ML072830682

Transcript of the Indian Point License Renewal Public Meeting Afternoon Session, Meeting, September 19, 2007, Pages 1-105

ML072830682
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Site:	Indian Point
Issue date:	09/19/2007
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NRC-1775
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Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Title: Indian Point License Renewal Public Meeting: Afternoon Session Docket Number: 50 -~ 23 28 G Location: Courtlandt Manor, New York Date: Wednesday, September 19, 2007 Work Order No.: NRC-1775 Pages 1-105 OR 6 NAL'I NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433 1 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION MEETING TO DISCUSS THE ENVIRONMENTAL SCOPING PROCESS FOR INDIAN POINT NUCLEAR GENERATING UNIT NOS. 2 AND 3, LICENSE RENEWAL APPLICATIONS Wednesday, September 19, 2007 The meeting came to order at 1:30 p.m. in The Colonial Terrace, 119 Oregon Road, Cortlandt Manor, New York, Lance Rakovan, Facilitator, presiding.

PRESENT: LANCE RAKOVAN, NRC RANI FRANOVICH, NRC BO PHAM, NRC NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 2 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 SPEAKER Chris Hogan Taylor Palmer James Knubel Elizabeth Sega Gary Shaw Philip Musegaa Lloyd Douglas Glenn Rickles Michael Otis Charlie Donald John Kelly Marilyn Elie Marie Quinten Susan Shapiro Hazel Dukes Michelle Lee Ron Carpino Sherwood Martir Dan Durett Ulrich Witte Tom Hallsel Susan Peale Bill Maulmeist CONTENTS PAGE 19 25 26 1 29 31 s 34 34 39 43 son 47 49 53 56 59 65 68 71 nelli 74 81 86 88 91 er 95 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 www.nealrgross.com 3 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 C 0 N T E N T S (cont.)SPEAKER PAGE Radmilla Miletich Laura Seitz Rani Framovich 96 99 102 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 VVWW'nealrgross.com 4 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 [1:32 p.m.]3 MR. RAKOVAN: Good afternoon, everyone.4 My name is Lance Rakovan. I am a communications 5 assistant with the EDO's office at the Nuclear 6 Regulatory Commission, and it's a privilege to act as 7 one of your facilitators for today's meeting. I also 8 have Mr. Rich Barkley who is from our Region One 9 office near Philadelphia, helping me out today. So I 10 appreciate the help, Rich.11 Welcome to NRC's public meeting to discuss 12 the environmental scoping process for the Indian Point 13 license renewal application.

14 The purpose of today's meeting is to 15 listen to you and to receive your comments as to what 16 environmental issues the NRC should consider during 17 their review of Indian Point's license renewal 18 application.

19 To start things off, I just of wanted to 20 go through what to expect from this afternoon's 21 meeting. I'll go through a couple ground rules and 22 then I'll go ahead and turn things over to our 23 presenter.

24 Just for those of you who aren't familiar 25 with the term scoping, it's a term that we're going to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 5 1 throw around a lot today probably.

It basically 2 harkens back to what I just said the purpose of the 3 meeting was.4 We're trying to figure out what to include 5 in the scope of the environmental review of the 6 license renewal process. So if you hear that term, 7 that's all we're talking about.8 Today's agenda. Basically, we've got a 9 fairly quick presentation on the license renewal and 10 environmental review processes, and then essentially 11 we're going to open the meeting up to listening to 12 your comments.13 We're going to try to just let you have 14 the mike. We ask that you keep it down to a few 15 minutes for your comments, if you would. We've got 16 quite a few people signed up to speak and we'd like to 17 try to get through everyone.18 We're going to try to avoid answering 19 questions in the public meeting format. We have a 20 number of NRC staff here, and since the purpose of the 21 meeting is to get your comments specifically, if you 22 have some questions we'd be more than happy to step 23 out in the backroom, answer your questions after the 24 meeting, step out during the meeting, even, if you'd 25 like to do that, and try to handle them there.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 6 1 But again, what we're going to try to do 2 is keep the main body of the meeting for, is 3 essentially to listen to you, not for us to talk.4 We do have somebody who is going to be 5 transcribing the meeting for us today, so that we can 6 take your comments and have them written down and be 7 able to go through them after the meeting.8 As such, we're going to ask that if you 9 speak, you come and use the center microphone when 10 it's your turn to comment. If you could identify 11 yourself and any group that you're with when you start 12 talking, that will help us get you on the transcript 13 and know exactly who you are.14 If you're speaking in the crowd, or if you 15 want to say something in the crowd real quick, flag me 16 down to get my attention and I'll try to bring the 17 mike to you, but again, we'd like to keep that as 18 infrequent as possible and allow the person who has 19 the mike to have the floor.20 And again, it's very important that we 21 have one person speaking at a time so we can get a 22 clear transcript of the meeting.23 1 want to stress that speaking here today 24 is not the only way that you can get your comments in 25 on this process. If you do not make it to the mike or NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 7 1 you don't say everything that you want to say while 2 you're up there, we will take written comments and 3 have them read directly into the transcript for the 4 meeting. And then also our main speaker will be going 5 over the other ways that you can get your comments in 6 on this process.7 We're going to do our best to get to 8 everyone today, so again, if you could, please be 9 respectful of the other speakers and try to keep your 10 comments concise, to the point, so we can make sure 11 that we try to get as many people up here as possible.12 If you did not sign up to speak, using one 13 of the yellow cards at the table outside when you 14 walked in, flag me down when someone else is speaking 15 and I'll bring one over to you. This gives us a 16 record of who spoke and more specifically it lets us 17 know how to spell your name, so we can make sure that 18 it's properly reflected in the transcript.

19 Other than that, if everyone could silence 20 your cell phones or your pagers, to make sure that 21 doesn't disrupt the meeting.22 Also on the back table, there was a stack 23 of public meeting feedback forms. If you could take 24 a minute just to fill those out, either hand it to an 25 NRC employee or drop it in the mail. It's free. That NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 8 1 really gives us an idea of how we can improve these 2 public meetings.

Or whether you Just liked it so 3 much, that we did it perfectly, that's okay to say 4 too. Having said that, I feel like I've talked to 5 long, so I'm going to go ahead and turn things over to 6 Mr. Bo Pham, who is going to give a brief 7 presentation, and then we're to go and turn the 8 meeting back to commenting.

9 MR. PHAM: Thank you, Lance. Next slide, 10 please.11 Good afternoon, everyone.

My name is Bo 12 Pham. I'm a senior project manager at the Nuclear 13 Regulatory Commission in the Division of License 14 Renewal, and I'm also the lead project manager for 15 conducting the review associated with the Indian Point 16 license renewal application.

17 Thank you all for taking the time to come 18 to this meeting. I hope the information we provide 19 will hep you to understand the process we're going 20 through, and the role you can play in helping us make 21 sure that our environmental review considers relevant 22 information.

23 In June, we had a meeting here at the 24 Colonial Terrace to provide an overview of the license 25 renewal process, which includes both a safety review NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 9 1 and an environmental review.2 Today, we will describe in more detail, 3 the environmental review process associated with the 4 license renewal review, but the most important part of 5 today's meeting is to receive any comments that you 6 may have on the scope of the environmental review.7 We will also give you some information 8 about how you can submit the comment, as Lance said, 9 outside of this meeting.10 At the conclusion of this presentation, we 11 will be taking comments on the scope of the 12 environmental review.13 As Lance has already indicated, this 14 meeting is being transcribed and all comments recorded 15 from the meeting will be reviewed and considered.

16 Before I get into the details of the 17 environmental review process, I'd like to take a few 18 minutes to recap some of the information that was 19 presented here in the June meeting.20 The NRC is a federal agency established by 21 the Energy Reorganization Act of 1974. It regulates 22 the civilian use of nuclear material.

The Atomic 23 Energy Act authorizes the NRC to grant a 40 year 24 license for nuclear power reactors.25 This 40 year term was based primarily on NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 10 1 economic consideration and antitrust factors, not on 2 safety or technical limitations.

The Atomic Energy 3 Act also allows for license renewal.4 The National Environmental Policy Act of 5 1969, otherwise known as NEPA, establishes a national 6 policy for considering the impact of federal decision 7 making on the human environment.

8 As a matter of policy, the Commission 9 determined that reactor license renewal constitutes a 10 major federal action, which an environmental impact 11 statement is warranted.

12 The NRC's regulations governing nuclear 13 safety, security, and environmental protection, are 14 contained in Title 10 of the Code of Federal 15 Regulations, commonly referred to as 10 CFR.16 In exercising its authority, the NRC's 17 mission is threefold.

To ensure adequate protection 18 of public health and safety, to promote the common 19 defense and security, and to protect the environment.

20 The NRC accomplishes its mission through 21 a combination of regulatory programs and processes 22 such as establishing rules and regulations, conducting 23 inspections, issuing enforcement actions, assessing 24 licensee performance and evaluating operating 25 experience of nuclear power plants, across the country NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 11 1 and internationally.

2 The NRC has resident inspectors at all 3 operating nuclear power plants. These inspectors are 4 considered the eyes and ears of the NRC. They carry 5 out our mission, our safety mission on a daily basis, 6 and are at the front lines of ensuring acceptable 7 safety performance, and compliance with regulatory 8 requirements.

Next slide, please.9 Now turning back to license renewal, the 10 Indian Point reactor units were licensed to operate in 11 1973 and 1975. For units 2 and 3, the current 12 operating licenses expire in 2013 and 2015, 13 respectively.

14 The NRC received Entergy' s application for 15 license renewal for both units on April 30th of this 16 year.17 As part of the NRC's review of the Indian 18 Point license renewal application, we will perform an 19 environmental review to assess the impacts on the 20 environment for an additional 20 years of operation.

21 And I'll explain that process more in a few minutes.22 I'll also share with you the schedule of the 23 environmental review. Next slide, please.24 License renewal involves two parallel 25 reviews, the safety review and the environmental NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 12 1 review. These two reviews evaluate two separate 2 aspects of the license renewal application.

The 3 safety review focuses on the aging of components and 4 structures, that the NRC deems important to plant 5 safety. The staff's main objective in this review is 6 to determine that the effects of aging will be 7 adequately managed by the applicant.

8 The results of the safety review are 9 documented in a safety evaluation report, otherwise 10 known as a SER. For the environmental review, the 11 staff considers, evaluates and discloses the 12 environmental impacts of continued plant operation for 13 an additional 20 years.14 The staff also evaluates the environmental 15 impacts of alternatives to license renewal.16 The objective of the review is to 17 determine if the environmental impacts of license 18 renewal are so great, that license renewal would not 19 be a reasonable option.20 The staff prepares and environmental 21 impact statement, otherwise known as an EIS, to 22 document its environmental review. Next slide, 23 please.24 This diagram illustrates the safety and 25 environmental review processes represented at the top NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 13 1 and bottom of the slide.2 It also features two other considerations 3 in the Commission's decision on whether or not to 4 renew an operating license.5 The independent review is performed by the 6 Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards, or ACRS, 7 statutorily mandated by the Atomic Energy Act of 1954.8 The ACRS is a group of scientists and 9 nuclear experts who serve as a consulting body to the 10 Commission.

11 The ACRS performs an independent review of 12 the license renewal application as well as the NRC 13 staff safety evaluation.

They then report their 14 findings and recommendations directly to the 15 Commission.

16 Hearings may also be conducted concurrent 17 with the staff's review, and interested stakeholders 18 may submit concerns or contentions and request a 19 hearing. If a hearing is granted, the Commission 20 considers the outcome of the hearing process in its 21 decision of whether or not to issue a renewed license.22 Now I'm going to describe the 23 environmental review process in a little bit more 24 detail. Next slide, please.25 The National Environmental Policy Act of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 14 1 1969 requires that federal agencies follow a 2 systematic approach in evaluating potential 3 environmental impacts associated with certain actions.4 We are required to consider the impact of the proposed 5 action and also any mitigation for those impacts, that 6 we consider to be significant.

7 We're also required to consider 8 alternatives to proposed action, in this case it's 9 license renewal, and that includes energy alternatives 10 to the proposed action, mitigation alternatives, and 11 the no action alternative, which we examine the 12 environmental impacts associated with not issuing a 13 renewed license.14 The NRC has determined that an 15 environmental impact statement will be prepared for 16 proposed license renewal of the nuclear power plants.17 In preparing an EIS, the NRC conducts a scoping 18 process. The purpose of this scoping process is to 19 identify the significant issues to be analyzed in 20 depth.21 We are now gathering information for an 22 EIS and are here to collect public comments on the 23 scope of the review, that is, what environmental 24 impacts should the staff consider for the proposed 25 license renewal of Indian Point?NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 15 1 The staff has developed a generic EIS that 2 addresses a number of issues that are common to all 3 nuclear power plants. The staff intends to supplement 4 that generic EIS with a site-specific EIS, which will 5 address issues that are specific to the Indian Point 6 site.7 The staff also reexamines the conclusions 8 reached in the generic EIS to determine if there's any 9 new and significant information that would change 10 previous conclusions.

Next slide, please.11 For the environmental review, we have 12 established a team of specialists from the NRC staff 13 as well as contractors who are experts in various 14 fields and disciplines.

This slide gives you an idea 15 of the various areas we looked at during the 16 environmental review.17 Some of the areas include terrestrial and 18 aquatic ecology, environmental justice, hydrology and 19 radiation protection.

Next slide, please.20 The scoping period started on August 10th 21 when the Notice of Intent to prepare and EIS and 22 conduct scoping was published.

23 The NRC will be accepting comments on the 24 scope of the environmental review until October 12th.25 In general, we're looking for source of information NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v

16 1 about the environmental impact of continued operation 2 at Indian Point, that we should consider as we prepare 3 our environmental impact statement.

4 You can assist us in that process by 5 telling us, for example, what aspects of your local 6 community we should focus on; what local, 7 environmental, social and economic aspects that the 8 NRC should examine during our environmental review;9 and what reasonable alternatives are most appropriate 10 for the area.11 These are just some of the examples of the 12 input we're looking for, and they represent the kinds 13 of information we are seeking through the 14 environmental scoping process.15 Your comments today should be helpful in 16 providing insights of this nature. Next slide, 17 please.18 This slide illustrates the various 19 considerations that are factored into a decision to 20 issue a renewed operating license. So how do we use 21 your input today? Public comments are an important 22 part of the environmental review process.23 We consider all the comments that we 24 receive from the public during the scoping process as 25 well as comments received once the staff issues the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 17 1 draft environmental impact statement.

Next slide, 2 please.3 Now in addition to providing comments at 4 this meeting, there are other ways that you can submit 5 comments for our environmental review process.6 You can provide written comments to the 7 Chief of our Rule and Directives Branch, whose address 8 is on the slide above. You can also make comments in 9 person if you happen to be in Rockville, Maryland.10 We've also established an e-mail address 11 at the NRC for the specific purpose of receiving your 12 comments on the development of our draft environmental 13 impact statement and what you think the scope of our 14 review should be.15 That e-mail address is Indian 16 Pointeis@nrc.gov.

17 All of your comments will be collected, 18 reviewed, and considered, and as Lance had mentioned, 19 during this meeting, if you have written comments or 20 written speeches that you would like us to consider, 21 we will take them and enter them as part of the 22 transcript.

Next slide, please.23 This slide shows important milestone dates 24 for the environmental review process. The Notice of 25 Opportunity for Hearing was published on August 1st, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 18 1 followed by the Notice of Intent to prepare an.2 environmental impact statement and conduct scoping.3 The opportunity to submit contention for 4 our hearing closes on November 30th. That was 5 previously October 1st, but in response to a 6 congressional request, the Commission has extended 7 that date to November 30th.8 And if you'd like to have comments, that 9 you would like to submit outside of today's hearing, 10 you have also until October 12, as highlighted on the 11 slide, to submit those comments.12 This slide identifies the primary points 13 of contact within the NRC for the environmental 14 review.15 It also identifies where documents related 16 to our review may be found in the local area. The 17 Hendrick Hudson Free Library, the Field Library, and 18 the White Plains Public Library, have all agreed to 19 make the license renewal application available for 20 public review.21 When it is published for comment, the 22 draft environmental impact statement will also be 23 available at each library.24 These documents will also be on the NRC's 25 Web site at the Web address shown at the bottom of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 19 1 page.2 In addition, as you came in, you were 3 asked to fill out a registration card at our reception 4 table. If you've included your address on that card, 5 we will mail a copy of the draft and final EIS to you.6 This concludes my presentation and I will 7 turn it back to Lance. Thank you.8 THE COURT: Thanks, Bo. To start off the 9 speakers today, we have Chris Hogan from the New York 10 State Department of Environmental Conservation.

11 MR. HOGAN: Thanks, Lance. As he 12 indicated, I'm Chris Hogan and I am the project 13 manager for the New York State Department of 14 Environmental Conservation for the relicensing of 15 Indian Point's units 2 and 3. Department staff are 16 currently reviewing Entergy's environment report as 17 well as historical information and will be submitting 18 written comments on the scope of the draft 19 supplemental EIS before the close of the comment 20 period on October 12th, 2007.21 The purpose of my statement today is to 22 clarify the department's role in the relicensing and 23 other matters related to the facility.24 Now, in addition to our participation in 25 scoping, the department has been designated by NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 20 1 Governor Spitzer to take the lead for the state 2 executive agencies for the relicensing of Indian 3 Point. Acting in this role, the department intends to 4 file a request for a hearing and a petition for leave 5 to intervene in the relicensing proceeding, and the 6 department would like to thank NRC at this time for 7 the extension to submit those documents.

8 In their scoping comments, department 9 staff will be focusing on the potential natural 10 resource and aquatic impacts from the facility during 11 an additional license term of 20 years.12 The department's primary concern is the 13 potential impacts of the once-through cooling system 14 at the facility.

The two units combined currently 15 withdraw approximately 2.5 billion gallons of water 16 per day from the Hudson River.17 This results in the impingement of fish on 18 the intake screens and the entrapment of small fish, 19 fish larvae, and fish eggs within the cooling system 20 of the plant.21 In addition, the once-through cooling 22 system also results in a discharge of heated water, 23 because the water is used to absorb waste heat from 24 the operation of the generation equipment.

25 The discharge of the heated waste water NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 21 1 for both units is through a single discharge canal.2 The department is concerned with the 3 potential thermal impacts from the discharge on the 4 aquatic resources of the river. This information is 5 important because before the NRC can relicense at 6 Indian Point, the Clean Water Act requires that New 7 York State must certify that the state water quality 8 standards will be met during the new license term.9 This approval is referred to as a water 10 quality certification.

Based on the schedule 11 established by the NRC, the department anticipate 12 receipt of Entergy's water quality cert application in 13 approximately May 2008.14 Pursuant to New York State uniform 15 procedures regulations, the water quality certificate 16 application will be submit to public review and 17 comment.18 From the date of submission of the water 19 quality cert application, the department has one year 20 to issue, deny or waive the certificate.

21 The department looks forward to full 22 participation by the public in that process.23 In addition to the department's role in 24 the NRC relicensing process, there are two other 25 matters related to the facility in which the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 22 1 department has primary responsibility.

2 Under the RCRA authority delegated to the 3 department by the EPA, DEC regulates hazardous waste 4 management and remedial efforts at Indian Point, 5 including any potential groundwater contamination.

6 In addition, as the agency that 7 administers the environmental side of the NRC 8 agreement state program, DEC has taken a lead for the 9 state in the ongoing radiological groundwater 10 investigation.

Staff have been actively involved 11 throughout this process and will be reviewing the 12 soon-to-be-completed site hydrology report and any 13 remediation plans.14 The department also has jurisdiction over 15 the wastewater discharge from the facility through the 16 state pollutant discharge elimination system or SPDES 17 program.18 Through the SPDES program, the department 19 ensures that all discharges of wastewater meet state 20 water quality standards.

21 In addition, the SPDES program also allows 22 the department to regulate the withdrawal of water for 23 cooling purposes.

The department issued a draft SPDES 24 permit in November 2003 and commenced the 25 administrative process to modify the permit. The NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 23 1 draft permit is currently the subject of an 2 adjudicatory hearing and the department is awaiting a 3 commissioner's ruling on the appeals of the issues 4 that should be adjudicated.

The draft permit 5 currently requires Entergy to install cooling towers, 6 or equivalent technology, if the facility is 7 relicensed by the NRC.8 If you would like additional information 9 on the department's responsibilities with regard to 10 Indian Point, we have a table in the lobby. We have 11 two fact sheets that cover the groundwater remediation 12 and our role in the relicensing process and we'd be 13 happy to talk to you about either.14 Thank you for the opportunity to speak.15 MR. RAKOVAN: With that, I will turn 16 things over to Rich Barkley to--he's going to be 17 taking the yellow cards that you filled out, either 18 prior to coming tonight--or this afternoon, or when 19 you came today. If anyone hasn't filled one out, I 20 have some blank ones right here, so if you'll raise 21 your hand, I could bring one to you right now, if you 22 wish to speak. Rich is going to try to get everyone 23 up there, and again, I think Mr. Hogan did an 24 excellent job of keeping things quick, to the point, 25 and keeping to a couple minutes which was great. If NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 24 1 everyone could try to follow that, we'd really 2 appreciate it.3 And if you want to come up to the center 4 mike, that'd be great. if you want to use the podium 5 mike as well, that'd be fine. So with that, i'll turn 6 it over to Rich.7 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Thank you, Lance. At 8 this time, we have 23 people who have signed up to 9 speak. Some of them have not made it clear, whether 10 they want to speak in the afternoon or in the evening.11 So some of the people that I call may or may not be 12 here. Those people who do not respond now, I'll put 13 in the pile for this evening.14 Again, I would like you to limit your 15 comments to five minutes. I will give you a visual 16 cue at one minute and then try to prompt you at the 17 end of your time to turn over to the next speaker, 18 given the sheer number of people we have to speak.19 The first three speakers I'm going to 20 call, I'm going to ask one person to respond to the 21 microphone at a time, but I'm going to call three 22 names up to keep people kind of on cue.23 The first three people have asked to 24 speak, first is Taylor Palmer, the second is Manajo 25 Green and the third one is James Knubel.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 25 1 MR. PALMER: Good afternoon.

My name is 2 Taylor Palmer. I'm representing Congresswoman Nita 3 Lowey. I'm actually not going to make a a statement.

4 We just wanted to have a quick question answered.5 This might be something the NRC wants to answer 6 behind, but essentially the question that we have for 7 today, we wanted to, first of all, thank the NRC for 8 granting the extension on the intervening petitions.

9 That was very important to the congresswoman, for one, 10 and it will allow proper evaluation of all these 11 environmental impact statements and everything that 12 needs to be considered for Indian Point.13 My one question for the NRC today deals 14 with, as we know, as many, as the parties have 15 mentioned today, numerous events have occurred at 16 Indian Point, several of which have in the last month 17 alone. Specifically as the DEC just mentioned, the 18 leak in the spent fuel pool.19 These recent missteps and violations are 20 an obvious safety problem for the local residents, and 21 the one question I actually have is how will the 22 operational safety and the operational status of the 23 sirens, together with all these other factors, 24 including the leak of the spent fuel pool, especially 25 the performance indicator change from green to white NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 for the plant operations, factor in the relicensing of Indian Point Facility 2 and Indian Point 3?MR. RAKOVAN: As I said when we started the meeting, we're going to try to keep this more to comment. So I think Roni Franovich was going to step out and go over that with you, if that's okay.MR. PALMER: Yeah. We just wanted to make sure that the question was presented in front of you, so that it could be--MR. RAKOVAN: Okay, and it's in the transcript, so--MR. PALMER: We appreciate it.MR. RAKOVAN: Thank you.Rich.MR. BARKLEY: Manajo is coming this evening. Jim Knubel.MR. KNUBEL: Good afternoon.

My name is Jim Knubel. I live in Putnam Valley. I'm a member of New York Area which is an association of businesses, labor leaders, and individuals that support the relicensing of Indian Point.I'd like to start by thanking the men and women that work at Indian Point for the continued safe operation of that unit.In looking at the scoping of the unit, I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 27 1 guess I would ask that the NRC consider the study that 2 was done by the National Academy of Science, which 3 says that even with Indian Point, there's going to be 4 a major shortfall of electricity for southeast New 5 York, and then it gives eight conditions which have to 6 be met, so that the possibility of closing Indian 7 Point can exist.8 I will note that since the report was 9 issued, not one of those conditions have been met.10 I also think that in looking at the 11 environmental impact, you've got to look at the 12 totality of the input, including all the key 13 alternatives, which I think the NRC already mentioned, 14 including the impact of not running the plant. I 15 think you have to look at air quality, water quality, 16 aesthetics, the economy, employment, taxes, cost and 17 reliability of power, and all of those factors as well 18 as the water quality issues have to be addressed.

19 In addressing the issue of the water 20 quality, I do think it's interesting that there's a 21 plethora of data on the Hudson River, so I don't think 22 there's an issue as far as data concerning the quality 23 of the water in the river.24 I do think it's interesting, hearing from 25 the state, that the quality of that river--I mean, the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 28 1 fish stocks are at all-time highs, except in certain 2 key species, a couple species. It's interesting, if 3 you're against the plant the species are down because 4 of the plant, but if they're up, it's not because of 5 the plant. I don't think you can have it both ways.6 And the last thing I will say is I think 7 the NRC needs to stick to the template that they've 8 used in other plants. I see a lot of political 9 pressure to the NRC, to try to change the process from 10 a template that's been used at 40 some odd other 11 plants, used successfully, and I am disappointed, 12 actually, that they've extended the comment period and 13 the period for intervention, and there was no basis 14 given for that, just people want more time.15 I think that's just a method to extend the 16 cost and the time of this whole process, and I don't 17 appreciate kibitzing from the audience, and so thank 18 you very much. I appreciate your efforts.19 MR. [Off-mike remark]20 MR. RAKOVAN: Sir, we're not getting this 21 on the--if you're going to ask a question here, let me 22 give you the mike real quick, please make it quick, 23 and please respect other people's views.24 MR. MARTINELLI:

I just would like to ask 25 this gentleman, A, who pays his paycheck, and two, I'd NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 29 1 like to point out to him, because he said he did not 2 appreciate the extension of time, one reason for that 3 extension of time, as a clarification, was the fact 4 that the department at Entergy sent a FOIA request 5 letter to us telling us that they would not be able to 6 fulfill their obligations under FOIA until October 7 27th, which meant that documents absolutely necessary 8 to review the Entergy LRA were not and will not be 9 available until 26 days after the original deadline 10 for filing of our contentions.

11 MR. RAKOVAN: Thank you for the 12 clarification.

Rich, our next speaker.13 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. The next three 14 speakers we're going to have up are Elizabeth Segal, 15 Gary Shaw, and then Phil Musegaas.16 MS. SEGAL: Hi. Good afternoon, 17 everybody.

My name's Elizabeth Segal. I live in 18 Tarrytown, New York, which is about 13 miles from the 19 Indian Point plant, and first of all, I want to say 20 that obviously I think all the environmental concerns 21 are tremendously important, and I'm very grateful that 22 serious consideration of them is a part of this 23 process.24 And I know that that's the focus of this 25 meeting, but I'm going to be very brief because that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 30 1 isn't what I want to speak to.2 What I want to speak to is just as a 3 citizen of this area, I know, cause I was also at the 4 meeting in June, I'm following this as closely as I 5 can, that the relicensing process is limited, as I 6 understand it, to looking at aging equipment and these 7 environmental issues, and that as things currently 8 stand, that means a lot of other concerns that people 9 have about whether Indian Point should continue to 10 exist just don't fall under this process.11 And I've also heard, often from the NRC, 12 that many of them are dealt with on an ongoing basis, 13 but some of them, for example, the issue of the 14 population density and the road networks, and so 15 forth, which by just not even, like up for 16 reconsideration, although I also know that some 17 legislators are requesting that they be put back in 18 the equation, and I, for one, find it extremely 19 frustrating that that's not part--like this is this 20 great opportunity to ask ourselves, is this really, 21 given all of our needs, and all the pluses and minuses 22 and the risks involved, is this really the best thing 23 for us here, to have this plant in this dense 24 population area?25 So I feel frustrated that that's not NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 31 1 currently part of the conversation going on and 2 hopeful that it will be.3 MR. RAKOVAN: Thank you very much for your 4 comments.5 MR. SHAW: My name is Gary Shaw and I live 6 less than six miles from Indian Point. I work as a 7 designer of market research projects and a data 8 analyst, so I'm very familiar with the use of 9 benchmarks and action standards.

10 I spend considerable energy to ensure that 11 the metrics in my research, that are used as the basis 12 for business decisions, are well-defined and 13 consistent with established protocols.

14 That's one of the reason that I'm so 15 concerned about the NRC's evaluations of Indian Point 16 and the relicensing process overall.17 One of the terms that the NRC uses 18 repeatedly is "reasonable assurance" and this term is 19 used in evaluations of a range of operations and 20 systems but it's not at all clearly defined.21 A primary example of this is the Agency's 22 approval of the Indian Point emergency evacuation 23 plan, after James Lee Witt issued a report that the 24 plan was, quote, inadequate to protect the public from 25 an unacceptable dose of radiation.

Unquote.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 32 1 On a Friday in July 2003, FEMA, under the 2 infamous Michael Brown, approved the evacuation plan 3 and that judgment was quickly accepted by the NRC, 4 saying the plan provided reasonable assurance that it 5 would be effective.

Ironically, on that very day, all 6 the major roadways in Westchester were jammed through 7 the entire day because of a single accident on the 8 George Washington Bridge during the morning rush hour.9 I still wonder how the NRC defined 10 reasonable assurance for that ridiculous judgment.11 When I think of that day, I have a mental 12 image of those traffic jams happening while Indian 13 Point's sirens wailed. That is the sirens that were 14 working that day.15 Now the NRC is considering extending the 16 operating licenses of Indian Point's Units 2 and 3 for 17 20 more years beyond their expirations in 2013 and 18 2015, respectively, and will cite reasonable assurance 19 that the plants will remain safe and environmentally 20 benign for that 20 year extension.

21 We know that there are an undetermined 22 number of leaks of radioactive elements into the 23 environment and that the sources of those leaks remain 24 uncertain.

25 Consequently, there are no known plans to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 33 1 stop the leakage. Especially disturbing is that large 2 sections of pipes are not accessible to inspection, 3 and the only way for the NRC to evaluate whether those 4 pipes have corroded or will remain viable for 20 more 5 years is to dig test wells, and declare that there is 6 not currently a leak at that site, at that time.7 And since Indian Point 1 has been 8 nonoperational for decades, and that plant is leaking, 9 with no plan for stopping the leakage, wouldn't the 10 discovery of additional leaks at some point in the 11 future simply mean that we have more uncorrectable 12 problems?13 If the NRC is not capable of stating how 14 many linear feet of piping are inaccessible, or how 15 many 35 year old welds are inaccessible, and where 16 each of them is located, how will they define 17 reasonable assurance that those pipes and welds will 18 be viable until the years 2033 and 2035?19 Since we already know that this is the 20 only nuclear plant in the country leaking Strontium 90 21 and Cesium 137, wouldn't that information be 22 important?

23 We also know that prior test wells found 24 concentrations of contamination many times the EPA 25 level for drinking water, but since the leaks are not NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 34 1 currently going into known drinking water sources, the 2 NRC has dismissed them as nonhazardous.

3 I would like to know what specific 4 radiological readings would define an unacceptable 5 level that is not going directly into a known drinking 6 source.7 In other words, if the NRC cannot provide 8 a well-defined set of metrics, how can they establish 9 standards that must be met to warrant 20 additional 10 years of operations for this aging and leaking 11 facility?12 We've already seen the NRC's idea of 13 reasonable assurance.

With the potential danger of 14 radiological contamination, how can we accept this 15 Agency's judgments if they cannot define their 16 standards and prove the validity of their metrics?17 Thank you.18 MR. RAKOVAN: Thank you, sir.19 Rich, do you want to--sir, if you could 20 introduce yourself again, just so we know who you are.21 It's been three people, so--22 MR. MUSEGAAS:

I'm Philip Musegaas.

I 23 represent Riverkeeper.

We just have some very brief 24 comments today. Then we'll be filing detailed written 25 comments by the October 12th deadline.l NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 35 1 Indian l's cooling system sucks in 2.5 2 billion gallons of Hudson River water a day, 3 discharges an enormous thermal plume that damages the 4 Hudson River ecosystem, and the intake of cooling 5 water kills a billion fish a year. This is 6 established in New York State studies, in 7 Riverkeeper's own studies. It's an established fact.8 This plant has a negative impact on Hudson River 9 fisheries.

10 One of the only fish species that's doing 11 well in the river is striped bass and that's because 12 all the other species are being destabliized.

So I 13 just wanted to clarify that point in response to an 14 earlier comment.15 The NRC must conduct an accurate 16 scientific assessment of these impacts on Hudson River 17 fish populations that relies on the most current 18 scientific studies, which show conclusively, that many 19 critical fish species in the Hudson are harmed and 20 negatively impacted by Indian Point's operation.

21 The NRC cannot rely on Entergy's renewal 22 application to prepare the draft environmental impact 23 statement.

Entergy, in fact, is relying on outdated 24 industry-funded studies that say there is no 25 significant impact on the Hudson River from their NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 36 1 operations.

This is flatly untrue.2 My second comment. Nuclear waste is 3 piling up at Indian Point because the Yucca Mountain 4 waste dump will probably never open for decades, and 5 who knows how long.6 Why won't the NRC examine the 7 environmental impacts of this problem during the 8 relicensing review? Indian Point's spent fuel pools 9 are virtually full, and the Indian Point 1 and Indian 10 Point 2 pools have been leaking nuclear waste into the 11 Hudson River for years.12 How long will nuclear waste be stored on 13 the banks of the Hudson River? This is a basic 14 fundamental question that needs to be answered before 15 they relicense this plant, and the NRC is refusing to 16 answer it. In fact they don't know the answer. This 17 is a problem that has to be addressed.

18 The NRC only looks at coal and natural gas 19 plants as reasonable alternatives under NEPA to 20 replacing Indian Point's energy output in their 21 environmental impact studies.22 Why does the NRC refuse to consider a 23 combination of renewable energy such as wind, solar, 24 geothermal, combined with conservation and clean 25 natural gas to replace Indian Point as a National NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 37 1 Academy of Sciences study suggests and lays out a road 2 map for?3 The problem is the NRC is relying on a 4 very outdated 1996 generic environmental impact 5 statement that does not reflect the realities of 6 today's world. It does not reflect 9/11, does not 7 reflect the advances in renewal energy, does not 8 reflect the failure of Yucca Mountain to open in any 9 foreseeable timeframe.

10 As a matter of fact, this generic EIS, 11 which I hope the NRC explained a little bit in the 12 introduction, it was passed in 1996. It was required 13 under the NRC regulations to be updated every ten 14 years. So far, it hasn't been updated.15 We're unable to get an answer, clearly, 16 from the NRC, as to when there might be an update to 17 this GEIS, and so in fact they're relying on nearly 12 18 year old data to support this limited environmental 19 review, and we don't think that's acceptable.

That's 20 it. Thank you.21 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Our next three 22 speakers are Lloyd Douglas, followed by Glenn Rickles 23 and then Michael Otis.24 Lloyd.25 MR. DOUGLAS: Good afternoon.

My name is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 38 1 Lloyd Douglas. I'm the owner of a small minority 2 business consulting firm. We do minority and women-3 owned business opportunities.

I'm also representing 4 an association of minority and women entrepreneurs.

5 Entergy has been partnering with us in 6 terms of creating opportunities for minority and 7 women-owned business.

When minority and women-owned 8 businesses get contracts, they hire from the 9 community.

10 Part of why we are in support of their 11 request for license renewal has to do with what we 12 perceive as a less costly form of energy.13 I've had the good fortune of being part of 14 an advisory group, working with our current lieutenant 15 governor, one of his responsibilities is energy, along 16 with minority and women-owned business, and we have 17 concerns about a dependency on foreign oil.18 For those of you who drive, you know that 19 on the market, oil is going about $80 a barrel, and we 20 can feel it at the pump.21 The other issue that we're concerned about 22 is environmental.

When you look at the residual 23 effect from respiratory ailments based upon sulfur 24 dioxide and carbon dioxide, that goes into the air 25 from other forms of energy creation, and when you look NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 39 1 at the residual effect from the World Trade Center, 2 six years later, I think we have to be concerned about 3 what's going into the environment.

4 And we also believe that this is another 5 option in terms of the environment.

We respect the 6 NRC's judgment and its scoping process in terms of its 7 review, in terms of renewal process, and based upon 8 these and other factors, we're requesting or we're 9 supporting the renewal. Thank you.10 MR. RICKLES: Good afternoon.

My name is 11 Glenn Rickles. I am here today on behalf of 12 Riverkeeper.

I also reside in Croton on Hudson, which 13 is approximately five to six miles away from the 14 Indian Point plant.15 We put forward today four environmental 16 issues with a common theme. The total lack of 17 consideration of Indian Point's license renewal on 18 climate change and global warming.19 Pursuant to the National Environmental 20 Policy Act, seminal law on point, as well as the NRC's 21 own regulations, the NRC is mandated to fully consider 22 and meaningfully evaluate more environmentally 23 friendly and sustainable alternatives to the 24 relicensure of Indian Point.25 Entergy, in its environmental report in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v

40 1 support of relicensure, unfortunately presents a 2 wholly inaccurate and legally insufficient picture of 3 the positive environmental effects of alternative 4 sustainable replacement energy sources such as wind, 5 hydroelectric, biomass, geothermal or energy 6 conservation.

7 Nor does Entergy present an accurate or 8 legally sufficient picture of Indian Point's 9 contribution to global warming. Cases in point.10 Entergy says in its environmental report, 11 for those of you who have read it, it's section 7.5, 12 that alternative and sustainable energy sources, and 13 I quote, "were not--were not considered as reasonable 14 replacement for Indian Point." 15 As will be delineated in a later-written 16 submission, such a cavalier dismissal by Entergy is 17 both contrary to law and simply flies in the face of 18 generally-accepted science.19 In its 2006 report on replacement of 20 Indian Point's power generation, the National Academy 21 of Sciences states that Indian Point's power can be, 22 can be replaced by a variety of energy sources, 23 including sustainable green sources and energy 24 conservation.

25 Issue two. Entergy, in its application NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 41 1 for license renewal, presents a picture of one 2 license, not two separate licenses sought to be 3 renewed. This is far more than a simple semantic 4 distinction but one fraught with legal consequence.

5 For example, in its environmental report, 6 Indian Point states that green sustainable energy 7 sources cannot replace the combined 2158 megawatts of 8 power generated by Indian Point 2 and Indian Point 3 9 combined, and the green energy sources need not be 10 considered, addressed, or analyzed.

While 11 I will not address today the accuracy of 12 Entergy's assertion, it is clear, beyond purview, that 13 the combined 2158 megawatts standard is, as a matter 14 of law, simply wrong.15 Each application for each plant must be 16 addressed separately and the law mandates that the 17 only correct standard of comparison is Indian Point 18 2's 1078 megawatts, and Indian Point 3's 1080 19 megawatts.

20 Issue three. Entergy based on NUREG 1437, 21 it is a NRC regulation, it's section 8.1, states that 22 energy conservation need not be considered, need not 23 be considered, or analyzed, regardless of its positive 24 environmental contribution as it is not a single 25 discrete source of energy.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 42 1 Entergy's reliance in their environmental 2 report on NUREG is again simply wrong as a matter of 3 law and runs contrary to the National Environmental 4 Policy Act and NRC's own regulations.

5 Issue four. The law mandates that the 6 detrimental environmental effects of license renewal 7 on climate change and global warming be fully 8 considered and fully analyzed.9 Entergy, in its environmental report, at 10 section 8.4.3.2.1, states that no carbon dioxide is 11 emitted by the production of nuclear energy.12 Nonsense.

Nonsense.

Completely wrong. The statement 13 is simply inaccurate.

There is no disagreement among 14 scientists, none at all, that large amounts of carbon 15 dioxide is produced in the nuclear power life cycle, 16 be it from uranium mining, milling of uranium, 17 refining and enrichment of uranium, refurbishment of 18 the plants, transportation of uranium, etcetera, 19 etcetera, etcetera.20 These well-known facts are simply ignored 21 by Entergy in its environmental report. Nowhere does 22 Entergy address, as mandated by law, that nuclear's 23 production of C02 is at a far higher level than would 24 be produced by green, sustainable energy sources.25 In sum, what we see is a denial at every NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 43 1 step of Entergy's contribution to climate change and 2 a refusal to consider and analyze conservation and 3 replacement energy supplied by a portfolio of sources 4 inclusive of green sustainable energy.5 As will be fully delineated in a written 6 submittal, such is wrong as a matter of law and is 7 wrong as a matter of public policy.8 Let us now address the crisis of climate 9 change and not face the questions of our children--I'm 10 almost done--who will ask in the future, you knew the 11 risks and you knew the solutions to climate change.12 Why did you not address them when you had the chance?13 Why did you put us in this untenable situation?

Thank 14 you.15 MR. RAKOVAN: Thank you, sir. Okay.16 Michael.17 MR. OTIS: Good afternoon.

My name is 18 Mike Otis. I'm a professor of electrical engineering 19 at SUNY New Paltz. I am also an active member or 20 active with members of the New Paltz Foundation, SUNY 21 New Paltz Foundation, who along with myself and other 22 faculty, have taken a special interest in trying to do 23 as much as we can to bring along next generation of 24 engineers that this country so desperately needs.25 Our shared special passion is to develop NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 44 1 more diverse engineering students at the college level 2 and to help create career paths and hands-on 3 experience for these bright young people.4 It is in that capacity that I've had the 5 pleasure of working with Entergy and some of the 6 senior managers to help provide pathways for 7 engineering students at SUNY New Paltz, as we try to 8 build our program and pave the way for new students 9 and recruits.10 Therefore, I know firsthand that Entergy, 11 the operators of Indian Point and many other nuclear 12 power plants, is a committed and socially responsible 13 corporate citizen.14 I also interface with many business people 15 on our engineering advisory board, who understand the 16 needs and demands of small business and entrepreneurs.

17 High energy and electric costs here, in 18 New York State, are driving small businesses out of 19 the state and stifling innovation and economic 20 activity.21 I forget who said computer chips without 22 electricity are just sand.23 With regard to nuclear power at Indian 24 Point, here's what I think. It's affordable.

Nuclear 25 power consistently remains one of the cheapest sources NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 45 1 of power in the world. Its price is predictable and 2 stable, unlike oil or natural gas.3 Indian Point has saved New York City and 4 Hudson Valley businesses and residents billions of 5 dollars on the price of energy. It's clean. This is 6 of particular importance to me since my wife and I 7 have recently increased our family size by adding a 8 daughter who is now one year old. I want Caitlin to 9 have the same opportunities as I had growing up and 10 not be affected by the changes in quality of life due 11 to global warming.12 A case in point. Indian Point emits 13 almost zero greenhouse gases. Increased reliance on 14 nonpolluting nuclear energy represents our best chance 15 of meeting the region's clean air and maintaining our 16 standard of living while improving the environment.

17 The same cannot be said with the world's 18 coalfire plants which emit nearly 2 billion tons of 19 C02 annually.20 It's critical.

There's currently no 21 viable energy alternative to replace the more than 22 2000 megawatts of power generated by the Indian Point 23 energy center. Indian Point provides between 20 to 40 24 percent of the region's power.25 It's American technology that creates NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 46 1 American energy. It is a source of energy that does 2 not depend on international production and is not 3 affected by international pressures or politics.4 As an educator at an engineering school 5 whose focus is on educating and training more diverse 6 engineering students to help move our state forward, 7 what could be more important than to continue to 8 develop and utilize home-grown technology rather than 9 just exporting our best engineers for other countries 10 to benefit? Yeah. But they say it shouldn't be here.11 From both an environmental and reliable 12 standard, Indian Point couldn't be in a better 13 location.

Nuclear power in New York avoids 42,000 14 tons of nitrous oxide, which is equivalent to 2.2 15 million passenger cars, which would otherwise be 16 polluting the air due to the output from natural gas 17 or a coal facility.18 It's also a critical baseload of power 19 close to its utility center. It's a known fact that 20 the further electricity has to travel, the less 21 reliable it becomes.22 For all my reasons mentioned above, I 23 strongly support the application for renewal of Indian 24 Point's operating license as a benefit to the region 25 and hope to continue work with Entergy to train and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 47 1 mentor our young engineers.

Thank you.2 MR. RAKOVAN: At this point I would like 3 to compliment all our speakers at this point in time 4 in holding to the time limits we've asked for. I 5 greatly appreciate your courtesy.6 MR. BARKLEY: The next three speakers are 7 Charlie Donaldson, followed by John Kelly, and then 8 Marilyn Elie.9 MR. RAKOVAN: And again, when the speakers 10 come up, if you could just reintroduce yourself and 11 let us know if there's a particular affiliation you're 12 with. That way, we have it in the transcript.

13 Thanks.14 MR. DONALDSON:

How are you all doing 15 today? Good. I work for a fellow named Andrew Cuomo, 16 is the attorney general of this state, so I'm here for 17 the state attorney general's office, and I will, 18 unlike most lawyers, try to be brief.19 My name's Charlie Donaldson, Environmental 20 Protection Bureau.21 We appreciate the opportunity to provide 22 oral comments regarding the scope of the environmental 23 review proceeding under the National Environmental 24 Policy Act.25 As an initial matter, we would request NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 48 1 that the various oral and written comments concerning 2 the scope of the environmental review be addressed, 3 one way or the other, whenever the NRC puts out the 4 draft environmental impact statements.

5 In other words, what we're saying is if 6 somebody says something, you folks decide that it 7 doesn't belong under the environmental impact 8 statements, then say it doesn't and then say why not.9 What that would allow us to do is take a 10 look at all of the issues and we could get some 11 transparency in this proceeding, rather than waiting 12 for the final environmental impact statement and find 13 out there were issues that were left out.14 As to specific issues, we'd like to offer 15 a couple of preliminary comments concerning particular 16 areas.17 First, the review should include a 18 rigorous evaluation of all the impacts of the plants.19 In addition, the review should analyze the population 20 density around the reactor and the facility, which is 21 unique in this nation. That's the population, not the 22 plants. Environmental alternatives including, but not 23 limited to, energy efficiency, photovoltaics, wind, 24 biomass, and the usual list of suspects.25 Alternatives to each unit, not to both NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 49 1 units together.

Emergency planning and evacuation, 2 security, and the spent fuel pools. Thank you all for 3 the opportunity to make our comments here today and 4 we'll see how she goes from here.5 MR. RAKOVAN: Thank you, sir.6 MR. KELLY: My name is John Kelly. I live 7 less than four miles from Indian Point with my family.8 I've lived there for over 30 years. I am the retired 9 director of licensing for Indian Point, so I guess I 10 pay my bills with my pension check and my Social 11 Security check.12 I'd like to bring up one point which has 13 been touched on by a few of the earlier speakers, 14 which I think is vitally important, and I found it 15 interesting that for some reason the New York DEC did 16 not mention this as one of the issues they're 17 considering relative to the environmental impact of 18 Indian Point in the renewal process.19 While I was still employed by Entergy, 20 before I retired in 2003, we hired an engineering firm 21 in Lyndhurst, New Jersey, to do a study of what would 22 be the impact on air pollution of the shutdown of the 23 Indian Point plants.24 In doing that analysis, they looked at, 25 quite frankly, only those plants that were currently NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 50 1 available.

If you shut the plant down, obviously, 2 you're going to replace the power with currently 3 available sources. And they did an analysis which 4 came up with some interesting numbers.5 If you shut Indian Point down, you would 6 have to replace the power with fossil-fired plants in 7 the immediate vicinity in New York City and in the 8 Hudson Valley. That would result in another 14 9 million tons of carbon dioxide per year put into the 10 atmosphere in this area. Another 63,000 tons of 11 sulfur oxides per year. Another 22,000 tons of 12 nitrous oxides. Another 2000 tons of particulate 13 matter, PMl0, that's particulates with sizes up to ten 14 microns.15 About 1300 tons of carbon monoxide, and 16 approximately 200 tons of volatile organic carbons.17 All of these pollutants would be emitted 18 into an area where we're already in noncompliance 19 relative to ozone. So we already have a pollution 20 problem in the atmosphere which would be substantially 21 aggravated simply by the shutdown of Indian Point.22 An earlier speaker noted that there is 23 some carbon dioxide released as a result of the 24 uranium fuel cycle. That's true. An analysis was 25 done recently by a European Union organization and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 51 1 they looked at the entire fuel cycle from mining and 2 milling and enrichment through reprocessing, which 3 they're doing in Europe, and they concluded that the 4 amount of carbon dioxide released as a result of the 5 entire uranium fuel cycle is less than 5 percent of 6 that produced by coal or oil or natural gas per 7 megawatt produced.8 So yes, there is a very small amount of 9 carbon dioxide in greenhouse gases produced by nuclear 10 power but it's extraordinarily small in concern, 11 relative to that which comes from fossil power.12 One other thing I did want to mention is 13 on the Hudson River. There have been earlier talks 14 about the Hudson River and the impact on the Hudson 15 River.16 As a result of a mandate by the New York 17 State DEC , and agreements that were made almost 30 18 years ago, the utilities at Indian Point funded an 19 environmental study of the Hudson River to the tune of 20 approximately

$2 million per year for the last 30 21 years, and that money has been spent, not at the 22 direction of the utilities but at the direction of the 23 New York State DEC and a group of environmental 24 organizations overseeing the expenditure of those 25 funds.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 52 1 A New York State DEC representative in a 2 meeting in Washington, D.C., approximately five years 3 ago, said that we probably have the best set of data 4 on fish population studies in the world as a result of 5 this research that's been done on the Hudson River.6 Research of that extent, and of that 7 massive a nature, can sometimes result in some 8 differences of opinion as to the conclusions as to 9 what it all means.10 But we have been studying the Hudson River 11 for 30 years. We have been doing that study under the 12 direction of people who don't have a vested interest 13 as a utility or as a company trying to run at a 14 profit.15 This has been directed by the 16 environmental protection organization in New York 17 State and environmental organizations.

18 One of the conclusions, as I just said, 19 was that it's probably the best set of data on any 20 estuary in the world. I personally believe from my 21 work, over the many years that I worked at Indian 22 Point, that it demonstrates that there has been no 23 significant environmental impact on the population of 24 adult fish.25 There's no question that the plants kill NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 53 1 fish eggs. No one's arguing that point.2 Over 90 percent of fish eggs, however, die 3 anyway in the environment, as part of the natural 4 environment, even if the plants weren't there, and it 5 becomes food for other fish. That's biology.6 And so yes, there are impacts but they are 7 insignificant in terms of the adult fish population.

8 So I would want to make sure that the NRC takes into 9 consideration the possible atmospheric impact of 10 shutting the plants down and what would be used in 11 order to replace that plant. Thank you.12 MR. BARKLEY: Marilyn Elie? There you go.13 MS. ELIE: Good afternoon.

I'm Marilyn 14 Elie. I am a co-founder of Westchester Citizens 15 Awareness Network and a member of the Indian Point 16 Safe Energy Coalition.

I live about two, maybe two 17 and a half miles from the plant, and this is an issue 18 I have been following for the last 11 years.19 I too would like to thank the people who 20 work at Indian Point. They have a tough job, and by 21 their standards, they do it well. They're very 22 concerned, we have lots of differences of opinion, but 23 it's a good job with a good salary and a good pension, 24 and if and when, from my perspective, when that plant 25 closes down, all those things need to be addressed.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 54 1 However, that's not why I'm here today for 2 this environmental scoping session.3 There's been a lot of talk about the 4 carbon footprint of the nuclear reactors at Indian 5 Point, and you don't see the release there but it 6 happens, and because we are a country, because this is 7 one planet, because we are looking at global warming, 8 it's very important that we look at the entire fuel 9 cycle.10 Now maybe this will turn out to be the 11 battle of the studies, because the studies from Europe 12 that I've been reading, particularly the one from 13 Denmark, says that the carbon emissions from nuclear 14 power plants is about equal to or slightly greater 15 than gas. Much better than coal, but still very 16 significant.

17 There is a coalfire generator, many, many 18 megawatts, in Paducah, Kentucky, that churns out 19 greenhouse gases and that electricity from that plant 20 is used in the processing of uranium, of the fuel 21 rods.22 So nuclear is not coal-free, and I'd also 23 like to make it very clear, on this record, in this 24 transcript, that no one in the coalition is calling 25 for more coal plants. There are alternatives.

That NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 55 1 will be part of an intervenor petition, and hopefully 2 it will be part of what the NRC looks at as part of a 3 countrywide, statewide, local initiative for clean 4 energy.5 Nuclear energy is not clean nor is it 6 cheap. It's heavily subsidized by the taxpayer.

That 7 needs to be understood, if we're going to have a 8 reasonable dialogue in this community about whether 9 the plants stay open or not.10 Here's my question, and I'm going to say 11 it in several ways, because I really need to see, we 12 all really need to see an answer to this.13 The NRC has already conceded, said, 14 stated, that there is a carbon footprint for nuclear 15 power plants. They have a generic environmental 16 study.17 Well, now we're doing the specific study.18 What is the carbon footprint for this particular pair 19 of reactors in this particular part of the country?20 And what happens from the coal emission, 21 the emissions from the coal-fired plant in Kentucky?22 My understanding is that we end up with it in New York 23 as acid rain. How does that cycle play into the 24 economics of our forests and our lakes with the high 25 acid and the lack of fish, in our dying forests? All NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 56 1 of that's an economic impact and all of that needs to 2 be looked at in an environmental cycle.3 So let me say that one more time. How 4 much greenhouse gas is released during the entire fuel 5 cycle for Indian Point? One year from now, when this 6 meeting comes back, or when these experts come back 7 and present their draft report, I will be here in the 8 audience, and I will be looking for the question and 9 I'll be looking for the answer.10 I hope people here will too, because we 11 keep hearing things. It does, it doesn't, it's a 12 little bit, it's not very much. So this is a chance 13 to definitively answer that question, and I really 14 hope that the panel of experts will think about it, 15 present good science, and come to a conclusion that we 16 can all look at and make adequate decisions in that 17 regard. Thank you.18 MR. BARKLEY: All right. Our next three 19 speakers are Marie Quinten of the Pace Litigation 20 Clinic, followed by Susan Shapiro of FUSE, followed by 21 Hazel Dukes of the NAACP.22 Marie.23 MS. QUINTEN: Hello. I'm Marie Quinten 24 with the Pace Litigation Clinic. We have some 25 comments on the safety concerns, some of them NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 57 1 mentioned but are worth repeating.

The Nuclear 2 Regulatory Commission decision not to require Indian 3 Point to address terrorist attacks, the threat of 4 terrorist attacks during the relicensing review is 5 wrong, and leaves nuclear power plants vulnerable to 6 terrorist attacks in the future.7 The 9/11 Commission report indicated that 8 Al Qaeda terrorists considered targeting nuclear power 9 plants in their attack but wrongly believed that these 10 plants were heavily defended.11 The report also made clear that at least 12 one of the planes that struck the World Trade Center 13 flew down the Hudson River past Indian Point power 14 plant on its way to New York.15 A recent independent government study 16 concluded that certain types of spent fuel pools were 17 vulnerable to terrorist attack, that could leave to 18 fuel pool fire, resulting in catastrophic public 19 health, environmental and economic impacts.20 Despite these facts, the NRC has 21 consistently refused to review its security 22 requirements, to defend against the size and scale of 23 9/11 attacks.24 Given the continued failure of the Federal 25 Government to establish a long-term repository for NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 58 1 nuclear waste at Yucca Mountain, the safety, security 2 and environmental issues arising from storing spent 3 nuclear fuel should be addressed during the licensing 4 renewal process when other aspects of the plant's 5 extended operation are being reviewed.6 Even if Yucca Mountain is eventually 7 approved and put into use, there is only enough space 8 in the repository to store spent fuel produced by all 9 the nuclear plants in the U.S. until 2011.10 At that point, the repository will reach 11 its capacity.

As a result, all the spent fuel 12 produced during the additional 20 year life span of a 13 relicensed site will have to be stored on site.14 The security of both wet fuel pool and dry 15 cask storage should also be considered during the 16 relicensing process. Studies have shown that a 17 successful terrorist attack on spent fuel pools is 18 possible.

Based on these findings, NRC should amend 19 the regulations to require that the security of spent 20 fuel pools and dry cask storage be comprehensively 21 assessed during the relicensing period.22 Additionally, the potential environmental 23 impacts of storing spent fuel on site for an 24 additional 20 years, and beyond, should be addressed.

25 These potential impacts, environmental NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 59 1 impacts of a terrorist attack on the spent fuel pools, 2 must be assessed because it is based on new and 3 significant information that was not considered at the 4 time the general environmental impact statement was 5 prepared, that being a higher risk of attack after 6 9/11, higher density fuel storage, failure of Yucca 7 Mountain to open, etcetera.

Furthermore, the changes 8 in population and traffic patterns within the EPZ of 9 Indian Point, especially to the adequacy of the 10 emergency planning in case of an accident, should also 11 be comprehensively addressed.

12 MS. SHAPIRO: Hello. I'm Susan Shapiro.13 I'm the president of FUSE, Friends United for 14 Sustainable Energy, and we are members of IPSEC, 15 Indian Point Safe Energy Coalition.

16 We've been to many of these meetings, and 17 are involved, right now, preparing intervenor 18 petitions, as I know other people in this room are.19 This EIS scoping session is very important, that it's 20 on the record, and I agree with the AG's office, that 21 we want to know if comments are not included as to why 22 they are not included.

What we would be asking for in 23 the scoping of the environmental impact statement is 24 a comprehensive study of the effects Indian Point 1, 25 2, and 3, have on our environment in the Hudson NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 60 1 Valley.2 We ask specifically for--we would like a 3 specific carbon footprint of each one of these plants, 4 individually.

We'd like to know the true costs of 5 Indian Point. We're being told, by some people in the 6 audience here, that it's less expensive than other 7 forms of energy, when, in truth, if we do the studies, 8 and we look at the cost to the taxpayer dollar, it is 9 much, much more expensive.

These true costs must 10 include evacuation planning.11 They must include our tax that is being 12 transferred to the ratepayers for the decommissioning 13 fund. It must also include the insurance, the Price-14 Anderson Act, and the lack of insurance, and to look 15 at the true costs if, in the event an accident or a 16 radiological event occurred, what those true costs 17 would be for the Hudson Valley.18 Right now, those costs don't exist, and 19 nobody is talking about it, and right now, the 20 counties surrounding Indian Point are footing the bill 21 to support this private, profit-making center.22 Thirdly, we must talk about the waste 23 cycle. Nobody disagrees with the fact, at the end of 24 the day, you're stuck with the spent fuel. Right now, 25 it's a problem with all nuclear, they don't have an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 61 1 answer to it, and nobody, even the most ardent nuclear 2 supporter, will argue with that. There's no solution.3 You end up with high-level radioactive 4 waste, toxic waste, on the banks of our river. If you 5 go outside, you'll see a lot of red cups on a table.6 Those red cups are symbols--or not symbols. They're 7 a model, basically, of what the spent fuel pool dry 8 cask, the dry cask pad is going to look like. There's 9 going to be 75 Holtec casks not nailed down, standing 10 two feet apart on a cement pad.11 That's what they're planning here on top 12 of a radioactive fault line. So this needs to be 13 studied in the environmental impact statement, in the 14 event of what earthquake, what will happen to those 15 casks? Will they roll into the river? What effect it 16 will have on our entire environment.

17 Thirdly, on top of the current risks of 18 terrorism that we are now very aware of in the New 19 York area, this dry cask pad is a beautiful target 20 from the air. So that must be looked into as well as 21 the current risks of the spent fuel pools that are in 22 unprotected, basically unhardened sites, as well as 23 the lack of a proper security plan. Those all affect 24 the environmental impact of this site.25 Public health and safety cannot be NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 62 1 grandfathered in, and that is what Indian Point would 2 like to do. They would like to say this was sited, 3 this plant was sited actually before there was even 4 proper seismology sitings that were accepted by the 5 NRC, and we don't have to look at that again, even 6 though seismology science has become so far advanced.7 We are requesting, and adamantly asking, 8 that the entire siting criteria of a new plant be 9 looked at regarding the relicensing of Indian Point, 10 because you have to know that this is not a license 11 extension.

This is a new superseding license that 12 will be given to Indian Point. It's a brand new 13 license. The old license gets retired and they get a 14 new license.15 On that basis alone, they need to look at 16 all the siting requirements, which include the 17 population density, which include the water quality in 18 the ground, and in the river, which at this point is 19 compromised by the leaks.20 It includes the population--I said 21 population density. Evacuation planning, that we all 22 know is undoable and unworkable and unfixable.

So all 23 those initial siting--I think there are eight siting 24 criterias must come into play.25 Thirdly--or not thirdly. I don't know NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 63 1 what number I'm up to at this point. But the leaks.2 We are requesting a comprehensive study, and 3 remediation of the leaks before the plant can be 4 relicensed.

A normal business, whether it be a dry 5 cleaners, or whether it be a gas station, if it leaked 6 into the ground, it would be closed until it was fully 7 remediated.

8 Right now, there are unknown amounts of 9 radioactive effluent under the plant, and that is 10 leaking into our tidal river, and is affecting our 11 public health. Therefore, we are asking that a 12 comprehensive study which includes captured fish, 13 captured species, includes testing of the silt, a 14 comprehensive study which DEC should be involved in, 15 along with Indian Point and Entergy, and the NRC--it 16 must be done independent and done properly, and 17 completely.

18 MR. BARKLEY: Susan, can you wrap up your 19 remarks.20 MS. SHAPIRO: I'm getting there.21 MR. BARKLEY: Okay.22 MS. SHAPIRO: We also ask that in the 23 environmental impact statement a full, complete, 24 comprehensive study of the decommissioning fund be 25 evaluated.

Currently, the decommissioning fund is not NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 64 1 keeping up with the cost-of-living increase and it has 2 not been reevaluated for the ongoing leaks.3 At one of our last meetings here, we were 4 told that the only way that they were going to be able 5 to get the radioactive waste, the strontium and the 6 tritium out of the bedrock was to chisel it out, 7 because they couldn't blast it out and they certainly 8 couldn't dig it out. So we need to know the 9 comprehensive costs and whether there is actually 10 enough money in the decommissioning fund.11 The GAO has determined that spent fuel 12 one, which isn't decommissioned but just is in safe 13 store, has been sitting there and leaking, doesn't 14 have adequate decommissioning funds at this point.15 MR. BARKLEY: Susan--16 MS. SHAPIRO: And finally,--

17 MR. BARKLEY: Okay.18 MS. SHAPIRO: --we need a comprehensive 19 study on the health effects of Indian Point.20 Currently today, since 2000, the thyroid cancer rates 21 in the areas surrounding Indian Point is 70 percent 22 higher than the rest of the United States.23 I'm a resident of Rockland County.24 Rockland County is directly across from Indian Point.25 We are only allowed, by law, to get our drinking water NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 65 1 from within the county. So our water supplier is 2 looking into desalinating the river. We're downriver 3 from Indian Point and directly across. I am--the 4 people of my county are very concerned.

For another 5 20 years, this plant will be leaking radioactive waste 6 into the river, that we will be drinking and bathing 7 in.8 That's unacceptable and a comprehensive 9 study must be included in the EIS.10 And finally, I want to talk just briefly 11 about renewables.

Renewables must--12 MR. BARKLEY: I'm sorry, Susan. I'm 13 sorry. You've greatly exceeded the--14 MR. RAKOVAN: Only one "finally." Sorry.15 Ma'am, if you could introduce yourself 16 again and let us know who you're with.17 MS. DUKES: My name is Hazel Dukes. I'm 18 president of New York State NAACP branches across this 19 great state. The NAACP is a national preeminent 20 social justice organization working to make our 21 country and our state a better place for all Americas 22 to live and work, and the capacity--I have the unique 23 opportunity and pleasure to work with Entergy on the 24 front line, as if it were New York and in fact across 25 the country.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 66 1 I've been impressed with Entergy and its 2 work, which I've seen firsthand.

I'll point out that 3 I'm not the only one who see or seem to recognize 4 Entergy's significant contribution to the family of 5 New York and other communities across the country.6 The Dow-Jones substantial index, which 7 measures not only exceptional financial results but 8 also environmental, and social responsibilities, 9 Fortune 500 companies have recognized Entergy as the 10 only U.S. utility company to be included in their 11 index for the sixth running year.12 Let me get to the question that you wanted 13 to talk about today. In the discussion of global 14 climate change, and the quality of air that we 15 breathe, some environmentals have come forward to 16 highlight the importance of nuclear power as a free 17 source of electricity.

I know that in black and brown 18 communities across the country, our senior and young 19 people are choking to death on the fumes of pollution 20 and suffer from high rates of asthma and respiratory 21 illness.22 According to the study of the Black 23 Leadership Form, An Air of Injustice, African American 24 and Power Plant Pollution, the air in our communities 25 violate air quality standards.

71 percent of African NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 67 1 Americans live in counties that violate federal air 2 pollution standards, and our death rate from asthma is 3 twice that of other Americans.

38.7 deaths per 4 million population.

5 The study further states global warming 6 could enhance ozone formation, which could, in turn, 7 increase health problems such as asthma attacks. For 8 that reason, social justice organizations such as the 9 NAACP have a special interest in working to combat 10 climate change and reduce air pollution.

11 In that framework, as Congressman Greg 12 Meeks of New York, Senator Crystal ... and others have 13 pointed out, nuclear power must be a part of the clean 14 air and global warming solutions.

We, at New York 15 State Conference, recognize that Indian Point nuclear 16 power plant avoids millions of tons of pollution every 17 year, It provides electricity for our schools, mass 18 transit, hospitals and government institutions.

19 We are proud to be a partner with Entergy, 20 and look forward, and this is why today I come and ask 21 that when you look at all the points that you hear 22 today, that you look at what is realistic for our 23 communities, not just people of color, but for all 24 Americans in relicensing nuclear power.25 MR. BARKLEY: All right. Our next three NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 68 1 speakers are first, Michelle Lee of the Council of 2 Intelligent Energy and Conservation Policy, followed 3 by Sherwood Martinelli of FUSE and the Nuclear Green 4 Butterfly, and finally, Ron Carpino of Entergy.5 MR. RAKOVAN: And I'd like to thank 6 everyone who is sitting, listening to the speakers, 7 for, you know, keeping your side conversations to a 8 minimum and keeping just general noise level down. I 9 think it's great because I think we can really hear 10 what the speaker's trying to say and you guys are 11 really giving the floor to them. So I just wanted to 12 say thank you for that.13 MS. LEE: Michelle Lee, Council on 14 Intelligent Energy and Conservation Policy.15 Upton Sinclair once said it is difficult 16 for a man to understand something when his job and 17 salary depend upon him not understanding it.18 Now I've come in at these meetings, now, 19 for going on six and a half years, and what I see in 20 every single one, there's a very clear divide among 21 people who have a financial self-interest in keeping 22 this plant operating, and those that do not.23 But the real problem is not the financial 24 interest of Entergy employees, and other groups that 25 may depend on its financial largesse.

The real NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 69 1 problem is that the NRC is in bed with them. It is 2 not a real regulator in any sense of the word, and for 3 my money, that is why I left my law practice, 4 representing large corporations, 20 years, so I'm 5 fully aware of how large corporations and the profit 6 motive work.7 But I left that area because of the shock 8 and disgust I felt when I started doing research in 9 this area on the NRC. And let me give you one 10 example, cause we would spend here all day long and 11 well into next week, if I started listing them, but 12 it's a key one and it relates to this proceeding.

13 The NRC has made out of scope, I would say 14 about 70 percent of what any logical person would say 15 should be looked at, and some of these points have 16 been brought up earlier, such as a change in 17 population, the roadway structure, the inability of 18 people to evacuate, the risk of terrorism after 9/11, 19 and so on, and so forth. All these have been gone on 20 and deliberate, ad nauseam.21 The NRC says it will not look at that, 22 those issues, as part of the licensing process because 23 it has considered them at other times during its other 24 year by year review of Indian Point.25 This is a fiction. Unless you define the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 70 1 word "considered" meaning acknowledge a problem, shrug 2 your shoulders, and then proceed to ignore it, the NRC 3 has not considered population, has not considered the 4 risk of terrorism, has not considered the complete 5 operability and ineffectiveness of any emergency plan 6 in an area where you have 300,000 people within 10 7 miles, on a roadway structure that's about 50 years 8 old, that was built at a time when this was 9 essentially an ex-urban community.

10 You have nearly a million people within 20 11 miles. Now if anybody around here remembers 9/11, and 12 what the attack on the World Trade Center did to this 13 area, that's "a walk in the park" compared to what 14 either an attack or even a large accident would be on 15 Indian Point.16 I have been an observer at every single, 17 quote, terrorist drill, since 2001. Okay. Those 18 drills are effectively protocol plans that do not 19 prove anybody would survive anything.

They've never 20 done a real drill. They have never done any kind of 21 evacuation scenario, and they have never even been 22 willing to define what they mean by reasonable 23 assurance, other than by simply regurgitating the 24 different citations of their regulations, and saying 25 we consider it reasonable assurance because in our NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 71 1 opinion it's reasonable.

2 In fact, Nita Lowey tried, some years ago, 3 to get them to define it, and they would not do so.4 I took and I asked, some years back, at another 5 hearing, how would define "reasonable assurance" in a 6 worst case scenario, or even a large accident 7 scenario, in terms of dead, in terms of people who 8 will not live more than a year or two after the 9 accident.

What kind of numbers are you coming up 10 with? And they refused to answer.11 The NRC would not answer that question.12 FEMA would not answer that question.

Indeed, there's, 13 to my knowledge, not been any analysis, and I would 14 request, very strongly, that such an analysis must be 15 done if the NRC is going to have any credibility in 16 saying that this plant should continue operation for 17 another 20 years. Thank you.18 MR. BARKLEY: Sherwood.

I don't know 19 where Sherwood went to.20 MR. RAKOVAN: I think he stepped out. So 21 we might want to go ahead and bring him back up again.22 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Ron Carpino.23 MR. CARPINO: Hello, everyone.

My name is 24 Ron Carpino. I live in Peekskill, about three miles 25 away from here, and I am a licensed senior reactor NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 72 1 operator.

I am licensed to be senior reactor 2 operation to protect the general health and safety of 3 the general public. So what does that mean?4 That means, although I do get paid by 5 Entergy, no denying that, that means I'm held to a 6 higher standard, that if I make an incorrect decision, 7 I can be personally held liable through fines or 8 imprisonment.

So I'd like you to keep that in mind 9 with what else I have to say today.10 The facility is operated safely, be it 11 nuclear safety, radiological safety, personnel safety, 12 and in this case, environmental safety. I've been at 13 Indian Point for about 17 years, and over the years 14 I've heard many, many comments from many individuals, 15 everything from hey, the place can blow up like a 16 nuclear bomb, or as I heard earlier, before, a billion 17 fish are killed annually at Indian Point.18 Generally, what I hear from people are 19 statistics, and you've got to be careful about 20 statistics, cause statistics can be fragmented facts 21 quoted out of context.22 Like, for example, everybody knows that 23 the reactors run with a nuclear fuel. However, the 24 nuclear fuel that the reactors run with do not contain 25 enough fissile material to detonate like a nuclear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 73 1 weapon.2 And also I heard that, you know, when we 3 heard about the billion fish that are killed every 4 year at Indian Point, I can't speak to that number one 5 billion, but I can remind everyone that we heard that 6 that includes fish eggs. So that brings a question.7 Does that mean fishermen kill trillions of fish a year 8 on the Hudson? Just something to keep in mind. Be 9 careful of those statistics.

They are very dangerous.

10 So not only am I cautioning people to use 11 judgment when they hear something, or when they 12 believe they know something.

But I'm also cautioning 13 people to come and investigate it.14 The plant is open for public tours, and 15 I've not only given a couple myself, but we have a 16 communications department that will be more than happy 17 to give a tour. You could even go and talk to a senior 18 reactor operation such as myself. There's only about 19 45 of us at the plant, and we know the facility very, 20 very well.21 You know, you can come and see that the 22 spent fuel pools, for yourself, with your own eyes, 23 are not only quite hardened but definitely resilient.

24 So I'd like to thank you for listening to me at this 25 time, and remind everybody again, please be careful NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 74 1 with statistics and actually investigate the full 2 facts and get the full statement.

I would be more 3 than happy to give a personal tour and answer any 4 questions somebody has. As long as you want to sit 5 down and communicate openly, I'd be more than happy to 6 do so.7 Once again, my name is Ron Carpino and I 8 can be available for any questions, or give you my 9 personal cell phone number, so I can arrange, help 10 arrange a tour for you. Thank you.11 MR. MARTINELLI:

My name's Sherwood 12 Martinelli, vice president of FUSE USA and founder of 13 the Green Nuclear Butterfly.

I'll try to be brief but 14 it's not my strong suit.15 Back when Indian Point was originally 16 licensed to operate, certain problems, or as the NRC 17 calls them, commitments were made as a part of the 18 license agreement.

19 One of those was the IP2 and IP3 reactors 20 would go to a closed cooling system. Some 30 plus 21 years later, even after a decisive court defeat, the 22 current licensees are trying to skip out on that 23 commitment.

Secondly, in the original license 24 agreement, 80 acres of the 235 acre Indian Point site 25 were to be changed into a beautiful woodland park NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 75 1 complete with walking paths that would be used and 2 enjoyed by the surrounding community.

Again, that 3 commitment was not and has not been kept.4 In every license renewal that has been 5 granted so far, the NRC and the licensee, as a part of 6 the license extension agreement, agreed to a set of 7 commitments that the licensee will take care of before 8 the term of the license renewal begins. Problem is, 9 most of those commitments made, usually as a part of 10 the EIS, are reneged upon, never kept.11 There is documented proof of this already 12 happening as early license renewal applicants prepare 13 to file letters to be submitted to the NRC, seeking 14 relief from the very commitments contained in the 15 license renewal that was granted.16 This reason, more than any other, is why 17 it becomes so important to define what is or should be 18 within the scope of the EIS. In 10 CFR 54.4 scope, 19 we are told what is or is not allowed to be in scope.20 However, as the 9th District court case showed, there 21 is a difference of opinion into what is or is not 22 within scope, what is or is not to be considered in 23 the NRC environmental impact statement.

24 The tragic events of 9/11, the ruthless 25 attack of our twin towers, remind each of us that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 76 1 there is a very real chance of a terrorist attack on 2 Indian Point.3 The 9th Circuit Court agrees, ruling that 4 the NRC must include as a part and parcel of the EIS, 5 of the environmental cost associated with a successful 6 terrorist attack on the Indian Point facility.7 Depending on the method of attack, and the 8 components attacked, those environmental costs will 9 vary greatly, and each and every one must be evaluated 10 as a part of the EIS.11 Further, 10 CFR 54 has a very important 12 caveat in deciding what is or is not to be included 13 within scope in a license renewal process, and thus 14 within the EIS. It reads, in 10 CFR 54, the following 15 excerpted sections.16 A. Plant system, structures and 17 components within the scope of this part are: 1.18 safety-related systems, structures and components, 19 which are those relied upon to remain functional 20 during and following design basis events as defined in 21 10 CFR 50.49(b) (1), to ensure the following functions.

22 (i). The integrity of the reactor coolant 23 pressure boundary;24 (ii) The capability to shut down the 25 reactor and maintain it in a safe shutdown condition, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 77 1 or 2 (iii) The capability to prevent or 3 mitigate the consequences of accidents, which could 4 result in potential off-site exposures comparable to 5 those referred to--and then they list a bunch of other 6 sites that I remember you taking a look at.7 The industry, Entergy, NEI, and the NRC, 8 want us, as a community, to believe that increasing 9 leaks in and around the plant, failing equipment, are 10 accepted risks, and that having adequate aging 11 management plans in place is adequate in protecting 12 human health and the environment, in fulfilling the 13 obligations of 10 CFR 54.14 They, simply stated, are lying as section 15 A, part 1, subsection iii shows us. The language is 16 clear. The licensee, in their License Renewal 17 Application, must show the capability to prevent or 18 mitigate the consequences of accidents, which could 19 result in potential off-site exposures.

20 The basic premise relied upon here is 21 ALARA, or As Low As Reasonably Attainable.

Keeping an 22 eye on leaks is not fixing leaks and thus, the 23 licensee fails in this task.24 Further, any component that could 25 reasonable be expected to impinge on the ability of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 78 1 the licensee to conduct this test has to be within 2 scope.3 As one example, I site the water intake 4 system and the water discharge canal. If either of 5 these fails to perform in a significant manner, the 6 licensee's ability to shutdown and maintain safe 7 shutdown are greatly impinged, so the NRC and licensee 8 have erred in omitting said systems/components from 9 cope in the license review in this EIS.10 Further, failures of these systems can 11 lead to a accident that could lead to off-site release 12 of radioactive contaminants, as has occurred in the 13 past at the Indian Point facility, and will occur 14 again if these issues are not adequately addressed in 15 the license review, and more specifically in the EIS.16 The first issue to address is the lie 17 contained in Entergy's LRA, Appendix E, when they 18 state in their supplemental EIS, that the need to 19 review the environmental costs associated with 20 refurbishment is unnecessary because there are no 21 anticipated refurbishment issues in the 20 year period 22 of license renewal.23 Perhaps then, Entergy would like to 24 discuss with the NRC their deliberate omission of the 25 fact they have already ordered and are planning NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 79 1 replacement of the reactor vessel heads for both IP2 2 and IP3.3 It is pointed out here, that the NRC takes 4 deliberate omissions and falsehoods in communications 5 with the NRC by their licensees very seriously.

6 Generally, the EIS should include known 7 significant leak issues and the resultant 8 environmental contamination risk scenarios and costs.9 This includes all three spent fuel pools, underground 10 piping, the main reactor sealant pump seals as well as 11 the entire reactor coolant system and turbine piping 12 systems.13 Knowing that others here tonight will 14 address some of these more commonly known issues of 15 concern, I am going to be more specific.16 1. Boric acid corrosion (BAC) represents 17 a significant aging management issue affecting primary 18 systems at Indian Point, that could lead to release of 19 radioactive contaminants into the environment.

20 Indian Point's aging management plan for 21 this important issue fails to adequately address, as 22 one example valve packing and valve body-to-bonnet 23 gaskets. The fact that IP2 and IP3 are already 24 working on the engineering difficulties involved in a 25 complicated and dangerous reactor vessel head NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 80 1 replacement shows this is a significant issue and that 2 the result of accident release into the environment 3 from reactor vessel head failure must be included in 4 the EIS.5 2. The reactor vessel internals bolting 6 at Indian Point is susceptible to age-related 7 degradation, which could lead to a off-site release of 8 radioactive contaminants.

9 The LRA, and the updated FSAR documents, 10 fail to lay out an adequate aging management plan for 11 inspection and replacement, when necessary reactor 12 vessel internal baffle bolts fail.13 This creates an accident pathway which 14 could lead to off-site release of radioactive 15 contaminants, with the resultant environmental risks 16 ripe for inclusion in the EIS.17 Three--18 MR. BARKLEY: Sherwood, I'm going to have 19 to ask you to wrap up here. You're well past five 20 minutes.21 MR. MARTINELLI:

I'll do my best.22 3. There are serious environmental and 23 safety concerns related to Indian Point's inadequate 24 aging management plans for their fuel rod control 25 system, that can include dropped rod events, unplanned NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 81 1 plant trips, complete equipment failure, shutdowns, 2 and in the case of employees, highly dangerous at-3 power-maintenance attempts.

Such equipment failure 4 creates off-site release scenarios to the environment 5 and public safety issues that must be addressed in the 6 EIS.7 I have twenty more concerns of which I 8 will deliver at this evening's meeting, and I thank 9 you for your time this afternoon.

10 MR. RAKOVAN: Rich, where are we at in 11 terms of speakers?12 MR. BARKLEY: We have seven speakers left.13 MR. RAKOVAN: Excellent.

14 MR. BARKLEY: All right. And that times 15 out pretty well.16 The next three speakers are Dan Durett of 17 the African American Environmental Association, Bill 18 Mooney of the Westchester County Association, and then 19 finally Ulrich Witte, assuming he's here, of FUSE.20 MR. DURETT: I almost feel I should ask 21 you to please stand, stretch. You've been very 22 patient. You can see from my approach to the podium, 23 that I am quite aware that there is a very serious 24 timekeeper here.25 First, I'd like to applaud each of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 82 1 speakers who have stood at this podium. While I may 2 not concur with each speaker's comments, I believe 3 that meetings like this give real meaning to the 4 phrase, we, the people. We, the people, fully engage 5 in decision making that impacts the public.6 I've heard speakers approach you and say 7 "I live" and give a particular neighborhood.

I'll 8 first say that I live in the United States, and that 9 I'm from Brooklyn.10 I have a set of prepared remarks that will 11 go into the record, and if you cannot wait for those 12 remarks, then please, if you have pen and paper in 13 hand, write my name, Dan Durett, D-u-r-e-t-t, and for 14 those with a laptop, put that into Google and you'll 15 have more information about my background.

16 I have stood in many cities and many 17 countries to talk about environmental justice, to talk 18 about conservation, to talk about fish hatcheries, to 19 talk about our forests, lakes and streams.20 But this meeting here today is quite 21 important.

It is important because several speakers 22 have the advantage of speaking sort of towards the end 23 of these kind of meetings, as it gives you a chance to 24 hear the perspectives of others. It also puts the 25 onus on you to sort of change your presentation a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 83 1 little.2 But I'm just really interested in the 3 impact on communities.

As director of the African 4 American Environmental Association's New York office, 5 this organization is dedicated to protecting the 6 environment, enhancing human, animal and plant 7 ecologies, and promoting, yes, the efficient use of 8 natural resources.

9 As an African American in these 10 deliberations today, I proudly stand and ask and 11 request that the license be renewed.12 Several speakers before me have alluded to 13 9/11. I did not know we were here to speak about 9/11 14 but since you gave me that entre, and because someone 15 else cautioned me about using statistics, I'll not use 16 statistics.

17 I will talk about a community in Brooklyn.18 Some of my younger brothers and sisters in the 19 audience may know JZ, and know the building in the 20 Marcy Projects that he speaks of. When I stand before 21 audiences, I say I am the JZ of environmental justice 22 in the United States. I grew up on the first floor.23 He grew up on the sixth floor. My mother still lives 24 in that building, as does the mother of Captain Vernon 25 Richards, who, on his day off, went to the towers, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 84 1 assisting others so that they may breathe one more 2 day, and he gave his life for that cause.3 And yes, I may have to tell you what's in 4 my wallet as one of the speakers before me asked, and 5 let me just say, there's not enough in my wallet.6 There's very little. There's enough gas to get back 7 to Brooklyn and that's about it. So let's put that 8 out on the table.9 I'm asking for the renewal of this license 10 because I am concerned about those communities of 11 color that are downstream, who, if this plant is 12 closed, will see a firing up of power plants that will 13 adversely impact their health and, yes, again, I will 14 stay away from statistics.

15 Bringing the environmental justice 16 perspective into these proceedings is new. We are 17 being engaged at the front end, participating in this 18 forum, and in others, as partners, fully credited, and 19 realizing that we are not participating after the fact 20 of decision making, but we are standing here, voices 21 raised, presence noted, that we intend to be part of 22 "We, the people," when these kind of focusing meetings 23 are taking place.24 You see, because in Brooklyn, and any 25 community that you will want to name, there are always NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 85 1 hard decisions to be made. One of those hard 2 decisions that has to be made in the coming year has 3 been presented, most eloquently, by others who have 4 stood in front of you. What I am asking is that you 5 consider in this process, the impact of the closure on 6 communities in Brooklyn, in Queens, in Jersey, and all 7 the counties of New York.8 And yes, my brother gave me a good 9 opening. Be wary of statistics.

One of the 10 statistics I would like you to know is that with this 11 phone, I reach out to a thousand members of our 12 organization, and with this phone, I must call my 13 mother in one year from now, 80 years old, and if this 14 plant is not renewed, I must tell my mother why it was 15 not renewed and why she will have difficulty 16 breathing.

17 If you are against this licensing, then 18 here, please use my phone. Thank you for your time, 19 your attention, and your patience.20 MR. RAKOVAN: Rich, can you remind us 21 who's next.22 MR. BARKLEY: Bill Mooney.23 MR. RAKOVAN: Bill Mooney. Is there a 24 Bill Mooney here in the audience?

He's not here.25 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Ulrich Witte.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 86 1 MR. RAKOVAN: Let's try Bill again before 2 we end the meeting, just to see if he comes in.3 MR. BARKLEY: While Ulrich is taking the 4 podium, I would like to mention that there's a lot of 5 strongly-held opinions on this subject, pro and con.6 I've asked people to be respectful of those opinions 7 and not harass individual speakers.8 We had an incident out in the backroom, 9 that I bring this up, and just want to remind people 10 to please be respectful of other individuals.

Thank 11 you.12 MR. RAKOVAN: Thanks, Rich.13 MR. WITTE: Good afternoon, everyone.

My 14 name is Ulrich Witte, and I've been in the business 15 for 26 years. I'm an engineer.

I graduated from 16 Berkeley, and straight out of Berkeley, I went to work 17 for a consulting company and found myself literally in 18 the mix of helping nuclear power plants, which at that 19 time I strongly believed in, get out of problems.20 I, at one point, was known in the business 21 as someone you hired to get yourself off the NRC's 22 watch list. Amongst the plants that I've worked for, 23 include things like Millstone, Rancho Seco, before 24 they were shut down. I helped them get relicensed.

25 Oh, gee. I forgot about one. Indian Point Unit 3.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 87 1 James Fitzpatrick.

I helped both plants, while I 2 worked for the New York Power authority, as the 3 manager for configuration management programs, to get 4 off the watch list, which we did back in the nineties.5 But I want to say something.

Ulrich Witte 6 is a German name, and it's like Robert and Bobby. My 7 nickname is Ulie, and if you were in the Navy, Ulie is 8 a problem that just won't go away. So here I am.9 And I'm going to raise two issues. One, 10 I'm going to ask that this goes on the record. That 11 is, just exactly what general design criteria is Unit 12 2 licensed to? Tell us, for the world, what your 13 licensing basis is, because in order for you to renew 14 this plant, to get a so-called extended license, you 15 need to know what you've got.16 Okay. That's question one. And I'm going 17 to repeat it. Why is the NRC superseding to a new 18 license under a trade guidance document, such as NEI 19 95-10, Rev 6, or their own new reg 1800, or new reg 20 1801, Rev 1, instead of 10 CFR 54?21 The latter is law, and the former is 22 guidance from trade organizations.

Why are we doing 23 business like that?24 I want to endorse the AG, Charlie 25 Donaldson's comments.

We need to know this business.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 88 1 It has to be a transparent business, and I ask again, 2 Why is the NRC working towards trade documents instead 3 of law. That's the first question.

Okay.4 And the second question is tell us what 5 your general design basis is.6 That's my short--I think I saved you some 7 time. That's it. Thank you very much.8 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Our next three 9 speakers.

Tom Hallsel [ph], who's a private citizen, 10 Susan Peale, a citizen of Cold Spring, and Bill 11 Maulmeister of Entergy.12 MR. HALLSEL: Good afternoon, everybody.

13 My name is Tom Hallsel. I'm a citizen, an American, 14 living in Croton-on-Hudson, and I have no organization 15 or affiliations.

16 I get a newspaper called the New York 17 Observer in the mail every week, a highly-respected 18 weekly journal, some of you may be familiar with it, 19 and it just so happened that this week they had an 20 editorial about Indian Point, and on the same day I 21 was reading that editorial, I saw the article in the 22 Journal-News about this meeting taking place, and this 23 is my first time atone of these meetings.

I'm happy 24 to be here.25 So I'd like to enter into the record this, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 89 1 what I feel is a very important editorial from the New 2 York Observer, and I think it really represents the 3 feelings of many people who live in this community.

4 The title is, "Indian Point: A Scary 5 Comedy of Errors." Six years after the attacks of 6 September 11th, New York City and its suburbs remain 7 vulnerable-,to an even worse nightmare.

A well-planned 8 assault on the Indian Point nuclear plant in the 9 Hudson Valley, just 35 miles north of midtown 10 Manhattan.

11 It's bad enough that this unnecessary and 12 outdated facility remains open. Even more outrageous 13 is the apparent inability of its owners, the $10 14 billion New Orleans-based Entergy Nuclear Northeast, 15 to meet federal guidelines for the installation of an 16 emergency warning system.17 Again the question must be asked, why is 18 this time bomb still ticking? The latest news from 19 the Hudson Valley is almost comical. An inspector 20 from the federal Nuclear Regulatory Commission found 21 a security guard asleep on the job at 2:00 o'clock in 22 the afternoon.

23 Shortly after this fiasco, the NRC 24 threatened Entergy with fines because Indian Point's 25 warning sirens were not operating properly, despite an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 90 1 order from the Feds to get the system in working 2 order. Thankfully, the NRC refused to grant Entergy 3 an extension.

4 Nobody has to tell the city and its 5 suburbs about the post 9/11 world. We know all about 6 it because that dangerous era was born here. We saw, 7 firsthand, the bloody work of America's enemies.8 Nobody who lived through that day, nobody who has 9 grieved ever since, can deny any possibility, however 10 terrible.

A 2004 study concluded that a terrorist 11 attack on Indian Point could kill 44,000 people 12 immediately, cost the U.S. economy 2.1 trillion, and 13 cause the long-term cancer deaths of half a million 14 people.15 It's true that New York and the nation 16 have not lived through a repeat of 9/11, but only a 17 fool would argue that we are safer today, or that 18 those who wish to harm us have given up.19 Recent arrests of terror suspects in the 20 United Kingdom and Germany remind us that the enemy we 21 face is global, it is active, and it remains intent on 22 causing mass destruction.

23 I'm going to actually paraphrase a little 24 of this, go to the bottom just for the sake of time, 25 because I don't want to go over my limit.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 91 1 In that context, the presence of a nuclear 2 plant so close to Manhattan is intolerable.

It is a 3 threat not only to the city but to some 20 million 4 people in the immediate tristate region. In the awful 5 calculations of our terrorist enemies, an attack on 6 Indian Point would deliver the "most bang for the 7 buck," and don't think for a minute they don't know 8 that plans for the U.S. nuclear plants were found in 9 Al Qaeda caves during the 2001 invasion of 10 Afghanistan.

11 Enough already. Forget Indian Point's 12 facility sirens. We've already received a warning 13 that came on 9/11, when those planes hit the twin 14 towers. One of those planes actually flew over Indian 15 Point on its way downtown.

It's time for Governor 16 Eliot Spitzer and Senator Charles Schumer, and Hillary 17 Clinton, to work together to shut down Indian Point 18 for the good of the city and the country.19 Thank you for giving me this opportunity 20 to read this into the record.21 MR. BARKLEY: Can we have our next 22 speaker, Susan Speel. Peal. Sorry.23 MS. PEALE: Hi. My name is Susan Peale, 24 not Speel, and I'm a resident of Philipstown, New 25 York. I live in Cold Spring, in the village of Cold NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 92 1 Spring, and I got up here to speak about safety.2 I was told by the woman out in the hall 3 that that would be of interest to people, but now, 4 when I'm looking at this and hearing what everybody 5 else has spoken about, it appears the NRC isn't really 6 interested in that aspect.7 So I'd like to speak about it anyway, and 8 I hope that my comments won't be superfluous.

9 Just going over the list for a second, 10 what about your community should the NRC focus on in 11 EIS?12 I'm imagining EIS as environmental impact 13 statement.

EIS. So environment.

To me, in one of 14 the most densely-populated environments in the United 15 States, to not consider the safety of the people, 16 along with the fish, I think is a severe oversight.

17 When it says, What local environmental aspects should 18 the NRC examine?, public sentiment should be one, 19 public health should be another, public stress factor 20 should be another.21 What reasonable alternatives are 22 appropriate for the area? I was told, quite a bit 23 ago, that the area that Indian Point actually 24 services, has nothing to do with Cold Spring, although 25 we hold the burden of the risk within the ten mile NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 93 1 radius. So I think that should be broken out.2 Why should we be held responsible and hold 3 that risk on our shoulders for energy that we're not 4 even getting?5 So when we ask about what are reasonable 6 alternatives appropriate for the area, are we talking 7 about the area of Cold Spring? Or are we talking 8 about the area of the Greater New York Metropolitan 9 Region?10 And then finally, I just want to say--11 actually, there are two finallys.

Somebody else tried 12 to do this.13 But in terms of safety, my husband and I 14 have had a concern ever since a thunderstorm hit Cold 15 Stream and knocked out the lights on Main Street in 16 '90. That would be one of the evacuation routes for 17 this plant. There was chaos. This wasn't a rush 18 hour2.083333e-4 days <br />0.005 hours <br />2.97619e-5 weeks <br />6.849e-6 months <br />. It wasn't--there was no threat behind us they 19 were trying to escape from, and there weren't a lot of 20 people around, and yet it was absolutely chaos.21 And we just imagined, what would this be 22 like, given humanity, who, somebody would drive up on 23 the sidewalk, somebody else would try and overtake 24 them, and, you know, it'd just be--it would be insane.25 That's one thing.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 94 1 The other thing comes as in a post-9/ll 2 world, when we're asked regularly, as citizens, to 3 come forward with what we've seen and what we've 4 heard, that might impact our safety, I want to just 5 recount something I heard on a plane.6 I was flying out from New York to a 7 destination, and this was several years ago, and the 8 man sitting next to me and I struck up a conversation, 9 and in it he told me he was just coming back from 10 Buchanan, New York. He had been a--he was in the 11 nuclear industry, and, you know, it's idle talk. I 12 said what kind of thing do you do?13 And he said I was called out to get a 14 plant back up before they sell it. This was before 15 Entergy bought the plant. And, you know, I said, oh, 16 what kind of things do you look at? And he said, 17 well, there are all these welds, and you have to x-ray 18 every one of the wells, you have to make sure the 19 reactor's working.20 And I said, well, it's good to know you're 21 on the job. I feel a little bit better, knowing that 22 I live in that area.23 And then he went on to say, well, I don't 24 know if I'd feel too safe too soon, because he said he 25 was merely just--merely getting the plant up and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 95 1 running, one particular reactor for a period of hours, 2 so that the sale could go through.3 And there'd been a lot of trouble with 4 this particular reactor, and he just--that was his 5 mission. He wasn't supposed to make sure the plant 6 was safe, only that the reactor would work for the 7 sale, that anything beyond that would be the new 8 owner's responsibility.

9 So what I'd like to say is, in terms of 10 relicensing this plant, I wouldn't like to see it 11 relicensed.

I wouldn't feel it safe with it 12 relicensed until some of these issues are addressed 13 that concern safety of the human population.

Thank 14 you.15 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. Bill Maulmeister of 16 Entergy.17 MR. MAULMEISTER:

I'm Bill Maulmeister.

18 I've been working at the plant for the better part of 19 30 years. I was actually a welding inspector for a 20 lotta years too.21 And it was kind a interesting.

A lotta 22 times you talk to people that used to work at a power 23 plant or something.

Whatever he told you, it wasn't 24 true. That I can guarantee you, because I would go 25 get the boss and it would be over. It doesn't work NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 96 1 that way.2 There's a lotta fear in the public. I 3 bring my children there. I hope when they're grown 4 that they work there. I won't be relying on the plant 5 for a paycheck when its relicensed cause I'll be 6 retired. I don't have a lot of financial gain to make 7 from that. But it's a safe place. I had no qualms 8 with my kids working there.9 That's all i got to say. We're family 10 people. We have a lot to lose too. We know what 11 we're working with, and I hope my kids go to work 12 there too. Thank you.13 MR. BARKLEY: Okay. The final three 14 people I have signed up are Radmilla Miletich of 15 Independent Power Producers of New York, Laura Seitz 16 of CIP, and then finally, we'll recall Bill Mooney who 17 wasn't here earlier.18 MS. MILETICH:

Good afternoon.

Thank you 19 for your attention and your patience.

Some of the 20 points that I wanted to discuss today have been 21 covered by other speakers, so I'll summarize the 22 written statement that I've submitted.

23 My name is Radmilla Miletich and I am the 24 legislative and environmental policy director for the 25 Independent Power Producers of New York. Our NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 97 1 organization, IPPNY, represents the competitive power 2 supply industry in the state, including companies 3 involved in the development of electric generating 4 facilities, the generation, sale and marketing of 5 electric power, and the development of natural gas 6 facilities.

7 Our member companies generate almost 75 8 percent of New York's electricity, using a wide 9 variety of generating technologies and fuels, 10 including hydro, nuclear, wind, coal, oil, natural gas 11 and biomass. We represent the full spectrum of 12 technologies.

13 Our mission is to assist our member 14 companies in becoming the premier providers of 15 electricity in the state.16 IPPNY firmly believes that Indian Point 17 nuclear facility is a positive asset for the state, 18 and we support the continued operation of Indian Point 19 as a critical component of the state's electric energy 20 supply system.21 Indian Point is a baseload power plant 22 that is capable of providing electricity, 2000 23 megawatts, 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a 24 year. It's power you can count on.25 As New York's energy demand continues to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 98 1 grow, so does the importance of facilities such as 2 Indian Point. In providing this source of energy, 3 Indian Point does not contribute to air emissions.

4 Continued reliance on nonemitting generating sources 5 such as nuclear power is an essential component of a 6 responsible strategy to avoid and reduce emissions 7 that lead to climate change.8 Indeed, energy modeling that forms the 9 basis of the regional greenhouse gas initiatives, one 10 of the main projects that I work on at the Independent 11 Power Producers of New York, the modeling for this 12 program assumes that existing, nonemitting facilities 13 such as Indian Point continue to operate.14 Clearly, nuclear energy from Indian Point 15 is essential to holding current emission levels 16 constant and keeping emissions low in the future.17 Specifically, the continued operation of 18 this facility avoids emissions that would result 19 otherwise, and you've heard the numbers and 20 statistics, so I won't repeat them or get into them.21 But essentially, it is the whole scope of emissions, 22 including carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen 23 oxide, carbon monoxide, and volatile organic carbons.24 Reliable electricity is critically 25 important to New York's future, and nuclear energy is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 99 1 reliable, affordable, and it is an important component 2 of our state's diverse fuel mix. Indian Point should 3 continue to play a role in the state's energy plan, 4 now and into the future.5 Without Indian Point's 2000 megawatts, 6 electricity costs would rise, and there would be 7 wholesale price spikes, and there would be impacts on 8 the reliability of your electricity service.9 In addition to the importance of Indian 10 Point as an energy provider for the people of the 11 state, in an increasingly energy-starved area, the 12 area you live in in New York, the facility also is 13 significant for its economic impact and you've heard 14 some examples of that.15 IPPNY believes that not relicensing this 16 facility is simply unworkable, and given the critical 17 electricity needs of the state in this area, and we 18 support the relicensing of the facility.

Thank you 19 for your time and attention.

20 MS. SEITZ: My name is Laura Seitz and I 21 live in Croton-on-Hudson.

I've been involved with the 22 licensing of atomic energy plants since 1970, when the 23 first plants, of these plants were first licensed.24 What is particularly striking is that the 25 issues that were raised then are the very ones that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 100 1 are being raised now. Nothing has been solved or 2 resolved.

We were concerned then about the 3 possibility of evacuation.

We were concerned then 4 about the fact that there was no plan for dealing with 5 the waste that came out of this plant, still an 6 utterly unresolved problem, only it's now become worse 7 because the pools are filled with spent fuel rods.8 We were concerned then with thermal 9 pollution.

We still are concerned about the fish 10 kills in the Hudson.11 And finally, we were concerned then--a 12 major issue was this was untested technology and 13 nobody really had any idea how these plants would 14 weather the years. How would the plant's pipes stand 15 up? Would they become embrittled?

Would things wear 16 out that had never, in fact, ever been tested? From 17 my point of view--oh.

And one more thing. It was 18 exactly the same conversation about the possibility of 19 alternatives.

There weren't supposed to be any.20 If the amount of money that has been 21 devoted to keeping these plants going, well, the rest 22 of the atomic energy business going for the last 30 23 years, had been in any way devoted towards 24 alternatives, I think we'd be very much further along 25 with the possibility of really viable alternatives.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 101 1 But that wasn't done, any more than the evacuation 2 plan was ever changed, the waste problem was solved, 3 thermal pollution was solved, or the embrittlement of 4 the pipes was really addressed up to now.5 I'm a firm believer in Murphy's Law. If 6 something bad can happen, it eventually will, 7 particularly when human beings are involved in it.8 There have been a number of accidents.

So far, they 9 have not caused a catastrophic catastrophe.

10 It strikes me that we are rather lucky 11 that we have "dodged the bullet" for 35 years. I'm 12 very unhappy with the thought of hoping for the best 13 and hoping that for another 30 years we will dodge the 14 bullet, because we just happen to be good folks.15 The same problems remain and they remain 16 unsolved.17 MR. BARKLEY: All right. Again, I'll make 18 one last request for Bill Moody to speak, if he's 19 here.20 I do have a number of people signed up for 21 this evening's session. If any of them are here and 22 want to speak at this time, it may be your 23 opportunity.

We're going to have a very full schedule 24 tonight.25 MR. RAKOVAN: And if there is anyone else NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 102 1 in the crowd who wishes to speak, that hasn't had an 2 opportunity to do so yet, please make yourself known.3 [No response]4 MR. RAKOVAN: Okay. No one seems to be 5 getting my attention.

So i believe that Ms. Rani 6 Framovich is going to say some words to close the 7 meeting today. Rani.8 MS. FRAMOVICH:

Thank you, Lance. I'm 9 Rani Framovich.

I am the chief of the branch of the 10 Nuclear Regulatory Commission Headquarters Office 11 that's responsible for the performance of the license 12 renewal review for Indian Point Units 2 and 3.13 I want to thank you all for coming to this 14 meeting. This is an important part of our 15 environmental review process. It's important to us to 16 come out and talk with members of the public and get 17 their perspective of what it is that's important for 18 us to consider during the environmental review portion 19 of the license renewal review.20 T wanted to respond, briefly, to a couple 21 of things I heard from speakers today, just to kind of 22 clarify some points that were made.23 One point was made that our generic 24 environmental impact statement for license renewal is 25 outdated, and the NRC has not indicated when that will NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 103 1 be updated, and I just wanted to let the folks here 2 know that we're aware that there is a requirement in 3 our regulations that we review the information in the 4 generic environmental impact statement every ten 5 years, and update it, if necessary.

6 And we started that review process back in 7 2003 when we had a scoping process for the generic 8 environmental impact statement in four major cities 9 across the United States. And about a year ago, we 10 really kicked off the analysis in ernest. So I just 11 wanted to make sure that that information is put out 12 there, to make sure that the record is correct.13 Another point that has been made is that 14 what you see reflected on this slide is the extent o 15 the NRC's review, and I can assure you that that is 16 not the case.17 As Mr. Bo Pham indicated when he made his 18 presentation at the beginning of this meeting it's one 19 aspect of the NRC's review.20 There's a safety review that's very 21 comprehensive and rigorous as well, that looks at 22 things like will the aging of the facility be managed 23 to ensure that it will continue to operate safely 24 during the period of extended operation.

25 So I just wanted to reassure members of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 104 1 the public that this is not the extent of the license 2 renewal review.3 With that, I want to again thank you for 4 the comments.

We've gotten some really good, relevant 5 information today on a few areas, a number of areas.6 A few come to mind. Impacts on fish, alternatives 7 that are available to replace Indian Point if that is 8 an option that needs to be considered, and 9 environmental justice issues. These are just a few 10 that I've heard and we really appreciate those 11 comments.

Those are exactly the kind of thing we're 12 looking for to perform our environmental review. So 13 thank you.14 I wanted to remind everyone of a couple of 15 important dates. We will be taking comments on the 16 scope of the environmental review until October 12th.17 We also will be considering contentions 18 for hearing, requests for hearing until November 30th.19 That date was recently extended, in fact, just 20 yesterday.

21 You'll notice on your handout, that on 22 slide, I believe it's twelve, the date indicates 23 October 1st, but that is actually November 30th as of 24 yesterday.

25 One other thing I wanted to remind NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 105 1 everybody, that Lance mentioned at the beginning of 2 the meeting. There are NRC public meeting feedback 3 forms that were handed out at the registration desk.4 If you can think of anything we can do to 5 improve our public meetings, anything we can do 6 differently, anything that's working well, we'd love 7 to hear form you. Please fill out that feedback form.8 You can hand it to a member of the NRC 9 staff. We're all wearing these name tags. Or you can 10 leave it on the registration desk or you can fold it 11 up and put it in the mail. The postage is prepaid.12 And with that, again thank you all for coming. We'll 13 be available after the meeting to answer questions.

14 Thank you very much.15 [Whereupon, at 3:50 p.m, the meeting was 16 adjourned.]

17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of: Name of Proceeding:

Indian Point License Renewal Public Meeting Docket Number: (Not applicable)

Location:

Courtlandt Manor, New York were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.

Peter Holln Official Reporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com