ML20207G459
| ML20207G459 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Braidwood  |
| Issue date: | 07/18/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#386-137 OL, NUDOCS 8607230076 | |
| Download: ML20207G459 (124) | |
Text
O UN11ED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 1 a
01G.NAL l JN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO:
BRAIDWOOD STATION 50-456/457-OL UNITS 1 52 COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY (EVIDENTIARY HEARING)
O LOCATION: JOLIET, ILLINOIS PAGES: 8336 - 8458 DATE: FRIDAY, JULY 18, 1986 I
/
6 I Q ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
Offic:alReporters 444 North CapitolStreet i8 Washington, D.C. 20001 agf2200ckb00Q6 (202) 347-3700 NATIOmVICE COVERACE
8336 O
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4
--- L L: LL L - Lx 5 :
In the Matter of: :
6 : Docket No. 50-456 OL COMMONWEALTB EDISON COMPANY : 50-457 OL 7 :
(Braidwood Station, Units 1 :
8 and 2) :
- LLL L L L L - L L 2x 9
10 Pages 8336 - 8458 11 College of St. Francis 500 North Wilcox Street
(} 12 Joliet, Illinois 60435
. 13 Friday, July 18, 1986.
14 The hearing in the above-entitled matter reconvened 15 at 8:10 A. M.
i 16 17 BEFORE:
18 JUDGE HERBERT GROSSMAN, Chai rman Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 19 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D. C.
20 JUDGE RICH ARD F. COLE, Member, 21 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board I U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 22 Washington, D. C.
23 JUDGE A. DIXON CALLIHAN, Member, Atomic Saf ety and Licensing Board i 24 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission l Washington, D. C.
[}
APPEARANCES:
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(I) !
1 On behalf of the Applicant:
2 !
MICHAEL I. MILLER, ESQ. ;
3 JOSEPH GALLO, ESQ. :
EL EN A Z . KEZELIS, ESQ.
4 Isham, Lincoln & Beale Three First National Plaza 5 Chicago, Illinois 60602 6 On behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory commission Staff:
7 ELAINE I. CH AN , ESQ.
8 GREGORY ALAN BERRY, ESQ.
U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 9 7335 Old Georgetown Road Bethesda, Maryland 20014 10 On behalf of the Intervenors:
11 ROBERT GUILD, ESQ.
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 I
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1 EXHIBIT INDEX Marked Received 2 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 62 8396 8415 3 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 63 8418 8422 4 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 64 8424 8431 5 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 65 8437 8437 6
7 WITNESS INDEX 8 TESTIMONY OF RICHARD L. MARTIN (Continued)
J VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION 10 BY MR. GUILD: 8346 1
i' 11 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
BY MR. GUILD: 8376 12
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l 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN : The hearing is reconvened.
2 This is the 41st day of hearing.
3 Mr. Gallo, do you have a preliminary matter?
4 MR. GALLO: Yes, your Honor. Thank you.
5 My suggestion that we would be able to serve our i
6 answer to Mr. Guild's pleading today -- that is, his i 7 pleading on motion for subpoena and other alternative 8 relief -- was ambitious. It turned out to be too 4
9 ambitious.
i 10 I'm not prepared to file it today, but I am
. 11 prepared to file it in Washington with the Board in 12 Bethesda Monday.
{]}
i 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. I hope you can find
! 14 some reasons during the weekend.
15 (Laughter.)
16 MR. GALLO: The inability to file should not 17 be construed as an inability to find reasons.
18 MR. GUILD: This puts us in a difficult -
l 19 situation because it will preclude us from responding to i
20 Applicant.
21 The Chair had acknowledged that if there was a need 22 for some response, that leave would be granted to 23 respond to the pleading, and I just ask that that point 24 be considered when the Board is deliberating.
i () 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, is there any way Sonntag ReportingJer-vice,-_Ltd:
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's 1 you can get a copy to Mr. Guild in South Carolina over 2 the weekend or on Monday?
3 MR. GALLO: We, of course, can hand-deliver 4 it on Monday to Mr. Cassel.
5 Is Mr. Cassel handling this or are you involved as 6 well? ,
1 7 MR. GUILD: I am as well, but I guess the 8 real problem is no turnaround time.
9 Even if you got it physically to either me or my 10 colleague, if the Board is going to be deliberating on 11 Monday or Tuesday, it hardly helps to serve the document 12 that day.
l
{]}
13 I just would say, Mr. Chairman, if -- our position 14 is stated in the pleadings. If there's something novel 15 in Applicant's position that the Board finds persuasive, 16 we'd like an opportunity to respond.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Okay.
18 Well, then, maybe if that happens, then maybe we 19 would hold off. If, in our judgment, there is something 20 like that, we'll hold off with our filing until a few 21 days later.
22 MR. GUILD: Fine.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I have some other 24 preliminary matters.
() 25 I just want to make a correction to the transcript Sonntaq Reporting Service,_Ltd.
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8341 1 on -- without going through the sentence, it was when 2 Mr. Martin was out of the room.
3 On Page 8321, Line 13, I said "isn't" rather than 4 "is." Perhaps I should have said "isn' t just. " But 5 that correction is being noted right now, so we won't 6 bother correcting the page itself.
7 MR. GALLO: Page 8321, your Honor?
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Yes, Line 13, 9 MR. GALLO: Oh, I'm sorry.
10 The correction should be "isn't" or "is not"?
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Right.
12 Anything further in the way of preliminary matters
{]}
13 or can we resume with Mr. Martin?
14 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir.
15 MR. GALLO: I hat? nothing further.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Proceed, Mr. Guild.
17 MR. GUILD: Good morning, Mr. Martin.
18 THE WITNESS: Good morning.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, I'm sorry, One more 20 thing.
21 I would like to have a date certain to have Mr.
22 Kurtz come in for a few minutes here. Next week I think 23 is taken up with Mr. Hunter.
24 Mr. Kurtz I think will take 15 minutes, so if we O(_/ 25 can set him for the next week, either Monday or Tuesday i
l l
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1 morning --
2 MR. GALLO: Which is the pleasure of the 3 Board?
4 I think we can accommodate either.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Why don' t we set it for 6 Tuesday morning and see if that interferos with anyone's 7 plans.
8 Tell us next week whether that can be confirmed.
9 Okay, fine. I'm sorry, Mr. Guild.
10 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chai rman, I was just reminded 11 of another point.
(} 12 For the record, we will be calling Mr. Hunter as 13 the next witness to begin on Wednesday afternoon when we 14 reconvene, and we may indeed have to interrupt Mr.
15 Martin's examination at that time.
16 Since Mr. Hunter is from out of town, we thought it 17 best to take him in one fell swoop.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's fine with the Board.
19 To explain it to Mr. Martin, you may have to come 20 back if we're not completed today with your examination.
21 You'd come back maybe not even next week but the week 22 after.
23 THE WITNESS: Okay.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Okay, fine, Mr. Guild.
f~h l (_) 25 MR. GALLO: Judge Grossman, there is the Sonntas_ Reporting _ Service,_Ltd.
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1 matter of Mr. Martin's notebooks.
2 I do not want to unduly interrupt counsel's 3 examination, but at some point I'd like the opportunity 4 to review those documents and perhaps make copies of 5 them.
s I assume Mr. Martin has them with him this morning.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Do you have them?
8 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild, before you 10 complete your examination, do you want to see those 11 notebooks?
(} 12 MR. GUILD: Yes. I have no problem with 13 trying to take care of that now.
14 Mr. Martin, perhaps you could make those documents 15 available to us. If you have them with you, if you 16 could just identify what you've brought with you for the 17 record.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Then we'll take a 19 recess and counsel can review those documents.
20 MR. GUILD: Fine.
21 THE WITNESS: These are the 3-by-5 notebooks 22 that we used. These are the 8-and-a-half-by-11 pages we 23 used mainly for like configuration hanger inspections.
24 (Indicating.)
() 25 That's it.
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1 MR. GUILD: Could you tell me for what period 2 of time the respective records were that you brought 3 over, Mr. Martin?
4 THE WITNESS: Well, these are mainly --
5 (Indicating.)
6 MR. GUILD: Those are the notebooks, now, 7 you're talking about?
4 8 THE WITNESS: Yes.
9 The notebooks are -- I have the dates on the front.
10 Notebook No.1 is f rom 8/26/81 to 10/14/81.
11 Notebook No. 2 is from 10/16/81 to 12/7/81.
{} 12 Notebook No. 3 is f rom 12/14/81 to 2/2/82.
13 There's going to be some overlapping of times in 14 these books because I lost one for a little bit and then 15 I found it again.
le No. 4 is from 11/30/81 to 3/9/82.
17 Notebook No. 5 is f rom 3/11/82 to 6/4/82.
18 Notebook No. 6 is f rom 6/7/82 to 7/16/82.
19 Notebook No. 7 is f rom 4/6/83 to 6/10/83.
20 Notebook No. 8, the last one, is f rom 6/14/83 to 1
21 8/31/ 83. '
l 22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Could you identify the other 23 materials?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes, okay.
() 25 These are -- these are notes we took for S on n t as_R ep_o r t i_ng_S e r_v_i p e , L t d .
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! I configuration inspections, and they cover quite a range.
2 (Indicating.)
3 MR. GUILD: Quite a range of what, Mr.
i
- 4 Martin; dates, you mean?
5 THE WITNESS: From -- yes, from around the 6 end of '83 -- say, about September, October of '83 --
7 back to September of '81.
8 That's about all I can say about them.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
10 Why don' t we take a 10-minute recess now and have 11 counsel review those documents.
12 THE WITNESS: And also there's some memos
[}
13 here concerning some of the inspections performed, where
! 14 I got engineering assistance.
15 (Indicating.)
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
17 Now we' re going off the record.
18 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which 19 the proceedings were resumed as follows:)
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Back on the record.
21 Mr. Guild, continue.
l 22 MR. GUILD: We've had an opportunity to 23 review some of the documents over the break, and I think
, 24 we've agreed among counsel that Applicant is going to 1
() 25 take custody of Mr. Martin's records he's brought in and k
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8346 1 make copies over the weekend.
2 Before we leave this subject, though, Mr. Martin, 3 I'd like for you to explain -- repeat a little bit of 4 the explanation that you gave off the record to the 5 parties of the method by which you kept the records that 6 you've brought with you today.
7 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. GUILD:
9 0 If you take the first of the notebooks, the earliest 10 notebook you have -- do you have that in f ront of you?
11 A Yes, I do now.
{} 12 O All right.
13 If you'd just turn to the first page and tell us 14 how you -- I see a list of numbers and a date at the top 15 of the page.
16 Can you tell us what those numbers represent, 17 please?
18 A Okay. I just kept the basic format that the hanger was 19 entered first -- well, excuse me. I'll back up.
20 At the beginning of the day, I would enter the date 21 in a page of the notebook; and then when I went to an 22 area to inspect, I would write the drawing number dowr.
23 and I would get the rev of the drawing.
24 Then I would list the hanger, and then straight
() 25 across I would list the welder number, as in the person e
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1 welding the hanger.
2 0 Let me stop you there.
3 When did you enter the information you've just
! 4 described, the drawing number and rey; before you went i 5 to the field or at the time you went into the field?
6 A Either-or.
7 0 Okay.
8 A If -- if I knew where I was going, I would look it up 9 there. I'd usually get a drawing and bring it with me.
10 0 When did you enter the hanger number?
11 A At the time of the inspection.
(} 12 0 Af ter you performed the inspection?
13 A Yes.
14 0 And at the same time, would you list then the welder 15 number?
16 A Yes.
17 0 All right.
18 And would that welder number be on the basis of 19 seeing the stamp on the weld or seeing the number on a 20 piece of paper, such as the installation report?
21 A It would be solely on the stamp on the hanger.
22 0 You'd transpose the number you physically saw on the 23 component onto your notebook?
24 A Yes.
l () 25 0 Okay.
1.
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1 1 Continue, if you would.
i 2 Was there additional information you listed?
3 A Yes.
l 4 And then af ter the welder's ID, I listed the number 5 of welds in the far right-hand side.
6 0 How did you derive that information?
7 A I just physically counted the welds that were on the 8 hanger.
9 0 Physically observed them in the field?
10 A Yes.
11 0 All right.
{} 12 Now, when you entered this inf ormation, did it 13 indicate that the component was acceptable, the weld was 14 found acceptable?
15 A Well, with the system I had, it would indicate to me 16 that -- whether or not it was acceptable.
17 If I had some welds that were unacceptable, I would i 18 write the deficiencies in my notebook. I would mark the l
).
19 welds in the field as such, red-flag the hanger and then 20 notify the welder that they had to repair some welds.
21 0 All right.
22 When you say you marked the welds in the field, 23 you'd mark them with a black marker; is that right?
24 A Yes.
() 25 0 You'd circle the deficient weld or the portion of the Sonntag leporling_Serrice,_Ltd, Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 weld that was deficient?
2 A Yes.
3 0 would you make some other mark on the component, 4 indicating the nature of the deficiency?
5 A Yes.
6 0 Could you describe what that mark would be?
7 A We used an initial system. Like "UC" was undercut.
8 "SL" was slag. "AS" was arc strike. "CL" was cold lap.
]
9 "IF," insufficient fusion; "IL," insufficient leg; l
10 "IT," insufficient throat.
- 11 0 And would you indicate those deficiencies on any of the 12 Comstock quality documents, such as the Form 19?
(~}
13 A Only if we wrote an Inspection Correction Report against 14 the deficient velds.
15 0 All right.
16 And as I understood from yesterday's testimony, you 17 only did so -- you only issued an ICR if the welder did 18 not correct the deficiency promptly or in a reasonable 19 time; is that right?
20 A Yes, but also we would go to the foremen. We would 21 usually ask them if they could fix them immediately. If 22 they couldn' t fix them immediately, we would write it 23 up.
24 Q Or if the foreman told you they couldn't fix them
( 25 immediately?
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1 A Yes.
2 O But otherwise, if either the foreman told you that they 3 could fix them immediately or if you understood that 4 they were going to be repaired, the only record of the 5 deficient work that you found would be in your personal 6 notebook?
7 A If the welds were still rejectable and they were not l 8 stamped by me -- so if they were definitely not 9 acceptable, somebody could probably tear the red flag 10 off the hanger, get some -- some solvent and wipe the 11 writing off, but then they'd have nothing.
(~} 12 Q I didn't mean to suggest that there wasn't an indication N_e 13 that you had found it rejectable.
14 But that indication was on the component itself by 15 the marking and the tagging that was not in the Comstock 16 quality document; it was only in your personal notebook?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
19 It wasn't even in your notebook, as far as the 20 particular weld, was it?
21 THE WITNESS: No, not the particular weld.
22 MR. GUILD: That's indeed correct.
23 BY MR. GUILD:
24 Q How did you note it in your notebook if there was a
( 25 deficient weld on a particular component?
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1 A I just marked the type of deficiency -- such as slag, 2 undercut -- and the specifics were marked on the hanger 3 itself --
4 0 All right.
5 A -- with black marker.
6 0 So if I were looking at your notebook, there would be a 7 number for the hanger, a number for the welder, his 8 stamp number and then an indication, by using your 9 initial system, that one or more of the welds on that 10 particular component were found to be rejectable?
11 A Well, I usually didn' t even put the welder number down.
12 I just put the hanger number and the deficiencies.
[]}
13 Q Okay.
14 So there would be an indication in your notebook 15 only that there was a deficiency on that particular 16 hanger, not which weld and not which welder?
17 A That's correct.
18 0 All right.
19 Now, there were some asterisks that appear in the 20 notebook.
21 Can you explain what those asterisks mean?
22 A Those identified the hangers that I had completed my 23 documentation on as far as the Form 19 and the PTL cover 24 sheet is concerned.
() 25 0 And when did you put the asterisks in your notebook?
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1 A At the time I completed the paperwork.
2 0 Is there any indication in the notebook as to the date ,
3 on which you dated and signed the Form 19?
4 A No, there isn't.
5 0 Is there any cross-reference between the information in 6 your notebook and the specific Form 19 that you 7 completed f or that installation?
8 A No, there isn't.
9 0 You use highlighting on occasion in your notebook, Mr.
10 Ma r ti n.
11 Could you explain what the highlighting signifies?
(} 12 13 A In some cases, I couldn't turn in a lot of the iteras . .
that I inspected that day; so instead of just putting an 14 asterisk over the general entry, I highlighted one by 15 one those that I turned in.
16 I used highlighting for other reasons, also, which 17 I cannot remember at this time; but I had used it for 18 that reason on occasion.
19 0 okay.
)
20 Are there some cases in your notebook where you 21 identified deficiencies that weren't corrected at the 22 time and you, theref ore, documented only the acceptable 23 items on a checklist and did not list the unacceptable 24 ones?
() 25 A Yes.
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1 0 And then I take it they would be corrected later; and 2 you'd later issue a checklist for the balance, the ones 3 that you found initially rejectable?
4 A Yes.
5 0 And is there an indication in the notebook as to those 6 circumstances where you only documented a portion of the 7 work that you inspected, because some portions were 8 rejectable?
9 A Yes.
10 0 How do you show that in your notebook? ;
11 A The first case -- I have highlighted acceptable hangers, 12 and all the deficient hangers were not highlighted. So
{ '}
13 that tells me basically that I didn' t do that.
14 0 Is there any other indication, aside from the 15 highlighting, that that's the condition that you are 16 documenting in that case?
17 A Later on in my inspections, I don't believe I even 18 listed deficient hangers in my notebook. I would only 19 list acceptable ones.
20 0 All right.
21 So later on at a point, you didn't make any 22 documentation of the initial identification of deficient 23 work; is that right?
24 A Well, let me -- I'd better double-check that before I --
) 25 0 Okay.
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1 A -- put my foot in my mouth.
2 No. I have to take back that statement I made 3 about later inspections.
4 I did list all the -- through my history here, I 5 did list deficient hangers.
6 0 Well, I cee some listing of deficient hangers later on.
7 You just checked the notebook, didn't you?
8 A Yes.
9 0 All right.
i 10 Do you know whether you listed all deficient i
] 11 hangers over time?
{} 12 A I'm sure there are some hangers that I looked at that if 13 I was close to the foreman and I knew that he could take 14 care of the situation, that I probably wouldn't document 15 i t --
16 0 All right.
17 A -- in my notebook.
18 Q All right.
19 Or on the checklist?
20 A Yes.
21 0 But just in the field by marking the component?
22 A Yes. l 23 0 Okay.
24 Now, there's another stack of paper here.
() 25 I won't take the time this morning to go through l
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1 it, but this is a stack of configuration notes; is that 2 right?
, 3 A Yes, sir.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Before you get to that, 5 after you had marked some deficient welds in the field 6 with a marker, what then -- what then happened with that 7 weld?
8 THE WITNESS: Well, I would go to the 9 foreman, and I would ask him to have the weld repaired.
10 Then I would make cure that he knew what had to be done.
11 Most of the time I would take the foreman around
(} 12 and show him, "This hanger needs this," and, you know, 13 show him exactly what I rejected, what I wanted to see 14 corrected. Then he would have the work done.
15 If the work wasn' t done in a timely manner, then I 16 would write it up; or if I went to the foreman and he 17 said, "Look. I'm just too busy. I can' t look at them 18 now," I'd just go ahead and write them up.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
20 But let's say the work was done.
21 Would the foreman then contact you or would you 22 contact the foreman?
23 THE WITNESS: Either-or. It was about 50-50, 24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And you would go out to the
( 25 field then and inspect that component again?
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8356 i 1 THE WITNESS: Yes.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And would the markings still 3 be on for the -- or would the workers, craf t people, 4 take the markings off?
5 THE WITNESS: Sometimes they would.
6 In such a case, if I was not sure that I understood J
7 or recalled exactly what I had marked up, we would do a 8 complete reinspection. That was --
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Did you then record.that in 10 your notebook again? - -
11 THE WITNESS: Yes.
(} 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's when you did a l 13 complete reinspection. -
14 Now, also, when you just reinspected what you 15 believed was the -- were the deficient welds, you'.d 16 record that also in your notebook on a different date?
17 THE WITNESS: Yes, I believe sometimes I 18 would do that. ,-
19 But also sometimes if I had room, I would cross out the deficiency and write the welder numbe'd and the
~
20 21 number of welds above the deficiency.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's fine.
23 Mr. Guild?
i 24 BY MR. GUILD:
) 25 Q And following that 'same point, Mr. Martin, if you
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1 followed the practice you've just described to the 2 Chairman, would you note by the original entry that you 3 had reinspected it on a second date?
4 A Yes, I would have.
5 Q So there would be a second date on that page by the --
6 A No. It would just be an entry under another date and 7 time in the notebook.
8 0 Okay.
9 I heard you describe two practices to the Chairman.
10 One was, having found the deficiency initially, you'd go 11 back at a later time and you'd find that it's 12 acceptable.
[}
13 In one case you say that on the second day, you 14 would write a new entry for reinspection --
'S A Right.
16 0 -- correct, showing the acceptable second inspection?
17 A Yes.
18 0 But then I heard you describe a second case, where, if 19 you had enough room, you'd simply go back to the 20 original entry?
21 A Right. That's if a weld was repaired the same day.
22 0 I see.
23 A See, if I went and looked at it in the morning, usually 24 I could have them fixed in the afternoon.
() 25 In that case when I went back at the end of the day l
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8358 1 to look at them, I could just, you know, cross out the 2 deficiencies in the notebook and then write the number 3 of' welds, and then I could turn all of it in at the same 4 time.
5 0' All right.
6 I take it there's no procedure -- no Comstock 7 quality procedure that describes the method of 8 maintaining these notes of inspection results?
9 A No.
10 0 This is your own system?
11 A Yes.
{} 12 Did you ever write down how you did the system?
Q 13 A No, sir.
14 0 You' re de",cribing it as you recall it today?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 JUDGE CALLIH AN: Excuse me, Mr. Guild.
17 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir.
18 Go ahead, Judge Callihan.
19 JUDGE CALLIH AN : Was the use of the notebook 20 generally accepted throughout each -- did each inspector 21 have a stack of notebooks like this?
22 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
23 JUDGE CALLIH AN : If there were a deficiency, 24 if it were repaired today, if the welder took away your
) 25 markings, did you -- and as I understand, your notebook S on ritas_Renor_ ting _Ee mi_c_e_,_L t d Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8359 1 only showed the component; the hanger, let's say.
2 Then what did you do; rely on your memory as to 3 which of the many welds that were present on that hanger 4
4 was the one which had been deficient?
5 THE WITNESS: If we could not discern exactly 6 what we had written up on our initial inspection, we 7 would perform a complete reinspection.
8 Usually if a welder did that to me, I would really 9 get on him; just my personal standpoint, I guess.
I 10 JUDGE CALLIH AN : I missed the point, I 11 believe, about the welder identification.
j
{} 12 13 At the outset, I understood you to say that you put in the date and the drawing; then when you went in the 14 field, you wrote down the hanger and you wrote down the 15 hammer number.
16 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Then later I heard you make 18 a remark -- later this morning I heard you make a remark 19 that there was sometimes when you didn't put down the 20 welder number.
21 Now, what did I miss there?
22 THE WITNESS: When there was a deficient item 23 on the hanger, I would not put the welder number into my 24 notebook many times. Sometimes I did; sometimes I
() 25 didn't.
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i 1 JUDGE CALLIH AN: So generally, then, you put 2 the hammer number in after you had made the inspection 3 and found it to be -- the item to be acceptable?
4 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
5 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Why did you not put the 6 welder number in?
l 7 THE WITNESS: -It was not required.
I 8 We could fill out an Inspection Correction Report, 9 list the hangers and the deficiencies, and that was all 10 that was required to complete our documentation.
11 JUDGE CALLIH AN: All right. Thank you.
{} 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yesterday I thought I heard 13 you say that you used to inspect on the order of about 14 100 welds a day.
l l
15 Is that so?
! 16 THE WITN ESS : Yes, sir. You'll be able to 17 see how many.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, that's what I wanted i
j 19 -
to know.
20 Looking at your notebooks now, which would even 21 more refresh your recollection than just relying on your 22 memory, is that confirmed in the notebooks?
23 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
i ( 25 Now, when you f ound deficient welds, you would have Sonntaa Reporting __SerXice, Ltd.
1 Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 1
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1 the workmen come back.
2 Could you expect -- let's say, you had 100 welds --
3 that if you had even as much as six or seven deficient 4 welds, that they'd be able to rework them before you 5 came back?
6 I mean, wouldn't that be a problem with logistics 7 there, having people, craftsmen, crawling around the 8 welds, as I heard one witness say earlier, if that's the 9 system you used?
10 THE WITNESS: It -- it varied.
11 Sometimes if, you know -- like if I found some
{} 12 13 deficient welds at lunch, when I took a break, I'd go to the foreman before I went to lunch and tell him I had, 14 you know, some items that needed to be repaired.
15 Sometimes the foreman would come up and ask me how 16 things were going. Sometimes a welder would f ollow me 17 around.
18 If I could get a welder to just assist me, if I 19 found some deficient items, they would be repaired right 20 on the spot. Most foremen requested that procedure.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, the question I really 22 had was: I can understand how this system worked when 23 you had one or two deficient welds.
< 24 But was there ever a case in which you had a large
() 25 number of deficient welds -- say, on the order of at S onn e n g n eporling_S erv_ ice ,__Ltd e Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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.( )
1 least 10 welds -- where you could have them come back 2 and correct them while apparently they had been working l
3 on some other portion of the plant?
4 THE WITNESS: Well, yes. We could have them 5 come back and -- and repair the welds that -- that they 6 -- that were deficient.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN : Okay, fine.
i 8 Mr. Guild, continue.
9 BY MR. GUILD:
10 0 What if you identify a significant number of deficient 11 welds -- and I'm not -- this is my terminology, so you 12 tell me if it's off base.
[}
13 But let's say you' re doing 100 in a day and you 14 find more than 10 that are deficient, and the welder 15 simply can't finish correcting the 10 that you found 16 that were deficient during the course of the day.
17 But you hadn't issued any ICR's for those because ~
18 the foreman had told you that they could fix them 19 immediately; he just turned out to be wrong.
l 20 What documentation practice would you follow then
! 21 if, at the end of your day, you f ound that they hadn't 22 fixed all of the 10, let's say?
23 A I would come back the next day or whenever.I could get 24 back there.
() 25 Q All right.
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l j 1 Would you in that case change your approach and go i
{ 2 back and issue an ICR for all of the 10 that you had 3 found?
i 4 A Yes, in some cases I would do that.
5 Q But some of the 10 had already been fixed?
6 A Yes.
I 7 0 So would some -- in some cases would you simply leave .it l 8 in your notebook as an. incomplete inspection?
I 9 A If that case did arrive -- arise, it would -- it still j 10 would not be an accepted item.
11 It would be something that was, you know -- it
(} 12 would be added to the backlog, so to speak. It would be 13 passed by. It wouldn't be accepted.
14 Q All right.
i l 15 But you might not document on a quality document 16 that you had found those deficiencies --
17 A Oh, I see.
j 18 Q -- is that true?
l 19 A Yes, that's true.
20 0 Okay.
21 Counsel for Applicant asked me -- and I think it's i
22 a good practice -- if we could just have you describe i 23 generally how you maintained these configuration notes.
, 24 That's the other stack of documents that you brought
.( ) 25 with you today.
i l
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1 (Indicating.)
2 Can you just run through the top, if that's a 3 representative one, the top document, and describe for 4 us how you maintained it?
5 Let me identify it first. It has a date of 3/14/83 6 on the top.
7 Is that a date, in fact?
8 A Yes, it is, and the dates on these forms are -- would 9 indicate more a date that we started an inspection in a 10 certain area.
11 I broke my sheets up mainly into drawing areas, so 12 the dates do not indicate the date of the inspection.
(]}
13 They do not indicate the date the documentation was 14 filled out.
15 They simply show the date that we started in an 16 area.
17 0 okay.
18 You maintained these documents, the same piece of 19 paper, over a number of days.
20 Is that what I understand?
21 A Yes.
22 0 Okay.
23 A And on these sheets of notebook paper, we would take 24 some of the items that -- take the items that were on
() 25 our inspection documentation and put them on our Sonntag_ Reporting _ Service,_Ltd.
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U 1 checklist here.
2 Then when we went out in the field, we would check 3 the items that we were required to check.
4 0 Okay.
5 You've got a number -- why don' t you identify the 6 columns reading f rom lef t to right on the page?
7 A Okay. First I have the hanger number. Then I have the 8 connection type.
9 0 Is that a detail identification?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q Okay.
r' 12 A Then I have the welder number and the QC identification, b) 13 Then I have the location.
14 0 Can you point to me where the location is indicated?
15 A (Indicating.)
16 Q All right.
17 There's several -- it says " location," " dimension,"
18 " fabrication" and " aux steel."
19 Those are places for checkmarks?
20 A Yes, sir.
i 21 0 Those are inspection attributes that you looked at?
22 A Yes.
23 We checked the location in the field to make sure 24 that it's proper. We checked the dimensions of the
() 25 hanger. We checked the fabrication to make sure it's Sonntag Reporting Servicer _Ltd.
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1 fabricated properly, and we checked the aux steel and 2 all the attributes of the aux steel.
3 We noted the conduit number, and then I have 4 remarks.
5 0 There's a column for conduit number -- and you have 6 numbers listed there -- and then a column for remarks?
7 A Yes.
8 0 What do you enter in the remarks section?
9 What was your practice for remarks?
10 A Sometimes field-installed conditions were different from 11 the design drawings, but they were acceptable
{} 12 13 alternates. I would list the acceptable alternate.
Any deficiencies, any ICR's -- excuse me -- any 14 FCR's, Field Change Requests, or Engineering Change 15 Notices I would list; any other notes that might be 16 applicable to the inspection.
17 0 Okay.
f 18 Now, on the column that you indicated is third f rom 19 the left, there's the welder number and a QC mark; is l
20 that correct?
21 A Yes, that's correct.
22 O And what is the QC mark that you indicated there?
23 A It's -- it looks kind of like an arrow or a Christmas 24 tree.
(~h s_/ 25 0 What does that mean? l i
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1 A That's the QC stamp.
2 0 That's a stamp for the person who had done the welding 3 inspection before you?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 0 Okay.
- 6 And each QC Inspector had a unique stamp?
7 A Yes, sir.
! 8 0 So you just simply copied the stamp that you observed 9 next to the -- next to the weld; is that right?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 0 When did you enter the information that you have just l
{} 12 13 described? When did you put it on your notes?
A At the time of the inspection.
14 0 Okay.
15 Hanger numbers at the time of the inspection?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 0 Okay.
18 In the field?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 0 All right.
21 And welder and OC mark in the field?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 0 Okay.
24 You made the checkmarks for the various attributes
() 25 as you observed them?
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q All right.
3 And you wrote down the conduit number as you 4 observed it?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 0 And how did you derive the conduit number?
7 A Either f rom the drawings or f rom the identification in 8 the field.
9 0 There's a mark on the conduit?
10 A Yes. '
11 Q All right.
j
(} 12 But sometimes you took it from the drawing; 13 sometimes f rom the field-observed condition?
14 A Yes.
15 0 Okay, all right.
16 How did you indicate rejectable conditions, again, 17 for configurations?
18 A In the remarks.
19 0 I notice that you used checkmarks in -- under those 20 columns for the variance acceptance criteria.
- 21 Where you found a condition that was initially 22 rejectable, were there ever instances where you simply 23 withheld putting the checkmark in and got the condition
[ 24 corrected at the time?
j
() 25 A Well, with a configuration problem, it cannot be i S on nt ag_R e po rting_S e rv_ic e ,_L t d .
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l corrected. Documentation has to be generated, unless 2 like you have a loose bolt or something.
1 But 95 percent of the time, you will be generating 4 a Nonconformance Report.
5 0 Let's say you had a bolted connection and you found a 6 loose bolt.
7 That would be a rejectable condition, wouldn' t it?
8 A Yes, it would.
9 0 would you note that on your notes here?
10 A Yes, I would.
11 Q okay.
12 And how would you note that?
{~}
13 A I would -- I'd just put it in the remarks.
14 0 okay.
4 15 Now, there's some highlighting on the first page 16 that you' re using as the example.
17 What does the highlighting mean?
18 A It means that the hangers were written on a form LKC 19 documentation.
20 0 What information that you observed in the field got 21 transposed onto the Comstock quality document?
22 A All the information that was required. j 23 0 Can you tell us what that was?
i 24 Can you recall now what information the forms '
() 25 called for?
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1 A Hanger number, connection type, the welder number, QC 2 ID, conduit number.
3 Q Did you copy all the information that you had on your 4 personal notes onto a Comstock document?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay.
7 Including your remarks?
8 A Only if it was necessary.
9 0 Let me ask you this: Why didn't you just use a Comstock 10 quality document, then, to record the conditions you 11 observed for the configuration inspections, instead of
(} 12 your notes?
13 A This is just the way we started doing it. It's just the 14 way we did it.
l 15 0 Okay.
16 That's the way you were trained to do it?
- 17 A Well, I wasn't told to go out and do it this way, but I 18 never saw or witnessed anybody taking forms out and I 19 filling them out in the field.
20 I don't know. You can take it whatever way you 21 want to.
22 0 All right.
- 23 Was there a checklist quality document that was 24 provided for by procedure for configuration inspections?
() 25 A Yes, there was.
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O 1 0 But you didn't observe inspectors using those checklists 2 as they actually performed their inspections?
3 A No, I didn't.
4 0 Was your practice a practice that you observed others 5 performing?
6 By that, I mean keeping the notes that you've 7 described for configuration inspections.
8 A Yes, it is.
9 0 All right, sir.
10 Now, you also brought a stack of documents with 11 you. Let me just note that there appear to be 12 Read
{} 12 and Reply Memos, and some of them are multiple copies of 13 the same.
14 There are -- there's a November 18, '82, 15 configuration class memo.
16 There is a "for reference only" cover sheet for a 17 weld inspection and two Form 19 checklists.
18 Can you identify the handwriting on those?
19 (Indicating.)
1 20 A That's Bruce Brown. l 21 0 Was this a training document used -- l 22 A Yes, it was.
23 0 -- to instruct you on how to fill out the Form 19's?
24 .A Yes.
() 25 0 Then I see one sheet of notebook paper with handwriting S onntag_R e po r ting _S e r v. ice , _Ltd e Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 on it, entitled " Suggestions for Filjng of ICR's/NCR's."
2 Whose handwriting is that?
3 A That's my handwriting.
4 I didn't realize it was in there. That was just 5 some notes I was taking. I didn't realize it was in 6 there. I don't know what bearing it would have.
7 0 Is it a reflection of some information that was given to 8 you on that subject?
9 A It looks like I stopped short on this.
10 0 okay.
11 A We -- we had a problem with -- with our configuration
(} 12 inspection, where we would go out and inspect a hanger; and part of our criteria on the configuration inspection 13 14 was to note the weld -- weld inspector's ID.
15 Well, we were given permission to go ahead and 16 inspect the hanger but leave the checklist in suspense, 17 based simply upon that there was no welder stamp on the 18 hanger. So these checklists were building up in the 19 suspense filings.
20 Then when the welding inspectors went out and 21 closed the welding ICR's, they were not aware that there 22 was an open form 7 configuration checklist also on these 23 hangers. So they ended up -- we had a lot of closed 24 ICR's, but yet we had a lot of Form 7's in suspense.
( 25 This was a suggestion to alleviate this problem I Sonntag_ Reporting _ Service,_Ltd.
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1 was going to submit.
2 0 And you didn't submit it, I take it?
3 You didn' t complete it?
4 A No.
5 0 So in those cases where you didn't observe welder ID 6 stamps on the components, you were informed that it was 7 acceptable to simply hold the checklist in suspense?
8 A Yes.
9 If all the items were acceptable -- well, even if 10 they weren't, we could go ahead and inspect a hanger, 11 and it would be in suspense in lieu of the weld l {} 12 inspection.
13 Q All right.
14 Well, if the welds were there and they had been 15 perf ormed but there was no welder ID stamp, wasn' t that 16 a deficient condition?
17 A Weld inspector ID.
18 0 I see, I see.
l 19 So they hadn't been inspected by a weld inspector?
20 A Yes -- either that or they were deficient, which they 21 had identified already on an inspection -- we would 22 reference the Inspection Correction Report number on the i
23 Form 7.
24 0 I see, I see.
() 25 The last set of documents are in a black binder.
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1 (Indica ting. )
2 Are these also configuration --
3 A Yes, they ate.
4 0 -- documents?
5 This is generally the same format that you 6 described for the other stack of documents; right?
7 A Yes, it is, basically, yeah.
8 0 Now, I noticed about halfway through this stack there's 9 a column that appears with the word " painted" at the top 10 with Y's and N's and O's in it.
11 Can you tell me what that refers to?
{} 12 A At the very beginning, when we inspected, we had to make 13 sure that if a hanger had been weld-inspected, that the 14 welds were painted.
15 That requirement did not last very long, but we had 16 to assure that the welds were painted on the hanger -
17 before we could accept them.
18 Q All right.
19 This is for configuration inspection?
20 A Yes.
21 0 Af ter n time, they told you not to pay attention to the 22 painted condition or not?
23 A Well, it became a -- the painters began painting every 24 weld we could find, and we had a problem getting the ;
() 25 paint off welds to inspect them.
I I
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l So that whole program had a major change in it.
i 2 Q Thereaf ter they told you not to worry about paint?
3 A Well, yeah, because they did not paint them until like 4 -- in areas. They'd get a whole area inspected, and 1
5 then they would go through and paint everything.
6 0 So the conditions that. you observed here -- the Y's, I l 7 take, it mean yes, that they were painted?
4 8 A Yes, sir.
l 9 Q N's mean "no"; true?
) 10 A Yes, sir.
- 11 Q What does the zero or the O mean?
i
(} 12 (Indicating.)
13 I'm showing the witness.
- 14 A "No," N-0. ,
) 15 MR. GUILD: Oh, it says "no," okay, great.
j 16 Thanks, Mr. Martin.
I' 17 That's all I have, if counsel has some other --
i 18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes.
19 Did you want to voir dire in order to inform 20 yourselves before --
21 MR. GALLO: I think Mr. Guild has amply j 22 covered the area.
23 I'll save any other questions I might have until my l
l 24 own cross examination.
() 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine.
)
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8376 1 Mr. Guild, continue now.
, 2 MR. GUILD: Thank you.
f
.I 3 -
DIRECT EXAMINATION
)
j 4 (Continued) 5 BY MR. GUILD:
! 6 Q Mr. Martin, I have a couple matters f ollowing up f rom i
} 7 yesterday.
8 I asked you -- I put the number to you, when we 9 were talking about weld inspections, of 100; and I said, 10 "Did you do 100 commonly per day?" You said you did.
11 Did you ever do more than 100 in a single day?
{} 12 A Oh, yes.
13 0 And did you ever do as many as 500 welds in a single j 14 day?
I j 15 A Yes.
16 Q All right.
{ 17 And those are not just welds that you documented on j
18 one of the checklists, but these are actual welds that
- 19 you physically inspected during the course of one day; i 20 correct?
21 A I don't know of ever inspecting 500 welds in one day; 22 probably 300, 350, somewhere in there.
- 23 It all depended on the accessibility of the hangers 24 and such.
() 25 0 All right.
1 i
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i 8377 1 Well, the reason I asked you about 500 is because I 2 recall having asked you a question in your deposition, 3 and you stated yes, that you had done as many as 500 in 4 one day.
5 Might you have done 500 in one day?
6 A No.
7 I -- I stated that that one checklist where there
! 8 was 500 welds -- I believed it to be the hanger up on 9 463 that had -- it was just one hanger.
10 Q On Page 159 of your deposition, the question on Line 5, 11 you were speaking of Mr. DeWald at the time.
4
{} 12 13 "O Do you know of any other inspectors that have inspected that many welds in a day?
14 "A No, but let me say that the practice then 15 was, since we recorded inspections in our 3 16 notebook, at times we would hold over our 17 inspections. -
18 "If I was to inspect maybe 50 19 hangers in an area, it was the practice 20 to caybe inspect 10 hangers a day and 21 record the 10 hangers in ycur notebook 22 and then at the end of the week turn them I
23 all in the same day, 50 hangers.
i 24 "O But you said that you actually inspected I
() 25 500 in one day?
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()
1 "A Yes, I have inspected 500."
2 Were you referring to actually looking at 500 in 3 one day?
4 A I don't think I inspected 500 in one day.
l 5 0 As many as 300 you recall having done in one day?
) 6 A Yeah.
7 0 Your notebooks would help you to --
8 A Yes.
9 0 -- perhaps refresh your recollection?
10 A Yes.
11 Q You made a reference yesterday, in response to a 12 question -- I think it was probably on the same point --
[}
l 13 how many had you done in one day.
i 14 You recalled the figure of 551 on a checklist and 15 said initially you remembered seeing that in a newspaper 16 article, i 17 Do you remember that answer?
18 A Yes.
19 0 Okay.
20 Focusing on the point about the newspaper article, 21 how did that newspaper article come to your attention, 22 Mr. Martin?
23 MR. GALLO: Objection.
24 I think I'd like to excuse the witness while we
() 25 discuss this point.
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8379 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
2 Mr. Martin, this has not been our general practice 3 here. I believe you may be the first person who has 4 been excused more than once.
5 THE WITNESS: I understand, sir. I 6 understand that.
7 (Witness excused.)
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Before you even start, my 9 understanding is that it is -- that the questions are 10 directed towards the understanding of the QC Inspectors 11 with regard to what is acceptable or not acceptable or
{} 12 13 what is the practice.
Now , maybe there's more to it, but let's hear your 14 objection, Mr. Gallo.
15 MR. GALLO: Well, I would ask counsel if this 16 is a preface to getting into the issue involving Mr.
17 Martin and Mr. Krone.
18 If it is, I believe that whole line of questioning 19 is irrelevant and will address it.
20 If I'm mistaken in that regard, then I withdraw the 21 objection.
22 MR. GUILD: .No. That is indeed what I 23 intended to examine the witness about.
24 I think, for the record, during the course of the
() 25 proceedings, there was some treatment in the press of t
I l
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1 Mr. DeWald's testimony; and Mr. Martin, we understand, 2 was subject to what I'll call colloquially " harassment" l 3 as a result of information that appeared in the
, 4 newspaper with respect to what was attributed to him.
5 This is a contemporaneous act. The newspaper --
i 6 the content - of the newspaper article is not of interest 7 except as a foundation for Mr. Martin responding to j 8 questions about what happened to him, including contact f j 9 with Krone, I believe the gentleman's name is, as a 10 result of this infora.ation circulating at the site.
J 11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Why wouldn' t that be part of 12 what we -- l 13 MR. GALLO: Your Honor, my understanding of i 14 the facts is that Mr. Krone, who is a foreman among the 15 craf t workers at Braidwood, Xeroxed copies of this 16 particular newspaper article that Mr. Guild is referring ,
! 17 to and circulated them among workers at the site and 18 that Mr. Martin asked that that practice be stopped. It l 19 led ultimately to a confrontation between the two.
i l 20 I don't believe that the -- and the occurrence was 21 within the last f ew months.
i i
22 I don't believe that that subject is within the 23 four corners of the Intervenorn' contention, which deals l 24 with harassment of Qt Inspectors by QC management. ,
25 Here we have an incident between a craft foreman i
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1 and Mr. Martin, and I think the evidence would show that 2 it was really a personal conf rontation between the two. [
3 But in any event, there's no debate that the a
4 foreman is a member of the craf t organization, and it 5 just simply is not within the four corners of the j 6 contention. ,
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, if that's the case,
! 8 it's been our ur.derstanding on the Board that any incidents between craft and QC are not relevant to the 9
i c i 10 '
case.
11 MR. GUILD: We certainly don't found our case i t l (} 12 in substance on adverse interaction between craft and the QC Inspectors. Indeed, Counsel is correct in that t 13 L
l 14 regard.
15 This is not an act of harassment that is an event 16 that is going to be a foundation for making our case on 17 l work quality impacts, but the real point is -- and it is 18 collateral to a certain extent, but it raises two 19 matters.
l 20 First, it raises a question of: What are the I
21 influences on witnesses who testify in this proceeding? L 22 We've heard several referencec, of course, to the 23 fact that this is a public proceeding and gets treated 24 in the press on occasion and those press treatments are
( 25 circulated on the site. ,
f 4
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1 Mr. Martin is influenced to the extent that what is 2 recounted in the press comes back to him one way or the 3 other on the job.
4 In this case, I would submit he's subjected to 5 ridicule and derision and harassment indeed f rom a craf t 6 foreman because of references to his weld inspection 7 practices in the press from the record in this case.
8 Secondly, of course, what the atmosphere is on the 9 job with respect to QC Inspectors and the freedom with 10 which they are able to perform their work is an issue.
Il That atmosphere, the freedom and independence from
(} 12 13 cost and schedele pressure, which is at the heart of the contention, is influenced not just by Quality Control 14 management and actions by Quality Control management, 15 direct acts of harassment by Mr. Saklak and others, but 16 influenced, of course, by what construction management 17 sets as the tone on the job and what the response, in 18 turn, is by Quality Control management.
19 This is not a mammoth point. I don't mean to hold 20 up this incident as one that is the be-all and end-all 21 of our case. I 22 But I do believe it's relevant both because it 23 influences the witness in his testimony -- and the Board !
I 24 should understand the influences on his testimony --
() 25 and, secondly, because it reflects what the environment
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)
1 is with respect to production pressure on Quality 2 Control Inspectors on the job.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
4 We try to keep collateral matters out. It's not 5 worth our time to listen to them. They're of marginal 6 relevance.
7 In this case, if you want to establish that the 8 witness is not freely giving his testimony, a few direct 9 questions would do that.
10 Without laying this elaborate foundation en l 11 newspaper articles, you can mention the f act that -- ask 12 him whether he has been harassed, whether that's
[}
13 affecting him right now as far as his testimony.
14 But that's as far as we're going to go. I don't 15 think we want to waste any time with hearing about these 16 collateral matters.
17 So one or two direct questions on that, and then 18 you' re going to be stuck with the answer again if you 19 wish to do it that way, unless the Board caucuses and 20 I'm overruled on that.
21 But I don't think that we' re going to go beyond 22 that.
23 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I can't really --
24 after listening to hours of Applicant examining on
() 25 matters that could only conceivably be described as Sonntag Repor. ting _ Service,_Ltd. ,
Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
8384 O
1 collateral, I cannot fathom why an act of harassment 2 that is of consequence of at least the understanding of 3 this witness' quality control. practices is not even 4 worthy of hearing. I did not --
i 5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Firct of all, from what I 6 understand, it wasn't harassiaent over a quality control ,.
i 7 function --
1 l
8 MR. GUILD: It indeed was, Mr. Chairman.'
i 9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- nor was it harassmfnt by 10 Quality Control management, nor do, I hear you sa) you 11 have any evidence that the harassment 'as w condoned by 12 Quality Control management.
13 MR. GUILD.: .I intend on that last point 14 exactly to ask that question: What waE the response by I, 15 his management?
16 Because Mr. Gallo stands up and says that it's his 17 understanding these are ,the tacts does not establish 18 that these are the'2 acts.'~ A 19 I don't believe this is a lengthy line of m
a 20 questions; but I don't believe by' comparative standards, j 21 Mr. Chairman, thi;t the Board can conclude, simply on
! 22 hearing counsel'9 argument, that this matter is not even 23 worthy of the witness entablishing it on the record.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: ,
Well, we have to determine 1
, 25 whether things are relevant and worth our ti:ge,, a6d I
! D i
S onntag . R epo r tin g _S e cyice ,_L td s ,___. ..'
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8385 1 haven't heard anything that suggests that you've 2 established anything that we ought to spend any more 3 time on.
4 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, let me just take a 5 moment now.
6 If Mr. Sliainblin was cut Llhere telling Ouality 7 Control Inspectors that ridiculing Quality Control 8 Inspectors f or the perf ormance of their inspection 9 functions -- would this Board take the position that 10 that was not relevant to the contention?
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No. We would take the
{} 12 position it is.
13 But Mr. Shamblin is a little different f rom a craf t 14 person cut in the field, and there's a direct chain 15 between Mr. Shamblin and -- as part of management of 16 Comctock and QC management.
17 We have no problem with that, with Mr. Shamblin or 18 Mr. Marino or Mr. Paserba.
19 Is that the right name?
20 MR. MILLER: Yes.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: But this is not a case like 22 that, and I don't think we want to waste any more time 23 on it.
24 Now, if you have a few direct questions for the
() 25 witness on it, without an elaborate foundation, as to I
l Sonntag- Reporting Servicar dtd:
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() .
I whether he is being influenced now by the -- in 2 testifying by whatever incident has occurred, you can 3 ask him that.
4 MR. GUILD: How about in his work, Mr.
5 Chairman, as a Quality Assurance employee of the 6x company?
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, a few direct questions
. 8 are fine like that.
9 But that's as far as we're going to go. You're not 10 going to be able to bring in all sorts of evidence on 11 this collateral matter.
(} 12 MR. GUILD: It was one simple question that 13 elicited the objection.
14 I had no intention of bringing in "all sorts of 15 evidence," Mr. Chairman. That is not _ my position. That 16 misstates my position to suggest so.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
18 MR. GUILD: I simply wanted to ask the 19 question directly, and I was objected to.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild, rather than 21 prolong this, why don't you bring your witness back in.
22 MR. GUILD: May I proceed, Mr. Chairman? May 23 I proceed?
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, please.
() 25 BY MR. GUILD:
l l
i S onnt atg_ReportinLS e ty_i_c e.,_L t d , -
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83 87 1 Q Mr. Martin, did you have occasion to hear about the 2 circulation at the site of a newspaper article that made 3 reference to your weld inspection practices?
4 A Yes.
5 0 And how did you hear of such a -- such information?
6 A One day I come into the field office when I was -- af ter 7 I was out in the field working, and I found newspaper 8 copies which had my name highlighted. A statement was 9 at the top that said, "Is this Opie," which is the 10 nickname people call me at work and what most people 11 know me by.
(} 12 I found that a foreman had been passing these 13 newspaper articles out and making very slanderous 14 statements about my inspection abilities, whatever.
15 0 All right.
16 Who was that foreman?
17 A Jerry Krone.
18 0 K-R- O-N- E?
19 A Yes.
20 0 What kind of foreman is Mr. Krone?
21 Do you know what work he does?
22 A He is a hard worker, but --
23 Q No. I mean to say what craf t or discipline.
24 A Cable pulling foreman.
() 25 Q Okay.
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1 Did you have any contact with Mr. Krone on the 2 subject?
3 A Yes, I did. That night --
4 MR. GALLO: Objection.
5 I thought we were going to get a couple of direct 6 questions, but I see his examination proceeding just 7 without regard to the Board's ruling.
8 MR. GUILD: It is not indeed, Mr. Chairman, 9 and I think I've gotten exactly to the heart of the 10 matter and intend to pass f rom the matter as quickly as 11 I possibly can without counsel's interference.
(} 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Proceed, Mr. Guild.
13 BY MR. GUILD:
14 0 What contact did you have with Mr. Krone on the matter?
15 A When he came in the office, I told him that he had no 16 business passing the newspaper articles out.
17 He said he did; that they were newspaper articles, 18 f reedom of the press.
19 I said, "Well, you don't understand the situation,"
20 and he said, "It doesn' t matter. " He cussed me out and 21 laughed at me and walked out of the office.
22 0 All right, sir.
23 Did you bring this matter to the attention of your 24 management?
() 25 A Yes. The management witnessed this.
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1 0 Who in management witnessed this?
2 A Bob Tuite, LKC management.
3 0 What position does Mr. Tuite hold?
4 A He is the -- at the time he was the night shif t 5 supervisor.
6 0 What action, if any, did Mr. Tuite take?
7 A None.
8 0 Did you ask him to take any action, him or any other 9 management?
10 A Yes.
11 Q What did you ask him to do?
{} 12 13 A I asked him to go up to see the construction supervisor, along with myself.
14 Q Did he agree to do that?
15 A No, he did not.
16 Q Did you take any other action?
17 A Yes. I went up there by myself.
18 0 What happened then?
19 A They said that they could not stop Mr. Krone, but they 20 would try to talk to him.
21 0 All right.
22 A And then I suggested very strongly that they do 23 something about it.
24 0 All right.
( 25 Is it your understanding that the article, in fact, Sonntag-Reporti-ng Service,_l.td-Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8390
(
1 referred to Mr. DeWald's weld inspection practices?
2 A His name was referenced in there, also, yes.
3 0 All right.
4 What, if any, influence did this experience have on 5 you, Mr. Martin?
6 MR. GALLO: Objection. The question should 7 be, "What, if any" --
8 MR. GUILD: Excuse me, Counsel. Please don't 9 suggest the answer to the witness.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes.
11 The objection is overruled. I think Mr. Guild is 12 on a relevant track now.
[]}
13 MR. GALLO: I'm not going to object on that 14 ground.
15 MR. GUILD: Please don't suggest the answer, 16 Counsel.
17 MR. GALLO: The question is "what influence."
18 It calls for a range of answers.
19 MR. GUILD: I'm not trying to lead the 20 witness on this point.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I think that's a direct l 22 question.
23 BY MR. GUILD:
24 0 What influence, if any, did that have on you, Mr.
l
() 25 Martin?
l t
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1 A I felt that I would no longer be able to inspect in the 2 field because of the pressure put upon me from my peers, 3 which definitely the craf t are -- is -- looks up to me 4 as an inspector.
5 Not only that, but they make sure that I'm on my 6 toes; and anything that they could use to make me look 7 bad, they sometimes do that to justify their own 8 mistakes that we so often find.
9 MR. GUILD: All right. That's all I have on 10 the subject, Mr. Chairman, unless the Board wants to 11 inquire f urther.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Would the influence on you
(" }
13 have been any different if QC management had done what 14 you asked them to do?
15 THE WITNESS: I believe -- yes.
16 I believe if the Quality Control management and 17 also the construction management took a firm hand to 18 show definitely that this foreman was very negligent the 19 first thing -- he spent his whole night -- this was on 20 night shift.
21 Af ter lunch, he made the copies on company time.
22 He passed them around on company time. If they would 23 have stopped him at that point, it would have caused a 24 lot less problems. l
() 25 But, secondly, when I made my complaint, they acted l
l
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1 like, you know, " Hey, tough luck, Charlie, you know.
2 It's in the paper. What do you want me to do about it?"
3 The main part of the slander was not the paper; it 4 was just a tool for him to begin saying very slanderous 5 things verbally about me, and that was -- it was getting 6 to be very traumatic.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: How long ago did this 8 happen?
9 THE WITNESS: Last April of this year.
10 MR. GUILD: It would have been May, wouldn't 11 it, Mr. Martin?
12 THE WITNESS: May. I'm sorry.
[}
13 MR. GUILD: After the hearings began and 14 probably after the first week in Kankakee, Mr. Chairman, 15 I submit.
16 THE WITNESS: Yes. I'm sorry.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Is that when you applied for 18 a transfer out of QC?
19 THE WITNESS: Well, the next day there was an 20 incident.
21 Do you want me to go into it?
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Is it related to this?
23 THE WITNESS: Yes, it is.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I think you ought to go into
() 25 it, yes.
S onnta g R eps r_t;ing_S_etty_i c e_,_L_t d_,
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8393 1 THE WITNESS: Okay.
2 I had planned to go in to see the Nuclear 3 Regulatory person there on-site to make a complaint to 4 try to prod my management and also construction 5 management to get this man to cease and desist of what 6 he was doing. I felt that that was the only means that 7 I would have to quickly achieve this.
8 Nobody was in the office. When I got in in the 9 afternoon, they were all gone already.
10 So I was -- I went into our field office. I was 11 getting ready to leave. I wasn't going to work that 12 night.
[}
13 But this foreman, Jerry Krone, came into the 14 office, and he -- he is part of our coffee fund. When 15 he come in there, he seen there wasn't any coffee and 16 then he just started cussing me.
17 He told me if I ever went to his supervisor again, 18 that he'd get even with me. He pointed his finger at 19 me. He pushed me right in our QC office.
20 At that point, to make a long story short, 21 whatever, after he had threatened me and pushed me and 22 cursed me very slanderously, he went out. He came back 23 in and brought one of his people that work under him and 24 says, "There's the stupid S.O.B. that inspected 500
() 25 welds in one day," and walked back out.
l Sonntag_ReportingService,_Ltd-Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262 l
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1 At this point in time, the LKC management did take 2 charge. They immediately got Mr. Krone. They 3 immediately got.the witnesses together. There were nine 4 witnesses, and they fired Mr. Krone that night.
5 That's when I got taken off nights, because the LKC 6 steward said that if they had fired Mr. Krone, that I 7 would also have to be fired or else the electricians 8 would walk off-site.
9 Well, they said, " Forget it"; they weren't going to 10 fire me.
11 It ended up that the craf t would no longer work Rg 12 with me, so they had to put me in the of fice on days.
13 So that's how I ended up there.
14 BY MR. GUILD:
15 Q Is that how you ended up with your technician position 16 that you have now?
17 A Yes.
18 Q That was when you were reassigned out of the quality 19 control functions?
20 A Yes.
21 Q All right.
22 Mr. Martin, I'm going to return to -- yesterday we 23 were discussing, when we recessed, your certification 24 history, and we were going through a series of
() 25 documents. I was examining you f rom those documents.
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1 Let me provide you with another set of documents on 2 the same subject, please. Let me ask you to examine 3 them.
4 (Indicating.)
5 MR. GUILD: Mr. Martin, if you'd like a 6 recess at any time for a moment to get a cup of coffee, 7 some water, rest a little bit, please just ask, okay?
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And you don' t have to 9 explain your reasons.
10 MR. GALLO: I'd suggest five minutes.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
12 Why don' t we take five minutes -- well, let's make
{~}
13 it 10 minutes.
14 ( WIIER EUPON , a recess was had, after which 15 the proceedings were resumed as follows:)
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We're back on the record.
17 I have another question with regard to that Krone 18 matter.
19 Before Mr. Krone was fired, had you informed the QC 20 management that you had visited the NRC office?
21 THE WITNESS: Yes, I believe I did.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Did you indicate that you 23 might visit the NRC again?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.
() 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild.
snnntag neporti ng_ Service,_Ltd-Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 MR. GUILD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
2 Mr. Martin, before the recess, I put before you a 3 document that is of several pages in length. The first 4 page is a Read and Reply Memo dated November 17, '83.
5 It appears to be signed by Mr. Seese to Mr. DeWald.
6 I'd ask, Mr. Chairman, that this document be marked 7 Intervenors' Exhibit 62 for identification.
8 (The document was thereupon marked 9 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 62 for 10 identification as of July 18, 1986.)
11 BY MR. GUILD:
12 Q Have you had an opportunity to examine this package of
[}
, 13 documents, Mr. Martin?
14 A Yes, I have.
15 0 All right.
16 Do you recall having seen these documents before, 17 any of these documents before?
18 A I believe I have seen the first three pages --
19 0 Okay.
20 A -- which was written by Mr. Seese.
21 Q Okay.
22 A The following pagee written by Joe Hii I have not seen.
23 0 All right.
24 Taken together, the documents appear to reflect
() 25 that Mr. Hii and Mr. Seese together performed an Sorin _t_ag Reporti_ng_S_ery_ ice _, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
83 97 1 evaluation of some of your field inspection work at the 2 time.
3 Seese says, in turn, he interviewed you and then 4 transmitted the results of such evaluation and 5 interviews to Mr. DeWald by way of a Read and Reply 6 Memo.
7 Did that -- did such events take place, as you 8 recall?
9 A Yes.
10 0 Can you describe the circumstances that led to Seese and 11 Hii doing the evaluation of your fieldwork?
12 A Yes.
{~)
13 They had a meeting, I guess. One day they just 14 grabbed me up and said, "Okay. We're going to do a 15 couple inspections. " I was told it was going to be a 16 basic evaluation.
17 I was given I guess a couple hangers to look at.
18 From the last page here, I guess there was -- there were 19 a few hangers. I only remember -- I only remember two 20 of them.
21 0 The last page you're looking at, the page with Joe Hii's 22 signature on it?
23 A Yes, the very last page.
24 0 He lists several components there.
() 25 Is that the hanger you're referring to?
S on nta c-R epo r-ti-ngJ e rv i ce r-Ltd .
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1 A Yes, it is.
2 0 Okay.
3 A So we -- we just -- he just told me that I was to do my 4 inspection like I usually do, and he was going to 5 evaluate it.
6 0 Did both Seese and Hii go to the field with you?
7 A No; just Joe Hii. ;
8 0 Was Joe Hii your supervisor at the time?
9 A No.
- 10 0 What relation, if any, did you have with Mr. Hii at the 11 time?
12 A None.
{~) '
13 0 This was a weld inspection, I take it.
14 Was it configuration or weld or both?
15 A Welding.
16 Q Did Mr. Hii perf orm any duties in the weld inspection 17 area at the time?
18 A I think he was certified maybe a month in welding.
19 0 Was Mr. Hii essentially a peer of yours at the time?
20 A Yeah, I guess you could say that.
21 Q Both of you were certified Level II Weld Inspectors at 22 the time?
23 A Yes. l l
i 24 Q Okay. '
() 25 And you had been a Level II Weld Inspector, in l
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1 fact, for longer than Mr. Hii had?
2 A Yes.
3 0 In any event, you understood that Mr. Hii, at Mr.
4 Seese's direction, was going to observe you in the 5 field; is that true?
6 A Yes.
7 0 Look at the last three pages of this attached -- of this 8 document.
9 I take it you hadn' t seen those three pages bef ore 10 today?
11 A No, I have not.
{} 12 O Okay.
Now, what I'd like for you to do, if you haven't 13 14 already, is take a moment and review them, and I want to 15 ask you essentially whether or not this three-page memo 16 by Mr. Hii tracks what you recall transpiring in the 17 field.
18 I know it's been some time, but --
19 A I've reviewed it, and I'm familiar with it.
20 0 Okay.
21 Now, looking at the first part, there's essentially 22 some questions and answers. I take it Mr. Hii simply 23 made these observations.
24 Did he ask you any questions as are reflected in
() 25 the first page of the attachment, Page 1 of 2?
Sonntag Reporting Service,_Ltd-Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8400 0
1 A No, he did not.
2 0 Okay.
3 Do you recall what procedures he's referring to by 4 number, Procedures 4.8.3 and 4.3.3?
5 A 4.8.3 is the weld inspection procedure.
6 4.3.3 is the weld work instruction for the craft.
7 0 The work instruction --
8 A Yes.
9 0 -- used by craf t for weld installations?
10 A Yes, it is.
11 Q I see, all right.
{} 12 13 Did you inspect to 4.3.3, the installation procedure?
14 A No.
15 0 Were you supposed to have it in your possession?
16 He says you didn' t.
17 A I guess he felt I should have.
18 I didn't have a copy of either procedure. I had to 19 find one f rom somebody.
20 Q Find one --
21 A I had to borrow one.
22 Q Find one of 4.8.3?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Did you usually go to the field with a procedure in t
() 25 hand?
Sonntaq Repolting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
I 1
8401 lD tj 1 A Up to the time where I got in trouble with the precopied 2 checklist -- at that time the management made a copy of 3 the weld inspection procedure and gave them to all the 4 inspectors.
5 Q Okay, 6 Up until that time, did the inspectors take such a 7 procedure to the field?
8 A Yes, they did.
9 Q Before the time they distributed them.
10 A Oh, before?
11 No.
(,w) 12 Q Did you before the time they gave you a copy of one?
13 A I never had a copy.
14 0 Until they gave it to you?
15 A No. They never gave me copies, since I was decertified.
16
- 17 Q I see.
18 So they gave them to the other inspectors at that 19 time?
1 20 A Yes.
21 Q All right, sir.
22 I'm reading from the document now. "Does he have a 23 Form 19?" You did. "EI Drawing? " You did. "Necessary 1 24 tools?" It goes on down.
l 25 "Did he check both prints out?" "No. Did not Sonntag Reporting service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262 ,
8402 k
1 check out EI."
2 What is an EI and were you supposed to --
3 A The EI Drawing simply lists the conduit for that hanger, 4 and on a weld inspection it is not applicable to the 5 inspection.
6 Q What's an EI? What does EI stand for?
7 A Electrical installation.
8 0 I see.
9 "Did he measure all field welds," and it says, "No.
10 One-eighth inch welds not measured."
i 11 Do you know what Mr. Hii is referring to in that O 12 note?
13 A Yes, I do.
14 Q Could you explain that, please?
15 A They are the welds that go to the Unistrut, and since 16 the plate is a quarter-inch, if the weld goes up flush 17 to the plate, you know it's at least a quarter-inch.
18 ,Q Without measuring it?
19 A Yes. ,
20 0 So you can just -- visually you can eyeball it, in 21 essence, because the plate thickness is equal to the 22 weld width requirement?
23 A Yes.
,, 24 Q Weld size, is that what they refer to it as?
U 25 A Weld throat.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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8403 g
G 1 0 "Did he check the detail print against installed 2 condition?" "No."
3 Was that called for and did you do that?
4 A I cannot -- I cannot recall all the circumstances 5 surrounding this.
6 0 Okay.
7 A I cannot believe that I did not check the weld detail.
8 That's -- that's the first thing I do.
9 That's probably why I didn't check it off, because 10 I checked it in the office. I checked the weld detail.
11 Q Before you went to the field --
O)
( 12 A Yes.
13 0 -- as you recall?
14 That would be your practice; is that what you're 15 saying?
16 A Usually.
17 Q Look at the cottom under " Comments." See if you can 18 recall this aspect of Mr. Hii's evaluation.
l 19 " Rick located the hanger's general location on the 20 print in the field office. He then proceeded to the 21 area. Once at the designated location, Rick proceeded 22 to inspect the wrong hanger," and then explains that it 23 was three feet lower in elevation, the one that you 24 inspected, than the one presumably he's saying on the 25 drawing.
Suuu Lat; Reportimervicer-ttT3.---- -
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8404 1 Do you recall that occurring?
2 A Yeah, I do.
3 When we went into the area, I located the hanger, 4 and I located it properly.
5 As far as when I had my drawing and the 6 installation report -- I mean, it's a very simple matter 7 of locating a banger.
8 Then when I turned around, I put my stuff down. We 9 were on scaffolding. It was kind of tight. We talked 10 for a few minutes.
11 Then when I went back to inspect, I looked at the
() 12 hanger that was directly below it.
13 0 Okay.
14 And is that the one that you inspected initially, 15 the one that was directly below it?
16 A Yes, yes.
17 0 All right.
18 Did you document the inspection on the wrong 19 hanger, then?
20 Did you write up the wrong hanger?
21 A Yes.
22 Q Did Mr. !!ii bring that to your attention at the time?
23 A No, he did not.
24 When I sat back down, I was double-checking, and O 25 then I saw that I had -- I noticed that he was Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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(
l 1 inspecting the wrong hanger, and I notified him that he 2 was looking at the wrong hanger. Then he told me, 3 "Well, this is the one you were looking at." So I said, 4 "Well, that's a definite mistake," so --
5 0 Okay.
6 Looking now at the second page down towards the 1
7 bottom, it sort of appears to refer to at the point in 8 time where you recognized that you had made the error 9 and inspected the wrong hanger, quote, "We then returned 10 to the field office to return our prints. He then 11 checked out and in the EI Drawing. At this point Rick
() 12 felt that he should have filled out a new checklist for 13 WV500 while he inspected. He checked out both drawings 14 again, and we returned to the area. He reinspected 15 WV500, filled out the checklist while at the hanger and 16 accepted the welds."
17 Does that accurately reflect what you did?
18 A Yeah.
19 I think the statement there is a little misleading.
20 The EI Drawing had nothing to do with it. It's a whole 21 separate thing here.
22 They were -- okay. I had just gotten in trouble 23 for not filling my checklist out at the time -- where 24 the hanger was at the time. .
( 25 Let me stop you there.
Q 1 l
l Somitag Ret;ot ting service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8406 1 You just got in trouble. You mean you and Mr. Hil 2 at the time?
3 A No; with -- with the precopied checkmarks and 4 everything.
5 Q I see. Okay, fine.
6 A The management come out with a ruling saying that if 7 anybody doesn't fill out a checklist at the inspection 8 point, they would be fired.
9 So instead of simply transferring the information, 10 which I probably could have done -- it wouldn't have 11 been a problem --
() 12 Q From one checklist to the correct checklist?
13 A Yes.
14 -- I decided that I had better just go out there 15 and redo the whole thing.
16 0 I see.
17 A It had no bearing on the EI Drawing.
18 I just felt that instead of transferring the .
19 documentation, I'd better go out there and do it out 4 20 there --
21 Q To look at the actual component?
22 A Yes.
23 -- while I was out there.
24 Q And you did that?
O 25 A Yes.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Q Okay.
2 Now, let's look at the last page -- the page that 3 bears Mr. Hii's signature.
4 It says, " Inspection for configuration cannot be 5 performed at this time due to the following," and he 6 lists matters.
7 Is that conclusion -- does that conclusion have any 8 p bearing on your inspection that you 'erformed?
9 A Yes, I think it should, because I'm the one that found 10 all these problems, 11 Q All right.
() 12 A They gave me these hangers to look at, and I noted all 13 the problems except for one here.
14 Under "No. 1, drafting errors," if you'll look at 15 the second paragraph here, there was a drafting error in , ,
16 one of our drawings, It listed -- it referenced a "
17 O-3366 draVing for a detail, and that is incorrect.
10 I didn't catch it, but -- I didn't catch it because 19 I'm -- I was well aware of where the detail drawings 20 were and I didn't need any reference. I was just used 21 to going to the detail drawings on my own initiative, 22 not relying on S & L notes.
23 Now, if I had to rely on their notes, I would have 24 been misled, so I skipped over t hat mistako and I vent k- '
25 directly to the detail drawings. I -- I think there was Sonntag Repbrting servicentar- -* -- ~
Geneva, Illinois 6G134 (312) 232-0262
8408 t
1 still a drafting problem with it.
2 Q The other errors are errors that you noted; is that your 3 testimony?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did Mr. Hii brief you on his findings at the time that 6 he evaluated this inspection?
7 A No, he did not.
8 0 It appears, then, that Mr. Hii submitted this memorandum 4
9 to Mr. Seese and that the second and third pages are Mr.
10 Seese's evaluation of what Mr. Hii reported.
11 A I believe he submitted this to Rick Saklak.
() 12 0 Oh, okay.
13 Mr. Hii submitted it to Saklak?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And what was Mr. Saklak's relationship to you at the 16 time?
1 17 A None.
18 Q Did Saklak -- was he a supervisor over you at the time?
19 A No, he was not.
20 0 Did Mr. Saklak have any responsibility for your area of 23 ,
work, as you understood it?
22 A Mo, he did not.
23 0 to you know why he submitted it to Saklak?
24 A Yeah.
( 25 Could you sr. ate that?
Q
~
SoTJiEag Reporting Servlce, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinoin 60134 (312) 232-0262
8409 O
1 A Because they were trying to get me fired.
j 2 Q That was your understanding and belief?
3 A Yes.
4 Q And what role, if any, did Saklak have in taking that 5 action, as you understand it?
6 A He took the findings and brought it before all the 7 supervisors and Irv and -- and stated his case very 8 boldly, I guess.
9 Q He, Saklak, did that?
10 A Yes.
11 Q How did you learn that?
() 12 A From Mr. Seese.
13 Q When did Seece tell you that?
14 A When he went over this with me on this front page.
15 Q Well, the second and third pages state -- are identified 16 as Rick Martin interview, and that's when Mr. Seese told 17 you the information about Saklak trying to get you 18 fired?
19 A Yes.
20 Q What, in substance, did Mr. Seese say to you in that 21 regard?
22 A He said that I have some very firm opposition; that a 23 couple people -- Joe Hii and another person -- suggested 24 that I be fired for not being able to locate a hanger O 25 out in the field.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Q Okay.
2 Did he mention Saklak in that context?
3 A I don't think he mentioned by name, but it was a very 4 evident suggestive statement. It left no doubt as to I
5 who -- who the other person was.
6 Q You understood, from the context, that Seese was 7 referring to Mr. Saklak?
8 A Yes.
9 It was -- it was just an ongoing thing. a 10 day-by-day thing.
11 Q Between you and Mr. Saklak at that point?
1 () 12 A Yes.
13 Q All right. I'll return to that subject later.
14 Did Mr. Seese show you the two-page statement 15 appearing to reflect your interview with him on November 16 the 17th, '83?
17 A I'm not sure he showed me the exact letter, but he did l
18 go over the content of what would be in here.
19 Q Okay.
20 A I'm pretty sure I saw it, but I can't, you know, say.
21 Q Okay.
22 It says you're supposed to train through December 23 1, '83. On tiie final page of Mr. Seese's notes, it says 24 that you will given another test to be used as a means O 25 of final evaluation.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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8411 (s
%.]
1 Did he inform you of that fact?
2 A Yes, yes, he did.
3 He was very -- he was really the only person that 4 was being fair about the situation.
5 How can I put tne word? He was not blaced.
6 Q All right.
7 A He wanted to give me a fair chance and he wanted -- he 8 wanted to -- and we did accomplish this, to have an 9 evaluation where the person evaluating me did not 10 realize that they were evaluating me.
11 Q All right.
O
(_j 12 A blind evaluation, in effect?
13 A Yes.
14 0 They didn't know it was Rick Martin's work they were 15 evaluating?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Now, in general, then, at this time Mr. Scese was 18 treating you in a fair manner --
19 A Yes.
20 0 -- as you understood it?
21 Did your relationship at some later point with Mr.
22 Seese change?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And did Mr. Seese at some later point treat you in a O 25 manner that you judged to be unfair?
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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= - - . _,
4 v
14
~
8412 l~[
~
l A Yes.
2 0 We'llreturntothatsubjectatalaterpoint.
3 But at this stage, at least in Novembt,<, of;1983, 4 Mr. Seese was, as you stste, one of -- the one and only 5 person who was being evenhanded towards you?
6 A Yes.
7 MR. GUILD: Mr. Qhairman, I'd ask that 8 Intervenors' Exhibit 62 be received in evidence.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Any objection?
10 MR. GALLO. I have no. objection.
11 But I would note that it appears that at least
() 12 three of the pages are incomplete.
13 The first page of the attachment, there's an 14 incomplete line there, and that's alcoltrue:cf the 15 second page.
16 On the -- on the Rick Martin -- or, rather, on the 17 Seese memo to DeWald, there appears to be something 18 missing on the first page. l 19 Now, I don't know whether it was the' Xeroxing fault of Mr. Guild or the Xeroxing fault of Appl 1' cant.
20 -
Do they have Bites stamps on",
~
21 MR. M.TLLER:
22 them?
23 MR. GALLO: My colleague points.out that the 24 copy being offered does not- have Bates stamps ora it, and 25 we would have put Bates stamps on them.
~
Sonntag ret >or tinDervice, led.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
l 8413 a
(
1 MR. GUILD: Well, you didn't, and this came 2 from discovery, and that may be the fault of your Bates l 3 stamper, but it came from a copy of Mr. Martin's i
4 personnel file that was made available in discovery, at 5 a very early stage in discovery, before,'apparently, the l 6 Bates stamping became the practice.
7 But I'll represent that it's in the form, the best.
8 I understand, that it came to me.
9 It appears only that the -- I don't know what Mr.
10 Gallo is referring to on the first page. That looks 11 complete to me.
() 12 MR. GALLO: I see a little mark right in the 13 middle of the bottom of the first page. It looks like 14 the top of a. letter.
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I don't have that on my 16 first page.
17 MR. G ALLO : No, no.
18 MR. GUILD: It looks like the guts of a Xerox 19 machine to me.
20 JUDGE GROSSMfM: Okay. The first page of Mr.
21 Seese's 11/17/83 nam (r 22 MR. GALLO: Yes. After'the word 23 " configurations," there's a little'--
d 24 MR. GUILD: It says "Page 1 of 2" at the O 25 bottom of mine.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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() #
1 MR.'GALLO: Well, it doesn't.
l 2 -(Indicating.)
3 That's what's missing.-
4 MR. GUILD: Mr. Gallo lost a line.
) 5 Let me see if I can get him a better copy.
i 6 Here is one that's as good as'mine,-anyway -- well, i
7 it's not as good as mine.
~y i 8 Let me give you mine,HMr. Gallo, t '
l 9 (Laughte r . )
{
l 10 (Indica ting . )
11 MR. GALLO: I see.
() 12 Apparentlywhat'smissingfromthebottomofthis/
13 page is "Page 1 of 2."
]
- 14 JUDGE GROSSMAN
- I don't have it on mine, t
4 15 either, but --
l t
- 16 MR. GALLO
- Let's see this page.
17 Yes, you'll see Mr. Guild's copy has that.
1 1 18 (Indicating.)
l 19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes. Mr. Guild is the ,
1 20 culprit in this case, but --
i .ti
- e
- 21 MR. G ALLO : It's theisame as here.
I 22 ,
(Indicating.)
i i 23 JUDGE GROSSMAN:- I guess Mr. Guild, then, 24 will have to give uh better copies ngxt week.
() 25 MR. GALLO: If we could have this copy, we'll 1
l s Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
- Geneva, Illinois -60134 (312) 232-0262
. _ _ _ - , . _:a , ..- . - . . _ _ . . _ _ . _ _ _ . _ _ - . . _ _ _ _ _ _ . _ . _ _ .
8415 o
b 1 undertake to Xerox it with the missing material.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Good. That sounds fine.
3 MR. MILLER: No objection.
4 MR. GUILD: Thank you.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: So we admit the document and 6 we'll have good copies in a while.
7 (The document was thereupon received into 8 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 62.)
9 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Before we leave this, Mr.
10 Guild, may I inquire?
11 MR. GUILD: Please do, Doctor.
() 12 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Mr. Martin, on the 13 attachment, Page 1 of 2, that begins " Rick Martin:" and 14 then lists a number of items, yes and no, about the 15 middle of that list is, quote, "Did he check prints out:
16 No (Did not check out EI)," and EI you've defined as --
17 unquote at that point.
18 You defined El as electrical installation.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: EI.
20 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Now, if you drop down to the 21 bottom of that page -- although at least the final line 22 in my copy is missing, but I will count up from that 23 about two or three lines until I find on the left margin 24 the word " evaluation," that's followed by a comma, and O'~ 25 then the remark is, "Not once did he consult the EI 50mTLoy Reporting Servicer ttd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8416 t'
V) 1 Drawing while in the area, although it was in his 2 possession," followed, I presume, by a period.
3 Is there a conflict there?
4 What does " check out El" mean in the list here?
5 THE WITNESS: That's EI.
6 JUDGE CALLIHAN: I apologize.
- 7 What does " check out" mean?
8 THE WITNESS: I'm not sure what he means 9 there, because there's no need to check out the 10 electrical installation drawing because 90 percent'of 11 the time when the welding inspector went to inspect a
() 12 hanger, the conduit was not even yet installed, and it 13 is not the responsibility of a weld inspector to verify 14 conduit installation whatsoever.
15 JUDGE CALLIHAN: To,you what does, quote, 16 " Check out," unquote, mean?
17 THE WITNESS: I have no idea. You'll have to 18 ask him.
19 JUDGE CALLIHAN: To me it means that you take 20 it out of the file and sign something for it and 21 proceed.
22 THE WITNESS: Oh, I see what you're saying.
23 JUDGE CALLIHAN: That says that you didn't do 24 it; but yet towards the bottom of the page -- and I 25 really can't give you a line number -- about No. 2-1/2, Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
i
! 8417
(
l j 1 I guess, from the bottom -- it says, "It was in his a
l 2 possession."
3 Do you have any reconciliation of what, to me, is
- 4 an inconsistency, or am I wrong?
i 5 THE WITNESS: No. You've-made a very good
! 6 observation there. I guess I misunderstood this.
7 I believe -- I'm not sure -- we did have a checkout I 8 system, and I guess we were supposed to check out I
i 9 drawings.
i 10 Maybe I just grabbed a couple drawings and I didn't 11 check them out properly to the field.
() 12 JUDGE CALLIHAN: So you may have, but not
{ 13 made yourself accountable?
! 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, f 15 JUDGE CALLIHAN: I'm sorry.
, 16 Thank you.
! 17 THE WITNESS: That's a very good observation.
i 18 MR. GUILD: Fine.
i i
19 BY MR. GUILD:
1
! 20 0 Mr. Martin, let's proceed a little further in history.
4 j 21 I show you now a document that I'd ask be marked as 22 Intervenors' 63 for identification. It bears a date of
- 23 February 6, 1984. It is a memorandum from Larry Seese
}
! 24 to the personnel file of W. -- I can't pronounce the
.( '5 man's name -- M-C-G --
l l
OUIIIlcag ItcPULLilly cE'IV1tc, Utd.
i Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8418 1 A McGuigan.
2 Q -- M-C-G-U-I-G-A-N.
3 (Indica ting . )
4 (The document was thereupon marked 5 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 63 for 6 identification as of July 18, 1986.)
7 BY MR. GUILD:
8 Q Have you seen this document before?
9 A No, I have not.
10 Q Do you recognize the name McGuigan?
11 A Yes, I do.
() 12 Q Who is Mr. McGuigan -- or was Mr. McGuigan?
13 A He was an inspector employed by L. K. Comstock Company.
14 He worked mainly with the inspector reinspection program 15 and extensively reinspected my work.
16 Q okay.
17 Now, how do you understand that -- why do you 18 understand your work was the subject of the inspector 19 reinspection program, Mr. Martin?
20 A I was made aware that some problems were~ found; that I 21 was accused of falsifying documentation, which involved, 22 I guess, many examples, but the example brought up here, 23 CC-65A, I think at the time when I inspected this, a 24 drawing revision had recently changed, deleting two O 25 CC-65's, leaving one left on the hanger installation Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8419
(^),
w 1 drawing.
2 I had documentation for three CC-65A's at three 3 different locations.
4 Since there was only one on the drawing, he felt 5 that I was falsifying information. He wanted to report 6 me to the NRC.
7 Q Did this represent an inspection error on your part?
8 A Yes. The practices kind of gave itself to these type of 9 mistakes. They were marked out in the field as three 10 CC-65's, and at the time I had the drawing, they were 11 CC-65A.
() 12 Then they changed soon thereafter, deleting two --
13 or changing the hanger numbers to something else, and it 14 just -- when the inspector went back to reinspect it, it 15 just -- he didn't understand that that kind of thing 16 happens; and he thought that I was making up hangers.
17 Q All right.
18 Well, did you complete a document that indicated 19 that there were three hangers present at a particular 20 location -- or at particular locations, plural, where, 21 in fact, the field condition was that there was only one 22 hanger in that location?
23 A Yes.
1 24 Q So you erroneously documented the presence of hangers 25 that, in fact, you saw specified but were not, in fact, Suunta9 Reputting service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8420
/~T
'4,,)
1 in the field?
2 A I'm not really aware of which drawing was taking 3 precedence at this time.
4 I believe that I looked into this and I found that 5 I had inspected this to -- I'm not sure of the 6 circumstances.
7 0 Ali right, sir.
8 Can you recall -- is it true tha' you did not 9 falsify documents?
10 A Well, yes. It was -- it was found the problem was that 11 at one point in time, one drawing showed three CC-65's,
() 12 and then a later revision showed one.
13 Q All right.
14 A The revision that he was inspecting to showed one 15 hanger.
16 Q All right.
17 A The revision just previous to that showed three.
18 Q All right.
19 And I guess what I'm asking is:
20 You may have made an error in documenting that 21 there were hangers that were not present actually in the 22 field; is that true?
23 A The revision -- no. The hangers at the time were 24 present.
CE) 25 0 Oh, they were present?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8421 1 A Yes.
2 Q Then you made an error in the reference to the correct 3 revision of the design drawing; is that true?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And that error was not, in fact, a falsification of 6 documents; is that your testimony?
7 A No, nothing purposeful.
8 Q It was an accident, in other words?
9 A Yes.
10 Q All right, 11 A There was also another problem here that -- I don't know O 12 i f --
13 Q Can you direct my attention to what you're referring to?
14 A Well, never mind. I was thinking of something else.
15 Q Okay.
16 I take it from the memorandum that's been marked as 17 Exhibit 63 for identification, Mr. Seese concluded that 18 there was no evidence that you had done this 19 intentionally and that this was, in fact, an error, not 20 a falsification of documents?
21 A Yes.
22 O Did Mr. Seese talk to you about this matter?
23 A Yes, he did; and he even allowed me to go out into the 24 field to examine the problem more closely. I O~ 25 0 All right.
i sonntagd epotLing SenriterLtd .
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8422
()
m 1 Paragraph No. 4 on the first page, Seese states in 2 the middle of that paragraph, "I explained," apparently 3 to Mr. McGuigan --
4 A McGuigan.
5 Q Excuse me.
6 "I explained that in Order for the charge of 7 falsification to stand, there should be evidence that 8 the inspector knowingly and willfully misrepresented the 9 facts. In this case Rick had failed to completely 10 review the dtawings. He is guilty of an error in 11 judgment and nothing more."
() 12 Is that an accurate statement of your conduct in 13 this case, as you understand it?
14 A Yes.
15 MR. GUILD: All right.
16 Mr. Chairman, I ask that Intervenors' 63 be 17 received in evidence.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Any objection?
19 MR. GALLO: No objection.
20 MR. BERRY: No objection.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Admitted.
22 (The document was thereupon received into 23 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 63.)
24 BY MR. GUILD:
25 0 Were you disciplined or reprimanded for that error in Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8423 1 judgment, Mr. Martin?
2 A No, I was not; only given -- I was just given 3 instruction.
4 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, Counsel for the 5 company has been kind enough to reproduce a better copy 6 of Intervenors' 62. I make it available to the Board.
7 (Indica ting . )
8 I trust it's a better copy.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: You gave me two, Mr. Guild.
10 MR. GUILD: Yes. You had one that had the 11 numbers -- oh, you have three. :111 right.
() 12 MR. BERRY: The Staff would like a copy.
13 MR. GUILD: If I could ask the Reporter to 14 substitute this copy for what's been previously marked 15 as Intervenors' Exhibit 62.
16 (Indicating.)
17 THE WITNESS: All right. This is better.
18 BY MR. GUILD:
19 Q All right.
20 Mr. Martin, I have shown you a document that I ask 21 be marked as Intervenors' Exhibit 64 for identification.
22 It bears a date of February 13, 1984, signed by Mr.
23 DeWald to Mr. E. Netzel.
24 (Indica ting . )
O 25 (The document was thereupon marked
.5onntag neportiTig servicer ttd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8424 1 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 64 for 2 identification as of July 18, 1986.)
3 BY MR. GUILD:
4 Q This comes a little more than a week after the incident 5 involving the allegation of falsification that we spoke 6 of with regard to Exhibit 63.
7 And this reflects Mr. DeWald's determination to 8 reinstate your certifications as of that date, does it 9 not?
10 A Yes, it does.
11 Q Mr. DeWald appears to reflect that the overview showed
() 12 that your rejection rate was below 5 percent.
13 Is that right, is that your understanding?
14 A Yes.
15 Q It reflects that NCR 1614 was closed as a result of 16 those overviews.
17 Do you know what NCR 1614 is?
18 A (No response.)
19 Q Do you see the reference there in that paragraph?
20 A Yes, I do.
i 21 O Okay.
22 A I'm not sure what it is -- well, I believe it was the 23 NCR written against my checklist with precopied 24 checkmarks.
) 25 Q So your recollection is that an NCR was originated as a Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8425 t
O 1 result of that CECO audit finding --
2 A Yes.
3 0 -- regarding the precopied checklists?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Okay.
6 And as a result, there was some inspection of your 7 work, I take i t?
8 A Yes. There was a complete reinspection of it.
9 0 of all your weld inspection work at that time?
10 A of the precopied checklists, 11 Q I see.
() 12 Did they identify which checklists had been 13 precopied and then go back and reinspect only those?
14 A Well, sometimes -- in most of the precopied 15 documentation, they could find the original one that I 16 used, and there was one original checklist. So in 17 those, they inspected a percentage.
18 But in the others, where they could not find an 19 original checklist, they reinspected them 100 percent.
20 Q Okay.
21 But just for the photocopying? Just in the 22 instances --
23 A Yes.
24 0 -- where it was a photocopied checklist --
O 25 A Yes.
Sonntag ueporting service n td.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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>O
'G 1 Q -- correct?
2 Do you know what proportion of your weld inspection 3 work was represented by photocopied inspection 4 checklists at that time?
5 A Probably less than 5 percent.
6 Q All right.
7 A small percentage of your inspections, then, were 8 reinspected?
9 A Yes.
10 Q All right.
11 Mr. DeWald documents that you are further retrained
() 12 now and then recertified.
13 Finally, it states, "Although the reinstatement of 14 certifications will be for welding and configurations, l
15 he," referring to you, "is presently training in CEA's, 16 which is the area he will be inspecting."
17 Did Mr. DeWald convey this information to you at 18 that time --
19 A Yes, he did.
20 0 -- that you would be reinstated but you would not be 21 doing welding and configuration inspections?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Why did they reinstate your certification if they did 24 not intend to assign you to welding and configuration O 25 inspections, if you know?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8427 1 A I think there was a lot of animosity and pressure 2 between Comstock and CECO in this matter, and I believe t
3 that Comstock really forced CECO's hand in reinstating 4 me.
5 The only consolation was that I would not be doing 6 weld inspections, to appease CECO, more or less.
7 0 All right.
8 Now, do I understand correctly that your 9 certifications were pulled not by Comstock but, in 10 effect, by Commonwealth Edison Company as a result of q 11 the Commonwealth Edison audit regarding the precopied C) 12 check 11eee2 13 A I have no idea.
14 I've heard Ceco people say that Comstock did and 15 then I've heard Comstock say it was CECO, so it's kind 16 of a hot potato.
17 0 Okay, all right.
18 Well, you later understood it was CECO's position, 19 that they were resistant to reinstating your 20 certifications?
21 A That's what I understood, yes.
22 0 Okay.
l 23 And that Comstock for some reason wanted to have 24 your certifications reinstated 2 0 25 A They performed the reinspections, they were found sonnLag ueport-ing ServicerI,td.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8428 1 acceptable, so why should they have to go back and, you 2 know, do more work if the findings were acceptable?
3 Q Well, what I'm trying to understand is:
4 If it all amounted to simply a paperwork situation, 5 where you got your certs back but you were not to do any 6 inspections in those areas, welding and configuration, 7 what is your understanding of the purpose for 8 reinstating your certifications?
t 9 MR. GALLO: Objection; asked and answered.
j 10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I don't really think it's I 11 been answered.
i l
() 12 For whatever it's worth, I think he can answer it.
- 13 THE WITNESS
- Could you repeat that, please?
14 MR. GUILD: Sure.
15 BY MR. GUILD:
16 Q If you were not going to do work in the areas that you 17 were recertified in, welding and configurations, what is 18 your understanding of the purpose for recertifying you 19 in those areas?
20 Why did Comstock care?
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: If you know the answer.
22 A Yeah. I don't think I know why they did, you know.
j 23 MR. GUILD: Okay, all right.
24 BY MR. GUILD:
' ( 25 Q Does the return of your certifications, Mr. Martin, in Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8429 O
1 welding and configuration have any bearing on the 2 extensiveness of any reinspection or corrective action 3 that Comstock would be required to perform for your past 4 welding and configuration work; do you know?
5 A I don't think so; but I think at that time -- well, we 6 had the inspector reinspection program, so just about 7 all of it was going to be reinspected anyway under that 8 program.
9 Q The photocopied work, though; correct?
10 A It had all been reinspected.
11 Q The work that was subject to the photocopied
() 12 checklists, that work had been reinspected; right?
13 A Yes, sir.
14 0 But you had done other work, the 95 percent, where you 15 hadn't photocopied, and I guess the question is, if you i
16 know: ,
17 Is the return of your -- does the return of your 18 certifications in welding and configuration have any a
19 bearing on the need to reinspect other work of yours, 20 the 95 percent?
21 A I believe it would have a bearing on that, yeah.
22 I think a lot of it -- there was -- there was a lot 23 of things involved with this problem; and one person 24 that was working very close with this was Bruce Brown.
() 25 We were friends. Ile was sticking up for me and Sonntag 11eport-ing Servirerttdr Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8430 O
1 this and that. He's the one that got me reinstated.
2 See, they were going to recertify me, but when they 3 found that everything was acceptable, they made a point 4 to Ceco that -- that the certifications should not have 5 been removed to begin with.
6 0 I see.
7 A And so instead of recertifying me, I was reinstated, 2 8 so -- meaning that I really didn't lose my certs; I was 9 just kind of suspended and reinstated.
10 Q All right.
11 And it's possible that that had the effect of
() 12 validating other work that you had performed when you 13 had previously been doing weld and configuration 14 inspection?
i 15 A It - people could have gotten that impression. I --
16 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Did thic removal of your 17 certification and its subsequent reinstatement have any 18 effect on your salary?
19 THE WITNESS: No, it did not.
20 BY MR. GUILO:
21 Q Did you, in fact, receive any assignments to perform any 22 welding and configuration inspections after those l
23 certifications were reinstated in February of 1984?
24 A No.
O 25 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I'd ask that l
Sonntai~Tepor ting TEBTIce, IId.
~ -
3 Geneva, Illinois 60134
- (312) 232-0262
8431 r
b) 1 Intervenors' Exhibit 64 be r eceived in evidence.
2 MR. GALLO: No objection.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
4 (The document was thereupon received into 5 evidence as Intervenprs' Exhibit No. 64.)
6 MR. GUILD: On this line, Mr. Martin, we're .
4 7 bringing this up closer to the present-,
- 8 The last document I nave to show you is dated 9 February 4, 1985. It's a Seece Recd and Reply Memo.
l 10 (Indicating.)
11 I'd ask that it be marked as Intervenors' Exhibit
, () 12 65 for identification.
I 13 (The document was thereupon marked ,
34 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 65 for 15 identification as of July 18, 1986.)
16 BY MR. GUILD: l 17 Q Have you seen this document befoce, Mr. Martin? ;
18 A No, I haven't.
19 0 Have you had a chance to read it?
20 A Yes, I have.
21 Q Okay.
22 Now, is it your understanding that there was a :
[ 23 general requirement that Quality Control Inspector ,
24 certifications be upgraded to Rev C. of the QC Inspector 25 certification procedure?
I l
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1 A Yes. ;
2 Q All right.
j 3 Were you required to upgrade in your areas of 4 certification along with others pursuant to that i :
- 5 revision?
j 6 A Yes.
) 7 Q Okay.
8 And while you had your welding and configuration 9 certs reinstated, you were required, in welding and 10 configurations, to upgrade to Rev C., were you not? ;
11 A Yes. i O 12 .0 Oxey. !
13 And does this memo, Exhibit 66 -- 65 -- excuse ,
14 me -- for identification -- is this making reference, i :
1 15 Mr. Seese's reference, to the upgrade of your welding I 4
16 l and configuration certs to that Rev. C? ,
i 17 A Yes. ;
I j 18 Q Now, Mr. Seese is apparently stating here that he's i
19 I going to sign your certification package but only on the i 20 understanding that you nct be issued a weld inspector l
! 21 hammer to actually perform inspections. j 22 Did Seese inform you that he was approving your 23 upgrade on welding configurations with that reservation?
) 24 A Yes; but a little more tactfully than this memo.
)
O 25 0 He's a 1.'.ttle more blunt in the memo --
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1 A Yes.
2 0 -- than he was in saying this to you directly?
3 A Yes.
4 Q By that are you referring to the last sentence, "My ,.
> 5 evaluation of his work habits and his ability to follow l 6 directions is far below average"? Is that your 7 reference?
8 A Yes.
9 Q Did Mr. Seese communicate that evaluation of your 10 ability and work habits to you directly?
11 A Can I go into some detail for this?
() 12 Q I'd like you to answer and explain, sure, fully.
13 A Well, up to about the middle of October, '84, it seemed 14 like, you know, I couldn't do any wrong with Mr. Seese, 15 but all of a sudden, he got -- we just fell out of grace 16 with each other, and I guess he felt that I had it in 17 for him, and I pointed out some mistakes that he had 18 made in his rework program and tried to get them 19 rectified. I think he took it personal.
20 But after that, it seemed like he wasn't going to 21 give me any breaks, so to speak, but he quickly --
22 from -- from about October up to my yearly evaluation at 23 the end of the year, he had gotten together a bunch of 24 memos so he could give me a very bad review.
O 25 lie Just -- he just -- his point of view of me Sonntag-Reporting-Servire,-Ltd.
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. O 1 changed drastically.
2 Q All right.
3 What was your working relationship with Mr. Seese 4 at this point in time?
5 Let's take in October of 1984.
6 Did you work for Mr. Seese?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And in what capacity, Mr. Martin?
9 A Status clerk.
10 0 All right.
, 11 And what were your duties in that job?
() 12 A I was gathering information to load into the computers.
13 Q All right.
14 What sorts of information were you gathering?
15 A Inspection dates, installation dates, revisions; just 16 information to go through the drawings, seeing what was 17 inspected, what wasn't.
j 18 Q All right.
j 19 Did you have any contact with status reports that 20 were filed by field inspectors within the scope of your 21 work?
22 A I reviewed checklists, if that's what you're referring 23 to.
i 24 0 Yes. The checklists that were submitted by the Level II 25 Inspectors through their Leads --
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1 A Yes.
2 0 -- up to the Status Department?
3 A Yes.
- 4 0 You got those on a regular basis?
5 A Well, at that time we did not have a Status Department.
j 6 I merely went to the vault --
7 Q I see.
8 A -- and documents that had been vaulted I looked at. ,
9 0 Current documento that had just been filed?
10 A Yes, yes.
i 11 Q So you reviewed the checklists that were coming in from l () 12 the field; is that right?
13 A No. ,
14 Q Okay. ,
15 You reviewed what checklists, then?
16 A I'm sorry.
17 Just the checklists that were in the vault.
18 Q I see. :
19 A There was no daily review of these documents.
20 0 All right.
21 A If I statused a drawing, it would not get updated until :
22 I went through the drawing again.
l 23 Q All right, sir.
24 And in October of '84, had you been performing this
' O 25 work for Mr. Seese for a period of t.lme?
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8436 1 A Yes.
2 O And when did you begin doing that wcrk for Mr. Seene?
3 A At the time I lost my certification.
. 4 Q All t ight.
5 Can you tefresh my memory? When vas that? '
)
G A About in 183, October -- l l \
7 0 Dctober of '*d3?
9 A -* or Movember of '83, co.uewher e in th er e .
9 Q So after Octal >ec or D:ovember cf '63, when you lost your 10 certo af ter the CE e audit, was that when yca were 11 ; reassigned by F r. Sees.' and did the work of a sta tus
() 12 Clerk?
13 A Yesf yes, I
14 Q You were doing ,tbat for approx _ mately a y ear at the ,
15 pcint when you state thit Mr. seese's attitude towarda 16 you changed?
l 17 jA Yes, ,
10 0 He re you wor king (c r 14r. Sette in Fol;ruary of '85 when 19 he wrote the memo that's teen identified as cxFibit 657 20 A Yes. /
i 21 0 What was Mr. Setse's responsibility, if fou know, t. o 22 sign your cert. packagen, which is whet t2 vaya he was f
23 going to do in this memo?
24 A As the Assistant Manager, he reviewed many of the O 25 packaging of the Rev. C certificationa, ne he signed a f
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1 lot of them in place of Irv Dewald.
2 0 I see.
3 As a Level III Inspector?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Now, let's turn to another subject --
t 6 MR. GUILD: I would ask, Mr. Chairman, that 7 Intervenors' 65 be received in evidence.
8 MR. GALLO: No objection.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
1 10 (The document was thereupon received into 11 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 65.)
() 12 BY MR. GUILD:
. 13 Q Let's turn briefly to another subject.
- 14 You've mentioneo d.a name Mr. Saklak a couple of 15 times in response to questions on other subjects, Mr.
16 Martin.
17 I take it you knew Mr. Saklak?
18 A Yes.
19 Q All right.
20 Did you ever work for Mr. Sahlak?
21 A Very rarely, yeah, but I have worked for him.
22 0 In what circumstances did you actually work for Rick 23 Saklak?
24 A If a special project came up, if he was -- just needed O 25 something done here or there, it would -- he would use Sonntag neporting Service, Ltd.
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1 me as a go-for, so to speak.
2 0 Did you perform any inspection work for Mr. Saklak?
4 3 A No, I've never really performed any field inspection 4 work for him.
5 0 okay.
] 6 Did you get along with Mr. Saklak?
i 7 A No.
8 0 All right.
! 9 And can you explain what the nature of your 10 relationship was with Rick Saklak?
11 A Well --
() 12 0 Where to start?
13 A How much time have we got?
14 I mean, this could go on for a long time.
15 (Laughter.)
16 Mr. Mendez knows.
17 But he -- he was hired in the QC office to weed out i 18 certain people and have them fired, I guess. That's 19 what the story was.
20 0 In July of 1982, he became the QC Supervisor?
l 21 A Yeah, yeah.
22 And he tried to push himself around, and he was not
, 23 my supervisor, so when he tried to push himself on me, I l
{ 24 let him know, you know, that I have a supervisor and it i C) 25 was batically none of his business; if he had a problem, J
Sonntag Rep 5YETHg Rervice, LtU.
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l he could go see my supervisor.
2 From that point, it was a very bad relationship.
3 Q Now, at what point was that?
4 Was that early on after he came upstairs?
l 5 A Yes, yes.
- 6 0 In the summer of '82?
7 A Yes, somewhere around there.
8 0 Okay.
9 A And one day I come in from the field, and I guess I lost
. 10 my tape measure. It was my own personal tape measure.
i 11 I was talking with Bruce Brown. Rick Saklak walked up 4
() 12 and asked me if I had a tape measure, and I said no, I 13 lost it. I had just lost it that day. He turned 14 around. As he was turning around, he cursed me. Ile
- 15 called me a few names.
16 So I excused myself from Bruce Brown and I walked 17 over to him and said, "What's the matter? Have you got i
18 a problem?" He just blew up. He said, " Yeah, I've got 19 a problem. We issue you guys stuff, and you lose it, l 20 you know. Nothing but a bunch of idiots," and started i
21 really cursing me.
22 He told me to get my A hole out in the field. At 23 that point in time, I said, "Look. You're not going to 24 talk to me that way. I mean, I'm a human being."
O 25 At that point he fired me. He began to fill out a
i i
l Sonntag Reporting Service 7 Ltd.
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8440 1 separation paperwork on me. '
2 I said, "Look, if you think you're going to fire me i 3 like this, you're crazy."
4 When -- when the boss come in --
I 5 Q Who is the boss you're referring to?
6 A Tom Corcoran.
7 0 Yes.
8 A -- they had a little meeting, and I was -- it looked 1 .
9 like I was probably going to be getting fired.
10 So, anyway, that was basically the confrontation we 11 had.
() 12 From then on, anything that had to do with me was 13 very against me in any way, and anytime I hed to talk to f 14 him as a person, he would intimidate me. Anytime that l 15 my name was brought up, it was, you know ---it was very 16 negative.
17 Q He, Saklak, was negative?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Now, you talk about the specific incident involving the 20 lost tape measure. ,
21 Was this a piece of Comstock property?
22 A No, it was not. l 23 Q This was your personal property?
l 24 A Yes, it was. I O 25 Q Did you bring that point to Mr. Saklah's attention?
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i 2 1 A Yes, I believe I did.
2 0 That seemed to persuade him that he was off base on the 3 matter?
4 A It kind of made him look bad, so I guess that made him 5 just madder at me.
6 Q All right. !
7 Now, when in time did this happen?
8 This happened shortly after Mr. Saklak came .
T 9 upstairs in July of '82?
10 A Oh, about three months after he was up there.
j 11 Q But early on in his tenure --
() 12 A Yes.
13 0 -- and early on in your dealings with him?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Now, you said that he fired you.
j 16 Did he say words to that effect to you?
17 A Yes.
18 Q What did he say to you in substance?
! 19 I know it's been a while.
20 A He said, "You're gone." He said, "You're gone," and tre 21 got a termination paper and started filling it out.
22 Q Okay, i 23 Now, did this exchange take place in front of 1
24 others?
25 A Yes.
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l Q You mentioned Bruce Brown.
2 Who was Mr. Brown at the time?
i 3 A He was a welding inspector, welding configuration i
4 inspector.
5 0 Were there others present within earshot?
i 3
6 A Yes. There were quite a few.
1 1 7 Q Other QC Inspectors?
l 8 A Yes.
j 9 Q Was this in the office?
10 A Yes.
11 Q I take it Mr. Saklak's voice was audible to the others?
() 12 A Yes, it was.
13 Q Did he speak in a loud voice?
14 A Yes.
15 0 You said he used colorful language, j 16 I won't ask you to repeat what he said, but he 1 17 cursed you and used foul language; is that my 18 understanding?
19 A Yes.
20 Q He did that in a voice that was audible to the others j 21 present?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did he appear to be angry when he was speaking to you?
l 24 A Yes, very angry, very upset.
C:) 25 0 Was he gesticulating, waving his hands about oryshaking 1
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8443 1 his finger or doing anything of that sort?
2 A No, not so much that.
3 Q Just a loud voice?
4 A Yes.
5 0 All right.
6 Now, he says he's going to fire you -- or he says, 7 "You're fired, you're gone." He gets the paperwork, he 8 starts to fill it out, and you had the exchange with him 9 that you testified to.
10 Did he then go in to see the boss, Mr. Corcoran?
11 A Yes. When he got back from lunch, he went right in 12 there.
13 0 I see.
14 He had filled out the paper, as you saw him do?
15 A Yes.
16 Q He then went to lunch; is that what happened?
17 A This was during lunch -- it was right before lunch and 18 kind of during lunch that this was taking place.
19 Q Okay.
20 Saklak takes the termination form and goes in to 21 see the boss, Mr. Corcoran --
22 A Yes.
23 0 -- after lunch?
24 Did he take you with him?
25 A No.
Sonntag Reporting Servirer ttd.
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8444 1 Q All right.
2 So do you know what transpired between Saklak and 3 Corcoran?
4 A No.
5 0 All right.
6 I take it that you didn't get fired as a result; is 7 that right?
8 A That's right.
9 0 Okay.
10 So did you learn of what transpired between Saklak 11 and Corcoran?
() 12 A Yes. When they finally called me into the office, Mr.
13 Corcoran stated how Mr. Saklak felt; and he was 14 evaluating whether I should be fired or not.
15 Q He, Corcoran, was?
16 A Yes.
17 Q All right.
18 That's what he said to you?
19 A Yes; that he felt that he'd hear my side of the story 20 just for the sake of hearing it.
21 (Laughter.)
22 Q And did you respond to his invitation to tell him your 23 side of the story?
,_ 24 A Yes.
I 25 Q Did you relate in substance what you've just got done sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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! 1 telling us?
- t 2 A Yes.
3 Q Did you tell him it was your tape measure? ,
i 4 A Yes. ,
5 Q Did you have any understanding of what the cause was j 6 that Mr. Saklak was relying on in terminating you; not i
7 uhat prompted it but what --
8 A Yeah.
! 9 Q What was the basis he was going to rely on to terminate 10 you?
11 A The fact that I had -- he had told me to go out in the
() 12 field and I refused to go out in the field. !
13 0 I see. j 14 And had he told you to go out in the field?
35 A Yes, he did. He told me to go out there.
16 0 That's when he made the colorful reference to your 17 anatomy?
18 A Yes, out there.
! 19 Q That was after he accused you falsely of having lost 20 this tape measure --
21 A Yes.
22 0 -- or a company tape measure?
l 23 All right.
i 24 So that was -- what he relied on as the cause for
( 25 termination was insubordination and refusing to go to l
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l the field?
2 A Remiss is what they call it.
i t 3 Q Remiss. Okay, all right.
4 I take it you weren't remiss; you were trying to l 5 keep your job at the time?
t 6 A Well, in the meeting I figured that it was probably more 1
7 a personal-type thing than really anything, so I tried 8 to -- I figured I'd better just maybe appease him, you 9 know.
10 Q Appease Saklak? -
11 A Yes. I told him that I was sorry, and that maybe I
() 12 was -- I should have gotten out in the field like he 13 told me to. I told him I was sorry and it wouldn't i
- 14 happen again.
15 At that point in time he raised his finger -- well, 16 Mr. Corcoran was sitting there waiting to see what woul6 ;
4 i
17 happen, and Rick just put his finger down, and he said, ;
.I 18 " Smoke him."
i 19 (Laughter.) !
i 20 Q You understood that to mean fire you -- !
+
t 21 A Yeah. !
i 22 0 -
get rid of you? ;
j 23 A Yeah.
24 He also stated a few lies. He said that he didn't j
O 25 curse at me and he didn't raise my voice.
\
A Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Q Raise his voice?
2 A Yes.
3 Q He, in fact, had cursed you and raised his voice?
4 A Yes.
5 So --
6 Q I'm sorry.
7 A -- at that time I was dismissed, and I figured I'd 8 better do some fast work if I wanted to keep my job.
9 So I wrote up a description of what happened, my 10 side of the story, and I had a few witnesses sign it, 11 which were Bruce Brown and Brian Baranowski.
() 12 Some of the other people that heard it weren't 13 willing to aign it.
14 0 Who did you ask to sign who declined to sign?
15 A Tonja Rolan.
16 0 And what did she tell you when you asked her if she'd 17 sign?
18 A She said she didn't hear everything that went on.
19 0 Was she present during the entire incident?
20 A Yes. She was the closest one.
21 0 Was there any way that she could have avoided -- could 22 have not heard what went on between the two of you?
23 A I don't think so.
24 Q You think she was just reluctant to be a witness --
(
25 A Yes.
Sonntag Repot tiTIg7ervice, Ltd.
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8448 1 0 -- a formal witness?
2 Was there anyone else who was present that you 3 asked to sign?
4 A No, I don't remember anybody specifically.
5 Q So Tonja was the only one you specifically recall asking 6 to sign and who declined?
7 A Yeah, that's all I recall.
8 Q I'm going to show you what's previously been identified 9 as Martin Deposition Exhibit No. 2.
10 (Indicating.)
11 Is that the letter that you drafted up?
() 12 A Yes, it is.
13 Q All right.
14 And whose signatures appear at the bottom of that 15 page?
16 A Myself, R. L. Martin, Bruce Brown and Brian Baranowski.
17 Q Those are the two people that agreed to sign that they 18 were witnesses, were they not?
19 A Yes.
20 Q By signing this statement, did Mr. Brown and Mr.
21 Baranowski essentially confirm the substance of the 22 events that you've just recounted in your testimony?
23 A Yes, they -- yeah.
,_ 24 0 What did you do with that statement?
k.) 25 A I -- I gave it to the manager, Tom Corcoran.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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8449 l 1 Q Mr. Corcoran, all right.
2 And when did you do that?
3 A As soon as I wrote it up --
4 Q Okay.
5 A -- I went in and asked to see him.
6 Q Shortly after you had left the office?
7 You had the interview with Saklak and Corcoran.
8 A Yes.
9 Q You got in there, wrote it up, signed it and took it 10 back in there?
11 A Yes.
(_) 12 Q Did that work?
13 A I'm not sure that -- how well the memo itself worked; 14 but Brian Baranowski and Bruce Brown called Mr. Corcoran 15 and had a meeting, just them three together.
16 I guess what transpired was it came close to being 17 a shouting match.
18 Q Among those three?
19 A Yes.
20 0 How do you understand that?
21 A Brian Baranowski and Bruce Brown related to me what took 22 place basically. They wouldn't tell me everything.
23 0 I'm sorry. They wouldn't --
24 A They wouldn't tell me everything because I guess what
[
25 they did is kind of stepping out on a limb; but they did Sonntag Reporting service, Ltd.
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a 1 say that they were very upset with the way the whole 2 situation had been handled, and they --
3 Q The way Saklak had handled it?
4 A Yes.
5 Q All right.
6 A I think fearing their own jobs someday in the future, 7 that they were probably trying to tell Mr.'Corcoran
- 8 that -- the way Mr. Saklak operates, hoping.that he i"
9 would understand that he was making a big mistake by 10 firing me.
11 Q All right.
() 12 This is what you understood from Mr. Baranowski?
13 A Yes.
14 Q All right.
15 And what was Mr. Corcoran's response to them, as i 16 recounted to you by Mr. Baranowski?
17 A They really didn't say. They -- they didn't tell me.
18 Q But they recounted it had been a shouting match'with 19 Corcoran?
. 20 A Well, from their language, it sounded like they were 21 using pretty strong words and raised voices.
4
, 22 Q All right.
23 What did you subsequently learn from Mr. Corcoran, 24 if anything, about the matter?
25 A I don't remember.
?
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1 Q What action did he take, if any? What action did 2 Corcoran take, if any?
3 A I think I was written up.
4 I don't know if that's on file or not; but I 5 wouldn't -- if they did write me up, I don't think I 6 would have signed it.
7 I'm not sure.
8 Q All right.
9 Did they fire ~you? Did Mr. Corcoran fire you?
10 A .No, he did not.
11 Q Did you hear anything more back from Corcoran or Jaklak
() 12 on the subject?
13 A No.
14 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, we are about two 15 minutes till.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes. I think it's time to 17 adjourn.
18 We'll excuse the witness and tell him to return 19 when,'or don't we know yet?
20 MR. GUILD: We'll have to keep him posted.
21 We'll keep you posted, Mr. Martin.
22 THE WITNESS: Okay.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Let's stay on the record'for 24 a little while after we excuse Mr. Martin.
( 25 i
So you're free to go now, Mr. Martin.
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1 THE WITNESS: Okay. I have one thing to say.
2 Maybe I should have said this first off; but when I was
- 3 initially requested to bring forth documentation of 4 items, I interpreted that to be the items that directly I
5 involved the 25 inspectors going to the NRC over the 6 herassment thing.
7 I have some more records that I'm not sure that got 8 entered yet. I'd like to give those to you.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Do you have them with you
- 10 now?
11 THE WITNESS: Yes.
() 12 I'm not sure that you have them already, but I 13 would like-to give them right now so we can --
14 JUDGE'GROSSMAN: Okay. So we'll have to take 15 some time now.
16 Let's look at them off the record first and then 17 we'll see if we can shorten it and indicate what they J
18 are on the record to the extent you want them.
19 So we'll take a 5-minute recess now.
20 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which
{ 21 the hearing was resumed as follows:)
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We're back on the 23 record.
24 Mr. Gallo, did you want to identify any documents?
O 25 MR. GALLO: Yes, Judge Grossman.
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O 1 During the recess, Mr. Martin furnished counsel 2 with the following documents:
3 A single sheet Read and Reply Memo from Mr. Seese 4 to Mr. DeWald, dated April 8, 1985; 4
5 A four-page inspection report. The first page is 6 signed by Mr. Martin. It's dated March 11, 1985; 7 A single sheet signed by Mr. Martin, dated March 8 26, 1985; 9 A multi-page document, stapled together, entitled 10 " List of Inspection and Rework Installation Past 30 11 Days." The cutoff date is 10/29/84;
() 12 A two-page writing. The first line is entitled "As 13 Concerning Harassment of Rick Martin by L. Seese," and 14 it's signed by Mr. Martin October 30, 1984; i 15 A one-page document referring to Mr. Martin with
, 16 respect to area of certification, and it's signed by Mr.
17 Seese January 30, 1985, with a handwritten note under i
18 his signature.
j 19 The QC Manager's comments are not filled in on this 20 particular copy of the document.
l 21 Then there's a two-page document, handwritten, 22 addressed to Tony Simile and Larry Seese from Mr.
23 Martin, dated December 6, 1984.
1 24 Finally, there's a single page which appears to be C) 25 notes taken, and at the top it indicates -- it states, Sunulag RepucLing Servive, LLU.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
8454 m
b 1 rather, " Sample consists of hangers from 414 up in the 2 aux and all hangers in C-O-N-T No. 1." I guess that's 3 Containment No. 1. "The lower elevations are not in the 4 computer yet," period. I won't read the rest of it.
5 That ought to identify the single sheet.
6 That's an enumeration of all the documents.
7 I will undertake to have these Xeroxed along with 8 the others as I've indicated earlier.
9 MR. MILLER: I'd like the record to reflect 10 that today I distributed to Mr. Guild and Mr. Berry 18 11 pages of material that apparently deals with
() 12 Commonwealth Edison 1985 goals for the electrical 13 contractor, L. K. Comstock.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Thank you.
15 Mr. Martin, then you're excused.
16 THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We'll see you again when Mr.
18 Guild informs you that we want you back.
19 Thank you for testifying so far.
20 MR. GUILD: Thank you, Mr. Martin.
21 (Witness excused.)
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Now, I just wanted to ask 23 you, Mr. Guild:
24 Are you still attempting to show favored treatment Os 25 for Mr. Martin or just decent treatment to Mr. Martin by Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1
} 1 the company?
{ 2 (Laughter.)
, 3 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, it is a mixed bag.
4 I think that -- unless the Chair really wants to i 5 press, I think I'd like to let the chips fall where they I
6 may and make these points in my findings.
7 I do think that what you'll find from Mr. Martin is 8 that if you take at face value what management's l
9 position is, they should have terminated him ages and 10 ages ago, and comparatively it's very difficult to
! 11 justify the disparate treatment of Mr. Seeders or Mr.
O 12 ruckett.
13 That doesn't, of course, eliminate -- it doesn't 14- establish or concede that the incidents that have been 15 recited so far indeed_ reflect adversely on Mr. Martin, 16 as the company states it.
- 17 He is a victim, as well as someone, in my i
18 judgment -- based on the evidence I've seen so far, that l 19 reflects someone where at least if we take the company's ,
I 20 position, it's hard by comparison to justify the much t
l 21 more punitive measures taken against Mr. Seeders and Mr. !
22 Puckett.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, the point I'm trying 24 to make is if you're just going to show that Mr. Martin, O 25 at least in some respects, was treated decently, you suuntay Repor ting Service, Ltd.
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- 1 really don't need him for that as a comparison or a 2 contrast with Mr. Puckett and Mr. Seeders.
3 I mean, if you can show that they were treated 4 unfairly, that's all you need. If you're just going to i show that he was treated decently, you don't really need 5
I 6 the comparison.
, 7 Perhaps all the evidence isn't in and maybe I i 8 haven't fully evaluated it now, but it doesn't seem to 9 me as though you're establishing that he was given 10 anything but decent treatment at least in some respects.
11 MR. GUILD: I hope you reserve judgment on
() 12 that point, Mr. Chairman,. because there's a lot lef t to 13 be heard on this subject.
14 I don't know how you could say it was decent 15 treatment from Mr. Saklak that you've heard so far this 16 -
morning, and I believe you'll hear a lot more.
I 17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No, I'm not saying that; but 18 it's on the other side.
- 19 MR. GUILD
- Indeed it is.
1 20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Perhaps in some respects 21 even Mr. Martin wasn't treated decently as far as what 22 you're establishing now or attempting to establish.
4 23 But my impression was that you were -- at least to 4
24 begin with, that you were trying to use Mr. Martin as a i
25 complete contrast to Mr. Seeders and Mr. Puckett and i
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1 indicate that Mr. Martin was being treated favorably and
- 2 the others unfavorably.
3 If it's just going to amount to decent treatment on 4 his part, you don't need him as a counter.
) 5 MR. GUILD: No, it's not, Mr. Chairman.
6 It's a complicated matter, indeed, and things are 7 not black-and-white, and I don't think the Board would 8 appreciate me characterizing or mischaracterizing things 9 overly-cimplistically.
10 Indeed Mr. Martin's case is not one that lends 11 itself to black and white.
() 12 Indeed there is more than one reason' for offering 13 , Mr. Martin's testimony, particularly in the detail that 14 you've heard so far; but we've begun the subject of 15 harassment and incidents of harassment.
4 16 You've heard only one; and I ask the Board to i
i 17 reserve judgment on what it's heard so far and 18 anticipate what is yet to come on that score.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
20 Why don't we then recess until 9:00 o' clock next 21 Wednesday -- I'm sorry -- 2:00 o' clock next Wednesday, )
22 and we'll begin with testinony of Mr. Hunter.
23 (WHEREUPON, at the hour of 11:10 A. M., l l
24 the hearing of the above-entitled matter l 25 was continued to the 23rd day of July, at l Svantag Reporting service, Ltd.
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CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPCRTER
% t This is to certify that- the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the .
matter of:
NAME OF PROCEEDING: BRAIDWOOD STATION UNITS 1 6 2 C05D10NWEALTil EDISON COMPANY (EVIDENTIARY llEARING)
.r DOCKET NO.: 5 0 -4 5 6 /4 5 7 -OL PLACE: JOLIET, ILLINOIS DATE: FRIDAY, JULY 18, 1986 ,
were held as herein appears, and that this is the original I transcript; thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
4
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(TYPED) / l./M SnnnyT.Hopp ';c-Official Reporter 4
Reporter's Affiliation 0
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