ML060690409
| ML060690409 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Salem, Hope Creek  |
| Issue date: | 08/27/2004 |
| From: | Teator J NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| References | |
| -RFPFR, FOIA/PA-2005-0194 | |
| Download: ML060690409 (56) | |
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OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS INTERVIEW
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _x IN THE MATTER OF:
INTERVIEW OF BILL WHITE (CLOSED)
- Docket No.
- (not provided) x Friday, August 27, 2004 1s Floor Conference Room TB-2 Building Salem Hope Creek Hancocks Bridge, New Jersey The above-entitled interview was conducted at 10:08 a.m.
BEFORE:
Senior Special Agent JEFFREY TEATOR iatiosn in this record was deleted ordance with the Freedom of Informatnm womntinne
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P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2
10:08 a.m.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Today's date is 4
August 27, the year is 2004.
My name is Jeffrey 5
Teator, I'm a Senior Special Agent with the United 6
States Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Office of 7
Investigations.
8 This morning I'm interviewing Mr. Bill 9
White. It's approximately 10:08 on Friday morning and 10 the interview is taking place in the l-floor 11 conference room in the TB-2 Building at Salem Hope 12 Creek Nuclear Generating Station, Hancocks Bridge, New 13 Jersey.
14 Mr. White, prior to going on the record, 15 did I present you with my credentials?
16 MR. WHITE:
Yes you did.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
And this is a 18 voluntary interview today. Knowing it's voluntary, do 19 you wish to go forward?
20 MR. WHITE:
I understand it's voluntary 21 and I have no problem with going forward.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
Thank 23 you.
Do you have any objection this morning to 24 providing sworn testimony?
25 MR.
WHITE: No I do not.
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SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Would you 2
raise your right hand for me, please? Bill White, do 3
you swear that the information that you are about to 4
provide to me is the truth, the whole truth and 5
nothing but the truth?
6 MR.
WHITE:
I do.
7 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Thanks.
Mr.
8 White, you are being interviewed this morning as a 9
witness in an investigation I'm conducting into the 10 closing of the 22MS42 valve at Salem, and the event 11 occurred on September 21, 2002. You were the control 12 room supervisor on duty that night, is that correct?
13 MR. WHITE:
That is correct, yes.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And as the CRS, 15 what were your responsibilities?
16 MR. WHITE: Well, my responsibilities was 17 for direct command and control of the Salem Unit 2, in 18 this case the valve was in Salem Unit 2, and so that 19 was my responsibility that night and I was in charge.
20 As a matter of fact, I had just briefed the shutdown 21 I think when the valve got closed.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
23 We're going to come back to that, again I just wanted 24 to get what your job title was and your responsibility 25 on the record.
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MR. WHITE:
Sure.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
While we're 3
there still, who was the shift manager, do you 4
remember?
5 MR. WHITE:
Yes.
Van Ford was my shift 6
manager, he was the normal, the guy that I worked for 7
on Bravo shift.
I'm not on that shift anymore but at 8
the time he was my shift manager.
And I think the 9
other person involved was who was my 10 shift, he's the
- for anything that has to do with 11 operating the plant.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Do you 13 remember who the reactor operators were on Unit 2 that 14 night?
I know the log would show that.
15 MR. WHITE: You know, I don't remember who 16 it was.
I'm sure the log would show. I believe that 17 Rick Feffer was one of the guys because I think he'd 18 said something about that you guys had interviewed him 19 previously.
He went for an interview, I don't know 20 what the details were, but he said one time that --
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Fairly recent?
22 MR.
WHITE: A week or two ago.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
24 MR. WHITE:
Yeah, I think it was over at 25 NOSF.
So I think he might have been one of the, to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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tell you the truth I don't remember who.
I guess I 2
could have gone back and looked, I don't remember who 3
the RO and PO were that night.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. PO 5
would be plant operator?
6 MR. WHITE: Plant operator, right. Right, 7
reactor operator and plant operator is the separate 8
watch stations.
I don't remember who was who.
I'm 9
pretty sure Rick was one of the guys, he's one of the 10 Bravo shift guys that usually he worked directly for 11 me.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Your normal 13 shift manager was Van Ford then?
14 MR. WHITE:
Right.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
And Rick was 16 one of the normal ROs working under you at that time?
17 MR. WHITE:
Right.
Well he kind of 18 reported, you know, our chain of command he reported 19 to me directly, he just happened to be working in our 20 unit that night, I know him very well since I've --
21 well he's RO over the last several years.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
The control 23 rooms are shared, Salem 1 and 2, is that correct?
24 MR. WHITE:
That's correct.
25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Is there a CRS NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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also on the Unit 2 side?
2 MR.
WHITE:
Well I was on Unit 2.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
I mean Unit 1 4
side.
5 MR. WHITE: The Unit 1 side, yes, and who 6
that was I don't remember either.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And they'd have 8
a full complement on that side also?
9 MR. WHITE:
Yes, it would have been like 10 Mike Walker or one of the other guys that, let me 11 think who the other guys were.
That shift's all 12 broken up now, we're all on different, all over the 13 place.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
How about a 15 shift manager, would there be a shift manager in Unit 16 1 also?
17 MR. WHITE:
No.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So Van had both 19 units?
20 MR. WHITE:
Van is the shift manager for 21 both shifts.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
All 23 right. Get some biographical information, can you give 24 me your date and place of birth please?
25 MR. WHITE: Yes. I was born in let's see, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Where's that 3
near?
4 MR. WHITE:
It's near Latrobe.
Most 5
people know that because of the golfing industry. But 6
it's just a little further up in the foothills.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
And Stroh's 8
beer, isn't that made in Latrobe?
9 MR. WHITE:
Rolling Rock beer.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
I'm sorry, 11 Rolling Rock.
12 MR. WHITE: Yes, my best friend from high 13 school the brewery's in his backyard as a matter of 14 fact.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Is it?
16 MR. WHITE: Yes it is.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Does he work 18 there?
19 MR. WHITE:
No, he's a draughtsman; he's 20 been since we were in school.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
That would be 22 a nice little commute to walk to work from there.
23 MR.
WHITE: Oh yes.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Social Security 25 number please?
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MR.
WHITE:
Y.es.........
2 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
And your home 3
address?
4 MR.
WHITE:
Currently, it's 5
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Zip?
7 MR. WHITE: 4 8
SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Home phone 9
number please?
10 MR. WHITE:
It's area code, wait a minute 11 let me think, I've got to be careful because I have a 12 house inia too.
13 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Where's your 14 house in' 15 MR. WHITE just east of 16 the sub base a 4 oto 4 17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yeah, I'm going 18 to be up there Monday, up at Millstone.
19 MR. WHITE:
Oh really?
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Millstone's 21 right down the road from there.
22 MR. WHITE:
Yeah I know, I've thought 23 about sending a resume up there many times.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Oh yeah?
25 MR.
WHITE:
I moved down here when I got NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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this job here, but I still have my house up there.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right. It's 3
pretty up there.
I like it.
4 MR. WHITE:
It certainly is.
I just came 5
back two days ago as a matter of fact, I was up there 6
staining my, doing my deck, biannual work.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Yeah, being a 8
homeowner there's always a lot going on maintenance.
9 MR. WHITE: Oh yes, especially if you live 10 250 miles away from it.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Is your 12 house near the shore, near the water?
13 MR. WHITE: No, it's about ten miles in.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
that 15 makes it a little bit --
16 MR. WHITE: Yeah, I live on the cheap side 17 of the town. Close to the shore is more expensive.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
So then you 19 were in th is that correct?
20 MR. WHITE: Correct.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And what years l_
22 did you serve in thd*
p) 23 MR. WHITE:
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Rank and rating 25 upon discharge?
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MR. WHITE: I was 2
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
And 3
nuclear qualifiedo) 4 MR.
WHITE:
Yes.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Cuba or surf acje 6
MR. WHITE: 4imarinest 7
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:( ubsy 8
MR. WHITE: And when I I was the 9
eputy commander at squadron two.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Is that out of 12 MR. WHITE:
i otonI) 13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: (6otoni 14 MR. WHITE: Hmmm-hmmm.
t-was the staff 15 nuke7 )
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What was the 17 name of the X uty commander of submarine squadron 18 two. )
19 MR. WHITE:
OQ ad 2) 20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Because we have 21 some guys in the region who are on that 4 bas up 22 there. Used to be when they were th
- squad twD-23 MR. WHITE:
Right.
Okay.
I'm sure you 24 do. As a matter of fact, you almost had me one time.
25 The day after I accepted my position here they called NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 me to go for an interview at the NRC.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did they?
Okay.
Well we almost got you.
MR.
WHITE:
Too late.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
Have you attended college?
MR. WHITE:
Yes. i1en Statea SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
jenn Stat[A what type of degree?
MR. WHITE: (Electrical engineering SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What year?
MR. WHITE:
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
BS?
MR. WHITE:
Yes.
SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Further degrees?
MR.
SR.
WHITE: No.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Hired at PSE & G?
v/
bv MR. WHITE: 7$*95.
October 30 or 31 ?
somewhere in there.
I think it was the 3oth, it's right at the end of the month.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: At some point did you becom4Cicensed own here on the Salem units?
MR. WHITE:
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: When was that?
MR. WHITE: That's a good question. Let's see --
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
On or about?
MR. WHITE: It would be September and this is six years ago so whatever that is, 1998 I guess.
I think that sounds right.
They just sent in my 9 enewal for my licen4 so I'm pretty sure it was six years ago.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
obtain an rstant SRO license)
MR. WHITE: Yes.
It wasn't SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
they call them.
MR. WHITE:
Yeah I know.
different for me.
SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
current job title?
MR. WHITE:
I'm an?
iRgon And did you that k stan ay That's what It was a bit And your Alpha shift, (CRS, SR W SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And whom do you report to today?
MR. WHITE:
Mike --
actually physically today Mike's not in, he's the normal shift manager so Mike Strawmuller (PHONETIC) is the guy
> normally 4 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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report to Frank Sowens (PHONETIC) who is one of the 2
other AOMs is on shift today actually.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
Okay.
4 Now the issue that I'm going to be talking to you 5
about occurred on September 21, 2002.
6 MR. WHITE: Okay.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
During that 8
time period were you on the Bravo shift?
9 MR. WHITE:
Yes I was.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. And 11 in between 1992 and 1995, where did you work? Did you 12 work for another utility?
13 MR. WHITE:
No.
No, this is the first 14 commercial anything that I've worked for after I 15 from the in C
16 and I came here, what, three years later.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
18 MR. WHITE: (jtaught high schooJ 19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
Up in 20 Connecticut?
21 MR. WHITE:
In Connecticut, right.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Good.
23 MR.
WHITE:
Got certified to teach 24 physicsl couldn't find a job so I said well enough of 25 that.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Wow, that's amazing. Now they're dying to find teachers seems like.
MR. WHITE:
Yes, specifically the aigh schooi Ithe local high school at North Stonington the yfysics teache retired two years ago.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
The'hysics teachers They had one?
MR. WHITE:
They had one, right, because I used to fill in for him.
I was the only guy they had to fill in for him and I knew he was going to retire in five years and I said well I can't wait five years to find a job.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
No, that's a long wait.
MR. WHITE:
So, I was doing substitute Ctaching and stuff and I wasn't willing to move to be a eachergAi figured I could get a job right there and I couldn't.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Amazing.
MR. WHITE:
And after trying that for about a year I said well that's enough, I'm going to try in some other field.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you do training in the 4 were you ever --
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MR. WHITE: Yes,-
2 3
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
Up in 4
Saratoga?
5 MR. WHITE:
No, Groton.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Groton?
All 7
right.
8 MR. WHITE.i 9
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Thanks.
11 MR. WHITE: So yeah that was my two years 12 of 13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Wow.
Okay.
14 Let's talk about September 21, 2002. You were on duty 15 that night, is that correct?
16 MR. WHITE: Yes I was on Salem Unit 2.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. At some 18 point in the evening was it recognized that there was 19 a leak in the 22MS42 valve?
20 MR. WHITE:
Yes:
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Tell me what 22 you remember and I'll --
23 MR. WHITE: I'll try and remember how we, 24 I don't remember how we first found it.
I believe it 25 was one of the base guys was out walking around and he R
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saw the leak.
I believe there might have been a small 2
leak on there at one time and then it got larger.
3 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
4 MR. WHITE:
And it was reported to the 5
control room. Who specifically reported it the first 6
time I don't know.
However, we became aware that 7
there was a leak on that valve and we started looking 8
into it and found out that it was a fairly healthy 9
sized leak.
Not that we saw any change in, I don't 10 remember that we saw any change in temperature or 11 anything like that.
It was not that significant that 12 we saw anything that affected, directly affected --
13 activity of the magnitude that would do that, but it 14 was of such a magnitude it was causing switch gears 15 and other things to become wedded.
16 And we had various indications in the 17 control room that some of the group buses, which are 18 part of the reactor cooling pumps and stuff, I believe 19 we got a, I don't remember the specific title of it 20 but it was like a failure to transfer warning or 21 something on one of the overheads, I don't remember 22 what number it was or anything but I remember 23 specifically thinking about it.
24 And we shut down, chances are we're going 25 to lose RCPs, it was becoming, it rapidly became a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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complicated, you know, we're seeing indications in the 2
control room that we have a fairly significant leak 3
and we had indications and stuff the switch gear was 4
getting wedded, and we were thinking, okay, can we get 5
somebody down there to redirect the steam so it 6
doesn't go on the switch boards and stuff like that.
7 And it was over a course of a period of 8
time, I don't know whether it was half hour or an 9
hour, but it was long enough that we looked at stuff, 10 we knew where the valve was, we knew that if we shut 11 the valve, somehow, I don't remember who contacted and 12 got hold of design engineering or somebody that knew 13 that if you shut that valve that that would stop the 14 leak coming from where the top of the valve, which is 15 where we thought it was coming from.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
17 MR.
WHITE:
So we looked at the various 18 options and I don't know when, but some time during 19 the course of it, as a matter of fac and 20 I because Van took command and control in the control 21 room so I could go down and.look at it to get a feel 22 for what we had out in the field.
You know, we made 23 sure the plant was stable and all that stuff, and I 24 had Van in the control room and I went out with 25 so that we could see where the leak.was, how big it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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was, you know, what we might be able to do about 2
redirecting it and stuff.
3 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What did you 4
discover from that review?
5 MR. WHITE: Well., I specifically remember 6
4, nd I standing down because the valve is up on a 9 7
platform of probably eight feet up in the air.
8 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
I've seen it, 9
I know where the valve is.
10 MR. WHITE:
You probably know exactly 11 where it is. We were standing off to the side because 12 you could see the steam blowing out of it, and I 13 remember specifically commenting to them that, you 14 know, that it wasn't safe to get up there to shut the 15 valve because, you know, first off there was enough 16 lagging and stuff still attached to the valve so you 17 really couldn't tell where the steam was coming from.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What' s lagging?
19 What is lagging?
20 MR. WHITE:
Lagging is, you know, the 21 thermal covering that --
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: The wrap like?
23 MR. WHITE: Yes, the stuff that you wrap 24 on the outside so that it doesn't get too hot and 25 people don't get burned and you don't lose heat NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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through.
2 Anyhow, the thermal lagging material that 3
was over the top of the thing was directing the steam 4
such that you really couldn't tell where it was coming 5
from.
You could tell it was coming from that valve 6
but you couldn't see what on that valve, and it was a 7
fairly good magnitude and it was blowing right on the 8
platform and across that platform where you could get 9
up to the valve.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Was the 11 steam hot enough that it would cause injury to people 12 temperature wise?
13 MR. WHITE:
I would say oh yes, certainly, 14 steam temperature 300, 400 degrees.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right that 16 answers my question.
17 MR. WHITE:
And it's blowing out of the 18 pipe, it was blowing out from underneath the lagging 19 and we couldn't tell where it was coming from because 20 nd I are standing there and it's noisy, but you 21 know we had a brief conversation saying that, boy, if 22 we could just somehow get it redirected such that we 23 could get safely get up there to shut that valve, and 24 you knew that the valve was intact, which we didn't 25 know at the time.
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And we decided, he and I talking, said, 2
well we can't get up there. I'm not going to safely, 3
I don't know that it's safe to send somebody up there 4
with the steam blowing off in the direction and stuff 5
that it was, because it was blowing right across the 6
platform over onto the switch gear right on the other 7
side of it.
8 And I said to F)you know we had a 9
discussion and we both agreed that you couldn't safely 10 get up there to shut that valve.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. So 12 you come to that conclusion after looking at the 13 steam?
14 MR. WHITE:
Right.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you then 16 come back to the control room with C
17 MR. WHITE:
That's correct.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What happened 19 next?
20 MR. WHITE: I don't remember if 9J ame 21 back to the control room with me at that time or not.
22 But I do specifically remember having a discussion 23 with him that it was not safe with that and that, you 24 know, somehow we could tell where the steam was coming 25 from and we could safely get up there and we knew that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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the valve was intact and wasn't going to fall apart 2
when we tried to manipulate the valve that we could 3
shut it.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
5 MR. WHITE:
And that's where we left.
6 There was a lot of ifs and we didn't think we could 7
get up there at the time and I proceeded back to the 8
control room and then
- I don't know where he c
9 went, whether he stayed out in the field or came back.
10 I went back and we talked it over with Van 11 and the decision was made that, you know, we didn't 12 think we could get up there safely so we weren't going 13 to attempt to shut the valve because we didn't know if 14 the thing was going to fall apart in your hand and is kill somebody.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
17 MR. WHITE:
And we made the decision we 18 were going to shut down.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Shut down the 20 plant?
MR. WHITE: Shut down the plant 21 right.
22 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Was that 23 decision made during a conference call with management 24 who was on site?
Do you recall what happened?
25 MR. WHITE:
No, I don't remember.
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in the control room, if there was a conference call 2
Van made it independent of me.
I was not involved in 3
any conference call with anybody other than who was in 4
the control room.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
6 MR. WHITE:
And I'm sure that 7
becaus ai and I agreed, you know, in our first look 8
at it when I was out in the field that we couldn't get 9
up there to get that valve shut.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
11 MR. WHITE:
And you know, that's the way 12 the conversation was left.
And then I went back to 13 the control room and we looked at our options.
We 14 made a decision, okay, we're going to start shutting 15 down the unit.
As a matter of fact, it's a fairly 16 complicated shutdown because of all the what-ifs with 17 the alarms that were in where the group buses may not 18 transfer when we get to the point we're going to take 19 the turbine off line and stuff like that. And we were 20 discussing a lot of contingencies.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
22 MR. WHITE:
So it was a fairly lengthy 23 brief which probably, I don't know, may have taken 15 24 or 20 minutes because like I said it was a fairly 25 complicated shutdown and there were a lot of things NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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that we were concerned about in the shutdown itself, 2
besides the fact that we had steam blowing out there.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you recall 4
being present for any discussion between Van and o
5 7'at the time period you're talking about now, 6
where m is telling Van, maybe it can be shut. I'm 7
not talking later in the shift now but talking right 8
about the time period where you're going into your 9
shift briefing. Do you recall them being present for 10 any discussion between the two of them regarding 11 whether it could or not be shut down?
That maybe 12 something changed?
13 MR.
WHITE:
Well, the only thing that I 14 knew was that my discussion with and that was 15 when we were out in the field, I don't remember 16 specifically talking, we may have talked, I don't 17 specifically remember that when we came back to the 18 control room.
19 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
My 20 question was --
21 MR. WHITE:
We bounced it back and forth, 22 you know, because obviously if I thought that we were 23 going to be able to shut it, I wouldn't be briefing 24 the shut, well I might have been briefing some stuff 25 but not shutting the plant down.
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SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: My question was 2
do you recall being present for any discussion that 3
may have occurred betwee nd Van around the time 4
you're giving the shift briefing where they're talking 5
more about can it be closed, it's unsafe to close it?
6 MR. WHITE:
I don't remember that.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
Well 8
tell me what you specifically remember next.
9 MR. WHITE: Well here's what I recall. So 10 I went into the lengthy brief and I thought Van was in 11 the control room during that time.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
13 MR. WHITE: And I don't remember if 14 stuck his head in because I was involved in the 15 procedures and talking to the ROs and who was going to 16 do what in the course of the shutdown.
17 And when I got done with the brief because 18 it was right as I said that's the end of the brief, 19 you know, we're going to get into the shutdown, 20 somebody walked into the control room, and I don't 21 remember who, whether it was Van or whether it was 22 somebody walked in and said, hey, the 23 valve's shut.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
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there and looking at it or attempting to shut it?
2 MR. WHITE: Well I knew that we had people 3
down there looking at it, and who was there at what 4
specific time, we were looking at it for a chance, you 5
know, with conditions changed.
And my understanding 6
and talking, because I discussed it with 7
afterwards, you know, I said what happened? How did 8
the valve get shut?
Because we discussed it.
We 9
wanted to shut the valve, I remember specifically 10 talking to him during our discussion when we were out 11 in the field looking at it that we wanted to do that 12 if we thought it was safe to do so.
13 And I was told that what had happened, and 14 this was I'm pretty sure it was that was 15 telling me, that the lagging that was on the valve had 16 blown off, and he could clearly see where the leak was 17 coming from.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
19 MR. WHITE:
And based on the change in 20 conditions, and I think what he described is it 21 changed the direction that the steam was blowing also.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
23 MR. WHITE:
So he could tell that the 24 valve was intact and it was blowing such that he was 25 able, or somebody was able, and I didn't realize it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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was~
>himself.
I understand it w himself 2
that shut the valve, saw that the conditions had 3
changed and then he proceeded to do what we had talked 4
about that we'd like to do if we could get up there.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
6 MR. WHITE:
Now, as I said, I was in the 7
brief for the shutdown, I did not specifically give a B
direction, or no one came in and says, hey, the 9
condition's changed, we think we can get to the valve, 10 we'd like to shut the valve.
I did not say go shut 11 the valve to anybody.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
13 MR. WHITE: The first indication that the 14 valve was actually being shut was when somebody came 15 in, as soon as I finished the brief and said, "Hey, 16 the valve's shut."
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: The valve is 18 shut?
19 MR.
WHITE:
Right. And you know it was a 20 sigh of relief on my part because I'm thinking, man, 21 this is going to be complicated.
There's a lot of 22 parallel in this thing and all of a sudden somebody 23 walked in and said it was, you know, the valve had 24 been shut and it was isolated.
25 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: You mentioned NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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that after learning it was
- shut, you had a 2
conversation with about how it happened?
3 MR. WHITE: I'm fairly certain that it was 4
t that I was talking to.
If it was right then I 5
don't know, but at some later time I know I talked to 6
him specifically about it because, you know, I thought 7
what change 8
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Let's go talk 9
about that conversation then.
10 MR. WHITE:
Okay.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: How much later 12 did this conversation occur which you're going to 13 describe now?
14 MR. WHITE:
I believe it was shortly 15 thereafter.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
During the 17 shift?
18 MR. WHITE:
Oh. yes it was during that 19 shift. I knew that the lagging had moved, that he had 20 been able to see where the steam was coming from, and 21 I felt it was safe to get up there.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
During that 23 conversation did tell you that he had 24 communicated that to Van, that information to Van j %t 25 before going to shut the valve?
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MR. WHITE: You know, I don't remember him 2
saying yes or no. He may have, I don't remember that, 3
because my recollection was during the whole time, I 4
thought Van was in the control room the whole time but 5
you know, like I said, I was engrossed in the briefing 6
in the shutdown, I thought he was standing off to the 7
side where we were briefing it.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
or Van?
9 MR. WHITE: Van.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
11 MR. WHITE:
I don't believe A was in 12 the control room most of the time, or at all, until 13 right at the end of the brief.
14 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
In the 15 discussion which you just described with 16 at any point during that discussion did it come up on 17 whether or not 0 ad informed Van Ford of what he 18 was going to do before he did it?
19 MR. WHITE: I don't remember that. He may 20 have said it, I don't remember that specifically.
I 21 mean like I said, it was two years ago, I don't 22 remember if he specifically said he told Van. He may 23 have.
I can't say that for a fact because I don't 24 remember him specifically saying that he told Van that 25 he was going to go shut the valve. I thought Van was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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in the control room to tell you the truth.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Well I believe 3
Van was in the control room for the majority of this 4
time that this whole sequence was going on.
But at 5
any point did you have a discussion with Van Ford 6
about how that occurred, how the closing had occurred 7
and what he knew and what he didn't know about it?
8 MR. WHITE:
I'm trying to think if I 9
talked to Van about it or if it was J
or it may 10 have been both at the same time, I don't remember.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right, let 12 me ask you this point blank question.
At any point 13 did you have a discussion with either of those two 14 people where they each said, where Van 'would have 15 said, I didn't kno was going to do that before 16 he did it, or whereli said I told Van what I was 17 going to do before I did what I did?
18 MR.
WHITE:
I don't remember specifically 19 discussing that with me who told anybody, because I 20 thought, to tell you the truth I thought Van was in 21 the control room the whole time when the valve was --
22 23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
You keep saying I
24 that.
Why are you saying I thought Van was in the 25 control room? Why is that?
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MR.
WHITE:
Well I thought he was there 2
when we were briefing the shutdown the whole time.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
All 4
right.
5 MR. WHITE:
That's why I believed he was 6
in the control room. I didn't think he was out in the 7
field when the valve got shut, I don't know if he was 8
or not.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
10 MR.
WHITE:
You know, he wouldn't 11 necessarily have to be there but I thought he was 12 standing off to the side in the control room when I 13 was doing the brief.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well why do you 15 keep bringing up the fact that you think Van was in 16 the control room? Why do you think that's relevant?
17 MR. WHITE: Well that's where I thought he 18 was.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
Right.
20 MR. WHITE: I don't know, I mean is there 21 an issue that --
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:. The question is 23 Van Ford the shift manager, he's responsible for the 24 shift, did he know what" was going to do 25 beforeo* )did it?
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MR. WHITE:
I don't know, you'll have to 2
ask Van that.
I mean he would be the best --
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you have any 4
knowledge of whether or not he knew or not?
5 MR. WHITE: I don't specifically have any 6
knowledge of that.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
Right.
8 I mean just think about it this way, the control 9
room's going one way, is there a rogue employee out in 10 the plant doing something that the control room in the 11 form of Van Ford doesn't know about, that's the issue.
12 MR. WHITE:
See I don't know.
I don't 13 know i I alked to Van or Van talked to 14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
15 Let's move on then, I think we've beaten that one up 16 pretty good.
17 MR. WHITE:
That's the best I can do 18 because I don't remember where everybody specifically 19 was located the whole time.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you recall 21 being present for any conversation where Van Ford is 22 questioning the safety of closing the valve, whether 23 it was safe or not, from a personal standpoint?
24 MR. WHITE: Well yes, we did discuss that 25 early on after when we came back and we made the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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32 1
decision, you know, when I was briefing, before I 2
briefed the shutdown that, hey, we don't think we can 3
safely get up there.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
5 MR.
WHITE:
We did discuss that 6
specifically, that's why we made the decision which 7
way we were going to go with the plan.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Which was to 9
shut it down?
10 MR. WHITE: Which was to shut it down and 11 obviously conditions must have changed, as I said, 12 from my understanding.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: At some point 14 did the control room swap over the feed pumps? Do you 15 remember if that occurred or not?
16 MR. WHITE:
Swapped over the feed pumps?
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
18 MR. WHITE:
Hmmm.
What do you mean by 19 swapped over? Both feed pumps were still running at 20 the time.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Let me 22 take a short break and I'll pull out some testimony 23 that might help you understand what the issue is here.
24 MR. WHITE: Okay. Yes, okay.
I mean I'm 25 not sure I understand what the issue is on that.
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SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 10:36, let 2
me go off the record for a minute.
3 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter went off 4
the record at 10:36 a.m. and went back on 5
the record at 10:50 a.m.)
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
It's 7
almost 10:50 in the morning and we had a somewhat 8
lengthy discussion about the steam valves and the 9
swapping of the valves.
Do you recall there being 10 discussion that night on shift about having to swap 11 these valves?
If you do, tell me what you remember 12 about that.
13 MR.
WHITE:
- Well, the only thing I 14 remember specifically about feed pumps is there's two 15 steam sources that come to the feed pump, one is bleed 16 steam and one is main steam.
And we did discuss, I 17 believe we discussed during the course of the 18 briefings the fact that if that valve did get shut, 19 that that would take away one of the two steam 20 sources, the main steam source. The main steam source 21 is not what's normally powering those feed pumps when 22 we were at the power level we were at.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
24 MR. WHITE: So bleed steam was powering it 25 so you could shut that valve it should not have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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affected anything, I believe. I'd have to go back and 2
look at all the procedures just to make sure because 3
I don't have any of that stuff in front of me right 4
now.
But that was the only thing that I remember 5
specifically discussing about the fact that one of the 6
steam sources would have been isolated if we could get 7
the valve shut.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Do you 9
recall if was proving any direction to 10 any of the ROs about what you just described?
11 MR. WHITE:
No.
didn't 12 provide any in the control room, provided no direction 13 to anybody.
I mean he didn't have command and 14 control, he wouldn't have done that and I certainly 15 would have remembered that if he had.
I'm pretty 16 sensitive about that stuff.
17 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
18 MR. WHITE: You know, when I have command 19 and control and, somebody else comes in and wants to 20 take the watch, they'd better, you know, follow the 21 appropriate procedures to take the watch when they 22 start giving direction, the guys that work for me.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did that occur 24 at all that night?
25 MR. WHITE:
It did not.
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SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
2 MR. WHITE:
No one came in the control 3
room and no one gave direction to anybody in the 4
control room that didn't go through me, including Van.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. Did 6
come through you to give direction to any 7
of the ROs to do what we just talked about?
8 MR. WHITE:
Swapping the feed pump steam 9
over?
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
11 MR. WHITE: If he did, I certainly was not 12 aware of it.
Now as in and out of the control 13 room several times in the course of events that night, 14 you know, if he did, I was not aware of him telling an 15 RO to do anything.
And if he had, I'm sure I would 16 have said something to him and said, okay, you know, 17 what are we trying to do?
And make sure that I was 18 the guy that was giving the direction to the operators 19 not him, he knows he's not supposed to do that.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you know who 21 Bob Cordury (PHONETIC) is?
22 MR. WHITE:
Yes.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you recall k 24 him being on duty that night?
25 MR. WHITE: Yes.
Bob was on Bravo shift NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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at the time.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
3 MR. WHITE: I don't remember what capacity 4
he was that night, whether he was at work control or 5
where he was.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
7 MR. WHITE:
I believe in the course of 8
various things going in, I believe he was out in the 9
field at some time and looked at the steam leak.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Did you 11 have any discussions with Bob Cordury regarding the 12 closing of this valve after you learned it was closed?
13 That night do you recall --
14 MR. WHITE:
I'm trying to remember if I 15 talked to Bob about it.
I can't remember talking to 16 Bob that night.
I have talked to Bob subsequently, I 17 can't say for sure if it was that night.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well tell me --
19 MR. WHITE:
Bob was down there or in the 20 vicinity, I think, when the valve was closed.
That 21 was my understanding.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Tell me 23 what you and Bob talked about and what he said he saw 24 and heard? Can you remember?
25 MR. WHITE:
Well, I think he pretty much NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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described the same thing that did, you know, 2
something happened, it was obvious where the steam was 3
coming from and that, you know, it may even have been 4
him that I was talking to when I actually knew that 5
was the guy who puts hands on valve, 6
because I believe he was down there whenever that 7
happened.
I mean he was not --
Bob was not in a 8
command and control position at the time, so I mean he 9
wouldn't have been giving him permission or anything 10 to do anything with that valve.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right. Did Bob 12 speak to whether or no hd told Van Ford 13 about what he was going to do? Did he discuss that at 14 all with you? His knowledge of --
15 MR. WHITE:
I don't remember that. He may 16 have at some point and, quite frankly, I don't 17 remember to this day whethe pecifically talked 18 to Van. I was under the impression he had not, but he 19 may have.
20 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right. Why?
21 MR. WHITE:
Because as I said because I 22 thought Van was in the control room when I was 23 briefing the shutdown. As the shift manager he would 24 normally be there, and I just thought he was. I can't 25 swear that he-was but I thought he was in the control NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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room during at least most of the briefing for the 2
shutdown.
3 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
My 4
understanding is the control room was operating under 5
the AB steam procedure, okay?
6 MR. WHITE:
That is probably true.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
8 MR. WHITE: I'm sure we were in some kind 9
of an AS knowing what the magnitude of the steam leak 10 was.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Had you begun 12 to enter the shutdown procedures yet --
13 MR. WHITE:
Had not.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
when you 15 learned that the valve was shut?
16 MR. WHITE:
No.
We had not --
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
Just 18 finished the briefing right?
19 MR. WHITE: My recollection is I had just 20 finished the brief and somebody, it was either Van 21 Ford o
_that came in and said that valve 22 was closed. And I think it was Van, but how he found 23 that out I don't know, or when he found it out.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
25 MR. WHITE:
I think it was Van but once NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 11 39 again I can't swear, there were so many, there were people walking in and out of the control room and I'm pretty sure that Van was the one that told me. That's when I found out that the valve was shut. Now whether
§-caame up and told him in the control room or not I don't know.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
You're in the AB steam procedure?
MR. WHITE:
Correct.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Is it allowed in that procedure to isolate the valve manually like did? Is it allowed by that procedure or do you have to go to another procedure to do that, to actually do it?
'l-MR. WHITE:
I'd have to look at the exact wording in there, but I'm fairly certain that somewhere it tells you that if you can find the source and isolate it, you do that.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
MR. WHITE:
Now exactly what step that would have been in the AB, I mean I'd have to go look at the AB, but somewhere in the AB there is something that tells you if you can isolate the steam to isolate it.
SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
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lengthy procedure?
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Yes.
4 MR. WHITE: Not real long. I mean AB wise 5
most ABs you know, it's not that too involved I don't 6
think.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Would it be a 8
violation of anything if you provided a copy of that 9
procedure to me or the residents and they can send it 10 up to me?
11 MR. WHITE:
I don't see why it would be.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
I don't think 13 so either.
14 MR. WHITE:
I can't think of any reason, 15 as a matter of fact I'm surprised that you don't have 16 it.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Well it's 18 coming back up in my head now that maybe that' s 19 something that needs to be looked at.
20 MR. WHITE:
Yes.
You know, I would have 21 to look.
I would think that in the continuous action 22 summary or some place it's going to tell you, if you 23 know where the leak is, isolate it.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
Okay.
25 MR. WHITE:
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that's in there, exactly how it's worded and stuff 2
anymore I don't remember.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well let me get 4
back to you because I'm going to ask you to do that, 5
I'll get back to you okay?
6 MR. WHITE: Yes that would be --
as far as 7
I can see I don't see that that's a problem.
I can 8
fax it to you or however you want to get it.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
10 MR.
WHITE:
Now the other thing to 11 remember, that was two years ago and I'm not really 12 certain that procedure has been revised.
13 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
14 Probably.
15 MR. WHITE: I think we can go back in the 16 archives and find it in the NCR --
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Get the regs.
18 MR. WHITE:
And find out what reg was in 19 effect that day and pull the actual procedure.
You 20 know, probably the actual procedure is somewhere 21 archived but that would be probably not too easy to 22 pull back out.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. How 24 about we take a short break and we should finish up in 25 about 15 minutes or so?
Okay?
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MR.
WHITE:
That's fine, sure.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I want to look 3
at something quick and I just need a couple of 4
minutes.
It's almost 11 o'clock and we're going to 5
take a break off the record.
6 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter went off 7
the record at 11:00 a.m. and went back on 8
the record at 11:45 a.m.)
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
We're 10 back on the record, it's almost quarter of twelve.
11 The break was somewhat lengthy because they had a 12 second fire alarm here at TB2, we had to evacuate the 13 building.
The Fire Department had to come and check 14 the whole building out so we just got back in the 15 building, I don't know, five-minutes or so and we were 16 just discussing things off the record.
17 But now we're back on the record and 18 during the fire drill, Bill, did you have a chance to 19 review the AB procedure?
20 MR. WHITE: Yes I reviewed the AB Steam 1.
21 As a matter of fact, the copy that I'm looking at is 22 the actual copy because it's got my initials and times 23 that I'd noted on there the night that we did it. And 24 I also looked at the control room log for that night, 25 as well as reviewed some of, not every one of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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things in the NAP 5 procedure which talks about 2
conduct of operations.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATORR: Based on your 4
review of the documents which you just described, does 5
that refresh your memory or change anything you told 6
me?
7 MR. WHITE:
Yes.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
If so, or if 9
you want to add something now please go ahead.
10 MR. WHITE: The only real thing it changes 11 is that to tell you the truth until I looked at the 12 log I forgot that we had already reduced power to 47 13 percent, and we only needed one feed pump at the time 14 to be able to operate the plant. And that the 22 feed 15 pump we knew that was where the leak was coming from.
16
- However, as I said, we were in the process of 17 briefing, we were at 47 percent power while we were 18 doing the brief to get ready to take the unit off line 19 and reduce power the rest of the way down, take the 20 turbine off line and shut the main steam isolation 21 valves, which would have been the only way to isolate 22 that valve without shutting the valve itself, as 23 occurred.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
25 MR. WHITE:
And then, you know, I mean NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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essentially the rest of the stuff I don't see any 2
change in what I saw. During the course of the brief, 3
as I indicated
- before,
- we generally don't do 4
manipulations and I don't believe we were doing 5
anything with the feed pump to get ready to take it 6
off line.
7 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
That goes to 8
the swap question I brought up earlier?
9 MR. WHITE: To the swap question that you 10 brought up earlier.
You know, I can't say for sure 11 that we hadn't discussed anything in the course of the 12 many things that we discussed during the shutdown, but 13 I'm fairly confident we weren't doing any 14 manipulations because it's not our practice during 15 briefings of that nature that the reactor operator or 16 the plant operator would do any manipulations on the 17 control board to shut any, you know, to swap anything 18 around.
19 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
If that 20 manipulation did occur at some point during the shift, 21 would it be required to put that in the control room 22 log?
23 MR. WHITE:
It would not necessarily be 24 logged and, as a matter of fact, I looked through the 25 log and I didn't see that we annotated that we had NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 R4ODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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done anything with respect to SOCN2, which would have 2
been the procedure, to shift any steam around.
3 And we did take, eventually we did trip 4
the feed pump but that was some 40 minutes or so, 5
actually 50 minutes after we'd already isolated the 6
steam leak.
So that feed pump was operating off of 7
the bleed steam side of it and that, you know, we were 8
at reduced capacity anyhow so we were certainly able 9
to handle it at that power level.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. The AB 11 steam procedure, and we had the one section out where 12 it talks about right before you're notified that the 13 valve was isolated, where does that step say 3.39?
14 Can you read that for me, please?
15 MR. WHITE: Yes, 3.39 says, "Is the steam 16 leak isolable or repairable in the present plant 17 conditions?" Now that question was answered twice in 18 the course of this.
At 0016 I initially annotated 19 that that was a no to that step and it tells me to go 20 to the step 3.42, which is the reduced power in 21 accordance with -- and that was the procedures that we 22 were briefing, that's the shutdown briefing.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
24 MR. WHITE: Minimal load to hot standby, 25 and it tells you ultimately we were going to shut the NEAL R. GROSS
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main steam isolation valves in the course of the 2
shutdown.
3 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
And section 4
3.40, how does that read?
5 MR.
WHITE:
3.40 said, "Isolate or repair 6
the steam leak." And that section was signed off, you 7
know, the question is 3.39 is the steam leak isolable 8
and repairable in present plan conditions? And then 9
at 0050 and I go back and look at the log, I've 10 annotated in the AB itself at 0050 I'd said yes.
It 11 is isolable. Conditions changed, I went back to that 12 step and said that has changed and we should follow 13 the other path through the procedure at that time.
14 And that's customary, the way the 15 procedure flows if something had changed then I would 16 go back and annotate it at that time, and that's when 17 I knew that something was different, that we now knew 18 it was isolable. And looking at the control room log 19 for that night, at 0050 that's the team that I was 20 notified that the 22MS42 is closed and the steam leak 21 is stopped and the plan is to hold power there.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So at that step 23 in the procedure is closing that valve still allowed 24 by that procedure based on your review of it?
25 MR. WHITE: Yes, if the answer to this was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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yes at that time.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
3 MR. WHITE:
The thing that's I guess 4
specific about this I didn't know that we could go 5
back and answer that yes until 0050 when the valve was 6
already closed.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
But 8
could a plant condition have changed in-between 0016 9
and 0050?
10 MR. WHITE:
Oh yes, and my understanding 11 that the plant condition had changed was that the 12 source of the leak and the condition of the valve 13 became recognizable to the person that was out in the 14 field.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Was there a 16 discussion earlier in the shift between yourself and 17 t
regarding whether the valve could be shut {
18 or not and, if it could be, whether that was desirable 19 or not?
20 MR. WHITE:
Yes.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Can you just 22 reiterate what that was?
23 MR. WHITE: Yes I'll go over that again.
24 Dand I earlier in the shift prior to the 0016 when 25 we made tha decision and then I started the brief, he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 8 1
and I jointly went out in the field and looked at the 2
valve.
I had Van Ford go up, he was in the control 3
room so I could go out in the field during that time 4
frame.
5 And and I looked at the valve and 6
looked at, you know, and we did say, I did tell him 7
that it would be advantageous that we'd want to shut 8
that valve if we could safely get to it.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
10 MR.
WHITE:
That was our discussion.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
12 MR. WHITE:
And my understanding was at 13 the later time, at the time that I found out it was 14 now isolable, when I found out it was it was already 15 isolated.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
17 MR. WHITE:
But apparently Q in his 18 evaluation, because he was the guy out in the field, 19 looked at it and now said, oh I can get up there 20 safely now.
Now I can see what's going on with the 21 valve, the lagging, he could see the lagging.
He 22 thought specifically that he could see that the leak 23 was coming from a flanged area, there was a piece of 24 the gasket material looked like it had been blown out 25 in that one section, and it probably wasn't very big, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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and it was directing the steam in a different 2
direction from when he and I had been out in the field 3
earlier and looked at it, and that he felt it could 4
safely be approached.
5 And, as we said, my understanding is that 6
he actually did it, he actually shut the valve himself 7
when he saw that he could get up there.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
9 MR. WHITE:
And to me personally in the 10 control room he did not communicate to me that he was 11 going to do that at that time, although we had 12 discussed earlier that that was what we would like to 13 do if we could access to the valve.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
Okay.
15 Are you aware of any information that leads you to 16 believe that deliberately violated any 17 station procedure that night in what he did?
And 18 again the word is deliberately violated?
19 MR.
WHITE:
I don't believe that 20 deliberately violated-it. I believe that he was out 21 in the field and he saw that the conditions had 22 changed, as we ha discussed earlier, had hoped that 23 they would change, or if we were standing there and it 24 had changed to that condition it would have probably 25 gone down differently.
I personally would not have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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operated the valve, I'm the CRS on duty, I don't do 2
that kind of stuff when I'm the guy that's in the 3
chain of command for sure.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
5 MR. WHITE: I would have proceeded back to 6
the control room to make sure the control room, that's 7
me.
He may have gotten the impression from our 8
discussion that that was, you know, what I would have 9
liked to have had done because that's what I said we'd 10 like to do.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Like to do 12 meaning close the valve?
13 MR. WHITE:
To get the valve closed.
14 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
If the 15 conditions --
16 MR. WHITE:
If we could get up there.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Safely?
18 MR. WHITE: Right, and that's specifically 19 what we said.
If we could get up there safely and 20 that we knew the valve wasn't going to fall apart in 21 our hands, then we would shut the valve.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
Okay.
23 MR. WHITE:
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that we had talked about, that he and I had talked 2
about, so he may have felt that he had, you know, 3
obtained my permission, and in a kind of a way he did 4
earlier because we said, hey, that's what we want to 5
do.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
7 MR. WHITE: And I could see his -- saying, 8
jeez, you know I discussed it with the CRS that we 9
would like to shut the valve.
But that was you know 10 time early, and some time later, what, 40 minutes?
11 Thirty minutes later.
12 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
You think it 13 was only 30 minutes from the time you were out there 14 with 15 MR. WHITE: Well I'm thinking that because 16 the time I wrote down here in 0016 when we made, when 17 I said, hey, we're going to go to the reduced power 18 step and started some time after that we started the 19 brief, so it would have been a little bit before that 20 and I see at 0050, which is about a little over 30 21 minutes from the time that I went back to the control 22 room and started briefing the shutdown, that's when 23 the valve actually got shut.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
25 MR. WHITE: So we discussed approximately NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 to 40 minutes before the valve got shut that that's 2
what we would like to do if we could get access to 3
that valve.
4 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
5 MR.
WHITE:
Now at the time I did not 6
specifically say, 9 I want you to shut the valve 7
or any specific words to that effect, but I could see 8
certainly that he'd get the impression that I wanted 9
that valve shut.
10 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Is there 11 anything else you'd like to add today? I don't think 12 I have any other questions at this time. I might have 13 some follow up ones; if I do, can I call you?
14 MR. WHITE: Yes certaii'ly.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
16 MR. WHITE:
As I
said, I never have 17 anything to hide and command and control was where I 18 lived for the last 30 years, you know. I didn't feel 19 too uncomfortable with what transpired until later on 20 some of the discussions said, well maybe he should 21 have called me before he'd shut the valve.
22 And in hindsight, if it was me out in the 23 field and I was doing it today, I would call the 24 control room before I did that and I probably wouldn't 25 do it myself.
But that's just me.
I was never an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS ANDk TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
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operator at this plant.
I don't operate equipment; 2
I'm not supposed to operate equipment.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you feel 4
that, I mean that night after you learned that 5
had closed the valve, did you feel that he had 6
violated your command and/or control of the plant and 7
the operators in the plant?
8 MR. WHITE: Well, I felt that he didn't do 9
anything that I didn't want to have done.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
11 MR. WHITE:
And there are didn't and 12 don'ts in there.
I did not, as I said earlier, I did 13 not specifically give him direction to shut the valve 14 at any time.
But in our discussion I can certainly 15 see where he got the impression that if that valve 16 would get shut, because we talked about it, if we shut 17 it, what the consequences were, you know, what the 18 steam source is for the steam pump or for the feed 19 pump.
20 And I was fairly confident in our 21 discussion that shutting that valve would have no 22 effect on anything in the plant.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
24 MR. WHITE:
The plant would continue to 25 operate just the way it did.
The only difference is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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I wouldn't have that, you know, in our case I mean 2
even though there's a lot of steam coming out, we 3
never really saw anything that would indicate that it 4
was affecting, you know, reactivity or reactor power 5
or anything.
6 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
7 MR. WHITE: And there was a lot of steam 8
but it would be directed at a switch board which was 9
the biggest concern probably. I didn't know what the 10 heck was going to happen with the switch boards, you 11 know, and that's why I was anxious, I was anxious to 12 get the valve isolated.
I mean from a plant control 13 standpoint, I think there's good reason to think that 14 we wanted that valve shut, and it needed to be shut 15 because that steam was blowing towards the switch 16 boards.
17 And I don't know what direction it 18 changed, if it changed direction, which apparently it 19 did whenever the lagging blew off and stuff, it may 20 have been directed more towards the switch boards. I 21 don't know.
Like I said, I wasn't there whenever he 22 made the decision he could gain access.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Bill, is 24 there anything more you want to add?
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else. Like I said, if you have any other questions or 2
anything, you know, I've said a lot of stuff today.
3 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Yes, we've 4
talked quite a bit.
5 MR. WHITE: And we went back and forth as 6
to, you know, and it certainly changed my recollection 7
after I got a chance to look at the logs and stuff 8
after two years.
But yes, please call me or send me 9
an e-mail or call the resident or whatever you need.
10 SR.
SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay, I'll do 11 that.
12 MR. WHITE:
I certainly will answer 13 whatever you want to know.
But to the best of my 14 knowledge that's exactly what occurred in the command 15 and control aspects. I mean I guess that's really the 16 question.
Whether or not he had to at the time and 17 what his impression was, I don't know. Only can 18 answer what his impressions were about what our 19 discussion meant to him because I wasn't there when he 20 shut the valve.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Is it your 22 opinion that 9had to inform the control room 23 before he closed it, or he should have?
24 MR. WHITE: From a pure standpoint, he had 25 to tell us. I think that he thought that he did, and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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the fact that we'd discussed it earlier, that's what 2
I think.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
4 MR. WHITE: But you know I don't know what 5
went on in 3
head.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I'm asking your 7
opinion.
8 MR.
WHITE:
It's my opinion that he 9
thought he had the go ahead to shut the valve at the 10 time he was shutting the valve because we had 11 discussed all the ramifications.
I was the CRS on 12 duty he had told me, maybe he felt that I'd already 13 told the control room I was going to shut the valve, 14 you know, you'll have to ask w specifically what jc-15 was in his mind at the time.
But certainly I could 16 see where he might have gotten the impression that I 17 had given the go ahead, even though that was 30 or 40 18 minutes before that that I wanted that valve shut.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
I guess the 20 procedure reads, "if plant conditions change." Isn't 21 that part of the wording in the AB procedure?
22 MR. WHITE:
Let's see.
Well it doesn't 23 specifically say that, but plant conditions did 24 change, that's why I went back to this step again and 25 said --
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