ML041120358
| ML041120358 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Vermont Yankee  |
| Issue date: | 03/31/2004 |
| From: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| To: | |
| Ennis R, NRR/DLPM, 415-1420 | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML041120155 | List: |
| References | |
| NRC-1401, TAC MC0761 | |
| Download: ML041120358 (6) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Vermont Yankee Power Uprate Public Meeting Docket Number: (not applicable)
Location: Vernon, Vermont Date: Wednesday, March 31, 2004 Work Order No.: NRC-1401 Pages 1-124 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 Enclosure 2
ERRATA SHEET The Nuclear Regulatory Commission staff has made the following corrections to the transcription provided by Neal R. Gross and Co., Inc.:
- 1) On page 61, line 20, the speaker name was changed from "Mr. Ruland" to "Mr. Richards."
- 2) On page 114, line 11, the speaker name was changed from "Mr. Ruland" to "Mr. Pelton."
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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CAT 3 PUBLIC MEETING VERMONT YANKEE POWER UPRATE MEETING
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WEDNESDAY, MARCH 31, 2004
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VERNON, VERMONT
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The public meeting was held at the Vernon Elementary School located at 381 Governor Hunt Road in Vernon, Vermont, Bill Ruland presiding.
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2 I-N-D-E-X Speaker John Burke . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 David OBrien . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 Peggy Farabough . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 Sarah Edwards . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 Peter Alexander . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 55 Peter Dizinski . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 60 Dan Jeffries . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63 Gary Sacks . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 64 Julie Enochs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66 Julian Enochs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 70 Edward Sprague . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 Jonathan Block . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 73 Phillip Riendeau . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 76 Meredith Blum . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 82 Ned Childs . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 83 Alan Steinberg . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 87 Andy Davis . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 92 Pamela Cabbage . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 96 Judy Davidson . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 99 Magdaline Bollitus . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 102 Deb Katz . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 104 James Doyle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 106 Harold Bradeen . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 108 Sunny Miller . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 109 Tim Stevenson . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 110 Nancy Burton . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 112 Andrea Scheidle . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 116 Jeannette Peiffer . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 119 Fred Sprite . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 120 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 8:18 p.m.
3 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Good evening. Good 4 evening, and thank you for coming. Im glad to see 5 that everybodys prepared for the meeting and brought 6 fans, because were all here in the room together.
7 Okay.
8 MR. BIDWELL: Evidently, theres a Prius 9 hybrid with its lights on out in the parking lot. I 10 dont know if theres a bunch of people who drive 11 them. What was that license plate number again?
12 PNORGUM. Okay. Sorry about that.
13 CHAIRMAN RULAND: My name is Bill Ruland, 14 and Im with the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, and 15 Im the Manager in charge of the power uprate process 16 at the NRCs headquarters in Rockville, Maryland.
17 We are holding this meeting at the request 18 of the Vermont Senators, Leahy and Jeffords.
19 (Applause.)
20 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Youre going to need to 21 bear with us a little bit. As you know, the venue has 22 changed dramatically. Its obvious that you folks 23 want to talk about questions and answers, so were 24 going to forego most of our prepared remarks and 25 presentation. Im going to ask our staff to make some NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 key points, and were going to move quickly into 2 questions and answers.
3 However, before we start, I have some 4 introductions we need to make, and Id like -- before 5 I do that, Id like to introduce our facilitator who 6 will help us with this meeting. Mr. Bidwell, David 7 Bidwell, go ahead.
8 MR. BIDWELL: Good evening, everybody.
9 (Applause.)
10 MR. BIDWELL: I was laughing to someone 11 earlier if you know the classic chant of this is what 12 democracy looks like. I was saying in the room as hot 13 it was getting in there, it was starting to be this is 14 what democracy smells like.
15 I want to thank everybody for coming out.
16 I think this is absolutely fantastic -- huge turnout, 17 lots of people that are here. We know that there are 18 incredibly strong feelings about this issue, and its 19 my goal to help try to get those feelings and ideas 20 out going both directions and across the way to people 21 that are here. I have a few notes just to make sure 22 that I explain who I am and whats going on tonight.
23 Like I said, my name is David. I work for 24 a company called the Perspectives Group. Were a 25 company that does lots of different kinds of public NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 1 involvement processes, and we are paid by NRC, I want 2 to make that clear up-front, but I am paid to be a 3 neutral, which is something that I take very 4 seriously, okay? Its true. No, listen, I get paid 5 to run advisory boards and things like that around the 6 country, but I like to let people know who pays me 7 because its important to folks.
8 Just so folks know, there is a court 9 reporter here tonight who is documenting the meeting.
10 Thats so that the NRC understands and remembers what 11 everyone said, they can take it back. They also will 12 make that transcript available publicly. An important 13 thing for him that is really going to help is that 14 before you speak you state your name very clearly, 15 okay, and spell it for him. And Ill try to remember 16 with my feeble mind to remind you to do that.
17 I think everyone knows this building 18 better than I do, so Im not going to tell you where 19 the restrooms are; theyre out in the hall. This is 20 going to be a long meeting, okay? Please feel free to 21 move around as you need. If you have kids, need to 22 walk around, do that sort of thing, thats great.
23 And just to talk a little bit about my 24 goal and what Im tasked with tonight, okay? It is to 25 try to make this the most productive conversation that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 it can be. Now, what does productive mean? There are 2 lots of definitions for that.
3 (Audience shouting.)
4 MR. BIDWELL: Hold on. Hold on. Okay?
5 There are lots of definitions of that. What I want to 6 try to do is allow NRC to talk about their process and 7 what goes on but also for you all to provide the 8 information to them. Just a few -- let me ask for 9 some -- a few people here said, "Can you keep control 10 of this?" My answer is, no. No one takes control of 11 a meeting, okay? People decide to cooperate with a 12 meeting. There will be lots of opportunities to talk.
13 There is not going to be an opportunity for everyone 14 to give a long speech, sort of like Im doing now.
15 A couple of things that will help us get 16 through tonight and then Ill move on and let them 17 talk, and then well have a question and answer. One 18 is please try to be as respectful as you can. Thats 19 not to say dont express yourself, please express 20 yourself, but remember that there are diverse people 21 in this room who have different objectives of being in 22 this meeting, okay? So we want to try to allow an 23 opportunity for as much dialogue as we can and have 24 people get what they need to get out of this meeting.
25 For some people, its going to be getting up to date NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 on what the issue is; for some people, its going to 2 be stating their position.
3 In general, if you can, keep the chit-chat 4 with your neighbors to a minimum. That is helpful.
5 You are very large group, and if you have just a 6 couple dozen people who are talking, it will really 7 make it hard for other people to hear. That doesnt 8 mean I dont want you to talk about things if you need 9 to discuss it with someone. There are doors all 10 around -- over here, here, here, here, here. Take a 11 quick step outside the room and get your strategies in 12 order.
13 (Audience member shouting.)
14 MR. BIDWELL: Youre absolutely right, and 15 if I can get through this real quick, were going to 16 move on. I am going to be going around as people 17 raise hands with the microphone. To start with, Im 18 glad to give you the microphone. If folks start to 19 take long, long speeches that are keeping other people 20 from being able to talk, then Im going to have to 21 start holding the microphone for you, and I dont want 22 to do that. I think you guys are a good group. I 23 think you can do this, and I want it to happen.
24 Excellent.
25 And unbelievable enough, thats all I had NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 to say. Thank you. Im going to be walking around.
2 Please if you have suggestions, whisper them in my 3 ear, okay? Thank you.
4 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Thank you, David. I see 5 some hands already raised. Okay. Like I said, give 6 us just a few minutes to paint a picture about our 7 process and our inspection program. Weve already 8 elected to not use our slides. Ive asked my staff 9 here to get five key points that they think that --
10 Ive asked them on short notice to make some five key 11 points about the areas they intended to cover so we 12 can go quickly to questions and answers. Id ask you 13 to bear with us a little bit while we get this done, 14 okay?
15 The primary reason we are here at the 16 request of the Vermont Senators, okay, is to not only 17 describe our process briefly but to also take 18 questions and comments and concerns from the public.
19 Were transcribing the meeting. Pete Holland here is 20 our transcriber, so well be able to capture these 21 comments. The NRC will consider every comment that we 22 receive. At the end of this meeting, we will publish 23 a meeting summary. The transcript will be part of 24 that meeting summary, and we will also put a list of 25 what the questions and the key issues that we believe NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 weve garnered from reading that transcript, and were 2 going to provide responses, and were going to post 3 that on our web site to give everybody an idea where 4 were headed.
5 Before we start, Id like to introduce a 6 number of folks, particularly the federal, state and 7 local officials who are in attendance today. First, 8 from Senator Leahys office, Mr. Chuck Ross. Chuck?
9 (Applause.)
10 CHAIRMAN RULAND: From Senator Jeffords 11 office, Mr. Brian Keefe.
12 (Applause.)
13 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Any other federal 14 officials from any office? And as a matter of fact, 15 after I do these introductions, Im going to give them 16 a chance to make a statement.
17 From the State of Vermont, I have Patty 18 ODonnell, the State Representative from Vermont.
19 Patty?
20 (Applause.)
21 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Bill Sherman, the State 22 Nuclear Engineer. Bill?
23 (Applause.)
24 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Bill? Bill, wave.
25 Okay. There you are, Bill. Thank you. John Burke NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 who is on the Public Service Board. Mr. Burke?
2 (Applause.)
3 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Several Town of Vernon 4 selectmen, starting with the Chairman, Douglas 5 Fletcher.
6 (Applause.)
7 CHAIRMAN RULAND: A selectmen, Peggy 8 Farabaugh. Peggy?
9 (Applause.)
10 CHAIRMAN RULAND: And lets see, also Mr.
11 Len Peduzzi. Len?
12 (Applause.)
13 CHAIRMAN RULAND: And before I get to ask 14 them to make some initial statements before the 15 meeting, let me introduce the NRC staff. Yes, sir?
16 Im sorry. Im sorry. Any -- yes, sir.
17 MR. BALES: (Off Mike) Im Bart Bales.
18 Im here representing --
19 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Bart? And its Bart is 20 your name? I will also give you an opportunity. I 21 apologize for not asking for any other state 22 officials. Any other state officials? State 23 Representative Sarah Edwards.
24 (Applause.)
25 CHAIRMAN RULAND: The State Senator NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 Jeannette White.
2 (Applause.)
3 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Anybody else? Patty 4 ODonnell, State Representative.
5 (Applause.)
6 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Does that sign say, "Get 7 on with it." Im trying, sir. The NRC staff, we have 8 Stu Richards.
9 (Applause.)
10 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Stu has the Inspection 11 Program. He has the oversight for the Inspection 12 Program. We have Tony McMurtray.
13 (Applause.)
14 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Tony is our senior 15 engineer in charge of -- that helps me manage the 16 power uprate process. Rick Ennis who is the Senior 17 Project Manager for Vermont Yankee.
18 (Applause.)
19 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Some other staff, lets 20 see, Mr. Pelton, the senior resident.
21 (Applause.)
22 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Let me make sure I get 23 all these names right. We have Omar Patel, reactor 24 engineer.
25 (Applause.)
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12 1 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Don Florick, Senior 2 Project Engineer.
3 (Applause.)
4 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Brian Holian who spoke 5 a little -- did a great job at the first meeting.
6 (Applause.)
7 CHAIRMAN RULAND: And I think that covers 8 the NRC staff. So Id like now to give an opportunity 9 for the elected representatives or their staff to make 10 comments, starting with the Senators. So that would 11 be, let me get this right here, Senator Leahys 12 representative, Mr. Chuck Ross. Do you choose to make 13 a statement?
14 MR. ROSS: Good evening. Im Chuck Ross.
15 Im the State Director for Senator Patrick Leahy, and 16 Id like to read a statement.
17 First, I want to thank the staff of the 18 Nuclear Regulatory Commission for coming to Vermont 19 and to Vernon tonight to meet with and hear directly 20 from Vermonters about Vermont Yankees uprate 21 application. On behalf of Senator Leahy, we 22 appreciate the Commissions response to our request 23 for this meeting, and its good to see so many 24 Vermonters here tonight in this strong showing of 25 public interest in this very important issue.
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13 1 Senator Leahy recognizes that Vermont 2 Yankee is a significant component of our energy mix in 3 Vermont. We are dependent upon its power, it service 4 and its safety record. However, we need to be 5 confident that the review of its power uprate 6 addresses the concerns of Vermonters.
7 As you know, it has been perceived in 8 Vermont that the NRC has already decided not to 9 address the concerns raised by the Vermont Public 10 Service Board. I was glad to see in the Rutland 11 Herald today that you have not ruled us out. The 12 Vermont congressional delegation sent a letter today 13 to the Commission asking the NRC to address the 14 Boards concerns. The members of the Vermont 15 congressional delegation believe you have the 16 authority to do this, and they urge you to address the 17 Boards concerns as quickly as possible during your 18 review.
19 The bottom line is that we want the NRC to 20 do an analysis that will ensure that the plant is 21 reliable and safe after the uprate. Irrespective of 22 what you call the analysis, Vermonters need to be 23 confident that the analysis is thorough and complete 24 with respect to the issues of service and safety. It 25 is the job of the NRC to explain, design and conduct NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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14 1 the analysis that will allow Vermonters to have the 2 confidence that a subsequent uprate at Vermont Yankee 3 will be reliable and safe for the long term. Thank 4 you very much.
5 (Applause.)
6 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Mr. Brian Keefe from 7 Senator Jeffords office.
8 MR. KEEFE: Thank you. My name is Brian 9 Keefe. Im with Senator Jeffords office. Ill be 10 prompt. Id first like to thank the NRC for coming 11 here to hold this meeting. Im sure youll hear a lot 12 of different views on the matter before us. Safety, 13 of course, as Chuck just said, is of paramount concern 14 to all of us here, including Senator Jeffords, Senator 15 Leahy and Congressman Sanders who also signed the 16 letter that went today.
17 As Ranking Member of the Environment and 18 Public Works Committee, Senator Jeffords has 19 jurisdiction over the Nuclear Regulatory Commission, 20 so we are watching this closely. Weve been also in 21 close contact, of course, with the Public Service 22 Board and the Public Service Department. Once again, 23 safety, reliability, these are the big issues before 24 us today, and we look forward to a prompt response to 25 the Public Service Boards concerns. Thank you.
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15 1 (Applause.)
2 CHAIRMAN RULAND: I know that John Burke 3 from the Public Service Board would like to read a 4 statement.
5 MR. BURKE: Thank you. My name is John 6 Burke. Im one of the three members of Vermonts 7 Public Service Board. Id like, if you would, after 8 this meeting to deliver this letter as you return to 9 Chairman Diaz and Id read it to you and to the 10 meeting now.
11 "
Dear Chairman Diaz,
we wrote to you on 12 March 15, 2004 requesting that the United States 13 Nuclear Regulatory Commission conduct its review of 14 the proposed extended power uprate at Vermont Yankee 15 Nuclear Power Station in a way that will provide 16 Vermont with a level of assurance about reliability 17 equivalent to an independent engineering assessment.
18 We asked for this assessment because of our 19 significant concerns with the effect that the uprate 20 may have on the future reliability of Vermont Yankee.
21 Today, the owner of Vermont Yankee Energy 22 Nuclear Vermont Yankee submitted a filing with the 23 Vermont Public Service Board that included a letter 24 from the NRC to Vermont Senator James M. Jeffords.
25 That letter from William D. Travers, Executive NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 Director for Operations, suggested that the NRC was 2 planning to conduct a baseline inspection program for 3 the power uprate rather than expanding the review.
4 It is unclear whether that letter to 5 Senator Jeffords was intended to be the NRCs response 6 to this Board. We have also received notice that the 7 NRC will hold a meeting tonight in Vernon to discuss 8 the power uprate with members of the public. At the 9 present time, the Board has pending motions to 10 reconsider our order approving the proposed power 11 uprate.
12 (Applause.)
13 MR. BURKE: As a result, we cannot 14 actively debate the issues raised in our order.
15 However, we want to make very clear that the views 16 expressed in our previous letter are unchanged, 17 although we have not yet considered the pending 18 motions for reconsideration one of which seeks a more 19 extensive independent assessment.
20 (Applause.)
21 MR. BURKE: In particular, we reiterate 22 our request that the NRCs review of the proposed 23 power uprate include the following features. One, it 24 would be independent in the same sense as the 25 independent safety assessment of Maine Yankee, i.e. --
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17 1 (Applause.)
2 MR. BURKE: -- i.e. it should be performed 3 by experts independent of any recent or significant 4 regulatory oversight responsibility related to Vermont 5 Yankee. Secondly, the assessment would be a vertical 6 review of two safety-related systems and two 7 maintenance rule non-safety systems affected by the 8 uprate. The level of effort necessary for this work 9 has been described to us in testimony as requiring 10 about four experts for about four weeks. This will 11 provide a valuable check on the reliability of the 12 systems that are reviewed and allow for correction of 13 any problems.
14 Third, the independent engineering 15 assessment should be, as we believe it is expected, 16 reviewed by the ACRS in the context of their 17 evaluation of the power uprate.
18 We want to stress that our request is not 19 based on a concern about the safety of Vermont Yankee.
20 Safety is clearly an issue over which the NRC has 21 jurisdiction and considerable expertise. Instead, our 22 concern stems from the potential impact that the power 23 uprate could have upon reliability, which would affect 24 the value of Vermont to Vermont of existing purchase 25 agreements for power from Vermont Yankee.
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18 1 A number of nuclear plants have undergone 2 extended power uprates and have experienced outages or 3 power derates. The problems that led to these outages 4 may not have been safety-related but they have 5 affected the output of these nuclear plants. Our 6 request is based upon our obligation to ensure that 7 such outages are unlikely at Vermont Yankee.
8 Because of factors that are unique to 9 Vermont Yankee, we also do not expect that granting 10 our request will establish precedent. As we said in 11 our previous letter, the record evidence we have heard 12 shows that the proposed uprate at Vermont Yankee is 13 larger than those that have occurred at most other 14 nuclear plants, and, moreover, Vermont Yankee is one 15 of the older nuclear facilities.
16 Thank you very much for your consideration 17 of this matter. Sincerely Michael Dwarkin, Chairman, 18 David Cohen, Board Member, and myself, John Burke, 19 Board Member."
20 (Applause.)
21 MR. BIDWELL: I just want give folks a 22 quick reminder too that people who have prepared 23 letters or prepared statements are handing to the 24 folks up here so theyll be able to make sure that 25 theyre word-for-word included in the transcript of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 the meeting.
2 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Any other state or local 3 officials need to make a statement?
4 MR. BIDWELL: I believe theres a 5 gentleman over here.
6 MR. BALES: Im Bart Bales. I am -- B-A-7 L-E-S. I live in the town of Gill. I am here --
8 Gill, Massachusetts. Im here on behalf of actually 9 a number of elected officials who couldnt be here 10 tonight, and I have letters from each of them in this 11 envelope. And I wish to sort of give an overview of 12 what were speaking to.
13 The first person that I want to speak for 14 is Massachusetts legislator Steven Kulik who 15 represents a nearby district to this area. He, as I 16 do personally, calls for an independent engineering 17 assessment of the type called for and detailed by the 18 Vermont State Senate resolution.
19 (Applause.)
20 MR. BALES: And such an assessment should 21 be of the level of the assessment given to Maine 22 Yankee in the past.
23 I also hold a letter from the Board of 24 Selectmen of the Town of Gill, Massachusetts also 25 calling for an independent safety assessment for the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 Vermont Yankee plant. I can read these into the 2 record. I also have them written. Id like to read 3 just the Steven Kulik one.
4 "I write regarding the proposed uprate of 5 Entergy Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Plant that has 6 been requested by its owners. As I understand the 7 matter, Entergy has requested an uprate, which would 8 bring its output capacity to 120 percent of the power 9 it was originally designed for at the time of plant 10 opening 31 years ago. Last week, the Vermont Public 11 Service Board granted approval of that request 12 contingent on the successful completion of an 13 independent safety assessment.
14 I urge you to require that just such an 15 assessment be completed before any further action on 16 the uprate request is taken. It is critical to the 17 health and safety of the population that an 18 independent engineering assessment of all the plant 19 systems at Vermont Yankee plant be completed in order 20 to determine whether or not the systems are reliable 21 or safe under the current standards before an uprate 22 request is considered.
23 I represent the First Franklin District in 24 Franklin County, Massachusetts, which borders Vernon, 25 Vermont -- the Vernon, Vermont town where the plant is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 1 located. I strongly believe that this is a matter 2 that greatly affects my constituency because of our 3 close physical proximity to Vernon, regardless of the 4 political boundaries that preclude any official role 5 this office may play in the State of Vermont.
6 Clearly, the health and safety impact on 7 my district would be substantial in the event of any 8 accident, shutdown or other major event at the plant.
9 The threat to our residents physical well-being, job 10 status and overall security is potentially very great.
11 I understand and was pleased to learn that 12 my colleagues in the Vermont State Senate voted 13 unanimously on a resolution to ask for an independent 14 inspection with five criteria that are identical to 15 the independent safety assessment performed in 1996 at 16 the Maine Yankee at the request of then Governor Angus 17 King. I strongly support their resolution that calls 18 for an inspection that assesses the conformance of the 19 facility" -- Im going to give you the rest of this.
20 Its the five points that the Vermont Senate called 21 for identically.
22 "In light of the deep concerns about this 23 matter shared by myself and my constituency, I 24 strongly urge you to require that an independent 25 assessment be completed in order to analyze whether NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 1 Vermont Yankee is in compliance with current 2 regulations, what the risks to the uprate system might 3 include and what the full range of safety issues are 4 currently as well as in the proposed capacity 5 increase. Thank you for your consideration of this 6 request."
7 (Applause.)
8 MR. BIDWELL: Im sorry. Bill, could we 9 have just one more quick statement here?
10 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Sure. Go ahead.
11 MR. BIDWELL: If you could introduce 12 myself.
13 MR. OBRIEN: Yes. My name is David 14 OBrien. Im the Commissioner of the Department of 15 Public Service and also Chair of the Vermont State 16 Nuclear Advisory Panel. And I want to add our support 17 to essentially what Commissioner Burke just read from 18 the Public Service Board. Earlier today, in our 19 meeting, we resolved unanimously as a group to support 20 what the Board has asked for in their order to ask for 21 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission to do an independent 22 engineering assessment and to go further in their 23 review.
24 (Applause.)
25 MR. OBRIEN: Now, I know this is safely NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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23 1 a divisive issue with respect to Vermont Yankee, but 2 on this question of going the extra mile on a review 3 seems to be something we all now have a consensus 4 about, that our senators and our congressional 5 leadership has spoken on this issue in support of the 6 Public Service Board. The Public Service Board has 7 spoken and youve heard from Commissioner Burke. The 8 Vermont State Nuclear Advisory Panel today voted on 9 this.
10 I think that, gentlemen, the NRC, with all 11 due respect I think this is an opportunity for you to 12 be a little flexible in your process, and I would 13 expect that with your letter that you respond to the 14 Board that we can look for something a little 15 different than what we saw earlier this week. Thank 16 you very much.
17 (Applause.)
18 MR. BIDWELL: All right. Thank you. Just 19 a quick note in terms of process. I think its great 20 to support the ideas that you like. The longer the 21 applause goes the less time it is for more people. I 22 just want to make that an awareness. Im not saying 23 dont do it --
24 PARTICIPANT: People know that here. They 25 know that. They live here. They speak regularly.
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24 1 MR. BIDWELL: Excellent.
2 MS. ODONNELL: As a State Representative 3 from this town, I think its only fair that everyones 4 voice be heard. Now, Id like it to be known strongly 5 that although I havent polled the Town the Vernon, I 6 have heard from people in Guilford, and I support an 7 independent assessment.
8 (Applause.)
9 MS. ODONNELL: But I also want it to be 10 known that this town strongly supports Vermont Yankee.
11 They work here. You know, your voice can be heard 12 when its your turn. Its my turn now. We hear an 13 awful lot about diversity and tolerance. Well, 14 theres more than one opinion here. And I also want 15 it to be known that there arent a whole lot of people 16 from Vernon here, for one reason. Because for 30 17 years weve lived with this, and the Vermont way is 18 not to be rude to people. The Vermont way is to 19 listen to everyones side, and I ask you, please, when 20 youre in this town please be respectful of everyones 21 voice. Thank you.
22 (Applause.)
23 MS. FARABAUGH: Thank you. Peggy 24 Farabough, F-A-R-A--B-A-U-G-H, Select person in 25 Vernon. And thank you for giving me a chance to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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25 1 speak. I do live in Vernon and I feel like youre 2 trying to shut me out. We host this town. A lot of 3 our neighbors and friends work for Vermont Yankee.
4 Its an integral part of our town. We understand the 5 safety issues at Vermont Yankee. We support Vermont 6 Yankee very largely. Over 91 percent of the people 7 polled in Vernon support Vermont Yankee.
8 I personally do not think that we need 9 another independent safety assessment. The NRC 10 conducts two. I dont think thats what this meeting 11 is about. I think this meeting is about putting any 12 kind of a roadblock in front of the progress of any 13 kind of a nuclear power plant. And I think that 14 youve chosen the wrong venue for that.
15 I feel I have -- I am a mother of two 16 children who go to school here, I live here, my 17 children go to school right across from the plant. I 18 have confidence in the people who are operating the 19 plant and in the NRC and in the record of the nuclear 20 power industry over the last many years.
21 You dont see a lot of people from Vernon 22 here, one, because they dont enjoy this type of 23 entertainment. And if they want to know about the 24 issues regarding nuclear power, they will do it in a 25 more technical forum. The other reason you dont see NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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26 1 a lot of people from Vernon here is because when we 2 stand up and try to speak, look at the way we get 3 treated. Theres not a lot of respect in this room.
4 Patty was the first person who asked to get up and 5 voice an opinion that was different from the mobs 6 opinion, and look how you have treated her and how 7 youve treated me.
8 So we do support Vermont Yankee, and I 9 dont support the independent safety assessment.
10 Thank you.
11 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Yes, let her speak.
12 Hold on a second. Not everybody can speak all at 13 once, and I know you folks want to ask us questions, 14 okay. So how -- you want the Representative to speak?
15 Go ahead. Thank you.
16 MS. EDWARDS: Thank you. My name is Sarah 17 Edwards, Im a Representative from Brattleboro in the 18 House. Sarah Edwards from Brattleboro. Im a 19 Representative in the House in Vermont. We have a 20 resolution right now that I have 83 members have 21 signed from the House from all parties of the 150 22 seats that are available in the House. And this 23 resolution supports the ruling of the Public Service 24 Board, and I wanted you all to know that there is an 25 attempt to get the House backing to be on board with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1 all the other people who have spoken tonight with 2 regard to the uprate and to the independent 3 engineering assessment. And Ill be testifying on 4 this tomorrow, and I hope that I can report back to 5 you that were in agreement with the Public Service 6 Board and the Department of Public Service as well as 7 our congressional delegation. Thank you.
8 (Applause.)
9 MR. BIDWELL: Thank you all. What I want 10 to do now is NRC would like to make a couple of 11 points. Theyre key points about the assessment 12 process and how that reflects what some of the other 13 parties have requested. Then we want to move into the 14 audience and make sure that you all have a chance to 15 say why that is or is not adequate, what are the other 16 points that you want to see and to express your views.
17 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Thank you. A number of 18 representatives, public officials have talked about 19 the independent safety assessment, and I see just a 20 few signs of people urging support for an independent 21 safety assessment.
22 As you know -- it does keep the place 23 cool. As you know, the Senators Leahy and Jeffords --
24 we responded, the NRC responded to Senators Leahy and 25 Jeffords in a recent letter, and we stated why the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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28 1 Main Yankee independent safety assessment experience 2 is not applicable to Vermont Yankees power uprate 3 application. The Senators letters and the NRCs 4 response mentioned the public request for Vermont 5 Yankee to undergo the same type of ISA that was 6 performed at Maine Yankee in 1966.
7 It is the NRCs position that the letter 8 to the Senators does not represent the Agencys 9 position on the Vermont Public Service Boards 10 conditional approval of the Vermont Yankee uprate. It 11 does not represent. As you know, we also have a 12 letter, as a matter of fact it was dated today, from 13 both Senators Jeffords and Leahy basically, 14 reiterating that the PSB has not received a written 15 response from the NRC on its independent engineering 16 assessment request, and theyre requesting the NRC to 17 issue a letter to the Public Service Board 18 expeditiously. The NRC staff will do that. So we are 19 going to issue a response to the Public Service Board 20 regarding their request. So we havent done that, 21 okay, but we will.
22 Weve heard a lot of folks clamoring --
23 thats probably the right word -- for an independent 24 safety assessment. We recognize that. At this stage, 25 our thinking is, okay, that, one, at this point that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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29 1 the Agencys normal oversight and uprate review 2 process we believe appears to provide information that 3 coincides with the PSBs concerns. And let me list 4 them a little bit.
5 NRC and independent contractors have 6 inspected Vermont Yankees design and licensing basis 7 several times since Maine Yankees ISA. Now, theres 8 a lot of talk about what is an independent review.
9 Well, first of all, the NRC is an independent 10 regulatory agency established by Congress. David 11 Lochbaum, somebody that testified at the PSB from the 12 Union of Concerned Scientists, argued that independent 13 was folks that didnt have normal regulatory oversight 14 of a plant. Well, the NRC performed such an 15 inspection. It was called the architect engineer 16 inspection. The NRC performed that inspection. It 17 was not performed by the local regional office, it was 18 run from headquarters, it was run with contractors.
19 Those folks did not have routine 20 regulatory oversight of the Vermont Yankee Nuclear 21 Power Plant, and if you actually looked at the 22 independent safety assessment that youre clamoring 23 for, the NRC ran that, a guy by the name of Ellis 24 Merschoff ran that assessment. It was run with NRC 25 folks, it was run with NRC contractors, and there were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 1 some state observers. But the independent safety 2 assessment was run by the NRC. However, Mr. Merschoff 3 did not report to the regional office, he reported to 4 headquarters, he reported to the Chairman. And weve 5 done that, okay? We have done an architect engineer 6 inspection at Vermont Yankee, and the staff believes 7 that not only have we done that, we continue to 8 perform what we believe, Im not asking you to believe 9 it, what we believe are independent assessments of 10 Vermont Yankees engineering work. Thats the first 11 point Id like to make.
12 The second point, the NRC does not issue 13 decisions on the plant reliability specifically.
14 However, plant reliability, we believe, is closely 15 related to plant safety. Its not exactly the same 16 but its closely related. The NRCs power uprate 17 process reviews the reliability of the modifications 18 that the plant is performing and we consider that in 19 our reliability review. So we do do a safety review 20 and we examine reliability as part of that.
21 In August of this year, the NRC will 22 conduct its every other year safety design inspection 23 at Vermont requiring several inspectors to perform 24 over 500 hours0.00579 days <br />0.139 hours <br />8.267196e-4 weeks <br />1.9025e-4 months <br /> worth of direct inspections of 1 and 2 25 systems. Our power uprate review process, which were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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31 1 going to talk about briefly, that process examines 2 equipment modifications and every system that is 3 important to the safety of a power uprate. This 4 review covers both the actual safety systems and the 5 non-safety systems.
6 If any portion of these inspections 7 identify a problem, we go after it. Our inspection 8 program, we believe, is robust and its flexible.
9 Weve shown the ability to respond to safety issues, 10 and I believe were going to respond again.
11 So those are our thoughts right now. We 12 havent responded yet to the Public Service Board, and 13 you have my commitment that were going to do that.
14 Clearly, you folks are passionate about this issue, 15 and I feel that passion. Thank you.
16 (Audience shouting.)
17 Again, lets afford the staff to make a 18 few key points. Tony McMurtray on power uprate 19 process.
20 (Audience shouting.)
21 MR. BIDWELL: Let me step in, okay? Hold 22 on. Hold on. The NRC has come. They want to give 23 the points of what their process is, and then they 24 want to hear your reactions to that process.
25 (Audience shouting.)
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32 1 MR. BIDWELL: Right now were burning 2 time, okay?
3 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Were going to be back, 4 okay? We are going to be back, we are going to have 5 another meeting further on the review process. You 6 have my promise on that, okay?
7 (Audience shouting.)
8 CHAIRMAN RULAND: We have not made up our 9 mind.
10 MR. McMURTRAY: Good evening. My names 11 Tony McMurtray. Bill introduced me. I work at NRC 12 headquarters. I just relocated to headquarters last 13 summer. Before that I spent nine years as a resident 14 inspector, approximately six years I was a senior 15 resident inspector at Peach Bottom, which is down in 16 Pennsylvania. Its a similar vintage BWR. Im 17 currently in the Division of Licensing Management at 18 headquarters, and I am in charge of the overview for 19 the power uprate process.
20 Some real quick points. Our power uprate 21 reviews are significant licensing actions and receive 22 a high amount of attention from the NRC Commission and 23 senior agency management. We now have a review 24 standard. This is our review standard. It took over 25 two years to develop this standard. This standard is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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33 1 to guide the staff, utilities and public to the extent 2 of our reviews. The plant owner must provide 3 sufficient justification to the NRC that safety is 4 maintained under power uprate conditions.
5 As Bill mentioned, the NRC staff reviews 6 every system that is important to maintaining public 7 health and safety that is impacted by the proposed 8 power uprate. Vermont Yankee is the first plant 9 requesting an extended power uprate that we are using 10 this new review standard to guide the staffs NRC 11 review.
12 And in closing, we believe that our power 13 uprate process is a structured, robust, comprehensive 14 process focused on safety and captures lessons learned 15 from each uprate to improve later reviews. However, 16 we welcome your comments on our review standard and 17 our review process, and our web site is available in 18 the handout, so please get them. We would have those 19 on the slide. Thank you.
20 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Thank you, Tony. Stu 21 Richards, you want to just briefly talk?
22 MR. RICHARDS: Very briefly, Im Stu 23 Richards, Im from Washington and Im responsible for 24 the Inspection Program. A couple of points to make 25 for tonight, we have a robust inspection program. I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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34 1 think a couple of people have mentioned that before.
2 We do inspect the engineering at Vermont Yankee and 3 all plants across the nation, and I think we do a 4 pretty robust job of doing that. And as part of the 5 power uprate process, there will be issues that come 6 out of the technical reviews, and well factor those 7 into our Inspection Program. Thank you.
8 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Thank you, Stu. And, 9 finally, Rick Ennis, our Senior Project Manager. Hes 10 going to talk a little bit about the specific review 11 were doing on Vermont. Rick?
12 MR. ENNIS: My name is Rick Ennis, and Im 13 the Project Manager responsible for review of the 14 power uprate for Vermont Yankee at NRC headquarters in 15 Maryland. Im going to give you a quick status of 16 where we are in the review.
17 The forecast completion date of our review 18 is January 31, 2005 and thats documented in our 19 letter to Entergy, dated February 20. Although were 20 very early in the review stages, weve already 21 provided 60 technical questions to Entergy regarding 22 the specifics of the review, which Entergy has 23 responded to in a letter dated January 31 2004.
24 The next major milestone in the process 25 will be for the NRC to issue a Federal Register notice NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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35 1 to docket acceptance of the application for review.
2 This notice will be posted on the NRCs web site. The 3 Federal Register notice provides an opportunity for 4 the public to request a hearing on the proposed 5 amendment. And based on recent changes to the NRCs 6 regulations, the hearing process now extends the 7 period to request a hearing from 30 days to 60 days 8 after the notice is issued. Its expected that this 9 notice will be issued sometime in April.
10 The public may also provide comments to 11 the NRC regarding the proposed amendment outside of 12 the hearing process. The staff will consider those 13 comments during the course of the review, and this 14 meeting is one of the opportunities for you to provide 15 comments to us.
16 Theres many technical areas that we look 17 as part of the power uprate process, and I just want 18 to touch on two issues that are very high focus areas 19 at this time. Several plants have experienced 20 problems with steam dryer cracking following 21 implementation of a power uprate. Although the steam 22 dryer performs a non-safety-related function, the 23 dryer must maintain its structural integrity to avoid 24 loose parts from entering the reactor vessel or steam 25 lines and adversely affecting plant operation. In NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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36 1 addition, theres also been other problems related to 2 flow vibration issues that have caused damage to 3 valves and pipe supports following a power uprate.
4 The steam dryer integrity and flow induced 5 vibration issues are receiving a very high level of 6 attention by the NRC and the nuclear industry, and 7 these are probably the two biggest technical 8 challenges associated with power uprates at this time.
9 Additional interaction between the NRC 10 staff, Entergy and Entergys contractor, General 11 Electric, is expected on these issues. These 12 interactions may include requests for additional 13 information, on-site audits of General Electric and 14 public meetings so that we receive information that 15 demonstrates that safety will be maintained at the 16 proposed uprate conditions.
17 As I mentioned earlier, I just want to 18 emphasis that the NRC staff is in the very early 19 stages of the technical review. Much more work still 20 needs to be done before the NRC staff can come to any 21 conclusions regarding acceptability of the Vermont 22 Yankee request. This amendment will not be approved 23 unless we are satisfied that safety will be assured.
24 As Mr. Ruland mentioned, we will be back for another 25 public meeting after we are further along in the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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37 1 technical review. Thank you.
2 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Thank you, Rick.
3 (Applause.)
4 MR. BIDWELL: Finally, right, the moment 5 that youve been waiting for. Let me say just a 6 couple more words, all right? One is please try to 7 keep your comments to the key point just so that as 8 many people as possible get an opportunity to talk.
9 The school district has asked us to finish at 11, 10 okay? So that does leave -- youve got an hour and 50 11 minutes. The other thing is that when a question is 12 actually posed to NRC, I ask that you let them have a 13 couple of moments to try to answer that, all right?
14 The questions will be fielded by Bill, and if there is 15 a more appropriate staff person to comment on that, 16 hell ask them to say a couple of words, all right?
17 Many people have come up and asked me to 18 be first. I cant let 50 people go first, but Im 19 going to start over here and then when hes done Ill 20 be moving around through the room.
21 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Why dont you let Paul 22 talk first? Paul, want to talk? Okay. Fine. Thank 23 you.
24 MR. GUNDERSON: My name is Arty Gunderson.
25 Im a teacher in Burlington of math. Prior to that I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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38 1 had a bachelors and masters degree in nuclear 2 reactor operators license, and I was the Senior Vice 3 President of a nuclear firm. I was the New England 4 Coalitions expert witness during these hearings. In 5 that capacity, I looked at over 100,000 documents.
6 Id like to share four pages with you tonight.
7 My review of non-proprietary emails and 8 telecons provided by Entergy during the discovery 9 process I discovered documents that seemed to indicate 10 a disturbing pattern of collusion between Entergy, 11 General Electric and the NRC. These same documents --
12 Ill be quick -- these same documents also appeared to 13 demonstrate significant efforts by high levels of 14 General Electric to intimidate the NRC into approving 15 its generic safety uprate evaluation report. Ive got 16 the documents here. I will give them not to the NRC 17 tonight but to our Congressmen. Let me continue.
18 I discovered emails and telephone notes 19 from the NRC to Entergy where the NRC said that 20 General Electric is licensing the project on the 21 cheap. I discovered that General Electric -- that the 22 NRC told Entergy that G.E., quote, "assumes the staff 23 can reach conclusions on public safety without having 24 adequate analysis." The documents also showed, more 25 disturbing still, that NRC told Entergy that G.E. had NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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39 1 a piecemeal safety analysis. It gets worse.
2 The NRC then began to beg Entergy to 3 quote, "have a heart to heart," with General Electric 4 so that they could answer these technical questions.
5 And, finally, the NRC told Entergy that G.E. wasnt 6 being honest with them. Hello. You guys are the 7 regulators, you guys are in charge. You dont have to 8 whine to Entergy to get General Electric to do their 9 job. It gets worse.
10 Entergy then told General Electric about 11 this. Instead of addressing the NRCs technical 12 concerns, General Electric dispatched its Vice 13 President to go around the reviewers to their senior 14 management. When that failed, the documents show that 15 that Vice President went to the Commissioners, and --
16 I cant believe this -- the General Electric VP let it 17 be known that he was, quote, "going to go for their 18 jugular." Thats a curious use of words, and it 19 reflects a dangerous level of contempt and disdain by 20 both General Electric and Entergy for the NRCs 21 supposed regulatory role.
22 Despite not being honest, G.E. got what 23 they asked for. To a former insider like me, its no 24 surprise that the NRC would cave to this type of 25 industry pressure. Its via closed door meetings like NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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40 1 the ones indicated in these telecons, which Ill give 2 to our Senators tonight, its via closed door meetings 3 that the NRC was persuaded by G.E. and Entergy to look 4 the other way so that Entergy may avoid basic safety 5 guidelines line net positive suction head. Its 6 simple: The NRC agrees to look the other way, G.E.
7 gets more business, Entergy gets more profits. You 8 are not here to protect the public, youre here to 9 protect the industry from the public.
10 (Applause.)
11 MR. GUNDERSON: I read another 99,996 12 pages, Im unable to discuss them in two minutes, and, 13 unfortunately, youll never give me the opportunity to 14 talk to you because youre not allowing Mr. Blanch and 15 I into the process despite the fact that weve got 70 16 years of experience between us. We have never 17 attempted to intimidate you, weve never attempted to 18 go for your jugular. The NRCs outright rejection of 19 our expertise forces us to go to Senator Jeffords and 20 Senator Leahy with formal allegations based on this 21 collusion which Ive got the evidence for.
22 (Applause.)
23 MR. BIDWELL: All right. Thank you.
24 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Lets talk a little bit 25 about the NRCs allegation process.
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41 1 (Audience shouting.)
2 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Well, let me respond.
3 MR. BIDWELL: Please let NRC respond, and 4 then we will move to the --
5 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Let me respond.
6 (Audience shouting.)
7 MR. BIDWELL: Wait, wait, wait, wait, 8 wait, wait, wait.
9 PARTICIPANT: That was not a question.
10 That was not a question. Would you all agree that was 11 not a question?
12 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Paul, could you give --
13 do me a favor, could you give the mike to Paul, 14 please?
15 MR. BLANCH: Im Paul Blanch. Please give 16 Mr. Ruland a chance to respond in a calm manner. He 17 has a right to briefly respond to the questions.
18 Please respect Mr. Ruland.
19 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Thank you, Paul. Thank 20 you. First of all, this is not your mothers meeting.
21 Im not sure this is the kind of meeting I thought 22 this was going to be before it started, but I 23 appreciate -- again, I just wanted to say I appreciate 24 the passion and the information were getting.
25 The NRC is really here, because were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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42 1 recording it, to address these issues and to address 2 them clearly, okay? Thats why were taking the notes 3 here for this meeting. The NRC has two processes that 4 we use to address the very kind of issue that we heard 5 today. Frankly, I dont know the details behind this 6 matter, but were going to find out. The NRC has an 7 allegation process that we go through. We examine 8 what the allegation is, we go out and do inspections, 9 and we try to get to the root of the problem and try 10 to determine it and try to take some action. If its 11 an allegation against NRC staff and potential 12 wrongdoing, the NRC also has a process for that, and 13 we have an independent Inspector General that we refer 14 these things to. We do this frequently and all the 15 time. Its part of the NRC culture, okay? And its 16 part of the NRC culture to examine these problems and 17 look introspectively to try to understand what they 18 are. Thank you.
19 MR. BLANCH: Thank you. My name is Paul 20 Blanche. I have more than 35 years of nuclear 21 experience. And just to carry on with what Bill said, 22 I have a prepared statement. Its probably longer 23 than I want to read and Im going to shorten it down, 24 but in response to the statement that Mr. Ruland just 25 made, Ive already contacted the Inspector Generals NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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43 1 Office this afternoon and turned over these issues of 2 wrongdoing. Theyre contained also in my statement, 3 and I, again, want to allow other people time to 4 express their concerns and issues, so Im shortening 5 up my presentation. I have given some of the copies 6 to the NRC and also some of the media.
7 Mr. Gunderson and I actually support VYs 8 current nuclear power output, and if the safety 9 concerns of Vermonts residents and those surrounding 10 states are examined and addressed, we may even support 11 a power upgrade at Vermont Yankee. We both believe 12 that nuclear plants can be operated safely but only if 13 proper reviews are conducted to todays more stringent 14 safety requirements and if complete evaluation of the 15 risk associated with VYs regulatory non-compliances 16 if conducted.
17 We could support the upgrade if, and only 18 if, the NRC and Entergy are willing to talk about 19 nuclear safety in an open, collaborative and candid 20 manner with us and members of the public. Tonight is 21 not the forum for that. I was extremely troubled when 22 I learned that the NRC, Entergy and G.E. continue 23 negotiating nuclear safety behind closed doors as 24 documented by Entergy in its confidential and 25 privileged documentation of phone conversations NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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44 1 between Entergy, the NRC, General Electric. General 2 Electric even made veiled threats to the 3 Commissioners. Is this regulatory agency that we rely 4 on to assess nuclear safety when the nuclear industry 5 can have free access to the Commissioners and 6 influence the Commissioners with threats and 7 intimidation? Is intimidation part of the NRCs 8 regulatory process?
9 A few year ago Mr. Gunderson were invited 10 by the government of the Czech Republic to review 11 safety issues for two proposed nuclear power plants.
12 This former Soviet state facilitated public dialogue 13 with us in open and cordial meetings. These open 14 forums included utility, the media, SUJB, which is the 15 NRC equivalent, and the general public. We were even 16 provided tours of all the nuclear facilities in order 17 for us to more fully examine public questions and 18 thoroughly address safety concerns.
19 Contrast as positive with the opposition 20 contempt and disdain we have received in the U.S. from 21 both Entergy and the NRC. We have raised significant 22 safety issues related to Vermont Yankee. Mr.
23 Chairman, raised them four months ago. No response.
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45 1 for the sole purpose of personally discrediting, 2 demeaning and slandering me. To that end, Entergy 3 attempted to discredit my nuclear experience, diminish 4 my educational background and imply that I was 5 unfamiliar with NRC regulations. Im going to shorten 6 this up now because Im taking too much time.
7 In my concluding statement, I just want to 8 say that those of us involved with the technical 9 expertise and the willingness to speak out will be 10 involved in the safe resolution of these issues and 11 will continue to make our voices public no matter how 12 often you attempt to silence us. The choice is up to 13 Entergy and the NRC, that choice being one of 14 collaboration or a continued adversarial relationship.
15 Thank you very much.
16 (Applause.)
17 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Thank you, Paul. Paul 18 and I go way back. What is it the 80s, Paul?
19 Personally, from what I have observed in the NRC, what 20 I heard tonight is foreign. I have not seen this 21 behavior, okay, so this is new to me. Its something 22 that the NRC is going to treat seriously. I 23 personally dont think I have ever tried to silence 24 our critics. Our critics are important to me. It is 25 what helps us make us better.
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46 1 Ive talked to Paul on many occasions, 2 Ive talked to David Lochbaum, and sometimes what they 3 tell us its not nice and its not easy to hear, but 4 we do that, and I personally have done that. Its 5 something weve got to take to heart. Its one of the 6 lessons I think that the NRC tries to learn and 7 continues to learn about listening to our critics. I 8 think were going to continue to do that. So next 9 person. Mr. Bidwell?
10 MR. BIDWELL: Were going back here to the 11 bleachers.
12 MR. DOUD: My name is Louise Doud. Thats 13 spelled D-O-U-D, not D-O-W-D, please, D-O-U-D. I live 14 in Warwick, Massachusetts. Ive come with some 15 friends and we left many people at home because we had 16 a cherished member of our community die yesterday and 17 many people are not here because theyre at his 18 calling hours.
19 I want to say something about process 20 before I ask my very brief question, which I then like 21 to be able to respond to after I get an answer to it, 22 which is that I think its quite understandable the 23 energy in this room and the outbursts since it after 24 nine oclock when significant openness about having 25 members of the audience make comments finally was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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47 1 reached. And I want to give you that observation. I 2 dont many people in this room have distinguished 3 between the first hearing and the second hearing.
4 People came because they were interested in finding 5 out what is happening and to express their opinion, 6 and the signs and the short responses are what most of 7 us have had up until now. It is now 25 after nine and 8 the meeting started at seven.
9 So Id love to talk to you, Mr.
10 Facilitator because I have a number of -- having done 11 facilitation work in my own life, I have a number of 12 suggestions. I will get on with it. My question is 13 what was the original design life of this nuclear 14 reactor across the road? And then I would like to be 15 able to ask a question after I get an answer to that.
16 CHAIRMAN RULAND: The original licensed 17 life of the plant was 40 years.
18 MR. DOUD: It was designed for 40 years.
19 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Thats correct.
20 MR. DOUD: Thank you.
21 CHAIRMAN RULAND: No, no. Thats the 22 licensed life of the plant.
23 MR. DOUD: That would be the longest 24 design life Ive heard about in the early reactors.
25 Can you get a more specific answer on that?
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48 1 MR. RICHARDS: Just briefly, the plant was 2 licensed for 40 years. We have a process by which 3 plants that can demonstrate it appropriate they can 4 renew their license for up to 20 years. The design of 5 each of the components is based on the original 6 engineering that went into that component, so you 7 cant say the plant was designed for 40 years. We 8 licensed it for 40 years.
9 MR. DOUD: You licensed it for 40 years 10 based on design criteria that would say that each 11 component would last at least 40 years?
12 MR. RICHARDS: No. We licensed the plant 13 for 40 years based on initial submittal of their 14 licensing request recognizing that over that 40-year 15 period of time there would be a large number of 16 inspections that the utility would do, that we would 17 do, that there would be inspections, maintenance, 18 replacement of components. So its not the 19 expectation that you build a plant and then it lasts 20 as built for 40 years.
21 CHAIRMAN RULAND: You had a follow-up 22 question?
23 MR. DOUD: Its not a -- just that 32 24 years is awfully close to that, and Im really 25 wondering how we can imagine a safe -- the continued NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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49 1 safe operation with an uprate happening at the same 2 time.
3 CHAIRMAN RULAND: I understand.
4 Essentially, the question is how can this plant last 5 much longer than 32 years? The NRCs requirements 6 that the licensee must comply with requires them to do 7 surveillance testing, requires them to do in-service 8 inspection of all the important safety-related 9 equipment. Licensees, as a result of that, in Vermont 10 Yankee replace equipment if they dont meet our 11 requirements. We dont permit licensees to operate 12 their plant without meeting those requirements that 13 are in place for them.
14 This Licensee, as part of their power 15 uprate, is replacing a number of components. The 16 plant has feedwater heaters that heat the water prior 17 to going into the reactor. Essentially, all of those 18 have been replaced. A number of safety pumps will be 19 replaced, okay? So there is a number of processes 20 that the NRC has in place to make sure that the 21 plants equipment operates appropriately. Mr.
22 Bidwell.
23 MR. BIDWELL: Thank you. Let me just --
24 one more little thing, okay? This is -- wait. This 25 is not a hearing. Its an opportunity to have an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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50 1 actual answer from NRC, and thats what were trying 2 to provide an opportunity for.
3 MR. SHADIS: Thank you. I guarantee to 4 make this brief. I have to disagree with you, Stu, 5 with respect to the design life of the plant.
6 Documents surrendered to us in this process before the 7 Vermont Public Service Board after two orders 8 compelling Vermont Yankee to hand over the documents 9 reveal that, yes, they believe they have a 40-year 10 design life, and those particular documents were 11 signed by Jay Thayer, the CNO here.
12 So, no, they believe they have a 40-year 13 design life, and in fact, as you know, the principal 14 components of this plant, which will never be 15 replaced, such as the reactor vessel, are designed for 16 a limited number of thermal cycles. And when you put 17 an equation to it, it turns out to be 40 years. What 18 is going on now is an attempt to pencil away all of 19 those original limitations.
20 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Mr. Shadis mentioned the 21 reactor vessel. The NRC has specific requirements and 22 a specific rule that requires those reactor vessels to 23 meet to make sure that theyre safe. Those 24 requirements apply to Vermont Yankee, and the instant 25 the Licensee doesnt meet those requirements the plant NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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51 1 will be shut down. Mr. Bidwell, where are you?
2 Hello?
3 MR. BLAZEY: Im Colin Blazey. Im from 4 Windham, Vermont. I lived in Brookline, Vermont when 5 the plant was built. My neighbor died building the 6 plant. And the whole key issue that I dont 7 understand in this whole uprate question is in terms 8 of being civil, how can it be civil to continue to 9 make more non-disposable nuclear waste? If you cant 10 answer that simple question, what are you going to do 11 with the waste, nothing that you can say technically 12 can even possibly hold a candle to that major safety 13 question.
14 (Applause.)
15 MR. BIDWELL: Does the NRC have a comment?
16 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Yes, I do. Thank you.
17 The Licensee right now stores their fuel in the spent 18 fuel pool. Its safe in the spent fuel pool. Okay?
19 Its safe in the spent fuel pool. The Licensee, if 20 they run out of capacity in that spent fuel pool, they 21 will not be able to operate the plant any longer if 22 theyve run out of capacity. What they would need to 23 do is apply for a license or either take -- do that or 24 a general license to get dry cask storage. And weve 25 given a general license for dry cask storage. We NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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52 1 believe thats safe. Weve licensed those casks.
2 Theyre extremely robust devices. And I think those 3 licenses go on for, what, 20 years? A 20-year license 4 for those dry cask storage. Im confident that thats 5 a safe alternative.
6 And the Department of Energy right now, as 7 you know, is preparing to do a submittal for the Yucca 8 Mountain storage, so the Department of Energy is 9 preparing the submittal, and when that submittal comes 10 in, the NRC will review it. Mr. Bidwell, where are 11 you?
12 MR. BIDWELL: Im over here.
13 MR. FELDMAN: My name is Ira Feldman. Im 14 an emergency room doctor for Cooley Dickinson Hospital 15 in Northampton, Massachusetts. Thats about 35 miles 16 from here and well within the zone that would be 17 contaminated if you have a major reactor accident at 18 this plant. I want you to know my hospital has worked 19 very hard to look at disaster preparation and my 20 emergency room cannot deal with the casualties that 21 would be produced by an accident at this plant, nor 22 can the emergency room at Greenfield or the emergency 23 room in Keene or the emergency room in Brattleboro.
24 In the medical profession, we have a 25 guiding principle of first do no harm, which means NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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53 1 that before you expose the population to a technology 2 youre obliged to prove that its safe. I think 3 thats a principle that ought to be applied in this 4 situation as well. This reactor isnt safe, its very 5 dangerous. Ever since September 11 we have understood 6 clearly that our nuclear power reactors are, in a 7 sense, weapons of mass destruction which we have built 8 and sited around our country and left there waiting 9 for terrorists to activate, and it is time for us to 10 understand that.
11 If we found a group of Islamic 12 fundamentalists out in the woods building something 13 like Vermont Yankee, we would think we had stumbled 14 the mother of all al-Qaida plots and we would arrest 15 them as terrorists and throw them in jail. But a 16 nuclear power company gets to build these kinds of 17 reactors, and now Entergy wants to make this plant 18 even more dangerous by upgrading its production beyond 19 what it was supposed to tolerate.
20 The very least that we can ask is that 21 there be a complete safety (Applause.) before this 22 happens. There should not be an upgrade here. This 23 plant should not be upgraded. It shouldnt be allowed 24 to operate. It should be shutdown, and we should 25 focus all of our energy on making the containment as NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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54 1 secure as we can around the huge pile of spent fuel 2 rods that have already been generated so that those 3 cant become a weapon in the hands of terrorists as 4 well.
5 And I think its time for the Nuclear 6 Regulatory Commission to meet its responsibilities to 7 protect the public, not to protect the industry its 8 supposed to regulate. Thank you.
9 (Applause.)
10 MR. FELDMAN: Just one thing I wanted to 11 say: Thats a comment, not a question, and I would 12 prefer if you didnt answer so that other people have 13 a chance to talk. Thank you.
14 MR. BIDWELL: I think that it behooves us 15 to have an opportunity for NRC to lay out its side of 16 the story as well. This is an opportunity -- it is an 17 opportunity. Bill, would you like to respond? Very 18 briefly, please.
19 CHAIRMAN RULAND: Brian, go ahead.
20 MR. KEEFE: No, just briefly, some people 21 might not be aware of answers in that vein. Post 9/11 22 the agency has gotten hundreds of questions about 23 security of the plants, not just what theyve done 24 historically when we licensed them, but in the post 25 9/11 environment, how can you continue to maintain NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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55 1 that the plants are safe?
2 We have received those questions. There 3 was a fax sheet that probably just 100 or 150 were 4 available here on security, post 9/11 security orders 5 that have been performed by the NRC.
6 Briefly, thats available there, and its 7 available on the Website. The NRC has done a top to 8 bottom security review and looked at vulnerability 9 assessments for some of the very similar issues that 10 hes raised.
11 The NRC has the ability to issue orders.
12 We have done issues -- weve issued orders on 13 overtime, on access authorization and other issues.
14 The NRC has the ability should they see 15 vulnerabilities to issue upgrades. So that is 16 something that at the Commission is being reviewed, 17 and there is more information on that.
18 MR. BIDWELL: Okay. Were going to move 19 up here.
20 MR. ALEXANDER: Thank you. My name is 21 Peter Alexander. Im the Executive Director of the 22 New England Coalition.
23 (Applause.)
24 MR. ALEXANDER: First, I want to thank you 25 folks for coming out and giving a message to these NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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56 1 folks that they can take back to Washington. We want 2 an independent safety assessment.
3 (Applause.)
4 MR. ALEXANDER: I also want to thank 5 Senator McDonald for introducing Senate Resolution 6 S.R. 21 and having the courage to steer it through and 7 the political savvy to steer it through and to the 8 Senate who voted unanimously for independent they call 9 it engineering assessment, but its a safety 10 assessment, and it is the criteria outlined in that 11 resolution which we believe will inform a proper job 12 so that we can feel that the plant has been carefully 13 and properly examined.
14 I want to read into the record the 15 editorial that Raymond Shadis and I wrote, and it was 16 published in todays Brattleboro Reformer. I think it 17 says very well a lot more than what I can say in a few 18 minutes that are given to me here.
19 I want to just say my message to you is 20 real simple. Were not deceived. We will not accept 21 anything less than a full, independent safety 22 assessment at Vermont Yankee. Were not fooled by 23 Entergys tricks, and were not fooled by the NRCs 24 misrepresentations about your extended power uprate 25 review process.
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57 1 Your agency left the staff of our 2 congressional delegation with the misapprehension that 3 your uprate review process was informed by and, 4 therefore, by inference, was as good as the 5 independent safety assessment conducted at Maine 6 Yankee in 1996. Thats clear. I mean, its clearly 7 spelled out in Jeffords letter and Leahys letter 8 that that was the misapprehension they were left with 9 after talking with your staff.
10 This misapprehension was memorialized in 11 that letter to Chairman Nils Diaz. The very afternoon 12 that the letter was written it found its way into the 13 hands of Entergy, which lost no time in using it to 14 try to deceive the Public Service Board and the 15 Vermont legislature into thinking that the extended 16 power uprate review process was the same as or as good 17 as an independent safety assessment.
18 From that point on Entergys spokespeople 19 even co-opted the term "independent safety 20 assessment," stating publicly and in the media that 21 the NRCs extended power uprate review process 22 constituted not one, but two independent safety 23 assessments.
24 Ill just be another minute, David.
25 I want to say, David, youre a really nice NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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58 1 guy, but I think youre a really lousy facilitator.
2 Im sorry.
3 (Applause.)
4 MR. ALEXANDER: Fortunately, the Vermont 5 State Senate was not fooled by the letter or by 6 Entergys lobbyists. Jerry Morris, who used it to try 7 to convince the legislature that an ISA was not 8 needed, the Senate voted unanimously to pass their 9 request for an independent engineering assessment, and 10 they defined it properly.
11 I think there are many people here tonight 12 from several states around the region who resent the 13 fact that Entergy and the NRC have been playing word 14 games with us.
15 (Applause.)
16 MR. ALEXANDER: And Ill just say thats 17 a very nice way to put it.
18 If you want to establish even a semblance 19 of public trust, then come clean on this devious 20 deception. Hold your staff and Entergy Corporation 21 publicly accountable for misleading the Senate staff, 22 the Public Service Board, the state legislature, the 23 people of Vermont, and all of New England.
24 Finally, I want to let you know that as 25 far as the New England Coalition is concerned, this NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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59 1 process is just starting. We have dedicated ourselves 2 to preventing this uprate, and we are confident that 3 when an independent safety assessment is conducted at 4 Vermont Yankee, that plant will fail miserably.
5 If you want to convince us otherwise, then 6 give us the real thing. We want an independent safety 7 assessment.
8 Thank you.
9 (Applause.)
10 MR. RULAND: You know, the reason were 11 here is to try to explain what were doing and to take 12 your comments, digest them, take them back with us, 13 and thats what were going to do. Okay.
14 I object to any accusation about the NRC 15 misrepresenting to Congress. I was part of those 16 phone calls. I talked personally. Okay? We did not 17 misrepresent anything to the Senate staff, and we just 18 didnt do that. Okay?
19 So lets just let -- I think you want to 20 make some comments. Id like to just go ahead, and 21 rather than respond individually to particular 22 comments, Id just like to go ahead, and if we could, 23 everybody just get a couple of minutes, make a 24 comment, and for at least about the next half hour or 25 so, lets just have some comments.
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60 1 Mr. Bidwell, are you there?
2 MR. BIDWELL: Well see if folks have 3 specific questions that they want a response from you.
4 They should indicate that as well.
5 MR. RULAND: Okay. Thank you.
6 MR. DIZINSKI: My name is Peter Dizinski.
7 Im from the Town of Leyden, representing the Planning 8 Board for the Town of Leyden.
9 Were well within the ten mile radius of 10 this plant in the neighboring State of Massachusetts, 11 and we have very little say in the internal affairs of 12 the State of Vermont, but we are very concerned 13 because of the dangers that this potential uprate 14 poses to our community.
15 Number one, Im very concerned as to why 16 the corporation at this time is asking for -- and this 17 I want an answer to -- an uprate on an aging plant.
18 Is it purely for the profit motive? Is that whats 19 behind it?
20 I cant understand how you can ask an old 21 plant to put out more than it was designed to in the 22 first place. I certainly cant run as fast as I used 23 to, and I dont think any of you can.
24 The point of the matter is that as a 25 neighboring community, we have part-time police, part-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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61 1 time fire department, part-time personnel in all of 2 our offices that have to do with the public safety, 3 and there is no way that we can be warned in time of 4 any kind of catastrophe.
5 Many of us work in the fields of 6 agriculture or in the woods. Far and away, we have no 7 sirens in our town. We have the monitors that are at 8 our homes, but were not always there. Our police 9 work in other towns far away. Who are we to rely on 10 if this uprate goes through and this thing melts down?
11 Thank you.
12 (Applause.)
13 MR. RICHARDS: Just a quick response.
14 You said you asked a question why did the company ask 15 for an uprate. We as the NRC cant tell you why the 16 company asked for it. Our purpose is to -- our 17 purpose is --
18 (Participant speaking from an unmicked 19 location.)
20 MR. RICHARDS: First of all, well not 21 speculate on the companys motives. Our purpose is to 22 take their amendment and to take a look at it from an 23 engineering point of view and decide on whether the 24 plant can be safely operated at the uprated power 25 condition.
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62 1 With regard to emergency planning, if 2 thats an issue, that should be addressed as part of 3 the review standard that goes along with the uprate.
4 It will be looked at.
5 MR. RULAND: Thank you, Stu.
6 MR. HOLIAN: One other comment on that.
7 Plants, they had some slides from the NRC about power 8 uprates. Some plants applied after a couple of years 9 for power uprate. Margins of safety were built into 10 original design aspects of the plan. Over the years 11 they have not only changed power uprates at different 12 levels. Theyve also changed some of the technical 13 specifications that they operate by, allow the NRC 14 staff to review those. The inspectors from the region 15 go out and change on those changes.
16 So its not only power uprates. Its 17 certain margins of safety, certain equipment 18 allowances for taking things out of service. They 19 still have technical specifications that they have to 20 follow. If equipment is out of service, the plant 21 still shuts down when those design margins cannot be 22 met.
23 Thats all.
24 MR. RULAND: And if they dont make the 25 standards, they dont get the power uprate.
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63 1 Mr. Bidwell, where are you?
2 MR. JEFFRIES: Right over here.
3 MR. RULAND: Question right here. Okay.
4 Go ahead.
5 MR. JEFFRIES: My name is Dan Jeffries.
6 First of all, I would like to thank the 7 NRC for coming to town with such excellent 8 representation.
9 Second of all, Id like to bring to your 10 attention, considering the representation that is in 11 this room tonight, that a vote was held in this region 12 two years ago on whether Vermont Yankee should 13 continue to operate or not, and a majority of the 14 people in the region voted in favor of the continued 15 operation of Vermont Yankee. I think thats 16 important.
17 And the other thing I would point out is 18 that as a taxpayer, I expect that the Nuclear 19 Regulatory Commission will conduct business in 20 accordance with its regulations, its rules, and its 21 guidelines, and as has been stated in this room, it 22 should not be intimidated by the people here or any 23 other business or corporation.
24 MR. RULAND: Did you get his name? We got 25 Dan. Okay. Thanks.
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64 1 Somebody else? Mr. Bidwell, where are 2 you?
3 MR. BIDWELL: Over here.
4 MR. RULAND: I think hes a pretty good 5 facilitator.
6 PARTICIPANT: Three minutes, five seconds.
7 MR. RULAND: I disagree with you.
8 Go ahead.
9 MR. SACKS: Thank you.
10 My name is Gary Sacks, Brattleboro, 11 Vermont. I am not a nuclear engineer.
12 NRC, I do not trust you to protect the 13 safety of the state nor to be honest in your dealings 14 with the residents of Vermont.
15 NRC, I do not trust you nor Entergy to 16 call this machine across the street safe without an in 17 depth inspection like was done at Maine Yankee in 18 1996.
19 You said Three Mile Island was a wake-up 20 call for the industry. That was March 28th, 1979, the 21 same year the NRC publicly stated theres no such 22 thing as a safe amount of radiation.
23 Since 1979, these are some of the events 24 that have occurred:
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65 1 in Tennessee, a rookie operator caused a 110,000 2 gallon radioactive coolant release.
3 January 25th, 82, Ginna plant nearly 4 Rochester, a steam generator pipe broke, 15,000 5 gallons of radioactive coolant spilled, and small 6 amounts of radioactive steam escaped into the air.
7 January 15th and 16th, Browns Ferry 8 Station, nearly 208,000 gallons of low level 9 radioactive contaminated water accidentally dumped 10 into the Tennessee River.
11 81, 82, and 83, Salem I and II. Shall 12 I go into all of them?
13 1996, Chairman Shirley Jackson, NRC 14 Chairman Shirley Jackson speaking of Milstone in Time 15 Magazine, "clearly, NRC dropped the ball. We wont do 16 it again."
17 February 15th, 2000, New Yorks Indian 18 Point II, an aging steam generator ruptured, venting 19 radioactive steam. The NRC initially reported no 20 radioactive material was released, but later changed 21 their report to say there was a release, but not 22 enough to threaten public safety.
23 Wait. Didnt the NRC in 1979 say theres 24 no such thing as a safe amount of radiation?
25 2004, the new NRC Chairman, Nils Diaz, on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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66 1 Davis-Besse said the agency "dropped the ball."
2 Again? Dropping the ball is not okay. If Three Mile 3 Island was a wake-up call, were you asleep at the 4 control panel during these other events or just 5 napping?
6 The NRC fallbacks of defense in depth, 7 redundant safety systems, alphabet soup acronyms, and 8 color candy coated labeling systems do not help me 9 feel more safe.
10 Entergy refuses to have public dialogues 11 with a local community to address safety issues, 12 saying the NRC process is where public concerns are to 13 be addressed. How does it serve the NRCs Public 14 Affairs Office to refuse to hold independent 15 assessments that have been requested? At this point 16 the entire state is lining up in that direction.
17 (Applause.)
18 MR. BIDWELL: He says the question is 19 rhetorical.
20 I had someone that needed to leave because 21 of a small child and I have lost her now. Oh, 22 standing right in front of me.
23 MS. ENOCHS: Hi. My name is Amy. I live 24 in Brattleboro. This is my son Julian. He is almost 25 five years old. Enochs, E-n-o-c-h-s.
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67 1 I have a question that I would like 2 answered by the NRC, and my son is here tonight 3 because he has an idea, and I would like to help 4 support him in that.
5 Hold on. Let me ask my question.
6 My question is it is correct that there 7 have been eight uprates in the United States. Is that 8 the correct number?
9 MR. McMURTRAY: There have been 101 10 uprates granted.
11 MS. ENOCHS: One hundred and one uprates.
12 And how many plants are experiencing uprated related 13 difficulties right now? Four; is that correct? There 14 are four plants that are experiencing difficulties.
15 So my question is if these difficulties --
16 MR. RULAND: Steam dryer issues. I think 17 youre referring to --
18 MS. ENOCHS: Okay. They are uprate 19 related difficulties.
20 MR. RULAND: Right. Plants that are 21 actually plants that similar in design to Vermont 22 Yankee, yes.
23 MS. ENOCHS: Yes.
24 MR. RULAND: Quad Cities Units I and II.
25 MS. ENOCHS: Yes, and the Dresden plant.
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68 1 MR. RULAND: Quad Cities Units I and II 2 and the Dresden plant, yes, correct.
3 MS. ENOCHS: So my question is: why is 4 the NRC even considering more uprate applications 5 instead of looking into these four plants that are 6 experiencing uprate related difficulties?
7 MR. RULAND: Great question. Thank you.
8 (Applause.)
9 MS. ENOCHS: And then my son would like 10 to. My son has a comment.
11 MR. RULAND: Can I answer your question 12 first?
13 MS. ENOCHS: Yes. I would like an answer 14 to my question.
15 MR. RULAND: Okay. Thank you.
16 MS. ENOCHS: Thank you.
17 MR. RULAND: What you mentioned about Quad 18 Cities concerns the NRC. It turns out Im the project 19 director for -- a project director at three which has 20 oversight of the licensing of Region III plants out 21 there in the Midwest, and Quad Cities and Dresden are 22 in the region that I have licensing responsibility 23 for.
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69 1 is in discussion with Exelon about these very matters, 2 and were seriously considering taking additional 3 regulatory action. We havent yet. We are 4 considering it. Any of the lessons learned from those 5 from Quad Cities will be applied to the review of 6 Vermont Yankee.
7 As Ive stated before, we havent approved 8 the Vermont Yankee uprate. If we have a problem with 9 the steam dryer at Vermont Yankee than hasnt been 10 adequately resolved to our satisfaction, we wont 11 approve it.
12 So Quad Cities, maybe in the next week or 13 so, if you watch our Website or give us a call, well 14 let you know what we do. Okay? But it would be 15 premature for now for us. Were having internal NRC 16 discussions about this matter, but we are going to 17 take some action on this.
18 We already had taken action. The licensee 19 had sent us a letter agreeing that they wouldnt raise 20 power above the former 100 percent power for a 21 significant amount of their operating cycle. Thats 22 what they did. They did that at our insistence.
23 Okay?
24 And were going to insist that they 25 address that issue.
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70 1 MR. HOLIAN: Bill just to add directly to 2 that question, I did attend the VSNAP meeting this 3 afternoon from, I guess, 3:30 to 6:00 or so, and I 4 just wanted the other public to know in case VSNAP 5 doesnt get a chance to be mentioned again, this is 6 one of the questions that theyve raised and other 7 people have raised on the issue, is the dryer issue.
8 It has been raised in letters to the NRC, 9 but it has been raised in that vein. It was some of 10 the questions that went back on the time line that you 11 didnt have. Some of you might have the slide from 12 the time line and why the VY application wasnt 13 accepted originally and why there were additional 14 questions asked. The dryers were a part of that.
15 MR. RULAND: And, by the way, it is 16 included. Vibration is included in our review 17 standard regarding the steam dryers.
18 MS. ENOCHS: Okay. I would -- a young 19 citizen, I would like to give Julian the time that he 20 has waited so patiently here for tonight.
21 Do you want to tell them your idea, honey?
22 MR. ENOCHS: No.
23 MS. ENOCHS: So Julian is here tonight 24 because he had an idea of issuing tickets to the 25 people who are creating the pollution at the factory NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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71 1 across the street. In our home we call it a 2 "factory," and so Julian made a bunch of tickets, and 3 the idea behind the tickets is that the tickets will 4 cost Entergy so much money that they will not have 5 enough money to keep that factory open.
6 (Applause.)
7 MR. ENOCHS: And they can one -- listen.
8 They can -- you could pay one maybe, but then the 9 others you cant pay because you have to use all the 10 money to pay one.
11 MS. ENOCHS: So I --
12 (Applause.)
13 MR. RULAND: Sounds like an expensive --
14 MS. ENOCHS: So I had thought that there 15 would be Entergy officials up here this evening, but 16 maybe you gentlemen could pass the tickets on to the 17 Entergy officials.
18 (Applause.)
19 MR. BIDWELL: Are you going to give them 20 the tickets? Okay. I think hes having some 21 difficulty relinquishing the tickets.
22 (Laughter.)
23 MR. BIDWELL: All right. Im going to go 24 ahead and move on here to this gentleman in the front.
25 Then Im going to swing around this direction.
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72 1 MR. SPRAGUE: Thank you.
2 My name is Edward Sprague, S-p-r-a-g-u-e.
3 Im a resident of the town. I live just down the road 4 here with property bounded on two sides by Vermont 5 Yankee.
6 Is this coming through?
7 As a resident, Ive had to kind of resolve 8 in my own mind what am I living in the midst of, and 9 I was there when this -- I came to this place in the 10 present house in 1955. It was a dairy farm when I 11 moved in, and then Vermont Yankee came in in about 12 1967-68.
13 I had my fears and trepidations, and I did 14 some studying, and I had my own monitor checking on 15 radiation and all of this sort of thing. I finally 16 resolved in my own mind Im living next to something 17 that is really quite safe.
18 And somebody raised a question: what does 19 the company want out of this thing? Obviously it 20 wants profit, but more particularly, we are in need of 21 more power. Every one of you buy electrical 22 appliances. You bring them on line. You dont even 23 think about where the electricity is coming from, and 24 youd be very upset if it was turned off.
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73 1 this operation is a very simple process. Youre going 2 to put more water through the reactor to make more 3 steam. You arent changing the temperature or the 4 pressures within the reactor. It goes on and goes 5 through a more efficient equipment to make more 6 electricity with less steam input, and the end result 7 is a 20 percent increase in power.
8 It makes a lot of sense, and it has 9 nothing to do with the age of the equipment. As long 10 as that reactor is sound and you can put more water 11 through it, and all youre doing is burning a little 12 more fuel. Youre putting a little more -- what?
13 All youre doing is adding a little more 14 fuel to it to heat that additional water, and I dont 15 see that thats any great shake.
16 Thank you.
17 (Applause.)
18 MR. BLOCK: Jonathan Block.
19 Many of you know that Ive been dealing 20 with these issues for the past 11 years, and its very 21 difficult to sit here all of this time listening to 22 the NRCs comment about the availability of a public 23 hearing while Im the attorney thats involved in 24 taking them to the United States Court of Appeals in 25 the First Circuit suing them over the fact that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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74 1 theyve just implemented new rules under which the 2 hearing that theyll offer you will be called 3 "informal."
4 Youll have no right to present witnesses.
5 Youll have no right to present evidence. Youll have 6 no right to cross examine witnesses. This is their 7 idea of due process. Its very similar to the idea of 8 due process that they had in Italy and in Germany in 9 the 1930s.
10 I suggest that we need to do something 11 about this; that this is just the beginning. You have 12 to wake up. This is only the tip of the iceberg.
13 Todays New York Times had an article 14 about the licensing of new nuclear power plants. This 15 is all part of a push by the Nuclear Energy Institute 16 and the nuclear industry. They know this is their 17 last chance, and if people in this country dont wake 18 up, and I mean wake up and stand up now, theres going 19 to be nuclear power plants all over this country.
20 And when it comes time to go to the 21 licensing hearings, youll have absolutely no 22 opportunity to do anything but stand there and wail.
23 (Applause.)
24 MR. BIDWELL: Just, Bill, a quick check on 25 whether thats a correct assessment of that hearing NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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75 1 process.
2 MR. RULAND: Im not a lawyer. I dont --
3 I dont want to talk right now about the hearing 4 process. You can go to our Website, check it out.
5 Okay? You can listen to the comments previously made 6 by the current -- by the previous speaker.
7 What Id like to say has to do about the 8 safety of the plant and the comment process. The NRC, 9 okay, its common practice for us to address and 10 consider every comment on the licensing action and 11 were going to do that. Okay? Its an informal 12 process. Its not the formal hearing process, but it 13 is an informal process.
14 I have a commitment from my staff to 15 address those technical concerns. If Mr. Blanch gives 16 us those technical concerns or Mr. Shadis, the more 17 specific the better. We will address those.
18 Thank you.
19 And I resent any, any comparison of the 20 NRC to some nefarious regime. I think thats 21 completely -- that is completely out of bounds.
22 Thank you.
23 (Applause.)
24 MS. COOPER: My name is Martha Cooper, C-25 o-o-p-e-r. Im from New Hampshire.
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76 1 I have a letter from the Mayor of Keene.
2 Keene is the largest city in New Hampshire thats 3 close to the plant. He says, "As Mayor of the largest 4 and closest city in New Hampshire to Vermont Yankee, 5 Vernon, Vermont, I humbly request that an independent 6 safety assessment be undertaken at Vermont Yankee 7 prior to permitting the 20 percent increase in energy 8 producing capacity.
9 "I have recently toured Vermont Yankee, 10 and I am very impressed with its security, its 11 personnel, and the condition of the facility. My 12 reason for requesting an evaluation of the plant is to 13 assure all that Vermont Yankee is capable of safely 14 increasing its production by 20 percent.
15 "Mayor Michael Blastos."
16 Thank you.
17 (Applause.)
18 MR. BIDWELL: And just to clarify, that 19 was an independent safety assessment, correct?
20 Okay.
21 MR. RULAND: Youll give us the letter?
22 Thank you.
23 MR. RIENDEAU: My name is Phillip 24 Riendeau, R-i-e-n-d-e-a-u. I am from New Hampshire 25 myself also.
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77 1 Now, my interest in this here is this 2 meeting was called for people representing from the 3 State of Vermont. The legislature of the State of 4 Vermont asked the NRC to come and actually hold this 5 meeting.
6 One thing that I noticed thats missing 7 though is that youve got neighboring states from 8 Massachusetts and New Hampshire who have not actually 9 been invited to these meetings, you know, 10 specifically. There are maybe members here 11 representing you, but there are not representation for 12 these states who border this nuclear plant.
13 I also think that in regards to like Mr.
14 Alexanders comment about word games, that "uprate" to 15 means sounds like something that you would do like 16 increasing the price of your electricity. Its almost 17 accepted to the public, especially the public thats 18 not paying attention to this whole process, that 19 calling this an "uprate" to me is just a wrong word.
20 I mean, this is a power increase, and if you worded it 21 in this manner, more people would probably be here 22 than already were.
23 My question to the NRC about this: your 24 process here seems to be almost like a double standard 25 to me. Okay? We as the public, when we work, we go NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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78 1 to our employers, and were told, you know, that we 2 have to submit to like drug tests, for instance, and 3 its for the good of the company, and you know, were 4 expected as law abiding citizens to say that if youre 5 not doing anything wrong, why worry.
6 Well, youre saying that youre an 7 independent assessor. Well, what is wrong with you 8 allowing an independent assessor, independent of the 9 NRC to look at this?
10 (Applause.)
11 MR. BIDWELL: Would you like him to 12 respond to that?
13 MR. RIENDEAU: Yes, I would like a 14 response to that.
15 MR. BIDWELL: He asked for a response to 16 that, to a response to that, to the independents 17 question.
18 MR. RULAND: As I said earlier, when the 19 Vermont -- when the Maine Yankee independent 20 assessment was performed, it was performed by NRC 21 people. Okay? It was performed with contractors that 22 worked for the NRC. There were some state observers.
23 Okay? Thats the inspection that was performed, and 24 we believe that we performed, while not nearly as 25 extensive, we performed an independent assessment NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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79 1 using the architect-engineer inspections. It didnt 2 report to the region. It was with contractors that 3 worked for the NRC.
4 Okay. Now, if you remember, weve gotten 5 this letter from the Senators from Vermont asking us 6 to exercise our authority. What I said at the 7 beginning of this meeting was we take this seriously, 8 and were going to evaluate this, and thats all I can 9 tell you.
10 MR. HOLIAN: Just to add on on the word 11 game issues or questions, its not our intent. Were 12 responding to things. We know the Vermont Yankee 13 folks and people that are interested are fully aware 14 of the Maine Yankee ISA, the independent safety 15 assessment. So weve been responding to those.
16 Earlier today I did rush through those 17 slides. It has not been mentioned yet, but we have 18 inspections that are done very two years, safety 19 system design inspections. There is one coming up in 20 August. It has already been discussed by both Mr.
21 Shadis and Mr. Blanch at the PSB hearings, and theyre 22 looking at issues like that.
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80 1 is throughout this year on these baseline inspections 2 the region can focus all of its inspections or all of 3 the related inspections onto power uprate aspects.
4 So quite a few of our normal inspections 5 will pick modifications that are done or systems and 6 look at them on what theyre doing with the power 7 uprate or power increase. So I just wanted to make 8 that clear.
9 MR. McMURTRAY: Just one minor correction.
10 Our SSDI inspections or our safety system inspections 11 that Brian mentioned, we do those every other year as 12 part of our process, not every year.
13 MR. RULAND: Thank you.
14 MR. BIDWELL: Has a quick follow-up 15 comment or question.
16 MR. RULAND: Okay.
17 MR. RIENDEAU: Yeah, once again, you know, 18 youre really not answering the question because 19 youre saying that you as a the NRC are doing the 20 independent inspection. What is wrong with allowing 21 an independent agency picked by the State of Vermont, 22 the State of New Hampshire and the State of 23 Massachusetts combined to go in and do this kind of 24 thing?
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81 1 you know, that work in the nuclear industry that are 2 not working for the NRC at this time.
3 MR. RULAND: As I previously stated, we 4 are going to respond to the PSB for that request, and 5 we havent written that answer. Its going to be at 6 a higher pay grade than Bill Ruland. You know, were 7 going to talk about this, and were going to consider 8 it. Thats all I can tell you.
9 (Applause.)
10 MR. BIDWELL: Bill, Bill, he also asked if 11 you could follow up on the participation of 12 neighboring states and what NRC thinks about that.
13 MR. RULAND: I talked to our public 14 affairs guy, Neil Sheehan, who is back there, and I 15 dont think I introduced Neil when we did the 16 introductions.
17 Neil tells me we put advertisements in the 18 local papers. It was open for anybody that read those 19 advertisements. It wasnt limited to people in the 20 State of Vermont.
21 Neil, maybe you could tell me where we 22 placed those advertisements. I dont know, but we did 23 try to get the word out, and I know the E-mail 24 underground probably helped. Neil, have you got any 25 suggestions about answer to the question?
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82 1 MR. SHEEHAN: Certainly. We put out a 2 press release. We let all of the local media know.
3 Certainly there were articles that ran in area papers 4 letting people know. The public is always invited to 5 attend.
6 MR. BIDWELL: Hes talking about reaching 7 out to -- I believe, sir, youre talking about 8 reaching out to --
9 MR. RULAND: This is a good question. We 10 got it on the record. Well respond to this question 11 as part of our -- as part of the meeting summary, and 12 well provide you an answer. Okay?
13 MR. BIDWELL: I think that hes --
14 MR. RULAND: It doesnt sound like we have 15 the full picture right now.
16 MR. BIDWELL: I believe that means "we 17 need to look into that." Is that right, Bill? That 18 means we need to look into that?
19 MR. RULAND: Yes, yes, exactly.
20 MR. BIDWELL: Because we dont know right 21 now.
22 MR. RULAND: Thank you. Yes, we will look 23 into that.
24 MS. BLUM: My name is Meredith Blum, B-l-25 u-m.
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83 1 And I would just like to take a quick 2 moment to formally present to you 411 signatures from 3 people that couldnt be here tonight because of work 4 or family reasons. The petition basically says that 5 "we, the undersigned, demand an independent 6 engineering assessment be performed on the Vermont 7 Yankee nuclear power plant. We also demand that the 8 independent inspection will be in compliance with the 9 Vermont State Senate Resolution SR-21."
10 (Applause.)
11 MR. CHILDS: Okay. Thank you.
12 My name is Ned Childs. I live in 13 Dummerston, Vermont, just about exactly ten miles.
14 I first want to say in response to R&E and 15 the G.E. revelations which I think require 16 congressional investigation, full blown, I know the 17 man who founded General Electric, the first president 18 and chairman for over 30 years, Charles Albert Coffin.
19 He was referred to in a Fortune Magazine article as 20 the number one CEO of all time. About 1890 to 1925, 21 he ran the company. He was a Quaker from Maine. He 22 grew up poor, and he said he got into electricity as 23 a successful businessman in his 40s and led the 24 company through its dark days to greatness because he 25 thought electricity could be a wonderful thing. It NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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84 1 would be every mans slave.
2 I have often those Charles Albert Coffin, 3 my great grandfather, would be amazed to see what it 4 has become, that we have become slaves to electricity, 5 but at his death, he was credited with being the man 6 who more than anyone else put electricity over.
7 And he ran G.E., and I think he would be 8 shocked and horrified.
9 Now to my point. In todays Brattleboro 10 Reformer I hold here -- and Ill go quickly. This 11 will go quick -- Vermont Yankee spokesman, Brian 12 Cosgrove, if hes still here -- he was right over 13 there -- my good friend, not colleague, is quoted. He 14 says, "Maine Yankee was a plant that had a lot of 15 problems, while Vermont Yankee is a nuclear plant that 16 has always had a reputation for being well run and 17 well maintained." Brian suggested its apples and 18 oranges.
19 Well, in fact, Mr. Cosgrove has misspoken.
20 He has dissembled. He has, in fact, lied to us.
21 The fact is that in 1995, the last year 22 before Maine Yankee was outed by a truly independent 23 assessment run by the NRC, but under a Democrat in the 24 White House, which that assessment resulted in an NRC 25 official saying it would be insanity to ever restart NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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85 1 that plant; Maine Yankee achieved a higher SALP score, 2 systematic assessment of licensee performance, than 3 Vermont Yankee in 1995. It was two twos and two ones 4 to Vermont Yankees three twos and one one.
5 Go figure. Brian, you should have checked 6 your facts. Brian, come back over from the dark side.
7 (Laughter.)
8 MR. CHILDS: Today, March 31st, 2004, its 9 the 25th anniversary of Day Five at Three Mile Island, 10 the day they figured out that the hydrogen gas bubble 11 in the melted down core at the one year old Unit II 12 reactor would not blow the vessel and containment 13 resulting in a Chernobyl scale disaster in the heart 14 of Amish country; the day they figured out that 15 controlled releases would save the day, and local and 16 national cancer mortality rates began to soar.
17 There never has been an honest analysis --
18 this is the end -- of the morbidity in the known plumb 19 zones. This was covered up, and the NRC, you guys, 20 were then and are still complicit in this coverup.
21 By the way, last night we also learned the 22 still molten core at the destroyed TMI Unit II reactor 23 could go critical at any time. The China Syndrome is 24 still a distinct possibility at Harrisburg, 25 Pennsylvania, Peggy and Patty, wherever you are.
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86 1 Now, this is the end.
2 Admiral Hyman Rickover, we also learned, 3 the progenitor of the United States Nuclear Navy, 4 pressured then President Carter, a nuclear engineer 5 himself, to downplay the disaster. Rickovers 6 daughter signed an affidavit that her father made a 7 deathbed confession to her -- thats dead mans 8 testimony, not admissible in court -- that he had last 9 regretted his actions which he feared would have 10 devastated the commercial nuclear power industry and 11 even potentially the nuclear Navy he so dearly loved.
12 Finally, last night we also learned that 13 one research epidemiologist who worked the numbers 14 around TMI honestly and earnestly ascertained abnormal 15 clusters of metastatic breast cancers around nuclear 16 communities, including Hanford, Washington, Oak Ridge, 17 Tennessee, Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Vernon, Vermont, 18 and so on.
19 I do not see that adult female mammary 20 glands are well represented tonight in either the NRC 21 group or the Entergy group. Why is that?
22 (Applause.)
23 MR. CHILDS: Im almost done.
24 Maybe these guys were bottle fed from 25 birth. Now, listen, good people here. Go do a Google NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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87 1 search on New England Coalition, Google search on New 2 England Coalition, three words, and support the ant 3 people in our fight against the Godzilla, this uprate, 4 this Vermont Yankee, this travesty in a high tech 5 disguise.
6 (Applause.)
7 MR. BIDWELL: No response needed.
8 MR. STEINBERG: Im Alan Steinberg. I 9 live in Putney, Vermont and work in Brattleboro.
10 And following up on what Ned said about 11 CEOs, Id like to just briefly read you a very short 12 story that I think will illuminate the situation 13 somewhat more.
14 A man I know finds himself in a meeting 15 room at the very edge of speech. Hes approaching his 16 moment of reckoning, and he is looking for support 17 from his fellow executives around the table.
18 Strangely, at this moment no one will look 19 at him. The CEO is pacing up and down on the slate 20 gray carpet. He has asked in no uncertain terms for 21 their opinion of the plan he wants to put through. "I 22 want to know what you all think about this," he 23 demands, "on a scale of one to ten."
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88 1 it or not. Hes just plain tired after all of this 2 time of people resisting his ideas on the matter. He 3 glares at them. He wants compliance.
4 My friend thinks the plan is terrible and 5 that there is too much riding on this solitary ego.
6 Everyone in the company will lose by it. He is sure 7 also from the talk he has heard that half the other 8 executives in the room think so, too.
9 As they go around the shamed faced table, 10 the voices of those present sound alternatively 11 overconfident or brittle and edgy. Most say ten. One 12 courageous soul braves a nine and a half.
13 And my friend is the last to go. He 14 reaches his hand toward the flame, opens his palm 15 against the heat, and suddenly falters. Against 16 everything he believes, he hears a mouse-like far away 17 voice, his own, saying, "Ten."
18 Now, this story was not my own. It comes 19 from David White, a writer who has been working in 20 corporate America for years to try to humanize the 21 corporate world.
22 And I tell you this story not because I 23 think it typifies what I see at Entergy, although I 24 believe it does. I tell it because you folks here in 25 this room sitting in front of me probably feel it in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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89 1 your gut as well. We know it, and I think you know it 2 as well.
3 You think this group is scary. We know 4 you have to go home to Washington, and we want to say 5 to you that any substitute, robust proposal that is 6 anything less than a full form, vertical slice, 7 independent assessment as far as were concerned is a 8 zero.
9 (Applause.)
10 MR. STEINBERG: And, you know, I do have 11 some sympathy for your position. I realize, like I 12 said, were not as scary as what you need to go home 13 to. You need to face your CEO, who needs to face his 14 CEO, who ultimately faces a big CEO who we all know is 15 the President of the U.S.A., whose position on nuclear 16 power has been made abundantly clear.
17 So we invite you to go home and take the 18 opportunity and not offer us nine and a halfs and 19 tens, but go home and hold your heads high, and say 20 that the people here want this assessment, and that 21 thats what you feel needs to happen as well.
22 Thats what you need to be able to do to 23 sleep at night.
24 Thank you.
25 (Applause.)
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90 1 MR. BIDWELL: I am told I have a yes or no 2 question over here.
3 MR. DAVIS: Id like to ask a question and 4 then make a comment.
5 My name is Andy Davis. I live in 6 Brattleboro.
7 Has any uprate related work already been 8 undertaken at Vermont Yankee, yes or no?
9 I cant hear you.
10 MR. RULAND: Youre discussing physical 11 modifications?
12 MR. DAVIS: Has work related to the uprate 13 begun at Vermont Yankee?
14 MR. RULAND: Thats physical 15 modifications, engineering work?
16 MR. DAVIS: Has work related to the 17 uprate -- Im just asking a question. Im not a 18 nuclear engineer.
19 MR. RULAND: Let me try to answer that 20 question. Engineering work has begun. The licensee 21 has done engineering work. The outage hasnt started.
22 I dont personally know if any modifications have 23 made. My presumption would be that the work would not 24 actually physically begin until this outage, which is 25 getting ready to start.
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91 1 Dave Pelton, you know the answer to this 2 question?
3 MR. PELTON: I dont pretend to speak for 4 the licensee, but I know as the senior resident 5 inspector that the licensee had put aside work, 6 specific changes to the plant, that were related to 7 power uprate pending the states approval of that. I 8 do know that for a fact.
9 MR. DAVIS: Ive read in the Brattleboro 10 Reformer that work is going on related to the plant.
11 The problem is one where you gentlemen 12 have confidence. Its easy to characterize people who 13 speak out and interrupt as somehow irrational. Ive 14 been following this issue in New England for over 20 15 years. Ive been to meetings about increasing the 16 amount of waste stored on the site. Ive been told 17 that at this meeting certain things cannot be talked 18 about. They have to wait for this meeting.
19 The frustration in this room is a result 20 of the process. Its not the result of people being 21 irrational or angry. This process has led to this 22 frustration.
23 Im a reasonable person. I have to get up 24 at eight oclock in the morning. I have to be at work 25 tomorrow morning. Ive waited a long time to ask a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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92 1 simple question.
2 I dont trust this process. Theyre 3 already working on this. Thats the perception on the 4 street in Brattleboro.
5 One other thing. This meeting could not 6 have been designed to deepen the suspicions of 7 reasonable middle-of-the-road people like myself any 8 more than it has, and Id like to know the name of the 9 gentleman who introduced himself from Washington, D.C.
10 in the dark blue suit. Your name?
11 MR. RICHARDS: Im Stu Richards.
12 MR. DAVIS: Thank you.
13 When you say that you cannot speculate on 14 why Vermont Entergy is asking for this uprate, it 15 makes me inside really suspicious, and thats just 16 being honest to you man to man. Thats the low point 17 of the meeting to me.
18 You must know the motivation for this.
19 Why wont you tell it? What is the motivation for 20 this, sir?
21 MR. RICHARDS: Ill tell you again.
22 MR. DAVIS: One hundred, over 100 of these 23 have happened. Whats the motivation?
24 MR. RICHARDS: Can I answer the question, 25 please?
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93 1 Again, I dont speak for the power 2 company. We work for a regulatory agency. If a power 3 wants to come in --
4 MR. BIDWELL: You need to move the 5 microphone closer to your mouth.
6 MR. RICHARDS: Yeah. If a power company 7 comes in and asks for an amendment to their license, 8 our job is not to engage in why they want to do a 9 power uprate, why they want to make the change, as 10 long as they address the safety aspects.
11 And I keep coming back to that because we 12 are not a power regulatory agency. We are not in the 13 business of trying to decide whether the State of 14 Vermont needs power or not or how that power is going 15 to be generated, whether it be from goal, from dams, 16 from solar wind. Our job is if somebody wants to 17 operate a nuclear power plant, that it be done safely, 18 and thats our sole focus, and I will not speculate on 19 why people make power decisions that are outside of 20 our area of expertise.
21 MR. RULAND: You discussed -- let me try 22 to address your question. Let me try to address your 23 question. The NRC has not -- we havent approved the 24 power uprate in spite of any amount of modifications 25 that the company chooses to take at their own risk, we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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94 1 dont -- we would not and cannot and will not --
2 permit them to exceed their current thermal license 3 power level, period.
4 Whether theyre doing modifications in 5 anticipation or not is not the NRCs regulatory 6 purview. If those modifications dont affect the 7 safety of the plant at its current licensed thermal 8 power, okay, we dont have an issue with that.
9 Now, let me address the other piece about 10 what the company chooses to do. Most companies choose 11 it because theyre making money. Okay? Thats plain 12 and simple.
13 What I think Stus point is trying to say, 14 that we try to exercise a certain mental discipline on 15 ourselves to say that our focus is safety. And I 16 apologize for our staff if in any way were 17 communicating unresponsiveness because I know Stu is 18 not trying to be unresponsive.
19 But we always try to focus on safety, and 20 by asking a question as you did, which is a legitimate 21 question -- and, frankly, its a question for the 22 company -- it, frankly, goes against our grain to talk 23 about this because this is not our job. Our job is 24 health and safety of the public for the use of nuclear 25 materials. Thats it.
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95 1 MR. HOLIAN: And, Bill, just to add on, 2 the modifications that are planning to be made during 3 this outage we briefly spoke to before, you know, they 4 wont be used for the power uprate until thats 5 approved by NRC headquarters.
6 However -- no, however, I just wanted 7 to -- no, he mentioned that its -- yeah.
8 MR. RULAND: Absolutely, positively, no.
9 MR. HOLIAN: No, thats clearly at the 10 risk of the licensee. Thats clearly at the risk of 11 the licensee.
12 I did just want to make a point though.
13 They can make a mistake during those modifications.
14 They can replace the same pump with an identical pump, 15 and still put the impeller in backwards. They can --
16 those things happen.
17 Our NRC inspectors will be monitoring 18 those modifications. I wanted to get that across.
19 MR. McMURTRAY: Let me give you one other 20 quick example. In the power uprate application, 21 Vermont Yankee has said theyre going to need three 22 reactor feed pumps, which they now only operate two.
23 Theyre going to need three.
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96 1 that gives them more redundancy in the feed system.
2 So you know, thats their choice to make that 3 modification, but they cannot increase the power level 4 until they get our approval.
5 MR. RULAND: Yeah, lets -- I tried to.
6 Like I said, we try to exert a certain amount of 7 mental discipline ourselves.
8 Bill, I think you want --
9 MR. BIDWELL: Yes, I think we need to move 10 on to the next speaker.
11 MR. RULAND: Yes. Thank you.
12 MS. CABBAGE: Hi. Id like to thank you 13 guys for coming tonight and having this meeting, and 14 I really look forward to other meetings.
15 My name is Pamela Cabbage. I live in 16 Putney, Vermont.
17 I have been to -- I dont know -- at least 18 a dozen meetings about the uprate. I went to a 19 meeting, as many people in this room probably did, 20 last summer hosted by a county regional commission.
21 There was some NRC representatives there. There were 22 also some Entergy people there.
23 The question of why they want an uprate 24 was specifically asked and specifically answered by 25 Entergy that they wanted to make more money. Its NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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97 1 real clear, and you guys can debate about it and think 2 about the ethics of whether or not you should answer 3 that question, but thats the bottom line.
4 At that meeting there was also quite a bit 5 of discussion about power uprates because many of us 6 in the community who are not nuclear engineers but are 7 concerned about our safety didnt have the expertise 8 to understand what an uprate was. So there was a lot 9 of discussion about the NRCs process.
10 So in that I was led to believe, and I 11 feel like there is some misconstruing going on 12 tonight, that there has never been, and you can 13 correct me if Im wrong, an uprate application that 14 has not been processed and implemented because the NRC 15 works with the industry to make sure that the uprates 16 are safe, and so they always have happened.
17 Am I wrong?
18 MR. RULAND: Youre right.
19 MS. CABBAGE: Thank you.
20 I have more. Thats all I need.
21 MR. RULAND: We have approved every 22 uprate.
23 MS. CABBAGE: Thats great. Could I go 24 on?
25 MR. RULAND: Yes.
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98 1 MS. CABBAGE: Because there a many people 2 who would like to talk, and I think we only have about 3 27 more minutes.
4 I would just like to say that we in this 5 community have fears of your collusion with the 6 industry. Whether or not they are founded, we have 7 really strong fears.
8 MR. RULAND: I understand.
9 MS. CABBAGE: I want to finish.
10 We also have really strong fears that this 11 company that has only been in the community for two 12 years is really being straightforward with us.
13 There has been a lot of local press about 14 various things that have happened, and we dont feel 15 like theyre being straightforward and aboveboard with 16 us.
17 So all we are asking is for this 18 independent safety assessment. If theres not a 19 problem with the plant, then the uprate will happen 20 and well all feel confident about it. We live in 21 this community. We live in fear of Chernobyl. We 22 live in fear of not having a community anymore, and 23 its really real for us.
24 I know that its not your job. I know you 25 dont want to think about meltdowns. I know all of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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99 1 that, but if you guys just hear us, we just want this 2 assessment. We know that youre doing your job to the 3 best of your ability. We want a little more because 4 theres a lot of fear in our community.
5 Thank you.
6 (Applause.)
7 MR. RULAND: Well, said. Thank you.
8 MR. BIDWELL: I do want to keep moving 9 around to folks. Just a time warning, which is we did 10 tell the school district that we would be out in 25 11 minutes, and thats just out of respect of their staff 12 that has to close up the room.
13 I know that there are a lot of people who 14 have questions and comments that they want to make.
15 What I would urge is that if there are specific things 16 that would make a satisfying independent safety 17 assessment, what exactly independent means to you, 18 those are things that you need to communicate clearly 19 to NRC to make sure that they understand what it is 20 that youre really asking for.
21 MS. DAVIDSON: Hello. My name is Judy 22 Davidson, and I live in Dummerston within the ten mile 23 radius.
24 Okay, great. Yes, I have a lot of 25 information here, and Im following up on, you know, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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100 1 I guess its Pamela to give you some ideas about why 2 we here in this room have a lot of mistrust of the 3 NRC.
4 Basically we believe that the words mean 5 nobody really cares because although the NRC is 6 charged with protecting the health and safety of the 7 public, the evidence points to the NRC being more 8 concerned with the profits of the industry than with 9 us. The near accident at the Davis-Besse plant in 10 2001 is a clear example of the NRC caving into the 11 owners of the plant who complained it would be too 12 costly to shut the plant down.
13 Finally, when the plant was shut down, it 14 was discovered that there was a huge hole in the six 15 inch steel reactor cap, and although the Inspector 16 General of the NRC chastised the agency later for 17 putting profits above the public safety and the agency 18 set up a task force to make recommendations to prevent 19 this kind of event again, in July of this year, the 20 NRC promoted Stan Collins, the NRC official who was 21 ultimately responsible for allowing the plant to stay 22 open.
23 How can we, the public, believe that the 24 NRC actually learns from its mistakes and is concerned 25 about the publics trust in it if you promote somebody NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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101 1 who so blatantly favored industry profits over the 2 publics safety?
3 I could go on and on and on from many, 4 many articles that write about the ways in which the 5 industry is really in collusion with the NRC. Whether 6 you people yourselves do that or not, there is a real 7 perceived perception.
8 In September of 2003, the Union of 9 Concerned Scientists sent a lengthy vote of no 10 confidence letter to the NRC, and in this letter they 11 deplored the safety culture of the NRC as evidenced by 12 surveys of NRC employees themselves who reported that 13 nearly half of the NRCs work force is reluctant to 14 raise safety concerns and a third of those who voice 15 safety concerns feel they have been retaliated against 16 for doing so.
17 How do you expect us, the public, to trust 18 the NRC management when so many workers dont?
19 And the last thing I will raise is that 20 this September the Inspector General came out with a 21 report on the NRCs oversight of the security at 22 nuclear power plants, and they had many criticisms and 23 made three recommendations, including the 24 reinstatement of mandatory force on force testing that 25 would be surprised, not really announced at the plant NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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102 1 ahead of time as now happens.
2 The NRC rejected these recommendations and 3 insisted that what they were doing was just fine. How 4 can we, the public, be reassured when the NRC reacts 5 so defensively and doesnt listen even to the 6 recommendations of the Inspector General? Are you 7 accountable to no one?
8 And I wont go through anymore, but that 9 is why the culture, that is why the atmosphere in this 10 room is so charged with mistrust.
11 (Applause.)
12 MR. BIDWELL: Are you ready for the next 13 person?
14 MS. BOLLITUS: Good evening. My name is 15 Magdaline Bollitus. Im from West Minsterwest, 16 Vermont.
17 There have been some people here who have 18 said all they want is the independent safety 19 assessment. I think that should be the very least 20 that we get. We need that no matter what else 21 happens, and we need that immediately 22 But I want more. I think we deserve more.
23 I think before an uprate is considered, I think there 24 should be absolutely documented and designed plans for 25 what is going to happen with the waste which already NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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103 1 exists, and if the uprate is approved, what to do with 2 all of the waste which is going to be stuffed in the 3 attic in two years, which is going to have to come 4 out.
5 How can you as business people even allow 6 a business to continue knowing that there is 7 absolutely no solution to what to do with what their 8 byproduct is, which in this case is radioactive toxic 9 waste?
10 (Applause.)
11 MR. BIDWELL: If you could respond 12 briefly.
13 MR. RULAND: Well, were not business 14 people. The NRC makes sure that the licensee meets 15 their requirements. If they dont meet their 16 standards, they have to shut the plant down.
17 If the spent fuel pool is full and they 18 have no place to put it, they have to shut the plant 19 down. Thats our requirements because thats --
20 because in those circumstances we believe that the 21 plant is safe.
22 Anything more than that, then the licensee 23 has to shut the plant down.
24 The NRC has comment and processes, and 25 what Id suggest you do, the NRC has whats called a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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104 1 2.206 process. Okay? You can request the NRC to take 2 action. If you need some help on what this process 3 entails, you could talk to Mr. Blanch; you could talk 4 to Mr. Shadis; you can call my office, and well 5 describe it to you.
6 You send a letter to the NRC, and well 7 evaluate it. So we do afford the public that 8 opportunity.
9 Thank you.
10 Mr. Bidwell, where are you?
11 MR. BIDWELL: Right here. Just one quick 12 request from somebody in the audience, which is if you 13 could please as youre leaving, to pick up your signs, 14 pick up your trash, it will just help the school staff 15 after the meeting.
16 MS. KATZ: Hi. Im Deb Katz, K-a-t-z. I 17 live in Yankee -- I live in Yankee Rowe? -- I live in 18 Rowe, Massachusetts. Im with the Citizens Awareness 19 Network.
20 I think certain things need to get 21 clarified here. You know, the Commission has made it 22 clear that it will not require licensees to defend 23 their sites from a post 9/11 terrorist attack, and 24 this uprate, in fact, makes us far more vulnerable to 25 terrorism and to an accident than ever before.
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105 1 They cant enlarge the size of the 2 reactor. So what they have to do is use enriched fuel 3 to run the reactor, and this fuel, in fact, will be 4 hotter when they take it out. It will be hotter when 5 its stored in that fuel pool. It will be hotter when 6 its put on site in dry storage. And this, in fact, 7 is a greater terrorist target.
8 Right now there are 35,000 curies of 9 cesium in the pool suspended 70 feet up in the air.
10 To put this in context, the Hiroshima bomb had only 11 2,000 curies in it, and that did more damage than any 12 of us can ever imagine.
13 Vermont Yankee, in case of an accident or 14 a terrorist attack, with this uprate would release, in 15 fact, 34 percent more radioactivity into the 16 environment, and whats important in this and why we 17 do this, because you know we have really been told 18 were acting badly tonight, is that, you know, we are 19 afraid, but we are also suffering.
20 I live in Rowe. I come from western 21 Massachusetts. We are, in fact, surrounded by two 22 nuclear reactors. Greenfield has statistical 23 significance in five different cancers. In the 24 Deerfield River valley, we have a tenfold increase in 25 Down Syndrome, statistical significance in numerous NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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106 1 cancers. We have a high rate of handicapped children 2 and learning disabled children.
3 So were not happy. We dont feel safe 4 just with the standard operation, let alone with the 5 idea of an uprate and the potential for us being 6 exposed to more.
7 I want to end on one note because the 8 NRCs job is not just to protect the health and safety 9 of the community. Its to provide confidence, and 10 what you can see tonight -- and I want you to know 11 because Ive gone to these meetings all over the 12 northeast -- is none of us have confidence in you.
13 And you know, I dont need you to answer 14 me, but it would be good for somebody to think about 15 this because youre just not cutting it, and to create 16 an Oprah Winfrey kind of approach to NRC public 17 participation is unacceptable.
18 (Applause.)
19 MR. DOYLE: Good evening, and thanks to 20 everybody for coming out, including our friends from 21 the NRC.
22 My name is James Doyle, and Im a resident 23 of Putney, Vermont. Please forgive my appearance.
24 Im covered in mud because a resident of Vernon was 25 stuck in the mud out back, and I spent 45 minutes NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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107 1 trying to push her out of the mud because no matter 2 how much the Vernon Select Board and elected officials 3 talk down to me, she is my neighbor.
4 (Applause.)
5 MR. DOYLE: Just had to get that off of my 6 chest because Im sick of being called the barbarian 7 at the gate, since I dont live in this town.
8 The story that I just told is relevant for 9 one other reason. Essentially what youre seeing here 10 in this room is the people that live in this area, the 11 human beings who are worried that their children will 12 be born with mutations, the human beings that are 13 worried that if Vermont Yankee melts down they will 14 never escape.
15 They are the human beings who go out and 16 enjoy the woods, the rivers, the lakes, everything in 17 this area that could possibly die because this uprate 18 may not be done properly.
19 You have a chance to do something tonight, 20 to make a decision that you will announce whenever 21 youre going to make it to protect that. An 22 independent safety review is not a loss for you. It 23 is not something that if you grant it you will have 24 lost some sort of status. Maybe Envy wont like you, 25 but do you know what? Not a lot of people like Envy.
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108 1 So it doesnt matter.
2 But if you grant this independent review, 3 if you let an outside third party, non-NRC, non-NV 4 party come in and look at this, if you give the public 5 access to this regulatory oversight, then maybe, just 6 maybe well start to trust you, and well worry a 7 little bit less about, you know, kids born with extra 8 heads and tress that are deforested and fish that are 9 dying because of pollution.
10 You cant lose. You can only win. You 11 said youre considering it. Please consider it in 12 the terms of human beings and not corporate wages.
13 Thank you.
14 (Applause.)
15 MR. BRADEEN: Hello. Im Harold Bradeen, 16 spelled B-r-a-d-e-e-n. Im the incident safety 17 officer for the Vernon Fire Department, and I fully 18 support the uprate based on the fact as an incident 19 safety officer, my job is the safety of our fire 20 fighting crew.
21 We go into that plant on a regular basis.
22 We do a room-by-room analysis of the hazard and remedy 23 for every single situation that we could be called 24 into. We will be the first persons to enter that 25 plant if Fire Brigade requests assistance.
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109 1 I have no hesitation in going into that 2 plant, working with their fire brigade and knowing my 3 men will be safe. I have full confidence in the 4 operation and status of the plant as it is, and I feel 5 it could easily pass whatever inspection is needed to 6 meet the uprate.
7 I totally support the uprate. I feel very 8 safe with the plant in my backyard. I live right 9 across the street, up the road a little ways, and I 10 want to see it continue and to prosper.
11 (Applause.)
12 MR. BIDWELL: Im getting slower 13 noticeably.
14 MS. MILLER: Thank you.
15 My name is Sunny Miller. I live in 16 Deerfield, Massachusetts, and like many of you, I will 17 take news back with me through our Website, 18 traprockpeace.org (phonetic). A thousand people visit 19 there daily or more.
20 I want to thank our colleagues in the 21 Citizens Awareness Network and New England Coalition 22 on Nuclear Pollution for outstanding work in educating 23 us about our opportunities ahead. We need not only to 24 support them financially, but lets also support their 25 leadership by taking our own leadership.
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110 1 I propose to you that in the days and 2 months ahead, we may need to form something akin to 3 that great organization, Clamshell Alliance, in which 4 many different kinds of citizens, realtors, state 5 representatives, mothers, bicyclists, many, many kinds 6 of people showed their way to help change the world, 7 educate their neighbors, and put an end to new nuclear 8 power.
9 Perhaps a new alliance called how about 10 Upland, an Upland Alliance, might form with your local 11 meetings or your constituents getting together for 12 their teas, and to please confer by a very efficient 13 teleconferencing call so that we can plan together, so 14 that if the Nuclear Regulatory Commission doesnt put 15 an end to the hazards we face, we will put an end to 16 it together.
17 A phone number to Network (413) 773-5188, 18 extension 3.
19 Thank you. Seven, seven, three in 413, 20 Deerfield, Massachusetts, 773-5188, extension 3.
21 MR. STEVENSON: Yes, my name is Tim 22 Stevenson. I live in Athens, Vermont, and work in 23 Brattleboro.
24 The NRC process, as I understand it, 25 largely concerns itself with the issue of safety, and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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111 1 one issue that has not been raised tonight that I 2 would like to bring to your attention and get a quick 3 answer to, we dont have an evacuation plan in this 4 area, an evacuation plan that the citizens believe in, 5 an evacuation plan that follows the recommendations 6 and guidance of the literature on nuclear evacuation 7 plans.
8 We have a plan that has been prepared by 9 the Vermont Emergency Management group that is in some 10 kind of limbo right now. There are towns within the 11 emergency planning zone that have rejected this plan.
12 Many of the citizens do not believe in it, and what I 13 would like to know is how much weight do you give to 14 this fact that we dont have a plan that can get 15 citizens safely out of here should there be a nuclear 16 emergency.
17 MR. BIDWELL: Evacuation plan.
18 MR. HOLIAN: Evacuation planning is an 19 issue at all nuclear power plants. They are required 20 to do an exercise every two years. The NRC does 21 evaluate those with teams of inspections that come out 22 and assess those.
23 So, once again, as requirements were meant 24 earlier, it is one of our cornerstones that you looked 25 at under that reactor oversight process. We talked NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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112 1 about findings in security, that BY had one in 2 security a couple of years ago, a yellow finding.
3 Many plants have had issues with emergency 4 preparedness, even under the reactor oversight 5 process.
6 One of the plants when to what they call 7 multiple degraded cornerstone, which is the fourth 8 column over, based almost primarily on emergency 9 preparedness findings. It was a plant in the Midwest.
10 So it is something we inspect.
11 MR. RULAND: Id just like to add that 12 your comments are on the record, and you know, Im not 13 the emergency planning guy. Weve established a new 14 office in the Office of NRC specifically for emergency 15 planning because we know its particularly important 16 to the citizens, and well make sure we examine your 17 comments.
18 Go ahead.
19 MS. BURTON: Good evening. Hello. Im 20 Nancy Burton, and I came up here this evening with my 21 father from Connecticut.
22 And we came up here to support the 23 independent safety assessment and to push for a 24 nuclear free Vermont.
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113 1 with our own Milstone, where there were resident NRC 2 inspectors during the period of time that somehow 3 Northeast Utilities lost two spent fuel rods. I 4 understand theyre all still looking for them.
5 We also know that Milstone is somewhat 6 notorious for releasing radioactive radioisotopes into 7 the air. Well, coming up here to Vermont, and given 8 where we are tonight, heres my question. Since were 9 right across the street from an elementary school, Im 10 assuming that the Vermont Yankee nuclear power plant 11 doesnt release radiation into the air.
12 Question: is that correct?
13 Im being facetious, of course.
14 MR. HOLIAN: I know you are. Somebody 15 else, I think, in the earlier meeting tried to get 16 release off the Website. There was another comment.
17 You might not have been here then.
18 The nuclear power plants are required on 19 an annual basis to submit on the document so that you 20 can access both waterborne and airborne releases.
21 There are federal limits for those, and it is 22 something that we inspect as part of the baseline.
23 MR. PELTON: Dave Pelton.
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114 1 that question here at Vermont -- I mean --
2 MR. HOLIAN: Well, accountability. She 3 mentioned of Milstone plant that did have an issue 4 with a fuel pin that was lost. There was an intense 5 NRC inspection on that. A lot of early on shipments 6 were made from spent fuel pools, and there was an NRC 7 inspection report that talks about probable causes on 8 that. There are other aspects that were related to 9 the NRC did an inspection follow that to do a material 10 accountability at all pools across the nation.
11 MR. PELTON: Thanks, Brian.
12 Thats right, and to address that specific 13 part of your question, just bear with me for a second.
14 You know, myself and Beth, my other resident 15 inspector, we did a fairly detailed review of the 16 spent fuel at Vermont Yankee here, where I look at 17 almost every day anyway, and we looked historically 18 through the records from day one since theyve put 19 anything into that pit, and we validated that theres 20 a record that all of the material they said is in 21 there still is in there.
22 And we challenged them on a number of 23 points to validate some areas that we didnt 24 understand how they followed their process. We 25 challenged them on that, and they took some action, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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115 1 and indeed, we did validate that.
2 MS. BURTON: I just wanted --
3 MR. RULAND: -- fully evaluated all of the 4 inventory and that everything they say is there is 5 right where it belongs, just to address that one 6 point.
7 MS. BURTON: Right. Well, Im just 8 wondering if, in fact, you get the upgrade and theres 9 a 34 percent increase in the radiation, theres a sign 10 over here. Maybe everybody could turn around and see 11 it at the end of the auditorium, Jim. "Dont be 12 afraid to be active."
13 And Im wondering are you suggesting the 14 children going to this school and their children learn 15 not to be afraid to be radioactive.
16 Thank you.
17 MR. BIDWELL: I know that there are a lot 18 of people still who have questions and comments. I 19 dont know where our janitor is to find out how late 20 we can go.
21 Because a lot of people are planning on 22 leaving at 11 oclock, okay, Im not saying that were 23 taking -- Im not saying that were taking no more 24 comments. What Im saying is because people are 25 planning on leaving at 11 and I know that were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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116 1 getting into heavy attrition here, I wanted to give 2 Bill an opportunity to wrap up the summary of -- wait.
3 No, no, no. Listen. This is going to be useful for 4 you -- to wrap up the summary of where this 5 information is going to be, what theyre going to do 6 with this information so that people -- so that people 7 know about it.
8 MS. SCHEIDLE: Thank you very much.
9 Im Andrea Scheidle, Putney, Vermont.
10 I really wasnt going to come tonight. I 11 really wasnt going to come tonight, but I did, and I 12 had a couple of things that I want to say, and the 13 first two sound like jokes, but they have a deep 14 meaning.
15 We have five seasons here in Vermont, and 16 this is mud season, and theres an old story where a 17 man sitting on the porch of his house and he sees his 18 neighbor walking down the road, and the neighbor is up 19 to his neck in mud.
20 And so the guy says to his neighbor, "Fine 21 day for a walk."
22 And his neighbor says, "Walking hell. Im 23 riding horseback."
24 (Laughter.)
25 MS. SCHEIDLE: Problems can be a lot NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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117 1 deeper than they initially appear on the surface.
2 Theres another little story that sounds 3 like a joke. A researcher is doing a project with 4 fleas, and hes training the fleas to jump over a 5 stick. And he gets the fleas, and he says, "Jump, 6 fleas, jump," and the fleas jump over the stick.
7 And each time the flea jumps, he takes a 8 leg off the flea, and so he takes off one leg. "Jump, 9 flea, jump." The flea jumps over. He does this with 10 hundreds of fleas.
11 Only theres a problem because when he 12 gets all the legs pulled off the fleas, when he gets 13 to the last one, the flea makes a tremendous effort, 14 jumps over the stick with that one leg, and then he 15 pulls the last leg off and nothing happens, and he 16 finally publishes his results.
17 The results are: when all of the legs are 18 pulled off fleas, they cant hear.
19 Science has a way of looking for specific 20 outcomes that are very dangerous these days. I just 21 came from New Zealand, which is a nuclear free 22 country, and I watched the endangered yellow-eyed 23 penguins coming into shore, and I watched all of the 24 little banded shell diggers walking on the beach.
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118 1 were butterflies by the thousands, before insecticides 2 when the apple trees sang in the springtime for all 3 the insects that flocked around them. Something is 4 wrong, and we all know what it is.
5 Part of it is need; part of it is greed.
6 We have greed. We all have, many of us, more than we 7 need.
8 You guys, I know you have a charge and 9 its to oversee something, and you have parameters.
10 Youre here to do that. Thats your charge, and you 11 have boundaries. You know, you cant just decide, oh, 12 were going to get rid of all the nuclear energy, 13 right? Nuclear free Vermont.
14 I want a nuclear free world for my 15 children and my grandchildren. I know you cant do 16 that. Okay? But somewhere along the line, nuclear 17 energy became privatized, and so you were created to 18 oversee that. Do I understand that correctly? To 19 oversee the private use of nuclear energy and what 20 happens to nuclear fuel in the country.
21 MR. RULAND: Yes, yes.
22 MS. SCHEIDLE: You were created as an 23 agency for that.
24 You are my employee. You are the employee 25 of every person in this room. You are the employee.
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119 1 You are my employee via them. This is my microphone.
2 MR. RULAND: Under contract. Hes under 3 contract.
4 MS. SCHEIDLE: Okay, and Im not -- you 5 know, I dont want to take this away from anyone in 6 this room who still wants to speak, but we have to 7 trust you guys. You have to do something.
8 All over the world nature is dying because 9 of science while science is trying so hard to make 10 things live, but were looking at the wrong things.
11 Please do something. Please help us to make this a 12 nuclear free world, not just the bombs that I used to 13 crawl under the desk to hide from, but those little 14 sticks that youre burying into the ground that are 15 going to be there for centuries and centuries and 16 centuries.
17 I want the butterflies back.
18 (Applause.)
19 MR. RULAND: Thank you. Very heartfelt 20 comments. Thank you.
21 Its -- by the way, its 11 oclock.
22 MS. PEIFFER: Hi. Im Jeannette Peiffer 23 from Putney, Vermont.
24 And I just want to ask: has the NRC 25 scheduled additional inspection hours for the uprate?
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120 1 MR. RULAND: Im sorry. I missed that.
2 MS. PEIFFER: Has the NRC scheduled 3 additional inspection hours for the uprate?
4 MR. RULAND: Brian.
5 MR. HOLIAN: Yes. Inspection hours start 6 during the outage, just to watch some of those 7 modifications. Part of it will be continuing based on 8 the review by headquarters.
9 MR. RULAND: And we have a specific 10 inspection to do that, yes.
11 MS. PEIFFER: How many additional hours?
12 MR. RULAND: How many hours?
13 MR. HOLIAN: Well, a large portion of 14 baseline hours get, as I mentioned earlier, get 15 focused on all of the modifications. So its a --
16 yeah, thats on the individual. We have one 17 individual procedure that looks at certain mods and 18 then many baseline procedures also will look at 19 modifications.
20 MS. PEIFFER: (Speaking from an unmicked 21 location.)
22 MR. HOLIAN: Theres some additional and 23 then theres some focused on routine inspections.
24 MR. BIDWELL: Can I ask for folks to leave 25 as quietly as they can for the other folks that are NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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121 1 still speaking?
2 MR. SPRITE: Hi. Im Fred Sprite, and Im 3 an elective representative from the Town of 4 Brattleboro, the same district as Sarah Edwards is 5 from.
6 Im acquainted with a lot of people who 7 have or do work at Vermont Yankee, and this is 8 definitely not about them. I have confidence in their 9 abilities, and you guys seem like reasonable guys.
10 I used to live in Rockville, Maryland, and 11 I know those are kind of shark infested waters down 12 there in the D.C. area.
13 I think whats obvious is that were here 14 aware of the politics that are behind what we each 15 have to do in our jobs when were in positions like 16 you are and like they are.
17 There seems to be a consensus of the 18 elected representatives in three states here that a 19 true independent safety assessment or engineering 20 assessment, whatever you want to call it, and to me 21 that would mean something which is answerable to and 22 hired by people in the states, but obviously, you 23 know, Im not one to decide that.
24 I just feel like as a wrap-up that its 25 very clear that, you know, the state, our national NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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122 1 delegations, people from Keene, people from 2 Massachusetts have all made it very clear, and so your 3 credibility hinges on being able to deliver that.
4 Its not saying that you cant do a good enough job.
5 Its saying that for the rest of us to have adequate 6 confidence, which is a part of the equation, is that 7 we feel safe; its not that it -- you know, I know 8 there was someone I know here who was an 9 epidemiologist who studied Three Mile Island and the 10 cancer results of that. It was a -- yeah, -- it was 11 a 100-fold increase in rates of certain kinds of 12 cancer.
13 She also studied some of the sites where 14 depleted uranium was being tested, which is actually 15 waste products from nuclear power plants that are 16 being used for weapons in places like Iraq, 17 Afghanistan, Kosovo, a couple of pounds of which Im 18 told can give, by repeated doctors, can give just 19 about everybody on the planet cancer. And we blew up 20 90 tons of it in Iraq in 91.
21 I think because of things like this and 22 the cancer rates in areas where those things have been 23 tested, our confidence in our government is poor, and 24 its because people in political positions -- and you 25 guys are in political positions -- have a hard time NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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123 1 sticking your necks out far enough.
2 I know its hard in my position just in 3 the minor position that Im in. So I sympathize with 4 you, but Im saying that the bigger picture requires 5 us to do so.
6 MR. RULAND: Thank you.
7 MR. SPRITE: And I ask you to.
8 MR. RULAND: The cancer studies around 9 TMI, there have been a number of them. They have not 10 shown, to the best of my knowledge, increased cancer 11 rates, but were going to get you the results of that.
12 And if you could share that with us, and 13 well get that.
14 MR. SPRITE: And its not only -- were 15 aware of numerous studies that have been done, but it 16 has also gone through the court system. So its not 17 just the reports that we have.
18 But it continues to come up, and we 19 continue to address that. We do have a whole section 20 at headquarters also that deals with health effects.
21 MR. RULAND: And, you know, weve got to 22 end this meeting right now. Okay?
23 MR. BIDWELL: Weve been asked to go. I 24 do want to encourage everyone to submit written 25 comments. There were self-mailer written comment NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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124 1 forms that were handed out earlier in the evening.
2 Bill, do you have a brief comment to end?
3 MR. RULAND: No, thats all right. Thank 4 you.
5 (Whereupon, the public meeting was 6 concluded.)
7 8
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