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{{#Wiki_filter:Official Trancript of ProcedIgs  
{{#Wiki_filter:Official Trancript of ProcedIgs ,"
," NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION C Interview o Title: Ty Docket Number: Location: 1-2003-051 F Hancock's Bridge, New Jersey Date: Friday, October 24, 2003 (.Work Order No.: NRC-1203 Pages 1-20 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.I.. :. in this record was deleled Washington, D.C. 20005.accordance with the Freedom of lnformation (202) 2344433 Act, exemptions  
C NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
, FOIA-0/  
 
.1 (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS INTERVIEW---------------------------
==Title:==
x IN THE MATTER OF: INTERVIEW OF (-C'-)(CLOSED) <-: Docket No.: 1-2003-051F
Interview o Ty Docket Number:                   1-2003-051 F Location:                        Hancock's Bridge, New Jersey Date:                           Friday, October 24, 2003
(.-------------------------
(.
x Friday, October 24, 2003 Resident Inspector's Office Salem/Hope Creek Nuclear Power Station Hancock's Bridge, New Jersey The above-entitled interview was conducted at 1:00 p.m.BEFORE:.1 Special Agent MARK A. ANDERSON NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neafrgross.com (202) 234-4433 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 ALSO PRESENT: MARK FERDAS Hope Creek Resident Inspector CHARLES HASSLER IBEW LOCAL 94 Business Representative NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www.nealrgross.com A5 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 1:00 p.m.3 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
Work Order No.:                 NRC-1203                           Pages 1-20 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Today is October 4 24, 2003. The time is now approximately 1:00 p.m.5 This is an interview of How do you pronounce 6 your last name?7 '1 8 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Spiese, okay, S-9 P-I-E-S-E, who is employed by PSE&G at the Hope Creek 10 Station. The location of this interview is the 11 Resident Inspector's Office at the Salem Station.12 Present at this interview are myself, Mark A.13 Anderson, Special Agent with the Office of 14 Investigations, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 15 Region I, King of Prussia, Pennsylvania and Mark 16 Ferdas, Resident Inspector at the Hope Creek 17 Station. Also present is Charles Hassler, 18 H-A-S-S-L-E-R, Business Agent with IBEW Local 94 who 19 is here with today. I talked wit1 20 bout this prior to going on the record. He is 21 happy to have him present and with him at the 22 interview today. This interview is being recorded.23 A transcript will be produced of the interview.
I.. :. in this record was deleled             Washington, D.C. 20005
The 24 subject matter of the interview concerns the safety 25 conscious work environment at the Salem and Hope Creek NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
. accordance with the Freedom of lnformation         (202) 2344433 Act, exemptions           ,
.. f !lam Alm. 1W (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com  
FOIA-                                                                               0/
/1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Stations and related issues to that. At this time, Kwould you raise your right hand so I can swear you in?WHEREUPON, was called as a witness and, having been first duly sworn, was examined and testified as follows: SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
 
Could you state your full name for the record please?SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
                                                                                        .1 1                   UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2               NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
We did speak before going on the record about having Mr. Hassler here with you today. You are comfortable viith that and want that.Absolutely, yes.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
(
Could you state your address please?a*&#xfd;-'SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
3 4                   OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5                                 INTERVIEW 6 --------------------------- x 7  IN   THE MATTER OF:
Your current position here.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
8  INTERVIEW OF                       :   Docket No.
Your home NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERSDfll !I AV;. N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 41 5 1 telephone number.2 3 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
9                                    :   1-2003-051F (CLOSED)      (-C'-)<-
Work number.4 5 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
10 11    ------------------------- x 12                                    Friday,     October 24,     2003 13
Date of birth.7 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
(. 14                                  Resident Inspector's Office 15                                  Salem/Hope Creek Nuclear Power 16                                  Station 17                                  Hancock's Bridge,         New Jersey 18 19                  The above-entitled interview was conducted 20  at 1:00 p.m.
Social security 8 number.9 .10 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
21 22  BEFORE:
Could you just go 11 through a little bit of your education history and 12 what got you into the nuclear business and got you to 13 your position here?*~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~. ...:*  
23                  Special Agent MARK A.               ANDERSON 24
......*, .... 14 15 as a believe it or 16 not. My second semester senior year the companies 17 started coming in to interview perspective employees.
.1 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS (202) 234-4433          WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701       www.neafrgross.com
18 Commonwealth Edison Company was one of the first ones 19 that came in. They opened up the interviews to all 20 the shops because id have a power plant 21 technology trade there.22 Being young and -trying to get into the 23 whole thing about getting a job, I took the test. I 24 passed the tests. I passed all their tests and was 25 offered a job as an ..... ....-: NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4,223 RHOfDE !S'..!D AVE., M.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 '_.-* SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
 
In this same 8 department.
1 ALSO PRESENT:
9 Same department, yes, since 10 11 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
2               MARK FERDAS 3               Hope Creek Resident Inspector 4
Who would be your 12 current supervisor in the position you are in now?13 :1 14 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
5               CHARLES HASSLER 6               IBEW LOCAL 94 Business Representative 7
What would his 15 title be?16 17*1 8 ... ." * .. ..19 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
8 9
We talked about 20 that we're here to talk about the safety conscious 21 work environment.
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS (202) 234-4433      WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
I guess the first thing I would ask 22 is if you had a concern with regard to a nuclear 23 safety concern here would you know how you would raise 24 that.25 NEAL R. GROSS .--COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
 
What would be 2 your preference for how you would raise a concern like 3 that. How would you normally do it if you had one?4 M I would immediately go to my 5 supervisor or if my supervisor was on-site, the duty 6 supervisor.
A5 1                           P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2                                                                     1:00 p.m.
There's always one there. I would 7 explain the situation to him with as much detail as I 8 could give him so he could have an idea of what was 9 going on.10 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
3                       SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               Today is October 4 24,     2003.       The time is     now approximately 1:00 p.m.
What would 11 normally be done with that? What would be standard as 12 far as if there was an issue and how would they handle 13 it?14 They have a notification 15 process. Notification would be generated to document-16 it electronically and for tracking.217 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
5 This is       an interview of                       How do you pronounce 6 your last name?
Would that 18 supervisor have you write that notification or does 19 the supervisor normally do it?20 I could write the 21 notification, yes. It would all depend on the 22 situation, the workload for the day, what I was doing 23 when I identified the concern. But either one of us 24 could write the notification.
7                   '1 8                       SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               Spiese, okay, S-9 P-I-E-S-E, who is             employed by PSE&G at the Hope Creek 10   Station.           The   location       of   this     interview     is     the 11   Resident         Inspector's       Office     at     the   Salem   Station.
We usually would concur 25 on the content of the notification and make sure we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.II (202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com l!
12   Present         at   this     interview       are     myself,     Mark       A.
1 2 (3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 C' 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 didn't to assu time?I woul generat few.miss anything.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
13 Anderson,             Special       Agent     with       the     Office         of 14   Investigations,           U.S. Nuclear       Regulatory       Commission 15 Region       I,     King   of Prussia,         Pennsylvania       and Mark 16 Ferdas,         Resident         Inspector       at     the   Hope     Creek 17 Station.                           Also present is Charles Hassler, 18 H-A-S-S-L-E-R,           Business Agent with IBEW Local 94 who 19 is     here with                         today.         I talked wit1 20               bout this prior to going on the record.                       He is 21 happy       to     have   him present           and     with   him   at     the 22 interview today.               This interview is           being recorded.
Would it be safe me that you have written some of those over 1Yes, I have written some but dn't consider myself one of the larger Drs of notifications.
23 A transcript will be produced of the interview.                                 The 24 subject matter of the interview concerns the safety 25 conscious work environment at the Salem and Hope Creek NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS
But I have written a SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
                                .. f   !lam Alm. 1W (202) 2344433               WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701         www.nealrgross.com
Have you ever been given any negative feedback about generating one or about bringing an issue forth or anything like that?? NNever.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
 
No way given the crappier jobs to do because you-have brought something forward.No, sir, we actually have a really open environment in radiation protection.
1 Stations and related issues to that.                       At this time, 2                  Kwould you raise your right hand so I can
They stress on a frequent basis the fact that if there is anything they welcome it.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
/
So no comments like "Couldn't you have taken care of this another way so we don't have to do a notification?"~No.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
3  swear you in?
Okay.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 -N You know how long I have been 2 here. Most of my department has been here about the 3 same amount of time. We have a really good core group 4 of people that have a lot of years of experience.
4  WHEREUPON, 5
5 They know the right way to do things including 6 supervisors.
6  was called as a witness and,                   having been first           duly 7  sworn,       was examined and testified as follows:
We have had supervisors here for a long 7 time also.8 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
8                    SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 Could you state 9  your full name for the record please?
If a notification 9 like that is generated in the radiation protection 10 area as far as in your work group, is that the type of 11 thing that gets put into the system? Does it often 12 come back to radiation protection to resolve it? Do 13 you understand what I'm asking?14. It depends on the topic of 15 the notification.
10                                                                                      a*&#xfd;-'
It could very well be. It goes off 16 into the review process and they decide whose in-box 17 it gets put back into.18 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
11 12                      SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                   We did       speak 13  before going on the record about having Mr.                           Hassler 14  here with you today.               You are comfortable viith that 15  and want that.
There is never 19 any negative feedback with regard to that like it's 20 just more-work for us.21 No, sir. We have been 22 fortunate on the site here not to have had a fatality.23 Anytime you are in any one place in an industry like 24 this for as long as I have been here to not to have 25 one, that's a pretty lucky string. But we have had a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com iu (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10.11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 (.lot of accidents and stuff like that.They give us training and they look at the safety pyramid and see so many first aid cases and so many near misses. It eventually comes up to a point in the pyramid being a fatality.
16                                          Absolutely,       yes.
That's one thing that we never want to see.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
17                      SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 Could you state 18  your address please?
Right.So with that in mind, it's open and honest and whatever you have to say.MR. FERDAS: What about other departments?
19 20 21                      SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                   Your     current 22  position here.
This would be hearsay. Is there anything that you hear about that and being able to identify problems and raise problems?Not that's ever been brought to my attention.
23 24 41 25                      SPECIAL     AGENT       ANDERSON:         Your       home NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS     AND TRANSCRIBERS 132.*-PO Dfll!I     AV;. N.W.
I have been a" ..... .. .. ... ." ......I act as aIf any. of that was out there, we wouldn't tolerate it. We would handle it as a union official in our procedure as far as that goes. So no, sir..SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
(202) 234-4433           WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701           www.nealrgross.com
With regard to the generation of notifications, do they usually get back to you as far as what's been done with it? Do you feel that process works as far as getting the issue addressed and letting people know what has NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.comn q
 
.L .L 1 happened with it? What's your experience with that?2 You can check the status of (3 the notification.
5 1     telephone number.
When you generate it, the last 4 thing you get is a number. If you maintain that-5 number in your records, you can check the status of it 6 at any time. We also have a gentleman that you would 7 contact after you generate to let him know that 8 there's one "in the box," (PH).9 He usually gives updates. If you ever 10 have a question, just call him. That's basically his 11 function for the most part is to deal with that. So 12 it's not a problem to be able to follow the 13 notification through to its completion.
2 3                       SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                   Work number.
14 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:  
4 5                       SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                   Date of birth.
*How do you feel 15 about the handling 'f it? Is the issue addressed 16 completely?
7                       SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                   Social security 8     number.
Is the issue resolved?17 M I would say yes for the most 18 part. Sometimes there's always one or two things that 19 you might not have gone exactly the way you thought it 20 would have, but there's different techniques of doing 21 anything.22 23 24 25 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
9                                               .
But it's pretty clear it gets addressed to some extent.Absolutely.
10                         SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 Could you just go 11       through a little             bit of your education history and 12       what got you into the nuclear business and got you to 13       your position here?
SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
*~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~. *=;'          .. .:*
Any negative NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 12 1 experience at all in dealing with the corrective 2 action program or with the notification program either 3 that you have had or that you are aware of?4 I have never had a negative 5 experience.
14 15                                             as a                     believe it         or 16       not.       My second semester senior year the companies 17       started coming in to interview perspective employees.
6 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
18       Commonwealth Edison Company was one of the first ones 19       that came in.           They opened up the interviews to all 20     the shops because                                   id have a power plant 21     technology trade there.
What about the 7 employee concerns program? Are you familiar with 8 that?9 sir.10 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
22                       Being young and -trying to get into the 23     whole thing about getting a job, I took the test.                                   I 24     passed the tests.               I passed all their tests and was 25     offered       a job     as     an       .....                                   ....- :
Would you say 11 that most of the people in your experience in the O 12 would be aware of the employee concerns 13 program?14 P XWEach and every technician in 15 my department is aware of the employee concerns 16 program, yes.17 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 4,223 RHOfDE !S'..!D AVE., M.W.
Have you ever 18 dealt with the employee concerns program.at all?19 Ys 20 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
(202) 234-4433             WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701             www.nealrgross.com
How did you feel 21 that that process went for you?22 It went well. Again, I was 23 dealing as an I wasn't the person actually 24 going out with a concern. I have done numerous 25 concerns over the years. The gentlemen they have had NEAL R. GROSS .COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com
 
* o 14 1 assigned to that position have always been most 2 professional.
0 1
3 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
2 3
Again, is that a 4 situation where issues are raised and you feel they 5 are addressed completely even though you might not get 6 the result you are looking for?7 i That's correct.8 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
4 5
No problems with 9 that program.10 Sir 11 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
6 7 '_.-*                   SPECIAL AGENT           ANDERSON:       In   this       same 8       department.
Have you ever 12 seen anything negative, again, for somebody going to 13 them and being retaliated against for using that 14 program?15 , I have not.16 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
9                                               Same department,       yes,     since 10 11                           SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               Who would be your 12       current supervisor in the position you are in now?
You would be 17 aware of that in youro 18 .Yes, I would. They would 19 call me at home I'm sure if I wasn't here.20 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
13                                                                 :1 14                           SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 What would his 15       title       be?
So that's not 21 something you have seen at all.22 MV No, sir.23 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
16 17
Any other 24 information on the employee concerns program that you 25 are aware of as far as concerns about its independence NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 14 1 or anything like that?3 gentleman that I have dealt with. He's really good at 4 it.5 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
*1 8     .   ..         . " * .. . .
What about issues 6 with dealing with the NRC? Are people aware that they 7 can go to the NRC if they are dissatisfied with the 8 way something is handled or is not addressed fully-9 enough?10 Yes, sir.11 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
19                           SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 We talked about 20       that we're here to talk about the safety conscious 21       work environment.             I guess the first         thing I would ask 22       is     if   you had a concern with regard to a nuclear 23       safety concern here would you know how you would raise 24       that.
Again, you would 12 say that's across the board people are aware of that.13 MDown to the last man of the 14 technicians in my department would know that's there, 15 that they have that avenue.16 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
25 NEAL R. GROSS                                   .   --
Have you ever 17 heard any comments about you better not go to the NRC 18 or just negative statements that it's not a good idea 19 to go to see the NRC?20 :7No, sir.21 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
You have never 22 seen anybody adversely affected by having gone to the 23 NRC and spoken to them?24 ,No, sir. Again, we wouldn't 25 tolerate thatt.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON.
(202) 234-4433             WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701         www.nealrgross.com
D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
 
What about if 2 somebody speaks to the NRC or speaks to somebody from 3 INPO or something along those lines? Is there ever an 4 attempt to debrief those people when they come back?5 What did you say? What did they say? Anything along 6 those lines?7 Not formalized.
1                       SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 What would be 2     your preference for how you would raise a concern like 3     that.       How would you normally do it             if you had one?
A lot of us 8 are friends. We have been here forlIUk&#xfd;9 to it but never a formalized, sit you down, rake you 10 over the coals type thing, never. Maybe some idle 11 conversations.
4                     M                   I would immediately go to my 5     supervisor or if       my supervisor was on-site,             the duty 6     supervisor.         There's     always     one   there.     I     would 7     explain the situation to him with as much detail as I 8     could give him so he could have an idea of what was 9     going on.
12 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
10                       SPECIAL     AGENT     ANDERSON:         What     would 11     normally be done with that?             What would be standard as 12       far as if there was an issue and how would they handle 13       it?
But not 13 management trying to get the take on what took place.14 NO.15 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
14                                             They have         a notification 15     process.       Notification would be generated to document-16       it   electronically and for tracking.
I think I know 16 the answer to this. What about freedom that if you 17 are interacting with the NRC or somebody comes up to 18 you and asks you a question, an NRC person? Have you 19 ever heard there's a fear of being up-front with them 20 or you give them the company line instead of saying 21 what the real answer is that you want to give? Have 22 you ever heard anything along that line at all?23 No, sir, quite the contrary.24 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
217                       SPECIAL     AGENT     ANDERSON:         Would       that 18     supervisor have you write that notification or does 19     the supervisor normally do it?
I'm just trying 25 to think if I have anything else. Do you have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 2344433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 anything?2 MR. FERDAS: In terms of nuclear safety, 3 do you know of any issues out there that are not being 4 addressed that could affect nuclear safety or 5 industrial safety? Do you have any concerns in either 6 of those areas?7 No, sir. True to our 8 conversation with the Hope Creek dry well (PH) but 9 that's a little bit out of the scope.10 MR. FERDAS: Your technicians, when they 11 are in the field, they know the avenues if they 12 observe anything that they think is abnormal, the 13 process that they need to go through.14 Yes, sir.15 MR. FERDAS: None of them have ever said 16 to you that they had a nuclear safety concern.17
20                                                 I     could   write         the 21     notification,       yes.       It   would     all   depend   on     the 22     situation, the workload for the day, what I was doing 23     when I identified the concern.                 But either one of us 24     could write the notification.             We usually would concur 25     on the content of the notification and make sure we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
* is a 18 little bit different animal as compared to operations,.19 but no sir, no one has ever come to me stating they 20 had a nuclear safety. When I hear nuclear safety, you 21 can think of it in different ways. We address 22 radiation protection safety which I guess you could 23 say is nuclear safety.24 MR. FERDAS: Right.25 ml Immediately that's our job.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 We're the safety guys as far as operation of the plant 2 and stuff like that.3 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
II l!
What about with 4 regard to your first line management and if there's an 5 issue in""- hat they needed to take 6 forward beyond their level? Have you ever heard of 7 the first line management being calibrated or whatever 8 for bringing an issue like that forward?9 .1 have never heard of that.10 That's basically their business.
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We conduct our 11 business and that's their business.12 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
 
Yes, I just 13 didn't know if they came back and said I took that 14 issue up and got crapped on for it.15 AWN " No, sir 16 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
1 didn't        miss anything.
Any other issues 17 with regard to safety here at Salem or Hope Creek? Do 18 you think it's trending in the right direction where 19 you are seeing an adequate emphasis on safety? Is it 20 trending the right way? Is it trending the wrong way?21 What is your thought on that?22 As far as the emphasis on 23 safety, I believe that it's adequate.
2                     SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:            Would it    be safe
It's getting 24 more emphatic every day. Since the local has been -25 I don't want to say the words "has been allowed to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 wy.nealrgross.com 1 join in hand in hand with it" -but it has happened 2 over the last few years. The emphasis on safety has 3 become greater. We're more aware of it.4 They do job safety observations.
(
They do 5 job hazard analysis.
3 to assume that you have written some of those over 4  time?
They are doing a lot of things 6 by the book to try to identify things. Safety is a 7 weird thing to me as far as industrial safety goes.8 In my opinion, there's a little bit of luck involved 9 when it comes down to it. You could go a long time 10 and have nothing happen and then you could have a week 11 that's a disaster.
5                                      1Yes, I have written some but 6  I    woul dn't       consider       myself       one of   the     larger 7  generat Drs of notifications.                     But I have written a 8  few.
It could basically just come down 12 to things that were out of people's control. My 13 opinion is it's a little bit of a queer bird so to 14 speak.15 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
9                      SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               Have you ever 10    been given any negative feedback about generating one 11    or about bringing             an issue       forth or anything like 12    that?
That's why they 16 call them accidents, right?17 Yes 18 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
13                      ?     NNever.
You can do 19 everything you try to do right and you can still have 20 accidents.
C' 14                        SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:             No way given the 15    crappier jobs to do because you-have brought something 16    forward.
But from your standpoint, you think that 21 the emphasis on that and the concern by management is 22 adequate on the issue of safety.23 Yes, both management and 24 Local 94.25 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
17                                            No, sir, we actually have a 18  really open environment in radiation protection.                           They 19  stress on a frequent basis the fact that if                       there is 20  anything they welcome it.
What about the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.WASHINGTON.
21                        SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:             So no comments 22  like "Couldn't you have taken care of this another way 23  so we don't have to do a notification?"
D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 concept of production over safety, that there's a 2 greater emphasis on production and safety gets put to 3 the back burner? Is that something you think exists?4 What is your thought on that?5 I don't think believe it to 6 exist as far as my experience goes. We have been at 7 this a long time. We pretty much know how long it 8 takes to perform tasks and how to do it safe. They 9 preach to you make sure you are safe. We have safety 10 meetings in the morning. We have safety meetings with 11 little reaffirmations at lunch. They give us safety 12 messages.13 MR. FERDAS: Is management, to use the 14 saying, walking the talk, or is it just talk? Is 15 there action? Do you see that they take it seriously, 16 or is it just meetings and talk?17 -Yes, I believe they are doing 18 their part. From that point, when the meeting ends 19 and it's time to go to work, then it's our part 20 because they are not out there turning wrenches and 21 climbing ladders. At their point, I believe they are 22 doing their part. Now it's just up to us to do our 23 part.24 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
                              ~No.
Anything else you 25 would want to add or any other thoughts or concerns?NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE.. N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neafrgross.com 1 2 3 4 7 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SNo, sir.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Do you have anything else?MR. FERDAS: No.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
24 25                        SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:             Okay.
I'll just close here. I or any other NRC representative threatened you in any manner or offered you any rewards in return for this information?sir.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
Have you provided this information freely and voluntarily?
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W W Absolutely, yes, sir.SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
 
Is there anything (else you want to add to the record at this time?SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:
1                                   N- You know how long I have been 2 here.       Most of my department has been here about the 3 same amount of time.           We have a really good core group 4 of people       that have a lot of years of experience.
The time is 1:25 p.m. The interview is concluded.(Whereupon, the above-entitled mal concluded at 1:25 p.m.)now tter.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.WASHINGTON.
5 They       know   the   right     way     to   do   things     including 6 supervisors.         We have had supervisors here for a long 7 time also.
D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-.4433 www.nealrgross.com CERTIFICATE (This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of: Name of Proceeding:
8                     SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:             If a notification 9 like that is         generated in         the radiation protection 10 area as far as in your work group, is that the type of 11 thing that gets put into the system?                       Does it     often 12 come back to radiation protection to resolve it?                               Do 13 you understand what I'm asking?
Interview of Docket Number: 1-2003-051F Location:
: 14.                                       It   depends on the topic of 15 the notification.           It could very well be.             It goes off 16 into the review process and they decide whose in-box 17 it   gets put back into.
Hancock's Bridge, NJ were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape(s) provided by the NRC.Anne Marie Smith Official Transcriber Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com}}
18                     SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 There is     never 19 any negative feedback with regard to that like it's 20 just more-work for us.
21                                           No,   sir.       We   have     been 22 fortunate on the site here not to have had a fatality.
23 Anytime you are in           any one place in an industry like 24 this for as long as I have been here to not to have 25 one, that's a pretty lucky string.                     But we have had a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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iu 1 lot of accidents and stuff like that.
2                      They give us training and they look at the
(
3  safety pyramid and see so many first                         aid cases and so 4  many near misses.                 It   eventually comes up to a point 5  in   the pyramid being a fatality.                         That's one thing 6  that we never want to see.
7                      SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                   Right.
8                                              So with that in mind,               it's 9  open and honest and whatever you have to say.
10                      MR. FERDAS:           What about other departments?
    .11  This would be hearsay.                     Is there anything that you 12  hear about that and being able to identify problems 13  and raise problems?
(. 14                                            Not that's ever been brought 15  to my attention.               I have been a
                                          ..                     I act as a 16 17  ]Kt::rt.*fl='*Iay~~~,                                    If  any. of that was 18  out there,       we wouldn't tolerate it.                     We would handle 19  it   as a union official in our procedure as far as that 20  goes.       So no,     sir.
21                    .SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                     With regard to 22  the generation of notifications,                       do they usually get 23  back to you as far as what's been done with it?                                     Do 24  you feel that process works as far as getting the q
25  issue       addressed       and       letting   people       know what         has NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.
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                                                                                          .L .L 1 happened with it?             What's your experience with that?
(    2                                         You can check the status of 3   the     notification.         When you generate             it,   the     last 4   thing you get         is   a number.         If     you maintain that
  -5 number in your records, you can check the status of it 6 at any time.         We also have a gentleman that you would 7 contact       after   you     generate       to let       him know         that 8 there's one "in         the box,"                             (PH).
9                     He usually gives updates.                   If   you ever 10   have a question, just call him.                     That's basically his 11   function for the most part is                   to deal with that.               So 12   it's       not   a   problem       to   be     able     to     follow       the 13   notification through to its                 completion.
14                       SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               *How do you feel 15   about       the handling 'f         it?     Is   the issue addressed 16   completely?         Is the issue resolved?
17                     M                   I would say yes for the most 18   part.       Sometimes there's always one or two things that 19   you might not have gone exactly the way you thought it 20   would have, but there's different techniques of doing 21   anything.
22                     SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 But it's     pretty 23  clear it       gets addressed to some extent.
24                                          Absolutely.
25                      SPECIAL AGENT         ANDERSON:           Any   negative NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 experience         at all     in   dealing       with   the   corrective 2 action program or with the notification program either 3 that you have had or that you are aware of?
4                                         I have never had a negative 5 experience.
6                     SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               What about the 7 employee         concerns program?             Are you     familiar with 8 that?
9                                               sir.
10                     SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 Would you say 11 that most of the people in your experience in the O 12                     would be aware of the employee concerns 13 program?
14                     P       XWEach and every technician in 15 my       department     is     aware     of   the     employee   concerns 16 program, yes.
17                     SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 Have you ever 18 dealt with the employee concerns program.at all?
19                                         Ys 20                     SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               How did you feel 21 that that process went for you?
22                                         It   went well.       Again,     I was 23 dealing as an                         I wasn't the person actually 24 going         out with   a   concern.         I   have   done numerous 25 concerns over the years.                 The gentlemen they have had NEAL R. GROSS                                   .
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14 1 assigned     to   that     position       have     always   been       most 2 professional.
3                   SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               Again, is that a 4 situation where issues are raised and you feel they 5 are addressed completely even though you might not get 6 the result you are looking for?
7                                       i That's correct.
8                   SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               No problems with 9 that program.
10                                               Sir 11                   SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 Have you ever 12 seen anything negative,               again,     for somebody going to 13 them and being           retaliated       against     for   using       that 14 program?
15                 *      -*            , I have not.
16                   SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                   You would be 17 aware of that in youro 18                                     . Yes,   I   would.     They would 19 call me at home I'm sure if               I wasn't here.
20                   SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 So that's not 21 something you have seen at all.
22                     MV                 No,   sir.
23                   SPECIAL       AGENT     ANDERSON:           Any     other 24 information on the employee concerns program that you 25 are aware of as far as concerns about its                   independence NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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14 1 or anything like that?
3 gentleman that I have dealt with.               He's really good at 4 it.
5               SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:             What about issues 6 with dealing with the NRC?           Are people aware that they 7 can go to the NRC if         they are dissatisfied with the 8 way something is       handled or is           not addressed fully
-9 enough?
10                                   Yes,   sir.
11               SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:             Again, you would 12 say that's across the board people are aware of that.
13                               MDown to the last man of the 14 technicians in my department would know that's there, 15 that they have that avenue.
16               SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               Have you ever 17 heard any comments about you better not go to the NRC 18 or just negative statements that it's               not a good idea 19 to go to see the NRC?
20               :7No,                     sir.
21               SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               You have never 22 seen anybody adversely affected by having gone to the 23 NRC and spoken to them?
24                               ,No,   sir.       Again, we wouldn't 25 tolerate thatt.
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1                   SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:                 What about if 2 somebody speaks to the NRC or speaks to somebody from 3 INPO or something along those lines?                   Is there ever an 4 attempt to debrief those people when they come back?
5 What did you say?         What did they say?           Anything along 6 those lines?
7                                     Not formalized.         A lot of us 8 are friends.       We have been here forlIUk&#xfd; 9 to it     but never a formalized,           sit   you down, rake you 10 over the coals type thing,               never.       Maybe some idle 11 conversations.
12                   SPECIAL       AGENT       ANDERSON:           But       not 13 management trying to get the take on what took place.
14                                     NO.
15                   SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               I think I know 16 the answer to this.             What about freedom that if                 you 17 are interacting with the NRC or somebody comes up to 18 you and asks you a question,               an NRC person?       Have you 19 ever heard there's a fear of being up-front with them 20 or you give them the company line instead of saying 21 what the real answer is           that you want to give?               Have 22 you ever heard anything along that line at all?
23                                     No, sir,       quite the contrary.
24                   SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               I'm just trying 25 to     think   if   I   have   anything       else.     Do you       have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 anything?
2                     MR. FERDAS:       In terms of nuclear safety, 3 do you know of any issues out there that are not being 4 addressed         that       could     affect       nuclear     safety         or 5 industrial safety?               Do you have any concerns in either 6 of those areas?
7                                               No,     sir.     True     to     our 8 conversation with the Hope Creek dry well                           (PH)     but 9 that's a little             bit out of the scope.
10                     MR. FERDAS:     Your technicians,         when they 11 are     in   the   field,       they   know     the   avenues   if     they 12 observe       anything that         they think         is abnormal,       the 13 process that they need to go through.
14                                           Yes,   sir.
15                     MR. FERDAS:     None of them have ever said 16 to you that they had a nuclear safety concern.
17
* is     a 18 little     bit different animal as compared to operations,
.19 but no sir, no one has ever come to me stating they 20 had a nuclear safety.               When I hear nuclear safety, you 21 can     think     of   it     in   different       ways.     We   address 22 radiation protection safety which I guess you could 23 say is nuclear safety.
24                     MR. FERDAS:     Right.
25                       ml                 Immediately that's our job.
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1 We're the safety guys as far as operation of the plant 2 and stuff like that.
3                     SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:             What about with 4 regard to your first           line management and if         there's an 5 issue in""-                                   hat they needed to take 6 forward beyond their level?                 Have you ever heard of 7 the first       line management being calibrated or whatever 8 for bringing an issue like that forward?
9                                   .1   have never heard of that.
10 That's         basically   their business.             We conduct       our 11 business and that's their business.
12                     SPECIAL AGENT         ANDERSON:       Yes,     I   just 13 didn't know if         they came back and said I took that 14 issue up and got crapped on for it.
15                     AWN       "       No,   sir 16                     SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:           Any other issues 17 with regard to safety here at Salem or Hope Creek?                           Do 18 you think it's         trending in the right direction where 19 you are seeing an adequate emphasis on safety?                         Is it 20 trending the right way?             Is it   trending the wrong way?
21 What is your thought on that?
22                                         As far as the emphasis               on 23 safety,       I believe that it's         adequate.     It's   getting 24 more emphatic every day.               Since the local has been -
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1 join in hand in hand with it"             - but it   has happened 2 over the last few years.             The emphasis on safety has 3 become greater.       We're more aware of it.
4               They do job safety observations.               They do 5 job hazard analysis.           They are doing a lot of things 6 by the book to try to identify things.                 Safety is         a 7 weird thing to me as far as industrial safety goes.
8 In my opinion,     there's a little           bit of luck involved 9 when it   comes down to it.           You could go a long time 10 and have nothing happen and then you could have a week 11 that's a disaster.         It could basically just come down 12 to things   that were out of people's               control.           My 13 opinion is   it's   a little       bit of a queer bird so to 14 speak.
15               SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:             That's why they 16 call them accidents,         right?
17                                   Yes 18               SPECIAL       AGENT   ANDERSON:       You     can       do 19 everything you try to do right and you can still                     have 20 accidents. But from your standpoint,             you think that 21 the emphasis on that and the concern by management is 22 adequate on the issue of safety.
23                                     Yes,     both management         and 24 Local 94.
25               SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               What about the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 concept           of production over safety,                 that there's           a 2 greater emphasis on production and safety gets put to 3 the back burner?               Is   that something you think exists?
4 What is         your thought on that?
5                                           I don't think believe it               to 6 exist as far as my experience goes.                         We have been at 7 this a long time.                 We pretty much know how long it 8 takes to perform tasks and how to do it                         safe.       They 9 preach to you make sure you are safe.                         We have safety 10 meetings in the morning.                 We have safety meetings with 11 little         reaffirmations at lunch.               They give us safety 12 messages.
13                       MR. FERDAS:         Is   management,     to use the 14 saying,         walking the talk,             or is     it just talk?           Is 15 there action?             Do you see that they take it             seriously, 16 or is       it   just meetings and talk?
17                                   -     Yes,   I believe they are doing 18 their part.           From that point,           when the meeting ends 19 and     it's     time   to go       to work,       then it's     our part 20 because they are not out there turning wrenches and 21 climbing ladders.               At their point,           I believe they are 22 doing their part.                 Now it's     just up to us to do our 23 part.
24                       SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               Anything else you 25 would want to add or any other thoughts or concerns?
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1                 SNo,                    sir.
2                 SPECIAL      AGENT     ANDERSON:           Do you       have 3 anything else?
4                  MR. FERDAS:     No.
7                  SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               I'll   just close 6 here.             *have                  I     or   any     other       NRC 7 representative threatened you in any manner or offered 8 you any rewards in return for this information?
9                    *z~i*No,              sir.
10                  SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:             Have you provided 11  this information freely and voluntarily?
12                                  WW Absolutely, yes,           sir.
13                  SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:             Is there anything
( 14  else you want to add to the record at this time?
15 16                  SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON:               The time is now 17  1:25 p.m.       The interview is         concluded.
18                  (Whereupon,       the     above-entitled           mal tter 19                  concluded at 1:25 p.m.)
20 21 22 23 24
. 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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CERTIFICATE
(
This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:
Name of Proceeding:       Interview of Docket Number:           1-2003-051F Location:                 Hancock's Bridge, NJ were held as herein           appears,     and that this is         the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript       is a true     and   accurate     record   of     the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape(s) provided by the NRC.
Anne Marie Smith Official Transcriber Neal R. Gross & Co.,       Inc.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433         WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701       www.nealrgross.com}}

Latest revision as of 04:47, 23 March 2020

OI Interview Transcript of Witness, Pages 1-20
ML061770140
Person / Time
Site: Salem, Hope Creek  PSEG icon.png
Issue date: 10/24/2003
From:
NRC/OI
To:
References
1-2003-051F, FOIA/PA-2005-0194, NRC-1203
Download: ML061770140 (22)
v • d • e


Text

Official Trancript of ProcedIgs ,"

C NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

Title:

Interview o Ty Docket Number: 1-2003-051 F Location: Hancock's Bridge, New Jersey Date: Friday, October 24, 2003

(.

Work Order No.: NRC-1203 Pages 1-20 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.

Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.

I.. :. in this record was deleled Washington, D.C. 20005

. accordance with the Freedom of lnformation (202) 2344433 Act, exemptions ,

FOIA- 0/

.1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

(

3 4 OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS 5 INTERVIEW 6 --------------------------- x 7 IN THE MATTER OF:

8 INTERVIEW OF  : Docket No.

9  : 1-2003-051F (CLOSED) (-C'-)<-

10 11 ------------------------- x 12 Friday, October 24, 2003 13

(. 14 Resident Inspector's Office 15 Salem/Hope Creek Nuclear Power 16 Station 17 Hancock's Bridge, New Jersey 18 19 The above-entitled interview was conducted 20 at 1:00 p.m.

21 22 BEFORE:

23 Special Agent MARK A. ANDERSON 24

.1 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.neafrgross.com

1 ALSO PRESENT:

2 MARK FERDAS 3 Hope Creek Resident Inspector 4

5 CHARLES HASSLER 6 IBEW LOCAL 94 Business Representative 7

8 9

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

A5 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 1:00 p.m.

3 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Today is October 4 24, 2003. The time is now approximately 1:00 p.m.

5 This is an interview of How do you pronounce 6 your last name?

7 '1 8 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Spiese, okay, S-9 P-I-E-S-E, who is employed by PSE&G at the Hope Creek 10 Station. The location of this interview is the 11 Resident Inspector's Office at the Salem Station.

12 Present at this interview are myself, Mark A.

13 Anderson, Special Agent with the Office of 14 Investigations, U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 15 Region I, King of Prussia, Pennsylvania and Mark 16 Ferdas, Resident Inspector at the Hope Creek 17 Station. Also present is Charles Hassler, 18 H-A-S-S-L-E-R, Business Agent with IBEW Local 94 who 19 is here with today. I talked wit1 20 bout this prior to going on the record. He is 21 happy to have him present and with him at the 22 interview today. This interview is being recorded.

23 A transcript will be produced of the interview. The 24 subject matter of the interview concerns the safety 25 conscious work environment at the Salem and Hope Creek NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS

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1 Stations and related issues to that. At this time, 2 Kwould you raise your right hand so I can

/

3 swear you in?

4 WHEREUPON, 5

6 was called as a witness and, having been first duly 7 sworn, was examined and testified as follows:

8 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Could you state 9 your full name for the record please?

10 a*ý-'

11 12 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: We did speak 13 before going on the record about having Mr. Hassler 14 here with you today. You are comfortable viith that 15 and want that.

16 Absolutely, yes.

17 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Could you state 18 your address please?

19 20 21 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Your current 22 position here.

23 24 41 25 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Your home NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 132.*-PO Dfll!I AV;. N.W.

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5 1 telephone number.

2 3 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Work number.

4 5 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Date of birth.

7 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Social security 8 number.

9 .

10 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Could you just go 11 through a little bit of your education history and 12 what got you into the nuclear business and got you to 13 your position here?

  • ~ ~~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~~~~~. *=;' .. .:*

14 15 as a believe it or 16 not. My second semester senior year the companies 17 started coming in to interview perspective employees.

18 Commonwealth Edison Company was one of the first ones 19 that came in. They opened up the interviews to all 20 the shops because id have a power plant 21 technology trade there.

22 Being young and -trying to get into the 23 whole thing about getting a job, I took the test. I 24 passed the tests. I passed all their tests and was 25 offered a job as an ..... ....- :

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0 1

2 3

4 5

6 7 '_.-* SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: In this same 8 department.

9 Same department, yes, since 10 11 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Who would be your 12 current supervisor in the position you are in now?

13 :1 14 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: What would his 15 title be?

16 17

  • 1 8 . .. . " * .. . .

19 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: We talked about 20 that we're here to talk about the safety conscious 21 work environment. I guess the first thing I would ask 22 is if you had a concern with regard to a nuclear 23 safety concern here would you know how you would raise 24 that.

25 NEAL R. GROSS . --

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1 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: What would be 2 your preference for how you would raise a concern like 3 that. How would you normally do it if you had one?

4 M I would immediately go to my 5 supervisor or if my supervisor was on-site, the duty 6 supervisor. There's always one there. I would 7 explain the situation to him with as much detail as I 8 could give him so he could have an idea of what was 9 going on.

10 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: What would 11 normally be done with that? What would be standard as 12 far as if there was an issue and how would they handle 13 it?

14 They have a notification 15 process. Notification would be generated to document-16 it electronically and for tracking.

217 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Would that 18 supervisor have you write that notification or does 19 the supervisor normally do it?

20 I could write the 21 notification, yes. It would all depend on the 22 situation, the workload for the day, what I was doing 23 when I identified the concern. But either one of us 24 could write the notification. We usually would concur 25 on the content of the notification and make sure we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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1 didn't miss anything.

2 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Would it be safe

(

3 to assume that you have written some of those over 4 time?

5 1Yes, I have written some but 6 I woul dn't consider myself one of the larger 7 generat Drs of notifications. But I have written a 8 few.

9 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Have you ever 10 been given any negative feedback about generating one 11 or about bringing an issue forth or anything like 12 that?

13  ? NNever.

C' 14 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: No way given the 15 crappier jobs to do because you-have brought something 16 forward.

17 No, sir, we actually have a 18 really open environment in radiation protection. They 19 stress on a frequent basis the fact that if there is 20 anything they welcome it.

21 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: So no comments 22 like "Couldn't you have taken care of this another way 23 so we don't have to do a notification?"

~No.

24 25 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Okay.

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1 N- You know how long I have been 2 here. Most of my department has been here about the 3 same amount of time. We have a really good core group 4 of people that have a lot of years of experience.

5 They know the right way to do things including 6 supervisors. We have had supervisors here for a long 7 time also.

8 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: If a notification 9 like that is generated in the radiation protection 10 area as far as in your work group, is that the type of 11 thing that gets put into the system? Does it often 12 come back to radiation protection to resolve it? Do 13 you understand what I'm asking?

14. It depends on the topic of 15 the notification. It could very well be. It goes off 16 into the review process and they decide whose in-box 17 it gets put back into.

18 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: There is never 19 any negative feedback with regard to that like it's 20 just more-work for us.

21 No, sir. We have been 22 fortunate on the site here not to have had a fatality.

23 Anytime you are in any one place in an industry like 24 this for as long as I have been here to not to have 25 one, that's a pretty lucky string. But we have had a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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iu 1 lot of accidents and stuff like that.

2 They give us training and they look at the

(

3 safety pyramid and see so many first aid cases and so 4 many near misses. It eventually comes up to a point 5 in the pyramid being a fatality. That's one thing 6 that we never want to see.

7 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Right.

8 So with that in mind, it's 9 open and honest and whatever you have to say.

10 MR. FERDAS: What about other departments?

.11 This would be hearsay. Is there anything that you 12 hear about that and being able to identify problems 13 and raise problems?

(. 14 Not that's ever been brought 15 to my attention. I have been a

.. I act as a 16 17 ]Kt::rt.*fl='*Iay~~~, If any. of that was 18 out there, we wouldn't tolerate it. We would handle 19 it as a union official in our procedure as far as that 20 goes. So no, sir.

21 .SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: With regard to 22 the generation of notifications, do they usually get 23 back to you as far as what's been done with it? Do 24 you feel that process works as far as getting the q

25 issue addressed and letting people know what has NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., NW.

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.L .L 1 happened with it? What's your experience with that?

( 2 You can check the status of 3 the notification. When you generate it, the last 4 thing you get is a number. If you maintain that

-5 number in your records, you can check the status of it 6 at any time. We also have a gentleman that you would 7 contact after you generate to let him know that 8 there's one "in the box," (PH).

9 He usually gives updates. If you ever 10 have a question, just call him. That's basically his 11 function for the most part is to deal with that. So 12 it's not a problem to be able to follow the 13 notification through to its completion.

14 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: *How do you feel 15 about the handling 'f it? Is the issue addressed 16 completely? Is the issue resolved?

17 M I would say yes for the most 18 part. Sometimes there's always one or two things that 19 you might not have gone exactly the way you thought it 20 would have, but there's different techniques of doing 21 anything.

22 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: But it's pretty 23 clear it gets addressed to some extent.

24 Absolutely.

25 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Any negative NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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12 1 experience at all in dealing with the corrective 2 action program or with the notification program either 3 that you have had or that you are aware of?

4 I have never had a negative 5 experience.

6 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: What about the 7 employee concerns program? Are you familiar with 8 that?

9 sir.

10 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Would you say 11 that most of the people in your experience in the O 12 would be aware of the employee concerns 13 program?

14 P XWEach and every technician in 15 my department is aware of the employee concerns 16 program, yes.

17 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Have you ever 18 dealt with the employee concerns program.at all?

19 Ys 20 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: How did you feel 21 that that process went for you?

22 It went well. Again, I was 23 dealing as an I wasn't the person actually 24 going out with a concern. I have done numerous 25 concerns over the years. The gentlemen they have had NEAL R. GROSS .

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14 1 assigned to that position have always been most 2 professional.

3 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Again, is that a 4 situation where issues are raised and you feel they 5 are addressed completely even though you might not get 6 the result you are looking for?

7 i That's correct.

8 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: No problems with 9 that program.

10 Sir 11 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Have you ever 12 seen anything negative, again, for somebody going to 13 them and being retaliated against for using that 14 program?

15 * -* , I have not.

16 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: You would be 17 aware of that in youro 18 . Yes, I would. They would 19 call me at home I'm sure if I wasn't here.

20 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: So that's not 21 something you have seen at all.

22 MV No, sir.

23 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Any other 24 information on the employee concerns program that you 25 are aware of as far as concerns about its independence NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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14 1 or anything like that?

3 gentleman that I have dealt with. He's really good at 4 it.

5 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: What about issues 6 with dealing with the NRC? Are people aware that they 7 can go to the NRC if they are dissatisfied with the 8 way something is handled or is not addressed fully

-9 enough?

10 Yes, sir.

11 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Again, you would 12 say that's across the board people are aware of that.

13 MDown to the last man of the 14 technicians in my department would know that's there, 15 that they have that avenue.

16 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Have you ever 17 heard any comments about you better not go to the NRC 18 or just negative statements that it's not a good idea 19 to go to see the NRC?

20 :7No, sir.

21 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: You have never 22 seen anybody adversely affected by having gone to the 23 NRC and spoken to them?

24 ,No, sir. Again, we wouldn't 25 tolerate thatt.

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1 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: What about if 2 somebody speaks to the NRC or speaks to somebody from 3 INPO or something along those lines? Is there ever an 4 attempt to debrief those people when they come back?

5 What did you say? What did they say? Anything along 6 those lines?

7 Not formalized. A lot of us 8 are friends. We have been here forlIUký 9 to it but never a formalized, sit you down, rake you 10 over the coals type thing, never. Maybe some idle 11 conversations.

12 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: But not 13 management trying to get the take on what took place.

14 NO.

15 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: I think I know 16 the answer to this. What about freedom that if you 17 are interacting with the NRC or somebody comes up to 18 you and asks you a question, an NRC person? Have you 19 ever heard there's a fear of being up-front with them 20 or you give them the company line instead of saying 21 what the real answer is that you want to give? Have 22 you ever heard anything along that line at all?

23 No, sir, quite the contrary.

24 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: I'm just trying 25 to think if I have anything else. Do you have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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1 anything?

2 MR. FERDAS: In terms of nuclear safety, 3 do you know of any issues out there that are not being 4 addressed that could affect nuclear safety or 5 industrial safety? Do you have any concerns in either 6 of those areas?

7 No, sir. True to our 8 conversation with the Hope Creek dry well (PH) but 9 that's a little bit out of the scope.

10 MR. FERDAS: Your technicians, when they 11 are in the field, they know the avenues if they 12 observe anything that they think is abnormal, the 13 process that they need to go through.

14 Yes, sir.

15 MR. FERDAS: None of them have ever said 16 to you that they had a nuclear safety concern.

17

  • is a 18 little bit different animal as compared to operations,

.19 but no sir, no one has ever come to me stating they 20 had a nuclear safety. When I hear nuclear safety, you 21 can think of it in different ways. We address 22 radiation protection safety which I guess you could 23 say is nuclear safety.

24 MR. FERDAS: Right.

25 ml Immediately that's our job.

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1 We're the safety guys as far as operation of the plant 2 and stuff like that.

3 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: What about with 4 regard to your first line management and if there's an 5 issue in""- hat they needed to take 6 forward beyond their level? Have you ever heard of 7 the first line management being calibrated or whatever 8 for bringing an issue like that forward?

9 .1 have never heard of that.

10 That's basically their business. We conduct our 11 business and that's their business.

12 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Yes, I just 13 didn't know if they came back and said I took that 14 issue up and got crapped on for it.

15 AWN " No, sir 16 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Any other issues 17 with regard to safety here at Salem or Hope Creek? Do 18 you think it's trending in the right direction where 19 you are seeing an adequate emphasis on safety? Is it 20 trending the right way? Is it trending the wrong way?

21 What is your thought on that?

22 As far as the emphasis on 23 safety, I believe that it's adequate. It's getting 24 more emphatic every day. Since the local has been -

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1 join in hand in hand with it" - but it has happened 2 over the last few years. The emphasis on safety has 3 become greater. We're more aware of it.

4 They do job safety observations. They do 5 job hazard analysis. They are doing a lot of things 6 by the book to try to identify things. Safety is a 7 weird thing to me as far as industrial safety goes.

8 In my opinion, there's a little bit of luck involved 9 when it comes down to it. You could go a long time 10 and have nothing happen and then you could have a week 11 that's a disaster. It could basically just come down 12 to things that were out of people's control. My 13 opinion is it's a little bit of a queer bird so to 14 speak.

15 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: That's why they 16 call them accidents, right?

17 Yes 18 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: You can do 19 everything you try to do right and you can still have 20 accidents. But from your standpoint, you think that 21 the emphasis on that and the concern by management is 22 adequate on the issue of safety.

23 Yes, both management and 24 Local 94.

25 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: What about the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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1 concept of production over safety, that there's a 2 greater emphasis on production and safety gets put to 3 the back burner? Is that something you think exists?

4 What is your thought on that?

5 I don't think believe it to 6 exist as far as my experience goes. We have been at 7 this a long time. We pretty much know how long it 8 takes to perform tasks and how to do it safe. They 9 preach to you make sure you are safe. We have safety 10 meetings in the morning. We have safety meetings with 11 little reaffirmations at lunch. They give us safety 12 messages.

13 MR. FERDAS: Is management, to use the 14 saying, walking the talk, or is it just talk? Is 15 there action? Do you see that they take it seriously, 16 or is it just meetings and talk?

17 - Yes, I believe they are doing 18 their part. From that point, when the meeting ends 19 and it's time to go to work, then it's our part 20 because they are not out there turning wrenches and 21 climbing ladders. At their point, I believe they are 22 doing their part. Now it's just up to us to do our 23 part.

24 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Anything else you 25 would want to add or any other thoughts or concerns?

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1 SNo, sir.

2 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Do you have 3 anything else?

4 MR. FERDAS: No.

7 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: I'll just close 6 here. *have I or any other NRC 7 representative threatened you in any manner or offered 8 you any rewards in return for this information?

9 *z~i*No, sir.

10 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Have you provided 11 this information freely and voluntarily?

12 WW Absolutely, yes, sir.

13 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: Is there anything

( 14 else you want to add to the record at this time?

15 16 SPECIAL AGENT ANDERSON: The time is now 17 1:25 p.m. The interview is concluded.

18 (Whereupon, the above-entitled mal tter 19 concluded at 1:25 p.m.)

20 21 22 23 24

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CERTIFICATE

(

This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of:

Name of Proceeding: Interview of Docket Number: 1-2003-051F Location: Hancock's Bridge, NJ were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings as recorded on tape(s) provided by the NRC.

Anne Marie Smith Official Transcriber Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

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