ML062000215
| ML062000215 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Salem, Hope Creek  |
| Issue date: | 06/02/2004 |
| From: | NRC/OI |
| To: | |
| References | |
| 1-2003-045, FOIA/PA-2005-0194 | |
| Download: ML062000215 (76) | |
Text
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS INTERVIEW
x IN THE MATTER OF:
INTERVIEW OF : Docket No. 1-2003-045 (CLOSED)
x Wednesday, June 2, 2004 DNNS Conference Room NRC Region I Office 475 Allendale Road King of Prussia, PA The above-entitled interview was conducted at 10:11 a.m.
BEFORE:
Senior Special Agent: Jeffrey Teator Information inthis recILwas d inaccordance with the Freedom of Infoe'Matllh NEAL R. GROS& 'V Act, exemptions Q?*' "29 - COURT REPORTERS AND TRANS( 3RIBERS
.W.
FOIA- - S- 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N701 www.nealrgross.com (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3
APPEARANCES:
On Behalf of the Witness, Jeffrey Keenan, Esq.
Assistant General Solicitor PSEG Services Corporation NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 10:11 a.m.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Today's date 4 is June 2 nd. The year is 2004. My name is Jeffrey 5 Teator. I'm a Senior Special Agent for the United 6 Sates Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Office of 7 Investigations.
8 It's approximately 10:11 in the morning.
9 This morning I am interviewing This 10 interview is taking place in the building TB 2, 11 Conference Room 13, at the Salem Hope Creek Nuclear 12 Generation Station located in Hancock's Bridge, New 13 Jersey.
14 (>prior to going on the 15 record, did I present you with my credentials?
16 :) Yes you did, Mr. Teator.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And did I 18 explain to you this is a voluntary interview?
19 : You explained it was 20 voluntary.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Knowing it's 22 voluntary, do you wish to go forward?
23 I wish to go forward.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Thank you.
25 Do you have any objection this morning to providing NEAL R, GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 sworn testimony?
2 I have no objection to 3 that. /
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Raise your 5 right hand please?
6 Whereupon, 7
8 was called as a witness and, having been first duly 9 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
10 EXAMINATION 11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Thank you.
12 A-you're being interviewed this morning as 13 part of an investigation I'm conducting into 14 potential violations of 10 CFR 50.7, that allegedly 15 were committed against Kim Harvin, because she 16 raised safety concerns to her management.
17 I'm going to be asking you questions 18 about that today. Again, you're being interviewed 19 as a witness. No one's indicated or I haven't seen 20 any type of information which indicates you've done 21 anything wrong here.
22 I do need to talk to you. It's 23 important that the Commission gets complete and 24 accurate information in its investigations.
25 Okay, very good.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. I'll 2 start with some background questions. Could you 3 give me your date andplace of birth?
4 Sure. I was born 5 and I was born in:
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, and 7 your Social Security number please?
8 9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Your current 10 home address?
11 . . 1. Yes.
12 13 14 15 16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I bet you 17 don't like to write out too many bills and stuff on 18 your envelopes. It's a long address --
19 mii I I use the sticky labels.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: You've got 21 the stickies?
22 I. ...* . i'fY es .
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Good. That 24 will save you a little bit of time.
p4 cv 25 a&. Yes, it is a long one.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Your home 2 phone number please?
3 Yes. It 4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:" Okay. Have 5 you ever served in the United States Military?
6 No, I have not.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Have 8 you attended college?
9 Yes.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: You graduated 11 from college?
12 - Yes, I did.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Which school?
14 15 . . ... .... .. . .. . . . .. . . . j...
16 17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: In which?
18 19 21 22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Any 23 further degrees?
24 WlMNI "l 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. You 2 still going?
3 gave up on it. It's not 4 worth it. Too much work.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: At some point 6 were you hired to work at PSEG Nuclear?
7 Yes. I was hired to work 8 for this company in" 9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Have you 10 remained continuously employed here since then?
11 1That is correct.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And your 13 current job title please?
14 My current job title is 15 16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, and how 17 long have you been in that position?
18 Since the reorganization in 19 August of '03.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, and who 21 do you report to?
22 I report to 23 24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Does**'
25 know you're being interviewed by me today?
J~k~
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1 Yes. I don't know, because 2 I actually was not there -- you know, I had two 3 meetings. I actually have two bosses at the moment, 4 and that is I'm in charge of the 5 Ffor the whole facility, for all 6 three units.
7 Then there are RPM Chem superintendents 8 in each plant, that report to the plant managers.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
10 One of them quit about 11 three weeks ago, suddenly, and -- like my boss and 12 the at Hope Creek, . asked if 13 I would stand in and provide day-to-day direction 14 until we refill that job, and I said I would. So at 15 the moment I have two bosses.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: You've got a 17 lot of responsibility, too.
18 \ Yes, I do. I'm up to it.
19 It's a little crazy. In fact, I make a joke around 20 here, Jeff. I tell people that I am a very unusual 21 guy.
22 I am like way out there, but I've always 23 been way out there. So AN MP O 24 7knows that if I start getting like 25 boring, then there's --
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: They'll put a 2 cause on you.
3 2 If I get boring and slow 4 down, that's aberrant behavior.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes, that's 6 something. Okay. But before August '03 -- I guess 7 let me go back to 1999, up to September '03. Can 8 you go through your jobs, who you worked for and 9 what your responsibilities were?
10 **1999, 1 was -- I 11 was probably the --- I" 12 I should have b.rought my resume 13 with me. Early that year, I was-14 I worked directly fort 15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: For how long?
16 I worked for him since, I 17 would say -- when did get here?
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: He was here 19 five years when he left, right? Did he leave --
20 I think it
- 1) was '98. Did he 21 start in '98? Or maybe --
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: If he did his 23 complete five years, because he left in what, April 24 1?
25 Arl`3 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: April '03, 2 right.
3 April '98. I guess I was 4 working .for him -- honesly, I did start working for 5 him in, some time in the spring of '98.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, until 7 how long? Until when?
8 K Iactually then applied for 9 a job as probably in 10 early 2000, or maybe very late '99. That job also 11 reported directly to*pl" 12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. As S ,ýwowwiw what would your responsibilities 13 14 be?
15 )I was SLJ, right.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: What's that?
17 Like shitty little job 18 officer. Yod-aknow, like I took care of all the 19 little jobs that needed to get taken care of by the 20 21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
22 That would be whatever he 23 needed, right? Anything from managing the basic, 24 what we used to call the management review meetings, 25 which is where we do all of our metrics, you know, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 the performance metrics, to organizing meetings and 2 presentations forgy You name it. Just 3 whatever the president would need that his secretary 4 couldn't do, I would do.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And then from 6 early 2000 until when were you the communications --
7 I was th.WN 8
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
10 That's like the media 11 person and the web, and the public media, you know, 12 all kinds of stuff, internal communications. Now I 13 did that from late '99, early 2000 until I think May 14 2002, something like that, close to that.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And in 16 approximately May '02, what was your next job then?
17 I worked as the(
18 '... L.. I-_ wet back in the station.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: For all three 20 units?
21 Uh-huh. That's like the 22 work week, the person who runs the work week. So 23 like I was alpha channel, worked the management 24 superintendent, all the alpha channel work, was done 25 under my auspices.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And how long 2 did you remain in that position?
3 Until the reorg.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Until 8/03.
5 Right.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
7 . Who did you report to in that 8 position?
9 I reported to, mostly to a 10 fellow by the name of a fellow who's no 11 longer here, Who K else did I report to?
12 I reported to -- I guess I reported to, 13 (ph) and once left.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Were you ever 15 licensed on any of the units down here?
16 1Ihave 17 *ph). They sent me up there to get a 18!
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Was it 20 in the winter, because it would be cold up there?
21 It actually was in the 22 winter.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes. It can 24 get kind of --
25 It was seven months of--I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 think it was actually a weak winter. I think there 2 was like under 80 inches of snow while I was there.
3 It was a whimpy winter.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes. You 5 were lucky. I don't think this year was. This was 6 a bad winter up there.
7 . . And I was impressed, you 8 know. But we had a good time and studied a lot.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, that's 10 true. Being snowed in, I guess.
11 Yes.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So you would 13 have worked directly for in two 14 capacities, and from April '98 until late '99 or 15 early 2000?
16 ) Correct. Well, in the 17 first capacity, as his . Then.
18 A.7-_ .. -- -- also reported to him.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That's why I 20 said two capacities.
21 Two capacities. But then 22 that would have been all the way through May '02, I 23 think.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Oh, I'm 25 sorry. May '02. I got my dates incorrect. So NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 April '98 through May '02, in two different you reported to 7
2 capacities, 3 Yes.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well, that's 5 good. All right. Well, when did you first meet Kim 6 Harvin?
7 I first met Kim Harvin, I 8 think probably right, shortly thereafter, starting 2 -
9 to work for 9 She actually -- I went to 10 see a bunch of executives about a bunch of ideas I 11 had, you know, like transforming the culture around 12 here.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
14 Each one leader kept on 15 pointing me, you've got to go see Kim. Her married 16 name at the time was Rutigliano.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
18 mm-\So I gave her a call one 19 day and she came to see me, okay? Then she listened 20 to what my ideas were and she said "Good, these are 21 great ideas. I'd like to work with you on, you 22 know, doing some of these things."
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And did that 24 occur?
25 Uh-huh, yes.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. How 2 long did you work with Kim on --
3 A M .2 I worked with her a lot, in 4 I would say '99 to 2000 in particular, on I would 5 call culture things, culture issues. We had an 6 initiative which started off we'd call it the "Human 7 Performance Initiative."
8 She and I and (ph),
9 another fellow that used to work here, we actually 10 found out from the execs that they were putting 11 *- : _(ph), who was a at the 12 time, in charge of the Human Performance Initiative, 13 because they wanted him to have that as a, you know, 14 as an opportunity.
15 ' So we actually went -- he had no idea 16 that, you know, they elected him to be the sponsor, 17 right? He didn't know, he didn't know. So we 18 walked into his office and said "Hey, you know, we'd 19 like to help you on this human performance issue.
20 We have some ideas." We actually walked in with a 21 proposal.
22 It was a detailed proposal, and he was 23 intrigued, like a little bit startled, because he 24 had no clue that, you know, his boss was, you know, 25 having him go off on this, right? And of course he NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 called us back a day or so later and said "You're 2 right. I'm in charge of this."
3 So I worked with her on that project for 4 severa:L years. It was a pretty exciting and 5 genera:lly highly fruitful project.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And after --
7 you sa*Ld you worked a lot with her in '99 and 2000.
8 Yes.
17 9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: How about 10 2001 going forward?
11 i I worked with her 12 worked with her for a good amount in 2001 also.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: On the same-14 type issues?
15 T Same-type issues, sure.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Well, 17 tell me about 2002. I guess for half the year, you 18 still would have been the 19 20 "For almost half the year, 21 yes. We worked -- mostly we worked like in the last 22 year, where I was working directly fo mostly Qo 23 we worked in the arena where I would do -- like we 24 worked as like, I would say, we were kind of 25 partners in this human performance thing.
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1 She was, I would say, the leader, and I 2 was like the co-leader. I was like, you know, a key 3 player that she depended on a lot and I depended on 4 her. But she was really like, she was the driver, 5 okay, although my passion was heavy.
6 So we worked a lot for that first year 7 or so to 2002. But the last year I was withi 8 directly, mostly I used her as a speech writer.
9 Okay, in other words, I would bounce ideas off of Ic 10 her.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: For*0 12 Speech writer for_
13 Yes, and I'd ask her to 14 help me compose like i spirational-type talks and 15 stuff. She was very good at that. So what was good 16 -- my team was good at ideas, like getting like a 17 context for some big event, you know, like an all-18 hands meeting or whatever. She would always provide 19 the, kind of I would call the explosive 20 inspirational piece.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, all 22 right. Now I have an understanding of your work and 23 interactions with Kim Harvin, and during most of the 24 time we just talked about, you reported directly to 25\ " also?
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1 That's correct.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, that's 3 good. During the time frame that we've just talked 4 about, I guess up to May '02, did she ever bring to 5 you what she felt were nuclear safety concerns? I'm 6 being real general and broad there today.
7 '. Yes.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: How about 9 concerns with production over safety in the plant, 10 emphasis, overemphasis on production over safety, 11 non-conservative decisionmaking on the way the 12 plant's being operated, things of that nature?
13 u I'm looking at you with 14 crossed eyes, only because I probably --
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well, let me 16 ask it this way. Did she ever bring to you concerns 17 which you viewed as nuclear safety concerns? I 18 guess it's fair way to --
19 (fSR's ) Okay. I don't think she in 20 those days communicated anything to me as a nuclear 21 safety concern. However, she would routinely share 22 issues, you know, or concerns if you will, that I 23 would say were related to what we were up to.
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1 out of our human performance initiative was to make 2 a big impact on outage performance, okay?
3 So she would work a lot heavily right 4 there up on the outage, and I would some, as I would 5 now, because of the nature of my job, I couldn't 6 necessarily be on shift.
7 I was accountable for a lot of other 8 things. Sometimes I was on shift. Like I made 9 arrangements for that, right?
10 So while she was on shift, she got in a 11 lot of interplay with I would call, I would say, 12 plant operators.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
14 Okay. I remember -- I 15 forget what outage it was, but there was some outage 16 where she said to me there's people that aren't 17 being heard, like they're not being like listened 18 to, and that she had a worry about that, that the 19 communication they were presenting wasn't being 20 heard.
21 She shared with me, like I don't have it 22 any more, but she shared with me like a mass e-mail 23 that some operator had written.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: To her, or 25 was she just cc'd on it?
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r 1 1 can't remember. Could 2 have been cc'd. I think actually she was cc'd on 3 it, because I think it was one of those -- I think 4 it was one of those, like when somebody like 5 reaching out, and kind of blasting management, and 6 reaching out to everybody in Operations.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
8 And then because of a 9 conversation, because she was like getting related 10 to the operators. She was on it.
11 That's my recollection. I don't have it 12 anymore. Like when my computer died in March of 13 this year, I lost that kind of thing.
14 But at any rate, she showed me it, she 15 asked me for some input, what should I do? I told 16 her she should bring it to the ops manager's 17 attention and the plant manager's attention as soon 18 as possible. Just so that they were wired to it and 19 could take action.
20 It wasn't anything hard. I wouldn't say 21 it was like anything specific like I recall, like 22 component nuclear safety kind of stuff. It was more 23 like "You don't listen, you never listen" kind of 24 communication, like nasty, bitter stuff. So that I 25 remember.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you know 2 if she in fact brought that to the ops manger and 3 the plant manager?
4 . *'i'm pretty certain she did.
/
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
6 Your recollection is --
7 - My recollection is that she 8 did.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you have a 10 recollection on how those two individuals received 11 that information, what they did with it? Did they 12 complain in your presence about Kim bringing that to 13 their attention?
14 Not that I'm aware of, 15 okay? Like I don't -- to-be honest with you, at the 16 moment, I can't remember exactly who the ops manager 17 was at the moment, because there was a lot of like 18 changes during that period of time.
19 I think it was like -- my brain is kind 20 of leaning towards the fellow that was the ops 21 manager still works for the company, runs one of 22 the fossil plants. I can't think of his name right 23 now. something or other.
24 But at any rate 25 I think is who she brought it to.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
2 1)
I don't remember any upset 3 on her part. Well, like the way the whole thing 4 occurred to me was, you know, like I would say in 5 her world, the way she communicated to me, was "They 6 don't really want to deal with this kind of thing."
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Who is 8 "they"?
9 Meaning leadership, 10 management, because it's not like their cup of tea.
11 It's not hardware and technical. It's soft stuff.
12 So they were struggling with it, right?
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
14 The impression I got wasn't 15 like they were shooting bullets at her or anything 16 like that, like verbal bullets.
17 It's more like, you know, I'm not sure 18 they understand. Like I'm just saying that's what I 19 got from most of the communications.
20 Like in other words she was sometimes 21 occasionally frustrated by them hearing the concern, 22 but not really, in her work world, getting it.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Let me ask 24 you the question, and we talked about -- you 25 provided an answer in part, but my question to you
/
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1 was up to the May 2002 time period, did she ever 2 bring concerns to your attention or discuss concerns 3 that you felt were nuclear safety concerns? Not 4 industrial safety, nuclear safety concerns.
5 :* Yes. I remember at Hope 6 Creek once that she told me that the operators were 7 bitter and upset about some issues that weren't 8 getting resolved in the plant. She didn't mention 9 any like great details, like about -- like what the 10 technical things were.
11 I mean like this pump or this system or 12 whatever. But it was also kind of a conversation 13 about the environment. She was talking mostly about 14 the environment, you know, like a horrible 15 environment for operators to get their issues dealt 16 with.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: At Hope 18 Creek?
19 -, At Hope Creek.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Licensed 21 operators or --
22 .,, Licensed operators.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
24 .j The early one I talked 25 about was a Salem concern, Salem managers.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
2 ) This one was a Hope Creek 3 concern. I don't remember any specifics.
4 Technically, I do remember that she was working with 5 a number of operators and working on relationships 6 and getting their issues heard.
7 I'm aware of only one issue, like I can 8 recall with any concrete details. It's not that it 9 isn't buried somewhere in the back of my head.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Is it a 11 nuclear --
12 :) it could be a nuclear 13 concern. It certainly could be construed that way, 14 I would say, and it had to do with tagging, okay, 15 safety tagging.
16 I know that's kind of -- that's kind of 17 like one of the issues like this, right? Like 18 nuclear safety and industrial safety, right? Like 19 OSHA and nuclear in this case.
20 It was with an operator that was, I 21 would say it sounds like, and I knew the guy. He's 22 a delightful guy. He's a little bit odd in his 23 communications.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Who?
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1 me. Let me just keep talking and it will pop in my 2 head, all right? You know, it does come in.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I guess more 4 what I'm interested in, regarding those type of 5 issues she raised, how did her management react to 6 her? Again, we're still talking up to May '02 now.
7 I want to try and keep it chronological if we can.
8 Sure.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
10 t* Absolutely.
1i SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
12 Were you hearing any negative feedback from her 13 manager -- that would b She worked for 14 2111~E 15 Ys 16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Or other 17 senior managers regarding her raising of other 18 people's concerns up to May '02? Those concerns 19 would be, you know, communications, environment, 20 this particular issue which you just described about 21 tagging.
22 Do you recall her getting any heat, 23 hearing any complaints, catching any heat from 24 senior management here at the site for her raising 25 those issues, up to May '02?
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1- I don't remember hearing 2 liR .'or any of the executives have any, 3 raise any concerns verbally, or complain about her 4 behavior. I mean, she was I would consider way out 5 there, in like the way I think. She's much further 6 way out there than I am.
7 So like the way they related it to me 8 was you can talk, you can talk to her more easily 9 than I can. You talk her language. A lot of times 10 they would ask me questions, you know, like about 11 things. But never those concerns. They'd say like 12 if she said this, how would you interpret that?
13 But there was no like upset or concern 14 or complaint, because she communicated in a very 15 creative and I'd say focus on leadership for her 16 management-type behavior type thing.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Let me -- I 18 guess maybe I'll just cut right to this.
19 Yes.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you recall 21 her having a discussion with you or conversation 22 with you, I think while she was still working here?
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1 and her last day here being moved up from April 2 1 6 th. Do you recall her having that conversation 3 with you?
4 ( 9 She had a conversation with 5 on or around iike the 45-day period, yes.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
7 8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you recall 9 her asking you that question?
10 ~Yes.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Why has this 12 happened to me?
13 I recall a question like 14 that. I don't remember the exact words, but 15 certainly she was upset. She was beside herself.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Sure. I mean 17 that's understandable. But it's my job to determine 18 whether there was a violation of Federal law 19 committed here.
20 Right, I'm with you.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I'm trying to 22 get to that.
23 24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And again, 25 your name was provided by her as someone who maybe NEAL R. GROSS I COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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Mm
1 can corroborate her version of what happened to her.
2 Sure, absolutely.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Let's go talk 4 right about that conversation. Do you remember 5 where it occurred?
6 I think I found out about 7 it in the Processing Center. She must have just 8 heard about it, which is one of the middle buildings 9 inside the fence.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: When you say 11 "found out about it," her job being eliminated, or 12 her last day being moved up?
13 The first conversation I 14 recall was her finding out that her job was 15 eliminated.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Let's 17 talk about that, then.
18 Okay, and then I believe 19 that I didn't know abou it until she told me.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
21
- Actually, I think I heard 22 about it publicly. It wasn't like it was private, 23 which is unusual. I heard about it at a morning 24 meeting, you know. It might have even been at like 25 at 6:45, early morning meeting, where she announced NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 that she was no longer -- you know.
2 It could have been a 10:00 meeting. I 3 don't remember the exact timing, but she announced 4 that she would be no longer working with the 5 company.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: She announced 7 it?
8 Se announced it, that her 9 position had been eliminated.
10 SR. SPECIAL-AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
11 )And then afterwards she 12 talked, and we went for a little walk, and she was 13 upset and she cried, and she was very, beside 14 herself. So she was like sad and upset, and you 15 know, she didn't get it, right? She didn't get it.
16 She started asking for help from me, to 17 get it resolved, like what the issues were, because 18 she wasn't clear on what they were.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, right.
20 ( : Right. So I remember her 21 asking -- first she was like -- mostly the 22 conversation was her just like letting it all spill 23 out, right.
24 Then I think either late in that 25 conversation or a follow-up conversation she asked NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 me for some coaching on what to do.
2 Like she didn't understand whA ..
3 eliminated, given all the issues that he's got to 4 deal with, you know, with the operators.
5 She had sort of mentioned some of the 6 older issues, like I would call culture issues, that 7 given that we have all these issues, I don't get 8 what some of mine, why he would like opt to do this.
9 I said to her "Have you talked to him?"
10 She goes "Yes. In that meeting, where he told me I 11 lost my job," and you can tell from like what she 12 said, it was a very unsatisfying conversation. It 13 was very non-direct, not very direct. It was not a 14 whole lot of dialogue, right.
15 So I said "Well, one of the first things 16 I would do if I were you I'd get this complete. I'd 17 go see him again, and get complete with whatever it 18 is that you have on your mind, and get with him 19 again," okay?
20 I don't remember all the details. I 21 remember she tried to. I don't know if she ever had 22 a formal meeting again with him.
23 Then she asked me for advice on, you 24 know, given that he was not, he didn't appear to be 25 open to having a conversation about it, like what NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 other options? Then I actually said "Okay. So now 2 we're actually" -- I said "I can play two roles 3 here. I can be your coach. Like I'd be your friend 4 and partner and coach, and I also can be like, you 5 know, give you official answers too.
6 "First I've got to give you all the 7 official answers. You need to like, you need to go to his boss, " ... ' " " "" * ... ' " ' "
8 9 4ph) .4 10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes, 11 12 Okay, at the time, and if 13 you don't, can't get it resolved, you know, there 14 are other pathways include oV 15 j*iA M"W" " and the NRC if you have any nuclear safety 16 concerns. She said "I think I do." I said "Then 17 you need to exhaust all of them," okay?
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Is that when 19 you first heard that she felt she had nuclear safety 20 concerns?
21 \Yes. That's when like it 22 was spoken that way.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
24 ) I would say that like if 25 you looked at what she like brought up, as nuclear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 safety concerns, to me, they had a fingerprint in my 2 mind of cultural issues, where people were not being 3 listened to.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
5 Does that make sense? Like 6 it was a series of those. So I hadn't -- because I 7 wasn't involved in any of the specific technical 8 issues on the other ones, I was mostly listening to 9 her, coaching her on how to make a difference on 10 leadership, in hearing what the issues were and 11 dealing with them powerfully.
12 It was more like a leadership 13 conversation as opposed to -- like the context 14 earlier, like a year earlier or whatever, you know, 15 was more in the context of leadership, not nuclear 16 safety concerns. In this conversation, it was 17 nuclear safety concerns.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
19 ) Make sense?
20 SR. SPE(CIA AGENT TEATOR: Yes, sure.
21 All right, so did you ever talk to" )about why 22 her position was eliminated?
23 WN I never did.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Did 25 you ever talk to any of the senior leadership here NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 about why her position was eliminated?
21 3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you know 4 why her position was eliminated?
5 I know what she said, but I 6 don't know what --
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I'm asking 8 you if you know.
9 *a: No. I have no idea.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Did 11 you ever -- what did she tell you? Why did she feel 12 her position was eliminated?
13 : Well I think what was 14 spoken, what she said, was spoken, was we were 15 reexamining positions and trying to position 16 ourselves to be more competitive in the marketplace, 17 and that we were looking to eliminate positions that 18 are -- that we didn't absolutely have to have.
19 Okay, that was like -- something like that was 20 reported to her.
21 She began to feel, because of the 22 shortness of the conversation --
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: WithCw 7
24 With and that--you 25 see, 'jwas actually -- iand her get along C NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 really well, up until almost the very near end.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: They did?
3 **I*.;i Yes, very well 3W 4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
5 : Okay, it was shocking to 6 her that he would be so terse.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you see 8 it also independently, that and her got along <.
9 well?
10 a Oh yes.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Up until the 12 end?
13 13 ,Uh-huh.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. What's 15 your basis for -- your individual basis for saying 16 that or feeling that way?
17 blo Well, both of us worked 18 with essentially in the arena of coaching. We 19 actually coached okay?
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
21 meaning we like would give 22 them coaching on how to look at something, how to 23 approach something, how to communicate it, okay?
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
25 So I would say when we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 first met* to pretty much everyone around, 2 Ii*.was a complete mystery, okay? A very 3 mysterious guy.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
5 7 Personally, I'm a very 6 studious guy. I always get data. Like, you know, 7 like they used to call me the Federal agent, you 8 know, when I was in college, because I asked all 9 these questions, right?
10 But I called up these plants, and I 11 talked to people who used to work for him and got 12 his MO, and pretty much they'd say like, like 13 "I know *8 . He's one of the more brilliant
ý1_
14 executives in the entire industry. Got the 15 strangest logic pattern of anybody on the planet."
16 Like, you know, if he -- he would never 17 explain it logically, because logic was very non-18 linear. It was odd logic, right?
19 If you were in a conversation with him 20 today about something, he would confound and 21 befuddle you with his questions.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
23 ) And he would draw a 24 conclusion at the end of the meeting which made no 25 sense to you, and then he'd leave the room. Then
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1 three months later, you'd realize it was a 2 brilliant, brilliant conclusion drawn like with 3 almost no data, right? So he was very hard to 4 cipher.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
6 He was very quiet and 7 reserved, and didn't take any coaching.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So what made 9 you believe her and got along well, up until 10 the end?
11i 00 Well, I've seen them.
12 Personally I coached -- opened up a lot.
13 Okay, after we did this human performance initiative 14 and we had this like training and stuff here, 15 had the three-day training.
16 He started opening up, he started being 17 receptive and open to coaching, input. Then he 18 started actually seeking out input. He would call 19 me in, call Kim in. They met regularly.
20 We had like, if you will, I would call 21 it multiple sessions where she and I an would 22 sit and talk and explore things. They were very 23 provocative conversations, conversations which are 24 very unlike I've ever seen in the nuclear power 25 plant.
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1 They were the kind of conversations that 2 we probably should have been having years ago, 3 right? So they were very powerful conversations, 4 open conversations, you know, conversations that, 5 you know, like before ad that training, would 6 be out-there conversations, in terms of like 7 listening to people.
8 Like the kind of things that Kim was 9 focused on, he got really interested in, okay?
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Do you 11 know -- so I guess we've established that up until 12 the end, your view was that and-Kim Harvin got 13 along well?
14 )Yes, and she should know, 15 right? She always play huge, big. She played her 16 role in a huge way. She didn't like play small or 17 minimize her contribution, right? She'd also play 18 to the boundaries of her, whatever she thought she 19 had, as far as she could go, right. And at times 20 she ticked him off.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Who?
22 23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
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1 protocol. Like one time, she convince to 2 take three of the ops leaders, the Hope Creek 3 operational leaders, SRO types, to some training in 4 Canada, for like three days.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.
6 She didn't explain to 7 all the details about it, and then she went ahead 8 and put it on her credit card and, you know, like 9 had her -- had these three operators and their 10 spouses go to some pretty avant garde training in 11 Toronto, Canada.
12 It was probably one of the better 13 training courses that has ever been given, and it 14 was way out there, you know, in terms of money and 15 topic.
16 She had a little trouble with the 17 corporate bean counters, and w got whacked, you 18 know, for it, and he was upset that she was sloppy.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: About that 20 issue.
21 That issue. There's things 22 like that she did on occasion.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
24 1 don't see any issues like 25 with the, I would call he meaty stuff of her job, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 meaning like the powerful conversations about 2 leadership --
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you --
4 did ejver complain to you about Kim, either Kim 5 raising her own leadership/management concerns, or 6 raising such concerns of others, and how those 7 concerns might affect nuclear safety in the plant?
8 No.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did 10 ever make a negative comment to you regarding her 11 raising such issues?
12 ' No, he didn't, and I was 13 actually shocked. I was personally shocked when she 14 told me her job had been eliminated.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. But 16 my job is to find out why it was eliminated.
17 )Yes, I got it. I'm with 18 you.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: There's two 20 sides to every story. Usually there's three or four 21 or five, but I've got to find out what really 22 happened.
23 es 24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Are you aware 25 of any information which leads you to believe that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 -- we'll talk about her position elimination first, 2 that leads you to believe that her position was 3 eliminated because she raised the concerns which we 4 generally discussed this morning?
5 Well certainly in her --
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I'm asking 7 you.
8 I didn't hear any third 9 party say anything that would lead me to believe I C-10 that, lik jany of the execs. It's ii from her conversation --
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Forget her.
- Okay.
13 14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. But 15 for her, her view of what happened to her and why it 16 happened here.
17 ve iAnd the context of their 18 conversations. I got that from her, from like the 19 last conversation, if you will.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: We'll talk 21 about that in a minute.
22 Yes.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: But 24 independent of what she told, are you aware of any 25 evidence, any information that her position was I
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1 eliminated because she was viewed as a threat by 2 senior management here? This stuff is very 3 important.
4 Could you repeat that 5 question again.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes. Did you 7 tell Kim Harvin that you believed her position -- in 8 response to a question from her, to the effect of 9 why did this happen to me?" From my 10 understanding you told her that you felt her 11 positoin was eliminated because she was viewed as a 12 threat by senior management. Do you recall making 13 such a statement?
14 I don't know if I used the 15 word "threat," and I don't remember the exact 16 timing. But at some point, when she said "I have to 17 leave her like now," I mean that kind of thing, when 18 it became the "now" thing, I remember a conversation 19 in that time frame, where she was, once again, 20 beside herself.
21 She was actually pleading, what could be 22 going on, what could be going on that they would do 23 this?
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That's 25 understandable. Right, right.
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1 ,I said "I don't know. I 2 really don't'know." However, usually, I said "My 3 experience is, if they believe somebody would be 4 more harmful than beneficial to being around, they 5 often escort that person off the property. Perhaps 6 you're seen that way." I don't know if I used the 7 word -- you know, I could have used the word 8 "threat."
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Pretty close.
10 )Yes. In other words, 11 here's my experience. My experience in general, is 12 when somebody gets fired --
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Or laid off.
14 -) Often, especially in the 15 past, we would often escort them off the property in 16 a hurry, because they were often viewed as they're 17 going to be upset, and they're going to generate 18 foment more than anything else.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
20 Oft)111 Right. That's like the 21 general thinking.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes. So was 23 that where you were coming from when you told her 24 that?
25 Yes. I think I also felt, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 given hciw vocal she was, you know, that gee whiz, 2 like, yc iu know, you may be perceived as more trouble 3 than --
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Trouble in 5 which way though? You mean trouble -- for what 6 reason? And this is your opinion here.
7 *j Yes, it's my opinion.
8 SRk. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Just from 9 what you said, her being vocal.
10 Vocal. You see, I found 11 that -- given that there's almost no notice and 12 suddenly she gets that 45-day notice, and then all 13 of the sudden she was being let go early, I mean 14 that led me to believe that there's been a sudden 15 shift in how they viewed her, and I don't know what 16 it is.
17 So I gave her among a series of options 18 that they, what they could be thinking. But I said 19 I didn't know, because I wasn't privy to that 20 conversation. But they're thinking that you're, you 21 know, you're bringing up stuff they don't want to 22 hear.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That it could 24 be that.
25 MW ) Yes, yes. It could be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 that. But it's not that I knew it, but that could 2 be it.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you have 4 a sense that that was it, that that was the reason?
5 I mean you've been down here.- You're a 6 survivor down here. You've been here -- because I 7 know people --
8 I am a little bit -- I told 9
10 / SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
11 12 other interview. You see, I have a jaded opinion 13 about this, because I've actually seen some very 14 stupid things done, including to me.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
16 Like one day, and this is 17 on the record-- I wan to see the transcript -- one 18 day I was asked -- there was a person who wasn't 19 well-liked in an area, and they brought him to work 20 for me.
21 They said "Try him out. See how he 22 works out." I said "Fine." The guy worked out 23 great, right? He was terrific. I really needed a 24 person with lots of talents, and like two weeks 25 after this person was transferred to me, I was asked NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 to give him a letter saying his position was 2 eliminated, right?
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
4 2 I said "Well, wait a 5 minute. This is not true." I said "Wait a minute.
6 You're having me hire four new people, you know, and 7 the poor person just got assigned. So you know, 8 it's not true that the position is being 9 eliminated."
10 The guy said "I don't like the guy.
11 He's not worth it. Get rid of him." So.I said "I 12 decline." So I got the letter the next day.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I think I've 14 heard about this.
15 *\Yes. I got the letter the 16 next day. So to me, and this was a different set of 17 executives, but there's some CD people in our 18 business, you know.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: But I'm 20 looking for direct knowledge.
21 )-No. So I answered her 22 question in the context of my own bitterness about 23 how things could go. Does that make sense?
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes, it does.
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101F I didn't know anything 2 specific, lik .thought she was a no good for 3 nothing, and he was trying to conceal or, you know, 4 make sure something wasn't revealed. I don't have 5 any knowledge like that. All I have is what she 6 told me.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, right.
8 During this conversation that you had --
9 .* I can easily get enrolled 10 in it, though, you know, by what she's saying, 11 right? Given how upset she is and what she said she 12 was talking to him about.
13 I could easily get enrolled in that. I 14 don't know, you know, what was so, and I wasn't 15 present for the conversations.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That 17 information's coming from her?
18 Uh-huh.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you --
20 from what she told you -- well, what did she tell 21 you? Let's go into that, and then I'll ask you if 22 you, in any way, were able to independently 23 corroborate what she was claiming?
24 The only thing I could 25 corroborate -- I wish I could remember the guy's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 name, but there was an operator who recently, I 2 would say, in the past seven months left the 3 company. I knew him.
4 I actually talked to him on his way out, 5 like right up to his exit interview. I was stopping ' C 6 by the NRC Office for another reason, and he was 7 having a conversation with a couple of the 8 residents, and I was walking out.
9 I thought he was just walking out for 10 the day, and.he informed me he had just quit. He 11 worked for 12 '- I can't think of his name right now, but 13 it'll come to me.
14 But he had expressed to her and to me 15 concerns about being ridiculed at work,*,about his 16 concerns about safety issues. That's something that 17 she had talked to me about, and that he was quitting 18 because he couldn't stand working here because of 19 the environment.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. But 21 that's a different individual. We're talking about 22 Kim.
23 Well, that's something --
24 that's a subject she talked to me about. Au-25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 corroborated running into this person?
2 Yes, I actually had several 3 -- before this final conversation, I had several 4 conversations with the guy, and I was coaching him, 5 you know, on the subject, to support him.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I guess my 7 question was, based on what Kim told you about why 8 she believed what was happening to her, were you 9 able to corroborate any of that?
10 " Most of the stuff she 11 talked about to me, like'I said when she was here, 12 was the operators are scared to talk.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Which, Salem 14 or Hope Creek?
15Both.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
17 \ Okay. I didn't hear that 18 from any of the operat6rs directly, but she said 19 that they have issues, and they don't feel 20 comfortable bringing them up.
21 That was what she was talking to me 22 about. I said "Have they gone to Have they 23 gone to the NRC? You know, have they gone to the 24 plant manager?" "Yes." You know, that kind of 25 stuff.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. What 2 did -- in talking with Kim, hearing from her why she 3 believed this stuff was happening to her, why did 4 she -- what did she tell you about why she believed 5 her position was eliminated, and why her last day 6 was moved up? Did she tell you why she believed 7 that happened to her?
8 I don't remember the exact 9 details of the conversation, but there's some, one 10 of the conversations she was having withU about 11 some concern, reached a fulcrum.
12 She was asking for him to take action, 13 and she must -- in her world, you know, she went 14 over the line and like it snapped. Like whatever 15 was allowing her to have the space that she had --
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: The space 17 that she had with(
18 Yes. The space to go in 19 and have open conversations, ceased that day, that 20 she went over the line.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Did 22 you see, hear, read anything that would corroborate 23 that that's what happened between her and(*
24 No, I didn't read, see or 25 hear anything. I have no corroborating data.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, okay.
2 Like I said, I could easily 3 get enrolled in it, because you know --
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well why?
5 Because based on what 6 happened to me.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: To you, okay.
8 And honestly? At times 9 I've been very cautious', okay. There's times, you 10 know, times, depending on what period is going on 11 here. We've been through a lot of periods, right.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. I'm 13 going to -- it's a fact that discrimination does 14 occur in the nuclear power industry.
15 Ys 16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Because of 17 people raising safety concerns, engaging in NRC-18 protected activities.
19 .Right. We know that has 20 happened.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It does 22 happen.
23 Yes.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And in fact, 25 in a fairly small percentage of the investigations </*o° NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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we conduct, we corroborate that.
N.2........ e s.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: We're able to 4 corroborate that. I'm thinking about eight percent 5 of the discrimination cases 01 does, we corroborate 6 that discrimination did occur.
7 . It does exist.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And we know 9 it exists.
10 ' M Yes 11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I mean it 12 does, in fact, but you've got to be able to prove 13 it.
14 Yes, absolutely.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So --
16 & M - This is your job, or not, 17 right?
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: True, right.
19 Let the chips fall where they may. If it happened, 20 fine. I want to get that answer.
21 Sure. You want to find out 22 if it's eight or 92, right?
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. And 24 if it didn't happen, then that's the answer too.
25 It's going to be whatever it's going to be. But I NEAL R. GROSS (202)234COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 need to talk to people, and you're one of the people 2 that Kim put forward as someone who can possibly 3 corroborate her version of why this happened to her.
4 Yes. I'll tell you what.
5 What might be'helpful/if you shared some things. I 6 mean, I'll be as cooperative as I can be. Like I've 7 told before with, ¶__rl .. I used to 8 be able to like tell you all sorts of facts. It 9 seems like over time, age, all these what I call 10 useless facts in my brain, has occupied my memory 11 cells if you will.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, right.
13 The one question I already asked you, which is 14 suppose you told Kim that you thought she was viewed 15 as a threat, and we've gone through that a little 16 bit.
17 like Yes. Conversations 18 that definitely existed, some time in that last 19 period of time, from the time she was told no job 20 and the time she, you know, the time it was said 21 "Get your things out of here and leave the site."
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: But you 23 indicated that was --
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1 facts.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: The second 3 part of this conversation that you had with Kim, 4 which was related to me, was that as part of the 5 reason for her job being eliminated or her last day 6 moved up, that that happened to her, according to 7 you, was because you didn't give the 8 right answers on the Salem NEO issues.
9 Do you recall discussing that with her, 10 or telling her that might be a possible reason why 11 they eliminated you and moved you up? Do you recall 12 telling her that?
13 I don't remember the 14 details about the Salem NEO issue. I mean, I don't 15 remember what the concern was exactly, right?
16 SR. SPECIAL-AGENT TEATOR: Right.
17 - But I do know that if she 18 related to me that she had a conversation that 19 concerned equipment operators, and that she had, 20 that was what -- that was a conversation that ended 21 up having cut short or like, in her world, 22 influenced the relationship chilling or getting 23 cold, colder.
24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: With h
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1 said -- more or less, she was actually -- the 2 conversation was like this. She was like crying her 3 eyes out. She was so upset, right?
4 Like "What could it be,I what could 5 it be?" And I was saying "Maybe like you gave him 6 the wrong answer, and that was it." Like that. You 7 know, I can remember the conversation like that.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And -- but it 9 was just a maybe?
10 .: Yes. No, I didn't know 11 anything specifically about the 1 12 issue.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, okay, 14 right. Well --
15 '* Certainly in my world, it 16 was definitely plausible, you know.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Well, 18 a lot of things are plausible. You've got to be 19 able to explain them, to be able to come to a 20 conclusion on why something happened.
21 Well, why do you think -- I mean this is 22 an opinion. Why do you think her position was 23 eliminated? If you have an opinion, just give me 24 the basis for it, if you would?
25 Sure.
\MO )
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you want 2 to think about it for a minute? I could take a 3 short break off the record.
4 . Sure. Take a short --
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 10:59.
6 I'll turn the tape off. We'll take a short break.
7"t 8 (Off the record.)
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's about 10 11:08 in the morning and we're back on the record.
11 We had a short discussion off the record. i.
12 ".the last question was why do you think her 13 position was eliminated, and I understand this is 14 your opinion.
15 But if you're wiling to give it, I'd 16 like to hear it. If you can then give me a basis 17 for why, for your answer?
18 :*IOkay, my opinion, this is 19 definitely my opinion, ýopinion and not fact.
20 My opinion is that there became a large focus on 21 managing the number of resources, meaning number of 22 people or full-time equivalent personnel.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: FTEs.
24 FTEs here, and it became a 25 very phenomena conversation, okay? And what was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 going on at the time is all the non-station 2 organizations were being asked to evaluate and offer 3 up what jobs they could eliminate.
4 So the context of the time, in my 5 opinion, was "Hey, we're not being competitive. You 6 know, they were rolled in if we didn't alter the 7 total number of FTEs, that we'd be out of business 8 shortly. So there was like a hyperdrive in that 9 regard.
10 I think that they looked at, I would 11 say, every position that was not traditional running 12 a plant.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Like staff 14 positions?
15 Like staff positions, and I 16 knew that during that period of time, a lot of 17 positions that we had that weren't directly affected 18 in running the plant were offered up as jobs no 19 longer needed.
20 I think that, coupled with the fact that 21 if you're really well-liked, you know, in any firm, 22 and they're looking at eliminating positions, what 23 they normally do is they actually like, they will 24 like try to take care of you, right?
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1 relationship between Kim and herfk 2 deteriorated. I don't know exactly hcDw, okay, in a 3 way that she was no longer, like a pe*rson to keep, 4 okay? So those two factors, in my m:Lnd, is what 5 drove the position to be eliminated.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: One being 7 that they're looking to downsize the number of 8 people?
9 7 Correct.
10 SR. SPECIALIAGENT TEATOR: And the 11 other, something occurred between her relationship 12 with`(*
13 9 Such that he no longer 14 perceived her as highly valuable, some9thing to be 15 retained.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Was 17 there any talk about -- I mean, becauE Kim I ?Cc 18 worked fo) 19 -Yes.
20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
21 leaving.
22 q) Yes.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Early, I 24 think April 1 may have been his last dLay?
25 M Yes, yes.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Could that 2 have been a reason? I mean, since he's leaving, 3 she's working for him in her capacity. Could that 4 be--
5 Yes. It's a very non-6 traditional position. !He has a consultant, an 7 organizational development consultant reporting 8 directly to him. That's an unusual thing. So that 9 could have definitely factored in.
10 "Gee whiz. If I have to give up 11 positions that are not traditional in running a 12 power plant, do I have any close to me? Yes." That 13 could definitely have played a factor in it.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Talking about 15 the relationship between Kim Harvin andj' 16 ) at any point did you see the relationship 17 sour or turn bad?
18 I did not see it. I heard 19 it from her, sharing information that she said it 20 was -- he was getting shorter with her.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did she share 22 a view when she first saw that, and why she thought 23 that was happening?
24 She shared that some time 25 near the time she got the word that her job was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 eliminated, that the relationship was cooling, 2 because she was pressing on a number of concerns she 3 had about the work environment. That was what she 4 was sharing with me.
5 It wasn't like -- she didn't really say 6 "Oh, by the way John Jones" -- I'm making up that 7 name -- "This operator has a specific concern." It 8 was just more like there's -- it's not healthy for 9 these folks not to feel open.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, it's 11 not.
12 And I want some action.
13 And like there's some -- she felt there was some 14 resistance towards that.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Did 16 she begin sharing that with you after you found out 17 her position was eliminated?
18 . I would say in detail, yes, 19 or like in some level of detail, yes, at or about 20 the time she got the notice, the 45-day notice. She 21 had mentioned in general that, you know, that things 22 are cooling, you know.
23 But I was still very shocked when her 24 position was eliminated. I did not expect it. The 25 reason why, Jeffrey, is he's very sensitive like I NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 am.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
3 xl . So it's like if you and I 4 have a great conversa, ion today, I'll like share 5 with you I had this great conversation with Jeff, 6 you know, he was really open.
7 Then next week I have a conversation and 8 it didn't go so well, I would be upset about that 9 conversation for two or three days. She would be 10 much more so, right?
11 So if she had like a less than stellar 12 conversation wit " she would dwell on that.
13 Over time, if you looked at it over time, it was 14 like cyclical. You know, would get peculiar 15 and kind of cold at times.
16 So to me, like it didn't look any 17 different. You know, like right now he's not 18 listening. Right now he is. Right now he isn't, 19 like that kind of thing.
20 So I wasn't -- when she told me "I got 21 the notice," like I was shocked, but at the same 22 time I could see that that was a position that could 23 be vulnerable. But then I did like "Wow, that was 24 sudden."
25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: How about --
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1 the second part of what I'm looking at is her last 2 day on site being moved up. I know we talked about 3 that a little bit. In your experience, it was not 4 unusual for that to occur?
5 Well, it was unusual and 6 not unusual. It was not unusual in that oftentimes, 7 if there was a layoff or a reduction in force, they 8 oftentimes try to stage, you know, having people 9 leave in a formal way quickly. That's the part 10 that's not usual, I mean -- yes, that's not unusual.
11 What was unusual was 45 days, and then 12 halfway through the 45 days, "Get yourself out of 13 here tomorrow" kind of deal. That's the part that 14 was unusual.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did that 16 bother Kim, the fact that that occurred?
17 " N Very much so. Yes. Well, 18 actually it bothered me too, because it was like 19 "That's stupid." You know, choose, right? It's 20 like you give them 45 days and give them five days 21 to move or two days to move, but then if they're 22 going to stay here for 45 days and look for a job, 23 and get free rein, then give them that. But don't 24 like -- don't go both ways.
25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
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1 Right? I thought that was 2 unusual. It-seemed like to me, my interpretation, a 3 little schizophrenic, you know, in behavior. I'm 4 not psychologist. I'm just using a dramatic phrase.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Do 6 you know why that decision was made?
7 No idea.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Have 9 you heard from -- I mean, we talked about -- the 10 issues I've talked to you about today, about the 11 reasons for her position being eliminated, and the 12 reasons for her last day being moved up, is there 13 someone that you think might have more information 14 on why that occurred, someone who may have made a 15 comment to you? I'm looking for a little help here.
16 lx Yes, I'm with you.
17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Someone who 18 you think might have substantive information on why 19 those two things happened?
20 . I'm thinking that maybe one Vi 21 of the leaders in the )alem Operations, you know, 22 that -- I don't know -- I can only guess.
23 Like I know who she was, let's say, 24 warming up to and having good conversations with, 25 were like
/
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1 that I don't know whether he was here 2 at that -- he's back again. He left the company --
3 (ph).
4 She had a lot of open conversations with 5 *but I don't know what the timing is, 6 right? Who else did she have a lot of great 7 conversations with?
8 I would say all the OS's, but those are 9 the ones I remember her saying that she was able to 10 get really, to have pretty open conversations with.
11 So it's possible one of those three know 12 more about this equipment operator thing and how it 13 was handled than I do.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right, okay.
15 But what about for the reasons why her job was 16 eliminated? That's really what I'm looking at. I 17 mean we've -- frankly, NRC's done -- I mean Eileen 18 and I probably did 70 interviews about the work 19 environment. We've explored a lot of that stuff.
20 Y es, I'm with you. Oh by 21 the way, I remember the name of the , with 22 an His name is 23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes, I saw 24 you write that.
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1 last name, but I'm getting close.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, all 3 right, all right.
4 I'm pretty sure it was 5
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
7 Yes. rlA was an unusual 8 communicator. I would say he probably communicated 9 to Kim and I more than anyone else on the property.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
11 Now when I no longer worked 12 for him, I didn't interchange with him every day any 13 more.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Even after 15 then, he still would --
16 Well, when I saw him we' d 17 have great conversations.
18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
19 Okay. But I only saw hi m 20 like once a month or every six weeks.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well, duri:nlQ ng 22 any of those conversations, after you no longer 23 worked with him --
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1 about Kim Harvin at all?
2 Not at all. But I would 3 say honestly, nd Kim Harvin probably got 4 the brunt of the conversation withQ than 5 anybody on the property. We had lots of -- I mean, 6 more conversations even, minutes and what we got 7 into.
8 So the reason I'm giving you that 9 context is, if you talk to the other executives, he 10 didn't talk to them very much. He was very quiet, 11 and very -- what's the word, obscure.
12 So I honestly -- I'm thinking who he 13 confided in most back then, like when his contract 14 was coming to an end and his tenure was coming to an 15 end.: I'm sure, to some degree. He might 16 have been conversing wit . - '(ph) perhaps.
17 I don't think so, though. I don't think 18 -- see, I don't think he talked to them that much, 19 because they would come to me and say "What the hell 20 did he mean when he said that?" We were in a 21 meeting and they would either use me as a 22 translator.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Even after 24 you were no longer working for.
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1 frequently in meetings.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did any of 3 the senior management confide in you on their view 4 of Kim's work---
5 No.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: What she was 7 doing?
8No 9 SR. SPECIAL-AGENT TEATOR: Whether they 10 viewed it positively, negatively?
11 { *d Positively. I would get 12 positive comments about her performance, yes.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: From the 14 senior leadership?
15 7... Uh-huh.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Like who?
17 Well ........
- . . ... He 18 thought some of the stuff she had was like terrific.
19 He would say so. He'd tell her to her face, in 20 front of other people, including me.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
22 I would say likeiU 23 ii(ph) had some laudatory comments about Kim, 24 what a dofference she made.
25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
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1 I would say on 2 occasion did.. Not as much as l-k "S... T,I 3 I-*p ... ccasionally had some nice things to 4 say.
5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: He's retired 6 though, right? Or is he back up at Corporate?
7 He's an IT type of guy.
8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
9 owl I would say like' 10 (ph), when was here. tthought highly 11 of Kim, and would acknowledge that in public.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
1-3 Well like I remember the 1-4 day thatý told Kim and I that we made one 15 of the best days of his career. She and I like 16 produced part of the happiest day of his life.
17 So he was very appreciative of it openly 18 in public. He was not a -- what's the word -- an 19 emotional kind of guy, right? So we definitely had 20 an impact on him.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you ever 22 -- I mean Kim's working with the Salem NEOs, nuclear 23 equipment operators, the non-licensed guys.
24 In her work in that area, and I know she 25 did a lot of work with those guys, all right? Did NEAL R. GROSS V
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1 you ever hear or any of the senior management i7 2 make any negative comments regarding her work with 3 the NEOs at Salem? Anything at all?
4 Mb: No. I didn't hear anything 5 negative from them about that.
6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Did 7 you know she was working with the Salem operators?
8 . She told me she was 9 working. She'd work on so many things.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
11 So it was like one of the 12 many things she was working on. She was working 13 with these guys and these guys.
14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did she tell 15 you she was getting negative feedback from senior 16 leadership here about her work in that area? Did 17 she share with you if she was getting such feedback?
18'VNear the end, before she 19 told me about being given 45 days' notice, she 20 indicated that people weren't being as open and 21 receptive as they had been in other areas. They 22 were being a little bit less receptive.
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: People like 24 who?
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I speaking.
2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
3' I didn't see the 4 transaction, but that's the impression she got.
5 Also like for example, like a couple of people she 6 didn't really care for that much. She tried her 7 best to get in with them. Like the 8 right?
9 )SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:,
10 (ph).
11 She didn't 12 care for him at all, because he wasn't very open to 13 this. So I'm going to guess that she found him to 14 be a dead end, right? Because why -- like if he was 15 not a dead end, why was, you know, like then it 16 would be -. and then it would be 17 So the question is, she has the issues, 18 and she hung around with operators and outage folks 19 a lot, like working on all kinds of things, right?
20 Like I said, any time anything would come up, there 21 would be an upset like with that group, she would 22 get right in the middle of it and help deal with it.
23 The imp)ression I got was she was going 24 tolis because she wasn't getting good listening 25 from ",Vand she had given up o NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. That's 2 interesting.
3 Yes 4 -SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 11:23.
5 I'm going to take a short break and look over my 6 notes, and then we'll continue. But I believe we're 7 getting near completion.
8 Very good, very good.
9 (Whereupon, a short recess was taken.)
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 11:40 in 11 the morning. We're back on the record after, I 12 guess, somewhat a lengthy break. A couple of 13 questions to finish up here, 14 Did you ever hearor" aany '2 15 other senior Manager here make a statement to the 16 effect of they viewed Kim Harvin as a detriment to 17 how they wanted to deal with the union people?
18 Anything along those lines at all?
19 I didn't hear anything like 20 that, no.
21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: We've talked 22 about a lot here today. Is there something you want 23 to bring to my attention that we haven't spoken 24 about, regarding why her position was eliminated, 25 and why the decision to have her last day moved up NEAL R. GROSS /
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1 was made? Is there anything that we haven't gotten 2 to that you think would helpful in this matter?
3 The only thing I have is 4 really her conversations with me. But like any 5 thoughts I might have had, I didn't hear like any 6 third parties give me any information or I wasn't 7 made privy to any information that would suggest 8 something untowards happening to her, I mean 9 concrete.
10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well what --
11 I mean, in her conversations with you, what was she 12 telling you that she was hearing or seeing from 13 senior management, regarding her position being 14 eliminated and her last day being moved up, or even 15 her relationship turning sour with-16 What was she telling you about that? Anything that 17 we haven't talked about?
18 I think she had inclination 19 that days were numbered. She appeared to 20 know more than I did, but rumor if you will, about 21 tenure coming to a close.
22 She had some information in general 23 about like, you know, like about the executives and 24 how they were perceived up in Newark. It was stuff 25 that she shared with me. I didn't hear from any NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 third party.
2 So I knew that there was things going on 3 that were influencing people's behavior, like more 4 stress and you know, things on people's minds, that 5 she was alluding to.
6 She noticed that -- she's had very, very 7 rich conversations with bthat lasted an hour, 8 hour9.259259e-5 days <br />0.00222 hours <br />1.322751e-5 weeks <br />3.044e-6 months <br /> and a half. She noticed that they were getting 9 shorter and shorter, and that sometimes their 10 routine weekly -- I think at least weekly they used 11 to meet, as a minimum, had started to drop off on 12 occasion.
13 So that's the. kind of information she 14 was sharing with me. You know, he didn't show up, 15 wasn't available, you know, came to my one-on-one.
16 He wasn't available, he was out of town, you know, 17 that kind of thing.
18 That was the kind of stuff she shared.
19 That's the evidence that she presented to me that 20 suggested that, you know, our relationship isn't 21 what it used to be, like that.
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you 23 remember when she began sharing that with you, or 24 when she began feeling her relationship with*%)
25 had changed?
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1 :I would say some time in 2 that winter, early sp'ring time frame.
3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: '03?
4 M1 : And right after that, she 5 asked me if I -- after she left the company, like 6 the day after or week after, something like that, 7 she asked me if -- some time very quickly like 8 before they terminated her APLIC (ph) account, she 9 asked me to go look in her APLIC account and get her 10 some things out of it.
11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
12 And I did.
13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you 14 remember what?
15 Appointments.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, all 17 right.
18 . You know. She asked for 19 like -- she asked me io look for all -- go do a 20 search and find all the appointments she had on her 21 calendar wit *-
22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.
23 Then she asked me to look 24 for some fil'" in her personal directory, and things 25 like that.
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1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did she tell 2 you why she wanted you to give that to her?
3 Well, inside the context of 4 that conversation was he must have let me go because 5 he didn't like what -- where I was bringing the 6 conversation to him on, this whole subject including 7 these operators.
8 Like in her world, clearly within -- you 9 know, like after she left, it was clearly in her 10 mind that she had been let go because she became 11 persona non grata about what she was talking about.
12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
13 So she told me the context 14 was I need to get as many facts as .I can, because I 15 don't have access to my facts any more.
16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay, all 17 right.
18 On all of them.
19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.
20 Anything else that comes to mind?
21 She asked me once, like 22 months later, once was here --
23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR:
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1 e-mail, and if I would give it to** I said I 2 would feel uncomfortable giving it to because I 3 don't know him that well.
4 But I certainly would put it in his 5 mailbox for you. I dropped it off in his mailbox, 6 and I did that for her.
7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: What was in 8 that letter? Do you remember?
9 I actually did read it. I 10 had to look at to make sure it printed out li correctly. It was her recommending to* that i2 be the next ops manager or plant manager 13 at Hope Creek because he had the right stuff. It 14 was just a recommendation.
15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I don't have 16 any further questions today. It's 11:45. If
.17 there's something that you think of, regarding what 18 I'm looking at, you have my card.
19 Please give me a call at my office, and 20 we can either do it on the phone or I'll be back 21 down here. We could do it in person.
22Oky 23 R. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Is there 24 anything you want to add, anything more today?
25 l:)I can't think of anything, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
1 Jeffrey. I have your card, like you said. I could 2 think of something later. I'll probably think of 3 this guy a0 last name later.
4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right, 5 okay.
6 I believe you have it in 7 another interview, the guy's full name. I just 8 can't remember it at the moment.
9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. It's 10 11:46. This interview is concluded. Thank you.
11 (Whereupon, at 11:46 a.m., the interview 12 was concluded.)
13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com