ML061810057
| ML061810057 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Salem, Hope Creek  |
| Issue date: | 10/22/2003 |
| From: | NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 1-2003-051F, FOIA/PA-2005-0194, NRC-1165 | |
| Download: ML061810057 (54) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Interview Docket Number: 1-2003-051 F dl (a
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Location: Salem, New Jersey Date: Wednesday, October 22, 2003 Work Order No.: NRC-1 165 Pages 1-52 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 A Information in this record was delet!ed in accordance with the Freedom oi rnformation Act, exemptions "'*-
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1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 + + + + +
4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW 6 ----------------------- x 7 IN THE MATTER OF:
8 INTERVIEW OF' _,-7cG *Docket No.
~1 9 771;--
1-2003-051F 10 (CLOSED) 11 ----------------------- x 12 Wednesday, October 22, 2003 13 14 NRC Resident Inspector's Office 15 Salem Generating Station 16 Salem, New Jersey 17 18 The above-entitled interview was conducted 19 at 11:29 a.m.
20 21 BEFORE:
22 Special Agent MARK A. MULLEN 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 APPEARANCES:
2 3 On Behalf of the Witness, 4 CHARLES HESSLER 5 Of: IBEW Local 94 6 219 Franklin Street 7 Hightstown, New Jersey 8 (609) 426-9702 9
I0 ALSO PRESENT:
11 SCOTT BARBER 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I- -U-J 2 11:29 a.m.
3 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Today is Wednesday, 4 October 22, 3003. The time now is approximately 11:29 5 a.4. For the record, this is an interview o; 6 Can you spell your last name for the 7 record, sir?
9 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: You are employed at 10 the Salem Generation Staticp owned by PSEG. Are you 12 That's correct.
13 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: The location of 14 this office is NRC Resident Office. My name is Mark 15 A. Mullen. I'm a Special Agent with the Office of 16 Investigations Region I King of Prussia, Pennsylvania.
17 Scott Barber, a Senior Project Engineer, is also 18 present for this interview. Additionally,'
19 will be represented by Charles Hessler who is a 20 business agent of IBEW,Jis that-,c4rrect?
21 Yes, Local 94.
22 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Is it your desire, to have Mr. Hessler present here today?
24 Is it necessary?
25 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: It's your choice.
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%-----t
1 That's the way I look at it.
S-77 2 'I understand I would talk to 3 you, and if I needed any help I would get it.
4 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Let's take a short 5 recess here.
6 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter went off 7 the record and went back on the record.)
8 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: We're back on the 9 record. The time now is approximately 11:32 a.m.
10 Again, the question remains. Do you want 11 Mr. Hessler here present today for this interview?
12 Yes.
13 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Thank you.
14 Do I get privilege to 15 whatever is said here, not so much the tape but 16 whatever comments you have?
17 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Well, no, and I was 18 going to get to that right now. Let me just go over 19 this, and then I think I will answer your question.
20 This interview is being recorded. It will be 21 transcribed later. As part of that, if there is a 22 reason to come back here, which there will be at some 23 point, we can work out where you can, if you would 24 like to, you can make the request. We can arrange for 25 you to review your transcript if you so desire.
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1 However, you won't get a copy of it.
2 After an investigation, you can FOIA it through the 3 Freedom of Information Act. But you can't get a copy 4 of it until it's after. Again, you have to FOIA and 5 certain things would be taken out. Bottom line is you 6 can review it. You just can't make copies of it and 7 that sort of thing. Okay?
8 3 Oay.
9 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: The subject matter 10 of this interview concerns safety conscious work 11 environment at Salem, safety versus productivity, and 12 those types of issues. Do you understand that?
13 Ys 14 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Would you please 15 stand, sir, and raise your right hand to be sworn in?
16 WHEREUPON, 17 u . S J 18 was called as a witness and, having been first duly 19 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
20 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Please have a seat.
21 Generally before we get into the subject matter, 22 briefly, if you don't mind, a little bit about 23 yourself. Your date of birth and place of birth.
24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Your current home 2 address.
3 4
5 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Home telephone 6 number.
7 8 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Work telephone 9 number.
10 11 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Is there any 12 education or military that you would like to highlight 13 for the record? If not, could you please explain 14 briefly your nuclear power industry experience and 15 then more detail in the last three to five years of 16 what you have been doing?
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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2 I hope that adds up.
3 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Absolutely.
4 That's ball park.
5 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: As we started this 6 interview, I mentioned safety conscious work 7 environment here at Salem and safety versus 8 productivity. Hopefully that got you thinking. I 9 told you a little bit about that before the interview 10 today. I'm sure there are some things that you would 1i like to get into. We're going to give you the 12 opportunity to get into that.
13 At the same time, there are just some 14 general questions I would like to ask you first. That 15 will start you down that line, and then go ahead and 16 run with it. Let me start off here with some general 17 questions. Have you ever participated in any formal 18 or informal surveys regarding the safety culture at 19 Salem or Hope Creek?
20 Yes.
21 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Can you tell me 22 when approximately?
23 jJ We just did one that I 24 participated in within the last month. I don't think 25 the results are out yet, but I was handing out the NEAL R. GROSS 4/ /(
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1 surveys. I did participate in it.
2 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Had you 3 participated in the past in that type of program?
4 jNo.
5 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Any reason why?
6 Because I didn't feel they 7 listened to what we had to say, and I didn't feel that 8 they got back to us on the information we provided.
9 I felt it was very ambiguous the way they asked the 10 questions. You could interpret it any way you wanted, 11 so I didn't think there was any value added to what 12 they did.
13 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: When you say 14 "they," you are just speaking of management in 15 general.
16 Management in general, 17 surveys in general. If they are not done well, you 18 can pretty much interpret them any way you want. You 19 ask about a supervisor. Which supervisor? I would 20 rather you talk to me and ask me questions, and I will 21 tell you what my field is and you go that way. I'm 22 not a survey person.
23 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: What changed more 24 recently to give you the invite to participate?
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1 We actually talked about doing surveys. I gave them 2 the do you want the working man's perspective on why 3 we don't do surveys because they didn't have a good 4 participat4on. I told them exactly what I told you.
5 I said I'll show you that they can participate. I 6 will try to get you 100 percent of the Salem NCOs and 7 NEOs to participate in the survey. One time only I 8 will ask them to do that just to show you that we can 9 participate and that's not the problem, and I did 10 that.
11 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Was there 12 significant input from the NEOs? Did most participate 13 from your knowledge?
14 I'll tell you right niowI had 1.5 100 percent participate, but I did not review them.
16 I just handed them in the other day.
17 MR. BARBER: Can I ask a question on this?
18 On the surveys, is there any open-ended questions?
19 Are they all multiple choice, five answers or 20 something?
21 I believe there are ten 22 questions on it. I have a copy of them. They are in 23 my bag if you would like to look at them later.
24 MR. BARBER: Yes, we can look at them 25 later.
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1 They are just general 2 questions in nature from strongly disagree to strongly 3 agree to neutral. I did not look at what anybody 4 filled out. They were all anonymous. I saved copies 5 of everyone that did them so when I do see the 6 results, I can look back and see how operations fit 7 into it. That's just what I do.
8 MR. BARBER: I want to make sure I 9, understand what was done. The survey really was what 10 you describe as multiple choice. Was there anywhere 11 where they could describe concerns or issues that they 12 may have had?
13 There was a comments section 14 on the bottom, yes. It.said "Write any comments you 15 may have on the bottom. Use the back for 16 continuation." As a matter of fact, one of them had 17 continuation on it because I was copying it and I saw 18 the back so I had to run another copy and do it two-19 sided.
20 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: On the survey, did 21 you have the opportunity to review it? Were you 22 allowed to review it, or were you supposed to just be 23 a conduit to get the information?
24 i I'm sure I can review it. I 25 did not review them yet. I do have copies of them.
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1 No one's name is on them. The only thing I verified 2 is that it was all checked and represented. I threw 3 PS ops on the top of mine, not the ones they handed 4 in. One guy had written Salem ops on the top. I was 5 going to do that on all of them, but I thought that's 6 not a good idea. It's probably a way to do it in the 7 future, but why should I isolate one department? So 8 I handed them in as is. I have all the ops ones in my 9 bag.
2.0 MR. BARBER: Thanks.
11 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: You said you are a 12 F ' W is that correct?
13 That's correct.
14 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Were you asked to 15 be a member of the 16 NOW to we recently-17 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: You specifically.
18 Me?
19 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Yes.
20 . No, I was not specifically 21 asked.
22 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: How did you become 23 a member?
24 : We do off-shift bids here in 25 operations and for various departments. In-house we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
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1 do a pre-stage or a team or a training instructor.
2 They had one that was called No 3 one had bid the position. We didn't want to lose the 4 position, so it was myself and ,
6 We talked and said one of us should 7 probably take this. We don't want to lose the 8 position, and it will give us the opportunity to work 9 on things on day shift too. I said if you want it you 10 can have it. I'll give you first crack at it. He 11 didn't want to drive here five days a week because it 12 was five eights. So I said I'll do it then. That's 13 how I did that.
14 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Earlier, and 15 correct me if I'm wrong, I thought you mentioned 16 something about I wanted to show or we wanted to show 17 NEOs can participate. Who specifically did you want 18 to show?
19 Just the committee in 20 general. It ranged from union to management 21 employees. I don't even know who it was said don't 22 say 100 percent because you won't get it. I didn't 23 think I would get 100 percent, but I did. It required 24 me calling two people at home. I told them you are 25 not going to get paid for this.
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1 It was just a shame not to get 100 percent 2 when two people are out. They were out on leave. One 3 had a baby. I asked how everything was and asked if 4 he would answer ten questions for me. If you don't 5 want to, you are not obligated to do it in any way.
6 That's how I got the last two.
7 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Again, for the 8 record, no official feedback yet on that survey, true?
9 I did not get any official 10 feedback on that, nor did I read anything yet.
11 PARTICIPANT: There was something that was 12 out yesterday. It was regarding a survey, but I don't 13 know if it was this survey.
14 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: At some point, I 15 would like to get f*rom your own personal perspective 16 and experience, but at the same time again, I'm just 17 speculating here a little bit. Maybe as a member of 18 *Jpeople would come to you more often, 19 some of the other NEOs. I'm not sure. Basically this 20 next question I would like for you to take it all into 21 perspective. It's an open-ended question.
22 4 J_ That's the ones I like.
23 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: The ball is going 24 to be in your court. What is your assessment of the 25 safety culture at Salem/Hope Creek? Are we just going NEAL R. GROSSIf COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 7&
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1 to be talking about Salem with you?
2 In fairness, you pretty much 3 have to just do Salem. I really can't give you a good 4 perspective on Hope Creek.
5 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: I will take Hope 6 Creek out of my questioning. Again, what is your 7 assessment of the safety culture at Salem? Again, 8 take your perspective and if there are others that 9 come into this.'
10 Z:. I don't think it's where it 11 needs to be. They created the safety councils. I 12 have been on them in the past and got very frustrated 13 because all you do is sit around and talk about what 14 you are going to do and nothing really gets 15 accomplished.
16 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: For example?
17 ] You just talk about doing 18 things and correcting them, and that seems to be all 19 you do. You talk about getting things fixed.
20 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Is that like 21 looking at condition reports that have been written 22 and those types of things?
23 It's anything. I think 24 safety is better now because we have the teams in 25 place, and they are sticking together longer than they NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS A0 76 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 ever have. But to be perfectly honest with you, if 2 someone like myself or M if we don't drive 3 them home, they don't go anywhere. The process 4 doesn't work itself.
5 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Explain "drive them 6 home."
7 1 You have to bird dog people 8 to get things done. You have it. Now, what are you 9 doing? I need help with this.
10 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: You have to follow 11 up on things, right?
12 _ You have to follow up.
13 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: That's everybody's 14 job probably.
15 I would like to think if I 16 raised an issue it would work through the process, but 17 unfortunately it does not work that way. When I drive 18 it home, I go through the chain of commands. I do 19 emails. I do paper trails. I emailed you here on 20 this document here. I have that stuff that I keep if 21 that's what I do. I write notifications saying write 22 back. Has this been closed? No, it hasn't been 23 adequately closed.
24 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: So when things have 25 been documented through emails or following up with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 phone calls on people, from your perspective, you are 2 saying it's gotten better now but only if you do these 3 extra things that you are talking about.
4 k That seems to be the only way 5 you have a whole lot of success. Once in a while you 6 will get someone that owns something that will do it.
7 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Ownership all the 8 way through. They don't need to be called again or 9 pushed again with an email or something.
10 Yes, I mean everybody is 11 overloaded. Now that you do that and people can see 12 that you can do that, you become a dumping ground.
13 The guys say I have a safety concern, and they go to 14 me. I say did you follow the process. Come to me if 15 you wrote a notification or did it and you can't get 16 it done. I'll try to help you along.
17 But it's getting overwhelming now. It 18 gets very frustrating. You get to the point where you 19 want to get out of it because it's just too 20 burdensome. It's a hassle. It's not the optimum 21 system. There are good people, and there are bad 22 people; There are people that will say that they will 23 do something and don't. That's very generalized, but 24 we have a long way to go.
25 You have access to my stuff. Read through NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 it. I get told I bring emotions into it a little too 2 much. Sometimes I do. It gets to that point to where 3 it wasn't the first time I raised. It's just 4 something I have to work on.
5 MR. BARBER: Can you think of anything 6 recent that's been on your mind?
7 0 -N TP light procedure we have 8 here that's driving me crazy. It's still not fixed 9 right.
10 MR. BARBER: What is it?
11 1 It's a temporary power and 12 light procedure. It's just too cumbersome. There are 13 so many rules and so many things written in the 14 process that some of them, if you take them out, they 15 really don't compromise safety. But if you put them 16 in, you make life difficult for everybody. I can't 17 have a power strip under my desk working with a 18 computer unless it's been inspected and has a tag on 19 it. Give me a break. I don't do that at home. I buy 20 it. I look at it. I give it a general once over.
21 But it has to be tagged and dated and all 22 of that. Extension cords running through outside for 23 temporary surps (PH) with nothing on them. They're 24 supposed to be wrapped. That's not the way to do 25 things, but that's the way things are done. We NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 overlook them to get the job done rather than to do 2 the right thing and go through the time to change a 3 procedure, and that's all it would take.
4 MR. BARBER: That sounds like a business 5 efficiency, business effectiveness issue. Is there 6 anything that comes to mind that's a safety issue, 7 whether it be radiological safety or nuclear safety, 8 something in the plant?
9 IV -" Wj Other than the ones you have, 10 I have the fuel -- that I brought up after our thing 11 when the fan was open and exposed which is a safety 12 concern. The fan was rotating backwards. You have to 13 get something done with this. It took me saying do I 14 have to call OSHA here. Then it was fixed. It 15 shouldn't come to that extreme. It's a ten day period 16 and you don't do anything.
17 Another guy emailed me. He saw my email 18 and said did you like what I wrote. I wasn't the only 19 one chasing the issue. But people bring it up from 20 different areas, and there just wasn't an urgency to 21 get it done. Now it's fixed. That's the ultimate 22 goal but the path it took to get there. The problem 23 I had in the past was because I do that and am 24 relentless I'm a problem. It's better to store him 25 off over here and let me deal with something else that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 won't raise any issues.
2 I'm real simple. I'll do what you say.
3 Here's my procedures. I want you to follow them. I 4 can do that. If I waiver, am I going to get in 5 trouble? I don't want to do verbatim compliance to a 6 point to where you are going to do something wrong.
7 Let's get it corrected. Write why you do it.
8 Document it. It's real simple. If you don't like it, 9 change it. We'll follow it. That's what you expect 10 me to do. Don't harass me or give me a hard time for 11 doing what you ask.
12 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: You hadj 13 You mentioned back on November 4, 2002 14 about you were asked to check the reactor coolant 15 pumps, the RCP oil levels. You had mentioned from a 16 safety perspective that you thought this was against 17 the policies of PSEG. You mentioned about heat stress 18 environment and high radiation that you were subject 19 to, is that true? / 76 20 That's correct.
21 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Are there any other 22 nuclear safety issues that you would look at as far as 23 productivity versus safety that have been brought to 24 your attention or you specifically are aware of that 25 you felt could have been handled better? There's this NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 feeling that it's all about productivity, forget the 2 safety, when you bring up issues and concerns. Get 3 the job done.
4 : First hand, I can't think of 5 any. My whole point is that the environment they 6 create for people to raise issues or to try to do the 7 right thing, if it's a cumbersome process, they shy 8 away from that. I don't think that's promoted. I'm 9 perceived as a robot. As far as talking to my plant 10 manager now, I go to him with issues and he just says 11 okay I hear what you are saying. No, I don't find 12 that behavior acceptable. Yes, I'll talk to my 13 people.
14 If I hear it one more time, I'll die.
15 Give me a break. You are not doing anything. The 16 same issues are still there. When I go to you, they 17 shouldn't treat me wrong because I'm doing what you 18 ask. Until you change that culture, we have a long 19 way to go.
20 MR. BARBER: Can you give me an example of 21 one of the things you have taken to him? It sounds 22 like you are talking about managers.
23 jj] Yes, my first line, I'll tell 24 you right now. This instance right here. I took this 25 to him, and this has not been resolved yet. I'm NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 sorry. I have not had resolution on this yet.
2 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: When you say 3 "this," are you talking about --
4 Q` The pump issue, that's 5 correct. In the report that they put out, it was 6 handled incorrectly. I can live with that. Everybody 7 knows who it is. Nothing is anonymous around here.
8 It wasn't intentional. The guy who did it is a nice 9 guy and didn't mean to upload names and everything on 10 there, but it was done.
11 In there it mentioned there were six 12 supervisors interviewed and they all sawas a 13 problem. If I'm not a problem, why would they 14 perceive me as a problem? I want you to get to the 15 root of that. I don't need to know who they are. That 16 has not changed. They assume I do a lot of things.I 17 was in a safety meeting the other day. We had a roll 18 out that was given. My understanding was it was 19 supposed to be an hour. It was ten minutes. For some 20 reason, someone took that to whoever was in charge of 21 doing the roll outs. I don't know who it was. We had 22 another roll out done because it was inappropriate and 23 I have done well. The supervisor was a supervisor 24 with an attitude giving a roll out on safety.
25 We're in a room like this. Now you are NEAL R. GROSS i COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1 4 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 going to put 20 people in this room. There's not 2 seating for everybody. Everybody is whisked in there 3 at the end of the day like it's punishment. It's 6:55 4 p.m. We're done at 7:00 p.m. Roll everybody in there 5 with no supervisors. One of the guys said where are 6 the supervisors. Well, I'll give that to them 7 tomorrow. Now, I have been told I didn't do a good 8 job so I'm giving this roll out. Here it went, on and 9 on.
10 I sit down. At the first meeting, he told 11 everybody to get comfortable and it was going to take 12 a while. It was a ten minute meeting. Now, I have 13 one at the end of the day. I'm getting comfortable.
14 I sat on the floor. You are not going to get this if 15 you are sitting on the floor. I said where am I 16 supposed to sit. Come up here and sit right in the 17 front chair. Okay. I want you to pay attention. I 18 said are you insinuating I don't pay attention. We 19 got into it right from the get go and off it went.
20 No, I wasn't happy with that at all. I 21 talked to the ops manager about it. I said I don't 22 need this. I said I didn't even bring the issue up.
23 I listen to what you say. I didn't know it was 24 supposed to be an hour. I didn't call anybody. I 25 don't know what happened. Evidently something NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 happened wrong and I don't know how it happened.
2 That's the environment that's out there.
3 In fairness to them, this is a first line 4 supervisor. These guys are getting hit up above.
5 Their raises depend on how much work they get done, 6 not how well they do it or the quality of it. That's 7 a fact. One of the supervisors mentioned I have a 8 family to raise too. He used to really try to see our 9 side and try to get things fixed. He was squashed and 10 got zero raise. What is he going to do?
Ii Any first hand nuclear safety, I can't 12 think of any off the top of my head that I have been 13 involved with first hand. My concern all along is 14 that they don't promote you doing the right thing.
15 You are not looked at as a good employee to do the 16 right thing. I live it. You can talk to as many 17 people as you want to about it. To me, it's very 18 obvious. Like I said, I have expressed it to you, to to my senior management. I don't know what 20 else to say about it. I can try to dig stuff up and 21 give it to you, but that's what's out there.
22 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: You talk about 23 digging stuff up. One thing that's helpful when we 24 deal with these work environment issues is certainly 25 your impression. We want to know what you think of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 the environment, but it's really helpful if we have 2 examples that we can fall back on, we can point to, we 3 can look at, and we can review. So if you have some 4 of those.
5 I can give you examples. My 6 problem is time right now. You have to give me time.
7 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Yes.
8 I have my bag that has stuff 9 in it. I have a file cabinet at home that has stuff 20 in it. I have a box in my back seat that has stuff in 11 it. For me to weed through it, certainly I had a hard 12 time getting things to lI do have to work.
13 We're in an outage now. For me to gather it and 14 logically give it to you, I mean I get --
15 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Is there anything 16 that stands out in your mind that we can do follow up 17 on that you can give us a start on?
18 MR. BARBER: In the last two or three 19 years.
20 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Yes, we're looking 21 for something where there was some plant issue. Maybe 22 the plant was shut down or it was being held down 23 because of some equipment problem or some physical 24 problem with the way something operated. Maybe there 25 was a situation where there was a push to do something NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS P 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 and there was a bypass of a procedure step that's an 2 important procedure step.
3 Or there was a tech spec that was ignored, 4 like if there was a surveillance requirement that said 5 you have to go out and do this under these conditions.
6 That's the kind of stuff we're looking for. We're 7 looking for something that we can point to and say 8 here this is the example where production took 9 precedence over safety or there's a violation. You 10 did this activity and you didn't follow your license.
11 You didn't follow the tech specs. You didn't follow 12 the procedures.
13 ]* I can just give you 14 industrial safety. I can give you two instances with 15 a circuit or breaker that didn't go in right. They 16 are documented. You wrap the breaker and there's a 17 switch in the back of one of the ones. I have 18 notifications on it. I can give you that information 19 later. I don't have it off the top of my head.
20 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Okay.
21 **What happened is some of the 22 breakers do not roll in right. There's what they call 23 a top switch. I think it's trunk operated switch in 24 the back, some permissive limit switch. It's bending.
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1 designed to be wrapped in and out as many times, I 2 don't know all the details. I forwarded all of it to 3 the system engineer.
4 The bottom line is it wouldn't go in 5 right. It caused the breaker to cock all the time.
6 My supervisor said there's the switch and took a bar, 7 went in there in the cubicle, and bent the switch up.
8 Was it a safety related component? No, I stood back.
9 I would not do that. I'm sorry. I'm not allowed to 10 do that. He went in there, bent it up, and we pushed 11 it in. We got it going. We needed the circulator 12 back in. To me, that's a production thing. I have to 13 get the circulator back in. It's not the right way to 14 do it. I was out there today as a matter of fact 15 looking at something else with --
16 MR. BARBER: What was that device again 17 that you were talking about?
18 It's called a trunk operated 19 switch.
20 MR. BARBER: Okay.
21 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Who was the 22 supervisor that stepped in there?
23 I h W 24 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Is he still around?
25 l _ Yes, he is. He did it on two NEAL R. GROSS '//
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1 separate occasions. I have the dates for that and 2 everything because him and I tend to clash.
3 MR. BARBER: Was that within the last two 4 years?
5 Yes, sir.
6 MR. BARBER: In your view for that set of 7 circumstances, what would be the proper way that it 8 should have been handled? In other words, what would 9 be the ideal way?
10 The proper way? That. breaker 11 should have come out of the cubicle, which it can do.
12 It was already out. You wrap that route. You put it 13 around. You take it out and you replace the switch or 14 you bend it up. You don't stick anything in the 15 cubicle and pry it. I'll tell you right now - and you 16 know because you are an electrician - there were 17 shutters in the back. It's not in the rack in 18 position. It's racked out, but I'm sorry. That's not 19 how you do it. First of all, he shouldn't have been 20 doing it. Second of all, that's not the right way to 21 do it.
22 MR. BARBER: So you are saying the 23 maintenance activity was complete, and this was 24 something that was done after.
25 Jf The maintenance activity had NEAL R. GROSS LI i /
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1 nothing to do with the breaker. The activity that was 2 done is we routinely clean water boxes. I don't know 3 how much you know about that.
4 MR. BARBER: Yes.
5M 4( We take the circulator out.
6 MR. BARBER: So this was part of the 7 tagging.
8 ITagging the water box. Let's 9 get it back. Look at it. Here it is. Trying to get 10 the circulator back in.
11 MR. BARBER: So this was a byproduct of 12 taking the circular pump breaker out to do the water 13 box cleaning.
14 Yes.
15 MR. BARBER: Got it.
16 4] I recently had to go do it.
17 The same thing happened. What they have now is they 28 have a washing tag hanging on the breaker, the exact 19 same one. It's still not fixed. That's probably gone 20 over a year now.
21 MR. BARBER: Did you put a notification in 22 on that?
23 19 Yes, I did one better than 24 that. It had been written up numerous times in the 25 past. I researched all the ones that I could find on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 it. I did it while I was with safety still. All of 2 these were researched within the last six months. The 3 whole course of it is over a period of two years. I 4 identified all the ones there. a notification 5 on us not training properly to shield a problem. I 6 said we may have a problem with this device. I worked 7 with the engineers up there.
8 MR. BARBER: Who owns that? Is that a 9 system engineering problem, or is that a maintenance 10 problem?
11 Well, it's not a system 12 engineering problem, but the problem was it wasn't 13 getting to them to evaluate. It's gotten to them now, 14 so why it's not fixed now I don't know. I could go 15 forever tracing these things down.
16 MR. BARBER: Some of it is trying to 17 figure out who the right people are to work on the 18 component.
19 ,-JThe initial problem I saw in 20 there is the screening process. When we did it, if 21 it's not IDed right, because I had to go through 22 numerous IDs to find them all to try and tie them 23 together, to me, all that stuff should be done up 24 front so you get it, so it's channeled the right way, 25 and the guy knows about it. If you don't know about NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS fJ-1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 something, shame on you. You're not going to get it.
2 MR. BARBER: Right.
3 1 I I had a recent problem. We 4 have a stupid hose --
5 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Excuse me. The 6 screening process you were talking about, is that a 7 biproduct of the SOP controlled notification process?
8 1 Yes, the work management 9 process. When it comes in, here's the problem. Let's 10 try to channel it the right way. Is it coded right?
11 Does it have the right component ID on it? To me, 12 that's --
13 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: You are saying you 14 fixed that. You think there was a problem with that, 15 and you fixed it.
16 No, I did not fix that. I 17 found everything associated with this problem. Did I 18 fix that process? No.
19 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: But I meant in the 20 instance of this circular one.
21 This circular one, yes, I 22 addressed it out there. Now, I haven't pushed on it 23 anymore. It's still in my box. To me, it's a safety 24 issue. When I get time, I will go back and shoot an 25 email and say what's up with this thing. Like I said, NEAL R. GROSS i)if
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1 I was just out there on an unrelated problem. I was 2 out there with!, We had a problem with some 3 tagging. I'm on the also.
4 MR. BARBER: Okay.
5 So we were out there. I said 6 here's one and here's the white tag. It says 7 electrician needed when you do this. But what is he 8 going to do? Is he going to pry the switch up? I 9 went out there with an electrician. We tried to get 10 in. We said it won't go in. I don't know what 11 happened. They probably got somebody else to do it.
12 I have no idea.
13 MR. BARBER: Is this on unit II?
14 Unit II, yes.
15 MR. BARBER: So it's not really needed now 16 because the unit is shut down.
17 It's not needed right now, 18 but it's also an identical problem on unit I. You 19 have the same concerns over there.
20 MR. BARBER: I'm not trying to minimize 21 it. I'm just trying to understand where it is.
22 It's both units. I actually 23 got it to a point where I tracked it to the cubicles, 24 to the circulators, more so in the other ones. It 25 doesn't mean it was just them, but it could be because NEAL R. GROSSAI COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS ic I 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 they were racking it out more than the other ones.
2 They have a great tool out there that they use 3 already.
4 MR. BARBER: Okay. You bring up some good 5 issues. The thing I'm struggling with is I'm trying 6 to understand where the process is breaking down.
7 Because you see something and that's not right, that's 8 good. That's not bad. That's good. You saw there 9 was a problem with trunk operated switch. Then you 10 start thinking maybe it's a generic issue which is 11 good. So maybe it's affecting other circular pump 12 breakers. Now it gets put in the notification system 13 process. It should lay out something.
14 But there were eight other 15 notifications on the same thing at that point.
16 MR. BARBER: For the same pump or for the 17 same breaker?
18 ca No, some of them for the same 19 and some of them for different. Like I said, two 20 stood out more than others. Others were for different 21 problems. I just pulled them all together and 22 referenced them all in one notification and said here 23 you go. We have a problem with the way we do things.
24 How that panned out, I don't know.
25 MR. BARBER: Was that a recent one so it's NEAL R. GROSS !C COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS HI 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 still in the process kind of thing?
2
- JAs far as I know it's still 3 in the process because it's not fixed yet.
4 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: So how they are 5 being screened through the work management process, 6 that's where it's falling short.
7 ) Well, that's the first piece 8 of it. That's how you get it to at least be 9 identified correctly and where you are going to set it 10 on to. Like I said, mine are more so just safety 11 issues. I'll tell you right now. I really don't have 12 a problem. I have heartaches getting there, but I 13 don't do the wrong thing. If someone is going to do 14 the wrong thing, they are going to get somebody else 15 to do it. I will stop it. It will be done right.
16 Unfortunately I feel I pay for that. That's the 17 problem I can't deal with. When we clean the water 18 boxes, our prcoess calls for us to write a 19 notification, like with any work, to identify a 20 problem. The water box is dirty. It needs a 21 notification. We, as operations, are very weak in 22 working as a maintenance organization. We don't do 23 that. We just tag it out and go in and clean it.
24 How do you track if you have a problem?
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1 maintenance or any corrective action, you write a 2 notification. Then if that notification needs tags, 3 it's changed to an order. The order is permitted to 4 the tag out for the worker safety. We got it. That 5 doesn't happen.
6 One of the supervisors, a good guy up 7 there, he wrote it up. Here's what we're going to do 8 and close it out. Nothing is done yet. I wait four 9 months. I write it again. This was written up 10 before. What are we going to do? Nothing. They 11 closed it out saying we're working on it. This is 12 working.
13 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: When was that?
14 2 Within the last year also.
15 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Within 2003?
16 Late 2002 or early 2003, yes.
17 MR. BARBER: So your specific concern with 18 this is related to process concerns, right?
19 _lIt's a safety tagging process 20 concern. X operations up. We are not good 21 being a maintenance organization. We're in the 22 practice of usually hanging tags and setting other 23 people up. When we actually have to do the work, we 24 are weak in it. Our guys aren't trained on it. We 25 don't know what to look for. That's evident. We've NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 had roll outs. Check your tags. We just don't do the 2 maintenance organization part of it well.
3 MR. BARBER: All right.
4 But it was a head beating 5 thing. I'll let you know that issue is fixed now. I 6 had problems with the orders getting permanent tag 7 out, and I had to write it up again.
8 MR. BARBER: I'm trying to understand your 9 point. Your point is every time you do water box 10 cleaning there should be a tag out.
Ii *_*There always is a tag out.
12 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Completely 13 comprehensive.
14 4 There should be a 15 notification and a subsequent order to track that so 16 when you use SAP you go back and say I cleaned the 17 water boxes and it still happens. I cleaned 22 out 20 18 times. We might have a problem there. That's how you 19 track it. If you don't do that, you go on personal 20 knowledge. Yes, I think I cleaned that one before.
21 MR. BARBER: I got you.
22 P"M wl The other piece of it is 23 there's a process and it says we do this. If we 24 don't, why aren't we doing this? Well, we're working 25 on getting it. What are you doing until that point?
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1 It doesn't mean you don't have to follow the rules 2 because you don't have anything yet.
3 MR. BARBER: In your consideration of this 4 issue, is there anything where you feel like people 5 don't follow the rules? Or is it more it's a hassle 6 so I don't want to be bothered with it?
7 /It's a hassle.
8 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Really you are 9 talking about your fellow*.", I assume, right?
10 iI'm talking about everyone in 11 processing. It's more of a not knowing what they are 12 supposed to do.
13 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Training and 14 education.
15 It's definitely training and 16 education, but it's --
17 MR. BARBER: It's more of a performance 18 issue, right? They know what to do.
19 gThey do now when you bring it 20 forward and bring it out. It all started with the 21 process. Once you get the process, then you have to 22 get the guys to check it.
23 MR. BARBER: Okay.
24 j In order to get them to do 25 it, you have to give them to tools to do that. We NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 begged for a computer out at the circ water structure 2 for a long time. If you want me to check my tags, I'm 3 going to have to come check them. I'm going to have 4 to go inside, look on the computer, and get one out 5 here if you want me to do it the right way.
6 It will just hold it up. Then it's I'll 7 give you verbal. Yes, I'm signed on. That's fine as 8 long as nothing happens. If they do, then the guy is 9 supposed to check his tags. He is supposed to 10 physically go on the computer and check them. It's 11 not okay that you say I'm signed on. You have to 12 verify that to make sure he's on the right component.
13 It's your protection. I drive that into them all.
14 MR. BARBER: Okay.
15 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Anything else?
16 Take a minute to ponder here.
17 Like I said, a lot of it 18 comes from not knowing it even exists. The other one 19 is when I identify we have to get better at this, it's 20 like yes okay. I'm not happy with that. We have a 21 hose control program. The yellow hose is 22 contaminated. The red hose is air. The blue is 23 clean.
24 It's in an operations standards. We have 25 contractors not following the standards. I bring it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 up to our ops manager at the time. These guys just 2 don't know you have it in an ops standard is his 3 answer. Everyone is required to follow the operation 4 standards.
5 MR. BARBER: Who was the operator? *--
6 I said that's 7 great as long as they know it's there, but they don't 8 know it's there. You have to put it in a document 9 that they know where it is. Put it in the safety 10 manual so they all know what color hoses go to where.
11 Yellow hoses run on the air line. They turn the wrong 12 one on. You set people up to fail.
13 We just had another event at the beginning 14 of this outage. Wrote it up, yellow hose runs from an 15 air line. Wasn't in use yet. Wrote it up.
16 Referenced all the other orders for the hoses. Say 17 level two repeat occurance.
18 MR. BARBER: Let me ask you a question 19 related to this hose problem. I'll ask it from a 20 different perspective just so I can understand where 21 you are coming from on this. If you were the VP or 22 the plant manager and this problem was brought to you, 23 how would you handle it if you had the staff working 24 for you? I'm just trying to understand what it is 25 that you would think in this instance would be the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 ideal performance steps that should have been taken 2 either prior to them coming on-site, while they were 3 on-site so I can get a picture from your perspective.
4 It's not just an operations 5 issue. Everybody uses hoses.
6 MR. BARBER: Okay.
7 I think hoses should be a 8 tool issue from the storeroom hot or cold. I think it 9 should be in one standards applicable to everyone, the 10 safety manual. Have it right here. There should be 11 a section in there, hose control.
12 MR. BARBER: So if you were the plant 13 manager, that's what you would do. Would it be 14 acceptable if it was in a separate procedure?
15 I don't want it in the 16 procedures somewhere hidden, but if you chose to do 17 that, it would have to be one that everyone was 18 accountable for and rolled out to contractors coming 19 on-site. You have to put it somewhere easy.
20 MR. BARBER: Take scaffold. Don't you 21 have procedures that are just scaffolding control? It 22 talks about all the different controls you find, when 23 you put tags on them and when you don't.
24 Scaffolding is in here too 25 though.
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1 MR. BARBER: But is that 100 percent 2 complete?
3
- No, you can have the total 4 program in there. Hose is an easy one.
5 MR. BARBER: Okay.
6 You can have how you control 7 them out of the store room and all of that. That's 8 how I think it should be handled. In here, you say we 9 have a hose control program. I think it should be in-10 fill only. Reference to me a couple of tidbits on ii there and reference to me a good procedure to go to.
12 That's what I think.
13 MR. BARBER: What I was trying to 14 understand is, in my own mind, is this something that 15 should be part of GET, or should it be part of 16 something that they would get on-site?
17 EW It certainly should be 18 covered in GET, yes. It should be covered in there 19 along with the safe hose program that's under 20 housekeeping, where we don't put chromates or service 21 water in our system. To me, that's also in an ops 22 standard. That's not applicable to just us. Everyone 23 drains systems. As a matter of fact, three outages 24 ago we had guys thought they were doing no-water on 25 the floor and no water in the drains.
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1 The guys were cleaning a pipe, pumped it 2 into a barrel, service water, didn't get any water on 3 the floor, took it up to 100 elevation and dumped it 4 in the floor drain. They thought they were going 5 good. I didn't get any water on the floor, but you 6 dumped the service water that had the chlorides into 7 the floor drain which just increases our 8 processessing. They just didn't know because you 9 didn't put it out to where it was available for them.
10 MR. BARBER: Okay.
iU1W I'm babbling on here.
12 MR. BARBER: That's okay. That's what 13 we're here for. We want to hear what you have to say.
14 - IThe bottom line is the answer 15 I got of everyone should be held accountable to that 16 is not the answer I wanted to hear. Labeling is 17 another issue. It's very integral. I think it's 18 written too cumbersome. I think you can ease it up a 19 little bit and still not compromise safety. By no 20 means do I think you should pull things out that are 21 good, but as written we do not follow it.
22 You can't hang a label and follow it 23 because of the recent staffing changes. We had a 24 label control coordinator or a station label guy.
25 He's gone. He's retired. He's out. There's nobody.
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1 All of these things had to be routed through him.
2 That obviously doesn't happen anymore. To hang a 3 label, it says write a notification for any label you 4 write.
5 MR. BARBER: Is there a program for that?
6 Yes, there is. It's called 7 a shop 44, another ops procedure which where that one 8 belongs is operations. We should own labeling.
9 MR. BARBER: Is there an owner for that?
10 You said there was.
11 f Yes, there is. Hope Creek is 12 the sponsor because I brought it up at meetings to my 13 superiors. I said we have to rework this. We don't 14 do this as follows. It's very cumbersome. We really 15 don't have to do all of this, but it is very important 16 to the tagging process. If I don't label that right 17 and I have to go tag that and it's on the wrong thing, 18 you are done.
19 I brought it up enough to where I became 20 a pain again. They said why don't you write up 21 what you think it should say and bring it back to me 22 and I'll look at it. I said I'll do one better. I'm 23 going to follow your process. I haven't hung a label 24 since that I haven't written a notification in the 25 format that it calls for.
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1 MR. BARBER: So you are saying you follow 2 the process.
3 I follow the first part of 4 the process. I don't know what happens the rest of 5 the way because you can't do it all the way through.
6 MR. BARBER: Have you ever gotten any 7 feedback on any safety issues that you have identified 8 notifications on that in fact they have been resolved 9 and you have looked at them and said yes this is good 10 or no it's not good?
11 es, I have. I can't give 12 you any particulars. s our
/
13 All safety notifications are reported down. They go 14 back. All of these safe notifications have been 15 closed. Please take a look at yours and see if it has 16 been.
17 MR. BARBER: Have you gotten any back that 18 have been closed?
19 Ys 20 MR. BARBER: Were you satisfied with them?
21 No, I was not.
22 MR. BARBER: In all cases or just some.
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1 satisfied.
2 MR. BARBER: Is there a common theme to 3 these? Is it just they are not getting to the bottom 4 of the problem?
5 I don't think they get to the 6 root cause of a lot of them. That's the bottom line.
7 I don't think it's any secret that our corrective 8 actions are less than adequate.
9 MR. BARBER: Okay.
10 If you look at the hose one, 11 I had a corrective action that was not applicable to 12 the other unit. You have to be kidding me. They 13 didn't focus on the root cause of the issue.
14 MR. BARBER: Okay.
15 Hopefully it will get there 16 this time.
17 MR. BARBER: Do you have any impressions 18 as to why that is? Why is it that Salem can't solve 19 its problems? Is it because the process is too 20 cumbersome? Is it because people don't care? Is it 21 because there is not enough money to fix the problems?
22 What's behind that?
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1 when you first do it. But it will help from here on 2 out. If you don't take that time the first time to 3 fix it, it's going to be a problem every time you do 4 it. You have to take that time.
5 A lot of that could be captured in the 6 post-job briefs. Post-job briefs are nonexistent. If 7 I get one in 100 post-job briefs, I have gotten a lot.
8 We say post-job briefs but we don't. That's where you 9 get your lessons learned. You don't have to stop the 10 process in there. The process allows you places to 11 comment in the procedure and fix it and go on. I'm 12 not looking to stop it. Let's capture it, and we'll 13 get it fixed for the next time.
14 MR. BARBER: Okay.
15 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: You mentione 16 Ye"s.
17 18 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: You said he's the 19 20 We have a couple of different 21 councils. We're in the operations council. is 22 the 1M 23 the ow, so I work pretty close with on 24 resolving safety issues.
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1 someone to talk to. Would you agree?
2 Yes -is a good guy.
3 MR. BARBER: We had an interview with him 4 yesterday.
5 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: We talked to him 6 yesterday.
7 All right.
8 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Anything else?
9 Not at this point. Like I 10 said, if you need anything, I can do it if you give me 11 the time to get stuff. It's just the mindset. Like 12 I said, until they battle the fact that I'm not a 13 burden because I do the right thing, I don't want to 14 come to work.
15 (Tape flip.)
16 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: It is approximately 17 12:20 p.m. Please continue-'
12 We recently had a new VP'that 19 came back that was here before. After restart, we 20 were really heading on the right track. The union and 21 the company were working together. We just slowly 22 faded away from that. I hope he can bring that back.
23 That's a good thing he came back.
24 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: So you are talking 25 about the whole organization and the mindset needs to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 be changed.
2 Yes, we battle too much 3 between company and union where we shouldn't have to.
4 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Is it labor 5 management or is it just all levels of the 6 organization? You may see it at your level but --
7 'wow I can't tell you what I see 8 at the top. I hear one of the supervisors say I 9 didn't get a raise last year because I tried to slow 10 down and do the right thing and I can't do that. They 11 are getting told what to do. There's budget crunches, 12 deregulation out there.
13 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Who said that?
14 What supervisor said that?' Were you present when he 15 said that?
16 U No, it was second hand.
17 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Who was the 18 supervisor that mentioned that?
19 20 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN:. Okay.
21 -Im.He really tried to do a nice 22 thing there. As you can see, he has since been let 23 down. I think he's a good guy. Unfortunately he's 24 been beat up too bad.
25 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: I'm sorry.
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1 Continue your thought there. You had something else 2 you were going into.
3 -f No, I think that's the root 4 of all things. You have a lot of guys down at the 5 lower levels - I'll call it middle to upper management 6 - that sees the wrong idea. Maintenance went through 7 their thing where we got more wrench time in the 8 field. We need more wrench time. The process is the 9 problem. They took their chairs away. We're not 10 allowed to sit in the ofice. It's just not the way to 11 do things. Then you just end up hating each other 12 even more.
13 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: I want you to take 14 one last minute here before we conclude. We'll come 15 back if we have to if you think of additional things 16 that you think we should know, but I want you to take 17 the extra minute now and maybe something will pop up 18 in your mind there. Is there anything you missed?
19 *
- I'msure there's probably a 20 lot of things I can go over. My deal is to present a
- 21. mindset to where I think the problem is. It's not any 22 one specific instance. The way things are going just 23 carries over.
24 MR. BARBER: You made a comment about 25 Did you NEAL R. GROSS i 7QF COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 have an impression of that? Is that a positive or a 2 negative?
3 1 think it's great. I'm 4 hoping it's great. I'm hoping it can make a big 5 change because things were very good. I came back 6 into operations in late '96. He was here and then 7 left. Things were really good. Everything was 8 working well. Everyone was working together. We got 9 things done. From then to now, it slid to getting to 10 the point where I don't think it could get any worse 11 and it keeps getting worse.
12 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: How are you 13 evaluated on your work,*
14 I have had no bad evaluations 15 other than one.
16 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Do you actually 17 receive a performance appraisal, or do you get a 18 verbal? How does that work?
19 Performance appraisals. I 20 have copies of all of them.
21 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: I guess what I was 22 going to is you had mentioned you don't like being 23 labeled. You bring up issues and you are getting 24 tired of that. Does your supervisor or management 25 strike back at you by giving you crappy assignments?
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1 You are saying your performance appraisals are good.
2 I get pretty much meaningless 3 assignments. My supervisor who gives me my appraisals 4 I get along with very well. I think he's a good guy 5 t.(PH) does the right thing. We discuss 6 issues. He helps me drive at the right path.
7 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: I guess my last 8 thing would be along those lines. You have mentioned 9 you are getting some sort of push back-type thing that 10 is not favorable. You get tired of some of the 12 responses you get. You are labeled as a problem and 12 those types of things. Have other people come to you?
13 Do they feel the same way when they bring up issues, 14 concerns?
15 j Yes, they do. You mean their 16 perception of what happens to me.
17 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Their perception of 18 what happens to you. Have they come forward to you 19 and said that happened to me too?
20__No, I have not gotten that.
21 They can see that it's happened to me. They send me 22 out to the switch yard to do readings for the day. I 23 don't say that I mind.
24 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: You mean a lot of 25 the times they are not splitting it up amongst all the NEAL R. GROSS ,i /
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1 They are just picking on you.
2 SWell, one of the other 3 made a comment to me the other day of how do I get the 4 easy jobs that you get all the time now.
5 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN'4 Okay.
6 ... I said why don't you bring 7 that up.
8 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: All right.
9 II think that speaks for 10 itself.
i1 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: That's all that I 12 have.
13 MR. BARBER: I don't have anything else.
14 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Have I or any other 15 NRC representative threatened you in any manner or 16 offered you any reward in return for this information?
~No, sir.
17 18 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Have you provided 19 this information freely and voluntarily?
.
- Yes, sir.
20 21 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: One last time, do 22 you have anything else?
23 *i~m.-* * ]NO, sir.
24 SPECIAL AGENT MULLEN: Okay. The time now 25 is approximately 12:25 p.m. This interview is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 concluded. Thank you very much,'
2 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter 3 concluded at 12:25 p.m.)
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding: Interview of Docket Number: 1-2003-051F Location: Salem, NJ were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape(s) provided by the NRC.
Ann Marie S~ith Official Transcriber Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.
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