ML12320A418
| ML12320A418 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | San Onofre  |
| Issue date: | 01/11/2012 |
| From: | NRC/OI/RGN-III/FO |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 4-2011-059, FOIA/PA-2012-0238 | |
| Download: ML12320A418 (47) | |
Text
EXHIBIT 20 Case No. 4-2011-059 EXHIBIT 20
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10 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 94 -20 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS INTERVIEW x
IN THE MATTER OF:
INTERVIEW OF (b)(7)(C)
F 01 Case No.
4-2011-059 (CLOSED)
x Wednesday, January 11, 2012 Meeting Room, L-50 San Onofre Nuclear 5000 Pacific Coast near San Clemente, Building Generating Station Highway California at 1:00 p.m.
BEFORE:
The above-entitled interview was conducted illormation in this record was deleted
-i accordanice with the Freedom of InffomUtU Act, wiption$
21W Co (b)(7)(C)
L1 -059"4 (202) 234-4433 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBEf 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 E)HIBIT__.0 PAGE.I1OF qG.PAGI wvww-neargross.com rn E(S
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APPEARANCES:
On Behalf of the Interviewee, Other Individuals Involved in the Investigation and Southern California Edison Company:
of; (b)(7)(C)
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PROCEEDINGS 2
(b)(7)(C)
I We' re on the 3
record.
This is an interview ofi (b)(7)(C) 4 Today's date is January 11, 2012.
It is approximately 5
1:00 p.m.
6 The location of this interview is in the 7
meeting room in Building L-50 at the San Onofre 8
Nuclear Generating Station in San
- Clemente, 9
Present at this interview are (b)(7)(C) 10 (b)(7)(C) 11 12 This interview involves an allegation of 13 discrimination made by a former employee at SONGS for 14 reporting nuclear safety concerns to the NRC and it's 15 reported under 01 Case No. 4-2011-059.
16 (b)(7)(C) is (b)(7)(C) 17 representing you personally in regard to this 18 investigation?
19 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
20 (b)(7)(C) o you understand 21 the purpose of her presence here today?
22 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
23 (b)(7)(C) iDo you understand 24 that (b)(7)(C) also represents the Company and 25 other individuals?
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(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
Does your employer require you to have an attorney present when you are being interviewed by the NRC Office of Investigations?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
(b)(7)(C)
Were you in any way threatened with an adverse action if you did not request corporate counsel?
(b)(7)(C)
I No.
(b)(7)(C)
JDo you feel that you would suffer any adverse consequences from our employer if you would have elected not to have personal representation here?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
(b)(7)(C)
Would your testimony in this matter be in any way inhibited by the attorney's presence?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
(b)(7)(C)
J Do you understand that you have a right to a private interview with me at your convenience?
(b)(7)(c)
JYes.
(b)(7)(C)
With that understanding, do you still wani (b)(7)(C) resent NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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for the interview?
(b)(7)(C) l Yes.
l[ Thank you.
(b)(7)(C) for the record, would you please your full name, your firm and the scope of your representation please?
(b)7)(~
(b)(7)(C)
I 'm a senior attorney with the Southern California Edison Law Department.
And I'm here representing today representingI, (b)(7)(c) and I'm also representing other witnesses in this matter.
(b)(7)(C)
Do you anticipate a
conflict of interest with respect to your representation oI (b)(7)(C) as an individual and your concurrent representation of SCE?
(b)(7)(C)
INo.
I (b)(7)(C)
I In the event that a conflict was to arise during the course of this testimony or this interview, what action would you take?
(b)(7)(C)
I would inform (b)(7)(C) that I could no longer represent her as a witness, that I would continue to represent the SCE and other witnesses in this matter.
I would tell her that she has the right to choose to continue with the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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interview with no representation or she can ask for a 2
continuance to obtain new representation of her own 3
choice.
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(b)(7)(C)
IThank you.
i I
5 (b)(7)(C) the NRC 0I protocol 6
includes a swearing in of witnesses.
Do you have any 7
objection to being sworn in this afternoon?
8 (b)(7)(C)
No.
9 (b)(7)(C)
Can you raise 10 your right hand?
Do you swear that the information i1 you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and 12 nothing but the truth so help you God?
13 (b)(7)(C)
I do.
14 (b)(7)(C)
Thank you.
15
- Madam, can you give for the record your full name 16 please?
17 b())
b()C 18 (b)(7)(C)
What is your 19 current position?
20 (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) 21 (b)(7)(C)
I 22 (b)(7)(C)
And who are you 23 employed.yv?
24 (b)(7)(C)
Southern California 25 Edison.
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I (b)(7)(C)
And where do you work out of?
Do you work here at SONGS or do you work at another location?
I (b)(7)(C)
I mainly work out of the (b(
)C (b)(7)(C) -
1 So you w o rk for (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
=
And can you give me a brief description of your position as (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
I deal with (b)(7)(C)
I.(b)(7)(C) primary focus in your job?
(b)(7()
Yes.
iC, Is that your (b)(7)(C)
All right.
We were talking off the record and I was telling you about the focus of my investigation, how involved allegations made by a former employee here at SONGS.
His name is (b)(7)(C)
He's al (b)(7)(C)
During the time that he was employed here, he was here for the[
(b)(7)(C)
I Did you have any interactions with him at that time?
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10 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C) jWere any of these interactions related to any allegations that he made to the NRC or to the ECP or to anyone else?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
(b..7)(C)
Okay.
When was the first time that you dealt with any issue involving (b)(7)(C)
I So I knewl (b)(7)(C) 3n his reporting t That's when it was around that time when I started to initial the work with him oni (b)(7)(C) issues.
I (b)(7)(C)
What was his position at the time?
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And under what division or department was he working under?
(b)(7)(C)
I (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
That' s my recollection in (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) division.
(b)(7)(C)
I just want to be clear when you're talking about his position when she first met him or in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 10 11 12 13 i4 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 IK (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) 9
]Originally in his (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) at SONGS.
Oh, okay.
IThat's what we're I:
talking about.
Right?
I (b)(7)(C) kes.
So when I first met him he was while he was in his position as th (b)(7)(C) (
(
nI (b)(7)(C)
IThat's when I first met him.
I (b)(7)(C) 1Okay.
And that was before peer of yours?
I (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
You could say that.
We didn't share the same
- title, but in (b)(7)(C)
I I (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
F (b)(7)(C) 10kay.
So he ended up (b)(7)(C)
I Correct?
(b)(7)(C)
And he Correct?
L (b)(7)(C)
IYes.
(b)(7)(C)
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9 10 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (b)(7)(C here at SONGS --
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C) did you have any more interaction with him like you had before he had left?
[
((C) 7 Yes.
So before he M
(C) we had various interactions just kind of "Hey, how are you" and so I guess friendly.
And when (C)
(b)(7)(C) it started out that way.
But then it turned into working with him as aI (b7)(C)
Does that make sense?
(b)(7)(C)
Sure.
(b)(7)(C) 7 Okay.
(bi7)(C)
When you were interacting wit (b)(7)(C) did he bring your attention to any problems that he was having here at the plant?
(b)(7)(C)
He brought to my attention problems he was having with one of his employees.
Yes.
I (b)(7)(C)
What was the employee's name?
Do you remember?
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
I I
(b)(7)(C)
I Okay.
And you don't have to go into too much detail, but what was the primary issue?
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(b)(7)(C)
I'd summarize it by saying there was communication issue between -- So there's a communication in her style in your style management and how she communicated to her employees.
And because he was overseeing her, her employees were complaining to him.
And so he was having some --
He was having issues with communicating her and setting expectations.
That was the summary.
(b)(7)(C)
So did he come to you and discuss the situation in a casual manner or did he come to you in more of a professional capacity looking for some type of for lack of a better word mentorship?
(b)(7)(C)
I Yes, it was more for counsel for guidance.
And actually I came to him --
I went to him becaus (b)(7)(c) ame to me to complain about him.
And so I called him to basically get his side of the story as to what was happening.
And so that's when we first started interacting a 1 )Cnd as I(b)(7)(C)
I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Were you brokering this situation out of a friendly gesture or was this something that you saw as aný (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) that you should get involved in as part of your job description?
Which NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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a perso 4
1 (b)(7)(C 5
make so 6
their r*
7 within 8
9 anyone 10 specifi 11 supervi 12 (b)(7)(C) fit was definitely not from nal standpoint.
It was ani (b)(7)(C) j) trying to mediate and get the facts and me recommendations as to how they can rectify elationship and also resolve some of the issues the department.
I (b)(7)(C)
IDid you talk with else regarding that situation? And what I mean cally is did you talk with any of (b)(7)(C) sors or anyone else?
I-(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (b)(7)(C)
Who else did you speak with?
(b)(7)(C)
I spoke with his manager, (b)(I)And (b)(7)(C) okay.
And what did you communicate t (b7) t the time?
(b)(7)(C)
What I
said to her initially was that I
was starting to get some concerns.
There is some conflict resolution issues betweeI (b)(7)(C) lnd (b)(7)(C)
I And I also said to her that I would get back with her once I was done with my fact-finding and give her my conclusions which i did.
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]Okay.
Did you subsequently get any feedback from (b)(7)(C) aboutr(
(b)(7)(C) 1A specific issue or?
I(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(T(C)
-]On this specific issue so this was on or about like the (b)(7)(C) which is also the same time I went out on (b)(7)(C)
[
[E] So actually like the day before I went (b()(Iwas dealing with (b)C) nd (b)(7)(C) ssue.
So I summarized my findings and I handed my findings off to my colleague, I (b)(7)(C)
She was the person who (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
But I also gave her a summary of my findings to (b)(7)(c)
So we just kind of talked about what my findings were and what my recommendations were.
(b)(7)(C)
What were your recommendations if you remember?
I (b)(
)(c:)My recommendations for (bnC)ere to talk to her about her management style and maybe send her to a crucial conversations class just to kind of strengthen the communication style or her management style.
And maybe as (b))to oversee NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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.0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 her and mentor her and guide her and help her with her communications style.
And also I had recommendations forl (b7)(C) -1in not to be so strong and militant in his management of i (b)(7)(C)
Did you hear any other complaints about (b)(7)(C)
I rom anyone as time went on?
(b)()(C)So this wasi b()
(b)(7)(C)
And that's when I started to hear like this issue with (b)(7)(C) land I- (b)(7(c) seemed to not have resolved itself.
So I was hoping that by (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(c)
-1 this was going to be all taken care of.
But it didn't seem like it had gotten better.
In fact, I was starting to get phone calls fromI (b)(7)(C) :bou
=il performance.
And that his performance was starting to deteriorate and she wanted to talk to me about that.
I (b)(7)(C)
And you eventually had a conversation with her about (bX7)(c)
E(CO performance.
ll
)7)C)
We had several, almost on a weekly, sometimes several times a week, about his various issues about his performance.
(b)(7)(C)
I Was there a
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 15 recurring issue that kept coming up?
What was the primary issue or issues that were discussed between you two?
S (b)(7)(C)
The primary issues were that 2 j_,lt e
like he was not functioning as an (b)(
So in her mind she had hired him as aL (b)(7)(C) to oversee or be (b)(7)(C)
And she just felt like he was not pulling his weight as in he was not responsive to his staff.
He was not responsive to her.
He was not meeting deadlines.
He was not following through.
He would commit with certain tasks and not accomplish them and then she would constantly have to follow up with him.
And then again he would commit each time, but then not follow through with an end result.
I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Did these discussions between you and[
)()
egarding (C) go on through thel (b)(7)(¢)
F (b)(7)(C)
IYes.
(b)(7)(C)
Did those discussions ever lead anywhere?
In other words, how was it finally resolved?
I mean, what action did (b)(7) was)
)
ventually take?
(b)(7)(C)
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unaccomplished task was to sit down with him and get 2
his side of the story and see maybe there's a good 3
reason as to why he didn't do it.
So she would do 4
that and we would connect again.
And she would say he 5
just would say he forgot or he thought I was going to 6
do it.
7 And so those conversations seemed like 8
they continued to escalate where I remember as a joke 9
saying to her, "I feel like I work to talk about i
10 He was like my client."
I work at SCE to deal 11 withL (b)(7)(C) ssues.
And I remember us joking about 12 that.
13 And I
did eventually
- say, "Well, 14 eventually you need to start addressing this in more 15 than just a conversation and a coaching feedback.
16 Eventually we need to start.
So let's talk about his 17
(
and see how (b)(7)(C) we 18 can give him some feedback on the 19 (b)(7)(C)
Now during this 20 time did you have any conversations with l (b)(7)(lc 21 (b)(7)(C)
I did.
- Yes, I did a 22 couple of times.
Yes.
23 (b)(7)(C)
And what was the 24 extent of those conversations?
25 (b)(7)(l)
IHe was concerned about his NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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performance.
He felt like --
He would say to me that 2
he felt like he could do nothing wrong or nothing 3
right.
I'm sorry.
4 And he felt that kas coming down on 5
him too hard.
And I remember saying to him, "You're 6
anc You're expected to perform at a much higher 7
level than you I (b)(7)(C) 8 And I actually even remember talking to 9
him about a~fjin (b(7)(C)1 the job expectations, 10 your work hours, are completely different because 11 you're still a corporate employee.
When you're down 12 here at SONGS working as a
SONGS employee the 13 expectation is different especially you came back to 14 a really difficult department in b
and we were 15 just going through SAP implementation and people were 16 working crazy hours to try and keep up with the 17 implementation and changes.
18 And I said, "You're just coming to this 19 department."
And I said to him, "I feel like you're 20 expecting to delegate all of your work and just kind 21 of sit back and be the If and that's not the 22 department --
If that's what you were hoping to get 23 out of your job, you got into the wrong department."
24 I
(b)(7)(C)
What was his 25 attitude when you told him that?
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(b)(7)(C)
He said, "Well, you know, I guess I did.
I'm not expecting to just sit
- back, but I am expecting that my employees under me will handle some of these issues so that I don't have to get involved."
And I said, "Well, again, you got into the wrong department."
(b)(7)(C)
L Judging from your testimony is it fair to say that he acknowledged his shortcomings?
(b)(7)(C)
Actually several times he did with me.
He said, "Yeah, I get it.
I should have done this.
I should have done that.
But I just -- "
It just seemed to me that he wante a to give him a break even though he had shortcorings.
(b)(7)(C)
IAbout how many of these conversations did you have with him?
n(
Just off my recollection I'd say about three or four.
(b)(7)(C)
I,
1 "ere zhese casual conversations or was this something that were documented and you know?
I (b)(7)(C)
IThese were "Okay.
I know you from myI (b)(7)(C) as a friend.
And I'm coming to you as a friend and I'm also coming to you as myl NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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Help me.
Help me fix this.
I don't know what else to do.
I feel like I'm" --
I (b)(7)(C)
Oh, he came to you.
him out.
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
You didn't seek No.
- Yes, he came to me.
I Okay.
issue I
sought him out.
(b)(7)(C)
Right.
(b)(7):(C)
But on these other issues he came to me.
An (b)(7)(C) ecall that?
Okay.
- Well, was s something just discussed?
(b)(7)(C)
We initially talked about NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 20 giving him al (b)(7)(C)
And then we also talked about I believe she --
So from what I would call we talked about giving him aI (b)(7)(C) as a result of the deficiency in his performance.
And then we I believe changed course and said, "You know instead of giving him a (b)(7)(C) why don't we give him aI (b)(7)(C) instead."
And, in fact, I said to her, "I'm going to send you both drafts.
I'm going to send you a draft of a I (b)(7)(C) j" This is what I recall.
"And a draft of al (b)(7)(C)
-and you might want to talk t (b)(7)(C nd see which way you guys want to go on this.
But I can support either.
But I really think a (b)(7)(C)
(
would probably be the best way to go."
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Up to this point, did (b)(7)(C) :ver say anything to you about (b)(7)(C) Iraising any concerns?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
(b)(7)(C)
And I
say concerns I mean concerns about safety that might be of interest to the NRC.
(b)(7)(C)
JNo.
[Did she --
(b)(7)(C)
Because that would have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 10 i1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 21 been a red flag for me.
I'm sorry.
I didn't mean to interrupt.
(b)(7)(C)
Sure.
(b)( 7)(C) -7 1don't remember that.
(b)(7)(C)
Did she ever give you the impression that she was personally mad at(
not for his work performance but for some extraneous factors such as complaining about her managerial style or anything like that?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
But she I
do remember having the conversation with her about her disappointment in his performance.
Because when he was -- And this came about when he was initially hired as the*..
When sheI (b)(7)(C) as the BI approached her and as did a couple of other people and said to her, "Why did you (b)(7)(C and why did you (b)(7)(C)
I as a I Why would you do that?"
And she said, "Well, what do you mean?"
And we said, "He could hardly perform as an in F (b)(7)(C)
Why would you put him in this position and in this department that requires so much oversight?"
And she said, "Well, I didn't know he had performance issues."
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9 10 11 12 13 14 is 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 22 performance issues, but he just wasn't a strongf(C And she said, "Well, nobody told me."
And that conversation I think stuck with her or that feedback stuck with her.
And she really wanted to prove that "No, I made the right decision.
I know he's the right guy and I know he can do it."
So when she started seeing these performance issues with
- him, she was really disappointed.
But not personal.
L (b)(7)(C) getting back to my --
Okay.
It L(b)(7)(C)
No.
no.
But it was just she was just decision.
I I Okay.
But wasn't personal.
It wasn't personal, disappointed in that (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
So in all these conversations that you had with (b)(7)(C) regardin (b)(7)(C) t was nothing more thani (b)(7)(C) work performance and how he wasn't meeting expectations.
(b)(7)(C)
I Right.
I (b)(7)(C)
I You didn't get the feeling that it was something more than that.
L (b)(7)ý(c)
[No.
And if I did, I would have called her out on it.
No.
(b)(7)(C)
Now you sent her NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 12 12 1 3 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the draft And do you notes.
and a draft of the (b)(7)(C) remember when that took place about?
(b)(7)(C)
I No, but I can reference my (b)(7)(C)
- Yeah, if you don't mind.
(b)()(C)okay.
(b)(7)(C)
We could go off the record if you want.
(b)(7)(C)
Your call.
(b)(7)(C)
Go off the record for a moment.
(b)(7)(C)
Off the record.
(Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
(b)(7)(C)
I We're back on the record.
The time is approximately 1:20 p.m.
And you found that date?
I (b)(7)(C)
II did.
I found the date where I sentI (b)(7)(C)
Jan email on (b)(7)(C) and sent her a draft of(
and let her know that after she delivers it to him to please send it back to me.
And I said to her that thel (b)(7)(C) a draft will come shortly.
I don't have any email of where I sent her the actual (b)(7)(C)
I draft.
I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Thank you.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 24 After that date, what else happened?
Do you remember anything else transpiring afterward?
S (b)(7-)(C)-
Yes.
So after we decided we're going to -- rather than give him the I
(we're just going to stick to theC)
(b)(7)(C) we were just in the process of having (b)(7)(C) make the necessary changes to the draft or make whatever updates she needed to and prior to actually delivering the t(b)(7)1 (b)(7)(c)_(b)(7)(C)
I(C) Ib()C Ib(7IC called me and said that she has another concern that's come up where L (b)(7)()
I trustworthiness is in question and she wanted to discuss it with me.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And can you elaborate on that?
I I Sure.
She stated--
(c) c)tated to me that her manageri
()(7)(C) had informed her that he had just received a phone call fromI (b)(7)(c) h ho had indicated to him thatl (b)(7)(C) approachedI (b)(7)(C) iand stated to 1 (b)(7)(C) that he was having problems with (c) and wanted to get out of the department and thati (b)(7)(c) had used personal information that he actually had shared with her and had dinged him on-using the personal information in theO And cas concerned. So he calle C) (7)
(C:)(
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25 1
E b
OSS (b)(7)(C) and said, "Why would she 2
do that?
Why would she ding him on his
(
and use 3
the personal information against him?"
4 And I rememberi (b)(7)(C)
I saying to me, "At 5
that point whileI (b)(7)(C)
Jwas on the phone 6
said to him,
'Well, let me just that's not 7
what I recall seeing, but let me just pull up hisc 8
right now and I'll read it to you.'"
9 And it's my understanding that he pulled 10 up the 7 and there was no such information on the 11
()*7))[
There's no personal information that was written 12 on the (b)(7) 13 And that's whe C7)(C ontactedf 14 bc)lnd let her know about this incident.
And she 15 called me and she said, "I've had it.
Now he's lying.
16 Now I can't trust him."
17 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And what 18 happened right after that?
19 (b)(7)(C)
So after that she and I 20 talked.
And I said, "Okay.
Let's talk about this, 21 what's happened."
So we talked a little more and then 22 there were other incidents that I recalled where he 23 had committed to or had stated that he had made some -
24 he had followed direction or directive that (c)i 25 c
D ad given him when he actually hadn't.
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26 1
talked about that a little bit.
And here's another 2
incident where he's not being forthcoming.
That was 3
a separate incident with one of his direct reports.
4 And it was like "Okay.
I get you.
If 5
you're saying to me that you cannot trust him because 6
it's more than one time that you have -- that he's not 7
been forthcoming with you then I can support" --
She 8
wanted to terminate his employment.
And I said, "I
9 can support it."
10 1
(b)(7)(C)
Going back to the 11 I just have a question regarding that.
Given 12 your experience in your position, when you read what 13 was in that draft for the I2(C now obviously the 14 things that were in the were justified to be 15 documented and to show 7)(C) hortcomings and his 16 failure to meet expectations.
17 But whatever was listed in the (C) were 18 those grounds for termination by themselves?
Do you 19 understand the question?
20 I(b)(7)()
I do.
21 (b)(7)(C)
Do you want to review the 22 (C)I 23(b(7)(C)
- lNo, I glanced at it.
I 24 think those in themselves if it's an ongoing issue, 25 yes, they can be grounds for termination.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 27 this was she had addressed these issues with him and had gotten his side of the story and there always seemed to be an excuse we just gave him a (.
So to answer your question if it's an ongoing issue that's been addressed and it's not being resolved, yes.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Were you involved in any of the decision making to terminate (bC IIt sounds like you at least concurred with w(b)(7)(C) when termination was discussed.
(b)(7)(
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
IBut I mean formal deliberations about terminatingi (b)(7)(C) were you involved in that process?
(7)(C)
So the process that I was involved in related to the termination was telling her that I can support her termination, obtainingi (b)(7,C)
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
Do you remember when that conversation took place?
(b)(7)(C)
- Yes, I can reference my notes.
Sorry.
It will just take me a minute.
(b)(7)(C)
We could go back NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 3
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8 9
10 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 off the record.
record.
you rem*
took pl record if you want.
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
(Whereupon, a short rece I
(b)(7)(C)
The time is approximately 1 ember the date this conversati ace?
I Sure.
Off the
-ss was taken.)
We're back on the
- 30 p.m.
And do on with (b)(7)(C) the
]
tEI
)kI
- Well, you said that you had a discussion wit ZaboutI]
L EI(C And you were talking about the
()and
-the (b)(7)(C)
And then it recommended (b)(7)(C)
Sorry.
And then later on you discussed whether or not he should be terminated.
That conversation.
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
That happened on or about (b)(7)(C) l(b)(7)()
--- ]All right.
Thank you.
Now up to that point were you personally ever aware that (b)(7)(C) raised any concerns to the Employee Concerns Program here on site?
(b)(7)(C) lNo, I was not.
(b)(7)(C)
Up to that point NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 10 i1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 29 and we' re talking about (b)(7)(C) were you ever aware thati (b)(7)(C) aised any concerns to the NRC?
b)(7)():)
- 7)
No, I was not.
I (b)(7)(C)
Up to this point, did you have any conversations withl (b)(7)(C) about
)
complaining about employees being told to go through the chain of command whenever they raise any sort of concern?
(b)(7)(C)
Can you ask one more time?
I (b)(7)(C)
Sure.
On or about (b)(7)(C) were you aware tha (b)(7)(C) or through your conversations with (b)(7)(C) were you aware that (b)(7(c) c complained about employees being told to go through the chain of command whenever they raise a concern or issue?
(b)(7)()
I don't recall.
(b()C)
(b)(7)(C)
Did you ever hear (b)(7)(C)
Just a second.
I think she's thinking.
(b)(7)(C)
IHm-hm (yes).
(b)(7)(C) jOkay.
(b)(7)(C)
It sounds familiar.
(b)(7)(C)
I could try to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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i0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 refresh your memory a little bit.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
There was a
concern thatjc (b()C ad.and it involvedi
()I)C)
(b)()(C)(b)()(C) yes.
__(b)(7)I (b)(7)(C)
According to (C)
((Ihe heard from rank and file employees that b7Curing a meeting --
I think it's what you call maybe a standup meeting or something like that.
(b)(7)(C)
IHm -hm.
(b)(7)(C)
She said, "If anyone has any concerns please bring them up to management.
We prefer that you bring them to management.
And bring them through the chain of command before you raise them to anyone else."
(b)(7)(C)
I do recall that.
(b)(7)(C)
I Do you remember I
anything of that nature?
I I do recall that, but I also --
I recall that being mentioned, but I don't recall being involved in resolving that.
(b)(7XC)
Do you remember when you first heard about this?
(b)(7)(C)
I Oh my gosh, I don' t.
I just remember -- Because that was not really an issue NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 10 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 31 I would have gotten involved with anyway.
It would be an ECP issue.
So I don't remember when I heard it.
But I do remember that came up becaus
()7C ent out a notice concerning why would she say something like that.
I (b)(7)(C)
I Where l
hear that from?
I (b)(7)(c)
IOh my goodness.
recall.
Sorry.
I(b)(7)(C)
I okay.
did you I don' t Did you wa~c hear that I don't think it we're going aren't as r (b)(7)(C) back a little ways and peo]
)recise as they wish them to I
(b)(7)(C)
II' m sorry.
Okay.
I know pie's memories be.
(b)(7)(C)
But is it possible that you could have heard about this after (b)(7)(C) as terminated?
(b)(I)(C)
I know that afte (b)(7)(C) was terminated I became -- After he was terminated I became aware of the ECP concern.
I (b)(7)(C)
I The ECP concern I
being what?
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up-9---som
-IF 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 32 (b)(7)(C)
That (b)(7) concern.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
(But I don't remember it being discussed as part of the or as having to do anything with I (b)(7)(C) lif that makes sense.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
- Yes, it does.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
It was never mentioned.
( It had nothing to do with It was (b)(7)(C) issue. And I remember talking about it t
(b)(7C rom ECP as this is something she had said and what we're going to do to go back and correct it.
I do recall that.
So I'm trying to make a connection to (b)(7)(C) c1 And I had nothing to do with him.
I (b)(7)(C)
I Okay.
So the decisions made that --
Let me back up and just be a little more clear in my question.
You learned from talking withI (b)(7)(C)
-hat she was going to initiate termination proceedings against (b)(7)(C)
Correct?
J
~Ye s.
(b)(7)(C)
Y s (b)(7)(C)
All right.
From that point on, were you involved in any formal process NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 3
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8 9
10 12 leading to his termination?
(b)(7)(C)
In (b)(7)(C) yes (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Can you explain to me what is a is and I believe that's an an I
(b)(7(C)7)(C)
- Yes, it's ani (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And what' s your role in that process?
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (b)(7)(C)
I My role is to answer questions about the discipline that was being recommended and to answer questions as to whether or not it's consistent with company practices and consistent with the rest of the organization.
I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And can you explain to me what in a nutshell transpired as a result of that proceeding?
I Sure.
There were I
believe that was ourl (b)(7)(C)
So it was kind of a learning process and it was a pretty long one.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 34 And so there were discussions about how we got to where we are as it relates to the termination.
There was discussions about the (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) land why we skipped the (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(
and went straight to termination.
I do remember there being a long conversation about that.
And then just the termination recommendation.
(b)(7)(C)
How often does a termination take place without a being issued beforehand?
Can you give me like a percentage basis how often that happens?
[ Just off the top of my head I'd say --
I (b)(7)(C)
What may be problematic is that the (c) process is fairly new.
So you might want to talk about when they even instituted having [*)
So when you talk about the numbers it's important about what period of time you're talking about.
I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
I wasn't aware that the b)( process was fairly young here.
When did they start the --
(b)(7=)
2008.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
- Well, would it be uncommon to terminate someone who wasn't given the benefit of a (C
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10
- Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I
(b)(7)(C)ý.lNo.
(b)(7)(C)
But it was a big issue during the E I though.
Right?
(b)(7)(C)
I
- Yes, it was because normally we would give somebody who's having performance issues a I (b)(7)(C) because that was a site directive if you will that was given by, (b)(7)(C) at the time.
I (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And what was the primary reason --
Basically summing up your testimony here, what was the principal reason whym )
as not given a (b)(7) in this case?
(C)
I (b)(7)(C)
I We had every intention to give him a (b)
Prior to the (C) was ready to be delivered to him, prior to actually delivering i: to him, we came to this additional information of him not being truthful which came into question, brought into question, his trustworthiness.
So we skipped theIZ)i7 process which is at the discretion of management to do.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Did anything happen after the (b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
Do you mean related, to any (b)(7)(C)
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(
or any proceedings leading to his termination.
I (b)(7)(C)
INo.
We just moved forward with -- As far as I recail we moved forward with i
C)equesting his final check.
I(b7)(C)
Okay.
And he was subsequently terminated.
Correct?
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
II Have you had any contact with (b)(7)(C) 0 ince he left his position here?
S (b)(7)(C)
No, I have not.
(b)(7)(C)
Through all your conversations wit (b)(7)(C)
JZ nd other people here on
- site, did you ever become aware of (b)(7)(C)
Jeing discriminated against in any fashion while he was here?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
I b)(7)(C)
(b)7()]
do you have any follow-up?
I (b)(7)(C)
IYes.
You said during this and in your earlier conversation with (b)(7)(C)
J here was discussion about trustworthiness issues.
Have you described all of the trustworthiness issues that came up?
(b)(7)(C)
I briefly described the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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37 1
other issue in addition to him not being truthful 2
about what was written in his W to (b)(7)(C) 3 There was another issue where he was not 4
being truthful about the level of support, guidance s
and direction he had given to one of his employees.
6 He told us, us as inI (b)(7)(C)
He told I (b)(7)(C) 7 that he had provided adequate support and guidance and 8
direction to one of his employees during a suspension.
9 And we came to find out that he did not in fact do 10 that.
And he left a brand new supervisor to carry out ii a really difficult suspension all by herself without 12 any guidance.
13 1
(b)(7)(C)
Was there also an issue 14 about a demotion?
15 (b)(7)(7)
Yes.
And there's a 16 Yes, he committed to processing a demotion and there 17 is constant follow-up.
"Yes, I got it done."
"I'll 18 do it.
I'll do it."
And then finally I remember 19 there was a statement that he made "Yes, I already 20 processed the demotion."
21 AndI (D)(7)(C) ame to find out that he 22 hadn't.
And this person ended up being overpaid.
And 23 his pay was not taken away from him as a result of 24 (b)(7)(C)
I ot processing the demotion.
So we ended up 25 this man never took a pay cut.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 38 and take a pay cut so many months after since the demotion wasn't processed.
I (b)(7)(C)
II'm just trying to see if there is anything else that --
I (b)(7)(C)
Can I throw in a
I r
question in the meantime?
(
)(C I Sure.
(b)(7)(C)
Was there a
termination letter associated withi (b)(7)(C)
I know that HR likes to send out letters telling people that they were terminated even though they might have been walked off the site.
Was that done in this case?
I (b)(7)(C)
I No.
We normally don't do that.
It's not our process.
I (b)(7)(C)
Oh really.
Okay.
All right.
Different companies do it differently I suppose.
But there was no formal termination letter telling him you were terminated because of A, B and C.
S (b)(7)(C)
No.
/7 That only occurs when someone doesn't show up for the termination meeting or we don't want them to be here for a termination meeting or they've abandoned the position.
I (b)(7)(C)
I Honestly, I think I was thinking of a different utility.
Not SCE.
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39 1
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
Was (b)(7)(C) 2 involved in the discussions concerning termination?
3 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
4 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And what was his 5
role?
6 (b)(7)(C)
His role was in supporting 7
the termination and also supporting the process of 8
skipping giving him a
b)(71) and moving straight to (C) mvn tagtt 9
termination.
10 (b)(7)(
Did he have concerns about I(b)(7)(C) in his performance or trustworthiness that 12 were separate from (b)(7)(
based on your 13 discussions with him?
114 (b)(7)C Yes, he had concerns about 15 (b)(7)(C) jagain not from a performance perspective.
16 He had asked several times for a report and (b)(7)(C) 17 committed to giving it to him and did not deliver 18 several times.
19 1
(b)(7)(C)
And was that part of the 20 reason for the termination fol b)m)C)7 21 (b)(7)(C)
That was part of the 22 overall reason.
Yes.
23 (b)(7)(C)
When you were describing 24 the trustworthiness issue one of not supporting one of 25 his supervisors how was I didn't understand how NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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that was a trustworthiness issue.
Could you explain 2
that?
How it showed to be untrustworthy?
3 (b)(7)(
Yes.
So in the meeting 4
with myself, (b)(7)(C) nd this new supervisor, we had 5
previously discussed that[
(b)(7)(C) as going to lead 6
the suspension.
He was going to be the one that 7
delivers the suspension to the employee being 8
suspended and that the new supervisor would observe 9
him and learn from it because this was her first time.
10 And that was already agreed upon and committed to.
11 So while we were in the meeting I was just 12
-- We were just role-playing and during the meeting he 13 looked at his supervisor.
Her name isi (b)(7)(
14 And he said, "So,i (b)(7)(C) are you ready to do this?"
15 And (b)(7)(C) tated, "I thought we already 16 talked about this and you're going to do this.'
17 And he was like --
You know his response 18 was "Oh, we did.
Well, no, I thought you wanted to do 19 it.,"
20 And she said, "No.
I've never done one 21 before.
I thought" 22 So she looked at me and I had to jump in 23 because this was her manager.
I had to jump in and 24 say, EIbc e already agreed that you're going to do 25 this.
You can't let her run this suspension and it's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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a difficult one, a difficult employee.
You've got to 2
take the lead."
3 And he finally agreed to do it.
And 4
during the suspension the employee ended up 5
(b)(7)(C) 7 and it turned out to be a big issue.
6 The fire department was called in and he took a back 7
seat I felt like to the whole situation in that 8
(((
and I ended up handling it.
9 So this brand new supervisor and I ended 10 up handling this employee who'sI(b)(7)(C)
And 11 he, (b)(7)(C) ended up leaving after taking my 12 direction to "Don't stand there.
Go call a cab 13 company.
She wants to go home.
Let's let her go 14 home, but she can't drive.
So can you -- Don't stand 15 there.
Go call a cab."
16 And he called the cab and he left the 17 site.
So that was a little bit of it.
18 As far as trustworthiness, he was also 19 supposed to have prepped
()
upon the return of 20 this employee from suspension.
He was supposed to 21 have prepped C)and mentored and guided her in 22 how do you have a
reinstatement meeting from a
23 suspension, what do you say, what do you do.
And he 24 had committed that he had done that.
25 And (b)(7)(C)
I ended up doing the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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42 1
reinstatement meeting and she had not been prepped.
2 But he tol)d (b)(7)(C)
, "Yes, I've prepped (b)(7)(C) nd 3
I've told her what to say."
4 And he had not done that because (b)(7)(C) 5 said, "He leftl (b)(7)(C)
Iand did not say a word to 6
me about this reinstatement."
So again she ended up 7
having to do --
A brand new supervisor has never done 8
this before ended up having to do it on her own.
9 So it was an accumulation of --
There is 10 no trustworthiness issue during the suspension.
But 11 it was like "Hey, why are you trying to throw it on 12 her?"
13 But then it was after for the 14 reinstatement when he said, "Yeah, I already gave her 15 the direction" when he hadn't.
It was again an 16 accumulation of issues.
17 (b)(
So I don't think you 18 articulated why you were okay -- Let me back up.
You 19 said that there was quite a bit of discussion during 20 the c)meeting --
21 (b)(7)(C)
Hm-hm.
22 (b)(7)(C) about why they were 23 skipping a
(b)(7)(C) and went 24 straight to termination.
So what did you tell them 25 was the reason that you supported the management doing NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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43 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 24 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that?
(
I stated to them that although it's a site directive from (b)(7)(C) 1 that if you have a needs improvement as an overall rating that you get a L)7
- however, it is also at the manager's discretion to skip that step if the behavior or performance is egregious enough to warrant it.
I (b)(7)()
And did you believe that in this case it was warranted?
I (b)(7)C)
Absolutely.
S (b)(7)(¢)
Who told you that it was management discretion when there was a directive from S(b)(7)(C)
((
Our policy states that --
Our progressive discipline policy states that it's that manager's discretion to skip that's at any point if the behavior or the performance is egregious enough.
But it was not -- That piece was not written in the directive thatI (b)(7)(C) lsent.
And in fact afterwards for the following year we went back and added that step in there or that sentence in there that it's at manager's discretion.
- Yes, although we want to give(b)(7) t people every time they get anj [c it's at manager's discretion to skip that step.
So that step is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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- m*mI....
1 2
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 understooc further.
44
- 1. It just was not written.
S (b)(7E(C) ýI don't have anything I
(b)(7)(C)
J At the risk of sounding like a broken record, I want to ask you another question before we conclude here today.
And I appreciate you taking time out to meet with us and answering my questions.
During this whole process with (b)(7)(C) and the talk about placing him on a
()7)and then lyou discussed termination about him and everything, did you ever get the impression -- we'll call it woman's intuition that maybe there was some type of external factors involve, more than just his work performance, that got him terminated?
(b)(7)(C)
IWNo.
hesitated.
((
I hesitate because in one of my conversations with him he did mention to me some stressors that he had outside of work, some personal issues that he was going through.
But that's something that he had mentioned to me and I thought that was in confidence based on our relationship.
But that did not play a role into why he got terminated.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 45 (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
Separating (b) nd his situation aside, did you ever get the impression from talking with people here on site, especially management, that maybe they wanted him out of off site because of something other than his work performance?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
S(b)(7)(C) have I or any other NRC representative threatened you in any manner or offered you any rewards in return for this statement?
(b)(7)(C)
No.
(b)(7)(C)
I Have you given this statement freely and voluntarily?
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C)
Is there additional information that you care to add for the record?
(b)(7)(C)
INO.
F (b)(7)(C)
At this time, the interview will be concluded.
The time is approximately 1:55 p.m.
Off the record.
(Whereupon, at 1:55 p.m.,
the above-entitled matter was concluded.)
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q4
'A h/cc CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding:[
Docket Number:
Location:
Interview of (b)(7)(C) 4-2011-059 San Ciemente, II California were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape(s) provided by the NRC.
(b)(7)(C) dOicial Transcriber Neal R.
Gross & Co.,
Inc.
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