ML11305A152

Transcript - 2.206 Petition from Michael Mulligan Vermont Yankee Teleconference-October 25, 2011

ML11305A152
Person / Time
Site:	Vermont Yankee File:NorthStar Vermont Yankee icon.png
Issue date:	10/25/2011
From:	Plant Licensing Branch 1
To:
References
2.206, NRC-1227
Download: ML11305A152 (31)

Text

Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Title: 10 CFR 2.206 Petition RE Vermont Yankee Docket Number: (n/a)

Location: (teleconference)

Date: Tuesday, October 25, 2011 Work Order No.: NRC-1 227 Pages 1-29 IORGINýAL]

NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.

Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 + + + + +

3 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 4 + + + + +

5 NUCLEAR REACTOR REGULATION 6 + + + + +

7 PETITION REVIEW BOARD 8 DISCUSSION WITH PETITIONER 9 --

10 In the Matter of:

11 10 CFR 2.206 PETITION 12 OF MICHAEL MULLIGAN 13 WITH RESPECT TO 14 VERMONT YANKEE 15 16 Tuesday, October 25, 2011 17 18 The above-entitled conference convened via 19 teleconference, pursuant to notice, at 3:30 p.m.

20 Eastern Daylight Time.

21 BEFORE:

22 PATRICK HILAND, Petition Review Board Chairman 23 JAMES KIM, Petition Manager for 2.206 petition 24 TANYA MENSAH, Petition Coordinator 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202)o 234-4433

• WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

2 1 NRC STAFF PRESENT:

2 JEROME 0. BETTLE, Division of Safety Systems, 3 Containment and Ventilation Branch, NRR 4 STEVEN JONES, Balance of Plant Branch, NRR 5 NANCY SALGADO, Branch Chief, Division of 6 Operating Reactor Licensing, NRR 7

8 NRC REGIONAL STAFF PRESENT:

9 JOSEPH DeBOER, Division of Reactor Projects, 10 Region 1 11 12 ALSO PRESENT:

13 JIM DeVINCENTIS, Entergy Nuclear Operations 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.cor m

3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (2:32 p.m.)

3 MR. KIM: Good afternoon. I would like to 4 thank everybody for attending this meeting.

5 My name is James Kim. And I am the 6 Vermont Yankee Project Manager. We are here today to 7 allow the petitioner, Mr. Michael Mulligan, to address 8 the Petition Review Board regarding 2.206 petition 9 dated August 26th, 2011.

10 I am the petition manager for the 11 petition. The Petition Review board Chairman is 12 Patrick Hiland. As part of the Petition Review 13 Board's review of this petition, Mr. Michael Mulligan 14 this opportunity to address the PRB. This meeting is 15 scheduled from 2:30 to 3:30 p.m.

16 The meeting is being recorded by the NRC 17 Operations Center and will be transcribed by a court 18 reporter. The transcript will become a supplement to 19 the petition. The transcript will also be made 20 publicly available.

21 I would like to open this meeting with 22 introductions. As you go around the room, please be 23 sure to clearly state your name, your position, and 24 the office that you work for within the NRC for the 25 record.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

4 1 I will start off. This is James Kim. I 2 am a project manager for the Division of Operator 3 Reactor Licensing in NRR.

4 MS. SALGADO: I am Nancy Salgado. I am 5 the Branch Chief in the Division of Operator Reactor 6 Licensing, NRR.

7 MR. BETTLE: Jerome Bettle, Division of 8 Safety Systems, Containment and Ventilation Branch.

9 CHAIRMAN HILAND: I am Pat Hiland, Office 10 of NRR.

11 MS. MENSAH: Tanya Mensah, Division of 12 Policy and Rulemaking, 2.206 Coordinator.

13 MR. JONES: Steve Jones, Senior Reactor 14 Systems Engineer, Balance of Plant Branch, NRR.

15 MR. KIM: We have completed introductions 16 at the NRC headquarters. At this time are there NRC 17 participants from the regional office on the phone?

18 MR. DeBOER: Yes. My name is Joseph 19 DeBoer. I am a project engineer in the Division of 20 Reactor Projects, Region 1.

21 MR. KIM: Are there any representatives 22 for the licensee on the phone?

23 MR. DeVINCENTIS: This. This is Jim 24 Devincentis from Entergy Nuclear Operations.

25 MR. KIM: Mr. Mulligan, would you please NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

5 1 introduce yourself for the record?

2 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: I am Mike Mulligan.

3 And I am a whistle-blower. And I worked at Vermont 4 Yankee for a number of years.

5 MR. KIM: Thank you.

6 Are there any others, such as members of 7 the public, on the phone? It is not required for 8 members of the public to introduce themselves for this 9 call. However, if there are any members of the public 10 on the phone that wish to do so at this time, please 11 state your name for the record.

12 (No response.)

13 MR. KIM: Hearing none, I would like to 14 emphasize that we each need to speak clearly and 15 loudly to make sure that the Court Reporter can 16 accurately transcribe this meeting. If you do have 17 something that you would like to say, please first 18 state your name for the record.

19 For those dialing into the meeting, please 20 remember to mute your phones to minimize any 21 background noise or distractions. If you do not have 22 a MUTE button, this can be done by pressing the keys 23 *6. To unmute, press the *6 keys again. Thank you.

24 At this time I will turn it over to the 25 PRB Chairman: Patrick Hiland.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

6 1 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Yes. Thank you.

2 This is Patrick Hiland. I will be the 3 Board Chairman today.

4 Good afternoon. Welcome to this meeting 5 regarding the 2.206 petition submitted by Mr.

6 Mulligan. I would like to first share with you some 7 background on our process.

8 Section 2.206 of Title X of the Code of 9 Federal Regulations describes the petition process, 10 the primary mechanism for the public to request 11 enforcement action by the NRC in a public process.

12 This process permits anyone to petition 13 NRC to take enforcement-type action related to NRC 14 licensees or licensed activities. Depending on the 15 results of its evaluation, NRC could modify, suspend, 16 or revoke an NRC-issued license or take any other 17 appropriate enforcement action to resolve a problem.

18 The NRC staff's guidance on the disposition of 2.206 19 petition requests is in management directive, 8.11, 20 which is publicly available.

21 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 22 the petitioner an opportunity to provide any 23 additional explanation or support for the petition 24 before the Petition Review Board's initial 25 consideration and recommendation.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

7 1 This meeting is not a hearing, nor is it 2 an opportunity for the petitioner to question or 3 examine the Petition Review Board on the merits or the 4 issues presented in the petition requests. No 5 decision regarding the merits of the petition will be 6 made at this meeting.

7 Following this meeting, the Petition 8 Review Board will conduct its internal deliberations.

9 The outcome of this internal meeting will be discussed 10 with the petitioner.

11 The Petition Review Board typically 12 consists of a chairman, usually a manager at the 13 Senior Executive level at the NRC. And, as I 14 introduced myself at the beginning, I am a Senior 15 Executive level member of the NRC. It has a petition 16 manager and a Petition Review Board coordinator.

17 Other members of the Board are determined by the NRC 18 staff based on the content of the information in the 19 petition request.

20 Let me now introduce the Board. James Kim 21 is the Petition Manager for the petition under 22 discussion today. Tanya Mensah is the office's 23 Petition Review Board Coordinator. Other technical 24 staff include Jerome Bettle from the Containment and 25 Ventilation Branch; Steve Jones from the Balance of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

8 1 Plant Branch; Joseph DeBoer from the NRC Region l's 2 Division of Reactor Projects.

3 As described in our process, the NRC staff 4 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 5 understand the petitioner's presentation and to reach 6 a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject the 7 petitioner's request for review under the 2.206 8 process.

9 I would like to summarize the scope of the 10 petition under consideration and the NRC activities to 11 date. On August 26th, 2011, Mr. Mulligan submitted to 12 the NRC a petition under 2.206 in which he expressed 13 a concern that a steam or vapor plume is coming from 14 the Vermont Yankee turbine building roof.

15 In this petition request, Mr. Mulligan, 16 one, requested an immediate report on the basic 17 function of the vapor extractor and immediate 18 radiological reading of the discharge and listing of 19 all the nuclides; two, requested the content of vapor 20 and asked whether reactor steam and water get released 21 out the vent on top of the turbine building roof; 22 three, asked whether all lube oil fumes are disclosed 23 in any government reports and how much lube oil gets 24 discharged to the environment; four, asked where the 25 rainwater collected on the roof goes to and whether it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

9 1 is monitored; five, asked the nature of contamination 2 on top of the roof; six, asked whether the radiation 3 from vent enters Hinsdale, New Hampshire and whether 4 it is disclosed; seven, asked how much turbine 5 building air gets sucked into the lube oil return and 6 whether there is turbine steam or condensed water that 7 gets sucked through the system; eight, requested an 8 estimation of radiological discharge in any and all of 9 Vermont Yankee's past fuel failures; nine, requested 10 a radiological content of the turbine lube oil system; 11 ten, asked whether the roof drains to the plant sewers 12 and to the river outfall north of the intake and 13 whether there is lube oil and radiation in the sewers.

14 In addition, Mr. Mulligan requested the 15 previously submitted Palisades 2.206 requested actions 16 to be optimized for this Vermont Yankee 2.206 17 petition. In that, Mr. Mulligan, one, requested 18 Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant and all Entergy 19 nuclear power plants be immediately shut down; two, 20 requested top Vermont Yankee management staff be fired 21 and replaced before start-up; three, requested 22 Entergy's corporate nuclear senior staff be fired and 23 replaced before the restart of the plants; four, 24 requested two additional inspectors to be assigned to 25 Vermont Yankee plant and to all the rest of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

10 1 troubled Entergy nuclear plants; five, requested the 2 formation of a local public oversight panel around 3 every plant; six, requested an emergency NRC senior 4 official oversight panel with the aims of reforming 5 the reactor oversight program; seven, requested a 6 national NRC oversight panel of outsiders to oversee 7 and report on the agency's activities; -- there should 8 be a mixture of professional academic people and 9 capable lay people -- eight, stated that there is some 10 heavy-duty and exceedingly numerous findings of 11 problems with Entergy plants during this inspection 12 reporting cycle, do an analysis of which this is 13 occurring; nine, requesting an evaluation if NRC 14 Region 1 has enough personnel and resource; ten, 15 requested President Obama to fire all the NRC 16 commissioners.

17 Allow me to discuss the NRC activities to 18 date. On September 14th, 2011, you addressed the 19 Petition Review Board via a teleconference and 20 provided additional information in support of your 21 petition.

22 On October 4th, 2011, the Petition Review 23 Board met internally to discuss your petition. The 24 Petition Review Board determined that your requests 1 25 through 10 concerning vapor plumes are inquiries and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

11 1 do not meet the criteria for review because the 2 petition failed to provide sufficient facts to warrant 3 further inquiry.

4 Your requests 1 through 8 on the second 5 part; that is, the optimization of the Vermont Yankee 6 2.206 petition, failed to provide sufficient factors 7 -- I'm sorry. Your requests 1 through 8 that were to 8 be optimized for Vermont Yankee from previously 9 submitted Palisades 2.206 met the criteria for 10 rejection because they have been reviewed, evaluated, 11 and resolved by the Petition Review Board on April 12 20th, 2011.

13 The remaining requests, 9 and 10, are not 14 within the scope of the 2.206 process. Therefore, the 15 Petition Review Board's initial recommendation was to 16 not accept your petition.

17 On October 11th, 2011, you were informed 18 of the Petition Review Board's initial recommendation.

19 And you requested another opportunity to address the 20 Petition Review Board by telephone, which is the 21 purpose of today's call, to invite any comments to the 22 Petition Review Board's initial recommendation and 23 additional information in support of your petition.

24 As a reminder for the phone participants, 25 please identify yourself if you make any remarks as NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

12 1 this will help in the preparation of the meeting 2 transcript that will be made publicly available.

3 Thank you.

4 Mr. Mulligan, I will turn it over to you 5 to provide any information you believe the Petition 6 Review Board should consider as part of this petition.

7 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: Thank you, Mr.

8 Hiland.

9 Words are, the definition of words is, 10 pretty important in this thing. You spoke of the 11 Petition Review Board discusses this with me. You 12 have done it repeatedly over I don't know how many 13 petitions, but not once has anybody ever discussed 14 anything with me. You usually send a 15 couple-of-sentence explanation on what is going on and 16 that type of thing. It's never discussed. It's 17 always in a written form. So just if words mean 18 anything, I just wanted to bring that up.

19 I was curious, you know, why my full 2.206 20 petition is not on the Vermont Yankee docket. It 21 might be there. I looked a couple of times. I 22 couldn't find it. There are a lot of issues with the 23 search features on the NRC site, but I am surprised 24 that 2.206 isn't on the docket itself, the whole 25 thing.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

13 1 I spoke a lot in the beginning about 2 Palisades. And I last testified on October 26th and 3 on September 19th at Palisades. They had a reactor 4 trip. And they found a broken valve, and there was 5 leaking.

6 Then on September 26th of the same year, 7 they had a broken breaker. And so I am just making 8 the case with that petition that Palisades and Vermont 9 Yankee are related in that it is operated by Entergy.

10 I think the major fault with Entergy is 11 they haven' t developed a strong centralized management 12 system. They usually defer their management to the 13 local plants and stuff.

14 There is a lot of under-funding that goes 15 on and not adequate skills. And that's where a heart 16 of a lot of these problems lie. I think that in a big 17 organization, there has to be a strong centralized 18 power that creates order in all of the branches, the 19 rest of the organization.

20 In my last testimony, I said, "Well, you 21 know, I know the NRC is in a process. I will know 22 when the NRC is in a process of repairing itself when 23 they redo the 2.206 process." I basically think we're 24 there with this.

25 I think essentially the NRC maliciously NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

14 1 goes through this NRC process. And the outcome is 2 known to be inaccurate and falsified and corrupted.

3 You might go through the process. You 4 might obey all the rules and stuff, but the outcome 5 leads to a false outcome and stuff. And everybody 6 knows you guys sign your names to these things. And 7 if it's inaccurate and if it's intentionally 8 inaccurate, there should be legal remedies.

9 On April 26th, Mr. Hiland was talking 10 about on the roof and trying to figure out where the 11 plume was going, where the plume was coming out of the 12 turbine building. I mean, you know, it's a picture 13 taken a couple of miles away.

14 I was kind of perplexed at that type of 15 thing, asking those kinds of questions. If I was a 16 confident agency and they were working for me, the NRC 17 would have had inspectors up on that turbine roof.

18 And they would have been feet away from it. And we 19 wouldn't be playing word games with how many 20 stanchions away is the plume. We would have known.

21 The inspectors would have been up there. And it would 22 have wrote an accurate report about it. And we 23 wouldn't be playing these kind of games. We're trying 24 to figure out what a photograph is saying.

25 It should be mentioned two days prior to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

15 1 this, Entergy wrote up a condition report about the 2 plume, about my plume. They essentially admit that 3 it's an unanalyzed discharge. There's no 4 documentation at all with this through the history of 5 the plant. And they hired AREVA to do an 6 investigation and evidently take samples of the stuff 7 coming out of the pipe. It's too bad that we didn't 8 get that before the shutdown.

9 The theme here is there might be generic 10 issues with other plants as far as should they have 11 similar AREVA investigations as Vermont Yankee? You 12 know, a possibility if Entergy and NRC wanted to get 13 VY into an outage and on the other side of the outage 14 without making any modifications because they don't 15 have to take measurements if there are issues of 16 getting VY past the court case? And everybody could 17 have been stalling because of that.

18 And, you know, there are issues of 19 incompetent relicense of Vermont Yankee. How come 20 this wasn't caught during the relicensing problem?

21 Did not meet the criteria for review 22 because the petitioner failed to provide sufficient 23 facts that would warrant further inquiry. You're 24 right. You know, like I just talked in the beginning 25 of this thing, you know, I knew that the system wasn't NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

16 1 providing me with the facts that were ongoing at the 2 plant with the AREVA contract and condition report and 3 stuff.

4 So essentially two days before this, my 5 testimony, the completion of it, was this condition 6 report and stuff. And I know a lot of people were 7 wondering, asking questions about this and stuff like 8 that. And this evidence wasn't given to me prior to 9 the Petition Review Board meeting.

10 I think it's a cover-up. I suspect 11 there's a -- it's a pretty serious cover-up because 12 this stuff was withheld from me. And, you know, it 13 wasn't really withheld from me. It was withheld from 14 the public.

15 Honest guy asks an honest question. And 16 it was absolutely accurate and stuff. Everybody was 17 fiddling around behind the scenes, you know, in the 18 secret document chambers that the public can't get at.

19 And everybody could play like stupid, you know, "We 20 don't know what you're talking about, Mike. You have 21 insufficient evidence." You know, this is one of the 22 worst coverups I've seen in the NRC in a long time.

23 I would like to go over the timeline on 24 our August 26. I submitted the 2.206 and accurate 25 radiological environmental reports coming out of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

17 1 turbine building plume.

2 On September 8th, I made a request of Tom 3 Setzer to help me with this. Again, you know, like 4 you said, "Mike, you've got the Freedom of 5 Information. And you've got all of these ways to get 6 information, Mike."

7 You got 100,000 processes, but nobody 8 wants to talk to you. I mean, that's what the NRC 9 always come back to me with, "We've got all these 10 processes."

11 But you make an honest effort to talk to 12 somebody about a problem, like Mr. Setzer. And he 13 stiff-arms me by not answering me back. And I suspect 14 that's not an error with Tom Setzer. I suspect that 15 his bosses told him that's how they're going to 16 respond to Mike Mulligan, is to stiff-arm him.

17 So on September 8th, I made a request to 18 Tom Setzer to help me out with the developing 19 condition report and AREVA contract to figure out what 20 is going on with that plume.

21 On September 12th, like I said, Vermont 22 Yankee submitted a condition report, or 23 CR-VTY-2001-03628, rad pathway unanalyzed.

24 On September 14th, two days later, we had 25 the Petition Review Board. Just one wonders. Two NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

18 1 days beforehand, you know, all the stuff going on 2 behind the scenes as far as Mike is right and then 3 everybody coming to the conclusion that it's an 4 unanalyzed pathway.

5 There are no documents at all with this, 6 at all. It's mind-boggling to think that there are no 7 documents at all associated with the vapor extractor 8 emissions.

9 So what did I get down to? The September 10 14th Petition Review Board. It's when Vermont Yankee 11 had the evidence sitting in their hands. And, like I 12 said, you know, whether Mr. Entergy at these 13 proceedings could have talked to me about it or made 14 a few comments about it or Tom Setzer himself.

15 These people knew that I was right. They 16 essentially gave the environment of insufficient facts 17 for the Petition Review Board, which was wrong. It's 18 absolutely wrong.

19 And, like I'm saying, these people had had 20 the opportunity to be honest and truthful and admit 21 what was going on and explain it a little bit, but the 22 system -- you know, that's the way the system works, 23 forward a system to a falsified outcome.

24 And everybody is just getting sick and 25 tired of that. You know, I thought we were supposed NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

19 1 to be honest and ethical. I thought we were supposed 2 to be focused on a higher good, a societal good type 3 of thing and not, you know, necessarily following the 4 procedures and processes.

5 The processes and procedures doesn't make 6 it ethical and truthful and righteous, the outcome.

7 You know, it doesn't create the honest story of really 8 what was going on and what happened and what we are 9 going to do in the future.

10 So on October 4th, the PRB made the 11 recommendation. I didn't get the recommendation until 12 October 11th, 2011.

13 On October 12th, I called Uldis Vanage, 14 the Vermont State Nuclear Engineer, and left a 15 recording on his phone. The spelling of his name is 16 U-l-d-i-s V-a-n-a-g-e. I still have a hard time 17 pronouncing his name. So I left a recording on it.

18 You know, I told him my story and left a recording on 19 his name, nice picture I gave him, too.

20 On October 14th around, Mr. Vanage called 21 me back, explained -- I explained my story, said he's 22 heading to Vermont Yankee to ask my questions.

23 On October 18th, 2001, the State Nuclear 24 Engineer reported back his results of his talk with 25 Entergy, you know. I couldn't get this out of -- you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

20 1 know, Entergy was quiet. I couldn't get it out of the 2 NRC in the Petition Review Board and stuff, you know.

3 What kind of -- how do you get information? How do 4 you get information from people when the Board kind 5 of, you know, through its rule says you can't give 6 information out to Mike Mulligan?

7 You know, you say it's a one-way check 8 valve we've got going here. I have to abide by strict 9 legal precedences. And you guys get to use ghetto 10 laws and stuff like that that nobody can understand.

11 You make up your own rules behind the scenes that 12 nobody can understand and ghetto drug laws or however 13 you want to term it, these laws that really don't have 14 any foundation of serving society and the greater 15 good.

16 So he reported that there is definitely a 17 plume. He got this from Vermont Yankee. It is coming 18 from the turbine seals. It is coming from the turbine 19 seals. And maybe seal steam is getting into the lube 20 oil or the suction of the lube oil. There is tritium 21 released from it.

22 It is unanalyzed and undocumented through 23 the life of the plant. And Entergy -- like I said, 24 Entergy hired AREVA to do an evaluation of what 25 happened for the license basis.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v

21 1 That reminds me. I hope you got my last 2 email of kind of memorializing this.

3 Hello?

4 MR. KIM: Yes. We received your email.

5 And it has been disseminated to the PRB members.

6 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: Okay. Thank you.

7 You know, I say that the state engineer 8 says that he only wanted to talk about tritium, but I 9 believe it has all the components of reactor vessel 10 steam stuff.

11 And, you know, basically -- and this isn't 12 a little thing. I mean, to give people a little bit 13 of background, you have got tons of engineers at 14 Vermont Yankee. They're like ants. There are lots of 15 them and stuff. I know they're busy now in that 16 thing. And they all have -- most of them have good 17 degrees. They come from good colleges. Some have 18 advanced degrees.

19 Certainly the NRC is in the same way. You 20 know, these guys were all -- they have all a lot of 21 experience. And the NRC people have, you know, even 22 broader experiences. You know, engineers at Vermont 23 Yankee are experts at Vermont Yankee.

24 But the engineers with the NRC that are 25 associated with operation of these plants, I mean, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

22 1 they have information on many plants. And, you know, 2 they have a greater view, wider view, of the nuclear 3 world and stuff like that.

4 So, you know, there's a lot of experience 5 here on both sides of it, a tremendous amount of 6 experience. You know, how could all these people miss 7 this through all these years?

8 You know, it's just mind-boggling to think 9 that somebody couldn't see that plume up there and 10 say, you know, "How is that damn thing in documents?

11 How do we get that thing -- how do we got our asses 12 covered?" And it was missed. It's at the end of 13 life. And something like this is missed at many 14 plants. Like I said, it raises generic issues at 15 other plants.

16 Like I said, in my 2.206 last time, I 17 begged for information on what was going on here.

18 And, according to your process, you were prevented 19 from giving me the information.

20 I mean, I don't think anybody, I don't 21 think Mr. Entergy was prevented from giving me the 22 information. I don't think Mr. Setzer was either. I 23 think he could have spoke up and said something, you 24 know, "This is going on" or something like that. But 25 the process says, you know, "You've got to lie by NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

23 1 omission." Everybody's got to lie by omission.

2 Everybody's got to be untruthful by omission.

3 It's okay to be dishonest because the 4 procedure says it's okay. It's allowed. And, you 5 know, I think there's something more here, you know.

6 That's really important.

7 I'll give my blocks another thing. It's 8 the Potterville Town Hall if anybody wants to see the 9 pictures and my write-up of it. I think this 10 constitutes a pervasive attitude with the NRC and 11 Entergy with an inability to tell us the truth. You 12 know, I think it's -- I think their systems allow them 13 to not tell the truth, you know. They can play the 14 rules, and the outcome can be untruth. I just think 15 that can't happen. That shouldn't be happening. That 16 shouldn't be happening in the United States of 17 America.

18 Malicious compliance with agency process, 19 knowing the outcome is not ethical, a falsification.

20 I believe that with all of my heart.

21 You've got to wonder if there's shredding 22 of documents going on at Vermont Yankee.

23 (Pause.)

24 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: I'm just going 25 through my paperwork here for a second to make sure NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

24 1 I've got everything.

2 The Catholic Church has an interesting 3 take on -- with their economic report recently about 4 the world situation with our financial system. And it 5 talks about technology and how we can't turn 6 technology into materialism or ethic or rules or use 7 technology for excessivity for personal benefit, what 8 I'm thinking of, the whole of the planet. It says 9 that, you know.

10 The soul of the NRC isn't the rules and 11 regulations. There's got to be something above rules 12 and regulations. I mean, in intelligence, there's got 13 to be something. Rules and regulations are primitive.

14 There's got to be something higher than rules and 15 regulations.

16 And intelligence is the ability to catch 17 associations, the ability to be fixated on something.

18 You know, you might get turned off a couple of times 19 or turn the wrong corner but, you know, the 20 intelligence to keep at it until you find a problem 21 and stuff like that.

22 There's a sense, you know, of the soul of 23 the agency, who they serve and what do they think of 24 human dignity. Human dignity is not found really in 25 a group of people. You could respect a group of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202)

• o 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

25 1 people but each other. And you can respect the 2 group's dignity, but you might disrespect the greater 3 societal dignity by over-focusing on group behavior 4 and not -- you know, where are we heading? Where are 5 we headed?

6 Here is a quote if I can just spend a 7 couple of seconds. "However, if we think clearly 8 about the new social question, we must avoid the 9 error, itself a product of neo-liberal thinking of 10 regarding all problems that need tackling as 11 exclusively technical in nature. In such a guise, the 12 problem evades discernment and ethical evaluation that 13 are urgently required. In this context, Benedict 14 XVI," I think, "encyclical warns about the dangers of 15 technical ideology; that is, of making technology 16 absolute, which tends to prevent people from 17 recognizing anything that cannot be explained in terms 18 of matter alone. It also minimized the value of 19 choices made by the concrete individual who works in 20 the economic financial system by reducing them to mere 21 technical variables, being closed to the beyond in the 22 sense of something more than technology not only makes 23 it impossible to find an adequate solution to the 24 problems but empowers the principal victims of the 25 crisis more and more from a material standpoint."

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

26 1 You know, all you've got to do is replace 2 "financial economic" with "nuclear power" and stuff.

3 And that essentially asks us the question, is there 4 something more than technology?

5 And, you know, of course, language is 6 being used more and more as a technical instrument.

7 You know, language is engineered processes are 8 created. Outcomes are assured.

9 You know, language becomes technically 10 engineered. You know, you can abuse language in the 11 same way as you can abuse the financial system.

12 You know, I talked a lot about this, about 13 how the NRC comes up with a process that's immoral.

14 It's the same way with language. And in a lot of 15 ways, we use language. Most our institutional 16 problems and failures are related to using language as 17 a technology to come to a predetermined outcome, to 18 force people to come to a predetermined outcome, and 19 not use their greater intelligence to really figure on 20 what is going on and what is best for us.

21 And so I just want everybody to realize 22 that language is important on how we use it. And we 23 can use it for good or we can use it for bad. And 24 this technical language that everybody uses nowadays, 25 you know, it's particularly potent. It can be used NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

27 1 for unbelievable, wonderful things. And it can be 2 used for some really nasty stuff.

3 Just one more quote from this guy. "As 4 Benedict XVI exhorts us, agents on all levels, social, 5 political, economic, professional, all are urgently 6 needed to have the courage to serve and promote the 7 common good through an upright life. Only they will 8 succeed in living and seeing beyond the appearance of 9 things and perceiving the gap between existing reality 10 and tried possibilities." This is unbelievable.

1] "Pope Paul VI emphasized revolutionary 12 power of forward-looking imagination that can perceive 13 the possibilities inscribed in the present and guide 14 people towards a new future.

15 "By freeing their imaginations, humans 16 free their existence. Through an effort of community 17 imagination, it is possible to transform not only 18 institutions but also lifestyles and encourage a 19 better future for all people."

20 I think that's important: our souls and 21 the souls of our organizations and how we serve some 22 higher purpose.

23 You know, one last thing is the pope says 24 -- well, not the pope. The church says, "Unity is 25 truth." You know, it kind of says, you know, if we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

28 1 come to unity, you are almost god-like or over 2 cosmic-like and stuff like that. Unity is truth. It 3 couldn't be more beautifully expressed.

4 Thank you very much for allowing me to 5 speak.

6 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Are you finished, Mr.

7 Mulligan?

8 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: Yes, sir, I am.

9 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay. At this time does 10 the staff or anyone here at headquarters have any 11 questions for Mr. Mulligan?

12 (No response.)

13 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Hearing none, does the 14 staff in Region 1 have any questions?

15 MR. DeBOER: I do not.

16 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Does the license, who I 17 believe is listening on the call, have any questions?

18 MR. DeVINCENTIS: No, Entergy has no 19 questions.

20 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Okay. Before we 21 conclude the meeting, members of the public may 22 provide comments regarding the petition and ask 23 questions about the 2.206 petition process.

24 However, as stated at the opening, the 25 purpose of this meeting is not to provide an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

29 1 opportunity for the petitioner or the public to 2 question or examine the Petition Review Board 3 regarding the merits of the petition request.

4 (No response.)

5 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Hearing no members of 6 the public, Mr. Mulligan, thank you for taking time to 7 provide the NRC staff with clarifying information on 8 the petition you have submitted.

9 PETITIONER MULLIGAN: Thank you, sir.

10 CHAIRMAN HILAND: Before we close, does 11 the Court Reporter need any additional information for 12 the meeting transcript?

13 THE REPORTER: Not for the transcript, no, 14 sir. Thank you.

15 CHAIRMAN HILAND: That was Pat Hiland 16 speaking the last two minutes. I'm sorry I didn't 17 identify myself at the start.

18 THE REPORTER: I understand, sir. Thank 19 you.

20 CHAIRMAN HILAND: With that, this meeting 21 is concluded. And we will be terminating the phone 22 connection.

23 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter was 24 concluded at 3:12 p.m.)

25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v

CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission Proceeding: 10 CFR 2.206 Petition RE Vermont Yankee by Michael Mulligan Docket Number: n/a Location: Teleconference were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken and thereafter reduced to typewriting under my direction and that said transcript is a true and accurate record of the proceedings.

Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com