ML20215F027
| ML20215F027 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Comanche Peak  |
| Issue date: | 07/10/1985 |
| From: | NRC OFFICE OF INVESTIGATIONS (OI) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20214X072 | List: |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8610160055 | |
| Download: ML20215F027 (25) | |
Text
-._ -
.=.-.-
,.. a. w a +....
y a
.lf ' T, Aplq Q 4-as-ma UhlitD STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
~
..--....m
.I
.IN THE MATTER OF:
DOCKET NO:
none S
UFFI.CE OF INVESTIGATION
.j IllVESTIGATIVE IllTERVIEW (CLOSED) -
(id?b
);,;
k'
1.0 CATION
DALLAS 3 TEXAS PAGES:
1 - 23 DATE:
WEDNESDAY, JULY 10, 1985 p
. = _.
.?
ACE-FEDERAI. REPOR1r_KS, INC.
Off.=1 Repcr:ers
~.,*
444 North CapitolStreet 0610160059 e60922 Was
, D.C. 20001 l
PDR ADOCK 0300 S
g gg EKHIBIT 12 8
NATIONWIDE COYBtACE c-
_ _. _ ~
- 7~~
.r%.,
e
- z
~
1
't 1
BEFORE THE
- (
n, F
s s
2 UNITr.D STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION s.
r, ' % -
3 OFFICE OF I WESTIGATION
. k i
'g '
..s
.m'
- , e
's y ~....'4-2 INVESTIGATIVE INTERVIEW
-x 5
c.-
.~
e
- n
...t 7
A 2
.c.
'.s.
s
-s
.=e t
9 Interview of:
10 MR. WILLIAM G. COUNSIL 11 x
.o r.
12
. t.
1:
13 h.o.\\
i-
.g
- r. -
A. -
., 3r
.y 94 2
15 Is s
g 17 t
'a :
l 18 3[. '
i-
' ' 1s
.~.
I .
g
[g.
20 REPOktTERy Cynthia Clay o, t a
21
,DATE:
July 10, 1985
~~
s
-.. r s
gy ;
r 23 k
24
\\!
25 l
'O, n
i L.
i t
'o 9
-. - - - a--.=-.
-.. ~ ~.. :
.c._ ~. ~... _.. _. _.. _ _ _.... _ _....,.. _ _ _ _ _ _ _
.,.,,.,,.2.,,, _
Q.
- e.l f
2 1
~
1 8
4 C.O N
- - -.T. E.N.T.S 2
WITNESS EXAMINATION
,)
.)l g
William G. Counsil Page 4 l
4 "h
[ t'*
a.s.
8
't 7
Y
- t 8
1,9 e
9 10 EXH
- - -.I B.I.T.S 0
11 None I
12
.j f
p*
13
_+
14
. ~ -
4 e
15 16 l '- l 17 e
18
- f. 'i 19
..9 s.
I f,
,, t 21
.8
.g 22 23 24 25 6
Di t --
t i
?
I l:
- ,,.,t-ma e.:
.61
- ).
3
~ ~.
.4 1
I PROCEE
- - -. - - -.D I N G.S 2
MR. GRIFFIN:
This is an interview of--
Is i~
3 it William G. Counsil?
4 l
.4 x<
MR. COUNSIL:
That's correct.
- c
.a 5
..]
..... -, mm MR. GRIFFIN:
C-o-u-n-s-i-1.
Q
- st 8
5,4 And your present title?
a
':]
7 a
MR. COUNSIL:
Executive Vice-President, Texas
~.
6 y
Utilities Generating Copapany.
~
s..
9 MR. GRIFFIN:
The location of this interview 10
.;j is Dallas, Texas, and today is July 10, 1985.
The time is 11 4:02 p.m..
12
~.^.
M.g Present at this interview are William Counsil j :.. [ V[ h..
13 and his personal representative, Robert Wooldridge, I.a 14 "1
W-o-o-1-d-r-i-d g-e.-
15 And for the NRC, Richard K. Herr, H-e-r-r, J,
16 and myself, H. Brooks Griffin, G-r-i-f-f-i-n.
J.
17 y1 This interview is being transcribed by a l'
is Nl court reporting service.
[,t 19 7[2 Mr. Counsil, I need you to rise and iraise 20 8
Ty your right hand; I'm going to swear you to the contents of I
s
[j' j 21 Js the testimony.
L.'s t r..
Do you swear that the information you're about 23 i.
l-to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 24 truth, so help you God?
25 a
.v MR. COUNSIL:
I do.
a e
- 3 f
0 -
F.a, p _..- ~. _... __,. 5 _d L _
_ L L A L _*'_l i
- '__ _ _.--- - _ A-, m 1. -: -.2.,,1.- a. ' i -
G 9)-
': {
4 j
t MR. GRIFFIN:
Thank you.
2 I want to briefly explore the relationship,
~\\
J 3
Mr. Wooldridge, between you and Mr.,counsil.
It's my understanding that you are Mr. Counsil'n 5
,]
personal representative for the purposes of this interview.
-'j 8
MR. WOOLDRIDGE:
That's correct.
{,
MR. GRIFFIN:
Are you also employed in any 7
8 other capacity related to the Utility?
8 MR. WOOLDRIDGE:
No, I'm not employed as such.
'0 MR. GRIFFIN:
Are you on retainer?
d MR. WOOLDRIDGE:
I'm outside counsel that
.f 12 represents Texas Utilities Generating Company, and several 13 4
other.. companies that are part of the 'J'exas utilities companie;,;.
l 14
~
system.
MR. GRIFFIN:
All right.
(
16 EXAMINATION 17 v[
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
18 d
4 To begin with, Mr. Counsil, for my own know -
ts lodge, how long have you been working for Texas Utilities
'.3 20 now?
Yg 21
.j L
I joined Texas Utilities on May 1, 1985.
22 l
0
-And you are in charge of Nuclear?
)
23 A.
All Nuclear activity.
24 O
In relation to the subject that we're here 25 to discuss today,which is the submission of the MAC Report t
8 e
1 a
-S
- ~ -
..; _ _... 422-c....-h.,wmend
"*d,.
- g,*j 5
~*
I i
to the ASLB and the NRC, you were the--you personally contacted
~ ' '
y
~
Harold Dan' ton of NRR, did you not?
.1.-
~
1 A.
Yes, I did.
4 g
I believe that was on May the 29th, 1985;
}c 5
{d does that sound correct?
Al 6
.6:
I'm not going to pin you down but--
a 7
d.
A I don't know the date.
I think it was o
]!
a Thursday, the fourth week in May.
s 1:
9 G
Okay, close enough.
10 Could you tell me, and I'll provide you an 9
ii opportunity here to make it a narrative if you choose, could Q'
12 you tell me th's content of that call to Mr. Denton?
13
~
L' I called Barold and several other members
~
f l[U I
34
~~
of'the NRC. staff.on that date, and basically told them that 15 I was aware that the MAC Beport existed and that it was k
I.
16 ii being forwarded to the.ASLB that afternoon, and that it 7.
17 s
should have.been forwarded probably in a discovery request I:
18 N
in 1980, that I had just been aware of it.
h-ig That's basically the gist of the conversation,
",2
[l with Harold and several other members of the staff.
2 21 0
Did you make any statements to Denton indi-22 cating why this had been withheld?
23 Harold asked me a question, and he had asked A.
24 if that report had.been deliberately withheld, and at that v
25 time I think I replied to him that it would seem so, and li 1
!o 8
Tbd%M h n w m
.s
.., _ ~.,.. 2.: 2;.. :,.,.- -
_. 3 2......;,:_:
..-6 A&4 fi 6
I' it'si-Irom the information I had on that given date', that 8
s 2
it had been an error in judgment, in my opinion.
That's,
.y
_/
3 all.I knew at that time.
4 4
Mr. Counsil, was it your decision to make 5
the fact,that this report existed, was it your decision to a
a make this known to the NRC and the ASLB7
~'R 7
A That decision to make it known to:the ASLB s-
'.]
3 had been made at the time that I became aware of the report.
..e When Mr. Wooldridge informed me about the report, Mr. Spence g
10 had already made the decision that the report was to be ij released to ASLB.
12 O
Mr. Counsil, have you made yourself familiar 33 to any degree with the history of the request made by the
,.j.
y.
. ~ ~ -
l, i4 Intervenor back in 19807 4,
15 A
No, I have not.-
16 4
Are you at all familiar with the degree, or
- 3
~
37 the content of the response made by.the Applicant to that r-!
18 origina1 ' request?
-l !
- .6 ;
Ig "A,
No, I'm not.
20 O
Are you familiar with the facts surrounding 21 the identification or location of the MAC Report?
I
't 22 A
only third hand, as informed by Mr. Wooldridge.
l-23 0
Okay, with that qualifier, would you please i.
24 describe what your understanding is?
25 A
All right.
My understanding of where the j
1
,a
=-...
--a,-
- =.
.;-p i a 1 w W i x G O
,. g6
,q 7
P..t I
report existed was in 1978; a few'of the officers of
.-s.
2 Texas Utilities asked for MAC to come in and do an evaluation 3
of certain areas of Comanche Peak design effort.
They did.
4 that over a very short period of time and submitted their
,i.l
), t 5
report.
I believe Bob Gary and Lew Fikar wrote the answer
'4:
- .l e
to the report, and at that time Perry Britton received il9 7
quote that. answer, and he had put that report in*his file.-
8
- Gary and the others did not keep the report.
9 I. don't know why.
I suppose it being of little value.
But the Britton files subsequently were transmitted over to Mr.
to q.
Spence when he became president of TUGco and they were in 11 4
boxes when we moved in this, building.
And I understand that 12 g
13.
the report was in those boxes in Homer Schmidt's office.
m
- - A d'
,.;.7 14 And when they were going through the boxes lj looking for infprmation for the Pr32dence audit, they came 15 q
across it and turned it over to Mr. Wooldridge.
4 76 l.
g 17 0
That was this year?
is A
That was this year.
.'] ;
1s 0
when did you first become aware of the existenco ci j jl of the MAC Report in relation to the day that you contacted 20 g-21 Mr. Denton?
22 A
Tuesday the week before, the third week in 3
23 May, it was nine days.
24 O
At the time that you found out about it, had 25 Spence already decided to furnish this to the ASLB?
I 8
9 6
. ' @ ge, __ MMem Lh W J.mism *. *-- *
... a.:
~
L
... ~
. ~..
- g. w r.r-r. m-vemm
.a m w w -cymew,*:m w.w.
1.wmv.:.cnw.% r.r,-yssyn
.y si.
g 8
. *i
[
1 A
That's correct.
Shortly after Jchn Beck and 2
I met with Mr. Wooldridge, we got together late that after-
.Y 3
noon into the evening with Mr. Spence, and a decision had 4
.j already been made.to release the report to the ASLB.
W
,14 5
The investigation, however, had not been--if
-a
- h g
6 you want to call it an investigation, had not been completed,
,(
7 all the interviews, and so forth, at that time.
e Y'.
s G
Are you familiar with the contents of the w
' findings, so-called findings, of the MAC Report?
9 10 A
In general, yes, I read it.
11 Q
How wouid you characterize those findings in kc.
' 12 relation to the QA program?
13 L
I'd have to do it in hindsight, but in g-.;;;
d 14 la reading the report itself, in general, it was favorable 15 from what the MAC, or MAC, had said.
That's about all I V.[
16 can say about it.
,l.\\*
]
17 0
How about th'e response by the Applicant?
3.-
j;g 18 A
That would be subjective on my part; I can't er
!,-j 19 really comment on it.
I wasn't there in '78.
t 20 0
Okay.
21 A
Mr. Counsi1, were you involved in taking Mr.
'f 22 Wooldridge with making a determination, or as I said earlier, bJ l t l-23 conducting an internal investigation to the reasons why 24 l this report was withheld in '80?
1 1
25 A
Only with recommendation; the decision was l4
';.1.
na :=.g.3a.,;.;_ _ a ;4,g..;.,.,3.}
w._ __,.::..;, _
.. x-I u..
9
.o-
"1 1
made byrMr. Spence.
.g 2
MR. WOOLDRIDGE:
Let me stop you.
I 3
Could you read--
I didn't hear the first 4
two or three words of that question.*
- .j 5
Y.h All I'd like to hear is the first two or.
4 4
three words.
e 3
.3 7
g.
[ Record read.]
~
- f 3
MR. GRIFFIN:
Would you like me to repeat a
9 my question?
~~
i 10 MR. WOOLDRIDGE:
I don't have any problems 11 with it.
12 MR. CobNSIL:
I answered it.
~
e,,
Ai 13
- MR. GRIFFIN
Did you?
I forgot the answer.
.m IM NE['..E)
D 14 g
MR. COUNSIL:
You forgot my answer already?
\\..
e:
15 b
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
I a!'
16 0
You said Mr. Spence primirily--
l.[
17 A
Mr. Spence made the decision.
5 ts 0
Okay, but you. had scune input as he progressed g
h 19 in his investigation?
~
hi i; I 2o A
Basically along the way, that's true.
a l; 21 O
Was Mr. Wooldridge giving you feedback or s:
li r i
22 statuses of the results of his investigation?
w 23 A
Not me alone.
0 24 G
But including you?
25 A
Including me.
Spence, Beck and I and Wooldridg e v
^
- g. c n w.1 - v -....,.....
<-...s.m-r
,2 er.
2
,wg pe,
,-3. < nL_. a /.
L.
c - - - _ _
. w e m e.-.s
.s,fw_w.et w :pe _w e ra m w h _-+rwu.v
.ve_ w.__. 6.v.*. w o.
2 If
- i
- M
10 1
.r G
Based on your knowledge of the content of 2
the MAC Report, do you have any opinion as to whether you
'j 3
believe it should have been included in discovery back in 4
19807 2
N 5
L wo.
N'.
a 6
0' You don't know whether it should have been 7
or not?,
8 L
No.
I answered your question, I have no
~
l ".
9 opinion.
i 10
... laughter...
- l. '
11 4
Could you formulate one for us? as the head
'4 12 of Nuclear, and with your experience.
.3 a
i!.
13 L
obviously, I was very supportive of releasing,'.-<.
14 the report.
, i, f p
15 Q
But looking back, based on the Applicant--
l-16 I don't--well, you've already said you're not that familiar si pratues.
y 17 with the case's interrogatories and requests to W hack 3
in1980,butwithyourvastexperi[anceinthisindustry, g
18 3*j; 19 is it your understanding that this report would, in fact, si
- 8.g 20 have been discoverable (if that's the correct phrasing) under O;;
21 that particular request?
.g
't 22 L
Yes, I feel it would have been.
23 G
Okay.
24 Mr. Counsil, are you familiar with the results 25 of Mr. Wooldridge's investigation into this matter?
I 9
'i
.7..
--.... :. m__O
___,n...__.
}
.r j.
11 1
A Yes, Ilam.
I 2
O I think I have a copy-of that response.
In T
3 the response Mr. Wooldridge identifies Mr. Lew Fikar's and Bill Clements' position or understanding in relation to i
g this report.
- I a
Is this--to your knowledge, is this accurate?
7 A
To the best of my knowledge it is.
8 4
Bave you. talked to Mr. Clements about this 8
matter?
18 L
No, I have not.
11 4
Or Mr. Fikar?
12 A
yo, 1
13 i s..
G How about'Mr. Chapman?
... n
-l 14 L
No.
L.
15 0
Mr. Counsil, have you attended any meetings 7
16 or received any explanation from any of your--any other L
l.,i 17 managers, Mr. Spence or others, that would lead you to draw l
[]
18' a conclusion as to why thids report was withheld in 19807 s.-
18 i I~
Not really, other than as it states in'the 1
f!
20
' letter, it was an error in judgment, and that is basically n ' ;.
l 21 the only discussions I've had on it.
1 4
'.i :
22 l-0 Well, is it your understanding that the l
l 23 decision to withhold this document was intentional?
24 I'm talking about just your understanding.
25
.g A.
I understand that.
I understand.
1
'4 0
L -
M.T - r.s
..~,a G y & g n g _.;A +.l,l',,1 2 w w'a;.;, &.n,a.eex, y+ :
b e,, -
12 9'l 2
1 One person made the decision.
2 O
This is your understanding?
)
' f.
3 A
That's my understanding of it.
t 4
[;!
0 Was this persod, based on your understanding, s
31
- /;
did he consult others about making this decision?
or was s
it his decision alone?
7 A.
Not to my knowledge, he did not consult anyone
=
v.C M
s
.y It was his decision.
i, 1
M:
G Based on your knowledge of this incident, i
10 looking--which was, cf course,- long before you arrived in lll 11 this position, was Mr. Fikar solely responsible for making
,.s:
3 12-this decision?
..it
$-}
13 A
As the whole situation was explained to me,
[<,
h 14 yes.
~
l t
15 7
.O What is your understanding of Mr. Fikar's 16 reasoning for withholding this report?
'l
[
17 A
He felt--now, again, this is third hand, I T-
.'!g hope you're aware--
is t+
t rjg 19 4
of course.
All these questions we're in l
]
Ja 20 the area right now, I realize.
{a' I'm asking you to simply
- s; repeat what you know.
l s
21 "r
22 A
All right.
He felt that that report was a.
1 23 at the request of company management and--in '78--and that 24 it was considered as company proprietary and, therefore, 25 should not be released.
)
1
-..;.m
= -
- x
.::::m ~
~.
v,
~
.i 13 i
.0 I
1 G
That'si his explanation as you understand it?
2 A.
That's the best of my knowledge.
O Mr. Counsil, are you familiar with a Notice a
g of violation that was issued by the NRC to Texas Utilities
.i s
^}
in February of 3984, related to a request for QA audits?
i-l 4
L No, I'm not.
-)
4 7
c S
Okay.
There was a Notice of Violation, and
,. ~
i
~:
a E!
it specifically made those--
The reason I bring this up, 9
I ',
one of our inspectors in Region IV was conducting this 10 l
inspection.
He specifically asked for any evidence to 11
~;
demonstrate that the QA audit program was being--the QA
~
- l
. 12
'l program'was being audited, and it's my understanding that c
l3 13
. -) (f. Jl.'.-
' Texas Utilities, responded, their response was that there
~
ij V
14 f
were no such audits.
~
And thls particular--this MAC Report, by my l
16 understanding, would have fallen into that category; in 17 other words, had the Utility identified or had knowledge
^
1a of or was in possession of this, they could have offered 19 g
this up in direct response to this request.
As it was, 4
20 jt, they did not offer this document at that time, and they Li 21 9
received a Notice of Violation for not auditing the'QA
[I 22 j
program.
23 Are you aware of this at all?
24 2
r A.
No, I'm not.
h 25
,i G
Okay.
g-II it 1
3
......_----.m--r.W~.
. _ '). w.-.
~
)
'l1 _ _ _
-==.__me.w--
- ^ - "
" - - - ~ ' - ' ' " '" ~
~~
$43.$.
M, 14 f;*
1 i
Bave you had any input into the Comanche 2
Peak action plan?
3 A
Yes.
4 s.,
J,}
O Bave you had any input into the action plan 5
\\"-j in relation to auditing the QA program?
v,..
8
],
I.et me give you a further explanation-1 A
All right.
2 g
3d S
-because I can see you don't see where I'm
- c. i
- t. '
going with this.
10 A
No.
s
[
11 0
In response to this Notice of Violation I
[. ;-
12 b-was just asking you about; the Utility was offered an l
j3
{li opportunity to respond to this Notice of Violation in the 14 action plan and you all chose to do so.
I have not had
'8 P:.
an opportunity to review that.
It's.my understanding that 1
16 the action plan has been submitted to the NRC."
'7 A
That's correct.
,i i
31 is S
And in light of this MAC Report issue, I
.v j-thought there was a possibility that,this particular issue, 19 e
??
.since it was supposed to be a portion of--tha' We response was h
21 supposed to' be contained in the action plan, I thought that. -
atf 22 it may have come to your attention.
23 A
No, it was not.
Now the way that we responded 24 in the CPRT action plan came about as a result of the public a
{
meetings we had on the 13th and 14th with Darrell Eisenhunt d
I e
l
=
- - _ _1.1.
..,.,..~.m_...m.,:.a..,m
.K tl.4
.a-15
..J j
1 leading the chargk,,and they had concern 'that as far as 2
our third party reviews that we had not applied a OA program to that overall third party review.
And our position was 4
-',j that we did not, since we did not want to apply the TUGCO
-t 5
le, i
program to them because it.would taint the third party
.?..
6 review.
7 a
I see.
2}
s A
And so subsequent to that meeting and further d_iscussions with NRC we said we would have the third party 10 in the OAOC area, John Hansel of NRC, develop an overall fy, 11 program for that group of activities of the third party
- l..
people.
And that's what we put in that action plan and 12
'a
.h 13 0.{
b said it would be submitied at a later date, because wei g
'.]
D' N
hadn't had it fully developed yet.
j U
15 But that's how it came.about, that was as 'a.
u 16 result of the 13th and 14th of June.
j 17 g
okay.
- h. [
18 4-I'd like to drop back for a minute and test 18 your memory, based on third-hand information again.
j 20 Based on Mr. Wooldr,idge's internal investiga-9 A i g
21 tion *and your conversations with other managers regarding
.M, r
.- r j
22 the withholding of this MAC Report, could you please tell 23 me the names of those managers that have been identified 24 to you back--who in 1980 had knowledge of the existence of C
'g 25 this report?
.i
'I.,
-=
mms. -4A%-4,fg.m.b;L.4,,b.m, _
gg,g
.yy pgy d
?
- c.. 4 t
16 1
g A
One clarification; I didn't discuss anything 2
with them.
It was only Spence, Beck, I and Wooldridge that
/
~
had any discussions.
4 O
Okay.
What--
5 A
,U I understand you want to know who--
J 6
0 Let me-if I tell you why I want to know, t
maybe it will make it easier.
.r.
[.-
8 This is the outset of this investigation.
- J I'm asking, you questions that I do not believe you know the 10 answer to, but you may be able to speed me ori my way.
s 11 And I'm asking you now to identify any i';
12 managers that were identified in discussions or conversations s.
13 or feedba'ck that you may have received front Mr. Wooldr,idge, (NV t ;,,
1' i*
or others, who had a hand or knowledge in of the,MAC Report 15 and the withholding of it, other potential sources of l
i.
16 information that I--
!,i 17 MR. WOOLDRIDGE:
Other than what's,in the 18 j
letter, you're asking, I assume?
Other than those referred r.
Ii 18 to in the letter.
2 20 I.;i MR. GRIFFIN:
Well, the letter is your product l,l 21 and I don't plan to interview you, so I'm--I may have to y
j 22 eventually since you're so deeply involved in this right I'
23 now.
d 24 MR. WOOLDRIDGE:
Okay; I'm just asking that
~
25 for clarification.
t 3
P.
~
g
.b
$_1f_
~. _..
' ' ' ~
2
-- +
.?f _
- $1.
31 17
]j 1
BY MR. GRIFFIN:
q 2
O I presume the same names in the letter have i-been brought to your attention.
?.
4
".)h A
That's correct.
The only ones out of those n
's 5
ij groups that I knew were Fikar and Clements.
None of the
$1 g
6 others, I haven't ever talked to.
2.,
y
- -)
G, Okay.
o
- e Ih 8
You read the letter--the letter identifies 8,
fl Clements, Fikar, Tolson and Chapman.
Since you'.ve been
- .i 10 i.
involved, or been aware of this issue, do you specifically v
recall any names?
This is a restatement of my last question.
.. I
'U Do you recall any names other than those four?
'8 L
Well, there are other names that were men-
,,g,.
.y tioned by Mr. Wooldridge as to who he talked to, to see i
'd
.i f
9
'8 whether they had any knowledge of this issue, and that's ri 16 the only names I know.
$, t $
G Okay; can you call them?
'I dj
'8 A
one was Homer Schmidt.
Another was Joe B.
N
] j*.
19
(*
George.
To the best of my knowledge, that's it.
y;j 20 0
All right.
A
..j f 21 MR. HERR:
Excuse me, but did Mr. Schmidt s=.
22 or Mr. George have any knowledge of this MAC Report? to a
j 23 1..-
the best of your memory or knowledge.
24 MR. COUNSIL:
Joe remembered something about
,~'.s.
25
'.'g,-
the MAC being in, but nothing about the report.
And Homer It 9
t
]
b
-- m --
w---' M
~ ' " ~ ~ ^ ~ ~... '.
_.._i E - A-1.MO 22----- k f M + " i - + ^ '^ ~ '" " ' " ".* ' * " " ~
).h.
t; i
18 t
was, I believe, one of the people who turned the report 2
-3 over to Mr. Wooldridge.
,j 3
MR. HERR:
I have some questions, if you....
4
. r; MR. GRIFFIN:
Sure; go ahead.
. '*3 s
f, BY MR. HERR:
- :i e.,
e O
)y It is my understanding from something earlier that Mr. Spence was the one that discovered this MAC Report a
8 in some boxes that he was--
Is that right?
Who was--
9 L
No.
No.
We have a team of people putting together the information being' requested by creasap, McCormick and Pagent during the Prudence audit, and Bosner Schmidt is t c
.f 12
- heading up that effort.
He has a few people working for
- a. *
'J 13 him; and they're the ones who found it in going through
@suY (g
'i
^ cy those boxes.
i, -
15 s-g.
Mr. Schmidt found it?
16 A
Hall, it was, I believe Mr. Rose and his jl organization that found it and gave it to Bompr to turn 17 nb]
18
,4 over to Wooldridg,e.
2,: -
k'N 0
Okay, then Bo you know when this occurred?
- }
- {
s 20 A
My understanding is approximately a week Ji.'
4 21 before I was told about it, so it would be the second week 5:t f
22 ly in May.
23 4
So, in~other words, you're telling me that 24 Mr. Spence became aware of this MAC Report during the 25 second week of May?
.)
I
7..
- 7.....
3.t
.L, 19 d6 A'
Thats correc't.
2 j.
~
G Earlier you indicated that Mr. Fikar, as
"/
3 s
far as you knew, to the best of your knowledge, was the 4
.h sole person responsible for makihg this decision not to j
5
.t release l't back in.1980.
If that circumstances would happen
.I 6
today, would the person, whoever's holding that, position
-}
c today,,could this occur again or would you have input into
- j s
something that's withheld from the NRC.or ASLB, or would 3
g it still be a one-man decision, under your organization, 10 as you have it?
i 11 q
A Well, the way the organization is today, it
.],
12 q
all reports to me, and I personally would have no knowledge
.d 13
'4 e-w.
e.
ie.w what went into--I just don't do that.
I never did it at.
u:.:-
14 Northeast even, and Northeast is always there of what was j
is going into the discovery rooms, or however they were being e.4 d;
16 q
submitted to people.
- )
a.! -[
c.-
17 W.
If there were somebody making a conscious Is
."d !
decision, however, to do something like that or questioning 4j 19 jj whether or not a report should be released, that would, in 1i 20
]3 fact; flow to me, and I'd take the advice of counsel as
.)
- 21
~-l to what I should do with it.
r 22 0,
Basically, the question I guess I really i
23 3.
want to know, and you've answered my question, is that I i
24 r.
guess you don't keep--any time a decision is made not to
- t., '*)
25 provide documents to the ASLB or NRC, as opposed to to i
~
b
+L LQ q.
=-c Ni y-y 20 7-
' I to' provide it.
But when the decision is made not to 2
s provide something, at least you are cut in on it, or you're
)
3
. knowledgeable of what is not going to be released?
4 A
That would be correct, and that would only
- )
5
?.
be with the advice of counsel, that it is not discoverable.
k; 6
O So to release it, they don't necessarily 7
7.; -
need your attention.
~
8
..t A
That's right.
[
9 g-4 0
But when it's not going to be.
I 10 Mr. Rose, who does he work for?
Does he 11 P
h1 work for TUGC07 1 :,,
12 i.
...A To tell you the truth, I don't know.
I presume.-
33
@N
(..
34 so.
q-g I only ask the question because apparently 15 he's the one that actually discovered tha report.
16 1
,8 37 A
I think that's correct.
i1 O
Ijustwonderedwhoheworkedhor.
- f 3,
A I really don't know.
..[
MR. WOOLDRIDGE:
Don't speculate.
a 3,
MR. COUNSIL:
I don't know; I really don't.
1
- ,t I'm just trying to put names and faces together still.
23 MR. GRIFFIN:
I understand.
I appreciate that.
24 BY MR. HERR:
'g 7
25 CL I guess the question that bothers me, why j.
O
~?~
W '.
.,5. za..
a:
.c-
. - - -.- --._,;._. J L j
.~
~
=
5 21 a
y4 1
..would Mr. Rose give'this repdrt to Mr. Wooldridge.
Does 2
he work for Mr. Wooleiridge?
3 A
I don't know that, either.
.4 MR. GRIFFIN:
I'm sure Mr. Wooldridge will
.1-5 gij fill us in.
- .4
~. -
BY MR. HERR y
S.
G He did have the authority, though, to go e
L.
g f.h through and look at your records, then, this Mr. Rose?
at A
Well, Homer Schmidt has that authority, to 10 go through all the Prudence audit efforts.
?
N!
S Schmidt works for?
m 12 J. ~
A He reports to Mike Spence.
G
-.j-13
'i S
So we have the authority there.
34 BY MR. GRIFFIN:
c.t
['l l
15
}
B Mr. Counsil, are you aware of whether the (l
16 g,
QA manual presentiy. requires audits of the QA program?
l, ji' !
A No, I'm not aware.
1
- d. !
S It's out of your realm, then?
Lj
- A well, it really isn't.
I'm responsible for
?
K 20 a
l,) J QAr:but there are only so many hours in a day to get caught
'.i 21 up and I'm having my first meeting on a topical report on 1
1 22 Friday afternoon that we're drafting, so I really haven't 23 looked.
4 24 G
Okay. -
I was hoping, s,ince this was a hot issue lI a
9 i
h i
,3
~....z
..__..m__._,
3-_
..,;_,,.g_.__,,,_._,.,,_,_,,,,_,_
.., g,
,,j.,,, u
- A 22 e-I right now, that maybe you'd just walked out of one where 2
that was the subject or something.
~
,;:)
3 3
MR. GRIFFIN:
Do you have any other questions, Dick?
j 5
MR. HERR The only other question I was
(
6 interested in is this Comanche Peak action plan regarding Notice of Violation; possibly it has been-n-
s, MR. GRIFFIN:
He doesn't--I've already 9
asked him about that.
He doesn't know wnat the response is, or if it's contained in the Notice of Violation.
i :.
gi
.J MR. HERR Perhaps he could find out and
- i 12 let us know, and let us take a look at it.
~
'3
~
MR. GRIFFIN; We have that.
f,,$h J'
MR. HERR:
Oh, we have_it?
15 MR. GRIFFIN:
Uh-huh.
g 16 L
MR. WOOLDRIDG'E:-
I'll be glad to look at it 3
L,} }
17 if you want me to.
,i]
MR. GRIFFIN:
Okay, we'll appreciate it.
is
.)5 Okay, one l'ast questior$.
l' 20 BY MR. GRIFFIN:
I, t 21 O
As you can imagine this MAC Report issue, t
l:,
22 like I said earlier, the NRC is grateful that the Utility has 23 made the deci.5: ion to come forward and identify this document l '-
24 u
and we're trying to complete the' record on that.
s 25 With that thought in mind, is there anything
)
1
3;
- .n
.. - - ~. - -. - - =
e.
v.
- ~..
- s. :, '..:;a.;& i. c.;g-g.;:.:_. _,_
~'
, = - _
g.
' d,.-
~
23 that's important, any important piece of information 2
related to the withholding or the production of this MAC
!.i N..,. '
3
',;~
Report that you are aware of that has not already been
- J 4
!.i transmitted to the NRC7
/
5
(..k A
Not to my knowledge.
It was all in that
.W e
8
.yj,,,,
second letter that Mr. Wooldridge signed.
[jj 7'
M,<
g 8
S So since you took the initiative to call c
6
. 9,
_Barold Denton, there's been no further information that' jj would shed more light on the history or the s'ituatilon or 10 an understanding of why this report was withheld under n
fj 11
~
discovery?
fl.
12 2-
.H-A Not to my knowledge.
~
.f 13 M
p%
~
MR. GRIFFIN: 'Mr. Counsil, have I or any
- i.,
'+0.c 14 y ;_
Fd other NRC representative here threatened you in,any manner, 15
{
offered you any rewards in return for this statement?
'p.
16 d!
MR. COUNSIL:
No.
M[
17 18 MR. GRIFPIN:
Bave you given this statement g
freely and voluntarily?
?j is
>d MR. COUNSIL:
Yes, I have.,
20 g
MR. GRIFFIN:
Is there anything further you'd
,1 21
'. 1
. care to add for the record?
c.
r et.
22 MR. COUNSIL:
Nothing.
23 MR. GRIFFIN:
Okay.
I appreciate your time.
24 IWhereupon, at 4:40 p.m.,
the interview
- (
25 r
was concluded.]
j P
t
o.
==
... ~ -. - -
- .4,,w,._,
wa-~ ",,_; -- -
.::4.z u
. y..
?..
- s i
t
..s
\\'
)\\
CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL RiPORTER
,9
.. :?
- j This is to certify that the attached proceedings
. v.,
9._..
before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY 4;!
COMMISSION in the matter of:
...c r,'
The MAC Report Investigative Interview of MR. WTTTT1M G. COUNSIL
.3 J.
PIACEi Dallas,. Texas,
..:ph&..
[.
DATE:
Wednesday, July 10, 1985, a
were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the r
United States Nuclear Regulatory Ceaunission.
I t
'L u /5tA
~
ce a Clay 1
Official Reporter Allied Stenotype Reporters 906 Texas Building
- Fort Worth, Texas 76102 J'
O 6
t-V 6
I..
e'
-