ML20082B888
| ML20082B888 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vogtle  |
| Issue date: | 04/03/1995 |
| From: | Lamberski J GEORGIA POWER CO., TROUTMANSANDERS (FORMERLY TROUTMAN, SANDERS, LOCKERMA |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#295-16574 93-671-01-OLA-3, 93-671-1-OLA-3, OLA-3, NUDOCS 9504060084 | |
| Download: ML20082B888 (133) | |
Text
{{#Wiki_filter:-- - N g g p ENCE 00CKETED UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USHRC NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION p ,4 g3 05 . I Before the Atomic Safety and Licensina Board 0FFICE Of WRED$- : In the Matter of ) Docket Nos.O N 42
) 50-425'-OLA-3 GEORGIA POWER COMPANY, )
et. al. ) Re: License Amendment
)
(Transfer to '
) Southern Nuclear) ,
) .
(Vogtle Electric Generating ) ASLBP No. 93-671-01-OLA-3' Plant, Units 1 and 2) ) GEORGIA POWER COMPANY'8 LIST OF EXEIBITS RELATED TO TEE DIE 8EL GENERATOR REPORTING ISSUE Exhibit 1 - Transcript of Tape 57 , Exhibit 2 - Transcript of Tape 58 Exhibit 3- (McCoy Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications. , Exhibit 4 - (McCoy Ex. B) March 23,1990 NRC Confirmation of Action (" COA") letter. Exhibit 5- (McCoy Ex. C) Hand-written memorandum dated March 24, 1990- from Mr. Kendall. Exhibit 6- (McCoy Ex. D) Hand-written memorandum dated March 25, 1990 to Mr. Brockman , and Mr. Chaffee from Mr. Kendall. Exhibit 7- (McCoy Ex. E) Mr. Kendall's Caution Note. Exhibit 8- (McCoy Ex. F) IIT #180 List of diesel starts from March 13 through March 23 faxed to IIT. ; Exhibit 9- (McCoy Ex. G) IIT #178 Summary listing of Calcon temperature switches l which had experienced problems faxed to IIT. 9504060084 950403 PDR ADOCK 05000424 \ g PDR \ . f ____ a
- c. 3 N
Exhibit 10 - (McCoy Ex. H) FOIA Request from Mr. Lamberski (August 3, 1992) and NRC's response (FOIA-92-388) (September 9, 1992). Exhibit 11 - (McCoy Ex. I) Mr. McCoy's notes of discussion with NRC Region II re: items to be addressed in April 9, 1990 presentation. Exhibit 12 - (McCoy Ex. J) NRC's May 14, 1990 letter summarizing the April 9, 1990 meeting and including GPC's presentation transparencies. Exhibit 13 - (McCoy Ex. K) GPC's April 9, 1990 letter in response to COA letter. Exhibit 14 - (McCoy Ex. L) GPC's April 19, 1990 Licensee Event Report ("LER") submitted to the NRC. Exhibit 15 - (McCoy Ex. M) GPC's June 29, 1990 Safety Analysis and Engineering Review Group's ("SAER") quality assurance ("QA") audit report. Exhibit 16 - (McCoy Ex. N) GPC's June 29, 1990 revised LER and cover letter. Exhibit 17 - (McCoy Ex. O) NRC's July 20, 1990 Letter, re: Completion of COA Commitments Exhibit 18 - (McCoy Ex. P) GPC's August 30, 1990 clarification letter submitted to NRC. Exhibit 19 - (Hairston Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications Exhibit 20 - (Bockhold Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications Exhibit 21 - (Bockhold Ex. B) Two transparencies used in GPC's 4/9/90 presentation addressing Dgs (testing and quarantine components) Exhibit 22 - (Cash Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications
m Exhibit 23 - (Cash Ex. B) Type-written version of Mr. Cash's list of DG starts Exhibit 24 - (Stringfellow Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications Exhibit 25 - (Stringfellow Ex. B) April 19, 1990 facsimile sent to the Vogtle site of the draft LER with comments collected from corporate office personnel. Exhibit 26 - (Stringfellow Ex. C) Partial transcript of Tape 53 (April 18, 1990). Exhibit 27 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications Exhibit 28 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. B) Minutes of Plant Review Board ("PRB") Meeting 90-59 dated 4/18/90 Exhibit 29 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. C) Minutes of PRB Meeting 90-60 ! dated 4/19/90 Exhibit 30 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. D) Hand-written note from Mr. Mosbaugh on Transcript of Tape 57 re: start data Exhibit 31 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. E) IIT #212 partial transcript of April 10, 1990 conference call Exhibit 32 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. F) Partial transcript of Tape 71 (April 27, 1990) Exhibit 33 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. G) List of diesel starts attached to Mr. Mosbaugh's April 30, 1990 memorandum to Mr. Bockhold. Exhibit 34 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. H) Partial transcript of Tape 75 (April 30, 1990). Exhibit 35 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. I) Partial transcript of Tape 89 (May 2, 1990).
- Exhibit 36 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. J) Partial transcript of Tape 98 (May 8, 1990).
Exhibit 37 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. K) Minutes of PRB Meeting 90-66 , dated 5/8/90 i r-Exhibit 38 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. L) Draft of Revised LER diesel starts statement. Exhibit 39 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. M) Minutes of PRB Meeting 90-67 dated 5/10/90 Exhibit 40 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. N) Partial transcript of Tape 157 (June 8, 1990). . Exhibit 41 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. O) Partial transcript of Tape 167 - (June 15, 1990). Exhibit 42 - (Aufdenkampe Ex. P) Partial transcript of Tape 159 (June 11, 1990). Exhibit 43 - (Greene Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications Exhibit 44 - (Greene Ex. B) Partial Tape 187 Transcript (June 29, 1990) Exhibit 45 - (Horton Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications Exhibit 46 - (Frederick Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications Exhibit 47 - (Frederick Ex. B) June 8, 1990 PRB Meeting Minutes Exhibit 48 - (Majors Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications 1 Exhibit 49 - (Bockhold Ex. C) IIT #145 partial transcript of March 28, 1990 meeting. Exhibit 50 - (Bockhold Ex. D) IIT #257 partial transcript of April 3, 1990 telephone conference. Exhibit 51 - (Bockhold Ex. E) IIT #203 partial transcript of April 6, 1990 telephone conference. Exhibit 52 - (Bockhold Ex. F) Dew point readings taken on April 6, 1990 (hand-written). Exhibit 53 - (Bockhold Ex. G) April 9, 1990 memorandum from Mr. Duncan to Mr. Coursey. i l Exhibit 54 - (Bockhold Ex. H) Mr. Mosbaugh's April 10, 1990 note to Mr. Bockhold with Mr. Tim Steele's attached memorandum. Exhibit 55 - (Bockhold Ex. I) Partial Tape 41 transcript (April 11, 1990). Exhibit 56 - (Bockhold Ex. J) IIT #233 Transcript of April 11, 1990 telephone conference. Exhibit 57 - (Bockhold Ex. K) 1A diesel dew point history. Exhibit 58 - (Stokes Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications Exhibit 59 - (Ward Ex. A) Summary of Professional Qualifications Exhibit 60 - (Ward Ex. B) Notebook entries made by Mr. Ward in April, 1990. Exhibit 61 - (Ward Ex. C) IIT #206 transcript of April 9, 1990 telephone conference. Exhibit 62 - (Ward Ex. D) Note on Mr. Ward's copy of 1A diesel dew point history re: March 9, 1990 high dew point reading. Exhibit 63 - (Ward Ex. E) Affidavit of Lewis A. Ward in response to questions raised by the Board in its June 9, 1994 Memorandum and Order (July 20, 1994) l l
N '_ . . _ l Respectfully submitted,
. i
'es' E. J51nTr ohn Lamberski TROUTMAN SANDERS Suite 5200 600 Peachtree Street, N.E. ;
Atlanta, Georgia 30308-2216 ; (404)-885-3360 ) i Ernest L. Blake, Jr. , David R. Lewis l SHAW PITTMAN POTTS & TROWBRIDGE 2300 N Street, N.W. Washington, D.C. .20037 . (202) 663-8000 l Dated: April 3, 1995
I i DOCKETED UNITED STATES OF AMERICA USHRC NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 95 APR -4 P1 :42 i In the Matter of *
~
GEORGIA POWER COMPANY,
- Docket Nos. 50-424-OLJGi3 ll:E u - 3 O if d A1
- 50-425-OLA'F3]EL ilk ,,'
' ~
(Vogtle Electric
- Re: 1,icense Amendment Generating Plant, * (Transfer to Southern Units 1 and 2)
- Nuclear)
- ASLBP No. 93-671-01-OLA-3 CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE Thin is to certify that copies of the within and foregoing
" Georgia Power Company's List of Exhibits Related to the Diesel Generator Reporting Issue" and the Prefiled Testimony of C. Kenneth McCoy, W. George Hairston, III, George Bockhold, Jr., Jimmy Paul Cash, N. Jackson Stringfellow, John G. Aufdenkampe, Jr., Thomas W.
Greene, Jr., Michael W. Horton, Georgie R. Frederick, Harry W. Majors, Kenneth Stokes, and Lewis A. Ward, and the Supplemental Testimony of George Bockhold, Jr. were served on all those listed on the attached service list by express mail delivery on this the 3rd day of April, 1995. BT ' J IAmbersk'i OUTMAN SANDERS Suite 5200 600 Peachtree Street, N.E. Atlanta, GA 30308-2216 (404) 885-3360 II a. I e UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD i i In the Matter of ' GEORGIA POWER COMPANY,
- Docket Nos. 50-424-OLA-3 i At A1
- 50-425-OLA-3 (Vogtle Electric
- Re: License Amendment Generating Plant, * (Transfer to Southern Units 1 and 2)
- Nuclear)
- ASLBP No. 93-671-01-OLA-3 l SERVICE LIST '
Administrative Judge Peter B. Bloch, Chairman Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 l Administrative Judge James H. Carpenter Atomic Safety and Licensing j Board ) 933 Green Point Drive , Oyster Point l Sunset Beach, NC 28468 Administrative Judge j Thomas D. Murphy i Atomic Safety and Licensing l Board l U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D.C. 20555 Michael D. Kohn, Esq. Kohn, Kohn & Colapinto, P.C. 517 Florida Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20001
)
office of Commission Appellate j Adjudication i One White Flint North 11555 Rockville Pike Rockville, MD 20852 l
h t 4 i < Stewart D~. Ebneter . .i Regional Administrator USNRC, Region II. 101 Marietta Street, NW ! Suite 2900 !
-Atlanta, Georgia 30303 l t
Office of the Secretary -! U.S. Nuclear Regulatory : Commission ! Washington, D. C. 20555 ATTN: Docketing and I Services Branch
- Mitzi A. Young, Esq. : :
Charles Barth, Esq. ; office of General Counsel i One White Flint North ; Stop 15B18 . U.S. Nuclear Regulatory l Commission ; Washington, D. C. 20555 { Director, . Environmental Protection
- Division [
Department of Natural Resources : 205 Butler Street, S.E. ., Suite 1252 ; Atlanta, Georgia 30334 l l 5 ! i 5 6 i ( I t t l
t GPC EXHIBIT 1 1 **BEGIN TAPE NO. 57, SIDE A** 4-19-90 2 [ Marginalia Third Floor, service Building, 3 Engineering Offices.] ' 4 VOICE: (Inaudible.] 5 Stokes: [ Inaudible) they started the diesel like twice on 6 that diesel where (inaudible). , i 7 VOICE: Yeah. ' 8 Stokes: We still had gas in the machine. 9 Mosbaugh: We had gas in the machine. 10 Blount: I gave them a little lecture on cutting the damned 11 thing off. Don't ever cut it off. 12 Mosbaugh: With hydrogen in the machine, yeah. 13 Blount: They just got lucky. If it had been up like say 14 that flange had held like eight or nine more 15 pounds ... and they cut it off, it would have ! 16 blown across the seal, and taken all the oil with ! 17 it. We did that on Unit 2 with air. It makes a 18 big mess. But when you're up and running at a low l 19 level like that, your lube oil supply will seal it 20 to a certain degree. We never like to trust that. , I 21 That's a secondary option. 22 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 23 Blount: That switch just probably needs a little 24 adjustment. 25 Mosbaugh: Okay. So they were, what, not going to proceed 26 with torsional until they -- ! 27 Kavi: No.
s 0 1 'Mosbaugh: They were. 2 VOICE: They were. 3 Blount: Montgomery just called and said they were probably 4 going to fire up in the next hour. 5 Kavi: Right. They were waiting for the GE people to 6 come back. 7 Mosbaugh: Okay. They were going to run it up to speed and ' 8 then they were going to call the GE people back 9 in. 10 Kavi: (Inaudible.) 11 Mosbaugh: They were going, reenter the torsional test. That i 12 was the plan. 13 Kavi: Right. They were going to take it up to 1800 RPM 14 put excitation on (inaudible), that negative ! 15 sequence occurrence [ inaudible). 16 Mosbaugh: I thought they were going to play around at about 17 100 RPM initially. 18 Blount: Well, we already played around -- 19 Kavi: That test is already done. 20 Mosbaugh: Oh, the 100 RPM stuff is done? 21 Kavi: Yeah. The 100 to 1800, they already checked out l 22 everything. i 1 23 Mosbaugh: Okay. I didn't know if they were going to do that 24 or not. 25 Blount: There's slight vibration in No. 6 and No. 7 26 bearings that's running about six mils. They 27 don't think it's a problem. They think when they
- a. C l
l 1 ; finish loading the. machine that those will settle o 2 out, and that's not a big deal. Montgomery just, 3- called and said that they were just sitting around 4 waiting now to get everybody in so they could go 5 back up, take it up to 18, load it, I mean -- 6 VOICE: Excitation [ inaudible). 7 Mosbaugh: Bring it down,. start stepping up the [ inaudible). 8 VOICE: Okay. 9 Blount: Everything's running good so far. 10 Mosbaugh: Okay. 11 Blount: Except for our seal oil pump. And that'was just 12 the pressure switch. 13 Mosbaugh: Good. 14 Blount: I mean, there's a certain amount of vibration that 15 goes into when you start [ inaudible). 16 Mosbaugh: Oh, yeah. 17 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 18 Okay. Blount: But I did check that pressure this morning. 19 It was running good and the DP across the seals 20 was running at eight pounds like it's supposed to. 4 21 Mosbaugh: Gover's here and Junior's gone -- 22 Blount: Yeah. (Bill) Gover's been in the control room'all 23 morning. He's babysitting. 24 Mosbaugh: Yeah. 25 Burwinkle: Is that the special assignment that we picked up? 26 Mosbaugh: What? 3 T 4 - , , , , , .,
v ., ,
- 1. Burvinkle: To babysit this control room? -
2- Mosbaugh: No. He's the test leader for -- he and Junior'are - i 3 doing the torsional test on twelves. And, yes, 4 that's a special assignment. 5 Burwinkle: I mean, you all said he wasn't allowed to leave t 6. the control room or something. 7 Blount: Well -- ! 8 Mosbaugh: I didn't know about that. 9 Blount: They're k?.1 hot to trot. So, you know, if you can 10-make them happy and keep them all satisfied, e 11 (inaudible). 12 Burwinkle: Maybe it was just ops (inaudible). 13 alount: I'd sit on my head in there if it would make them i 14 happy. 15 Mosbaugh: Hold their hands. ' 16 (walking sounds; door opening / closing sounds) 17 Mosbaugh: Yes. 18 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 19 Mosbaugh: No. No. That's not right. 1 20 Minyard: That's not right. 21 Mosbaugh: can't be right. can't be right. Just ' 22 (inaudible). 23 Minyard: Okay. To do any better than -- 24 Mosbaugh: There's something fairly gross wrong. l 25 Minyard: No. Let me explain. If you use exactly the way 26 Aufdenkampe said to ... you're either on line, off l i
\
4 l i 1
s o 1- line, or sloping down. You'll come out with 86 2 percent which is not our goal. Our goal is 79. 3 So we tried to take them off and come up with it. 4 Now, if you want to, we can take them off at 100 5 percent. 6 Mosbaugh: Make a copy of that for me. Let me -- I'll take 7 care of that. 8 [ Pause.] [ Break in taping.) 9 VOICE: [ Inaudible) option, other than, to, you know, 10 , shoot ourselves in the foot. 11 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 12 Holmes: Now, if it turns out something that we have to tag 13 out the RWST, then we can, you know, on a special 14 case, make sure we patch up the path and put that 15 flow path. I figure that keeps it simpler if we 16 come up with a special case that we can just put 17 together and figure out a way around it, because 18 there are some options that I didn't want to put ' 19 down there that we can exercise. 20 [ Simultaneous inaudible conversation.) 21 VOICE: ....RWST [ Inaudible) If we have work in that 22 area, then [ inaudible). 23 VOICE: Yeah. The little page I wrote up cn the front, 24 there's a typo on there. t [ Inaudible.) It's 25 marked right on the print. I 26 VOICE: We can mark it right on the print. 5
s .. ,. 1 VOICE: But I don't know why I said heat exchangers. 2 [ Simultaneous conversation.). 3 ' VOICE: I-heard there was a little bat ~there, huh? The. 4 painters was up there working, ar d he come' 5 tumbling out.of the duct work. 6 VOICE: Yeah. 7 VOICE: I guess he got pretty high. . 8 VOICE: That must have been the trouble in there, right? 9 Them unauthorized starts? 10 VOICE: Well, we also figured out that that mai be why
.11 your count was low [ inaudible).
12 VOICE: Yeah. I 13 VOICE: Accountability. 14 VOICE: Yeah. 15 VOICE: [ Inaudible) extra one in the plant that wasn't 16 badged in is because he doesn't have his badge. 17 VOICE: Yeah. t 18 VOICE: [ Inaudible) they'll frisk [ inaudible). ; 19 VOICE: You're going to have to take him through HP before 20 you let him out, I would think. 21 VOICE: I believe [ inaudible). ' 22 Mosbaugh: He's already out. 23 VOICE: He's not out of the plant. 24 VOICE: I think there was a snake we found and they wanted 25 to frisk it or whatever before they turned it 26 loose. 6
1 VOICE: -I don't know whether we found him in one of the
'2 outside areas or whether it (inaudible).
3 Mosbaugh: With the snake, we send him down (inaudible) power ' 4 area. . 5 Mosbaugh: Down on the bottom where it's potentially 6 contaminated. 7 VOICE: In fact, though, they still need to check with HP. r 8 VOICE: The bat? ' 9 VOICE: The bat. 10 VOICE: Yeah. He's a cute,little thing. 11 VOICE: On the torsional, do you what's going on. , i 12 VOICE: I don't know where they are at. I know they made r 13 me roll up to 1800 and everything was fine and 14 they were coasting down and getting the ' 15 (inaudible) point. I think we had a problem with 16 the seal oil pump. 17 VOICE: Yeah. They did some adjustments (inaudible). 18 VOICE: You don't want them. 19 VOICE: No. 20 VOICE: And took care of a couple other little problems 21 while they were up that they would have found. 22 VOICE: Hey, Allen. 23 Mosbaugh: I have heard a vicious rumor. 24 Hallman: Which is? I I 25 Mosbaugh: Are you going to license school, or anything like 26 that? 7 { l i I
)
i 1 Hallman: Yeah. ' 2 Mosbaugh: Oh, you are. Oh, okay. 3 Hallman:~ Are you? 4 Mosbaugh: I don't know. 5 [ Laughter.) 6 Mosbaugh: I mean, you're lucky, at least you know. Oh, you 7 have a letter. 8 Hallman: No. That's the thing (inaudible). 9 VOICE: Oh. 10 Hallman: That was from my counterpart at Hatch. 11 Mosbaugh: Oh, Hatch, Don Hallman. l 12 Hallman: Addressed to Hatch. i 13 Mosbaugh: Hatch. 14 Hallman: Yeah. 15 Mosbaugh: Oh, maybe you're going to Hatch. 16 Hallman: That's right. I'll go call him back, and say, what 17 do you know that I don't know. 18 Mosbaugh: But this is more than a vicious rumor. 19 Hallman: I very much hope to be accepted to license school. 20 Mosbaugh: You hope to? 21 Hallman: Yes. f 22 Mosbaugh: Oh. Did somebody ask you or -- " 23 Hallman: I have asked various people, and I think Skip's 24 approved it, and I think George's approved it. I 25 don't know how much corporate gets involved in 26 these things. 8
1 Mosbaugh: I had -- well, I. guess -- yeah. .We just published i 2 the list, and I -- 3 Hallman:- My name wasn't on it. 4 Mosbaug):: Your name wouldn't be on that because that was the list _of general solicitations, not any --' t 6 Hallman: Oh, okay. l i 7 Mosbaugh: -- Not manager in training type slots. Yeah. . 8 Okay. I had heard that. 9 Hallman: Yeah, I want to do that. 10 Mosbaugh: Yeah. I want to do that, too. I've done it ; 11 before. Okay. 12 (Pause.) (Walking sounds; whistling.) 13 Mosbaugh: So how is the torsional test coming? 14 Greene: Well, the only problem is we are at the rated ' 15 speed and we're waiting for the experts to get in. 16 Mosbaugh: Yeah. 17 Greene: We're running all of our surveillances while we're 18 waiting. No. 7 bearing -- l l 19 Mosbaugh: I heard we had some kind of vibration. 20 Greene: No. 7 (inaudible). 21 Mosbaugh: Not. Real high. They'll probably wear in. 22 They'll probably wear in. l 23 ! Greene: Not only that, you'd want to get up [ inaudible). ] 24 Mosbaugh: Well, when we have it loaded. J 1
. :2 5 Greene: There's no big rush on that. That might actually l 26 be a problem with that. (Inaudible) and that's 9
i
.. , m . -
'8' A - 1 it. Waiting on them to get there and in the 2 meantime we're doing all the surveillances. Right 3 now, we're'doing it at 1800. [ 4 Mosbaugh: (While eating food.] I heard there was a problem a
- 5 couple days ago with the seal oil pump being 6 turned off.
7 Greene: Yeah. 8 Mosbaugh: Could you tell me about that? 9 Greene: Yeah. Let me see if I can tell you what happened.- l 10 What they think happened is they turned it off 11 (inaudible). It was part of isolating for this l 12 hydrogen. 13 Mosbaugh: Yeah. 14 Greene: So they turned off the seal oil pump. - 15 Mosbaugh: Yeah. 16 Greene: And for some reason in our procedure the - 17 regulating valves between the lube oil system and 18 the seal oil system is shut, and I think the . 19 procedure is -- I mean, they did what's in the , 20 procedure, and they put the -- they went into b 21 (inaudible) or (inaudible) and they rolled off the 22 jack without any seal oil on them. 23 Mosbaugh: I heard we almost pulled oil across the seals, or 24 perhaps. 25 Greene: Those are babbit seals and you don't know what 26 you've got until you look. They should know by 10
+
7
~R s' o l -1 now (inaudible) problem. I haven't heard anybody 1
2 say they tried to look at (inaudible). 3 Mosbaugh: Uh-huh. 4 Greene: But if there is a problem, (inaudible). ; 5 Mosbaugh: Yeah. I 6 VOICE: Is the PRB meeting still going on? 7 VOICE: Uh -- 8 VOICE: I heard it's 2 to 3. 9 Mosbaugh: Yeah, I think it probably is. In fact, I just got 10 done talking on the budget, and talking to 11 Birmingham, and getting the status, and it'll now 1 12 go to the PRB. 13 VOICE: I'm trying to find a room to have [ inaudible) 14 meeting. Can I have it in here? 15 Greene: Have what kind of meeting? 16 VOICE: A critique team meeting. 17 Greene: As far as I know, there are no scheduled meetings . 18 in here. Let's check with Melvin. 19 (Pause.) (Walking sounds; door closing sounds; 20 muffled background conversations.) 21 (Inaudible conversation.) 22 [ Marginalia: PRB enter.) 23 VOICE: (Inaudible] couple days after (inaudible). 24 VOICE: But now it has been. And I don't know that the 25 word has been put out that the backup ENN is now 26 equivalent to the regular ENN. 11
1 Kitchens: The safest thing to do would be to strike the last 2 - sentence. I'll maintain I can show you documents 3 that (inaudible). 4 VOICE: Yeah. 5 VOICE: [ Inaudible) and all-that. 6 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 7 Mosbaugh: Well, I had seen that before I came in here and 8 when I read that, I read something about -- more 9 into it, like relative to the power supplies. And 10 I think really only yesterday and the day before 11 did we discover the true source for the power 12 supplies and so forth. Uh... 13 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 14 VOICE: They're little signs we added. 15 (Simultaneous discussion.) 16 Kitchens: A little plastic sign that says [ inaudible). 17 VOICE: [ Inaudible), all the ENNs, (inaudible), 18 everything. 19 Mosbaugh: How come there were people researching this all in 20 the last two days? 31 VOICE: Who was doing it? 22 Mosbaugh: Electrical engineering. 23 VOICE: I don't know. They could be ... 24 Mosbaugh: Emergency -- it all stemmed out of that thing for 25 the governor. 26 VOICE: (Inaudible.) Because that's been a week or two. 12 i I i
1 Mosbaugh: Where are they powered from? 2 Swartzwelder: I don't know. 3 VOICE: (Inaudible.] 4 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 5 Kitchens: It's just a little plastic sign like this 6 (inaudible). 7 Aufdenkampe: What did George's memo say on communication 8 (inaudible) I mean, it was just (inaud'ible] 9 emergency directives, basically. 10 VOICE: Communicators. 11 VOICE: Communicators 12 Kitchens: Communicators and emergency directives. It was 13 really (inaudible). It did not say what power 14 supply it comes from. 15 Mosbaugh: That's the memo we're referencing? 16 Kitchens: That was (inaudible). 17 Aufdenkampe: I think that's what Hairston was after, is that ha 18 wants some verbiage that we've discussed with our i 19 people concerning how to communicate next time. i 20 Kitchens: I think it would be safer just to say that l 21 (inaudible) -- I think it's safer to say emergency 22 directors and communicators have been instructed 23 concerning emergency communication systems and { 24 their use, and not say anything about the power 25 supply. That's just a general statement. 26 Mosbaugh: I think we need to be more general. 13 l 1
1 Kitchens: I don't remember anything, any instructions given 2 out to anyone about power supplies. 3 Aufdenkampe: Instructions have been given to emergency 4 directors and communicators concerning , 5 (inaudible). 6 Kitchens: (Inaudible) communicators [ inaudible). . . had to 7 approve it (inaudible) how to handle it at this 8 point now that we have modified the back-up unit. 9 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 10 Kitchens: I'm not sure that we've gone out and trained 11 everybody. (Inaudible) the communicators and the i
.12 emergency directors'.
13 Aufdenkampe: Well, you know, I guess the questions would be -- 14 we're not trying to mislead anybody with this 15 statement, and we have to have justification for 16 why this statement is correct. [ Inaudible.) 17 VOICE: What about this front page? 18 Aufdenkampe: It's okay, as far as I know. (Inaudible.] i 19 l VOICE: I just don't see the [ inaudible). 1 20 VOICE: (Inaudible.] ! 21 Aufdenkampe: It doesn't have to be in there (inaudible.) ! 22 Kitchens: I understand -- we -- our comment was change it i l 23 I from 16 pages to eight pages, and take out all 24 that emergency planning stuff that's not required. 25 (Inaudible.) 26 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 14 I
c .; .. ln
-1 Mosbaugh: Did you correct the diesel starts. I had given !
2 John a comment on the diesel starts. . 3_ _Aufdenkampe: We have, there is a comment in the PRB minutes to , 4 either verify the sentence, reword the sentence,: 5 or delete the sentence. That's what we're : 6* actually doing.
-7
[ sound of Recorder being turned off and on again.] , 8 Kitchens: Now, if we can verify the,.the sentence, I think 9 it would be more appropriate to say since March-1 10 the 20th that there's been, there were 18 11' consecutive starts of the DG. John is going to go 12 and either verify it or take these numbers out, 13 and take out the wording that says there are no ! 14 problems or failures -- basically says that there r 15 are no failures and no problems. [ Inaudible.) I 16 Frederick: I think what caught his attention on the number of 17 starts was when they tallied them up in front of 18 the NRC, there were a different' number. i One came i 19 out 20, and (Inaudible). l 20 Kitchens: Yeah, but we've started them a dozen times ) 21 (inaudible). { 22 l [ Marginalia (Milt Hunt) Chaffee team had 1 23 ! questioned the start data in coa and couldn't 24 figure how we counted starts.) 25 Frederick: I know. And I think that's his real question on 26 the number. 15
l l 4 l 1 VOICE: I believe -- 2 (Inaudible conversation.) 3 Kitchens: In 20 minutes, we could verify the number, Ohather ! 4 it's 20 or not. Go through the. log and look it 5 up. But John picked that as an action item. He's 6 going to verify if that's wrong or not. If it's 7 wrong, we'll take it out. Or if its right 8 (inaudible). The other part was maybe to simplify 9 the sentence not to make it sound so all 1 10 encompassing. George pointed out there was a 11 failure of one of the, of the B diesels right 12 after the maintenance work on it. 13 Mosbaugh: Yeah. That was my comment. 14 Kitchens: I don't think anybody would hold that failure 15 against us since it's the diesel that's just been 16 disassembled. It wasn't operable. So we don't 17 want to make a statement with no failures and no 18 problems. . 19 Mosbaugh: Yeah. I don't think you can make that statement. 20 Kitchens: We'll say "since March 20th, the diesels have been 21 started more than 20 times each, successfully," 22 some words like that that -- whatever number it 23 comes out to be (inaudible). Make sure its not a 24 false statement. Do you have any other comments, 25 Allen? 26 Mosbaugh: I just got a chance to look through it briefly, 16
1 and that's all I saw. 2 ' Kitchens: Okay. (Inaudible) Mr. Hairston's comments and 3 the few comments that we've had on this initial 4 comment. , 5 Kitchens: Lets take a vote 6 VOICE: Do you want to vote Allen, or abstain? 7 Mosbaugh: Uh. I just came in. I probably should abstain. 8 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 9 VOICE: We're going to defer LER 2-90 (inaudible] PRB 10 Monday morning. 11 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 12 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 13 (Pause.) 14 VOICE: Actually, everybody thought I was going to comment 15 on that i 16 VOICE: I (inaudible). l l 17 VOICE: I don't care. I don't what (inaudible)." I don't I l 18 know what MTS is. (Inaudible), but I don't know 19 what it is. 20 VOICE: Management technical support. 21 (Inaudible conversation.) 22 VOICE: Then why go in and put engineering everywhere. 23 (Inaudible conversation.) 24 VOICE: Anybody have any more comments? l 25 VOICE: [ Inaudible.] I never asked for any of these 26 (inaudible). 17
o- .. 1 (Inaudible conversation.) 2 . Kitchens: Okay. Let's all vote 0409. (Inaudible.) All in 3 favor, raise your hands. You got it. 4 (Inaudible conversation.) . 5 VOICE: As I recall, (inaudible). 6 VOICE: Minority opinion by far. 7 VOICE: 254. 8 VOICE: My comment was we added this thing in here about 9 the [ inaudible) was set up to (inaudible). Okay, 10 but you're responsible for all the work that's on 11 the shift. Really, the work foreman or supervisor 12 (inaudible) set up some work on (inaudible). 13 We're talking about just setting up a certain 14 housekeeping thing (inaudible). 15 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 16 VOICE: Yeah. 17 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 18 Handfinger: (Inaudible) a real problem. We have 254 and 19 20-14-17. We should not have two procedures; we 20 should have a procedure for control. The 20-427 21 that we talked about this morning? Maintenance 22 had nothing to do with setting up the zone 23 cleanliness. Maintenance had nothing to do with j 24 it. Wasn't even there. , l 25 Kitchens: That's fine. The people that are responsible for ! 26 doing that (inaudible). 18 l l
?
1 Handfinger: That's what I'm saying. That ought to be -- 2 Kitchens: It depends on what you work on. Suppose you're 3 going to go work on the -- 4 VOICE:. You're right. It should be a plant -- 5 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 6 Handfinger: Should be a plant administrative procedure that we 7 all follow, and it should be -- the person that's 8 responsible for performing the work should be the 9 person that sets up the [ inaudible). 10 Kitchens: But what if (inaudible) administrative procedure? 11 Handfinger: Yeah. But I'm saying we need to get rid of this l 12 one -- l 13 Kitchens: That's your's, isn't it? I 14 Handfinger: -- and incorporate it in -- no. I'm saying we l 15 need to get rid of 20 -- 20-427C is what do it by, ; 16 what you do 254B by. You ought to have a 17 procedure on how we're going to go do this, 18 incorporate 20-427C 16to 254C. So it's just what 19 you just said -- have the person responsible for 20 performing the work implement the control. 21 Kitchens: Okay. You agree with my comment. But you have an 22 additional comment that we need to find a 23 [ inaudible) procedure that gives them guidance on 24 how to do that. 25 Handfinger: Right. 26 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 19
1 .- :. l l l i 1 VOICE: 20-427(b) is -- l 2 Kitchens: We took it out this one and put it in l
,3 (inaudible) a long time ago?
4 (Marginalia cleanliness control procedure i 5 discussion.] . 6 VOICE: Yeah. 7 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 8 Kitchens: Yeah, but there are other work groups that need to. 9 do this. He had a good example for [ inaudible] ! 10 this, or -- 11 Mosbaugh: Do we do that not under a work order? 12 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 13 Mosbaugh: We don't do that under a work order. J 14 Kitchens: We do his part under a work order. 15 Mosbaugh: Yeah, I know, but other -- 16 Kitchens: But not all the work that we would want to do. 17 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 18 VOICE: (Inaudible) establishment of (inaudible). 19 VOICE: For a refueling job. 20 Mosbaugh: I'm just thinking, you know -- 21 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 22 Mosbaugh: If you were going to have requirements. We'd do it 23 per a w k order. 24 Handfinger: If we're going to do tank work, we have a specific 25 cleanliness requirement when we're going into a 26 tank. 20
- o. . .
1 VOICE: Or generator. 2 Handfinger: Yeah, something like that. We would have a 3 specific order. For typical work, we don't have 4 the criterion. 5 Kitchens: You've got very little left in there. It does 6 have materials accountability. I think I 7 understand what you're saying. I believe that it i 8 used to be in this procedure? 9 VOICE: We took it out. 10 Kitchens: We took it out of Admin procedures and put the 11 details in there. 12 Mosbaugh: You know, there are two ways you can handle that. 13 You could pull it back out and put it in the Admin 14 procedure or you could require work orders when 15 you have cleanliness control. 16 Lackey: It would be much easier if we had one procedure 17 that laid it all out. , 18 Kitchens: There's no reason that operations or Chemistry 19 couldn't go to Procedure 20 and then 427(c) and 20 find out what (inaudible). 21 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 22 Kitchens: I think that 90 percent of the time we do it, it's 23 going to be by work orders, and Harvey's going to 24 do it, maybe more, because other times that we do 25 it, they put it in this procedure that the person 26 responsible has to do it. This one Harvey, it 21 1 l
D' 's 1 does give'you -- it does reference that 20,000 in 2' 427(c). So as long as we put it in here for now, 3 everybody else is going to have to do whatever you' ' 4 require. 5 Handfinger: That's just fine.' 6 VOICE: If you want to take some of the steps out of that- 1 7 procedure and put it in here, that would be fine. 8 Handfinger: The problem I have is I'm going to try to answer a 9 QA AFR that has nothing to do with the work ,, 10 activity, and I'm going to make some commitments, 11 and I'm not the one that's implementing the order. 12 Kitchens: Okay. For that particular one, what we need you 13 to do and I'm going to ask him to do is we're 14 going to get our buddies from CSO or somebody in 15 here, and we're going to establish the controls 16 for the refueling outage,.the refueling floor, and 17 the fuel handling building. Whether they use that 18 procedure or this procedure, I don't care what 19 they do. I think the cause of that we're getting 20 to, we didn't have that clearly identified as to 21 who had to do that thing, and so when it came up 22 and they started having problems, the people that 23 tried to take care of it, didn't take care of it. 24 I don't think we just ignored it, but we didn't do i 25 a very good job. 26 Handfinger: I think we -- 22 l I
1 0> O' I 4 i 1 Kitchens: This time, we'll set up_some person to control 2 -access to and accountability for materials, people 3 and cleanliness for the containment and for the ] 4 refueling' areas. But most of'the time, other than 5 refueling example, and I'm sure there are going to l
'6 be a few other times, most of the time when we do 7 this, I think.it's going to be you guys 8 (inaudible).
9 Handfinger: Ninety percent. - 10 Kitchens: I think all they're really trying to do in this 11 procedure is make it be responsive. (Inaudible.) 12 Tynan: That still doesn't change -- 13 VOICE: We might have [ inaudible). , 14 Tynan: We're still going to keep (inaudible), so that's 15 fine. (Inaudible) person responsible for the work 16 activity. (Inaudible.] 17 Kitchens: I understand that. I agree with the changes. 18 (Inaudible) accountability in material control, 19 you don't necessarily have to (inaudible). 20 Tynan: I agree, but (inaudible). 21 (Inaudible conversation.) 22 Tynan: So what you're looking for right now is change , 23 this superintendent to the individual responsible 24 for the work activity. 25 Kitchens: Right. Or I would say the foreman or supervisor 26 responsible for the work activity is responsible 23
7 j Il for. ensuring controls are. I.think we need to 2 definitely take.those out and put them in here.
'3- And there's already a section to do that. We 4 could probably do it if we want.to. And a couple 5 of years from now, we'll take it out again.
6 .[ Inaudible conversation.) 7 Kitchens:' Any other comments on this? All in. favor, raise 8 your hand. 9 VOICE: Deficiency Card 1-90-195. 10 Swartzwelder: Alright. The only comment I had was I couldn't ; i 11 remember what our position was on Wednesday -- ' 12 things like improper fuses in [ inaudible) panel 13 will require detailed [ inaudible) review to l l 14 discover potential effects. Did we table those, l 15 or will we take them now, we'll wait until they l 16 come back? 17 Aufdenkampe: In general, [ inaudible) believe it's reportable, 18 we say it's not reportable based on the 19 information available [ inaudible). If new 20 information comes available [ inaudible). 21 Sometimes, we don't always do it that way because
]
22 sometimes there is information that would lead to 23 believe that it is reportable, and those are the 24 cases that are different. 25 Swartzwelder: No, I do not have a comment, I think its okay, i 26 Kitchens: I'll take a vote on this thing. All in favor, 1 24 l l
l 1~ raise your hands. Did you get a chance to read 2 any of these over? 3 VOICE: Nope.
-4 Tynan: (Inaudible) that I have another ISI letter. There 5 are three now --
6 VOICE: I don't think (inaudible). 7 Kitchens: Tell you what, why don't, tomorrow, why don't we 8 do all those, the annual report, and the LER that 9 we tabled, and do those at 8:30 in the morning. 10 Tynan: There were several letters (inaudible). 11 Aufdenkampe: What's happening on the these is the ISI people 12 (inaudible) from corporate have sent us down a 13 report, then later on they sent us down a letter. 14 Kitchens: And nov we're getting a cover letter. 15 Aufdenkampe: I will fix that problem. 16 VOICE: When you see it, you will see it all together. 17 (Inaudible.) 18 (Inaudible simultaneous conversation with sounds 19 of paper shuffling.) 20 Kitchens: (Inaudible) discussion item didn't seem to be 21 enough to vote on it. (Inaudible.) 22 VOICE: Well, I think we ought to talk about one -- 23 VOICE: One came back. 24 VOICE: -- (inaudible) came back because George had a . 25 comment on the one that went to him for signature 26 (inaudible) a couple weeks ago, I guess. He 25
1 1 approved it. He changed all the titles and 2 everything, but George asked for the -- he asked 3 for the changes on those two pages.
- 4 Tynan: Basically change operation [ inaudible) 5 superintendent to be superintendent, but the 6
section on responsibility in the back [ inaudible). 7 The problem -- and I sent it back to George this 8 morning -- I haven't heard from him -- is the FSAR 9 is exactly what it means. So in order to change 10 that second page, we have to -- 11 Kitchens: I looked at that before. It used to be more this 12 way, and then we changed it and we changed the 13 FSAR to be the other way. I think that George's 14 direction in asking us to change it back is okay, 15 but I remember when it was -- 16 [ Inaudible conversation.) 17 Kitchens: And give George the information. 18 [ Inaudible conversation.) 19 Kitchens: [ Inaudible) George found that out, he was l 20 (inaudible). We are directed to [ inaudible). ) 21 VOICE: [ Inaudible.] l 22 Kitchens: After you hear back from George, let us know. ! t 23 What are you going to do, we'll approve this under 24 the -- this is in addition to the previous one we 25 approved, and the tech evaluation that went with 26 it, or do you want to do another [ inaudible)? ; 26 I
- o: m ;
'l Tynan: (Inaudible) to' approve it (inaudible) technical ,
i 2 evaluation, that's correct. But I cannot actually 3 (inaudible) approve it without seeing it. The ! i 4 only thing I can (inaudible) approve is>that first ; 5 page change. 6 (Inaudible simultaneous conversation.) ;
?.ufdenkampe: Why don't we just table it? !
8 VOICE: (Inaudible.) j 9 Kitchens: In the meantime, is George holding up signing all 10 the other changes that you had to it? 11 [ Marginalia Discussion of computer software l 12 control procedure to end of tape (side A, p. 35).] 13 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 14 Kitchens: Okay. Let's talk about the flow chart now. l 15 Tynan: What I did for [ inaudible) synopsis of (inaudible) 16 required in this Procedure 410. (Inaudible) over 17 the~last seven months more controls into our 1 18 software program, not hardware, software, 19 [ inaudible) quality assurance [ inaudible). What 20 this procedure does is pretty much mimics what 21 Plant Farley has [ inaudible).. .This procedure does 22 have (inaudible), but it provides you with generic 23 procedures in specific categories, A, B, or C, and 24 these categories have specific requirements 25 (inaudible) combination of the documentation, 26 approval, what level of approval, (inaudible). The i 27 1 l l l
)'
s 1 second page is kind of an example where 2 (inaudible)~ software (inaudible) different 3 categories'(inaudible). .The procedure-is not 4 specific; it.doesn't say (inaudible) this. 5 category, or (inaudible). It doesn't say that, 6 you have to make that call. ! 7 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 8 Tynan: And the last two pages are the comments that we 9 received from the department. Some, we haven't j 10 received, but most of them are [ inaudible). , 11 Mosbaugh: The procedures vary. The old procedure 12 (inaudible) was very specific and very hard to , 13 follow, okay? The new procedure is really not very 14 specific, and I think it's easier to' follow. But j
.i 15 it's very broad. Any software it picks up...
16 Swartzwelder: I probably would, on my review, (inaudible). I I 17 think that the 410 that exists now is extremely 18 easy for me to follow, and the new one would be i 19 extremely difficult for me to follow. And I feel
~
20 that just like design change requests, computer-21 software change requests should be handled in the 22 exact same type manner, and I shouldn't have to 23 get involved in the level of detail that 24 [ inaudible). 25 Aufdenkampe: Well, the flow in here is exactly the same as 26 (inaudible). (Movement sounds.) The only ! 28 l 1
- ~ . ~
-j i difference is the. departments are responsible for j l
2 their own software [ inaudible). That's the j i 3 difference. jl
'4 (Inaudible conversation.) l 5 VOICE: .Why do I want to do that? I 6 Swartzwelder: You have one in your office.
7 (Inaudible conversation.) 8 VOICE: The question is why do I want to do that. 9 Swartzwalder: No reason I know of. 10 Aufdenkampe: Well, no,.that's not true, Jim, I'll take that 11 back. What you have to do -- (inaudible). You 12 don't really have to do that. What-you have to be i 13 able to show is it's not a Category A or B f i 14 software. The only real way to do that that the 15 procedure recognizes is to do the (inaudible). So f 16 if you're comfortable that what you've got on your f 17 PC is not an A or a B, and nobody would ever 18 question it, then you're fine. But if it's a 19 Category A or B software, then you've got '! 20 (inaudible) it falls under 410. An example, and 21 there are several examples, Category A is to 22 performance safety functions. Category B is used ; 23 to verify regulatory compliance. If you use aus . 24 algorithm in the computer to verify compliance i 25 with tech spec, you have to do a software, you ! 26 have to control the software. 3 i 29
-G f
1 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 2 Aufdenkampe: It doesn't, it doesn't, and that was part of QAs 3 finding. If the surveillance tracking program 4 make sure that you comply with the 1.25 and the 5 3.25 limits and you do all your surveillances on 6 time, then you've got to control the software. 7 VOICE: What I'm saying is, if (inaudible) makes those 8 comments in there, why do I got to go fill out a 9 sheet to do that? 10 VOICE: (Inaudible.) One of 14 sheets you've got to fill 11 out. 12 Aufdenkampe: If it's a C, then if it's a C you have one sheet-13 to fill out, period. 14 Kitchens: You'll have to document that it wasn't an A or B. 15 Aufdenkampe: We can even make it so if you don't want to fill 16 out, you don't have to fill it out. But it really 17 kind of says that, I think. We can make that 18 clearer. But the bottom line is, you know, if 19 Mike doesn't fill one out on surveillance tracking 20 program, okay, then he's wrong. 21 VOICE: Right. You're right. 22 (Simultaneous conversation.) 23 VOICE: That's true. 24 VOICE: I'm not sure who's right, but you're wrong. 25 Aufdenkampe: Now, Mike would argue -- Mike would argue that the 26 surveillance tracking computer program system is a 30
1 C. (Inaudible) used to ensure compliance with 2 regulatory requirements. 3 (Inaudible conversation.] 4 Mosbaugh: What I ... what I hear people asking for is 5 basically the procedure would require an 6 evaluation of the software, and then require 7 sheets to be filled out if it was A or B. 8 Kitchens: A would be, like Jim said, the design change 9 procedure, and B would be like (inaudible). 10 Curtis would probably worry about it, somebody 11 like that. (Inaudible.)" C is -- 12 VOICE: Nobody worries about it. 13 VOICE: Yes. C is other. 14 Aufdenkampo: Well, it's something different. The pr.. adure, if 15 it's an A, there are a lot of document 16 requirements. 17 Kitchens: And you (inaudible) change the ERF computer 18 program or [ inaudible). 19 VOICE: There are a lot of document requirements. 20 VOICE: I had another comment on (inaudible). l 21 Aufdenkampe: The proteus computer has both A and B software. 22 (Inaudible conversation.) I l 23 VOICE: When we did Unit 1 pre-ops, it was a problem. 24 Software error. l 25 VOICE: It was a software error. 26 Aufdenkampe: But I told him, I told him (inaudible). i 31 1 1
t
'1'
.(Inaudible conversation.)
2 Mosbaugh: The PC program.
'3' VOICE: The PC program.
4 VOICE:- It's in there, isn't it? 5 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 6 VOICE: Yeah, but you can't turn in a PC program and say
~
7- that you (inaudible) because you got to send in ; , 8 the data, and they evaluate the data, not the 9 program. 10 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 11 Kitchens: [ Inaudible) programs at NRC and they've got
- 12 (inaudible). generic approval (inaudible) also. If
- 13 we made up our own and did it, it would be 14 different.
15 VOICE: That's a good point of the program. (Inaudible.] 16 VOICE: (Inaudible.) , 17 Aufdenkampe~: You don't have to validate -- you don't have to 18 validate DBase-2 or DBase or Lotus or anything , 19 like that. The procedure doesn't require you to 4 20 verify that, but if you write a macro for Lotus, 21 and you do an 10, you have to verify that the IO 22 works. 23 VOICE: We still have the Marathon program (inaudible). - 24 VOICE: (Inaudible.) You have to verify the application. ' 25 Aufdenkampe: The argument would be -- the argument would be 26 (inaudible) temp mods data base. The control room 32
1 calls and says are any temp mods are restraining 2- one from going to mode 5, the engineers go verify 3 that, and they verify that by going and polling 4 the database and seeing what temp mods are open, 5 okay. 6 Kitchens: (Inaudible) go look at the [ inaudible), but 7 otherwise, they (inaudible). + 8 VOICE: [ Inaudible) all John. That's a hard one. 9 [ Inaudible conversation.) 10 VOICE: It is. 11 Kitchens: You can make an argument that's a B, or you can 12 make an argument that that's a C. 13 Aufdenkampe: You know, I was probably figure that would be a C. 14 (Simultaneous inaudible discussion.) 15 Aufdenkampe: It would fall under the C if you went through the 16 checklist probably. I can't guarantee that 17 because it's not really the source document. , 18 Mosbaugh: It's a backup. 19 VOICE: What if you don't use a source document? 20 Aufdenkampe: If you don't -- the question will be, do you have 21 a source document, okay? Let's take your 22 surveillance tracking computer. Do you manually 23 track when the surveillances are done to make sure i 24 that they're done on time, or does the computer l 25 calculate to the next (inaudible). l 26 VOICE: (Inaudible.) ) I l 33 ) i l l l
y l I l 1 Aufdenkampe: I'm not asking if you have paperwork records. l 2 There's a difference. 3 (Inaudible conversation.] 4 Mosbaugh: No, it's really different on the temp mod. You l 5 should have an LCO -- l l 6 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 7 Mosbaugh: The temp mod -- 8 Swartzwelder: (Inaudible) for every temp mod, no. 9 Mosbaugh: You should. 10 Swartzwelder: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. l l 11 VOICE: First of all, (inaudible). 12 Mosbaugh: If the temp mod has affected a tech spec, I would 13 think you would be -- l l 14 VOICE: It requires a tech spec change. (Inaudible.] i 15 VOICE: I would think you would -- 1 16 Swartzwelder* [ Inaudible.) It would be an unreviewed safety 17 question. I 18 Mosbaugh: You didn't understand. ! 19 VOICE: (Inaudible.) i 20 VOICE: If a temp mod in-oped something, then you ought to 21 have an LCO on it. 22 Swartzwalder: Absolutely. 23 Mosbaugh: That's what I'm saying. 24 Swartzwelder: Absolutely. 25 VOICE: But if it doesn't take away anything, I don't have 26 an LCO. (Inaudible.] 34 i
- e 1 Mosbaugh: I mean, that's why we do that review that you're 2_ talking about. That's where we started out.
3 Okay? But that's a backup check because the 4 primary check should be the LCOs themselves. 5 That's all I'm saying. 6 (Inaudible conversation.) 7 VOICE: (Inaudible) checking to see if there's anything 8 else (inaudible). 9 VOICE: Right. 10 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 11 Mosbaugh: It's a backup to the LCOS. That's the way I'd use 12 it. 13 Aufdenkampe: You know, I know that the algorithms that we use 14 to (inaudible) calculate (inaudible) they verify t 15 our compliance to the tech spec, I feel that 16 (inaudible) that the frequency [ inaudible) it goes 17 in and takes the date input (inaudible). That 18 part is C. Now, the report-generating portion of 19 the software? [ Inaudible.) In general, I would 20 say that is a B. 21 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 22 Aufdenkampe: That may end up being a D. It's not easy. I'm not 23 arguing that it's easy. 24 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 25 VOICE: Well -- 26 Kitchens: We get people all the time that make decisions 35
a i 1 :~ .(inaudible) control room and maintenance job 2 (inaudible)-necessary. This says that four_ amp
~3 fuse, and they go and get that.
4 Aufdenkampe: But they don't go back to the design document in ; 4 5 the power run. 6 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 7 VOICE: How about commitment tracking? ' 8 (Inaudible conversation.) l 9 VOICE: There's not one person'that has all the input ! 10 (inaudible). 11 VOICE: It obviously verifies (inaudible). 12 (Inaudible conversation.) i 13 Aufdenkampe: You know, if we pull a safety clamp on the NPMIS ' 14 screen for 61J or 212, something like that, that's 15 where we get that information? - 16 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 17 VOICE: I know we verify commitments, in an outage, we get 18 a printout from the computer with all our 19 commitments for that outage. j 20 Aufdenkampe: That's George's concern. That's George's concern. 21 And there's some legitimacy to that concern 22 (inaudible) but it is a major burden. 23 VOICE: (Inaudible.) , 24 VOICE: The NRC's been on our back before. 25 (Simultaneous discussion.) 26 Mosbaugh: Have we gone and looked to see what the sister ; 36
1 plant is doing? 2 VOICE: Well, we need to (inaudible) QA. 3 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 4 VOICE: They like it. - 5 VOICE: They're more difficult. (Inaudible.) 6 Mosbaugh: I mean, are they actually doing it? 7 VOICE: Yes, they're actually doing it. 8 Mosbaugh: They're actually doing it. And it's not a burden 9 for them, then. 10 VOICE: It is a burden. (Inaudible.) 11 (Inaudible conversation.) 12 VOICE: I doubt if they [ inaudible). 13 Mosbaugh: Are they really doing it? 14 VOICE: Yeah, they are. 15 Aufdenkampe: That's what it originally said, and I said, "No, 16 we don't want to make [ inaudible) the commitment." 17 Mosbaugh: I mean really, are they really doing that? I 18 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 19 Mosbaugh: I find it hard to believe they're really doing it. 20 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 21 VOICE: I don't think they're doing it (inaudible). 22 Kitchens: (Inaudible) comment for not having (inaudible). 23 In other words, they just don't fall in a category j l 24 that has to be reviewed, either like a design l 25 change because it operates equipment, or like the 26 other (inaudible). See, you do that re view, and A 37
t 1- then you do (inaudible).
]
l 2 VOICE:- (Inaudible.) j 3 Kitchens: We've got to get some more details (inaudible). 4 4 Aufdenkampe: We do that if we -- we do that skip (inaudible)- )
. .i 5 single sheet that you do that says this'is an A, i
6 'B, or C, and it asks questions,'and if the answer 7 comes up with a B, the department manager signs 8 it, and then it goes to vault, okay? Now,'we 9 could have the -- we can do the review and say 10 it's a C and throw it away, but (inaudible) will.
-11 come back and --
12 VOICE: (Inaudible.) , 13 (Simultaneous discussion.) ; 14 Kitchens: When we're talking about the mechanics of the 15 procedure, you can have a list of exactly what , 16' computers or what categories, and then it will be-17 easy (inaudible) ask that question. (Inaudible.) 18 (Inaudible conversation.) i 19 VOICE: Where the report comes from. ' 20 Kitchens: I don't think that can resolve (inaudible). 21 VOICE: Yes. Well, we used.to do it (intaudible). That's 22' where George gets his report. 23 Kitchens: We want to be able to say, no, that's really just , 24 for payroll. When George looks at, he's going to 25 (inaudible). 26 (Laughter.) ; 38
l 1 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 2 Kitchens: Yes, they did. It is an indication that -- l 3- VOICE: (Inaudible.] ' 4 Kitchens: You've got to be careful when you go and look at 5 the payroll, look at what hours, because sometimes 6 (inaudible) funny things with the sheet that they ; 7 really wasn't there all the time, and [ inaudible). l 8 (Inaudible conversation.) 9 Kitchens: I don't know of any of the drawings around here 10 anymore, but I believe we're going to be forced to 11 do something more like this, even if it weren't 12 for the QA. [ Inaudible.) It would probably be 13 better if we come out and draft the procedure 14 ourselves and what we want and what we can live 15 with. 16 VOICE: (Inaudible] pressurizing level (inaudible) leak l 17 rate calculations, I guess (inaudible) pressurizer 18 temperature [ inaudible)? ; 19 VOICE: He gave us a violation once already on computer 20 software control. i 1 21 (Inaudible conversation.) I l 22 VOICE: We almost -- we thought we headed that one off, 23 but (inaudible). I just really anticipate that 24 the next guy that comes down here and looks at our 25 computer software control unless we change our 26 program. 39 , i l l 4
1 VOICE: You know, I would maintain we already have some 2 computer control over proteus and ERF. We have a 3 procedure we call -- 4 (simultaneous discussion.) 5 Kitchens: -- no muss, no fuss [ inaudible). Now, whether 6 that's adequate or not, it's a little different 7 from this. From what I can. see, that's a 8 Category A. 9 10 ***END TAPE NO. 57, SIDE A*** 11 i 40
1 BEGIN TAPE NO. 57, SIDE B*** 2 (Marginalia In JGA's office; Telecon with JGA &
'3 stringfellow on LER corrections.)
4 Aufdenkampe: No comments. 5 Stringfellow: Okay. 6 Aufdenkampe:' Page 2. 7 Stringfellow: Yeah. 8 Aufdenkampe: No comments. 9 Stringfellow: Okay. ' 10 Aufdenkampe: Page 3. "According to the operator" - I'm on the 11 third paragraph. 12 Stringfellow: I'm with you. 13 Aufdenkampe: (Reading) "According to the operator several 14 annunciators were lit." Then it reads "in order 15 to restore emergency power - " ; 16 (Pause.) 17 Stringfellow: Power. 18 Aufdenkampe: "-- the operator reset the annunciators - " i 19 (Pause.) 20 Stringfellow: Okay. 21 Aufdenkampe: "-- without fully evaluating the conditions." 22 (Pause.) 23 Stringfellow: Okay. 24 Aufdenkampe: And then it goes "during this time." Does that 25 take care of Hairston's comment? 26 Stringfellow: Well, only to the extent that - okay, it, yeah, 41
1 that's -- '
- 2 Aufdenkampe
- its don't know what he saw.
3 Stringfellow: Okay, we cannot say what he saw. Right? f 4 Mosbaugh: The first time? 5 Aufdenkampe: What's written here - yeah. 4 6 Mosbaugh: The first trip? 7 Aufdenkampe: What was written here -- ' 8 Mosbaugh: Operations don't know. 9 Aufdenkampe: What was written here is what he said in his 10 report, what he saw, abat I just gave you is -- 11 Stringfellow: What Hairston wants to see in there. 12 Aufdenkampe: A little bit more than what he - we read his mind 13 in the PRB. 14 Stringfellow: I understand. Okay, but, the answer to Hairston's ! 1 15 question is we don't know what they actually 16 looked at on that first trip. ) 17 Aufdenkampe: Well, you don't want to say that. You can't say I 18 we don't know what they looked at. 19 Stringfellow: Well, we don't know - I guess what I'm saying is - 20 Aufdenkampe: What you're saying - 21 Stringfellow: What I want to know la did they look at jacket 22 water temperature and pressure and that sort of 83 thing? 24 Aufder! tpe: Wo. No. He didn't look at much. 25 Stringfellow: Okay. 26 Mosbaugh: The machine -- ' 1 42
1 Aufdenkampe: He was in a hurry to get power back. 2 Mosbaugh: The machine was already tripped. 3 Aufdenkampe: He went in and started pressing buttons. , 4 Stringfellow: His objective was to get the diesel started so 5 they probably thought, well, if I can clear these 6 annunciators and reset the thing, then I can try 7 to start it again. Right? 8 Aufdenkampe: We can speculate that that's what he thought. As 9 Allen pointed out, the diesel was already tripped 10 so there wasn't much to see on the gauges and 11 stuff. 12 Stringfellow: That's a point. Yeah. Okay. But that's a -- in 13 other words, that's -- in response to Hairston's 14 concern, that's all we think we can say. 15 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. 16 Stringfellow: All right. 17 Aufdenkampe: Going to page, uh, the next page. 18 Stringfellow: Yes. 19 Aufdenkampe: Site area emergency was declared at 8:40. Agencies 20 of the -- Government agencies notiried of the 21 emergency at 8:48 central standard time. 22 Stringfellow: Uh, huh. 23 Aufdenkampe: Period. 24 Stringfellow: Okay. 25 Aufdenkampe: And delete the next ... to the end of the line. 26 (Pause.] 43
1 [ Marginalia This deletes 8:57 time.] 2 Stringfellow: Okay. 3 Aufd enkampe: There. Now it doesn't ask the question why it 4 took us 17 minutes. 5 (Laughter of Aufdenkampe and Stringfellow. ) 6 Aufdenkampe: How's that? 7 Stringfellow: Well, all right. We can try that. In otner 8 words, we can't say that part of that 17 minutes 9- was due to the problem with the ENN. 10 Aufdenkampe: Not specifically. 11 Stringfellow: Not specifically. Okay. Well I think that may be 12 okay because Hairston said, you know, that if we 13 can't say that, then he wanted to reword it to not 14 take it to, to not have the time in there. Okay? ; 15 Aufdenkampe: Well that takes care of that - it takes the time I 16 out. ; i 17 Stringfellow: All right. 18 Aufdenkampe: The next one was that sentence you gave me for I l 19 l direct cause. ' 20 Stringfellow: Yeah. 21 Aufdenkampe: That went through fine (meaning through the PRB] 22 and his comments about an off-site source went 23 through fine. The next page, root cause. 24 Stringfellow: Uh, huh. 25 Aufdenkampe: No comment. The next page on the 20 starts? 26 Stringfellow: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. l I 44 l l
1 Aufdenkampe: I'm struggling with that one. 2 -Stringfellow: You struggle with that one?
-3 Aufdenkampe: I'm struggling with that one. I'm trying to verify 4 that still.
5 Stringfellow: Oh, okay. All right. 6 Aufdenkampe: Okay. We think that's basically a material false t 7 statement. 8 Stringfellow: Really? 9 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. Well, we know for a fact that the B diesel 10 tripped at least once after March 20th. 11 Mosbaugh: Actually, it tripped twice after March 20, or it 12 had at least two separate problems. 13 Stringfellow: Well, do we need to take this more 20 times each 14 out then? 15 Aufdenkampe: That's what we're thinking but I've got Tom Webb l 16 reviewing the reactor operator's log and counting. ' 17 Stringfellow: Okay. 18 Aufdenkampe: I don't know where he's at. When is Hairston due I 19 back in the office?
- 20 Stringfellow: He's supposed to be there now.
21 Aufdenkampe: Oh, so you've got to hurry and get this up there, 22 huh? j 23- Stringfellow: Well, yeah. Yeah. Well, I -- see, I had given i 24 him -- I've given Shipman, you know, the -- a 25 version -- typed version of what you guys have 26 been looking at. So now, as soon as we get off 45 l l 1 l
1 the phone I'm going to run back in there and tell-2 him what you told me, you know? 3 Aufdenkampe: Okay. So anyway, I'm still looking for words for 4 you on that one, but that sentence is going to 5 have to change. 6 Stringfellow: Okay. What about, the thing about -- did you get 7 my message on your machine? 8 Aufdenkampe: Yes, I'm getting to that. 9 Stringfellow: Okay. I'm sorry. 10 Aufdenkampe: Next page on corrective actions. That went 11 through fine. 12 Stringfellow: Okay. 13 Aufdenkampe: Okay? Now, last page. 14 Stringfellow: Okay. 15 Aufdenkampe: Item 6. We've reworded that one substantially. 16 Stringfellow: Oh. All right. I 17 Aufdenkampe: Okay, are you ready? i l 18 Stringfellow: Yeah. ' 1 19 Aufdenkampe: (Reading) "A back-up ENN system powered from the l 20 AT&T system, which previously existed and was 21 operational for South Carolina agencies, has been 22 extended to include Georgia local and State 23 agencies." 24 Stringfellow: "Has been extended to include Georgia local and ; 25 State agencies." 26 Aufdenkampe: Yes, then cross out the entire last sentence and l l 46 l l l
a l l I
-1 write this. y 2- Stringfellow: Oh, all right. Okay. )
)
-3 Aufdenkampe: (Reading) " Instructions have been given to I
4 emergency directors and communicators concerning i
.5 use of the emergency communication systems."
6 Stringfellow: " Systems" plural? 7 Aufdenkampe: " Systems" plural. 8- Stringfellow: Okay. 9 Aufdenkampe: That's what they said. 10 Stringfellow: Let me read-it back. " Instructions have been 11 given to emergency directors and communicators 12 concerning use of the emergency communication
'13 systems."
14 Aufdenkampe: Is that right? Is it " systems?" That's on that , 15 George letter. Do you have that? I think I've , 16 got that. Allen has a hard time with using that > 17 but he didn't vote. He abstained due to lack of 18 review time. 19 Mosbaugh: I happen to be an emergency director. 20 Aufdenkampe: Are.you an emergency director? 21 Mosbaugh: Yeah. And I haven't -- don't feel that I've been 22 given very much. 23 Aufdenkampe: But, you have been given something, right? - 24 Mosbaugh: I've been given one sheet that I got with my badge 25- one day. 26 (Pause.] 47
~.
. L.- i I i 1; Aufdenkampe:- I can't find it. I J 2 Stringfellow: Well, we had " systems" in there before, so I guess 3 that's okay. , 4 Aufdenkampe: Okay.
~
5 Stringfellow: Okay. Oh, on number 5, they've identified -- 6 instead of just saying a laboratory test program, 7 they said--- they_ identified Wyle Laboratories. 8 Aufdenkampe: Yes, that's what I've got - "in addition a test 9 program will be conducted at Wyle Laboratories." 10 Stringfellow: Okay, okay, good. You got that. _All right, okay, . 11 you got that. I thought maybe Shipman might have 12 adjusted something after I called you but 13 apparently not. Okay, good. All right, John I 14 think we've -- let's see. We're down to -- now i 15 we're down to the 20, 20 times each question. 1 16 Aufdenkampe: You want me to hold on and see if I can get a hold i 17 of Tom Webb real quick? 18 Stringfellow: Yeah, I'll be glad to. 19 (Aufdenkampe puts Stringfellow on hold and calls 20 Odom.) 21 VOICE: This one's going to be a killer. 22 (Pause.] [ Phone rings.) i 23 Odom: Hey John. l 24 Aufdenkampe: Hey, do you know how Tom Webb's doing? 25 odom: He was heading over to the control room, because 26 he didn't have two or three days here of the logs. 48 1 1 I
c . 1 But he was headed over to the control room to fill 2 it in. 3 Aufdenkampe: Okay. Is he going to call back -- well. Who's ha 4 going to call when he finds out? 5 Odom: He's just going to come back, I think. Is it 6 going in the LER? 7 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. 8 Odom: Oh. You know this is not going to be " valid" 9 information now. It is going to be control room, 10 which is -- and then you have to interpret whether 11 it's a valid start or you know, a valid attempt or 12 not. 13 Aufdenkampe: All -- we aren't looking for valid failures or 14 invalid failures. All we're looking for is starts 15 and trips. That's what he's looking at, right? 16 Odom: I told him valid failures -- valid starts and 17 valid -- yes, starts and failures is what I told 18 him. 19 Mosbaugh: The wording in the LER that came from Corporate 20 does not use the word valid. j 21 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. 22 Odom: But he can't do that anyway. The logs don't say ; 23 whether its valid or not. 24 Aufdenkampe: Right. I understand. And that's because Ops does 25 not make that determination. 26 Odom: Yeah. Right. 49 '
l l l 1 Aufdenkampe: Okay. 2 odom: I'll find out where he's at. 3 Aufdenkampe: Okay, you better. Jack's on the other line 4 waiting. l l 5 odom: All right. l 6 Aufdenkampe: Okay. Thanks. 7 (Aufdenkampe ends phone call with Odom and returns ' 8 to Stringfellow.) 9 Aufdenkampe: You there still? 10 Stringfellow: I'm here. 11 Aufdenkampe: We don't know yet. 12 Stringfellow: You don't know yet, but now, you know, I just -- 13 it just dawned on me what Allen was saying a 14 minute ago. In other words, if we say, "and no 15 failures or problems have occurred in any of these 16 starts," you are saying that that's not true. 17 Aufdenkampe: Yes, I'm saying that's not true. 18 Stringfellow: Oh, wonderful. Okay. t 19 Aufdenkampe: So, which is also telling you that -- it's telling 20 you something else, I imagine. Because you know 21 this has been written to the NRC once already. 22 Stringfellow: Yes, I know. That's exactly what I was thinking. 23 Aufdenkampe: So, I'm working on that. 24 Stringfellow: All right, John. okay. Well, I'll be patiently 25 waiting or impatiently waiting or however you want 26 to look at it. (Laughing.) 50 -
. . . - .- . - . -- . ~ . - -. -. - , . . _
1 Aufdenkampe: Okay. Well, I must be off. 2: Stringfellow: Thanks.
-3 Aufdenkampe: Bye. '
4 (Phone call with Stringfellow ends.) (Pause.) 5 Mosbaugh: Do you have that other letter? 6 Aufdenkampe:. Huh? 7 Mosbaugh: Do you have Hairston's confirmation of action 8 response letter?- > 9 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. 10 Mosbaugh: Because that's the one where corporate -- , 11 Aufdenkampe: Where they lied -- I mean they -- ; 12 Mosbaugh: -- made that statement previously. 13 Aufdenkampe: Mr. Jimmy, hey, what are you doing'down here sir?- 14 Voice: I just came by to say hello and see if I can talk 15 to you a little bit about this conoreal blowdown f 16 question. ! 17 Aufdenkampe: You mean it's going to be done Friday? 18 Voice: It's going to be done tomorrow. It may be done ' 19 today. 20 Mosbaugh: That go out to you guys? 21 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. 32 Mosbaugh: Went to Cliff and then went to you? 23 Aufdenkampe: Yeah.
-24 Mosbaugh: Let me see if I can't pull some diesel stuff from i 25 Kochery.
26 Aufdenkampe: Okay. Ken Stokes is working on it. 51 _ - _ . . , _ ~ _
I n; . H ' 1 (Pause.) , 2I [ Marginalia: Rochery's office.) 3- Mosbaugh: So what -- A, B okay. That's it. We're working on 4 the LER. It's got to go in today. From the -- 5 okay. So from the inadvertent start. 6 Kochery: Yeah, It has to be from a sequencer. 7 Mosbaugh: You think it's from a sequencer, not from this? 8 Kochery: It's (inaudible) through the wire. It'doesn't 9 matter which wire they pulled _(inaudible). 10 Mosbaugh: Okay. 11 Kochery: The sequencer is out of service. If they did the 12 test, and, you know, energized the relay, 13 (inaudible,) if (inaudible,) the diesel starts i 14 through that one. You (inaudible). You should 15 have brought in a B train sequencer come on, the 16 diesel (inaudible) start at the time, you know. 17 It's not -- it has nothing to_do with the ESFAS 18 test. There is an ESFAS test, and they continue 19 with the other tests also. That's the problem. I 20 mean, they go to the sequencer and then push the-21 sequencer buttons, you know. Like this one. , 22 Mosbaugh: What if they didn't push the button? That would 23 cause it, wouldn't it? 24 Kochery: They say they got this light, you know. 25 Mosbaugh: They say they got a light. Let's say that's a 26 lie. Does everything get explained then? I mean, 52
1 could it have been, you know, a simple error, or 2 would.some other things have happened? 3 Kochery: If -- okay. If they push the light in, they got
~4. the light, and then they test SI. That's what
~'
5 they said they did. 6 Mosbaugh: Uh-huh. ; 7 Kochery: And the diesel started. 8 Mosbaugh: What if they forgot? What if they forgot to push 9 that block? 10 Kochery: Then -- , 11 Mosbaugh: And indeed they didn't get the light? 12 . Kochery: Okay. Then -- 13 Mosbaugh: Then it would have started? 14 (Pause.] 15 Kochery: Yeah, Yeah. You see when you push that -- 16 Mosbaugh: So it could have been something as simple as -- 17 you know, I understand that they're not saying 18 that. 19 Kochery: Okay. If the sequencer is in the sequence mode, l 1 20 when you push this one -- 21 Mosbaugh: Yes. 22 Kochery: (Pause) This ... that means (inaudible) and you ; 23 can get one, you know. ; 24 Mosbaugh: So it's either that or there's something wrong l 25 with the sequencer, you're thinking. ; 36 Jochery: And then it's (inaudible). You got the diesel 53 l l l 9 'w+w-- r -- , e - -_r
1 (inaudible). Yeah. That's that block diesel 2 engine. 3 (Beeper noise.) 4 Mosbaugh: All right. Birmingham's-calling. 5 Kochery: If test block diesel engine is not there. You 6 push the button, you can get it started, you know. 7 Mosbaugh: Yeah. Okay. I got to call, call the duty people. 8 (Pause.) (Walking sounds.) 9 Mosbaugh: Any new status on the torsional test? 10 Blount: Kavi and Bill haven't been back up yet, so I have 11 no new (inaudible). 12 VOICE: Okay. 13 (Telephone ringing.) 14 (Pause.) (Walking sounds; door closing sound; 15 telephone dialing sound.] (Mosbaugh calls shipman, 16 phone dial tone.) 17 Shipman: Hello. i 18 Mosbaugh: Yeah, this is Allen Mosbaugh. I 19 Shipman: Hey Allen, this is Bill Shipman, j 20 Mosbaugh: Say Bill. l 21 Shipman: Do you think you can talk for a minute? 22 Mosbaugh: I am. 23 Shipman: Great -- Help! l 24 Mosbaugh: Okay. 25 Shipman: Uh, the uh, LER, you know, we're, we're, we're 26 trying to get all these Hairston question 54 I
1
.1- answered.
2 Mosbaugh: All right. 3 Shipman: There are two things, I guess, George [Hairston) I L 4 has asked us, you know, to find out and, and I 5 guess you were, you and, you were probably at the 6 time talking with Jack and Jack answered, I guess 7 one of the questions, and the question has to do
)
8 with, when the operators went into the diesel u 9 panel the first time -- 4 10 Mosbaugh: Right. 11 Shipman: -- it has to do with whether they observed any of ! 12 the instrumentation or whether they just went and 13 noticed the annunciators lit and reset the 14 annunciators. George has remembered hearing 15 somewhere that the operators looked at some 16 pressure gauges or something for some of the 17 diesel engine functions before they reset the 18 annunciators, and you know, I don't know what the 19 operator did, but he's so insistent in trying to 20 respond -- to get a response to that question. 21 I wondered if the operator or the operators who 22 was on shift or who went into the diesel room at 23 that time is on shift now and somebody could ask 24 him a direct question? 25 Mosbaugh: I'll find him and we will get him on the phone. 26 Shipman: That would be great. 55 } l _ . _ - _ _ __- _ -.-___.._______._______.._._______________-______m_ _ . . _ _ _ _ _. _ _ . . _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ .
l i 1 1 Mosbaugh: You know, I mean, he may not be on shift, in which 2 case we can try to reach him at home. I can go do 3 all that. 4 Shipman: Do-you understand, Allen that -- 5 Mosbaugh: My understanding is that I don't think they looked 6 at much. 7 Shipman: I don't either. 8 Mosbaugh: Okay. I was in the critique. I don't -- I did -- l 9 I did -- uh, I was in the meeting with Al Chaffee l 10 and the team when they interviewed the operators 11 that first responded to the panel, and I recall 12 them talking to Al Chaffee about that, but, you 13 know, they -- the gist of that conversation is l t 14 that they didn't (laughing) scrutiAize things very 15 much and, you know, indeed the diesel had already l l 16 tripped. So when they got into the room, it was a l 17 good number of -- well, it was minutes later and 18 the machine had already tripped. Nobody was in 19 the room when the machine tripped. And, uh, so 1 20 all they could have observed, you know, when they 21 got in, was what remained lit at that time and any 22 machine parameters that were still valid with the 23 machine tripped. That's all that was physically 24 available to observe. 25 (Pause) 26 Hello. Hello. [ Shipman was disconnected. 56
1 Mosbaugh calls him back.] 2 [ Phone dial tone.] [ Telephone ringing.) 3 Shipman: Hey, Allen. 4 Mosbaugh: Something happened. 5 Shipman: About the time you started telling me about 6 sitting with Chaffee. 7 Mosbaugh: Yeah. 8 Shipman: We just sort of lost you. 9 Mosbaugh: Okay. Anyway, I was in there like I said, they 10 didn't, you know, respond that they saw very much. 11 Indeed, nobody was in the room when it tripped. 12 Shipman: Right. 13 Mosbaugh: It tripped before they got to the room. All they 14 could have seen, all that would have been 15 available to see, would be whatever annunciators 16 remained lit and whatever engine parameters 17 remained valid with the machine stopped. 18 Shipman: Right. 19 Mosbaugh: So that doesn't leave a whole lot. 20 Shipman: Okay. 21 Mosbaugh: And I believa that, you know, they cleared the 22 annunciators, you know, without much assessment. 23 Shipman: Well, I put myself in their place and I would have 24 walked in the room and said, yeah, there is some 25 annunciators lit and reset them and all the things 26 that would have cleared would have cleared and l 57
t 1 'those that were still valid alarms would have 2 remained lit and I would have gone on and tried to , 3 get the diesel started. 4 Mosbaugh:. Yeah.
~
5 shipman: So, you know, I don't have a problem with what 6 we've got written, but. George does, and I just , 7 need to get a -- 8 Mosbaugh: Yeah, okay. Let me do my best. I'11'try to find 9 -- to see if the operator is here. If he is here, 10 we'll try to get him. If he is at home, we will 11 try to call him and I'll see if I can set that up 12 so we can ask the questions. 13 Shipman: Okay and the other, of course, the other question 14 we have been trying to get an answer to is to 15 reassure George (Hairston) that we have had more , 16 than 20 valid starts since, you know, March 20, 17 like we say in the LER. 18 Mosbaugh: Yeah, now you realize I think there is a problem 19 with the way that is stated, because, you know, 20 the machine -- we can -- you know, we got one of 21 the guys trying to find what the total number of 7 22 the valid starts is, but there were failures. 23 Shipman: The problem that we got, Allen, is that the data 24 that is in LER is what George wrote and took and - 25 told to the, Ebneter last Monday in Atlanta. 26 Mosbaugh: Well, you know, if anybody said that there weren't l 58 ; l 1 l I
1 any failures, you know, that's just not true. 2 Shipman: Well, if you look at George's [Bockhold) outline 3 that he made to take to Atlanta with him, he says, 4 at that time, it was like 18 and 19. 5 Mosbaugh: Yeah. 6 Shipman: And without a failure. 7 Mosbaugh: Umm. 8 Shipman: So, you know, somebody had given George that 9 information. 10 Mosbaugh: On the B? 11 Shipman: Have we had a failure since George went to -- 12 Mosbaugh: No, on the B. Let me, let me tell you what I 13 know, okay. On the B machine, on the B machine on 14 3/22 at 12:43, the machine tripped on high lube 15 oil temperature. 16 Shipman: Caused by what? 17 Mosbaugh: Caused by the switch that gives you a high lube 18 oil temperature, probably (laugh). 19 Shipman: No. I understand that, but did we not have a -- 20 Mosbaugh: I don't believe a high temperature physical 21 condition existed. I believe -- 22 Shipman: Was that a valid -- considered a valid failure? 23 Mosbaugh: I haven't assessed these for being valid or not. 24 Shipman: See, because we, I could -- we could, we could 25 solve the problem that is created by that , 26 information by saying no valid failures. 59 l
..? .- l l 1 1 2 Mosbaugh: [Looking_at a document.) Let me find -- I think 3_ we've got one other one. Here 11. is. - (Reading) 4' "On 3/23 at 17:31, the machine tripped on low" -- 1 5 this is B machine again - "on low jacket water 6 pressure / turbo lube oil pressure low." 7 Shipman: Okay. The-first one was on what date, did you ! 8 say? 9 Mosbaugh: Three-twenty-two. 10 Shipman: Okay. How -- you know, with that data - uh, I 11 think this thing has already been through the PRB ) 12 a couple of timed. How in the world did it get 13 through the PRB? 14 Mosbaugh: What's that? 15 shipman: The statement -- l 16 Mosbaugh: The LER or -- 17 Shipman: Yeah, the LER. ! 18 Mosbaugh: Well, I mean -- 19 Shipman: Was that data not available in the PRB? 20 Mosbaugh: The previous times that this LER went through the 21 PRB, I'm not sure if those statements were in 22 there. r 23 shipman: Okay, Jack says " yeah, they were." 24 Mosbaugh: They were? 25 Shipman: Yeah. 26 Stringfellow: In fact, the last PRE added the parenthetical 60 l
c l 1 1 1~ phrase "more than 20 times'each." I say the last 2 -- not today, but the previous PRB.
'3- Mosbaugh: You know, this thing -- it came to the PRB, you 4 know, 15 pages long the first time, and then it j
5 was basically tabled for a complete rewrite back
)
6 to eight pages, and -- 7 Stringfellow: It went back to the PRB as eight pages. 8 Mosbaugh: It went back as eight and, uh, -- , I 9 Shipman: Well, anyway -- 10' Mosbaugh: -- anyway. 11 Shipman: Irregardless, the whole question is immaterial 12 and, you know it is just -- it's sort of a bother. 13 But what we need to do is find out what's correct - 14 and make sure we only say what's correct. 15 Mosbaugh: Yeah. I -- you know, what I have here is thera l 16 was a tabulation made of diesel activities early , 17 on by Kochery, and that's where I am getting this 18 information from. And, uh, I believe these -- I 19 believe this tabulation was provided to the 20 Chaffee team. ; 21 Shipman: Well, the uh, I think people have been reviewing ' 22 the diesel generator log, but that would only -- 23 as we talked the other day, that only went through ) 24 the 13th of April. j 19 20sbaugh: Yeah. Yeah. This data picks up on the 13th. 26 Shipman: Somebody, gosh, somebody must have looked. Allen, 61 l l l l c ,
'.. :. i
~ 1 1 would you take that.as a>second thing and try-to 2 'get me the correct'information for that? It~ !
3 sounds'like this whole' statement needs to be just 4 stricken.
~5 Mosbaugh:-. You know, I basically don't have any better i
6 information than the two trips I told'you about on 7 the.22nd and -- 8 Stringfellow: Can you determine if those were valid tests or. 9 valid failures? l i 10 Mosbaugh: Let me talk to Stokes and Kochery about them. 11 Shipman: I guess at the point where we're in now where this. l 12 thing -- its been to PRB several times and we have 13 several review cycles up here and everybody has l 14 gotten accustomed to seeing that data. If we can 15 use the data we probably ought to. 'Certainly, if ; 16 its not a valid statement, we need to_get it the ; 17 heck out of here regardless of what George told 18 Ebneter. So, you know, if there is anything you ; 19 need to do to check to make sure the data you have i 20 from Paul (Kochery) is correct and valid, we would 21 ask that you do that, or if you feel very 22 confident that it is correct now, I just need to 23 see what I need to do about striking this i l 24 statement. 25 Mosbaugh: Okay. I feel that this is the best data there is 26 and I believe it's accurate. I will verify with 62
1 Kochery though. 2 Shipman: Okay. 3 Mosbaugh: And I will pursue trying to get a conversation 4 with the operator. 5 Shipman: Okay. Jack and I are going to leave here and walk 6 down to Mr. Hairston's office to go over his : 7 comments and what we have been able to do with 8 those and try to, you know, finish beating out ! 9 what he wants to do to this thing. And so if you 10 want, you know, if you find somebody and want to 11 call back you might just call down there. 12 Mosbaugh: What's the number? 13 Shipman: 5581. 14 Mosbaugh: Okay. 15 Shipman: Yeah. That's right. Okay 16 Mosbaugh: Will do. We are into the torsional test. 17 Shipman: Right. We are into it. 18 Mosbaugh: Yeah. We spun the machine up to 1800. Had a 19 little problem with a seal oil emergency pump 20 coming on, adjusted the set point, and, uh, we're i 21 back down -- coasted back down and into the 22 torsional. 23 Shipman: Okay. Did we come all the way back down to 100 , 24 and start, or did we -- 25 Mosbaugh: I think we did some at 100 on the way up. l 26 Shipman: Okay. l 63 , l
)
i i I
, _ . _ _ I
i; 11 Mosbaugh: So they're a little further into the procedure' 2 than the first activities at 100. 3 Shipman: Okay. Great. I appreciate that information. 4 Thanks, Allen. l
'5- Mosbaugh: All right. Bye. .
l 6 VOICE: See you later. i' 7 (Pause.) (Break in taping.] 8 Mosbaugh: Do we have any idea how many valid starts we've 9 had? You know, if we're going to speak in terms 10 of valid failures, then we need to speak in terms 11 of valid starts. i 12 Kochery: Diesel Generator 1A until the incident. Sixty-six ; 13 are valid -- 14 Mosbaugh: I'm talking about afterwards (inaudible). Since ! 15 3-20. Do we have any idea, because you haven't 16 gotten any of the paperwork from Operations.
]
17 Stokes: We've got some of the paperwork, but not much. I 18 can look through that and see if there are any I 19 valid failures. It's pointless at-this time ) J 20 (inaudible). l 21 Kochery: I tell you, we didn't have any valid failures 1 22 after that. 23 Stokes: But they may be valid tests. 1 24 Kochery: Yeah. 25 Mosbaugh: The problem is if we speak in terms of valid 26 failures, then we may have to say, out of no valid 64
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I i 1- failures,.out of blank valid tests, okay?- i 2 'Kochery: Yeah. ) 3l Mosbaugh: 'otherwise-we're going to say no valid failures out. ! 4 of X tests, and then we've got apples and. oranges ,
'S kind of compared and somebody-might think we're. !
6 misleading them. 7 Stokes: It's definitely a requirement, they say-how many 4 8 valid failures do you have in the 100 last-tests. 1 1 9 Kochery: Fine. 10 Stokes: The LER always report how many valid tests we've 11 had, and, you know, I told them they can make that >
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12 decision, whichever way they want to go. It l 13 doesn't matter. I told then -- you know, I can 14 provide that as soon as I get the information:out , 15 of Ops. (Inaudible.) 16 Mosbaugh: Okay. The operators -- I'm getting a lot of 17 questions from SONOPCO now because we're getting 18 ready to submit the LER, okay? They want to talk 19 to the operators that responded to the panel. 20 Stokes: Okay. 21 Mosbaugh: Do you know who they are? 22 Stokes: Yeah, I know one name. 23 Mosbaugh: Can I get -- 24 Kochery: I have the name of the guy. 25 Mosbaugh: Give me the name. 26 Stokes: Slim Whitman was one. I can remember that one. 65 l l
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- 1 1 Mosbaugh: Slim Whitman. Okay. Can't' forget that one. See- i 2' if you can give me the names of:the people, and- j 3 I'm going to call Schwartz. ;
'4 Kochery: (Inaudible.] l 5- Mosbaugh: Okay. j 6 (Pause.]
7 Kochery: See, I got those information from the log. F Mosbaugh: 8 This here you compiled from the Operations control l 9 log or diesel log -- do they have a separate log, 10 a diesel log? 11 Kochery: Control room log, the regular log. 12 (Pause.] 13 Mosbaugh: All right. Here we go. S.L. Whitman. Okay. What 14 is this? Duane? 15 Kochery: Yeah. DeLoach. 16 Mosbaugh: Oh, I've been hearing him paged today. 17 VOICE: Yeah. 18 Mosbaugh: And what's this? Is that -- I can't read that. 19 Is that a Jackson? It almost looks like a Jackson. 20 Kochery: It looks like. Okay. This is'-- let me see. 21 Mosbaugh: It almost looks like a J.C., J.C. Jackson, it 22 looks like. 23 Kochery: Duane DeLoach, okay, Joey Jackson. 24 Mosbaugh: Joey, yeah. Okay. 25 Kochery: [ Inaudible.] Here's another one. 26 Mosbaugh: These are their statements? , 66 l
1 Kochery: Yeah. 2 Mosbaugh: Let me -- okay. This goes with this. 3 Kochery: They go together. 4 Mosbaugh: Is this all of them? 5 Kochery: Yeah. That's the only -- 6 Mosbaugh: Only two of them gave statements? 7 Kochery: Yeah. 8 Mosbaugh: Okay. 9 Kochery: I believe it's from this one, too, Allen,.I think. 10 Mosbaugh: Okay. Let me go get Schwartz and see if can get 11 any of these people. How are we doing. 12 Kavi: We maintained at 1800 RPM and then they were 13 supposed to close the breaker. They close the 14 breaker, and what they do is apply the excitation. 15 Mosbaugh: Yeah. 16 .Kavi: They did apply the excitation. 17 Mosbaugh: Yeah. 18 Ka .'i : And then we go up to five percent of negative 19 sequence current. 20 Mosbaugh: Okay. 21 Kavi: And I think at that plateau, they take some 22 readings and all that. 23 Mosbaugh: Okay. 24 Kavi: So we had gone up to about two-and-a-half percent 25 negative sequence current. 26 Mosbaugh: So far. 67
34 signal generated when you push the buttons, you 25 know. Two milliseconds, you know. So the signal . 36 does go. That's what the interpretation is now. 68 i _ . . ._ ._ _ _ _ _ . _ . . -. -- . J
1 We don't know if it's right or wrong. 2 Mosbaugh: The signal, what do you mean goes? 3 Kavi: The diesel generator, the start signal. 4 Mosbaugh: Oh. Even with this in the block? 5 Kavi: That, it should not go, though. It should go, but 6 in the block it should not. 7 Mosbaugh: Right. 8 Kavi: If you're looking at the logic drawing, its not 9 getting very clear. Kenny was looking at this 10 morning. 11 Mosbaugh: Okay. 12 Kavi: And Ken Stokes was but trying to see [ inaudible). 13 Mosbaugh: Okay. Thank you. 14 (Pause.] (Break in taping.] 15 (Noise and voices in the background.] 16 (Pause.] I 3 17 Cash: But if the light came on, it should have stayed 18 on, and he did not know for sure it came on and 19 that it was out after he pushed it. l l 20 VOICE: (Inaudible.] 21 (Telephone ringing.] 1 22 Cash: Mr. Swartzwelder's office, this is Jimmy Cash. ! 23 Yes, sir. He's right here. Okay. l [ Inaudible.] j l 14 Dan, (inaudible). 25 VOICE: (Inaudible.] 26 VOICE: l Hi, Jack. Right. 69
l i l l l' (Pause.) l 2, (Jim Swartzwelder. talking on the phone.) l 3 Swartzwelder: Yeah. Anybody present wants to talk to him? 4 ! (Pause.)
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5 VOICE: The Senior Vice President wants to talk to him. 6 Swartzwelder: Mr. Hairston wants -- is having some difficulty 7 with the way things are stated in the LER dealing 8 with the Site Area Emergancy and would like to 9 hear firsthand from the operator at the diesel 10 exactly what was done so he can assess whether 11 what is stated in the LER is okay. You know, they 12 don't need to quake in their boots as they walk up 13 here. It's no, not, no big deal. And they're not 14 going to get yelled at by a Senior Vice' President. { 15 VOICE: [ Inaudible.) 16 Swartzwelder: They're not going to be yelled at. If anybody 17 gets yelled at because of what they say, it'll be 18 me. They will not get yelled at. I promise you. 19 VOICE: (Inaudible.) 20 Swartzwelder: Okay. You' pass that word around. Okay. Bye-bye. 21 Cash: They need to go get the IR transcripts 22 (inaudible). 23 Mosbaugh: I have them. 24 (Laughter.) 25 Mosbaugh: I have that, if you're interested. No. This is 26 not the transcript, this is a statement. I'm not 70
1 sure I have -- let's see, who is this? 2 [ Simultaneous discussion.] 3 VOICE: -- not from the NRC transcript anyway. 4 VOICE: The three PEOs. 5 VOICE: Thanks, Lee. 6 Cash: I just wanted to [ inaudible). 7 Mosbaugh: That's okay. 8 Cash: And that we probably would not have an extra set 9 [ inaudible). 10 [ Pause.) 11 Cash: They were also going to call the [ inaudible) once 12 they talked to I & C and find out from I & C 13 what's the matter. What we can do, if we run it, 14 this is what we discussed -- i 15 VOICE: Even if we lift the leads. 16 VOICE: No. [ Inaudible.] l 17 Swartzwelder: No. I mean can't we do that?
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18 VOICE: We're going to relay [ inaudible). 1 19 Cash: [ Whistling.] That is your diesel start. If you 20 lift the lead there and you get an SI while you're 21 doing testing, the diesel ain't going to start. 22 Swartzwelder: There are several tests that we do on a diesel -- ! 23 VOICE: Yeah. 24 Swartzwelder: I mean -- and we'd have to take an LCO to test it. 1 25 Cash: Well, not the -- what we talked about doing this. 26 Swartzwelder: This is a field lead they lift. 71 l I
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4 1- , VOICE: (Inaudible.) 2 VOICE' .From being on-shift. I'll say yes. 3 (Pause.) 4 VOICE: (Inaudible).
- 5. (Pause.) (Whistling, walking sounds.) (Break in 6 taping.]
7 Odom: That's not good. The LER is not the problem, that t 8 letter sounds like the problem. 4 9 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. The LER is not a problem. 10 Mosbaugh: What? ' 11 Aufdenkampe: Allen just walked in. 12 Mosbaugh: Shipman just called me. He's got me getting the 13- operator so that Hairston can talk to the operator 14 on that issue of what they saw when they got 15 .there. And then I gave Shipman the specifics. So 16 you want to see these trips? '- 17 Aufdenkampe: Well -- 18 Mosbaugh: Here's the trips. 19 Aufdenkampe: Yeah, I got them. Rick just talked to me about 20 the trips. 21 Mosbaugh: Okay. 22 Aufdenkampe: There's two of them. 23 Mosbaugh: Yeah. There's two trips. One on the 22nd and one 24 on the 23rd. 25 Aufdenkampe: Atlanta -- what Birmingham is thinking now is that 26 they made a material false statement in the April 72
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1 9th letter. 1!. ~Mosbaugh: That would be a good thing for them to think
-3 about. ,
4 Aufdenkampe: Who'd he say? McCoy, Hairston and Mcdonald'are l
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5 reviewing this now? 6 Mosbaugh: I'm calling back into Hairston's office as soon as j 7 we get the operator up here. f 8 Aufdenkampe: Is he coming to my office? 9 Mosbaugh: No. He's coming down to Swartz' office. Anyway, 10 I believe that your two failures are not valid 1 11 failures. They are -- 12 Aufdenkampe: That's correct. 13 Odom: That is correct. 14 Mosbaugh: Okay. 15- Aufdenkampe: There's no question about that. i 16 Mosbaugh: So, however, if you're going to speak in terms of ; 17 valid -- of having "no valid failures," you also 18 -need to prob &bly speak in terms of, "out of X ' 19 valid tests." You know, otherwise it would appear 20 that you're trying to pick -- 21 Odom: I'll tell you something. I got the 4/9 letter in 22 front of me, John. ' 23 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. 24 Odom: I don't think the letter is a material false 25 statement now. 26 Mosbaugh: I read it, and it was very marginal. 73 l l
1- Odom: It says, (Reading) "Since March 20th, the A diesel 2 has been started 18 times and the B diesel has 3 been started 19 times. No. failures or problems 4 have occurred during any of these starts." That's 5 not wrong. 6 Aufdenkampe: It's misleading. It is misleading. 7 Mosbaugh: Odom. Try that again. 8 Odom: It's not wrong. It says since March 20th, 9 Mosbaugh: Hold it. Read it again. 10 Odom: Okay. [ Reading] "Since March 20th,.the A diesel 11 has been started 18 times and the B diesel has 12 been started 19 times. No failures or problems 13 have occurred during any of these starts." 14 Mosbaugh: That is only true, that is only not materially 15 false if the total number of starts -- 16 Odom: Is 18 and 19. 17 Mosbaugh: No. Is 20 or 20 -- what's-the number on the B 18 diesel? 19 Aufdenkampe: 21. 20 Odom: The letter says 19. 21 Mosbaugh: That's only true if there have been 19 starts on 22 the B machine since 3-23 at 17:00 hours. 23 Odom: I agree. I see what you're saying. You're saying 24 -- 25 Mosbaugh: Only if there have been 19 since 3-23 at 17:31 is 26 that statement not false. 74
1 .Odom: Since March 20th though, is the meaning of that
'2 sentence.
3 Mosbaugh: I have no' problem with that, because what we're 4 doing -- it's still correct if you can dismiss the 5 period of time between 3-20 and 17:31 on.3-23. 6 It's merely since that date, and I'm -- and then 7 there have been no, you know, no failed starts or 8 no problems, resets you to 3-23. 9 Odom: Right. 10 Mosbaugh: At 17:30. But if there haven't been 19 starts 11 since 17:31 on 3-23, then it's still false. 12 Odom: Right. 13 Mosbaugh: Even under that subtle interpretation. 14 Odom: Okay. 15 Mosbaugh: So actually if somebody can verify that, that's 16 really critical to knowing if that statement is 17 true or false. How do we know that? Does anybody 18 have that data? 19 Odom: No. 20 Mosbaugh: You're getting it? 21 Odom: I'm not getting -- I haven't started getting that 22 data. 23 Mosbaugh: Hold it. Well, if Tom's getting the total starts 24 history, he should concentrate on the B machine 25 and get the start information. 26 Aufdenkampe: We don't have the logs. 75 a
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( i 1 Mosbaugh: You don't have the logs yet. You're just not far 2 enough along to have it.
-3 'Aufdenkampe: The -- well, the real key is that it's really got 4 to come from Kenny Stokes.
5 Odom: Right. 6 Mosbaugh: Well, it's got to come from Operations. 7 Operations has yet to send it to Kenny. 8 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. And it's got to come from Kenny-Stokes 9 because Kenny Stokes -- you know, I'm just talking 10 about the -- telling the NRC people because Kenny 11 Stokes is the one who makes the calls of " valid" 12 or " invalid". 13 Mosbaugh: Yeah, but there's no -- the letter does not use 14 the word " valid," so that can be derived fr'om log 15 data without engineering interpretation. Right?. 16 They don't use the word " valid"? 17 Odom: No. 18 Mosbaugh: Okay. At what date was that letter written? 19 Odom: Ninth of April. 20 Mosbaugh: 4-9? 21 Odom: Yes. 22 Mosbaugh: Basically, if you had all the logs between 3-23 23 and 4-9 inclusive, you could have what you needed. 24 And all you'd need to do, I think, is get the B 25 machine. 26 (Pause.) 76 ; i l l j
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l L1; Mosbaugh: Do you have that?
- 2. (Pause.).
3 Aufdenkampe: Hello? 4 Odom: Yeah. We just started talking about. We just 5 said -- but the problem right now is not -- the 6 LER statement, I think, could come out. Do you 7 all agree with that? ,
-8 Aufdenkampe: That's fine. .
9 Mosbaugh: We need to know in the LER what we can say or can i 10 say safely. We have to say -- we have to either 11 say -- you can use the word " valid" in the LER and 12 most probably be correct. But you may have to
- 13. change your numbers.
14 Webb: Allen? 15 Mosbaugh: Yeah. 16 Webb: This is Tom Webb. Do you feel lika ;e should -- I 17 think we should do one of two things. Just tell 18 me what you think. We need to get rid of the 19 statement in the LER about how many failures or 20 how many tests you've got all together, or else 21 correct the misconception that we generated on 22 April 9th. I don't know if we should try to 23 continue the misconception that started nine days t 24 ago. I 25 Mosbaugh: Mr. Hairston will have to decide on that since ha 26 signed it. And I think, however, we have to 77 l l L - . _
1 quickly get the information I just mentioned. 2 odom: We can't get it quickly is my problem. We don't 3 have that information available. That's got to 4 come from ...
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5 Mosbaugh: Hold it. Hold it, hold it, hold it. For the B 6 machine, if you'll -- if you have the control logs' 7 8 odom: I don't have all the control logs is my problem 9 right now. I've got days missing. I can go and 10 look right know at what I got and we start on the 11 days missing. 12 Mosbaugh: If you got the control logs for the B machine from 13 3-23 to 4-9 inclusive, you can do the job. 14 Odom: We're going to go look for them. 15 Mosbaugh: Okay. 16 Williams: You're talking about the logs from Kenny Stokes? 17 Mosbaugh: Yeah. 18 Williams: They're not up-to-date. They're not current. 19 Mosbaugh: We know that. We're talking control room logs. 20 Williams: Those aren't up-to-date. 21 Mosbaugh: No, no. Control room logs have to be filled out 22 at the time they're generated. Right? 23 Williams: They do. 24 Mosbaugh: Well, they sure as hell better have them. 25 Williams: He's got all the control logs already. 26 Mosbaugh: Well, he said he had some days missing. 78 i
e x a 1 Williams: I've got all of them. 2 Mosbaugh: You have them all? 3 Williams: Yeah. 4 Mosbaugh: The logs -- 5 Aufdenkampe: The reactor operators' logs? 6 Williams: I have the RO log and the SS log. 7 Mosbaugh: Okay. The log that would show diesel starts. Which 8 log do they log that in? The RO log? 9 Williams: Both usually. Both. 10 Mosbaugh: Whichever one is most complete. 11 Aufdenkampe: The RO log is the one that logs the starts. 12 Mosbaugh: Okay. The RO log from -- 13 Sharon: Sharon speaking. 14 Mosbaugh: -- 3-20 to 4-9, inclusive. 15 Aufdenkampe: Sharon, I need Rick Odom. 16 Sharon: Hold on, please. 17 Mosbaugh: Okay. Do you have both of them? 18 Sharon: John? 19 Aufdenkampe: Yes? 20 Sharon: Do you want me to go in for him? (Inaudible.) 21 (Walking sounds; door closing sounds.) (Background 22 noise.) 23 ***END TAPE NO. 57, SIDE B*** 24 79
I b~'~-- CV 6 GPC EXHIBIT 2 1 1 **BEGIN TAPE NO. 58, SIDE A** 2 Swartzwalder: (Inaudible) plant equipment operator. 3 Voice: Hold on. 4 Swartzwalder: Thank you. 5 Mosbaugh: (Inaudible.) 6 Voice: It's probably the best one he's got, the handwritten one? 7 Mosbaugh: Yeah. These aren't transcript type. This is what 8 (inaudible) 9 Swartzwalder: It has to be what he had doing his LER, I think. I 10 believe that's what he had. 11 Mosbaugh: Yeah. This is because of the LER we're getting ready to 12 . submit. 13 Voice: Okay. 14 Swartzwelder: Mr. Hairston 15 Voice: Yeah. 16 Swartzwelder: This is Jim Swartzwelder. 17 Voice: Hey, Jim. 18 Swartzwelder: Allen came in my office. He's here with me. He says 19 that you'd like to talk to Duane DeLoach or Slim Whitman. 20 Mosbaugh: Is Bill Shipman in with you? 21 Hairston: No. He's down on another phone downstairs. 22 Mosbaugh: Okay. 23 Hairston: We -- j 24 Swartzwelder: I have Duane here. 25 Hairston: Was Duane one of the operators that was in the -- 26 Swartzwelder: That went to the diesel. l l 1 l
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1 .Hairston: Duane, let me tell you what -- why -- I've got-to sign 2 out this LER on this event. 3 DeLoach: Yes. 4 Hairston: And we're talking the first time the diesel tripped and , 5 you went to'the diesel. I 6 DeLoach: Yes. 7 Hairston: And I don't have it right in front : of me, but it -- 8 (pause) get the words, what it said, "af ter the trip, 9 operators were dispatched to the engine control panel to 3 10 investigate the cause of the trip." This was after the 11 first one. 12 5/oice: Okay. 13 Hairston: "According to the operator, several annunciators were 14 lit. Without fully evaluating this condition, the 15 operator reset the annunciators, and then, during the
.16 same shift supervisor [ inaudible)."
17 Voice: .. . PRB and they changed it . . . 18 Hairston: Now, the reason they're saying it is this way is, where 19 they can explain it, when they talk about what we were 20 investigating as to why we weren't really sure what 21 tripped it on the first time, and I had had them reword ' 22 that, and I don't have the rewording, ' but it said 23 sosething like this: "In order to restore power" or { 24 something to that bus, I forget exactly how I worded it, ' 25 "the operator reset the annunciators without fully i 26 evaluating the condition." What I wanted to do is say, ,
t 3 i hey, you know, it wasn't he just went down and blindly 2 pushed the damn button. 3 DeLoach: Yeah. 4 Hairston: You were trying to get the diesel going. Now, what all - 4 5
- and I think all that's correct and you need to tell na 6
if its not, but what I'm trying to do is come up with an 7 additional sentence to put right in front of that, , 8 something to the effect of, "The operator briefly looked 9 at several instrument readouts and no problems were 10 noted." There are two key things in that: One, it was 11 briefly -- you only looked at two, like, like I'm sure
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12 you read the panel. 13 DeLoach: Yes sir. 14 Hairston: And did you look at, say, jacket temperature or pressure? 15 DeLoach: I glanced at all of the parameters on the panel to make 16 sure they were okay. Also, looked at the engine l 17 physically itself to make sure there were no parts flying ' 18 apart somewhere, and that's the reason it wasn't running. 19 Hairston: And you did that before you reset the annunciator panel, 20 right? i 21 DeLoach: Yeah. I walked by the diesel, looking at it on the way 22 in. Even though its dark, if there was a part laying ] 33 anywhere you would know it. 24 Hairston: But you actually looked at the gauges and you didn't see 25 anything abnormal. 26 DeLoach: Right. I
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l' Hairston: See, I don't want to say that you did a thorough look,;i 2 but,youknow,I'veoperatedmyselfandIknowthat-youj 3 just don't go out here and push the dang button without-4 scanning something. Do'you think it's,a true statement ' l 5 that you briefly observed or looked at several of the' 6 instrument readouts and noted no problems? _ Now, I didn't - 7 say that there was a problem, it just basically says you ;) 8 looked at several of the instrument readouts briefly, and 9 you didn't note a problem. Is that a truthful statement? 10 DeLoach: Yes, sir. 11 Hairston: You see, it just don't look right -- the way this thing 12 - read to begin with, it looks like you just .went down 13 there and closed your eyes and pushed the reset button.- 14' DeLoach: Yeah, I read that when I read it once already myself. 15 Hairston: And that's not right, is it? 16 DeLoach: No. 17 Hairston: Okay. Well, I just -- you know, I think you all did a 18 good job without talking -- just going down there running 19 that diesel -- you know, if there had been a problem, 20 running it into the ground and tearing it up. That's one 21 of the strong things I'm trying to say about this thing, 22 is that you all knew you had a little time, and you took 23 the time to check the diesel out, especially after the 24 second trip. 25 DeLoach: Yes, sir. I 26 Hairston: So I feel comfortable with that. Jim? 27 Svartzwalder: Yes, sir? ! l
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'- 5 l'. Hairston: Do you feel comfortable with what I said?
2 Swartzwalder: Yes,' sir. It was never intended to. be otherwise. It 3 wasn't intended to have people running in with their eyes 4 closed. ! 5 Hairston: I know that, and I know why you put the sentence. in 6 there, is where you could explain. Well, we didn't l
- 7. exactly remember what those annunciators were. It was ,
8 put in there really to lead into, you know, what was said 9 later. L 10 Swartzwalder: That's enrrect. 11 Hairston: But to the casual reader, he's going to read something 12 - else into it. Do you see what I mean? ! 13 Swartzwalder: You're probably right, yes. 14 Hairston: Okay. And that's why I just wanted to add a little bit ; i 15 in there and restructure the sentence. Well. Okay, ; 16 fellas. Are we doing torsional testing? 17 Swartzwalder: Yes, we're starting it now. 18 Hairston: Well, good luck. , 19 Mosbaugh: We're more than starting. 20 Swartzwalder: And I'm thinking about going home a little early today. 21 Hairston: Ha, ha, ha. Who's that talking? 22 Mosbaugh: That was Swartzwalder. I 23 Hairston: I'd feel bad if the rest of you all go home. 6 24 Swartzwalder: I don't really like this idea of torsional testing. But f 25 I haven't successfully fought it, that's for sure.
6 l' Hairston: I understand that. Hey, thanks a lot. And I'm sorry to 2 disrupt you all, but I just wanted to make sure that, you 3 know, we had this as candid as we could. 4 Swartzwalder: Okay. Very good. i 5 Hairston: Thank you much. 6- Swartzwalder: You bet. Bye now. Hairston: 7 Bye. 8 Voice: (Inaudible.) This is a new one on me. 9 Cash: I know about high ramp rates. Three percent until you 10 get your fuel conditioning out of -- never heard of a rod 11 withdrawal rate,.three steps per hour. 12 'Swartzwalder: What are you talking about? 13 Cash: That's what I'm asking him. 1 14 Swartzwalder: What are you talking about? - 15 Mosbaugh: We had a rod withdrawal rate . . . 16 Cash: That's the first time I'd ever heard about it. i l 17 Mosbaugh: . . . for the initial restart. I 18 Cash: Sam Bradley just gave Bill Burmaister a note that says, 19
" Hey, tell the control room, that greater than 20 percent 20 an hour, is three percent an hour." We knew that.
21 Carter: Yeah. 22 Cash: Greater than 50 percent an hour is three steps per hour. 23 Voice: Until rods, are all rods out. 24 Cash: I've never heard this one before. 25 Voice: (Inaudible.) 26 Cash: I just thought maybe you were familiar with it. 27 Swartzwalder: I've never heard it. j I l l l
o-i i 1 Mosbaugh: State that requirement again? 2 Cash: Greater than 50 percent an hour, maximum rod withdrawal l 3 rate of three steps per hour. 4 Mosbaugh: I hadn't heard of that, either. 5 Cash: Bill's beeping -- l 6 Carter: Its in all the operators' boxes, too - all the 7 supervisors' boxes -- (inaudible) sent a copy of the 8 letter, yes. 9 Cash: I've never heard about it. 10 Swartzwalder: The entire reason that we have rods [ inaudible). 11 Mosbaugh: I can't help you. 12 -Swartzwalder: I'll tell you what we'll do. We'll go get the dann rods 13 out of the core below 50 percent. l 14 (Pause.) 15 (Walking Sounds; Door Opening Sounds.) 16 Aufdenkampe: Well, the way -- Allen Mosbaugh just walked in, George, 17 so I'll put you on the speaker. The way my people came 18 up with the greater than 20 starts is they took the 18 19 and 19 starts and, based on the April 9th letter, and 20 they went and checked and found out how many starts we 21 had subsequent to April 9th. And that's why you can say 22 greater than 20. i 23 Bockhold: I think you can say greater than 20. Ah, you know, we ! i 24 even had more starts recently. We had a start last, the 25 other night.
1 McCoy: 8j We need to be sure 2 that we know the number of starts after we've completed the comprehensive control test 3 program. 4 Aufdenkampe: 5 I do have people right now going out through -- my people going out through the RO's log. 6 Bockhold: From my numbers that I presented at the, at the 7 conferenca, they were verified correct by Jimmy Paul Cash 8 who went through the operators' logs. 9 McCoy: We ought to use those numbers. 10 Bockhold: Okay. So we'll say greater than those numbers that were 11 used in the conference. 12 -McCoy: Right. And those, um, and those numbers you used in the 13 conference were after they had completed the 14 comprehensive test of the control system on each diesel? 15 Bockhold: That is correct. 16 Those numbers were not before that time. 17 Stringfellow: Are we going to say -- I just want to make sure I'm clear 18
-- are we going to say "Since 3/20/90, DG1A and DG1B have 19 been subjected to a comprehensive test prograr # Or do 20 21 we want to say that kind of stuff, or do we want to just say --
22 Bockhold: Yes, you can say that. 23 McCoy: That's pretty clear. 24 Voice: [ Inaudible.) 25 Mosbaugh: [ Side conversation with Aufdenkampe.] 36 Gotta look at those logs, friend. They ain't done it. 27 Voice: Right.
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9 l t L Voice: (Inaudible.) 2 .lufdenkampe: (Side conversation.] [ Inaudible.) Is the operator 3 downstairs? 4 Mosbaugh: (Side conversation.) Yeah, he's done -- we're done with 5 Hairston on that. l 1 6 Aufdenkampe: You guys talk to Hairston? i 7 Mosbaugh: Hairston's happy with that one. 8 Aufdenkampe: But the wording was [ inaudible)? i l 9 Mosbaugh: He's going to add something. There's a new sentence 'j 10 going in front of -- the one -- 1 11 (End of side conversation.) I i 12 shipman: Eighteen and 19 -- what did you have in your presentation 13 George? Seventeen and 18 or 18 and 197 ' 1 14 Bockhold: Eighteen and 19. i 15 shiptar- If we say greater than 18 -- 16 Stringfellow: We mean more than 18 times. 17 Boekhold: Greater than 18 would be good. 18 Shipman: Fine. 19 McCoy: Wouldn't be more than 18 on one of them. It would be 18. 20 Stringfellow: Say 18 times. ; 21 shipman: Okay, I understand, John and A1, if A1 just walked in, I 22 understand that George [Hairston) just got off the phone 23- with Jim Swartzwalder and the operator and he is ' 24 satisfied now (phone ringing in background) with the -- 25 what the operator did when he walked in the room. i6 Mosbaugh: Yeah, I was down there Bill. And I just ran up here. 7 Yeah, we are done with that one.
l 10 1 Shipman: Apparently -- I don't know how George knows all this 2 stuff, but apparently he -- somehow he knew more about it 3 than you and I did. 4 McCoy: Well, he went down to the plant and talked [ inaudible). 5 Mosbaugh: Well, no, I don't -- not really. 6 Shipman: It sounds like to me the operator, the operator said he 7 looked at something other than the annunciators. 8 Mosbaugh: He confirmed with the operator that the operator did a i 9 i cursory review of instruments. And the operator's , 10 comfortable with, you know, some statement that's kind of 11 like that.
)
12 Shipman: He didn't lead the operator, did he? : l 13 Mosbaugh: I don't think so. 14 Aufdenkampe: Not very far (laughing). 15 shipman: Well, he don't need to lead him at all. The guy might 16 get an opportunity to testify sometime about that. So, 17 you a.3 don't let Mr. Hairston lead the operator. 18 Hairston: I didn't lead the operator. 19 Voice Yeah, an hours worth. 20 Mosbaugh: [ Laughs.) 21 Shipman: I'm making sure that we didn't put words in his mouth. 22 Hairston: No. He said he read that, because he had that same 23 statement, and that he read it. 24 shipman: Okay, ! i 25 Hairston: And Jim explained to him the reason it was put in there 26 was because it ties in later, and Jim said that's the 27 reason. It wasn't to make you think that the operator I 1
11 1 just went down there and closed his eyes and hit the 2 button, but the operator said he didn't. Actually, the 3 operator said he did more. I said survey briefly. The , 4 operator says he looked at all the gauges and he didn't-5 see any problem on them gauges. He said walking by and 6 , he didn't see any mechanical problems. He said he didn't 7 look at it closely, it was dark, but, you know, he didn't 8 see any rods sitting out on the floor. But, you'know, 9 what we put in there is less than what he verbalized to ' 10 me. 11 Shipman:
.Okay, I know how you are, and I'm just trying to make' 12 -
sure we -- 13 Hairston: I wouldn't lead nobody, I just want to make sure we don't 14 make the operators look dumb. 15 Shipman: Okay. All right. 16 Hairston: Of course, they'd probably say "that's just what the r 17 shift supervisor told me to do." 18 Shipman: Let's see. What other questions do we got? We got the 19 start thing straightened out. 20 Stringfellow: The other question we had Bill, was the -- 21 Hairston: (Interrupting.) We got the starts --
- 22
[ Disputed Portion of Tape] 23 GPC Version [ Note: A Secondary Conversation Takes Place Simultaneous 24 To The Primary Conversation.) 25-1 t m-- 1-.. .y ,, , .v , . _ . _ . . _ , , , , ,
12 1 Primary secondary 2 Voice: so we didn't have no,
\
3 didn't have no trips? !
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4 Voice: No, not, not . . . Voice It seems possible l 5 i [ inaudible). l 1 l 1 7 \ Voice: [ Inaudible). i 8 shipman: What else do we have, l 9 Jack? 10 Voice Rave a copy of the 11 comments? 12 - l Voice: Yes, and he's read ! 13 I it. l 14 stringfellows 08:57 CST. l 15 shipman Oh, yeah. Voice We'll have it 16 okay. The other problem [ inaudible). 17 we got that we got to 18 wrestle with is the time 19 of the -- when the Voice: [ Inaudible.) 20 notification began. We say voices [ Inaudible.) 21 the emergency director voice: [ Inaudible) that 22 signed the notification form they [ inaudible) 23 used to inform off-site 24 government agencias of the - 25 cuergency at 08:48 central 26 staddard time .and notifica-27 tions began at 08:57, voices so must have been l l
w I 13 1 'and Mr. Rairston's question 2' is what happened between Voice Yeah, (inaudible] ' 3 Sees and 8:577 What -- models [ inaudible). 4 does the word " began" mean? '; 5 Is that where he picked up 6 the ENN and found out it was 7 disabled or is that -- 8 Bockhold: That's the time that the south 9 Carolina communicator logged 10 the receipt of an incoming 11 i message from Plant Vogtle. Voice (Inaudible.) ! 12 RRC Version 13 Emirstons so we didn't have no, 14 didn't have no trips? 15 shipman: No, not, not . .. 16 McCoys (Inaudible) three. I'll testify to that. 17 shipman [ Inaudible] disavow. What else do we have, Jack? 18 McCoys l (Inaudible.) 19 Voice Does he have a copy? 20 Voice Yes, he's read it. 21 Stringfellow: (Inaudible) 08:57 CST. 22 shipman Oh, yeah. okay. The other problem we got that we got to 33 wrestle with is the time of the -- when the notification 24 began. We say the emergency director signed the ; 25 notification form used to inform off-site government 26 agencies of the energency at 08:4s central standard time 27 and notifications began at 08:57, and Mr. Emirston's
- - . . -. ~. - - - . - . . - - =--
14 1 question is what happened between 3:4s and 8:577 What -- 2 does the word " began" mean? Is that where he picked up 3 the ENN and found out it was disabled or is that -- 4 Bockhold That's the time that the south carolina communicator 5 logged the receipt of an incoming message from Plant 6 Vogtle. i 1 7 Intervenor Version 8 Mairstons so we didn't have no, 1 9 didn't have no trips? ! 10 shipman No, not, not . .. 11 McCoy Let me explain. I'll testify to that. 12 . shipman: Disavow. What else do we have, Jack? 13 McCoys I have Pat, ah, comments. 14 Emirston Yes, he's read it. l 15 stringfellow: [ Inaudible] 08:57 cs?. 16 shipman Oh, yeah. Okay. The other problem we got that we got to 17 wrestle with is the time of the -- when the notification 18 began. We say the emergency director signed the l 19 notification form used to inform off-site government 20 agencies of the emergency at 08:48 central standard time l 21 and notifications began at 08:57, and Mr. Emirston's l 22 question is what happened between 8:48 and 8:577 What -- 1 23 does the word " began" mean? Is that where he picked up 84 the ENN and found out it was disabled or is that -- ; 25 Bockho16: I That's the time that the south Carolina communicator i 4 26 logged the receipt of an incoming message from Plant ! l 27 Vogtle.
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15 l 1- [End Disputed Portion of Tape) 2 [ Background conversation Going on At same Time Mr. 3 Hairston Is Speaking.) 4 .Hairston: All right, let me tell you -- why I asked the question? 5 You know, what -- you have a picture in your mind of the 6 shift clerk trying to pick up the ENN, and its dead. Do ' 7 you know what I mean? 8 Bockhold: Yeah. 9 Hairston: And then she, or whoever made the decision to start with 10 the backup [ inaudible). Now, so, the way it looks, if we 11 can say that you signed the form and then a minute later 12 , or for several minutes an attempt was made to make a 13 , notification. That the ENN was noted to be without power-14 at 8:57, or whenever it was, South Carolina was notified 15 or initiated at 8:57 on the backup ENN, it just reads 16 better. You know what I mean? It looks like -- 17 Bockhold: That's fine. That's what happened. Yeah, you know -- - 18 Hairston: Well, you and Bill draft up some words to that effect 19 right in there, because that fills in some blanks. It i 20 looks good up to you signing the form, and then there's 21 like 15 minutes. 22 Bockhold: Actually, it's John Hopkins who signed the form because-- [ 23 Hairston: Hopkins? But then it looks like just nothing went on, 24 and you know something went on. 29 Bockhold: Well, she tried to get people and then' she couldn't get 26 people, so then went over to the backup ENN and started
'7 a roll call, but the roll call really wasn't complete <s,-. - , , _ _ . , . . , , _ . . _ , . . . ,
. i.
16; 1 because the South Carolina people, the first time they 2 logged it on their log was, you know, 57, and a couple of 3 people logged that consistently as the time'-- that, 4 that's the time that the critique team went ahead and 5 decided was probably the most reliable time that the 6 message was starting to come out. 7 Shipman: Okay. George, do you-have a copy of -- John -- anybody, l 8 a copy of the LER there? I 9 Aufdenkampe: I have a copy of the LER here. 10 Shipman: [ Noise.) l Hello. Why don't you give it to George and 11 let's word engineer this phrase to take care of the 12 - concern that Mr. Hairston had. 13 Bockhold: Let's do it right now and simply say that -- add a 14 sentence that says the, the shift clerk went to the 15 primary ENN, and it had lost power, had to go to the 16 back-up ENN, conduct a roll call before the initial 17 message was started at (inaudible) 9:57. 18 (Pause.) 19 Bockhold: Did you get that Bill? 20 shipman: Yes. I'm trying to write so I can read it back. 21 (Pause.) 22 Aufdenkampe: How do we think we're doing on this critique? Did we do 23 a lot of things wrong? I. 24 Webb: Well, we really haven't said we've'done anything. ' 25 shipman: Okay. Now, let me -- I got everything but the last 26 phrase. I wanna read it to you. "The shift clerk went 27 into the primary ENN and found it had lost power. The I
17 1 shift clirk then went to the backup ENN and' initiated 2 notification," and I need the last phrase to that. 3 Bockhold: Initiated-notification after roll call. 4 shipman: After roll call . . . I 5 Bockhold: At whatever time. You use an Eastern time in there, so 6 it would be 9:57. I 7 shipman: okay. 8 Aufdenkampe: The LER had Central time in it. 9 Shipman: So we got 8:57 Central Standard Time. okay. I think -- 10 that may not be the exact phrasing that comes out, but , 11 that's the data you think we need to put in there and ' 12 . we'll get that data, that sense in there for sure. Okay. 13 Anything else, Jack? Anything else that I need to get 14 Mr. Bockhold -- 15 Stringfellow: Okay. We got the thing about, we got the thing about 16 what the operator saw when he got in there. 17 Shipman: -- the diesel starts. We got the time . .. 18 Stringfellow: I We got the 08:57, we got that straightensd out. I can't l 19 think of anything else. 20 shipman: George, I don't think we have anything else at this red 21 hot minute. s 22 Aufdenkampe: Hey, Bill. 23 shipman: Yeah. I i 24 Aufdenkaspe: This is John. Are these all the changes that we're going 25 to make, because I don't think there's anything 26 substantial that needs a PRB. 27 Shipman: I won't make that guarantee, John.
. l l 18 ! 1 Aufdenkampe: Okay. So I need to keep somebody on standby to do that. Shipman: 1 2 Yes, sir. You sure do. ' 3 Aufdenkampe: Okay, I'll have whoever is going to be on standby give i l 4 Jack a call in case, you know, this drags on till 7:00 or ! 5 8:00 at night or something like that. l 6 Shipman: But it's not going to drag on that long. : 7 McCoy: We'll be done with it in about 30 minutes with the 8 changes, and we'll call you back and let you know and you 9 can make a judgment on whether you have to go back to the ) 10 PRB. l 11 Aufdenkampe: Okay. That's fine. ' 12 Bockhold: Hey, Bill? ' 13 Shipman: Yes, sir. 14 Bockhold: You know my afternoon plans, so I need to run. 15 Shipman: All right. i Well, John, Al, could one of you give us just ! 16 a 30 second update on where we are with the test? 17 Bockhold: I spoke to the control room, and they were about to close 18 the breaker, and so the test was proceeding. 19 Mosbaugh: I think that's been done at 1800 RPMs and they had gotten 20 the negative sequence. They were exciting, using the al temporary excitation equipment and they had gotten up to 22 like -- I think it was like two-and-a-half negative 23 sequence, and everything was going fine. 24 McCoy: Have we seen any -- l 25 Mosbaugh: No anomalies? 26 McCoy: No anomalies yet? 1
19 1 Mosbaugh: No anomalies, and they're going to do a little more 2 excitation, and then they take the machine up to a higher 3 RPM. 4 Shipman: Okay. Thanks, Allen. 5 Aufdenkampe: Okay. Jack, you're going to call me? 6 Shipman: Yoah. Okay. Bye, folks. 7 Voice: Bye. 8 Shipman: Goodbye, George. 9 (Pause) 10 (Marginalia: " Performance Report") 11 Voice: It sounds like he's [ inaudible). 12 _ Voice: (Inaudible.) 13 Minyard: (Inaudible), it will be lost forever. 14 Mosbaugh: Why? 15 Minyard: Stephanie will not go to the airport and pick it up. It 16 will sit there forever. 17 Voice: (Inaudible.) 18 Aufdenkampe: Why don't we just fax it up to her? 19 Minyard: If you'd like us to modem it and fax the cover sheet. 20 Voice: (Inaudible.) 21 Minyard: If I moden her just [ inaudible) letter, sure. 22 Aufdenkampe: You know, we can -- she can start working on it. 23 Whatever she has to do with it, we can fax it up to her. 24 Voice: (Inaudible) 25 Williams: There's a cover letter on it. 26 Aufdenkampe: What day does she have to send it out? 27 Minyard: It's supposed to be at McCoy's tomorrow.
20 1 Williams: If we Delta Dash it out tomorrow morning after it's 2_- signed, it will get there tomorrow afternoon. She can 3 put her letter on it and get it to (inaudible). 4 Minyard: Stephanie says she will not get it at the airport because 5 its our problem we can't get it out earlier. 6 Williams: [ Inaudible) get all the information, and send it out 7 without all the information. 8 Aufdenkampe: Yes. What is this? 9 Williams: We can't get cents per kilowatt. 10 Minyard: They don't know how to calculate for kilowatt. 11 Williams: They don't know how to calculate for kilowatt for either - 12 - one. 13 Aufdenkampe: Why, because its infinite? - 14 Williams: Well, for the month of March. 15 Minyard: And they can't start -- they haven't decided how they're 16 going to account for the break in the cycles and where. 17 the time in between cycles -- 18 Aufdenkampe: Okay. An I going to get in the (expletive) over this one 19 now, too? 20 Williams: Why? 21 Voice: I don't know. I just [ inaudible.) 22 Voice: The more reason Stephanie won't go to the airport. 23 Voice: Hey. t 24 Voice: Hey. 25 Aufdenkampe: can you find a way home? 26 Burwinkle: Not thirteen minutes after everybody's left. I'll try. , 27 Aufdenkampe: I'll be able to leave in a half-an-hour.
l 21 1 Burwinkle: Do you got some emergency going on? -{ 2 'Aufdenkampe: No. I just have to sit here for a half-an-hour as 3 punishment for crimes in a previous life, is really all 4 I can figure. Is that~a good assessment, Allen? S' Williams: Hey, he's getting off light. You're getting off light. 6 Mosbaugh: Where's the other control for the . . . 7 Aufdenkampe: How's that? 8 Burwinkle: Have you guys figured out how come the diesel starts when 9 it ain't supposed to? 10 Aufdenkampe: No. I'm trying to figure out how many times the diesel
'll started, but that's, that's irrelevant, too. It's just 12 -
that corporate's reviewing the LER on the Site Area 13 Emergency, and I got to tell them whether we need to take 14 it back through the PRB. And I've already determined, 15 regardless of what they change, it doesn't need to go 16 back to PRB, but I can't tell them that until after the 17 fact, and they're going to call me in a half-an-hour. I 18 told you its for crimes in.a previous life. I would have L 19 tried to call you, but I've been talking to some guy 20 named Bockhold and -- what's that guy's name? Hairston 21 and McCoy and Shipman for the'last 35 minutes. 22 Burwinkle: All right. 23 Aufdenkampe: Sorry. 24 Burvinkle: I'll call you back, bye. 25 (Noise. Phone Rings.) 26 (Background Noise; Inaudible Voices.) 7 (JGA Listens To His Voice Mail.)
22 1 (Pause.) 2 Aufdenkampe: I'm trying to get through. 3 Williams: (Inaudible.] 4 (Aufdenkampe Calls His Home.) 5 Aufdenkampe: Hello. What are you guys doing? Is your Mon there? 6 I've not left yet. It will probably be a half-hour 7 before I can get out of here. Anything going on? 8 (Inaudible conversation. Mr Aufdenkampe speaks with his 9 daughter, Sarah.) 10 (Walking Sounds. Break in taping.) 11 shipman: -- and that they should not be included because they were 12 , part of the return to service of the diesel coming out of 13 the overhaul, and this count only included those starts 14 after we had calibrated all these sensors. John, you 15 heard George Bockhold's logic. 16 Mosbaugh: Yes, so, but what I'm is, let's say we had ten starts on i the machine between the 20th and the time we declared it 18 operable or completed our logic testing, you know, and- ' 19 then interspersed in there on the -- maybe the third, 20 fifth and sixth starts -- 21 shipman: We would discount any failures. 22 Mosbaugh: -- were failures, you know, then I think what we're 23 saying is we would start counting at the ten point, if 24 that was an example. 25 Shipman: Right. We would discount those starts prior to when we 26 did that calibration.
23 I
.1 Mosbaugh: So we want to start it after we completed.the logic, the 1 2 logic test? i 3 Shipman: The -- what I understood that George had done was started ,
4 after we completed the recalibration of all the 5 instrumentation. That's when we ought to have, you know, 6 as far as our instrumentation is concerned, that's when 7 we ought' to have had valid set points and good 8 instruments. That's what we're trying to show, that the - i 9 unit starts -- when that's been done correctly, that the 10 unit starts reliably, starts and runs reliably. Does 11 that make sense, and can we get to that data? 12 Mosbaugh: We have the data. The question is, is what's that date 13 and time? (Laughing) What -- what, as soon as we get to 14 the point at which we want to start counting, we can get 4 15 the count pretty quick. 16 Aufdenkampe: Well, not pretty quick, but -- l j 17 Shipman: How do we get to that point, Al? 18 Mosbaugh: Well, you know what? I can tell you that the thing we 19 did is we went in and, you know, we changed out a bunch 20 of switches, we went in and then did logic tests, we went 21 into the undervoltage tests', and then we finally ran the 22 surveillance on the machine, and at that point that we 23 completed the surveillance on the machine, we called the 24 machine operable. You know, . . . so the question again 25 comes back to at what point are we going to start ! 26 counting? l l
l 24 ' 1 shipman: Well, George said he started counting after we had 3 2 completed the instrumentation recalibration, okay? Soj 3 that's one point we can start counting, if we can define 4 that point. I can't define it. -I don't, you know, I l 5 don't know when that was. Somebody generated this set of i I 6 data that generated the numbers 18'and 19 to George on i 7 that basis. 8 Aufdenkampe: That was Jimmy Paul Cash, 9 Mosbaugh: Jimmy Paul did. t Let me go downstairs and talk to Jimmy 10 ! Paul and see -- , 11 Aufdenkampe: Okay. i I'm trying to get Swartzwelder up here. l 12 4(osbaugh: Swaruzwalder? Okay. 13 shipman: Okay. One other thing we could do, A1, you know, saying ! 14 we still continue to have problems with trying to define 15 this. We could back away from this completely, and 16 change this to say how many starts we've had since we 17 declared the diesel operable. 18 Mosbaugh: Yes, that -- 19 Aufdenkampe: That would be more -- ! 20 Mosbaugh: That's easy to define. We just go into OPS LCO's and i 21 ! find out when they cleared the LCO and we'll know that ' 22 point real easy. That's an easy point to find. I think l 23 the other point we'll have to find by talking to Jimmy l 24 Paul Cash. 25 Shipman: The problem with that is that that number is going to be 26 significantly less, I think, than what George told 27 Mr. Ebneter, and, you know, it's going to create a 1
, <,,-,n,. - - - - - - - - - - , - ,
j 25
.1 selling job for me, I think, but -- if that's the only I 2
way we can tell a valid story that, you know,.we can s 3 defend if somebody calls Allen Mosbaugh, Bill Shipman and 4 Johri Aufdenkampe to testify, that's the story I want to 5 tell. 6 Mosbaugh: Well, I think -- you know, let me -- let me, let me try ' 7 some logic here. We have these two failures, and now 8 John says there are three failures. You know, we're kind 9 of saying, hey, those are not valid failures, you know, ' 10 because we were coming out of maintenance an the machine , 11 and'had yet to declare it operable. You know, that's how 12 . and why we're discounting those failures. 13 Shipman: So we had yet to, to, to determine that coming out of an 14 outage on the machine, we had to go and basically do a 15 : complete set of recalibrations of the instruments. That ! 16 I was the logic that George used, not that, not that we ' 17 were declaring it operable, because we obviously hadn't ^ 18 declared it operable. 19 Mosbaugh: ! Well, one of those failures was when we were doing the, l 20 you know, an eight-hour loaded run. I would sure hope to J 21 hell think that we had calibrated the instruments before 22 we did an eight-hour loaded run. 23 Shipman: Well, not according to George. We hadn't recognized the j 24 need to go back and redo all those things. Is that not 25 what he said John Aufdenkampe? 26 Aufdenkampe: That's what I understood. l
t s
* ~
26 1 Mosbaught I'm just thinking from the standpoint of testing logic. 2 You know, you're going to do an eight-hour loaded run on 3 i the machine, you know, obviously the component testing 4 ought to be done at that point. 5 shipr.an: Well obv . . .
, you know, on 1A obviously we thought we 6
had done everything we needed when we returned it to 7 service. 8 Aufdenkampe: It was operable. 9 Mosbaugh: Yeah. It was declared operable.
- 10 Shipman: We found out that we hadn't, and George is saying, oh , .
11 oh, hey, gang, from the time we realized that 1A or 18, 4 12 - we had to do a complete recalibration and make sure we 13 had our facts together on all the instruments, .we had 14 many many starts. I'm trying to, I'm trying to defend 15 George and -- 16 Aufdenkampe: Well, you know, the bottom line is on the B diesel, we 17 had done major maintenance on it. We were in the process 18 of testing to, making sure it was working right. During 19 that testing process, we had it fall apparently three 20 times. Once we got all the bugs worked out of it -- 21 since the point we got all the bugs worked out of it that 22 we've had -- we had -- and I'm kind of guessing, but uh, 23 27 starts, because I don't know where the three failures 24 are in the sequence of 27 starts, but we had X number of 25 starts. And George's argument to that is, after we got , 26 all the bugs worked out, we had 18 starts. l l 1 i l
- ... ~_ . -- . . _ . . _ _ ~
27 1 Shipman: What he's trying to do is he's trying to show.by data 2 that once you get the bugs worked out, like you say, 3 John, the diesel works fine. 4 Aufdenkampe: That's right. And that's regardless of the point of I 5 declaration of operability or not. 6 Shipman: Fine. Right. 7 Aufdenkampe: You know, I think what we discussed on how to handle 8 the number of actual diesel starts, those, how we 9 discussed that before, I think we ought to just leave it 10 at.that. 11 Shipman: Just say at least 18 times each, huh? 12 ,Aufdenkampe: Yeah. 13 Shipman: Okay. 14 Aufdenkampe: I mean, that, that, that -- somebody has gone and 15 validated that data, and that's what George presented. 16 The data that's been offered to us does not bring into 17 question that data. 18 Shipman: Okay. 19 Aufdenkampe: It tends to support that data. Would you take exception 20 to that Allen? 21 Shipman: We're going to go with that. Jack Stringfellow's just 22 grinning from ear to ear. 23 Aufdenkampe: The only issue is, we can't let people be misled, to 24 think that there were not failures until we started doing 25 that count. 26 shipman: And we say that -- we say "Af ter the 3-20-90 event, that 27 the control system with both engines have been subjected
p 28 1 to-the comprehensive test program. Subsequent to this l 2 test program, diesel generator 1A and 1B have been ! 3 started at least 18 -times each, and no failures or 4 problems have occurred during any of these starts." , 5 'Mosbaugh: When you read it that way to me, Bill, when- you talk 6 about the comprehensive test program, you know, I kind of. l 7 set the philosophy for that down here, is that we would 8 have a test program to, you know, determine root cause 9 and restore operability, and, uh, you know, that kind of 10 sounds like what I talked about down here on our diesel 11 test program, i and it sounds like that is kind of , 12 . establishing the starting point, you know, at least at 13 .i the point in time after which we did the UV testing. 14 Shipman: Let me add one more additional fact in here that I think ! 15 will help us as we struggle with this to make sure we're 16 not trying to mislead somebody, at least the people we 17 most want not to mislead, and that's the Region II folks 18 and IIT team. Since we started discussing this issue, 19 some half hour ago or hour ago, whenever it was. Pat, 20 since we had an issue with this, not Pat, but Ken (McCoy) 21 went and called Ken Brockman -- 22 Voice: Yeah. 23 shipman: -- and talked to him about, you know, the numbers and 24 what the basis of the number was as George Bockhold 25 described it, and asked Ken if he understood that, you 26 know, and if they had understood that in Atlanta on that
29 , 1 basis, and Ken said, "Yes, absolutely we did, and also, 2 the ITT team understands that." 3 Aufdenkampe: There's no question, I think, that the IIT team 4 understands that. _ 5 Shipman: Which is the basis, as well. So from that sense, you 6 know, the people we're trying to tell understand the 7 basis for the number George presented, and we really 8 aren't changing George's number. 9 Aufdenkampe: Jim Swartzwalder just walked in, too. He's going to help 10 shed light on various things. 11 Shipman: Various things. 12 -Aufdenkampe: Because I'm not sure I can answer -- 13 Swartzwalder: Other things he doesn't want to shed any light on. 14 Shipman: Things he doesn't want to be quoted on, right? 15 Aufdenkampe: Other things that I'm in the dark -- 16 Swartzwelder: That's correct. 17 Aufdenkampe: That I'm in the dark on. 18 Voice: (Inaudible) 19 Voice: And I would never hear. 20 Shipman: Well, I don't know if -- 21 Aufdenkampe: I want to go over Pat Mcdonald's comments with him. 22 Shipman: Okay. 23 Aufdenkampe: Well -- 24 Shipman: You want to run back through them? 25 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. Let's just start at the beginning and -- because 26 you can go ahead and read him what you, how you rewrote 27 what the operator said.
30 1 Shipman: Okay. Well, let me start at the beginning with Pat's 2 comments -- 3 Mosbaugh: Do you have it? 4 Shipman: -- and the first one on the abstract -- 5 Voice: Not to look at. 1 6 Shipman: -- Jim, is very straightforward. Pat -- ) 7 Voice: Try to look at my copy. ! 8 shipman: -- picked up the fact that we called it the core instead 9 of the RCS. We got that corrected, John agreed that 10 we're really talking about the RCS. 11 Voice: Yes. That comment was discussed in there. 12 Swartzwalder: Well, we discussed it with respect to the analysis of the 13 event. 14 Voice: Yeah. We fixed it there. 15 Voice: Yes. 16 Voice: Well, we didn't fix it here. j 17 Swartzwalder: Okay. That's good. Yeah, that's good. 18 Aufdenkampe: Tell him we'll give him ~an 'at-a-boy for that. Tell Pat 19 we'll give him an 'at-a-boy for that one. l 20 Shipman: That's what I told George a while ago. That's what we 31 keep him around here for. The second place, Jim, that l l 22 ! Pat had a comment was on Description of Event, fourth. l 23 from the last paragraph, and I think this is one that we 1 24 didn't settle on a while ago, John, that we have to do l i 25 something with. The statement reads like this, and it's 26 really the last paragraph before this, and this one, too, 17 I think: "The only alarms noted by the control room I
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31 1
' operator assigned to diesel generator operation were lube 1
2 oil pressure . sensor malfunctioning, fuel oil level l 3- high/ low alarm." Pat's concern is we open an issue 4 there, and nowhere in the LER do we ever close it by 5 saying these were invalid alarms, they were sensor 6 failures, they were normal for the condition, you know. l 7 Swartzwalder: Where is that from? Bill, what paragraph are you in? 8 shipman: I'm in the fourth from the last, the bottom of the fourth 1 9 from the last paragraph under Description of Events. - 10 There is also a question at the bottom of the third I 11 i paragraph from the last one, the third paragraph from the - 1 12
- last.
13 Swartzwalder: Wait a minute. I think I see where you are now. Hold l 14 on. I 15 (Pause.] i 16 Swartzwalder: Okay. And the concorra s a never closed that up
)
17 anywhere? Is that what the - 18 shipman: Right. We just, we just, you know, opened up something 19 the guy saw, and we never say whether it was valid, ! 20 invalid, or important, not important, you know. It's 21 just left hanging. 22 Swartzwelder: You're right. 23- Shipman: No corrective actions dealing with it you know. ! 24 (Rustling Noise; Break In Taping.] 1 25 Shipman: . .
. 20-90 event (Reading) "the control system to both 26 diesels have been subjected to a comprehensive test 7 program," period. " Subsequent to this test program,
'e : 32
'l Diesel Generator 1A and Diesel Generator 1B have been H 2-started at le::t 18 times each, and no failures or 3
problems nave occurred with any of these starts," period. 4 John can walk you through all of the discussion. I just j t 5 don't think I want to go through it all again. l 1 6 Aufdenkampe: Well, why not, Bill? 7 Shipman: I've been around that tree so many times today. 8 Aufdenkampe: All right. It's getting soggy around there. 9 Shipman: It sure is. 10 Aufdenkampe: Okay. 11 Shipman: Okay, fellows. I appreciate you all's helping. Hang 12 - with us on this. I think I said earlier that the thing 13 has such a political impact that Ken and Pat and George 14 all wanted to fine-tune it for technical as well as 15 political implications. 16 Swartzwalder: Yes. It reads somewhat like we might be sending a direct 17 copy to the Governor. 18 shipman: Well, and probably to the Secretary of Energy and -- 19 Swartzwalder: I understand. 20 Shipman: -- a few other people. 21 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. I got a call from some guy named Bush that lives 22 in the White House. He wanted me to fax him a copy. 23 Shipman: I never told you all this, but the day of the incident, 24 and five different times since then, I've gotten a call 25 from a fellow named Dick Olde, who works for a guy who 26 works for the Secretary of Energy Watkins, 17 Swartzwalder: Is that right?
4 1- Shipman: Yes, and he was just enraged by the press that we got. 2 I mean, he just was literally livid that they were 3 reporting it the way they were. 4 Aufdenkampe: Bill, unless you tell me different, I'm going to let my 5 PRB people go home. 6 Shipman: They are. You've heard all the changes we were going to 7 make, unless you feel like we need to review them, I 8 certainly don't. 9 Aufdenkampe: No. No. 10 Shipman: We will get this printed up and signed out of here and 11 we'll telex you a copy down. 12 Aufdenkampe: Okay. Thanks a lot. 13 Shipman: Thank you. Jim, let me just . . . Why don't you just 14 hang on, and I'll let you talk to Ken. 15 3rartzwelder: I'll walk downstairs and call him. 16 Shipman: Okay. 17 Swartzwelder: All right. Bye-bye. 18 Voice: I get four. This is unclear. 19 Voice: (Inaudible) 20 Swartzwalder: I don't have the faintest idea. 21 Voice: This is a no smoking room. 22 Voice: Gh, good. 23 Voice: I'll agree to anything. Sure. Sure. 24 [ concurrent Laughter.) 25 Mosbaugh: Jim, Jim, Jim. > 26 Voice: No. Don't tell me. 7 Swartzwelder: I tripped the diesel myself --
l l l 34 ; 1 Voice: No. Don't tell me about the fact that the company policy ,
'2 has now been. changed.
3 Mosbaugh:. No, I'm not talking about smoking at all. Jimmy Paul 4 supposedly counted these starts for George, and then he ' 5 provided the information that George took to the 6 presentation in Atlanta. Do you know how he counted then 7 or where he started? 4 l 8 Swartzwelder: No, but he's still here. 9 Mosbaugh: Okay. 10 Swartzwalder: Cathy was to . . . whenever I got here, he was still 11 here. (Inaudible.) 12 Igosbaugh: I'll try to get him. 13 Swartzwalder: 67 is his beeper. 14 Aufdenkampe: (Talking On The Phone.) I'm leaving now. Okay, bye. 15 Voice: [ Inaudible.) 16 Mosbaugh: I can't find enough starts so far. 17 Aufdenkampe: Can you find 18? 18 Mosbaugh: No. Not even close . . . 19 Aufdenkampe: Odom got this. 20 Mosbaugh: I'm not sure when he started. 21 Aufdenkampe: He started March 20th. ' 22 Mosbaugh: Oh, sure, sure, if you start March 20th. But, their 23 words say it completed a comprehensive test program. 24 Aufdenkampe: . George said the comprehensive test program ended after 25 the third trip. 26 Mosbaugh: Well, that's bull (expletive). The undervoltage testing l l 17 and all that is all part of the comprehensive -- l l l
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35 , 1 certainly the undervoltage testing is part of the . 2 comprehensive test program, right? 3 Aufdenkampe: on Unit 27 on Unit B? - 4 Mosbaugh: on the B unit, the undervoltage testing is certainly part 5 of the comprehensive test program. 6 Aufdenkampe: I don't know, Allen. i 7 Mosbaugh: Well, (expletive), it was part of the test program that - 8 we put in writing in the little schedule we gave to the 9 IIT. 10 Aufdenkampe: _I personally don't think it matters whether we put in 18 11 or 40. 12 1(osbaugh: I think it personally matters a (expletive) of a lot I 13 because you can't put false information in written 14 correspondence to the NRC. 15 Aufdenkampe: Well, in the -- well, I agree with that one. The reason ; 16 i I don't think it matters is because, regardless of how we l 17 put it in there, when they come and ask us questions 18 about it, we'll tell them this is what our basis for it 19 was. This is why we get 18. If they interpret it 20 differently, we're sorry. We'll send a rev out. You, 21 you don't agree with me on that. 22 Mosbaugh: I'm having trouble counting starts. I can't find very 23 many starts. l 24 Aufdenkampe: And I'm not talking wrong or right, (inaudible) I'm just I 25 talking practical. I The practical side of it is that 26 that's what will happen. 27 Mosbaugh: I can't find enough starts.
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36 1 Aufdenkampe: Its just like, you know. 2 Mosbaugh: I'm really having trouble finding starts, and maybe they 3 are not all logged here because -- 4 [ Marginalia:
" Tom Webb a odon was working on a list of starts.")
5 Aufdenkampe: They are all logged there. 6 Mosbaugh: They are all logged? There's Jimmy. 7 Cash: (Inaudible.) I went through the log book page by page. 8 Mosbaugh: When did you start? Where did you start at? 9 Cash: When did I start what? 10 Mosbaugh: You've got the information -- 11 Aufdenkampe: You told George about the failures, right? You gave him
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12 failures as well as valid starts. 13 Cash: I gave him every one that we -- every start that we have 14 done. 15 Aufdenkampe: You took one, it started, it failed. Two, it started and 16 passed. Three, it started and failed. Four, started and ' 17 passed. Is that how you gave it to him, or did you just l 18 give him totals. 19 Cash: Totals. 20 Aufdenkampe: You told him there were 20 valid starts. Are there 20 21 starts, three failures? 22 Cash: I'm not sure if I found the failures or not. 23 Aufdenkampe: George was aware of the failures is what he told Shipman 24 on the phone. 25 Mosbaugh: The information George presented when he was in Atlanta-- 26 Cash: Right. 7 Mosbaugh: -- okay, --
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- 1. Cash: Right.
. '2 Mosbaugh: -- you got some information together for him. i 3 Cash: Right. 4 Mosbaugh: When did you start counting and what did you count? 5 Cash: 3-20. ' 6 Mosbaugh: You started on 3-207 7 Cash: Right.- For'1A diesel, the total numbers included, the ' 8 three maintenance starts that we did the night of 3-20. 9: Mosbaugh: Okay. 10 cash: out of service, I can't count. 11 Mosbaugh: Okay. And for the B machine -- 12 Cash: Everything -- well, it was out of service then. 13 Mosbaugh: Again, every start from the very beginning? 14 Cash: Right. [ Inaudible) 15 Mosbaugh: Okay. 16 Aufdenkampe: So, you know. ' 17 Mosbaugh: And so as of that date 2nd for that presentation, then, ' 18 those were the -- 19 Cash: But not as of the date now. I 20 Mosbaugh: Yeah. Those were the 18 and 19 as of the date that 21 George precented it. 22 Cash: Right. 23 Mosbaugh: Okay. Some of those starts resulted in a failure. 24 Aufdenkampe: You didn't count the failure, though. 25 Cash: Uh-uh. i 26 Aufdenkampe: i The bottom line, Allen, is what we wrote in this LER just 27 now, the comprehensive, the comprehensive test program is
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e 38 1 not defined, but basically you have to assume that if 2 George, and George told Shipman that it started after the 3 third failure. Now, if you disagree with that--- l 4 Cash: The third failure? 1 l 5 voice: The third failure? -l 6 Aufdenkampe: The third failure. 7 Mosbaugh: I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with anyone. I'm just l 8 trying to find out what's been done. It's . . . 9 Aufdenkampe: Well, that's where the numbers, that's where the numbers 10 come from. 11 Cash: . . . failures . . . 12 Mosbaugh: It sounds like Jimmy counted everything starting from the 13 20th. 14 Aufdenkampe: That's what Odom did. 15 Hosbaugh: Okay. 16 Cash: You guys come up with different numbers or something? 17 Mosbaugh: No. Odom counted up to present, and you counted up to 18 the -- 19 Aufdenkampe: [Imaudible] because you counted up to present at the time 20 you did it. 21 Mosbaugh: Up to the 9th, or so, at the time you did it. But you -- 22 Cash: What did Rick come up with? 23 Aufdenkampe: Twenty-seven and 38, or something like that. , 24 Cash: We've been running the hell out of those diesels. ; 25 f Mosbaugh: Oh, yeah. j 26 Voice: Okay. l t
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39 1 Cash: We're going to run them into the dirt is what we're going ' 2 to do. (Laughing.) 3 Voice: (Inaudible.] 4 -Aufdenkampe: Where do you want to go with this Allen _? 5 Mosbaugh: There's no place to go with it. We have already -- ' 6 Hairston has already submitted a letter stating the same ; 7 thing the LER states. Right? 8 Aufdenkampe: Yeah. 9 Mosbaugh: All we did is state the same thing in this LER that 10 Hairston already stated in the letter.
- 11 Aufdenkampe
- And George has an argument on why that's correct.
12 Mosbaugh: And that's the same thing that George presented at the 13 meeting. 14 Aufdenkampe: George has an argument on why that is correct, and Ken 15 McCoy called and said, you know, called Brockman, and , 16 Brockman understood what that meant. 17 Voice: Do you want them? 18 (Pause.) 19 Aufdenkampe: Do you need anything from me before I leave? 20 Voice: [ Inaudible.) 21 Mosbaugh: No. 22 Aufdenkampe: Do you want to buy another bunch of bingo tickets? , 23 Mosbaugh: I don't know how many I bought. 24 (Laughter.] ' 25 Mosbaugh: one? That's probably enough, isn't it? Enough to win, 26 right? Is that enough to win? 27 Aufdenkampe: I imagine that's really encugh to win. l i
40 1 Mosbaugh: Okay. i 2 (Break In Taping.) 3 Voice: (Inaudible) right now? 4 Voice: [ Inaudible.) 5 Voice: Oh, okay. 6 Swartzwelder: Yeah. It is Saturday night and I'll even reconfirm that, 7 if they want me to. 8 Voice: No, that's okay. 9 Swartzwelder: All right. 10 Voice: Okay. Bye. 11 Swartzwalder: Bye-bye. 12 Mosbaugh: Not more INPO. 13 Swartzwelder: No. He just was wondering when (inaudible). 14 Voice: Same old . . . 15 Mosbaugh: How's the turbine test going? Have any idea? 16 Swartzwalder: Yes, they were -- when I came [ inaudible), I was down in 17 (inaudible) and John's office. They were on their way to , 18 100 RPM from 1800. 19 Mosbaugh: They did the 1800 test, and they excited, and they did a 20 couple percent of negative sequence, and had all of the 21 data is what I heard. 22 Swartzwelder: Yeah. I think the bulk of the testing actually -- the l 23 testing -- I think they were just doing minor testing at 24 1800. The bulk of the testing is the ramp up with a max 25 negative, 1 l I i
l 41 1 Mosbaugh: Yeah. They had gone to like one -- two-and-a-half 2 percent negative sequence current, or something like { 3 that, at 1800. 1 4 Swartzwelder: I thought they went to 5%. 1 1 5 Mosbaugh: Yeah. Well, when I talked to them last, they had done 6 two-and-a-half percent, and then I guess they were 7 i ramping that up to like five percent, and then what do we 8 do? Then we come back to 100 and do five percent all the 9 ! way up, or something like that? l 10 Swartzwalder: I'm not sure five percent is -- I j 11 Mosbaugh: or whatever the max is. ! i 12 Swartzwelder: As specified by maximum, you know, excitation. ! 13 Voice: Okay. 14 Swartzwalder: And then you come up to like 1925. 15 Voice: (Inaudible.) 16 Mosbaugh: Then they go to 1950 or 1925 or something. 17 Swartzwalder: Right. And then they start the 1900 to 1700 to 1900 to 1 18 I 1700 to 1900, and then they give up. [ Inaudible) look at 19 with that excitation. 20 Mosbaugh: Yeah. Okay. 21 Swartzwelder: I And then we go [ inaudible). ! 22 Mosbaugh: Good. Anything else? 23 Swartzwelder: It 's really going to be 12 hours? 24 Mosbaugh: I don't know. Horton didn't think it would. Horton 25 thought they would -- 26 Swartzwalder: 1 I don't think they will, either.
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42 1 Mosbaugh: Horton thought ' they'd get done quicker'that way. If 2 they're into it, and now it looks like they're into it, 3 and, you know, most of the problems we had were just ; 4 problems with running this turbine.' No, these weren't 5 really test problems; these were problems that we would ) 6 . experience tomorrow when we tried to do the turbine if.we l 7 hadn't done the test. t 8 Swartzwalder: Yeah. I think those (inaudible) minor incident is that 9 first (inaudible). . That was all -- 10 Mosbaugh: The neutral over-current was what was, I think, a test
- 11 condition issue, but Kerstians figured that out in a
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12 heartbeat. 13 Swartzwelder: But, otherwise, I think the vast majority (inaudible). 14 Mosbaugh: Oh, yes. obviously the pump problems and the valve 15 : problems, and the, those types of things. l l 16 Swartzwalder: The other one, I think, is one of the load. I could not : 17 see any progress on those. [ Inaudible.) We are working 18 on (inaudible). 19 Mosbaugh: Those are the same. Same status. Have we done anything 20 more with the gag? 21 Voice: No. 22 Mosbaugh: Okay. 23 Swartzwelder: (Inaudible) I'm just going to leave it in until 70 24 percent. 25 Mosbaugh: That's about all I had. I'm going to call the boys.in 26 Birmingham, and I'm going to leave. 27 Swartzwelder: Who do you call, Paul? l i
e 43 1 Mosbaugh: Yes. It's been Shipman, but now -- now its back to Paul. 2 The start. We don't know kny more about the start? 3 Swartzwalder: Diesel start?
- 4. Mosbaugh: Yeah.
5 Voice: Well -- 6 Mosbaugh: Oh, I have that. 7 Voice: You do? 8 Mosbaugh: I already have that. 9 Swartzwalder: You're not copied? ' 10 Mosbaugh: What? > 11 Swartzwelder: You're not a copy? 12 Mosbaugh: Right there. Nobody is copied. 13 Swartzwalder: I know. 14 Mosbaugh: That's why we make thousands of them. (Laughter.) 15 Mosbaugh: It doesn't say anything (inaudible). 16 Swartzwalder: All we really have determined is that its a test circuit l 17 problem that will not impact performance, which ie the 18 only thing I asked him to do [ inaudible). 19 (Pause.) l 20 Mosbaugh: Great. 21 Voice: (Inaudible) the only thing that deals with it. t 22 Voice: (Inaudible.) 23 voice: Do you (inaudible). 24 Voice: (Inaudible) negative phases such as grounding, and what 1 25 they're Lttempting to (inaudible). 26 Mosbaugh: They'ra testing to determine any degree of resonance that 27 we might have in the turbine due to our machine's ! l l
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44 1 configuration, and so they are exciting the system with 2 this negative sequence baloney, and then they're going to l 3 diiinnng the system with the out-of-phase 4 synchronization, okay? Basically what they're doing is 1 5 you got the big machine up there, and they're worried 6 ! about these last stage, end-bucket stress problems, okay? 7 What they're doing is they're essentially shaking the l 8 i machine electrically by negative phase sequence currents.. I 9 That's a steady-state test, okay? And then the out-of'- 10 phase synchronization is a dynamic ringing type test 11 where, you know -- you think of sor.ething mechanical and 12 - you're wondering if it's got some resonant vibration. 13 Well, you can put a shaker on it and shake it at I 14 different frequencies, you know, and different magnitudes 15 and see if you have a response, or you can whack it with 16 a hammer and see what kind of ringing frequencies, you 17 know, you get oe of it. That's basically what they're 18 doing. And then they're checking a series of frequency 19 range by varying the RPM of the machine, you know, over 20 certain ranges. So basically this is a vibrational test 21 using electrically-induced stimuli. Okay? They're i 22 testing for mechanical vibrations by inducing the 23 vibration electrically, and that's all they're doing. 24 Then they determine what the resonant ranges are, and if 25 we have resonant ranges and if we do, then General 26 Electric has various recommendations for detuning.
7 j 45 1 Swartzwalder: Now, I would assume, my guess is if the resonant range we 1 2 find is sufficiently away from normal operating speed, ! 3 nothing will have to be done. l 4 Mosbaugh: If it's more than two, plus or minus two hertz from 60, l 5 then there's nothing, okay? If it's like greater than l 4 { 6 one, plus or minus one, but less than two hertz, then 7 there's monitoring, ~ and if it's less than one, then i 8 there's physical changes, they'll recommend. That's kind I 9 of the guideline. 10 j 11
**END TAPE NO. 58, SIDE A -- SIDE B NOT RECORDED **
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