ML20058H348
| ML20058H348 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Comanche Peak  |
| Issue date: | 07/30/1982 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8208030555 | |
| Download: ML20058H348 (223) | |
Text
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
,i t Ew l .
l NCC'.2AP. ?2GULATORY COMM~SS!CN 1
)
In de Ma m cf:
)
TEXAS UTILITIES GENERATING COMPANY, et al ) DOCKET NO. 50-445 Com:nanche Peak Steam Electric Station, ) 50-446 Units 1& 2 )
) DA"I: July 30, 1982 pAggg: 3342 thru 3563 gm. Porth Worth, Texas M!
.unam /- ammmo
.r. q 400 Virginia Ave., S.W. Was h p en, D. C. 20024
)
Telephene: (202) 554-2345
.w ,
,ah
0 3342 A 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 3
't I
4 In the Matter of: X X
e 5 TEXAS UTILITIES GENERATING X h COMPANY, et al. X
$ 6 X Docket Nos. 50-445 g (Comanche Peak Steam Electric X 50-446
& 7 Station, Units i and 2) X E
8 n 8 d Fourth Floor Meeting Room, c; 9 Metro Center Hotel,
$ 6th and Commerce Streets, g 10 Fort Worth, Texas.
E 11 Friday, S July 30, 1982.
j 12 5 The above-entitled matter came on for further mj y 13 hearing, pursuant to adjournment, at 8:30 a.m.
E 14 w
$ BEFORE:
2 15 w
- MARSHALL E. MILLER, Chairman j 16 Administrative Judge t Atomic Safety and Licensing Board I7 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission
- Washington, D. C. 20555 M 18 h DR. KENNETH A. McCOLLOM, Member g
I9 Administrative Judge Dean, Division of Engineering, Architecture 0
and Technology j Oklahoma State University l Stillwater, Oklahoma 74078 I
DR. RICHARD F. COLE, Member Administrative Judge 23
, i Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U. S. Nuclear Regulatory C6mmission l
i (s
s_) 24 Washington, D. C. 20555 1
25 ' i l 1 I
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
- -n ,e- - - - - - -/..-- - -% ,, . . , , . ,
1 3343 B 1 ' APPEARANCES:
2 On Behalf of the Applicants, Texas Utilities Generating Company, et al.:
3 NICHOLAS S. REYNOLDS, Attorney -
Os 4 -and-WILLIAM A. HORIN, Attorney e 5 Debevoise & Liberman-3 1200 Seventeenth Street, N.W.
$ 6 Washington, D. C. 20036 57 4
~
7
- On Behalf of the NRC Staff
g a e MARJORIE ROTHSCHILD, Attorney d 9 STUART TREVY, Attorney y GEARY MIZUNO, Attorney g 10 Office of the Executive Legal Director
$ U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission j 11 Washington, D. C. 20555 "s
j 12 y On Behalf of Intervenor, Citizens Association V 5 13 for Sound Energy:
m m
g 14 JUANITA ELLIS, President x CASE 15 j
{* 1426 South Polk Street Dallas, Texas 75224 y
16 l d BARBARA BOLTZ I7 2012 South Polk Street h
= Dallas, Texas 75224 Si 18 h KATHY WELCH I9 1601 Dorchester, No. 107 h
l Plano, Texas 75075 21 Q 22 23 24 O)
'u 25f i
i l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3344 1
1 CO N T E N T S
(~ BOARD 2 WITNESSES DIRECT CROSS REDIRECT RECROSS EXAM.
3 CHARLES ALSIE ATCHISON '
(Resumed)
J 4 By Mr. Reynolds 3349 o 5 By Ms. Rothschild 3388 h By Ms. Ellis 3413
- 3 6 By Mr. Reynolds 3436 g By Judge Miller 3441 6 7 By Judge Cole 3457 g By Judge McCollom 3460
! 8 d
d 9 CORDELLA MARIE HAMILTON
$ ROBERT L. HAMILTON g 10 (A Panel)
$ 11 By Ms. Ellis 3471
& By Mr. Reynolds 3489 g 12 By Ms. Rothschild 3517 y By Ms. Ellis 3519 Jg 13 By Judge Cole 3520 By Judge McCollom 3521 l 14 By Ms. Ro ths child 3524 I $ By Judge McCollom 3524 i 2 15
, 5 g 16 _ _ _
us i
d 17 5
$ 18 E
E 19 R ~
l 20 21 l
lO 22 23 )
- p. 24 a
l 25 ,
i
- ; ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
. 3345 1 EXHIBITS 2 NUMBER: FOR IDENTIFICATION IN EVIDENCE 3 CASE's:
g)
U 4 No. 662 3383 3383 s 5 No. 665A through 665D 3419 3468 0
3 6 No. 663
, 3429 3468 R
$ 7 No. 664 3431 3433 3
[ 8 No. 650, 650A through 650X,
- d and 656 --
3468
! d 9
$ No. 652 3471 3528 10 h No. 653 3482 3528
= No. 653A through 653F 3488 3528 11
^4 I2 N Applicants':
=
035 -
13 Nos. 132 through 137 --
3384
=
h No. 138 3499 3529
=
9 15 E No. 139 3501 3529
=
~
No. 140 3515 3529 d
17
=
5 18 Board's:
=
{ j9 Nos. 5A and 5B 3385 3385 A
20 Staff's:
21 No. 200 3403 --
l 22 23 24 '
(])
25 I
- ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
334G 1-1 ) P R O C E E D I N G S 2 8:00 a.m.
3 JUDGE MILLER: Are we ready to resume?
O -4 MR. REYNOLDS: Yes, sir.
e 5 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Mr. Chairman, are we on the M
9
@ 6 record?
R 8 7 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
s j 8 MS. ROTHSCHILD: I would just like to note for d
d 9 the record that I have been joined at counsel table by h 10 Mr. Stuart Trevy, Assistant Chief Hearing Counsel, Office 3
h 11 of the Executive Legal Director, Washington, D. C. 20555.
3 12 Mr. Trevy has previously filed a notice of l
g 13 appearance in this proceeding.
=
m
$ 14 JUDGE MILLER: Yes, he has.
g 15 THE RF PO RTE R: May I have the spelling of his
=
y 16 name, Ms. Rothschild?
W 17 MS. ROTHSCHILD: His first name is Stuart,
=
5 18 S-t-u-a-r-t. The last name is Trevy, T-r-e-v-y.
P 19 JUDGE MILLER: You may proceed, Mr. Reynolds.
g n
20 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman?
2I JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
22 MS. ELLIS: There is a matter that I think 23 ;
needs some attention this morning.
()
24 I would like to inquire first, before I get 25 into this, did the Chairman issue a subpoena for Chuck ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
=
i 3347 i
1-2 1 Atchison other than the one that we were given for Charles
() 2 Atchison?
1 3 JUDGE MILLER: Not that I'm aware of. We only 1 4 issue subpoena upon request and some showing of good o 5 cause, and as I recall, you had requested the issuance E
e
- @ 6, and I signed it, I think Monday, wasn't it?
R 1
$ 7 MS. ELLIS: Yes, I believe it was and --
N j 8 JUDGE MILLER: Why; what's the problem?
d
- 9 MS. ELLIS
- Well, I have here the original, z
o y 10 which we were about to give back to the reporter this E
j 11 morn.ng, and it shows on the back that it was delivered i
a N I2 at Fort Worth, Texas. We had it delivered at DFW Airport
()g _
b 13 after we talked to Mr. Atchison, he agreed to appear m
5 I4 voluntarily. He flew here from Louisiana, and since we had E
15
{m the subpoena we felt we should go ahead and serve it, and j 16 we served it to him at the airport.
w h I7 l JUDGE MILLER: All right. No problem.
= '
IO 3 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Atchison had a call this P
19 g morning from his employer, and -- well, perhaps it would n
20 be better for him to explain it to you.
I Well, we don't want to take a JUDGE MILLER:
} 22 lot of time on collateral matters. Does it have something i
23 ' to do with the testimony here?
l
() 24 j MS. ELLIS: It has something to do with these j entire proceedings. Apparently --
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3348 :
,1-3 1 JUDGE MILLER: Make a representation as to the O 2 nature of it so we can determine whether --
3 MS. ELLIS: All right. Apparently, from what 4 Mr. Atchison said, he received a call from his employer e 5 this morning, in Louisiana, who stated that a -- was it b
@ 6 the Sheriff's Department?
R S 7 MR. ATCHISON: The Highway Patrol.
E j 8 MS. ELLIS: --
the Highway Patrol Department d
d 9l of Louisiana appeared at the jobsite yesterday, purportedly 7:
c g 10 with a subpoena to appear in these proceedings, and they G
j 11 went all over the jobsite yesterday and apparently the B
p 12 higher management of the utility company for which rn
(-) = 13 Mr. Atchison is working now is very upset now and l 14 apparently his job is in jeopardy.
15 We're very concerned about this.
i y 16 JUDGE MILLER: Well, I don't see what that has A
d 17 to do with the Board or the hearing.
IO MS. ELLIS: Well, sir, if you're the only one P
19 who can issue a subpoena, how could there possibly have g
n
, 20 been a subpoena issues for him there?
2I JUDGE MILLER: Well, I don't know. I'm sure 22 not to vouch for all documents. I'm up to my ears with 23 authenticating all the documents and everything else, and
() 24 I'm not going to be responsible for anything except the 25 ye , esex, mere eme es,, 1 ,1ynes, ,,,,,,1 cegies, ese ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3343 1-4 i original to be returned, a copy of service. We know
() 2 absolutely nothing about it.
3 MS. ELLIS: All right. That was the main O 4 thing I wanted to be sure of. Thank you.
e 5 JUDGE MILLER: You may proceed.
i h
$ 6 Whereupon, R '
S 7 CHARLES ALSIE ATCHISON, 2
M j 8 having been previously duly sworn, resumed the stand and d
i d 9 testified further as follows:
a i
. 0 l G 10 CROSS-EXAMINATION (contined) s
{
's 11 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
j 12 G Good morning, Mr. Atchison.
( g 13 Mr. A t chis o n , we're going to hand you a copy
=
l$ 14 of NCR No. M-82-00296, which is Applicant's Exhibit 122-D,
! 15 and a copy of that same NCR, Revision 1, which is y 16 Applicant's Exhibit 122-E, and ask you if you are familiar A
6 17 with the contents of those documents?
{ 18 JUDGE MILLER: Ms. Ellis, let the record show, E
g I9 I have now made inquiry, I signed three copies of the n
20 subpoena for Mr. Atchison. The Board kept one for its 2I files. We still have it. The other two you just handed up, 22 the original and one, so that accounts for all three copies 23 ' signed by myself as Chairman.
(w/ 24 l
MS. ELLIS: That was what I thought.
25 ,,,
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3350 1-5 j BY MR. REYNOLDS:
A V G Mr. Atchison, are you familiar with those 2
3 documents?
O 4 A Yes, I am.
e 5 G Who made the decision to write those NCR's?
3 N
o 6 A The original decision, after I had done some R
8 7 preliminary marking on it, my immediate supervisor, Randy A
j 8 Smith instituted this and said go ahead and write an NCR d
d 9 on it.
i C
b 10 G So you did not make that decision?
E 5 11 A I noted the defects, because the problem had p 12 occurred before on vendor supplied items that were being E
([) y 13 looked at. I showed him the defects. He considered it to
= i
$ 14 be a nonconforming condition and advised me to go ahead 2 15 and apply hold tags and initiate an NCR on it.
5 g 16 G To your knowledge, was Mr. Brandt involved in A
g l'7 the decision to write those NCR's?
5 5 18 A At that time, once the NCR was drafted --
P h I9 JUDGE MILLER: Well, was he involved?
5 20 THE WITNESS: At a later date, yes, he was.
2I JUDGE MILLER: But not at that time?
22 THE WITNESS: No, sir.
23 ; BY MR. REYNOLDS:
() 24 G Well, was he involved in the decision to issue 25 the NCR?
I
. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
_ _ - . . = _ - _ . =. _- _ _ ___ . --- -- _-
3351 1-6 j A Yes, he was.
2 G Was it his decision to issue the NCR?
3 A At a later date, yes, it was.
4 G I don't understand the "later date" part.
e 5 W uld you explain that, please?
b 6 A Yes. I initially marked the obvious defects; 7 this is the undercut, the lack of penetration, lack of 8 fusion, that was obvious even through the paint.
O d 9 I had my supervisor, Randy Smith, come and
-i h 10 look at them and he said it is definitely a nonconforming 6
g 11 condition, to go ahead and write -- initiate the NCR.
k d 12 About two days had expired, Mr. Brandt and z
13 Mr. Foote and several other people had observed these
{ 14 during that time. Mr. Foote came in approximately at 2 15 7:00 o' clock one morning and initiated (sic.) that 5
y 16 Mr. Brandt wanted the NCR to be issued.
?A j 17 0 I see. So the NCR was not issued until 18 Mr. Brandt instructed that it be issued?
- g. 19 - A. That's correct. It was written up in draf t M
20 form to go to my supervisor. I had applied hold tags and 21 obtained the NCR and --
22 G So then Mr. Brandt made the decision to issue 23 l the NCR?
i f
(,)-
1 24 A. Yes, several days after the start.
25 G Several days after the matter arose?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
7 3352 k
l-7 i A - Yes. -
3 . ,,
2- G' Sir, on%your supplementary testimony, Page 1, [
3 at thebbtomof the page you state that Jerry Walker n
v 4
made the statement that he would never sign his name tosit s
n e 5 to close out<the audit deficiency. - i
- g s ) '
- e. m
$ 6 Why did Mr. Walker say that'? ' * ~~
g ,, 8 T3 7 A. From the information he relatdd to.me personal 19 s
[ 8 in conversation in the hall he ' did not feel it was \some-d s
c[ 9 tning he would like to apply hic n a m e .'t'o . '
z '
h 10 G Didn't he say that he would not close it out 3
)is 11 because he was-not the lead auditor on the matter?
j 12 A. No, he did not express those terms.
, x O .=h 13 G T o y d i'. ?
= , w.
h 14 A. \NS,9 sir. '
i 5 '
{e 15 g Sir, let me invite your_attadtion back to g' 16 Applicant {s Exhibits 133 add'134. These are, respectively, rA 6
a 17 your application to TtfGCO for empbyment,~'and the request x
$ 18 for verification of education from Tarrant County Junior p 8 .
s 19 College, and perhaps we shoul? ';se the subsequ3nt exhibit.
M ~.. \ ,
20 for that, the one that's .,iE :d , ,and that woui.d be A 2I Applicant's Exhibit 137. .,
22 i Do you have those documents, sir?
s 23 : A. Somewhere, if you will' gihe me a moment.
O 24
.G 1 'r1eese. '.
25 MR. REYNOLDS: During thi.hpause, Mr. Chairman,
+ e x .
j ALDERSON REPORTINC/ COMPANY, INC.
3353
-s
'l-8 1 a point of clarification for my benifit. The Board had O 2 instructed that --
3 JUDGE MIL LE R: That's withdrawn. I meant to 13
~# 4 tell you, in view of the state of the record now it will e 5 be unnecessary.
A e.'
@ 6 MR. REYNOLDS: We are talking about the R
$ 7 authenticity of the documents?
A J j 8 JUDGE MILLER: We are, and the so-called d
d 9 authentic altered documents.
i o
@ 10 MR. REYNOLDS: And the Brown & Root document 3
) $~
11 and the TUGCO document?
N I2 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. That's correct;.the whole
(1 5
\s' y 13 series.
m l$ 14 MR. REYNOLDS: Thank you.
15
{x nY MR. REYNOLDS:
g 16 G Have you found those documents, sir?
m I7 A No, sir. Do you have an extra copy of those?
h
=
{ 18 G Yes. We'll try to find some for you.
P g I9 n
We have the verification of education for you, L 20 Mr. Atchison. Do you have a copy of your application with
' 2I the resume?
22 A. Okay.
23 ;
G Sir, on the verification of education, will
() 24 you rend the comments and exceptions at the bottom of that 25 !
!- sheet, pl e. as e ?
p ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3354 1
1-9 i A Are you referring to this one?
2 O Yes, sir.
3 A Yes. The above information, with noted O 4 exceptions below, is verified by our records. Comments e 5 and exceptions, dated attended, 8-70 to 12-71, no degree U
$ 6 attained.
R
$ 7 G Now, sir, does that confirm or conflict with A
l 8 the information above the black line with regard to dates d
6 9 attended?
i 3
g 10 A I had specified I attended September '68 3
lW 11 through 1971.
j 12 Q. And I believe you testified yesterday that b
g 13 you stated September 1968 because you took three hours ,
x j
l$ 14 each semester, is that correct?
15
{x A Yes. This was the fall semester I took --
j 16 ob tained three hours .
A l
17 G In September of '68?
hm
{ 18 A Yes, sir.
P 19 Did you attend in the spring of '68 -- of
, g G t n 20 '69, rather?
2I A I don't recall at this time. I think I
's,) 22 carried three to six hours. I'm not positive.
23 And then, sir, did you attend in the fall of
! O S
,/ 24 69?
25 g 7,m not positive about that. There was a ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3355 1-10 1 period in there that I did not because of a shift change
( 2 where I was employed at that time.
3 G I see. And then did you attend in the spring rm U 4 of '70?
e 5 A I believe I attended full time at that time.
E 4
j 6 4 Would that be consistent with the dates at the R
8 7 bottom of this page?
M j 8 A Yes, it would.
d d 9 G Isn't that 8-70, August or July '70?
i c
g 10 A August of '70?
E_
$ 11 G Yes, sir. I'm speaking of the spring semester a
12 of 1970, that is the semester starting in January or f
O! g
=
13 February. Do you understand my question?
m
$ 14 A That does go back to where I attended in the je 15 spring of '70?
j 16 Yes.
G A
d 17 A Which would be January or February?
- 1 18
{
G That's correct.
19 A I'm not positive.
g n
20 g If you had attended in the spring of '70, would 2I it have been full time or part time?
22 A Probably part time. I was full time employed 23 : and also working a part-time job at that time.
I rm (m) G Would you have taken three hours or six hours?
25 i A Probably six.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3356 1-11 j G Six hours.
2 A Three to six, I'm not positive.
3 G And then you started full time in August of O
(J 4 1970?
e 5 A I believe that's correct.
E N
8 6 G And you matriculated through what date of 1971?
e R
g 7 A 12-71, approximately. I think the actual B
8 n 8 semester was over in the middle of December.
d d 9 G So that is three semesters, is that correct, i
c
$ 10 three full semesters?
g 11 A I believe that's correct.
B j 12 G How many hours did you. take each semester?
g 13 A At one point'I think I.was carrying 20
=
l$ 14 semester hours at one point, and 12 to 14 the others.
2 15 0 12 and 14 the others?
g 16 A I believe that's correct. I'm not positive.
A d 17 G Approximately?
$ 18 A Approximately.
A
{M 19 G Given that information, sir, do you continue 20 to maintain that you have acquired 123 semester hours of 21 education at that school?
22 A No, I do not. That's approximately 27 -- 23 to l 23 ; 27 accredited hours, I believe.
rm
(_) 24 I'm sorry. You lost me.
G 25 A Approximately 23 to 27 accredited hours, with ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. l 1
3357 1-12 1 a grade point average of 2.7.
O 2 G Sir, you're saying that 123 hours0.00142 days <br />0.0342 hours <br />2.03373e-4 weeks <br />4.68015e-5 months <br /> is not 3 correct, but that 27 hours3.125e-4 days <br />0.0075 hours <br />4.464286e-5 weeks <br />1.02735e-5 months <br /> is correct?
4 A That's correct.
e 5 G Why did you state here that you had acquired b
@ 6 123 hours0.00142 days <br />0.0342 hours <br />2.03373e-4 weeks <br />4.68015e-5 months <br />?
R
$ 7 A Well, this was approximately hours, I guess, s
j 8 that did not have any access to records since the d
d 9 deposition hearing. I placed a call to the administrative z,
O y 10 office of Tarrant County Junior College and I believe they Z-II h show that they have 27 accredited hours, 2.7 average, 3
p 12 grade average.
OB5 13 G I see. Mr. Atchison, who prepared your
=
$ I4 supplementary testimony?
15
$ A CASE.
x Ib km G You didn't prepare it?
I7 A I was the one that implemented it.
l h x
They was M 18
_ the one that did the typing work on it.
s 19 8, G Well, I'm not asking who typed it. I'm asking n
20 whose words they are.
21 A Mine.
([) 22 l G They're yours?
23 l',
A Yes.
, 1 24 0 Mr. Atchison, have you ever whited-out any 25 'i information on other personnel files of yours?
l l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. l
3358 i l
1-13 1 A No, sir, I have not.
O 2 G Sir, on Page 1 of your supplementary testimony, 3 in the middle of the large answer on that page, there is O 4 a sentence which says, "This was not supposed to be e 5 allowed."
E e
j 6 JUDGE COLE: I'm sorry. What page is that, R
8 7 sir?
E l 8 MR. REYNOLDS: This is Page 1.
d d 9 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
i C
b 10 G Sir, what was not supposed to be allowed?
3 h 11 A Are you on Exhibit 656?
3 12 0 656.
r' (s) 5y 13 A The middle of Page l?
m m
5 14 G Page 1.
15
{= A From the'information that I had been given on j 16 the jobsite by other people, this was a statement as to w
I7 their knowledge, and related to me, that they were not h=
{ 18 supposed to be allowed to use any foreign made materials P
"g 19 on the jobsite.
n 20 G I see. So you don't maintain, of your personal 21 knowledge, that this is a fact?
I>
' 22 A Yes, it is a fact that during a site surveil-23 lance, S-009, that I performed on the jobsite, part of that I
k) 24 j
surveillance uncovered some Japanese piping, approximately 25 six-inch, 40 foot long, approximately eight pieces that ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
{
3359
,1-14 1 Texas Utilities had purchased. That was in the laydown 2 yard being used for stanchions. Further investigation by 3 the QA manager at that time also revealed that there was 4 a large amount of angle iron and tube steel that had been e 5 manufactured in Japan that was on the site.
E 9
3 6 Q. Sir, you misunderstood my question.
R 8 7 A Okay.
l 8 G My question was, do you still believe that the d
d 9 use of Japanese made steel, or any foreign steel, is I
$ 10 proscribed at Comanche Peak?
3 h 11 A Personal knowledge -- all I have is second-M 12 hand information that presumably the FSAR does not allow N
()g5=
13 foreign made materials to be used.
m
$ 14 G I see. Could you show us where in the F5AR 15
{x
, that provision is?
y 16 A I have never looked it up.
m 6 17
$ 18 E
E 19 t A
20 i
- 21
() 22 23
()
i 24 l 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3360
@-1 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
1
- ( ) 2 G Sir, Page 7 of your supplementary testimony, n Line 3, you state that the NRC said that Texas Utilities '
3
() 4 representatives were improperly trained and so forth, e
A That's correct.
5 A
6 G Where did the NRC say this?
e 7 A This was in a conversation I had with some of jn 8 the investigation staff in regard to the initial allegation N 9 I had. Also , it was related through parties at Comanche i
h 10 Peak that part of the allegation was that there had been E
g jj probably a lack or deficiency in training on their people 3
6 12 as far as site inspection for a vendor's location.
3
() m 13 G Can you provide the names of those NRC em-E 34 ployees?
N x
2 15 A No, I cannot at this time. There have been
.- 16 several of them. It has been quite a while.
k W
d 17 , G Can you give us one name?
$ 18 A One person that I've had some conversation 5
19 o f -- and it would be Mr. Don Driskill.
R 20 G And Mr. Driskill said to you that Texas 21 Utilities representatives were improperly trained?
22 He said that he believed that that was part
(]) A.
23 ; of some of the problems. This was in a personal conversatic n 24 on a personal basis, not as official, but
(~ ) ...
25l G Sir, on the bottom of Page 7 and at the top of i
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
l 3361 l l
%-2 Page 8 you discuss certain photographs that you found in i 1
])
(~ the desk of Mr. Hawkins.
A That's correct.
3 G Sir, do you normally keep other people's
(])
possessions?
e 5 h A At this time Mr. Hawkins had been terminated a6 E after the failure of the ASME survey in October. The 5 7 s- new QA secretary was cleaning out his desk, that was 8
m 8
Q formerly Mr. Tolson's.
c 9
$ She said, "There's a large number of documenta-g 10 z
g tion in here. I don't know what to keep or what to throw p 11 away," because she had just returned to the job site.
c 12 z
(~)
is 5
! 13 While I was insisting her in trying to decipher m
p what documents were necessary to keep for further in-U formation, these photographs were found in his desk in his 5 possession.
s M
G Well, sir, why did you take them?
- b. 17 w
A This was, I thought, a very interesting item
{ jg
=
that did not need to be destroyed or thrown away.
{ 39 0 Well, sir, why didn't you provide them to Mr.
20 21 Hawkins' successor?
22 A There was never any inquiry about it.
)
23 G Well, how would there be, sir, if no one knew they existed but you, since you had taken them?
(]) 24 ,
A The QA secretary knew they existed. I'm sure 25[
i i
l I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3362 2-3 j that the authorities on the Comanche Peak site were well
() 2 aware of them, since they were polaroid photographs, and 3
n rmally . eras are not allowed on the job site, other
() 4 than those that are authorized by the client, Brown'& Root.
e 5 0 Are there other materials that you've taken A
h6 from the Comanche Peak site?
7 A Not that I'm aware of.
8 G What do the photographs show?
d d 9 A It shows a large concrete defect, concrete i
h 10 around it, a large void in the -- what I assume to be the E
s 11 reactor interface wall itself.
B d 12 O Would you be specific when you refer to the 3
(a J = 13 reactor interface wall?
l$ l-4 A All right. This would be the interior contain-2 15 ment around the reactor itself in the interior of the 5
g' 16 Reactor Building 1.
W 17 % And, sir how do you know that the photographs
=
M 18 are of that structure?
E
$ 19 A I said I just assumed that they were.
5 20 4 Do you have any basis at all for that sup-21 position?
() 22 A No, but from the appearance of the photographs, 23 this appeared to be the location of it, due to the
() 24 contour -- a band around the bottom and then the times 25 that I have been in the reactor building in that particular ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
2-4 3363 j area.
() 2 O You're saying, sir, that you can identify an 3 area of that plant by the contours of the concrete?
e
(,m) 4 A No. This was just -- Well, I said I am assum-e 5 ing that this is where it is.
R u
8 6 G I see.
m 7 A It's not a definite identification.
A l 8 4 You don't know?
d d 9 A No. I just said that these were found in the i
C
$ 10 QA manager -- ex-QA manager's desk.
E E 11 G Sir, have you ever taken documents from the 3
d 12 Comanche Peak safe?
E -
p a
'() y m
13 A Not other than the xerox copies that related l$ l-4 to me. A few copies of the NCR's, documents that were 2 15 given to me at my termination, and those that were requested 5
g 16 by me by certified letter after my termination.
W d 17 I do have in my possession the training manuals 5
{ 18 which are provided to all instructors as their property P
{
n 19 for further reference for certification courses, 20 G Sir, referring back to your primary testimony, 21 which is CASE Exhibit 650, there are attached to your testi-() 22 mony certain salary sheets, for example, 650Q, R and the 23 like.
] 24 A. Yes.
I 25 O Sir, how did you come to possess those documents ?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3364 2-5 j A At the time of my termination, Mr. Gordon Purdy
() 2 advised Mr. Randy Smith to give me all the information that 3 was in my personnel file, and a xeroxed copy of them at
() ,4 that time of termination, of which they did. That's how e 5 I obtained them.
A n
6 O Sir, why did you take copies of NCR's home with h
R g 7 you?
A 8 8 A These were duplicates copies - for my own in-n d
d 9 formation, accumulated.
i o
g 10 Another part of these areas at the time of 3
5 11 termination, stuff in my desk I was advised to go ahead a
12 and take all that stuff home by Randy Smith, at which time p$
() y =
13 it was put in a xerox box, because when you're terminated l$ 14 at 5:15 and the job site closes at 5:30, they were in 2 15 quite a hurry to get me off the site.
5 g 16 g Well, you didn't take any NCR's home with you w
d 17 that had not been entered into the system, did you?
5 5 18 A No, sir, not that I know of.
5 19 Sir, on Page 11 of your testimony --
{n G 20 A. The supplemental?
21 G I'm sorry, the supplemental, CASE Exhibit 656,
() 22 the first answer on Page 11 relates to the shipment of '
23 weld rod.
i
(]) 24 Sir, how is that related to quality assurance?
25 A. Well, in this particular line of information,
- ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3365 2-6
)
was dealing with a site purchasing supervisor, had tried,
(]) 2 because the job site was out of a particular weld rod --
3 the company had been out on strike about seven months and their annual audit that would be performed was four or
(]) 4 e 5 five months behind.
3 N
6 They were out of weld rod, and he had persisted 7 on a number of occasions trying to get the QA administrator 8 for this to go ahead and authorize shipment of these weld n ,
d d 9 rods before annual audit was performed, which he refused z'
$ 10 to do.
E 5 )) I was sent as the auditor, with John Martin as k
d 12 assistant auditor, to that site to perform an audit on the 3
=
QA program prior to the release of this material.
(]) 13 l 14 When we completed the audit, we walked off 2 15 site, came back, and he was qualified as a source inspector.
j 16 G Sir, I don't believe you're being responsive w
p 17 to my question.
$ 18- I simply asked you: How does the shipment --
=
H
[n 19 by truck, rail, bus, air freight, whatever -- relate to 20 quality assurance?
21 A All right.
22 The shipment that -- they sent a couple of
[) '
23 thousand pounds by air freight. It arrived three days 24 after the truckload did, and there was a large amount of 25 damage to the canisters, which were sealed at the factory, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3366 3-7 and detrimental even to the expenditures and loss of 1
Q materials which through normal process wouldn't have been --
This was just a continuation statement -- of other statements further in the testimony.
O Thank you.
n I think you said in there toward the end of that
}
c
" l statement that it related to costs. What was the end of y ur statement? It went so fast, I didn't catch it.
S m
8 4 _ _ _
= 9 i
e
$ 10 m
g 11 a
p 12 s
O e m
13 E 14 w
2 15 j 16 us d 17 w
5 w 18
=
C g I9 i n
20 21 0 22 23 ;
Q 24 25 !
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3367 j A I'm sorry. I'll try to slow down.
2g P W 2 The cost of air freight would exceed that f --
3 i- -
4 G I see.
e 5 A -- normal freight charges.
A N
$ 6 G Is that your point in stating this paragraph t
R I g 7 here?
s 8 8 A Yes. That's a continuation of, like I said, n
d d 9 an earlier statement in this testimony.
- /
h 10 G And, sir, at the bottom of Page 11, you discuss 3
5 11 a $1.5 million trailer and so forth. Are you certain that B
d 12 that trailer cost $1.5 million?
z
- "'; E (J j= 13 A Yes, I signed the requisition in the absence
{w 14 I
of Ron Meissner, who is normally in charge of that e i 2 15 responsibility.
w
=
y 16 i G I see.
- l d 17 A. The documentation comes through -- or the s
5 18 review of the purchase orders. The required documentation
=
H h 19 was labeled that, and I signed an authorization to go ahead M
20 for payment.
21 G Sir, what kind of equipment was in that 22 trailer?
l l
23 A. I have never been in it. I do not know.
r> 1 24 f G Did it ever occur to you that the cost, whatever l l
25 , it was, .u a y have related to hardware in the trailer?
. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
e 3368
'2-9 A I'm sure that the instrumentation in.there 1
(]) and what I was told it was, for systems testing and evaluation, could very well, maybe, exceed that amount.
3
(~} G Uh-huh. I --
%- 4
, A However, I have also stated in here that the n
3 6 time I had been out there and the time I had been active e
, g in going past there, I had seen very few -- hardly any --
- I 3 personnel working on that trailer.
5 u 8 9
- 9 That does not mean -- I'm just making a state-i ment of my own opinion.
E E
11 G Well, sir, could there have been expensive g
a j mputers in that trailer?
12 E'
Well, like I said, I have never been in the
(]) E 13 A.
E 14 trailer. I don't know what is in that trailer.
x 0 I see.
2 15 16 A It just seemed -- like a large amount for a B
W y7 12x48 trailer, w
I 18 G How is that relevant to quality assurance?
E t j9 A Well, this is not relative to quality as-
! 5 20 surance. But it also comes back into me as a ratepayer in 1
21 this particular area.
I see.
(]) 22 G 23 A -- the overexpenditures for items that might i
24 not be necessary, increasing my utility bill.
(])
-25l G Sir, how can you conclude that it's an t
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3369 2-10
- - overexpendi tu re of money, if you don't know what's'inside
() 2 the trailer?
3 A Well, this is why I'd like to find out what's
() 4 inside.
, -3 G Oh, I see.
M n
j e 6 Sir, on CASE Exhibit 660A, which we will pro-7 vide to you -- This is attached to, I believe, Mr.
2 8
a 8 Stiner's prepared testimony.
d d 9 MR. REYNOLDS: Ms. Ellis, has that been marked-z' h 10 for identification?
3_
E 11 JUDGE MILLER: CASE Exhibit 660 has been s
d 12 marked, and 660A.
3
() cy m
13 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
l$ l-4 G Are you familiar with this document, sir?
2 15 A Yes, I am.
g 16 G Is this the document we discussed yesterday?
w d 17 A Yes, it is.
5
$ 18 G Who prepared it?
P E 19 A. I did.
20 G Let me invite your attention to Page 3 of that
) 21 document, which is the first drawing.
e 4
() 22 A Correct.
] 23 ; G At the bottom right-hand corner it states, O 24 "Page 1 of 2."
V 25 { A Correct.
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3370 2-11 j G Is that your handwriting?
(]) 2 A Yes, it is.
3 G Did you prepare the drawing?
() 4 A Yes, I did.
e 5 g What are the dots on the top bar of the draw-A N
8 6 ing?
-e 7 A The dots represent gas pocket voids or s
8 8 porosity.
n d
d 9 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry, i
h 10 JUDGE MILLER: We can't understand you.
E 5 11 THE WITNESS: They represent gas pockets --
s g 12 what is considered -- known as porosity, with the exception
() 5y 13 of one.
=
l$ 14 Notice the angle shows -- on the inside a 2 15 one-eighth inch deep, quarter inch wide hole in this j 16 particular area.
A y' 17 MR. REYNOLDS: I see.
} 18 JUDGE MILLER: Mr. Atchison, get that mike P
{5 19 in front of you, please. Talk directly into it. Keep 20 your voice up and try to articulate a little more clearly 21 and slowly, will you? ,
() 22 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
23 JUDGE MILLER: Thank you.
() 24 Go ahead.
25 j ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3371 2-12 j BY MR. REYNOLDS:
() 2 G And where are the rejectable indications on 3
this drawing?
() 4 A This one was prepared under the AWS at which e 5 time they were being inspected. I believe the site M
n se 6 procedure calls out that porosity -- a total of three-7 quarter inches within a 12-inch given period would be a 8 rejectable condition, or if the indications showed that d
d 9 a bleedout, if a liquid penetrant would --
i h 10 JUDGE MILLER: Too fast; too fast.
3 5 11 THE WITNESS: All ': rig h t . sin performing this s
d 12 inspection through" paint, under the site procedures, a E
Oc d a
=
13 total of three-quarter inch porosity in a given 12-inch
$ 14 span would be rejectable for porosity.
U
=
2 15 In this particular drawing there is a one-E y 16 eighth inch deep, quarter-inch wide base metal defect, A
g 17 in what we term as a rat hole, in the upper left-hand w
=
5 18 corner.
P
{n 19 The round dots. indicate openings of porosity 20 through the top section.
21 You'll note that the dimensions given from the 22 base in the plate to the other, at 12 inches there's enough
(])
23 , indications more than a half inch long, that was a gas 24 pocket that you could submerge a standard metal scale into
(])
25 the root of the weld.
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3372 2-13 3
This I considered to be a rejectable con-em
(_
') 2 dition.
3 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
(h s_) G Now you're referring to the black dot in the 4
e 5 upper left-hand corner?
3 n
6 A Yes. This would be in the little curved h
R g 7 space.
8 G The rat hole?
d d 9 A Yes.
i h 10 G What are the dots on the remainder of the E
5 11 drawing?
B d 12 A This would be -- The round dots would be gas 3
=
cm)
(_ gj 13 ! pockets showing through the painted area. The long ones
= l l
5 14 would be elongated areas which I also considered to be 2 15 porosity.
5 -
g 16 G A rejectable indication?
w d 17 A To my way of thinking, yes.
5 5 18 G Well, sir, if, as you state, the criteria is E
19 a greater than three-quarter inch indication in any 12 i $
M 20 inches, the dimensions of this drawing appear to indicate 21 that there is a greater dis tance than 12 inches between the
() 22 indication. Can you explain that, please?
23 ,
A If you'll look at the top of the dimensions I
() 24 given, et 11 1/2 inches shown down -- if you'll come 25
- down, there's one there that is a half-inch long itself.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3373
- 2-14 That accumulated with the minimum of 1/16th
/ 1 in size and greater from there back to your left-hand
(])
side of the top.
3
/~~ There's enough indications there to show that (s} 4 it would be a rejectable condition.
o 5 A
e.* O Sir, are you stating that the one-half inch-3 o 6 R indication in the middle of the top bracket relates to
$ 7 s porosity?
8 n
8 Q A Yes. It appears to be a gas pocket, that I c 9
$ could stick a standard steel six-inch scale into.
k 10 E
= G We're talking about the indication at twelve 2 11 o' clock on this drawing?
- o. 12 3
{) m A Yes, sir.
p G Under which is stated "l/2 inch" and an arrow w
P
- drawn to it?
1 2 15 w
. A That's correct.
g 16
^
G Didn't you just earlier testify that it was
- b. 17 l w
n t porosity, but some other indication?
h 18 F
s j9 A No.
E n
20 0 Why isn't it marked with a dot?
21 A This one is in the elongation form.
23 ,
{} 24 1 25
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
I
3374 21 I G Well, sir, if we move from that point to the sd 2 right.
3 A okay, b'/ 4 G What is the distance between that point and 5
j the next indication?
9 h b A From that point of the half-inch one?
R b 7 G Yes: sir.
M
! O A It would be approximately almost two inches, d
d 9
}. approximately. It shows at_about thirteen inches, o
H 10 g seven-sixteenths.
=
II
$ G Well, sir --
a d 12 3 A one is shown in the miudle.
13
( ) @b G Help me now, please. I'm looking at the E 14 y numbers at the very top of the page which indicate inch
=
9 15 g distances.
- 16 g . Is_that. correct?
d w
17 A Correct.
=
$ 18
=
s G And from the one-half-inch indication that E 19 s you've marked, if you. move.to the right, it appears to me 20 that it's twelve-and-a-half. inches to the next indication.
21 A If you'll look right above the elongated one
(")
'/
~~
22 that's shown as a half-inch, you'll find a small spot 23 ,
there that will be one twelve-and-a-half inches.
f 24
(-] The next one will appear at about thirteen-25 and-seven-sixteenths.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3375
-2 1 G Well, if, then, the next one appeared at A
\/ 2 thirteen-and-seven-sixteenths, that's beyond the criteria 3 you specified; why did you mark it --
() 4 JUDGE McCOLLOM: Mr. Reynolds, let me ask a g 5 question or two. 'The total length of that part is how 9
@ 6 long? Left to right, how long is it?
R
$ 7 THE WITNESS: This entire part right here j 8 shows to be approximately twenty inches, twenty-and-three-d c} 9 quarter inches total.
3
$ 10 JUDGE McCOLLOM: The way you are marking this II 5 is a little unusual in marking lengths in my observation 3
f I2 as an engineer.
() 13 What I would expect there is that it's a half-E 14 g inch between the last spot on there, but I think you're x
C 15 b measuring it from the left-hand end.
x d Ib THE WITNESS: That is correct.
W d 17 d JUDGE McCOLLOM: So all of the numbers across x
$ 18
- the top of that sheet are how far that spot is from the 19 8
n left-hand side of the panel; i3 that correct?
20 THE WITNESS: That is correct.
21 JUDGE MILLER: You may proceed.
/~ 22 (y) BY MR. REYNOLDS:
23 G Sir, may I ask you to obtain a copy of the AWS
()
r' 24 Dl.1-81. Strike that, please.
25 l I think I understand now what this drawing i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3376
-3 I shows. Thank you for your clarification.
2 JUDGE MILLER: Is your question withdrawn?
3 MR. REYNOLDS: Yes.
(AJ 4 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
5 O Sir, on Page 48 of your principal testimony, g
9
@ 6 Exhibit 650, you discuss a matter involving a pipe whip Re S 7 restraint --
I believe it'c a pipe whip restraint --
where s
j 8 you marked indications because the welding had been d
9 downhill.
~.
z o
y 10 A Yes, I did.
E II
$ G Is that a CB&I pipe whip restraint?
E I2 fc A Yes, it was.
() 13 l 0 With,what process was the weld made?
E I4 A I'n not familiar with the exact procedures. I g
- x 9 15 Q don't have the documentation for CB&I. The exact
- z d I0 procedure they used, I don't know.
w M 17 j w G You don't know whether it was plasma arc
=
$ 18
- welding, for example?
19 l A No, I do not.
20 0 Shielded metal arc welding?
21 A I would presume it was shielded arc metal
() because of the weld spots that occurred in some areas 23 I l
of that part.
24 O. G Mr. Atchison, do you know Mr. C. T. Brandt?
25 ! '
A Yes, I do.
I I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3377 >
-4 1 0 Are you familiar with his qualifications?
pm
' 2 A No, I am not.
3 G Would you agree, based on your experience, that 4 he is more qualified than you in welding inspection?
5 A I could only assume it because of his y
4
@ 6 position and responsibility as Mr. Tolson's right-hand R
e g 7 man; he has to have something on the ball someplace, even n
[ 8 though there was a differential between his opinion and d
c; 9 mine.
z o
10 Are you aware that he's a Level 3 welding h G
=
II k inspector?
k d 12 z A I am not.
c
) 13 G Would that make a difference?
E 14 w A If he was tested per 1980 SNTC-1A requirements, 9 15 G even thought we worked on a '75 addenda, yes, it would make x
y 6 a difference; or if someone waved a magic wand and said, w
G 17 g "Okay, because of your past history and experience, then 5 18
= you are a Level 3," then I might have some questions on it.
D 19 j G But if he is a Level 3, then, would he be 20 more qualified than you in welding inspecting?
21 A Yes, he would.
() G What was the document you just reference, 23 t SNT....
rw 24
() A SNTC-1A?
25 '!
G Yes. What is that?
f ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
I
3378 25 1 A This is American National Testing Society.
t s 2 This is their guidelines for certification of inspection.
3 G Does the SNT document address visual testing
('T (J 4 requirements?
g 5 A It does not.
O j 6 MR. REYNOLDS: Thank you, Mr. Atchison. No R
S 7 further questions.
A O
N BY MR. REYNOLDS:
d 9
]". O Mr. Atchison, one last question.
o H 10 p Staff Exhibit 199 is a document which transmits
=
!I
's the investigation report of the NRC with regard to certain d 12 3 allegations made by you.
=
13 It's dated July 7, 1982. Are you familiar with E 14 y the document?
m C 15 Q
x We'll provide you with a copy, if you don't
? 16 g have one.
6 17 w A Please. I don't have it, I don't believe.
=
5 18
= G Sir, please satisfy yourself that the document 4
- 19 g you are being handed is what I stated.
20 A Okay.
21 G Have you read this document before?
(3 22 A Not in its entirety.
(./
23 4
- JUDGE MILLER
- Pardon me. I can't hear you.
, Let's get the mike in front of you. Now, 25
! regardless of who is asking the questions, answer to the i
/
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3379
'6 1 Board, will you, pl. ease.
2 If you go too fast, I'll give you a signal.
3 THE WITNESS: Okay. Yes, I have read it I) 4 briefly.
J 5 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
g 9
@ 6 0 Let me invite your attention to Page 5 of the R
b 7 attachment to the letter.
. s
[ 8 In the first large paragraph, approximately 0
~.
9 in the middle of the page, let me ask you to read the z
o i t 10 next-to-the-last sentence in the paragraph, starting E
II
$ with the words, " Individual A."
s A Okay, c
() 13 JUDGE' MILLER: Now remember, look this way.
3 1 <4
% THE WITNESS: " Individual A stated that none z
9 15 2
z of his activities were performed without the knowledge and 0
d approval of his immediate supervisor, Individual E, nor w .
d 17 w had he been counseled regarding his unsatisfactory z
M 18
- performance on his part." End of sentence.
s E 19 g BY MR. REYNOLDS:
20 g Okay, I believe the word before " unsatisfactory "
21 is "any"?
O 4. "^=v "
23 I g Sir, what is meant by the word " counseled" in
-m 24
() that sentence?
25 A " Counsel" means that on the Brown & Root job
, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
, 4 g *%
3380
-7 1; site at Comanche Peak, in the pr6 cess at Comanche Peak O 2 ehere is a guidance and counse11ng ,s tm , ~_
s which for a number 3 of reasonb that's pre-established on t h e r.e , a section s s, O
4 merked oeh>r,- ehee sugerviesen hes chie 1wr en j
e 5 ijnstrumen't. As a hypothetical case,jif_a, d 'I -
6 person had excessive absenteeism, he could be' brought into g
R k b 7 the office,-counseled on this, has an opportun4ty to make '
Z ,
S 8 M a comment, sign this statement.
O s d 9 -s ~
j Then it goes into his personnel file, at c
h 10' lOhich time they can place a person on probation to see
= .
2 11
< improvement.
y1 ,
s d
z
' 12 Like I said, a hypothetical example for e .
3 O
enseaeeeism, it could he >'1 aced in ehere.for ninety deve E ~ -
p ,14 ,i ',
or for,a year.
- s 9 15 l '
!:i .- They also use i :. , or have use,d it in the z
~
16 i8 j past for discussions of qualities, evaluations, pay raises,
- a x s. ' any type of guidance or counseling that must be undertaken
!R 18' -,
= on the job site.
e 19 i
j '
.. Q.
Is counseling mandatory before an employee is i
20 terminated?
21 x A The job site precedures that.were implemented i t 22 '
N y from the time I was employed, an in'dividual woul1 be given
~'
23 ,
c anxopportunity-twice <n#a counseling and guidance report.
s 24 e O. ,
The third' time a counseling and~ guidance 25lI report was issued, de was normally terminated.
I i 4 ALDERSON REPORTING .
COMPANY. INC.
. - . . - - . - - - - , L- ,- , r -- . . . - , _ , -_.n,
3381
-8 1 0 What are those procedures?
() 2 A This was filled out --
I don't know, I believe 3 unwritten procedures, like Mr. Tolson's built-in
() 4 corrective action program.
e 5 g These were unwritten procedures?
h
@ 6 A I have never seen them in writing. It was R
d 7 a practice for three-and-a-half years on the job site s
j 8 while I was there.
d C 9 Are you aware that everyone that was terminated z,
0 o
@ 10 at Comanche Peak but yourself was counseled before he 3
c h a
II l was terminated?
g 12 A They were not.
m
(]) f13 m
g I see. So it isn't the standard practice to 5 I4 counsel people, necessarily, before terminating them?
15
{
t.
A Up through, I believe, . it was February or j 16 early March 1982, this had been the practice at that job W
site.
x M 18
_- 0 I see, and subsequent to that time it was not N
19 8 the practice?
n 20 A After that time it was not.
21 g I see, and when were you terminated, sir?
() 23 A April the 12th.
O of what year?
24 A 1982.
(])
' 25 '
! O After the practice had ceased?
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
338"'
-9 1 A I did not know the practice had ceased.
() 2 g But, sir, I thought you just testified the 3 practice ceased in March?
() 4 A Yes. This was due to the termination of 4
e 5 Mr. Brandt of two other inspectors for failing to h
j 6 jeopardize their life on inspecting a painted area on R
b 7 top of the polar crane without proper scaffolding or 3
9 8 a safety line equipment.
d 9
% Yes. So the procedure had ceased in March?
e 10 A h The procedure ceased at that point --
=
!w II g I see. Thank you.
d 12 z A --
and when they were terminated by an Ebasco
() 13 employee that was in the service of Texas Utilities.-
E l<4 w g I see.
9 15 Q
x MR. REYNOLDS: No further questions.
JUDGE MILLER: Staff?
d 17 -
w MS. ROTHSCHILD: Mr. Chairman., we would like x
5 18
= a two-minute recess before we start our cross.
H 19 g JUDGE MILLER: All right. We will take 20 five minutes. ,
25 (Recess taken.)
22 O - - -
23 i
(J 25 ;
i i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3383 1 JUDGE MILLER: All right. We will come to 4r) i y 2 order.
ed 3 You may proceed.
() 4 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, before we proceed, e 5 we just handed out a document which was referenced E
4 3 6 yesterday.
R
$ 7 We said we would provide copies to all parties.
A j 8 This was the document NCR M-2685 which Mr. Atchison wrote d
[ 9 up and was discussed yesterday.
z o
$ 10 We agreed to provide copies to all parties,
@ 11 and we move that CASE Exhibit 662 be admitted into
?
12 evidence.
N 3
13 (The document referred to was
(])
a d I'4 marked for identification as 15 CASE Exhibit No. 662.)
{x y 16 JUDGE MILLER: Thank you. Any objection?
W I7 MR. REYNOLDS: No objection. t
.h 5
IO JUDGE MILLER: It will be admitted.
3 A
19 (The document referred to, g
n 20 heretofore marked as CASE 2I Exhibit No. 662, was received N 22 in evidence.)
(d
! MR. REYNOLDS: Mr. Chairman, by the same token, Applicants move that Applicants' Exhibits 132
(}
25 through 137 for identification be received at this time.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3384 02 1 JUDGE MILLER: Any objection?
() 2 MR. ROTHSCHILD: No objection.
3 JUDGE MILLER: Any objection?
I') 4 MS. ELLIS: No objection.
V 5 JUDGE MILLER: They may be received.
g 9
@ 6 (The documents referred to, R
$ 7 heretofore marked as Applicants' s
j 8 Exhibits Nos. 132 through 137, d
d 9 were received in evidence.)
i c
g 10 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, one more thing II
$ before the Staff begins its cross-examination.
3 I I2 We have now had an opportunity to look closer E
[}f13 E 14 at the copies of the statements of the inspection reports --
w of the statements of the people referenced in the 9 15 g inspection reports about Mr. Atchison.
m 16 g Some of the documents are unreadable. Some 17 d I of them are of such quality that we cannot read what x
$ 18
= they say. Some of them are unidentified.
j 19 What we have is such a mishmash that it's 20 impossible to be very useful.
21 We move that the Staff be ordered to provide 22 O clear copies of these for us, and that the people who are 23 l referenced in these reports be called to testify so that
() 25 :
Mr. Atchison can have an opportunity to get something in sworn form from these people.
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3385
>3 1 JUDGE MILLER: Well, as far as Mr. Atchison (Gj 2 is concerned, there is nothing before the Board in that 3 regard.
4 Staff has been directed and ordered to produce
(])
g 5 both clear copies and unexpurgated copies.
8
@ 6 They have not done so, so we have the record R
$ 7 showing what we're talking about.
A j 8 Let the record show that the documents with a d
C 9
, number of black markings and so forth were handed to the z
O 10 Board and the parties by the Staff yesterday.
h
=
II
$ I think there were two groups of such s
I2 fa documents. We'll ask that they be designated as Board
() 13 Exhibits SA and 5B, please.
E 14 g (The documents referred to were x
15
{x marked for identification as
~
16 g- Board's Exhibits Nos. 5A and 5B, d 17 a and were received in. evidence.)
x M 18
- JUDGE MILLER: The one with an "A" will be A.
P j 19 SA is the one which happens to have the letter "A" in black 20 at the top with a number of interlineations, and the 21 date April 14, 1982, 1540.
22
()
~
The other document which has date 8-22-80 23 ,
handwritten 80-22 at the top, again with'a number of black l
24 ~
omissions or censoring or whatever you want to call it,
(])
25 '
will be SB.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
.- - .- . _. ._ =-
3386
-4 1 Board Exhibit 5A I have just identified. The
() 2 one next to it, following it, is Board Exhibit SB.
3 Are .those the documents you've just been
() 4 referring to, Ms. Ellis?
g 5 MS. ELLIS: Yes, there were several documents 4
3 6 here which were provided, several different ones. These R
b 7 are the ones we were talking about.
A j 8 JUDGE MILLER: Well, there are two groups d
c 9 stapled together, the ones that were handed to the Board.
10 MS. ELLIS: Yes. Right.
h
=
II k JUDGE MILLER: All right. Does the Staff
's
" 12 E have any uncensored, unexpurgated documents, Mr. Driskill's O!' E 14 regeree2 g MS. ROTHSCHILD: No, we do not, Mr. Chairman.
x b JUDGE MILLER: Then I have given you the best x
16 g information that we can, Ms. Ellis, at this time.
p 17 a
. Now, Staff may proceed with cross-examination.
x 5 18
= MS. ROTHSCHILD: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.
s E 19 g JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
20 MR. TREVY: Could we request that Ms. Ellis 21 indicate what pages or what portion of the documents --
22 O JUDGE MILLER: No, what she's objecting to 23 are the marks that make it look like the battlefield in 24 O Lebanon.
25 The record is replete and we don't have to go ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3367 05 1 into it again what the problem is with the Staff's
(]) 2 markings which are very obvious and very evident.
3 We don't want to go into it further. You have 4 made your record and it stands,
(])
e 5 MR. TREVY: I agree with that, Mr. Chairman.
h j 6 Jiy only question was that I had understood her to say was R
C S 7 that one of her objections was she couldn't read some of M
j 8 these pages.
d q 9 MS. ELLIS: Yes, Judge, that's ccrrect.
E 10 MR. TREVY: And all I'm asking is if she h=
II could identify which pages she's finding unreadable, perhaps s
fS I2 we could make better copies of it.
(]) 3j 13 MS. ELLIS: Perhap's I could do that at the 14 Q break.
j x
15 MR. TREVY: My understanding is that her 16 complaint is not --
I7 Her complaint is that h JUDGE MILLER: --
t x
! M 18
- MR. TREVY: She has an additional complaint 19 l besides the markings -- -
20 THE REPORTER: Would you speak one at a time, 21 please.
(]) JUDGE MILLER: One at a time.
23 i The complaint goes to the total documents, f
() 25
~ including both the marking out as well as some obscuring, even in the uncensored portion of it.
j ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
i t
i 3368 6 1 At the recess you'll be given the pages of 2 the uncensored portions which she finds themselves to be
(])
3 difficult to read, and you will be given an opportunity, 4 at any time of course, to supply unaltered documents of
(])
g 5 the Driskill report.
0
@ 6 Proceed with your cross-examination, please.
R
$ 7 MR. TREVY: All right. We will proceed with A
j 8 our cross-examination.
d c; 9 We believe that since the documents have now z
o
@ 10 been marked, they will speak for themselves as to how 3
II clear --
3 N I2 JUDGE MILLER: What they say is --
5 a
13 MR. TREVY: --
or unclear they arc.
{} g l$ 14 JUDGE MILLER: --
something you probably jx 15 wouldn't want to hear me say, but we've been over this.
g 16 I don't want to encumber the record, so just let's go M
forward with cross-examination.
e
$ CROSS-EXAMINATION A
19 8
n BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
20
% Mr. Atchison, you testified about a January 21 1982 NCR which I believe you testified you submitted concerning weld defects in vendor-supplied items.
(]) 23
, Were there site procedures concerning the 24
{) 25 ,
submittal and processing of NCR's?
i A Yes, there is.
I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
^
3389
-7 1 % ,
Were there procedures in written form? ,
O 2 a. Yes, there is.
3 G Do you recall the designation.of that h 4 procedure by the number?
e 5 A Not offhand, no.
A n
3 6 MR. REYNOLDS: Mr. Chairman, may I have leave
^
n C
" 7 of the Board to step out of the room for one minute?
s j 8 JUDGE MILLER: Of course. Do you want us to d
ci 9i wait your return.
2 C
$ 10 MR. REYNOLDS: No.
3 II JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
j 3 I
fS I2 You may proceed.
O!' - --
$ 14 e
2 15 5
g 16 m
d 17 18 5"
19 8
n 20 21
- o 22 23 l
^
O 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3391 l
9 1 I had to go to the non-ASME coordinator to --
() 2 JUDGE MILLER: Remember our agreement.
3 A -- obtain the procedure for filing a non-ASME
) 4 NCR.
e 5 g Well, are you saying there was a different h
@ 6 procedure for the type of work you were doing then?
' R
& 7 A In regard to what? Can you explain, please?
1 3 j 8 g Concerning the submittal and. processing of d
o} 9 NCR's?
z o
g 10 A There's two different avenues to follow.
E II
$ One is --
3 y 12 g Well --
f]
(_/ 5 O 13 JUDGE MILLER: The question is are there m
14 di f f e rer.ce s , yes or no, between the avenues, and then x
9 15 g we can have you explain it. If they are the same --
x i
d Ib THE WITNESS: They are basically the same, w
d 17 x yes, sir.
5 i w 18
_ BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
h 19 j g I see. So you were familiar with the 20 comparable procedure. There was a comparable procedure 21 governing the kind of work you were then involved in?
' N 22 A Yes.
0 I see. Well, didn't that procedure require 23 l s 24 m
that a QC inspector submit a draft NCR to his immediate i
25 l
! supervisor for review and initialing by the immediate
. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3330
-8 1 BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
f~)
v 2 g Mr. Atchison, if I showed you a copy of CP 3 QP Procedure 16.0, would that refresh your recollection?
() 4 A Yes, that sounds like the proper procedure 5 for....
g a
h 6 MS. ROTHSCHILD: I would note that this is R
$ 7 Applicants' Exhibit No. 60.
j 8 JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
O q 9 BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
z C
h 10 g Have you had a chance to look at that?
3-II
$ A Yes.
S y,
12 g Is that the procedure to which you were D 3
(- g 13 referring when you just answered my previous question?
I# A This is one of them, yes.
x 9 15 i G G Well, it is a procedure governing the x
5 I0 submittal and processing of NCR's, correct?
\
^
d 17 This is only non-ASME criteria acceptance w A Yes.
l
> x
$ 18 l - for Texas Utilities.
P G I see. So in your capacity as a QC inspector, 20 you would be knowledgeable of this procedure?
I 21 A At the time, and referring to the NCR, in January, I was working the ASME side of the house, and I l
was more familiar with that one than I was the one that l
l
() you have presented to me in this exhibit.
The missing NCR, as I believe has been stated, 25 (
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
O
3392
-10 1 supervisor before the NCR was submitted to the NCR 2 coordinator?
't 3 A I cann't give you an exact yes. Yes, you are 4 correct in the basic context, but that's not always the e 5 way it transpired on the job site.
A N
lR 6 g You mean you didn't follow procedures or --
$ 7 A This is not always the way that the procedure a
! ] 8 actually works. This is normal procedure, yes, but there d
c; 9 are circumstances of where it does not always work that z
c g 10 way.
5 II g Could you describe those circumstances?
s N I2 A A lot of times you have to go back and do some E
O _
5 13 research, get the necessary forms, information, get the E 14 g particular paragraphs which have been violated, in order E
g 15 to establish your draft copy before it's being submitted.
m j 16 g But still, even once all that was done, wasn't w
f f z
I7 it still necessary by the procedure, weren't you required I0 to submit a draft NCR to your immediate supervisor for f b
?
19 ~
review and initialing by the immediate supervisor before i g l
20 the NCR was submitted to the NCR coordinator?
21 A You have to obtain the NCR number at one point.
Then normally, once you have the number issued to it, then 23 l your draft copy would go to the supervisor.
I I \ 24 i l
('J
( l 4 Well, in the particular case to which you are 25 l
! referring, did you submit a draft NCR to your immediate I
h ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3393
-11 1 supervisor for review and initialing before the NCR was (m
v 2 submitted to the NCR coordinator?
3 A No. I took the NCR to the nonconformance 4 coordinator for her assignment of number. She was not in e 5 the office. I left it on her desk and returned to the 3
9
@ 6 field to process inspections.
R 8 7 I went back several times and could not find M
l 8 it, and because of the workload at that particular time, d
0; 9 I did not have the opportunity to pursue it.
z o
G 10 g You mean you -- I assume you had identified 3_
11 something in this NCR that you felt could have been an B
I I2 indication of a defect; isn't that correct?
b C)'
( 5 13 A This is correct.
m l$ 14 g And yet you just never got back to it?
15 A No, sir. At that particular time we were on h
m j 16 ten hours a day, six or seven days a week, and my job w
17 load does not always participate that I could make all h
m M 18
_ the connections necessary.
g I9 % Thenk you.
\
l 20 One other question along this line. Did you i
21 discuss the format or any aspect of the NCR with the
() 22 non-ASME NCR coordinator prior to the time you left it on 23 '
- i her desk?
L
() A There's a point in order to get the necessary l 25
! forms for the non-ASME side of the house, I had discussed ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3394
-12 1 it with her.
2 G Mr. Atchison, may I direct your' attention to 3 Page 67 of your written direct testimony?
4 A Is this Exhibit 650?
e 5 g Yes.
E a
@ 6 A Okay.
R
$ 7 g The question beginning on the seventh line s
j 8 down, I think you answered questioning the effectiveness d
c; 9 of the NRC inspectors and investigations.
z c
g 10 Have you had any experience as an investigator?
E 3
II A Other than those related to my auditing I experiences at the vendor site. I am not a licensed, nor I have I ever' practiced, represented.myself as an E 14 y investigator itself, other than site surveillance and z
9 15 g auditing procedures where you are trying to determine 16 g what facts would go where.
l @ 17 l w G Well, you also questioned there the lack of I
=
5 18
= NRC manpower.
19 g A Correct.
20 G Are you aware that in addition to the resident 21 inspector, Mr. Taylor, to whom you refer, that other NRC 22 f^)
(- inspectors conduct inspections at Comanche Peak?
23 ,
A Yes, on a random basis.
G Thank you.
l 25 l Well, you've suggested that the resident inspector ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3395
-13 ) is not effective because of his -- and I'm quoting you --
() 2 " familiarity with the plant management top personnel."
3 ,
could you explain that statement?
() 4 A Yes, It is my personal feeling, and if other e 5 people on the job site in the field as field inspectors 3
n
@ 6 could or would come forward, they would also feel -- make R
$ 7 the statement that they feel that Mr. Taylor is too s
j 8 familiar with the Texas Utilities people in the apper d
0; 9 management, and because he is one person trying to cover z
O g 10 the entire staff, that his inadequacy in being able to 2
11 uncover various areas of defects there.
h S
g 12 g What do you mean by " familiar"?
rw (J g 13 A Probably not only on a professional, but also
=
, b I4 on a personal basis.
C 15 b G Well, you mean -- What do you mean by
=
E I6 " personal"?
w
' 17 d A I think I can clarify your question real quick.
=
$ 18
_ In my personal opinion, he's too familiar with the staff l
t H 19 8
n people on there that he might be willing to overlook some 20 things or give them information to correct things before 21 he would do an investigation or write up an inspection
()
( ,/
22 report detrimental to Comanche Peak, t
23 '
l G Do you have any personal knowledge or do you
/"i 24 (j recall any such instance where that occurred?
25 A In the -- I believe it's 1980 statement I had ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
339G 214 1 given to Mr. Driskill, one area was --
mysteriously, one 2 of the other inspectors that was in the office at the time 3 I gave him the statement appeared at the job site two days 4 before Mr. Driskill did, and all of a sudden one of the e 5 allegations I had made was found by Mr. Taylor and Mr. --
3 n
@ 6 I forget the other inspector's name --
and probably R
$ 7 corrected prior to Mr. Driskill coming on the site.
s
] 8 g You say ~"probably."' Do'you know?
O c; 9 A No, I do not.
z c
g 10 g I see. Well, you also stated that -- You
_3 Il 5 just previously stated that there was one person to cover a
f I2 the whole site, and yet I thought just a few sentences 13 ago you acknowledged that there are other NRC inspectors l$ 14 who perform inspections on the site.
2 15 It seems to me that's inconsistent.
=
k M
JUDGE MILLER: He said on a random basis, if i
h you'll recall, and so you had better put his qualification I
=
$ 18
_ in if you are going to get to an impeachment.
9 19 8
n MS. ROTHSCHILD: Yes.
20 BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
21 g Well, you just stated that there was one N inspector to cover the whole site, but previously you did 23 f acknowledge -- or you stated that there were other NRC
- ("T 24 i
(/ I inspectors who performed inspections on a random basis; is l
25 :
I that correct?
l \
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
i
_ - _ . - - ~ _ .
i 3337
-15 1 A Yes. Mr. Taylor is the permanent site 2 resident, and on occasions --
I cannot give you the time 3 span --
sometimes I've seen them there a couple of weeks
) 4 in a row and at other times it's been several months 5 before they return. It depends on the --
g 9
3 6 0 Yes. That would be -- Would that be what --
R b 7 JUDGE MILLER: Wait a minute. He hadn't s
[ 8 finished, d
q 9 Finish your answer, and then stop so she can i E 10 ask you a question.
h ,
=
II k THE WITNESS: Thus the termination that I 5
f I2 said, randomly.
I BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
' E 14 w g I see. Well, concerning what you feel 9 15 2 Mr. Taylor's improper familiarity with top management, x
T 16 y would you say that top management -- Who do you mean by l
6 17 I
w top management?
x
$ 18
= JUDGE MILLER: Well, now, wait a minute. Which N
l - 19 l g question are we asking?
20 3 BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
l 0 Mr. Atchison, what do you mean by top O 27 management?
! 23 ,
i A This would be Mr. Ron Tolson and the top r's 24
() administrative staff for Texas Utilities at Comanche Peak 25 l!
job site.
l j ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
t
) -
aass l I
i
- -16 1 0 Well, aren't these people at least on site the ,
2 people who are ultimately responsible for the proper 4
. 3 workings of the QA/QC program, and to whom the NRC findings l OU 4 of any deficiencies should be brought?
= 5 A This is correct, h
j j 6 - _ _
. ; i l $ 7
! M 8 8 ,
i n ,
1 0
! d 9
- r:
. o
! g 10
- z
! E j p 11
! ti 12 i N i
O i= is E 14
- s 2 15 1 Y >
j 16 us 6 17 y ;
5 18
=
, 19 A
20 l
i 21 ,
l l
22 lO 23 ,
O l 25 ;
I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3399 r j BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
71 b' 2, G Well, were there any specific instances that 3 you know of personally in which the NRC resident in-() 4 spector was ineffective on the job site because of e 5 familiarity with top management?
h 8 6 A I cannot name any specific ones, no, e
R g 7 G I see. You stated on Page -- I direct your s
8 8 attention to Page 3 of your supplemental testimony. Would n
d d 9 you read -- I'm talking about the middle of the page, z-h 10 the first answer.
3 5 11 Would you read starting with the fourth sen-4 S
g 12 tence. I believe it begins, "I."
_) Ey 13 JUDGE MILLER: Where is this?
m l$ 14 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Page 3 of his supplemental 2 15 testimony.
j 16 JUDGE MILLER: The first complete answer?
A d 17 i MS. ROTHSCHILD: Yes, starting with --
N 5 18 JUDGE MILLER: Let him read the entire thing
=
H 19 then. We don't want it out of context.
h n
20 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Okay.
2I JUDGE MILLER: Do you see where she means
() 22 there?
23 THE WITNESS: Yes.
() 24 JUDGE MILLER: Starting: " Answer: Two or 25f three of the people," and so forth.
I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3100 5_2 THE WITNESS: Yes.
() 2 JUDGE MILLER: Now read it slowly. Look at us.
3
() 4 THE WITNESS: "Two or three people at CB&I.
e 5 were fired and a couple of them demoted because of it.
E 6
A 50.55(e) report, reportable deficiency" --
7 JUDGE MILLER: Hold it. What was that?
8 Now, parenthesis what?
N 9 THE WITNESS: "A' reportable" --
i S 10 JUDGE MILLER: A report of a reportable --
e Z
$ 11 THE WITNESS: -- " deficiency" --
k d 12 JUDGE MILLER: Close.
E 13 THE WITNESS: Close.
f ) s$
a 14 "and NCR were written on it. Ron Tolson w
2 15 and Jim Hawkins were trying to get things calmed down.
E j 16 They didn't seem to be too concerned about it. I went A
6 17 to the NRC and talked with it and talked to the in-5 M 18 vestigators about it. They came to the job site the same h
l
{M 19 day that three truckloads of the product came in. The 20 NRC made them go through a backfit program. The utility 1
21 committed to it. A CB&I inspector came to the job site.
22 After two weeks on the job site, they couldn't get them
(])
( 23 properly ground welded put together, and three truckloads 24 were rejected and sent back."
(])
l 25 l /
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
t
3401
! BY MS, ROTHSCHILD:
5-3 I
(]) G Doesn't that appear, since you state that the NRC made --
Who are you speaking to when you refer to "them"?
(}
A This would be Texas Utilities.
A G Well, since you state that the NRC made 7 Texas Utilities go through a backfit program, doesn't that 8 suggest to you that with respect to this instance, that the j 9 NRC's inspection actions were effective?
i 10 A It w uldn't have been if I had not brought it h
z j gj to the attention of them.
d 12 0 Well, what I'm asking you, though, is once 8
y u brought it to their attention and the fact that the
(]) 13 E 14 NRC "made them commit to a backfit program," doesn't that N
! 15 suggest that the NRC was being effective?
5
? 16 A In this instance, yes.
B W
p 17 G I see. Now, also, I would like to direct your g
M 18 attention to -- Do you have a copy of the transcript
-E
[
x 19 of the deposition that was taken by Applicants' counsel of n
20 you on June 21, 1982?
21 A Yes.
() 22 G Page 57.
23 JUDGE COLE: This is the deposition?
l 24 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Yes, it's the transcript
)
25 of the deposition of Mr. Atchison.
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3402
- JUDGE MI LLE R
- You had better identify it and
)
- 5 ,oq V 2 put it into evidence so the Board will know what you're 3
talking about and the record will reflect it. We don't 4 have it before us to my knowledge, e 5 MS. ROTHSCHILD: I would just like to mark it M
n 8 6 for identification.
e R
- 8- 7 JUDGE MILLER: If you're going to go into
)
~
8 it, mark it it so all of the parties can --
d
- d 9 MS. ROTHSCHILD
- We just want to read the 7:
O g 10 s ta tement --
3 5 11 JUDGE MILLER: I don't care what you want.
a j 12 The proper form is to identify for the record any document.
E O j 13 Now since you're going into a deposition -- and it's quite m
i l$ 14 apparent it's for impeachment purposes and is to be shown 2 15 to the witness, he must be given a fair opportunity to E
j 16 answer; and the Board certainly wants to follow what is e
d 17 being said.
5 5 18 Now mark it; let us have a copy; and proceed.
, 5
$ 19 Or do you want to put black marks on it? We M
20 want to see the copy. You've raised the question, let's 21 have it.
() 22 MS. ROTHSCHILD: We would like to have marked 23 for identification as Staff Exhibit -- I'll have to get I
24 the number --
l 25 l JUDGE MILLER: All right. We'll get you the I
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. ;
3403 I """ "#*
5-5
() 2 MS. ROTHSCHILD: --
a copy of the transcript 3 of the deposition of Charles Atchison taken for Texas
(]) 4 Utilities Generating Company, Reporter: Sandy G. Poe, e 5 dated June 21, 1982.
U h 6 JUDGE MILLER: It may be so marked. We'd R
& 7 like to have copies furnished to the reporter and to the N
j 8 Board.
d d 9 THE REPORTER: The number would be 200.
N g 10 JUDGE MILLER: 200 seems to be your next number E
j 11 in order.
s y 12 (The document above.-referred to 5
(]) yx 13 was marked as Staff Exhibit No.
=
g 14 200 for identification.)
15 Mr. Chairman, we'll have to
{x MS. ROTHSCHILD:
j 16 provide -- We have just one copy that we could show to w
17 the Board now, and we can provide the other copies later.
h x
$ 18 JUDGE MILLER: Well, in order to use documents P
19 you know very well that you'ra supposed to give documents g
n 20 to the Board, to the parties and to the reporter. This 2I surely isn' t a surprise to you, Ms. Rothschild. It's
() 22 part of the regulations that you're familiar with.
MS. ROTHSCHILD: We just would like to have
- He has a copy of the document.
him read a statement. I
(])
25 i was just asking him to read it.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3404
'5 - 6 y JUDGE MILLER: He may have. We don't. We ~
() 2 told you that we want it.
3 MS. ROTHSCHILD: I can provide the Board with 4 a copy.
e 5 JUDGE MILLER: Very well. We'll accept it.
A n
6 (Document handed to Judge Miller.)
R g 7 JUDGE MILLER: Thank you.
E j 8 What page now do you wish to refer to, Ms.
d d 9 Rothschild?
Y
@ 10 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Page 57.
3 h 11 JUDGE MILLER: Very well. Now this is Staff's a
j 12 Exhibit 200, I believe, next in order; is that correct?
() 5 13 We got the number from the reporter.
l 14 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Okay. I believe that's 15
{m correct.
g 16 JUDGE MILLER: Very well. All right.
W 17 Look at 1
{m Mr. Atchison, now keep our agreement.
5 18 Page 57 of the deposition, look at a reasonable number of P
"g 19 pages before and after, if you have any problems with n
20 what is the context.
2I But look at the page, and counsel will ask
() 22 you to read whatever it is that she wants you to read 23 i into the record.
() 24 THE WITNESS: Correct.
25 ; j ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3405 5-7 y
BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
2 G Mr. Atchison, would you please read Lines 12 3
through 21 of that page.
4 A. " Question: Do you respect Mr. Taylor?
e 5 " Answer --
E n
d 6 G No, no, I said starting with Line 12. That's e
N p, 7 on my copy --
E
] 8 A. I'm sorry.
d ci 9 JUDGE MILLER: "Well, my personal opinion," do
- s b 10 you find that?
E I 11 THE WITNESS: Yes.
b d 12 JUDGE MILLER: Read it slowly so the reporter 15 c
can get it.
l Od: 13 14 THE WITNESS: " Answer: Well, my personal h
E 2 15 opinion is that Mr. Taylor" --
E
]
. 16 JUDGE MILLER: No, it isn't. Read it again.
us 6 17 , THE WITNESS: "Well, my personal opinion is
. E 5 18 tha t while Mr. Taylor's credentials and stuff may
=
C j g 19 be unimpeccable, he is short on work force. He is n
20 one man trying to watch 4000 craft and 200 inspectors I
l 21 do a job, and he may not consider this a concern."
22 How far did you want me to read?
l 23 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Through 21, please.
24 THE WITNESS: " Question: Do you respect Mr.
O 25l Taylor?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3406 5-8
" Answer: In fact that he's qualified" --
3 JUDGE MILLER: No, "In the fact."
2 3
THE WITNESS: "In the fact that he had 4 qualified and was the Nuclear Regulatory Commission e 5 inspector, I sure did. And I addressed him as 'Mr.
h 8 6 Taylor.'
e 7 " Question: So does everyone.
3 " Answer: I guarantee it. But" --
d d 9 BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
p .
s 10 0 Thank you.
E 5 11 Mr. Atchison, during cross-examination by Mr.
ic j 12 Reynolds, you made reference to a conversation you stated s E J jm 13 you had with an NRC investigator, Mr. Donald Driskill.
l 14 Do you recall th a t?
5 2 15 A Which one?
E i
j 16 G Well, that's what I'm asking you. Do you re-us d 17 call the date that that conversation took place?
5
$ 18 A Which one?
=
g 19 G Well, you stated that you had a conversation n
20 with Mr. Driskill, in which he criticized -- you said that i
21 he criticized the competency of TUGCO personnel.
O 22 Now ee you reca11 __ It was 3use.a few 23 minutes ago.
24 JUDGE MILLER: He also testified to several 25 conversations. I think in fairness you need to find out i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
1 3407 5 j if he remembers, or else refresh his memory.
() 2 He has talked about two investigative reports 3
in the testimony a few minutes ago.
() 4 MS. ROTHSCHILD: All right. Now I'm talking e 5 about cross-examination by Mr. Reynolds.
b d 6 JUDGE MILLER: That wasn't --
Go ahead.
e 7 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Approximately ten minutes A
ago.
{ 8 d
d 9 THE WITNESS: This would refer to the last i
b 10 allegations I made to Mr. Driskill, approximately April E
5 11 13th and 14th.
j 12 JUDGE MILLER: Of what year?
() 13 THE WITNESS: 1982.
l$ 14 JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
2 15 He has identified the one, I think, Ms. Roths-5 g 16 child. What's your question?
W b$ 17 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Well, I'm not certain that i $
l 5 18 that's the same conversation to which you referred in cross-I P
[" 19 examination by Mr. Reynolds.
20 You stated --
2I JUDGE MILLER: Well, what does it matter?
22 Why don't you ask your question --
(])
r 23 ! MS. ROTHSCHILD: I'm trying to find out if he.
l 24 recalls the da te the conversation took place, whether any
(])
l 25 other persons were present, whether you made any notes and
, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
. . . 1
.: t; .
~
. .340s.,
,% s t, A 'e h/ N
- t > y 1
whether your testimony just now was based solely on your 5 - i n. s ., -
C 2 re llection of that conversation.
s 3 . ,} JUDGE MILLER: Well, let's find out now which 4 convehs'ation you ,want to ask him about,..
r ,
e 5 ', MS. ROTHSCHILD: His' personal conversatiori with h s .I '
d e 6 Mr., Driskill in which he -- . l'
< a-R \ i g y g 4 '
JUDGE MILLER: W;t s there more than one, Mr. i
- i i . .
g =
i! - 3,' j g 8 Atch1 son -- Was there more than-one-direct conversation 5
' ./ ' /
N i , ; t f
r) thad;byou had with Mr. Driskill$?f, ci 9 -
g '
0 10 THE WITNESS: Th'e one that -- (
c r. <
q z
~ \ r, ,
t
/
5 11 JUDGE MILLER: Was" the"rt more than one?
< < .t y i B fs' '
.. $ /-
c 12 v. THE WITNESS: Yes. -- .. )
/
z - .e s a 7i ,
)
%-) :d a 13 I, VJUD.GE MILLER: > ,
When was the first o a.-e y?.- s a,
E 14 ', THE WIS'.NE S S : I cannot give you an exact' ' .
w t:
4 4,
~
i 2 15 .
JUDGE ,)lfLLER: Approximately.. , ,
p/J/ P y g- '
) / .-
lh j 16 '\ THE t IT'4$SS : Approximately the
- us
, ~ ' '7, middh.of y \',
- O#
d 17 July. / / e 1 w j #. ' N
!:: r
.( '
i;j
{ 18 JUDGS MILLER: Of what year? ,
! P l [ 19 ,
[THEEITNESS:,,-1982. ,
c.-
l a
1
, e '-
! 20 JUDGE MILLER:1 That's the first one? This is I 21 July 198I.
,. i,y . . ,
r .- , ,
o-y n y /.
) 22 Tif Ef1dITNES S i We ll,\ eNeu,s e me . We'll#cpir^ect s ,
y- ..
~
~ u/ ,
< o r*
l 23}j that to say June. .' 'i y J t .
I s1 /
24 J'UDGE COLEY Wr , d id n t you have a conversatior.
O) q ;
j: r
.;\' < ,
25 i witih Mr. Driskill in l$80?
4
' \'
i / s -
- / -
su J
'j s si't h '
l' l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC. q l_ ;- m . 'I h a
340.9 5,-11 j THE WITNESS: Yes, I did.
) JUDGE MILLER: Well, that would have been the 2
3 first --
() 4 JUDGE COLE: Wouldn't that have been the e 5 first?
A
. N
$- 6 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. I thought we were e
7 talking about this last --
E 8 8 JUDGE MILLER: No, we're asking about the first in d
- , i 9 conversation, the first time you had a direct conversation i
$ 10 with Mr. Driskill, the gentleman seated back there.
E l
E 11 Go ahead.
d 12 THE WITNESS: The first conversation that I z
U
() j-*
['i 13 ever had with.him was in 1980.
O f 14 JUDGE MILLER: About what month did you ---
2 15 THE WITNESS: I'm going to say August, I 5
g' 16 believe, is the approximate date.
l ,
^
?
d 17 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Now when was the
- N g }.
18 next conversation of any kind that you had with Mr.
a; y 19 Driskill?
, lM[
20 THE WITNESS: This would be at one point, l
l l 21 probably September to somewhere in November of 1980,
() 22 during an on-site questioning and answering, that he con-
~
23 ;
i ducted his investigation on my allegations.
/ [% 24 '
'~.4 )
JUDGE MILLER: All right. When was the next 25 direct conversation that you had with Mr. Driskill, the
(
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
l
3410
- 5-12 y
investigator?
() 2 THE WITNESS: This would be the 13th or 14th 3 f April 1982.
() 4 JUDGE MILLER: Have you had any since then?
e 5 THE' WITNESS: Yes, I have.
h 8 6 JUDGE MILLER: What's the next one then?
o f7 a
THE WITNESS: This would be sometime in the 8
n 8 middle of June 1982.
d d 9 JUDGE MILLER: Is that the last one?
i C
$ 10 THE WITNESS: I've had one other that was E
j 3
11 within probably ten days of that, later in the month of j 12 June.
5 y 13 JUDGE MI L.LE R : What was the approximate date
(~J)
=
l l 14 then of your last direct conversation with Investigator l 2 15 Driskill?
l g 16 THE WITNESS: I can't be sure of the dates.
W d 17 We'll say the last of June.
E '
{ 18 JUDGE MILLER: Very well. Now does that cover
! P
! E 19 it?
A 20 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
21 JUDGE MILLER: All right.
() 22 Now you can pick out any or all of the con-23 versations that you want, and ask whatever questions you l
1 l
24 wish.
25 l j 1
I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
l l _ _. ,. --
3411 3-13 y ; BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
() 2 G In Previous cross-examination regarding Page 3 3
f y ur supplemental testimony, your answer -- your first
() 4 full answer in cross-examination by Mr. Reynolds about that e 5 matter, I believe you stated that you had a conversation M
N se 6 with Mr. Driskill, in which you state he criticized the R
$ 7 competency of TUGCO personnel.
s 8 8 Could you connect that to which one of those N
, d d 9 conversations? Do you recall making that statement to i
o
! G 10 Mr. Reynolds?
3 5 11 A I believe I do.
B j 12 This would be to the last set of allegations
(]) 5j 13 that was filed on April 13 or 14, 1982.
=
j 14 - - -
2 15 5
j 16 i
l t' 17 I
$ 18 5
a 19 5 -
20 21 l I) 23 l
{} 24 25 '
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3412 6-1 1 A This was a telephone conversation in which I O~ 2 had contacted Steve. He had completed his report, and if 3 I could obtain a copy of his report on the investigation of eg
'- 4 the allegations which I had made on April 13th and 14th, o 5 1982.
h
@ 6 G Do you recall the approximate date of that R
$ 7 telephone conversation?
A Q 8 A No, I do not.
O d 9 G And you are stating it was in that conversation i
0 y 10 that Mr. Driskill made the statements you attributed to 3
11 him?
3 11 A This was in the realm of the conversation, yes.
=
O3g
- 13 G During that telephone conversation?
l l 14 A Yes, to the best of my ability that's correct.
15
{z G I see. Well, were there any other parsons g 16 present when you made the phone call?
l 'A I7 JUDGE MILLER: Whether he knows -- a wire tap h
5 18 or something, we're inquiring into?
3 P
I9 MS. ROTHSCHILD: No. I'm just asking did he --
1 h
M 20 were there people --
I Well, what about Mr. Driskill's
. JUDGE MILLER:
end of the line? Are you making any representations about
, that or --
I)
N>
24 MS. ROTHSCHILD: No.
I 1 l
! JUDGE MILLER: -- recording of the conversation?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3413I 6-2 1 MS. ROTHSCHILD: No, I'm not.
O 2 JUDGE MILLER: All right.
3 So far as you know, from your end of the line, O 4 was anyone else present or on the line?
g 5 THE WITNESS: Unless my phone was tapped, no, O
@ 6 there was not.
M S 7 JUDGE MILLER: So far as you know, was there n
[ 8 anyone with Mr. Driskill, or were there any recording d
d 9 devices on his end of the line?
i C
$ 10 THE WITNESS: There was not that I'm aware of.
$ 11 JUDGE MILLER: Proceed.
B 12 BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
=
w 13 g Mr. Atchison, did you make any notes of that a
I4 conversation?
h 15 A No.
]r m
E I0 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Okay. Thank you.
l
\ 'A d 17 JUDGE MILLER: Is that all?
5 IO MS. ROTHSCHILD: That's all the cross I have.
C 6
I9 JUDGE MILLER: Thank you.
8 20 Is there any redirect, Ms. Ellis?
I MS. ELLIS: Yes, sir.
JUDGE MILLER: Proceed.
23 ; REDIRECT EXAMINATION l
24 BY MS. ELLIS:
25 [ G Mr. Atchison, I believe it was on Page 23 of ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3414 6-3 j your primary testimony, CASE Exhibit 650 --
() 2 A Excuse me. What page?
3 G Page 23. I believe when Mr. Reynolds was
(' cross-examining you he was talking about the over-(_) 4 e 5 inspecting.
N 8 6 Did you believe that you were over-inspecting?
e R
$ 7 A No.
E j 8 G Do you believe now that you were over-inspecting?
d d 9 A No.
i e
g 10 G On Page 2 8 o f your testimony, about halfway E
l a
11 down the page, you state, "I know the people that were the j 12 Level 3's that set up the training program and helped 5
(_)j=
im 13 initiate the program," and so forth.
m
$ 14 JUDGE MILLER: Ms. Ellis, I'm going to make you 5
g 15 look at me if you don't keep your voice up.
x g 16 MS. ELLIS: I'm sorry. I think my microphone e
d 17 is dropped today.
E 5 18 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. Hoist it up.
=
- I9 g MS. ELLIS: All right. Now, is that better?
e 20 JUDGE MILLER: Yes, that's better. Thank you.
2I MS. ELLIS: All right.
22 BY MS. ELLIS:
/~')
(,
23 ; G Did you help with any training, yourself, when (
24
(') you were employed there?
25 ! A Yes, I did.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3415 6-4 i G What kind of training was that?
2 A This would be training of the DT liquid 4
3 penetrant magnetic particle 6.9, or CPM 6.9 construction 4 procedure class, as well as those that were implemented e 5 to train the inspectors on the jobsite.
A n
d 6 g All right. So you were helping to train some e
R g 7 of the inspectors yourself, is that correct?
E j 8 A This is correct.
d d 9 G All right. And you were authorized to do that?
7:
o g 10 A Yes, I was.
E l
3 11 g All right. On Page 35 of your testimony, j 12 Mr. Atchison, a little past halfway down, you were asked E
- p)
( y 13 a question, "You mean the ASME team found sufficient
=
h 1-4 deficiencies to reject ASME certification for construction 2 15 of the nuclear power plant which Brown & Root had formerly w
! =
j 16 held?"
W p 17 l JUDGE MILLER: Now you're going too fast, E I M 18 Ms. Ellis.
=
g I9 MS. ELLIS: I beg your pardon?
, 5 1
20 JUDGE MILLER: The reporter has to get this.
l 2I MS. ELLIS: I'm sorry.
("i 22 (s/ JUDGE MILLER: Slow it down. The Board is in 23 : agreement.
24
({} MS. ELLIS: It looks like we're determined to 25 give you a hard time.
r ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3416 6-5 1 THE WITNESS: You're catching it from me.
(u- 2 JUDGE MILLER: Hold it up, now; we've got 3 enough.
(~Y Proceed.
s/ 4
= 5 MS. ELLIS: All right.
@ 6 BY MS. ELLIS:
R
$ 7 g You stated, in answer to that question, "Yes, s
j 8 ASME decided that Brown & Root's N stamps and certifications d
q 9 would be allowed to expire as of January 8th, 1982."
z e
g 10 When you were asked about this -- I don't E
$ 11 recall the exact question, but you were asked something S
I2 along the line of, weren't they allowed to expire, and I N_
/' 3
\-) 5a 13 think you started to say_something about the survey team's m
$ 14 leaving, or something. I'm not sure. I don't recall the g 15 exact conversation. Did you finish what you wanted to say x
j 16 at that time?
M I7 MR. REYNOLDS: Objection, Mr. Chairman. She's h
=
$ 18 leading the witness, e
19 8 JUDGE MILLER: Well, she may be, n
20 Go ahead.
21 MS. ELLIS: I just wanted to be sure that --
I '
22 k >D JUDGE MILLER: Well, on redirect she is 23 I entitled to direct attention, but don't lead too much.
i I')
[
k/ 24lI!
But_you may direct attention to what was said and ask for i 25 !
! ! whatever explanation you wish on redirect.
i !
l l l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
l r
3417 6-6 ) MS. ELLIS: I just wanted to be sure he had 01
(> finished everything he wanted to say at that time. I 2
3 wasn't positive.
, A)
(_ 4 JUDGE MILLER: All right.
g 5 Had you completed your answer? If so, say yes.
i 9
$ 6 If not, say no, and you may now be permitted to complete it ,
R S 7 THE WITNESS: No.
A y 8 BY MS. ELLIS:
d l d 9 G All right. Would you tell us what you were i
c g 10 going to say, then?
E j 11 A. The survey team felt that there was insufficien t 3
g 12 correlation between the quality assurance manual and the E
()y 13 site procedures. After, I believe it was approximately
=
m 5 I4 two and a half days on the jobsite conducting the survey 1
5
{= 15 for re-issuance of the N stamps, they were scheduled for j 16 another day and a half on the jobsite because of the noted w
d' I7 deficiencies that they had found at that time. In their 5
{ 18 exit meeting they decided that they would leave at that P
19 point, which left Brown & Root to -- they could file an g
n 20 appeal and a motion on it, or ask for a resurvey of the 21 QA manual.
(} 22 g I see. So they didn't stay the full time that 23 :
they were supposed to stay?
24 No, they did not.
(',N) A 25 g Thank you.
All right.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3418 6-7 j Mr. Atchison, in your supplemental testimony, (J',
% n Page 7, towards the bottom of the page, you were asked 2
3 about certain photographs that were taken.
O\/ Do you know what happened to those photographs?
4 e 5 A This is the supplement?
3 3 6 0 I guess.
e
% I think that's the photograph 7 JUDGE MILLER:
R_
n" j 8 that you took out of there, or was give to you from d
d 9 someone else's desk upon his leaving.
i o Yes.
@ 10 THE WITNESS:
1 Do you have that?
g 11 JUDGE MILLER:
3
- j. 12 THE WITNESS: Yes,.I do,
- =
p(J 13 JUDGE MILLER: With you?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do.
h 2 15 JUDGE MILLER: Let's have it.
E y 16 Do you want to mark that as one of your w
d 17 exhibits?
N 5 18 MS. ELLIS: Yes. Let's see, that would be 5
h I9 CASE e xhib it --
E 20 JUDGE MILLER: There's a group of exhibits.
2I Give it a number and then we'll use A, B and C to
() 22 identify them.
23 i MS. ELLIS: I believe it will be 665.
() 24 JUDGE MILLER: What's the number, 665? Is 25 l that correct?
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3419 6-8 1 MS. ELLIS: Yes, sir.
O
\/ 2 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Then we'll have 3 them marked 665-A, B, C and D, as soon as we've shown them
(} 4 to counsel.
e 5 Hold it a minute.
A n
@ 6 (Discussion off the record.)
R ,
$ 7 JUDGE MILLER: Have the record show that the s
j 8 four photographs in question are being displayed to counsel d
9 for Applicants and for the Staff.
c[
z c
g 10 MS. ELLIS: We ask that they be admitted into.
11 evidence.
3 12 JUDGE MILLER: Well, wait; you're going to N
E (m_) y 13 get ahead of yourself.
=
m g 14 MS..ELLIS: If it would be helpful, we could 15
{- try to make copies on our copy machine. Sometimes we-can j
- I6 do that with photographs, if anyone would like.
-A I7 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. All right.
h 1 5 IO 3 (The documents referred to C
s I9 2 were marked CASE Exhibits 665-A 5
20 through 665-D for identifi-2I cation.)
22
} JUDGE MILLER: They have been makred now 665-A, 3' B, C and D.
() Now, if you want to have the witness --
25 i Pardon me. Off the record.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3420 6-9 ) (Discussion off the record.)
()~
\ 2 JUDGE MILLER: The photographs marked 665-A, 3 B, C and D may be shown now to the witness and he may be 4 asked to identify them, or whatever questions you wish to e 5 ask concerning them.
-2n d 6 BY MS. ELLIS:
o R
$ 7 G Can you identify these photographs for us, s
n 8 8 Mr. Atchison?
d d 9 A These are the photographs that were found in i
o g 10 the former quality assurance manager's desk or possession 3
{ 11 after he had been terminated.
3 j 12 G That was Mr. Hawkins?
< c\>ms g 13 A Mr. Hawkins.
x h 14 G Okay. And in regard to those photographs, 2 15 sir, what led you to think they might have been of the Y ,
.j 16 Unit 1 containment, or the reactor building?
w 17 ! A This is where, I would say, at that particular
=
{ 18 instance, the majority of work was going on.
! P
[
M 19 G I see. And that is why you thought they were 20 of that particular area?
21 A Yes. I have no way of actually substantiating
) 22 the specific location of it.
l 23 I see. All right. The photographs that were G
l
() 24 in his desk were not identified in any other manner, other 25 , than what you have there, just the photographs; is that l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3421 6-10 j correct?
A They were not. As a matter of fact, I found 2
3 them inside a magazine.
4 g I see. So there was nothing to identify them e 5 as being part of any site document?
M N
8 6 A No.
e R
{ 7 MR. ELLIS: All right.
M 8 8 We move that these photographs be admitted into d
d 9 evidence.
I c
y 10 JUDGE MILLER: Any objection?
3 11 MR. REYNOLDS: Yes, sir.
h 3
y 12 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Yes, we object, too.
13 JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
=
h 14 MR. REYNOLDS: We don't see the --
2 15 JUDGE MILLER: We'll await the opportunity for 5
j 16 cross-examination on these photographs.
M d 17 MR. REYNOLDS: I'm sorry, sir?
5
{ 18 JUDGE MILLER: We'll await fuling -- we'll 9
o 19 defer ruling upon the offer into evidence of the photo-g n
20 graphs, there being objections, to give counsel a chance 2I to ask whatever questions they wish or make whatever --
/3
(~/ 22 MR. REYNOLDS: On recross?
23 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
) 24 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, we have no real feel 25 for getting these into evidence. We'll withdraw our motion .
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
l 3422 6-11 j JUDGE MILLER: Well, don't withdraw it because
() 2 the Board's going to keep them. We're going to find out 3 what they are. We're not going to have things dangling
() 4 and then appear and disappear, or whatever.
e 5 MS. ELLIS: All right. Thank you.
E N
i N 6 BY MS. ELLIS:
o R
$ 7 %- Mr. Atchison, I believe that you testfied A
j 8 that there were two investigations which were triggered by d
- d 9 your going to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, is that
- i 1' o y 10 correct?
g 11 A That is correct.
B j g 12 g All right. In the first investigation, when
() =
13 you talked with Mr. Driskill, did you ask that your name
$ 14 remain confidential?
2 15 A Yes, I did.
.' 5 l j 16 'O Did you ever tell the NRC that you wanted to A
h^ 17 waive that request for confidentiality?
5
{ 18 A on the first investigation?
?
{5 19 , G Yes.
20 A I did not.
21 Q. All right. On the second investigation did
() 22 you ask for confidentiality?
23 A. Yes, I did.
24 g Did you --
(])
25 : A No. Excuse me. I did not.
i l
ll ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3423 6-12 i G On the second one?
U 2 L On the second one I did not.
G On the second one you did not. On the first one 3
O 4 you did, but the second one you did not?
e 5 A The first one, I did; the second one, I did not ,
U N 6, G All right. So you never asked for confiden-e
- I
!,! 7 tiality to begin with on the second one?
N 8 8 A I did not.
n d
d 9 G But you did on the first and never waived that?
c 10 A That's correct. Mr. Driskill had asked me if G
=
j ' 11 I had wanted confidentiality, and I expressed to him that k
6 12 I had been terminated from the jobsite and there was no y 13 reason for it.
=
l$ 14 G That was on the second one?
j 15 A This was on the second one.
= .
g 16 G All right. Thank you.
W d' 17 Did you ask for follow-up information.regarding s
5 18 the investigations which were made as a result of your
=
5 g I9 coming forward to the NRC?
5 1 20 A I had asked Mr. Driskill if he could provide me 1
21 with a copy of his report that I might use in the Department
(~')
' '> 22 of Labor hearing that is scheduled for next month.
i 23 , G All right. And was that provided?
fs
- 24 A I have not received it from Mr. Driskill at 25 this time.
[
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
i i 3424 ll
)
6--13 i G All right. Have you since been provided j v 2 copies of those? i
, 3 A Yes, I have.
I - 4 G Where did you get those? .
I <
e 5 A From CASE. .
A 1
i- 3
- 6 ///
i
- 57 E 7 i.
! n
- 8 a
8 ,
l
! e , ,
I, d 9 ,
l 3.
s 10 m
-j 11 s
d 12 E
, O y= 13 ,
c m
i
- a 14 l $ '
2 15
- \
J s
16 u1 6
.a 17 l f 5
m 18 ,
=
H
, 19 M
20 21 ;
O- 22 23 ,
O 24 i 25 'j i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
4 3425 i 7-1 bm j MS. ELLIS: I believe we have no further O
\J 2 questions. '
JUDGE MI LLE R : Counsel for Applicants, I 3
4 believe, had questions concerning the photographs.
{" )
e 5 MR. REYNOLDS: Well, sir, it sounds as though A
6 y u have already ruled.
o g 7 JUDGE MILLER: I haven't already ruled, but 8 I had indicated that we would mark them as Board exhibits, d
d 9 if Ms. Ellis didn't wish to maintain the markings she had, i
h 10 yes. I did not rule on admissibility, no, but we're E
5 11 certainly inclined to have the record complete.
s d 12 But there may well be areas that you wish to E
=
(' d 13 bring out.
( E h 14 MR. REYNOLDS: Well, it just seemed to me that E
2 15 there's absolutely no foundation laid here that these photo-E g 16 graphs are even of this plant. It could be of Mr. Hawkins' w
d 17 basement for all we know.
E
$ 18 And to ask the Applicants or anyone else in 5
h 19 this proceeding to identify them, it's going to be very n
20 difficult for us to do so, I'm sure. But we, of course, 21 will try to do so if the Board wishes.
22 Well, I would indicate that
{) JUDGE MILLER:
23 ; it was similar to areas that he had seen frequently was i
24 his testimony.
25 Now, admittedly, that's not a very powerful i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
342S
'7-2 foundation. But on the other hand, it doesn't seem to be
)
() 2 something that's being dragged in by the ears either.
3 S I take it that the Staff -- that you have
() 4 at your disposal, if you have any question about, (a), the e 5 way in which those photographs got into possession and, M
N
$ 6 (b), what they show or purport to show, you'll have a e
7 chance on rebuttal, of course.
A 8 8 MR. REYNOLDS: Certainly.
N d
d 9l^
JUDGE MILLER: And Staff's objections?
7:
h 10 I understood you said you wanted to object.
E 5 11 MR. TREVY: The Staff objects to the admission W
d 12 of these photographs on the grounds that they've not been authenticated by this witness. He indicated that he hasn't f's) Eg s
13 j 14 personally taken them. He found them in somebody else's 2 15 belongings, but he has no knowledge of whether they are or g 16 aren't of this plant, w
d 17 They weren't in any special records of the
$ 18 plant or anything else.
5
{ 19 We just -- as the Applicant has pointed l
i 20 out, there's no foundation laid here that these are in 21 any way photographs relating to this facility, and so we f] 22 don't believe that they are proper items to be admitted v
23 into evidence.
24 And, of course, the Staff has no objection if
(]) .
l 25 the Board wishes to have the photographs marked for i
j h ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3427 1
7-3 j identification, so that when the transcript is being re-viewed at a later date, everyone knows what photographs
(]) 2 3 people were talking about.
() 4 So we think it's entirely appropriate for the e 5 Board to mark those photographs for identification, but we A
n se 6 don't think it is appropriate for them to be received R
g 7 into evidence.
E i j 8 JUDGE MILLER: The objection will be over-d d 9 ruled.
i C
g 10 The direct sworn testimony at Page 7 at the 3
j s
11 bottom does have some identification of the source of the j 12 documents; namely -- the photographs -- namely, being those 5
y that Jim Hawkins' secretary, going into Mr. Hawkins'
(']
~ x 13 l$ 14 office after he was fired, and finding a number of docu-2 15 ments that she didn't know what to do with, what was trash l g 16 or junk or what to keep, in cleaning up the office, going w
d 17 through, found these photographs which are purported
{ 18 to be from Reactor Building 1 -- the concrete void in E
19 Reactor 1 main building interior showing a 14- to 18-g n
20 inch deep, four or five foot long concrete void that had 2I bad concrete in it, and so forth.
r- g 22 Now whatever the photographs show or doesn't
%)
23 l show, you can look into. But that is a sufficient pre-24 liminary identification. We haven't had a great deal of 25 authentication of many things in this case. It's no ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
e 3428 7-4 worse than much.
I m It will be admitted --- They will be admitted.
r) i s 2 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, it has just been 3
called to my attention that I left out two questions.
JUDGE MILLER: Go ahead.
o 5 A
" MS. ELLIS: Thank you.
3 e
6
{ BY MS. ELLIS:
" l 5 4 Mr. Atchison, when you made your statement to 8
N 8
3 the NRC inspector, the first one back in 1980, did he at
- 9 i
o that time take a statement from you?
e z
E A Yes, he did.
p 11 a
G Did you request a copy of that statement?
d 12 3
S A No, I didn't.
([) ; '3 G All right. In your statement -- your coming E I-4 s
f rward in 1982 to the NRC inspector, did you make a state-
! 15 T 16 ment at that time?
B A
g j7 A Yes, I did.
w h 18 G Did you ask for a copy of that statement?
! =
A Yes, I did.
h 19 A
20 G Do you have that with you?
21 A Yes, I do.
22 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, we'd like to give (q/
! 23 , copies to everyone of an item which has been marked CASE 24 Exhibit 663.
(g/
,f-25 ' /
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3423 7-5 3 (The document above-referred to
() 2 was marked as CASE Exhibit No.
3 663 for identification.)
() 4 BY MS. ELLIS:
e 5 G Is this a copy of that document?
E N
8 6 A Yes, it is.
e 7 G All right. When you signed this document, did M
8 u
8 you also initial the pages of it?
d d 9 A No, I did not.
i o
G 10 G All right. One other question, Mr. Atchison.
3 E
< 11 The Staff's -- I believe what has been marked as Staff 3
j 12 Exhibit No. 200, your deposition -- Do you still have E
13 that before you?
(w~/)a$
h 14 A Yes.
2 15 G All right. Would you turn to Page 21 --
E j 16 MR. REYNOLDS: Mr. Chairman, we don't have_a M-d 17 copy of that do c ume n t'.
E
{ 18 JUDGE MILLER: Oh, do we have your copy?
P 19 MR. REYNOLDS: Yes.
h 5
20 JUDGE MILLER: All right. We'll give it back 2I to you.
22 JUDGE COLE: Ms. Ellis, what line are you
(])
23 going to be reading?
24 O
v MS. ELLIS: I believe it starts with Line 7.
25 I have a copy of those pages here -- those ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.'
3430 J7-6 3 particular pages.
l 2 Mr. Chairman, I'm not really clear. Is Staff 3 Exhibit 200 to be admitted into evidence?
4 JUDGE MILLER: Is what now?
j e 5 MS. ELLIS: The deposition of Mr. Atchison.
A N
3 6 Is that going to be admitted into evidence? Has that i
e N
8 7 been requested?
9 s
j 8 JUDGE MILLER: Well, have you requested it?
a d 9 MS. ELLIS: No.
i o - - -
g io a
11
. 5 a
d 12 3
b U g 13 m
E 14 a
2 15 s
g 16 us j p 17 l
5 5 18
=
$ 19 g
M 20 21
!O 22 I
' \
23 3 I
O 24 j
- 25 I l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3431
- 7-7 j JUDGE MILLER
- Well --
( ,) 2 MS. ELLIS: We had wanted to mark for identi-3 fication this one item from it, as CASE Exhibit 664.
() 4 JUDGE MILLER: What is CASE Exhibit 664?
e 5 MS. ELLIS: This is Pages 21 and 22 from the 3
N d 6 deposition.
i e R
8- 7 JUDGE MILLER: Fron; what deposition?
N 8 8 MS. ELLIS: From Mr. Atchison's deposition n
d c 9 which has been marked for identification as Staff Exhibit i
O
$ 10 200.
a 5 11 JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
j 12 Staff, I don't believe h'as offered, but I s
13 may be wrong -- Have you offered that deposition into
(])
- E 14 evidence?
i N
=
l 2 15 MS. ROTHSCHILD: No, we haven't.
5 g 16 JUDGE MILLER: It has not been offered. You M
! d 17 are offering two pages from that deposition, Pages 21 and E
u w
18 22, which you have marked CASE Exhibit 664; is that i P 5 19 correct?
A 20 MS. ELLIS: Yes, sir.
21 (The document above-referred to I
22 was marked as CASE Exhibit No.
(}
23f 664 for identification.)
/"% 24 JUDGE MILLER: Now are those the only portions V
25 of that deposition that you wish to have marked or brought ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
l
^
3432 l7-8 y to the Board's attention?
2 You have a right, when a portion of a depositior 3 is gor.e into, you have a right to designate either some or all remaining portions so that it can be in context.
{) 4 e 5 MS. ELLIS: All right.
E j N o
6 JUDGE MILLER: That is your right, which you R
8 7 may exercise or not.
l s
8 n 8 MS. ELLIS: Yes.
d d 9 JUDGE MILLER: What is your pleasure?
-i o
g 10 MS. ELLIS: All right. Mr. Atchison --
3 j
B 11 JUDGE MILLER: Now wait a minute. Answer me.
j 12 What do you want to do?
5 13 MS. ELLIS: All right. I'd like to have these h 14 two pages admitted into evidence.
2 15 JUDGE COLE: And only these two pages?
g 16 MS. ELLIS: And only those two pages, yes.
M
, p 17 JUDGE MILLER: All right. In that event, CASE 18 Exhibit 664, consisting of Pages 21 and 22 from Mr.
h E
19 Atchison's prior deposition, portions of which he was l g t e 20 interrogated about by counsel for the Staff are being 2I offered into evidence by CASE.
I 22 Are there any objections?
l l 23 l MR. REYNOLDS: Well, sir, it's not clear that 24 the information on these two pages relates to matters in g-)g 25 the deposition that were went into previously.
- i i l l l I l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3433
!7-9 JUDGE MILLER: It's not clear. Do you object I
<s or not?
( 2 MR. REYNOLDS: Well --
3 JUDGE MILLER: That's a yes or no now, like y u always like to say.
5 O MR. REYNOLDS: Right. Well, yes and no.
@ 6
, d (Laughter.)
i e 7 JUDGE MILLER: You're conforming to our norm, 8
j 9 and the entire deposition will be admitted, and we'll i
10 sort out who shot John later.
e z
j gj The entire deposition will be admitted, which d 12 will include CASE Exhibit 664, Pages 21 and 22.
.g $ 13 (The documents heretofore marked
\-) S E 14 as Staff Exhibit No. 200 and w
H
! 15 CASE Exhibit No. 664 for identi-u
~
16 fication were received in B
W g 17 evidence.)
5 5 18 BY MS. ELLIS:
=
19 G Mr. Atchison, was the testimony from your i 8 n
20 deposition picked up verbatim, other than for some de-21 letions of irrelevant portions where -- was the substantive 22 part of your deposition picked up in your testimony? Was S
~, )
23 , it repeated, in other words, in your sworn testimony?
, , 24 A Yes.
! I w
25 ; G All right, sir.
I I
I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3434 l7-10 j In your deposition beginning on Page 21, 2 Line 7, would you begin reading there and read down
())}
3 through Page 22, Line 8.
4 JUDGE MILLER: Now, Mr. Atchison, remember our
~}
e 5 agreement. You look at us, read slow, watch your statement A
N d 6 and enunciate every word. Okay?
m R
g7 THE WITNESS: I shall try.
A l 8 JUDGE MILLER: Go ahead.
d d 9 THE WITNESS: Beginning at Line 7?
i o
$ 10 JUDGE MILLER: Line 7. " Question: Did you E
$ 11 provide," and so forth. Is that it, Ms. Ellis?
k d 12 MS. ELLIS: Yes, sir.
i 3
=
(~T N. s j 13 JUDGE MILLER: Okay, start-there.
m
$ 14 THE WITNESS: "Did you provide them with your 2 15 background as you just have provided us with your j 16 background?
w g 17 " Answer: Yes, with a resume that's been pre-18 pared at the Bell Operations Corporation.
A
{5 19 " Question: Was it as you have stated it 20 today?
21 " Answer: Well, no, there was a misconception 22 on there that showed that I had a Liberal Arts
())
23 degree; wherein the degree had never been granted
)
24 and never been obtained.
25
" Question: Do you think it was a material part
.: ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3435
' 7-11 j of your employment that you had that degree?
No.
(]) 2
" Answer:
3 "You don't think it would have made a difference
() 4' had they known you did not have a degree?
e 5 "No."
E N
A 6 JUDGE MILLER: Now wait a minute. You've
, e l R g 7 stopped giving O's and A's.
M 8 THE WITNESS: Sorry.
d d 9 JUDGE MILLER: Go ahead.
i o Question, Line 21: "You
$ 10 THE WITNESS:
3 5 11 think they would have hired you anyway?
3 d 12 " Answer: Yes.
3
=
(]), 13 "On what basis do you --
l i
l$ 14 " Answer: I was hired in as a trainee to do 2 15 documentation review.
w z -
j 16 " Question: 'And trainees don't require degrees, e
p 17 )'
is that your point? ..
l 4
5 18 " Answer: No. The job at that time did not 5 1 h
19 require anyone with a degree; that may have been n
20 advantageous background and previous e xp e rie n c e~ .
2I " Question: But there was a misrepresentation 22 I
{} or. your --
- 23 j " Answer
- Yes.
l 24 " Question: -- resume."
l q\s 25 MS. ELLIS: Thank you.
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
ss .s .
~
J' .
3436 j r' /' D.I _
7-12 BY MS. ELLIS. v 1
1 4 '
, <n
{, /
O 2 'c' so :"r- ^tcat oal ae.a.vou werd xea tu vour
~
1 + ,
3 deposition regarding your employment a'id -- rathkr y~ur o ;
i
. \ e-O 4 educe'l a 1 d>cx9r uaa v u 4 ia- sti te' he=1r u were "di:ea - '
q a. /,
o 5 under ' oat;h tiha t there had tbeen~ S differoncejin' whatL.vas -
g ,
l .in 6 shown and what the,true s. ,.
facts,were; is that correct?
~
,\
Q r f
! p (( .
8 7 A. T.Ya t' ic correct. '
- " a
[ , . . .
3 _
j 8 G' All right. .Onele,mo~peyquestion, Mr. Atchison...
/ 'i..T d
=i 9 -
Wha't does whether or not you had.a Liberal f t * \
7: ,
i
') ,-
h 10 Arts degroe have to do with jhe quality assurance program 3, ,
11 ) 'at Comanche Peak? ,I
- l '
U.c!
- g i /
')
'J 12 A. None wh at /# '
soever. / ' t ;' :s$
.j 3
m , / c, 13 $
MS. ELLIS: Thank.hou I have# no further'# ,
'6 lx 9
14 questions.' .
i .;
r' i
,j 1
j 2 15 ,
JUDGE MILLE 3': Anything f n'r ttle r' ? , , ,
,y '
' ,/ ,-
cp /
+
]
g 16 / MR. REYNOilDS :'- Y,ds , sir. ,
~ ,
d ,
f . .
' ~
i ti 17 RECROSS-EXAMINATION w ,
/
e x ,
b 16 BY MR. REYNOLDS: e .b ,
= .; , ;
19 /; g 'f Mr . A t c h i,s o n,, you jud [re 7yc ur c [ position 06 n .
,.- .- , ,r 20 i ' P a ge 21, and you state d'n Lines / 9 a$d$10Jthat'yes7,you~ - ,
, ,/ ~
21 provided your b.ickg-cunt w$th/a re s ume., th a t 5:-h' d h e'e n t ( l f 22 prepared at or by#thi.7, Bell perations Corporatinn,.
23 A. That l',
i .
correct;
~
'i ( " (
E >
- ; ; i ,. .
. . ", ~
24 ' g ' ' Are y ju
, sugges ting ,' si r , thati 'otty.we y r' e not
,, -g 25 fi'rsupansibleJ for tie informat'ionecontained in your applicatibn:
s y,
- '. ' l l
s, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
e
- . - _](e. - , . - -
i
-. i "
m / :.. f
.!\, e i
i , 3437 '
7-13/ y to Brown & Root?
O- 2 no, 1 em aot-i 3 G I see.
4 Let me invite your attention to Page --
i e 5 to Applicant's Exhibit 132, which is your Brown & Root 6
8 6 application. Do you have that document?
o E 7 A. Yes.
8 The one we discussed yesterday?
r) e 9 0 Yes, tha t's correct.
??
@ 10 Is that document typed or handwritten?
j l
is 11 A. That is handwritten.
d 12 0 By whom, sir?
E p
A V g 3 13 A. Myself.
m l
E 14 0 I see.
2 15 A As stated yesterday.
5 g 16 0 So it was you, and not Bell Operations Corpora-w
,- 6 17 tion, who claimed that you had a degree in Liberal Arts?
\ g M 18 A That is cortect.
C g 19 G Sir, to your knowledge, how long do ASME n
20 surveys normally las t?
21 A The ones that I have been involved in normally O 22 censume aheue 4 1,2 er s days.
23 G And how many ASME surveys have you participated 24 in?
25 A. Two.
./ ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
1 3438 '
j7-14 y G What were they?
() 2 A This will be the ASME survey, October of 1981 3 at Comanche Peak, and I participated on an outside basis
() 4 on the survey in January of 1982.
e 5 G So then the October 1981 ASME survey was the 3
N A 6 first survey that you had ever participated in?
e R
g 7 A This is correct.
A l 8 G And what was your participation in that?
d d 9 A I was one of the escorts for one of the ASME i
C
$ 10 teams, to escort them on the site to areas and locations, z
1 =
1 g 11 or the documentation or people that they desired for that s
j 12 particular team to look at.
( ) y.5 13 G Sir, did you participate substantively in the
! 14 survey, or were you just a guide?
2 15 A Both.
, E i j 16 G What did you do substantively?
i d
N 17 A I had to produce in some cases --
show them E
18 the training records, the foundation for the training h
P 19 records, the files themselves, exterior training records 20 that did not relate directly to NDE, to guide them through 21 and assist them in a vendor audit program, into the
, () 22 document control center.
23 i Also I escorted -- guided them into the docu-() 24 ment review group, back into the exit interview.
25 Would you agree that this is basically a i G
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
343" 7-15 j clerical function? , ,
2 A. Yes and no.
3 JUDGE MILLER: See what you started, f (Laugh te r. )
Q 4 e 5 h !
3
- 6 .
r E t t
8- 7 2 8 re d
6 9
- s i C
10 l z
1
~ -
n 11 !
W d 12 i5 i i
=J E 14 [
w 2 15 w
2:
i.
.' 16 8 l us 6 17 x
2:
$ 18
=
H 19 !
8 n
l 20 ,
t i 1
21 ;
t t
O~ '
i 23 !; ;
- 24 O ,
! 25 l l l l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC. I f
3440
-l 1 MR. REYNOLDS: I'll take 50 percent.
2 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
sd( }
3 G Sir, did either the ASME survey in October or 4 the resurvey in January last four-and-a-half or five
(])
e .5 days?
3 e
] 6 A Four days, I believe, is the one that lasted R
$ 7 in January.
A j 8 G Are you certain of that?
d
=; 9 A They carte in and spent one day reviewing the 10 quality control manual and procedures, and then come in h
=
II
$ on the job site, and I believe they exited Wednesday night
's y 12 or Thursday morning.
5 g" I3 G What was your involvement in that resurvey?
)
l$ 14 A I had been called in back from the field 15 inspection, back in to help the NDE Level 3's rearrange j
. 16 w
and put the training coordination files in correct order.
F 17 d I was back in the field and I was called back a
$ 18
_ in to locate some additional information the survey team 19 g wanted from those files, which I did, to alleviate some 20 of the concerns that the ASME team had come across.
21 0 That who had come across?
22 A ASME survey team.
)
23 l MR. REYNOLDS: Could we have a second?
24 s JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
25
! MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, something just f
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3441
-2 1 occurred to me that might be~ helpful to all parties.
() 2 There's been a lot of discussion back and forth about who 3 Individuals A, B, C, D and so forth --
() 4 JUDGE MILLER: I intend to ask some of those e 5 questions, h
j 6 MS. ELLIS: All right.
R b 7 MR. REYNOLDS: No further questions.
E j 8, JUDGE MILLER: Staff?
d c; 9 MS. ROTHSCHILD: We have no further questions.
h0
=
JUDGE MILLER: Mr. Driskill --
!3 I JUDGE McCOLLOM: Mr. Atchison.
d 12
@ JUDGE MILLER: I'm going to ask you about
(' h 13
(-) @ Mr. Driskill, but you are Mr. Atchison.
E 14 y BOARD EXAMINATION z
g is BY JUDGE MILLER:
z 16 y G Get before you now, although you needn't be G 17 a
x looking into them, CASE Exhibit 663, which purports to M 18
= be your statement given to Mr. Driskill on April the 14th, s
[ 19 2 1982.
20 A Correct.
21 O Look, also, at Board Exhibit SA, which is 22
\ apparently the Staff-supplied version of that same 23 document with a number of black marks covering up various
() 25 l portions.
A Correct.
. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3442
-3 i G Look also, or have before you Mr. Driskill's
() 2 official investigative report, which has been marked 3 Staff Exhibit 199. Do you have that?
(]) 4 A 199?
e 5 0 Yes. That report concerns an investigation h
j 6 conducted allegedly by Mr. Driskill, April 13th and 14th, C
$ 7 26th, 28th, 30th, and May 10, 1982.
E j 8 A I don't believe I have a copy of that.
d d 9 G All right.
y 10 JUDGE MILLER: Ms. Ellis, could you loan him E
j 11 a copy?
k j 12 We'll get you a copy of Staff Exhibit 199.
5 13
(]) We'll get you a copy in a moment.
l$ 14 This is the Board's copy of Exhibit 199. We'll 15 ask you to return it to us when we're through.
y 16 THE WITNESS: Okay.
w f
x 17 BY JUDGE MILLER:
II G All right. Do you have those exhibits before g I9 you now, Mr. Atchison?
n 0
A Yes, I do.
I G All right. What I am going to ask you relates both to your copy of your statement, CASE Exhibit 663 as
(])
23 it relates to Board Exhibit 5A, which is the Staff's 24 document with the marks.
(]) ,
25 ! '
To save time, I'm going to read a list of
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
I
3443
-4 1 individuals and ask if you can identify them briefly for
- 2. the Jecord, especially in their relationship to you in this
(])
3 ma ti.e r , but not at any great length. The identification is
{} 4 what I'm seeking.
e 5 A Okay.
h
@ 6 g Okay. Mr. Richard Ice.
R d 7 A He would be designated Letter B, former ASME s
j 8 supervisor I worked directly for.
d c; 9 g .In about what period of time?
z o
$ 10 A From approximately October through the early 3
11 part of January 1982.
h s
j 12 g The next one is Mr. Jim Hawkins. I know you've 5
a 5 13 mentioned him, so tell me who he is and what --
O.s m l$ 14 A He was the previous quality assurance manager jz 15 at Brown & Root site, Comanche Peak, up until, I believe, E I6 after the survey in October 1981.
w I7 g What relationship, if any, did you have with h
z
$ 18
_ him, or vice versa?
I9 A I worked directly under his supervision as 8
n 20 training coordinator ASME lead auditor for vendor audits, 21 or any applicable assignments he might have for me.
22 G I'm looking now for a person marked -- or
)
23 '
identified in the so-called Staff statement as Donna Lewellen 24 or Suwellen.
25 Could you tell me who that is, first of all?
i i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
1 3144
-5 ) A Donna Lewellen is the non-ASME coordinator for 2 nonconformance reports.
)
3 0 Her name is spelled with an L, is it?
{} 4 A Yes, but I don't know how to spell it, either.
e 5 0 Where does her name appear there in the CASE h
@ 6 Exhibit 663, your copy of your statement? I thought you R
$ 7 could find it for me fast.
M 8 8 It may not be in your statement.
d o 9 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman.
g 10 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
E
$ II MS. ELLIS: I believe on the top of Page 2 it
's N I2 mentions the non-ASME NCR coordinator, but I don't think 5
a
/~s 5 13 the name is mentioned.
U=
{ 14 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Very well.
[x 15 BY JUDGE MILLER: -
E I0 Anyhow, who is and was Donna Lewellen?
0 w
h A She is the Texas Utilities NCR coordinato r at z
M 18
_ Comanche Peak Nuclear Power Plant.
P 19 8 l 4 And what relationship did she in her job have n
20 to you in yours?
21 A She was the clerk that would issue nonconformanc e report nu mb e rs , do the typing and distribution of all
{])
23 ' nonconformance reports for the non-ASME side.
24 She's not the lady who was not present or left
{) 25 G
I for the day on one occasion, was she?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3445
-6 1 A Yes, it is.
2 Well, then, identify that portion.
({} G 3 A This is the same person.
4
(]) G That you did what with the report?
g 5 A Where I left the report on her desk, which is 0
3 6 also considered -- that part of the office is also the R
E 7 Texas Utilities QA library.
K 2 8 n MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, were you intending d
- 9
]- that Jim Hawkins be designated as Letter C and o
H 10 j Donna Lewellen as Letter D?
=
k JUDGE MILLER: I didn't care particularly, but a
d 12
$ I don't mind. I think by now we're going to have it c
13
(]) ! figured out, but any information we can put into the E 14 y hopper.
m 9 15 g MR. REYNOLDS: Perhaps the witness should T 16
$ provide that information and not Ms. Ellis.
p 17 a
JUDGE MILLER: Yes. Do you suppose the 5
w 18 g witness can? I don't want to take a lot of time on this.
I 19 2 I don't care about A, B and C. I want to know the people 20 on this.
21 BY JUDGE MILLER:
22
(]) G If you know, you can tell us as we go along; j if you can't, don't worry about it.
24
() 25 A Fine, G The next one is Randy Smith.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3446 4
i A. This statement that I looked at yesterday,
_7 2 I'd have to say would be letter designated E.
3 0 Who was he?
} 4 A. He was the non-ASME supervisor that I worked g 5 for at the time of my termination from approximately the 4
@ 6 last of February, first of March, 1982,-until April the
- g
& 7 12th, 1982, i
l 8 g Was he your direct supervisor?
d
- 9 A. Yes, he is.
z o
@ 10 - - -
a j 11 is I d 12 6
i S 13
! 5
=
E 14 Y.
E
- 2 15 i 5 g 16 w
d 17
=
5 18 C
g 19 n
l 20 l
21 22 j 23 ,
24 lO l
l 25 ,;
i i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
l
3447
-8 1 G What did he have to do, if anything, with your 2 discharge or firing?
{])
3 A He tried to prevent it.
() 4 G Did he give you a rating as to the quality of e 5 your work?
A e
j 6 A Yes, he did.
R 8 7 G What was that rating?
E
[ 8 A Excellent.
O q 9 G The next one I want to'ask you about is Mr.
z o
o 10 Gordon Purdy.
3
)
~
II A Yes. The letter designated as F.
j 12 He is Brown & Root's Comanche Peak site E
13
(]) j quality assurance manager administrator.
I4 How many levels is he above you, if at all?
G x
C 15 h A He's at the top; I was at the bottom.
x y 16 G Well, do you know how many levels there are w
hI x
between the top and the bottom in that regard?
$ 18
- A With the reshuffling of the personnel chart, 19 j I would say it could be as many as eight or ten.
20 0 What, if any, did he have to do with your 21 work, the evaluation of your work, or your discharge or 22
(] firing?
us 23 A Mr. Gordon Purdy was the one that implemented 24 my discharge papers and termination papers on the ~aidance
{)
25 and counseling report.
j I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3448
-9 1 % How did he go about implementing those papers?
() 2 A He called me into his office, showed me --
and 3 gave me a copy of a Speed Letter from Mr. C. T. Brandt
() 4 where I was not staying within the scope of my work and 5 refused to do a responsible job.
g 9
3 6 g Did you have any conversation with him or he R
$ 7 with you that you haven't previously testified about?
A j 8 A We had quite a --
d
=; 9 g First, yes or no, or have you covered it?
z C
$ 10 I don't want to recover what you've already-II 5 said.
3 12 j A Only there was quite an extensive statement.
=
{} f13 At first I refused to sign the termination notice, and I E 14 g think all that is self-evident on the --
m 2 15 x 0 Slow it down.
m d I0
- Why did you refuse to sign it? What did you w
b' 17 l w say?
l 5 m 18
= A I did not believe the justification for s
19 j termination was justifiable.
i 20 g What was the justification you were discussing?
21 A The reasons why I was being terminated.
() G What was the reason?
23 i
i A I'll have to refer back --
(]) G Tell me in substance.
L l 25 l A Basically, it was not following the responsibili t}
t l l t
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3449 ml0 1 and disobeying instructions.
2 Did you have any discussion with him or anyone
(]) O 3 else about that?
4 A Yes, I did.
(])
g 5 G If so, tell me to the best of your memory what 6
@ 6 you said and what he said, in substance?
R
{ 7 A In substance, basically, I told him I did not M
j 8 concur with it. Mr. Randy Smith was also present and he d
=; 9 z did not concur with it.
o g 10 The discussion was that --
II a
O What did you say and what did he say, in j 12
=
substance?
3 13 A
(]) j I tried to provide an opportunity to bring E 14 w previous supervisors and other inspectors in the office 9 15 G to --
x 16 3 G What others?
m d 17 w A This would be Mr. Randy Smith, Mr. Richard Ice, x
5 18
= Mr. Melvin Todd, a number of the other inspectors at the 19 j job site who I had worked with, trained under or training 20 them that could substantiate my knowledge as a field 21
! inspector.
(' G What did he say?
%)
23 A "No."
Anything further, in substance?
(]} G 25 ; A He went ahead and suggested that there was one i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3450 all 1 person on site that I might possibly be able to talk to f 2 to avert my termination.
)
(_3 3 G Who was that?
4 A He did not say, and I was so mad I did not
}
c 5 ask.
N
$ 6 G Anything further?
R
$ 7 A At this point I went ahead and made a statement s
j 8 on the guidance and counseling form which he had filled out d
c; 9 for my termination. At that point I quietly went about x
0 g 10 turning in my tools and processing out of the job site.
E II
$ G The next question relates to the identification 3
g 12 which you have partially made of C. T. Brandt?
=
a 13 A 5
m Yes, the letter designation would be G.
Q'N E 14 w He is the Ebasco employees' personnel under C 15
$ contract to Texas Utilities Service Company.
x d I0 M
G And how did he and you have any contact?
d 17 w A Most of our contact was through my immediate 5
m 18
- supervisor, Mr. Randy Smith, except for on one other 19 8
n occasion that I can recall.
20 G How many levels above you, then, was he, 21 approximately?
22
() 23 '
A In a direct line, two.
G Very well. You've covered your conversation 24 .
with him, to the extent you had any, about your termination
)
25 or work performance, have you? I don't want you to repeat.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3451 012 1 A There was no discussion between Mr. Brandt
() 2 and myself on my termination at all. I was unaware of 3 Mr. Brandt's involvement until I was in Mr. Purdy's
() 4 office and presented a copy of the Speed Letter by e 5 Mr. Brandt.
3 9
j 6 G All right. Now, who was Individual H?
R R 7 Mr. Tolson?
E l 8 A I don't know. I don't have that information.
d c 9 All right. Let me ask you about Mr. Tolson.
, G 2
o
@ 10 A Okay.
Il
$ G Tell me who he is and how he and you had any k
d 12 kind of a relationship, direct or indirect?
E c
() 13 A Mr. Tolson is the site quality assurance E 14 w supervisor or manager. I don't know the exact title C 15 b designation, for Texas Utilities at the Comanche Peak job
=
E I0 site.
w d 17 w Mr. Tolson and I had had many conversations
=
M 18
- on different things, one time in which he dressed me down s
19 j for writing an NCR on him.
i 20 Other times we had conversations --
21 G Tell me about that dressing down a little bit.
(]) A I think I'm the only inspector on the job 23 l site that ever issued a nonconformance report against him.
24 ID G Go ahead.
U 25 l A. Other times we had talked about problems as far l
t
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3452 pl3 1 as morale or personnel / labor relations department.
{} 2 Normally, he was receptive and gave me a little bit of time 3 to talk to him on this.
4
{) G And how many levels above you was he, 5 approximately?
g 9
@ 6 A The direct line on the non-ASME side, he would R
C
" 7 be one step above Mr. Tom Brandt.
N j 8 G Which would be how many above you?
O q 9 A Which would be about five levels.
2 C
e 10 How about Mr. David Chapman?
0 3_
II
$ A Mr. Chapman is above Mr. Tolson. His exact B
I2 job function and stuff I am not aware of.
N c
a 13 O5 E I4 I
I have met him on occasions at the Comanche b Peak job site.
9 15 g G You had no direct relationship with him in m
T 16 3
A any regards to the performance of your work or your discharge?
z M 18
= A No, sir, s
j 19 G What about Mr. Albert Boren, who conceded that 20 he is Individual J, one of the few?
21 A I wouldn't know Mr. Boren, if I met him in the 22 hall today.
23 ,
G You don't see him here in the second-to-the-last 24 row?
O 25 I A Now I see him.
1 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3453 214 1 O Okay. You had, I take it, no direct or 3
2 indirect relationship with Mr. Boren regarding your work
({}
3 requirements or your discharge?
(')
%s 4 A No, sir, I did not.
e 5 G All right, and Mr. Chet Wright, who is he?
b j 6 A From my knowledge and information I found out R
$ 7 he was the source inspector that had approved the release j 8 of the pipe whip restraints that were in question on a d
2 9' nonconformance report I had written.
$ 10 G I'm now going to ask you about NRC Staff 3
II h Exhibit 123, which relates to another investigation by B
N I2 Mr. D. D. Driskill and someone else on September 8 to 11, 5
() 13 and November 6 and 7, 1980, at the facility site at 14 Glen Rose, Texas, concerning allegations about Brown &
15
, Root Quality Assurance Department, and so forth.
E Ib Did you get a copy of that investigative A
d 17 o
. report?
=
M 18
_ A Yes I've got one somewhere, I believe.
9 19 j G And when were you furnished that copy?
20 .
A Last night.
21 Q By whom?
22
("} A CASE.
23 _ _ _
24 f3
(_) ,
25 i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3454 9-1 1 G Do you have the Exhibit 5-B, which has the h (_
e,) 2' expurgation marks? Is that what you have?
3 A Yes, I believe that's --
() 4 G All right. You have that before you. I'm e 5 asking also now about an investigative report which is N
$ 6 Staff Exhibit 123, and you may not have seen that, I'm R
$ 7 not sure.
A j 8 A No, sir, I have not.
O y 9 G All right. I want to ask you a question about z
O g 10 some individuals who are designated again by letters in E
11 that report, and I want to have you give me the same b
12 information, if you would, please.
5
(]) 13 MS. ELLIS: I'll give him my copy of this.
h I4 JUDGE MILLER: All right.
15
{z BY JUDGE MILLER:
j 16 Individual B, I believe, has been identified G
w h I7 ! as Mr. Hawkins. Would that be the same Jim Hawkins that x
6 18 3 you've already identified for me?
A 19 8 A Would you give me a moment to look at this, n
20 please?
21 r G Sure. Take your time.
() A Individual A is myself. I think that's well 23 established.
() I G I believe so.
25 ' A I believe that is correct; Mr. Jim Hawkins, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
I 3455 9-2 1 quality assurance manager of the Brown & Root Comanche Peak I) 2 site.
3 g Is there identified as Individual B in that 4 exhibit?
e 5 A Yes. I believe that's correct.
h h 6, 4 Now, Individual C, is it Mr. Meissner?
R S 7 A Yes. Mr. Ronald Meissner. He i s --
U j 8 g Meissner. Do you know how to spell that, d
c 9 by the way?
z C
$ 10 A I believe it's M-e-i-s-s-n-e-r. He is a
- '4 y 11 Brown & Root employee and is the vendor audit coordinator s v
(
12 and documentation review for ASME purchase orders at the
(]) 5 13 Comanche Peak jobsite.
l$ l-4 g Is Individual D Mr. Maxwell?
{x 15 A Mr. John Maxwell.
.j 16 g Who is he?
W N I7 A He was the site NDE Level 3 for Brown & Root.
N
$ 18 g And did you have any relationship with him?
P "g 19 A. I worked directly for him.
n 20 0 Did he ever evaluate you?
' 2I A I'm unaware of it.
(j 22 g You were given an evaluation of " excellent,"
23 ; I think, by one supervisor you mentioned. Was there another 24
(]) supervisor who also gave you a rating?
25 ! A I have several copies, I believe, as attachments ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3456 9-3 y on this --
() 2 G Yes. I just need the name of the person, the 3
supervisor.
() 4 A I believe Jim Ainsworth, possibly, and Mr. Phil e 5 Terry, who were -- Mr. Ainsworth was a Texas Utilities A
N 3 6 employee and was assistant to Mr. Ron Tolson, that I was o
E 7 working under his direction in the group.
% Have you identified now fully Mr. John Maxwell, 8 8 G N
d d 9 insofar as it concerns you or your complaints or job i
h 10 performance? .
z 4
=
m 11 A I'm sorry, I --
a d 12 4 I say, have you fully identified Mr. Maxwell?
z ym
() 5jm 13 A Yes.
l$ 14 4 All right. The next one is Individual E; 2 15 might be, although it isn't certain, Mr. Leigh?
5 y 16 A Yes. That would be Mr. Danny Leigh, L-e-i-g-h.
w 17 G All right. Who was he and how did he and you
=
M 18 have any relationship?
l 5
$ 19 A Mr. Leigh is the receiving inspection super-5 20 visor for Comanche Peak jobsite; also certified as an 21 auditor.
() 22 G And Ms. Clara Holiday?
23 A Miss Clara Holiday is the ASME NCR co-() 24 3
ordinator, an employee of Brown & Root.
25 MR. REYNOLDS: Mr. Chairman?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3457 9-4 y JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
() 2 MR. REYNOLDS: Along that line, it might help 3 in rounding out the record if you asked the same question t) 4 of the witness as to whether he knows Richard Barber, who e 5 is the witness in Applicant's Exhibit 121, whether he had d
8 6 any direct contact, and so forth.
m 7 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. What's the name? Barber?
A 8 8 MR. REYNOLDS: Richard Barber.
n d
d 9 BY JUDGE MILLER:
$ 10 G Do you know Mr. Richard Barber? If so, 3
5 11 identify him in the same way.
M d 12 A Yes, I know Mr. Richard Barber is an employee E
=
,y 13 of Gibbs & Hill. The capacity, I'm not familiar with. We
{ 14 had talked just on an individual friendship and not in a 2 15 professional manner at Comanche Peak.
g 16 0 You had no other relationship with him?
M g 17 A No, sir.
N 5 18 JUDGE MILLER: Any other names you'd like
=
H E 19 identified?
5 l 20 MR. REYNOLDS: No, thank you.
21 JUDGE MILLER: This is a show-and-tell session.
! /') 22 (Laughter.)
l v
! 23 , JUDGE MILLER: All right. Fine.
24 I
(} Dr. Cole has some questions for you.
25 jff ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3457 i 9-5 j BOARD EXAMINATION
() 2 BY JUDGE COLE:
3 G Just two questions, Mr. Atchison.
() 4 A Certainly, e 5 0 In CASE Exhibit 656, the supplemental testimony ,
8 6 Page 2, in the middle of that page, your answer concerning e
[o 7 an audit of Tennessee Wall, Tube & Metal in about January 8 or February of 1981.
O d 9 A Yes.
i h 10 0 You indicated that the response of the Tennessee d
5 11 Wall, Tube & Metal Company, and I'm using your words here, k
j 12 you state, "It wasn't really acceptable to either.me or
=
(]) ml 13 the lead auditor." The "me" is referring to yourself?
l$ 14 A Correct.
2 15 G Do you recall exactly what the problem was, sir?
E j 16 A Yes. One of the audit deficiencies on their w
d 17 vendor surveillance was only done in pencil. There was no 5
{ 18 completed checklist. Even the cover page was only partially P
19 filled out in pencil, and there was no completed checklist
{n 20 where they had performed an audit or a vendor on there and 21 they came back and said that it was a clerical error that 22 there had never been a response and they did not provide,
(])
23 and could not provide completed documentation.
24 The quality assurance manager at that facility
(]) 1 25 produced this file for us and said this was his records, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3458 9-6 j and he had been the one to perform the audit. I don't
() 2 exactly remember the complete response on it.
3 It was unacceptable at that point to Mr. Leigh
() 4 and myself, but the quality assurance manager at that time e 5 said the response was adequate for his concern and to go U
M 6 ahead and close it out, which Mr. Leigh was lead auditor, o
7 and it was done.
s 8 8 g All right. On Page 67 of your testimony, n
d d 9 CASE Exhibit 650, in response to some questions concerning i
h 10 the safety for operating purposes of the Comanche Peak 3
5 11 Nuclear Power Plant, you were questioned as to the basis B
d 12 for your conclusion, and you responded that, personal E
~c y 13 observations of physical defects and bad management
=
l$ 14 techniques. That is on Page 67, sir. Do you recall that?
E 15 A Yes. I have it in front of me.
! 5 g' 16 g Are there any physical defects at Comanche Peak i w l @ 17 j Nuclear Power Station of any nuclear safety significance 5
M 18 that you have personal knowledge of that have not been 5
$ 19 corrected?
n 20 A Not being an engineer, I can only relate to 21 what I personally observed. On the NPSI pipe whip 22
(]) restraints, which has not fully been looked at or 23 : investigated, the 588 material that is used in those, I
i 24 during the welding process has extreme warpage to it. The l
(])
i 25 l angle provided for a fit-up on the main steam lines for i
i
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3459 9-7 1 these was not addressed in Welding Procedure WPS-10047 et
() 2 that site. The configurations of these, and the warpage 3 of the pre-welded, or the vendor welded items, are as bad
() 4 and in some cases worse than those supplied on the CB&I s 5 pipe whip restraints.
0 l
@ 6 To my knowledge, these defects in welding may A
{ 7 or may not constitute a defect that could be injurious to A
j 8 the plant or the failure of a safety system. My concern d
d 9 is, as a utility payer, as an inspector on the jobsite, z'
o
@ 10 if I'm going to pay for a Cadillac, I want a Cadillac, I 3
j 11 don't want a Ford, to kind of paraphrase it.
s j 12 The items there, they would rather -- managemen:
=
() h= 13 say these are no problems and try to cover up and go on m
1 5 14 in order to get the plant on line as soon as possible to
{m 15 recover the money. That's a heavily invested area.
j 16 g Well, sir, these items that you mentioned, w
17 were these the subject of your inspections or investi-f f_
f= 18 gations?
< b l g I9 1 Yes, they are.
l 20 Did you file NCR's on these items?
f G 21 A An NCR, in my scope of responsibility on the
() 22 pipe whip restraints, yes, I was -- there was not an NCR filed on the vendor supplied items of NPSI. The first l
() .
step, first one that I was able to get through was the one
- that I had filed on the four pieces on the pipe whip l
i
. { ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3460 9-8 1 restraints furnished by CB&I.
2 Shortly thereafter I was terminated, and there 3 was never an NCR generated on the vendor defects of the
) 4 welds on the NPSI pipe whip restraints.
e 5 G Do you know if that was or is being looked b
@ 6 into, sir?
R
$ 7 A I do not.
7e j 8 JUDGE COLE: All right. Thank you.
d d 9 JUDGE MILLER: Dr. McCollom.
i O
g 10 BOARD EXAMINATION s
j 11 BY JUDGE McCOLLOM:
a j 12 G On Ms. Ellis' redirect on the ASME survey and E
(]) 13 the certification allowed to expire, you made the statement 14 l )
there was insufficient correlation between the QA manual e
15
{e and the site procedures, as your observation as the reasons g' 16 why it was allowed to expire.
A
- 17 Can you tell me how you knew that?
h x
IO A I was present during the exit meeting and this h
P-
. "g 19 is what the ASME team stated at their exit meeting.
n 20 That's the conclusion that you heard the team 0
2I state at that time?
() 22 A That is correct.
23 G I'd like to ask one other question with respect j () 4 to any academic work that you have had that is accredited l 25 by another institution that is called higher education.
t ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3461 9-9 y Now, Tarrant Junior College we've resolved.
I A
2l Correct.
g Are there other places wh+re you actually got 3
es college credits --
not training programs, not short
(_) 4 o 5 courses, but college credit aaywhere?
A n
j 6, A No, sir, there is not.
1 I 4
f7 !
JUDGE McCOLLOM: That's all my questions.
5 8 Thank you, n
d d 9 JUDGE MILLER: We'll take about a ten-minute
~4 0
y 10 recess.
E E
11 (A short recess was taken.)
a d 12 // /
E
() 13
$ 14
=
2 15 w
=
j
. 16
- l
@ 17 :
5 l 5 18 !
= l H i E 19 t' 1 5 i
M 20 21 r^N 22 i
(_) !
23 '
(;
m-1A 25 I
I i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3462 10-1 j JUDGE MILLER: Are we ready to resume now, b'] 2 Ms. Ellis?
' t 3 MS. ELLIS: Yes.
() 4 JUDGE MILLER: Are you through with Mr.
e 5 Atchison?
A h6 MS ELLIS: The court reporter has reminded 7 me that we haven't yet offered his testimony into evidence.
A j 8 I guess we had better do that.
d .
c 9 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Why don't you offer G 10 what you wish.
E
{k 11 MS. ELLIS: All right. We.wish to move that d CASE Exhibit E50 and its Attachments A through X, 12 . and a
a ~
d 13 Exhibit 656,'which is the prefiled' testimony of Charles A.
(]) ,
@ 14 Atchison be admitted into evidence /, ,
2 15 JUDGE MILLER: Does that cover all of.your
, $ i j 16 exhibits now?
,, M
- ) -
i b, 17 MS. ELLIS: Also CASE Exhibit 663, which is W '
x
{ 18 the statement of Charles A. Atchison dated April,14, 1982, 5 19 g and 665 A, B, C, Drire the photographs which were found M -
20 in Mr. Hawkins' desk. '~[
21 We move that these be a'dmi tte d into e,yidence.
22 JUDGE MILLER: Any objection?
j{}
23 MR. REYNOLDS: A very limited objection, Mr.
24 Chairman. /
25 On Page 65 of Exhibit 650, we object to the, 1 >
i l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
[j ,
i,
u, y
s f ;M 3463'
-i* .; .
10-2 ,
1 page, starting with the
.second, full paragro ~
y ,. ,h ,onethat u.
>.* s 2 H ' wo rd' ,' "YouMd finp yh at+", * ; p own through the question start-
, , . e ,
Q,m '" '
/
j~
y,,'r)l/
3i --ing, "How did it m Qe you feel," as irreleviant to the issues l J i .
/,
p- ~~~4' t'
. n, , . -
Q in this proccealgg; , ,
e l
/
y 'i<
$[
o 5' / JUDGE"CbbEg And including the answer to the '
E W 3
./
@ 6 quest' ion that beg'insyNith["How <
did it make[you ,fAel?"
$.. . .) '
y '"i g 7
- v i4R .. . REY NOLOSY-j.Ye s , sir.
1 7
n ,.
./ _
,., l
@ 8 ' l'. , t ' . , m gg, ,cLLys J Mr. Chairman, may I be heard on
- s. ?~'. . /. .,
l r',' ~ .
l ' . v, .-
Q 9 tyggy ;l';
z l. ., / e,d -
o ',- f b . 10 'y (, i- ,,
ag'dGE idi[ER: \'ou may.
f . i. 1 r
= ; c. J II A
y
! ,.M S . E L L I 6 ;, IThis,has to go directiv.to rir the
- y. ,
, .: i .
. s r y ; .
I2 ra 5 mo ral'e/ ,p rob lems , wh L c h we', ~pon'te nd t h a ve 'a d i r e c t correla-
' ) ', - ,
b 5 , - j U ' .. ,
- ~
. 3 . ~.. ~ . J ;
v 5-c tion between the quality of' work at thecpla'n6 '
c~
,p 5nYr the -
,, ^
E T4 e
~
~ - *
~'
p . attitude of,the workers.". /
g , ->> -.
9 15 ' I believe it's"very
- clear throughout this a -
,e r .
^
.- 16 - ' Y #~ <
b e g in n,i n'g o n P a g e 6'4 ,, w i th the last en ti re' section' he re ,
answer on the page that \
- , th.i;5/ ,is ~ wh a t is being talked-
~ E 18
- about as that it c re a te d^ po cr-dro r ale .
, p- o e r ,
~*
19 #
n ' ,,r.
JUDGE MILLER: -We be liev e f'th, a t i t ' s . ,s u f,f '.c i e n t ly e
.. a a
- I ' ~
3~ A~ #
l ' A ** '
20.3'pf.! i rflevant to be admitted. -The're f o re , we 'UTll;g.de rrule,d "'~ '
w / ./ ' , ,1 21 y i'
/ ... ,
~
'd, l t h e objection. ' "
m,Ag ' :,. . f,
-r
, j ,-
42- y x MR. REYNOL,DS: On'Page 66, th e sf,i rs t full para- -
- t. ,
, 2L ' s j '
. i/; < graph' co n t.h a t pagd, r e l _a t e s to> occupational safety and
,, ' , ~. 1 . ,
24 I '
- h, y - - '
hea.lth matt'ers a'n& is irrelennt.
~
O\., ,i
- e9
~ '
2'5 'I i'
!. +
(Bench conference .) ,
?/.
f ALDERSON REPORilNG COMPANY, INC. 1
. . , '\
a-
.v,. - -
^ -
b., -
1 i 3464 j 10-3 j JUDGE MILLER: We think we will sustain the
() 2 bjection to that, Ms. Ellis, on the grounds that con-4 3 sistently we have indiceced that we don't think those i i
'$ )
4 matters are relevant to the issues.
e 5 MS. ELLIS: All right.
E n
d e 6 JUDGE MILLER: The objection is sustained.
R R 7 Would you identify by line number or otherwise s
j 8 appropriately the portions that we are now striking.
d n 9 MR. REYNOLDS: On Page 66 of CASE Exhibit 650
- /
o g 10 from Line 2 through Line 11.
E j
3 11 JUDGE COLE: Including Line 2?
j 12 MR. REYNOLDS: Including Line 2 --
I'm sorry.
=
Line 3 through 11.
(]) mh 13 h 14 JUDGE MILLER: Lines 3 through 11 will be 2 15 stricken.
N -
g 16 MS. ELLIS: Is that not Line 12?
w l b' 17 JUDGE MILLE 7: 12, all right.
~
5 18 MR. REYNOLDS: 3 througn 12.
h t.
E g 19 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Next?
5 l 20 MR. REYNOLDS: With regard to CASE Exhibit 2I 6500, which is Attachment 15 to Mr. Atchison's primary 22 testimony, we object on the grounds that there has been no
(])
I 23 : foundation laid for the exhibit.
24 MS. ELLIS: I believe Mr. Atchison was asked
(])
25 l about that and established what it was.
t l
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
1
l 3465 10-4 j (Bench conference.)
JUDGE MILLER: The objection is overruled.
(]) 2 There was some identification -- not a great deal, but 3
I) 4 some mention of it in the testimony, so we prefer to have
(-
e 5 it.
E n
d 6 MR. REYNOLDS: In Case Exhibit 656, which is o
E 7 Mr. Atchison's supplementary testimony, on Pages 11 and 8 8 12, we object to the admission of all of Page 11 as ir-n d
d 9 relevant to issues in this case.
i c Starting with --
h 10 JUDGE COLE:
z g 11 MR. REYNOLDS: All of 11 and the first four M
j 12 lines of 12.
5 13 (Bench conference.)
(])
14 MS. ELLIS: That was through which line on h
s 2 15 'Page 12?
E y 16 MR. REYNOLDS: Through the 4th line, ending M
d 17 with the word " supervisor."
E a
m 18 MS. ELLIS: All right.
E b
g I9 JUDGE MILLER: The motion will be sustained.
n i
20 Page 11 and the first four lines of Page 12 will be
(
2I stricken on the ground of relevancy, or lack thereof.
22 MR. REYNOLDS: Those are the only objections
(])
l 23 , I have.
24 l
{) JUDGE MILLER: Staff?
! 25 l MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman -- pardon me -- I i
' O I
l . ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
l
- 10-5 3466 y have a question about that.
(]) 2 Will the cross-examination testimony remain 3 in the record?
~
4 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. It was there and it was (V}
e 5 asked.
E 9
3 o 6 MR. REYNOLDS: Certainly.
R 8 7 JUDGE MILLER: And the document you see --
K j 8 while I'm striking portions from the record -- doesn't d
d 9 mean that we tear them up and spit them out. They've i
O g 10 been identified and higher authority can look at them.
E g 11 MS. ELLIS: I wasn't clear what that really B
j 12 meant. Thank you.
=
13 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. Anything further, Ms.
{)
l$ 14 Ellis -- Well, I haven't heard from the Staff yet.
2 15 Any objection by the Staff?
z y 16 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Could we have just a second, A
6 17 Mr. Chairman?
w d IO JUDGE MILLER: Sure.
9 19 9
M (Pause.)
20 MR. TREVY: Mr. Chairman, the only item that 21 we have any request to make regarding is Item 663, which 22
(^)
\j was the -- Exhibit No. 663 for identification that has 23 - been proposed, which is the statement of Mr. Atchison.
24
(,) The Staff would request that the Board defer
%J ,
25l ruling on that at this time with regard to its ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3467 10-6 j admissibility to afford the Staff an opportunity to pursue
() 2 whatever motions, etc., it may wish to do, and so that 3 the status quo of the record could be maintained as of
() 4 this time, e 5 We're not objecting to it at this time. We A
N 8
o 6 just reques t that the Board defer ruling on it at this R
g 7 time.
8 n
8 JUDGE MILLER: Well, we certainly mean to be d
d 9 cooperative with the Staff, and it's a perfectly appropriate z'
o y 10 request to obtain ruling and so forth; however, we think E
{s
~
11 that these documents are sufficiently identified in the j 12 public record, and gone into, that they should be ad-E
(]) 13 mitted.
l$ 14 They have been marked for i dentification and 2 15 used and are pretty well embedded in the transcript.
5
_j 16 We think, further, upon review by higher w
@ 17 authority that CASE Exhibit 663 should certainly be com-5 18 pared with Exhibits 5 and 5A of the Board, which are the h
P h I9 Staff's expurgations, because then the record shows what n
20 happened, and I think reviewing authority should very 2I clearly see just the nature of the deletions.
22 So we will overrule your objection, if it be
(])
23 l an objection. We will decline the request to defer, but I
/~T 24 we will indicate to the Staff that we certainly have no
\m/
25 ' objection to anything that might facilitate their appeal, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3468 l10-7 3 or whatever action they wish to take.
What about CASE Exhibit 664, portions of the
(]) 2 3 deposition? It's clear that the deposition itself was put in, I think, essentially; but nonetheless --
(v') 4 e 5 nevertheless, these two sheets -- reproductions of Pages M
n 6 21 and 22 of the deposition were the subject of some h
R M. 7 interrogation in the record.
s 8
u 8 We will, therefore, admit for that purpose at d
d 9 any rate CASE Exhibit 664.
7:
o g 10 (The documents heretofore marked E
h 11 for identification as CASE Ex-a i 12 hibits Nos. 650, 650A through 5
(~) y 13 650X, 656, 665A through 665D, us =
l$ 14 and 663 were received in evi-
{= 15 dence.)
j 16 JUDGE MILLER: Now are there any other exhibits i
d 17 that were used in Mr. Atchison's testimony that you have
{ 18 not offered?
P
{M 19 MS. ELLIS: I believe that's everything.
20 JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
21 I take it then that you wish to have Mr.
(')
%)
22 Atchison released?
23 ! MS. ELLIS: Yes, sir.
(~ 24 JUDGE MILLER: Thank you, Mr. Atchison, for b) 25 appearing. You're dismissed.
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3469 10-8 j THE WITNESS: Thank you, gentlemen.
O 2 (wieaees excueea > !
3 JUDGE MILLER: Your next witness?
O 4 us st' s: we ce11 --
e 5 JUDGE MILLER: Just a moment.
3 N
6 Have copies been -- Have there been copies of h
R 2 7 all the exhibits which you have just offered and had n
j 8 admitted into evidence?
d d 9 - - -
i C
g 10 a
j 11 a
ti 12 E
O i= is E 14
=
2 15 w
M j 16 us l @ 17 m
l 3 M 18
=
N
, 19 M
20 21 O 22 23 I
, 24 1 l
25 l
t l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
I
3470 (0-9 MS. ELLIS: Have we supplied copies to every-1
() 2 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
3 MS. ELLIS: I believe so.
JUDGE MILLER: All right. In the event there e 5 h is any deficiency --
g 6 R MS..ELLIS: We'll be glad to supply them --
8 7 3 JUDGE MILLER: --
the reporter will let you g a d know and we'll ask to have the record rendered complete.
d 9
$ Thank you.
g 10
$ You may call your next witness.
j 11 3 MS. ELLIS: We call Robert L. Hamilton and g 12 3 Cordella Marie Hamilton.
f'i d 13
\_/ 2
~
JUDGE MILLER: Would you stand and be sworn, E 14 pl ase.
!W 15
- Whereupon,
_j 16
^ ROBERT L. HAMILTON g 17 x
and b 18 CORDELLA M. HAMILTON f 39 a alled as witnesses by counsel for the Intervenors, and 20 21 having first been duly sworn by the Chairman, were examined es 22 and testified as follows:
O JUDGE MILLER: You may be seated.
23 24 !/
() 25 i/
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3471 j DIRECT' EXAMINATION 10-10 Q 2 BY MS. ELLIS: .
3 G Mrs. Hamilton, please state your name and O 4 eaare== ' r 'he re ra-o 5 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
A n
d 6 A Cordella Marie Hamilton, Box 59, Glen Rose e
N g 7 Star Route.
A 8 8 MR. REYNOLDS: We can't hear, Mr. Chairman.
N r) d 9 JUDGE MILLER: No, I can't either. Was someone
- i h 10 talking?
3 l
is 11 (Laughter.)
y 12 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Cordella Marie Hamilton, 13 Box 59, Glen Rose Star Route, Cleburne, Texas.
h 14 BY MS. ELLIS:
2 15 G Mrs. Hamilton, do you have before you prepared
- s x _
g' 16 testimony for these proceedings?
us t' 17 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
5
{ 18 A. Yes.
i~
19 G Is this a document that has been marked as g
n 20 CASE Exhibit 652?
2I BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
22 A. Yes.
23 i (The document above-referred to 24 was marked as CASE Exhibit No.
25 ' 652 for identification.)
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3472 l10-11 j BY MS. ELLIS:
) 2 G Are there any changes or corrections that you 3 wish to make to your testimony at this time?
() 4 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
e 5 A Yes, there are.
A N
e 6 0 All right. Could you tell us what those are, R
g 7 please?
i A 8
N 8 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
d d 9 A. Page 2, Line 16.
i o
@ 10 0 All right.
z
=
2 11 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
k
- j 12 A. The paint warehouse and I also did documenta-E
() j m 13 tion. The correction is --
m g 14 G Is that just a small "i" that needs to be 2 15 changed to --
5 g' 16 JUDGE MILLER: Wait a minute. Now I didn't a
W d 17 get that.
5
{ 18 Mrs. Hamilton, would you get the mike right in '
P 19 front of you. Look at it and then when you start talking, l g n
20 look at the Board. Would you, please?
21 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: All right.
() 22 The correction to be made is "the paint 23 warehouse and I also did documentation."
24
(]) JUDGE MILLER: What's the correction?
25 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: "I."
I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3473 10-12 1 JUDGE COLE: Between "nnd" and "also."
() 2 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Yes.
3 JUDGE MILLER: The correction is noted.
/'N
() 4 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: On Page 4, Line 17 --
e 5 JUDGE COLE: Excuse me. Ms. Ellis, do you 2
9 3 6 have another copy of this? I've got a page missing in R
$ 7 mine.
3 .
8 8 MS. ELLIS: I'm sorry.
d 0; .9 (Document handed to Judge Cole.)
z c
g 10 JUDGE MILLER: Very well, Mrs. Hamilton, E
11 had you identified the correction or change-that you 3
j 12 wanted on Page 4.
E
() a]
r% J 13 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: I wanted to add "I" l$ 14 after "and" in front of "also."
15
{m MS. ELLIS: I think that was on Page 2.
j 16 JUDGE MILLER: Well, that was your first cor-A I
. rection. That's already made.
m M 18
- Now, Mrs. Hamilton, get that mike over by l
19 l
8 you.
n 20 That's right. Talk right into it.
i Now you're on Page 4. You've given us a line I r% 22 l (,) there.
! 23 I l WITNESS C. HAMILTOR: Line 17, the correction t 24 C' is " kind."
25
- JUDGE MILLER: K-i-n-d, after "what" and ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3474 10-13 j before "of hanger"? ,
WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Yes.
(]) 2 3 JUDGE MILLER: It's made.
WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
{') 4 Page 5, Line 25.
e 5 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. What's the correction?
A n
8 6 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: The correction is e
R g 7 "then" after "and" and before "I."
N 8 8 JUDGE McCOLLOM: Th a t ' s t-h-e-n?
d d 9 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Uh-huh.
i h 10 JUDGE MILLER: You changed "them" to "then" 3
l3 11 in that line; is that it?
6 12 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Uh-huh.
3
=
= 13 JUDGE MILLER: Okay, it's made,
(}
h 14 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: All right. Page 7, 2
w 15 Line 29 --
g 16 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
W d l'7 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: I want to change it 5
{ 18 to "were." "There were at least 500."
P 19 JUDGE MILLER: "Yes. There were at least n
20 500," ins tead of "was." Is that correct?
2I WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Uh-huh.
22 (3 Page 8, Line 12 --
%)
23 JUDGE MILLER: All right. And what's your l 1
24 (3
.u) correction, please?
25 ' WITNESS C. HAMILTON: "
... before the t
l
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. '
3475 3
documents were deposited in the QA." " Deposited" is the 2 correction. ,
3 JUDGE MILLER: What's the correction? Oh, l l
4 " deposited." We've corrected the spelling on " deposited." i e 5 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 8, Line 14, 3
n 6 "Then I handed them," "then" is the correction.
57 g
7 Page 8, Line 15, ... and then I sent them to E
8 8 the vault." " S e n t '.' is the correction.
n d
c 9 JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
- r:
h 10 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 9, Line 16 --
E 5 11 JUDGE MILLER: What's the correction?
is 6 12 - - -
E c
Oi' E 14
- a2 2 15 5
i j 16 r us i 17 d
l $ 18 l ?
E 19 A
20 21 m 22 V
23 24 25 }:
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3476
'10-15 1 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: " Concern" is misspelled.
() 2 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. Change the "m" to an 3 "n." Okay.
's))
4 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 9, Line 25 --
e 5 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
@ 6 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: I want to change "you" G
a 7 to "your."
s
] 8 JUDGE MILLER: We'll add an "r" to it. Very d
d 9 well.
i o
g 10 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 9, Line 30, E
II
$ " items" is misspelled.
E fc I2 JUDGE MILLER: All right. That has been cor-() 13 rected.
I4 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 10, Line 21 --
g 15 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
m E
' I0 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: There needs to be a W
I7 space between "and" and h
=
"he."
M 18
- JUDGE MILLER: All right.
H 19 j WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page ll, Line 7 --
JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
21 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: I need to change "may"
(^
(,3 j 22 to "maybe."
23 ,
I j JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
i
) ,
WITHESS C. HAMILTON: Page 14, Line 3 --
! 25 I JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
s 3477 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: I want to add "the" 1
10-(6- "
(_) 2 in fr nt of " batch number." ... they'd leave off the 3
batch number."
I 4 JUDGE MILLER: After "or" in the previous e 5 line. Okay.
A 6 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 14, Line 12, a e
7 space between "a" and " lot."
8 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. Okay, d
d 9 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 15, Line 4 --
i h 10 JUDGE MILLER: Well, don' t you have a cor-E I 11 rection there after " Harry Williams"?
d 12 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Oh, all right.
E c
(~) d t;
13 JUDGE MILLER: " Harry Williams got in on G
E w 14 that." You need a "t"?
2 15 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Yes.
E g' 16 JUDGE MILLER: All right. It's added.
W
@ 17 Next.
w
=
5 18 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 15, Line 4 --
5 j
n 19 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
20 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: " Material" needs to be 21 corrected.
22 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. By putting an "a" there.
{])
23 ; Okay.
("
V}
24 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 15, Line 26 --
25l JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3478
.10-17. j WITNESS C, HAMILTON: "It" needs to be
(
.s 2 added.
3 JUDGE MILLER: To what?
4 MS. ELLIS: "That it also"?
e 5 WITNESS C. H,AMI LTON : Yes.
A n
6 JUDGE McCOLLOM: I haven't.found it.
h R
g 7 Oh ...
M j 8 JUDGE MILLER: Read the line as it should be, d
d 9 Ms. Ellis. Read the correct line.
7:
o
$ 10 MS. ELLIS: Okay. "That it also had on it E
j E
11 and find out for sure," and so forth.
g 12 JUDGE McCOLLOM: Changing "is" to "it"?
() m 13 MS. ELLIS: Right.
.E 14 JUDGE McCOLLOM: Thank you.
2 15 JUDGE MILLER: Okay.
E y 16 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 15, Line 29 --
W d l'7 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
s M 18 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: I want to -- Now I've 5
l9 got to find it.
5 20 JUDGE COLE: Just a separation between "with" 21 and "some"?
() 22 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Yes.
23 Page 15, Line 34, I need to change "an" to fl 24l "at*"
%) f 25 l JUDGE McCOLLOM: Where?
l
} '
} ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
I 3479 10-18 j So it reads --
{}
7 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: .. the only ones 3
w rking the day shift at that time."
4 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. Next.
e 5 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 16, Line 7.
E 6 JUDGE MILLER: Okay.
7 MS.'ELLIS: 'I.J b e li e ve that this one has already 8 been corrected, at least it has on my copy. It shows d
d 9 " stacking up."
i h p) JUDGE MILLER: Yes. Bring them together a 3
5 11 little bit?
B d 12 MS. ELLIS: Yes.
3
=
13 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. Next?
{])
E 14 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 16, Line 37.
N z
2 15 JUDGE MILLER: And?
j 16 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: " Form" should be changed A
g 17 to "from."
w a
$ 18 JUDGE MILLER: Okay.
h
$ 19 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 17, Line 23.
R 20 JUDGE MILLER: Line 23, okay.
21 WITNESS C. HAMILTOU: "If" should be changed p 22 to "it."
Q 23 ; - - -
)
25 ,
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3480 11-1 1 JUDGE MILLER: Which line is that?
O 2 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: 23. .
3 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Okay.
4 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 18, Line 5.
o S JUDGE MILLER: Line what?
3 9
3 o 6 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Line 5.
R
?
3 7 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. What's the change?
s 8 8 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: "As." Can you be as d
d 9 specific as possible; "as" should be added.
$ 10 JUDGE MILLER: Okay.
E j ll WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Page 20, Line 7.
M
- j 12 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. Change?
(% 5
(-) 13 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: I want to omit the word l 14 "either."
2 15 JUDGE MILLER: You want to strike "either"?
y 16 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: Yes.
W 17 JUDGE MILLER: It's stricken. Go ahead.
18 WITNESS C. HAMILTON: That's all.
I 19 JUDGE MILLER: That's it.
f g I n 20 BY MS. ELLIS:
21 And have you prepared a statement G All right.
22 of your educational and work background for use in these 23 proceedings?
pm 24
(_) BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
! 25 i A Yes.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3481 11-2 j G And is that the document that's attached tc
() 2 the back of your testimony and has been marked as CASE 3 Exhibit 652-A?
() 4 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
e 5 A Yes.
3 N
d 6 G All right. Was this testimony prepared under e
R R 7 your direction and supervision?
E j 8 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
d d 9 A Yes.
i O
g 10 0 And as corrected, do you adopt it as your own E
in these proceedings?
{3 11 j 12 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
hi =
13 A Yes.
$ 14 0 Is it true and correct?
$ 15 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
5 y 16 A Yes.
W 17 l -
G All right. Mr. Hamilton, please state your ;
[P 18 name and address for the record.
$ 19 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
5 20 A Robert L. Hamilton, Glen Rose Star Route, 21 Box 59, Cleburne, Texas.
() 22 0 And do you have before you prepared testimony 23 i for these proceedings?
24 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
25 ! A Yes, I do.
I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3482 11-3 j G And it is the document marked CASE Exhibit 653?
O k/ 2 (The document referred to was 3 marked CASE Exhibit 653 for
( 4 identification.)
g 5 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
9 8 6 A Yes, it is.
R g 7 G And are there any changes or additions you 8 wish to make to your testimony at this time?
d d 9 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
i o
@ 10 A Yes, there are.
_3 E 11 G Would you tell us what those are, please?
i B d 12 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E c
n(-/j 13 A Page 21, Line 26.
=
h 14 JUDGE MILLER: And what's the change?
2 15 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: It's a typographical 5
j 16 error. It's a comma, I guess.
M d 17 JUDGE MILLER: What's the correction, please?
$ 18 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: It's a comma.
5
}5 19 JUDGE MILLER: Nhere?
20 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: At the end of " heaters."
2I JUDGE McCOLLOM: The very last word on the page ?
rh 22 (m/ WITNESS R. II AMILT ON : Yes. Uh-huh.
23 JUDGE McCOLLOM: Wait a minute, there's two
( 24 heaters; " heaters heaters." Do you want to delete one of 25 those heaters?
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
__.u__.._____.___- .- - -
3483 11-4 j MR. REYNOLDS: On what page are we,
/*
O 2 Mr. Chairman?
3 JUDGE McCOLLOM: The last word on Page 21 and O 4 the first word on Page 22 are both " heaters."
e 5 MR. REYNOLDS: They're redundant heaters.
M N
d' 6 JUDGE MILLER: Do you want to strike the o
R 8 7 " heaters" down at the bottom --
M j 8 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Strike one ofthe d
- ! 9 " heaters."
7:
O g 10 JUDGE MILLER: Very well. We'll strike that 3
j 11 one, the one following "Kally" at the bottom of Page 21 3
d 12 is stricken.
/~T $
v2 13 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Page 27, Line 22, 5
=
z 5 14 controlled conditions. There should be a period after 15
{= " conditions." _
y 16 JUDGE MILLER: Right. And it starts off with A
! U 17 capital I, "It's not monitored," and so forth?
E
- 5 18 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Correct.
~
s 19 JUDGE MILLER: That's done. Next?
5 20 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Page 29, Line 16, "was 21 l to_ strain." " Strain" is misspelled.
22 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. Strain, s-t-r-a-i-n, and i 23 { drop the "g"?
l I)
24 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Right. Drop the "g."
25 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. That's done. Next?
l l __
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
l 3484 11-5 j WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Page 33, Line 11.
m 2 JUDGE MILLER: What?
3 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: "It's done," strike 4 the "d," add the "s."
e 5 JUDGE MILLER: Okay.
A n
se 6 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Page 35, Line 8, " vendor W
8 7 Richard Dendy was discharged."
M 3 8 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
d d 9 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: We're adding a "d" on i
O g 10 discharged.
j 11 JUDGE MILLER: Right.
B j 12 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Page 55, Line 17.
I~Tb
(> 13 JUDGE MILLER: 55, Line 17.
g m
m 5
. 14 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Under "every couple of
{m 15 days or so," "or" replaces "if" and "of."
y 16 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. Next?
A
! $ 17 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Page 56, Line 23.
} 18 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
P g
I9 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: I believe the change is n
20 capitalization of "W" in " white."
l 2I JUDGE MILLER: Okay.
22 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Page 58, Line 6.
23 , JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
j l /'i 24 (s_/ WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Under "I can give you 25 an approximate number," that should be changed to "I can't."
( ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3485 11-6 j JUDGE MILLER: Can't? Oh. C-a-n-apostrophe-t r%
(-) 2 is what you want it to read?
3 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Yes.
) 4 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Go ahead.
o 5 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Page 61, Line 21.
e 4
3e 6 JUDGE MILLER: Okay.
R
$ 7 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Under "in that they had E
n E 8 excess to the rotating" --
d d 9 JUDGE MILLER: Strike the "h"?
i C
g 10 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Yes.
z .
^
i =
j 11 JUDGE MILLER: All right.
B
- j 12 WITNESS R. HAMILTON: That's all I have that I
/~N 3 V $= 13 want to change.
i h 14 JUDGE MILLER: All right.
2 15 MS. ELLIS: And I believe the " rotating" needs w
m j 16 to be corrected there.
W N I'7 JUDGE MILLER: Yes, rotating is misspelled.
N 18 t
{ JUDGE McCOLLOM: In that same line.
8 g
I9 JUDGE MILLER: Yes, the last word in the same
[
I 20 line.
I 2I Very well. Proceed.
() 22 MS. ELLIS: All right.
23 BY MS. ELLIS:
() 24 G And Mr. Hamilton, did you prepare a statement 25 l of your educational and work background for use En these i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
- . . _ =
348G 11-7 ) proceedings? I 2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 A Yes, I did.
Os/ All right.
4 G And is it attached to the back of e 5 your testimony and marked as CASE Exhibit 653-A?
E N
h 6 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
R R 7 A Yes, it is.
E j 8 G All right. And are there other attachments to d
d 9 your testimony?
$ 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 jB 11 A Yes, there are.
j 12 G And.are those attachments as follows, marked 13 CASE Exhibit 653-B, the March 25th, 1982 letter from the l$ 14 U. S. Department of Labor; and CASE Exhibit 653-C, which 2 15 has also been marked as CASE Attachment 3, an 18-page g 16 document which begins, " Audit of Carboline," parenthesis, W
d 17 shipment to CPSES, end parenthesis --
E
{ 18 JUDGE McCOLLOM: Mine happens to be one page P
19 less than that because I'm missing Page 9 7.
M 20 MS. ELLIS: Oh, we can take care of that for 21 you.
() 22 JUDGE MILLER: Want to trade another one?
23 ; MS. ELLIS: Yes, sir.
)
24 '
, (_/ JUDGE MILLER: That's our own quality control, 25 l you see.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. I
3487 11-8' j MS. ELLIS: Right.
2 (Laughter.)
3 McCOLLOM: Well, I need to have that single f~
(s) 4 page, I'm sorry. If you want to tear it out of that one, e 5 that's all right.
A 9
j 6 MR. REYNOLDS: We're missing Page 7 also, R
M 7 Mr. Chairman.
M j 8 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Perhaps it's going d
d 9 to be necessary to supply Pages 7 for the various copies, i
o g 10 then, please.
E j 11 MS. ELLIS: All right. We'll.take care of that W
j 12 and get a copy to everybody.
I)y-uf
=
13 JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
h 14 BY MS. ELLIS:
15
{x G Then CASE Exhibit 653-D, which has been also j 16 marked Attachment 4, titled, "CPSES Protective Coating M
17 Code Violations," a four-page document; and CASE Exhibit 5
18 653-E, which has been marked Attachment 3 5, an eight-page P
g I9 document, which begins "12-3-81, past ref." r-e-f, period; s
n 20 and CASE Exhibit 653-F, which has also been marked 2I Attachment 6, an eleven-page document.
( 22 i Does that constitute the attachments to your
, testimony?
() 24l BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
25 Yes, it does.
A ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
l 1
3488 11-9 i G All right.
(')
\~#
2 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Excuse me, Ms. Ellis. I'm 3 sorry.
O 4 MS. ELLIS: All right.
m 5 BY MS. ELLIS:
E N
o 6 % And was this testimony prepared under your R
g 7 direction and supervision?
s j 8 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
d d 9 A Yes, it was.
. 7:
o
@ 10 G And do you adopt it as your own in these 3
g 11 proceedings?
5 s j 12 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 13 A Yes, I do.
=
n 5 1-4 G And is it true and correct, with the corrections 15
{z that you've made?
j 16 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
s d 17 A Yes.
E l
{ 18 ' MS. ELLIS: All right.
A
{
M 19 We now offer the witnesses for cross-examination.
{ 20 JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
~
1 21 (The documents referred to 22 were marked CASE Exhibits 23 l 653-A through 653-F for
(%
kJ 24l ; identification.)
I 25 l JUDGE MILLER: Cross-examination.
l I
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3483 11-10 j MR. REYNOLDS: Thank you.
[D
(# CROSS-EXAMIUATION 2
3 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
O (s/ 4 G Mrs. Hamilton, do you have CASE Exhibit 652 e 5 in front of you? That is your testimony.
E N
6 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
R 8 7 A Yes, I do.
M 8
N 8 G Would you please turn to Page 21.
d d 9 MR. REYNOLDS: Mr. Chairman, may I inquire i
O y 10 whether these witnesses are offered as lay witnesses or E
l3 11 expert witnesses?
y 12 JUDGE MILLER: How are you offering them,
() d= 13 Ms. Ellis?
m g 14 MS. ELLIS: As lay witnesses.
15 Very well.
{m n JUDGE MILLER:
j 16 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
a d 17 G Mrs. Hamilton, the question and answer in the
\
5_
{ 18 middle of Page 21, the question is, "Is it your belief P
$ 19 that some or all of 4.hese matters or the results of these '
2 20 matters may jeopardize the health and safety of the public 21 if the Comanche Peak plant is allowed to go into operati'on? "
l () 22 And your answer is yes.
23 my smese1on 1,, .3,, 1,yemx expe,,1,e e, l ,
,() 24 work experience to make this judgment?
25 l j j j
. ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
~
s 3490 11-11 1 BY W2TNESS C. HAMILTON:
O 2 ? I don't have any expertise to make this 3 judgment, but I do know of things that I have mentioned (2) 4 th a/'
t could poss1bly matter to health and safety of people e 5 surrounding the plant, things that 'have gone on out there.
A ct ,
6 p. Well, would you describe what in your testi-a 5 7 mony you're referring to when you say that these matters j 8 could affect the health and safety of the public if the e ,
d 9 plant is allowed to operate?
$ 'A' g 10 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON: '
E j 11 A In my testimony 'id that .I,took care of a
j 12 documentation. I felt like what'if the documentation was 13 missing on items, how could you, yourself, prove that m
w 5 14 these items had been inspected and were safe to use if jm 15 the coatings -- how could you say that the coatings had 16 ever been put on the steel correctly or on the concrete i
z I7 correctly, and how could you say thatf it would be safe, h
e 18 3 that it would not fall.off. k c
w g
I9 n
G And so the worst case'would be that the coating a i 0 would fall off? '
I BY UITNESS C."HSMILTOU:
A Well, they could be penetrated by radiation.
23 I mean, radiation could leah, yes, I feel 1,ike.
l /~N 24
() G Radiatio.n could leak where? -
? < \
25 '- / / / l q
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. l
., . _ _ .- . . - . - - - - i
y ..~./ u e s
~
p
,; \
.: - .), ? ,.
, i"> . , tf - 3431 I; * .
=
- - x- ,
11-12 /~1 IBY- WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
~ -
V,r: -
4 l ,
I d i 2
' i A. Through the - ,the/ coatings could not hold l'.
il i -
/ p. i 1 . ,
3 the radiation'if there was an accident. - ,
t, = -- ' ~
. l ,, .
?,. -
^
t4 . /i 0 I s o n. ". . The_ coatings are appiled to restrain
.i - ,.
s 4s, 5' radiation'from escaping,shef, plant?
- ?" r j 3' 6 BY WITNESS C.iHAMILTON:
s
- it o f,l 7 A. # I'm really not sure,about that, because I'm
- i /,
n '
8
- n. 8, d not an expert, but they are, protective coatings and they 9, '!are used for a purpose.
I d ~ ; .! ,
y -sq , , a c j g 10 G Do you know the purpose?
! z -
"2 11 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
5 -
1 y 12' A. I think I just explained that.
]y E
13 l G That is your explanation?
= i l$ 14 I
BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
2 15 A Yes.~
16 Jas /ff N
d 17 l Bi i c
w 18 l~
g 19 a
20 21 O 22 23 O 24 25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
., _ _ _ -. . . = - - - _-. . _ - . .- .
3492
!2-1 1 Q And your testimony is that the health and ed 2 safety of the public would be jeopardized if the plant 3 operates because protective coatings could fall off of 4 items in the plant?
l e 5 BY WITNcSS C. HAMILTON:
h
@ 6 A Yes, it could be.
i R
$ 7 G On Page 22 of your testimony -- let me ask you a
j 8 to move to Page 24, the answer to the first full question d
d 9 on that page.
i o
@ 10 The answer starts, "I feel like..." Would j 11 you read that to yourself, please, to refresh your a
12
{ memory?
O != i3 8Y WITNcSS C. HiM1tTON:
l$ 14 A I've read it.
jx 15 0 In the first line of that answer you've used g 16 the phrase, " quality program." Are you there referring to w
17 the entire quality assurance program for Comanche Peak, h
x 5 18 or are you relating your comments and confining them P
19
, g strictly to paint and coatings quality program?
l 20 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
21 A. There I was talking about the protective I
() 22 coatings.
3
% I see. Do you have a perspective or viewpoint 24
(]) on the over-all quality of the Comanche Peak quality 25 i assurance program?
i
- I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
I
I 3493 2-2 j BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
() 2 A No, I've just heard rumors.
3 G Mr. Hamilton, do you have your testimony?
() 4 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
e 5 A Yes, I do.
U
@ 6 G What is that exhibit number?
E i R 7 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E 8
n 8 A Exhibit 653.
d o 9 G Sir, would you turn to Page 10, please? Are i
o
@ 10 you not there, sir, discussing the circumstances i
g 11 surrounding your termination from the Comanche Peak site?
k j 12 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
O s:'-
=
is 4. Yes, I em.
l$ l-4 G Sir, what was the inspection you were being 15
{z asked to conduct?
g 16 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
W d 17 r A We were requested to make an inspection off 5
{ 18 of the polar crane rail which was located approximately P
"g 19 105 feet above the nearest floor.
n 20 The only safety aspect they had at the time 21 was a -- it was either from a five-eighths to a half-inch
() 22 diameter cable to hook your safety belt off on to.
23 You've responded to the question. Thank you.
0
() 24 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
25 ' A All right.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
i 3494 l
\
2-3 i G You were to inspect what up at that elevation?
(]) 2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 A Inspect coatings on the liner plate.
() 4 G Patch repairs or entire painting?
e 5 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
A 1
9 6 A
@ I don't recall exactly what the inspection was.
er C
E 7 I never got up there to see what it was.
A j 8 G Well, would it have been a first-time painting, d
d 9 z, or would it have been --
O g 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
4 II
$ A It could have been surface preparation. It 3
3 I I2 could have been primer application, finish coat. I don't Q m 13 know.
14 0
You don't know?
z
{x 15 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
j 16 A No.
W I
=
G How was the plate placed at that elevation?
M 18
- Do you understand how --
9 19 M
BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
20 A How was the liner plate placed?
21 G Yes.
() BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
23 . '
- A You mean to respect from the polar crane rail?
(]) G No, I'm sorry. Let me try it a different way.
25 The plate that you were to inspect was already l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC. '
3435
$-4 1 installed?
() 2 BY WITNESS R.. HAMILTON:
3 A Yes.
() 4 O Who had installed it?
e 5 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 6 A As far as I know, CB&I installed the plate.
R R 7 G The craft?
A l 8 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
0 y 9 A Right.
$ 10 t G And do you know how they installed it?
5 II BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 j 12 A They installed it with a crane.
E
(]) fIS G Were ironworkers at that elevation working on 14 the installation of the plate?
15 BY WITNESS R.
, HAMILTON:
j 16 A From CB&I, yes.
M G Did they have scaffolding?
IO BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
?
19 j A Yes, they did.
20 G You know that for a fact?
BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
t
() 23 '
A Yes.
i G In both units?
() BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
l J
I A Yes.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
t
3496 2-5 1 % Your situation here involved Unit 1 or Unit 2?
O' 2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 A Well, it concerned both units.
O 4 % The termination.
e 5 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
5
- $ 6 A The termination had to do with Unit 2.
$ 7 G Sir, you refused to conduct the inspection 3
l 8 because you felt the area was unsafe?
d d 9 BY WITNESS R L.' H A M I L T O N :
i O
G 10 A Yes.
E
~
Q 11 G Are you a safety engineer?
3 I I2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
Oa15 =
13 A No, I'm not.
l$ 14 % Did you ever work for the Safety Department jz 15 at Comanche Peak?
30 HAMILTON:
d BY WITNESS R.
A h I7 ! A No, I did not.
=
{ 18 0 Who inspected the repairs after your P
I9 termination; do you know?
8 n
BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
2I A No, I don't.
Il 22 Do you know whether they were inspected?
(/ ,
G 23 )l BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
i
() A No, I don't.
25 Do you know whether scaffolding was put up?
G ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. -
~
3437 2-6 1 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
w 2 A I know for sure scaffolding was not put up.
3 0 Sir, on Page 12 of your testimony, in the
/O
(_j 4 middle of the page, you answer that, "If the present e 5 situation regarding quality and safety could be h
j 6 corrected, I really don't see any reason why it should not G
$ 7 get a license."
s j 8 Sir, are you confining your answer there to d
% 9 quality with respect to coatings?
z O
$ 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
ll A Yes, I am.
3 I5 12 % And to what do you refer when you use the
(]) 13 word " safety," occupational safety?
h I4 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
jm 15 A Yes, uh-huh.
E I6 I see, not health and safety of the public due G
A I7 to the reactor operation?
IO BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
C 19 8
n A No, I'm talking about the safety on the job 20 .
site.
21 0 Sir, on Page 21 of your testimony, I invite I
() your attention to the answer two-thirds of the way down 23
- l. the page where you relate a matter involving oil and
( () grease in paint.
25 i
- You state that this was in 1981, you believe.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
UdSS 2-7 1 Can you reaffirm that date now?
2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 A No, I cannot.
4 G Could it have been earlier?
g 5 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
@ 6 A. It could h' ave been earlier. It could have R ,
d 7 been later.
3 l 8 g Could it have been 1979?
O y 9 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON: -
z o
g 10 A. That's an approximate.
g 11 _ _ _
a
( 12 O i m i3 l 14 i E
! 2 15 l 4 --
g 16 '
us e d 17 18
=
19 M
20 21 Q 22 23 ,
i Q 24 25 '
I l
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3499 2-8 1 G You know it happened, but you don't know when?
(')
(, 2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 A Yes, that's right.
() 4 G Sir, I am going to show you an NCR numbered e 5 C-1729, which we are marking for identification as d
h 6 Applicants' Exhibit No. 138.
O 6 7 (The document referred to was M
l 8 marked for identification as d
~.
9 Applicants' Exhibit No. 138.)
z O
g 10 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
E II
$ O Please take the time to review the document, 3
d 12 s and tell me when you're finished.
=
() I Is this the matter you are referring to in E 14 s your testimony?
E BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
=
? 16 S A Yes, it is.
A 6 17 w G Is that your name in the middle of the
=
$ 18
= page, "R. Hamilton"?
_ 19 g BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
20 A I believe it is.
21 G This matter was reported by you --
gm 22
, (,) BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
23 A Yes.
es 24
() 25 G -- and the NCR was prepared by you?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
d500 2-9 l' BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
() 2 A Yes.
3 G And your dissatisfaction with the disposition
() 4 of this matter related to the fact that the paint was e 5 strained and not returned to the vendot?
h j 6 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
R
?3 7 A True.
A j 8 g Why do you think the disposition by straining d
d 9 was inappropriate?
i O
g 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E j 11 A Do you feel like you could strain grease a
12 through a cheesecloth?
Y
['N 3
- (,) g 13 g Please answer the question with an answer.
, =
l$ 14 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
g 15 A I can't give you an answer.
=
g 16 % Your answer is that you feel that you can't .
m 17 strain grease out of --
h
=
{ 18 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
l P 19 A I feel like that grease cannot be strained g
n 20 through a cheesecloth.
21 0 That's a fair answer.
() 22 So to your knowledge, then, the paint was 23 ?
dispositioned -- the paint in question in this NCR was
() dispositioned by straining.
25 l l
l
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3501 2-10 1 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
O
'w/
2 A True.
3 G And then you --
4 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
g 5 A Right.
0
@. 6 G Sir, we are going to show you now Applicants' R
$ 7 Exhibit No. 139 for identification. It is NCR No. C-1729, E
1 j 8 Revision 1.
d d 9 (The document referred to was i
o
@ 10 marked for identification as
$ II Applicants' Exhibit No. 139.)
a f I2 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
3 O g a
13 G Please take your time to review that m
5 I'4 document and tell me when you are finished.
.jx 15 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
6 A I am completed.
m G Sir, is that your name on this document in the e
f H
18 - middle of the page?
19 8 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
n 20 . .
A Yes, it is.
21 O It was reported by you?
() BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
23 l A. Yes.
t 24 i
(')
(, l G And prepared by you? ,
25 l l
l 1 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
e
. 3502
- 2-11 1 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
2 A Right.
3 G And, sir, does this NCR relate to the same O 4 paint which is referenced in NCR C-1729, which is e 5 Applicants' Exhibit 138?
@ 6 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
R
$ 7 A Yes, it does.
M
$ 8 G And, sir, what is the disposition of NCR d
y 9 C-1729, Revision l?
$ 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E II k A It's to be returned to the vendor.
?
g 12 Would you read the disposition on that G
(3/ j0 13 document, please?
l$ 14 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
15 A "Due to straining process not eliminating the T 16 g black foreign particles in the base, the carbozine 11, d 17 w base 9H-5381-M, has been returned to the vendor. Replace-x
$ 18
- ment material has been arranged."
H E 19 g G Sir, it appears, then, does it not, that an 20 attempt was made to strain the material in accordance with 21 the first NCR, and when that was unsuccessful, the paint f') 22
's was returned to the vendor?
23 ,
BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
^
24
((>i A Yes, uh-huh.
25
! O In light of this, sir, would you care to retract ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. I
3503 2-12 1 your testimony with regard to this matter and your
/ 2 dissatisfaction with the resolution of it?
3 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
O. 4 A I'm saying some of the paint was used in between o 5 NCR's. There was paint used.
h
@ 6 g In between these NCR's?
R
$ 7 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
s j 8 A Right.
e o; 9 % I see. Well, sir, would you look at the date?
@ 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
$ 11 A I'm looking at the date.
3 g 12 % You are saying that you prepared this first
=
O 3 5
m 13 NCR, Applicants' Exhibit 138, on October 2nd?
l$ 14 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
j= 15 A There were several mixes made that day.
10 g I see. Then you were -- let me finish the E
w N I7 line.
IO And then you prepared the NCR which is N
I9 Applicants' Exhibit 139 on the same day; is that correct?
8 n
0 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
I 21 A Yes, uh-huh.
I 22 G But you are saying that between the time you 23 prepared the first and the second, some of the paint was used?
l 25 ;
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3504 2-13 1 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
n k 2 A Yes, uh-huh.
3 g So, then, sir, you are saying that a quantity 4 identified in the second NCR is incorrect?
e 5 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E 4 ~
@ 6 A The quantity?
R
$ 7 g Yes.
A j 8 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
d q 9 A Well, it's containers, not volume.
z c
10 g would you expand on that, please?
h
=
k II BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
B I2 A Yes. The containers were returned.
N_
3 (G> j 13 g Empty?
I4 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
15
[5 A Two or three of them may have been half empty.
=
? 16
'j Not all of them were full, possibly.
17 yf G I see. Could that have been due to the attempt x
M 18
- to strain the paint?
9 E 19 g BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
20 A Possibly, yes.
21 g So it may not have been used; it may just have
/'N 22
(-) been strained and when the straining --
23 ,
i BY WITNESS R. HAM'LTON:
A Some of the paint was used.
25 l 0 bc you know that for a fact?
l I
1: ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3505 2-14 1 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
O 2 A Yes, I do.
3 g I see. How much was used?
[)
4 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
e 5 A I don't know exactly how much was used. I 3
9
@ 6 had been getting complaints from the paint shot that the -
R
& 7 oil or grease would not strain; and',:therefore, I..took a s
j 8 second look at it and did some more complaining myself, d
y 9 and the situation was corrected.
2 O
y 10 g So your position now is that the situation II was --
3 N I2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
() g 13 A But some had gone to the field and been used.
14 0 Can you give us an estimation as to how much i x 9 15 had gone to the field?
x y 6 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
W h A No, I can't give you an estimate on how much x
$ 18
- had been used.
A j 19 g So it's your position, then, that less than 20 the 300 gallons specified on the report that you prepared --
21 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
O 22 A
Certainly.
23 ' g -- was returned to the vendor?
O' 24 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
25 f A Certainly.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
I 3506
!2-15 1 0 But you can't tell us how much less?
o 2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 A. No, I can't.
l3 4 % Do you deem this to be a significant safety 5 issue?
g 9
@ 6 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
R C
E 7 A Yes, I do.
A j 8 0 Why?
d
- i 9 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
z o
10 A. I feel like grease and oil is a contaminant.
II
$ If it was used in the quality of paint, it shouldn't
, 3 l
g 12 have been.
o
- O s. i3 E 14 x
b l
5 15 E
y 16 us
@ 17 4
5 18 5
E 19 s
i l 20 21
- O 23 24 25 l i
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
L _ . . . .
3507
'3-1 1 g Well, wouldn',t you agree that your supervision l
edk}s' 2 also had that viewpoint?
3 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
(-
(/ 4 A Yes, uh-huh.
5 g I see.
'y I think everyone was in agreement, c.*
@ 6 were they not, that the paint should be returned?
R b 7 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
s 2 8 s A Right. After my insistence.
d 9
]". G I see. You had to convince everyone that it o
H 10 g had to be sent back?
=
!k II BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
d 12 3 A Yes.
I'T 3 kJ j I G I see. Sir, on Page 29 of your testimony, E 14 W on Lines 8 and 9 you discuss issuing an NCR on a matter 9 15 g involving grease in paint.
~
16 g Are the NCR's we just identified the NCR's 6 17 w y ou are discussing here?
z .
5 18
= BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
H E 19 g A Yes.
20 0 Sir, in your testimony on that p4ge, two-thirds 21 of the way down, you state that the final disposition was 22
('/T 1
\- to strain through cheesecloth.
23 ,
BY WITNESS HAMILTON:
24
(~)%
L A True.
25 i G The final disposition was to strain through f
- ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3508 i
3-2 1 ! cheesecloth?
l 2! BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 A The final disposition on C-1729.
4 G Would you repeat that, please?
e 5 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON E I 9 i
@ 6 A Yes, I'm talking about the final disposition
$ 7t on C-1729 NCR number.
M j 8 G Applicants' Exhibit 138?
O d 9 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
Y
$ 10 A Right.
3
)3 II G Well, I guess it's a matter of semantics. You p 12 are using the phrase " final disposition" to mean the
=
kh 13 final disposition of a specific NCR?
I4 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
15
{= A True.
g 16 G You don't intend to mean that it was the A
C 17
$ ! final disposition of the matter?
=
BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
P 19 8 A Not of the matter, no.
n 20 l I see. Sir, who accepted the mix when the mix G
21 came on site, with regard to this particular incident?
lh j BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
23 '
A Who accepted the mix?
24 i O !
l G Aren't all mixes witnessed by QC?
25 j ii l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3509
'3-3 1 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
r 2 A Yes, before they go to the field.
3 g Do you know who witnessed the mix here?
rs.
4l BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
5 A Most likely Houston Gunn.
g 4
@ 6 G Sir, did you apply hold tags to the containers G
E 7 when you issued NCR C-1729, which is Applicants' Exhibit 6
g 8 1387 d
q 9 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
z o
10 It says, "One-inch hold tag applied."
h A Yes.
=
II
$ g Was that the normal procedure --
B NI BY FITNESS R. HAMILTON:
r3 b l jI A Yes, it was.
E 14 y G -- when paint was found to be unsatisfactory z
9 15 2 by QC?
z J 16 j BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
6 1:7 A When an NCR was written on paint.
}
5 18
= G Always put a hold tag?
- 19 j BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
20 A Yes.
21 l G Sir, were there hold tags placed on each of
() 22 the 300 containers or just on the batch?
23 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:-
/N 24 l kl A I beg your pardon. There wasn't 300 containers.
25 There was five-gallen containers; quantity of 300 gallons.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3510 3-4 1 There was one hold tag applied as it reads on 4D 2 each NCR.
, ~
3 g Well, what does that mean? I'm having 4 trouble understanding.
g 5 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
N
@ 6 A This means one hold tag for the quantity.
- i
" 7 I see. Sir, are you an expert on paint and 4
9 8 s coatings?
d z BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
o F 10
- j A No, I wouldn't call myself an expert.
=
2 11 g 4 Sir, on Page 58 of your testimony, in the d 12 z second answer you made a change before you adopted it as
/,
h part of your testimony in this proceeding, and the change
$ 14 y you made was you changed the word "can" to "can't."
=
9 15 Sir, in the context of the questions and
~
.- 16 l j answers on that page, I don't understand the meaning. Would d 17 -
3_
you please clarify it?
E 18
= BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
H E 19 ii j A The meaning of "can't"?
20 g The change. You state that you can't give an 21
- approximate number, but then you give an approximate x _,/ 22 number.
23 l BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
t,) 24 A. On how many times I've put stop work orders 25
[ on paint?
i l
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3511 3-5 1 0 Yes. Would you read the --
2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 A Did I give a specific number on how many times
("\
U 4 I put a stop work order on paint?
e 5 g Well, sir, it's your testimony here you gave h
j 6 an approximate number.
R
$ 7 Why don't you read the questions and answers s
j 8 on that page, starting on Line 5. Just read them into d
d 9 the record.
i o
G 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E
$ II A All right. "How many times did you put
's j 12 stop work orders on paints?"
- E 5 13 Now answer.
m 0 Question.
I4 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
jx 15 A "I can't give you an approximate number."
d Ib "Just approximately."
w G Question.
h BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
5 I0 A "Just approximately."
19 j G Answer.
20 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
21 A "Four or five times anyway."
O
's d 22 You demand an answer; you got an approximate 23 number.
(')
(s 24 G It seems to me, sir, that your testimony is 25 '! inconsistent. It's not a big point. I'm just trying to ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
351
3-6 1 clarify.
r~~
2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 A I don't see where it's getting us anywhere.
O. 4 JUDGE MILLER: I don't think we need to pursue i
1 e 5 this further.
M 9
3 6 MR. REYNOLDS: I agree.
G
$ 7 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
A j 8 Sir, on Page 64 at the bottom of the page, G
d q 9 the question relates to your belief that the matters in z
C 10 your testimony may jeopardize the health and safety of h
=
II
$ the public if the plant is allowed to operate, and your k
N I2 answer is, "Yes."
E 13
% j On what expertise or expert opinion do you E 14 w base your answers?
BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
z 0
A I don't feel like I have any real expertise d 17 w in the matter, but --
z 5 18
= G Well, sir, would you --
H E 19 g BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
20 A -- I feel like anything that I've said in this 21 testimony could possibly have an effect on the health and
(~' 22 safety of the community. ,
1 23 ,
O Can you be specific?
() BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
25 , -
A Inasfar as the quality of the paint; it should i 4
}
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3513 3-7 1 be applied in a manner where it will be stable and won't 2 fall off. Otherwise, if it does fall off inside the 3 containment, it could clog a pump or it could stop operation (sJ3 4 of the plant.
g 5 g Your concern --
n h 6 JUDGE MILLER: Wait a minute. He hasn't R
$ 7 finished.
c' j 8 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
d y 9 % I'm sorry, were you finished?
z t o
g 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E II 5 A I'm finished.
3 I2 f G Your concerns are related to your knowledge
() b g
13 of paint and coatings as you have related in your E 14 y testimony?
x b BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
x
? 16 g A Right.
d 17 w G And nothing more?
x M 18
- BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
9 E 19 g A Right.
O Sir, would you agree that the purpose of 21 the coatings is to keep radiation within the plant?
22 O' BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
23 !
A The purpose of the coatings is to stop p
sJ 24 corrosion. It's used for ease of decontamination --
25 l g Is it used for --
[
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
I
3514
.3-8 ) BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
() 2 A --
during the operation of the plant.
3 G Is it used as a radiation barrier during
() 4 plant operations?
e 5 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
h
@ 6 A It's not exactly used as a radiation barrier.
R
$ 7 It's just for ease of decontamination. It will wash down.
j 8 Bare steel absorbs the radiation.
d c; 9 G Sir, on Page 65 of your testimony, the question z
o g 10 is, "Did anyone ever tell you or give you the impression
$ Il that you have to be more careful with this because it's 12 a nuclear power plant?"
I 3
() f13 And your answer is, "No, I have heard them say, l$ 14 .It will be done with or without you.'"
jz 15 Sir, do you not recall being trained when you E I6 first became employed at Comanche Peak?
A I7 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
m IO b A Yes, I do recall being trained.
E ,
I9 8
n G And you were not told at that time that nuclear 20 power plant construction was a matter that related to the 21 health and safety,of the public?
() BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
23 1, A Yes, I was told that.
() G Then do you wish to retract this statement?
25 You may, if you wish.
i
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
o 3515 3-9 1 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3(_
r') 2 A Why should I retract the statement?
3 g Well, is it truthful?
() 4 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
e 5 A I was told it was a concern.
] 6 0 Were you told --
R
& 7 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
s j 8 A I was also told that it was going to be done d
c; 9 with or without my help.
?
10 g But the question, sir --
=
II k BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 N I2 A Pertaining to quality.
=
() 13 JUDGE MILLER: Pertaining to what?
WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Pertaining to quality.
b MR. REYNOLDS: We have marked for identification
=
? 16 g as Applicants' Exhibit 140 a three-page document -- four-d a
17 ! page document titled, " Comanche Peak Steam Electric
=
5 18 Hamilton."
= Station, General Training Outline, Name R. L.
- 19 g (The document referred to was 20 marked for identification as 21 Applicants' Exhibit No. 140.)
O 22 BY MR. REYNOLDS:
23 !
i g Would you familiarize yourself with this (N 24
(_) document, please?
25 !
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
351G
!14-1 j BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Yes.
3 G Do you recognize it?
() 4 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
e 5 A Yes, I do.
A N
8 e 6 G What is it?
R R 7 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E j 8 A It's a general training outline. ,
G c 9 G For whom7 i
o
@ 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E g 11 A For myself.
B g 12 G Did you sign it?
1
() m 13 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
$ l.4 A Yes, I did.
2 15 G Sir, you say that no one ever told you to be w
a g 16 more careful because this is a nuclear power plant. Do you e
d 17 stand by that answer?
18 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
h P
19 A I've been told both sides. I've been told to g
n 20 be careful because it is a nuclear power plant, and I've i 2I also been told to cut them some slack, let them go, don't i
() 22 nit-pick.
- 23 I see.
G 24 Thirty seconds, Mr. Chairman?
(]) MR. REYNOLDS:
25 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
1 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3517 14-2 j MR. REYNOLDS: Thank you, Mr. Hamilton; no
() 2, f urther ques tions .
3 JUDGE MILLER: Thank you. Staff?
[)
s- 4 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Yes.
e 5) CROSS-EXAMINATION h
M 6 BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
c R
g 7 G Mr. Hamilton, did you ever bring any of your Z
j 8 concerns about protective coating s to the attention of d
d 9 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission?
i h 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E No, I did not.
{3 11 A.
y 12 G Why not?
=
() 13 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
h 14 A I had no reason to at the time. I was follow-
^
j* 15 ing my supervision's orders.
.'j 16 g Well, you state in your testimony -- you've '
A
- d 17 evidenced a high degree of concern about practices at i M 18 the plant.
l h t P i
{M 19 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
20 A Right.
21 g And yet --
you've also questioned whether 1
() 22 the resolution of these practices was adequate by the 23 i Applicants; isn't that correct?
24
() BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
25 ! A (Nods head.)
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. -.
3:11 s 14-3 3 0 In thatscase where you were questioning the ,
.Ov adequacy of the resolution, wouldn't it be logical, if 2
3 you felt that the Applicants weren't adequately dealing O 4 with it, to bring it to the attention of the' Nuclear e 5 Regulatory Commission? ~
E e>
3 e
6 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
R g 7 A Yes. There is a chain of command. I tried to 3
j 8 work it out with my supervision. Supposedly the, problems
'd y 9 were to be corrected.
S ,
$ 10 G I see. Mrs. Hamilton, did you ever bring any
_E j 11 of your concerns to the attention of the Nuclear Regula-a .
p 12 tory Commission?
13 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON: ,
m
$ l'4 A No, I did not.
g 15 G Why didn't you?
z j
. 16 BY WITNESS C. HAMILTON:
W N I7 A Because 1 didn't have any reason to. It wasn't 5
M 18 my place, and I didn' t know enough about it to bring it P
"g 19 to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
n
\ -
e0 4 g You're saying it wasn't your place.
2I BY WITNESS C. H AMI LTO'T :
22 A Well, I didn't have any specific item or rea-3 23 son to bring it to their attention. ,,
( 24 g I see. Thank you.
l MS. ROTHSCHILD: We have nothing further.
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3519 JUDGE MILLER: Thank you. ,
Any redirect?
(])
MS. ELLIS. Yes. Just a couple of questions.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
{}
BY MS. ELLIS:
e 5 h G Mr. Hamilton, wasn't there more than one time 3
e 6 f when paint was strained through the cheesecloth to remove 2 7 5 grease and oil?
j 8 N 9
"* " " ** "#" # 0"'
, M 10 A Not to my knowledge. There may have been, c
z j jj G All right. One other question. I believe you d 12 were asked if you were an expert on painting coatings, E
l I')
\i $
o 13 and you said that you didn't feel that vou had expertise; a
E 14 is that correct?
! 15 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
16 A Right.
k W
17 G All right. But you were a quality control in-d 5
$ 18 spector in the protective coating area; is that right?
=
5 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
9 19 n
20 A Yes, that's right.
I 21 G And did you feel that you knew your job?
22 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
(])
23 , A. Yes, I did.
I 24 G All right. Did you try to do a good job?
(]) !
25 l /
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3520 14-5 j BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
2 A Yes, I did.
3 G All right.
() 4 MS. ELLIS: I think I have no further questions.
e 5 Thank you.
M 9
3 e 6 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Dr. Cole.
e7 2 7 BOARD EXAMINATION s
j 8 BY JUDGE COLE:
d d 9 G Mr. Hamilton, are you -- I notice from your 10 resume th a t ' s Attachment 1 to your testimony under
_E g 11 " Experience," you have October '79 to present. Are you
?
12 currently working at the plant, sir?
l
=
0 l is BY W1TNESS R. HAM 1 tron:
l$ l-4 A No, this resume has not been corrected.
2 15 0 Okay. What is the date that you left the z
y 16 plant?
A b^ 17 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
5
{ 18 A March 9, 1982.
P g I9 G In response to a question from the Staff n
20 counsel, you indicated that you tried to work through the 2I problems that you observed through the chain of command, 22 and they were supposedly to be corrected.
('Nj BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
24 A. True.
25 G Do you know of any of those problems that ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
, 3521
- 14-6 j you considered to be important and significant to safety O
Ns that still exist and have not been corrected?
2 3 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
4 A No, I do not.
e 5 JUDGE COLE: All right, sir; thank you.
A N
6 I have no further questions.
R JUDGE MILLER: Dr. McCollom,
$ 7 s
j 8 BOARD EXAMINATION d
d 9 BY JUDGE McCOLLOM:
i e
$ 10 0 Your original complaint on the Carboline E
5 11 oil in the paint was recorded in NCR C-1729 identified as g 12 Applicants' Exhibit 138. You referred to this in your E
(^)
%s y 13 direct testimony, did you not?
m l$ 14 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
2 15 A Yes.
5 g 16 G When you prepared your direct testimony, did A
d 17 you know about NCR C-1729, Revision 1, the Applicants' 5
5 18 Exhibit 139?
. ?
{n 19 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
20 A No, I did not at that time.
21 G When did you find out about that?
( 22 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
1 23 ! A Just now.
(~% 24
(,/ G You state on Pages 24 and 25 of rcitr direct 25 testimony that after two negative audits on the Carboline i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3522
- 14-7 1
paint shop in Ohio, Jim Hawkins then whitewashed the report
() 2 and kept buying.
3 What evidence do you have that this is true?
I 4 -B Y WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
e 5 A There was no evidence. It was only my M
9 3 6 opinion.
R S 7 JUDGE McCOLLOM: I don't have any further s
j 8 questions.
d c[ 9 JUDGE MILLER: When you originate an NCR, z
O g 10 was it the practice of your employer to let you know what E
j 11 the final disposition of the NCR was, such as evidenced B
j 12 by the two documents that Dr. McCollom just asked you E
(]) j 13 about?
5 I4 I WITNESS R. HAMILTON: Yes.
jz 15 JUDGE MILLER: Can you tell us any reason why y 16 you were not given the information or shown the copy of a
U' 37 Exhibit 139?
E
{; 18 WI TN L'3 S R. HAMILTON: I was given the copy of g
19 I 1729, and most likely even Revision 1. I'm jus' saying n
20 that the Revision 1 had slipped my mind at the time.
2I JUDGE MILLER: Okay.
() 2 JUDGE COLE: So it's a standard practice for the 23 inspector that filed the NCR to be kept up to date on the
.itatus of that? The normal practice would be that you
(]) I 25 would have gotten that information and been aware of its i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3523
- 14-8 disposition?
)
O 2 wrruess a una1 tron: True.
3 JUDGE' MILLER: All right. Have you offered --
i . 4 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Excuse me, Mr. Chairman, I
. e 5 have one question that I was wondering if Mr. Hamilton 3
m i 6 could clarify. It seems to be something that's incon-a N .
g 7 sistent.
'. s 8
a 8 --
d 6 9 i
. c g 10 s_
g 11 3
d 12 E
O ix ia E 14 W
i $
2 15 j 16 l
as y 17 E
- 5 18
- =
+
E 19 s
n 20-21 .
- O 23 ,
24 O
25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3524 14-9 j MS. ROTHSCHILD: I believe that Dr. McCollom
(]) 2 sked him if at the time he prepared his testimony, was he 3 aware of Applicants' Exhibit 139, which is NCR C-1729, R-1;
(]) 4 was that your question, Doctor?
e 5 RECROSS-EXAMINATION M
N h 6 BY MS. ROTHSCHILD:
R g 7 g I believe, Mr. Hamilton, you stated that at the 8 time you prepared your testimony, you were not aware of d
d 9 that NCR; is that correct?
h 10 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
E E 11 A. I was not aware of the revision.
h d 12 G But doesn't the NCR indicate that it was re-3 c
(]) 13 ported by you and prepared by you?
h 14 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
2 15 A Yes. I had already stated that the Revision 1 5
- g 16 had slipped my mind.
W b~ 17 g I see.
5
$ 18 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Thank you.
[
$ 19 JUDGE McCOLLOM: Let me ask another question n
20 on that.
21 BOARD EXAMINATION
() 22 BY JUDGE McCOLLOM:
23 l G The resolution of the NCR's, C-1729, 24 I
()
%) Applicants' Exhibit 138 was known to you. You knew that 25 they ware going to strain this material, the oil -- e '.11, i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. 1 l
3525 14-10 1
the paint with the oil in it. You knew that?
() 2 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3 A Right.
('
(,) You saw this performed, but I don't really 4 G e 5 see a place on there that shows that you signed anything h
$ 6 about how it was disposed of. So you don't really do e
R g 7 that; is that correct?
E 8 8 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
n d
6 9 A No. I don't make any disposition --
$ 10 G You just are informally made aware of what j 11 happens to the NCR's then?
E j 12 BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
3
(-) $= 13 E I get copies of the NCR's after they're dis-
$ 14 positioned.
2 15 G Then it's your current feeling that you did get 5
g 16 a copy of NCR C-1729, Revision 1, that you actually did a
$ 17 get a copy of it?
5 l 5 18 ' BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
5
{n 19 A Yes, uh-huh.
20 0 And that you had just forgotten about it?
2I BY WITNESS R. HAMILTON:
() 22 A Yes.
23 JUDGE MILLER: All right. What disposition had
() 24 you asked us to make of the exhibits? I think you've 25 ( offered -- Well, go ahead and tell me what you're i
l 0 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
14-11 3526 1 offering.
) 2 MS. ELLIS: All righ t . I move that CASE Exhibit 3 653 with Attachments 653A, B, C, D, E and G -- I believe
/~T
(_/ 4 that's it -- and CASE Exhibit 652 and 652A be admitted into e 5 evidence.
h j 6 JUDGE MILLER: Any objection?
R
$ 7 MR. REYNOLDS: Object to a little bit of CASE A
g 8 Exhibit 653. Specifically we object on Page 59 in the d
d 9 z,
middle of the page to the answer which relates to the cost o
o 10 of activities at the plant in the painting area. That 3
II
$ objection continues from the answer starting with "Yes, it B
I was very demoralizing," through the end of the page,
() 13 and onto Page 6'O through the middle of. the page, ending 3 14
% with the word "either."
x C 15 h Beyond that, we object on Page 60, starting z
~
^ 16 g with the answer, "Yes," two-thirds of the way down the H 17 y page, "Yes, on loan to Brown & Root," etc.
m M 18 This relates to wages and the like and is H
j 19 irrelevant to the issues in this case.
20 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman, this again goes to the 21 morale issue which we discussed before. I think it's
/N 22
\_) very clear from the testimony and all of this that this is 23 '
what he's talking about.
() (Bench conference.)
25 JUDGE MILLER: We'll strike the first objected ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3527 4-12 1
Portion, which is Page 59, commencing with the answer, i 1
(~\ l
(/ 2 "Yes, it was very demoralizing," for the balance of that I 3 page, and for the end of the second complete paragraph
('_)j 4 on the following Page 60.
1 l
e 5 We deny the objection as to the material on '
3 N
$ 6 the last long answer at the bottom of Page 60.
R g 7 Anything further?
A 8
n 8 MR. REYNOLDS: Yes. I object on Exhibit 652 d
d 9 on Pages 22 and 23, starting on the last line of 22, i
o g 10 carrying over through the middle of Page 23 relating, g 11 first, to the use of drugs and the like, and secondly --
S g 12 JUDGE MI L'LE R : Where does that start?
5
() j a 13 MR. REYNOLDS: It starts on the last line h 14 of Page 22 through the middle of Page 23, the entire answer w
2 15 to that particular question.
=
y 16 JUDGE MILLER: That is sustained. We had A
$ 17 previously ruled on that subject as being not relevant, u
{C 18 and we grant the mo tion.
, s i g l9 , MR. REYNOLDS: Beyond that, we n'a ve no further 5
20 objection.
2I JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
() 22 Staff?
23 MS. ROTHSCHILD: We have no further objections.
24
(]) JUDGE MILLER: As --
25 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
l 3528 )
l
- 4-13 j MR. REYNOLDS: Mr. Chairman, we move that
() 2 Applicants' Exhibits -- '
3 JUDGE MILLER: Well, wait a minute. Let me
() 4 get the ruling on her exhibits.
e 5 MR. REYNOLDS: Oh, I thought you had received E
N 8 6 them.
e R
8 7 JUDGE MILLER: We-just ruled on ycur objections ~.
E
{ 8 New with rulings made to the objections stand-d d 9 ing, we now will admit them -- the exhibits that are z
O i g 10 offered by you, Ms. Ellis.
z
=
g 11 What are those numbers again? You don't need a
p 12 the A, B and C's.
=
.{} 13 MS. ELLIS: 652 and 653.
l 14 JUDGE MILLER: 652 and 653 with the attachments 2 15 will be admitted.
E y 16 (The documents heretofore marked W
g 17 for identification as CASE Ex-E
{C 18 hibits Mos. 652 and 653 were 6
I9 8
n received in evidence.)
20 JUDGE MILLER: Now?
2I MR. REYNOLDS: Applicants move that Exhibits
() 22 138, 139 and 140 for identification be received into evi-23 l dence.
/~ 4 JUDGE MILLER: Any objection, Ms. Ellis?
(_)/ :
25 l MS. ELLIS: No objection.
- ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
4
3529 JUDGE MILLER: Staff?
1 14r%4 MS. ROTHSCHILD: No.
2 JUDGE MILLER: They may be received.
3 (The documents heretofore marked O 4 for identification as Applicants' e 5 E
9 Exhibits Nos. 138, 139 and 140 3
e 6
{ were received in evidence.)
S 7 E JUDGE MILLER: Anything further of this g 8 Q panel?
9 MS. ELLIS: Not of this panel.
g 10 z
E JUDGE MILLER: Very well. Thank you. You 11 4
c are dismissed. l 12 E
(Witnesses excused.)
Og 3m 13 p g JUDGE MILLER: Call your next witness.
w b
g MS. LLIS: All right.
15 G
g 16 m
d l'7 e m
M 18 E
I 19
. s" I
l 20 21 >
() 22 23 25 '
l l
l ALDERSON REPONTING COMPANY, INC.
l._- _
l l
3530 15-1 i MS. ELLIS: There's one item here, sir, that --
hr-)
(> 2 JUDGE MILLER:. Now, we don't have much time 3 left, Ms. Ellis. We have a lot of work-to do. We're O
'ss/ going to have to interrupt your testimony, I'm afraid 4 f e 5 but we're trying to accommodate you and your witnesses.
R n
d e 6 We're going to have to allow time in which to R
8 7 go into these further emergency planning issues and M
8 n
8 scheduling.
d d 9 MS. ELLIS: All right. I believe that it --
i O
g 10 well, it's a little difficult for me to know how long the E
h 11 cross-examination may take.
S j 12 These other two witnesses are prepared to come
(~)
(s 5 13 back in September if necessary. We can start --
m 5 14 JUDGE MILLER: Do you have anyone else, any 15 other witness that you want to put on now, as an
{m j 16 accommodation to the witness?
M
@ 17 MS. ELLIS: These other two witnesses are the E
w j 18 only ones which we will put on together and --
C k
g l9 JUDGE MILLER: Well, together or separately, 5
20 are ycu then at this point of your witnesses --
2I MS. ELLIS: We can start, if you like.
( 22 JUDGE MILLER: Fine. We're prepared to go 23 ; right into scheduling. No, we're not insisting.
l
() 24 i
MS. ELLIS: Can we take a short break, about 25 f two or three minutes?
I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3531 15-2 1 JUDGE MILLER: Make it'five.
() 2 (A short recess was taken.)
3 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Let's resume.
() 4 Ms. Ellis, I understand that you have asked e 5 leave to remove the four photographs that were identified R
9 3 6 this morning from the court reporter's possession in order R
R 7 to make copies, in that correct?
A
$ 8 MS. ELLIS: Yes, sir.
d d 9 JUDGE MILLER: You may have leave for that 7:
e
$ 10 purpose, but we want to be absolutely responsible for the 3
)
's 11 safekeeping of those photographs and for the distribution y
12 to counsel and parties and the Board.
/'s 3 1,) 5 13 MS. ELLIS: Yes, sir, if we can have them, a
m i 14 we'll do that right now.
2 15 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. And the originals have
< =
j 16 to be returned to the reporter, because she's the custodian t
e l @ 17 for these files.
i j$
{ 18 MS. ELLI3: Yes, sir.
l P 19 l g JUDGE MILLER: Okay. Leave granted.
i n 20 Now, Ms. Ellis, we have some time consideration s t
! 21 here, as I have indicated previously. We wish to hear from
22
(,N) all of you regarding the issues that remain on the emergency 23 planning. We wish to set up a schedule on that for both l
() 24 i
discovery, filing, prefiling of testimony and the evidentiary i
25 l
hearing, inasmuch as that has been deferred, and so we want
}
I i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC. k L
3532 15-3 1 to -- we've given you the' dates that we intend to hold the O 2 hopefully final one or two weeks of the evitentiary hearing. ,
3 You have those dates, do you not?
O 4 MS. ELLIS: Yes, sir.
g 5 JUDGE MILLER: All right.
O
@ 6 And secondly, we may or may not have to do R
S 7 something about those documents that you have offered, s
l 8 and we would want to hear from you because we would ask d
d 9 you to consolidate them if you could, at any rate eliminate i
O g 10 duplication and the like, so we'll hear from you on that.
K h 11 Now, with these things in mind, we understand 3
y 12 that you have two more witnesses who are present, but it r' 5 k- 13 l' would appear unlikely that we would get very far into m
x 5 14 their testimony.
2 15 You have also indicated to the Board that the 5
g' 16 witnesses are willing to come back on the dates in
< w N 17 September, so I think that the choice.really is yours and 5
i I
18 the witnesses, because we're not going to be able to hear 3
P g~
I9 very much of their testimony because we have to adjourn 20 this portion of the hearing at 1:00 o' clock, and it's now 2I about 12:25, and we have these matters to take up with
() 22 counsel for the next contention, as well as whatever 23 , remains of anything of this contention.
hI 24 Now, is it agreeable with you and your wife to 25 ( return and to testify in the first order of business, if ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3533 15-4 i you want, on the September date? Would you prefer that?
() 2 MR. STINER: Yes, sir, in lieu of the facts 3
I feel that this will be quite lengthy.
() 4 JUDGE MILLER: Very well. I think it would e 5 be better. Thank you for coming. We're sorry. We just 3
n 8 6 ran out of time. But since for this and many other reasons e
R g 7 we're going to have to come back in September, why, we'll s
j 8 see you then.
d n 9 There was something -- Ms. Ellis, I had better i
h 10 mention, I saw in some of the testimony some mention about E
l B
11 subpoenas. A, I take it you're probably going to eliminate j 12 any comments, by witnesses or otherwise, on the Board's
=
actions regarding subpoenas,
(]) 13 m
g 14 Secondly, I think somebody has proffered jx 15 testimony, or something -- anyhow, out -- secondly, the g 16 reason that we declined to issue some of the long list of w
d 17 subpoenas given to you is because of our rules of practice, E-u g- 18 which you well know, which require the filing of prefiled P
19 written testimony in sufficient time to give all parties g
n 20 and counsel and the Board time to see it.
2I Now, we made an exception in the case of the 22 two witnesses that you're familiar with, who made the
(])
23 l limited appearance statements, and. so forth, but we i
24 l granted them the opportunity to testify without it because
(]} ,
25 l of the situation, not because we're waiving the rules, so ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3534 15-5 j therefore you will now have an opportunity to file pre-(! 2 filed testimony. It may be that you had to a do it rather 3 hurriedly, and I think there are certain sentences in there
() 4 that you better take out, but --
e- 5 MS. ELLIS: We just wrote that they said.
E 9
3 e 6 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. Sometimes what they say R
g 7 isn't wise or proper as testimony, because I don't think s
j 8 it's proper. But I think you know what I mean.
O d 9 You may now then have an opportunity to revise 7:
c G 10 or to file the prefiled testimony of these witnesses. Now, E
5 11 we hope that this concludes the matter. Anything further b
j 12 in the way of testimony is going to have to be the result 5
() $= 13 of a motion to the Board and a pretty strong showing of z
g 14 good cause.
l' 2 15 We made the exception in this case for reasons 5
g 16 well known, but this is not a precedent, it's no indication A
^
b 17 that the Board or any of the other parties are going to j
. 5 i
{ 18 waive any rule, so that means prefiled testimon has to be P
19 put in only if permitted by the Board on a showing of good h
n 20 cause.
2I Are we clear on that now?
() 22 MS. ELLIS: Yes and no.
23l JUDGE MILLER: Well, take the yes part of it.
-24 MS. ELLIS: All right.
25 l JUDGE MILLER: Thank you for coming, folks.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. I
l 3535 15-6 i We're going to excuse you. You're welcome to sit there
() 2 if you like.
3 MR. STINER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
b) s 4 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. And we'll look forward e 5 to seeing both of you in September. Thank you.
E n
3 6 Next, we would like to hear as to counsel's e
R R 7 and parties' position on the remaining issue on emergency
~
j 8 planning, and the like, both in terms of the scope of the 0
d 9 issue or issues and a projected or suggested schedule 7:
O
$ 10 encompassing necessary and as timely discovery and E
h 11 conclusion of discovery on those issues as possible, B
j 12 providing for the profiling of direct written testimony
()= 13' and anything else necessary to enable the Board to start h 14 hearings and conclude them in our final September sessions.
j= 15 Who wishes to go first on that?
g 16 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman?
A f= 17 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
5 18 MS. ELLIS: Excuse me. Mrs. Stiner is here P
"g 19 under subpoena. Does that --
n 20 JUDGE MILLER: The subpoena will carry over 21 if she wishes.
() 22 Do you wish the subpoena to remain in force, 23 j Mrs. Stiner?
() I MRS. STINER: Well, if my testimony is needed 25 and requested, it will need to be carried over, yes, sir.
i I
h i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3536 15-7 j JUDGE MILLER: Apparently it is; therefore,
(]) 2l you have been subpoenaed, we appreciate your obeying the 3 subpoena. The direction of the subpoena will continue in I
()) 4 force and effect from the date given on the subpoena, which e 5 is a request or direction from the Board to appear and R
N 6 testify, will carry over until the first week of the h
R g 7 September hearings.
3 8 MRS. STINER: Yes, sir.
l N l d d 9{ JUDGE MILLER: Very well. Thank you.
Y
@ 10 Well, I guess you don't need a subpoena, now, z
= i 2 11 j Mr. Steiner. Okay. Thanks.
I sj 12 j All right. How about the last contention?
(No response.)
(]) h= 13 .
h 14 ! JUDGE MILLER: Well, I'm engulfed by the E desire to have the floor on this one. Now, I could chose x
= 15 l j 16 f among you, in your eagerness.
A i
- b. 17 'i MS. ELLIS: Oh, you're waiting on us?
x ;
= <
5 I8 i MR. TREVY: The Staff will volunteer.
I I
$ 19 l JUDGE MILLER: All right.
3" I 20,I MR. TREVY: What the Staff would first like 21 to apprise the Board of is what is the status of our p
22 preparation of emergency preparedness.
{])
23 JUDGE MILLER: That's correct. It would be 24
{} l helpful to all of us, and the Staff certainly should be in 25 : the best position to give us the information.
I
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3537 15-8 j MR. TREVY: As yot know, the Staff received
() 2 some assistance in the emergency preparedness area from 3
FEMA, and we can give you some information to the status
(')
%s 4 of FEMA's progress with regard to review offsite plans.
e 5 JUDGE MILLER: First of all, what is the effect E
6 f the Commission's final rule in that regard, or guidance 7 to the Board? What is it that is required of this Board 8 to make findings that are necessary for low power operation ?
d 4
d 9 MR. TREVY: Well, I think the first question i i o
g 10 before this Board is whether you have before you a request E
5 11 for a low power application -- a low power license. My 3
4 g 12 understanding is that you don't have one before you as of x .
13 this moment.
(])
l$ 14 JUDGE MILLER: I don't really know. Now, if 2 15 we need to know that, we can find out, I suppose, from 5
g 16 the Applicant.
W
! d 17 Is that going to help your advising the Board E
$ 18 what the status of issues is? If so, we'll find out.
=
H
{5 19 Do we have an application for a low power 20 license?
2I MR. REYNOLDS: We don't, Mr. Chairman, have 22 That does not preclude
(')
(-
an application pending at this time.
23l the later filing of such an application.
I Do you contemplate it, for
{) 24 l 25 '
JUDGE MILLER:
purposes of looking into the scope of this issue?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3538 15-9 1 MR. REYNOLDS: I don't contemplate it.
A
(-) 2 JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
3 MR. TREVY: The Commission issued new f~%
() 4 regulations as of July 13th, 1982. They were published I
g 5 in the Federal Register and they became effective as of M.
] 6 that date, dealing with the issuance of licenses and what R
$ 7 amount of knowledge was necessary about emergency' pre-n j 8 paredness.
d y 9 Those regulations went to low power licenses, z
c
$ 10 and they indicated that in order to issue a low power N
11 license, first of all an emergency preparedness exercise B
12 did not need to have been accomplished, and secondly, that
, N t
=
() 13 no NRC or FEMA review findings and determinations concerning m
i 5 I4 the adequacy -- concerning the state or adequacy of off-15 g
x site emergency preparedness would be necessary, although d 10 they did indicate that the on-site status was necessary.
w I7 If there is not a request pending for a low h
1 18 f power license, then what is before the Board is a request b
c g I9 4
n for a full power or operation beyond five percent rated 0
power.
21 JUDGE MILLER: Okay. Now, Mr. Reynolds, we
/' 22
(_T/ understand, now, in establishing the schedule and the scope 23 l of hearing, and so forth, that your clients have not and i
() 'do not contemplate requesting the findings and'so forth 25l necessary for the issuance of a low power operating license, l
l t ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
i I
3539 15-10 i ,
that is, five percent.
I h 2 MR. REYNOLDS: Let me confer, if I may.
3 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Sure.
p j 4 (Conference between counsel.)
e 5 JUDGE MILLER: I think that's a good idea.
A n
3 e 6 Thank you. Now we'll find out one way or the other, and t
I s 7i then we'll see what has to be done, because it does affect E
j 8 our scheduling, no doubt about it, as well as the scope of d
d 9 the issues.
z~
c y 10 By the way, this rule was in effect -- is the 3
h 11 one in effect July 13, 1982, emergency planning and a
j 12 preparedness final rule, is that the one?
r 's 9 L @
13 MR. TREVY: That's the one I've been referring i
x g 14 to.
E 15 JUDGE MILLER: Right. And that's in the 5
j 16 Federal Register 47-30232? Oh, you don't have it.
d 17 i! MR. TREVY: I don't happen to have the Federal 3
c 18 Register, but I --
3 C
b g l9 , JUDGE MILLER: I'm sure it's the same one.
n 20
/ / /
21
(~') 22 ,
us l
23 '
c 24 i U _h g, fi 25 ,i
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3540 6-1 1 JUDGE MILLER: I'm sorry, I did not realize O
edss 2 you were ready.
3 MR. REYNOLDS: I have just been advised, for
() 4 the first, that Applicants do contemplate filing a request g 5 in the near future for a five percent license.
9
@ 6 JUDGE MILLER: I see. In that event, then, we R
$ 7 may be on Plan B rather than Plan A; is that right, 3
y 8 Counsel?
G d 9 MR. TREVY: Yes. That would mean that the i
O
$ 10 Board might still need to make some findings with regard E
$ Il to at.least ossite. matters, and I believe the new 3
g 12 regulations indicate that in doing those onsite matters
=
(]) 13 there may need to be some slight reference to offsite m
5 I4 matters.
u u
jx 15 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. However, it's more 10 limited in scope as to issues, is it not?
E w
d 17 MR. TREVY: That is correct.
E
{ 18 JUDGE MILLER: Let me inquire, then, of P
19 g Counsel, what is the extent now of the emergency planning n
20
- issues which you wish to have the parties and the Board 21 take up?
22
(/ MR. REYNOLDS: Well, I assume that if an 23 ' application for a low-power license is pending, nevertheless
, () the Board could entertain and resolve any issues' relating
! 25 i to offsite matters that come within the scope of l
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3541 3-2 1 Subsection (d) of the rule just stated.
O k/ 2 Looking at the contention itself, this is 3 Contention 22, it is our position that Items A, C and E 4 clearly can be resolved in September.
5 JUDGE MILLER: Which are those sub-issues?
$ 6 MR. REYNOLDS: A, C and E.
R S 7 JUDGE MILLER: Thank you.
A j 8 MR. REYNOLDS: Beyond that, we believe that d
c; 9 while Subsection (b) relates to matters offsite, the z
O 10 h information has been developed sufficiently at this time d
II 5 that that issue can be addressed as well.
a
" 12 E We believe that by the time we go to hearing
/~h $ 13
(/ g next in September, matters with regard to Subsection (d)
$ l <4 g will be available, and the facts necessary to adjudicate z
15
{x it will be available.
16 g JUDGE MILLER: In sufficient time to provide d 17 a discovery and the filing of testimony?
=
5 18 f MR. REYNOLDS: I believe so.
s E 19 g JUDGE MILLER: All right.
20 MR. REYNOLDS: And finally, with regard to 21 Subsection (f), I think that that is an issue that is 22 ripe for adjudication and, in fact, summary disposition.
23 ,
So I believe that the entire contention is 24 m ripe for litigation in September.
25
! JUDGE MILLER: Staff?
I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3542
@-3 1 MR. TREVY: Well, the only areas that the
() 2 Staff has some question on would be Subpart (f) and 3 Subpart (d), because we believe that we need substantial r
(_%) 4 input on those subparts from FEMA.
e 5 Now, as I was previously indicating, FEMA is M
9
@ 6 in the process of undertaking its review now.
R
$ 7 They've had submitted to them on June 17th s
[ 8 the state and local plans. The next step is for FEMA d
d 9 z, and its Regional Assistance Committee, known as RAC, R-A-C, o
b 10 g to submit comments with regard to those state and local
=
II
$ plans to the state.
3 That was contemplated to be done today. I
) I have no information as to whether or not that was actually m
I4 I
fx accomplished or not, but that was the plan.
9 15 2 Generally, there is a month's period thereafter z
? 16 g for the state to respond to the comments. Then there is d 17 3 generally another month's period for FEMA to come to what
=
$ 18
= are known as interim findings.
9 19 j FEMA has two sets of findings which it makes.
20 One is interim findings, which are the findings that they 21 make with regard to the status as of that time and the 3 22 ss ,/ advice'that they provide to us.
23
- They also have their own proposed Regulation (m 24
(_) 40 CFR 340, which talks in terms of a final finding that 25[ they make at some later time.
} ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3543 6-4 1 We have had a number of Commission decisions, O 2' particularly the TMI restart decision, in which it's been -
3 determined that the Licensing Boards can go forward based O 4 on interim findings.
a 5 In fact, I believe there is a recent Licensing 6
@ 6 Board decision in another case, the San Onofre case, in
- l. -
E S 7 May of this year, in which there is fairly extensive g 8 discussion of the use of interim findings.
O
~ 9 We project that we may not get those interim z
c 6 10 findings until the beginning of October, which is beyond 3
II the date that the Board has in mind for us taking up these h i d
d 12 z matters.
Ois g i However, there have been other cases, such v
m 5 I4 as Fermi and Susquehanna, in which where the contentions 0 15 b appeared to be somewhat limited in scope, it was possible
=
? 16 B
m
' for the Board and the parties to go forward, just based on F 17 d the testimony of the FEMA personnel and the Staff
=
$ 18
- personnel --
9 E 19 i g JUDGE MILLER: Has the Staff analyzed this 20 case?
21 MR. TREVY: -- recognizing that they didn't
()I 22 have formal interim findings at that time.
23 JUDGE MILLER: Has the Staff made any O 24 l l analysis of that possibility in this case?
25 1 j MR. TREVY: We believe that it is feasible, l I
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3544 6-5 1 certainly with Subparts (a), (c) and (e), and it may well
() 2 be feasible with Subpart (d).
3 One other matter I shculd mention is that in
() 4 order for the Staff to issue its supplemental SER, which
- 5 E
will discuss emergency preparedness matters, we are going 6
@ to need some further input from FEMA, and we do not N'
7 2
N anticipate that that supplement would be out before the j 8 September hearings; but once again, there have been d
2 9 3
proceedings, the Susquehanna and the Fermi proceedings, E 10 where we were able to go to hearing before the Staff had II a
$ issued this supplement, and the Board was able to make f=
a I2 findings based on the testimony that was pending -- that 5 13
(~]s = had been presented to it at those hearings.
=
5 I4 x
We believe that that --
j m
15 JUDGE MILLER: Well, what's the Staff's E I0 w recommendation?
h x
MR. TREVY: Well, we believe that that would
$ 18 H
be appropriate in this case, too, based on our review, 19 8 certainly, of Subparts (a),
n (c) and (e).
20 JUDGE COLE: Mr. Trevy, are you saying the 21 Staff would be prepared to come forth with testimony prior
/D to the SER?
tu) !
i i
MR. TREVY: Supplement to the SER.
fg 24 U JUDGE COLE: Supplement to the SER.
25 l ,
I MR. TREVY: Yes.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3545 4-6 1 JUDGE MILLER: 'For the September hearings?
I 2 MR. TREVY: Yes.
^
3 JUDGE MILLER: All right.
O 4 Ma. rREvY: certein1r en those eusgeres.
-y 5' We'd like to reserve the right to inform the Board further 9
@ 6 as to the other subparts as we find out the information R
S 7 we ~ are collecting on those.
7.
[ 8 JUDGE MILLER: What were the subparts now that d
d 9
- z. the Staff believes it could come forward on?
C G 10 t
MR. TREVY: (a), (c) and (e), (e) as in
( $
kI is Edward.
kI JUDGE MILLER: All right.
13 E 14 x
2 15 g 16 us
!$ 17
)
$ 18 19 A
20 21 0
23 ,
I O .
25 ;
I 1
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3546 17-1
- JUDGE MILLER
- M s'. Ellis --
() 2 MR. TREVY: I believe one other question that 3 y u ve asked is what sort of schedule should this testimony
() 4 be filed. We believe that certainly it should be pre-e 5 filed testimony, and we believe that it should be in the 3
N e 6 hands of the parties 15 days before the hearings begin.
R g 7 MR. REYNOLDS: May I be heard on schedule, n 8 Mr. Chairman?
d
= 9 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. But Ms. Ellis hasn't been z
h 10 heard on anything.
E E
< 11 Okay, Ms. Ellis. .
a e 12 Yes, you will be heard on scheduling.
F.
=
[]} 13 MS. ELLIS: We have no ' objection to going
{ 14 ahead when the schedule for any or all of this that can be 2 15 reasonably taken up in September.
5 g 16 JUDGE MILLER: You have no problem and no
+
y 17 objection?
. a
$ 18 MS. ELLIS: No.
'N 19 JUDGE MILLER:
h Now let's hear from all of you n l 20 then on proposed scheduling, in accordance with these 21 observations on the scope.
{} 22 MR. REYNOLDS: Consistent with the Board's 23 direction that the prehearing procedures move along quickly
{) 24 and be summary, we submit that backing off from September 25 '
13th, the first date for the next hearing, in weekly i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC. e
3547 17-2 3 increments might be a reasonable way to proceed. And it
(]) 2 would start with deadlines falling on August 16th.
.3 These are_all Monday deadlines.
() 4 August 16th, complete discovery.
e 5 August 23rd, filing of summary disposition A
N 8 6 motions, e .
k7 s
August 30th, response to summary disposition 8
n 8 motions.
d c 9 September 6th, prefile testimony.
i '
e g 10 And September 13th, comrae n ce hearings.
E 5 11 And by these deadlines, we mean to imply 3
y 12 received by the following day -- overnight delivery served c
Oi is = these a ee - -
lb 1-4 JUDGE MILLER: Ms. Ellis, do you have any com-i is ments or suggestions regarding the scheduling?
E
,y 16 MS. ELLIS: 1 think this schedule would be fine w
d 17 with us.
5 18 JUDGE MILLER: The Staff?
h P
"g 19 It's fairly tight, but we believe that by n
20 concentrating on it that it sounds feasible.
21 I notice.the p re filed testimony, Ms. Ellis, 22 is September 6th that it's i. n their hands, one week before
(])
23 i the commencement of the evsdentiary hearing or trial.
24 MR. REYNOLDS: In the hands of the Board the
(]}
25! next day, overnight delivery -- is what my proposal is.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3548 17-3 '
j JUDGE MILLER: I think that's a little close.
() 2 MR. REYNOLDS: How about' Friday, the 3rd?
3 JUDGE MILLER: We'd like to have it in our 4 hands by the 3rd. However it's done -- hand delivered, if
([])
e 5 you want to do that, or overnight if you want to take the 3
N d 6 day before.
o R
g 7 What would that date be?
E j 8 MR. REYNOLDS: Sep,tember 3rd.
d e d 9 JUDGE MILLER: Have it in the hands of the i
O g 10 Board and the parties -- Okay. The prefiled tes timony 3
g 11 should be in the hands of the Board by the 3rd of B
j 12 September, by whatever method you choose.
5 13 MR. TREVY: Judge Miller, the Staff believes
(]}
! 14 that that schedule is feasible, certainly as to A, C and 2 15 E.
g 16 As I have~ mentioned before, we'd like td advise w
d 17 you as to whether we'll be able to do it with regard to h I8 the other subparts.
C 6
g I9 JUDGE MILLER: Yes, I think you will have to.
M 20 Can you give us dates now by which you can 2I advise us, or does that await the occurrence of events?
22
(} MR. TREVY: We need to consult with FEMA and 23 other --
24 JUDGE F1 ILLER: Well, you will do it as
{]) ,
~
25 l expeditiously as you can, I know.
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3549 17-4 j MR. TREVY: Yes.
() 2 JUDGE MILLER: I think that's the most we can 3 ask or expect, and I d o n t think we can try to crank in
() 4 dates because you wouldn't know.
e 5 Okay.
A N
e 6 Well, then-the scheduling that the Board will R
g 7 now approve will now be'the evidentiary hearing, as previous ly 3
8 N
8 announced, starting the week of September 13 and, continuing- ,
d
- d 9 until the issue and the testimony is taken. We will be i
o G 10 arranging, at any rate, for hearing facilities for the z
g 11 following week, the week of September 20th.
3
[ 12 To that end, we will then direct that discovery .
5
(]) 13 shall be completed by August 16; that summary disposition
! l-4 motions shall be filed not later than August 2 3'; that 2 15 responses to summary disposition motions shall be filed 5
y 16 by August 30; and that prefiled testimony shall be in the w
g 17 hands of the Board and the parties by September 3, 1982.
E
{C 18 Is this -- -
8 19 MR. TREVY: I'have one last question. I'd g
n 20 like to have discovery completed clarified. Does that 21 mean that all of the answers are provided by that date,
() 22 or does that mean that that -- That's the way I have 23 understood it.
() JUDGE MILLER: Yes. That means discovery 25 l completed. It means ~that the r e s p o r.s e s , whatever they may 1
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
l
3550 3
be, are filed, which:means that you have to back off with j{} 2 interrogatories if-you're going to have answers in the 3 hands within the period established by our rules, for
() 4 example.
e 5 MR. TREVY: Exactly.
A n
6 JUDGE MILLER: And that also depositions shall h
G g 7 be taken and completed by that date. It means requests E 8 for admission and the time given by the-rules shall be M
d d 9 filed in sufficient time in advance of that,date to permit i
$ 10 the conclusion of that matter.
E 5 11 Request for production and examination of 3
d 12 documents -- I guess I mentioned this.
E c
(]) 13 Whatever the scope of discovery in all.of its l5 14 myriad ramifications, we want to have completed, which 9 15 means that you must go out in the time that the rules g 16 provide.for the other party to furnish it, in advance of M
- b^ 17 the date of completion.
M M 18 *
= '
, 19 5
20 21 %
22
(:)
23 24
()
25 '
! ALDERSON REPORTING, COMPANY. INC.
3551 D-1 1 JUDGE MILLER: That means the discover completion 9d ( ) 2 date as projected is the 16th, that discovery, for example, 3 that has a ten-day period, is going to mean pretty fast 4
~
(]) action.
e 5 MS. ELLIS: Mr. Chairman.
E 9
@ 6 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
G 8 7 MS. ELLIS: Based on past experiences in s
j 8 proceedings's.uch as this, I think it would be very helpful d
q 9 if we could set a specific time for those dates.
z o
G 10 For instance, the date that the last set of 3
~
h II interrogatories could be filed and so forth.
s f I2 JUDGE MILLER: All right. We have to go
() 13 through, then, all of the discovery; it's more than one 14 aspech.
m 15 h Interrogatories would be fourteen days'for z
E I0 example;' motions, ten days; motions for summary disposition, A
I7 I what well twenty plus one.
h m
' 5 18
- There are all sorts of times built into the 19 j
rules.
O Has anybody checked it out to see what the
! 21 time intervals are? It is pretty close on the 16th; l
() I guess that's what bothers me a little bit on that.
23 In fact, we are inclined to extend the
' 24 completion of discovery beyond the 16th date in order to
- I 25 accommodate the filing and in order to get the returns in.
, ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
i
3552 8-2 1 Does anybody have any suggestions 3
() 2 MR. REYNOLDS: Mr. Chairman, I think that the 3 propriety of the date of the 16th really depends on how
(]) 4 extensive discovery will be.
~
5 If discovery is limited, I think the deadline g
4
@ 6 is reasonable. For example, if interrogatories'could be R
b 7 served by the parties on August 6th --
3 j 8 JUDGE MILLER: How many days is that from 4 ,
- 9 today?
5.
10 h MR. REYNOLDS: That's a week from today.
n
!k JUDGE MILLER: That's pretty fast. You've d 12
,z just gone through a week-long hearing. I don't think 9
() that's reasonable.
s E l-4 y MR. REYNOLDS: Then I agree with you. I don't x
9 15 E
m see how we can meet the 16th.
j 16 JUDGE MILLER: 'All right. Then let's extend d 17 l w
m the time for completion of discovery.
M 18
= MR. REYNOLDS: How about the 23rd?
9
. j 19 JUDGE MILLER: I think so.
20 Let's revise the schedule to provide that 21 instead of August 16th for the completion of discovery, 22 Os it shall be August the 23rd.
23 l We don't see why we couldn't keep the same date
() 25 i for the filing of summary disposition motions.
l MR. REYNOLDS: I agree.
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
. 3553 8-3 1 JUDGE MILLER: So I'll keep both dates
() 2 August the 23rd, and the responses would be August the 3 30th, and prefiled testimony September 3.
() 4 This is subject now to any additional issues e 5 that may be cognizabl'e, as the Staff will advise us.
A 9
@ 6 ,,Anything further?
R
$ 7 Go ahead, Ms. Ellis.
s
[ 8 MS.'ELLIS: All right. Would that mean, then, d
c} 9 that the last date for filing interrogatories would be z
C g 10 the 13th?
- z
=
II JUDGE MILLER: Interrogatories are 14 days, Q
k N 12 a'r e n ' t they? Subtract 14 from 23 as being the last day 5
() 13 I to respond, and be sure it's not a Sunday, and you can b I4 figure it out by a calendar.
2 15 MS. ELLIS: That would be the 9th.
m E I0 A
JUDGE MILLER: We are just speaking of dates I7 of completion, and the rules give certain provisions, h
m
{c 18 and so keep those in mind when you file.~
s I9 n
8 We are going to shorten the time for request 20 of production of documents, and make that the same as 2I interrogatories, 14 days.
() We recommend that'any requests for production 23 ' of documents be filed early so we can find them and have
- the occasional dispute resolved, and all that sort of
(])
< 25 thing.
! ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3554 8-4 1 MR. REYNOLDS: To be clear, Mr. Chairman, the 2 only date you've given us in this schedule which requires 3 documents to be served on that day is the date of September s
() 4 3rd. The filing of prefiled testimony is to be delivered g 5 to the Board and the parties on that day.
0 3 6 As to every other date in the schedule, it is R
$ 7 overnight delivery, placed in the mail on the day of the 3
j 8 schedule specification?
O c; 9 JUDGE MILLER: That's correct, but overnight g 10 delivery.
II
$ MR. REYNOLDS: Yes.
W I2 JUDGE MILLER: Right.
o 13 MR. REYNOLDS: And my understanding is that '
14 the scope, as of today, for the hearing is all of x
9 15 2 Contention 22, subject to clarification by the Staff?
x 6
JUDGE MILLER: Well, let's use that as a d
a 17 working hypothesis, but that's certainly subject to x
$ 18 .
= revision if the Staff is unable to give us appropriate
- 19 g information in time to do it. We can't compel it.
20 It may be an optimistic assumption. If the 21 Staff can't, then we can't, and we won't be able to follow this schedule as to those items, which I believe will be 23l (f) and (d), possibly.
() At least (a), (c) and (e), the Staff apparently 25 '!
believes that there has been and will be sufficient filing of documents and analyses.
1 ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
3555 c ,
y JUDGE MILLER: What are the ones now?
(]) 2 MR. TREVY: .The ones that we are very confident 3 that we will be'able to meet all of these dates on are:
O 4 ^- c "a 5-
= 5 The ones that we are less confident about are:
M n
$ 6 B, D,and F.
o 7 JUDGE MILLER: As to which you will advise 8 the parties and the Board, one way or the other, as soon as d
d 9 you see that you can.
i h 10 MR. TREVY: ,That is correct. .
a 5 11 JUDGE MILLER: We will have to adjust dis-12 covery and trial issues in that regard.
Anything further?
(]) hm 13 l$ 14 MS. ELLIS: Yes.
2 15 Mr. Chairman, we will have an opportunity --
5 g' 16 I assume, just to be sure I know what's going on -- to w
-d 17 take depositions from witnesses which the utility plans to 5
} 18 bring forward in rebuttal, will we not?
A
$ 19 JUDGE MILLER: Yes.
M "
20 MS. ELLIS: All right. Could we be supplied 21 with a listing of that?
22 q} JUDGE MILLER: I think Mr. Reynolds will give 23 you that information.
24 MR. REYNOLDS: Sure.
25 JUDGE MILLER: He will, and you may, yes.
i l
i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
19-2 3556 j MS. ELLIS: All right. Thank you.
() 2 If we have any problems with anyone coming for-3 ward voluntarily with the depositions, we could then request
() 4 subpoenas from the Board; is that correct?
I e 5 JUDGE MILLER: Yes. It's not just automatic.
i 9
8 6 You have to make some appropriate showing.
t-
- N
$ 7 I would say that in the case of officers or n
I l 8 employees of the Applicants, there won't be any problem d
d 9 because counsel will produce them voluntarily upon request.
i z' h 10 Isn't that right, Mr. Reynolds?
6 j
3 11 MR. REYNOLDS: Yes, sir.
l l j 12 JUDGE MILLER: You don't have to worry about
() m 13 subpoenas there.
), h 14 Now if it's for persons that are not employed 2 15 or under their control, in that sense, then you might use j 16 subpoenas, w
h I'7 MR. REYNOLDS: And, of course, my answer is --
{ 18 within reason. We're not going to produce the chairman
! E g 19 of the board for a deposition, if someone else can --
l a
'20 JUDGE MILLER: Well, I require a showing, i
i 21 but, you know, we're no great respecter of persona.
4
() 22 MR. REYNOLDS: No, I understand, but I'didn't 23 mean to waive my --
1 24 JUDGE MILLER: No, I don't want to waive any-(])
25 thing either, but I think we. understand you.
I I ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
3557 19-3 j Anything f u r th e r ?'
(])- 2 MS. ELLIS: One further thing: -Will we --
3 Let's see. Just a moment.
() 4 One further thing that we need to discuss e 5 is another problem area which we anticipate from the pre-A N
8 6 filed testimony of Mr. Stiner is that apparently we will e
7 have the same sort of problem regarding the people who 8 have had statemen's t taken in regard to CASE Exhibit 289, d
d 9 which is the inves tiga tion report by the NRC of Mr. Stiner's i
o 10 alleg a tions .
E 5 11 It's CASE Exhibit 289, which is Inspection d 12 Report 81-12.
5 JUDGE MILLER: Has that been furnished in
(]) 13 l 14 discovery? Have you requested and gotten a copy from 5
2 15 Staff?
5 y 16 Staff, have you furnished that copy?
w 6 17 MS. ROTHSCHILD: I don't know. I don't know 5
{ 18 if Ms. Ellis ever requested it in discovery.
9 19 JUDGE MILLER: I'm not sure either. We're-M 20 trying to accomplish what we can do now.
21 Do you wish to request a copy --
() 22 MS. ROTHSCHILD: It's a Staff exhibit. We 23 have -- -
() 24 i
JUDGE MILLER: Then it's already in, Ms. Ellis, 25 MS. ELLIS: I'm not sure --
When you say it's i
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3558 19-4 j a Staff exhibit --
2 JUDGE MILLER: Apparently it has been marked
)
3 and offered as a Staff exhibit in this proceeding.
4 MS. ROTHSCHILD: Are you talking about 81-12?
(])
e 5 MS. ELLIS: Yes.
h 8
m 6 MS. ROTHSCHILD: It's Staff Exhibit 178.
R
& 7 MS. ELLIS: All right. Staff Exhibit 178, we 8'
~
n 8 have the same problem with the alphabetical lettering, and d
d 9 we'd like to have the Board direct that unretouched copies i
h 10 be provided on those as well.
E E 11 Apparently, they won't be provided, but we'd j 12 like to get it into the record that we'd like to have --
5
{} ' 13 JUDGE MILLER: All right. You're making a l$ 14 motion that the underlying documents, including the witness 2 15 s tatements , be produced to the parties and the Board?
g 16 MS. ELLIS: Yes.
W d 17 JUDGE MILLER: All right. I guess that's an 5
M 18 order.
k 19
- The Staff is going to produce the underlying a
20 witness statements and related documents with regard to 21 the report identified.
22 MR. TREVY: The Staff is willing to provide 23 sanitized copies , as we have done in the case of the 24 prior ones that we've supplied.
O I 25 l My understanding is that we do have some i ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
19-5 s
i sanitized copies available --
or which will be available
() 2 within a very short period of time, like ten minutes or 3 as soon as someone can get to their car, and we'll provide
() 4, I
those to the Board and to the parties.
g 5 JUDGE MILLER: All right. Provide --
You 9
3 6 will receive the sanitized copies apparently today. The R
$ 7 order to produce them unsanitized remains in effect. I s
j 8 presume the Staff is going to do something to resolve that d
C 9 ques tion .
z C
b 10 MR. TREVY: That's right. I think the record--
11 JUDGE MILLER:
$ It would be the same status --
B .
12 MR. TREVY:
N --
shows the views of the Staff c -
'3 O im end the neerd.
m
$ I4 JUDGE MILLER: Right.
2 15 MR. REYNOLDS: One more --
d I0 JUDGE MILLER: One thing:
A Now in the event I7 of these sanitized items until we can get a resolution h
x
{ 18 on this matter, or our order obeyed, one or the other --
P g I9 n
is it possible for the Applicants, assuming that there are 20 '
names of witnesses who are officers or agents of the 21 Applicants, designated X, Y, Z, etc., could that informa-() 2 tion be supplied as was done by Mr. Tolson in this pro-23 ceeding?
() MR. REYNOLDS: Surely.
25 i
JUDGE MILLER: -- if you can. Well, we may be ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
-- . .= _.
3560
- 19-5 j able to get to the same names on the same basis as was done here, pending a resolution of our ongoing order.
19() 2 3 MR. REYNOLDS: Sir, with regard to discovery,'
{} 4 I want to make it clear that the discovery schedule here
- y 5 relates to Conteintion 22.
1 e N
$ 6 Discovery on Contention 5 has closed.
1 2
N 1 g 7 JUDGE MILLER: Well, it's in accordance with 2 -
8 the existing schedule. However, there can be appropriate d
d 9 motions --
! i h 10 MR. REYNOLDS: Well, I'm not speaking of these a
i 5 11 kind of matters --
! t d 12 JUDGE MILLER: -- and of your rebuttal witnesses .
E
- =
13 We kept it over in that regard.
)
, l$ 14 She wants possibly some discovery of the wit-2 15 nesses that you intend to put on in rebuttal, and you y 16 agreed to give her the names and arrange depositions if
, 'A d 17 they were within your control.
! 5 M 18 MR. REYNOLDS: I though$ we were speaking of
, 5 i i
E 19 l the direct testimony on Contention 22.
M 20 JUDGE MILLER: No, I think that she was 23 speaking then directly of your rebuttal witnesses, whom
(~) 22 ; you have identified. '
us t J 23 l i Or if you have any more, tell her who those 24 are, and she wants to have the opportunity to take 25 their deposition.
i !
i i
- ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
- _ .-- _ - - . - . - - - , _ _ - - ----.n_, , _ , - , - , - , . , , . . .n...,,.n_,....., - , , , , , . ~ , , - - _ . , , . -
i 4 356?
That's why I told her to arrange it with i L' you in agreeable places, i 'f it's according to the person. ;
- 3 ,
e 4 If you don't --
you can't provide by agreement, t
e 5 then, of course, we'll have to ask for a subpoena. s 4 2
! 3
- e 6 - - -
, a 8
7 i R 8
I a 8 i d -
! ci 9 i i ,
C i G 10 i
z t E 11 t < l 4 is l j 12 i Ei
.- .g* 13 i
E 14 ;
j w
~
z 2 15
, w z .,
.? 16 s
ui
- d 17 '
s l l M 18
, =
- N i 19 8
n 20 l i
21 22 I 23 ,
i O 25 i
h l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
3562 B-1 1 MS. ELLIS: One further question.
2 There were certain items that the Applicants Ed{ )
3 referred to when they were cross-examining Mr. Walsh. I 4 was wondering if some sort of arrangements could be made 5 to either get or borrow copies of those so we could have g
9
@ 6 the benefit of those to --
R
$ 7 JUDGE MILLER: Well, what are "those"?
s j 8 MS. ELLIS: NPSI* design criteria, and there d
q 9 was something else mentioned, the method used to determine z
o g 10 the tensile force in the Richmond inserts, and the II
$ Richmond insert catalogue, which I believe --
B f=a I2 JUDGE MILLER: Would those be available 5 13 anyplace conveniently? I suppose they are'not readily J
- I4 available to laymen.
z MR. REYNOLDS: I don't think they will be x
in the corner library.
d 17 a To the extent that the material is not x
M 18
= proprietary and beyond our reach, why doesn't Ms. Ellis j 19 ask for it in discovery.
20 We would gladly produce it upon a request 21 for production of documents.
22 JUDGE MILLER: Yes, I think that would be fine.
)
23 !
j MS. ELLIS: All right.
24 l JUDGE MILLER: Very well.
}
25 Anything further?
ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY, INC.
- m_ _ . . . _ _ . . _ _ _ _ _ . . _. _ . _ . . _ . _ _ . . _ - . .__ _._ _ . . _ . _ _
3563 1
0-2 1 Will this tide us over till September?
j .
2 (No response.)
3 JUDGE MILLER: All right. The hearing is 4
4 adjourned. Thank you for coming, g 5 (Whereupon, at 1:07 p.m., the hearing was i 0
- @ 6 adjourned.)
4 j
$ 7 _ _ _ !
a i 8
e.
8 Y
ci 9
. :i ;
e o !
i G 10 E
i E 11 6 12 4 z 1 %
1 3 !
4 -
13 :
!,'O E w 14 l 2 15 !
n w i 4
d t
- e r l 6 17
. m l 2: k 1 M 18 i
! =
5
, 19 j n .
- 20 i r
21 i >
l a 22
!O 23 l
t 24 [
lO 25 ,
e ;
l i
l ALDERSON REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
MUCLEAR REGULATORY COMI4ISSION This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the
.f in the matter of: TEXAS UTILITIES GENERATING COMPANY, et al.
COMANCIIE PEAK STEAM ELECTRIC Cate of Proceeding: July 30, 1982 Docket !! umber : 56-445 50-446 Place of Proceeding: Port Worth, Texas were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the Commission.
Mary L. Bagby Official Reporter (Typed)
(
mw 64 -
Official Reporter S.gnature) e