) c I
=
And I said, "But you are supposed to be a productive team member.
And no productive team members are just doing their r(b)(7)(C) but help them get the team better."
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT 1(b)(7)(C)Okay.
So, from that aspect, did his performance decrease?
Or did --
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
- I7c, 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I(b)(7)(C)
I 42 His performance increased tremendously.
I(b)(7)(C)
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT (COkay.
And what about his interactions with the people?
Other than going silent, were there any differences in his interactions?
(b)(7)(C)
There were -- he wasn't interacting with anybody.
(SR. SPEC.
AGENT 1(b)(7)(c)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
If
- anything, he made people feel chilled.
He --
he did not --
he did not interact as an open member of the team.
If he did, he did it without my knowledge.
LSPECIAL AGENT C)
His performance was actually better, but his --
(b)(7)(C)
I(
His performance was never an issue.
- PECIAL AGENTZ7 Okay.
But you said it got better, is what I was saying.
(b)7)(C)
He --
he wasn't doing a lot of performance, but it really increased tremendously, especially when he came back, you know.
He was even starting to fix some of theI(b)(7)(c) and get rid of some of the error traps, even though he thought it was petty and not something he needed to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
43 1
2 3
4 S
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 do.
- R.
SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(C)
So how did he do on his performance improvement plan?
How often did you meet with him on his PIP?
(b)(7)(C)e 1j 1 We met --
well, in in November of 2010, they instituted the new one-on-one.
ER. SPEC.
AGENT Yes?
(()(7)(C)
(C I So we had those one-on-ones to do.
And they're different.
Those one-on-ones are are where they're actually employee the employees themselves are are supposed to fill out a form with what their issues might be and they're supposed to be the ones that come forward with things they think they need to be doing.
It's not the supervisor telling the employee.
It's the employee telling the supervisor how they're performing.
SR. SPEC. AGEN Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
Aind so, we had one of his(b)7)C) those in November.
And, at the time, I
performance was good.
He'd gone silent.
And I you know, I recognized the silence, but you know, it was just a short period of time.
Over the over the next two months, now I'm noticing he's not saying anything.
And that's his way of changing his NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
44 1
behavior.
But that's not a good way of changing 2
behavior.
3 ER. SPEC. AGENTZ (b)(7)
I Okay.
4
[SPECIAL AGENTI
" So, overall, how was 5
he doing on his improvement plan?
I mean, I know that 6
you met with him and you had to give him some type of 7
feedback.
I(b)(7)(C) 8 1
1 So, in
- December, I had 9
met with him.
10 VPECIAL AGENT Yes?
(b)(7)(C) 11 And and we went 12 through his -- his plan.
And the way we did it is we 13 went down through the performance improvement plan and 14 I let him tell me how he believed he was correcting 15 the behavior.
And I. would ask questions.
- And, in 16 most cases, the question I kept asking was, "Well, how 17 does going silent show that you've improved our 18 behavior?"
And he goes, "Well, that's my way of doing 19 it."
And I said, "Well, then you're not coming up 20 with ideas in meetings; you're not taking in meetings; 21 you're not being interactive with the team.
So how 22 does that show me that you're improving?"
And he 23 said, "I'm just going silent."
24
[SPECIAL AGENTE)
Okay.
And how long 25 was he on the performance improvement plan?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgrm.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 45 I(b)(7)(C)
He was on that performance improvement plan until the 2010 end of the year PDP was written.
And he was still on Nis at that point.
He still had I
- felt, because he still hadn't showed sustainable progress with his behavior, that he was still had needs improvements.
And so we extended his performance improvement plan.
And it that extension --
again, we had to go through or end-of year PDP process, which it took until
- March, I
think it
- was, late
- March, before everything was completed.
And then the PIP would come after that.
- Well, in his case, he was getting a PIP extension.
- Now, I had told him in December, when I had the one-on-one with him, that he probably would get a PIP extension.
And he said, "Hey, whatever it takes."
[SR.
SPEC. AGENI And you said he got off in the end of June?
Is that correct?
(b)(7)(C)
In
- June, I
- well, let's see.
- Actually, it would have been July.
Because the --
the process,
- again, took some time.
And I went and did --
I did the mid-years for this year.
tR. SPEC.
AGENT Z)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
I And he got commendables in both ratings in the mid-year, this year.
And he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.corn
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 46 had a you know, he had maybe one or two NIs, but nothing to be put into an NI overall.
So he was given commendables, overall.
His performance, he had a couple of exemplaries, even.
But not enough to put him in an exemplary status.
In performance, he's still in the commendable performance.
tR. SPEC.
AGENTI(bI(7)(C) 7 Okay I(b)(7)(C)
I And so then, soon after that, then we met with HR to find out what the next part of the process was with the PIP.
And they said, "Well, you need to write a PIP closure."
And she sent me an example.
And so I wrote his PIP closure and held a meeting with him and his new supervisor, and read through it; and shoot his hand and said, "You
- know, I
appreciate you changing your you behaviors."
those 2011
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT Ib)(Z)(C)
Okay.
And PDPs, they are already done?
(b)(7)(C)
They're --
the mid-years are done.
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT l(b)(7)(C)
Mid-years?
All right.
documented (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
tR. SPEC.
AGENT
[(b)(7)(c) And you your meetings with him these PIP NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com (202) 234-4433
47 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 meetings?
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT[(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
If can get the documents?
(b)(7)(C)
Well, the --
the --
the end of year of the PIP closure
- meeting, I
documented.
Yes.
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
If I
can get the PIP documents and the 2011 mid-year?
(b)(7)(C)
Jb()C 1 think has all that.
I can't get into the mid-year any more, since I'm no longer his supervisor.
.R. SPEC.
AGENT[I' hJ' Okay.
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
All right.
I were any of the actions (b)(7)(C) taken against I.
because he raised what he considered to be a safety concern?
(b)(7)(C)
I I didn't even know he raised any safety concerns.
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
All right.
And I already asked that question.
Okay.
Any quest ions, TSPECIAL AGENT*
You said that his silence made people feel chilled.
Can you give me an example of what it is you mean by that?
(b)(7)(C)
- Well, if we were all in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
- vv*j.......
v
C, 48 1
a conference -- we're all in the conference room every 2
morning for the morning brief.
And it was an 3
opportunity for I(b)(7)(C) to come up with 4
issues or concerns they had within the group, or ideas 5
for improvements.
And he just -- this whole time, he 6
just pretty much was like this.
He never interacted 7
with the group.
He just was like --
and --
and have 8
you ever seen anybody where they're giving you a blank 9
stare?
That's what he was giving was a blank stare.
10 And it was daily.
And people commented on about it.
11 Everybody in the group had noticed it.
I never had to 12 say it to anybody.
I -- and I didn't.
I just made my 13 own observations.
And, you know, at the end of the 14 year, when I talked to him, I said, you know, 15 going silent is not a good way to show you've improved 16 your behaviors."
And I gave --
I gave him an analogy.
17 And here's the analogy I gave him.
And this --
this 18 was probably in I'm thinking February or March time 19 frame, but I could go back and find -- figure out when 20 it was.
But I got a speeding ticket, 85 miles an hour 21 on the highway.
Okay?
And I was really nice with the 22 officer.
In fact, he said to me, he said -- he says, 23 "Man.",
he says, "I wish everybody treated us this 24 way."
And I said, "Well, you and I have the same 25 job."
And he goes, "What's that?"
And I said, "To NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
49 1
protect the health and welfare of the public."
2 Because he knew I worked at the plant, because, you 3
- know, the first thing they ask you is where you're 4
coming from and you say work; where do you work.
And 5
I said, "We both have the same job.
It's to protect 6
the health and welfare of the public."
And he goes, 7
"Wow."
He says, "Man, I wish everybody else had that 8
attitude" He says, "Well."
He says, "I hate to tell 9
you this, [
j but I still have to give you this 10 ticket."
And I said, "Fine.
You know, you've got to 11 do your job."
So the analogy I gave t as, you 12
- know, I had --
I got that speeding ticket.
And the 13 next morning, I could wake up; get in my car; drive to 14 work; and I
could speed.
Or I could change my 15 behavior.
It's a choice I get to make.
And I made 16 it.
I slowed down and I found that the gas savings 17 alone is paying for the ticket.
And so I said, "There 18 was a gain for me."
And I said, "In your case, you 19 could wake up one morning and decide, you know what, 20 I'm going to become a viable, hard working member of 21 the team and I'm not going to put people -- I'm not 22 going to treat people with disrespect.
It's no 23 different than the decision I made.
But you get to 24 make that decision.
I won't make it for you."
And 25 that was -- soon after that, he changed his behavior.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.com
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 i0 211 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 50 You know, maybe he thought about what I said and he changed.
Because, boom, right after that is when he started changing his behavior.
ISPECIAL AGENT)7)(C)
But, in terms of, you
- know, since chill is a word that obviously, in this industry, in the nuclear industry, that has a certain connotation, you're not referring to chill in terms of the safety or reporting safety concerns?
I)
I No.
When I say chill, I
- mean, I think people were afraid to talk.
LSPECIAL AGENT Why would they be afraid to talk?
(b)(7)(C)
Because of the way he came at people.
When when he was in the room --
and then we're talking last year --
the fact that he challenged -- the way he challenged people was kind of demeaning and disrespectful.
People stopped bringing things up in that manner.
ISPECIAL AGENT But I'm referring --
I'm sorry.
L (b)(7)(C)
So that's what I meant by chilled.
ýPECHAL AGENT I'm just referring to the silent period.
I understand if there' s confrontations, interpersonal confrontations, that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.corn
h 51 1
that would cause people to --
I'm just referring to 2
what you had said about his silence making other 3
people feel chilled, specifically.
I(b)(7)(C)I 4
Yes.
That's kind of 5
what I meant.
You know, just people just were 6
afraid that --
it's like they felt they were walking 7
on egg shells with him.
8 S PECIAL AGENT =
]kay.
(b)(7)(C) 9 most --
more so 10 than anybody.
You know, she -- she told me, "Man, he 11 throws darts at me with his -- his looks."
And -- and 12 I said, "Well, I can't do much about that part of it."
13 I mean, I don't see them, so I can't do much about it.
14 I said, "You just have to continue to do business as 15 usual.-"
16 EPECIAL AGENT Okay.
17
[SR.
SPEC. AGENTI' b)(7)(c)
Any questions?
(b)(7)(C) 18 No.
19
[R. SPEC.
AGENT
[
Okay.
Okay.
20 Anything else, (b)(7)(C) 21 LSPECIAL AGENTIII__
No.
22
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT 1()7()Okay.E (b(7(C) 23 1~ only have three other questions and 24 I'll be done.
(b)(7)(C) 25 All right.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
52 t"
I(b)(7)(C) 1 iSR. SPEC. AGENT Have I or any 2
other NRC employee threatened you or promised you 3
anything in return for your testimony here today?
(b)(7)(C) 4 1No.
5
[R. SPEC. AGEN*
ffc Have you given 6
this statement freely and voluntarily?
(b)(7)(C) 7 1 Absolutely.
8
£R. SPEC.
AGENT I (b)(7)(c)
Okay.
We're 9
about to close the record out now.
Is there anything 10 I haven't asked you about this, that you think is 11 important and you want to bring up now?
(b)(7)(C) 12 1
No.
I think we've pretty 13 much covered everything that was related to this 14 issue.
15 LSR.
SPEC.
AGENT I(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
This 16 interview is concluded at approximately 4:30 p.m. on 17 September 29, 2011.
18 (Whereupon, the interview was concluded at 19 4:30 p.m.)
20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Interview of (b)(7)(C)
Docket Number:
Location:
4-2011-024 San Clemente, California were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape(s) provided by the NRC.
&,.2U1 "1- 02
ýOf f ici C1ri e Neal R.
Gross & Co.,
Inc.
GRSSA-A..GE NEAL I S)
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www.nealrgross.com