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| number = ML17163A424
| number = ML17163A424
| issue date = 05/25/2017
| issue date = 05/25/2017
| title = Transcript of Vermont Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens' Advisory Panel Meeting, May 25, 2017, Brattleboro, Vt, Pages 1-148
| title = Transcript of Vermont Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens' Advisory Panel Meeting, May 25, 2017, Brattleboro, VT, Pages 1-148
| author name =  
| author name =  
| author affiliation = NRC/NMSS
| author affiliation = NRC/NMSS
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| document type = Meeting Transcript
| document type = Meeting Transcript
| page count = 149
| page count = 149
| revision = 0
}}
}}
=Text=
{{#Wiki_filter:Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
==Title:==
Vermont Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens' Advisory Panel Meeting Docket Number:    (n/a)
Location:        Brattleboro, Vermont Date:            Thursday, May 25, 2017 Work Order No.:  NRC-3086                          Pages 1-148 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1                    UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2                  NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3                                + + + + +
4            VERMONT NUCLEAR DECOMMISSIONING CITIZENS' 5                      ADVISORY PANEL MEETING 6                                + + + + +
7                                  THURSDAY 8                              MAY 25, 2017 9                                + + + + +
10                        BRATTLEBORO, VERMONT 11                  The Public Meeting was convened at 109 12 Sunny Acres in Brattleboro, Vermont at 6:00 p.m. by 13 Kate        O'Connor,    Chair      of    the      Vermont  Nuclear 14 Decommissioning Citizens Advisory Panel, presiding 15 PRESENT:
16 Chris Campany, Windham Regional Commission.
17 David Deen, Citizen Member 18 Mark MacDonald, Vermont Senate Representative 19 Steve Skibniowsky, Town of Vernon 20 David Andrews, International Brotherhood of Electrical 21            Workers 22 Jim Tonkovich, Vermont Senate Representative 23 Martin Langeveld, Citizen Member 24 Jim Matteau, Citizen Member 25 Derrik Jordan, Citizen Member NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 Bill Irwin, Department of Health Radiological and 2            Toxicological Sciences.
3 Riley Allen, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont Department 4            of Public Service.
5 Mike McKenney, Entergy.
6 Jack Boyle, Entergy 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1                    P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2                                                          (6:05 p.m.)
3                CHAIR    O'CONNOR:          Good    evening.      Good 4 evening, everybody.        My name is Kate O'Connor, and I 5 am the chair of the Vermont Nuclear Decommissioning 6 Citizens Advisory Panel, which is the meeting you are 7 all at tonight.        And I want to officially call to 8 order the May 25th, 2017, meeting of the Panel.
9                What I'm going to do for some of you who 10 may -- this may be your first meeting, I want to 11 explain a little bit about what the Panel is and what 12 we do. We are a nineteen-member panel that was formed 13 by the Legislature back in 2014 when Entergy announced 14 that they would be closing Vermont Yankee.                  We have 15 been meeting since September 2014.                And in that time, 16 I think we've had twenty-five or twenty-six meetings.
17 So we've been meeting pretty much on a regular basis.
18                The  Legislature        gave      us  a  series      of 19 duties, but the one that is really most relevant for 20 tonight is that we are -- we are to serve as a conduit 21 for public information and education, and to encourage 22 community involvement in all matters related to the 23 decommissioning of Vermont Yankee.
24                Before I go over the agenda, I want all of 25 our Panel members to introduce themselves.                We have a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 diverse group. I was appointed by Governor Shumlin as 2 a citizen member of the Panel.
3                So Chris, do you want to start that on 4 your end?
5                MR. CAMPANY:          Chris      Campany,  Windham 6 Regional Commission.
7                MR. DEEN:      David Deen, citizen appointee 8 by the Speaker of the House.
9                SENATOR      MACDONALD:              Mark  MacDonald, 10 Representative Vermont Senate and on this Panel.
11                MR. SKIBNIOWSKY:          Good evening; I'm Steve 12 Skibniowsky,    representing        the      Town    of Vernon      and 13 nominated by the Vernon Board of Selectmen.
14                MR. ANDREWS: David Andrews, representing 15 the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers 16 and representing the past and present employees of 17 Vermont Yankee.
18                MR. TONKOVICH:            Jim Tonkovich, I'm an 19 appointee from the Senate President Pro Temp.
20                MR. LANGEVELD:            Martin      Langeveld,      a 21 citizen member appointed by Governor Shumlin.
22                MR. MATTEAU:        Jim Matteau, also a citizen 23 member appointed by the President Pro Temp.
24                MR. JORDAN: Derrik Jordan, citizen member 25 appointed by Shap Smith.
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5 1                    DR. IRWIN:      Bill Irwin, representing the 2 Agency of Human Services.                I work for the Department 3 of Health Radiological and Toxicological Sciences.
4                    MR. ALLEN:        And I'm Riley Allen.            I'm 5 Deputy        Commissioner    of    the    Vermont  Department      of 6 Public Service.        I'm here sitting in for Commissioner 7 June Tierney, who is out of the country.
8                    MR. MCKENNEY:          Good evening. I'm Mike 9 McKenney.        I'm representing Entergy.
10                    MR. BOYLE: Good evening. I'm Jack Boyle, 11 also representing Entergy.                I'm the Decommissioning 12 Director at Vermont Yankee.
13                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          We're going to have you 14 guys -- you folks introduce yourselves in a minute.
15                    This is an official meeting of our Panel.
16 And tonight, we have our special guests which are 17 representatives from Entergy and NorthStar and the 18 NRC.        And they're going to be, as you know, on the 19 agenda for later.
20                    The representatives from the NRC are here 21 to take public comment on the license transfer, which 22 is the sale from Entergy to NorthStar, and NorthStar's 23 post-shutdown decommissioning activities report, which 24 is called the P.S.D.A.R., which for all of you who 25 don't know what that is, it's the decommissioning plan NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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6 1 which includes the cost estimates for decommissioning 2 the plant.
3                    The NRC is required to take public comment 4 on the license transfer, but they are not required to 5 hold a public meeting.              But they have agreed to come 6 here tonight.          The Panel invited them to come, as did 7 Vermont's congressional delegation.                        And I want to 8 thank        their    representatives          of      Senator  Sanders, 9 Congressmen Welch, and Senator Leahy here tonight. We 10 have Haley Pero from Senator Sanders' office, Tom 11 Berry from Senator Leahy's office, and George Twigg 12 from Congressman Welch.                And they can all wave.
13                    So we really appreciate -- we appreciate 14 their help.            And I also want to again thank the 15 Nuclear        Regulatory      Commission          for  accepting      our 16 invitation to come here this evening.
17                    Just so everybody knows, when we get to 18 the comment period all of the converse -- comments are 19 going        to  be  recorded      by    the      Nuclear  Regulatory 20 Commission and entered into the public record. If you 21 don't        want  to  comment      this    evening,      there    is    a 22 mechanism that you can do so through the NRC website.
23 And the comment period is going to be through June 24 23rd.
25                    And what we're going to do is put the link NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 on how to do it on the State of Vermont's website.
2 And if no one minds, if you signed up, I will send you 3 how to get that.      So if you're shy and you don't want 4 to make a comment tonight, you have another close to 5 a month to do so.
6                The first half of the meeting, we're going 7 to have Entergy and NorthStar talk to us about the 8 license transfer and the post-shutdown decommissioning 9 activities report.        And then the NRC is going to walk 10 us through the process that they used to decide 11 whether they're going to accept the license transfer 12 application.
13                One  of    the    things      I  want to    remind 14 everybody is that this is an NDCAP meeting and we're 15 a Panel that was created by the state, which means we 16 follow all Open Meeting Laws and we follow Robert's 17 Rules of Order and a charter that we all developed two 18 and a half years ago.
19                So what I would ask is that everybody sort 20 of respect how we run our meetings.                  They've gone 21 smoothly in the past, so I'm hoping that they will go 22 smoothly tonight.        And I think we're going to start 23 what we normally do at -- at our meetings, Joe Lynch, 24 who is the Senior Government Affairs Manager, gives us 25 an update on the decommissioning of the plant.
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8 1                    So for those of you who have been here 2 before, this will be like the next chapter or whatever 3 in the book.        For some of you, this may be the first 4 time that you hear a decommissioning report from Joe.
5 And everything that -- the presentations that Joe 6 gives are on -- the Entergy has a website, V Y 7 decommissioning          dot    com.        So      if  you're    really 8 intrigued and want to watch everything that's happened 9 before -- or see everything that's happened before you 10 can easily catch up with that.
11                    So I guess we'll turn it over to Joe.
12                    MR. LYNCH:      Thank you, Kate.
13                    Next slide, please.
14                    As Kate has mentioned, my name is Joe 15 Lynch.        I'm a Senior Government Affairs Manager for 16 Entergy Vermont Yankee. I'm going to provide you with 17 a brief update on the status of decommissioning, the 18 decommissioning trust fund, and some of the activities 19 that we have moving towards the transaction.
20                    Next slide, please.              Next slide.
21                    One of the key projects right now at the 22 site is the construction of the second of two dry fuel 23 storage pads.          The construction on the second pad 24 started back in 2016.                There was a break over the 25 winter        period  due      to    weather.          We  restarted NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 construction of the pad on March 13th.                        We've been 2 moving right along with progress.                    Just this week, we 3 completed the reinforcing bar placement for the second 4 pad.      So the pad is now ready to accept concrete.                    And 5 that -- that pour will be scheduled, we believe, next 6 week, weather depending.
7                    In addition to that, we've been going 8 through the efforts of getting ready for our 2017 dry 9 fuel        storage    campaign.          At      this    point,    we're 10 estimating that if we start over the next couple 11 weeks,        which  is    our    target,        we'll  be  loading 12 approximately twenty dry casks in 2017.                      Then again, 13 we'll take a break over the winter for weather reasons 14 and we'll complete the remaining dry casks.                      There's 15 a total of forty-five casks that have yet to be 16 loaded.        There are thirteen on the pad right now for 17 our total of fifty-eight.
18                    Our target is to have all fuel transferred 19 either in the late third quarter of 2018 or early 20 fourth quarter of 2018.                  Again, part of that is 21 weather dependent and ensuring that our -- we meet our 22 -- our schedule.
23                    Next slide, please.
24                    Some current pictures in the upper right-25 hand corner, that is the correct configuration of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 first pad with the thirteen casks.                      We recently 2 rearranged that configuration to be ready for the 3 acceptance      of  the    new    loaded      cask,  which    I    had 4 mentioned we'll start very soon.
5                  The picture in the lower left is the 6 pouring of what is known as the leveling slab.                            So 7 this is essentially the -- a pad that is put in place.
8 We can then place the rebar on top of it.                    That was 9 done      recently  and    that    sets    the  stage  for      then 10 constructing the second pad.
11                  Next slide, please.
12                  On  the    right-hand          side,  you  can      see 13 workers putting the rebar in place -- the reinforcing 14 bar in place on top of that leveling slab.                    And then 15 you can see, in the lower left, the rebar being rigged 16 in place.      This is very heavy steel that is placed in 17 a -- in a very detailed configuration.                    It is then 18 wired together and in advance of us pouring the 19 concrete.
20                  Next slide, please.
21                  We've been talking about water management 22 for about a year and a half now.                  As many of you know 23 from previous meetings, we have water entering into 24 the lower elevations of our turbine building.                        Over 25 that period of time, we have made measures to capture NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 that water stored on site and then ultimately ship it.
2                  We continue to monitor the intrusion water 3 and address it by making repairs to any cracks or 4 crevices where water is coming in.                    We continue those 5 efforts and they've been very successful in reducing 6 the amount of intrusion water.                This time of year and 7 in the springtime is -- is typically a time of the 8 year that you see an increase in the groundwater 9 elevation        and,  therefore,          an      increase  in      that 10 intrusion.        Because of the efforts we've been able to 11 maintain and manage that to very low numbers. I don't 12 have today's number, but I think we're looking at 13 about three -- about six hundred gallons a day is --
14 is the number that -- that we're seeing.
15                  The groundwater is captured, placed into 16 frac tanks, tested and then shipped to EnergySolutions 17 where they have a licensed disposal site in Tennessee.
18 Right now, we're shipping about three per month at the 19 present        intrusion    rate.        And      we've  shipped      five 20 hundred and seventeen thousand gallons to date.
21                  Next slide, please.              Next slide.
22                  In regards to the two efforts that are 23 necessary to go forward with the transaction, one, of 24 course, will be discussed in a very short matter of 25 time as the NRC has been requested to take a look at NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 a license transfer application, as well as the revised 2 P.S.D.A.R. We're also going through the process of 3 seeking approval from the State of Vermont Public 4 Service Board through the Certificate of Public Good 5 Process.
6                The first round of discovery requests on 7 us were sent out on March 17th. We provided responses 8 on April 26th. There has been a request by Department 9 of Public Service and others to extend -- extend that 10 a bit because of certain documents that are -- are 11 confidential in nature. So we had to file a motion to 12 ensure that these confidential documents were treated 13 in a certain way, and that those -- those entities 14 that intervened would -- would respect them that way.
15                There's also a couple of documents that 16 are very sensitive to NorthStar's business that also 17 need special treatment.          And we're going through the 18 process right now of getting that protocol worked out.
19                So the second round of discovery requests 20 on us were supposed to be May 10th, but because of the 21 delay in this handling of documents, that will be 22 delayed to be about three weeks after all documents 23 have been produced.
24                There's also been some motions by some of 25 the intervenors, including New England Coalition, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 1 asking for partial summary judgment going back to some 2 earlier dockets on some orders that had already been 3 made.          Those are going through the process in the 4 Public Service Board.
5                    Bottom      line,      very        detailed,      very 6 comprehensive process of going through this approval 7 in the State of Vermont.                And we're hoping that this 8 will all take place over the next year or so with 9 approval at the end of first quarter 2018.
10                    Next slide, please.              Next slide.
11                    An update on the Nuclear Decommissioning 12 Trust Fund at the end of March, last reported the 13 Decommissioning Trust Fund was at five hundred and 14 sixty-eight point nine million dollars.                          The most 15 current number at the end of April was five hundred 16 and seventy million dollars. That increase was due to 17 positive market performance, offset by the qualified 18 reimbursements that we have made from the trust and 19 some      of    the  fund    expenses      that      we  have  to    pay, 20 essentially taxes.
21                    So to date in 2017, we've made just under 22 twelve        million  dollars        in  qualified      withdrawals.
23 We've earned about twenty-one point seven million 24 dollars in market gains and paid one point four 25 million dollars in -- in expenses.
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14 1                  The    second        trust        that  we've      been 2 maintaining is a Site Restoration Trust.                        This is 3 wholly funded by Entergy.              We have made four payments 4 of five million dollars, or twenty million dollars.
5 However,        due  to  growth      of  the      trust  fund,      that 6 currently stands at twenty-three point six million 7 dollars at the end of April.                  And we have one five 8 million dollars contribution yet to be made at the end 9 of this year.
10                  Next slide, please.
11                  Insofar      as      our      communications          and 12 providing information to the public, we continue, 13 obviously, to participate in this Panel.                    We continue 14 to do speaking engagements, media interviews, local 15 advertising,        and    we    continue        to    be  very    strong 16 partners with our community. On occasion, we are able 17 to do tours at the site.              They, of course, are going 18 to be impacted by ongoing site activities. So we need 19 to be mindful to a lot of work that's going on at the 20 site.        So we ask, if we have these type of tours, we 21 get advance notice.
22                  And then of course, we continue to put 23 information        out      through        our      website      V      Y 24 decommissioning dot com. And I'm happy to report that 25 the website has been updated recently and it continues NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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15 1 to be updated.      This is a screenshot.            If you were to 2 go on to V Y decommissioning dot com, you will see 3 kind of the updated website that now has search 4 capabilities. And it is being updated constantly with 5 the latest information.
6                  And we're also going through the process 7 of renaming a lot of these documents to make it easier 8 for individuals to find them and kind of migrate their 9 way through.      There's been a lot of information put 10 out.      And we're committed to making sure that we can 11 get that information out efficiently.
12                  And unless there's any questions, that was 13 kind of the end of what I planned and prepared, Kate.
14                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Great; thank you, Joe.
15                  Just so everybody -- I'm not sure how many 16 people have the paper agenda.                    And we're going to 17 flash it up on the screen later.                  The public comment 18 portion of this meeting will start in about an hour.
19 And if you want to speak and haven't signed up, there 20 are sign-up sheets over on the table.                  We will have a 21 break after the presentations are made.                  So you don't 22 have to storm the table right now.                    There will be 23 opportunity between when this portion ends and when 24 the public comment period begins.
25                  Next, I want to invite Scott State, who is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 the C.E.O. of NorthStar, and Mike Twomey, who is the 2 Vice President for External Affairs of Entergy, to --
3 I guess, you're going to walk us through the license 4 transfer and possibly the P.S.D.A.R., but I'll let you 5 tell us what you're going to talked about.
6                    MR. TWOMEY:        Thank you, Kate.
7                    This is Mike Twomey on behalf of Entergy.
8 This is a joint presentation between Entergy and 9 NorthStar.        I have a limited role at the frontend of 10 the presentation and I'll be turning it over to Scott 11 in just -- just a few minutes.
12                    I  want      to    thank      the  Panel  and      the 13 chairwoman for inviting us to participate in this 14 meeting tonight, provide additional information about 15 this      transaction.        So    with    no    more  introductory 16 remarks, I'll go to the next slide.
17                    Start    briefly      with      what  I  hope    is    a 18 complementary update without duplicating anything that 19 Joe      Lynch    just    covered.          Right      now,  we      have 20 approximately a hundred and fifty employees at the 21 site.          That is our -- our staffing level that we 22 expect to maintain through approximately the third or 23 fourth quarter of 2018.              The next major milestone is 24 the completion of the dry fuel storage project.
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17 1 to earlier is completed, when all of the canisters 2 have been moved on to the pad, all the spent fuel 3 moved        out  of  the    pool,    we  will      have  a  staffing 4 reduction at that time.                    Along the way, we will 5 continue to have our communications with the Panel, as 6 well as employees and regulatory bodies.
7                    Joe mentioned we've got a certificate of 8 public good pending in front of the Public Service 9 Board. In -- in general, for those of you who weren't 10 that familiar with it, it's an application seeking 11 approval        from  the    Public      Service      Board  for      the 12 transaction that we've proposed.
13                    We have a similar, but -- but separate, 14 filing pending in front of the Nuclear Regulatory 15 Commission.          We also need approval from that federal 16 agency for the transaction.
17                    Joe spent some time talking about the 18 discovery        issues.        I'll    say    that    right  now      the 19 procedural        schedule      contemplates          one  more    public 20 hearing opportunity, similar to the one that we had 21 earlier in the year. I don't believe the date of that 22 has      been    nailed    down.        I    think      it's  currently 23 September 5th or 6th, depending on -- on availability.
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18 1 testimony process.
2                  We  will      have      evidentiary  hearings, 3 technical hearings, I believe, is the right term in 4 front of the Public Service Board, late in the year.
5 Those hearings are currently scheduled for November.
6 But it is -- is possible that the discovery issues and 7 the testimony deadlines will impact the schedule for 8 the technical hearing.            So I would say that at this 9 point those -- those are not set in stone.
10                  We have requested that the board take 11 action on the application by the end of the first 12 quarter of 2018. We obviously have no power to compel 13 the schedule for the board.                We've simply told them 14 that -- that that's the schedule we -- we would hope 15 they could meet.          And we'll just see how the process 16 unfolds.
17                  We've got the license transfer application 18 pending at the NRC.                And NorthStar submitted an 19 updated        post-shutdown        decommissioning    activities 20 report on April 6th.            And I'm going to let Scott talk 21 about those details.            But in general, those of you 22 who've been following this closely, Entergy filed a 23 P.S.D.A.R. back in November of 2014.
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19 1 and      would  become    the    operative          document for      the 2 project if the transaction is approved by both the NRC 3 and the P.S.B.          The -- the timeline at the bottom 4 there on -- on this slide is -- is the timeline that 5 was reflected in the post-shutdown decommissioning 6 activities report that Entergy submitted back in 2014.
7 Everyone knows we ceased commercial operations in 8 December      of  2014.        The    reactor        was permanently 9 defueled      in  January      2015.        We    contemplated      fuel 10 transfer by 2020.
11                  So the first update that you've gotten in 12 the last few months is that we now believe we can 13 complete that fuel transfer by the third or fourth 14 quarter of 2018, which is a two-year improvement on 15 the fuel transfer schedule that we had originally 16 anticipated.
17                  That means that the SAFSTORE dormancy 18 period would commence under our ownership, if we 19 retain ownership, after the fuel is moved to the pad 20 in 2018.        And that will be of some indeterminate 21 length.        I don't want to go into too much detail 22 tonight because we're really focused on the license 23 transfer application.            But that SAFSTORE period will 24 be however long it needs to be under the requirements 25 of the settlement agreement that we have at the State NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 of Vermont, the funding of the Nuclear Decommissioning 2 Trust Fund, and the decommissioning cost estimate that 3 we have for the project under Entergy's ownership.
4                  And so the rest of the dates are -- are, 5 again, dates that would be in -- in effect if Entergy 6 retains the ownership of the site.
7                  So if we go to the next slide?
8                  I'll just -- you know, introduce this 9 concept again, which is that one of the primary 10 benefits      of  the    proposed      transaction      is  that      it 11 substantially accelerates the safe decommissioning of 12 the plant under ownership of a company and -- and with 13 work, with a team that it's put together that has the 14 capacity and the experience and the expertise to 15 complete the decommissioning project on a much quicker 16 timeline than under Entergy's ownership.
17                  And    so    with      that,      I'll  turn      the 18 presentation over to Scott State.
19                  MR. STATE:      Thank you, Mike.
20                  And thank you, Kate.
21                  I'm Scott State.          I'm the Chief Executive 22 Officer of NorthStar.            Just with a show of hands, how 23 many folks are here that haven't been to any of these 24 meetings before where we've spoken?                    Not too many.
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21 1 good engagement among the community here.                      I'm not 2 going to go over a lot of things that I've gone over 3 before.        But I do want to, initially here, cover who 4 our team is.
5                  NorthStar, if -- if you go around the 6 room, you can see we've put up some large photographs 7 this evening to show you some of the large-scale 8 projects that -- that we've done.                    And I'm going to 9 get to that in a little bit, but it's important, just 10 in terms of the scale of work that we do, as we 11 consider how we would do this project.                  And you know, 12 what you'll find is that the size of projects that 13 we've done in many -- many cases bound the size of 14 Vermont Yankee.        And -- and I'll talk through that a 15 little bit more as we get into it.
16                  In addition to ourselves on our team, 17 we've got AREVA and we've talked about AREVA at past 18 meetings.        AREVA's a large nuclear services business.
19 It's a French-owned company.                The subsidiary that we 20 work with is a U.S. based firm in Washington D.C. And 21 they have a couple of specific things they're going to 22 do for us on this project.
23                  One is they are going to segment the 24 reactor vessel and the reactor vessel internals.                        And 25 that -- that's a significant component of the project NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 1 in that it's got a high degree of highly radioactive 2 material.      That's one of the first activities that 3 we'll do.      AREVA will also be assisting us over the 4 many years that we will be caretaker for the spent 5 nuclear fuel that will remain at the site until the 6 Department of Energy comes and removes it.
7                A  second      subcontractor        is  Burns      and 8 McDonnell. Burns and McDonnell is a large engineering 9 firm based in Kansas City.            And they are specifically 10 going to support us with some engineering activities 11 and some licensing activities as we do this project.
12                And our third supplier is Waste Control 13 Specialists, or W.C.S., based in Texas, an important 14 component      of  this    team      because      they  take      the 15 radioactive waste or the material that comes from the 16 decommissioning project and it goes to their site in 17 Texas for disposal.
18                W.C.S. is part of -- is the disposal site 19 for the Texas and Vermont Compact. So by statute, the 20 material created at this project will have a right to 21 be disposed at that site and they're are partner on 22 this project as well.
23                Turning to the next slide, I'll let Mike 24 start off.        This is a transition period between 25 Entergy and -- and NorthStar.
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23 1                  MR. TWOMEY:      So for very briefly, we shut 2 the facility down in 2014 and over the next several 3 years we've been focused on getting the dry fuel 4 storage campaign completed.              That is taking the spent 5 nuclear fuel that's currently in the spent nuclear 6 fuel pool and moving it into the canisters that are on 7 the dry cask storage cask pads in the yard.                And the 8 -- the effort to do that, when completed, will have 9 removed approximately ninety-five percent or more of 10 the radioactive material from the plant and isolated 11 that to the ISFSI pad.
12                  The next step after you do that is to 13 focus on the major dismantling work. And as the owner 14 of that facility in 2014, we were hearing loud and 15 clear from the community, from the state, from all 16 stakeholders, that the primary concern was that this 17 site be decommissioned as quickly as possible, while 18 -- while safely, but -- but not have the site languish 19 for -- for sixty years.
20                  And so in an effort to be responsive to 21 those concerns, we evaluated the potential for another 22 owner        of that    facility        who      is an expert        in 23 decommissioning, and -- and made the determination 24 that this project could be turned over to a new owner 25 who could do it as safely as we could, but more cost NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 1 effectively and more efficiently than we could.                            And 2 then        that    presents      the      opportunity        for      this 3 transaction that we're talking about this evening.
4                    And with that, I'll turn it over to Scott 5 to      talk    about  what      work    they      would  do    if    the 6 transaction were approved.
7                    MR. STATE:        So if -- if this transaction 8 does get approved in 2018, we will take ownership of 9 the site. And the first two years of our project work 10 will be focused on segmenting the reactor vessel and 11 the reactor vessel internals.                  And that will take the 12 removal of radiological material out of the plant to 13 about ninety-nine percent of what was the original 14 source        term,  leaving      about      one      percent  residual 15 radioactive material that we will be removing, with a 16 very vast majority of the volume of material coming 17 out of the site after that. And this is contamination 18 on concrete and that sort of thing that we will be 19 dealing with post the removal of the vessel in the 20 internals.
21                    So you can see the title of this chart is 22 actually Vermont Yankee Contaminated Site Cleanup.
23 And it's -- it's an important distinction that we make 24 when we look at a project like this.                            We aren't 25 nuclear power plant operators.                      And we don't really NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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25 1 view this specifically as a cleanup of a facility 2 that's        a  nuclear      power    plant.        We view    it      as 3 decommissioning of a contaminated site.
4                      And all around this room, you see pictures 5 of      large      projects      that    we've      done where    we've 6 decommissioned some type of contaminated site. And it 7 may have been contaminated with radiological materials 8 or P.C.B.s or mercury or other hazardous components or 9 asbestos, but -- but everything that we do as a 10 company          is  --  involves        remediating      contaminated 11 facilities or sites.              And that's exactly how we view 12 Vermont Yankee.
13                      So you know, our project durations here, 14 you can see that once we get the vessel out, and the 15 internals, those are segmented, they're packaged, and 16 they are shipped to Texas. We've got about a six-year 17 program planned at this point in time for the final 18 decommissioning activities which would take the site 19 to what would be determined a partial site release.
20                      And it's called a partial site release 21 because the ISFSI with the spent fuel in the -- in the 22 canisters that are -- are there, that piece of the 23 site can't be released until that fuel is taken away.
24 So site-wise, you know, all but a very small number of 25 acres can be released in -- in roughly 2026. And that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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26 1 would be our target schedule at this point.
2                And then how long we -- we have the ISFSI 3 in place is -- is really not in our control.                        We 4 certainly would like to see D.O.E. come and take that 5 fuel away. Once that piece of the project is done, we 6 will remove the ISFSI pad.            And all of that remaining 7 material and the site then will be -- will go for a 8 final license determination and a full site release.
9                So as I mentioned, as a company, NorthStar 10 has decommissioned thousands of facilities of various 11 sizes with various types of contaminants.              There's a 12 number of projects back here that have radiological 13 components,    some  of    them    significantly    larger      in 14 various aspects of the work.                What we've done with 15 these -- with these photographs -- and we'll probably 16 present these again at -- at future meetings. And you 17 know, if folks want to talk when we're at the break 18 with any of our people, we've got quite a few of our 19 employees here this evening that can kind of walk you 20 through these various projects.
21                But there's placards on each project that 22 show you the volume of contaminated concrete metal and 23 soil that was involved in each one of them.              And then 24 there's also a line on those that show you what the 25 equivalent or the same amount -- materials are in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1 Vermont Yankee. And it will give you kind of an idea, 2 I think, that we've got a lot of bounding projects on 3 a comparative basis.
4                    We also have a short video which we'll 5 show in just a few minutes.                And it's -- a lot of it 6 is time lapse footage of us removing large structures, 7 commercial industrial structures, and that type of 8 thing.        And you can see -- over, you know, less than 9 ten minutes, you'll see many years of work that we've 10 done on a time lapse basis.
11                    So going forward to the next -- excuse me 12 -- three charts, this chart -- on each of the next 13 three charts, you'll see a green box.                      The green box 14 is the volume of material that we will be removing on 15 an annual basis at Vermont Yankee.                    Vermont Yankee is 16 a six-year project with various phases.                        So on an 17 annual basis, we look at how much material we would 18 generate in each of three primary waste classes; 19 concrete, metals, and soil.
20                    So in terms of concrete, I don't know if 21 you can read this in the audience or not, but the --
22 the primary large structures that we deal with that 23 have concrete are going to be commercial.                            Power 24 plants -- you know, nuclear power plants have a 25 significant amount of concrete because it's -- you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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28 1 know, it's the way the plants are built and it has 2 shielding capabilities.                But for the most part, the 3 very      large    amounts      of    concrete      waste  that      are 4 generated        in  decommissioning            projects  come    from 5 commercial jobs.
6                  And as you can see, the -- the largest 7 facility here, an industrial facility, which happened 8 to be a smelter, had two hundred thousand tons of 9 concrete per year.            And the reason this is important 10 is in a project like this, these types of projects are 11 logistics jobs.          You're -- you're moving volumes of 12 material and your ability to move volumes of material 13 will determine how quickly you can get the work done.
14                  So you know, just on a comparative basis, 15 Vermont Yankee is about sixteen thousand tons of 16 concrete per year.              Our largest project that we've 17 done in the last five to seven years is two hundred 18 thousand.            All      of      these        projects,  there's 19 approximately fifteen I think here, are -- are, you 20 know, roughly double or more the size of the amount of 21 concrete that we will generate and remove at Vermont 22 Yankee.
23                  Similarly, the next slide shows metals.
24 In a project like this, the primary metals in a 25 nuclear plant are going to be rebar.                    Joe showed you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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29 1 the construction of the ISFSI.                The laying of rebar.
2 If you are familiar with how this plant was built, the 3 -- the structures of this plant have a lot of very 4 heavy rebar in them.            So we will be breaking the 5 concrete out and separating the metal, typically, the 6 rebar mesh, and packaging all of this for disposal at 7 the W.C.S. site in Texas.
8                So from -- from this figure, you can see 9 that as far as metals on projects, there are a lot of 10 these projects that are power plants.                And a fossil 11 plant, interestingly enough, has a lot more structural 12 steel in it than a nuclear plant.                  The structural 13 materials in a nuclear plant, a lot of those are 14 actually concrete.          In a fossil plant, there are 15 typically large steel members and then a lot of rebar 16 mesh, as well.
17                But you know, here, you can see we've got 18 a number of projects, some two to three times the size 19 of Vermont Yankee, on an annual production basis of 20 metals that we would have removed and disposed of.
21                And then the last slide deals directly 22 with soils. And when we went through and looked at 23 these kinds of projects, we actually -- we do a lot of 24 heavy civil environmental work where we maybe build 25 levees and dams and that sort of thing.                We took all NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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30 1 of that out because that's really not dealing with 2 contaminated soils.              This is all projects that deal 3 with soil that has some type of contamination.
4                    And you know, at power plant sites, that 5 could        be    things  like    coal    ash      and  a  number      of 6 different things, soils that maybe come out of an 7 industrial facility that have mercury or P.H.s or 8 P.C.B.s or something like that.                      At Vermont Yankee, 9 we're looking at a site that's, you know, likely going 10 to have more radiological contamination in the soil 11 than these other types of components.
12                    In one of the pictures in the back corner 13 is a project that we did a couple of years ago at the 14 Hanford site where we removed two hundred and fifty 15 thousand tons of soil, radiologically contaminated 16 soil.          And by comparison, we -- we think the, you 17 know, soil volume, as we currently are looking at it, 18 is about twenty-eight thousand tons at Vermont Yankee.
19 So a project roughly ten times the size of Vermont 20 Yankee          in  terms      of    remediating          radiologically 21 contaminated soils.
22                    MR. TWOMEY:        All right.          So I think we 23 covered this, but the -- but the milestones then are 24 -- we are -- we have requested that the NRC take 25 action on the license transfer amendment by the end of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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31 1 the year.        I'll make the same disclaimer I made with 2 respect to the Public Service Board.                    We have no 3 ability to control the schedule at the NRC                  So we've 4 simply made the request.              And we are hopeful that if 5 we have submitted all the proper material and they've 6 got the information that they need, that a decision 7 could be reached. But that's a hope and a target, not 8 a -- not a definitive date.
9                  And the Public Service Board, I mentioned 10 March 2018 was the -- was the request.                And the spent 11 fuel movement to the ISFSI, I'd say that's an element 12 over which we have much greater control.                  That's --
13 that's operational control on our side.                The dry cask 14 campaign for 2017 should begin next week to move 15 twenty of the remaining forty-five casks.                That would 16 leave twenty-five casks to be moved next year.                    If we 17 stay on schedule, we should be done by -- by the 18 fourth quarter.
19                  And then if we receive approvals from the 20 NRC      and  the  Public      Service      Board,  and  if    those 21 approvals do not contain any conditions that are 22 unacceptable to the parties, we would hope to close 23 the transaction at the end of 2018.
24                  And with that, I believe there's a short 25 video that the -- our expert driver over there is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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32 1 going to tee up and get moving.
2                (A video was played.)
3                MR. STATE:      This is a project that we did 4 a couple of years ago.          And it's basically an entire 5 city block in the middle of Los Angeles.                  And so you 6 can imagine the logistics, trying to get material out, 7 fifty thousand tons of concrete.                And essentially, we 8 -- we removed this building one floor at a time, 9 taking the material from the top to the bottom, 10 putting it on transport vehicles, and taking it out of 11 the middle of the City of Los Angeles.                  And when we 12 got done, that's a site much like Vermont Yankee will 13 look like.
14                This project, we did about four or five 15 years ago. This is Launch Pad 39-B, which has some 16 historical significance. It's the launch pad that the 17 Challenger launched from.            I'm not sure if it's the 18 last launch from that pad.          This video doesn't really 19 give you necessarily a good idea of the scale of this 20 structure. It's -- it's incredibly large and there 21 were lot of constraints on this.                  We couldn't drop 22 material like this to the ground.                    The pad -- the 23 launch pad itself had to be retained and kept in good 24 order because they had a mobile launch structure they 25 were going to use on the pad after we finished.
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33 1                    This just shows some of the specially 2 equipment we use that -- that we will be using here, 3 as well.          And then this is a time lapse of the 4 structure over a period of a number of months as we 5 picked and peeled away all the pieces and -- and took 6 the entire structure apart.
7                    This is a structure in the middle of Las 8 Vegas.          Anybody that's been there would probably 9 recognize the facility.                This -- this was a twenty-10 seven-story        building      that    was      constructed,    never 11 opened, had structural defects, and had to be removed.
12 It sits right on Las Vegas Boulevard, so again a very 13 significant        logistics      challenge        to get  that    much 14 concrete out on a busy corner, another successful job 15 about two years ago.
16                    This is a project at an Ivy School. We do 17 a    lot      of  work    in    the    northeast,      removing      old 18 facilities at the -- the Ivy League schools and -- and 19 other facilities in the Boston area.                    And so this is 20 a project that we've -- I think we're still conducting 21 today, but it's some work I believe we did last year.
22                    What you see there is the concrete and 23 rebar mesh that's -- that's generally mixed together.
24 This is a project that's larger than Vermont in every 25 respect.        It's a powerplant in New York.              And it's a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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34 1 project that we are just finishing up some of the 2 soils remediation at this point in time and receding.
3 But you can see this is a project that was done in the 4 city environment, and large boilers, so a lot of 5 metal, a lot of concrete, a very old structure, a lot 6 of contamination from the types of fuels used here.
7 And, you know, at the end of the day a site that --
8 that      went off  without      a  hitch.        And, you    know, 9 logistically probably or size-wise, the property is, 10 you know, similar size to Vermont Yankee, as well.
11                  Those are stacks that are somewhat similar 12 to the Vermont Yankee stacks.                Those are about three 13 days apiece using specialty equipment that we use the 14 stack removal.
15                  So this is a New York Power Authority 16 plant that we did about a year and a half ago.                        We 17 finished a very large project.                  This plant actually 18 has a boiler. We believe it's the largest boiler that 19 -- that may have ever been constructed. Massive steel 20 structure to deal with in this -- this facility, and 21 a pretty -- pretty intense environment in terms of 22 working, essentially, in the City of New York, taking 23 this plant down.
24                  We do take down a number of structures in 25 the middle of New York City.                We removed the entire NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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35 1 St. Vincent's Hospital.            We did all the renovation 2 work at Madison Square Garden.                  We did most of the 3 removal of Yankee Stadium. None of those projects are 4 depicted here.      They're not particularly relevant to 5 Vermont Yankee.      But we're accustomed to doing very 6 large projects in -- in complicated and difficult 7 places.
8                There's some key -- you know, key things 9 about this kind of project and about Vermont Yankee.
10 You know, we -- we do a lot of decontamination and 11 removal of environmental contaminants inside these 12 structures.      When you peel off the outside of the 13 structure,    then    you're      just      removing  structural 14 materials and steel in an environment that's been 15 decontaminated.
16                And this is another facility in Las Vegas 17 that we did last summer, a large multi-block structure 18 that we did on a very accelerated timeline.                          We 19 actually did this project in about nine months.                      It 20 was a Fastrac site.        One of the things you don't see 21 here is this is a site that we actually imploded. And 22 I didn't want to have video of implosions because 23 we're not going to use implosions at Vermont Yankee.
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36 1 of thing.
2                We do have a photograph in the back, left 3 corner of a cooling tower at the Savannah River 4 nuclear site that we also took down by implosion.                    It 5 was a clean tower that our government had built for 6 about one hundred million dollars and never used.                    So 7 we imploded it and removed that a few years ago.
8                But, yeah, this is a site when you can do 9 implosion,    it's    a    very    fast      way to  take      down 10 structures of this type.          And you get the material to 11 the ground, you process the concrete out and the metal 12 out.
13                So of note, you know, we've stated a 14 number of times that we're a very safety conscious and 15 environmental regulatory compliant company and -- and 16 every project you saw there was operated in that type 17 of manner.
18                That's it.
19                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Great. Thank you very 20 much.
21                Now, I want to introduce, or have them 22 introduce themselves, the representatives that have 23 come here from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
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37 1 transfer that Entergy and NorthStar are asking for.
2                  And again, I want to thank you folks for 3 coming tonight.        And I know we'll have some questions 4 and comments for you after your presentation.                              So 5 thank you.
6                  MS. KOCK: My name's Andrea Kock. I'm the 7 Deputy Director of our Decommissioning Division in NRC 8 Headquarters from Rockville, Maryland.                    I also wanted 9 to thank Kate and her colleagues of the Panel for 10 inviting us here tonight, as well as the Vermont 11 delegation.
12                  We do appreciate the opportunity to be 13 here and we are pleased to be here.                    And I mean that 14 sincerely because it is important for us to consider 15 your comments with regard to our regulatory processes.
16 It's      important  that    we    touch      base    with  you      and 17 consider those comments as part of our process. We do 18 very much appreciate the invitation this evening.
19                  As Kate mentioned, the main purpose of us 20 being here tonight is to gather your comments with 21 regard to our review of the application we have before 22 us for transfer of the Vermont Yankee license to 23 NorthStar.      And Kate also mentioned that we recently, 24 just this week, issued a federal notice asking for 25 comments      on  the    application.              So  this  is    your NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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38 1 opportunity to get your comments in early.
2                    And I also wanted to mention that we're 3 transcribing your comments during the meeting tonight.
4 So if you have a comment you've made the comment at 5 the meeting, there isn't a need for you to submit an 6 additional comment on the docket to the NRC.
7                    What we're going to do tonight is provide 8 you an overview, as Kate mentioned, of what we look at 9 when we look at a transfer application, our process, 10 and the criteria that we use.                    And I want to assure 11 you that that review will be independent and thorough.
12 As one of the cornerstones of the way the NRC operates 13 as an independent regulator, it's very important to us 14 as an organization and it's important to me as an 15 individual that that's the way we operate.
16                    And  part    of    us  being      independent      and 17 thorough is getting out in the community to hear from 18 you,      but  also  getting      out    to    the  sites  that      we 19 regulate.        And in that vein, we did visit the Vermont 20 Yankee site today to get a sense of what's going on 21 there from a decommissioning perspective. And I think 22 that helps us to put our own eyes on the site and 23 gather our own thoughts so that we make sure we are 24 being        independent,      as    well      as    having  a    good 25 understanding of what's going on, on the ground.
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39 1                I'll just take a minute here to introduce 2 the NRC staff that are going to present this evening.
3 First, we're going to hear from Bruce Watson.                  He's 4 our Chief of the Reactor Decommissioning Branch.                  He 5 has extensive experience in decommissioning and he's 6 going to go over for you just an overview of the 7 decommissioning process and our process for review of 8 the transfer application.
9                And then we're going to hear from Jack 10 Parrott, here to my left.            He's our project manager 11 for the Vermont Yankee site.            He's going to go into a 12 little bit more detail for you about the process we 13 follow and some of the considerations that we look at 14 in the transfer application.
15                And then lastly, we'll hear from Mike 16 Dusaniwskyj. He's an economist who works for the NRC.
17 He looks at all of the decommissioning funding reviews 18 that we do to make sure that plants have adequate 19 decommissioning funding to decommission.
20                I just also wanted to mention that we have 21 Ray Powell here. He's from our Philadelphia office in 22 the region. He's sitting here in the front row.                If 23 you have questions about our oversight process, an 24 important thing that Bruce will touch on is that the 25 NRC's oversight doesn't stop when a plant goes into NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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40 1 decommissioning.              We    do    extensive      inspections 2 periodically and Ray's group leads those inspections 3 from our regional office in Philadelphia.
4                  And just one final note and then I'll turn 5 it over to Bruce.          I did want to echo something that 6 Kate said.        Our review is currently ongoing of the 7 application. So we haven't made any conclusions about 8 whether        NorthStar    is    financially        or  technically 9 qualified to hold the license.                    We're still in the 10 initial stages of our review.                So we won't be able to 11 give you any bottom-line conclusions about what we 12 think about this or that.
13                  And I don't want you to take that as us 14 being standoffish or -- or hiding something. We're --
15 just we're not at that point of process.                  We can tell 16 you what we look at, the criteria that we go by, but 17 we haven't drawn any conclusions one way or the other 18 at this point in the review.
19                  We can let you know where we are in the 20 process.        We're happy to answer questions.              We would 21 really appreciate your comments.                      And because we 22 haven't made any conclusions, some of our responses 23 may be just thank you for your comment because we 24 don't at this point have a conclusion.                    And I wanted 25 to make that clear.
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41 1                  At this point, I'll turn it over to Bruce 2 Watson.        And again, thank you for inviting us.
3                  MR. WATSON:        Well, thank you again for 4 having us come out tonight and for the invitation.
5                  I  want      to  give    a    real  quick,    brief 6 overview of -- of a few of the items before we get 7 into some of the more detail from the staff. On slide 8 one, I just remind everybody that the NRC role in 9 decommissioning is to ensure that the facility or site 10 is removed from service, and that the radiological 11 conditions will meet the license -- criteria for 12 license termination.
13                  And we have two conditions in which that 14 license can be terminated, under unrestricted use or 15 restricted use. To date, all decommissioning sites in 16 the United States, including the ten power reactors 17 that had been completed decommissioning and had their 18 licenses        terminated,        have      been      released      for 19 unrestricted        use,    meaning      the      owner  can  use      the 20 property for whatever purpose they have intended to do 21 in the future.
22                  And for this particular site, I believe 23 both      Entergy  and    NorthStar      will      be  --  have      the 24 criteria that they're going to release the site, 25 terminate the license for unrestricted release.
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42 1                    Also, I want to point out that once the 2 license is terminated, or in parallel with the license 3 terminations process, the actual restoration of the 4 site      is  up  to  the    owner    and    the  state    and      its 5 stakeholders.          So once the radioactive material's 6 removed, they're free to do whatever they choose to do 7 for the site.
8                    Can we go to the next slide, please?
9                    In April 2017, a revised P.S.D.A.R., post-10 shutdown activities -- post-shutdown decommissioning 11 activities        report,      was    submitted      to  the    NRC      by 12 NorthStar.        It is contingent on the sale and license 13 transfer.
14                    One of the key features of this P.S.D.A.R.
15 is        that    NorthStar        plans        to  complete          the 16 decommissioning by as early as 2016.                    We will review 17 the -- excuse me -- 2026.                Excuse me.        And we will 18 review the P.S.D.A.R. with the same rigor that we 19 reviewed      the    --  the    Entergy      P.S.D.A.R. that      was 20 submitted in 2014.              And two of the -- one of the 21 guidance documents that you may be familiar with is 22 Reg      Guide    1.185.        It's    available      on  our    public 23 website.
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43 1 comments      on  both    the    license        transfer  and      the 2 P.S.D.A.R.      And this will end on June 23rd, 2017.
3                  And with that, I'll turn it over to Jack 4 Parrott to talk about the license transfer process.
5                  MR. PARROTT: Okay. If we could go to the 6 next slide, please.
7                  So    reactor        decommissioning          license 8 transfers, they are a relatively common occurrence.
9 The      license  for    Vermont      Yankee,      which  previously 10 transferred to Entergy in 2002.                    NRC has regulations 11 in      place  to    ensure      that      reactor      licenses      are 12 transferred to a technically and financially viable 13 company.        Transfers of licenses to facilitate the 14 decommissioning of reactors have occurred twice before 15 for the Zion and La Crosse plants.
16                  Next slide, please.
17                  Our review process, the application for 18 license transfer was submitted in February -- on 19 February 9th, 2017.            The license transfer documents 20 are available on our public website on the U.R.L. on 21 the slide there.        Acceptance review was documented --
22 our      acceptance    review      of    the      --  of  the  license 23 application was documented by letter dated April 6th, 24 2017.
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44 1 the technical and financial re -- review topics are 2 covered.        But nevertheless, there still could be a 3 request for additional information from our subsequent 4 review.
5                  The notice of consideration was published 6 in the Federal Register yesterday.                    It includes an 7 opportunity for hearing and an opportunity for public 8 comment. The opportunity for hearing and intervention 9 is open to any person whose interest may be affected 10 by NRC action on this application.                    The opportunity 11 remains        open  twenty      days      after    the  notice        of 12 consideration that was published yesterday.
13                  The -- the opportunity for public comment 14 is a thirty-day period where written comments can be 15 submitted for consideration by the staff during the 16 review -- our review process.
17                  As Andrea mentioned, our technical and 18 financial review is underway.                If found acceptable, a 19 safety evaluation report, an order, and a license 20 amendment will be issued by the NRC.
21                  Next -- next slide, please.
22                  The -- the two things that we review, 23 primary areas are the technical qualifications and 24 financial qualifications. The technical qualification 25 review areas focus on the management, the technical NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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45 1 support, and onsite organization to ensure that they 2 are involved in, informed of, and dedicated to the 3 safe operation of the plant, and to determine if 4 sufficient        qualified      technical        resources    will      be 5 provided for safe operations.
6                    All requirements -- this is an important 7 point.        All of the requirements of the current plant 8 operator and owner at the time of transfer, should --
9 should the transfer be approved, will be -- will 10 transfer to the new -- the new company, NorthStar.
11 Implementation of those requirements is the key and 12 will be under the continued oversight of NRC.
13                    At this point, I'd like to turn over to 14 Mike        Dusaniwskyj      to    talk      about      the  financial 15 qualification review.
16                    MR. DUSANIWSKYJ:              Good    evening.        The 17 financial qualification review in this particular 18 license        transfer    is    going      to      be  focusing        on 19 decommissioning funding assurance, foreign ownership 20 control or domination, and the price and its indemnity 21 and nuclear insurance.                In this regard, staff will 22 seek reasonable assurance that the licensee maintains 23 adequate funding to complete decommissioning to NRC 24 standards        and  terminate        the  license      and  adequate 25 financial protection remains available on-site and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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46 1 off-site        commensurate        with      the    risk    of      the 2 decommissioning plant.
3                  Next slide.
4                  The    NRC      maintains          a    comprehensive 5 regulatory -- regulation-based framework to provide 6 assurance that the new licensee for a license transfer 7 maintains the financial means to safely decommission 8 the      facility  and    terminate        the      license.        This 9 framework      includes      consideration          for  spent      fuel 10 management and ISFSI decommissioning.                      ISFSI stands 11 for independent state -- I'm sorry; I've forgotten 12 again.
13                  MR. PARROTT:          Independent        Spent      Fuel 14 Storage Installation.
15                  MR. DUSANIWSKYJ:          Thank you.
16                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Also known as the dry 17 cask storage pad for us civilians.
18                  MR. DUSANIWSKYJ:          Yes.
19                  Through      our    operations,        licensees      are 20 required      to  certify      that      adequate        funding      for 21 decommissioning will be available when needed.                      For a 22 plant that is transitioned to decommissioning, the 23 same requirements apply and licensees provide evidence 24 of adequate -- adequate funding through annual reports 25 submitted      to  the    NRC.      These      reports    separately NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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47 1 provide        transparency      in    the      license  --  in      the 2 license's use of decommissioning trust funds, the 3 estimated costs for -- to complete decommissioning and 4 management of spent fuel, available funding to cover 5 these costs and any material changes to the trust 6 agreements or other allowable funding mechanisms. For 7 a    license    transfer,      these      responsibilities          are 8 incumbent on the new licensee.
9                  Next slide, please.
10                  And as -- as a summary of this, the NRC 11 regulations require licensees to maintain adequate 12 financial assurance for decommissioning at all times.
13 Oversight of financial assurance continues until a 14 license is terminated.            Licensees submit a financial 15 assurance        status    reports      annually.        The    report 16 includes amounts spent on decommissioning remaining 17 for trust fund balance and estimated cost to complete 18 decommissioning.            The    report        is  reviewed    for      a 19 reasonable          assurance          of      the    adequacy          of 20 decommissioning funding.
21                  And with that, I'll hand it over now to 22 Bruce.
23                  MR. WATSON:        Thank you, Mike.
24                  I  thought      I'd      conclude    our    --      our 25 presentation with a brief discussion on our inspection NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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48 1 program.        And I want to be clear that our inspection 2 program continues to ensure the safe decommissioning 3 of the site until the license is terminated.                      We have 4 a    dedicated      inspection        manual      chapter  for    power 5 reactor        decommissioning.            It's      available    on    our 6 website.        It's I.M.C., or Inspection Manual Chapter, 7 2561.        It contains core inspection procedures that 8 have      to  be  done    every      year      and  a  variety      of 9 discretionary inspection procedures which are done 10 commensurate with the work that is being performed.
11                    Our inspection frequency and the amount of 12 time we spend in the inspection process will be 13 commensurate with the amount of activities on-site.
14 So we will be coordinating closely with the licensee 15 performing the decommissioning activities. So they'll 16 see us a lot when there's a lot of activities going 17 on.        And they won't -- won't see us as often if 18 there's no activities or very little activities going 19 on.
20                    We are required to conduct the inspection 21 --        inspection    procedures        annually.        And    these 22 inspection -- our inspection reports are publicly 23 available unless they can turn -- contain information 24 that's specific to security or safeguards.
25                    So  with    that,    I'd      like  to  close      our NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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49 1 discussion.        I want to thank you for your -- for 2 listening.      And we look forward to your comments.
3                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:            Great; thank you very 4 much.
5                  What we're going to do now is take a very 6 short period of time to have the Panel ask questions 7 and comments.      And I'm going to tell everybody right 8 now not everyone is going to get to ask a question or 9 make a comment.      And what I would ask is, because our 10 time is so limited, that we keep them to, you know, 11 one or two minutes because we want to have enough time 12 for anyone and everyone in the public who wants to 13 make a comment or ask a question to do so.
14                  And I'm going to -- because I have the 15 mic, I'm going to ask the first question, which I know 16 is one that has come up with the public and members of 17 the Panel. And it's a question, I think, for the NRC, 18 NorthStar, and Entergy, if you all would like to 19 answer it.
20                  As the NRC just outlined, one of the main 21 points that you're going to look at is the financial 22 assurance that NorthStar gives you that they -- that 23 they      can complete    the    decommissioning          within      the 24 amount of money they say they are.                  And one of the big 25 questions that has come up is if the decommissioning NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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50 1 is    not    completed    and    the    money      and the  nuclear 2 decommissioning          trust      fund      runs    out,  who        is 3 responsible for paying for the -- the shortfall?
4                    And one of the issues, I think, that comes 5 up around this is, since Vermont Yankee is a merchant 6 plant, which means it's not getting any money from 7 ratepayers, there's no ratepayers to go back to -- to 8 get the money.        So I guess our question really is who 9 -- and we -- we know we've heard that there won't run 10 out of money, but there's concern here that there will 11 -- there could be a shortfall of funds.
12                    So we'd like to know who picks -- who's on 13 the hook for the money?
14                    MS. KOCK:      I keep forgetting to turn that 15 on.      I can start out and then turn it over to some of 16 our experts.        And then, I think, Kate, as you pointed 17 out, I think NorthStar would have a piece of this, 18 too.      So Scott will probably want to jump in there.
19                    But as far as the NRC is concerned --.
20                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:        Hey, Andrea.      I'm sorry; 21 can I -- everyone has to speak up a little because of 22 the rain.
23                    MS. KOCK:        It's raining.          Okay.      I'll 24 speak up.
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51 1 then turn it over to some of our experts.                    And I think 2 part of this can be answered by North -- NorthStar, as 3 well.
4                    From      the      NRC's        perspective,        the 5 responsibility for funding is with the licensee. It's 6 very clear and very straightforward.                        So for all 7 regulatory activities, we look to the licensee they 8 are responsible.          So if the license is transferred to 9 NorthStar, they're responsible for the funding.                          And 10 if there's a shortage, they're responsible for making 11 up that shortage.
12                    Our regulations require that they have 13 decommissioning financial assurance at all times.                          As 14 Mike laid out, we look at the transfer application 15 from the beginning to make sure there's adequate 16 funds.        But going forward, our regulations simply 17 state that you have to have adequate funding at all 18 times.        And if there is a gap or shortage, they're 19 required to make that up.              And the responsibility for 20 that would be NorthStar.
21                    As far as how they would make that up.                  I 22 think that's the piece that NorthStar could help you 23 understand what provisions or where they would look or 24 their contingency plan is for that. We simply set the 25 regulation to say they have to make that funding up.
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52 1                  I'll just add a few more points and then 2 turn it over to others to add on.                      As far as, you 3 know, what assurances do we have for decommissioning 4 financial assurance -- and I think we've touched on a 5 lot of these already.              As Mike mentioned, we have 6 ongoing        oversight      through      decommissioning.            So 7 annually, we look at how much is left in the fund, 8 what's their estimate for how much it's going to cost 9 to complete the decommissioning, and then we look to 10 see if there's any gap.            So it's not as if we look at 11 it once when the application -- when the transfer 12 occurs and then not again.
13                  We  also    do    a  thorough      review  at    the 14 beginning, as we mentioned, and then we do our annual 15 reviews.        The only other thing that I would add is --
16 I think Bruce mentioned this well.                    We have had ten 17 power reactors go into decommissioning and have their 18 licenses terminated.            In all cases, that's been done 19 safely and funding has been made available.                      Either 20 the fund was adequate from the beginning or if there 21 were shortages during the decommissioning period, 22 those funding shortages were made up.
23                  And again, how -- how those can be made 24 up, there's a variety of ways.                  I'll turn it over to 25 NorthStar to answer how they would look at that.                      But NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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53 1 people could have contingency funds.                  They could have 2 parent company guarantees.              There's a variety of ways 3 in which those funds could be made up.                      We don't 4 dictate how it be done, just that it would be done.
5                  MR. STATE:      I guess, I'll just add a few 6 comments about how NorthStar looks at this. So the --
7 you know, the front line of defense for us is we know 8 how much money is in the trust fund today.                  We can see 9 it.      We can call the bank and they can tell us.                  And 10 at      inception    of    this      project,      the  way    we've 11 established      our  --    our    work    and    the way    we    pay 12 ourselves, we are limited to the amount of money we 13 take out of the trust account by performance of the 14 work.
15                  So in our breakdown of this project, we've 16 got a little over nine hundred work elements.                    And if 17 we execute all nine hundreds of those work elements, 18 the site will be clean and it will be released for 19 unrestricted use.
20                  So when we broke it down into those work 21 elements, we assigned a cost to each of them.                            We 22 added all that cost up and that cost had to be less 23 than or equal to the amount of money we had to work 24 with to do the decommissioning.                So our first line of 25 defense is we simply don't take money out of the trust NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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54 1 fund unless we've actually executed the work that that 2 money is tied to.
3                And with that, you know, assurance that we 4 don't ever -- it's a performance-based assurance that 5 we don't ever take more money than work actually 6 performed, if you -- you know, if you track it all the 7 way through and we take out exactly the amount we say 8 we will for each of the work elements, and the work 9 element gets done, then we'll complete this project 10 within the amount of funding that we have.                  And the 11 certainty of us executing each of these work elements 12 for that cost is that we will provide a form of surety 13 or guarantee for performance of each of those work 14 elements as we do them.
15                So you know, that's what we view as the 16 most important way to do a project like this.                      And 17 it's, frankly, the way we do every project the company 18 conducts, nationwide, every day.                We work as a fixed 19 price contractor, doing work like this all the time.
20 And we worked to budgets on individual work elements.
21                Now, in the event that -- that somehow 22 there's a bust, and that doesn't work out, we've also 23 committed      one-hundred-twenty-five-million-dollar 24 performance assurance above and beyond the amount of 25 money that's in the trust fund.                And that will be a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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55 1 guarantee by the company.
2                    As we conduct this work, we actually will 3 be taking a percentage of all the funds that we remove 4 from the trust account and putting them into an 5 escrow.        And that's a cash first line of defense to 6 support the -- the -- any needed cash obligations that 7 might be above and beyond the nuclear decommissioning 8 trust.        So you know, it's kind of a two-step process.
9 It's a process of limiting cost and then a process of 10 making additional financial capability available above 11 and beyond the funds that we know are present today.
12                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
13                    Bill?
14                    MR. JORDAN:        Yes; thank you. This is, 15 likewise, likely to be answered by the Panel, NRC, 16 Entergy, and NorthStar, and really dovetails to Kate's 17 question and also to my sincere pleasure to hear that 18 the site could be available to this community for 19 other uses much sooner than originally planned.                  And 20 I hope that that does come to pass.
21                    An -- an obstacle to that, in my mind, is 22 represented at the Connecticut Yankee facility, Yankee 23 Rowe facility, and the Maine Yankee facility where 24 there are many more acres of land, and yet, the ISFSI 25 remains and no development has occurred on any of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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56 1 those three plots of land.
2                  So my question is does the NRC have any 3 practical limitations with a site of about one hundred 4 twenty to a hundred thirty acres, some of which is 5 going to be taken up by the electric infrastructure of 6 the switch yard and also by the ISFSI, of having 7 another -- some other development on the remaining 8 plot of land that was released for unrestricted use.
9                  And two, does NorthStar feel confident 10 that, unlike the other owners of plants around New 11 England, they will be able to find a means by which 12 that land can be put back to productive use?
13                  MR. WATSON:        Yeah, this is Bruce Watson.
14 I    --    I think  that    the    plants      that  have    been 15 decommissioned -- as I said, that they all have been 16 decommissioned for unrestricted use.                  So it's really 17 up to the owner what they want to do.                  About a third 18 of them had additional generation facilities placed on 19 them, built on them, and -- and back into generating 20 power because they do have the grid infrastructure 21 there, they do have a source of cooling water, and 22 they previously had an environmental impact statement 23 for an operating nuclear power plant.                  So about one-24 third add generating capacity to the site.
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57 1 with the site, which would include Connecticut Yankee 2 and a few others.            At Maine Yankee, they've chosen to 3 make part of the land a park.                    I think they donated 4 part of the land to a nonprofit organization, I think 5 dedicated to naturalization of the -- of the land. So 6 it's an -- it's a mixed bag on what happens with the 7 property once the license is terminated.
8                    Granted,      the    dry    storage      facility      is 9 there.        It is still under a license.                We have strict 10 requirements for that security of that facility.                            So 11 yes, some of the land is taken up for that particular 12 purpose.          But  from    the    NRC's      view    is  that      the 13 remaining lands that are not required to be under the 14 license        are  available        for    any      --  any  --      any 15 development or unrestricted use that the owner would 16 have for that.
17                    So I hope I answered that part of the 18 question.
19                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:            Yes?      Wait one second 20 because we're going to let somebody --.
21                    UNIDENTIFIED          SPEAKER:          Counting      our 22 chickens here          --?
23                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:            Well, wait one second.
24 We got to -- we've got to get the full answer here.
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58 1 three facilities you mentioned, I've been -- I haven't 2 been to Connecticut Yankee site.                I've been to Yankee 3 Rowe. I've been to Maine Yankee. You know, those are 4 somewhat remote locations, somewhat remote sites.
5 And, you know, the ownership structure there is you 6 still have utility owners or cooperatives, in essence, 7 multiple parties that own those sites.                And I think, 8 as a result, you know, they're people that operate or 9 -- or there are cooperatives that were formed to 10 operate these plants.          I'm not sure that any one of 11 those individual utilities has any specific desire to 12 do anything with those sites.
13                We're commercially a very different setup.
14 You know, we are not interested in being the long-term 15 owner and developer of the site after it's clean.
16 What we're interested in doing is working with the 17 local community to find the highest and best use of 18 the property.
19                We've heard suggestions of, you know, 20 potentially looking at a micro-grid.                That could be a 21 great idea. We've suggested a solar facility might be 22 an option there. But we're not wedded to any specific 23 future use, but we are wedded to finding a future use.
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59 1 potential.
2                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Great.      Thank you.
3                    Does anyone on this side --?
4                    SENATOR MACDONALD: I'm surprised we would 5 be using this time to discuss what to do with a site 6 that may or may not be cleaned up.                          And that is 7 premature.        I've been doing this job long enough to 8 have been to this point, several times, with the NRC.
9 And on the original sale of Vermont Yankee to Entergy, 10 we      were    given    assurances        by      the  NRC  that      the 11 decommissioning          fund    was    adequate,      that  the      new 12 operation would provide benefits to the state of 13 Vermont, there would be additional revenues to put 14 into the cleanup.
15                    And what happened was, at Vermont, the 16 owners shipped all the profits out of state and left 17 the decommissioning fund inadequate enough so that 18 tonight we're here discussing how to clean the place 19 up.
20                    The second time we arrived at this point 21 was when the owners of the plant came in and asked to 22 do an up-rate.        And your advisory Panel that preceded 23 this one recommended in a vote not to do the up-rate 24 because        the  decommissioning          fund    was  inadequate 25 because the NRC assured us that there would be a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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60 1 depository for nuclear waste available if we did an --
2 an up-rate. And your Nuclear Advisory Panel said that 3 that would not happen.
4                  And the NRC gave us assurances that there 5 would be a place to send the waste, and despite the 6 recommendation that the assurances were not worth --
7 the assurances failed to materialize, no additional 8 funds were required from the owners to be put into 9 decommissioning to cover the additional waste.                        That 10 was the second time we were here.
11                  The third time, Madam Chair, we arrived at 12 this position was when the owners asked for a license 13 extension.        And the owners had made a commitment to 14 the State of Vermont to the Legislature, a handshake 15 and a widely understood agreement that the owners 16 would not ask to extend the license without the 17 permission of the State and the Legislature. And when 18 the owners didn't get permission, the owners went to 19 court to undo the bargain that they had offered.
20                  And each time, the owners had slide shows 21 like the one we had tonight, had pictures in the back 22 of      the    room,  and    touted      their      expertise,    their 23 professionalism, their ability to deliver on promises.
24                  And the Chair has asked what happens if a 25 company like NorthStar, a relatively new company with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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61 1 no deep pockets, sold the plant and fails to complete 2 the cleanup, who is left holding the bag.                  And, Madam 3 Chair, the reason I asked that question was when an 4 up-rate was being discussed and your VSNAP panel said 5 don't do the up-rate unless the NRC can tell us what 6 will happen and who will pay and who will be left 7 holding the bag if there is no National Nuclear 8 Depository.
9                  And those that make these decisions were 10 persuaded to accept the assurance of the NRC and to 11 trust the owners that things would turn out all right.
12                  And we are here today because of -- this 13 is about the fourth time that I have served where 14 we're given a slideshow, promises, guarantees that 15 these people are more clever, better accountants, and 16 more responsible than their predecessors. And they're 17 asking us to sign off on a recommendation.
18                  But if this doesn't work, the answer is 19 the      NRC  doesn't    have      a  rule      for  who  will      be 20 responsible.        The rule is the people who would be 21 responsible are the people that have no money.                    Madam 22 Chair, I say that because when -- when, in the past, 23 the      NRC  told  us    that      there      will  be  a  nuclear 24 depository available for the waste by a certain year, 25 and we said we don't believe you, and they said that's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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62 1 our rule, there must be, you're not going to get left 2 holding the bag.          And when it became clear that there 3 was no nuclear depository available, they, the NRC, 4 changed its rule.
5                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          I don't want to cut you 6 off, but --.
7                    SENATOR MACDONALD: You would like to talk 8 about what we're going to do with this plant after 9 it's been cleaned up?
10                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Yeah.
11                    SENATOR MACDONALD: Instead of what is the 12 guarantee that we're going to be -- this is going to 13 be cleaned up and that the NRC, who writes the rules 14 we have to obey, writes a rule for this other than 15 that the people that have no money are responsible.
16                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
17                    I mean I -- I don't know if there's --
18 you've -- you answered the question when I asked about 19 who's on the hook.            I don't know if you want to add 20 anything?
21                    MS. KOCK:          No, I didn't want to add 22 anything.          I  just    wanted      to    clarify one    thing 23 unrelated to the funding issue, which is that the NRC 24 doesn't -- does not set the policy for when and where 25 there        will  be    a    national        depository.        We're NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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63 1 responsible for reviewing any application we might get 2 for a repository, making sure that it's safe, and 3 issuing a license if we think it's appropriate.                          But 4 we do not set the national policy on whether there 5 will be a repository, where it will be, or when it 6 will be.          That is not something that's within our 7 control or authority.            So I just wanted to make that 8 one clarification, but nothing else to add.                          Thank 9 you.
10                    SENATOR MACDONALD:            That's --.
11                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
12                    SENATOR MACDONALD:              That's true, Madam 13 Chair.        But they assured us, while they don't set the 14 policy, that someone else did -- they assured us that 15 there would be a depository there.                        They gave us 16 their assurance. They don't make the policy, but they 17 gave us the assurance.            And when it failed, they made 18 up a new set of rules to allow a hundred years for --
19 for getting rid of the waste.
20                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
21                    Chris?
22                    MR. CAMPANY:          Chris      Campany,  Windham 23 Regional Commission.              The Town of Vernon asked the 24 Windham Regional -- or had initial planning grant to 25 have      the    Windham    Regional      Commission      prepare      a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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64 1 resilience plan for what would happen when the plant 2 would eventually close.          And this was back in 2012.
3                And I just want to see if you can add any 4 clarity of as far as when the site might be released 5 with the presence of the ISFSI there?              On June 12th, 6 2012, I had a phone conversation with Ronald Bellamy, 7 Chief Reactor Project Branch of NRC, Region One.                And 8 he said that as long as the ISFSI was there after 9 decommissioning, that it would be unlikely the site 10 would be able to be released for reuse.              So that was 11 from -- I think -- I think he's retired now and he 12 can't be here to explain his logic.
13                But I just wondered what you might want to 14 add or what your position would -- might be now?
15                MR. WATSON:        I can't comment on what the 16 conversation was with Mr. Bellamy, back then. But any 17 land that is taken off the license, with the exception 18 of the license property, which is the dry storage 19 facility, it will be -- I guess, should say is planned 20 to be released for unrestricted use, which means it 21 can be used for anything that the owner or the town or 22 whatever choose to do, whoever controls the property 23 rights to that piece of land.
24                Yes, the ISFSI will be there until the 25 Department of Energy removes the fuel.            At that time, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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65 1 when the fuel's removed, the -- the actual facility 2 will be decommissioned.            And then the entire piece of 3 property will be available for, I would believe at 4 that point, unrestricted use and for development for 5 whatever purpose the owners would have.
6                  So, you know, I can't comment on the basis 7 of the conversation you had with him.                But like I 8 said, at other facilities, the -- the remaining pieces 9 of land have been -- have been -- added generating 10 plants and -- and used for other purposes.              And some 11 have chose not to use the property at all for -- just 12 letting it sit for right now so.
13                  MR. CAMPANY:        So I just -- so, Kate, can 14 I ask just a follow-up?            So -- so, I guess what I'm --
15 so what's the -- like the security perimeter likely to 16 be around the ISFSI?            I mean, how much of the site 17 would likely be available?
18                  I'm asking you because -- one of the 19 reasons, when we went to Connecticut Yankee, one of 20 the reasons why they moved the spent fuel so far away 21 from the site was to facilitate redevelopment of that 22 site.        And they did that at a considerable expense to 23 move that away.        I thought that was -- and I thought 24 at Maine Yankee that was part of the reason, too, for 25 removing the spent fuel pretty far away, so they could NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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66 1 really -- and of course, those are much larger sites 2 and then V.Y. So what would you anticipate like this, 3 the perimeter might be around the ISFSI?
4                MR. WATSON:      I really can't really answer 5 that because I -- we don't normally look into ISFSIs 6 too much.      But I'm sure that there's a certain amount 7 of land that's required for the security plan around 8 it to be under the owner control to make sure that the 9 people who are providing security and for the facility 10 have adequate time to respond to any threats.
11                I  can    tell    you    that      the  facility      at 12 Connecticut      Yankee,    the    dry  storage      facility      was 13 purposely moved up on the hill because the original 14 location had it down in a valley.                  And they thought 15 that was a -- not a wise decision for the actual 16 security of the facility, and that the better place 17 would be up on the hill so that it was on high land 18 for -- for security reasons.
19                So I hope that answers your question to 20 the best I can -- can do today.
21                CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. We'd have one more 22 Panel question.      We'll let Jim Matteau.
23                MR. MATTEAU:        Thank you.
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67 1 together.      The first one for NorthStar.
2                Not -- not knowing the details of the 3 commitment,      I  understand        the      --  the  price      per 4 component      and  everything,        and      that's  --    that's 5 encouraging.      I'm really optimistic about that.                  But 6 is there anywhere in there, if you encounter something 7 significant that you could make a clear case was 8 reasonably not foreseeable, is there any way for you 9 to go back and seek an increase allotment for that 10 component, which it seems to me would, in turn, 11 jeopardize -- could jeopardize the balance of the 12 trust fund?
13                And the second question for the NRC is, if 14 something like that were to happen or, for whatever 15 reason, it got to the point that there wasn't enough 16 money to complete the decom, would it be possible for 17 the owner to apply to go back -- excuse me -- to go 18 back into SAFSTOR?        That's a one-word answer.
19                MR. STATE:        So the -- the -- the first 20 issue you raised is if -- if -- I think you're saying 21 if we find an unknown source of contamination or 22 something. If -- if we simply execute poorly, we have 23 no recourse to anyone for anything.                    If, in fact, 24 during a certain specified period of time, we find 25 contamination that was undisclosed as part of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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68 1 transaction, we've got a level of indemnification from 2 the seller. That doesn't go on forever. That goes on 3 for a certain period of time.
4                  So, you know, it behooves us early on in 5 this      process  to    make      sure    we've    got  the      best 6 characterization we can and determine if there's any 7 unknown contamination that -- that was not disclosed 8 to us.
9                  If, in fact, we go through the process and 10 we find unknown contamination after a certain date, 11 it's our obligation to remove that.                    And we have to 12 remove that to, you know, achieve what the objective 13 here, which is unrestricted use of the site.
14                  So,  you    know,      we've      done  a  lot      of 15 facilities like this and we've got a pretty good idea 16 if there should be or would be certain types of 17 contamination. These are not hard things to find. We 18 know what the site was used for.                  We know, generally, 19 you know, what kinds of things were at the site.
20                  I can tell you that large sites that had 21 large motor pools, a lot of times, are really bad 22 sites because, you know, back in the day you just 23 threw out the back door and now it's all over in the 24 groundwater.
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69 1 site. We think those are pretty well documented. And 2 we will certainly do a high level of investigation 3 upon ownership to confirm all of that -- all of the 4 facts        that  --  that    we've      got.        But, you    know, 5 generally, we feel like there aren't any of those 6 really big gotchas out there. But if there are, we do 7 have a certain ability to protect ourselves, you know, 8 day one, for those types of things.
9                  MR. SACHS:        Uh --.
10                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Hey, Gary, we're trying 11 to do our meeting, so let the NRC -- there will be 12 public comment in a minute.
13                  MR. SACHS:        (Off mic)          Can I --
14                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Yes -- yes, please do.
15                  Okay. Please go on, Bruce.
16                  MR. WATSON:        Obviously, the NRC's view of 17 the decommissioning is that the decommissioning has to 18 be completed in sixty years.                So given the fact that 19 this is the business model that NorthStar is taking, 20 they're using to -- to actually take the sale of the 21 property, it's their risk they're taking in doing 22 their review of the site to ensure that they can meet 23 the commitments that they're telling us in the -- in 24 the documents in the -- in the financial information.
25                  So    for    many,      like        previous  license NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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70 1 transfers, we would have expected them to do their due 2 diligence        to  protect    themselves,          review  the    site 3 history, look at the characterization to ensure that 4 they -- they have a good assurance that they can clean 5 up the site within the funds.
6                    Back    in    2012,      we      strengthened        our 7 decommissioning regulations.                  We actually call it the 8 Decommissioning Planning Rule.                    And it required that 9 the sites do additional groundwater monitoring close 10 to sites which could produce contamination into the 11 environment so it would be discovered early.                        I think 12 that      enhanced    the    ability      to    prevent    a    lot      of 13 underground soil contamination, which has been found 14 at      a    few    of  the    sites      that      were  previously 15 decommissioned.
16                    So these -- these regulations enable the 17 owner or the operator at the time, the licensee, to 18 find contamination and make a determination whether 19 they need to clean it up now or later.
20                    So the answer is yes, they could go into 21 a SAFSTOR situation, do -- for -- for whatever reason 22 they choose to.          But as I think that's their choice.
23 But      in    this  particular        case,      they're    telling        us 24 they're planning to the clean the site up from a 25 radiological standpoint by 2026.
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71 1                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:        Okay.      We have one quick 2 follow-up.        Then we have to move on.
3                    MR. WALKE:        Mr. State, I just want to 4 follow-up quickly on the point about you're going to 5 do your due diligence post-transfer.                      We've talked 6 about        phase  one    complete      before      transfer  of    the 7 environments non-radiological environmental review.
8 As the state agency is responsible for the non-9 radiological piece, it -- it seems to me that the --
10 the      that I have about the risk associated with the 11 transfer is related to why wouldn't we want to do that 12 diligence up front and know that information from the 13 phase two prior to transfer, so you know what the 14 gotchas are and we have come -- more comfort into the 15 financial resources?
16                    MR. WATSON:          I'd like to add one more 17 piece to -- to my previous comment, in that the NRC 18 regulations require that any incident or -- I'll call 19 it event that would result in information that would 20 be      important      --      in      particular,        radiological 21 information          that      would      be      important    to      the 22 decommissioning of the future of the site be recorded.
23 24                    And so we do have a requirement that if 25 they had a spill or -- or a contamination that that'd NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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72 1 be well-documented in the record for the site history.
2 And so that's one area that could be looked at from a 3 radiological standpoint.
4                MR. TWOMEY:        At -- at one level, there 5 have been numerous evaluations of the conditions on 6 that site. Certainly, the prior owners before Entergy 7 had an obligation to maintain their compliance with 8 all the NRC --
9                MR. SACHS:      (Off mic) 10                MR. TWOMEY:        -- all of the requirements 11 that they had to comply with for the NRC          When we --
12 when Entergy bought the facility in 2002, we did a 13 comprehensive due diligence prior to that sale.                And 14 then --
15                MR. SACHS:      (Off mic) 16                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Hey, Gary.
17                MR. TWOMEY:        -- we also did --
18                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Gary.
19                MR. TWOMEY:        -- we also did a --
20                MR. SACHS:      Could you speak up?
21                MR. TWOMEY:        -- site assessment study in 22 2014.
23                MR. SACHS:      Is there a reason you won't 24 speak up?
25                MR. TWOMEY:        Is there a reason --
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73 1                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Could everybody --?
2                MR. TWOMEY:        -- you're interrupting me?
3                CHAIR    O'CONNOR:            Yeah, please    don't 4 interrupt.
5                MR. SACHS:        I can't hear you.        There's 6 nothing to interrupt.
7                UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER:            (Off mic) 8                CHAIR O'CONNOR:        Well, we're going to let 9 him finish the question, so we can move on.
10                MR. SACHS:      (Off mic) 11                MR. TWOMEY:        We did a comprehensive site 12 assessment study in 2014.            And then NorthStar's been 13 doing their own due diligence as we've been working on 14 this transaction.
15                And I'll let Scott speak to the level of 16 due diligence they've done.
17                MR. STATE:      It -- it -- I don't want you 18 to misinterpret what I said before. It's not as if we 19 haven't done any due diligence or -- or done any level 20 of evaluation.      I was speaking merely to, you know, 21 post-closing and opening of structures and doing a 22 very invasive testing that you wouldn't do prior to 23 closing of a transaction to, you know, get absolute 24 confirmation of what we believe to be true today.
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74 1 past -- past practices and past evaluations and data 2 that's been generated from prior work on the site.
3 And you know, we will continue to do that kind of 4 work.        We've continued to do due diligence.                  We are 5 initiating certain work activities, the second half of 6 this year and all next year, running up to the closing 7 of the transaction.
8                    So we're not just sitting idly, hoping 9 there's nothing there.                We are doing, you know, a 10 substantial amount of work to verify the condition of 11 the site at closing.
12                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
13                    I think what we're going to do right now 14 is take a five-minute break.                So at seven forty-five, 15 we're going to take public comment and questions. And 16 if you want to make a comment or ask a question, there 17 are signup sheets right over there.                      So in -- we'll 18 take five minutes.
19                    (Off the record) 20                    (The meeting resumed.)
21                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Okay.      Now, what we're 22 going to do is take comments or questions from the 23 public.        And I just want to remind everybody that the 24 NRC is here because it's the official public comment 25 period        on  the  license        transfer        application      that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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75 1 Entergy and NorthStar has filed. And that, of course, 2 is about the sale.
3                  What I'm going to ask is when you come up, 4 if you could state your name and what town or state 5 and/or state you are from.                It is being recorded by 6 the NRC.        And as Andrea said earlier, you don't -- if 7 you speak tonight, you do not have to send written 8 comments to the NRC.            But if you choose not to speak 9 tonight, there is a mechanism that you can go online 10 on the NRC website and either email a comment in or 11 you can do a written comment.                And those comments are 12 due by June 23rd.
13                  I also want to remind everyone that while 14 you may pose a question to the NRC, again I think 15 Andrea stressed this, is that they are still in the 16 process of reviewing the license transfer application.
17 So they may not have an answer for you because they 18 haven't finished the review.
19                  I would also ask that if people can keep 20 their comments down to two or three minutes, we'd 21 appreciate it so we can move the meeting along.                    And 22 again, I want to remind everyone that this is a 23 meeting        of  the    Nuclear      Decommissioning    Citizens 24 Advisory Panel. And we run by Robert's Rules of Order 25 and our charter and I just ask everyone to respect NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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76 1 that you are at a Panel meeting and respect all your 2 fellow        commenters    or  people      that    are  here      this 3 evening.
4                    And I'm going to call people's names in no 5 particular order, so I don't want anyone to think you 6 -- I'm playing favorites in any way. And what I'll do 7 is I'll, maybe, call two names at a time so the next 8 person knows that it's their -- their shot.
9                    The first up is going to be Skyler Gould.
10 And then second is Brad Ferlin. And again, if you can 11 say your name and your town and state, so we have it 12 in the record.          Yes?
13                    MR. GOULD:        All right.        Thank you very 14 much.
15                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:            You may have to talk 16 louder than usual because of the rain on the --.
17                    MR. GOULD:          I'm      Skyler  Gould        of 18 Brattleboro        --  I'm      Skyler      Gould.        I  live        in 19 Brattleboro these days. Thanks very much for allowing 20 us to come here tonight.
21                    I have a couple of quick questions.                    Has 22 the NRC approved the new Holtec dry cask design which 23 would allow the earlier unloading of fuel beyond --
24 shorter than the usual five-year cooling off period?
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77 1 -- I think what I want to do is have you ask all the 2 questions?
3                MR. GOULD:      Okay.
4                CHAIR O'CONNOR: So you could ask all your 5 questions and then they can answer all at the same 6 time.
7                MR. GOULD:        And another is -- is there 8 some reason the comment period has been reduced from 9 the normal sixty days to thirty days?                      Twenty or 10 thirty days, I'm not sure.              I think I heard thirty 11 this evening.
12                A more difficult question. On March 29th, 13 just this year, a judge in the Court of Chancery, of 14 the state of Delaware -- I have the opinion -- found 15 that one of the two members of the NorthStar Group 16 Holdings, of which Scott State is the current C.E.O.
17 -- current corporate members, I'm quoting here, has 18 adequately alleged facts that, if true, demonstrate 19 fraudulent representation, unquote.
20                This is a charge by the other member of 21 NorthStar Group Holdings.            So basically there are two 22 members of NorthStar Group Holdings.                  One is accusing 23 the      other of    fraud.          Excuse        me. NorthStar 24 Decommissioning        Holdings,        the      limited  liability 25 corporation incorporated -- incorporated last November NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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78 1 which is seeking to purchase Vermont Yankee from 2 Entergy is owned by NorthStar Group Services, which is 3 owned by L.V.I. parent corporation. which is owned by 4 NorthStar Group Holdings. which is at the heart of 5 this fraud case, they're seeking over two hundred and 6 thirteen million dollars in damages.
7                  Essentially, Scott State and his -- his 8 member of the NorthStar Group Holdings are accused of 9 misrepresenting their corporate members' assets and 10 liabilities to the tune of two hundred and thirteen 11 million dollars.        So my question to the NRC is do the 12 facts of this case --?
13                  MR. SACHS:      Did you know this?
14                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Gary --.
15                  MR. GOULD: Gary, please, give me a break.
16                  Do the facts of this case concern the 17 Commission and will the Commission fully consider this 18 above-mentioned suit and what it may say about the 19 integrity of the terms of the proposed sale?
20                  And secondly, is the Commission confident 21 that should the plaintiff in the above case prevail, 22 which the judge in the case has concluded is enough of 23 a possibility to allow the case to go forward, will 24 the structural integrity of the NorthStar Enterprise 25 --      the    larger    NorthStar        Enterprise allow      the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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79 1 decommissioning      of    --    of    Vermont      Yankee    to      be 2 completed according to regulatory requirements? Thank 3 you.
4                MR. WATSON:      Yes, I'll try and answer the 5 questions in order.        First of all, the Holtec change, 6 I think that's still under technical review.
7                MR. GOULD:          So is it conceivable, if 8 that's not approved, that that will delay --?
9                MR. WATSON:      Well, it isn't approved yet, 10 nor is it denied.      So it's still under review.              Okay?
11                The requirement for a public period for a 12 license transfer is thirty days in the regulations.
13 So that's what's -- that what's published in the 14 Federal Registry so.
15                MR. GOULD:      Excuse me.          I understand.        It 16 was never sixty days?
17                MR. WATSON:        No; it's thirty days.
18                MR. GOULD:      Excuse me.          I see.
19                MR. WATSON:        And in response to the -- I 20 guess, the lawsuit you're -- yeah, we have no real 21 comment on it.      That is not part of our review.                  The 22 only comment I would have as a person that is an 23 accusation of -- of wrongdoing is not -- not an 24 assessment of guilt until the court decides it.                        So 25 it's not part of our review at all.
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80 1                MR. GOULD:      Thank you.
2                CHAIR O'CONNOR:        And I do want to say one 3 thing that we as a -- we as a Panel can request an 4 extension on public comment period if we needed to 5 because we've done that in the past.                  So that is an 6 option.
7                MR. FERLIN: Yeah. Good evening. My name 8 is Brad Ferlin.      I live in Fairfax, Vermont, born in 9 Burlington, Vermont.          I serve as President of the 10 Vermont Energy Partnership.            I want to thank Kate for 11 hosting this meeting, and NDCAP.                We appreciate that.
12 And we welcome the NRC.
13                We've testified before you a number of 14 times over the years and welcome you back to Vermont.
15                The Vermont Energy Partnership was formed 16 in 2005, largely through the foresight of Governor 17 Thomas Salmon. We're comprised of a diverse group of 18 business, labor, and community leaders.                And over the 19 years, the Vermont Energy Partnership was a strong 20 advocate for Vermont Yankee as an economic engine, a 21 job provider for not only Windham County, but for the 22 State of Vermont, supplying low cost power.                    And we 23 were in support of that.
24                One of the things we heard over the years 25 in debate was if Vermont Yankee closed, that an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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81 1 accelerated decommissioning would be desired.                    And lo 2 and behold, with NorthStar here, this -- this promise 3 or this desire can actually be met.                  So -- and to make 4 the site available for future economic uses.                        So we 5 view this new opportunity of having Vermont Yankee 6 acquired by NorthStar and have them put in place this 7 accelerated and safe decommissioning process as great 8 news for Vermont.
9                  We've had the opportunity to meet with 10 NorthStar officials on a number of occasions and hear 11 explanations of how they plan to operate in Vermont 12 and decommission Vermont Yankee.                    We appreciate the 13 fact that it's going to provide, in segments, jobs and 14 economic stimulus for -- for the region and for the 15 state.
16                  And so for the NRC we hope that NorthStar 17 is      properly  vetted      by    this    process      in  a    fair, 18 reasonable, and timely manner -- timely manner, and 19 that a green light is given to the sale and it signals 20 to all an economic boost to Windham County and that 21 you can do business in Vermont.
22                  So we thank you.
23                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Great.      Thank you very 24 much.
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82 1 people's names.            Meredith Angwin and then Robert 2 Stewart?
3                  MS. ANGWIN:        Hello; my name is Meredith 4 Angwin and I live in -- I live in Wilder, Vermont.
5 And I have blogged for many years at Yes Vermont 6 Yankee in case people are wondering what side of the 7 fence I'm on.
8                  I would like to just make a comment about 9 the decommissioning. And that is that while the plant 10 was still running and Governor Shumlin -- at that 11 point he was governor, right -- was very much against 12 it.      And he said, at one point in a press conference, 13 that if Vermont Yankee was decommissioned, it would be 14 a huge jobs bonus for this area. It would be fabulous 15 and it wouldn't actually lay people off because it 16 would take the plant a couple years to cool down and 17 people would still be employed.                  He -- the polite way 18 to describe this sort of thing is that he pulled this 19 stuff out of the air.            That's the polite way.
20                  At any rate, I was very interested in his 21 comments and I tried to figure out what actually 22 happened in decommissioning.                    And then during the 23 course of this, I interviewed a lot of people at three 24 Yankees, at Energy Solutions, I read articles from 25 EPRI.        I read articles from all over the place.                  I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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83 1 used to work in the nuclear industry, so I can figure 2 some of these things out.
3                  And what I found out was that a lot of the 4 data that I would've liked to find, but was really 5 very      wrapped    up  in    --    in    the      economics    of    the 6 different companies doing the decommissioning and was 7 proprietary.        So the idea that this particular case, 8 there was proprietary economic data and that's so --
9 so shocking to some people, it's just standard.                              I 10 mean,        I  wish  it    wasn't      --    sometimes      it    wasn't 11 standard.
12                  For example, I would have -- I wanted to 13 know what percentage of the decommissioning money 14 actually went to truck drivers and to transport, as 15 opposed to people working on the site.                          This is 16 proprietary data.          I was told that by everybody and I 17 think it's true and I think companies have a right to 18 proprietary data.          I -- my -- my point isn't that we 19 should look more or look harder or look this or look 20 that.
21                  My point is that decommissioning and many 22 other processes like this do have propriety economic 23 data.        This is not the first time.                As I say, I was 24 looking all over the country for this kind of data.
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84 1 it's handled.
2                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Great. Thank you.
3                  I  have    Robert    Stewart      and then    Patty 4 O'Donnell.
5                  MR. STEWART:          Yes, I'm Robert Stewart, 6 although I go by Jake.                And I live in Brookfield, 7 Vermont.      I'm a professional engineer and I've been 8 concerned about radioactivity ever since the plant 9 started operation.
10                  And I'm particularly concerned now, among 11 other things, but about the rubblization.                    If that 12 becomes a possibility, I think that's a big mistake to 13 leave radioactive material on-site.                    Even if it's 14 diluted with other less radioactive material to dilute 15 it, I think it all should be removed.
16                  The -- you know, diluting it is really not 17 a    solution.      And    the    radioactive      isotopes    will 18 migrate. They will get into the Connecticut River and 19 already are.      And the -- they also will get into the 20 aquifer. They cannot be stopped. So I think the less 21 material that's radioactive on-site, the better.                      So 22 I hope that all of that material will be, as much as 23 possible, can be removed.              Thank You.
24                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
25                  We'll have, after Patty, Janet Rasmussen.
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85 1                  MS. O'DONNELL:        Good evening.      Thank you 2 so much for coming here tonight and giving us the 3 opportunity to speak to you. As Kate said, my name is 4 Patty O'Donnell.          I have -- I come from the Town of 5 Vernon and I have over twenty years of experience of 6 representing the Town of Vernon in one way or another.
7 I've served on the school board, the select board, and 8 I've been a state representative for twelve years.
9                  And I have to say coming from Vernon is 10 not always an easy thing.              It's not always easy to be 11 the town with the nuclear power plant, although we 12 have felt for years that we certainly helped the state 13 out and are reaching out in many, many ways.
14                  Closing Vermont Yankee has been a very, 15 very difficult thing for my town.                    It's really hard 16 for a town of twenty-one hundred people to try to 17 figure out how do you go on.                      The most important 18 people        in  this    whole      process,        in  this    whole 19 conversation, the ones who are going to benefit or 20 hurt the most by the decisions that are made here, is 21 the Town of Vernon.              It's our community.              We've 22 struggled through an awful lot and it's time to allow 23 us to go on to our future.                  And going on to that 24 future is decommissioning that plant.
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86 1 years, we want that plant decommissioned, we want that 2 plant closed.      Well, they got their way; the plant is 3 closed.        Now, we want our way.              We want a viable, 4 fair, honest looking into the proposal. If everything 5 works out well, we want the plant decommissioned as 6 fast as we can.      You will hear after, peers of mine in 7 Vernon will tell you about our plans for the future 8 and how we've been working very hard in our planning 9 commission to reinvent ourselves, but nothing can be 10 done until the plant is gone.
11                  We have already developed or started to 12 develop a relationship with -- with Scott.                  We had a 13 wonderful relationship with Vermont Yankee. I know we 14 will continue our relationship with NorthStar.                        And 15 they're already working with us.                  But please, give us 16 a chance for a future.            We certainly have given our 17 state enough in the last forty-two years.
18                  MS. RASMUSSEN:              Janet    Rasmussen,        a 19 resident of Vernon and a member of the Vernon Planning 20 Commission.        I think Patty said everything far more 21 elegantly than I could.
22                  FROM THE AUDIENCE:            No one can hear you, 23 ma'am.
24                  MS. RASMUSSEN:        I'm Janet Rasmussen.          I'm 25 a resident of Vernon and also a member of the Planning NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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87 1 Commission. I think Patty O'Donnell said what I would 2 like to say a lot more elegantly than I could.
3                  But what I really want to underscore is we 4 live in Vernon.          We work in Vernon.            Our economic 5 future is dependent on this plant being -- plant being 6 decommissioned as quickly as possible, but also as 7 safely as possible.
8                  No one has a seat closer at the table than 9 we should, because we live there.                    We are -- the 10 Planning Commission has become intervenors in the 11 process.        We are -- we will read everything that we 12 can.      We have had permission from the select board to 13 hire experts, if we can, to help us through the 14 process.
15                  We're encouraged about the process thus 16 far and we hope that we are allowed to have a fair 17 hearing.      And please know no one wants this to happen 18 more than us, economically and safely.                  Thank you.
19                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
20                  Howard Shaffer and then Madeline Arms?
21 And because it's raining, you do have to yell a little 22 bit louder into the microphone.
23                  Howard's passing.          So does Maddie want to 24 go next?      And next up is going to be Lissa Weinmann.
25                  MS. ARMS:      Madeline Arms, Town of Vernon NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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88 1 resident and also member of the Planning Commission.
2 Thank        you very,    very    much    for      coming  here,      and 3 listening to everyone, and taking all of our opinions 4 and our hopes and our dreams into your consideration.
5                  I certainly would like to add my support 6 to what Patty and Janet have said.                    This has been a 7 topic of much discussion in the Planning Commission 8 and throughout the Town of Vernon.                    And I sincerely 9 believe that it will not be just the Town of Vernon 10 that benefits from this revitalization. It's going to 11 spread to the surrounding towns and to actually the 12 whole state of Vermont, as well. Thank you very much.
13                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
14                  Lissa?
15                  MS. WEINMANN:          Hi; I'm Lissa Weinmann.
16 I'm a resident of Brattleboro and, again, I, too, 17 appreciate you coming here tonight to hear views from 18 our community.
19                  I would say that in my view the Town of 20 Brattleboro is really the host town for the reactor.
21 Vernon is -- is the town where it is, but it's really 22 the Town of Brattleboro that -- that absorbs a lot of 23 the -- the emergency preparedness and other things 24 that have to do with the plant really emanate from 25 Brattleboro.          So  I    would    say      that,  in  my    view, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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89 1 Brattleboro is the town of record here, more than 2 Vernon.
3                    But I have a couple of things I just want 4 to say, quickly, which is I think that in this process 5 really when there is a license transfer that a new 6 P.S.D.A.R. should be completed.                    I think it's a new 7 entity and really demands that a new P.S.D.A.R. be put 8 forth and not just a revised one.
9                    I would also say that I have a lot of 10 issues with the cost of the decommissioning.                    Entergy 11 thought it was going to be one point two billion. Our 12 Public        Service    Department          did      an  independent 13 assessment and they thought it would be along the 14 lines        of  two  billion      to    --    to    decommission      the 15 reactor.        So those numbers are so wildly different, 16 it's hard for the public to really reconcile what is 17 real here.
18                    I know that the overhead is going to come 19 down and there's a lot of reasons why it's lower, but 20 that's a lot lower.            And that calls into question the 21 credibility of the numbers in my mind.
22                    I just want to say also that I do believe 23 that as long as the spent fuel is in the pool and the 24 whole process of moving the fuel to dry fuel storage 25 means        that  we  should      have    an    adequate  level      of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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90 1 emergency planning that the NRC has reduced.                          And I 2 understand that decision's been made, but I take issue 3 with that and I think it was a foolish decision.
4                  I'd also like to -- to just on record say 5 that      I  think  that      allowing      Entergy      to  use      the 6 decommissioning fund in ways that it has put forth was 7 not also something that the community supported.                          And 8 I took issue with that, the NRC's decision with that 9 as well.
10                  I would like -- I know that you have an 11 environmental impact study that was generically done 12 for this site but --.
13                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Lissa, I don't want to 14 rush you, but I'm going to rush you.
15                  MS. WEINMANN:        Okay.        All right.      Well, 16 two more points.          One is that are any of the other 17 reactor        sites  have    a  school      at    the  front    door?
18 Because I think that the presence of school children 19 who we know children are much more susceptible to 20 radio -- radiation.            I mean, they -- they absorb it 21 much      differently    than    adults        do.      What  are      the 22 measures that are going to be taken for the very 23 unique circumstance that this plant is in, in having 24 a school at its doorstep?                I don't think that's the 25 case with any other plants anywhere.
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91 1                And then finally, I would just say that I 2 am against the rubblization.              It flies in the face of 3 what Entergy had agreed to do.                  And while it may be 4 acceptable for the NRC and Federal standards it's not 5 what Entergy had promised in -- in its agreement with 6 the state.
7                I still have a lot of other things, but 8 I'll put them in my written comments.                  And again, I 9 appreciate your review.
10                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          All right. Thank you.
11                Next up is going to be Bill Sayre and then 12 Dan Jeffries.
13                MR. SAYRE: My name is Bill Sayre. I'm an 14 economist from Bristol.                My family has a lumber 15 manufacture and as such -- is that better -- and as 16 such, I'm also representing Associated Industries of 17 Vermont, which is the trade association for Vermont 18 manufacturers.      I want to thank you for making the 19 trip up to Vermont to hear what we have to say and 20 appreciate the opportunity to speak to you all.
21                I may take a different view.            I will take 22 a different view than some who will speak to you 23 tonight.      I want to start by expressing my -- my 24 association and my company's gratitude to Vermont 25 Yankee and Entergy Corporation for all the years of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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92 1 reliable, affordable, low-carbon energy that they 2 provided      to  the    manufacturers            of  Vermont.          We 3 appreciate it very greatly.
4                  And we now appreciate the agreement that 5 they've reached with NorthStar to transition into a 6 decommissioning process that will be more rapid and 7 just as safe and just as high quality.                      We believe 8 this is good for Windham County and it's good for 9 Vermont.      It secures the important safety and health 10 standards that we all want to see, keeps the economy 11 going, and gets the process completed in a more timely 12 fashion.
13                  Thank you very much.
14                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
15                  After    Dan    Jeffries,          it  will  be      Bob 16 Spencer.
17                  MR. JEFFRIES:          Good evening.        Thank you 18 NRC for making the trip up here.                      We were kind of 19 joking that down in the NRC, somebody must have asked 20 for volunteers to come up to Vermont.                      But it looks 21 like they got some players.                  Appreciate your being 22 here.
23                  I got a question.              This is something I 24 probably knew at one time, but have forgotten, and 25 there's a reason for asking it.                    The question is who NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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93 1 owns these spent fuel, the dry casks, after the 2 decommissioning is complete?                  One of the reasons 3 that's on my mind is it seems to me that it would be 4 appropriate for the Republican Congress to pass a law 5 forcing the ownership of those dry casks onto the 6 Department of Energy.
7                The Federal Government said they would 8 take this spent fuel way back in the '60s when they 9 initially allowed the industry to start building the 10 nuclear power plant.        So I think they should take it 11 by law and not leave that open to argument.
12                Number two question is -- is NorthStar 13 publicly held.      And if so, how's business?              And the 14 reason I ask that question is that I'm an Entergy 15 retiree and when I was looking at my retirement plans, 16 I was looking at how secure is this Entergy retirement 17 check I'm going to be getting.                  Entergy is a large 18 utility, down south.          Regardless of what might have 19 happened with any of their nuclear power plants up 20 here, I always felt that they were a very secure 21 company and that my check was highly reliable.
22                If NorthStar is publicly traded and can 23 comment on their -- you know, how things are going 24 business-wise, I would expect that if they needed to 25 bring more money to the table for the next, you know, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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94 1 five years, past 2026, ten years past, if the cash 2 flow is there, I consider the finances secure.
3                May not do much for the stockholders if, 4 in fact, it's publicly -- publicly held, but if 5 they've got the cash flow, it should come to Vermont 6 Yankee if necessary.
7                And the other thing that's on my mind --
8 by the way, I forgot to comment, I'm a resident of 9 Brattleboro. So one thing I've noticed in all the 10 discussion is -- and I can't quite get a grip on it --
11 is what's so important about this one hundred acres 12 down here in Vernon.        If you take a ride up and down 13 the river, there's a lot of undeveloped land up and 14 down the river.        Why is this one hundred acres so 15 extremely important? It seems like this real estate's 16 value is extremely exaggerated in my mind.                And to 17 that end, I'm comfortable with the four -- four-foot 18 reclamation.      And    I'm    also    comfortable with      the 19 rubblization as proposed.            Thank you.
20                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
21                Again, it's Bob Spencer and then Peggy 22 Farabaugh is next.
23                MR. SPENCER:        Good evening and thank you 24 to the NRC.      Bob Spencer, I'm Chair of the Vernon 25 Planning Economic Development Commission. We've heard NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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95 1 from three of our members already.                  We also have two 2 other members here, Jeff Dunkley and also Martin 3 Langeveld, who is on the Panel.
4                So we are the -- the board that's charged 5 with looking at future use of this site.                        And we 6 recently prepared an op-ed piece that was put into the 7 local papers.        I was just going to hit a couple 8 highlights of that.
9                That basically what we're looking at is a 10 Reenergize Vernon campaign.              We like the idea that 11 some of the other decommissioned sites have hosted 12 other -- energy generating facilities. We are looking 13 at      such  things    as    microgrid          battery  storage, 14 hydroelectric because of the existing TransCanada, now 15 ArcLight facility, possibly solar, and the spinoff 16 businesses such as cloud storage and other high energy 17 intensive using -- uses.
18                We'd also like to point out the over one-19 hundred-year      history      of    Vernon      in    hosting    energy 20 production, starting with the Vernon hydroelectric dam 21 in the early 1900s and then transitioning into the 22 nuclear power plant. So we feel we have a history and 23 a mission, sort of, to keep hosting this sort of 24 technology that benefits, really, three states and 25 hundreds of thousands of people.
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96 1                  The  --    this    next      chapter    that    we're 2 talking about, we're -- we're working through a number 3 of      municipal    planning      projects        with    the  Windham 4 Regional Commission to update our town plan to look at 5 hosting        and    facilitating          development        of      such 6 facilities.        We also are amending our plan to make it 7 --    give    it  something      that    the      state  has  a    new 8 regulation that would give us a substantial deference 9 in supporting or opposing energy facilities.
10                  So we're doing a lot that we feel will 11 help facilitate redevelopment of this site.                        And we 12 really are -- as an intervenor, as Janet said, we'll 13 be      commenting    formally        on    this      process  and      are 14 cautiously optimistic that this deal will happen.
15                  So thank you everyone for your -- your 16 professional review and the due diligence from the 17 private entities, too.
18                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Great.        Thank you.
19                  After    Peggy,      it's      going    to  be    Betsy 20 Williams and then Josh Unruh.
21                  MS. FARABAUGH:        Thank you, Kate and Panel 22 for the opportunity to speak.
23                  My name is Peggy Farabaugh.                  I'm from 24 Vernon.        I have lived there for twenty years.                        My 25 husband was laid off from Entergy, so I'm coming from NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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97 1 a point where a lot of people are -- in Vernon are 2 coming from.        We've suffered a lot from the shutdown 3 of the plant.        But the community has come together in 4 an amazing way to rebirth the town.
5                    And I've heard a lot of opinions tonight 6 about how to do that, but none of them speak to me 7 about the difference between the environmental health 8 and safety of a plant that's six years versus sixty 9 years.        So I'd just encourage you on behalf of the 10 folks who I know in Vernon to make it sooner than 11 later.
12                    And in sixty years, all of us are going to 13 dead.        Right?  And so in six years, this is something 14 that could really help like my children and -- and the 15 children of other people from Vernon who are in this 16 room.          So  if    there      is    no      compelling    safety 17 environment, health, or financial reasons, please help 18 us get this done in six years, instead of sixty.
19 Thank you.
20                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          We have Betsy and then 21 Josh Unruh.
22                    MS. WILLIAMS:        Okay.        My thoughts are a 23 little bit scattered.            I'll try to keep it focused.
24                    We've had a long history of interacting 25 with various representatives from the NRC in the past.
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98 1 And as somebody said earlier, I commend -- I don't 2 know which raffle you won to come up here.                            They 3 haven't always been very pleasant interactions in the 4 past.
5                    I think one thing that's different this 6 time      is  that  in    the    past,    we    were  debating      the 7 continued operation of a plant and now what we're 8 talking about is how do we safely and efficiently and 9 cost effectively decommission it and decontaminate it.
10                    We have a common goal.              I think I've -- I 11 think -- I guess I don't know, but I would assume that 12 pretty much everybody in this room wants the same 13 thing, which is we want that site to be cleaned up and 14 cleaned up to the highest possible level it can, and 15 for that not to become a burden financially on anyone 16 other than the owners of this -- of the plant.
17                    I think what we do debate is how we'll get 18 there and how we'll get there in a way that we all can 19 trust.        Trust is a big issue here.              We have lots and 20 lots of reasons not to trust this company, and lots 21 and lots of reasons not to trust the NRC, quite 22 frankly.
23                    We're talking about the most dangerous 24 substance known to humankind that we are dealing with.
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99 1 sites much larger and more involved than Vermont 2 Yankee.        But most of them were not dealing with the 3 most dangerous substances known to humankind.
4                    We're    talking        about      many  of    those 5 substances leaving a legacy for up to a thousand 6 generations.          A thousand generations.              That's our 7 legacy.        So what we do here in these next few years is 8 really, really, really important and it cannot be 9 taken lightly.
10                    And I have been frustrated by decisions by 11 the NRC in the past.              For example, I do not believe 12 that the Holtec decision, that that was the cask to 13 use on the site, was the best decision.                        I don't 14 believe that the NRC is committed to holding the --
15 whichever company is involved in this process -- to 16 the very highest possible standard known to humankind 17 today.        That's what they should be held to.                Not to 18 what -- the last time I was at the NRC hearing, I was 19 told by an NRC representative that the Holtec casks 20 were adequate.          I'm not looking for adequate.
21                    I don't think the people of Vernon or 22 Brattleboro or anywhere in this Tri-State region are 23 looking for adequate.                  They are looking for the 24 highest possible standard that we know of. And that's 25 what I would like the NRC to be looking for, as well.
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100 1 And I would like to feel assured that that is what the 2 NRC      is  going  to    be    holding        whichever    company 3 accountable to.
4                  It concerns me greatly, as it does many 5 others in this room, that my understanding and I --
6 I'm not completely sure of this, but my understanding 7 is that most, if not all, of the decommissionings that 8 have happened to date have had cost overruns.                      Almost 9 all of them, if not all of them.                      While it would be 10 wonderful if that did not happen here, I think that we 11 clearly have to have an absolutely assured plan of 12 what happens should that happen.
13                  And a company that has gone belly up, 14 whether or not they're the owners, does not give me 15 assurance of then who's going to bear the burden of 16 this very dangerous legacy.
17                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Betsy --.
18                  MS. WILLIAMS:        And I'm about to wind up, 19 Kate.
20                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Okay.
21                  MS. WILLIAMS: So it also concerns me that 22 what we're talking about here are two things that I 23 think are in real competition with each other, which 24 is we're trying to keep things to a certain cost which 25 makes sense, but we're also trying to do it at the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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101 1 most -- the highest possible standard of safety that 2 we know of, which usually also translates to being a 3 more expensive process.
4                The better casks are more expensive.              The 5 process for handling the materials in the most careful 6 way is more expensive.          And those two things are in 7 direct opposition to each other. And that is the very 8 difficult path that we are navigating.              Thank you.
9                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
10                Josh -- is Josh Unruh -- Josh Unruh and 11 then Haley Pero.
12                And I just want to remind people if you 13 could say your name and where you're from and keep 14 your comments to about two minutes, that would be much 15 appreciated.
16                MR. UNRUH:          I can do that.      I'm Josh 17 Unruh, Select Board Chair in Vernon.                I'd like to 18 thank everybody for their time this evening.
19                To reiterate what has been said, there is 20 no one with a stronger stake in the sale in the site's 21 safe decommissioning than the Town of Vernon. I stand 22 in support of the sale of Vermont Yankee to NorthStar.
23 I've had the opportunity to meet with the NorthStar 24 Executives    regarding      their      purchase  and    their 25 potential new partnership with the Town of Vernon.
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102 1                    Through these conversations, my personal 2 questions and concerns have been put to rest.                      Among 3 many -- among many things over the last several months 4 we've heard, and we've also heard it tonight, is 5 concerns about the school across the street from 6 Vermont Yankee. The funny thing is that none of these 7 people have children at Vernon Elementary School.                        I 8 do.      I have three little girls at Vernon Elementary 9 School.
10                    I'm  no    scientist.          I'm no  demolition 11 expert.        So I put my trust in the people that deal in 12 this industry day in and day out that will govern the 13 sale and demolition.              That's the NRC and NorthStar.
14 To get this land back to a usable state safely is 15 paramount for Vernon and Southern Vermont for economic 16 development.          To not allow this sale is further 17 cutting the Town of Vernon and Southern Vermont off at 18 its knees.        Thank you.
19                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:        After Haley, we're going 20 to have Ann Darling and then Leo Schiff.
21                    MS. PERO:      Thank you for the opportunity 22 to say a few words.            My name is Haley Pero and I work 23 in Senator Bernie Sanders' office.                      Tonight, I'm 24 joined by my colleagues, Tom Berry in Senator Leahy's 25 office,        and  George      Twigg    in    Congressman  Welch's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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103 1 office.
2                    On behalf of the delegation, we'd like to 3 thank the NRC for making the trip to Vermont to hear 4 directly        from  Vermonters.          We    think    that's    very 5 important.        And we'd also like to thank the Panel for 6 making this meeting possible and also being a conduit 7 for public information.
8                    The delegation has long believed that 9 public engagement is really critical to this process, 10 so it's terrific to see so many members of the public 11 here tonight.
12                    As  many    of    you    may      know,  Bernie      has 13 introduced legislation a few years ago to make sure 14 that local and state input is a meaningful and formal 15 part of the decommissioning process, particularly on 16 the P.S.D.A.R. Bernie will soon be reintroducing this 17 bill and including an opportunity for the public to 18 give input on license transfers, so then situations 19 like we find ourselves, the public will still have a 20 voice.        Thank you.
21                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you, Haley.            And 22 again, thanks to the Congressional delegation.                          They 23 were very helpful in getting the NRC to come here this 24 evening.
25                    Ann?
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104 1                    MS. DARLING: Hi; I'm Ann Darling. I live 2 in East Hampton, Massachusetts, which is down the 3 river.        And -- but for until a few years ago, I was a 4 thirty-five-year          resident      of    this    area.      And      I 5 consider myself -- this is my home.                      So I guess, you 6 know, we're -- the Vermont Yankee site, it's in the 7 corner          of  Vermont,      but    it's        right    close        to 8 Massachusetts and New Hampshire.
9                    So the State has jurisdiction -- the State 10 of Vermont has jurisdiction over the non-radiological 11 aspects of decommissioning, the residents all over 12 this area of all different states, not just Vermont, 13 will kind of bear the brunt or the -- feel the impact 14 of the operation, the shutdown, the decommissioning, 15 all of that.
16                    So my -- I'm asking the NRC what your 17 commitment is to communicating with all of these 18 parties and coordinating, particularly, with the State 19 of Vermont?          But all of us, as moving forward, it's 20 kind of germane to what you were just saying. We have 21 -- these are our lives.            So we want you to talk to us.
22 I did ask a question.
23                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Yeah.      Would you folks 24 like to respond?
25                    MS. KOCK:          I    keep      forgetting        the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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105 1 microphone.        So sorry.        I'll try and -- and, Kate, 2 I'll try and be brief.
3                  To answer your question about what our 4 commitment is on being transparent and communicating, 5 transparency is another one of the NRC's cornerstones.
6 I don't know how else to say it more clearly.                        I can 7 tell      you  as  a  --    the    Deputy        Director  in      the 8 decommissioning division, it's extremely important to 9 me as well.        It's why we're here.              It's why we have 10 four of us sitting up here today.                  And so you do have 11 our commitment.          It is part of what's -- extremely 12 important        to  us.      Everything          we  do  should        be 13 transparent.
14                  And it is -- I don't know if nice is the 15 right way to put it, but it is nice and striking to me 16 to      sit    here  and    listen      to    concerns,      questions, 17 comments, no matter what side of the issue that you're 18 on, but it's extremely important to me and I'm happy 19 to be here.
20                  MS. DARLING.        Thank you.
21                  I just want to say that, like my friend 22 Betsy, many, many times we've sat with the NRC                            We 23 haven't -- some of us have not felt that -- that we 24 were more important than the industry -- the nuclear 25 industry.        And so I -- you're going to run into that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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106 1 and we don't just want transparency.                    We want you to 2 really        listen      and      take      our    opinions      into 3 consideration.        We want our -- what we say to have an 4 impact. And that means people of Vernon and everybody 5 else that lives here.              We want to -- we want you to 6 listen and do something about what we think.                        Thank 7 you.
8                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you, Ann.
9                    After Leo, it's going to be Guy Page and 10 then Bob Leach.
11                    MR. SCHIFF:          Hi there.      My name's Leo 12 Schiff.          I  live    in  Brattleboro.          And  I    really 13 appreciate the representatives of the NRC coming.                          I 14 understand that this might be your last trip ever to 15 Brattleboro. And because of that, I've got a question 16 for you that is a little bit tangential to the sale of 17 the property.
18                    First, I want to locate myself as firmly 19 against nuclear weapons and nuclear power, and in 20 favor of long-term onsite stewardship of the dry casks 21 in Vernon.        What I'd like to ask you is what makes you 22 so sure that it would be safe to transport the highest 23 level nuclear waste and other medium or low level 24 nuclear waste along our decaying rail lines and with 25 the possible threats of terrorism?
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107 1                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:            Do you have any other 2 questions, Leo?
3                    MR. SCHIFF:          No, but I'd love to get an 4 answer.
5                    CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. Great. Thank you.
6                    MR. WATSON:        Your question is pertaining 7 to the safe transportation of radioactive materials.
8 I can assure you that it's done almost every day in 9 this country, whether it's in the commercial business 10 or      in    the  Defense      Department.            There's    strict 11 requirements on the condition of the rails, the roads, 12 et      cetera,      on  which      those      materials    would        be 13 transported          and    --    and      significant      security 14 requirements, especially for the transportation of 15 spent fuel.
16                    So I can tell you it's done safely and 17 frequently in this country all the time, may not ever 18 -- be every day.            I've personally been involved in a 19 number of them.          And the lengths that are taken for 20 the security in the routing and the safety of the 21 packages and the transportation are extensive.                        Thank 22 you.
23                    MR. PAGE:          Guy Page, Berlin, Vermont, 24 Vermont        Energy  Partnership.            So    welcome  back        to 25 Vermont.        Last time you were here I think the room is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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108 1 about forty-five degrees, if I remember correctly.
2 And just so you know, tonight the last leaves at ten 3 with all the rain.
4                    So anyway, as I think Mr. Twomey pointed 5 out, the decommissioning trust fund is five hundred 6 and      seventy-two      million.          The      expenses  of      the 7 NorthStar plan, as I understand it, about four hundred 8 and ninety-eight million.                So that's about a seventy-9 four-million-dollar surplus.                      That's pretty good.
10 Additional cost overrun, risk mitigation, you've got 11 some guaranteed fixed payments and bonding.                              Team 12 performance bonds, team contractual commitments, and 13 one hundred and twenty-five million dollars support 14 agreement, basically an insurance policy.
15                    And, you know, you guys are going to be 16 doing the deep dive on -- you know, on the -- the 17 ability of the company to -- to -- you know, have the 18 financial wherewithal on the technical skill and all 19 that.          But service, that seems like that's a good 20 prudent plan.
21                    The other thing is, you know, we've really 22 got to look at NorthStar's past and their future.
23 They      --    they've    decommissioned          hundreds    of    power 24 facilities.          You know, we've seen all these.                And as 25 I've been Googling them, I haven't found any accounts NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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109 1 of, you know, oh, boy they really messed up this one.
2 I haven't found any those.                  Okay?      It seems that 3 they've        got  a  pretty        good      record.      Extensive 4 experience in nuclear decommissioning.
5                  And -- and really in terms of failing, the 6 questions were asked were what happens if you find 7 something you didn't think you're going to find, and 8 I thought Mr. State's answer was a good one.                            But 9 really you don't become a world leader by failing to 10 see and deal with the unforeseen.                      That's just a 11 characteristic of -- of a business successes.                          You 12 know how to deal with these things.                  So I -- my sense 13 is that that they do.
14                  And -- and a big question I think you 15 really need to ask is, okay, what's the alternative.
16 The alternative is sixty years SAFSTOR.                      As Peggy 17 said, you know, we're all dead by the time this thing 18 is done.
19                  So I -- I know you're going to do due 20 diligence on this. And I know the public service work 21 is going to do due diligence.                    And that's all very 22 good.        That's all very necessary but I just hope the 23 take on this is we want to get to yes.                  Okay?  Because 24 it's good for the community.                It's even good for the 25 environment.        And I just hope it gets done.                  Thank NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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110 1 you.
2                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you, Guy.
3                I just want to assure everybody if you 4 signed up to speak, you will get to speak.                  So don't 5 -- don't worry about that.
6                After Bob Leach, we're going to have Paul 7 Blanch.
8                MR. LEACH:      Good evening -- evening.                My 9 name is Bob Leach.        I'm a Brattleboro resident and I 10 strongly support the transfer of the license and the 11 sale of Vermont Yankee to NorthStar.
12                I'm a Vermont Yankee retiree.                For many 13 years, I was the R.P.M., Radiation Protection Manager.
14 I was also certified a reactor operator, a senior 15 reactor operator.        I'm a plank owner.            For those who 16 don't know the Navy terminology, it's anybody that was 17 there when they commissioned it.                I was there when it 18 was still a hole in the ground.
19                I  looked      into    NorthStar      and  the      team 20 that's working on this project with NorthStar, W.S.C.
21 and      Areva. Areva    is    an  international      company.
22 They've been building power plants -- nuclear power 23 plants around the world for as long as I can remember.
24 They're a very respectable company.                    They have an 25 outstanding      reputation        in    the      nuclear  industry.
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111 1 Excuse me.
2                  W.S.C. is an operator of the radioactive 3 waste disposal site down in Texas.                    Vermont Yankee --
4 or Vermont and Texas are the compact folks that 5 established that particular site.                    W.S.C.S. operates 6 that        facility  and    they      do    it      in  a  safe      and 7 professional manner. It will be an extremely valuable 8 asset in the process of preparing, scheduling, and 9 shipping the huge amount of radioactive waste which is 10 going to be leaving Vermont Yankee.
11                  NorthStar            has          reputation          for 12 decommissioning non-nuclear power plants for years.
13 They were used as a major subcontractor in one of the 14 Midwest power plants.              And everything I heard from 15 that, they've been doing an outstanding job.
16                  They    did      operate        and    successfully 17 decontaminate a nuclear facility that was not a power 18 plant.          They  did    some    work      of    Vermont  Yankee, 19 recently. It was potentially the removal of the north 20 warehouse.        Some of you are aware of that building.
21 That was the first building at Vermont Yankee that 22 received any radioactive waste, radioactive material, 23 and it was used to store radioactive material right up 24 until it was -- was decommissioned.
25                  They  brought        in  a    professional      crew, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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112 1 relatively small crew.                They brought in the right 2 equipment and they completed the job on schedule and 3 on budget.          NorthStar and their partners are very 4 capable, knowledgeable, and they've got extensive 5 experience in this kind of job.
6                    CHAIR O'CONNOR: Bob, I'm going to have to 7 move you along.
8                    MR. LEACH:      Okay.
9                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:            I won't gong you or 10 anything like that but.
11                    MR. LEACH:      Okay.      Sorry.
12                    Listen, we're just saying they've got the 13 expertise and the ability and I strongly support 14 giving them the chance to do it.
15                    I would like to ask one question to the 16 NRC.        I understand the State of Vermont is trying to 17 become or looking into becoming an agreement state.
18 I think I know the answer, but if they do become an 19 agreement state, would they -- I know that the NRC 20 regulates        power    plants,        but      decommissioning        is 21 slightly different. And would Vermont be obligated in 22 any way if they become an agreement state?                    That's a 23 yes or no question.
24                    MR. WATSON:        The answer is no.
25                    MR. LEACH:      Thank you.
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113 1                    MR. WATSON:          Part 50 licenses are the 2 responsibility of the NRC to regulate.
3                    CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. After Paul Blanch, 4 we're going to have Kyle Landis-Marinello and then 5 Clay Turnbull.
6                    MR. BLANCH:        Good evening.          Thank you, 7 Members of the Panel and Madam Chairman.
8                    My name is Paul Blanch.              I reside in West 9 Hartford, Connecticut, about seventy miles south of 10 the plant.        I'm a -- I'm going to cut my speech, in 11 the interest of time, a little bit short.                      But I have 12 passed out copies to members of the Panel and also to 13 Andrea of the NRC.          So I'm going to cut out the major 14 part of it, as Mark MacDonald so eloquently described 15 my concerns.
16                    I'm a professional engineer with more than 17 fifty        years  of    nuclear        safety        experience        and 18 regulatory experience.              I've worked at Maine Yankee 19 during the decommissioning, at Connecticut Yankee 20 during the decommissioning, and I sat on a similar 21 panel overseeing the decommissioning of Millstone Unit 22 One.          So I  have    quite      a  bit      of  experience        in 23 regulatory issues and a limited amount of experience 24 in decommissioning.
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114 1 and it was just briefly mentioned in one of the NRC 2 slides, but no one seems to have amplified on it --
3 and I have a couple extra copies.                      And that's 10 4 C.F.R. 50.75.        So I would like the Panel to review 5 that.        It has to do with financial stability of the 6 licensee and guarantee of -- decommissioning funds.
7                  So following up from Mark's dialogue, I'd 8 like to make some recommendations to the Panel that 9 Vermont must consider the requirements of some type 10 of, quote, surety method insurance or other guaranteed 11 method, close quote, as required by 10 C.F.R. 50.75 as 12 a    condition    for    transfer      of    the  Vermont    Yankee 13 license.
14                  Vermont's attorneys and the Panel must 15 determine the amount of the surety bond required to 16 assure Vermont is financially protected.                      Typical 17 amounts for performance-type bonds are equal to the 18 fix contract amount.            However, this particular job is 19 not a typical contract.                Vermont's attorneys must 20 review the license transfer and regulations of 50.75 21 to assure the financial protection should NorthStar 22 fail to perform.
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115 1 50.75.
2                A couple of statements were made by Scott 3 about indemnification. If there is indemnification or 4 bonding, certainly that kind of statement needs to be 5 in writing and checked out.
6                And the other thing that somewhat bothered 7 me by some of NorthStar's statements were the amount 8 of contamination they have removed from various sites.
9 And I don't disagree they have removed contamination, 10 but nuclear contamination is not the same as lead, 11 asbestos, P.C.B.s.        It has its own characteristics.
12 And they need to have that expertise, that power plant 13 expertise on board to assure a safe decommissioning.
14                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you, Paul.
15                MR. BLANCH:        Thank you very much.
16                CHAIR O'CONNOR: Kyle Landis-Marinello and 17 then Clay Turnbull.
18                MR. LANDIS-MARINELLO:              I'm Kyle Landis-19 Marinello. I'm an Assistant Attorney General for the 20 State of Vermont.          Our office is looking at this 21 transaction, closely.            This is a matter that the 22 Attorney General was briefed on, on day one when he --
23 when he took office.
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116 1 Board, along with the Agency of Natural Resources and 2 the      Public    Service      Department,          and  with      some 3 consultation with the Department of Health, as well.
4 We plan to participate in the proceeding at the NRC, 5 along with all of those agencies.
6                  Generally, we want this site cleaned up 7 quickly, and the transaction looks good for that 8 reason.        But this transaction needs to be fully 9 vetted.        We need to ensure, one, the site is going to 10 be fully cleaned up, and two, that the cost of that 11 cleanup do not fall on Vermonters.
12                  A full vetting requires more information.
13 For      instance,    there's      a  line      item  in  the      new 14 decommissioning        plan    of    two    hundred      twenty-three 15 million dollars for decontamination and dismantlement.
16 That's very different from the line-by-line breakdown 17 that was provided in the original decommissioning cost 18 estimate.
19                  A second example, the spent fuel costs for 20 this transfer assume that the Department of Energy 21 will pick up all of the fuel by 2052.                        There's no 22 guarantee that will happen.                  If it doesn't happen, 23 there could be massive costs, particularly if we reach 24 the      one-hundred-year        mark    where      dry  casks    would 25 possibly need to be repackaged. And even if the pick-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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117 1 up      occurs  by  2052,    there's        a    chance that      the 2 Department of Energy is going to require different 3 casks for transportation.
4                  These type of costs need to be looked at 5 and there needs to be an answer of where those costs 6 would come from.        So there is more information needed 7 to fully vet this transaction.
8                  It was encouraging to hear that the NRC 9 still has the availability of request for additional 10 information and we would support the NRC availing 11 itself of that to provide more information to itself 12 and to the public about how this transaction will do 13 what everyone wants it to do and get the site cleaned 14 up quickly.
15                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you, Kyle.
16                  We're going to have Clay Turnbull.                  And 17 then after Clay, we're going to have Gary Sachs.
18                  MR. TURNBULL:        Hi. Good evening. Thanks 19 for coming up to Vermont.              So it's -- this is a warm 20 welcome.      Yeah.
21                  I hope, in -- in not too many years, you 22 folks at NRC are going to be able to, if -- almost 23 brag that you were up at this meeting in Vermont 24 because the decommissioning turned out so successful 25 in Vermont that it's -- it's like -- it's what people NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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118 1 talk about and you'll be able to say yeah, we were 2 there early in that process.
3                    In a -- in a complex project like this, to 4 be successful, it is essential to know what the goal 5 is.      And in this case, that -- that is like what will 6 the site look like post-decommissioning. And I -- oh, 7 I'm sorry.          Clay Turnbull.        I live in Townshend and 8 it's been a long time since I said and I proudly live 9 in a solar powered home for twenty-five years, off 10 grid.
11                    And why not see if we can do the job here 12 of decommissioning?            Can it be done?          Can it be done 13 while        honoring  the      commitments          that  Entergy      has 14 already made to the State of Vermont?
15                    We're presented with one option is let it 16 rust.          The other option is to wait sixty years.
17 Another option is let's rush into this and get it --
18 let's -- we need to do this now.                    It's got to be done 19 by the end of the month, you know, make your decisions 20 right away, the rush or rust option.                          Or another 21 option is you can have a greenfield. Sixty years from 22 now, Entergy is going to honor their commitments.
23 They're not going to rubblize.                    You're going to have 24 a    really      beautiful      site    in    sixty    years    or    so; 25 decommissioning will be done.                        Or you can get a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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119 1 brownfield and we'll do it now.
2                    And it's -- and it's -- we're given these 3 -- these greenfield or brownfield or rush-or-rust 4 options.        What if we all have the goal of making that 5 site just as clean as possible, at least as clean as 6 Maine Yankee, so that we can all look back and not too 7 far down the road it would be -- really wonderful to 8 have that site decommissioned and ten years from now 9 be saying what a great job we did.                    So I say how about 10 we start with -- with that as a goal in mind.
11                    Thank you.
12                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thanks, Clay.
13                    After Gary, we're going to have R.T. Brown 14 and then Lorie Cartwright.
15                    MR. SACH:      Thanks for coming up, NRC.
16                    Mr. State, I'm a little bit -- I haven't 17 been to these meetings, many of them, because I was 18 undergoing chemotherapy.              And I would -- I remembered 19 Chairman Yeskel of the NRC came and met with the 20 activists a few years ago.                I sure would like to meet 21 Mr. State to get some answers questioned because it 22 seems        like  this    whole      thing        that's  based        on 23 proprietary data.
24                    You know, if Entergy -- I mean, I'm sorry, 25 NorthStar, Entergy, they're so close to each other.
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120 1                    If NorthStar disappears 2028, let's say, 2 what do we do?          Go back to proprietary information?
3 I don't see how that works.                  I'd like to understand 4 more.        Mr. Marinello -- Kyle Landis-Marinello spoke 5 about that line item piece in the original.                          And I 6 didn't see that in the current P.S.D.A.R..                                But 7 needless to say, I haven't started.
8                    2007, the World Business Academy wrote if 9 private investors won't buy into nuclear, why should 10 the public?          In 2007, Entergy tried to spin off its 11 reactors into a company called SpinCo.                          In 2009, 12 Entergy        officials    were    found      to    have  misspoken.
13 Punishment was minimal, financial or not at all. What 14 happened is that Entergy, after the misspeaking of 15 2009, promised to be honest and forthcoming.                      Then it 16 shut down.
17                    How sad that we, here in Vermont, never 18 got the chance to believe or experience Entergy making 19 good on their promises to be honest and forthright 20 with us.        However, they have come up at Election Day, 21 this past year, hey, we found somebody to buy our 22 reactor.        Where the heck with NorthStar when Entergy 23 was trying to sell the reactor for all those years?
24 How come you didn't buy in then?                      What is this crap 25 now?
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121 1                I mean, so in Election Day 2016, Entergy 2 made -- I mean, found a buyer.                Here's NorthStar.          Is 3 Entergy hiding responsibility for its poor purchase 4 decisions?      Where was NorthStar when Entergy had the 5 reactor on sale?          What insurance does the NRC have 6 that Mr. State can provide that there are no potential 7 liens into him for perhaps millions of dollars from 8 previous court cases or endeavors?                  I'd like to know 9 that before this happens.
10                Areva is being bailed out by the French 11 government.      W.C.S. is already involved here, per the 12 compact.      So to have them as part as -- of this 13 NorthStar      is  kind    of  redundant.          But  Burns      and 14 McDonnell's always good to get a discount.
15                Okay. I perceived the D.U.I. settlement 16 agreement as an ultimatum.                If it wasn't accepted 17 verbatim, it would not have been approved.                    It would 18 not      have  been  passed      into    law.        That's    not      a 19 negotiation.      That's an ultimatum.
20                The -- this P.S.D.A.R. means very little 21 in a sense because the NRC doesn't approve it.                        It's 22 simply that NorthStar has to do it. It's like there's 23 a box they have to check off between here and the 24 decision.
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122 1 now?      It started in April as per the --
2                  UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:              (Off mic) 3                  MR. SACH:      Great.      Good.
4                  I believe this NorthStar deal is to --
5 well, I'll leave that for the last.
6                  Okay. Vernon has been pro-V.Y. for forty-7 two years.        Can we let them have the waste?                I mean, 8 many of the Vernon residents, I mean, no disrespect, 9 had said we'll take the dry casks.                      Let's let them 10 have some, not have to put it all on the concrete, 11 give it all to -- make you guys responsible.
12                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Gary, I'm going to ask 13 you --
14                  MR. SACH:      Wait, very quickly.
15                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Okay.
16                  MR. SACH:      I've got two things.
17                  I need a picture from you guys, either 18 Entergy or NorthStar, how much of that site is going 19 to be visible or going to be usable for people?                        One-20 hundred-twenty-five-acre site. Maine Yankee has a lot 21 of site that's not accessible because of the ISFSI.
22 Can we get a picture?
23                  Would you guys like to see a picture to 24 see if there's actually going to be a recreational 25 area?        Have you seen it?
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123 1                    A project -- a projected picture of what 2 it would look like, have you seen it, Panel?                              No.
3 Thank you.          I'd like to see that prior to whatever 4 transfer occurs.                I'd like Mr. State to be more 5 forthcoming.          I know, I'm sorry, I was going through 6 cancer, but I give you guys responsibility.                      I think 7 this entire deal is to line Mr. State's pocket.
8                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
9                    R.T. Brown and then Lorie Cartwright. And 10 then we're going to have Rich Holschuh next, after 11 them.
12                    MR. BROWN:      Hi. Good evening.      Thank you 13 to the Panel, the NRC, and to NorthStar for being here 14 tonight.          I've timed myself to a minute and a half.
15 Let's see if I can achieve this.
16                    Closer.      Good evening.          My name is R.T.
17 Brown.        I work for the Brattleboro Development Credit 18 Corporation          and    I'm    the    Windham      County  Economic 19 Development          Programs      Project        Manager. I    also 20 administer some programs related to entrepreneurship 21 and innovation in the region.
22                    The B.D.C.C. is one of twelve regional 23 development corporations throughout the state and we 24 serve the Windham region.                    Our sister entity, the 25 Southeastern Vermont Economic Development Strategies, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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124 1 developed the region's CEDS, or Comprehensive Economic 2 Development Strategy. It's essentially a road map for 3 the region -- or economic development road map.
4                  My academic and professional background is 5 in applied economics as it relates to local and 6 regional development.
7                  We entirely support the expedited process 8 as proposed by NorthStar as an accelerated timeline by 9 decades poses many opportunities for the community in 10 the region.          Due to the accelerated timeline and 11 speaking from their perspective of regional economic 12 development entity, it should be noted that this --
13 this place has a greater pressure on the Town of 14 Vernon,        which  has      very      limited      resources,        to 15 sufficiently and clearly plan and develop the best 16 possible long-term reuse of the site.
17                  There is an opportunity here to think 18 about Vernon's infrastructure and what -- what can be 19 done      to  provide    the    greatest        possible  long-term 20 economic impact for what has been a very supportive 21 rural host community.            I think it was said very well 22 in the last P.S.B. meeting by someone -- and my 23 apologies, I don't -- I don't know their name.
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125 1 in    this    field  that    is    only    going      to  grow.        We 2 encourage the parties here to put the community first 3 and      do  everything      possible      to      not  simply      meet 4 expectations, but exceed them in ways that exhibit 5 innovation, thoughtfulness, and leadership as the next 6 chapter of nuclear power generationers is written 7 starting in Vernon, Vermont.                Thank you.
8                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you, R.T.
9                  Lorie Cartwright and then after Rich, it's 10 going to be Peter Vanderdoes.
11                  MS. CARTWRIGHT:          I apologize, I wasn't 12 closer.        It happened faster than I expected.
13                  I  am    Lorie    Cartwright        and  I  am    from 14 Brattleboro, Vermont.            I would also like to take this 15 chance to thank the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for 16 coming to Brattleboro to speak to us and to hear us.
17                  As a taxpayer, a citizen of this great 18 state and nation, a mother, and a fierce proponent of 19 truly renewable energy, solar, wind, and hydro, I 20 would like nothing more than to see this site be 21 cleaned up as expeditiously and safely as possible, 22 especially if it paves the way for the site to be made 23 available for the production of such truly renewable 24 forms of energy.            It would be a boon to the local 25 economy.
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126 1                  It seems that what divides some of the 2 people that we've heard from tonight from Vernon, from 3 some of the other people we've heard from tonight, is 4 this notion of having the site be released on an 5 unrestricted basis. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission 6 representatives          outlined          what      some    of        the 7 decommissioned sites look like.                  But I wish that when 8 I'm done with my comment, they would just go over that 9 point again because I was always under the conception 10 that there aren't any former commercial reactor sites 11 that have been unrestricted.                And that would include 12 the entire site of the former commercial reactor.
13                  So if -- if somebody from the NRC could 14 articulate that for us again at the end of my comment 15 period, I would -- I would really appreciate it.
16                  I do, again, think that that is the deep 17 divide.        And for something this important, I think 18 that, frankly, I don't see there being anything more 19 important      facing    this    world      right    now  than      the 20 cleaning up of nuclear power plant sites and the 21 storage of the high level, medium level, low level, 22 any level radiated waste.                  It's the most critical 23 issue for all of us.
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127 1 up and redeveloped in our lifetimes, I think that that 2 would be really helpful for everyone here to get 3 closer to what it is that they want at the end of 4 this.
5                I do have concerns about some of the ways 6 that the proposed purchaser is going to want to go 7 about cleaning up the site, and I won't spend a lot of 8 time talking about it.        I apologize.          I'm just -- I'm 9 really emotional about this because, like I said, I 10 can't consider anything more important to us than 11 this.
12                But rubblization is a concern; that is 13 diluting the pollution.
14                CHAIR O'CONNOR:        Lorie, I'm going to have 15 to ask you to wrap it up.
16                MS. CARTWRIGHT:        Okay.      Okay. And then I 17 just -- I do want to say that it was great concern to 18 me that one of the representatives from NorthStar 19 suggested that they saw this sort of a clean-up the 20 same as any other site, that the fact that it was a 21 radioactive site really didn't make that much of a 22 difference to them.        I think that that makes all of 23 the difference in the world.
24                Thank you.
25                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you, Lorie.
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128 1                    There was a question, I think, to the NRC.
2                    MR. WATSON:          Yes, let me go ahead and 3 follow        up  on  that.        The    sites      that  had      been 4 decommissioned, all ten of them have been released for 5 unrestricted use, meaning the owner can do what they 6 want to on them.          A few of them that which the fuel 7 was removed completely before by the -- the fuel was 8 removed by the Department of Energy are fully open to 9 any redevelopment that they want to.                        That would 10 include Shoreham, Pathfinder, Saxton.
11                    About one-third have become parks or some 12 other use, like Maine Yankee.                    I mentioned that one 13 before.        There are a number of plants where they had 14 built additional fossil units.                    At Rancho Seco, they 15 have two combined fossil units, combined cycle, they 16 use gas or whatever fuel they want to use.                                At 17 Humboldt Bay, they have ten combustion units which 18 they      use    for  stabilizing        the      grid  in  Northern 19 California.
20                    And at La Crosse -- both Humboldt Bay and 21 La Crosse right now are undergoing decommissioning, 22 but La Cross has a large coal powered plant right next 23 to the nuclear plant.            So the sites can be reused for 24 a variety of purposes.              It's really up to the owner.
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129 1 clarification, sir, thank you.                  The sites where the 2 fuel        has  not  been      removed,          are  those    fully 3 unrestricted sites.
4                  MR. WATSON:          Yes, except for the fuel 5 facility -- the storage facility.
6                  MS. CARTWRIGHT:          Okay.      Thank you.
7                  MR. WATSON:        Uh-huh.
8                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          It's your turn, Rich.
9                  MR. HOLSCHUH:        (Foreign language spoken) 10 My name is Rich and I'm from this place, namely 11 Brattleboro.        I serve on the Vermont Commission for 12 Native American Affairs. I work with the contemporary 13 Native community in the State of Vermont. I'm here as 14 spokesperson for the Elnu Abenaki Tribe, with the 15 backing of the Nulhegan and the Koasek.
16                  Thank you for traveling here to the Land 17 of the People Separated, the southwestern most part of 18 Ndakinna, the Abenaki homeland.
19                  As indigenous people, our concern is both 20 for the land and the people for they are the same.                        I 21 would like to open with a short perspective of how we 22 see this situation.            You may not have heard this 23 before.        I don't know.        But I'd like to make three 24 brief comments, not questions just comments.
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130 1 latest step in a story that has been unfolding for 2 less than fifty years, blink of an eye. The spiritual 3 beliefs of the indigenous people tell us that time is 4 a whole, not a linear progression. We are all part of 5 the same.          There is no separation from anyone or 6 anything else, no matter the time or the shape, only 7 a relationship in a different way of being in the 8 world.
9                    Energy and matter are conserved, basic 10 physics. Everything matters. The past is always with 11 us      and    the  future      is    now.        We  have  a    great 12 responsibility as Native people and hopefully as human 13 beings        to  honor    these      relationships      and  conduct 14 ourselves in a matter befitting our role in creation.
15                    But now we have some new strange things, 16 things that have never been here before.                    Things that 17 we can't see, but they're still real.                    Radionuclides, 18 they're not a part of natural law.                      They have never 19 been      here    before    in    these      quantities.        They're 20 antithetical to life itself. They don't fit. They're 21 not part of the story, a story that's been going on 22 for millennia.
23                    But yet, here they are.              Somebody made a 24 decision to step outside of relationship and now we 25 have to live with it.                    The deliberations of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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131 1 moment, today, the next few weeks, years, will be with 2 us for hundreds and thousands of years.                      Seems like a 3 long time and it is.
4                    I ask you to remember that the Abenaki and 5 their ancestors have been in this land, the land where 6 Vermont        Yankee  sits,      for    twelve      thousand    years.
7 That's        a  long    time.          They've        been  flourishing 8 sustainably          within      the    relationship.          And    with 9 thankfulness, we are still here. (language other than 10 English) as we say in our language.                        And we want to 11 honor this place, our homeland.                      We want the future 12 generations to be able to give thanks in the same 13 manner and enjoy these gifts, as well.
14                    We  ask    that    you  make      these  decisions 15 regarding the disposition of this great incongruity 16 carefully.          It affects everyone and everything.                      So 17 I'd like to make three short comments.
18                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Rich, they do have to be 19 short.
20                    MR. HOLSCHUH:            Okay.        These are with 21 respect to the P.S.D.A.R.                Vermont Yankee sits on an 22 ancient        gathering    place,      a  place      for  settlement, 23 gathering,        fishing,      working      the      land,  performing 24 ceremony, and a final resting place when it came time 25 to walk on. The cultural significance of the site has NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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132 1 never been fully acknowledged.
2                  I don't know if everybody knows this, but 3 that's the case.          NorthStar should know this.                The 4 original 1972 Atomic Energy Commission license for the 5 plant makes it very clear, stating, quote, no formal 6 archaeological survey was conducted at Vermont Yankee 7 Nuclear Power Station prior to initial construction.
8 And yet, for one example, historic newspaper accounts 9 record the unearthing of multiple indigenous burials 10 in the immediate area for the two hundred years 11 immediately preceding the facility.
12                  I'll leave it at that.              This needs to be 13 on the record.
14                  The P.S.D.A.R. and the revised P.S.D.A.R.
15 merely quote the license that came before, and it's 16 all made up.      It's a myth.
17                  Second      point.          Environmental      review 18 procedures that have been put in place at Vermont 19 Yankee Nuclear Power Station regarding undertakings 20 that      involve  land    disturbing        activities,  this      is 21 beyond decommissioning, undisturbed areas, require a 22 notification procedure involving the State Historic 23 Preservation      Officer      to    establish      the --  actions 24 necessary to protect known or undiscovered cultural 25 resources.
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133 1                  This is going to carry through in site 2 restoration, as well.            There is going to be a lot of 3 staging areas, a lot of storage areas beyond the 4 plant, itself.        We request the tribes be included in 5 these procedures, going forward, and the protocols 6 that will accompany them.
7                  And the last point, environmental justice, 8 Executive      Order    12898      from    1994      directs  Federal 9 executive agencies to consider environmental justice 10 under the National Environmental Policy Act.                        It is 11 designed      to  ensure      low    income        and  --  minority 12 populations do not experience a disproportionately 13 high      and  adverse      human      health        or  environmental 14 effects.
15                  Now we all know where the nuclear waste 16 sites are.      They are settled -- they are set in areas 17 with marginalized, usually indigenous people.                      While 18 you're considering how this is going to take place and 19 where these things are going to go, we want you to 20 know that we stand with these people, we ask that you 21 consider      their  lives      equally      and    fairly as    your 22 responsibility.
23                  Thank you.
24                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you.
25                  Peter Vanderdoes, and then Nancy Braus.
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134 1                    MR. VANDERDOES:          I think Nancy Braus has 2 left us.
3                    Peter Vanderdoes from Brattleboro. First, 4 I'd like to thank Ms. O'Connor for her very concise 5 and intelligent question.                Who will be left holding 6 the bag?          And Senator MacDonald's point that the 7 people holding the bag will have empty pockets.
8                    Mr. Leach, who was here earlier and spoke 9 so eloquently of Areva, I would like to point out some 10 of their shortcomings in cost and time overrides. The 11 Flamanville        Nuclear    plant    in    France,    which    began 12 construction in 2007, was supposed to be finished in 13 2012, is still under construction today.
14                  Initially, it was estimated at three point 15 five billion euros, but the cost has ballooned to ten 16 point five billion euros.
17                  Another point is the Olkiluoto Nuclear 18 Power Plant in Finland, which Areva was working on, 19 was due to be finished in 2009.                        It is also still 20 under construction.            And the initial cost has gone up 21 from three point five billion euros to eight billion 22 euros.        The Finnish Electrical Utility, T.V.O., is 23 taking Areva to court.
24                  I    had    a    whole      bunch    of  financial 25 information, which I was going to go through, but it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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135 1 was very lengthy.          So I decided just to point out to 2 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 10 C.F.R. 50.38, the 3 ineligibility of certain applicants.                    Any person who 4 is a citizen, national, or agent of a foreign country 5 or      any    corporation      or    other      entity  which      the 6 Commission knows to be owned, controlled, or dominated 7 by an alien foreign corporation or foreign government, 8 shall be ineligible to apply for or obtain a license.
9                  So I know that that's sort of pushed under 10 the rug because Areva has done a lot of work in the 11 United States.          But I'm wondering why shouldn't an 12 American Corporation be doing that work?                    We need the 13 jobs.
14                  Thanks very much.
15                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you, Peter.
16                  Nancy    Braus      appears      to  have  left      the 17 building.
18                  Is there anyone else who hasn't signed up 19 or I've missed you that would like to make a comment?
20                  Yes, please come to the microphone.
21                  MS. BURNETT:        My name is Audrey Burnett.
22 I'm a member of the Vermont Yankee Decommissioning 23 Alliance.        I understand that NorthStar is partnering 24 with the Texas-based W.C.S., to send our high-level 25 nuclear waste to a community in Andrews County, Texas.
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136 1 Our group, along with other citizen-based groups, 2 recently sponsored residents from Andrews County who 3 are very opposed to receiving our high-level nuclear 4 waste.
5                  They are concerned that although they are 6 told this is interim storage, there is presently no 7 safe long-term plans for high-level nuclear waste 8 storage.        They're      concerned        about environmental 9 impacts or potential terrorist attacks on this waste.
10 I mean, this is where they live and where they're 11 raising their children.              They say that they had no 12 nuclear power plants and yet they're hosting our 13 waste.
14                  I'd like everyone to consider what's being 15 proposed and the people that will be affected by our 16 poisonous waste for possibly generations to come.
17 Thank you.
18                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you very much.
19                  Is there anyone else who hasn't made a 20 comment, but would like to?              Yes, please come to the 21 microphone.
22                  MR. ZALUZNY: Hi. Steve Zaluzny, resident 23 of Vernon, Vermont.            Just quick, a little bit of 24 history.      My father was a selectperson for years in 25 Vernon. He was there when they built the plant, along NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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137 1 with other select people, obviously.                      Spent a lot of 2 time and had a lot of late night meetings, one or two 3 o'clock in the morning, to deal with the nuclear power 4 plant coming to town.
5                    So I don't want to bore you with too much 6 of that.          But one of the promises that was made, 7 obviously and I don't know all the background or the 8 paperwork or the legal documents, but the people of 9 Vernon were promised that the nuclear waste would be 10 removed        once  the  plant      was    shut    down. So    that 11 obviously has become an issue.
12                    The -- the A.G. mentioned that, you know, 13 what -- what will happen after a certain year, fifty-14 two, or whatever as far as cost.                      And I guess before 15 I    get      done  maybe    that's      the      question  I'd    like 16 answered, you know, and who pays that cost of material 17 on-site as it goes beyond a certain point?
18                    And then I want to speak a little bit 19 about        just    the  idea      of,    you      know,  I'm  a    small 20 contractor, obviously, but certain things are also 21 relevant,        small    or    big,    as    far    as  construction 22 contracts.          One of the things, you know, if you're 23 doing a bonded job, obviously a bond sounds like a 24 good      thing    and  it    can    be.        But  if  there's      any 25 disputes, a bond could be contested and then you're in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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138 1 a legal situation trying to deal with it.
2                I  guess,      my    comments      in regard    to    a 3 contract are obviously up front you need to know what 4 the costs are.      Okay?      That's critical especially in 5 this case. So whoever we're going to trust, Public 6 Service or the NRC or whoever it is, we need to know 7 what the costs are accurately before the contract is 8 signed and the work is done.
9                Once that is established, a schedule of 10 values has to be set. That is basically what the cost 11 of each segment of the job will be.
12                Once the work proceeds, it is critical 13 that the contractor is paid accordingly to what work 14 is done as far as its value.          If a contractor would be 15 overpaid, that's not a good situation. So that is why 16 whoever will oversee this is able to measure the work 17 that's done and that it's done properly. That way, if 18 a contractor defaults, there's still enough money left 19 to finish the work.        So that is also critical.
20                So I think that's really important to any 21 contract. Obviously, this has nuclear waste involved, 22 but these requirements are -- are still relevant for 23 any contract.        And I think that's what I, as a 24 resident of Vernon, want my government to do in this 25 situation, that they scrutinize and make sure that the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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139 1 contract is followed. And that's really going to make 2 this work.      Whether it's done over six years or sixty 3 years that still has to happen to this -- for this to 4 work.
5                  So now again to my question on storage, 6 whoever should try to answer that as far as cost and 7 who pays the cost of storage if it were -- if we don't 8 have a place to put nuclear waste, you know, in -- you 9 know, in the time span we're hoping that will happen.
10                  MR. DUSANIWSKYJ: I recognize your concern 11 about spent fuel.          And I want to remind everyone in 12 this room that we do not make policy as to what is 13 going to be the disposition of spent fuel.                            The 14 Nuclear Regulatory Commission only maintains that they 15 be held safely, securely, and all the other issues.
16                  I can tell you that there's going to be 17 some point where if there is no resolution found for 18 spent fuel, there will be additional costs. But a lot 19 of things will have to transpire between now and then.
20 This        is not  something        that's        going to    happen 21 overnight.
22                  There is sufficient funding right now, 23 under the guidance given by the Department of Energy 24 -- and I grant you that the Department of Energy has 25 not had a very good track record as to what their NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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140 1 promises are or not.          That's a fact.          But there will 2 become a point, and I'm not going to deny it, that 3 sometime -- sometime, additional funding will have to 4 be found.
5                  The problem that we're going to be having 6 is that they're not going to be necessarily popular 7 answers. The licensee would still be held responsible 8 for all costs because the license for the ISFSI or the 9 dry cask storage is not terminated until such time 10 that the fuel is removed.
11                  So I cannot sit here and tell you what the 12 costs are to an infinite time.                  There's very little 13 way that I could do that for you.                    All I can say is 14 that if it's going to happen, the licensee will be 15 responsible for the cost.
16                  Now, an added point to this, many of the 17 licensees have been suing the Department of Energy to 18 reclaim some of these costs, and they have been 19 winning in court.        There's also been, unfortunately, 20 not      necessarily    a    very      good      payment  on    these 21 judgments.
22                  I don't have answers to what's going on 23 with the Department of Energy.                All I can tell you is 24 that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission does not make 25 that policy.      So one way or the other, as we've been NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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141 1 talking about throughout the evening, the licensee is 2 responsible        for  the    costs      until    the  license        is 3 terminated completely.
4                    MR. ZALUZNY:        Okay.      Thank you very much.
5 I appreciate your answer.
6                    CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. I think there 7 was one more person who wanted to comment?                      Yes?
8                    MS. OLSON:        I was reluctant to come up 9 because I --.
10                    CHAIR O'CONNOR:            You have to introduce 11 yourself.
12                    MS. OLSON:          Oh, I'm sorry.          I'm Tina 13 Olson.        And I live in Brattleboro.              I came here from 14 New York City.        I've been here three years.            I grew up 15 in Massachusetts.            But I belong here.            This is --
16 these are my people.              This is my land.          I love the 17 Connecticut River.            And I'm a music therapist and so 18 of all the details that is involved here I don't know 19 much.
20                    But what I hear is that we share a future.
21 And I think, probably deep down, all of us love the 22 land.        So it seems to me, after listening, this comes 23 down to a commitment to do the absolute best to save 24 the land and ourselves and the future.
25                    And I also understand that there really NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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142 1 isn't a satisfactory way to store this terrible --
2 curse in a way.        So -- and I felt like I do need to 3 say something in honor of our democracy.                          And I 4 appreciate all of us here together, which I think deep 5 down we share the same desire and that we can come 6 together and hear each other so.
7                  I don't normally do this, but I felt that 8 I need to speak.        And I think all I can say is let us 9 do the best we can in a way, even if it is the most 10 expensive, and even if it takes a long time because we 11 do love the land and our people.                  Thank you.
12                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you very much.
13                  Is there anyone else in the public that 14 wants to make a comment or has a question? All right.
15 Thank you so much.
16                  I want to thank -- we're not done the 17 meeting.      But I want to thank the public for coming 18 this evening.        I think it was important and it was 19 because of the public that we asked the NRC to come 20 here this evening.          So I want to thank all of you for 21 showing up. And it's -- I think it's very instructive 22 for us as a Panel to hear what -- what you're thinking 23 and what your thoughts and concerns are because that's 24 part of what we -- we like to know, as well.
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143 1 want to make a comment and you didn't want to do it in 2 this forum or you go home tonight and you think of 3 something that you want to say, the NRC is accepting 4 comments on the license transfer until June 23rd. And 5 again, you can go on the NRC website or what we'll be 6 doing is emailing you out --.
7                MR. PARROTT:          Kate, could I -- this is 8 Jack Parrott over here in NRC --
9                Could I elaborate on that?
10                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Yes -- yes.
11                MR. PARROTT:        -- public comment part?
12                Yesterday,      we    published    our  Federal 13 Register notice that it offers that opportunity.                    And 14 I just want to make sure you know that it's -- the 15 website to do that is W W W dot regulations dot gov.
16 And you use the docket number NRC dash 2017 dash zero 17 one two five.        And all that information is in the 18 Federal Register notice.
19                I don't know if it's -- if it's possible 20 if you could put that Federal Register notice, maybe, 21 on your website, it might make it easier for people to 22 find information.
23                CHAIR O'CONNOR:        Yes, we will. We'll put 24 that on this -- our Panel has a site on the State of 25 Vermont's      website,    located      on    the Public  Service NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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144 1 Department site. And what we'll do is we'll make sure 2 that that link is on it.                And I'll make sure that we 3 email out to everybody what that email address is and 4 what the link is.          So we'll push the information out 5 as      much    as  we  can    so    that      everybody  has      that 6 information.
7                    There was a question earlier about where 8 people        can    find      the    slides        from  tonight's 9 presentations. And there are two places. Entergy has 10 a website, V Y decommissioning dot com.                      And again, 11 it's also on the State of Vermont's Public Service 12 Department website.            And the Nuclear Decommissioning 13 Citizens Advisory Panel has our own site there. So if 14 you're looking for that, you can find it.
15                    The  meeting        will      be  re-broadcast        on 16 B.C.T.V., if you want to watch it on your television 17 or you can see it any time online.                      So anything you 18 wanted, you can rewatch the meeting at two in the 19 morning if you -- if you have nothing else to do and 20 you can't sleep.
21                    I want to thank -- before we -- before we 22 do a little bit more housekeeping on the Panel, I do 23 want to thank the representatives from the NRC for 24 coming.        And I want to thank Scott State and Mike 25 Twomey for coming.            We appreciate it very much.
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145 1                  And I think somebody said this may be the 2 last time we ever see the NRC.                    And I don't think 3 that's true because there are other issues that are 4 going to be coming up.          And I had a conversation with 5 them, prior to this meeting, and there may be other 6 reasons for them to come up and fill us in on what's 7 going on. So we -- we appreciate that offer, as well.
8                  The next NDCAP meeting is, at this point, 9 scheduled for June 22nd.                We have confirmed that 10 representatives from Holtec, they are the company that 11 is doing the transferring of the fuel from the spent 12 fuel pool, to the second dry cask storage pad.                      They 13 have      confirmed  that    they    will      be  coming  to    the 14 meeting.
15                  We    also        have        confirmation        that 16 representatives        from    Areva,      which    is  one  of    the 17 partners      with  NorthStar,        will      be  coming    to    the 18 meeting.        There is a chance, based on everybody's 19 schedule, we're dealing with a lot of people, that 20 that meeting may be pushed back a week.                  And this is 21 news to some people in the room here, so I apologize 22 for springing it on you.
23                  So I'm going to be sending an email out to 24 the Panel and to all the people that are impacted if 25 we change the date and see if that's a changeable date NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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146 1 or not.        And what we do for all of you here is we post 2 all the information, the days and times and places of 3 our meetings, again on the State of Vermont website.
4 And we also email it out so we get it out as much as 5 possible.
6                  So tentatively, put June 22nd, but it may 7 be bumped back a week, depending on the logistics of 8 doing that.
9                  I don't know if anyone else on the Panel 10 wants to say anything before we adjourn our meeting?
11 No?      Everybody is going no.          So again, I want to --.
12                  SENATOR MACDONALD:            I'm sorry. Say that 13 again, Madam Chair?
14                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Does anyone want to say 15 anything before we adjourn the meeting?                  Oh, yes, we 16 got to give you a microphone, Senator.
17                  SENATOR MACDONALD:              Madam Chair, public 18 policy and decisions of this sort are best made when 19 there are clear rules of what happens in the future.
20 And the NRC's job or the Congress' job is to make it 21 clear who is responsible if such -- if this goes 22 forward.
23                  Many of us, including myself, would like 24 to see the money spent sooner, rather than later. But 25 if the NRC is not telling us who's responsible if a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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147 1 good faith project comes up short and the answer is 2 we'll find out when it happens, what use is the NRC?
3                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Does anyone else on the 4 Panel want to make a comment?
5                  Yes, Steve?
6                  MR. SKIBNIOWSKY: Steve Skibniowsky here.
7                  I'd like to just certainly thank all the 8 panelists and NRC. that are here this evening.                      But I 9 would also like to remind the panelists that during 10 the presentations, during the public comments and so 11 forth, it would be most courteous to refrain from 12 talking and essentially ignoring what the individuals 13 are saying, until they're finished speaking.
14                  And  I  think      it's    a    matter  of    common 15 curtesy in a public forum like this and I would like 16 to remind all of my fellow panelists that that, at 17 least, is the type of protocol that I'm familiar with 18 and would certainly support in the future.
19                  CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Thank you, Steve.
20                  Any  other    comments        or    questions      from 21 anyone on the Panel?
22                  All right.          Again, thank you all for 23 coming.
24                  David    Andrews      has      made    the  motion        to 25 adjourn.      Does anyone second that motion?
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148 1                UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER:              Second.
2                CHAIR O'CONNOR:          Everybody seconds that 3 motion.
4                All those in favor?
5                THE PANEL:      Aye.
6                CHAIR    O'CONNOR:            Thank    you.      We're 7 adjourning    and  thank      you    so    much,    everyone,      for 8 coming.
9                (The meeting adjourned at 9:36 p.m.)
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Latest revision as of 08:37, 4 December 2019

Transcript of Vermont Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens' Advisory Panel Meeting, May 25, 2017, Brattleboro, VT, Pages 1-148
ML17163A424
Person / Time
Site: Vermont Yankee Entergy icon.png
Issue date: 05/25/2017
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Text

Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

Title:

Vermont Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens' Advisory Panel Meeting Docket Number: (n/a)

Location: Brattleboro, Vermont Date: Thursday, May 25, 2017 Work Order No.: NRC-3086 Pages 1-148 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.

Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 + + + + +

4 VERMONT NUCLEAR DECOMMISSIONING CITIZENS' 5 ADVISORY PANEL MEETING 6 + + + + +

7 THURSDAY 8 MAY 25, 2017 9 + + + + +

10 BRATTLEBORO, VERMONT 11 The Public Meeting was convened at 109 12 Sunny Acres in Brattleboro, Vermont at 6:00 p.m. by 13 Kate O'Connor, Chair of the Vermont Nuclear 14 Decommissioning Citizens Advisory Panel, presiding 15 PRESENT:

16 Chris Campany, Windham Regional Commission.

17 David Deen, Citizen Member 18 Mark MacDonald, Vermont Senate Representative 19 Steve Skibniowsky, Town of Vernon 20 David Andrews, International Brotherhood of Electrical 21 Workers 22 Jim Tonkovich, Vermont Senate Representative 23 Martin Langeveld, Citizen Member 24 Jim Matteau, Citizen Member 25 Derrik Jordan, Citizen Member NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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2 1 Bill Irwin, Department of Health Radiological and 2 Toxicological Sciences.

3 Riley Allen, Deputy Commissioner, Vermont Department 4 of Public Service.

5 Mike McKenney, Entergy.

6 Jack Boyle, Entergy 7

8 9

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3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (6:05 p.m.)

3 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Good evening. Good 4 evening, everybody. My name is Kate O'Connor, and I 5 am the chair of the Vermont Nuclear Decommissioning 6 Citizens Advisory Panel, which is the meeting you are 7 all at tonight. And I want to officially call to 8 order the May 25th, 2017, meeting of the Panel.

9 What I'm going to do for some of you who 10 may -- this may be your first meeting, I want to 11 explain a little bit about what the Panel is and what 12 we do. We are a nineteen-member panel that was formed 13 by the Legislature back in 2014 when Entergy announced 14 that they would be closing Vermont Yankee. We have 15 been meeting since September 2014. And in that time, 16 I think we've had twenty-five or twenty-six meetings.

17 So we've been meeting pretty much on a regular basis.

18 The Legislature gave us a series of 19 duties, but the one that is really most relevant for 20 tonight is that we are -- we are to serve as a conduit 21 for public information and education, and to encourage 22 community involvement in all matters related to the 23 decommissioning of Vermont Yankee.

24 Before I go over the agenda, I want all of 25 our Panel members to introduce themselves. We have a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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4 1 diverse group. I was appointed by Governor Shumlin as 2 a citizen member of the Panel.

3 So Chris, do you want to start that on 4 your end?

5 MR. CAMPANY: Chris Campany, Windham 6 Regional Commission.

7 MR. DEEN: David Deen, citizen appointee 8 by the Speaker of the House.

9 SENATOR MACDONALD: Mark MacDonald, 10 Representative Vermont Senate and on this Panel.

11 MR. SKIBNIOWSKY: Good evening; I'm Steve 12 Skibniowsky, representing the Town of Vernon and 13 nominated by the Vernon Board of Selectmen.

14 MR. ANDREWS: David Andrews, representing 15 the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers 16 and representing the past and present employees of 17 Vermont Yankee.

18 MR. TONKOVICH: Jim Tonkovich, I'm an 19 appointee from the Senate President Pro Temp.

20 MR. LANGEVELD: Martin Langeveld, a 21 citizen member appointed by Governor Shumlin.

22 MR. MATTEAU: Jim Matteau, also a citizen 23 member appointed by the President Pro Temp.

24 MR. JORDAN: Derrik Jordan, citizen member 25 appointed by Shap Smith.

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5 1 DR. IRWIN: Bill Irwin, representing the 2 Agency of Human Services. I work for the Department 3 of Health Radiological and Toxicological Sciences.

4 MR. ALLEN: And I'm Riley Allen. I'm 5 Deputy Commissioner of the Vermont Department of 6 Public Service. I'm here sitting in for Commissioner 7 June Tierney, who is out of the country.

8 MR. MCKENNEY: Good evening. I'm Mike 9 McKenney. I'm representing Entergy.

10 MR. BOYLE: Good evening. I'm Jack Boyle, 11 also representing Entergy. I'm the Decommissioning 12 Director at Vermont Yankee.

13 CHAIR O'CONNOR: We're going to have you 14 guys -- you folks introduce yourselves in a minute.

15 This is an official meeting of our Panel.

16 And tonight, we have our special guests which are 17 representatives from Entergy and NorthStar and the 18 NRC. And they're going to be, as you know, on the 19 agenda for later.

20 The representatives from the NRC are here 21 to take public comment on the license transfer, which 22 is the sale from Entergy to NorthStar, and NorthStar's 23 post-shutdown decommissioning activities report, which 24 is called the P.S.D.A.R., which for all of you who 25 don't know what that is, it's the decommissioning plan NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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6 1 which includes the cost estimates for decommissioning 2 the plant.

3 The NRC is required to take public comment 4 on the license transfer, but they are not required to 5 hold a public meeting. But they have agreed to come 6 here tonight. The Panel invited them to come, as did 7 Vermont's congressional delegation. And I want to 8 thank their representatives of Senator Sanders, 9 Congressmen Welch, and Senator Leahy here tonight. We 10 have Haley Pero from Senator Sanders' office, Tom 11 Berry from Senator Leahy's office, and George Twigg 12 from Congressman Welch. And they can all wave.

13 So we really appreciate -- we appreciate 14 their help. And I also want to again thank the 15 Nuclear Regulatory Commission for accepting our 16 invitation to come here this evening.

17 Just so everybody knows, when we get to 18 the comment period all of the converse -- comments are 19 going to be recorded by the Nuclear Regulatory 20 Commission and entered into the public record. If you 21 don't want to comment this evening, there is a 22 mechanism that you can do so through the NRC website.

23 And the comment period is going to be through June 24 23rd.

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7 1 on how to do it on the State of Vermont's website.

2 And if no one minds, if you signed up, I will send you 3 how to get that. So if you're shy and you don't want 4 to make a comment tonight, you have another close to 5 a month to do so.

6 The first half of the meeting, we're going 7 to have Entergy and NorthStar talk to us about the 8 license transfer and the post-shutdown decommissioning 9 activities report. And then the NRC is going to walk 10 us through the process that they used to decide 11 whether they're going to accept the license transfer 12 application.

13 One of the things I want to remind 14 everybody is that this is an NDCAP meeting and we're 15 a Panel that was created by the state, which means we 16 follow all Open Meeting Laws and we follow Robert's 17 Rules of Order and a charter that we all developed two 18 and a half years ago.

19 So what I would ask is that everybody sort 20 of respect how we run our meetings. They've gone 21 smoothly in the past, so I'm hoping that they will go 22 smoothly tonight. And I think we're going to start 23 what we normally do at -- at our meetings, Joe Lynch, 24 who is the Senior Government Affairs Manager, gives us 25 an update on the decommissioning of the plant.

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8 1 So for those of you who have been here 2 before, this will be like the next chapter or whatever 3 in the book. For some of you, this may be the first 4 time that you hear a decommissioning report from Joe.

5 And everything that -- the presentations that Joe 6 gives are on -- the Entergy has a website, V Y 7 decommissioning dot com. So if you're really 8 intrigued and want to watch everything that's happened 9 before -- or see everything that's happened before you 10 can easily catch up with that.

11 So I guess we'll turn it over to Joe.

12 MR. LYNCH: Thank you, Kate.

13 Next slide, please.

14 As Kate has mentioned, my name is Joe 15 Lynch. I'm a Senior Government Affairs Manager for 16 Entergy Vermont Yankee. I'm going to provide you with 17 a brief update on the status of decommissioning, the 18 decommissioning trust fund, and some of the activities 19 that we have moving towards the transaction.

20 Next slide, please. Next slide.

21 One of the key projects right now at the 22 site is the construction of the second of two dry fuel 23 storage pads. The construction on the second pad 24 started back in 2016. There was a break over the 25 winter period due to weather. We restarted NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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9 1 construction of the pad on March 13th. We've been 2 moving right along with progress. Just this week, we 3 completed the reinforcing bar placement for the second 4 pad. So the pad is now ready to accept concrete. And 5 that -- that pour will be scheduled, we believe, next 6 week, weather depending.

7 In addition to that, we've been going 8 through the efforts of getting ready for our 2017 dry 9 fuel storage campaign. At this point, we're 10 estimating that if we start over the next couple 11 weeks, which is our target, we'll be loading 12 approximately twenty dry casks in 2017. Then again, 13 we'll take a break over the winter for weather reasons 14 and we'll complete the remaining dry casks. There's 15 a total of forty-five casks that have yet to be 16 loaded. There are thirteen on the pad right now for 17 our total of fifty-eight.

18 Our target is to have all fuel transferred 19 either in the late third quarter of 2018 or early 20 fourth quarter of 2018. Again, part of that is 21 weather dependent and ensuring that our -- we meet our 22 -- our schedule.

23 Next slide, please.

24 Some current pictures in the upper right-25 hand corner, that is the correct configuration of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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10 1 first pad with the thirteen casks. We recently 2 rearranged that configuration to be ready for the 3 acceptance of the new loaded cask, which I had 4 mentioned we'll start very soon.

5 The picture in the lower left is the 6 pouring of what is known as the leveling slab. So 7 this is essentially the -- a pad that is put in place.

8 We can then place the rebar on top of it. That was 9 done recently and that sets the stage for then 10 constructing the second pad.

11 Next slide, please.

12 On the right-hand side, you can see 13 workers putting the rebar in place -- the reinforcing 14 bar in place on top of that leveling slab. And then 15 you can see, in the lower left, the rebar being rigged 16 in place. This is very heavy steel that is placed in 17 a -- in a very detailed configuration. It is then 18 wired together and in advance of us pouring the 19 concrete.

20 Next slide, please.

21 We've been talking about water management 22 for about a year and a half now. As many of you know 23 from previous meetings, we have water entering into 24 the lower elevations of our turbine building. Over 25 that period of time, we have made measures to capture NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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11 1 that water stored on site and then ultimately ship it.

2 We continue to monitor the intrusion water 3 and address it by making repairs to any cracks or 4 crevices where water is coming in. We continue those 5 efforts and they've been very successful in reducing 6 the amount of intrusion water. This time of year and 7 in the springtime is -- is typically a time of the 8 year that you see an increase in the groundwater 9 elevation and, therefore, an increase in that 10 intrusion. Because of the efforts we've been able to 11 maintain and manage that to very low numbers. I don't 12 have today's number, but I think we're looking at 13 about three -- about six hundred gallons a day is --

14 is the number that -- that we're seeing.

15 The groundwater is captured, placed into 16 frac tanks, tested and then shipped to EnergySolutions 17 where they have a licensed disposal site in Tennessee.

18 Right now, we're shipping about three per month at the 19 present intrusion rate. And we've shipped five 20 hundred and seventeen thousand gallons to date.

21 Next slide, please. Next slide.

22 In regards to the two efforts that are 23 necessary to go forward with the transaction, one, of 24 course, will be discussed in a very short matter of 25 time as the NRC has been requested to take a look at NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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12 1 a license transfer application, as well as the revised 2 P.S.D.A.R. We're also going through the process of 3 seeking approval from the State of Vermont Public 4 Service Board through the Certificate of Public Good 5 Process.

6 The first round of discovery requests on 7 us were sent out on March 17th. We provided responses 8 on April 26th. There has been a request by Department 9 of Public Service and others to extend -- extend that 10 a bit because of certain documents that are -- are 11 confidential in nature. So we had to file a motion to 12 ensure that these confidential documents were treated 13 in a certain way, and that those -- those entities 14 that intervened would -- would respect them that way.

15 There's also a couple of documents that 16 are very sensitive to NorthStar's business that also 17 need special treatment. And we're going through the 18 process right now of getting that protocol worked out.

19 So the second round of discovery requests 20 on us were supposed to be May 10th, but because of the 21 delay in this handling of documents, that will be 22 delayed to be about three weeks after all documents 23 have been produced.

24 There's also been some motions by some of 25 the intervenors, including New England Coalition, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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13 1 asking for partial summary judgment going back to some 2 earlier dockets on some orders that had already been 3 made. Those are going through the process in the 4 Public Service Board.

5 Bottom line, very detailed, very 6 comprehensive process of going through this approval 7 in the State of Vermont. And we're hoping that this 8 will all take place over the next year or so with 9 approval at the end of first quarter 2018.

10 Next slide, please. Next slide.

11 An update on the Nuclear Decommissioning 12 Trust Fund at the end of March, last reported the 13 Decommissioning Trust Fund was at five hundred and 14 sixty-eight point nine million dollars. The most 15 current number at the end of April was five hundred 16 and seventy million dollars. That increase was due to 17 positive market performance, offset by the qualified 18 reimbursements that we have made from the trust and 19 some of the fund expenses that we have to pay, 20 essentially taxes.

21 So to date in 2017, we've made just under 22 twelve million dollars in qualified withdrawals.

23 We've earned about twenty-one point seven million 24 dollars in market gains and paid one point four 25 million dollars in -- in expenses.

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14 1 The second trust that we've been 2 maintaining is a Site Restoration Trust. This is 3 wholly funded by Entergy. We have made four payments 4 of five million dollars, or twenty million dollars.

5 However, due to growth of the trust fund, that 6 currently stands at twenty-three point six million 7 dollars at the end of April. And we have one five 8 million dollars contribution yet to be made at the end 9 of this year.

10 Next slide, please.

11 Insofar as our communications and 12 providing information to the public, we continue, 13 obviously, to participate in this Panel. We continue 14 to do speaking engagements, media interviews, local 15 advertising, and we continue to be very strong 16 partners with our community. On occasion, we are able 17 to do tours at the site. They, of course, are going 18 to be impacted by ongoing site activities. So we need 19 to be mindful to a lot of work that's going on at the 20 site. So we ask, if we have these type of tours, we 21 get advance notice.

22 And then of course, we continue to put 23 information out through our website V Y 24 decommissioning dot com. And I'm happy to report that 25 the website has been updated recently and it continues NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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15 1 to be updated. This is a screenshot. If you were to 2 go on to V Y decommissioning dot com, you will see 3 kind of the updated website that now has search 4 capabilities. And it is being updated constantly with 5 the latest information.

6 And we're also going through the process 7 of renaming a lot of these documents to make it easier 8 for individuals to find them and kind of migrate their 9 way through. There's been a lot of information put 10 out. And we're committed to making sure that we can 11 get that information out efficiently.

12 And unless there's any questions, that was 13 kind of the end of what I planned and prepared, Kate.

14 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great; thank you, Joe.

15 Just so everybody -- I'm not sure how many 16 people have the paper agenda. And we're going to 17 flash it up on the screen later. The public comment 18 portion of this meeting will start in about an hour.

19 And if you want to speak and haven't signed up, there 20 are sign-up sheets over on the table. We will have a 21 break after the presentations are made. So you don't 22 have to storm the table right now. There will be 23 opportunity between when this portion ends and when 24 the public comment period begins.

25 Next, I want to invite Scott State, who is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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16 1 the C.E.O. of NorthStar, and Mike Twomey, who is the 2 Vice President for External Affairs of Entergy, to --

3 I guess, you're going to walk us through the license 4 transfer and possibly the P.S.D.A.R., but I'll let you 5 tell us what you're going to talked about.

6 MR. TWOMEY: Thank you, Kate.

7 This is Mike Twomey on behalf of Entergy.

8 This is a joint presentation between Entergy and 9 NorthStar. I have a limited role at the frontend of 10 the presentation and I'll be turning it over to Scott 11 in just -- just a few minutes.

12 I want to thank the Panel and the 13 chairwoman for inviting us to participate in this 14 meeting tonight, provide additional information about 15 this transaction. So with no more introductory 16 remarks, I'll go to the next slide.

17 Start briefly with what I hope is a 18 complementary update without duplicating anything that 19 Joe Lynch just covered. Right now, we have 20 approximately a hundred and fifty employees at the 21 site. That is our -- our staffing level that we 22 expect to maintain through approximately the third or 23 fourth quarter of 2018. The next major milestone is 24 the completion of the dry fuel storage project.

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17 1 to earlier is completed, when all of the canisters 2 have been moved on to the pad, all the spent fuel 3 moved out of the pool, we will have a staffing 4 reduction at that time. Along the way, we will 5 continue to have our communications with the Panel, as 6 well as employees and regulatory bodies.

7 Joe mentioned we've got a certificate of 8 public good pending in front of the Public Service 9 Board. In -- in general, for those of you who weren't 10 that familiar with it, it's an application seeking 11 approval from the Public Service Board for the 12 transaction that we've proposed.

13 We have a similar, but -- but separate, 14 filing pending in front of the Nuclear Regulatory 15 Commission. We also need approval from that federal 16 agency for the transaction.

17 Joe spent some time talking about the 18 discovery issues. I'll say that right now the 19 procedural schedule contemplates one more public 20 hearing opportunity, similar to the one that we had 21 earlier in the year. I don't believe the date of that 22 has been nailed down. I think it's currently 23 September 5th or 6th, depending on -- on availability.

24 That date, itself, may be adjusted, depending on where 25 we are with the discovery process and the -- and the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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18 1 testimony process.

2 We will have evidentiary hearings, 3 technical hearings, I believe, is the right term in 4 front of the Public Service Board, late in the year.

5 Those hearings are currently scheduled for November.

6 But it is -- is possible that the discovery issues and 7 the testimony deadlines will impact the schedule for 8 the technical hearing. So I would say that at this 9 point those -- those are not set in stone.

10 We have requested that the board take 11 action on the application by the end of the first 12 quarter of 2018. We obviously have no power to compel 13 the schedule for the board. We've simply told them 14 that -- that that's the schedule we -- we would hope 15 they could meet. And we'll just see how the process 16 unfolds.

17 We've got the license transfer application 18 pending at the NRC. And NorthStar submitted an 19 updated post-shutdown decommissioning activities 20 report on April 6th. And I'm going to let Scott talk 21 about those details. But in general, those of you 22 who've been following this closely, Entergy filed a 23 P.S.D.A.R. back in November of 2014.

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19 1 and would become the operative document for the 2 project if the transaction is approved by both the NRC 3 and the P.S.B. The -- the timeline at the bottom 4 there on -- on this slide is -- is the timeline that 5 was reflected in the post-shutdown decommissioning 6 activities report that Entergy submitted back in 2014.

7 Everyone knows we ceased commercial operations in 8 December of 2014. The reactor was permanently 9 defueled in January 2015. We contemplated fuel 10 transfer by 2020.

11 So the first update that you've gotten in 12 the last few months is that we now believe we can 13 complete that fuel transfer by the third or fourth 14 quarter of 2018, which is a two-year improvement on 15 the fuel transfer schedule that we had originally 16 anticipated.

17 That means that the SAFSTORE dormancy 18 period would commence under our ownership, if we 19 retain ownership, after the fuel is moved to the pad 20 in 2018. And that will be of some indeterminate 21 length. I don't want to go into too much detail 22 tonight because we're really focused on the license 23 transfer application. But that SAFSTORE period will 24 be however long it needs to be under the requirements 25 of the settlement agreement that we have at the State NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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20 1 of Vermont, the funding of the Nuclear Decommissioning 2 Trust Fund, and the decommissioning cost estimate that 3 we have for the project under Entergy's ownership.

4 And so the rest of the dates are -- are, 5 again, dates that would be in -- in effect if Entergy 6 retains the ownership of the site.

7 So if we go to the next slide?

8 I'll just -- you know, introduce this 9 concept again, which is that one of the primary 10 benefits of the proposed transaction is that it 11 substantially accelerates the safe decommissioning of 12 the plant under ownership of a company and -- and with 13 work, with a team that it's put together that has the 14 capacity and the experience and the expertise to 15 complete the decommissioning project on a much quicker 16 timeline than under Entergy's ownership.

17 And so with that, I'll turn the 18 presentation over to Scott State.

19 MR. STATE: Thank you, Mike.

20 And thank you, Kate.

21 I'm Scott State. I'm the Chief Executive 22 Officer of NorthStar. Just with a show of hands, how 23 many folks are here that haven't been to any of these 24 meetings before where we've spoken? Not too many.

25 That -- that's good. That means there's, I think, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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21 1 good engagement among the community here. I'm not 2 going to go over a lot of things that I've gone over 3 before. But I do want to, initially here, cover who 4 our team is.

5 NorthStar, if -- if you go around the 6 room, you can see we've put up some large photographs 7 this evening to show you some of the large-scale 8 projects that -- that we've done. And I'm going to 9 get to that in a little bit, but it's important, just 10 in terms of the scale of work that we do, as we 11 consider how we would do this project. And you know, 12 what you'll find is that the size of projects that 13 we've done in many -- many cases bound the size of 14 Vermont Yankee. And -- and I'll talk through that a 15 little bit more as we get into it.

16 In addition to ourselves on our team, 17 we've got AREVA and we've talked about AREVA at past 18 meetings. AREVA's a large nuclear services business.

19 It's a French-owned company. The subsidiary that we 20 work with is a U.S. based firm in Washington D.C. And 21 they have a couple of specific things they're going to 22 do for us on this project.

23 One is they are going to segment the 24 reactor vessel and the reactor vessel internals. And 25 that -- that's a significant component of the project NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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22 1 in that it's got a high degree of highly radioactive 2 material. That's one of the first activities that 3 we'll do. AREVA will also be assisting us over the 4 many years that we will be caretaker for the spent 5 nuclear fuel that will remain at the site until the 6 Department of Energy comes and removes it.

7 A second subcontractor is Burns and 8 McDonnell. Burns and McDonnell is a large engineering 9 firm based in Kansas City. And they are specifically 10 going to support us with some engineering activities 11 and some licensing activities as we do this project.

12 And our third supplier is Waste Control 13 Specialists, or W.C.S., based in Texas, an important 14 component of this team because they take the 15 radioactive waste or the material that comes from the 16 decommissioning project and it goes to their site in 17 Texas for disposal.

18 W.C.S. is part of -- is the disposal site 19 for the Texas and Vermont Compact. So by statute, the 20 material created at this project will have a right to 21 be disposed at that site and they're are partner on 22 this project as well.

23 Turning to the next slide, I'll let Mike 24 start off. This is a transition period between 25 Entergy and -- and NorthStar.

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23 1 MR. TWOMEY: So for very briefly, we shut 2 the facility down in 2014 and over the next several 3 years we've been focused on getting the dry fuel 4 storage campaign completed. That is taking the spent 5 nuclear fuel that's currently in the spent nuclear 6 fuel pool and moving it into the canisters that are on 7 the dry cask storage cask pads in the yard. And the 8 -- the effort to do that, when completed, will have 9 removed approximately ninety-five percent or more of 10 the radioactive material from the plant and isolated 11 that to the ISFSI pad.

12 The next step after you do that is to 13 focus on the major dismantling work. And as the owner 14 of that facility in 2014, we were hearing loud and 15 clear from the community, from the state, from all 16 stakeholders, that the primary concern was that this 17 site be decommissioned as quickly as possible, while 18 -- while safely, but -- but not have the site languish 19 for -- for sixty years.

20 And so in an effort to be responsive to 21 those concerns, we evaluated the potential for another 22 owner of that facility who is an expert in 23 decommissioning, and -- and made the determination 24 that this project could be turned over to a new owner 25 who could do it as safely as we could, but more cost NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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24 1 effectively and more efficiently than we could. And 2 then that presents the opportunity for this 3 transaction that we're talking about this evening.

4 And with that, I'll turn it over to Scott 5 to talk about what work they would do if the 6 transaction were approved.

7 MR. STATE: So if -- if this transaction 8 does get approved in 2018, we will take ownership of 9 the site. And the first two years of our project work 10 will be focused on segmenting the reactor vessel and 11 the reactor vessel internals. And that will take the 12 removal of radiological material out of the plant to 13 about ninety-nine percent of what was the original 14 source term, leaving about one percent residual 15 radioactive material that we will be removing, with a 16 very vast majority of the volume of material coming 17 out of the site after that. And this is contamination 18 on concrete and that sort of thing that we will be 19 dealing with post the removal of the vessel in the 20 internals.

21 So you can see the title of this chart is 22 actually Vermont Yankee Contaminated Site Cleanup.

23 And it's -- it's an important distinction that we make 24 when we look at a project like this. We aren't 25 nuclear power plant operators. And we don't really NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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25 1 view this specifically as a cleanup of a facility 2 that's a nuclear power plant. We view it as 3 decommissioning of a contaminated site.

4 And all around this room, you see pictures 5 of large projects that we've done where we've 6 decommissioned some type of contaminated site. And it 7 may have been contaminated with radiological materials 8 or P.C.B.s or mercury or other hazardous components or 9 asbestos, but -- but everything that we do as a 10 company is -- involves remediating contaminated 11 facilities or sites. And that's exactly how we view 12 Vermont Yankee.

13 So you know, our project durations here, 14 you can see that once we get the vessel out, and the 15 internals, those are segmented, they're packaged, and 16 they are shipped to Texas. We've got about a six-year 17 program planned at this point in time for the final 18 decommissioning activities which would take the site 19 to what would be determined a partial site release.

20 And it's called a partial site release 21 because the ISFSI with the spent fuel in the -- in the 22 canisters that are -- are there, that piece of the 23 site can't be released until that fuel is taken away.

24 So site-wise, you know, all but a very small number of 25 acres can be released in -- in roughly 2026. And that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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26 1 would be our target schedule at this point.

2 And then how long we -- we have the ISFSI 3 in place is -- is really not in our control. We 4 certainly would like to see D.O.E. come and take that 5 fuel away. Once that piece of the project is done, we 6 will remove the ISFSI pad. And all of that remaining 7 material and the site then will be -- will go for a 8 final license determination and a full site release.

9 So as I mentioned, as a company, NorthStar 10 has decommissioned thousands of facilities of various 11 sizes with various types of contaminants. There's a 12 number of projects back here that have radiological 13 components, some of them significantly larger in 14 various aspects of the work. What we've done with 15 these -- with these photographs -- and we'll probably 16 present these again at -- at future meetings. And you 17 know, if folks want to talk when we're at the break 18 with any of our people, we've got quite a few of our 19 employees here this evening that can kind of walk you 20 through these various projects.

21 But there's placards on each project that 22 show you the volume of contaminated concrete metal and 23 soil that was involved in each one of them. And then 24 there's also a line on those that show you what the 25 equivalent or the same amount -- materials are in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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27 1 Vermont Yankee. And it will give you kind of an idea, 2 I think, that we've got a lot of bounding projects on 3 a comparative basis.

4 We also have a short video which we'll 5 show in just a few minutes. And it's -- a lot of it 6 is time lapse footage of us removing large structures, 7 commercial industrial structures, and that type of 8 thing. And you can see -- over, you know, less than 9 ten minutes, you'll see many years of work that we've 10 done on a time lapse basis.

11 So going forward to the next -- excuse me 12 -- three charts, this chart -- on each of the next 13 three charts, you'll see a green box. The green box 14 is the volume of material that we will be removing on 15 an annual basis at Vermont Yankee. Vermont Yankee is 16 a six-year project with various phases. So on an 17 annual basis, we look at how much material we would 18 generate in each of three primary waste classes; 19 concrete, metals, and soil.

20 So in terms of concrete, I don't know if 21 you can read this in the audience or not, but the --

22 the primary large structures that we deal with that 23 have concrete are going to be commercial. Power 24 plants -- you know, nuclear power plants have a 25 significant amount of concrete because it's -- you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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28 1 know, it's the way the plants are built and it has 2 shielding capabilities. But for the most part, the 3 very large amounts of concrete waste that are 4 generated in decommissioning projects come from 5 commercial jobs.

6 And as you can see, the -- the largest 7 facility here, an industrial facility, which happened 8 to be a smelter, had two hundred thousand tons of 9 concrete per year. And the reason this is important 10 is in a project like this, these types of projects are 11 logistics jobs. You're -- you're moving volumes of 12 material and your ability to move volumes of material 13 will determine how quickly you can get the work done.

14 So you know, just on a comparative basis, 15 Vermont Yankee is about sixteen thousand tons of 16 concrete per year. Our largest project that we've 17 done in the last five to seven years is two hundred 18 thousand. All of these projects, there's 19 approximately fifteen I think here, are -- are, you 20 know, roughly double or more the size of the amount of 21 concrete that we will generate and remove at Vermont 22 Yankee.

23 Similarly, the next slide shows metals.

24 In a project like this, the primary metals in a 25 nuclear plant are going to be rebar. Joe showed you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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29 1 the construction of the ISFSI. The laying of rebar.

2 If you are familiar with how this plant was built, the 3 -- the structures of this plant have a lot of very 4 heavy rebar in them. So we will be breaking the 5 concrete out and separating the metal, typically, the 6 rebar mesh, and packaging all of this for disposal at 7 the W.C.S. site in Texas.

8 So from -- from this figure, you can see 9 that as far as metals on projects, there are a lot of 10 these projects that are power plants. And a fossil 11 plant, interestingly enough, has a lot more structural 12 steel in it than a nuclear plant. The structural 13 materials in a nuclear plant, a lot of those are 14 actually concrete. In a fossil plant, there are 15 typically large steel members and then a lot of rebar 16 mesh, as well.

17 But you know, here, you can see we've got 18 a number of projects, some two to three times the size 19 of Vermont Yankee, on an annual production basis of 20 metals that we would have removed and disposed of.

21 And then the last slide deals directly 22 with soils. And when we went through and looked at 23 these kinds of projects, we actually -- we do a lot of 24 heavy civil environmental work where we maybe build 25 levees and dams and that sort of thing. We took all NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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30 1 of that out because that's really not dealing with 2 contaminated soils. This is all projects that deal 3 with soil that has some type of contamination.

4 And you know, at power plant sites, that 5 could be things like coal ash and a number of 6 different things, soils that maybe come out of an 7 industrial facility that have mercury or P.H.s or 8 P.C.B.s or something like that. At Vermont Yankee, 9 we're looking at a site that's, you know, likely going 10 to have more radiological contamination in the soil 11 than these other types of components.

12 In one of the pictures in the back corner 13 is a project that we did a couple of years ago at the 14 Hanford site where we removed two hundred and fifty 15 thousand tons of soil, radiologically contaminated 16 soil. And by comparison, we -- we think the, you 17 know, soil volume, as we currently are looking at it, 18 is about twenty-eight thousand tons at Vermont Yankee.

19 So a project roughly ten times the size of Vermont 20 Yankee in terms of remediating radiologically 21 contaminated soils.

22 MR. TWOMEY: All right. So I think we 23 covered this, but the -- but the milestones then are 24 -- we are -- we have requested that the NRC take 25 action on the license transfer amendment by the end of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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31 1 the year. I'll make the same disclaimer I made with 2 respect to the Public Service Board. We have no 3 ability to control the schedule at the NRC So we've 4 simply made the request. And we are hopeful that if 5 we have submitted all the proper material and they've 6 got the information that they need, that a decision 7 could be reached. But that's a hope and a target, not 8 a -- not a definitive date.

9 And the Public Service Board, I mentioned 10 March 2018 was the -- was the request. And the spent 11 fuel movement to the ISFSI, I'd say that's an element 12 over which we have much greater control. That's --

13 that's operational control on our side. The dry cask 14 campaign for 2017 should begin next week to move 15 twenty of the remaining forty-five casks. That would 16 leave twenty-five casks to be moved next year. If we 17 stay on schedule, we should be done by -- by the 18 fourth quarter.

19 And then if we receive approvals from the 20 NRC and the Public Service Board, and if those 21 approvals do not contain any conditions that are 22 unacceptable to the parties, we would hope to close 23 the transaction at the end of 2018.

24 And with that, I believe there's a short 25 video that the -- our expert driver over there is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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32 1 going to tee up and get moving.

2 (A video was played.)

3 MR. STATE: This is a project that we did 4 a couple of years ago. And it's basically an entire 5 city block in the middle of Los Angeles. And so you 6 can imagine the logistics, trying to get material out, 7 fifty thousand tons of concrete. And essentially, we 8 -- we removed this building one floor at a time, 9 taking the material from the top to the bottom, 10 putting it on transport vehicles, and taking it out of 11 the middle of the City of Los Angeles. And when we 12 got done, that's a site much like Vermont Yankee will 13 look like.

14 This project, we did about four or five 15 years ago. This is Launch Pad 39-B, which has some 16 historical significance. It's the launch pad that the 17 Challenger launched from. I'm not sure if it's the 18 last launch from that pad. This video doesn't really 19 give you necessarily a good idea of the scale of this 20 structure. It's -- it's incredibly large and there 21 were lot of constraints on this. We couldn't drop 22 material like this to the ground. The pad -- the 23 launch pad itself had to be retained and kept in good 24 order because they had a mobile launch structure they 25 were going to use on the pad after we finished.

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33 1 This just shows some of the specially 2 equipment we use that -- that we will be using here, 3 as well. And then this is a time lapse of the 4 structure over a period of a number of months as we 5 picked and peeled away all the pieces and -- and took 6 the entire structure apart.

7 This is a structure in the middle of Las 8 Vegas. Anybody that's been there would probably 9 recognize the facility. This -- this was a twenty-10 seven-story building that was constructed, never 11 opened, had structural defects, and had to be removed.

12 It sits right on Las Vegas Boulevard, so again a very 13 significant logistics challenge to get that much 14 concrete out on a busy corner, another successful job 15 about two years ago.

16 This is a project at an Ivy School. We do 17 a lot of work in the northeast, removing old 18 facilities at the -- the Ivy League schools and -- and 19 other facilities in the Boston area. And so this is 20 a project that we've -- I think we're still conducting 21 today, but it's some work I believe we did last year.

22 What you see there is the concrete and 23 rebar mesh that's -- that's generally mixed together.

24 This is a project that's larger than Vermont in every 25 respect. It's a powerplant in New York. And it's a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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34 1 project that we are just finishing up some of the 2 soils remediation at this point in time and receding.

3 But you can see this is a project that was done in the 4 city environment, and large boilers, so a lot of 5 metal, a lot of concrete, a very old structure, a lot 6 of contamination from the types of fuels used here.

7 And, you know, at the end of the day a site that --

8 that went off without a hitch. And, you know, 9 logistically probably or size-wise, the property is, 10 you know, similar size to Vermont Yankee, as well.

11 Those are stacks that are somewhat similar 12 to the Vermont Yankee stacks. Those are about three 13 days apiece using specialty equipment that we use the 14 stack removal.

15 So this is a New York Power Authority 16 plant that we did about a year and a half ago. We 17 finished a very large project. This plant actually 18 has a boiler. We believe it's the largest boiler that 19 -- that may have ever been constructed. Massive steel 20 structure to deal with in this -- this facility, and 21 a pretty -- pretty intense environment in terms of 22 working, essentially, in the City of New York, taking 23 this plant down.

24 We do take down a number of structures in 25 the middle of New York City. We removed the entire NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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35 1 St. Vincent's Hospital. We did all the renovation 2 work at Madison Square Garden. We did most of the 3 removal of Yankee Stadium. None of those projects are 4 depicted here. They're not particularly relevant to 5 Vermont Yankee. But we're accustomed to doing very 6 large projects in -- in complicated and difficult 7 places.

8 There's some key -- you know, key things 9 about this kind of project and about Vermont Yankee.

10 You know, we -- we do a lot of decontamination and 11 removal of environmental contaminants inside these 12 structures. When you peel off the outside of the 13 structure, then you're just removing structural 14 materials and steel in an environment that's been 15 decontaminated.

16 And this is another facility in Las Vegas 17 that we did last summer, a large multi-block structure 18 that we did on a very accelerated timeline. We 19 actually did this project in about nine months. It 20 was a Fastrac site. One of the things you don't see 21 here is this is a site that we actually imploded. And 22 I didn't want to have video of implosions because 23 we're not going to use implosions at Vermont Yankee.

24 I didn't want to give anybody the visual of the 25 massive cloud of dust that rises when you do that type NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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36 1 of thing.

2 We do have a photograph in the back, left 3 corner of a cooling tower at the Savannah River 4 nuclear site that we also took down by implosion. It 5 was a clean tower that our government had built for 6 about one hundred million dollars and never used. So 7 we imploded it and removed that a few years ago.

8 But, yeah, this is a site when you can do 9 implosion, it's a very fast way to take down 10 structures of this type. And you get the material to 11 the ground, you process the concrete out and the metal 12 out.

13 So of note, you know, we've stated a 14 number of times that we're a very safety conscious and 15 environmental regulatory compliant company and -- and 16 every project you saw there was operated in that type 17 of manner.

18 That's it.

19 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you very 20 much.

21 Now, I want to introduce, or have them 22 introduce themselves, the representatives that have 23 come here from the Nuclear Regulatory Commission.

24 They're going to explain the process that they go 25 through in order to approve or not approve the license NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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37 1 transfer that Entergy and NorthStar are asking for.

2 And again, I want to thank you folks for 3 coming tonight. And I know we'll have some questions 4 and comments for you after your presentation. So 5 thank you.

6 MS. KOCK: My name's Andrea Kock. I'm the 7 Deputy Director of our Decommissioning Division in NRC 8 Headquarters from Rockville, Maryland. I also wanted 9 to thank Kate and her colleagues of the Panel for 10 inviting us here tonight, as well as the Vermont 11 delegation.

12 We do appreciate the opportunity to be 13 here and we are pleased to be here. And I mean that 14 sincerely because it is important for us to consider 15 your comments with regard to our regulatory processes.

16 It's important that we touch base with you and 17 consider those comments as part of our process. We do 18 very much appreciate the invitation this evening.

19 As Kate mentioned, the main purpose of us 20 being here tonight is to gather your comments with 21 regard to our review of the application we have before 22 us for transfer of the Vermont Yankee license to 23 NorthStar. And Kate also mentioned that we recently, 24 just this week, issued a federal notice asking for 25 comments on the application. So this is your NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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38 1 opportunity to get your comments in early.

2 And I also wanted to mention that we're 3 transcribing your comments during the meeting tonight.

4 So if you have a comment you've made the comment at 5 the meeting, there isn't a need for you to submit an 6 additional comment on the docket to the NRC.

7 What we're going to do tonight is provide 8 you an overview, as Kate mentioned, of what we look at 9 when we look at a transfer application, our process, 10 and the criteria that we use. And I want to assure 11 you that that review will be independent and thorough.

12 As one of the cornerstones of the way the NRC operates 13 as an independent regulator, it's very important to us 14 as an organization and it's important to me as an 15 individual that that's the way we operate.

16 And part of us being independent and 17 thorough is getting out in the community to hear from 18 you, but also getting out to the sites that we 19 regulate. And in that vein, we did visit the Vermont 20 Yankee site today to get a sense of what's going on 21 there from a decommissioning perspective. And I think 22 that helps us to put our own eyes on the site and 23 gather our own thoughts so that we make sure we are 24 being independent, as well as having a good 25 understanding of what's going on, on the ground.

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39 1 I'll just take a minute here to introduce 2 the NRC staff that are going to present this evening.

3 First, we're going to hear from Bruce Watson. He's 4 our Chief of the Reactor Decommissioning Branch. He 5 has extensive experience in decommissioning and he's 6 going to go over for you just an overview of the 7 decommissioning process and our process for review of 8 the transfer application.

9 And then we're going to hear from Jack 10 Parrott, here to my left. He's our project manager 11 for the Vermont Yankee site. He's going to go into a 12 little bit more detail for you about the process we 13 follow and some of the considerations that we look at 14 in the transfer application.

15 And then lastly, we'll hear from Mike 16 Dusaniwskyj. He's an economist who works for the NRC.

17 He looks at all of the decommissioning funding reviews 18 that we do to make sure that plants have adequate 19 decommissioning funding to decommission.

20 I just also wanted to mention that we have 21 Ray Powell here. He's from our Philadelphia office in 22 the region. He's sitting here in the front row. If 23 you have questions about our oversight process, an 24 important thing that Bruce will touch on is that the 25 NRC's oversight doesn't stop when a plant goes into NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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40 1 decommissioning. We do extensive inspections 2 periodically and Ray's group leads those inspections 3 from our regional office in Philadelphia.

4 And just one final note and then I'll turn 5 it over to Bruce. I did want to echo something that 6 Kate said. Our review is currently ongoing of the 7 application. So we haven't made any conclusions about 8 whether NorthStar is financially or technically 9 qualified to hold the license. We're still in the 10 initial stages of our review. So we won't be able to 11 give you any bottom-line conclusions about what we 12 think about this or that.

13 And I don't want you to take that as us 14 being standoffish or -- or hiding something. We're --

15 just we're not at that point of process. We can tell 16 you what we look at, the criteria that we go by, but 17 we haven't drawn any conclusions one way or the other 18 at this point in the review.

19 We can let you know where we are in the 20 process. We're happy to answer questions. We would 21 really appreciate your comments. And because we 22 haven't made any conclusions, some of our responses 23 may be just thank you for your comment because we 24 don't at this point have a conclusion. And I wanted 25 to make that clear.

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41 1 At this point, I'll turn it over to Bruce 2 Watson. And again, thank you for inviting us.

3 MR. WATSON: Well, thank you again for 4 having us come out tonight and for the invitation.

5 I want to give a real quick, brief 6 overview of -- of a few of the items before we get 7 into some of the more detail from the staff. On slide 8 one, I just remind everybody that the NRC role in 9 decommissioning is to ensure that the facility or site 10 is removed from service, and that the radiological 11 conditions will meet the license -- criteria for 12 license termination.

13 And we have two conditions in which that 14 license can be terminated, under unrestricted use or 15 restricted use. To date, all decommissioning sites in 16 the United States, including the ten power reactors 17 that had been completed decommissioning and had their 18 licenses terminated, have been released for 19 unrestricted use, meaning the owner can use the 20 property for whatever purpose they have intended to do 21 in the future.

22 And for this particular site, I believe 23 both Entergy and NorthStar will be -- have the 24 criteria that they're going to release the site, 25 terminate the license for unrestricted release.

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42 1 Also, I want to point out that once the 2 license is terminated, or in parallel with the license 3 terminations process, the actual restoration of the 4 site is up to the owner and the state and its 5 stakeholders. So once the radioactive material's 6 removed, they're free to do whatever they choose to do 7 for the site.

8 Can we go to the next slide, please?

9 In April 2017, a revised P.S.D.A.R., post-10 shutdown activities -- post-shutdown decommissioning 11 activities report, was submitted to the NRC by 12 NorthStar. It is contingent on the sale and license 13 transfer.

14 One of the key features of this P.S.D.A.R.

15 is that NorthStar plans to complete the 16 decommissioning by as early as 2016. We will review 17 the -- excuse me -- 2026. Excuse me. And we will 18 review the P.S.D.A.R. with the same rigor that we 19 reviewed the -- the Entergy P.S.D.A.R. that was 20 submitted in 2014. And two of the -- one of the 21 guidance documents that you may be familiar with is 22 Reg Guide 1.185. It's available on our public 23 website.

24 And of course, we've issued the Federal 25 Register notice and we will accept -- be accepting NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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43 1 comments on both the license transfer and the 2 P.S.D.A.R. And this will end on June 23rd, 2017.

3 And with that, I'll turn it over to Jack 4 Parrott to talk about the license transfer process.

5 MR. PARROTT: Okay. If we could go to the 6 next slide, please.

7 So reactor decommissioning license 8 transfers, they are a relatively common occurrence.

9 The license for Vermont Yankee, which previously 10 transferred to Entergy in 2002. NRC has regulations 11 in place to ensure that reactor licenses are 12 transferred to a technically and financially viable 13 company. Transfers of licenses to facilitate the 14 decommissioning of reactors have occurred twice before 15 for the Zion and La Crosse plants.

16 Next slide, please.

17 Our review process, the application for 18 license transfer was submitted in February -- on 19 February 9th, 2017. The license transfer documents 20 are available on our public website on the U.R.L. on 21 the slide there. Acceptance review was documented --

22 our acceptance review of the -- of the license 23 application was documented by letter dated April 6th, 24 2017.

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44 1 the technical and financial re -- review topics are 2 covered. But nevertheless, there still could be a 3 request for additional information from our subsequent 4 review.

5 The notice of consideration was published 6 in the Federal Register yesterday. It includes an 7 opportunity for hearing and an opportunity for public 8 comment. The opportunity for hearing and intervention 9 is open to any person whose interest may be affected 10 by NRC action on this application. The opportunity 11 remains open twenty days after the notice of 12 consideration that was published yesterday.

13 The -- the opportunity for public comment 14 is a thirty-day period where written comments can be 15 submitted for consideration by the staff during the 16 review -- our review process.

17 As Andrea mentioned, our technical and 18 financial review is underway. If found acceptable, a 19 safety evaluation report, an order, and a license 20 amendment will be issued by the NRC.

21 Next -- next slide, please.

22 The -- the two things that we review, 23 primary areas are the technical qualifications and 24 financial qualifications. The technical qualification 25 review areas focus on the management, the technical NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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45 1 support, and onsite organization to ensure that they 2 are involved in, informed of, and dedicated to the 3 safe operation of the plant, and to determine if 4 sufficient qualified technical resources will be 5 provided for safe operations.

6 All requirements -- this is an important 7 point. All of the requirements of the current plant 8 operator and owner at the time of transfer, should --

9 should the transfer be approved, will be -- will 10 transfer to the new -- the new company, NorthStar.

11 Implementation of those requirements is the key and 12 will be under the continued oversight of NRC.

13 At this point, I'd like to turn over to 14 Mike Dusaniwskyj to talk about the financial 15 qualification review.

16 MR. DUSANIWSKYJ: Good evening. The 17 financial qualification review in this particular 18 license transfer is going to be focusing on 19 decommissioning funding assurance, foreign ownership 20 control or domination, and the price and its indemnity 21 and nuclear insurance. In this regard, staff will 22 seek reasonable assurance that the licensee maintains 23 adequate funding to complete decommissioning to NRC 24 standards and terminate the license and adequate 25 financial protection remains available on-site and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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46 1 off-site commensurate with the risk of the 2 decommissioning plant.

3 Next slide.

4 The NRC maintains a comprehensive 5 regulatory -- regulation-based framework to provide 6 assurance that the new licensee for a license transfer 7 maintains the financial means to safely decommission 8 the facility and terminate the license. This 9 framework includes consideration for spent fuel 10 management and ISFSI decommissioning. ISFSI stands 11 for independent state -- I'm sorry; I've forgotten 12 again.

13 MR. PARROTT: Independent Spent Fuel 14 Storage Installation.

15 MR. DUSANIWSKYJ: Thank you.

16 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Also known as the dry 17 cask storage pad for us civilians.

18 MR. DUSANIWSKYJ: Yes.

19 Through our operations, licensees are 20 required to certify that adequate funding for 21 decommissioning will be available when needed. For a 22 plant that is transitioned to decommissioning, the 23 same requirements apply and licensees provide evidence 24 of adequate -- adequate funding through annual reports 25 submitted to the NRC. These reports separately NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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47 1 provide transparency in the license -- in the 2 license's use of decommissioning trust funds, the 3 estimated costs for -- to complete decommissioning and 4 management of spent fuel, available funding to cover 5 these costs and any material changes to the trust 6 agreements or other allowable funding mechanisms. For 7 a license transfer, these responsibilities are 8 incumbent on the new licensee.

9 Next slide, please.

10 And as -- as a summary of this, the NRC 11 regulations require licensees to maintain adequate 12 financial assurance for decommissioning at all times.

13 Oversight of financial assurance continues until a 14 license is terminated. Licensees submit a financial 15 assurance status reports annually. The report 16 includes amounts spent on decommissioning remaining 17 for trust fund balance and estimated cost to complete 18 decommissioning. The report is reviewed for a 19 reasonable assurance of the adequacy of 20 decommissioning funding.

21 And with that, I'll hand it over now to 22 Bruce.

23 MR. WATSON: Thank you, Mike.

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48 1 program. And I want to be clear that our inspection 2 program continues to ensure the safe decommissioning 3 of the site until the license is terminated. We have 4 a dedicated inspection manual chapter for power 5 reactor decommissioning. It's available on our 6 website. It's I.M.C., or Inspection Manual Chapter, 7 2561. It contains core inspection procedures that 8 have to be done every year and a variety of 9 discretionary inspection procedures which are done 10 commensurate with the work that is being performed.

11 Our inspection frequency and the amount of 12 time we spend in the inspection process will be 13 commensurate with the amount of activities on-site.

14 So we will be coordinating closely with the licensee 15 performing the decommissioning activities. So they'll 16 see us a lot when there's a lot of activities going 17 on. And they won't -- won't see us as often if 18 there's no activities or very little activities going 19 on.

20 We are required to conduct the inspection 21 -- inspection procedures annually. And these 22 inspection -- our inspection reports are publicly 23 available unless they can turn -- contain information 24 that's specific to security or safeguards.

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49 1 discussion. I want to thank you for your -- for 2 listening. And we look forward to your comments.

3 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great; thank you very 4 much.

5 What we're going to do now is take a very 6 short period of time to have the Panel ask questions 7 and comments. And I'm going to tell everybody right 8 now not everyone is going to get to ask a question or 9 make a comment. And what I would ask is, because our 10 time is so limited, that we keep them to, you know, 11 one or two minutes because we want to have enough time 12 for anyone and everyone in the public who wants to 13 make a comment or ask a question to do so.

14 And I'm going to -- because I have the 15 mic, I'm going to ask the first question, which I know 16 is one that has come up with the public and members of 17 the Panel. And it's a question, I think, for the NRC, 18 NorthStar, and Entergy, if you all would like to 19 answer it.

20 As the NRC just outlined, one of the main 21 points that you're going to look at is the financial 22 assurance that NorthStar gives you that they -- that 23 they can complete the decommissioning within the 24 amount of money they say they are. And one of the big 25 questions that has come up is if the decommissioning NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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50 1 is not completed and the money and the nuclear 2 decommissioning trust fund runs out, who is 3 responsible for paying for the -- the shortfall?

4 And one of the issues, I think, that comes 5 up around this is, since Vermont Yankee is a merchant 6 plant, which means it's not getting any money from 7 ratepayers, there's no ratepayers to go back to -- to 8 get the money. So I guess our question really is who 9 -- and we -- we know we've heard that there won't run 10 out of money, but there's concern here that there will 11 -- there could be a shortfall of funds.

12 So we'd like to know who picks -- who's on 13 the hook for the money?

14 MS. KOCK: I keep forgetting to turn that 15 on. I can start out and then turn it over to some of 16 our experts. And then, I think, Kate, as you pointed 17 out, I think NorthStar would have a piece of this, 18 too. So Scott will probably want to jump in there.

19 But as far as the NRC is concerned --.

20 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Hey, Andrea. I'm sorry; 21 can I -- everyone has to speak up a little because of 22 the rain.

23 MS. KOCK: It's raining. Okay. I'll 24 speak up.

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51 1 then turn it over to some of our experts. And I think 2 part of this can be answered by North -- NorthStar, as 3 well.

4 From the NRC's perspective, the 5 responsibility for funding is with the licensee. It's 6 very clear and very straightforward. So for all 7 regulatory activities, we look to the licensee they 8 are responsible. So if the license is transferred to 9 NorthStar, they're responsible for the funding. And 10 if there's a shortage, they're responsible for making 11 up that shortage.

12 Our regulations require that they have 13 decommissioning financial assurance at all times. As 14 Mike laid out, we look at the transfer application 15 from the beginning to make sure there's adequate 16 funds. But going forward, our regulations simply 17 state that you have to have adequate funding at all 18 times. And if there is a gap or shortage, they're 19 required to make that up. And the responsibility for 20 that would be NorthStar.

21 As far as how they would make that up. I 22 think that's the piece that NorthStar could help you 23 understand what provisions or where they would look or 24 their contingency plan is for that. We simply set the 25 regulation to say they have to make that funding up.

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52 1 I'll just add a few more points and then 2 turn it over to others to add on. As far as, you 3 know, what assurances do we have for decommissioning 4 financial assurance -- and I think we've touched on a 5 lot of these already. As Mike mentioned, we have 6 ongoing oversight through decommissioning. So 7 annually, we look at how much is left in the fund, 8 what's their estimate for how much it's going to cost 9 to complete the decommissioning, and then we look to 10 see if there's any gap. So it's not as if we look at 11 it once when the application -- when the transfer 12 occurs and then not again.

13 We also do a thorough review at the 14 beginning, as we mentioned, and then we do our annual 15 reviews. The only other thing that I would add is --

16 I think Bruce mentioned this well. We have had ten 17 power reactors go into decommissioning and have their 18 licenses terminated. In all cases, that's been done 19 safely and funding has been made available. Either 20 the fund was adequate from the beginning or if there 21 were shortages during the decommissioning period, 22 those funding shortages were made up.

23 And again, how -- how those can be made 24 up, there's a variety of ways. I'll turn it over to 25 NorthStar to answer how they would look at that. But NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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53 1 people could have contingency funds. They could have 2 parent company guarantees. There's a variety of ways 3 in which those funds could be made up. We don't 4 dictate how it be done, just that it would be done.

5 MR. STATE: I guess, I'll just add a few 6 comments about how NorthStar looks at this. So the --

7 you know, the front line of defense for us is we know 8 how much money is in the trust fund today. We can see 9 it. We can call the bank and they can tell us. And 10 at inception of this project, the way we've 11 established our -- our work and the way we pay 12 ourselves, we are limited to the amount of money we 13 take out of the trust account by performance of the 14 work.

15 So in our breakdown of this project, we've 16 got a little over nine hundred work elements. And if 17 we execute all nine hundreds of those work elements, 18 the site will be clean and it will be released for 19 unrestricted use.

20 So when we broke it down into those work 21 elements, we assigned a cost to each of them. We 22 added all that cost up and that cost had to be less 23 than or equal to the amount of money we had to work 24 with to do the decommissioning. So our first line of 25 defense is we simply don't take money out of the trust NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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54 1 fund unless we've actually executed the work that that 2 money is tied to.

3 And with that, you know, assurance that we 4 don't ever -- it's a performance-based assurance that 5 we don't ever take more money than work actually 6 performed, if you -- you know, if you track it all the 7 way through and we take out exactly the amount we say 8 we will for each of the work elements, and the work 9 element gets done, then we'll complete this project 10 within the amount of funding that we have. And the 11 certainty of us executing each of these work elements 12 for that cost is that we will provide a form of surety 13 or guarantee for performance of each of those work 14 elements as we do them.

15 So you know, that's what we view as the 16 most important way to do a project like this. And 17 it's, frankly, the way we do every project the company 18 conducts, nationwide, every day. We work as a fixed 19 price contractor, doing work like this all the time.

20 And we worked to budgets on individual work elements.

21 Now, in the event that -- that somehow 22 there's a bust, and that doesn't work out, we've also 23 committed one-hundred-twenty-five-million-dollar 24 performance assurance above and beyond the amount of 25 money that's in the trust fund. And that will be a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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55 1 guarantee by the company.

2 As we conduct this work, we actually will 3 be taking a percentage of all the funds that we remove 4 from the trust account and putting them into an 5 escrow. And that's a cash first line of defense to 6 support the -- the -- any needed cash obligations that 7 might be above and beyond the nuclear decommissioning 8 trust. So you know, it's kind of a two-step process.

9 It's a process of limiting cost and then a process of 10 making additional financial capability available above 11 and beyond the funds that we know are present today.

12 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

13 Bill?

14 MR. JORDAN: Yes; thank you. This is, 15 likewise, likely to be answered by the Panel, NRC, 16 Entergy, and NorthStar, and really dovetails to Kate's 17 question and also to my sincere pleasure to hear that 18 the site could be available to this community for 19 other uses much sooner than originally planned. And 20 I hope that that does come to pass.

21 An -- an obstacle to that, in my mind, is 22 represented at the Connecticut Yankee facility, Yankee 23 Rowe facility, and the Maine Yankee facility where 24 there are many more acres of land, and yet, the ISFSI 25 remains and no development has occurred on any of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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56 1 those three plots of land.

2 So my question is does the NRC have any 3 practical limitations with a site of about one hundred 4 twenty to a hundred thirty acres, some of which is 5 going to be taken up by the electric infrastructure of 6 the switch yard and also by the ISFSI, of having 7 another -- some other development on the remaining 8 plot of land that was released for unrestricted use.

9 And two, does NorthStar feel confident 10 that, unlike the other owners of plants around New 11 England, they will be able to find a means by which 12 that land can be put back to productive use?

13 MR. WATSON: Yeah, this is Bruce Watson.

14 I -- I think that the plants that have been 15 decommissioned -- as I said, that they all have been 16 decommissioned for unrestricted use. So it's really 17 up to the owner what they want to do. About a third 18 of them had additional generation facilities placed on 19 them, built on them, and -- and back into generating 20 power because they do have the grid infrastructure 21 there, they do have a source of cooling water, and 22 they previously had an environmental impact statement 23 for an operating nuclear power plant. So about one-24 third add generating capacity to the site.

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57 1 with the site, which would include Connecticut Yankee 2 and a few others. At Maine Yankee, they've chosen to 3 make part of the land a park. I think they donated 4 part of the land to a nonprofit organization, I think 5 dedicated to naturalization of the -- of the land. So 6 it's an -- it's a mixed bag on what happens with the 7 property once the license is terminated.

8 Granted, the dry storage facility is 9 there. It is still under a license. We have strict 10 requirements for that security of that facility. So 11 yes, some of the land is taken up for that particular 12 purpose. But from the NRC's view is that the 13 remaining lands that are not required to be under the 14 license are available for any -- any -- any 15 development or unrestricted use that the owner would 16 have for that.

17 So I hope I answered that part of the 18 question.

19 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yes? Wait one second 20 because we're going to let somebody --.

21 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Counting our 22 chickens here --?

23 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Well, wait one second.

24 We got to -- we've got to get the full answer here.

25 MR. STATE: So you know, the owners of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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58 1 three facilities you mentioned, I've been -- I haven't 2 been to Connecticut Yankee site. I've been to Yankee 3 Rowe. I've been to Maine Yankee. You know, those are 4 somewhat remote locations, somewhat remote sites.

5 And, you know, the ownership structure there is you 6 still have utility owners or cooperatives, in essence, 7 multiple parties that own those sites. And I think, 8 as a result, you know, they're people that operate or 9 -- or there are cooperatives that were formed to 10 operate these plants. I'm not sure that any one of 11 those individual utilities has any specific desire to 12 do anything with those sites.

13 We're commercially a very different setup.

14 You know, we are not interested in being the long-term 15 owner and developer of the site after it's clean.

16 What we're interested in doing is working with the 17 local community to find the highest and best use of 18 the property.

19 We've heard suggestions of, you know, 20 potentially looking at a micro-grid. That could be a 21 great idea. We've suggested a solar facility might be 22 an option there. But we're not wedded to any specific 23 future use, but we are wedded to finding a future use.

24 And -- and we will be, I would say, very easy to work 25 with in terms of positioning the property for its best NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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59 1 potential.

2 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you.

3 Does anyone on this side --?

4 SENATOR MACDONALD: I'm surprised we would 5 be using this time to discuss what to do with a site 6 that may or may not be cleaned up. And that is 7 premature. I've been doing this job long enough to 8 have been to this point, several times, with the NRC.

9 And on the original sale of Vermont Yankee to Entergy, 10 we were given assurances by the NRC that the 11 decommissioning fund was adequate, that the new 12 operation would provide benefits to the state of 13 Vermont, there would be additional revenues to put 14 into the cleanup.

15 And what happened was, at Vermont, the 16 owners shipped all the profits out of state and left 17 the decommissioning fund inadequate enough so that 18 tonight we're here discussing how to clean the place 19 up.

20 The second time we arrived at this point 21 was when the owners of the plant came in and asked to 22 do an up-rate. And your advisory Panel that preceded 23 this one recommended in a vote not to do the up-rate 24 because the decommissioning fund was inadequate 25 because the NRC assured us that there would be a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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60 1 depository for nuclear waste available if we did an --

2 an up-rate. And your Nuclear Advisory Panel said that 3 that would not happen.

4 And the NRC gave us assurances that there 5 would be a place to send the waste, and despite the 6 recommendation that the assurances were not worth --

7 the assurances failed to materialize, no additional 8 funds were required from the owners to be put into 9 decommissioning to cover the additional waste. That 10 was the second time we were here.

11 The third time, Madam Chair, we arrived at 12 this position was when the owners asked for a license 13 extension. And the owners had made a commitment to 14 the State of Vermont to the Legislature, a handshake 15 and a widely understood agreement that the owners 16 would not ask to extend the license without the 17 permission of the State and the Legislature. And when 18 the owners didn't get permission, the owners went to 19 court to undo the bargain that they had offered.

20 And each time, the owners had slide shows 21 like the one we had tonight, had pictures in the back 22 of the room, and touted their expertise, their 23 professionalism, their ability to deliver on promises.

24 And the Chair has asked what happens if a 25 company like NorthStar, a relatively new company with NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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61 1 no deep pockets, sold the plant and fails to complete 2 the cleanup, who is left holding the bag. And, Madam 3 Chair, the reason I asked that question was when an 4 up-rate was being discussed and your VSNAP panel said 5 don't do the up-rate unless the NRC can tell us what 6 will happen and who will pay and who will be left 7 holding the bag if there is no National Nuclear 8 Depository.

9 And those that make these decisions were 10 persuaded to accept the assurance of the NRC and to 11 trust the owners that things would turn out all right.

12 And we are here today because of -- this 13 is about the fourth time that I have served where 14 we're given a slideshow, promises, guarantees that 15 these people are more clever, better accountants, and 16 more responsible than their predecessors. And they're 17 asking us to sign off on a recommendation.

18 But if this doesn't work, the answer is 19 the NRC doesn't have a rule for who will be 20 responsible. The rule is the people who would be 21 responsible are the people that have no money. Madam 22 Chair, I say that because when -- when, in the past, 23 the NRC told us that there will be a nuclear 24 depository available for the waste by a certain year, 25 and we said we don't believe you, and they said that's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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62 1 our rule, there must be, you're not going to get left 2 holding the bag. And when it became clear that there 3 was no nuclear depository available, they, the NRC, 4 changed its rule.

5 CHAIR O'CONNOR: I don't want to cut you 6 off, but --.

7 SENATOR MACDONALD: You would like to talk 8 about what we're going to do with this plant after 9 it's been cleaned up?

10 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yeah.

11 SENATOR MACDONALD: Instead of what is the 12 guarantee that we're going to be -- this is going to 13 be cleaned up and that the NRC, who writes the rules 14 we have to obey, writes a rule for this other than 15 that the people that have no money are responsible.

16 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

17 I mean I -- I don't know if there's --

18 you've -- you answered the question when I asked about 19 who's on the hook. I don't know if you want to add 20 anything?

21 MS. KOCK: No, I didn't want to add 22 anything. I just wanted to clarify one thing 23 unrelated to the funding issue, which is that the NRC 24 doesn't -- does not set the policy for when and where 25 there will be a national depository. We're NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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63 1 responsible for reviewing any application we might get 2 for a repository, making sure that it's safe, and 3 issuing a license if we think it's appropriate. But 4 we do not set the national policy on whether there 5 will be a repository, where it will be, or when it 6 will be. That is not something that's within our 7 control or authority. So I just wanted to make that 8 one clarification, but nothing else to add. Thank 9 you.

10 SENATOR MACDONALD: That's --.

11 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

12 SENATOR MACDONALD: That's true, Madam 13 Chair. But they assured us, while they don't set the 14 policy, that someone else did -- they assured us that 15 there would be a depository there. They gave us 16 their assurance. They don't make the policy, but they 17 gave us the assurance. And when it failed, they made 18 up a new set of rules to allow a hundred years for --

19 for getting rid of the waste.

20 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

21 Chris?

22 MR. CAMPANY: Chris Campany, Windham 23 Regional Commission. The Town of Vernon asked the 24 Windham Regional -- or had initial planning grant to 25 have the Windham Regional Commission prepare a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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64 1 resilience plan for what would happen when the plant 2 would eventually close. And this was back in 2012.

3 And I just want to see if you can add any 4 clarity of as far as when the site might be released 5 with the presence of the ISFSI there? On June 12th, 6 2012, I had a phone conversation with Ronald Bellamy, 7 Chief Reactor Project Branch of NRC, Region One. And 8 he said that as long as the ISFSI was there after 9 decommissioning, that it would be unlikely the site 10 would be able to be released for reuse. So that was 11 from -- I think -- I think he's retired now and he 12 can't be here to explain his logic.

13 But I just wondered what you might want to 14 add or what your position would -- might be now?

15 MR. WATSON: I can't comment on what the 16 conversation was with Mr. Bellamy, back then. But any 17 land that is taken off the license, with the exception 18 of the license property, which is the dry storage 19 facility, it will be -- I guess, should say is planned 20 to be released for unrestricted use, which means it 21 can be used for anything that the owner or the town or 22 whatever choose to do, whoever controls the property 23 rights to that piece of land.

24 Yes, the ISFSI will be there until the 25 Department of Energy removes the fuel. At that time, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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65 1 when the fuel's removed, the -- the actual facility 2 will be decommissioned. And then the entire piece of 3 property will be available for, I would believe at 4 that point, unrestricted use and for development for 5 whatever purpose the owners would have.

6 So, you know, I can't comment on the basis 7 of the conversation you had with him. But like I 8 said, at other facilities, the -- the remaining pieces 9 of land have been -- have been -- added generating 10 plants and -- and used for other purposes. And some 11 have chose not to use the property at all for -- just 12 letting it sit for right now so.

13 MR. CAMPANY: So I just -- so, Kate, can 14 I ask just a follow-up? So -- so, I guess what I'm --

15 so what's the -- like the security perimeter likely to 16 be around the ISFSI? I mean, how much of the site 17 would likely be available?

18 I'm asking you because -- one of the 19 reasons, when we went to Connecticut Yankee, one of 20 the reasons why they moved the spent fuel so far away 21 from the site was to facilitate redevelopment of that 22 site. And they did that at a considerable expense to 23 move that away. I thought that was -- and I thought 24 at Maine Yankee that was part of the reason, too, for 25 removing the spent fuel pretty far away, so they could NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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66 1 really -- and of course, those are much larger sites 2 and then V.Y. So what would you anticipate like this, 3 the perimeter might be around the ISFSI?

4 MR. WATSON: I really can't really answer 5 that because I -- we don't normally look into ISFSIs 6 too much. But I'm sure that there's a certain amount 7 of land that's required for the security plan around 8 it to be under the owner control to make sure that the 9 people who are providing security and for the facility 10 have adequate time to respond to any threats.

11 I can tell you that the facility at 12 Connecticut Yankee, the dry storage facility was 13 purposely moved up on the hill because the original 14 location had it down in a valley. And they thought 15 that was a -- not a wise decision for the actual 16 security of the facility, and that the better place 17 would be up on the hill so that it was on high land 18 for -- for security reasons.

19 So I hope that answers your question to 20 the best I can -- can do today.

21 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. We'd have one more 22 Panel question. We'll let Jim Matteau.

23 MR. MATTEAU: Thank you.

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67 1 together. The first one for NorthStar.

2 Not -- not knowing the details of the 3 commitment, I understand the -- the price per 4 component and everything, and that's -- that's 5 encouraging. I'm really optimistic about that. But 6 is there anywhere in there, if you encounter something 7 significant that you could make a clear case was 8 reasonably not foreseeable, is there any way for you 9 to go back and seek an increase allotment for that 10 component, which it seems to me would, in turn, 11 jeopardize -- could jeopardize the balance of the 12 trust fund?

13 And the second question for the NRC is, if 14 something like that were to happen or, for whatever 15 reason, it got to the point that there wasn't enough 16 money to complete the decom, would it be possible for 17 the owner to apply to go back -- excuse me -- to go 18 back into SAFSTOR? That's a one-word answer.

19 MR. STATE: So the -- the -- the first 20 issue you raised is if -- if -- I think you're saying 21 if we find an unknown source of contamination or 22 something. If -- if we simply execute poorly, we have 23 no recourse to anyone for anything. If, in fact, 24 during a certain specified period of time, we find 25 contamination that was undisclosed as part of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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68 1 transaction, we've got a level of indemnification from 2 the seller. That doesn't go on forever. That goes on 3 for a certain period of time.

4 So, you know, it behooves us early on in 5 this process to make sure we've got the best 6 characterization we can and determine if there's any 7 unknown contamination that -- that was not disclosed 8 to us.

9 If, in fact, we go through the process and 10 we find unknown contamination after a certain date, 11 it's our obligation to remove that. And we have to 12 remove that to, you know, achieve what the objective 13 here, which is unrestricted use of the site.

14 So, you know, we've done a lot of 15 facilities like this and we've got a pretty good idea 16 if there should be or would be certain types of 17 contamination. These are not hard things to find. We 18 know what the site was used for. We know, generally, 19 you know, what kinds of things were at the site.

20 I can tell you that large sites that had 21 large motor pools, a lot of times, are really bad 22 sites because, you know, back in the day you just 23 threw out the back door and now it's all over in the 24 groundwater.

25 We know there's been certain events at the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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69 1 site. We think those are pretty well documented. And 2 we will certainly do a high level of investigation 3 upon ownership to confirm all of that -- all of the 4 facts that -- that we've got. But, you know, 5 generally, we feel like there aren't any of those 6 really big gotchas out there. But if there are, we do 7 have a certain ability to protect ourselves, you know, 8 day one, for those types of things.

9 MR. SACHS: Uh --.

10 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Hey, Gary, we're trying 11 to do our meeting, so let the NRC -- there will be 12 public comment in a minute.

13 MR. SACHS: (Off mic) Can I --

14 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yes -- yes, please do.

15 Okay. Please go on, Bruce.

16 MR. WATSON: Obviously, the NRC's view of 17 the decommissioning is that the decommissioning has to 18 be completed in sixty years. So given the fact that 19 this is the business model that NorthStar is taking, 20 they're using to -- to actually take the sale of the 21 property, it's their risk they're taking in doing 22 their review of the site to ensure that they can meet 23 the commitments that they're telling us in the -- in 24 the documents in the -- in the financial information.

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70 1 transfers, we would have expected them to do their due 2 diligence to protect themselves, review the site 3 history, look at the characterization to ensure that 4 they -- they have a good assurance that they can clean 5 up the site within the funds.

6 Back in 2012, we strengthened our 7 decommissioning regulations. We actually call it the 8 Decommissioning Planning Rule. And it required that 9 the sites do additional groundwater monitoring close 10 to sites which could produce contamination into the 11 environment so it would be discovered early. I think 12 that enhanced the ability to prevent a lot of 13 underground soil contamination, which has been found 14 at a few of the sites that were previously 15 decommissioned.

16 So these -- these regulations enable the 17 owner or the operator at the time, the licensee, to 18 find contamination and make a determination whether 19 they need to clean it up now or later.

20 So the answer is yes, they could go into 21 a SAFSTOR situation, do -- for -- for whatever reason 22 they choose to. But as I think that's their choice.

23 But in this particular case, they're telling us 24 they're planning to the clean the site up from a 25 radiological standpoint by 2026.

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71 1 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. We have one quick 2 follow-up. Then we have to move on.

3 MR. WALKE: Mr. State, I just want to 4 follow-up quickly on the point about you're going to 5 do your due diligence post-transfer. We've talked 6 about phase one complete before transfer of the 7 environments non-radiological environmental review.

8 As the state agency is responsible for the non-9 radiological piece, it -- it seems to me that the --

10 the that I have about the risk associated with the 11 transfer is related to why wouldn't we want to do that 12 diligence up front and know that information from the 13 phase two prior to transfer, so you know what the 14 gotchas are and we have come -- more comfort into the 15 financial resources?

16 MR. WATSON: I'd like to add one more 17 piece to -- to my previous comment, in that the NRC 18 regulations require that any incident or -- I'll call 19 it event that would result in information that would 20 be important -- in particular, radiological 21 information that would be important to the 22 decommissioning of the future of the site be recorded.

23 24 And so we do have a requirement that if 25 they had a spill or -- or a contamination that that'd NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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72 1 be well-documented in the record for the site history.

2 And so that's one area that could be looked at from a 3 radiological standpoint.

4 MR. TWOMEY: At -- at one level, there 5 have been numerous evaluations of the conditions on 6 that site. Certainly, the prior owners before Entergy 7 had an obligation to maintain their compliance with 8 all the NRC --

9 MR. SACHS: (Off mic) 10 MR. TWOMEY: -- all of the requirements 11 that they had to comply with for the NRC When we --

12 when Entergy bought the facility in 2002, we did a 13 comprehensive due diligence prior to that sale. And 14 then --

15 MR. SACHS: (Off mic) 16 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Hey, Gary.

17 MR. TWOMEY: -- we also did --

18 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Gary.

19 MR. TWOMEY: -- we also did a --

20 MR. SACHS: Could you speak up?

21 MR. TWOMEY: -- site assessment study in 22 2014.

23 MR. SACHS: Is there a reason you won't 24 speak up?

25 MR. TWOMEY: Is there a reason --

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73 1 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Could everybody --?

2 MR. TWOMEY: -- you're interrupting me?

3 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yeah, please don't 4 interrupt.

5 MR. SACHS: I can't hear you. There's 6 nothing to interrupt.

7 UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE SPEAKER: (Off mic) 8 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Well, we're going to let 9 him finish the question, so we can move on.

10 MR. SACHS: (Off mic) 11 MR. TWOMEY: We did a comprehensive site 12 assessment study in 2014. And then NorthStar's been 13 doing their own due diligence as we've been working on 14 this transaction.

15 And I'll let Scott speak to the level of 16 due diligence they've done.

17 MR. STATE: It -- it -- I don't want you 18 to misinterpret what I said before. It's not as if we 19 haven't done any due diligence or -- or done any level 20 of evaluation. I was speaking merely to, you know, 21 post-closing and opening of structures and doing a 22 very invasive testing that you wouldn't do prior to 23 closing of a transaction to, you know, get absolute 24 confirmation of what we believe to be true today.

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74 1 past -- past practices and past evaluations and data 2 that's been generated from prior work on the site.

3 And you know, we will continue to do that kind of 4 work. We've continued to do due diligence. We are 5 initiating certain work activities, the second half of 6 this year and all next year, running up to the closing 7 of the transaction.

8 So we're not just sitting idly, hoping 9 there's nothing there. We are doing, you know, a 10 substantial amount of work to verify the condition of 11 the site at closing.

12 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

13 I think what we're going to do right now 14 is take a five-minute break. So at seven forty-five, 15 we're going to take public comment and questions. And 16 if you want to make a comment or ask a question, there 17 are signup sheets right over there. So in -- we'll 18 take five minutes.

19 (Off the record) 20 (The meeting resumed.)

21 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. Now, what we're 22 going to do is take comments or questions from the 23 public. And I just want to remind everybody that the 24 NRC is here because it's the official public comment 25 period on the license transfer application that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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75 1 Entergy and NorthStar has filed. And that, of course, 2 is about the sale.

3 What I'm going to ask is when you come up, 4 if you could state your name and what town or state 5 and/or state you are from. It is being recorded by 6 the NRC. And as Andrea said earlier, you don't -- if 7 you speak tonight, you do not have to send written 8 comments to the NRC. But if you choose not to speak 9 tonight, there is a mechanism that you can go online 10 on the NRC website and either email a comment in or 11 you can do a written comment. And those comments are 12 due by June 23rd.

13 I also want to remind everyone that while 14 you may pose a question to the NRC, again I think 15 Andrea stressed this, is that they are still in the 16 process of reviewing the license transfer application.

17 So they may not have an answer for you because they 18 haven't finished the review.

19 I would also ask that if people can keep 20 their comments down to two or three minutes, we'd 21 appreciate it so we can move the meeting along. And 22 again, I want to remind everyone that this is a 23 meeting of the Nuclear Decommissioning Citizens 24 Advisory Panel. And we run by Robert's Rules of Order 25 and our charter and I just ask everyone to respect NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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76 1 that you are at a Panel meeting and respect all your 2 fellow commenters or people that are here this 3 evening.

4 And I'm going to call people's names in no 5 particular order, so I don't want anyone to think you 6 -- I'm playing favorites in any way. And what I'll do 7 is I'll, maybe, call two names at a time so the next 8 person knows that it's their -- their shot.

9 The first up is going to be Skyler Gould.

10 And then second is Brad Ferlin. And again, if you can 11 say your name and your town and state, so we have it 12 in the record. Yes?

13 MR. GOULD: All right. Thank you very 14 much.

15 CHAIR O'CONNOR: You may have to talk 16 louder than usual because of the rain on the --.

17 MR. GOULD: I'm Skyler Gould of 18 Brattleboro -- I'm Skyler Gould. I live in 19 Brattleboro these days. Thanks very much for allowing 20 us to come here tonight.

21 I have a couple of quick questions. Has 22 the NRC approved the new Holtec dry cask design which 23 would allow the earlier unloading of fuel beyond --

24 shorter than the usual five-year cooling off period?

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77 1 -- I think what I want to do is have you ask all the 2 questions?

3 MR. GOULD: Okay.

4 CHAIR O'CONNOR: So you could ask all your 5 questions and then they can answer all at the same 6 time.

7 MR. GOULD: And another is -- is there 8 some reason the comment period has been reduced from 9 the normal sixty days to thirty days? Twenty or 10 thirty days, I'm not sure. I think I heard thirty 11 this evening.

12 A more difficult question. On March 29th, 13 just this year, a judge in the Court of Chancery, of 14 the state of Delaware -- I have the opinion -- found 15 that one of the two members of the NorthStar Group 16 Holdings, of which Scott State is the current C.E.O.

17 -- current corporate members, I'm quoting here, has 18 adequately alleged facts that, if true, demonstrate 19 fraudulent representation, unquote.

20 This is a charge by the other member of 21 NorthStar Group Holdings. So basically there are two 22 members of NorthStar Group Holdings. One is accusing 23 the other of fraud. Excuse me. NorthStar 24 Decommissioning Holdings, the limited liability 25 corporation incorporated -- incorporated last November NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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78 1 which is seeking to purchase Vermont Yankee from 2 Entergy is owned by NorthStar Group Services, which is 3 owned by L.V.I. parent corporation. which is owned by 4 NorthStar Group Holdings. which is at the heart of 5 this fraud case, they're seeking over two hundred and 6 thirteen million dollars in damages.

7 Essentially, Scott State and his -- his 8 member of the NorthStar Group Holdings are accused of 9 misrepresenting their corporate members' assets and 10 liabilities to the tune of two hundred and thirteen 11 million dollars. So my question to the NRC is do the 12 facts of this case --?

13 MR. SACHS: Did you know this?

14 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Gary --.

15 MR. GOULD: Gary, please, give me a break.

16 Do the facts of this case concern the 17 Commission and will the Commission fully consider this 18 above-mentioned suit and what it may say about the 19 integrity of the terms of the proposed sale?

20 And secondly, is the Commission confident 21 that should the plaintiff in the above case prevail, 22 which the judge in the case has concluded is enough of 23 a possibility to allow the case to go forward, will 24 the structural integrity of the NorthStar Enterprise 25 -- the larger NorthStar Enterprise allow the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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79 1 decommissioning of -- of Vermont Yankee to be 2 completed according to regulatory requirements? Thank 3 you.

4 MR. WATSON: Yes, I'll try and answer the 5 questions in order. First of all, the Holtec change, 6 I think that's still under technical review.

7 MR. GOULD: So is it conceivable, if 8 that's not approved, that that will delay --?

9 MR. WATSON: Well, it isn't approved yet, 10 nor is it denied. So it's still under review. Okay?

11 The requirement for a public period for a 12 license transfer is thirty days in the regulations.

13 So that's what's -- that what's published in the 14 Federal Registry so.

15 MR. GOULD: Excuse me. I understand. It 16 was never sixty days?

17 MR. WATSON: No; it's thirty days.

18 MR. GOULD: Excuse me. I see.

19 MR. WATSON: And in response to the -- I 20 guess, the lawsuit you're -- yeah, we have no real 21 comment on it. That is not part of our review. The 22 only comment I would have as a person that is an 23 accusation of -- of wrongdoing is not -- not an 24 assessment of guilt until the court decides it. So 25 it's not part of our review at all.

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80 1 MR. GOULD: Thank you.

2 CHAIR O'CONNOR: And I do want to say one 3 thing that we as a -- we as a Panel can request an 4 extension on public comment period if we needed to 5 because we've done that in the past. So that is an 6 option.

7 MR. FERLIN: Yeah. Good evening. My name 8 is Brad Ferlin. I live in Fairfax, Vermont, born in 9 Burlington, Vermont. I serve as President of the 10 Vermont Energy Partnership. I want to thank Kate for 11 hosting this meeting, and NDCAP. We appreciate that.

12 And we welcome the NRC.

13 We've testified before you a number of 14 times over the years and welcome you back to Vermont.

15 The Vermont Energy Partnership was formed 16 in 2005, largely through the foresight of Governor 17 Thomas Salmon. We're comprised of a diverse group of 18 business, labor, and community leaders. And over the 19 years, the Vermont Energy Partnership was a strong 20 advocate for Vermont Yankee as an economic engine, a 21 job provider for not only Windham County, but for the 22 State of Vermont, supplying low cost power. And we 23 were in support of that.

24 One of the things we heard over the years 25 in debate was if Vermont Yankee closed, that an NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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81 1 accelerated decommissioning would be desired. And lo 2 and behold, with NorthStar here, this -- this promise 3 or this desire can actually be met. So -- and to make 4 the site available for future economic uses. So we 5 view this new opportunity of having Vermont Yankee 6 acquired by NorthStar and have them put in place this 7 accelerated and safe decommissioning process as great 8 news for Vermont.

9 We've had the opportunity to meet with 10 NorthStar officials on a number of occasions and hear 11 explanations of how they plan to operate in Vermont 12 and decommission Vermont Yankee. We appreciate the 13 fact that it's going to provide, in segments, jobs and 14 economic stimulus for -- for the region and for the 15 state.

16 And so for the NRC we hope that NorthStar 17 is properly vetted by this process in a fair, 18 reasonable, and timely manner -- timely manner, and 19 that a green light is given to the sale and it signals 20 to all an economic boost to Windham County and that 21 you can do business in Vermont.

22 So we thank you.

23 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you very 24 much.

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82 1 people's names. Meredith Angwin and then Robert 2 Stewart?

3 MS. ANGWIN: Hello; my name is Meredith 4 Angwin and I live in -- I live in Wilder, Vermont.

5 And I have blogged for many years at Yes Vermont 6 Yankee in case people are wondering what side of the 7 fence I'm on.

8 I would like to just make a comment about 9 the decommissioning. And that is that while the plant 10 was still running and Governor Shumlin -- at that 11 point he was governor, right -- was very much against 12 it. And he said, at one point in a press conference, 13 that if Vermont Yankee was decommissioned, it would be 14 a huge jobs bonus for this area. It would be fabulous 15 and it wouldn't actually lay people off because it 16 would take the plant a couple years to cool down and 17 people would still be employed. He -- the polite way 18 to describe this sort of thing is that he pulled this 19 stuff out of the air. That's the polite way.

20 At any rate, I was very interested in his 21 comments and I tried to figure out what actually 22 happened in decommissioning. And then during the 23 course of this, I interviewed a lot of people at three 24 Yankees, at Energy Solutions, I read articles from 25 EPRI. I read articles from all over the place. I NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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83 1 used to work in the nuclear industry, so I can figure 2 some of these things out.

3 And what I found out was that a lot of the 4 data that I would've liked to find, but was really 5 very wrapped up in -- in the economics of the 6 different companies doing the decommissioning and was 7 proprietary. So the idea that this particular case, 8 there was proprietary economic data and that's so --

9 so shocking to some people, it's just standard. I 10 mean, I wish it wasn't -- sometimes it wasn't 11 standard.

12 For example, I would have -- I wanted to 13 know what percentage of the decommissioning money 14 actually went to truck drivers and to transport, as 15 opposed to people working on the site. This is 16 proprietary data. I was told that by everybody and I 17 think it's true and I think companies have a right to 18 proprietary data. I -- my -- my point isn't that we 19 should look more or look harder or look this or look 20 that.

21 My point is that decommissioning and many 22 other processes like this do have propriety economic 23 data. This is not the first time. As I say, I was 24 looking all over the country for this kind of data.

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84 1 it's handled.

2 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you.

3 I have Robert Stewart and then Patty 4 O'Donnell.

5 MR. STEWART: Yes, I'm Robert Stewart, 6 although I go by Jake. And I live in Brookfield, 7 Vermont. I'm a professional engineer and I've been 8 concerned about radioactivity ever since the plant 9 started operation.

10 And I'm particularly concerned now, among 11 other things, but about the rubblization. If that 12 becomes a possibility, I think that's a big mistake to 13 leave radioactive material on-site. Even if it's 14 diluted with other less radioactive material to dilute 15 it, I think it all should be removed.

16 The -- you know, diluting it is really not 17 a solution. And the radioactive isotopes will 18 migrate. They will get into the Connecticut River and 19 already are. And the -- they also will get into the 20 aquifer. They cannot be stopped. So I think the less 21 material that's radioactive on-site, the better. So 22 I hope that all of that material will be, as much as 23 possible, can be removed. Thank You.

24 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

25 We'll have, after Patty, Janet Rasmussen.

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85 1 MS. O'DONNELL: Good evening. Thank you 2 so much for coming here tonight and giving us the 3 opportunity to speak to you. As Kate said, my name is 4 Patty O'Donnell. I have -- I come from the Town of 5 Vernon and I have over twenty years of experience of 6 representing the Town of Vernon in one way or another.

7 I've served on the school board, the select board, and 8 I've been a state representative for twelve years.

9 And I have to say coming from Vernon is 10 not always an easy thing. It's not always easy to be 11 the town with the nuclear power plant, although we 12 have felt for years that we certainly helped the state 13 out and are reaching out in many, many ways.

14 Closing Vermont Yankee has been a very, 15 very difficult thing for my town. It's really hard 16 for a town of twenty-one hundred people to try to 17 figure out how do you go on. The most important 18 people in this whole process, in this whole 19 conversation, the ones who are going to benefit or 20 hurt the most by the decisions that are made here, is 21 the Town of Vernon. It's our community. We've 22 struggled through an awful lot and it's time to allow 23 us to go on to our future. And going on to that 24 future is decommissioning that plant.

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86 1 years, we want that plant decommissioned, we want that 2 plant closed. Well, they got their way; the plant is 3 closed. Now, we want our way. We want a viable, 4 fair, honest looking into the proposal. If everything 5 works out well, we want the plant decommissioned as 6 fast as we can. You will hear after, peers of mine in 7 Vernon will tell you about our plans for the future 8 and how we've been working very hard in our planning 9 commission to reinvent ourselves, but nothing can be 10 done until the plant is gone.

11 We have already developed or started to 12 develop a relationship with -- with Scott. We had a 13 wonderful relationship with Vermont Yankee. I know we 14 will continue our relationship with NorthStar. And 15 they're already working with us. But please, give us 16 a chance for a future. We certainly have given our 17 state enough in the last forty-two years.

18 MS. RASMUSSEN: Janet Rasmussen, a 19 resident of Vernon and a member of the Vernon Planning 20 Commission. I think Patty said everything far more 21 elegantly than I could.

22 FROM THE AUDIENCE: No one can hear you, 23 ma'am.

24 MS. RASMUSSEN: I'm Janet Rasmussen. I'm 25 a resident of Vernon and also a member of the Planning NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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87 1 Commission. I think Patty O'Donnell said what I would 2 like to say a lot more elegantly than I could.

3 But what I really want to underscore is we 4 live in Vernon. We work in Vernon. Our economic 5 future is dependent on this plant being -- plant being 6 decommissioned as quickly as possible, but also as 7 safely as possible.

8 No one has a seat closer at the table than 9 we should, because we live there. We are -- the 10 Planning Commission has become intervenors in the 11 process. We are -- we will read everything that we 12 can. We have had permission from the select board to 13 hire experts, if we can, to help us through the 14 process.

15 We're encouraged about the process thus 16 far and we hope that we are allowed to have a fair 17 hearing. And please know no one wants this to happen 18 more than us, economically and safely. Thank you.

19 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

20 Howard Shaffer and then Madeline Arms?

21 And because it's raining, you do have to yell a little 22 bit louder into the microphone.

23 Howard's passing. So does Maddie want to 24 go next? And next up is going to be Lissa Weinmann.

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88 1 resident and also member of the Planning Commission.

2 Thank you very, very much for coming here, and 3 listening to everyone, and taking all of our opinions 4 and our hopes and our dreams into your consideration.

5 I certainly would like to add my support 6 to what Patty and Janet have said. This has been a 7 topic of much discussion in the Planning Commission 8 and throughout the Town of Vernon. And I sincerely 9 believe that it will not be just the Town of Vernon 10 that benefits from this revitalization. It's going to 11 spread to the surrounding towns and to actually the 12 whole state of Vermont, as well. Thank you very much.

13 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

14 Lissa?

15 MS. WEINMANN: Hi; I'm Lissa Weinmann.

16 I'm a resident of Brattleboro and, again, I, too, 17 appreciate you coming here tonight to hear views from 18 our community.

19 I would say that in my view the Town of 20 Brattleboro is really the host town for the reactor.

21 Vernon is -- is the town where it is, but it's really 22 the Town of Brattleboro that -- that absorbs a lot of 23 the -- the emergency preparedness and other things 24 that have to do with the plant really emanate from 25 Brattleboro. So I would say that, in my view, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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89 1 Brattleboro is the town of record here, more than 2 Vernon.

3 But I have a couple of things I just want 4 to say, quickly, which is I think that in this process 5 really when there is a license transfer that a new 6 P.S.D.A.R. should be completed. I think it's a new 7 entity and really demands that a new P.S.D.A.R. be put 8 forth and not just a revised one.

9 I would also say that I have a lot of 10 issues with the cost of the decommissioning. Entergy 11 thought it was going to be one point two billion. Our 12 Public Service Department did an independent 13 assessment and they thought it would be along the 14 lines of two billion to -- to decommission the 15 reactor. So those numbers are so wildly different, 16 it's hard for the public to really reconcile what is 17 real here.

18 I know that the overhead is going to come 19 down and there's a lot of reasons why it's lower, but 20 that's a lot lower. And that calls into question the 21 credibility of the numbers in my mind.

22 I just want to say also that I do believe 23 that as long as the spent fuel is in the pool and the 24 whole process of moving the fuel to dry fuel storage 25 means that we should have an adequate level of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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90 1 emergency planning that the NRC has reduced. And I 2 understand that decision's been made, but I take issue 3 with that and I think it was a foolish decision.

4 I'd also like to -- to just on record say 5 that I think that allowing Entergy to use the 6 decommissioning fund in ways that it has put forth was 7 not also something that the community supported. And 8 I took issue with that, the NRC's decision with that 9 as well.

10 I would like -- I know that you have an 11 environmental impact study that was generically done 12 for this site but --.

13 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Lissa, I don't want to 14 rush you, but I'm going to rush you.

15 MS. WEINMANN: Okay. All right. Well, 16 two more points. One is that are any of the other 17 reactor sites have a school at the front door?

18 Because I think that the presence of school children 19 who we know children are much more susceptible to 20 radio -- radiation. I mean, they -- they absorb it 21 much differently than adults do. What are the 22 measures that are going to be taken for the very 23 unique circumstance that this plant is in, in having 24 a school at its doorstep? I don't think that's the 25 case with any other plants anywhere.

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91 1 And then finally, I would just say that I 2 am against the rubblization. It flies in the face of 3 what Entergy had agreed to do. And while it may be 4 acceptable for the NRC and Federal standards it's not 5 what Entergy had promised in -- in its agreement with 6 the state.

7 I still have a lot of other things, but 8 I'll put them in my written comments. And again, I 9 appreciate your review.

10 CHAIR O'CONNOR: All right. Thank you.

11 Next up is going to be Bill Sayre and then 12 Dan Jeffries.

13 MR. SAYRE: My name is Bill Sayre. I'm an 14 economist from Bristol. My family has a lumber 15 manufacture and as such -- is that better -- and as 16 such, I'm also representing Associated Industries of 17 Vermont, which is the trade association for Vermont 18 manufacturers. I want to thank you for making the 19 trip up to Vermont to hear what we have to say and 20 appreciate the opportunity to speak to you all.

21 I may take a different view. I will take 22 a different view than some who will speak to you 23 tonight. I want to start by expressing my -- my 24 association and my company's gratitude to Vermont 25 Yankee and Entergy Corporation for all the years of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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92 1 reliable, affordable, low-carbon energy that they 2 provided to the manufacturers of Vermont. We 3 appreciate it very greatly.

4 And we now appreciate the agreement that 5 they've reached with NorthStar to transition into a 6 decommissioning process that will be more rapid and 7 just as safe and just as high quality. We believe 8 this is good for Windham County and it's good for 9 Vermont. It secures the important safety and health 10 standards that we all want to see, keeps the economy 11 going, and gets the process completed in a more timely 12 fashion.

13 Thank you very much.

14 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

15 After Dan Jeffries, it will be Bob 16 Spencer.

17 MR. JEFFRIES: Good evening. Thank you 18 NRC for making the trip up here. We were kind of 19 joking that down in the NRC, somebody must have asked 20 for volunteers to come up to Vermont. But it looks 21 like they got some players. Appreciate your being 22 here.

23 I got a question. This is something I 24 probably knew at one time, but have forgotten, and 25 there's a reason for asking it. The question is who NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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93 1 owns these spent fuel, the dry casks, after the 2 decommissioning is complete? One of the reasons 3 that's on my mind is it seems to me that it would be 4 appropriate for the Republican Congress to pass a law 5 forcing the ownership of those dry casks onto the 6 Department of Energy.

7 The Federal Government said they would 8 take this spent fuel way back in the '60s when they 9 initially allowed the industry to start building the 10 nuclear power plant. So I think they should take it 11 by law and not leave that open to argument.

12 Number two question is -- is NorthStar 13 publicly held. And if so, how's business? And the 14 reason I ask that question is that I'm an Entergy 15 retiree and when I was looking at my retirement plans, 16 I was looking at how secure is this Entergy retirement 17 check I'm going to be getting. Entergy is a large 18 utility, down south. Regardless of what might have 19 happened with any of their nuclear power plants up 20 here, I always felt that they were a very secure 21 company and that my check was highly reliable.

22 If NorthStar is publicly traded and can 23 comment on their -- you know, how things are going 24 business-wise, I would expect that if they needed to 25 bring more money to the table for the next, you know, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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94 1 five years, past 2026, ten years past, if the cash 2 flow is there, I consider the finances secure.

3 May not do much for the stockholders if, 4 in fact, it's publicly -- publicly held, but if 5 they've got the cash flow, it should come to Vermont 6 Yankee if necessary.

7 And the other thing that's on my mind --

8 by the way, I forgot to comment, I'm a resident of 9 Brattleboro. So one thing I've noticed in all the 10 discussion is -- and I can't quite get a grip on it --

11 is what's so important about this one hundred acres 12 down here in Vernon. If you take a ride up and down 13 the river, there's a lot of undeveloped land up and 14 down the river. Why is this one hundred acres so 15 extremely important? It seems like this real estate's 16 value is extremely exaggerated in my mind. And to 17 that end, I'm comfortable with the four -- four-foot 18 reclamation. And I'm also comfortable with the 19 rubblization as proposed. Thank you.

20 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

21 Again, it's Bob Spencer and then Peggy 22 Farabaugh is next.

23 MR. SPENCER: Good evening and thank you 24 to the NRC. Bob Spencer, I'm Chair of the Vernon 25 Planning Economic Development Commission. We've heard NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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95 1 from three of our members already. We also have two 2 other members here, Jeff Dunkley and also Martin 3 Langeveld, who is on the Panel.

4 So we are the -- the board that's charged 5 with looking at future use of this site. And we 6 recently prepared an op-ed piece that was put into the 7 local papers. I was just going to hit a couple 8 highlights of that.

9 That basically what we're looking at is a 10 Reenergize Vernon campaign. We like the idea that 11 some of the other decommissioned sites have hosted 12 other -- energy generating facilities. We are looking 13 at such things as microgrid battery storage, 14 hydroelectric because of the existing TransCanada, now 15 ArcLight facility, possibly solar, and the spinoff 16 businesses such as cloud storage and other high energy 17 intensive using -- uses.

18 We'd also like to point out the over one-19 hundred-year history of Vernon in hosting energy 20 production, starting with the Vernon hydroelectric dam 21 in the early 1900s and then transitioning into the 22 nuclear power plant. So we feel we have a history and 23 a mission, sort of, to keep hosting this sort of 24 technology that benefits, really, three states and 25 hundreds of thousands of people.

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96 1 The -- this next chapter that we're 2 talking about, we're -- we're working through a number 3 of municipal planning projects with the Windham 4 Regional Commission to update our town plan to look at 5 hosting and facilitating development of such 6 facilities. We also are amending our plan to make it 7 -- give it something that the state has a new 8 regulation that would give us a substantial deference 9 in supporting or opposing energy facilities.

10 So we're doing a lot that we feel will 11 help facilitate redevelopment of this site. And we 12 really are -- as an intervenor, as Janet said, we'll 13 be commenting formally on this process and are 14 cautiously optimistic that this deal will happen.

15 So thank you everyone for your -- your 16 professional review and the due diligence from the 17 private entities, too.

18 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Great. Thank you.

19 After Peggy, it's going to be Betsy 20 Williams and then Josh Unruh.

21 MS. FARABAUGH: Thank you, Kate and Panel 22 for the opportunity to speak.

23 My name is Peggy Farabaugh. I'm from 24 Vernon. I have lived there for twenty years. My 25 husband was laid off from Entergy, so I'm coming from NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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97 1 a point where a lot of people are -- in Vernon are 2 coming from. We've suffered a lot from the shutdown 3 of the plant. But the community has come together in 4 an amazing way to rebirth the town.

5 And I've heard a lot of opinions tonight 6 about how to do that, but none of them speak to me 7 about the difference between the environmental health 8 and safety of a plant that's six years versus sixty 9 years. So I'd just encourage you on behalf of the 10 folks who I know in Vernon to make it sooner than 11 later.

12 And in sixty years, all of us are going to 13 dead. Right? And so in six years, this is something 14 that could really help like my children and -- and the 15 children of other people from Vernon who are in this 16 room. So if there is no compelling safety 17 environment, health, or financial reasons, please help 18 us get this done in six years, instead of sixty.

19 Thank you.

20 CHAIR O'CONNOR: We have Betsy and then 21 Josh Unruh.

22 MS. WILLIAMS: Okay. My thoughts are a 23 little bit scattered. I'll try to keep it focused.

24 We've had a long history of interacting 25 with various representatives from the NRC in the past.

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98 1 And as somebody said earlier, I commend -- I don't 2 know which raffle you won to come up here. They 3 haven't always been very pleasant interactions in the 4 past.

5 I think one thing that's different this 6 time is that in the past, we were debating the 7 continued operation of a plant and now what we're 8 talking about is how do we safely and efficiently and 9 cost effectively decommission it and decontaminate it.

10 We have a common goal. I think I've -- I 11 think -- I guess I don't know, but I would assume that 12 pretty much everybody in this room wants the same 13 thing, which is we want that site to be cleaned up and 14 cleaned up to the highest possible level it can, and 15 for that not to become a burden financially on anyone 16 other than the owners of this -- of the plant.

17 I think what we do debate is how we'll get 18 there and how we'll get there in a way that we all can 19 trust. Trust is a big issue here. We have lots and 20 lots of reasons not to trust this company, and lots 21 and lots of reasons not to trust the NRC, quite 22 frankly.

23 We're talking about the most dangerous 24 substance known to humankind that we are dealing with.

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99 1 sites much larger and more involved than Vermont 2 Yankee. But most of them were not dealing with the 3 most dangerous substances known to humankind.

4 We're talking about many of those 5 substances leaving a legacy for up to a thousand 6 generations. A thousand generations. That's our 7 legacy. So what we do here in these next few years is 8 really, really, really important and it cannot be 9 taken lightly.

10 And I have been frustrated by decisions by 11 the NRC in the past. For example, I do not believe 12 that the Holtec decision, that that was the cask to 13 use on the site, was the best decision. I don't 14 believe that the NRC is committed to holding the --

15 whichever company is involved in this process -- to 16 the very highest possible standard known to humankind 17 today. That's what they should be held to. Not to 18 what -- the last time I was at the NRC hearing, I was 19 told by an NRC representative that the Holtec casks 20 were adequate. I'm not looking for adequate.

21 I don't think the people of Vernon or 22 Brattleboro or anywhere in this Tri-State region are 23 looking for adequate. They are looking for the 24 highest possible standard that we know of. And that's 25 what I would like the NRC to be looking for, as well.

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100 1 And I would like to feel assured that that is what the 2 NRC is going to be holding whichever company 3 accountable to.

4 It concerns me greatly, as it does many 5 others in this room, that my understanding and I --

6 I'm not completely sure of this, but my understanding 7 is that most, if not all, of the decommissionings that 8 have happened to date have had cost overruns. Almost 9 all of them, if not all of them. While it would be 10 wonderful if that did not happen here, I think that we 11 clearly have to have an absolutely assured plan of 12 what happens should that happen.

13 And a company that has gone belly up, 14 whether or not they're the owners, does not give me 15 assurance of then who's going to bear the burden of 16 this very dangerous legacy.

17 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Betsy --.

18 MS. WILLIAMS: And I'm about to wind up, 19 Kate.

20 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay.

21 MS. WILLIAMS: So it also concerns me that 22 what we're talking about here are two things that I 23 think are in real competition with each other, which 24 is we're trying to keep things to a certain cost which 25 makes sense, but we're also trying to do it at the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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101 1 most -- the highest possible standard of safety that 2 we know of, which usually also translates to being a 3 more expensive process.

4 The better casks are more expensive. The 5 process for handling the materials in the most careful 6 way is more expensive. And those two things are in 7 direct opposition to each other. And that is the very 8 difficult path that we are navigating. Thank you.

9 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

10 Josh -- is Josh Unruh -- Josh Unruh and 11 then Haley Pero.

12 And I just want to remind people if you 13 could say your name and where you're from and keep 14 your comments to about two minutes, that would be much 15 appreciated.

16 MR. UNRUH: I can do that. I'm Josh 17 Unruh, Select Board Chair in Vernon. I'd like to 18 thank everybody for their time this evening.

19 To reiterate what has been said, there is 20 no one with a stronger stake in the sale in the site's 21 safe decommissioning than the Town of Vernon. I stand 22 in support of the sale of Vermont Yankee to NorthStar.

23 I've had the opportunity to meet with the NorthStar 24 Executives regarding their purchase and their 25 potential new partnership with the Town of Vernon.

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102 1 Through these conversations, my personal 2 questions and concerns have been put to rest. Among 3 many -- among many things over the last several months 4 we've heard, and we've also heard it tonight, is 5 concerns about the school across the street from 6 Vermont Yankee. The funny thing is that none of these 7 people have children at Vernon Elementary School. I 8 do. I have three little girls at Vernon Elementary 9 School.

10 I'm no scientist. I'm no demolition 11 expert. So I put my trust in the people that deal in 12 this industry day in and day out that will govern the 13 sale and demolition. That's the NRC and NorthStar.

14 To get this land back to a usable state safely is 15 paramount for Vernon and Southern Vermont for economic 16 development. To not allow this sale is further 17 cutting the Town of Vernon and Southern Vermont off at 18 its knees. Thank you.

19 CHAIR O'CONNOR: After Haley, we're going 20 to have Ann Darling and then Leo Schiff.

21 MS. PERO: Thank you for the opportunity 22 to say a few words. My name is Haley Pero and I work 23 in Senator Bernie Sanders' office. Tonight, I'm 24 joined by my colleagues, Tom Berry in Senator Leahy's 25 office, and George Twigg in Congressman Welch's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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103 1 office.

2 On behalf of the delegation, we'd like to 3 thank the NRC for making the trip to Vermont to hear 4 directly from Vermonters. We think that's very 5 important. And we'd also like to thank the Panel for 6 making this meeting possible and also being a conduit 7 for public information.

8 The delegation has long believed that 9 public engagement is really critical to this process, 10 so it's terrific to see so many members of the public 11 here tonight.

12 As many of you may know, Bernie has 13 introduced legislation a few years ago to make sure 14 that local and state input is a meaningful and formal 15 part of the decommissioning process, particularly on 16 the P.S.D.A.R. Bernie will soon be reintroducing this 17 bill and including an opportunity for the public to 18 give input on license transfers, so then situations 19 like we find ourselves, the public will still have a 20 voice. Thank you.

21 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Haley. And 22 again, thanks to the Congressional delegation. They 23 were very helpful in getting the NRC to come here this 24 evening.

25 Ann?

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104 1 MS. DARLING: Hi; I'm Ann Darling. I live 2 in East Hampton, Massachusetts, which is down the 3 river. And -- but for until a few years ago, I was a 4 thirty-five-year resident of this area. And I 5 consider myself -- this is my home. So I guess, you 6 know, we're -- the Vermont Yankee site, it's in the 7 corner of Vermont, but it's right close to 8 Massachusetts and New Hampshire.

9 So the State has jurisdiction -- the State 10 of Vermont has jurisdiction over the non-radiological 11 aspects of decommissioning, the residents all over 12 this area of all different states, not just Vermont, 13 will kind of bear the brunt or the -- feel the impact 14 of the operation, the shutdown, the decommissioning, 15 all of that.

16 So my -- I'm asking the NRC what your 17 commitment is to communicating with all of these 18 parties and coordinating, particularly, with the State 19 of Vermont? But all of us, as moving forward, it's 20 kind of germane to what you were just saying. We have 21 -- these are our lives. So we want you to talk to us.

22 I did ask a question.

23 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yeah. Would you folks 24 like to respond?

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105 1 microphone. So sorry. I'll try and -- and, Kate, 2 I'll try and be brief.

3 To answer your question about what our 4 commitment is on being transparent and communicating, 5 transparency is another one of the NRC's cornerstones.

6 I don't know how else to say it more clearly. I can 7 tell you as a -- the Deputy Director in the 8 decommissioning division, it's extremely important to 9 me as well. It's why we're here. It's why we have 10 four of us sitting up here today. And so you do have 11 our commitment. It is part of what's -- extremely 12 important to us. Everything we do should be 13 transparent.

14 And it is -- I don't know if nice is the 15 right way to put it, but it is nice and striking to me 16 to sit here and listen to concerns, questions, 17 comments, no matter what side of the issue that you're 18 on, but it's extremely important to me and I'm happy 19 to be here.

20 MS. DARLING. Thank you.

21 I just want to say that, like my friend 22 Betsy, many, many times we've sat with the NRC We 23 haven't -- some of us have not felt that -- that we 24 were more important than the industry -- the nuclear 25 industry. And so I -- you're going to run into that NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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106 1 and we don't just want transparency. We want you to 2 really listen and take our opinions into 3 consideration. We want our -- what we say to have an 4 impact. And that means people of Vernon and everybody 5 else that lives here. We want to -- we want you to 6 listen and do something about what we think. Thank 7 you.

8 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Ann.

9 After Leo, it's going to be Guy Page and 10 then Bob Leach.

11 MR. SCHIFF: Hi there. My name's Leo 12 Schiff. I live in Brattleboro. And I really 13 appreciate the representatives of the NRC coming. I 14 understand that this might be your last trip ever to 15 Brattleboro. And because of that, I've got a question 16 for you that is a little bit tangential to the sale of 17 the property.

18 First, I want to locate myself as firmly 19 against nuclear weapons and nuclear power, and in 20 favor of long-term onsite stewardship of the dry casks 21 in Vernon. What I'd like to ask you is what makes you 22 so sure that it would be safe to transport the highest 23 level nuclear waste and other medium or low level 24 nuclear waste along our decaying rail lines and with 25 the possible threats of terrorism?

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107 1 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Do you have any other 2 questions, Leo?

3 MR. SCHIFF: No, but I'd love to get an 4 answer.

5 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. Great. Thank you.

6 MR. WATSON: Your question is pertaining 7 to the safe transportation of radioactive materials.

8 I can assure you that it's done almost every day in 9 this country, whether it's in the commercial business 10 or in the Defense Department. There's strict 11 requirements on the condition of the rails, the roads, 12 et cetera, on which those materials would be 13 transported and -- and significant security 14 requirements, especially for the transportation of 15 spent fuel.

16 So I can tell you it's done safely and 17 frequently in this country all the time, may not ever 18 -- be every day. I've personally been involved in a 19 number of them. And the lengths that are taken for 20 the security in the routing and the safety of the 21 packages and the transportation are extensive. Thank 22 you.

23 MR. PAGE: Guy Page, Berlin, Vermont, 24 Vermont Energy Partnership. So welcome back to 25 Vermont. Last time you were here I think the room is NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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108 1 about forty-five degrees, if I remember correctly.

2 And just so you know, tonight the last leaves at ten 3 with all the rain.

4 So anyway, as I think Mr. Twomey pointed 5 out, the decommissioning trust fund is five hundred 6 and seventy-two million. The expenses of the 7 NorthStar plan, as I understand it, about four hundred 8 and ninety-eight million. So that's about a seventy-9 four-million-dollar surplus. That's pretty good.

10 Additional cost overrun, risk mitigation, you've got 11 some guaranteed fixed payments and bonding. Team 12 performance bonds, team contractual commitments, and 13 one hundred and twenty-five million dollars support 14 agreement, basically an insurance policy.

15 And, you know, you guys are going to be 16 doing the deep dive on -- you know, on the -- the 17 ability of the company to -- to -- you know, have the 18 financial wherewithal on the technical skill and all 19 that. But service, that seems like that's a good 20 prudent plan.

21 The other thing is, you know, we've really 22 got to look at NorthStar's past and their future.

23 They -- they've decommissioned hundreds of power 24 facilities. You know, we've seen all these. And as 25 I've been Googling them, I haven't found any accounts NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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109 1 of, you know, oh, boy they really messed up this one.

2 I haven't found any those. Okay? It seems that 3 they've got a pretty good record. Extensive 4 experience in nuclear decommissioning.

5 And -- and really in terms of failing, the 6 questions were asked were what happens if you find 7 something you didn't think you're going to find, and 8 I thought Mr. State's answer was a good one. But 9 really you don't become a world leader by failing to 10 see and deal with the unforeseen. That's just a 11 characteristic of -- of a business successes. You 12 know how to deal with these things. So I -- my sense 13 is that that they do.

14 And -- and a big question I think you 15 really need to ask is, okay, what's the alternative.

16 The alternative is sixty years SAFSTOR. As Peggy 17 said, you know, we're all dead by the time this thing 18 is done.

19 So I -- I know you're going to do due 20 diligence on this. And I know the public service work 21 is going to do due diligence. And that's all very 22 good. That's all very necessary but I just hope the 23 take on this is we want to get to yes. Okay? Because 24 it's good for the community. It's even good for the 25 environment. And I just hope it gets done. Thank NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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110 1 you.

2 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Guy.

3 I just want to assure everybody if you 4 signed up to speak, you will get to speak. So don't 5 -- don't worry about that.

6 After Bob Leach, we're going to have Paul 7 Blanch.

8 MR. LEACH: Good evening -- evening. My 9 name is Bob Leach. I'm a Brattleboro resident and I 10 strongly support the transfer of the license and the 11 sale of Vermont Yankee to NorthStar.

12 I'm a Vermont Yankee retiree. For many 13 years, I was the R.P.M., Radiation Protection Manager.

14 I was also certified a reactor operator, a senior 15 reactor operator. I'm a plank owner. For those who 16 don't know the Navy terminology, it's anybody that was 17 there when they commissioned it. I was there when it 18 was still a hole in the ground.

19 I looked into NorthStar and the team 20 that's working on this project with NorthStar, W.S.C.

21 and Areva. Areva is an international company.

22 They've been building power plants -- nuclear power 23 plants around the world for as long as I can remember.

24 They're a very respectable company. They have an 25 outstanding reputation in the nuclear industry.

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111 1 Excuse me.

2 W.S.C. is an operator of the radioactive 3 waste disposal site down in Texas. Vermont Yankee --

4 or Vermont and Texas are the compact folks that 5 established that particular site. W.S.C.S. operates 6 that facility and they do it in a safe and 7 professional manner. It will be an extremely valuable 8 asset in the process of preparing, scheduling, and 9 shipping the huge amount of radioactive waste which is 10 going to be leaving Vermont Yankee.

11 NorthStar has reputation for 12 decommissioning non-nuclear power plants for years.

13 They were used as a major subcontractor in one of the 14 Midwest power plants. And everything I heard from 15 that, they've been doing an outstanding job.

16 They did operate and successfully 17 decontaminate a nuclear facility that was not a power 18 plant. They did some work of Vermont Yankee, 19 recently. It was potentially the removal of the north 20 warehouse. Some of you are aware of that building.

21 That was the first building at Vermont Yankee that 22 received any radioactive waste, radioactive material, 23 and it was used to store radioactive material right up 24 until it was -- was decommissioned.

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112 1 relatively small crew. They brought in the right 2 equipment and they completed the job on schedule and 3 on budget. NorthStar and their partners are very 4 capable, knowledgeable, and they've got extensive 5 experience in this kind of job.

6 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Bob, I'm going to have to 7 move you along.

8 MR. LEACH: Okay.

9 CHAIR O'CONNOR: I won't gong you or 10 anything like that but.

11 MR. LEACH: Okay. Sorry.

12 Listen, we're just saying they've got the 13 expertise and the ability and I strongly support 14 giving them the chance to do it.

15 I would like to ask one question to the 16 NRC. I understand the State of Vermont is trying to 17 become or looking into becoming an agreement state.

18 I think I know the answer, but if they do become an 19 agreement state, would they -- I know that the NRC 20 regulates power plants, but decommissioning is 21 slightly different. And would Vermont be obligated in 22 any way if they become an agreement state? That's a 23 yes or no question.

24 MR. WATSON: The answer is no.

25 MR. LEACH: Thank you.

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113 1 MR. WATSON: Part 50 licenses are the 2 responsibility of the NRC to regulate.

3 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay. After Paul Blanch, 4 we're going to have Kyle Landis-Marinello and then 5 Clay Turnbull.

6 MR. BLANCH: Good evening. Thank you, 7 Members of the Panel and Madam Chairman.

8 My name is Paul Blanch. I reside in West 9 Hartford, Connecticut, about seventy miles south of 10 the plant. I'm a -- I'm going to cut my speech, in 11 the interest of time, a little bit short. But I have 12 passed out copies to members of the Panel and also to 13 Andrea of the NRC. So I'm going to cut out the major 14 part of it, as Mark MacDonald so eloquently described 15 my concerns.

16 I'm a professional engineer with more than 17 fifty years of nuclear safety experience and 18 regulatory experience. I've worked at Maine Yankee 19 during the decommissioning, at Connecticut Yankee 20 during the decommissioning, and I sat on a similar 21 panel overseeing the decommissioning of Millstone Unit 22 One. So I have quite a bit of experience in 23 regulatory issues and a limited amount of experience 24 in decommissioning.

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114 1 and it was just briefly mentioned in one of the NRC 2 slides, but no one seems to have amplified on it --

3 and I have a couple extra copies. And that's 10 4 C.F.R. 50.75. So I would like the Panel to review 5 that. It has to do with financial stability of the 6 licensee and guarantee of -- decommissioning funds.

7 So following up from Mark's dialogue, I'd 8 like to make some recommendations to the Panel that 9 Vermont must consider the requirements of some type 10 of, quote, surety method insurance or other guaranteed 11 method, close quote, as required by 10 C.F.R. 50.75 as 12 a condition for transfer of the Vermont Yankee 13 license.

14 Vermont's attorneys and the Panel must 15 determine the amount of the surety bond required to 16 assure Vermont is financially protected. Typical 17 amounts for performance-type bonds are equal to the 18 fix contract amount. However, this particular job is 19 not a typical contract. Vermont's attorneys must 20 review the license transfer and regulations of 50.75 21 to assure the financial protection should NorthStar 22 fail to perform.

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115 1 50.75.

2 A couple of statements were made by Scott 3 about indemnification. If there is indemnification or 4 bonding, certainly that kind of statement needs to be 5 in writing and checked out.

6 And the other thing that somewhat bothered 7 me by some of NorthStar's statements were the amount 8 of contamination they have removed from various sites.

9 And I don't disagree they have removed contamination, 10 but nuclear contamination is not the same as lead, 11 asbestos, P.C.B.s. It has its own characteristics.

12 And they need to have that expertise, that power plant 13 expertise on board to assure a safe decommissioning.

14 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Paul.

15 MR. BLANCH: Thank you very much.

16 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Kyle Landis-Marinello and 17 then Clay Turnbull.

18 MR. LANDIS-MARINELLO: I'm Kyle Landis-19 Marinello. I'm an Assistant Attorney General for the 20 State of Vermont. Our office is looking at this 21 transaction, closely. This is a matter that the 22 Attorney General was briefed on, on day one when he --

23 when he took office.

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116 1 Board, along with the Agency of Natural Resources and 2 the Public Service Department, and with some 3 consultation with the Department of Health, as well.

4 We plan to participate in the proceeding at the NRC, 5 along with all of those agencies.

6 Generally, we want this site cleaned up 7 quickly, and the transaction looks good for that 8 reason. But this transaction needs to be fully 9 vetted. We need to ensure, one, the site is going to 10 be fully cleaned up, and two, that the cost of that 11 cleanup do not fall on Vermonters.

12 A full vetting requires more information.

13 For instance, there's a line item in the new 14 decommissioning plan of two hundred twenty-three 15 million dollars for decontamination and dismantlement.

16 That's very different from the line-by-line breakdown 17 that was provided in the original decommissioning cost 18 estimate.

19 A second example, the spent fuel costs for 20 this transfer assume that the Department of Energy 21 will pick up all of the fuel by 2052. There's no 22 guarantee that will happen. If it doesn't happen, 23 there could be massive costs, particularly if we reach 24 the one-hundred-year mark where dry casks would 25 possibly need to be repackaged. And even if the pick-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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117 1 up occurs by 2052, there's a chance that the 2 Department of Energy is going to require different 3 casks for transportation.

4 These type of costs need to be looked at 5 and there needs to be an answer of where those costs 6 would come from. So there is more information needed 7 to fully vet this transaction.

8 It was encouraging to hear that the NRC 9 still has the availability of request for additional 10 information and we would support the NRC availing 11 itself of that to provide more information to itself 12 and to the public about how this transaction will do 13 what everyone wants it to do and get the site cleaned 14 up quickly.

15 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Kyle.

16 We're going to have Clay Turnbull. And 17 then after Clay, we're going to have Gary Sachs.

18 MR. TURNBULL: Hi. Good evening. Thanks 19 for coming up to Vermont. So it's -- this is a warm 20 welcome. Yeah.

21 I hope, in -- in not too many years, you 22 folks at NRC are going to be able to, if -- almost 23 brag that you were up at this meeting in Vermont 24 because the decommissioning turned out so successful 25 in Vermont that it's -- it's like -- it's what people NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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118 1 talk about and you'll be able to say yeah, we were 2 there early in that process.

3 In a -- in a complex project like this, to 4 be successful, it is essential to know what the goal 5 is. And in this case, that -- that is like what will 6 the site look like post-decommissioning. And I -- oh, 7 I'm sorry. Clay Turnbull. I live in Townshend and 8 it's been a long time since I said and I proudly live 9 in a solar powered home for twenty-five years, off 10 grid.

11 And why not see if we can do the job here 12 of decommissioning? Can it be done? Can it be done 13 while honoring the commitments that Entergy has 14 already made to the State of Vermont?

15 We're presented with one option is let it 16 rust. The other option is to wait sixty years.

17 Another option is let's rush into this and get it --

18 let's -- we need to do this now. It's got to be done 19 by the end of the month, you know, make your decisions 20 right away, the rush or rust option. Or another 21 option is you can have a greenfield. Sixty years from 22 now, Entergy is going to honor their commitments.

23 They're not going to rubblize. You're going to have 24 a really beautiful site in sixty years or so; 25 decommissioning will be done. Or you can get a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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119 1 brownfield and we'll do it now.

2 And it's -- and it's -- we're given these 3 -- these greenfield or brownfield or rush-or-rust 4 options. What if we all have the goal of making that 5 site just as clean as possible, at least as clean as 6 Maine Yankee, so that we can all look back and not too 7 far down the road it would be -- really wonderful to 8 have that site decommissioned and ten years from now 9 be saying what a great job we did. So I say how about 10 we start with -- with that as a goal in mind.

11 Thank you.

12 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thanks, Clay.

13 After Gary, we're going to have R.T. Brown 14 and then Lorie Cartwright.

15 MR. SACH: Thanks for coming up, NRC.

16 Mr. State, I'm a little bit -- I haven't 17 been to these meetings, many of them, because I was 18 undergoing chemotherapy. And I would -- I remembered 19 Chairman Yeskel of the NRC came and met with the 20 activists a few years ago. I sure would like to meet 21 Mr. State to get some answers questioned because it 22 seems like this whole thing that's based on 23 proprietary data.

24 You know, if Entergy -- I mean, I'm sorry, 25 NorthStar, Entergy, they're so close to each other.

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120 1 If NorthStar disappears 2028, let's say, 2 what do we do? Go back to proprietary information?

3 I don't see how that works. I'd like to understand 4 more. Mr. Marinello -- Kyle Landis-Marinello spoke 5 about that line item piece in the original. And I 6 didn't see that in the current P.S.D.A.R.. But 7 needless to say, I haven't started.

8 2007, the World Business Academy wrote if 9 private investors won't buy into nuclear, why should 10 the public? In 2007, Entergy tried to spin off its 11 reactors into a company called SpinCo. In 2009, 12 Entergy officials were found to have misspoken.

13 Punishment was minimal, financial or not at all. What 14 happened is that Entergy, after the misspeaking of 15 2009, promised to be honest and forthcoming. Then it 16 shut down.

17 How sad that we, here in Vermont, never 18 got the chance to believe or experience Entergy making 19 good on their promises to be honest and forthright 20 with us. However, they have come up at Election Day, 21 this past year, hey, we found somebody to buy our 22 reactor. Where the heck with NorthStar when Entergy 23 was trying to sell the reactor for all those years?

24 How come you didn't buy in then? What is this crap 25 now?

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121 1 I mean, so in Election Day 2016, Entergy 2 made -- I mean, found a buyer. Here's NorthStar. Is 3 Entergy hiding responsibility for its poor purchase 4 decisions? Where was NorthStar when Entergy had the 5 reactor on sale? What insurance does the NRC have 6 that Mr. State can provide that there are no potential 7 liens into him for perhaps millions of dollars from 8 previous court cases or endeavors? I'd like to know 9 that before this happens.

10 Areva is being bailed out by the French 11 government. W.C.S. is already involved here, per the 12 compact. So to have them as part as -- of this 13 NorthStar is kind of redundant. But Burns and 14 McDonnell's always good to get a discount.

15 Okay. I perceived the D.U.I. settlement 16 agreement as an ultimatum. If it wasn't accepted 17 verbatim, it would not have been approved. It would 18 not have been passed into law. That's not a 19 negotiation. That's an ultimatum.

20 The -- this P.S.D.A.R. means very little 21 in a sense because the NRC doesn't approve it. It's 22 simply that NorthStar has to do it. It's like there's 23 a box they have to check off between here and the 24 decision.

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122 1 now? It started in April as per the --

2 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: (Off mic) 3 MR. SACH: Great. Good.

4 I believe this NorthStar deal is to --

5 well, I'll leave that for the last.

6 Okay. Vernon has been pro-V.Y. for forty-7 two years. Can we let them have the waste? I mean, 8 many of the Vernon residents, I mean, no disrespect, 9 had said we'll take the dry casks. Let's let them 10 have some, not have to put it all on the concrete, 11 give it all to -- make you guys responsible.

12 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Gary, I'm going to ask 13 you --

14 MR. SACH: Wait, very quickly.

15 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Okay.

16 MR. SACH: I've got two things.

17 I need a picture from you guys, either 18 Entergy or NorthStar, how much of that site is going 19 to be visible or going to be usable for people? One-20 hundred-twenty-five-acre site. Maine Yankee has a lot 21 of site that's not accessible because of the ISFSI.

22 Can we get a picture?

23 Would you guys like to see a picture to 24 see if there's actually going to be a recreational 25 area? Have you seen it?

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123 1 A project -- a projected picture of what 2 it would look like, have you seen it, Panel? No.

3 Thank you. I'd like to see that prior to whatever 4 transfer occurs. I'd like Mr. State to be more 5 forthcoming. I know, I'm sorry, I was going through 6 cancer, but I give you guys responsibility. I think 7 this entire deal is to line Mr. State's pocket.

8 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

9 R.T. Brown and then Lorie Cartwright. And 10 then we're going to have Rich Holschuh next, after 11 them.

12 MR. BROWN: Hi. Good evening. Thank you 13 to the Panel, the NRC, and to NorthStar for being here 14 tonight. I've timed myself to a minute and a half.

15 Let's see if I can achieve this.

16 Closer. Good evening. My name is R.T.

17 Brown. I work for the Brattleboro Development Credit 18 Corporation and I'm the Windham County Economic 19 Development Programs Project Manager. I also 20 administer some programs related to entrepreneurship 21 and innovation in the region.

22 The B.D.C.C. is one of twelve regional 23 development corporations throughout the state and we 24 serve the Windham region. Our sister entity, the 25 Southeastern Vermont Economic Development Strategies, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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124 1 developed the region's CEDS, or Comprehensive Economic 2 Development Strategy. It's essentially a road map for 3 the region -- or economic development road map.

4 My academic and professional background is 5 in applied economics as it relates to local and 6 regional development.

7 We entirely support the expedited process 8 as proposed by NorthStar as an accelerated timeline by 9 decades poses many opportunities for the community in 10 the region. Due to the accelerated timeline and 11 speaking from their perspective of regional economic 12 development entity, it should be noted that this --

13 this place has a greater pressure on the Town of 14 Vernon, which has very limited resources, to 15 sufficiently and clearly plan and develop the best 16 possible long-term reuse of the site.

17 There is an opportunity here to think 18 about Vernon's infrastructure and what -- what can be 19 done to provide the greatest possible long-term 20 economic impact for what has been a very supportive 21 rural host community. I think it was said very well 22 in the last P.S.B. meeting by someone -- and my 23 apologies, I don't -- I don't know their name.

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125 1 in this field that is only going to grow. We 2 encourage the parties here to put the community first 3 and do everything possible to not simply meet 4 expectations, but exceed them in ways that exhibit 5 innovation, thoughtfulness, and leadership as the next 6 chapter of nuclear power generationers is written 7 starting in Vernon, Vermont. Thank you.

8 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, R.T.

9 Lorie Cartwright and then after Rich, it's 10 going to be Peter Vanderdoes.

11 MS. CARTWRIGHT: I apologize, I wasn't 12 closer. It happened faster than I expected.

13 I am Lorie Cartwright and I am from 14 Brattleboro, Vermont. I would also like to take this 15 chance to thank the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for 16 coming to Brattleboro to speak to us and to hear us.

17 As a taxpayer, a citizen of this great 18 state and nation, a mother, and a fierce proponent of 19 truly renewable energy, solar, wind, and hydro, I 20 would like nothing more than to see this site be 21 cleaned up as expeditiously and safely as possible, 22 especially if it paves the way for the site to be made 23 available for the production of such truly renewable 24 forms of energy. It would be a boon to the local 25 economy.

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126 1 It seems that what divides some of the 2 people that we've heard from tonight from Vernon, from 3 some of the other people we've heard from tonight, is 4 this notion of having the site be released on an 5 unrestricted basis. The Nuclear Regulatory Commission 6 representatives outlined what some of the 7 decommissioned sites look like. But I wish that when 8 I'm done with my comment, they would just go over that 9 point again because I was always under the conception 10 that there aren't any former commercial reactor sites 11 that have been unrestricted. And that would include 12 the entire site of the former commercial reactor.

13 So if -- if somebody from the NRC could 14 articulate that for us again at the end of my comment 15 period, I would -- I would really appreciate it.

16 I do, again, think that that is the deep 17 divide. And for something this important, I think 18 that, frankly, I don't see there being anything more 19 important facing this world right now than the 20 cleaning up of nuclear power plant sites and the 21 storage of the high level, medium level, low level, 22 any level radiated waste. It's the most critical 23 issue for all of us.

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127 1 up and redeveloped in our lifetimes, I think that that 2 would be really helpful for everyone here to get 3 closer to what it is that they want at the end of 4 this.

5 I do have concerns about some of the ways 6 that the proposed purchaser is going to want to go 7 about cleaning up the site, and I won't spend a lot of 8 time talking about it. I apologize. I'm just -- I'm 9 really emotional about this because, like I said, I 10 can't consider anything more important to us than 11 this.

12 But rubblization is a concern; that is 13 diluting the pollution.

14 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Lorie, I'm going to have 15 to ask you to wrap it up.

16 MS. CARTWRIGHT: Okay. Okay. And then I 17 just -- I do want to say that it was great concern to 18 me that one of the representatives from NorthStar 19 suggested that they saw this sort of a clean-up the 20 same as any other site, that the fact that it was a 21 radioactive site really didn't make that much of a 22 difference to them. I think that that makes all of 23 the difference in the world.

24 Thank you.

25 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Lorie.

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128 1 There was a question, I think, to the NRC.

2 MR. WATSON: Yes, let me go ahead and 3 follow up on that. The sites that had been 4 decommissioned, all ten of them have been released for 5 unrestricted use, meaning the owner can do what they 6 want to on them. A few of them that which the fuel 7 was removed completely before by the -- the fuel was 8 removed by the Department of Energy are fully open to 9 any redevelopment that they want to. That would 10 include Shoreham, Pathfinder, Saxton.

11 About one-third have become parks or some 12 other use, like Maine Yankee. I mentioned that one 13 before. There are a number of plants where they had 14 built additional fossil units. At Rancho Seco, they 15 have two combined fossil units, combined cycle, they 16 use gas or whatever fuel they want to use. At 17 Humboldt Bay, they have ten combustion units which 18 they use for stabilizing the grid in Northern 19 California.

20 And at La Crosse -- both Humboldt Bay and 21 La Crosse right now are undergoing decommissioning, 22 but La Cross has a large coal powered plant right next 23 to the nuclear plant. So the sites can be reused for 24 a variety of purposes. It's really up to the owner.

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129 1 clarification, sir, thank you. The sites where the 2 fuel has not been removed, are those fully 3 unrestricted sites.

4 MR. WATSON: Yes, except for the fuel 5 facility -- the storage facility.

6 MS. CARTWRIGHT: Okay. Thank you.

7 MR. WATSON: Uh-huh.

8 CHAIR O'CONNOR: It's your turn, Rich.

9 MR. HOLSCHUH: (Foreign language spoken) 10 My name is Rich and I'm from this place, namely 11 Brattleboro. I serve on the Vermont Commission for 12 Native American Affairs. I work with the contemporary 13 Native community in the State of Vermont. I'm here as 14 spokesperson for the Elnu Abenaki Tribe, with the 15 backing of the Nulhegan and the Koasek.

16 Thank you for traveling here to the Land 17 of the People Separated, the southwestern most part of 18 Ndakinna, the Abenaki homeland.

19 As indigenous people, our concern is both 20 for the land and the people for they are the same. I 21 would like to open with a short perspective of how we 22 see this situation. You may not have heard this 23 before. I don't know. But I'd like to make three 24 brief comments, not questions just comments.

25 This -- tonight, this gathering is the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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130 1 latest step in a story that has been unfolding for 2 less than fifty years, blink of an eye. The spiritual 3 beliefs of the indigenous people tell us that time is 4 a whole, not a linear progression. We are all part of 5 the same. There is no separation from anyone or 6 anything else, no matter the time or the shape, only 7 a relationship in a different way of being in the 8 world.

9 Energy and matter are conserved, basic 10 physics. Everything matters. The past is always with 11 us and the future is now. We have a great 12 responsibility as Native people and hopefully as human 13 beings to honor these relationships and conduct 14 ourselves in a matter befitting our role in creation.

15 But now we have some new strange things, 16 things that have never been here before. Things that 17 we can't see, but they're still real. Radionuclides, 18 they're not a part of natural law. They have never 19 been here before in these quantities. They're 20 antithetical to life itself. They don't fit. They're 21 not part of the story, a story that's been going on 22 for millennia.

23 But yet, here they are. Somebody made a 24 decision to step outside of relationship and now we 25 have to live with it. The deliberations of the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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131 1 moment, today, the next few weeks, years, will be with 2 us for hundreds and thousands of years. Seems like a 3 long time and it is.

4 I ask you to remember that the Abenaki and 5 their ancestors have been in this land, the land where 6 Vermont Yankee sits, for twelve thousand years.

7 That's a long time. They've been flourishing 8 sustainably within the relationship. And with 9 thankfulness, we are still here. (language other than 10 English) as we say in our language. And we want to 11 honor this place, our homeland. We want the future 12 generations to be able to give thanks in the same 13 manner and enjoy these gifts, as well.

14 We ask that you make these decisions 15 regarding the disposition of this great incongruity 16 carefully. It affects everyone and everything. So 17 I'd like to make three short comments.

18 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Rich, they do have to be 19 short.

20 MR. HOLSCHUH: Okay. These are with 21 respect to the P.S.D.A.R. Vermont Yankee sits on an 22 ancient gathering place, a place for settlement, 23 gathering, fishing, working the land, performing 24 ceremony, and a final resting place when it came time 25 to walk on. The cultural significance of the site has NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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132 1 never been fully acknowledged.

2 I don't know if everybody knows this, but 3 that's the case. NorthStar should know this. The 4 original 1972 Atomic Energy Commission license for the 5 plant makes it very clear, stating, quote, no formal 6 archaeological survey was conducted at Vermont Yankee 7 Nuclear Power Station prior to initial construction.

8 And yet, for one example, historic newspaper accounts 9 record the unearthing of multiple indigenous burials 10 in the immediate area for the two hundred years 11 immediately preceding the facility.

12 I'll leave it at that. This needs to be 13 on the record.

14 The P.S.D.A.R. and the revised P.S.D.A.R.

15 merely quote the license that came before, and it's 16 all made up. It's a myth.

17 Second point. Environmental review 18 procedures that have been put in place at Vermont 19 Yankee Nuclear Power Station regarding undertakings 20 that involve land disturbing activities, this is 21 beyond decommissioning, undisturbed areas, require a 22 notification procedure involving the State Historic 23 Preservation Officer to establish the -- actions 24 necessary to protect known or undiscovered cultural 25 resources.

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133 1 This is going to carry through in site 2 restoration, as well. There is going to be a lot of 3 staging areas, a lot of storage areas beyond the 4 plant, itself. We request the tribes be included in 5 these procedures, going forward, and the protocols 6 that will accompany them.

7 And the last point, environmental justice, 8 Executive Order 12898 from 1994 directs Federal 9 executive agencies to consider environmental justice 10 under the National Environmental Policy Act. It is 11 designed to ensure low income and -- minority 12 populations do not experience a disproportionately 13 high and adverse human health or environmental 14 effects.

15 Now we all know where the nuclear waste 16 sites are. They are settled -- they are set in areas 17 with marginalized, usually indigenous people. While 18 you're considering how this is going to take place and 19 where these things are going to go, we want you to 20 know that we stand with these people, we ask that you 21 consider their lives equally and fairly as your 22 responsibility.

23 Thank you.

24 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you.

25 Peter Vanderdoes, and then Nancy Braus.

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134 1 MR. VANDERDOES: I think Nancy Braus has 2 left us.

3 Peter Vanderdoes from Brattleboro. First, 4 I'd like to thank Ms. O'Connor for her very concise 5 and intelligent question. Who will be left holding 6 the bag? And Senator MacDonald's point that the 7 people holding the bag will have empty pockets.

8 Mr. Leach, who was here earlier and spoke 9 so eloquently of Areva, I would like to point out some 10 of their shortcomings in cost and time overrides. The 11 Flamanville Nuclear plant in France, which began 12 construction in 2007, was supposed to be finished in 13 2012, is still under construction today.

14 Initially, it was estimated at three point 15 five billion euros, but the cost has ballooned to ten 16 point five billion euros.

17 Another point is the Olkiluoto Nuclear 18 Power Plant in Finland, which Areva was working on, 19 was due to be finished in 2009. It is also still 20 under construction. And the initial cost has gone up 21 from three point five billion euros to eight billion 22 euros. The Finnish Electrical Utility, T.V.O., is 23 taking Areva to court.

24 I had a whole bunch of financial 25 information, which I was going to go through, but it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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135 1 was very lengthy. So I decided just to point out to 2 the Nuclear Regulatory Commission 10 C.F.R. 50.38, the 3 ineligibility of certain applicants. Any person who 4 is a citizen, national, or agent of a foreign country 5 or any corporation or other entity which the 6 Commission knows to be owned, controlled, or dominated 7 by an alien foreign corporation or foreign government, 8 shall be ineligible to apply for or obtain a license.

9 So I know that that's sort of pushed under 10 the rug because Areva has done a lot of work in the 11 United States. But I'm wondering why shouldn't an 12 American Corporation be doing that work? We need the 13 jobs.

14 Thanks very much.

15 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Peter.

16 Nancy Braus appears to have left the 17 building.

18 Is there anyone else who hasn't signed up 19 or I've missed you that would like to make a comment?

20 Yes, please come to the microphone.

21 MS. BURNETT: My name is Audrey Burnett.

22 I'm a member of the Vermont Yankee Decommissioning 23 Alliance. I understand that NorthStar is partnering 24 with the Texas-based W.C.S., to send our high-level 25 nuclear waste to a community in Andrews County, Texas.

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136 1 Our group, along with other citizen-based groups, 2 recently sponsored residents from Andrews County who 3 are very opposed to receiving our high-level nuclear 4 waste.

5 They are concerned that although they are 6 told this is interim storage, there is presently no 7 safe long-term plans for high-level nuclear waste 8 storage. They're concerned about environmental 9 impacts or potential terrorist attacks on this waste.

10 I mean, this is where they live and where they're 11 raising their children. They say that they had no 12 nuclear power plants and yet they're hosting our 13 waste.

14 I'd like everyone to consider what's being 15 proposed and the people that will be affected by our 16 poisonous waste for possibly generations to come.

17 Thank you.

18 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you very much.

19 Is there anyone else who hasn't made a 20 comment, but would like to? Yes, please come to the 21 microphone.

22 MR. ZALUZNY: Hi. Steve Zaluzny, resident 23 of Vernon, Vermont. Just quick, a little bit of 24 history. My father was a selectperson for years in 25 Vernon. He was there when they built the plant, along NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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137 1 with other select people, obviously. Spent a lot of 2 time and had a lot of late night meetings, one or two 3 o'clock in the morning, to deal with the nuclear power 4 plant coming to town.

5 So I don't want to bore you with too much 6 of that. But one of the promises that was made, 7 obviously and I don't know all the background or the 8 paperwork or the legal documents, but the people of 9 Vernon were promised that the nuclear waste would be 10 removed once the plant was shut down. So that 11 obviously has become an issue.

12 The -- the A.G. mentioned that, you know, 13 what -- what will happen after a certain year, fifty-14 two, or whatever as far as cost. And I guess before 15 I get done maybe that's the question I'd like 16 answered, you know, and who pays that cost of material 17 on-site as it goes beyond a certain point?

18 And then I want to speak a little bit 19 about just the idea of, you know, I'm a small 20 contractor, obviously, but certain things are also 21 relevant, small or big, as far as construction 22 contracts. One of the things, you know, if you're 23 doing a bonded job, obviously a bond sounds like a 24 good thing and it can be. But if there's any 25 disputes, a bond could be contested and then you're in NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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138 1 a legal situation trying to deal with it.

2 I guess, my comments in regard to a 3 contract are obviously up front you need to know what 4 the costs are. Okay? That's critical especially in 5 this case. So whoever we're going to trust, Public 6 Service or the NRC or whoever it is, we need to know 7 what the costs are accurately before the contract is 8 signed and the work is done.

9 Once that is established, a schedule of 10 values has to be set. That is basically what the cost 11 of each segment of the job will be.

12 Once the work proceeds, it is critical 13 that the contractor is paid accordingly to what work 14 is done as far as its value. If a contractor would be 15 overpaid, that's not a good situation. So that is why 16 whoever will oversee this is able to measure the work 17 that's done and that it's done properly. That way, if 18 a contractor defaults, there's still enough money left 19 to finish the work. So that is also critical.

20 So I think that's really important to any 21 contract. Obviously, this has nuclear waste involved, 22 but these requirements are -- are still relevant for 23 any contract. And I think that's what I, as a 24 resident of Vernon, want my government to do in this 25 situation, that they scrutinize and make sure that the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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139 1 contract is followed. And that's really going to make 2 this work. Whether it's done over six years or sixty 3 years that still has to happen to this -- for this to 4 work.

5 So now again to my question on storage, 6 whoever should try to answer that as far as cost and 7 who pays the cost of storage if it were -- if we don't 8 have a place to put nuclear waste, you know, in -- you 9 know, in the time span we're hoping that will happen.

10 MR. DUSANIWSKYJ: I recognize your concern 11 about spent fuel. And I want to remind everyone in 12 this room that we do not make policy as to what is 13 going to be the disposition of spent fuel. The 14 Nuclear Regulatory Commission only maintains that they 15 be held safely, securely, and all the other issues.

16 I can tell you that there's going to be 17 some point where if there is no resolution found for 18 spent fuel, there will be additional costs. But a lot 19 of things will have to transpire between now and then.

20 This is not something that's going to happen 21 overnight.

22 There is sufficient funding right now, 23 under the guidance given by the Department of Energy 24 -- and I grant you that the Department of Energy has 25 not had a very good track record as to what their NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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140 1 promises are or not. That's a fact. But there will 2 become a point, and I'm not going to deny it, that 3 sometime -- sometime, additional funding will have to 4 be found.

5 The problem that we're going to be having 6 is that they're not going to be necessarily popular 7 answers. The licensee would still be held responsible 8 for all costs because the license for the ISFSI or the 9 dry cask storage is not terminated until such time 10 that the fuel is removed.

11 So I cannot sit here and tell you what the 12 costs are to an infinite time. There's very little 13 way that I could do that for you. All I can say is 14 that if it's going to happen, the licensee will be 15 responsible for the cost.

16 Now, an added point to this, many of the 17 licensees have been suing the Department of Energy to 18 reclaim some of these costs, and they have been 19 winning in court. There's also been, unfortunately, 20 not necessarily a very good payment on these 21 judgments.

22 I don't have answers to what's going on 23 with the Department of Energy. All I can tell you is 24 that the Nuclear Regulatory Commission does not make 25 that policy. So one way or the other, as we've been NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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141 1 talking about throughout the evening, the licensee is 2 responsible for the costs until the license is 3 terminated completely.

4 MR. ZALUZNY: Okay. Thank you very much.

5 I appreciate your answer.

6 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. I think there 7 was one more person who wanted to comment? Yes?

8 MS. OLSON: I was reluctant to come up 9 because I --.

10 CHAIR O'CONNOR: You have to introduce 11 yourself.

12 MS. OLSON: Oh, I'm sorry. I'm Tina 13 Olson. And I live in Brattleboro. I came here from 14 New York City. I've been here three years. I grew up 15 in Massachusetts. But I belong here. This is --

16 these are my people. This is my land. I love the 17 Connecticut River. And I'm a music therapist and so 18 of all the details that is involved here I don't know 19 much.

20 But what I hear is that we share a future.

21 And I think, probably deep down, all of us love the 22 land. So it seems to me, after listening, this comes 23 down to a commitment to do the absolute best to save 24 the land and ourselves and the future.

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142 1 isn't a satisfactory way to store this terrible --

2 curse in a way. So -- and I felt like I do need to 3 say something in honor of our democracy. And I 4 appreciate all of us here together, which I think deep 5 down we share the same desire and that we can come 6 together and hear each other so.

7 I don't normally do this, but I felt that 8 I need to speak. And I think all I can say is let us 9 do the best we can in a way, even if it is the most 10 expensive, and even if it takes a long time because we 11 do love the land and our people. Thank you.

12 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you very much.

13 Is there anyone else in the public that 14 wants to make a comment or has a question? All right.

15 Thank you so much.

16 I want to thank -- we're not done the 17 meeting. But I want to thank the public for coming 18 this evening. I think it was important and it was 19 because of the public that we asked the NRC to come 20 here this evening. So I want to thank all of you for 21 showing up. And it's -- I think it's very instructive 22 for us as a Panel to hear what -- what you're thinking 23 and what your thoughts and concerns are because that's 24 part of what we -- we like to know, as well.

25 Just a little bit of housekeeping, if you NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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143 1 want to make a comment and you didn't want to do it in 2 this forum or you go home tonight and you think of 3 something that you want to say, the NRC is accepting 4 comments on the license transfer until June 23rd. And 5 again, you can go on the NRC website or what we'll be 6 doing is emailing you out --.

7 MR. PARROTT: Kate, could I -- this is 8 Jack Parrott over here in NRC --

9 Could I elaborate on that?

10 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yes -- yes.

11 MR. PARROTT: -- public comment part?

12 Yesterday, we published our Federal 13 Register notice that it offers that opportunity. And 14 I just want to make sure you know that it's -- the 15 website to do that is W W W dot regulations dot gov.

16 And you use the docket number NRC dash 2017 dash zero 17 one two five. And all that information is in the 18 Federal Register notice.

19 I don't know if it's -- if it's possible 20 if you could put that Federal Register notice, maybe, 21 on your website, it might make it easier for people to 22 find information.

23 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Yes, we will. We'll put 24 that on this -- our Panel has a site on the State of 25 Vermont's website, located on the Public Service NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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144 1 Department site. And what we'll do is we'll make sure 2 that that link is on it. And I'll make sure that we 3 email out to everybody what that email address is and 4 what the link is. So we'll push the information out 5 as much as we can so that everybody has that 6 information.

7 There was a question earlier about where 8 people can find the slides from tonight's 9 presentations. And there are two places. Entergy has 10 a website, V Y decommissioning dot com. And again, 11 it's also on the State of Vermont's Public Service 12 Department website. And the Nuclear Decommissioning 13 Citizens Advisory Panel has our own site there. So if 14 you're looking for that, you can find it.

15 The meeting will be re-broadcast on 16 B.C.T.V., if you want to watch it on your television 17 or you can see it any time online. So anything you 18 wanted, you can rewatch the meeting at two in the 19 morning if you -- if you have nothing else to do and 20 you can't sleep.

21 I want to thank -- before we -- before we 22 do a little bit more housekeeping on the Panel, I do 23 want to thank the representatives from the NRC for 24 coming. And I want to thank Scott State and Mike 25 Twomey for coming. We appreciate it very much.

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145 1 And I think somebody said this may be the 2 last time we ever see the NRC. And I don't think 3 that's true because there are other issues that are 4 going to be coming up. And I had a conversation with 5 them, prior to this meeting, and there may be other 6 reasons for them to come up and fill us in on what's 7 going on. So we -- we appreciate that offer, as well.

8 The next NDCAP meeting is, at this point, 9 scheduled for June 22nd. We have confirmed that 10 representatives from Holtec, they are the company that 11 is doing the transferring of the fuel from the spent 12 fuel pool, to the second dry cask storage pad. They 13 have confirmed that they will be coming to the 14 meeting.

15 We also have confirmation that 16 representatives from Areva, which is one of the 17 partners with NorthStar, will be coming to the 18 meeting. There is a chance, based on everybody's 19 schedule, we're dealing with a lot of people, that 20 that meeting may be pushed back a week. And this is 21 news to some people in the room here, so I apologize 22 for springing it on you.

23 So I'm going to be sending an email out to 24 the Panel and to all the people that are impacted if 25 we change the date and see if that's a changeable date NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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146 1 or not. And what we do for all of you here is we post 2 all the information, the days and times and places of 3 our meetings, again on the State of Vermont website.

4 And we also email it out so we get it out as much as 5 possible.

6 So tentatively, put June 22nd, but it may 7 be bumped back a week, depending on the logistics of 8 doing that.

9 I don't know if anyone else on the Panel 10 wants to say anything before we adjourn our meeting?

11 No? Everybody is going no. So again, I want to --.

12 SENATOR MACDONALD: I'm sorry. Say that 13 again, Madam Chair?

14 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Does anyone want to say 15 anything before we adjourn the meeting? Oh, yes, we 16 got to give you a microphone, Senator.

17 SENATOR MACDONALD: Madam Chair, public 18 policy and decisions of this sort are best made when 19 there are clear rules of what happens in the future.

20 And the NRC's job or the Congress' job is to make it 21 clear who is responsible if such -- if this goes 22 forward.

23 Many of us, including myself, would like 24 to see the money spent sooner, rather than later. But 25 if the NRC is not telling us who's responsible if a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

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147 1 good faith project comes up short and the answer is 2 we'll find out when it happens, what use is the NRC?

3 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Does anyone else on the 4 Panel want to make a comment?

5 Yes, Steve?

6 MR. SKIBNIOWSKY: Steve Skibniowsky here.

7 I'd like to just certainly thank all the 8 panelists and NRC. that are here this evening. But I 9 would also like to remind the panelists that during 10 the presentations, during the public comments and so 11 forth, it would be most courteous to refrain from 12 talking and essentially ignoring what the individuals 13 are saying, until they're finished speaking.

14 And I think it's a matter of common 15 curtesy in a public forum like this and I would like 16 to remind all of my fellow panelists that that, at 17 least, is the type of protocol that I'm familiar with 18 and would certainly support in the future.

19 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you, Steve.

20 Any other comments or questions from 21 anyone on the Panel?

22 All right. Again, thank you all for 23 coming.

24 David Andrews has made the motion to 25 adjourn. Does anyone second that motion?

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148 1 UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER: Second.

2 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Everybody seconds that 3 motion.

4 All those in favor?

5 THE PANEL: Aye.

6 CHAIR O'CONNOR: Thank you. We're 7 adjourning and thank you so much, everyone, for 8 coming.

9 (The meeting adjourned at 9:36 p.m.)

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