ML20205F509
| ML20205F509 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Braidwood  |
| Issue date: | 07/29/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#386-431 OL, NUDOCS 8608190226 | |
| Download: ML20205F509 (220) | |
Text
OR G WA!_
% UN11EU STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO:
BRAIDWOOD STATION 50-456/457-OL UNITS 1 6 2 COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY (EVIDENTIARY HEARING) e LOCATION: JOLIET, ILLINOIS PAGES: 9086-9303 DATE: TUESDAY, JULY 29, 1986
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OfficialReporters 444 North Capitol Street A[dr 3'5an: a u f 86081+ mc - .60, PDR Washington, D.C. 20001 i < + (202)347-3700 NATIONWIDE COVERACE
9086 J
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
, 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4
___________________x -
5 In the Matter of: :
6 .: Docket No. 50-456
+
COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY : 50-457 7 :
1 (Braidwood Station, Units 1 :
8 and 2) t
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _X 9
10 Page: 9086 - 9303
- 11 College of St. Francis f 12 500 North Wilcox Joliet, Illinois 60431 13 l Tuesday, July 29, 1986 14 15 The hearing in the above-entitled matter convened 16 at 9:00 A. M.
1 17 BEFORE:
18 JUDGE HERBERT GROSSMAN, Chairman 19 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 20 Washington, D. C.
i 21 JUDGE RICHARD F. COLE, Member, Atomic Safety and Licensing Board i 22 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission
- Washington, D. C.
! 23
! JUDGE A. DIXON CALLIHAN, Member, l 24 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board i
U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission
'25 Washington, D. C.
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Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 i
(312) 232-0262
9087 1 APPEARANCES:
2 On behalf of the Applicant:
3 MICHAEL I. MILLER, ESQ.
JOSEPH GALLO, ESQ.
4 ELENA Z. KEZELIS, ESQ.
Isham, Lincoln & Beale 5 Three First National Plaza Chicago, Illinois 60602 6
7 On behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory Commission Staff:
8 GREGORY ALAN BERRY, ESQ.
9 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 7335 Old Georgetown Road 10 Bethesda, Maryland 20014 11 On behalf of the Intervenor:
12 ROBERT GUILD, ESQ.
(v-) 13 14 15 16 17 18 l 19 l
l 20 l
21 22 23 24 25 C)
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/D 4
U 1 EXHIBIT INDEX MARKED RECEIVED 2 Board Exhibit No. 3 9097 9130 Board Exhibit No. 4 9102 9130 3 Board Exhibit No. 5 9109 9130 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 72 9159 9162 4 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 73 9162 9165 5 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 74 9166 9173 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 75 9173 9177 6 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 76 9178 9186 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 77 9182 9188 7 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 78 9197 9199 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 79 9202 9202 8 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 80 9205 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 81 9206 9208 9 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 82 9208 9213 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 83 9252 9270 10 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 84 9264 11
() 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 t
20 21 22 l 23 24 25 CE)
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1 TESTIMONY OF RANDALL L. KURTZ 2 DIR2CT EXAMINATION ,
BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 9094 3
BOARD EXAMINATION 4 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN: 9110 j 5 BOARD EXAMINATION BY JUDGE COLE: 9115 ,
6 BOARD. EXAMINATION ,
4 7 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 9118 8 BOARD EXAMINATION BY JUDGE CALLIHAN: 9120 9
BOARD EXAMINATION 10 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 9121 .
i
, 11 CROSS EXAMINATION i
! BY MR. GUILD: 9122 +
12 2
4
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ts y CROSS EXAMINATION 2
13 BY MR. BERRY: 9125 14 BOARD EXAMINATION BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 9126 i 15 i BOARD EXAMINATION 16 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN: 9127 17 TESTIMONY OF RICHARD L. MARTIN 18 DIRECT EXAMINATION
., (Continued.)
19 BY MR. GUILD: 9146
- 20 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. GALLO
- 9276 21 22 1
, 23
! 24 I 25
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1 1
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9090 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The hearing is reconvened.
2 This is the 45th day of hearing.
3 We have asked for Mr. Kurtz, who had originally 4 been listed as a witness for Applicant, to come on the 5 stand for just a few minutes of testimony in response to 6 Board questions, and we will restrict the scope of his 7 testimony just to those Board questions or any 8 follow-ups by counsel.
9 However, that will not prejudice counsel from 10 raising those same matters if Mr. Kurtz is presented 11 again as a witness, since this whole thing is somewhat 12 of a surprise.
13 But before we get to Mr. Kurtz, I'd like to 14 entertain whatever preliminary matters we have.
15 I believe Mr. Gallo may have had something on 16 Friday when we adjourned the hearing.
17 MR. GALLO: Yes, your Honor.
18 I wanted to file a motion, and I think that on 19 reflection over the weekend, that rather than waste the 20 Board's time with oral argument, I will present in it 21 writing, the other parties can respond, and the Board 22 can deal with the issue in that fashion.
23 It has to do with the viability of an losue >
i 24 involving Mr. Ilunter.
()
25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay. That's fine.
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9091 1 We'll certainly entertain that.
2 Then we'll ask you why you spent so much time with 3 Mr. Hunter, in view of what I expect to be the contents 4 of your motion, but --
5 MR. GALLO: The answer is:
6 I asked those questions last.
7 (Laughter.)
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
9 Are there any preliminary -- I am not in contact 10 with counsel. I have no official knowledge or 11 unofficial knowledge of what's in the motion.
12 I'm just anticipating, and perhaps incorrectly.
13 But let's see if there are any further preliminary 14 matters from anyone.
15 Is there?
16 MR. GUILD: I just would note that we were 17 served yesterday, as the Board apparently was just a 18 minute ago, with a filing by Applicant with respect to 19 their anticipated rebuttal case, and I have not had time 20 to digest the document, but just from its heft --
21 perhapu the attachments is what I am referring to -- it 22 relates to PTL overinspections, and it's cubstantial in 23 bulk and perhaps complexity as well.
24 I just would note that Applicant and Intervenor and
() 25 Staff have under discussion the sharing of information
_SonAtallLeporting_ Service _i_Ltd.
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1 to prepare for rebuttal, and we've been continuing those 2 discussions.
3 I may need to bring something to the Board's 4 attention in light of this filing of yesterday, but I 5 won't take the time to do so without thoroughly having 6 studied it.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We'll entertain 8 arguments later on. Probably tomorrow, if you are 9 prepared; if not, later in the week.
10 I would want to hear from Staff on whether we have 11 heard anything fu:ther from the Commission or its 12 representatives with regard to subpoenaes that had been ,
13 requested.
14 I personally attempted to contact General Counsel, 15 the docket attorney who is handling that matter -- and I 16 don't think we have to name the person on the record.
17 Let this be the first time that someone doesn't 18 unnecessarily use names here that we have to expunge 19 from the record; but apparently that person is on 20 vacation, and I didn't have an opportunity to follow it i 21 further.
I 22 I just want to point out today is the deadline that i
23 we indicated we would set for ourselves as far as 24 responding to subpoena requests.
25 Itave you heard anything, Mr. Berry?
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9093 l O 1 1 MR. BERRY: No, no, I haven't, your Honor; i 1
2 but I understand Mr. Treby is in the Regional Office 3 today, and at the first recess, I'll endeavor to contact 4 him and see if he knows anything.
5 But so far as I know, the Staff hasn't taken any 6 additional action.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
8 Again, just to make it clear on the record, I said 9 a deadline, but, in fact, what we've done is afforded an 10 opportunity, within a certain time, for the Commission 11 to do something, which I don't see that the regulations 12 require any opportunity, but I just didn't want to do 13 anything propitious without the Commission having that 14 opportunity to take some action, if it desired.
15 MR. BERRY: I'll look into it at the first 16 recess, your Honor.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Thank you.
18 Anything further before we get to Mr. Kurtz?
19 (No response.)
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No.
21 If that's the case, Mr. Kurtz, would you please 22 stand and raise your right hand.
23 (The witness was thereupon duly sworn.)
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Please be seated.
() 25 RANDALL L. KURTZ Sonntaq_ Reporting Service,__Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
9094 O
1 called as a witness by the Board, having been first duly 2 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
3 DIRECT EXAMINATION 4 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
5 Q Could you state your full name, sir?
6 A My name is Randall L. Kurtz. I'm employed by Sargent &
7 Lundy, 55 East Monroe, Chicago, Illinois.
8 Q Okay.
9 Now, Mr. Kurtz, I understand you had prepared some 10 prefiled testimony in this proceeding; is that correct, 11 sir?
12 A Yes, it is.
13 0 Okay.
14 And just for the record, the Applicant has decided 15 not to present that prefiled testimony, but, 16 nevertheless, it does raise some questions in our minds 17 that we wanted clarified, even though we are certainly 18 not asking Applicant to offer the testimony. It's 19 certainly entitled to decline to present it.
20 In your proposed testimony -- I don't know if you 21 have it in front of you.
22 Do you, sir?
23 A Yes, I do.
24 (Indicating.)
() 25 Q You indicate, in response to Question 7, that the Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
GiFneva, IIITnois 6(TIT 4 (312) 232-0262
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l 9095 :
n N-1 American Welding Society issued AWS D1.3 Structural 2 Welding Code for Sheet Steel in 1978; is that correct, 3 sir?
4 A That's right.
5 Q And that this code has been incorporated by reference 6 into AWS Dl.1 since 1979; is that also correct, sir?
7 A Yes, it is.
- 8 Q Now, you refer, in answer to Question 9, to an inquiry 9 to AWS with regard to the applicability of current codes 10 to contract documents that specified an earlier edition 11 of the Code; isn't that so, sir?
12 A Yes.
13 0 Okay. +
14 Now, who made this inquiry to AWS that you refer 15 to?
16 A The source of the inquiry is -- was actually the 17 secretary of AWS.
18 This question comes up often enough where AWS
- 19 wanted to issue that interpretation on their own, so the 20 American Welding Society issued that interpretation on 21 their own initiative.
22 0 Okay.
23 When was this interpretation issued?
24 A It was published in the October,1984, edition of the 25 Welding Journal, which is the official publication of
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v 1 the American Welding Society.
2 The interpretation itself was issued on August 1st i 3 of 1984.
4 Q Okay.
5 Now, let me ask you 6 Did Sargent & Lundy or anyone else connected with 7 the Braidwood Station make any similar inquiry to the 8 AWS?
9 A Yes, sir. Chris Hayes, who's a QA Welding Engineer for 10 Commonwealth Edison, addressed a similar issue by his 11 letter of October 17, 1984, addressed to Dr. Davis, who 12 is the secretary of the American Welding Society, and, 13 in fact, is the gentleman who took the initiative to 14 issue that interpretation that's referred to in my 15 testimony.
16 But what Chris Hayes did in his letter is he 17 specifically asked the question --
18 MR. GALLO: Excuse me.
19 Would the Board like a copy of the letter to refer 20 to that the witness is talking about?
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We will during the course --
22 oh, if you have a copy now, that's fine.
23 MR. GALLO: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
24 A (Continuing.) Okay. I'd like to draw your attention
(} 25 to Inquiry 3, which states, "Due to a contract date in
< Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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(312) 232-0262
9097 O
1 1975, prior to publication of the Dl.3 Code, welding of 2 material less than one-eighth inch is accomplished-3 meeting the requirements of Dl.1 Code. Is it 4 permissible to perform this welding to the Dl.1 Code 5 even though later editions state that it is not intended 6 for materials less than an eighth of an inch," and in 7 their response --
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, before we get to the 9 response --
10 THE WITNESS: Okay.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- why don't we mark this as 12 Board Exhibit 3.
13 MR. MILLER: Yes, I believe it is 3.
14 I have 2 as the Chicago Tribune article.
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. So this is Board 16 Exhibit 3, and that is the Christopher Hayes' letter of 17 October 17, 1984, to Dr. Moss Davis of the American 18 Welding Society.
19 (The document was thereupon marked Board 20 Exhibit No. 3 for identification as of 21 July 29, 1986.)
22 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
23 0 Okay.
24 Now, I take it when someone raises an inquiry with 25 the AWS and states the basis for the inquiry, AWS
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Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
9098 ey a
1 doesn't inquire in* the factual basis for the request, 2 does it?
3 A No, sir.
4 They just evaluate the letter that's submitted to 5 them.
6 (Indicating.)
7 Q Okay. Just on the face of what's submitted.
8 And so whatever ruling they might issue with regard 9 to that presupposes that the assumptions in the inquiry 10 are correct?
11 A Yes.
12 0 Okay.
13 A But to avoid any misunderstandings or mis-hits in terms 14 of communication, the AWS response will restate the 15 question in the terms that they understand and not 16 necessarily answer the question that was posed to them 17 in that exact language, so to -- to aid the 18 communication process, they do restate the question.
19 In this particular case, all three questions were 20 rephrased and then they provide the answer.
21 (Indicating.)
22 0 Okay, okay.
23 Now, in your Answer 9 to the prefiled testimony, 24 you quoted, I guess, part of the inquiry to AWS, but I
() 25 see that language is not contained in Board Exhibit 3.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 So I assume that that language was contained in the 2 article that was authored by the AWS as their 3 restatement of the inquiry; is that so, sir?
4 A This -- this statement that's included in the prefiled 5 testimony is from the AWS-initiated interpretation that 6 was issued on August 1st and published in the Welding 7 Journal of October,1984.
8 (Indicating.)
9 Q Okay.
10 And I take it you have copies of that Welding 11 Journal with you, is that correct --
,)
12 A Yes, I do.
(/ 13 -- or that article?
Q 14 A Yes.
15 0 Okay.
16 Now --
17 MR. GALLO: Would the Board like us to make 18 copies of that?
19 We have not at this point.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, we would certainly 21 appreciate that, Mr. Gallo.
22 THE WITNESS: Okay.
23 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
24 Q Now, as part of that language that you quoted in the
() 25 answer to 9 -- well, let's read that inquiry.
Sonntag Reporting _ Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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'l "May the current code (eg, AWS DI.1) requirements be 2 applied to contract documents that specify an earlier 3 edition of the Code?
4 Okay. There are no ending quotes on that inquiry.
5 I don't know whether that was a full inquiry.
6 Was it?
7 A That is the full inquiry.
8 Q I see.
9 And the reply just followed after that?
10 A Exactly right.
11 Q Okay, 12 And that's why the quotations are at the end of the g-)w t
'~
13 reply; is that so?
14 A Yes, yes.
15 Q Now, was it your understanding, from reviewing the 16 documentation of Sargent & Lundy, that the contract 17 documents in issue here, which is basically 18 Specification L2790, specified an earlier edition of the 19 Code?
20 A Earlier than what, your Honor?
21 The contract documents specified AWS D1.1-1975.
22 0 That was the original specification; is that so?
23 A That's right, based on the original purchase order date.
24 0 okay.
() 25 Now, was there a section that actually mentioned Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. .
Geneva, I111661s 6'0I34 (312) 232-0262
9101 0
1 the date 1975?
2 A In Specification L2790, the -- the -- 1975 wasn't 3 specifically referred to.
4 There is general phraseology about the codes and 5 standards in effect at the date of purchase order being 6 the -- in effect for the life of the contract.
7 I would need the specification to give you the 8 exact language for that; but to get directly to the 9 point, AWS D1.1-1975 isn't specifically referred to in 10 L2790.
11 (Indicating.)
12 0 Well, then that doesn't seem to fit under the inquiry 13 here of specifying an earlier edition of the code, does 14 it?
15 A Well, there can be room for interpretation on that; and 16 I think that's why Commonwealth Edison submitted that 17 letter requesting for further clarification, and I 18 believe that AWS, in their response to Commonwealth 19 Edison, comes more specifically to the point in their 20 inquiry, which they rephrase the question to read, "AWS 21 D1.1-1975 has no limitations on the thickness of 22 material to be welded" --
23 0 Wait, wait, wait, wait.
24 A Okay.
25 0 I'm sorry.
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____Sonntag_ Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, IliIncis 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 What are you reading from now?
2 A Now I'm reading from the response letter issued by Moss 3 Davis of the American Welding Society to Chris Hayes of 4 Commonwealth Edison Company.
1 5 Q Oh, there was a response to that?
6 A Right.
7 0 Okay.
8 I'd rather you not read selective portions of that, 9 but I think we would like to see that, if you have 10 copies of that.
11 MR. GALLO: This, your Honor, I believe is f- 12 the response to what's been identified as Board Exhibit
(-)/
13 3.
14 (Indicating.)
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, let's mark that, for 16 identification, as Board Exhibit 4.
17 (The document was thereupon marked Board 18 Exhibit No. 4 for identification as of 19 July 29, 1986.)
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Now, before we get on to 21 that, though, maybe I think we'll take two or three 22 minutes just to read this.
J 23 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
24 0 Okay.
() 25 Now, let's refer to this.
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s>
1 Again, you were going to read -- or you started to 2 read from Reply No. 3?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay.
5 And that, also, states something with regard to the 6 Code specified in the contract, does it not?
7 A Yes, it does.
8 Q So if the Code is not actually specified in the 9 contract, whatever that means, then the response would 10 not apply; is that so?
11 A Well, yes, that -- that would be correct.
fS 12 The contract -- the procurement requirements would V
13 include the -- the purchase order and the conditions 14 imposed by Commonwealth Edison; and I think at a -- at a 15 later point in time, we'll be able to show the basis for 16 the establishment of AWS Dl.1-1975 as the base Code 17 edition.
i 18 Q Okay.
- 19 I understand what you are raising now is a legal 20 argument as to whether the words -- if the words don't
- 21 actually specify the Code edition, you can refer to 22 other provisions and suggest that those other 23 provisions, which are in the 1975 edition, therefore 24 crea.e a specification of the 1975 edition.
(} 25 Is that basically what your argument is?
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Okay.
3 But now let's take a look at what's been marked for 4 identification -- what's been admitted as Applicant's 5 Exhibit 16.
6 Do you have a copy of Applicant's Exhibit 16?
7 N3. G ALLO: Here's the spec.
8 (Indicating.)
9 THE WITNESS: All right.
10 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
11 Q You do have that in front of you?
12 A Yes.
13 Q Okay.
14 Let's refer now to Page 4-3, Section 401.19.2.
15 MR. BERRY: May'I have that reference again?
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes. Page 4-3, the bottom 17 line. It's Specification 401.19.2.
18 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
19 Q Now, that states, "AWS Dl.3 welding shall conform to the 20 requirements of AWS Dl.3."
21 Do you see that, Mr. Kurtz?
22 A Yes, I do.
23 0 Okay.
24 Now, if you look in the front part, you will see
() 25 that Amendment 30 was issued on 7/14/83; isn't that so, Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 sir?
2 A Yes.
3 Q And as you see from the section I have quoted, there is 4 a specific reference to the requirements of AWS Dl.3 --
5 A Yes.
6 0 -- isn't that so?
7 Doesn't that suggest to you that, in fact, there 8 was not only a recognition of Dl.3, but an incorporation 9 of Dl.3 into the contract specifications?
10 A Well, no, sir, I disagree.
11 The -- the reasoning behind that particular 12 phrasing is -- well, it is not clear by just reading the 13 specification itself, the -- the bulk of the articles 14 here.
15 The welding requirements are actually imposed by 16 Form 1701, which requires that the welding be as 17 referenced in 401.19.1.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
l 19 I don't want to put you on the spot with making 20 legal arguments, and perhaps these are legal positions, 21 but I just wanted to establish --
22 MR. GALLO: Your Honor --
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- in the record --
24 MR. GALLO: -- I don't believe they are legal
(} 25 arguments.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me, Mr. Gallo.
1 2 I just wanted to establish in the record what the 3 pertinent provisions are with regard to this matter, and 4 whatever legal argument I guess there is can be made by 5 counsel.
6 Now, Mr. Gallo, did you have a comment?
7 MR. GALLO: Just that the specifications are 8 written by engineers, and their interpretation is 9 appropriately rendered by an engineer such as Mr. Kurtz.
10 I don't believe a legal argument is what's at issue 11 here.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I just didn't want to put 13 Mr. Kurtz on the spot.
14 THE WITNESS: One thing I can make clear is 15 that the provisions of 401.19.2 were not intended to 16 impose AWS D1.3 upon the contractor.
17 401.19 is entitled, " Field Welding Inspection 18 Requirements," and the intent of that particular 19 paragraph was to give clarifications for the cases where 20 AWS D1.1 was being used and 401.19, and AWS Dl.3 was 21 being used and 401.19.2.
22 Now, that -- that -- that's standard phrasing that 23 was included in a number of specifications at the 24 Braidwood site, so this -- this was just like standard I
25 phraseology that was being used.
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1 It wasn't intended to impose additional -- l 2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well --
3 THE WITNESS: -- requirements for the welding 4 in accordance with Dl.3.
5 It was just addressing the specific issue of field i
6 welding inspection.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I don't know that we 8 have any arguments by anyone that the D1.3 was imposed 9 on anyone.
10 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
11 Q It seems to me as though Amendment 30 wasn't an 12 imposition, but just an agreement with regard to the 13 current status of the contract specifications.
14 Isn't that so?
15 A Yes.
16 Q And whatever the parties to the contract specifications 17 agree to, I assume, would govern; isn't that so?
18 A Yes, definitely.
19 And the only point that I was trying to make there 20 was that 401.19.2, as included in Amendment 30, was not l~
21 intended to impose the requirements of AWS Dl.3 upon the 22 contractor.
l 23 Q Well, okay.
24 You have already stated that, and that's in the l
(} 25 record.
l I Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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l A Okay.
2 Q But now let's return to your prefiled testimony, and 3 let's look at Page 11 -- again, part of your answer to 4 Question 9 -- which says, "In this case, the contractor 5 has not requested permission to use the current 6 provisions of AWS Dl.l."
7 Were you now referring, when you said " current 8 provision," to AWS Dl.3?
9 A No. I was referring to AWS Dl.1, as far as in the 10 respect that editions of AWS Dl.1 from 1979 and later, 11 for the welding of base metals under one-eighth inch, 12 require that that welding be in accordance with AWS 13 Dl.3.
14 Q Well, now, let's look at your next sentence.
15 "In fact, Specification L2790 has been amended to 16 permit the use of AWS Dl.3."
17 So, in fact, you are recognizing this amendment, 18 aren't you, sir, Amendment 30?
19 A Oh, no, sir. That was in a subsequent amendment. I
(
20 believe it was Amendment 42, if we have that.
l 21 Q Oh, I see.
22 A It wasn't Amendment 30 that added that provision.
23 Q so what you were saying here is that Amendment 30 didn't 24 actually permit the use of AWS Dl.3, but later Amendment 25 42 did; is that --
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s-l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9109 1 A Yes.
. 2 .I -- I -- I don't want to be held to that Amendment 3 42. It was a later amendment that did that.
4 Q A later amendment 5 So, then, it's your position that Amendment 30's 6 Section 401.19.2 didn't even permit the use of AWS Dl.3; 7 is that so?
8 A Yes, sir, yes, sir.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
10 Now, we've just received what we'll mark, for 11 identification, as Board Exhibit 5, which is the Welding gg 12 Journal for October,1984, which the witness has U
13 testified to.
14 (The document was.thereupon marked Board 15 Exhibit No. 5 for identification as of 16 July 29, 1986.)
17 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
18 Q And just to tie down the testimony -- the prefiled 19 testimony -- that we wanted to establish here, if you 20 look to Page 36, it refers to an AWS formal 21 interpretation, which clearly states that work is to be 22 performed to the Code year specified in the contract 23 documents.
24 And this is a reference, is it not, to the journal
(} 25 rather than to the response to the specific request by Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
9110 1 Mr. Hayes?
2 A Yes, sir. t 3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
4 That's fine.
5 BOARD EXAMINATION 6 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN:
7 0 Just for completeness, Mr. Kurtz, referring to the Code 8 case in the October issue -- October,1984, issue of the 9 Welding Journal, which appears on Page 64 of that issue, 10 which has been marked as Board Exhibit 35:
11 Which of the interpretations is under discussion g 12 here?
J It's Interpretation Dl-84-015.
13 A 14 Q All right.
15 Thank you.
16 Now, if we can come back to what has been 17 discussed, in particular your prefiled testimony on Page 18 10, the Question and Answer 9.
19 The inquiry, I think you said, originated within 20 the welding -- the inquiry referred to here originated 21 within the AWS itself?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q Now, let's take the words after the quote, "May the 24 current Code" -- that is, (AWS Dl.1) -- let's tie the
(} 25 Dl.1 in the parentheses to the word " current" preceding Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 it, and let's get a date on this.
- 2 Now, what ni,1 is the current Code alluded to 3 there?
4 A If you would look at the second line, "
Subject:
AWS 5 Dl.1-84," at the time of the interpretation, that was 6 the current Code.
7 Q I'm terribly sorry.
8 Look at what?
9 A Okay. It has the interpretation and then the Dl .
10 Under that it has date issued and subject AWS Dl.1-84.
11 Q So in the fifth line of your Answer 9, the Dl.1 given 12 there is 19847 O 13 A Well, I -- I would say that the -- it's referring to the m
14 generality of the current Code. It is an example of 15 that.
16 At that particular time, when the interpretation 17 was issued, it was Dl.1-84; but the question is a 18 general one and not a specific one to Dl.1-84.
19 Q Well, the word " current" must have some meaning.
20 A Yes.
21 Q Now, what is its meaning?
22 Is it 1984?
23 A For this interpretation, it was 1984.
24 (Indicating.)
{) 25 0 Whereas, the contract tor Braidwood, which laid down the Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
9112 1 requirements subject considered here, was dated when---
, 2 about when?
3 A Oh, it was dated -- in the early part of '76 is when the 4 first -- when the first issue -- the contract issue of 5 Specification L2790 waa originated.
6 (Indicating.)
7 Q You said 1976?
8 A That's right.
9 Q And what was the' version of Dl.1 then current or then in 10 effect?
11 A At that time it was Dl.1-1975.
- 12 0 When did Dl.3 first appear?
13 A Some time in 1978.
14 Q After the contract date?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q So is it not true that, as of the contract date, the 17 principal, if not the sole -- and you can correct me on 18 this, certainly -- American Welding Society Code was 19 Dl.1-1975?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q And haven't we said in here -- or read in here that
, 22 that's compelling throughout the life of the contract?
23 A Yes, definitely.
24 0 It may be changed, but --
{} 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
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1 What are we referring to as "here"?
2 Are you talking about the prefiled testimony?
3 Let's specify in the record what we mean by "here."
4 JUDGE CALLIHAN: In this discussion.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, in this discussion.
6 Okay.
7 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Here, now.
8 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN:
9 0 Well, let me go back. I'm afraid I lost something.
10 At the time of the contract, which you place as 11 mid '70's --
12 A Yes, sir.
13 0 -- the American Welding Society code then in effect was 14 Dl.1-1975; correct?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Did the contract embody, therefore, that particular 17 edition of the welding Code?
18 A Yes, sir, it did.
19 Q And I think you said that holds even to today?
20 A Yes, it does.
21 Q And I think you also said that Dl.3 hadn't even been 22 conceived, perhaps --
23 A Exactly right.
24 0 -- at that time?
(} 25 And, therefore, to expect 1.3 to appear in a Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9114 1 contract, and, therefore, have it be somewhat binding --
2 A It would be unreasonable.
, 3 Q All right.
4 And those matters covered in the interpretation, 5 then -- or considering for a moment the matters 6 addressed in the interpretation, which is part of Board 7 Exhibit 5, in which, as I read, specifically addresses 8 the 1984 version of D1.1, how do those items in 9 Dl.1-1984 addressed in the interpretation dif fer from 10 corresponding requirements or passages in the 1975 11 edition of Dl.l?
12 A Okay. The differences between Dl.1-1984 and AWS O 13 Dl.1-1975 are significant.
14 I would -- is that what you are getting at, Judge?
15 (Indicating.)
16 Q I guess so.
17 I didn't quite say it that way, but that's a way to 18 consider it.
19 The interpretation addresses some statements,
- 20 requirements, specific in the 1984 --
21 A Yes.
22 -- edition of Dl.l? l 0 <
23 Now, do those items addressed there in themselves 24 differ significantly from that corresponding part of the 25 1975 edition of Dl.l?
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1 A Well, in the respect of what is the applicable Code, no, 2 there would be no difference.
3 I think that what this interpretation is doing is 4 acknowledging that there are differences in editions of 5 the Code that are issued in the various years; but what 6 it's saying is that in order -- well, we'll leave the 7 reasons unstated, but what it is stating is that the 8- contract document governs the work and the contract 9 document establishes the codes of record for a 10 particular contract, and that that -- that.there is no 11 need to automatically update as subsquent editions of 12 the Code are issued.
O 13 (Indica ting. )
14 Q Does the interpretation in any way say that the contract 15 has to now be changed to Dl.1-1984?
16 A No. It's just the opposite. It says that it doesn't 17 need to be changed.
18 JUDGE CALLIHAN: All right.
l 19 Thank you.
20 BOARD EXAMINATION l
. 21 BY JUDGE COLE:
l
! 22 Q We've gone considerably past your five minutes that was 23 originally estimated.
24 I just have one or two questions.
{} 25 In Board Exhibit 5 -- do you have that?
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1 That's the article from the --
2 A Yes, sir.
3 0 -- AWS Welding Journal.
4 In the interpretation of D1-84-015, in the 5 statement of the inquiry, the example that is stated for 6 comparison purposes -- AWS Dl.1-80 comparing that to AWS 7 Dl.1-84 for comparison purposes -- AWS Dl.3 was already 8 included in the AWS Dl.1-80, was it not, sir?
9 A Yes, it was.
10 0 Is it your position that had the comparison example been 11 stated as AWS Dl.1-75, that the response would be 12 exactly the same?
O 13 A Yes, sir, that is my position; and, in fact, that point 14 is amplified by the American Welding Society's response 15 to Mr. Hayes' letter.
16 Q Yes, I was going to get to that, sir.
17 Could you specify where it's stated in that letter?
- 18 A Well, referring to Inquiry No. 3, to skip a sentence or f 19 two, it says, "Is it permissible to perform welding to 20 AWS Dl.1-75 on materials less than an eighth of an ',
l l 21 inch," remembering that this was an inquiry made in 1
! 22 1984, referring to the 1975 Code, and the response from l
23 AWS was, "Yes. The Code specified in the contract 24 document applies unless modified by the engineer," and I
(} 25 they, in fact, cross-reference the interpretation that l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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LJ l we've teen discussing from the Welding Journal.
I 2 Q Thank you,, sir.
3 Now, Judge Grossman asked you some questions about 4 Page 4-3 in Applicaat's Exhibit 16 --
5 A Yes.
6 0 -- where reference is r.:ade to the AWS Dl.3 Code.
7 Why is reference made on that page to AWS Dl.3 if 8 AWS Dl.3 is not being used at the site?
9 A Well, that -- that's a very good question.
10 The answer is -- refers to trying to standardize 11 inspection requirements, and we were just using standard 12 phraseology for all of the site specifications at that 13 time, some of which -- some of the contractors were 14 using AWS Dl.3.
15 So what you see there is standard phraseology that 16 refers to welding inspection requirements, specifying 17 welding inspection requirements, bearing in mind that 18 401.19.2 is a subparagraph of the 401.19 Field Welding l 19 Inspection Requirements.
l l 20 Q All right, sir.
21 So there are other contractors, other than l 22 Comstock, that are, in fact, using Dl.3 --
23 A Yes, sir.
24 0 -- upon their own choice?
25 A Yes, sir.
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9118 LJ l Q And Comstock did not make such a request, so Dl.3 Would 2 not apply to them --
3 A Exactly.
4 0 -- as used in-Applicant's Exhibit 16?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 JUDGE COLE: All right.
7 Thank you.
8 BOARD EXAMINATION 9 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
10 0 I'm not sure I understand that last series of questions 11 and answers.
, 12 Are you saying now that revisions to -- well, first O- 13 of all, Specification No. L2790, did that apply to all 14 the contractors at the Braidwood site?
15 A Oh, no; just -- it is applied specifically to the 16 electrical installation work being performeU by 17 Comstock.
l 18 (Indicating.)
19 Q And in 1984, to the installations being made by l 20 Comstock; is that right?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q And so any provisions in L2790 would relate only to i 23 Comstock; isn't that so?
24 A That's right.
25 Well, perhaps it would help help understanding if
{~}
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1 you would view that as inclusion of a standard form. It 2 would be no different.
3 Standard Form 1701, for example, includes many 4 things that would be not applicable to Comstock's scope 5 of work; and all that we were doing was trying to 6 standardize the field welding inspection requirements, 7 so we used the same phraseology throughout all the site 8 specs, so some points would be appliccble, come points 9 wouldn't be applicable.
10 (Indicating.)
11 Q Well, how is one to determine, from the contract 12 specifications, which provisions that are specifically 13 incorporated in the contract aren't applicable to the 14 work being done at the site?
15 A Well, inspectors would inspect to the written procedures
! 16 developed by their own inspection organization.
17 Specifically, in other words, Comstock inspectors 18 would be inspecting to Comstock procedures, so the 19 Comstock inspection procedures would include the 20 pertinent requirements from Specification L2790.
l 21 (Indicating.)
22 Q But my understanding is that the governing document is
?? Specification No. L2790, and that all the procedures are 24 required to conform to the governing instrument; isn't
(} 25 that correct?
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1 A That's right.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I don't have any further 3 questions on this.
' 4 Have counsel any further questions on this?
5 You will have your chance again if Mr. Kurtz is on 6 again, but you can certainly ask what you want now.
7 I think the record is pretty clear.
8 JUDGE CALLIHAN: I have a question.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm sorry.
10 BOARD EXAMINATION 11 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN:
12 Q I come back, as have'others, to 401.19-2 at the bottom
, (
13 of 4-3 of L2790.
14 Is there being done -- or has there recently been 15 done at Braidwood any welding by Comstock, to be 16 specific, under AWS D1.3?
17 A No, sir.
I 18 Q So this 19.2 merely says if and when 19.3 -- I beg your 19 pardon -- Dl.3 welding is done, then you will follow to 20 Code?
r i
21 A Exactly right.
- 22 Q And that's all it says?
23 A Right, for the attributes of field welding inspection,
( 24 yes, sir.
25 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Fine.
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1 Thank you.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I don't understand 3 that last answer.
4 BOARD EXAMINATION 5 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
6 Q If it says when you are welding under D 1.3, then you 7 are welding under Dl.3.
8 I don't know whether that means anything.
9 Is that what you are saying now, Mr. Kurtz?
10 A Well, the -- the point of 401.19.2 -- let-me take my 11 time and try and rephrase this.
12 When it says, "AWS Dl.3 welding shall conform to 13 the requirements of AWS Dl.3," what they are referring 14 to specifically is for the attribute of when you are 15 doing your inspection of your field welds, when -- if 16 the weld itself was fabricated in accordance with Dl.3, 17 you need to follow the weld inspection requirements of 18 AWS Dl.3.
19 (Indicating.)
20 So it's intended to be a conditional statement.
21 MR. GALLO: I think the witness is suggesting 22 you are reading too much into the language.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That I read what?
24 MR. GALLO: That you are reading too much
(} 25 into the language.
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1 MR. GUILD: Plain meaning, perhaps.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Maybe that I'm reading the 3 language; but we're not going to argue --
4 MR. GALLO: All right.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- on what our opinion ought 6 to be or what's going to'be in the briefs.
7 I'd just like to clarify whatever the statement 8 made means here, and I think we have a sufficient basis.
9 I am trying not to argue the point; but when I hear 10 some arguments that I can't understand, I'm trying to 11 clarify the record, not trying to push any position 12 here.
O 13 Does any counsel have further questions on this?
14 Mr. Guild.
15 MR. GUILD: Very briefly, Mr. Chairman.
16 CROSS EXAMINATION 17 BY MR. GUILD:
18 Q Mr. Kurtz, you have your prefiled testimony before you?
19 A Yes, I do.
20 0 Would you turn to Question and Answer 7, please.
21 I believe it's at Page 8.
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did you prepare that question and answer?
24 MR. GALLO: Obj ection.
(} 25 That's beyond the scope of the Board's questioning.
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9123 1 Did you ask questions --
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, no, we did ask about 3 Question 7, and so I think that's --
4 MR. GALLO: Well, I'm mistaken then.
5 I withdraw the objection.
6 A Yes, sir, I did prepare that.
7 BY MR. GUILD:
8 Q Was it true when you prepared it?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q Is it true today?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Did you prepare Question and Answer 8?
13 A Yes, sir.
14 0 Was it true when you prepared it?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Is it true today?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q Did you prepare Question and Answer 9 --
19 MR. BERRY: What was the last one?
20 MR. GUILD: 9.
21 BY MR. GUILD:
22 0 -- beginning at Page 10 of your testimony?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 0 And was it true at the time that you prepared it?
(} 25 MR. GALLO: I would ask the witness have an Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 opportunity to read his answer.
2 MR. GUILD: Please take whatever time is 3 necessary, Mr. Kurtz.
4 A Yes, it was.
5 BY MR. GUILD:
6 Q Have you had an opportunity to review the question and 7 answer?
8 A Yes, I have.
9 Q Was it true at the time? .
10 A Oh, excuse me.
11 Let me go to the Page 11.
12 O Yes, yes.
13 A Yes, I have reviewed the entire question.
14 Q All right.
15 And was it true at the time you prepared it?
16 A Yes.
17 Q All right.
18 And is it true today?
19 A Yes.
L 20 MR. GUILD: No further questions.
21 JUDGE GRGiSMAN: " hey are not in evidence l 22 now, Mr. Guild, unless you move them into evidence.
23 MR. GUILD: I don't, Mr. Chairman.
t 24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
(} 25 Mr. Berry.
l l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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I 1
(_s) i 1 MR. BERRY: Very brief, your Honor.
2 CROSS EXAMINATION 3 BY MR. BERRY:
4 Q Mr. Kurtz, referring now to Board Exhibit 5, which is 5 the welding -- the interpretations:
6 Is there any way we could tell who the subject or 7 the requester of tne various interpretations was? Can 8 you tell?
9 A Not from this, not from the Welding Journal.
I 10 Q How would you find that out?
11 A Well, the only way you could find that out is from the
( 12 internal correspondence from the American Welding V) 13 Society.
14 For example, if you -- the -- well, let me just say ,
15 that if you yourself had initiated a response, the 16 response -- an inquiry -- excuse me.
17 If you yourself would have initiated an inquiry, 18 the response would have come to you, so you would have f 19 direct knowledge of that.
20 Otherwise, you wouldn't have knowledge of the 21 cource of the inquiry.
22 Q Now, Board Exhibit 3, which is the letter from Mr. Hayes 23 to Mr. Davis, do you know if that's the only -- the only 24 inquiry or interpretation question by Mr. Hayes or 25 someone from Sargent & Lundy, other persons from l
(])
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V 1 Commonwealth Edison, of the AWS Code regarding this 2 question or issues that have been raised by Mr. Puckett?
3 A Concerning -- as far as issues concerning the 4 applicability.of AWS 1.3?
5 0 Yes.
6 A Yes -- well, excuse me. I have no other knowledge of 7 any other inquiry relating to this issue; and I might 8 add, I have searched for relevant records and documents.
9 (Indicating . )
10 Q Okay.
11 Well, to be more specific, other interpretations in 12 this Board Exhibit 5 that appear similar to some of the 13 concerns raised by Mr. Puckett; and the question that I 14 would ask you is:
15 Do you know if those -- those requests were also --
16 those interpretations were also given in response to a 17 request from Commonwealth Edison or Sargent & Lundy?
18 In particular, I would direct your attention to 19 Interpretation Dl-84-3014 (6) and Dl-84-014 (7).
20 A No, I do not have knowledge of the source of those 21 inquiries.
22 (Indicating.)
23 MR. BERRY: That's all, your Honor.
24 BOARD EXAMINATION 25 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
(])
l
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9127 s_/
1 Q Well, now, just to clarify for the record, you are not 2 suggesting, are you, that Mr. Hayes' inquiry was 3 considered by AWS at the time they issued the 4 interpretations in the October, 1984, journal?
5 A Oh, no, sir.
6 Q That was after the October, '84, issue was published; 7 isn't that so?
8 A Exactly right.
9 ,
The AWS interpretation that appears in this journal 10 was issued on August 1st. It was a response to -- Mr.
11 . Hayes' letter from AWS was issued on November 19th, and, 12 you know, the dates wouldn't match.
13 (Indicating.)
14 BOARD EXAMINATION 15 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN:
16 0 I may have misunderstood Mr. Berry's question.
17 I thought you told me a few minutes ago, Mr. Kurtz, 18 that the inquiry that you referred to in your Answer 9 l 19 of your prefiled testimony, Page 10, where it says, l
20 quote, "An inquiry to AWS," unquote, that that was an l
l 21 internally-generated internal to AWS.
22 Now, that'r what I heard you tell me.
23 A That's right; and the -- the phraseology might be 24 imprecise there.
}
() 25 The reason why AWS took the time to issue their own Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 inquiry and their own answer is that the secretary was 2 receiving this question in one form or another on a 3 rather continuous basis, so --
4 Q From whom?-
5 A From various users of the Code, nuclear and non-nuclear.
6 Q Outside of -- or unofficially -- I apologize.
7 They received them from industry?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And so AWS took it on itself to raise the question?
10 A Right; and -- in a formal-manner, and publish the 11 results.
12 (Indicating.)
O- -
13 Q All right.
14 And Mr. Hayes just came along some time later and 15 added more to it?
16 A That's right.
17 JUDGE CALLIHAN: All right.
18 Thank you.
19 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, obviously the ;
20 witness can't speculate about what motivated the 21 secretary of the American Welding Society to do ,
4 22 anything.
23 So I assume this reflects his understanding, 24 whatever the source might be, but is not evidence as to
, /~T 25 what prompted the publication of this interpretation.
t (_/
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9129 gx b) 1 THE WITNESS: Well, if I can, I did --
2 MR. GUILD: No, you can't.
3 THE WITNESS: -- I did talk with Dr. Davis.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm sorry.
5 What?
6 THE WITNESS: I did have a direct 7 conversation with Dr. Davis.
8 MR. GUILD: It's hearsay in the fact that 9 he's relying on someone who is not present.
10 But the fact remains I understand the witness' 11 testimony is not to establish as a fact the source of 12 this interpretation.
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's correct. Whatever 14 the importance is for that, I believe you are correct, 15 Mr. Guild, and I don't see why it would be profitable to 16 go into that, so let's just drop it.
17 Whether anyone made that direct inquiry or whether 18 that was internally produced by AWS I don't think has 19 any relevance here.
20 Okay. I see there are no further questions, and 21 we'll let the witness -- ,
22 MR. GALLO: Your Honor.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo.
24 I'm sorry.
(} 25 MR. GALLO: I was waiting for other counsel -
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1 (S) 1 to finish.
2 I, indeed, have no questions for Mr. Kurtz.
3 However, I do reserve the right to call Mr. Kurtz 4 as a rebuttal witness to cover appropriate matters, 5 including this subject, your Honor.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes. I've already indicated 7 that we're not going to prejudice any of the parties 8 from asking their own questions and answers to Mr.
9 Kurtz, even on this matter, after they've digested what 10 we've had here this morning.
11 MR. GALLO: One last point:
12 What is the evidentiary status of Board Exhibits 3, 13 4 and 5?
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We're going to move them 15 into the record right now.
I 16 So those exhibits are admitted.
17 (The documents were thereupon received 18 into evidence as Board Exhibits Nos. 3, 4 19 and 5.)
20 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Any objection?
21 (Laughter.)
22 MR. GALLO: I have nothing further for Mr.
23 Kurtz, then.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Thank you very much,
(} 25 Mr. Kurtz.
4 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 I expect we'll be seeing you again before the end 4
2 of the hearing.
3 THE WITNESS: Okay.
4 MR. GALLO: Can we have five minutes?
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Sure.
6 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which 7 the hearing was resumed as follows:)
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Martin, we're going 9 to -- Mr. Martin.
10 THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAU: Okay.
12 We're going to ask you to step out because we have 13 a confidential matter not concerning you --
14 THE WITNESS: Okay.
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- and we'll call you in a 16 few minutes.
17 (Witness excused.)
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Off the record.
19 (There followed a discussion outside the 20 record.)
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We're back in session.
22 I believe Mr. Berry has contacted OI during the 23 recess, and we'll have a report from him now.
24 MR. BERRY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
(j 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Is the mike on?
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1 MR. BERRY: Over the recess, I did contact 2 officials from the Office of Investigations, and they've ;
3 . informed me that the OI does plan to respond to the i 4 Board's preliminary -- to the Board's ruling.
5 Apparently the attorney directly responsible for l 6 the matter is ill, and that is why the Board doesn't 7 have a copy 6f.that response in its hands.
8 I learned from the Office of Investigations they do 9 plan to respond to it, and they expect to file a 10 response by tomorrow.
11 I should note that the response would be from 12 headquarters in Washington to the Region and brought
- Os 13 down to the hearing, made available to the Board.
14 So given those logistics, it may be the next day, 15 it may be Thursday morning or so, but it could be as 16 early as tomorrow morning.
17 It just depends on when it's done and how long it 18 takes to transmit it; but --
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
20 Now, do you know whether they are going to touch on
-21 the issue of subpoenaes?
22 -- MR . BERRY: Yes.
j 23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes?
24 MR. BERRY: Yes.
25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: So you are really asking us
- (}
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9133 t-b) 1 to hold off a little longer than the end of today, as we 2 had planned, with regard to issuing a subpoena?
3 MR. BERRY: Yes, that's correct.
4 The Staff would ask the Board to hold in abeyance 5 making a ruling on that until it receives a response; 6 and I'm informed that that response will come within the 7 next day or so.
8 JUDGE GROSShAN: Okay.
9 I hope that the response will have some 10 recommendation or some direction on behalf of the 11 Commission, because I think, unless there's some 12 interpretation that we can accept, which I think is
-)
13 doubtful on the basis for either issuing or denying a 14 subpoena, that we're inclined to go ahead unless we have 15 some direction on behalf of the Commission, so I think 16 you ought to suggest.
I 17 In other words, if it's just a differing 18 interpretation, without any direction on behalf of the l
19 Commission -- by an authorized representative or by the 20 Commission itself, we'll have to make our interpretation 21 and act accordingly.
! 22 MR. BERRY: Just so I'm clear, Mr. Chairman:
23 You referred to direction or recommendation on l.
l 24 behalf of the Commission.
(} 25 Are you intimating that the response should purport Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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i 9134 e I k_m) l 1 to be authorized or to speak for the Commission itself?
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I would hope so, if it's in 3 the nature of requesting us not to issue the subpoena, 4 because we have to make an interpretation, and we've 5 made our interpretation, and, of course, if we're 6 persuaded otherwise by a differing interpretation, we'll 7 change our position, but if our position stays the same, 8 then I think we ought to go ahead and do it, unless 9 we're directed otherwise by someone who can direct us.
10 MR. BERRY: I understand.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Now, Judge Cole wanted me to 12 ask whether what we're going to be getting is some 13 direction to us -- or some suggestion, rather, to the 14 Commission.
15 You don't know the nature of what we're going to 16 get, do you?
17 MR. BERRY: Well, my understanding is this 18 would be a paper, a pleading, filed with the Commission 19 and copies served on the Board, so --
20 MR. GALLO: Judge Grossman, could I be heard 21 on this question?
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Certainly.
23 MR. GALLO: As I understand the Ccmmission's 24 Policy Statement -- first of all, as I understand the
(} 25 Board's ruling, that it was -- it was grounded on -- it Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 involved questions of whether or not the OI 2 investigation would be compromised and also the question 3 of confidentiality.
4 Now, the Policy. Statement requires, if any 5 Licensing Board action is based on compromising 6 confidentiality, an automatic referral to the 7 Commission.
8 With respect to the compromised -- or to potential 9 compromise of an investigation, that's, in the first 10 instance, up to OI to voice an objection, and if they 11 do, then it's referred to the Commission for action.
12 I sense that the Board may be treating the subpoena 13 issue as not within the purview of either of those two 14 agencies; and it seems to me that the subpoena is so 15 inextricably linked to those two points that the 16 subpoena -- the propriety of issuing the subpoena is 17 also caught up in that review process, so that the Board 18 cannot take independent action once OI objects, if they 19 do, on the question of compromising the investigation, 20 or they can't take action if the basis is the other one, 21 which is the compromise of the identity of the 22 individual.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: My understanding of that 24 Policy Statement is that we are not to disclose the
(} 25 identity of the alleger without Commission action, nor Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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(-) 1 1 are we to even if OI agrees that the alleger's identity 2 can be disclosed, and also we are not to disclose the 3 matters in the investigation if we would compromise the 4 investigation.
5 If OI opposes that, that would be another 6 Commission ruling; but it is correct that we do not 7 believe that the question of subpoena really falls 8 within that Policy Statement.
9 It is certainly related to it; but the-identity of 10 whom Intervenors wish to subpoena is known to them and 11 to everyone else, and we're certainly not compromising
-s 12 the identity of any alleger.
b 13 We're issuing a subpoena to someone who has been 14 mentioned in the proceeding; but we are giving the 15 Commission an opportunity to say, even though we don't 16 see any legal basis for it, that this is somehow 17 connected to their Policy Statement and they wish to 18 direct us to do otherwise than what appears to be the 19 legal requirement with regard to authorizing subpoena.
20 So we're giving the Commission an opportunity; but 21 I don't personally see how that issue is covered in the 22 Policy Statement.
23 MR. GALLO: Well, I won't debate that point
, 24 with you, Judge Grossman; but I would suggest that, and i
(} 25 that the Board's providing an opportunity to the l
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1 Commission is an appropriate course of action.
2 But did the Board refer the matter for 3 consideration officially to the Commission for an answer 4 on this or are you seeking it indirectly through OI?
5 If it's the latter, I don't think that's proper 6 procedure.
7 The. Board, I think, more appropriately should have 8 referred the question directly to the five Commissioners 9 for an answer.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, that's if the Board 11 thinks that there is any question about the 12 interpretation; but as far as a legal basis for issuing O. 13 subpoena -- for subpoenaes, I haven't seen anything that 14 would suggest that the requirements haven't been 15 satisfied.
16 MR. GALLO: But you have given the Commission 17 some time to give a contrary view if they choose.
18 How are they aware that they have this opportunity?
19 That's my question.
'l 20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I would think that OI, 21 and General Counsel, which is in contact with OI, should 22 have brought that to the attention of the Commission.
23 But I will say that I notified, ex parte, for no 24 reason -- and that's the easiest way of doing that --
(} 25 Mr. Treby that we are issuing the memorandum on the date Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9138 1 we issued it -- I believe it was last Tuesday -- and 2 that there will be in there mention of the subpoena, and 3 that he ought to alert OI and General Counsel that there 4 is some action that might be taken.
5 I didn't argue any merits to it. I just pointed it 6 out; and hopefully they will take the ball.
7 If they are the ones who are interested in somehow 8 quashing a subpoena or seeing that it is not issued, 9 they ought to take the step of notifying the Commission 10 or its representative that some action ought to be 11 taken.
12 Now --
13 MR. BERRY: Judge, I don't --
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We are holding off an 15 additional amount of time as requested by Staff this 16 morning.
17 Mr. Berry.
18 MR. BERRY: Excuse me. Mr. Chairman.
19 I don't purport to speak for the Office of 20 Investigations, but it's my understanding their response 21 to request for the subpoenaes -- I don't -- at this 22 time, I'm not privy to the legal bases that underlie 23 that response, but I would not be surprised if they did 24 take the position that that request is inextricably
(} 25 intertwined with the other matters involved in this; but Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9139 (J-1 you will have their response in the next day or so.
2 This may address all of the concerns that counsel 3 for the Applicant has raised and the Staff has raised as 4 well.
5 MR. GALLO: Well, your Honor, I hear yourself 6 -and Mr. Berry talking -- communicating at different 7 levels.
6 I understand very well what you have said.
9 Mr. Berry made it clear that no one is seeking the 10 attention of the Commission in this matter.
11 I don't understand that this process should go by 12 default. Maybe I misunderstood Mr. Berry.
13 MR. BERRY: Well, I understand OI is going to 14 file a response; I'm aware, I guess, has access or is in 15 communication with the Commission.
16 I don't know if it's going to be a-direct 17 communication; but I'll relay this. I'll relay the 18 parties' concerns to the Office of Investigations.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Mr. Gallo, I have no
! 20 objection to your filing a motion for directed 21 certification of the issue, if you wish, today.
22 I mean, it seems to me as though the legal basis is 23 clear, and I've said that before.
24 I just don't see any grounds for denying the
(}
25 requested subpoena; but I have no objection to being Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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(%-j) 1 directed by the Commission to not issuing it.
2 I'm not suggesting that to them.
3 From the way I have analyzed the regulations and 4 the basis for issuing subpoenaes, I think I'm correct on 5 that, but I'm governed by whatever they wish to direct 6 me to do.
7 On the other hand, since it is not an unclear issue 8 to me, I didn't think that I should -- that the Board 9 should ask for directed certification, because it seems J
10 to be a black and white issue, but I can learn otherwise 11 from the Commission.
J 12 Sometimes what I think is black, they think is 13 white.
14 MR. GALLO: Well, I would urge --
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: If it were a gray area, 16 perhaps we would be inclined to ask for directed 17 certification ourselves.
18 MR. GALLO: I would -- given the 19 circumstances, I would, indeed, move for directed
, 20 certification.
l 21 However, I would modify my motion to this effect:
22 I would be -- I think it is -- the Board has taken 23 a good many steps to attempt to bring this to the l 24 Commission's attention, in either working through OI or
(} 25 through Staff Counsel, but I would simply limit my Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 motion to requesting the Chairman to notify either the 2 Secretary or the General Counsel directly and tell him 3 what the situation is and that they are now on notice of 4 just exactly what you have already explained, so that if 5 they, indeed -- that what you are looking for is not 6 argument from OI as a representative of the Commission.
7 What you are looking for is guidance, really, from the 8 Commission whether, from the Policy Standpoint, they 9 believe the subpoena should not issue; and that's --
10 that point I'm sure -- I'm not sure has been made c! eat.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I think it's certainly S 12 made clear on today's record; and --
13 MR. BERRY: It is now.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- Mr. Berry can contact Mr.
15 Treby and his other superiors and make it plain that 16 we've done what we -- I think we've gone beyond what our l
17 obligaticns is, having read the Policy Statement and the
, 18 regulations on subpoenaes, to connect the two items l 19 together and to allow the Commission the time to direct 20 us otherwise.
21 So I think you've accomplished your purpose now; 22 and maybe -- well, I don't know if we want to take 23 another recess now.
24 MR. BERRY: I'll do it over the luncheon 25 recess.
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's fine. ,
1 2 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, let me only make 3 this point:
4 That Applicant is making an ironic argument here
. 5 where, in the pleading that was unsuccessful trying to 6 exclude this entire matter from litigation, they argued 7 that Intervenors were dilatory for not having moved on 8 the independent facts and information that they asserted 9 we had at a time earlier than now.
10 For them to now suggest that somehow this party is 11 not permitted to move forward on a matter that has been i
- 12 already identified as relevant, independent of whether 13 OI thinks it's of interest -- and it happens to be the l 14 subject of an OI investigation -- but relevant evidence i
15 to the licensing of this plant, it seems to me it, as a 16 matter of fact, is sheer obstructionism on the part of i
f 17 Applicant.
l 18 I can't understand, for the life of me, how Mr.
19 Gallo can advance the argument that he advanced, getting 20 admitted this issue by way of a new contention or as l 21 within the scope of the contention, that we are dilatory i
22 for not moving, and then, when we move for the issuance
- 23 of a subpoena, which is a ministerial act -- rules 24 absolutely apparent that the Chairman is not authorized l
(} 25 to inquire into even the admissibility of the matter in Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9143 1 evidence, it's simply relevant to the general subject 2 matter -- and how it's Applicant's position that it 3 would -- it's beyond the power of this party to litigate 4 this aspect of the case.
5 Now, it seems to me that at least Applicant should 6 concede that the delay that it's causing right now of is 7 delay of its making and not delay of Intervenors. We 8 want to move on this matter.
9 I don't know what other action we can take to 10 expeditiously press other than we have, Mr. Chairman.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. The Board wants to 12 move on this, also, and that's why we're trying to put 13 the ball in the court of the Commission, so it can move 14 on this, if it desires, or otherwise desist and let us 15 move forward on this matter.
16 With regard to Applicant taking inconsistent 17 positions, well, there's no requirement that -- if 18 that's the case, there's no requirement that it take i 19 consistent positions at every issue.
20 It offers whatever arguments are in its behalf on a 21 particular issue, and especially since we haven't 22 adopted the position.
23 Once we adopt the position, then maybe they 24 shouldn't be taking an inconsistent position; but that's 25 a question of appropriate legal argument.
(]}
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1 So --
2 MR. GUILD: Fine.
3 JUDGE GROSSKAN: -- let's just go on to the 4 witness now.
5 5 MR. BERRY: Mr. Chairman --
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Could someone call Mr.
7 Martin back?
1 8 MR. BERRY: Before we do that, Mr. Chairman, 4
9 I have one other matter I'd like to bring to the 10 parties' attention.
11 This relates to a scheduling matter. It relates to 12 Mr. McGregor.
13 I'm also informed that Mr. McGregor is identified 14 as an Intervenor witness, although he's a Staff 15 employee, and he is unavailable from the period August l
16 13th to August 27th.
l
! 17 I understand he has an unbreakable commitment.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Most of that period is when I 19 we're going to be in recess, anyway.
20 MR. BERRY: Yes.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Half of that, anyway.
22 MR. BERRY: Yes; the second week.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That makes it a little >
i 24 easier.
3
(} 25 JUDGE COLE: What were those dates again, Mr.
i ,
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1 Berry?
2 MR. BERRY: August 13th through August 27th.
3 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, while we're 4 clearing up some of these loose ends, Mr. Berry informed 5 me over the last recess that he is receding from his 6 position with regard to the Schulz matter, disclosure of 7 Mr. Schulz of the testimony of a prior witness, and he's 8 not going to press for that.
9 MR. BERRY: That is correct.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Let's go off the record.
11 (There followed a discussion outside the 12 record.)
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Back on the record.
14 I now understand what was just said, and that the 15 parites have agreed to whether or not Mr. Schulz should 16 have a transcript of Mr. Seeders' testimony; and we're 17 not even concerned as to whether the agreement is one 18 way or the other.
19 As long as counsel have agreed on that, that's 20 fine.
21 Now we'll recall Mr. -- oh, Mr. Martin is here.
22 Fine.
23 You remain under oath, Mr. Martin.
24 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
() 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Let's resume with the Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 questioning.
- 2. MR. GUILD: Thank you.
3 Good morning, Mr. Martin.
4 THE WITNESS: Good morning.
5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 (Continued.)
7 BY MR. GUILD:
4 8 Q It's about at least a week since you were last on the f 9 stand, and so I apologize for the break -- it was 1
10 inavoidable -- but there may be some disjointedness in 11 the examination.
12 Let's see if I can return to where we left off.
13 But first, Mr. Martin, has there been any change in 14 your employment status since you left the stand the week 15 before last?
16 A Yes, there has.
17 Q Okay.
! 18 And would you explain that to the Board and 19 parties, please?
20 A I'm on vacation right now; and the new company that I 21 work for has a new policy where we have to quit in order 22 to take a vacation, so I quit, under the contention that 23 I will have a job in a week, if nothing changes.
! 24 (Indicating.)
(} 25 Q Now, this is the MI -- Multi --
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1 A MCIS, Multi Craft Inspection Services.
2 Q Multi Craft Inspection Services.
3 The General Electric-affiliated organization you 4 work for now?
5 A' Yes.
6 Q And do I understand, from what you have said, that you 7 had a scheduled vacation?
8 A Yes. It was -- I put a request in about a 9 month-and-a-half ago, and my Comstock supervisor 10 approved it, but the MCIS people would not approve it.
11 They didn't deny it.
12 Q Who was your Comstock supervisor who approved it, Mr.
( 13 Martin?
14 A Larry Seese.
15 0 And when did he approve it?
16 Was it when you submitted it a month-and-a-half 17 ago?
l 18 A Yes.
19 Q Do you understand what the nature of that approval is by 20 Mr. Seese?
21 What does that reflect, if you know?
22 A IIe's just saying that the workload will be taken care 23 of -- can be taken care of while I was to be gone on 24 vacation.
(} 25 0 All right.
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1 And are you, as you understand it, entitled to an 2 annual vacation as a part of the contract that you are 3 under?
4 A Well, yes, the previous companies we worked for, L. K.
5 Comstock and BESTCO, all -- both had a policy of two 6 weeks' vacation a year, and when GE came in, most 7 everybody figured they would just continue with this 8 policy, but they changed the policy.
9 (Indica ting . )
10 Q How did you learn they changed the policy?
11 A No.
12 How did you learn that they changed it, if you did, Mr.
(q> Q 13 Martin?
14 A Well, a week before I was supposed to go on vacation, 15 they just canceled all vacations, period, and then they 16 said, "Well, we'll let people go, if they terminate, and 17 then if they can get back on, you know, that's fine."
18 (Indicating.)
19 Q Okay.
20 Had you made some kind of prior commitment during 21 this vacation period, Mr. Martin?
22 A Yes. Our church every year has a Vacation Bible School, 23 and I play a very important role in that, and it's just 24 something I do every year, and so I felt I needed to
() 25 take off for that.
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(O 1 Q All right.
2 Were any of your supervisors aware that you had 3 made such a commitment?
4 A Not until I put the memo in.
5 We weren't certain what the exact date of what the 6 Bible School would be until about a month-and-a-half 7 ago.
O As soon as we learned the exact date, I put a memo 9 in right away.
10 0 That's what I mean, 11 That's the memo Mr. Seese approved?
12 A Yes.
d 13 Q So he was aware that you had this commitment?
14 A Yes.
15 0 Okay.
16 How about the people who took over -- how about the 17 BESTCO people at that time:
18 Were they aware of it?
19 A I'm not -- I don't think so.
20 Q How about the General Electric people and MCIS people?
21 A No, I don't think they were aware of the particular 22 circumstances up until the time that I terminated.
23 I explained to them why I was going to such an 24 extreme.
{} 25 Q Did you tell them what the circumstances were then?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q Okay.
3 And what did they say to that?
4 A Not really any comment.
5 Q Did they tell you what you have related so far, that you 6 had to essentially quit?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Okay.
9 And you may be rehired?
10 A I would have to quit; right.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Now, do I understand 12 correctly that they will not authorize any vacations, 13 but anyone who wants a vacation will have to terminate?
14 THE WITNESS: That's what they said.
15 And right now they are working on policies; but at 16 this point, they said from about a week -- well, two 17 weeks ago, they canceled all vacations, and they said if 18 you wanted to take time off, you would have to 19 terminate.
20 (Indicating.)
21 And then later on, they said, "Well, we're going to 22 work on a vacation policy"; but they don't have 23 anything -- they won't have anything for another two 24 weeks; and if I was just taking time off, I could have 25 waited, but since I had this obligation or commitment,
(]}
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b 1 whatever, I went ahead and took off.
2 (Indicating.)
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, maybe we ought to 4 recess for a few weeks so that our witnesses can be sure 5 that their testimony could be given freely.
6 You know, I think that's somewhat of an inhibiting 7 kind of requirement there, Mr. Gallo.
8 MR. GALLO: Your Honor, I'm hearing about 9 this for the first time as well.
10 We could take a recess and I could try to check 11 into it.
12 As I understand the witness' testimony, he was not O(s 13 guaranteed that he would be rehired?
14 THE WITNESS: No, I was not.
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I think that's a very 16 difficult situation for a witness to testify under.
17 MR. GALLO: Well, is today considered to be a 18 vacation day?
19 THE WITNESS: Yes, it is.
20 MR. MILLER: Well, I will just state for the 21 record that much at least is inconsistent with the 22 arrangement that I made for all Quality Control 23 Inspectors, whatever their employer was, because I did 24 not want there to be any indication that there was some 25 sort of personal sacrifice involved on their part in
(])
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1 coming and testifying, and it was to be regarded as a 2 workday and they were to be paid their normal wage, and 3 that arrangement was made with respect to Mr. Seeders 4 and every other Inspector.
5 I guess perhaps the examination can continue and I 6 will -- I, too, am hearing this for the first time.
7 I will look into this and see what I can do about 8 getting the situation resolved.
9 I would suggest that the examination continue.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I think we would like 11 some assurance, if we continue the testimony, that the 12 witness is still employed by the company; and they may 13 have that rule, but I think when we come to each 14 specific witness, if that's a rule, I'd like to see 15 whether we can waive it.
. 16 I don't think we want to take testimony from any 17 witness under those conditions.
18 Now, maybe you can't get the rule changed, but I 19 think you might be able to get some agreement with 20 regard to the particular witness that's on the stand, i
21 and we'll have it in the transcript that that's the i
22 case.
23 I think it's a very inhibiting kind of position.
24 MR. GALLO: Could I request a recess to
(} 25 discuss this matter?
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1 9153 (s-1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Sure.
2 And we may not go back on the record until after 3 lunch depending on what you can resolve.
4 I hate to waste time, but I think we want to make 5 sure that the witnesses are protected.
6 MR. GALLO: All right.
7 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which 8 the hearing was resumed as follows:)
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Back on the record.
10 We won't be getting our answer until after lunch 11 from counsel for Applicant, so we'll take a recess until 12 1:00 o' clock.
13 (WHEREUPON, the hearing was continued to 14 the hour of 1:00 o' clock P. M.)
15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 i 23 24
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1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY 1.ND LICENSING BOARD 4
__________________X 5 :
In the Matter of: :
6 : Docket No. 50-456 OL COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY : 50-457 OL 7 :
(Braidwood Station, Units 1 :
8 and 2) :
__________________X 9
10 Met pursuant to recess.
11 Thursday, July 24, 1986.
1:15 P. M.
12 0 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We are back in 14 session.
15 We have two reports due, one from Mr. Gallo and the 16 other from Mr. Berry or Mr. Miller, whoever is handling 17 that.
18 MR. MILLER: Your Honor, I have made some 19 inquiries at the site following the testimony that was 20 given this morning by Mr. Martin.
i 21 Let me first give the Board the bottom line: Mr.
22 Martin has a job, will have one when he returns from his 23 vacation on Monday and, as is the custom with all other 24 QC Inspectors who have testified here, he is being paid
{} 25 for the time that he spends in this hearing room l
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r 9155 1 regardless of the fact that he is on leave of absence or 2 vacation status.
3 But I would like, if I might, to just explain a 4 little bit of the background, lest the Board think that 5 there was something related to this, the hearing 6 process, and the events that surrounded Mr. Martin's 7 situation as he described this morning.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I will certainly allow you 9 to clarify it for the record.
10 We didn't have any understanding that that was the 11 case. We just wanted to be assured that there was no 12 way that the witness would be fearful of his job by 7-)
\- 13 testifying here; and it might be an implication to the 14 witness that that might happen.
15 But we certainly didn't conceive of counsel or the 16 Applicant, because of the case, having done anything to 17 promote that kind of situation.
18 MR. MILLER: Well, if I might just say a very 19 few words on this.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Sure.
21 MR. MILLER: It is my understanding that 22 there is currently a negotiation at Mr. Martin's current 23 employeer, MCIS, the company that replaced BESTCO as the 24 employer of the electrical scope QC Inspectors, and 25 Union 306.
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1 One of the issues to be determined is a vacation 2 policy.
3 The fact is that under the collective bargaining 4 agreement with Union 306, the QC Inspectors, as I 5 understand it, do not receive paid vacations. They did 6 not under BESTCO and they do not under the agreement 7 that this new employer has with the union.
8 Nonetheless, the control of vacations is a matter l l
9 of some concern to make sure that there is adequate 10 staffing of the inspection function at both Comstock and 11 Newberg, who does have a portion of the electrical scope 12 of work at the Braidwood site currently.
13 As to Mr. Martin, there was no problem with Mr.
14 Martin's absenteeism or with whether or not he was 15 needed.
16 I think he testified that he had talked to Mr.
. 17 Seese, who was responsible for assigning the work at 18 Comstock; and Mr. Seese had agreed that he could take 19 vacation this week, so that was not the issue at all.
- 20 Really, it was while this issue was decided between 21 the Union and Mr. Martin's employer that they put a --
22 what I anticipate would be a temporary halt on 23 vacations; and Mr. Martin, unfortunately, got caught in 1
24 this transition.
{) 25 But the situation is certainly clarified with Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9157 1 respect to his own personal situation, and I don't 2 believe we will have any other situations like it.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We will just assure 4 each witness when he testifies that whenever his 5 vacation comes, that he has a position after he returns 6 from the vacation, regardless of what his testimony is; 7 and we will do that with each witness when it comes up.
8 You may have to call the company with regard to 9 each witness, but we want to make sure that each witness t
10 has that assurance. -
11 MR. MILLER: Right.
12 I don't believe that any of the other QC Inspectors O 13 who are scheduled are individuals who, in fact, have --
14 because I did inquire -- who have vacations scheduled or 15 planned.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: They may have schedules 17 coming up, vacation plans coming up this summer, and 18 they may feel that that would be an opportunity for a 19 retaliatory act.
20 So we might want to -- I think we do want to give 21 them the assurance that, whenever their vacation comes, 22 that they will have a position at the end of their 23 vacation.
24 So I think you might have to make that and get that 25 particular assurance for each witness.
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1 I know it may be some trouble for you; but we want q 2 to make sure that there isn't any possibility of anyone 3 claiming, because of what has transpired on the record, 4 that the testimony was anything but freely given.
5 MR. MILLER: Okay. Also, that, certainly, 6 the company, Mr. Gallo, Ms. Kezelis and I want that as 7 well.
8 I will try and keep myself informed as to the 9 status of the negotiations on this vacation policy and 10 inform the Board, so that they can take account of that 11 in any remarks that they may make- to the witnesses that 12 follow Mr. Martin.
O 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Now, a report from 14 Mr. Berry.
15 Is there anything that the witness can't hear while 16 you --
17 MR. BERRY: Pardon me a moment.
, 18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Go ahead.
19 MR. BERRY: There is no need for the witness 20 to be excused.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Mr. Berry.
22 MR. BERRY: The only thing I would add i 23 further to what I reported earlier this morning is that
- 24 I have been in contact with the Staf f, the Staf f l 25 officials, and I have advised them of some of the
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U 1 considerations that we discussed this morning and they 2 are on notice of what the Board is hoping for in their 3 response.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's fine.
5 Okay. Then we can continue with Mr. Martin.
6 I take it, Mr. Martin, you are satisfied that, 7 regardless of what you testified to here, you have your 8 position at the end of your vacation.
9 THE WITNESS: Yes. Thank you.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All right.
(
11 BY MR. GUILD:
12 Q Mr. Martin, I want to show you a series of documents O 13 that relate over a course of time to various 14 disciplinary measures that have been taken with regard 15 to you.
16 Let me show you first what appears to be an 17 employee warning, dated January 7, 1982, which I would 18 ask be marked as Intervenors' Exhibit 72 for 19 identification, please.
20 (The document was thereupon marked 21 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 72 for 22 identification as of July 29, 1986.)
23 BY MR. GUILD:
24 Q Mr. Martin, do you recall seeing this document at about
('T 25 the time it was dated, January 7, 1982?
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1 A Yes.
2 O That appears to be your. signature under the line that 3 reads " Acknowledgement" at the bottom?
4 A Yes.
5 0 Can you describe the circumstances that led to your 6 management presenting you with this warning?
7 A Yes.
8 It was a time when we were having some office 9 conflicts within the office; that some of the employees 10 were really just doing things that were offensive to 11 myself and a few other people.
12 I had taken that to the management and I took some 13 action on my own, which offended some other people; and 14 one day after lunch this particular person, F. Rolan, 15 came in after lunch and he was bringing a friend with 16 him on a tour of the plant, He just hired in.
! 17 When he came in, he was just really very vulgar, 18 was cussing me very slanderously; and, you know, I asked i 19 him to go blow his hot air somewhers else; and he just 20 started cussing me more.
21 So after he left, I decided that I wasn't going to 22 be able to put up with this type of behavior from people
! 23 that I worked with.
- 24 So I waited a minute and I started walking back l
25 into the office to talk to the manager and --
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2 The manager meaning Mr. DeWald?
3 A Mr. Bob Brown.
4 Q Mr. Brown at the time. Excuse me.
5 A Yes.
6 As I was walking into the main area of the plant 7 where a lot of people are, I had to walk around Frank 8 Rolan and this friend of his.
9 And when I did, I kind of brushed up against him; 10 and he said, " Watch it, you," this, that and the other; 11 and at that point I punched him out.
12 O You are speaking of Franco Rolan, are you not --
O 13 A Yes.
14 Q -- the QC Inspector?
15 A Yes.
16 Q The son of Mr. Rolan, the Project Construction Manager?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Now, what action, if any, was taken as a result of that 19 encounter with Mr. Rolan?
20 A We were both brought into the office and told that if 21 anything like this happens again, we will be terminated.
22 Q Who told you that?
23 A Bob Brown.
24 Q Mr. Brown administered the warning that has been 25 identified as Intervenors' Exhibit 72?
}
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1 A Yes. l 2 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I ask that 3 Intervenors' Exhibit 72 be received in evidence.
4 MR. GALLO: Is this, your Honor, part of the 5 same relevance showing that counsel made the last time 6 we got into this question? Is my point clear?
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild.
8 MR. GUILD: I guess it is, Mr. Chairman.
I 9 It's been a week-and-a-half, so unless Mr. Gallo 10 would like a detailed Bill of Particulars or the Chair 11 would require one, I will, just to expedite, say yes, it 12 is. ,
(:) 13 MR. GALLO: I have no objection.
14 MR. BERRY: No objection.
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
16 (The document was thereupon received into
- 17 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 72.)
l 18 BY MR. GUILD:
1 19 O Mr. Martin, I am going to show you another document, 20 also an employee warning record. It's dated July 30, 21 1982.
22 I would ask that it be marked as Intervenors' 23 Exhibit 73 for identification.
I 24 (The document was thereupon marked 25 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 73 for
)
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l 1 identification as of July 29, 1986.)
2 BY MR. GUILD:
3 Q Does that, again, appear to be your signature in the 4 employee's signature at the bottom? ;
5 A Yes, it is.
6 Q And who was the Supervisor that administered this 7 warning?
8 A Mike Kast.
9 Q Was Mr. Kast supervising welding inspection at the time?
10 A Yes, he was.
11 Q What were the circumstances of your receiving this 12 warning from Mr. Kast in July of 1982?
O 13 A Shortly after lunch I had a couple of dishes I had to 14 wash and I washed them off after lunch, took me over my 15 lunch period about ten minutes -- five to ten minutes.
16 Q Beyond your normal lunch period?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Who determined that you had carried over past your 19 normal lunch period?
20 A Bill Gardner, who at the time was the Regional Manager, l
- 21 was down that day and --
22 Q Comstock Regional Manager?
I 23 A Yes.
l 24 Q Okay.
i
{} 25 A And during the day he was there, he was observing Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9164 1 certain practices and trying to crack down on some 2 things that were going on.
3 Q All right. Did Mr. Gardner observe you?
4 A Yes, he did.
5 Q Did he bring the matter to your attention directly?
6 A No, he did not.
7 Q How did you learn that you had been observed taking 8 longer than the allotted time for lunch?
9 A When they wrote us up.
10 They brought all the individuals that had 11 violations that day into the office and they explained 12 why; and Mike Kast said -- admitted that he didn't O 13 particularly care for the way they were doing it, but it 14 was just something that they felt that they had to do to 15 crack down on some of the abusiveness of duties, 16 whatever, due to the complaints that Comstock 17 construction was making about our office.
18 Q About the QC office?
I j 19 A Yes.
l 20 0 I gather from your last answer there were others aside l
21 from yourself involved this particular day with 22 warnings?
23 A Yes.
24 Q How many others aside from you, Mr. Martin?
25 A Four or five.
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1 Q Were they the same offense or other offenses?
2 A One person was written up for making coffee during
-3 working hours.
4 Another person, I believe, was observed talking 5 socially, social-type visit during working hours.
6 And I can't be for sure for any others.
7 Q Does your signature on the warning indicate that you 8 acknowledged the infraction?
9 A Yes. I couldn't deny it.
10 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I ask that 11 Intervenors' 73 be received in evidence.
, 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I am not sure that any of 13 these support what you claim they support, Mr. Guild; 14 and so I think they are of marginal relevance.
15 But, nevertheless, you are entitled to make your 16 argument on brief.
17 I take it, Mr. Gallo, you are not going to object?
18 MR. GALLO: No, given the state of the 19 record, I will not object.
20 MR. BERRY: No objection.
l 21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
22 (The document was thereupon received into l 23 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 73.)
24 MR. GUILD: I would just ask the Chairman to l
l 25 maintain an open mind on the question.
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1 BY MR. GUILD:
2 Q I will show you, Mr. Martin, a third employee warning 3 record, this one dated October 6,1983, which I would 4 ask be marked as Intervenors' Exhibit 74 for 5 identification.
6 (The document was thereupon marked 7 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 74 for 8 identification as of July 29,-1986.)
9 BY MR. GUILD:
10 Q The copy may not be the best, _ Mr. Martin, but appears to 11 bear your signature -- I take it back. Excuse me.
12 Do you know whose signature is listed on the O 13 witness to warning?
14 A Yes. That's Rick Saklak.
15 Q Mr. Saklak, all right.
16 And, indeed, I misspoke. The bottom indicates, 17 " Employee refused to sign."
18 Is that Mr. DeWald's signature under the 19 Supe rvisor?
20 A Yes, it is.
21 Q All right. What were the circumstances of the October 22 6, 1983, warning?
23 A This was associated with the precopied check marks that 24 were found that I had filled out, the paper work,
{} 25 whatever.
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1 Q All right. Now, how did you learn the infraction 2 identified with the precopied check marks had been 3 identified?
4 A Pardon me?
5 Q Okay. How was it brought to your attention by 6 management or otherwise that they had identified the 7 fact that you had precopied checklists?
8 A Well, it came through a CECO audit. CECO auditors found 9 the checklist, at which time Comstock management was 10 notified of the problem.
11 I guess at first it was a big panic, whatever;.but 12 af ter numerous meetings, I guess, it was decided on what
" O 13 was going to be done about it.
14 They at that time wrote me up for carelessness.
15 Q How did you first hear about it, the fact that this 16 practice had been identified, Mr. Martin?
17 A During the audit CECO requested to ask me a few 18 questions about the precopied check marks.
19 Q They asked you if they could ask some questions or they 20 asked someone else?
21 A They asked Comstock management if they could ask me, and 22 then they asked me about what the deal was with the 23 check marks.
24 Q When did your management first communicate to you that 25 they considered that practice an infraction of a policy Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 or a procedure or some other work rule?
7 2 A After the audit.
3 Q All.right.
, 4 A If.that's general -- I mean specific enough.
5 Q How about when did you first learn that you were going 6 to be written up for it, that it was to be treated as an 7 employee infraction?
8 A At the time they called me in to write me up.
4 9 Q Had they previously stated to you that it was going to 10 be treated as an infraction?
11 A No.
12 Q All right. So you are called in and what happened?
) 13 A Irv just said he had to write me up; and-I asked him 14 what for.
15 He said for negligence, carelessness; and I said, 16 "I don't understand."
17 He said, "Well, you should know what you-have 18 done"; and I said, "No, I don't know what I have done."
, 19 It was kind of a back-and-forth thing for a while.
l l 20 He asked me to sign. He said he was going to write me l
21~ up regardless.
22 I said, "Well, that's fine. I am not going to sign
. 23 it"; and that was about the end of it.
t 24 Q I am looking at the document now, Mr. Martin, and under 25 the remarks section it states in full, "This warning is ;
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O 1 for carelessness in completing documentation and 2 procedural requirements."
3 Did Mr. DeWald state what documentation the warning 4 referred to? ;
5 A Just the precopied check marks was, basically, it.
6 They had also found out --
7 0 Well, let me interrupt you.
8 A Okay.
9 Q Did Mr. DeWald say that or was that your understanding 10 from the context at the time?
11 A (No response.)
l 12 Q You asked what it was about, and did he specify the 13 documentation referred to in the warning was the 14 precopied check marks?
15 A That was understood.
16 Q All right.
17 A Because we had talked previously about the problem and I 18 we were both aware of the scope of the problem and what 19 he was writing me up for was understood by both parties.
20 0 Well, it was understood except you asked the question, 21 "What is this about," in effect, did you not?
22 A Yes; but not pertaining to the fact that there were i
23 precopied check marks and checklists. That was 24 understood.
r% 25 The fact of how that act related to my carelessness l
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l l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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'l is what I was pertaining to.
2 Q Yes, yes. Well, the second reference is then to 3 procedural requirements, again, carelessness in 4 completing documentation and procedural requirements.
5 Did Mr. DeWald state to you at that time what 6 procedural requirements he had reference to in this 7 warning?
8 A I believe simply the fact that it wan going to be a 9 requirement that each person be issued procedures and 10 that they carry them in the field and that the 11 documentation be completed in the field at the time of 12 the inspection.
O 13 Q Well, that was your understanding of what would take 14 place after this event; correct?
15 A Yes.
16 Q My question to you is: At the time of the warning did l
l 17 Mr. DeWald state to you wnat particular procedural i
18 requirements he was referring to in the face of the 19 warning?
i 20 A Those I just stated, which, of course, is a --
l 21 Q Did Mr. DeWald say that, that is my question, Mr.
22 Martin, or did you simply understand that?
23 A He explained that I should have done this. I should 24 have had my procedures and I should have been filling l
rT 25 out checklists.
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(1 1 So even though that was not the way I was trained, 2 he was, in my opinion, making it look like that I was, 3 regardless of my training, I was supposed to be 4 responsible for this and, therefore, I was in neglect in 5 doing it; and since CECO found it, it was my fault.
6 0 Well, your previous testimony reflects, of course, that 7 it was, indeed, Mr. DeWald himself that had trained you 8 in your weld inspection practices --
9 A Yes.
10 0 -- and your weld inspection documentation practices?
11 A Yes.
12 Q Was it apparent to you at the time of the warning that
() 13 Mr. DeWald knew that he, indeed, was the person who 14 trained you?
15 A It was not brought up, but I am sure he thought about 16 it.
17 I didn't bring it up because I fully knew that, 18 yes, he had trained me.
19 Q Now, when DeWald said he had to or words to that effect, 20 had to issue the warning, did he give you any indication 21 of why he had to?
22 A No.
23 Q You refused to sign, as you testified.
l 24 What response, if any, did Mr. DeWald or Mr. Saklak i
25 give to your statement that you were not going to sign
{
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1 the warning? l 2 A There was really no response. They just acknowledged I
3 and they didn't press the issue.
4 Q Now, at the time they gave you this warning, Mr. Martin, 5 what, if anything, did you understand was the 6 significance of the warning with regard to your future 7 employment or to any terms or conditions of your
. 8 employment benefits, that sort of thing?
[ 9 What did the warning mean to you?
10 A Well, in that respect, as you stated, I really. had no 11 bad -- I wasn't worried about my job, because I --- I 12 felt that if they fired me, they would be in for a
( 13 bigger -- they would have a lot bigger problems than
! 14 what they were having right at the moment.
15 And I just felt they were writing me up to cover --
16 to try to cover -- up any neglect on their part.
17 Q All right, sir.
- 18 A To try to show that -- to try to put the blame, I guest.
19 on me.
20 Q Did they state to you in any respect that your job was 21 in jeopardy as a consequence of this employee warning, 22 the warning of October 6, 1983, DeWald or Saklak?
23 A I don't believe so, no.
24 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I would ask that 25 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 74 be received in evidence.
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V 1 MR. GALLO: No objection.
2 MR. BERRY: No objection.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Admitted.
4 (The document was thereupon received into 5 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 74.)
6 BY MR. GUILD:
7 Q All right. Mr. Martin, this appears to be a memorandum 8 '2ritten by Mr. DeWald to your file.
9 Do you recall ever seeing this before today?
10 A No, I haven't.
11 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I would ask the 12 document be marked as Intervenors' Exhibit 75 for 13 identification.
14 (The document was thereupon marked 15 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 75 for l 16 identification as of July 29, 1986.)
i 17- MR. GUILD: Thisis 75.
l l
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes.
i 19 BY MR. GUILD:
20 Q Now, indeed, looking at the text of the document, it
- 21 reflects that since October 25, 1983, R. Martin has been 1
22 decertified due to practices of photocopying inspection 23 checklists.
24 In fact, your certification was suspended as of 25 that date, was it not?
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l 9174 1 A I can't -- whatever, yeah.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Do you know that or do you 3 just know that from reading the document?
4 THE WITNESS: I just know it from reading 5 here.
6 (Indicating.)
7 BY MR. GUILD:
8 Q Do you recall in October of 1983 that you had your 9 certifications pulled for the photocopying practice?
10 A Yes. If you want to use that term, yes.
11 Q Well, that is what I am focusing on, indeed, Mr. Martin.
- 12 What was your understanding as of October of 1983 13 of the status of your certification in the welding area?
14 A I was told my certs were pulled; but since they 15 reinstated me without training, it was -- everything was
' 16 found to be acceptable.
17 I am not sure whether they were pulled or not.
18 Q All right, sir. So the actual status of your certs from 19 the period between October of 1983 and the later date i
20 when you were reinstated is unclear to you; is that 21 right?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Now, it references a 2-29-84 warning for excessive j 24 absenteeism.
25 Do you see that reference in the body of the first Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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i 1 paragraph?
2 A Yes, I do.
3 Q Do you recall receiving such a warning, Mr. Martin?
4 A 1 s. It was at the beginning of the year. I had used 5 up five or six sick days.
6 I had had strep throat and I was on my back for 7 about three days and there were some other 8 circumstances. It just happened that I had to use quite 9 a few up in that period of time.
10 And I -- I knew I was given a verbal warning; but I 11 was not aware that anything was written down.
12 Q All right, sir. Well, did you make your management O 13 aware of the circumstances of your absence during that 14 time?
15 A Yes, they were aware.
16 Q This is the first documentation you had seen of a 17 warning on that subject, this letter?
18 A Yes, it is.
19 Q Now, the last sentence of the first paragraph reads, "R.
20 Martin, when given a warning or is informed of being in 21 the wrong, gets very offensive and demonstrates a 22 negative abusive attitude trying to push the blame on 23 other people."
24 Did Mr. DeWald ever bring to your attention, in 25 substance, that criticism, Mr. Martin?
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1 A No, I can't recall any time that we ever sat down and 2 talked about that.
3 0 In fact, as the memo appears to indicate, did Mr. DeWald 4 or others give you a deadline to complete your training 5 and certification in CEA's?
6 A Yes, I was given a deadline.
7 Q Do you recall whether the deadline is as stated in this 8 memo, March 14, 1984?
9 A Yes; but that date -- yes, I recall the date.
10 Q I am sorry. I didn't mean to cut you off. You began to 11 answer.
12 Was that, in fact, the date deadline that was set O 13 for you for getting your CEA certification?
14 A This was one of them, let's put it that way.
15 0 Was it later extended to a later date?
16 A Well, it was -- I was to be scheduled for training; and 17 over a period from February to April I would be given a 18 deadline to train in this and I would begin scheduling 19 for that and I would begin training.
20 And somehow the scheduling always got off track and 21 I ended up with many other responsibilities. Then I 22 would get called into the office and they would get 23 after me, chew me out.
24 I think I got another written warning on this -- I 25 don't know -- that I was to have my certification done; Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 and this went on for about three months, from February 2 to March.
3 Q The subject at the top of the page refers to incident 4 report concerning J. Hii and M. Klatchko.
5 Do you know what that references to?
6 A I have no idea.
7 Q The document, the memo, from Mr. DeWald, 3-6-84, refers 8 to a reinstatement of your configuration welding certs 9 2-13-84, 10 Is that the day that, whatever they did, they gave 11 you back your certs?
12 A Yes, it is.
O 13 MR. GUILD: All right, sir.
14 Mr. Chairman, I have marked this as Intervenors' i
15 Exhibit No. 75 and I would ask that it be received in 16 evidence.
17 MR. GALLO: No objection.
l 18 MR. BERRY: No objection, i
I 19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
20 (The document was thereupon received into l
[
21 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 75.)
l 22 BY MR. GUILD:
23 Q I am showing you, Mr. Martin, a memo that I will have 24 marked as Intervenors' Exhibit 76 for identification.
25 It's a Read-and-Reply Memo. It's poor copying and I l )
i l
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.O-1 and this went on for about three months, from February 2- to March.
3~ Q The subject at the top of the page refers to incident-4 report concerning J. Hii and M. Klatchko.
- 5 Do you know what that references to?
6 A I have no idea.
7 Q The document, the memo, from Mr. DeWald, 3-6-84, refers
- 8 to a reinstatement of your configuration welding certs 9 2-13-84.
j 10 Is that the day that, whatever they did, they gave i 11 you back your certs?
12 A Yes, it is.
( 13 MR. GUILD: All right, sir.
14 Mr. Chairman, I have marked this as Intervenors' 15 Exhibit No. 75 and I would ask that it be received in 16 evidence.
l 17 MR. GALLO: No objection.
! 18 MR. BERRY: No objection.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
4 l 20 (The document was thereupon received into l 21 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 75.)
22 BY MR. GUILD:
l 23 Q I am showing you, Mr. Martin, a memo that I will have i
24 marked as Intervenors' Exhibit 76 for identification.
25 It's a Read-and-Reply Memo. It's poor copying and I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 apologize.
2 It bears the date, apparently, 12-4-84.
Subject:
3 work performance. Apparently, it was highlighted in its 4 original and it's a little difficult to read.
5 But I believe it's addressed to you and it appears 6 to be from Mr. Seese.
7 A Yes, that is correct.
8 (The document was thereupon marked 9 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 76 for 10 identification as of July 29, 1986.)
11 BY MR. GUILD:
_ 12 Q Do you recall getting such a memo from Mr. Seese?
13 A Yes, I do.
14 Q Would you describe the circumstances that led to Mr.
15 Seese sending you this memo on the subject of your, work 16 pe rf ormance?
17 A They would ask me to do this and that. Every day they 18 would ask me to do something, this and that; and it just l 19 got to be such a pain.
20 I began to be negligent in some of my duties, so I 21 was -- since they wouldn't let me go out in the field l 22 and inspect, it seemed like every odd job they had to l 23 give someone, they just pushed off on me.
L 24 I had to do computer statusing. They put me in 25 charge of rework logs and they told me to put stuff away
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1 for them; and I just forgot to do it one day, I guess.
2 Q All right. You referred earlier, Mr. Martin, in your 3 initial testimony to a period or a point in time where, 4 I think you stated, Mr. Seese's behavior toward you 5 began to change. That's not exactly your testimony, I 6 know, but my paraphrase.
7 Do you recall testimony of that effect?
8 A Yes, I do.
9 Q Did this December 4th performance memo occur af ter or 10 before that point that you referred to when Seese's 11 attitude toward you changed?
1 12 A It was after.
O 13 0 Can you give me a date in time when that attitude change 14 took place?
15 A Yes, I can.
16 I -- the last time we met, I presented a letter
( 17 that I had written up personally myself describing an 18 incident between me and Larry Seese in which he said
- 19 that he was going to make it hard on me; and at that I
- 20 point it was -- the situation was really getting sticky, l
21 I guess; and --
l 22 Q Was that in the stack of materials including your 23 notebooks?
24 A Yes, it was.
25 MR. GUILD: Let me see if we can take a Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 moment and put our hands on what you are referring to. !
l 2 THE WITNESS: And, by the way, when I wrote l 3 that up, I put the wrong date on that. I dated it, I 4 believe, November 30th; but the date was October 30th.
l 5 I was so upset that I put the wrong date there. i 6 MR. GUILD: Okay.
7 THE WITNESS: I have copies which I 8 corrected, but the original I didn't bother correcting.
9 I made about three or four copies.
10 BY MR. GUILD:
11 0 This is a portion of the documents that the Applicant 12 has copied from your originals, Mr. Martin, and I am O 13 seeing a stack that they put a heading on called, 14 " Miscellaneous material."
15 I saw one that said ICR/NCR.
16 A It's not in that.
17 0 All right. We have exhausted that stack.
18 A If you would look into my original stuff, it would be in 19 there.
20 Q We probably could find it easier there, okay.
21 Where is it?
22 A Right there. That's it.
23 (Indicating.)
24 Q Mr. Martin, I am showing you the original documents that 25 you brought in the first day of your testimony; and if Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 you can lay hands on that memo that you are referring 2 to, please do so.
3 A (Indicating.)
4 0 Did you find it?
5 A Yes, sir, I did.
6 0 Okay.
7 A And I believe I made a mess of everything.
8 Q All right, It 's a two-page document.
9 Is this it, this one, or is it this one?
10 (Indicating.)
11 A Thip one. ,
- 12 (Indicatino.)
13 0 It appears to he in a package, 'Miscelle.neous material," .
14 provided by Applicant, "QC Inspector Martin," prior to 15 the end of the hearings, et catera.
16 All right. Mr. Martin, ib that --
17 A Yes, that's it.
18 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairraan, let me just exhibit 19 it to the parties.
20 MR. GALLQ: I have gut it.
l 21 MR. BERSY: All tj g.ht.
i 22 MR. GUILD: 1 am not sure whether th6 Board l
23 got a copy of this document.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No, ve did not.
I
{} 25 I believe that Matt has copics for us. That 's what l
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1 he offered and we didn't take it until it was --
2 JUDGE COLE: I have got the one set.
3 MR. MILLER: Do you want to wait until the 4 Board members have a copy?
5 MR. GUILD: I am going to mark it.
6' JUDGE COLE: I don't know if it's in here or 7 not.
8 MR. GUILD: Judge, it's in a stack that says, 9 " Documents provided" --
10 JUDGE COLE: " Miscellaneous material"?
11 MR. GUILD: After, not before, after. He
_s 12 brought it in after.
O 13 He found it in his brief case at the end of this.
14 JUDGE CCLE: Is this it?
15 (Indicating.)
16 MR. GUILD: Yes. You have got it.
17 BY MR. GUILD:
18 Q Mr. Martin, do you have your original of that document?
i 19 Why don't you dig it out and you can follow along 20 again on that one, if you would, please, sir?
7.1 Mr. Chairman, I would ask that this be marked for 22 identification as Intervenors' Exhibit 77.
23 I am marking my copy and making it available to the 24 Ccurt Heporter for a tag.
25 (The dccum.ent was thereupon marked Sonnt6g Reporting Service, Ltd.
% m va, 11tihUts- 60174 - -
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9183 O
1 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 77 for 2 identification as of July 29, 1986.)
3 BY MR. GUILD:
4 Q Now, Mr. Martin, you were beginning and you made a 5 reference to having written a memorandum referring to 6 the incident that I was examining you about, Mr. Seese's 7 attitude toward you.
8 Is that right, do you recall?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Now, you were beginning to or you made reference to this 11 document that you now have bef ore you?
12 A Yes.
13 0 would you continue your explanation, please?
14 A Well, it was -- this incident occurred directly after I 15 had made an examination of the situation with our rework 16 program, in which there were -- in which there were 17 numerous inspections past due; and I think he felt that 18 this was a personal attack, whatever.
l 19 So he took these findings and went to a meeting; 20 and when he came back, he requested that I work on a l
21 list spelling out each discipline, welding, 22 configuration, of all the delinquent inspections and 23 have that list to him as soon as possible.
24 I was at the moment working on another project and 25 I didn't divert from that project until after lunch and Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 I couldn't complete that project that.
2 That evening Seese went to a meeting or something, 3 and I worked overtime on it on my own time; but the next 4 morning I still did not have it ready, at which time he 5 got very upset.
6 I explained to him that at the time I had -- my
! 7 wife was in the hospital. I came in late the next day, 8 that's it, and my wife was in the hospital, I had taken 9 my kids to a baby-sitter.
10 And it was just -- he was very upset that I hadn't 11 got the list done. I said, "Look, you know, I can only 12 do so much."
O 13 He began to tell me how comstock had been easy on 14 me and that they had been -- they have done me a lot of 15 favors and this and that; and at that time I told him I 16 didn't want to hear that garbage.
17 Then he said, "Well, we can make it hard on you,"
18 so at that point he made it hard.
19 Q Now, you told me that you had misdated this.
20 This is your memorandum, this Exhibit 77?
21 A Yes.
22 Q What was the correct date on which you prepared this 23 memorandum or the events took place on which you --
24 A 11-30-84. I was a month off. I put the wrong month on
(} 25 there.
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1 Q That's on the second page where you have 10-30-84 on the 2 document?
3 A Yes, it is.
4 Q It was the next month?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Now, this document memorialized or records ~what 7 transpired the previous day; is that correct? ,
8 A Well, this incident took place first thing in the 6 9 morning, at which time I had not finished my report for 10 Mr. Seese.
11 After he did that, I just -- I wrote everything 12 down.
O 13 0 So you recorded what happened that day --
14 A Yes.
15 0 -- on this document?
16 A Yes, immediately after the incident.
17 0 And did you show this document to anybody thereafter?
18 A Yes, yes, I did.
I 19 0 To whom?
20 A I gave a copy to Larry Bossong.
21 Q Do you know of anything that happened, if any action was 22 taken on the basis of your passing on a copy of this 23 document?
24 A I don't, no.
/ 25 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I would move Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Intervenors' Exhibits 76 and 77 in evidence and I will 2 supply additional copies to the Board and parties of 77.
3 MR. GALLO: May I conduct some voir dire on 4 777 5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Certainly.
6 By the way, I take it there is no objection to 76?
7 MR. GALLO: No objection.
8 MR. BERRY: None, your Honor.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: So we will admit 76.
10 (The document was thereupon received into 11 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 76.)
12 VOIR DIRE O 13 BY MR. GALLO 14 Q Mr. Martin, I believe you corrected the dates on the 15 second page of what has been marked as Exhibit 77 to 16 indicate that it was November 30, 1984, in both places; 17 is that correct?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Now, is that the day you signed this writing?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Now, what about the date on the first page; is that a 22 correct date or is that incorrect?
23 If you notice, it starts out, "On 10-29-84, some i 4
24 time at mid morning."
25 Is the reference to 10-29-84 correct?
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1 A Yes. All the references are incorrect.
2 O I am sorry. Yes, they are all incorrect?
3 A Yes, they are. They were all November.
4 Q So the first page should be corrected as well; is that 5 it?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 Q To November?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And the incident you referred to -- and that would be 10 in, I guess, two locations; is that correct?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And the!i ncident you referred to in this first page that o' 13 is with Mr. Seese did occur on November 29, 1984; is 14 that correct?
15 A Yes.
16 Q As Ilunderstand your testimony, you drafted this at home 17 on your own time?
18 A No. I wrote this immediately after the incident.
19 Q Oh, you wrote this at work immediately after the 20 incident?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q Who did you intend as the addressee?
23 A Well, I had ideas on giving it to the NRC; but after I 24 had cooled down, I figured I would just hang onto it and 25 just keep it for my personal reference.
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1 Q Except that you did give a copy to Mr. Holly?
2 A Mr. Bossong.
3 Q I am sorry. Mr. Bossong?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q Did you give Mr. Bossong a copy at or about November 30, 6 1984?
7 A Yes. The same day I wrote it, I gave him a copy.
8 Q So aside from a copy that Mr. Bossong may have, you just 9 simply kept it in your personal file?
10 A Yes.
11 MR. GALLO: I have no objection.
12 MR. BERRY: No objection.
O 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
14 (The document was thereupon received into 15 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 77.)
16 BY MR. GUILD:
17 Q Mr. Martin, looking at the second paragraph on the 18 second page of the document you refer to the subject of 19 reworks and some problem with the procedure for reworks.
20 Does that refer to the subject on which you and Mr.
21 Seese had the contact that led to him getting upset with 22 you?
23 A No. There were -- at this particular time there was 24 kind of a problem with our base metal inspections.
25 When we would delete a hanger --
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1 Q Let me interrupt you now.
2 What I want to ask you about, having gotten your 3 negative answer, is:
4 What was the subject of the complaint or concern 5 that you had to Seese that prompted him getting angry 6 with you?
7 A (No response.)
8 Q Am I being confusing with my question. I apologize.
9 A I didn't have a complaint. I just hadn't finished with 10 his report.
11 Q Let me stop you.
12 You told me that Seese gave you this work to do, O 13 you had a project ongoing and he told you to do this 14 list of reworks; correct?
15 He wanted you to compile a list?
16 A Yes, yes.
17 Q All right. Now, you prefaced that testimony a moment
'8 ago by saying that you had brought to Mr. Seese's 19 attention some -- it's my word, not yours -- concern, 20 complaint, observations on your part about problems in a.
l 21 program that made him angry.
l l 22 Do you recall that testimony, in substance?
l 23 A Yes.
24 Q Now, what was the subject of concerns or complaints or 25 problems that you brought to Seese's attention that made
(~/}
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1 him angry?
2 A Well, the -- we have a 30-day period where our 3 inspections should be done according to some audit 4 finding; and numerous inspections had gone beyond this 5 point.
6 I just merely brought it to his attention that we 7 had numerous inspections that were outstanding.
8 Q You had a backlog?
9 A Yes.
10 Q You had a backlog as of approximately November 30, 19847 11 A Yes.
7, 12 Q You brought that to Seese's attention?
13 A Yes.
14 Q What was his reaction when you told him that?
15 A At the time I shared this with him, he just said, "Okay.-
16 We will take care of it."
17 Q He went to a meeting you testified earlier?
18 A Uh-huh.
19 0 Then he came back and was angry with you?
20 A Well, I guess that's maybe more speculation than -- I 21 just know that he wanted this list done immediately and 22 that's usually not his manner as a -- to be demanding.
23 0 What is the basis, if anything, Mr. Martin, then, from 24 your understanding, having raised these problems with 25 him about the backlog, that it was that contact with him Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 that prompted him to get angry with you?
2 A Well, he just changed his attitude; and especially the 3 next day, even after I told him I worked overtime on.it 4 without authorization trying to complete, you know, as 5 to assist him, he showed no appreciation for that and 6 was centering on the fact that I had come in late and 7 that I had not finished his report and that I was very 8 negligent.
9 0 What. relationship is there, if any, Mr. Martin, between 10 the rework list that he was asking you to do and the 11 backlog condition that you had identified to him?
12 A Well, we have a file cabinet where reworks are completed 13 and then they are issued to QC for inspection.
14 I merely took the -- recorded the dates on the 15 reworks, visually looked at them and recorded all the 16 dates that were past 30 days due in the inspections that 17 were due.
18 I just took a number and I gave Larry Seese a 19 number, and then he came back and asked for a list 20 specifying each one in a discipline, and at that time I 21 had to physically go through each rework and review each 22 one.
23 We probably had 2,000 up in QC at that time.
24 Q So you were identifying the state of backlog on rework 25 inspections; is that correct?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q And those instances where the inspection of a reworked 3 item was in excess of 30 days past due?
4 A Yes.
5 Q All right, sir.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me. 'You started to 7 say something about a base metal problem.
8 Does that figure in here some way? I think we 9 oughtn't to cut you off.
10 THE WITNESS: Yes. We had a concern, 11 especially with reworks, since so many were written to 12 delete a hanger; and at the point that we delete a O 13 hanger, they go out in the field and cut it down.
14 Many some of the inspectors found when they cut the ,
15 hangers down, they were cutting into the structural 16 steel; and we had numerous reworks that did not have an 17 inspector verifying the fact that, you know, there was 18 no damaged base metal af ter the hanger was removed.
19 I did not realize it, but CECO was already looking 20 into it. It was just an issue that I had brought up at
. 21 this point myself.
22 BY MR. GUILL:
23 0 Who did you bring it up to, Mr. Martin?
24 A Mr. Seese.
25 Q In the same conversation, at the same time that you Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
ueneva, 1111nois oulae (312) 232-0262
9193 1 brought up the problem with the backlog?
2 A Yes, the same time period.-
3 Q I see. Now, you made a reference in your earlier answer 4 to a 30-day time period from installation to 5 installation inspection being the product of an audit 6 finding.
7 Do you recall that testimony?
8 A Yes.
9 Q What I am interested in is, if you have any. knowledge, 2
10 what is the genesis, the origin, of that 30-day time 11 period?
12 A It was due to a substantial backlog that Comstock O 13 carried.
14 So they set up a program where we collected enough 15 manpower to keep up with current work and then we 16 diverted a portion of our manpower separate from the 17 current work force to address the backlog situation.
18 Q I see. I am not being clear, perhaps.
19 Was it your understanding that the 30-day time i l 20 period as a standard to apply to measure the degree of l 21 backlog was derived from an audit finding? i l
22 A I believe so. I am not really quite sure exactly how I 23 that came about. ;
l 24 Q Was there always a 30-day measure for backlog or was 25 that something that came at a point in time?
}
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1 A I believe it was something that came at a point in time.
2 Q And it was your understanding that it was somehow 3 connected to an audited finding?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Was it a CECO or' Comstock audit finding, do you know?
6 A I don't know.
7 MR. GALLO: Objection.
8 The witness stated previously he was not sure in 9 the answer to the question.
10 MR. GUILD: He may not be certain, but there 11 is no requirement in the law of evidence for 100 percent 12 ce rtain ty.
O 13 I believe the record will reflect that the witness 14 has reflected some caution about the accuracy of his 15 answer.
16 MR. GALLO: The caution was he didn't really 17 know, so he is not competent to answer questions further 18 on that subject.
( 19 MR. GUILD: I suggest counsel has free reign f
20 on Cross Examination.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I don't know what your 22 objection is, Mr. Gallo.
23 If it's to the fact that he is leading the witness, 24 I think he is giving him ample room to say what he does
{} 25 and doesn't know about and I don't think that he is Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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L) 1 trying to get any particular answer from him.
2 MR. GALLO: What he is doing is he got an 3 answer from the witness he didn't like, which was that 4 the witness couldn't really remember whether the 5 derivation of the 30-day inspection period was related 6 to an audit or not.
7 Then he gave him a second chance and by leading him 8 got him to agree that there was.
9 Now, which is it? I think we ought to get --
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, you say he got an 11 answer he didn't like.
12 He got a suggestion before he got that answer that O 13 it had something to do with an audit and then he got an 14 answer saying that he really didn't know.
15 He is trying to probe to see whether he thinks it 16 was with regard to the audit.
17 I don't know that one answer is any more favorable 18 to Mr. Guild's case than the other answer or any other l
, 19 answer.
i
! 20 All he is trying to do is help the witness refresh 21 his recollection on it. What is objectionable about 22 that?
23 MR. GALLO: I will withdraw my objection.
24 BY MR. GUILD:
25 Q Do you have any understanding whether this audit was a Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 CECO audit or a Comstock audit?
2 A No, I do not.
3 Q Do you have any understanding or recollection of when 4 this took place, Mr. Martin?
5 A I am not sure of that, either.
6 Q Year, perhaps?
7 A No, I don't know.
8 Q All right, sir. I believe your previous testimony, Mr.
9 Martin, was after this November, '84, encounter with Mr.
10 Seese his attitude changed and Mr. Seese started making 11 things rough for you or said he could make things rough 12 for you I believe is your testimony.
O 13 I show you a document, that I would like marked as 14 Intervenors' Exhibit 78 for identification, please. It 15 bears a date of 1-5-85.
16 Does that appear to be Mr. Seese signing the read l
17 and rely memo on the top?
18 A Will you address -- I was reading. I am sorry.
19 0 I am sorry. I didn't mean to cut your reading.
20 Is that Mr. Seese's signature on the top of the 21 read and reply?
22 A On the top?
23 0 I mean signing the top portion.
24 A Oh, yes, it is, Larry Seese.
25 (The document was thereupon marked Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9197 !
n.
V I
1 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 78 for 2 identification as of July 29, 1986.).
3 BY MR. GUILD:
4 Q Have you seen this before?
5 A Yes, I believe I have.
6 Q DeWald signs the bottom; correct?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Now, Seese, apparently, is quoting Mr. DeWald back here, 9 at least from the context. "You questioned me as to, 10 quote, why Rick Martin was in the lead room talking to 11 Bossong."
- 12 Were you aware that Mr. Seese had raised such a 13 question?
14 A No.
15 MR. GALLO: Point of clarification: Is the 16 question intended to refer to Mr. Seese or Mr. DeWald?
17 MR. GUILD: I misspoke. Mr. DeWald.
18 BY MR. GUILD:
19 0 Were you aware that Mr. DeWald had raised such a 20 question?
21 A No, I was not.
22 Q Did either Seese or DeWald bring such a concern or l 23 complaint to your attention, you talking to Bossong?
i 24 A I do not recall anything about this incident. I can't.
25 Q All right. When have you seen this memo before, if you Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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V 1 have?'
2 A I believe I was given an evaluation shortly after this 3 and a bunch of memos were brought to my attention at 4 that time.
5 Larry Seese was stating his case of my
~
6 insubordination, and to back up his yearly evaluation,
-7 which was very negative, he had a stack of memos to 8 illustrate his reasoning.
9 Q So this memo, the 1-5-85 memo and this particular 10 complaint, was a part of a collection of documents --
11 A Yes.
12 0 -- that Seese showed you at that time?
f~)'
13 A Yes, uh-huh, yes.
14 Q You don't recall Seese having shown it to you prior to 15 the time when he used it in the evaluation; is that your 16 testimony?
17 A No, I do not. I don't recall.
18 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I would ask that i 19 this document be marked and received as Intervenors' i
! 20 Exhibit 79.
21 JUDGE COLE: 78.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, 78 it is.
l 23 MR. GUILD: Excuse me.
l l 24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I am sorry. You are 25 of fering this' now?
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9199 1 MR. GUILD: Yes, 78,.please.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo.
3 MR. GALLO: No objection.
4 MR. BERRY: No objection.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
6 (The document was thereupon received into-7 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 78.)
8 BY MR. GUILD:
9 Q Mr. Martin, let mow show you a January 29th, memo. It 10 appears to be, again, Mr. Seese writing Mr. DeWald.
11 Do you recall having seen this memo before, Mr.
12 Martin?
O 13 A yes, I have seen this.
14 Q When did you see it first?
15 A It was on the day of this incident.
16 Q On the 29th of January,19857 17 A Yes.
18 Q And how did Mr. Seese or how did -- how was this memo 19 brought to your attention on that day?
20 A I was given a copy.
21 Q By whom?
22 A Mr. Seese.
23 Q Okay. It relates observations that Seese dates at 10:00 I
24 A. M.
25 Did Mr. Seese have any contact with you at that Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9200 1 time?
2 A Yes.
3 Q What happened?
4 A .I was looking at -- a person that was working close to 5 me had a question about a college book that I had and he 6 just wanted to look at it, and so we were looking at it 7 and Mr. Seese walked up and caught us looking at it.
8 At that time he told me to put it down and start 9 with my work.
10 Q Mr. Seese says, "I stood on the other' side of the" -- it 11 looks like, " partition for about one minute so that I 12 could be sure of what they were doing."
O 13 Was Mr. Seese kind of observing you from behind the 14 partition there?
15 A I guess he was.
16 Q You acknowledge that you were reading a college book on 17 company time, Mr. Martin?
18 A Yes, I do.
19 Q I take it Mr. Seese chewed you out at the time or
. 20 brought that infraction to your attention?
21 A He merely just said -- yes, he just said, "Put it down 22 and get to work."
23 0 I didn't mean to say chewed. He did chew you out at the 24 time or he just --
25 A No, he did not.
4 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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l 9201 1 Q He just told you you should not be doing that, in 2 effect?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Later that day he gave you this memo?
5 A Yes.
6 Q He says in the memo, "And went back later to verify with 7 Rick that he was wrong."
8 Did Seese come back at a later point and get you to 9 acknowledge that you were in error?
10 A (No response.)
11 Q Do you see that last sentence?
12 A I believe there was an argument, where he stated he was O 13 standing there one minute and I was saying that he just 14 walked up.
15 Q Did it have to do with how much time you engaged in this 16 improper activity?
17 A Yes, yes.
18 0 And you disputed the one minute.
19 Did you take the position that it was a shorter 20 time than that, one minute?
21 A Yes.
22 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I ask that this 23 document be marked as Intervenors' Exhibit 79 and 24 received into evidence.
25 (The document was thereupon marked Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9202 O.
1- Intervenors' Exhibit No. 79 for
- 2 identification as of July 29, 1986.')
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
4 (The document was thereupon received into.
5 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 79.)
6 MR. GUILD: If I could have a moment, please.-
7 BY MR. GUILD:
8 Q Mr. Martin, when did the evaluation take place that you' 9 had reference to a moment ago, that followed, at least, 10 Intervenors' 78, the January 5th memo?
11- A Oh, somewhere in January, January.
12 I can't' pinpoint a date for you; but --
0 13 Q Do you recall whether or not this January 29th incident 14 was brought to your attention by Mr. Seese as part of 15 his evidence supporting the evaluation, the reading of a- -
16 textbook?
17 A I -- I believe it was; but I -- I am sure there is a 18 copy of that evaluation in here.
19 Q In the documents you made available to the parties?
20 A Yes, I believe so.
21 Q Will you take a moment and look for that?
22 MR. MILLER: Intervenors' Exhibit 21 in 23 evidence, I believe.
24 MR. GUILD: All right, 21.
25 I think we may have it, Mr. Martin. Wait a second.
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9203 I) 1 THE WITNESS: Okay. j 2 BY MR. GUILD:
3 Q Mr. Martin, I am going to show you Intervenors' Exhibit 4 21, previously received in evidence; and it seems to be 5 signed by Mr. Seese and to be dated January 30, 1985.
6 Is that the evaluation of which you are speaking?
7 A Yes.
8 Oh, wait a minute.
9 Yes, this is the one.
10 (Indicating.)
11 Q All right. Thank you.
12 MR. GALLO: Are the attachments part of the O 13 record?
i 14 MR. MILLER: They were not part of the 15 exhibit as introduced.
16 MR. GUILD: No, I never saw any attachment.
17 MR. MILLER: Off the record.
i 18 (There followed a discussion outside the 19 record.)
20 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, there appears to be 21 on the face of Intervenors' Exhibit 21 references to i
22 exhibits. They may include the memos that the witness 23 has referred to as Seese's back-up or evidence.'
24 The form in which I offered 21 did not have any 25 exhibits attached. They may have, indeed, been made Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9204 g)
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1 available in discovery. I just didn't have it in that 2 form when I offered it.
3 I have no objection to the full document being put 4 in evidence if Applicant has the document in its 5 complete form.
6 I don't believe it's necessary, though.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, if all it has attached 8 are exhibits that were just admitted, why don't we just 9 get a listing of which exhibits those are?
10 MR. GUILD: I am sure there are more, Mr.
11 Chairman.
12 It has more than four exhibit letters, A through F 13 or something.
14 MR. GALLO: Yes, A through J.
15 MR. GUILD: It's A through J, so it's a 16 stack.
17 MR. GALLO: I have a complete set here.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Why don't we then --
19 MR. GALLO: Some of them, however, are not 20 very legible, one not at all.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Why don't we then have that 22 marked for identification and retained by Mr. Gallo and 23 then we will have a separate exhibit admitted, unless 24 there is any objection to the documents that are 25 attached.
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9205 1 So why don't we reserve on that? Why don't we just 2 mark that as Intervenors' Exhibit 80 and then we will 3 decide what we want to do with that after they have been 4 duplicated and counsel have a chance to review the 5 doc ument .
6 MR. GUILD: That would be fine, Mr. Chairman.
7 MR. GALLO: I am reluctant to give up my only 8 copy at this time, however.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No. We are only marking 10 your copy.
11 Do you have an objection to putting Intervenor 80
_y 12 on it, I-80?
O 13 MR. GALLO: No. I will erase 21 and put 80 14 on it.
i 15 MR. MILLER: Why don't you let the Reporter 16 do that?
17 (The document was thereupon marked 18 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 80 for 19 identification as of July 29, 1986.)
i 20 MR. GUILD: Mr. Gallo, if I may have a moment 21 with this, I will return it to you.
22 MR. GALLO: Sure. Just disregard the 23 derogatory comments in there about you.
24 MR. GUILD: Counsel's comments.
l I
(} 25 (Laughter.)
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9206 O'
'v 1 MR. GUILD: Off the record.
2 (There was a discussion outside the 3 record.
4 MR. GUILD: Let's proceed, Mr. Martin.
5 BY MR. GUILD:
l 6 Q I am going go show you a 4-8-85, memo from Mr. Seese.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: This is 81.
8 (The document was thereupon marked 9 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 81 for 10 identification as of July 29, 1986.)
11 BY MR. GUILD:
12 Q Have you seen this memo before, Mr. Martin?
O 13 A Yes, I have.
14 0 Did you see it at about the time that it was, 15 apparently, written, April 8, 1985?
16 A Yes, I did.
17 Q Okay. Did Mr. Seese show it to you?
18 A Yes.
19 Q What were the circumstances that led Seese to write this 20 memo, if you know?
- 21 A I was talking with Mr. Nemeth during his working hours.
22 0 Is that an infraction of work rules or policy that you 23 were aware of?
24 A No, it was not.
25 Q Were you talking to Mr. Nemeth on work related matters?
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1 A No.
2 0 . Was it your understanding that it was acceptable to 3 engage in personal conversation?
4 A Well, I merely said, " Good morning, and how are you 5 doing," and that was about the basis of the 6 conversation.
7 0 .Okay. It was your understanding that that was 8 acceptable?
9 A Well --
10 Q Such conversation was consistent with policy as you 11 understood it?
12 A Well, since you mention it -- of course, this is a o 13 one-sided view -- but certain people were allowed to 14 talk as much as they wanted to. Certain people could 15 not talk.
16 I was one of the people that could not do those 17 things.
18 0 All right. And Seese was writing you up in this
, 19 instance for doing those things?
20 A Yes.
i l 21 Q Now, it looks like Mr. Seese is a pretty good 22 timekeeper. He says at 7:52 a.m.
23 Did Mr. Seese observe you talking to Mr. Nemeth?
i 24 A He was standing there the whole time.
25 0 Did he counsel you, upbraid you or criticize you for
}
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1 carrying on this conversation at the time?
2 A He said I shouldn't be bothering Mr. Nemeth.
3 I said, "Okay. I am sorry," and then I left.
4 0 Were you aware that he was documenting this at the time?
5 A No, I was not.
6 Q When did the memo get brought to your attention?
7 A Later that day.
8 Q Did you have any contact with Mr. DeWald on the subject?
9 A No.
10 MR. GUILD: I will move 81 into evidence, Mr.
11 Chairman.
-s 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No objection? *
-] 13 MR. GALLO: No objection.
14 MR. BERRY: No objection.
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
16 (The document was thereupon received into 17 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 81.)
18 MR. GUILD: We are almost to the bottom of 19 the stack here, Mr. Martin.
20 BY MR. GUILD:
21 Q Mr. Martin, this is a group of documents and the top 22 document appears to have the name Mr. Rolan, Frank 23 Rolan, the Project Manager, dated April 10, 1985.
24 (The document was thereupon marked 25 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 82 for Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 00134 (312) 232-0262
9209 (3 -
R.) .
1 identification as of July 29, 1986.)
2 BY MR. GUILD: .
3 0 There are five pages in total in the document. The 4 second to the last page is an employee warning record, 5 dated April 12, 1985.
6 Let me get you to turn to that one if I could, the 7 second to the last page, the warning, please.
8 Do you recall having seen this document before, Mr.
9 Martin?
10 A Yes, I do.
11 Q It appears to be Mr. Seese's signature again; is that
,f-12 correct?
~' Yes, it is.
13 A 14 Q Now, the subject of the warning appears to be that you 15 clocked out three minutes early.
16 Is that the substance of the infraction?
17 A Yes, it is.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Eight minutes?
19 THE WITNESS: Three.
20 BY MR. GUILD:
21 Q Weren't you permitted to clock out at 4:257 22 A Yes.
23 0 So you were observed clocking out at 4:22?
24 A Yes. ,
{} 25 Q Three minutes early?
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1 A Yes.
2 Q Now, you wrote down, apparently, on the last page, 3 that's attachment A -- and thic is a multi-page 4 attachine nt . T only copied one page of it, the page that 5 appeared to have your signature and number on it.
6 There Were other pages of the leg that had other
-7 person's signatures and numbers on th9m but I only 8 copied the one page.
9 Do you see yout name and number there?
10 I appreciate the copy is very poor quality, Mr.
11 Martin; but I an directing your attention to t.hc third 12 line from the bottom.
13 A Yes, I see it.
14' Q Is that you? .
1 15 A Yes.
16 Q Now, it appears under the time out column to eay 4.:30:
17 correct?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Now, just looking up the column, I would gather from 20 looking at this document and from having examined the 21 others that it appears to be not an uncommon practice 22 for people to put down round numbers, 5:30, 4:30, 6:00 23 o'cleck?
24 A Yes.
25 0 Was your observation that people clocked out on the
,/ }
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.h-V 1 l -- hour?
l l
2 A That was the practice to do. We just signed out.
3 The actual time would be 25 after the hour but we 4 would sign out at the -- whatever hour we were scheduled 5 to be working.
6 Q All right. So when you signed out at 4:25 and wrote 7 down 4:30, your understanding was that that was an 8 .
acceptable practice?
9 A Yes.
10 0 Is that true?
11 A Yes.
g3 12 O Now, the warning appears to be for falsification of 13 records.
14 Is that what your understanding was of the 15 substance of the warning that you were being given --
16 A Yes.
17 Q -- falsifying the sign out record, Mr. Martin?
10 A Well, in their eyes I did, their reasoning being that if 19 !
you sign out early, at that point you put down the exact 20 time you are leaving.
21 Q Was it the practice, as you understood it, to put down 22 the exact time that you left?
23 A Well, at this incident here, I was under the impression 24 that I had signed out at 4:25, which is what our clock i
{} 25 said up in the QC office, so I was not aware that I was Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 signing out early.
2 The sign-out sheets are only made available without 3- request at sign-out time, which checklist ~was available, 4 which I took for granted meaning that it was sign-out
-5 time, so I just signed out at 4:30.
6 And I would also like to mention that there were 7 other individuals that signed out before me which did 8 not get identified, which is the reason why I would not 9 sign the warning, because numerous individuals left 10 before me and walked out the gate, which Frank Rolan had 11 seen and knew to be QC; but since he knew me_probably by 12 my face more than a badge, he singled me out.
O 13 Q Did you understand that you vere doing anything improper 14 by signing out as you did on this date?
15 A I didn't feel that I was.
16 Q Did you state that position in substance to Mr. Seese 17 and Mr. DeWald at the time they gave you the warning?
18 A Yes.
19 0 What was their response?
20 A They maintained that I should not be leaving early.
21 Q Did they maintain that it was improper to leave at 4:25 22 when 4:30 was your formal, official quitting time?
l 23 A I don't believe so.
i
! 24 0 Now, looking at the top page of the set of documents, it 25 appea rs to be signed by Mr. Rolan.
l
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l In the first paragraph he makes a reference to a 2 number of LKC employees leaving the jobsite between the 3 hours of 4:10 and 4:25.
4 Do you know whether any action was taken against 5 any individuals who left between 4:10 and 4:22, if, 6 indeed, 4:22 was the time Mr. Rolan calculated you left 7 the site?
8 A I know of no other individuals that got singled out.
9 Q Except yourself?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did you observe Mr. Rolan on this date sort of standing 12 watch at the gate?
13 A Yes, I did.
14 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I ask this document 15 or group of documents be marked for identification and 16 received in evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit 82.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No objection?
18 MR. GALLO: No objection.
19 MR. BERRY: No objection.
. 20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
I 21 (The document was thereupon received into 22 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 82.)
23 BY MR. GUILD:
j 24 Q Now, the second and third pages of the exhibit, Mr.
l
{} 25 Martin, or memorandum from Seese to file shows you I
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v 1 getting a copy on the second page.
2 Did you receive a copy of this document --
3 A' Yes, I did.
4 Q -- at about the time it was written, April of ' 85? !
5 A Yes, uh-huh. ,
+
+ 6 Q Now, the eighth numbered paragraph on the first page 7 recites, "I asked Rick if he had any additional 8 comments. He stated he recently went to the NRC 9 concerning Rick Saklak."
10 Now, do you recall having gone over to visit the 11 NRC on the 29th of March,1985?
~
12 A Yes.
O 13 Q Now, he stated, again -- this is Mr. Seese's memo - "He 14 stated that the NRC misrepresented some of his comments.
15 Rick stated that he complained to the NRC on 3-29-85, 16 that one afternoon approximately 3-1-85 he talked with 17 the NRC and the next morning I moved him into the QC 18 vault."
19 Now, do you recall the circumstances that Mr. Seese 20 is describing there, not the complaint to the NRC but 21 the March 1st incident involving you and Mr. Seese and 22 the vault?
23 A Oh, yeah. I -- I was working in the vault and an NRC 24 Inspector had come up and we began talking.
(~T 25 Q Who was that NRC Inspector?
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9215 fm 1 A Bob Schulz.
2 Q The resident inspector at the time?
3 A Yes.
4 Q All right.
5 A And he asked me a couple of questions, which I answered; 6 and after lunch Mr. Seese informed me that I would be 7 sitting inside the vault area, which is off there and 8 the table which I was supposed to be sitting at is 9 probably about the level of your knees.
10 And I had -- I had complained to the NRC about 11 this, at which point what I didn't-want them to get off 12 track on was that they thought that I was taking care of O 13 field inspections, which I was not involved in, which is 14 their main -- wnich they have a main interest in'.
15 And I wanted them to understand that I had not been 16 doing field inspections, so that they would not make the 17 mistake of thinking that, you know, as a field 18 inspector, an NRC person talked me and then they took me 19 out of the field and put me in a spot that I couldn't be 20 talked to.
21 That was part of the story; but it was not -- I 22 didn't want that point to be misconstrued, because I I 23 felt that would be a much more critical mistake than 24 just simply moving me f rom outside of the vault to the l
{} 25 inside of the vault, which is not a big problem, except l
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1 that it's, you know, kind of dumb, whatever.
2 Q You said a mouthful, Mr. Martin. Let me see if 3 backtrack a little bit.
4 The NRC mistakenly wrote up your complaint to them 5 on the 29th; is that your testimony?
1 6 A Yes, that was one of the things.
7 0 Let me start here and work backwards.
8 Let me show you a document that has been received 9 in evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit 42-A. This document 10 contains names of inspectors that went over to the NRC 11 on the 29th of March.
12 The names have brackets around them on this
' () 13 particular ~ copy, Mr. Martin, and that is because those 14 names have been marked out on the public version of this 15 document to protect the identities of the witnesses.
16 Your name appears on Page 4 -- rather, beginning 17 Page 3 and running over to Page 4.
18 Now, let's look at Page 4 of the document; and 19 there it states, " Martin is constantly being watched by 20 his supervision. As an example, he recently visited the 21 NRC office. The following day he was transferred 22 without reason from field inspections to a job in the 23 records vault."
24 Now, is that the incorrect statement you are 25 referring to?
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l A Yes, it is.
2 Q Did you go over the next day and tell the NRC inspectors 3 that they had made an error there?
4 A Yes, I did.
5 Q Who did you talk to, if you remember?
6 A Mr. McGregor.
7 Q What, if anything, did Mr. McGregor say to you when you 8 brought that error to his attention?
9 A We sat down and made the corrections at that point.
10 Q Okay.
11 A And he wrote in his report the wording which I wished to 12 be used.
7s Q 13 0 That was to correct the substance of your complaint, 14 which was not that you were taken off field inspections 15 but that you were moved from outside the vault to inside 16 the vault --
17 A Yes.
18 0 -- in your judgment, as a result of having talked to Mr.
19 Schulz that day?
20 A Yes.
21 Q How, that mistake is the misrepresentation that Mr.
22 Seese is referring to in his memo down on paragraph 23 numbered 8; correct?
24 A Yes.
25 Q All right, sir. Now, let's go back to the actual Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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"( )
1 incident involving the vault.
2 Now, can you recall what you were talking with Mr. l 3 Schulz about, the NRC Resident Inspector?
4 A Yes. He had some questions on some welding checklists 5 that he asked me about.
6 Q Did you answer his questions?
7 A Yes, I did.
8 0 Where were you situated at the time you and Mr. Schulz 9 had this conversation?
10 A I was in one corner of the room; and when he sat down, 11 he just sat down next to me.
12 Q You were at a table or a desk?
O 13 A It's a -- kind of like a bench. It's all along the 14 wall, just a workbench along the wall you sat at.
15 0 I am trying co understand the physical layout so that I 16 can understand a little better what it meant when you 17 transferred into the vault.
18 Can you describe the layout of this room as it 19 relates to the vault area, please?
20 A Yes. One area of our vault is where the actual files 21 are kept, which is behind a fire door; an then there is 4
22 an inner corral area, which is probably ten feet by 20.
23 There are desks that line the whole inner area there in 24 the inner corral.
. 25 Then there is an outer corral, approximately 20 by l
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1 20, in which there is desks all along the wall -- not 2 desks but they just put up boards against the --
3 (Indicating.)
4 Q Is that the bench that you are referring to?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Okay.
7 A And we just use those for a desk area.
8 Q Where were you when you and Schulz had the conversation?
9 A I was in the outer corral area.
10 0 Along one of these benches along the wall?
11 A Yes.
12 O Okay. Where were you when Mr. Seese moved you?
13 A I was put into the inner corral area.
14 Q Now, what was the basis for your belief that the action 15 by Mr. Seese in moving you to the inner vault area, the 16 inner corral area, was somehow in response or 17 retaliation for having talked to Schulz?
18 A Well, I had been there for some time and --
19 Q Been outside in the outer area?
20 A Yes, in the outer area for some time working with 2: d ocument s .
22 All of a sudden, it just -- he said that he wanted 23 me inside the vault to protect the documentation from 24 somebody stealing it; and it just, you know, sounded 25 kind of phony.
[}
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9220 i h 1 Based on that, plus the fact that they were just 2 watching every move I made. If I stood up and went to 3 the bathroom, there was somebody called up and told them 4 what I was doing.
5 He knew -- usually knew -- how many times I went to 6 the bathroom a day. If I was looking at a piece of 7 paper too long, he would let me know about it.
8 Q You say "he." You mean Mr. Seese?
9 A Yes. So I knew that he knew that I had talked to the 10 NRC and I just -- I believe that --
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: How long after you spoke to 12 Mr. Schulz did this happen, that you were moved inside?
' O 13 THE WITNESS: The same day.
14 BY MR. GUILD:
15 Q Now, the Seese memo, the 4-13-85 memo that is a portion 16 of Intervenors' Exhibit 82, again down at Paragraph No.
17 8, has Mr. Seese saying, "One afternoon he talked with l 18 the NRC and the next morning I moved him into the QC 19 vault."
l 20 Is it your recollection that that happened the same
[
21 day?
22 A I was told that I would be moving the next day.
23 That afternoon, af ter I had talked to the NRC 24 person, he told me that the next morning I would be 25 moving into the inner corral area.
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1 Q All right. Now, in Paragraph No. 9, Mr. Seese documents 2 that, quote, "I reminded Rick that his conversations 3 with the NRC are private and that I would have no way of 4 knowing when he talked to them. In addition, that his 5 money or job assignment did not change, only his seating 6 assignment. The reason for that change was increased 7 control over the QC records that he used for his 8 computer status."
9 Now, first of all, do you recall Mr. Seese now, 10 again, at the time of the warning for leaving three 4
11 minutes early, reminding you, as he states in this memo, 12 on the subject of your being moved from the outer area 13 to the inner area, as you have just testified?
14 A Okay.
15 Q Did Seese talk about that subject with you that day?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Now, did he remind you, as he states here, that your 18 conversations with the NRC are private?
19 A Yes, he did.
20 Q Did he remind you that he would have no way of knouing 21 when you talked to them, the NRC?
22 A Yes, he did.
23 Q And that your seating assignment change had nothing to 24 do with the NRC?
25 A Yes.
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1 Q He told you all of that?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Did that alleviate your concerns on the subject, Mr.
4 Martin?
'5 A I -- I knew -- how am I going to put this?
6 I don't know how to put it.without just saying that 7 he was just lying and he wanted to, you know, just clear 8 himself of any suspicions that somebody picking up a 9 memo and looking at it can -- I don't -- I am --
10 Q Did you believe Mr._Seese's reassurances?
11 A No. The --
12 Q Yes? Did you complete your answer?
O 13 A Never mind, no.
14 .R. GUILD:
M Mr. Chairman, could I suggest a i 15 recess at this point?
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, sure.
17 We will take a ten-minute recess..
18 (WHEREU PON, a recess was had, after which 19 the hearing was resumed as follows:)
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We a're back in session.
21 Is there anything you want to report to us, Mr.
22 Berry?
i 23 MR. BERRY: Mr. Chairman, I have a copy of 24 OI's response. Apparently, though, that response was 25 prepared before the discussion we had this morning.
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1 In its present form it doesn't address -- it 2 doesn't contain a request or guidance from a person 3 authorized to speak for the Commission.
4 I have contacted Staff and the Staff superiors on 5 this to inquire whether they want to supplement this 6 response before we present it to the Board.
7 As of yet, I haven't been able to get an answer on 8 that.
9 So I would still request that the Board allow us 10 till tomorrow morning before we present it.
11 If there is ne further supplementation to it,-then
.s 12 I would just make available to the Board the response as 13 it presently exists; but I think they should have an 14 opportunity to determine whether they want to. supplement 15 it in light of the discussion that we had this morning.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's fine.
17 So we will discuss it further some time tomorrow 18 morning.
l l 19 MR. BERRY: Thank you.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Mr. Guild, are you
- 21 prepared to continue now?
22 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.
l 23 BY MR. GUILD:
i 24 Q Mr. Martin, during the period of time that you described l
25 in which your relations with Mr. Seese deteriorated, his
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1 attitude change, af ter his attitude changed, did he 2 require you to maintain status reports of the work that 3 you were performing?
4 A Yes.
5 0 Were these the same type of reports that other QC 6 Inspectors or QC Department employees maintained, a 7 daily status report?
8 A No.
9 0 What kind of reports did you maintain?
10 A It was a description of what I did in a given day, that 11 day for that status report. It just was a record of 12 what I had done.
C)s 13 0 Were you required to maintain, in effect, hourly status 14 reports?
15 A Yes, break them down in hours, if there was -- if I had 16 done like two dif ferent jobs, so many hours for one job, 17 so many hours for the other, approximate.
JR If I worked all day, I would put eight hours work 19 on some.
20 Yes, it was hourly.
21 Q All right.
22 Were other employees in the QC Department required 23 to account for their hours on an hourly basis in their 24 status reports, to your knowledge?
1 l
(} 25 A No.
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9225 1 0 So it was a requirement imposed on you alone, as f ar as 2 you know?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Now, you related the circumstances of your transfer from 5 one part of the vault to the other part of the vault by 6 Mr. Seese that you believe was a consequence of your 7 talking to Mr. Schulz, the NRC inspector.
8 Did you become aware of any other instances in 9 which other QC Inspectors were transferred by management 10 because they raised concerns about inspection quality or 11 safety issues?
12 A That's a pretty big question.
13 Now, does the question pertain to this specific 14 time period or --
15 Q No, sir; in general at any time at Comstock.
16 A Well, I -- I believe I testified in my deposition that 17 while I was on nights -- this was current at the time of 18 my deposition -- one inspector, Jeff Dominique, was 19 identifying numerous broken flex -- flexible conduits i
20 were broken where cable was installed, and he was 21 writing up 10 to 20 a night.
22 They ended up taking him off nights, and they told 23 him not to -- not to be going out of the scope of his 24 work.
/"T 25 He -- he was told a few times not to write these V
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1 items up, and they ended up taking him off nights and i
2 giving him a job on days. l 3 0 All right.
4 And how did you learn these facts with regard to j 5 Mr. Dominique?
6 A As a personal witness plus his own talking about it.
7 When we worked in the office together, he would mention 8 it, you know, this and that.
9 0 So you heard Mr. Dominique state in substance that he 10 had conducted such inspections, made such findings and 11 had been transferred?
- 12 A Yes.
13 ~Q All right.
14 You said " personal witness."
15 To what extent, Mr. Martin, did you -- did you 16 observe or --
17 A I observed them putting him from nights on days.
18 0 Okay.
19 Do you know what the scope of Mr. Dominique's work 20 was at the time he was identifying the broken flex 21 conduits?
22 A Yes. He was a conduit inspector.
23 0 In your deposition you mentioned, in response to a 24 question on this subject of transfers, Messrs. Bossong,
(} 25 Perryman, Peterson and Asmussen.
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1 Do you recall identifying those gentlemen in the 2 context of transfers for persons who had raised quality j 3 concerns? l 1
l 4 A Yes.
5 0 Can you tell me -- can you recall how you learned of the 6 transfer of Mr. Bossong?
7 A Just by not.ing -- being a witness to his transfer.
8 I mean, if -- if you get transferred in the office, l 1
I 9 nobody has to tell you, although, you know, individuals l
10 did say -- that's how I first learned about it, you 11 know. People were talking about it, you know; from 12 individuals.
13 Q Bossong was transferred from what to what, to your 14 understanding?
15 A He was traitsferred three or four 61fferent times, and it 16 seemed they didn' t keep him in one spot very long.
17 Every area that he was in, he identified particular 18 problems, which I cannot specify, but I just know that l
19 these problems were present and the transfers did take 20 place.
21 It was f elt that, you know, there was really no 22 reason for the transfers except for the f act of the l
l 23 problems he was identifying.
24 0 All right.
25 Did you become aware that Mr. Bossong identified
("}
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-o 9228 1 problems through personal observation or hearing it in 2 the office or how, Mr. Martin?
3 A By the inspectors talking about the problems, I became 4 aware of the problems.
5 Q All right.
6 Just general talk among the inspectors that you 7 observed --
8 A Yes.
9 0 -- regarding Mr. Bossong identifying problems?
10 A Yes.
11 Q All right.
12 And your personal observation that he was 13 transferred?
14 A Yes.
15 0 And was it general talk among the inspectors that 16 Bossong was transferred because he had identified 17 problems in various areas?
18 A Yes.
19 0 How about Mr. Perryman?
20 Do you recall Mr. Perryman having been subject to 21 transfer because he identified problems or quality 22 concerns?
23 A No, I do not.
24 0 You mentioned Mr. Perryman in your deposition in this 25 regard.
(]}
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l 1 Do you have any specific recall about Perryman on 2 that subject? ,
I 3 A Not at this time. I'll probably get home and -- but at ,
4 this time I do not recall any.
l 5 Q All right, sir.
6 You mentioned the name Peterson.
7 Is that a Dean Peterson who is a QC Inspector? !
8 A Yes.
9 0 You mentioned Mr. Peterson in the same connection.
10 Are you aware that Mr. Peterson had been 11 transferred because he raised quality concerns?
12 A I believe he was on a cable pan walkdown project and he 13 was writing up quite a few items, so they transferred 14 him to the S & L cable pan hanger walkdown program.
15 0 Okay.
16 How did you learn that -- these f acts about Mr.
17 Peterson?
l 18 A Through general talk of the inspectors.
19 Q Was it general talk of the inspectors that Peterson was 20 transferred because he had identified problems in his 21 previous position?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Do you have any information as to the nature of the 24 problems he was identifying?
(~'. 25 A No, I do not.
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V 1 0 You mentioned in your deposition testimony, finally, Mr.
2 Asmussen.
3 Do you know Dan Asmussen?
4 A Yes.
5 0 All right.
6 And was Mr. Asmussen transferred because he 7 identified quality problems?
8 A I can't recall any specific case at this time.
9 0 All right.
10 Can you recall that Mr. Asmussen was transferred 11 for identifying quality problems?
12 A (No response.)
13 Q Aside f rom the specifics, Mr. Martin.
14 A Yeah.
15 It was -- all these individuals had been 16 transferred in and out of departments, and it was just 17 kind of -- it seemed like once they got into a job, they
! 18 were transferred.
19 It was just so many different problems were 20 addressed and so many people had items of concern that 21 at that point in time it was really just one big mess.
22 It was something that I was physically not 23 connected with, since I was at this time working in the l
l l
24 office and I had not been out in the field.
() 25 So all of the things that I would hear would be by l Sonntaq Reporting Servicef_Ltd.
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1 the -- just the -- what the inspectors were saying and 2 things that I, you know, might talk about or come across 3 in a conversation.
4 0 All right.
5 Asmussen and his transf ers -- were those the 6 subject of general conversation among the dC inspectors 7 as well?
8 A Yes.
9 A lot of the transfers then were -- no reasons were 10 given for them, and they were just told to change here 11 and there. It was --
12 0 Were you aware that Mr. Asmussen had ever raised a 13 concern to management regarding the adequacy of past 14 weld inspection practices and documentation?
15 A No, I was not.
t 16 0 Were you aware of the transfer of a QC Inspector named
! 17 John Seeders?
18 A Yes.
l 19 Q And were you aware that Mr. Seeders was transferred from 1
20 the calibrations inspection to the Comstock Engineering 21 Department?
22 A Yes.
23 0 Were you aware that Mr. Seeders alleged that his 24 transfer was retaliatory? l
(} 25 A Yes.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
l Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262 1 . _ . -. . .- - .
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1 Q Were you aware that Seeders had any -- had received a 2 written warning f rom Mr. Saklak --
3 A Yes.
4 Q -- and that Seeders wrote a letter in August of 1984?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Did you ever see that letter?
7 A Yes, I have.
8 Q Do you recall whether you saw it at about the time it 9 was written --
10 A Yes.
11 0 -- in August of '84?
12 Was Mr. Seeders' transfer the subject of O 13 conversation among the QC Inspectors?
14 A At -- yes, yes.
15 0 And did you ever talk to John Seeders about it? ,
16 A Yes, I did.
17 0 What in substance do you recall Mr. Seeders saying to 18 you about his transfer or the events that led up to his
) 19 transfer?
20 A At the time he f elt that it was the -- the last step 21 before they would terminate him.
22 He felt that working as an engineer, that he would 23 not be under the protection of 10 CFR 50 and such other 24 regulations in that he felt that he would soon be
(} 25 terminated. That was his main concern.
Sonntag_R_eporting Service; Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 As f ar as -- that's -- that's about the whole -- I 2 would say that's the main concern he had.
3 0 All right.
4 Were you aware of a QC employee named Worley 5 Puckett?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Do you know Mr. Puckett as the man they hired to be the 8 Level III Weld Inspector?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Did you have any contact with Mr. Puckett when he was on 11 the job?
12 A Yes.
13 0 All right.
14 Are you aware that Mr. Puckett identified a number 15 of deficiencies in the Comstock weld inspection --
16 welding program?
17 A Yes.
18 0 Are you aware that he recommended a stop-work on 19 portions of the welding program --
20 A Yes.
21 0 -- and that he was subsequently terminated?
22 A Yes.
23 0 Are you aware that Mr. Puckett alleged to the Department 24 of Labor that his termination was in retaliation for
(} 25 having raised those concerns about the welding program?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9234 O
1 A Yes.
2, O Was Mr. Puckett's termination and the circumstances 3 leading up to his termination the subject of talk among 4 the QC Inspectors? l 5 A Yes, it was.
l 6 0 And did you have any discussions with Mr. Puckett about l
l 7 -- strike that.
8 Mr. Martin, were you ever aware of any instructions 9 to you or others that you were not to talk to or go to I l
10 Commonwealth Edison Company? 1 11 A Yes.
12 0 And what were the circumstances under which you received 13 such instructions?
14 A I guess some inspectors had been maybe socializing a 15 little bit, and we were told that no person was supposed 16 to go over there and socialize.
17 We were also told that we were to keep any problems 18 that we had within our company; we're not -- we were 19 told not to go over to CECO with any quality concerns l 20 before going to Comstocx first --
l l 21 Q All right.
22 A -- using what they called the chain of command.
23 Q All right, sir.
24 Well, aside from the socializing issue, who, if 25 anyone, in management instructed you not to go to CECO 1
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
' Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
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I O
1 with work-related concerns?
2 A Irv DeWald.
3 Q Did he say this to you personally or was it in a group 4 setting?
5 A It was in a group setting.
6 0 Can you recall the context in which Mr. DeWald made such 7 an instruction?
8 A Yes.
9 He basically said that, "We have a chain of 10 command, and we expect the inspectors to go through the 11 proper channels in addressing quality problems."
12 Q All right.
13 Do you know what, if anything, prompted Mr. DeWald 14 to make such an instruction?
15 A No. -
16 Q He didn't say, I take it?
i 17 A No.
I 18 Q "He," DeWald, didn't say?
19 A No.
l 20 0 Do you recall ever being instructed not to go to Sargent 21 & Lundy with problems or questions?
22 A Yes, I do.
23 Q Were you personally so instructed?
24 A Yes.
l
{} 25 Q By whom?
1 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, IIllnois 60134 (312) 232-0262 t
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1 A Irv DeWald and Rick Saklak.
2 O What were the circumstances in which you were told not 3 to go to Sargent & Lundy with problems?
4 A I had a question with a drawing, and at the time I ras 5 decertified or not certified or whatever status I had at 6 that time.
7 I was working with an inspector that just got 8 certified, and we took this problem to S & L to try to 9 have an interpretation of the o. awing resolved.
10 I guess S & L took it bad and called up our 11 management. When we got into our office, Irv and Rick 12 chewed -- chewed me out pretty good.
13 0 Can you recall when this happened, Mr. Martin, 14 approximately?
15 A When?
16 0 Yes.
17 Had you just been decertified or suspended or 18 whatever the word was?
l 19 A No. I t -- it had been a while. It had been a few i
20 months.
21 Q All right.
- 22 That was in -- that decertification or suspension 23 took place in October of '83 --
24 A Yes.
(} 25 0 -- early ' 84, perhaps?
l Sonntag Re_ porting Service, Ltd.
l Geneva, Illinois 60134 l
(312) 232-0262
9237 r'" J Q-)T l 1 A Yes. l 2 Q Can you recall the other inspector's name?
3 A Tom Dunbar.
4 Q What was the substance of Mr. DeWald and Mr. Saklak's 5 chewing-out?
6 A Well, it was just -- they simply stated that I should 7 have known better than to go over there. They expected 8 me -- they told me if I went over there again, I'd be 9 subject to disciplinary action or termination, and they 10 used vulgar language.
11 Q What did they tell you, if anything, was wrong or 12 improper about going to Sargent & Lundy with a question 13 or a problem?
14 A They said that we need to go through the proper channels 15 and that we should have -- bring our problems to one 16 person and then let them go over; let the proper person 17 go over to S & L.
, 18 Q Did they tell you who the proper person was?
! 19 A At the time, yes, I believe they did.
20 I don't recall now who that person would be.
21 Q Do you recall whether it was Mr. Saklak or Mr. DeWald?
22 A I can't say. I don' t remember.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
( 24 When was it that Mr. DeWald had instructed you not l
(} 25 to go to CECO with regard to work-related problems?
Sonntag Repor__ ting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 6013 C -'~
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1 THE WITNESS: Sometime in '84.
2 They -- they began telling that -- telling us that 3 sometime in '84, and usually it would -- it had been 4 brought up a few times that we should not go over to 5 Commonwealth Edison.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: These were in group meetings 7 that took place in 1984?
8 THE WITNESS: Yes. .
9 BY MR. GUILD:
10 0 Mr. Martin, were you ever aware of the use of status 11 reports to maintain quotas or measures of inspector 12 productivity; say, numbers of inspections performed 13 during a day?
14 A I was aware that the inspectors filled out status 15 reports, but I didn't have any involvement with their 16 program, since I had my own.
1 17 Q All right.
18 Did the documents pass through you or by you or 19 what was your relationship with the status reports, say, 20 during the time that you worked in or near the vault 21 with Mr. Seese?
22 A N ow , are you talking about inspector status reports or 23 the ones that I filled out?
24 0 Well, let's talk first about inspector status reports,
(} 25 the reports that the record reficcts are completed by Sonnt aq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232 0262
9239 (D
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1 the individuals or by the individuals' Leads and passed 2 on up through supervision.
I 3 A I had no involvement with those --
4 Q Okay..
,I 5 A -- tnat I can recall.
6 Q Were you aware that they existed?
7 A Yes, oh, yes.
8 0 You didt:'t process them, though, or have any contact 9 with those documents?
10 A As a matter of fact, now that I recall, at the very 11 beginning of that program, I did have an involvement 12 with them.
O 13 I had been given a project to count up backlog 14 installation reports and establish a count of our 15 backlog. When the status reports first were coming out, 16 we -- we would review them.
17 But the memory is very sketchy. I -- it was a long 18 time ago.
19 0 You performed some review of those status reports when 20 they first began being used; is that right?
21 A Yes.
22 Q All right.
23 You can't recall today what review you performed?
24 A No, I cannot.
25 0 All right, sir, ,
[}
Sonntag_ Reporting Service, Ltd. ~
Geneva, Tillnois ~66114 (312) 232-0262 .
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9240 l
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<> 1 1 Now, what were the status reports, then, the other 1
2 type that you maintained?
3 Those were your daily reports on what you did?
4 A Yes.
5 0 All right, sir.
6 Now, aside from those, were you aware -- through, 7 say, the group meetings or other forums -- that 8 management was maintaining measur6s of productivity on 9 inspectors,e say, inspections performed during a day?
10 A I can't recall.
11 0 All right.
S 12 Can you recall management ever discussing the 13 numbers of work units that were required to be performed 14 j over a period of time either by individual inspectors or 15 by the inspectors as a group?
16 A Yes. They were -- they were given, you could say, a 17 3 goal quota, 1
18 10 okay.
19 .
A A person should -- barring any probleme, a person should 20 be able to inspect .so many itens a day.
21 The exact amount that they had I cannot recall, but 22 there was that type of goal-setting, 23 0 And how did you become aware of those goal quotas, 24 numbers per day?
(} 25 A Through Irv DeWald.
l L- sonntaa neporting_ service,_tta.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 d
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_m.
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1 0 Did Mr. DeWald speak about those subjects at general 2 meetings?
3 A Yes.
4 Q All right.
5 That's how you learned about them?
6 A Yes.
7 0 Do you recall ever hearing cbout -- you've testified ,
8 previously that you performed weld inspections early in 9 the project, Mr. Martin, at the time that Mr. DeWald 10 himself was also a Level II Weld Inspector.
11 A Yes.
12 Q Do you recall ever discussing this subject with the --
13 with the NRC: Mr. DeWald's past inspection practices?
14 A No, I never -- no, I never talked to the NRC about that.
15 0 Do you recall talking to the NRC about the subject of 16 Mr. DeWald's 1,000-weld checklist?
, 17 A That subject came up at the deposition. At that time I l
l 18 maintained that such a checklist was not available in 19 the vault.
20 0 All right.
l 21 Well, let me be clear. Indeed you were asked about 22 that subject in your deposition, Mr. Martin.
23 The question is: Do you remember now whether you 24 talked about the subject of Mr. DeWald's 1,000-weld ,
{} 25 checklist with the NRC, not in the deposition, now, but Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
! Geneva, Illinois 60134
- (312) 232-0262
9242 (a^h 1 in some other case -- at some other time?
2 A No, I did not.
3 Q Mr. Martin, you testified about -- excuse me. Strike 4 that.
5 Mr. Martin, do you recall an incident in September 6 of 1983 when you were engaged in a weld inspection in 7 the diesel generator room and you received a threatening 8 note?
9 A Yes.
10 Q All right.
11 Would you -- would you describe the circumstances, s 12 first, in which you found this note, please?
~,) ,
13 A We had gotten a memo from CECO that the diesel -
14 generators had a goal for completion. They wanted us to 15 take an inventory and make sure so we could establish at 16 what point we were in completing this diesel generator.
17 At that point a few inspectors were assigned in 18 that area to clean the area up.
19 When we went to the area, we found that numerous 20 items had not been inspected. In fact, I established 21 that there hadn't been an inspector in that area for 22 about a year and a half, two years.
23 Q By that ycu mean a weld inspector?
24 A Yes.
{} 25 0 All right.
Sonnt.ag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 A So we proceeded to go through and inspect the area.
2 Almost all the hangers were covered with 3 fireproofing and rust. Therefore, we wrote up just 4 about everything in this generator room to have it 5 cleaned up to prep it for inspection.
6 0 When you say "we," Mr. Martin, you and some other 7 inspectors?
8 A Yes; mainly me and an inspector named Don Crispino, who 9 h&d recently hired on.
10 0 All right.
11 The two of you were assigned this project of 12 getting the diesel generator room in shape?
O 13 A Yes.
14 Q All right.
15 What did you write up when you wrote up the welds 16 that were covered with fireproofing and dust and rust, 17 et cetera?
18 A I just wrote a generic ICR that these items had to be 19 cleaned off and --
20 0 Let me interrupt you again.
21 By " generic," you mean the ICR document referred to 22 more than one weld?
23 A More.than one hanger.
24 Q More than one hanger?
{} 25 A Yes.
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60131 (312) 232-0262
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1 Q A condition that you found generally existed that 2 precluded you from inspecting the welds in the diesel 3 generator room?
4 A The hangers listed.
5 0 So you identified this condition.
6 Then what happened?
7 A Well, it -- there was a lot of red flags in the area, 8 and the craf t was beginning to get pretty upset about 9 it.
10 They felt, I guess, that their work had been 11 acceptable for the past year and a half, two years; and
- 12 we rejected some of their current work, also.
13 After we had been working in there for a few 14 days --
15 Q Excuse me again for interrupting.
16 When you say " rejected some of their current work,"
17 do you mean welds that had currently been installed that 18 you inspected and you found to be in a rejectable 19 condition?
20 A Yes.
21 0 You had been there a few days?
22 A Yes.
23 One day I came there after lunch to inspect -- to 24 continue my inspection efforts; and there was a note
{} 25 laying on the floor, saying to t'e effect - they used Sonnt_aq Repo_rting Servich _Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
1 l
9245 1 1
i 1
1 my nickname, " Opie" -- saying that if I want to live, 2 I'd better get out of the area.
i 3 I picked it up and put it in my notebook, and I i 4 went up to the top to inspect the hanger that I was 5 going to look at, which was a current hanger. There was 6 a note up there, and it said to the effect why don't I l l
7 get out of here and get a white man's job. ;
8 That's what it said, so -- ,
1 9 Q All right.
10 Mr. Martin, let me show you a document.
11 (Indicating.)
12 Mr. Martin, this document is in several parts.
13 There are two portions that appear to the right that 14 appear to be written in some thick marker.
15 Are those the notes you found?
, 16 A Yes, they are, l
l 17 0 They are two separate notes, are they not?
18 A Yes, they were.
19 0 In the left-hand portion of the document appears to be l 20 -- in finer-hand pen, it appears to be signed "F.
l 21 Rolan."
t 22 Now, you found two notes, copies of which appear in l
23 the document I've just shown you. You said you put them 24 in your notebook.
(} 25 What did you do then?
l i
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
l Geneva, Illinois 6oI34
~
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9246 O
1 A I brought them in to the QC Manager and showed them to 2 him.
3 Q Mr. DeWald?
4 A Yes.
5 Q All right.
6 What in substance did Mr. DeWald say when you l 7 showed him the notes?
8 A He took them down and brought them to Frank Rolan.
9 0 That's what you understand that he did.
10 But what, if anything, did Mr. DeWald say to you?
11 A Nothing at that particular time -- well, he asked me the 12 general circumstances surrounding the incident, and I 13 explained to him basically what I just explained here:
14 that I walked into the diesel generator room and found 15 one note on the floor and walked up the ladder and found
- 16 the other note and --
l l 17 Q Did Mr. DeWald express to you at that titce any ' opinion 18 as to the propriety of the conduct involved in writing j 19 these notes, someone writing those notes?
20 A No.
21 Q Did he appear to be shocked, distressed, angry?
l 22 Did he show any emotion at all?
23 A No, but that's kind of -- but -- no.
l 24 Q Please finish your answer.
25 A Irv is kind of -- I don' t know if he'd show emotion
(]}
Sonntag_ Reporting _Satrire1_Ltd Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
i 9247 l(2)
I anyway.
2 0 It was not surprising to you that Mr. DeWald didn't show 3 any emotion, given your observation of Mr. DeWald?
4 A No, I was not surprised.
5 0 All right.
6 And then you understood that Mr. DeWald contacted 7 Mr. Rolan; is that correct?
8 A Yes.
9 0 And how did you understand that?
10 A Through a meeting that we later had between me, Irv and 11 Frank.
12 0 Okay.
13 Just the three of you?
14 A Yes.
15 0 All right.
16 And what transpired at that meeting?
17 Frank Rolan, now; right?
18 A They just asked me that -- whc I thought did it; the 19 circumstances involving it, basically. That's about it.
20 Q Did Mr. Rolan express any opinion about the propriety of 21 the writing of these notes?
22 A No.
23 0 Did Mr. Rolan appear to you to be angry, shocked,
. 24 displeased?
(} 25 Did he express any emotion in this meeting you had Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 with him?
l 2 A He sec=ed to be a little upset. ;
3 Q Did he state to you why? Did he tell you what --
4 A No.
I 5 Q All right.
6 You related -- did you relate anything to Mr. Rolan 7 or Mr. DeWald at this second meeting, aside f rom the 8 substance of what you told us so far about the 9 circumstances?
10 A No. That was the content.
11 Q All right.
12 Now, he asked you who you thought wrote them.
13 Did you tell him who you thought wrote the notes?
14 A Yes, I did.
15 Q All right'.
16 And did you state -- who did you identify, if you 17 recall?
18 A I -- I identified three welding inspectors.
19 Q Three welders or welding inspectors?
20 A Oh, I'm sorry. I identified three welders: Jim 21 Sanchez, Bernie Shreffler and Ron Ott.
22 I specifically noted that I felt that Ron Ott was 23 the individual, reasoning because his welds were the 24 ones that had been rejected in that specific spot where 25 the note was and it was -- he was getting hit the
/}
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 hardest.
2 0 Mr. Ott -- was it his current weld work that you had 3 rejected?
4 A Yes -- current and backlog. He had been in that area 5 for nearly two -- three years, so he had backlog work 6 and current work.
7 0 All right.
8 Well, now, you've testified that you found welds 9 that were not in an inspectable condition; they had 10 fireproofing and rust and dirt.
11 Did you also find welds of Mr. Ott's that were in
- 12 an inspectable condition that you found to be 13 rejectable?
14 A Yes.
15 0 All right.
16 And were some of those current welds, Mr. Ott's?
17 A Yes.
I 18 Q All right.
19 And some of those were past welds that were cleaned 20 up sufficiently so you could inspect them, I take it?
l 21 A At that point in time, I believe we did have some welds 22 cleaned off. We were beginning to get into the welds 23 that had to be cleaned to inspect them first.
24 So yes, possibly.
(} 25 0 I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9250 1 Were there any other conditions of Mr. Ott's work 2 which you observed?
3 I thought I covered the waterfront: dirty ones 4 that were cleaned so you could inspect them and --
5 A Yes. There were numerous old welds that were 6 inspectable that we did reject --
7 Q And some of them were Mr. Ott's?
8 A -- quite a few.
9 Yes. Most of the older ones were Mr. Ott's.
10 0 And ycu found the notes, I understand you to say, close 11 to an installation that was Mr. Ott's work --
12 A Yes.
O 13 0 -- that you just rejected; right?
14 A Yes.
i' 15 0 Okay.
16 You said that to Rolan and DeWald in this meeting.
17 What, if any, response did they make to you?
l 18 A None.
19 0 All right.
20 What action did management take, Mr. Martin, if you 21 know?
22 A They brought the whole crew in; and as far as what I l 23 understand, he just simply explained to them the l
l 24 seriousness of threatening a Quality Control Inspector.
l 25 0 When you say "he," you mean Mr. Rolan?
(]}
l l Sonntag_ Reporting Service, __ Ltd.
( Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
9251 l
O 1 A Yes. 1 2 Q Okay.
3 Now, how do you understand this is what he did?
4 Were you there?
5 A I witnessed the crew going into Frank Rolan's office.
6 0 All right, sir.
7 You have an understanding of what he told them, but 8 you weren't present when he made the statements to them, 9 I take it?
10 A No, I was not.
11 0 How do you understand the statements that he said to 12 them?
O 13 A Irv DeWald mentioned to me af ter that that -- that Frank 14 had talked to them and told them that they -- told them 15 the seriousness of -- of harassing or intimidating an 16 inspector.
17 Q That was DeWald's account of what Rolan had said?
I Yes.
18 A 19 Q All right.
20 And did you understand that Mr. DeWald had been a l
21 witness, had been present during this meeting?
l 22 A Yes.
l 23 Q Now, you expressed your opinion that Mr. Ott was the 24 perpetrator, if you will, and you stated just a moment
(} 25 ago the reasons why you believed that to be the case.
1 Sonntag deporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Do ycu know whether or not Mr. Rolan or Mr. DeWald 1
2 or anyone else in management took a formal statement i 3 from Mr. Ott about the circumstances and his knowledge )
4 of the circumstances? j l
No.
5 A I -- I don' t believe there was any such interview 6 or whatever.
7 Q Do you know whether they interviewed him separately from ,
8 the rest of the people who were in the room at the time?
9 A No. I don't think there was a -- no, there was no ;
10 interv.i ew.
11 MR. GUILD: So they had this meeting with the gg 12 inspectors -- or the welders; excuse me.
s_/
13 I'm looking at this document now, the one that
- 14 contains the two notes.
15 Let me ask that this be marked for identification 16 as Intervenors' Exhibit 83, pleace, Mr. Chairman.
17 (The document was thereupon marked 18 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 83 for 19 identification as of July 29, 1986.)
20 BY MR. GUILD:
21 Q On the left-hand side, there's the writiag in hand that 22 is on a memo that says "From the desk of Frank Rolan."
23 It says on the second portion of the note, "A 24 meeting was held with the following personnel: B.
25 Whitney, Area Manager; P. Hicks, Steward; J. Neese" --
{])
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Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 A "AGF."
2 Q "AGF," okay.
3 Do you know who those first three gentlemen are?
4 A Yes, I do.
5 0 Are they management people or supervision?
6 Whitney is a supervisor, I take it?
7 A Yes.
8 0 Hicks is a shop steward? Is that --
4 9 A Yes.
10 Q -- what the reference is?
11 And Neese is an Area General Foreman?
12 A Yes.
13 0 Craf t supervision.
14 How about "M. Dinelli, GF"; General Foreman?
15 A Yes.
16 Q Was he over the diesel generator room welders?
17 A Yes.
18 0 R. V. Cook, Foreman.
19 Mr. Cook was the foreman of the diesel generator 20 welders?
21 A Yes.
I 22 0 And then it says "and all the welders in the crew."
23 Do you know how many welders there were in the 24 crew?
25 A I believe there were actually three welders, but they
(]}
Sonntag Reportin3 Service, Ltd.
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1 brought the whole crew in.
2 0 Including helpers and fitters, I take it?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Okay.
j 5 Now, aside from this interview with all of the
! 6 crew, do you know any other action that was taken by 7 Comstock management as a result of this incident, Mr.
8 Martin?
9 A They pulled me out of the area.
10 0 All right.
11 So they removed you f rom your inspection duties in g-) 12 this area?
i (_t 13 A Yes.
14 Q Did they tell you -- who did that? Who made such a 15 transfer?
16 A Irv DeWald.
17 Q All right.
18 And did Mr. DeWald explain to you why he 4
19 transferred you as a response to this incident?
20 A He felt that he didn't want the situation to get out of 21 hand, so he thought that he should just take me out of 22 the area to avoid confrontations -- any more 23 confrontations.
24 0 Did he make that statement to you in substance?
(} 25 A Yes.
Sonritag_Reportina Service,_Ltd.
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9255 0 -
1 Q Do you know whether any disciplinary action at all was 2 taken against any of the craf t involved in writing these 3 threatening notes to you, Mr. Martin?
4 A There was none.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
6 Were you in favor of.being taken out of that area?
7 THE WITNESS: Well, at first I requested to 8 continue my inspections in the area.
9 But when I saw that the craf t -- I felt that the 10 notes were not so threatening because I felt that I 11 could understand a welder getting upset. I could 12 understand them getting mad. I can see how they just O 13 want to blow it off a little.
14 But when I went back to the area, they were really 15 bitter. The anger had changed from just an outburst to 16 -- I mean, they just decided they were going to, you 17 know, not talk to me or socialize with me, which we had 18 done.
19 Then I felt, you know, it would be good to -- to 20 leave the area.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: So that transfer out of that 22 area was not over your objection that Mr. DeWald 23 transferred you out?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes. It was -- it was like a ggg 25 day after the incident.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 I cannot recall exactly the contact I had, but Irv 2 brought me in and suggested that I be taken out. I 3 said, "Well," you know, "it's good for all sides 4 concerned, I guess," so I was taken out of the area.
5 BY MR. GUILD:
6 0 Mr. Martin, was there -- you stated that there was a ;
7 change in the attitude of the craft in the area after 8 this incident.
! 9 I gather that the craft was aware that you had 10 complained about these notes?
11 A Yes.
12 0 And presumably they were aware f rom having heard it f rom 13 Mr. Rolan at this meeting.
I 14 Was the subject of these notes otherwise discussed 15 among the craf t, to your knowledge?
16 A I heard other comments, but specific -- you know, from l
17 going out into the field, but I cannot recall any l 18 specific conversation or statement by any person.
l l 19 0 Okay.
t 20 Was the subject of management's response to these 21 threatening notes, QC management's response and the 22 response by Mr. Rolan -- was that discussed among the QC 23 Inspectors?
24 Did you talk to anyone else about it?
l l
(} 25 A Yes.
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1 The person that was with me in the area inspecting 2 -- he got pretty upset about the whole thing.
3 He felt that if they, you know -- if -- if they did 4 this to me, then it would just be a matter of time 5 before they would do it to him, because in actuality 6 most of the welds that they were upset about he had 7 inspected, especially the current ones, which probably 8 they were most upset about.
9 He felt that the electricians should be fired.
10 0 The welders?
11 A Yes, the electricians and the welders.
12 Q Did you discuss it with anyone else, aside from the O 13 other QC Inspector who worked with you in the area?
14 A Oh, yeah. I talked about it quite a bit to other 15 inspectors, but I cannot recall any specific items that 16 we talked about.
17 0 was it the subject of general discussion among the QC 18 Inspectors at the time, Mr. Martin?
19 A Yes.
20 0 All right.
21 And what was the general reaction of the inspectors 22 to the way that Comstock's management had handled this 23 matter?
24 A Almost everybody disapproved because they felt that they ggg 25 should have looked into it more and that the person that Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 was responsible should have been terminated.
2 They just -- most of the people just didn't like 3 the way it was handled --
4 Q All right, sir.
5 A -- because --
6 Q Did you complete your answer?
7 A -- because they related that, you know, "If the same 8 thing happens to me," you know, "what are they going to 9 do to me? Are they going to transfer all the inspectors 10 out of the area?"
11 That was one of the things we talked about.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
13 Were you satisfied with the way management handled 14 that?
15 THE WITNESS: No, not -- at that particular 16 time, I just felt that they really tried to play it down 17 as far as I was concerned, because I think they were 18 af raid I'd go to the NRC or something.
19 They wanted to say, "Well," you know, "we've got a 20 little problem here. We'll take care of it," you know.
21 They said, "We're going to bring them in and talk to 22 them." You know, at the time I thought it was 23 sufficient, j 24 Now that I look back, I think it's really a shame 25 the way they handled it, because instead of taking me S o n n t ag_R eport igLS_e r.y_i c e ,_L t d .
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4 1 out of the area, they should have transferred the 2 welders, because that's a sorry statement for our QC 3 program, to say, "Well, if we have a problem between 4 Construction and QC, we'll just take care of QC and 5 correct the problem with QC," instead of correcting the 6 problem where it really is: Construction.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's your present feeling 8 about it?
I 9 THE WITNESS: Yes.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: But at the time, your i
11 recollection is that you were satisfied with the way 12 they handled it?
O 13 THE WITNESS: Yes. Overall I was satisfied.
- 14 BY MR. GUILD
15 0 Well, Mr. Martin, when did your attitude about the way 16 QC management handled it change?
17 A Oh, I guess I related an earlier incident about Jerry 18 Krone and how he came into our QC office and pushed me 19 and pointed his finger at me and cursed at me, and then 20 they turn around and take me off nights.
21 It just, you know -- at that point I realized, you
- 22 know, how far is it going to go? How far are we going i
23 to have to be taken away just because Construction has a 24 problem with us?
(} 25 Every time there's a conflict, it seems like Sonntag Reportin_g Service, Ltd.
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1 Quality control has to make the negotiation about it.
2 0 All right, sir.
3 Now, Mr. Martin, are you aware that the NRC's 4 Office of Investigations conducted an inquiry into this 5 matter recently?
6 A Yes.
7 Within the last -- I think about three or four 8 months ago, I was called into the NRC office. At that 9 time an Investigator Gavani -- Mr. Galvani or something 10 like that -- said that he had just arrived and he was 11 going through the files and he found this and he wanted 12 to perform an investigation.
13 At that time he questioned me about the whole 14 situation --
15 0 All right.
16 Now --
17 A -- the whole incident.
18 Q I'm looking at a document that was provided by the NRC 19 Staff, Mr. Martin. I showed it to you earlier today.
20 Do you recall having seen this document before I 21 showed it to you today?
22 (Indicating.)
23 It's a multi-page document. The first page i
24 reads --
1
(} 25 MR. BERRY: So the record is clear, I believe S_onnt.aq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 that the document being shown to the witness --
2 MR. GUILD: Please. I'd like to have the 3 record -- the witness' recollection unprompted.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I think Mr. Berry has a 5 comment, though, about the document.
6 I think he's going to tell you that he didn't have 7 the document but that the Board did or that I did.
8 MR. GUILD: Indeed, indeed.
9 MR. BERRY: That's correct.
10 MR. GUILD: Thank you.
11 BY MR. GUILD:
12 O The first page of the document has " Synopsis" written at 13 the top and has Case No. 3-84-005. It's got 13 pages to 14 it.
15 Mr. Martin, when did you first see that document?
16 A Today when I came in.
17 0 I showed it to you today; correct?
18 A Yes.
19 Q Now, it appears to reflect the results of an Office of 20 Investigations investigation of the issue.
21 Were you aware before today that one of those ,
22 welders involved, Mr. Ott, had confessed to having 23 authored the note?
24 A No, I was not aware of that.
{} 25 0 You' re aware because I told you that today, aren' t you?
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O 1 A Yes, I'm aware of it today -- I mean -- right.
2 Q The document, just to refresh your recollection, 3 reflects that you were interviewed. Looking at Page 9, 4 " Interview of Victim," it says, "On September 26, 1985, 5 Richard L. Martin was interviewed."
6 Does that refresh your recollection, Mr. Martin, 7 that it was in September of 1985 that the NRC called you 8 in?
9 A Yes, it does.
10 Q Do you know how the NRC learned of this incident, Mr.
11 Martin?
12 A They said they had just gone through some files and they 13 found these -- this here.
14 (Indicating.)
15 Q By "this here," you' re referring to the exhibit we've 16 marked Intervenors' Exhibit 83 that contains your notes 17 on it?
18 A Yes.
19 0 Okay.
20 Mr. Galvani or the representative of the NRC that 21 spoke to you in September informed you of that fact; is 22 that right?
23 A Yes.
24 Q And did he shed any light on how he came to receive a
(} 25 copy -- or the NRC came to receive a copy of that Eonntag_Repotting_Sg aica,_Ltd.
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0 1 document?
2 A No, he did not.
1 3 Q All right.
4 In any event, as you testified, Galvani -- or 5 whoever the gentleman was -- said he was new on the job, 6 was going through the files, came upon the note and 7 said, "We'd better look into this"?
8 A Yes. That's the understanding I had.
9 0 He contacted you and conducted an interview?
10 A Yes.
11 Q All right.
I 12 Now, you recounted what happened today on the 13 stand, Mr. Martin, and you named the welders.
14 Did you tell Mr. Galvani or the NRC representative, i 15 whatever his name was, in substance the same facts that l
16 you've told us today?
17 A Yes.
18 Q Okay.
19 And you told Mr. Rolan and Mr. DeWald those same 1
l 20 facts in substance way back in 1983 when the event 21 happened, didn' t you?
22 A Yes.
23 Q Did you discover any new facts between 1983 and 1985, i
24 when the OI people investigated -- interviewed you, that :
l 25 you shared with the OI man that you didn't share with
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1 Rolan and DeWald?
2 A Well, the inspector went into much more detailed 3 background because of his unf amiliarity with the program 4 _
and such.
5 But as f ar as specifically relating to the actual 6 event, there was really no extra information given than 7 what I had given Mr. DeWald and Frank Rolan.
8 Q All right.
9 Now, do you know to this day whether any action has 10 been taken against any of the craf t that were involved 11 in the incident way back in September of 19837 12 A No action was taken.
O 13 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I'd like to have 14 marked for identification only at this point a 13-page 15 document beginning with the -- with the title 16 " Synopsis," Case No. 3-84-005, the Office of 17 Investigations report of the investigation of these 18 facts involving Mr. Martin.
19 I ask that it be marked for identification as 20 Intervenors' Exhibit 84.
21 (The document was thereupon marked 22 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 84 for 23 identification as of July 29, 1986.)
24 MR. GUILD: I don't propose to offer it in ggg 25 evidence. I'd simply like it identified.
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1 That concludes my exanination.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
3 Mr. Martin, I take it you did not go to the NRC 4 about this incident originally?
5 THE WITNESS: No, I did not.
6 MR. GUILD: I guess I have a couple pending 7 matters.
8 JUDGE GROSSKAN: Yes. You never moved 83, I 9 don!t believe, in, which are the threatening notes.
10 Do you intend to move those in?
11 MR. GUILD: Yes, I do, your Honor.
12 Intervetors' Exhibit 83 I would mcVe.
) .
13 JUDGE GROSSEAN: I take it there is no 14 objection?
15 MR. GALLO: I do object to 83.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay.
17 MR. GALLO: I've got really two obj ections to 18 83.
19 One goes to the authenticity of this document. It 20 looks like, to me, it's been fabricated out of two 21 documents. It's something that I don't believe van 22 provided during the course of discovery by Applicant, 23 and I f rankly just don't know where this document came f 24 from.
(} 25 I did hear the witness testify that this OI l
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2 beyond that Applicant doesn't vcuch for this document, 3 based on my present knowledge with respect to it.
4 Perhaps Mr. Guild can enlighten us.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
6 Is there any problem with identifying where you got 7 that document?
8 Because I don't believe it was -- it was probably 9 an attachment to that OI report, but it certainly wasn't 10 an attachment to the one I gave you because --
- 11 MR. GUILD
- No, sir, it wasn' t.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- we didn't have
(
13 attachments.
14 MR. GUILD: No, sir, it wasn' t.
15 I believe, first, the witness has authenticated the 16 notes; and as to Mr. Rolan's portion of the document, 17 it's not really material.
18 I'm not particularly concerned about authenticating 19 that aspect of it. I'd be happy to not have that stand 20 for anything more than what it appears to be on the 21 piece of paper.
22 But the notes, of course, are authenticated by Mr.
23 Martin, who has personal knowledge.
24 Let me state, though, that Intervenors received 1
() 25 this note anonymously in the mail. I have no knowledge Sonnta_g_Repor_t i in.S__ Service, Ltd.
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1 as to its source and can't authenticate it beyond the 2 witness' ability to do so f rom the witness stand.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I'm curious about 4 where you got it, but I don't think that's significant 5 as far as the record is concerned or when you received 6 it.
$~
7 I think there's a sufficient identification, Mr.
8 Gallo, as being a copy of the originals that he saw.
9 MR. GALLO: Well, if I understand the offer 10 at this point, apparently this is a Xerox of two notes, 11 and -- well, two notes directed to Mr. Martin, and the 12 offer is being limited to just the handwritten notes and 13 not the typed notes.
l l 14 MR. GUILD: I don' t think it's typed, Joe, l
15 but you're right: not Mr. Rolan's.
16 MR. GALLO: You're right. It's printed.
17 But I have a different objection with respect to 18 the admissibility of the document.
19 It seems to me that this whole line of inquiry that l
20 Mr. Guild has conducted is irrelevant to the proceeding.
21 I didn't object earlier because I thought it was i
22 appropriate, since -- given the f act that the Board had 23 provided what has been marked as Intervenors' 84, it was l 24 appropriate to inquire into it.
25 But all that Mr. Guild has proven by his
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1 questioning of this witness is that the trained 2 investigator f rom OI is better at ferreting out the 3 guilty party than the investigative talents of Mr. Rolan 4 and Mr. DeWald, and that's not at issue here.
l 5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, my understanding of 6 what Mr. Guild is offering is the reaction of management 7 to a threat by craft against QC.
8 How that fits into the entire pattern I don' t think 9 we're prepared to evaluate now.
10 But I think that's the relevant part of it. I 11 don' t see anything else that's relevant, and it seems to 12 have some relevance.
O' 13 MR. GALLO: Well, I don't know how Mr.
l l 14 DeWald's reaction or nonreaction, as testified to by the 15 witness, and the reaction that-was described by Mr. --
16 of Mr. Rolan by the witness bears on harassment and 17 intimidation of QC Inspectors.
18 MR. GUILD: Perhaps that's the problem, Mr.
19 Chairman. He still hasn't gotten the message yet.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Mr. Guild, I don' t l 21 think we need argumentation. I'm trying to minimize the l 22 argumentation.
23 I think it's clear that Mr. Guild is going to be 24 alleging that the reaction of management was somewhat
] 25 negative to this incident and that it reflects an l
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1 overall reaction or overall posture with regard to QC 2 Inspectors. ,
1 3 On the other hand, you may find, on your behalf, 4 that their reaction indicates something in management's ;
1 5 favor.
6 So, you know, I don't think we ought to get into 7 the argumentation, but I think it has some limited .<
8 relevance to that issue. So on those grounds it's 9 admissible.
10 If you wish to voir dire further on this because of 11 the authenticity or any other problems with it, you may 12 do so; but I think you're satisfied now as to what the 13 document represents. ,
14 MR. GALLO: Well, I don' t need any voir dire 15 on authenticity because I have an opportunity to ask him 16 questions directly at this point. I understand Mr.
17 Guild has rested.
l 18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
19 So we'll admit the document. Whatever arguments i
20 can be made for or against, we'll hear them on brief.
i 21 So Document 83, Intervenors' Exhibit 83, is 22 admitted -- I'm sorry, Mr. Berry. I didn't think you 23 were really that involved.
l
- 24 MR. BERRY
- No objection.
(} 25 THE WITNESS: Can I take a break at this Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 time?
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: So we' re receiving 3 Intervenors' Exhibit 83.
4 (Intervenors' Exhibit No. 83 for 5 identification was thereupon received in 6 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No. 83 7 in evidence.)
8 MR. GALLO: Wait a minute. You need the 9 Board's approval.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We'll take a break.
11 MR. GUILD: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman. We can 12 excuse the witness. I just want to clear up some other 13 dangling matters.
14 My notes don' t show 82 received, Mr. Chairman. I 15 ask that it be received in evidence.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I noted that we did I
i 17 receive it.
18 MR. GUILD: All right, sir.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, 82 is in.
l 20 MR. GUILD: Fine. Thank you.
21 Our status right now is that Mr. Gallo was kind l
22 enough to furnish the full copy of the evaluation of his 23 exhibits.
24 I would reserve the privilege of reviewing the
(} 25 attachments and perhaps offering the entire document at I
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1 a later point after counsel can confer.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's fine.
3 I would think that since they' re all presumably 4 company documents, that you won't need the witness in 5 case there's any objection to those because of 6 admission, so --
7 MR. GUILD: Fine.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- we'll still reserve until 9 we hear further f rom you on Exhibit 80.
10 MR. GUILD: One more thing, Judge.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: One more thing, Mr. Guild?
12 MR. GUILD: 73 -- my notes are unclear on 13 whether or not it was received, and I'd ask --
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, we received 73.
15 MR. GUILD: Fine. Thank you.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We're in recess, now.
17 MR. MILLER : Your Honor, may I make one more 18 statement?
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Is this on the record?
20 MR. MILLER: Yes, I would like this on the 21 record.
22 I would ask the NRC Staff to review again their 23 discovery responses.
24 It's apparent to me that this document, which Mr.
(} 25 Guild received anonymously, can have come from only one Sonntag Repor_ ting Service _, Ltd.
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2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. I believe that's one 3 of the attachments to the --
4 MR. MILLER: I expect it is, but --
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. I didn't get the 6 attachments --
7 MR. MILLER: I know that.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- so that's why I couldn' t 9 show it to counsel.
10 MR. MILL ER : No. I'm not being critical of 11 the Board in any respect.
q 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes.
\/
13 MR. MILLER: But the system has broken down.
14 We are given some documents in discovery by the 15 Staff, and other documents magically appear in Mr.
16 Guild's office in an envelope sent to him anonymously.
17 Talk about being ambushed or surprised or whatever.
18 We just -- I don' t know how we can prepare for 19 these sorts of events when apparently the Staff is 20 speaking through Mr. Berry and Miss Chan on an official 21 basis and unofficially they send documents to some 22 parties but not to others.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm satisfied that Mr. Berry 24 doesn' t have -- nor does Miss Chan -- a hand in 25 withholding these documents.
(]}
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1 These are OI documents, and I believe they're not 2 even -- weren' t even informed as to these 3 investigations.
4 Is that so, Mr. Berry?
5 MR. BERRY: That's absolutely correct, your 6 Honor.
7 We have the Intervenors' representation that it may 8 have come from someone within the NRC Staff, and --
9 MR. GUILD: No, sir, you don't at all. My 10 only representation is that I don't know where they came 11 from. They were received anonymously. It's Mr.
12 Miller's speculation that they came f rom a particular O 13 source.
14 I would say I feel as ambushed as Mr. Miller does.
7 15 Perhaps in this instance I have a little bit of an 16 advantage because I have this piece of paper, but the 17 Staff never disclosed this document to me in discovery.
f '
18 I'm as much in the dark as Applicant is about these new 19 revelations f rom the NRC file. They keep coming up.
20 MR. BERRY: Staff counsel had no previous 21 knowledge of this investigation.
22 To my knowledge, there's been no authorized
, 23 disclosure by the Staff of these documents to anyone, l
l 24 with the possible exception of the Board. I can't even l
l 25 state that.
[}
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1 As f ar as how they came into the possession of the 2 Intervenors, I just -- I just am not in a position to 3 say.
4 MR. MILLER : I would like to request on the 5 record that the additional attachments -- or exhibits 6 that are on the last page of Intervenors' No. 84 be 4
7 turned over to the parties.
8 There's an interview of Mr. Martin and others, and 9 I don't see any reason why those should be withheld at i 10 this point.
11 MR. BERRY: Well, as I understand, these are 12 documents in the possession of the Office of 13 Investigations, who are not accountable to the Office of 14 the Executive Legal Director.
15 I am not -- I will relay that request, but I cannot 16 represent that even I can have access to these I
17 documents.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
i
( 19 Let me retract. I really don't believe now, from 20 looking at the list of exhibits, that this was one of 21 the attachments to the report --
22 MR. BERRY: It appears that it is, your l
l 23 Honor.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- because --
(} 25 MR. GALLO: It might be two or three.
i l
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, that's the point.
2 This says " Attachment 1" on the bottom or " Attachment 3 I" --
4 MR. MILLER : Right.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- and it looks like it's 6 got three different items together, whereas the list of 7 exhibits in the report has, as Items 2 and 3, 8 handwritten notes. I assume these are the two notes.
9 It doesn't say anything about this memorandum of 10 Mr. Polan's, so I would think it really came from some 11 other place. It may have come f rom the NRC, but it s
12 certainly wasn't in that form as part of the report, 13 from looking at the list of exhibits.
14 So it's hard to point the finger at anyone or 15 really trace that.
16 I would doubt that Mr. Rolan sent that to the 17 Intervenors.
18 (Laughter.)
19 That's, of course, another possibility, perhaps 20 humorous.
21 (Laughter.)
22 But we just can' t make any judgment.
23 MR. BERRY: I would only add finally, your 24 Honor, that when the Staff and certainly Staff counsel
(} 25 discloses documents, it discloses documents to the Sonntag Rep ~orting Service, Ltd.
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1 Applicant as well as the Intervenors, and there's not --
2 or to the Intervenors and the Applicant.
3 So Staff counsel is not engaged in selective 4 disclosure.
5 MR. MILLER: I do not mean to imply that 6 Staff counsel has.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Why don' t we take our 8 recess now, and we'll return in 10 minutes.
9 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which 10 the proceedings were resumed as followss) 11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We' re back on the record.
12 Mr. Gallo will begin his cross examination.
13 CROSS EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. GALLO:
15 0 Mr. Martin, do you have Intervenors' 83 before you?
16 A It's this?
17 (Indicating.)
18 0 Yes.
19 Now, is my understanding correct that the portion 20 of this page on the extreme right-hand side that starts 21 out, "Please inspect welds somewhere else," et cetera --
22 was that a separate note that you found in the diesel 23 generator room?
24 A Yes, it was.
(} 25 0 And where did you find this one; on the floor or up by Sonntag_Repotting_Serrice,_Ltd, Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 the hanger?
2 A That note I believe was on the floor.
3 Q And is the -- in the center of the page, there's a note 4 that starts out, " Dearest Opie."
5 Is that -- and it ends with the word " picky."
6 Is that the second note that you found in the 7 diesel generator room?
8 A Yes. That was up above on the --
9 Q That was on one of the hangers?
10 A On the hanger, yes.
11 Q And before today had you seen the note on the lef t-hand
, 12 side that has "F. Rolan" stamped at the bottom of it?
13 A Yes, I have seen that.
14 Q What were the circumstances that you had seen this 15 previous to today?
16 A At the time of the incident, I was allowed to look at 17 what was written up on it, and this was an attachment.
18 Also I believe it was part of what the NRC i
19 investigator had on file.
I 20 Q Now, did you say that you were -- when you said that 21 "this was an attachment," you mean this entire sheet 22 that's marked " Attachment 1"?
23 A Yes, si r.
24 0 So that you had seen this -- let me call or characterize 25 this sheet as a " composite," because it appears to be a
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1 Xerox of three different pieces of paper.
i 2 Is that your understanding?
3 A Yes, it is.
I 4 Q And you had seen this composite previous to your 5 testimony today; is that correct?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And you had seen it in a -- at the time of the incident 8 or shortly af ter the incident because you were permitted 9 to look at the files by whom?
10 A I believe Irv. When he let me know what was done about 11 the whole situation, I looked through it and viewed it.
12 O Now, what did he let you look at?
13 A There was just a little statement written up, explaining 14 what had happened and what was done, and this was an 15 attachment to it.
, 16 0 Was this a memorandum that had been written?
17 A Yes, something of that type, i
18 0 Was it Mr. DeWald's file on this incident that you 1
19 looked at?
20 A I'm not sure.
21 Q But you do recall it was a memorandum, and this was 22 attached to it?
23 A Yes.
24 Q Do you recall anything of who the memorandum was to?
No.
O 25 A So n n t a g_R epo r_ti.n g_S e r v_i_c e ,_Lt d .
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V 1 Q Do you know who signed the memorandum?
2 A No.
3 0 You just remember seeing it in that context?
4 A Yes.
5 Q Did the OI inspector show you this document when you 6 were interviewed?
7 A Yes.
8 Q That is, Intervenors' 83?
9 A Yes.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
11 As a composite like this or in a different version?
12 THE WITNESS: I only remember seeing Exhibit 13 83, the notes, a composite copy, whatever.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
15 So that you did see it in this form with the three 16 items in a composite when the NRC inspector showed it to 17 you; is that so?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes.
19 It was also in this form when the memorandum was 20 put out recently just af ter the incident, when it was 21 documented that this was the -- part of the original.
22 BY MR. GALLO:
23 Q And I believe you testified that the NRC investigator 24 had indicated that he had obtained what I'll refer to as
(} 25 Intervenors' 83 f rom the flies someplace.
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1 Am I recalling your testimony correctly?
2 A Yeah. He just said that he had gotten there and he was 3 going through his files and he found this -- this out 4 and wanted to investigate it, it had never been 5 investigated, so he wanted to investigate it.
6 0 What was your understanding as to what files he was 7 referring to?
8 A I didn' t bother to ponder that point.
9 0 Do you think -- do you have any reason to believe that 10 it was his own files, as opposed to files -- Comstock 11 files?
12 A I cannot --
O 13 0 You just don't recall?
14 ' You just don' t know?
15 A I don' t know. I don't have any idea where it came from.
16 0 Now, as I recall, when you found these notes in the 17 diesel generator room, you brought them to Mr. DeWaldt 18 is that correct?
19 A Yes.
20 0 Did you do that almost immediately or -- af ter you found 21 them or did you wait until your visit was over?
22 A Immediately when I found them, I brought them in.
1 23 0 You gave him the two notes?
24 A Yes.
25 0 What did you ask him to do, if anything?
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1 A I made no request for any action to take -- to take 2 place.
3 Q Did you just silently hand them to him and say nothing?
4 A Well, I -- I just said that, "Some guys are getting 5 upset out there," and gave them to him.
6 0 What was your --
7 A It was --
8 0 -- your state of mind when you gave the notes to DeWald?
9 A I kind of laughed about it.
10 Q And why was that?
11 A Oh, it was just a -- a situation that we talk about but, 12 you know, you don't expect to see, I guess. I guess 13 that was the reason.
14 Q Well, what do you mean, "we talk about but don' t expect 15 to see"? What do you mean by that?
16 A You know, you read 10 CFR 50 and you read, "If such 17 harasses you," such as that, and people tell you, "If 18 anybody harasses you," you know -- it's --
19 Q And why did you find this particular instance amusing?
20 A Because this situation happened to me.
21 Q Well, I would expect that you -- weren't you alarmed 22 that you had found these threatening notes?
23 Did you fear for your own safety?
24 Now I'm talking about at the time that you brought
(} 25 the notes to DeWald.
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O 1 A No.
2 0 Why not?
3 A Because I felt I knew the welders' feelings and I could 4 understand how they would be upset, and at that point I 5 felt that they were not looking to hurt me but just to 6 blow off some steam.
7 Q If you made no request of DeWald at the time you brought i
8 him the notes, why did you bring them to him? Why did 9 you bring the notes to him?
10 A It's -- it's actually a violation of 10 CFR 50, and as 11 an inspector, I'm required to report such items.
12 0 So you were essentially reporting this incident to O 13 DeWald?
14 A Yes.
15 0 Would you have considered -- at this point in time, did 16 you consider the matter any differently than if you'd 17 have found the notes and someone else had been named in 18 them besides yourself?
19 A I don' t know of anybody else that has ever had this --
20 well, I think I took it lighter than if somebody else
- 21 would have gotten attacked. I think I took it lighter.
22 0 Now, you testified as to DeWald's reaction when you 23 handed him the notes.
24 I believe you said he had -- if I'm i
(} 25 rischaracterizing your testimony, you tell me -- he Sonntag_Repor ti_ng Service,_Ltd.
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92 83 O l I didn't show any reaction.
l 2 Is that a fair statement?
3 A Very little; just kind of interested and concerned, but 4 nothing of great magnitude. I mean, you know, he 5 didn ' t --
6 Q How did he reflect this concern to you?
7 A Well, he did give me an assurance that everything was 8 going to be all right and they were going to work out 1
9 the problem and get to the bottom of everything.
i, 10 0 So he told you at this time that he was going to look 11 into it and get to the bottom of it; is that correct?
12 A Yes.
13 Q He assured you that everything would be all right; he
. 14 told you that, too?
15 A In maybe not those exact words, but that was the 16 impression I received.
17 Q Did he tell you anything more that you can recall?
, 18 A No, I don't recall any other specifics.
19 0 All right.
20 Did you tell DeWald at that time that you weren't 21 alarmed by the notes and that you didn't consider the 22 matter to be a personal -- a serious personal threat?
23 A Yes, I did.
24 0 You told him that?
25 A Yes.
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'() I 1 Q Did you indicate to DeWald whether or not you considered 1 2 the welders who may have been involved to be violent 3 r.en? j l
4 A I may have said something to that effect.
5 Q And what's your recollection of what you said on that 6 score or what you told DeWald on that score?
7 A That I -- I didn' t f eel that my lif e was in danger and 8 that, I guess --
9 Q Did you offer any opinion as to whether you thought the 10 welders involved might be violent individuals?
11 A No.
12 0 Now, did you have an opinion at the time of whether you 13 thought any of the welders involved were violent 14 individuals? ,
15 A Well, I f elt they weren' t. I mean, I just didn' t think 16 that they were going to actually do anything physical.
17 I didn't believe that.
18 0 Was that based on your socializing with them during the 19 course of your working?
20 A Yes.
21 0 What form did this socializing take?
22 A Well, I'd take breaks with them sometimes, and we'd just 23 talk about things. Sometimes I'd sit down with them and 24 explain, you know, what I expected out of them.
(} 25 But, see, the problem was at this point there had l
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() 1 1 not been any inspections taking place in this particular
, 2 area, so we were kind of out of touch. We had been out 3 of touch for a long time and --
4 Q Let me interrupt you.
5 You say, "We had been out of touch."
6 Who were you referring to?
7 A Me and the craft.
8 0 I see.
9 A So, you know, that's probably where a lot of the 10 problems really originated.
11 0 Did you ever stop down at the Meeting Place with these 12 welders and have a beer?
O 13 A No.
14 0 Now, what's your understanding as to what DeWald did 15 next after you had given him the notes and you had this 16 discussion that we've talked about?
i 17 A He went down to Frank's office and explained what had 18 happened.
19 0 This is Mr. Rolan?
20 A Irv -- yeah. Irv explained to Frank Rolan.
21 0 Did you go with him at that time?
i 22 A I -- I believe I did. I'm -- I can' t say for sure.
t 23 0 Were you present when DeWald then explained to Mr. Rolan 24 about the notes?
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1 present.
2 Q When you had testified earlier about Mr. Rolan's 3 reaction to finding out about these notes, was it that 4 particular instance you were testifying tot when you 5 accompanied DeWald to that meeting?
6 A Yes.
7 Q And how did Rolan react?
8 I think you've testified that he indicated some 9 concern.
10 Could you describe better for me just how he did 11 indicate that concern?
12 A I just -- he said, "Let's get these people in here and 13 talk to them. " He said, "We'll get this" - "We're 14 going to get this straightened out, and it's not going 15 to happen again."
16 0 And what happened next after that conversation between 17 DeWald and Rolan which you attended?
18 A Well, Frank Rolan said that he was going to get the 19 craf t together and have a meeting with them, so me and 20 Irv left. I believe we had a few words about it. Then 21 I went about some other duties.
22 Frank Rolan later that af ternoon had a meeting with 1 23 the crew and I guess it was the Area General Foreman and 24 foreman and steward, whatever.
25 I believe Irv DeWald was also present at that
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2 Q Af ter you and DeWald lef t Rolan's office, did you talk 3 -- did you and he talk about the substance of the 4 conversation with Rolan?
5 A No. I don't think anything was mentioned about that 6 particular meeting together.
7 I think Irv just kind of re-emphasized that -- that 8 Frank was going to talk to the craft. I think we talked 9 about -- he suggested at that time, I believe, that he 10 wanted to take me out of the area, and I kind of 11 disagreed with that. I felt I should stay in the area.
12 But later I mentioned that I changed my mind.
13 But that was basically all that we discussed.
14 Q Did you -- at the time that DeWald first mentioned about 15 transferring you out of the area, did you have an 16 understanding as to why he wanted to do that?
17 A Yeah. It was for my own protection, in his words.
18 0 He was worried about you being injured by whoever made 19 these threats, perhaps?
20 A No, I don' t think that was it.
21 I think just the confrontation part and getting 22 along with the craf t was his main concern.
23 0 You don't think he was concerned for your [=rsonal 24 safety?
I'm sure he was Q 25 A Well, no, I'm not saying that. ,
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O 1 concerned.
2 0 You think he was concerned?
'3 A Yes.
4 0 Do you think that might have been part of the motivation 5 for transferring you -- nuggesting that you should 6 transfer f rom that particular assignment?
7 A I suspect it could be, you know. I'm --
8 0 You were not concerned?
9 A I -- I feel it was just the fact that he wanted to not 10 have any more conf rontations which would cause more 11 problems, which, of course, we don' t want.
12 Q Now, you testified that you initially didn't want a J 13 transfer f rom the assignment but then you changed your 14 mind.
15 What caused you to change your mind?
16 A Well, the attitude of the craft changed.
17 I thought that they would kind of like shake hands 18 and forget the whole thing, but they were -- continued 1
19 to be pretty upset about what had happened and that I 20 had brought it to management's attention of the actions 21 that they -- that they did.
22 0 Now, who are you referring to when you say "the craf t"?
L 23 A R. V. Cook's crew.
24 0 That would be all of the welders that were ultimately 25 interviewed by Mr. Rolan?
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1 A Yes.
1 2 0 In what way did they convey to you the notion that maybe 3 it would be better if you were transferred out?
4 Did they threaten you at that time?
5 A No, no.
6 Q Just what was the -- what attitude did they evidence 7 that caused you to change your mind about being 8 transferred?
9 A Pardon me?
10 What -- I didn' t understand.
11 Q Yes.
12 What was there about the conduct of these welders 13 that caused you to --
14 A Oh, okay.
15 0 -- change your mind?
16 A Okay.
17 Q Are you having trouble hearing me?
18 A No. I just missed the -- When you said " conduct," I 19 thought you meant conduct of the management instead of
- 20 the welders.
21 They just -- it's -- the electricians, of course, 22 are union; and it's like if you pick on one, you pick on 23 all of them.
24 If you -- if -- if you, say, report something to i
25 management, it's kind of like -- a crude comparison
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1 would be like the Mafia, you know. You resolve your 2 differences between yourselves; but if you bring it to 3 management, then you're an outsider.
4 I think they kind of -- well, " kind of," nothing.
5 They labeled me as -- branded me as somebody that 6 they're not going to associate with. So I thought if 7 they' re going to be that way, there's no use me going 8 through a bunch of grief going through that and trying 9 to resolve things; it would be better if I was just 10 taken out.
11 0 You felt ostracized; is that it?
12 A Yes, that's the word f or it.
13 0 You no longer had the more -- the social relationship 14 that you described earlier with these people?
15 A Right.
16 0 And then did you subsequently request DeWald to give you 17 another assignment?
l 18 A He was -- he was going to do that anyway.
19 I mean, it was kind of a -- I think the day after, j 20 he -- I don' t know if he called me in or I went to see 21 him, but it was kind of like we both said, "Okay.
22 Let's" -- not, "We're going to transfer you." He didn't j 23 come in and say, "Okay. I'm going to transfer you." I l 24 didn' t come in and say to him, "I'm not going out there 25 anymore."
l 1
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1 It was kind of like we were talking about the 2 situation and I felt, "Well, I don' t think I should be 3 out there." He said, "Well, I was thinking about that, 4 too. I think we ought to take you out of there," so 5 that's basically how that came about.
6 Q Do you know who replaced you on that assignment?
- 7 A I believe Don Crispino remained in there. I'm not sure 8 who else took my place. I don' t remember.
9 0 What job function were you assigned to -- or reassigned 10 to?
11 A I don' t remember.
12 0 Was it -- were they inspection duties?
13 A Yes, I believe so.
14 0 Inspection duties --
15 A Yes. 3 16 0 -- in the field?
17 A Yes.
18 Q In the field?
19 A Yes.
I 20 0 Now, did you first become aware of the OI -- I believe 4
21 you did testify that you first became aware of the OI
> 22 investigation when you were interviewed by the 23 investigatort is that correct?
! 24 A Yes.
25 0 I think you testified that "everybody," I think
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9292 referring to the -- to your fellow QC Inspectors, 2 disapproved of Comstock's investigation into this 3 matter.
4 Is that a -- am I recalling your testimony 5 correctly?
6 A Yes.
7 Q Now, at the -- when did Rolan have this meeting with the 8 welders that were involved?
9 A The same day.
10 0 The same day?
11 A That afternoon.
12 0 And were you subsequently briefed about the results of O 13 those -- of those discussions with those welders?
! 14 A Yes, I was.
15 0 Who brief ed you?
- 16 A Frank Rolan and Irv DeWald, and I believe Joe Neese was l 17 there, also.
I 18 0 Joe who?
19 A Joe Neese, f 20 0 Who is he?
21 A He's the Area GF. He's the highest-ranking craf t person l
22 out there as a union electrician.
l 23 0 So he's the Area General Foreman?
f 24 A Yes.
I 25 0 And what -- who carried the discussion?
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1 Was it Mr. Rolan or one of the other people?
2 A It was Mr. Rolan.
3 Q What did he tell you?
- 4 A He described that he.had talked to the people, and I'm 5 -- I can' t really recall what the content of the meeting 6 was.
j 7 Q Well, you had told him by this time your suspicions that 8 Mr. Ott might have been the individual who wrote the i 9 notes, hadn' t you?
10 A I'm not sure at what point in time I did let them know 11 that I had suspicions that it was any certain welder.
12 I just kind of -- I believe I was asked who the l 13 welders were in that group, and I think f ron, that I
14 standpoint it was taken not that I had come up and said, 15 "I suspect these three welders. "
16 I was asked who the three welders were in the I 17 group, and then it was taken f rom there.
18 Q All right.
19 Let's -- now, when you brought the notes to DeWald, l
20 had you -- did you identify to DeWald the names of the 21 three welders you suspected and Mr. Ott in particular?
22 A He had knowledge of them. Whether or not I -- I pointed 23 them out to him -- I don' t think that was the case. He 24 just --
25 0 Well, DeWald had knowledge of who the welders were that t
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l worked in the area; is that correct?
2 A Yes.
3 Q Wasn' t it more than the three welders that you had 4 reference to in your testimony previously?
5 Were there more than three welders on this crew?
6 A No. There were just three welders.
7 Q There were just the three welders, all right.
8 And DeWald knew who the welders were at the time 9 you brought him the notes; right?
10 A No.
i 1] Q He didn't?
12 How did he find that out?
- 13 A From Frank Rolan.
i 14 0 Was that information ascertained when you and DeWald 15 went to see Rolan after your initial meeting with 16 DeWald?
17 A No.
18 0 Explain the circumstances of how DeWald found out who 19 the welders were, your understanding of it.
20 A Well, I guess the thing that comes to mind the most is 21 since I had not been in that area for quite some time, I 22 only knew that one welder was Ron Ott. The other two 23 welders -- I knew them, but I didn' t realize that they 24 were in this area.
25 So it was something that I didn' t bring up
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1 specifically. It was something that they looked into 2 the -- their manpower list and said, "Okay. These guys 3 are welders," and just kind of --
4 Q So they looked at their roster of assignments, and they 5 could tell who the welders were in the auxiliary -- or 6 the diesel generator room; is that correct?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Did you single out Mr. Ott as the possible author of 9 these notes at the time you met with Mr. Rolan on the 10 first occasion?
11 A At that meeting I believe I might have expressed that.
12 Q Now, after Rolan had conducted the discussion with all 13 the welders involved plus the supervisors and he was 14 briefing you as to the results, what, if anything, did 15 he say about whether or not Mr. Ott was the person 16 responsible for authoring these notes?
17 A No attempt was made at all to pinpoint any individual.
18 I think they just brought out that -- I really 19 don' t think they were concerned with an individual.
20 They were just concerned with dealing with the --
21 the crew as a whole and in such a way to give fair 22 warning to any individual in that crew that, "If it l 23 happens again," you know, "we'll look into it," or 24 something.
25 0 Are you sure that you had told Rolan, prior to the
[}
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O I meeting with these welders, that you suspected Ott?
2 A No, I'm not. ,
i 3 0 How did -- did Rolan tell you at the debriefing -- let l 4 me use that term -- that he gave you about the meeting 5 with the welders that he made no attempt to single out 6 any particular suspect; that he was just simply talking 7 to the group as a whole?
8 A No, he never made that implication verbally.
9 0 Well, how did you come by that understanding?
10 A I can' t recall any type of -- of conversation leaning 11 towards finding any one particular individual, 12 responsible individual.
13 I just can recall them bringing the whole group in 14 and talking to all of them, telling them the seriousness 15 of the -- of the problem and -- and that it was serious.
16 I'm pretty sure they mentioned that they would have 17 the notes examined by a handwriting analyst.
18 0 Who told you that?
19 A I'm not sure.
20 Q But you recall someone telling you that?
21 A I recall that being part of a conversation.
22 0 Was it this debriefing conversation, do you recall?
23 A I believe it was.
24 0 You don't -- do you remember anything more about it than
(} 25 that?
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1 A Not much more. It's been a long time.
2 0 Did you ask Rolan if he had found out who wrote the 3 note?
4 A No.
5 Q That's the debriefing session now I'm referring to.
6 A No.
7 0 What happened next af ter the debriefing session was 8 concluded?
9 A I believe that -- I believe Frank and Irv, myself and 10 Joe Neese got together, and they just explained that 11 they did talk to the craf t and that they didn't want any 12 more confrontations; they wanted to get along and basic C~S) 13 rhetoric like that.
t 14 0 Was this the second meeting or was this a discussion at 15 the same debriefing meeting?
l l 16 A No. This was the second meeting.
i 17 Q The second meeting -- when did that occur? How soon 18 afterwards?
19 A I think that was the next day -- very late afternoon or 20 the next day.
i j 21 Q And what was the conclusion of that meeting as it 22 affected your work assignments?
l 23 A As it affected my work assignments, at that point I 24 believe it didn't.
(} 25 0 What was the purpose of the meeting if you had already l
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V 1 discussed the results of the discussion with the 2 inspectors -- I mean, with the other welders the day 3 before?
4 A That -- okay. I think we' re not on the same -- that was
^ the review of the meeting with the welders, is this 6 second meeting.
7 Well, first I met with Irv.
8 0 Yes.
9 A Okay. We talked about it.
10 Then me and Irv went down to Frank's office, and we 11 talked about it. Then Frank met with the welders --
- 12 0 Yes.
13 A -- okay?
14 And then after that, we all -- Frank and Irv and 15 myself and I believe Joe Neese got together and just --
l 16 0 I see.
! 17 A -- kin'd of -- to just clear the air and say, "Okay. We l
18 talked with the welders, and we told them that if that l
19 happens again, they 'll all be terminated. "
20 I believe they said that the whole crew would be l
1 21 terminated and stuff like that.
22 0 Who made that statement at the meeting that the welders 23 were told that if it happens again, the whole crew would l
l l 24 be terminated?
(} 25 A Frank Rolan would say something like that.
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l Q Do you recall Frank Rolan saying that?
2 A Something to that effect.
3 Q Did you see any memorandum at that time at the meeting 4 that was written by someone?
5 A Yeah. I believe that's the time I saw the memorandum 6 with this Exhibit 83 attached.
7 (Indicating.)
8 O And do you recall now, after exploring this in some 9 depth, who wrote that memorandum?
10 A I believe Irv DeWald did.
11 Q And do you recall: Was it -- was the subject of the 12 memorandum a summary of what you've testified to here?
13 A Yes.
14 Q N ow , you testified in answer to Mr. Guild that your 15 fellow inspectors disapproved of the Comstock 16 investigation.
17 Am I recalling your testimony correctly?
18 A Yes.
l 19 0 Was this -- and you yourself -- at least you testified 20 at the time that you were satisfied with the 21 investigation; is that correct?
l 22 A I was -- I was satisfied, yes.
l 23 But I did have the impression that, you know, they 24 didn't want to build it up any more than what they felt
{} 25 it was. That's all.
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1 Q Do you recall any of your colleague QC Inspectors 2 indicating disapproval of the way the Comstock 3 investigation was handled at the time of the 4 investigation?
5 A Yeah. There was mainly disapproval because they felt 6 that all the craf t individuals involved -- namely, the 7 whole crew -- should have been fired.
8 Q This was an opinion voiced at the time --
9 A Yes.
10 0 -- of the incident?
11 By the way, when was that?
12 THE WITNESS: The date?
13 MR. GALLO: Well, if you can -- if you can 14 somehow pin it down.
15 MR. GUILD: I believe the record already pins
- 16 it down f rom ref erence to the OI investigation report, l
! 17 Mr. Gallo.
l 18 MR. GALLO: Perhaps -- yes.
19 BY MR. GALLO:
20 Q Do you have the OI investigation report there?
21 A No, I do not.
22 0 I'll give it to you.
23 It says the incident occurred on September 19, 24 1983.
(} 25 Would that be about right? ,
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1 (Indicating.)
2 A Yes, yes, it would, because it was --
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's also the date that 4 Mr. Rolan stamped that in on Exhibit 83, which is a 5 further confirmation.
6 MR. GALLO: Your eyes are better than mine on 7 that one, your Honor. Okay.
8 BY MR. GALLO:
9 0 So on or about in September -- late September,1983, 10 some of the -- some of your fellow QC Inspectors thought 11 that the investigation had not been tough enough; is 12 that a fair statement?
13 A Yes.
14 JUDGE GRGSSMAN: By the way, I hesitate to 15 mention the time because you' re in the middle of 16 something, but --
17 ; MR. GALLO: All rig t. Let me see if I can 18 wrapupfthisonesubject--
19 5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, fine.
20 MR. GALLO: -- quickly.
?
! 21 I'm prepared to stop for the day on this topic --
I
. 22 or stop for the day and continue tomorrow morning.
{ 23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay, fine.
24 Let's find out f rom Mr. Berry whether we' re going f
25 to have preliminary matters tomorrow morning. We're Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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9302 1 starting at 10:00 with the witness because he can't make 2 it before 10:00. We've discussed this off the record.
3 MR. BERRY: Well, I hope to be in a position 4 first thing tomorrow morning to advise the Board what 5 the Staff is going to do.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The first thing in the j 7 morning?
8 MR. BERRY: Yes.
- 9 JUDGE GROSSMAN
- So why don' t we reconvene 10 about 20 of 10:00, except, Mr. Martin, we'll expect you 11 at 10:00.
12 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
O 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We'll recess until 14 tomorrow.
15 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, before you do 16 that --
l 17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm sorry. Mr. Guild?
18 MR. GUILD: It now appears that the document 19 that's been marked as Intervenors' Exhibit 84, the note 20 and attachment, is a Comstock document.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: You' re talking about 83 now?
l 22 MR. GUILD: 83, yes.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, but it was sent in that 24 form, also, to the NRC; so no one knows where it -- oh,
(} 25 okay. I'm sorry I cut you off, Mr. Guild. You're S_on n t a g R epo r_t i_n_g._S e r v i c e ,_Lt d .
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1 certainly entitled to get that memorandum and the 2 attachments from --
3 MR. GUILD: My only -- yes.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- Applicant, and I'm sure 5 they'll check with Mr. DeWald on that and have it for 6 you the first thing they can get it.
7 MR. GUILD: Yes.
8 MR. MILLER: I was ahead of Mr. Guild, and I 9 asked that the file be brought here tomorrow.
10 MR. GUILD: Thank you.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine. So we'll recess until 12 9:40 tomorrow morning.
O 13 (WHEREU PON , at the hour of 5:15 P. M., the 14 hearing of the above-entitled matter was 15 continued to the 30th day of July at the l
16 hour of 9:40 o' clock A. M.)
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NO PAGE NUMBER CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER
- ry This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED ST TES NUC, LEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of
NAME OF PROCEEDING: BRAIDWOOD STATION UNITS 1 6 2 COMMONWEALTil EDISON COMPANY (EVIDENTIARY IIEARING)
DOCKET NO.: 50-456/457-OL PLACE: JOLIET, ILLINOIS DATE: TUESDAY, JULY 29, 1986 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript -thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear I Regulatory Commission. j l
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(TYPED)h,hlltJ$ogf(b f G. Allen Sonntag )
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