ML12275A514
| ML12275A514 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | San Onofre  |
| Issue date: | 09/28/2011 |
| From: | NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| References | |
| FOIA/PA-2012-0185, 4-2011-024 | |
| Download: ML12275A514 (43) | |
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10 11 12 13 14 15 26 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS INTERVIEW
-~x ER OF:
F 01 Case No.
4-2011-024 IN THE MATT INTERVIEW 0 (b)(7)(C)
I (CLOSED) x Wednesday, September 28, 2011 San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station San Clemente, California The above-entitled interview was conducted at 9:04 a.m.)
BEFORE:
[Senior Special Agentif K(7)(c)
[pecial Agent I(b)(7)(C)
OFY____3
- --2011-02 4
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-i7c 2
I P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2
9:04 a.m.
3 9R. SPEC.
AGENT I(b)(7)(C)
For the 4
record, this is an interview of I(b)(7)(C) 5 who is employed by Southern California Edison.
6 Today's date is September 28, 2011.
And the time is 7
approximately 9:04 a.m.
8 This interview is being conducted at San 9
Onofre Nuclear Generation Station.
10
)7))
7 my name is 1(b)(7)(C) j ii I'm a Ppecial Ageng with the Office of Investigations 12 out of Region IV --
I(b)(7)(C) 13 Okay.
14
[SR. SPEC.
AGEN for the 15 NRC.
Also present is [special Agent I(b)(7)(C) 16 This interview is being recorded and a 17 transcript is gping to be produced of this recording.
18 I need to ask you, do you have any recording devices 19 on you?
J(b)(7)(C)J 20 No.
I don't.
21 SR. SPEC.
AGENTI[b)(7)(C)
Okay.
And the 22 purpose of this interview is to discuss issues or (b)(7)(C) 23 allegations raised byy of retaliation 24 by Southern California Edison.
Okay?
(b)(7)(C) 25 okay.
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C-K-
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SR.
SPEC.
AGENT
)(7)(c)
-I Okay.
Would you raise your right hand, sir?
Do you swear the information you're about to provide will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God?
(b)(7)(C)
I1 I do.
[SR. SPEC.
AGENTL
_J Okay. Could you state and spell your full name for the recordiIZ)
(b)(7)(C)
J(b')(7)(C)
Yes.
(7) middle name i sf*7**
I last name 77 I
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT *rE(C)
Okay All right.
[
J can you go over your employment background here at
- SONGS, how long you've been employed and which positions you've held here?
(b)(7)(C)
[R. SPEC.
AGENTI(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
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[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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[SR. SPEC. AGENT7I 7
WOW We're going to break here just a minute it's 9:06 a.m.
to change the batteries in the recorder.
(Whereupon, at 9:06 a.m. off the record until 9:09 a.m.)
[SR. SPEC. AGENT (b)(7)(C)
We're back on record.
It's approximately 9:09 a.m. just changed the batteries.
Okay.
(b)(7)(C) you went over your employment history.
And what's your current position here, sir?
(b)(7)(C)
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-7r, 6
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTI11)(7)(C)
Right.
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[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
ýb)(7)(C) don't know ER. SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
((b)(7)(C) cI There are some people who I what their their grades are.
They're NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1
more like a supervisory, I mean supervisory assistant 2
class. They do word processing, other items like that 3
a --
a person with more technical experience doesn't 4
have.
5 LSR. SPEC.
AGENT 1(b)(7)(c-Okay.
Okay.
6 7)(C)The same level of pay for me 7
anyway.
8 VR. SPEC.
AGENTZ1b)7)C Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 9 r
And I believe that everyone 10 came over that way.
(b)(7)(C) 11 last year, earlier this year 12 actually.
13 ISR.
SPEC.
AGENT 1 Okay.
14 do you know()(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C) 15 Yes.
16
[SR. SPEC.
AGENý(b)(7)(c, How do you --
17 I've known for a long 18 time.
19
[SR. SPEC. AGENTL)7)!
Okay.
And how 20 do you know him, sir, as a co-worker?
l(b)(7)(C) 21 1
Yes.
I first met him when he 22 was in Z(b)(7)(c) just in normal business, you know.
23 And I - -
I was in contact with him numerous times when 24 he was thel (b)(7)(c) 25 ER.
SPEC. AGENT))(c)
Okay.
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8 1
And we always got along well.
2 And then he -- he was in[7 primarily and then 3
he was transferred over to the (b)(7)(C) 4
[SR. SPEC. AGENT 11)(7)(C)
Okay.
And did 5
you at any time every supervise
)(7)(C) 6 (b)(7)(c)
I look over his 7
I(b)(7)(c)
We're both the same level --
8
[SR.
SPEC. AGENTZ1l(7()
ky 9
()7()-
but he I b()C 10 (b)(7)(C)
I really don't anymore.
Because ii this other takes up all of my time but I look at his 12 17)(C)
That's really the only supervision I do 13 of his in peer check but that I think is completed 14 work.
15 CSR. SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(c)
And what kind 16 of an employee do you conside_7 to be?
17
° b
I I think he's a good 18 employee.
The stuff I see of his is of good quality.
19 He always seems to make his due dates, or on or 20 before.
Excuse my stomach it's he's --
I like 21 quite a bit.
He's "outspoken but that's okay 22 with me --
23
@SR. SPEC. AO:ENTZ7 Okay.
24 you know.
He was a 25 b
so he's, you know, he's not afraid to speak NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 I
his piece.
2
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT l(b)(7)(C)
Right.
3 n
7 And -- but -- excuse me --
I 4
think that's okay.
And he's not afraid to say that he 5
thinks something's wrong if it's wrong.
6
{SR. SPEC. AGENTEI Okay.
7 (b)(7)(c)
And that's what we're supposed 8
to do here so--
9 LSR.
SPEC.
AGENTIL(b)(7)(C)
Do you know I(b)(7)(c) 10 to raise safety concerns through your 11 supervision?
12 Yes. I do.
- Yes, I do.
I was 13 aware of that.
That's happened more than one time.
14 SR-, SPEC.
AGENTIT(b)(7I(c I
Okay.
15 There was an employee, you 16 probably have the records here[
J there were 17 a couple of safe concerns at that time.
And who 18 I also knew --
he was asked to change alb)(7)(C)
I at 19 management direction and he thought it was not proper.
20
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT1(b)(7)(C) 21 did orj
)(7)(C) did?
22 (b)(7)(C) did.
23 ISR.
SPEC.
AGENT J)(7)(C) okay.
24 b)(7)(C)
And he was told again to 25 proceed.
He --
he didn't want to do it.
Finally he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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-1 10 1
was made to do it and after that time he was, well I 2
could say, pretty much done for.
He was harassed.
He 3
finally(7 because he was too stressed anymore to 4
work.
5 And at that time there were other concerns 6
too.
We were concerned that management was paying 7
more attention to -- to the oversight groups that were 8
here than --
than they should have.
And we were 9
dictated to as to where we were going to make fixes 10 and what we were going to say in I(b)(7)(C) even 11 though we often thought that they weren't appropriate.
12
- And, you know, I
know we're not to use the word 13 "pencil-whipped." but that's what we're doing in many 14 cases.
15 And at the time, and it still is the same, 16 when things are changed like that we're never 17 consulted, "wel being the people that have a little 18 more experience at that, as to whether it's a good 19 idea, whether it'll work, or do we have a better idea.
20 And that -- that irke'(b)(7)(C)
He has -- I'm not
~~)(jj hs -
I'mnotprivy 21 to all of things he's -- I don't know how many of the 22 things he's objected to.
23
@R. SPEC.
AGENTIZ(b)(7)(c)
Okay.
24 But I know a couple of years 25
- ago, a year and a half ago, the group wanted to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 organize and become union.
And wanted to do 2
that and he passed out the cards that said do you want 3
to or not, you know,. that type of thing.
And I know 4
he was -- I know that didn't sit well with management.
5 And things kept accumulating like that and, like I 6
- say, would speak his piece.
7 (SR. SPEC.
AGENTE1b)(7)(c)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 8 And that's supposed.to be 9
okay, you know.
You're supposed to be able to bring 10 up concerns. And I personally, my observation is that 11 he's been discriminated against.
And now I see he was 12
- always, like I say, a very good worker.
This last 13 year he got a really terrible performance review.
14 It's like all needs to improve, type of thing.
1s
[SR. SPEC. AGENTJ ()7C
-1okay.
16 And he -- he'd only received 17 one of those, a negative one before with a person who 18 doesn't like him.
That was back when he was in 19 (b)(7)(c)
-1 think, 2007.
And from my experience and 20 watching him work he has a good work ethic, turns out 21 good products, doesn't give anybody in the office a 22 hard time.
I think that that was --
that that was 23 forced on the supervisor, his immediate supervisor.
24
[SR. SPEC.
AGENTc(b)(7)(c) 7 You mean to 25 give him a bad appraisal?
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-7c 12 1
(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
2 5R. SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(c)O Okay.
3 (b)(7)(C)
I And I think that was done on 4
purpose so they could lay a path to --
to give him a 5
hard time.
6 PR. SPEC.
AGENT1(b)(7)(c)
Okay.
7 1
(b)(7)(C)
IAnd I know he's under a lot of 8
pressure right now and he thinks he's probably done 9
for, you know, as far as an employee.
But he didn't 10 deserve that performance review like that.
I saw that 11 happen with a
supervisor when we were still in I(b)(7)(c) 12 with a couple of other people.
13
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT Z
(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 14 A
And those people are now gone.
15 We've lost a number of people out to stress and I 16 don't know how many, maybe four or five contractors, 17 three or four like permanent employees.
18
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT Ib)(7)(c)
Is it a
19 personality clash, you believe, that they don't like 20 him or they don't like each other or they don't like 21 the way he presents things or --
I(b)(7)(C) 22 Well I mean there's d(b)(7)(C) 23 there is the department head, he an clash.
24
[R. SPEC.
AGENT b)(7)(c)
And who is 25 that, sir?
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C 13 1
(b)(7)(C)
Pardon me?
2
ýR.
SPEC.
AGENTI(b)(7)(c)
Who's the 3
department head?
4 (b)(7)(C)
He and [b)(7)(c)J clash.
5 And like I say, I7)(c) outspoken and he usually does 6
it in private.
He doesn't do it in public.
But if 7
they meet they usually end up in, you know, -in an 8
argument.
And[b){7(c) ill b)7(
tell him -- tell him 9
what he thinks and what he thinks of management.
10 1 haven't I
haven't observed one of those but 11 told me "Well we had a hard time, you know.'"
12 1 thin just doesn't lik you know.
13
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTrb)(7)(c)
Okay.
14 I(b)(7)(C) lAndb)(7_)(C) could like to see, 15 he would like to see the organization run differently 16 and not --
see it run efficiently and not --
not just 17 respond to demands that we do something in our 18 procedures when he knows it's wrong.
19 SR. SPEC. AGENTZ(b(7)(C Okay.
20
(
T)(7)(C) That that's not the cure, you 21 know, and he'll
-- he's displeased with that that type 22 of thing.
Because like I say, he was --
he was an 23 (b)(7(C)
Iand he liked organization 24 and he doesn't see it sometimes.
He just sees passing 25 on of, you know, things to do and say.
And I know j
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-- 1 C..
14 1
wants to make the department successful and look good 2
too.
And jwT7)(c)
-ould like to see those efforts to be 3
sincere, not just to please somebody.
4
[R.
SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C) 5 were you working, or I guess you were working with 6
in 2010, for the last year?
7 Yes.
Yes.
I was not here 8
from fromr(7)(c)
I had someE7c 9 lbx)(c)(CI 9
L~
I(b)(7)(c) 10 IR. SPEC.
AGENT J
Okay.
1i1 (b)(7)(C) 12
- R.
SPEC.
AGENT 111)()(C)
Okay.
Were 13 you--
(ib)(7)(C)I 14 7
1 That's when I worked at the 15 (inaudible) after that.
16
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT r )(7)(C)
Okay.
Were 17 you aware that had raised a
concern 18 regarding a unqualified person put in]--
19 Yes.
19
~
(b)(7)(C)
Ys 20
[SR. SPEC. AGENT(c)
-- to fill in 21 for Mr.
I~)(7)(C)i 22 I
Yes.
I was.
23 ER.
SPEC.
AGENT I(b)(7)(C) 24
)Okay.
25 I was.
I mean I am, yes.
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[R. SPEC. AGENT1b)(7)(C)
All right.
Do 2
you recall who that employee was?
3 I(b)(7)(C)
Yes.
I do.
4
[R. SPEC. AGENT)7)
Okay.
5 (Yes.
6
- R.
SPEC.
AGENTII(b)(c)
And who was 7
that employee?
8(b)(7)(C) 8 1
9 FR. SPEC.
AGENTI7I Okay.
10 (b)(7)(C)
She was fairly new.
She was 11 out of a she was a
(b)(7)(c) but she's 12 primarily a was a an after the I b)(7)(c) 13 r(b)(C)
Then we hired her in 14 and i think she worked out well.
She's aI)(7)(c) 15
(
And she doesn't have a lot of experience but we've 16 been trying to bring her along and she's a fast 17 learner.
I likb I
is
[SR. SPEC.
AGENTII(b)(7)(c)
Okay.
19 But that --
I wasn't present 20 at that time but --
I was off work, but I kno 21 didn't think that was right.
Yes, and he, told 22 me that he raised objections.
He didn't think she was 23 qualified to supervise the rest of us because there 24 were three I(T7c) i there at that time.
Like I 25 say, I was absent but there were two others; and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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r C 16 (b)7)(C) 1 andl7 And he thought one of --
one of 2
those two should have been appointed as the supervisor 3
even a temporary one.
4
[SR. SPEC. AGENT[b(b7)C)
Is that right?
I~,7)(C) 5 rHe didn't think she was 6
qualified to supervise.
C Okay.
And at 8
the timw4b)(7)(c) was asked to fill in as supervisor 9
do you feel she was qualified to do so?
10 No.
She wasn't qualified to 11 be the supervisor of the crew.
12 PR. SPEC. AGENTZI).
Okay.
13 I She knows --
she knows the --
14 she knows all about doing the I(b)(7)(c) and all but 15 she's our go-to person for
- problems, make the I(b)(7)(c) 16 She's taking --
she's 17
- learning, like I
try I
try to help her along 18 technically with maintenance items too so she kind of 19 understands where she's going.
And she responds well 20 to requests for --
for changes from the maintenance 21 line organization.
So she's -- she's coming along.
22
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
I(b)(7)(C) 23 She at that time though -- she 24 was not, she's not now, you know, takes a long time to 25 be able to do that.
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V, 1
2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 17 ISR.
SPEC.
AGENT 1 Okay.
Are there any procedures in place that you're aware of that says someone has to be qualified to a certain extent to fill in as a supervisor when a supervisor not in audit or it could be a supervisor's choice?
(7)(C)
II would --
I'll have to guess at that.
I would say there are but I don't I'd have to do some kind of a search for them.
It's probably more like a directive, you know.
There's one that talks about responsibilities and that may be the place:
I don't think I've ever read that but --
- R.
SPEC. AGENTZC Okay.
7 ))
I'm certain there is one somewhere.
- R.
SPEC. AGENTE (b)(7)(o) okay.
And she filled in forlE(b)(7)(c) is that correct?
When he was not there, jI'm talking about?
b)(7)(c)
Yes.
(b)(7)(C) yes.
- R. SPEC.
AGENT 1(b)(7)(C)
She took the spot for F)I Yes.
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(c) am I saying it right?
I (b)(7)(C)
-1 Yes.
It's I(b)(7)(C)
(b)(7)(C)
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2 3
4
.5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I R. SPEC. AGENT 1(b)(7)(C)
I(b)(7)(C)
I What process does he normally use when he picks a supervisor, to fill in supervisor when he's not there.
[bc j
Well, he's not there anymore.
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C)
When he was, when he was?
I (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
When he was.
He would usually have me fill in for him.
[SR. SPEC. AGENT II And what does that mean, sir?
(b)(7)(C)
I would do what he usually does.
[SR. SPEC. AGENT II Okay.
And --
~b)(7)(C)
-1 i wouldn't go to the cause assessment different groups where you go -- go testify or try to present your case.
That would usually be 1()7)(c) done by But I took care of the people.
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT I(b)(7)(C)
Well I'm talking about whenever he needed a supervisor to fill in for him when he wasn't there.
(b)(7)(C)Ok y
Okay.
[SR.
SPEC. AGENTI)c)
How would he go through that process?
What would he do?
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19 1
Well he he would always 2
mention it to me, if you think about it, but he told 3
me when he's gone he always wants me to --
always 4
wanted me to substitute for him.
5 DR. SPEC. AGENT(C)
Okay. Do o 6
know what reason he had for picking
)
at that 7
time?
8 17IC)No.
No, I don't.
Like I say, 9
I wasn't I wasn't present at that time but that 10 surprised me when I heard that.
11
[SR.
SPEC.
AGSNT II Okay.
12 There were other people who 13 were who were actually had the supervisory 14 experience.
15
ýR. SPEC. AGENTZ I
Okay.
16(b)(7)(C)
And it surprised me that he 17 would pick 18
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT I1m)7)(c)
Okay.
19 That's not to say against 20 but she just didn't have the experience to do 21 that.
22
[SR.
SPEC. AGENTI7 L
Okay.
Do you 23 know from your experience in working with 24 (b)(7)(C)
-if he had a list of people he'd choose 25 from or people approached him saying "When you're not NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1
here I want to fill in for you."
How --
2
]~(b)(7)(C)
N.
2
-1No.
3 ISR.
SPEC.
AGENT b)(7)(c)--
did that 4
process 5
r5)(7)(C)
[No. He always --
he expected 6
me to--
7
[SR.
SPEC. AGENT')(c)
Expected you?
8 b7)(C)
Yes.
lf)7(C) 9 VR.
SPEC. AGENT[
Okay.
10 To substitute for him.
11 R.SPEC. AGENTI And if you 12 weren't there, weren't available, would he go to 13 someone else?
14 1 )(7)(C)
Yes.
Usually.
Usually he 15 would ask either --
eithedZ(b)(7)(C) would just do that 16 because we kind work on our own, you know.
I mean 17 it's not like they have usually immediate problems 18 that they have to be solved right now.
A few, but --
19
[SR. SPEC. AGENT(c)
Okay.
20 I think_
ould usually 21 ask somebody else or he'd askk I mean --
22 I(b)(7)(C) i 23 PR. SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(c)
Okay.
Do you 24 know it he ever asked(
jto fill in?
l~)(7)(C) 25
[
j I don't believe so.
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-7O 21 1
ER.
SPEC.
AGENTE:!!7-(cc Okay.
Do you 2
know if b)(7)(C) had any interest in filling in for 3
a supervisor for him?
4 Yes.
He would if if he 5
knows he's qualified and he would take the assignment.
6 S R. SPEC. AGENT 11)7()Well do you 7
know if he ever went --
8 I don't think he's ever been 9
approached to do that.
10
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT[!7)c()
Okay.
Do you 11 know of he ever approached" bout that 12 or just said. "I'm here if you need me."
13 (b)(7)(C)
I.don't know if he approached 14 him specifically for that.
He's approached him for 15 some of the other issues that have been ongoing for 16 some time.
really didn't think that was 17 qualified to run the group.
18
- R.
SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
19
[
j He thought he was just a -- he 20 thought thatL-icked him so that --
how can I say 21 this?
He --
knew that he would take care of --
22 that we would do what he told him to do.
23 R.
SPEC. AGENTII Okay.
He know 24 thatr C) kould do whatever [ (
told 25 him to do?
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1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 12 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 22 I(b)(7)(c)
I Y s Yes.
[SR.
SPEC. AGENTIb)(7)(CI Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
And I think that's how that --
well I know that.
I mean, I didn't watch him do it but I know that's how that bad performance review came about.
ER. SPEC.
AGENT (7)(c)
Okay.
And I
think the bad performance review in my opinion is laying ground for future disciplinary actions VR. SPEC.
AGENT ()(7)Cc)
Okay.
S)(7)(C)
-- which were going to come no matter what PR. SPEC.
AGENým(b)(7)(C)
Did --
I(b)(7)(C)
I--
work ethic was.
- R.
SPEC.
AGENT
)(z)(C)
I'm sorry.
Did you notice a change between and LI....7.....1 relationship after he raised a concern about j7UFc 1 filling in for (b)(7)(¢)
No.
I wasn't --
I was F)
(b)(7)(C) time so I didn't see that develop.
When I came back that was pretty much not subject conversation around the site.
No.
I didn't really observe how that --
SR.
SPEC.
AGENT 1(7)(C)
Let me NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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23 1
rephrase the question then.
Did you notice a change 2
in their relationship from before I(b)(7)(C) 3 (b)(7)(C) 4 Was there a change in their relationship?
5 (b)(7)(C)
Yes.
I~)7)(C) 6
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT I
How so?
7 7)C) it seemed to be conflicting 8
like this
-- they'd just take care of business.
[1(b)(7)(C) l 9
would always take care of wha told him to do and 10 also takes on work because he does a lot of the 11 (b)(7)(C)
And he's very good at that 12 craft, he supervised that group for a long time, and 13 so he would work directly at the r 7)(C) 14 request.
We do that some.
They'll 15 contact the people they know can do the job.
16 And I didn't see, I really didn't see any 17 conflict; would always do that. It's not like he 18 was always doing it but he would bring his objections 19 to his supervisor behind closed doors.
He wouldn't do 20 it out in the open --
21
[SR. SPEC.
AGENTE1b)7)(c)
Okay.
22 you know, in public.
So I 23 don't know if there were one,
- two, or many, or you 24 know 25
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT
)
Right.
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24 1
-- at that time.
2
- R.
SPEC.
AGENTI(b)(7c))
7 Di (b)(7)(c) 3 ever tell you he thought he was being. discriminated or 4
retaliated against for raising concerns?
5(b)(7)(C)
Against what?
6 SR. SPEC.
AGENT [b)1711c1 Retaliated 7
against for raising concerns?
8 7
Yes.
9
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
10 i
c Yes.
11
[SR. SPEC. AGENTI And what did--
Ib(7)(C) 12 r
Yes.
More than once.
13
[SR. SPEC. AGENT)c
-I
-- did he give 14 any particular examples of what he felt he was being 15 retaliated against for?
16 Well, yes.
He thought he was 17 being retaliated against because of his efforts to 18 become unionized.
1(b)(7)(C) 19
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTII Okay.
20b)(7)(C)
When (b)(7)(C) as being Worked 21 over, he objected to that.
22 TSR.
SPEC.
AGENTIZ(b)(7)(C)
When the what, 23 I'm sorry, when the what?
24 (b)(7)(C)
When b)(7)(c) was being --
25 fSR.
SPEC.
AGENTIb)(7)(C)
Okay.
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(I 25 (b)(7)(C) 1 going through what he was 2
going through, thought that was wrong and there 3
were safety issues he thought were being ignored.
And 4
he brought that to their attention.
He --
he --
I 5
don't know a lot of the things, you know, the details 6
of them but it's been kind of an ongoing battle since 7
that time.
8
[R. SPEC.
AGENT1(b)(7)(c)O All right.
()(7)(C) 9 And I could never figure that 10 out because my observations have always been that 11 been a good worker, you know.
I know right 12 now he's really stressed out because of the pressures 13 that are put on him.
14 There's another employee now that appears I(b)(7)(C) 15 to be the next target, (phonetic) is his 16 name. Fjis a --
I lik too I -- he -- years ago 17 when I first came into the group he had a little 18 trouble getting along with people.
19
[R. SPEC.
AGENTI I
Okay.
20 (b)(7)(C)
I tried working with him and 21 working with him.
He's opened up quite a bit.
He's--
22 he gets along with everybody fine now.
23 He-- he got a bad performance review this 24 last time.
I don't know how many improve but or a --
25 needs to improves he got but I think it was a number NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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-?c, 26 1
of them which could jeopardize his job.
He still 2
seems to be getting pressure like that, talking about 3
wage and so forth.
4
[SR.
SPEC. AGENT NTII7(C Okay.
5 1)(7)(C) 1I
- myself, I don't know the 6
reasons why but when I came back to work after this 7
(b)(7)(C) he gave me my numbers for -- for our bonus 8
at the end of the year and then he gave me (b(7(C)
L i
10 ISR.
SPEC.
AGENT[
Now who is 11 "he," sir?
12 J(b)(7)(c)
Huh?
((b)(7)(C)
((b)(7)(C) 15
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C) okay.
16 But 00 I I don't believe that 17 was his -- he's always been friendly with me and I 18 considered him a friend.
I think that was dictated to 19 him for some reason.
I don't know if that's the 20 beginning of -- of an assault on me or not. Idon't 21 think so, but I've always been --
22
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT l(b)(7)(C)
Why do you 23 feel management picks certain people not to like, for 24 lack of a better word?
J(b)(7)(C) 25
- Well, it seems to be -- to me NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1
my opinion is it's those of us who who don't 2
mention problems we think we see and improvements.
If 3
we don't agree and we say so, then it seems like we 4
get -- we get a bad time over it.
And that's not the 5
way it's supposed to be around here, you know.
The 6
law' says we we're --
we have responsibility to 7
bring up issues andjdoesn't like to hear that.
8 He
- seldom, it's okay with me, but he (b)(7)(C) 9 seldom speaks with me anymore unless [jis 10 gone and I'm taking his place and he wants to know 11 about certain -- the status of certain things.
We've 12 known each other a long time and it seems like a 13 change in atmosphere to me.
14 1 got a really good performance review.
15
[SR. SPEC. AGENT Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
Ib()C 16 iAnd yet I still got (b(7(C)
!7 Now if some of that was because I was I(b)(7)(c) 18
[
I don't know, you 19 know.
But some of the others got, you know,I 20' And*
wouldn't really tell me why.
21 So 22
[SR. SP2C. AGENm okay.
b)7(C) 23 I just kind of have this 24 feeling, you know, that as I've seen these other guys 25 fall that there might be something behind that.
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28 I
know that's not what you're here to talk about,lI 2
But it kind of describes a --
a negative 3
atmosphere.
4 There have been a number of people quit.
1(b)(7)(c) 5 (phonetic) couldn't take it any more.
He 6
transferred back into the shop.
A good friend of 7
- mine, (phonetic) did (b)(7)(C)
I(b)(7)(c) 8 he was getting sick over the thing and the 9
doctor told him he needed to find other employment.
10 That's just a few months ago.
Another who's been a
- 1.
long time association as an employee and a contractor 12 over 35 years experience had to quit because of the 13 pressure.
14 We're told now, just yesterday was 15 talking about at the morning meeting, he was talking 16 about the milestones.
He said -- and it sounded to me 17 like threats.
He said "This ties in with your bonus, 18 you're not going to get a bonus if you don't make this 19 milestone."
He was talking to the whole crew.
20 DR. SPEC.
AGENT
)(7)(COkay.
b)(7)(C)(b)(7) 21 My impression is tha (C__will 22 do most things to satisfy his management.
23
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT[(c)
J Okay.
You 24 think it's more of a attack on a personal nature, or 25 if it's a --
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G.
29 I
( b)()C)
-1 it is o 9 b)-7-()
2
[SR. SPEC. AGENT so you 3
believe it is?
4(b)(7)(C),
It is on (C
5
- R.
SPEC.
AGENT1(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
6 1jYes.
No they 1~(c) idoesn't 7
like him and I think that started maybe with -- with 8
the time he spent in (b)(7)(c) i His boss is is not 9
a nice guy--
10
- R.
SPEC. AGENT Who is that?
(b)(7)(C) 11 7
not a nice guy.
And he 12 wouldn't he didn't likeb7c 13 iR. SPEC. AGENT (b)(7)(c)O Who was that, 14 sir?
(b)(7)(C) 15 Oh shoot, it's one of a new 16 block here.
I'll call you with it.
It's just slipped 17 away.
I can see it flying away, you know.
18
- R.
SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(c) 1 Okay.
19 "b)(7)(C)
I forget names sometimes and 20 I'm old enough to do it.
maybe it'll come 21 before you leave.
22
ýR. SPEC.
AGENT 1(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
23
- Anyway, and I think some of 24 that was passed on toC b ecause as in(7 25 too.
And whenever there were shortcuts, or at. least NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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it t 30 1
E hought they were shortcuts being taken he would 2
say so and I don't think they liked him for it.
So 3
that kind of carried on with~iland --
and it seems 4
to me there's always been a personal issue there with 5
7 And also my observation is once he doesn't like 6
you he --
he doesn't like you from then on and --
7 GR. SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
8 I
and he would take 9
opportunities to knock you down.
10
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTI Okay.
With I(b)7(7)-(c)
(ri i
g h
b
)(7) 11 regards to
-raising the concern aboutE!
12 filling in do you think there was any 13 additional personal attacks on him for raising that 14 concern or did he ever express that to you?
15 1(b)(7)(c)
Yes.
He did describe it to 16 me.
I didn't think he did anything wrong.
He just 17 didn't think she was --
18 PR. SPEC. AGENT[(
Okay.
19
(--
qualified.
And he liked (b)(7)(C) 20 okay and he has his standards for other things 21 with --
you know about the way a person dresses, I
22 think but he didn't bring that into the issue at all.-
23 1 think that Zdidn't like that at all and told 24 to -- what to do, you know.
25
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT I(b)(7)(c)
What do you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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C-31 1
mean by "told Z(7)(C)
-what to do?"
(b)(7)(C) 2 1
think he -- he told him that 3
on his performance review to get a better one.
Bad 4
enough where you had to make some improvements, but 5
along the same line he was never given any direction 6
on improvement.
He was never coached and given goals 7
to meet, which is the way you're supposed to do that 8
as a supervisor, you try --
if a person is troubled, 9
you try to help them come along.
I don't think he was 10 troubled but -- but he was rated as such and he was 11 not -- not given those opportunities, you know, in a 12 formal manner.
And I think that's because it was just 13 it was just --
he was, like I said, prejudiced 14 against him.
15 SR. SPEC. AGENT1 (b)(7)(c)
Okay.
Okay.
() )(C) 16 In fact --
I --
it didn't take 17 place in front of me but you probably have in 18
- there, was laid off for a week --
19
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTI(b)T)C)
(Inaudible).
20 Eb(7(-- and he wasn't given any --
21 like I say, any indication that he was a problem like 22 that or received any counseling or anything.
And he 23 was just called in and told to clear out his desk and 24 meet I don't know who he met up there,Zc 25
- probably, and [c) in the personnel building 51 and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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32 1
they laid him off.
Course that pissed[
1 off.
I 2
don't think he'd done anything to deserve that.
I 3
don't know what took place behind doors other than 4
- him, speaking out.
I know he'll do that.
5 tR. SPEC.
AGENT I Did you ever
- ( b)(c (C) 6 observe any action taken against by his 7
supervisor that you feel might have been retaliatory 8
in nature?
9(b)(7)(C)
Just the results.
I never saw 10 the things taking place.
11
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C)
Are you 12 talking about just his appraisal and things of that 13 nature?
14 Yes.
- Yes, told me they 15 gave me this, you know, he would tell me about stuff 16 because I complained about because she was made 17 supervisor and she's not qualified.
And that rankled 18 him.
But he didn't I never saw that in public.
19 That was something you volunteered in private.
20 iR. SPEC.
AGENTIZ(b)(7)(c)
So everything 21 you know about the situation was things he told you?
(b)(7)(C) 22 With who?
23 10R.
SPEC.
AGENTIE(b)(7c) C Everything 24 that you know about the situation was what he told you 25 not what you witnessed, is that correct?
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33 1
()(7)(c)
No.
Not completely.
When he (b)(7)(C) 2 was laid off for the week, Jused to talk to 3
me about stuff and he would tell be that he had 4
conversation with(bJc and) jwas impolite and so 5
forth.
Ic7)¢ would tell me things of that nature 6
afterwards.
7
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT Z(b)(7)(c)
Okay.
8 I(b)(7)(C) 7 Because he and I have known 9
each other for a long time too.
And I would --
when 10 he'd tell me that excuse me --
I would say that it 11 didn't surprise me that he spoke out, but I still 12 thought he was a good employee. He was hired here in 13 his present job tol(b)(7)(C) 14 ones and they're always on time and --
15
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT II Okay.
16 (I
he never complains about 17 the workload.
So to me he's doing his job, you know, 18 and he's not doing anything like in
-- with whatever 19 conversations they had or arguments, however it may 20 be, that were never in public.
21
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT1)(7)(C)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C) 22 So I don't think he he 23 wasn't insubordinate because he would always do his 24 job, and that's what he was hired to do, so --
25 R
SPEC.
AGENI Okay.
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£ 34 1
Sometimes you don't work with 2
people you get along with very well, you know?
I1)7)(C)1 3
ISR.
SPEC. AGENT[
Right.
4 (b)(7)(C)
But it's just the way it is, 5
you know. but --
6 tR. SPEC. AGENTI You mentioned 7
that his suspension and you said laid off for a week.
8
- Okay, Suspension, yes, that 9
was the right word.
10 tR. SPEC. AGENT[Zb)c Did you know 11 anything about that?
12 i had told me he 13 suspended him for --
this was that day.
14 SR. SPEC. AGENT II Okay. Did he 15 give you any reason why he suspended I(b,(7,(C) 16 He said because of the way 17 had talked to him.
And I don't know what that 18 consisted of because I didn't hear it.
And I guess it 19 was behind closed doors in office.
20
- R.
SPEC. AGENT (l)(7)(C)
DidI(b)(7)(c) 21 tell you why he felt he was suspended?
Was it because (b)(7)(C) 22 of or was it (b)(7)(C) 23 That was one of them.
But I 24 think the way I understand it when(
tells me, 25 it's just a succession of things over time.
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[.
35 1
don't know if got angry at --
at because 2
they already didn't get along great because of, you 3
- know, being outspoken or it was something that 4
took place in there --
in that office that day.
But Ib()(C) 5 told me that they had they had had 6
words and all that and he thought he was disrespectful 7
and so he suspended him.
8 PR. SPEC.
AGENT
-J Okay.
9 c
Now did tell me when 10 came back after a week, he told me "I guess you 11 know I've been --
I was suspended and I came back."
12 I said "Yes I know, I heard that."
And he said "I'm 13 just going to keep my mouth shut.
I'm not going to 14 complain or -- or anything.
I'm just going to take 15 care of the business I usually take care of."
And he 16 has for the most part, but I don't know what'other 17 pressures are put to him.
I guess the last 18 performance review really got to him.
19
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
20 (b)(7)(c)
Because I know that was --
I 21 know what -- what verbal things associated with that --
22 were associated, but I know he didn't deserve that 23 kind of a performance appraisal because it talks about 24 your responsibilities, talks about the goals you setup 25 and that were setup for you.
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36 1
[R. SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C)
] Okay.
2 (b)(7)(c) 7 And you
- respond, you've 3
probably seen those, you respond how you think you've 4
done and so forth. AndFb77) idn' t receive anything.
5 He didn't receive anything in writing about his 6
suspension only his -- his -- he just told me this the 7
other day because he knew this was coming up, you 8
know.
The only thing he received was a return to duty 9
kind of a letter.
10 PR. SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(C' Right.
11 But he was never presented 12 with any any written evidence of why he was 13 suspended, which I thought was strange.
But he didn't 14 receive anything else in writing either, you know, 15 when he'd get a hard time before he didn't he 16 didn't get any guidance at all on how he could 17 improve.
And I think that's because that was not 18 accurate.
19I.SR.
SPEC. AGENT1 Okay 20 you have any questions?
21 iPEC. AGENT No.
I don't.
22 LSR.
SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
All (b(7(C) 23 right.
[7 I have a couple of questions and 24 we'll be done.
(b)(7)(C) 25 1Sure.
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C 37 S[SR.
SPEC. AGENT (b)(7)(C)
Have I or any 2
other NRC employee threatened you or promised you 3
anything --
(b)(7)(C) 4
]
No.
5 LSR. SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(7)(C) in return 6
for your testimony today?
7 N(b)(7)(C) o No.
Nothing, no not at all.
8 PR. SPEC. AGEN Have you given 9
your statement freely and voluntarily?
10 Yes.
I have.
11
ýR. SPEC. AGENT (
Okay.
Before 12 we go off record, is there anything I haven't asked 13 you think's important about this issue?
14 Yes.
There is. one thing.
15 When when we brought forth at [ b)(7)(c)
- time, 16 when we brought forth discussions and attempts to help 17 the situation, been a couple of years ago, and we came 18 up and we were interviewed here.
That time I think I(b)(7)(C)
)
19 roblems started too because he was active in 20 that.
But two days after we left here, we were 21 interviewed.
22 SR. SPEC.
AGENTE'b)(7)(c)
Okay.
23 llThe guy that was my supervisor 24 at the time, he's retired since also because he 25 couldn't take it
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38 1
of those kind of performance reviews too.
Because he 2
-- he's friendly and he told me that he said "They're 3
telling me I have to do this, this, this, and this and 4
I don't want to do it, but I got to do it."
He says 5
"Because they're pressuring me to that or else."
6 He approached me privately in in it 7
was two days after we'd had our interview and he said 8
"I understand you guys were talking about me, 9
complaining about me at your interview."
10
[R. SPEC. AGENTEI(b)(7)(C)
And who's this 11 guy?
(b)(7)(C)
S n e
- (b)(7)(C) 12 His name 13 (phonetic).
He was thefr)7 14 ER. SPEC. AGENT Okay.
15 r )(7)(C) 7 Before likb7c And I don't 16 know how that got out but it made me think about how 17 they got the information.
18
[SR. SPEC. AGENTEC You talking --
19 (b)(7)(c)
Because he knew some details.
20 SR. SPEC. AGENT1(b)I7)(c)
You talked to 21 NRC?
22 (b)(7)(C)
The first time -- yes.
First 23 time we came here and interviewed he asked me about 24 specific details that he'd heard.
25 ISR.
SPEC. AGENT II Okay.
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39 b)(7)(C) 1 And I don't know where he got 2
them or how he got them.
That I just wanted to 3
pass it along to you guys because that's not supposed 4
to be that way, you know.
5
[SR. SPEC.
AGENT[(b)(7)(¢)
Right.
I(b)(7)(¢)
IAnd that kind of -- see that--
7 that --
that smacks to me of --
of --
of a calm, a
8 chilling atmosphere, you know, when you -- when you do 9
what you're supposed do and what you -- you've agree 10 to do and they tell you about when you hire in if you 11 got any problems of this nature and they're not 12 getting resolved, then you -- you can do these things.
13 You know, you can go see your supervisor, you can do 14 a safety concern anonymously, you can go see a NRC 15 inspector so forth.
16 SR. SPEC.
AGENT
)(7)(C)
Yes.
17 (7)(C)
When that kind of information 18 will get out and they can use that.
It just -- the 19 whole atmosphere seems to me now it's not -- I don't 20 get nervous about stuff about work.
I've been doing 21 it too long, but I do feel like there's a
like 22 there's a negative atmosphere.
Like I --
if it really 23 needed to be done, I'd bring up a safety concern.
24
[SR. SPEC. AENTZb)(
Okay.
25 And I'd do it with the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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%/C 40 1
supervisors first, I'd try to go that route.
But I 2
would really think twice anymore about that before I 3
did it.
Because I
I think there'd be some 4
retribution.
5
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTE(b)(7)(C)
Okay.
6 J(b)(7)(C)
And I don't like that because 7
I don't know what else is going on, you know.
I'm 8
getting old enough and worked long enough where, in 9
the union I could quit but if I needed to.
But still 10 I want to work for awhile and -- and so I would think 11 about that twice before I raise a concern unless it 12 was --
unless it was of an urgent nature, you know, 13 and that's not right.
14
[R. SPEC. AGENTZ(
Right.
Okay.
15 I appreciate you telling me that.
Anything else, sir?
I(b)(7)(C)J 16 No.
Not that I can think of.
17 It's just kind of been going on and on here.
I 18 wouldn't be a bit surprised to seeI)(7)(C) 19 You know, it's kind of hard to take that stuff 20 for a long period of time, 21
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT I
Okay.
J~)7}C ~)(7)(C) 22
'1J I
know that's why J~b(7(C 1
23 1(b)(7)(C) He told me that.
And I know why the others 24 quit those contractors and others.
It is because the 25 pressure's put on them to produce even though it might NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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I a,
U
-1C..
1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 41 not be what they would prefer to do.
[SR. SPEC.
AGENTN[bm7)
]
Okay.
7)(C)
One of our one of our e(b)(7)(C) employees, I don't know if you're going to interview him but he --
b because of these things.
And in fact even now he (b)(7)(c)
(b)(7)(C)
And he'd got -- he's a real meticulous kind of person and he's got all of these assignments here that must be done almost like immediately.
And there must be --
and he's got packages, there must be 15 of them, 10 or 15, and he has to get them done by a certain time, you know.
It's just difficult.
And anyone to work there anyone I talk with because I ask the guys how they're doing as I kind of oversee them.
All of them are that way.
None of them are --
none of them are happy with their work.
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTZ (b)(7)(c)
Okay.
(b)(7)(C)
. I know it's that way with a troubled plant.
I know some other people that have been in some troubled plants and there's a lot of pressure for that but this is different.
They're --
they're not --
I think a lot of them don't feel safe, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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I I..I 42 1
you know.
2
[SR.
SPEC. AGENT (b)(7)(¢)c Okay.
3 j(b)(7)(C)
I don't have any -- any facts 4
or figures to hand in front of you to give you that.
S That's just the impression I get because I spend a lot 6
of time with the y
you know, talking to them, 7
seeing how they're doing and so forth.
And they're 8
for the most part they're --
they're not happy.
9
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENT (b)(7)(C)
Okay.
10 They -- they don't -- I don't 11
-- I think a number would not bring up issues.
But 12 that's just my opinion so it's not worth --
13
[SR.
SPEC.
AGENTI (b)(C)
-1 Okay.
14 Just kind of background for 15 you.
16 SR.
SPEC.
AGENT Okay.
, (b)(7)(C)I 17 Anything else, 18 (b)(N)(o)
No.
That's all, thank you.
19 IR. SPEC.
AGENT N
Okay.
This 20 interview is concluded at approximately 9:53 a.m. on 21 September 28, 2011.
22 (Whereupon the interview was concluded at 23 9:53 a.m.)
24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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-I CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Interview of I(b)(7)(C)
Docket Number:
4-2011-024 Location:
San Clemente, California were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape(s) provided by the NRC.
(b)(7)(C)
I VO( tt*cial-'Trahscriberj Neal R. Gross & Co.,
Inc.
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(2