ML12320A421

Exhibit 23 to ROI, Case No. 4-2011-059 - Transcript of Interview

ML12320A421
Person / Time
Site:	San Onofre
Issue date:	01/12/2012
From:	NRC/OI/RGN-III/FO
To:
References
4-2011-059, FOIA/PA-2012-0238
Download: ML12320A421 (44)

Text

EXHIBIT 23 Case No. 4-2011-059 EXHIBIT 23

I 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3

4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW 6 ------- x 7 IN THE MATTER OF:

8 INTERVIEW OF 01 Case No.

(b)(7)(C) 9 4-2011-059 20 (CLOSED)

- ------ x 12 Thursday, January 1ý2, 2012 13 14 Meeting Room, L-50 E9uilding 15 San Onofre Nuclear C3enerating Station 16 5000 Pacific Coast I ighway 17 near San Clemente, California 18 19 The above-entitled ir iterview was conducted 20 at 1:20 p.m.

21 22 (b)(7)(C) 23 24 25

. 4 ; 64-1 EXHIBIT_,__

PAGELOF %, PAG S420 1 -059 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBEF Is 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W. www.nealrgross.com l (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701

2 1 APPEARANCES:

2 On Behalf of the interviewee, Other Individuals 3 Involved in the Investioation and Southern California 4 Edison Company:

5 6

7 8 of 9

(b)(7)(C) 2.0 211 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 1.9 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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3.

1 PROCEEDINGS 2

I (b)(7)(C) We're on the 3 record. This is an interview of (b)(7)(

4 Today's date is January 12, 2012. It is approximately 5 1:20 p.m.

6 The location of this interview is in the 7 meeting room in Building L-50 at the San Onofre 8 Nuclear Generating Station in San Clemente, 9 California. Present at this interview are F (b)(7)(C) 10 11 12 This interview involves an allegation of 13 discrimination against a] (b)(7)(C) [or 14 reporting nuclear safety concerns to the NRC and it's 15 reported under 01 Case No. 4-2011-059.

16 (b)(7)(C) (b)(7)(C) epresenting 17 you personally in regard to this investigation?

18 (b)(7)(C) she is. uYes, (b)(7)(C) Do you understand 19 20 the purpose of her presence here today?

21 S(b)(7)(C) **Do you understand 22 23 that (b)(7)(C) ilso represents the Company and 24 other individuals?

IIIC) Yes, I do understand that.

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4 1 (b)(7)(C) Does your 2 employer -- now I understand that you're((C)-

3 But does SCE require you to have an attorney present 4 when you are being interviewed by the NRC Office of 5 Investigations?

(b)(7)(¢) oNOthey do not.

6 7 (b)(7)(C) I Were you in any 8 way threatened with any type of adverse action from 9 SCE if you did not request corporate counsel?

10 I (b)(7)(C) No, I didn't. No.

11 I (b)(7)(C) - Do you feel that 12 you would suffer any adverse consequences from SCE if 13 you would have elected not to have personal 14 representation here?

15 (b)(7)(C) No.

(b)(7)(C) Would your 16 17 testimony in this matter be in any way inhibited by 18 the attorney's presence?

19 ((CZ No, it would not.

(b)(7)(C)Do you understand 20 21 that you have a right to a private interview with me 22 at your convenience?

23 (b)(7)(C) Yes, I do.

(b)(7)(C) With that 24 25 understanding, do you still wan t (bI)()( resent NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS Q323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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5 i for the interview?

(b)(7)(C) Yes, I do.

2 3 (b)(7)(C) IThank you.

4 (b)(7)(C) for the record, would you 5 please your full name, your firm and the scope of your 6 representation please?

(b)(7)(C) II'm with 7

8 the Southern California Edison Company Law Department.

9 And I'm here representingi (b)(7)(C) ind the Company 10 and other witnesses in this matter.

(b)(7)(C) Do you anticipate 11 12 a conflict of interest with respect to your 13 representation of (b)(7)(C) as an individual and 14 your concurrent representation of Southern California 15 Edison?

(b)(7)(C) INo, I do not.

16 (b)(7)(C) In the event that 17 18 a conflict was to arise during the course of this 29 interview, what action would you take?

I - (b)(7)() Ii would informl (b)(7)(C) 20 21 that I could no longer represent him, that I would 22 continue to represent the Company and others. I would 23 also inform him that he had the choice of continuing 24 with this interview without representation or he could 25 ask for a postponement so he could get a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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6 1 representa tive of his own choosing.

2 (b)(7)(C) J Thank you.

(b)(7)(C) the NRC 0I protocol includes 3

4 a swearing in of witnesses. Do you have any objection 5 to being sworn in?

(b)(7)(C) No, I do not.

6 7 (b)(7)(C) Can you raise 8 your right hand, please? Do you swear that the 9 information you're about to give is the truth, the 10 whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you God?

I (b)(7)(C) I Yes, I do.

1") (b)(7)(C) _Thank you, sir.

13 Can you give for the record your full name?

(b)(7)(C) 11 (b)(7)(C) 14 15 (b)(7)(C) I. And what's your 16 current -- Or you're currentl (b)(7)(C)I Correct?

17 F _(b)(7)(C) 110 That is correct.

18 (b)(7)(C) What was your 19 former position when you (b)(7)(C) I here at SONGS?

• (b)(7)(C) At the point that I b)(7)(C) 20 21 from San Onofre, I was the (b)(7)(C) 22 And who I(b)(7)(C) were you 23 employed by at the time?

(b)(7)(C) I was an employee of 24 25 Southern California Edison.

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7 1 I %r (b)(7)(C)

IHow long were you 2 the 3

4 And how long did 5 you work here at SONGS in total?

S (b)(7)(C) I worked for Southern 6

7 California Edison forL (b)(7)(C) years. Most of 8 that time was at the station. I can amplify on that 9 if you want.

10 (b)(7)(C) lNo, I don't think I! that's necessary. But before you came here to SONGS 12 did you have any other nuclear experience?

(b)(7)(C7)11 also worked forF (b)(7)(C) 13 (b)(7)(C) __ at the F (b)(7)(C) 14 (b)(7)(C)b 15 16 (b)()(C)How long were you 17 working over there?

(D)(7)(C) I worked for (b)(7)(C) 18 19 (b)(7)(C) or about I(b)(7)(C) 20 21 Okay. Do you 22 have any military experience?

23 (D)(7)(C) 1No, I do not.

(b)(7)(C) Can you give me 24 25 a brief description of your position as a (b)(7)(C)

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8 1 1 (b)(7)(C) 2 (b)(7)(C) I had approximatel] (b)(7)(C) 3 4

5 6 (b)(7)(C) 7 S

9-10 (b)(7)(C) Now you had a 11 number of (b)(7)(C) leporting to you. Correct?

12 (b)(7)(C) That's correct.

13 (b)(7)(C) Wasi Ine7(C 14 of those individuals?

15 (b)(7)( Yes, ýI was a direct 16 report.

17 (b)(7)(C) *kay. Before we 18 went on the record, I was telling you about the focus 19 of my investigation and how it involved the 20 allegations raised by (b)(7)(C) Were you involved in (b)(7)(C) 21 the process in hiring 7 ,Cere at the plant?

22 And just for clarification I understand 23 that he (b)(7)(C) I He worked here for a 24 number of years. (b)(7)(C) 25 (b)(7)(C) Were you part NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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9 1 of the process to hire him whe (b)(7)(C)  :

(( I wasn't on the hiring panel 2

eing a direct report she probably would have 3

posted me as to her progress, the selected candidate 5 that she was intending to extend an offer. Those were 6 some things, but directly I wasn't involved in that (b)(7) 7 hiring process other than as (C) would report to me.

8 I7Did you have any 9 perso]nal interaction withI (b)(7)(C)cduring the time 10 that he was employed here?

11 ()7(The I(b)(7)(C) 12 time?

13 I(b)(7)(C) The 14 IYes, I did.

15 F_ (b)(7)(C) = And what was the 16 extent of it? Did you casually come across him in 17 your work here at the plant? Or did he come to you 18 personally with any issues? What type of interactions 19 did you personally have with him?

(b)(7)(c) So he was a direct report to 20 21 I So he was just a couple levels down. Frequently 22 at the station I would have regular interaction with 7 )(C s well.

23 people at that level. I did so witlb 24 In addition, there was a special 25 assignment thatiI(7)c) was asked to take on and I was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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10 1(b)(7)(C) the overall I guess I call it kind of a 2 ((C for that group. There was a lead manager that 3 was driving a special effort. It was to get prepared 4 for ~ (b)(7)(C) 5 And so he was asked to be on that team and 6 be a part of that. Since I was kind oI (b)(7)(C) Ihat 7 team I would frequently meet with the team and get 8 briefed and go through the discovery process. So I 9 saw probably a lot more o 3ED n that setting than 10 i normally would have in his regular set of 11 responsibilities.

12 F (b)(7)(C) Would that happen 13 to be theI (b)(7)(C) 14 (b)(7)(C) Yes.

15 (b)(7)(C) Okay. At about 16 what time was he assigned to this team?

17 1j(b)(7)(C  : I would have to look at a 18 calendar to get really exact, but it seems that we had 19 -- So I would say it's about the (b)(7) time frame of 20 (b)(7)(C) 21 (b)(7)(C) 22 (bY7(C) Yes.. So( we're talking 23 about. (b)(7)(C) and that went on 24 through the ( So that group's efforts 25 terminated somewhere in the time frame as T NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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%*vmI *v * ....

1' 1 recall.

l (b)(7)(C) Just for 2

3 background information, why i (b)(7)(C) hosen to work 4 on this team?

5 I (b)(7)(C) We were at an (b)(7)(C) 6 (b)(7)(C) offsite and we were talking about the key 7 issues that were facing the station and who were some 8 of the key personnel that we had, capable personnel 9 that we had, thinking down through the organization 10 several levels. We weren't just thinking about our 11 direct reports. We were trying to broaden the scope 12 of key players we could throw at some of our big 13 assignments coming up.

14 Ib7l iame came up in the course of that 15 discussion. And it was agreed to ask him to serve on 16 zhat group.

17 (b)(7)(C) Was he I;

18 recommended byi (b)(7)(C) -o you recall?

J)as not a part of those 19 20 discussions. This would have been (b)(7) 21 (b)(7)(C) our course.

22 So, no, (b)(7)(C) id not make this recommendation.

(b)(7)(C) lWas (b)(7)(C) Ihat 23 24 well thought of that he was chosen to be on this team 25 or?

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L12 1 IIC) He had some favorable 2 impressions among the (b)(7)(C) I 3 would say that over the course of his involvement with 4 this project that pretty soundly changed everybody's 5 opinions. But going in there were high expectations, 6 high regard. In the course of that project, I would 7 say that people's opinions changed noticeably at the 8 senior level.

9 I (b)(7)(C) Okay. Can you I0 elaborate on that? Exactly what did 7 (b)(C) Ido or 11 what did he fail to do that led people to change their 12 opinions about him?

13 I (b)(7)(C) I think we were looking --

14 For the station, this is one of the key challenges we 15 had was to address thisI (b)(7)(C)

I 16 (b)(7)(C) We wanted to put our absolute 17 best foot forward, put our best people, aggressive 18 people, that were well thought of, intelligent, hard-19 working, to pull together the materials that were 20 necessary so that we could hopefully knock out this 21 inspection the first time around and not have it go on 22 and on, (c) seemed to do exactly what he was told 23 24 or asked to do and nothing more. So he didn't show 25 the kind of initiative, drive., aggressiveness that he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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13 1 was perceived to have. He just didn't show any of 2 those real capabilities. He was a good soldier. He 3 did exactly what he was told to do, but he didn't 4 think any passed that. He didn't develop those ideas.

5 He just really didn't add much to the equation. So he 6 was a good worker, but we were looking for a lot more 7 than that from the people we put on that team.

8 (b)(7)(C) How did he rate 9 in relation to the other employees on this team?

IHe was below average I would 10 say because most of the people we put on this team 12 were really capable, driven, understood the magnitude 13 of what was being asked of them. And they really 14 stepped up and really did a stellar job. So I would 15 say he was below average compared to the group he was 16 with.

(b)(7)(C) Were you managing 17

_18 this effort or was it someone else?

19 IThere was a team lead that 20 was really driving all the day-to-day assignments and 21 working through all of this. So the team lead )(I (b)(7)(C) I. I was kind of -- I sai* (b)(7)(C) I 22 23 earlier. I think a (b)(7)(C) 24 F Okay.

Ib(7(C Who was 25 the team lead? Do you remember?

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14 1 (b)(7)(C) I believe it wa sbI(

2 (phonetic).

(b)(7)(C) 3 ( Okay.

L. (b)(7)(C) He was an (b)(7)(C) 6 (b)(7)(C) -Did you ever hear 7 any complaints fro (b)(?)(C) bou (b)7()

8 (b)(7)(C) I went directly to( and 9 just asked him about all team members. How are we 10 doing? Who is really performing? You know, who is 11 not? Do we have the right people in the room? Just 12 trying to make sure he was properly resourced to be 13 able to carry out what he was asked to do.

14 And that discussion about ()7 mean he 15 gave some pretty direct feedback about he's okay. He 16 does what he's asked to do. But there's nothing 17 extra. There's no initiative or drive or imagination.

18 I mean he just doesn't seem to be really getting it 19 his full skill set. He's just showing up.

20 1 (b)(7)(C) I Was this ever 21 communicated back tol (b)(7)(C) Ito your knowledge?

22 1 (b)(7)(C) I I believe it was. I think 23 in his performance reviews. We have midyear 24 performance assessments and performance reviews.

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.15 I (h)17) 1 t oI C I I don't know what was written. I'd have to 2 look at th at, what was written in his performance 3 review. B ut I'm fairly certain that that was all 4 discussed w'ith him. He was given candid feedback on 5 that.

(b)7(C) kay. How would 7 you rate it through, I mean, overall when you had this 8 discussion with (b)(7)(C) :about his work performance 9 on this l (b)(7)(C) - I mean did you --

10 I'm looking for a type of evaluation like. Did you 11 say that he was failing to meet expectations? Did you 12 say that hi s performance was subpar?

l(b)(7)(C) His performance was 13 P1 adequate.

(b)(7)(C) Okay. All right.

15 16 it, s my understanding from having intervieweI (b)(7)(C)Z 17 that when he was -- In the spring and summer of 2010 18 he was chosen for a few special assignments like this 19 one. And was this the assignment that involved him 20 (b)(7)(C) lor was 21 that a different assignment?

22 (b)(7)C That's a different 23 assignment.

24 (b)(7)(C) lokay. I had a 25 few questions regarding that.

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16 Are there any other instances when 1

2 7 that you know of was not adequately performing 3 his function or his assignment in another role?

Well, I (b-)(7)1 (c) was briefing me on 4 (b)(7)(

5 a pretty regular basis about his area of 6 responsibility when he was pulled off onto the 7 He had a kind of a (b)(7)(C) I He 8 was brought in I want to say (b)(7)(C) Ikind of time 9 frame. Is that when he (b)(7)(C) J 10 (b)(7)(C) It was actually 11 l 12 (b)(7)(C) okay. So he 13 (b)(7)(C) Jtime frame. Quickly 14 thereafter we had some (b)(7)(C) ireporting 15 to him. You know need for leadership.

16 When this special assignment came up, this 17 is some months later. But when the special assignment 18 came up, he just seemed to drop all contact with his 19 group. People likZ (b)(7)(C) hat were providing 20 leadership for the (b)(7)(C) he was coming in 21 early. He would go late. He'd keep up with emails.

22 He would probably meet with his people, provide 23 direction. You know, he didn't just cut his 24 (b)(7)(C) guys loose and say, "Good luck. I'll see 25 you when I'm done with this." He kept in touch.

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17 1 And that was pretty well the expectation 2 for other people. We would leave you alone for eight 3 hours3.472222e-5 days <br />8.333333e-4 hours <br />4.960317e-6 weeks <br />1.1415e-6 months <br /> a day to let you work on the special assignment.

4 But at the time we were in INPO (phonetic) -- Were we 5 in INPO full time at that time or that happened in 6 August maybe.

7 Anyway, our performance was not really 8 high. We knew we were recovering nuclear power plant.

9 We knew that with a 95-001 inspection and so forth we 10 had some concerns from our regulator. We needed to 11 step it up. And so putting in an eight hour day which 12 is al7)(C)H as doing that whole summer and neglecting 13 his group just was not okay.

14 (b)(7)(C) Whe (b)(7)(C) as 1-5 chosen to be on thel Ib(7 do you 16 recall (b)(7)(C) impression? Or was she in line 17 with him going to the (b)(7)(C) Was she in favor 18 of it is what I'm trying of say.

19 (b)(7)(C) Was she in favor of it?

20 (b)(7)(C) - From what you 21 could tell.

22 (b)(7)( I don't think that would 23 have been her first pick to send him off right at the 24 point of him having a (b)(7)(C) on 25 top of she was already I think having some indications NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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18 1 that he wasn't doing that great.

2 So as I recall our conversations -- this 3 is some time ago now -- it wouldn't have been first on 4 her list to recommend him. In fact, she wouldn't have 5 recommended him for this assignment. But since 6 leadership really needed some good people she didn't 7 feel like she could just stand in the front of the 8 boss and say, "We just can't do that."

9 So she was concerned about the group. She 10 was concerned about things falling through the cracks.

11 She was concerned about even how he may perform in 12 this environment. But also recognizes it may be a 13 really good opportunity. There's going to be 14 spotlight on this group. Maybe that's what he needed 15 to kind of really take arise and really perform well.

16 And maybe the pressure and the time constraint and 17 something special to work on rather than the regular 18 maybe that would be the opportunity he needed.

19 So she I think was clear at counseling.

20 If there was another person to pick, she would much --

21 And I think we even talked about names. But in the 22 end we really -- We had a name. It was a really short 23 duration assignment, He could stay in touch with the 24 group. You know, he just couldn't be there 10 hours1.157407e-4 days <br />0.00278 hours <br />1.653439e-5 weeks <br />3.805e-6 months <br /> 25 a day or 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> a day to lead the group. He would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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19 1 have to take a timeout for a period. of the day and go 2 work this other effort. Was that responsive to your question?

(b)(7)(C) Yes. Thank you.

4 5 You described his work performance on this (b)(7)(C) J as adequate. When was the first time that you became 7 aware of any real work performance issue with [M7 (b)(7)(C) 8 9 (b)(7)(C) On this te*am assignment or?

10 (b)(7)(C) No. Overall.

(b)(7)(C) I Overall. I would say it was 12 before we put him on this assignment. So I'd say we 13 put him on that assignment in the (

(C) time frame. So 14 I would sayI(b)(5) time frame I became aware that 15 there were issues relative to his performance.

(b)(7)(C) Okay. And you 16 17 learned this from whom?

18 I(b)(7)(C) 7 From 19 J (b)(7)(C) Okay. And, to 20 the best of your recollection, what was the primary 21 shortcoming inj 7C) performance during that 22 time?

23 (b)(7)(C) I would probably have to --

24 I don't remember directly.

(b)(7)(C) Okay.

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20 1()(7)(C) I know there's a timeline 2 that reated.

3 (b)(7)(C) Okay. Well, 4 that's fine. But you do recall being told somewhere 5 during the April-May of 2010 time frame b Z(b)(7)(C) 6 that there were shortcomings inI (b)(7)(C) work 7 performance. Is that fair?

8 (b)(7)(C) Yes. That is correct.

9 (b)(7)(C) Okay.

10 (D)(7)(C) I think )(*)C) as fairly 11 surprised by the way because I think we all brought 12 (b)(7)(C) with pretty high 13 expectations. He (b)(7)(c) really pretty top 14 performing guy. He interviewed well. It looked like 15 he had the right background and so forth. We were 16 excited to have a highly capable person (b)(7)(

17 the company.

18 And I think it became evident just really 19 early on that this wasn't the same guy or at least he 20 wasn't performing at the levels that were expected.

21 So those discussions were had early. kas real 22 good about keeping me informed on things like that.

23 I(b)(7)(C) So he was failing 24 to meet expectations from the start.

25 (b)(7)[C) That is correct.

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21 1 (b)(7)(C) your knowledge 2 was with him regularly to help him bmeeting 3 along or at least communicate to him that he wasn't 4 meeting expectations?

I (b)(7)(C) Yesj - Yes. S as --

5 Cis not one to leave people alone and hope they 6

7 figure things out. She'll work with them, coach them, 8 mentor them, you know, provide them somebody else to 9 show them the ropes or. And she's very encouraging 10 that way.

11 She has really high standards and really 12 high expectations. But she's pretty clear about what 13 those are. She doesn't pla' a guessing game with 14 people. So she keeps them informed including if there 15 are shortfalls in their performance. And she's pretty 16 direct about having those conversations.

17 I(b)(7)(C) Did I b)(7)iI 18 work performance ever improve?

I Not on any sustained basis.

19 (b)(7)(C) Okay.

20

!7 And I can think of other 21 22 instances where I had asked for reports or he had 23 promised information to me that he left. It seems 24 like one time he (b)(7)(C) and this is probably 25 inO (b)(7)(C) itime frame where he (b)(7)(C)

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22 1 did not connplete something that was required to be 2 done and se veral of us had to just dive in and spend 3 some late hours and early morning in a hurry-up 4 situation aind cover for things and create a report and 5 information that he was supposed to have delivered 6 before he 1 eft.

71 ()Okay. Related to 8 that I'm go ing to show you an email that's an email 9 from yourse If tol (b)(7)(C) IIt's datedi (b)(7)(C) 10 And I 1'll show it to Counsel and she can show it 1I to you. An d we can go off the record while we review

`2 it. Okay?

(b)(7)(C) Okay.

13 (b)(7)(C) Off the record.

14 15 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)

16 (b)(7)(C) Back on the 17 record. Th e time is approximately 1:42 p.m.

18 You were able to review this document, 19 sir.

(b)(7)(C) Yes, I was.

20 (b)(7)(C) And does it 21 22' refresh you r memory?

23 (b)) Yes, it does. This helps.

24 Thank you.

25 (b)(7)(C) And is this the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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23 1 incident that you were just discussing before we went 2 off the record?

3 (b)(7)(C) Yes. It looks like the 4 actual timing of this is more like the (b)(7)(C) time 5 frame rather thanI (b)(7)(c) I that I was recalling.

6 But, yes, this is the incident that I was recalling 7 thatJ b7Cfailed to get me information that he had 8 promised prior toJ (b)(7)(C) which 9 really left us in a jam.

10 (b)(7)(C) And you had il stated that this is one of a few examples that come to 12 mind when it comes to him not fulfilling his job 13 responsibilities.

14 (b)(7)(C) That is correct.

15 (b)(7)(C) Okay.

16 (b)(7) Unfortunately, there was 17 just a continued pattern wit1(IIC E of things like this 18 where he would commit to do things, wouldn't do them.

19 The work he would put in would be not well reviewed.

20 And then he would issue it and then it would run into 21 a fire storm because it hadn't been properly reviewed.

22 The procedure I believe is a case in point on that 23 that he was working on a procedure that he just issued 24 instead of getting it properly reviewed.

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24 1 barrage of these things going on. It's not just one 2 instant. It's not two things. There's a mosaic.

3 There's a whole picture that kind of gets put together 4 when you start looking at all the little pieces here.

5 And that's what I thinkE as talked to 6 you about. And I think that's wha tIE~as documented 7 in her notes that it was like most everything he 8 touched. It's not an isolated incident.

I(b)(7)(C) From your vantage 9

10 point given your extensive experience being a manager, what was the issue? Was it a competence issue? Was 12 it an attitude issue? What? Did you ever formulate 13 an opinion as to what was going on here?

14 Z ic) it I Calls for some conjecture on 15 my part.

16 I (b)(7)(C) I Please do I mean

-7 as long as Counsel doesn't object.

( Well, clearly labeled as 18 19 his opinion.

20 I (b)(7)(C) Yes.

And he can explain what 21 22 it's based on.

23 I(b)(7)() In my opinion, I just think 24 b)never really engaged once heI (b)(7)(C) the 25 site. For some reason, I think it was like a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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25 1 (b)(7)(C) He was 2 really well thought of. He wanted to go pal around 3 with people that he was friends with. He wanted to 4 sit at his desk and command an army, but he didn't 5 want to roll up his sleeves and do any work.

6 So all the work that he was being asked to 7 do and actual procedures to write and then the I 8 c effort I think just wasn't what he had in mind.

9 I don't know what he did have in mind, but it wasn't 10 what we needed.

I(b)(7)(C) Do you recall any 11 12 discussions with F (b)(7)(C) about I (b)(7)(C) 13 performance appraisal inK (b)(7)(C) 7.

14 15 (b)(7)(C) Yes.

16 (b)()( c F ,(b)(7)(C)

(b)(7)(C) Are you referring to the 17 18 midyear performance appraisal? Midyear performance 19 development plan?

20 (b)(7)(C) I guess that 21 would be a midyear. Let me check.

22 L (b)(7)(C) I I didn't know if you were 23 asking about the specific document or just general 24 performance EPAP.

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26 1 about the specific document. I'm just interested in 2 whether or not you had any input on that evaluation.

Or was this all (b)(7)(C) responsibility?

4~ (b)(7)(C) Ilt'sJ (b()Cesponsibility to 5 write up a performance review, a midyear assessment, 6 on her people. Sometimes that would occasion input 7 from me. For example, I'm sure I gave her some input 8 on theI (b)(7)(C ) I If she didn't go to (b)(7(

9 directly, then I would have provided her with that.

10 And since I was (b)(7)(C) that likely would 11 have been the case.

12 I don't clearly recollect that, but just 13 our normal business relationship we had a really good, 14 trusting relationship. If she needed some insights i5 there, I'm sure she would have trusted me to have a 16 conversation withI (b)(7)(C) Z nd then relay back to 17 her any concerns or issues. Or any "That a boys" that 18 were due as a result of that.

19 (b)(7)(C) Do you recall 20 discussing with (b)(7)(C) about a (b)(7)(C) 21 L (b)(7)(C) being issued to b()C 22 (b)(7)(C) Yes. There were discussions 23 about developing al (b)(7)(C) Ifor 24 (b)(7)(C) 25 (b)(7)(C) Do you remember NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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27 the general time frame when those discussion took 2 place? I mean, would this have happened during the 3 (b)(7)(C)

(b)(7)(C) So our general timing, I 4

5 mean I would have to go back and look at what the --

6 (( Let's go off the record 7 for a moment.

8 (b)(7)(C) Okay.

9 I (b)(7)(C) Off the record.

10 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)

11 (b)(7)(C) We're back on the 12 record. The time is approximately 1:50 p.m.

13 And do you recall the general time frame 14 when you discussed aPwith)oncerning 15 16 I Leadership in general has 17 comments due on midyear assessments in the August to 18 September time frame. So any discussions I would have 19 had with (b(would have been in or about that period 20 of time.

(b)(7)(C) [At the time, did 21 22 you figure that a[ was a good idea in this case?

23 ( The site, as I recall, our 24 site processes called for (b)(7)(C) 25 if an employee was receiving a (bX7)(C)

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28 1 rating for one of the two major ratings that we had.

2 And I think that became mandatory to put aI (b)(7)(

3 (b)(7)(C) Iin place if somebody had a (b)(7)(O) 4 (b)(7)(C)  ! rating.

L~~J -

5 So this midyear assessment foI (b)(7)(1c} oes 6 have a (b)(7)(C) I So that would have 7 automati cally triggered work on a I (b)(7)(E) 8 I (b)(7)(C) I 9 I l

(b)(7)(C)

IWas I

it mandatory 10 at the time though?

11 FI don't know that.

12 I(b)(7)(C) -7 1C )kay.

(b)(7)(C) We'd have tc 13 check. There 14 were proce dures at the site.

15 (b)(7)(C) But it was 16 discussed anyway.

(b)(7)(C) It was discussed. Yes.

17 (b)(7)(C) 7 All right. Given 18 19 your experience here at SONGS, do you necessarily have 20 to have a _ before terminating an employee for 21 performance issues?

(b)(7)(C) No, you do not.

22 (b)(7)(C) All right. And 23 24 when I interviewed some other witnesses I spoke with 25 I (b)(7)(C) n d I spoke withI (b)(7)(C) rom (b)(7)(C)

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29 (b)(7)(C) And they brought up an issue that involved 2 (b)(7)(C) 3 (b()C b()C 4 (b)(7)(C) Yes. I believe 5 that (b)(7)(C) ent to (b7)(C) 7nd alleged that b)(

(C) 6 (bCi was putting some personal information in his 7 7) Do you remember that?

8 (b)(7)(C (b)(7)(C) alled me as I 9 remember. Sitting in my office, (b7)C)E ad called me

"_0 and said tha I ) Ec ad relayed to him that there were

.L things of a personal nature that he had relayed tc EE(

12 b)C~ and that those things had wound their way into 13 his midyear assessment. And he was very upset by 14 that. So upset he was talking to another division 15 manager.

16 Sol (b)(7)(C) *as doing me the courtesy of 17 calling and saying, "Wow. If that's the case, you 18 probably should look into that." And as I recall I 19 had access to the system at that point. I could see 20 not just my direct reports who I was doing reviews on.

21 I could see all through my organization.

22 My memory is I pulled that up, looked 23 through the entire thing and cleared that with (b)(7)(C) 24 either while I had him on the phone or I looked it up 25 and called him back that afternoon and said, "There is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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30 1 nothing in thati (b)(7)(C) Irelated 2 to the issues of personal nature that (b() aid were 3 in there" which led to a real credibility and trust 4 issue then as to what was l doing talking to 5 another division manager about things that were easily 6 verifiable and clearly was misleading (b)(7)(C) TS 7 that responsive to your question?

8 es, it is. I'm I -(b)(7)(C) 9 -- There's a follow-up question and I'm just trying to 10 formulate the question here. You attend a lot of manager type meetings. Right? Meetings in which 12 [ciIJshows up and all people underneath you.

(7)(C) Yes.

13 (b)(7)(C) You have regular 14 !l 15 leadership type meetings. Correct?

I(b)(7)(C) - That's correct.

16 17 Gi (b)(7)(C) I During any of 18 these meetings, do you recall (b)(7)(C) badmouthing or 19 criticizin E c]or his work performance?

(b)(7)(C) In an open forum?

20 21 (b)(7)(C) Yes.

(b)(7)(C) J No. Those would have been 22 23 Drivate discussions. That's not ir ature to do 24 that.

1 (b)(7)(C) I Was something 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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31 1 along these lines brought up in your conversation with (b)(7)(C) 2 (b)(7)(C)

S Something along what lines?

3 4 (b)(7)(C) Well, the fact 5 that - -

6 b)(7)(C) Are we still on this issue 7 of personal information? Or are we onto something 8 else now?

(b)(7)(C) Well, they're 9

10 somewhat related. I'm not sure if they are or not.

(b)(7)(C) I Okay.

i!

12 (b)(7)(C) That' s why I 'm 13 asking you.

(b)(-)(c) Okay. Go ahead.

14 I7 Do you understand the 15 (b)(7)(C) n  ; 1s b()C 16 relationship between (b)(7()

17

,(b)(7)(C) Okay.

18 19 (b)(7)(C) Yes. When I with (b)(7)(C) he said that he heard fro (b)(7) 20 spoke heth (C) 21

• that (b)(7)(C) .was badmouthing him during these 22 meetings. And according to (b)(7)(C) (b)(7)(C) poke up 23 and basically said, "Well, that's not the (b)(7)(C) 24 that I know." And told this t C). And well 25 you could just imagine where that went.

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32 1 I just wanted to find out whether or not 2 you heard ofi (b)(7)(C) Joor-mouthingI (b)(7)(C) during 3 these meetings in an open forum or not.

4 I (b)(7)(C) I I don't remember a 5 discussion like that. So ifIC) was there andc 6 was there that would have had to have been one of my 7 staff meetings. In staff meetings, I mean we're not 8 berating people and talking about -- So that would be 9 really uncharacteristic.

20 (b)(7)(C) Okay.

(b)(7)(C) Is it possible that aid 12 something about "I'm having real trouble" or "On

.13 assignment one of my people missed a deadline" and 14 expressing frustration, that's possible. I do not 15 remember that. But general berating and badmouthing 16 the people, that's just not part of a business 17 meeting.

18 I (b)(7)(C) I Okay. Well, I

.19 spoke withI (b)7)(C) -[ nd he denies it. But I just 20 wanted your input.

I c(b)(7)(C IHe denies?

21 22 (b)(7)(C) He denies telling 23 (b)(7)(c) that (b)(7)(C) was badmouthing him.

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33 1 (b)(7)(C) When was the 2 first time that termination was ever discussed between 3 you and (b)(7)(C) [concernin (b)(7)(C)

()7(I suppose it was an 4

5 underlying eventuality for any employee's performance 6 that doesn't turn around. But I would imagine that it 7 wasn't before we started having conversations about a midyear performance and just seeing the things in 9 spite of continued coaching through the year and 10 opportunities to change that performance by midyear I 11 would imagine we were starting to have that 12 discussion. So that would be in thisI (b)(7)(C) 13 time frame that we just talked about when she is 14 putting her comments in his midyear review.

(b)(7)(C) [Who initiated the 15 16 efforts to terminatel (b)(7)(C) Was it b()C Was it 17 you? Or was it someone else?

18 (b)(7)(C) ame to me with a 19 recommendation that she laid out her findings, laid 20 out her thinking and so forth and discussion that she 21 had been having with HR. But it was her 22 recommendation that we terminate (b)(7)(C) I 23 (b)(7)(C) Okay. Did you 24 agree with that assessment?

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34 1 facts and information, background. As I recall 2 actually having talked with I)c~ andb7I We don't 3 take these things lightly. It's a difficult decision 4 to terminate somebody from the company. So there 5 would have been a lot of discussion about that.

6 Ultimately, yes, I did concur. But it 7 would have been with considerable study.

8 (b)(7)(C) 7 Okay. Typically 9 when something like this happens -- I'm talking about 10 termination -- do you have to consult withl (b)(7)(C) 11 or whoever the (b)(7)(C) is or the 12 (b)(7)(C) Or do you need someone's concurrence before 13 these steps are taken?

14 1 (b)(,)(C) I don't know if that's 15 required. Certainly, protocol would say that I would 16 have briefed on this and provided him the 17 information he needed to get his concurrence. I don't 18 know that that's required. But that's certainly part 19 of the protocol for it.

20 A I (b)(7)(C) is a pretty high level, 21 important position at the station. And I remember 22 talking with C) about clerical staff or so forth 23 that we were terminating from the company. It wasn't 24 really to gain his concurrence or authorization but to 25 make sure that management was aware of the steps we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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35 1 were taki ng.

2 I I Do you 3 specifically recall meeting wit hl (b)(7)()

4 (b)(7)(C) Yes, I briefedlIb n this.

(b)(7)(C) Okay. And was he 5

I 6 on board?

(b)(7)(C) Yes, he was. The reason I 7

8 needed to briefE ( is because just a couple months 9 ago in I (D)(7)(C) when we had our executive offsite 10 was thought of very highly and was recommended 11 for a special assignment.

12 Over the course of the(cc that really 13 wasn't panning out. There was a lot of discussion 14 between me and )(C~ and other members of the 15 leadership to say "This isn't really panning out.

16 This guy isn't really made of what we thought he was 17 made of."

18 I(b)(7)(C) Do you remember 1.9 what the official reason was for terminatingi (b)(7)(C) 20 I mean was it failure to meet expectation? Was it 21 poor performance? Do you remember what the official 22 reason was?

()It's on the 23 SCORE 24 (phonetic) . I can't remember what that stands for.

25 It's on the SCORE document where we reviewed all that.

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36 1 I would say it's performance is what I recall. But 2 it's on the SCORE document if that's handy.

(b)(7)(C) okay 3

(b)(7)(C) Do you want to review it?

4 5 r" (b)(7)() If you want exact --

6 I (b)(7)(C) IWe can go off the 7 record just for a minute while that's done.

8 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)

(b)(7)(C) Back on the 9

10 record. The time is approximately 2:00 p.m. And you were able to review some documents in front of you, 12 sir. What was the official reason (b)(7)(C) was 13 terminated?

14 (b)(7)(C) Unsatisfactory performance.

(b)(7)(C) Okay. Thank you.

15 16 Up until this time were you aware of any concerns that 17 (b)(7)(C) I raised to (b)(7)(C) -]bout employees being 18 told that if they have a concern to raise here on site 19 they should go through their chain of command before 20 using other means? Were you ever aware of any concern 21 like that?

3 22 (b)(7)(C) I That aised?

23 (b)(7)(C) Yes.

1(b)(7)) I I was not.

24 (b)(7)(C) 25 IX~ . Were you I

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37 ever aware of that concern at any time not necessarily 2 by (b)(7)(C) ut by anyone else?

3 I (b)(7)(C) That a concern had been 4 raised about going through chain of command if you had 5 an issue? Is that the question?

6 I (b)(7)(C) I Yes, exactly.

II remember discussions with 7

8 9.1think this was regarding hat s 9 had I think more forcefully than she intended kind of 10 said, "Hey, if you've got a problem, be sure and go Ii through me. Don't just go tell7) bout it." And 12 that's actually not okay.

13 There are multiple ways to report concerns 14 including going directly to the NRC, going to any

-5 member of the management team or taking it to your 16 supervisor. So I think (b)(7)(C) ay have overstated.

17 I recall a conversation in 2010. I'd be 18 hard pressed to pinpoint that. But there was a 19 conversation sometime in 2010 whereb(C) think had 20 had a discussion with her people and it had just gone 21 too far in saying "That's got to come through me."

22 That's not our standard.

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38 1 were you ever aware of any type of friction between S(b)(7)(C)an i (b)(7)(C) n a personal level?

2 3 I (b)(7)(C) Iold me about some of 4 that friction. But directly observed I never saw any 5 of that.

6 (b)(7)(C) But you heard 7 about it.

(b)(7)(C) I heard about it.

8 (b)(7)C) Okay. i mean, 9

10 did it become problematic where it affected --

(b)( Not in anything I observed 12 directly.

13 (b)(7)(C) okay.

14 (b()C) H ol have reported 15 various interchanges they were having and difficulties 16 and she was very good about keeping me abreast of 17 those things. But directly I did not observe any of 18 that friction.

19 F (b)(7)(C) When there were 20 discussions about terminatind (b)(7)(C) bid you ever 21 get the impression thatE b))(

K ad some personal 22 animosity towards him?

(b)(7)(C) No. Absolutely not.

23 24 I(b)(7)(C) Do you have any 25 knowledge of (b)(7(C)  : etaliating against (b)(7)(C)

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39 2 because he might have raised some concerns to her abouti (b)(7)(c) 2 3 (b)(7)(C) No 4 (b)(7)(C) Counselor, do you 5 have any follow-up?

6(b)(7)(C) lNO, I don't.

7 I(b)(7)(C) All right. i 8 appreciate you taking time out of you (b)(7)(C) to 9 meet with me on this today. I appreciate your 10 patience and everything. And is there anything that 11 I didn't ask you about here this afternoon that you 12 feel is important and that you want to add for the 13 record? Anythingconcernind (b)(7)(C) OA (b)(7)(C) kr 14 anything that's relevant to this investigation?

15 (b)(7)(C) I guess I would say a couple 16 of things.

17 I (b)(7)(C) Sure.

18 (b)(7)( I think the line of 19 questioning by the way was very appropriate and 20 detailed and for the purpose for the things that 21 you're investigating. I think that fair and 22 appropriate questions were asked. I was worried about 23 that it was headed on some tangent or some slant and 24 it's not going to be -- the record is not going to be 25 full and complete. But I think the right things were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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4 40 1 discussed.

2 About EI(cj[ guess I would say she is one 3 of most kind and caring and considerate and nurturing 4 leaders I've ever worked. She is probably the fastest 5 learning manager that's ever worked for me.

6 She would ask about things that she needed 7 to do to improve. When I talked to her about things 8 that I thought she could do better or handle better 9 the next time when she ran into a similar situation 10 she worked on it immediately. She just didn't let 11 grass grow under her feet. It wasn't like she tucked 12 it away and put it in a ten year improvement plan.

13 She did it like now.

14 She's very approachable, very likeable.

15 And she knocks herself out for her people. That's why 16 for the most part the people that work for her just 17 love working for her. She sets a great environment 18 for just getting the work done.

19 A lot of it is (b)(7)(C)

(b)(7)(C) I type 20 21 thing. Some of that can get kind of tedious. And it 22 takes a special leader to be able to motivate people 23 to kind of stay at it. She's really good at creating 24 a healthy work environment where people feel like they 25 can succeed.

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41 1 So it's really surprising. I f [I) as 2 going to have problems with any leader at the station, 3 it's just so surprising that he would have trouble 4 wit E kecause she's just such a nurturing, helping, 5 doing everything she can to help you succeed kind of 6 a leader.

7 I (b)(7)(C) jDid you ever get 8 any complaints about her from her direct reports?

9 I (b)(,,(C, I None from her direct 10 reports. Lots of praise. Lots of positive comments.

11 Never any criticism. I had positive comments from my 12 peers at the station. I had positive comments from 13 their direct reports, other managers at the station.

14 There was just lots of positive feedback.

15 (b(7 evels. I would have()()nd n 16 my office commenting about what a great and capable 17 leader E was. So there was a lot of positive 18 feedback coming from her.

19 And we worked really closely. We were 20 L (b)(7)(C) - We saw each other 21 a lot. I had a lot of people reporting to me. It was 22 tough to keep up with all my areas when your 23 responsibilities are that broad. But she was very 24 good about keeping me posted.

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42 1 have a problem with[fkj'A I I (b)(7)(C) Okay.

2 3 L (b)(7)(C) JI have nothing further.

4 (b)(7)(C) Nothing. Okay.

(b)(7)(C) have I or any other NRC 5

6 representative threatened you in any manner or offered 7 you any reward in return for this statement?

J (b)7)(C)No.

8 (b)(7)(C)

I Have You aiven 9

10 this statement freely and voluntarily?

(b)(7)(C) Yes, I have.

(b)(7)(C) t this time, the 12 13 interview will be concluded. The time is 14 approximately 2:10 p.m. Off the record.

25 (Whereupon, at 2:10 p.m., the above-16 entitled matter was concluded.)

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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:

Name of Proceeding: Interview of (b)(7)(C)

Docket Number: 4-2011-059 Location: San Clemente, California were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and adcurate record of the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape(s) provided by the NRC.

(b)(7)(C)

ý.tffiAil Transcriber Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

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