ML12320A419
| ML12320A419 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | San Onofre  |
| Issue date: | 01/11/2012 |
| From: | NRC/OI/RGN-III/FO |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 4-2011-059, FOIA/PA-2012-0238 | |
| Download: ML12320A419 (23) | |
Text
EXHIBIT 21 Case No. 4-2011-059 EXHIBIT 21
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 + + + + -r 4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW 6 -------------------------------- x 7 IN THE MATTER OF:
8 INTERVIEW OF : 01 Case No.
9 (b)(7)(C) : 4-2011-059 10 (CLOSED) 11 -------------------------------- x 12 Wednesday, January 11, 2012 13 14 Meeting Room, L-50 Building 15 San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station 16 5000 Pacific Coast Highway 17 near San Clemente, California 18 19 The above-entitled interview was conducted 20 at 3:40 p.m.
21 22 BEFORE:
(b)(7)(C) 23 Iformation In this record was -,,.
24 accoreiance with Fe, dom d of A,~ ~ ~ . 1A(~t~l pt~
25 EXHIBIT-LI PAGE .. F gZ P O..
59 0UCOURT NEAL R. GROSS
`4 -2M "
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2 1 APPEARANCES:
2 On Behalf of the Interviewee, Other Individuals 3 Involved in the Investigation and Southern California 4 Edison Company:
5 6
7 8 of:
9 (b)(7)(C) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 PROCEEDINGS 1
(b)(7)(C) We' re on the 2
3 record. This is an interview of (b)(7)(C) 4 Today's date is January 21, 2012. It is approximately 5 3:40 p.m. The location of this interview is in the 6 meeting room in Building L-50 at the San Onofre 7 Nuclear Generating Station in San Clemente, 8 California.
9 Present at this interview i 10 12 This interview involves an allegation of 13 discrimination made by a former employee at SONGS for 14 reporting nuclear safety concerns to the NRC and it's 15 reported under 01 Case No. 4-2011-056 (sic).
16 (b)(7)(C) I iS Zepresenting (b)(7)(C) 17 you personally in regard to this investigation?
18 (b)(7)(C) I Yes.
19 (b)(7)(C) o you understand 20 the purpose of her presence here today?
21 (b)()(C) Yes.-
22 (b)(7)(C) Do you understand 23 thati (b)(7)(C Iso represents the Company and 24 other individuals?
25 (b)(7)(C) Yes.
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4 i (b)(7)(C) Does your 2 employer require you to have an attorney present when 3 you are being interviewed by the NRC Office of 4 Investigations?
5 (b)(7)(C) No.
(b)(7)(C) 6 (b)()(C)Were you in any 7 way threatened with an adverse action if you did not 8 request corporate counsel?
(b)(7)(C) No.
9 10 - (b)(7)(C) [Do you feel that 11 you would suffer an adverse consequences from your 12 employer if you would have elected not to have 13 personal representation here?
14 (b)(7)(C) I No.
15 (b)(7)(C) Will your 16 testimony in this matter be in any way inhibited by 17 the attorney's presence?
(b)(7)(C) No.
18 19 (b)(7)(C) ýo you understand 20 that you have a right to a private interview with me 21 at your convenience?
22 (b)(7)(C) Yes.
23 (b)(7)(C) With that 24 understanding, do you still wan (b)(7)(C) resent 25 as your representative today?
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5 1 (b)(7)(C) I Yes.
2 (b)(7)(C) Okay. Thank you.
3 (b)(7)(C) or the record, will you 4 please state your full name, your firm and the scope 5 of your representative please?
6 1 (b)(7)(C) ýnd I'm an 7 attorney with the Southern California Edison Company 8 Law Department. And I'm here as a personal 9 representative of I (b)(7)(c) And I'm also 10 representing the Company and other witnesses.
1 I(b)(7)(C) [Do you anticipate 12 a conflict of interest with respect to your 13 representation oI (b)(7)(C) JS an individual and your 24 concurrent representation of Southern California 15 Edison?
16 (b)(7)(C) No, I do not.
17 (b)(7)(C) In the event that 18 a conflict was to arise during the course of this 19 interview what action would you take?
20 l(b)(7)(C) II would inform (b)(7)(c) 21 that I could no longer represent him, that I would 22 continue to represent the Company and others. I would 23 also inform him of his right to continue the interview 24 without representation or to seek representation of 25 his own choosing.
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(b)(7)(C) iThank you.
1 2 -(b)(7)(C) the NRC 01 protocol includes a 3 swearing-in of the witnesses. Do you have any 4 objection to being sworn in this afternoon?
(b)(7)(C) Can you raise 5
6 your right hand please? Do you swear that the 7 information that you're about to give is the truth, 8 the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you 9 God?
(b)(7)(C) I do.
(b)(7)(C) Thank you, sir.
12 Can you give for the record your full name please?
(b)(7)(C) (b)(7)(C) 13 14 [ EI (b)(7)(C) What is your 15 16 current position, sir?
1.7 (b)(7)(C) 'm --
18 S (b)(7,(C) Good question.
19 I (b)(7)(C) i m nearly (b)(7)(C) 20 (b)(7)(C) 21 (b)(7)(C) And who are you 22 23 currently employed by?
24 (b)(7)(C Southern California Edison 25 Company.
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7 (b)(7)(C) jHow long have you 1
2 been the (b)(7)(C) here?
3 4 (b)(7)(C) Do you have any 5 other experience in the nuclear industry?
I (b)(7)(C)D i was in theI (b)(7)(C) or 6
7 four years as an officer and then I worked at SONGS 8 fro (b)(7)(C) And before I did 9
(b)(7)(C) 10 (b)(7)(C) Thank you, sir.
12 We were talking a little bit off the record and I was 13 telling you about the focus of my investigation and 14 how it involves some allegations made by a former 15 employee,I there (b)(7)(C) at SONGS.
16 Generally speaking right off the bat here with I 17 do you remember any interactions Specifically with (C) 18 19 no, I do not specifically remember that.
(b)(7)(C) All right. When 20 21 I interviewed~ (bX7)()C)he stated that on or about 22 August 27, 2010 he met with you and(7)(c) in the 23 ECP office regarding some concerns. Do you recall 24 that at all?
(b)(7)(C) I recall tha _1 (b)(7)(C) ' aised 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 concerns to the Employee Concerns Company at about 2 that time. But I don't specifically recall having any 3 meeting with him.
4 (b)(7)(C) you remember I Do 5 working withIb(7)C) 6 (b)(7)(C) Yes, I do.
7 (b)(7)(C) O} cay. And you 8 don't remember him sitting on any inter view with (b(7) 9 regarding any concerns?
10 assigned to 11 investigate that case.
12 I ' (b)(7)(C) I Do you remember 13 what the case was about?
14 I (b)(7)(C) I'm sorry. I don't.
15 F (b)(7)(C) [ Okay. Do you 16 recall how the case ended? How the investigation 17 conducted by Iended?
(b)(7)(C) 1.8 (b)(7)(C) No, I'm sorry. I don't.
19 (b)(7)(C) Okay. Do you 20 recall any other meetings that you might have had with 21 (b)(7)(C) during the time he was employed here?
22 (b)(7)(C) As you know, he was employed 23 forl (b)(7)(C) And I remember meeting wizh 24 him on various things both (b)(7)(C) his __
25 Like I said, he wasI (b)(7)(C) I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 don't remember how long, but I don't remember any 2 specific meetings.
3 (b)(7)(C) Okay.
4 (b)(7)(C) Can we go off the record 5 a moment?
6 1 (b)(7)(C) j Sure. We'll go 7 off the record.
8 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
9 I (b)(7)(C) [We ' re back on the 10 record. The time is approximately 3:48 p.m.
11 (b)(7)(C) ou were able to review some 12 F (b)(7)(C) during the break. Correct?
13 (b)T)(C) : That's correct.
14 (b)(7)(C) Did those refresh 15 your memory at all?
16 (b)(7)(c) Yes, they do.
17 (b)(7)(C) Does it refresh 18 your memory in terms of the concern that (b)7)(C) 19 brought to the (b)(7)(C) 20 21 (b)(7)(C) Yes, it does.
22 (b)(7)(C) And what was the 23 nature of his concern at the time?
24 (b)(7)C) He was concerned that a 25 different supervisor within the (b)(7)(C)
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10 1
( Unit had been telling employees that 2 they were directed to raise concerns within the chain 3 of command.
(b)(7)(C) 4 I Okay. Now during 5 that time and I know we're going back a little ways 6 and I'm asking you for some specific information but 7 didl (b)(7)(C) say anything about employees being told 8 not to go to theI or to the NRC with any concerns?
9 I (b)(7)(C) I read just the summary. I'd 10 have to look in more detail in the report to see 11 exactly how he expressed it.
12 LJ)CWould you read where 13 within the document then?
14 (b)(7)(C) I will in a moment, yes, as 15 soon as I find it.
I (b)(7)(C) Okay. So you have the 16 17 document. (Inaudible)
(b)(7)(c) Right. Okay.
18 19
]
natin (a I 20 document, that was in the inforr 'ation that I 21 requested. Right?
.(b)(7)(C) Right.
22 23 I (b)(7)(C) I Okay. When 24 you're going through this report, (b)(7)(C) I does it 25 refresh your memory from the meeting that you an*
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11 1 had with (b)(7)(C) back in August of 2010?
2 IbC IThe opening letter that we 3 sent to (b)(Z)(C) I does because it specifically 4 identifies thatI (b)Z)(C)I and I had a meeting on ji discuss this issue.
5 6 (b)(7)(C) Okay. Could 7 there have been any other dates in which he met with 8 you guys regarding the same concern?
9 II(b)(7)(C) don't recall any other 10 meetings.
(b)(7)C Do you normally document 1]
12 those meetings in the case log?
13 I Yes, they would normally be 14 documented and I don't see any of the meetings here.
15 I see that closure, the final note that I O 16 called to submit onI F ,,,7,c, for closure.
I (b)(7)(C) I Okay. Does it 17 18 state on that log exactly when the initial meeting 19 took place between you, - (b)(7)(C) L an* (b)(7)(C) I (b)(7)(C) Not in that report. But the 20 21 opening letter does. My letter dated (b)(7)(C) 22 says we had held a meeting on -- (b)(7) says we 23 had held a meeting on (b)(7)(c) 24 (b)(7)(C) I f")]< And to 25 your recollection there weren't any other meetings NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 that you had with him?
2 (b)(7)(C) No, I can't recall any other 3 meetings.
4 (b)(7)(C) Okay. (b)(7)(C) 5 subsequently conducted an inquiry about this concern.
6 Right?
7(b)(7)(C) That is correct.
8 (b)(7)(C) And how did that 9 inquiry end?
10 (b)(7)(C) The inquiry ended determining 11 tha (b)(7)(C) who is thel (D)(7)(C) in question had 12 made a statement which was perceived to be requesting 13 anyone who reported concerns to report those concerns 14 through the chain of command.
15 (b)(7)(C) Okay. To the 16 best of your recollection whe ný at down with 17 you andI (b)(7)(C) did he say anything about going to 18 the NRC with those concerns?
19 I (b)(7)(C) I'm sorry. I don't remember 20 the meeting at all. The letter refreshed my memory 21 that it had occurred. But I don't remember it.
22 1 (b)(7)(C) I Okay. Once this 23 investigation was finished bd (b)(7)(C) Idid you have 24 any discussions with anyone concerninglI7 Fc 25 (b)(7)(C) About this specific NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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%*--mI .......
13 1 investigation?
(b)(7)(C) Yes.
2 3 7 1 don't recall any discussions 4 with anyone.
5 (b)(7)(C) Do you recall any 6 discussions with (b)(7)(C) bout (b)(7)(C) fter this 7 investigation?
(b)(7)(c) Yes, because we had asked her 8
9 for corrective actions that she would be responsible 10 for carrying out.
F 1i. (b)(7)(C) Okay.
(b)(7)(C) And there was a later(
12 13 (b)(7)(C) _ eeting and the (b)(7)(C) meeting 14 was in because (b)(7)(C) proposed to take 15 disciplinary action against (b)(7)(C) And at 16 17 18
[ F I (b)(7)(C) I Okay. Just out 19 of curiosity, how big is that disciplinary board? How 20 many people sit in on it?
(7We have a procedure and I know 21 22 the quorum which is the minimum would be a chairman, 23 (b)()(C) and they might be the same person or 24 might not. There would be someone from Edison 25 employee from that person's chain of command lik(7c)
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14 b(C in this particular case. And then a 1
2 representative from the Law Department. There are 3 often more than that depending upon the nature of the 4 case and who the decision maker will be.
(b)(7)(C) All right. The 5
I bring that up is becauseI (b)(7)(C) 6 only reason 7 expressed a concern to me that he went to you -- well, too -- with a concern in the, (office.
8 9 And then not long after that his situationI (b)(7)(C) 7 10 11 12 13 (b)(7)(C) 14 15 16 17 18 But I would point out it's not correct to 19 characterize it as a discipline board. We do not 20 decide discipline. It's the responsibility of the 21 work group to come to us and say, "This is the 22 situation. This is our documentation. And we would 23 propose to discipline someone."
24 The ( Review Board's principal purpose 25 is to consider the impact on the safety conscious work NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 environment. We listen to their argument about the 2 discipline. Certainly i know in my head if I'm 3 present that the person that they're proposing to 4 discipline has raised a safety concern by one means or 5 the other. And I bear that in mind when they come 6 forward and say, "Here's our case to go forward with 7 the discipline."
8 The )Review Board isn't where the 9 discipline starts. The expectation is that the work 10 group would have reached their conclusion, but then 11 want to ask "Is there any interface with ECP or the 12 NRC that we're aware of?"
13 Then what might others in the group feel?
14 In other words, even though we finished the discipline 15 and they would have a legitimate basis to discipline 16 someone others in the work group not being 17 knowledgeable of that might perceive that it was 18 retaliatory when it in fact wasn't.
19 And that's what the Review Board 20 does. It asks questions about what will other people 21 in the work group or other work groups think. Because 22 typically you can't share with the work group why the 23 person has been disciplined. But yet they see they're 24 not there. So you need to be ready to offset any 25 potential chilling effects by thinking about those NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 things in advance and saying, "How could we mitigate 2 the consequences? We have a legitimate business 3 reason to take this discipline."
4 And the [71 Review Board looks at that 5 and agrees. But then "What's this going to mean? How 6 should we communicate with whom before or after 7 depending upon the situation the discipline whatever 8 that might be?"
I (b)(7)(C) Okay. Just so 9
10 I'm clear, what's this panel referred to as?
(b)(7)(C) I The Safety Conscious Work 12 Environment Review Board.
13 I(b)(7)(C) Okay. It's not 1.4 referred to as a disciplinary board or panel or 15 anything like that.
( No. It's invoked when you 16 17 propose to discipline an employee about its 18 termination or suspension. That's the initiating 19 reason to have a ) Review Board. And there are 20 other reasons, too, such as if you're reorganizing the 21 work where you're changing the policy. But typically 22 it's because the work group proposes to discipline 23 someone. But before they do so they come to the J 24 Review Board and they consider it.
(b)(7)(C) IWho is this work 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 group that you're referring to?
2 S(b)(7)(C) - The chain of command in this 3 case.
4 (b)(7)(C) And VA (phonetic).
5 (b)(7)(C) Okay.
6 (b)(7)(C) And maintenance in another 7
8 case. It's whoever the person works for.
(b)(7)(C) Okay. So the 9
i0 manner in which I have been characterizing this panel ii as a disciplinary panel is a mischaracterization.
12 Would that be fair?
Yes. The group does discuss 13 14 the discipline before it occurs. But it doesn't have 15 -- The discipline choices are made by the chain of 16 command.
(b)(7)(C) Right. But you 17 18 discuss the matter as it relates to a SCWE.
S (b)(7)(c) I That's right.
19 l(b)(7)(C) Okay.
20 (b)(7)(C) As it relates to the individual 21 22 they propose to discipline and as it relates to others 23 in his work group or it might be his friends or past 24 work groups and it varies with each situation.
25 I (b)(7)(C) IOkay. Thank you.
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18 1 (b)(7)(C) Yes. The decision to 2 discipline has been made, but before it's carried out 3 you have to see what the (C) impact is. And at the 4 same time is the opportunity for the ECP and other 5 groups like you all and other groups to indicate that 6 maybe we should make a review because the individual 7 has stated a protected activity somewhere.
8 (b)(7)(c) j And there has to be 9 (b)(7)(C) because otherwise the chain of command 10 (b)(7)(C) 12 12 (b)(7)(C) When this was 13 discussed during this SCWE meeting, did you recall at 14 the time tha (b)(7)(C) (b)(7)(C) with his 15 concern?
16 (b)(7)(C) Yes.
17 (b)(7)(C) Did you bring it 18 up at the time?
19 I don't recall one way or the 20 other. I would generally not do so. My approach 21 would be to be more skeptical and listen to the 22 argument that the chain of command is making about why 23 they want to take the discipline and look for any 24 interaction between why they are taking the discipline 25 and something to do with the nature of the concern the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 individua 1 might have.
I "k(hl' 2 IL""' P Right. So when 3 managemen t brings forth its issue aboutI (b)(7)(C) Jnd 4 disciplin ary action that they want to impose you're 5 thinking "All right. Does the fact that bC --
6 thaI (b)(7)I(C) (b)(7)(C) have anything to do with 7 this deci sion?"
(b)(7)(C) Precisely.
8 (b)(7)(C) I All right. But 9
10 did you b ring it up during that meeting?
2i (I don't recall one way or the 12 other.
Ih~f7~W'~
13 ...."_' Okay. That was 14 basically your purpose for being there. Correct?
15 C Yes. The purpose for being 16 there is (a) knowing kind of both sides in my head at 17 the same time but (b) my experience in managing safety 18 conscious work environments usually helps decide the 19 kinds of communications, who to talk to and 20 bulletpoints about what to say. Working with groups 21 that have had challenged safety conscious work 22 environments, I recognize the kinds of things that may 23 reinforce it, when to talk to people, what to say.
(b)(7)(C) To the best of 24 25 your recollection, was that an issue in this case, you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 2 know, the fact -- Did the fact tha (b)(7)(C) (b)(7)(C) 2 impact the management's decision to impose 3 their disciplinary action?
(b)(7)(C) I Absolutely not.
4 5 (b)(7)(C) Okay. So you 6 were satisfied.
7 and that's 8 what the Review Board is supposed to be.
(b)(7)(C) Okay.
9 (b)(7)(C) Now it's my understanding that 10 11 in March of 2010 the NRC issued or sent SONGS its 12 letter on hp chilled work environment. Correct?
(b)(7)(C) That's correct.
13 14 I (b)()() Were you 15 personally aware of this letter coming to SONGS before 16 it was actually received here onsite?
(b)(7)(C) We had had discussions about 17 18 the safety conscious work environment with the NRC 19 before March 2nd. But, no, I don't recall being aware 20 that the actual letter was coming.
21 I Okay. When did 22 you first learn tha (b)(7)(C) as terminated?
(b)(7)(C) We have the Safety Conscious 23 24 Work and Review Board in c I don't remember 25 the exact date but around the I And there were --
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21 1 At the end of that meeting, the chain of command had 2 some actions to get ready to do these kinds of 3 communications. So it would have been a few days 4 after that. I don't know exactly how much after that 5 he was terminated.
6 I (b)(7)(C) Okay.
7 Counsel, do you have any questions?
(b)(7)(C) No.
8 (b)(7)(C) I Okay. (b)(7)(C) 9 10 have I or any other NRC representative threatened you
.i! in any manner or offered you any rewards in return for 12 this statement?
I (b)(7)(C) No.
13 14 ) Have you given I(b)7)C 15 this statement freely and voluntarily?
(b)(7)(C) I Yes.
16 (b)(7)(C) Is there any 17 18 additional information concerning this case that you 19 care to add for the record?
(b)(7)(C) I No.
20 (b)(7)(C) At this time, the 21 22 interview will be concluded. The time is 23 approximately 4:05 p.m. Off the record.
24 (Whereupon, at 4:05 p.m., the above-25 entitled matter was concluded.)
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A CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Interview of I (b)(7)(C)
Docket Number: 4-2011-059 Location: San Clemente, California were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape(s) provided by the NRC.
(b)(7)(C)
Ohffi*cial Transcriber Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
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