ML20106G398

Transcript from Confidential Source of Protective Coatings Inspectors Meeting During Wk Ending 830916

ML20106G398
Person / Time
Site:	Comanche Peak
Issue date:	09/27/1983
From:	TEXAS UTILITIES ELECTRIC CO. (TU ELECTRIC)
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ML20106G388	List: ML20106G398 ML20106G411
References
NUDOCS 8410310176
Download: ML20106G398 (15)

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September 27, 1983 TRANSCRIPT FROM A CONFIDENTIAL SOURCE OETAINED DURING WEEK ENDING' SEPTEMBER 16, 1983 TOLS0?): -I wanna try to resolve what I perceive to be a communication problem. The claim with us in the craft -unin'telligible- the account for the QC program is to

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report all riegative. results of inspections in protective coatings on Inspection

-Reports __ that's what we've tried to.say in this procedural maze, OK that's what I want. OK. I don't want to use NCRs in my department's report, "in the QC ranks," because what that creates for me from a managements' standpoint is a stop-work condition. And I know that neither one of us wanna make this kind of. .

decisions. That's what they pay me to do, OK. And for those of you that have been around here a while, should know Mr. -unintelligible, even though he's been in and out, will attest to the fact that if I need to I'll shut this entire,'

fuckin job down to get across -unintelligible- to record. It is not an easy decision to make, there's a lot of money at stake but if I have to make it, I will. Now, you guys are paid to communicate through channels to me what's going .

on. And we take a hard look at what's going on by analyzing the results of the inspections, OK. All right, now that's an ongoing thing that we look at all the time.and that's a part of Bob's job and part of Tom's job is to I guess

-unintelligible- things -unintelligible- is to continually look back and to see j what we can do to improve the -unintelligible-(loudnoises)ortheinspection , ],

effort to meet our ultimate objectives, which I've been talking about for a couple of weeks, which is to get -unintelligible- along correspondence to the Installation Department, cause that's why we're all here and that's what we're l all paid to be. Now, I guess my question to you in this group, and this groups

-been. selected as a sample of the inspection force on days.

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, .- 1 ITOL30N'S: Q.: What'in 'a procedural maze,'causes people to think that we're

~askir.g .them to write nonconformance . reports? -What .have we. fucked up in .our procedures that we would lead you to that?~JJIM?

A'. (SOURCE UNK.~) -

Ah, an NCR is'when the quality. is indeterminate it's warrante,d then and then you send it-on to engineering and then. . .

Je TOLSON'S INTERRUPTION: .In bringing back to where I started, INTERRUPTED COMMENT: (SOURCE UNK.) I t'hink i got it.

TOLSOM'S_ INTERRUPTION (Cont.): we wrote the program we thought we'd ge1[

in another. . . .

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LONG PERIOD WITH NOTHING RECORDED-------

s TOLSON: to get you to communicate to us to provide the inspection report. Now that's what we're really trying ,tcr do at this meeting. Frankly, that's what I'm

-trying to do with all of the inspection in the NON-ASME area, OK. I guess if any-folks decided to do it a little differently and before too long, they're going to do the same thing I'm doing. It's more efficient to do it that way and , ,

efficiency is one of the things'that I'm paid to lookout for, OK. Now, to me,

'it's a black and white situation that the paint either meets the spec or it

'doesn't meet the spec. I

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t can't. conceive ef[a situation getting underway, quote "that you want to call

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- indeterminate," and.even'then, the intent in the language -in the procedures is to

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get you- to- record that in.the Inspection, Reports.

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Q.-(SOURCE UNK.)'

And that's when, after the -unintelligible _

.c TOLSON'S A.: It doesn't matter when it happens, lDK, It really doesn't. I mea'n-that's what I'm trying to tell you, the _ procedure, now I'm trying to figure out-did.we not say that clearly enought where you could all understand what I'm saying.

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COMMENT: (SOURCE UNK.)

I don't see where an inspection report would handle every-situation.

ANOTHER's COMMENT: (SOURCE UNK.)

I don't either.

TOLSON: Let's talk about a few you've done then.

Q. (SOURCE UNK.)

What about for instance something that they coated a couple years ago and "you run across something-like the paint falling off the wall how would vou report that on an inspection report?

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,' :TO'LSON'S A: .

w I think_that it'sJnot perhaps. spelled'out in'as much_ detail as I could make it if.I had

to'but I~believe that I'm smart enough to~ figure out a way to communicats that.

1 Q'. ,(SOURCE UNK.)

-You mean just verbally?

TOLSON'S A.: No. We don't have a verbal program, we have a formal program and the vehicle .

1 is the Inspection-Report. . That's where I'm _ trying to get the group to, OK,- and that's why I'm asking, How do we get there? OK,- now if the : paint falls off the wall,- OK, I think

,there's enough attributes on the Inspection Report, the UNSAT and in the EE$ ARKS colum'ns to state where'the problem is.

- COMMENT: (SOURCE UNK.)

Yeah, that's what I'm saying, this took place a couple of years ago.

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TOLSON: It doesn't natter when it took place.

i Q. (SOURCE UNK.)

Well,;what if there is no Inspe'ction Report?

.TOLSON:

Huh?

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Q.EW211,, 'what ifithere is notLInspection Rdpoi't fo'r -that area?

~1-TOLSON:'There's an : Inspection Report for everything that 'you Ldo.

i COMMENT FROM SEVERAL OBSERVERS:-(SOURCES UNK;) # --

I think he's talking about a new. ~Make out.a new one. ,.

TOLSON: You .can do that Neil, but h, h, like a, you know,' in. ny judgement, it's

-not required, 0K. .

Even if you want to add another line on the attribute, if

-your more comfortable with'it from a communications standpoint, thatfis certainly- .

acceptable, OK. And I believe if you go back to-1800 that' covers the Inspection Report, that latitude is in there like we say something about Supplementary

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Sheets. and 'I can carry you back into civil records and show some luxurious-Llanguage that Mr. Britton used, OK. OK. See,:all I'm asking.is. communicate to ne what's going on, OK. Don't put yourself in my position and stop work, because I haven't delegated that authority,-OK. We're-just talking about paint, and don't -

confuse what I'm saying about paint with what we would do with equipment because it's a completely different element, OK. A completely different element. What we're talking about is protective coatings and the containment and the communication of some findings that need to be corrected to meet the requirements, 0K. -

That's all we're talking about. I've got another example. ,

SIMULTANEOUS GROUP INTERRUPTIONS (all unintelligible except, "I-thought we were here to communicate.")

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TOLSON: 4 T' hat's'what:we're-here for.  :,

Q.7(SOURCEUNK.-)

LI:still don't know the answer to_my. questions,-I'mean', How are we going-to report this:onL-an IR?

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.TOLSON:

Give'me an example?

1st PERSON's A. (SOURCE UNK.)

r - Well, the one I just used. .

A 2nd PERSON INTERRUPTED: (SOURCE UNK.)'

Let's just say your walking down the hallway and _

-1st PERSON INTERRUPTED: (SOURCE UNK.).

- Yeah, tha's what I'm sayin, just 2nd PERSON: (SOURCE UNK.). -

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And and you spot a place-you have some, you see where the paints gone.

Ist PERSON: (SOURCE UNK.)

. Right, ar.o 'it was' put on a- couple years ago.

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(OK, fine.

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2nd PERSON: '(SOURCEUNK) .

~An -t'o me, .which is what I'm sure 'Ron is trying- to. say is you get out. the :IR an'd-you isolate that area where the problem ~is, mark itunsat' in the remarks column and

-say the paint is coming off the wall-and.a-

Ist PERS0ti

(SOURCE UNK.-)

On the original IR that was generated at that

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2nd PERS0ti: (SOURCE UNK.)

-~Right, and'you generate it right then, you don't have to ~ generate-it back. Cause you see 2 years ago Don, they didn't have any -unintelligible several interrupted ~ at on:ee ;

l- 1st PERSON: (SOURCE UNK.) ,

l Right, that's what I was saying, they just wrote ' good

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Cause~we won't have any -unintelligible- What we need to do is write an IR right today.

TOLS0t!:

7 Let's not, let's not say we.didn't have any documentation. No documentation I

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c2nd PERSON:'(SOURCE'.UNK.). ,

Well, that was; a wrong statement, it was" there,E but

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TOLSON: . .-

, L$f t a -little bit to bei desired, 'that's an.. improper, way to phrase -it, OK.

4 1st PERSON: (SOURCE UNK.) -

'Withcut documentation, wouldn't that be determined ' indeterminate'?

TOLSON:

1(e determined that years ago Jce. That's the reason we set up the backfir- ,

.. inspection program, see.

1st PERSON: (SOURCE UNK.)

So you just go' back to that area.

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'TOLSON:

Sure,- that's what we're doin.

2nd PERSON: (SOURCE UNX.)

And then normal procedure, craft would come in.and take it off us.

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TOLSON:

Ok. That's all I'm tring to do. .There was an NCR issued when the~ lack of' documentation had covered the entire protected power plant. Ok,'I don't need anymore,Ialready[knowIgotaproblem. And that's.the reason we sat down and came up with the . concept of the backfit inspection, 0k, now that's history. New we're at a stage where we wanna make whatever the conditions are meet the

. requirements. See, we're in a fix-it mode, and don't got anything that is

. u indeterminate; everything out there is indeterminate until we finally get down to the ?SATs tning and buy-off on the -unintelligible , and that's the name of today's ballgame.

Q. 3ed PERSON

(SbURCEUNKNOWN) _- .

i Till the last document is up for ? we won't close out any NCR.

TOLSO:1:

Anything closed, OK. Now, take Joe's, Joe Davis?

A. PERSON: (SOURCE UNKNOWN)

Jchn Davis.

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TOLSON:

Take John's: example, ah, I feel like we have more 'than an ample nunb,er of inspectors, ok, but not so large of'a group-where we can't communicate with each cther in terms of what's ??? An what we're trying. to do, from a private

' management standpoint, is start at the top of the goddamn containment structure a

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fandl work our'w'ay' down. -unintel}igible 'thisl paint off the walls today at-

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elevation 810, it's 'still going 'to be there when we get down that low, ok. It

.ain't-goin anywhere, unless they can figure out.some way.* n1 -

i t up on the wall and ah ah, it's not.goin anywhere. So we're to tryin to come from top to bo't tom. If you concentrate our intelligence and efforts in that arena and don't

> worry about this shit tha't we have got to do, then we can manage to work together

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. and get.the job done, and I think'it'll make things a lot better, ok. And that's what I ask you to consider cause that's-what we're coming to from'the management's standpoint, ok. Now,- I think we're essentially complete with the fact that inspectors on the line are ???, at least that's my understanding.

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4th PERSON: (SOURCE UNKNOWN)

On small spot here.

TOLSON:

Where's the one small spot? ,

4th PERSON: (SOURCE UNKNOWN)

Oh it's over here (* squeaky noise is made - sounds like someone rubbing the spot on the. .. .

wall *) 995 -unintelligible- add'a little 28 to 43 I believe.

.Sth PERSON: (SOURCE UNKNOWN)

Glad it's not 268..

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-unintel_ligible LNever doneithat much _.__'. . laughter l'v'e done it three times

, laughter- -

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"TOLSON:

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'Ok,~all_right. -'

PERS0ri:'(SOURCE UNKNOWN)-

- -un intell.i gi bl e- We don't have- to be: over-here Well, there'sa spot in Ethe .

.c elevator, but I don't know when they're ever gonna shut .that down ~fo_r us to _get -

..in,there, so C

'TOLSON:

Where? , . [ '~

SEVERAL PERSONS: (SOURCES UNKNOWN)

' On the bottom. ,

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-unintelligible-TOLSON:

-Now, let's'go to' the other extreme. I don't want to blow your mind but I need to discuss it. Ah, Cory got to know me real well several months ago because one of

• his initial contributions was a generic NCR that he was personally concerned with, Ok; which we put it into the system, which we will always do, ok; and

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evaluate it, analyze it from an engineering standpoint and we decided we weren't concerned with Cory's original concern, ok. So, it.was put,to bed and I think 2

lthat ,Cory's accepted that, ok. He may, not agree with it, but that's not

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necessa ry. What.is important is that you accept.it, ok, becau. 'here's~other

? folks that are paid? to make those kind of decisions. I don't encourage those

. kind of . things, but I won't discourage it, ok. If you've genuinely convinced yourself= in your own mind that there might be a problem, then if you read between the lines in our Procedure Manual of what we're tellin ya, ok, it is that you have the authority.to issue those kinds of nonconformance reports, but you don't have the authority to stop work, ok; and that means that you don't

-unintelligible- a hold -unintelligible- on those kinds of situations, ok

.. .d because you haven't given me an opportunity to do my job yet and I think we do not have the ability-to -unintelligible-

,ok, and we have a communicative ... .

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PERS0ft: (SOURCE UflKNOWi!) , _: _

But it hadn't gotten to, it hadn't

-TOL50ti:

We hadn't communicated at that point, ok. Ah, if we don't have that option doin the 160 bond, don't even consider it because I'm tryin, I'm tryin to manage what Neil knows is a costly conflict between inspection and craft, ok. And I'm tryin to ao what I can to keep from getting you all from getting wound up in a conflict. Now, there's no reason to get yourself into that, that's, shit, life's -

too short-to come out here and ' spend 10 hours1.157407e-4 days <br />0.00278 hours <br />1.653439e-5 weeks <br />3.805e-6 months <br /> a day arguing with some miserable son of a bitch'about a fine detail that's really not too important one way or another, ok. And we have to appreciate what crafts problem is, ok, and I personally sympathize with them because I'm not sure I'm going to work on that side..of the house from a union standpoint because I don't like being too too

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? uncor.fortable.' Ah, you know those guys are uptight, damn it ah, I have to watch out for that.because ! don't want to put you all into the situation where we ah, semebody gets the shit kicked out of them or something like that. That's a dumb way to manace and I don't want you all doing this, it's not worth it.

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Q'. (SOURCE UNKNOWN) Unclear I want to make a suggestion to QA. It's called a 2 points that might get into

.C something that you probably couldn't, I don't know if you can or cannot answer -

the procedure to qualify -unintelligible- applicators shelf life if you want it to

-unintelligible- considered.

TOLSON:

You nean on a nonconforcance report?

A. (SOURCE Ut:KNOWN) - unclear I believe that's the only thing that basically uses it.

TOLSON: -

I wouldn't recommend to anybody to go and put a hold tag en INTERRUPTED C0ietENT (SOURCE UNKNOWN)

No no, I'm just sayin laughter

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-an applicato'r-unintelligible-- .

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TOLSON: .

l Be'caref'ul because your- shelf-life yes ,-'if this exceeded the : shelf dlife, -I- want--

that painted or I'll paint. - THat's a clear cut indication in .that', all' right,

.M ibut, you go back another _way!-unintelligible- on shelf-life;}your gonna have to-dea'l with inspection. report to verify q

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!Q. Whose . shelf-life?

- **((AUDIO- PORTION OF TAPE = BAD FROM THIS POINT ON))

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• UNABLE TO DISTINOUISH VOICES FROM ONE'ANOTHER And you got a reject tag which says the same things that -unintellic;ibsi-

.Yeh, seems witt. the applicator-you got to list him too. You got to' list him too on -unintelligible-

We'l, l I-don't want you goin out igain and tellin the inspection peoples to start

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putting reject tags on people g ' laughter, oh no.  ;

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TOLSON:

because you'???? shculd be dealt.

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.No, just put it on the areas where -unintelligible- ,

TOLSON:

Now I've considered puttin hold tags on -unintellicible- for the last 5 years.

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• DUE TO POOR QUALITY OF AUDIO, THE REMAINER OF THE TAPE IS INAUDIBLE.

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