ML20209H926
| ML20209H926 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 07/15/1999 |
| From: | NRC COMMISSION (OCM) |
| To: | |
| References | |
| REF-10CFR9.7 NUDOCS 9907210094 | |
| Download: ML20209H926 (79) | |
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UNITED? STATES OF AMERICA l
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION l
4
Title:
BRIEFING ON EXISTING EVENT RESPONSE PROCEDURES (INCLUDING FEDERAL l
RESPONSE PLAN AND COORDINATION l
OF-FEDERAL AGENCIES IN RESPONSE TO 1
TERRORIST ACTIVITIES)
PUBLIC MEETING l
Location:
Rockville, Maryland Date:
Thursday, July 15,1999 l
1 O(
Pages:
1 - 56 9907210094 990715
/c' PDR 10CFR
_j-i PT9.7 PDR i
ee,c.y{3 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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DISCLAIMER This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on July 15, 1999, in the Commission's office at One White Flint North, Rockville, Maryland.
The meeting was open to public attendance and observation.
This transcript has not been reviewed, corrected or edited, and it may contain inaccuracies.
The transcript is intended solely for general informational purposes.
As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, it is not part of the formal or informal record of decision of the matters discussed.
Expressions of opinion in this transcript do not necessarily reflect final determination or l
I beliefs.
No pleading or other paper may be filed with the 4
Commission in any proceeding as the result of, or addressed to, any statement or argument contained herein, except as the Commission may authorize.
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1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA T
2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3
4 BRIEFING ON l
5 EXISTING EVENT RESPONSE PROCEDURES 6
(INCLUDING FEDERAL RESPONSE PLAN AND COORDINATION 7
OF FEDERAL AGENCIES IN RESPONSE TO TERRORIST ACTIVITIES) 8 l
9 PUBLIC MEETING l
10 11 Nuclear Regulatory Commission 12 One White Flint North l
13 Rockville, Maryland i
l 14 Thursday, July 15, 1999 4
l 15 I
16 The Commission met in open session, pursuant to i
17 notice, at 10:00 a.m.,
Greta J. Dicus, Chairman, presiding.
18 l
19 COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:
20 GRETA J. DICUS, Chairman of the Commission 21 NILS J. DIAZ, Commissioner 22 EDWARD McGAFFIGAN, JR., Commissioner 23 JEFFREY S. MERRIFIELD, Commissioner l
l 24 25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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STAFF AND PRESENTERS SEATED AT THE COMMISSION TABLE:
2-ANNETTE L. VIETTI-COOK, Secretary of the Commission 3
KAREN D. CYR, General Counsel 4
FRANK MIRAGLIA, Deputy Executive Director for 5
Regulatory Programs 6
FRANK CONGEL, Director, Incident Response Operations 7-CARL PAPERIELLO, Director, Office of Nuclear Material 8-Safety and Safeguards 9
ELIZABETH Q. TEN EYCK, Director, Fuel Cycle Safety and 10 Safeguards, NMSS 11 l
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15 16 17 18 l
19 20 21
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PROCEEDINGS 2
[10:00 a.m.]
3 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Good morning, everyone.
I 4
welcome you on behalf of my fellow Commissioners.
Today we 5
will be briefed by the NRC staff on existing event response 6
procedures, including the Federal Response Plan and 7
coordination of federal agencies in response to terrorist 8
activities.
9 The Commission requested this presentation to R10 address issues that arose during the briefing by the Federal 11 Bureau of Investigation in March and to add;7as any insights 12 from the March San Onofre alert.
13 I would like to remind everyone present, and 14 particularly those making presentations today, that although 15 this is an open meeting and the material being presented is 16 unclassified, we must be very careful not to discuss any 17 information that is classified or of a sensitive nature.
18 I would appreciate your keeping this in mind when asking or 19 answering questions and during all of our discussions.
20 I should also like to add the slides that the 21 staff has prepared, you have quite a few acronyms in them.
l 22 It is understandable that we have a lot of acronyms in them, 23 but on behalf of Commissioner Merrific.1d as well as myself, 24 and I'm sure my fellow Commissioners, neither one may be 25 very familiar with what these acronyms mean, and although
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you spell them out once, as you go through the slides, 2
please don't use the acronym.
Please use what the term 3
actually is.
I think we know who the FBI is; I think we 4
know who FEMA'is, but some of the other ones I think we need 5
to be a little careful about doing it.
\\
6 I should also suggest for the benefit of any 7
stakeholders who are here outside the agency that perhaps in 8
the future if we have slides that have lots of acronyms, 9
perhaps at the back, if you would have a list of them, it 10 would be very helpful, particularly for members of the 11 public who may be here.
12 I understand that copies of the briefing material 13 are available at the entrances to the room.
14 Mr. Miraglia, if you would please introduce your 15 staff and proceed with the briefing.
Thank you.
16 MR. MIRAGLIA:
Thank you, Madam Chairman.
Good 17 morning, Commissioners.
The briefing today will be given by 18 Dr. Frank Congel, the Director of the Incident Response 19 Operations, and Ms. Elizabeth Ten Eyck, the Director of the 20 Division of Fuel Cycle Safety and Safeguards in the Office 21 of Nuclear Material Safety and Safeguards.
22 Also at the table today with me is Dr. Carl l
l 23 Paperiello, the Director of the Office of Nuclear Material 24 Safety and Safeguards.
25 Dr. Congel will discuss the NRC response I
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procedures and the Federal Response Plan, and Ms. Ten Eyck 2
will focus upon the intelligence and threat assessment 3
activities conducted in NMSS.
This briefing has been coordinated with the FEMA 4
5_
and the FBI,.and at this point I.would like to have 6
Dr. Congel'begin.
7 MR. CONGEL:
Thank you and good morning, Chairman 8
and Commissioners.
This morning I intend to give you an 9
overview of the activities that the staff has been focusing
{
l 10 on in the new areas of responding tc weapons of mass 11 destruction and other areas of terrorism.
12 As Mr. Miraglia stated, we do have with us today 13 representatives from the principal agencies with whom we 14 have been interacting.
From the FBI, we have Mr. Bernie 15 Bogdan.
He is sitting behind me, on my right.
From FEMA, 16 we have Ms. Lisa Weldon.
17 With that, I would like'to have the first slide, 18 please.
19
[ Slides shown.]
20 MR. CONGEL:
This briefing is going to be based on 21 all of the published directives and plans.
We are focusing 22 on a high enough level so we will avoid getting into some of 23 the details that may go into classified areas.
- Clearly, 24 whatever level of detail the Commission wants, we could 25 provide it at some other briefing.
Our intent here is to ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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stay:with the overview and to give the Commission and the 2
public a perspective of the activities that we are involved 3
with.
4 To that end, you will be hearing more as time goes 5
by on presidential decision directives, PDD Numbers 39 and 6:
62.
7 I'm going to give an overview of the Federal 8
Radiological Emergency Response Plan, the FRERP; some 9
features of the NRC-FBI memo of understanding, and some 10 other features of the Federal Response Plan, the bigger 11 umbrella plan, because within the past several months there 12 was a new version signed, that is, in April of 1999.
13 We will also do some preliminary discussion of a 14 soon-to-be-published FBI concept of operations, where we fit 15 in, what our perspective is on it, and some of the other 16 ongoing efforts within the FBI that have a direct bearing on 17 responsibilities that we have as an agency to protect the 18 public health and safety associated with our licensees.
19 The document and the plan under which we do most 20 of our responding, of course, is the Federal Radiological 21 Emergency Response Plan.
That is the one that obviously 22 people around the table with me have had experience in our 23 drills and exercises here at headquarters.
It is the one 24 that really serves as a basis for-most of our response.
25 It is signed by 17 agencies, including the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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principals here, like FEMA and the FBI, as well as others.
2 Most importantly, it designates and identifies 3
lead. federal agencies, the LFAs you will see referred to in 4
subsequent slides, that have principal responsibility for 5
conducting a federal response given an incident within their 6
area of purview.
Clearly we have responsibility for our 7
licensees along the same lines the Department of Energy has 8
responsibility for accidents that may occur at one of their 9
facilities; NASA, for example, with satellites that could 10-reenter the earth's atmosphere and cause a potential 11 problem.
12 It is also mentioned in the FRERP that the. FBI is 13 responsible for responses to.any malevolent events.
We have 14 had interactions in this MOU with the FBI for many years in 15 terms of coordinating with them given an event that would 16 involve any kind of criminal activity at our site along with 17 potential for radiological effects.
18 The oth'er intent that I have this morning is to 19 show how the new aspects associated with these PDDs build 20 out to our existing base.
We are not talking about a 21 radically new approach or procedures, but we are going to be 22 building and incorporating,the new needs as defined by the 23 PDDs.
24 I already said briefly that the Federal Response 25 Plan is the large umbrella plan that brings to bear'all JJM RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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federal capabilities to respond to a national level disaster 2
together in one plan.
The Federal Response Plan gets called 3
into play on the basis of a presidential declaration.
It 4
would be expected to bring to bear federal capabilities if 5
something happened, for example, at one of our facilities 6
that caused significant damage off site.
7 What happens in this case is that all of the 8
federal agencies that can bring to bear assistance would be 9
brought into this, and it's a much bigger picture than we 10 would get with just a Federal Radiological Emergency 11 Response Plan.
12 It does require a presidential declaration, and it 13 does involve the appointment of a federal official, the 14 Federal Coordinating Officer, or the FCO, who will have the 15 authority and responsibility to coordinate all of these 16 federal activities.
This would be done in parallel with the 17 efforts that have already started under the FRERP.
18 In fact, one of the principal things that occurred 19 with the revised Federal Response Plan that was signed in 20 April of this year is that there are paragraphs in the FRP 21 now to specifically address the smooth, seamless switching 22 from an FRERP response to an FRP response.
That wasn't in 23 the earlier version.
We had written agreements with other 24 federal agencies as to how that would happen, but now it is 25 truly recognized in the bigger picture.
d 9
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In addition, there was a terrorist annex added to 2
the FRP that, among other things, recognizes the FRERP lead 3
' federal agency concept as a source of radiological 4
.information when responding to a terrorist event that could 5
involve a nuclear device.
6 Presidential Decision Directives 39 and 62 are 7
both relatively recent publications that reflect on the new 8
world that we have around us now.
9 The first one, 39, was issued June 21, 1995.
It 10 is titled U.S. Policy on Counterterrorism.
It re-formed 11 earlier policies to deter, respond to, and combat terrorism.
12 It expanded the commitment to counter domestic terrorism, 13 especially when it comes to weapons of mass destruction and 14 the consequences associated with the use of those devices.
15 Weapons of mass destruction include those that could be 16 nuclear, biological or chemically based.
17 The FBI is designated to lead what we are going to 18 have as two terms that were introduced by PDD 39, and that 19 is the crisis management aspect of a response to such an 20 event.
21 Also in this document, FEMA was designated to be 22 the consequence manager.
23 These terms are important.
I will go into them a 24 little hit more as we go on.
It is key to how it fits into 25 the structure that existed prior to the publication of these R
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PDDs.
2 PDD 62 is a r,.ch more recent publication.
It was 3
May of last year and is entitled Protection Against 4
Unconventional Threats to the Homeland and Americans 5
Overseas.
It expands on PDD 39 and it details some new 6
systematic approaches to combating terrorism.
7 Among other things, it did establish a new 8
position on the National Security Council.
So it is a very 9
high level, very important factor in our nation's response 10 to such potential problems.
11 It also includes. addressing the potential problems 12 of cyber-terrorism.
13 Based on experiences to date with various 14 terrorist events, the publication of the PDDs required a 15 follow-up on the part of responsible or cognizant federal 16 agencies to develop plans and implement procedures.
17 The crisis management term that I mentioned just a 18 few moments ago is that part of the response that occurs 19 both before and during the event.
It addresses the 20 potential causes of the event, the identity, and the 21 motivation or capability of the perpetrators.
22 It is designed ideally to prevent such an act from 23 occurring, or if there is an act occurring, to respond to 24 it.
It includes the other bullet items that I have on the 25 slide.
I won't read the slide, but I think those are l
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important to make note of.
2 It is separate and distinct from the consequence 3
management.
I think the term is fairly self-explanatory, 4
but consequence management occurs during the event, and 5
certainly after it.
6 Addressing the effects and the effort to return 7
things to normal as soon as possible is utmost in the intent i
8 and the duties of the agencies responsible for that.
But 9
that effort is decreed by FEMA.
That is understandable in 10 terms of the charges that FEMA has had over the years with 11 their response capability to natural disasters.
12 As would be expected, these important documents 13 initiated a substantial federal effort to respond, a 14 substantial effort to put together the infrastructure so 15 that.the agencies with capabilities in these areas would be 16 in a position to carry out the responsibilities.
17 As I briefly mentioned already, at a very minimum 18 we would need to respond by revising our federal response 19 capabilities and in many cases expanding them.
As our 20 presentation unfolds, I will be giving more details of what 21 that entails for our agency here.
22 In particular, the FBI, being the most cognizant 23 agency in a good part of these PDDs, is serving as the lead 24 in producing the documents and concepts of operation in 25 order for them to carry out their duties.
We have people ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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working with the FBI so that our concepts of operations and 2
our plans and procedures will be integrated appropriately 3-with theirs.
4 Subsequently, and most likely within a few months, 5
. revisions to our internal programs will be initiated and 6
ultimately drilled.
We will address that near the end of 7
the presentation.
8 The principal document that the FBI is drafting 9
currently is the U.S. Government Interagency Domestic 10 Terrorism Concept of Operations.
It is presently under 11 development.
It includes input from all of the words and 12 requirements put down by the PDDs.
It integrates the 13 existing MOUs, what I call the existing infrastructure,
, 14 which is very important because we have a very effective 15 program in place right now.
16 The ultimate goal, just like our basic charter, is 17 the protection of public health and safety.
Of course the 18 aspect that goes along with law enforcement, namely, that 19 the criminal investigation process must be preserved, is 20 also included in this document.
21 As always, our agency will lead the federal 22 radiological response on anything that involves our 23 licensees.
We will provide advice and assistance, as.we 24 always do, and we will do our usual coordination.
I don't 25 want to dwell on that.
Everybody around this table is ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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intimately familiar with that.
1 2
In addition to this, in a circumstance like this 3
the FBI will be leading what we defined a little bit earlier 4
as the crisis management.
They are responsible for both the j
potential and the actual aspects of criminal activities.
5 6
They will be also responsible for resolving 7
conflicts concerning response priorities.
We would be 8
working with them in the distribution of resources.
9 One thing is very clear at this stage.
10 Radiological matters associated with our licensees will be j
11 under our purview.
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12 Near the end of the presentation we will have some J
13 general block diagrams that will talk about the i
14 organizational structure in which this will take place.
I 15 believe that will make it clear, but it is important also to I
16 note that the NRC and the FBI in this example would be l
l 17 responsible for coordinating communications to media, White 18 House, and so on.
19 As you know, sitting at the table with me is l
l 20 Ms. Liz Ten Eyck.
I will tell you what my group's 21 responsibilities are and then we will have Ms. Ten Eyck take 22 over.
23 Instant response operations responsibilities 1
24 include the development of NRC response policy.
We do the-25 coordination principally with the other agencies that assist ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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As you know, a substantial amount of time and effort is 2
spent with FEMA,.and, of course, secondarily with everyone 3
from EPA through DOE, and so on.
4 The implementation of the program is through our 5
operation center, and we do everything, from our exercise 6
there to the' training.
7 MS. TEN EYCK:
NMSS' responsibilities in this area 8
include threat policy, the Information Assessment Team and 9
the threat assessments that are done, and also the threat 10 advisories that are put out to our industry.
I plan to talk 11 about the last two topics-today.
12 The Information Assessment Team was formed in the 13 late 1970s after NRC experienced what probably could be 14 explained as an unorganized response to a threat event At 15 that time it.was decided that a single group within the 16 agency that is trained in threat assessment would be there 17 to provide a consistent agency response to threat 18 information.
19 It is composed of entities from the Nuclear 20 Material Safety and Safeguards office, who really at this 21 point chair the organization.
They coordinate with FBI 22 headquarters; they provide threat information regarding fuel 23 cycle. facilities, materials and transportation activities.
24 The Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation is a 25 member of this team, and they provide input regarding' power ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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reactor technology and expertise in that area.
2 The regions are responsible for coordinating with 3
the FBI field offices, the local law enforcement and the 4
licensee, and bring to the team a site-specific expertise of 5
dealing with threat assessment.
6 This group is available 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day on call 7
through the operations office.
8 In the area of threat assessment we have 9
information from a variety of sources.
Also, we have an 10 established assessment process.
If you move to the next 11 flow chart, I can walk very quickly through this activity.
12 As you can see on the left, we get input from i
13 various sources, whether it's the licensees, the FBI, local 14 law enforcement or the state.
Then it is coordinated l
15 through our emergency operations office through a conference 16 call.
17 The IAT members are brought to bear, depending on 18 the type of threat, If it's a power reactor threat, then 19 there would be representatives from NMSS, NRR, and the 20 particular region that would be involved in the threat.
21 We have a conference call.
We discuss the 22 information.
If the information is determined to be 23 non-credible, then appropriate notification is made to upper 24 management as appropriate.
If there is a specific threat 25 that is directed to a specific licensee, they also are ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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notified concurrent with the IAT assessment.
2 If it is determined to be credible, the IAT 3
conference call is expanded to include senior headquarters 4
management as well as regional management, the emergency 5
officer on duty at the time, and also the FBI or the 6
licensee.
In this expanded meeting the recommendations 7
would then be formulated to recommend to NRC management that 8
they activate the operations center and proceed with a' 9
formal response.
10 Going on to the next slide, NRC is not a member of 11
-the intelligence community although we have memorandums of 12 understanding and agreements with members of the l3 intelligence community to provide us information that is 14 related to threat that we would assess.
If you move to the 15 next slide, I can walk through that.
16 We would' receive the information from the 17 intelligence community.
It would be focused to the NMSS IAT 18 member, who then through the incident response center would 19 have a conference call established where there would be an 20 IAT assessment.
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21 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
What does HOO stand for?
22 MR. CONGEL:
Headquarters operations officers.
23 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Thank you.
24 MS. TEN EYCK:
I was trying to stay away from 25 acronyms and just talk about it as being the incident ANN RILEY & ASr'CIATES, LTD.
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1 response center.
2 They then establish the bridge where we have our 3
conference call, and we would make an assessment of the 4
threat information.
i l
5 If a determination is made that a threat advisory 6
needs to be issued, we would draft the threat advisory, 7
coordinate it up through the EDO and get his concurrence, 8
and then it would be disseminated to all of our licensees 9
through the established regional IAT function.
10 We would also coordinate with the Department of l
11 Energy or the FBI in the release of these advisories because 1
12 we view that anything that happens to our facilities'could 13 also possibly be directed to a DOE facility, and it is very 14 difficult sometimes for people to make a distinction on 15' whether it's an NRC facility or a DOE facility.
So we work 16 very closely with'any intelligence information concerning a i
17 threat with the Department of Energy and the FBI.
)
i 18 Then, with the EDO's concurrence, it would be l
19 disseminated, as I said earlier, to the licensees, and then 20 we would be in a monitoring stage both with the intelligence 21 community as it determines the extent and the potential j
1 22 consequences of the threat and then coordinate with the 23 licensees on whatever actions might have been recommended 24 that they take.
l 25 At this point I would like to turn it back to ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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Frank.
2 MR. CONGEL:
Thank you, Liz.
3 On the next slide, entitled Full Scale Activation 4
and Deployment, we have an example of what planning and 5
response we would go through prior to the PDD issuance.
I 6
put them in this context so that we can contrast what we are 7
working with in terms of upgrading in light of the PDDs.
8 I would also like to point out that this is an 9
example that would really require full deployment, which has 10 never happened with this agency.
The Three Mile Island 11 accident, of course, happened prior to our formal planning.
12 In the worst case scenario, what we would have is 13 what I would consider the middle column:
14 The NRC response that we drill and exercise 15 regularly that everyone around the table is familiar with, 16 and that is the activation of the Headquarters Op Center.
17 We coordinate right now with the FBI if it 18 involves anything with criminal activity.
19 Our regional site team arrives.
20 If it's a longer term accident and a real serious 21 case, then we develop with the augmented site team, which is 22 the part that addresses shift staffing and increased f
23 staffing.
24 We also have the formation of the joint operations l
l 25 center.
When I get to the next slide, we will deal with l
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that.
2 The FEMA response -- this is a graphic 3
illustration of the response -- is that they will name a 4
. senior official from one of their closest regional offices; 5
the regional op center of FEMA would be activated, and the 6
site team, with the FEMA responders and assistance, would 7
also join us in the joint operation center.
l 8
If it does involve a presidential declaration, 9
FEMA's activities would certainly be more than I gave them 10 on the description here, but for all purposes, regardless of 1
11 whether'it's a Federal Response Plan or a FRERP response, 12 this is about the same.
13 Up until very recently the FBI response was, as 14 indicated in the far left-hand column, that an FBI commandez 1
15 from their closest field office would be named.
16 Then, depending upon the details of the event and 17 the communications that would exist with the appropriate
'18 people in our agency, the FBI response would be, as it says 19 here, tailored to the event.
i 20 They would also be a participant in the joint 21 operations center.
22 To the far right our ovals indicate the rough time 23 frames associated with this.
The decision to activate and 24 go on is an hour, and formation of the joint ops center at 25 the other end of the scale is six to 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br />.
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Under the current concept of operations plan of 2
the FBI, as you can see from this slide, there is more 3
involvement, more structure associated with the interaction 4
of the FBI with other federal agencies given a full-scale 5
activation here.
6 NRC has a change now in terms of expectation of a 7
liaison to both the FBI's operations center and also to the 8
DEST.
We do have in the lower left-hand corner of the slide 9
that the DEST is the Domestic Emergency Support Team.
That 10 is a team that is formed by the FBI.
It includes members of 11 other federal agencies with expertise to bring to bear to 12 the particular circumstance involved.
Certainly a 13 radiological event would require people from the NRC to be a 14 member of the team.
15 That teams gets dispatched to the site or close to 16 the site to provide support.
17 While the FBI is going through the formation of 18 its structure to respond, it quickly sends one of its field 19 agents to the site followed in a short time, as indicated by 20 my far right-hand column, by a full team.
21 They also simultaneously or in parallel activate 22 their headquarters operations center and send a liaison to 23 the NRC here at NRC headquarters.
They activate, as I said, 24 the domestic emergency support team, establish a command 25 post at the site or close to it, and become a member with I
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1 the joint operations center.
2 This is really a very major event that would cause 3
this to happen.
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4 The. command post or the joint operations center, j
5 the terms that we are most familiar with here from our j
\\
l 6
drills, would have these four principal components.
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7 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Frank, as you go through this, 8
could you explain where these various operations centers are 9
so people are a little clearer on that.
10 MR. CONGEL:
We will start with the NRC 11 headquarters op center.
We know where that is.
12 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Actually, I think we know where 13 those are.
14 MR. CONGEL:
I was only going to point out that l
15 the FBI operations center here is the one at the Hoover 16 Building in downtown Washington.
The domestic emergency I
17 support team does go to the site.
18 The field office for the FBI response is one of l
19 about 200 that exist around the country.
The agent'would go 20 from that field office, the one that was closest, and go l,
21 directly to the joint operations center.
1 22 The full team of the FBI would also be collocated l
23 in the region where the event is taking place.
That is a 24 variable. number of people, depending upon the event and its 25 magnitude and the needs.
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CHAIRMAN DICUS:
I think it would be helpful to 2
point out right' now that the joint operations center is 3
going to be set up wherever the event is happening.
So 4
there is not a specified location; it's going.to be where 5
the event is.
6 MR. CONGEL:
Yes.
I'm sorry.
I was working my 7
way down.
8' COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
Do we have pre-chosen 9
locations for all of our reactors?.Would the notion be that 10-we would go to ours?
11 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
They may or not.
12 MR. CONGEL:
It depends on the size of the 13 response.- That's the key.
You are absolutely right.
We 14 have the emergency operations center, and there are places 15 for us: onsite emergency operations facility; offsite, the 16 parts where the state and the locals manage the event, there 17 are spaces for us, but as the Chairman pointed out, 18 depending on the magnitude of this, there could be a need 19 for other physical facilities.
The full FBI team alone 20 could be 30, 40, 50 people or more, and that is not 21 something that we practice for.
22 The important other point is the ultimate response l
l 23 is managed from as close as is reasonably possible to the I
24 site of the event.
l 25 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Is there a separate ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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location for the DEST, or are they at the FBI ops center?
2 MR. CONGEL:
DEST would be, it's my understanding, 3
the same place where the full team from the FBI would be.
l 4
COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
At the site?
l 5
MR. MIRAGLIA:
In the vicinity of.
1 6
MR. CONGEL:
In the' vicinity of the site.
7 The only point I want to make, and hopefully it's 8
clear, for events of lesser magnitude we have areas for our 9
staff to work and to interact with licensees, states, 10 locals.
Communication links are all established.
If an 11 event gets large enough so that we get large numbers of 1
l 12 people from other agencies, like the FBI as I am describing l
l 13 here, it very well may require other physical facilities for l
14 them.
But they all are located close to where the event is 15 taking place as opposed to operations out of their 16 respective headquarters or their regional facility.
17 MR. MIRAGLIA:
The key of the joint operations 18 center is to bring all of those folks, and that is the next 19 slide.
The joint operations center integrates the 20 activities.
21 MR. CONGEL:
The only other thing I was going to 22 say on this slide before we switch over is the FEMA regional 23 operations center is at the regional office, and FEMA has 24 offices in the ten what I would call standard federal 25 centers.
9 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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' The structure of the command post or the joint 2
operations center has the four principals as.I have in the 3
large rectangular box at the top.
4 What this is intended to portray is the direct 5
links between those in the joint operations center and the 6
groups that they directly manage, the interfaces and the 7
interactions or liaisons that occur across the board, and 8-the ultimate production of information for the public and 9
others through the joint information center.
10' All of the information going to the joint 11 information center has to be coordinated among the 12 principals that are in this command post or joint operations 13 center.
14 We can look down at the flow diagram here.
The 15 important thing is that the FBI does have the responsibility 16 for the oversight of the DEST, domestic emergency support 17.
team, tactical response, and the criminal investigation.
18 They also have a liaison and a communication link directly 19 with the facility security.
20 We, of course, have our usual links and 21 capabilities on site for safety assessment, rad monitoring 22 in conjunction with the Department of Energy, as well as the-23 consequence assessment.
24 The two principal areas of safety assessment and 25 rad consequence assessment we will feed in in determining ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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the tactical response of the FBI.
Hence the dotted lines l
2 between those boxes.
3 Of course we also are tied in with the facility
~
4 operations, and there is a link between facility security
\\
5 and' facility operations in both of the structures.
1 6
FEMA has the disaster field office.
It's a 7
simplistic thing, but-they are the ones that do all the 8
' coordinating and assisting of the state and locals in 9
determining how to handle people who are evacuated and in 10 temporary housing.
All the things that we see when there is 1
11 a natural disaster.
12 Very important, collocated with the joint op 13 center are representatives of.the state and local 14 government.
15 We talked briefly about what happens if we have a 16 very large, significant event.
The experience to date, and 17 we hope it continues to be the same, involves substantially 18 less effort on our part; much smaller issues to deal with.
19 We do get what we call small-scale events to the 20 tune of one to two a year.
Once we determine some kind of a 21 response is necessary, we name a monitoring team leader.
22 Most of t' e monitoring is done f rom our regional of fice.
23 There is a dispatching from the regional office of 24 several people, depending upon what the issue is.
There is 25 coordination -- Liz actually talked about part of this --
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early on by phone.
2
.The FBI has a commander dispatched from their 3
' field office, one of them that is close, and one to two
~
4' agents would also arrive on the scene.
5.
There is establishment of a joint operations 6
center or command post.,The federal response in dealing 7
with the incident is coordinated.through there.
8-Typically these events are settled fairly quickly.
9 I will give you some examples of recent experiences.
10 Over the past several years we have had stolen 11 sources, most recently in Florida, but also in North 12 Carolina and Montana, where we went into a monitoring mode.
13 We had close association with both the FBI as well as DOE.
14 In some of those examples, DOE in a couple of them provided 15 the aerial monitoring service in an attempt to find these 16-lost sources.
17 The point that I wanted to make here is that 18 everything worked very well and the agencies coordinated in 19 an appropriate way.
20 In the case where you specifically asked the staff 21 in your SRM about San Onofre, San Onofre had a suspected 22 bomb.
I can't remember what part of the building it was in, 23
.but in any case, we did initial coordination by phone.
An 24 FBI agent was dispatched to the site along with some NRC 25 personnel.
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Just like I said in the earlier flow diagram, the 2
FBI brought to bear resources from the local marine base to 3
determine whether the suspected item was a bomb or not.
It 4
turned out it wasn't.
Nevertheless, the coordination took 5
place and the problem was defused.
6 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
No pun intended.
7 MR. MIRAGLIA:
An unintended pun.
8
[ Laughter.]
9 MR. MIRAGLIA:
"It was not necessary to defuse the 10 problem" may be more accurate.
11 MR. CONGEL:
The situation was alleviated.
12 In any case, our experience to date has left us 13 with certain observations.
The FBI very actively pursues 14 its role.
It is certainly very obvious that when there is a 15' potential issue that involves criminal activity in our area 16 we get together and coordinate very well.
There is no need 17 in dealing with our~ staff nor the FBI staff to encourage 18 people along.
They just go out and do exactly what they 19 have to do.
20 All of the response has been in accordance with 21 our plans to date; also, the proposed concept of operations 22 that I outlined just a few moments ago with the earlier 23 slide.
24 We certainly have more work to do.
We continue 25 our interactions with the FBI and Liz' component is as well.
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We will be doing planning for joint training of both FBI 2
personnel-as well as ours.
To that end, both Liz' folks and 3
my folks have observed a large FBI exercise that was held in
~
4 Oak Ridge, Tennessee, several months-ago.
5 So we are well on our way to upgrading our plans 6
'and procedures to be in accordance with the presidential 7
decision directives.
We certainly have more work to do, and 8-you will be hearing more from us as time follows.
9 Last slide, please.
10 This is a slide that I think says what is obvious.
11 Any course of action that is necessary has these features to 12 it.
13 As I mentioned, we are developing our concept of 14 operations right now.
15 We are looking into revising our incident response 16 procedures.
We have some drafts on those.
I 17 We ultimately will be informing our licensees and 18 the states as well as interacting with the FBI field offices 19 to ensure that we are all reading and understand the same 20 bases.
21 You will be hearing from me about training of NRC 22 responders, and we will precede this by tabletops similar to 23 the one we had yesterday on Y2K just to air issues that need 24 to have more attention paid.
25 That concludes my presentation.
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CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Thank you very much.
l 2
Let me ask you a question about these tabletops l
3 and the exercises with the licensees, states and the FBI.
4 Have.these been specifically set out with a schedule, or are i
5 they being talked about?
l 6
MR. CONGEL:
They are being talked about.
l l
7 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Is there some definitive plan to 8
really see them through?
j 9
MR. MIRAGLIA:
There are some activities.
We just 10 put out an information notice in terms of FBI.
If you go 11 back to slide 17, for example, it indicates that there is a j
12 link in the FBI chain to facility security.
Our emergency l
13 plans have contingency planning, and we have local law 14 enforcement agreements.
The FBI has been and is visiting j
15 our licensees.
16 We put a notice out to say that they are looking 17 to see what is the interaction within the context of our l
18 plan with local law enforcement so they can understand that 19 and further develop their concepts of operations.
20 So this is an evolving kind of activity.
We are 21 aware that they have visited at least several licensees.
22 I'm not quite sure where they are, but those visits by the 23 FBI are under way so they can have a better understanding of 24 what is in place and how they want to interact with what is 25 in' place.
The idea is not to reinvent a lot of things but I
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to take advantage of the infrastructures that are in place 2
and how they would interact.
3-The sense that we have is that they are looking 4
for the primary interaction to understand what is in place, 5
how we interact with'the local law enforcement, and that 6
would be their point of entry into those kinds of 7J activities.
8 Is that a fair characterization, Liz?
9 MS. TEN EYCK:
Yes.
'It's part of the FBI's 10 nuclear site security program.
The FBI headquarters 11 notified their regional offices in a memo, I think in 12 January of this year, to_go out and interface with the 13 nuclear facilities that are in their areas and to develop
, - 14 contingency plans and work with the licensees and share this 15 information so that they ensure that the contingency plans 16 are integrated with both the site and the FBI and the 17 response organizations that would provide support.
18 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Chairman.
19 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Yes.
20 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
If it was your intention 21 by your question to encourage the staff to move forward 22 quickly on tabletop exercises and perhaps move into a live 23
' exercise with the Commission, I certainly would join you, if 24 that was your intention.
25 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
That was exactly my intention ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
I thought so.
I 2
strongly join ~you in that.
3.
CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Thank you.
4 Commissioner Diaz.
5 COMMISSIONER DIAZ:
Given the magnitude of 6
potential public health consequences, a nuclear power plant 7
would be at the very top of a potential public health issue.
8 How deep are the federal agencies' plans, especially the 9
FBI, in coordination with local authorities?
How deep do 10 they presently go in covering all possible aspects that can 11 be envisioned?
What is the extent of the coordination?
How 12 deep do they.go without going into anything that should not 13 be talked about here?
14 I sensed sometime ago there seemed to be some gaps i
15 developing.
How deep, thorough and complete are the plans 16 for local enforcement, the Coast Guard, whatever needs to be 17 brought in, and how does the FBI coordinate those with us?
18 MS. TEN EYCK:
Maybe I can address this.
19 Basically that is the FBI's responsibility at this point.
20 As Frank mentioned, as a result of the PDDs, they are taking 21 a much more concerted look at developing specific 22 contingency plans to respond to our types of facilities.
23 They have been charged to develop contingency plans and then 24-go and share what they have done with the nuclear facilities 25 in their areas and coordinate to ensure that we do have a ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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coordinated program.
2 The exercises that they talked about are what they 3
plan to have and they currently having with the Department 4
of Energy funding, because the department wanted to ensure 5
that they had this coordination with the FBI for all of 6
their facilities as soon as possible.
They are then sitting 7
down in a tabletop exercise and talking through what would 8
happen with the FBI and the site, the local law enforcement, 9
the local fire department, all the assets that may respond 10 to that type of an event.
11 We can't tell you at this point specifically the 12 degree of the contingency planning that has been done with 13 the FBI because they are doing their own part of it now.
We 14 already have our contingency plans in place with our sites.
15 The FBI is now developing their component.
When we get 16 together in one of these tabletop exercises, that is when we 17 will really see the degree that all of the planning comes 18 together.
19 COMMISSIONER DIAZ:
In other words, work is in 20 progress.
21 MS. TEN EYCK:
Yes.
22 COMMISSIONER DIAZ:
Is there a timetable that the 23 FBI is using for completion of the threat assessment and 24
. responses?
25 MS. TEN EYCK:
They have been tasked to do this ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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and they are just now planning it in their programs.
They 2
are starting out with the Department of Energy sites because 3
the Department of Energy volunteered to pay to have these 4
exercises conducted.
So they are focusing primarily now on 5
the Department of Energy facilities for these exercises, but 6
they have tasked all of their field offices to go out and to 7
interact and to develop contingency plans for the facilities 8
in their region and to interact with the licensees.
9 As Frank mentioned, some of that is ongoing now.
10 We got word the other day that they were at Wolf Creek in 11 the last week.
That schedule is each individual field 12 office is going out and doing their own.
So we can't tell 13 you exactly when it is going to be finished or the schedule 14 that they are working for.
They are doing it as fast as 1
15 they can, but they are resource limited also.
16 COMMISSIONER DIAZ:
That was the heart of my 17 question.
I know that it was being done for DOE.
I wanted 18 to know to what extent we are covering our areas of 19 responsibilities in a nuclear power plant.
What you are 20 telling me is that is not being resolved but is something 21 that we should get some information on.
22 MR. MIRAGLIA:
There are two phases, as I 23 understand the program, Commissioner.
Liz has had more 24 contact.
The first phase for them to develop the 25
-contingency plan is to understand what is in place at the ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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S-34 1-DOE facilities as well as our facilities.
Those are moving 2
in parallel.
They are collecting that information and 3
looking at what our response plans have and what those links
~
4' are.
That is a parallel kind of effort.
5 The drilling and the tabletops are more advanced 6
in the DOE aspects, although there is a phase where based 7
upon that experience the FBI will develop a phase II similar 8
kind of thing to perhaps do some tabletops with us.
That is 9
a little further down the pike.
10 COMMISSIONER DIAZ:
It is of interest to the 11 Commission to know when that is going to take place and how 12 it is going to happen.
I think that was the bottom line of 13 my question.
14 MR. MIRAGLIA:
We can explore that further.
15 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
That is a very good point.
16 COMMISSIONER DIAZ:
The second part -- and the FBI 17 might want to answer this -- there is obviously a lot of 18 interest in the fact that it appears that the terrorist 19 threat is escalating and that we are escalating our efforts 20 in meeting that threat.
I just heard the words " resource 21 constrained."
I just want to make sure that sometime we get 1
22 some response that indicates that the escalation of our 23 efforts is proportional or is meeting the potential I
24 escalation of the threat.
Is there some comment that might j
\\
25 help us to realize that this is taking place?
j i
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MR. BOGDAN:
I'm Bernie Bogdan, assigned to the 2
FBI headquarters weapons of mass destruction operations I
i l
3 unit.
j V
4 In answer to your question, Commissioner, I know l
5 you all have read about the large increase in the budget for 6
counterterrorism measures.
The FBI is also coordinating a 7
number of initiatives'in order to better coordinate the 8
federal government response to terrorism.
9 We recently established a National Domestic L
10 Preparedness Office in response to requests from state and 11 local first responders, the fire, police, emergency medical 12 people that might be first on the scene at these type of 13 events.
Their complaint was.that the federal government is 14 duplicating too many efforts; there is no single 15 coordinating body, and a myriad of other complaints.
So 16 this domestic preparedness office is a multi-agency entity, 17 so to speak.
It's housed at the FBI.
However, there are 18 other agencies that are represented as well as state and i
19 locals.
20 This is one initiative to try to get them 21 training, working on planning, and getting them information 22 as well, and equipment and things like that to help them to 23 respond to these type of incidents.
24 I don't know if I completely answered your 1
25 question or not.
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S-36 1-COMMISSIONER DIAZ:
I think you did.
We have an 2
area that we focus on.
I think it would serve us well to 3
know how good the plans are getting to be as time goes on.
4 In other words, we have a vested interest in a series of 5
parts of the threat, and we need to know what those 6
responses are.
Are they being well resource based?
7 MR. BOGDAN:
Commissioner, maybe to answer your 8
question more specifically, I believe Ms. Ten Eyck was 9
explaining the response plans that the FBI offices have in 10 place.
We have been required since probably the early 1990s 11 to have response plans in place with nuclear facilities.
12 What we have tried to do recently is provide our field 13 offices with a little bit more specific guidance about how 14 to go about doing that.
Every office has a basic crisis 15 response type plan.
16 Recent instructions that went out asked them to go 17 out and reestablish contacts with these facilities and 18 perhaps be a little bit more specific about differenc 19 capabilities and resources and things.
These plans'cannot 20 be all-encompassing to address every single scenario.
21 Basically, what we are trying to do is to have 22 each identify to the other what assets and capabilities are 23 available on site.
As the FBI arrives on scene to determine 24 what the situation is, itmaYbeassimpleasestablishing 25 points of contact, getting phone numbers with personnel.
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may seem pretty self-explanatory, but this type of 2
communication needs to happen, a basic familiarity, and that 3
can lead to joint training and exercises and things like 4
.that.
5 Ms. Ten Eyck was also addressing this nuclear site 6
security plan.
DOE basically came to us first and asked us 7
to help them out.
That was one reason uhy it was initiated 8
with the DOE facilities.
We are obviously willing to 9
exercise with anyone.
You come to us, and we will be glad 10 to assist you.
This may already be being done at some of 11 the sites.
I'm not all-knowing.
I haven't been aware of 12 every single thing that happens in each one of our field 13 offices, but these activities may be ongoing with rome of 14 the sites as we speak.
I'm not saying they are; I'm not 15 saying they aren't.
Because we haven't seen paper on it 16 doesn't mean a lot of this isn't happening.
17 COMMISSIONER DIAZ:
Thank you.
18 On slide 20 there is course of action:
Concept of 19 operations being developed; re. vise this; inform; conduct 20 training; conduct tabletops.
I think it will serve the 21 Commission well if we would put milestones and schedules on 22 this so we will understand the timetable, and if the staff 23 could also inform us how coordinated this is with the proper 24 authorities and to the extent our facilities are being 25 covered under those plans.
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MR. MIRAGLIA:.That is a fair comment, 2
Commissioner.
3 I might make one observation.
If we go back to 4
slide 15, playing off what Mr. Bogdan just said, there is an 5
infrastructure in place to respond to the emergency.
I 6
think, as Mr. Bogdan indicated, there are lots of response 7
activities out there, for various reasons.
Trying to get an 8'
understanding and integration and a better understanding of 9'
their more defined role and how we coordinate and link, I 10 think that is an important observation.
11 I think your comment is a fair one with respect to 12 a better milestone schedule.
Clearly, the discussion that 13 we have had thus.far in terms of having a better 14 understanding of what FBI's schedules and plans are and how 15 they. link together is a fair comment and it is something we 16 can do.
17 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Thank you.
18 Commissioner McGaffigan.
19 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
I have several 20 questions.
f 21 Our-exercises as we have conducted them thus far, 22 which have all been radiation, radiological emergency 23 exercises, are always the worst.
Frank Congel ensures they 24
'are the worst disaster in the history of the nation.
How 25 often do we get to a Stafford Act declaration.
My ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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recollection is it's very rare.
2 MR. CONGEL:
Certainly not with any power plant
)
3 accident.
4 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
In our exercises.
i 5
MR. CONGEL:
In our exercise we have.
I know we 6
have done it in one or two cases, because we have ended up i
7 having to explain to the participants what that means and 8
point out some aspects of what we should be doing with our 9
training.
I know we have gotten to it.
10 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
Most of the exercises 11 that I have gone through the state usually says "we've got 12 it under control."
13 My question.
If a radiological event is triggered 14 by a bomb, suspected bomb, terrorist attack, whatever, does 15 Stafford Act immediately kick in or not?
16 MR. CONGEL:
No.
17 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
So that is still a 18 question.
The fact of FBI involvement doesn't kick you into 19 Federal Response Plan; we could still be in Federal 20 Radiological Emergency Response Plan.
21 MR. CONGEL:
We could still be in FRERP.
22 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
FRP is only if the 23 Stafford Act is declared, as I understand it.
24 MR. CONGEL:
That's true.
Remember, the Federal 25 Response Plan is triggered on the basis of the state asking ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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the federal government for support because it is being 2
overwhelmed with the needs.
That is a step that has to take 3
place, and the President does it.
But the response 4
capability that we have with the three principals agencies, 5
ours as well as FBI and FEMA, we have authorization to 6
respond to whatever is needed at our facilities without any 7
declaration needed.
8 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
This whole structure 9
that you have described to us, as I understood it, was based 10 on the Federal Response Plan.
11 MR. CONGEL:
No.
12 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
The structure on page 13 17.
,14 MR. MIRAGLIA:
No.
The intent is that under the 15 emergency response plan these activities would take place 16 and then these things would be feeding right in.
17 MR. CONGEL:
I was hoping to make that clear.
I r
18 have oversimplified FEMA's boxes here.
It would expand l
l 19 under an FRP or a disaster declaration, but the response 20 here would take place or could take place under an FRERP.
21-CHAIRMAN DICUS:
I want to recognize the 22 representative from FEMA.
23 MS. WELDON:
Good morning, Commissioner.
I am 24 Lisa Weldon.
I work in the Response and Recovery 12 5 Directorate at FEMA and I was the author of the terrorism l
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incident annex that you are referring to.
2 Regarding your questions on the Stafford Act, the 3
Federal Response Plan can be activated prior to the 4
declaration being issued by the President.
In fact, if you 5
look at the Oklahoma City bombing, we were activated and 6
deploying assets within two hours.
The declaration itself 7
did not come uncil eight hours later.
Via modern 8
electronics we can be told when a situation is clearly 9
catastrophic and to start moving, and we do.
10 Regarding the nuances of the declaration process, 11 yes, typically for major disasters we do wait for the state 12 to request for major disaster declaration.
Under 501(b) the l
13 President can exercise his authority to send us in without 14 waiting for the governor's request, and that is exactly what 15 was done for Oklahoma City.
It was clear to all of us 16 watching CNN that it was bad and that we needed to start 17 doing things, and we did.
l 18 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
Our time is limited, so j
0 19 I am going just try to get on with the rest of the 20 questions.
21 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Thank you very much.
22 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
We have a difficult time 23 with communications, at least in some of the exercises I've l
24 been involved in, even with just being us.
If this joint 25 operation center is somewhere else aside from where we have t
4 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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the rest of our site team, the communications issues of us 2
trying to communicate with the people who are actually 3
trying.,to handle.the emergency at the site, the FBI trying
~
4 to coordinate with wherever its people are -- maybe they are 5
all going to be there -- FEMA people trying to coordinate 6
with wherever their people.are, and then the state and' 7
locals in several places, it strikes me at some point 8
tabletop may be the minimum, but there is a major set of 9
communications issues that we have worked out.
We know how 10 we would handle it.
You guys go through these exercises.
11 It might even be better to have our location, even though we 12.
can't absorb 40 FBI agents, setting up tent posts next. door 13 or something.
I don't know.
14 If you have a proliferation of these command posts 15 all trying to report into this center and the other 16 complication is -- in this chart the NRC DSO, I assume the 17 Chairman by this time has made the DSO -- it presumes the 18 Chairman has delega'ted to the site representatives --
19 MR. CONGEL:
- Yes, 20 MR. MIRAGLIA:
That's correct.
21 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
Is that the practice of 22 the other agencies?
Does everybody tend to make this person 23 supreme and have all the authorities under the emergency 24 laws, or will there be. lines back to headquarters of each of 25 these folks in addition?
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)
1 MR. CONGEL:
On-scene commanders have authority 2
similar to the authority we. vest in our director of site 3'
operations.
4 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
They'do?
5 MR. CONGEL:
Yets.
G COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
What about the 7
communications issue?
8 MR. MIRAGLIA:
I think what we were trying to show 9
is that there is that type of linkage, but if it's a real 10-
.large activity, it is going to be augmented.
We would 11 probably have someone on site and be a one-to-one link to 12 someone in the joint operations center, and I think the 13 other agencies would have that same kind of linkage.
14-COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
All these threat 15 exercises.we have gone through happen in.30 seconds; the 16-triggering _ event to the radiological consequences happens j
17~
immediately.
Hopefully there is some delay in the 18 radiological. consequences.
We may be having to make 19 decisions very promptly, and others'as well.
20 One of the thoughts I had here is, wnat if the-
)
21 local enforcement has to come in and help catch the bad guys 22 or-do whatever it is to mitigate them?
They are also in our 23 emergency plans helping to evacuate.
If the bad guys are 24 driving down the main _ highway and we are trying to get them, i
25 does that delay evacuation?
And who makes the tradeoff --
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I'm sure it's the FBI because they are now in charge -- as 2
to whether we delay evacuation in order to catch the bad 3
guys or whatever?
4 MR. CONGEL:
I wouldn't say that they make that 5
ultimate decision.
What is envisioned by the joint 4
6 operations center are the top people for each one of these 7
respective functions doing it together.
You have to weigh 8
the information.
9 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
What if this happens 10 before the joint operations center is set up?
11 MR. CONGEL:
That's another issue.
12 MR. MIRAGLIA:
In the context of the existing l3 emergency response plans, we would be taking the actions 14 necessary.
15 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
I think we need the 16 tabletop or other thought process exercises.
17 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
I think we are making that clear.
l 18 Commissioner Merrifield.
l l
19 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
I want to go back to 20 slide 16.
This goes somewhat to what Commissioner 21 McGaffigan was talking about.
We have got different 22 operation centers in different places with different people, l
{
23 and the slide doesn't make it very clear to me who is where 24 and where is where.
1 25 I am wondering if we might be able to get an 1
l l
f ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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additional piece of paper that would spell out the different 2
centers, where they are located, at what point they would be 3
initiated, and who the participants would be at those 4
centers just so it's clear, to clarify it for me.
l l
5 MR. CONGEL:
We certainly can provide that.
l 6
Looking at this slide now in light of the comments, we have i
1 7
used the boxes to indicate steps in the response as well as 8
perhaps infer locations.
That may have made this more l
9 complicated than it should have been.
What I wanted to 10 really convey, though, is that with enough time, without 11 things going really rapidly, where you have a chance to 12 organize a response, as indicated in the joint operations t
1 1
13 center, that is where the top level decisions will be made.
)
14 The support organizations go into each one of those top i
15' level decision maker's minds and the input comes from --
l 16 slide 17 -- their' existing substructure.
17 I certainly will prepare for you, Commissioner, a 18 different presentation of this.
19 MR. MIRAGLIA:
You'd like a time line as well.
20 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Part of this goes to the 1
21 very questions that Commissioner McGaffigan was asking.
l l
22 Some of the more significant events associated with 1
23 potential bad guys may happen very, very quickly, before any 24 of this stuff really gets together, and there are some 1
i 25 immediate decisions that may be made that could be critical 1
l l
I ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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as to how those plans are operating, I think getting an 2
understanding of that as well is important.
3 MR. CONGEL:
As a point of information, during the 4
establishment of this bigger organization there is the 5
communication by phone; there is our own internal rapid 6
response while our own site team is mustering and getting 7
ready to go to the site.
We have similar issues to deal 8
with, and we do deal with them in a progressive way.
9 What I apparently didn't spend enough time on here 10 is showing those intermediate phases, but on the far right 11 the time line was intended to give approximate frames of 12 reference on how things take place: the naming of the 13 commander; the activating of our ops center within about the 14 first hour.
While these other activations and notifications 15 are taking place, we have coordination by telephone of 16 decision makers.
17 It's a rough time period, two to six hours, 18 depending upon where the site is, how many people are going, 19 the time of day and night, and so on.
Until we get a 20 permanent structure in place to deal with it, it could be as H21 much as six to 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br />, but in that intermediate time we 22 could run it to very important decision points, and the 23 structure that we have there is the rapid fulfillment of our 24 positions here at headquarters, for example.
25 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Some of those decision ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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points will' create a potential conflict.
2 MR. CONGEL:
It certainly could.
3 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
A conflict between our 4
. efforts to protect health and safety through appropriate 1
5 operation of the plan and at the same time an intention of 6
the FBI not only to neutralize the bad guy, but also conduct l
l 7
appropriate criminal activities for securing evidence and l
8 things of that nature.
So there are potential conflicts l
9 here.
These are two very compelling but certainly 10 potentially competing priorities.
11 Do you have a comfort level with the discussion 12 that we have.had that the memorandum of agreement will 13 resolve those potential conflicts?
14 MR. CONGEL:
We have had to deal with that issue 15 in the past.
It's not something that is new.
We could use 16 as an example the Oklahoma City disaster.
The FBI had to 17 balance its crime scene investigation with the rescuing of
(
18-survivors as well as the recovery of the bodies.
It's not 1
19 something that is unknown, but the expectation is 'that the 20 decision will be made collegially by senior officials with
'21 responsibility for carrying out their duties.
That is l
22 indicated in our MOU right now.
23 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Not to joke here, but
~
24 it's the expectation of Congress that this Commission will l
25 also act collegially.
It hasn't always in the past; it 1
~
l ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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currently is now and in the recent past.
Expectations and 2
reality don't always necessarily coincide.
3 MR. MIRAGLIA:
In terms of the overall plan, it is 4
recognizing that there are roles for each of these agencies 5
to fulfill their responsibilities.
I think it has been 6
clear in all of the plans, regardless of what aspect of the 7
plan, whether we are under FRP or FRERP, in terms of the 8
lead.
The lead is for a coordinating function.
9 I think the planning activities recognize that 10 each office and each division and each federal agency has 11 responsibilities to fulfil.
I think there is recognition 12 that there are these kinds of conflicts and these balances 13 and tradeoffs, and that is why it is trying to force those 14-decision makers into a common place so they can consider and 15 make those kinds of judgements.
16 The lead for coordinating is to this agency with 17 the aspects of radiological health and safety, with respect 18 to our licensees.
I think the FBI would look to us; I think 19 FEMA would look to us in that kind of context.
That'has 20 certainly been our experience to date in terms of 21 observation of how we have operated in the past, and I think 22 what we are doing now is defining additional roles and 23 responsibilities to make sure that we can operate in that 24 kind of way.
25 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Going back to slide 8, ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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the last bullet, "NRC/ FBI will coordinate all information 2
provided to media, Congress and White House."
All of the 3
Commissioners have conducted exercises where we have people 4
call us, elected officials and others.
If we get a phone 5
call from a member of Congress, how are we supposed to 6
respond to that in our coordination role with the FBI?
7 MR. MIRAGLIA:
In terms of on the fly, once you 8
have that JCO there will be a joint public information 9
center at the site.
I think each of the agencies will 10 probably have to communicate with one another through those 11 headquarters links to make sure we are sharing information, 12 and we will have to provide responses as an event unfolos.
13 Once the site teams are established, that's where all the 14 information would come out in a coordinated way.
I 15 understand your concern.
16 MS. TEN EYCK:
I think a very important point to 17 mention here is that if it is a malevolent event, we have 18 the responsibility to coordinate with the FBI before we make 19 any public statements about it because of the potential 20 criminal involvement in this.
That is something that we 21 have always had to focus on in past exercises, although we 22 haven't had any in years, the fact that unlike what we 23
.normally do in responding to questions from the public and 24 coordinating with the different entities, in these types of 25 events we have to screen this type of information through 4
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1 the FBI before we can make statements regarding that, and 2
that is something different, something we don't normally do.
3 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
You're talking about press 4
releases, advisories, things of that nature.
What I think 5
the Commissioner's question went to, and he'll correct me, 1
6 I'm sure, if I don't have it right, is we-have our 7
exercises, which you well know.
8 Suddenly I'll get a call from a senator or a 9
governor,.and I've got to take that call.
I can't put those 10 people off.
I can maybe put them off five minutes or so, 11 but I have to take that call, because they want to talk to 12 the Chairman or they want to talk to whoever is leading the 13 executive team, or to a Commissioner if that has been 14 delegated to a Commissioner.
I think that is the heart of 15 the question.
How would that coordination be in that case?
16 MS. TEN EYCK:
I think that is something that we 17 need to work'out, because the FBI.has always stressed to us 18 that anything that goes out to the public -- maybe in the 19 case of the Congressman or something you would have to say, 20 we can only talk maybe to focus on the radiological concerns 21 and not anything that could potentially impact on the 22 investigation.
These are the types of things that have to 23 be worked out.
24 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
That's a very important 25 clarification.
In all honesty, I don't think you could.
In
}
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S-51 1
the CNN. age, this thing is going to be happening on CNN, and 2
we cannot sit there and say we're not going to tell you 3
whether there is a plume headed towards the town next door.
4 We're going to tell you whether there is a plume headed 5
towards the town next door.
We won't tell them whether 6
terrorists caused it.
7 MR. MIRAGLIA:
That's exactly the point.
The 8
Federal Radiological Emergency Response Plan would say we 9
would dialogue in a certain kind of wav 10 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
Our responsibility is to 11 make sure the health and safety is protected.
I don't think 12 us telling the folks what we are doing to deal with the 13 radiological emergency and providing them with the facts j
i 14 with regard to the radiological emergency is in any way 15 going to impede the FBI investigation, and if it does, in l
16 that case, if I were in charge, I would get the information l
1 17 out without having to make a coordinating call to the FBI 18-saying, is it okay to say whether there is a plume?
19 MS. TEN EYCK:
I think that's the importance of 20 having exercises.
We haven't had any type of an exercise, 21 and these are the types of issues that are worked out 22 through exercise, to learn where to draw the line and what 23 particular areas we can talk about independently, if.any.
)
i 24 COMMISSIONER DIAZ:
The priority that must be 25 given to public health and safety should be clear and c
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i S-52 1
unambiguous.
2
-MR. MIRAGLIA:
The point I was trying to make in 3
terms of the observation to date, I think the plans 4
recognize the role for public health and safety.
5 MR. CONGEL:
There is-only one other point I want 6
to make.
What I see here is a charter for me and my staff, 7
-and that is we need to go into the next level of exercise.
8 We go for a rapid response.
We primarily test the speed 9
with which we can muster an effective team.
During that 10 time we are very much in charge of everything.
Not only in 11 charge, but responsible for a lot.
12 As all of you know, when we do the turnover.to the 13 regional administrator on site, we basically then go into a 14 critique mode to see how we did up to that point.
15 Some of the points that you are making now are the 16 things that would actually be taking place in the 17 operational mode where we have our DSO running things for us 18 at the site.
The kinds of things, Commissioner, you said, 19 where there~is a plume perhaps going in the northeast 20 direction, that would be handled by our people on site.
21 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
It could happen before 22 we do the passover and the exercise, especially if it's the 23 result of a 30-second attack which sets a boa 6 off.
24 MR. CONGEL:
Right.
The timing aspect does indeed 25 present some other issues.
I think some of the points that ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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are being made here would be addressed going into the next 2
phase of' response.
There are two aspects: very fast timing; 3
the other part is what role do we play here at headquarters 4
when we do-the turnover to the site?
5 We still have communication links that we would 6
have to state, but it would be from a different, bigger 7
picture perspective _than prior to our people arriving on 8
site.
Let me take that as an assignment to deal with a 9
tabletop that does go to that level.
Obviously there are 10 aspects that we haven't discussed enough.
11 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Follow-up?
12 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
I agree with 13 Commissioner McGaffigan.
I think we do need to go to that 14 next level of detail and be ready for that.
If we get those 15 phone calls, we are going to have to provide the appropriate 16-information.
It's give it to me now or give it to me later.
17 If we obfuscate, that goes against our public charter.
I 18 certainly don't want to go up to Capitol Hill and try to 19 explain to a congressman why I couldn't give him a straight 20 answer when he asked me a straight question.
That would not 21 be appropriate.
22 I did have one last question.
We touched briefly 23 on the fact-that there is increased funding available for 24!
terrorist activities.
Obviously our agency is challenged 25 for money.
I am wondering to what extent you all ha've taken ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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a look to analyze if there may be some small piece of that 2
that might be appropriate for us to try to go after, either 3
to enhance some of our current capabilities or to build up 4
and relieve some burden where perhaps it is not S-appropriately set right now.
Have you taken a look at that?
6 MR. MIRAGLIA:
I don't think we have made a 7
crosscut within the budget exercise.
8 MS. TEN EYCK:
Not within our budget exercise, but 9
we'have tried to explore opportunities working through the 10 NSC to identify our needs and to get some of the money from 11 the big pot that NSC in involved in.
To date we have not 12 been successful.
They have been dealing with the big needs 13 of other agencies, high dollar needs, and ours has not kind 14 of' risen to the surface because they have been so small 15 compared to the needs of other agencies, but we are 16
. continuing to work with them.
They have a five-year plan 17 that we have contributed to, and we will continue to do 18 that.
It's just a question that we have not been successful 19 to date.
20 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
As they say, squeaky 21 wheels are those that get the grease.
We certainly have 22
' capabilities that could use enhancement.
Certainly there 23 are some things we could do better if we had increased 24 resources.
Perhaps if you provided the Chairman with the 25 appropriate information, the Chairman and the Commissioners ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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can be helpful.
2 MS. TEN EYCK:
We have a Commission paper that is 3
being staffed right now.
It is in the early phases of 4
concurrence.
It-will identify all of the new initiatives 5
through the PDDs and identify some activities that the staff 6
feels that they need to be able to support some of the 7
activities that are under way, like the FBI request that we 8
participate for coordination purposes on their NDPO, the 9
National Defense Preparedness Office.
We have something in 10 process where we are looking at some NRC needs, but not to 11 address all the issues that you have talked about.
12 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
I'm certain Congress 13 wants us to be fully prepared in our ability to respond to 14 terrorist events, and if there are funding areas where we 1
15' don't have the resources necessary to do that, then we need i
16 to be able to identify those and explain to Congress that we 17 need some assistance.
18 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Commissioner Diaz.
19 Commissioner McGaffigan.
20 COMMISSIONER McGAFFIGAN:
I would hope that it 21 could come out of the general fund appropriation.
22 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
I agree.
23 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
Definitely not from.our 24 liconnees.
25 Commissioner Merrifield, do you have anything ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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2 COMMISSIONER MERRIFIELD:
Thank you very much, 3
Chairman.
4 CHAIRMAN DICUS:
You are quite welcome.
5 On behalf of my fellow Commissioners, I would 6
certainly like to thank the NRC staff for the briefing today 7
and for your efforts going forward.
8 I also want to give very special thanks to the 9
representatives of the FBI and FEMA.
We appreciate your 10 taking time to be here.
Your input was very helpful to us.
11 Clearly we have got a few marching orders.
I 12 think you know in the going-forward activities we need some 13 schedules and time lines and begin to firm some things up.
14 It is rather clear that we need some varied exercises that 15-will begin to test these plans and test some of these 16 questions that you have heard surface today on some of the
~
17 unknowns.
It is somewhat complex and complicated 18 situations.
We need to have some idea of how we might deal 19 with these.
I believe also there was a request for some 20' additional functional charts for clarification.
21 Unless my colleagu'es have any further questions or 22 remarks, this meeting is now adjourned.
23
-[Whereupon at 11:25 a.m. the briefing was 24 concluded.)
25 ANN RILEY & ASSOCIATES, LTD.
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CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached description of a meeting of the U.S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission entitled:
TITLE OF MEETING:
BRIEFING ON EXISTING EVENT RESPONSE PROCEDURES (INCLUDING FEDERAL RESPONSE PLAN AND COORDINATION OF FEDERAL AGENCIES IN RESPONSE TO TERRORIST ACTIVITIES)
PUBLIC MEETING l
1 PLACE OF MEETING:
Rockville, Maryland i
i DATE OF MEETING:
Thursday, July 15, 1999 was held as herein appears, is a true and accurate record of I
1 the meeting, and that this is the original transcript thereof taken stenographically by me, thereafter reduced to i
typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company 1
i Transcriber: Mike Paulus Reporter:
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