ML15243A415
| ML15243A415 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Indian Point  |
| Issue date: | 05/20/2015 |
| From: | NRC Region 1 |
| To: | |
| Klukan B | |
| References | |
| NRC-1643 | |
| Download: ML15243A415 (127) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Indian Point 2015 Annual Assessment Meeting Docket Number:
(n/a)
Location:
Tarrytown, New York Date:
Wednesday, May, 20, 2015 Work Order No.:
NRC-1643 Pages 1-127 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
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NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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INDIAN POINT 2015 ANNUAL ASSESSMENT MEETING
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WEDNESDAY, MAY 20, 2015
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The meeting convened in the Grand Ballroom of the Westchester Marriott Hotel, 670 White Plains Road, Tarrytown, New York, at 7:00 p.m., Brett Klukan, Facilitator, presiding.
PRESENT:
BRETT KLUKAN, Regional Counsel for Region I DAN DORMAN, Regional Administrator, Region I HO NIEH, Director, Division of Reactor Projects ARTHUR BURRITT, Chief, Projects Branch 2, Division of Reactor Projects
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 T A B L E O F C O N T E N T S 1
2 Opening Remarks - Brett Klukan, Regional Counsel for 3
Region I................................... 3 4
Opening Remarks - Dan Dorman, Regional Administrator 5
for Region I............................... 10 6
Summary of Assessment of the Performance of Indian 7
Point - Arthur Burritt, Chief, Projects Branch 8
2, Division of Reactor Projects............ 11 9
Status of Issues - Ho Nieh, Director, Division of 10 Reactor Projects........................... 13 11 Introduction of Elected Officials and Representatives 12 Present.................................... 16 13 Public Comment Period............................ 26 14 Closing Remarks - Dan Dorman..................... 124 15 Closing Remarks - Brett Klukan................... 127 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 P R O C E E D I N G S 1
7:00 p.m.
2 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: I'm going to be the 3
facilitator for this evening. If we could gather or 4
collect yourselves and get seated, we'll get started.
5 Thank you.
6 (Pause.)
7 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Again, if you could 8
gather just so we can get started?
9 (Pause.)
10 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: All right. Again, 11 welcome to the meeting this evening for the 2015 Indian 12 Point annual assessment meeting.
13 Again, my name is Brett Klukan. Normally 14 by day I'm Region I's regional counsel. However, 15 tonight I'll be serving as the facilitator for the 16 meeting.
17 In a couple of minutes once I've finished 18 with my opening remarks, I'm going to turn it over to 19 the NRC staff you see assembled here. After a short 20 presentation by them, we'll turn it back to you for your 21 questions and comments.
22 For your awareness, the meeting tonight is 23 being recorded. There is an audio recording being 24 produced and a transcript will be generated after the 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 meeting. Both the audio and the transcript will be 1
posted to the NRC website.
2 So, in light of that, I would ask that when 3
it is your turn to speak, that you please identify 4
yourself and do so clearly into the microphone just so 5
we can capture it. I would also ask for the sake of the 6
audio recording that people not speak over each other.
7 In an effort to address some of the concerns 8
raised last year regarding the order in which 9
individuals were called to speak, I've devised an 10 alternative approach to that used last year. An 11 approach, hopefully, that you'll deem to be fair.
12 At the registration table there were three 13 sign-up sheets. One for those who plan to use some of 14 their time to speak against continued operation, one for 15 those who plan to speak or use a portion of their time 16 to speak for continued operation, and one for those who 17 don't plan to express an opinion one way or the other 18 regarding continued operation.
19 What I'll do is I'll rotate through these 20 three lists much in the way that C-SPAN does it. I will 21 call people to the microphones in ascending 22 chronological order.
23 If you'd like to speak and have not already 24 signed up on one of those three lists, the remaining 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 sheets are in the back of the room. Please go do so now.
1 I recognize that there may be some flaws to 2
this approach just as there would be with any approach.
3 But this one after much deliberation, I believe to 4
achieve the maximum value of fairness and transparency.
5 With that said, moving forward if you have 6
comments about how I'm conducting the meeting this 7
evening, I'd love to hear it on one of the feedback forms 8
we have in the back of the room after the meeting 9
tonight.
10 I'm going to call three people at a time 11 just so people have a little time to prepare. I will 12 direct you to one of the two aisle microphones.
13 If you would like to have a microphone 14 brought to you because of a disability, please raise 15 your hand when I call your name and I'll bring a 16 microphone over to you.
17 I would ask that we keep this area in the 18 front row or beyond the front row clear at all times.
19 If you have something you'd like to present to the NRC 20 staff, please either hand it to me, Diane Screnci, if 21 you could raise your hand, and then Rich Barkley over 22 there. So, hand it to one of us and then we'll bring 23 it up here to the panel.
24 In an effort to give as many people an 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 opportunity to speak this evening, please limit 1
yourself to three minutes. Know that I am going to hold 2
everyone to this.
3 A yellow card will be held up when you have 4
one minute left. It will say "Two Minutes" on it. And 5
a red card will be held up at three minutes. At that 6
point, I will politely ask you to conclude.
7 We already have a number of individuals 8
signed up to speak this evening. As such, it's unlikely 9
given in our allotted time we'll be able to get through 10 all of them and not everyone who intended to speak this 11 evening may get an opportunity to do so.
12 Know that the NRC staff will remain after 13 the meeting out in the hallway to have individual 14 discussions with members of the public.
15 Also at the registration table there are 16 comment cards. Any comment card submitted to the NRC 17 this evening will be attached as an addendum to the 18 meeting transcript we upload to the website.
19 Based on the comment we received in the wake 20 of last year's meeting and the response to some more 21 recent NRC meetings, I think it makes sense to lay out 22 some ground rules regarding how the meeting will be 23 conducted this evening.
24 First off, I recognize that many of you have 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 very strong -- strongly-held opinions concerning the 1
matters likely to be discussed this evening. I ask you 2
nonetheless to please adhere to civil decorum, that you 3
respect each other just as we will respect what you have 4
to say. So, please don't disrupt each other.
5 And just as you wouldn't want to be 6
interrupted during your three minutes at the 7
microphone, please respect the speaking time of others 8
including when the NRC staff is responding to questions.
9 You have absolutely every right to disagree 10 with what others may say here this evening. Moreover, 11 you have every right to voice that disagreement during 12 your time at the microphone.
13 I ask that we -- however, I implore you to 14 be civil to each other. And I ask that we all refrain 15 from invectives and personal derogatory remarks.
16 Regarding generally disruptive behavior, 17 interrupting others, using inappropriate language 18 directed at other individuals, we're going to play by 19 a three strikes rule. The first two strikes are verbal 20 warnings. The third one I will ask you to leave the 21 meeting.
22 Regarding threatening behavior, let me be 23 as plain as possible as to the next point. Making any 24 threatening gesture or statement to anyone in the room 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 will be cause for immediate ejection from this meeting 1
tonight. No warnings given.
2 If you feel that you've been threatened, 3
please let me know, or please tell one of the NRC 4
security -- Chris, the bearded individual in the back 5
of the room, he's raising his hand, please tell him so 6
that we can deal with the situation.
7 Before I conclude, a few minor housekeeping 8
matters. The bathrooms are directly out the exits.
9 While cameras are permitted, please try not to obstruct 10 the view of others and I would ask you to be reasonable 11 in your use of flash. Not that you can't use it. Just 12 be reasonable.
13 And if you would be so kind to please 14 silence your cell phones at this point, and I'm going 15 to do the same, because I have forgotten to do that as 16 well.
17 All right. With that said, let me 18 introduce the NRC staff here. Dan Dorman seated in the 19 middle, is the regional administrator for Region I. He 20 has been in that position since 2014. Dan has 34 years 21 of nuclear experience, including nearly ten years in the 22 Navy and over 24 years with the NRC.
23 He has served as a deputy office director 24 in both the Nuclear Materials and Operating Reactor 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Programs in the NRC headquarters office, and was a 1
member of the NRC's near-term task force on the lessons 2
learned from the Fukushima accident.
3 Ho Nieh seated to -- who is raising his 4
hand, Ho is the director for Region I's Division of 5
Reactor Projects. Ho has 23 years of nuclear safety 6
experience. 18 with the NRC.
7 In his current position, he is responsible 8
for the NRC resident inspectors stationed at operating 9
reactors in the Northeastern United States. In fact, 10 Ho actually started his NRC career in Region I as a 11 resident inspector before taking on various 12 headquarters' management positions. Prior to the NRC, 13 Ho was in operations at a US Naval nuclear power plant.
14 And finally, but not least, Art Burritt.
15 Art is the branch chief for Branch 2 in Region I's 16 Division of Reactor Projects. Branch 2 includes 17 oversight of Indian Point Units 2 and 3.
18 Art has 38 years of nuclear experience, 19 including 23 with the NRC. Prior to joining the NRC, 20 he was a licensed senior reactor operator and worked for 21 three nuclear utilities as a plant operator and trainer 22 after serving in the Navy's nuclear program.
23 With that, let me thank you again and I will 24 turn it over to Dan Dorman for the NRC's opening 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 presentation. Thank you.
1 (Applause.)
2 MR. DORMAN: Thank you, Brett. I just 3
have some very brief opening remarks. Our primary 4
purpose for this meeting is to listen. And we would 5
like to hear from as many of you as possible. And so, 6
we're going to have some very brief opening remarks.
7 I've also asked the staff as it comes time 8
during the question and answers, for us to either answer 9
questions or respond to comments, to keep our responses 10 as brief as possible so that we can get as many of you 11 to the microphone as possible.
12 With that, Art will very briefly summarize 13 our assessment of the performance of Indian Point over 14 the past year. And then Ho will very briefly touch on 15 the status of several issues that we know are of great 16 interest. And I'm sure we'll get a number of questions 17 and comments on the issues that he's going to touch on.
18 And then we'll give the floor back to Brett 19 and we'll get right into the questions and comments.
20 So, with that, thank you for coming out 21 tonight and I'll turn it over to Art.
22 MR. BURRITT: Thank you, Dan. I'd like to 23 start off with a summary of what we found through our 24 inspection program in 2014.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Overall we determined that Indian Point was 1
operated safely consistent with its license conditions.
2 This is based on over 8200 hours0.0949 days <br />2.278 hours <br />0.0136 weeks <br />0.00312 months <br /> of 3
inspection activities that were focused on operation 4
and maintenance of Indian Point.
5 Our three full-time resident inspectors 6
were in the control room daily observing plant 7
operations, as well as maintenance and testing of safety 8
systems. They also checked other areas such as 9
security, emergency planning and radiation safety.
10 We also have specialist inspectors out of 11 our regional office that did many weeks of detailed 12 reviews focused on areas such as emergency 13 preparedness, radiation safety, operated licensing and 14 security.
15 While Entergy operated the plant safely, we 16 did identify deficiencies in their performance. These 17 issues were assessed by our inspectors and determined 18 to be of very low safety significance.
19 While these deficiencies were promptly 20 corrected, our inspectors also verified the correction 21 of those issues.
22 Our assessment also included review of 23 performance indicators. These are measures that 24 evaluate things like the number of unplanned shutdowns.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Our inspectors validated the data. And 1
after reviewing the data, we determined there was no 2
additional oversight required for Indian Point.
3 Additionally, in 2014 Indian Point 4
conducted an emergency exercise. This was evaluated by 5
both NRC and FEMA.
6 There were no significant concerns 7
identified during that exercise. It was a hostile 8
action-based drill that was focused on practicing and 9
evaluating the coordination and communication between 10 the site staff, as well as local, State and Federal law 11 enforcement officials during a security event.
12 The NRC during this event also practiced 13 its emergency response roles, including activating our 14 Incident Response Center and dispatching a site team.
15 So, again, Indian Point was operated safely 16 and continues to operate safely and will conduct our 17 comprehensive baseline inspection program going 18 forward.
19 Now, I'd like to turn it over to Ho for some 20 additional comments on other areas of safety.
21 MR. NIEH: Okay. Thank you, Art.
22 I'd like to give you an overview of three 23 emerging issues where the NRC is taking action to ensure 24 safety at Indian Point.
25
14 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 First, many of you are aware of the recent 1
failure of a transformer at Unit 3. Although the plant 2
was safely shut down, the NRC is looking into an issue 3
where firewater made its way unexpectedly into an 4
electrical switchgear room.
5 The fire water had no affect on that 6
equipment in the room, but, again, it was an unexpected 7
condition. So, we sent a special inspection team out 8
to the site to find out how the water got into that room, 9
to understand the potential effects it could have on 10 that equipment if there had been a larger amount of 11 water, and also to find out what Entergy is doing to fix 12 the problem.
13 The team arrived onsite yesterday and you 14 should be able to expect to see the results of their 15 inspection in a report that will be issued later this 16 summer.
17 Second, after the Fukushima accident, the 18 NRC issued several new requirements to nuclear power 19 plants to enhance their capability to withstand the 20 effects of severe natural events.
21 With respect to earthquakes and floods, the 22 NRC conducted inspections that were independent from 23 Entergy's walkdowns of their facility to confirm that 24 the plant systems are sufficiently protected for the 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 earthquakes and floods to which it was originally 1
licensed for.
2 In light of new information that shows the 3
potential for earthquakes and floods that could be 4
larger than previously estimated, the NRC has required 5
Entergy to assess that new information and to make 6
modifications to their plant as necessary to ensure that 7
adequate protections are available at the facility.
8 And it is our understanding that Entergy is on track and 9
meeting the NRC's schedule in this area.
10 To further enhance the ability of the plant 11 to mitigate the effects of a severe event, NRC required 12 more portable electric and cooling water supplies to be 13 available. This is the so-called FLEX strategy that is 14 being implemented by the US nuclear industry.
15 Entergy has purchased this portable 16 equipment and will be storing it in a hardened bunker 17 onsite. And if needed, FLEX equipment from other parts 18 of the country can be airlifted to the site if necessary.
19 The third issue I'd like to mention is that 20 many of you are aware that the Federal Energy Regulatory 21 Commission recently approved plans for a new natural gas 22 pipeline running near the Indian Point facility.
23 Because this new pipeline might impact the 24 plant, the NRC independently reviewed Entergy's 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 assessment of the potential hazard and the safety 1
features to protect against a pipe break.
2 The NRC found that Entergy appropriately 3
determined that the new pipeline would not introduce 4
significant additional risk to the safe operation of 5
Indian Point. And that pipeline would not require 6
prior NRC approval.
7 Our review of this matter included 8
independent calculations by NRC experts who used the 9
best available modeling tools and regulatory guidance 10 to assess the effects of a pipeline rupture.
11 And this concludes my portion of the NRC's 12 remarks and I'd like now to turn it back over to Dan 13 Dorman.
14 (Applause.)
15 MR. DORMAN: We'll turn it back to Brett 16 and we'll proceed with the rest of the meeting. Thanks.
17 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you, Dan.
18 Thank you.
19 So, before we open it up to questions and 20 comments by member of the public, I'd like to take this 21 opportunity to introduce elected officials.
22 We have representatives tonight in the 23 audience from the offices of Senator Gillibrand.
24 (Applause.)
25
17 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Congresswoman Lowey.
1 (Applause.)
2 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: And Congressman 3
Engel.
4 (Applause.)
5 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: We also have other 6
local and State elected officials, representatives who 7
would like to introduce themselves tonight.
8 So, could I have Mr. Tkacs please come to 9
the microphone to introduce himself. T-K-A-C-S.
10 Okay. You're with the Town of Cortlandt?
11 MR. TKACS: Yes, Town of Cortlandt 12 representing town supervisor Linda Puglisi.
13 (Applause.)
14 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. And then 15 I have a Suzannah Glidden. And you'd like to make a 16 prepared statement? If you could just go to the 17 microphone.
18 (Applause.)
19 MS. GLIDDEN: Thank you. Suzannah 20 Glidden to read our New York State Assemblywoman Sandy 21 Galef's statement.
22 This Saturday's transformer fire at the 23 Indian Point Energy Center is a reminder that we must 24 be extremely vigilant with safety protections and 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 oversight at this facility.
1 Over the past few months I have actively 2
opposed the siting of the 42-inch diameter 3
high-pressure AIM gas pipeline near the nuclear power 4
plant.
5 I am well aware that there are numerous 6
safety protections in place at Indian Point with backups 7
upon backups. In fact, transformer fires do happen and 8
the plant did take appropriate actions to deal with this 9
one.
10 Nevertheless, to add yet another 11 high-powered energy distribution system into the 12 equation really seems to be tempting fate. Just 13 because it is expedient to make this the chosen path for 14 the pipeline does not make it wise.
15 This particular emergency was contained.
16 But even with a relatively minor event such as this in 17 the scope of Indian Point, unexpected circumstances can 18 lead to unexpected reactions.
19 Governor Cuomo stated about the accident at 20 Indian Point, anything that happens at this plant 21 obviously raises concerns. A transformer fire in and 22 of itself was not dangerous, but the fear is always that 23 one situation is going to trigger another. A 24 confluence of high-energy power generation and 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 distribution at this location is literally asking for 1
trouble.
2 This is not the only option. And, 3
therefore, should not be the chosen option for th AIM 4
gas pipeline siting. I urge New York State to seek a 5
stay from the Federal government on the approval to site 6
a pipeline at this locale.
7 We must conduct an independent risk 8
analysis using research from past gas line explosions 9
to determine if there really is no additional threat to 10 public safety with this new high-powered pipeline at 11 this location. The safety of our public is at stake.
12 Thank you.
13 (Applause.)
14 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Next we'll hear from 15 Michelle McCarthy, if she could please come to one of 16 the microphones. Thank you.
17 MS. MCCARTHY: I'm the communications 18 director for Assemblymember Ellen Jaffee representing 19 the 97th assembly district in Rockland County in New 20 York State.
21 For several years I have introduced, and 22 the New York State Assembly has passed, resolutions to 23 oppose the relicensing of Indian Point Plants 1 and 2 24 unless the plant undergoes a true outside independent 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 safety assessment, that emergency experts from outside 1
the NRC agree on an evacuation plan that could work and; 2
three, that all criteria in the licensing of new 3
reactors are considered and applied to those reactors 4
such as Indian Point seeking a license extension.
5 Even Governor Andrew Cuomo has said that, 6
quote, if the risk of an accident at Indian Point is too 7
high, the plant should not be in operation.
8 (Applause.)
9 MS. McCARTHY: I understand the role that 10 nuclear power plays and I am not here this evening to 11 debate it. However, this is the wrong plant at the 12 wrong site for our area.
13 Each and every one of the thousands of 14 people I represent is at risk in the event of an 15 accident.
16 The most recent transformer explosion and 17 fire, the number one risk to nuclear reactors, further 18 illustrates the need for a thorough, independent 19 investigation and, at the very least, a study of this 20 plant.
21 I have introduced also a resolution in the 22 Assembly for that independent study. It did not pass 23 the New York State Senate.
24 I am glad to hear that the Federal Nuclear 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Regulatory Commission announced that it is sending a 1
team here to investigate the most recent failure.
2 Indian Point needs to be put under the 3
microscope by Federal investigators, not treated with 4
kid gloves.
5 Protecting the public requires looking at 6
every possible angle for risk. And unless the NRC 7
starts doing so with a thorough, independent safety 8
review, Indian Point will not have earned the right to 9
continue operating. Thank you.
10 (Applause.)
11 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Thank 12 you.
13 I think there are some other elected 14 officials or representatives are up who would like to 15 introduce themselves. Please come to the microphone.
16 MR. FEINER: My name is Paul Feiner. I'm 17 the Greenburgh town supervisor.
18 (Applause.)
19 MR. FEINER: And a few weeks ago I attended 20 a ceremony and met some Holocaust survivors. And there 21 was one woman who spoke to me and she said that her family 22 and friends when they were in Germany during World War 23 II were in denial. And that's what I feel we are right 24 now.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 (Applause.)
1 MR. FEINER: Because we think it's not 2
going to happen, but that's what the German Jews thought 3
was going to happen in Germany before World War II.
4 Many of my constituents and myself are 5
scared, because we believe that this area is in danger.
6 And there's many, many warning signals.
7 I believe that the Indian Point power plant 8
should be decommissioned. I do not believe that 9
Entergy implemented an effective maintenance program.
10 And I feel very strongly that they should be shut down.
11 The Riverkeeper pointed out that water from 12 an unknown source was found in the electrical supply 13 rooms at Indian Point after the transformer failure 14 occurred.
15 Is Entergy's fire protection program 16 inadequate? The NRC previously granted Indian Point 17 dozens of exemptions from critical fire safety 18 requirements, including one that reduced the 19 requirement that insulation from fire last one hour to 20 just 24 minutes.
21 FERC recently approved the expansion of two 22 high-pressured natural gas pipelines from 36 inches to 23 42 inches about 105 feet from Indian Point's vital 24 structures, which is a major safety concern. And we've 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 had in this area some horrible, fatal tragedies from gas 1
explosions.
2 There's two earthquake fault lines that 3
cross just north of Indian Point. The NRC revised its 4
estimates of earthquake risk in 2010 concluding that 5
Indian Point is the most likely nuke plant in the nation 6
to experience core damage due to an earthquake.
7 The NRC has relaxed requirements for 8
insulation on electrical cables controlling the 9
reactors, reducing inspection requirements on rusting 10 containment domes and leaking spent fuel pools.
11 And New York City and Greenburgh's drinking 12 water reservoir lies 15 miles from Indian Point. Nine 13 million people depend on the safety of the water supply 14 every day.
15 Finally, evacuation plans are totally 16 inadequate. I've been town supervisor of Greenburgh 17 for 24 years. I have no idea what I'd do if there'd be 18 an evacuation or an Indian Point meltdown. And I don't 19 think anybody in Westchester County really would know 20 for certain where they would go.
21 Would I go north, south, east or west? I 22 have no clue. Thank you.
23 (Applause.)
24 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Any 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 other elected officials who would like to --
1 MR. PATEL: Vishnu Patel. I am scientist, 2
retired scientist from IBM, and I am a councilman. And 3
I have visited nuclear power plant when I was at IBM with 4
a whole bunch of world-class scientists. My issue is 5
the 42-inch gas line.
6 If the transformer burns and they have 7
trouble, if the gas line explode at the same time the 8
transformer may be burned, too, and there's double 9
trouble.
10 So, I don't want the gas line to spit or 11 vomit their waste into water, air and the ground and, 12 hence, into the (inaudible).
13 It is the water we use from reservoirs.
14 More than nine, 10 million people around New York depend 15 on that.
16 If there was no drinking water in New York, 17 there will not be no New York. So, protect, preserve 18 what we have. Use less and save more. We don't need 19 a very big gas line, because those gas lines have miles 20 and miles.
21 They are exporting very large quantity of 22 gas that they're turning on when the prices go up. And 23 they're turning off when prices go down.
24 We don't need a big one to destroy the 25
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 environment. Keep the New York State and make the 1
United States number one. Use less and save more.
2 (Applause.)
3 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Any 4
other representatives of our elected officials or 5
elected officials themselves?
6 MS. HABER: My name is Joy Haber and I am 7
reading a brief statement prepared by Westchester 8
County legislature MaryJane Shimsky representing the 9
12th district.
10 Good evening.
I would like to 11 specifically draw attention to the Nuclear Regulatory 12 Commission's March 9, 2015 decision CLI-15-06, which 13 held that aging management reviews should not be 14 required for the transformers at Indian Point.
15 In that decision, the NRC reversed the 2013 16 determination of the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 17 in decision LBP-13-13, which resolved in favor of New 18 York State's contention that aging management review of 19 the transformer should be required.
20 The transformer failure on Saturday, May 21 9th, is the most recent example of why an aging 22 management review of the transformers is needed.
23 With testing on this transformer performed 24 as recently as March of this year, it is clear that the 25
26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 regular testing programs in the maintenance rule are not 1
adequate to detect problems that may very well lead to 2
abrupt failure.
3 This point was emphasized by the New York 4
expert witness in testimony to the Atomic Safety and 5
Licensing Board.
6 The ASLB was correct to recognize this 7
point and to require aging management review for the 8
transformers.
9 I urge the NRC to reconsider its March 2015 10 decision to be consistent with the ASLB and to require 11 aging management review for the transformers at Indian 12 Point Energy Center. Thank you.
13 (Applause.)
14 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Any 15 other elected officials or representatives that are up?
16 (No other elected officials or 17 representatives.)
18 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. Would the NRC 19 like to make any comments at this point, or --
20 MR. DORMAN: I think we're going to get a 21 lot of comments on a lot of these issues. So, let's keep 22 it going here.
23 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. So, again, 24 what I'm going to do is call three people up at a time 25
27 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 to the aisle microphones.
1 Again, please keep your comments to under 2
three minutes so we can maximize the number of people 3
who get to speak this evening.
4 And, again, I implore you to be respectful 5
to each other and, please, not interrupt each other not 6
only as a courtesy to each other, but also for the sake 7
of the transcript.
8 Mr. Gyetko will be first, Ms. Tsou, 9
T-S-O-U, will be next followed by Bernadette Kelly.
10 MR. GYETKO: Gentlemen of the NRC Board, 11 thank you for this opportunity to address the Board.
12 And in view of the many who wish to speak, I'll be brief.
13 One, Spectra Energy's plan to put a 14 pipeline within 105 feet of spent fuel rods is insane 15 and can only be motivated not by need, but by greed. I 16 urge you to reject it for the following reasons:
17 To even consider putting a 42-inch 18 high-pressure gas line anywhere near the juncture of two 19 fault lines; namely the Ramapo and the Stamford 20 earthquake faults, both of them dangerously close to 21 Indian Point 3, is literally playing with fire.
22 I've been a resident of Westchester County 23 since 1984. And back in '85, my wife and I were living 24 in Elmsford and there was a seismic event registering 25
28 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 a surprisingly strong 4.1 in the Ramapo fault, the one 1
closest to the reactor.
2 They felt this quake clear out to Suffolk 3
County in Long Island. It rolled my wife and me out of 4
our bed.
5 Earthquakes happen. They've been known to 6
rupture gas lines catastrophically. It happened in LA, 7
it happened in San Francisco and it can happen here.
8 Additionally, one of your own NRC studies 9
titled "Calculation of Reactor Accident Consequences,"
10 or CRAC II, updated for Indian Point 3, which recently 11 had yet another transformer fire, found that in the 12 event of an accident with breach of nuclear materials, 13 either the core or spent nuclear fuel containers, the 14 report estimates 50,000 peak early fatalities, 167,000 15 peak early injuries and tens of thousands of cancer 16 deaths and a cost in property damage of $314 billion.
17 It is psychotic to put a high-pressure gas 18 line rated at 850 pounds per square inch anywhere near 19 this place.
20 It's like falling asleep on railroad 21 tracks. You could do it 99 times with no problem, but 22 that 100th time will be the cruncher quite literally.
23 Roll the dice all you want, but eventually 24 you'll roll snake eyes. The plant is situated in one 25
29 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 of the most dense population areas in the world home to 1
an estimated 20 million people.
2 What is at stake is not only New York City 3
with its many irreplaceable historic and cultural 4
sites, but the home of Wall Street, the financial center 5
if not only the United States, but arguably the entire 6
world.
7 You are essentially willing to put the 8
lives of these 20 million people in jeopardy, because 9
based on your rosy predictions you're willing to roll 10 the dice.
11 You're not only rolling dice with someone 12 else's money. You're not even standing in the casino.
13 Thank you, sirs.
14 (Applause.)
15 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Please 16 go ahead and, as a reminder, please introduce yourself 17 just so we get a correct pronunciation of your name as 18 well, because I'm probably not doing it, before you give 19 your remarks.
20 MR. GYETKO: Can I do it know then? It's 21 Steven Gyetko, G-Y-E-T-K-O. And I'm with New Yorkers 22 Against Fracking. Thank you very much.
23 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
24 (Applause.)
25
30 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MS. TSOU: Good evening. My name is Ling 1
Tsou, L-I-N-G. And my last name, Tsou, is spelled 2
T-S-O-U. I'm a resident of New York City and a 3
cofounder of United for Action.
4 Indian Point should be shut down 5
immediately and decommissioned carefully and 6
responsibly.
7 Approximately 20 million people live or 8
work within a 50-mile radius of Indian Point, including 9
nine million people in New York City, which is only about 10 30 miles south of Indian Point.
11 Indian Point sits on top of fault lines and 12 possible earthquake of up to seven on the Richter scale.
13 And this is possible, and is expected.
14 What would happen to all the unsafely 15 stored spent fuel at Indian Point, which is 16 deteriorating and leaking as it is?
17 I was visiting Tokyo on the day when the 18 nuclear meltdown occurred after earthquake and tsunami 19 hit Fukushima.
20 I recall vividly the terrible tremor of the 21 earthquake in Tokyo, which is about 150 miles south of 22 Fukushima.
23 I can't help but think what would happen to 24 all of us living in the surrounding area of Indian Point 25
31 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 in case of an emergency at Indian Point. It is 1
impossible to evacuate such a large population from such 2
an area.
3 What would happen to the ensuing pain and 4
ill health suffered by such a large population and their 5
children and grandchildren?
6 Who will pay for all the cleanup and the 7
healthcare costs of the people who got sick as a result?
8 How could any company or government agency 9
in good conscience put 20 million lives at such a risk?
10 To add insult to injury, FERC has approved 11 the construction by Spectra of Algonquin pipeline, 12 which is a new high-pressure and potentially explosive 13 natural gas pipeline approximately 1500 feet from 14 Indian Point Reactors 2 and 3, and only several hundred 15 feet from the spent fuel rods.
16 New York State DEC also has approved a water 17 permit earlier this month. This is totally 18 irresponsible.
19 How can our government agencies consider 20 profits by oil and gas companies more important than the 21 health and safety of 20 million people? Will we only 22 wake up after a disaster happens?
23 The irony is that New York City does not 24 even need Indian Point. Indian Point only provides 25
32 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 about five percent of New York City's electricity, not 1
the 20 percent to 25 percent touted by the company.
2 If Indian Point is shut down, New York City 3
can easily make up this five percent by conservation, 4
energy efficiency or supply from renewable energy 5
sources as solar and wind.
6 (Applause.)
7 MS. TSOU: We urge you not to renew the 8
operating license for Indian Point, and shut down Indian 9
Point immediately. Thank you.
10 (Applause.)
11 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Next up 12 is Ms. Kelly followed by Mr. Eric Eller. And then Susan 13 Shapiro (phonetic).
14 MS. KELLY: Good evening. My name is 15 Bernadette Kelly.
I'm the international 16 representative assigned to the New York region and home 17 to Teamsters Local 456 here in Elmsford, New York. I'm 18 proud to be here representing our 3500 members --
19 (Applause.)
20 MS. KELLY: -- and with our brothers and 21 sisters from the labor movement in Westchester County.
22 Welcome.
23 Indian Point is a safe place to work for our 24 members and the backbone of Westchester's economy. The 25
33 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 facility's commitment to organized labor and to its 1
employees has been long documented providing good, 2
stable middle-class jobs.
3 Plant personnel receive more job training 4
than those of any other industry, as it should be.
5 Employees also undergo extensive training every few 6
weeks and are tested regularly on their safety skills.
7 As the recent events show us, they are prepared for any 8
situation that occurs.
9 Teamster members know that safety is the 10 highest priority at Indian Point. And if we had any 11 doubt about that, we would simply not work there, let 12 alone live near it, represent those members, as many of 13 us do, with our families.
14 Since Entergy took over from the power 15 authority more than ten years ago, they have also 16 maintained a
unionized workforce with their 17 contractors. Many of which are represented by our 18 local union.
19 Indian Point's vital role in improving the 20 environment was made apparent in Mayor de Blasio's 21 recently issued OneNYC plan that the International 22 Brotherhood of Teamsters was a part of.
23 The plant generates 2,000 megawatts of 24 electricity each day and supplies 25 percent of the 25
34 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 power used downstate virtually carbon-free. Indian 1
Point is vital to our state and needs to be continually 2
supported.
3 This is a crucial time for Indian Point and 4
for the region. The Teamsters played an integral and 5
vital role in developing the OneNYC plan and we will 6
continue to be part of the fabric that provides safe, 7
efficient energy to New Yorkers at Indian Point.
8 Thank you very much.
9 (Applause.)
10 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Again, we'll have Mr.
11 Eric Eller, then followed by Ms. Susan Shapiro, and then 12 Mr. Al Liberatore. Thank you.
13 MR. ELLER: My name is Eric Eller and I am 14 president of the African-American Men of Westchester, 15 a group of accomplished men of African-American descent 16 who are corporate leaders, doctors, judges, public 17 figures and, most importantly, are health conscious and 18 family orientated.
19 The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission has 20 exhaustively studied plant operations at Indian Point 21 awarding the plant its highest safety rating, green, 22 numerous times over the past decade, and NRC staff 23 recommended license renewal.
24 The owner, Entergy, invested more than a 25
35 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 billion in upgrades, hardened communications and 1
strengthened the security making the site a world-class 2
facility.
3 We strongly believe that Indian Point's 4
continued operation is imperative to reducing reliance 5
on fossil fuel generators, which is equally -- which are 6
unequally located in environmental justice areas.
7 If Indian Point shuts down, there will be 8
significant pressure to replace this carbon-free 9
facility with power from fossil fuel plants. The 10 majority of which are located in African-American and 11 other minority communities in the New York metropolitan 12 area.
13 In fact, studies commissioned by the New 14 York City Department of Environmental Protection found 15 that Indian Point's closure would cause carbon 16 emissions to increase by more than 15 percent, and 17 noxious oxide emissions to increase by seven, eight 18 percent in both the city and state.
19 The New York City Department of 20 Environmental Protection reports that air pollution in 21 New York City is a significant environmental threat 22 which contributes to an estimated six percent in annual 23 deaths.
24 The New York City Controller added that the 25
36 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 cost to treat asthma has increased in recent years 1
eclipsing 1.4 billion annually and impacting minority 2
communities most.
3 Understanding the absence of Indian Point 4
threatens the health and welfare of vulnerable 5
populations particularly in the minority community.
6 We oppose political objections designed to undermine 7
sound energy policies.
8 As such, it's important for the NRC to 9
continue its transparent and effective efforts to 10 convey to the public that their rigorous inspection 11 process has its own reputation of being the gold 12 standard for nuclear regulatory worldwide, and that 13 Indian Point has completed the review process and has 14 earned the highest safety rating affirming what we 15 already know. Indian Point is safe, secure and should 16 operate another 20 years or more. Thank you.
17 (Applause.)
18 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: And, again, we'll 19 have Ms. Shapiro, followed by Mr. Al Liberatore and then 20 Paul Blanch -- Mr. Paul Blanch.
21 MS. SHAPIRO: As I'm sure you're well 22 aware, fire is the number one risk to nuclear plants, 23 nuclear reactors. Here at Indian Point, this is our 24 third transformer fire since 2007.
25
37 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 In 2009, the NRC said there was 198 of the 1
275 fire zones lacked automatic fire protection, 2
suppression.
3 I want to know how has that been repaired?
4 Are we covered for fire protection? Our community is 5
at risk. We're nervous when we see this.
6 When we see a fire, when we hear the sirens 7
going off, we don't have any confidence that Entergy can 8
run this plant safely.
9 Entergy, I'm asking you a question. Do we 10 need an act of Congress to make the NRC uphold the Atomic 11 Energy Act?
12 It took an act of Congress to get us sirens.
13 We didn't even have sirens until Congress demanded it.
14 And then it took four years for Entergy to do it because 15 of the briny atmosphere here.
16 Now, we have transformers that are blowing 17 up, and you don't know why. Entergy says, we don't know 18 why. We don't know how to fix it.
19 How can we trust they can run a nuclear 20 plant when they can't manage transformers and sirens?
21 So, do we need an act of Congress to make you do your 22 job?
23 Secondly, I would like to ask you to give 24 us an accounting. I'd like an audit of how much money 25
38 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 the NRC spent to fight New York State's request to have 1
-- and the ASLB's request to not include aging 2
transformer management in the relicensing proceeding.
3 I'd also like to know how much money you 4
spent fighting and litigating against us, our request 5
and our demand that you fix the defective fire wrap at 6
Indian Point so that we don't have 24 minutes between 7
us and a meltdown. How much money have you spent on that 8
when it would cost $500,000 to fix?
9 We're sick and tired. Since 2007 that's 10 been going on. You don't care about the public's 11 safety.
12 And with regard to this question on -- well, 13 two other issues. On monitoring, I read the 2012 14 monitoring report, and I read this report, the recent 15 report now, and there's defective monitoring going on.
16 In 2012, for many months there was no 17 monitoring at all. This year it seems there's still 18 that problem.
19 When are you going to fix the monitoring?
20 And we want it publicly available 24/7 realtime point 21 source monitoring.
22 And we also want to know how much CO2 and 23 radioactive -- radioactive CO2 and methane is being 24 released from the plant every day. It's a fallacy that 25
39 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 nuclear is carbon-free. It produces carbon. It makes 1
new carbon that never existed on the planet. Every 2
single day it operates and all through the days of the 3
spent fuel.
4 And last year I asked the question, and I'm 5
still waiting for an answer. I FOIA'd it and I haven't 6
gotten an answer. They're playing games with me. How 7
much high burn-up fuel is there in the pools at Indian 8
Point?
9 (Applause.)
10 MS. SHAPIRO: We need to know that. We 11 have a right to know that. There's no security issue 12 as to why we can't know that. I'd like an answer 13 tonight.
14 I'm sure you know it. I'm sure one of the 15 Entergy people here know it. And I really request once 16 again that Entergy is here to answer our questions.
17 The other question is how many hot 18 shutdowns have there been since Entergy took ownership 19 of this plant?
20 Every time there's a hot shutdown, we, the 21 public, there's a greater increase of radiation 22 exposure.
23 FACILITATOR KLUKAN:
It's your 24 three-minute time.
25
40 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MS. SHAPIRO: Women and children are much 1
more susceptible to radiation than -- women two times.
2 Children seven --
3 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
4 (Applause.)
5 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: And just before we 6
move on, I -- while someone is speaking -- again, you're 7
welcome to clap afterwards, of course. But while 8
someone is speaking, I would ask that we not -- my mic 9
-- there we go.
10 Okay. While someone is speaking, you're 11 welcome to clap as much as you want afterwards. You 12 know, why not? But while someone is speaking, I ask 13 that you please don't interject anything that would 14 interfere with the person or, you know, interfere with 15 their train of thought, you know. Be respectful to each 16 other. That's all. Okay.
17 MS. SHAPIRO: Do you have the answer?
18 MR. DORMAN: I do not have a specific 19 answer on the high burn-up question. I know you have 20 provided those FOIA requests.
21 And I think the struggle that, you know, I 22 think the balance that we try to maintain and have tried 23 to maintain and have been moved on over the last 15 years 24 since the 9/11 terrorist attacks is the balance between 25
41 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 protecting information that would be advantageous to 1
somebody who might have ill intent toward any of our 2
facilities and our commitment to open this to the 3
public.
4 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: All right. I'm 5
sorry. No hissing.
6 MR. DORMAN: So, that is a balance that we 7
try to strike. I understand you have provided a FOIA 8
request. That's getting it into the right hands in the 9
Agency to make those decisions, but I don't, 10 unfortunately, have an answer for you here tonight.
11 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: And, again, I 12 recognize that many of you have very strong opinions 13 about what we're saying, what others in the audience are 14 saying. You're welcome to use your three minutes as you 15 wish, but while others are speaking I ask that you please 16 show them respect whether it be the NRC or fellow members 17 of this audience.
18 You're welcome to hold up signs when 19 they're speaking, but please do not vocalize your 20 dissent while they're at the microphone. Thank you.
21 (Applause.)
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: All right. Next up 23 is Mr. Liberatore, followed by Mr. Paul Blanch and then 24 Mr. Michele Lee. Thank you.
25
42 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MR. LIBERATORE: Good evening. My name is 1
Al Liberatore. I'm a business agent for Teamsters 2
Local 456. I represent the highly skilled and trained 3
nuclear security officers at Indian Point.
4 Teamsters Local 456 security officers are 5
responsible for the safety and security of the Indian 6
Point Energy Point.
7 We have the experience and know-how that is 8
necessary to ensure that Indian Point maintains its 9
current record of safe operations. We are proud of the 10 job we do and we are proud of the plant and its safety 11 record.
12 The NRC has given Indian Point the highest 13 safety rating in the last five years. The swift 14 response to the transformer malfunction only reaffirms 15 our skills and ability to handle any and all contingency 16 plans.
17 The Department of Homeland Security and 18 Department of Defense coordinate with the NRC, New York 19 State Office of Emergency Management and regional 20 government authorities on a daily basis to ensure that 21 the public safety is the top priority of Indian Point 22 and the surrounding areas. Measures are in place to 23 ensure alerts go out rapidly should the need arise.
24 Shutting down Indian Point would have a 25
43 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 catastrophic impact on the area economy. Indian Point 1
is also an economic driver in the region supplying 2
thousands of well-paying jobs across Westchester County 3
and the cleanest, most inexpensive way to produce 4
energy.
5 Residents of New York State would be faced 6
with a considerable rise in electric bills. And 7
closing the site means municipalities, schools and 8
services that depend on the tax revenues from Indian 9
Point would be cut drastically and cause possible 10 layoffs in those communities.
11 Businesses would be forced to leave the 12 area, families could lose their homes and the entire 13 region would suffer.
14 Indian Point's continued operation is 15 necessary for our economy. Thank you.
16 (Applause.)
17 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: All right. Again, 18 we'll have Mr. Blanch, followed by Mr. Lee, then 19 followed by Mr. Joe Goble (phonetic). Thank you.
20 MR. BLANCH: Good evening. I'm going to 21 try to stay to three minutes and I've shortened up my 22 speech, but it's going to be continued by some 23 supporters.
24 My name is Paul Blanch. I reside in West 25
44 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Hartford, Connecticut. I'm a nuclear expert and all my 1
work is pro bono. My ultimate objective is nuclear 2
safety.
3 Tonight I'm presenting two concerns 4
related to vital Indian Point issues. The first issue 5
relates to the Indian Point 42-inch gas line in close 6
proximity to the vital structures of Indian Point.
7 The second issue is my opinion related to 8
the recent transformer failure and a new safety issue 9
revealed in the press on vital power sources.
10 I was an expert witness for the State of New 11 York for the Transformer Aging Management Program and 12 I am a transformer expert.
13 On January 28th we had a teleconference 14 with the NRC on my petition for the gas line. The NRC 15 would not provide any comments responsive to our 16 concern and refused to respond to my questions proposed 17 in my letter of May 2nd and provided inaccurate, false 18 data in its letter to me dated April 28th.
19 This is not only false data, but it's 20 inaccurate data. It misquotes references cited by the 21 NRC.
22 Some of the significant issues that I am 23 going to bring up on the pipeline is in its analysis 24 obtained under a FOIA appeal, the NRC knowingly 25
45 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 manipulated probability data in order to convince the 1
public that this was a low-risk event. The NRC cited 2
data from references that were not contained within 3
these reference.
4 The final result was that the NRC was able 5
to reduce the probability of a gas line explosion by a 6
factor of more than 10,000 -- I'll repeat that. 10,000.
7 Thus, making the risk acceptable by NRC regulations.
8 The NRC used a computer program used to 9
calculate the gas release rate and the total gas blast 10 area that is prohibited, absolutely prohibited by the 11 EPA from use in this configuration.
12 The Department of Energy -- okay. We now 13 have a letter from the NRC stating the pipeline 14 isolation valves are constructed under the criteria 15 developed by the US DOT. Therefore, the petitioner's 16 concerns are invalid.
17 DOT hasn't a clue for testing redundancy 18 for nuclear power operations. The NRC is essentially 19 given the responsibility to the Department of Energy --
20 or Department of Transportation for the overall safety 21 of nuclear power plants.
22 This is the NRC's exclusive right and they 23 have no business delegating reactor safety to the 24 Department of Energy that has one inspector per 5,000 25
46 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 miles.
1 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you, Mr.
2 Blanch.
3 MR. BLANCH: Thank you.
4 (Applause.)
5 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. Next up --
6 sorry. Apologize.
7 MR. DORMAN: I want to note that Mr. Blanch 8
got about a page and a half into an eight-page statement 9
that he has provided to us and we are bringing that back.
10 And there are a number of things that you 11 asserted in there that I will take back and refer to our 12 Office of Inspector General, because they do make 13 assertions of wrongdoing by the staff.
14 I would note the valves in the pipeline will 15 be regulated by DOT. We don't regulate valves in gas 16 pipelines. Our concern is whether that pipeline, what 17 safety impact that would have on Indian Point.
18 There have been a couple of comments about 19 the distance from that pipeline and where it's proposed 20 to go relative to structures and components at Indian 21 Point.
22 The analysis of the staff looked at the 23 location of that pipeline and there have been a couple 24 of comments that use the term "vital components." And 25
47 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 in our regulations, vital components has a particular 1
meaning and it relates to those components that are used 2
for the safe shutdown of the facility in the event of, 3
in this case, the gas pipeline explosion.
4 In the staff's examination of the location 5
for the pipeline, the distance from the pipeline, the 6
closest point from the proposed location of the 42-inch 7
pipeline to what's called the security owner controlled 8
area or the outer fence line of the Indian Point nuclear 9
power plant is 1,580 feet. And all of the vital 10 components that go into the staff's analysis are inside 11 the fence line.
12 There are concerns that Mr. Blanch and 13 others have raised about other components that are 14 outside that fence line. Mr. Blanch has provided a 15 petition, as he indicated, to the NRC. And that 16 petition is still ongoing.
17 There's another meeting to come for Mr.
18 Blanch to provide additional information. Understand 19 the previous meeting that he had was not particularly 20 satisfying to him. We hope we'll do better in the next 21 go-around.
22 (Speaking off mic.)
23 MR. SPEAKER: Yes. So, for the recording, 24 Mr. Blanch's comment is that we want a local meeting.
25
48 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 And the normal process in the Petition Review Board, we 1
would like to have our technical experts readily 2
available to engage in that meeting.
3 So, it would typically be a meeting that 4
would be centered in our headquarter's office, but we 5
understand that the request has been made for a local 6
meeting. Thank you.
7 (Applause.)
8 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Again, I 9
apologize in pronouncing your name "Michael." You're 10 clearly a Michelle. So, I apologize for that.
11 MS. LEE: My parents couldn't spell.
12 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: So, please.
13 MS. LEE: Let me just ask -- I'm going to 14 read from some testimony from the ASLB hearings, too.
15 Would you like the original copy to look at?
16 MR. DORMAN: I expect we have a copy of 17 that.
18 MS. LEE: Okay.
19 MR. DORMAN: Thank you.
20 MS. LEE: Well, I didn't know if you'd want 21 to read along. These are just the transcripts on the 22 transformer fire question, which of course was decided 23 to be no big deal because regular maintenance picks up 24 everything.
25
49 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 I really want to begin here with getting to 1
the crux of the issue. Let me read from a quote from 2
former prime minister of Japan, Naoto Kan, who was prime 3
minister during the Fukushima crisis. And he came and 4
spoke to us in New York City twice. And this is one of 5
his -- the first time he spoke.
6 And he was describing the point in the 7
Fukushima reactor accident when he brought his experts 8
around him and asked them what's the worst case 9
scenario.
10 To quote: I do remember that Fukushima was 11 150 miles from Tokyo. 50 million people, almost half 12 the entire nation of Japan, abandoned homes, leave 13 workplace, schools, hospitals, all evacuated. I 14 realized Japan would not be able to function as a nation 15 for a very long period of time. They couldn't minimize 16 spread before a situation so grave.
17 Now, bear in mind that 80 percent of the 18 radiation from Fukushima blew out to sea to the Pacific 19 Ocean.
20 Indian Point is not near the sea. An 21 accident at Indian Point would devastate the New York 22 metropolitan region.
23 And here, gentlemen and any ladies who 24 might be with the NRC today, is my question to you, 25
50 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 because I believe you are misleading the people of New 1
York and the American public when you state that you have 2
determined there is safety and reasonable assurance, 3
because reasonable assurance means different things to 4
you than it would mean to any normal member of the 5
public.
6 You say that the risk of a major accident 7
is low-risk, what you call high-consequence events are 8
low-risk so that they can be discounted. And yet, when 9
you go and talk to the public, I've never once heard any 10 member of the NRC emphasize the fact that the nuclear 11 industry will not self-insure, that under the 12 Price-Anderson Act of 1957, half a century ago before 13 nuclear power was supposed to be proven so safe, that 14 neither the insurance industry, the independent arbiter 15 of risk, nor the nuclear industry, which knows the 16 reality of its own safety, will insure for risk, that 17 that is based on the public.
18 And I think that is a pretty relevant fact 19 and you should bring it up, I think, every time you give 20 a reasonable assurance of safety. Thank you.
21 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you very much.
22 (Applause.)
23 MR. DORMAN: Stipulate the point on 24 Price-Anderson. On the high-consequence, low-risk, 25
51 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 this is a central point for the NRC in the Fukushima 1
lessons learned.
2 And the earthquake and the tsunami that 3
followed in Japan devastated an area of several hundred 4
miles of coastline as much as three to seven miles inland 5
from the tsunami effects.
6 There were in Japan in those weeks that 7
followed, four and a half million people without 8
electricity, a million and a half people without water, 9
15 to 25,000 was the numbers that were being thrown 10 around of the dead or missing.
11 There were hundreds of thousands of people 12 who were out of their homes before there was a problem 13 at Fukushima. And the lesson for me from that was that 14 the nuclear industry and the nuclear power plants have 15 to have the capacity to prevent core damage for as long 16 as it takes for the civil society to recover from an 17 event of that catastrophic magnitude.
18 And that is at the heart of the actions that 19 were ordered by the Commission in 2012 that have been 20 completed for Indian Point Unit 3 in their last outage, 21 and will be completed for Indian Point Unit 2 in their 22 next outage to provide the capability for natural 23 disasters of unforseen magnitude that would impact the 24 cooling supplies and the electric supplies for the plant 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 such that they get into what we call a long-term station 1
blackout.
2 So, the plant has the capability now to cope 3
for the first 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> using the installed equipment.
4 They have in a building on the site today, I was just 5
out there this morning looking at them, they have 6
portable generators, portable pumps, miles of cabling, 7
hosing, all the things that the Japanese operators were 8
struggling to do.
9 They knew what they needed to do. They 10 didn't have the resources. They didn't have the 11 procedures. They didn't have the capability to put it 12 in place in the time that they had available at Fukushima 13 Daiichi.
14 Fukushima Daini, which is about ten miles 15 down the coast from Fukushima Daiichi, had the same 16 earthquake and tsunami. And there, the operators were 17 successful without the pre-staging. So, that's a key 18 part of the Fukushima lessons learned.
19 And then the third piece of it is in 20 industry centers, there's a center in Memphis, 21 Tennessee and a center in Phoenix, Arizona, and the 22 industry is set up -- the reason those are there is those 23 are FedEx hubs and they can get that equipment to any 24 nuclear power plant in the country within 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> to 25
53 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 ensure a sustainability to maintain the reactor --
1 prevent the reactor from being damaged, prevent the 2
spent fuel from being damaged in unspecified scenarios 3
of natural disasters without the support of the civil 4
society.
5 So, I appreciate the perspective on the 6
high-consequence, low-risk -- or, excuse me -- yeah, 7
high-consequence, low-probability events. That was a 8
key focus of our efforts and the lessons learned from 9
Fukushima.
10 (Applause.)
11 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Just to give you some 12 indication so when I hold this up, that means you have 13 two minutes. If you see me take down the yellow sign, 14 that means I'm about to hold up the red one. So, start 15 thinking about wrapping up your remarks.
16 Also, I found out I was holding up the signs 17 upside down. I apologize for that.
18 (Laughter.)
19 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: And so, Mr. Goble, 20 please, you will be followed by Mr. Arnold Piacentini, 21 and then Ms. Margo Shepherd (phonetic).
22 MR. GOBLE: Thank you. My name is Joe 23 Goble. I have worked at Indian Point for 35 years. And 24 the comments I make tonight are my own and not in any 25
54 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 way endorsed -- or not endorsed by Entergy.
1 In any case, I want to talk about the 2
relicensing of Indian Point and the water quality 3
certification by the State of New York.
4 If you consider Governor Cuomo is opposed 5
to relicensing Indian Point, I want to ask the question 6
if he's influenced the DEC in a matter similar to the 7
Moreland Commission.
8 I submit that the proposal by the DEC to 9
build cooling towers at Indian Point and take outages 10 between May and August has nothing to do with protecting 11 the fish.
12 You see, the Government has no jurisdiction 13 over Indian Point in relicensing, but it can tell the 14 DEC to come up with some fake requirement that makes 15 Indian Point a financial loss to operate and forcing 16 Entergy shut it down.
17 Case in point, would you own an ice cream 18 stand in New York State if they told you, you couldn't 19 sell ice cream between May and August? Not likely.
20 Here's some facts that point to politics 21 versus fish protection. The State itself owned Indian 22 Point and operated it for nearly 25 years. And between 23 May and August it sucked in over 800,000 gallons a minute 24 of Hudson River water every day, every minute of the day.
25
55 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 In 2000, New York State privatized the 1
operation of Indian Point when it sold the plant to 2
Entergy.
3 Now, 15 years later during the relicensing 4
process the State objects to the plant's operation.
5 Does that sound very ethical to you?
6 Wedge wire screens is what Entergy has 7
proposed to use to cut the fish -- any damage of the fish 8
down even further. The DEC has licensed those and 9
allowed those to be used about a hundred feet up from 10 Indian Point at the garbage running plant. Why not at 11 Indian Point?
12 In 2009 and again this year the DEC 13 published a document called "The State of the Hudson 14 River." There's no mention of Indian Point within this 15 document and the report states the biggest influence on 16 the fish population has been commercial fishing.
17 And since banning commercial fishing, the 18 fish population has begun to increase in the Hudson 19 River.
20 Lastly, on May 1st of last year the Federal 21 government implemented a new capacity zone resulting in 22 increased electrical bills.
23 This increase was designed to lure more 24 power plants into the Hudson Valley by guaranteeing them 25
56 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 increased profits.
1 The initial power generation is needed to 2
fill a gap in backup capacity in New York City, which 3
is otherwise at risk for blackouts during heat waves.
4 Aren't most heat waves likely to occur between May and 5
August?
6 So, NRC, I'm asking you to take another look 7
at this requirement for award of quality certification 8
as part of the relicensing of Indian Point based on the 9
validity of what the State has proposed. Thank you.
10 (Applause.)
11 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Mr. Piacentini.
12 MR. PIACENTINI: Is this on? That's 13 better. Good evening. My name is Arnold Piacentini 14 from Richmond, Mass. I hold three degrees in chemical 15 engineering and worked for the petrochemicals industry 16 in several responsible and forward-looking technical 17 and commercial positions.
18 The operational, legal, regulatory and 19 controversial history of this plant is well documented.
20 What brings me here this evening is the 21 incredible decision by the NRC, FERC, Entergy and 22 Spectra to permit the AIM project with the intent to 23 construct a 42-inch-diameter loop of high-pressure 24 fracked gas pipeline within only 105 feet for a million 25
57 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 gallons of oil product needed for critical operation of 1
the plant. That, in addition to this, that there are 2
other hazards grouped in proximity to one another.
3 On this property are two existing gas 4
pipelines that go back to the '50s and '60s. Indian 5
Point is 40 years old and stored on site are 40 years 6
of radioactive spent fuel.
7 Proposed are two 1,000-megawatt 8
transmission lines, both of which would intersect AIM.
9 Electromagnetic induction can interfere with cathodic 10 protection and further induce currents which would 11 accelerate corrosion.
12 In addition, AIM would intersect with the 13 CSX rail line which transports what have proven to be 14 explosive railcars of (inaudible) shale crude or oil 15 synthesized by mixing (inaudible) extract with fracked 16 gas.
17 That Indian Point sits on two faults is well 18 known. New York State officials will eventually make 19 arrangements to shut this plant down and hopefully 20 replace it with renewable sources. The NRC's 21 responsibility is to get us from now to that point in 22 time without further incident.
23 Statistics compiled by DOT's PHMSA for the 24 nine-year nine-month period ending September of last 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 year show an average incident rate for gas transmission 1
lines of about one per week.
2 For all pipelines, gas and liquid, 3
distribution and transmission, that rate is 4.5 per 4
week. These are as reported by the industry.
5 Clearly, the pipeline industry in its 6
current unregulated state is out of control and DOT 7
seems impotent to influence safety left only to 8
reporting.
9 So, how can NRC contemplate taking this 10 imaginable risk? The first principle of risk 11 management is for one not to risk more than one can lose.
12 Obviously, we cannot afford to lose what is 13 at risk here. This complicated set of hazardous 14 scenarios are not subject to a quantifiable model of 15 statistical probabilities.
16 It is instead one where level heads with 17 power to influence, such as you, the outcome must make 18 judicious decisions. Corporations with profit, motive 19 and without liability do not qualify.
20 I ask that NRC withdraws its approval of the 21 Spectra AIM project. Thank you.
22 (Applause.)
23 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
24 Ms. Shepherd.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MS. SHEPHERD: It's amazing how many 1
intelligent, knowledgeable elected officials and 2
residents of the New York metro area can come here year 3
after year after year after year and have the NRC still 4
pay no attention to them, but I am very, very proud of 5
the people that have spoken today.
6 So, near the City of New York on the lovely 7
Hudson shore, two leaky nuke plants make tons of waste 8
to go in fuel pools that can't hold more. The NRC makes 9
scary rules for health and safety we can only hope.
10 Because even though they catch on fire, the main 11 transformers are out of scope.
12 Please join me. NRC is a rubber stamp 13 machine, a rubber stamp machine, a rubber stamp machine.
14 NRC is a rubber stamp machine, a rubber stamp machine, 15 a rubber stamp machine.
16 So much has changed over the years, the 17 population has really grown. We also live with terror 18 threats, and extra earthquake faults that were unknown.
19 The NRC can change its rules which makes relicensing a 20 rigged event. So, even though they catch on fire, the 21 main transformers are exempt.
22
'cause NRC is a rubber stamp machine, a 23 rubber stamp machine, a rubber stamp machine. NRC is 24 a rubber stamp machine, a rubber stamp machine, a rubber 25
60 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 stamp machine.
1 It's really hard to understand how fire 2
safety can just be reduced. It's no surprise the NRC 3
is giving Entergy another boost. And now the lawsuits 4
are in the court, because those exemptions are unsafe 5
for folks. But it's been dragging on and on, this whole 6
procedure is a giant hoax.
7
'cause NRC is a rubber stamp machine, a 8
rubber stamp machine, a rubber stamp machine. NRC is 9
a rubber stamp machine, a rubber stamp machine, a rubber 10 stamp machine. Thank you.
11 (Applause.)
12 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. Thank you.
13 We're actually -- we had two elected officials join us 14 a little late. So, we're going to have them introduce 15 themselves now.
16 (Comments off record.)
17 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: So, right now we're 18 going to have Mr. Thomas -- or, excuse me. I apologize.
19 Assemblyman Mr. Abentini -- oh, I said it wrong.
20 MR. ABINANTI: That's okay. I'll get it.
21 I'll get it. Thank you.
22 It's Tom Abinanti. I am the New York State 23 assemblyman. I represent this area. Thank you for 24 coming back to Westchester again. You're in the center 25
61 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 of my district. So, welcome. I appreciate your coming 1
to hear what people have to say.
2 I've appeared here before. My message has 3
always been the same. I have very serious concerns 4
about continuing the operation of the Indian Point 5
nuclear power plants.
6 I spent 19 years as a Westchester County 7
legislature representing this area. Now, I'm in my 8
fifth year as a New York State assemblyman and I think 9
most of what needs to be said is being said by the people 10 who live in this are and are very seriously concerned 11 about their safety and the safety of our neighborhoods.
12 You will recall that the Westchester County 13 legislature repeatedly has expressed concerns which 14 have not been addressed. There were statements that 15 there's no way to evacuate. That's obvious.
16 I mean, you just go outside right now. You 17 can't get out of the parking lot here. You're not going 18 to get people anywhere. So, sheltering in place then 19 is the only possibility and that basically is not a real 20 plan.
21 The New York State Assembly has passed a 22 resolution expressing concerns about continuation of 23 the Indian Point power plant.
24 We've had, you know, the Governor -- it's 25
62 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 been stated the Governor is concerned. The DEC is 1
concerned. Just about everyone is concerned, everyone 2
who is responsible for ensuring the safety of the people 3
who live in this area.
4 I mean, even as it was pointed out, you 5
can't even get the insurance companies to insure the 6
plant. We're talking here about a million point seven 7
people who -- let's try it again. 1.7 million people 8
who live in near proximity to the plant, not to mention 9
the eight million people who are in New York City 10 downwind, but just in this area when you look at the --
11 and it's growing.
12 You never would put this plant here. I 13 can't understand why anybody is seriously considering 14 renewing the license.
15 It's an old -- it's an old car that we've 16 kept going. Somewhere along the way the car breaks 17 down, you know. So, somewhere along the way we have to 18 end this plant.
19 We've been fortunate. There haven't been 20 any really serious incidents, but we're getting more and 21 more incidents. How much longer can we keep this plant 22 going?
23 I'm very concerned about that and somewhere 24 along the way you got to say, let's just close it down.
25
63 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 And I think we're to that point.
1 (Applause.)
2 MR. ABINANTI: I mean, let's -- we all 3
understand that it was built, what, 40 years ago with 4
technology that's probably 60 years old. We're not 5
talking about new technology. We're not talking about 6
a new plant.
7 I come back every year, and every year I 8
come back there has been another incident. Again, 9
we've been fortunate that none of these incidents have 10 been very serious. But if they were serious, what do 11 we do?
12 All of these people can't move. They can't 13 go. And are you just going to write off billions and 14 billions of dollars worth of real estate? Are you going 15 to write off billions and billions of dollars of 16 everything else that's in those real estate?
17 I mean, this is -- we like to think we're 18 in the center of the world. We don't want to see the 19 center of the world just go just because we decided, 20 well, we're going to try to stretch this place a little 21 bit longer.
22 So, I ask you to please hear what people 23 have to say, you know. It really is time to say, thank 24 you for your service, we've been fortunate, but now 25
64 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 let's just move on and do something else with the site.
1 So, thank you for listening.
2 (Applause.)
3 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. Before I call 4
the next elected official, it was brought to my 5
attention that someone, to be blunt, was making 6
flatulence noises during -- I did not know. I heard it.
7 I didn't know if it was part of the song or not. So, 8
I apologize.
9 That's going to -- and if I hear that again 10
-- that's one verbal warning. If I hear it again, 11 you'll go to two. So, I would ask you to please refrain 12 from doing that while other people are speaking. I 13 apologize I didn't catch it earlier. Thank you.
14 And next up will be Miss Theresa 15 Knickerbocker who is the mayor of the Village of 16 Buchanan. Thank you.
17 MS. KNICKERBOCKER: Thank you. Thank you 18 for allowing me to speak this evening. I wasn't going 19 to speak. But after hearing some of the comments, I 20 felt that it was necessary I do speak.
21 First, I'd like to say to everyone, you 22 know, I understand your concerns. Okay. We are --
23 we're not like closing our eyes to things. I understand 24 you're scared.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 I understand, but I live in The Village of 1
Buchanan. I live there. So, I'm going to tell you a 2
little story.
3 I grew up in the Village of Buchanan. I was 4
very, very young. It was early '60s when the plant was 5
being built. I know and I knew most of those people that 6
worked at that plant. Very good, honest, hard-working 7
people. You couldn't ask for better people. They had 8
a lot of pride in what they did.
9 Fast forward all these years. I was 10 fortunate last year to become Mayor of The Village of 11 Buchanan. I was very honored to be able to do that.
12 I have my family that lives there. I have 13 many, many friends who live there. We have a small 14 community. We've a very tight-knit community. All of 15 those people are family to me and I'm very protective 16 of my family.
17 If I felt that that plant was in any way 18 unsafe, I'd be singing with you. I'm not going to sing 19 for you tonight, just so you know. I'd be singing with 20 you. Okay. I don't feel that way, and nor do the 21 people in the community.
22 I live in -- we have a tri-village; 23 Buchanan, Montrose, Verplanck. When we had that 24 transformer fire last week, I knew very quickly about 25
66 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 it. I happened to be standing in my driveway and saw 1
the black smoke.
2 Within minutes my -- someone had called my 3
phone alerting me of it. And the most important thing 4
to me was there was no health or safety danger to my 5
residence. That is my ultimate concern.
6 When I found out it was a transformer fire 7
-- my police chief -- to go back, my police chief had 8
called me. Entergy had called me. So, I was very well 9
-- they have been very transparent.
10 I know that's hard for some people to 11 understand. But since I've been the mayor for the past 12 year, anything I've needed to ask them, any questions, 13 they have been very up front.
14 And, you know, they've done updates on this 15 and of course we're not happy with the oil going into 16 the water. We live there. I learned how to swim in the 17 Hudson River, you know. I'm very attached to the 18 community. I decided to stay here instead of move away.
19 And if there's anything that ever happens, 20 of course, you know, we are going to be the ones that 21 are hurt the most. We live right there, but I --
22 honestly, you're going to think I'm crazy, probably, 23 some of you, but I do not fear living there.
24 A lot of the people who work at that plant 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 also live in the community. They either live in 1
Buchanan or the Tri-Village. They live very close by.
2 I find it very hard to believe that these 3
people who have their families, their friends, their 4
lives there would risk everything for a job.
5 They would not do that. They would leave.
6 They would not be working there. These are all good 7
people.
8 And I owned a deli for many years. I got 9
to know many of these people that work there. So, a lot 10 of -- just so everyone understands, these people live 11 and work in the community. They are concerned for the 12 safety also.
13 I also know that Entergy has spent over the 14 last ten years about over a billion dollars, I 15 understand, in upgrades. It is an older -- it is an 16 older nuclear facility, but Entergy does put the money 17 into it.
18 I, you know, I -- we want it to be safe.
19 I've been working with the ladies and gentlemen of the 20 Stop the Algonquin Pipeline Expansion which is coming 21 through the Village of Buchanan.
22 Not only is it close to our Indian Point, 23 which is a huge concern for us, a nuclear power plant, 24 we want it to be safe, we don' want any problems, we don't 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 want to lose our homes, we don't want to lose our lives, 1
I mean, we're all in agreement with that. So, we want 2
it to be operated safely.
3 Also in addition, we have 450 feet away from 4
a school this Algonquin pipeline is proposed to come 5
through. So, we're getting a double whammy here.
6 So, I just -- yeah, we can go into hours on 7
FERC and what's been happening, but, you know, we have 8
been fighting -- the Village of Buchanan has been 9
fighting for over a year the Town of Cortlandt with 10 Supervisor Puglisi with this pipeline.
11 So, I just want to say I'm very happy that 12 there is NRC staff on site. I understand that you are 13 able to go anywhere, speak to any employee at any time.
14 And, you know, the Village of Buchanan and I could also 15 tell you with my board if we felt that it was a safety 16 issue, we would be right with everyone else fighting it, 17 but we don't feel that way.
18 I have toured the plant. They have showed 19 me, you know, we have taken people in, different 20 politicians and things and they have seen the plant.
21 So, I just, you know, I respect everyone's 22 opinion, but I just have to disagree with you. Thank 23 you very much.
24 (Applause.)
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: I noticed a lot of you 1
looking at your watches there. For elected officials, 2
I don't keep track of time. I look to them to police 3
their own time.
4 Next up will be Mr. Jerry Kremer, followed 5
by Ms. Tatiana Comb (phonetic), and then Ms. Edie 6
Kantrowitz. So, again, Mr. Kremer.
7 MR. KREMER: Thank you very much, and I 8
want to thank the panel for coming and taking the time 9
and taking the good along with the bad.
10 I'm the chairman of the Affordable, 11 Reliable Electricity Alliance which represents over 200 12 organizations, including all the chambers in this 13 region, labor unions.
14 I served the New York State Assembly for 23 15 years. I chaired the Energy Committee and I helped 16 write the Power Plant Siting Law, the first law. Our 17 organization strongly supports the relicensing of 18 Indian Point.
19 It's fascinating that the NRC has devoted 20 over 8,000 hours0 days <br />0 hours <br />0 weeks <br />0 months <br /> of inspections at Indian Point, and all 21 those inspections have resulted in a finding that this 22 plant is unequivocally safe.
23 Since Entergy took over and it's been 24 mentioned that they've spent well over a billion 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 dollars, that's not an old plant anymore when you spend 1
that kind of money.
2 They've earned the highest safety 3
recommendations from the US Nuclear Regulatory 4
Commission.
5 What's fascinating about this is that 6
people continue to oppose and oppose and oppose, and now 7
the licensing process has taken eight years.
8 The way things are going, the plant will 9
obviously at some time finish its useful life while the 10 protest is still going on.
11 Somebody mentioned earlier tonight that 12 Entergy released the idea as to the amount of power 13 that's generated by Indian Point.
14 The independent system operators, the ISO, 15 the people who supervise that system have warned 16 numerous times that if Indian Point would close, there 17 would be rolling blackouts, brownouts.
18 Indian Point's 2,000 megawatts have proven 19 to be 25 percent of the electricity supply in New York 20 City. It's not somebody's hyperbole, it's the fact.
21 I would invite anybody in this room who 22 feels so strongly about the closing of Indian Point to 23 take about a half a day and go out to Shoreham, Long 24 Island and talk to the people out there what happened 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 after the plant closed.
1 They devastated the town of Brookhaven, the 2
Shoreham Public School District and the County of 3
Suffolk, because all of these taxing regions were 4
literally devastated.
5 When I look around this room, I look over 6
here and I see all these people who have signs saying 7
that they support Indian Point. They are your 8
neighbors. They're not from Utah or Montana. These 9
are people who shop with you, who go to churches and 10 synagogues and who participate in the community.
11 They wouldn't go to work every day if they 12 thought this plant was unsafe. And I truly believe 13 that.
14 I want to commend you for sending a team to 15 investigate the transformer fire. It's a fact that 16 there have been 21 transformer fires in different plants 17 in New York State. Nobody has ever been shut down. We 18 find the causes and we find a way to cure them.
19 Thank you for your time. We support Indian 20 Point.
21 (Applause.)
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: So, again, we'll have 23 Ms. Comb, followed by Ms. Edie Kantrowitz, followed then 24 by Mr. Thomas Czegg, C-Z-E-G-G. Thank you.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MS. COMB: So, (inaudible) NRC, at the 1
beginning of our meeting, NRC presented (inaudible) AIM 2
project do not add any threat to our area, which is 3
really against common sense.
4 The AIM project is not needed to us at all.
5 It's not needed for economy of New York, Massachusetts 6
or Connecticut.
7 It's only needed (inaudible) and you know 8
that this gas is not for our consume. It's for selling 9
to Canada and which you don't know, I think.
10 The second part, you probably don't know 11 that project, that old pipeline won't be replaced by new 12 ones. New pipelines will be added to the old pipelines.
13 So, it's actually a reality.
14 So, our Department of Transportation has 15 many levels of major and minor accidents. And we can 16 hear every week about some accidents of Department of 17 Transportation. So, we cannot really trust them.
18 And, unfortunately, NRC (inaudible) so 19 actually just they're not going to deal with -- really 20 with residents of the area and we need -- we would like 21 to ask NRC to do independent assessment of this project, 22 because we do not want to be hostages to the potential 23 catastrophe, what could happen if pipelines will 24 explode.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 And, please, NRC, please withdraw your 1
approval of the AIM project. We really need it. Thank 2
you for your attention.
3 (Applause.)
4 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
5 MR. DORMAN: If I could before you jump in, 6
ma'am, I want to address a couple of points on the 7
project that have been raised.
8 NRC's focus with respect to the project AIM 9
proposal is what would the impact be to Indian Point?
10 Nuclear safety is our jurisdiction.
11 We did not approve the FERC pipeline -- or 12 the project AIM pipeline. That's a different Federal 13 agency. I think most of you understand that.
14 What we did was we looked at the licensee's 15 evaluation of what would happen if there was an 16 explosion in the gas pipeline. And we did our own 17 analysis of what that would look like.
18 And what we did was we looked at a scenario 19 where the pipeline completely ruptured. The 42-inch 20 pipeline completely ruptured, blew gas for an hour and 21 then ignited.
22 And then we look at the over pressure at the 23 nuclear power plant and we look at the heat flux at the 24 nuclear power plant, and we look at what those would do 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 to the structures and systems and components that are 1
necessary to shut down the nuclear power plant.
2 Now, we have done that analysis. We had an 3
inspection report that recorded our analysis. And we 4
did some subsequent analysis in response to some 5
comments that we had. And we had Mr. Blanch's petition, 6
which is continuing in process.
7 So, I just wanted to clarify what we did and 8
what our role is that we -- there's been a couple of 9
requests that we withdraw our approval of the pipeline.
10 We didn't approve the pipeline. FERC did.
11 So, I just wanted to clarity that piece. Thank you.
12 MS. KANTROWITZ: My name is Edie 13 Kantrowitz -- am I on? Okay. Now, we are.
14 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
15 MS. KANTROWITZ: I'm with New York City 16 Friends of Clearwater and United for Action. And 17 listening to everything here tonight I'm just being 18 overwhelmed by a feeling of tragedy.
19 I see that the people from NRC are working 20 very hard. And I'm sure the folks from Entergy are 21 working very hard also to try to, you know, maintain 22 safety standards, improve safety standards, you know, 23 put band-aids on this aging plant.
24 And we're being given reassurances that the 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 plant is operating safely, but the plant is not 1
operating safely even when there is no accident at all 2
because even under normal operating conditions there is 3
radiation spewing into the atmosphere and people who 4
live near the plant are getting more cancer than people 5
in other areas. So, how can we say that we have a safe 6
operating plant?
7 How can we say that we're taking an 8
acceptable risk that there may not be a catastrophic 9
accident? Okay?
10 All right. Even if there's only a five 11 percent risk and, you know, I'm not going to go in 12 numbers, but what I'm saying is this would be a tragedy 13 of such magnitude.
14 As other people have already said, okay, 15 this is New York City we're talking about. This is the 16 financial center. This is the cultural center. This 17 is the nerve center. We can't risk this for nuclear 18 power which is totally unnecessary.
19 (Applause.)
20 MS. KANTROWITZ: We are given a false 21 choice between nuclear power and fossil fuels. We're 22 being told that if we don't have nuclear power, we're 23 going to have asthma.
24 That is totally not
- true, because 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 renewables are here and they're ready. Solar power, 1
wind power, small-scale hydroelectric are ready and we 2
don't need the nuclear power.
3 Now, I know people are concerned about jobs 4
and I share that concern about jobs. And I know people, 5
you know, people have said like, well, the folks who live 6
in Buchanan, they're fine folks, and I'm sure they are, 7
but what is the point of jobs if your children get sick, 8
if your whole town is destroyed by radiation, if our 9
whole way of life is destroyed by the way we're doing 10 things?
11 Okay. We have to wake up. We just have to 12 wake up. I know we're all trying to do the best that 13 we can with the technology, but we have to wake up to 14 the consequences. There's no two ways about it.
15 I'm not going to repeat all the things that 16 you already heard about why this is so dangerous. We 17 just have to wake up and realize that we don't need 18 nuclear power and we should go to renewables.
19 We need to close this plant and we need to 20 do it now.
21 (Applause.)
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. Next up we 23 have Mr. Czegg. Thomas Czegg.
24 MR. SPEAKER: Clegg.
25
77 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Clegg. Sorry.
1 Thought that was a Z. Is he with us? All right. Mr.
2 Clegg will be followed by Mr. Don Cafarelli, and then 3
Ms. Amy Rosmarin.
4 MR. CLEGG: Good evening. My name is 5
Thomas Clegg, member of the Utility Workers of America 6
Local 12.
7 What I'm going to talk about tonight, I want 8
to thank some of the people for the advance on it, is 9
the Price-Anderson Act. All right?
10 Imagine that the terrorist attack on 9/11 11 never took place. Instead, suppose on a busy weekday 12 morning about 11:00 a.m., a design defect in the floor 13 attached fitting for the World Trade Center building 14 caused a mid-level floor to collapse on the floor below 15 it. That started a chain reaction collapse that 16 brought down the building.
17 The upper floors tipped into the other 18 World Trade Center tower triggering the same effect and 19 bringing it down. There is no evacuation, because 20 there was no warning and 40,000 people die in 30 seconds.
21 A Boeing 747 takes off with a full load of 22 fuel on a long, international flight. One minute after 23 takeoff it flies through the wake of another jumbo jet.
24 The turbulence causes an undetected crack in the 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 vertical fin of the prop gate and the fin snaps off.
1 The 747 yawns (phonetic) sideways, rolls 2
onto its back and dives down through the roof of a large 3
sports arena holding a national championship basketball 4
game. 200,000 pounds of fuel atomized on impact with 5
the floor and erupt in an enormous fireball inside the 6
building consuming all oxygen and incinerating 40,000 7
people on live HD worldwide television.
8 In 1997, the EPA determined that the human 9
life was worth 5.8 million. Correct for inflation, 10 that is 7.6 million now. The loss in each case would 11 be 304 billion for human life, plus property loss.
12 The World Trade Center did not carry this 13 level of insurance. Should they have been prevented 14 from constructing those buildings without the adequate 15 insurance?
16 The airlines do not carry this level of 17 insurance. Should the airlines be grounded for lack of 18 adequate insurance coverage?
19 Suppose a biogenetic scientist in a major 20 pharmaceutical industry accidentally develops a virus 21 that is more contagious than the common cold and more 22 deadly than HIV virus.
23 He contaminates himself and his family.
24 The virus spreads around the world and kills half the 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 population. That would be a $25,000 trillion loss.
1 All the money in the world would not cover that loss.
2 Should we shut down the entire drug 3
industry and go back to life without medicine, because 4
it's not insured?
5 Dam fails have killed 8,000 people in the 6
United States. In 1975 a single dam failure in China 7
killed 30,000 people. Dams in the US are not insured 8
for the maximum imaginable loss.
9 Should we tear down all dams and give up on 10 the hydroplants and charge more per kilowatt to pay 11 insurance?
12 Coal plants are killing over 20,000 people 13 each year. That is $175 billion loss each year that the 14 coal plants are not paying for a virtual subsidy.
15 You are holding --
16 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Mr. Clegg, your three 17 minutes is up. I apologize.
18 MR. CLEGG: All right.
19 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Again, I'm going to 20 take this reminder --
21 (Applause.)
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. I'm going to 23 take this time -- I apologize. We are -- because we do 24 have many people who still want to speak, as you can 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 imagine, we're going to go until 9:40.
1 So, and I also ask for the indulgence if I 2
could take off my jacket granted it's not being videoed?
3 All right.
4 Okay. So, with that said --
5 MR. CAFARELLI: Yes. Just a quick update.
6 The Rangers are leading one nothing.
7 (Laughter.)
8 MR. CAFARELLI: My name is Don Cafarelli.
9 I work at Indian Point. I've been working at Indian 10 Point for over two decades. I sat with a group of 11 anti-nukes not to deceive them, but just to ask 12 questions independently.
13 This isn't my first rodeo. I've been to 14 these before. I could see how heated it could get when 15 you start arguing your points and I talked to some very 16 nice people. I'm glad to see visibility on both parts 17 and I hope it continues in the future.
18 Okay.
Point Number 1,
how many 19 electricians does it take to change a lightbulb? Well, 20 that depends where you're talking. If you're at home, 21 you could get up there, jump on a stool, take it out, 22 put it back in.
23 Indian Point, you have two qualified 24 electricians. Then you have engineered electrical 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 schematics telling you what wattage and how they are 1
placed.
2 You also have to have if it is in a protected 3
area, a first-line supervisor with you. You also have 4
to have the approval of the shift manager.
5 I wish I had my glasses, because my 6
penmanship is horrible. So, okay. So, you got that.
7 You had to walk down, get supervisor approval. You also 8
have seismic controls in some of the areas.
9 (Comments off mic.)
10 MR. CAFARELLI: Thank you. Appreciate 11 it. Much better. Thank you.
12 There was talk of spent fuel. What are we 13 doing with the spent fuel at Indian Point? Well, I 14 would suggest all the politicians here, all the 15 citizens, they contact Senate Minority Leader Harry 16 Reid and ask him why he was so willing to accept the 17 millions and millions of dollars that it took to build 18 the site that was used -- supposed to be used for 19 storage. And then once it came crunch time, he refused 20 to have the storage facility put to use.
21 Oh, yeah. As far as the women singing, if 22 you ask me, if you all want to live in a yellow submarine, 23 it has to be nuclear powered.
24 (Laughter.)
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 (Applause.)
1 MR. CAFARELLI: Last, but not least, as far 2
as the gentleman from Greenburgh, I know we're not 3
supposed to give hits, but personally I think for him 4
to compare nuclear power plants with the Holocaust is 5
despicable.
6 (Applause.)
7 MR. CAFARELLI: I'll leave it at that.
8 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
9 MS. ROSMARIN: Hi. I'm Amy Rosmarin.
10 I'm a councilwoman in the town of North Salem and I'm 11 continuing Paul Blanch's talk.
12 So, as Paul mentioned, he has tried to have 13 a follow-up meeting locally and the NRC has refused.
14 From its website, the NRC's principle of 15 good regulation states, all parties will benefit from 16 a local meeting as this will assist in the establishment 17 of public confidence in the NRC process, demonstrate 18 that the NRC is consistently supporting its primary 19 mission of protecting people in the environment. This 20 way the public will be reassured about the safe 21 operations of Indian Point.
22 To me, and that would be Paul, a meeting is 23 a dialog between parties and openly exchanging 24 information and not just a one-way conversation as it's 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 been in the past.
1 Right. Next we want to speak about 2
transformers. Paul's second comment relates to the 3
recent failure of the main transformer and the discharge 4
of significant oil to the Hudson River and nearly 5
flooding safety-related electrical systems.
6 During the relicensing hearings for Indian 7
Point, he was an expert witness for the attorney general 8
of New York identifying the fact that Indian Point's 9
transformers failed to meet the NRC requirements, 10 CFR 10 54, for an aging management program, AMR.
11 This formal contention for the need of 12 better maintenance was opposed by both Entergy and the 13 NRC.
14 A formal court hearing on this topic was 15 conducted in December 2012 in Tarrytown, New York. The 16 court, the Atomic Safety and Licensing Board, ASLB, 17 ruled that Indian Point must implement a more robust 18 AMR. However, both the NRC staff and Entergy opposed 19 this ASLB ruling and appealed to the full commission to 20 overturn the court's decision.
21 Recently the full commission overruled the 22 ASLB decision thereby negating the requirement for any 23 transformer Aging Management Program.
24 This is the very first time that the 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Commission has overturned an ASLB decision in the NRC 1
license renewal process.
2 I, meaning Paul, am not claiming that this 3
political decision was the cause of the recent 4
transformer explosion. However, it may have been a 5
significant contributing factor.
6 Had Entergy implemented an AMR for the 7
transformers, this catastrophe may have been avoided.
8 The lack of an AMR leads to potential transformer 9
failures.
10 I have no doubt that both the NRC and 11 Entergy will conduct some type of root cause 12 investigation. Again, I question the motivation and 13 independence of both of these organizations to identify 14 themselves as a contributor to the transformer 15 explosion and the release of oil to the Hudson River.
16 Again, I plead that concerned citizens call 17 their congressional representatives and the NRC 18 chairman's office and demand a public meeting to be 19 conducted locally.
20 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
21 (Applause.)
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: If you're speaking on 23 behalf of -- as yourself in your position of 24 councilwoman, then, I mean, it's only fair that I allow 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 you to continue within a reasonable time.
1 I know that Mr. Blanch's speech goes on for, 2
as he himself indicated, can be for quite a while.
3 So, I'm asking you to make that decision as 4
an elected official how you want to use your time in 5
fairness to everyone else in the room.
6 MS. ROSMARIN: Okay. I'll go one more 7
minute.
8 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Fair enough.
9 MS. ROSMARIN: Okay. So, a list of these 10 untrue, unsupported and inaccurate statements by the 11 NRC and Entergy is provided here.
12 All right. And we demand a timely and 13 written answer to the following questions: I have 14 reliable information that the million-gallon fuel oil 15 tanks located within the blast radius of the gas lines 16 may contain flammable materials, liquids and/or gases.
17 Entergy and the NRC have ignored these 18 tanks in its analysis. The NRC's senior resident 19 inspector Mr. Scott Stewart was directed by his 20 management not to confirm these tanks were empty.
21 Doug Pickett refused to confirm these tanks 22 did not contain flammable materials and directed me to 23 contact the NRC's Office of Public Affairs.
24 Neil Sheehan from the Office of Public 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Affairs stated to me that it was his understanding that 1
these tanks are empty.
2 All NRC contacts absolutely refused any 3
definitive statement as to the actual content of these 4
tanks as this would negate the entire NRC-Entergy 5
analysis.
6 Oh, actually, there's just one more 7
paragraph to this point. On may 18th, 2015, Mr. Pickett 8
stated to me it would be very difficult to perform a 9
verification of the content of these tanks.
10 Therefore, the NRC ignored this potential 11 of an additional flammable source that could contribute 12 to the severity of any incident. Apparently, risking 13 20 million residents is not worth inspecting the content 14 of the tank.
15 The NRC analysis does not account for the 16 potential for flammable contents contained within these 17 tanks. Why?
18 (Applause.)
19 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
20 MR. DORMAN: Yeah, I just wanted to note 21 I've been focused on the speakers as we go along. And 22 for this last speaker you may have noticed I was focused 23 on papers in front of me, because I'm following along 24 in the copy of this statement that Mr. Blanch provided 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 me before the meeting.
1 And I don't know if he's got other folks 2
lined up that we're going to get to before 9:40, but if 3
he doesn't, there are 11 more points that he has on here 4
and we will include that in the -- with the recording 5
and the transcript of this meeting.
6 So, if we don't get to that, these will be 7
available for you to see. I wanted to make that clear.
8 At this point off the top of my head I'm not 9
in a position to respond to that, but we will work to 10 respond to these as well as the further interactions 11 we'll have with Mr. Blanch on his petition.
12 MR. SPEAKER: If I could just add one point 13 to that, Mr. Dorman had mentioned earlier that some of 14 the assertions that were provided in Mr. Blanch's letter 15 contained assertions about impropriety on the NRC 16 staff.
17 So, that's something that we would intend 18 to provide to our Office of Inspector General so that 19 they can be made aware of that and look into some of the 20 issues that were provided in the letter. So, thank you 21 for informing us of that.
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Just to echo that 23 point again, my normal day job is regional counsel. I'm 24 in charge of interfacing with the Office of Inspector 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 General. I will make sure to relay this when I get back 1
to the office, Mr. Blanch's concerns regarding NRC staff 2
impropriety. So, that's my personal responsibility 3
and I'm vouching to you that that will happen.
4 Okay. Next up is Mr. Howard.
5 MR. BRENNAN: My name was called 6
previously, Matthew Brennan. Should I wait until the 7
end or --
8 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Did I -- I'm sorry, 9
sir. I don't think I called a Matthew Brennan.
10 MR. BRENNAN: Yeah, it was. I was -- I had 11 to take care of some personal business.
12 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: I'm sorry, sir, I 13 don't think you were called.
14 MR. BRENNAN: Yes, I was.
15 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Because I'm looking 16 at the list and I don't -- sorry for doing that with the 17 microphone. I don't see your name.
18 I'm sorry I don't see your name on here. I 19 apologize, but next up is Mr. Howard, followed by Ms.,
20 I think, Susan Heiter and then Ms. Ellen Weininger.
21 (Comments off mic.)
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. I'll 23 still follow up with my contact there just to see if they 24 have any questions.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 All right. Again, next up is Mr. Howard.
1 MR. HOWARD: Yes. My name is Kevin 2
Howard. I work at Indian Point. I've been working 3
there since '79.
4 The Fukushima earthquake, Japan's 5
earthquake hits me very personal. My daughter-in-law 6
and my three grandchildren were in Myoko at that time.
7 I found out about the tsunami on the web 8
when I was working at the plant. And everybody saw the 9
Myoko where the water came up and over.
10 I was very lucky that day. It took us 48 11 hours1.273148e-4 days <br />0.00306 hours <br />1.818783e-5 weeks <br />4.1855e-6 months <br /> to contact my daughter-in-law by her cousin that 12 was in Tokyo.
13 So, forgive me, because you guys jerk my 14 heart a little bit, but talking about the emergency plan 15 that Indian Point has instituted on all these counties, 16 I look at it as the Rockland County.
17 They had a box fire plant -- the plant 18 caught on fire about 15 years ago, 20 years ago. I was 19 working at the Point. It blacked out the sun with all 20 the smoke. And everybody that's here knows that.
21 What did they use for the emergency? How 22 did they contact the people? They used the emergency 23 control that Indian Point supplied them.
24 As in Westchester, there's only one 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 emergency control center in Westchester and Indian 1
Point has supplied it. Your government uses that for 2
your emergency and as in all the other counties.
3 So, you don't -- if you take away Indian 4
Point, you take away your emergency control centers, 5
because the -- yes, it is correct. You check it out.
6 And as for the politicians at Westchester, 7
they talk about Indian Point melting down, many, many 8
deaths. I open up the newspapers and I see airplanes 9
falling out of the sky.
10 I don't hear them talking about closing 11 down Westchester County Airport. That could fall on a 12 house. That could fall on a school more likely than 13 something happening at Indian Point.
14 So, as I said, I work at Indian Point. I 15 know the safety of Indian Point pretty much. I'll just 16 give you one more -- okay. I'm done.
17 (Applause.)
18 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Again, 19 next up is Ms. Susan -- I think her name is spelled 20 H-E-I-T-E-R. That's how I am reading these letters.
21 MS. LEITER: L-E-I-T-E-R.
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Sure. We'll go with 23 that. And then, again, Ellen --
24 MS. WEININGER: Weininger.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: There you go. Will 1
be -- will follow her, and then Mr. Richard Thomas.
2 Thank you.
3 MS. LEITER: I'd like to say that I am 4
really impressed with the sincerity of all the workers 5
and all the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. It just 6
doesn't seem like you've factored everything in 7
altogether, the folds and various things.
8 I heard a gentleman say that the New York 9
ISO has said we'd have rolling blackouts if Indian Point 10 closed.
11 I was just there a month ago and that's one 12 of the questions we asked them. And there would be no 13 rolling blackouts and there would be no lack of power 14 if Indian Point closed.
15 The 25 percent that Indian Point refers to 16 is 25 percent of their power, not 25 percent of New 17 York's power. And that's a very different thing.
18 (Applause.)
19 MS. LEITER: I believe the estimate is in 20 peak times that we use five to six percent of Indian 21 Point power for this area. So, I think that needs to 22 be corrected.
23 I don't think you can compare -- the people 24 who live and work there have their investment in it.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 And I quite understand that it's important to them and 1
they believe that it's safe, but we haven't factored in 2
all the possibilities.
3 There could be an earthquake. I know 4
during Sandy, Indian Point had no evacuation plan 5
whatsoever and it still ran. And I'm wondering if that 6
is legal.
7 You had no buses and no trains. Both the 8
mayor of New York stopped the trains. The county exec 9
Astorino stopped the buses. You had trees all over the 10 roads. You had actually zero evacuation possibility, 11 and yet Indian Point still ran.
12 My question is, is that really a safe thing 13 to do? Is that part of your rules? Thank you.
14 (Applause.)
15 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
16 MR. DORMAN: In response to your question, 17 we rely on FEMA with respect to the ability to offsite 18 evacuate. That's --
19 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Look, I recognize 20 that you may disagree with that, but --
21 MR. DORMAN: I understand the concern.
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: But, again, I please 23 ask you to respect each other's speaking time, including 24 that of the NRC. You're welcome to vocalize when it's 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 your turn to speak your disagreement.
1 And not to take up any more time --
2 MS. WEININGER: My name is Ellen 3
Weininger. One point before I continue Mr. Blanch's 4
statement, is that the NRC signed off on Entergy's 5
analysis which enabled FERC to move through the approval 6
process. And without that approval, that process may 7
not have been possible.
8 The Entergy and NRC analysis discusses the 9
possibility that the switchyard and the fuel oil supply 10 could be destroyed should a gas line rupture occur, 11 however, fail to assume that these two failures could 12 occur simultaneously even though they are located 13 within a hundred feet of each other.
14 What is the impact of the loss of the entire 15 switchyard's diesel oil storage tanks and the city water 16 tank?
17 Assuming this is a long-term event, what AC 18 power sources are available to cool the plant? What 19 specific training has been conducted for the local fire 20 departments and the onsite fire brigade to fight a gas 21 fire which may persist for many hours?
22 Will the first responders even be able to 23 approach the gas fire? Like the San Bruno explosion in 24 California, are there firefighting planes available to 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 deal with this massive fire?
1 What testing does the NRC impose on the 2
Department of Transportation for periodic maintenance 3
and pipe integrity and valve operability for gas line 4
isolation? Will redundant valves be required, or will 5
this decision be made by the DOT?
6 How does the NRC address the NRC 7
requirements for a single failure of the gas isolation 8
valves?
9 How does the NRC justify the use of the 10 Aloha computer program when it is specifically 11 prohibited for use by the United States EPA for this 12 pipeline configuration?
13 How does the NRC address its guidance for 14 the required 20-minute response times for valve 15 isolation?
16 The Turkey Point gas line analysis projects 17 a blast radius of 3,097 feet from a rupture of a 24-inch 18 gas line operating at 772 pounds per square inch while 19 the Indian Point analysis projects a blast radius of 20 about only 1100 feet from a 42-inch line operating at 21 850 pounds per square inch.
22 The same question applies to the disparity 23 in blast radius for Indian Point and Cove Point and the 24 nuclear facility in Eunice, New Mexico.
25
95 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 What testing does the NRC impose on Spectra 1
such that reasonable assurances provided to recognize 2
a line break given that there are multiple lines being 3
pressurized from the same compressor, and how does the 4
NRC assure the isolation of backflow from downstream 5
lines? Thank you.
6 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
7 (Applause.)
8 FACILITATOR KLUKAN:
Okay.
And 9
apparently I'm still holding the sign upside down. I 10 apologize. Mr. Richard Thomas is up next. He will be 11 followed by Ms. Ann Eagan and then Ms. Susan McDonnell 12 (phonetic).
13 MR. THOMAS: Thank you. There's been a 14 lot of discussion tonight on renewables. And just want 15 to point out that California, Germany and Japan each 16 have subtracted nuclear power from their generation mix 17 and have had much higher emissions and tenuous 18 reliability. So, I think that there's a lot to learn 19 particularly from the spikes in electricity prices.
20 The EIA comes to mind when it says that the 21 wholesale power price is increased by about 52 percent 22 because California is relying upon imported power. So, 23 that's something to be very wary of.
24 I'm just going to read a brief statement.
25
96 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Indian Point is essential as it provides 11 percent of 1
New York's electricity with virtually zero emissions.
2 It simply cannot be replaced with clean, 3
affordable and reliable community-based
- power, 4
- however, laudable, certain renewable or other 5
out-of-state and imported power projects may appear.
6 New York already has one of the cleanest 7
electricity generation portfolios in the nation with 8
55.4 percent of power coming from sources that have 9
practically zero emissions.
10 This includes nuclear power at 32.7 11 percent, hydro 18.3 percent, as well as wind and solar 12 amounting to four percent combined.
13 As a result, New York boasts the lowest per 14 capita carbon emissions of any state at 8.1 metric tons 15 per capita versus 17.3 metric tons on average from the 16 national standpoint.
17 Numerous independent government studies, 18 related studies, have determined that the premature 19 closure of Indian Point means degraded air quality as 20 there will be greater use especially in the short-term 21 of fossil fuels. In fact, closing Indian Point is the 22 equivalent of adding one million cars to the roads.
23 Electricity prices would rise. There 24 would be thousands of jobs lost, hundreds of millions 25
97 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 of dollars in lower annual tax revenue and degraded grid 1
reliability.
2 The US Nuclear Regulatory Commission has 3
consistently awarded Indian Point its highest safety 4
ratings since Entergy took ownership in 2001. And NRC 5
staff has recommended license renewal after the most 6
through evaluation in its history.
7 For these and other reasons the plant 8
should operate for another 20 years or more. Thank you 9
very much.
10 (Applause.)
11 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Okay.
12 Before we continue, I apologize for the interruption.
13 A young woman by the name of Aidan Ferris who has asked 14
-- who intends -- I'm just showing what list she's on.
15 Who intends to advocate against continued operation 16 would like to speak tonight and she is Number 26. We're 17 on Number 8.
18 So, if any individuals, Ken Fellermen 19 (phonetic), Vitala Simon (phonetic), Jaclynn Dressler 20 (phonetic), Annie Wilson, if any of those individuals 21 would like to trade places with Ms. Aidan --
22 (Comments off mic.)
23 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Michelle Solomon.
24 I'm reading the ones who are up next on the intend to 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 advocate against. So, if you're any of those 1
individuals and you would like to trade, you know, feel 2
free to donate your time to Ms. Ferris.
3
- And, again, I
apologize for the 4
interruption. But, again, we're now with Ms. Ann 5
Eagan. Thank you.
6 MS. EAGAN: Yes. I am from New York City.
7 I have lived there for many, many years and I'm very fond 8
of it. And I'm very fond of the people there. So, I'd 9
like to address my remarks to actually an announcement.
10 We have a group called Shut Down Indian 11 Point Now. And I want to give you the contacts there 12 for the people of New York City.
13 We would like to come into your 14 neighborhood and have an evening addressing this issue.
15 We have done it in
- many, many 16 neighborhoods, but I think it would take 20 years to get 17 to every neighborhood.
18 So, if anybody lives in New York City and 19 you have some part of your area that we could come, a 20 church, school, whatever and have an evening similar to 21 this, similar, please get in touch with me, Ann, at 22 bronxgreens1@gmail.com.
23 Also, I just want to let you all know, you 24 New York City people, that we have an introduction into 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 the city council, our city council, which we just got 1
the other day at the city council meeting.
2 So, we need to get a whole bunch of people 3
on that. We only have the three or four or five that 4
were there in the room when we proposed this. So, if 5
you would have your council people support 0694, which 6
is shutting down Indian Point.
7 So, I think that's enough for the moment to 8
remember our -- you can get in touch with me at 9
annbronxgreens1@gmail.com. Thank you.
10 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. I 11 appreciate that. Just so you know, are you releasing 12 that email address to be put on the public website?
13 MS. EAGAN: Yes.
14 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. I just wanted 15 to verify that.
16 (Applause.)
17 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. Next up we 18 have Ms. Susan McDonnell. And she will be followed by 19 Mr. John Ravitz.
20 (Pause.)
21 MS. McDONNELL: Thank you. two things I 22 want to say -- sorry. I have one mission. I want to 23 finish Paul's comments, and then I have something I'd 24 like to add to it, please.
25
100 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 The tenth issue that Paul wanted, Paul 1
Blanch wanted brought up was the Entergy analysis 2
determined the gas explosion was a design basis evident, 3
DBE, while the NRC's analysis was that it was not a DBE.
4 Why the significant and critical difference, and whose 5
analysis rules?
6 The NRC references -- this is the next one.
7 The NRC references the FERC, the EPA and DOT handbook 8
on chemical analysis for its probability calculations.
9 The NRC cites that the probability of a gas 10 explosion is reduced by the factor of 100. Yet, this 11 number could not be located within this reference.
12 The NRC analysis also states that one 13 percent of the accidents result in a complete pipe 14 break, and five percent ignition rate.
15 Why is the NRC using statistics not 16 referenced in the cited reference? There is no basis 17 for these assumptions.
18 The present 26 and 30 and 60-plus-year-old 19 gas lines are located much closer to vital structures.
20 Yet, Entergy and the NRC have determined that the risk 21 of explosion of these lines to be not feasible. Meaning 22 the failure is actually lower than the new proposed 23 42-inch line.
24 How is it possible that these old lines have 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 a zero failure probability with no nuclear maintenance 1
requirements whereas the new 42-inch lines have a higher 2
probability of failure? This does not make sense.
3 That's the end of Paul's comments. And as 4
I read through these comments and have listened, I've 5
heard at least the NRC, Entergy, FERC, the EPA, DOT and 6
New York State.
7 Do you guys eve sit down and talk to one 8
another in the same room and dish out, you know, dish 9
over some of these problems? I'll provide lunch any 10 time you want.
11 (Applause.)
12 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. And, 13 again, next is Mr. John Ravitz, R-A-V-I-T-Z. He will 14 be followed by Mr. Don Rascoff (phonetic), and then Mr.
15 Ken Fellerman.
16 MR. RAVITZ: Thank you. Good evening.
17 I'm John Ravitz. I'm the executive vice president and 18 chief operating officer for the Business Council of 19 Westchester.
20 We are the county's largest business 21 membership organization ranging from the 22 multi-international companies that call Westchester 23 home, to all the universities and hospitals, to 24 professional service, mid-size business, over a hundred 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 non-for-profits and solo entrepreneurs.
1 As an organization focused on supporting 2
the overall economic health of the Westchester 3
community, the Business Council of Westchester strongly 4
believes that Indian Point is a critical component for 5
the reliability and affordability of power in the State 6
of New York. Even more so, it is a major contributor 7
to the local economy of Westchester County.
8 The Business Council of Westchester 9
commissioned a report titled "An Assessment of Energy 10 Needs in Westchester County" that found that the closing 11 of Indian Point would have a catastrophic impact on the 12 region resulting in higher electric rates for 13 businesses and consumers, more power outages, a rapid 14 rise in carbon emissions and a devastating blow to the 15 Westchester economy.
16 The report stated that the closure of 17 Indian Point would result in the elimination of 3300 18 local jobs, $75 million in revenue funding for the local 19 services and millions more in economic development 20 resources.
21 While the economic and environmental 22 arguments in favor of Indian Point are clear, the 23 plant's continued safe operations transcends all 24 considerations.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Our organization supports the Nuclear 1
Regulatory Commission's stringent oversight of plant 2
operations and its commitment to ensuring the highest 3
level of safety for all of our country's nuclear power 4
plants.
5 As the former chief executive officer of 6
the American Red Cross of Westchester County, I have 7
toured the plant on numerous occasions and participated 8
in safety and preparedness drills and exercises.
9 The Business Council of Westchester 10 believes that Entergy has a strong commitment in 11 ensuring safety standards that are maintained and 12 exceeded by more than the 1,000 employees at the plant's 13 facility.
14 Our organization will continue to support 15 your critical role to ensure the highest standards of 16 safety are observed and maintained at Indian Point.
17 In
- addition, as outlined in the 18 above-mentioned compelling reasons, we will continue to 19 advocate for the license renewal of the facility.
20 On behalf of the Business Council of 21 Westchester's 1,000 members, we thank you for your 22 consideration.
23 (Applause.)
24 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 MS. FERRIS: (Speaking off mic.) Hi.
1 I'm Aidan Ferris and I would like to make myself known 2
because I'm from Earth Guardians New York and I think 3
that I'm probably one of the youngest people in this 4
room.
5 And I am really sorry that I'm interrupting 6
in this way, but I think it's really important that the 7
youth are represented in this decision.
8 (Applause.)
9 MS. FERRIS: So, someone please trade 10 their spot with me and --
11 (Comments off mic.)
12 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Yeah. Okay. So, 13 I'm going to -- we haven't had anyone -- and I'm not --
14 Ms. Aidan, I don't know how old she is, but I'm assuming 15 she's younger. So, I'm going to take -- she's very far 16 back on the list.
17 We haven't had -- the whole purpose of me 18 building the speaker order in which I did was to build 19 in diversity.
20 Would there be any objection to breaking 21 from the list to have her speak? Is that okay? Do I 22 have any --
23 (Comments off record.)
24 (Speaking over each other.)
25
105 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: One second.
1 (Pause.)
2 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Oh, I apologize.
3 Mr. Ken Fellerman is up next. Would Mr. Fellerman be 4
willing to trade with Ms. Aidan -- or Ms. Ferris?
5 (Comments off record.)
6 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: We already have -- we 7
have a solution. Bravo to you, sir. So, you're up, Ms.
8 Ferris.
9 MS. FERRIS: Thank you, everyone.
10 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Again, thank you.
11 You get a gold star, sir, Mr. Fellerman, at the end of 12 the evening.
13 MS. FERRIS: Thank you so much. Hi. My 14 name is Aidan Ferris and I am here to represent Earth 15 Guardians New York, a chapter of an extensive network 16 of youth around the world who are rising up to take 17 action on climate change.
18 Our mission is to protect the earth, air, 19 water and atmosphere so that our generation and those 20 to come will inherit a healthy, just and sustainable 21 planet.
22 I'm here tonight because our future is 23 threatened. We are in the midst of a global climate 24 crisis that is causing the health of every single 25
106 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 ecosystem on this planet to decline.
1 Each and every day we hear more about the 2
degradation of our planet earth, garbage patches larger 3
than the size of Texas and our oceans, astronomical CO2 4
levels, nuclear waste still leaking from Fukushima.
5 The list goes on and nearly two weeks ago 6
there was a third transformer failure in the last eight 7
years at the nuclear power plant -- or the Indian Point 8
power plant where thousands of gallons of oil were 9
released into the Hudson.
10 Events like this make it more clear than 11 ever that if the plant is not closed, a path towards 12 nuclear disaster is inevitable.
13 Spectra's AIM
- project, the 42-inch 14 pipeline that would carry high-pressure fracked gas 15 nearly 105 feet from the already questionable plant only 16 intensifies the likelihood of another Fukushima here in 17 New York.
18 We, the youth, are not only looking at no 19 jobs for our future. We are looking at not having a 20 future at all.
21 Is this the type of future that we want to 22 give the generations to come, one that's riddled with 23 toxic chemicals in our water and threat of nuclear 24 destruction hanging over our head, or do we want to help 25
107 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 a -- or create a more sustainable world built on 1
renewable energy like wind and solar that could very 2
well be the backbone of our economies?
3 The youth are expected to have faith and 4
trust that appointed elected officials will help make 5
decisions that will ensure the health and safety of our 6
communities now and in the future.
7 Over and over again this has not been true 8
and youth all over the world are beginning to question 9
who the leaders really are. The elected officials, or 10 the people?
11 Just last fall -- well, hold on. Thousands 12 of people around the world have signed a pledge to be 13 a climate leader that my 12-year-old friend initiated.
14 Thousands of people.
15 So, the question is here: Will the US NRC 16 and other elected officials that are present here 17 tonight sign this pledge and be the leaders your 18 grandchildren would want you to be?
19 Will you truly protect the people and the 20 environment like it says on your signs? And the only 21 way to do that is to close the Indian Point and to halt 22 the construction.
23 Please consider signing this pledge. And 24 anyone else in the audience who would like to do so as 25
108 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 well. Thank you.
1 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
2 (Applause.)
3 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay.
4 (Comments off record.)
5 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: If you would like to 6
do so, please just indicate when I call your name or when 7
it's your turn to speak.
8 Okay. Next up is Mr. Paul Steidler. He 9
will be followed by Mr. Harry Goldenberg (phonetic), []
10 and then Ms. Vitala Simon -- or it might be Mr. Vitala.
11 I'm sorry.
12 Either way. So, again, next up is Mr. Paul 13 Steidler.
14 MR. STEIDLER: Yes. Thank you. I just 15 have a -- I'm with the New York Affordable, Reliable 16 Electricity Alliance. I just have a brief statement 17 here from one of our members, Steve Ludwigson, business 18 manager of the Boilermakers Local Lodge Number 5.
19 And it follows: Indian Point is safe and 20 an important partner to the Boilermakers. From working 21 in the plant and seeing the commitment to safe 22 practices, my members and I are confident about 23 reporting to work at Indian Point. We would never 24 jeopardize the health or safety of our members or our 25
109 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 families.
1 Indian Point also is essential to keeping 2
and growing jobs in Westchester and across the state.
3 Thank you very much.
4 (Applause.)
5 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Mr.
6 Harry Goldenberg. It looks like it might be B-E-R-G.
7 Is Harry still in the room. G-O-L-D-E-N-B-O-R-G or 8
E-R-G. One of the two. He doesn't have an 9
affiliation.
10 (Comments off mic.)
11 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. Next up is --
12 (Comments off mic.)
13 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Look. In fairness 14 to the people who signed up, Ms. Simon or Mr. Simon, I 15 don't know based on your first name, and I apologize 16 again, you -- it's your turn to speak. If you'd like 17 to donate it to the Raging Grannies as they've 18 requested, it's up to you.
19 MS. SIMON: I've never spoken at one of 20 these meetings before. So, I want to do it. I've been 21 waiting my turn.
22 I'm a yoga teacher. I've been teaching 23 yoga for over 25 years here in Westchester and I'm 24 sharing with you today from what I refer to as the heart 25
110 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 of life and on behalf of the many beings who do not have 1
human voices.
2 I've dedicated my life to learning how to 3
protect life. I feel your goodwill. I feel 4
everybody's goodwill, and yet you appear to be making 5
choices that are destructive to life.
6 I'm very concerned by what I would refer to 7
as self-disconnectedness and blind greed that will lead 8
to the destruction of thousands and thousands of lives, 9
humans, land, air and water creatures and destruction 10 of the fabric of life itself.
11 You look like really good people. Please 12 look inside your own hearts and in your own consciences.
13 Are we making good decisions? What is your moral 14 compass? How do you make these decisions morally, not 15 financially? Morally, ethically, spiritually. What 16 matters? What really matters?
17 We will stop you from destroying our 18 country, our planet, our air, our water and the lives 19 of all living beings. This old way of doing things will 20 not win.
21 Please don't carry this destructive burden 22 into your own souls. Think deeply about what you're 23 doing. Return to your own deep inner knowing.
24 Let us all let go of our massive death wish 25
111 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 and join together. Hold someone's hand right now.
1 Just reach out. Hold someone's hand and create a world 2
together of vitality, cooperation with one another and 3
a deep respect for the sanctity of our earth and her many 4
life-forms.
5 Close Indian Point, stop the Algonquin 6
pipeline expansion and create jobs with renewable 7
energy projects that you can administer. You can be the 8
administrators. You can have a new job, too.
9 (Applause.)
10 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you for your 11 comments.
12 MS. SIMON: Blessed be the holy one.
13 Blessed be the light. Thank you.
14 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
15 (Applause.)
16 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. We have 17 Marissa Pivot (phonetic), the president of the 18 Westchester County Association. And then following 19 her will be Mark Johnson. And then Jaclynn Dressler.
20 So, again, Marissa Pivot is up next.
21 (Comments off record.)
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. Marissa is 23 not here. Mark Johnson.
24 MR. JOHNSON: I will donate my time to the 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Raging Grannies.
1 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay.
2 (Applause.)
3 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: We have two gold 4
stars that I will either draw for you or some way create.
5 So, thank you. So, again --
6 (Comments off the record.)
7 MS. ARMER: They need time to walk all the 8
way over here. My name is Sunny Armer. I'm here with 9
Raging Grannies WOWW based in Westchester, Raging 10 Grannies and their daughters New York City Metro Raging 11 Grannies who drove all the way up here.
12 You can see our collective age. I did not 13 exaggerate. Here is dear, dear Lillian who just had her 14 hundredth birthday in April.
15 (Applause.)
16 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Happy birthday, 17 Lillian.
18 MS. ARMER: And she's here because she 19 cares about all of our children and grandchildren.
20 MS. SPEAKER: And great-grandchildren.
21 MS. ARMER: And, yes, we have several 22 great-grandmothers here.
23 MS. SPEAKER: She has seven.
24 MS. ARMER: Seven. Whoa. We dedicate 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 this song to courageous workers who are still trying to 1
keep the Fukushima nuclear plant from melting down 2
further. And we remind you that we in New York are in 3
danger by the Indian Point power plant located within 4
19 miles of this very spot.
5 Okay. Oh, Entergy. One, two, three.
6 Oh, Entergy says not to worry, 'cause earthquakes can't 7
happen here, no. But under the Indian Point plant lurks 8
a fault zone that's called Ramapo.
9 Look at routes for evacuation if Indian 10 Point should melt down. Don't (inaudible) those roads 11 for escapin' and learn you can't get out of town.
12 Shut it down, shut it down, Indian Point is 13 unsafe, we know. Shut it down, shut it down, Indian 14 Point has to go.
15 The nuclear waste that is stored here, is 16 cause for us all to unite. If only we knew how to do 17 it, we'd shut Indian Point down tonight.
18 Oh, NRC rule as you ought to. You know you 19 should issue a ban, to save New York State from such 20 horrors, as the tragic events in Japan.
21 What are we going to do? Shut it down, shut 22 it down. Indian Point is unsafe, we know. Shut it 23 down, shut it down. Indian Point has to go. Right now.
24 We have two minutes. One more song.
25
114 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: No, no, no, no, no.
1 We're at two minutes 47 seconds. I appreciate your 2
song.
3 MS. ARMER: It says two minutes. You lie.
4 Sorry.
5 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: I apologize if my 6
time-keeping is inaccurate, but right now we're at three 7
minutes. Thank you.
8 Next up is Jaclynn Dressler. She will be 9
followed by -- she will be followed by Deborah Maloney 10 (phonetic).
11 MS. DRESSLER: Good evening. Thank you 12 for the opportunity to speak. I'm speaking on behalf 13 of David Amram, who is a wonderful musician and 14 activist.
15 He says, I wish I could be with everyone 16 tonight to thank all of you for coming to show concern 17 for all of us here in the beautiful state of New York 18 to have a safe environment for our friends and families.
19 That includes the families of all members 20 of the Commission who are gracious enough to allow us 21 our First Amendment right to speak out publicly. And 22 also know that we share our concern for all of the 23 families of the employees who work at Indian Point to 24 help provide us with the electricity by the hard work 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 that they do every day.
1 As a union member for 65 years of the 2
American Federation of Musicians, I have firsthand 3
knowledge of the rights of working people to have job 4
security, but the current situation at Indian Point is 5
now beyond being a political issue and has nothing to 6
do with gender, class, race or demographics of any kind 7
since death by nuclear radiation is an equal opportunity 8
destroyer.
9 With all respect to Dr. Kevorkian, he was 10 requested to dispense his services by those who wish to 11 terminate their lives.
12 To the best of my knowledge, the 30 million 13 people who will suffer a quick death or a slow death by 14 radiation poisoning have not requested anyone to help 15 them to commit suicide.
16 So, we do not want the people who are in 17 charge of Indian Point to skip the necessity of mass 18 mailings and press releases saying, we are terribly 19 sorry and extend our condolences to all the families and 20 their loved ones who have perished or been forced to 21 abandon their homes due to an untimely accident.
22 We are forming a study group to make sure 23 that this will not occur in the future. There will be 24 no future for 30 million people, including those lucky 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 few who may survive, except for them to look at 1
photographs of what the Greater New York Hudson Valley 2
and New York City used to look like before it became a 3
wasteland.
4 After 30 years of bringing back the Hudson 5
River to life and raising a new generation of young 6
people who are concerned about the environment and 7
restoring an old-fashioned sense of community and 8
responsibility for their children and future 9
generations to come, we owe it to our present and future 10 generations to display common sense.
11 We can all work together to find every 12 employee at the plant at Indian Point a job that pays 13 the equivalent of what they earn at the moment.
14 We can assure the stockholders that finding 15 new ways of providing power will actually be more 16 beneficial to them than having our beloved Hudson Valley 17 become a wasteland. After a nuclear meltdown, their 18 current stock will be worth zero.
19 It is time to put into practice the same 20 humanistic effort we extend towards others to the 30 21 million people whose lives are in danger here at home.
22 The Office of Homeland Security cannot save 23 us if we commit terrorism ourselves to our community by 24 ignoring the obvious and end up annihilating ourselves.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 Let's all act now and do the right thing.
1 Respectfully yours, David Amram.
2 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you.
3 (Applause.)
4 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. So, it is by 5
my watch, 9:34. So, I am going to now call up our last 6
three speakers. And they are Ms. Deborah Maloney -- is 7
she here? Okay. Then we're going to move on.
8 So, our next three will be Mr. John 9
Montgomery -- are you in the room? John Montgomery.
10 Okay. We're skipping forward again.
11 Ann Wilson -- Annie Wilson. Okay. So, 12 you'll be number one. Curtis Pratten (phonetic).
13 Curtis Pratten. Is he in the room? Okay. Moving 14 forward again.
15 Joe Ryan?
16 MR. RYAN: That's me.
17 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. So, there's 18 our second. And our last will be Jocelyn Decrescendo 19 (phonetic). Okay. All right. So, those are our last 20 three speakers.
21 MS. WILSON: Hi. Good evening. I'm 22 Annie Wilson. I work with the New York Environmental 23 Law and Justice Project in New York City.
24 And I have a few comments relating to the 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 viability of the no evacuation plan and whatever event 1
could take place there would put 20 million people that 2
live and work within the 50-mile radius at risk.
3 In New York City, we rely on the Kensico 4
Reservoir and the ongoing operation of Indian Plant is 5
a persistent threat.
6 So, today I was asked to speak on behalf of 7
George Potanovic of the Stony Point Action Committee for 8
the Environment, an organization that's been around for 9
about 25 years.
10 And I will read his statement for today 11 relating to the oil spill and its impact on the Hudson 12 River.
13 The Indian Point Unit 3 transformer 14 explosion released several thousand gallons of 15 transformer oil into the Hudson River on Saturday, May 16 9th.
17 This was the third failure of an Indian 18 Point transformer in eight years. And as Sunday's 19 Journal News editorial so accurately states, the 20 accident raises a myriad of concerns for neighbors, 21 environmental groups and politicians.
22 On Saturday and Sunday, May 16th and 17th, 23 I took a walking tour along the Hudson River shoreline 24 in North Rockland. I began my walk at the Rockland 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 County Haverstraw Bay Park and was extremely surprised 1
to see one week after the Indian Point oil spill that 2
an oil film is still covering much of the shoreline of 3
our Rockland County Haverstraw Bay Park.
4 Going further north I witnessed floating 5
oil slicks along Grassy Point Road in Stony Point and 6
at the Stony Point Town Riverfront Park.
7 I also noticed a dead mallard duck along the 8
beach of the Grassy Point seawall. Was this mallard 9
duck killed by the affects of the oil? I cannot 10 determine that for certain. However, I did report it 11 to Riverkeeper and contacted Stony Point councilman 12 Karl Javenes earlier that Saturday morning and he 13 agreed to do his own assessment of the town waterfront.
14 Speaking with Councilman Javenes later 15 that day, he confirmed that pockets of oil pollution 16 currently exist on the Stony Point Riverfront Town Park 17 and along the private marina businesses on Beach Road.
18 It is my understanding that Entergy was 19 supposed to hire a company to clean up the shoreline, 20 that it followed up immediately after its oil spill.
21 And if that is the case, who is looking out for Rockland 22 County? Specifically our county and town parks and 23 private waterfront properties.
24 I'll flip forward. The DEC commissioner 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 must be made aware that Rockland County is in need of 1
a more complete environmental assessment of the oil 2
pollution that Indian Point spewed along Rockland 3
County's western banks of the Hudson River.
4 We need answers as to how and when Entergy 5
will clean up its pollution of the affected properties 6
in the town of Stony Point, town of Haverstraw and the 7
Rockland County Haverstraw Bay Park.
8 I have here photographs that we'll submit 9
for the record. One of the photographs -- and the other 10 one of Indian Point.
11 So, the question is, who will clean up North 12 Rockland's shoreline from the Indian Point oil spill?
13 Thank you.
14 (Applause.)
15 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. All 16 right. Next up is Mr. Joe Ryan.
17 MR. RYAN: I don't know how you're doing 18 it. I mean, I needed a bathroom break about an hour ago.
19 My name is Joe Ryan. I'm an active 20 firefighter in Verplanck. We're first in at Indian 21 Point.
22 I didn't know that fire hats were the dress 23 of tonight. I dressed like this in respect for you, but 24 I could gladly show you real fire helmets.
25
121 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 The bottom line is I moved to this area in 1
'69. I taught for 32 years in Hendrick Hudson School 2
District, where the plant is. I've been a Verplanck 3
firefighter since 1974. We're first in.
4 I have trained with those people. I have 5
worked with those people. That is a safe plant. I 6
built my new home in Buchanan. And, by the way, I did 7
teach Theresa. So, the point is the Point. The plant 8
is safe. It's secure.
9 The bottom line is people also have to be 10 involved in their own health and safety and we don't need 11 plastic fire helmets. We need real ones. And we need 12 people to volunteer to serve and protect their 13 communities. And we have a responsibility. And do we 14 respond to disaster? You're darn right we did.
15 When we had 9/11, what happened is the fire 16 companies around here within the first 24 hours2.777778e-4 days <br />0.00667 hours <br />3.968254e-5 weeks <br />9.132e-6 months <br /> were 17 there. So, you have to take care of your own.
18 I thank you for serving on the Commission.
19 I know you didn't park your brains at the door. And I 20 thank you for your patience. Good night.
21 (Applause.)
22 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Thank you. Okay.
23 So, for our last speaker this evening because it is 9:40 24 right now, we received a request, the NRC received a 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 request for reasonable accommodation due to this 1
person's disability.
2 She asked that due to a brain injury that 3
we allow her to give a video presentation as opposed to 4
speaking tonight.
5 The NRC granted that accommodation. And 6
so, I am going to show this video which is under three 7
minutes in length.
8 (Video played.)
9 (Applause.)
10 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. Thank you.
11 So, once again we're at the end of our meeting. Our 12 regional administrator Dan Dorman would like to give a 13 closing statement.
14 And then I'll give you some logistics for 15 feedback and if you'd like to provide written comments.
16 So, I'll turn it over to Dan.
17 MR. DORMAN: Thank you, Brett. And thank 18 all of you and all the folks who haven't been able to 19 bear with us for the duration.
20 I just wanted to note that I know we haven't 21 gotten to everybody who came and I want to thank everyone 22 for how many people we were able to hear from.
23 We do have the written statement that Mr.
24 Blanch provided. We will take that back and do 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 responses to those questions that is more thoughtful 1
than we could do in this context.
2 We will be -- we need to vacate this room 3
and give it back to the Marriott, but I and my staff will 4
remain out in the lobby out here if there are folks who 5
still want to come up and share things with us.
6 This video, Mr. Blanch's statement, I think 7
Brett received a couple other items, will be included 8
as part of the record of this meeting.
9 So, I just wanted to thank everyone again 10 and we will be available outside at the end. And I'll 11 turn it back to Brett.
12 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: Okay. Thank you.
13 (Speaking off mic.)
14 MS. SPEAKER: We want the answers. 37 15 questions. We've never gotten answers. Fourth time 16 here.
17 (Speaking off mic.)
18 MR. DORMAN: Okay. Yeah, I understand.
19 I appreciate that and I'm not sure I can give you a hard 20 and fast date, but we will take those -- so, you gave 21 those to Brett in writing as well?
22 MS. SPEAKER: Fourth time.
23 MR. DORMAN: I understand fourth time.
24 Heard that.
25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 (Speaking off mic.)
1 MR. DORMAN: Okay. I got that. We will 2
work on responding to those questions within the next 3
few months.
4 MS. SPEAKER: Thank you.
5 MR. SPEAKER: Can you post them all on the 6
public site (speaking off mic).
7 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: I promise to do this 8
is that we will post everything we've received here 9
tonight in writing. We're also going to upload the 10 video. We'll figure all that out.
11 MS. SPEAKER: Where?
12 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: On the NRC website.
13 I can't tell you where specifically.
14 MS. SPEAKER: What's the address?
15 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: On the NRC's website.
16 (Speaking off mic.)
17 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: I've asked you to be 18 respectful and I'm trying to give you the details that 19 you're looking for here so you can find this 20 information. So, just please let me conclude.
21 It will be posted to the NRC website, 22 www.nrc.gov. It will be at some subsite within that.
23 It will also be probably hosted within ADAMS, because 24 that's our official records repository, but it will also 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 be linked, hyperlinked on the NRC website.
1 I can't say specifically where. I assume 2
it will be tied to the meeting announcement where that 3
is located on the website, which I think is a reasonable 4
way of, you know, linking it.
5 (Comments off mic.)
6 FACILITATOR KLUKAN: I will be happy to do 7
that.
8 Okay. Again, for those who didn't have an 9
opportunity to speak tonight, the NRC staff will linger 10 in the hallway outside if you'd like to have some 11 individual conversations.
12 You can also feel free to submit written 13 comments. There are yellow comment cards out there.
14 Any written comment card submitted to us this evening 15 or left here this evening will be included as part of 16 the record.
17 And, again, I thank you for your 18 participation tonight and that you were respectful with 19 each other.
20 So, with that, I'm going to conclude the 21 meeting. Thank you.
22 (Applause.)
23 (Whereupon, at this time the United States 24 of America, Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Indian Point 25
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(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 (202) 234-4433 2015 Annual Assessment meeting was concluded.)
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