ML20203A895
| ML20203A895 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Braidwood  |
| Issue date: | 07/08/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#386-072, CON-#386-72 OL, NUDOCS 8607170356 | |
| Download: ML20203A895 (282) | |
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l x
ORGL\AL O '
UNrrED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COP & MISSION
_ l IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO:
BRAIDWOOD STATION 50-456/457-OL UNITS 1 52 COM310NWEALTH EDISON C0h!PANY (EVIDENTIARY HEARING)
O LOCATION: JOLIET, ILLINOIS PAGES: 6724 - 7005 DATE: TUESDAY, JULY 8, 1986
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b ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
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444 Nerth CapitolStreet Washington, 'D.C. 20001 3607170356 860/08 PDR l
ADOCK 05000a"6 PDR NATIONWIDE COVERACE
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1 UNITED STATES OF Annnivn 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4
, X 5 :
In the Matter of: :
6 : Docket No. 50-456 COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY : 50-457 7 :
(Braidwood Station, Units 1 :
8 and 2) :
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _X 9
10 Page: 6724 -
11 College of St. Francis 12 500 North Wilcox O 13 Joliet, Illinois 60431 Tuesday, July 8, 1986 14 15 The hearing ic. the above-entitled matter convened 4
16 at 9:10 A. M.
17 '
BEFORE:
j 18 j JUDGE HERBERT GROSSMAN, Chairman 19 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board i U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 20 Washington, D. C.
/
21 JUDGE RICHARD F. COLE, Member, Atomic Safety and Licensing Board
- 22 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D. C.
23 JUDGE A. DIXON CALLIHAN, Member, 24 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission O 25 Washington, D. C.
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l 6725 1 O-1 APPEARANCES:
1 2 On behalf of the Applicant:
3 JOSEPH GALLO, ESQ.
ELENA Z. KEZELIS, ESQ.
' Isham, Lincoln & Beale
, 4 Three First National Plaza 5 Chicago, Illinois 60602 6
On behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory 7 Commission Staff:
8 ELAINE I. CHAN, ESQ.
GREGORY ALAN BERRY, ESQ.
9 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 7335 Old Georgetown Road 10 Bethesda, Maryland 20014 11 On behalf of the Intervenor:
12 ROBERT GUILD, ESQ.
13 14 -
15 16 17 18 19 4
20 21 22 23 24 O 25 .
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6726 l (2) l 1 EXHIBIT INDEX MARKED RECEIVED 2 Board Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2 6731 3
Intervenors' Exhibit No. 48 6756 4
Applicant's Exhibit No. 78 6813 6846 5
Applicant's Exhibit No. 79 6824 6846 6
Staff's Exhibit No. 11 6963 6963 7
TESTIMONY OF THERMAN L. BOWMAN l 8 DIRECT EXAMINATION 9 BY MR. GALLO: 6758 10 BOARD EXAMINATION BY JUDGE COLE: 6799 11 BOARD EXAMINATION 12 BY JU3GE CALLIHAN: 6807 13 BOARD EXAMINATION -
BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 6809 14 BOARD 3XAMINATION 15 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 6815 16 BOARD EXAMINATION BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 6819 17 BOARD EXAMINATION 18 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 6830 -
19 BOARD EMMINATICN BY JUDGE: GROSSMAN: 6839 20 BOARD EXAMINATICN 21 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 6902
, 22 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. GUILD: 6913 23 BOARD EX4MINATION 24 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 6936
() 25 CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued) 6938 BY MR. GUILD:
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1 BOARD EXAMINATION 2 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 6940 i
3 CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued.) I BY MR. GUILD 6940 4
CROSS EXAMINATION 5 BY MS. CHAN 6960 :
6 BOARD EXAMINATION BY JUDGE GROSSMAN 6974 7
CROSS EXAMINATION (Continued.)
8 BY MS. CHAN 6976 9 BOARD EXAMINATION BY JUDGE GROSSMAN 6980
~10 BOARD EXAMINATION 11 BY JUDGE COLE 6980 12 BOARD EXAMINATION l O BY JUDGE CALLIHAN 6981
, REDIRECT EXAMINATION 14 BY MR. GALLO 6983 '
15 BOARD EXAMINATION BY JUDGE GROSSMAN 6996 16 RECROSS EXAMINATION 17 BY MS. CHAN 6998 18 REDIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued.)
BY MR. GALLO 6999 19 BOARD EXAMINATION 20 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN 7000 21 RECROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. GUILD 7001 22 RECROSS EXAMINATION 23 BY MS. CHAN 7003 24
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6728 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The hearing is reconvened.
2 This is the 34th day of hearing.
3 On Friday, we -- excuse me.
4 Last Thursday, we had some discussion, an i
5 evidentiary problem, involving Zimmer, and I just wanted !
6 to clarify for the record the Board's ruling on that.
7 As I see it, we have two separate issues involving 8 Zimmer here, one being the allegation by Mr. Puckett 9 that the NRC treated Zimmer and Braidwood differently; 10 and with regard to that particular issue involving 11 Zimmer, the Board has not attempted to restrict the
~
12 evidence, even though there is some question as to how 13 relevant that is to the operating license that we're 14 considering for Braidwood, but the evidence that was 15 questioned on Thursday really related to the second 16 issue, as I see it, which is Mr. Puckett's competence.
17 The direct issue we have with regard to the 18 competence is whether or not Mr. Puckett was terminated 19 because of incompetence, as Applicant claims.
20 To a certain extent, that can be questioned -- or 21 buttressed by evidence relating to his general 22 competence; and the way Zimmer comes into that is the 23 possibility that he may have demonstrated competence or 24 incompetence at Zimmer and, in some way, that ought to
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1 competence as far as Braidwood is concerned.
2 As I understood the evidence that was proffered on 3 Thursday, it related to that second issue, with counsel 4 for Applicant suggesting that the findings -- or having 5 certain Commission findings taken into evidence, with 6 the implication that perhaps Mr. Puckett was responsible 7 for deficiencies at Zimmer and, therefore, have that as 8 some reflection on his general competence; and it was 9 with regard to that aspect of Zimmer that the Board's 10 ruling was that we can go so far in hearing about his 11 background, questions of his general competence. We're 12 not going to go back into his past and try every aspect
)
, 13 of his experience; and so when it comes to questioning 14 his general competence or his general. character, which 15 the competence is part of, he can be cross-examined, but 16 then basically the party is stuck with that kind of 17 answer that he gives in cross examination, and we're not 18 going to have a series of hearings going back into his 19 past.
20 Now, whether or not Applicant agrees with that kind 21 of ruling, I don't wish to go into now, but I just 22 wanted to distinguish between the two types of Zimmer 23 evidence that we've had before us and what the Board's 24 ruling related to.
() 25 And, as a matter of fact, the Zimmer evidence that i
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1 we heard on Thursday could not have related to the first 2 point, because it related to some very harsh rulings 3 that the Commission had with regard to Zimmer, and in 4 that way, would have tended to support Mr. Puckett's 5 position that the NRC treated Zimmer and Braidwood 6 differently; and I don't understand that Applicant's 7 counsel offered the evidence for that particular reason.
8 Okay. Now, are there any further preliminary 9 matters before we get on to the next witness?
10 Mr. Guild.
11 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman, I have 12 several.
13 First, let me bring to the Board's and parties' 14 attention a matter that was published in the weekends' 15 newspaper.
16 The Tribune carried a story on Sunday relating to 17 this case; and I distributed copies to the Board and 18 parties.
19 (Indicating.)
20 I want to draw the Board's attention particularly 21 to the acknowledgement in this article apparently by an 22 NRC representative named Strasma -- I'm looking at the 23 last paragraph in the article -- acknowledging the 24 legitimacy of a memorandum that is referred to by the
{ l
() 25 author of the article that apparently discloses that l
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i 1 electrical Quality Control Inspectors had made 2 complaints to the Nuclear Regulatory Commission as
, 3 recently as June 4th of 1986, and the substance of the i 4 complaints are reflected in the first column to the 5 left, quote, " Electrical quality control problems being 6 ignored, production given more emphasis than quality,"
- 7 and below in the last paragraph, left column, " Afraid to f 8 express concerns to the NRC."
9 Apparently the memorandum was prepared by Charles 10 E. Norelius of the Region, and from the description, 11 intended to be a notification to the Licensing Board.
12 Mr. Chairman, whether the Board and parties would
)
l 13 like an opportunity to read the article in full -- but l 14 in short, our position is that this appears to evidence 15 yet another instance of the NRC Staff failing to meet 16 its discovery obligations, now even further current
. 17 evidence of complaints by what appear to be Comstock 18 Quality Control Inspectors at Braidwood that have not 19 been disclosed to the Board and parties.
I 20 We would ask that the Chairman admonish the Staff a 21 further time to search its files and to disclose i 22 discoverable evidence, and in particular, to disclose
. 1 23 whatever evidence they have in their possession which I
24 appears to relate to the subject matter of these
() 25 complaints by Comstock Inspectors or electrical QC
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1 Inspectors of recent time.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, that relates to 3 another problem that arose last Thursday with the memo 4 that was served on Intervenors, which was not -- a copy )
a 5 of which was not given to the Board until it was 6 requested; and I think, since we had that discussion of 7 this memo, that a copy ought to be attached to the 8 transcript, and perhaps a copy of what was just handed l
9 to us, being an article in the Chicago Tribune.
10 I think maybe we'll just mark these for 11 identification as Board Exhibits 1 and 2; Board Exhibit 12 1 being the May 14, 1986, memo from Mr. Stapleton to the
{} ,
13 Region III files through Mr. Tambling, and mark as Board 14 Exhibit 2 that Chicago Tribune article, dnd this is just 15 for identification.
16 We're not including this in evidence, but we do 17 want these traveling with the transcript.
18 (The documents were thereupon marked 19 Board Exhibits Nos. 1 and 2 for i
20 identification as of July 8, 1986.)
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And I would agree with 22 Intervenors that all of the relevant evidence, except 23 expressly protected by the Commission's Policy 24 Statement, be turned over to the parties and the Board;
) 25 and it appears to me that there may be some underlying Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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6733 1 memorandum to the Board Exhibit 1, the May 14th memo.
2 I have no idea as to whether that memo just was the 3 sole written document that was produced from a 4 conference that the NRC people had or was a conclusion 5 reached after another written memo was drafted by the 6 Staff.
7 So if there is an underlying memorandum, I think 8 that ought to be produced to the parties and the Board.
9 Mr. Berry.
10 MR. BERRY:- Mr. Berry -- Mr. Chairman, in 11 response to the Board's request -- or the Board's 12 direction last -- last Thursday, the Staff has -- has 13 directed -- Staff Counsel has directed that the Region 14 undertake an additional search of its files and papers 15 and offices for documents responsive to the matters 16 involved in this litigation.
17 The Staff interprets the discoverable matters to be 18 documents relating to the allegation of Mr. Seeders, Mr.
19 Puckett and any of the 24 inspectors that came to the l
20 NRC on March 29th.
21 To that extent, the Staff would -- and will search 22 and will produce any documents that have been generated 23 since the date of its last disclosure and any documents 24 that may have been overlooked in -- in its initial i
() 25 disclosure.
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1 Documents outside of -- outside -- outside of those 2 matters -e documents outside of those matters -- and, 3 again, that's Mr. Seeders and Mr. Puckett and any of the 4
4 24 Comstock inspectors that came to the NRC in March of
, 5 1985 -- the Staff -- the Staff does not consider its 6 obligation to produce those documents in discovery.
- 7 There are -- there are mechanisms within the NRC
{ 8 that. govern the disclosure -- or the production of those .
9 documents and the Board notifications.
10 To that end, the Staff will adhere to the criteria 11 in those Board notification procedures and will produce l
12 any document,s that are material and relevant in the
)
13 matters in contention as required by that Board 14 notification.
15 With respect to Board Exhibit 2, it's my -- it's my i
16 information that -- that this Mr. Strasma, the person 17 referred to in the last paragraph of Board Exhibit 2, is l
, 18 the Public Affairs Officer.
l 19 I'm not certain what kind of information he would l 20 have or how closely he would be involved in this.
21 He's -- he is the Public -- Public Affairs Officer 22 for the NRC.
23 As far as -- it's my understanding that that 24 document was a handwritten draft that somehow was leaked l () 25 to the -- to the media.
i l
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O 1 Mr. Norelius is an individual listed and identified 2 in Paragraph 1, who is the purported author of this 3 memo, has not even seen the memo.
4 It was prepared by a subordinate for -- for his th 5 review; and apparently before it got to that -- to that 6 stage, it was -- it was leaked.
7 But, again, the Staff -- the Staf f, mindful of the 8 Board's request, will, again, search its files and 9 offices and produce any documents that are relevant to J
10 the -- to the admitted contention.
I 11 To the extent that it has documents that are --
i 12 that are outside of the admitted contention, they will 13 produce them pursuant to the Board notification 14 procedures which -- which govern this matters.
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, now, it seems to me, 16 Mr. Berry, that you have an overly-restrictive view as 17 to what constitutes relevance evidence.
18 Are you suggesting now that if there are instances 19 of alleged harassment and intimidation -- or 20 intimidation by Mr. DeWald, Mr. Seese, Mr. Seltmann or 21 Mr. Saklak, that these would not be relevant to this 22 case, if they are not instances that relate to also --
23 also to Mr. Seeders, Mr. Puckett or the 24 inspectors 24 that went to the NRC on March 29th?
() 25 MR. BERRY: Well, specific allegations t
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6736 e i O 1 against Mr. DeWald and Mr. Seeders, Mr. Seltmann.
1
- 2 The Staff -- the Staff would regard those, also,
! 3 as -- as relevant to -- to the contention.
i 4 MR. GALLO: Judge Grossman, I borrowed the --
l 5 from the Reporter Board Exhibit 1.
6 I would like to get permission to have a copy of it 7 made so that I could have it here today.
8 I've got it -- oh, you have an extra. .;
1 9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Pardon?
1
- 10 MR. GALLO: I say I borrowed Board Exhibit 1.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, I might have a copy for il you so you don't have to bother the --
12 I 13 MR. BERRY: I think I may have a copy - ,an 14 extra copy of Board Exhibit 1.
15 MR. GALLO: I think Mr. Berry has a copy.
! 16. Thank you t
17 I would only comment, with respect to Board Exhibit 18 2, that the -- that the -- it is not clear at all from l-19 the newspaper article that the safety inspectors being i 20 referred to as having safety concerns in this calendar 21 year are, in fact, Comstock inspectors.
I 22 The source -- or the employment -- the employer of 23 those inspectors is not named.
- j. 24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, if that's the case and i
O 2s the documenes are noe re1evane, ehen I euess Seaff wou1d I
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1 not be derelict in not turning them over, and we're 2 certainly not admonishing Staff for not turning over I
3 non-relevant material.
4 MR. BERRY: Your Honor, I would also just like to make one further comment.
5 6 The Staff has endeavored to produce documents that i
j 7 are relevant and responsive to the outstanding discovery l 8 request.
9 I might add, your Honor, that in some cases, the 10 Staff has gone above and beyond, you know, what would be i
! 11 required if it had adhered to an overly-restrictive view ,
12 of -- of relevance in this case; and in this particular j 13 case, I would note -- I would note that the Parkhurst 1 i
i 14 documents, which the Board -- the Board itself has ruled i '
l 15 is beyond the scope of the original contention, the J
j 16 Staff produced and its entire allegation file with 1
1 17 respect to Mrs. Parkhurst.
l 18 So to the -- it's not -- it's not to imply that l 19 there's been any suggestion by the Board or any other 20 parties that the Staff has intentionally withheld l
, 21 documents, but I would just like to note for the record i
22 that the Staff, throughout this proceeding, has tried to l
23 be responsive, again, and it has undertaken to search, l
24 again, its files to produce any documents that may have
() 25 either been overlooked or generated since its last t
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! 1 production, i 2 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman.
! 3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, Mr. Guild.
i i 4 MR. GUILD: I would acknowledge, of course, i
[ 5 that the Staff did, indeed, produce the Parkhurst
- 6 documents as part of a response to a Freedom of i
I 7 Information Act request, which is also a discovery 4 8 request. .
9 It's -- I certainly want to take issue with Mr.
10 Berry's overly-narrow view of what is discoverable.
11 I would note that, just for comparison sake, while 1 .
12 Intervenors and Applicants have had a number of
! 13 discovery disputes in this case, I think, appropriately, 14 Applicant has acknowledged consistently that what's 15 discoverable with respect to the harassment contention <
16 . extends far beyond simply the individual named cases 17 that are listed in the body of the contention.
18 Of course, discovery goes beyond just what is ll 19 admissible ultimately in_ evidence to what may reasonably 1
- 20 be calculated to lead to admissible evidence; and i
l 21 Applicant has taken the position that they've disclosed r i 22 all files -- for example, Quality First complaints from
! 23 all Comstock inspectors to -- to Edison, just as an a
j 24 example. -
1
() 25 We certainly took the Staff's prior discovery i
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1 responses as representing an agreement with that general 2 scope of discovery; and if we now hear Mr. Berry state 3 that we have assumed so in error, and that, in fact, the 4 company -- the Staff has relied on a very narrow view o'f 5 discovery to justify the withholding of documents in the 6 past, we would ask that -- that the Staff be explicit in 7 acknowledging that it has, indeed, withheld documents in 8 application of such a narrow review so that the l 9 existence or non-existence of such documents and their 10 discoverability can be resolved before the Board.
11 We are operating in the dark, if you will, because 12 we've operated under the assumption that when the Staff 13 says, "Here are all responsive documents," that they 14 haven't made such a narrow exclusion of what are 15 obviously discoverable materials.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Staff is or should be 17 aware of the standard for discovery, which is all
, 18 documents which might lead to relevant evidence, and 19 under that, I think Staff should have adopted a broader 20 view than apparently has been expressed this morning; 21 and I suggest that Staff turn over whatever there is any 22 doubt about, with regard to evidence, that might lead to 23 relevant evidence.
24 So we're in the dark, too, and we're just talking
() 25 generalities here, because we don't know any specifics.
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1 So I guess that exhausts the topic right now, and 2 we might as well go on to the next.
3 JUDGE CALLIHAN: I have one question.
4 Mr. Berry, is NRC employee Strasma with the Region 5 or in Washington?
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Region III PR.
7 MR. BERRY: He's with the Region.
8 JUDGE CALLIHAN: He's with the Region.
9 Thank you.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The next preliminary matter, 11 Mr. Guild?
12 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir.
13 I wanted to bring to the Board and parties' 14 attention Intervenors' position as of today that we are 15 receding from our request that the Board require the 16 attendance and testimony of Mr. Charles Well, W-E-I-L.
17 He was the second of two NRC Staff representatives 18 that have been the subject of a request by Intervenors 19 to require the issuance of subpoenaes.
! A review of the record, since we recessed the end 20 I
21 of last week, has led us to the view that Mr. Weil's I
22 testimony simply is not required by Intervenors at this 23 time to make our case.
24 We would note that on Thursday, Mr. Puckett
, () 25 responded to a number of questions from Mr. Berry Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 i (312) 232-0262 i
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! l regarding the accuracy of a memorandum that bears Mr.
2 Weil's name.
3 We're satisfied with Mr. Puckett's testimony in 4 that regard.
5 Of course, if the Staff desires to call Mr. Weil 6 itself to support its position, obviously we would have 7 no objection to doing that; but at this time we do not 8 intend to seek Mr. Weil's testimony any further, and we 9 wanted to notify the Board and parties of that 10 determination at this time.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's fine.
i 12 Any further preliminary matters?
13 MR. BERRY: Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.
i 14 The Staff would request leave from the Board to --
15 to call Mr. Weil.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, Staff can call Mr. Weil, 17 if it so desires, yes.
18 MR. BERRY: Mr. --
- 19 MR. GUILD
- I -- I'm sorry. Go ahead.
! 20 MR. BERRY: Mr. Chairman, on June 23, 1986, 21 the Intervenors filed a motion to admit a Late-Filed
}
22 Contention regarding the overstress of structural l 23 columns, and the Applicant responded to -- to that i
24 contention shortly thereafter.
() 25 The Staff has reviewed Applicant's and --
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1 Applicant's response, and it's in general agreement with 2 that, and we would not intend to file a written -- a 3 written response to that unless the Board would direct; 4 but were we to file a written response, we would 5 generally echo and endorse the position adopted by --
6 taken by the Applicants and their response to the 7 Intervenors' Late-Filed Contention.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's fine.
9 Then the Board will not require an additional 10 response, and we will act on the two documents that have l'1 so far been submitted.
{} 12 13 Anything further?
MR. GUILD: One further matter, Mr. Chairman.
i 14 At this time, in light of the sort of pending 15 status of the matter that was brought to the Board's 16 attention, I believe, on the 23rd of June -- and that 17 had to do with a memorandum that came to Intervenors' 18 attention regarding -- ultimately leading to the Board 19 get:ing a briefing from OI -- I would be as bleak as 20 that at this point -- we would like to pursue that a bit 21 further at this time.
22 We would ask today that a copy of that letter be 23 bound into the transcript, not as evidence, but I wish ,
i 24 to take a position for the record with respect to the l
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1 document, and at this time we would like that document 2 to be a part of the public record in this proceeding.
3 If the Chairman needs another copy of it, I've got 4 several additional ones.
5 (Indicating.)
6 Excuse me, Judge, if I can.
7 The memo, of course, is an August 2, 1983, 8 memorandum, "
Subject:
Quality Control Allegations at 9 Braidwood."
10 I won't read the -- I won't read the memorandum i 11 into the record, but would state that it's the 12 Intervenors' intention at this time that the document be 13 treated as a part of the public record in this 14 proceeding.
15 It's our view, Mr. Chairman, that the references to 16 allegations in the memorandum provide a basis for 17 pursuing the factual issue in this case, which we 18 believe is squarely within the parameters of the 19 existing QC Inspector harassment contention, and I'd 20 like to state that position for the record, and perhaps 21 invite some discussion of that point at this time so --
22 so that we can all be of -- at least understand what our 23 position, what Intervenors' position, is.
I 24 It's not our intention at this time to seek to have
() 25 admitted any additional contention.
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l 1 We, of course, have a pending motion, that was 2 filed on the 25th of June, seeking the disclosure from 3 the Staff of any other discoverable documents relating
- 4 to this matter.
5 I can't speak to what may be contained in those 6 documents and whether they may form the basis for some J
~
7 additional contention.
8 But as to --
i 9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I think --
10 MR. GUILD: Yes.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- Mr. Guild, that you do not
, 12 want to excise any names from this document for the 13 public record, but you wish to have the document in toto 14 released to the public as part of the documents in this 15 case?
l 16 MR. GUILD: We do, Mr. Chairman.
17 Of course, the document will be public in the sense I
18 that we have not -- we received it and we have not
. 19 maintained it in any protected category;'but, yes, we do
, 20 want the particulars contained in the document to be a l 21 matter of record in this proceeding; and invite the -- a
- 22 discussion about that subject, if it's -- if the Chair 23 believes it's appropriate at this time.
24 Our intention is to pursue, independent of the i
O 25 groceedine, our inveseisation of these faces, and to the
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6745 i 1 extent that they disclose further facts that we believe i
2 are relevant, we intend to offer those facts for the 3
- 3 record.
l 4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, as you know, Applicant
) 5 has already begun pursuing this, so you are certainly 6 free to do that.
- 7 MR. GUILD
- Yes.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Berry?
9 MR. BERRY: Mr. Chairman, the Staff would 10 object to the -- the receipt of this document --
11 unexpurgated copy of this document.
12 The Staff would request that the identity of -- of 3
13 the person involved here be deleted from the public --
I 14 the public copy of the transcript for the same reasons i 15 that the Staff expressed on June 23rd when this matter 16 first arose, i
j 17 We would make that request for the record.
l
- 18 Mr. Chairman, if the Board would -- if the Board
- 19 would like to hear the Staff's view, I guess, regarding 20 the litigability of this matter, the Staff would i
21 maintain that this matter is in the -- in the nature of i
22 a new contention.
- 23 It's beyond the scope of the original contention, 24 inasmuch as it does not relate to Quality Control
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1 the Staff has regarded the -- the contention is 2 harassment and intimidation against Comstock Quality 3 Control Inspectors, so for that reason, we would regard 4 this to be outside of the scope of the original 5 contention and -- and in the nature of a new contention, 6 which would have to meet the -- the late filed -- the 7 five factors test governing -- regarding Late-Filed 8 Contentions.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, again, Mr. Berry, you 10 center on the instances of harassment against particular 11 QC Inspectors or allegations of that harassment, but not
! 32 on the managerial staff, to which this seems to relate, 13 and, again, that's a somewhat restrictive view of the 14 scope of the proceeding.
15 MR. BERRY: Well, that's -- with the i
16 exception of this proceeding, and this proceeding --
17 this contention; and that is the position that the Staff 18 has maintained from the beginning of this. To my 19 knowledge, the Staff position hasn't changed.
20 Mr. Chairman --
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, did you have any 22 position on the confidentiality of this particular 23 document?
24 MR. GALLO: Well, as I understand the state
() 25 of the record, the document was released through BPI, Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 and as far as I can see, under the regular legal 2 standards, it's a public document.
3 Any confidentiality has essentially been 4 compromised; but being an easygoing fellow, I have no 5 objection to'the Staff's position.
i 6 MR. BERRY. Mr. Chairman, before you rule, I 7 would make one other comment.
8 This -- this subject is -- is still under .
. 9 investigation by the Office of Investigations.
10 I understand that office has expressed a strong -
1 11 preference that the Board not disclose the identity of 12 ,
the alleger in this case.
- 13 Now, while we're aware that the Intervenor has
- 14 obtained a copy of this document, I would only suggest 15 to the Board that -- that, as part of -- as part of the 4 16 Commission, that it, to the extent that it can, should
- 17 honor -- honor that request from the Office of 18 Investigations to maintain the confidentiality of this 19 alleger pending -- certainly pending -- pending the 20 Board's further in-camera review of -- of this matter 21 and until this investigation is completed.
, 22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, it is a very difficult 23 question for the Board to determine whether there would 24 be any harm to the alleger to have his name published at f
i
() 25 this point.
j I
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1 He's apparently well out of the area where any 2 publicity would be given to this particular allegation; 3 and Intervenors are free, as is any other party in the 4 proceeding, to publicize his name.
5 So it doesn't appear as though anything we do would i 6 be effective, and there is a temptation to go on the
! 7 side of the angels and not cause him any more problems, I
8 if publishing his name would do so; but as a purely
! 9 legal matter, it doesn't seem like we have any basis for, 10 doing that.
i 11 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, we're in somewhat 12 of a quandry, because, of course, we don't want to be 13 accused of sleeping on our rights, and it's our full 14 intention to pursue this matter.
15 We're hampered from what we think is a full and 16 complete discussion of this matter.
17 We ate sort of playing cat and mouse here and sort l
18 of dancing about the point, because I don't want to, you 19 know, appear to transgress the Staff's repeated desire l
l 20 that this matter be -- that the pretense of secrecy be 1
l 21 maintained.
I 22 There is no secrecy here. The matter is a public 23 document. It's been widely circelated among -- well, 24 it's been circulated from Intervenots, and I assume, i
() 25 from the presence of others in the roc, when it was ,
i Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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O I first discussed, Applicant person'nel have freely 2 circulated, not maintained its confidentiality.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Maybc we'll take the easy j 4 way out. ,
5 Right now it's not being proffered for any(
6 evidentiary purpose, and the easy way out, really, is 7 not to have it included in the' transcript, and I think i
j 8 maybe we'll do that until we hear further from OI.
9 MR. GUILD: Let.me just raise onelother 1
j 10 problem that we face, and that's a procedural; one.
i j 11 I now hear the Staff saying, as, yo know, I 1
12 wouldn't be surprised to hear them saying, oftsourse, j 13 "It's not within the parameters of the' existing 14 contention." _
j 15 We seek a Board determination on that question,
)
! 16 frankly, because if the determination is adverse to our i
l 17 position, then we'11'take the next step, which is the 18 rather cumbersome and we think superfluous, unnecessary, 19 unwarranted step of filing more papeIs'inithis case.
i l 20 I don't want to be heard by the,mac' Staff, you
- a i I 21 know, next week or two weeks down th0 road to say, "You l
l 22 should have filed your' Late-Filed Contention before you i
l 23 did, and your position that it was within the parameters i
{ 24 of the existing contention was ill-advised and you are !
O 2s noe entie1ed to re1y on ehae position.- 1 i ,
I .
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1 So I guess, Judge, I'm sort of trying to not offend 2 the Staff's position, which, I think, is one that is 3 strictly artful. At this time they are an adversary and 4 they are going to try to fight the admission of this !
5 matter one way or another.
6 The only exclusion I can come up with, if the Board 7 insists at this point maintaining this as a confidential 8 matter, the Board go in camera now and entertain 9 argument on the point that we have just raised, and that 10 's, i the subject is within the scope of the existing 11 contention, so at least we'll have a determination on 12 that score.
{}
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No, I don't think we ought 14 to do that.
15 I think we ought to encourage you to file a further l
16 paper on that, for the main reason, I think, to protect 17 yourself, because whatever we decide here is not the 18 final word, and we don't care to reassure you about not 19 being found out of time, because the Commission may well 1
20 decide that you slept on your rights by depending on the 21 Licensing Board, and I don't want to put you in that 22 position, because I don't think we can support the fact i 23 that we have the last say on the matter, so I think you 24 ought to file your pleadings.
( 25 MR. GUILD: Perhaps I could just ask this, Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 then -- and I don't want to put the Board in this 2 position, but since it's the adversary parties that are 3 putting us in this position and not the Board -- that 4 is, the Staff and the company joining the Staff -- they 5 insist on that that document be maintained in sort of a 6 pseudoprotected status -- I would ask whether the Staff 7 and the company agree that, pending a determination by ,
8 this Bo,ard as to its disclosability, the briefing from 9 OI and decision under the policy statement, that I s 10 Staff -- that the Intervenors are free to -- to rely on
- 11. having brought the matter to the Board's attention and
[2 await a decision from the Board under the policy
)
13 statement, and if the Staff and the company will -- will 14 so stipulate, then we'll aimply rely on our present 15 position.
6 16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. And I'll go as far as 17 to say that the Board thinks that, as far as the Board 18 is concerned, that would be a preferable course, but 19 that we can't assure Intervenor, with regard to the 20 final position of the Commission, that that will be 21 determined to be so.
22 So now you would like to get on record what the 23 Staff's position is?
24 I think, Mr. Berry, you ought to indicate whether
() 25 you will assure Intervenor at least with regard to a
Ronntag Reporting Service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 Staff's position.
2 MR. BERRY: As I understand it, the 3 Intervenor is asking the Staff -- is requesting the 4 Staff as to whether we would oppose a Late-Filed 5 Contention on this matter on one of the grounds, the 6 good -- good cause, you know, by not having filed it 7 before -- before now, not until after the Board's 8 in-camera session; and if that is the request, yes, you 9 know, the Staff would not -- would not oppose, on a good-10 cause -- on a lack of good cause grounds, the filing of 11 a -- of the contention pending the Board's further 12 examination, review, of this matter.
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's fine.
14 And that's what the Board is saying also, that we 15 would see as good cause the delay between the time this 16 document was turned over to Intervenor and the present 17 time, until OI has made its determination.
18 Mr. Gallo, do you want to speak to that?
19 MR. GALLO: Yes, your Honor.
20 First of all, I would -- I want to support the 21 Board's already ruling.
22 I want to state it for the record, that Mr. Guild 23 be required to file an additional pleading with respect 24 to any argument he wants to advance with respect to the
() 25 document that he's identified from OI in lieu of asking l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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(:) .
, 1 essentially for a declarative judgment from the Board at
! 2 this time.
3 On the question of stipulating as to whether or not 4 Applicant would advance an argument contesting an '
5 Intervenor attempt to make this an issue in the future ,
6 on the basis of lack of good cause for delay, I cannot 1
7 enter into that stipulation on behalf of my client for 8 this reason:
9 No one in this proceeding has any control over OI, 10 and while the Board, I'm sure, will use its good offices 11 and its best efforts to seek to expedite OI, those g 12 efforts in the past, it has been my experience, have 13 been marginally successful.
14 They do their own bidding and answer to very few i 15 people, if any, and I cannot have my client's rights 16 depend on the time schedule that OI may see fit with 17 respect to completing this investigation.
18 Because of the open-ended nature of that sort of 19 thing, I just can't stipulate as requested by counsel 20 for the Intervenors.
21 (Indicating.)
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. I guess you know where 23 everyone stands on this, Mr. Guild.
24 MR. BERRY: Just one further clarification,
() 25 Mr. Chairman.
l I
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1 As the Staff understands it, the Board has advised 2 the Intervenor to move with all deliberate speed in 3 filing its papers to 8 protect itself, and the Staff does 4 agree with that, that the Board -- with the Board's, you 5 know, suggestion; and it is on that basis that -- that 6 the Staff indicated that we will not oppose Intervenors' 7 #iling on the late-cause grounds -- on the good-cause 8 yrounds for the delay of the time lapse between the time 9 they received the information on June 23rd and the time 10 they filed their new contention; and the Staff would 11 enpect that that contention -- you know, that Late-Filed 12 Contention be filed seasonably.
13 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman', at this time we 14 would move the document that we've hended up to the 15 Reporter be bound into the record as a basis for what I 16 now move be admitted as a new Late-Filed Contention.
17 I will seek leave from the Chairman to seasonably 18 file supporting memoranda in support of that position; 19 but as of today, we do so move that the Corcoran matter, 20 relating to the former Quality Control Manager at L. K.
21 Comstock Company, his dismissal and the matters that are 22 contained in the August 2, 1983, nemorandum from Staff 23 files be admitted as a new contention.
24 It's an alternate motion, because our previous
() 25 position that we stated this morning is that those Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 matters are within the scope of the existing contention, 2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. So we'll deny that as 3 of the moment, since there's no evidentiary ground for 4 admitting this into the transcript; but it's already 5 noted on the record what you are doing with regard to 6 it, and you certainly have that document, as does each 7 of the parties and the Board.
8 So now we'll go on to any further matters, if there 9 are any.
10 Mr. Berry.
11 MR. BERRY: Just one point, your Honor.
( 12 I'm sorry to belabor this.
13 The Staff would just move to strike the reference 14 to the identity of the individual subject of 15 Intervenors' pr. offered new contention.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, there are no grounds 17 to strike that name, really; and if you will get Mr.
! 18 Guild's agreement to delete that name and have an i
- 19 in-camera page of the transcript, the Board would 20 certainly approve that, but it's really up to Mr. Guild 21 to do that, so you can seek some agreement during the 22 next recess.
23 Any further matters before we get to the next 24 witness?
() 25 MR. GALLO: Excuse me.
Ronntag Renorting Marvice. Ltd.
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l 1 Judge Grossman, what is the status, then, of the 2 proffered document?
3 Is it an Intervenor exhibit, is it nothing?
, 4 It's not going to be bound into the transcript; is 5 that correct.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No, it is not.
7 Mr. Gallo, I guess you can call your next witness.
8 MR. GALLO: I feel somewhat inadequate, your 9 Honor, for nr.t having any preliminary matters.
10 MR. GUILD: Before Mr. Gallo does that, just 11 in -- this is getting to the point of being silly, I 12 appreciate, and I beg the indulgence of all concerned, 13 but I would ask that the document that's been handed up 14 be marked and received as an in-camera document.
15 I don't want the record to be at all oblique on the 16 fact that Intervenors are awake, alert and are trying 17 our best to p,rotect our rights in the face of clear 18 indications from all parties that they are going to try 19 to -- to find us sleeping on all and every point.
/
20 So I would ask that this August 2, 1983, document 21 be received as an in-camera pleading.
22 It is in support of the motion that we just made 23 for the record.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Why don't we identify
() 25 it with an Intervenor number, Intervenors' Exhibit 48.
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1 (The documend was thereupon marked j 2 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 48 for 3 identification as of July 8, 1986.)
4 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir.
5 Thank you.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And we will accept this as 7 an in-camera document to travel along with the 8 transcript.
9 MR. GUILD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
' i 10 That's all.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And I take it you have 12 handed the Reporter a copy?,
{}
13 MR. GUILD: I have.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
15 Let's call our next witness, then, Mr. Gallo.
16 MR. GALLO: Thank you, your Honor.
17 Is Mr. Bowman here?
18 THE WITNESS: Right here?
19 (Indicating.)
20 MR. GALLO: Yes, right there.
21 Judge Grossman, I call at this time Mr. Therman L.
22 Bowman. l 23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Bowman, would you please 24 stand, sir, and raise your right hand.
() 25 (The witness was thereupon duly sworn.)
Ronnhaa Recorhina Mervice. Ltd.
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6758 O t 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Please be seated.
2 Mr. Gallo.
3 MR. GALLO: Mr. Bowman, my name is Joe Gallo.
4 I'm one of the attorneys for Commonwealth Edison 5 Company.
6 To my left is Mr. Guild. He represents the 7 Intervenors in this case. .
8 To the far right, except for individual in the --
9 in the middle, the two other individuals are counsel for 10 the NRC Staff, and this is the Licensing Board in front 11 of me.
12 (Indicating.)
~) ,
13 We all will be answering -- or asking, rather, 14 questions of you today.
15 I will go first, Mr. Guild will go second, and then 16 the Staff and then the Board will ask questions.
17 The questions I will be asking today are ones, in 18 some instances, that you have already answered and have 19 been asked in your deposition, but the deposition is not 20 in evidence in this case, so you will have to bear with 21 me, and to the extent the -- the questions are 22 repetitious, you will just have to give answers again.
23 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
24 THERMAN L. BOWMAN
() 25 called as a witness by the Applicant herein, having been Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
2 DIRECT EXAMINATION 3 BY MR. GALLO:
4 Q Would you state your full name and business address for 5 the record?
6 A Therman L. Bowman. My business address would be the 7 Braidwood Nuclear Station just outside Braidwood, 8 Illin'ois. ,
9 My home address --
10 Q That's okay. Go ahead.
11 A My home address is 286 West Bergera Road, Braidwood.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Off the record.
)
13 (There followed a discussion outside the 14 record.)
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Back on the record.
16 BY MR. GALLO:
17 Q I understand, Mr. Bowman, that there's been some change 18 in -- in contractors at the site with respect to the one
. 19 that is now your employer.
20 Could you explain that?
21 Is it true that there's been a changeover; that ;
22 BESTCO is no longer your employer? I
~
23 A That's true.
24 Q And who's your new employer?
() 25 A MCIS. I believe it's Multi-Service, something along i
gonntag neporting service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 !
(312) 232-0262 l
6760 1 those lines.
2 Q Let's try that again.
3 MC what? i 4 A MCIS. It's an abbreviation.
5 'Q MCIS.
6 Do you know what that stands for?
7 A Multi-Craft Inspection Service, I believe it is.
8 Q Multi-Craft Inspection Service.
9 And is it your understanding that this new 10 organization took over for BESTCO?'
11 A It's my understanding, yes.
12 Q And you consider them your employer?
13 A Yes, I do.
14 Q Are -- are you -- do you still work at Braidwood as a QC 15 Inspector?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q Level II Inspector?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q And do you do inspections of Comstock electrical work?
20 A Yes, I do.
21 Q Well, has there been any change in your work duties e
22 other than by virtue of the fact that this new company 23 has taken over for BESTCO?
24 A No, sir.
() 25 Q All right.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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Mr. Chairman, excuse me. I 1 MR. GUILD:
2 I don't mean to interrupt Mr. Gallo's examination 3 unduly, but this appears to be a fact that has developed 4 since Mr. Bowman's deposition was taken and has not been 5 previously disclosed by the Applicant to Intervenors.
6 And I might just ask that if -- if Mr. Gallo would 1
7 clear up a number of other matters, it might save 8 pursuit on cross examination.
9 It may be somewhat unorthodox, but I'd certainly 10 like to understand what the nature of this change was 11 and whether it's something that should require some 12 additional preparation on Intervenors' part before we 13 endeavor to cross examination in the dark, if you will; 14 when it happened, for example, and the -- and what the 15 scope of the change is.
16 MR. GALLO': Yes, I have no objection to try 17 to elicit those answers.
18 I don't know to -- to what extent the witness has 19 knowledge of these facts, but we can find out.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine. Why don't you do it 21 briefly. ;
22 BY MR. GALLO:
23 0 Can you tell me when this changeover occurred?
24 A I believe it was the 27th of June.
() 25 Q The 27th of June?
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. 1 A I believe it was.
2 I could be mistaken about that.
3 (Indica ting . )
4 Q Do you -- do you have an understanding as to the reason 5 for the changeover?
6 A It would be a rumor type of thing.
7 I believe it was a financial decision by 8 Commonwealth Edison, as BESTCO was charging them too 9 much money or what they assumed or thought was too much 10 money, ani MCIS, which I understand is a subsidiary of 11 General Electric, made a lower bid to do the same -- to 12 fulfill the same obligations that BESTCO previously had.
13 (Indicating.)
14 Q Do you -- are you -- are you still represented by the 15 same union?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 MR. GALLO: All right. Your Honor, I think i 18 that --
4 19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's fine.
20 MR. GUILD: That's helpful.
21 I appreciate it.
22 BY MR. GALLO:
23 Q Mr. Bowman, did you work for -- tyell, we've established 24 that you now work for MCIS. ;
() 25 And prior to that time, you worked for BESTCO; is Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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()
1 that correct?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q And prior to working for BESTCO, did you work for L. K.
4 Comstock Company?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 0 When did you join Comstock?
7 A As -- it was December of 1983.
8 Q Who was your employer prior to joining Comstock?
9 A At the time I was in Louisiana and I worked for various I
t 10 contractors in the chemical and petrochemical industries 11 in that area.
12 Immediately prior to that, I worked for Graver
{}
13 Energy Systems at the River Bend nuclear power plant.
14 Q All right.
15 I think you indicated that you worked in Louisiana 16 for various petrochemical companies?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q How long a period of time was that?
19 A Oh, approximately a year-and-a-half.
20 Q All right.
21 That would be a year-and-a-half prior to your 22 taking the job at Comstock?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q What were your -- were your duties QC related when you
() 25 worked at that -- during that time?
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1 A In the petrochemical industries?
2 Q Yes, yes.
3 A No, sir. I was usually just a welder for those 4 companies.
5 0 You were a welder?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 Q And prior to working for the petrochemical companies, 8 you worked at the River Bend nuclear station?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 0 What were your duties there?
11 A I was a -- what could be called a pusher, which is a
~
12 type of foreman over a boilermaker crew that was putting
{ together the containment liner for the River Bend 13 14 Station.
15 Q Did that activity require welding?
16 A I was a certified welder there, but I did not do any 17 welding per se on the actual structure itself.
i 18 (Indicating . )
19 Q And what did the craft people do that worked for you?
20 A They assembled, welded and helped perform most of the 21 quality control functions for that nuclear site in the 22 word -- in the way that I am saying.
23 They assisted the QC people, like in transporting 24 equipment and helping them set up, and then fulfill
() 25 whatever functions the QC was doing at the time.
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(
1 1 Q Well I'm confused now. )
2 Did they -- were -- the people that worked for you 3 and you yourself, were you -- did you assist quality 4 control --
5 A Yes, sir.
6 0 -- in some fashion?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q You weren't actually craft, then?
9 A I was sort of a liaison between QC ma'nagement and the 1
10 craft at the same time.
11 (Indica ting. )
12 Q I see.
13 And what were your duties exactly in connection 14 with performing this liaison work?
15 A It was my responsibility to assemble, through a standard -
16 construction guide that had been prepared by our quality 17 and engineering group -- assemble, weld together, 18 through various hold points for the QC people, and when 19 the welding was done, you know, notify the quality 20 control that the work had been completed and make sure 21 that all preparations for QC were done before they got 22 there.
23 (Indicating.) ,
24 Because when they did arrive, it was our job to
() 25 make sure that they had adequate light, electrical !
l Ronntag Reporting Service. Ltd.
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1 power, and if they needed a fellow to brush up 2 something -- you know, to remove rust, because it was a l 3 damp area down there -- and in general, make sure that 4 their jobs were done expeditiously as possible or as 5 efficiently as possible.
6 Q In your last answer, you indicated that one of the first 7 functions was to set up and weld components or elements 8 of the containment liner.
9 Is that a correct understanding?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q Now, how does that differ from what craft would do?
12 A I would give craft the instruction of which plates to 13 use. If you can into any problems, if I couldn't solve 14 them from an engineering viewpoint, it would be my
- 15 responsibility to get ahold of the engineers for more 16 information or for their opinion on how to handle a 17 particular problem.
18 Q Yes.
19 But weren't you and your people essentially doing 20 the work in the first instance?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 0 So you were essentially the same type of people as what 23 is called craft at Braidwood?
24 A They were craftsmen, and I was a boilermaker in the
() 25 union, but it was my responsibility to interface between Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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l 6767 1 the two.
2 Q All right.
! 3 So the people that worked for you were craftsmen?
l 4 A Yes, sir. ,
1 5 Q And you had this liaison job?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 0 I see.
8 And after the craftsmen did the work, then you 9 facilitated QC inspection --
10 A Yes, sir.
1 11 Q -- to the extent you could?
{} 12 13 A Yes, sir.
How long did you work at River Bend?
Q 14 A Two-and-a-half years, sir.
15 Q Tw o-and-a-half years.
16 Did you have any welding experience prior to that 17 time?
18 A Yes, sir. I've been certified on two other nuclear 19 sites.
20 I've passed the Arkansas bell hole welding test for 21 Shell Oil Company.
22 Q The Arkansas what kind of test?
23 A Bell hole. It's open butt Heliarc and stick test for 24 X-ray and various other petrochemical industries. It
() 25 was done under the ASME code.
Ronntag Renorting Service, Ltd.
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O 1 And I have a year in junior college studying 2 welding metallurgy, and I've been welding approximately 3 20 years.
4 Q You mentioned two other nuclear plants that you worked 5 at.
6 A Yes, sir.
7 0 What were those?
8 A They were the Nine Mile in New York City -- I mean, 9 Buffalo, up there by Buffalo, and there was -- I worked 10 on the components for River Bend up in Chicago before 11 they were delivered to the River Bend site.
12 (Indicating.)
13 0 + mat was the name of the contractor in Chicago for those 14 components?
15 A That was for Graver Engineering Systems.
16 Q I see.
17 What were your duties at that time?
18 A At that time -- excuse me -- in Chicago I was just a 19 certified welder doing a modification of the base 20 plates.
21 In New York, I was a certified welder as -- but I 22 wasn't employed in that capacity. I was used as an 23 engineering, I guess you could say, assistant, because I 24 was using the three otalights and transits to set the
() 25 reactor base, containment base, and s' pud rings.
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
6759 C) 1 Q When you make reference to New York, you mean working on 2 Nine Mile?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 0 Which is a nuclear station in' New York?
5 A Yes, sir, it is.
6 0 Is it fair to say that the -- that Braidwood is the 7 first job you've had where you've had direct quality 8 control responsibilities?
9 A I'll take that in its most literal meaning.
10 Yes, sir.
11 Q Well, if you would like to explain that, feel free.
fg 12. I don't want you to be held to too literal an U
13 interpretation of my question.
14 A Where I've actually done and signed for the QC I 15 inspections, yes, sir.
16 Before that, I would assign QC Inspectors the 17 things to do, the mag particle, PTL, things like this, 18 from a standardized procedure.
, i 19 It would be my responsibility, before the 20 inspectors reached that point, to assure myself that the il test that was going to be performed would be performed 22 successfully.
23 Q Did you perform these duties when you were a pusher or 24 foreman --
() 25 A Yes, sir.
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1 Q -- at River Bend?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q Try not to anticipate my question, because the Reporter 4 is going to have a difficult time getting both of us if 5 we overlap, I believe, is the term in the trade.
6 A Okay.
7 Q What certifications have you qualified for at -- at 8 Braidwood as an inspector of Comstock work?
9 A Welding, configurations, conduit, cable pull and 10 terminations.
11 Q You say " welding."
12 Is that individual weld inspections?
13 A Yes, sir. -
14 Q Do you remember when you were certified in that ares?
15 A Early 1984; but I don't remember the exact date.
16 Q And what are the inspection duties for configuration?
17 A Inspection duties would include a review of the material 18 installed in the field; its location; its proper 19 internal dimensions, along with its proper location in 20 the field to the current drawings.
21 Q And when did you become certified as an inspector in 22 that area?
23 A That was also in early 1984. I don't remember the exact 24 date.
() 25 Q What are the duties of an inspector for cable pool --
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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6771 C) .
1 cable pull?
2 A The cable pull inspectors inspect the unreeling of all 3 safety-related cable; the installation of said cable to 4 the specifications noted in the pull card, assuring 5 themselves that it goes through all the proper node 6 numbers, through the proper conduits; assuring l
themselves that the bend radiuses have not been 7
'8 violated; and that the crew uses the proper pulling 9 compounds or the proper pulling set-up if they need to 10 do a power pull.
11 That's a fairly rare occurrence, though.
12 (Indicating.)
O 13 Q When were you certified in that area?
14 A 1985. I don't remember the month, sir.-
15 0 I believe you testified at your deposition that it was 16 in early 1985.
17 A Okay.
18 Q Does that refresh your memory?
19 A Not real well; but it does appear correct, it was early ,
i 20 1985, sir.
1 21 Q What are the inspection duties for conduit?
22 A To assure that the conduit was installed in a proper 23 locations for the -- per the current drawing; its upper 24 elevations are correct; the diameter of the conduit
, () 25 installed is correct; and that all the fittings in the i
Sonntaa Reoortina Service, Ltd.
~
Geneva, Illinois 60134 ,
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6772 O 1 1
- 1 connections installed are proper; the grounding is 2 correct.
3 Q Do you recall when you were certified in that area?
l 4 A No, sir, I do not.
5 It was in 19 -- late 1905, I believe it was.
6 Q Late '85?
7 A Yes, sir.
'8 Q Finally, what are the inspection duties for 9 terminations?
l 10 A Terminations are usually done on safety-related 11 terminations. They are to assure that the proper cable 12 are being terminated to the -- in the correct locations 4
13 per the latest drawings and the proper 14 connections -- i.e., the lugs or any butt splices or l
l 15 pigtail splices -- are done properly.
I 16 (Indicating. )
i 17 Q Again, when were you certified in that area?
18 A I believe it was late 1985, also, sir. l l
19 Q Do you know a gentleman by the name of Mr. Saklak?
20 A Yes, sir, I do.
21 Q Was he ever your supervisor? i l
22 A For a short time, yes, he was.
23 0 Do you remember when he was your supervisor?
i l
24 A I believe it was late 1984, early 1985.
() 25 I'm probably the worst person in the world for Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 ,
(312) 232-0262 l
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6773 1 dates.
2 O Well, everyone has that -- that problem.
3 What -- what were you doing at the time that he was 4 your supervisor? What were your work duties?
5 A I believe I was doing conduit or -- yeah, I believe I 6 was doing conduit inspections, but I may have been doing 7 welding or configurations.
8 (Indicating.)
9 Q And what were Mr. Saklak's duties, as you understood 10 them, as a sapervisor, with respect to your activities?
11 A I believe he was working just as a normal supervisor.
12 He did move out into the auxiliary building, 13 although why I'm not really sure.
14 I believe it was -- excuse me -- to run a special 15 group of inspectors that were doing conduit 16 installations, and I believe I was doing the hanger 17 configurations for him.
18 Q All right.
4 19 Now, I'm talking now at the time that he was your 20 supervisor.
21 Did you work in the auxiliary building then? )
l 22 A Yes.
23 Q I see. 1 24 A I was in his office or the little area that they had.
r
( 25 Q Do you recall how long a period of time he was your 1
sonntag Reporting service Ltd. j l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
6774 1 supervisor?
2 A I think it was approximately four to six weeks.
3 Q Do you recall -- strike that.
4 Who was your supervisor, if you can remember, aftec 5 Mr. Saklak?
6 A I believe it was Mr. Ken Worthington.
7 Q Mr. Worthington.
8 Can you tell me what the reason for the change in 9 supervisor was?
10 A Probably because Mr. Saklak and I didn't get along, but
, 11 it could have been that he didn't require my services
~
12 anymore.
O 13 0 Were you the only individual working for Saklak at that 14 time?
15 A No, sir.
16 Q There were other inspectors as well?
17 A Yes, sir.
I 18 0 Do you have -- can you give me some estimate as to how 19 many?
20 A 12. I believe it would be 12 inspectors.
41 Q Was it likely that the supervision responsibilities 22 changed because of your personal relationship with Mr.
23 Saklak?
24 A That could be a good possibility.
() 25 Q And just -- he would change the -- just because of your Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
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6775 3
(V 1 relationship with Mr. Saklak, there might ha've been a 2 change in assignment?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q Now, did you have occasion to observe Mr. Saklak's 5 behavior towards QC Inspectors generally while you 6 worked -- you worked at Comstock?
7 A I believe so, sir, yes.
8 Q How would you describe his behavior?
9 A Aggressive, browbeating, I think, would be a fair 10 assessment of him.
11 Q All right.
12 Are you aware of an incident that took place in
-)
13 August of 1984 between Mr. Saklak and Mr. John Seeders?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 Q Did you witness that incident?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 0 Can you -- where did it occur?
18 A It occurred in the second story of the Comstock building 19 in the room farthest to the south, which is a large room 20 with one entrance and no windows.
21 Q And you were in that room?
22 A Yes, sir, I was.
23 Q Was Mr. Seeders in the room as well?
24 A Yes, sir, he was.
(m_)25 Q And can you explain -- describe what occurred in terms Ronntag Rencrting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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l 1 of when Mr. Saklak , arrived?
2 A I was in the room. I believe I was talking to either 3 Mr. Worthington or Mr. Larry Seese. I don't remember 4 which individual I was talking to, nor do I remember 5 what I was talking to them about, other than it was 6 probably a problem of some kind, when Mr. Saklak came 7 into the room and shouted down to Mr. Seeders, "Are you 8 done yet," or something along those lines, and Mr.
9 Seeders responded that he was working at it, and I had 10 observed Mr. Seeders dealing with some what appeared to 11 be five-by-eight hard cards, and he was adding numbers gg 12 or writing to them or adding information to them in some
%)
13 manner, and Mr. Seeders then -- excuse me -- Mr. Saklak 14 then said to Mr. Seeders, "If you want to play games, I 15 can play games with you," or, "I can play games, too,"
16 something to that nature, and Mr. Seeders says, "I'm 17 working at it, I'm working at it," and he had been --
18 prior to Mr. Saklak coming in, he had been doing 19 something with these cards -- I don't know what -- and 20 then Mr. Saklak responded, "If you want to play games, 21 come with me," and Mr. Seeders then followed him out of 22 the room, and that's the extent of my knowledge of that 23 incident.
24 (Indicating.)
() 25 Q Did -- was there -- did Mr. Saklak raise his voice in Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 this exchange with Mr. Seeders?
2 A Mr. Saklak always has a loud, booming voice, but it 3 appeared at that time that he was a little bit louder 4 than the normal.
5 Q Did they get into -- how long would you say this 6 exchange took?
7 Was it a couple --
8 A Perhaps 15 to 20 seconds at the most.
, 9 Q And they went off to Mr. Saklak's office; is that 10 correct?
- 11 A I don't know where they went after they left the room, 12 sir.
13 Q But they left the room?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 Q All right.
16 Did you learn later from either Mr. Saklak or Mr.
17 Seeders what was the disposition of the matter?
18 A Mr. Seeders informed me that Mr. Saklak was very 19 unsatisfied with the work that he was doing; but other i 20 than Mr. Seeders' letter that he showed me, disagreeing 21 and objecting with Mr. Saklak's attitude toward himself l
22 and his work, I don't know where -- or I don't remember
! 23 the -- any other incidents'that Mr. Seeders might have 24 related to me as far as this incident goes.
() 25 (Indicating.)
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1 Q The letter you referred to, is that the letter that Mr.
2 Seeders wrote to Mr. DeWald?
3 A I believe so.
4 Q Dated August 17, 1984?
5 A Is it up here?
6 I believe that's the date, yes, sir.
7 Q What are those papers in front of you?
8 A That's a good question.
9 It appears to be a memo, AWS memo.
10 Q Let me ask you a question -- a different question. -
11 Did you bring them or were they here all along?
12 A They were here when I got here.
13 MR. GALLO: Can we go off the record.a moment, 14 your Honor?
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Sure.
i 16 (There followed a discussion outside the 17 record.)
18 MR. GALLO: Can we go back on the record, 19 your Honor?
, 20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine.
21 BY MR. GALLO:
22 Q Are you aware of an incident between Mr. Saklak and Mr.
23 Franco Rolan that occurred in November of 19847 24 .A No, sir, not -- not to my immediate knowledge right now.
l
() 25 (Indicating.)
l l
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6779 l
O 1 1 Q Okay.
l 2' When I use the term " incident," that's the same as f
3, an argument or an altercation or a confrontation.
4 jA I had h'eard people talking of this, but I didn't witness f
5 l anything about it, no.
6 Q You didn't witness it?
7 A No.
8 Q You had heard shop talk?
9 i A Just shop talk, yes, sir.
10 Q\ And what had you heard?
4 11 A That they had, you know, had a shouting match, I guess, 12 or something along those~1ines.
13 That would be about the extent of my knowledge of 14 it.
15 (Indicating.)
16 Q Finally, are you aware of an incident between Mr. Saklak 17 and Mr. Snyder that occurred in March of 1985?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Did you witness that event?
20 A No, sir, I did not.
21 Q And how did you become aware of the incident?
22 A Through the other inspectors. They related the incident 23 to me.
24 Q What was your understanding?
h 25 A I understood that Mr. Saklak threatened Mr. Snyder Ronntag Danorting Service, Ltd.
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1 with -- I'm going to quote, and I don't know how 2 accurate this is -- apparently Mr. Saklak told Mr.
3 Snyder that if beatings were legal, you would be dead, 4 and that's all I know.
5 (Indicating.)
6 Q Are you aware of any other altercations or incidents 7 between Mr. Saklak and any other QC Inspector that ,
8 occurred --
9 A No, sir.
10 Q -- during the time that you worked there?
11 A No, sir, I am not.
r 12 Q Now, everybody's been waiting to hear just what the 13 nature of your relationship was with Mr. Saklak.
14 You've already indicated that the two of you didn't 15 get along well.
16 Did you ever get into an argument or confrontation 17 with Mr. Saklak while he was your supervisor?
18 A No, sir.
19 Q Can you explain the basis for your -- strike that.
20 Did he ever yell at you or abuse you in any way 21 during the time he was your supervisor?
22 A No, sir.
23 Q How about -- I won't restrict my question to the time he 24 was your supervisor. -
() 25 How about during the time he was working at the l
t Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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6781
/~3 '
\J l l site and you were a QC Inspector?
2 A Mr. Saklak and I never had words, you know, 3 argumentative or disagreement anywhere similar to the 4 previous incidences that I've testified on.
5 Q All right.
6 Can you explain the basis, then, for your testimony 7 that you -- you and he didn't get along?
8 A Mr. Saklak assumed that I should be doing certain 9 things, and, you know, following the work that he had 10 laid out for me to do.
11 However, if I ran across something that would 12 divert my attention, such as if I saw something that was 13 wrong, I would go ahead and address it, either on an ICR 14 or whatever appropriate document, and Mr. Saklak wanted 15 me to give this information to another group, to have 16 them come out and deal with whatever I thought the 17 problem was, and I assumed that it would be much more 18 ,
expedient for myself to deal with it, as I was. aware of 19 it right then, and memos may have get lost or someone 20 may -- no telling shat could have happened.
21 Mr. Saklak and I had a discussion on whether or not 22 I should be continuing that practice, and I told him I 23 would continue that practice and that I would address 24 any problem I run into immediately. I wouldn't transfer
() 25 the responsibility to anyone else.
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1 (Indicating.)
2 0 Now, if I understand your testimony, you disagreed with 3 Saklak's point of view on this matter?
4 A Yes, sir, I did.
5 Q And you told him that?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 0 How did he react?
8 A He laughed and snick'ered and he says, "Okay."
9 Q Hedidn'texplodewithrage-landyellortrytoabuseyou 10 because you were not following his suggestion or 11 instructions?
12 A No, sir.
13 Q Well, how firm were you in your position with respect to 14 advancing it to Mr. Saklak?
15 A I think I made myself clear to him that I wasn't going 16 to back down.
17 Q And he just laughed, is that what you are telling me, in 18 response to that?
19 A Well, he didn't sort of -- he wasn't laughing at me or 20 my opinion. I think he was just laughing -- you know, 21 smiling at the situation, and he realized that I wasn't 22 going to give, and he had other means of dealing with 23 it, so I imagine I was -- I believe, if my memory serves 24 me correctly, I was shortly afterwards transferred out
() 25 of his unit. ,
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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6783
) i 1 Q So do you know whether or not Mr. Saklak accepted your 2 position as to how you were going.to operate?
3 A I'm quite sure that he accepted that I was going to 4 operate that way, and that's exactly what I told him.
5 (Indicating.)
6 Q Did Mr. Saklak ever harass or intimidate you while he 7 was your supervisor?
8 A No, sir.
9 Q Do you know that -- let me strike that.
10 Your last testimony that I recall was that - that 11 you were transferred out or he was transferred out.
12 ,
can you clarify that for me?
4 13 A I believe I was transferred out of his group into -- I 14 believe it was at the time going into welding and 15 configuration backlog.
16 Q Would that, then, be Mr. Worthington's group?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q Do you know whether or not Mr. Saklak sought to have you 19 transferred because he disagreed with your point of view 20 that we have just been discussing?
21 A I don't know that as a fact, sir, no.
22 There may have been there was a demand for people 23 with my certifications in another area.
24 (Indicating.)
() 25 Q Was there any shop talk that you became aware of that l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 you were being transferred because Saklak didn't'like 2 you or didn't like your point of view?
3 A No, sir.
4 Q In your judgment, did Mr. Saklak have an attitude 5 problem in dealing with QC inspectors?
6 A I vculd say that he had an attitude problem, yes.
7 Q Could you amplify and explain, since you agreed with me, 8 what do you intend by that?
9 A I believe Mr. Saklak had a very high opinion of his own 10 thoughts and how things should be done, and he tried to 11 irapose this opinion upon the inspectors.
12 Q Did this extend to the interpretation of procedures th'at 13 were being used by the inspectors?
14 A That was Mr. Saklak's responsibility as a supervisor.
15 If there was any question about the procedures, 16 that is -- one of his responsibilities is to interpret 17 it and help clarify it for the individual inspector.
18 Q What was your experience in terms of observing Mr.
19 Saklak discharging that responsibility?
20 A I believe, in the terminations and the -- I believe it 21 was cable and conduit installations, he was 22 knowledgeable in this.
23 Q Did you ever get into a disagreement with him over an 24 interpretation of a procedure that you were using for
() 25 inspection purposes?
sonntag ne;. Ing service r.t d .
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
6785 1 A No, sir.
2 Q Did you ever relate your -- your experience with Mr.
3 Saklak -- that is, your discussion with him where you 4 essentially -- I think you used the words you stood up 5 to him and you wouldn't back down.
6 Did you ever relate that experience to any of the 7 other inspectors?
8 A No, sir.
9 Q Did you ever suggest that the way to deal with Saklak 10 was to stand up to him, let him know that you wouldn't 11 back down and you wouldn't have any problems?
12 A I did suggest that to other inspectors, yes.
13 Q You did suggest that to other inspectors?
14 A Yes.
15 Q Do you recall who you might have suggested that to?
16 A No, sir.
17 It was kind of, perhaps, like in a lunch-hour 18 atmosphere where there would be several fellows sitting, 19 and Mr. Saklak might be the subject of discussion, and I 20 would just comment on perhaps an incident or a 21 situation.
22 (Indica ting . )
23 Q Do you recall any reaction to your suggestion?
I 24 A No, sir, I don't recall any reaction.
() 25 0 Okay.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Do you recall if Mr. Snyder was in that group --
2 A No, sir.
3 0 -- at the time?
4 A No, sir.
5 Mr. Snyder and I, I don't think, have ever sat 6 together during lunch hour and discussed anything about 7 Mr. Saklak or another one of the others' work.
I 8 Q And Mr. Holley had been in the group?
I 9 A Mr. Holley may have been in that group, yes, sir.
I 10 Q' How about Mr. Gorman?
11 A Mr. Gorman, yes, he may have been in the group.
12 Q Do you recall how he might have reacted to your
[}
13 suggestion that you stand up to Saklak and you won't 14 have too many problems, at least based on your 15 experience?
16 A Could you run that -- ask.that question again?
17 Q Yes.
18 What I'm asking is is -- well, if you recall how 19 Mr. Gorman might have reacted to your suggestion of 20 handling Mr. Saklak based on your experience.
21 A I hate to comment on that, because Mr. Gorman may say 22 one thing and -- and do something not quite as extremely 23 as what he might suggest.
24 (Indicating.)
() 25 0 Well, I think you have to answer my question as best you Ronntag Renorting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 1 --_ - - . _ . - -
6787
( )' ,
1 can.
2 I mean, Mr. Gorman has testified in this 3 proceeding; and you just have to give the best answer i
4 you can.
I i
1 5 A Okay. Mr. Gorman may suggest a physical act that would
- 6 be impossible or things along those -- that line, but 7 Mr. Gorman may -- or I'd say, on my judgment of the man, J
8 may go to, say, Quality First, NRC or to upper i
- 9 management with some other. thing; but Mr. Gorman, I i
j 10 believe, is quite capable -- capable of confronting Mr. j
- 11 Saklak, settling his own differences of opinion.
12 (Indicating.)
13 Q What are you telling me?
14 I mean, my question was how -- what was your
! 15 recollection of how Mr. Gorman reacted to your advice,
- 16 and --
17 A I'm not sure that Mr. Gorman was a member of the lunch l 18 group that I'm speaking of.
19 If my memory serves me, I'm not sure that he was a 20 member of that same group., although Mr. Gorman and Mr.
21 Holley and I did eat lunch together-fairly often.
i l 22 Q Well, do you recall telling Mr. Gorman about your i experience with Saklak at some other -- on some other 23 i 24 occasion?
() 25 A It's very likely that I did, and --
I i
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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6788 1 Q Can you recall any reaction from Gorman at all to that 2 explanation?
i 3 A Not enough to say, "Well, yeah, he said this" - "this l
4 guy" - "you know, somebody really needs to do that," or ;
5 he may have said, "Well, the way to handle him is to go 6 to someone over his head."
7 Q You just don't recall? .
8 A I just don't recall, no, sir.
9 Q All right.
10 What do the words " harassment" and " intimidation" 11 mean to you?
12 A Harassment would be giving minor inconsequential duties,
{}
13 repetitive duties, something out of the ordinary for the 14 average inspector without good reason. Intimidation
! 15 would be threats -- threats of loss of overtime, loss of 16 job or physical harm of some nature.
17 Q All right.
18 Those are two pretty good definitions.
19 Using your understanding -- your definitions of 20 those two words, have you ever been harassed or 21 intimidated by Mr. DeWald?
22 A No, sir.
23 Q Threatened in any way?
24 A Not by Mr. DeWald, no.
( 25 0 Yes, I'm limiting my questions -- we'll get to others Annntag Renorting Service _. Ltd.
j Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
6789 1 later, but we're starting with Mr. DeWald.
2 How about abused by Mr. DeWald in any way?
3 A No, sir.
4 Q How about discriminated against in some fashion by Mr.
i 5 DeWald?
6 A No, sir.
7 Q Have you ever been harassed or intimidated by Mr.
8 Seltmann?
9 A No, sir.
10 Q Again, have you ever been discriminated against by Mr.
11 Seltmann in some way in your work duties?
! 12 A No, sir.
13 0 Were you ever threatened or abused in any way?
14 A No, sir.
i 15 Have you ever been harassed or intimidated by Mr. Seese?
Q 16 A No, sir.
17 Q Again, have you perhaps been discriminated against by 4
18 Mr. Seese in some fashion in your work?
19 A No, sir.
20 Q Either threatened or abused?
4 21 A No, sir.
22 Q Do you know a man by the name of Marino, Mr. Marino?
f 23 A Mr. Bob Marino?
24 Q Yes.
l
() 25 A I've met the man, yes, sir.
I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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U 1 Q Have you interacted with him during the discharge of I 2 your working duties?
3 A No, sir, I don't believe I have.
4 0 Can you tell us the occasion when you -- occasion or 5 occasions that you might have met him?
6 A Mr. Marino would come to the station, and the inspectors 7 would be gathered, and he would make an announcement or 8 he would give us a pep talk of some nature. That's 9 about it.
10 (Indicating.)
11 Q Have you ever been harassed or intimidated by Mr.
12 Marino?
13 A No, sir.
14 Q Have you ever been threatened or ab'used by Mr. Marino?
15 A No, sir.
16 Q Discriminated against in some fashion?
17 A Not discriminated, no, sir.
18 Q You hesitated.
19 Is there some other adjective that I have omitted 20 that you would like to tell us about?
21 A No, sir.
22 Q Now, at these -- at these pep talks that Marino gave 23 that you attended, did you ever understand or come to ,
1 24 the understanding that the pep talks were a kind of 25 threat or veiled attempt to get you to do something that Rnnnhag Qponrhing .9ervice, Ltd..
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 you shouldn't -- that you didn't want to do?
2 A I never viewed Mr. Marino's talks in that manner, no, 3 sir.
4 (Indica ting . )
5 Q Now, Mr. Bowman,~you were one of the QC Inspectors that 6 went to the NRC resident inspectors and complained on 7 March 29, 1985; is that correct?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q And did you go to the meeting that was held at 10 lunchtime --
11 A Yes, sir.
12 0, -- with the 24 or so other inspectors?
O 13 A Yes, sir.
14 MR. GALLO: Judge Grossman, I'm going to show 15 the witness the in-camera Exhibit 42A, and I believe
! 16 that there will be some names mentioned that 17 subsequently will have to be deleted from the 18 transcript.
J 19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
j 20 So the Reporter is on notice.
21 THE NOTARY: Yes, sir.
22 BY MR. G ALLO:
23 Q I'm going to show you, Mr. Bowman, what has been marked ,
l
! 24 as Intervenors' Exhibit 42A, and you'll see, when I show
() 25 it to you, that there are some brackets around various Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 names, and the reason brackets are around these names is 2 that some confidentiality has been given with respect to 3 the identification of these -- of these people.
4 (Indicating.)
5 First of all, I want to show you the -- the exhibit 6 itself and give you an opportunity to look at it.
7 If you turn to Page 3, you will see your name 8 mentioned.
9 I'm going to ask you if you have ever seen the 10 memorandum before.
11 Take your time.
12 Have you seen this memorandum before, Mr. Bowman?
13 A To be honest with you, I don't recall seeing it, no, 14 sir.
15 Q Do you -- you may have received a copy from the NRC.
16 Do you recall perhaps getting it from the NRC in 17 what would be the late spring of, summer of, '857 18 A It's very possible that I did receive it.
19 Q But you just don't recall at this point?
20 A No, sir, I just don't recall.
l 21 Q Now, the memorandum summarizes some of the inspector --
- 22 strike that.
23 The memorandum summarizes some of th~e comments made i
24 by the inspectors during that meeting at noon on March
() 25 29th that you attended.
Ronntag Reporting Service. Ltd.
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()
1 And having looked to Page 3, your name is 2 mentioned. ,
3 And I guess, first of all, I should -- I should ask 4 at this point whether or not you yourself wish to have j ,
5 your name deleted from the transcript. -
I Let me explain to you the process. ;
6 7 I will ask questions, and the questions will 8 indicate what you said at the meeting; and you can 9 have -- if you want, you can have your name deleted so 10 that the -- the public transcript will just read blank, 11 et cetera. The private transcript, what we call the 12 in-camera transcript, will have your name on it, but the 13 Board and the parties will just have that.
14 A Yes, sir, I would like that.
15 Q You would like that?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 MR. GALLO: I have no objection to that, if 18 that's what the witness likes.
19 I assume that's acceptable.
20 JhDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. I just wonder
! whether, with this explanation on the record, there's 21 22 any purpose in doing that; but go ahead. That's fine.
l 23 THE WITNESS: That was also my thought.
24 MR. GALLO: Well, I --
() 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I think maybe we ought to --
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1 MR. GALLO: Do you want to go back and strike 2 my comments from the record?
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, we're not going to 4 strike it, but we'll put those comments in camera, too.
5 MR. GALLO: All right, fair enough.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And we'll just have to get 7 the transcript and see where we start.
8 MR. GALLO: All right.
9 BY MR. GALLO:
1 10 Q All 'right.
11 Now, turning to Page 3 of Intervenors' 42A:
12 First of all, when you were at the meeting at noon, 13 do you recall-discussing the metal reduction problem at 14 the meeting?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q Did you explain to the NRC resident inspectors what this 17 problem was?
18 A Yes, sir, I believe I did.
19 Q And do you recall which inspectors were in attendance?
20 A Not all of them, sir, no, sir.
21 Q Was Mr. McGregor there?
l 22 A Yes, sir. l 23 Q How about Mr. Schulz? i 24 A Yes, sir.
() 25 Q He was there. All right.
Monntag Renorting Service Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 1 -_ , . - - - _- .
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1 Now, this memorandum -- that is, Intervenors' 2 Exhibit 42A -- says the following:
3 " Bowman observed a base metal reduction problem in 4 a structural weld."
5 Did you tell that to the NRC Ins'pectors at the 6 meeting?
7 A Yes, sir, I did.
8 Q That's an accurate statement?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 0 The next sentence says, " Bowman told his Lead, John 11 Walters, and Walters told Bowman to stay within the 12 scope of his job and not worry about base metal 13 reduction."
14 Now, did you tell that to the inspectors?
15 A To the NRC?
16 Q To the NRC Inspectors.
17 A Yes, sir, I did.
18 0 Is that an accurate characterization of what you told 19 the inspectors?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q You told them that Walters told you to stay within the 22 scope of his job -- of your job, rather?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q And you told the NRC Inspectors that Walters indicated
() 25 to you to not worry about base metal reduction?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. )
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V 1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Walters told you that?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q All right.
5 The memorandum continues, " Bowman also told Darryl 6 Landers."
7 Is that true?
j 8 A Yes, sir.
9 0 " Landers informed Bowman to keep up his production or he 10 would lose his overtime."
11 Now, did you tell that to the inspectors?
Yes, sir.
{) 12 13 A
Q And is that what Landers told you?.
14 A Yes, sir. It's a quote word for word.
- 15 0 That's a quote from Landers?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q All right.
~
18 A However, I would like to make a little clarification 19 here.
20 Excuse me. Mr. Landers, I think, was making a --
21 at the time, a very poor joke of it I didn't like.
22 Those are an exact quote from Landers, but I don't 23 believe that he would back that up with any kind of 24 action.
i
() 25 Q Let me see if I understand.
Monntag Renorting Service, Ltd.
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1 1 At the time Landers told you to keep up your ;
2 production or -- or you would lose overtime, did you j 3 think he was serious?
4 A No, sir.
5 Q What made you think it was a joke?
6 A Because he was kind of smiling at me when he said it.
7 Q I see. All right.
8 Did you convey that understanding to the NRC 9 Inspectors on the 29th?
10 A I don't recall if I did or not.
11 I may have told them that he was smiling when he 12 said it, but I don't know if I made myself clear enough 13 to them that he may not have been serious about it.
1 14 At the time I was upset with Mr. Walters' attitude, 15 and I wasn't exactly sure what Mr. Landers' attitude 16 might have been at the time, too, so rather than just
- 17 let the incident drop, I decided it needed to be 18 addressed.
19 (Indicating.)
20 Q All right. ,
21 Now, when you say at the time you were angry with 22 the -- with Mr. Walters' attitude, you meant when 23 Walters told you to essentially ignore this problem?
24 That's what you meant at the time?
l
( ) 25 A Yes, sir.
l i
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 1 Q And you weren't sure of Landers' attitude at that same 4
j 2 time?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q Well, when did you come -- become -- when did you come l
l 5 to the judgment that maybe he wasn't serious and he was ;
6 making -- he was joking?
I 7 A I talked with Mr. Landers about the incident '
l 8 approximately two months ago, and --
i
? 9 Q How long ago?
1 j 10 A Approximately two months ago.
11 Q Two months ago. I see, all right.
l
! 12 Go ahead.
j
- 13 A -- and he said, you know, " Tinker" -- that's what I'm i
1 14 called at work - "there is no way I'd have" - "I would i
i 15 have ever used something like that against you or anyone i
16 else or for retaliation or anything. If you just want i 17 to write something up, you write something up. "
i 18 He said he meant it as a joke, and he was smiling l
19 when he said it at the time; and -- well, at the time I 20 was angry and upset, and there was a lot of friction l
j 21 between management and the inspectors, and Mr. Landers f 22 was part of the management, and I just didn't know how i
! 23 to take it, so --
l 24 0 Was this friction over the union activities you referred I
() 25 to?
Sonntag Reporting Service. Ltd.
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1 A This is friction over the inspection activities.
2 0 The inspection activities.
3 All right. Let's -- let's go -- let's go back now 4 to the time that the comments were made.
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q All right.
7 You became angry with Walters. There was no doubt 8 in your mind what he meant?
9 A None.
10 0 All right.
7 11 Now, with -- with Landers, he had a smile on his 12 face when he told you what he said.
13 Is it your testimony that you weren't sure of his
> 14 position or what he intended or that you interpreted it i
15 as being serious?
16 A It is my testimony that I was not sure of his attitude.
17 Q At the time?
18 A At the time that he made those comments.
19 Q Okay.
20 And then when you talked to the NRC Inspectors on 21 March 29, 1985, did you convey to them this uncertainty 22 as to Landers' attitude?
23 A Not -- I did not convey my uncertainty to the extent
- 24 that I am doing now.
() 25 One of the reasons I did not is because of the time l
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
! Geneva, Illinois 60134
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1 factor. We only had one-half-hour. I believe I did 2 mention that he was smiling when he said it.
3 They could have taken that for the same attitude 4 that Mr. Walters had.
5 (Indicating.
6 Q All right.
7 You didn't elaborate?
8 A No, sir.
9 Q You don't recall elaborating beyond that?
10 A No, sir.
11 MR. GALLO: I'll leave this here for the time 12 being.
13 (Indicating.)
14 I have some more questions on this subject.
15 BOARD EXAMINATION 16 BY JUDGE COLE:
17 0 While you are on that point, what was the role of Mr.
18 Landers? What was his position at this time?
19 A If my memory serves me, I believe Mr. Landers was Mr.
20 Walters' supervisor.
21 JUDGE COLE: All right.
22 Thank you.
23 MR. GALLO: Yes, I was just going to ask 1
, 24 those questions.
() 25 A (Continuing.) Excuse me, excuse me. That's not Sonntag Reporting Service. Ltd.
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1 exactly accurate.
l 2 Mr. Landers was the welding supervisor at that 3 time, and this is -- was a welding problem, so I took it 4 to another supervisor.
5 (Indica ting . )
i 6 Mr. Walters and Mr. Landers may have been equal in 7 rank, so to speak.
8 (Indicating.)
9 BY MR. GALLO:
10 Q Now, was -- was Walters your Lead?
11 A Yes, sir.
'l 12 Q He was the Lead Inspector for your group?
[}
13 A Yes, sir.
14 0 And what were you inspecting at that time?
15 A I don't recall the actual components.
16 I believe it was a TS3-7439, approximately -- I 17 forget the exact location.
18 0 Was it visual weld inspection?
19 A Yes, sir. ,
20 0 Now, explain again to me what -- was Landers the next 21 supervisor up from Mr. Walters?
j 22 A I believe it would be more over than up in the corporate i
23 structure. i t
24 (Indicating.) ;
( 25 Q So it was kind of a lateral position?
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l A Yes, sir.
2 Q And he was a weld supervisor?
3 A I believe he was the welding inspection supervisor at 4 the time or he was involved with welding inspection 5 supervision.
6 That's the reason I went to him.
7 Q All right.
8 Now, explain just what the base metal reduction 9 problem is.
10 A It was a grinding base metal reduction for -- where the 11 removal of aux steel had -- the grinding that removed 12 aux steel from the web of two I-beam, which were
} ,
13 structural members, also removed the -- the metal from I
14 the web of the I-beam.
i 15 (Indicating. )
- 16 0 When you say --
, 17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Reporter, do you have a j 18 problem with the kind of steel referred to?
1 19 THE NOTARY: No, sir.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay.
l 21 BY RR. GALLO:
- 22 0 What do you mean when you say " web of the I-beam"?
23 What area is that?
24 A On a structural I-beam, you have two unequal planes.
() 25 You have a vertical plane that may extend up, for sonntag neporting service. Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
\
6803 0 .
1 example, 30 inches, and then you have two horizontal 2 planes at the top and bottom of the vertical plane.
3 These are called flanges.
4 The vertical member between the two flanges is l
1 5 called the web. l 6 (Indicating.)
I 7 Q I see.
1 8 And'there was -- part of the I-beam had been ground i
9 away by a process called grinding?
10 A Yes, sir.
! 11 Q And you -- and you had noted this -- this problem?
12 A Yes, sir.
[}
13 0 Were you inspecting those I-beams for weld acceptability 14 at the time you noted this discrepancy?
- 15 A No, sir.
16 Q What were -- what were you doing out in the field at
- 17 that point?
i 18 A I was inspecting a conduit hanger that was attached to 19 the lower flange of one of the I-beam.
l 20 Q So you were inspecting welds very close to the I-beam in i 21 question?
i
\
i 22 A Yea, sir.
i j 23 Q And you just happened to see this grinding condition?
24 A Yes, sir.
() 25 Q Now, you noted this discrepancy.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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. V 1 Dot Comstock procedures at that-time -- strike 2 that.
3 Do you recall approximately when this happened?
i 4 Take your time. Start with the year.
What year do you think it happened?
~
5 4 6 A 1984.
l 7 0 1984.
8 All right.
9 A Of course, I could be wrong on that. I'm terrible for i 10 dates.
11 Q All right.
12 That's -- I have something here that indicates, j 13 which I will show you later, that it was December --
l 14 approximately in December of 1984.
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, any time you want 16 to take a break. !
17 MR. GALLO: We could do that right now.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We'll take 10 -
19 minutes.
20 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which i 21 the hearing was resumed as follows:)
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We're back in session.
j 23 Mr. Gallo.
24 BY MR. GALLO:
25 Q I believe I asked you just prior to the recess, Mr.
! Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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() I 1 Bowman, as to whether or not existing procedures that i 2 were in force at Comstock at the time you discovered i
3 this -- this metal.-- base metal reduction problem 4 indicated that you should flag the problem by issuing an 5 NCR.
i 6 A I believe they did it, sir.
7 Q Did you -- after you discovered this problem, did you 8 write an NCR?
9 A Eventually, yes, sir.
l 10 Q What did -- what was the first thing you did after you la 11 discovered the problem? ,'
4 i 12 A I reported the condition -- well, I was researching the
)
13 current drawings to determine the identification of the
(
i 14 auxiliary steel that existed.
15 If it was an auxiliary steel supporting electrical l 16 components, then it would be our responsibility.
17 However, there were other contractors who use ,
f
! 18 auxiliary steel out there, and it could have been l 19 something that another contractor had removed.
l 20 0 What did your research disclose?
I 21 A It eventually disclosed that the aux' steel belonged to 3
22 L. K. C.
. 23 Q So that the -- is it your testimony that the auxiliary i 24 steel had been installed by Comstock?
! () 25 A Yes, sir.
i 1
i '
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1 Q Well, after you completed your research, what did you do 2 then?
3 A After I completed the research, I wrote the NCR.
4 Q Well, let's back up to the -- to the time that you saw I 5 the -- the base metal reduction problem.
6 And did you have occasion to discuss it with Mr.
7 Walters?
r
- 8 A Yes, sir.
9 Mr. Walters asked me what I was doing back in the lI 10 office, as he had already given me my assignment for 11 today -- for that day, and I explained the situation to 12 him, and that's when our disagreement occurred.
13 Q Well, did you -- what -- what was the reason that you 14 went back to the office?
15 Was it to seek advice from Mr. Walters?
- 16 A No, sir. It was to find out the identification of the 17 auxiliary steel.
18 Q I see.
19 And this is where the documents were for research 20 purposes; is that it?
l i 21 A Yes, sir. That would be consisting of structural 22 drawings.
23 Q Mr. Walters saw you in the office and was questioning 24 why you were there and not inspecting out in the field;
() 25 is that correct?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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O 1 A Yes, sir. l 2 0 What did he say to you at that time?
4 3 A Then he indicated that I should be out in the field 4 doing my inspections, and the -- any damages to the 5 I-beam were -- belonged to another contractor's 6 inspecting group.
7 0 I take it you explained to hin the -- the base metal I
8 reduction problem that you had observed?
9 A Yes, sir, I did; but at that time that I -- I did not
' 10 have the knowledge that they were installed by L. K. C.
11 Q All right.
12 And what did you do after Mr. Walters told you 13 y essentially that -- that you ought to stick to your own 14 work and not worry about base metal reduction problems?
15 A I wrote the location of the base metal reduction on a 16 piece of paper and I took it to Mr. Walters -- excuse 17 me -- I took it -- that information to Mr. Landers and 18 gave this information to him so that it could be l
19 addressed in that manner.
i 20 (Indicating.)
~
21 Q Did this happen all relative 1y soon after your ;
22 discussion with Mr. Walters? ;
23 A It happened immediately afterwards.
I 24 Q Immediately afterwards.
() 25 Is this when Mr. Landers -- well, strike that.
t I
gnnneng nepnreing service. tha. !
Geneva, Illinois 60134 .
(312) 232-0262 l
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1 Did you explain the situation to Mr. Landers 2 insofar as observing the base metal reduction problem?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q And how did he react at that time?
5 A I gave it to him -- I was in a hurry to get out -- back 6 to my inspections in the field. I explained it very 7 briefly to him, and gave him the paper containing the 8 location, and as I turned to leave, then he made his .
l 9 statement about the overtime.
i 10 0 This is when he grinned and you weren't sure --
11 A Yes, sir.
~
12 Q -- what he meant?
13 A Yes, sir.
14 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Excuse me.
15 Mr. Gallo, before we leave that point.
16 BOARD EXAV! NATION 17 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN:
18 Q Reduction, as you have used the term, is this a thing, a 19 physical change, or is it a chemical change?
20 A It would be a physical removal of the steel that 21 composes the web of the I-beam, sir.
22 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Thank you very much.
23 JUDGE COLE: Are you finished with that 24 point, Mr. Gallo?
( ) 25 MR. GALLO: No, I'm not.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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! 1 BY MR. GALLO:
2 Q Do you recall at your deposition explaining the --
3 essentially addressing this same question in answer to 4 questions by Ms. Kezelis?
5 A Yes, sir, I recall it.
6 Q Do you recall saying at that time, "As I was walking l
7 away, Mr. Landers looks up with a grin and says, ' Keep 8 up the good work or we will take you off of overtime'"?
9 Do you recall testifying --
l Yes, sir.
10 A 11 0 -- at the deposition that way?
12 A Yes, sir.
[} And was it that statement that created the uncertainty 13 Q 14 in your mind as to what Mr. Landers really meant?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 His, if I may use the term, body language said one 17, thing but his words implied something else.
18 (Indicating.)
19 Q How did you interpret the words, " keep up the good 20 work"?
21 A I don't believe Mr. Landers thought that I was goofing 22 off, you know, in my general inspections, you know, in 23 the work that I did, and I don't believe he had any 24 problem with the amount of work that I did or the
() 25 quality of the work.
Ronntag Reporting Earvice, Ltd.
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1 l
(
1 (Indicating.).
2 Q Had it been your experience that --
1 3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
4 I don't believe the witness answered that question 5 as to what he believed Mr. Landers meant by thit.
6 BOARD EXAMINATION 7 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
8 Q Was he doing that -- was he saying that sarcastically or 9 was he -- was that your impression or -- I just don't 10 get your -- whether fou've explained what he -- what you 11 perceived him to mean.
12 A Your Honor, I was a little bit confused at the time
[}
13 myself.
14 As I said, his body language -- you know, he was 15 smiling, and it was not an aggressive tone to his voice, 16 but the words said, " Keep up," you know, "the good work 17 or we'll take you off the overtime," so I really didn't 18 know how to take it.
19 Mr. Landers had never really had any -- excuse 20 me -- problem with my work before or --
21 Q Well, my problem is that I don't see where the conflict 22 is, what the -- whether the body language indicated he 23 was unhappy or the words indicated that he was unhappy 24 with what you were doing.
() 25 A It was just the words -- words that indicated that he Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 would be -- that he was unhappy with the situation I was 2 in now the particular moment.
3 0 So, in other words, he was saying, " Keep up the good 4 work," sarcastically? He was not unhappy with what you 5 were doing, but you took his body language -- the fact 6 that he was smiling -- to indicate that he was not 7 unhappy with what you were doing; is that --
8 A Yes, sir.
i 9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
10 MR. GALLO: All right.
s 11 BY MR. GALLO: I 12 Q Now, was -- Mr. Landers, when he made this statement, 13 did he come across to you as being sarcastic when he 14 said, " Keep up the good work or we'll take you off of 15 overtime"?
16 A It was that impression, yes.
17 Q Had it been -- had you had any experience of being 18 denied overtime, previous to that occasion, because of 19 some difficulty with Mr. Landers or other members of 20 Comstock's management?
21 A No, sir.
22 Q Did you -- you implied a threat by Mr. Landers' 23 statement; that is, that you might be taken off of ,
i 24 overtime?
() 25 A Mr. Landers implied the threat, sir.
sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Q Yes, that's right. I'll stand corrected. l 2 So there was an implied threat in this statement --
3 A Yes, sir.
4 0 -- correct?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Had you ever experienced that situation yourself, where 7 you had been taken off of overtime because of some 8 displeasure?
9 A No, sir.
10 Q Did you yourself often work overtime?
11 A Yes, sir.
Were you aware of any other inspector who perhaps was
{} 12 13 0
discriminated against in some fashion in the allocation 14 of overtime because management was unhappy with that 15 inspector's performance?
16 A Not to my direct knowledge, no, sir.
17 Q So as I understand your testimony, you went -- you went 18 to see Mr. Landers to give him the problem and suggest 19 that he do something about it; is that a fair 20 characterization?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q You returned to the field to do your inspections then?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q What happened next?
() 25 A That was in the morning that the incident occurred; and l
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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()
1 after -- when I come in for lunch, my immediate 2 supervisor above th'e Lead, Mr. Walters, came to me and 3 told me -- returned the piece of paper to me that I had 4 given to Mr. Landers and he told me then to deal with it 5 in any manner I saw fit, and if I needed to write an 6 NCR, to go ahead and do so.
7 (Indicating.)
8 Q Now, who was this individual that you are referring to?
9 Was that Mr. Worthington?
10 A Yes, sir.
q ll Q He was the next level of supervision above Walters?
r l 12 A Yes, sir.
{~)
13 0 And he came to you later that same day in the afternoon.
14 Did he have the note that you had given Landers 15 with him?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q And he gave it to you; is that correct?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q And what were his instructions again?
20 A To deal with it as I thought best, and if it was i
I 21 necessary to write an NCR --
22 Q And what did you do?
23 A I eventually wrote an NCR.
24 Q Did you write it that same day?
() 25 A I believe I did. It was either that day or the -- the I
sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 very next day.
2 Q Apart from writing the NCR, did you have occasion to 3 advise anyone else about the matter in writing at or
! 4 about the same time?
~
5 A Not that I recall, sir.
6 Q Now, let me try to refresh your memory.
7 MR. GALLO: I have here a memorandum, which I 8 would like to have marked as Applicant's Exhibit -- I'm 9 afraid I must ask for some assistance --
10 MS. KEZELIS: 78.
11 MR. GALLO: 787 12 M,S. KEZELIS: Yes.
}
13 MR. GALLO: -- Applicant's Exhibit 78.
i 14 I haven't given you a copy yet, have I?
15 (Indicating . )
16- (The document was thereupon marked 17 Applicant's Exhibit No. 78 for 18 identification as of July 8, 1986.)
19 BY MR. GALLO:
l 20 Q I'll give you a moment to look at it.
21 Mr. Bowman, is that your signature at the bottom of 22 the memorandum?
21 A Yes, sir, it is.
7.4 Q It's dated December 8, 1984?
() 25 A Yes, sir, it is.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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l Q Did you write this memorandum?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q And you addressed it to Mr. DeWald?
4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q And does it concern the base metal reduction problem 6 we've been discussing here?
7 A No, sir, it does not.
8 Q It does not.
9 What does it concern?
10 A This is a'second base metal reduction with inclusions on 11 a different elevation and a different location.
12 Q It's a -- it's -- so it's not the one involving Mr.
13 Walters; it's another one?
14 A Yes, sir, this is a different incident.
15 Q Do you recall whether the -- the incident involving Mr.
16 Walters came before this one or after?
17 A No, sir, I don't recall, but I -- I believe it was 18 before this, but I don't recall accurately, no, sir.
19 Q It's your belief that the base metal reduction problem 20 involving Mr. Walters came before this one; is that 21 currect?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q All right.
24 Now, what was the occasion -- well, I have some
() 25 questions I want to ask on Applicant's 78, but I want to Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 return to the -- to the incident involving Mr. Walters 2 and -- and the discussion that we were having with 3 respect to your handling of the matter.
4 You had written the NCR; is that correct?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Do you recall -- and this was a Comstock NCR?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q Do you recall the dispositioning of that NCR?
9 A Not right offhand, sir, no, I don't.
10 Q Do you know whether the I-beam was repaired?
11 A Yes, sir, it was repaired.
12 Q Do you know how the repair was effected?
13 A No, sir.
14 I don't believe I closed that NCR. I think another 15 inspector closed the NCR.
16 Q But it's your understanding that it was, in fact, 17 repaired?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Did you ever have occasion to go out in the field to 20 look at it after --
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q And did you find it in the repaired state?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q Did you --
() 25 BOARD EXAMINATION Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
2 Q By the way, this memo refers to an H-beam.
3 I take it an H-beam and an I-beam are the same, 4 depending on how it's termed; is that correct?
5 The way you were describing the I-beam, it would 6 appear to me to be an H-beam.
7 But could you just elaborate on that?
8 A There are I-beam and H-beams. They vary in height of 9 the beam, in flange width; and the more closer the 10 relationship of height to flange width, that's when they 11 become H-beams.
12 (Indicating.)
{}
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay.
14 That's fine.
15 BY MR. GALLO:
16 Q Did you have occasion to learn, after the NCR had been i
i 17 written, the circumstances by which the I-beam in 18 question became damaged; that is, the base metal was 19 ground down? Did you have occasion to learn about 20 that?
i 21 A Yes, sir, I did.
22 Q Could you explain what you -- what your understanding 23 was?
24 A Mr. Al Parker, the area engineer for L. K. Comstock,
( 25 approached me and clarified why the base metal reduction 1
Ronntag Reporting Rervice Ltd.
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l 1 existed in the -- in the particular locations that I had 2 found.
3 Okay. He indicated that the aux steel had been 4 removed and put up again and then removed again due to 5 interferences with other components, and this was how 6 the base metal reduction had come about.
7 Q Was it -- did the reduction occur because of the -- the 8 reinstallation of the process or because some workmen .
9 might have been careless; do you know?
10 A I think it was just workmen's carelessness in removing 11 the angle clips to the web of the beam.
12 Q So if I understand your testimony, that despite the --
{}
13 your disagreement with Mr. Walters, action was taken to 14 address the base metal reduction problem you identified, 15 and corrective action was, in fact, taken; is that 16 correct?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q Now, did you -- I had asked you some questions earlier 19 about your definition of harassment and intimidation.
20 Did you feel, by virtue of this experience, that 21 you were harassed or intimidated by Mr. Walters? l 22 A I believe that a Quality control Inspector on any 23 nuclear site should have the ability to address anything 1 24 that he conceives -- or believes is a problem, and I
() 25 believe that Mr. Walters was trying to restrict what I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 l
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1 believe is the responsibility of my inspections.
2 Q So you think he was just dead wrong?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q All right.
5 We're -- if we accept that for the moment, did you 6 feel intimidated by his contrary view?
7 A One incident of disagreement on how things should be 8 done I don't believe constitutes harassment or 9 intimidation.
10 However, it was Mr. Landers' statement that either 11 keep up the good work or we take you off of overtime --
12 I consider that a form of harassment -- I would.
(])
13 (Indicating.)
14 Q Even though you weren't sure what he intended?
15 A In an instance like that, I believe it to be better to 16 err on the side of caution.
17 If I was wrong about Mr. Landers' intention, then I 18 was wrong.
19 Q Did you take occasion to challenga his statement later 20 that day or the next day after you had the meeting with 21 him?
22 A No, sir, I did not.
23 0 If I understand your testimony, you didn't seek 24 clarification until about a couple months ago?
25 A Yes, sir, i
Ronntag Reporting Rervice_. T.E d .
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1 Q How well did you know Landers at the time of the -- that 2 you found the base metal reduction problem? .
3 A Not very well at all, sir.
4 Q So you didn't know his habits or his disposition very 5 well; is that correct?
6 A No, sir, I did not.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
8 BOARD EXAMINATION 9 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
10 Q Did you seek clarification from Mr. Landers or did he 11 volunteer that clarification?
{} 12 13 A We just happened to meet at the 451 Quality Control Room, and we were discussing something else about the 14 hearings that are going on now, and he asked me if I did 15 go to the NRC about what he -- the statement that he 16 made to me, and I says, "Yes," and he was rather 17 surprised about it, and then he went on to explain his 18 real intent at that time.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine.
20 Thank you.
21 Mr. Gallo.
22 BY MR. GALLO: ,
23 Q Well, does that mean that he volunteered the explanation 24 or did you seek it?
() 25 A I think it was sort of like a mutual agreement. I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 volunteered to tell him that, yes, I did take his 2 statement to the NRC, and he volunteered to tell me what
) 3 his real intent was.
4 Q Subsequent to the -- to this exchange with Landers and 5 Walters and the writing of the NCR, to your knowledge, 6 did you ever experience a situation where you were 7 denied, in your opinion, improperly so, overtime?
8 A No, sir. #
9 0 While we were talking about harassment and intimidation, 10 I failed to ask about Mr. Simile.
11 Have you ever encountered him in the work place, ggg 12 Mr. Simile?
13 A If you mean in the field while doing inspections, yes, 14 sir.
15 Q Have you ever been discriminated against or abused in 16 any fashion by Mr. Simile?
17 A No, sir. -
18 Q Have you ever been harassed or intimidated by Mr.
19 Simile?
20 A No, sir.
21 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, the record should 22 reflect Mr. Simile is sitting in the hearing room behind 23 counsel table.
24 MR. GALLO: Can we go off the record a.
25 moment?
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l 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Why do you want to go off --
2 fine, we'll go off the record.
3 (There followed a discussion outside the 4 record.)
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Back on the record.
6 BY MR. GALLO:
7 Q All right.
8 Does the fact that Mr. Simile is sitting here in 9 the courtroom change your answer in any way that you 10 just gave to the questions I just asked?
11 A No, sir.
12 Q Let's return to what has been marked as Applicant's No.
{}
13 78, and that's that December 8th memo of Mr. -- from 14 you, Mr. Bowman, to Mr. DeWald.
15 Can you tell me what the occasion was that caused 16 you to write this memorandum?
17 A It's rather self-evident. It was -- I discovered base 18 metal reduction with slag inclusions caused by flange 19 cutting on an I-beam. The location is indicated on the 20 memo.
21 Q Well, previously I -- with respect to the first matter 22 involving Mr. Walters, as I understand it, you merely 23 wrote down the location and the nature of the problem
- 24 on a piece of paper and gave to it Mr. Landers; isn't
' 25 that correct?
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q This appears to be a more formal approach to 3 accomplishing the same objective --
4 A Yes, sir.
5 0 -- is that correct?
6 A And I think I see the direction of your line of 7 questioning, if I can elaborate as -- a little bit on 8 this.
9 Q' Go ahead.
10 A This base metal reduction was done by another 11 contractor.
12 The piece that was cut off of this beam was a knee 13 brace that was used as -- this is an estimation by the 14 engineering group -- as a brace for a tower crane or 15 some other lifting device that was temporarily installed 16 for the early construction of the building, and after 17 the crane was removed, the knee brace was also removed, 18 and this was done, apparently, with a cutting torch, 19 which resulted in the damage.
, 20 (Indicating.)
21 So this would be a dif ferent contractor, much
, 22 earlier in the stage of the construction.
23 Q And is that why you -- was it for that reason that you 24 addressed the memorandum to Mr. DeWald?
) 25 A Yes, sir.
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1 Q Do you recall what action, if any, Mr. DeWald took on i 2 this matter?
3 A It's my understanding that the -- this memorandum made 4 its way to CECO, and that CECO addressed the matter 5 through, I believe it was, Newberg.
6 Q G. K. Newberg?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 MR. GALLO: I'd like to mark for 9 identification, as Applicant's Exhibit 79, a memorandum 10 dated December 10, 1984, from Mr. DeWald to Mr.
11 Mennecke.
12 (The document was thereupon marked 13 Applicant's Exhibit No. 79 for 14 identification as of July 8,1986.)
15 MR. GALLO: Shown on the memorandum are 16 various individuals who were copied, including T.
17 Bowman.
18 BY MR. GALLO:
19 Q I ask you, Mr. Bowman, if you recall receiving this
- 20 document.
21 A Yes, sir, I do.
22 Q Do you know who Mr. Mennecke is?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q Could you tell me? Could you tell me who he is?
l () 25 A I understand he's part of QA for Commonwealth Edison. l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Q It's'your understanding he worked for Ceco?
2 A Yes, sir.
- 3 Q All right.,
! 4 Do you know whether, in this instance, an NCR was 5 written by Comstock?
6 A No, sir, I don't believe an NCR was written by Comstock 7 addressing this deficiency.
8 0 Well, was.the purpose of the DeWald to Mennecke 9 memorandum to bring it to the right contractor's 10 jurisdiction so that an NCR could be written?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q That was the purpose of this whole memorandum process?
13 A Yes, sir.
14 Q Do you know whether or not that contractor -- I guess 15 you testified it was Newberg?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q Do you know whether or not Newberg wrote an NCR?
1 18 A I do not have personal knowledge of that, no, sir.
19 Q All right.
20 Now, returning to March 29th, the noon meeting with 1
21 the NRC reEident inspectors:
22 What caused you to attend that meeting?
23 A Mr. Landers' statement.
[
24 If you want to know why the group of us got j
() 25 together, it would be~because I would think that the l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 inspectors no longer had a great deal of, let's call it, 2 respect for the upper management of L. K. Comstock, and 3 the responses that we were receiving from them on the 4 concerns that we had we thought were untimely, they l
5 weren't being done quickly enough; and then at that time 6 several individuals approached me that had witnessed the 7 incident with Mr. Walters and Mr. Landers and asked me 8 if I would like to join'them to go to the NRC and bring 9 this to a sharper focus for -- for investigation by
! 10 them.
11 Q Do you recall at your deposition you were asked a 12 question, "Did you go to the NRC simply to enhance the 13 union's bargaining position?" The answer was, "No. My 14 reason for going to the NRC, I believe Saklak, when I i 15 made the statement to Mr. Snyder" -- rather, let me 16 start again.
17 "My reason for going to the NRC, I believe Mr.
18 Saklak, when I made the statement if Mr. Snyder in this 19 case would be intimidated, he had crossed over the line l
20 of good judgment in dealing with any inspector, and it 21 was now time to deal with Mr. Saklak, and in order te 22 support the other inspectors, this is what we did."
l
! 23 Do you recall that testimony at your deposition?
24 A Yes, sir.
f () 25 0 Well, what --
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1 MR. GUILD: Do you have a reference, counsel? j 2 MR. GALLO: Yes. It's on Page 106.
3 MR. GUILD: Thank you.
, 4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Did you complete his 5 statement there, Mr. Gallo?
6 MR. GALLO: Well, there's one paragraph left.
i 7 It says, "And I agree with what we did at the time and I 8 agree with it now and for our reasons for going, l 9 irregardless of whether or not the union would have been 10 campaigning to have us unionized." That's the complete 11 answer.
12 ,
BY MR. GALLO:
, 13 Q Now, I want to understand your testimony today.
4 14 I asked you what caused you to go to the meeting at 15 noon on March 29, 1985.
16 It seems your testimony at the deposition was it 17 was the Saklak incident with Snyder and it was time to 18 deal with Saklak and get that taken care of.
19 Is that a -- is ti,at your. recollection of your 20 testimony at the deposition?
21 A My recollection is as it is '.here; but --
22 Q Are you changing your testimony today?
23 A No, sir.
24 It is --
() 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, when the witness l
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1 starts to say something, please don't cut him off.
2 A (Continuing.) I believe if we look back just a few 3 earlier pages, the discussion at that time was 4 concerning Mr. Saklak, if I recall correctly.
5 MR. GALLO: Would you like the opportunity to 6 look?
7 THE WITNESS: No, sir, that's quite all 8 right.
9 MR. GALLO: Well, I think you ought to. I 10 insist.
11 THE WITNESS: All right.
~
12 MR. GALLO: Feel free to page to any of the --
ss/ .
13 for your information, the quotation I read starts right 14 here.
15 (Indicating . )
16 THE WITNESS: Uh-huh.
17 MR. GUILD: Is there a pending question, 18 counsel? s 19 MR. GALLO: Yes.
i 20 My question is whether or not he's changing his 21 testimony today.
22 MR. GUILD: And his answer was no and he 23 explained it.
24 MR. GALLO: I don't remember.
() 25 As I recall, Judge Grossman interjected and'said I sonntaa nenortino service. Ltd.
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1 cut him off, and he's now given an opportunity to 2 explain his prior answer to the extent he desired.
3 THE WITNESS: Well, I'll endeavor to do that.
4 The incidents leading up to the inspectors going to 5 the NRC covered a period of time, well, not just weeks, 6 but two to three months.
7 It was in our opinion chat --
8 MR. GALLO: Let me interrupt you, Mr. Bowman.
9 I want to -- the question I had was whether or not 10 your testimony today is -- is different from the 11 testimony that I read you from the transcript.
12 Judge Grossman properly pointed out that I had
)
13 interrupted you; and I believe you were attempting to 14 explain, by looking at the transcript, just how that 15 quotation may have been taken out of context.
16 I'd like to limit the inquiry at this point to 17 that.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No; because he wasn't 19 answering that question at the time, Mr. Gallo, and I'd l 20 like to have him answer that original question.
21 He wasn't referring back to the transcript. Let 22 him tell what he is starting to tell now.
23 MR. GALLO: Well, I don't know what question 24 he's answering, Judge Grossman, at this point.
() 25 MR. GUILD: He's explaining, Counsel -- and I i
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1 believe that my objection that he already answered the 2 question was overruled, in effect -- and -- and the 3 Chair has asked him to explain.
4 I would like the explanation completed now.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: He's explaining why he went 6 to the NRC on March 29th.
7 Isn't that what you were answering?
8 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Please continue.
Okay.
s 10 THE WITNESS: The incident that 11 happened between Mr. Walters and Landers and myself, in 12 itself, would not cause my -- me to go to the NRC. That
)
13 had been eventually dealt with.
l 14 It was Mr. Walters' attitude, and I thought at the l 15 time Mr. Landers' attitude; and the incident that I
16 happened between Mr. Saklak and John Seeders 17 highlighted --
18 MR. GALLO: Seeders or Snyder?
19 THE WITNESS: Snyder. Excuse me.
20 -- highlighted what we thought, and I still 21 thought, still think at this time, that in that time 22 frame, the management's attitude towards us was shifting 23 away from good quality control practices, where our 24 supervisors, the people that we depend upon for
() 25 supervision and direction, were drifting away from what Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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C 1 we considered good practices; and this would be -- the 2 worst example 'of this would be the Mr. Saklak and Mr.
3 Snyder's incident.
4 (Indicating.)
5 We have a variety of incidents through a period of 6 time that I am aware of, that I was involved in, and 7 then we have Mr. Saklak and Mr. Snyder.
8 You could call that incident the straw that broke 9 the camel's back, you know.
10 We live with these things, we hear about them, 11 we're aware of them, we're aware of attitudes, and we 12 try and maintain our own integrity as inspectors in the 13 work that we do; and when we're pushed too hard or we 14 believe we're pushed too hard, then one incident will 15 finally, you know, come along, and this is as far as 16 we're going to go. You know, we have drawn the line.
17 BOARD EXAMINATION 18 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
19 Q Okay. Excuse me.
20 You mentioned a time frame, I think, and then you 21 left it in midsentence.
22 How long had this situation been going on?
23 A I would say -- from my own personal point of view, I 24 would say three months prior to the meeting with the O 25 NRc.
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! 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
2 Thank you.
J
! 3 Mr. Gallo.
4 MR. GALLO: Yes, let me take the transcript 5 back.
6 (Indicating.)
7 BY MR. GALLO: -
i 8 Q So basically the Snyder-Saklak incident was the straw 9 that broke the camel's back, and that prompted the 10 meeting --
11 A Yes, sir.
12 0 --
with the NRC?
O 13 Now, the conversation that you had with Walters and 14 Landers, did that occur -- I thought it was your 1
15 testimony that occurred prior to 1985.
16 Am I mistaken in that recollection?
! 17 A I don't believe so, sir.
18 Q It happened -- okay.
19 Well, tell me when you recollect it did happen.
20 A Well, if you want a date, I'm sorry, I can't gave it to 1
! 21 you.
22 Q Well, did it happen in '85 or '84?
23 A I Felieve it was 1984, but I could be mistaken on that.
24 I'm very bad on dates.
i i
() 25 Q Well, was it one of the incidents that you referred to Sonntag Reporting Service. Ltd.
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1 in the first three months of '85 where these -- one of 2 the examples of a -- of a situation where the QC 3 supervision was not consistent with your notion of how
! 4 they should comport themselves when dealing with the QC l
5 Inspectors? j 6 A You may be correct it was in 1985. I'm --
7 Q I'm not suggesting that. I'm asking you.
8 A I'm afraid I don't understand the question, sir.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Mr. Gallo, he said 10 approximat'ely three months before they went to the NRC.
11 That would put it at the beginning of that period, 12 either in 1984 or in 1985, so it depends on how precise 13 the witness was, I believe, with the three-month 14 estimate; is that right?
15 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
16 BY MR. GALLO:
17 Q Well, are you counting the Walters-Landers matter as one 18 of these examples that you just testified to of --
19 A Yes, sir.
20 0 -- QC management's improper attitude towards QC 21 Inspectors?
. 22 A Yes, sir.
i 23 Q Were you involved in any other situations that you would 24 characterize along the same line during that period of
() 25 time? '
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1 A My witnessing of the John Seeders-Mr. Saklak incident.
2 Q But that's just a continuation of the Saklak matter; 3 right?
l 4 A Yes, sir. i l
5 Q Earlier, in answer to some of my questions, you 6 indicated that, at the time that you discovered the --
7 the base metal reduction issue, that you ultimately 8 discussed, with Mr. -- Messrs. Walters and Landers, that 9 there were some friction between QC management and the 10 QC inspections -- I'm sorry -- QC Inspectors over l 11 inspection activities.
12 Do you recall that testimony?
13 A Yes, sir.
] 14 Q What did you mean when you said " inspection activities"?
i 15 What was the nature of the friction?
16 A It would be that Mr. DeWald had indicated that during 17 the course of our inspections, our assigned inspections, 18 if we ran into any deviations during that inspection, we
. 19 were to then come back to the office and try to find out 20 why the deviation existed; for* example, ECN's, drawing 21 changes, something along this line.
22 However, at the time it was the practice of the 23 inspectors to do this research prior to going to the 24 field; and that was, I believe, the circumstance you are
() 25 discussing right now.
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l O
1 (Indicating.)
2 Q So there was this -- if I' understand how the -- the 3 testimony, DeWald was suggesting that the inspection l 4 take place first and then any needed research be done, 5 and I guess the practice was, as you are testifying, 6 that the research was, in fact, done first and then the 7 inspection?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q And DeWald was suggesting the reverse?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q And did you' agree or disagree with that advice?
12 A At the time I disagreed with it.
O 13 Q And this was in that same time frame, early '85, 1$te 14 '84?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q .Okay.
17 And did -- how did DeWald convey this information?
i 18 A He gathered the inspectors together for a general 19 meeting 'and expressed himself at that meeting.
20 0 One of his mass meetings that he held from time to time 21 with the inspectors at that time?
22 A Yes, sir. l 23 Q And you attended that meeting?
24 A Yes, sir.
( ')
25 0 What Tas the manner in which he conveyed that advice?
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 6836 l D
d 1 Was it a direction, an instruction, a suggestion? How 2 would you characterize it?
3 A As an instruction on how to research any variation in 4 the inspection that we were doing.
5 0 And did he order the inspectors to conduct themselves in 6 that fashion?
7 A I don't know if I could call it an order, but I could 1
8 call it a strong suggestion.
9 Q A strong suggestion. All right.
10 And how did you react to that strong suggestion?
11 A I'm going to use the expression I took it with a grain 12 of salt.
{}
13 I believe now and at that time that the way to do 14 the inspections was have all the information and to be 15 knowledgeable of what we were looking at before I went 16 to the field, and this was my opinion; and I continued 17 to do the research that I thought necessary before I 18 went to the field.
i 19 (Indicating.)
l 20 0 So prior to the DeWald meeting, you were doing the 21 research first and then doing your inspections?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q Did it make any difference whether it was weld i
24 inspections or configuration or terminations?
l
() 25 A I can't speak for terminations at that time, as I don't s
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1 believe I had terminations, but I believe that in 2 welding and configuration, doing the research first was i
3 almost a -- almost a necessity, because they were at 3
4 that time putting in the latter part of conduits and 5 cable pan hangers, and these were many times altered due 6 to clearances or instructions from other piping or other 7 contractor's work, and there would be ECN's and FCR's 8/ noted on the back of these drawings, and we would need
~
9 this information in order to do our inspections,.
10 (Indicating.)
11 Q So you did your research first and then went out and did 4
12 your inspections.
) ,
13 This was prior to hearing Mr. DeWald on that 14 subject.
15 Did you change your practice after you got the 16 strong suggestion from Mr. DeWald?
17 A Very little.
l 18 Q I'm sorry? l l
19 A Very little.
20 Q What does that mean?
21 A I normally continued with the routine that I had before 22 where I was doing the research first.
23 Q So you continued to do your research first? ,
l 24 A Yes, sir, except --
() 25 Q Did you alter your practice -- I'm sorry.
1 I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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O 1 Did I interrupt?
2 A No, sir. Go ahead.
3 Q Did you alter your practice in any way?
4 A I didn't alter it to the great -- to any great degree, 5 no, sir.
6 0 Well, that suggests that you altered it to some degree, 7 and I'm trying to pin that down.
8 Did you alter it or did you not alter it, yes or 9 no, and then explain?
10 A For very simple-type hangers, I did alter my research.
11 It depended on the complexity of the drawing that I was 12 dealing with.
13 As far as location, if there were a great many 14 hangers in there, if it was a congested area, I did do 15 the research.
16 If it was --
7 17 Q First?
18 A -- it was -- I did do the research first.
19 If it was a very open area, where it was unlikely i
20 that I had any other interferences, then I did not do l
21 the research.
22 Q Were you following DeWald's advice at that point or 23 strong suggestion at that point?
24 A As much as I thought reasonable from -- from the
() 25 inspection standpoint of what I had to do, yes, sir.
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1 (Indicating . )
2 Q So is it your testimony now that DeWald's strong 3 suggestion was reasonable in some circumstances?
4 A In some circumstances, yes; but for what I was doing 5 mostly, I would say no; but I did occasion -- upon 6 occasion, apply it.
7 Q And you exercised judgment as to when you should or 8 shou'dn't 1 apply it?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q All right.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
12 Are you through with this area?
13 MR. GALLO: No.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay.
15 BY MR. GALLO:
16 Q Are you aware of whether or not Mr. DeWald's strong 17 suggestion altered in any way the inspection practices 18 of other inspectors?
19 A No, sir, I'm not.
20 Q You are not aware?
21 A No, sir. ,
22 0 How about in conversations at lunch with Mr. Holley:
23 Did he convey to you or did you discuss Mr.
24 DeWald's strong suggestion about doing the research
() 25 after the inspection?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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I 6840 4 1 A Yes, sir, I believe it was with Mr. Holley.
2 We considered Mr. DeWald's suggestion of only 3 limited use in some areas.
l 4 Q Did Mr. Holley essentially follow your approach in dealing -- in using the DeWald strong suggestior.?
5 6 A I can't speak from personal knowledge of doing r6 search 7 with Mr. Holley, but I believe he did.
8 MR. GALLO: If I could have a moment, perhaps 9' I can tie this up and we can do the recess.
,10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Please'.
11 I think this is a proper place to take the luncheon 12 recess.
[}
13 MR. GALLO: Your Honor --
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Are you finished with this 15 topic?
16 MR. GALLO: Yes.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I have just one or two 18 questions on this.
19 BOARD EXAMINATION 20 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
21 Q What would be the effect of following Mr. DeWald's 22 strong suggestion?
23 A A greatly increased number of inspections if there were 24 no problems with the research.
() 25 0 I see. ,
1 l
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1 So you took this as a way of speeding up the 2 inspection process?
3 A That was my view of it, yes, sir.
4 Q Now, what would be the effect on the quality of the 5 inspections by doing it this way?
6 A If the inspector found nothing wrong with it and it 7 agreed with the document that h4 had, then it would, in 8 fact, speed up the inspections.
9 (Indicating.)
10 This is looking at it from a holistic type of view.
11 This would be for terminations, conduit installation, 12 CEA's, that broad view. That would pr'obably increase 13 the number of inspections per inspector man-hour.
14 (Indicating.)
f l5 Q Well, what did you consider objectionable, then, about 16 doing it Mr. DeWald's way?
17 A As I did not deal with the broad spectrum, I dealt with 18 a narrow conduit hanger, cable pan hanger installation, 19 where there were numerous alterations in original 20 design, where the ECO drawings or the other documents 21 that indicated design would be altered by ECN's and 22 FCR's.
23 0 Well, did you consider that doing it Mr. DeWald's way 24 would have any affect on the quality of the inspection?
() 25 A I can't speak for other inspectors.
)
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(~) l l
\_)
1 Q No. Speak with regards to the kinds of inspections that 2 you were doing.
I 3 A If I noticed that there was a deviation, then I would 4 have to come back -- I don't believe you are following 5 what Mr. DeWald and what I am trying to say.
6 Q No, I'm not, and that's why I'm trying to clarify it for 7 the record.
8 I assume, maybe incorrectly, that if I'm not 9 following it, some other people may not be following it.
10 But I'm trying to find out what you considered 11 objectionable about the manner that Mr. DeWald suggested 12 you do the inspections.
13 A Mostly it would be the efficiency of getting it done.
14 Using both routes, my way of doing it, Mr. DeWald's 15 way of doing it, we both arrive at the same place.
16 I just think mine was more efficient for what I was 17 doing.
18 Q And I'm trying to get at the basis for that, because you 19 indicated Mr. DeWald's method would probably speed up 20 the inspections, and if that's the case, I want to --
21 I'm trying to put my finger on what would be negative 22 about what he suggested ac far as you think.
23 A When dealing with configuration and welding, the 24 smallest alteration would -- would call for a design n
(_) 25 document change. This could be in the form of ECN or I
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1
()
1 FCR.
2 If we took the CO drawing and went out there and we 3 said, "This is supposed to be a certain type of hanger,"
4 and it's not installed nor is it an acceptable 5 alternate, then in that case, we would have to stop our 6 inspection and go back and do the research.
7 If we're in a heavy, congested area, where there's i
8 a lot of piping and other material being installed, it l
9' 'is very likely that this may have happened as high as, 10 say, 20 percent or even 30 percent of the time. It 11 depends on the congested area.
I If you had 10 inspections to do in that area, that
{) 12 13 means you are going to have to return to the office 3
- 14 times.
15 It's easier to do the research while you are in the 16 office and have all the documents and -- have all the i 17 documents and go out there and do it all at one time j 18 with the complete documents; whereas just looking at it 19 from the point of efficiency --
20 0 Well, now, let me ask you: -
21 Do you think if you had not done your research l 22 first,.that you might miss things that you wouldn't miss 23 if you -- !
l 24 A That's a possibility.
() 25 Q -- if you did that research first?
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1 A That's a possibility, yes, sir.
2 Q Well, was that one of your considerations for not 3 following Mr. DeWald's suggestion with regard to all the 4 inspections?
I 5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Okay.
7 I'm trying my hardest not to put words in your 8 mouth, but that's what I thought you had in mind.
9 A Mostly I'm looking at it from the standpoint of 10 efficiency. That's the big thing with me.
11 I think it would be more efficient, in the
~
12 situation that I was dealing with and the inspections 13 that I was doing, to do the inspection first.
14 0 Oh, so, in other words, your main objection was that you i
15 thought, contrary to Mr. DeWald, that if you did it your 16 way, you would get more inspections done for the time 17 than if you did it Mr. DeWald's way?
18 A From my narrow point of view due to the inspections, 19 yes, sir.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
21 We'll take a recess.
I 22 MR. GALLO: I have some follow-up questions.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, the question is i
24 whether you want to do it now or after lunch.
() 25 If you want to do it now, that's fine.
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1 MR. GALLO: We can do it after lunch.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: After lunch?
3 MR. GALLO: Yes.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We'll take a break until 5 1:15.
6 (WHEREUPON, the he:, ring was continued to 7 the hour of 1:15 o' clock P. M.)
8 9
10 11 CE) 13 14 15 16 17 18
- - 19 20 21 l
22 23 24
() 25 <
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1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4
____x 5 :
In the Matter of: :
6 : Docket No. 50-456 OL COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY : 50-457 OL 7 :
(Braidwood Station, Units 1 :
8 and 2) :
- ; _ ; _ ; _ ; ; ; ; ; _ ; ; ; ; ;x 9
10 Met pursuant to recess.
11 Tuesday, July 8, 1986.
1:15 P. M.
(:) 13 14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We're back in session.
15 Mr. Gallo?
16 MR. GALLO: Before I start, your Honor, I'd
, 17 like to move into evidence Applicant's Exhibits 78 and 18 79.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild?
20 MR. GUILD: No objections, Mr. Chairman.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Miss Chan, any objection to 22 the admission of 78 and 79, Applicant's Exhibits?
23 MS. CH AN : The Staff has no objection.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Received.
() 25 (Applicant's Exhibits Nos. 78 and 79 for l
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() !
1 identification were thereupon received in 2 evidence as Applicant's Exhibits Nos. 78 4
3 and 79 in evidence.)
4 BY MR. GALLO:
! 5 Q Mr. Bowman, we were talking about the differing l 6 viewpoints between Mr. DeWald and yourself on conducting 7 the research --
1
- 8 A Yes, cir.
j 9 Q -- prior to the lunch recess.
i
- 10 Isn't the difference as simple as DeWald wanted the j 11 research to be conducted af ter the inspection --
i 12 essentially you'd go out and inspect first and then do
- 13 any research that seemed necessary -- and you thought it 14 was, on the other hand, more efficient to do the 15 reverse?
16 A Yes, sir.
I 17 Q Now, let's take a particular type of inspection. Let's 18 assume you' re going to inspect a hanger for weld
] 19 acceptability and you were given the assignment and you 20 decided not to do your research first but that you would 21 go out in the field and do your inspection.
22 Would there be a weld traveler in the field for 23 your use to facilitate your inspection of the welds?
24 A For the work that I was doing?
() 25 Q Yes.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 A You're referring to it was a current installation?
2 No, sir. In the work that I was doing, that would 3 not be true. )
1 4 0 Were you reinspecting corrected work?
5 A No, sir. I was inspecting original installations, 6 mostly.
7 Q Original installations?
8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q All right.
10 And what documents would you have in your 11 possession?
j 12 You'd have the checklist, obviously.
13 A We would usually deal with just installation reports.
l 14 Q What was in the -- do you mean by that an installation 15 drawing?
16 A No, sir.
i 17 It would be an installation report where 2
18 Construction is stating that they've completed the 19 installation of a particular hanger.
l 20 0 All right.
21 And then would the only document in your possession 22 for that inspection be the checklist itself?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q And could an ECN or an FCR be relevant to that type of
() 25 inspection?
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 0 Could you explain how it might be?
3 A An ECN may not be noted on the installation report that 4 does directly affect the hanger or it could alter it as l
l 5 to attachment type, locations, elevations. Anything 6 dealing with the installation of the hanger or any of 7 its internal attachments could be altered by the ECN.
8 Usually this ECN would be noted on the installation 9 report, but sometimes they weren't.
10 0 I see.
11 So the installation report would include any 12 reference to an ECN or FCR or any other relevant 13 document?
14 A That was what was intended, yes, sir.
15 Q Would the installation report have a description of the 16 hanger and the number of welds, also?
17 A The description would be in the hanger identification.
18 No, it would not have the number of welds.
19 Q All right.
20 Now, if you were doing a configuration inspection, 21 would there be a traveler in the field for that type of 22 an inspection?
23 A No, sir. It would be identical to the installation 24 report, which notifies us that the welding and
() 25 configuration is completed.
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1 Q Oh, is it just a report to cover both configuration and 2 welding?
3 A Yes, sir.
l 4 0 What would you use to compare the installed condition to 5' determine -- against to determine whether or not the 6 configuration was adequate?
7 A If it was a cable pan hanger, it would be to the EP --
8 EB standards and any pertinent information we may pick 9 up off of the actual plan drawings that would be for 10 location.
11 Q Now, what's the EB standards?
12 A EB standards are the standard design cable pan hangers, 13 EB Standard 115, that gives certain H-type hangers 14 specific material, location, internal dimensions.
15 These are identified with letters, and the letters 16 are corresponded to the actual hanger itself for 17 internal dimensions and elevations.
18 Q And you'd also -- would you also use the design drawings 19 as well for the installation concerned?
20 A For location, yes, sir.
21 Q Now, would that be part of the documentation in the 22 report, the installation report?
23 A Yes, sir.
l 24 The drawing for location would be one of the main
() 25 factors in determining where the hanger is at, and this l
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1 is always reported on installation reports.
2 Q So if you followed the DeWald approach and did your I 3 inspection first and began to compare the as-installed 4 configuration against what your drawing showed, if there 5 was a difference, what would that tell you?
1 6 A That there is probably a document or some other l
7 engineering notification that there's been a change in 8 the hanger or that it was installed incorrectly.
9 Q Would that cause you, then, to return to the office and 10 do your research to ferret out this document or to at a 11 least get an explanation?
12 A Yes, sir, it would.
l 13 Q And if I understand your previous testimony, you thought 14 it was more efficient to do the research first to get 15 any documents you needed so that you could go out to the I
16 field fully equipped, so to speak?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q Now, in answer to one of Judge Grossman's questions, I 19 believe you said something to this effect: that you i
- 20 could go either the DeWald way on research or your way, 21 and you'd both get to the same place.
22 Do you remember that?
I 23 A Yes, sir.
i 24 Q Did you mean by that that you'd both get to a quality
() 25 inspection?
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1 1 A Yes, sir.
i 2 0 To refresh your memory, what prompted this line about 3 research was that you had -- in answer to one of my l 4 questions, you had indicated that one of the indicators 5 of the QC Inspector dissatisfaction with management was 6 this mass meeting that DeWald had, where he mentioned 7 his approach to doing research.
8 You had also mentioned that one of these
- 9 contributors to this dissatisfaction that the QC 10 Inspectors felt with management was the Saklak-Snyder 11 incident and, of course, your situation with Mr. Walters 12 and Mr. Landers.
() 13 Can you remember any other incident that caused
)l i
l 14 this QC Inspector dissatisfaction that led to going to 15 the NRC on March 29th?
i 16 A Those are the only ones that I recall at this time.
17 Q Now, af ter -- and you f elt that these incidents l 18 reflected a poor attitude, from a quality standpoint, on i 19 the part of Comstock QC management; is that correct?
20 A Yes, sir.
i 21 Q I don' t want to put words in your mouth. If it's not 1
22 correct, feel free to --
l 23 A I don't agree with the term " poor."
i 24 I would say they had more of an aggressive approach
() 25 to quality control.
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6853 I () l l 1 Q An aggressive approach.
, 2 Well, do you mean that in a derogatory sense: that 3 it was aggressive to the detriment of quality
! 4 inspections and quality results? )
i 5 A I believe that they wanted more f rom their inspectors l 6 than the drawings and the situation really could 7 reasonably be expected.
8 I think the inspectors were doing an adequate job 9 of doing their inspections, seeing as how -- with the l
i 10 volume of information that they had to have to do their 11 inspections correctly.
j 12 Q They wanted -- can you explain?
f 13 What more did the QC management want?
14 .A They wanted more inspections.
15 Q I see.
16 A greater number of inspections --
17 A A greater number of inspections.
18 Q -- being completed?
i 19 And af ter this -- your testimony on the question of 20 the research matter with respect to your view versus Mr.
21 DeWald's view, do you think that's an example of the 22 kind of attitude by QC management of wanting more 23 inspections out of the inspectors?
24 A I think that's a good example of Mr. DeWald's attitude, O 25 yes, sir.
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(
l 1 Q Now, do you think that QC management was unreasonable in i
2 this endeavor?
3 Were they being unreasonable in wanting more 4 inspections f rom the inspectors?
5 A Other than Mr. Saklak being unreasonable and Mr.
6 Walters' attitude that we discussed earlier that I 7 disagreed with, I wouldn't say that they were being l 8 unreasonable.
9 I would think that they weren't being realistic in 10 the amount of material that the inspector had to go 11 through in order to make an adequate judgment on the 12 quality of the installation.
13 Q Did this environment that existed at that time -- did it 14 affect in any way the quality of your inspections as you 15 were conducting them at that time?
16 A No, sir.
i
- 17 Q Would it be f air to say that -- and correct me if you i
l 18 don't agree -- that you and the other inspectors were 19 just fed up with the management approach employed by i
20 Comstock and that's what caused you to go to the NRC and l 21 complain?
22 A. I believe that would be a fair statement, yes, sir.
23 Q And was that, being fed up, contributed to by the long 24 hours you wera working?
() 25 A I'm sure that had some effect on the people's nerves or
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O 1 stamina, this type of thing; but I believe it was mcre 2 that they found that the attitude of management was
{ 3 becoming opposed to their own idea of the quality 4 control.
j 5 Q That is, opposed to -- do you mean by that opposed to 6 the inspectors' own idea on how Quality Control i
l 7 Inspectors should be managed?
I 8 A Yes, sir.
- 9 Q Essentially, the inspectors -- including you yourself --
! 10 resented being told by DeWald how to do your research; i
11 is that a fair statement?
l l
{) 12 13 A I can't speak f or the other inspectors, but for my own self, yes.
14 Q You knew how to do research; right?
15 You didn't need his help on that score?
16 A If that was his intent, to help us, he should have l
l 17 looked at it on a case-by-case basis, rather than i
l 18 address everyone and say, "This is the way we' re going 19 to do it."
l 20 Q Essentially, QC management was viewed as unsympathetic; 21 would that be a fair -- unsympathetic to the QC 22 Inspectors' situation?
23 A In relationship to doing the inspections, yes, sir.
24 Q And did going to the NRC on March 29th -- did that 25 resolve that problem?
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() l l
1 A Over a period of time, I believe that situation was 1
2 taken care of. I cannot say that just going to the NRC 3 did it.
4 0 I just want to summarize at this point.
5 So that the incidents -- at least, that you' re 6 aware of -- that caused you and the other inspectors to l 7 go to the NRC were the Saklak-Snyder matter, the DeWald
) 8 meeting on research and your own experience with Mr.
l 9 Walters and Mr. Landers; is that your -- is that a 10 correct statement?
11 A I would say that it was my incident with Mr. Walters and 12 Mr. Landers and the incident with Mr. Saklak and Mr.
13 Seeders and Mr. Saklak and Mr. Snyder.
14 Mr. DeWald's meeting where he instructed us or i 15 suggested to us how to do research had nothing to do or l 16 no bearing on it, in my opinion.
j 17 Q Had no bearing on your opinion?
18 A Yes, sir.
1 19 Q To your knowledge, did it have any bearing on some of 20 the other inspectors' motivation for going to the i
21 meeting?
l 22 A It may have, but I cannot speak f rom personal knowledge.
23 MR. GALLO: All right.
l 24 Could I have a moment?
() 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Sure.
l l
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1 0
1 1 BY MR. GALLO:
2 Q Mr. Bowman, ref erring now to the March 29th meeting, do l 3 you recall one of the inspectors at that meeting telling 4 the NRC resident inspectors that Comstock was 5 emphasizing quantity of inspections over quality of 6 inspections?
4 4
7 A Yes, sir.
j 8 Q And I understand that the NRC resident asked for a show
! 9 of hands among the 24 QC Inspectors to indicate whether 10 or not they agreed with the -- with that statement.
I 11 Do you recall that happening?
- 12 A Yes, sir.
13 0 Did you raise your hand?
i 14 A Yes, sir.
15 Q And did you agree with that statement?
1
! 16 A Due to the things that I had witnessed, yes, sir.
17 Q And was the basis for your judgment in agreeing with 18 that statement the matters that we've -- I've questioned 19 you about in the last five minutes and prior to the i 20 break for lunch; that is, the Saklak-Snyder and the
- 21 Seeders incidents, your own experience on the base metal 22 reduction problem as well as -- well, that's it.
i
! 23 Was that the basis for your agreement?
! 24 A The basis of the agreement would be that I agreed that :
() 25 some inspectors had been pressured to do more Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
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1 inspections than they were comfortable with.
2 I had not been pressured by either Mr. DeWald or 1
3 Mr. Saklak; and other than the incident of the base !
4 metal reduction, I had not been pressured in any way to 5 do or inspect something.
6 0 All right.
l 7 A But I was in sympathy, and I believe that the other
, 8 inspectors had been pressured, yes, sir.
9 Q Now, who were these other inspectors?
I 10 A Namely, Danny Holley, Dean Peters -- that's all I can 11 recall that I have personal knowledge of.
12 0 You wouldn't mean Mr. Peterson, would you?
13 A Yes, sir, Peterson; excuse me.
l
! 14 Q Now, you said that they were being pressured to do more 15 inspections than they were comfortable with?
16 A Yes, sir.
i 17 0 I take it that -- did you talk to -- let's take Mr.
18 Holley first.
19 Did you talk to Mr. Holley al'out this point?
20 A only briefly, where he commented that Mr. Walters had i
21 been, you know -- I believe it was Mr. Walters -- been 22 wanting to know why he wasn't doing more inspections.
23 Q And what was Mr. Holley's response or your understanding 24 of his response to that question?
() 25 A My understanding is he's doing what he thinks is best Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. .
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1 and what he's comfortable with and he's not going to do 2 any more.
3 u And was it suggested to him by Mr. Walters or others 4 that he So more than whatever number he was doing?
5 A I did not hear Mr. Walters tell Danny that, but that is 6 what Danny related to me, yes.
7 Q Now, Mr. Holley related this one incident to you; is 8 that correct?
9 A This was just in like you could say lunchtime 10 conversation. He didn't give me a date or a place that 11 this incident took place.
12 Q Do you recall him complaining of any other similar type
[
13 of incidents that occurred?
14 A No, sir.
15 Q So this was one incident regarding Mr. Holley?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 0 Now, let's turn to Mr. Peterson.
18 Do you recall him complaining about being pressured 19 to do more inspections than he was comfortable with?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 This took place during a meeting with Mr.
22 Worthington and Mr. Walters, where the group that was
) 23 under Mr. Walters was called together into Mr.
l 24 Worthington's office.
() 25 At that time the people who were -- I'll put it l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 this way -- were not fulfilling the management's 2 expectations as to the number of inspections 4
3 accomplished were questioned in f ront of the others in 4 the group as to what their problem was and just exactly 5 how they thought they could improve the number of -
6 inspections.
7 Q And Mr. Peterson was singled out for --
8 A Yes, sir, he was.
9 Q -- discussion?
10 How many inspections had he been doing a day?
11 A I think he was averaging one and a half welding and 12 configuration inspections.
O 13 0 Was it one or one and a half?
14 A I believe it was an average of one and a half.
15 Q All right.
16 And Mr. Worthington or someone else was suggesting 17 that they expected more than that on the average; is 18 that your testimony?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q And Mr. Peterson was uncomfortable with this?
21 A He -- yes, sir. He -- and he gave reasons for it.
22 He said that sometimes doing one welding and l 23 configuration on a given hanger is very simple, but on 24 others it is very complex and requiring not only time to
() 25 do research but time to even reach the location where 1 l
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1 the hanger is installed. v' ' '
2 Q But nevertheless, on the average he was'doing about one 3 and a half inspections a day?
l 4 A I believe that was the figure mentioned, yes, sir.
5 Q Do you recall what period of time thie average was taken 6 from?
7 A No, sir.
8 Q Bow many days?
9 A I do not.
10 0 What did Worthington tell him? i 11 A He -- I believe he expressed himself that he believed 12 that Mr. Peterson was not applying himself as vigorously 13 as he could in doing the research and getting into the 14 field in an adequate amount of time.
15 Q And did he say anything more, to the best of your 16 recollection?
17 A No. That was pretty much the basis of the meeting.
18 Q And did you interpret that exchange between Worthington 19 and Peterson as an example of pressure to do more 20 inspections?
21 A That's' a -- a hard question f or me to answer.
22 Yes, Mr. Worthington wanted more inspections done, 23 but I r'eally can't say that 'Mr. Wor'thington was telling 24 Mr. Peterson to sacrifice any of the quality control
() 25 concerns in order to achieve that production.
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(}
1 That's the best that I can answer that.
2 Q Do you recall any other incident involving Mr. Peterson 3 where he complained that he was being -- or more 4 inspections than he was comfortable with performing were 5 being inspected -- or expected by QC management? --
6 A Prior to this meeting, Mr. Peterson had expressed 7 himself to me that there had been comments made to him 8 by Mr. Walters and Mr. Worthington about the number of '
l t
9 inspections that he had done and their expectations of I 10 him to increase the number of inspections.
11 0 These were prior to the meeting that you've just
, 12 testified to?
(:) 13 A Yes, sir.
! 14 Q All right.
j 15 So we've got this experience that you related
- 16 involving Mr. Peterse ?
l l 17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q And you' re not sure whether that's a good example of 19 pressure by QC management or not, but it might be; is 20 that --
l 21 A I wouldn't call it harassment or intimidation, from my 22 point of view, sir. ,
23 0 We' re using the word " pressure" at this point, pressure
! to do more inspections than the inspector was 24
() 25 comfortable with.
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()
1 A In that case, let's call it " pressure," yes, sir.
2 Q Then we have this one incident involving Mr. Holley; is 3 that correct? ,
. 4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q Now, those are the incidents that you have in mind that 6 caused you to raise your hand in agreement on March 29th 7 when the NRC resident inspectors asked for that showing 8 of hands?
i 9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q I may have asked you this question, but did you yourself 11 ever experience any pressure f rom any of your 12 supervisors at Comstock to do more inspections than you 13 were comfortable with doing?
14 A No, sir.
15 Q Can you give me some notion of how many inspections --
16 strike that.
17 I understand that the number of inspections per day 18 is a function of the type of hangers you inspect and the 19 complexity of the installation.
20 But can you give me -- given that, can you give me 21 some notion as to the number of inspections that you do 22 on the average over a period of time?
I 23 A In all truth, it would be nearly impossible to give any l
24 kind of average to this. If we could break it down into O 25 eypes --
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C:)
1 Q All right.
2 A -- of hangers, it might be possible; but for just the 3 general inspection, it would be ludicrous to even 4 attempt.
l 5 Q If we break it down into hangers, what types of hangers 6 -- what categories of hangers should be established?
7 A There are many different types. I would say there are 8 probably at'least 50 types of cable pan hangers --
9 Q All right.
10 A -- each one increasingly more complex.
11 Q Well, it doesn' t appear that it would be useful, then --
12 A No.
(:) 13 Q -- to divide these -- come up with an answer by the 14 various categories of hangers.
15 Somehow or other, the Comstock management was able 16 to determine, with respect to Mr. Peterson, that on the 17 average he was doing one and a half inspections?
l 18 A That was the number of inspections completed over a 19 period of time; in 30 days he did 45 inspections, 20 something along those lines.
21 I'm not sure how they established the one and a 22 half.
23 Q Are you doing inspections at the present time?
24 A Not as actively as I was at that time period, sir. ;
() 25 Q All right.
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( l 1 Well, have you had occasion to review your -- the 2 number of inspections that you've done over a period of 3 time and determine what the average might have been?
4 A Let me give you an example, which I believe is the best 5 way to answer this.
6 I've spent four days inspecting one hanger; and at 7 the same time, I've inspected 20 hangers in one day. It 8 all depends on the complexity, the necessary research 9 and the location of the hanger.
10 0 In the population of hangers, are there many hangers 11 that require four days of inspection?
12 A There are not a great number, no, sir.
13 0 There are not -- are there a greater number of 14 inspections -- strike that -- there are a greater number 15 of hangers that require a shorter duration inspection; 16 is that correct?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q Inspections that can be completed in a day's time or 19 less than a day's time?
20 A Yes, sir. I would say the majority of them could be 21 completed in less than a day's time.
22 O You've never kept track of the number of inspections 23 that you might have perf ormed across, say, a 30-day 24 period with a mix of both short-term inspections and
() 25 hanger inspections that required the longer period of l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 time?
2 A No, sir.
3 0 Talking about this subject of the number of inspections, 4 do you recall during your employment any quotas being 5 established by Comstock management in terms of expecting 6 a certain number of inspections to be completed on the 7 average each day?
8 A There's never been communicated to me by anyone in 9 management that there was a quota required on the number 10 of inspections an inspector had to perform.
11 0 Did you ever go to one of these DeWald general meetings 12 and have it suggested that maybe six to eight' 13 inspections would be a norm that might be expected?
14 A I -- I believe I recall something about that, but I 15 don't recall Mr. DeWald saying hard and fast that, 16 "We've got to do these many inspections a day," or 17 anything along those lines, no.
18 I believe Mr. DeWald may have used those numbers as 19 an ideal situation in respect to the number of hangers 20 that they need to do, giving them a time f rame that CECO 21 said, "We'd like to get all this backlog cleaned up by 22 this time. "
l 23 Mr. DeWald may have used those numbers saying, 24 "Well, we need on the average to get somewhere between
() 25 six and eight done in order to meet this deadline."
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1 He may have been using it as a reference, but I 2 don' t recall Mr. DeWald saying that, "We need to get 3 these done, and every inspector should have that many a 4 day," no, I don' t remember that.
5 Q He would have the same problem you would in terms of the 6 variances among the hangers in trying to --
7 A Exactly.
- 8 Q -- in trying to allocate an average per inspector? ,
9 A Yes, sir.
10 0 Is it your testimony that Mr. DeWald was, at this 11 general meeting, indicating the objective of reducing an 12 inspection backlog; is that correct?
13 A Yes, sir.
14 Q And that given the size of the backlog, in order to get 15 it reduced, inspectors would have to do on the average 16 of six to eight inspections a day?
17 Is that the context in which you recollect him 18 making that kind of statement?
19 A Yes, sir. Mr. DeWald was just putting it in 20 perspective.
21 Q You indicated in your earlier testimony that you had i 22 worked for Mr. Worthington; he was your supervisor at l 23 one point?
24 A Yes, sir.
() 25 Q Did he at any time give you any impression that he Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
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1 preferred a certain quantity of inspections and expected 2 a certain quantity of inspections?
3 A Other than the meeting with Mr. Dean Peterson, no, sir.
4 Q Do you have any notion that he preferred quantity over 5 quality in terms of the adequacy of the inspection?
6 A Mr. Worthington never gave me that impression, sir.
7 Q What's the basis for your conviction on that score?
8 A I've known Mr. Worthington f rom the River Bend project, 9 and at that time we -- although we didn't deal a lot IV together, I knew of him and had seen some of his work.
11 I don't believe the man's training or background 12 would allow him to make that kind of a decision and then 13 implement it with inspectors.
14 0 Well, in the parformance of your inspection work, did 15 you ever experience pressure to complete your work?
16 A Not as pressure as we've discussed it earlier, no, sir.
17 Q Well, I take it it was a different kind of pressure?
18 A There are always various pressures on an inspector.
19 If you have a crew waiting to complete a function 20 that requires a QC inspection, yes, I would call that ;
21 pressure.
22 If you're doing some research necessary to get this 23 done so you can get out to the field and help that crew ,
24 get things moving, that's a -- that's a type of
() 25 pressure.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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6869 O l 1 Q Is that a pressure unusual to your job?
l 2 A Usually that's an in-process type of thing. It would be !
l 3 a very unusual type of thing, yes, it would, but it does 4 happen upon occasion.
5 Q But there are other occurrences in the workplace that i 6 create pressure as well?
7 A There's always some pressures f rom management; " Hey, we 8 need to get this done. Drop what you' re doing now, and 9 let's take care of this."
I l 10 There's pressure f rom the construction crews. They 11 may disagree with what you' re saying or you may get out 12 there, ready to go ahead and do something in-process, 13 and they may not be there. So you would say, "Well, 14 shall I wait here for five minutes or shall I go see the 15 foreman or shall I go back?"
16 There's always pressures of some kind.
17 0 Is this kind of pressure you now describe -- is this 18 something that's unusual and rare to encounter or is it
! 19 something that's inherent in the job?
20 A Which pressure?
21 Q The pressure to get your job done because the 22 construction crews want to get moving and management l
23 wants to get moving.
24 A That's just inherent in the nature of a quality control
() 25 inspection, in my opinion.
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. 1 Q Were you able to handle that kind of pressure?
2 A It doesn't bother me at all. ,
3 0 Do you think perhaps that some of the other inspectors 4 were not able to handle that kind of pressure?
5 A Inspectors are usually pretty much lone wolves. They 6 don' t work in teams.
7 It's kind of hard for me to judge other than 8 af ter-the-fact reactions, lunchtime talk about some of 9 the pressures that the other ones deal with; so I really 10 can't say or point to an individual, saying, "He can't 11 handle in-process inspections," or, "He can' t handle,"
12 you know, "the pressure of a large number of ICR's, 13 NCR's." '
g 14 I can't answer that.
15 Q Do you believe -- do you have any opinion as to whether 16 that kind of pressure might have caused some of the 17 inspectors to perceive that QC management was not being 18 sympathetic and was pref erring quantity over quality?
19 A Taking the long hours that we were working, I believe it 20 could have been a factor; I really do.
21 0 Is working long hours unusual in your job?
22 A No, sir, not f rom my own personal experience.
23 Q As an inspector, you've worked long hours at Comstock?
24 A Yes, sir.
[ () 25 Q Can you give me some idea as to the kind of hours you' re l
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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([)
I talking about?
2 A Five 11-hour days and eight on Saturday.
3 Q Did you work anything approaching those kind of hours 4 when you were at River Bend?
5 A Not at River Bend, sir. That was what was known as 6' ,
" rolling 40." That was four days on and four days off.
7 Q I see.
8 A However, in my four days off, I did, through f riends in i 9 the Greater Energy System, manage to work those four 10 days off at a tank job they wi ce building down the road.
11 0 So you worked in any event?
?
, 12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q These general meetings -- we discussed at length the 14 general meeting that Mr. DeWald held involving his 15 advice on conducting research.
16 Do you recall attending any other meetings that Mr.
17 DeWald chaired?
18 A Mr. DeWald would -- at one time was holding them once a 19 week.
20 I don't recall the content of all the meetings, no.
21 Q All right, but you do recall that meetings occurred.
22 Do you recall any incident where the subject matter 23 involved questions of how the inspections should be 24 conducted? !
l
- () 25 A Yes, sir.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 There was usually a question-and-answer session at 2 the end of each meeting, where either the Lead l 3 Inspectors or individual inspectors could ask questions 4 about any procedure or detail they didn't understand, if l
5 that is what you were referring to.
6 0 Yes.
, 7 Did the subject of weekly status reports ever come 8 up at these meetings, to your recollection?
9 A I believe Mr. Larry Seese was in charge of the weekly 4
10 status reports. Other than that, it was like the 11 reading of the minutes of the previous meeting.
12 I don't believe that we really discussed them at
)
13 all.
14 Q At the general meetings?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q Well, did Mr. Seese have occasion to discuss these
( 17 status reports with the inspectors?
18 A As a group where they stood and what progress was made l
19 and things of that nature, but I don't know that he ;
20 discussed it with any individuals.
21 Q Now, what kind of information, based on your 22 understanding, is contained in these status reports?
23 A That would be the number of ICR's and NCR's in-house to I 24 close, the number of ICR's and NCR's that had been
() 25 closed, the number of inspections to be done, the number Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, 1111nois culse f (312) 232-0262
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O 1 of inspections accomplished.
2 It would be like a status of where we are now, 3 where we've been and where we're headed to.
4 0 Was this information available in a total form or was it 5 broken down by inspector?
6 A It was in a total form.
7 I don't recall at these meetings any inspector 8 being pointed out as, you know, being great or one being 9 less than great.
) 10 0 To return just one brief' moment to the research issue, i 11 you indicated that you and Mr. Holley -- or, at least, 12 for yourself -- you were going to continue doing the 13 inspections as you believed was appropriate, and that 14 was in most instances to do the research first; correct?
15 A Correct.
16 0 Was Mr. -- to your knowledge, was Mr. DeWald aware of I
17 your attitude?
l'8 A I didn't go out of my way to inform him.
19 0 Was your -- so you don' t know?
20 A No, sir.
21 Q Was your immediate supervisor aware of the fact that you 22 weren't changing your approach in any significant way?
23 A I believe -- at this period in time, my supervisor I 24 believe was Mr. Worthington, and I believe Mr.
() 25 Worthington was aware of it even though I didn't go out Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. _ _
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- O 1 of my way to tell him, either.
2 Q Were you disciplined or reprimanded in any way for 3 failing to follow the strong suggestion from Mr. DeWald?
4 A No, sir.
5 Q Were you aware of any other inspectors that were 6 reprimanded or disciplined in any way for their f ailure, 7 if that occurred, to follow the strong suggestion f rom 8 Mr. DeWald?
9 A Not to my knowledge, sir.
10 Q Can you explain to me -- apparently your disagreement
}
11 with Mr. Walters and Mr. -- at least, Mr. Walters --
12 made you exceedingly angry; is that correct?
13 A Yes, sir.
14 Q And it was exacerbated by Mr. Landers' attitude; is that 15 correct?
16 A I don't know if'" exceedingly angry" is the correct term, 17 but I was in 180-degree opposition to what Mr. Walters 18 said.
19 0 Is there some reasen why at that time you didn't 20 complain to Mr. DeWald and have him deal with the 21 matter?
22 A At that immediate moment, I thought it would probably be 23 in my best interest to just leave the matter for the 24 moment and see what action Mr. Landers was -- would take
() 25 and address it later that day.
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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O 1 Q So it was -- your immediate attitude was to wait and 2 see?
3 A Yes, sir.
l 4 Q You told Landers, and you wanted to see what would 5 happen? '
6 A Yes, sir.
7 0 And what did happen was that you were told to write an 8 NCR if it was appropriate; right?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q Did that in any way aff ect your decision to discuss it 11 with Mr. DeWald or to take it up with Mr. DeWald?
i 12 A I don't believe I -- the incident that we' re talking 13 about -- that I discussed it with Mr. DeWald.
14 Q Right, you didn't discuss it, but my -- it was a badly 15 framed question.
16 My question really is: After you found out the 17 result -- you were advised by Worthington that if you i
18 wanted to, you could write an NCR -- why didn' t you at 19 that point complain to Mr. Worthington about the
. 20 attitude of Walters and Landers?
l l 21 A Perhaps I mistakenly assumed that Mr. Worthington would 22 explain to Mr. Walters that the attitude that he was 23 taking towards base metal reduction in any building 24 structural system should be addressed and not put off to l () 25 the side with the supposition that someone else will Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 find it and locate it.
2 Q Do you know whether or not Worthington was aware of 3 Walters' response to you when you raised the question?
4 A Mr. Worthington was aware of it. I told him.
5 Q You told Mr. Worthington?
6 A Yes, sir.
1 7 Q I see.
i 8 What was Worthington's response to that when you i
9 told him what Walters had said?
10 A I don't recall the precise words, but he -- it was that 11 he would talk to him about what I had said.
12 Q Well, did he indicate any agreement or disagreement with 13 Walters' conduct?
14 A He -- my impression was that he disagreed with Mr.
15 Walters' conduct.
16 0 Do you know whether or not he, in fact, talked to 17 Walters?
18 A No, I don't.
19 Q Can you explain why you didn't carry the matter further i
20 to Mr. DeWald?
21 A During the time f rame, which was relatively short, Mr.
22 Worthington gave me satisf action in order to go do what 23 I thought was necessary.
24 0 I see.
() 25 Is that the same reason why you didn't go to Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Commonwealth Edison and complain to them? l 2 A Exactly. I thought the problem had been dealt with.
3 Q But then along comes March 29th and the Saklak-Snyder 4 incident, and what was suddenly a matter put behind you 5 no longer was the case; isn't that correct?
6 A It was a number of inspectors addressing an attitude 7 problem that we believed had existed with LKC 8 management.
9 Just looking at those two incidents alone would 10 have a tendency to put them out of perspective or 11 relationship with each other.
12 The reason I went to the NRC was because Mr.
13 Landers' and Mr. Walters' attitudes I didn't think had 14 changed. They hadn' t come up with -- or discriminated 15 against me in any manner, but I still believed that 16 their attitudes were about the same.
17 Q All right. That's interesting.
I 18 Now, what was the basis for your judgment that 19 Walters' attitude hadn't changed?
20 Had he said something subsequent to make you think l
21 that?
22 A Well, he hadn' t said anything to make me change my mind.
23 He did not come to me and say, "Yes, I was wrong."
24 He did not come to me and say, "Well, maybe you should
() 25 have went ahead and done that sort of thing," nor did he Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 apologize for the loud language that he used towards me.
2 O So he didn't seek you out and apologize for his conduct, 3 like Mr. --
4 A Not necessarily apologize, but at least to say, "Well,
^
5 now I understand what you' re talking about," or anything 6 of that nature.
7 Q You mean recognizing that your position was correct all 8 along?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q And that was the same at the time with respect to Mr.
11 Landers: It wasn't until af ter March 29th that you had 12 that kind of interchange with Landers?
13 A Exactly.
14 0 Do you recall being interviewed by Quality First in 15 roughly January of '857 16 A I remember the interview, but I'm not so sure on the 17 date.
18 Q You do remember the interview?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q Did you tell Quality First about the Walters-Landers 21 matter?
22 A Yes, sir, I believe I did.
23 0 And did you explain it -- did you tell them -- did you 24 explain to them that the matter had been resolved to
() 25 your satisfaction by Mr. Worthington?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 A Yes, sir -- I can't recall whether or not I really told i
2 Quality First about that or not.
3 I have been through this situation of who did I I
4 tell about various things too many times. I'm sorry.
5 Q All right.
6 So you can't recall at the moment whether you told 7 Quality First or not?
8 A No, but I'm sure if I had, they'd have documents
- 9 recording it.
10 0 All right.
11 Do you know an inspector by the name of I guess
~
12 it's Rick Martin?
13 A Yes, sir, I do.
14 Q Did you have occasion to work with Mr. Martin?
15 A I've never worked with Mr. Martin in the field, no, sir, 16 but I've met him around the office.
17 Q Are you aware that Mr. Martin was removed from his 18 duties as an inspector of welds and had his 19 certifications pulled, I think the term is, in that 20 regard?
21 A Yes, sir. ,
22 Q Did you ever have occasion to -- let me use this term --
23 " reinspect" welds that had been inspected in the first (
24 instance by Mr. Martin?
() 25 A Yes, sir, I have.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 0 Can you describe generally the occasion that you have in 2 mind?
3 A I' ve -- through the rework -- I mean, the backlog 4 program of ICR's, NCR's, there were many occasions to 5 view Mr. Martin's work, but I can't recall any specific 6 program dealing with nothing but his work.
7 No, I can' t recall ever doing anything like that.
8 0 Well, do you, in fact -- now, let's see if we can be a 9 little bit more specific here.
10 Did you encounter Mr. Martin's work, if I can call 11 it that?
12 What I mean by that is welds that he had previously 13 inspected.
14 A Yes.
15 0 And you encountered this while you were in the field 16 yourself, doing weld inspections?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 0 What were the circumstances that would bring to mind the 19 fact that these particular welds had been inspected by 20 Mr. Martin?
21 A Other than my being aware that Mr. Martin had his l
22 certification pulled and I knew what his stamp looked 23 like, I've had no other occasion to make note of his 24 inspections.
() 25 Q So you mean you were out in the field, inspecting Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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i
()
I hangers that needed to be -- what were they? -- reworked 2 and you were doing the reinspection?
l 3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q And would these particular hangers have his stamp 5 imprinted on the welds that you were inspecting?
6 A Imprinted adjacent to the welds, yes, si r.
7 0 Imprinted adjacent to the welds.
8 What did that mean; that he had inspected that 9 weld?
10 A That was, yeah, generally accepted, yes.
11 Q I don't understand now.
12 We' re talking about a hanger that had been reworked 13 for some reason.
14 Would that involve rewelding as well?
15 A Sometimes.
16 Q And you would go out and reinspect this work, and you 17 would see a weld adjacent to it that would have Mr.
18 Martin's stamp.
19 I take it that ,that particular weld had not been 20 reworked?
21 A Correct.
22 Q All right.
23 And would you then -- it wasn' t your Job to 24 reinspect Mr. Martin's weld at that point, was it?
() 25 A No, sir.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 0 You just had a compulsion to do so? Is that it?
2 A There's always the desire to compare, you know: Is this 3 fellow doing his job? Am I doing a good job?
l 4 There's always this comparison, at least in my 5 attitude: Bow is he doing? How am I doing?
(
6 You know, just a comparison between the two. I 7 think that's a natural tendency among people.
8 Q And you took the occasion to do it in this instance?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q And what was your assessment of the weld that had been 11 inspected by Mr. Martin?
12 A Now we' re getting back into hongers where some of them 13 are good and some of them are bad.
14 It depends on the criteria that you were using at 15 the time. I don't know the criteria that --
16 0 Well, what criteria were you using -- strike that.
17 I mean, using the criteria you used, did you agree 18 that the weld was acceptable or not?
19 A I would say the majority of the time I would agree with 20 Mr. Martin in his --
~
21 Q The kind of circumstances we' re talking about is really
' 22 happenstance, isn't it?
23 A Yes, it is.
24 Mr. Martin may have written something against that
() 25 hanger that I wouldn't be aware of, and at the time it Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 was required that we put our QC stamp adjacent to the 2 welds. Whether the weld around the corner was !
3 rejectable, would he still have to stamp it over here? l 1
4 (Indicating.)
5 So with that, criterias change, so one stamp at a 6 later criteria would cover that whole connection, 7 whereas before it might have been a stamp for every 8 weld.
9 (Indicating.)
10 So there's a time f rame, and you just can't go in l 11 there and say, "This one is okay because there's a stamp 12 in that connection, but that weld is undersized."
13 You couldn't make that judgment in the field unless 14 you do the research.
15 Q And this comparison that we' re discussing here is really 16 based on your happenstance, encountering a 17 Martin-inspected weld out in the field?
18 A I would say generally that's true, yes, sir.
19 Q Weren' t you also assigned, though -- you and four other 20 inspectors -- the job of reinspecting certain welds 21 inspected by Mr. Martin?
22 A There was an incident where I was joined or, say, 23 drafted into a reinspection of a particular area of 24 welds. I believe it was cable pan weld-downs that we
() 25 were doing that Mr. Martin had previously inspected.
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1 0 This was a special undertaking, a special assignment?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 0 And you were one of five inspectors assigned to that 4 job?
5 A I don't remember the number of inspectors assigned to 6 it, no, sir.
7 Q But you were one of them?
l 8 A Yes, sir.
9 Q And what was the purpose?
10 Was the purpose to -- what was the purpose of the 11 reinspection?
i 12 A The purpose of the reinspection was to assure that the 13 welds in this area were acceptable due to the high 14 traffic volume of people going through there and the 15 cables that were going to be pulled through that area, j 16 because it would be very difficult to do any more 17 repairs or alter anything else once the cables were 18 installed, due to the confinement of the area.
19 Q To your knowledge, was the reinspection prompted because 20 of knowledge that the inspectors involved were Mr.
21 Martin and another inspector?
22 A I don't have that as direct knowledge. That's strictly 23 an inf erred knowledge that I have f rom the other 24 inspectors.
() 25 0 Was this with shoptalk?
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1 A Yeah.
2 Q What was the shoptalk?
3 A That they were going to go back out there and look at 4 Rick Martin's welds.
5 Q All right.
6 And do you recall the area that was reinspected?
7 A I believe it was -- 439, approximately 180, was the ;
8 location in the auxiliary building.
9 Q This was an area in the auxiliary building?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Was it on the first floor?
12 I guess there's only one floor in the auxiliary i
O 13 building.
14 A The ground floor would be 401 elevation, and we' re 15 speaking two floors up, 439 elevation.
l 16 Q Was this an area that would be considered safety-related i
17 work?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Can you give me some approximation as to how many 20 hangers were reinspected?
21 Are we talking about cable pan hangers?
22 A No. We' re talking about the pen that the cable pan 23 hangers would support.
24 There may be totally involved -- maybe there was
() 25 nine hangers with -- I'm guessing right now; I don' t Sonntag Repdrting Service, Ltd.
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1 remember -- two or three pan runs on each one.
2 We're speaking in the neighborhood of 3 approximately, at the most,100 welds.
4 0 100 welds?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Now, describe again what kind of hanger it is we' re 7 talking about.
8 A I believe it was cable pan hangers, the ones that I was 9 involved in.
10 0 My understanding of a cable pan hanger is simply a 11 support that the pan itself rests on, and the conduit or 12 cable is then run through the pan or raceway.
13 A Yes, sir.
14 0 Is that the hanger that you' re ref erring to, that type 15 of hanger?
16 A Yes, It would be two vertical members with horizontal 17 members in between the vertical members.
i 18 Q And the reinspection involved a number of hangers, which 19 you didn't think exceeded more than 100 welds?
20 A Basically, yes.
21 Q Now, did you do the inspection on these 100 welds or was 22 this shared with others?
23 A It was shared with other inspectors.
24 0 It was shared with other inspectors, okay.
() 25 Do you recall offhand how many welds you yourself Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
ueneva, AAAznoAs ovAa, (312) 232-0262
6887 1 inspected?
2 A No, sir.
3 Q Do you recall the results of the inspection in terms of 4 the amount of discrepant welds, if any, you f ound?
5 A In order to -- I think what we' re trying to get at here 6 is whether or not Rick Martin inspected the welds 7 adequately and whether or not he could judge whether or 8 not the weld was good.
9 If we' re trying to get at that, I can't tell you, 10 because I don't know the criteria that Rick Martin was j 11 using to inspect.
12 0 Well, I'm just asking you --
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Bowman -- excuse me -- I 14 think you ought to try to concentrate on answering the 15 questions rather than figuring out where counsel is 16 leading. That's his job.
17 Your job is just to give an honest answer to his 18 questions, and for some reason this seems to be dragging 19 on this afternoon --
20 THE WITNESS: I noticed the same thing.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- and we don' t have direct 22 answers to very clear questions.
23 To begin with, Mr. Gallo asked you about welds that 24 you have -- that you might have inspected af ter Mr.
() 25 Martin had inspected them, and we started talking about i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
l Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262 1 .
6888 i
() l 1 welds that happened to be next to welds that you were 2 inspecting.
3 All this time you had a reinspection project with i I don't know why we 4 regard to Mr. Martin's welds.
l 5 didn' t get there directly. l 6
THE WITN ESS : I'm not sure that the 7 inspection project that I was involved in was directly 8 aimed at Mr. Martin's welds, your -- Judge.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, you indicated that 10 that was the shoptalk that that's what it was, and so -
11 you should have had that in mind right away.
12 THE WITNESS: It was shoptalk.
) ,
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I don't know why we have 14 such a problem getting directly to these things.
15 I think you ought to allow counsel to figure out 16 where he is going, and you just answer the questions.
17 Okay, Mr. Gallo. Proceed.
18 BY MR. GALLO:
19 0 The question that I have for you is: What was the 20 discrepancy rate that you encountered when you 21 reinspected the welds that had originally been inspected 22 by Mr. Martin?
23 A I don' t remember at this time.
24 Q Do you -- do you recall testifying at your deposition:
() 25 "Q Can you recall approximately how many?
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
! Geneva, Illinois culae (312) 232-0262 l l
6889 ts O l 1 "A It was really some time ago. I would 2 hate to give you a number, so I will go 1 3 for perhaps a percentage. I would say l l
4 perhaps one-third.
)
5 "O One-third of the total welds that you X ,
i 6 reviewed were in a rejectable condition?
7 "A Yes. Under the procedures that were in 8 existence at that time, yes."
9 Do you recall that testimony? ,
10 A Yes, sir.
11 0 Does that prompt any recollection to your present memory
~
12 as to how many -- what the discrepancy rate may have 13 been as a , result of your reinspection activity?
14 A I would assume that as far as numbers go, no.
15 But it would -- if I remember correctly, the number 16 of welds that were repaired were approximately 17 one-third. That's the best I can do.
18 Q All right. I'm not asking you to do the impossible.
19 I'm just trying to come up with your best recollection.
20 Your best recollection is that it was approximately 21 a one-third discrepancy rate --
22 A Yes, sir.
23 0 -- of the total welds you inspected?
24 Now, are you aware of what the discrepancy rate was i
i
() 25 with respect to the oraer inspectors, th'at were Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 inspecting the total population of welds with you?
2 A No, sir.
3 MR. GUILD: Mr. Gallo, for completeness, 4 could I ask you to read the following question and 5 answer?
6 My transcript copy is poor. It relates to the last 7 subject.
8 MR. GALLO: Yes.
9 The last answer that I read into the record was:
10 "A Yes. Under the procedures that were in 11 existence at that time, yes.
12 "O At the time you performed the inspection?
)
13 "A Correct."
14 MR. GUILD: That's fine. Thank you.
- 15 MR. GALLO
- Okay.
16 BY MR. GALLO:
17 Q Mr. Bowman, do you recall at your deposition indicating 18 that you had actually seen a checklist signed by Mr.
19 DeWald, and on that checklist was tne results of 1,'000 20 inspections?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q Do you recall that testimony?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q As I understood your testimony on deposition, you had
() 25 actually seen this checklist; is that correct?
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Can you tell me the occasion that you saw this 3 checklist?
4 A If my memory serves me, I was standing at the counter 5 where -- what we call the vault, and it was shown to me 6 I think by Mr. Don Coss.
7 Q Is that C-0-S-S?
4 8 A Yes, yes, sir.
! 9 Q Mr. Coss was working,in .the vault at the time?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q And he showed you the document.
12 Did you actually take the document and look at it?
i 13 A No. It wasn' t in my hands, no, but it was shown to me 14 by Mr. Coss.
15 Q Be held it?
~
16 A Yes.
17 Q Did you look at the signature yourself to ascertain that 18 it had been signed by Mr. DeWald?
19 A The signature that I recall was Mr. DeWald's, yes.
20 Q So you did actually look at it?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q As I recall those checklist forms, there's a space for 23 the number of welds inspected.
24 Do you recall that? Is that correct? ,
() 25 A Yes, sir, the number of welds are indicated on the l
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. !
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1 checklist.
2 Q And on this particular checklist, did you see the figure 3 "1,000" written in?
4 A It was eleven-hundred-and-some-odd welds. I don't 5 remember exactly the number.
6 0 It was eleven-hundred-plus?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And what was the reason that Mr. Coss showed you this 9 checklist?
10 A I believe he thought it to be a very unusual number of 11 inspections completed in one day.
~
12 0 What was your reaction to his statement?
)
13 A I agreed with him.
14 Q Was it your understanding that those -- that number of 15 inspections had, in fact, been accomplished in one day?
16 A That was indicated by the checklist, yes.
17 0 Was it your understanding that indeed they had, in fact, 18 been accomplished in one day?
19 A At the time that I looked at the checklist, yes, that 20 was correct.
21 But I've talked to other people since then. It's 22 now my understanding -- and I believe it was at the time 23 of the deposition -- that the number of inspections 24 indicated on the checklist could have been the result of
() 25 either two or three days' work.
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1 Q But looking at the f ace of the checklist, it appeared as 2 if it had all been done in one day?
, 3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q Now, what happened to the -- can you give me some notion 5 as to the size of this checklist?
6 Was it -- how many pages? Was it 20 pages,10 7 pages, three pages?
8 A It was one normal checklist, one sheet.
9 Q One sheet? ,
10 A Form 19.
11 Q And all the information was on this one sheet?
12 A I don't understand.
13 What do you mean by "inf ormation"?
14 Q It's my understanding that the checklist lists all the 15 hanger numbers.
16 A No, sir. If I recall, I don't recall seeing a great 17 number of hanger numbers on there, no, sir.
18 It was a grid-type location.
19 Q It was for a grid location?
20 A Yes.
21 0 Do you recall the location at all?
22 A No, sir. I wish I did.
23 Q What did Mr. Coss do with the checklist af ter you 24 finished looking at it?
l 1
() 25 A I don' t know, sir.
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1 Q Did you recently have occasion to be requested to look 2 for that checklist? !
3 A Yes, sir, I have.
4 Q Could you explain the circumstances?
5 A I was asked by Mr. Simile to conduct a search through
- 6 the quality control records vault and any of the 7 turnover documents or any other location that I thought i 8 might be reasonable to locate that said checklist.
9 Q Did Mr. Simile request this of you recently?
4 10 A Yes, sir.
11 0 Can you remember approximately when?
12 A Approximately two weeks ago.
13 Q And have you undertaken to conduct this search?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 0 Bave you completed this search?
16 A I've been through the QC records in the LKC vault, and 17 I've found no record of such a checklist.
18 0 You've searched the entire QC vault?
19 A I've searched where I thought it would be reasonably 20 likely that such a checklist would exist, and those 21 places did not contain it.
22 Q Now, did Mr. Simile give you any instructions on the way i 23 you should conduct your search?
24 A No, sir. He gave me quite a free hand.
() 25 Q You essentially established the ground rules yourself Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 for how you would conduct your search?
l 2 A Yes, sir.
3 0 What criteria did you use to determine where this j I
4 checklist was likely to be? )
5 A Discussions with other inspectors prior to Mr. Simile's 6 request and what vague recollection I have of the 7 document would indicate that it would be somewhere in 8 what we call the cable spreading rooms, and that is 9 where I concentrated my search.
10 Q Were you given any advice as to the location that was 11 the subject of this inspection or these inspections by 12 Mr. DeWald f rom, say, Mr. Holley or others?
{) 13 A I did speak to Mr. Holley on it, and his suggestion was 14 also the cable spreading rooms.
I 15 0 Did he give you any grid numbers or hanger numbers or 16 drawing numbers as a guide?
17 A No, sir, he did not.
l 18 Q He just thought that it was in the cable spreading 19 rooms?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q What is the basis for believing that that would be the 22 right location? j 23 A Because of the time period that Mr. DeWald was doing i
24 inspections and the installation records of what hangers
( 25 were installed during that time period.
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1 Q And you searched these records in the vault, and you' ve 2 come up empty-handed --
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q -- is .that your testimony?
5 If you were asked to search all the records in the 6 vault, can you describe for me what kind of undertaking 7 that would be?
8 A Massive.
9 0 Can you -- I won' t holg you to this, but can you give me 10 some approximation as to the level of effort involved in 11 terms of man-days or man-weeks?
12 A I would say if you took a group of five people that were 13 knowledgeable in document inspection and review and 14 research into the vault as it exists now, I don't think 15 it could be reasonably accomplished in anything less 16 than three weeks.
17 Q That's using five people?
18 A That's using five people, and that's with complete, 19 without-delay access to any records.
20 Q What does that mean?
21 What delay is incurred in accessing records?
22 A They' re going into document turnover to the client in l l
23 some of the areas.
24 That generally isn't -- once that happens, it
() 25 usually isn't handed out to anyone that comes in and Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 wants to look at something like that, because these 2 installations are correct and complete and there's no 3 reason for anyone to be looking at them to try to alter 4 or find out information at this late date.
5 0 Did you haver in your search, access to these turnover 6 documents? .
7 A Yes, I did.
8 Q And did you look at them as well?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q Were these documents in the vault as well or were they 1
11 in the hands of Commonwealth Edison?
12 A They' re in the hands of our turnover group right now;
~.
13 but they' re stored, at the end of the shif t, in the 14 vault.
! 15 Q What criteria did you use in looking for those 16 documents?
17 A It was basically that time period and any large number 18 of hangers that could be construed as -- I looked at 19 nonseg bus and cable spreading --
20 Q Nonseg what?
21 A Nonseg bus, B-U-S.
22 Q Are you talking about a nonsegregated bus?
, 23 A Yes, sir.
l 24 Q And what is that?
() 25 A It's just a large number of cables without individual l
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l segregation codes that are contained in a large panel 2 that moves throughout the building.
i 3 0 And why would you single that out for search purposes?
4 A Because of the time period that they were installed.
5 Q And what was that time period? -
6 A 1983 -- late '82, early '83.
7 Q And was this the time that Mr. DeWald was a QC Inspector 8 at the site?
9 A As far as my knowledge, yes, sir.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I believe Mr. DeWald was 11 there in 1981 and 1982, and perhaps you' re looking at 12 the wrong date.
13 THE WITNESS: 1981 -- I don't -- it would 14 have to be very late in 1980, wouldn' t it?
15 That was during the period that the Ernst Company 16 was there. Correct me if I'm wrong.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, all I can say is --
18 THE WITNESS: Or was that in '79?
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All I can say is what we've 20 had testimony on. It's been suggested that it was in l
21 1981 and 1982, so someone is apparently wrong on the i
22 dates.
23 BY MR. GALLO:
24 Q Did you get any instruction?
() 25 THE WITNESS: This --
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1 MR. GALLO: I'm sorry. Go ahead.
2 THE WITNESS: This would be in consultation 3 with the other inspectors. This was the time period l
l 4 that we had agreed upon that Mr. DeWald was doing 1 I
5 inspections that could pertain in these areas.
6 I won' t say that I haven't looked at those 7 documents. Once a drawing was identified as a probable, 8 I looked at every document in the drawing irregardless 9 of the date.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That's fine.
11 BY MR. GALLO:
12 O Is it that you looked at every checklist in the 13 spreading room areas regardless of the date?
14 A Yes, sir. That covers f rom the Ernst installation to 15 the most current installation.
16 Q Would that be true of the turnover documents as well?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q And did you -- were there any other areas that you 19 searched, looking for this checklist?
20 A The remotest possibility I have yet to investigate, and 21 that will be the PTL overview checklists for any large 22 inspections.
23 I just haven't had time to get to that yet, but I 24 believe that would be a very remote possibility.
() 25 Q How would that -- how would -- how would it be possible, Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
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1 in your understanding, that this checklist might be 2 among those documents?
3 A The checklist would not itself be among those documents, 4 but PTL would have a record of any large number of 5 inspections.
6 If they did a 10-percent overview of 1,000 welds, i
7 that would leave a 100-weld inspection.
8 I'would be looking for a PTL checklist that would 9 have over 100 welds in it. Then I would correspond that 10 to the drawings that I've already searched through.
11 Q I see.
l 12 A If they came up with one odd drawing that I hadn't l 13 looked at, then it would~take me to the --
14 Q It might trace it back to the checklist itself?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 0 Could you determine, on the basis of your search, 1
l 17 whether or not any document was missing?
18 A I found no evidence of any missing documents, sir.
19 0 Would it have been likely that you would have uncovered 20 such evidence f rom this kind of search?
1 l 21 A I'm really not in a position, you know, to say whether 22 or not anything like that was done, but I would think 23 that I would have been aware of it.
24 If a document that would supposedly have been
() 25 copied 1,000 times or even 200 or 300 times or even 100 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 times and placed in the vault would have been removed, I
! i 2 think I would have -- there would have been something l I
3 left behind.
1 4 Q Well, are the checklists numbered sequentially or in 5
~
some fashion that you would know that there was a i 6 checklist missing?
7 A No, sir, they wouldn' t be.
8 Q How would you be aware that this checklist might be 9 missing?
10 A The final check on that would be through the PTL 11 overview inspection, where they would record doing a 12 large number of inspections on one day or for one
! 13 inspector. That would be the final check on that.
l 14 Q My understanding is that PTL did a 10-percent overview l
! 15 of the inspection results on each checklist.
16 A I believe that's true for that time period, yes, sir.
17 I can't imagine that they would miss a 1,000-weld
- 18 checklist.
i 19 Q And as you say, you've yet to complete that element of 20 your work?
21 A Yes, sir, but I believe that's a very remote l
l 22 possibility.
23 Q And I assume that af ter you' re dismissed f rom answering ;
l 24 questions here, you' re going to undertake to complete ]
() 25 your search?
l l
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q In your search -- and I'm testing your memory again; I 3 apologiz e.
4 In your search for this checklist, do you ever 4
5 recall looking at a series of drawings that had numbers 6 -- and I must tell you that they were numbers identified
! 7 by Mr. Holley, and I'll give you the numbers. It's 8 3051-H, 3061-H, 3051-I, 3062-I.
9 Do those mean anything to you?
10 A Yeah. They' re cable pan spreader rooms for the Unit 1 11 site.
l 12 Q Do you recall locking at those specific drawings?
13 A Yes, sir, I do.
j 14 Q You do?
i 15 And it didn't -- the information on those drawings 16 didn't lead to uncovering the checklist?
l 17 A When I asked for those drawings, the complete file for 18 Form 19's was delivered to me for cable pan hangers from l
19 the vault; and I found no indication of Mr. DeWald's 20 checklist in those drawings.
l 21 MR. GALLO: I have no further questions.
! 22 BOARD EXAMINATION 23 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
24 Q Going back to Mr. DeWald's approach to researching the
( 25 inspection in which Mr. DeWald apparently wanted the Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 research done af ter the inspection began and you wanted 2 to do it before -- you recall that testimony, I take it?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q -- I believe you indicated that Mr. DeWald took this
- 5 approach in order to speed up the inspections.
6 Didn' t you indicate that?
7 A I believe that was his intent, and I -- yes, sir.
8 Q Well, how do you believe Mr. DeWald intended to speed up 9 the inspections if you were to do the same amount of 10 research _whether you did it before or whether you did it 11 after?
12 A Not always would research be required. Some hangers
[}
13 were not altered f rom their original design.
14 I would say the majority of them were not altered 15 from their original design.
16 0 Well, how would you know that they were altered if you l 17 didn't do your research to begin with?
i i 18 A If you would go to the field and then the 19 field-installed condition does not match what the design 20 documents indicate.
21 For an example, one of the internal dimensions 22 would be different than what was indicated or it would 23 be in a different location than what would be indicated l
24 on your plan drawing.
() 25 0 And you' re saying, then, that research wouldn' t be Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 needed with regard to the ones in which the 2 configurations were the same in the field as in the l 3 original drawings; is that it?
4 A That's correct.
- 5 0 Well, then, why do you believe that you should do 6 research before you go out to the field on those 7 particular installations?
i 8 A At the time that Mr. DeWald made that statement, I was
)
9 involved in the ICR-NCR backlog program, where it was 10 very common for an ECN or an FCR to alter the existing 11 design to pretty much what was in the field.
12 That's how -- one of the reasons that -- that
{) 13 really didn'c apply to me, what Mr. DeWald was trying to 14 implement.
l 15 Q I'm not sure I understand that answer.
16 Would you know about the NCR or ICR without doing 17 your research beforehand if you just went out to the l 18 field?
l 19 A Yes, your Honor. ,
20 I would also receive normal installations; "This is l
- 21 an installation that was put in here, and we need to go 22 do this inspection." The installation report may be a i
- 23 year and a half, two years old.
24 At the same time, I'm doing ICR's and NCR's in the l
() 25 same location or general area of the building, so those Sonntag Reporting Service, _ Ltd.
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1 I would be aware of.
2 However, the installation reports -- I would have 3 no idea what other documents might alter it. Now, let l
4 me --
5 Q Let me ask you this: Would there be any saving ia 6 research time by adopting Mr. DeWald's approach rather- -
7 than the approach that you used?
8 A For the general run of in-process daily inspections, 9 yes, sir, it would.
10 Q And why would you -- and I take it this would be a 11 legitimate saving of research, because research wouldn't 12 turn anything up on the matters that didn't require that
[
13 additional research; isn't that correct?
14 A That's nearly always correct on current installations.
15 Q Well, what's not correct about it with regard to prior 16 installations?
I 17 A The prior installations perhaps are a year, year and a 18 half, two years old, due to their early installation, or 19 nearly, I would say, one-third, 20 percent of the time, 20 would be altered in some manner or else they would have 21 some other document for clearance. They'd add a pan run 22 or delete a pan run because of interf erences or for 1
23 unknown reasons to us. It was common f or that to 24 happen.
() 25 The distance f rom where we could do our research to Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. l Geneva, 1111nvia 6G134 (312) 232-0262 l
6906 1 the place where the location was, just on the easiest 2 access, 401 elevation, I would say is approximately an i
3 eighth of a mile. That's just to get to the building.
i 4 From there it's either upstairs or downstairs.
1 5 Then it's like a jungle gym, and you crawl through 6 things to get to places, to wherever you' re going. Not 7 always is getting to where you' re going to do the 8 inspection easy.
9 To get there and do your inspection and only to 10 find out that it's not what was originally intended, 11 pack up all your material, your specifications, your 12 drawings that you've got all laid out so you can do the
{) 13 inspection -- pack this all back up, put it back 14 together and go back into the office -- you're literally l 15 starting f rom scratch.
16 0 Let me ask you: How did you believe that Mr. DeWald
, 17 intended to save time if what you've just told us 18 indicates that you don't save time in any inspection but 19 that in some of them you take a lot more time because 20 you go out to the field and then have to come back and 21 ' redo your research?
22 In what instance, in what manner, would there be
! 23 any time saved?
4 24 A Let me try this again.
() 25 I'm dealing with old ICR's, NCR's and older Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd._
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) I 1 inspection reports. That's not current work. It's --
2 it's something that's been there awhile.
- 3 Q Yes.
I j 4 A It could have been altered. There could be documents on 5 it. That hanger might not even exist out there anymore.
6 On the other hand, in the other groups --
7 terminations, CEA's, other types of inspections --
8 they' re pretty much current; within, say, a month, two 9 months, 90 days. There's no reason to alter these 10 things. They' re good the way they are. There's no 11 documents to research on these things. That's what he's
{) 12 13 pointing out.
If the - "Onless there's something wrong with it, 14 don't be doing the research on it," and he was 15 addressing everyone there. So he's including all groups 16 of inspectors: terminativns, CEA's, current work.
17 But when you get into the backlog group like one of 18 the people that I was dealing -- you know, I was 4
19 J.wolved in the backlog work. These things have ICR's 20 and :R's written against them with ECN's and FCR's, and 21 there's a good chance that those are superseded by even
\
22 more current FCR's and ECN's. 1 23 Q So you' re saying that with the mix of kinds of work, i 24 that you had suggested in the vast majority of cases you
() 25 would have to do research on those installations anyway; l
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1 and you might as well do it before you went out in the 2 field; is that so?
l I A I wouldn't say the vast majority that I was dealing 4 with, but I would say there was a substantial number of 5 it -- anywhere f rom 20 percent to one-third -- that 6 would have documents that would alter the hanger or your i
7 inspection criteria.
8 0 And for other inspections it would be less than that 9 one-third or so?
) 10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q So Mr. DeWald's system might be beneficial to those 12 inspectors because for them the vast majority of
[)
13 installations wouldn't require research, and there was 14 no point to their doing research in the first place --
15 A Yes, sir.
16 0 -- is that so?
i l 17 Well, I believe you brought up Mr. DeWald's
! 18 approach, in the context of management attitude, within 19 three months or so of your going to the NRC; is that 20 correct?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q Well, how did Mr. DeWald's approach -- in what -- what i
23 did Mr. DeWald's approach signify with regard to 24 management's attitude that you thought was
( 25 objectionable?
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1 A Mostly I would say it would be a lack of communication.
2 Mr. DeWald would -- is a very quiet type of l l
3 manager. I've never gone to him and had any -- where he 4 refused to help me do anything or reply to me in any ,
5 manner, but he was not an expressive type of man.
6 When Mr. Marino came to the offices and said, 7 "Well, we're going to train all of these inspectors, and 8 we' re going to do these things for you," when these
! 9 promises, you know, were not fulfilled, Mr. DeWald had 10 no comment on why these things weren't done or why these 11 promises weren't fulfilled or why the training for individuals that were expecting training was not given.
{} 12 13 Q Okay.
I 14 So in other words, Mr. DeWald was somewhat 15 inaccessible to you; is that it?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q Even though he was there, it was difficult to approach 18 him?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 He was not the sort of man who would come by and 21 say, " Good morning." He'd walk right past you and never 22 speak to you.
I 23 Q Okay.
24 Now, when you discuss Mr. DeWald's approach, it ;
() 25 wasn't really his approach that disturbed you -- that Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
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1 is, the approach with the research being done af terwards 2 rather than before -- it was the f act that you had a 3 particular problem with your six of work where it 4 wouldn't work out to your benefit to do it that way and 5 you couldn't approach him about it?
i 6 Is that basically what your dissatisfaction was?
7 A I didn' t see a need to approach Mr. DeWald.
8 He always gave me the impression that he was a busy 9 person and that to approach him, you know, was really I
10 impinging upon his time unless it was extremely 11 important.
12 I didn't consider my app 1~ication of when research
[}
13 should be done to be an important -- important matter.
14 Q That is, important for him, though it was important for I 15 your is that it?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q Now, I think you indicated that with regard to Mr.
18 Marino's talks, that you didn' t find them in any way to 19 be pressure on you or intimidating.
20 I'm not sure exactly what phrase was used there.
. 21 A Mr. Marino's?
22 No. I don't recall Mr. Marino ever making any 23 intimidating or harassing threats to anyone.
24 Q Okay.
! ( 25 I'm not sure. Mr. Gallo did ask you about it, and i
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O 1 I thought that you indicated that his talks didn't have 2 any impression on -- didn't leave any impression on you
$ that would be construed as pressure.
3 f
4 Did you give that answer or am I just recollecting 5 improperly here? ,
6 A I don't remember Mr. Marino giving pressure to anyone, 7 either individually or as a group, to my knowledge.
8 Q Oh, okay.
9 Going on to Mr. Saklak, I believe you indicated 10 that you didn't find his manner at all intimidating to 11 you; is that correct?
12 A He had an intimidating manner, but you' re correct: It
[} ,
i 13 was not intimidating to me. I meet individuals like
, 14 that head on.
15 Q Pardon?
16 A I seet individuals that have this rough, tough attitude l
17 toward their people that work for them -- I try to meet 18 those people head on and try to establish our own ground 19 rules.
20 Q Okay.
21 Now, Mr. Saklak was a pretty large person i 22 physically, wasn' t he?
i l 23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q And you' re not a small person yourself; isn' t that O 25 c-rece2 i
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1 You' re above average in height and -- I believe; 2 I'm not sure.
3 Does your physical appearance have anything to do, i
4 do you believe, with Mr. Saklak's approach to you, as l 5 opposed to anyone else?
i' 6 A I never thought of it that way. I couldn't -- I 7 couldn't say. I don' t know.
4 8 Q Okay.
9 We've had some indications that perhaps Mr. Saklak 10 was physically intimidating to some people, but not to i 11 other people who were perhaps bigger than Mr. Saklak.
12 I don't -- but you have no impression one way or
}
13 the other, and I don't want to have you speculate on the 14 basis of anything that I say.
15 Is that correct; you don't have any impression that f 16 way?
17 A If there's a difference between the size of people that i 18 Mr. Saklak tried to intimidate, that's a new twist to
) 19 me.
! 20 Q Fine. I didn't mean to suggest that, then.
i 21 A Okay.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I have no further questions.
1 23 Mr. Guild, you can cross-examine.
! 24 MR. GUILD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
( 25 Good af ternoon, Mr. Bowman.
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1 CROSS EXAMINATIdN 2 BY MR. GUILD:
1
, 3 Q Let's talk a little bit about this question of Mr.
4 DeWald and his instructions with regard to research by 5 inspectors.
6 Now, as I understand it, a Quality Control 7 Inspector inspects a certain field installation to a set 8 of objective acceptance criteria --
9 A Correct.
10 0 -- is that a correct understanding?
l 11 Those objective acceptance criteria are contained 12 in procedures and specifications and drawings for the
)
13 particular installation in the field?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 0 And if you' re talking about a weld or a hanger 16 configuration, those objective acceptance criteria 17 include current design drawings, do they not?
i 18 A Yes, sir.
l l
19 Q And when you go out and look at something in the field, 20 you inspect to those current acceptance criteria; 21 namely, the current design drawings?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q Now, in order to determine that you've got current I
24 acceptance criteria, you have to do some research to
() 25 assure yourself that you've got the current design Sonntag Reporting Servicer,Ltd.
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l drawings which represent the current acceptance 2 criteria?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q Okay.
5 Sometimes research is quick, and sometimes research 6 is not so quick; but you've got to do research before 7 you go out in the field anyway, don't you?
8 A In some limited form, it's necessary on every hanger.
9 Q Okay.
10 When you were doing your inspections to close out 1
11 old ICR's and NCR's, I understand your testimony to be 12 that research in that circumstance was relatively more 13 complex than in others?
- 14 A Sometimes it was, yes, sir.
i 15 Q Okay.
16 Now, is it correct to say that when you got an ICR l 17 to close out or an old NCR to close out, that the 18 disposition on the ICR or the NCR for an old ICR or NCR 19 might itself not reflect the then-current, current at 20 the time you were assigned the inspection -- the 21 then-current acceptance criteria?
22 A You're losing me.
23 Q Okay. Let me try it again.
24 You've got an ICR or NCR to close out, and the ICR l
() 25 or NCR, during the time you were doing this work, at l
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O 1 times was very old?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q All right.
4 The ICR or NCR had a disposition on it, and let's 5 say the disposition was to take some kind of action with
- 6 respect to the component in the field; I'll just call it I
l 7 " rework," but maybe some kind of work in the field on i 8 that component; correct?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q All right.
11 And when you took the ICR or the NCR out that was 12 old, unless you did s'ome further research, all you could 13 inspect to is the disposition that was on the face of 14 that ICR or NCR; right?
! 15 A Other than what could be called "stiandard research,"
16 that's correct.
i 17 0 All right.
18 Well, other than the standard research, it would be l 19 important to you, among other things, to determine 20 whether or not, in the interim since the ICR or the NCR 21 was dispositioned or signed off -- let me rephrase that.
22 When you were doing this program with the old ICR's l 23 and NCR's, it would be important to you, before you went 24 into the field, to determine whether or not Engineering
() 25 Change Notices, ECN's, or Field Change Requests, FCR's, l
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O 1 had been issued on that component subsequent to the 2 completion of the ICR or the NCR, the writeup?
3 A Basically that's true, yes.
4 0 And that's part of the research that you had to do that 5 was in some cases unusual in this particular program?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 0 All right.
8 Because those ECN's and FCR's might alter the 9 acceptance criteria of the specific camponent that you 10 were going to look at?
11 A Yes, sir.
If you didn't do the research in advance of going to the
{) 12 13 0
field in that project, you might in some cases look at 14 the installation, confirm that the written disposition 15 on the ICR or NCR, in fact, reflected the field-16 condition that you observed but not be aware that an ECN
- 17 or an FCR had altered the then-current design l 18 requirements f or that installation?
19 A That's a possibility, yes.
20 0 And in that case, you would look at the ICR or the NCR, l 21 look at the component in the field, say, "It looks okay i 22 per the ICR or NCR," all right; and that ICR or NCR f 23 would then be closed on the basis of your field 24 inspection; correct?
( 25 A It's possible, yes, sir.
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()
, 1 Q All right.
2 It was possible, then, during that time that the l 3 field installation would be deemed finally acceptable per the field inspection of the ICR or NCR, and yet 1
4 5 there had been an intervening Engineering Change Notice 6 or Field Change Request that had not been taken into
. 7 account in the actual field installation?
a 8 A What you' re saying -- what you' re saying is that the end
! 9 of all this ICR with the approved disposition -- it is
]
10 possible for the inspector to go out there with the 11 disposition of the ICR and look at that hanger and say, 12 "Yes, that hanger is completer" and sign it off?
(])
j 13 Q Right.
14 A If there was another document, an ECN or an FCR -- that j
15 work had not yet been done; that would require rework --
16 this would require an additional inspection.
17 0 All right.
18 A However, the inspector signing off that ICR without 19 knowing this other document was'in existence -- he 20 should not have signed off that ICR, and that's a l 21 procedure violation.
I 22 Q Right.
That was my objection to the work that I was doing in 23 A 24 that time f rame, why I wanted to do my research before I
( 25 went cut.
4 i
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l Q All right, sir.
2 Someone looking at the closed-out ICR or NCR that j 3 you confirmed reflected the field condition might assume i l
! 4 that that component was complete and ready for turnover, l
\
5 in effect?
6 A By looking at that ICR, yes.
7 Q All right.
8 But yet there's this FCR or ECN floating around 9 that someone might just never put together with the ICR 10 and make the subsequent change in the field called for 11 by the design change?
12 A I believe the engineering group or the -- or -- yeah, it
[}
13 would be the engineering group or S & L group. These 14 things would be eventually tracked down and found out 15 whether or not this component had been altered to the j 16 state that they wanted them per the most recent ECN or 17 FCR.
l
- 18 They don't just get lost. They just don' t go 19 falling away.
20 0 Hopefully?
21 A Yes, hopefully.
! 22 Those things will eventually be tracked.
I 23 0 Again, hopefully?
i 24 A Eventually the ICR, if we're looking at it through the
(} 25 long perspective, was probably closed out incorrectly Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 due to this other document being --
2 0 Okay.
3 And hopefully, someone is going to match up all 4 this paperwork and, hopefully, someone somewhere down 5 the line is going to recognize that there is yet an 6 unperformed piece of fieldwork called for by the design 7 change, the ECN or whatever and, hopefully, it will be 4
8 taken care of?
9 A Before any of those will be cloued, they also have to 10 sign off for field verification for engineering, so 11 eventually one engineer is going *o have to go out there 12 and look at it.
[]}
13 0 And I gather that it was important to you, since you 14 were putting your name on these ICR's and NCR's as 15 dispositioned appropriately per the field-observed 16 condition, that your acceptance of thoss field 17 conditions not be taken to reflect an acceptance to 18 design documents that you hadn't reviewed?
19 A That's basically correct.
2G Q Now, let's take a different situation, and that is aside 21 from the program that you were working on for old ICR's 22 or NCR's. Someone, during the normal course of a weld 23 or configuration inspection, is sent to the field.
24 I understand that an inspector under those l l 25 circumstances would be given an installation report to l
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1 work from?
2 A Yes, sir.
i 3 0 Now, do I understand correctly that that installation l 4 report, if things are all working according to the 5 program, should identify whether or not there is an open 6 ECN or FCR for that particular installation?
7 A It doesn' t necessarily have to be open. It could be 8 closed, sir.
9 0 I don't mean to say "open." I probably misspoke.
10 Whether there is a relevant ECN or FCR for that 11 particular component?
12 A Yes, sir.
[}
13 Q And if it noted the existence of an ECN or FCR, it would 14 give you a number; and that would be the basis of the 15 inspector going to that accument and checking it before 16 he went to the field?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q But that didn't happen in all cases, did it, that the 19 installation report on its face lists the relevant ECN's 20 or FCR's?
21 A No. There have been cases that you've suggested, where 22 engineering or FCR documents were not -- it's happened.
23 MR. GUILD: Can we get you some water?
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: It's time for a recess soon',
( 25 so would you prefer it now, Mr. Guild?
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1 MR. GUILD: If you'll bear with me a few more 1
2 minutes, we'll finish this topic. l l
3 THE WITNESS: Sure.
4 BY MR. GUILD:
5 0 One piece of research that a conscientious QC Inspector, 6 doing weld and configuration inspections, might perform 7 when, in the normal course, given an installation report 8 to inspect, might include determining whether or not 9 there is an outstanding ECN or FCR for that particular 10 installation, though not listed on the installation 11 repor t? ,
{} 12 A True.
All right.
13 Q 14 And how would one go about doing that research?
15 A You want a detailed breakdown?
16 Q How about just a short version of how you do it?
17 Outline it, maybe.
18 A Usually on the back of the plan drawings, there would be 19 a list of FCR's and ECN's that are still open against 20 some hanger on that drawing. You would start by going 21 through those.
22 0 Okay, 23 And that's a piece of research that an inspector 24 that wanted to inspect a field installation to current 25 acceptance criteria might choose to do as a matter of Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd._
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0 1 conscientiousness?
2 A Yes, sir. I 1
' I a Q And would it, in your opinion, be a proper performance 4 of that inspector's duties to insist that that research 5 be done before you go out to the field to look at the 6 field installation?
7 A Given the circumstances that I've described earlier 8 through che ICR-NCR program, yes, I think it would be 9 reasonable.
10 0 Well, how about other than in that particular program?
11 Other than under your special ICR-NCR program, if
{} 12 13 you are in a particular part of the plant where, based on your past experience, you have reason to believe that 14 there have been design changes made, given the nature of 15 the component or the nature of the location, yet the 16 installation report reflects no ECN or FCR for that 17 component but maybe you've done work in that same area le recently -- you think maybe there should be one or is 19 one -- would it be consistent, in your opinion, within 20 proper performance of an inspector's duties, to do the 21 research before you go out to the field to find that 22 question out -- answer that question?
23 A That's an awfully long question for a "yes" or "no."
24 Q Okay. I'm asking for your opinion, Mr. Bowman. I'm not
() 25 asking you to answer "yes" or "no."
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1 A If it's current work, I would say that it's not -- it's 2 not to the -- it's not really required for current 3 installations.
4 Usually the foreman that installed the hanger is in 5 the area anyway; and if you go to inspect a hanger that 6 he installed and there's some alterment to the design 7 drawings, generally this foreman, if you go to him, will 8 be able to provide you with a copy of the ECN or the FCR 9 or some other document that alters that particular 10 hanger.
11 Q Okay.
12 I gather from your answer that you are supposing
() 13 the circumstance where you' re doing an in-process 14 inspection?
15 A Not in-process per se that they' re still building the 16 hanger --
17 0 Yes.
18 A -- but --
19 Q You' re following the craf t?
20 A Current installations, yes.
21 0 Where the craf t is actually still there?
22 A Yes, sir.
l 23 Q But let's take the other case, where it's not your 24 special old NCR-ICR program that you worked on and it's
() 25 not a present-day field inspection where the craf t is in l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. I
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O 1 the immediate area and it's a very current installation, 2 but it's an individual component -- you' re doing a weld 3 inspection or a configuration inspection.
4 Again let's suppose the circumstance where, because 5 of recent work in the area, you know as an inspector
! 6 that there's been design changes there.
7 In that circumstance, in your opinion, would it be 8 proper for an inspector to insist that research be done 9 before you go to the field?
10 A Yes, he could do it before he went, or he could go out 11 there and, if he found something wrong, come back.
12 But I believe it would be better to do the research C:) 13 before going to do the inspection.
14 Q Okay.
i 15 Now, finally on this point, if you don' t do the 16 research in advance -- and let's take again the last 17 circumstance that I suppoced; that. is, you' re not doing i
18 the special old ICR and NCR project and you' re not doing 19 a current-day in-process, but you're doing at some point j 20 in the past an individual component weld or.
21 configuration, and you don't do the research in advance.
22 You simply take the inspection report -- the 23 installation report -- excuse me -- and you go to the 24 field and you look at it, and the details specified on 25
(]) the installation report appear to match the l
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1 field-observed condit. ton.
2 Under those circumstances you would conclude that )
3 no research is, therefore, required because it looks 4 acceptable per the original design specification.
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Okay.
7 Now, here is what I'm trying to understand: What's 8 to say in that circumstance that, in fact, the 9 installation report and the field condition, while they 10 look the same, don't reflect the actual acceptance 11 criteria that you' re supposed to be inspecting to?
12 Let's just suppose this -- and tell me if I'm off
- O 13 base on this.
14 Let's say you've got an installation report and it l
15 say s, " Inspect to Detail A," and Detail A is a certain 16 kind of weld joint. You go out and see a Detail A 17 there. You say, "Okay. It must be all right."
l 18 But there's been an intervening design change. The I
19 design change has been made on the paper, but no one 20 ever got around to actually making the change on the 21 installation, all right?
22 But you don't know that there's either been a 23 change in the drawing or design requirements or a 24 failure to implement that change in the actual field,
() 25 and all you do is inspect to an old, outdated design Sonntag Reporting Service,.Ltd.
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1 requirement, an old outdated field condition. You say, 2 "They match up. They must be okay. Accept"; no 3 research.
- 4 Now, isn't that something that's possible that 5 could occur?
6 A From the standpoint of just the installation report and 7 the inspector's inspection, that's true. The man could 8 -- or the inspector could accept that component.
9 When you bring in your FCR or your ECN, that 10 introduces a new spectrum to it, whereas there are other 11 people that have to agree that yes, these things are
, 12 done.
O 13 Basically there's a reason for these things to be 4
14 made --
15 Q Right.
16 A -- the ECN's or something like this.
17 If it's an interference with a pipe or some sort of 18 conflict with some other type of structural member, the 19 people that are installing this structural member, until 20 that hanger is altered, can't put theirs in. Those 21 people are going to say, " Hey, come on. Get your act 22 together."
23 On the f ront page of these ECN's and FCR's, there's 24 various locations for engineering groups to go out to
() 25 check and make sure these things get done. It's a Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 double-check system. j 2 My only concern with those documents is that we 3 don' t close out ECN's or FCR's currently, thinking we' re
. l 4 using current documents or correct documents.
5 If we don' t have that inf ormation, in my opinion, 6 it's a procedure violation.
7 0 If I understand your answer correctly, there are other 8 checks in place that you would assume, aside f rom the QC 9 Inspector verifying what the current acceptance criteria 10 -
are, will ultimately catch the f ailure to implement the I
11 ECN or FCR in the field?
12 A Yes, sir, other than the f act that the craf t just may O 13 have it in their "in" basket or " work to do" basket and 14 just haven' t gotten around to doing it yet.
l 15 Q Okay.
16 But again that proper outcome is dependent on 17 somebody else taking appropriate action at an l 18 appropriate time?
19 A In this case, yes, that's true.
20 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, this would be an 21 appropriate time for a break. ;
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All right. We'll take 10 23 minutes.
24 (WHEREU PON, a recess was had, after which O 25 ehe proceedings were resumed as fo11 ws=>
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We're back in session.
2 Just as a point of information, Judge Cole has 3 found in his notes that Mr. DeWald began with the 4 company in November of 1980, according to his testimony.
5 Okay. Mr. Guild, continue.
6 MR. GUILD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
7 BY MR. GUILD:
8 Q Mr. Bowman, let's turn to the question of Mr. DeWald and ,
9 his inspection report and inspection practices.
10 How did you come to get the privilege of being 11 assigned to search for Mr. DeWald's inspection report?
12 A I"have no idea.
O 13 Q All right.
, 14 A I think it's -- this is purely supposition on my part.
I' 15 I believe it was because other inspectors in 16 supervision believe that I'm a very thorough person in 17 that respect for this research, things along that line.
18 0 You're known generally for your care in doing research, 19 document research?
20 A Yes, sir.
l
- 21 Q It got you in some trouble in the past, but in this case 22 -- it may have gotten you in some trouble in this case.
23 It got you the job of looking for Mr. DeWald's 24 papers?
() 25 A Yes, sir.
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1 Q As the Chairman just pointed out, my recollection f rom 2 the record is that Mr. DeWald was a Level II Weld l
3 Inspector during an earlier period than the dates that )
4 you recalled a moment ago, in that it was in the '80 '81 5 time f rame.
1 6 Let me show you a document that's been received in 7 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit 19, and it's a PTL 8 transmittal cover sheet transmitting a Form 19. The 9 Form 19 has Mr. DeWald's signature on it.
10 (Indicating.)
i 11 A Yes, sir, it does.
12 Q All right,
()
i
- 13 And it reflects an inspection that was dated -- an 14 inspection report dated 3/12/81.
15 Do you recall ever having seen that document 16 before?
17 A Yes, sir, I do.
18 Q And what were the circumstances in which you saw that 19 document?
20 A It was during the search for another document of Mr.
21 DeWald's for a greater number of welds, that was 22 assigned to me by Mr. Simile.
23 Q Okay.
24 Was it within the last couple weeks when you were 25 given this task --
(])
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1 A fes, sir.
2 0 -- by Mr. Simile?
j 3 And had you seen this document, the 551-weld l
l 4 inspection report, prior to this research project?
5 A Not that I recall.
6 Q All right.
7 Now, Mr. Bowman, you' re looking at the document
- 8 that's before you, and that's the 551-weld inspection i 9 report. You saw this during your research.
10 Was this the document that you saw that Mr. Coss 11 showed you that had -- that you' re recalling now had 12 more than 1,100 welds on it?
I O 13 A This may sound like a contradiction, but I'm beginning 14 to doubt my own testimony as to seeing the 1,100-weld i
15 inspection checklist by Mr. DeWald.
16 I believe I distinctly remember seeing it and 17 viewing the document. However, the research that I've 18 done I believe should have indicated or revealed the 19 document that we were looking for.
20 I don't believe that this is the document that I 21 saw that indicated 1,100 welds, though.
22 0 Okay. ,
23 Now, am I correct in stating that you didn't first 24 learn of the one-thousand-plus welds by Mr. DeWald when l () 25 Mr. Coss showed you the piece of paper?
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1 Bad you heard previously that Mr. DeWald had 2 performed such an inspection, before you actually saw 3 the paper?
4 A Not to my recollection, no.
5 Q You don't recall ever having heard shoptalk or rumor 6 discussed among the inspectors that Mr. DeWald, in his 7 previous work, had done more than 1,000 welds on a 8 single report?
9 A No, sir. It was talked about after I had seen the 10 document from Mr. Coss, but I don't recall shoptalk 11 about it.
12 Q Okay.
13 And on those -- I know dates are probably some thin 14 ice to get into, but you became an inspector in late 15 '83?
16 A December of '83.
17 0 I'm sorry?
18 A December of '83.
19 Q Af ter that point, then, you saw Mr. Coss' -- the )
i 20 document Mr. Coss showed you.
21 Can you recall how long you had been on the job, 22 approximately, before you saw the DeWald 1,100-weld 23 report? l 24 A I believe it was in 1984 that I saw that report, but
() 25 don't time me any closer than that.
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l 1 Q Okay, sometime in '84.
2 And the report that you saw -- was it the subject 3 of discussion between you and other inspectors af ter you 4 physically saw the document?
5 A I may have commented on it, but I don' t really recall 6 sitting down and discussing it, although I did discuss 7 it with Mr. Seese at a later date.
8 Q And when did you have that discussion with Mr. Seese?
9 A (No response.)
10 Q How much later?
11 A I believe it was in 1985 scmetime. It might have been 12 earlier this year.
O 13 You know how I am about dates: not very good.
14 Q And what was the substance of your conversation with Mr.
15 Seese on the subject?
16 A It was -- I asked him, you know, how Irv could have done 17 this large number of welds, and he indicated that it was l
18 his belief that these inspections were an accumulation 19 of two to three days of inspections and then were just 20 put on one report -- or perhaps even a week's time.
21 Q Of course, Mr. Seese himself was not physically present 22 doing weld inspections when Mr. DeWald did his weld 23 inspection work in the ' 80 '81 time f rame?
24 A I don' t believe he was, sir.
l () 25 Q Okay.
l l
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1 So he was exercising supposition himself, was he 2 not?
3 A I believe this was -- Mr. Seese got this information l 4 from conversations with Mr. DeWald.
5 Q Rather than his personal knowledge; rather than his, 6 Seese's, personal knowledge?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q Okay.
9 And is that the source of information you referred 10 to earlier in your testimony that led you to understand 11 later in time that instead of being the work of one day, 12 such inspection reports with large numbers of welds --
2 13 in this case, Mr. DeWald's 1,100 -- might have been done 14 over a period of days?
15 A Yes, sir.
16 Q There's also been testimony that under a program at 17 Comstock of trying to -- perhaps the quality control 18 document review program or some other program designed 19 to refile documents, is the word I'm looking for -- that l
20 old grid inspection reports were customarily 21 photocopied, and photocopies of the grid report would go 22 into an individual file for each hanger that was 23 documented on that single grid report.
24 Am I reciting, in substance, a program that you' re
() 25 familiar with?
l I
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 0 Okay.
3 If in the case of the Intervenors' exhibit before
'4 you, the 19, there were 551 welds but, let's say -- I' m 5 not going to count them -- but, let's say, there are 25 6 hangers, do I understand correctly, then, that Mr.
7 DeWald's Form 19 would be copied at least as many times 8 as there are hangers on this report and a single copy of 9 that checklist would go into the file for each one of 10 those hangers? 1 11 A Yes, sir.
12 Q And theref ore, if 25 was the right number -- and it's 13 not; I just picked that number out of the air -- there 14 would be 25 copies of Mr. DeWald's 551-weld inspection 15 report?
16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q And if, let's say, there were 100 hangers on an ,
18 inspection report documenting 1,100 or more welds total, l 19 there would be 100 copies of that inspection report; 20 again, one for each of the hanger packages?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q And is those series of facts an additional reason why l 23 you expected that you would have encountered Mr.
24 DeWald's 1,100-weld inspection checklist in the course
() 25 of doing the document review that you've described?
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1 A Yes, sir.
2 O Recause there's more than one copy of it; there's 3 multiple copies of it?
l i
4 A Exactly.
5 Q Have you considered any other possible explanations, 6 given your knowledge of Comstock document maintenance, 7, document procedures -- any other possible explanations, 8 aside f rom just the f act that this document didn' t 9 exist, the DeWald 1,100-weld checklist, that would 10 account for your inability thus f ar to have identified 11 it in your research?
12 A I've speculated on it, but that would be just what it O 13 is: a speculation.
14 Q Well, informed speculation, but would you share with the 15 Board and the parties what possible alternatives have
- 16 occurred to you in your work?
17 MR. GALLO: Objection to the characterization 18 " informed speculation"; no foundation.
19 The witness hasn' t explained whether his 20 speculation is informed or not.
21 MR. GUILD: Well, I suppose that it's 22 informed on the basis of having done the research, and 23 I'd ask that the witness answer the question as asked.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, whatever the
() 25 characterization, the witness can only answer with Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 regard to what he may have -- what he may suspect or all 2 the possibilities.
i 3 BOARD EXAMINATION i I
4 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
5 Q Could you just tell us what the possibilities are that l
6 occurred to you --
7 MR. GUILD: Yes.
8 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
l 9 Q -- with regar'd to the reports being missing -- or not 10 being found?
11 A I'll try to keep this in its simplest form.
12 I see there's three possibilities:
13 No.1 is that the checklist in question never 14 existed and that it may have been a joke by someone who 15 wished to discredit or perhaps embarrass Mr. DeWcid.
16 The second possibility that I see is that the 17 document did actually exist and it was completely 18 eradicated f rom the vault.
19 The third possibility th&t I see is maybe I was 20 mistaken in the number of welds that were on the 21 original checklist that I viewed whenever it was shown l
22 to me by Mr. Coss.
23 Q Bow about a fourth possibility: that you just haven' t 24 found it yet?
l f
() 25 A As I'm not completed with -- with the remote possibility l
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1 that it was overlooked or I've missed it and that's 2 still to be done through the PTL reports, that is also a 3 possibility.
4 Q I see.
5 You say that's remote because there would be so 6 many copies that you should have found it, considering 7 the number of welds?
8 There would be a certain number of installations at 9 least and, therefore, you would have that many copies?
10 Is that it?
11 A Yes, sir. It would be like having 100 copies of Errol 12 Flynn walking around. He would be bound to be noticed.
O 13 (Laughter.)
14 MR. GUILD: Or 100 copies of Dracula floating 15 around is bound to be noticed.
16 (Laughter.)
17 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
18 0 Well, now, sir, you've mentioned that you believed that 19 Mr. DeWald started work in 1982 or 1983, although you 20 didn't limit your search with regard to each 21 installation as far as dates go.
22 But didn't you consider that certain installations 23 were made in 1982 and '83 and neglect to consider 24 installations for periods before that?
() 25 Is that a possibility?
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1 A The time period that we were basically interested in was 2 late '82 and 1983 installations, during that time 3 period.
4 But anytime any drawing came under suspicion or 5 either it was a likely candidate to contain welds of 6 this nature, which we were looking at -- cable pan 7 welds, cable pan weld-downs -- in this time f rame 8 whatsoever, the entire drawing was reviewed irregardless 9 of the date of the work done or the inspection done.
10 So this covers the time period f rom 1979 up to the 11 current date.
12 If there is -- if anyone suggests any other O 13 drawings or any other places that might be a likely 14 candidate, I will certainly entertain them and do the 15 research for those.
16 CROSS EXAMINATION l
17 (Continued) 18 BY MR. GUILD:
! 19 Q Let me pose a couple of other alternatives.
20 Is it possible, in your opinion, Mr. Bowman, that 21 Mr. DeWald -- Mr. DeWald's early inspection work was all 22 redone and that someone else rechecked all these 23 installations and that Mr. DeWald's early checklist in 24 this particular regard, the 1,100-weld checklist, was
() 25 simply destroyed?
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1 A That is a possibility, but I consider that also remote.
2 Q Can you explain why?
3 A I don' t believe that the character of the individuals, 4 including Mr. DeWald, is such that they would allow 5 something of that nature to happen.
6 0 You don't -- your personal belief is that they would not 7 have destroyed these documents?
8 A No, sir.
9 Q Okay.
10 I guess I wasn' t trying -- I wasn' t implying 11 wrongfulness in doing that.
12 I was asking whether, in your opinion, as part of 13 the program, it was possible that Mr. DeWald or others 14 said, "Well, listen. I've got this one-thousand-plus-15 weld inspection report. I'm going.to get somebody to go 16 out and look at those hangers," and Mr. DeWald's 17 checklist had been replaced with a reinspection 18 checklist; and his original checklist, no longer needed 19 to verify the quality of the work, has been torn up and 20 redone.
21 A I don' t believe that's the case.
22 Q That's a different case than the one you answered a 23 moment ago, I believe.
24 Why not?
() 25 A Because of the character of these individuals. I just Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
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O 1 can't see them doing that. I can't see a conspiracy 2 that large.
3 BOARD EXAMINATION 4 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN l
5 Q Excuse me.
6 Would it be improper, once there's a reinspection 7 of the installations, to discard the old inspection 8 reports?
9 A Yes, sir. That would be a procedure violation.
10 0 Oh, okay. The old reports ought to stay in the file 11 anyway; is that it?
12 A Yes, sir. The history of the hanger is complete and 13 never discarded even if the hanger is completely 14 removed.
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild.
16 CROSS EXAMINATION 17 (Continued.)
18 BY MR. GUILD 19 Q Mr. Bowman, are you familiar with the Comstock Quality 20 Control Inspector Reinspection Program?
21 A I am aware of it. I won't say familiar.
22 Q Well, I am looking at Intervenors' Exhibit 20. It's an 23 NCR 1827, February 20, '84, signed by Mr. Seese.
24 I will represent to you that the testimony reflects
() 25 that this was an early version of what has since been l !
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. i ueneva, 1111nois culde
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6941 1 called the QC IRP, early version of review of past 2 inspection work by early Comstock inspectors.
3 Let me just ask you if you have ever seen that 4 document before. It's a multi-page document.
5 A I may have seen it but I don't recall reviewing it to 6 any great extent.
7 Q In the process of searching for Mr. DeWald's 8 thousand-weld checklist, did you look to see whether or 9 not Mr. DeWald's early inspection work was the subject 10 of the Quality Control Inspector Reinspection Program?
11 A No, sir, I did not.
12 Q If you accept the -- well, the document speaks for 13 itself, Mr. Chairman. Intervenors' Exhibit 20 does not 14 contain Mr. DeWald's name among those who were the 15 subject of that program.
16 Do you know whether or not Mr. DeWald should have 17 been included within the scope of that program as you 18 understand that program?
19 A No, sir, I do not.
20 Q You are aware, as you answered Mr. Gallo, that Mr. Rick 21 Martin was an early weld inspector?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q And I represent to you that the document does reflect 24 multi-page listings of deficient weld inspections
() 25 performed by Mr. Martin. ;
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1 Let's look at the first sort of alternative 2 supposition with regard to the welds, the DeWald weld 3 inspection report, and that is that it never existed, 4 that it may have been a joke.
1 5 Well, if it was a joke, Mr. Bowman, in carrying out )
6 the joke, someone would have had to have completed a 7 document that appeared to be an Irv DeWald Form 19 with l 8 the number eleven-hundred-plus on it.
9 That's what you saw; is that right?
10 A Yes, sir.
11 Q You saw it with Mr. DeWald's signature on it?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q Whether that document that you saw was, indeed, an 14 actual, official record of an Irving DeWald inspection, 15 you believed it to be at the time you saw it, didn't 16 you?
17 A Yes, sir.
18 Q And you believed it to be up until within the last month 19 when you performed this described research program?
20 A Yes, sir.
i 21 Q Would you agree that it was also common knowledge and 22 belief among other Comstock QC Inspectors that such a 23 document existed?
24 A Yes, sir.
() 25 Q And that it reflected that Mr. DeWald had, in fact, l
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V 1 performed such an inspection?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q Now, let me see if I can establish a couple of time 4 references for some of the work that you have described 5 to Mr. Gallo.
6 Do I understand correctly that you worked for Mr.
7 Saklak directly during a very limited period of time, 8 four to six weeks? .
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q And that was in late '84 or early '85, as best you 11 recall?
12 A Yes, sir.
13 Q After you were transferred out of that program, you went 14 to work in the backlog program associated with Mr.
15 Worthington and Mr. Walters; is that right?
i 16 A Yes, sir, I believe that's correct.
17 Q Your recollection, then, is that is the sequence, in any 18 event?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q Now, if I were to tell you -- and, in addition to 21 yourself in that backlog program, you worked with Danny i
22 Holly; is that right?
j 23 A Yes, sir.
24 Q And Mark Klatchko?
() 25 A Yes, sir, I believe he was one of them.
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1 Q And -- I am not certain. Was Dean Peterson also one 2 that you mentioned?
3 A Yes, sir, I believe Dean was in this, also.
4 I think there was about 30 inspectors that 5 initially started this review.
6 Q As part of that program, do you recall Mr. Peterson, 7 among others, being chided by supervision for not 8 producing enough inspections per day?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q Now, if I were to state that my recall is that there has 11 been previous testimony that that took place in the late 12 summer or early fall of '84, when that special program ,
13 took place, would that refresh your recollection about 14 when the second of these pieces of work happened?
15 A (No response.)
16 Q Could it have been the late summer or early fall of '84?
17 A It could have been, yes, sir.
18 Q Now, do you recall being one of the inspectors who was
- 19 asked by Mr. Seltmann to forgo cross-training during 20 about a month's period of time while that special 21 program was going on?
22 A Yes, sir, I was one of the inspectors.
23 Q Again, I will represent to you that my recall, anyway, 24 was that that was a memo in the fall of -- late summer,
() 25 fall of - '84. Mr. Seltmann sent a memo to the members Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltr'..
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i l 1 of that program.
2 Do you recall the memo?
3 A I don't recall the memo.but I recall his words.
4 Q You recall Mr. Seltmann saying at a meeting -- asking at 5 a meeting that you do this?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 0 What is the substance of what you recall Mr. Seltmann 8 saying?
9 A "Please give up your training so we can go ahead and get 10 this backlog cleaned up; and as soon as it's done, you 11 guys can resume training until you get your training
~
- 12 across the Board that was promised to you by Mr.
13 Marino."
i 14 Q The Marino promise took place in April of '847 15 A Yes, sir. I believe that was in the spring, yes, sir.
16 Q ,And that's when they changed the salary structure to the 17 50 cents an hour increment for additional certs?
18 A Yes, sir.
19 Q Of course, you gave up your training as Mr. Seltmann 20 urged?
21 A Yes, sir.
, 22 Q Yet, you didn't get your immediate cross-training as 23 promised, did you?
24 A No, sir.
() 25 Q It took you several months to get the cross-training Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 that you had deferred during the special program?
2 A Yes, sir.
1 3 Q But, eventually, you got it and, eventually, you were 4 able to cross-certify?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q Now, I am trying to establish time now, because we are 7 talking about fall of '84.
}
8 If your sequence is correct, your work for Mr.
9 Saklak would have been earlier -- it would have been in 10 the summer of '84 -- if you did Saklak work first and 4
11 then the backlog work second?
12 A Yes, sir, I believe that's true.
O 13 Q All right. Now, I am not trying to put words in your 14 mouth.
15 Does that refresh your recollection?
16 A The work with Mr. Saklak was such a brief time, it i
l 17 really doesn't -- you know, from the time period long 18 ago, it doesn't make that much impression on me as to l 19 what time period it was. I am sorry.
20 Q All right. Do you recall that the time period, whenever 21 it was -- and I will ask you to suppose that it was the l
22 summer ,of '84, unless you recall otherwise -- was it 23 during a time when there was a push to address a backlog 24 of inspections?
() 25 A Yes, sir. I believe it was conduit installations that Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. j Ueneva, 1111nois ou144 (312) 232-0262 ,
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1 Mr. Saklak was dealing with.
2 0 Was there a backlog of work in that area?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q You had not worked for Mr. Saklak before but you had 5 become aware of his reputation, had you not?
6 A Yes, sir.
7 Q And you were aware that he had the reputation that you 8 already described.
9 You were aware that he had a reputation for the 10 conduct that you have already described, and that was 11 that he was belligerent and loud and abusive towards 12 inspectors?
13 A Yes, sir.
14 Q And you anticipated, when you were assigned to work for 15 Mr. Saklak, that he wasn't going to treat you any 16 different from anybody else, at least unless you took 17 some action about it?
18 A That's the way I saw it.
19 0 Isn't it the case that, anticipating that from Mr.
20 Saklak, you decided to beard the lion, more or less, and 21 went in to see him in advance and, essentially, told him 22 what your position would be?
23 A I don't know if I approached him out of the blue.
~
24 It may have been over an inspection that I was l () 25 doing.
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1 Q Okay.
2 A And he disagreed with it; and I presented my -- more or 3 less I took the opportunity to present how I am going to 4 react.
5 Q So there was a specific circumstance that prompted you 6 to, essentially, take the bull by the horns and deal 7 with it?
8 A Yes, sir; but I don't recall the circumstances,of it.
9 Q All right. But, needless to say, in any event, 10 regardless of the specific inspection dispute involved 11 with specific circumstances, you, essentially, let Mr.
12 Saklak know that you weren't going to be bullied by him.
13 Is that the essence of what you said to him?
14 A Yes, sir.
15 Q You have already recounted the substance of what was 16 said to Mr. Gallo; and, I believe, you described Mr.
17 Saklak's response as chuckling and sort of letting you 18 understand that he had his other ways of taking care of 19 the problem?
20 A Uh-huh, yes, sir.
21 Q And shortly thereafter, he transferred you out?
22 A It was shortly thereafter I was no longer working for 23 Mr. Saklak.
24 Q Those are two facts: One fact is you confronted him;
() 25 the next fact is you were transferred t'o other work?
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- 1 A Yes, sir. ;
l 2 Q And you don't have any specific knowledge about one i
3 leading to the other; but in point of time, one came
)
i 4 first and then the second one came second and that was 5 your transfer out?
1 6 A Yes, sir. i 7 Q I presume Mr. Saklak would have had to have been
^
8 involved in the action to transfer you, would he not?
9 A Undoubtedly.
10 Q You didn't volunteer for a transfer or request one, did
)
11 you? i i 12 A Not to my -- not as I recall.
i O 13 Q Now, I think you responded- to Mr. Gallo further by 14 saying that in bull sessions or over lunch breaks or 15 such, when other inspectors would raise questions about 16 Mr. Saklak, you would at times suggest that the way to 17 deal with him was as you dealt with him; and that was to 18 more or less confront him and tell him that you weren't 19 going to -- you, other inspectors weren't going to --
20 take it from him?
21 A Attitude, yes. I, basically, agree with what you are j 22 saying; but I also make sure that I have got all my 23 ducks in a row before I went up and disagreed with _ Mr.
24- Saklak on doing something.
() 25 That was something I was very cautious with around
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O 1 that man.
2 Q And you weren't advocating that others be less cautious, 3 were you?
4 A No, sir.
5 Q But once they had their ducks in a row, so to speak, and 6 they were sure of their position, that they be firm with 7 Mr. Saklak and not take any stuff from him?
8 A If Mr. Saklak had disagreed with them, for whatever the .
9 circumstances, yes, I would want the inspector to stand 10 his ground.
11 Q Okay. Well, are you aware of any other inspectors who, 12 in fact, did stand their ground with Mr. Saklak?
O 13 A No, sir, not that I readily recall right now.
14 Q How about the case of Mr. Seeders, John Seeders; were 15 you aware that Mr. Seeders, in fact, put his foot down 16 and refused to be bullied by Mr. Saklak in the case that 17 you observed?
18 A The incident with Mr. Seeders and Mr. Saklak, as I 19 related it, is my only personal knowledge of what i 20 happened, other than what Seeders has conveyed to me 21 personally; and that was, in essence, showing me the 22 letter that, I believe, he wrote to the N. L. R. B.
l 23 Q The letter that Mr. Seeders wrote? ;
24 A Yes, the letter that Mr. Seeders wrote.
() 25 Q In fact, he wrote it to Mr. DeWald and sent copies to Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. _
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i 1 the NRC and others?
2 A Okay.
I The August 17th letter?
3 Q 4 A Yes.
l 5 Q Okay. And that letter was commonly circulated around -
6 the site, was it not? ,
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q Even in the limited circumstances that you observed -- .
! 9 and that was the exchange between Saklak and Seeders in i
10 the QC office that day -- Mr. Seeders didn't cower to 11 Mr. Saklak and, you know, confess that he was wrong and 12 just take it, did he?
l l
() 13 I mean, he stood up to Saklak, did he not?
1 i
- 14 A He did indicate to Mr. Saklak that he was doing his 15 assigned work.
16 Q And the consequence of Mr. Seeders standing up to Mr.
17 Saklak in that respect was that Mr. Saklak called him 18 out and told him he was going to -- he could play games t'
19 with him back or words to that effect?
20 A Yes, sir.
21 Q You later learned that Mr. Seeders got a written i 22 reprimand from Mr. Faklak for that day's interaction?
23 A Yes, sir.
- 24 Q You later learned, did you not, that Mr. Seeders got
() 25 involuntarily transferred to the Engineering Department l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 as a consequence of his dealings with Mr. Saklak?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q Did you know that they were -- they, CoR3tock management 4 were -- on the verge of firing Mr. Seeders?
5 A Mr. Seeders did relate to me that he had a choice 6 between being terminated or transferring to the 7 engineering group.
8 0 Were those facts, in your opinion, commonly known among 9 QC Inspectors, I mean the facts that Mr. Seeders related 10 that had occurred to him?
11 A Yes, sir.
12 Well, now, that's yourself standing up to Mr. Saklak and gs Q 13 you got transferred out of his group.
- 14 Mr. Seeders stood up to Mr. Saklak and he got 15 almost fired and transferred out of QC altogether and 16 got a written reprimand.
17 Do you know anybody else that stood up to Mr.
18 Saklak aside from yourself and Mr. Seeders?
19 A Not from my personal kn'owledge, no.
20 Q Ultimately, when Mr. Snyder took whatever action you 21 learned that Mr. Snyder took, it required 24 QC 22 Inspectors going to the NRC to stand up to Mr. Saklak, 23 did it not?
24 A That's just part of the whole.
() 25 It's -- I think I have explained myself in earlier Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 testimony in that; but, like I said earlier, it was the l
2 straw that broke the camel's back.
3 Q In part, wasn't it understood by the QC Inspectors that 4 went to the NRC in March of 1985, that individually 5 people would be relatively less capable of dealing with 6 Saklak and it was important that you band together and 7 support each other; and you did?
8 A That's basic' ally true, yes , sir.
9 Q And as a consequence of banding together and supporting 10 each other, events transpired that ultimately led to Mr.
11 Saklak's removal?
12 A I can't be a judge of that.
! (} The events transpired that we ultimately ended up 13 i 14 at the NRC office.
15 Q And, subsequently, whatever cause and effect 16 relationship there was, Mr. Saklak was gone?
17 A Yes, sir.
- 18 Q When you were doing this backlog work in the summer and 19 fall of '84, did it come to your attention by way of 20 rumor or understanding or shop talk that Comstock was at l 21 risk of losing its contract for the electrical work?
i l 22 A I had heard that rumor, yes, sir.
23 Q Do you recall whether or not Mr. Seltmann, among others, i
24 particularly, say, when he exhorted you to do the
() 25 backlog project and forgo your inspection training,
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1 certification training, alluded to a risk of Comstock !
2 losing the contract?
3 A 1 don't recall a statement like that at this time.
4 He may have made it. That does sound familiar, but 5 I can't put a name and a date to when that statement was 6 made.
7 Q Do you recall whether management, either Mr. Seltmann or 8 Mr. DeWald or Mr. Seese or, perhaps, others, made such a 9 reference?
~
10 A No, sir, I cannot.
11 Q Mr. Rick Martin, you talked about his work a little bit 12 in response to Mr. Gallo's questions.
13 Were you aware of any interaction between Mr.
14 Marcin and Mr. Saklak?
15 A Other than that they probably didn't like each other, 16 that was just shop talk.
17 I don't recall talking to Mr. Martin about Mr.
18 Saklak.
19 Q Were you aware through shop talk that Mr. Saklak had had
( 20 encounters with Mr. Martin where he had been threatening i
21 or abusive toward Martin?
22 A I had heard that, yes, sir.
23 0 Do you know whether or not Mr. Martin stood up to Mr.
24 Saklak?
() 25 A No, sir, I do not.
l l
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1 Q You knew of Mr. Worley Puckett when he was on site for 2 the three months that he worked for Comstock, May to 3 August of '847 4 A Yes, sir.
5 Q You were aware that Mr. Puckett was terminated by 6 Comstock?
7 A Yes, sir.
8 Q Do you have any understanding from shop talk, rumor or 9 other source that Mr. Puckett had filed a complaint with 10 the Department of Labor alleging that his termination 11 was in retaliation for having raised concerns about the g 12 welding program?
(/ Yes, sir, I had heard that.
13 A 14 Q Can you identify, generally, what the source of that 15 understanding was?
16 A It was just from the -- just the general populace of 17 inspectors. It was just the word that they had l
18 received.
19 0 Is it your belief that that was a common understanding 20 among the inspectors at Comstock?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 Q I believe in your deposition you stated that, in 23 substance, that, in your opinion, their recommendation 24 of a stop work order was drastic in character.
() 25 In substance, did you express that opinion?
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1 A In some of Mr. Puckett's solution to problems, the stop i i
- - 2 work, I believe, would have been drastic in character. !
l 3 Q When I asked the question, I meant in general;.but I am
]
4 glad you volunteered the additional point.
5 A stop work order, in your opinion, is something 6 you do when, in essence, all else fails to prevent the i
7 recurrence of a deficient or nonconforming condition; is 8 that true?
9 A Yes, sir.
I 10 0 I believe you testified in your deposition that in some i
11 instances in the course of your der. lings with individual
- 12 weld inspection there were occasions where you almost
! 13 recommended a stop work yourself?
3 14 A On this, if the occasion serves me, we were dealing with 15 an individual rather than a program.
i 16 Q Exactly.
17 A Yes, sir.
l 18 Q A recurring ncnconforming condition by craft that was l
19 being repeated, despite your identification of it as an i
20 improper or nonconforming condition; and, ultimately, l
l 21 - that recurring condition was stopped; but you had to go l
l 22 to some fairly extraordinary measures to get that to be 23 done?
24 A I did talk to the engineering group and to other
() 25 individuals in Comstock craft management, that this was Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. _
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1 the next step.
2 Q And work was stopped or the practice was stopped at that 3 point?
4 A Yes, yes, sir, the practice was stopped.
5 Q Since the practice was stopped, at that point you didn't 6 have to take further action to stop work?
7 A No, sir.
\ 8 Q All right. Now, do I understand correctly that your 9 responsibilities at that time extended to performing 16 individual inspection activities, looking at individual 11 components; correct?
12 A Yes, sir.
O 13 Q Did you understand as'to Mr. Puckett, in comparison, Mr.
14 Puckett's responsibilities were to be, as the Level 3, 15 programmatic in their scope for the welding program?
16- A Yes, sir, I understood that.
17 Q Are you aware of whether Mr. Puckett exhausted other 18 mechanisms available to him before he recommended a stop 19 work for deficiencies that he identified in the welding j 20 program?
21 A Mr. Puckett and I, you know, did talk some about weld 22 problems; but I was certainly not a competent -- not a g
23 confidant of his; and I am not aware of any other steps 24 that he had taken prior to recommending a stop work.
() 25 0 All right. Is it possible, Mr. Bowman, that while Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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6958 1 recommending a stop work in the abstract was a drastic 2 measure, that Mr. Puckett's recommendation of a stop
- 3 work was justified under the circumstance because he had exhausted other measures to see that the deficient 4
j 5 conditions were controlled?
- j. 6 A Could you rephrase that?
7 Q Surely.
- 8 Is it possible that Mr. Puckett brought his 9 concerns about welding program deficiencies to 10 management's attention and they took no action?
11 A I couldn't answer for Mr. Puckett or for the management,
~
- ! 12 either, simply because I am unaware.
13 Q All right, sir. You don't know then what other measures
- 14 Mr. Puckett may or may not have taken before he 15 recommended a stop work with regard to these welding
. 16 program problems?
t 17 A Right, I do not know what other measures he took.
i 18 Q Is it conceivable to you, then, that he had taken other i
j 19 measures; and those other measures, having proven l 20 unsuccessful in controlling the deficiencies that he t
21 identified, that a stop work recommendation was the only 22 measure left to him?
l 23 A If, under the scenario that you have described, the l
24 measures that he tried to correct a problem had not i
(
() 25 corrected it, then I would believe thc.'c the only Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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V 1 recourse that he had would be a stop work.
2 Q Have you ever heard reference made to a Pearl Harbor 3 file?
4 A I understand that is something that Mr. Saklak was 5 collecting.
6 Q And how did you arrive at that understanding, Mr.
7 Bowman?
8 A That was the word that I had heard through various 9 inspectors.
10 I don't remember if Mr. Saklak happened to mention 11 it in my presence, but it is something that I have 12
- heard.
O 13 Q Did you understand that it was files Mr. Saklak 14 mainteined to CYA, to const himse.lf?
15 A Yes, sir, exactly.
16 Q And that it contained -- may have contained -- a variety 17 of information, including derogatory information, about 18 others at Comstock?
19 A I am not really -- I am not informed on the content of 20 this file.
21 0 Is it your opinion that the existence of such a file, 22 whatever its content, was general knowledge among the QC 23 Inspectors?
24 A I can't say with any certainty on that.
f
() 25 Q Had you heard other inspectors discuss the existence of Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 such a file?
2 A Yes, sir; but it was not what you would call common 3 talk.
4 It was just between people that had been there 5 quite a while.
6 MR. GUILD: All right. Mr. Chairman, I would 7 like to suggest about a five-minute recess.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, certainly. Let's take a 9 ten-minute break now.
10 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which 11 the hearing was resumed as follows:)
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We are back in session.
p\_)
13 Mr. Guild, continue please.
14 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, my examination is 15 complete. I have no further questions.
16 Thank you, Mr. Bowman.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Thank you.
19 Ms. Chan.
19 CROSS EXAMINATION 20 BY MS. CHAN 21 Q Mr. Bowman, I would like to start with what is marked as 22 Applica'nt's Exhibit 39. This is an NRC Notice to 23 Employees about their protection when they go to contact 24 the NRC. i l
() 25 Do you recall seeing that posted anywhere around Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 the site?
2 A Yes, it is posted.
3 Q Were you faniliar with the protections afforded 4 employees who contact the NRC?
5 A Yes, I read it.
6 Q Were you aware of that at the time you went to the NRC 7 on the 29th of March --
8 A Yes.
9 Q -- that you were protected?
10 A Yes.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild, do we have the 12 same objection to this, the usual?
O s
13 MR. GUILD: I have been sort of debating 14 whether to re-assert it, Mr. Chairman. I knew everyone 15 would remember, so I have not re-asserted it.
16 There should be some updated version of this form, 17 again; and I would hope that Applicants would honor l 18 their long-standing commitment to replace Applicant's l
19 Exhibit 39 with a good copy, so we can tell.
20 MR. 3 ALLO: We put the search for the good 21 copy on hold while we looked for the checklist of Mr.
22 DeWald, but I understand we may be able to have an 23 updated copy tomorrow.
t l 24 BY MS. CHAN:
() 25 Q Mr. Bowman, earlier Mr. Gallo, Applicant's counsel, was
)
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, 1 showing you Intervenors' Exhibit 42-A, which was a memo 2 from Charles Weil to Mr. Norelius, and he showed you in 3 particular Page 3, which contains some information that i
- 4 you verified.
5 Early in your testimony you had said that you 6 reside on West Bergera Road in Braidwood, Illinois?
- 4 4 7 A Yes, sir.
, 8 Q I would like to show you a letter that was addressed to i
you at your Bergera Road' address that transmitted the
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9
! 10 April 5th memo that I just referred to and ask you if
! 11 you recall receiving that letter? .
12 A (No response.)
13 Q Without the little brackets on it.
14 A Not at this time, but it's in all likelihood that I did 15 receive it.
i 16 Q I see. In the last paragraph of this letter, it says j
17 that if you have any additional information, corrections 18 to the enclosure or questions, that you give Mr. Weil a 19 call or write to him at the, address indicated.
20 Did you follow up and write to him er call him
) 21 about it, that you recall?
l 22 ,
A Does that say if I have any alterations to make?
- 23 Q If you have any questions --
24 A No.
() 25 Q -- to the enclosure.
l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois OU1Je (312) 232-0262
6963 1 A No. I don't believe I had any questions to it.
2 No, I did not call the gentleman.
3 MS. CHAN: I would like to mark this as Staff 4 Exhibit 11 for identification.
5 (The document was thereupon marked Staf f's 6 Exhibit No. 11 for identification as of 7 July 8, 1986.)
8 MS. CHAN: I move that it be admitt'ed.
9 JUDCS GROSSMAN: Is there any objection?
10 MR. GUILD: No objection.
11 MR. GALLO: No objection.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Admitted.
() 13 (The document was thereupon received into
, 14 evidence as Staff's Exhibit No. 11.)
15 BY MS. CHAN:
16 Q Mr. Bowman, earlier in your testimony you mentioned that
, 17 Mr. Landers had made a remark to you that you had taken 4
18 -- you weren't sure whether to take it in a joking l.
19 fashion or not.
20 That you keep up the good work or they would take 21 -
"we would take away your overtime."
22 Do you recall that testimony?
23 A Yes, I do. !
24 Q At the time was Mr. Walters your lead?
() 25 A Yes, he was.
l l
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i 1 Q Who was his supervisor?
I 2 A Mr. Worthington.
3 Q Did Mr. Landers have the power to authorize your
- 4 overtime that you know of?
l 5 A I am not certain whether or not Mr.' Landers had the
~
6 power to give or take away overtime.
! 7 However, I am sure that he would influence.those 8 who did.
- 9 Q Mr. Bowman, I would like to ask you a little bit about 10 your management that you experienced in River Bend.
11 You said you were a liaison between QC management 12 i
g 13 A and the craft?
Yes.
i i
14 Q In that capacity did you have the responsibility for 15 identifying and resolving problems that came up between 16 the two?
! 17 A Yes.
18 Q Do you think you developed any management abilities in i 19 the course of your position there?
1 l
20 A I would like to think so, yes.
21 Q You had also testified that you had welded under ASME i 22 Code early in your career at either nine mile island --
! 23 excuse me -- Nine Mile Point or in the assembly of River
- 24 Bend components in Chicago?
() 25 A Yes.
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1 Q Can you tell us what code that was?
2 A It was ASME Code.
3 Q ASME Code?
4 A Section 8. How is that?
5 Q Would it be D.1.1-1975?
6 A That would be the AWS Code.
7 Q AWS, okay.
8 Have you welded under the AWS D.1.1-1975 Code?
9 A Prior to this project at Braidwood, no.
10 Q So you started welding under it at Braidwood?
11 A I have never welded under the AWS Code.
12 Q Mr. Guild questioned you about your knowledge of Mr.
(:) 13 Puckett's situation at Braidwood.
j 14 Can you describe your professional association with 15 Mr. Puckett?
16 A It would be strictly in the relationship as an inspector 17 to his superior.
\
18 Q So you understand that he is the Level 3 Inspector, weld 19 inspector?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Is that correct?
! 22 A That's correct.
I 23 Q What was your understanding of Mr. Puckett's 24 responsibilities in that position?
() J5 A When there was a major problem with procedures, 1
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1 qualification of welds, qualification of welders, any i
2 type of welding control or quality assurance, the same, 3 the aforementioned items, that he would be the person to 4 see.
! 5 Q I ses. Would you go see him if you needed an 6 interpretation of the code?
2 7 A Yes, I definitely would.
8 Q Did you understand that he would be responsible for 9 developing procedures that might be necessary to solve
. 10 some of the problems that were brought to him?
11 A Yes, that was my understanding.
12 Q Were you aware of some of Mr. Puckett's concerns at
(:) 13 Braidwood?
14 A We did speak briefly about some of them, yes.
15 Q What did he tell you about his concerns?
l 16 A He was concerned about the compatibility of materials i 17 that were being used in the field; and I believe it was 18 -- he also mentioned that there was not a qualified i
l 19 welding procedure for those materials.
! 20 Q When you mentioned the compatibility of materials, might j 21 this have been the A-36 to A-4467 j 22 A I don't recall the designations at this moment, but they 23 do sound familiar.
24 Q Was it your understanding that Mr. Puckett was concerned
() 25 thac there was not a qualified procedure for welding P
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, l 1 those two materials that you discussed with him?
- 2 A That was my understanding, yes.
3 Q Did he suggest that it was improper -- therefore, 4- improper --- to continue welding those materials?
l 5 A I don't recall that he said that it was improper to 6 continue welding them. I don't ever recall him saying j
7 that we shouldn't be welding 'them. l 8 I think our concern was more of -- what we
! 9 discussed was the procedure qualification for those 10 materials.
11 I don't recall Mr. Puckett and I discussing whether !
f 4
l 12 or not they should or should not continue using that O 13 process.
1 14 Q What did he tell you about or what did you discuss about 15 the procedure qualification?
16 A It was review of the qualifications that were in 17 existence and those that were shown in the AWS 18 D.1.1-1975, and we were comparing them to the materials 19 and welding procedures in effect at the site at the 20 time.
21 Q Did he suggest any action he might take to resolve the i 22 problem?
23 A I believe the stop work was mentioned, you know, as a i 24 final solution or as a possible solution.
, () 25 Q Did he ask your opinion about it? l 1
i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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- 1 A No, he did not.
2 Q Did he suggest what he might do prior to a stop work to
. 3 solve the problem?
4 A That's -- I don't really recall. It's been a while ago.
5 I don't recall what any proposed solutions were.
6 It was a general discussion of welding qualification 7 procedures. ;
8 Q I would like to draw your attention back to your
.i 9 experience with stop work as a remedy.
i i 10 Can you tell us the effect of a stop work order on 11 construction, generally?
12 A (Indicating.)
()
! 13 Q I see you are smiling, if I could indicate that to the l 14 record.
15 A I would believe they would just about panic. That's the l
i i 16 best description I can describe.
17 It's something they do not want.
18 Q Are you saying that if a stop work were unnecessarily l 19 imoosed, that this may be frowned upon by management?
20 A Oh, most definitely. ,
21 Q Earlier you had referred to your experience with a stop 22 work and that you had to take some, I believe what Mr.
23 Guild called, drastic or strong actions before the 24 problem was resolved short of a stop work.
Did you issue NCR's?
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6969
() '
1 A Yes.
2 Q How many did you have to issue before the problem was 3 resolved?
4 A If my memory serves me, I believe it was three.
5 Q Do you recall if you had to warn or threaten a stop work 6 before you got action?
7 A Yes, I did approach the engineering group and explained 8 to them that,'as the procedures were written, it was 9 within the power of the Level 2 Inspector to recommend a 10 stop work procedure to the quality control management 11 group and immediately in the field to have work stop 12 until they were again instructed by their management to 13 proceed.
l 14 Q Did you ever have occasion to discuss the AWS D.l.1-1975 15 Code or its application with Mr. Puckett?
16 A Yes, I did.
17 Q And could you relate to us the substance of that 18 discussion?
19 A I believe, if my memory serves me, it was in the 20 discussion of the applicability of welding qualification 21 procedures dealing with galvanized pan to tube steel 22 that was utilized as a support for the pan in the 23 nuclear plant. 1 l
24 Q was he arking you questions or just soliciting your
()
25 opinion as a second opinion?
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l A He was soliciting my opinion.
2 Q Did he seem to already have an opinion?
3 A- Yes, he did.
4 Q And can you tell us what that opinion was?
5 A He, apparently, believed or -- I can't determine whether 6 or not he was correct.
7 It was his opinion that the compatibilities of the 8 existing materials thr.t were in use had not been 9 qualified at that time.
10 Q Did he suggest a remedy for that?
11 A I believe that he did say that they needed to do a 12 procedure qualification on that.
O 13 Q Did he ask your opinion on whether that was necessary or 14 how to go about it?
15 A Not as I -- not as I recall.
16 0 Do you know if Mr. Puckett initiated a procedure 17 qualification?
18 A It's my understanding that he did.
19 0 Did you have occasion to discuss L.2790 with Mr.
20 Puckett?
i 21 A Yes, I did.
22 0 Can you describe the substance of that discussion?
23 A It was the use of L.2790, thinness, the scope designed 24 for it on this job and the applications of the
() 25 structural AWS D.l.1-1975 that was used in L.2790 and Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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l how it's applied on this job.
2 0 Was he soliciting your opinion on the interpretation of
- 3 that?
! 4 A It's sort of like being on a witness stand with Mr.
! 5 Puckett.
I 6 We did talk about how ANS did affect the L.2790 and 7 how far we were , going to expand in the D.l.l. Are we 8 going to say that this section also is included in 9 L.2790 or is it even more limited in scope when they say i
10 referencing something out of D.l.l?
11 It was how much of the structural code that was 12 applicable to L.2790. That was the basis of our O 13 discussions.
14 Q Did he ever discuss with you whether AWS D.l.3 applied?
15 A Yes, he did.
16 Q What was the substance of that discussion?
17 A It was being applicable to the welding of the unistrut 18 to the cable pan support.
19 Q What did he ask you? Did he ask your opinion, again?
20 A He did, and at that time I asked to see the D.l.3 that 21 he was referring to; and he didn't have it in his i
22 possession at the time, although we did discuss the 23 prequalification of D.l.1, whether or not it would apply
! 24 to the code set forth in D.1.3.
() 25 Q Do you know if the AWS D.l.3 applies, does, indeed, l
! Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
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I 6972 0
1 apply?
2 A I am sorry. I have never read D.1.3.
3 I can't say.
4 Q Mr. Puckett never supplied it to you?
t 5 A No. I have never read D.1.3.
6 Q Did you have occasion to discuss the use of 7013 or 7018 7 electrode on unistrut cable pan welddowns with Mr.
8 Puckett?
9 A We discussed 6013 and 7018 electrodes in use on both pan 10 to tube steel and pan to unistrut welds.
11 Q Did you make any suggestions to him at the time --
12 A Yes, I did.
! 13 0 -- about the use of 7018 electrode?
14 A Yes, I did.
15 Q Could you tell us what suggestions you made?
16 A It was my recommendation that, although 6013 was a 17 qualified electrode, that it would be advisable if the i
18 field limited its use to the most accessible places and 19 used 7018 as the normal electrode to be used welding 20 these materials.
21 Q What was the basis of your recommendation?
22 A My basis for that was the skill of the welders.
23 The 6013 is a high penetration rod; and due to the 24 light material and sometimes the very awkwardness of
]
() 25 positions needed to do the welding, that the lesser Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 penetration of the 7018 electrode would be a better 2 electrode for the craft to use.
3 Q How did Mr. Puckett respond to your suggestion?
4 A He agreed with me.
5 Q Did he take any action to implement it or change a 6 procedure?
7 A I don't know if it was Mr. Puckett's responsibility, but 8 the procedure was changed to read that either electrode 9 can be used for a grid pass on a 9-A weld, which is 10 unistrut to cable pans.
11 I don't know if Mr. Puckett had anything to do with 12 that.
O 13 0 I would like to go back a little bit.
14 Did you identify the concern about the use of a 15 different electrode for that particular purpose or did 16 Mr. Puckett identify the --
17 A I believe I brought it to Mr. Puckett's attention.
18 From viewing, you know, many welds, it was my 19 recommendation, being familiar with both electrodes and 20 their uses, it would be better for the craft to use 21 7018, 22 Q So you had identified the concern and also suggested a 23 resolution to it?
24 A If you want to state it like that, yes. ,,
() 25 Q Do you think Mr. Puckett was aware of the concern before Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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V 1 you brought it to his attention?
2 A I couldn't say; I really couldn't.
3 Q Did you have an opportunity to form an opinion about Mr.
4 Puckett's knowledge of the code and its interpretation?
5 A Other than the times that we have just mentioned where 6 we discussed specifics, I really can't say how great Mr.
7 Puckett's knowledge was of the codes. I have no idea.
8 Q Why don't we limit it to the examples we have just 9 discussed.
10 A Okay.
11 Q Based on that, were you able to form an opinion of his 12 ability to interpret the code and to, I guess, O 13 understand the practical implications of it?
14 A It's kind of hard for me to answer that, because we were 15 dealing with the application of the codes from the 16 welders' point of view.
17 As far as the technicalities of compatibilities of 18 metals and filler metals, we really didn't get into any 19 discussion in depth of that type of topic.
20 Q How about f rom a welders' point of view?
21 A I think he could have been a little more knowledgeable, 22 but he -- he seemed to be aware of welding practices. l l
23 BOARD EXAMINATION 1
24 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN j
() 25 Q Excuse me.
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 Were you aware of the fact that Mr. Puckett had had l
2 a lot of welding experience himself?
3 A Yes, sir. I understand he worked in the Navy in the )
4 Navy shipyards or something along those lines for what, 4
5 20 years, i 6 Q So when you spoke to him, it was as welder to welder i
7 rather than as QC person; is that basically it?
8 A Yes. That was the point of view that we were trying to 9 take.
. 10 We were trying to put ourselves in the position of 11 the welder and dealing with the materials they had to 12 deal with. That was the position we were trying to take O 13 for not only compatibility of the materials but of ease 14 of welding, to reduce the number of deficient items, 15 undercut and things like this.
16 That was our whole scope of trying to get into 17 their position. We did not discuss it as an inspector 18 to a Level 3, other than the procedure qualifications.
19 Q Did Mr. Puckett appear to you to be a conscientious 20 person?
21 A Yes, sir, he did.
I 22 Q And I take it he was using you as a sounding board for 23 some of his ideas?
i 24 A I think that went both ways, sir; but I believe he did.
]
() 25 Q But he was trying to draw, also, on your experience as a Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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1 welder?
2 A Yes, sir.
I 3 CROSS EXAMINATION '
l 4 (Continued.)
5 BY MS. CHAN 6 Q Mr. Bowman, do you know if Mr. Puckett used anyone else 7 as a sounding board for his ideas or his questions?
8 A Not to my personal knowledge, no.
9 Q Do you know Mr. Anthony simile?
10 A Yes, I do.
11 Q Have you had an opportunity to form an opinion of his 12 knowledge of the code?
O 13 A I have worked with him a great deal longer than I did 14 with Mr. Puckett, so I believe I have an idea of his 15 knowledge, yes.
16 Q Can you describe his knowledge of the code?
4
~
17 A Which code is that?
18 Q ThisistheAWS1g-1975?
19 A I believe he is more familiar with it than I am. That's l
20 for certain.
21 Q Recalling your testimony just a few questions ago, would 22 you suggest that, perhaps, you might have been more 23 knowledgeable in some parts of that code than Mr.
24 Puckett?
We were being -- discussions wit'h Mr. Puckett were very
() 25 A Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 narrow, sort of like tunnel vision, dealing with 2 specific topics.
3 Mr. Simile's knowledge of the AWS Code is very 4 broad; and, whereas, I discuss various topics with Mr.
5 Simile and he has always been able to provide a ready 6 answer or refer to the proper section so that we could 7 determine the proper answer to any problem that we might 8 have received, where with Mr. Puckett we were dealing 9 exclusively with -- it was either a welding procedure --
t 10 that was what we discussed with the AWS Code, was the
- 11 compatibility of the two materials and whether or not.it 12 ,
was a prequalified weld design.
13 Q Do you know if Mr. Puckett had the same wide-ranging 14 knowledge of the code that you have attributed to Mr.
15 Simile?
16 A I can't say. I didn't work with Mr. Simile that long.
17 MR. GALLO: Mr. Puckett.
18 THE WITNESS: Excuse me. Mr. Puckett.
19 BY MS. CHAN:
20 0 Can you compare and contrast the management skills of 21 Mr. Puckett and Mr. Simile in regard to their oversight 22 of the welding program?
23 MR. GUILD: Objection.
l 24 There, first, is established no foundation for l
() 25 making the comparison, on the one hand, regarding Mr.
1 Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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6978 1 Puckett. The witness has stated what the limits are of 2 his knowledge, and it is very limited.
3 Secondly, Mr. Simile sits here behind counsel table 4 and is in a direct supervisory position over the 5 witness.
6 It seems to me to be highly unfair and of suspect 7 probative value for you to ask an inspector -- Mr.
8 Puckett is not here -- to be making a comparis~on opinion 9 ' evaluation of a man who was fired by this company versus 10 the man who replaced him, who sits here, and supervises 11 him.
. 12 I object to the comparison question.
J3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I think Ms. Chan is 14 entitled to ask for an opinion; but if the witness 15 indicates that he is not qualified to offer an opinion 16 on either Mr. Simile or Mr. Puckett, that is up to him 4
17 to say.
18 So we will allow the question, but you can indicate 19 what limits there are to your answer.
20 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat the question, 21 please?
22 MS. CHAN: Mr. Reporter, would you please?
23 (The question was thereupon read by the 24 Reporter.)
() 25 MR. GALLO: I would like the record to show Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 that Mr. Simile has left the courtroom.
1 l 2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I don't think we ought to be ,
i 3 playing those games.
4 I think it really was appropriate for Mr. Guild to
! 5 indicate that that was the situation and it was noted in l 6 the record and that was sufficient.
] 7 The fact that Mr. Simile left the room now I think 8 was a nice gesture on his part, but it really doesn't
! 9 change the situation much.
l
! 10 A I agree.
l j 11 I would. answer the question honestly whether or not
! 12 Mr. Simile was sitting there or not.
i
() 13 I believe that Mr. Simile has better management l 14 skills than Mr. Puckett did. However, I cannot make a 15 qualitative judgment on the comparison of the two 16 person's skills as that is something that you would 17 develop over time.
18 As far as administrative goes, Mr. Simile interacts i 19 more with the inspectors than Mr. Puckett did. I have i
20 that just from general observation.
l 21 BY MS. CHAN:
5
! 22 Q Do you interpret that interaction as a positive aspect 23 of a manager?
j 24 A It's probably one of the most positive things that has 25 f
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!O 1 MS. CHAN: Thank you very much, Mr. Bowman.
2 I have no further questions at this time.
3 -
BOARD EXAMINATION 4 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN f
4 5 Q In the instance that Ms. Chan mentioned to you in which 4
6 you had written three NCR's and then indicated to 7 engineering that you were considering a stop work 8 recommendation, did that result in engineering taking .
9 immediate action?
10 A Yes, it did.
11 BOARD EXAMINATION 12 BY JUDGE COLE O 13 Q Mr. Bowman, concerning the base metal, reduction problem 14 that you found in a structural weld and the conversation i
15 that you had with Mr. Walters concerning that, did Mr.
16 Landers observe the interchange between you and Mr.
17 Walters on that subject?
18 A No, sir, he did not.
i 19 0 Was-he aware that -- how long after your conversation
- 20 with Mr. Walters did you talk to Mr. Landers?
i 21 A Within five minutes.
22 Q And he was in a different room? l 1
l l 23 A Yes, sir, he was in a different room. l l 24 Q All right, sir. Thank you.
O 25 oo you recall there ever being a fire in the i Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 quality control area on the site?
2 A Yes, sir, there was a fire.
3 Q Were you there at the time?
4 A At the time of the fire, no.
5 I was there during the normal course of working 6 hours, yes, sir. The fire was in the evening of -- I 7 forget. I am terrible for that.
8 It was during the evening and our working shift was 9 during the day.
10 0 Could you describe the fire to me? What burned?
j i 11 A It, apparently, started in the downstairs men's bathroom 12 and fle'd up through the floor directly into the Quality 1
() 13 Control Manager's office; and that was where the 14 majority of the damage occurred, was in the QC Manager's 15 office.
16 Q So it wasn't anywhere close to the vault area where some 17 of these documents that you might be looking for might 18 have been destroyed?
19 A Other than smoke damage to the vault area, no, there was 20 no fire in that location whatsoever.
21 JUDGE COLE: All right, sir. Thank you.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo.
23 I am sorry.
24 BOARD EXAMINATION
() 25 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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V 1 0 Come back to the vault. We have heard much about it.
2 What is the purpose of the vault?
3 A It's the storage of permanent written records until 4 turnover to the client.
5 Q Is it a security-designed structure or a fire-protected 6 structure?
7 A Yes. It has a halogen evacuation system in case there 8 is any fire. It's immediately run out the door, because 9 the halogen, I think, is released within 60 seconds or 10 some ve ry short time period.
11 It has a fireproof door, no windows, and it's i 12 concrete blocks, cement floor.
- ( I don't know what the roofing structures are.
13 ,
I 14 don't know what their fire composition is but it's
! 15 designed to be relatively fireproof without the actual 16 file cabinets being fireproof. So it's a fireproof 17 environment.
18 As far as security goes, as far as access, that is 19 controlled by LKC management -- yes, LKC management.
- 20 Q Returning for just a moment to the muchly discussed 21 matter of Mr. Puckett and qualification of base metals, i
22 which I am sure you are familiar with, A-36 and A-446:
23 In your opinion, are they compatible and are there 24 any constraints or restraints put on their being welded,
() 25 and, if so, with what weld rod?
'Sonntag Reporting Cervice, Ltd.
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1 A I find no problen with compatibilities of A-36 or A-436 2 or any of those metals that were qualified for use on 3 the site, because I have reviewed all of those I don't 4 know how many times, until they have run around in my 5 head.
l 6 I see no compatibility problem between 6013 and 7 7018 electrodes in any combination of the base metals 8 and electrodes.
l 9 Q Are you familiar with any restraints put on weld size?
i 10 A No, sir. )
11 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Thank you very much.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, by the way, how O 13 long do you think you are going to take.
14 MR. GALLO: I will endeavor to finish by 15 5:00.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
j 17 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 18 BY MR. GALLO 19 Q Mr. Bowman, you were asked a number of questions by Mr.
! 20 Guild about standing up to Mr. Saklak.
l 21 Do you recall that?
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q Isn't what you meant by standing up to Mr. Saklak was to 24 let him know in no uncertain terms where you stood and
)
() 25 that you weren't going to be bullied; is that correct?
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1 A I believe -- this is as close as I can remember -- I 2 told Mr. Saklak, "I don't goof off during working hours 3 and I will follow the procedures as best as, you know, I 4 can understand them; and when I don't understand them, I 5 will go to an expert and get the, you know, 6 interpretation of it."
7 I told him, "That expert may not be you."
8 0 When you were making suggestions to these other 9 inspectors about how they might handle Mr. Saklak and 10 you were indicating that -- and I believe your previous 11 testimony was that you needed to stand up to him; is i
12 that correct?
' O 13 A Yes, sir.
14 Q And just tell him what your position is?
15 A Uh-huh.
] 16 0 And you indicate that you weren't going to be bullied, I 17 believe that's your testimony?
18 A Yes. Between inspectors, yes.
I 19 I did not use that terminology with Mr. Saklak.
'l 20 Q Right.
! 21 But that's what you meant in dealing with Mr.
22 Saklak?
23 A Yes, yes.
24 Q That is your understanding of your own behavior with
() 25 respect to dealing with him?
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l 6985 (2) 1 A Yes, sir.
2 Q Now, was that the type of behavior that you witnessed 3 with respect to Mr. seeders on that incident he had with 4 Mr. Saklak when he told Mr. Sakl'ak that he was doing his 5 work?
! 6 A Simply put, yes.
7 Q The same sort of forcefulness and forthrightness 8 evidenced by Mr. Seeders?
9 A Mr. Seeders was on the' defensive at that time. I was i 10 not.
11 The situation came up that Mr. Saklak was 12 interested in. I explained the situation as I saw it O 13 and I went on to say, "This is how I see it. This is 14 how I am going to react to it. However, if I do run 15 into any problems, I will go to an expert, which may not 16 be you."
17 Mr. Seeders was already defending himself when I
- 18 viewed that incident.
19 0 He was simply explaining that he wasn't goofing off, he 20 was doing work?
21 A That's right.
22 0 With respect to the question of your transfer from the 23 Saklak group to the Worthington group, if I can use that i
j 24 phraseology, in answer to one of Mr. Guild's questions
() 25 you indicated that, as far as you could recall, that you
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1 hadn't requested to be transferred out of the Saklak 4
2 group.
3 A Not to my knowledge, no, I did not.
4 Q Did this transfer come out of the blue as a surprise to 5 you? You had no forewarning?
i 6 A To the best of my recollection, it was pretty much out I
j 7 of the blue, yes, sir.
i '
8 Q Would you likely recall if you had initiated or had made 9 a request for transfer?
10 A Yes, sir, I would have recalled that.
11 Q The checklist, the DeWald checklist, I want to show you j 12 one document in Intervenors' Exhibit 18. ,
i O 13 You had testified previously that you believe that P
14 the checklist that you attributed to Mr. Dewald l
j 15 contained in excess of 1,100 inspect results.
16 Do I recall your testimony correctly?
17 A Yes, you do, i '
j 18 Q I show you one of the documents in Intervenors' Exhibit 19 18. It's a checklist indicating 1,166 welds. It's i 20 dated May 8, 1979, and it's signed not by DeWald but by j 21 an individual called Yanketis, I believe you pronounce i
22 that.
23 'Is it possible -- I know you have already testified i 24 that you saw the DeWald signature on the checklist; but i
O 25 is 1e possib1e -- ehat this is the check 11st that Mr.
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1 Coss showed you that day?
2 A Due to the recent inspection that I have done, I would 3 doubt my own word as to whether or not I saw that
, 4 checklist by Mr. DeWald; but I clearly and vividly 5 remember seeing the checklist.
6 This is not it.
7 0 This is not it?
8 A No, sir.
9 Q You mentioned some promises from Mr. Marino during the i
1 10 time that he visited the site on occasion, I believe, 1
11 some time in '84.
4
- 12 Do you recall that? ,
13 A Yes, sir.
l 1 14 Q What were those promises?
15 A Expanding of the training program, the equality of pay i
l 16 between the inspectors that were already certified in --
17 recently certified inspectors and incentives for
, 18 inspectors to increase their inspection capabilities.
19 In other words, raises for the more inspections you 20 received.
I 21 0 So, essentially, he was talking about job benefits?
22 A Yes, sir.
1
^
23 Q And I believe you indicated that those promises were not 24 fulfilled? ,
l l () 25 A That's correct.
]
i i
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O 1 Q Did Mr. Marino ever offer an explanation for why they
- 2 weren't fulfilled?
- 3 A Mr. Marino has never made another appearance on the i
! 4 jobsite after that meeting where he made those J
5 announcements.
6 Q Do you believe that this was a source of discontent 4 7 among the QC Inspectors?
l 8 A Yes, sir, at that time prior to Mr. Marino's visit and i
i 9 after Mr. Marino's visit.
1 10 Q Do you believe it may have been a factor influencing the 11 inspectors to go visit the NRC in March of 1985?
j 12 A I can't speak for the other inspectors; but it was not
- O 13 the reason that I went, sir.
14 Q Yourself, you don't recall -- do you recall at the 15 meeting on March 29th of 1985 that some of the i
j 16 inspectors raised questions about working conditions and 17 pay scales and that sort of thing?
l 18 A It may have come up -- I can't recall it clearly -- at 19 the time, sir.
1 20 0 You don't recall whether some of the inspectors may have i
j 21 been complaining about that or not?
22 A That could have been, but I don't recall it.
23 Q Returning to the research question, Mr. Guild asked you 4
24 a number of questions about a situation when you were O 25 inspecting the eack1og oe McR.s and 1cR.s and you were l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
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concerned about the premature close out of either an ICR 1
2 or NCR because of an outstanding Field Change Request or f
1 i 3 an Engineering Change Notice.
l 4 Do you recall that?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q I thought it was your testimony that the inspection ,
r i
- 7 documents would show a reference to either an ECN or an i
8 FCR?
- 9 A I don't recall that, sir.
i 10 Q If -- t l
j 11 A Are we speaking of an installation report?
4
- l 12 Q Yes. I guess I mischaracterized it. I apologize it.
4 i
O 13 I am talking about the installation report.
14 A Usually that is the case, sir, if the installation was 15 done to the FCR, ECN.
16 These that I am speaking of in this context are
] l 17 alterations to the hanger after the hanger has been
}
18 installed.
19 Q So it couldn't be referenced in either the FCR or the 20 ECN. I am sorry.
21 The Field Change Request or the Engineering Change i
j , 22 Notice could not be referenced in either the ICR or the l l 23 NCR because they came after the issuance of that ;
l 24 document? l O 25 , correce.
1 Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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- 1 Q Now, is it your understanding of Comstock procedures 2 that as long as an FCR or ECN might have been issued j 3 with respect to a matter covered by an NCR, that it's 4 inappropriate to close out that NCR?
5 A' (No response.)
6 Q Am I confusing you?
1 1 7 A Yes.
l 8 Q Let me try again. .
- 9 An NCR is issued to discover a discrepant condition f 10 and the matter is dispositioned. This is a hypothetical 11 situation.
} 12 Subsequent to the issuance of the NCR, an ECN is
!' (:) 13 issued that changes the design in some respect.
I 14 You, as the inspector, are given the NCR to go out i
j 15 and determine the adequacy of the disposition shown on i
! 16 the NCR. You don't do any research. You simply go out j 17 and do your inspection. i l' 18 You close out the NCR on the basis of that ,
j 19 inspection.
..! 20 You indicated that if you had known or if you knew ,
l 21 at the time you made that kind of inspection that there I
l 22 was an outstanding FCR or ECN, it would be premature to i
23 close out the NCR in that circumstance; is that correct?
24 A That depends on the nature of the FCR, the ECN and the ;
l I () 25 disposition of the NCR.
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1 Q Let's hypothesize that there is no relationship between :
2 the two. i 3 Would it be inappropriate to close out the NCR in ,
4 that circumstance? ,
5 A Accepting that the ECN did not alter the condition of the installed hanger -- it would be hard to describe a P 6 l 7 condition like that. !
8 It's possible for that to happen and still be 9 acceptable. However, the inspector should note that, j 10 that there is an open ECN or FCR against that h:nger on 11 his checklist.
12 Q Let's take the situation where the ECN or'the FCR did O 13 change the configuration or the hanger situation as 14 covered in the Nonconformance Report.
15 You believe it- would be inappr *riate in that 16 circumstance to close out the NCR di long as the ECN or 17 the FCR was titill outstanding?
18 A If the ECN or FCR altered the design indicated on the 19 NCR, yes, it would.
20 Q Now, you believe that's a violation of Comstock o 21 procedures? .
22 A Yes, sir.
23 Q Can you identify for me the procedure that you had in !
24 mind? I
() 25 A 411.1, 411.2. !
Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd. !
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6992 1 0 Thi,s is 411.27 2 A Yes.
I 3 Q And 411.17 4 A .l.
- 5 0 This procedure is an inspection procedure?
6 A' It's the NCR and ICR procedures.
7 Q It's the NCR and ICR procedures?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And it's your understanding that those two references
- 10 you gave me indicate that in the circumstances we have 11 been discussing here, that the ICR or the NCR should not 1
12 be closed out?
() 13 A Yes, sir.
14 Q Well, I guess the procedure will speak for itself on
! 15 that question, since we don't have it here today.
! 16 A Yes, sir.
17 Q But isn't it appropriate, the procedure aside, to simply 18 close out the NCR in those circumstances and let the 19 procedures and controls that apply to handling Field 20 Change Requests or ECN's take care of the design change?
- 21 A If we had a concrete example that we could deal with, l 22 this would be a lot easier.
j 23 If there is an NCR that exists for a specific 24 deficiency, that NCR can be closed, irregardless if j
() 25 there are other deficiencies, as long as those other Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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i O 1 deficiencies are noted on 'another either ICR or NCR.
l 2 If the ECN's that should have been noted on an NCR i 3 to correct the deficiencies are not noted, there is no 4 way you can close the NCR. g i
1 5 Q I understand that.
j 6 We are talking about a situation where the ECN or 1
7 FCR issued after,the --
8 A After the fact? ,
9 Q Yes.
10 A Then if you have no knowledge of it -- you can't violate l
i 11 the procedure if you have no kaowledge of it.
I j 12 0 Is it your testimony now that the only time you have a i
O 13 violation of procedure is if you close out an NCR in a 14 circumstance where there is an applicable ECN or an FCR , ,
4 15 and it's not referenced in the NCR or ICR7 1
) 16 A If the ECN or FCR applies to the inspection that you are ,
17 doing, it should be noted on your checklist.
18 Q And if it's not, that's a violation of procedures?
l f 19 A It's a recommended practice.
i j 20 To be unaware of an ECN or FCR that could alter-21 your inspection, that is a violation of your procedures, i
i 22 because then you are no longer dealing with current
{
! 23 drawings. !
24 Q So the purpose of your research is really to double i
i O 25 check whether or noe the information on the ins,ection 1
! Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 O 1 report is correct and --
i
! 2 A Yes, sir.
! 3 Q -- to see whether or not there is the --
l 4 A The most current ones?
5 Q -- the failure by someone to include all the specific 6 information needed with respect to an NCR, ECN's or i
7 ,
FCR's?
j 8 A Yes, sir; but it's not a procedure violation on the .
i
! 9 installation report if this information is not provided.
j 10 Q I see. It's only a procedure violation if you complete I
) 11 the inspection without taking the ECN or FCR into l'
l 12 account?
I i 13 A Yes, sir.
14 Q So you just kind of double check in this fashion? !
l ~
- 15 A Yes, sir. .
l j 16 Q What has your experience been in checking in this
! 17 fashion?
I Have you uncovered a number of circumstances where 18 i 19 the ECN's or FCR's weren't recorded on the inspection 20 report?
} 21 A Yes, sir. It's not uncommon.
i 22 Q It is not uncommon; it has happened?
l 1
23 A Yes, sir.
)
24 Q Taking that situation -- and that would be a procedure
() 25 violation for you to complete your inspection on that i i i l l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. 1 i veneva, Illinois ov1Je i (312) 232-0262 I 1
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1 basis?
2 A Yes, sir.
3 Q Isn't it correct, however, that when the ECN was
! 4 reconciled and taken care of, that an inspection of the 5 design change would be accomplished and be expected to l
4 6 be completed?
7 A Generally, that's true.
8 However, I have found instances where FCR's were 9 picked up -- not necessarily picked up but were examined 10 by Sargent & Lundy and in these documents they would I 11 review the mechanical and structural integrity, do their l
l 12 calculations for their seismic analysis and these would O 13 be accepted; and the information contained in there and. ;
i 14 their acceptance would not be transferred to the general l
j 15 drawings or the plan drawings.
- 16 S & L would consider the document closed and their 17 end of the work had been done, but we would be left with J
18 an open one and we would not know that it had been 19 altered.
- 20 Our copy would become stamped as superseded and the 21 plan drawing would remain as its original design.
l j 22 0 So one of these matters could fall through the cracks 23 then?
24 A It's possible. It's a remote one.
O 2s o eue it.s possib1e2 i
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1 A But it does happen, yes.
- 2 Q Isn't the purpose of the final turnover and document i 3 review to catch these kinds of items?
I 4 A Yes, sir, it is; but I think_an ounce of prevention is l
5 worth a pound of cure, especially as complicated as some i 6 of the paper can be in this instance.
7 Q But you would agree that the final turnover and document 8 review has as one purpose, to uncover and correct those j 9 kinds of discrepancies, if they should occur?
10 A If they have access to Sargent & Lundy closed FCR's, 4
11 yes, they should be able to do it.
l 12 Q Do you know if they have such access?
i r (:) 13 A No, sir, I don't.
l 14 MR. GALLO: I have no further questions.
j 15 BOARD EXAMINATION 16 JUDGE GROSSMAN 17 Q I am not sure I understood Mr. Gallo's questions about-18 double checking to see if there are ECN's and FCR's
]
19 outstanding when you were dealing with ICR's or NCR's.
20 Is that a double check or is that an initial check i
21 in order to see if there are subsequent ECN's or FCR's l
22 outstanding? -
! 23 A Now I don't understand what you are referring to.
t 24 Q Well, M'r. Gallo kept on suggesting to you that you l
! () 25 looked for outstanding ECN's and FCR's to double check I
- l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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l s ome thing. It's the --
2 A It would be for a change in design.
3 Q Pardon?
4 A It would be for a change in design.
5 0 Isn't that your initial check, to see if there is a 6 change in design?
!, 7 No one else tells you that; that's how you find 8 out, isn't it?
9 A Yes, sir. Our initial check would be for the plan 10 drawing, the component parts, the standards, which gives 11 all the internal dimensions.
- 12 If it was altered in any way, it would be through a 13 FCR or ECN. Those you pick up through research.
14 0 In your opinion, if you didn't check to see if there j 15 were outstanding ECN's or FCR's when you were checking 16 the NCR's or ICR's, you wouldn't be performing your 17 complete job; is that correct?
18 A It depends. If I received an NCR that was just 4
19 dispositioned a week ago, I could safely assume this 20 would be a complete document.
21 Q Okay. I am talking about old NCR's and ICR's.
22 A Then I would check.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild, how much time do i
24 you --
() 25 MR. GUILD: I have no further questions for Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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! 1 Mr. Bowman.
I 2 MS.'CHAN: I believe the Staff has two 3 questions that I neglected to ask earlier.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Pardon?
I 5 MS. CHAN: Two questions.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: You neglected two questions
- 7 and you want to ask them now?
~
I 8 MS. CHAN: Yes.
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine.
10 RECROSS EXAMINATION 11 BY MS. CHAN
! 12 Q Mr. Bowman, in the course of your experience as a 13 . welder, have you ever had occasion to take weld rod from 14 a toolbox or a dumpster or stub pail or similar 15 unauthorized storage place and use it to perform a i
16 safety-related weld?
i 17 (Laughte r . )
18 A No, Ma'am.
19 Q Have you ever in the course of your welding experience 20 or as an inspector seen any other welder do that, use 21 weld rod that was stored in an unauthorized place to i
22 perform a safety-related weld?
23 A I have never witnessed the act where improperly stored 24 welding or filler material was used in actually making a
() 25 safety-related weld.
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1 I have seen welds made on practice pieces or in 2 like little fabrication booths out in the field where 3 the guys would go and practice, you know, to set their 4 machine, you know, to practice a technique; and I have 5 seen these stored in those little V's on the bottom of 6 the tray.
7 As a matter of fact, I wrote an NCR about that. I 8 am sure the Board is aware of this.
9 But other than that, no, I have not.
10 MS. CHAN: Thank you, Mr. Bowman.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo.
12 MR. GALLO: One follow-up to Judge Grossman's 13 question.
14 REDIRECT EXAMINATION 15 (Continued.)
16 BY MR. GALLO 17 Q Let's make sure we are on the same wave lengths.
18 We have been talking about an inspection that you 19 might perform on an outstanding ICR or NCR that was of 20 long vintage.
21 Now, then I asked you whether or not doing research 22 to look for an ECN or an FCR wasn't kl.nd of a second 23 check. -
24 Wasn't the first check or isn't the first check
() 25 under those circumstances simply to look at the Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 installation report to see if an ECN or FCR is 2 referenced in that report?
3 A That's one of the primary sources for information of 4 that type, yes, sir.
5 0 If you wanted to know whether or not there was an 6 outstanding ECN or FCR, you would look at the 7 installation report first -- yes, the installation 8 report?
9 A That would be indicated, if they used such a document, 10 yes, sir.
11 Q But because, in your opinion, the necessary certainty 12 isn't there by simply looking at that source, you would O 13 also want to look and research to see if your research 14 showed whether or not there were any outstanding ECN's 15 or FCR's that had not been referenced in the 16 installation report?
17 A That's correct. Of course, keeping in mind the time 18 frame. -
19 Q All right. And that would be a second check, to use my 20 choice of words?
21 A Yes, sir.
22 MR. GALLO: That is all.
23 BOARD EXAMINATION 24 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN
() 25 Q If the work required under the ECN or FCR had not yet Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 been perf ormed, would that show up on an installation 2 report?
3 A No, sir.
4 Q Is that a possible situation?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Did you have a follow-up to 7 that, Mr. Gallo?
8 MR. GALLO: I am awfully attempted at this 9 hour, but I think the record is clear as to that 10 particular point that you have just covered.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Thank you very much.
12 MR. GUILD: Just a minute.
4 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I am sorry. Mr. Guild.
14 RECROSS EXAMINATION 15 BY MR. GUILD 16 Q Let's talk about this weld rod issue that Ms. Chan 17 raised, Mr. Bowman.
18 The fact of the matter is that, even after Mr.
19 Simile took over the welding program, had been there for 20 some considerable time -- in fact, longer than Mr.
! 21 Puckett was on the job all told -- and af ter Mr. Simile 22 had changed whatever procedures were going to be 23 changed, you still identified inadequate control of weld 24 filler material in the field?
() 25 A Yes, sir. It was noted on an NCR.
J l
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1 Q And that was the instance where you observed the filler 2 material stuck on the crotch of a hanger?
3 A Yes, sir.
4 Q In the V of a hanger?
5 A Yes, sir.
6 Q And that filler material should have been controlled and 7 should have been turned in or appropriately discarded in a a controlled fashion, should it not?
9 A Yes, sir.
10 Q And it wasn't?
11 A No, sir.
12 Q And its existence in the field made it available for 13 unauthorized use in performing safety-related work or 14 for other unauthorized purposes?
15 A I can't make that judgment. I only seen the purpose 16 that it was used for, sir.
17 Q The point of controlling weld filler material is to 18 ensure that it is not used in an unauthorized fashion, 19 is it not?
20 A Yes, siro 21 Q And this uncontrolled material was in a condition where 22 it could have been used for any purpose?
23 A Yes, sir.
24 MR. GUILD: No further questions.
() 25 MS. CHAN: I have one question to follow up Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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l on Mr. Guild.
2 RECROSS EXAMINATION 3 BY MS. CHAN 4 Q The preblem you identified about tla material -- filler 5 material -- left in an unauthorized place, was that due 6 to a lack of an existing procedure or the failure to 7 implement an existing procedure?
8 A The reason the welding rod was there is because one of 9 the welders wanted to stick it up there, because when he 10 wanted to set his rod, he wanted to be able to go ahead 11 and do that before he went to do his work.
12 The procedures identifying the control of welding
)
13 material and welding filler material have always been in 14 place.
15 Q So that means the welder violated the existing 16 procedure?
17 A Exactly.
18 MS. CHAN: Thank you, Mr. Bowman.
19 MR. GALLO: No questions.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Do you have any questions?
21 MR. GUILD: No.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, the witness then is !
23 excused.
24 Thank you very much, Mr. Bowman, for testifying for O 25 ue.
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7004 1 We will adjourn until 9:00 o' clock tomorrow 2 morning.
3 MR. GALLO: Is there some regular instruction 4 that these witnesses are getting? i 1
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, as Ms. Kezelis always 6 points out.
7 Please don't discuss this with any other person.
8 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't go through this 9 again for a million dollars.
10 MR. GALLO: I guess I have one matter before 11 we go off the record and it involves Mr. Bowman.
- 12 Is it the Board's" or party's pleasure that we 13 recall Mr. Bowman after he has completed his search for 14 the DeWald checklist?
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, that's up to -- we 16 will have a further discussion of it. ,
17 I assume that will depend partly on whether he 18 finds what he is looking for.
19 MR. GALLO: Well, if he finds it, there won't 20 be any problem. We will simply deliver it up and that 21 will be the end of the matter.
22 If he doesn't find it, perhaps a further 23 explanation might be desirable.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, that is up to you to i l
() 25 decide. We will discuss it at some later time.
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1 MR. GUILD: Don't stop looking, Mr. Bowman.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: You heard what was said, so 3 it's in your best interests to find it, so you won't 4 have to come back here.
5 (Laughte r . )
6 MR. GUILD:~ Thanks, Mr. Bowman.
7 THE WITNESS: Point well taken.
8 (Witness excused.)
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We are adjourned now 10 un'til 9:00 o' clock tomorrow.
11 (WHEREUPON, at the hour of 5 :25 p. m. , the 12 hearing of the above-entitled matter was 13 continued to the 9th day oof July,1986, 14 at the hour of 9:00 A. M.)
15 16 17 l
l 18 19 20 21 22 23 ; .
24
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CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of:
NAME OF PROCEEDING: BRAIDWOOD STATION UNITS 1 42 COMMONWEALTil EDISON COMPANY (EVIDENTIARY llEARING)
DOCKET NO.: 50-456/457-OL PLACE: JOLIET, ILLINOIS DATE: ,
TUESDAY, JULY 8, 1986 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
(sict).IT% > S _:h (TYPED)
Gary L. Sonntag Official Reporter l
Reporter's Affiliation O
l l