ML20138P995
| ML20138P995 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 12/17/1985 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 8512260386 | |
| Download: ML20138P995 (88) | |
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OMGINAL UNITED STATES OF AMERICA h NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION In the matter oft COMMISSION MEETING Briefing on Nuclear Employee Data System (NEDS)
(Public Meeting)
Docket No.
Location: Washington, D. C.
Dates Tuesday, December 17, 1935 Pages: 1 - 65
- -ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES Court Reporters
( 1625 I St., N.W.
N-0512260306 051217 Suite 921
' Washington, D.C. 20006
' Yh. 7 P PDR (202) 293-3950
1 O I SCLA I M ER 2
3 4
5 6 This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the 7 United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on s 12/17/85 . In the Commission's office at 1717 H Street, 9 N . tJ . , Washington, D.C. The meeting was open to public 10 attendance and observation. This transcript has not been -
11 reviewed, corrected, or edited, and it may contain 12 inaccuracles.
13 The transcript is intended solely for general 14 informational purposes. As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is 15 not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the 16 matters discussed. Expressions of opinion in this transcript 17 do not necessarily reflect final determination or beliefs. No 18 pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in 19 any proceeding as the result of or addressed to any stafement 20 or argument contained herein, except as the Commission may 21 authorize.
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~1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 . . .
4 ERIEFING ON NUCLEAR EMPLOYEE DATA SYSTEM (NEDS) 6 PUBLIC MEETING
?
8 Room 1130 l 9 1717 H Street, N.W.
10 Washington. D.C.
11 Tuesday, December 17, 1985 12 13 The Conmission met, pursuant to notice, in open 14 session at 2:07 p.m.
1
, 15 4
16 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
17 NUNZIO J. PALLADINO, Chairman of the Commission r
18 THOMAS M. ROBERTS, Commissioner 4
19 FREDERICK M. BERNTHAL, Commissioner j-
- '0 2 JAMES K. ASSELSTINE, Commissioner a
21 LANDO W, ZECH, Jr., Commissioner i 22 STAFF AND PRESENTERS SEATED AT COMMISSION TABLE:
23 H. PLAINE I
24 S. CHILK 25 P. MOELLER 4
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.O 2
1 W. BRITZ 2 J. BAVLISH 3 D. SUTTON 4 AUDIENCE SPEAKERS:
5 C. Ooller 6
7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
e
- 3 1 P ROC E ED I NG S 2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Good afternoon, ladies and 3 gentlemen. Commissioner Bernthal has been detained but he 4 will be joining us shortly. I
$ This afternoon, at Commissioner Roberts' request, 6 the Commission is meeting with representatives from several 7 Mid-Atlantic utilities to discuss the development of the 8 Nuclear Employee Data System, commonly referred to as NEDS.
9 My understanding is that NEDS is an industry initiative that 10 when implemented is intended to minimize the possibility of 11 transient worker radiation over-exposure, upgra,de current 12 security screening, standardize access, training and testing 13 and provide auditable records documenting compliance with NEDS 1
14 standards, 15 The Commission is interested in how such a system 16 would work with regard to current NRC requirements. I think 17 the Commission would also be interested in learning the extent 18 to which NEDS is a nationwide initiative or is it a regional 19 initiative.
20 I would ask that each of the speakers identity 21 himself before giving his presentation. Unless other 4
22 Commissioners have turther comments, I would turn the meeting 23 over to Mr. Moeller, Chairman of the NEOS Steering Committee 24 and Manager, Site Protection at Public Service Electric and 26 Gas Company in New Jersey.
4 1 Any opening comments?
2 [No response.]
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Thank you. We are pleased to 4 have you with us, gentlemen, and we welcome you.
5 ME. MOELLER: Good afternoon. And it is a pleasure o to be here. We come bringing good news.
7 As you said, my name is Peter Moeller and I am with 8 Public Service Electric & Gas Company and am the Chairman of 9 NEDS. I*d like to introduce to my left, Wayne Britz, who 10 heads our Health Physics Steering Committee; John Bavlish who 4
11 heads the Security Steering Committee; and our Project Program 12 Manager, Dick Sutton from IEAL.
13 [ Slide.]
14 And the second slide.
15 [ Slide.]
16 This afternoon it's our intention to in fact briet 17 you on the Nuclear Employee Data System and give you a short 18 history of how we got to where we are, the objectives of the 19 system, we will give you individual presentations on each of 20 the tour main subject areas and talk a little bit about the 21 implementation schedule, and of course, entertain questions 22 and answers at any time that you would like.
23 [ Slide.]
e 24 The industry has talked about a system or a common 25' way of transferring information between utilities for many
t 1 years, and in approximately the June 1983 timeframe we put 2 together a meeting at EEI headquarters that consisted of 3 representatives from all five regions, and of course, because 4 it was in Washington, there were quite a few from the Eastern 5 Seaboard. And we put together the NEDS Implementation Task 6 Force.
7 The objective of the-task force was, in fact, to 8 explore the various ways of implementing a system or sharing 9 information to expedite the in-processing for unescorted 10 acceas to nuclear power plants. It became obvious to us very 11 early on that one of the first things we should do is to run 12 this on a pilot program basis. And in fact, we have put 13 together six utilities which form the NEDS group, and they 14 consist of General Public Utilities, Public Service Electric &
15 Gas Company, Pennsylvania Power & Light, Philadelphia Electric, le Virginia Electric and Baltimore Gas & Electric.
17 These six utilities banded together and in fact form 18 the core of NEDS. We call ourselves the Pilot Utility Group 19 Steering Committee, and under that committee elected to look 20 at the four basic areas that were necessary for in-processing.
21 These areas are medical, health physics, training and 22 security. There are a few subgroups that I will talk about in 23 a second that fit into that, but those are the tour basic ones.
24 As with any good group, we felt that we should also 05 have- a few other subgroups in there. The one called the
6 1 Design Control Group started out as our computer subcommittee 2 and we utilized them to look at the specifications for a 3 hardware system ter, in fact, sharing this information.
4 In addition, we have a legal group that is comprised 5 of lawyers from each one of the utilities and has looked over e the entire program from the legal standpoint.
7 No program would be complete without quality 8 assurance, and we do'have a standing quality assurance group 9 that will be very active, and we'll explain exactly how we 10 will put quality a s s str a nc e on this program.
11 [ Slide.]
12 As I indicated previously, the basic objective of 13 NEDS is the expeditious, and in a standard format, processing 14 of information necessary for transient workers to gain 15 unescorted access to nuclear power plants. The data that we 10 intended to collect and make available across this network 17 started out with personal data, which would be the mechanism 18 for identifying the individual, things like social security 19 number, name, address and such; security information which 20 would be she first hard piece of information; health physics 21 data, respiratory protection equipment qualitication. That 22 goes together somewhat with the medical The two sort of 23 dovetail together. And of course, training.
24 I*d like to emphasize from the beginning that the 25 type of data that we are talking about placing on the system
7 1 per se talls into two basic categories. The information that 2 is health physics data is actually what I'm going to call hard 3 data. It has actual dose records, a wide spectrum of dose 4 data, and I'll let Wayne go into that in detail.
5 The rest of the data that's on the system I am going 6 to call results data, and by that I mean if there is a 7 screening done as far as security is concerned, the actual 8 information that is obtained during that screening is not put 9 on the system. The results of the screening is placed on the 10 system; that the man, in fact, was granted access or was not 11 granted access successfully. And the same thing in the 12 training area.
13 We are utilizing the INPO training standard. Again, 14 the actual test the man takes would not be placed on the 15 system; the fact that he successfully passed the test would be 16 placed on the system.
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What sort of training would 18 this involve? I'm not quite clear.
19 MR. MOELLER: It's the radiation protection requal 20 training, or qualification and requal training, and there is a 21 standard that has been put together by INFO which many 22 utilities have elected to abide by. And that has become the 23 standard in the training area.
24 With that, I'd like to turn the presentation over to 25 Wayne Britz, who will --
8 1 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS- Let me interrupt to make sure 2 I understand. What is the population that you're aiming for?
3 Are.these craft workers?
4 MR. MOELLER: Basically craft workers, transient 5 workers. Those people who are, on a fairly repetitive basis, 6 requiring access to different sites.
? CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: They would not be working with 8 radiation, would they?
9 MR. MOELLER: Oh, yes.
10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: While they're --
11 MR. MOELLER: Yes. This could be --
12 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I was thinking during 13 construction, are you talking about?
14 MR. MOELLER: Oh, I'm sorry, no. This would be 15 after fuel load; when the requirements for access are placed 16 into ettect.
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Okay. I was putting them in a 18 different timeframe when you said craft workers.
19 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: How many workers might be 20 involved nationwide in that kind of activity? Outage work, 21 those kinds of things.
22 MR. BRITZ: I don *t remember the data otthand.
23 There is an NESP report published on that, on the transient 24 worker, which does describe it. Somehow, the number 77,000 25 rings a bell but I'm not sure.
9 '
9 1 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Well, how many in your 2 region?
3 MR. MOELLER; We would probably say that there are 4 about 400 people per plant on the float. And by that I mean 5 you may assemble 1000 people, but they may be from various --
6 or who have been to variuos plants. To get a firm fix on it 7 is somewhat difficult because they not only are in the region, 8 but they move out of the region. We see plates in our parking 9 lot from literally around the United States, and there is a 10 common swing that workers take from the South and up the Coast 11 and back down again -- somewhat with the weather.
12 So it*s a little bit difficult to get your arms 13 around it, but probably 11 you took the number of sites and 14 multiplied it times 400 you may come out with a rougn 15 estimation.
16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Now, is this a regional effort, 17 or is there any effort being made on a national scale? Or 18 what other efforts are going on, it this is a regional effort?
19 MR. MOELLER: This effort, NEDS, is an effort of the 20 six utilities. It happens to overlap into two regions. There 21 are some efforts in other regions. In fact, in each of the 22 other regions -- and probably one of the more active ones is 23 in Region III But in general, those. regions have been in 24 contact with us, In fact, we have gone out to them in many 25 instances and told them what we are doing.
10
,. 1 We, again, are a pilot organi:ation; we are basically 2 a year or two out in front of anyone 11 they were to start 3 today, and those other regional groups are watching us 4 closely. They are forming up now so that 11 this is successful 5 -- and we have every reason to believe it will be successful --
6 that they from an organization standpoint would be ready to, so
? to speak, buy into our standards and procedures. And we'll 8 talk about those as we go along.
9 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: So you envision this as 10 eventually becoming a national effort?
11 MR. MOELLER: Yes.
12 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: As you get into the next 13 area, the health physics area, could you sort of set the stage 14 a bit by describing what you did before you had NEDS, or what 15 other utilities that aren't participating in this process do.
16 And I guess I'm particularly interested in the 17 number of transient workers that may be involved in high 18 exposure kinds of activities; pipe replacements, steam 19 generator repairs -- how you make sure that those people who 20 might have reached their annual dose limit at one place don't 21 come to another place, simply not tell the truth about wnat 22 the dose they received previously was, and simply build on 23 foses -- how you guard against that kind of action.
24 MR. BRITZ: Okay. I will begin by answering your 25 questions. Hight now, a craft worker or transient worker s-
11
,, 1 comes in; he has to sit through the general employee training 2 and the radiation worker training it he's going to work in a 3 radiation area. That varies from utility to utility, but 4 generally it's around a two-day process.
5 With the standardization of these tests and training 6 with INFO, we'll be able to take another utility's verification 7 that the training has been completed within a year and then 8 just train them on site-specific data. So you save some effort 9 there.
10 But where you really benefit is on the radiation 11 exposure data. Right now, 11 you want to expose a person 12 above the 1 1/4 rem per quarter, you have to get all his 13 background data. Normally, you want that data anyway so you 14 send to all the places that he's worked to get the hard copy 15 data from them. That takes time, it takes several days.
16 Under this system, you'll have the data -- as long 17 as the utilities are NEDS participants, the data will be 18 online and you can process him in right away. It also gives 19 you better assurance that you have all his dose data; that J
20 he's not neglecting to tell you some places that he worked.
21 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Do you primarily now have 22 to rely upon the individual putting down -- ? I mean, I know 23 when I go on a site you fill out the form, says where you have 24 been --
25 MR. BRITZ: Yes, you have to rely on him telling you l
1
12 1 where he's been, and then you send away for the records.
2 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: So 11 he leaves one out, 3 there's no way you have of knowing whether in fact he did that 4 or not.
5 MR. BRITZ: That's right. And this would prevent 6 him from doing that as long as all utilities belong to it.
7 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: I always wondered what 8 these employees did to get a fairly high dose in a high 9 activity area, say in two or three months, get their annual 10 dose -- what do they do the other nine months of the year. Is 11 it_really realistic to expect that those people then go and 12 sit home and simply wait for the next year to roll around, or 13 do they simply take the risk and go ahead and do the work 14 elsewhere as well.
15 MR. BRITZ: This, in combination with INPO's desire 16 to keep doses down and urge everyone including centractors to 17 keep doses below 5 rem is going to enable everyone to watch 18 their doses much closer than they have in the past.
19 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What about doses as they get in 20 medical treatment? Is there any ettort to include that*
21 MR. BRIT 1: No, they are not required to be included.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What about the time -- you said 23 you can get this promptly. Do they anticipate that utilities 24- would put this on the system in time enough so you could use 25 it?
13 1 MR. BRITZ: There are requirements regarding the 2 time at which it must be put in, and that will be part of the 3 Quality Assurance Program, to make sure they are couplying 4 with the standards laid down.
5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What is that timeframe, or are 6 you going to discuss it?
i
? MR. BRITZ: It varies from two days to 14 days, 8 depending on the type of data. If you want something faster, 9 you can just call up and ask for it faster and ask them to put 10 it on the system.
11 [ Commissioner Bernthal enters the meeting.]
12 MR. SUTTON: The computer itself actually monitors i
13 the amount of time that you take. If you're late, it counts 14 how many times you're late, so we can monitor that from a 15 central QA type standpoint.
10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What would take 14 days to get 17 on the system? A reading?
18 MR. BRIT 2: Some of the final exposure data from 19 your dose of record, such as TLD or islm data. Realistically, 20 that could be done within the same day, in most cases.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: All right. Good.
22 MR. BRITZ: I'm going to describe the health physics 23 input into the NEDS, which includes the requirement to o c>m p l y 24 with NRC Forms 4 and $, which is the dose of record.
25 [ Slide.J
14 1 I am going to be describing the historical exposure 2 record, the quarter to cate exposure record, year to date and 3 the lifetime whole body exposure and dose limit.
4 First of all, I want to point out some of the 5 regulatory enhancements that we'll have through the NEDS.
6 There will be better control and knowledge of individual
? exposure data, which we just talked about. There's been a lot 8 of media interest in this area; there's also been some 9 congressional interest, and the GAO has been asked to put out 10 a report on the transient worker and just how much exposure 11 they are receiving.
12 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Is this a pretty constant
+
13 population, or is it constantly changing? ,
14 MR. BRITZ: There is an element of it that does 15 change, but there is quite a group that does travel around 16 from site to site. For example, Westinghouse has a group that 17 go around and do certain jobs like refuelings, steam generator 18 plugging, work like that. So there's quite a group that you 19 do see going from site to site. All your health physics 20 technicians -- they are in the industry for a number of years 21 and they go all over the country, e
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What about the non-transient 1
23 workers? Are you going to try to include them eventually?
24 MR. BRITZ: No. Just the ones that are the 25 transients; the ones that go from site to site. We're
, =
15 1 interested in controlling their doses and minimizing the input 2 time to clear them into a site.
3 MR. MOELLER: Now that could also include people 4 from a different utility. Por instance, our utility has been
$ utilizing a cooperative program with Pennsylvania Power &
6 Light for our Hope Creek Station. We've been sending people 7 to Susquehanna. And 11 this system had been online we could B have taken those people and put them on the NEDS and basically 9 transferred the information to PP&L such that they would have 10 access. But the need for the system comes up in that 11 transfer. If you were to remain at one utility for all of 12 your life, the need to go on NEDS wouldn't necessarily be 13 there.
14 It doesn't mean that you couldn't be put on, and it 15 doesn't mean that sometime oft in the future you may, in fact, 16 use this as a company central recordkeeping system. But it's 17 not where we are today.
18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: It's not your intent to expand 19 that, at least for the moment?
20 MR. MOELLER: It's not the intent today.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: But even then, within a given 22 utility -- and I'm thinking of a utility that has quite a 23 number of plants -- people might move around. Not quite so 24 frquently. Okay, just trying to understand.
25 MR. BRIT 2: So once this cata is entered, the we
16 1 will track the transient worker from there on. It's only 11 2 he goes to a utility who would not be a NEDS participant that 3 you wouldn't have the data on tile. But each time a worker 4 comes in, you would ask him it he has been -- you would ask 5 him what areas he had been to, and then you could check and 6 verity that the information is in NEDS already, otherwise ask 7 the non-participant for the data.
8 There will be a timely termination reporting 9 capability. This is much taster than the mail, and the 10 estimate and the record of dose data can be entered on a more 11 timely basis.
12 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: How long does that take 13 now?
14 MR. BRITZ: Well, it depends upon the mails and how 15 tast the other utility responds, so it can take several days.
16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Or even longer, because 11 this 17 is going to have a timetrame for some pieces of data of 14 18 days, it must be at least that long now.
19 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Yes. In tact, I guess a 20 couple of the ones I have gotten are like a month after I have 21 been to the plant when the notice finally gets to me.
22 MR. BRITZ: That's a requirement; that it be out 23 within a month afterwards.
24 This will also improve the validity of the data, 25 thus reducing the risk of overexposure to employees. As I
a 17 1 mentioned before, it would reduce the factor of a person 2 eliminating some of his data. Also, with additional CA in the 3 system, it improves the data. There will be standards that 4- they will have to follow for input of this data.
5 [ Slide.]
6 The historical exposure record is necessary for the
? NRC Ferm 4 requirements. This is especially if you're going 8 to expose a person over 1 1/4 rem for a working quarter. So 9 this file will include the dates of employment, period of the 10 exposure, the whole body exposure and the whole body exposure 11 status --
whether or not it's dose of record or it's an 12 estimate or if the dose is unknown.
13 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Do you have an idea for 14 how many, roughly, of that 77,000 transient population that 15 you mentioned would generally tall each year in that --
16 exceeding that quarterly exposure?
17 MR. BRITZ: No, I don't have an idea of that. I'm 18 not sure 11 that was in the NESP report. I know we do have a 19 number of personnel who are over S rem in there but I'm not 20 sure about the over 1 1/4.
21 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Okay.
22 MM. BRITZ: Nowadays, a lot of the requests for 23 exposures over those limits are becoming less and less as we 24- approve the ALARA programs for different Jobs. It's only 25 certain jobs like steam generator replacement or pipe
18 1 replacements wnero you might have to exceed that 2 [ Slide.]
3 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Is that a fairly small and 4 specialized group within the 77,000 who do that kind of work?
5 MR. BRITZ. No, it doesn't need to be specialized.
6 There's just a lot of general labor work that needs to be done 7 in some of those areas, so it's a combination.
8 Quarter to date exposure is required for the 9 termination person during a calendar quarter. This includes, 10 again, his date of employment, the period of the exposure.
11 Here you get into 'he whole body exposure as well as the 12 extremities and the skin and it flags the MFC hours -- maximum 13 permissible concentration hours --
the number of hours that 14 are greater than 40 in a seven-day period. These are all the 15 requirements that are in 10 CFR 20 that are required on a 16 quarterly basis, and that's why these will be pulled out in 17 this file, 18 [ Slide.]
19 Then the year to datW exposure because you are 20 concerned about 5 rem or the five times N-18. So this just 21 includes the employment and the period of exposure and a 22 summation for the year.
23 [ Slide.]
24 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE. And all those things have 25 to be reported to us?
l
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19 1 MR. BRITZ: Yes.
2 COW 41 SS IONER ASSEL ST INE : But I suspect that we 3 don't do a whole lot of tracking of individuals to make sure 4 that when we get a report from one plant you don't have a
$ similar problem or a similar exposure at another plant within 6 the calendar year.
7 MR. BRITZ: The.. is some checking that is done to 8 make sure that there is no misinformation on the data. I know 9 Barbara Brooks takes a look at that.
10 MR. GOLLER: I am Carl Goller from the Ottice of 11 Research and we're responsible for maintaining the system that 12 he referred to, and we do do that checking annually. And the 13 information to date indicates that there are very few, very 14 tow, people that ever exceed the allowable limits.
15 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: So you actually pull a 16 random selection of names and trace them through all the 17 tacilities to make sure --
18 MR. GOLLER: Yes.
19 MR. SUTTON: I might add one thing, too. The system 20 itself will also check it any of those limits are exceeded 21 when the data is put on and will require the inputter ,t o 22 confirm that data to make sure he didn't make a mistake. So 23 it even has a monitoring above and beyond the QA that goes in.
24 MR. BRIT 2: It also sends out alerts to the different 25 utilities who have this person onboard, and alerts them when
20
. I any updating of data is done, too, so that other persons who 2 have had -- or'other utilities who have had this person in 3 their system will know about it.
4 The lifetime whole body exposure is also required 5 for the NRC Form 4. This is to keep track of his lifetime 6 exposure for the tive times N-18 rule. That rule may go away 7 in tuture regulation by either the NRC or the NCRP, but we do B have it today and we hr e to track it. It does permit you to 9 go above 5 rem per year, 10 [ Slide.]
11 Respiratory qualifications are also a part of the 12 program. Generally, we will give a person in processing the 13 respiratory requirements training and a fit test once a year, 14 so this file will record the equipment type that he is trained 15 on'and whether or not it was a Scott or MSA or Norton and so 16 forth. Also tne different types of respirators such as 17 half-tace or full face, and it records the fit test date and 18 the training date.
19 That*s the end of my presentation.
20 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Are there 100 kinds of 31 respirators or five?
22 MR. BRITZ: More on the order of 20.
23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: So you are training them on the 24 use of this equipment?
25 MR. BRITZ: Yes.
21 1 MR. MOELLER: Thank you, Wayne. I*d like to move on 2 now to the security area. Again, John Bavlish --
3 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Can I ask you one question?
4 You may cover this under quality assurance. It an individual o feels that his or her dose was incorrectly measured or 6 incorrectly recorded, does that individual have a chance to 7 call that to NEDS* attention, or -- ?
8 MR. MOELLER: Let me answer that generically because 9 that could happen in any one of the four areas.
10 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Any system; I appreciate that.
11 But when computers are involved it*s harder to get changes 12 made.
13 [ Laughter.1 14 MR. MOELLER: Agreed. We were sensitive to that, 15 and in each individual area at each utility there is a contact 16 given, a man's name and his telephone number, and that is 17 there for many reasons. But certainly, one of them is that 11 18 you feel the data is wrong or you feel the data should 19 legitimately be changed, the person that you are interfacing 20 with at that time has a quick way of getting out to where that 21 data is wrong, and of course, each piece of data that is 22 placed then is flagged with the utility and the individual 23 responsible for it, who put it in. So we can get back to 24 source. Tney, in fact, are the only people that can change 25 the information, but we can get back to where the
22 1 misinformation was placed in and get it corrected.
2 Again, there's someone for each one of the four 3 subject areas.
4 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: And a worker could instigate 5 that process.
6 MR. MOELLER: Absolutely. And we don't stand on a
? lot of tormality; it could be done verbally and expeditiously.
8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Okay, thank you.
9 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: I have one other question 10 on the radiation exposure area. Do the utilities see as a 11 benellt from this system having a perhaps more accurate and 12 more reliable lifetime record of exposures for individuals, 13 particularly with the growing field of liability litigation?
14 MR. BRITZ: Absolutely, yes. Also, the largest part 15 of your exposure is received by the contract workers, so you 16 are capturing the largest part of the data from this group of 17 people. And they are the ones that are of concern for tracking 18 their total exposure record, also. Very definite advantage.
19 MR. MOELLER: We have a representative from ANI on 20 the tull task force, and of course, they support this activity 21 quite a bit because they're some other people who feel the 22 liability. And I don't think there's any question that this 23 is the first honest ettort to really keep that tracking 24 mechanism.
25 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Yes. It strikes me that
23 1 it would be something very useful for the utilities to have 2 from that standpoint alone.
3 i?R . MOELLER: John?
4 MR. BAVLISH: My nano is John Bavlish and I represent 5 the Security dabcommittee; I am the Chairman of that committee, 6 and our goal and objective through this process is to 7 standardize the requirements and enhance regulatory 8 effectiveness through NEDS.
9 Tne group has agreed on a set of standards.
10 [ Slide.]
11 This set of standards provides us a common working 12 set of procedures and standards so that we can access people 13 to the facilities quickly. The standards also give us 14 assurance of information traceability, as we can trace back 15 through NEDS from the time that the individual comes to the 16 system until the time he leaves the system, and anything 17 in between.
18 One of our main objectives in the security group was 19 to insure that we have a reliable, trustworthy work force on 20 our facility, and through these standards we feel we have 21 accomplished that goal.
22 The group also looked at compliance with current 23 regulations, and we use the ANSI standards as our basis for 24 that, and we also looked at proposed rules that are currently 25 out there for consideration, and we have made our program
.' n-24 1 11exible enough to move toward any new standard that is put 2 out in the near future.
3 We also have gained what we feel is a strong record 4 management system, and we think through the record management 5 system we'll have a better audit and control process, and 6 we'll talk a little bit more about audits towards the end of 7 the presentation.
8 CSlide.]
9 We have agreed on basic screening elements, and the 10 basic screening elements are: employment history, educational 11 history, a criminal history, military service, character and 12 reputation, psycholsgical assessment and all tied together 13 with a continual o b s ie r v a t i o n program.
14 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Now, this is screening 15 prospective employees?
16 MR. BAVLISH: Yes, sir.
17 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Are you having any 18 ditticulty in obtaining any or all of that information?
19 MR. BAVLISH: At the present time at my utility and 20 at utilities within NEDS, no, we are not.
21 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: What are the parameters for 22 character and reputation?
23 MR. EAVLISH: We are using the criteria of two 24 listed references and two developed references, independent of 25 those supplied by the Applicant.
25 1 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Do you have minimum criteria 2 for each of these?
3 MR. BAVLISH: Yes, we are using the basic three-year 4 standard right now that is in the ANSI rule for employment, 5 education, military service. The criminal history is going 6 back to the year --
? CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, suppose somebody said, I 8 haveuno military service? Do you eliminate it?
9 MR. BAVLISH: We just don *t use it as a criteria.
, 10 We only use what is available for criteria. It they had no 11 military service we can't use military service for a criteria.
12 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, this is screening 13 elements, so am I going to be screened 11 I don't have military J
14 service?
15 MR. BAVLISH: Yes, you will be screened. These are 16 just the elements we will use it you meet them.
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, suppose I say I am a 18 tourth grade graduate. Does that meet the education 19 requirement?
20 MR. BAVLISH: The education requirements are in the 21 previous three years or 18 years of age as a criteria for 22 screening.
i 23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I don't follow you. Must I 24 have a certain amount of education?
25 MR. BAVLISH: No, you don't have to have a certain
- - . - - , , - - - - - . - - - ,- - - - , - ~ . - - - -
, a 26 1 amount of education.
2 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, then what are the 3 screening elements? Are you going to screen --
screening to 4 me means you pass or you don't pass, and therefore, you have 5 to have some criteria. And I gather some of these don't have 6 criteria.
? MR. BAVLISH: They are all one package of criteria 8 which we evaluate as one total package. If you as an 9 individual came in to apply for screening to my company, we 10 would ask you to fill out a questionnaire. On that 11 questionnaire would be what is your employment history for the 10 past three years; what are your educational history for the 13 past three years; your criminal history, we would ask you do 14 you have a criminal record or not; military service, have you 15 been in the military for the past three years. And we would 16 ask you to supply two references that we could check.
17 We would take all the information that you provide, 18 your employment history -- we would go out and conduct an 19 investigation of your employment history for the past three 20 years.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I can see wnere this is 22 important information for you to have, but I'm not sure I see 23 the screening --
24 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: The next slide I think 25 shows the criteria. 9ut just before you leave that, I take it
o
- 27 1 you don't rely just upon what the individual tells you.
2 MR. SAVLISH: No.
3 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: And I take it you can get 4 accurate and up to date information on things like military
$ service and criminal record and those kinds of things.
6 MR. BAVLISH: That's correct.
7 MR. MOELLER: In the criminal record area, there is 8 legislation which I'm sure you are aware of at the present 9 time, and when I say we support that I want to make it clear 10 that the NEDS group is not a regulatory comment body; we are 11 here to put together a system which works, and it is not our 12 intent to comment on NRC regulations to support or oppose. We 13 will change the system to respond to the regulations. I think 14 there are enough people today making comments.
15 But certainly in this area we can get better data 16 11, in fact, that legislation were approved.
17 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: On psychological 18 assessment, do you use one of those tests --
19 MR. BAVLISH: We are using the MMPI 20 MR. SUTTON: Backed up by an interview 11 necessary 21 by a licensed physician.
22 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Do you feel that's a 23 reliable indicator, a useful, workable tool?
24 MR. BAVLISH: As far as all the contact I have had 25 with our psychologist, it is a reliable standard as 2:r as
s
- 28 1 he's concerned. I cannot speak for him, of course, but he 2 does find it reliable and backed up with an interview it he 3 feels it's necessary.
4 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: On the continual 5 observation point, I know when we were considering the insider 6 rule I think it was, there were three parts; one was the 7 background check, the second was the psychological test and 8 then the third was this sort of booklet on behavioral 9 observation. Do you have something like that booklet that you 10 use, and do you feel that that is reliable?
11 MR. BAVLISH: We have trained our supervisors in 12 continual observation, abnormal behavior pattern and so on and 13 so forth. What we are relying on is our supervisors and the 14 training that they have. Hight now, it's working as well as 15 can be expected.
16 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: I remember at the time --
17 I mean, most of us were pretty skeptical about some of those 18 checklist kind of approaches to behavioral observation. In 19 tact, I think most of decided we might tail 11 you applied all 20 those things to us.
21 [ Laughter.]
22 MR. BAVLISH: I think to answer your question, 23 Commissioner, we use these screening elements against an 24 established criterion, which is the next slide, to evaluate 25 whether we would grant access to an individual or not.
29 1 [ Slide.]
2 MR. BAVLISH: We d o r. ' t take one element and not 3 allow access, because someone may have one bad character 4 reference. We apply it to the criteria that I think you were
>- 5 pointing at.
6 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: I was just trying to understand 7 how you use them and maybe I will get that later.
8 In psychological assessment, you say they must take 9 the test. I presume you have some standard for acceptance or 10 not.
11 MR. BAVLISH- That's correct. Basically what we do 12 is take these screening elements and evaluate the package 13 against the screening evaluation criteria, which you can see 14 on the screen now. We take these criteria and evaluate an 15 individual against them.
16 For instance, we say omission or a falsification of 17 information on an application or a security questionnaire. It i
18 is legitimate. Sometimes people will forget information, but 19 it is not legitimate when people tell you they don't have a 20 criminal background and in fact, they do. We use that as a 21 criterion.
22 Possession of controlled dangerous substances or use 23 of drugs. It people are found to be in violation of that.
4 24 that is a criterion we use for either accepting or rejecting 25 them.
1 6 30
- s
. 1 Pertinent criminal history; 11 a man is arrested for 2 drunk driving once, that may not be a criterion, but 11 he has 3 a list of felonies, that is something we have to look at to 4 make a determination of whether we are going to allow hin 5 access in the facility or not.
6 Mental illness or emotional instability; we get that 7 direction from our psychologists at the facility. We use the 8 MMPI as a basis for testing on that.
9 Evidence or coercion, adverse influence, pressure; 10 we use all the screening elements that we discussed in the 11 previous slide to look at that and see 11 there is any 12 potential for coercion or embezzlement or whatever.
13 Other derogatory information or patterns of 14 unreliability or not trustworthy. 11 an individual has been 15- fired from his last six Jobs for stealing, you have something 16 you have to consider, whether you are going to allow the 17 individual access to your facility or not 18 The negative psychological assessment, again, is
-19 what we use for accepting or rejecting individuals. Each 30 utility who is in the NEDS Program is responsible to make that 21 decision individually.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: 11 a person is denied a 03 position, is he or sne told why?
'04 MR. BAVLISH: At my facility, yes, he is.
35 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO; Suppose it was a negative
31 1 psychological asses'sment, would he have an opportunity to show 2 you that you were wrong or the assessment was wrong?
3 MR. BAVLISH: I can only speak for my company. 't e s ;
4 they do have an appeal right within our program.
5 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Is there wide variation f
6 among utilities on how these criteria are applied? Might you 7 see, for example, at one facility an absolute rule, 11 anybody 8 has ever been convicted of use or possession of controlled or 9 dangerous substances, they are not going to be hired at that 10 facility, but another facility might well take a more lenient 11 approach, the same thing with criminal records or with some oi l i
12 these other items?
13 MR. BAVLISH: I think that the screening process is 14 very subjective. I don't think there is any hard tast rules, 15 where if you were arrested twice, you woula be rejected from 16 working at any facility. That's why we felt it was very 17 important within our group to establish some basic standards 18 and criteria and then make an objective opinion, based on the 19 information that i. provided.
20 That's why on any negative information, each utility 21 is required to make their own decision as to whether they are 22 going to provide access to the facility.
23 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Everybody, the six 24 utilities that are involved here, everybody gets the 25 information, and each utility on a case by case basis makes a
1 ss 3 'a du al that indivi to al low going are It an they true.
on whether ly It total m.e de cision n ot by ed 1 No, that*s be scr een wil l put on the 2
in? BA VLISH: ity, he be MR. l l the my uti he wil acce ss, 3- c omes' to pr ocess, denied to al ough the he is as individu thr s.
It judgment or 4 ar ed a cces m ake a
cility cle ar ed to fa
, he is ving cle r quired that 5 e to sed as ha a re acce ss n ba system tie s whm i de cisio to allo 6 utili own est of the going ake their 7
r ar e ve to m they pa rki to ha whether going in the are o vided.
S They is pr drink ing ity, a
n ot.
that for fa cil ation ated my ter min 9 m infor n at uld pr ov on the e is ctio s om e on for toJe We wo 10 It ty. wa a c rite ria othe r utili ther e be any when 11 that m ay r tim e for s-at PECO o period of e je cted lot, 12 myn a
ot be at the or r it only cause ion for 13 rm at ated info ter min i f yo that ving s 14 of ha happen What C) pr oblem 15' STINE: at Calvert rm ation. ASSEL access 5 10 info C OMMI SSIONER gr a nted at yo ur is wo rk sya
- that to come w the 17 w ants ly re vie an individual indivi dual independent tha l 18 that to s omethi ng nd then rtuni t y ev
, a oppo in, absent at 19 the is is in yo u get ce he he 20 or on one plant, at eve ation, in m at ally info rm the syste ba sic i 2t of He is point hmi o ut BAVLISH: at that t c an up 22 MR. again, vd A l ity totally
- As
i
=
. l l
33 1 would not be any benefit to the system, however, 11 we didn't 2 have an agreement on any acceptable standard, and that is 3 basically what we are working on, to expedite the process.
4 It is a cost factor. It cost around s185 to do a
$ clearance. Some are higher. Jame are lower. From the cost 6 effectiveness standpoint and from the reliability standpoint,
? we have agroed on these standards. I don't think you will see 8 too many people re-screening people who have already been 9 through the NEDS standard, although they do have that right as 10 an utility to do it.
11 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Has your experience shown that 12 some people are accepted at one site and not accepted at 13 another?
14 MR. BAVLISH: I can't speak for the total country.
1$ I would say, yes, that is true.
16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: In your pilot so far?
17 MR. BAVLISH: Some people will use some criteria and 18 some people will not use that same criteria, as far as 19 rejecting and accepting. Each individual utility is 20 responsible for that individual while he is on its site. They 21 should have the right and they do have the right, to evaluate 22 each individual that comes on the site.
23 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Do these people have 24 unescorted access'*
25 MR. BAVLISH: Yes; that is what we are working on,
34 1 unescorted access.
2 MR. SUTTON: I might mention if you have a person on 3 there that has been turned down by an utility, the background 4 information that he was turned down for is not put in the 5 computer system. It is through the mail 11 requested.
6 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Only 11 it is requested?
? MR. SUTTON; The same way with a person that is 8 accepted to an utility. If you want to know the information, 9 you still have to write them off or ask for that information 10 to be passed to you, just as they do today. It is not really 11 anything different than they do today.
12 MR. BAVLISH: The system is designed to give you 13 enough warning that an individual has been terminated for 14 cause or not passed to screening. There is a contact point 15 number for each group within the NEDS program that you would 16 contact to get that information.
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: One of the concerns I can see 18 that an individual is accepted at Plant X and he is accepted 19 at Plant Y and rejected at Plant 2 and then he goes to Plant W 20 and they call 2 and they say, well, we rejected him, and they 21 give whatever reason and they say, maybe we had better reject 22 him, too.
23 I am just wondering what protection you have to make 24 sure the judgments being made are sound and well based.
25 MR. MOELLER: I think the example that John gave I i
l
. = . . _ _ - ,
35 1
about the individual drinking in the parking lot is probably a 2 good one. I will balance that against another one. There are 3 certain rules that each company and sound business practice 4 exercises which may or may not talk about wnether the man is 5 trustworthy or not, 6 There are a lot of trades people out there who like 7 to have a beer with lunch. We happen to prohibit that on our 8 property. You will be discharged 11 in fact you are found 9 consuming a'acoholic beverages on the property.
10 A reasonable man brought to that situation would 11 say, well, he has so to speak paid the price, at the Salem 12 plant, if he is discharged, and I don *t think it is a criteria i
13 by which he should then be denied working in his trade in the 14 rest of the nuclear industry.
15 It in fact a pattern of that was developed though, 16 and he were discharged from two or three sites for doing the 17 same thing, then the third or tourth utility down the line may 18 in fact look at this and say, well, it appears that this 19 individual in fact may have an alcohol problem, and this is 20 something to be looked into, and we should consider this a 21 little more deeply in allowing the man onto the property or 22 allow him at all 23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: If an individual is rejected, 24 the company reporting would give the reason?
25 MR. MOELLER: It is not placed on the computer. You
36 1 have to make a call on that.
2- COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: The indication is that he 3 was terminated; that would be on the computer?
4 MR. MOELLER: That is correct.
5 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: It is up to the next 6 utility down the line to call and say, I would like to know 7 the reasons, would you send me a little summary telling me 8 why?
9 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: How about when he applies and 10 is rejected? Is it on the computer that he was rejected at 11 Plant X?
12 MR. MOELLER: That's correct.
13 MR. BAVLISH: That*s correct.
14 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Then you have to call to get 15 the reason?
10 MR. MOELLER: That's correct. We have done all we 17 can to protect the information. With that call, especially 18 with derogatory information, we are ensuring that first of all 19 the information is correct, because that iaformation that is 20 derogatory will be passed back and forth, and it the man says 21 that is not me, you have the wrong guy, it will be fixed.
22 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Do the individuals have 23 access to this data bank?
24 MR. MOELLER: Yes. When we say " access," we will 25 give them the data that is in the bank. They can't go to the
l 37 s 1 computer and pull it ott themselves. We are not hiding 2 anything in this data base.
3 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Most of these people, I would 4 assume, are Union. Do you have any trouble with the craft 5 Union? Do they object?
6 MR. MOELLER: We had an extremely rewarding meeting 7 with the building trades and the IBEW two weeks ago. We met B with the head of the IBEW and the building trades. It was 9 very favorably received. We had a very good interchange with 10 them, explained to them what the system was. As we left that 11 meeting, they were in favor of the project.
12 I should point out that we think that the selling 13 point of this is that being on NEDS will be a desirable thing 14 for everyone concerned, from the worker to the utility. Let 15 me take the middle person, the contractor, the catalytic, 16 people like that. If they are bidding in on a job, it is 17 obviously advantageous to the utility 11 that individual comes 18 in and says I have a high percentage of my people who are on 19 NEDS, I could save you time getting a man on the site, I could 4
20 save you a lot of money and we are going to be in there doing 21 the job just as quickly as possible.
22 For the individual worker coming out of the Union i
23 Hall, he raises his hand and says, I am on NEDS. I don't know 24 how they select their people, but that has to be a plus for 25 him. For the utility, they win, because they get the man as
-- . . . . _ , . - , , ,- , , - . . _ . . - . _ , . , - - . - . - - _ ,- . ----,,-2, - - - ,
38 1 quickly as possible.
2 We see this as a very positive thing for everyone 3 concerne'd and a selling point for each one of those steps, 4 that in fact the man is on the system.
5 Yes, we have spoken to them. It was a very 6 productive and good meeting. We think they are in favor of 7 it.
8 COMMISSIONER ZECH: How many people are in the NEDS 9 organisation?
10 MR. MOELLER: The NEOS organisation represents the 11 six utilities.
12 COMMISSIONER ZECH: They are all utility people 13 involved in this program?
14 MR. MOELLER: The six utilities have funded this 15 program. I should say it is not implemented yet. I am going 16 to give you a status of exactly where we are, but we have put 17 the money up to fund the project.
18 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: How do you determine who puts 19 up how much? You have six different utilities at six different 20 sites with six different plants. It*s really none of my 21 business, but I am curious.
22 [ Laughter.)
23 MR. MOELLER: There are really two ettorts that have 24 taken place over the past two years. One is the development 25 of the standards and procedures, and that is really what we
39
. I have been talking to you about over the past hour. It consists 2 of what the screening elements are going to be, what data is 3 going to be placed on the computer, which tests we are going to 4 use to take credit for training.
5 They have been put together in a manual called the 6 NEOS Standards and Procedures Manual, and have been signed att
? by an otticer of each one of the six utilities. That buys 8 them in. That says, I am going to follow the NEDS Standards 9 and Procedures in my utility and I am going to implement them 10 through additional implementing procedures at each one of my 11 facilities.
12 In addition to that, there has been a parallel 13 project going on. As I indicated, we have put together a 14 computer subcommits
- who wrote a specification. We went out 15 for bid and awarded the bid to Control Data Corporation.
10 Control Data right now is building the computer system that we r
17 sre going to load this data into. When they are completed and 4
18 it looks to be about this spring, we will then start collecting 19 data on individuals and loading it in.
"O As far as cost is concerned, there is a common cost 21 associated with that first package. IEAL has operated as our 22 Project Manager to bring each one of these subcommittees 23 together to develop the standards, to get them put together, 24 get them reviewed, get them typed up. We have shared those 25 costs aqually.
40 1 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Equally?
2 MR. MOELLER: Equally. It is not based _on the 3 number of people in there. Maybe that answers the bottom line 4 of your question. On the computer side, there are basically 5 two different ways of running the computer.
6 Maybe I would ask that the person back there with 7 the slides, there is one called "The System," 11 you can find 8 that one.
9 CSlide.]
10 MR. MOELLER: This shows roughly a hardware layout 11 of what the system looks like. There is a NEDS central 12 computer that will be ottered by CDC for us over the next two 13 years that will reside in Rockville, Maryland. There are two 14 basic ways of interfacing with the computer. Some companies, 15 11 not all, have some of this data in their own host 16 computers. Those host computers will operate back and forth 17 with NEDS*. For those utilities that don *t have it in their 18 host computer or elect for some reason to go another way, wo 19 have a micro-computer. It looks like a terminal You can sit 20 right at that terminal and interact with the NEDS' central 21 computer. ,
22 Obviously there are different costs associated with 23 whether you go with the micro or whether you are using your 24 own central computer. Those costs have been apportioned and 25 proportioned according to what the actual cost is. ,
k 41
^ 1 COMMISSIONER ZECH: You envision, as a NEDS 2 organization, a full time group that carries out these 3 responsibilities, I presume. They are not utility people, but 4 it is.a NEDS organization that you are proposing?
5 MR. MOELLER: No, there is no NEDS organization.
6 Each utility will exercise its duties in screening and entering
? data, et cetera.
8 COMMISSIONER ZECH: How will you do this, tracking 9 down some of these things you have told us, the QA thing, the 10 pertinent criminal history, checking records? Who is going to 11 do all the checking involved? In my experience, it just 12 doesn't happen overnight. You have to have people involved,
'13 and a fair amount of manpower, it seems to me. It it is not a 14 separate organization, it seems to me the utilities will have 15 to have some dedicated people to this program.
16 You are proposing something that I think is very, 17- very valuable, but it doesn't come for nothing. Obviously, it 18 is going to take an effort and a contribution of resources, 19 money as well as people, to get this program going.
20 I would be interested in how much thinking you have 21 gone into, what contribution the utilities, 11 that is where 22 it is going to stay, are going to give, and how will this 23 organization function 11 it is going to belong to the utilities 24 without some kind of a NEDS group? How do you envision the 25 structure?
42 1 MR. MOELLEH; There is a hierarchy witnin NEOS that 2 starts with the Owners Committee and is normally a 3 representative of the vice presidential level Then there is 4 a NEDS implementation group, which is basically right now the e pilot utility group representatives. The actual work is the o responsibility of the utility. There is no outside 7 ' organization.
8 COMMISSIONER ZECH: Who does the investigations?
9 For example, for criminal history. Who says 1 want the record 10 on this individual?
11 MR. BAVLISH: Each Security Department within the 12 utility is responsible.
13 COMMISSIONER 2ECH: That is an additional duty?
14- COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: They are doing it now.
15 COMMISSIONER ZECH: I understand you are all doing 16 it separately. What you are telling me is for these migrant 17 people you are talking about, it seems to me what you are 18 proposing is a more organized way of handling them. That 19 looks to me like it is going to take additional resources at 20 each utility, to track down and verify, even these forms, and 21 to verify what you are doing rather than just handing out a 22 bunch of questionnaires.
23 MR. MOELLER: I think your question is really 24 independent of the system that we are proposing.
25 That screening is being done now in accordance with I
T ~
43 1 ANSI N-18-17, and conceivably in the future, 11 not with 73-56, 2 with something else. We have elected to pretty much gear our 3 --
4 COMMISSIONER ZECH: So what you are saying is, you 5 are using the current system.
6 MR. MOELLER: That's correct.
7 COMMISSIONER ZECH: And just bringing it together in 8 a sense; is that what you're saying?
9 MR. MOELLER: That's correct.
10 COMMIGSIONER ASSELSTINE: If anything, this should 11 ease the burden, shouldn't it, so that once you are into the 12 system, the other utilities can then rely upon it, so that each 13 one doesn't have to duplicate the work that's already been 14 done.
15 MR. MOELLER: That's correct.
16 Now there is normally an individual in each one of 17 the tour subject areas at each utility that kind of has the 18 NEDS respons' bili ty. He's mothering it in his given 19 discipline, whether that's training or health physics, et 20 cetera. He will be the one, from an implementation side, who 21 will be held accountable by the company to ensure that the data 22 gets in there and gets in there properly.
23 COMMISSIONER ZECH: But you are talking about migrant 24 and contractor type people as well as utility people.
4 25 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: No. Mostly contractor
i 44
-q 1 people, right?
2 MR. MOELLER: But the contractor people come tram the 3 utility to get screened and to gain the access.
4 COMMISSIONER ZECH: Yes, that's right, But you are 5 talking about controlling just that group, and you are not 6 talking about the utility people at all In other words, they 7 will keep doing what they are doing for their own people, but 8 you will get this -- these migrant people and take the 9 utility's information that they already have now and bring it 10 together. Is that what NEDS really means?
11 MR. MOELLER: That's correct.
12 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Let me ask you, though, let's 13 assume that we are talking about John X. I'm at a utility.
14 Can I change his records, and when John X goes to another 15 utility, that utility can change his records? Is there some !
16 assurance --
17 MR. MOELLER: The record can only be changed by the 18 individual utility, and in most cases, the individual group 19 that entered the data. There is a security system, not to be 20 contuswd with security here, layered onto the computer.
21 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: So if I were at Utility X, I 22 couldn't inadvertently wipe out the data.
23 MR. MOELLER: That's right. You cannot.
24 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Or even on purpose.
25 MR. MOELLER: If I was up here under PSE&G, we have
_- ._. - = - - - . - - . _ _ _ = . _ . _ _ _ - - - _ . __. . _ _ . - _.
e i 45 1 tour of the Cyber --
I call them terminals; they're actually 2 minicomputers. You can't do the same thing from each one of 3 those terminals. Each one of the tour terminals are located in 4 tour separate areas. John is not permitted to change training 5 information, as Training is not permitted to change security 6 information. But 11 John is the primary contact, who.te name 7 and phone number is in the computer, and he gets a call from 8 PP&L and says, " Hey, this fellow, it looks like there was a 9 negative piece of information -- namely, that he was terminated 10 from your utility, and he says he was terminated for being 11 drunk in the parking lot -- he's demonstrated to us that he's a 12 good guy. Do you think that that data ought to be changed?"
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Oh, so there's one person 14 responsible for each area.
15 MR. MOELLER: That's correct.
16 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: That*s what I was worried about, 17 was indiscriminate changing of the records, not because anybody 18 had any malintent, but they thought they were getting new 19 information.
20 MR. SUTTON: You can protect it even finer than 21 that. In some cases, you can only allow a person to look at 22 and not even input any data to that degree.
23 CCMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: But say you had an 24 individual that starts work at Salem. He works at Salem for an 25 outage, goes to Calvert Clifts. While he is working at Calvert
,_ _ _ . _ _ _ _ . . _ . _ , __ ._ __._ _ _ _ _ . , _ _ _ _ . _ _ . ~ _ _ _ _ - . _
. i 4e
- 1 Clifts, he is convicted of offsite possession and use of 2 narcotics. He is dismissed by PG&E at that site.
3 Do you have to go back to Salem to enter that 4 information into the system?
6 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: They can do that?
7 MR. MOELLER: When he arrives at PG&E, there is an
'8 input made to the computer that he is coming into PG&E.
9 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Taen he's under their 10 control?
11 MR. MOELLER: Then he is under their control 12 CHAIMMAN PALLADINO: But you would get the 13 information that he was terminated at --
14 MR. MOELLER: Yes. There is a flag report that goes 15 out with that information.
16 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: So it is wherever he is at 17 the time. They have the responsibility for the tiles for that 18 individual at that time.
19 MR. SUTTON: It he has current access at two places, 20 which is possible, and he gets terminated for cause at one 21 place because of a conviction like you say, the other place 22 would be automatically notified of a change in that stature, 23 and they will have to take action to find out what*s been going 24 on so that they may, too, it they decide to terminate that 25 person.
47 1 COMMISSIONER ZECH: So you*re going to bring this 2 organization on as your proposal with no additional resources 3 of people or dollars?
4 MR. MOELLER: That*s correct. We will have some
$ ongoing people running NEDS for us. We have a contract with 6 CDC to physically run the computer off into the next few 7 years. And my guess is, we*11 keep IEAL around for a little 8 bit of help, and I'm sure that we*11 be modifying procedures in 9 the future to give us some assistance there.
10 MR. SUTTON: But NEDS, in fact, consists of the six 11 utilities, and, of course, in the future as additional 12 utilities buy in, and I think I*11 talk about that in a few 13 minutes, 14 Let me quickly go through the two other areas, 11 I 15 could have the next slide on medical.
16 [ Slide.]
17 Just very quickly, in the medical area, as Wayne 18 indicated, this is primarily associated with the respiratory 19 ilt examination. There is some optional drug screening, and of 20 course they make a psychological evaluation, and that feeds 21 onto the security side.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: What do you mean by respiratory 23 examination? A breathing test? An X-ray?
24 MR. MOELLER: Yes. There*s a pulmonary function test 25 that"s associated with it.
48 m 1 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: And do you rave some 2 requirements, or again that's for each utility to decide?
3 MR, MOELLER: There are some standards, although 4 within the medical area, they have their ditterences of 5 opinion.
6 MR. SUTTON: They vary in the physical and drug
? screening and psychological areas at this time, but the 8 respiratory examination has pretty well settled into a constant 9 set of criteria that they all have used, and it*s written in 10 the standards as to what that is, how many respiratory rates 11 and things like that.
12 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: For drug screening, does 13 that mean that if you have a utility that has a random drug 14 screening program and you enter the data, that that individual 15 was at that site, to MR. MOELLER: That*s correct. It's not a requirement 17 at the present time. But it the data is there, it will be 18 entered.
19 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: How many ct the six 20 utilities use the drug screening program?
l 21 MR. MOELLER: I know that we do.
22 MR. SUTTON: I think there are about three.
23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Jim, when you say " drug 24 screening," you mean when they first come?
25 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Random testing or for
49 1 initial --
2 MR. MOELLER: We do 100 percent testing on a yearly 3 basis.
4 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: On a yearly basis.
5 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: On a yearly basis, so it's not e only when they first come on the job.
7 MR. MOELLER: That's correct. There's a mix there.
8 I don't mean to say that what we do is Industry standard.
9 [ Slide.]
10 COMMISSIONER ZECH: What kind of drug testing do you 11 do -- 100 percent, you say?
12 MR. MOELLER: We do 100 percent of our people.
13 COMMISSIONER ZECH: What kind of a drug test?
14 MR. MOELLER: I don't know the details of it. I can 15 just tell you that they take a blood test and a urine sample, 16 and they run it through a piece of equipment that tells you 17 about every chemical that*s in there.
18 COMMISSIONER 2ECH: Yes, I'm familiar with that.
19 That's what you do to 100 percent of your people on a yearly 20 basis?
21 MR. MOELLER: Yes.
22 MR. SUTTON: Usually they follow it up, it they have 23 indications, they follow it up with a more detailed, accurate 24- radioimmunoassay or whatever they call it.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: But it a person only works there
D 50 1 six months, he might not get caught by the annual, and it he
~
2 comes back, you would give him at least the test at that time?
3 MR. MOELLER: That's correct.
4 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Inoidentally, do you do it to 5 100 percent of your people, including those who are permanently 6 employed?
? MR. MOELLER: That's correct. i l
8 MM. BRITZ: That's on a random basis. You don't know 9 ahead of time.
10 MR. MOELLER: Yes. I want to keep those terms 11 straight. We do 100 percent, but you are only given about 24 12 hours notice of when your physical is going to occur. And from 13 a detail standpoint, I would point out that our particular 14 utility takes its samples and splits them and holds one. It it 15 comes back positive, the second sample is then tested, and it's 16 based on the second sample then that ultimate action is taken.
I '/ COMMISSIONER ZECH: That second sample just verities 18 the first it it's positive. That's what you do that for, I 19 presume.
20 MR. MOELLER: Yes. We're trying to take out any 21 element that there could be something wrong, that the lab work 22 got mixed up or something like that.
23 COMMISSIONER ZECH: Right what happens it it comes 24 out positive, what do you do about it?
25 MR. MOELLER: We have a PGP program, the Personal
a o
51
'-- 1 Guidance Program, and there are several things that can happen.
2 First of all, you are removed from access on the 3 station. The company has a right to discharge you. Our 4 Personal Guidance Program is basically geared around your 5 declaring yourself that you have a problem.
6 11, under those conditions, you've said you hs a 7 problem, we will place you in a program and make every eff;rt 8 to rehabilitate you.
9 It we catch you, we don't -- we may or may not give 10 you that right of rehabilitation. So it behooves you to tell 11 us when you have a problem.
12 COMMISSIONER ZECH: Does it make any difference 13 whether the drugs are onsite or olisite?
14 MR. MOELLER: No. In tact, the test doesn't know.
15 As you may be aware --
16 COMMISSIONER ZECH: Well, the test doesn't know, but 17 do you inquire? Or what it somebody says, "I just -- I 18 didn't" --
19 MR. MOELLER: Our drug program extends olisite.
20 COMMISSIONER ZECH: It does?
21 MR. MOELLER: Yes.
22 COMMISSIONER ZECH: Very good.
23 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Do you find that you get 24 pretty good acceptance-by your people to that kind of a 25 program?
I.
32 m I guess the reason I ask is, 1 I was at a utility not 2 very long ago that's sort of at the other end of the spectrum.
3 No routine tests. It tests only 11 there are other positive 4 indications of aberrant behavior. And I asked a couple of 5 operators what they thought about the testing program, and I 6 got fairly strong negative c o mm e n '. s . I'd be interested in your 7 experience with your people.
8 MR. MOELLEH: I am not aware of a strong negative.
9 We did not have a lot of debate over it. There were 10 information sessions with the union, and we had a union 1
11 concurrence when we instituted the program, and I think that 12 that's a strong point, that you have to have a lot of 13 information, and people have to understand what's going to 14 happen to them, because it*s a relatively personal activity.
15 But I think that there*s no one that would disagree 16 that it's imperative upon us to ensure that we have coherent 17 people onsite. And once you recognize that we're going to do 18 this to everyone -- in our utility, we have a Vice President on 19 the site, and it's from the Vice President on down that*s a 20 part of this program, and everyone is treated equally, and that 21 we do h er e his other program, this Personal Guidance Program, 22 to help you out 11, in fact, there*s a problem, because we are 23 interested in you as an employee.
24 We don't like getting rid of employees. We think 25 we'd like to keep them on the site. That*s what we're in the
o
- 53
, . 1 business of doing.
2 But under those terms, there appears to-be acceptance 3 of it.
4 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: It sounds as 11 you have
$ one of the stronger programs in the industry.
6 MR. MOELLER: We have been very aggressive on this.
7 COMMISSIONER ZECH: It sounds pretty good.
8 MR. MOELLER: In the training area, we were very 9 tortunate in setting a standard,.as I indicated previously.
10 INFO put together a rad protection training program and test.
11 The test is uniform, and we adopted it as the standard.
12 It should be noted that this is a part of the 13 training that you receive when you come onto the site. There 14 is site-speoitic training that the individual would go 15 through. But the training associated with this test comprises 16 somewhere between one and two days at most facilities.
17 We would record both the training data and the 18 testing data as separate entities, because there could be 19 utilities that say, "Well, the man was trained six months ago, 20 and maybe just for peace of mind, I'd like to test him again,"
21 and we'll enter that successful passing of the test the second 22 time around.
23 CSlide.]
24 The standards and procedures that we have put 25 together, we really feel are the heart of the system. The nuts l
54 1 and bolts of the computer is something that anyone can put 2 together. But these standards and procedures are something 3 that we have to ensure that each utility is abiding by.
4 The program, as I indicated before, is fully QAable 5 and fully inspectable by the NRC, and as such, we have put 6 together a two-tiered quality assurance program. Each utility 7 will be responsible for ensuring that its individual quality 8 assurance organization audits NEDS with the objective in mind 9 that, number one, you*re doing what it says in the standards 10 and procedures, that the screening, that the information is 11 correct, and secondly, that the information that's generated 12 from utilising those standards and procedures is correct in the 13 computer. So it's twotold.
14 In addition to that, on a periodic basis -- and we 15 haven't set up the exact timeirame -- there will be an 16 inter-utility audit, which will consist of individuals from 17 several of the other utilities within NEDS coming and auditing 18 the implementation of NEDS at your given facility. We think 19 that this will bring some homogeneality to the system, and also 20 I think that any time we do those types of audits, there's a 21 real good sharing of information.
22 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: How do you do -- what*s the 23 ditterence between NEDS participants' audits and the utility 24 audit. Who does the audits in the first case?
25 MR. MOELLER: The utility itself
55 1 CHAIRMAN P A L L AD.INO : Oh, the utility itself. I see.
2 Okay.
3 MR. MOELLEN: These audits, by the way, have been put 4 together, the checklists have been developed, and, in fact, 5 we're going to have a preimplementation audit in the January to 6 February timeirame by this group, and they're going to go 7 around and.make sure that all of us have the necessary inhouse 8 procedures and systems ready to go to support NEDS, 9 MR. SUTTON: In tact, I might mention, too, that the 10 checklists for both those types of audits are common to each 11 other, and the reports that are generated and the findings from 12 those and the results of the findings get submitted centrally 13 to this Owners Group, which consists of the people that 14 actually own the system.
15 tBlide.]
16 MH, MOELLER: The regulatory interface, these are 17 just sort of a wide area of subjects that we telt we ought to 18 touch on while we were here.
19 From a security area, there is some need for some 20 upgrading of certain utilities in their screening program, and 21 we, for one, submitted out plan change back in the June 22 timeirame to meet NEDS. The utilities are about ready to do 23 that. We're doing it under the 50.54(p) program. It's 24 certainly an upgrade trem where most of the utilities are 25 today, and that, of course, brings to ' hat common NEDS
$6 s 1 standard.
- 2 In the health physics area, Wayne maybe I'll let you 3 speak to that.
4 MR. BRITZ: Well, we just have to be sure that people
$ accept the transfer of the health physics data via ccmputer 6 instead of all the individually signed forms and mailed forms, 7 and also to improve the timeliness to meet the NEDS standards.
8 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Does that information, 9 then, get automatically transferred into each plant's 10 individual computer system?
11 MR. BRITZ: No, no.
12 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: So they have to manually do 13 it?
14 MR. BRITZ: Well, they have to retrieve it via the 15 NEDS computer, 16 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Okay.
17 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Via the what?
18 MR. BRITZ: Via the NEDS computer.
19 COMMISSIONER ZECH: But they could do that without 20 any trouble. They have the wherewithal for doing that.
21 MR. BRITZ: Oh, yes, that*s correct. You will have 22 it right there.
23 MR. SUTTON: Some of the utilities actually do that.
24 They have actually,got mainframes, like you saw. They take 25 their data from that, and it goes into their local computer,
57 1 and they update their computers 11 necessary.
2 MR. MOELLER: The last item, NHC audits, we had given 3 presentations to both Region I and Region II, which were 2 4 enthusiastic and successful. And as we are here giving you
- 5 information today, we have also spoken to some of the people in 6 the I6B Branch and sort of alerted them that when they come to 7 NEDS utilities, they may see information in a different format 8 than they have previously seen it, that source data may not 9 reside at the individual utility but may be at another utility.
10 We are not blazing new ground here. We've done this 11 in the past, where we've transferred information by mail. But 12 it may be a little bit different, certainly well within the 13 bounds of present regulation. So there may be some need for 14 changes in their inspection modules, but we don't see a major 15 perturbation.
16 [ Slide.]
17 A quick summarization of where we are at. As I 18 indicated previously, the standards and procedures were 19 approved in August of this year and signed oli by a Vice 20 President of each of the companies. The final hardware system 21 speo was approved in September. The software is maybe just a 22 tiny bit behind schedule, but it is close to being completed.
23 The final acceptance test is to be run in January, and we*re 24 looking to begin to load data in the March '80 timeframe and 25 begin operations in April.
- - - _ - . - . . . . - . , . - - . - - . . - = . _ - . - -- - - - -
$8 1 Future expansion to be determined, we've been very 2 cautious and conservative with the program. We're not out 3 marketing it at the present time. As I indicatec, we are in 4 touch through this task force with the other Regions around the 5 country, and 11 successful, we will, I'm sure, be besieged by 6 them to expand.
? The exact method that we're going to expand in has 8 yet to be determined. The physical system that we've designed 9 is capable of about 100 percent expansion. In other words, we 10 could bring on twice as many -- I'm not going to say twice as i
11 many utilities -- basically twice as many plants, twice as many 12 workers is what you're actually looking at, because the 13 computer is looking at individual records.
14 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: How many plants do you have 15 in the system now?
16 MR. BUTTON: Nine, I believe.
17 MR. MOELLER: There's more than that. Let me see, 18 GPU has two; PP&L -- are we going to count reactors?
19 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Yes.
20 MR. MOELLER: Let*s count reactors. Three GPU, two 21 PP&L, two -- well, I will count three operating at PE. Can I 22 count Hope Creek?
23 LLaughter.]
24 I wasn't asked to say that either.
25 Four and two at PG6E, so that's 17 plants.
$9
, - 1 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: That's a fair number.
2 MR. MOELLER: Yes.
3 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: And you could double that?
4 MR. MOELLER: Yes.
5 That concludes our formal presentation. 11 no one 6 can think of anything more, are there any other questions?
. 7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, it's a very interesting 8 concept ,and an interesting approach. I was wondering whether 9 you, in your pilot program, have found any downsides or 10 particular problems that you think need addressing before you 11 go very much farther?
12 MR. MOELLER: I've given a lot of thought to that 13 question, and I've given a lot of though to, if you asked me, 14 you know, what actually can we do for you, and I can honestly 15 tell you that we would like your enthusiastic support. I think 16 that we have the ball, and we're moving forward towards 17 implementation.
18 We are available to work with anyone, including your 19 Staff, 11 that requires any increased level of activity.
20 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, I gather you haven't seen 21 any severe problems.
22 MR. MOELLER: No.
23 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Carl had put his hand up.
24 MR. GOLLER: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
25 I am Carl Galler from the NRC Staff, Ottice of
r 60 1 Nuclear Reactor Regulation. I'd like to offer a few more 2 comments on the NRC system that was referred to before, which 3 is related to and somewhat similar to the NEDS system.
4 The NRC system is called the Radiation Exposure
$ Information Reporting System. This was a direct result of a 6 rule that promulgated about titteen years ago by the
? Commission, which is commonly referred to as the Transient 8 Worner Rule. It was promulgated for concerns at that time very 9 similar to those that Commissioner Asselstine expressed earlier 10 in this meeting -- namely, a concern that the transient or 11 migrant worker, as he is sometimes referred to, was being taken 12 advantage of as he moved from job to job for one reason or 13 another, either because he was not honest, or for other reasons 14 he was receiving excessive doses.
15 The first important piece of information that I could 16 contribute is that over the fifteen years that the NEC has been 17 collecting this data, there is a clear indication that this is 18 not a prcblem. It is not a problem.
19 Therefore, this system has served that primary 20 purpose of the rule, but it has also served many other purposes 21 to the NRC.
22 It has provided information on possible areas that 23 require regulatory attention. It has provided information on 24 areas that require research attention, and it has also provided 25 information and continues to provide information to the
61 1 utilities similar to that that the NEDS system is intended to 2 serve. We receive a number of letters from utilities, trying 3 to determine historical exposure information on personnel that 4 they are apparently retaining.
5 This additional information and the fact that the 6 system provides this, I think is more apparent when one 7 realizes that by requiring termination reports, the NRC system 8 eventually catches all radiation workers who come under the 9 system. There is more than one way to terminate. Usually one 10 thinks of moving from job to job, but there is a more permanent 11 way, and in that case, the information also comes in to the 12 NRC.
13 I think the most important point that I would like to 14 make is that we would be very interested in cooperating or 15 coordinating with the NEDS system. We see a real benefit to 16 the both of us and even a potential as a substitute for the f
17 present NRC termination report.
18 Furthermore, there might even be a much longer term 19 benefit. As the Commission recall, as part of its 20 consideration of the Part 20 rule just a short time ago, which 21 I might mention is expected to be published in the Federal 22 Register this Friday on December 20th for public comment, 23 includes a consideration of an annual reporting requirement for 24- all radiation workers. That question still remains in that 25 proposed rule, soliciting comment from the public, and in the
62
~ 1 event that that requirement should become a part of the final 2 rule, I see another possibility for benefit, for coordination 3 between the NRC and this NEOS system to the extent of prov,J ng 4 that kind of information -- that is, annual dose information on 5 all radiation workers.
6 Thank you.
7 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Thank you, Carl 8 Did you have more? I didn*t mean to interrupt you.
9 MR. MOELLER: The only thing I wanted to say was, 10 there are many people who are sitting behind me today who have 11 been supportive of NEDS, some directly involved with the six 12 utilities, and many people from the task force, and I want to 13 thank them for coming, and I think they demonstrate the support 14 that this pilot organization and the broader task force has 15 within the industry, and I thank them for coming, and I want to 16 thank the Commissioners for listening to us today, and it's 17 very much appreciated.
18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Well, we appreciate your coming 19 by and acquainting us with your system.
20 Let me see it there are any last-minute questions.
21 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: I had one other question.
22 If your system could expand to, say, cover some 35 reactors, 23 and you could have comparable systems, say, in two or three 24 other Regions of the country, would it be pessible to design 25 those systems in a way that they are mutually compatible, so
63
- 1 that one could ultimately achieve a nationwide network of 2 information that covered all transient workers at all p3 ants?
3 MR. MOELLER: Yes. We are presently looking at 4 that, not with all of our energy, but at least with some of 5 it.
6 There are basically two ways of putting together a
? national network. One is to have a computer, for instance, in 8 each Region. I'm not sure exactly what the Regions would be, 9- but conceivably four or five of these around the country, and 10 network them together. That is one way of going.
11 Another way of going is to take the present facility 12 or a new facility and make it one very large one. There are 13 many considerations to be taken into account there. One, of 14 course, is cost. Another one is the fact that you're kind of 15 putting all of your eggs in one basket. There could be 16 economies with one as far as staff is concerned, and we*d like 17 to look at each one of those.
18 But from a technical standpoint, there is no reason 19 why we can't, so to speak, wire the country together with this 20 information, no reason at all not to do that.
21 COMMISSIONER ASSELSTINE: Well, maybe just one last 22 comment. It sounds to me like this is a good idea, and I think 23 from the standpoint of the litigation problem that we talked 24 about earlier, s national network is ultimately the best 25 approach from t h'a t standpoint.
64 1 Eut I think ease and efficiency, benefits to the 2 utilities in terms of operational ability of the plants, the '
3 more that this can be done and on a broader basis, I would 4 think the better. I think it's a good ettor'.
5 MR. MOELLER: Thank.you.
6 COMMISSIONER ZECH: Just a comment. I think it*s 7 been a very valuable presentation, and I appreciate the work 8 you are doing to improve your own etticiency, as well as look 9 out for the public health and safety of your workers, transient 10 workers as well as the utility workers.
11 I think it is certainly a program that you should 12 continue, and I would encourage you to do that and to work 13 closely with our Statt as you go forward, because it just seems 14 to me like it's a sensible thing to do, and we probably should 15 have done more on the utility side a long time ago. But I 16 think it's a very valuable program, and I thank you for the 17 presentation.
18 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Lando, 11 I understand 19 correctly, this is not involving the utility workers themselves 20 at the present time, although I think eventually you would find 21 it attractive to --
22 COMMISSIONER ZECH: No. But these are utility people 23 that we're talking about. Their time is being put into this 24 program.
25 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Oh, I see. From that
o 65 s 1 standpoint, yes. But as participants in the data-gathering or 2 as people around whom data would be gathered, they are not in
- 3 the system.
4 But I think eventually it's a very desirable thing to
$ do, and undoubtedly --
6 COMMISSIONER ZECH: But the utility people are 7 already in the utility system.
8 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Yes, that's right.
9 COMMISSIONER ZECH: So this is a parallel effort, and 10 I think it's certainly a commendable effort.
11 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Yes, I agree with you.
12 COMMISSIONER ROBERTS: Quite interesting.
13 CHAIRMAN PALLADINO: Thank you very much, gentlemen.
14 We appreciate your coming by, and we will stand adjourned.
15 MR. MOELLER: Thank you.
16 [Whereupon, at 3:33 o' clock, p.m., the Commission 17 meeting was adjourned.]
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
1 CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER 2
3 4
5 This is to certify that the attached proceedings 6 before the United States NucIear ReguIatory Commission in the 7 matter of: COMMISSION MEETING G
9 Name of Proceeding: Briefing on Nuclear Employee Data System (NEDS) (Public Meeting) 10 11 Docket No.-
12 Place: Washington, D. C.
18 Date: Tuesday, December 17, 1985 14 15 were held as herein appears and that this is the original 16 transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear
- 17. ReguIatcry Commission.
13 l :)
/i (Signature) .'
/
39 v- ,: <: , -
'// '-//
(Typed Name'of Re, porter) . Suzargne B. Yoting 20 21 22 23 Ann Riley & Associates, Ltd.
24 25
o 12/17/85 SCHEDULING NOTES T!TLE: BRIEFING ON NUCLEAR EMPLOYEE DATA SYSTEM (NEDS)
SCHEDULED: 2:00 P.M., TUESDAY, DECEMBER 17, 1985 (OPEN)
DURATION: APPROX l-1/2 HRS SPEAKERS: PETER MOELLER, CHAIRMAN (45 MIN TOTAL)
(TENTATIVE) NEDS STEERING COMMITTEE AND MANAGER OF SITE PROTECTION PSE8G JOHN BAVLISH, CHAIRMAN i' NEDS SECURITY SUBCOMMITTEE AND CHIEF, NUCLEAR SITE PROTECTION PSE&G _
WAYNE BRITZ, CHAIRMAN HEALTH PHYSICS SUBCOMMITEE AND MANAGER, RADIATION PROTECTION PSE&G DICK SUTTON NEDS PROGRAM MANAGER INTERNATIONAL ENERGY ASSOCIATES i
J l
I
F
\
NUCLEAR EMPLOYEE DATA SYSTEM PRESENTATION TO NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION December 17,1985 l
v l l
1
NUCLEAR EMPLOYEE DATA
, c' SYSTEM PRESENTATION !
- 1) HISTORY i TASK FORCE PILOT UTILITY GROUP SUBCOMMITTEES
- 2) OBJECTIVES CONCEPT OF OPERA TION INFORMA TION
. 3) INDIVIDUAL PRESENTATIONS HEALTH PHYSICS SECURITY MEDICAL TRAINING QUALITYASSURANCE
- 4) IMPLEMENTATION SCHEDULE SYSTEM PROCEDURES REGULA TOR Y INTERFA CE
( 5) QUESTION AND ANSWER
w ,e I
i
)
NUCLEAR EMPLOYEE DATA
- SYSTEM (NEDS) DEVELOPMENT ORGANIZATION i
1 j NEDS IMPLEMENTA TION . ,_
\ TASK FORCE NEDS PILOT UTILITY STEERING COMMITTEE i
I
! I i UTILITY PROJECT DESIGN REGIONAL ORGANIZA TIONAL MEDICAL l MANAGER ,
COORDINA TION -
REPRESENTA TIVES REPRESENTA TIVES LEAL GROUP
. HEALTH l PHYSICS ~
l I NEDS PILOT UTILITY DEVFl.0PMENT LEGAL -
CONTRA CTOR REPRESENTA TlVEh i -
TRAINING 1
CONTROL DATA CORPORA TION
' QUALITY
- SECURITY ASSURANCE l
1 8 O
r . .
i NUCLEAR EMPLOYEE DATA SYSTEMS (NEDS) j OB1ECTIVE: Provide Information, Expeditiously And In A Standard Format, Necessary For In-Processing Transient Workers For Unescorted Access To Nuclear Power Plants.
l Data Requirements
- PERSONAL 1
eSECURITY eHEALTH PHYSICS eRESPIRA TOR Y PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT QUALIFICA TIONS eMEDICAL
- TRAINING
'l
r .
HEALTH PHYSICS REGULATORY ENHANCEMENT THROUGH "NEDS" BETTER CONTROL AND KNOWLEDGE OF INDIVIDUAL EXPOSURE DATA a TIMELY TERMINATION REPORTING CAPABILITY IMPROVED VALIDITY OF DATA, THUS REDUCING THE RISK OF OVER EXPOSURE TO EMPLOYEES
r .
HISTORICAL EXPOSURE RECORD
- ,,,22,:::::: :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ,,:::::::,,,,2,2:12,,, 2 2,,,,22,,,,,,22,,,,,,,,,,,,,
DATES OF EMPLOYMENT e PERIOD OF EXPOSURE WHOLE BODY EXPOSURE WHOLE BODY EXPOSURE STATUS (RECORD, ESTIMATE, UNKNOWN)
r '
QUARTER TO DATE EXPOSURE
- =====================================
m DATES OF EMPLOYMENT E PERIOD OF EXPOSURE a WHOLE BODY (EXPOSURE, STATUS) m EXTREMITIES (EXPOSURE, STATUS) e SKIN (EXPOSURE, STATUS) m MPC-HOUR FLAG (>40 HOURS /7 DAY PERIOD DURING CURRENT QUARTER)
YEAR TO DATE EXPOSURE
~ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = , = = = = =
DATES OF EMPLOYMENT PERIOD OF EXPOSURE WHOLE BODY (EXPOSURE, STATUS)
r . .
LIFETIME WHOLE BODY EXPOSURE AND DOSE LIMIT
- :::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::: ::::::::::: ,1,2,22 12 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
u LIFETIME TOTALWHOLE BODY EXPOSURE AND STATUS (CALCULATED, ESTIMATED, RECORD)
LIFETIME WHOLE BODY DOSE LIMIT l
m RESPIRATORY -QUALIFIC ATIONS l i
a EQUIPMENT TYPE FIT TEST DATE a TRAINING DATE I
I i
r -
SECURITY
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ,
u REGULATORY ENHANCEMENT THROUGH NEDS m STANDARDIZATION OF REQUIREMENTS e INFORMATION TRACEABILITY m RELIABILITY OF WORK FORCE a COMPLIANCE WITH CURRENT &
PROPOSED RULES e RECORD MANAGEMNNT
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SCREENING ELEMENTS NNNNNNNNNNNNNN1NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN1NNNNNNNNN1NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN1NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN ._
EMPLOYMENT HISTORY EDUCATION HISTORY CRIMINAL HISTORY MILITARY SERVICE E CHARACTER AND REPUTATION PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSESSMENT l
I CONTINUAL OBSERVATION
1 l SCREENING EVALUATION CRITERIA
- = = = = = = = = = === = = = = = = = = == = == = === = = = = = = = === = = = =
m OMISSION / FALSIFICATION OF INFORMATION a USE OR POSSESSION OF CONTROLLED /
DANGEROUS SUBSTANCES E PERTINENT CRIMINAL HISTORY u MENTAL ILLNESS / EMOTIONAL INSTABILITY a EVIDENCE OF COERCION, ADVERSE INFLUENCE / PRESSURE E OTHER DEROGATORY RELIABILITY OR TRUSTWORTHINESS INFORMATION u NEGATIVE PSYCHOLOGICAL ASSESSMENT E EACH UTILITY REQUIRED TO MAKE INDIVIDUAL EVALUATION
( ,
= = = = = =
MEDICAL '
=================== .
O RESPIRATORY EXAMINATION mPERFORMED UNDER TIIE DIRECTION OF A LICENSED MD mMEET THE STANDARDS PRESCRIBED IN NUREG-0041, MANUAL OF RESPIRA TOR Y' PROTECTION AGAINST AIRBORNE RADIOA CTIVE MA TERIALS o PHYSICAL EXAMINATION a PERFORMED UNDER THE DIRECTION OF A LICENSED MD a INCLUDES REVIEW OF INDIVIDUAL 'S MEDICAL HISTOR Y OTHER MEDICAL EXAMINATION m OPTIONAL a DRUG SCREENING m PSY~CHOLOGICAL
TRAINING -
= = = = == = = ===== = = === = = = = == = = = = = == = = = = = == = = = = ===
m CURRENT GET-RP TRAINING n INPO 82-004, SECTION 5.4.2 GUIDELINES a RECIPROCAL AGREEMENT WITH NON-NEDS UTILITY' s CURRENT GET-RP TESTING n HISTORICAL DA TA DESCRIBING LOCA TION AND DA TE WORKER PASSED INPO OR INPO EQUIVALENT EXAMINA TION u GENERIC RESPIRATORY PROTECTION EQUIPMENT TRAINING m NUREG-0041, MANUAL OF RESPIRA TOR Y~ PROTECTION A GAINST AIRBORNE 'RADIOA CTIVE MA TERIALS
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QUALITY ASSURANCE / AUDITS -
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I o NEDS PARTICIPANTS AUDITS i
a PERFORMED ANNUALL Y BY EA CH NEDS PAR TICIPANT
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m VERIFY ~ COMPLIANCE WITII NEDS STANDARDS AND PROCEDURES a CIIECKLISTS o NEDS INTER-UTILITY AUDIT a PERFORMED BY A UDIT TEAMS CONSISTING OF PROGRAM MANAGER AND UTILITYREPRESENTA TIVES
} m ASSESS THE EFFECTIVENESS.0F A PAR TICIPANT'S NEDS QUALITY ASSURANCE PROGRAM 1
'1 m CIIECKLISTS
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SECURITY PLAN MODIFICATIONS PERMIT A CCEPTANCE OF SCREENING BY OTHER NEDS PAR TICIPANTS A CCEPT NEDS AS A RELIABLE A CCURA TE SOURCE OF SCREENING DA TA l
UPGRADES TO FULL Y MEET NEDS STANDARDS (ANSI 3.3) i
! HEALTH PHYSICS DATA l MODIFY TECH SPEC TO PERMIT A CCEPTANCE OF NEDS DA TA IN LIEU OF l SIGNED NRC FORM 4 J
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IMPRO VE TIMELINESS TO MEET NEDS STANDARDS to 1
NRC AUDITS I
MEANS NEEDED FOR NRC TO ASSURE ITSELF THA T NEDS IS A RELIABLE 1
SCHEDULE FOR IMPLEMENTATION
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m STANDARDS AND PROCEDURES APPROVED (8/85) .
I a FINAL SPECIFICATION APPROVED (9/29/85)
- a SOFTWARE COMPLETE (11/11/85) 1 l E BEGIN SYSTEM TESTING (SIT) (11/11/85) m FINAL ACCEPTANCE TEST COMPLETE (1/24/86) .
s DATA BASE LOADED / VERIFIED (3/86)
, a BEGIN OPERATIONS (4/86) l u FUTURE EXPANSION (TBD) <
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