ML20097J482
| ML20097J482 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | South Texas  |
| Issue date: | 11/06/1986 |
| From: | External (Affiliation Not Assigned) |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20097J406 | List: |
| References | |
| FOIA-93-642 NUDOCS 9504270027 | |
| Download: ML20097J482 (63) | |
Text
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SWORN STATEMENT j
O2-November 6, 1986 THE HILTON INN Lake Jackson, Texas 7:15 p.m.,
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TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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PROCEEDINGS 1
MR.DRISKILL:
For the record, this is an 2
'who's 3
interview o employed by the Bechtel Energy Corporation at South Texas 4
The location of this interview is Lake Jackson, 5
Project.
is November the 6th, 1986, and the time is 6
The date i
7 7:15 p.m.
i Present at this interview are Dan Carpenter and 8
and Terrence Reis of the NRC staff at South Texas Project, 9
The interview is being transcribed
/
10 myself, Don Driskill.
ould you 11 by a court reporter, Pat Tate.
please stand and raise your right hand.
12 Do you swear that the information you're about to f
13
\\
the whole truth and nothing but the 14 give is the truth, 15 truth, so help you God.
'I do.
16 17 18 Thereupon, 19 having been duly sworn, testified upon his' oath as follows:
20 EXAMINATION 21 22 By Mr. Driskell:
Nhat is your current job title?
23 0
My job title is superintendent.
24 A
In what area of construction or quality are you a 25 0
[./,
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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1 superintendent?
2 A
I'm now in surplus marketing.
3 Q
Would you give us a brief explanation of what 4
that is, please.
5 A
Surplus marketing is the -- a part of the Bechtel 6
Procurement that has begun to collect that which is deemed 7
as surplus on the project and is to be sold off in bid lots 8
to the highest bidder.
My job is to -- at this time is to 9
price those different and varied items and they are very 10 varied items, anything from clipboards to components.
11 Q
Okay.
How long have you been doing that?
12 A
Been doing that approximately a month.
13 0
How long have you been working for Bechtel, at 14 South Texas Project?
15 A
Five years and a few days.
16 Q
Have you been a superintendend all during this 17 period of time?
18 A
My job title is -- I'm a superintendent.
19 0
Okay.
20 A
on the job, I was initially lead mechanical l
21 superintendent for Unit One.
And then I was assigned to 22 the materials control / procurement group and was a part of 23 the permanent plant maintenance group for about three 24 years.
25 0
okay.
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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1 A
And then I went over into the materials laydown 2
where they assign different materials to the site and I 3
handled pipe supports and pipe spools for issuance.
And I 4
also worked in what they call the sort yard which separated 5
materials that came from the site which were to be j
6 identified back into the plant, back into the warehouse for 7
plant usage, or to go to the scrap yard.
I 8
0 Okay.
you 9
wrote a letter to Mr. Lando Zech, chairman of the Nuclear 10 Regulatory Commission.
Is that correct?
j 11 A
That's correct.
12 O
And I'll show you this copy of a letter that's 13 got a lot of penciled notes but that is the letter that you j
14 wrote --
15 A
Yes, sir.
16 0
-- or that's a telefax copy of a letter that you 17 wrote that I received.
18 The first paragraph of this letter reads, 19 "Several unsafe operational and maintenance installations 20 (by design) exist at Houston Power & Light Company's South 21 Texas Nuclear Power Plant.
I have identified a few of 22 these deficiencies to my employer Bechtel Energy 23 Corporation but the company now refuses to allow me to 24 identify anymore deficiencies that I have knowledge of."
25 would you elaborate on that for me, please?
b' TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177 jZ/
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A one of the assignments under the procurement, 2
after an immediate task of issuing pipe supports, I was
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3 subsequently asked to go over to the electrical group and 4
issue electrical material.
That lasted about four days and 5
I was reassigned again to Unit 1 to one of the many laydown 6
areas for issuance of material out of there.
j 7
And that didn't materialize in the immediate day 8
or two, so I was assigned to Unit 2 to rearrange some 9
piping on the outside of the Unit 2 for construction by 10 Ebasco to help realign the piping for better control.
i 11 0
This was in a laydown yard?
12 A
Yes, it was around the unit, itself.
l 13 0
I see.
Okay.
1 14 A
And that didn't work out.
1 15 Then within about a week because the Ebasco 16 supervision didn't like the Ebasco supervisor I had, so 17 they shuffled again and I was assigned to Unit 1 and 2 for 18 material surplus monitoring, which means that 19 procurement -- Bechtel was identifying that there was too i
20 much material, stock material, in the buildings and it 21 needed to get back to the warehouse so they could have a i
22 credibility, accountability and for more control.
23 That wasn't working out because the Ebasco l
24 management or supervision in the craft supervision or 25 managers didn't think that was a good idea for Bechtel to TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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1 have people over there.
And my chore was to list, identify 2
and make communication to the Bechtel supervision as well 3
as the Bechtel management of those units, which we did.
4 And that program, as I said, wasn't too well liked.
And I 5
was awaiting decision whether I was going to commence --
6 continue the surveillance and what level I would report 7
these findings, et cetera, et cetera.
8 0
What time frame roughly was this?
9 A
What time frame?
i 10 0
Yeah, roughly when was this.
11 A
That's about two and-a-half months ago, maybe.
12 About two and-a-half months ago.
And while the decision or 13 controversy was going on between Ebasco management and l
14 Bechtel procurement supervision management, being assigned t
15 in those buildings, I began'to just notice what was in 16 there.
17 I was, as you know, going all over the buildings 18 writing up what I found as being surplus.
And I couldn't 19 help but notice other configurations.
And I've been 20 involved in Bechtel piping, instrumentation, equipment, 21 extensivly throughout my career.
So it was just normal for 22 me to look.
I 23 MR. DRISKILL:
Let's go off the record here.
24 (Discussion off the record.)
25 MR. DRISKILL:
The time is 7:25, we have taken a 1
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I few brief minutes here.
We have been joined b who is a A
2 w
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3 friend and former associate of g_
4 that he has no objection to being present during 5
the course of the remainder of our interview, and that 6
subsequent to that would like to provide us with 7
some additional information relative to South Texas 8
Project.
If as no objection to 7
I welcome him to join us and we will continue 9
- presence, 10 with the interview.
Mr. Tate, would you please reread the 11 last statement we had.
12 (The requested material was read back by the 13 court reporter.)
14 0
(By Mr. Diskill) rior to or just 15 prior t oining us, you were -- we were 16 discussing what led to your discovery of these deficient 17 conditions, if you'll allow me to use that term, You were 18 approximately t'wo and-a-half months ago.
j 19 inventorying surplus property at the South Texas Project, 4
20 and stated =that you had identified some of these l
I 21 deficiencies.
Would you continue, please.
22 A
Yes.
As I looked around in the areas that I was, found that there were instrument panels and instruments 23 I
themselves mounted on the wall that one could not get to in 24 25 an operational mode or in a maintenance mode.
The
8 1
instrument panels were behind a tank in a room that's going 2
to be sealed off.
And in the same room, there are some 3
pumps, and the pumps are nested around the bottom of the 4
tank supports and one can't get to the pa'cking glans or to 5
the pump connections readily at all.
6 I have a concern that you could even maintain 7
them.
8 There are instruments on the tank, itself, that 9
could not be read and there are valves in that room that 10 are difficult, if not almost impossible, to get in a 11 service need.
12 In the same adjoining cell, there was another 13 pump and some piping in there, and one of the bypass valves 14 was on the back side and down under, which would be 15 difficult to operate.
16 Q
Okay.
Now, essentially, your concern with 17 respect to these valves and this instrumentation, if I 18 understand you correctly, is that it was inaccessible as 19 far as maintenance was concerned; is that not correct?
20 A
If you was going to cut off a valve, say you were 21 in an operational mode, you would have a difficult time-to 22 turn the valves off, and you.would have, in one case, in 23 one of the instruments, you couldn't even read it so you 24 was not able to read it operationally and you was not able 25 to operate the instrument manifolding.
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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1 Q
Do you know what -- could you give us the 2
location of those, of this particular room?
3 A
The room number was 053-C.
4 0
And this was in which unit?
5 A
Unit 1, mechanical auxiliary building.
6 Q
Do you know what system this instrumentation and F
7 valves were associated with?
8 A
I have some instrument numbers here, which is 9
flow indicator 4035 A and B.
We have a pipe -- I mean a 10 pressure indicator -- I have it marked as ZEA.
This is a 11 hot rad waste type room.
12 And we had some tripping hazards in the room due 13 to some piping configuration over the drain.
14 I noticed that the room threshhold was designed 15 up about 15 inches or so, which meant I pointed out to the 16 design lead engineer, Mr. Hurley, that in the case of a 17 stopped up drain, your pumps would be under water.
18 There was a hanger in the room that engineering 19 has not decided if it was to be used.
The drain valve 20 against the wall could not be operated.
It's a one-inch l
21 angle and you couldn't repair it.
1 22 The instrument I spoke of is a thermometer stuck 23 into the tank for --
24 Q
So was that basically --
25 A
That's basically the problems in those areas.
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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Q Okay.
And as you continued to perform your 2
inventory, you identified other areas where there were 3
similar deficiencies?
4 A
Yes.
I noticed that room in particular.
And at
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5 that point in time, I began to notice as I went about the r
6 different elevations and parts of the plant, and not 7
listing them.
The listing subsequently came from the trip j
8 later on that I'll explain with engineering.
But finding t
9 those items, I took the prerogative from company policy 10 prerogative to write Mr. Alden Yates, the president of 11 Bechtel group of companies
'n San Francisco.
12 O
Mr. Alden Yates?
13 A
Alden Yates.
A-1-d-e-n.
t 14 Q
Okay.
Prior to writing him a letter, did you 15 notify anyone on site --
i 16 A
No, sir.
17 Q
-- regarding your findings?
18 A
It took me a few days to decide what to do.
It 19 was very difficult for me to decide which way to go.
And I i
20 had had some problems with the deportment and conduct of my 21 manager, and I was -- had this problem that I had to work l
22 out in my mind and make a decision which way to go.
I felt 23 the hostility.
24 0
Who's this manager?
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25 A
Dave Surber, j
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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' low is that spelled?
5 2
A S-u-r-b-e-r.
3 0
And he is your supervisor?
4 A
He is the materials control manager.
5 0
Okay.
And this was in July, August, of this 6
year --
7 A
Yes, August.
i 8
0 That you --
l 9
A About August.
10 0
And you decided that rather than go to him 11 because of apparently a poor relationship with him, or perhaps it was your feelings that he was not receptive to 12 13 hearing about these deficiencies --
14 A
Correct.
15 0
Would you say that would be the reason?
16 A
That's correct.
17 0
-- you wrote the vice-president of Bechtel a 18 letter explaining these problems to him?
No, sir, I wrote the president of Bechtel Group 19 A
20 of companies.
a 21 0
And would that have been in That I wrote the 22 A
23 letter.
24 Q
Okay.
Did he respond to your letter?
l Mr. Yates responded with a letter dated October 25 A
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the 8th.
I received the letter on the 21st.
I was given 2
written notice of termination on the 15th.
l 3
0 October the 15th?
4 A
Yes, sir.
And the' letter that I received from 5
him had already been opened.
i 6
Q Did he send it to you at work?
j l
7 A
Sent it to me at work with a U.S.
postal stamp on 8
it.
9 0
Do you know who opened it?
i 10 A
No, sir.
I subsequently have written to the Post 11 Master General of the United States asking him to inquire 12 about it.
.1 13 0
And basicly what was the information that you 14 provided to Mr. Yates?
15 A
Information basics 11y was the same as I elected 16 to identify to Mr. Zech in those terms.
17 0
That you were :
being allowed to identify 18 deficiencies?
I didn't specify that I wasn't being allowed at j
19 A
20 that time.
At a later date I did.
I had heard that l
21 Mr. Yates was coming to the plant, which prompted me to 22 help make the decision in which way to discuss it with him, 23 who I've known Mr. Yates all those years, since 1962.
So I 24 felt like I could discuss it with him frankly.
And he's, upon receipt of my letter, he elected 25 TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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to contact through the vice-presidents and presidents for 2
them to contact me and for me to identify on the site to 3
Leo Davis, the project superintendent, manager, and which I 4
cooperated in doing.
And --
t 5
0 would this have been in October?
6 A
That was on the 6th, 9-6-86.
7 0
okay.
Let me -- allow me to go back.
I'll ask you again the name of the manager that you were working for 8
)
9 was?
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10 A
Ed Surber.
11 0
Surber?
12 A
I'm sorry, I say Ed, because I knew his dad, Ed, 13 and I worked with him overseas.
But it's Dave, I'm very Just have a mental block on those names.
14 sorry.
15 Q
That's all right.
He's materials manager?
16 A
Yes, sir.
17 O
And based on what you've said, I don't know for sure that I understood what the problem was between you and 16 19 Mr. Surber, and how far back that went.
But could you briefly tell me about that so that I understand what 20 rather than go to your 21 prompted you to write to Mr. Yates, 22 immediate supervisor about these problems?
23 A
Mr. Surber came on the job, replacing the And when he came there, he 24 previous materials supervisor.
came there to take control of the procurement inadequacies 25 1
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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1 that was identified to him by others.
I was not of But 2
specifically in any knowledge of what that scope was.
3 the crux of it is he came on extremely hard, demeaning, 4
demanding and most emphatically vulgar.
e 5
Q Roughly what time was this?
Was this this year 6
o r --
It was about the first of -- week or second week 7
A in August that these revelations began to come to a point, i
8 9
with the group in general and in specific terms with he
-10 and I.
11 0
So you had some problems with him, yourself?
We had a misunderstanding -- I went to him to try 12 A
i 13 to approach him on some of the ideas of the previous assignment that I was leaving, and he wasn't interested in 14 15 that.
He just wanted me to get on down in the third new j
16 assignment that he'd given me.
And so at that time, he
,l began to identify my age and told me that if Leo Davis was 17 18 over there, not to talk to him.
And Leo Davis is his 19 supervisor, he's the project site superintendent.
20 Q
For Bechtel?
f 21 A
Yes.
So the prerequisite of my not feeling like that I could talk to him was due to the emphaticness of his 22 23 hostility toward us, in general, and to me being a senior i
employee, didn't feel like that it was worth personal 24 confrontation and I didn't think it would get the job done, 25 t
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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Mr. Surber being in materials and me talking about a 2
technical, down-in-the-hole problem, without having to 3
confront that relationship.
4 Q
So okay.
So now I understand why you went to 5
Mr. Yates to begin with.
Eased on what you've.said, j
6 Mr. Yates instructed some of the people at the site to get' j
1 7
with you and find out what your problems were.
8 A
Yes.
9 Q
I assume that was sometime early October?
Is 10 tha: --
t 11 A
Yes.
12 Q
Okay.
Tell me what you did with those people 13 when they -- and who you talked to and what their efforts 14 were relative to either identifying these things, 15 correcting.these things, or whatever?
16 A
It was somewhere near,the 29th of-the month that 17
.I believe that Leo Davis called me over.
18 First of all,'I better mention that my immediate 19 supervisor, Steve Patterson, asked me to go with him up to 20 Mr. Dave Surber's office, he wanted to speak to me.
And at j
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21 that time, Mr. Surber became very expressionist, wanting to 22 know why, why, why did I write to Mr. Yates.
23 And I says -- well, I was somewhat reluctant to 24 get into it with him.
And so I told him it was about the 25 plant,.itself.
And then he was somewhat relieved that I TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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I had-not particularly named him in any action, which in 2
these proceedings I haven't, except in the reason why I j
3 went to Mr. Yates.
4 And I told him that it was technical, that it was 5
about the plant safety and I was very concerned and I felt 6
like that I had to take that action due to our f
7 relationship.
He was very. upset that I had went to 8
Mr. Yates.
9 And I then asked him if he would go with me or he i
10 could go with me, invited him to go with me over to see 11 Mr. Leo Davis.
And he accepted and went.
1 f
And we went over to Mr. Davis' office and he was j
12 13 why did I write Mr. Yates.
He said this from the top.
f 14 Nobody knew nothing, you know.
Why didn't you go to 15 through the channels, et cetera, et cetera.
16 And I pointed out that Mr. Surber and I had a problem with communication, and I would like to do that and j
17
.i 18 Mr. Yates -- and Mr. Davis asked me where we stor d about e
19 our relationship and I told him it was a Mexican standoff.
j And so then Mr. Yates -- Mr. Davis said he was 20 going to set.up a meeting with Jim Hurley to go with me and 21 t
go into the plant and look at these things, and I was to 22 23 point them out to him.
24 O'
Who is Jim Hurley?
25 A
Jim Hurley was the site design lead.
His -- that TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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is possibly not his correct title, but he is assistant to 2
the project design engineer, engineering manager.
3 0
So you and Mr. Hurley went around and you showed 4
him these things?
5 A
I met with Mr. Hurley and he had a Mr. Jim O' Hare 6
go with us.
7 0
who's Jim O' Hare?
8 A
Jim O' Hare is one of the principal lead
{
9 mechanical piping design supervisors.
There was another i
10 who went along as one who would assist them and also took 11 photographs, instant photographs.
12 0
So this was around the end of September or early 13 October?
l 14 A
That was 9-6-86, when Mr. Hurley, and Mr. O' Hare 15 and myself went into the area that I mentioned earlier in 16 the Unit One rad waste room 053-C.
17 0
So you showed him everything that you had 18 previously or that you had previously identified or most of 19 the things that you had identified or ---
20 A
No, sir.
21 0
Just that one area?
1 22 A
We took that room and I have -- what Mr. Hurley 23 suggested is that he and his team take notes and I would 24 take notes and we exchanged notes, and we did that.
i 25 So Pressing on out of the room and going down the TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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corridor, we began to look left and right.
And we began to 2
pick up and write deficiencies.
3 And we continued to do that until we said -- I've 4
got named here about 14 items, you know,' specific named 5
items.
Other items we probably pointed out and kind of 6
mutually says, "Well, we will toss that one, you know, we 7
can buy that one."
8 So we went through those items.
In one of the i
9 significant findings that presented to them which I had 10 knowledge of previously, I wanted to show them that, is 11 that we have in room 058-B, there is a large bore valve in 12 the entryway to that one cell.
It is a solenoid operated 13 valve, it has two solenoids which are, upon command, 14 turning the valve.
15 one could go into'the room and put his hand on it 16 and if the valve was actuated, you would have a crushed p
17 hand.
Upon maintenance or crawling in, you could put 18 something there, leave it there, and the valve would 19 malfunction.
20 Q
Would what?
21 A
Malfunction.
That example of malfunction was i
22 physically present when we went into a tank room and there 23 was all thread bolt nuts in the throat of that assembly and 24 they took a picture of that, because you have a -- you have 25 a platformed area where the solenoids are positioned and TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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the actuator is located.
i 2
Q What was the problem with the solenoids?
}
3
-A It was a problem with the exposed configuration, 4
where one could become injured or something could be laid j
there or fall there and prevent the valve from operating.
S 6
And I suggested they make a metal cover to --
j 7
Q okay, it was a safety problem with. respect to' t
8 personnel safety?
9 A
Yes-10 Q
And not technical problems; is that correct?
11 A
We continued around the corner.
1 12 Q
He was waiting for you to answer that question.
13 I asked:
It was a safety, a personnel safety problem and 14 not a technical problem that you had identified with 15 respect to that particular valve.
Is that correct?
16 A
It's a problem where, it is a real problem, where 17 something could be put there, left there, and then the 18 valve not operate.
19-Q I see.
If somebody left a wrench there or 20 something, it would --
21 A
Yes.
22 Q
-- it could cause the valve to hang up --
i i
23 A
Right.
24 Q
-- or not close properly or open properly?
25 A
Right.
Not fully going and making a specific TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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count, but there are approximately 50 of those valves like 2
that.
3 Q
Solenoid actuated valves?
4 A
Yes, same pattern throughout the plant.
5 0
In some large bore piping?
6 A
Yes.
r 7
Q System or systems?
t 8
A Many systems.
i 9
Q Okay.
10 A
one -- well, more than one I found over in the i
11 rad waste -- excuse me, over in the reactor containment t
12 building.
13 Q
I'm sorry, more than one?
14 A
Yes.
15 A
To generally continue the survey, we went and 16 found this problem with accessibility, there was a fire 17 main isolation valve that had a large bore hanger support 18 in a way that the valve could not be turned off so it was i
19 an obstruction from an operational standpoint.
20 0
This was a manually operated valve?
)
21 A
Yes.
A lot of the valves were totally i
J 22 inaccessible for operation.
23 There was a monorail where the electrical tray.
24 support intercepted the path of the monorail.
When one was 25 going to lift up a pump, you would hit the electrical TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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conduit supports.
2 MR. CARPENTER:
Excuse me, may I ask a question?
3 Were these -- was construction completed on these systems; 4
they were being turned over to start up, or where they 5
still in the construction phase?
5 THE WITNESS:
All that we looked at had been 7
completed.
Whether they were turned over or not, I was not 8
aware of their final status.
9 MR. CARPENTER:
I was asking this because the 10 requirements are for a walk down of the system by both 11 Bechtel, Ebasco and HL&P, and I would expect some of these 12 instances that you talk about to be picked up during that 13 phase.
14 I'm not saying, you know, that you shouldn't 15 correct them when you find them.
But I have a significant 16 technical problem if these things are turned over with e-17 if HL&P accepts custody of them and they're in this 18 condition.
Whereas if it still belongs to Bechtel, then, 19 you know, Bechtel has an opportunity to fix these things-20 any time up until turn over.
And I'm trying to get in my 21 mind straight, the condition of the system is at this time.
22 THE WITNESS:
I can't answer that.
23 MR. CARPENTER:
I have enough information to, you 24 know, I will check on these myself to see what we're 25 looking at.
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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Q
'(By Mr. Driskell)
Allow me to say something with 2
respect to what Dan is asking you about and that is you 3
said that yesterday, you told -- was it Mr. Davis? -- that 4
you were going to be interviewed tonight by NRC?
5 A
No, sir, I told the vice-president, Chuck 6
Halligan.
7 Q
chuck Halligan.
Is he located at STP7 8
A He is based in the Houston office.
5 9
Q So I'll ask you a question, would you have any 10 objection to showing Mr. Carpenter any of these things that I
11 we talk about tonight?
12 A
I'd be happy to.
13 Q
In the next few days or weeks, at your mutual 14 convenience, of course?
15 A
Yes.
I could go with him separately with the 16 approval of the site management, before Mr. Halligan, who 17 is he pointed it out to me, he will now go with me as of 18 last night after me asking him to.
19 And I don't know when that will be.
He's to tell I would be happy to go with Mr. Carpenter and Mr.
20 me.
21 Reis.
The amount of work that it would take to reconfigure 22 valve locations for operability and serviceability is 23 extensive, one thing that I notice that there are several 24 valves, it's a "Y" pattern valve, and the handle is pointed 25 toward the opposite direction of approach and/or in some I
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cases, near the wall.
I'm concerned that one can't back i
2 hand turn of f or on and/or, upon need, repair, clean.
3 Q
The reason I asked about your showing some of 4
these things to Mr. Carpenter was so that perhaps we could 5
save some time here at least with respect to identifying 6
the locations and a lot of that sort of thing.
7 A
I would give the courtesy of my company to get I
8 their permission.
9 Q
I understand.
I appreciate that.
I don't think 10 there will be any problem.
11 MR. CARPENTER:
There will be no problem.
You 12 have access to me, you know, unfettered.
Your company 13 cannot in any way inhibit or restrict you from coming to
\\
14 talk to the NRC at the site.
15 THE WITNESS:
I appreciate your interest.
16 Q
(By Mr. Driskill)
And on October the 6th during your survey with Mr. Hurley and Mr. O' Hare, you showed them 17 18 these various things?
19 A
Yes, sir.
We left out of the rad waste building 20 after the noon whistle had blown.
So we went back to 21 Mr. Hurley's office and he excused his self and told us 22 earlier that he had to go to Houston on another commitment.
And at that time, he assigned, told Mr. O' Hare 23 24 and the other engineer to go on back to what they was 25 doing.
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So they left.
And I went back down into the 2
plant, taking the -- picking up on the agenda or what I was 3
supposed as how we was going to do it in the future, began 4
to look around further.
And commenced to take some notes.
5 I made some observations in some areas that I was t
6 going to go back and get later.
But I continued to make 7
notes.
8 I want to go back up.
I believe Mr. Hurley 9
didn't show up the next day.
And I was there to go with i
10 Mr. Hurley and he didn't show.
So I went back out into the 11 plant and continued to write up other things which I'll be 12 happy'to show Mr. Carpenter and Mr. Reis.
13 And on the third day, I believe, I got word from
)
14 the secretary from Mr. Davis that Mr. Zacharia wanted to 15 meet with me.
16 0
Who is Mr. Zacharia?
17 A
Mr. Zacharia is the Bechtel project manager over 18 all the project.
19 Q
At the South Texas Project?
20 A
He has an office there.
I believe he's basically 21 in Houston.
He's the overall manager; Mr. Davis is the 22 site manager.
23 0
I see.
Okay.
And you said Mr. Zacharia -- what 24 was it you said about Mr. Zacharia?
25 A
He asked to see me.
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1 Q
okay.
And this would would have been somewhere in the neighborhood of October the 10th or 12th, somewhere 2
3 in there?
4
.A On the 9th -- 10th and 9th, '86 I met with j
5 Mr. Zacharia at 3:00 p.m.
At that time, he saw me briefly 6
alone, asking why didn't I go through him.
7 Q
Rather than go to Mr. Yates?
And so I explained to him why I did it.
He 8
A Yes.
9 understood, he heard it, he heard why.
We discussed, after.
we got passed the the why I did what I did,-he asked me to l
10 briefly generally, much like I did in the letters, what I 11 12 found.
Then he elected to have Mr. Hurley come in.
He 13 had told me Mr. Hurley was on tap, Mr. Hurley came in.
He 14 brought with him 30 photographs that we had taken in our l
15 16 trip.
Approximately 30, it could be up or down.
Mr. zacharia was shown the photographs by 17 Mr. Hurley and Mr. Hurley was pointing out this deficiency 18 i
19 and that deficiency.
And occasionally I would add, "While j
20 we're on it, let's talk about that one."
And we went 21 through many of the photographs.
And Mr. zacharia asked 22 them if they were deficiencies.
And he said yes.
l And Mr. Zacharia said "We're going to have to
{
23 l
report this somehow, you know, maybe SAFETEAM or some other 24 25 way."
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And so we went through some discussion, basically ~
{
2 with the photographic tour of our findings.
And at that I
3 point, it was getting time for me to leave.
And I think we l
1 t
4 just, if you ever ask Mr. Zacharia whether we went through 5
it or not, I-think we kind of concluded it anyway.
6-And Mr. Zacharia said he would get back to me, l
7 that he had to go -- Mr. Yates was approaching that next l
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8 day or very soon after, so he had to go somewhere.
And so 9
the next day, waiting for more instructions, I went back
]
10 into the units and continued to make lists.
And I made 11 lists until I got a call from our -- Mr. Steve Patterson 12 told me that I was supposed to report to Mr. Davis.
And I 13 went to Mr. Barlow first, John Barlow, and Barlow who is 14 one of our supervisors over Mr. Patterson, went with me, 15 with Mr. Davis.
)
16 Q
What basically did you meet with Mr. Davis about?
17 A
I'm looking for the date.
Mr. Davis told me that 18 I had -- had -- asked me if I had an assignment and I says 19 yes.
20 I'm looking in my notes here to see if that was 1
21 the time when Mr. Davis addressed'me and said that he knew 22 of Mr. Hurley's findings and that he's going to -- he in 23 turn -- had turned that over to HL&P management.
And 24 Mr. Jordan of the HL&P project QA manager was present.
25.
Q Tom Jordan?
i 1
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A But-in essence, he told me'to go back down'into 2
the surplus marketing and price clipboards and whatever I 3
was doing.
And that --
t 4
Q And discontinue identifying deficiencies.
5 A
Yes.
I want to recall back, if I may, please,
{
6' when I was talking to Mr. Zacharia, if he would go with me t
7 down in the-field and look at those items.
And he.said --
8 this was the time when he said, "Well, I've got to go, you 9
know, I can't do it."
10 I also recall back, at that meeting, that I 11 mentioned to Mr. Zacharia, that in the interim time that 12 I'd be waiting and making my notes, I went over to Unit 2 I
13 and they were installing the same deficiencies that were in l
I 14 one.
I says, "They're putting it in now.
We need to do 15 something about it."
i 16 And he told me he was aware of that; emphatically 17 that he was aware of that.
~
18 But I'm still concerned that while we're -- in t
19 point, the main fire valve that had the obstruction, the
)
20 obstruction is already in; Unit 2, the valve isn't in but, 21 by. design, it will be.
The instrumentation panels in the 22 room that.we mentioned firstly, they're there.
The tank is
.l 23 there.
24 Q
They just mirror the same room in -- or the 25 configuration of the same room in Unit 17 i
)
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A It's plan A, Unit 1 and Unit 2.
2 Q
Mirror image?
i 3
A Yeah.
So I wanted to make that point, that 4
I'm -- I wasn't only concerned then, I'm concerned now, and i
5 feeling like I was dismissed from participating by l
6 Mr. Davis turning it over to the client directly, relieving 7
me of the responsibility.
I worked as directed, I went 8
back to my surplus marketing chores.
l 9
And that's where I've been.
Subsequent to that, 10 Mr. Stevenson's supervisor got a hold of him.
l
?
11 Q
Who is Mr. Stevenson?
_j t
12 A
That's -- Patterson, pardon me.
Mr. Steve 13 Patterson.
F 14 Q
We never did find out what Steve Patterson.
Who i
t 15 he is and what his job is?
16 A
He is my immediate supervisor, and the supervisor i
17 of the surplus marketing function.
t 18 Q
He's your immediate supervisor?
19 A
Yes.
20 Q
And his immediate supervisor is Surber?
21 A
Is John Barlow.
l 22 Q
Okay.
23 A
The fellow that I went to Mr. Davis with to get j
24 the word return and I was no longer to be in the field.
j 25 And at this point I want to mention that in the presence of f
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177 l
6 29
+
1 Mr. Jordan, that Mr. Davis stated he didn't want me 2
wandering around in the plant.
And I says to him I was not 3
wandering and he says, "Well, for you I'll rephrase the 4
statement."
He didn't want me in there.
5 MR. REIS:
What date was that?
6 THE WITNESS:
10-13-86.
7 0
(By Mr. Driskill)
And the impression you got was 8
that Mr. Davis was not interested in your identifying any 9
further deficiencies and was turning the matter, at least 10 the deficiencies you had identified, over to HL&P for their 11 own disposition?
the My notes identify that Tom Jordan was there, 12 A
13 OA manager; my job was not to review the job.
14 0
Not to review --
15 A
Yes.
-- what had been done or what construction had 16 0
17 been done?
18 A
That's not my job, Mr. Davis indicated to me.
19 At this point of, before I lose that point, when I was talking to Mr. Chuck Halligan, the vice-president of 20 21 Bechtel in the Houston office, he told me over the phone 22 that my job was not to inspect the job.
I'm not the I did not get to complete the walk, and 23 inspector.
24 Mr. Davis turned the findings over to HL&P, and Mr. Hurley 25 is issuing some DCARs.
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Mr. Leo Davis says that I was not going to be a 2
part of an ad hoc committee.
And then the wandering 3
statement.
He mentioned that two other groups were already 4
doing what I'm doing and it shod 1d be done.
5 MR. REIS:
may I interrupt.
Did I 6
miss something when I got up befbre?
Did we define DCAR, i
7 that's design change requests?
8 MR. DRISKILL:
It's some sort of corrective 9
action report?
10 THE WITNESS:
It's an official Bechtel l
11 engineering document; I might have that terminology.
12 DCAR stands for design change f
)
13 authorization request.
14 THE WITNESS:
Thank you.
15 MR. DRISKILL:
Tha'nk you.
fh 16 You're welcome.
17 0
(By Mr. Driskill)
So you were told that Hurley 18 was preparing these DCARs with -- for the items you had 19 identified to him or you and he had identified during your 20 walk down?
21 A
Mr. Hurley and O' Hare is issuing DCARs, period.
22 And then the wandering statement..Ad hoc statement.
And 23 that the decision and the opinion was the engineering 24 prerogative to identify areas, and Leo identified about 25 plant enhancement and licensing, change the valves and the l
/
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flow elements, you know, as engineering's design.
l 2
I want to go back to a statement that while we 3
were in.the room that we started with, I was talking to 4
Mr. O' Hare asking, "Why do we have this?"
5 And he says, "Well, we asked the client, HL&P, if' 6
they wanted a configuration check or a study made for e
operability, maintenanceability, et cetera, et cetera," and 7
8 his answer was that they says, "Well, just put it 9
together," they didn't want to pay for that type of t
10 involvement.
And I heard no more out of Mr.
O' Hare in that 9
11 matter.
12 Q
But basically what he was telling you was that 13 HL&P had declined a Bechtel offer to perform a survey or an i
14 inventory of these various valves and instrumentation and
)
15 whatever else may be associated with that with regard to 16 its maintenance capabilities and that sort of thing; they
)
17 declined to have that done?
That's what he was saying?
{
18 A
Yes.
I want to go back to a time when Jin Hurley 19 and I were together, and I was asking him how did we get 20 the plant like that.
And he told me it was bad 21 supervision.
I want to correct that.
He said it was poor 22 engineering and poor supervision.
Mr. Hurley explained to 23 me that they would possibly begin after operations an enhancement program which would catch most of those things 24 25 that I said were important.
But in the engineering TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177 i
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judgment.and/or how they were going to use the plant, do it j
l 2
much later.
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3 Q
In other words,.they wanted to get the plant in 4
operation before they start going back and fixing these l
l 5
things?
6 A
An ongoing enhancement program could be began 7
after the plant is running.
8 Q
That's what he said?
9 A
That's what he said.
f 10 Q
Hurley?
11 A
I want to say that Jim Hurley told me personally 12 that he told O' Hare to shut up.
When he was telling me 13 about these, what HL&P had said, that they were not 14 interested in a maintenance of plant and how O' Hare had 15 tried to produce reviewed and redesigned drawings versus 16 just rolling over the Brown & Root drawings over.
17 Q
Was O' Hare involved in the acceptance of drawings 18 formerly prepared by Brown & Root and those --
i 19 A
Yes.
l 20 Q
-- and those being accepted by Bechtel?
21 A
My knowledge of Mr. O' Hare's responsibility when 22 I was in Unit 1 and responsible to go to Houston, i
Mr. O' Hare had significant responsibility in plant design 23 24 in the configuration and reconfiguration of the plant 25 piping equipment.
I was with him when he explained some of i
l TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177 1
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that criteria at the model in Houston, when I first met j
2 him.
3 0
okay.
Mr. Hurley told him to shut up; was that 4
what he said?
I 5
A Mr. Hurley told me he told O' Hare to shut up.
6 But Mr. O' Hare, as I am now reiterating, that he was I
7 telling me this and he abruptly quit and I didn't see that.
8 I did not hear Mr. Hurley say that.
9 0
okay.
We go -- I think we had progressed to 10 somewhere in the neighborhood of October the 13th, your 11 meeting with Leo Davis, Tom Jordan and those people.
And 12 it was your impression that Mr. Davis was turning these 13 deficiencies you had identified over to HL&P for i
f 14 resolution.
15 A
He told me that in the presence of Mr. Jordan, j
l 16 yes.
17 Q
And then he told you he wanted you to go back to 18 this --
r 19 A
Surplus market.
20 0
-- surplus property marketing project that you 4
21 had -- and discontinue your identification of deficiencies, 22 or problem areas.
What occurred next in the chain of 23 events?
I guess you -- I believe you said that on October 24 the 15th, you received a notification from Bechtel that you 25 would be terminated in 30 days?
i TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
I 34 1
A Yes.
2 O
How was that delivered to you?
3 A
Mr. Steve Patterson, my immediate supervisor, 4
told me that I was to go with him up to see Mr. Surber.
5 And when I got to Mr. Surber's office, Mr. John Barlow was 6
there.
7 MR. DRISKILL:
Off the record.
8 (Discussion off the record.)
9 MR. DRISKILL:
Okay, we're back on the the 10 record.
We have just taken just a few brief minutes here 11 for refreshment and to allow to find some notes 1
12 that he wanted to use to answer the last question, which 13 was -- or related to the October the 15th, 1986 meeting 14 with Mr. Strber, where he was notified that he would be 15 terminated.
16 A
(Continued)
At 12:33 p.m., when Mr. Patterson 17 and I got to Mr. Surber's office, Mr. Patterson excused l
18 himself and Mr. Barlow was sitting in front and Mr. Surber 19 was at the head of his table complex.
And he began to hand 20 me a piece of paper.
And simultaneously or before or after, he stated 21 l
22 that I needed to go to the SAFETEAM, you know, whether I 23 had the paper in hand or not.
And I read the notice of 24 termination.
And I read it and read it it two or three f
25 times and didn't say anything; they asked me if I wanted to TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
I 35 4
1 say anything.
And I don't recall saying anything.
2 And so I just got up and I went over to see 3
Mr. Davis, and asked him, you know, "Why are you laying off 4
me, you know?
I've been with the company a long time, you 5
know."
zipped through my history, and that I had no previous warning in any way that I was being terminated.
6 7
And Bechtel policy, if one is deficient through performance evaluations, of which all of mine are exceeds 8
9 or overwhelmingly meets requirements, I have not been 10 called in on deficiencies on deportment, absenteeism; I had 11 no previous clue.
I was in a position and I was 12 functioning.
One can check my supervisors.
And Mr. Davis asked Mr. Surber and Mr. Barlow to come over, 13 because we were in a little word game of when he handed me 14 And so 15 the paper and when he said to go to the SAFETEAM.
i 16 it kind of went into a nebulous where I then began to 17 dissertate, say for myself, I'm a good employee.
18 0
May I ask you interrupt just a moment.
Were they telling you that you were terminated that day?
19 20 A
Yes, sir.
I got the notice.
21 0
They weren't telling you that --
22 MR. REIS:
You didn't have 30 days notice?
23 0
(By Mr. Driskill)
They weren't telling you you 24 had 30 day's notices?
25 A
It's in the letter.
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O oh, okay, the letter says you would be terminated 2
in 30 days?
3 A
Yes.
That's Bechtel policy.
4 0
Okay.
You went to Mr. Davis' office and asked 1
5 him why you were being terminated, explained to him --
6 A
Yes.
7 0
-- that your past evaluations had always, for the past 25 years or 26 years or whatever, had exceeded the 8
9 requirements or standards, that you had not been had any 10 problems with.the company.
What was his response to that?
He said it's time to lay off, that I had been 11 A
12 force ranked low.
What does that mean, you'd been given a bad
{
13 0
14 evaluation?
15 A
In a group, I was determined for the overall need.
Even though I'd been 16 j 17 there for some time.
18 0
Okay.
To your knowledge, has Bechtel been laying 19 off superintendents?
I have no knowledge of anyone being laid off 20 A
No.
21 in my area at all.
22 0
Do you know most of the Bechtel employees there that were of equal status with yourself 23 24 A
I'm grade hich is probably one of the Q
Grad s pretty well 25 highest up in the top lead guys.
l TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177 p
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up in the company.
o grad r
Are you aware of anyone grad'e 2
0 L_
1 fthat'sbeenlaidoffbesidesyourself?
s 3
I have no knowledge of it.
4 A
title of superintendent or or anybody having the 5
0 a similar title who may have been laid off?
6 I had no A couple of years ago, you know.
7 A
knowledge of anybcdy that was being laid off.
8 9
0 okay.
I'm the only guy at Bechtel 10 A
As far as I know, They now subsequently that's been laid off at that time.
11 said there's going to be more, you know.
12 it's a reduction of force of 13 0
So at this time, 14 one?
15 A
Right.
I Anybody else in your new position of MR. REIS:
16 17 surplus marketing?
I asked Mr. Davis if I was going to THE WITNESS:
18 be replaced and he said no, my position was not to be i
19 And all the work that I have done 20 replaced with another.
has been an asset; my supervisor has asked for my -- he i
21 But he is not able, because needs my position, he -told me.
22 of this layof f, to get ar.ymore.
23 is Your immediate supervisor, 24 0
(By Mr. Driskill) 25 that Mr. Surber?
(713) 222-7177 TATE REPORTING SERVICE,
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A Ar. Patterson.
2 O
Mr. Patterson indicated to you that he needed, i
3 someone to do the job that you were doing; however, due to 4
the fact that you were being laid oft, he would not be 5
allowed to replace you?
6 A
He had asked for a replacement and denied j
7 replacement.
8 MR. CARPENTEE:
Could I back up to a statement 9
that you made?
Did you go to the SAFETEAM with your 10 concerns, or to HL&P with your concerns?
They told you 11 were being laid off and you could tell everything you 12 wanted to to the ShFETEAM.
Did you avail yourself of that i
13 opportunity prior to this or at this time?
14 THE WITNESS:
I got a telephone call from the l
15 manager of the SAFETEAM.
Mr. Norge Guthrie at 10-17, at f
16 9:00 a.m., and he called me again at 1:06 on 10-20-86.
He 17 inquired if I had anything I needed to identify or talk to 18 them about.
19 I told him that I was in a meeting with Mr. Davis 20 and he told me that Bechtel had turned the problems over to 21 HL&P for their action, to their management.
And that I 22 worked for Bechtel and I felt like that I would have to go, 23 still be with Bechtel.
24 Q
(By Mr. Driskell)
Or notify Bechtel of any 8
25 problems that you identified r+ther than the SAFETEAM7 j
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A-Yes.
I asked him if -- this is on the 20th, i f i
2 Bechtel had registered anything with the SAFETEAM or.had i
3 HL&P.
He said no.
[
4 Q
Here, you're welcome to this table.
f 5
MR. CARPENTER:
So you did not carry your 6
concerns to the SAFETEAM because you wanted to work within
(
7 the Bechtel system first?
f 8
THE WITNESS:
Yes, sir.
9 MR. CARPENTER:
I don't want to put words in your l
10 mouth, but --
t 11 THE WITNESS:
I've been with the company over 27
}
i 12 years; I follow work as directed.
I felt like that the 13 prerogative was of my management.
They identified what I j
14 was to do, and I was down at that location doing'it.
r i
15 I got a call today from SAFETEAM. oMr. Jim j
16 Galagher called me today, which is the 6th.
And-he called 17 on me to report if I had any findings to report and he's 18 looking for some information.
I asked him if Bechtel had reported anything and l
19 i
20 he said no, they had not; that he had got from his boss, r
1 21 Mr. Gillespie, to look into it.
And he had gotten word l
l 22 from HL&P.
We could go into this later but to answer your
(
23 questions, I only responded to Mr. Gillespie's information I
24 or question to me and I responded today to Mr. Galagher and j
h 25 he asked me if I would help him.
I says if he got TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177 j
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1 40 I would help him.
permission from the project management, I
2 MR. CARPENTER:
As a word of explanation, ordinarily if you would cont:ct your management about a 3
4 problem, they would not contact SAFETEAM.
The SAFETEAM is designed for employees to go to 5
So I wouldn't and then SAFETEAM goes and finds the answer.
6 I would not expect whe.' you told your problems to Bechtel, 7
because SAFETEAM is have expected Bechtel to tell SAFETEAM, 8
if you will, or 9
really an audit and enforcement group, 10 investigation group.
So if you go to SAFETEAM, then they will take 11 your concerns and go find work with Bechtel to find the i
12 13 answers to them.
And also, for your information and protection, Bechtel will not interfere with you going to 14 SAFETEAM to express a concern and to appropriately 15 investigate and resolve your concerns, that is what it's 16 And if they do not allow you to go to the 17 there for.
then they SAFETEAM with your concerns, and express them, 18 So I are violating their agreement with the licensee.
19 would be interested in --
20 Could I say something at this point?
21 MR. DRISKILL:
Yes.
22 If they do not allow to you talk MR. CARPENTER:
23 I would be interested in that.
24 to SAFETEAM, 25 MR. DRISKILL:
Yes TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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May I ask something at this point,
/
2 what Mr. Carpenter is talking about?
3 MR. CARPENTER:
Yes.
4 MR. DRISKILL:
Yes.
- when -- there have been several cases 5
6 where I personally know several people in the last three 7
and-a-half years that I have also on the project that 8
people who have reported significant deficiencies to the 9
EAFETEAM.
They were either terminated, fired, were moved 10 from their assignments, ignored, demoted, and all of those 11 or one of those things, in almost a wide variety of cases.
12 That's all I wanted to say.
13 MR. DRISKILL:
Off the record.
14 (Discussion off the record.)
15 MR. DRISKILL:
Back on the record.
Thank you,
)
18 MR. DRISKILL:
-- this evening, okay?
19 All right.
20 Q
(By Mr. Driskill)
Going back t ou then sat down and wrote 21 situation 22 a letter to Chairman Zech of the NRC, which I showed you a 23 little while ago.
Is that --
24 A
It was the following day.
25 0
Yes.
Is that correct?
f
]
A ( P-)
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A Correct.
t 2
Q And I understand you also sent or I noticed that 3
you also sent copies of that to the Public Utility 4
Commission and to Congressman or Senator Bentsen?
5 A
Yes, sir.
6 Q
Have you had any response from PUC or 7
Mr. Bentsen?
8 A
Not as yet.
As I just explained to you we just 9
had an election here in Texas and I'm sure those guys are 10 still counting their votes or wounds, one.
11 Q
Has your status changed?
Are you still scheduled l
12 for termination I guess, about the 15th of this month?
13 A
I've got four days left of my employment.
14 Q
Has anyone discussed any options you may have for 15 continued employment subsequ'ent to that notification?
16 A
I met with Mr. Zacharia on 10-22-86, at -- I 17 believe it was 1:30 in the afternoon.
At which time, he 18 had there Mr. Hess, who is the No. 2 guy or the engineering 19 or assistant manager for the project.
And Mr. Zacharia at 20 that time went through the DCAR system that they used to go 21 and check the plant out for changes.
22 Q
Relative to the deficiencies you had identified?
23 A
Relative to how they do it.
24 Q
okay.
25 A
That is their method.
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Q Their procedure for that?
2 A
Their procedure.
He showed me'a few several 3
DCARs and I read through them.
I didn't notice any DCARs 4
prepared from that which I had found and I asked him did i
5 they -- had they found that which I had found previously 6
and he said no.
So my findings were new to them at that
.l 7
time.
Mr. Zacharia was trying to explain to me or get t
8 9
me to understand that everything is going to be taken care 10 of, before the plant hydro and/or after the plant was running, he assured me that everything would be all right.
11 12 I told him I wasn't satisfied with that.
I want to go back in time to the first meeting 13 14 with Mr. Davis.
I also told him I was so concerned about t
15 the overall, the nature of our meeting here, that I wanted 16 to know for sure that the plant would be safe, that these j
17 things that I know would be taken care of.
Now, we'll go back to the zacharia, the meeting 18 h
19 of 10-22.
He told me that they would be taken care of.
I 20 said at that time, I want to know if they are or not.
In answer to the question, he said that there are 21 j
He knows possibilities that he could get me some work.
22 know Mr. Bill Ponds and Bill Ponds down there that 23 that I 24 has a job that's in trouble down there.
25 0
Where is that? ?
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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i 44 l'
A In Florida.. He knows that John Stahl in June 2
called me to the Eastern Bechtel Power Company where I,
j 3
presented, designed and implemented the sequential material.
4 control program with the bar code for the' future of the 5
company.
i 6
So Mr. Stahl had me go there at which' time I met 7-with Mr. Hardwall, the president of that company and just 8
greeted him because of our acquaintance together and told 9
him I was there to assist that manager in developing the i
10 bar code for the corporation, j
11 Q
What's a bar code?
12 A
Bar code is in essence a wand similar to the one
]
i 13 that you go over with a loaf of bread over your counter.
j 14 Q
okay.
15 A
In my experience of the company, I've been very 16 innovative in that field in material tracking, 17 installation, sequencing, et cetera.
And he knew that I i
18 knew John Stahl, he told me that he talked to the president 19 of the Bechtel group of companies, Mr. Alden Yates and he 20 thought very highly of me.
And Mr. Stahl does too.
That 21 maybe that would be a possibility of work.
22 Q
But nothing was confirmed at that meeting?
23 A
Nothing.
Possibility.
Maybe we could get you 24 some work there.
I want to see that that plant is done 25 right.
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
I 45
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1 0
South Texas Project?
'2 A
I want to see that the south Texas Project, those 3
things that I find -- what I hear is that in these meetings 4
with these managers, and engineers, is, "It will be done 5
later."
6 It's called enhancement, it's called DKR changes, 7
but when I go with those representatives that will go with I want them to realize the magnitude of my concern and 8
me, 9
the volume of work to be done.
10 If we get that plant on the line, we're going to 11 have to do a lot of shut down.
It's going to take more 12 time, it's going to cost people money to do it later.
The 13 time to install and design is up front.
I'm appalled and 14 I've told each one of these individuals; and I give you a 15 statement from Mr. Hurley of what he said was wrong with 16 it, poor supervision and poor engineering.
I saw that.
17 That's now what I want done.
18 I feel I have a right to know that those valves, 19 that those instruments, that those pieces of equipment, we 20 talks-! about tonight and others that I have listed, is 21 assuredly taken care of; that I am not convinced that an 22 enhancement is the way to go.
That is the top of my 23 concern.
24 0
Okay.
25 A
And it grieves me.
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
i 46 i
i Let me ask you another couple of questions with 1
Q respect to -- with respect to this termination business.
2-i You were notified on October the 15th that you would be 3
4 terminated.
Is that the first time you were ever notified-i 5
that you would be terminated?
- r l
6 A
That's the first time ever I even had a clue.
l Had there been any layoffs in the past where you.
7 Q
were scheduled for termination and they may have 8
i that reconsidered and removed your name from the list, 9
10 you're aware of?
They didn't tell me at those times.
i 11 A
12 O
okay.
So this came as a total and complete surprise to you that you would be terminated.
13 14 A
Yes.
And why do you believe that you were selected for i
15 0
16 termination on October the 15th?
I don't think only heard what they told me.
17 A
I that it's fair to terminate a man that wants to do 18 something so badly or because I did do what I did, be so 19 20 abrupt.
If I wasn't performing, I should have been Through the Bechtel policy you're supposed to be 21 notified.
22 worked with, coached, reprimanded in your record.
I have 23 none of that.
I was down doing a job; I come across this 24 and I did it.
And that's my story.
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25 MR. DRISKILL:
Do you have any questions, Dan?
2 I
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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i 1
MR. CARPENTER:
I just want to be sure, there's 2
nothing in your file, no notifications or contacts-of
?
3 improper. work, you know, prior to whatever they've done l
4 here, is that what you said?
5 THE WITNESS:
I went to personnel and contacted
{
6 Mrs. Odel this afternoon about 2:30, and she handed me my i
t 7
total file at the site on my personal records.
She sat 8
there with re.
I read through the whole file which is a i
9 duplicate of my corporate history, every evaluation in my 10 life is here except one which was in the Anarbor division
]
11 office and they're calling that up.
There is not anything 12 in that file anywhere that says I wasn't exceptional or i
13 outstandingly meets requirements; there's not a note, an 14 indication in writing, anywhere in that file, and that's of j
I 15 today, this afternoon.
I 16 Q
(By mr. Driskill)
Do you have any indication i
i 17 whatsoever that you're being terminated for identifying l
18 these deficiencies?
I mean aside from perhaps your own 19 personal feelings, do you have any evidence?
1 20 A
I have only done what I've told you I've done.
I 21 have, I have no opportunity to have evidence.
i 22 O
Okay.
Well, I'm just saying -- I'm asking you:
l 23 Did anybody come to you on the side and tell you that, 24
" Hey, you're being terminated because you brought up all 25 these problem areas," and/or something like that?
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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I 48
'l 1
A I have been told by Steve Patterson that after I 2
came back from the meeting with Mr. Leo Davis who says, "Go l
3 back down to surplus marketing," that he is to know where I 4
am at all times, and he was told by Mr. Barlow, "That goes l
5 for the the whole group, of course."
And I've been f
6 virtually under surveillance ever since.
I either have to 7
take a beeper with me or one of the guys go with me.
8 And I've promised Mr. Steve Patterson that I 9
thought too much of him and of my company to ever breech 10 his trust or the assignment by Mr. Leo to stay where I was 11 supposed to be.
I thought it was uncalled for.
And after l
got my letter from Mr. Yates which had been 12 I got that, I 13 opened.
r 14 Today I got my paycheck and that envelope was 15 opened.
Some others were, too.
But I fell like these are 16 impositions not according to my history, to my grade, to my performance, or to the deep feeling that I had to come to 17 18 this point.
I don't think it's a measure of confidence in i
I don't feel like the company site management took me 19 me, 20 into a posture of cooperation like I expected.
21 o
Let me ask you another question.
Prior to your preparing and sending the letter to Chairman Zech, did you 22 23 tell anybody, the day before, or at any time prior to that that you were going to contact the NRC relative to these 24 25 deficiencies you had identified?
l TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177 I
L 49 1
A No, sir.
That letter was typed at home.
2 Q
No, but what I'm asking you is did you tell 3
anybody prior to writing the letter that you were going to 4
do that?
5 A
No.
After I wrote the letter, when I wrote the 6
second letter, Mr. Yates, I told him, that I had written 7
the NRC, who is the president of the Becthel group of l
8 companies.
9 Q
And you wrote him after you had been --
i 10 A
Yes.
11 Q
After you had been notified of your termination?
12 A
And I also told my immediate supervisor after the 13 fact, not prior to.
14 0
okay.
15 A
It was a decision that I had to make that I did
[
16 make.
i 17 Q
Oh, you told your supervisor?
18 A
After the fact.
I 19 Q
Several weeks ago that you had notified the NRC?
20 A
No, just after I had written it, yes, many days 21 afterwards.
22 Q
So they were' aware that you had written us?
23 A
Yes.
1 24 0
or at least written the chairman?
25 A
Right.
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
I 50 1
O okay.
You know, I I have not tried to hide anything.
2 A
3 am up front with my company.
4 MR. DRISKILL:
Do you have anything?
5 MR. CARPENTER:
No.
Just I've got everything I need.
6 MR. REIS:
No, When was your -- what was the date of 7
one particular date.
the original letter to Mr. Yates?
8 THE WITNESS:
9 10 MR. REIS:
Thank you.
11 0
(By Mr. Driskill) one of the things I was concerned about and I'll tell you this, was that perhaps 12 your termination may have resulted from your contacting the 13 Based on what you've told us, apparently you were 14 NRC.
notified of your termination at least initially prior to 15 So as I understand 10 CFR 50.
16 writing a letter to the NRC.
I believe, which cofifies Section 210 of the Energy 17 7,
relative to the discrimination of an 18 Reorganization Act, employee for notifying the NRC of safety concerns, I don't 19 think that you have a grievance that you could file with 20 the Department of Labor based on the circumstances, first 21 22 of all.
I intend, between those of us here, Secondly, I 23 intend to take a look at this situation and see if there 24 appears to be any sort of discrimination based on the fact 25 o
I
L' TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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+
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51 1,
that you notified your company of what you considered to be
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7 i
2 significant problems, safety problems, either personal 1
3 safety or safety with respect to the operation of the e
4 plant, and make an effort -- I will make an effort to l
5 determine if your termination resulted from that.
As you j
I 6
asked, I will provide you with a copy of the transcript and 7
I will also, at your request, provide you with a copy of my.
l 8
final report subsequent to its completion and release.
I 9
can make no promises.
3 i
10 A
I beg your pardon?
1 11 Q
I say I can make no promises with respect to what i
12 I will find, because obviously there's a great anny j
13 unknowns and I have to rely probably on a great deal of j
j 14 testimonial evidence.
- t 15 A
You know, when you're with a company so long, 16 your loyalty is there.
I mean a long time.
17 Q
Sure.
18 A
And when you're confronted with your management 19 and you're upset because you're not being responded to, 20 then I know you can go to the NRC.
And our policy says i
21 that.
22 Q
Well, the NRC says that too.
So you have every j
i 23 right to contact us, either without going to your company j
i 24 or after you go to your company.
So you're well within l
your rights to come to the NRC and to expect not to be j
25 TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
I 52 1
discriminated against as a result of contacting the NRC.
2 They may not.like it, but that's the way the ballgame's 3
played.
4 MR. DRISKILL:
Anybody have any other questions?
5 MR. CARPENTER:
No.
If you have this punch list 6
of specific items, you know, that you notify them on and if 7
.you can get with me, I'll look at these and see what there 8
is out there.
I can only deal with nuclear safety issues.
9 If there's nothing wrong with it from a nuclear safety 10 standpoint, you know, that's between Bechtel and HL&P.
So 11 if it's like a nonsafety system, you know, I can't get 12 inserted in that.
13 If HL&P is content with accepting what Bechtel 14 gives them in some of those nonsafety areas, you understand 15 I can't force them to do anything about that.
But if it's i
16 on you know, a safety system, to support the reactor and 17 you know I can look at those and that's the kind of
.\\
l 18 information that I need to look at.
19 And another thing that you should know, as this 20 progresses, and you are terminated, the 15th, that does not i
21 cut you off from contact with the NRC.
You know, our phone 22 number's in the book.
And you know, we can meet with you, 23 that's your prerogative to keep in contact with us on these 24 issues.
25 THE WITNESS:
Will I be able to Jrrsonally know TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
I 53 I
that, see that those items are corrected?
2 MR. CARPENTER:
I can look at your items and 3
those that I have the ability to get a resolution to, we 4
can get that information to you.
5 THE WITNESS:
I won't be able to see it, though.
I'll just have to still take somebody's word for it.
6 7
MR. CARPENTER:
I am there all the time.
If they 8
tell me they've corrected a problem, I can go look at it.
9 THE WITNESS:
But I won't know it.
10 MR. CARPENTER:
You'll get the word from me.
I 11 really don't know what --
12 MR. DRISKILL:
Let me just ask a question.
I'll reiterate a little bit of what Dan was saying.
He's saying 13 that certain things that the NRC can look at and basically 14 15 has the jurisdiction to inspect, other things we don't.
Essentially nonsafety related items are outside the -- I'll 16 use the word " jurisdiction" for lack of a better term of 17 Dan, will you include your findings relative to e
18 the NRC.
ints out to you in some sort 19 the things tha 20 of a report?
21 MR. CARPENTER:
Yes, I can do that.
The other thing I would encourage you to do is to give the entire 22 23 list both, safety-related and nonsafety-related to the SAFETEAM because they are obligated give you a written 24 That's their charter.
25 response to each of your points.
l-
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54 1
And they will do that.
If they don't do that, then that 2
information needs to come to me that they are not doing 3
that, because they have committed to the NRC to respond to 4
the concerns that people make about the safety of the 5
plant.
So there's, you know, two avenues.
6 ThL SAFETEAM, as well as the things that you can 7
get to me.
I can go look at them.
I can't guarantee that 8
the licensee will bring you back on site at some later date 9
so that you can physically see them.
You know, I can't 10 speak for the licensee from that standpoint.
11 THE WITNESS:
I may never know if that's all 12 taken care of.
It goes into a report somewhere I get a 13 word back, I don't know.
14 MR. CARPENTER:
If it's a safety system that I 15 have quote, " jurisdiction" over --
16 THE WITNESS:
I understand that part.
But those 17 items even that are not, out of your jurisdiction, I turn 18 those over, you get a report, I get a report, and with the 19 present condition of the plant, how we got there, makes me 20 suspicious'of that we'll change it and that the direction 21 of those that make that determination could be quite a bit 22 later.
My concern is to get it done now.
So that the 23 public safety and the public cost won't be extended all 24 that time.
25 f I may say something at this point.
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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1 MR. DRISKILL:
Yes, sir, you may.
'What you were just saying, I don't 2
know exactly the words that you used, but basically that 3
this is the main reason I'm here today, only one primary 4
5 reason.
And I think I can summarize it for the benefit of 6
everyone of us.
has only pointed out tip of the
/
7 iceburg of the problem.
i The major problem which is -- I will call that as 8
9 a symptom wha s talking about and this is just a 10 symptom you're looking at, gentlemen; the problem is
)
anybody who identifies or attempts to identify any 11 i
significant deficient problems, be it in documentation -- I 12 was in the quality control in the quality assurance of 13
)
14 Ebasco, when I started identifying problems to my
)
superiors, my supervisors, bang, here I go back out of QA
]
15 16 organization.
That is the generic problem.
17 What I think nd I are here for is we're p
seeking your help; we're seeking the help of NRC 18 administration or whoever, to come in and see how these 19 management people have buried the problems, not only that, 20 they have done a very good job of that by slowly and slowly 21 eliminating anybody who even understands if there is a 22 23 problem.
That is the only thing I'm here for today, to 24 s the one identify; and that is not just -- I think 25
< >13, 222->17>,p T_ _ _ _ _.
I 56
~
1 person who -- I can say nd I have known each other 2
for a long time; even during the last three and-a-half 3
years, we will occasionally meet, I'll say hese 4
are the problems which I identified to my boss, thic is 5
what happened last week, this is what happened."
6 And then he will say, "Oh, you are in QA last 7
week, how come you're over here now."
or you know, 8
whatever.
I'm not the only one.
j 9
so management of this project consistently very 10 efficiently and they have done an excellent job of that, of j
11 eliminating, burying, hiding, getting away, under the rug, i
12 sweeping, whatever words you want to use, in a very 13 efficient manner.
They are the boss, they decide where I 14 work, they decide where he works.
That's all I have to 15 say.
16 And I think that's the only reason I was here, to 17 kind of say that if you are really seriously interested in 18 finding out what the problems are, you need to find the
\\
19 people who will tell you about it, but they're three major 20 risks you have to take.
)
{
21 No. 1, you go talk to your boss, "Ah-hah, we've 22 tot to find him force rank him somehow so we can do 23 something with him, or see if we can find some other reason 24 to get him someplace else."
That didn't work.
25 Just put him somewhere in a shipyard or surplus
/
TATE RE?ORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177 7 /gj 7
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I 57 1
marketing.
I don't know wha.t that means for a nuclear 2
power plant.
So these are some of the symptoms.
3 I'm talking in a generic sense but I think if the 4
interests is there, if the audience here_is really 5
interested in finding out what we're really building into 6
our nuclear power plants, they really need to look, 7
probably they need a microscope because obviously nobody is 8
listening.
And if'you gentlemen are seriously interested j
9 in finding out the real safety of the public of the United 10 States, there is a big task ahead of us.
We are here to 11 help; we've tried; all we have got is --
12 THE WITNESS:
I got terminated, I'm the first guy 13 that seriously has pointed out specific technical points.
II any that's where the problem is.
14 15 MR. CARPENTER:
When you say that, you mean 16 Bechtel, Ebasco.
17 nd HL&P all three of them combined.
18 MR. CARPENTER:
All three them.
19
' Combined.
Because I personally, I was 20 in QA organization from October of '85 to March or April of 21
'86.
I was asked to come into the QA organization from an 22 engineering organization wh ca I worked for all these 16 23 years.
I helped them in the code, ASME code requirements.
24 And you know to basically do work in QA because I 25 wanted to and they needed me.
And when I got there, I TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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l 58 1
found the kind of problems we had and now we're getting 2
into the area of turning over systems, turning over, 3
preparing quality control quality documents for licensing 4
for this plant.
There is the documentation which NRC will
~
5 use in the evaluations of the licensee application, whether 6
the plant should be licensed.
I thought it was a very j
7 critical documentation which I was looking at.
j 8
Based on my knowledge, based on my experience, I i
9 identified it, in writing and verbally to my immediate t
10 supervisor.
Slowly and surely my immediate supervisor was 11 eliminated; in other words he was, he's no longer working 12 there because he, he agreed with me.
So they said "Well, 13 first let's do that."
So then I was left.
And they 14 expected that I would stop identifying those problems 15 anymore because I had nobody, nobody would listen to my 16 problems, that was exactly what happened.
They were right.
17 But one day, I had the courage, or I gathered 18 enough courage, knowing fully that I may be terminated just 19 then or next week, or whatever; but I said, well, I really l
20 believe, very strongly, that this problem needs to be told 21 to my supervisor, maybe he doesn't know about it.
I'm
)
22 talking about not my immediate supervisor but his 23 supervisors, his supervisor; so I made a special effort to 24 contact them and said, well, you really have these 25 problems.
I don't know if you are aware of these problems, TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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59 1
but if you are not aware of, I'm here to make you aware and 2
then I'm here to solve the problems and this is what we 3
need to do to solve these problems.
Okay, we'll talk about 4
it.
5 Word gets back, you are not following the 6
instructions.
You better follow the instructions.
Or 7
else.
I took another week or so to work it out and I think 8
I even, you know, at times like this, I will talk to John 9
or some other fellow that I have, who have known me for 10 several years, have a lot of experience, respect their 11 integrity, you know, we're -- I don't want to call, we, I 12 said let me speak for myself.
I like to work for the 13 company who pays me, I like to do the best job I can, the 14 best job I know how.
That's just I can speak that this is 15 what we like to do.
16 MR. DRISKILL:
Allow me, this is taking a i
17 direction other than, is the way we normally do business.
18 I understand what you're saying, and I understand that your J
19 speaking in behalf of And in behalf of --
20
'I think I'm speaking in behalf of --
21 MR. DRISKILL:
His concern and your only concern i
22 relative to the manner in which South Texas Project is 23 being perhaps built and --
'I would like to add only one more 24 25 thing.
I think I'm also speaking on behalf of the public g j I
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177 ] C l
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60 I
who we tell every day to various media everything is fine.
2 The people out there do not know, do not have the education 3
or the background or the experience to know or to
~
4 rationalize it one way or the other.
5 MR. DRISKILL:
All I'm saying is, do you have to 6
leave?
7 ean, I don't have to but I'm just 8
saying that that was the the reasons I wanted to come out; 9
you see, let me just, if I can be very blunt.
10 MR. DRISKILL:
The problem is I've got a 11 transcript here --
12 MR. DRISKILL:
Off the record.
13 (Discussion off the record. )
14 MR. DRISKILL:
J appreciate the 15 contribution that you have made t testimony
]
16 and I will appreciate it if you will allow me some time to 17 discuss it further with you at a later date, or at your 18 convenience.
19 0
(By Mr. Driskell
'before we close, I 20 would like'to ask you:
Have I or any other representatives 21 of the NRC here threatened you in any manner or offered you 22 any rewards in return for this statement?
23 A
No, but I have some reservations that things are 24 left hanging.
I'm going to get a report.
That's all I 25 know.
I f '0 TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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O.
Let me ask you another question.
Have you given g
2 this statement freely and voluntarily?
3 A
I swear to that.
4 0
Is there anything further you would care to add 5
for the record?
You feel that all you're going to get is a 6
report.
Is that your concern, that you're not going to be 7
able to see that all of these things are corrected?
)
8 A
Yes.
And I hope I explained that to you.
9 0
You did.
Anyone that would go to the lengths that I have 10 A
11 and to get terminated for it and to live here, born here, 12 right here on this coast, I'm concerned.
And I was proud l
13 to work for this company when I got here.
And I --
14 Q
From my standpoint, as an investigator for the I conduct the investigation; I prepare a report and I 15
- NRC, provide it to engineering side of the house and to the 16 management portion of NRC for their review and for them to 17 make some determinations with respect to what you've had to 18 19 say.
Obviously and as Mr. Carpenter has stated that he 20 will be more than willing and happy to go and look at the 21 22 things that you have told him about.
Obviously, there are i
going to be some engineering decisions made with respect to 23 l
24 as we spoke about earlier, whether they are in the jurisdiction of the NRC to make some determination relative 25 TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
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9 1
t 2
L 3
4 JOHN A.
CORDER 5
THE STATE OF TEXAS
- l COUNTY OF HARRIS 6
l SUBSCRIBED AND SWORN TO before me on this j
7 day of 1986.
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8 l
l 9
NOTARY PUBLIC Harris County, Texas
[
10 My Commission expires on i
11 12 i
13 14 15 16 I
17 18 19 20 l
i l
21 22 l
1 e
23 24 25 i
TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177 4
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1.
THE STATE OF' TEXAS:
I
-2 COUNTY OF HARRIS:
.3 I,
R. Patrick Tate, Certified Shorthand Reporter and
.l 4
Notary Public in and for the State of Texas,-do hereby 5
certify that the facts as stated by me in the caption 6
hereto are true; that the above and foregoing answers of
)
7 the witness to the Interrogatories as indicated were made i
8 before me by the said witness after being first duly 9
cautioned and sworn to testify the truth, the whole truth 10 and nothing but the truth, and the same were thereafter i
11 reduced to typewriting by me or under my direction and 12 supervision.
13 I further certify that the above and foregoing 14 sworn statement, as set forth in typewriting is a full, l
15 true and correct transcript of the. proceedings had at the 16 time of taking of said sworn statement, and that I an 17 neither of kin or of counsel to any of the parties herein, 18 or have any interest whatever in the outcome of the case.
I 19 In testimony whereof, witness my hand, this 7th i
20 day of November, 1986.
21 22 L
l
/
23 My Business address is:
CL~.R_ q j
i e
e 1616 Esperson Buildings R'. Patrick Tate, CSR 61730
./
24 Houston, Texas 77002 Notary Public in and for
[
the.* tate of Texas 25 My Commission Expires: 06-27-89 TATE REPORTING SERVICE, (713) 222-7177
_