ML062000222

Transcript of Individual

ML062000222
Person / Time
Site:	Salem, Hope Creek
Issue date:	05/06/2004
From:	NRC/OI
To:
References
1-2003-051F, FOIA/PA-2005-0194
Download: ML062000222 (76)

Text

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS INTERVIEW-----------------------------

x IN THE MATTER OF: INTERVIEW OF L Docket No.1-2003-OSIF (CLOSED)-----------------------------

x Thursday, May 6, 2004 Salem Hope Creek Nuclear Generating Station Hancocks Bridge, New Jersey The above-entitled interview was conducted at 1:18 p.m.BEFORE: Senior Special Agent JEFFREY TEATOR, NRC/RI/OI EXH_ OIT ýALSO PRESENT: PAGE- OqJ___7 JEFF KEENAN, Assistant General Solicitor for PSEG Services o M as, delted N Freedom of InformtlOrN NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005.3701 www.nealrgross.com

/IE(S)Act, e: FOIA-1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (1:18 p.m.)3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Now we're going 4 to move into an interview into the potential violation 5 of 10 CFR 50.7. I explained briefly at the beginning 6 of the tape that there's been an allegation brought to 7 the Commission's attention that Dr. Kim Harvan was 8 retaliated against, discriminated against, because she 9 engaged in NRC protected activities.

I'm going to 10 talk to you about that now.11 And, again, you're considered a witness in 12 that investigation.

You understand you're still under 13 oath for this portion of the interview?

14 Yes, I do.15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. And 16 you're represented by counsel. Counsel, your 17 representation is the same, is that correct?18 MR. KEENAN: Yes.19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. You 20 touched on something I want to just pick up on. You 21 became the correct?22 Correct.23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And when did 24 that -- when did your time in that position end?25 Nominally, the fall o NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com'

.o 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 when I transitioned, as I mentioned in the introduction to our previous testimony, over to (inaudible) to set up a projects infrastructure organization, so that we could embark on a large capital program.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Good.*7"Wmw" -.. So I was there approximately two years. /SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.A little over two years and two months.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And prior to going on the record, I showed you, a copy of an e-mail message from -- it says Kim Ritiglianb.

That's Dr. Kim Harvan. And, actually, it's to -- it's addressed to iand the subject is you.SYes.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: But it reads like it was sent to you, if I look at it right.But it wasn't.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It wasn't? It says, " I'm writing to you." No. This is -- this was --I believe I would have remembered the e-mail, but I do remember pieces of the issue she has brought up. I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com C..

1 don't recall getting an e-mail like that.2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.3 ' fl M) And when you just allowed me 4 the privilege of reading it, I see she wrote the 5 letter t saying that if I were to send 6 a letter t t would look something like this.7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.8 -: But you can see on the 9 header that it never came to me directly.10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Well, 11 let me talk about the issues that she described in 12 here, and then I'll ask you some followup questions.

13 And I'll just read the part verbatim here.14 The e-mail is dated February 5, 2001, and 15 the paragraph

-- it's the third paragraph I'm going to 16 read to you. It reads, "Simply put, I am threatened 17 by you. I am scared that now that you are the 18 I am going to lose ground that I have 19 worked so hard for -- ground with the guys in 20 Operations, the guys whose leadership I consider to be 21 the key to our future. I am afraid that you are going 22 to say I shouldn't continue to work with them, that 23 you don't want me involved, and that much of what I 24 have worked for this last year will be tossed aside.25 Mostly because you and I don't have a trusting NEAL R. GROSS " 1)COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 partnership with each other." Did she ever have a discussion with you where she talked about the things described in this paragraph?

SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes, she did.Okay. And may I--SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Please, go ahead.-- if I could. I did not have the occasion to work,with her much prior to her being, in that period of time she references, working wit t previous Q Sp'. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.I do recall the issue when SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.-- and she left. I also recall the issue -- I believe her context of why she's threatened by you is that she was threatened by me thinking that because I was put in place to make change -- and it was clear I was put in to be theW to make a substantive change in the conduct of operations in the plant specifically at Hope Creek, but not limited to Hope Creek.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v

V.1 j:)Those were the directions I 2 got from my boss, (inaudible).

3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.4 And I think I previously 5 mentioned my background.

t iu 6 so I have the wherewithal and knowledge 7 and qualifications to go execute that direction.

8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.9 91: I think what Kim was afraid 10 of -- and I'll put "afraid" in quotes -- is that, you 11 know, I was going to take a whole different approach, 12 because I'm a new person, and that my approach I chose 13 would not involve her. That's how I read this.14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.15 Now, in -- now, just to be 16 complete, she got back from that trip. Her and I had 17 a long conversation.

18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Talked about 19 this.20 I invited her to help me.21 I told her I needed her help. And, in fact, her and 22 I crafted the entire approach, and she was invaluable 23 in crafting this approach, of the operations 24 excellence plan. In fact, she helped me write the 25 presentation, and that -- in the fall we had a joint NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SRO meeting over at Hope Creek, where I laid out the 2 vision for what -- you know, what I was about, the 3 vision of where I felt we needed to take the 4 operations department.

5 This was in front of all the SROs at the 6 time. I'll say all. I mean, was there somebody on 7 midnight shift sleeping?

Undoubtedly.

But, you know, 8 the majority of the SROs that we could get together.9 And her and I prepared for that, and we laid out the 10 strategy.

And she actually helped me implement the 11 strategy that culminated in the development of the 12 operations standards.

13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Which you 14 talked about --15 Yes.16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: ---inthe first 17 part of this interview.

18 .mý We assigned each -- we 19 assigned an OS crew from each station to jointly work 20 together over about an eight-week period to draft the 21 operations

-- the draft of these standards for the 22 first time, and put them together and present them to 23 the ops managers and myself.24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.25 And so there were crews --NEAL R. GROSS F COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 there were crews that were put together, and they did 2 that. And she actually helped work with the OSs and 3 helped, you know, behind the scenes, making sure that 4 they were working on these and, you know, told them I 5 was serious that, you know, I expected them to --6 their lack of leadership at that time I believe 7 contributed to the issues --8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.9 we had identified in 10 the -- by INPO relative to our operators.

And I said 11 that this was the opportunity for them to work out --12 and I provided in that meeting each of them -- we put 13 books together -- and I don't have the books, though, 14 I don't think. I may have it at home, because I'm a 15 pack rat.16 But we put books together that showed all 17 of the QA reports, the INPO report, all of the NRC 18 reports, nuclear reviews that had operator issues, 19 because I had -- I had to get into their heads that, 20 hey, you know, it's not just me saying that, you know, 21 we'd have to improve our performance.

It's, you know, 22 everybody that passes judgment on us.23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.24 ]M Says we have to improve our 25 performance, and the way we're going to do it is NEALR. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 through you.2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Let's 3 talk about Kim's performance on that project. How 4 would you rate her performance?

S Acceptable.

We got the 6 deliverable

-- I mean, this was -- we got the 7 deliverable out. She wasn't directly accountable for 8 it.9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.10 y The operations 11 superintendents, which they paid at the time a very 12 handsome salary, were accountable for defining and 13 anchoring these standards.

14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.15 7 And this -- these standards 16 were the basis for many other things, and she helped 17 -- she helped with those. They were the basis for our 18 self-assessment program, so we did -- we rewrote our 19 ongoing assessments, so that when we went into the 20 control room and did observations

--21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.22 --we linked them back to 23 this, so each crew could see, hey, you know, our crew 24 needs to work on industrial safety work practices.

25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 '.~W You know, we used these in 2 training.

So these became the backbone of what we 3 did, and they did not exist prior to -- prior to the 4 fall of 2000.5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. She --6 in this e-mail, which you didn't get --7 Right.8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: -- but she 9 describes in here that it -- her belief that you and 10 her don't have a trusting partnership with each other.11 M We had -- we had very little 12 interface and -- and her -- her style is valuable and 13 different than what most people would see around 14 nuclear powerplants.

And for that reason, you know, 15 we had her as a -- you know, I'll call her an internal 16 consultant.

17 I mean, she provided the type of services 18 that typically people at my level would go pay a 19 company to bring. We just happened to have that 20 resource at that time I think working out of Newark, 21 and she was asked to come down and help, because she 22 had this.23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So I'm asking 24 you to comment on -- on -- if you can on why she 25 thought that.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 ....Well, because my first -- my 2 first impressions of her and -- which really has more 3 to do with me than her.4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.5 She's different than you 6 would see around here, so she starts talking about my 7 job is to bring love into the workplace.

That's not 8 a conversation you're going to hear a lot around 9 commercial nuclear powerplants.

10 And, you know, she was talking about 11 bringing relationships and -- but over time I really 12 saw the value in that, and had a good relationship 13 with her in those periods of time where she was 14 directly helping on specific projects.15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: When you were 16 the 17 Right. That was, you 18 know -- it was early on -- during the -- just for 19 completeness, this was like a deliverable.

This had 20 a beginning and an end.21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: This was --22 ME The operations standards 23 document, the project, or whatever, because this was 24 the framework for the rest of what, you know, the 25 approach was that I chose as the0to try t 0 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 raise operational performance to excellence.

SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.After this gets done, there was still a lot of work to be done in some of the relationships between like the operations superintendents and their crews, you know, the people that work for them on shift.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.And Kim worked in that area, and I didn't get a lot of feedback, mainly because I didn't want a lot of feedback, because, you know, she had developed a trust with the OSs. And if they were working on individual leadership issues, she acted as a leadership coach. It really wasn't appropriate for her to be sharing that with the because --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Was she?9) She did not share, you know, her -- the unique coaching issues that she was working on on specific individuals, because that would have preempted her trust --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.--and being able to work through those issues )ith those individuals.

You know, I didn't expect her to, nor did I want her to.But I did want to have improved crew OS relations, so NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com (j 1 it was really worthwhile in that period of time to 2 have her working on those issues.3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you see an 4 improvement in that area?5 There was an improvement 6 over the -- over the 2001 timeframe in that area.7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.8 I (inaudible) say that 9 Kim's performance assisted in that.10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. I. want 11 to move to -- is there something more you want to say?12 If not, I was going to move to a slightly different 13 area.14 -k Well, let me just -- since 15 we're (inaudible) this now. It was, you know, much 16 like anybody else or any other type of coaches that 17 I've seen working in the industry.

You know, some 18 people had improvements and got all of that out of 19 their relationship and working with her, and some 20 people didn't.21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.22 So some people (inaudible).

23 The people that she wasn't effective with were no 24 worse than it was when she started. And the people 25 she did have an impact with, you know, their crews NEAL R. GROSS /COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 were operating rather presumably because of the 2 improved relationships between the leader and the crew 3 members.4 So, to me, since she was a -- you know, an 5 employee of the company, on loan to us, we would 6 certainly use her. That was a good use of her. Even 7 if it wasn't 100 percent effective, it was better than 8 -- far better than doing nothing.9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Thank 10 you. I want to talk about what's been called'the 11 Navigant (phonetic) study, McKnight (phonetic).

Is it 12 the same thing?.-13 Yes, there's -- yes.14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Thanks.15 You don't need to know the 16 difference.

17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: No. It's --18 A person formed a company, 19 named it something else, and sold it to somebody else.20 The technology has been around the industry since I've 21 been in management.

22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.23 And they are all sort of 24 synonymous with one another. They would not want to 25 hear you say that, because now they've split again and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 they are two separate companies.

But for purpose of 2 this conversation, we could call all of those the 3 same.4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.5 We're going to be talking about that study for -- for 6 a little bit here. But to begin in this area, I 7 wanted to -- to see if -- did you have any staff 8 positions or staff employees working directly for you 9 in the 2000 time period while you were the 10 Define "staff person." 11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: A staff person, 12 a person working directly --13 .) (Inaudible.)

14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Other 15 than that?16 I had a tech assistant.

17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.18 w was a 19 previous 20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.21 And a former SRO and a --22 somebody that helped me, a fellow with -- towards the 23 end of his career.24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Anyone 25 else who was --NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 then subsequently there 2 was another' who was 3 another senior engineer, former ISEG engineer, who 4 then we subsequently gave a whole department called 5 Ops Support. But in that timeframe for a while he was 6 MY M MA K" 7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Any 8 others you can think of?9 >1 Directly, no.10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. If you 11 do, please bring it out.12 (Inaudible.)

I didn't have 13 (n q)an Iorking with me simultaneously.

14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.15 I pretty much had a tech 16 assistant continuously with a gap.17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.18 That was --19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.20 Good enough. What was your understanding of the 21 general purpose of the Navigant study being conducted 22 down here at the plants?23 4r Over time, you know, the 24 expectations would become more efficient or more cost 25 competitive, much like the entire nuclear fleet --/ \NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neafrgross.com 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.2 --- has become. The Navigant 3 Company has access, because many of the utilities, if 4 not all of them, contribute their staffing data to 5 them, and then it allows them to look at some of the 6 particularly best practices that are going on, and 7 then give you -- give an organization like ours a 8 perspective of where we're at relative to our staffing 9 and how we've allocated our organization and the 10 number of folks that are I&C techs or reactor 11 engineers or operators, compared to what's out there 12 in the industry.13 So for people at my level, you know, we're 14 -- we're tasked as an officer of keeping abreast of 15 industry trends and industry benchmarking, and it 16 becomes a pretty valuable tool to look at where we 17 were at relative to the rest of the industry on 18 staffing.19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And where were 20 -- what did Navigant find, particularly in that area, 21 as far as staffing?

N 22 .In general, we were -- we 23 had more staff than -- than would be typical in the 24 industry, even if you assumed that there was no 7 25 efficiency to be gained by having Salem and Hope Creek NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 on the same site. I believe there were (inaudible)

--2 I have not (inaudible) that study.3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.4 --. But -- however, I think, as 5 I recall in the conversation, their approach was to 6 take a benchmark two-unit Westinghouse plant staffing, 7 and then just add a benchmark single BWR, and add 8 those two together.

When you did that, our staffing 9 is higher than that.10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.ii .. Well, you know, conceptually 12 you were -- you would think that that would be like 13 the --a very high end estimate of where we should be, 14 because that assumes that there's absolutely no 15 efficiency to be gained by having Salem and Hope Creek 16 on the same site.17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.18 Which, you know, obviously 19 is not true. We have one security force. I mean, you 20 don't even have to think very hard to think of some 21 advantages that, you know, would make that number a 22 high end number. But the assumption was it was just 23 a representative benchmark two-unit PWR --24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.25 -- plus the benchmark single NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 BWR added together.

And when you compared that to our 2 staff, we were higher.3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you recall 4 when that study was completed?

5 w No. I mean, it was in the 6 2000 -- and generally it was sometime in 2002, early 7 2003 timeframe, because I know we used it as the basis 8 for -- for doing some combinations of different 9 groups, which ended up a reduction in staff, 10 transferring some stuff to corporate, either with or 11 without the people based on what the Navigant study 12 told us.13 And then, again, we used it in -- so that 14 was like one effort, and going on I think in the fall 15 of '02, early spring '03, and then some of the same 16 data we utilized again for a completely separate event 17 that we did when we reorganized in the fall of 2003 18 and made everybody reapply for the jobs.19 It got back -- because the Navigant study 20 recommended we won't go back to plant managers.

So 21 part of -- part of the reorganization that (inaudible) 22 commissioned in the fall of '03, we used some of the 23 benchmark Navigant numbers.24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.25 -You'll also hear that as the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neafrgross.com

.o v 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Tim Martin numbers.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.7 You'll also hear it was (inaudible).

For this conversation, they're all the same.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Thank you.That's good. Did you participate in discussions surrounding that study in the summer and fall of 2002?Yes.SR- SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Do you know if your organization at that time would have been Operations?

It would not have been.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It would not have been. I thought it was.100001., In the fall of -- in the fall of '02 is when I transitioned to be the)%SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: When in the fall? Fall was --October. October. So during the summer -- October/November.

SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.I think actually t iand I formally turned over the conclusion of that fall NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www.nealrgross.com 1 outage, but, I mean, we were -- we worked together 2 on--3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Well, 4 while you were the, was there a review of 5 your organization in an effort to look for potential 6 position eliminations as part of this Navigant study?7 M .\Yes. And at that time, we 8 chose -- there were no particular stuff reductions 9 within Operations, because we had just overstaffed 10 Operations by a pre-agreed-upon strategy.11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.12 ) So we knew we had more SROs 13 than the Navigant study by design, because one of the 14 other issues that occurred that I had to solve in the 15 fall of 2000 when I took over was the shortage of SROs 16 in the pipeline.17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.18 ,So we went out and very 19 aggressively hired SROs from the industry, had to give 20 them license classes, and overpopulated Operations.

21 And that was the strategy that I presented to our 22 Board of Directors, our Nuclear Subcommittee, the 23 board in Newark, which they approved to allow us to 24 overstaff Ops, so we could start to, after we got 25 through the license process, transfer operators out of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 Operations and have operational expertise in other --2 other areas.3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.4 ) One of our self-assessments 5 in the fall of 2000 that I had (inaudible) that this 6 site was not up to the industry standards, because 7 (inaudible) had a shortage of SROs, so there wasn't a 8 lot of SROs to be able to assign in the other 9 departments.

During 2000 to 2002 (inaudible) we've 10 solved that problem.11 And back to your question, we went over 12 the Navigant study in Operations

--13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.14 -- and accepted that as part 15 of our strategy.16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.17 So we didn't go, you know, 18 try to reduce those (inaudible).

We just worked hard 19 to get here and get through the license class and get 20 NRC licenses.

That would not have --21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.22 --that would have been 23 foolish.24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did either of 25 your two tech assistant positions come up for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neafrgross.com

.o v 1 discussion as possibly being eliminated while you were 2 the 3 " In the end, I did not have 4 a tech assistant.

I donit recall, you know, the cause 5 and effect and timeline.

We did a realignment in 6 Operations in the spring of 2002, and my tech 7 assistant became the manager -- department manager 8 over a newly-created group, where we combined the 9 procedure writers and the corrective action and self-10 assessment and some of like the Operations staff --11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.12 .-- under a department.

13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.14 And I made him -- and "him" 15 is( -- the manager of that. And when I made 16 him that, I did not have a tech assistant at that 17 time.18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.19 1 I don't recall --20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.21 --whether the line of\ /I 22 questioning you-'had -- whether that came out of the 23 Navigant study or not.24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.25 It all occurred in the same NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 mm.nealrgross.com

• o 1 timeframe.

But the end result is I had no tech 2 assistant.

3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. You 4 know, in government they talk about FTEs. I don't 5 know if you use that same term here. Were there any 6 -- was there a loss of FTEs in your direct reporting 7 chain like --8 When you say "loss," I mean, 9 part of our strategy also going on at the time was to 10 have an attrition strategy where when somebody quit or 11 retired, we'd do a pretty thorough review whether we 12 would rehire that position or not.13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.14 And, you know, those are 15 full-time equivalent positions

.--16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.17 --to use your language, and 18 during that period of time we did reduce some of the 19 numbers of -- as I recall, some of the numbers of open 20 FTEs within Operations.

There weren't people 21 associated with them, because we were out there trying 22 to replenish the operations pipeline.23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.24 I believe I recall in that 25 period of time we had not filled all those positions, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 and we gave some of..those positions back.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.MBut there weren't people in those positions.

It just sort of --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: No, I understand the difference.

All right. Now, you leave* .\you become --n charge of projects.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Projects.Okay. When you went to that group, was there a review done of the people in your chain of command then to look for potential position eliminations?

Well, that's sort of nonsensical, respectfully.

SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Why?Because I got assigned to form an organization that --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: There wasn't one then.--to go -- so we went and benchmarked Duke Engineering, looked at how they were embarking on about a $600 million tactical program at the Oconee station, brought -- I personally went there and visited with a few folks, and then we came back and implemented, in the fall of 2002, an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com I/

1 organizational structure very similar actually to what 2 we going on at Duke.3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.4 And in that I hired a few 5 folks from the outside, because some of the people 6 that were available didn't have the required skill 7 sets. We're talking about project managers of large 8 construction projects and those kinds of skill sets as 9 opposed to, you know, I&C type of systems or something 10 like that.11 So I actually got assigned and reprimanded 12 and got approval to build about a 40-person direct 13 PSEG -- in other words, full-time equivalent staff, 14 including myself -- augmented by a very large 15 contracts staff, because the nature of much of these 16 projects was not, you know, for other work. It was, 17 you know --18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.19 ) -- hire them, do the 20 project, and let the folks go.21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Let me 22 ask you this, then. Talking about looking for 23 efficiencies, position eliminations, were you aware in 24 the fall -- the summer/fall 2002 time period that 25 other organizations here were being looked at or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 reviewed in an effort to eliminate positions?

2 Y 3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you know --4 can you give me a couple of examples of which 5 organizations?

6 .: As I recall, the IP 7 organization`-

8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.9 :-- the business support 10 organization, and -- those are the two I guess that 11 come immediately to mind.12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. Do 13 you --14 And that included the 15 completeness

-- back to your other question.

That 16 also included the, you know, transfer of some 17 organizations, either with or without the people that 18 were doing the work, to corporate organizations.

19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.20 Such as nuclear 21 communicationsis an example --22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.23 --that comes to mind.24 SSR7 SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So those people 25 no longer worked here.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 'a Correct.2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: They were --3 They were paid out of 4 Newark.5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.6 Many of them still work --7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Physically 8 here. Okay. All right.9 -But they -- some of them 10 absorbed into other larger organizations in Newark.11 And as part of that absorption, and the fact that we 12 could get the services in a different way than having 13 them work here at PSEG Nuclear, I believe some of 14 those moves actually resulted in full-time equivalent 15 reductions.

16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Do you 17 recall there being any discussion of -- and, again, 18 2002 -- okay? Try and keep it to that, if you can, 19 all right? About the elimination of Kim Harvan's 20 position.21 In 2002.22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.23 I do not recall that we 24 discussed that in 2002.25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neafrgross.com v

1 Let's move on a little bit, then, okay? Let's look at 2 January 2003, a month later.3 All right.4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you recall 5 being present for a meeting at 6 residence on a Saturday morning where the job 7 performance of the direct reports was discussed during 8 that meeting?9 10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. Do 11 you remember who else was there?12 I believe the other officers 13 were there, and as there.14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: The other 15 officers being?16 At that time that would have 17 been i 18 19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.20 .,Who was one of -- was a 21 irect report, which is why he would have been 22 in the--23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.24 -- in that meeting.25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: What was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 generally the purpose of that meeting? I'd like you 2 to just tell me what that was.3 -- well, I'll answer 4 the short answer, and then (inaudible)

-- was to 5 review the -- our performance evaluation ratings of 6 our direct reports with the team to get additional 7 insight and -- and, you know, sharing of -- and 8 understanding of each of our leaders' performance.

9 And the January timeframe is when we were 10 in the process of finalizing annual performance 11 reviews, so this would have been -- this was to 12 provide us additional input for the person accountable 13 for those leaders to put in their performance reviews.14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you recall 15 Kim Harvan's job performance being discussed at the 16 meeting?17 I recall her performance 18 being discussed.

19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Can you tell me 20 what you recall of that?21 Generally, the consensus 22 that I recall that came out was that she had, you 23 know, added value and made a difference in some areas.24 But our assessment of the 2002 WANO (phonetic) report, 25 and some of the cultural issues that were in that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 report, as well as our, you know, assessment of where 2 we actually were at in the operations leadership with 3 the station, you know, was not where we wanted it to 4 be.5 And I recall my contribution (inaudible) 6 I think that we probably got as much value out of Kim 7 as we're going to get. She has taken us as far as 8 we're going to go, got us -- got us, you know, some 9 improvement, but we're, you know, not -- not still 10 improving, and the WANO -- the WANO report showed, you 11 know, we still had some significant issues and --12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.13 And that was the feedback 14 that I gave her. And I think that was, as I recall, 15 that -- that was some general -- the general 16 consensus.

17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did you 18 recommend to her that her employment not be continued 19 at that meeting? It's almost like you went halfway 20 there, saying she -- you probably got what was --21 M This is where it's hard to 22 remember.23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.24 .We meet with -- we meet with 25 very Friday. I meet with Jon one-on-ones, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 and -- and what was recalled when -- you know, I 2 recall being in a conversation, either at that meeting 3 or -- or after that meeting -- I don't believe it was 4 before that meeting -- where it was asked, you know, 5 did I believe that -- that she should be retained.6 And I don't believe it was at that 7 meeting, and I think my recommendation to her at that 8 time was -- I recall what it was is very consistent 9 with what I said at the (inaudible) meeting. That is, 10 you know, I think we need to take a different 11 approach, and that she -- (inaudible) she has the 12 opportunity to go back to Newark or, you know, that 13 her services here (inaudible) we probably would want 14 to take a different approach.15 I never received from any feedback 16 what he was going to do with that -- with that 17 information.

He never communicated to me that he was 18 going to not have her services.19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Ever.20 That I recall, no. The 21 reason I'm quite clear on that is I was very surprised 22 in a Friday staff meeting that , Ihad -- I mean, 23 I'll say sometime in March, sometime in and around the 24 time, obviously, Kim knew she wasn't going to be 25 working here -- and this will become clear in a minute NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25-- because at the end of one of Friday staff meetings ame in and, you know, asked to talk to everybody and read -- read or paraphrased something she had in her hand, and gave this really emotional, heartfelt good-bye, in which case that's when I had the realization that she wasn't going to be here anymore.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: We're going to revisit that. I want to break that down when we get to --Okay.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: -- that.To the best of my recollection, I recall being surprised.

I also recall afterwards telling her, you know, that -- you know, I wished her the best of luck and --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.* )The best I recall, I believe that's where I learned that she actually wasn't going to -- you know, thae ad decided not to -- not to retain her services.

I did know -- you know, I mean, I did understand that. was evaluating this.I never was in the meeting and --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: (Inaudible.)

Well, you know, he asked for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neatrgross.com

~1'~-I (

1 the feedback that I gave. I told you just a second 2 ago that --3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.4 you know, what was I, you 5 know -- what did I think, and I said, "Well, I think" 6 -- you know, I told him I thought that, you know, 7 we've taken it as far as we're going to get with her 8 performance, and that -- that she had an opportunity 9 to go back to Newark, that, you know, I mean, we might 10 want to take a different approach.11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.12 ')And that wasn't a long --as 13 I recall, that followup conversation with,**- that 14 wasn't a -- you know, a long, drawn-out conversation.

15 It literally probably was no longer than what I just 16 relayed, and it was probably, you know --kjtiý has a 17 communication style where in five minutes you can 18 cover 50 things. So literally, you know, that 19 conversation about i would have occurred, you know, 20 "Okay. Now talk to me about reactor heads. Now talk 21 to me about steam generators." 22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. Let 23 me go back and ask you a couple of specific 24 questions

-..25 f ky NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: -- about the January meeting a 0. .house. What I've been told is that you provided the most negative feedback regarding Kim Harvan at that meeting.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And that was based on your telling the group something about Kim passing on --Right.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: -- some type of confidential information.

SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Go ahead and telling me about that, please.Imam Okay. In the fall -- and I don't recall when in the fall -- Kim had access to a fair amount -- or a lot of access to some very confidential conversations about people.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.) And we gave her full access to those conversations and welcomed her input, actually, in those conversations.

And as a result of one of those conversations, it had to do with -- and I don't recall the specifics, but it had to do with some staffing move that we were going to do witIW1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 An was involved in this conversation where we like laying out the strategy to do something in the future. It was really confidential.

You can imagine at this level that --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.S_ you don't share that kind of stuff. One, I'm not even sure we finalized it. It was just, you know, a conversation about possibilities and potentials.

Well, later that week Kim was at an operations superintendent meeting at Hope Creek and shared the essence of that conversation with the operations superintendent.

And it turned ou*was in attendance in that meeting as well.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did that get back to you, what happened then?SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.)Becaus whoIave a good relationship with, called me up and said, you know, things are going to be considered about the (inaudible) preferred to learn them from you than from Kim.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

-I 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.9 And, you know, I couldn't disagree with him.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.2 01So .So (inaudible).

SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.So that concerned me. So I called Kim in'*-,-- shared With her, and asked her, you know, had she shared that information, and she admitted that she had. And I, you know, told her that that was really a breach of confidentiality, and that could really create some trust issues between the management team and the workforce, and that she agreed that that was inappropriate.

And she did agree that that was inappropriate and actually apologized to me.I told about that, and I don't recall if I wrote him a note about it, or I told him about it. I know I told him about it. I don't recall if I wrote him a note or an e-mail, but -- but in our conversations about Kim on that Sunday I brought up the fact while we were discussing the performance that, you know, she had had this breach of confidentiality that I coached her on.Or we didn't -- I mean, I didn't -- I didn't say anything other than we're talking about, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neairgross.com I-1 you know, strengths and weaknesses and things about 2 all of the different people we were talking about.3 And when we talked about Kim, since I had knowledge of 4 that, I brought that up.5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Okay.6 Did you recall that prior to me asking you about that?7 And I'm wondering what -- why you didn't tell me about 8 that when we began our talk about the January meeting.9 Well, I don't know, I was 10 just trying to get into the flow of your questioning.

11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.12 I mean, I didn't see that as 13 -- I didn't see that as an omission or commission when 14 you were talking about different events. I mean, I 15 have other -- a few other -- you know, I will talk 16 about other things for completeness and --17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.18 --- if you don't bring them 19 up to me, I'll share with you.20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.21 I mean, I didn't -- wasn't 22 (inaudible) suggesting that that was from any kind of 23 act of omission.

I can certainly say it's not.24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: No. It sounds 25 like an event in your mind now. I'm just wondering NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 why that didn't come out right off the bat when we 2 were --3 \ You askedyme the nature of 4 the -- you asked me natur/e of, you know, what kind of 5 feedback or -- or conclusions we drew.6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.7 And that was the conclusion 8 we drew.9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.10 A1 I mean, along the way, we 11 concluded

-- made conclusions about all of our 12 managers based on different events.13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.14 W R I mean, I -- I don't recall 15 that we -- I mean, I think -- I mean, all of the 16 things that were talked about Kim that I recall, I 17 think it was pretty balanced.

I believe we talked 18 about, you know, how she had some positive impact on 19 some of the OSs at Hope Creek.20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.21 And how she had no impact on 22 some of the OSs at Hope Creek. It was mixed.23 SR. SPECIAL\,AGENT TEATOR: Right.24 -You know, I mean, we talked \25 about -- I believe we talked about -- someone brought NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 up she -- she had been assigned to work with the 2 nuclear equipment operators at Salem, and I think we 3 discussed that -- you know, that we really hadn't seen 4 much progress in the nuclear equipment operators at 5 Salem.6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Could that have 7 been ho brought that up?8 I don't recall who talked 9 about that.10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I was going to 11 bring up that issue.12 (Inaudible) accuse me of not 13 being --14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: No, no. I'm 15 just --16 -- not being forthright, so 17 I'm--18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: If it came 19 across as being accusatory, I mean, that's -- but I 20 was just wondering

-- I was wondering why (inaudible), 21 because it sounds like something pretty inappropriate.

22 I'm using my words.23 1 .\ Yes. I mean, it -- I 24 reacted, I thought, appropriately, because she had 25 been involved in hundreds of sensitive conversations.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com w

1 And to the best of my knowledge, she did not breach 2 that confidentiality before. So I treated that as a 3 -- you know, I mean, I had no knowledge to believe 4 that she was doing that repetitively.

5 And when I talked with her about the 6 event, when I called her in to talk about it, she 7 admitted it was a mistake and that she saw that it was 8 -- I mean, in the end that was -- that was the issue.9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Okay.10 : I didn't -- it didn't linger 11 forever, but it -- it was big enough that I called her 12 on it, because we couldn't have access to those kinds 13 of conversations and share them outside our room and 14 have any chance at all of managing effectively.

15 .SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Just talking, 16 again, about the meeting a house -- at 17 any point during the meeting di i)confirm in 18 any way that you felt there were certain individuals 19 who were in the bottom grouping of job performance, 20 one being Kim Harvan? Do you recall him saying 21 anything that -- that led the group to believe that 22 she was among a handful of people who were in the 23 bottom grouping as far as job performance went?24 ,I don't recall that level of 25 specificity.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neafrgross.com 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.2 It's 1:59. We're going to take a very short break.3 (Whereupon, the proceedings in the 4 foregoing matter went off the record at 5 1:59 p.m. and went back on the record at 6 2:14 p.m.)7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. We're 8 back on the record it's about 2:14 in the afternoon.

9 We had ,we had a discussion 10 off the record about maybe another reason why this 11 January meeting was held a house to talk 12 about performance of individuals

-- can you go ahead 13 and--14 Yes. During the fall of 15 '02, we had done a reorganization that I previously 16 described involving many of the direct reports to the 17 officers as we combined operations and maintenance 18 under And I was assigned to form a new 19 department and group called Nuclear Projects and 20 Licensing.

21 Because of that, and our annual 22 performance review timeframe, the people that were 23 doing performance appraisals in some cases had only 24 been -- had the folks working for them for the fourth 25 quarter of '02. And I believe that one of the reasons NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 -- I would speculate one of the reasons why we had the 2 meeting at house was so that each person could 3 go over their view of the people that were in the 4 organization and solicit input from everybody, since 5 some of the -- some of the people worked for the other 6 officers for the majority of the year.7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Like 8 Kim Harvan would have worked for you in Operations.

9 Or, actually, she was working for.-- I'm 10 sorry.11 NR Correct.12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: But she was 13 doing work in Operations for --14 Correct.15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: -- part of her 16 time in '02.17 Correct.18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: So do you 19 recall if you provided any type of written input to 20or for Kim's 2002 21 performance appraisal?

22 -) I do not recall providing a 23 written communication relative to Kim. At best, if I 24 would have, it would have been a brief e-mail, but I 25 don't believe I did that.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.2 While we were taking a break, I pulled a document out 3 of one of these binders here, and the signature 4 appears to be. You identified that.5 I couldn't make it out. Anyway, the title of this 6 two-page document is -- at the top it says,, 9 7 Kim Harvan 2002 Appraisal Input." 8 Under areas for improvement, I want to ask 9 you to comment, if you can -- recognize this is 10 toi) But *writes 11 under areas of improvement, "She" -- Kim -- "has a bad 12 impression with management team today. They see no 13 value, and she doesn't hear that." Can you comment on 14 your view of that, whether you agree with that or 15 disagree or have no comment on it?16 I don't have the context to 17 which Kim wrote that.18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.19 You know, I suspect in your 20 interview Kim'could provide you that context. I think 21 there were several managers who had communicated to 22 myself that they didn't feel that she was adding 23 value, just in conversations, and some folks didn't 24 really trust -- trust her.25 One example that I can -- that I can NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 relate is the -- a newly-hired person of that kind at 2 (inaudible) at that time Manager of Equipment 3 Reliability, I recall getting that feedback from him.4 And so, I mean, I don't to the extent others -- that's 5 what I can remember -- would have given that feedback 6 to Kim --7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.8 I would just be 9 speculating.

10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. You 11 mentioned several people made comments here.12 I can remember--I can 13 remember being in conversations with people. I don't 14 recall specifically anybody other than (inaudible).

1 15 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. 6y" 16 talks in this paragraph here about friction 17 exists between Kim and GAP International.

Can you 18 comment on whether you saw anything like that or not?19 4-0.... I.M I did not see friction 20 between Kim and GAP.21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.22 Earlier than 2002, in the 23 2000, early 2001 timeframe, Kim and I were involved 24 working with GAP and planning out our GAP 25 intervention.

And I saw no evidence -- I saw no NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neafrgross.com 1 evidence of any friction.2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.3 I mean, other than, you 4 know, normal friction.5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: If it was 6 abnormal, it would be something.

7 Correct. I saw no 8 abnormal --9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.10 ---friction.I 11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. A 12 number of people were interviewed by Winston & Strawn 13 during the conduct of their investigation into the 14 letter Dr. Harvan sent to And there's 15 also -- some of that testimony goes to her -- why her 16 job was eliminated.

Okay?17 In interview by them, he 18 makes the statement that -- and you commented on this 19 a little bit, but I wanted to see if -- I want to 20 probe it more and see if there's more I can get out of 21 you. On page 63 of that transcript, he testifies, 22 -- I think it's 23 you, F and if you know 24 separately and coll ectively communicated to me that it 25 was time for Kim to leave, that she was becoming more NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

..

1 of a hindrance than a help in the transformation." 2 That comment there, that she was becoming 3 more of a hindrance than a help in the transformation, 4 can you comment on that any more than you already 5 have?6 Not really, no. I mean, 7 that's consistent with -- I believe I -- thatA 8 had asked me for some further input after the January 9 meeting, and I said that I thought it was, you know, 10 time for us to take a different approach.11 I always viewed her, as I view any other 12 consultant, you know, the -- you get what you can out 13 of them, and then, you know, they don't -- they're not 14 in -- they're not designed nor do you use consultants 15 in that manner to where they -- you know, they stay 16 for extended periods of time.17 You know, they usually accomplish

-- you 18 know, you get results or you don't, and then in time 19 you move on to a different approach, which is exactly 20 what we did.21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. But she 22 wasn't a contractor consultant.

She was an employee, 23 although she was -- you testified she was providing 24 that type of service.25 )Right. She originally came NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 from our OD Department, and she really -- her first 2 assignment down here was an assignment from our OD 3 Department up north to help us in the cultural area.4 Subsequently, later I believe she became a PSEG 5 Nuclear employee, but, you know, I always viewed her 6 as an internal consultant.

7 SR. SPECIAL. AGENT TEATOR: Right.8 I mean, just back to our 9 previous conversation, you will find no position like 10 hers ever referenced in the McKnight study.11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.12 That anybody in America 13 would have as a member of their staff.14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.15 Because her type of service 16 typically is provided by consultants.

In fact, today 17 we have another group of consultants

-- (inaudible)

--18 that are helping us with management teamwork and 19 alignment.

So just a different approach.20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: You've 21 testified that you first became aware that Kim Harvan 22 was leaving the employment of the company at this 23 meeting, this Friday meeting, where she came in and 24 announced that fact.25 ) That's correct.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. I 2 want to come back from that just a little bit.3 V Let me reflect on what you 4 just said. I guess I'll -- I'll put a different 5 approach on that. I may or may not have know that, 6 you know, there may be a time in the future where she 7 wasn't going to be working for us.8 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.9 I wasn't -- I was not aware 10 that we made the decision that it was, you know, now 11 or that day that she came in and gave the good-bye 12 speech.13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.14 )So I don't recall whether I 15 knew whether she was -- you know, whetheri was 16 going to act or said, you know, that we were going to 17 move into something else or not, but I do recall that 18 I did have an understanding

-- and I'm feeling this 19 was pretty sudden -- that I had not been apprised 20 that, you know, it was going to be that Friday or --21 you know, I'm not sure exactly when she left the 22 payroll, but it was clear when she came into that 23 Friday meeting she was saying her good-bye.24 I recognized during that whole eight 25 months prior to that I was not working in any area NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 where I was working with her or -- on issues she was 2 working with, because, again, I was out negotiating 3 contracts for steam generators and reactor heads and 4 that kind of stuff.5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. At 6 any point did you as WW or, yes, did you ask 7 he reasons why he decided to eliminate 8 Kim's position?9 Not that I recall. It 10 didn't surprise me that' was she leaving, and 11 because, again, you know, I had giveni1 the 12 feedback.

And I just assumed he got enough of that 13 other feedback to act on it. And, again, to be clear 14 for the record, in that period of time from October 15 to, you know, I guess -- I'm going on your 16 recollection, your statement, the meeting was like 17 March something

--18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.19 --that whole period of time 20 I had very little interactions with Kim.21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.22 Because I was off 23 (inaudible) specialized assignment.

24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. We'll 25 take a very short break off the record. I do have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 mw.nealrgross.com 1 something for you to look at. It's only a couple 2 lines long.3 D) kay.4 SR. SPECIAL'AGENT TEATOR: And it's 2:24.5 (Whereupon, the proceedings in the 6 foregoing matter went off the record at 7 2:24 p.m. and went back on the record at 8 2:26 p.m.)9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: We're back on 10 the record. It's 2:26.11 -, what I gave you to look at is 12 -- it's a document.

It's dated May 15, 2003, titled 13 "In the Matter of PSEG Interviews, Confidential

-14 Followup Questions." Do you recall getting followup 15 questions regarding your interview regarding the Kim 16 Harvan issues?17 Yes, I do.18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That's my 19 words. And bullet number two underneath that, there's 20 a statement that they attribute to you. "Per 21 telephone discussion with stand there's a 22 statement written here, the last sentence, "I was very 23 neutral in the decision to let her go." 24 Can you explain a little bit more on 25 why --NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you recall telling them that --Yes. I mean, I don't recall the exact words.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Do you have any reason to believe that that's not accurate?I have no reason to believe that's not accurate.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Can you go ahead and explain what that means?Sure. I wasn't the decisionmaker.

SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.I just provided input to the decision in the context of the question, and I was a neutral party in the decision to let her go.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Neutral going to "party"s and not --Yes.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: -- how you felt about it?Yes. I was -- just answered a question that -- whenyM asked that followup question, you know, I said that, you know, it's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 probably time for her to move on, that we had gone as 2 far as we could with her services.3 And she got us some positives, but, you 4 know, we needed to take a different approach.5 Accountability wasn't where we wanted. You know, the 6 leadership effectiveness wasn't where we wanted, and 7 we had been working, you know, through her on that 8 for, you know, a good couple of years.9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I just -- I 10 read that, and it -- I just wonder if there's a 11 conflict at all between that statement and what you've 12 already told me about the conversations you had with 13 and your own feelings about her effectiveness.

14 Yes. But I'm saying I was 15 very neutral on the decision.

Obviously, I wasn't the 16 decisionmaker.

17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.18 )I didn't telll to let 19 Kim go. He asked my opinion, and I gave it to him, 20 but not -- you know, essentially, the words I shared 21 in the investigation.

You know, "If you're asking my 22 opinion, I think we've run our course with Kim, and we 23 probably need to take a different approach," because 24 he was asking for my input. And I really wasn't the 25 decisionmaker.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Okay.2 And, again, even the words 3 I just chose -a-ve --I mean, have a neutral sound to 4 them. You know, he could do what he -- you know, do 5 what he wanted to do. But if he was asking me, I 6 thought we had ran our course with her.7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Let's 8 talk about -- well, let's go break this meeting down 9 where you said Kim came in and read something.

Can we 10 go into that again? Tell me what you -- it was a 11 Friday meeting.12 'Yes 13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I just want to 14 get -- I'm trying to get chronological here again.15 I mean, we're -- even though 16 we're talking all over the map?17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes. But I --18 when I read the transcript, it'll make sense and --19 w32U& .: Okay. So -20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: -- it will be 21 helpful.22 .) Okay. We're back to the 23 Friday meeting.24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.25 ',Because I -- as I recall the"" NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 meeting, we had our regularlstaffmeetingand; 2 at the end whether invited or opportunistic

-- I don't 3 know, our sense of timing was pretty good, because as 4 I recall it was like right when the meeting was ended.5 She pops in, clearly appeared to me to be emotional

--6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.7 -- three minutes later I 8 would conclude factually she was emotional.

9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Was she crying?10 She had tears in her eyes.11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.12 And really delivered a 13 heartfelt thank-you for -- and really, you know, 14 appreciative of what -- I mean, I don't recall the 15 exact -- appreciated working here, had some value, 16 (inaudible) has felt that about her experience.

She 17 was -- you know, that kind of stuff.18 And I did have an opportunity in my review 19 of information for this meeting to -- you know, 20 there's a written document that I had an opportunity 21 to scan, which I believe is the gist of what she was 22 -- what she was reading from.23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Has that been 24 provided before?25 .. Yes, it has been provided.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.In fact, if you want --Jeff, this -- we can --MR. KEENAN: Book I?O Yes.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That red book (inaudible).

1~If we want record, I'll give you a chance to --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: to go off the I did look at this.~Okay.-.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. I have seen it.I had never seen this before this morning in just preparations for my discussions with you. And I don't recall if Kim -- and I'm looking at a document dated March 28, 2003, prepared by Kim. In my preparation for this meeting with you-- I think this was the Friday. Is this the date, the 28th? I mean --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That would have been her last day here at the site, too.: Yes. Okay.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That's what I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com I-

-I 1 understand.

2 Right.2\3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.4 .So that I believe, to the 5 best of -- that is the day, to the best of my 6 understanding, piecing this together as we talk --7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.8--, -- and as I recall her 9 comments, they -- she wasn't reading -- she didn't 10 like read a statement.

She was making eye contact, 11 and, you know, giving a very powerful oration. But as 12 I recall that when I read this this morning for the 13 first time I had seen it --14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.15 -- as I recall the meeting, 16 this generally follows' the gist of what she was 17 saying.18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And what you're 19 reading, it's in Book 1 and it's titled, "Leaving PSEG 20 Nuclear, Reflections of a Changed (inaudible)." 21 I'm going to go off the record and turn 22 the tape over to Side B.23 (End of Tape 1, Side A. Beginning of Tape 1, Side B.)24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. It's 25 2:33. We turned over to Side B.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

• o 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 want to ask you a question about when Kim came into what we believe is a March 28th meeting, and what we've just been talking about. During any of her discussion at that meeting, did she make a claim that her position was -- had been eliminated, because she had raised any type of concern or issue'here at the plant?ATo the best of my knowledge, no. And what -- what gives me some confidence in that is this document "Leaving PSEG" that she -- that she didn't exactly read that was pretty much the script she followed in this very heartfelt good-bye.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.Just scanning it here, I don't see any references to that in this document.And this document follows, to the best of my recollection, her -- the conversation in that meeting.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Now, c~n you tell me who else would have been at the meeting, at least maybe a few names?( 'I can tell you who typically went t. staff meetings.

You could probably get with ,go back to March 28th, and probably confirm some or all of this.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. Did NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 vw.nealrgross.com 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 she -- was attendance taken at --I' No. But there's a meeting notice, and people say they're either going to accept or they decline, and at least it's a place to start.One could assume the people that accepted were there with the exception if they had a family emergency or-- I mean, you get most of the weight of this question.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I've asked for a lot of documents.

I'd like to ask, if such a document exists for -- a meeting notice for March 20th, I'd like to get a copy of that.-Yes, we'd be glad to provide the meeting minutes. I can (inaudible) provide that.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.is--ow Can I retract my previous statement?

Now that I think of how she does that, I think she put that Friday meeting as a repetitive meeting.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. If something exists, I'd like to have it.It may or may not be --SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: You can let me know. That's fine.But to answer your question, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

/

1 it would have been the draft reports of:'2 on March 28th. And I believe Jeff Keenan at least 3 occasionally attended that meeting when he was 4 available and --5 MR. KEENAN: Yes. And just for the 6 record, that's the period when I had, 7 last year, so --a SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I was going to 9 put your under oath.10 (Laughter.)

11 MR. KEENAN: So I won't be a fact witness 12 for this --13 w For the purposes of this 14 conversation, I mean, we would assume it was 9- J 15 slf, aybe81MIWROM our L6 vim- was not -- was not -- you know, 17 he was a routine attender.18 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: 19 would have been 20 there. And that would have been it in that timeframe.

21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Would sit 22 in on these meetings?23 1 1 No. No.24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.25 ,-- .Typically not.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.2 Okay. Let's talk about this -- these two issues here 3 -- one, the decision to eliminate her position, and 4 the second issue that I'm looking at is the decision 5 to accelerate her leaving the site.6 Did you have any -- did you take part in 7 any discussions where the decision was made to 8 accelerate her leaving the site?9No.10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Do you 11 know why that occurred?12 4M:` No. As I previously 13 testified, to the best of my knowledge, her date of 14 leaving I found out by virtue of her coming into that 15 meeting --16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.17 -- and reading this 18 statement that we-discussed previously.

19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.20 Let's talk about Dr. Harvan and you a little bit. At 21 any point did she bring to you concerns that she had 22 about production over safety type of issues here at 23 the plant?24 .- She brought forward some 25 relationship-type issues, and she was -- she kept a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 pretty good (inaudible) on the operations superintendents, and talked to them -- had relationships with them. And some of the events that we talked about at our last interview on the safety conscious work environment and her -- and the SRO meeting at Salem that you and I discussed in the previous interview

--SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay....-- you know, were issues that .you'd bring to me, and I would try to work through -- hence, go to the meeting like we talked about to help resolve those. Directly bringing the issue -- I was worried that we had too much, you know, that that was having an adverse impact on the station.I don't recall our ever being that direct.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Would she ever be this direct to you, that she thought that culture was negatively affecting nuclear safety here at the plant -- at either of the plants?Are you doing that as a cloak?a question.(202) 234-4433 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: No.Okay.SR SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I'm asking you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 \ Okay. I do recall there was 2 a meeting at which, you know -- that we were in every 3 day. I'm going to guess this was a 9:00 meeting.4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.5 %,And every day -- nominally, 6 every day when we were onsite, not offsite, all of our 7 VPs and the directors would get together at 9:00 every 8 morning in the VP of Ops conference room, and just 9 make sure that we understood what the plant status 10 was, any (inaudible) to generation, and then, you 11 know, any other issues that we needed to discuss.12 And, you know, those conversations sometimes branched 13 into, you know, any number of conversations.

14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.15 ....... AndKim was a -- Kim was a 16 -- we allowed Kim to come to that meeting, and that 17 was one of the places she had access to, you know, 18 provide us feedback on what she saw. And in one of 19 those meetings -- and I don't recall when it was -- I 20 mean, you know, nominally sometime in the -- I'll say 21 spring, summer-ish of 2002 --22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.23 : -- I was still the 24 -- she made a statement similar in a conversation to 25 the statement you made when you asked the question.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 And I remember -- and that was in a group setting --2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.3 and I remember saying 4 that, you knowq, "Kim, do you -- on what basis do you 5 say that?" I mean, that's pretty global, and most 6 people when they talk about nuclear safety, you know, 7 talk in the context of, you know, it caused us to rush 8 too fast, and we didn't do all of our surveillance 9 testing or --10 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.11 know, there's a piece 12 of equipment out there that we didn't -- you know, 13 because of the culture, you know, we're not fixing 14 equipment right, and here's a specific example of a 15 piece of equipment or a pump. She could provide no 16 answers like that, and didn't advocate that position 17 any more.18 And I think we agreed with her in the 19 conversation that there -- you know, there were -- you 20 know, there were leadership and cultural issues that 21 we were working through, which was why we had her 22 helping us, that, you know, we didn't see any evidence 23 and she didn't provide any more in the conversation

--24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.25 about, you know, anything NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 that would draw it to where you could make a connection with nuclear safety.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I think there is a couple of quotes to -- in talking about this meeting which you just brought up. From what I understand, she made a statement and was challenged, but it wasn't you. Someone at the meeting challenged her and went through a list of questions talking about some of the things you just talked about -- any specifics, you know, was it directly tied to a nuclear safety issue.Do you remember that occurring after she made this general statement?

Yes, I do remember that occurring, and, you know, I remember that -- despite what you just said, I remember asking a few of those types of questions

--SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.-- myself.SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.(Inaudible.)

SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: That's all right.nw But I think there was a group -- I mean, it was, you know, a conversation NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neatrgross.com

/I 1 where we were all trying to -- in case she had 2 something specific, get to it, so we could go act on 3 it.4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.5 .But in the end, as a result 6 of that conversation, there really were no specifics.

7 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right.8 And I remember, you know 9 telling her that, you know, in this industry, you 10 know, when we say nuclear safety and concern --11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.12 --that means something 13 unique, and she admitted/she wasn't aware. As I 14 recall, she didn't -- she wasn't aware of that 15 connection, and that is consistent with my testimony.

16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. It's --17 ": You're looking at Mr.18 McGarry's testimony.

19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 2:42. I'm 20 going to take a short break. I'm going to have you 21 read -- I think this is probably the last thing, and 22 then we'll go back on the record after you have a 23 chance to look at it. It's 2:42.24 (Whereupon, the proceedings in the 25 foregoing matter went off the record at NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

• o 1 2:42 p.m. and went back on the record at 2 2:45 p.m.)3 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. It's 4 2:45. We're back on the record.5 )what I'm going to be asking 6 you about it-the addendum to a followup interview 7 conducted by Mr. McGarry and Adam Herman of Winston &8 Strawn. And it looks like it was via 9 teleconference

--10 I believe that to be true.11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: -- on April 23, 12 2003, and there's a transcript of it. And on page 2, 13 Mr. McGarry is asking you questions about Kim Harvan 14 never raising specific safety concerns.

Your answer, 15 no, and then you and I talked a little bit about this 16 area is probed on pages 5 through 7 of the original 17 interview by Mr. McGarry.18 But he comes back to you on line 16 about, 19 do you recall her providing any specifics to amplify 20 that issue. And the issue -- what issue is he talking 21 about there? Is it the one just above it on page 2?22 Do you want my opinion or --23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Well --24 W I'm not going to tell you 25 what some lawyer that I don't even know --NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.2 --is trying to ask on 3 something eight months ago.4 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.5 I mean, that's all right.6 I assume in the conversation I was in -- my answer is 7 assuming that she's talking -- he is talking about the 8 occurrence that I just testified to you about --9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.10 1-- that I described in this 11 investigation on pages 5 to 7 of the original 12 transcripts.

My assumption in my answer to that 13 question --14 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.15 --is he is talking about 16 that occurrence.

17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: The one where 18 she makes a statement at the meeting?19 FThe statement

--20 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. All 21 right. Okay.22 SAnd, again, you'd have to 23 ask the gentleman

--24 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.25 : -- yourself.

I'd be NEAL R. GROSS I COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 speculating.

2 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And --3 That's how I answered the 4 question.5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: And we've 6 already gone over your testimony that yourself and 7 others at the meeting asked him for specifics on why 8 she said what she said, and why she felt that way, and 9 there were none provided.

Is that correct?10 .There were no specific 11 issues. I mean, let's go back to page 2.12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.13 Like, you know, just 14 (inaudible) the specifics, like the kind you and I 15 would be talking about in other investigations where 16 you can actually tie it back to something.

17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes.18 ,Z*ou know, there's a design 19 margin not being met, because someone didn't have --20 you know, these are examples.

I have no knowledge of 21 this occurring at Salem or Hope Creek. For 22 illustrative purposes, where, you know, design margins 23 are poor and nobody brought it up, he is afraid to 24 bring it up, or we -- you know, somebody forgot to do 25 it, so they all discussed it, and there's -- for some NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 reason, you know, we're not being forthright, getting 2 that information off the crew, you know, management 3 doesn't know about it, or management knew about it and 4 took the wrong action.5 I mean, you know, those kinds of examples, 6 and I'm sure you could list in your job far more than 7 I could. She could provide nothing that you could tie 8 back to safety directly.9 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Did you 10 consider her general statement, though, to be her 11 raising a nuclear safety concern? Just the fact that 12 she -- she's saying this? Was that considered by 13 yourself or the group?14 I think after -- after *we 15 had our conversation with her, I think our impression 16 was after -- just remember she has a relationship with 17 us, so she isn't like an employee we don't know in the 18 Office of the Vice President.

She's there at 9:00 19 every day. This is a -- this comes up in a 20 conversation, not like somebody running down the hall, 21 in the room, "I have a nuclear safety concern." We're 22 in a conversation.

23 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.24 About the issue. And we're 25 it's a conversation.

She brings that up. The NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 conversation continues about, "Hey, give us some 2 specifics." You know, the -- you know, "nuclear 3 safety concern" means something in this industry, and 4 you may or may not be aware of it because of your 5 background.

6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.7". You know, let's get some 8 specifics.

And in the end, she -- I think she walked 9 away. I believe she walked away. But it really --10 she couldn't really give it as a nuclear safety 11 concern. It was a management issue we were trying to 12 work through to improve the leadership.

13 You know, right, wrong, or indifferent, 14 when we walked away from that meeting we believed that 15 -- I mean, I believe -- I won't speak for anybody 16 else --17 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right. Fair 18 enough.19 .-I believed it wasn't a --20 that even she realized that she wasn't quite sure what 21 she had said when she said it in that manner.22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Did she bring 23 anything like -- similar to that up again in your/24 presence after that day?25 .Not that I recall.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: All right. All 2 right. It's 2:50. I'm just going to check my notes 3 one more time, and then we're going to finish up. If 4 you want to take this time to think about if you want 5 to add something

-- it's 2:50. We'll go off the 6 record.7 (Whereupon, the proceedings in the 8 foregoing matter went off the record at 9 2:50 p.m. and went back on the record at 10 3:01 p.m.)11 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. It's 12 about 3:00 -- 3:01 in the afternoon.

13 I don't have any further questions.

But, 14 Mr. Keenan, is there something that 15 you'd like to add for the record that we haven't 16 gotten to yet?7 17 : Thank you. With regard to 18 -- we had & questioning line earlier in our 19 conversation today about, you know, the nature of the 20 relationship I had with Kim, and some of the coaching 21 and feedback I may or may not have given her along the 22 way.23 I'd like to say at the end we talked about 24 a meeting that nominally was around March 28th when 25 she, you know, gave a heartfelt good-bye speech -- is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 the only way I coulrd. conclude it -- at the end of one 2 O wiitaff meetings.3 After that meeting got over, I had a 4 private conversation with her, and, you know, actually 5 gave her a hug -- and a very pleasant conversation and 6 asked her, you know, what she was going to do. And 7 she said she was going to finish her second book she 8 was working on.9 She was a published author on another 10 book, and I asked her if she could send me a reference 11 or some -- some advice on how we would -- how she 12 would get a book published, because I personally am 13 working on a book and would appreciate, once I got it 14 done, knowing, you know, the pathway that you would 15 use to get it published.

16 And, you know, somewhere about three or 17 four weeks after, you know, she left her employment at 18 PSEG in the, you know, April timeframe, I had given 19 her my home e-mail address and she sent me that 20 information and wished me, you know, good luck.21 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. Have you 22 had any other communications with her?23 I have had no other 24 communications with her, but she was thoughtful enough 25 to follow up with that -- with that e-mail.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.2 She made a commitment to me.3 And if I was asked, "How did we part company as a 4 relationship?" I mean, we parted company very well.5 And I actually would have, you know, somehow -- you 6 know, I was just confused.

I was actually confused.7 When -- when the letter:. to that you 8 mentioned surfaced, that really -- that really struck 9 me as -- as very unusual, and I would not have 10 predicted that, I mean, based on her behavior and the 11 communications that we had after she left.12 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: It's 13 interesting

-- the letter would have been sent 14 before this March 28th meeting. I think the 15 letter is March 26th or -- it's definitely before the 16 28th.17 There was no knowledge at 18 that March 28th meeting of the existence of the --19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. You 20 didn't know --21 I had no idea.22 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.23 I was not aware of that 24 letter for weeks afterwards.

25 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. All NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.corn v

1 right. Well, I mean, when was the -- when was that?2 ;W,01*11101, His first interview was 3 April 4th, so, you know, it was after that that I was 4 made aware.5 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay. All 6 right.7 : ) And, in fact, now that I 8 think about it, I'm almost certain she didn't -- she 9 wouldn't -- I don't think she was that prompt, because 10 I'm remembering that it was a couple of weeks after 11 that meeting. It wasn't like the next day she sent me 12 that letter.13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Okay.14 So she probably already had 15 some (inaudible) letter now that I'm --16 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.17-- now that we're 18 reconstructing the timeline.19 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Yes, that's 20 right.21 But anyway, all of that 22 being said, you know, I thought we had a very good 23 relationship, and at the time she left was, you know, 24 looking forward to maintaining a professional

--25 professional contact with her.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: Right.2 .1 Obviously, in the 3 (inaudible) .letters to the CEO and lawsuits against 4 the company, my enthusiasm for. maintaining that 5 professional contact has waned.6 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: I don't have 7 any other questions at this point. It's 3:05 in the 8 afternoon.

9 Jeff, is there something you want to go 10 over with your client?11 MR. KEENAN: 'No, nothing further. Thank 12 you.13 SR. SPECIAL AGENT TEATOR: 14 this interview is concluded.

Thank you.15 (Whereupon, at 3:05 p.m., the interview 16 was concluded.)

17 18 19 20 21 22 /23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com