ML110760687
| ML110760687 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palisades  |
| Issue date: | 03/07/2011 |
| From: | NRC/OCM |
| To: | |
| chawla M | |
| References | |
| NRC-774, G20110127, OEDO-2011-0156 | |
| Download: ML110760687 (30) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
10 CFR 2.206 Petition RE Palisades Nuclear Power Plant Docket Number: (n/a)
Location: (telephone conference)
Date: Monday, March 7, 2011 Work Order No.: NRC-774 Pages 1-28 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 + + + + +
3 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 4 + + + + +
5 NUCLEAR REACTOR REGULATION 6 + + + + +
7 PETITION REVIEW BOARD 8 DISCUSSION WITH PETITIONER 9 ---------------------------
10 In the Matter of: :
11 10 CFR 2.206 PETITION :
12 OF MICHAEL MULLIGAN :
13 WITH RESPECT TO :
14 PALISADES NUCLEAR PLANT :
15 ---------------------------
16 Monday, March 7, 2011 17 18 The above-entitled conference convened via 19 teleconference, pursuant to notice, at 1:00 p.m.
20 Eastern Daylight Time.
21 BEFORE:
22 THEODORE QUAY, Petition Review Board Chairman 23 MAHESH CHAWLA, Petition Manager for 2.206 petition 24 TANYA MENSAH, Petition Coordinator 25 ANDREA RUSSELL, NRR/Division of Policy and Rulemaking 26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 NRC STAFF PRESENT:
2 MERRILEE BANIC, NRR/Generic Communications 3 Branch 4 JOHN CASSIDY, Region III 5 GREG CASTO, NRR/DSS/Balance-of-Plant Branch 6 JOHN ELLEGOOD, Senior Resident Inspector, 7 Palisades Nuclear Plant Region III 8 STEVEN GARRY, NRR/Health Physics and Human 9 Performance Branch 10 JACK GIESSNER, Region III/Division of Reactor 11 Projects/Branch IV 12 VIJAY GOEL, NRR/EEEB 13 MATTHEW HAMM, NRR/Technical Specifications 14 Branch 15 LOIS JAMES, NRR/EQVB 16 ROBERT LERCH, Region III/Division of Reactor 17 Projects/Branch IV 18 ROBERT PETTIS, NRR/DE/EQVB 19 KEVIN ROCHE, NRR/DIRS/IPAB 20 ANTHONY ULSES, NRR/DSS/Reactor Systems Branch 21 JAY WALLACE, NRR/DCI/Piping and NDE Branch 22 23 ALSO PRESENT:
24 BARBARA DOTSON, Entergy Nuclear/Palisades 25 JIM KUEMIN, Entergy Nuclear/Palisades 26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (1:00 p.m.)
3 MR. CHAWLA: Good afternoon. I would like 4 to thank everybody for attending this meeting. My 5 name is Mac Chawla. And I am the Palisades Nuclear 6 Plant Project Manager.
7 We are here today to allow the petitioner, 8 Mike Mulligan, to address the Petition Review Board 9 regarding the 2.206 petition dated February 22, 2011.
10 I am the Petition Manager for the petition. The 11 Petition Review Board Chairman is Ted Quay.
12 As far as the Petition Review Board's, or 13 PRB's, review of this petition, Mike Mulligan has 14 requested this opportunity to address the PRB. This 15 meeting is scheduled from 1:00 to 2:00 p.m. Eastern 16 Daylight Time.
17 The meeting is being recorded by the NRC 18 Operations Center and will be transcribed by a court 19 reporter. The transcript will become a supplement to 20 the petition. The transcript will also be made 21 publicly available.
22 I would like to open this meeting with 23 introductions. As you go around the room, please be 24 sure to clearly state your name, your position, and 25 the office that you work for within the NRC for the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 record.
2 I will start off. Again, my name is Mac 3 Chawla. And I am the Petition Manager. We go around 4 here.
5 MR. GOEL: My name is Vijay Goel, 6 electrical engineer from the Office of Nuclear Reactor 7 Regulation, Electrical Engineering Branch.
8 MR. WALLACE: Jay Wallace, materials 9 engineer, NRR, Division of Component Integrity.
10 MS. RUSSELL: Andrea Russell, 2.206 11 Coordinator.
12 MS. JAMES: Lois James, Office Allegation 13 Coordinator, NRR.
14 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Ted Quay, Petition Review 15 Board Chairman, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation.
16 MR. PETTIS: Bob Pettis, senior reactor 17 engineer, Division of Engineering, NRR.
18 MR. CASTO: Greg Casto, Balance-of-Plant 19 Branch Chief, Division of Safety Systems, NRR.
20 MR. ULSES: And this is Anthony Ulses, the 21 Branch Chief of the Reactor Systems Branch in the 22 Division of Safety Systems, NRR.
23 MS. BANIC: Lee Banic, Generic 24 Communications Branch, NRR.
25 MR. HAMM: Matthew Hamm, reactor systems NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 1 engineer, NRR Technical Specifications Branch.
2 MR. CHAWLA: Okay. We have completed 3 introductions at the NRC headquarters. At this time 4 are there NRC participants from headquarters on the 5 phone? Please introduce yourselves.
6 MS. MENSAH: Tanya Mensah, NRR.
7 MR. CHAWLA: Steven Garry, I believe you 8 are on. Steve Garry? Steve Garry, are you on the 9 phone?
10 MR. GARRY: Yes, Steve Garry is on the 11 phone, senior health physicist, NRR.
12 MR. CHAWLA: Okay. Anybody else from 13 headquarters on the phone?
14 (No response.)
15 MR. CHAWLA: I believe that is all we 16 have. Are there any NRC participants from the 17 regional office on the phone? Please introduce 18 yourself.
19 MR. LERCH: All right. My name is Robert 20 Lerch. I'm the project engineer for Branch IV in 21 Region III.
22 MR. GIESSNER: Jack Giessner, Branch 23 Chief, Region III, responsible for inspections at 24 Palisades.
25 MR. CASSIDY: John Cassidy, senior health NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 physicist in the Division of Reactor Safety, Region 2 III.
3 MR. LERCH: That's it for the region.
4 MR. ELLEGOOD: This is John Ellegood, 5 senior resident inspector for the NRC at Palisades.
6 MR. CHAWLA: Are there any representatives 7 for the licensee on the phone?
8 MR. KUEMIN: Jim Kuemin from Palisades 9 Licensing Department.
10 MS. DOTSON: And also Barb Dotson, 11 Palisades Licensing.
12 MR. CHAWLA: Okay. I believe that's it 13 for the licensee. Mr. Mulligan, would you please 14 introduce yourself for the record?
15 MR. MULLIGAN: I'm Mike Mulligan. And I 16 had a 2.206 back a little while ago on the fuel pool.
17 And I am a whistle-blower. I have been involved with 18 a lot of whistle-blowing activities. And I was --
19 worked as -- I was in submarines. And then I worked 20 at a nuclear power plant as a reactor operator. And 21 thank you.
22 MR. CHAWLA: It is not required for 23 members of the public to introduce themselves for this 24 call. However, if there are any members of the public 25 on the phone that wish to do so at this time, please NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 state your name for the record.
2 (No response.)
3 MR. CHAWLA: Hearing none, I believe there 4 is no members of the public here.
5 I would like to emphasize that we each 6 need to speak clearly and loudly to make sure that the 7 Court Reporter can accurately transcribe this meeting.
8 If you do have something that you would like to say, 9 please first state your name for the record.
10 For those dialing into the meeting, please 11 remember to mute your phones to minimize any 12 background noise or distractions. If you do not have 13 a MUTE button, this can be done by pressing the keys 14 *6. To unmute, press the *6 key again. Thank you.
15 At this time I will turn it over to the 16 PRB Chairman, Mr. Ted Quay.
17 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Good afternoon. Welcome 18 to this meeting regarding the 2.206 petition submitted 19 by Mr. Mulligan. I would like to first share some 20 background on our process.
21 Section 2.206 of Title X of the Code of 22 Federal Regulations describes the petition process, 23 the primary mechanism for the public to request 24 enforcement action by the NRC in a public process.
25 This process permits anyone to petition NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 the NRC to take enforcement-type action related to NRC 2 licensees or licensed activities. Depending upon the 3 results of its evaluation, NRC could modify, suspend, 4 or revoke an NRC-issued license or take any other 5 appropriate enforcement action to resolve a problem.
6 The NRC staff guidance on the disposition of 2.206 7 petition requests is a management directive, 8.11, 8 which is publicly available.
9 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 10 the petitioner an opportunity to provide any 11 additional explanation or support for the petition 12 before the Petition Review Board's initial 13 consideration and recommendation.
14 This meeting is not a hearing, nor is it 15 an opportunity for the petitioner to question or 16 examine the Petition Review Board on the merits or the 17 issues presented in the petition request. No decision 18 regarding the merits of the petition will be made at 19 this meeting.
20 Following this meeting, the Petition 21 Review Board will conduct its internal deliberations.
22 The outcome of this internal meeting will be discussed 23 with the petitioner.
24 The Petition Review Board typically 25 consists of a chairman, usually a manager at the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 Senior Executive Service level at the NRC. It has a 2 petition manager and a Petition Review Board 3 coordinator. Other members of the Board are 4 determined by the NRC staff based on the content of 5 the information in the petition request.
6 At this time I would like to introduce the 7 Board. I am Ted Quay, the Petition Review Board 8 Chairman. Mac Chawla is the Petition Manager for the 9 petition under discussion today. Andrea Russell is 10 the 2.206 Coordinator. Our technical staff includes 11 Greg Casto, Branch Chief from the Office of Nuclear 12 Reactor Regulation's Balance-of-Plant Branch; Tony 13 Ulses, Branch Chief from the Office of Nuclear Reactor 14 Regulation's Reactor Systems Branch; Lois James, 15 Senior Office Allegation Coordinator from NRR's 16 Quality and Vendor Branch; Bob Pettis, senior reactor 17 engineer from NRR's Quality and Vendor Branch; Vijay 18 Goel, electrical engineer from NRR's Electrical 19 Engineering Branch; Jay Wallace, material engineer 20 from NRR's Piping and NDE Branch; Matt Hamm, reactor 21 systems engineer from NRR's Technical Specification 22 Branch; Steven Garry, senior health physicist from 23 NRR's Health Physics and Human Performance Branch; 24 Jack Giessner, Branch Chief, Branch IV from Region 25 III, Division of Reactor Projects; Bob Lerch, project NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 engineer, Branch IV from Region III's Division of 2 Reactor Projects; and John Ellegood, senior resident 3 inspector, Palisades Nuclear Plant from Region III.
4 As described in our process, the NRC staff 5 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 6 understand the petitioner's presentation and to reach 7 a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject the 8 petitioner's request for review under the 2.206 9 process.
10 I would like to summarize the scope of the 11 petition under consideration and the NRC activities to 12 date. On February 22nd, 2011, Mr. Mulligan submitted 13 to the NRC a petition under the 2.206 process 14 regarding Palisades Nuclear Plant located in Van Buren 15 County, Michigan.
16 In his petition request, Mr. Mulligan 17 identified the following areas of concern. Mr.
18 Mulligan stated that the reactor oversight program is 19 ineffective and Entergy has a documented history of a 20 culture of falsification and thumbing their noses at 21 recurring violations.
22 In his petition, Mr. Mulligan requested 23 the following actions: one, immediate shutdown of 24 Palisades and other Entergy nuclear power plants; two, 25 replacement of top Palisades management staff; three, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 replacement of Entergy corporate nuclear staff; four, 2 assignment of two additional NRC inspectors at 3 Palisades; five, formation of a local public oversight 4 panel around every plant; six, formation of an 5 emergency NRC senior official oversight panel; seven, 6 formation of a national NRC oversight public panel; 7 eight, analysis of Entergy's reoccurring problems; 8 and, nine, evaluation of NRC Region III resources.
9 As the basis for this request, Mr.
10 Mulligan cited various plant events/issues, which 11 could be divided into the following categories: one, 12 equipment failures; two, documentation or design basis 13 concerns; three, radiation protection; four, records 14 falsification; and, five, reactor oversight process.
15 Allow me to discuss the NRC activities to 16 date. On February 24th, 2011, Mr. Mulligan requested 17 an opportunity to address the Petition Review Board by 18 phone.
19 On March 2nd, 2011, Mr. Mulligan made an 20 additional request to speak to an NRC official 21 regarding the general state of conditions at Palisades 22 prior to addressing the PRB.
23 On March 3rd, 2011, the PRB met internally 24 to discuss the request for immediate action only. The 25 PRB denied the request for immediate action because NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 there were no immediate safety concerns to the plant 2 or to health and safety of the public.
3 On March 4th, 2011, the Petition Review 4 Board's decision was conveyed to Mr. Mulligan. Mr.
5 Mulligan was also informed that the request to speak 6 to an NRC official was outside the 2.206 process and 7 he would have the opportunity during the phone call 8 with the PRB to address his concerns and provide 9 additional information.
10 As a reminder for the phone participants, 11 please identify yourself if you make any remarks as 12 this will help in the preparation of the meeting 13 transcript that will be made publicly available.
14 Thank you.
15 And at this point I will turn it over to 16 you, Mr. Mulligan.
17 MR. MULLIGAN: Thank you. Thank you for 18 this opportunity this afternoon. I hope I am talking 19 loud enough that people can hear me.
20 CHAIRMAN QUAY: We can hear you fine.
21 MR. MULLIGAN: The first, this is -- well, 22 this is the second H. B. Robinson plant this year or 23 within the last year or so and stuff, Wolf Creek. And 24 I'm reading this from the Professional Reactor 25 Operator Society. And it's about Wolf Creek recent NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 1 inspection findings. "Based on the recent results of 2 the inspections, the NRC" -- this is -- PROS just came 3 out with this today. Based on the recent results of 4 the inspections, the NRC identified 11 violations. A 5 number of findings" -- well, we won't go into that, 6 but there's a lot of stuff there.
7 The NRC -- and here is a comment by Bob 8 Meyer, who is the head honcho of PROS, "The industry 9 needs to get a grip on poor procedures, procedure 10 backlogs or an event could occur that will halt any 11 nuclear construction in this country."
12 He goes on to list all of the findings of 13 that Wolf Creek event or inspection thing. And he 14 goes on to say, "The procedure exists. The procedure 15 issues exist at every plant out there. The NRC and 16 INPO executives have been informed of the fleet not 17 controlling backlogs and procedures. The numbers of 18 issues point towards an event, a significant event if 19 you did not get procedures backlogs under control."
20 You know, H. B. Robinson basically was an 21 event that, you know, really, there were so many 22 things involved in there, training, equipment 23 problems, simulator fidelity. You know, it's just 24 mind-boggling.
25 But I listen to you guys, you NRC guys, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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14 1 identify yourselves. All I can think about, your 2 college education, I mean, all the years you -- you 3 know, collectively it's tremendous and all the 4 experience that you have around these plants and stuff 5 like that. You know, I know you guys are really smart 6 and educated and stuff like that. And it's 7 astonishing.
8 And the H. B. Robinson event was, you 9 know, a couple of little more problems than you might 10 have had at the TMI event. Basically this Wolf Creek 11 kind of they went to a shutdown. They got into all 12 sorts of troubles, simulator fidelity problems, 13 procedure problems, problems with the license 14 operators and stuff like that.
15 I mean, hey, there's something going on 16 here. A lot of people recognize it. And that is what 17 I have been trying to do, is to get everybody's 18 attention and stop fiddling around and fix the 19 problems and stuff like that.
20 I mean, I have talked a lot on this 2.206 21 about Vermont Yankee. It's all basically the same 22 thing. And, you know, there's -- typically with all 23 of us, you know, our country sets limit. If you go 24 past the law, there's usually a punishment. There's 25 some sort of activity that is done to us that forces NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 us to engage the problem. You know, there's a 2 punishment. And then, finally, we get it. Either we 3 pay a terrible price or we recognize that we have been 4 wrong and there is something about what we think of 5 ourselves as wrong. And we realize we have to change 6 ourselves. You know?
7 The way you guys handle it is you get into 8 problems or you get into a set of issues. And then 9 the next thing you do is you think that in order to 10 fix it, you've got to write another rule or you've got 11 to ramp up complexity, you've got to put it into the 12 RCA or to corrective actions, you've got to sit there, 13 write more rules and procedures.
14 You are paper-whipping, I think. You 15 paper whip. You are paper-whipping people with more 16 rules and laws that are generally not enforced. And 17 there's -- you know, there's just not enough.
18 Something is not put in front of you where you sit 19 there and you say, "Wow." You know, something is 20 going on, and I've got to change my ways.
21 And that is what I am trying to get at 22 with Palisades and Vermont Yankee also and stuff.
23 When are we really going to come to our senses? You 24 know, this thing isn't an endeavor to make profits.
25 It's not only that. There's so much riding on this.
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16 1 Twenty percent of our electricity is 2 produced by nuclear power. If we was to lose 3 confidence in the nuclear industry, it's bad enough in 4 this environment where nobody trusts government. You 5 know, it's mind-boggling the consequences if we lost 6 numerous plans because, you know, we lost confidence 7 and people telling us the truth.
8 We got, you know, potentially the new 9 nukes coming on and stuff like that. And, you know, 10 I tell you right now if the NRC is -- this 11 mealy-mouthed stuff keeps going on and especially 12 reactor construction and if they don't nip it in the 13 bud and if they're not tough, we've going into the 14 1970s all over again. It's going to be the same 15 thing. You're going to go hide behind your closed 16 doors and debate the procedures until it is sickening.
17 They're going to build the plants out.
18 Then you're going to say, "Oh. Well, we" 19 -- then there's going to be a public response. And 20 then the next thing you know, you know, everybody is 21 doing the same thing they did in the '70s, you know, 22 adding on components after the fact and just barely 23 getting the plants online if they're lucky and stuff.
24 So there's a lot of things on the line 25 here. And we've seen -- you know, typically a lot of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 these institutional problems, you know, we see them.
2 Before the accident, we consider them walking on 3 water. We consider them -- it's a falsification 4 because if we knew what it really was before the 5 accident what was going on, we would stop it. We 6 would step in there with authority and power. And we 7 would get their attention. And they would change 8 their ways.
9 So like the Gulf of Mexico, you know, 10 beforehand, BP was -- well, we knew in the background 11 a lot of other activities BP was doing. You know, 12 nothing surprised us. But with the Gulf, we thought 13 they were walking on water. They were doing 14 everything right. Most of the public bought that and 15 stuff like that.
16 And the pattern always is after the 17 accident, after the billions of dollars after we pick 18 up the body parts, we discover retroactively that it 19 was a garbage pit and stuff. And this happened at all 20 of our institutional accidents from NASA to Katrina, 21 our economic troubles with Washington and stuff like 22 that.
23 We don't recognize the situation 24 beforehand and turn the direction of the industry.
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18 1 on, clearly document it, clearly explain what is going 2 on to the public, and give us the opportunity to 3 interact with our environment and stuff like that.
4 And then after the accident, you know, 5 then the Blue Ribbon Commission and all that sort of 6 stuff comes out. And you find out that it was a train 7 wreck before the accident. I mean, it was clear and 8 obvious to everybody a train wreck was coming or, you 9 know, the information kind of tells you they have to 10 know that a train wreck was on the way.
11 Why didn't they stop it? Why aren't they 12 thinking about our country and what is best for all of 13 us? How come? This can't make sense all these kinds 14 of accidents happening and we just let it happen.
15 It's not like they come out of nowhere. We discover 16 after this terrible accident that the system was -- it 17 was a garbage dump.
18 Repetitive things happen over and over 19 again. And the thing that made them finally -- the 20 things finally gave out, you know, gave out before, 21 many times, and had problems. And people just ignored 22 it. But that's the message that I am trying to get 23 across.
24 Again, you know, procedures and rules and 25 federal regulations and congressional intent and stuff NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 like that, I mean, you can look at these things in two 2 different ways. You can say, "I'm going to use my 3 authority. And I'm going to use the rules and 4 regulation, the tools that the United States needs to 5 be in the United Sates, the country. And I'm going to 6 use them for a good intent or I'm going to use them 7 for self-interest intent." You know what I'm saying?
8 I mean, just because you're following the 9 rules doesn't say it's right. Just because you're 10 following the procedure doesn't say it's right.
11 We're astonishing, smart people, all of 12 us, and stuff. You know, I've studied a lot about the 13 brain and the stuff that goes on inside our brains and 14 the different levels in our brain that work 15 altogether. They've got specific areas. Then they're 16 all connected holistically and they operate the same 17 kind of -- it's amazing how smart we are and even the 18 stupid ones, the most stupid ones, of us.
19 I'm not making fun of disability or 20 anything like that, but we're astonishing, our ability 21 to do things and set the course right and figure out 22 who we finally are and then do the right thing.
23 You know, I've seen this so many different 24 times. I see the worst. And I also see the 25 astonishing ability that us humans have to be smart, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 to figure out the small events that are erupting and 2 to interact with it and make our lives better. What 3 is going on now is -- I don't know what we're doing.
4 We're following the rules.
5 What is that new movie that just came out, 6 The Adjustment Bureau or whatever it is, and stuff 7 like that, where a man and a woman meet each other and 8 they start liking each other and then The Adjustment 9 Bureau doesn't want them to stay together, get to know 10 each other because it will change the course of 11 history.
12 Well, you know -- and then you find out 13 they're just following the rules, right? These guys, 14 these Adjustment Bureau people, saints if you want to 15 call them that, are just following the rules. And 16 nobody knows why they are following the rules. And, 17 you know, they're happy following the rules but why?
18 To what end and stuff? And, you know, we follow the 19 rules to make our lives better. And we have to start 20 thinking about that, the rules, regulations, 21 procedures, and stuff.
22 We're better than what this shows, what 23 the stuff with Palisades shows and Vermont Yankee and 24 Entergy and H. B. Robinson. I mean, I don't know.
25 With everybody's education and stuff, we're better NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 1 than what is going on here in the nuclear industry.
2 And we've got so much consequences up in 3 front of us if we don't screw our heads on right.
4 We're either losing our fleet now or having an energy 5 problem. And when it gets deep enough that we have to 6 -- a false sense in the nuclear industry more that 7 we're not going to be prepared. We're not going to 8 have the credibility to do what is in our national 9 interest.
10 You know, people call me anti-nuke and 11 stuff like that, but, you know, I am an anti-nuke.
12 Sometimes I'm the best and the most pro-nuclear person 13 in the United States because I am just trying to do 14 what is right and bring attention to what is going on 15 here.
16 And to figure out -- you know, Entergy has 17 to kind of figure out what is going on with all of 18 these plants. They have to be forthright about it and 19 explain to us what is going on so we all have a role 20 and a fix on what is going on and stuff.
21 You know, we live in the United States.
22 We are an open democracy. We are supposed to not be 23 hidden behind barriers. What makes our country great, 24 one thing is our Constitution. And that allows us to 25 see what is going on in the government. And I think NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 1 that is a way of life.
2 You know, we are not supposed to be hidden 3 by corporate secrecy and individual secrecy. What 4 makes our nation great is everybody can see what is 5 going on. I know we are kind of a little bit bound, 6 but I'm telling you that is what is beautiful about 7 the United States is transparency, being able to see 8 everything, being involved in our nation and every 9 component of it, our energy and stuff.
10 And a lot of this stuff seems to be more 11 and more from us, and we can't see what is going on.
12 And we can't help you guys if we can't see what is 13 going on. We can't help you guys straighten out.
14 And I think that is part of the role of 15 being in the United States, that, you know, you have 16 private enterprise and we get to see what is going on.
17 And we kind of make a decision on the direction of our 18 nation and stuff. And, you know, I worry about that 19 we can't see what is going on anymore.
20 And, you know, I have done this 2.206 21 business so many times. You know what my big problem 22 is. I don't have access to the real facts. Sometimes 23 I hear it from employees. Most of the times I read 24 the inspection report and stuff like that.
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23 1 of the world as far as I worked in the industry. I 2 know more than most, you know, what the 95 percent of 3 the stuff that is going on that is not reported and 4 stuff like that. I know that. And I'm sure the NRC 5 knows that they are only getting a view of five 6 percent of the utilities world. I know that it is 7 just too complicated.
8 And I want everybody to be aware we don't 9 have a perfect vision of what is going on in the 10 Palisades plant. And that worries me because I think 11 if we knew what was going on, number one, Entergy 12 would behave better.
13 Number two, if we knew what was going on, 14 we would make them straighten out not because we hate 15 them or we're punishing them or they're on them but 16 because we all want to be -- we all want to belong to 17 a country and we all want to be doing better and doing 18 well. I mean, that is my vision of the United States.
19 So, you know, I never -- you know, the 20 VT-2 bothers me particularly with this, the VT-2.
21 Your last inspection report, you had a VT-2 22 inspection. They didn't do the inspection according 23 to ASME. That is the visual inspection on the reactor 24 vessel or the control rod drive mechanisms. And then 25 the next inspection report, they're having procedure NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 1 problems on the VT-2.
2 You know, like I said, most plants take 3 pictures of all of this. And so, you know, you have 4 got a visual representation of what is going on.
5 I didn't read it. Like I told you, I've 6 seen at other plants they take pictures. And I'm 7 surprised that with Palisades, they're not taking 8 pictures of the inspection of the core, stuff like 9 that.
10 You know, there's a feeling I have that if 11 you -- like me. I live my personal life. I'm pretty 12 transparent. You know, I explain what's going on.
13 I'll tell you the stupid things I'm doing and stuff.
14 You know, I think that's a better way to live.
15 And then people give me feedback and stuff 16 like that or they do. And some of it I fling over my 17 shoulder. Other stuff I listen to it. I think that's 18 the best way to be is to be open and honest and 19 interact with everybody, listen to everybody's point 20 of view, plus and minus, and take a ton of that.
21 You know, hiding, even if hiding is 22 according to the rules, I don't think that's good for 23 us. I think that allows us to do things that we 24 wouldn't normally do if people could see us. If we 25 had the idea that, "Oh, the whole community is going NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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25 1 to be watching me doing this VT-2 inspection, I'll 2 damn well get it straight. I damn well will get it 3 straight and look at the procedures and know my stuff 4 before I get out there and make an idiot of myself."
5 I just think this sense of secrecy for a 6 host of reasons and stuff like that, you know, some of 7 it is good, but I think it's gone so far overboard 8 nobody can see what is going on. And I think that is 9 the problem, a lot of the problem.
10 My wish is that everybody would come to 11 their senses, especially the NRC. We think that they 12 are criticized because of -- they're an independent 13 agency. In other words, they ain't worried about the 14 President. They are worried about a couple of 15 congressmen flailing around in the media and a couple 16 of House members holding up their budgets and 17 intimidating NRC commissioners. We think that the 18 framework makes the NRC more beholding to these 19 pipsqueak senators and House of Representatives people 20 than if they were if they were under the Executive 21 Branch.
22 So, you know, I think that the framework 23 of an independent agency -- you know, that was all 24 made during another era. And it was a dirty era. And 25 I think we would be better honestly if the agency was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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26 1 under the Executive Branch.
2 So I'm hoping everybody comes to their 3 senses, Entergy and the NRC, and, you know, hope for 4 that day that everybody would come to their senses and 5 we would have something out there that we would all be 6 proud of. We would all say, you know, "We did it" or 7 "We came back from so far. And we were so deep in the 8 hole. And we came back such a long distance. And 9 we're so strong now."
10 So, anyways, I thank you very much for 11 giving me this opportunity. I hope you listen to me.
12 Thank you.
13 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Okay. At this time does 14 anyone here at headquarters have any questions for Mr.
15 Mulligan?
16 (No response.)
17 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Does any of the 18 headquarters staff on the phone have any questions for 19 Mr. Mulligan?
20 MR. GARRY: No, Steve Garry does not.
21 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Okay. What about the 22 region? Does the region have any questions for Mr.
23 Mulligan?
24 MR. GIESSNER: Jack Giessner. No 25 questions from the region at this time.
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27 1 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Okay. Before I conclude 2 the meeting, members of the public may provide 3 comments regarding the petition and ask questions 4 about the 2.206 process. However, as stated at the 5 opening, the purpose of this meeting is not to provide 6 an opportunity for the petitioner or the public to 7 question or examine the Petition Review Board 8 regarding the merits of the petition request.
9 Is there any member of the public that 10 wishes to make a comment?
11 (No response.)
12 CHAIRMAN QUAY: I don't think any were 13 identified, but I heard some beeps. I don't know if 14 someone got on.
15 Okay. Mr. Mulligan, thank you for taking 16 time to provide the NRC staff with clarifying 17 information on the petition you have submitted.
18 Before we close, does the Court Reporter 19 need any additional information for the meeting 20 transcript?
21 THE REPORTER: Hi. This is the Court 22 Reporter. I just want to provide Mr. Chawla with my 23 e-mail address so he can send me a list of the 24 participants.
25 MR. CHAWLA: Okay. Please. I will go NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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28 1 ahead and write it down.
2 THE REPORTER: Okay. My e-mail address is 3 kjgamin@gmail.com.
4 MR. CHAWLA: Okay. Let me just repeat 5 it.. Kjgamin@gmail.com?
6 THE REPORTER: That's right.
7 MR. CHAWLA: Okay. I will provide you the 8 list of the people, participants here.
9 THE REPORTER: Thank you.
10 MR. CHAWLA: Okay. Thanks.
11 CHAIRMAN QUAY: With that, then, this 12 meeting is concluded. And we will be terminating the 13 phone connection.
14 MR. MULLIGAN: Thank you very much.
15 CHAIRMAN QUAY: Thank you.
16 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter was 17 concluded at 1:37 p.m.)
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