ML062000326
| ML062000326 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Salem, Hope Creek  |
| Issue date: | 05/20/2004 |
| From: | NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 1-2003-045, FOIA/PA-2005-0194 | |
| Download: ML062000326 (100) | |
Text
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'UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 . . . . .
4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW 6------------------------------- x 7 IN THE MATTER OF:
8 INTERVIEW OF Docket No.
9/
,~I 1-2003-0 45 10 (CLOSED) 11-----------------------------------x 12 13 Thursday, May 20, 2004 14 Salem Hope Creek Station 15 Human Resources Conferenc e Room 16 TB-2 Building 17 Hancocks Bridge, New Jer*sey 18 19 The above-entitled interview was con ducted 20 at 12:52 p.m.
21 22 BEFORE:
23 Senior Special Agent JEFFREY TEATOR 24 C Information in tI' re4I was deleted in accordance with the Freedom of Information AIct eeto - q COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 APPEARANCES:
2 On behalf of 1m"ftjj!and PSEG Services:
3 MR. JEFFREY KEENAN 4 Assistant General Solicitor 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P-R-0-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 12:52 p.m.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Today's date is 4 May 20th, the year is 2004. My name is Jeffrey 5 Teator, I'm a Senior Special Agent with the NRC's 6 Office of Investigations, and it's about 12:52 in the 7 afternoon.
8 And today I'm interviewing 9 This interview is taking place in a Conference Room in 10 the Human Resources Department in the Building TB-2, 11 located at Salem Hope Creek Nuclear Generating Station 12 in Hancocks Bridge, New Jersey.
13 prior to going on the record, 14 did I explain to you this is a voluntary interview?
15 L Yes, you did.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, knowing 17 it's voluntary, do you wish to go forward?
18Yes, I do.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, do you 20 have any objection today to providing sworn testimony?
21 .) Not at all.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Raise your right 23 hand for me please? do you swear that the 24 information that you are about to provide to me is the 25 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?
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4 1 l w'-N That's correct, I do.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, thank you.
3 you're being interviewed as a witness this 4 afternoon, in an investigation I'm conducting into 5 whether there was a violation of 10 CFR 50.7, that's 6 the Employee Protection Regulation of the NRC's 7 Employee Protection Regulation.
8 And an allegation has been brought to the 9 Commission that Kim Harbin, her position was 10 eliminated because she engaged in an NRC protected 11 activity, meaning she raised safety concerns.
12 And also that her last day here on-site 13 was moved up from April 16, 2003, until March 28, 14 2003, because she engaged in protected activity or 15 raised safety concerns.
16 Those are two areas I'm going to be 17 talking to you about. Again, you're being interviewed 18 as a witness, and you're represented by Counsel today.
19 If Counsel could identify himself for the record 20 please, and explain his representation.
21 MR. KEENAN: Yes, my name is Jeff Keenan.
22 I'm Assistant General Solicitor with PSEG Services.
23 Today I'm representing0 Wand PSEG Nuclear in
.24 a joint and dual capacity.
25 I have reviewed the information relative NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 1 to the concern in this event, and I have not detected 2 a conflict of interest. If a conflict arises, we'll 3 take a break from the record and figure out how to 4 best handle that.
5 We appreciate the opportunity to provide 6 this testimony today, and we would like the 7 opportunity to review our transcript at a mutually 8 convenient time, later on.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.I s 10 that your understanding of the representation?
11 It is.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, I just 13 have a few follow-up questions on that. Does your 14 employer require you to have an attorney represent you 15 when you're interviewed by the Office of 16 Investigations?
17 No.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Were you in any 19 way threatened with any type of adverse action by your 20 employer, if you did not request Counsel to represent 21 you during this interview?
22 No.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you 24 understand that you have the right to a private 25 interview, with me, if you wanted one?
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6 X
1 .. . Yes, I understand th at.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay . knowing 3 all this, do you wish to go forward witii Counsel 4 present?
5 *Yes, I do.
- can 6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
7 you state your full name for the record p lease and 8 spell your last name?
9 Sure.
10 11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, and your 12 date and place of birth, please?
13 Place of birth,.=
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All riý tht. Your 16 Social Security Number, please?
17 18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And you r current 19 home address?
20 Current address,(
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Thank Nrou. Your 23 home phone number, please?
24 ) Area code.
25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Did you 1-Vt*
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7 1 ever serve in the United States military?
2 No, I have not.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. And 4 have you attended college?
5 Yes.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Which school?
7 8
9 11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: What's your 12 bachelor's degree in?
13 14 15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And your masters 16 is in what?
tr 17) 18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, at some 19 point were you hired to work here at Salem Hope Creek 20 Nuclear Generating Station?
21 That's correct.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: When was that?
23 24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And do you know 25 what you were hired as?
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8 1
2 3 .bu. bu the function is essentially the 4 same.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. And since 6 "N have you remained continuously employed 7 here at Salem Hope Creek?
I-aaY. ies, I have.
8 9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, have you 10 always worked in the HR arena down here?
11
)Aa Yes. Yes, I have.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I guess, well, 13 what's your current job title?
14 15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. I'm going 16 to be talking about, I guess a couple of periods in 17 time here. But, in 2001, through March, end of March, 18 '03, what would your job title have been then?
19 20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. And why 21 did you leave, when did you stop being the site("
22 23 Last month, April of 2004, as 24 a result of a reorg. There was organizational changes 25 and I returned to the former classification o*wi
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9 19 2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Was your 3 change in position related in any way to Kim Harbin's 4 position elimination or the moving up of her last day 5 here at the site?
6 No, it was not.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Anything to do 8 with that at all?
9 one.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, thank you.
11 And as the site , could you give me a 12 description of what your responsibilities were in that 13 position?
14 Sure. At the time, the site(
15 the function has changed most recently, but 16 at the time in charge of all the HR facilities, HR 17 functions for the site.
18 So I oversaw the industrial relations 19 function, employee relations, staffing, recruiting and 20 related assignments.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And when you 22 were the site [*phonetic) 23 work for you?
24 :)Yes, was one of the persons 25 that worked for me.
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10 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And who would 2 you have reported to as a site Who was 3 your boss?
4 :i)Actually there were two at the 5 time. The first one was 6
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
8 Ag)\left, I believe, in the 9 early 2002 time frame, and late 2002 time frame, 10 came on as the site, 11 excuse me, 12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Power mean, 13 stand for?
14 Power stands for the entity of 15 fossil, nuclear and trading.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And when did 17 take over for &again?
18 I believe it was roughly about 19 the August, 2002 time frame. Somewhere around there-20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, thank you.
21 All right. I guess the first area I want to explore 22 with you are some general questions about Kim Harbin, 23 if we could. Do you know who Kim is?
- >Yes, I do.
24 25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And when did you
'.7/
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11 I first meet her, do you remember?
2 0Probably '99, 2000 time frame.
3 She was hired in corporate and on loan down at 4 nuclear.
/
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, we're 6 going to talk about that change in a few minutes. Her 7 coming from corporate down to nuclear.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. But 10 first I want to cover a couple of other things. At 11 any point after Kim came down here to work, whether it 12 was after the formal transfer or before that.
13 Because I believe she was working here 14 before she was formally transferred tor."
15 group, right?
16 -That'scorrect, yes.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: At some point 18 were there concerns or complaints brought to your 19 attention regarding Kim Harbin and the way she was 20 doing her business down here?
21 I that's pretty general but, or complaints 22 about how she treated individuals? Her holding 23 meetings and people coming out of meetings crying?
24 Stuff like that. Were issues like that 25 brought to your attention?
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12 1 here were issues. You first 2 characterized it as complaints, I don't know that I 3 would characterize it as a complaint.
4 But there were issues raised about her 5 interpersonal skills and maybe her effectiveness, if 6 that's where you're going.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well, I was 8 pretty specific. About one issue, from what I've been 9 able to understand, there was at least one meeting 10 held where Kim was part of the meeting, or maybe even 11 running the meeting, where there were a number of 12 people who were either crying during the course of the 13 meeting or who were crying after the meeting.
14 And that was an issue that, that at least 15 some people were aware of. Were you aware of this 16 particular (inaudible).
17 .)(Inaudible) 18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, well 19 why don't you tell me about what issues were brought 20 to you attention regarding how, Kim's interactions 21 with people, first, and then we'll talk about her 22 effectiveness second.
23 Okay. These are general 24 issues, I don't know that I would characterize them as 25 formal complaints.
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13 1 Formal complaints by my definition, means 2 that I have to take official action from the point of 3 the company, so I'll just call them interpersonal 4 issues.
5 They were kind of varied over a course of 6 years. Let me just see if I can pick a couple of 7 them. We had one manager, sometime ago she had 8 mentioned that Kim was working within outage-related 9 work.
10 She heard that they needed to clean the 11 turbine deck, and she took it upon herself to organize 12 the Admin Support Staff to help clean the turbine 13 deck. That they were going to go up there and sweep 14 the turbine deck.
15 So the manager interceded once she heard 16 one of her clerks was going to do that. She said well 17 they are not trained, they're not qualified, all kinds 18 of IDW related issues around that. We're not going to 19 do that.
20 So that would be one kind of example.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Can I stop you?
22 Sure.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I'll ask you 24 some more about that and then you can go forward.
25 When was that issue brought up, do you remember?
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14 1 Months back, but not at the 2 time of the event.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. So the 4 event happened and you found out about it sometime 5 later?
6 * )Yes, months later.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you have to 8 council Kim regarding that?
9No.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, go ahead.
11 )Also the same manager, and 12 these are in general discussions. Had related that at 13 some point Kim had approached about her apparent 14 zeal in supporting a safety.
15 And then it came across to the manager, 16 this is a ku"anager, as if Kim was almost 17 accusing & of being false in her approach of how, 18 approaches safety.
19 And the was pretty upset about it, 20 because I think 21 it was particularly troubling to( just the way that 22 Kim approached . and the way( felt demeaned in 23 that conversation.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Who is the 25 manager you're talking about?
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15 1 That would be
~honetic).
2 3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And she, you
)
4 became aware of both these issues through 5 Yes.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And did you have 7 to follow up with Kim regarding that issue?
8 No, I did not.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: How about, 10 anything else that pops in your mind?
11
- Just, I'll call them general 12 conversations like with the Union. If you're talking 13 to;-- (phonetic), he's the 14 for the IBEW. Just a general sentiment that she 15 wasn't always trusted or, and would insert herself 16 into activities that they felt that she didn't belong 17 in.
18 Union activities, sometime grievance 19 meetings. Sometimes Shop Steward kind of meetings.
20 And those, again, were just general discussions that 21 would have had with me over the course of 22 months or even years.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Jeff, 24 25 could you pull out these, interview.
when was the And you can go to Page 14, (inaudible) because I want
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16 1 to follow up on that about the Union stuff. I'll read 2 it on the record.
3 Page 14 is a question asked by the 4 attorney, I believe it's, it will be Michael 5 Magary(phonetic) from Winston Strong(phonetic).
6 So you remember being interviewed by Mr.
7 Magary and another gentleman?
8 Yes, about a year ago or 9 something, if I remember.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. The 11 question is with respect to that sentiment was it 12 widespread among the management team?
13 You answered it maybe unfair to 14 generalize, I didn't speak to the whole management 15 team. I'm just talking informal conversations.
16 There were a number of persons that 17 questions her role, the usefulness of her assignment.
18 That was both in management team as well as persons 19 from the representing ranks, in particular the 20 phonetic)?
21 Yes.
22 Vi 23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Fine, thanks.
24 And some of the )questioned her role on 25 site and events that she took place in. Who would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 have been some of theyou. were referring 2 to there?
3 m 4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
5 6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.
7 Primarily 8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Line 14, there 9 a question. What was the nature of their concern in 10 terms of the intervention? Answer, their, meaning the 11 Union?
12 Question, yes. Line 18, you answered 13 basically they have low trust for Kim. They felt that 14 she was not bringing about results and they were 15 fearful in talking openly with her.
16 Did you get that sentiment from 17MI "
18 Primarily.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you ever 20 corroborate that with anyone else from the Union?
21 No, I didn't.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That that's how 23 they felt about Kim?
24 No, I did not.
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18 1 told you, did you take any type of action to 2 follow up on that?
3 No, I did not.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Since you jumped 5 and spoke about V I wanted to close that for 6 now.
7 No, that's fine.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, let' s 9 go back and talk about Kim again. Were there ever any 10 issues, concerns or complaints brought to your 11 attention that Kim was intimidating people?
12 I don't know that I would use 13 the term intimidating.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
15 .) That infers a rather strong 16 aggressive stance. I don't think I would use the term 17 intimidating.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well, is there 19 something about my question that you haven't answered 20 to that maybe in your mind doesn't reach to the level 21 of intimidating? If so, please go ahead.
22 This is going to be kind of open, this 23 beginning part.
24 Yeah, just so you know, I'm 25 trying to be helpful, NEALR.GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I understand.
2 3But (inaudible) in my response.
3 Let me just go with that. When I talked a little bit 4 about the track, the issue of trust, there was a 5 belief that Kim was very closely tied td-6 So there were a number of people that felt 7 she was so closely tied to, that you had to 8 guard what you said to Kim for fear that it would get 9 to
- and maybe not have the right meaning, or the 10 tone, or the inflection.
11 So, when you say did she intimidate 12 people, I wouldn't go quite that far. I think that 13 the way that she carried herself or the perception 14 that she was very close with 9 and the Senior 15 Management Team, may have, maybe not intimidated, but 16 certainly caused people to be cautious in their 17 approach or their discussions with her.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, and did 19 you hear that from both Union and Non-Union people?
20Ye 21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Who would have 22 been some of the Non-Union people?
23 'Non-Union I would say fairly 24 widespread. Let me just, who was the 25 WW I know that in one meeting, or in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 several meetings we had, Kim would insert herself into 2 the discussions. This was, God, probably a year ago, 3 about the different training programs.
4 We were looking to put together training 5 and leadership in the 21st century. There also was a 6 supervisory training program.
7 And when Kim would insert herself in those 8 discussions out at the training center, you could feel 9 the tempo in the room sort of come down. Storm 10 (phonetic),, ,.myself and others 11 would be sensitive to what do you say, because Kim 12 often carried herself as an expert, and she didn't 13 have the technical experience in some of these areas 14 where or others would be the technical 15 expert.
16 Likewise, we were just talking abou n) 17 I know at one point he coached her, in fact 18 I think, and I don't remember the specifics, but he 19 said he had to, he removed her from a simulator class 20 where she, how can I put this?
21 She went after or a supervisor, 22 superintendent, she said when are you going to grow a 23 set of balls or something like that. So he pulled her 24 aside and said that's not appropriate. /"
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21 1 a formal complaint that he thought that that was 2 inappropriate, or something around that.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, was HR 4 asked to do something formally regarding 5 issue with -
6 No, we didn't know about it at 7 the time.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, but you 9 said, you were actually present at a meeting out there 10 in training where Kim's presence did what?
11 It sort of changed the tempo, 12 the tone of the meeting. Because Kim inserts herself 13 and it sort of limits the discussion, if you will.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
15 . And again that's a perception, 16 that's a feeling.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: But you were 18 there for that one?
19 Yes 20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Now did HR 21 conduct any type of formal integrity investigations 22 regarding Kim Harbin?
23 . No, not to my knowledge.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Were there any 25 formal -
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22 1 *I'd like to clarify that. When 2 you say integrity, I know at some point 3 (inaudible) was concerned about some expenses, and I 4 believe may have done a review or an 5 investigation. I don't know the full extent of that.
6 And that was towards the end of Kim's 7 employment with (inaudible).
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I'll use the 9 term investigations, I'll keep it general. Were there 10 any, are you aware of any investigations being 11 conducted into any of Kim Harbin's activities 12 (inaudible)?
13 . None other than what I just 14 referenced.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Jeff, do you 16 want to add something?
17 MR. KEENAN: No, I just wanted to add some 18 clarity. That there is a, there are separate 19 departments outside of the HR function that perform 20 reviews.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
22 MR. KEENAN: That HR may or may not have 23 awareness of?
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Is that true?
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23 1 investigation, rather corporate investigative 2 services.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, I just 4 assumed, probably wrongly, that HR would know if those 5 things were being done.
6 - No, we would not.
7 MR. KEENAN: I thought that might be 8 helpful.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes, okay. How 10 about formal complaints made to HR regarding Kim 11 Harbin's activities down here?
12 I'm not aware of any formal 13 complaints, no.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, all right.
15 Let's go talk about Kim Harbin's transfer from*
16 (J&phonetic) group, down here to work for 18 And I know there's an October 31st, 2001, 19 e-mail which sends to eascribing that, what J
20 it meant and what it didn't mean. But tell me, when 21 that formal move; transfer from corporate to here 22 occurred, what did that mean in your eyes, as far as 23 being the here at the site?
24 (No response.)
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24 1 just trying to, do you want to see the e-mail?
2 Yes, if I could. I think I do 3 remember getting that forwarded to me from p But I'd like to see it.
SSR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:,
6 1Yes. 0 ,-n?* >I 7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you want to 8 go ahead and take a look at it for a minute, and then 9 I'll ask you some questions. It's 11:14, we're going 10 to turn the tape off for a minute.
11 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 12 briefly went off the record.)
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: you have 14 the October 31, 2001, e-mail in front of you?
15 Yes, I do.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, I'm going 17 to read part of it here and then I'll ask you some 18 questions about some particular sentences.
19 It's from 20 jthere's a number of people CC'd. I don't see 21 you as being one of them, but I do see a handwritten 22 note on there. It says 23 that what you were talking about when you said 24 gave this to you or sent it to you?
25 Yes.
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25 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Anyway, the e-2 mail reads this is to confirm our conversation 7 .
3 earlier today RE Kim Harbin's status for 2002.
4 We will move Kim Harbin over to your 5 payroll by the end of the year so that she will be on 6 your payroll in 2002, for the entire year.
7 This will be considered a, quote, 8 rotational, end quote, assignment. To you what did 9 that mean back then, rotational assignment?
10 .) Typically rotational 11 assignments were for 12 to 18 months at the end of the 12 rotational assignment, a person returns, if an opening 13 exists, to their former classification or the former 14 location.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. But was 16 she, this switch from' m.,payroll over 17 to M.payroll, did that not make her a 18 permanent nuclear group employee?
19 : I would, she became a full time 20 nuclear employee. As far as the permanency, I think 21 that's what the letter was saying is that it's a 22 rotational assignment, there are no guarantees beyond 23 that.
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II 26 1 no guarantees, we'll evaluate this further in the 2 2002. So it was my understanding and others, that this 3 assignment was going to last approximately one year, 4 and then conclude.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. The next 6 sentence reads we will discuss her status towards the 7 latter part of 2002. Did you participate in any such 8 discussions?
9:No formal discussions, no.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Informal?
1 1I had conversations with.
12 at the end of the 2002 time frame, and what you said 13 that we would be looking to end her, end her 14 assignment or words to that effect.
15 But I didn't participate or actively 16 participate into the merits of keeping her or not.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. All 18 right, since you brought that up, where did that 19 conversation occur with in late 2002? Do you 20 know where it occurred?
21 I really can't say 22 specifically. I didn't have a lot of dealings with 20utside of this location. So my recollection it 24 was in his office or maybe.,, .. .. because 25 there were discussions not only with Kim, but with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1 other groups about us having some reduction in forces 2 during the latter part of 2002.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, and 4 carrying over into early '03?
5 ?That's correct.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Is that correct?
7 .That's correct.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So, when did you 9 first hear that Kim Harbin's position was going to be 10 eliminated? Would it have been during that
ýc, 11 conversation with C10 12
- w Yes, and as I said, I believe 13 it was the last quarter of 2002.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Do you 15 think it was before Christmas or after Christmas?
16 I believe it was before 17 Christmas.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you have any 19 type of records to show when that conversation took 20 place?
21 ý )Nothing precise. I remember 22 seeing documentation when we had some layoffs we do a 23 financial analysis of groups when, what's going to be 24 the impact, what's going to be the cost?
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28 1 benefits do they have? And I remember seeing Kim 2 Harbin's name along with some other persons in another 3 group that were, that were about to be transitioned, 4 laid off or whatever.
5 And I believe that those things started in 6 the November, December time frame.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, do you 8 think you still have a copy of what you're describing?
9 I don't, but I believe or 10 someone has a copy over there.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, do you 12 think you might have any type of written document 13 showing that you had that conversation with 14 WW in the last quarter of '02?
15 )No, I don't. As a matter of 16 fact, I believe the request came in to supply records, 17 so I believe we turned over the records that we had or 18 the records I had.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: But since that 20 original request went out, I've been doing a lot of 21 interviews and I've gotten other documents that, I 22 think people didn't know they had.
23 So that's why I asked you the question.
24 Might there be something you had to show that? You 25 had that conversation with - 7 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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29 1Nothing I can think of.
2 S. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, okay.
3 Let's talk about how this was conveyed to Kim Harbin, 4 this transfer down from corporate to the nuclear 5 business unit, working for,A 6 Did you have any discussions with Kim 7 Harbin regarding what this transfer meant as described 8 in this e-mail that it's a rotational assignment and 9 the understanding that there are no guarantees beyond 10 that.
11 Do you recall if you had any discussion 12 with her surrounding that issue?
13 *Certainly not around this time 14 frame. Not around the October time frame.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, might you 16 have had a conversation with her about, you know, 17 there would be no guarantees beyond 2002. Would you 18 have had a conversation with her at some point 19 regarding that?
20 e closest that I recall 21 having a conversation as somewhere around mid 2002.
22 And I'm thinking July time frame when Kim was trying 23 to get expense money.
24 So I said Kim you understand we're going 25 ahead with this, we're making payments for 2002 on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 1 your expenses, and you understand this ends, and if I 2 remember right, January the 5th of '03, and then 3 that's it.
4 What do you mean by that? Something 5 about, well, you know this is a temporary assignment, 6 that's the end.
7 Her words were something like well I don't 8 believe that this is a temporary assignment. And I 9 said something like, well then you need to talk to 10 Harry, because that's my understanding this is a 11 temporary assignment.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And what would 13 that understanding been based on at that point?
14 My understanding was based on 15 this document. Conversations with -
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: The document 17 being the e-mail?
18 Yes. This document and others, 19 it was just my understanding this was just an 20 extension. It was a temporary assignment. Actually, 21 an assignment that had been extended a number of 22 times, because when she first came down here I 23 originally heard she was down here for like a year and 24 then, you know, her assignments kept on being extended 25 or extended over a course of several years, I guess.
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31 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. And 2 you think you had that discussion with Kim Harbin, 3 sometime in mid 2002? Where you made her understand 4 that her temporary living expenses would end in 5 January, '03.
6 She asked why, well that's probably, 7 that's going to be the end of your assignment, right?
8 IWords to that effect, something 9 like that.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you think you 11 might have something to document that you had that 12 conversation with Kim during that time period?
13 No, I don't.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Anything?
15 No.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Some people keep
- 17. diaries, I don't know, that's why I ask.
18 No, and if I had them, because 19 obviously they'd be helpful. I don't keep a calendar, 20 I mean I have my calendar and that's about it. I 21 don't have a -
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. It's 23 1:23, we're going to take a short break and then we'll 24 move on to a different area.
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32 1 went off the record at 1:23 2 p.m., and went back on the 3 record at 1:25 p.m.)
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 1:25, we're 5 back on the record. Let's talk a little bit about 6 Kim's temporary living expenses. Do you know why she 7 was granted temporary living expenses for the year 8 2002?
9 -MOW It was my understanding in, 10 again, just discussions witjbecause it was a 11 temporary assignment she was going to get expenses, 12 much as she had before when she was on loan from the 13 Corporate Services Group.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
15 W : And that just seemed to be 16 carried off, excuse me, carried forward, which seemed 17 consistent with even requests from Kim in some of her 18 earlier e-mails where she said, much like other 19 Contractors, you know, I should get a per diem or 20 something to help me with my expenses.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you recall 22 seeing e-mails where Kim described her working down 23 here almost as a Contractor or Consultant?
24 ()Yes.
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33 1 those? If I do, I didn't stumble on it. Do you think 2 you have those?
3 MR. KEENAN: I know I have them. In fact, 4 while we're on the record, I had given those to you in 5 the additional documents that you were going to 6 provide. I think I, well -
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Maybe I do have 8 them.
9 MR. KEENAN: - I'm pretty confident that 10 I haven't gotten to all of them yet. We're stepping 11 over each other but I believe I've provided everything 12 that has been supplied to me.
13 Our document production on this has been 14 pretty voluminous, as you are aware.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes, I am. If 16 I, I'm sure I will see that document at some point.
17 And if I do and I have a follow up question for you on 18 it, I'll just get a hold of Jeff, and we can probably 19 do it over the phone.
20 MR. KEENAN: That's fine. But if you want 21 me to get the document.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you have it 23 readily available?
24 MR. KEENAN: Yes.
25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Why don't we get NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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34 1 that, then.
2 MR. KEENAN: Yes, let's take a break from 3 the record.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 1:27, and 5 we're going to take a quick break.
6 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 7 went off the record at 1:27 8 p.m., and went back on the 9 record at 1:38 p.m.)
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, it's 1:38 11 in the afternoon, and we're back on the record. Jeff, 12 yuand went and retrieved the record which 13 you described,l 14 It's an e-mail from Kim 15 Retigliano(phonetic) to regarding 16 expenses. In this e-mail she, in a way, compares her 17 situation, in the December of 2002, to long-term 18 Consultants.
19 And that's the reason for why she should 20 get the per diem. Is that an accurate representation?
21 That was my understanding.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And Jeff, you 23 did supply this to me, and I did see it before, it 24 just slipped my memory.
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1 on the record that it was supplied to the Commission 2 previously.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: 1I know you 4 mentioned this before, but why were her expenses ended 5 on January 5, 2003?
6 -* They ended because it was my 7 understanding that it was one, the duration that' 8 had agreed to pay, and that was the end of her 9 assignment at nuclear.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, that's IQ' 11 your understanding of the duration 9agreed to 12 pay?
13 fYes.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And how did you 15 learn that January 5th, 2003, would be the last day 16 she'd be getting temporary living expenses?
17 That was in a document, again, 18 in one of these documents that went to ,
19 (inaudible) or, )something along those lines.
20 And I think Kim was copied on that, as 21 well. It will say your final payment will be January 22 the 5th of 2003.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, all right, 24 thank you. We had another short discussion off the 25 record about something that you raised, just /1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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36 1 subtleties regarding Kim Harbin. Why don't you go 2 ahead and tell me what you mean by that, and then I'll 3 ask you some follow up questions.
4 N
- Yeah, the question was about 5 issues around Kim, and I'll just call them subtleties 6 where things were brought to my attention, not for an 7 official capacity.
8 And just in dealing or looking at Kim and 9 her work experience, even personally, my first dealing i0 with Kim was over here in the HR Conference Room.
11 There was a little confrontation between 12 my former boss and herself, and she just broke down 13 crying. Her response seemed way out of, her response 14 seemed extremely out of character what you would have 15 thought with a minor confrontation or minor push back 16 on the part of my boss.
17 I can't even recall the exact specifics.
18 As far as other subtleties, other things that 19 employees have said, for instance 20 phonetic), God, months back, some time back had 21 mentioned that it just seemed a little bit odd or 22 strange that Kim was, was pushing or was involved in 23 a person having a' 24 And she involved him and the group in 25 that, and it seemed odd or something that he should be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS AVE., N.W.
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37 1 involved with and he seemed uncomfortable in that 2 setting. Again, this didn't happen, the comment about 3 the offer didn't happen at the time, but he said that 4 )it seemed strange but, I was at a Landmark Forum 5 where Kim professed her love to, with one of the, to 6 one of the managers here on site.
7 And he said there were others in the group 8 from PSEG. He said that those kind of behaviors just 9 seemed a little bit, I call them odd, whatever you 10 want to call them.
11 Other things, I don't know, and again, I 12 don't know what your other -
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Go ahead and go 14 into what you've got.
15 )- discoveries had revealed., but 16 we're looking into an Arbitration on the MM 17 Arbitration, so I actually askea ý'to pull his e-18 mails.
19 I discovered e-mails surrounding Kim 20 Harbin, and then we also asked to pull her e-mails.
21 And the e-mails, they were somewhat odd,- I'll jiist 22 call them.
23 And she had almost a treatise to 24 There's several pages. Her own emotional 25 feelings, what she wanted to tell That NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE'ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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38 1 seemed a bit odd. Also her use of the e-mail system.
2 And again, this is close to the end of her employment 3 with the company.
4 I saw these or I saw some of the e-mails.
5 saw most of them and I told (inaudible) 6 about those, and I said- do you want me to do a 7 full investigation, because I think there's 8 impropriety here and you may have a discharge on our 9 hands.
10 And it was pretty much,., I'll take 11 care of that. We're at the end of her employment and 12 I'll take care of it. I doubt that ever 13 followed up on that, but that would have been in the 14 January, 2003 time frame.
15 When I just caught some of these 16 subtleties, those are the kinds of things you heard.
17 Nothing that was, I'll call directly actionable.
18 Nothing that I would say is a For Cause Referral.
19 Nothing that crossed that threshold, just 20 things that seemed a little bit, my word is odd.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Would you have 22 shared those things with, 23 No, I did not. Oh, with the 24 exception of the e-mails that I discussed in the 25 February, 2003 time frame.
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39 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
2 Let's talk about -
3 M Let me just clarify. These 4 things that come in, I don't have firsthand knowledge 5 for most of those.
6 So other than what I observed in the HR 7 Conference Room, they are secondhand, nothing that I 8 heard first hand, and I didn't see a requirement to, 9 that were actionable or directly actionable.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: How about 11 something surrounding a book that Kim had been handing 12 out. The impression, I guess, being, the potential 13 impression being that she may have been soliciting 14 personal business by handing this book out.
15 , I'm not aware of a book she was 16 handing out.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Let's talk about 18 her position being eliminated, okay? You've testified 19 earlier today that you first learned of this from 20 And when was that again?
21 )The last quarter of 2002. And 22 when I said, it was eitherQor-23 because was assisting and working on the 24 proposed reductions in force.
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40 1 reason given for why her position was going to be 2 eliminated? Do you remember what the reason was?
3 I don't remember a direct 4 conversation. It was just my understanding it was a 5 temporary position and the need or the requirement had 6 gone away.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Was, do you know 8 if the decision was based in part on other areas or 9 groups being downsized here, mainly in the support 10 staff area?
11 I)There were cutbacks in the 12 support staff area, so Q we had already 13 impacted the technology integration, I think the admin 14 support group under (phonetic) and I 15 believe Kim was also in that grouping, larger 16 grouping.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. But was, 18 was the, the fact that there were staff, position 19 eliminations, was that the reason why her position was 20 eliminated too, or was it just the fact that it was a 21 temporary job down here?
22 I'm not sure I quite understand 23 the question. Would you try again, please?
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I seen, or I've 25 heard of three reasons why her position was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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41 1 eliminated. One, it's part of the downsizing down 2 here. Two, performance based, and the third is 3 slipping me right now, for some reason.
4 But was her position eliminated as part of 5 the downsizing?
6 Yes, I believe it's part of a 7 larger downsizing if that's where you were going.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well, I'm not 9 really going anywhere. I'm trying to find out what 10 the reason was for why her position was eliminated.
11 Yes, I would say it was part of 12 a larger downsizing. And a desire to more effectively 13 manage the headcount for the site.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. That may 15 make sense to an HR person, but what does that really 16 mean?
17 It means that we had a targeted 18 headcount number or each year. The targeted 19 headcount, we were probably 37, 40 positions heavy 20 going into 2003.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Is that, are you 22 talking about the Navigan(phonetic) study?
23 Not so much the Navigan Study 24 is, I'll just say an internal headcount number that's 25 provided through financial control.
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42 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And when you 2 first heard that Kim Harbin's job was going to be 3 eliminated in the last quarter of '02, did you take 4 any action to follow up on that, to help that process 5 happen and occur?
6 The only, the follow up that I 7 recall is that I believe I had asked to pull 8 together what I call the numbers.
9 So if we reduce, let's say eight, nine 10 people, or whatever, what is the cost associated for 11 that for the finance group.
12 So ulls together the number of weeks 13 vacation, separation allowance, that sort of thing, 14 and does a financial review of what those costs are 15 going to be incurred by the company.
16 I believe that occurred in the end of 17 2002.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: What makes you 19 believe that that occurred then?
20 : Because I'm remembering this 21 document that had the names on it. Kim and the admin 22 support folks. I believe that was done the end of 23 2002.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I'm going to 25 take a short break, oh, I think I have it right here.
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43 1 I have a document here in front of me. It's a 2 Microsoft Excel Worksheet. Do you have a copy in 3 front of you there?
4 MR. KEENAN: I gave you the wrong thing, 5 just a second. We're off the record, right?
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: No.
7 MR. KEENAN: Sorry.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I can be off the 9 record. We'll take a short break, it's 1:49.
10 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 11 went off the record at 1:49 12 p.m., and went back on the 13 record at 1:50 p.m.)
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, we're back 15 on, it's about 1:50. I'm looking at a document, Sheet 16 1 and Sheet 2 of a Microsoft Excel Admin Support SEP 17 Worksheet. Do you see those documents?
18 Yes, I do.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Is that the 20 document that you're referring to that you think you-21 saw in late 2002?
22 This is the document I was 23 referring to, yes.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Are you positive it's that document? 17 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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44 1 I have a high degree of 2 certainty, b 't this is the format, this is the group.
3 I believe that this is the document.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, when you 5 say this is the group, you're talking about the names 6 of the individuals listed there?
7 es 8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
9 A)nd just for the record, I 10 don't for whatever reason remember Sheet 2. I just 11 remember seeing something like Sheet 1.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, Sheet 1.
13 All right. When you first saw this document, Sheet 1, 14 did you take any action to help this process happen at 15 that point? Any further action, direction, 16 supervision to, regarding the elimination of Kim's 17 position?
18 '.Well, not only Kim and these 19 other positions, so as I recall there were other 20 discussions with, as you said, '.,
22 And as far as I remember those discussions 23 continued into January of 2003.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, we're 25 going to talk just about Kim now.
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4b 1
- okay.
2 (Tape flipped over.)
3 - that I asked, I had a with land I asked, to put
-? C 4 conversation 5 together what I call a package or a Separation 6 Package.
7 So what you do is you take this 8 information, you draw up agreements as far as 9 separation allowances, that sort of thing. And I 10 think that happened in the late January time frame, 11 something like that.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: If 'had 13 decided in late 2002, to eliminate Kim's position, can 14 you tell me why she was not informed of that until 15 February 26, 2003?
16 Wellone, you never notify the 17 associate until you have corporate approval, you have 18 the separation agreement. The terms and conditions of 19 the separation can be modified or changed.
20 So, I mean it's not as simple as your job 21 is being eliminated. There are a number of processes 22 that have to be followed to make sure that the 23 notification is proper, you have the correct 24 agreement.
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46 1 consideration given to groups. So the Corporate 2 Practices Procedure Manual calls out you get one half 3 weeks for every four year credit of service.
4 In addition, sometimes we elect to do a 5 voluntary separation agreement. So if you sign 6 voluntarily you get enhancements to that package.
7 All of those discussions have to take 8 place before you can offer a separation agreement to 9 a person.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Even before you 11 inform them that their job is being eliminated? That 12 stuff all is done before the employee is informed?
13 Yes.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. You 15 mentioned corporate approval. Was their corporate 16 approval obtained for the decision to eliminate Kim's 17 position?
18 es.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Tell me what it 20 was and is there a document showing that there was 21 corporate approval?
22 I don't believe there's a 23 document as far as corporate approval. The voluntary 24 separation agreements are signed or approved by4 25 (inaudible), as NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4"*
1 So by virtue of her acceptance, 2 acknowledgement of the separation agreement, that is 3 approval throughan SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So by X 4
5 name appearing on the 45-day letter or the separation 6 agreement, that's what you're talking about as far as 7 corporate approval?
8 ( ))Correct.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you have 10 conversations with about this corporate 11 approval?
12 Yes.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Can you share 14 those with me and when you first had them?.
15 Again, I remember, or I believe 16 those conversations were in the January time frame 17 where discussions, or throughý ,. And don't forget 18 the reporting relationship at that time was through 19
- who's the who 20 reports up, well actually he reports up through 21 phonetic), but is in charge of all of 22 23 All of that being, I'm sorry, you had a 24 question.
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48 1 the whole company?
2 Correct.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: He is, okay, go 4 ahead.
5 ) All of that being said, is that 6 my recollection was, not only was it Kim, but it was 7 for the whole group. We're having layoffs, these are 8 the people, those discussions were with 9 an -reviewed that. I know 10 I had conversations with o Iabout that. We go 11 through, do the separation agreements, get 12 concurrence.
13 Get concurrence on the site. Make sure 14 that the, how do you transition the work that they're 15 doing. Have all those things being finalized and then 16 you go ahead with the actual separation.
17 So at least all of the separations that 18 I've been familiar with since, God, early '90s, that 19 process has been the process.
20 You go through, get the corporate 21 approvals, get the separation agreements. Work out 22 how did the person get separated. It's a rather, this 23 is a nuclear site so, you know, is there a potential 24 threat?
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49 1 the protected area? Do you escort the person off 2 site? Do you leave them inside the gate?
3 So there are a number of discussions that 4 you have before you even contemplate a reduction in 5 force.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. And all 7 those things would be done before the employee would 8 be notified, is that correct?
9 That's correct.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, all right.
11 It's 1:56, we're going to take another break.
12 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 13 went off the record at 1:56 14 p.m., and went back on the 15 record at 2:10 p.m.)
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 2:10 in the 17 afternoon and we're back on the record. Maybe we 18 could just talk a little bit about Kim's job 19 effectiveness, what you heard about that?
20 That came up very early in the interview 21 when I asked you some questions, some general 22 questions about Kim.
23 Riht 24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And I put that 25 aside then, but maybe we can go into that now. What NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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50 1 were you hearing when, you know, we're getting towards 2 late 2002, before tells you that he's going to 3 eliminate Kim's position. What are you hearing before 4 then regarding Kim's job effectiveness the view of her 5 job effectiveness?
6 ) More or less the general 7 comments that I mentioned earlier, just about some of 8 the behavioral aspects. Didn't seem to be moving the 9 organizational fully ahead.
10 We had gap initiatives. And again, the 11 organization seemed to be not progressing at the rate 12 that they would have liked.
13 And that pretty much her effectiveness 14 was, if you will, waning or words to that effect.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Who are you 16 hearing that from that her effectiveness was waning or 17 words to that effect?
18 Just, I think it was just a 19 general comment. It might have been with 20 o2
- It wasn't specific. It wasn't in the form 21 of a performance appraisal or anything along those 22 lines.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. All 24 right, now tells you about his decision to 25 eliminate Kim's position.
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51 1 After that date, were you hearing the same 2 types of general comments about Kim's effectiveness or 3 value? And if so, who were you hearing them from?
4 I'll say that general comments 5
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: About her 7 effectiveness?'
8 M Not so much, because at that 9 point, once the decision is made to release a person, 10 we move on that track.
11 So then you start doing the processing of 12 paperwork and the other things associated with that.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: While we're 14 talking about the process and paperwork, I have some 15 documents here.
16 There's a draft, I guess 45-day letter to 17 Kim Retigliano and the signature block would be for 18 ) And then attached to that would be a 19 separation agreement, a copy of that, and the 20 signature block there would be ) (inaudible),
21 because she's the one that does that, the separation 22 agreement.
23 Yes. Just so, if you want me 24 to expand on the process a little bit.
25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes, go ahead.
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52 1Maybe that might help you. So 2 from an HR standpoint, you get these forms 3 assimilated. How much separation pay? Is there going 4 to be a voluntary separation agreement?
5 Because sometimes that isn't part of the 6 package.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
8 Get all of that approved, and 9 just as far as process, normally the separating 10 manager is there with a Client Consultant, usually 11 that's the process. Sometimes they do it by 12 themselves.
13 But we actually prefer that the Client 14 Consultant be there. Okay, so the separation goes 15 ahead. The employee reviews the documentation.
16 does not sign the separation agreement.
17 If the employee elects to sign, they sign 18 their piece of it. It's sent back. then signs 19 and then it's mailed back to the employee. So that's 20 how, that's a little bit of how the process works.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Now these 22 documents that are stamped draft, dated February, with 23 no particular day, 2003. Do you know who would have 24 produced those?
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53 1 those for me.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. And then 3 there's a document, the same document dated March 3rd, 4 2003. It's not stamped draft. Okay, no, this is 5 good, this is the worksheet. Okay.
6 Okay, all right. Looking at the 7 acknowledgment, the acknowledgment receding the cover 8 letter and separation agreement. The top of that is 9 dated March 3rd, 2003. Do you see that?
10 Yes, I do.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And does that 12 look like Kim Harbin's signature there?
- 13. AM To tell you the truth, I 14 wouldn't know her signature.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, but 16 the date is 2-26-03. And it has Kim's name at the top 17 and there's a signature block signed. I'm going to 18 say it's Kim's signature.
19 So you know why the date is written in as 20 2-26-03, yet the typed in date is March 3rd, 2003?
21 Can you explain that?
22 I believe in talking to 23 this was prepared for, originally for a March 3rd 24 separation meeting with (inaudible) and Kim. I think, (
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54 1 or maybe a difficulty meeting that date, and they 2 moved the date up. And I believe was 3 involved in that as well, on the 26th of February.
4 So I believe that this document, while it 5 shows a typed date of March 3rd at the top, was 6 actually signed by Kim as shown on this document.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Let's 8 talk about, let's transition from that to her actual 9 last day here. Okay, let's talk about that.
10 Initially, was it, was it thought that Kim 11 would actually be working, and the key there is 12 initially. Was it thought that Kim would work the 13 full 45 days up until her last day of employment at 14 PSEG?
15 I believe that's correct, yes.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Do you 17 know who was involved in that discussion?
18 t No, I don't. I took that as an 19 assumption.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. At 21 some point did you participate in discussions 22 surrounding her last day being moved up from April 23 16th, to some time earlier than that?
24 Yes, I do.
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55 1 into that. When did those discussions first occur and 2 who were they with?
3 I believe, it would be helpful 4 if I had my calendar.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: The calendar in 6 front of me-7 .) Oh, I've got that.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: If Jeff can get 9 to it before me, that would be fine. But I do have 10 it, also. We'll go off the record and look for it.
11 It's 2:17.
12 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 13 went off the record at 2:17 14 p.m., and went back on the 15 record at 2:20 p.m.)
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, it's 2;20.
17 We've all found a calendar that's stamped, well not 18 stamped, but printed out as March, 2003. At the 19 bottom it says on site. Sorry, plan -
20 )is that the calendar you were referring to?
21 K: Yes, it is.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. And my 23 question to you was at some point did you participate 24 in discussions surrounding Kim Harbin's last date of 25 work being moved up?
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56 1Yes, I did.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And after 3 looking at this calendar, can you answer my question?
4 When you first participated in those discussions?
5 . Sure, that was on the evening 6 of the 18th, up at, where it says Hamilton Park 7 Conference Center. That was up in North Jersey.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. And tell 9 me who was present for that discussion and how it 10 turned to discussing Kim's departure from the site?
1i Okay. First of all, by way of 12 background, it was a general HR staff meeting for 13 and all her reports. It was a special meeting 14 up in Hamilton Park.
15 At the end of that meeting, I was asked to 16 wait with d myself, so it was 17 a meeting of three of us at the'end of that meeting in 18 Hamilton Park.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, go ahead.
20 There was discussion, two-fold.
21 One is you'll see discuss meeting on 3-20 with*
22 )There was an Industrial Relations meeting for 23 guidance on the 20th.
24 They were looking for some of my thoughts.
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57 1 to work with. At the end of that the discussion moved 2 to Kim Harbin, and I was asked, directed, what's the 3 status on Kim? What's happening there?
4 And I was told to move up her separation 5 date.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: By who?
7 By 8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Both of them?
9 Yes.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did they say why 11 they wanted that date moved up?
12 had said is her work 13 done? Yes, her work is pretty much done. Again, I 14 got a sense that there was still concerns with the, 15 how can I put it? The potential irregularities.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Temporary living 17 expense claims? Is that what you're talking about?
18 19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
20 Kim was still involving herself 21 in other areas. I believe had heard, I don't if 22 I or someone else had told her that Kim moved into a, 23 was moving into a different office.
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58 1 move that date up. And I was directed to make that 2 happen by the 21st.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. So the 4 direction you got fromt was to move up 5 her last day here from April 15th, until March 21st?
6i That's correct.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. All 8 right. So this is the 18th, that's a Tuesday. Then 9 March 21st would be that Friday?
10 Correct.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: What actions did 12 you take that week to accomplish that?
13 I told that I would give 14 it my best shot. I intended to meet with Kim to make 15 that happen. This was a week from hell, you saw, 16 excuse me.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That's fine.
18 In your words, a very busy 19 week. I had an Arbitration prep, we had a series of 20 company union meetings on Wednesday, and I just 21 didn't, and I thought maybe I could still make it 22 happen at the end of Friday.
23 And you can see I had an Arbitration up in 24 Mount Laurel. I was hoping to get back early, it 25 didn't happen. And as a consequence I didn't, I y C.
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59 1 *didn't meet the, what. had asked me to do.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. At any 3 point during that week, did you tell any of your 4 people, here at the site, that Kim's last date was 5 going to be moved up from April 16th'?
6 I believe I told, and not with 7 absolute certainty,' as well.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Who's'O 9 ( .(inaudible) my Secretary.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, all right.
11 :JThat she was going to have her 12 date moved up. And the reason I'm thinking is 13 I believe when I saw that it wasn't going to happen on 14 the 21st, and again, a year ago, I'm stumbling here, 15 rambling a bit.
16 I think I calle and said, 17 I'm not going to make it.. Call Kim and set up a 18 meeting for Monday the 24th. So, you know, I'm at the 19 Arbitration, I believe it was the 21st.
20 I'm not going to make it, set 21 something up. I'm not going to be able to get her out 22 of here this week, we'll have to make it next week or 23 something like that.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, and your, 25 the calendar for Monday the 24th, that block shows NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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60 1 11:00 to 11:30, Kim, paren.
2 office. Do you see that?
3 Yes.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did that meeting 5 occur at that time on Monday?
6 I have notes for that meeting.
7 My recollection is that it was a phone conversation 8 and not an actual meeting. And I'm a little unclear 9 on that.
10 I looked, I saw that I have notes on it, 11 and I didn't see that was on the meeting notes.
12 So I think that Kim said she couldn't make it or 13 something that we did it over the phone.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
15 d Again, not absolute, 100 16 percent clear on the conversation.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: During that 18 Monday meeting on the 24th, did you tell Kim Harbin 19 that her last day there had, was going to be moved up?
20 Yes.
21 SR.. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, *did you 22 tell her who's decision that was?
23 -I don't believe I did. I'd 24 like to refer to my notes where that might be helpful.
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61 1 you go ahead and do that. It's 2:26, and we're going 2 to take a break s .can review his notes.
3 Were those notes that you took after the 4 meeting or during the meeting?
5 MNo, after the meeting.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, we're 7 going to take a short break.
8 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 9 went off the record at 2:26 10 p.m., and went back on the 11 record at 2:30 p.m.)
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 2:30 in the 13 afternoon and we're back on the record. * ,W 14 you've got, had a chance to review some notes that you 15 took, following your March 24th, 2003, meeting with 16 Kim Harbin?
17 1That's correct.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you see about 19 three-quarters of the way down there, you have written 20 down there that Kim asked you why she's being treated 21 differently.
22 Can you tell me what she said during that 23 meeting about that?
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62 1 to the end of her 45 days, so that she felt as though 2 this was being different than others may have been 3 treated.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you think 5 she was being treated differently?
6 M She was being treated a little 7 differently than some of the others that were out-8 processed within that window.
9 Certainly not different or what is allowed 10 by process or what have you. But it did, it must have 11 felt different to her.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: What was 13 different in the way she was handled compared to some 14 of the others?
15 f As far as working to the end of 16 the 45 days.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, but 18 everybody is not, everybody doesn't always work the 45 19 full days, isn't that correct?
20 Well, most people don't work 21 the 45 days. So if you were to look at historical, 22 probably since the '90s, I would say probably 95 23 percent of the people don't work the 45 days.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So you thought 25 it was different because she was working towards that.,
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63 1 45 days?
2 Yes, I mean from her 3 perception, she had a belief that she was going to 4 work for the 45 days. And her perception was, it 5 probably felt to her as though she was being treated 6 differently.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. I've got, 8 I'm going to break these down just a little bit about 9 who's decision it was to move up her date leaving the 10 site.
11 You've indicated that it was your action 12 under the direction of to make that 13 happen, correct?
14 That's true.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, did you 16 share that wit '.
17 That was share M O on, 18 I believe it was the 20th, after our meeting with 19 on the 20th.
20 And it wasn't, how can I put this? It was 21 AW we're separating.her earlier, is there any 22 assignments that would preclude that or whatever.
23 So it wasn't so much looking for' 24 concurrence, it was justiw . this is what we're 25 doing.
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64 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Did he 2 object to that? Do you recall him objecting to that 3 at all?
- 4. No. As far as I know he didn't 5 object.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. But 7 are you clear, it was ggdecision?
8 You were carrying out their direction in making that 9 occur? Is that what happened?
10 .:I)That is what happened, yes.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Now I 12 have a copy of a taped conversation between you and 13 Kim Harbin. I want to play that tape and I'll play 14 it.
15 You can hear it and then I have some 16 follow up questions regarding that. This tape wasn't 17 done at our direction, but it's been provided to the 18 Commission and it's a copy of a tape that we have.
19 MR. KEENAN: Is it a telephone message or 20 is it -
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I don't believe 22 it's a phone message, I believe it's person-to-person.
23 MR. KEENAN: Is it transcribed in any 24 manner?
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65 1 you read along. It's a pretty clear tape. Why don't 2 we listen to it first and then if we need to break it 3 down in writing, we can do that. Okay?
4 And then, in the meantime you might, Jeff, 5 you might want to get out 4 Winston Strong 6 transcript.
7 MR. KEENAN: Just one more thing before we 8 break. I mean clearly you're talking about a 9 recording that ihad, that Kim had with1 fi a 10 discussion?
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's a recording 12 of the discussion that Kim had with,_-__. ......
13 MR. KEENAN: And clearly it's distressing 14 to be recorded in a capacity without your knowledge.
15 I'm assuming, , you didn't have any knowledge of 16 this recording?
17 :i No. I don't know if it's legal 18 or whatever, *but that's for you guys to sort out.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
20 MR. KEENAN: So obviously we'll cooperate, 21 but I think it should be duly noted that it's 22 certainly troublesome to be recorded in a manner like 23 that, and I'll listen to the tape and move forward.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, I' ll play 25 the tape, off the record? Is that what you would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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66 1 prefer? It doesn't matter to me. I have a 2 transcript, I know what it says and I've listened to 3 the tape.
4 MR. KEENAN: I think we would prefer if we 5 had a break. Thank you.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, it's 2:35, 7 we're going to take a break and play the tape.
8 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 9 went off the record at 2:35 10 p.m., and went back on the 11 record at 3:12 a.m.)
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, we're back 13 on the record, it's 3:12. Now, gentlemen, I played a 14 copy of the tape of a discussion between yourself and 15 Kim Harbin, off the record. Do you agree that that's 16 your voice on the tape?
Mo1-,Yes, I do.
17 18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. And, well 19 first Jeff, you wanted to say something and then I'll 20 go ahead.
21 MR. KEENAN: Yes, just before you start the 22 questions. We appreciate you letting us listen to the 23 tape and review the transcript.
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67 1 a voluntary manner and he is willing to continue and 2 cooperate and provide testimony with respect to the 3 recording.
4 Iwould like to preserve ability, 5 should these tapes be found to be inadmissible or not 6 useable for purposes of this forum. And should that 7 occur, we would preserve the right to strike the 8 testimony relevant to this information.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: just so 10 you understand, we had this issue reviewed by our 11 :Office of General Counsel and they came to a 5 12 determination "M mi ow ..
13 14 Just so we did pursue that with our legal 15 people. And I hear what you're saying Jeff.
16 Because I'm not an attorney, so 17 I don't know.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Me either. I 19 just ask the questions.
20 MR. KEENAN: And again, just to expand that 21 I'm adding that for a legal protection mechanism, and 22 00 is, again, willing to, as he indicated, 23 *provide his, continue testimony on this.
24 SR, SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. We 25 listened to the tape off the record, and then I A NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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68 1 gave you and Jeff Keenan the best copy of the 2 transcript that we have of that tape. Did you have a 3 chance to read that?
4 %Yes, I did.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, if you 6 could go to the bottom of the first page of the 7 transcript. Kim is asking you if you, have you talked 8 with since I met with him? And you 9 answer I talked to. l)ast Thursday, you think it 10 was.
11 Looking at your calendar, do you think you 12 talked to on Thursday the 20th?
13 /1 )Yes, I believe it was after our 14 Industrial(Relations Meeting, as we said before.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. And then 16 Kim asked you, after I met with him? And you answer 17 I believe it was after you had met with him.
18 How positive are you of that day your 19 meeting with jjtook place after he had met with 7Q 20 Kim?
21 I'm not absolute, but I believe 22 that it was'\after, well, it would be helpful if I knew 23 what time Kim met with him.
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69 1 the day.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And so the 3 meeting with 'would have been at the end of the 4 day, then?
5 Yes, that's what I remember.
6 S, SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, I'm not 7 trying to, I'm just trying to get your understanding 8 from when you met with 9 Now during that meeting that you had with 10 1let's switch to that for just a minute. During 11 that meeting di ...... tell you that he had met 12 with Kim earlier that day?
13 I thought that he had. I 14 thought he said, I thought that he did.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. During 16 your meeting with'ý in the afternoon of the 20th, 17 okay? Did, tell you during that meeting that Kim 18 Harbin had raised any type of safety concern to him 19 during a meeting that he had just had with her or one 20 that he had previously had with her?
21 ) NO. There was never any 22 mention of a safety concern or anything along those 23 lines.
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1 raised concerns to him regarding a production over 2 safety mentality in the plant?
3No 4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did ever 5 tell you that Kim had raised a concern to him about 6 non-conservative decision making occurring inside the 7 plant?
8 No.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did ever 10 tell you that Kim had raised a concern with him that 11 management inside the plant was in and of itself a 12 safety concern?
1ý *OMN No.-
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, okay,-
15 Let's go up to the first part of Page 1 of this 16 transcript.
17 Sure.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And I'll just 19 read it for the record. You say Kim I wanted to talk 20 to you about,Q jtalked to me a little bit, I guess 21 it was on Wednesday or so, in reference to your 22 position and the services you are currently providing.
23 As you know, the 16th of May, excuse me, 24 the 16th of April I think is scheduled to be your last 25 day. A couple of things with the on-site or the NEAL R. GROSS NJ_
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1 change of leadership with )coming on board, 2 a obviously leaving in the next week or so.
3 I thought it would be beneficial, I 4 thought it would be beneficial if we moved up, if we 5 moved your date up for your departure, still paying 6 you through the 16th, to give you more time to look 7 for other work or whatever.
8 Are you telling her that it was 9 decision to move up her last day?
10 ) No, not at all.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Tell me, because 12 you can read it that way.
13 Unm hmm.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you agree 15 that it can be read that way?
16 (:) No, I really, I don't read it 17 that way, so -
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, tell me 19 why?
20 Okay, I started saying that 21 there were conversations Wednesday or so, which we'll 22 say Wednesday or Thursday, the position and the 23 services you ard currently providing. The 16th is 24 your scheduled for your last day.
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1 leaving in the next week or so and i t would be, and 2 you see there's a comma. I thougl it it would be 3 beneficial if we moved your day up to your departure, 4 still paying you through the 16th.
ad wi th A 5 So the conversation I h ll 20 6 somewhere, and I'm thinking it was or
- the 20th, was 7 just to confirm that she had no other assignments.
8 So from my vantage point, c3he had no other 9 work related assignments. So I'm ncit reading this 10 that !M3said move your date u
'-Ic-11 confirming she has no other work-relat.ed assignments.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
13 So what I'm sa'ring is, and it the 18th, * ,
14 is consistent. We had the meeting on 15 and I are meeting with at the end of this IR 16 meeting.
17 She doesn't have anymor e assignments.
18 We're changing leadership. And there was a desire by 19 that Kim not be he.re for the new 20 leadership, so she was not, so she wa.5 not annoying, 21 soliciting or whatever.
22 So when I say, thought it would be 23 beneficial to move up you date, I didn' t say I and 24 I thought it was beneficial to move ul your date.
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1 your date. So the way I read that, no where do I say 2 that f said move up your date.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Next 4 sentence reads so that's what I wanted to talk to you 5 about today to see what that time table looked like so 6 discussions with where he thought it would, it 7 looks like this week sometime, as far as in other 8 words the leadership of leaving and the new guy 9 is coming on board.
10 You were tied pretty close to *and 11 that leadership and to make that transition a little 12 quicker, like I said, as far as the pay and that sort 13 of thing, and I'm not going, I don't need to read the 14 rest of it.
15 But, I look at those next few sentences 16 and it sounds like, based on discussion wit14 , or 17 he thought it would be beneficial to move up your day.
18 That's the way I read that. Is that what you, is that 19 the way you read it?
20 No, it's not.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, is 22 that what you, all right, well tell me why, tell me 23 why I'm wrong?
24 f Okay. The reason you're wrong 25 is, one, I know the conversation that I had with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 And never said move the date up, and 2 like I said, that was already established.
3 The new guy is coming on board, that was 4 based on I'm stumbling over myself, so obviously when 5 I'm reading or having the conversation with Kim, I'm 6 obviously a little bit nervous having the conversation 7 or moving this time frame up.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Why, though?
9 Why would you have been nervous about talking to her 10 about that?
11 1 4 Kim can be very sometimes 12 challenging. She was obviously a little upset in the 13 meeting. So, I mean, it's a difficult conversation.
14 Any time you have a conversation with 15 somebody, they're about to lose their job, it's a 16 difficult conversation. Where was I?
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: You were telling 18 me why I shouldn't read it that way, or why it 19 shouldn't be read that way.
20 Oh, and the new guy is coming 21 on board. So the desire, the desire was that she not 22 be there for the new guy coming on board.
23 That wasn't 3 desire, that was 24 w desire.
25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, okay.
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1 The way Kim Harbin perceived this, though, was that 2 you were telling her thatM" had been made, had 3 been a decision maker to move up her day. That's the 4 way she read it.
5 Yes, and if I was Kim Harbin, 6 not knowing the facts, I can see where she would, she 7 could draw that correlation.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, let me ask 9 you this question. Why didn't you tell her during 10 this discussion that the decision to move up her day 11 had been made by That's who 12 made it, right?
13 es.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
15 Hindsight being 20/20, I 16 probably should have.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, any 18 reason why you didn't? Any particular reason?
19N 20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: If you look at 21 Page 24 of your Winston Strong transcript, and you had 22 a chance to review a page or two around that Page 24, 23 is that correct?
24 A Yes, I did.
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IV 1 in Line 12 there's a question, but the question was 2 did Mr. )discuss with you during this time you 3 need to out-process Ms. Harbin earlier than April 4 16th, you answer no.
5 Question, in her letter, her letter 6 meaning Kim Harbin's letter, she states that when she 7 met with you on the 24th, which you did meet with her 8 on the 24th, correct?
9 Answer, yes, as I said, somewhere around 10 the middle. Line 20, Question, she indicates that 11 quote, he told me, he meaning, being you, told me that 12 instructed HR to accelerate my departure 13 date to the end of the week.
14 Your answer there is not correct. Can you 15 tell me why your testimony there to Winston Strong is 16 not in conflict with what you told Kim Harbin on the 17 24th, during this taped conversation?
18 aBecause it's just as I related 19 before. When I'm reading that, I still believe that's 20 true. Quote, he told me that Mr. had 21 instructed HR to accelerate my departure date to the 22 end of the week.
23 o never instructed, ordered, directed 24 HR to accelerate the departure date at all. So that 25 is true. That is not what I told Kim Harbin.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Even 2 though she may have taken it that way.
3 Yes, she may have taken it that 4 way, but that's not what, that's not what I told her.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: She did take it 6 that way, all right. Okay, if you could go to -
7 By the way, I don't mean to get 8 loud.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That' s fine, you 10 can get loud. It's not going to bother me. Sometimes 11 I get loud.
12 Okay.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That's all 14 right. We've got business to do and that's fine.
15 Okay.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Go to the next 17 to the last page of the transcript of the telephone 18 call, please.
19 Okay.
20 MR. KEENAN: That's not a telephone call, 21 right?
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Oh, I'm sorry, 23 the face-to-face meeting.
24 14R. KEENAN: Okay.
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I0 1 meeting of March 24th.
2 MR. KEENAN: Okay. At least me established 3 it was a meeting now.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes. Next to 5 the last page.
6
.. Okay, sorry.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: At the bottom 8 there, it's written here, underneath your name, it 9 say 1 Okay, and Kim, the other thing is that in 10 talking t or talking to.
- is that I said 11 does Kim understand the position has been eliminated?
12 And I think there was a fear or is a fear 13 that you didn't understand that the position was or is 14 eliminated. Why did you say that to Kim?
15 Because Kim seemed to be going 16 to great lengths not to out, not to move on with her 17 life. When I look at people that are being 18 transitioned, that are leaving the company, their 19 desire should be to find another job and to move on, 20 either internal to PS or external to PS.
21 And there seemed to be, by all of her 22 machinations a desire not to leave the company and 23 almost a belief that she wasn't really laid off.
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/ 1-1 1 off.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: What was she 3 doing or not doing that led you to believe that? That 4 that's the way she was seeing it or feeling?
5 OAlmost a perception, as I said, 6 I understood she move 2 into another office. Just the 7 difficulty getting her to move ahead, like I said, as 8 far as the out-processing, that sort of thing.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Was she avoiding 10 you, did you believe that week, in dealing with her 11 out-processing?
12 Yes, absolutely.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: How was she 14 doing that?
15 Just the nature, the phone 16 conversations, almost what I'll call misleading.
17 There was this cat and mouse game. Well, I have work 18 to do for4 ) Then I have to run to 19 do you have anymore work for her to do?
20 No, AM I Im done wi th her. Oh, has 21 given me assignments. Then I have to run to and 22 say,!* )Kim is saying that she has assignments that 23 are going to take her into the May/June time frame, is 24 that true?
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bU 1 desire, probably not to mislead me, but that's how it 2 felt as though the senior leadership here was giving 3 her assignments that were going to take her beyond her 4 separation date.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you find 6 that to be true, that there were assignments that she 7 had to do?
8 . No, there weren't assignments.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
10 Okay. It's 3:36, we're going to go off the record for 11 a minute.
12 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 13 went off the record at 3:36 14 p.m., and went back on the 15 record at 3:40 p.m.)
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 3:30 in the 17 afternoon, this is a continuation of the interview 18 with . , I want to go one more thing 19 about this, the moving up of Kim's last day.
20 Sure.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, and 22 then I'll go into another area. But do you recall 23 attending a lunch-time type meeting here in HR with 24 ere Kim's, 25 moving up of her last day here was discussed?
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u-.
1 Yes, I do.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Tell me what you 3 remember about that?
4 I believe 5 were down, I think for a Salary Planning Meeting, it 6 was on the 24th. It was over a lunch time over in our 7 little library/cafeteria area.
8 You mentioned MP I think 9 (inaudible) was also in the meeting at the time.
10 Towards the end of the lunch break or whatever, 11 -aain reaffirmed that make sure that Kim 12 is out-processed.
13 Get it done, because obviously I didn't 14 meet the first commitment on the 21st.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
16 10 And just make it happen. And 17 I think that was the extent of it. We had a follow up 18 conversation, either then, later that day or the next 19 day and it was clear that it's completely done.
20 In other words, her access is done, 21 computers, everything else is turned off and when she 22 leaves, she's done.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you think you 24 had your meeting with Kim before that lunch time 25 meeting, or after?
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1 : According to my calendar it 2 says 11:00 to 11:30 was the meeting with Kim. Oh, in 3 fact, can I refer to my notes, I probably have the 4 time.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes. We' Ill stay 6 on the record while you do that.
7 Yes, according to my notes it 8 looks like the meeting was around noon.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: The meeting 10 with?
1i J)The meeting with Kim was around 12 noon.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
14 ) So this would have been 15 probably imediately after my meeting with Kim. I'm 16 sorry, I confused you. The meeting with Kim was 17 around noon.
18 My assumption is that the meeting with 19 nd others was after my meeting with Kim Harbin.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. So -
21 1: confused you.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes. Do you 23 think you met with Kim before this luncheon meeting 24 with 25 I believe that I did.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well, if you met 2 with Kim before the luncheon, you would have, you told 3 her during the meeting on the 24th, that her date had 4 been moved up.
5 So then why, why would you have told 6 at this luncheon meeting, hey, I told her 7 earlier today that her last day here is going to be 8 Friday?
9 4 Well, and it was an extension 10 of that meeting, like I said. I don't know if it was 11 then or a follow up that everything is done.
12 Because my recollection was that I told 13 Kim that she could have her access badge and stuff 14 until the 16th, and thenn MU reaffirmed 15 that, no, everything is done.
16 So that would be, did I lose you as far as 17 the consistency?
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I think so.
19 Yeah, all right. Let me, 20 should I try it one more time?
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Please.
22 MR. KEENAN: Well, let me just ask maybe a 23 couple of things. Could it be possible that that's 24 when you wrote the note, as opposed to when you had 25 the meeting? NEALR.GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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?34 1 That's probably when I wrote 2 the note.
3 MR. KEENA: One other question. At the 4 beginning of the tape you were getting a cup of 5 coffee. Do you drink coffee one particular time of.
6 the day?
7 774 7 *' Normally I drink coffee in the 8 morning.
9 MR. KEENAN: Do you have coffee at noon or 10 later?
11 No, not usually.
12 MR. KEENAN: Does that help refresh you as 13 to when the meeting may have been?
14 No, he asked to give my best 15 guess and my guess is that the meeting with Kim was in 16 the morning.
17 Like I said, the calendar shows 11:00 to 18 11:30. That probably sounds about right, wrote the 19 note somewhere around noon.
20 And then normally we eat lunch about 1:00, 21 1:00 or 1:30ish. And if I had to guess, that would be 22 my guess.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, you 24 guys eat lunch that late?
_ *.*_*,_*Right.
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85 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, all right.
2 Is that helpful?
3 ):Yeah, it might be. Yeah, and 4 I think it is, because -
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, 6 that's fine. Let's -
7 And then if, okay, I'm sorry.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: No, go ahead.
.9 Because when I read the 10 transcript it dawned on me, it sounded as though she 11 was going to have her access and computer and stuff 12 until the 16th of April.
13 I remember having a, I think Kim and I 14 talked about that maybe she didn't have her access.
15 She's going to have to turn in her computer and 16 everything.
17 I had a conversation with her, I'm 18 thinking around the 26th, which seemed to be, if I'm 19 her, inconsistent with what I told her the couple days 20 before. Did I lose you?
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: No, you didn't.
22 No, no. That might some of what went on there is Kim 23 viewed what she was being told as being inconsistent, 24 from more than one person.
25 Umm hmm.
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0O 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Could you shed 2 some light on why she may have been, why she may have 3 thought that there was inconsistent messages out there 4 about her leaving early?
5 Well, I can't really answer for 6 her, why she thought or had a particular train of 7 thought, so I don't -
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. But you 9 said that you had a conversation with her later in the 10 week, which you may have given her inconsistent 11 information. Go ahead and share with me what -
12 No, that's what I'm saying.
13 When I read, when I read the, it won't be a 14 transcript, but whatever was transcribed of our 15 conversation on the 24th.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: The taped 17 conversation?
18 )The taped conversation.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
20 As I read that, it appeared to 21 me as if I told her she could have her computer, that 22 sort of thing, until the 15th of April.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
24 a Later I'm thinking, and I don't 25 know if I have notes somewhere, around the 26th, inj](
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87 1 fact instead of rambling maybe I should just look at 2 the notes of the 26th.
3 Where I said she has to completely out-4 process. Meaning computers, turn in her badge, IDs, 5 and that would be, you know, if I'm sitting in Kim's 6 space, I would say well, gee, that's inconsistent. He 7 told me Monday I could keep that until the 16th, and 8 now he's saying, two days later, that I have to turn 9 everything in.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, okay.
11 And, I don't mean to talk loud.
12 MR. KEENAN: There is, these notes from 13 the 26th.
14 Okay.
15 MR. KEENAN: I don't know if it would help 16 refresh your recollection.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Go ahead and 18 look at them FpF, and then if you think it helps in 19 your recollection we can talk about that a little bit.
20 (Notes are being reviewed.)
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Now, after 22 reading your notes of your March 26th, meeting with 23 Kim, does it help you in your recollection?
24 . Yeah, it does on a couple of 25 fronts. The first is she had said earlier that she J (
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88 I had some more work to do. So it says I followed up 2 with 'after I our last conversation. So whenever I 3 talked to her last, if that was, let's just say it was 4 the 24th or whatever.
5 She saying she has more work to do. I had 6 confirmed withihat she has no more assignments, 7 so her assignments again are done. This is the piece 8 where I say it seems as though I was being misled.
9 I've got work foA,. IIve got work for 10 So, it's like, you don't have work for!
11 you don't have work forli your work is done.
12 And then I go on to say that be prepared 13 to out-process with and remember to 14 turn in company equipment, cell phones, credit cards, 15 as well as company IDs.
16 And I think, your words were inconsistent 17 or that it could cause confusion, and I can see where 18 that could happen. So as I read this, this seems to 19 be inconsistent with what I told her on the 24th.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, so you 21 told her on the 26th, there's portions of what you 22 told her on the 26th, that looking at it now, weren't 23 consistent with what you told her on the 24th?
24 Yeah, it looks inconsistent.
25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Regarding her 7 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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89 1 access and her keeping her computer, stuff of that 2 nature?
3Yes.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. All 5 right, we'll move to another area unless, Jeff, 6 there's something you want to go over?
7 MR. KEENAN: No, I think, but that 8 discussion on the 26th I think remedies or cures that, 9 I guess.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I'm going to go, i1 push towards closure here and then I'll take a break 12 and see if I need to ask you anything else.
13 Now, in any of the discussions you had 14 with Kim, did she ever raise any of these concerns to 15 you. Production over safety. Management in and of 16 itself was a safety issue.
17 Non-conservative decision making occurring 18 in the plant. Did she ever raise any of those 19 concerns to you?
20 - No, not directly.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: How about 22 indirectly?
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90 1 the 31st or so, where, maybe I should look at the 2 notes.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well, let me ask 4 you it this way. Prior to her leaving the plant, did 5 she ever raise such concerns to you?
6 No.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Prior to her 8 leaving the plant on the 28th, had anyone told you she 9 had raised such concerns to them?
10 No.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. I'm 12 aware of what told you, I do remember 13 reading that in your notes.
14 Okay.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And if memory 16 serves me correctly, and correct me if I'm wrong.
17 When you were told this you got this to the Employee 18 Concerns Program in some fashion?
19 fWell, I did two things. One, 20 I tol ecause he said Kim was going to call him 21 back. I sai when Kim calls you back, make sure that 22 you refer her to Employee Concerns.
23 And I tol lhat I was immediately 24 going to call Employee Concerns, and I called them I1C 25 within an hour, I think.
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91 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:Cý did 2 You call jabout it?
3 Yes, I called to say that 4 an employee concern had come in and he needs to follow 5 up.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Was that the 7 first time that you became aware that Kim had such a 8 concern?
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, okay.
11 And other than what you just described, the actions 12 you took after hearing this from( were you 13 instructed to take any actions to investigate whether 14 or not what she claimed was true or not?
15 No, I mean that's an employee 16 concern, I'm not -
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's a yes or no 18 question.
19 Okay, no, I didn't do anything.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: At some point 21 did you become aware of the letter that Kim Harbin 22 setaphonetic)?
23 I did at some point.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: How long after 25 she left the site do you think you became aware of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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92 1 that letter and what was in it?
2 I don't believe I've ever seen 3 the letter and what was in it.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: At some point 5 were you made to understand what was contained in the 6 letter?
7
- No. Let me just explain.
8 Portions of which, when I was interviewed, when was 9 it?
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: By Winston 11 Strong.
12 By Winston Strong, they kept on 13 referring to a letter and I didn't know what they were 14 talking about.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
16 So they're referring to a 17 letter and I didn't know what they were talking about.
18 So I just assumed that obviously there was a letter 19 that had come in.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. At 21 any point did Kim Harbin ask you if she had been 22 blackballed down here at the site?
23 No.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did anybody ever 25 tell you that that concern had been raised to them by .
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1 her?
2 No.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. It's 4 3:42. I'm going to review my notes, but at this point 5 I don't have any other questions.
6 I'm sure I'm going to have a couple of 7 follow up questions, but Jeff, if you want something, 8 if you want to go over something with your client, 9 we'll take a short break and then we'll finish up.
10 MR. KEENAN: It sounds good.
11 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 12 went off the record at 3:42 13 p.m., and went back on the 14 record at 4:05 p.m.)
15 SR. SPECIAL AGEN4T TEATOR: It' s 4: 05 in the 16 afternoon, I have a few follow up questions and then
- e-l-l--go-through--these.
18 4M think back to when you first heard 19 from *that Kim's position was being 20 eliminated. You heard that from i in the fourth 21 quarter of '02. I think that's what you testified.
22 - That's what I recall.
23 Somewhere in November, December time frame.
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94 1 is that information shared with the budget people so 2 they can, the budget going forward accordingly? And, 3 if so, when would that be shared with them?
4 :..It's not so much shared with 5 the budget people going forward so they can capture 6 the head count, it's shared with the budget folks so 7 they can start accruing or account for the expenses.
8 But my recollection is those things are 9 still very tight to the vest and we don't share that 10 until after the employee is-notified.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. At some 12 point were there discussions held that this decision 13 to eliminate. Kim's position should be shared with 14 ;* o Do you know wh*llmi_-_ * , is?
15 Yes, iworks up in 16 Accounting for (inaudible). Yeah, I knowb 17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: He was doing the 18 accounting for was here.
19 ,;Okay, yeah, yeah.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: At some point 21 were there discussions held where the decision to 22 eliminate Kim's position needed to be shared with 23 24 - I'm not sure if they were 25 shared directly with or someone else in the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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95 1 group, but that would be the typical process. I 2 didn't speak directly with.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And would the 4 typical process be that the budget people, the 5 accounting people would not be made aware of this 6 until after the employee had already been notified?
7 Is that the normal process?
-8 There or in close proximity.
9 Just for confidentiality.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. At 11 any point did you tell Kim Harbin that it was(
12 *who had made the decision to move up Kim's 13 last day to March 28th?
- 14. 0o.
15 SR.. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: At any point did 16 you say that to Kim?
~No.
17 18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. I 19 have a copy of a fax cover sheet dated April 14, 2003.
20 It's to 1 Ml. from you. Is that your 21 handwriting?
- ~Yes, it is.
22 23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. And under 24 the comments section it has written in there 25 .I wanted you to have a copy of '
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96 1 that' memo of October 31, 2001.
2 That's the e-mail we talked about before.
- Umm hmm.
3 4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Please note that 5 it was considered a, and you have in quotes, 6 rotational, end quote, and underlined, assignment, 7 with no guarantee of employment beyond 2002.
8 Can you tell me why you sent that toi 9
10 Just as a reminder, as far as 11 their files, or -to make sure that they had full 12 accounting of the circumstances around Kim and her 13 assignment.
14 I think she was already copied on it, so 15 it was - no, she was not.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: She may -have 17 been copied down here.
18 ')okay, there it is, okay.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: On the original,.
20 you meant.
- Yes-.
21 22 SR.- SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I guess my 23 question is why did you feel a need to send this to 24 WM wbtn )on April 14th, '03, and write this 25 that please note that it was considered a rotational NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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97 1 assignment with no guarantee of employment beyond 2 2002. Why did you feel a need to write that 3 information on the cover sheet? Was there a reason?
4 No, just to, I guess, 5 accentuate that it was a rotational (inaudible).
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, but what 7 was bringing that up? What caused you to send that up 8 to them, with that note written on there?
9 I'm trying to remember. I 10 don't think they. requested it. I'm not really sure, 11 other than to bring their attention to that.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you recall 13 there being questions raised surrounding why Kim's 14 positions was eliminated in April of '04, '03, why, do 15 you recall if there were questions raised on why her 16 position was eliminated?
17 Yeah, the interviews I had with 18 Winston Strong, I think there were questions around 19 that.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. When as 21 that, Jeff?
22 MR. KEENAN: ý)interview?
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.
24 MR. KEENAN: I think it was April 9th.
25 Let's check that. It was April 9th.
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98 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, fine. I 2 don't need to go into that, I just wanted the date.
3 All right. One more question, it's just a repeating 4 question.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Who's decision 7 was it to move up Kim's last date of work here at the 8 plant, from April 16th, to make it earlier than that.
9 Who's decision was that?
10 It was on 11 March the 18th.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, and did 13 they, did both of them provide direction to you to 14 make that happen?
15 . Yes, they did.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And did you 17 carry out that action and it ultimately resulted in 18 Kim's last day being March 28th, 2003?
19 . That's correct.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Was it 21 decision that Kim's last day be moved 22 up from April 16th, to March 28th?
23 No, it wasn't.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, it 25 was j ...-
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99 1 )That's correct.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That she would 3 be moved up from April 16th?
4 5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 4:11 in the 6 afternoon. I don't think I have anything right now 7 further. If I do need to re-interview you or ask you 8 something I forgot to, I'll contact Jeff.
9 Right now I don't think I have to do that, 10 but if something comes up, Jeff, I'll just contact 11 you. Is there something you want to add for the 12 record?
13 MR. KEENAN: No. I appreciate it, thank 14 you.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, &
16 we've gone over a lot today. Is there something you 17 feel I need to know about what I'm looking at? You 18 know what I'm looking at.
19 Is there something that you would like to 20 bring to light now that we haven't gotten to yet 21 today?
22 \No. I think you covered most of 23 the, hopefully all of the information that you needed.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yeah, don't say 25 most, because if we go into most, we're going to dive NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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100 1 back in. Because if there's something that we didn't 2 get at today that you now feel you need to bring 3 forward, that's important to what I'm looking at.
4 No, I think you adequately 5 covered it. We've talked about confusion on her part 6 and she wouldn't have had the knowledge of what 7 happened on the 18th, so from her vantage point, I can 8 understand why she thought it was confusing or 9 whatever.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:* Or that there 11 were mixed messages, maybe?
12 Umm hnmm, yeah, no, I 13 understand.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
15 Jeff?
16 MR. KEENAN: Nothing further.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, it' s 4:12, 18 this interview is concluded, thank you.
19 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter 20 was concluded at 4:12 p.m.)
21 J/
22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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