ML19296D062
| ML19296D062 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palisades  |
| Issue date: | 08/21/2019 |
| From: | Office of Nuclear Material Safety and Safeguards |
| To: | |
| Smith T | |
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| References | |
| NRC-0505 | |
| Download: ML19296D062 (74) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Nuclear Energy Innovation and Modernization Act (NEIMA)
Section 108 Public Meeting Docket Number: N/A Location: Benton Harbor, Michigan Date: August 21, 2019 Work Order No.: NRC-0505 Pages 1-72 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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NUCLEAR ENERGY INNOVATION AND MODERNIZATION ACT (NEIMA) SECTION 108
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WEDNESDAY AUGUST 21, 2019
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The Public Meeting was convened in the Hanson Theatre of Mendel Center at Lake Michigan College, 2755 East Napier Avenue, Benton Harbor, Michigan at 6:00 p.m., Bruce Watson, Facilitator, presiding.
PRESENT:
BRUCE WATSON, Reactor Decom. Branch Chief KIM CONWAY, Project Manager TED SMITH, Project Manager JACK GIESNNER, Region III Deputy Administrator NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 MR. WATSON: Thank you for joining us.
3 My name is Bruce Watson, Im Chief of the Reactor 4 Decommissioning Branch in the Office of Nuclear 5 Material Safety and Safeguards at NRC=s headquarters 6 in Washington, DC. Im joined this evening by a 7 couple of members of my staff. I have Ted Smith on 8 my left here, and Kim Conway on my right. They are 9 both project managers in my group.
10 We are here this evening to conduct a 11 meeting to briefly present information on the 12 decommissioning process for commercial nuclear power 13 plants, and mostly to obtain feedback and suggestions 14 from you on Community Advisory Board best practices.
15 We recognize that you do not have a CAB or a citizens 16 advisory board right now, but we know there are issues 17 that you are passionate about or have an interest in.
18 We chose Palisades to hold a meeting 19 because we received a number of requests from the 20 public, and then the law had asked us to consider 21 geographical diversity in holding these meetings.
22 So, Michigan was chosen.
23 Were going to try to avoid overloading 24 you with a lot of jargon and acronyms at this time 25 this evening, but unfortunately, sometimes we just NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 find ourselves inescapably doing those things. You 2 will hear the word NEIMA mentioned numerous times.
3 It stands for the Nuclear Energy Innovation and 4 Modernization Act. It was passed by the Congress in 5 late December, and signed by the President on January 6 14th of this year.
7 NEIMA has several requirements for the 8 Nuclear Regulatory Commission, one of which is why we 9 are here this evening. In Section 108, NEIMA requires 10 the NRC to prepare a report to Congress on the best 11 practices for Community Advisory Boards in the 12 communities around decommissioning nuclear power 13 plants. It also requires the NRC to hold a minimum 14 of 10 meetings, and this is within the emergency 15 planning zone of a decommissioning plant. Since 16 Palisades is preparing I guess for decommissioning in 17 the near future with the announcement that this plant 18 would be shutting down in 2022, we felt it appropriate 19 to be here tonight.
20 Since we cant hold meetings at every 21 nuclear power plant presently in decommissioning, we 22 also held a webinar on August 8th. How many of you 23 were able to participate in that? Good, good, good!
24 Were going to repeat some of that just to refresh 25 what we said in that particular webinar about NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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5 1 decommissioning and, excuse me, Community Advisory 2 Boards.
3 Again, our goal tonight is to provide a 4 brief overview of the NRCs experience with 5 decommissioning, with the recognition that this may 6 be new for many of you since the Palisades recently 7 announced those plans.
8 So, the picture that is up on the slide 9 is a picture of Yankee Rowe which is in Massachusetts.
10 It underwent decommissioning, and the license was 11 terminated I believe in 2007. But that was part of 12 the reactor containment being cut up.
13 So, on the next slide please, first, let 14 me tell you how things will proceed tonight. First, 15 I need you to know that the NRC calls this a category 16 three meeting, which means we are to hear your 17 comments on citizens advisory board. We will be in 18 listening mode for as much as possible. Some 19 introductions and a brief presentation on the 20 decommissioning process and our experience will 21 hopefully set the stage for comments and discussion 22 which will follow.
23 We want to thank the Mendel Center for 24 the use of the Hanson Theatre tonight. In the 25 unlikely case of an emergency, youll be notified by NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 an alarm or an announcement, and should proceed 2 through the marked doors located at the front or the 3 back of the room that have exit signs. Restrooms are 4 located outside the doors and down the hall to the 5 left and right.
6 I would like to provide you a few ground 7 rules before we go to the comment session, and well 8 do that right after we go through our presentation.
9 So, with that, Im going to turn it over to Ted Smith 10 who will provide some additional information.
11 MR. SMITH: Thank you, Bruce. So, our 12 decommissioning regulations are performance-based and 13 risk-informed. What that really means is that we 14 focus on things that are important to safety. We 15 also have extensive decommissioning experience. As 16 you can see in this graphic, weve regulated and 17 completed the decommissioning at a lot of sites over 18 the last 20 years. In fact, the NRC has regulated 19 the completion of decommissioning at more power 20 reactors than in all of the countries in the world 21 combined. NRC has completed decommissioning at about 22 75 complex material, research and test reactor, and 23 commercial power plants over the last 20 years.
24 So, now let me talk a little more locally.
25 I want to point out that weve had some NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 decommissioning activities in Michigan. So, were 2 going to highlight some that have been completed, 3 some that are underway, or that we expect to begin in 4 the near future.
5 At the top of the figure is Big Rock Point 6 which was a 75 megawatt boiling water reactor in 7 Charlevoix County; Breckenridge in the middle, and 8 AAR in Detroit were complex material sites in which 9 weve completed decommissioning activities. Ford was 10 a research reactor with the University of Michigan 11 which has completed decommissioning. Fermi 1 was a 12 fast breeder liquid sodium reactor in Monroe County, 13 which is about 95 percent completed to the 14 decommissioning process. Palisades here in Covert is 15 still operational but, as Bruce mentioned, the 16 licensee has announced their plans for permanent 17 shutdown in 2022.
18 So, Im going to talk a little bit more 19 about these, just show you some pictures and talk 20 through them in the next few slides.
21 AAR in Livonia, so here we have an aerial 22 of the site in 2007 when we did some initial 23 decommissioning. Then we went back again in the 2014 24 timeframe and did some more. You can see what the 25 site looks like in 2018. The property owner did do NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 some additional building removal after they had 2 completed the radiological decommissioning.
3 The University of Michigan Ford reactor, 4 heres pictures in 2013, and about -- Im sorry, 5 excuse me, let me correct that date. The original 6 picture is from 1955. It was first operated in 57.
7 It completed decommissioning in 2013.
8 The next I want to talk about a little 9 bit is Big Rock Point. It completed decommissioning 10 in August 2006. In these two photos, you can see Big 11 Rock Point is named after the Big Rock which is a 12 historic landmark. Here is a picture of the plant as 13 it existed before decommissioning with the Big Rock 14 in the foreground, and a picture from where the plant 15 was of the Big Rock in the background. It was 16 licensed in 1962.
17 Moving on, Fermi 1. Fermi 1 is in 18 progress of decommissioning. In here you can see 19 photos of the original construction of loading as it 20 was when it was operational, and then a more recent 21 photo from the 1990's. So, the licensee has removed 22 the majority of the reactor material from the site.
23 Theres no spent fuel on site. The bulk sodium, the 24 reactor vessel, primary system piping, and major 25 components have been removed.
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9 1 The site consists of six main buildings 2 and several smaller gallery buildings and 3 interconnections. Physical dismantling is 95 percent 4 complete, and about 99 percent of radioactivity is 5 removed.
6 So, now lets shift a little bit and talk 7 about NEIMA. Just to expand a little more, as Bruce 8 mentioned, this is the Nuclear Energy Innovation and 9 Modernization Act. Specifically, there are a lot of 10 sections to NEIMA. Were here tonight to talk about 11 Section 108, and Section 108 directed the NRC to have 12 public meetings on best practices for CABs.
13 So, the legislation was signed on January 14 14th. That Section 108 requires a report identifying 15 best practices for establishment and operation of 16 local Community Advisory Boards for the 17 decommissioning of nuclear power reactors, including 18 lessons learned from citizens advisory boards that 19 are in existence. A report is due to Congress by 20 July 14th, 2020. The task has been assigned to 21 Bruces branch in which Kim and I reside.
22 A federal register notice was published 23 soliciting comments for public meetings to discuss 24 the CAB best practices. That was issued on March 25 18th, 2019. The public meeting locations were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 determined in June of this year, and then we just 2 recently completed a process through the OMB by which 3 we get clearance to ask the questions. So, that was 4 completed on August 8th, and those questions, that 5 questionnaire has been posted on our website.
6 On that, Ill turn the presentation over 7 to Kim.
8 MS. CONWAY: Thanks, Ted. Before we 9 elaborate on the decommissioning process, we thought 10 it would be useful to provide a simple definition of 11 the goal of decommissioning. As we state on this 12 slide, the NRCs overarching objective is to ensure 13 that any residual radioactivity is within federal 14 limits so that the site may be released for 15 unrestricted use in the future.
16 So, how does the decommissioning process 17 actually work? The NRC requirements are designed to 18 protect workers and the public throughout the 19 decommissioning process, and the public environment 20 after the plants license is terminated. The NRC has 21 strict rules governing nuclear power plant 22 decommissioning and the storage of spent nuclear 23 fuel. The NRC communicates with the public during 24 the decommissioning process in many ways, including 25 publicly available licensing documents, inspection NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 reports, public meetings, congressional briefings, 2 and updates to state and local government officials.
3 The NRC also strongly encourages the 4 creation of Community Advisory Boards, or CABs, to 5 enhance the free flow of information about 6 decommissioning activities between the licensee, 7 local officials, and the public. Well talk more 8 about the establishment of CABs as well as those 9 boards already in existence later in this 10 presentation.
11 Even before a plant shuts down, 12 activities are ongoing that will help with the 13 decommissioning process. While operating, the 14 licensee maintains records important to 15 decommissioning such as financial records, records 16 related to radioactive spills, material history at 17 the site, annual reports of plant operations, 18 radiological and environmental monitoring reports, 19 things of that nature. Additionally, once the 20 licensee has decided to permanently cease operations, 21 other planning activities begin, including the 22 identification and selection of a decommissioning 23 strategy, which well discuss later, and site 24 characterization. The licensee can also prepare and 25 submit a decommissioning planning document called the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 post-shutdown decommissioning activities report, or 2 PSDAR, before the plant shuts down.
3 There are several steps that take place 4 in conjunction with the permanent shutdown of a US 5 nuclear power plant. These steps are spelled out in 6 the NRC regulations. Once the reactor has been 7 operated for the last time, the plant owner must first 8 submit a written certification to the NRC that they 9 have permanently ceased operations within 30 days of 10 their decision to not continue operations. Next, 11 when nuclear fuel has been permanently removed from 12 the reactor, the owner must submit another written 13 certification to the NRC.
14 Once these two notifications have been 15 made, by law, the company is not authorized to operate 16 the reactor again. They cant reload fuel into the 17 reactor vessel. They can no longer operate the plant.
18 To operate the plant again, the owner would need to 19 apply for a new operating license.
20 As I mentioned earlier, prior to or 21 within two years of permanent shutdown, the NRC 22 requires the submittal of the plants PSDAR, which 23 provides a general overview of the proposed 24 decommissioning activities and schedule, as well as 25 the associated costs.
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13 1 There are different courses of actions 2 for plant owners as they plan for decommissioning.
3 They may decide to pursue immediate dismantlement 4 which we refer to as the DECON alternative. Under 5 DECON, structures and equipment related to nuclear 6 power production are decontaminated and removed.
7 Once the demolition and decontamination work is 8 completed, the company would need to demonstrate that 9 any remaining radioactivity on the site meets the 10 criteria for unrestricted release of the property.
11 Another option for plant owners is 12 placing the facility in storage for a period of time, 13 and then proceeding with dismantlement and cleanup 14 work at a future date. This alternative is referred 15 to as SAFSTOR. It involves preparing the structures 16 for long-term storage, and then monitoring them 17 throughout the storage period. Preparations for 18 SAFSTOR would include draining piping and pumps, de-19 energizing electrical systems, and securing various 20 structures.
21 Plant owners may also use a combination 22 of SAFSTOR and DECON. As an example, they may do 23 some dismantlement work, or abandon some systems in 24 place not long after the plant permanently shuts down 25 and then place the facility in storage for a number NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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14 1 of years before resuming the remainder of the 2 deconstruction. Again, confirmatory surveys of any 3 remaining residual radioactivity would need to be 4 performed once this dismantlement work is eventually 5 completed.
6 Keep in mind that it takes many years to 7 construct the power plant, and decommissioning a 8 nuclear power plant typically takes about seven to 9 ten years. Another way to think of it is a giant 10 deconstruction project. There are miles of cables 11 and pipes removed, and tons of materials hauled away.
12 Under NRC regulations, nuclear power 13 plant decommissioning must be completed within 60 14 years of shutdown. Keep in mind that this refers to 15 the portions of the site that were used for nuclear 16 power production and do not involve, for example, 17 returning the entire property to green field 18 condition.
19 The basis for the 60-year timeframe is 20 this: theres 50 years in SAFSTOR to allow 21 radioactive decay for the shorter-lived radioactive 22 materials, plus 10 years of radiological 23 decommissioning work to terminate the NRC license.
24 It is not uncommon for green fielding to 25 occur after the termination of the NRC license, such NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 as we have the Maine Yankee site shown on the bottom 2 of this slide. At the top of the slide is a photo 3 that Bruce took at Rancho Seco out in California.
4 This plant was permanently shut down in 1989, and 5 this area of the site was released in 2009. The owner 6 has not demolished any of the structures and has 7 actually built two combined cycle generating units at 8 the site to take advantage of the transmission lines 9 and the switch yard, as well as the availability of 10 a source of cooling water.
11 When a reactor ceases operation, the 12 NRCs work to ensure safety and security continues.
13 Specifically, the NRC ensures through a continuing 14 oversight process that operational safety controls, 15 security measures, and emergency preparedness remains 16 sufficient to protect public health and safety. The 17 NRCs inspection program for decommissioning of 18 nuclear power plants as well as the dry fuel storage 19 inspection program are well defined and consistent.
20 These programs are outlined in NRC Inspection Manual 21 Chapters 2561 and 2690, respectively. This is shown 22 on the slide.
23 The key objectives of these programs are 24 to verify that the spent fuel is being safely and 25 securely stored, that decommissioning activities are NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 being conducted safely, and that site operations and 2 license termination activities are performed in 3 accordance with federal regulations. When carrying 4 out these programs, our key focus is on safety and 5 security.
6 The NRCs decommissioning inspection 7 program assures that appropriate oversight continues 8 after a safe plant shutdown and the removal of spent 9 fuel from the reactor. Specifically, the reactor 10 decommissioning inspection manual has procedures 11 designated as core which are required to be performed 12 annually, and procedures listed as discretionary 13 which are to be performed on an as-needed basis, and 14 thats based on activity or issues or, you know, 15 things that we notice going on at the site.
16 I want to emphasize that oversight, 17 inspections, and monitoring are performed throughout 18 the decommissioning process. During these 19 inspections, the NRC verifies that the controls and 20 the methods for the safe storage of radioactive 21 material, including site structures and equipment, 22 are being maintained in accordance with regulations 23 and with licensee commitments. In addition, NRC 24 inspectors will be on hand for major work activities 25 at the site and at least once per year.
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17 1 Examples of major work activities could 2 include the demolition of a major structure, the 3 removal of a significant component such as the reactor 4 vessel, the transfer of spent fuel from the spent 5 fuel pool to dry cask storage, things like that. The 6 NRC can always take enforcement action against the 7 plant owner should violations be identified during 8 these activities and determined to be of that 9 significance.
10 There are some questions that frequently 11 come up regarding the management of spent fuel during 12 and after decommissioning, and our review and 13 oversight of those activities. The most asked 14 question is what becomes of the spent nuclear fuel 15 left behind from the plants operation? The current 16 answer is that, in almost all cases, its removed 17 from the spent fuel pool to be stored on site in a 18 dry cask storage insulation often called an 19 independent spent fuel storage installation, or 20 ISFSI, until an interim or a long-term disposal 21 solution is available.
22 At all nuclear reactor sites with ISFSIs, 23 the casks sit on a reinforced concrete pad within the 24 protected area of the plant. The casks themselves 25 are robust storage units approved by the NRC for use NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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18 1 throughout the nuclear industry. Typically, the fuel 2 sits in a stainless steel cask thats surrounded by 3 a thick concrete over-pack, vents at the bottom and 4 top allow for a convective airflow to keep the fuel 5 cooled. NRC inspectors who specialize in spent fuel 6 transfers and storage are on hand when the ISFSI pad 7 is being built and of course during the actual fuel 8 movements at each site.
9 With that, Ill now turn it back over to 10 Bruce to discuss public involvement and NEIMA Section 11 108 which is the reason why we are here tonight.
12 MR. WATSON: Thanks, Kim. First, Id 13 like to point out there are already multiple 14 opportunities for public participation in the 15 decommissioning process. For example, each license 16 amendment request allows for the opportunity to 17 provide public comments and request a hearing. The 18 NRC also conducts public meetings in the vicinity of 19 decommissioning nuclear power plants to discuss the 20 post-shutdown decommissioning activities report when 21 its issued to us from the utility. We also hold 22 public meetings for partial site releases and license 23 termination plans.
24 The NRC staff also frequently is invited 25 to speak on decommissioning topics at state and local NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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19 1 government hearings, meetings, and other events, and 2 routinely participate as guest presenters at citizens 3 advisory panel meetings, which really finally brings 4 us to the topic at hand for tonights meeting: best 5 practices learned from Community Advisory Boards at 6 decommissioning nuclear power plants.
7 So, what is a Community Advisory Board?
8 While no one size fits all models for decommissioning 9 CABs, some of the general tenets of such organizations 10 are listed on the slide. We should also point out 11 that CABs maybe have differing names such as community 12 engagement panels, or citizen advisory panels, or 13 something similar. As previously mentioned, the NRC 14 doesnt have the authority to direct anyone including 15 NRC licensees to sponsor or participate in the 16 decommissioning -- excuse me, I got that wrong.
17 NRC does not have the authority to direct 18 anyone but the NRC licensees to sponsor or participate 19 in the decommissioning process. For many years, we 20 have recommended that the power reactor licensees 21 involved in decommissioning activities form a 22 community committee or other advisory group aimed at 23 fostering communication and information exchange 24 between the licensee and members of the community 25 that may be affected by the decommissioning.
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20 1 So, you see on another slide, go to the 2 next one please, this has yielded fairly good 3 responsibilities, excuse me, yes, CAB 4 responsibilities. Like I said, no one size that fits 5 all for CABs, neither is there a set of single topics 6 for each board. Instead, our observations and 7 experiences have been that such decommissioning CABs 8 adopt to the specific concerns of the community and 9 region where the decommissioning is taking place.
10 Topics, whose level of interests varies 11 between the sites, include transportation of 12 radioactive waste, socioeconomic impact of the plant 13 being permanently shut down, and interim and long-14 term plans for the storage of nuclear fuel. By 15 actively engaging the community, obtaining local 16 citizens views and concerns regarding the 17 decommissioning process and spent fuel storage 18 issues, the licensees can better understand and 19 consider these views and maintain better relations 20 with the local citizens, and local communities can be 21 informed of decommissioning activities.
22 Also, if a CAB is formed in the early 23 part of the decommissioning process, the CAB can 24 provide an organized forum in which the licensee 25 serves the community by providing information on the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 1 decommissioning plans and so that local community can 2 provide feedback to the licensee and state officials 3 on the plans for dismantling, demolition, those 4 criteria, and waste transportation. While site 5 restoration is not an NRC requirement, some CABs also 6 discuss this, and it can provide input to the licensee 7 as to what they would like to see the site look like 8 once all the radioactive material is removed and 9 consider future uses of the site. Next slide please.
10 As already mentioned, the concept of a 11 decommissioning CAB is not new. Versions of these 12 organizations exist at many of the earliest nuclear 13 power plants to enter decommissioning. In 2005, the 14 Electric Power Research Institute, or EPRI, published 15 the Maine Yankee decommissioning experience report.
16 In this lessons learned report, the nuclear industry 17 recognized that engaging the local community and 18 officially forming a CAB is a good practice.
19 Specifically, the EPRI report states that 20 the CABs provide an important window for the public 21 in addressing the process, in the process of 22 decommissioning and providing the opportunity for 23 issues of local concern to be addressed both within 24 and without the strict process defined by 25 regulations. Next slide please.
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22 1 This brings us to today. Here is where 2 the CABs exist at a majority of the decommissioning 3 nuclear power plants, although they may have 4 differing compositions and invent many forms 5 depending on the factors, such as the CABs sponsors, 6 state requirements, and the topics of interest. The 7 NRC staff acknowledges the desire for and value of 8 community involvement in the decommissioning of 9 nuclear power plants. Nuclear power plant 10 decommissioning is a complex process, and the NRC 11 believes the impact of the decommissioning and 12 termination of a nuclear power plant license needs to 13 be communicated to the local community.
14 We have also observed that the community 15 interest in nuclear reactor decommissioning 16 activities can vary depending on the location and 17 historical relationship between the licensee, the 18 state, local governments, labor unions, and members 19 of the public and other stakeholders. As an 20 independent safety regulator, the NRC assures that 21 all members of the public are given fair and equal 22 opportunity to comment on the licensees 23 decommissioning plans through a license amendment 24 process, the NRC-sponsored public meetings, and other 25 forums.
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23 1 Therefore, the NRC does not officially 2 recognize or endorse any specific special interest 3 group, public or private organizations, community 4 groups, coalitions, or individuals. This approach 5 assures that one or more of the organizations do not 6 dominate a public forum, and allows for the members 7 of the public to provide alternative and differing 8 viewpoints and comments to the NRC. Lets see here.
9 Next slide.
10 This slide, I wanted to remind everybody 11 because weve been talking for quite a long time now 12 and I apologize for that, but we thought we should 13 set the stage for the meeting. But the real purpose 14 of the meeting is to identify the best practices for 15 the establishment and operation of local Community 16 Advisory Boards, or CABs, for decommissioning power 17 plants. This is basically directly out of the law.
18 The purpose of a CAB is to establish, to 19 foster communications and information exchange 20 between the licensee planning for and involved in the 21 decommissioning activities and the members of the 22 community that decommissioning activities may affect.
23 So, thats our real purpose tonight, and I want to 24 really stay on process with that. Thats our sole 25 principle in being here this evening. Again, we NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 1 recognize that you dont have a CAB but we know there 2 are issues that you have passion about and are 3 interested in. Next slide please.
4 Im not going to go through the next slide 5 verbatim, but it does provide a list of information 6 that we were going to need for producing this report.
7 So, you know, this lists the typical topics that were 8 interested in, the topics that you can bring to a 9 board, how they are used to inform the decision-making 10 process, what are the interactions and the 11 compositions with the commission and the federal 12 agencies to support the board commissions, excuse me, 13 overall understanding of those, and how much a board 14 could offer the opportunities for public engagement 15 in the process. Next slide please.
16 As we mentioned, we had an OMB clearance 17 for questions that we were required to get approval 18 for to ask the public questions. Many of these are 19 on the slides. We have copies of the questionnaire 20 out front. If you werent able to grab one on the 21 way in, well make them available after the meeting.
22 But here are the typical questions we 23 wanted answered or provide feedback from for those 24 people that, for those sites that have a citizens 25 advisory panel. Im not going to go into those on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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25 1 the slide. Lets go to the next slide.
2 But the second half of the NEIMA Section 3 108 questions are focused on CAB operations and what 4 are the opportunities for people to have. Also, if 5 you had a CAB, what would you like to have it all 6 about as far as what you think they should be involved 7 in? Then the last part of the questionnaire deals 8 with plants that dont have a CAB, such as Palisades.
9 The questions are oriented to has the 10 licensee or State considered the establishment of a 11 CAB, the reasons for not having a CAB, and how does 12 the licensee or state provide opportunities for 13 public engagement throughout the decommissioning 14 process, and in general, what are the advantages of 15 having a CAB, a local CAB, and what are the 16 disadvantages of not having a CAB. So, these are 17 part of the questionnaire that we would like for 18 people to provide us feedback on. Next slide please.
19 You have the opportunity to fill out that 20 questionnaire online. This is our website where you 21 can get that questionnaire and fill it out online and 22 return it. You can scan those completed 23 questionnaires and send those to this e-mail box, 24 neima108.resource@nrc.gov, or you can mail the 25 completed questionnaires to Kim, and shell be happy NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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26 1 to receive those. If you want more information on 2 our initiative on Section 108, we have a website set 3 up that you can go to. Heres the link for it that 4 you can provide more information on our activities 5 associated with Section 108. So, next slide.
6 This slide shows the United States. We 7 have gained experience with decommissioning of 8 nuclear power plants. We currently have 11 facilities 9 in active decommissioning. We are expecting that we 10 will terminate the licenses at Humboldt Bay, La 11 Crosse, and Zion 1 and 2 in the next year. As a 12 matter of fact, two of those, actually all three of 13 these sites, we will be at the sites conducting 14 confirmatory surveys with our regional inspectors to 15 ensure that the site has been completely cleaned up 16 and met our criteria for unrestricted release.
17 We have 11 plants in SAFSTOR. As weve 18 explained earlier, it means that theyve been placed 19 in a safe and stable condition and are maintained by 20 the owners pending dismantlement work in the future.
21 So, with those, well move on to the next slide.
22 We have nine plants that have announced 23 inspection, excuse me, that have announced also that 24 were going to shut down, which would include 25 Palisades. On this slide are just a number of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1 references for your information that can help you 2 with finding out more information. I would also 3 recommend you look at our YouTube videos on 4 decommissioning.
5 If you really want to get to these 6 references, its very simple. You go to www.nrc.gov 7 and look under Radioactive Waste, and under there 8 there will be a Decommissioning tab for all the 9 decommissioning activities. So, its basically a 10 three-step process.
11 With that, I also included a slide here.
12 You can also provide, if you had further questions or 13 comments on the Section 108 webinar that we held on 14 August 8th, you can provide those to David McIntyre 15 and the Office of Public Affairs. We have been 16 receiving questions and comments throughout the 17 webinar and we will provide some responses to some of 18 those in the future. Again, we have the webinar 19 providing the basic information.
20 With that, were going to go to tonights 21 meeting which is the ground rules. So, I want to 22 remind everybody that the meeting is being 23 transcribed. Our gentleman Stuart is up here, he is 24 going to be transcribing the meeting. Once we get 25 the official transcript from him, we will make it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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28 1 available on our public website.
2 With that, I would like to, anybody from 3 the NRC staff who is here would like to introduce 4 themselves starting over here.
5 MR. GIESNNER: My name is Jack Giesnner, 6 Im the deputy administrator in the Midwest Region, 7 Region III. Thanks for coming.
8 MR. LaFLAMME: Im Paul LaFlamme, senior 9 resident at Palisades Nuclear Power Plant.
10 MS. WINSLOW: My name is Julie Winslow.
11 Im currently the resident onsite here at Palisades.
12 MS. MEYERS: Valerie Meyers, Im out of 13 our regional office.
14 MS. MITLYNG: Im Viktoria Mitlyng, Im 15 the public affairs officer at the Region III. Welcome 16 to this meeting.
17 MR. WATSON: With that, are there any 18 elected officials here who would like to make a 19 statement? Yes? When you go up to the mic, could 20 you provide your name for us so Stuart gets it clear?
21 MR. RUSHLOW: My name is Jake Rushlow, 22 and Im here on behalf of Michigan State 23 Representative Pauline Wenzel. Representative Wenzel 24 is the Vice-Chair of the Michigan Energy Policy 25 Committee and welcomes the NRC to Lake Michigan NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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29 1 College and the Michigan=s 79th District.
2 Getting into the topic of our meeting, as 3 home to two operating nuclear power plants, Southwest 4 Michigan is familiar with the benefits that these 5 plants provide to our region in terms of economic 6 activity and safe, clean, and reliable electricity.
7 Both Palisades and the DC Cook plants have made 8 transparency and public engagement a priority, 9 communicating regularly with the state and local 10 officials, as well as maintaining an active presence 11 in their communities.
12 Since announcing the 2022 closure of 13 Palisades, Entergy has maintained active 14 communication, public information sharing, and 15 transparency. With the future formation of a locally 16 created Community Advisory Panel, we expect that high 17 standard and positive community partnership to 18 continue.
19 We are blessed to live in a nation united 20 in the richness of our diversity and regional 21 differences. Rather than proposing a nationwide 22 model or procedure for the creation of these panels, 23 they should reflect the values of the communities 24 they serve. In the case of Palisades, a future 25 advisory panel should be driven by municipal and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 1 county leaders, law enforcement, area school 2 districts, county health officials, and appropriate 3 state agency representatives.
4 Thank you very much for being here.
5 MR. WATSON: Youre welcome. Thank you 6 for your statement. Are there any other elected 7 officials who would like to make a statement?
8 Are there any representatives of Native 9 American tribes that would like to make a public 10 statement?
11 Hearing none, Nick Culp from Entergys 12 government affairs has asked that they provide a brief 13 statement at the beginning.
14 MR. CULP: Sure. Well, we know that 15 theres other topics folks would like to talk about 16 perhaps outside of the scope of todays meeting. So, 17 Otto Gustafson, raise your hand, and myself will be 18 available after the meeting.
19 We appreciate this opportunity to hear 20 from Southwest Michigan residents about how CABs 21 should be created. I think we all agree that theres 22 not a one size fits all model for this. So, thank 23 you again for being here today.
24 MR. WATSON: Thank you. Okay, the ground 25 rules for tonight, number one, we dont have many NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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31 1 speakers, at least signed up. So, with that, I would 2 like everyone have the opportunity to speak five or 3 six minutes, and that generally is plenty of time to 4 make your comments if you will. Please state your 5 name as I said. If you have a fairly long name, we 6 may ask you to spell it so that Stuart gets the 7 correct spelling. So, please speak up. Even though 8 we have microphones, please speak into the microphone 9 so he can clearly hear you.
10 Again, I would like to stay on process.
11 We are here to talk about citizens advisory panels.
12 We did not bring a tremendous technical staff here 13 with us to discuss all issues that we generally would 14 speak to at decommissioning meetings. So, were here 15 for the sole purpose of hearing your comments on 16 citizens advisory boards.
17 So, with that, is there a Ms. Barbara 18 Potter here? Youre trapped.
19 MS. POTTER: Hi, Bruce. Thanks for having 20 the meeting.
21 MR. WATSON: Can you speak into the 22 microphone please?
23 MS. POTTER: I will. My name is Iris 24 Potter, Im from Kalamazoo. I am a member of the 25 Palisades Shutdown Campaign Coalition and Michigan NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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32 1 Safe Energy Future Kalamazoo Chapter. Thank you.
2 I want to say that I support an 3 independently-established local regional CAB, 4 comprised of a majority of citizens of course, which 5 must be the true intent of decommissioning CABs. I 6 would also support a state-established and funded 7 CAB, also with a majority of citizens. Now, I say 8 the above because citizens on the 50-mile radius zone, 9 which I am part of, and beyond are very concerned 10 about safety. Were concerned about the current 11 safety at Palisades, and so we definitely have 12 concerns about the decommissioning process.
13 Were also concerned for another reason, 14 because the NRC will likely be approving another 15 transfer of this utility. Entergy will probably be 16 transferred to HDI, Holtec, with a very limited time 17 for decommissioning, way less than 60 years, even 18 less than 10. So, we have concerns about that 19 company. We have concerns about the safety, our 20 health already, of this plant, the lake, our lake, 21 our Great Lakes. So, with that, we realize that the 22 true intent does need to be for citizens. So, a CAB 23 will always have to be a majority of citizens.
24 Now, I noticed on the slide that you had, 25 you listed local officials, et cetera. But again, it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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33 1 really did not go into citizen participation. So, 2 that is going to be key, and I know if that doesnt 3 happen, that youll definitely hear about that.
4 So, I just want to say that the concerns 5 are now, the concerns are the future, and the concerns 6 are for the future generation. What about the 7 restoration? Whats that really going to look like?
8 So, we have health, safety, major concerns in our 9 area.
10 Currently, the casks are sitting on the 11 beach. The lake is rising. So, you can see, were 12 in a very unique position here being near water. So, 13 I thank you for your time and I appreciate it.
14 MR. WATSON: Thank you. Okay, the next 15 person listed is Ms. Rebecca Mandrell. No? Going to 16 pass, okay. The other one, the next person is Ms.
17 Carolyn Ferry. Carolyn is a very nice name, its my 18 daughters name, one of my daughters.
19 MS. FERRY: I dont know if this is on.
20 MR. WATSON: Its on.
21 MS. FERRY: Is this on?
22 MR. WATSON: Its on.
23 MS. FERRY: Okay, it just doesnt work 24 very well. We cant hear back there. My name is 25 Carolyn Ferry, oh, this is better.
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34 1 MR. WATSON: Well, feedback though.
2 MS. FERRY: Yes. I represent Palisades 3 Park, the homeowners community immediately south of 4 the power plant property. Weve been around since 5 1905, and there are currently approximately 218 homes 6 in our community.
7 The reason for this meeting is for us to 8 share with you what kind of input a Community Advisory 9 Board should have in the decommissioning process. We 10 believe a CAB should not be controlled or funded by 11 the nuclear industry but by a public source such as 12 state or local government.
13 The topics a CAB should provide input on 14 include every important step that is taken in the 15 decommissioning process, including should any 16 proposed license transfer be approved. Each activity 17 in the decommissioning process should be disclosed to 18 the CAB, and it should have important input on any 19 such activity that has an impact on local life 20 including the potential release of radiation into the 21 air or the water or anything creating noise or traffic 22 or other local concerns. Also, how should the spent 23 nuclear materials be safely stored, that should be an 24 area for input from the Community Advisory Board.
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35 1 include people who represent the nuclear industry.
2 The licensee is already here to do that. In order to 3 be effective, the Community Advisory Board should 4 hold all of the licensees activities up to the light 5 for public input. There should be no secrets.
6 The nuclear materials left next door to 7 us on the shifting sand dunes will be there for a 8 long time, perhaps forever. We hope for our 9 descendants to be able to live there safely a long 10 time after all of us are gone. Thanks.
11 MR. WATSON: Thank you. Lets see. The 12 next person, I hope I get the name correct, Ms. Jan 13 Boudart. Okay, take your time now that youre way up 14 there.
15 MS. BOUDART: Im Jan Boudart of the 16 Nuclear Energy Information Service. I want to thank 17 the NRC for calling these meetings and the subsequent 18 meetings, and for giving us the opportunity to speak.
19 My understanding of the purpose of these 20 meetings is to establish a panel of individuals who 21 will follow the various activities and expenses 22 involved in dismantling merchant nuclear power 23 plants, making sure of the safety of workers and 24 members of the community, and that the economics of 25 the various operations are available and properly NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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36 1 used.
2 My first comment is regarding the name 3 the NRC has chosen for these panels. Nuclear 4 decommissioning citizens advisory panels have existed 5 for several years now. They already had a name that 6 they gave themselves, NDCAP, sometimes including the 7 name of the particular reactors being dismantled; for 8 example, Palisades nuclear decommissioning citizens 9 activist panel. But the name I heard today is the 10 Palisades Shutdown Coalition, an entity that already 11 existed before the NRC called this meeting and foisted 12 upon everyone the name that they wanted. That name 13 NDCAP explained for interested people that this is a 14 nuclear activity and involves the dismantling of a 15 nuclear facility, while at the same time revealing 16 that the panel was advisory or activist.
17 The name citizens advisory board is not 18 descriptive. It hides the nuclear intent of the 19 activity and does not convey that an expensive and 20 valuable resource is being removed from the 21 community. NRC, by changing the name of an entity 22 that already exists, is attempting to take control of 23 this activity and change its nature to fit better 24 into their secretive character. Just as in the Old 25 Testament when God let man name the animals, it was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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37 1 a way of giving man dominion over them. This is an 2 accepted interpretation of that from many revision 3 classes that Ive taken.
4 The NRC, by turning its back on the name 5 already in use, is attempting to take control of the 6 panel and shape its mission. I personally reject the 7 change in name and earnestly request, and in fact I 8 have a definite ask, that the NRC revert to the name 9 we have already given ourselves as a more descriptive 10 and more in line with the hard work and passionate 11 caring that the citizens involved have shown.
12 Along with the name change, the NRC has 13 adopted a common term for the people who will be on 14 the panel, stakeholders. Stakeholders is loaded with 15 the implication that those who have risked the most 16 money have the largest stake and should be more equal 17 than the less well-to-do members of the group.
18 Problem is every person, rich or poor, young or old, 19 male, female and everything in between, is a 20 stakeholder. But I am not speaking of a money stake.
21 I speak of the influence nuclear fission asserts on 22 the bodily health of the individuals in its horizon.
23 Looking at it this way, women have a 24 bigger stake than men. Children have a bigger stake 25 than adults. Those in utero and yet to be born have NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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38 1 the biggest stake of all. It is young parents and 2 old grandparents who must speak up for them. Thus, 3 there should always be at least one couple with small 4 children included in any NDCAP now and in the future.
5 In addition, more women than men should be chosen for 6 the panel because the effect of radiation upon them 7 is greater.
8 Again, I thank you for listening to my 9 views on this subject. Here is my ask. Dont change 10 the name of what already exists. Continue with the 11 descriptive name that is already chosen. We are a 12 nuclear decommissioning and dismantling citizens 13 action panel. Allow those with the biggest stake in 14 the outcome of the nuclear fission project to have 15 leadership positions on the panel. Thank you.
16 MR. WATSON: Thank you very much. The 17 next person on our list is Mr. Jeff Mills. Jeff is 18 over here, okay.
19 MR. MILLS: Good evening. Welcome to Van 20 Buren County. My name is Jeff Mills, superintendent 21 of Van Buren Intermediate School District.
22 Im going to kind of go in a little bit 23 different direction. But, you know, we provide, the 24 ISD provides special education, career and technical 25 education, and we offer services toward twelve local NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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39 1 school districts, mainly in Van Buren County. School 2 districts range in size from Meadow One Consolidated 3 with approximately 3,800 K-12 students to Woods 4 School District that has 25 K-8 students. South Haven 5 and Covert Public Schools are also part of the Van 6 Buren ISD service area.
7 The tax revenue generated from Entergy 8 Palisades provides revenue to assist with the 9 services to all twelve of these school systems. In 10 addition, I wanted to say thank you to Entergy 11 Palisades for providing the main financial support 12 for the last 10 years for our Back to School Bonanza 13 which we hand out over 1,100 backpacks every year so 14 the children are ready to start, theyre ready to go 15 with the resources. Also, the month of August is 16 when this event takes place, and I will say we have 17 so many volunteers from the Entergy Palisades company 18 that help pack these backpacks and then come to the 19 actual event that just happened about a week and a 20 half ago, and they hand out these backpacks to the 21 families and the children.
22 So, I wanted to say thank you to Entergy 23 Palisades for providing that financial support, 24 providing the volunteer employees to be here, and 25 just to keep this event going for the last ten years.
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40 1 I hope it continues until 2022 and maybe further on.
2 But I also want to thank Mr. Darrell 3 Corbin and the other employees that have helped from 4 Palisades. They just had the newspaper article in 5 the Courier Leader that had many pictures of the 6 families receiving these backpacks, and youll see 7 the smiles on their faces if you get that newspaper.
8 The last thing I wanted to say is that 9 with the transition that youre going to be 10 undertaking with the decommissioning of the Entergy 11 Palisades plan, I would be very supportive of the 12 formation of a Community Advisory Board made up of 13 community leaders, participants that live and work 14 each day in these communities. If you need names of 15 agencies and leaders that I have worked with over the 16 last 20 years in Van Buren County, Id be more than 17 happy to provide you a list. As a school leader, the 18 safety of students, staff and community members is a 19 top priority for me.
20 Thank you for allowing me to be here this 21 evening.
22 MR. WATSON: Thank you for your comments.
23 Youre welcome. Our next speaker is Mr. John Faul, 24 and thats spelled F-a-u-l, right?
25 MR. FAUL: Correct. Thank you. Can you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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41 1 hear me okay? My name is John Faul, Im the Van Buren 2 County administrator, and Im representing the Van 3 Buren County. The board of commissioners, they 4 werent able to make it tonight but they asked me to 5 express a few comments to you.
6 First of all, thank you for coming today 7 this morning and talking to us as governmental 8 entities, and tonight for the ability to make public 9 comments.
10 Two things Ive heard throughout the 11 evening comments and your presentation, and I dont 12 want to belabor the points, all of them very well 13 spoken and much more eloquent than I can make. But 14 what I heard mostly was community and safety. Those 15 were the two key components. As an aside, I do want 16 to say thank you to Entergy for being good community 17 partners, as Jeff alluded to, and communicating 18 safety issues to us throughout the whole course of 19 the operations of the plant.
20 But from a public appointed official 21 point of view, what is impacting us greatly is this 22 change. So, were changing the operation of the 23 plant, and were changing the operators of the plant.
24 In my career, what I see, change is inevitable, and 25 my job is to help curate and manage the change or the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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42 1 uncertainty that comes with change. I really think 2 that Community Action Advisory Boards is key to 3 managing that uncertainty. However, its comprised, 4 as the community develops it, it certainly needs local 5 officials, elected public safety, and as other 6 speakers have pointed out, citizens, however thats 7 defined.
8 So, were a community, and not just a 9 community of a place. While I speak for Van Buren 10 County as a political boundary, we are a community 11 much larger than that comprised of different 12 components throughout three different counties at 13 least. I havent looked at the map recently, but it 14 stretches into Barry and Allegan and Van Buren, all 15 the way east into Kalamazoo. It represents citizens 16 from all sorts of different branches and all sorts of 17 different public entities. So, I think that board 18 needs to represent that community, and the 19 representation needs to focus on safety, however that 20 is defined, the continued operational safety, the 21 transfer of that safety, and the storage of the spent 22 fuel safety.
23 So, again, I want to focus on the 24 community action, or the community board should focus 25 on community; however, thats defined locally. I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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43 1 want to stress that it should be local and we should 2 have a complete say in that. As much as I love my 3 partners in the state, you know, I want to make sure 4 local voice is heard and a major component of that.
5 So, with that being said, I want to again 6 thank you so much for your time and allowing me to 7 speak. Thank you.
8 MR. WATSON: Thank you. Sorry. Our next 9 speaker is Mr. Kevin Kamps. There he is.
10 MR. KAMPS: Hello, good evening. My name 11 is Kevin Kamps, and I serve as radioactive waste 12 specialist at Beyond Nuclear, which is based in Takoma 13 Park, Maryland. I also serve as a board of directors 14 member for Dont Waste Michigan, representing my 15 hometown Kalamazoo Chapter since 1992. I also serve 16 on the advisory board of Citizens for Alternatives to 17 Chemical Contamination based here in Michigan.
18 Thanks for the welcomes that were extended this 19 evening from others before. As a member of a family 20 who has resided in this area of Michigan since 1860, 21 I welcome you as well.
22 I would like to point out that the 23 decommissioning of Palisades has been anticipated for 24 a long time. But I have to wonder why were having 25 this meeting here tonight. Palisades had said it was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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44 1 going to shut down on October 1st of 2018, and it did 2 not. So, now Palisades is saying its going to shut 3 down October 1st of 2022. Well see, I guess.
4 Certainly in those next three plus years of 5 operations, there is tremendous and increasing risk 6 as many of us have warned about for a long time.
7 So, the good news, when the reactor 8 shutdown happens, is that once the fuel leaves the 9 core, you cant have a core meltdown by definition.
10 So, that will be a good thing. No more high level 11 radioactive waste will be generated for which we have 12 no solution, and thats also a good thing. But the 13 problem is the lingering radioactive contamination of 14 the site which has now built up for a half century, 15 as well as the mother lode of radioactivity hazard 16 which is the irradiated nuclear fuel. So, of course, 17 those would be the main focus areas of this Community 18 Advisory Panel that is being discussed this evening.
19 I associate myself with the remarks of my colleagues 20 made earlier, like Iris Potter who expressed concern 21 about this company, Holtec/SNC-Lavalin, which is 22 poised to take over the license at Palisades from 23 Entergy.
24 Just to let folks know, if they dont 25 know, in the room, the attorney general of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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45 1 Massachusetts has intervened against just such a move 2 by Holtec/SNC-Lavalin in the State of Massachusetts, 3 as has a local watchdog group, Pilgrim Watch. Ive 4 compiled a couple of lists of skeletons in the closet 5 for these companies, Holtec and SNC-Lavalin. Just 6 long story short, the corruption of SNC-Lavalin in 7 Canada is daily headline news and may take down the 8 Prime Minister in October.
9 Regarding Holtec, the list is very long.
10 A number of groups are also challenging Holtecs 11 application for centralized interim storage in New 12 Mexico. So, in that regard, the waste may be here 13 for a long time to come, almost certainly will because 14 Palisades still operating is at the back of that 15 export line.
16 I would like to touch on something. I 17 listened to most of the August 8th recording from 18 your webinar, and Im not sure which NRC staffer said 19 it. But in response to a question from the public 20 about the ongoing risks of high level radioactive 21 waste at shutdown sites, the NRC staffer on the line 22 said that pool to dry cask expedited transfer will 23 take place relatively quickly within a matter of 24 years, its not to be worried about.
25 The problem is that that is not a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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46 1 requirement by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
2 That may be the standard practice of the industry for 3 the most part, but its not required. Its voluntary.
4 The NRC allows for companies to leave irradiated fuel 5 in the pools for decades into the future if they so 6 choose, which is a problem if you lose cooling in the 7 pool, which came pretty darn close to happening in 8 October of 2005 at Palisades when that 107-ton weight 9 dangled over the pool for a couple of days. Workers 10 tried to release the emergency brake and almost 11 succeeded, which would have plunged that weight 12 through the floor of the pool and who the hell knows 13 what would have happened, if that had happened. So, 14 the risks of the pool are significant. The risks of 15 the dry casks are significant.
16 We took a tour, a number of us, some of 17 us who are here on the room, it was June 11th of 2014, 18 at the invitation of Entergy. We took a site tour.
19 As I mentioned, Ive been following these issues for 20 a while. I was pretty shocked to see the cracking on 21 the exterior of the ventilated storage casks near the 22 lake shore made very visible by the attempted repair 23 apparently with epoxy which stained, streaked the 24 side of the container making the crack so visible.
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47 1 cosmetic. Well, that is the radiation shielding 2 around that high level radioactive waste. It was 3 supposed to last 100 years, and were not even a 4 quarter century into that time period yet. So, we 5 have a long way to go.
6 I found it a little humorous that our 7 comments are limited to six minutes. I took one 8 radioisotope, Iodine 129, hazardous persistence of 9 157 million years. So, you do the math. So, thats 10 one minute of public comment for 26 million years of 11 hazard.
12 So, we will be taking part at every turn 13 as we have, myself for 27 years, people who are at it 14 long before I was even born. There were groups in 15 Kalamazoo who petitioned against the construction of 16 Palisades before it was built in the mid 1960's.
17 There were opponents to this plant out here before it 18 was built, some of whom have stayed involved the whole 19 time. We will continue to stay involved.
20 On this Community Advisory Panel, I would 21 associate myself with the remarks made that this has 22 to be vast majority concerned people who live here, 23 people who have lived here their entire lives, and 24 generations in the past.
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48 1 question, are there any members of local tribal 2 nations here. I think the burden is on the NRC. You 3 have a government to government responsibility to 4 interact with the tribes of this area in a meaningful 5 way, and simply sending an e-mail or sending a letter 6 through the mail is not sufficient. So, there are 7 various tribes, the Pokagon Potawatomi headquartered 8 in Dowagiac, the Grand River Band of Ottawa Indians 9 up closer to Grand Rapids, who need to be very much 10 so a part of this process.
11 The Big Rock Point, sister plant of 12 Palisades, tremendous lessons to be learned. I have 13 a copy of a report that I wrote in 2006, Say Yes to 14 Michigan, Say No to the Plutonium State Park, 15 Backgrounder on Big Rock Point Nuclear Power Plant 16 Decommissioning. Tremendous lessons to be learned 17 from a tiny reactor, you mentioned 75 megawatts.
18 Palisades is more than order of magnitude bigger.
19 Big Rock Point released, by its own account, over 20 three million curies of hazardous ionizing 21 radioactivity into the environment. So, they spent 22 $366 million up there on decommissioning. This plant 23 is more than order of magnitude bigger, and yet the 24 decommissioning trust fund here is around half a 25 billion dollars because it has been rated to the tune NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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49 1 of over $300 million just over a decade ago.
2 So, with tritium leaks into the ground 3 and groundwater, with the Palisades Park community 4 immediately next door drawing drinking water from the 5 groundwater, with local communities along the 6 shoreline drawing their drinking water from Lake 7 Michigan which is immediately downstream of 8 Palisades, again Big Rock Point, lessons learned, the 9 discharge canal at Big Rock Point used for 35 years 10 of radiological and toxic chemical discharges, Big 11 Rock Point was not even analyzed for how much 12 contamination is in the discharge canal even though 13 during decommissioning radioactive algae washed up 14 the discharge canal and set off radiation alarms in 15 the heart of the plant. So, there are tremendous 16 lessons to be learned right here in Michigan, many 17 negative ones. If folks would like a copy of this 18 report, I have a bunch of copies, and this is the tip 19 of the iceberg as I say.
20 MR. WATSON: Okay, thank you for your 21 comments.
22 MR. KAMPS: Thank you.
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50 1 down. Again, we want to stay on process with the 2 citizens advisory panel as our goal for comments on.
3 MS. PIERMAN: Good evening. My name is 4 Bette Pierman and I live in Benton Harbor, halfway 5 between the two nuclear power plants on the shore, 6 Palisades and DC Cook.
7 I want to thank you for holding this 8 meeting tonight, but I find it extremely troubling, 9 the attendance here. I dont know how you publicized 10 this locally. I cannot believe that we do not have 11 representatives from local cities and their 12 commissions and township commissions. They should 13 have been here tonight giving you input on this very 14 important subject.
15 So, I think you need to take a lesson for 16 how you invited people to this because this is 17 extremely troubling. We have one representative 18 here, or a person representing a state 19 representative. Thats all weve had here. We have 20 had no mayors. We have had no township leaders. We 21 have had no city commission members. Shame on you.
22 So, the citizens advisory board is very, 23 very important, and the decommissioning of these 24 plants is very, very concerning for all of us who 25 live in the area. So, who should be in a citizens NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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51 1 advisory board? Hmm, well, people that arent here 2 tonight probably should be represented on a citizens 3 advisory board. Members of the agricultural 4 community who have a vested interest in safe 5 decommissioning of this power plant and the impact 6 that its going to have on our agriculture in the 7 area is critical to serving on this advisory board.
8 As Mr. Kamps said, we need 9 representatives from the local tribes on your 10 citizens advisory board. We need representatives 11 from the school district on a citizens advisory 12 board. We need representatives from the local 13 hospitals who also have a vested interest to make 14 sure that this plant is safely decommissioned.
15 What I see as a rule, I studied what some 16 of the other citizens advisory boards in other states 17 have done, theres been some excellent writeups on 18 what they created and what their roles were and how 19 they operated in their state. I can see that being 20 a critical role locally here, you know, we need people 21 who are not industry people. We need people who are 22 not plant people. Yes, their expertise is critical, 23 but we also need people that oversee, who have a 24 vested interest in their community who oversee what 25 they are doing to make sure that we continue to be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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52 1 safe during the decommissioning of a plant.
2 So, yes, I very much think that we need 3 a citizens advisory board in this community, 4 especially when weve got plants, not just Palisades 5 but other plants that are going to be facing 6 decommissioning in the near future. We need a board 7 in this state. We need it to be not only serving as 8 an oversight board but also as an educational board.
9 They need to hold regular meetings, telling the 10 community whats going on as far as the 11 decommissioning progress is going on. We need it 12 from people that we can trust, people that have a 13 vested interest with our community, and not just from 14 the NRC and Entergy and those that want to continue 15 to tell us that everything is safe when we know its 16 not.
17 So, thank you very much. I will be 18 submitting comments and filling out your survey, too.
19 But you know, arent you disappointed at the 20 attendance at this meeting tonight? It just, it 21 breaks my heart.
22 MR. WATSON: Thank you for your comments.
23 I just want to point out one thing. The NRC is not 24 a member of the citizens advisory panel. We are an 25 independent safety regulator, so we do not take part NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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53 1 in that but do come to provide information that is 2 requested of us at those meetings.
3 We have another speaker. Can you give us 4 your name please?
5 MR. KRAFT: Thank you. My name is Dave 6 Kraft, Im director of Nuclear Energy Information 7 Service based in Chicago. Were a 38-year-old nuclear 8 watchdog organization in Illinois which also 9 advocates safe energy.
10 Actually, I wasnt planning on speaking 11 tonight. I wanted to observe the process, see what 12 you had in mind and see how the dialogue went on this.
13 But after hearing some of what Ive heard tonight and 14 heard your presentation, there are a few points I do 15 want to make. I will certainly be going in more 16 detail on September 26th when you guys come over to 17 the Zion meeting that we have over there.
18 But I do want to start with that because 19 our organization was in from the get go when Zion 20 began its decommissioning over about 10 years ago, 21 actually more than 10 years. You know, we saw the 22 formation of what they called ZCAP, the Zion Citizens 23 Action Panel, which was cited in your slide show. It 24 was an industry-created panel. I would point out 25 that we actually applied for membership but were NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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54 1 turned down, as were a number of other citizens from 2 the local Zion area who had expertise in economics 3 and other things.
4 I dont feel real badly about that, but 5 I do want to say that it was indicative of what youre 6 going to get if you rely on citizens advisory groups 7 that are run or financed or initiated by the vendors 8 themselves. So, I would support many of the comments 9 youve heard tonight that the citizens advisory 10 panels must be independent. Now, they could be funded 11 by the industry, but they need to be independent of 12 any kind of operation from the participants.
13 So, that was our history. Its kind of 14 interesting. Our 10-year experience at Zion was that 15 it was just a dog-and-pony show. It really didnt 16 achieve much other than PR for the industry itself, 17 which brings me to the second observation I have of 18 the whole process, and that is this is an advisory 19 entity.
20 Id like to go over a little bit of the 21 history of advice with the Nuclear Regulatory 22 Commission. A number of years ago, my organization 23 in Chicago and some of the people in this room 24 representing groups here had meetings with NRC 25 Chairwoman Allison Macfarlane. We gave lots of advice NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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55 1 on some of the financial problems and oversights and 2 absences in NRC regulations. The issue of an 3 independent citizens advisory panel was brought up I 4 know in the Chicago meeting, I dont know if it 5 occurred in Michigan, and nothing happened.
6 Many of the people in this room were 7 probably at the meeting when NRC Chairperson Greg 8 Jaczko was humiliated, both by NRC staff and power 9 plant operators telling everyone how safe the 10 Palisades plant was when in fact there was a 50-gallon 11 leak going on in the control room that night. Some 12 of you may remember that. Again, we had meetings 13 where we brought up the issue of oversight, citizens 14 groups, and nothing happened.
15 A number of people in this room I know 16 were at a two-hour meeting with NRC Commissioner 17 William Magwood and at the time I believe Chuck Casto 18 was the director of Region III if Im not mistaken, 19 about problems at Palisades. Not only were verbal 20 comments and dialogue entertained that night, a lot 21 of written materials were passed on to Commissioner 22 Magwood, and nothing happened.
23 In 2002, over a hundred organizations met 24 in Connecticut to come up with what we considered a 25 reasonable solution, an alternative to dealing with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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56 1 high level radioactive waste. It was called hardened 2 onsite storage. Since then, the number of endorsing 3 organizations has now peaked over 200. Yet nothing 4 has happened in terms of hardened onsite storage.
5 So, I would like to start this process 6 out from the beginning by advising you folks that the 7 history of advice to the NRC is not very good. Advice 8 is something that you dont have to accept and 9 obviously you dont have to do anything about. That 10 seems to be the history that many of the people in 11 this room have experienced so far, which brings me to 12 the last point Im going to yield.
13 Another meeting that took place not too 14 long ago, it seems not too long ago or maybe it was, 15 on the safety problems at Palisades was a chaired or 16 at least co-chaired by Chuck Casto again of NRCs 17 Region III. He and other NRC representatives were 18 making a real point of sticking it to the owners and 19 operators at Palisades about the issue of safety 20 culture. You dont have a safety culture. Chuck 21 Casto went on to lecture us what a safety culture was 22 all about. It was going beyond what was simply 23 required by the regulations, and you guys at Palisades 24 didnt have it.
25 Well, our experience in 38 years of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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57 1 dealing with the NRC is apparently neither do you, 2 because all we see are checkbox exercises. We see 3 entities that are created, that are not acted upon, 4 or at least given token acknowledgment and then 5 ignored. So, I guess what Im pointing out here is 6 you have a history to overcome if you really want to 7 make this process genuine, and it needs to start now.
8 Youll probably get more detail at the other meetings 9 youre going to have around the country on this, but 10 I just wanted to lay those points out now, especially 11 after so many of the people in this room have been 12 dealing with NRC decades and are still waiting for 13 their advice to be heard. Thank you.
14 MR. WATSON: Thank you. Do we have any 15 other speakers? Sir?
16 MR. MONTGOMERY: Yes, thank you, Bruce.
17 This is, my name is Bruce Montgomery of the Nuclear 18 Energy Institute. On behalf of our membership, Id 19 like to commend the thoughtful and deliberate 20 approach youre taking to complying with the 21 requirements of Section 108 of the Nuclear Energy 22 Innovation and Modernization Act.
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58 1 plant sites, and you have a lot of experience in 2 overseeing the whole process. Now, youve been given 3 the term Community Advisory Board to use as directed 4 by the Act. I understand and I would agree that other 5 types of community engagement works and works well.
6 This has also been proven across the country in 7 different decommissioning activities that are 8 executed well.
9 So, I would hope that, as youve pointed 10 out and others have, too, that one shoe doesnt fit 11 all feet, that what you might want to do in responding 12 to Congress in July of 2020 when you write your 13 report, as you reflect not just on the questions 14 youve asked in your questionnaire which come 15 straight from the Act, but you also give a fulsome 16 discussion of the other types of community engagement 17 approaches that have worked well at places like Fort 18 Calhoun, Crystal River and elsewhere, so that the 19 folks who read it back in Washington, DC get a full 20 report of the things that really do work. I think 21 what youve heard a lot of tonight is the community 22 needs to have significant input, the majority of the 23 input on how those boards are formed up and what their 24 charters are and who plays on those committees. Thank 25 you.
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59 1 MR. WATSON: Thank you. Someone had a 2 hand up up here? Yes, maam, come on down.
3 MS. POTTER: So, I do have a question.
4 Barbara Potter, Iris Potter, Kalamazoo.
5 MR. WATSON: Okay, thank you.
6 MS. POTTER: Thank you. I have a 7 question. What do you see up there, the three of you 8 see, if any, your role in a CAB? I know you say you 9 dont have any, but what would you see as your role 10 in a CAB? Or what have you already done in CABs?
11 MR. WATSON: Okay, I can only explain 12 what weve done in the past.
13 MS. POTTER: Yes, right.
14 MR. WATSON: Okay, we are not members of 15 CABs.
16 MS. POTTER: Right.
17 MR. WATSON: Were an independent safety 18 regulator. We are not a member, as I said, of the 19 CAB. We have been invited to speak at a number of 20 CABs. The most recent one was at the Pilgrim nuclear 21 decommissioning advisory panel for the Pilgrim plant 22 in Plymouth, Massachusetts. We went and spoke on the 23 license transfer process and other decommissioning 24 issues, okay, but we had a specific invitation from 25 the Pilgrim NDCAP to do that.
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60 1 We have spoken at the Vermont Yankee 2 nuclear decommissioning advisory panel on a number of 3 topics, most importantly with the license transfer 4 that was granted there. We spoke to them in advance 5 of the license transfer process, and also some of the 6 other issues they had with, some of the financial 7 issues that the NRC does.
8 MS. POTTER: What kind of issues? Im 9 sorry, I didnt hear that.
10 MR. WATSON: Decommissioning funding 11 issues.
12 MS. POTTER: That is a pretty big issue, 13 yes.
14 MR. WATSON: Okay, so weve spoken to 15 them. Weve also spoken at the, I know Ive spoken 16 twice at the, were getting a little feedback here, 17 San Onofre, whats called the citizens engagement 18 panel. They all have different names, they all 19 generally have the same principal functions. Ive 20 spoken twice about, at their facility, at their 21 community meeting, one on environmental reviews that 22 the NRC does, and also on our inspection program for 23 decommissioning.
24 Im trying to think. Weve spoken at a 25 couple of others, but those are probably the main NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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61 1 ones. So, we do participate when were invited to be 2 guests to speak at those, when there is a specific 3 request. I know other parts of the organization have 4 been there to speak about the safety of the spent 5 fuel. Our spent fuel folks had been there to do that.
6 Ive had some of the regional inspectors and managers 7 come and speak about the inspection process also.
8 So, weve done our part to provide 9 information. I think when asked, weve generally 10 been able to respond. But we do not direct the 11 activities of the board, we just acknowledge that 12 they exist and are available to hear all sides of 13 issues.
14 MS. POTTER: Right, okay. Well, thank 15 you. I was just curious what, I knew it was an 16 advisory or educational or, you know, explaining your 17 role, I figured that. Thank you.
18 I did want to add in, and Ms. Boudart 19 broached this subject, that we do have the expertise 20 based on the experience of long-time, lets say 21 Palisades watchdog or Palisades groups who are 22 watching and have been following what has happened at 23 Palisades. We have all the information about some of 24 the things that have happened there, safety issues.
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62 1 and it be requested that long-time groups such as 2 Michigan Safe Energy Future, Don=t Waste Michigan, 3 Palisades Shutdown Campaign Coalition, any of them, 4 that they be a part of these CABs, because as 5 citizens, we are citizens, were volunteers, were 6 not paid, weve been following this and working on 7 this and looking out for the safety of folks for a 8 very long time. Thank you.
9 MR. WATSON: Okay, thank you. Youre 10 coming down? Okay, please.
11 MR. BROWN: My name is Bruce Brown. I 12 hadnt planned on saying anything this evening. But 13 as I was looking over the little feedback chart or 14 feedback form to fill out in the questionnaire and 15 going through the meeting, things occurred to me.
16 Number one, when I saw the part where 17 some of these citizens panels are sponsored by the 18 licensee, flags went up in my mind. There arent 19 many people in Southwest Michigan who would not be 20 suspicious of Entergy or Palisades or Holtec as the 21 licensee sponsoring the panel that oversees the 22 decommissioning that the licensee is doing.
23 Number two, from what I understand, the 24 purpose of meetings like these are for us to help you 25 understand how these citizen panels should be set up.
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63 1 One thing, and I applaud Bettes comment about how 2 many people are here, I was just looking around, it 3 looks like about 15 people here are NRC people, media 4 people, Palisades and Entergy people, and maybe 25 or 5 30 of the rest of the people are actually people 6 interested in how to go about setting up these panels.
7 Bettes point that there has to be more than a 8 transient, peremptory call notifying people that 9 theres a meeting. Theres about zero chance that 10 your average citizen is going to go to the NRC website 11 and discover that theres a meeting. There has to be 12 a much stronger, much stronger publicity about these 13 meetings.
14 Now, from what I understand, this is the 15 first one, right? Okay, please learn from this 16 audience, that you have failed to attract an audience.
17 I know there has to be hundreds and hundreds of people 18 in Southwest Michigan that are concerned about whats 19 going to happen when Palisades shuts down. If this 20 is all, and I know several of these people arent 21 even from Southwest Michigan. There are three people 22 here that I know of from Illinois, Kevin Kamps came 23 here from Washington, DC, and those are people who 24 intentionally seek out the kind of information that 25 you failed to give to the rest of Southwest Michigan.
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64 1 As you go along in this program, please do a better 2 job of getting people here to help you understand how 3 to set up these panels, okay?
4 Another suggestion on how to do that, 5 never in this entire evening have I seen a specific 6 definition of the word decommissioning. We have to 7 know what it is were talking about. Now, there was, 8 you know, some of these slides that we went through 9 talked about safety features will be in effect until 10 all of the waste leaves the site. Does that mean 11 decommissioning lasts until all the waste leaves the 12 site? How can that be? We dont even have a plan to 13 send the waste anywhere.
14 Its issues like that that just bothered 15 me as we went through this evening. You know, like 16 I said, I didnt know I was going to say anything.
17 But here I am and thats what I said. Thank you very 18 much.
19 MR. WATSON: No, thank you very much.
20 Somebody, oh, okay, sorry, Im looking around the 21 corner here.
22 MR. SMITH: Good evening, hello. Good 23 evening, my name is Scott Smith and I am actually the 24 mayor of the city of South Haven. So, Id like to 25 say its nice to be on this side of the microphone NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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65 1 and not where you are tonight.
2 South Haven, as you know, were neighbors 3 to the Palisades plant, and its home to many of its 4 workers, so weve had a very good relationship for 5 years. I want to thank you for coming. I know this 6 is the first of many meetings, and I applaud you for 7 starting the process. As youve heard, more 8 communication but, you know, that will clearly 9 improve. So, I just want to applaud you for being 10 here and starting to listen to the residents, the 11 local communities. We appreciate your presence 12 tonight.
13 Palisades is a major employer, energy 14 producer, and you know, importantly for us, theyre 15 a very visible and invested member of the South Haven 16 community, and theyve been that way for years. Their 17 engagement with the city and public has been extremely 18 important, and even more so over past years with the 19 announcement of the closure. Theyve been more 20 present in our community with that transitional 21 process.
22 Its important for us, as we talk about 23 the eventual creation of the Palisades advisory 24 panel, that we want to ensure that transparency and 25 public dialogue continues. As youve heard tonight, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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66 1 we clearly want to be involved. I hope we as a city 2 are involved, all the local communities are involved.
3 You know, based on my experience in local government 4 and the private sector, if you want a committee or a 5 board to be effective, it needs to be credible and 6 have buy in from everybody around. So, in that case, 7 that means local control. So, include us. Please 8 include us.
9 What works for communities on the East 10 Coast, the West Coast, may not necessarily work here 11 on the North Coast, right? So, hopefully youll pay 12 attention to what were, you know, what youre hearing 13 from the folks here and in this local area. Just, 14 again, as you take your recommendations back to 15 Congress, I just want to urge you to emphasize the 16 importance of deferring, you know, as much of that 17 decision making as possible to the local communities, 18 the citizens, you know, obviously the municipalities, 19 elected officials, that can I think again get back to 20 their local citizens.
21 Finally, I know there are some Entergy 22 folks here, but theyve been a great partner for many 23 years for the local communities and we appreciate 24 their presence and all that theyve done to now. So, 25 thank you again for listening to us tonight. I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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67 1 appreciate it.
2 MR. WATSON: Thank you. Yes, maam.
3 MS. HARRINGTON: Good evening. I just 4 want to thank you for coming out, starting to have a 5 conversation with us.
6 MR. WATSON: Can you give us your name 7 please?
8 MS. HARRINGTON: Oh, Im sorry. Ella 9 Harrington, and I live in Covert Township. So, Im 10 about five miles from the nuclear plant. I think 11 like everyone is saying, I just want to piggyback on 12 it that you need to get the involvement of, I dont 13 know, people in the community, the residents, and 14 like you were saying, the local municipalities.
15 I think you would get a better turnout if 16 its closer to, I dont know, the Covert area. I 17 dont know if you would have a meeting at the school 18 and then Entergy would be involved in different things 19 like that. But I am pretty sure people in the 20 community are concerned. I know being in the rural 21 area they may have trouble getting out to Benton 22 Harbor and different places, although I appreciate 23 the southwestern part of the state and people from 24 Illinois and everywhere coming out, I think they need 25 to be involved as well.
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68 1 So, I want to thank you and just remind 2 you that what everyone is saying is to get everybody 3 involved, more so than just the DC and the upper 4 people in management and different things like that.
5 I think its on a different level to actually hear 6 people that are staying there. The people are 7 concerned about where the disposal was going to be 8 and how long its going to take and how long is it 9 affecting them and is it making them have cancer. I 10 think people have a lot of different cancers. I think 11 as youre doing meetings, maybe schedule some closer.
12 MR. WATSON: Okay.
13 MS. HARRINGTON: Thanks.
14 MR. WATSON: Yes, thank you very much.
15 Yes, maam?
16 MS. FISH: Hi, my name is Melissa Fish.
17 Im a legislative aide for State Representative John 18 Hoadley from the Kalamazoo area. I had not intended 19 to say anything tonight, you know, Id just kind of 20 listen. But I just want to share that we are very 21 supportive of an advisory board that includes folks 22 from the state and local areas, from the local 23 municipalities, from schools, from, you know, local 24 governments, all different kinds of folks who are 25 going to be impacted by the decommissioning of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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69 1 Palisades. So, I just wanted to share that we are 2 very supportive of that and looking forward to be 3 engaged in more conversations about that. So, thank 4 you.
5 MR. WATSON: Thank you. You want to come 6 back down? Okay. Oh, Im sorry, didnt see you.
7 Well get to you next. Okay.
8 MS. BOUDART: Im Jan Boudart from 9 Nuclear Energy Information Service. Its kind of 10 discouraging to be a volunteer, and I feel that a 11 nuclear decommissioning citizens activist panel 12 should have funding. I think that if the state 13 legislature or the state executive decides to 14 establish such an entity, that there should be a way 15 of funding it.
16 Theres a tremendous amount of money 17 running around in the nuclear project, and the people 18 who are concerned and who want to be on these kinds 19 of entities should be rewarded. Maybe it would be 20 payment to them directly, to be sure that they are 21 paid for their transportation and for their time, or 22 that a donation be given to something they care a lot 23 about. But asking people to come to meetings where 24 everybody is paid but them is not really fair. There 25 should be funding for the individuals who end up on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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70 1 these panels. Thank you very much.
2 MR. WATSON: Thank you. Sir? Come on 3 down.
4 MR. ROSE: My name is Geoffrey Rose, Im 5 a resident of Covert, Michigan.
6 MR. WATSON: Is it John Rose?
7 MR. ROSE: Geoffrey.
8 MR. WATSON: Geoffrey, okay, yes.
9 MR. ROSE: Rose from Covert, Michigan.
10 Im just now getting involved in the activities with 11 the decommissioning and everything thats happening 12 with the Palisades Nuclear Plant. After listening to 13 all these people state their concerns, I realize you 14 guys got a tough job to do and its going to take, 15 you know, a lot of work to really accommodate most of 16 these requests. I dont know how many people can be 17 on a board, but it seems like theres a lot of people 18 that needs to be on the board.
19 But when I was reading your mission 20 statement, I cant recite it word for word but there 21 was a couple of words that kind of made me feel uneasy 22 when it said that you will, in your mission statement, 23 it says you will reasonably protect the environment 24 and the health and everything. I want to know if you 25 can define what you mean when you say reasonably NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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71 1 protect because there are different definitions of 2 the word.
3 MR. WATSON: I think we mentioned that 4 our mission is to provide safety for not only the 5 workers but for the public and protect the 6 environment. Thats what our mission is. The only 7 word weve used reasonable with that I can recall is 8 with the decommissioning funding and the regulations 9 define reasonable. Theres a reasonable assurance 10 that theres adequate decommissioning.
11 MR. ROSE: Right, okay, okay.
12 MR. WATSON: So, Im sorry if we threw in 13 a few words maybe or not, but I want to make it clear 14 we are the safety regulator and our mission is safety.
15 Theres really no compromise on that.
16 MR. ROSE: Okay, because that should be 17 the main concern with everyone in this room and 18 probably a lot of people who are not in this room.
19 So, thank you. I know you guys got a tough job to 20 do.
21 MR. WATSON: Okay, thank you, sir. Im 22 having trouble looking into the crowd because of the 23 lights, so thats why Ive kind of missed people from 24 time to time. Is there anybody else that would like 25 to talk? Provide some comments? Nobody?
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72 1 I think thats it. With that, I thought 2 we could close the meeting. I have a couple of 3 summary comments from this evening that Id like to 4 tell you what I heard, and I think my staff will also 5 agree with me that we did hear.
6 For Palisades, I heard a lot of comments 7 that there should be a citizens advisory panel or 8 CAB, citizens advisory board. It should be 9 independent, possibly state or locally sponsored, but 10 it needs to be locally based. The panel membership 11 should include local citizens, local elected 12 officials, including safety representatives, and 13 possibly even people extending to the agriculture and 14 tribal nations, and also include people who volunteer 15 to be on the CAB.
16 I want to remind everybody that the NRC 17 is not a member of the citizens advisory panel, but 18 we can be guests to provide information. We are an 19 independent safety regulator. On the other hand, I 20 also heard that the NRC could do a better job 21 advertising the meetings, and so we will look into 22 that.
23 So, thats the general issues I heard.
24 Were looking forward to seeing the transcript and 25 analyzing what was actually said and taking a second NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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73 1 look at those. Do you have anything to add, Kim?
2 Oh, yes, we have a little card here so 3 that people can look up our e-mail address, and also 4 theres other information on the decommissioning 5 program, the website, and also the website for this 6 particular NEIMA Section 108 which is the citizens 7 advisory, and also where the questionnaire is again.
8 So, we have these cards that can be, that are 9 available up front. We also have the questionnaire 10 out there. Also, we have meeting feedback forms that 11 you can fill out and just slip in the mail and theyll 12 come to our headquarters for comments on the actual 13 meeting.
14 Any closing remarks? Yes, we will be 15 accepting comments and the questionnaire through mid-16 November. So, were looking forward to, after youve 17 had this opportunity to be at this meeting and hear 18 what weve had to say about the history of the CABs 19 and the experience at sites, if you have any 20 additional thoughts, youre welcome to provide those 21 to us.
22 So, with that, I will call the meeting 23 adjourned. Thank you all for coming.
24 (Whereupon, at 7:47 p.m., the above-25 mentioned public hearing was concluded.)
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