ML20195K089
| ML20195K089 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 06/15/1999 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 9906210201 | |
| Download: ML20195K089 (54) | |
Text
'9 C. '..
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UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION l
J
Title:
ALL EMPLOYEES MEETING A J
PUBLIC MEETING 1
Location:
Rockville, Maryland Date:
Tuesday, June 15,.1999 Pages:
1 - 52 g
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9906210201 990615 i
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ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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DISCLAIMER This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of theLUnited States Nuclear RegulatoryLCommission held on June 15, 1999,.in'the Commission's office at One White Flint North, Rockville, Maryland.
The meeting was open to public attendance and observation.
This transcript has not been, reviewed, corrected or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies.
The transcript is intended' solely for general
~
informational purposes.
As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the matters discussed'.
Expressions of opinion in this transcript do not necessarily reflect final determination or beliefs.
No. pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in any proceeding as the result of, or addressed to, any statement or argument contained herein, except as the' Commission may authorize.
V; S-1
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1 UNITED STATES OF' AMERICA 2
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY 5
6 ALL EMPLOYEES MEETING A 7-8 PUBLIC. MEETING 9
10 On the lawn in front of the U.S.
11 Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 12 Rockville Pike 13 Rockville, Maryland 14 15 Tuesday, June 15, 1999 16 17 The Commission met in open session, pursuant to 18 notice, at 10:31 a.m.,
the Honorable SHIRLEY A. JACKSON, 19 Chairman of the Commission, presiding.
20 21 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
22 SHIRLEY a.
- JACKSON, Chairman of the Commission 23 EDWARD McGAFFIGAN, JR.,
Member of the Commission 1
24 GRETA J. DICUS, Member of the Commission I
25 JEFFREY S. MERRIFIELD, Member of the Commission ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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STAFF AND PRESENTERS SEATED AT THE COMMISSION TABLE:
l-2 PATRICIA G. NORRY, Deputy Executive Director for 3
Operations j
4 SALLY ADAMS, ADM/DCPM/CMBI 5
STEPHEN M.
POOL,'ADM/DCPM/CMBI i
6 JOHN T. GREEVES, NMSS/DWM 7
CARDELIA MAUPIN, OSP 1
8 BILL TRAVERS, EDO 9
JESSE FUNCHES, CFO 10 TONY GALANTE, CIO 11 MR. MENDELSOHN 12 EMR. COLLINS 13 MR. HECK 14 MR. DON HALL 15-MR. STEWART 16 MS. AMY SILLER 17 18 19 20, 21-22 23 24 25-ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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P'R O C E E D I N G S 2
(10 : 31 a.m. ]
3 MS. NORRY:
Good morning.
I did it again.
Look 4
at the weather.
Thank you.
s 5
(Applause.]
L6 I'd like to welcome everybody on behalf of the 1
7 Commission to the annual All Hands Meeting.
There will be
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8 time for questions and the usual scene with the microphones.
9 We will have questions that are called in from the regions,
)
10 and those will be read by Sally Adams and Steve Pool over 11 there.
But there are plenty of microphones for you to ask 12 questions.
I'd like to acknowledge we have NTEU officers 1
13 sitting over there joining us today, and we have the EDO, 14' Bill Travers; Jesse Funches, the CFO; and Tony Galante, CIO.
15 As usual, we are planning later this-fall to have 16 an All Hands Meeting jointly with NTEU, so the kinds of 17 questions that relate to specific personnel policies that we 18 usually do not. deal with in this meeting will be appropriate 19 for that meeting.
So I'd appreciate your cooperation in 20 that.
21 Now I'd like to introduce Chairman Jackson.
22 (Applause.]
23 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Good morning, everyone.
24 VOICES:
Good morning.
25 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Let me begin by introducing my ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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colleagues.
'I'll begin by noting that unfortunately 2
Commissioner Diaz is quite ill today.
He will try to come
'3L this' afternoon.
I'll just begin it with my right.
I'm sure 4
everyone knows Commissioner Edward McGaffigan, Commissioner 5
Greta Dicus, and Commissioner Jeffrey Merrifield.
6 On behalf of the-Commission, let me welcome all of 7
you.to'this'special meeting of the Commission with the NRC 8
Staff.
I extend that'welcome of. course both to those of you 9
assembled here in the tent at headquarters and also to 10 groups of employees that are connected by I'm now told 11 videoconference as well as telephone from the region.
12 These All Employees Meetings are an annual 13 tradition here at the NRC as a forum to stimulate and to 14 facilitate direct communication between the Commission and 15 individual members of the staff on mission-related policies 16 and initiatives, to clarify the Commission's agenda to 17 engender a shared vision, and to motivate the NRC staff in 18-pursuit of that vision.
19 In addition, this year of course has a special 20 significance for me, for two reasons.
First, the obvious 21 one, because this will be my last All Employees Meeting that 22 I am likely to attend.
And, secondly, because the p'ast 23 year, of course, has been one of the most challenging and 2:4 -
yet one of the most successful years in NRC history, 25 although, as I will say, history did not begin and end ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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. within the last year.
2 The challenges have come from many sides, but the 3
success I credit in.large part to the hard work of all of 4
you, as well as to'the considerable and primarily 5
construccive input we've received from a wide variety of NRC 6-stakeholders.
At this time last year the future held some 7
' uncertainty, and'to.some of you it may have looked downright 8
_ bleak.
.I believe it is to your credit as members of the NRC 9
staff and NEC management that today we're an~ agency once 10
.again firm _y in control of our own future, clear and 11 confident about the course that lies ahead.
12 As some of you may be aware, the Senate 13 Appropriations Committee recently approved the NRC full 14 budget prop 6 sal at a time when other agencies are finding 15 their budgets slashed significantly by that same committee.
16 While we have yet to hear from the House side, the Congress 17 clearly is sending a positive signal about our achievements 18' in the regulatory arena and about the results of our 19 planning, budgeting, and performance. management efforts here 20 at the NRC.
So I begin this All Employees Meeting simply by 21 saying to all of you and to each of you congratulations on a 22 job well done.
But that's a message I could have been 23 sending to you all the. time, but I know in fact that this 24' past. year has been particularly stressful.
25-When we were facing budget stringencies and ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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criticisms last year, a member of my staff gave me a picture 2
of a sharply meandering road with a caption at the bottom 3
which read:
"A bend in the road is not the end of the road 4
unless you fail to make the turn."
And clearly we have 5
begun to make the turn, but in a way that I feel is 6;
consistent and remains true to our public health and safety 7
' mission.
Much remains to be done, but we are turning.
8 So the question then naturally is how did we get 9
'here.
So I would like to spend a few minutes reflecting on 10 the accomplishments of the past year, but within context of 11 not only the individual milestones but also t.he underlying' 12 framework and concepts we have put into place over the past 13 few years which, if understood and implemented consistently, 14 will ensure stability and continuing progress as we move 15 ahead.
16 At the highest conceptual level are the 17 accomplishments I would characterize as achievements of
.8 vision, and these are the ideals of regulatory excellence, 1
19 the concept that should be present consistently at all 20 levels of our organization as well as in all of our 21 policies, rules, processes, and individual interactions with 22 our stakeholders.
Indeed, as some of you may recall, 23 regulatory excellence was a key direction-setting issue of 24 strategic assessment and rebaselining.
So this is not i
25 something that, you know, we've just thought about here in ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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the last nine months.
2 Initially I will say that we struggled with this 3
concept, but in fact I think our definition of it has become 4
clear as we look at what we have accomplished under this 5
overarching umbrella.
And the first of these represents 6
what I think is the most important achievement of all, and 7
it ironically is in an area in which we have not changed, 8
where we have not changed, and I refer to our continued 9
unambiguous focus on safety as the highest-NRC priority.
I 10 know that that is something that is on the minds of all of 11 you, and that has not changed.
Last year at this meeting in 12 fact I challenged you to hold the center in the face of a
13 multiple external pressures to ensure that we remember our 14 fundamental regulatory health and safety mission.
I believe 15 in fact that despite sweeping changes to our regulatory 16 processes and significant strides in improving our 17 efficiency, we have maintained this emphasis, that we have 18' and we are holding the center.
19 The second achievement of vision is a new standard 20 of regulatory effectiveness, another part of the 21-aforementioned DSI at the NRC.
We have become far more 22 introspective and self-critical in examining our own 23 regulations and programs and very activist about changing 24 them when we.see the need for change.
Words like 25
" objectivity," " defensibility," "scrutability," and ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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" timeliness" have become familiar elements under which we
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2 judge the efficiency and efficacy of both existing programs
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1 J3 and'new innovations.
4 Tied directly.to our regulatory effectiveness is 5
.an unapologetic emphasis on performance, which we sometimes 6
refer to as an' outcomes orientation, because we've learned' 7
to demand bottom-line performance and results not only from 8
ourselves but from those we regulate, and we've given 9
increased focus to developing.and implementing metrics.
10 The final achievement of vision is our success at 11 anticipating and positioning for change, which was a key 12
_ focus of mine when I came in,to the NRC.
This element is 13 best characterized by examples, which range from license 14 renewal to1our efforts to prepare for electric. utility 15 industry restructuring, as well as work that we did 16 anticipating the possible external regulation of DOE
-17 facilities.
And the successful anticipation of change is
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18 undergirded by a healthy and dynamic planning framework that 19 we have begun to put i.nto place.
20 But these elements of vision'in essenc'e have 21 maintained our sense of the big-picture, but they also have 22 led to the successful establishment of a fundamental NRC 23-change of framework which comprises overarching 24 methodologies that guide our approaches to a wide range of 25 Agency programs and processes.
And the first and perhaps ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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S-9 obvious of these is our transition to risk-informed, 1
most j
2 performance-based regulation, 1
3 The prioritization of NRC interactions in a manner 4
where the use of risk insights and assessments is more 4
5 explicit, although not solely dependent on it, but more J
l 6
explicit, has become a fundamental characceristic of our
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7 approach to new rules, to rule changes, program and process 8
changes, and even our budgeting and resource loading.
This 9
concept combined with our increased focus on defining 10 measurable outcomes and demanding performance is becoming, I I
11 believe, a familiar way of thinking at all levels of the NRC 12 and within the regulated community, which may be.the
)
13 clearest indication of our success in this area.
I 14 Another indication of our progress here is that we I
15-are considering ways at the Commission level at this point i
16 and with key staff to risk-inform the entire body of reactor i
17 regulations in Part 50, as well as other requirements in i
18 Parts 35, 63, and 70.
]
19 A second framework achievement is our purposefully J
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20, increased involvement of stakeholders in the regulatory l
21 process.
Clear communications and enhancement of public 22
'onfidence are parts of this framework.
It also includes 23 then our stakeholder meetings, NRC public workshops, and our l
24 general efforts to be more open to constructive criticism, 25 whether it's from the Congress, from our licensees, from i
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public interest groups, or from within our own organization.
2
~As with risk-informed regulation, I believe that this 3
acceptance of and appreciation for stakeholder involvement 4
is becoming:a way of-thinking at NRC.
We have to continue
-5 to' ensure that-our efforts provide equal access to all 6
stakeholders, rather than: privileged access to a select 7,
' group.
8 The final fundamental framework achievement.is in 9
a way.our insurance policy, namely the' basis of our 10-confidence that our successes will continue, and I'm 11 speaking then of our overhauled approach to planning.
Once 12 again, this framework element dovetails with the vision that 13 I laid out earlier, increasing our effectiveness and 14 allowing us to anticipate and position rapidly for emergent 15 issues and changes.
16 Like the other elements of our framework, our 17 planning process has been built slowly and steadily, and has 18 taken the involvement of each of you from the stratcgic 19 assessment.and rebaselining we began in 1995 to our 20 multiyear strategic plan, agencywide performance plan, and 21:
our office-level operating plans to now our present 22 planning, budgeting, and performance management process.
I 23 know that has been bracing and challenging for each of you, 24
-but the successful adoption of this process comprises a 25 fundamental change in the way we do business, which is vital
. ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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'to ensuring'our future success.
2 Now within this overall construct of vision and 3
framework, let.me~get down to some more basic 4:
' bread-and-butter issues.
5-1md so. I ask you to consider with me the scope of 6.
Jthe programmatic issues and regulatory-processes that we I
7
.have. revised and. revitalized.
It is an exhausting list, so j
8 I-ob.viously will only highlight a few things.
So if'your j
9 ithing is.left out, remember, it is on the list.
10 At the top'of the list is the implementation of a 11 newly developed reactor oversight process, starting with the
.12
. pilot program that is just getting underway.
Consider how i
13 this process is tied to the framework and elements of vision 14 already discussed.
The elements of the new process are j
15 clearly tied to cornerstones of safety.
It is 16
' performance-based through the use of performance indicators, 17 and-it is risk-informed through the implementation of a 18 risk-informed, baseline inspection program, as well as in-19 the categorization and validation of performance indicator 20 results.
21 In enforcement, our risk-informed programmatic
-22 review has led to a reduction of unnecessary licensee burden 23 associated *ith the less important Severity Level 4 24 violations and a new direction for the enforcement program 25 which may' assume a more complimentary rather than a' strictly ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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separate role in the reactor assessment process.
2 In our emphasis on. understanding and maintaining
.3 the design basis for power reactors and other nuclear 4
facilities, we are nearing the completion of a revision to 5
-10.CFR 50.59,.the bread and butter rule,.an effort that has 6
- been accompanied by a wide range of improvements to NRC 7
. methods for dealing with facility design changes, temporary 8
modificatione and degraded equipment, including 9
modifications to Generic Letter 91-18 and a refocus on and 10 modification to our implementation of 10 CFR 50.71(e),
11 We have established a power reactor license 12 renewal process that is fair, focused, expedited and 13
-predictable, built around, first, a Commission policy 14 statement; second, case-specific orders on conduct of 15l adjudicatory proceedings; third, Standard Review Plans for 16 10 CFR Parts 54 and 51; fourth, management oversight through 17 a steering committee, a management steering committee, and 18 the Executive Council; and, fifth, and most importantly, 19 dedicated staff work led by Chris Grimes.
20 Is a consequence of our success in this area, we 21 are anticipating, in fact, an increase, and we have got an 22 early heads-up in this regard from a number of licensees, an 23 increase in the number of license renewal applications above 24 our original expectations.
25 But now that we have our planning process in ANN'R LEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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place, we are all ready, right, Sam?
We have anticipated 2
and dealt with a range of issues related to economic
.3 deregulation of electric utilities, including 4_
decommissioning funding assurance, grid reliability, cost 5
competitiveness, and changes in nuclear power industry based 6
business relationships.
I mean by that new business 7
configurations, new ownership arrangements, increases in 8
license transfers and possible increases in decommissioning.
9 And we have modified our decommissioning funding rule and we 10 will continue to make improvements as we implement it.
11L We have a new rule, Subpart M, governing 12 adjudicatory proceedings fo,r license transfers, and we have 13 participated on an inter-agency task force with the DOE and 14 FERC on grid reliability issues and on and on, and on and on 15 in this arena.
16 We have made comparable improvements in our 17 regulation of the uses of nuclear materials and management 18 of radioactive waste.
For example, we used risk insights 19 and information to de.velop a reasonable and widely accepted 20 rule on radiological criteria for license termination.
This
~21 progress is continuing today in our development of J
22 implementing guidance for'the license termination rule, as
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23 well as in rulemakings on medical uses of nuclear materials, 24 Part'35; high level waste disposal at Yucca Mountain, Part 25 63; and nuclear fuel fabrication, Part 70, which we just had ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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a discussion about in a Commission meeting yesterday.
2 We have applied business principles in 3
streamlining our licensing reviews for radioactive materials 4
and spent fuel storage, including the materials business 5
process reengineering and guidance consolidation projects.
6 We have demonstrated innovation and flexibility 7
with paramount attention to safety in effectively overseeing 8
the privatization of the U.S. Enrichment Corporation.
We 9
even developed a Standard Review Plan to lay out for the 10 financial community, as well as our ourselves, our 11 requirements as an initial public offering was conducting, 12 and in conducting the pilot projects on external regulation 13 of the U.S. Department of Energy facilities, where the l
14 staff's paper, with Commission approval and guidance, is 15 about to go to the Congress.
16 In the international arena, we achieved a major 17 milestone when the U.S. Senate rati~fied the Convention on 18 Nuclear Safety, representing the completion of a long-term 19 inter-agency effort in which NRC representatives played a 20 significant part.
I, of course, personally, am also proud 21 of the establishment of the International Nuclear Regulators 22 Association.
23 We achieved recognition earlier this year by 24 achieving our Year 2000 readiness goals well ahead of 25 schedule.
We also have developed a contingency plan ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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developed for unforeseen difficulties both here at the NRC
'_2 and with regard to our licensees.
3' Our improvements in the procurement area resulted
_4 in two Hammer Awards from the Vice President.
5 And, finally, we have developed and are 6
implementing ADAMS, and though it has had some difficulties, 7
we are beginning the development'of a new resource 8
management-system,' STARFIRE.
9-So I would like to reemphasize, in closing, the 10 significance of what we have accomplished.
I believe that 11 all'.of you have been aware of and obviously touched by the 12 rapid pace of change across a wide spectrum of NRC 13 functions.
What you may be less aware of, depending upon 14 your position and area of specialty, is how positively 15 impressed our stakeholders have been,' both with the rapidity 16 of the change and the consistent good judgment! that has 17 characterized.our decisions.
-18 Let me just mention one of them, and that is the-19, reactor oversight process.
I think we have a challenge in 20-communication what that new process is and what it will 21 accomplish.
Nonetheless, we not only have received
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l 22
' compliments, obviously, from licensees, but from the j
23 Congress and from a key member of one of the nuclear 24 watchdog groups that typically has been very critical of the 25-NRC.
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For an agency of our size, with our span of 2
overs'ight and complexity of functions, to have made this 3
much progress on this many fronts is considered truly 4
remarkable.
And these changes were not accomplished 5
overnight.
The achievements of vision and the fundamental 6
framework that I have outlined were developed over several 7
' years, and only because that groundwork was laid in changes 8
to most NRC programs and processes over the past few years 9
were we able to make so much specific progress in the last 10 year.
11 Both the short-term and longer-term, achievements' 12 then clearly are the result of the hard work, innovative 13 thinking and a. commitment to excellence on the part of the 14 Commission, NRC staff and NRC management.
Whether viewed 15 individually or collectively, these achievements give us all 16 a glimpse of what we can accomplish, even as they set the 17 stage for continued enhancements in our regulation of 18 nuclear safety and safeguards.
19 This is but a thumbnail sketch,' literally, of all 20 that we have done.
We have come a long way since Millstone, 21 which became a major issue shortly after I arrived.
All of 22 what has.been done since that bears out what I have always 23 believed, and continue to believe about NRC, that the 24 quality and dedication of its people are unsurpassed by any 25 organization either inside or outside of government, that is ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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anywhere.
And I have had the virtue of having major career 2
positions in industry,-in academia and in government.
And 3
so this is clear to me.
4 I thank you all then for your support and yLar 5
responsiveness to the Commission, and before I offer an 6
opportunity for any of my colleagues for any individual 7'
comments they.wish to.make, let me make a statement and then 8
ask something of you straight-away.
I know one of the'first 9
questions that is probably on the tip of a thousand tongues 10 maybe is -- well, what is going to happen as you leave?
I 11 am obviously leaving the NRC in two-and-a-half weeks, and 12 this is what I can tell you from my interactions with the 13 White House.
The White House is moving along the line'of 14 selecting a nominee for my seat who would become the 15 Chairman of the NRC, but that process, and so, obviously, 16 you have not heard a nomination having been made,.so there 17 will, in' fact, be an interim Chairman, and our best 18-understanding is that interim Chairman is going to be 19 Commissioner Greta Dicus.
20
' (Applause.]
21 CHAIRMNT JACKSON:
So having said that, let me 22 offer my colleagues an opportunity for any comments they 23 wish to make.
And I will, of course, begin with j
24 Commissioner Dicus.
25 COMMISSIONER DICUS:
I think we are on.
Yes.
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Actually, I didn't prepare anything, and so I will 2
just make a couple of comments off the cuff.
When I first 3
came to the NRC I mentioned the fact that I had worked with 4
the agency quite a bit in my capacity as director of a state 5
agency, that was Radiation Control Agency, and the amount --
6 one full amount of respect that I did have in the NRC --
7 now, there is a lot of -- you know, the agreement states 8
sometimes are not particularly agreeable, and sometimes we 9
would kind of bandy about a bit with the NRC.
But of all 10 the federal agencies that I worked with, and I did have to 11 work with quite a few, I always felt the NRC was the best, 12 had the best professional staff and really had the best 13 focus on its mission and what it needed to do.
14 And since I have been here, clearly, I continue to 15 have that feeling about this agency and about you who make 16 it so very, very, very successful, and make me really proud 17 to be here and be part of the NRC.
18 We have a lot of challenges coming.
We have heard 19 what the Chairman in her comments about some of the things J
20 that we will be doing, some of the things that will be 21 changing, and there is a lot of work to be done.
It has 22 been a difficult year, but it has been a very good year.
23 But I have the absolute confidence in all of you that we can 24 continue this path and continue to do the excellent job that 25 you have been doing, and I thank you for that.
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[ Applause.]
2 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Commissioner McGaffigan.
3 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
I might just pick up on 4
a couple of the, points the Chairman.made and elaborate.
I, 5
first of all, really am~proud of everything that we have 6
done, you have done in the last nine months.
When we were 7
together last in September, there was a bit of a somber mood 8
and there was a sense that further shoes might drop.
But 9
now, as the Chairman pointed out, the Senate Appropriations 10-Committee has commended every one of you for the job you 11 have done the last nine months, and the Chairman has rattled 12 off, and I have a longer list, which she also alluded to, of 13 things that we have accomplished, and I am not going'to go 14 through it.
15 One of the things that the Chairman mentioned was 16 this proactive engagement with stakeholders, and I think we 17.
are doing -- I think that is one of the biggest changes that 18 we have made.
There is much better external communication 19 than there was before.
I will tell you, this is probably 2Q micro-management, but last night I even checked with Paul 21 Gunter to make sure that NIRS knew about the Y2K meeting 22 that is going on simultaneously as we meet here, an'd, of 23 course, he did.
And he had been contacted well ahead of 24" time, as he had been promised at the February meeting.
But 25 that-is not the typical person that we are sure to engage, ANN RILEY &. ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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yet the staff had engaged him, and as we should.
But there l
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2
'was a time there I think where we didn't reach out to
.3 everyone.
4 Today we are reaching out to everyone.
The West 5
. Valley process that we went through recently and completed 6
the SRM on, it is in materials space, but we did an 7-
. excellent job of interacting with stakeholders.
The staff 8
and the Commission learned-from a public meeting.
We got a 9
further paper, and I think we made a good decision in the 10 end, with much more information than we started, as a result 11
'of this proactive engagement.
12 So I would encourage that we continue tc be'an 13 open institution, as the Chairman did, open to all 14 stakeholders, trying to learn frem all stakeholders, and 15 then making decisions that probably will not satisfy all 16 stakeholders.
I mean that is
- we had the discussion at 17 the' meeting about strategic planning, about what the public 18 confidence means, and,I don't think it is a poll as to' 19 whether our decisions are right, it is a process issue.
It 20 is process of engaging everybody so that they feel that they 21 had their full input into the decisions we make.
22 In the end we will make some decisions that are 23 unpopular with one stakeholder or another, and that is as it 24-should be.
But we are doing a very good job.
I think we 25 have to continue to run quickly I think we have to ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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.1 continue to tout ourselves.
I mean, you know, one of the 2
things I think we have done much better the last year or 3
two, and we got come compliment in the Appropriations 4
report, our monthly reports, which I hope you all read.
Our 5.
monthly reports to Senator Domenici really are documents 6
where we are trying to brag about what we have done the last 7
' month, and they have been very full, because we have had a 8
lot to brag about every month.
And we are going to have to 9
continue.
10 I think once -- there is no end to change, as I 11 think somebody said back in September.
Once.you are on a' 12 change path, we have to continue to improve.
We know how to 13 improve.
I can see the next several months.
I can't see 14 the next-several years, but I am pretty darn sure that the l
15 course that we are on, we.are going to -- with all your
{
16 help, we are going to stay the course, and when we next 17 meet, this will be an even better agency than it is today.
18 Thank you.
19 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Thank you.
20
[ Applause.]
21 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Commission Merrifield.
22 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Like Commissioner Dicus, 23 I do not have any prepared remarks today, but I would like 24.
to make comments on t'wo things, first about the Chairman and 25
_then about the staff.
The Chairman is leaving us and I l
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think bhe should be very proud of the accomplishments that 2-she has ha'd since the time that-she came her to the agency.
3 When we measure a leader in a group, there is two 4-things that you -- I think that you look at as you evaluate 5
how that individual has done.
First, is the agency or is 6
the entity that that person has managed, has it improved 7
from the point where that person took over to the point in 8
which they are leaving?
And, secondly, is that agency or.
9 management function in the position to move forward and 10 become even better after that person leaves?
11 I think by any measure, and I think the Chairman 12 has talked about a number of those measures today, this 13 agency is in a better position than it was when she came.
14 And I think after she leaves, we and the other Commissioners 15 will certainly be served well by an agency that will 16 continue to improve as time goes on.
So from that 17 standpoint, I do thank -- I certainly do thank the Chairman 18 for her efforts in that regard.
19 CRAIRMAN JACKSON:
Thank you.
20 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
The second issue that I 21 would want to talk about is the staff.
I spent on or off 22-Capitol Hill about 12 years and worked in relationshi'p to 23 the Senate Environment Committee, which is, as you all know, 24 the committee that oversees the functions of this agency.
25 And during the time I spent in that committee it was very ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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' evident to me the reputation this agency had for a very 2
knowledgeable and accomplished group of individuals.
3 Till I came to the agency about eight months ago 4-at this point, and had the' opportunity to meet a number of 5'
people.who interviewed to j oin my of fice, and, indeed, the 6
' individuals who I met in the intervening _ time, the one thing
?
that has come to my mind is not only does this agency have a 8
very high level of expertise, knowledge and drive among its 9
employees, but that level is very consistent, that. virtually H10
_everyone who I have met here is someone who I am very proud 11 to say that I work with.
And I think this is a true nature 12 of what'a good agency _we ar,e and the reason we have been 13 able to accomplish'the successes that the Chairman mentioned 14 in her presentation earlier.
So that would be the last 15 comment I would like to make, and so I turn it back to the 16 Chairman.
17 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Thank you.
'18
[ Applause.]
19 CHAIRMAN JA.CKSON:
Thank you for your kind 20-remarks, Commissioner Merrifield.
I really appreciate.that.
21 Well, let's open it up.
Not that you ever needed
~22 encouragement, but let me encourage you to ask, you know, 23 everything you wanted to know but were unafraid to ask, as 24 well as what you may have been afraid to ask.
But this is 25 our time to really have as open and as fruitial a discussion ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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.as we can.
So let's begin with the first question.
2 (No response.]
3 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Oh, you have no questions.
4 Okay.
Yes.
5 MR. ADAMS:
. Chairman Jackson, I have a question 6
from' Region I regarding --
7 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
I think you are on now.
8 MR. ADAMS:
I have a' question from Region I 9
regarding the reactor program.
4 10 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
One second.. Pat, what can we 11 do?
12 MR. ADAMS:
This question is from Region I 13 regarding reactor programs.
There has been some discussion 14 of extending the length of the pilot program to assure that 15 it would sufficiently test the new reactor oversight 16 program.
What is the Commission's thinking regarding how 17 long the pilot should last and whether there are any 18 critical aspects of the oversight program.beyond the 19 baseline inspections that need to be fully tested before 20 full implementation of the program?
21 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Okay.
Well, let me sort of go 22.
.in the inverse order.
The program is designed to test key 23 elements of the new reactor oversight process, including the
'24 use and validation of the performance indicators, the 25 implementation of the risk-informed baseline inspection ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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program, and an overall streamlined approach to reactor I
2-oversight, as well as the beginning changes to the 3
= enforcement program.
4 Even though the initial -- the statement is on 5
paper that the pilot is a six month pilot, I think there 6
already is consensus-within the Commission that the pilot 7
program is going to need to take longer than that.
So it 8
will be at least a nine month. program, and then I think it 9
is a question of what we see as the program unfolds.
But 10 the Commission is committed to having the program, the pilot 11-take as long as it needs to t'ake in order to shake out what 12 the key issues are for the successful implementation of this 13 process, because it represents a major change in how we do 14 business.
15 Is there another question?
Please.
16 MR. POOL:
Can you hear me?
17-CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Yes.
Thanks.
18 MR. POOL:
This question is from Region IV.
The 19-new risk-informed baseline inspection program has basically 20 eliminated the observation of daily operator actions and has 21 reduced the observation of normal maintenance activities.
22l What are you thoughts on the.need for the Resident
. 23 Inspectors to continue to conduct back shift observations if
'24 no risk significant activities are conducted during these 25 times?
l ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
I'think, I mean,from my y
'2 understanding there is a major miscommunication, because 3
none.of those things are occurring.
I mean there.:Us no 4
reduction intobservation of -- Resident Inspector 5
observation of the activities that you mentioned.
I don't 6-know if any of-the senior managers have'anything to say, but 7
.I! think we are on.the same page here, that that is-just a 8
miscommunication,:that is just not true.
And if we need to 9
provide'some clarification, then I will make sure that the 10 senior managers provide that clarification, because I don't 11 know where these rumors are coming.from, but.it is just not 12-true.
13 Is there a question back here?
I don't believe 14 it.
You mean we set up this tent for nothing.
15 MR. ADAMS:
Chairman Jackson, I have another 16 question from Region I.
This one regards materials program.
17 Regarding the issue of external regulation of DOE, what is
~
18
.the Commission's view of the likelihood of the continuation
, 19 or expansion of the pilot pro' gram?
20 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Well, I think, and I am also 21 going to give Commissioner McGaffigan a chance to make a 22 comment ~because he has been one who, with me, has been, you 23 know, very much following this.
I think at this point it is 24 unclear whether the pilot program will go any further than 25 where it-is.
I think the-Commission is clear that -- which ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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has been.our position all along, and it has been reinforced 2
by the pilot, that there is a reason to and value added to 3
be provided by NRC's external oversight of DOE nuclear 4
safety -- the safety of' DOE nuclear activities and 5
facilities.
I think that is the point we are making.
That 6
is why we are in fact submitting the staff paper separately I
7 with our own comments and Commission endorsement to the 8
Congress.
1 9
But in the absence of DOE support and the support 10 from the Congress, it is difficult to say that we can go 11 much further.
But I think we have compiled a very good 12 record and that record makes the case in and of itself of 13 the fact that there would be value added and it is easily j
14 done and can'be done in a cost effective manner.
15 And so I believe that this is an issue whose time 16 will come again.
And I think this record we have. compiled 17 will help in facilitating decisions along that line.
18 Commissioner McGaffigan, I don't know if you
'19 wanted to make --
20
' COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
I agree with what the 21 Chairman said, this is an-issue whose time will come again.
22 And I think the Commission is united in making the case that 23 at least for the ER and NE facilities, we already have 24 enough information to make that case.
For the Defense 1
25 program facilities that was always in the distance, even ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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under Secretary O' Leary's and under Secretary Grumbly's 2
original plan.
But, unfortunately, the Senate 3
Appropriations Committee has indicated they are not 4
interested in external regulation.
The Secretary of Energy 5
has indicated he is not interested in external regulation.
6 And so while there are some committees, the House 7
Science Committee, that are still interested, the chances of 8
a bill getting through Congress that would impose this on 9
the Department of Energy over its opposition I think are 10 remote.
That doesn't mean that the huge amount of 11 interaction we have with the Department of Energy won't 12 continue.
And at least one facility, the MOX facility, is 13 going to come under external regulation per statute passed 14 last year, as it had to because it is fundamental to the 15 reactor program as a whole, and its product will be used in 16 reactors if it is indeed built.
17 So, and there is a vast amount of other 18 interaction.
Part 63, the interaction on Yucca Mountain, 19 the interaction with Naval reactors, the interaction on 20 decommissioning issues at West Valley, et cetera, and I 21 suspect on an ad hoc basis we will continue to be drawn in, 22 with our General Counsel making sure that we don't get drawn 23 in unwittingly or without adequate statutory basis, but 24 which occasionally some parts of DOE seek-to do.
25 But we aren't going to be externally regulating ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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DOE in the next couple of years and I think we have built 2
that into our-planning assumptions.
i l
3 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
My last comment I would make on 4
that is the following.
Like so many things, this is 1
5 something, this is a house that is likely to be built brick 6
by brick.
As Commissioner McGaffigan has pointed out, there l
7 are already any number of areas where either de facto or by 8
statute we already are involved with and/or regulate aspects 9
of DOE's nuclear activities.
I think those things will grow 10 over time.
11 I think, obviously, the policy framework and the 12 political will does not exist at this point to make it
]
H 13 happen whole cloth, but I think it will in fact be growing 14 in an incremental way.
j 15 Are there other -- any questions from the audience 16 here?
Any more from the regions?
17 Keep talking, it will c'me on, I think.
o 18 MR. POOL:
Okay.
There we go.
I have another 19 question from Region IV,-Chairman Jackson.
With the 20 continuing reduction in the budgetary allocations being 21 provided to the agency, and the increasing impact of 22 overhead expenses, are our contingency plans considering the 23 elimination or consolidation of regional offices?
24 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Let me answer this in two ways.
25 One, we are beginning a review where we are involving Arthur l'
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-Andersen at various support functions and looking at how, 2
you know, whether there are opportunities for enhanced 3
efficiencies or better ways of doing things.
That is a 4,
study that is just getting underway and, therefore, there is 5
nothing to be said in terms of where we may come out on 6
that.
7 With respect to consolidation of regions and 8
offices, I always answer such a question in the following 9
way, it is important to start at the -- my staff has heard 10 this before, some of the senior managers have heard this 11-before -- it is important always to start at the right end 12 of the paragraph.
And the right end of the paragraph is, 13 what is it we need to do?
How can we best be optimally 14-organized to do it in a way that ensures our ability to 15 carry out our fundamental health and safety mission?
Even 16 as we look for better ways to plan, budget and manage our 17 work, and'we let those results drive where we go as an 18 agency, whether it has to do with some over-arching 19 reorganization, such as the one that occurred a couple of 20 years ago, whether it involves some intra-office 21
' reorganization, such as the ones that have occurred in the 22 past, this past year, or whether we have one that involves 23 our geographic organization, it is premature to make any 24 statement about where we are going to come out on that.
25 We have this pilot program getting underway that ANN R$ LEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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will inform how we want to handle power reactor oversight.
2 We have a number of initiatives going on in the materials 3
area, as well as this specific administrator study that is 4
going on.
And so there is no statement.to be made. 'This is l
5 kind of like the mushroom that grows over night, it keeps l
6 coming back.
But the answer is also like the mushroom that 7
' grows overnight, we have to start at the right end of the l
8 paragraph.
9 And this is not meaning to give a political answer 10 to that question, it is meant to give the answer to that 11 question.
And that is, until we work our way through all'of 12 these things, we are starting at the wrong end of the 13 paragraph, if we are talking about we are going to do X.
14 And I have admonished even the nuclear industry in this, 15 because they raised this question.
You are going to 16 collapse the regions, you are going to do this, you are k
17 going to do that.
We are not doing anything until we are j
4 18 clear on where we are going.
19 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Chairman.
20 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Please.
21 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Chairman, if I could add 22 to that.
I know we have -- and not to start at the wrong 23 end of the paragraph perhaps, we have gotten comments from 24 some of our outsider stakeholders about regions.
I think 25 that is the reason we have gotten these questions.
I have
(
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gotten the same question when I visited the regions this 2
year, and I have been fortunate enough to visit all the i
3 regions, all of our outside offices, including the folks 4
down at TTC this year.
5 I am personally just speaking for myself, I am a 6
fan of regions.
I think having a presence outside of 7
Washington is.useful.
And so I think, you know, however we 8
-- whatever kind of report we get back from Arthur Andersen 9
and from our senior staff, we will have to think of -- keep 10 that in mind.
11 The other point I would want to make is, and these 12 are very serious decisions, and I think we -- certainly I 13 recognize that.
The questions engendered from indivi. duals 14 who are living in a region, they like where they live, their 15 family likes where they live.
They are happy in their jobs.
16 So we as a Commission have to keep that in mind.
I mean 17 these are members of the NRC family Any decision that has 18 been made in the past, or potentially can made in the future 19 about closing an office is a heart-wrenching one.
I know 20 when we closed Region V and the folks out in Walnut Creek, 21 it was an exceedingly difficult decision for the Commission 22 because we knew in the end, that this -- we are talking 23 about families, we are talking about not only families 24 within people's own sub-units, but members of the NRC 25 family.
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So I.just, I want to leave folks with the 2
impression that as we go down the line, these are decisions 3
we will'take with the utmost seriousness because it is 4
issues so near and dear to our own hearts.
5 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
Madame Chairman, I might 6
. add just an additional thought.
I agree with.what both of l
7 you have said.
We should be frank, it is the Nuclear Energy 8
Institute and their comments on the feed rule that keep 9
bringing this up and planting the seed.
I know from my 10 experience in Defense matters, that just as a matter of 11 economic efficiency, you know, you can get rid of bases, but 12 it costs a lot of money to save money in the long run.
And 13 in this case, I agree with Commissioner Merrifield, that my 14 bias is towa'rds maintaining regions.
That is what -- the 15 French have regional inspectorates, other nations.
You can 16 run everything out of headquarters, but in a big nation, the 17 size of the United States, to run everything out of 18 Washington, I think would be mistaken.
19 But even from an efficiency perspective, it isn't 20 clear to me, given the stringency that Congress faces, going 21 ahead, in the years ahead with the very tight budget caps, 22 that outside of the Defense sector anybody is going to be --
23 has a mandate to downsize government, bring it back to 24 Washington, which runs counter to themes of many in the I
i 25 Congress.
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Juld pay the up-front cost that that would require.
I am not 2-even.sure that NEI would want its members to be paying the 3'
up front-cost it would require to collapse regions, even if 4
we thought that was a good idea.
5 So the1other, in order to keep something going
,6
'here, the other question that comes up with the NEI comments
^
' s, you know, I see Ashok there, why not get rid of i
7-8 research?
And the answer there is hell, no, too.
I mean --
9 and I think that's universal.
But it keeps coming up.
It 10 was in the Tim Martin report last year. LYou have a mature 11 industry, and what do you need research for a,nymore?
And 1 12 think research is showing with its work on the source term 13_
rulemaking, with its work, some very good work, on a license 14 amendment with regard to electrosleeving, et cetera, that's 15 it's providing real value that benefits the darn industry.
16 It isn't just. coming up with new requirements, although it 17 will do that too, if'they're necessary, but that if you have 18 an industry that has a future, you need to have a research 19 program into the safety aspects of that industry.
So 20 whatever NEI is saying in its comments about the end of 21 research is not going to be reflected in the Commission's 22 budget, either.
23 I'm just doing this to filibuster so somebody can 24 get to the microphone.
25' CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Well, I'll continue the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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filibuster-for about 30 seconds.
2 COMMISSIONER DICUS.:
I just want to put my 2 3
cents' worth --
4 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Okay.
5 COMMISSIONER DICUS:
To this issue 'cn1 the regions.
6 I think I have -- I agree with everything that's been said 7
so far, and I think I'have the same bias against closing 8
down the regions.
'I was even against closing Region V, so I 9
think you know where.we're pretty well coming from from that 10 particular perspective.
11 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
In the end the only thing that 12 should matter at the most fundamental level is what our 13 health and safety job is.
And we need to make that point 14 continuously.
We need to understand it.
It's very 15 difficult to provide oversight of facilities that are as 16 far-flung and diverse as those we have to perform the 17
-oversight of without being out where they are.
And you all 18 should keep that in mind, and I think you've got the 19
' individual as well as the collective vote of the Commission 20
-here today.
21 (Applause.]
i 22 MR. GREEVES:
Is the mike going to work?
23 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Keep talking.
It will.
1 24-MR. GREEVES:
Chairman Jackson and several of the l
25 Commissioners mentioned the need to work with stakeholders, ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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andlthe staff went through some exercises on.that for the
- 2'
.high-level waste program..And we verygmuch understand that 3
and appreciate it.
4 I was wondering, Chairman-Jackson, if you could
.5 share with us some of.the areas you think maybe we've done 6
particularly well, and maybe.some other areas that we need 7
to improve upon, because I believe this is an' area that'we 8.
do need to work on.
And I'd appreciate it if you could 9
share those types of answers-with the staff.
10 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Well, you know, I think there's.
11.
'a lot that you've done well, we've done well.
I think just 12 the greater degree.of openne.ss.overall, the willingness to 13 have the, kinds of public meetings.that we have, the 14 willingness to walk into the mouth of the lion when we know 15 that we're going into what are fundamentally pretty hostile 16 situations at times, and the patience the staff has shown in 17 participating in meetings that sometimes go on for hours and
~
18 hours2.083333e-4 days <br />0.005 hours <br />2.97619e-5 weeks <br />6.849e-6 months <br /> and to respond to questions, sometimes questions'that 19 come up over and over.again.
I'm impressed by the degree of 20 patience and the willingness that the staff has shown, I 21 think the kind of public workshops that we're having and 22 have been having where people come in and they're ready to 23 roll up their sleeves and get to the heart of the matter.
24 If there are things or areas where we can improve, 25 I would just mention two.
One is that we have to remember ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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7 S-37 in talking with stakeholders that we're not always talking 1
2 to experts or-those who are in the family, and if we then
\\
3 talk in acronyms and engineeringese or, you know, under an 4
assumption that people know, you know, just what the 5
unspoken word is, then we don't do ourselves a favor in 6
terms of public confidence or increasing understanding of 7
what we're doing.
Also, we have to be willing to be 8
repetitive in.what we have to say, but not in the sense of 4
9 being denigrating to those to whom we talk. '
10 The second area I believe we could stand to 11 improve in, but I already know that some steps are under way 12 to address this specific issue, and that has to be the point 13 of ensuring that all stakeholders have equal access at the 14 same time to items, papers, and other things before the 1
15.
Commission so that' we don't either in fact provide or are 16 not appearing to provide unfair up-front access to potential 17 Commission actions to certain stakeholders to the detriment 18 of others.
And I think there are some initiatives under way 19 even before ADAMS is fully implemented to make more explicit 20, use of our website and as a primary vehicle for getting 21 things out to all of our stakeholders in an equal way.
And 22 I'd say those two are key.
23 And a third, or you might call this 1(b), which 24 has to do with communications, is being sure that, you know, i
25 we're sending common messages, that we aren't all over the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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map and that we don't inadvertently give the wrong 2
impression.
Something that has come up, people have raised 3-to me, is that people have some concern that,.you know.
4-we've. rolled over and are, you-know, the handmaidens of the 5
nuclear industry, and that people talk all the time as if 6
the only driver in what we do is relieving regulatory 7
burden.
And we have to be careful in our language that 8
we're talking about relief'of. unnecessary regulatory burden, 9
for instance.
10 I've always said that regulation by definition has 11 burden associated with it.
So if we want burden to go away, 12 then we should go away.
But assuming that that is not the 13 case, then we have to just be very careful and clear in how 14 we explain what we're doing, why we're doing it, and we 15 intend to be fair to all of'our stakeholders including those 16 we regulate.
I mean, the fact that we regulate them doesn't 17 mean we should not be fair to them.
But we also should 18 recognize that they are not the only stakeholders in the 19 process.
20 Comments?
21 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
I might -- again I agree 22
.with the Chairman on both her points where there's room for 23 improvement, and I am aware of the efforts to reach all 24 stakeholders simultaneously.
ADAMS, Tony Galante assures 25 us, will' solve this problem permanently around January 1 of ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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next year, but I think there's been enormous improvement.
I 2
think one of the problems we had is that we're having more 3
of these workshops, and some of them have been less than 4
adequately noticed, et cetera.
5 But I mentioned earlier the anecdote of talking to 6
Paul Gunter, and he was well aware of today's meeting that 7
was going on this morning on Y2K.
I've gotten compliments 8
from.NRDC, compliments occasionally from UCS, although Mr.
9 Lochbaum also holds us to a high standard of adequate 10 notification, as he should.
And so I think that we are 11 doing a remarkable job, and I think we're, you know, we just 12 had an ISCRS meeting here a few days ago, and when they're 13 here, we have them -- they're open, and some of the public 14 participants at the Interagency Steering Committee on 15 Radiation Standards commented about the fact that these 16 meetings should be open all the time.
That is our Agency's 17 position, but when those meetings ~ occur in other agencies, 18 they thus far have not been open.
19 So I think we have a lot to brag about about our 20 openness, but as I talked earlier, we need to stay the 21 course and get even more proactively opened than we are 22 today, and I think there will be more confidence in our 23 decisions, although if you're open and you get everybody's 24 opinion, it's absolutely certain you're going to disagree 25 with somebody's at the end of the process, unless they're ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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all in agreoment.
2 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
I think the metric has to be 3'
that one is open to inputs from all sides, that one weighs 4
carefully and fairly those inputs, but within the context of 5
' an understanding that_those who have the decisions to.make 6
will make those decisions..But it's not a vote, other than 7
here, of course.
8 Are there any other questions from the regions?
9 Any questions from here?
No one's asking any 10
. questions.
11 Excuse me, we have one here.
12 MS. MAUPIN:
Good morning.
I have a question in
' 13 the area of. decommissioning.
Right now there are some 14 concerns I guess at Maine Yankee at looking at NRC standards 15 versus those of the EPA.
Overall what is the Commission's 16 opinion in terms of decommissioning and maybe the eventual 17
' turning.over of these facilities to the Agreement States 18 once the facility is decommissioned, if the Commission has 19 any views on that?
20 dHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Do you want to make a comment?
21 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
You can mention this at 22 the Reg Info conference if you want.
I'm not sure -- we 23 have a rule under which Maine Yankee is supposed to 24
-decommission.
We promulgated it after years of study 25-following all the Administrative Procedures Act rules.
We t
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have a generic environmental impact statement that goes 2
multivolumes justifying the rule.
And we think that's a
.3 standard, the 25 millirems to the~ average member of the 4
critical gr nip, that should be applied to decommissioning 5
activities.
6 The Environmental Protection Agency has by 7
gui' dance documents suggested a different standard, but they 8
have never undertaken rulemaking or never actually proposed 9
a rule.
And until and unless there's a rule that would 10 trump our rule, I don't see that we should bow to EPA 11 regional administrators' hortatory rhetoric.
12 Furthermore, the, notion that once a site is 13 cleaned up to our standard that it would score in any way as 14 a dirty site that would need further remediation would be an 15 abuse of the Superfund program, I believe.
I mean, there 16 are far, far dirtier sites in this Nation.
I occasionally 17 refer to my backyard --
'18
[ Laughter.)
19 But I hope.it's not -- there are far, far dirtier 20 sites that would never score, and putting this somehow as a 21
. political matter because our photons and alpha particles and 22 gamma rays are not natural would be an abuse.
23 But I recognize, I mean, it's very uncomfortable 24 for Maine Yankee, as they've said publicly, to have this 25 threat, that they clean up to our standard and then either i
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no, this is still a dirty site, and now you have to clean it 3
up further.
4-We've asked the Congress to resolve this issue as 5
part of our legislative program.
I don't think that's going 6
to happen right away, but in the long run Congress has to 7
decide this issue, I believe, or else EPA has to rulemake, 8
and as they have the authority to do, but that would be a 9
very interesting rulemaking if they go back to the papers 10 that they had back in 1996 which if they had seen the light of day would not have justi5ied the rule.
11 12 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Commissioner Merrifield has a 13 question, because I know he's thought a lot -- I mean a 14
-comment he wishes to make, because I know he's thought a lot 15
.about this..But let me just make one statement to the 16 latter part of the young lady's question.
The solution is 17 not to be turning the site over to' Agreement States.
18 First of all, that's the first I've heard of that 19 kind of a thought.
But beyond that, somehow turning a site
- 20 over to an Agreement State has an implication that there's 21
.still something to be regulated.
And since the point of our 22 license termination rule is that when a license has been 23.
- terminated under the rule, it has been cleaned up enough for 24 free release unless there's some specific institutional 25 control that has to be maintained, there is nothing left to ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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be' regulated.
And therefore, you know, that is not in our 2:
thinking at all.
3 Commissioner Merrifield.
4 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Yes, there have been 5
some comments made by some EPA regional administrators in 6
some letters exchanged between the Chairman and EPA 7
Administrator Carol Browner about the whole issue of 8
Superfund as it relates to these cleanups, and I, having 9
been the chief Superfund counsel in the United States Senate 10 for four years, I will further underscore Commissioner 11
~ McGaffigan's remarks, that there are far more things out 12' there the EPA could be. bothered with, particularly under its 13 RCRA list of sites to be cleaned up, that are far, far more 14 serious than.any of the sites that we have under our 15 control, and I would certainly recommend them to spend some 16 good time there rather than trying to duplicate what we're 17 doing around here.
18 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
But this afternoon after our 19 second session of all employees, we may go to take a look at 20
' Commissioner McGaffigan's backyard.
. 21.
[ Laughter.]
22 There was another question from the region.
23 MS. ADAMS:
Chairman Jackson, this question is 24 from Region II.
25 What is the Commission's view of the performance ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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indicator process?
2 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Well, since it is in fact part 3
and parcel of the new reactor oversight program, we 4
obviously feel that it is a key element of that.
It's 5
something whose time has come.
,6 You know, a couple of years ago I in fact asked 7
'the staff to bring in an outside contractor, namely Arthur 8
Andersen was the one who ended being selected, to look at 9
this whole issue of performance indicators and how we might 10 use them more broadly in our regulatory process, as well as 11 to look at developing better and ultimately more 12 risk-informed performance indicators.
And so obviously by 13 the Commission's endorsement of the new reactor oversight 14 program by definition the Commission feels that performance 15 indicators have a role in our program.
They have the 16 advantage of putting things on a pretty objective footing 17 and they're fairly unforgiving.
At the same time, the 18 Commission recognizes that performance indicators alone are 19 not the whole story.
20 And therefore inspection will always be part of 21 what we do.
And that is why the risk-informed baseline 22 inspection program is also a key component both from the 23 point of view of validating the indicators that are used, 24 but also recognizing that the indicators don't tell you 25 everything.
And in the end as a regulator you've got to go l
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take a.look.
And so we still are going to go take a look 2
and going to be looking across,the spectrum in a 3
risk-informed way.
i 4
COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Chairman?
5 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Yes, please.
6 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
If I may add a couple of 7
comments here.
I mean, this is the third question that 8'
we've gotten this morning about the new assessment and 9
oversight process.
"his is very similar to a lot of 10 questions that I gow when I was out in the regions.
11 What this goes to is the fact that we have a 12 system that we have been very comfortable with for a long 13 time and that has given us a good measure of success, and we 14 are replacing it with a new system, one in which, I agree 15 with the Chairman, I think the Commission and the senior 16 staff in the Agency feel very comfortable moving toward.
1 17 We as part of our mantra urge our inspectors and 18 individuals in this Agency to question, and that's what is
'19 being done.
And I think it's healthy for our inspectors who 1
i 20 are at the reactors, those who are in the regions, as well 21-as individuals here in Rockville, to question this system.
22 The purpose of the pilot is to do a vigorous test 23
-to make sure that in the end we have something that is 24 better than what we are starting out with.
And as I said to 25 some other individuals previously, I personally believe that ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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what we end out with may in many ways be quite different 2
than what we started off with in the pilot.
But that's 3
healthy.
That's what we intend to do in the participation i
4 of all of our employees in making sure we get it right is 5
important.
's In the particular issue of the performance 7
indicators, one of the concerns that has been raised is 8
whether those performance indicators are sensitive enough, 9
whether we've gotten them tweaked quite right.
It very well 10 may be that that may not be the case.
I know in the meeting 11 that we had at the Commission level we talked about this.
12 That's why we're going into the pilot.
13 You know, I think the Commission indicated strong 14 support for the senior management, particularly Sam, for the 15 pilot, and we expect that when this pilot gets finished, 16
'whether it's six months or nine months down the road or 17 whatever the appropriate time period will ce, that we have a 18 program that we can all feel very comfortable with, and then 19 we can demonstrate not only to ourselves but also to the 1
20 public that it is a good indicator of determining the health 21 and safety at these plants.
22 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
- Please, j
23 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
Just to follow up on the 24 last comment that Commissioner Merrifield made.
I think one 1
25 of the strengths of the performance indicators is that ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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they're going to provide lots of data to members of the 2
public, and we should be stressing this.
There's a real 3C benefit in the new oversight program and the amount of 4
information it's, going to be sharing with the public on a timely basis.
r 6
'These indicators are going to be updated 7
quarterly.
They're going to be put on our web page fairly 8
'promptly upon receipt of the information, I believe.
And 9
there's going to be a lot of transparency.
People are going 10 to be able to see how all 103 operating reactors are 11 performing on these various indicators once the program is 12 fully up.
So there's a large public. communications benefit.
13 It isn't'a good, an excellent, a bad, or an 14 adequate or whatever that somebody is subjectively giving.
15
.These are fairly or very objective indicators as to 16 performance.
But also the new oversight program recognizes 17 the performance indicators don't-cover everything, and we've 18.
had a lot of discussion at the Commission meetings, and I'm 19 sure the staff has, about the areas where performance 20 indicators don't exist or will never exist or are under 21
. development, and the fact that the inspection program then 22 has to focus in those areas while also validating what the 23 indicators are saying to us.
24 So, as I say, from a public perspective, I think 25 the performance indicators and the way we're envisioning ANN RILEY &. ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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putting them up on our home page is going to be providing an 2
enormous amount of objective data that somebody else can 3
interpret.
.I mean, if we don't have the thresholds exactly 4
right'for white to green or green to yellow or whatever, 5
somebody else could say well, if I set the threshold i
6 differently, then this performance indicator would be here, 7
and I'm going to therefore write a letter to the Commission 8
demanding that they do something.
l 9
But the data is going to be there f^r us to j
)
10 interpret, for the public to interpret, for licensees to 11 interpret, and it's one of the real strengths of the new 12 program.
It's promptly going to be there.
There isn't 13 going to be delays, et cetera, that there were in the old l
14 process.
15 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
If I can go back to a comment 16 that Commissioner Merrifield made, but also referencing a 17 comment that I earlier made, I think sometimes we do
-18 ourselves a disservice when we -- and I'm saying that both
)
I 19 to staff who may have these concerns and to us as a i
20 Commission, in terms of how we talk about thir;s, and if we 21 lift one part out of what is really an integrated process, 22 then we end up risking giving a misimpression of what we're 23 going to do.
And it is very important that people keep in 24 mind that the new reactor oversight process has a number of 25 components, and the performance indicator part of it is very ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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important for all of the reasons that have been delineated 2
by my colleagues.
3 At the same time, we have never said that this 4
inspection is going to go away, and you heard each Member of t.
5 the Commission a little while ago indicate strong support 6
for.our regional programs, and a fundamental reason we have
.7 the regional programs relates to inspection.
And so people 8
should just keep that in mind, and I know it's difficult 9
when we move away from what we've all been comfortable with, i
10 even if we haven't been thinking it was the right thing to 11 do all the time,-but there's a certain comfo,rt that 12 develops.
But it's ironical because we had been talking i
l 13 about various changes that needed to be made in our reactor 4
14 oversight program, and we're making them.
15 So you have to be careful sometimes what you ask l
l 16 for.
You might end up getting it.
But the important point l
17 to make is that's why you do a pilot, and both of my I
18 colleagues here have made that point, and I've made that
.{
l 19 point.
That's why you do a pilot.
And-its not until we j
20 have the whole shakeout from that will any new program be 21-fully implemented, And I think if we all kind of put our 22-hearts and heads to it, we'll ensure that what we come out 23 with at.the end of the day will serve what our role and 24 mission really is.
25 Are there any more questions?
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Please.
Keep talking.
2 Go to the other microphone.
3 MR. POOL:
There's a question from Region IV.
Do 4
you feel that we,are making any progress regarding concerns 5
raised about preselection in the NRC workplace?
6 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Yes.
7
[ Laughter.]
8-No, this is something that, you know, I've had a 9
number of discussions with senior managers about, and 10
'particularly Mrs. Norry, who has this as part of her 11 responsibility what our overall career development process 12 is for people.
You know, we recently are restarting the 13 Senior Executive Service candidate program with looki.ng at 14 issues, and staff should avail themselves of opportunities
^
15 to even make latera1 moves to broadly learn the Agency,
- 16 because that kind of a broad experience is going to be 17 (enportant increasingly as we move forward with the kind of 3
18 agency we are becoming, 19 And so the short answer is that it is something 20 we're giving specific attention, and I believe the 21 statistics which you can get from Pat Norry will bear out 22-that in fact we have made and are continuing to make a lot 23 of progress in that area.
And we know that's a sensitive ~
l
-24 issue as people worry about career development 25-opportunities.
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Well, we'll do a couple more from the regions 2
here, and then we'll probably bring this to a close.
3 MS. ADAMS:
Chairman Jackson, this question's from
~4 Region I, and it regards administrative and management 5
support.
6 Given that we have contracted with Arthur Andersen 7
for review of certain administrative and support functions, 8
does the Commission have any specific expectations regarding 9
how the results of that study will be used?
10 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
No, because if you had it, O
11 there's no point in doing the study.
We could just mandate 12 what should happen.
But the fact that what has been 13 mandated is that the study be done, we will wait and see i
14 what the study tells us.
j 15 Okay.
One more.
Okay.
16 MR. POOL: 'This question is from Region IV.
17 Do you feel that we are making any progress 18 regarding concerns of sexual harassment in the NRC 19 workplace?
20 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
Yes.
21 Any other questions?
22 Okay.
Yes.
Don't say too much about that.
23 ~
Just kidding.
24 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
This is not on that.
I 25 think what we've discovered today is that we should let ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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everybody stay in their offices and send questions.
2 (Laughter.)
3 CHAIRMAN JACKSON:
That's right, but we know that 4
you all wanted to sit out here on the grass, and it is nice 5
out here.
6 I'm surprised that there are no questions from 7
here, so all of you are reasonably happy with everything, 8
and you understand where we're going.
9 Let me just thank you agair.
It's been a great 10 pleasure to have served with all of you, and I'll be talking 11 to you again.
We have a few more ceremonies.
But thank you 12 for coming out this' morning.
13 (Applause.)
14
[Whereupon, at 12:00 p.m.,
the meeting was 15 concluded.)
16 17 18 19 20 21 22-23 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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I CERTIFICATE This'is to. certify that'the attached description of a meeting of the U.S.' Nuclear Regulatory Commission entitled:
TITLE OF MEETING:
ALL EMPLOYEES MEETING A PUBLIC MEETING PLACE OF MEETING:
Rockville,. Maryland i
DATE OF MEETING:
Tuesday, June 15, 1999 4
-was held as herein appears, is a.true and accurate record of the meeting, and that this is the original transcript thereof taken stenographically by me, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting, company
~>
Transcriber: Martha Brazil Reporter:
Mark Mahonev I