ML062000220
| ML062000220 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Salem, Hope Creek  |
| Issue date: | 05/05/2004 |
| From: | NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 1-2003-045, FOIA/PA-2005-0194 | |
| Download: ML062000220 (62) | |
Text
1 3
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Information in this r in accordance with Act, exem-___n4 F01A-
- UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS INTERVIEW x
(
IN THE MATTER OF:
INTERVIEW OF
(
I Docket No.
1-2003-045
- ' T _- ' -. '..
. ý.
CO
"'(CLOSED) x Wednesday, May 5, 2004 U.S.
NRC Region I Office King of Prussia, Pennsylvania The above-entitled interview was conducted.
BEFORE:
Senior Special Agent JEFF TEATOR lor a deleted Freedom of Informatlori COURT NEAL R. GROSS
- REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.
ASHINGTON. D.C. 20005-3701 AGE r
W IrQr 2 ) 234-4433 I1VV www.nealrgross.com
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 APPEARANCES:
JEFF KEENAN, Solicitor, PSEG Services NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2
No time indicated.
3 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
On the 4
record.
Today's date is May 5, 2004.
My name is 5
Jeffrey Teator.
I'm a Senior Special Agent with the 6
United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Office of 7
Investigations.
8 This morning I'm interviewing 9
-This interview is taking place in a
10 first floor conference room at the U.S.
Nuclear 11 Regulatory Commission Region I Office in King of 12 Prussia, Pennsylvania.
prior to 13 going on the record this morning, did I show you my 14 identification?
15 Yes.
16 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
This is a
17 voluntary interview.
Knowing it's voluntary, do you 18 wish to go forward?
19 Yes.
20 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you have 21 any objection this morning to providing sworn 22 testimony?
23 No objection.
24 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Could you 25 raise your right hand for me please?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 WHEREUPON, 2
1..
w.......
3 was called as a witness and, having been first duly 4
sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
5 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Thank you.
6 M-f-iifJ-1 you are being interviewed this 7
morning as a fact witness in an investigation I'm 8
conducting regarding allegations of violations of 10 9
CFR 50.7.
That's the Employee Protection Regulation 10 of the NRC.
11 This investigation involves an allegation 12 that a Dr.
Kim Harvin, a former employee of PSEG 13 Nuclear, was retaliated or discriminated against in 14 violation of 10 CFR 50.7.
That's what I'm talking to 15 you about.
And again, you are a fact witness.
It is 16 your obligation to answer all my questions truthfully 17 and completely.
Do you understand that?
18
.Yes.
19 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Can I call 20 you i..
21 Please.
22 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
23 are represented by counsel today.
If counsel could 24 identify himself for the record please and explain the 25 representation.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 MR.
KEENAN:
Yes, my name is Jeff Keenan.
2 I am Assistant General Solicitor for PSEG Services.
3 Today I am representin g(!1 1*60' and PSEG 4
Nuclear in a joint capacity.
I'm familiar with the 5
issues relative to Dr. Harvin.
6 I've evaluated against conflict.
I don't 7
believe there is a conflict in my representation with 8
"-j-..
If a conflict arises, we'll take a 9
break from the record and best handle that.
In 10
- addition, we would appreciate the opportunity to 11 review the transcript in the presence of the NRC when 12 it's available.
13 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Oka
/
14 is that your understanding of your representation.
Yeit is.
16 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Does your 17 employer require you to have an attorney represent you 18 when you are interviewed by 01?
19 No, having Jeff here was 20 strictly my request.
21 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Were you in 22 any way threatened with any type of adverse action if 23 you did not request counsel to represent you during 24 this interview?
25 000M..
No.
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3 4
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you understand that you have a right to a private interview by 01 if you wanted one?
- Yes, I do.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Knowing all of this, do you wish to go forward with counsel present?
- 41DfYes, please.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
and place of birth please.
Date of Your date birth is SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Fighting Irish.
Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
security number.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Social Your home address please.
1ý7
'ý"ý-7
-7ý7' SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
fd~.iK..
Your home phone number.
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2 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Have you 3
ever served in the United States Military?
4
-Uz!
No.
5 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Have you 6
attended college?
7 Yes.
8 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Which 9
college?
10 Ila NO" W.,
12 13 14 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
When did you 15 get your Bachelor's Degree?
16 Bachelor's Degree was in 17
\\
18 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
You got a 19 Master's from there also in'"
20 And 21 1
I graduated in'"it 22 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What's 23 24 25 It's a
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°
2 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
At some 3
point, were you hired to work at PSEG Nuclear?
4 Yes.
5 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
When was 6
that?
7 8
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Was that 9
your first employment at PSEG Nuclear at their power 10 plants?
11 m
Yes.
12 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What was 13 your job title?
14 t
NrMFz My job title was iss 16 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Who did you 17 report to?
18 When I was first hired 19 in
- April, I
reported to( a gentleman named C' 20 In May of 2002,'
ransferred to the home 21 offices in
- Newark, New Jersey in a
completely 22 different job.
At which point in
- time, I reported 23 directly to 24 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What did you 25 specifically do for the nuclear part of the business NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15
.16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 in your position?
Maybe you can just give me a
general description of that.
Yes, the most concise way to characterize it is that I was essentially the for PSEG Nuclear.
I had responsibility for financial reporting, financial analysis, strategic planning function.
- Also, most recently when I left as we were consolidating some of the functions in the organization, I
also had responsibIlities for supply team management, the station security organization, and emergency planning function.
So it was basically all the support and admin functions for PSEG Nuclear.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
That's a lot on your plate.
=.
.... i*
Yes.
/
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Which groups did you directly supervise?
.7..I....
- Specifically it was the finance group, supply chain, ITM, HR.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Business services?
thank you.
Business services, yes, SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
I help where NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 4
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I can.
M' I appreciate it.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
There's a lot of groups here.
Yes, and most recently, the time that I think you are interested in knowing about, I didn't have it but when I left nuclear I had security and emergency planning.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Why do you think I would be interested in that?
I don't know.
You asked me a question.
I was just trying to be comprehensive in my answer.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
At some point, did you leave the employment of PSEG Nuclear?
Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
When was that?
j_.
That was in._
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Your current job title.
I ' the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Is some of your work still in regards to the power plant?
- /
Nuclear, yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
So you came on board there in*.j Correct.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Down at the site that you work at.
Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: There's been talk of a Navigant Study.
Do you know what that is?
- Yes, I know.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you know when that was completed?
We commissioned the study.
It would have been in the summer of 2002, precisely July-August timeframe.
It was completed in draft form in September.
I think we got the final report in October.
It would have been that timeframe.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did the draft and the final change much?
iNo, there were no real material changes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
Wording, things like that.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 Some presentations, yes.
2 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What was the 3
purpose of that study being completed or performed?
4 In my role as strategic 5
planning, one of our main responsibilities was trying 6
to work with senior management and chart the future 7
direction for the organization in terms of, what were 8
going to be our priorities, what was going to be our 9
focus areas.
One of the very important priorities 10 that we had was trying to move the overall nuclear 11 department's performance into top quartile performance 12 across not only safety but reliability, cost, and some 13 of our people performance indicators.
14 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Let's talk 15 about the cost portion of that.
16 Sure.
17 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Can you go 18 ahead and talk about that?
19 Sure.
It depends upon 20 your perspective.
We were either in the top quartile 21 or the lowest quartile in terms of cost performance 22 across the nuclear industry.
When I
say "your 23 perspective," I mean we spent more per kilowatt hour 24 than almost any nuclear power plant in the United 25 States.
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1 So again, it was a matter of efficiency.
2 It was a matter of proper deployment of resources.
3 When you dissected and analyzed where our costs were 4
going and, as we say in PSEG, what levers we had to 5
pull in order to manage where those costs were going 6
and the relative priorities on them, it really came 7
fundamentally down to principally in administrative 8
areas and principally in terms of process efficiencies 9
that we had of getting work done that we were not in 10 alignment with the rest of the nuclear industry in 11 terms of our headcount.
12 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Number of 13 employees on the site.
14
'*° ia:ii:
Number of employees and 15 not only direct employees but contract employees as 16 well.
We were just outside the norm in virtually 17 every measure.
18 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
Were 19 you given any responsibility to use that study to 20 identify where at the site positions could be 21 eliminated?
22 I'm not sure I
23 understand exactly.
If you are asking me was I given 24 direction to do that, it was --
25 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Were you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 given the responsibility?
2 It was certainly within 3
my purview as 4
o help the senior leadership team understand 5
that, provide the analysis and supporting analysis 6
that I could then propose to them and suggest to them 7
where our attention needed to be directed. Ultimately 8
the accountability was on them to either take action 9
or not.
But that was my principal accountability.
10 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you 11 follow through on that accountability?
12 W:
Absolutely.
13 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What did you 14 recommend?
Let's talk specifically about staff 15 positions if we could.
16 i
J Okay.
Again, there was 17 no question that in just staff positions that we were 18 very much outside the norm.
The Navigant Study pretty 19 well captured that issue.
By "staff positions," the 20 spotlight shined very heavily in my area because 21 largely my area is staff for the most part.
22
- Now, relative to the question that I
23 answered earlier in terms of at that time security and 24 emergency planning were not under my scope.
So then 25 what we're talking about is things like IT, Human NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 Resources, the strategic planning
- function, and 2
finance function.
3 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Business 4
services.
5 Business
- services, 6
exactly.
Within that, the vast majority of my staff 7
was actually in the supply chain organization.
I can 8
give you round numbers, a rough concept.
I had about 9
150 or 160 people under my responsibility.
About 100 10 of them, again in round numbers, were in the supply 11 chain area.
12 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What does 13 that mean, "supply chain?"
14 Supply chain, that is in 15 your mind's eye if you can imagine from a point in 16 time that someone inside the operation and maintenance 17 organization requires a part or material, that process 18 from the time that they identify that they need it to 19 the time it is actually delivered to the location.
So 20 that's specifying it, warehousing it, ordering it, 21 receipt inspection, transportation, logistics, 22 delivery, if there's a replacement, the engineering, 23 the procurement engineering associated with it.
So 24 it's that whole aspect.
25 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
In NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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.L VJ 1
your organization then, were positions identified for 2
elimination as to implement this Navigant Study and 3
what it found?
4
-Yes.
5 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What areas?
Probably the main first 7
focus was the administrative services area.
That was 8
clearly an area where we identified who there were 9
several people in that organization that really were 10 not, in the grand scheme of things, providing a lot of 11 value.
12 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
No value.
13 I didn't say "no value."
14 I said they were not providing a lot of value.
15 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
I'm 16 sorry.
That was my word.
17 Okay.
So that was the 18 first area of focus.
19 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Were those 20 jobs eliminated?
21 UE Yes.
22 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
When was 23 that approximately?
24 Late third-early fourth 25 quarter 2003.
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1 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
'03?
2
/M I'm sorry,
'02.
Thank 3
you.
4 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
You said 5
third or fourth quarter.
6
- Yes, it was late third 7
quarter or early fourth quarter.
8 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you guys 9
run on a calendar year?
10 Yes.
11 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What other 12 groups underneath you lost positions?
13 li)The next high visibility 14 area was the IT group.
The characterization that I 15 would make around IT was really this -
and this is 16 relative to IT as well as the HR function - that we 17 had created our own little IT organization inside PSEG 18 Nuclear that was matrixed to the corporate IT 19 function.
20 We had identified that that relationship 21 was really creating inefficiencies in terms of, the 22 corporation was trying to implement standardized IT 23 processes, standardized IT platforms, standardized 24 purchase to doing business.
By us keeping this 25 separate function out there, it was actually impeding NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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°
1 our ability to make forward progress in terms of the 2
overall implementation of the standardized IT 3
platform.
We had redundant roles and responsibilities 4
on-site relative to what the corporation was trying to 5
do.
6 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
Those 7
are the reasons that the job elimination was being 8
identified at the site.
When did they occur and how 9
many positions were eliminated?
10 Again, the study came 11 out in September-October)
We went through the 12 analysis of the positions.
The report came out.
We 13 read it.
We analyzed it.
It was in parallel with the 14 final report coming out.
I think we set a target date 15 to have all the positions that we were going to 16 eliminate identified and people notified late October-17 early November with the concept that the people could 18 have the opportunity to take advantage of looking for 19 new positions, etc., prior to the Christmas timeframe.
20 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Were those 21 people informed at the same time the admin services 22 people were informed?
23 I
would say it was 24 materially the same time.
There might have been a 25 week or two lag.
In the admin support, it was really NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS I I 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 just job elimination.
Whereas, with the IT, we were 2
trying to interface much with the corporate IT 3
function and make sure that we were eliminating 4
redundancies as opposed to just eliminating positions.
5 So there was a little bit more work that had to be 6
done.
7 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
How many 8
people from admin services lost their job?
How many 9
positions were eliminated?
10 In round numbers, about 11 four or five or six, somethIing like that.
12 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Four to six, 13 is that fair?
14 Yes.
15 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
In IT, how 16 many positions were eliminated?
I understand the 17 difference.
You just described it.
18 I'm trying to think.
I 19 think that we-started out with either 15 or 18 people.
20 We proposed cutting it roughly in half down to the 21 eight, nine, or ten range.
Ultimately when it was 22 finally implemented, I think we actually ended up with 23
- 12.
So we eliminated roughly a quarter to a third in 24 staff size.
25 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
About six NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 4
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7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 then approximately?
Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you make the decision to do both of those things, to make both of those job eliminations in those two groups?
Was that your decision?
-- /"
Ultimately I
was accountable for that decision.
The analysis and the design and the structure and all of that was actually being done by the supervisors of the respective groups who are my direct reports.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you inf or (;;U-f your plan for job elimination in those two areas?
MM"--...
Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you recall if he approved or disapproved of what you had planned to do?
If you are asking me did he explicitly say, "I endorse it or not, " that really wasn't the way
)worked.
Basically (l ave me the accountability for managing my organization.
It was only if he had an objection to it that he would really voice it.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 object to it?
2 No.
3 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did other 4
groups that you supervised go through the same type of 5
thing?
If so, which other groups had positions 6
eliminated?
7 A
- Yes, every group that 8
worked for me went through the same thing.
9 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Would it be 10 all of them?
11
-- a Ak Yes.
12 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did each of 13 those groups lose positions?
14 Bl-M:
The timing on it was 15 different.
I'll give you a good example.
The supply 16 chain organization went through the same analysis and 17 the same process.
The numbers were so much larger.
18 Also, at the corporate level, there was a supply chain 19 initiative ongoing in parallel with that.
20 So we had to coordinate the changes that 21 we were trying to implement with the changes that were 22 being done in the corporation supply chain function.
23 So those changes that ultimately got implemented in 24 the supply chain organization lagged quite a bit 25 relative to these other ones.
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1 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you have 2
accountability to recommend position eliminations in 3
other groups?
4 M WYes.
5 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Ones that 6
you did not supervise?
7 Yes.
8 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Like b 9
group, did you make recommendations in the 10 staff positions in his area?
11 Yes.
12 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Tell me what 13 they were.
14 NIow".
There were no 15 recommendations explicitly. The conversations that we 16 basically had were similar to what I just mentioned to 17 you.
But if you looked at the Navigant Study results, 18 administrative functions in general, as I recall that 19 was one specific category, but for administrative 20 positions in general, we were clearly outside the norm 21 and that not only but all of the other senior 22 leaders there needed to take a very hard look at the 23 staff positions that were in their organizations and 24 identify where we could potentially eliminate 25 positions.
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1 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you 2
communicate that to
't 3
Yes.
4 SENIOR SPECIAL GENT TEATOR:
Let's talk 5
just about him now.
6 Yes.
7 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you make 8
a recommendation to him?
9 Beyond what I
just 10 described, no.
11 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Let me ask 12 you this.
Did you recommend that staff positions 13 should be eliminated in his area of responsibility?
14 Yes.
15 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you 16 specifically recommend any particular position for 17 elimination?
Kim Harvin's position, let's talk about 18 that.
19 No, it was just a very 20 global statement regarding staff positions.
21 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
When you had 22 that discussion withfl how did he respond 23 to that?
24 I could speculate.
25 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Well, don't NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4.. -Z speculate.
Do you remember how he responded to that specifically?
would say his initial reaction was he intellectually understood exactly what I was saying and he didn't object to it.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
When do you think you had that conversation with him?
Would it have been in
'02 or '03?
It was the summer of
'02, June, July, August timeframe.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
So you are having that discussion with him prior to the Navigant Study being received in draft form.
Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Why?
You didn't ask me a lot about my experience.
Essentially I've worked in the nuclear business for virtually all of my professional career.
I have worked in the top quartile operating plants.
I have worked at the bottom quartile operating plants.
And I'll back up even further than that.
The knowledge that we had before we even commissioned the Navigant Study was that we had issues in our staffing.
We knew that we were overly staffed inside the nuclear department.
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4 J 1
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
In staff 2
positions?
3 In general.
4 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
5 The purpose of the 6
Navigant Study was to really try to be very tactical 7
and very strategic about which positions it was that 8
we were over-staffed in.
So my instincts and my 9
experience suggested to me that the first high value 10 opportunity was to go look at staff positions.
11 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
And 12 you had a discussion with' in the summer-13 of '02.
14 Yes, early summer of 15
'02.
16 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you 17 recall if Kim Harvin was specifically mentioned during 18 that discussion?
19 No, there was nothing 20 specific.
21 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
So jump 22 forward.
You get the Navigant Study draft.
You get 23 the formal report in October.
Did you then have 24 additional discussions with,S regarding his 25 elimination of staff positions under his area of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 4
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 responsibility?
Yes, there were ongoing discussions basically from the summer through early
'03.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
During any of those discussions did Kim Harvin's name or position come up as potential for elimination?
I cannot remember specifically any specific instances.
However, given the nature of it, I'm certain that at some point in time we had very specific conversations.
But I don't remember it.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
We know today that her position was eliminated.
low".I' Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Were any other staff positions unde eliminated as part of this overall process that's going on?
SYes, some of those admin support functions that I
eliminated, they were directly under my accountability.
However, they were positions that directly worked for..W Do you understand what I'm trying to describe there?
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Yes.
They took their day to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 2
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 day direction from
, They did day to day support of But they were in my cost center.
I had very specific conversations with r about the elimination of those positions.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
How did that go?
Did he agree or disagree with that?
There was no objection whatsoever to that.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you remember the names of those people who specifically were underneath you but really worked fork My memory doesn't serve me well right now.
If somebody gave me a name, I
could tell you specifically.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Jeff, do you have that?
MR.
KEENAN:
Maybe.
- i.
was one, absolutely.
Again, he was a former supervisor.
He ultimately ended up out in training.
I don't even know who I'm thinking of.
I can't remember names.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
If it comes into your head, I'd like to get that.
)Those two in particular were positions that again worked directly for'.0w.;
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28 1
but they were under my cost center.
We had very 2
specific conversations about eliminating those.
3 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
And they 4
were eliminated.
5 And they were 6
eliminated.
7 MR.
KEENAN:
- Jeff, you had previously 8
requested a list from us from those that have left.
9 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Yes.
10 MR.
KEENAN:
We're in the process of 11 getting that.
I should have that to you tomorrow.
12 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
13 MR. KEENAN:
I just do not have it for you 14 today.
15 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
16 That's fine.
Let's talk a little bit about the admin 17 services positions and the IT positions in general.
18 Sure.
19 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Were those 20 people given 45 days to find another job within the 21 company?
22 Yes.
23 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Is that the 24 normal process?
25
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1 you my understanding of the corporate policy.
It's 2
been some time since I
have reviewed it.
The 3
corporate policy basically says that you are given 30 4
days notice.
Then you are given some period of time 5
in which you are given the opportunity to find another 6
position inside the company.
7 Then after that time period, if you 8
basically haven't found another position inside the 9
- company, there's a severance package that you are 10 entitled to take.
The company retains the right or 11 the discretion that in that 45 day time period, do you 12 come to work everyday at your normal work location, do 13 you come to work everyday at an alternate location, or 14 do we just ask you to stay home?
15 I remember specifically in the IT area 16 those people we asked to come to work everyday because 17 they were involved in the turn over of the work that 18 they were doing to the people who were ultimately 19 going to take it on.
My recollection of the admin 20 support people, I don't believe that we asked them to 21 come to work because there was really nothing that 22 they had to turn over to anybody because we were 23 essentially eliminating their positions that they were 24 doing.
25 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Thank you.
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1 Let's take a very short break.
2 Sure.
3 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Of f the 4
record.
5 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter went off 6
the record and went back on the record.)
7 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
We're back 8
on the record after a short break.
9 I want to ask you a couple of questions.
Your duties 10 as you described, you were the(I for the nuclear 11 group down at the plant, correct?
12 Correct.
13 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
As part of 14 your responsibilities in that area, didrl,
/m 15 have his own budget?
16
-pow.,
Yes, he did.
17 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did he 18 develop it or did people who worked for you develop 19 his budget?
20 All of the above.
21 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Was it 22 reviewed and approved by your group?
23
- 5 n
Well, we were a support
\\)
24 function so we truthfully didn't approve anything.
25 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 review it?
(7*...
, 1% Did we review it? Yes.
Did we go oVer it with them?
Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
In Mr.( :udget for the time period you were there, did he have to budget for staff positions for the next year?
I know the Government has to project how many jobs you are going to have.
- -I*I,
! Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you remember if for his budget for 2003 whether Kim Harvin's job was b~idgeted?
S:.Truthfully I don't know.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Would there be documentation on that?
(,l I doubt you could ever find a line item with her name assigned to it.
But you could certainly put all the pieces together to know whether it was in there or not, to give you some confidence whether it was or was not.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
I have asked for the information surrounding that.
But the way (V
explained it, I'm just asking for it again on the record.
MR.
KEENAN:
Yes.
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32 1
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
That might 2
take some time.
3 MR. KEENAN:
That's correct.
I have been 4
working on that request and have identified a specific 5
individual in the organization that I think has that 6
information.
He is working toward that.
Maybe this 7
would refresl
)trecollection.
It might be 8
9 i
")would have that 10 information.
11 MR.
KEENAN:
I made that request to him.
12 He is moving forward with that.
But as of today, he 13 has not supplied me with any information.
14 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
I 15 figured I would ask1 '
16 MR.
KEENAN:
That's fine.
17 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
He was the 18 Before I leave this Navigant position
/
19 elimination area in the summer-fall-early winter of 20
'02, is there something more you want to share that I 21 haven't gotten to specifically regarding staff 22 reductions, in particular Kim Harvin's position, that 23 I haven't gotten at yet?
24 I
can't think of 25 anything.
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1 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
2 Again, really just to 3
wrap it up, our whole strategy and everything that we 4
were about was really focused in on quartile 5
performance in this order;
- priority, safety, 6
reliability, and cost.
We had other sections of the 7
organization that were focusing in on the safety and 8
reliability piece.
My responsibility was on the cost 9
side.
10 We had done, I think, a very credible 11 analysis of what were the cost drivers, and given that 12 we were driving in that direction, what were the 13 elements that we had control over? Again, the idea of 14 going after staff positions was step one of what was 15 going to be a relatively lengthy process as we were 16 trying to drive our performance into the top quartile.
17 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
You were 18 interviewed by Winston Strong (PH),
is that correct?
19 Yes.
20 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
I have a 21 copy of that transcript.
I would like you to look 22 over a couple of pages.
Then I have a few questions 23 for you.
I will give you time to do that.
24
.) Sure.
25 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
You can read NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 as much as you want.
I'm thinking if you read page 17 2
to the bottom of page 18 that should help.
But if you 3
want to read more, please feel free to do so.
While 4
s doing that, we're going to go off 5
the record.
6 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter went off 7
the record and went back on the record.)
8 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
We're back 9
on the record after a short break. (
) have you had 10 a chance to read pages 17 and 18 to get a little bit 11 of the context of this area I'm talking about?
12
-'Yes.
13 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
I guess to 14 finish this
- area, it's talking about position 15 eliminations.
Do you agree?
16 Yes.
17 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you have 18 page 18 there, Jeff?
19 MR.
KEENAN:
Yes, we do.
20 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Page 18 line 21 21 please.
22 Okay.
23 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
That would 24 be Mike McGary (PH) is asking questions.
Do you know 25 Mr.
McGary (PH)?
Do you remember him?
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1 I recall him.
2 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
He asked a 3
question after you gave a long answer about position 4
eliminations, discussions, communications surrounding 5
that general issue, that very issue.
He asked the 6
- question, "Is it likely that her name" - "her" being 7
Kim Harvin "would have come up in those 8
discussions?"
You responded, "I
consider it 9
unlikely."
I read your whole transcript, but your 10 answer struck me.
Why did you answer like that?
I 11 guess that's my question.
12 I'll go back to some of 13 the things that you and I talked about earlier.
My 14 focus in this timeframe, again, was basically dealing 15 with the staff positions that worked for me very 16 specifically.
In a very generic fashion, without 17 getting into any details so much so with the other 18 people, the other officers of PSEG Nuclear andio*
19 specifically, I did not put myself in the position to 20 definitively say, "You need to eliminate this job, 21 this job or this job."
22 Really my whole focus was, "I'm going to 23 deal with my organization specifically.
And I'm going 24 to push the rest of you guys to really get into and 25 understand your organization and understand are you a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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candidate or are there candidates in your organization 2
or not."
So when I said this, and even back to some 3
of the testimony I gave earlier, I would not have put 4
myself in a position specifically to go to or orl.1or 6
anyone else in the organization and specifically 7
- identify, "You need to eliminate this position" 8
because truthfully I wasn't in a position to do that.
9 I would have put myself in the position to 10 say, "The Navigant Study clearly indicates and by our 11 own analysis suggests we have too many staff 12 positions.
I need you to really be very rigorous and 13 do your own detailed analysis and identify, do you or 14 don't you believe that your organization needs to 15 eliminate staff."
So when I answered as definitively 16 as I did here, I would never have gone to nd 17 suggested that he needed to eliminate specific 18 positions.
19 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Or names.
20 i:
Or
- names, yes, 21 absolutely.
)
22 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
23 I don't want to put words in your mouth.
24 Yes.
25 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Let me ask -
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2 Can I just finish out 3
that thought?
4 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Yes.
5---
It could be very 6
possible that in a passing conversation in the hallway 7
or a casual conversation somewhere, could her or 8
somebody else's' name come up in a
casual 9
conversation?
It's very possible.
I just don't 10 recall it.
11 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Let me ask 12 you the question this way.
When you had your first 13 discussion withJ' in the summer of
'02 14
- about, "We have too many positions down here at the 15 plant," general discussion, did he make any statement 16 during that discussion that he would not consider 17 eliminating Kim Harvin's position?
Did he make that 18 type of statement?
19 That he would not?
20 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
He would 21 not.
You are telling him the study shows this.
Our 22 own study shows this.
He comes back to you.
"I 23 understand 7'W but one position I'm not going to 24 consider eliminating is Kim Harvin's."
Did he make 25 such a statement to you?
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 38 No, absolutely not.
was very open that if' you came to him with a comprehensive, well thought out analysis, he would listen to almost anything.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
The Navigant Study comes in, a draft in September.
In October, you get the final report.
You have discussions with I
guess they are continuing discussions probably from the summer through whenever it was done.
0-1 Right VICE CHAIRMAN RYAN:
During any of those discussions, did V W
- say, I'I m not going to eliminate Kim Harvin's position.
I may have to agree to all of this, but I'm not going to eliminate hers"?
No, I was never a party l
to any of those conversations.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
I don't know if they occurred or not.
I'm asking if he ever said that in your presence when you are bringing him this information.
No.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
Let's talk about a January 2003 meeting at mresidence.
A-Yes.
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9 39 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
My understanding is it occurred in early January of '03.
It was a Saturday morning meeting.
4i Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you recall this meeting?
I -Yes.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you attend the meeting?
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 there?
) Yes, I did.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Why were you The purpose of this meeting was really as a matter of management practice at PSEG Nuclear.
As a senior leadership team, we got together.
Our objective was to try to do it on a quarterly basis.
Sometimes it was a little longer in frequency.
Sometimes it was a little shorter in frequency.
But our objective was to meet on a quarterly basis and as a group try to get some consensus around relative performance of all of our direct reports.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Job performance.
1 4
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1 exactly.
Again, it was in the spirit of a 360 degree 2
review, force ranking-type of context where I could 3
certainly rate my reports.
But getting input and 4
feedback from my peers would add value to that whole 5
process and would add a measure of credibility to it.
6 So we met.
This was actually the third 7
time that I know of that we met.
This particular 8
meeting in January had particular significance because 9
it coincided with our annual performance review 10 process.
The feedback and input from this meeting in 11 particular was intended to be direct input to the 12 final 2002 performance review for all the people that 13 we were intending to speak to.
14 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Was Kim 15 Harvin's job performance discussed?
16 Yes.
17 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
In what way?
18 Who first brought it up?
19 RV!
Well, this was a rather 20 lengthy meeting.
Again, basically the protocol for 21 the meeting was,
- you, as part of this team, would 22 bring your direct report's name.
We had a ranking 23 system.
My recollection is it was A, B, C, D; A being 24 high performance and D being low performance.
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 with your ranking and then your basis for their overall score and ranking.
You would present a name and your arguments for why you rated the person the way you did.
Then there was a roundtable discussion from your peers relative to your observations and your ranking and things like that.
The idea was to get some consistency of ranking across that peer group.
Generally we tried to focus on operations and maintenance first.
So (PH) and ould present their direct reports.
ould then present his.
I presented mine.
Then as I recall, 0 was last and he presented his direct reports.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What can you recall him saying regarding Kim Harvin's performance?
Or did he speak to it?
A O
No, he didn't.
That was one of the things that I do remember.,.
asically put her name out and waited for input, waited for response.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did he do that for all of his direct reports or just her?
I truthfully don't remember because, of course, all of us were direct reports of d as well.
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Truthfully I don't even recall if he had other direct reports, again, other than the four of us sitting around the table.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
So hrows her name out for discussion.
Right.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you provide input?
11
- iYes, in fact, what I recall is that I was the very first person to provide input.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Can you tell me what you said?
Yes, I tried to context my comments in that I didn't have a tremendous amount of direct comment with Kim.
But I could remember one very specific incident where Kim was directly involved with and engaged with my organization and that I was dissatisfied with the results that she had gotten.
So my observation or my input to(
when he was doing his ranking was that I was not satisfied with her performance.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Can you just give me a little bit about what you observed?
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9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 back to one of the very first things you asked, one of the areas that I forgot I had accountability for was the employee concerns program.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
- M Iw And it's particularly in
/
this context.
The way we tried to manage the employee concerns program was that as much as was humanly possl.ble we tried to keep the accountability for employee interaction and dealing with employee concerns as much as possible with the line management.
In other words, if the employee had an issue or whatever, the employee concerns program was there to facilitate in getting the problem resolved and certainly would serve as the backstop in the event that it was going in the wrong direction.
But we really tried to keep the line management engaged in the resolution.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
qqpI**n September of '02, an issue in Salerm had arisen.
The details of it escape me.
But the point is, there was an issue going on in Salem between the nuclear equipment operators and the management of Salem operations.
We had become aware of that through the employee concerns process.
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manager, had reported that to me.
He and I sat down 2
and developed a plan of attack for how we were going 3
to make sure this issue got resolved.
Again, it was 4
putting and facilitating operations management and the 5
NEOs and getting the issue resolved.
6 During the course of that this is 7
probably in the September or October timeframe now -
8 as(
trying to facilitate that whole thing - and 9
the details of how we ended up here escape me now -
10 but basically when it was all said and done, Kim 11 Harvin either took or got assigned to take the lead 12 responsibility for facilitating this.
13 It was because she had a
personal 14 relationship - and I don't mean anything bad by that -
15 but she knew the individuals.
She knew them well.
16 She knew how to communicate.
She knew about 17 processing.
She felt like she could add value in 18 resolving that issue.
19 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
And w
20 out of it at that point.
21 So the agreement that we 22 reached was, ywould step away and monitor it, 23 ultimately being accountable for making sure it got 24 pushed through to resolution and that if he was 25 dissatisfied with the progress or whatever, he would NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 keep me informed. We would keep the senior management 2
informed.
3 It was certainly a preferred situation 4
where line management and Kim was going to 5
facilitate it would take accountability for 6
resolving this issue.
The point is, we went into 7
October. We went into November which was a refueling 8
outage.
We kept it simmering, but it took a little 9
bit of a back burner during the refueling outage.
10
)'#nd I had had several conversations 11 over the course of time that "Okay. We'll spot them 12 a little bit of time through the course of the 13 refueling outage.
But when we finish the refueling 14 outage, this has to get resolved one way or the i5 other."
The refueling outage ended, as I recall, 16 sometime in the middle of November.
17 Basically we went through the middle of 18 November through the middle of December.
It really 19 wasn't until i.n dialogue and conversations 20 we had, basically we could not tolerate that this 21 issue was not getting resolved. So from my judgement 22 basically from an issue that came up in the middle to 23 end of September through the middle of December, a 24 very important
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1 employee
- concerns, that that was completely 2
unacceptable.
3 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What was 4
Kim's involvement in that?
What did you share to the 5
group in January regarding that?
6 M
. Thank you.
Kim, again, 7
had either been assigned or volunteered to take - and 8
I believe it was the latter as opposed to the former -
9 accountability for resolving this issue.
It is my 10 estimation that she failed in that.
Again, there's 11 certain places in nuclear power operations that you 12 are willing to tolerate some measure of failure but 13 not in this particular instance.
14 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
And you 15 reported that to the assembled group in January.
16 In that conference, yes.
17 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Was there a 18 formal ECP concern log at the plant regarding this?
19 Ys 20 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
So there's 21 something I can look at.
22 Yes, I believe.
This is 23 what we termed the.
24 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
I 25 know about that.
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9 10 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR.
KEENAN:
- Yes, I believe it's the'
/
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
Good.
When you are presenting the group with your observation of Kim's performance for '02, did any of them comment on what you were bringing up?
i olIf not body language nodding in agreement, I do remember people basically agreeing with that one example as being representative of an overall job performance.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did others speak up and provide verbal input?
_I do recall there was some verbal conversation.
I don't recall anybody having anything as specific as what I had.
But again, there was a general consensus around the basic conclusion that I
had reached based on this one example.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What was the general consensus on Kim's performance for '02 among the group?
We were very specific about that.
Again, much of this transpired before I came to nuclear.
So I'm giving you second and third hand feedback.
When Kim came to nuclear in the state NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 or the condition that the organization was in, Kim actually added quite a bit of value in terms of moving the organization, moving the relationships between management and labor, and moving it forward and that basically over time, her effectiveness in that role had diminished to a
point where really on an everything else being equal basis that she really wasn't as effective today as she had been in the past.
And this was an example of that.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did others in that discussion echo that?
'<tUUU Yes.
/
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Was there any discussion at the meeting at house that it was time for Kim Harvin to move on?
Was that brought up at all?
- )What I recall was a very plain conversation about that we weren't there to discuss specifically what her next role was or what the circumstances would be but that her role there and her function doing what she was doing was that she wasn't adding any value anymore.
There was certainly an implication that it was time for her to move on.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
What I don't recall is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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i.
i-~.
1 if it was that explicitly articulated or if it was 2
just left as the implication.
3 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did(`
4 comment at all after the group said what they 5
had to say about Kim's performance?
Do you recall if 6
he responded?
7 MR.
FRIEDLANDER:
My recollection is that 8
really didn't say much in that meeting.
He may 9
have asked a question or two, a very open-ended 10
- question, to provoke some more dialogue and 11 conversation.
But*_
really didn't say much at all 12 during the meeting.
has an incredible 13 intellectual capacity.
He will remember things very 14 explicitly.
He might scribble a note or two on a 15 piece of paper.
But he really didn't lead the 16 conversation nor did he participate as a very active 17 member of the conversation.
18 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Who else was 19 there?
- 20.
It was myself, 22 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Let me move 23 to a different area.
I may come back on a couple 24 other things.
Kim Harvin's job was eliminated.
What 25 we understand is, at some point a decision was made to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 accelerate her actually physically leaving the site.
2 Do you know that that happened?
Are you aware that 3
that happened?
4 Only by hearsay.
5 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you have 6
any involvement in the decision to, I'm going to use 7
the word, accelerate her leaving the site?
Did you 8
have any involvement in making that decision?
Were 9
you part of any discussions where that decision was 10 made?
11 I
don't recall the 12 timing of it. By that what I mean is, I don't recall 13 if after it was done if I was in a meeting and it was 14 brought up and I was just a casual participant in a
15 particular setting or before.
I don't remember.
But 16 I do remember being in a meeting and that was brought 17 up.
18 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Tell me what 19 you remember about that meeting.
20 I don't even remember 21 who it was.
I don't remember the timeframe.
But I do 22 remember having a conversation specifically about her.
23 Recall what I
had mentioned earlier about my 24 understanding of the company policy and that the 25 company reserves the right, based on the circumstances NEAL R. GROSS
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1 surrounding your job and things like that, as to 2
whether or not --
3 Basically you're kept whole relative to 4
compensation and things like that.
The only real 5
issue on the table is, do you show up at your normal 6
work location or not?
I remember hearing a
7 conversation about that the decision was made with her 8
that she would not be asked to come to her normal work 9
location.
10 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Was a reason 11 provided for why that decision was made?
12 I really don't recall.
13 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Do you know 14 whose decision it was?
15
- 16No, I don't.
16 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
17 We'll take a short break off the record.
Then we'll 18 move towards finishing up.
Off the record.
19 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter went off 20 the record and went back on the record.)
21 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
We're back 22 on the record after a short break.
I just wanted to 23 touch a little bit more on the January 2003 meeting at 24
- lhouse.
Do you remember what, if
- any, 25 input V*...MMF
.(PH) provided?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1
- Relative to Kim?
/
/
2 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
- Yes, 3
specific to Kim.
4 I
don't remember 5
anything specific.
As I mentioned to you, what I do 6
remember is there was more or less agreement of the 7
conclusion that I had put out on the table.
8 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
We talked a 9
little bit earlier about some of the people in your 10 group whose positions were eliminated.
The IT people 11 were asked to come to work for the remainder of their 12 time.
13
~Ys 14 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
But there 15 were some other people who were not, correct?
16 Correct.
Again, that 17 was a functio-n of if you were turning work over to 18 somebody who needed to pick it up and continue it.
19 There was obviously a transition period that was 20 necessary.
If the work that you were doing was being 21 eliminated, then there was really no reason for you to 22 come to work.
That was, as much as anything, the 23 criteria.
24 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
As part of 25 cost cutting measures down there at the site, from NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 what I understand, there was a group.
I think it's GAP International.
Their contract was not picked up for 2003.
Can you comment on that and whether that's true or not?
That's absolutely true.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Were you part of that decision to not carry them over into 2003?
I I
Again, that wasd contract.
That was a contract that showed up in
>budget.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
SCertainly in my role and accountability as the t
I would propose and make recommendations to But that was something that was completely in his area.
I was a party to a very strong conversation about the need and the value of continuing that contract.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What was your proposal tow My proposal to{
was to get rid of it, to eliminate that contract.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
In the end, d.qp*agree that the contract would be eliminated?
ti NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What were 2
they doing down at the site?
Just maybe give me a 3
little bit about that.
mm..,
It was my understanding 5
that there were two dimensions of their contract.
(1) 6 They were doing executive coaching withp and 7
direct reports.
(2)
They were working with 8
groups inside of the organization who needed 9
facilitation.
The example that comes to mind directly 10 was that they were working with the maintenance first 11 line supervisors and the maintenance craft crews 12 themselves to facilitate conversation and dialogue and 13 problem resolution and things like that.
14 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Wasn't Kim 15 Harvin doing some of that type of work also?
Do you 16 know if she was doing that type of work also?
17 Yes, she was.
\\
/
18 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
What was the 19 basis for your recommending to 1&
that the GAP 20 International contract not be carried over into 2003?
21 It would be, simply put, 22 a cost benefit analysis.
There's no question that 23 those two elements of their contract were providing 24 value.
My recollection is that it was about $750,000 25 to a million dollars a year.
When I squared that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 2
3 4
5 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 expense with the incremental value that they were bringing in, I just didn't see it.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Were there other such groups down there doing similar work to Kim Harvin and GAP International who also had their contracts eliminated in 2003?
When you say "doing similar work," you are talking about organizational development.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
- Yes, executive coaching, facilitation, things like that.
Of f the top of my head, I don't recall any.
I think those were the two principal ones.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
We're going to take one more quick break.
I think we're going to be finishing up in a few minutes.
Off the record.
(Whereupon, the foregoing matter went off the record and went back on the record.)
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
We're back on the record.
I have one more area I want to explore with you During the course of your employrnent'at PSEG Nuclear down at the plant, did you have discussions with Kim Harvin?
Yes.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
During any 2
of those discussions, did she tell you that she had 3
any nuclear safety concerns?
4 Not in those words.
5 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
In any 6
words?
7No
/
8 SENIOR SPECIAL ACENT TEATOR:
Did she talk 9
to you about concerns she had with management?
10 Ye-11 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did she ever 12 connect any of those concerns as being nuclear safety 13 concerns?
14
) Yes.
15 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Kim Harvin 16 was informed that her position was being eliminated.
17 After that date, did you have any discussions with her 18 surrounding that?
19 m
n Yes.
20 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Go ahead.
21 Maybe we could explore that some.
22 HI1,.
Sure.
The date and the 23 timing of it escapes me at this point.
One evening 24 after she had been informed that her position was 25 being eliminated, she came by my office in a casual (I
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 manner after hours.
She informed me that her position 2
had, in fact, been eliminated.
3 My instincts suggested to me that her 4
reason for being there was, she wanted to know if I
5 knew anything about it.
She wanted to know if I had 6
any ability to influence it.
My reply to her was very 7
much in the line of, "I wasn't aware that a decision 8
had been reached to eliminate your position.
Are you 9
familiar with the company policy which would enable 10 you to look for another position?
11 Have you been able to find a position?
Is 12 there anything I can do to help you find a position?
13 Is there anything I can do to help the situation and 14 help in any way that I can?"
It was a very clinical 15 conversation.
That was it.
Then that was the last 16 time I spoke to her.
17 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
During that 18 discussion, did she say to you that she believed her 19 position had been eliminated because she had raised 20 concerns in general?
21 No.
22 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did she make 23 any statement during that discussion that she believed 24 her position had been eliminated because she raised 25 nuclear safety concerns?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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.neargross.com
1 2
3 any othei 4
issue, he 5
it?
6 7
than a t 8
truthfull 9
10 spoken to 11 12 since.
<4WhUIP No.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did you have discussions with Dr.
Harvin around this r job being eliminated and the reasons for
'No, that was no more en or 15 minute conversation.
That was y the last time I ever spoke to her.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
You haven't her since.
Oak*
-I have not spoken to her ri!
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SENIOR SPECIAL-AGENT TEATOR:
Let me ask your opinion.
Do you think that was a consideration in her position being eliminated?
Again, knowing all the circumstances, knowing the individuals involved, I can say with 100 percent certainty that her position was not eliminated because she raised nuclear safety concerns.
I would go so far to say that I don't believe that in any of the principal's minds that her concerns and her issues ever crossed the threshold of being nuclear safety concerns.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Right.
But she did have concerns and issues.
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1
- Of course.
That's what 2
keeps us all employed, dealing with those issues.
3 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Did any of 4
irect reports comment or state that they 5
would support her position being eliminated because 6
she had such concerns or issues?
7 0
N.
8 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Maybe you 9
guys didn't think they' were nuclear safety concerns.
10 But she did have concerns and issues..
11 7
- -Aain, to go back to the 12 January meeting, I
would say that the consensus 13 amongst the senior leadership team was that the issues 14 that she was charged to deal with, her effectiveness 15 in terms of dealing with tho'se issues wasn&'tyielding 16 results.
So any decisions that were made relative to 17 her continued employment had to do with her 18 effectiveness in dealing with the issues as opposed to 19 the fact that she had concerns.
20 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
21
\\
And that was at the core 22 of every conversation.
23 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Her not 24 being as effective as she used to be.
25
~1~1Ixr1~
Correct.
(K NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W, (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT.TEATOR:
Is that what 2
you are referring to as being at the "core of the 3
conversations?"
4 IV Correct, yes.
And I can 5
say that that was at the core of not only that meeting 6
and the other individuals that we dealt with at that 7
meeting but meetings that we held at least two other 8
times that I participated in earlier in the year and 9
with individuals that were dealt with earlier in the 10 year in that context as well.
11 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Not her 12 though.
13 Not her.
14 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
You are 15 talking about admin services and IT.
Is that what you 16 are talking about?
17 And even very specific 18 individuals.
Again, when we met earlier in the year, 19 we talked about performance of individuals.
We talked 20 about the effectiveness of individuals and ultimately 21 made employment decisions on other individuals.
At 22 the core of the conversation was their effectiveness.
23 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
24 Very good.
At this point, I don't believe I have any 25 follow up questions.
I may have some.
I am just NEAL R. GROSS
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1 getting started in this thing.
If I
do, I will 2
contact Jeff and go through him.
3 MR.
KEENAN:
Yes.
4 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
If there is 5
a quick follow up, maybe we could do it on the phone.
6 But we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
7 Sure.
8 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Jeff, do you 9
want to take a break?
10 MR.
KEENAN:
- Yes, let's take a break.
11 Then we will come back on the record after the break 12 and wrap it up.
13 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
We'll 14 go off the record.
15 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter went off 16 the record and went back on the record.)
17 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
We're back 18 on the record after a short break. Jeff, you have had 19 time to talk to your client.
Is there anything you 20 guys want to add to the record?
21 MR. KEENAN:
We appreciate the opportunity 22 to come today and provide this voluntary testimony.
23 SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
Okay.
24 MR.
KEENAN:
We are, of course, willing 25 and eager to cooperate in any further discussions with NEAL R. GROSS.
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2 3
4 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 you.
SENIOR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
All right.
Very good.
Athanks.
Nice meeting you.
- Jeff, thank you very much.
This meeting is concluded.
(Whereupon, the above-entitled matter concluded.)
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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'K-