ML20199H572
| ML20199H572 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | 05000000, Comanche Peak |
| Issue date: | 06/17/1985 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML17198A302 | List:
|
| References | |
| FOIA-85-299, FOIA-85-59, FOIA-86-A-18 NUDOCS 8607030381 | |
| Download: ML20199H572 (38) | |
Text
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION In the matter of:
(CLOSED MEETING)
Telephone Conference Call Alleger Feedback Discussion - Comanche Peak Docket No.
- CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION**
Location:
Bethesda, Maryland Date:
Monday, June 17, 1985 Pages:
1 - 35 8607030381 860623 PDR FOIA GARDE 86-A-18 PDR ANN RILEY & ASSCCIATES Court Reporters 1625 I St.,
N.N.
LI i
Suite 921 l Q y =}.- f',; ] -
Washington, D.C.
20006 gg (202) 293-3950 i
M &
1 i
UNITED STATES g
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMf11 SS I ON S
4 (CLOSED MEETING) 5 6
Telephone Conference Call 7
8 9
Alleger Feedback Discussion - Comanche Peak 10 11 12 Room P-2S4 18 Phillips Building 14 7920 Norfolk Avenue 15 Bethesda, Maryland 16 l
17
, Monday, June 17, 1985 18 The telephone conference call in the above-entitled 19 matter convened at 2:00 p.m.
20 PARTICIPANTS:
21 Chet Posiusny, NRC 22 S.
Hou, NRC 29 Doug Hanson, NRC y
T
,~
2 1
P R O C E ED 1 N G S 2
(2:00 p.m.)
3 MR. POSLUSNY:
Good afternoon.
4 For the record, this is an interview with 5
for the purpose of providing feedback regarding the i
6 Technical Review Team assessment of certain concerns raised 7
about the Comanche peak facility.
S This interview s being conducted by teiephone.
the participants are as follows:
myself, Chet 9
Present 10 Poslusny; Mr. Shou Hou s Mr. Doug Hanson, all three of the 11 TechnicaI Review Team the alieger, and 12 f CASE.
13 As agreed, this interview is being transcribed, and 14 a copy wiIi be provided to This is 15 basically a continuation of our feedback discussion, which we 16 conducted in May, and we would like to provide further 17 clarification and findings that have occurred since that 10 discussion.
19 I would like Dr. Hou to begin.
[
20 MR. HOU:
This is Shou Hou.
l 21 Let me beiofIy desceibe l
22 concern.
He is concerned about the main steum penetrating t h.e i
28 containment wall There is a penetrating assembly which was 24 made of frame pipo structures and consists of a thick piate, 25 and he indicated that that assembiy was raceived onsite with
3 1
lamination defects in some of its plate, that defects were 2
repaired onsite.
Indicate that cadweld sleeves S
were attached to these plates by welding for holding the end 4
of the rebar.
5 concern is, under the future Ioading 6
conditions, the rebars may pull the plate of the frame and 7
cause laminar tearings of the plate.
Since the plate and the 8
frame assembly are part of the containment penetration 9
assembly, and so naturally the worry is about the structural 10 integrity of the containment under the loading conditions.
11 So in the last meeting also we got a very detailed 12 desceipti out the configuration of the plate and 13 the frame assembly.
We have passed this information to Doug 14 Hanson, and Doug is also a member of the techgical review 15 team.
He is a structural and a welding expert 16 Other than that, Doug will present to you about his 17 findings.
18 Now, specifically he will answer some of the 19 concerns especially whether such frame and the. plate assembly 1
20 is indeed a part of the penetration assembly to the l
l 21 containment wall, and whether it is related to the main steam CC penetration.
And also, based on his finding, what is the 23 safety significance.
And aiso what he found about the repaee 24 of defects.
q
}l 25 in alI t h.es e, we not only looked at Unit 1
\\
r 4
9 1
but we aiso looked at Unit R,
so he aiso 2
will present to you what we found about Unit 2.
S Doug, are you there?
l 4
MR. HANSON:
Yes.
5 MR. POSLUSNY:
Excuse tw, Doug.
Before you get 6
started, this is Chet.
71 8
fes.
I 9
MR. POSLUSNY:
Have we characterized your concern i
10 properly?
7 l
11 Yes, sir, very wel1 12 l
MR. POSLUSNY: Ma y, Doug, you can start l
i I
\\
l 13 MR. HANSON:
AII right.
This is Doug Hanson.
l l
14 Now, what we did was take the aliegation.and we 1
15 first reviewed Drawing 2323-SI-0511 16 MR. POSLUSNY:
Excuse me, can you speak a Iittie l
l 17 1ouder, Mr. Hanson?
18 MR. HAN2ON:
You bet.
Do I need to go over that 19 again?
20 MR. POSLUSNY Yes.
Repeat that:again.
21 MR. H ANSON :
It's Drawing CS28-St-0511 And we also i
22 reviewed a Gibbs & HiiI drawing 2328-S2-0508.
And the first 28 drawing was titled Reactor Buiiding Containment Liner Detai1 24 Sheet 1 25 The second drawing was titled Reactor Duilding
6 1
indications found.
2 1ay I ask a question?
Where were 3
these tests generated from?
l 4
MR. HANSON:
These were test reports from the 5
assembler.
G
_From the fabeicator?
7 MR. HANSON:
Let's see.
One was one was from --
l 8
Unit 2 was made by AUCO Stedi Corporation, and Unit I was made 9
by Teledyne-Brown.
And in neither case did we find any UT 10 reports that indicated any defects, and I noticed that en 1
11 noticed that on the one that you were concerned with, Unit 1,
12 which was made by Teledyne-Brown, that the plates were cut 13 into their respective parts and then UT'Ed at that time.
And 14 I went through every UT report and in each case they reported 15 no indications.
16
- Now, in order to have a. laminar tear, you have got 17 to have two things present:
18 You have got to have an inclusion or a lamination, 19 and y o'u have got to have a load that will be high enougn to 20 cause an indica. tion or these inclusions or f ami na t i ers to 21 start separating.
22 Now, we determined from the drawings that the tip 23 welds, they are welded to the top of these plates, aru Jull 24 penetration welds with a 3/S inch fillet The thickness is 25 approximately 5/Sths of an inch, and 5/Gths plus tho 9/Sths wo
I
]
7 1
feel does not induce enough stress into the part to cause a 2
laminar tear.
S We aiso now reviewed Brown & Root deficiency and 4
disposition reports when Unit 1 came on site, and they noted 5
then that there were some defective welds on the cadweld 6
sleeves to the frame part, and the frames were sent back to 7
Teledyne-Brown for repair, and then they were reshipped.
8 Do you have that DDR number?
9 MR. HANSON:
Okay, now, on the Unit 1,
the a
10 deficiency.and disposition report number was C-134.
9 __
11 Okay.
w -
12 MR. HANSON:
Okay, now, that was cIosed out after we la received them back on site on October 29th, 1975.
14 Now we went completely through those packages and we 15 found no NCRs or dispositions that indicated that there was 16 any Iaminations in those plates when they came in, and i 17 searched aiso through Unit 2,
the raceiving-inspection 13 package, and found no Iaminations or anything that indicated 19 there was any Iaminations.
But, nevertheless, what I did, 20 because there was that allegation, I went to the ASME Section 21 3
Division 1,
subsection ME4130, which the title of that 22 subsection is Repair of Materiais, and it indicated in there C3 that
- welI, let me read something to you what it said.
It 24 said if materiaIs originaily accepted or deIivered in which 25 defects exceeding the Iimits of ME2500 are known or discovered t
i 9
1 1
1 unacceptable weIds, Including cadweld sleeves to the top and i
2 bottoms of the frames.
3 Now these frames were again sent back to this l
4 manufacturer and they were repaired.
5 Okay, that was AUCC on that one; eight?
6 MR. HANSON:
Right AVCO Steel manufactured thu 7
frames for Unit 2.
e Uh-huh.
And when was that one cIosed 9
out?
10 MR. HANSON:
Okay, Iet me see.
I went ahead and 11 Iisted on my report the types of defects that wer e found.
12 There was cold lap, excessive undercut, porosity, arc strike, 18 weld cracking, lack of fusion, slag inclusion, weld splatter.
14 Now the inspection was done t b AtJS D 1 1-72.
Ckay.
15 After the rework, then AVCO Stool had Borrow 4G 16 Laboratories, which I think is located in Little Rock they 17 were inspected on June 1,
1976, and aiI the welds were found 1G to be acceptable.
19 (Jhat was that date7 20 MR.
HANSON:
On Juno July the Ist, 1970, they 21 wore inspected by Gorrow 4G.
22 Okay.
OS MR. HANSON:
Now the report to the Drown /. Hoot 24
.natoriai equipment control report -- and thu number on tnat 25 was 1672, showed that the f r amos wore accontabIo an1 eoIousod
t1 1
out that frame and the plate assembly is not a part of the 2
containment penetration assembly, 8
MR. HANSON:
R Lgh t.
4 1 determined from those drawings, it looked like 5
that the rebar now visuall=e that these penetrations that 6
we are talking about now are below the mat liner, below the 7
floor of the contain-ent.
It looked like that these rebars 8
extended up into the wall of the containment 10 or 12 feet, 9
and they weren't connected, they were more or less just 10 anchoring that, that penetration in that particular location.
11 And then it 9as extended further down into the pit area.
into 12 the wall of the containment.
But l 't did not tie into the 13 rebar structure of the whole unit.
And these pipes these' 14 penetrations that ran through~these frames is a 24-inch 15 diameter.
l 16 And that is about the extent of what we found when 17 we went through these packages.
18 MR. POSLUSNY:
T h i,s is Chet 19 oes it sound Iike we've hit the mark 20 on what you were concerned about as far as the structuros?
21 1 beIleve you found the structures, 22 ye.s, s i t-20 T1R. POSLUSNY:
Ohay.
Do you have any ccmmentc on 24 what we have come up with?
25 Yes, str, I have a coupie of'
12 1
comments.
2 MR. POSLUSNY Okay.
3 First of alI, do you beiieve that 4
these structures are --
5 MR. HANSON:
I can hard1y hear you.
6 Do you believe that these structures 7
would be in tension under an accident condition, whereas the 8
containment' building is under pressure?
9 MR. HOU his is Dr Hou again.
10 That frame and the plate assembly you mentionod i
11 actually is for connecting the rebar.
A certain portion will 12 be in tension under the accident condition, but this is not 13 part of the containment penetration assembly.
So that itseI(
14 would not affect the containment integeity during an accident 15 conditlon.
16 MR. HANSON:
Right That's what I feei And I fooI 17 that even if these rebars were in tension that they are not at 13 a high enough level to cause a l a m i. n a r tear, I have done 19 quite a bit of work with laminar tearing on 4-30 material, 20 mainly because that materia 1 is a much dietier materiaI, and we had acoustic emissions hooked up to our 21 we found 20 testing, and we found that in most c a.s o s ycu have got to 23 aImost come up to the yieId point before you start tho tear at 24 ail, and thun it may run just a fraction of an inch and it 25 wIll Go out, and thon it takes more Ioad to start it aga n.
i
l lO 13 1
And checking with the civii engineers down there, thoy gave me 2
a figure of like design to 45,000 psi, which is considerably 3
below the yield of the material, and I doubt that anything is 4
designed to that level I would be very much surprised if it 5
is that high.
6
' The structures are designed to be 7
used in tension, then, is that correct?
8 MR. HOU:
That is correct.
9 Okay.
10 MR. HOU:
That is what rebar is for, to take 11 t en s i on.
12 The rebar is connected so that it 13 would be in the Z direction.
I 14 MR. HANEON:
Right.
But if you wiII look at those 15 particular frames now we are talking about two-inch platos, 16 and we are talking about full penetration welds, and we build 17 those frames which wouid be a very you know, a much more 13 massive weId than that retsar.
That cadweid sIeeve to that t or:
19 plate.
Directly below that, there is a two-inch weld, 20 two-inch fulI penetration weld.
21 Lot me toil you this, though, your 00 fulI penetration welds that you are talking about has 100 23 percent of the bove1 on t h er cadwold sIoeve.
It is weldec onfy 24 to the surface of that two-inch plato, 25 MR. HANSON:
Right.
14 1
The more weld you put on there --
2 MR. HANSON :
On the other side of that, the main S
piece up against that plate is welded on the surface, too.
4 That's correct So the more wuld you l
5 put on there, you are talking about the extent of weld that G
you are using.
The more weld you put on there, the more 7
tension you are loading it with.
3 MR. HANSON:
No, because after the frame was welded, 9
prior to welding on the cadweld, the frame was 10 stress-relieved.
Any stress that was put in there by that l
11 weld was at that time relieved.
We are back to ground zero.
12 That brings up another questlon.
l 18 They were also ultrasonically inspected after the stress 14 relief, I presume?
15 MR. HANSON:
I could not substantiate that 10 Je l I,' they were uttrasonically 17 inspected after they were fabricated.
18 MR. HANSON:
I can't really substantiate that l
19 because i never saw any records that said they were UT'ed 20 after'--
that they were UT'ed after stress relief or after l
21 welding.
22 The only thing i saw was that they were UT'ed prior 28 to fabrication.
24 Okay.
25 MR.
HANGON:
And that's what the prints indicated to
l 15 1
do.
2 CPause.]
3 Then there was no laminar defects 4
found before they were fabricated?
5 MR. HANSON:
That's eight.
6 And after they were fabricated, by my 7
own experience, there were laminar defects that appeared 8
visually.
9 MR. HANSON:
tJe l l, if you couId te1I me where to 10 look, I would cortain1y be giad to look, but we went t h r' o u g h 11 those packages.
12 I would certainly Iike to telI you 1
l 13 where to go to look, and I would Iike to oe able to find l 't in 14 my own files, but they disappeared.
15 MR. HANSON:
Because, you know, we went clear 16 through those packages, and there were no -- no records that I
1 17 showed that there were any Iaminatiens in any of those frames.
18 MR. POSLUSNY:
Jlm, are you insinuating that you did 19 document the Iaminations?
20 No, sir, I'm not insinuating, I'm 21 te1Iing you outright that I did.
lJe spunt a week repaieing 22 those things, and where those reports went is a good question l
23 MR.
POSLt)SNY Ohay.
24 MR.
HANSON:
- See, there may be another package that l
l 25 we don't i<now about, the instaiIation package.
~~ -
\\
16 1
Yeah, but I wonder what happened to 2
it.
3 MR. HANSON:
I don't know.
But, you know, whnt we 4
went through -- I would think that if there was faminations in 5
those pIates when they were received, it wouid have,been --
6 receipt and inspection should have seen it 7
They certainly did see it G i t;b s A 8
Hill engineer saw them, Brown & Root saw them.
The site 9
welding engineer saw them, and I saw them.
10 MR. HANSON:
(Je i I, I reaIiy don't have any concern l
11 with the laminations if they came to the surface and they went l
l 12 ahead and repaired them, because the code says you are allowed I
13 to do that.
14 But not without documentation.
15 And the code is also not addressing i
1 I
l 16 members that are used with a tensile f or c e -i n the Z direction.
l 17 MR, HOU:
Can you be more specific as to what 13.
documents a r.e indicated, so we wiIi be abie to take a icok?
19 MR. HANSON:
tJher e were the indications?
[Jer e they 20 on the edge of the plate, the tcp, t he-bot t em of the frame 21 pieces?
22 Yes.
23 MR.
HANSON:
You te!I me the top of the frame and 24 the bottom of the frame on the edge of the p1ates had 25 Iaminations showing?
17 1
And aIso back about six inches, every 2
place they were welded and had the stress of welding applied 3
to them, they pulled apart 4
MR. HANSON:
Now was this around the core of the 5
weld, on the top of the plate?
Or was this on the edge of the L
6 plate?
7 This was eight in the center of the G
plate.
9 MR. HANSON:
Okay.
On the edge, then?
10 No, not only on the edge, because you 11 recall this has two vertical members, one on the outside edge.
12 then one about six inches in.
i 13 MR. HANSON:
Yes.
14 Okay.
It pulled the plate apart at 15 both places.
)
5 16 MR. HOU:
A'n d you also indicated a while ago saying 17 that it's been repaired; eight?
But your on1y concern is 18 whetHer they have been dispositioned properly or not?
19 They were ground.out untii the l
20 laminations were nonvisible by Iiquid penettant inspection, 21 and then they were rewelded.
l 22 f1R. HANSON:
lJh a t was the depth of the grind-out?
L 23 1 don't recaii offhand.
It seems to i
24 me Iike they couId have gone down an inch.
i 25 MR.
Hf4NSON :
In an inch?
l l
?
I 13 1
Yes, sir 2
MR. HANSON:
LJh I ch is ailowed by the code.
S There again you are talking about 4
structura1 members such as columns that are not Ioaded in the 5
Z direction.
I belleve 6
MR. HANSON:
It doesn't say that 7
i know it does not say that.
But i S
beIieve if you wouId use some engineering common sense, you 9
wiIi find out that that wouid not be alIowed where stress is i
10 applied in the Z direction.
I'm saying 11 MR. HANSON :
But t'm telIing you that all right, you've ground'it down and dye-checked it 12 that 18 until you did not have any more laminations.
Thesefore, that 14 lamination or defect was removed.
15
'es,, sir, that showed up at the time.
16 MR. HANSON:
In essence, you have got a sound piece 17 of material 13 In essence, we have a piece of 19 materlai that we know for a fact is prone to Iaminar teneing 20 and there are only two ways to eIiminate'Iaminar tearing:
21 That is to find the material that is not s u b,i e c t to 22 laminar tearing or to redesign the structure to where trere ie 23 not a laminar steess applied to it, and tha t-is a quote f r c t ri 24 George Leonard, t h.3 North famerican reprusentative of t h.e 25 Aerier i can LJelding Society.
- -~
19 1
MR. HANSON:
That might be t r ue, but if you remove j
2 the lamination, then you no longer have a teigger mechanism 3
for Iaminar tear to s t a r-t even if you apply stress.
A Iaminar 4
tear is different than a Iaminatlon.
In order to have a 5
Iaminar tear, you have got to have stress and you have got to, 6
have an inclusion.
You can't have a laminar t e a r-without an 7
inclusion.
e
, I disagree with that 9
MR. HANSON:
LJe I l,
I'm sorry, I can't help it 10 But you're saying that there wili not 11 be a stress applied.
12 MR. HANSON:
I'm saying that there is not enough 18 stress in the'Z direction applled to cause a l am i n a r-tear to 14 start.
'15 AlI right 16 MR. HANSON:
And if you don't have --
17 Then my chief concern wouId be what 18 happened to the reports where they were repaired.
I '9 MR. HANSON:
Like I said, now, we may not -- we 20 Iooked at the receiving-inspection reports.
I don't know 21 whether there is another package that installed those into 22 that unit that we don't know about, or not 23 (Jh en you checked this out, did you Iibe 24 check with somebody on the side, or did you just kind of 25 rummage tbrough the fiIes yourseIf, or how --
i 20 1
MR. HANSON:
We taIked to -- I went down first and 4
2 got the material for Unit 2.
I was thinking i had also the 3
stuff for Unit 1,
and then when I got back, I discovered I.
4 didn't, so then another fellow went down and got the m a t e r.i a l 5
for Unit 1,
and he d (dn ' t telI me who he taIked to, but he 6
said he talked to an engineer that knew about them, and helped 7
him find the materials that he got.
I talked to S
receiving-inspection and jogged their memory and then they 9
remembered and went back through their files and gave me a a
10 number, and then from that I pulled the material out of the 11 vault.
12 And you didn't find anything in your --
18 MR. HANSON:
Not a thing.
14 Okay.
And you didn't flnd anything that 15 was just dispo'sitioned "use as is"?
16 MR. HANSON:
The only thing i found, you know, in 17 the package, I found the UT report, I found the 18 receiving-inspection report that indicated that the welds 4
19 between the cadweld sleeve and the plate were not acceptable; 20 i found the report that they were shipped back to the 21 manufacturer; I found the report that said they were repaired, 22 that the weIds were then acceptabie; and then I found the 23 report that was shipped back to the site, and the report that 24 said they were released to conhtruction as being' acceptaoIe 25 That is why I say in aiI this inspection I cannot beIieve that L
^
21 1
they wouidn't -- if these defects were an inch or so Ieng, 2
that they wouldn't find them or wouldn't see them.
I S
Oh, they were longer than that They 4
were two, three inches long.
5 MR. HANSON:
That's what is confusing me, becausa if 6
receiving-inspection Icoked at them, why didn't they report 7
them?
'I think it was receiving-inspection 8
9 that noted them.
That's the way they were found.
10 MR. HANSON:
WelI, it cer-t a i n l y wasn ' t in the 11 package.
can beIieve
- hat.
12 gI 18 I think, Mr. Hanson, one of the probiems 14 that you are having is that you are assuming that you've been i
i that everyb6dy that you've talked with on all of this has 15 16 been upfront about what they've told you, and that you're 17 assuming that you're dealing with honest people who want to 13 see the p l an t-bu i l't right,'and who are, you know, on top of 19 the regulations and want to do it the right way.
- right, 20 MR. HANSON:
No, I'm looking at --
1'm 21 okay.
I'm also looking at it from my point of view as a 20 weIding engineer that, hey, even if they found these def.ects 29 in there, if they were repaired in accordance with AST1E 24 Section 3,
I really haven't got a concern.
And I don't have 25 any concern because the ioad that is appIied aceocs those is l
t I
22 1
not enough to cause a l am i nar-t ea r-2 Okay, now, did you find documentation 3
that they had been repaired?
4 MR. HANSON:
I did not 5
Okay.
6 MR. HANSON:
I did not find any documentation that 7
said, hey, we found Iaminations that were "X"
number inches S
long, this is what we've done to repair them, and that they 9
were acceptable after repair.
I did not find that a
10 documentation.
But if I found that documentation and it said 11 that, I would have no concern.
12 Did you taik to any of the people who 13 were in engineering or inspection at that time?
14
- Idait just a minute.
I tnink both of you 15 were talking at the same time there.
16 l'm sorry, go ahead.
17 MR. HANSON:
No, alI I'm saying is that A-SSS 13 material is a good structural material, and normally -- weIi, i
19 it's stressed that it was made to fine grain practices.
l 20 That's what it said in t'h e ASTr1 spec.
This indicates that it i
21 was a clean materiaf, would have very few inclusions, t
22 laminations in the material Now you've got to have those 23 t h i ng:s in order to have Iaminar tear You've got a 24 fino grained, c1een materiaI, I don't care how much stress you 25 put on it, if you don't have an inclusion, you don't got a L
~
23 1
Iaminar tear.
You might tehr the cadweid out of the pIate, 2
but you do not have a laminar tear.
3 CPause.]
4 (Je t 1, if that is the case,
- then, 1
.l c
5 wonder why the reports were removed from the file?
ii 11 ll f
6 MR. HANSON:
LJe l I, I can't say that they were.
I f
7 don't know that.
You can make that allegation, but I can't, S
because i don't know that.
9 MR. POSLUSNY:
hy den't you give us a 10 Iittle more information on when you think you remember doing 11 these reports or the documentation *that you are desceibing
~
12 here?
13 I belleve the date that he mentioned 14 in October of
'75, wasn't it?
15 MR. HANSON:
Uh-huh.
16 would be pretty close to the time 17 that we received them on the job and found the defects.
18 MR. POSLUSNY lJhat wouId;be the name or the type of 19 report or the documentation that wouId have been fifIed out 20 after you repaired them?
21 MR, HANSON:
(Jou i dn ' t thai have been put on an NCR9 22 Not nece.ssarily at Comanche Peak-W g;.
I'm not reai sure.
It was --
24 MR.
HOU:
Do you have the report number?
25 MR.
HANSON:
I went over and talked to those p e r.'p l e
...u w d
24 1
in the welding department.
2 Did you talk to any of the peopie who S
were there at that time?
4 MR. HANSON:
-- to go back and find this.
S
'D)d you taik to any of the peopie who 6
were there at that time?
7 MR. HANSON:
I don't know that 8
- I wouldn't think so, because i don't 9
think any of them are still there.
All I can say is, I saw 10 them, I oversaw the repair of them, I know they had laminar 11 tearing, I know that the Gibbs & Hill engineer knew there was 12 laminar tearing because he asked me personally what they were, 13 and after i told him, I got in trouble from' Brown & Root.
14 MR. HANSON:
Let me ask you this, though:
You say 15 you overlooked the repair of the laminations?
~
16 That is correct i
17 MR. HANSON:
tJere they acceptable?
I I can telI you is that the 18
] li l
19 laminations were ground out and we welded.
I l
20 MR. HANSON:
tJe l I, was the; inspection acceptabie 1
21 after the welding was completed?
.\\
~_
l 22 Yes.
23 MR.
HANSON:
Did they mag particIe them or v i siJa 1 24 them or --
25 They used Iiquid ponetrant
25 1
MR. HANEON:
UnIess you Iiquid-pen every pass --
2 Which they were not i
3 So the test that they did could very 4
well have been inconclusive, anyway, if that's the kind that 5
,they did; right?
6 MR. HANSON:
That*s correct If the Iamination w a:s 7
removed -- if the grind-out was 1iquid penned before the 8
reweld, which indicated that the lamination was gone, and then 9
they reweided, is not going to cause another lamination.
The l
10 only thing they are going to get then is maybe a defect from l
l l
J1 the welding, like maybe slag inclusion or something.
It is l
12 not going to cause another famination, if the Iamination is 13 gone.
[
WelI, you may be correct I wonder 14 15 what happened to the reports, though.
16 MR. HANSON:
If you took the Iamination out and the l
17 lamination is nothing than rolled in slag or something and you 18 grind it out, it's gone.
19 Okay.
But it does not eliminate that 20 materiai from hav i ncj the tendency to tear Iaminari1y.
I 21 MR.
HANSON:
It does if you don't have an 22 inclusion.
You have got to have an inclusion in order to have
)
29 a tear.
24 Okay, how can you say there is not an 25 inclusion?
l
~
l 20 1
MR. HANSON:
I can say,thero is no inclusion in 2
there from looking at the UT report which said there wasn't f
3 any.
4 But I am tei1ing you that even though 5
it says there wasn't any, that it tore after that.
So even --
6 there might not have been an inclusion, but the plate tore, 7
regardless.
l 8
MR. HANSON:
Let's say then that there was a laminar 9
tear caused by the welding.
We ground it out and we rewelded 10 it and we do not have a laminar tear any more, so we don't 1
1 11 hade a problem.
12 MR. HOU:
This.ls Ot. Hou again.
13 I think the problem of this interview is to try and 14 take this opportunity to inform you what we found about your 15 concerns.
Certainly we have tried our best to find out, but 16 at this moment, and based on our best effort, we would not be 17 able to substantlate But this -- certainly we 18 indicated that the report -- we may not have seen it, but you 19 yourself are not able to point out what is the number of the 20 report.
21 Now we certainly will try to find whether indeed 22 there is that kind of report there.
We will try our best, but 23 that's the only thing we can say.
But also I would like to 24 call your attention to this.
This is not the part of 25 containment penetration, so there is no safety concern to the
l '
l l
27 1
structural integrity of the containment.
And this is a very, l
i 2
very important point
/
3 And aiso we not oniy Icoked at Unit 1,
also we have 4
a generic concern on Unit 2.
We Icoked at both of them, and 5
we found that there is no problem.
And that at the moment, 6
based on what we can do, that is the concluslon at this time.
7
~ Mr Hou, are you trying to terminate the 8
interview or 9
MR. HOU:
No, no, no.
I am just saying it's hard to 10 find additional information, but if you do recall the number, 11 It would make our job easier.
But since you are not able to 12 find the number, the only t h i.n g we can do is the next time 13 when we go to the site, we will
.t a k e the opportunity to look 14 one more t'ime-and see whether there is such a report, because 15 based on the past, we have not been able to find it, and we 16 tell you the truth of what we've found.
17 Do you think that sounds reasonable?
18 Yes, sir.
The only thing I can say 19 is that I cannot give you a number because everything that I
/
~.
20 had in my file disappeared right after that event a
22 f 1R. HOU:
Ycu say you mispIaced it or somebody took 23 it?
24 1 did not mispIace it 25 MR, hot) :
Uut if you are what do you think,
28 1
without a number do you think we can be abie to. find that?
(Je 2
on1y tried by our luck.
LJe Icoked at a 1ot of documents S
reIated to the structurai assembIies you indicated, but we 4
were not able to find anything to substantiate your concerns 5
here.
But certainly we promise whenever we have the 6
opportunity, we are going to look one more time, but we do not 7
guarantee we wiIl be able to find it.
But based on alI the S
information up to this moment, we can tell you the conclusion 9
was as I stated a while ago.
M 10
- Okay.
why don't we Iet it go at 11 that for.new.
I'd Iike to talk with you some more about it 12 and also to see if I can find out some more information from 13 some other sources, and I would like also now to ask Chet, was 14
,there any investigation done as to why didn't 15 give this information to the NRC initially?
16 MR. POSLUSNY:
tJe i I, he must have given it to us in 17 some manner because we have the record of his a1iegation in 18 our file.
So it got to us prior t o me working on this 19 assignment.
20 MR. HANSON:
And I worked on this same ailegatIon, 21 only we went out on another branch, because that's what we 22 thought, you know, what he was taIking about, which was not 23 right And there's a report written on that part of it 24 Okay.
Could you give us the ailegation 25 number or something so we can tale a icok at that?
i i
h5 1
MR. HANSON:
tJe i I, I beIieve It is exactly the same 2
as this one.
8 MR. HOU:
Yes, the number is AtJ-44 I
4 LJha t was the number?
5 MR. POSLUSNY:
,AW-44.
6
~
Okay.
gave it to the 7
NRC.
It was just when you looked at it, you were looking for 8
something else, right?
9 MR. POSLUSNY:
Right.
And we didn't know what l
10 structure specifIcally untii we talked with last 11 month.
We didn't know how it was shaped until we did some 12 further checking on it.
13 MR. HANSON:
Right.
And as soon as told me, i
14 went down there and saw those frames.
I said that's exactly 15 what talking about.
j 16 Okay.
One other thing.
(Ja s there any 17 attempt made to check out the intimidation and harassment 13 aspects of this?
19 MR. HANSON:
No, because i never had that on my 20 allegation.
That may,have been covered by QA under another 21 number; I don't know.
22
)
Okay.
Could you check on that for us.
29 Chet?
24 MR, POSLUSNY:
Yes Maybe I'l1 a sl< you to -
maybe I
25 we can restate what the aspects were, because I can't off the 6,,= efea~ms.r~
- - - - - - - - -~---
SO 1
top of my head recalI this one.
So maybe we can-just L.
2 summartre that belefly.
3 I
Okay.
Could you go through
)
~-
4 happened when you discovered it, leading up to 5
6 1 don't know that i ever brought it 7
up to them, because I never beIieved that the reports wouId G
have been omitted from the Ille.
9 Okay.
10 But since they have not been abie to 11 find them, It kind of blends in wIth other things that 12 happened at that time.
13 Right after those were repaire'd, i 14 in other words, I had 15 direct communications with 16 1
i 17 and any incoming calis for me were denied, my access.
18 MR. POSLUSNY:
tJa s this because you detocted the 1
19 probIams or raised them?
- 20 was not tofd why.
21 MR.
POSLUSNY:
So you were told te
- e 24 MR.
POSLUSNY Then for some reason unbek nowns t - to 25 you
a1
.g 2
That's correct 3
This was after you brought this up?
4 5
G MR. HOU:
Any issues reIating to the intimidation is 7
reviewed by the other office of the TRT, which is the Office l
8 of Investigatlon, the other group.
9 MR. POSLUSNY:
I w l.1 I take this information and pass 10 it to them.
11 Let me go back on a point that just l
12 stated.
This is after brought this u What do you mean 13 by that;
]
14
_1 l
15 i
16 MR. POSLUSNY:
What did you tell him?
17 He asked me wha t caused that, and i 18 t o 'i d him it was a classic case of laminar tearing.
19 And what was that fellow's name, do you 20 remember?
21 I do not remember.
He was the
~i 22
]
23 f1R. POSLUSNY And subsequent to that the probiem 24 started?
25 That's correct
32 1
MR. POSLUSNY:
And they 2
3 4
"They were al1 y
5
}
7 MR. POSLUSNY:
Okay.
And this was approximately I
I 3
what date?
9 1'd say around j
/
10 something like that.
11 MR. HANSON:
LJer e the frames installed at that time?
12 1 belleve they were in the process of 13 being-installed.
I 14 MR. HANSON:
or thereabouts?
l 15 Based on y recollection.
16 MR. HANSON:
Okay.
17 Okay.
In --
15 I had sketches showing all the 19 def ec t:s on each frame in my desk 20 LJhen I gathered up aii my mate, rials to leave, they were no 21 longer there.
I 22 MR.
POSLUSNY Okay.
It just seems odd to me that 23 the on1y verbaI action that you initiated w a:s just teiiing o n.a 24 weiding engineer about the probiem and --
25 I also told the Brown & Root welding L__
SS 1
engineer.
l l
l 2
MR. POSLUSNY:
But it was more of a casual rather l
3 than a weitten type report you.were giving somebody; eight?
4 Yes.
,5 MR. POSLUSNY:
I'm just looking for something a 6
little more severe for them to take an action upon, you know.
7 We've had some other incidents which I won't go into where it 8
was clear what was going on, but here you're only mentioning 9
something to so"ebody.
10 Do you feel that it was expected that you were not 11 supposed to find these kinds of things, just pass by them?
12 What are you asking me?
13 MR. POSLUSNY:
Do you feel that it was expected of 14 you that you would pass by these probisms and not address l
15 them?
16 1 felt that I should not have toid 17 Gibbs & Hii! what the problem was.
I don't feeI that anybody 18 else on the site knew what the problem was.
j 10 MR. POSLUSNY:
I see.
20 Or what caused the problem.
21 MR.
POSLUSNY-Okay.
AII right That's about ali I J
22 have.
Is there anything else you'd Iike to say, Dr.Hou?
23 MR.
hot) :
No.
24 MR.
POSLUSNY:
Do you have any t h i ng. f ur-t her you'd 25 Iike to add for the record i
54 1~
No, sir 2
MR. POSLUSNY:
Okay.
Have we adequate 1y covered S
your concerns?
This is a stock question.
4 As far as you can, I guess so.
I 5
have a problem now with the fact that you cannot find the 6
reports.
7 MR. POSLUSNY:
Right.
Understood.
That's part of 8
the record.
/
9 I aIso have a problem with the fact 10 that these members are in tension and you don't believe that 11 laminar tearing will be a problem.
l
.1 2 MR. POSLUSNY:
Okay.
We take that as part of the 13 record.
14 Okay.
15 MR. POSLUSNY:
Have you r;iven this statement to us 16 freely and voluntarily?
17 Yes.
13 MR.
POSLUSNY Fine.
I want to thank you for your 19 time and, as I said, we wilI be sending you a copy of this 20 transcript.
21 se t, could you send me a copy of the 22 transcript that you have already fand the 23 copy of this one?
24 MR. POSLUSNY-Fine.
I wili send you a copy of both 25 of them.
w
4 1
CERTIFlCATE OF OFFiCIHL CEpORTER 2
0 4
5 This is to certify that the attached proceedings t
G before the United States NucIear Regu I a t or y Comm i s s i on in the 7
matter of:
s 9
Name of proceeding:
(Closed Meeting) Telephone Conference Call Alleger Feedback Discussion - Comanche Peak 10 11 Occket No.
O e
15 were heId as herein appear s and that this is the or-i g i n a l l
16 transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nu c l e a r-I 17 Regulatory Commission.
Is (S igna ture)
!' pNd 19 (Typed Name of Reporter)
And Riley 20 21 22 23 Ann RiIey & Associates, Ltd.
24 25
(
r~
l hh? l 7 -M45 MM':
i t
i l
4 I
l Re:
Transcript of Feedback Interview Enclosed is one copy each of transcr' f feedback meetinas c uc+ad b
, i telephone conference call on i
We appreciate your participa on in such meetings in that they contribute to the resolution and close-out of open licensing issues.
)
Vincent S. Noonan, Director i
Comanche Peak Project l
f i
Enclosure:
As stated l
cc:
M. E. Kline j
- CPP
- CPP 1E :CPoslusny
- VSNoonan IE :
/ /85
/ /85 7'M45MGb 0FFICIAL RECORD COPY l
l 1
i I
v?
e
,=e i
)
ty 9
'DRA F T~,$
7-/ 7-f5 i
'7 6 Thank you for allowing our technical reviewers the opportunity to discuss their prel.
inary findin s regarding your concerns about the Comanche Peak Facility Enclosed for your review and comment is a copy of the 1
on transcript of th
_ conference call interview.
Should you have~any questions, please contact me, or Mr. Chet Posiusny of my staff, by calling collect on (301) 492-7903.
Sincerely, Vincent S.'Noonan
~
Project Director for 1
Comanche Peak
Enclosure:
As stated i
cc:
M.E. Kline
- CPP
- CPP E :CPoslusny
- VSNoonan r_:--_______..:____________:________.._:____________:____________.____________._____.____
E-
/ /85
/ /85 fsw2
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7-/7FFICIAL RECORD COPY 0
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~DO NOT J'SC_0SE 6
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10 11 12 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 13 Technical Review Team Staff 14 15 16 l
i 17 I
18 19 20 h
30 N0-31SC' OS9 2'
s
,y t
b' 23 24 25 Taken by:
Carmen Gooden, CSR, RPR December 10, 1984
1 I
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
TECHNICAL REVIEW TEAM 3
4 TECHNICAL INTERVIEW a
~
l 6
Monday, December 10, 1984 I
Granbury, Texas i
s i
I This interview was commenced at 2:30 p.m.
10 PRESENT:
11 MR. JOHN J.
ZUDANS Technical Review Team Staff 12 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D. C.
20555 13 MR. VINCE NOONAN
- 11. l Technical Review Team Staff Nuclear Regulatory Commission i
13 ;
Washington, D. C.
20555 16 MR. JIM MALONSON l
4 Technical Review Team Staff I
17 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington,D. C.
20555 IS MR. CLIFF HALE 19 Technical Review Team Staff Region 4 20 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Arlington, Texas 21 MR. T. E.
CURRY
~[*Jp 22 Technical Review Team Staff Nuclear Regulatory Commission E(
s 2
1 P RESENT :
(Continued) 2 MR. VIC WENCZEL.
Technical Review Team Staff 3
Nuclear Regulatory Commission Idaho Falls, Idaho 4
MR. VERN WATSON 5
Technical Review Team Staff Nuclear Regulatory Commission 6
,s. &s 7
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MEMORANDUM FOR:
V. Noonan, Director Comanche Peak Project FROM:
H. H. Livermore, QA/QC Group Leader
SUBJECT:
OPEN TRT STAFF COMMITMENTS In the exit meeting with allegers conducted at e' N ' + 4 % A,+vm4%
M]tigatory nature.you and Mr. Zudans made commitments to perform addition inves Most of the verbal commitments were made while discussing the QA/QC group allegations (AQ) and therefore may possibly' delay final release of the SSERs.
These items are detailed in the transcri:t on pages 23, 30, 81, 82, 83, 94, 98, 101, 102, 103, 107, 111-114, 121-123, 157, 158, 163-165.
Please advise as to your or Mr. Zudans' follow up or disposition of these items.
Wc7'-
H. H. Livermore, TRT QA/QC Group Leader cc:
J. Zudans
' C. Poslusny A. Vietti i
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