ML20203A926
| ML20203A926 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Braidwood  |
| Issue date: | 07/11/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| OL, NUDOCS 8607170363 | |
| Download: ML20203A926 (137) | |
Text
- _ _ -
ORIGINAL _
O UN11ED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO:
BRAIDWOOD STATION 50-456/457-OL UNITS 1 6 2 Cubb!ONWEALTH EDISON C051PANY (EVIDENTIARY HEARING)
O LOCATION: JOLIET, ILLINOIS PAGES: 7515 - 7652 i
DATE: FRIDAY, JULY 11, 1986
/0l oki .,
ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
Offic:a! Reporters 444 North CapitolStreet
[lDR607170363 soo/11 Washington, D.C. 20001 "Docr
, a:,000 jj6 (202)347-3700 NATIONWIDE COVERAGE
l 7515 t
(:)
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA l l 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _x:
5 In the Matter of: :
6 : Docket No. 50-456 COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY : 50-457 7 :
(Braidwood Station, Units 1 :
i 8 and 2) :
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _X 9
l 10 Page: 7515 - 7652 11 College of St. Francis 500 North Wilcox Q 12 Joliet, Illinois 60431
, 13 Friday, July 11, 1986 14 .
15 The hearing in the above-entitled matter convened 16 at 8:00 A. M.
17 BEFORE:
- 18 JUDGE HERBERT GROSSMAN, Chairman 19 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board i U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 20 Washington, D. C. ,
21 JUDGE RICHARD F. COLE, Member, Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 22 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D. C.
23 JUDGE A. DIXON CALLIHAN, Member, 24 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission O 25 washington, D. C.
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O 1 APPEARANCES:
2 On behalf of the Applicant:
3 MICHAEL I. MILLER, ESQ.
ELENA Z. KEZELIS, ESQ.
4 Isham, Lincoln & Beale Three First National Plaza 5 Chicago, Illinois 60602 f
6 On behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory 7 Commission Staff:
8 ELAINE I. CHAN, ESQ.
GREGORY ALAN BERRY, ESQ.
9 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 7335 Old Georgetown Road 10 Bethesda, Maryland 20014 11 On behalf of the Intervenor:
12 ROBERT GUILD, ESQ.
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13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
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1 TESTIMONY OF JOHN DAVID SEEDERS I
i 2 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. GUILD: 7518
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The hearing is reconvened.
2 This is the 37th day of hearing.
3 Mr. Miller had concluded his direct examination and
- 4 now Mr. Guild will cross-examine the witness.
5 Mr. Seeders, you remain under oath.
6 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
- 7 JUDGE GROSSMAN
- Okay, fine.
8 MR. GUILD: Good morning, Mr. Seeders. ,
9 THE WITNESS: Good morning.
! 10 MR. GUILD: We've met before, of course.
i 11 For the record, my name is Bob Guild and I'm 12 counsel for Intervenors.
(])
l 13 CROSS EXAMINATION
! 14 BY MR. GUILD:
15 Q As I understand it, you still are employed by L. K.
16 Comstock, the engineering side of the house; is that 17 correct?
I 4
18 A Yes, sir.
- 19 Q And you work indirectly for the project engineer.
20 And is that Mr. Klena?
21 A Not at this time.
i 22 Q Oh, it isn't?
23 A The gentleman that's project engineer now is -- I just j 24 drew a blank. I can't think of his name.
i 25 0 It may come to you. If it does, it would be helpful.
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i 1 When was Mr. Klena replaced, if you recall, I 2 approximately?
Approximately two months ago.
3 A l 4 Q Okay. .
i j 5 And do I understand correctly the project engineer, i
l 6 Mr. Klena's replacement, in turn, reports to Mr. Frank
, 7 Rolan, the Comstock construction Project Manager?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q So indirectly you are under Mr. Rolan and his side of i
! 10 the house, correct --
J. 11 A Yes, sir.
, () 12 0 -- as , opposed to the QC side of the house?
I 13 When you formerly worked as a Level II Calibration i
I 14 Inspector, there you were under Mr. DeWald?
i l 15 A Yes, sir.
(
) 16 0 I take it that you are still in close physical 17 proximity?
18 Are you downstairs now where you used to be 19 upstairs before? Is that basically the way it works?
l 20 A I'm in a trailer now.
21 Q Okay.
I i 22 And -- and is that trailer on the site at 23 Braidwood?
l 24 A Yes, sir.
25 Q And just give me a notion:
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i 1 Is it the other side of the site from where the QC 2 people are or is it in close proximity?
3 A It's north of the engineering office.
4 Q And the engineering office, is that where the QC people 5 are as well?
i 6 A The QC people are upstairs adjacent to the engineering 7 office.
8 Q Okay. -
) 9 And just how far away from your trailer is that?
10 A Approximately 50 feet. .
i 11 Q Okay, j ({} 12 Real close, then?
I 13 A Yeah, it's close.
14 Q And do you have occasion to see your former colleagues, 15 who are Quality control Inspectors, on occasion?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q All right.
I 18 And do you recall an instance where, since your 19 transfer in October of '84, you, in sort of the normal i
20 course of affairs, ran into Mr. Don Coss?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q Okay.
I 23 And was that shortly after your transfer?
I e 24 Do you recall when it was?
(:) 25 A I don't recall the exact date.
{
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l 1 It was shortly after my transfer.
2 Q Okay.
3 Late '84, early '85, approximately?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 0 Okay.
6 Anil what happened, then, when you ran into Mr.
7 Coss?
8 A In passing, I said, "Hi," to him, you know, "How is it 9 going'," like you usually do to everybody on site, and I 10 didn't actually even stop. I just said, "How's it 11 going," and he said, " Things are going good"; and later l ] 12 I was informed by Mr. Coss that --
l 13 MR. MILLER: Your Honor, I'm going to object 14 and move to strike.
15 What the witness was informed by Mr. Coss I don't 16 believe is probative. .
17 Mr. Coss is going to be a witness here, j 18 MR. GUILD: He may, indeed, Mr. Chairman, and i 19 obviously it doesn't prove in fact what Mr. Coss did or l
20 knew.
21 It's simply what Mr. Seeders understood; but it's a 22 foundation question for what is examination to come.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. I understand there is 24 an objection to the statement going to prove the
- 25 contents of what Mr. Coss said, but as far as his saying c
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1 it, Mr. Seeders can relate the story.
2 BY MR. GUILD:
3 Q And what did Mr. Coss later tell you?
4 A Mr. Coss told me that he was not allowed to speak to me 5 anymore, and that if we were caught together anymore on 6 site, there would be some type of reprimand, or, in l
7 other words, we would be in trouble.
8 Q Okay.
9 Mr. Coss was a -- was a fellow QC Inspector when 10 you were a QC* Inspector, was he not?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 All right.
(]) Q 13 And you knew him at that time?
14 A Yes, sir.
- 15 0 And, I mean, you knew him on a friendly basis, I take 16 it?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 0 Okay.
19 And would you normally, even though you'd been 20 transferred and were not directly working with him, if 21 you encountered him on the site, briefly pause to 22 exchange pleasantries and talk?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 0 But on this particular occasion, you didn't do that?
\
1 0 25 You just said hello and then moved about your business; l
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1 right?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q And was that because there was a QC Manager in close ;
4 proximity to you and Mr. Coss?
5 A I noticed that Mr. Seese -- this took place at the QC 6 vault.
7 I noticed --
8 Q Comstock QC vault?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 I noticed that Mr. Seese was standing in the vault, 11 so I -- I didn't even stop. I just kept walking.
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12 0 Why didn't you stop? What did Mr. Seese' presence have
(]}
13 to do, if anything, with your action at the time?
14 A I felt that if'it was possible, Mr. Seese would try to 15 make a big deal out of me saying -- saying hi te Mr.
16 Coss, so I just -- I didn't want to cause any problems,
! 17 so I just kept going.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me, i 19 By the way, Mr. Coss is there at the company?
I 20 MR. MILLER: He certainly is.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: He's an employee of the 22 company?
23 MR. GUILD: Yes.
24 J0'GE GROSSMAN: I'm going to retract that 25 ruling.
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1 I think that's admissible, period, as an admission.
! 2 If you wish to bring Mr. Coss in, he's a company 3 employee.
4 Apparently what he said was within the scope of 5 what he was told, if what Mr. Seeders is saying is l 6 correct, and we'll put the ball in your court to bring i
7 him in and explain it away.
i 8 MR. MILLER: Well, your Honor, I don't -- I 9 don't believe that we are bound by the statements of l
10 every QC Inspector who happened to be employed by 11 Comstock.
12 I believe that admissions are restricted to
({}
13 officers, directors and managing agents, and Mr. Coss
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l 14 does not fall into that category.
i 15 MR. GUILD: I think it's much too restrictive
! 16 a view of what admissions constitute.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm not sure of this, but I 1
i 18 believe if it's within the scope of his employment --
19 and it appears from the testimony that it was told to
! 20 him within the scope of his employment -- that it may l
l 21 well be an admission of a party opponent.
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l 22 MR. MILLER: It's 801D2 of the Federal Rules.
1 23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes; I have it, yes.
l I 24 And look at D2, capital D, "A statement by his i
l 25 agent or servant concerning a matter within the scope of l
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} 1 his agency or employment may, during the existence of a 2 relationship"; and I might point out to you that that 3 was broadened somewhat from the Rules of Civil Procedure 4 that contained a section on admissions previously, and I 5 don't have a chance right now to read the legislative 6 background; but it seems to fit on all squares here, and 7 all it really does is put the ball in your court, Mr.
8 Miller.
9 You can call Mr. Coss and have him explain it away, 10 which is a reason for the rules on admissions not being i
11 within the hearsay rules.
12 MR. MILLER: Well, Mr. Coss --
(]}
l 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: So continue, Mr. Guild.
i 14 We've made our ruling; and continue.
15 MR. GUILD: All right, sir.
! 16 BY MR. GUILD:
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! 17 Q You observed Mr. Seese in close proximity to where you 18 and Mr. Coss were; is that right?
19 A Yes.
I 20 Q All right.
i 21 And I take it you were there on business? You J
l 22 were doing company work when you were in the vattit area?
23 A I was going to the bathroom at that time.
24 0 Okay. I guess that's -- I guess that's business.
25 And because you saw Mr. Seese, you -- you cut short Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 whatever interchange you and Mr. Coss had and limited it 1
2 only to hello?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q Okay.
5 And did you later learn that, in fact, as you put 6 it, Mr. Seese did make a big deal out of it?
7 A Mr. Coss told me that he was approached by Mr. Seese and 8 told that we should not be seen together or we would be 9 in trouble.
10 Mr. Seese indicated that he would go to my 11 superiors and seek reprisals or whatever.
12 0 That's what -- that's what Coss told you?
(])
13 A Yes, sir.
14 0 Okay.
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- 15 Did Mr. Seese ever come to you personally?
16 A No, sir.
17 Q All right.
18 And did you ever bring up the matter with your 19 superiors? ,
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q Okay.
22 And who did you talk to about it?
1 23 A I told my -- my boss, Charlie Sample, and he -- he was 24 very irritated about it.
i 25 I -- I believe that's as far as it went.
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1 Q What did you understand Mr. Sample did, if anything? )
2 A At that time we were all invited to -- to go over and 3 talk to Quality First on site. It was just a general 4 thing that everybody was doing at that time.
5 Mr. Sample indicated to me that he -- that he 6 had -- he had talked to Quality First about that 7 problem.
8 0 All right.
9 Did Quality First ever subsquently have any contact 10 with you about the matter?
11 A No, sir.
12 So you, during the course of your -- even after your
(} Q 13 transfer, understood that, in effect, I guess you were 14 being treated -- well, strike that.
15 Did you -- did you understand this incident to
, 16 reflect a continuing course of reprisal against you?
17 MR. MILLER: Well, I'm going to object, your 18 Honor.
, 19 First of all, it's an extremely leading question by 20 Mr. Guild, and it is extremely prejudicial in the 21 characterization of --
1 22 MR. GUILD: I'll rephrase, Mr. Chairman.
23 That's fine.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Rephrase it, please.
! ( 25 BY MR. GUILD:
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1 Q The word " reprisal" was one you raised first, Mr.
2 Seeders, and I'm really trying to summarize.
3 How did you understand the -- the -- what did you 4 understand from this event regarding Comstock's 5 management's relationship to you?
6 A I felt that I was still being harassed.
! 7 Q All right, sir.
, 8 Even after your transfer, Mr. Seeders, did you --
9i do you have any continuing fear that you might lose your 10 job?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q And does that -- well, for how long a period of time did
(}
13 such a concern or fear continue?
14 A I've always had that fear.
15 0 You have that fear today? .
4 16 A Yes, sir.
1
- 17 Q All right.
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! 18 When you were transferred, of course, you were 19 transferred at the same rate of pay with the same
! 20 contract; is that right?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q Okay.
23 But they did tell you that you were going to be 24 treated as a new employee and you were going to be i
25 subject to the 90-day probationary period?
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($) i 1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Did Mr. DeWald or others explain to you why it was 3 appropriate, in their judgment, for a veteran QC 4 Inspector, veteran employee of Comstock, to be treated 5 as if you were a probationary employee?
6 A No, sir.
7 Q He just told you that was going to be the case?
8 A He said that would be the way it is.
9 0 All right.
10 I take it, though, in light of your response to Mr.
11 Miller, that, in fact, as you understand it, your
(]) 12 performance has been found acceptable in,your new 13 position?
14 A Yes, sir, very acceptable.
15 Q Okay.
16 You related, and I won't repeat, generally you had 17 favorable reviews from your supervision?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 0 Okay.
20 You certainly have not been subject to any 21 disciplinary action because of your work in your new 22 position, have you?
23 A No, sir.
24 Q In effect, you got a promotion from the clerk position O
\' 25 to the Field -- Assistant Field Engineer job?
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Okay.
- 3 And I gather that that -- no raise in pay came with c
4 that promotion, did it?
5 A Yes, sir, right, no raise.
6 Q It didn't?
7 A No raise.
8 Q But a raise -- did you understand it as an increase in 9 responsibility and status?
10 A Yes, sir.
j 11 Q Okay.
12 And did you understand the transfer to the clerk
(}
13 job from the Level II QC Inspector to be, even though 14 you didn't lose pay, a demotion in status?
l i 15 A Definitely.
16 Q Okay.
17 Clerks generally being paid less than what Level II j 18 Inspectors were being paid?
i 19 A Yes, sir.
20 0 You weren't, because you were continued at the same i 21 rate?
i l 22 A I was expected to set at a desk all day long and shuffle 23 paper.
l 24 Q Okay.
( 25 Notwithstanding the promotion you got and the --
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1 and the good reviews you've gotten on the new job, you 2 just said you still felt like you might be in danger of 3 being fired; is that right?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q Now, do you recall when you and I first met?
6 I'm not asking for a date. I'm just asking:
7 Do you recall the circumstances?
8 A I can't remember our first meeting.
9 Q Okay.
10 Do you recall me calling you on the telephone?
11 A Yes, sir.
Okay.
Q 12 Q 13 And do you recall me telling you that I had had an 14 opportunity to see your August 17th letter after getting 15 it from the NRC files?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q All right.
18 And I think I probably called you on the job, 19 didn't I?
20 A I believe so, yes, sir.
21 Q All right.
f 22 Do you recall at a later time that I arranged to j 23 meet with you to talk about problems at Braidwood at a 24 restaurant in Joliet?
25 A Yes, sir.
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1 Q And do you remember that you didn't show up? Do you ,
2 remember that?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 0 Okay.
5 An'd do you remember me talking to you afterwards on 6 the telephone, after the -- after the time -- after the 7 time we had the --
8 A I believe I indicated I was afraid to meet with you.
9 0 Okay.
10 And I believe before we met at the restaura:nt, you i 11 told me that you knew of other Inspectors who had 12 concerns about the quality assurance program at
({}
13 Comstock?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 0 Okay.
16 And other Inspectors -- I'm not trying to put words 17 in your mouth, but -- so please tell me if this is not 18 correct -- but other Inspectors had raised concerns, as 19 you did in your August 17th letter, about harassment and 20 intimidation?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q And I think you may have even given me some names before 23 we first met face to face -- names of people that I 24 might call and ask, in any event?
O 25 A I'm -- I can't remember the names.
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1 Q Okay.
2 Do you recall that you did give me some names? I 3 asked you and you -- you provided them? You said, "You 4 might want to call so and so or so and so"?
5 A I can't remember the conversation.
6 Q Okay.
7 And do you -- do you remember that -- that one of 8 the things that I had asked you about was whether or not 9 you and some other fellows who might be interested in 10 talking to me could meet at this restaurant at the 11 particular occasion that --
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12 A Yes, sir.
(]}
13 0 -- this referred to?
14 And you didn't show up because you were afraid?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q Do you recall that you and I subsquently discussed the 17 fact that I was representing Intervenors in this 18 licensing case and that there were issues involving 19 quality assurance at Braidwo3d that were going to be 20 before these Judges, the Licensing Board?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q, Okay.
23 And that I was interested in bringing to their 24 attention your concerns about harassment and 25 intimidation at Comstock?
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q And that I was interested in bringing before the Board 3 concerns by any other Comstock Inspectors about 4 harassment and intimidation?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Do you remember that I asked if you would be willing to 7 prepare an affidavit to submit to the Nuclear Regulatory 8 Commission Judges? .
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q Okay.
11 And after talking to you on the phone several 12 times, I sent you a draft of an affidavit, didn't I?
(])
13 A Yes, sir.
14 Q And do you recall that we had had a conversation on the
! 15 phone where I read that affidavit to you line by line 16 and asked whether the contents were true and complete?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q And you basically told me that they were?
19 A' Right.
20 0 Do you recall that because of a deadline in making a 21 filing, I told you that I intended to -- to send the 22 affidavit in before you would have an opportunity to go 23 to a notary public and get it signed and returned t.o me; 24 it was a matter of days?
l 25 A Yes, sir. ,
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1 Q Okay.
2 And did you authorize me to do that in your name?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q Do you remember saying to me that -- in the conversation 5 when I said that I was -- intended to do that, that you 6 would get that affidavit signed -- you would find a 7 notary and get it signed, and send it back to me real 8 quick?
9 A At first I said yes.
10 Q Okay.
11 And you didn't, did you?
12 A No.
(])
13 Q Okay. ..
14 And why didn't you?
15 A I was afraid that -- I was still afraid that I would be 16 fired.
17 (Indicating.)
18 I just -- I was afraid that the reprisals would be 19 too -- too bad to sign something like that.
20 Q All right.
21 -
Now, I -- I think I probably had a long 22 conversation with you, and I think I said that -- told 23 you what your rights were under the law, and that you --
24 the NRC rules and federal law protected you from any 25 reprisals as a witness in a case, didn't I?
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q And -- and that didn't change your mind, did it?
I A No, sir.
4 Q All right.
5 And subsquently Mr. Miller asked you in your 6 deposition about that affidavit.
7 Do you recall that?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q And do you recall generally you -- you said what you 10 have said so far today, which was that it was true but 11 you were afraid to sign it?
12 A Yes, sir.
(]} '
13 Q Now, let me just ask you this question generally.
14 After all you went through, John, Mr. Seeders --
15 having written the August 17th letter, sticking your 16 neck out as much as you already had -- what made you i 17 think that just signing that affidavit was going to be 18 the straw that broke the camel's back, if you will?
19 A I -- I felt that I -- I had done my job, I felt that I 20 had done the right thing by writing a letter, and I felt 21 that it was up to Commonwealth Edison and the NRC to 22 { pursue the thing and -- and -- and find out the truth.
23 (Indicating.)
l 24 ' And I just -- I didn't want to -- I didn't want to 25 seem like -- I guess -- I guess I didn't want to seem i
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1 like I -- I wanted to keep pushing it.
2 I felt -- I felt writing the letter was part of my 3 job and my duty, and I felt that that should be enough 4 to fjnd the truth.
5 (Indicating.)
6 Q All right, sir.
7 You are appearing here today as a witness under 8 subpoena by Commonwealth Edison Company; isn't that 9 correct?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q All right, sir.
12 Now, let me turn the clock back and -- and let's go
(])
13 back to talk about the time when you were a Quality 14 Control Inspnctor.
15 I believe your -- your testimony reflects that you 16 joined Comstock in August of 1983; is that right?
17 A '82.
18 Q August of 1982 --
19 A Right.
20 0 -- right?
21 You told Mr. Miller that for a time you were a 22 Level I Inspector; right?
23 A Yes, sir.
! 24 Q All right.
25 And I think you said about six months.
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1 Does that sound like about the time before you got 2 your first certification?
3 A Approximately, yes, sir.
4 Q Before you got your first Level II certification?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q And I take it that first certification was in 7 calibration?
8 A Calibration.
9 Q And would that have been about the time, then, when you 10 got your calibration cert, when you took over the 11 calibration function at Comstock?
12 A Yes, sir.
(}
13 0 That makes it early 1983.
14 Is that about when you took over calibrations?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q All right, sir.
17 And who did you take over calibrations from, Mr.
18 Seeders?
19 A A lady named Lisa Oakley.
20 Q Okay.
21 And was Ms. Oakley doing all the calibrations work 22 before you did?
23 A Yes, sir.
l 24 Q And who trained you in. calibrations?
l 25 A She did.
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1 Q And what happened to Ms. Oakley?
2 A She was fired. l 3 Q And when did that happen?
4 A Shortly after I -- shortly after I was being trained by 5 her.
6 0 Was it before or after you were certified; do you 7 recall?
8 A I can't recall.
9 Q All right.
10 A I think it was just after, but I can't remember.
11 , Q All right.
12 Do you know whether or not you were performing
(])
13 certifications as a -- I'm sorry -- performing 14 calibrations as a certified inspector before she was 15 terminated?
16 A No, sir.
17 Q Okay. Let me just try to reconstruct this. It's not 18 critical.
19 But was there a time when no one was certified to 20 perform calibrations?
21 A No, sir.
22 Q Okay. ,
23 And you took over right after her? ,
24 A Right.
25 Q All right, sir.
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1 Do you know who trained Ms. Oakley?
2 A No, sir, I don't.
3 Q Do you know who preceded Ms. Oakley as the Calibrations 4 Inspector?
5 A Her name is Janet Lobue now.
6 Q Okay. .
l 7 A I believe it was Janet Peters at that time.
8 Q All right.
9 And do you know for what period of time Ms. Oakley 10 was the Calibrations Inspect,or?
11 A No, sir, I don't.
{} 12 Q An approximation; six months, a year, more?
I think it was approximately a year, but I'm not sure.
13 A 14 Q All right.
15 And do you know whether or not they followed the 16 same practice that they did when you were Calibrations 17 Inspector at the time that Ms. Oakley was the 18 Calibrations Inspector? By that I mean, there was one 19 inspector who did all the calibrations?
20 A I believe so, yes, sir.
21 Q Okay.
22 There may have been somebody who filled in when she i
23 was on vacation and that sort of thing, but she 24 basically was a -- the sole person who did calibrations?
l
( 25 A It was my understanding that one person handled all of l
Ronntag Reporting Rervice. Ltd_ a Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7541 0
1 the calibrations functions at the company.
2 Q All right.
3 That was the case when you were the calibrations 4 man?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Now, how about when Ms. Peters, now Ms. Lobue -- when 7 she did the calibrations work before Ms. Oakley:
8 Do you know whether she was, in essence, the single 9 Calibrations Inspector?
10 A I don't know that, sir.
11 Q All right.
12 Do you know what period of time Ms. Peters-Lobue
(]}
13 did the calibrations work?
14 A No, I don't.
15 Q All right.
16 So you took over, then, calibrations work in early 17 1983.
18 And at that time who was your immediate lead?
19 A Mike Kast.
20 Q K-A-S-T?
21 A K-A-S-T, yes.
22 0 Okay.
23 And was Mr. Kast certified in calibrations; do you 24 know? ;
25 A I believe he was at that time.
1 1
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Q Okay.
2 Who was over Mr. Kast?
3 A Bob Brown.
4 Q All right.
What position did Mr. Brown hold?
5 6 A Mr. Brown was the QC Manager at that time.
i 7 Q All right.
8 Was Mr. Brown certified in calibrations?
9 A I don't know.
i 10 0 Okay.
11 Did Mr. Kast ever do any calibrations work when you 12 were -- when you were the Calibrations Inspector?
(]) ,
13 A No, sir.
14 Q All right.
15 How long were you under Mr. Kast?
16 A I can't recall how long -- how long he was my boss.
17 (Indicating.)
18 Q Did Mr. Brown, the QC Manager, ever do any calibrations 19 work? I 20 A Not that I'm aware of.
21 Q I guess if he were certified, he would have done enough 22 to get certified? Wouldn't that be the way the program 23 works?
24 A Yes, sir.
O l
25 Q All right. .
sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,, I Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 But you don't -- you are not aware of Brown doing 2 any actual calibration inspection work?
3 A No, sir.
4 Q Okay.
5 Who took over as your direct Lead or direct 6 supervisor for Mr. Kast?
7 A After Mr. Kast?
8 Q Yes, after Mr. Kast.
9 A Larry Phillips.
10 Q All right.
11 And can you recall when you came under Mr. Phillips 12 as your Lead?
[]}
13 A I can't recall the exact time.
14 (Indicating . )
15 Q How about -- how about a rough time frame?
16 How long was Kast your supervisor?
17 If you started early '83, was it some time later in 18 '83 or was it in '84 or later Phillips came in?
19 A I think Mr. Phil.iips came in later in '83, but I'm 20 not -- I'm not sure.
21 Q All right, sir.
22 When Mr. Phillips came on as your Lead, was he 23 certified in calibrations?
24 A No, sir, not at that time.
25 0 All right.
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1 Did Mr. Phillips actually perform any calibrations 2 work?
3 A No, sir.
4 0 I take it he didn't if he wasn't certified?
5 A Right, right.
' All right.
6 Q 7 And at the time Mr. Phillips was your immediate 8 Lead, who was your supervisor over Mr. Phillips?
9 A I don't know the time frame, but a fellow by the name of 10 Tom Corcoran took over Mr. Brown's job.
11 I don't know -- I can't remember what time frame 12 that fell into.
{}
13 (Indicating.)
14 Q Okay.
15 Mr. Corcoran became the Quality Control Manager --
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q -- and replaced Mr. Brown?
., 18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q What happened to Mr. Brown, if you know?
20 A I believe Mr. Brown got a promotion to engineer -- field 21 engineer at another site.
22 Q' Okay. 1 23 He left Braidwood?
l I 24 A Yes, sir.
25 Q All right.
l l
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7545 1 Was Mr. Corcoran certified in calibrations?
2 A I don't know. -
3 Q Did Mr. Corcoran ever do any calibre.tions work when you 4 were the Calibrations Inspector?
5 A Not that I'm aware of.
6 0 All right.
7 And what happened to Mr. Corcoran?
8 A Mr. Corcoran told me that he was fired.
9 Q Well, can you describe the circumstances where he 10 told -- when he told you that?
11 A After he was fired, I -- they -- they put him in a 12 little room beside the QC Manager's office, and I
(])
13 happened to be in there one day, and he informed me that 14 he had been fired and that he had been promised that 15 he'd be left at his same pay scale, but they took his --
16 his money away from him.
17 (Indicating.)
18 Q What was your reaction to Mr. Corcoran telling you this?
19 A I was shocked.
20 Q Why was that, Mr. Seeders?
21 A I had no idea -- you know, I had no idea there was 22 any -- any problem at that time.
23 0 Okay.
l 1
24 Did Mr. Corcoran tend to confide in you before this 25 incident?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. g Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7546 l
(:)
1 A No, sir.
2 Q I mean, he was the QC Manager of all the Quality Control 3 Inspectors; right?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q Had he ever had any sort of -- had he had -- had he 6 discussed previously his personal circumstances, 7 his -- how he was doing on the job, his evaluations and 8 that sort of thing?
9 A No, sir.
10 Q So just sort of out of the blue he tells you that he had 11 been fired?
A Yes, sir.
(' } 12 13 0 Well, if he was fired, I gather he hadn't at that point 14 left the site? He was in this little room; right?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q And who was in his office where he had been before?
17 A Mr. DeWald.
18 Q All right.
19 Mr. DeWald had come on?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q Would this make it approximately August or September of 22 1983, then?
23 A Again, I -- I can't remember the time frames.
24 Q Was it shortly after Mr. DeWald came on site as the QC 25 Manager?
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v 1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q And what then happened with Mr. Corcoran?
3 Did he remain in this little room?
4 A Shortly after that, he -- he was gone.
5 Q All right.
6 Did you learn anything about the circumstances of 7 his departure?
8 A No, sir.
9 Q All right.
10 Did you ever work indirectly for Mr. Saklak, Mr.
11 Richard Saklak?
12 A The only time I worked under Mr. Saklak was usually --
(])
13 well, for my overtime jobs on the weekends or -- mostly 14 for Mr. Saklak on the -- on the weekends, Saturdays.
15 Q Aside from when you were doing your Saturday work and 16 overtime work -- and those were in areas outside 17 calibrations generally; right?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q So Mr. Saklak would be supervising the overtime; the 20 Saturday crew, basically?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q And when you were working Saturday, you were part of.
23 that crew and, therefore, under Mr. Saklak directly?
24 A Yes, sir.
25 Q Did you do whatever he had you doing?
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1 A Yes, sir.
- 2 Q Okay.
3 Aside from that, when you were performing your 4 normal calibrations duties, was Mr. Saklak your second 5 level supervisor over Mr. Phillips at any time?
6 A He was -- he was the supervisor over -- over the Leads, 7 I believe.
8 Q Okay.
9 Was one of his disciplines the calibrations area?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q To your knowledge, was Mr. Saklak certified in 12 calibrations?
(])
13 A No, sir.
14 Q Do you know whether he was or not?
15 A I don't believe he was, sir.
16 0 Okay.
17 Did Mr. Saklak ever perform any calibrations work 18 when you were the Calibrations Inspector?
19 A No, sir.
20 Q Describe generally, if you would, Mr. Seeders, what your 21 working relationship was with Mr. Saklak, now in the --
22 in the -- in the context of your calibrations work as 23 opposed to the overtime work.
24 A I -- I always got along with Mr. Saklak real well. I 25 never had any problem with him at all.
l l
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1 Q Okay.
2 And what kind of dealings did you have with Mr.
3 Saklak in the course of your calibrations work, if any?
l 4 A None.
5 Q Did Mr. Saklak ever -- well, did he ever come in and 6 work with you in your calibrations work?
7 A No, sir.
8 Q Did he ever come down and review the calibrations 9 inspection records that you were responsible for 10 preparing?
11 A Not to my knowledge.
12 Not in your presence, in any event?
() Q 13 A No, sir.
14 Q Did he ever ask you if things were going okay in 15 calibrations?
16 A No, sir.
17 Q He basically kept completely out of the area; is that 18 what I understand? l 19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q And left it to your Lead, Mr. Phillips, to supervise 21 calibrations? l 22 A Yes, sir.
23 Let's try to pin this down in time now, if we can. I Q
24 Kast went off or -- did Kast leave, Mr. Kast leave?
25 A Mr. Kast went to a different site, I believe.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
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- -- -. . .- -_-_,. . .. .\
l l
7550 1 Q And is that when Mr. Phillips came on as your Lead or 2 was it some time other than that?
3 A I -- I believe so, yes.
4 Q You believe it was when Kast left and Phillips came on 5 as your Lead?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 0 Okay.
8 And do you know at what point in time Mr. Saklak 9 took on the calibrations discipline as one of the areas 10 in which he supervised over the Leads? ,
11 A I don't know what time frame that is.
12 Q Do you know if he had calibrations during his entire
(}
13 tenure as the general supervisor of QC Inspectors?
14 A I believe all the disciplines fell under his -- his 15 supervisory position.
16 Q Okay.
17 Well, the record reflects that at some point, they 18 had various changes in the organizational structure at 19 Comstock, and later in the job, Saklak's disciplines 20 were reduced in number.
l
! 21 For example, welding was taken out from under him.
22 Do you know whether or not -- well, to your 23 knowledge, did Mr. Saklak retain calibrations as one of 24 his areas during his entire tenure?
25 A I don't know that.
sonntag Reporting service. Ltd.
! - Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7551 1 Q Okay, 2 Nobody -- you don't recall anybody announcing that 3 ycu no longer worked for Mr. Saklak?
4 A No, sir.
5 Q Okay.
6 As far as you know, Saklak was over you up until 7 the point when you were transferred out of QC?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q Aside from the contact with Mr. Saklak that you have 10 described to Mr. Miller -- and that was a contact that 11 occurred in the summer of 1984 leading up to your -- the 12 threatened termination and the ultimate transfer -- had
[}
13 you had any other contact, that sticks in your mind, 14 with Mr. Saklak with regard to the adequacy of your 2
15 calibrations work?
16 A No, sir.
17 Q Okay.
18 Now, I take it that you worked, when you were doing 19 calibrations, in the general QC offica; is that right?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q And you worked among the Inspectors who did other 22 inspection disciplines?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q All right. ,
() 25 And where was Mr. Saklak's affice in proximity to Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 1 . .-
7552 O
1 where you were working?
2 A The QC -- the QC office upstairs was divided into two 3 sections.
4 Q Yes.
5 A Mr. Saklak was -- had a desk in the other section of the 6 office right out in the middle of the room.
7 (Indicating.)
8 0 Okay.
9 Did you see him on a daily basis?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q And did you see other Inspectors on a daily basis?
12 A Yes, sir.
(]} ,
13 Q And although you testified that Mr. Saklak had little or 14 nothing to do with you and your calibrations work until 15 the summer of '84, did you observe Mr. Saklak in his 16 dealings with other Inspectors?
17 A I know that other Inspectors had problems with him.
18 Q How do you know that?
19 A One occasion, I could -- I didn't actually see the 20 incident, but I could hear him screaming at Rick Martin.
21 Q All right.
22 Mr. Martin was a welding inspector?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q Was he a welding inspector at the time; do you recall?
25 A I believe so, yes, sir.
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1 Q All right. And you heard him scream at him.
2 Do you recall any of the substance of what you 1
3 heard? ,
4 A Mr. Martin had lost his tape rule and Mr. Saklak was 5 screaming at him because he lost his tape rule.
6 Q This is a tool that's issued for performing inspections?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q A measuring tool, I take it?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 0 Okay, 11 And what did you hear Mr. Martin respond?
I A Mr. Martin was trying to calm him down, telling him that
[]} 12 13 it wasn't that big a deal, and Mr. Saklak just totally 14 lost it. He was screaming and yelling; and later on, I 15 believe Mr. Saklak was reprimanded for the incident.
I 16 Q That's what you understood, in any event?
17 A That's what I understood, yes, sir.
18 Q How did you understand that?
19 A Through the other Inspectors.
20 Q What was Mr. -- can you -- did you know Mr. Martin?
! 21 A Yes, sir.
l 22 Q And can you describe Mr. Martin's personality?
i 23 Is he a loud and boisterous person?
l 24 A No, sir.
25 Q Is he a quiet, soft-spoken person?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
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) l A Very quite, soft-spoken. ;
1 i
2 Q Is he a large man?
3 A He's tall.
4 Q Tall?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Is he -- does he throw his weight around or his height
, 7 around?
8 A No,' sir.
9 Q There's been previous testimony that for a time -- this 10 is a colloquial term -- but for a time, Mr. Martin was a 11 Bible thumper. That was a word that somebody else used; 12 but that he was -- that he was devout and proselytized
[}
. 13 his beliefs.
14 Is that an observation that you can agree with?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 I never personally observed him acting that way, j 17 but I -- I understood that he -- he was a very religious 18 person.
19 Q Okay.
20 And was this incident with Mr. Saklak during the 21 period of time when you understood Mr. -- Mr. Martin was 22 proselytizing? Was he very religious?
! 23 A I don't think that had anything to do with the incident.
24 Q No, that's not my suggestion; but just if you know.
- () 25 There's been also. testimony that Mr. Martin sort of
[
Sonntag Renorting Service. Ltd.
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(
1 backed off, if you will, being as much of an advocate or 2 a proselytizer.
3 And do you know whether or not, if you accept that 4 as an accurate description of Mr. Martin, this was --
5 this incident with Saklak was before or after Mr.
6 Martin's change of heart?
7 A I believe after.
8 Q Okay.
! 9 Do you know whether or not Mr. Martin provoked Mr.
10 Saklak at the time?
11 A I don't believe so.
12 0 Okay.
(])
13 Did you have occasion generally to observe Mr.
14 Saklak's dealing with QC Inspectors?
15 A Mr. Saklak was usually very, very forceful with 16 everybody and -- and basically tried to throw his weight 17 around.
18 Q You, I gather, didn't happen to be in his line of fire 19 until the summer of '847 l 20 A Right.
21 Q Okay.
22 And you said you got along with him okay?
23 A Yes, sir.
l 24 Q Did you understand that Mr. DeWald -- now, I take it Mr.
25 DeWald -- I may have asked you that, ,and I apologize if l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
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V 1 I have -- but DeWald was above Saklak in the chain of 2 command after Mr. Corcoran --
3 A Yes, sir.
4 0 -- left the position?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Do you know whether DeWald was certified in 7 calibrations?
8 A No, I don't, sir.
9 Q Okay.
10 Did Mr. DeWald, to your knowledge, ever perform any 11 calibration inspections when you were the Calibrations 12 Inspector?
(])
13 A Not to my knowledge.
14 Q All right.
15 Did Mr. DeWald ever observe you in the course of 16 performing your calibration inspections? Did he ever l 17 come in and work with you on your paper work?
l I
18 A No, sir.
I
( 19 Q All'right.
l 20 Did he ever review your paper work, review your 21 calibrations inspections documents?
22 A I believe from time to time he -- he reviewed my ICR's.
23 Q All right.
24 That was during the chain -- in the normal chain of 1 O
25 review, as you have described it to Mr. Miller? I l 1 i
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. __
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()
A Yes, sir. l 1
2 Q Aside from that, did Mr. DeWald ever come in and perform 3 a review of your calibration inspection documents, to
- 4 your knowledge?
5 A Not to my knowledge.
6 That was Mr. Phillips' job.
7 Q Okay. ,
8 Did Mr. DeWald ever come and ask you whether you 9 were having any problems with calibration inspection?
10 A No, sir.
11 Q Did he have anything to do with your calibrations work, 12 Mr. DeWald?
[]}
13 A No, sir.
14 Q All right.
I i 15 Now, did you understand that Mr. DeWald had 16 previously worked as a Level II Inspector himself at the 17 site?
i 18 A Yes, sir, that was my understanding.
19 Q All right.
20 And I take it that he didn't do that while you were 21 on the job?
22 A No, sir.
23 Q Okay.
24 That was before your time?
25 A Yes, sir.
t Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illino,is 60134 (312) 232-0262
7558 O
1 Q All right.
2 Did you understand that Mr. DeWald had performed 3 weld inspections before as a Level II?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q Did you ever have occasion to observe any inspection 6 reports that Mr. DeWald prepared in the course of his 7 weld inspection work?
8 A On one occasion, a gentleman by the name of Ted King was 9 doing a -- a review on welding inspection records, and 10 he happen'ed to be sitting right next to me --
11 Q In the QC office?
12 A
(]) In the QC office.
13 Q All right.
14 A -- and it was about 10:30 in the morning, and he turned 15 around to me and he said, "My God, would you look at 16 this," and not being that familiar with welding records, 17 I looked at it, and I didn't really know what I was 18 looking at, and I said, "Well, that's nice. You know, 19 what is it?" And he said "Well, look who" - "look who 20 signed it, look who signed it off" --
21 Q All right.
22 A -- and it was Mr. DeWald's signature, and I said, "Well, 23 that's fine. You know, what's" - "what's the big ,
24 deal," and he said, "This man put down on or.e piece of 25 paper that he did over a thousand welds," and I said, Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. -
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7559 O
1 you know, "Well, I'm not that familiar with welding.
2 What's the significance of" - "of doing a thousand 3 welds in one day? " He said, "It's impossible. If" --
4 "if everything was perfect, all the prints fell in line, 5 all the research was" - "was perfect, a man that" --
6 "that worked his tail off could not" - "could probably 7 do 50 in one day, 50 welds in one day."
8 Q Did you look at the piece of paper that Mr. King --
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q -- had in his hand?
11 A Yes, sir.
~
12 All right.
() Q ~.
13 Did you confirm that it was Mr. DeWald's signature 14 on the document?
15 A Yes, sir, yes, sir.
16 0 I take it you recognized Mr. DeWald's signature --
l .
17 A Yes, sir.
38 Q -- at the time?
19 Did you look at the -- the document as it indicated i
20 the number of welds that had been inspected?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q And do you recall whether, in fact, the number was 23 greater than a thousand 24 A The number was greater than a thousand.
25 I don't -- I don't remember the exact -- the exact l
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O 1 number.
2 Q Okay.
3 I take it you don't remember any other particulars 4 about the document you saw; dates or locations or 5 installations or any of that?
6 A No, sir, I don't remember.
7 Q Do you remember about what time -- what date this 9 occurred when Mr. King showed this to you; a year or a 9 month or a day, if you recall?
10 A I can't recall the date.
11 Q Okay.
Now, let's see if we can pin it down.
[]} 12 13 Did it occur after you were certified as a 14 Calibrations Inspector?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q Did it occur before the summer of '84 when you started 17 having the encounters that you have testified to with 18 Mr. Saklak --
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q -- Seltmann and Seeders --
21 A Yes, sir.
22 0 -- Seese, rather?
23 Had you ever heard any other Inspectors talk about 24 Mr. DeWald's past weld inspection work?
( 25 A After that, it - .it seemed to come up all the timt.
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,, 1 that he -- that he wasn't a very good inspector.
2 Q All right.
3 That was -- was that the opinion that you
, 4 understood other QC Inspectors drew from their 5 understanding of Mr. DeWald having --
6 A Yes, sir.
7 Q -- done a thousand welds on one inspection report?
i 8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q All right.
10 You are not a Weld Inspector, and, obviously, you 11 are not relating your own opinion about DeWald's weld 12 inspection work, are you?
({}
13 A Yes, sir -- I mean, I'm not a Weld Inspector and I l
14 couldn't -- I couldn't make an opinion about that.
15 Q All right.
16 Did Mr. -- in your opinion, did Mr. DeWald have a i
17 reputation as having been a good inspector?
18 MR. MILLER: Your Honor, I'm going to object.
19 I don't understand the relevance of an opinion 20 about Mr. DeWald's competence as a Weld Inspector.
21 Mr. DeWald's competence or lack thereof as a Weld ,
t 22 Inspector I don't believe is an issue in this 23 proceeding.
l The only relevance that I understood to this 24 l 25 thousand weld assertion was that somehow this had been l
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1 held up by Comstock management to the QC Inspectors as a 2 standard that they could achieve, if they would just 3 work harder; but now it has gotten to the point where we 4 are interrogating witnesses about the quality of Mr.
5 DeWald's inspections, and I don't believe that it is 6 relevant at all.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm not sure it's the 8 quality of the inspections, but it's a question, I 9 believe, also, of Mr. DeWald's attitude --
10 MR. GUILD: Indeed.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- with regard to 12 inspections. I think that's the second point.
()
13 The first point was whether it was held up as an 14 example, but I really don't think that that's been i 15 pursued.
16 I think it's a question of Mr. DeWald's attitude, 17 not just with regard to his attitude per se, but as to 18 what the other employees understood his attitude to be 19 with regard to quality versus quantity.
20 Now, how far that can be carried, I don't know, but i
21 I think it's relevant.
22 I mean, we do have the allegations about Mr. DeWald 23 being one of the harassers or intimidators there, or at 24 least being part of the management, and if everybody l
l 25 understood that they were expected to do quantity l
l l
Sonntaa ReDorting Service, Ltd. __
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)
i 1 without quality work from the example of their manager, 1 2 I think it's within the scope of the hearing.
3 I mean, this isn't a time to brief it, but I think a
i 4 there certainly are elements of relevancy there.
5 MR. MILLER: Well, but we're beyond the 6 question of whether he was doing -- stressing quantity 7 over quality, and now the general question was asked 8 about the opinion of the Inspectors with respect to Mr.
9 DeWald's abilities when -- not as a manager, but when he 10 was the Inspector.
11 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, okay.
()
13 Let me finish here, because I don't think it's a 14 question of ability that's really being touched on, it's 15 a question of attitude, and the question had to do with 16 a poor inspector; but I didn't interpret it as meaning 17 unable to perform inspections, but his attitude towards 18 inspections.
19 Now, Mr. Guild, do you have anything further on 20 that?
21 MR. GUILD: I think it's obviously relevant.
22 It's a question of what model Mr. DeWald set for quality 23 in terms of inspection work; and it -- I think'there is
-24 pervasive evidence now that Mr. DeWald was widely 25 understood as setting a pretty abysmally low standard of Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. l
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1 quality. Enough said.
2 But it seems to me that Mr. Miller ought -- to 3 suggest with a straight face that Mr. DeWald's i 4 reputation for quality is not relevant to anything ,
5 suggests to me that Applicant simply doesn't yet know 6 what a quality assurance program ought to be in terms of 7 setting standards of quality.-
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Let me just say -- I don't 9 think we ought to get into arguments on that.
10 Let me just say I don't recall any evidence that
- 11 would go to the first point, that the company held that 12 up as a model. I haven't heard anything like that.
{ 13 MR. MILLER: Nor I. 14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: But I have heard evidence 15 that suggested that everyone was aware of this, and that 16 it appears as though there could have been an inference, 17 from their being aware of it, as to what was expected of 18 them, and there is also an implication that Mr. DeWald's 19 attitude was a certain way, and I think both of those i 20 elements are relevant. 21 Now, how much you can make of that, you know, is 22 open to speculation at this point. 23 So continue, Mr. Guild. 24 MR. GUILD: There was a pending question.- ( 25 I'll withdraw it, i sonntaa Reoortino Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
7565 O 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Why don't you 2 rephrase it, because the pending question did suggest to 3 Mr. Miller and to others, I'm sure, that you were 4 talking about Mr. DeWald's competence to perform 5 inspections, and I think that is not relevant. 6 MR. GUILD: Okay. The -- the -- I think the 7 problem -- the line of questions and answers that got us 8 into the corner we're in, it was simply the witness 9 volunteering first he wasn't a Weld Inspector and so he 10 didn't have a basis for forming an opinion, but that he 11 understood the opinion of others, and that prompted my 12 last question. (]) , 13 But I'll rephrase it and we can move on. 14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. 15 BY MR. GUILD: , 16 Q Mr. Seeders, did you have occasion to discuss, with . 17 other Inspectors, Mr. DeWald's former inspection work? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q And did you have an occasion to discuss with other l 20 Inspectors Mr. DeWald's attitude towards quality and 21 inspection work? 22 A Yes, sir. 23 Q And did you form an opinion about the Inspectors' 24 understanding of Mr. DeWald's attitude towards quality ! O 25 and inspection work? l S'onntag Reporting Service, Ltd. , Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
ew i 7566 O 1 A Yes, sir. 2 Q Can you state that opinion? 3 A It was -- it was the opinion of all the Inspectors that 4 Mr. DeWald was concerned only with one thing, and that 5 was making himself look good to Edison. ! 6 Q All richt. 7 And how does that observation or opinion relate to 8 the question of Mr. DeWald's attitude about quality? 9 A Mr. DeWald thought that making himself look good meant 10 quantity of inspections. 11 Q All right. 12 How did you reach that conclusion? (]} 13 A That -- that was -- he was always pushing everybody 14 for -- there was -- there was a term that went around S 15 the QC office all the time when -- when Mr. DeWald was j 16 really trying to -- really pushing everybody. The term 17 we used was, "DeWald wants numbers again"; and when he 18 would -- when he would really get -- get pushing and , 19 have a meeting, that was the term that -- that the -- 20 that the weld Inspectors used. 21 Q All right. 22 And did you understand that judgment to reflect ; I 23 that, in the opinion of those Inspectors, quantity was 24 pushed by Mr. Dewald over quality? 25 A That was -- that was the understanding, that -- that he Sonntaa ReDortina Service, Ltd. _ j Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
' 7567 (:) 1 wanted quantity no matter what. 2 Q All right. 3 Now, I gather you did a particular area of work 4 4 that was really a lot dif ferent from other Inspectors' 5 work, and that was calibrations? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q All right. We'll talk some more about that momentarily. i 8 But from your previous responses to Mr. Miller, I 3 9 gather, not on1'y because you were in the QC office with 10 everyone else and talking to them, but because you I 11 attended general meetings and training in our 12 disciplines, that you had an opportunity to hear what ({} 13 Mr. DeWald had to say about other inspection areas as 14 well? 15 A Yes, sir. 2 16 Q Okay. 17 Did you attend the Friday general meetings when i i 18 those happened? l 19 A Yes, sir. l Did you hear Mr. DeWald in those meetings ever talk 20 Q l 21 about being under schedule pressure or deadlines? l . 22 A Yes, sir. I 23 Q And did you understand where those deadlines came from? l l 24 A Everybody understood them to be coming from CECO. I 25 Q Commonwealth Edison Company? I l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262 l
7568
]
1 O 1 A Yes, sir. 2 Q All right. 3 Did you ever understand that there was a backlog 4 in -- in quality control inspections? 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q All right. 7 I take it not in calibrations, because yours is 8 more or less an in-process inspection? You've got to 9 do it when the tools come up? 10 A Yes, sir. ) 11 Q But in other disciplines? 12 A Yes, sir. (]} 13 Q What other disciplines did you understand there were 14 backlogs in? 15 A In all the other disciplines. 16 Q All right. 17 And did you ever understand that -- that the i 18 Comstock electrical contract was in jeopardy because of 19 failure to meet Edison-imposed schedules? 20 A I -- I never knew that as a fact. 21 Q All right. 22 Was there shop talk or a discussion of this? 23 A There was shop talk about being behind, and you always 24 hear rumors about the company being run off site because 25 they can't meet their deadlines. I Sonntag Reoortina Service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7569
)
1 Q Okay. i 1 2 Ar.d did Mr. DeWald ever recount that -- that 3 Comstock QC was behind in meeting their Edison-imposed 4 deadlines? 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q And did he do so at these Friday meetings? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Why don't we take a 9 10-minute break. 10 MR. GUILD: Fine. 11 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which the hearing was resumed as follows:) (]}12 , 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We'll just go back on the 14 record. 15 Mr. Guild. 16 MR. GUILD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 17 BY MR. GUILD: i 18 Q Mr. Seeders, I want to show you a document. It is 19 Attachment A to a filing that Intervenors made in this 20 case, an attachment to a Motion to Admit Claims of 21 Intimidation and Harassment, Comstock Quality Control 22 Inspectors, a Motion for Protective Order filed July 12, 23 1985, and that attachment is an affidavit entitle ^ i 24 " Affidavit of John D. Seeders." It's a document of 25 three pages. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
. . . -. .- -. . = _ - . .- .
7570 ! ) 1 (Indicating. ) I 2 Let me ask you to take moment and look at it, and l 3 I'd like you to tell me whether or not that is, indeed, l
- 4 your statement and whether it is true and accurate, to j 5 the best of your knowledge.
6 MR. MILLER: Your Honor, when this filing was 7 made by the Intervenors, it contained a representation 8 by Mr. Guild that a signed copy of the affidavit would 9 be filed within a very few days. 10 That was never done; and Mr. Guild has elicited 11 from Mr. Seeders today an explanation. 12 I intend to go into that when recross examination []} j 13 is allowed. t 14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: You are certainly entitled 15 to. 16 MR. MILLER: But it seems to me that to -- I 17 assume that the next step in this is that the affidavit 18 is going to be marked as an exhibit and introduced into 19 evidence or that Mr. Guild will simply ask that it be 20 incorporated as a part of the -- of the contention, 21 further incorporated into the contention. 22 It is a little over two pages. It contains many 23 conclusory statements. 24 It seems to me that rather than simply attempt to ( 25 shortcut this process by now authenticating the sonntag Reporting Service. Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262-
7571 O 1 affidavit and submitting it, that if Mr. Guild has 2 questions on the substance of the allegations that are 3 found in the affidavit, he ought to ask them of Mr. 4 Seeders and get Mr. Seeders' response now. 5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I would suppose he's 6 going to do that with regard to each matter, too. 7 Technically you are correct about the matter not 8 going in originally, but where you are expected to 9 impeach hic current testimony -- it's allowed in on the 10 grounds that it's corroborative of present testimony, 11 and the usual practice is when it's obvious that the 12 witness is going to be impeached, that you just do it (]) 13 all in one step; but I don't see that it makes that big 14 a difference. 15 As far as the substance of the testimony goes, Mr. 16 Miller, how would it make any difference? 17 The reason the practice is to let it all in at once 18 is just to save time. 19 But isn't it correct that you are going to impeach 20 what the witness has said in there and will currently 21 say on the stand? 22 MR. MILLER: Well, I may very well do that, 23 your Honor. 24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And don't you agree that 25 corroborative contemporaneous statements -- or 1 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. J Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 ,
- - - _ _ . - -. . _ _ .. _ __ .J
7572 l l I corroborative prior statements are then admitted to 2 reinforce the original testimony? 3 You know, that's my understanding of the rule; and 4 I think we just would save time by doing it right now.
~
5 MR. MILLER: Perhaps -- perhaps so. 1 6 But I think that the Board is entitled to 7 understand what the witness' present recollection is
- 8 regarding the substance of this -- these allegations i
9 before the unexecuted affidavit is somehow authenticated 10 over a year after it was prepared. j 11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Well, what we want to l ( ) ,12 be assured of is, are you going to have Mr. Seeders 13 testifying to these matters today rather than just put 14 in the -- maybe not today, but maybe on Tuesday, rather 15 than just put it in without any testimony on it? 16 MR. GUILD: Well, Mr. Chairman, here's the 17 point: 18 Of course it was with some disappointment that Mr. 19 Seeders' executed affidavit was not, indeed, filed as 20 counsel represented it would be filed. 21 The circumstances now are a matter of record. Mr. 22 Seeders has so testified. 23 Mr. Miller, with I'm sure some glee, in his l 24 deposition of Mr. Seeders sought at that time to 25 determine whether or not, indeed, the affidavit was -- Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7573
/~T I was authentic, and Mr. Seeders authenticated it at that 2 time.
3 So Mr. Miller is not being surprised at its 4 authentication today. It was authenticated back in 5 November of 1985 at the first opportunity when Mr. 6 Seeders was subject to compulsory process of the 7 company. 8 I'm simply, for the record in this case, getting 9 him to, indeed, authenticate that filing, and that -- 10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's what you are 11 doing right now. {} 12 MR. GUILD: That's exactly what I'm doing. But the question arises, 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: 14 when you are going to offer the document, whether you 15 are going to do it without eliciting current testimony 16 with regard to those matters and simply want to put the i 17 document in to prove the contents of that document. 18 MR. GUILD: No, I don't -- I don't suggest 19 that putting the document in proves the contents; and 20 Mr. Miller, perhaps, anticipated too much. 21 What I simply want the document in for, as it is l 22 now, is a pleading. It's a pleading in the matter. 4 23 I'm not asking that an affidavit substitute for 24 live testimony, if that's Mr. Miller's fear. ( 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, that's the problem. i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
I 7574 O 1 MR. GUILD: Then he shouldn't worry about it. l 2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All right. i 3 MR. GUILD: I just simply want to show the 4 witness, as I believe he already testified, with the i ! 5 document before him, and an opportunity to look at it i
- 6 will confirm once again --
i 7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All we want you to do is 8 allay our worries on that score; and you've done that. 9 MR. GUILD: Right. 10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We don't have any pending 11 motion as far as I can see. i 12 MR. MILLER: That's correct. (}
- 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN
- Okay. So continue, Mr.
14 Guild. 4 15 MR. GUILD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 16 BY MR. GUILD: j 17 Q Mr. Seeders, all that said, have you had an opportunity 18 to review the document? l 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q And is it, indeed, your statement? 21 A Yes, sir. l 22 Q And is it true and complete and accurate? i l 23 A Yes, sir. l l 24 Q Now, by this af fidavit -- by its terms, you authorized , 25 Intervenors to submit that affidavit on your behalf; Ronntaa Renortina Service. Ltd. l Geneva', Illinois 60134
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7575
}
l 1 correct? l l 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q All right.
; 4 And you also authorized Intervenors to seek a )
l 5 protective order on your behalf, did you not? l 6 A Yes, sir. j 7 Q Part of the basis for seeking that protective order was, 8 as is stated in the affidavit, your conversations with a j 9 number of other QC Inspectors, was it not? i 10 A Yes, sir. ! 11 Q All right. 12 And did, in fact, a number of other QC []} 13 Inspectors -- and I believe the affidavit states at 14 least 10 -- state to you that they would testify in this 15 proceeding, but they desired a protective order? 16 A Yes, sir. i j 17 i JUDGE GROSSMAN: By the way, just to set the 1 l 18 record straight, the phrase I was looking for was this i 19 is used to counter recent fabrication, and I think i ! 20 that's the basis for doing it all at once, anyway. f ! 21 BY MR. GUILD: 22 Q Now, do you recall me coming to your home in Morris in 23 July of 1985? 24 A Yes, sir. ! 25 Q And as I recall, it was a rainy night, and it may have i l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. I Geneva, Illinois 60134 i (312) 232-0262 L._.. _ _ _ . . _ . _ _ . . _ . . _ . _ . . . . _ . . . _ _ . _ . . _ _ _ . . _ _ _ . _
7576 O 1 been the same night that I was going to meet you in the 2 restaurant. I'm not sure whether it was or not. 3 But do you recall Mr. Cassel and I and Ms. Gomez 4 coming to your house? 5 A Yes, sir. i 6 Q And we discussed your concerns in brief at that time? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q~ Do you recall that at that time you provided me with -- 9 you stated, in effect, I might be interested in some 10 documents that you had that were NRC documents? j 11 A Yes, sir. 12 0 All right. (} 13 And were those documents a series of memoranda 14 that -- that documented meetings by some 24 Comstock 15 Inspectors with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission in 16 March of 1985? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q And I want to show you what's been received in evidence 19 3s Intervenors' Exhibit 42A -- it's an in-camera 20 do. ment -- and ask you whether or not you've ever seen 21 that before. 22 (Indicating.) 23 Before you answer, let me tell you that the 24 brackets that appear around certain names in the ( 25 document were brackets that were added later and were Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. _. Geneva, Illinois 60134
- (312) 232-0262
7577 O 1 probably not on the document when you first saw it. 2 Take a moment. 3 And I ask if you can identify that as one of the 4 documents that you gave me on that evening. 5 A Yes, sir, I believe it is. 6 Q All right. 7 And let me show you two additional documents, and 8 they are part of Intervenors' -- part of Exhibit 42, 9 which is not an in-camera exhibit, and these are two 10 memoranda, also, from the NRC, dated March 29, 1985. 11 The first is from McGregor and Schulz to Residents at 12 Braidwood, to Warnick and Weil; and the second is a (]) 13 March 29, 1985, document from McGregor and Schulz to 14 Warnick and C. Williams, and let me ask you if those are 15 the two additional NRC documents you provided me that 16 evening. 17 - (Indicating.) 18 A Yes, sir, I believe so. t 19 Q All right. Thank you. 20 Mr. Seeders, did you obtain these documents from i 21 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission? Did they send them 22 to you? 23 A No, sir. 24 Q Did you obtain them from another QC Inspector at the 25 site? l l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 232-0262 (312)
7578
)
1 A Yes, sir, I believe so. 2 Q Let's talk about your work as a Calibrations Inspector. 3 Now, from your testimony, I gather that during the 4 course of your work, aside from training others in l 5 calibrations, such as Mr. Snyder, you essentially worked 6 alone; is that correct? 4 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q And you worked, really, without direct supervision from 9 anybody who was certified in the area of calibrations? l 10 A Yes, sir. I 11 Q And aside from Mr. Phillips, who was your Lead, you 12 didn't get any supervision from Mr. Saklak and Mr. {]) 13 DeWald; is that true? 14 A That's correct. 15 Q Your training consisted of the training that was given 16 to you by your predecessor; correct? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q All right. 19 She left the job, was terminated, shortly after, if 20 that was the sequence, or if not, shortly before, you 21 took over as the Calibrations Inspector? 22 A Yes, sir. i 23 Q Was there anybody else on site, then, after you became 24 the Calibrations Inspector, who was experienced and 25 qualified and certified in the area of calibrations? l l . sonntaa ReDortina Service, Ltd. i ' Geneva, Illinois 60134 , (312) 232-0262 )
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7579
' )
1 A When Ms. Oakley left? 2 Q Yes. i 3 A I believe Mike Kast was certified in calibration, but I 4 never seen him do,any calibration. 5 Q All right. 6 And he supervised you for a time? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q All right. 9 But after -- but after Phillips took over as your 10 Lead, was there anyone else on site who had actually 11 done calibrations work? 12 A I believe Janet -- Janet Peters-Lobue was certified in []} 13 calibration. 14 Q All right. 15 And she had done it, as you testified? t 16 A Yes, sir. 17 Q But did she, as part of her job, assist you in 18 calibrations? 19 A No, sir. 20 0 Did she -- she didn't supervise you in calibrations, I s 21 take it? 22 A Correct. 23 Q And when she gave you the calibrations area, that was
~
24 the last she had to do with the area, I take it? ( 25 A Yes, sir. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
1 7580 l O 1 Q All right. 2 Aside from Ms. Lobue, then, was there anyone else ! 3 who -- on site who was qualified, certified and 4 experienced in calibrations, aside from yourself? 5 A Not to my knowledge.
- 6 Q You basically had to figure things out for yourself; is 7 that a fair understanding of your testimony?
8 A Basically, yes. 2 9 Q All right.
.I 10 And you had the procedure to go by, and you had to 11 interpret the procedure by yourself?
12 A Yes, sir. 13 Q All right. 14 You testified to Mr. Miller that the procedure was ! 15 vague in a number of respects? - l 16 A Yes, sir. i l 17 Q To the extent it was vague, did you have to come up with 18 your own best interpretation of that procedure and ! 19 how -- as to its application to your work? I 20 A Yes, sir, i 21 Q Now, Mr. Miller examined you and identified a number of l 22 audits that had been performed of the calibrations area. l 23 Do you recall that? 24 A Yes, sir. j 25 Q And I think some of those audits you remember being l l Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7581 O 1 aware of and some you weren't sure that you could recall 2 at this time? 3 A Yes, sir. 4 Q Were you commonly audited in the calibrations area? 5 A Yes, very frequently. 6 Q All right. 7 And do you have an understanding of why you were i 8 frequently audited? J 9 Was it because your auditing work -- I mean, your 10 calibrations work was deficient in some respect? Is i 11 that why you were audited? 12 A My understanding was that -- that the auditors liked to (]} 13 do my area first because it was clean and it was -- it 14 was the easiest to do, so they usually done my area 15 first. 16 0 Okay. 17 What do you mean it was clean and easy to do? 18 A They rarely found any problems with it. 19 Q All right. _ 20 Why -- why do you say it was easy to do? 21 A My -- I was very proud of my job, and my records were 22 usually in -- in very good order. It was easy to go 23 through, and it -- I just -- I was audited very 24 frequently. . 25 0 All right. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. " Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
9 d 7582 ( l Auditors have to -- and I guess I'm not trying to
- 2 be facetious, but I think of -- a police officer has to 3 give so many parking tickets.
4 I assume auditors have to do a certain amount of } ' 5 audit work as a part of their job? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 MR. MILLER: I'm going to object, your Honor. J 8 I don't believe that this witness has any i f 9 qualifications to express an opinion.
! 10 MR. GUILD: He's expressing his 11 understanding; and it's clear that he is not an auditor.
1 12 Maybe you can answer the question Mr. Miller raised l (]) ,
- 13 mote directly.
14 BY MR. GUILD:
- 15 0 What's the basis for your understanding of why the i
16 auditors liked to do calibrations? ~l 17 A Because it was easy to do. . 18 Q No. That's your conclusion. 19 But how did you reach that conclusion? 20 Did an auditor ever tell you that? Did you ever 21 talk about why they audited calibrations every time? 22 A I was told frequently that they liked to do my area 23 because it was clean. t 24 Q Now, you've got to help us, because this is a record l 25 and -- and we're trying to understand what the extent of i . Sonntag Recorting Service, Ltd. t Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
7583 () . I 1 1 your knowledge is and why, where it comes from. l 2 When you say you were told, who told you? 3 A I had what I felt was a very good working rapport with 4 the CECO auditors at that time; and I was commended by 5 them on several occasions for -- for my area being free 6 from deficiencies. 7 Q Okay. 8 So were the auditors -- the CECO auditors in this 9 case -- were they the source of your understanding that 10 they liked to do your area because it was clean and easy 11 to do? 12 A Yes, sir. (]} 13 Q Okay. 14 Now, I gather that calibrations work, as we've 15 talked about, is easy to audit because it's a matter of 16 comparing one piece of paper with another piece of 17 paper, as Mr. Miller did with you on a number of 18 occasions? 19 A Basically, yes, sir. 20 Q And they are all a matter of looking at files that are 21 right there, easily accessible? 22 A Yes, sir. 23 Q And your files were ready retrievable, weren't they?
- 24 A Yes, sir.
25 Q All they had to do was look up a particular tool Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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i 7584 O 1 folder -- it's identified by that tool, is 'it not? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q All they had to do is look up a particular tool in your 4 particular file, your Form 77 file? 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q And compare those to see whether or not the entries on l 7 your Form 77 matched up with the contents of your tool 8 file? 9 A Basically, yes, sir. i 10 Q And then maybe, as you suggested, go to the ICR log, i 11 which is another concrete single document or -- or bound I 12 volume of documents and look there for entries? (} l 13 A Yes, sir, i i 14 Q And that's what they did when they audited you; right? 15 A Yes, sir. ! 16 Q All right. f 17 And is -- I don't mean to put words in your mouth, 18 but is that understanding of the -- the circumstances of 19 the -- of the calibrations work the -- does that l 20 represent what you mean when you said it was a clean , i 21 area? 22 A Yes, sir. ) 23 Q You don't mean dirty clean, you mean -- l 24 A I mean that it was free from deficiencies. ( 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That wasn't the Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 , (312) 232-0262
7585 O 1 objectionable question, Mr. Guild. 2 You haven't posed that question again, and I take 3 it you don't intend to, so you don't have to go any 4 further on this.
'5 MR. GUILD: Okay.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The question related to the 7 practices of auditors, which the witness is not 8 competent to discuss. 9 , MR. GUILD: Right, your E nor. 10 Well, to the extent he was told or to the extent 11 that he observed, I think he is competent to discuss it, 12 Mr. Chairman. (]) 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No. I don't mean about -- 14 MR. GUILD: Right, I understand. 15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- the ease of -- as long as 16 you are not repeating the question, let's just go on. 17 MR. GUILD: All right, sir. 18 BY MR. GUILD: 19 Q You stated you were complimented often by the auditors 20 after they finished auditing your work? 21 A Yes, sir.
\
i 22 0 Was that even in cases where they found a paper that had ~ 23 an error in it? 24 A Often times, there were a few -- a few items that were
- 25 found; but when you -- when you relate that to the 2
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ~ Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 -
7586 O 1 number of -- of documents that I did in a month, it 2 was -- it was so minor that they couldn't believe 3 there -- there were that few deficiencies. 4 Q That's your understanding -- 5 A Yes, sir. 6 0 -- of the auditors' reaction? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q All right. 9 And my question was: 10 Even in those cases where they found a few 11 deficiencies, paper work errors, because of the 12 comparatively large scope of you'r document work, did, in (]} 13 fact, even in those cases, the auditors compliment you ! 14 on your work? 15 A Yes, sir. 16 Q Did any of your management ever characterize your 17 auditing track record, if you will, one way or the 18 other, your Comstock management? 19 A Mr. Seese was the only one that I can recall that ever 20 complimented me on -- on doing an excellent job in my 21 area. J 22 Q All right. 23 Can you recall the substance of what Mr. Seese had 24 to say to you? 25 A I believe it was after -- after one of our QA auditors l Monntaa Renortino Service, Ltd.
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i Geneva, Illinois 60134 232-0262 l (312)
7587 ( l l i 1 from Hillside -- 1 2 Q Comstock auditor corporate? 3 A Yes, sir, yes, sir. 4 -- came Ocwn and done an audit. He didn't find , 5 anything at all; and Mr. Seese commented at that time 6 that we can always count on you to be -- to -- to pass
- 7 an audit.
8 Q Okay. 9 Can you recall when that happened? 10 I assume it was before the summer of 1984 when you 11 started having these run-ins that you have described to 12 Mr. Miller? []} 13 A Yes, sir, yes, sir. 14 I can't recall the date. ] ! 15 0 All right. 16 Do you know whether it was about any of the audits 17 that Mr. Miller showed you? Do you recall? 18 A I can't recall -- j 19 Q All right. - 20 A -- specifically. 21 Q All right, sir. 22 Well, did your work basically remain the same? Did 23 the scope of your work or your responsib'ilities change 24 over time at all, Mr. Seeders, in any material way? ( 25 A Not in -- not really any major changes, no. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7588 1 O 1 0 The calibrations work? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q Now, you already testified about having to take on 4 training and receiving -- 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q -- and other duties, but focusing on calibrations: 7 In calibrations, you might have had more files over 8 time, but basically the work was the same from the 9 beginning to the end of your job, was it not? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q All right'. 12 Well, did your job performance, as best you are ((J 13 aware of -- did it change over time? 14 Did you do a worse job at the end of your tenure as 15 the Calibrations Inspector, in your judgment? 16 A I -- I believe I -- I tried to do the best -- the best , 17 job possible always. 18 Q Okay. 19 Well, aside from your motive or your intentions, 20 are you aware of any deterioration in your work over 21 time at -- in the calibrations area? 22 A No, sir. 23 0 Okay, okay. l _ 24 Let's talk about Mr. Seltmann now. 25 Mr. Seltmann is presently the Quality Assurance sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. __ Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
1 7589 () 1 Manager at L. K. Comstock and he supervises Mr. DeWald 2 and Quality Control Inspectors. 3 Do you understand that to be the case? e 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q At the time that you were Calibrations Inspector, Mr. 6 Seltmann was the QA Engineer and perhaps the QA Manager. 7 I'm not sure when he took that title. 8 But he wasn't over Mr. DeWald or over the QC 9 Inspectors, was he? 10 A Yes, that's correct, 11 Q All right. 12 You had some dealings with Mr. Seltmann that you (]} 13 have recounted to Mr. Miller. 14 Prior to the summer of '84, when Mr. Seltmann had 15 those dealings with you, had Mr. Seltmann supervised 16 your work in calibrations? l 17 A No, sir. 18 Q Had he ever done any calibrations work? 19 A Not to my knowledge. 20 Q Had he ever personally come in and reviewed your 21 calibrations work? 22 A No, sir. 23 Q Had he ever asked you whether or not you were having any 24 problems in calibrations? l 25 A No, sir. l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
l 7590 l O 1 Q Had he had any involvement at all in the calibrations 2 work, to your knowledge, Mr. Seltmann? 3 A Not to my knowledge. , 4 Q Now, I take it, from your responses to Mr. Miller, that 5 you have made mistakes in your calibrations work? 6 A Certainly, f 7 Q And I take it that you don't claim to be perfect in your 8 job, do you? 9 A No, sir. ; 10 Q You said you do the best you can. 11 Is that your belief, that you do the best you can? 12 A Yes, sir. {]) 13 Q Up until the summer of '84, did your management ever 14 state to you in substance that doing the best that you 15 could, as you understood your work, was not good enough; ) 16 that you weren't doing an adequate job in calibrations? 17 A No, sir. 18 0 When you made mistakes, Mr. Seeders, were those mistakes F 19 where you -- I want to generalize now, and I'm not going ( 20 to ask you some specifics. l 21 But as you reflect back on it, were those mistakes 22 where'you said, "Well, I know I should do this, but I'm
- 23 not going to do this, because I'm too busy or too lazy 24 or it isn't important"?
( 25 Were they mistakes of commission where you thought Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 l
6 7591 0 1 about it and you said, "I'm not going to do something I 2 should do"? 3 A No, sir. 4 0 What kind of mistakes were they, if you can generalize 5 about the kind of mistakes you might have made? 6 A Oversights, forgetting to add a date in or something. 7 It was -- it was common practice for the inspector 8 to work with the auditor in -- in -- in the area, and a 9 lot of times auditors would have questions about your 10 area that you could clear up right there on the spot. 11 (Indicating . ) 12 Q All right. {]) 13 And those are the kinds of errors you are talking 14 about, the kinds of errors that you -- that you and the 15 auditors identified when you were working on the audit 16 together? 17 A Oftentimes the auditors would get confused about the 18 area as to the exact criteria of the area. 19 Q All right. 20 Taking audits: 21 An audit is conducted, and you oftentimes see the 22 auditor in the process of looking through your 23 calibrations records, and you assist them in doing that 24 I heard you say? ( 25 A Yes, sir. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7592 0 1 Q Okay. 2 The auditor writes up his findings in an audit 3 report such as the reports Mr. Miller showed you; right? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q Now, as a matter of course at Comstock, did your 6 management provide you with copies of those reports and 7 ask you to comment and correct, if necessary, factual 8 errors, if there be any, in those reports? 9 A It was common practice for management t -- to come to 10 the inspector and -- and actually go over the audit; 11 make sure that what the auditor found was what he 12 (]) thought he found. , 13 Q All right. 14 So even where there were audit reports that found 15 what the auditor characterized as discrepancies or 16 errors, your management would come to you and give -- 17 and you would have a chance to say to your management, 18 "No, he didn't quite have it right. Here's how it 19 really was," in effect? l 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Oftentimes the auditors didn't have an exact . l 22 understanding of the area, i i l 23 Q All right.
/ 1 24 Up until the events of the summer of '84 that led O 25 to your threatened termination and transfer, you had i
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 v---, m.-. ,---
7593 ( l never been disciplined for an audit finding, had you? ! 2 A No, sir. 3 Q Let's look at a few of the audits that Mr. Miller talked 4 to you about. 5 Let's look at Applicant's Exhibit 80 for 6 identification, and this is an audit report by Comstock 7 Engineering, C QA 368, August 15 to 17, '83. 8 MR. GUILD: Perhaps I could ask counsel if he 9 could make a copy available to the witness, or I can 10 show him my copy. 11 MR. MILLER: Was there a stack of the 12 exhibits in front of you? (} 13 MR. GUILD: Fine. 14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild. , 15 (Indicating.) 16 MR. GUILD: Thank you, Judge. 17 Br MR. GUILD: 18 Q Mr. Seeders, I'm putting before you a copy of 19 Applicant's Exhibit 80 for identification. This is not 20 in evidence, I understand. 21 (Indicating . ) 22 There's an audit finding here with respect to 23 calibrations. 24 Let's see if I can pour through it. 25 It appears to be C QA 368-3. Finding 3 I guess 1 i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ~ Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7594 O 1 that's what it menaa. 2 It's a few pages into the document. There's the 3 form and then there's the finding. 4 Do you have that? 5 A (Indicating . ) ; 6 Q Yes. 7 Let me see here. 368-5 I think is what Mr. Miller 8 was asking you about -- 9 MR. MILLER: Yes. 10 BY MR. GUILD: 11 0 -- the pin gauge sets. 12 Do you recall that testimony? /]} 13 A Yes, sir. 14 Q Okay. 15 What is a pin gauge set, Mr. Seeders? ' 16 A A -- a pin gauge set is a set of pins that are -- are 17 manufactured to a certain size. 18 We were using this pin gauge set to determine the 19 calibration of -- of crimpers and strippers used in the 20 field. 21 At the time I talked to Mr. Miller, I testified 22 that only a few of these -- these pins were used -- were 23 actually used in checking the calibration of the 24 crimpers and strippers. ( 25 Q Okay. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneve, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7595 O 1 A The company went ahead and bought a complete set, which 2 I believe there were over 50 pins, ranging from very, 3 very small up to -- up to a quarter-inch, I believe. 4 (Indicating.) 5 Q All right. 6 Well, the finding apparently was that PTL -- which, 7 I gather, calibrated these pin gauges; is that right? 8 A Yes, we sent this pin -- we sent the complete pin gauge 9 set over to PTL for -- for calibration on a yearly 10 basis. 11 Q And did they calibration -- calibrate all the pins in 12 the set, the 50 pins, even those that weren't used in []} 13 your work? 14 A Yes, sir. 15 Q Okay. 16 And do you know whether or not the two pin gauges 17 that PTL found were rejected for failure to meet the 18 procedure requirements or plus or minus two-one 19 thousandths of an inch -- whether these two pin gauges 20 were, in fact, used in the Comstock scope of work? 21 JUDGE COLE: Mr. Guild, I believe it's 22 two-ten thousandths. 23 MR. GUILD: I slipped a zero there, Judge. 24 Sorry. 25 BY MR. GUILD: Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7596
) i 1 0 Two-ten thousandths?
2 A Those -- those specific pins would never be used on thac 3 job. 4 Q All right. 5 Nonetheless -- 6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's because you didn't 7 have cable that size that you would be crimping or 8 stripping; is that it? 9 THE WITNESS: Well, that's because the tools 10 that we were using on the job would never require those 11 pins. 12 BY MR. GUILD: (]} 13 Q The crimpers and strippers? 14 A Yes, sir, yes, sir. 15 Q And, in turn, as the Judge points out, because you 16 didn't have that size cable to crimp or strip? 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q All right. 19 Nonetheless, I think you told Mr. Miller 20 technically an ICR should have been issued for these 21 pins? 22 A Yes, sir, technically it should have been issued. 23 Q And you didn't do that? 24 A Yes, sir. 25 Q And you didn't do this. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 232-0262 (312)
7597 () I was that an error? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q Do you know whether or not at the time -- this is now 4 going back to some ancient history, but do you recall, 5 at the time when you didn't issue an ICR, that you had 6 in mind the fact the pins weren't used in your scope of 7 work? 8 A Oh, yes, we knew this. 9 Q So you did have in mind, when you didn't issue an ICR, 10 the fact that these pins were not part of your work? 1 11 A Right. 12 Q Okay. (]} 13 But technically they should have had an ICR anyhow? 14 A Technically there should have been an ICR. 15 Q That was a matter of judgment that you exercised at the 16 time. 17 I take it, in retrospect, you agree your judgment 18 was wrong? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q Did you get reprimanded for that one? 21 A No, sir. 22 Q Okay. 23 And did you discuss that with your management; do i 24 you remember? 25 A I was -- I was directed by Mr. DeWald to go ahead and -- ' , T
~
I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7598 1 and issue the ICR's, and they would be closed out 2 that -- that the pins would never be used so no 3 corrective action would be necessary. 4 Q Okay, all right. 5 Did Mr. DeWald, as far as you understand, accept 6 your explanation of that? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q Applicant's Exhibit 81 for identification identifies a 9 discrepancy with respect to the photocopying of portions 10 of Form 23's, and we went through this yesterday -- Mr. ) 11 Miller went through this yesterday with you. 12 And I believe you stated, without looking at the (]} 13 actual forms that were photocopied, you could not recall 14 specifically which specific parts of the form were the , 15 photocopied portions? 16 A Right. 17 Q All right. 18 But did I understand your testimony correctly that 19 whatever parts of the form, your recollection was that 20 you did not photocopy the checklists or your signature? 21 A Yes, sir. j I 22 Q You photocopied only the non-unique but recurring l 23 information that did not reflect the individual 24 inspection findings that you made for each calibration 25 inspection? Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 l - . - _ - - _
7599 i () 1 A Well, the way we were trained, that -- the piece of 2 paper that -- that we signed, our signature would 1 3 authenticate that piece of paper, and that if, in fact, l 4 you Xeroxed a heading, your signature in black ink on 5 that piece of paper would authenticate that piece of i 5 paper. That's the way we were trained.
\
7 Q All right. l l 8 The handwriting, which has not been really been 9 authenticated but was presented by Mr. Miller as part of I 10 the marked exhibit, Applicant's Exhibit 81, which 11 apparently is the handwriting of the auditor, states -- 1 - 12 let's assume it is -- states, at Page -- I guess it's 2 i []} 13 of 7 -- I think it's 3 of 7 -- well, it's the first 14 handwritten page after the form at the back. The audit 15 report states, in part, "The check marks indicating 16 acceptance of calibration and the initials of the QC 17 Inspector that performed the calibration were 18 photocopied." 19 Now, to the best of your recollection, you never 20 photocopied those portions of the forms? 21 A That's true. 22 Q And as you understand it, the auditor simply is wrong in , 23 that respect? t 24 A I would have to -- I.would have to see the document. 25 (Indicating.) l l
)
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262 .
- . - - -_ . _. - - -- . - . - = _ ,
i I l 7600 ~ O 1 Q Okay. 2 Have you seen those documents since you left the -- 3 the calibrations inspection work? 4 A No, sir. 5 Q Did you see them, do you recall, after December of 1983, 6 when this report was writteni i 7 A No, sir. 8 Q Did your management sit down with you and go through 9 which portions of the forms were actually photocopied 10 and to determine whether or not you had actually 11 photocopied your signature or an inspection check mark? 12 A No, sir. (} , 13 Q Did they reprimand you for that? 14 A No, sir. 15 Q Okay, all right. 16 Mr. Miller show you a document that's been marked 17 as Exhibit 82. This was a warning. 18 It's the failure to return with a doctor's excuse. 19 Do you remember that incident? 20 A Yes, sir. ] 21 Q Okay, 22 What was your understanding at the time -- and the 23 time is December of 1983 -- of the company's policy with
- 24 respect to taking sick and personal time and -- and
( 25 getting or not getting a medical excuse? Monntaa Renortina Service. Ltd.
~
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7601 ( l A It was all the Inspectors' understanding that we were 2 required to call in in the morning to our Lead or the 3 supervisor or to Mr. DeWald and state that we would not 4 be in that day so they could make arrangements to make 5 sure that day's work got done. 6 Q All right. 7 And -- and did you call in? 8 A Yes, sir. 9 Q Okay. 10 And your understanding was that was -- what was 11 required of you was to call in -- 12 A Yes, sir. (]) 13 0 -- as you did? 14 All right. 15 Was it your understanding at the time that the 16 company policy was that you had~to provide a medical 17 excuse -- 18 A No, sir. 19 Q -- or a doctor's slip is what I mean to say. 20 A No, sir. 21 Q Okay. 22 And how did you first learn that the company was 23 stating that there was a policy that a doctor's slip was 24 going to be required? 25 A On the -- on the last day that I called in, Mr. DeWald i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7602 0 1 left a message with all Inspectors that, when I called , 2 in, they were to make sure that he talked to me that 3 morning. 4 So I called in that morning and I asked for Mr. 5 Phillips. Mr. -- 6 Q Your Lead? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q Okay. 9 A Mr. Phillips had answered the phone. I said, " Larry, I 10 won't be in today. I'm sick." Larry said, "Well, Mr. 11 DeWald informed us that I have to have him talk to you," 12 so I said, " Fine." (]} 13 Mr. DeWald said, "Why aren't you coming in today," 14 and I said, "Well, I'm sick. I won't be in today." He 15 said, "I'm requiring you to bring in a doctor's slip." I 16 said, "Mr. DeWald, the company policy does not require 17 me to bring in a doctor's slip." He said, "I'm the QC 18 Manager and I can do anything I want. I am requiring 19 you to bring in a doctor's slip", and I told him again, 20 "Mr. DeWald, we are not required to bring in a doctor's
,21 slip. I'm calling in. That's what I'm required to do."
22 So when I got back to work -- when I got back to 23 work that Monday, Mr. DeWald and Mr. Seese called me in 24 the office to give me the warning. l (~)'
's- 25 Q Okay.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. , Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7603 O ! 1 And your previous testimony was that you don't 2 recall signing this particular warning? 3 A To the best of my knowledge, I refused to sign that 4 warning. 5 Q You do recall objecting to the warning? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q All right. 8 And you stated your objection to Mr. DeWald and Mr. 9 Seese, I take it, at the time they gave you the warning? 1 10 A Mr. DeWald was very angry when -- when I walked into the 11 office, and he said, "Where is my doctor's slip," and I 12 said, "Mr. DeWald, I'm not required to bring in a (]} 13 doctor's slip," and he gave me the warning. I 14 He -- he told me that he was the QC Manager and he 15 can do anything he wanted to do, " Sign this warning," 16 and I -- I gave it back to him. I said, "Mr. DeWald, I I 17 am not going to sign that warning. I am not required to 18 bring in a doctor's slip." 19 Q All right. 20 Did the company subsquently -- Mr. DeWald 21 subsequently promulgate a policy to the effect that 22 thereafter written warnings would be -- written doctor's 23 slips would be required? 24 A Yes, sir. Right after that, he put out a memo to all 25 Inspectors that doctor's slips would be required. l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7604 1 () 1 Q All right. 2 You were, in effect, the test case, I gather? 3 A Yes, sir. ; 4 Q Okay. 5 But as you understood before your case, they never 6 had such a policy? 7 A That is correct. 8 Q Now, do I understand correctly that in -- at the time 9 Inspectors had a certain number of sick and personal 10 days they were allowed; is that right? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q All right. (]) 13 And can you remember how many there were? 14 A I believe it was 10. 15 I can't remember the exact number. 16 Q All right. 17 And sick and personal times were -- personal days 18 were taken interchangeably as a group up to that maximum 19 of, if it was 10, 10 in a year; is that right? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q All right. 22 At the end of a year, you lost your sick and 23 personal time? 24 Untaken but accrued sick and personal time, was it ( 2.5 carried over to the next year? l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. a Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
~
7605 ()~s i l 1 A No, sir. l l 2 Q So you lost it at the end of the year? l 3 A I can't say. 4 Q Was it calendar year end, do you recall, was it year on 5 the job? 6 A I believe it was January to January. 7 Q Okay. 8 And I take it at the end of your -- when you have 9 exhausted your sick and personal time, you formally go 10 on no-pay status; is that right? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 And at that point, they stop paying you for your sick (]} Q , 13 and personal time? 14 A Yes, sir. 15 Q But generally is it -- is it the understanding -- was it 16 your understanding at the time that you were entitled to 17 take up to your allotted sick and personal time? 18 A Yes, sir. 1 19 Q But you had to make arrangements to let your supervision 20 know that you weren't coming in so somebody else could 21 fill in for your job? 22 A Yes, sir. 23 0 I take it in the calibrations area, when you came back, l 24 you had to do whatever work had backed up when you , 25 weren't in? l ! l l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262 '
7606 O 1 A Yes, sir. 2 Q Nobody else did it, did they? 3 A That's correct. 4 Q So you really didn't have any incentive for taking time 5 off? 6 A It was definitely to my disadvantage to take any time 7 off. 8 Q And as you stated, you customarily worked overtime when 9 it was available to you? 10 A Yes, sir, always. 11 Q All right. 12 Now, the next document that Mr. Miller showed you (]} 13 was the audit -- CECO audit -- of May 21, 1984. 14 It's inarked as Applicant's Exhibit 83, and I guess 15 it's also in -- 16 MR. BERRY: 27. ( 17 BY MR. GUILD: 18 Q -- as Applicant's Exhibit 27 for identification 19 This is the audit -- as I recall, the May, '84, 20 audit that talks about the three ICR's that were not 21 issued for out-of-calibration conditions. 22 And as I recall your testimony, you said you didn't 23 see it at the time it was published; is that right? 24 A Yes, sir, yes, sir. ( 25 Q I gather you learned about its findings through the l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. . l Geneva, Illinois 60134 {312) 232-0262
l 7607 0 1 course of events that you described to Mr. Miller. 2 But you never saw this document -- 3 A Yes, sir. 4 0 -- until Mr. Miller showed it to you at your deposition? 5 A Correct. 6 Q Now, I take it that you don't argue with the fact that 7 these ICR's were, in fact, not issued; correct? 8 A I don't know 'that. 9 Q You don't know. 10 Well, you -- 11 A Oh, for the pin gauges? 12 Q For the pin gauges. (} 13 A Yes, that's correct, that's right. 14 JUDGE COLE: That they were issued? 15 THE WITNESS: That they were not. 16 JUDGE COLE: They were not issued? 17 THE WITNESS: They were not issued. 18 BY MR. GUILD: 19 Q Do you acknowledge that they represented errors on your . 20 part not to issue those ICR's? 21 A Yes, sir, yes, sir. 22 Q And as the page indicates, action was taken with respect I 23 to those errors on your part, and ICR's, as indicated, l 24 were, in fact, issued? 25 A Yes, sir. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
l 7608 O 1 Q And those are the ICR's that Mr. Miller -- two ICR's Mr. 2 Miller directed your attention to in the ICR log 3 extracts that he showed you? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q All right. 6 Now, there was a Non-Conformance Report issued for 7 a crimper. 8 Why was a Non-Conformance Report issued for that 9 condition as opposed to an ICR? Can you tell from 10 looking at the audit report if that refreshes your 11 recollection? 12 A I believe, if -- if I remember correctly, because this {]} 13 was an -- an audit finding, CECO asked that this -- 14 Commonwealth Edison asked that this crimper be written j 15 up on a Non-Conformance Report. That's -- 16 Q Do you have any other understanding of why an NCR was 17 issued for that one other than CECO asked you to do it? 18 A Well, an NCR is generated so that Commonwealth Edison 19 has a chance to see it and make a -- make a decision on 20 the -- on the work that was done with it or, you know, 21 what to do with it. 22 Q Okay. 23 As I understand, ICR's are in-house at Comstock? j 24 A Yes, sir. 25 Q NCR's go to the client, to Edison, and Edison has to i Sonntag Reportina Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7609 i O 1 process them and -- 2 A Review them. l 3 0 -- and disposition them? B 4 A Yes, sir. ; 5 0 And concur in their disposition? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q And in this case, it was a CECO audit, and as you 8 understand it, that is why in this particular instance 9 an NCR was generated? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q And you did that? 12 Yes, sir. (]) A 13 Q Now, at the time this audit was issued -- and I know you 14 didn't see it, but it's -- it is dated received Comstock 15 5/29 -- May 29, 1984. .
. 16 At that time did your management discipline you in 17 any -- in any way for the -- for the findings with 18 respect to the ICR's that you didn't issue?
19 A No, sir. h f 20 Q You've recounted conversations you had with Messrs. y
. 21 Seltmann and Saklak and Seese and DeWald about this that 22 occurred later.
( 23 But aside from what occurred later that you 24 testified to, management did not get this audit report, O 25 bring you in and reprimand you for your conduct, for the Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7610 0 1 errors that you made, did they? 2 A No, sir. , 3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild, we only need it 4 once. 5 MR. GUILD: Fine. 6 BY MR. GUILD: 7 Q Let's return to that subject momentarily. 8 But Applicant's Exhibit 84, I believe, was a -- at 1 9 least a couple documents bearing your signature, and the 10 first of which is a handwritten form, and the subject 11 matter is a measuring device called a Pyrocon. 12 A Yes, sir. (]) 13 Q And it's identified as L. K. C. No. 8960. 14 Now, I gather that this device was used to -- to 15 calibrate the stationary rod oven? l I 16 A Yes, sir. 17 Q And it's the stationary rod oven that is listed in the l> 1 18 Form 23A's that are attached to what Mr. Miller hr-19 identified as Applicant's Exhibit 84; correct? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q All right. 22 Now, let's look at those 23A's. 23 What is the significance of the entry under the 24 standard number that appears on these 23A forms? What O i 25 does that mean? l l
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Sonntag ReDorting Service, Ltd. , Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
e l 7611 0 1 l 1 A That -- that was the date that the Pyrocon was ! 1 2 calibrated. 3 Q Okay. ; 4 The date that it was due for calibration? 5 A Or the date that it was due for calibration, yes, sir. 6 Q All right. 7 Now, how often was the Pyrocon to be calibrated, if 8 you recall? 9 A I believe that was on a yearly basis. 10
- Q Once a year?
11 A Yes, sir. 12 Okay. () Q 13 Well, the first document shows an 8/15/84 date; the 14 second document, another 23A, shows a 5/17/84 date -- 15 all right -- the third shows an 8/15/84-date; the fourth 16 shows a 5/17/84 date; and the last one shows a -- the 17 next one shows a 6/1/84 date; and the final one a 6/1/84 18 date. All right. 19 Now, I take it, if it's the same Pyrocon, it should 20 have only one annual calibration due date? 21 A Yes, sir, yes, sir. 22 Q Does that suggest to you that those were errors in some 23 respect in entering the annual calibration due date for
- 24 the Pyrocon?
25 A Yes, sir. l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
1 l l l 7612 l O 1 Q And is there any relationship between those errors in 2 entering the annual calibration due date and the error l 3 that you acknowledged to Mr. Miller that is reflected in 4 the first page of the form, and that is, the error 5 that's stated that the calibration -- that the Pyrocon 6 was, in effect, not required to be recalibrated before 7 it went back to the field? 8 A I don't understand your question. 9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Nor do I, Mr. Guild. 10 MR. GUILD: Okay, all right. I 11 BY MR. GUILD: () 12 0 Well, can you -- do you have any understanding of why 13 there's -- why there are erroneous calibration due 14 dates? 15 How could an error like that occur, as you -- as 16 you understand? l 17 A Evidently -- evidently, I copied down the wrong standard 18 numbe r . 19 Q All right. 20 A I -- I put the wrong standard number on the Form 23A's. 21 Q The 960 is an error in one or more of these forms; is 22 that what you -- 23 A Yes, sir. 24 0 -- believe it is? ' (:) 25 A Yes, sir. l l l Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd. ! Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
7613 O 1 Q How about with respect to Page 1 of Exhibit 84: 2 Do you have an understanding of how the error 3 occurred that's reflected on your first page there? i 4 A From looking at these documents, I believe that the -- 5 this first page is correct. I believe I entered the 6 wrong standard number on the 23A's. 7 Q All right. 8 So it was a different Pyrocon? 9 A Well, this -- this Pyrocon was unique in that it -- it 10 was -- it was one of a kind. 11 Q Okay. 12 A Okay. (]} _ 13 We normally used regular thermometers to calibrate 14 the rod ovens. 15 Q All right. 16 A Somehow I put the -- I put the wrong standard number 17 down. 18 Q All right. 19 So your belief now is that the first page is 20 correct, but the standard numbers on the 23A's were in 21 error? ) 22 A Yes, sir, l 23 Q All right. I 24 Would you have to do some more research to really 25 come up with a definitive answer to this question? ) l I Sonntag Reporting Service, L,d. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7614 l O 1 A Yes, sir, yes, sir. 2 Q And I take it you haven't seen these documents since -- 3 before Mr. Miller -- since the time you wrote them up 4 until the time Mr. Miller showed you at your deposition? i l 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q All right. 7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Which brings the Board to a 8 certain comment now, Mr. Miller. 9 I want to ask you how much weight you expect us to 10 give to all the alleged errors that Mr. Seeders made to 1 11 the extent that no one has ever given Mr. Seeders the Q 12 matters to review? 13 We have the NRC-that reviews some of the matters. 14 They are not interested in finding -- I'm talking about 15 Mr. Snyder's work and other things that have been put 16 together with regard to Mr. Seeders. 17 Apparently everyone who have reviewed that and is 18 presenting that has an interest that's somewhat hostile 19 to Mr. Seeders: Mr. Snyder, who managed to step into Mr. 20 Seeders' position; the company, because Mr. Seeders and 21 the company's position, of course, are adverse. 22 The NRC doesn't want to question when a company 23 says that one of its employees has committed errors. 24 So we get to a position where we really don't have l l O I 25 an adversary position with regard to the matters that i 1 l sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. , Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
7615 O 1 Mr. Seeders allegedly fouled up on. 2 I just want to point out that I think we could give 3 a little more weight to these matters if Mr. Seeders had 4 had an opportunity to examine everything and support his
'5 own position, but we don't have that situation right 6 now.
7 MR. MILLER: Your Honor, it seems to me that 8 the basic issue -- and may the witness be excused? 9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, sure. Okay. 10 (Witness excbsed.) 11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I didn't think that I was 12 tipping the witness off to anything. I mean, I -- () 13 MR. MILLER: Oh, no. 14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: But if you think that what 15 you have to say might suggest something to him, it's 16 fine. I agree he shouldn't be here. 17 MR. MILLER: Your Honor, it seems to me that 18 the issue that the Board must decide is whether or not 19 Mr. Seeders was transferred because he raised quality or 20 safety concerns and his transfer was somehow in 21 retaliation for having done so. 22 It is our position that Mr. Seeders was transferred 23 not because he raised any safety or quality concerns, 24 but because his work was not satisfactory according to 25 the reviews that were conducted by his superior, Mr. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ~- Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7616 O 1 Seltmann, and by his colleague, Mr. Snyder, after Mr. 2 Seeders -- well, you've heard the testimony as to the 3 course of the review over the summer of 1984 of his f 4 calibration records. i 1 5 I don't believe that the question of whether or not 6 Mr. Seeders got due process in terms of his explanation 7 for these errors is an issue that is really before the 8 Board. 9 I think that the question is whether or not there 10 were, in fact, errors, and I believe that the 11 documentary -- 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, just referring to {]} 13 that, whether there were, in fact, errors, what we have 14 is Mr. Snyder, who may very well have been after Mr. 15 Seeders' job, and got it after doing that review; the 16 company, which has an adverse position to Mr. Seeders 17 being able to review it, but Mr. Seeders not being able 18 to review it to say, "Well, then, maybe some of the 19 things chat Mr. Snyder said were not correct, were 20 actually done competently and were correct." 21 MR. MILLER: Your Honor, one of the exhibits 22 in evidence is the NCR that was generated as a result of 23 Mr. Snyder's review; and to suggest that that somehow 24 was done and is being closed out for motives other than () 25 to resolve safety concerns that resulted from, in part, sonntaa Recorting Service. utd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 ( (312) 232-0262 1 . - .
f 7617 O 1 Mr. Seeders' inability to do his job properly, I don't 2 know how to counter that kind of evidence, frankly, and 3 I don't believe that it is a fair burden for the 4 Applicant to have to shoulder in this case. , 5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, no, I'm not asking you , 6 to counter. I 7 If you want to know now that situation could have 8 been ameliorated, I'll tell you, frankly, you could have 9 shown all that to Mr. Seeders, but he wasn't shown any 10 of that, apparently, and that's what disturbs me now, 11 because everyone who had taken part in that had an 12 adverse interest to Mr. Seeders, and we're getting one (]) 13 side of the case now, and that's what the problem is; 4 14 that the NRC, which reviewed the NCR's, certainly wasn't i 15 about to question the company coming forward and 16 confessing error in doing something. They are delighted 17 to find out that a company would do that, and so they 18 had no interest in examining to see whether the NCR's 19 were legitimate or were substantial; and I'm saying that I i 20 no one had an interest in doing that. 21 So I'm just asking you whether you think we ought 22 to give it as full weight as if you had given Mr. i 23 Seeders all those reports and examinations and asked him l 24 to comment on it. 25 MR. MILLER: Your Honor, the answer to the -- 4 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7618 O 1 to your question directly is, yes I do, and I'll tell 2 you why. 3 It seems to me that -- that it is -- it is a little , 4 bit strange to suggest, in a proceeding where one of the 5 issues is that Commonwealth Edison and Comstock 6 emphasized quantity over quality and were pushing 7 production and were rushing to meet deadlines, that they 8 have created a situation in which there are NCR's that 9 have now been outstanding for almost two years arising 10 out of Mr. Seeders' -- in part, out of Mr. Seeders' 11 work, simply to build a case against Mr. Seeders, because that's the inference, I think, that you are
] 12 13 suggesting could be drawn from the fact that he did not 14 have an opportunity to, himself, justify his conduct; 15 and I don't know that that -- if that's the -- the 16 one -- an inference that the Board may draw, then I'm 17 going to have to consider what sort of a rebuttal case I 18 put on in addition to what I'm presently contemplating, l l
19 because -- 20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Mr. Miller, I'm not 21 giving you grounds to go further than your direct c:se 22 went with regard to that. 23 However, I will say I don't think it's unreasonable 1 24 for anyone to infer that, with regard to either Mr. I 25 Seeders' or Mr. Puckett's work, the company is not going Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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l Geneva, Illinois 60134 l c 123 232-0262 l
l 7619 1 l () 1 to take the position that they are proud of their work 2 and are going to be using them as exemplars of the 3 company's quality work. 4 I think with regard to Mr. Puckett and with regard 5 to Mr. Seeders, we can assume that the company would not 6 be disturbed too much to find that they had done things 7 incompetently. 8 So, you know, I just don't think that we must infer 9 that the company would be trying to show that they were 10 a model craftsman. 11 MR. MILLER: Well, your Honor, obviously 12 the -- the issue that the Board must decide is whether () 13 or not these men were, in Mr. Puckett's case, in Mr. 14 Seeders' case, transferred because they raised safety or l 15 quality concerns, and there are -- there's a whole l 16 series of contemporaneous events, but it seems to me 17 what the company did afterwards -- for example, I would 18 think that if, for example, following Mr. Puckett's 1 19 termination, if the company had simply taken the 20 concerns that he had raised and ignored them, that would I 21 be a very significant finding, and, frankly, I believe 22 that adverse inferences could be drawn with respect to l l l 23 the basis for his termination if that were the fact 24 Similarly, with Mr. Seeders. If, in fact, they had 25 said, "Mr. Seeders, your work is no good and you are Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ; Geneva, Illinois 60134 1 (31T.) 232-0262 l __ . - _ - - _. __ _ . - . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ __ _J
7620 I CE) 1 being terminated as a result," and then had simply 2 dropped the review and had not pursued the issues that 3 had been raised, I would think that, again, very adverse 4 inferences could be drawn. 5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, okay. That's not the 6 question, Mr. Miller. It's a question of going further. 7 With Mr. Puckett, he apparently had the opportunity 8 to review everything. He did a thorough job in that, 9 and we have no problem that way. 10 But yesterday was the first time that the Board 11 became aware of the fact that Mr. Seeders had never had 12 an opportunity to review all of the allegations made by (]) 13 the company about his incompetence; and I'm just saying 14 that not only did it surprise us, but it seems as though 15 it might have some effect on the weight that ought to be 16 given to the one-sided presentation, and I'm just making 17 that comment. 18 I am sorry to hear that Mr. Seeders didn't have 19 that opportunity, and I was happy to note that Mr. 20 Puckett did have the opportunity and was able to indulge 21 in a give and take on the basis that he was as informed 22 as the company was with regard to what was at issue. 23 Mr. Seeders apparently is not in that position. 24 Well, all I can do now is comment on it; and I 25 guess we'll just leave it at that.
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l 7621 O 1 MR. MILLER: Well, your Honor, I will tell 2 you that -- well, I don't want to argue my whole case 3 right now -- I really don't -- but we nave attempted to 4 focus on what, in our judgment, seems the most clear-cut 5 issue with respect to Mr. Seeders' performance, and 6 that's the generation of these Inspection Correction 7 Reports, and we believe when all the testimony is -- is 8 considered -- indeed, Mr. Seeders said today he -- he 9 made errors and so on, and I believe -- getting back to 10 the -- to your first question to me, that when all the 11 evidence -- when all the testimony is considered, Mr. 12 Seltmann's, Mr. Snyder's and Mr. Seeders' together, that (]} 13 the -- the weight of the evidence will be -- will be 14 there, and that this inference somehow that because he 15 wasn't allowed contemporaneous 1y to attempt to justify 16 what he had done should not be -- should not be given -- 17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Not just contemporaneously, 18 Mr. Miller. Up until now. 19 MR. MILLER: Well, now, that's -- your Honor, 20 again, I think that I can -- when I get my next chance 21 at Mr. Seeders, I can show you that -- that he was, in 22 fact, shown many of these documents during his 23 deposition; but it -- that -- really, that's not a 24 satisfactory way for having somebody attempt to look at ( 25 a detailed -- for example, Mr. -- he was shown Mr. l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. __ Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7622 O 1 Snyder's -- 2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's right, it isn't. 3 MR. MILLER: -- report, and that simply hasn't 4 been done. 5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well -- 6 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, let me add only a 7 couple of things. l 8 We're in an unusual position as we11. 9 Let's assume, just for argument sake, that the . 10 calibration records were a mess, and I don't think that, i 11 even conceding the fact that they were a mess, f necessar11y 1eads to the conc 1usion thae it was Mr. O 12 . 13 Seeders' fault. f 14 There'is all kinds of problems about programmatic 15 problems, lack of supervision, lack of training. 16 Laying that aside, I don't represent Mr. Seeders. 17 I wanted to put a little bit on the record of my i 18 relationship with Mr. Seeders just to have the Board get 19 a feel for the fact that I'm in a delicate position. f 20 He's a current employee of L. K. Comstock, he's 21 scared, and he is not in a position where I could -- l 22 could sit with him as I did with Mr. Puckett at the ' 23 Chairman's urging. 24 I think it was appropriate and essential to run .O l 25 through there records and say, "Here are the things that I l Sonntaa namortina Service, Ltd.
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7623 O 1 have happened'and here are the exhibits and this issue 2 and this issue the Board has raised." 3 I wasn't in a position to do that with Mr. Seeders. JUDGE GROSSMAN: The Board appreciates that; ! 4 5 and I'm sorry 1 didn't say it myself, because I had that j 6 in mind before he started testifying. 7 That is also another factor that I realize; but 8 continue, Mr. Guild. 9 MR. GUILD: And it -- it -- I think that it's 10 appropriate that the Board make the observations that it 11 has about Mr. Seeders since he is his only advocate. ' 12 I can be an advocate to a limited extent, to the (]) 13 extent our interests coincide, but I don't really 14 believe my buttressing the quality of Comstock's record 15 keeping is an appropriate point of advocacy because,- 4 16 frankly, I think there are a lot of problems I've seen. 17 But in the absence of any advocate for Mr. Seeders, 18 representation by counsel or a party whose interests do 19 support giving him a full opportunity to explain, I'm 4 20 trying the best I can to give him what I -- sort of an 21 ambush of getting at least some of these documents for
- 22 the first time yesterday and certainly for the detail 23 for the first time yesterday -- give him a chance to 24 explain himself on the record and let the chips fall 25 where they may on this score. Enough said.
Sonntag Reporting _ Service, Ltd. _, Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7624 () i 1 All I can tell you is that it seems to me that -- 2 that it is highly appropriate for the Board to recognize 3 that if Mr. Seeders had an opportunity to go out there 4 and look at all the documents involving the Pyrocon l 1 5 example, for example, there may be further explanations, 6 and we're asking him to surmise to a certain extent. 7 He can't go any further than that on the witness 8 stand with what he's got before him; and I think there's 9 fair inferences that should be drawn from that that do 10 undermine Applicant's assertion that we should simply j 11 conclude that these are all established deficiencies in 12 Mr. Seeders' work for which he should be charged. [} 13 MR. MILLER: Your Honor, I believe in the ]l j 14 adversary system, I really do; and when this 15 subcontention item was admitted, the Board then made 16 quite clear that Intervenors simply could not rest on 17 allegations, but had an obligation to come forward with 18 proof. 19 Mr. Seeders' performance, if you will, has been in 20 - issue, really, since.the beginning of -- of the case, 21 and I think that there was -- there was certainly an 22 opportunity, and I believe that Mr. Guild availed ! 23 himself of the opportunity, in terms of looking at 24 records, and it -- I think we all -- all recognize that () 25 his calibrations area is not overly complex from a , \ Sonntaa Reoortina Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 ,
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1 7625 ! i O O 1 technical sense, although the records themselves may be 2 difficult to trace from place to place. 3 As the Board may recall during Mr. Snyder's 4 examination, I spent probably more time than I should 5 have, in terms of holding the Board's attention, in 6 going through some details of how the records were kept 7 for individual torque wrenches in that case. 8 I think that it is not unreasonable, and, indeed, 9 in keeping with what I understood the Board's order with 10 respect to this contention to be, that if there is a 11 justification, if you will, for Mr. Seeders' stewardship 12 of the calibration records, that it was incumbent on the (]} , 13 Intervenors to bring it forward, and not to suggest, at 14 this point in time, that there is somehow an inference 15 that's to be drawn against the Applicant because Mr. 16 Seeders himself was not given the opportunity. 17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Intervenors already 18 indicated that they had restricted access to Mr. 19 Seeders, if access at all, and I don't doubt that there 20 is some truth in what is said with regard to that. 21 I don't know that anyone would be so secure in 22 meeting with the company's adversary; but I don't want 23 to get into that. 24 All I'm talking about is the fact that at this ( 25 point Mr. Seeders has not had the equivalent opportunity Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ~~
, Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
i 7626 I i 1 that Mr. Puckett had to review everything that's been j 2 said about his work or very much of what was said about 3 his work other than with regard to the audits that were l 4 performed at the time he was still in the position as 5 Calibration Inspector. 6 Now, Mr. Berry, did you have something to say with 7 regard to this? 1 8 MR. BERRY: Not much, Mr. Chairman. 9 I heartily endorse what the Chairman has indicated
. 10 before.
i 11 I would note that it appears that we won't complete l 12 Mr. Seeders examination today, and you might have over [} 13 the weekend -- he may have to reappear on Tuesday, and 14 maybe the Board's suggestion -- suggestion with respect 15 to Mr. Puckett may apply as well to Mr. Seeders over the 16 weekend. 17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I don't think over the ! 18 weekend, without any resources, Mr. Seeders is going to 4 19 do the job that Mr. Puckett was able to do or was . 4 1 20 afforded. j 21 I certainly would not have any objection to Mr. l 22 Seeders reviewing what he can, but I will say that l 1 23 whatever he does -- if that opportunity is given to him, . 24 I don't think it would be construed as opening up every () 25 other aspect that he wasn't examined with regard to in i gonntaa Renortina Service. Ltd.
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! Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
I 7627 l O 1 those reports. 2 So if there are items that anyone wants to show him 3 and which Mr. Seeders would like to comment on or would l 4 be able to rebut on Tuesday or the following days, fine, l 5 we'll hear that, but I don't expect he's going to be 6 able to do very much in this period of time. 7 All I was doing was trying to put the thing in 8 perspective right now as far as we can see it from here; 9 and I guess we shouldn't waste any more time on that. 10 Okay. Why don't we call Mr. Seeders back in, Mr. 11 Guild, and then continue. MR. GUILD: {) 12 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Chairman, may I proceed? Yes, please. 14 BY MR. GUILD: { 15 Q Mr. Seeders, let me show you a document that has been 16 received in evidence as a portion of Mr. Seltmann's i 17 testimony. It's Attachment 3 to his testimony. It's a 18 September 25, 1984, memorandum to Mr. DeWald,
Subject:
i 19 Tool Calibration Program. l 20 (Indicating . ) ! 21 Mr. Miller asked you about the document yesterday, 22 and I just can't recall whether he showed it to you or 23 not. 24 But do you recall ever having seen that document at I () 25 the time that you were employed at comstock as a QC Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 l _ - - . - . .
7628 O i 1 Inspector? 2 A No, sir. 3 Q All right. 4 I'll represent to you that, you know, there's 5 handwriting that appears on it and that's mine. That's 6 not the original. 7 A Okay. 8 Q The document, in its original form, the record reflects, 9 was prepared by Mr. Seltmann for submission to Mr. 10 DeWald,'and it, in substantial part, forms the basis for 11 Mr. DeWald's letter, the -- do you recall Mr. Miller 12 showing you the letter that Mr. DeWald prepared -- []} l 13 MR. MILLER: It's 94. j 14 MR. GUILD: Thank you. 15 BY MR. GUILD: 16 Q -- Applicant's Exhibit 94, the letter that was never l 17 issued, the one that says " void" on it, your termination I
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18 letter? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q As I remember, you said that Mr. DeWald -- did Mr. j 21 Dewald show you this letter at the time that he said he 22 was going to transfer you? 23 A No, sir. 24 Q Okay. ( 25 You don't recall ever having seen this before? Sonntag Reoorting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7629 O 1 A I don't recall it, no, sir. 2 Q All right. 3 I'll represent to you that -- that, in large part, l 4 Mr. DeWald's letter -- well, it starts out -- it says, 5 " Reference, R. Seltmann letter, 9/25/84," and it goes 6 on -- in substantial part quotes Mr. Seltmann's memo. 7 All right. And it is asserted by Mr. DeWald in 8 that document, his 9/27/84 letter that was voided, as 9 being the basis for his action and decision to terminate 10 you. j 11 I want to ask you about some of the substance of 12 what's conta'ined, then, in Mr. Seltmann's September 25, {]) , 13 1984, memorandum. 14 Mr. Seltmann relates there that there was a 15 Commonwealth Edison General Office Audit conducted at
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l 16 Comstock during the period September 10 through 17 September 14, 1984, involving apparently a gentleman 18 named Mr. D. Felz, F-E-L-Z. 19 Now, do you recall Mr. Felz conducting such an 20 audit? 21 A I don't recall ever meeting the gr:ntleman. 22 Q All right. 23 Do you recall a gentleman named J. Basaytis -- 24 A No, sir. ( 25 Q -- B-A-S-A-Y-T-I-S? Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. I Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7630 0 1 A No, sir. 2 Q Maybe a lady, for that matter. 3 The name doesn't ring a bell? 4 A The name is not familiar at all. 5 Q All right. 6 Mr. Seltmann recounts, at Page 2 of this memo, as 7 follows: 8 That Felz did a survey of calibration records as 9 part of this audit, and, quote, " In this survey of our j 10 calibration records, Mr. Felz stated that out of his 11 sample taken, a 40 percent rejection rate was identified (} 12 in violation of Paragraph 3.3.7 and 71 of the calibration procedure." 13 i 14 All right. It goes on to state that 40 percent 15 finding was based on 5 items that I discovered in his
- 16 survey, and it goes on to state that -- what those 5 17 items were.
18 Do you recall someone, during that period of timer 19 bringing it to your attention, the identified -- i 20 identified deficiencies, the failure to issue Inspection 21 Correction Reports with regard to torque wrenches that 22 were out of calibration? 23 A Not at that time. . 24 Q At a later time or earlier? () 25 A I -- I can't remember. i sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. _ Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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7631 l () j i ! l Q Do you recall -- do you recall someone stating to you ) 1 2 that they made a finding that there was a 40 percent ; 3 discrepancy rate in the failure to issue ICR's for the , 4 torque wrenches that were reviewed during an audit? 5 MR. MILLER: I'm going to object to the form 6 of the question. 7 The word " finding" I think mischaracterizes --
! 8 MR. GUILD: Indeed it was not a finding. It 9 was never part of an audit report; but it was an I
- 10 observation or a finding in a non-technical sense of the 4
11 word. 12 BY MR. GUILD: (]} 13 Q Did such an observation or a finding in that sense ever 14 get brought to your attention? 15 A I can't -- I can't recall when I -- I think Mr. DeWald i 16 mentioned it to me the day that he told me he had to 17 fire me. 18 (Indicating . ) 19 0 Okay. 20 That there had been a 40 percent '.3 ject rate? 21 A Yes, sir. , 22 Q All right. 1 23 Did he discuss with you what the substance was of 24 the adverse findings -- what was the 40 percent, in ( 25 other words -- Dewald? 1 I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. , l Geneva, Illinois 60134 ' (312) 232-0262
l 1
' 7632 O
1 1 A No, sir. He just said that there was -- there was a 40 2 percent deficiency. i 3 Q All right, sir. 4 Do you recall at any time, sir, where you 5 identified deficient calibration of torque wrenches but 6 did not issue ICR's for some reason? ! 7 A In a -- in an attempt to -- to do a better job, I took 8 it on myself to send torque wrenches to Phillips 9 Getschow to ce double checked on their digital torque t 10 analyzer. 11 We were finding a problem -- when the torque wrenches were found oue of ca11eration, they were sent O 12 13 to a place in West Virginia to be repaired and l 14 recalibrated. 15 That company was supposed to send those wrenches 16 back to us with certification papers that they had been ; 17 repaired and certified. 18 We found out that -- well, not we. I found out 19 that a great number of these wrenches were coming back 20 not repaired and not in certification, not in tolerance. 21 Therefore, I was sending the -- the returned 22 wrenches to Phillips Getschow to double check them and 23 make sure that they were okay to send out to the field. l 24 Q Let me stop you there. O 25 Now, you sent a -- found a wrench initially out of l sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ' Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 1 i
7633 O 1 calibration; correct? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 0 And by doing your own calibration check? 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q All right. i 6 Did you issue an ICR at that point? 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q All right. 9 Then you sent the wrench to this vendor in West ' Virginia for recalibration -- for repair and 10 11 recalibration? 12 A I automatically put a hold tag on the wrench, the wrench {} 13 was sent to our warehouse to be shipped out for repair 14 and recalibration. I 15 Q Okay. ! 16 To this company in West Virginia? l 17 A Yes, sir. 18 Q And what company was that, if you know? l 19 A I can't recall the name of the company. i l 20 Q were they a manufacturer of torque wrenches? 21 A They were a maintenance and repair facility. ! 22 I can't remember the name of it. l 23 Q They then were supposed to repair and recalibrate the 24 torque wrench and issue a certificate to the effect that () 25 it was repaired and recalibrated and return that wrench l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ' 1 Geneva, Illinois 60134 I (312) 232-0262
7634 O
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1 to Comstock; right? 2 A Yes, sir, yes, sir.
, 3 Q And you got it back with such a certificate?
t 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q But you were finding, on return, that those torque 6 wrenches, although certified to be repaired and 7 rechlibrated, were still out of calibration? 8 A Yes, sir. 9 Q All right. 10 What kind of state were you finding them in? 11 A Some of them were -- were returned in such bad condition i (} 12 that we don't think they even touched them. We think 13 they wrote up a certification paper and shipped them 14 back to us the way we sent them. 15 0 All right. 16 And you determined -- did you determine this 17 because you recalibrated -- you rechecked them yourself 18 when they came back? 19 A Yes, sir. 20 Q I gather, then, from your testimony you, as a matter of 21 course, would send them over to Phillips Getschow to use I i 22 their machine to test them? l 23 A Yes, sir. In an attempt to keep uncalibrated tools out 24 of the field, I wanted to double check and make sure Cn 25 they were okay to put in the field. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
7635 O 1 Q Okay. 2 And what kind of equipment did Phillips Getschow 3 have to do this? 4 A They had a $15,000 digital readout torque analyzer. 5 Q Okay. 6 And you were aware of that having previously worked 7 for Phillips Getschow? 8 A Yes, sir. 9 Q And you used to take them over to them, as a favor, and 10 use their machine to check your tools? 11 A Yes, sir, yes, sir. 12 Q Was sending them to Phillips Getschow for this purpose (]) j 13 required by your calibration procedure? I 14 A No, sir. 15 Q But, nonetheless, you took them over there and checked ) 16 them, and at times you found they were still out of 17 calibration? 18 A Yes, sir. 19 Q Now, I gather this tool had not been back to the field 20 since you first found it out of calibration and issued 21 the ICR -- 22 A That is correct. 23 J Let me finish my question. 24 A I'm sorry, I'm sorry. 25 Q Tool out of calibration, issued an ICR, never back to Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ~ Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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7636 )
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C) 1 the field before it came back and you found it again 2 still out of calibration? 3 A Yes, sir. 4 Q All right. 5 Did you issue an ICR the second time? 6 A No. 7 Q Why not? 8 A It wasn't required. 9 Q All right. 10 It wasn't required to check it a second time at all 11 anyway, was it? 12 A No, sir. (~} 13 Q But there would be a second certificate or a paper 14 from -- from Phillips Getschow showing that it was out 15 of calibration, showing the results of the recheck? 16 A Yes, sir. 17 Q All right. 18 And that would be a paper that you put in the tool 19 file, wouldn't you? i 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q So that someone coming back afterwards would see that 22 you found it out of calibration the first time, you 23 issued an ICR and you sent it off to West Virginia? 24 A Yes, sir. 25 Q They would find that it was out of calibration the 1 I Sonntaa ReDortina Service, Ltd. g Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
l l 7637
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() 1 second time per the Phillips Getschow calibration check ) l I
- 2 sheet?
3 A Yes, sir.
- 4 Q But there was no second ICR?
5 A Correct. 6 Q And there was no second ICR, as you just testified, 7 because the first ICR was still open and the tool had 8 never been sent to the field? 9 A Correct. 10 Q Okay. 11 Now, did you explain that circumstance to -- to 12 anybody or were you the only person that knew about l []} l 13 this? 14 A I was never given the chance to. l 15 Q Is it your belief that a number of instances where there I 16 were identified, from the document review alone,
- 17 out-of-calibration conditions for torque wrenches --
i 18 that the circumstances you just explained might explain 19 those failures to issue the second ICR?
- 20 A Yes, sir, I'm sure that's the case.
i 21 Q Have you had a chance to go back out and look at the 22 records to confirm that? 23 A No, nir. 24 Q I take it Mr. DeWald didn't give you an opportunity, () 25 when he brought it in and told you either take the i Sonntag Reporting Farvice, Ltd. ~ Geneva, Illincis 60134 (312) 232-0262
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)
1 transfer or get fired, to go out and look at the i 2 documents to identify what the real cause was for these 3 apparent failures to issue ICR's? 4 A I attempted to explain -- I believe I testified to Mr. 5 Miller that when Mr. DeWald called me in the office, he 6 told me to either be fired or take a transfer. He said 7 there had been a 40 percent deficiency found. 8 I tried to explain -- I -- I begged him to give me 9 a chance to explain the -- the deficiency. 10' I explained to him at that time that that could be 11 the condition. That's when he summoned Mr. Seltmann. 12 I explained the condition to Mr. DeWald and Mr. () 13 Seltmann again, and they said it didn't matter. My only 14 recourse was to be fired or take a transfer. 15 0 All right, sir. 16 A I asked both the gentlemen to let me think about it over 17 the weekend. They said, "There's nothing to think 18 about. You are either fired immediately or you take the 19 transfer." 20 Q All right, sir. 21 What was Mr. Seltmann's role in that meeting? 22 Did you ask for him to be present? i 23 A No, sir. 24 Q Did you ask for anybody else to be present? ( 25 A No, sir. sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. _ Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7639 O 1 Q And Mr. DeWald brought Mr. Seltmann in? 2 A After I -- I tried to explain the situation, he was 3 shocked. He immediately tried to call in Mr. -- you 4 know, he called in Mr. Seltmann. 5 I explained to Mr. Seltmann that that conditior. 6 could exist. They said it didn't matter.
; 7 Q And this was on -- was this the 27th of September, 1984?
8 A The -- the Friday -- the Friday that I was transferred. 9 (Indicating.) ] i 10 Q All right. 11 And you started the following Monday, the 1st of 12 October? [} 13 A Yes, sir, yes, sir. 14 Q If Mr. Seltmann, indeed, authored the memo I just showed 15 you on the 25th, two days before that meeting, seltmann 16 still didn't show you the memo when you said that you 17 had an explanation for these problems? 18 A That is correct, that is correct. l 19 Q All right. 20 Let's talk about some -- the events prior to that l 1 21 date, the day that you were terminated -- or the day ' l l l , 22 that you were transferred, shall I say. i Mr. Miller asked you about -- I'm sorry. ^ 23 Le t -- i 24 let me change course again. , () 25 Aside from the -- the torque wrench, an ICR 1 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ~~ Geneva, Illinois 60134 j (312) 232-0262 L __ _ _ . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
l l 7640 O 1 question that you just addressed, there's been previous 2 testimony by Mr. Snyder that in the course of performing 3 his review, he identified the absence of calibration 4 records for two kinds of tools that were within the 5 calibration program, and those were tools called -- 6 referred to as crimpers and strippers. 7 A Yes, sir. 8 Q And now there's been testimony about what a crimper and 9 what a stripper is. 10 Those were, indeed, tools that were within your i 11 calibration program, weren't they? 12 A Yes, sir. {} 13 Q And did you calibrate those tools? 14 A Yes, sir. 15 Q There was testimony that over a two year period of time, 16 there weren't documents reflecting the calibration of 17 crimpers and strippers. 18 Was there such a period of time when you didn't 19 calibrate crimpers and strippers? 20 A Not while I was Calibration Inspector. 21 Q Okay. 22 Now, was there a specific calibration inspection 23 form, like a Form 23 or 23A, uniquely designed for 24 crimpers and strippers? ( 25 A No, sir. sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd. , i Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262 1 - _.. - - .-
7641 O 1 Q In fact, 23 and 23A have a series of places for entries 2 where there are, for like a torque wrench, like a unique 3 torque reading; isn't that correct? l 4 A Yes, sir. 5 Q Now, you don't measure a crimper or a stripper by a 6 variable value, do you -- 7 A That is correct. 8 Q -- like a torque measure? 9 A When we calibrate the crimpers and strippers with the 4 10- pin gauge set, it is a go-no go situation. 11 You have a go pin and no go pin. The go pin,should The {) 12 13 go through the diameter of the crimper or stripper. no go pin should not go through that diameter. 14 If it goes through, the opening is too large, which i 1 15 would make the tool out of calibration. 16 (Indicating.) 17 Q All right. 18 A crimper, I take it -- a stripper, I take it, is a 19 plier-like device that's a fairly inexpensive tool; is 20 that true? ! 21 A Yes, sir. 22 Q And there are a lot of them -- l 23 A Yes, sir. 24 0 -- because they are inexpensive? , i () 25 They are used commonly in doing termination work, l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
I 7642 () . 1 aren't they? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q so each craftsman or -- or crew of craftsmen could have 4 more -- one or more crimpers -- 5 A Yes, sir, that is correct. 6 0 -- doing their work? , 7 I've got one in my tool box, and, you know, they 8 are not very expensive. 9 It costs a couple dollars for a crimper? 10 A Yes, sir.
]
11 They are definitely not a precisien tool.
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12 Q A crimper I am not familiar with particularly, but is it (]) 13 a precision tool? 14 A All right. 15 0 Is it a -- commonly is it an inexpensive tool as well? 16 A Yes, sir. 17 Q All right. 18 And it crimps lugs on terminated cables and wires; 19 right? 20 A Yes, sir. 21 Q You had a lot of those as well? 22 A Yes, sir. 23 Q Now, if there wasn't a unique form for recording the 24 calibration of crimpers and strippers -- since there j
-25 wasn't, did you use the Form 23 or the Form 23A that had i
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ' Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 l
7643 4 O
- 1 all these boxes for the variable calibration readings on 2 them?
3 A No, sir. It wasn't needed. t 4 Q And why wasn't it needed? 5 A Since the terminations were inspected out in the field, 6 usually the safety-related terminations in process, 7 those two items were never really considered needing 8 any -- any forms for them. .,, 9 It was a standard practice just to enter on the 10 Form 77 that the tool was in calibration or out of 11 calibration, because it was just a no -- a go-no go 12 situation. There was nothing to record. i (} 13 Q All right. 14 And whatever there was to record, which was whether l . 15 it was go or no go, you recorded on the Form 777 i 16 A Yes, sir. ! 17 Q And that's'the card. 18 And there's a unique card for each tool; right? i 19 A For each tool, yes, sir. 20 0 There are line entries on the card, and you would 21 record, on the date when calibration was due, whether it 22 was in or out of calibration; right? 23 A Yes, sir. 24 Q And did you do that -- 25 A Yes, sir. Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
1 7644 ( ; i 1 0 -- for crimpers and strippers? 2 A Yes, sir. 3 Q Now, further, it seems to me, isn't it true that -- that 4 when a craftsman in the field takes a stripper, a wire 5 stripper -- I'm entering some folk engineering here, so 6 please don't take this as gospel -- you take a stripper, 7 it is set -- or has a certain hole in it, you put it on 8 the wire for the proper -- you put the proper -- the 9 wire in the proper diameter hole -- is there more than 10 one hole in a stripper? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 0 okay. []} 13 And you -- if you want to strip a half-inch of P 14 wire, you put it a half-inch from the end and you clamp 15 down and it cuts the insulation and you pull and the 16 insulation come off the end of the wire? 17 A Correct. 18 Q Okay. 19 I have this happen all the time, because I'have one 20 of these uncalibrated strippers in my toolbox, and if I 21 don't set it right, and I set the hole too big, it 22 doesn't take off any insulation or it takes off too much 23 insulation. 24 A That's correct. ( 25 Q And some plastic is left on the end of the wire? Ronntag Reporting Service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 ;
7645 O 1 A Correct. 2 0 It's perfectly apparent to me I didn't calibrate it 3 right. 4 A That is correct. 5 Q And if I set it too small, I either cut the whole wire 6 off or I take a big chunk out of it and a bunch of the 7 little braids or -- or filaments of the copper wire, 8 let's say, drop -- drop off on the floor and now I've 9 got to do it over again. i 10 A Oftentimes the craftsmen would bring the tools back into 11 the crib way before the -- the calibration due date to 12 have them reset because they were so easy to go out of []} 13 calibration. 14 0 Okay. 15 HoV do you set these things? 16 A There is -- there is an adjustment screw on them to set i 17 them to make sure that the holes are lined up and the -- l 18 the tool is -- is properly lined up. 19 Q And does that adjustment screw -- again, a little folk 20 engineering. 21 Does that adjustment screw determine how closely 22 you can squeeze the handles together, thereby set the 23 diameter of the hole on the stripper end? 24 A No. If -- if you have the -- if you have the -- the (} 25 holes lined up correctly, the diameter should -- should Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. - Geneva, Illinois 60134 i (312) 232-0262
7646 , l 1 () 1 remain the same. 2 0 I see. 3 A little -- a little more sophisticated tool than ; 4 mine. All right. 5 Well, in any event, is it your opinion, from what 6 you have been informed in your training and experience, 7 that an out-of-calibration condition of a -- of a 8 stripper is readily apparent to the craftsmen in the 9 field? 10 A Yes, sir. 11 Q All right. 12 A That's why -- that's why the terminations were inspected [} 13 out in the field, also. It was kind of a double check. 14 Q Okay. 15 And for a crimper, I take it it's -- if the crimper i i 16 is out of calibration because the -- the -- the crimping l 17 surface is too big, the lug cimply falls off the end of 18 the wire or it's too loose? 19 A Correct. 20 Q Does somebody pull on the lugs at the end to see if they 21 are tightly affixed by the crimper? 22 A Correct, correct. 23 0 That's a check in the field? 24 A Correct.
} 25 Q So if the crimper is way out of calibration, it would 'be Sonntag Reporting Service. Ltd. _
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7647 r O 1 readily apparent, too, wouldn't it? I 1 2 A Yes, sir. ; 3 Q Did you ever have crimpers come back to you because the l 4 craft, without using a pin gauge, identified that 5 crimpers were out of calibration? 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q Even before their due date? S A Yes, sir. 9 Q So, in fact, you did calibrate the crimpers and 10 strippers? 11 A Yes, sir. 12 Q And I take it that since the procedure had no particular (]} 13 form for crimpers -- no unique form for crimpers and 14 strippers, you did as you thought was appropriate in 15 interpreting the procedure and used the Form 77 as the 16 quality document to record the calibration of the tools? , 17 A That's correct. 18 Q And did anybody, in your course of work, ever tell you 19 that that was an improper practice? 20 A No, sir. 21 Q All right, sir. 22 Now, I'm sorry. I started to get a little ahead of 23 myself. 24 Mr. Miller showed you a document that's been marked 25 as Applicant's Exhibit 87. It's this Jeff Dominique 1 ! Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
a 7648 J O 1 memo to Mr. DeWald critiquing a class of yours. 2 Do you remember the questioning about this class? i 3 A Yes, sir. - 4 Q I understood from your testimony that you never saw the i 5 memo until Mr. Miller showed it to you at your 6 deposition; is that right?
; 7 A That is correct.
i j 8 Q But Mr. Dominique was, indeed, at the class that seems 9 to be described or purports to be described in the memo? 10 A Yes, sir. j 11 Q All right. 1 Now, Mr. Dominique was the training coordinator, Q.12 ,
- 13 was he not?
j 14 A He was just hired as the new training coordinator, yes, 15 sir. l 16 Q And what was the purpose for his attendance at your 17 training class, if you know? 18 A He -- he was attending 'all the training classes to get l , 19 an idea of -- of how the training was -- was going, i 20 what -- what to look for, to get a basis for building l 21 his program for the company. j l 22 , Q Okay. i l 23 Do you know when Mr. Dominique came on? 24 A It was just before -- some time just before that class. 25 Q Okay. sonntaa Reoortina Service, Ltd. Geneva', Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 . _ _ _ _ _ __..._. _ _ _ _ . _ _ . . _ . _ _ . _ _ _ _____._.__._..._______,_J
d 7649 C)
- 1 Your class, according to the memo, was the 2nd of 2 August, 1984.
3 Just prior to that date, Mr. Dominique was hired in 4 this position? 5 A Yes, sir. 6 Q All right. 7 Now, did Mr. Dominique train you to be a trainer? 8 A No, sir. l
; 9 Q He didn't give you any classes, then, in how you should i ; 10 conduct your training class in calibrations?
i l 11 A That's correct. (),12 Q Who did train you to be a trainer? 13 A Nobody.
; 14 Q Had you conducted a training class before this one?
15 A No, sir. 16 Q So who told you how to do it, if anybody? i 17 A I believe Mr. DeWald asked me to draw up an outline and i 18 give the class. 4 19 Q Okay. I j 20 And you did that? I l 21 A Yes, sir. h 22 Q And you testified that you tried to make a boring i 23 subject a little lighter by having some humor in it? j 24 A I.-- I added in a little bit of humor, yes, sir. l v 25 0 Were you ever in the Army or the military -- i I
\
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. _ Geneva, Illinois 60134 i (312) 232-0262
7650 0 1 A Yes, sir. 2 0 -- Mr. Seeders? 3 Did you ever experience military training classes 4 where the captain, lieutenant, gets up and he tells a
> 5 joke before the class starts?
{ 6 A Yes, sir. 7 Q Okay. 8 Did you have that experience in mind when you l 9 decided to use that technique in your class? 10 A Something to that effect, yes, sir. 11 Q My experience was that it fell through a lot, too. i 12 But your intention was to try to make the class []} , 13 more -- not just fun, but to improve the quality of the 14 training by doing that? 15 A Uh-huh. 16 MR. MILLER: Your Honor, the leading nature 17 of these questions -- 18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, that's right. 19 You are leading, Mr. Guild. 20 MR. GUILD: I apologize. 21 BY MR. GUILD: 22 0 What was your intention, aside -- and what was your 23 intention when you did that, aside from adding a little 24 levity to the class? ; ( 25 A My intention was to make the students more relaxed; l Sonntac ReDortina Service, Ltd. . Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7651 i ()
; 1 therefore, actually learn more about the procedure 2 than -- normally, none of the Inspectors were trained in 3 giving formal training. The standard of the training i
j 4 classes was to read word for word the procedure to the 5 students. 6 I didn't feel that I -- I was benefitting the i 7 students by reading the procedure word for word, so I -- i
! 8 I -- I didn't give the class like everybody else did.
j 9 Q All right. l ] ] 10 How many people were in attendance in the class, if I 11 you recall? 12 A Approximately 6 or 7 -- maybe between 5 and 10. I can't [} j 13 remember. 14 Q Did these include Level II Inspectors who you at that 15 time were training in calibrations? 16 A Yes, sir. ]
- 17 Q Some of the people you have mentioned previously that
- 18 you were doing OJT with in calibrations?
i 19 A Yes, sir.
- 20 Q All right.
i 21 Did Mr. Dominique say anything to you after the 22 class was over? 23 A No, he did not. 24 0 ion didn't get the memo that Mr. Miller showed you; l !-O 1 25 righe2 i l i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
7652 1 A That is correct. 2 Q At any time did Mr. Dominique critique to you -- 3 critique the class that he observed -- 4 A No, sir. 5 0 -- aside from this piece of paper? 6 All right. Now, you wrote your letter on August l 7 the 17th, 1984. Your training class had taken place on l 8 August 2, 1984. Mr. Dominique's critique was written 9 the 21st of August, 1984. 10 When you were being given your written warning that 11 mentioned this training class, did -- did either Mr.
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12 DeWald or Mr. -- I'm sorry -- Mr. Seese or Mr. Saklak (]} 13 elaborate on the problems that they purported occurred 14 in this training class. 15 A No, sir. 16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Mr. Guild, if you are 17 going to switch to another topic, I think maybe we ought 18 to adjourn now. 19 MR. GUILD: Let's. 20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine. 21 We'll adjourn until 9:00 o' clock on Tuesday. j 22 (WHEREUPON, at the hour of 11:05 A. M., 23 the hearing of the above-entitled matter 24 was continued to the 15th day of July, ( 25 . 1986, at the hour of 9:00 o' clock A. M.) Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
i NO PAGE NUMBER CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER O This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of: NAME OF PROCEEDING: BRAIDWOOD STATION UNITS 1 62 COSD10NWEALT!! EDISON COMPANY (EVIDENTIARY llEARING) DOCKET NO.: 50-456/457-OL PLACE: JOLIET, ILLINOIS DATE: FRIDAY, JULY 11, 1986 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission. (sigt) (TYPEDh [ Gary L. Sonntag h Official Reporter Reporter's Affiliation i O) l l l l l I}}