ML20126E919
| ML20126E919 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Three Mile Island  |
| Issue date: | 02/11/1981 |
| From: | NRC - ADVISORY PANEL FOR DECONTAMINATION OF TMI UNIT 2 |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 8103040869 | |
| Download: ML20126E919 (57) | |
Text
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+1 NCCLEAR REGULATORT CCMMISSICN~
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IZL tins h oft MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PANEL FOR THE DECONTAMINATION OF THREE MILE ISLAND UNIT 2
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c DATE:Jabruary 11, 1981 s
PAGES: 1 thru 53 '
.J AT: Earrisburg, Pennsylvania 9
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1 MEETIN~ CF THE ADVISCRY PANEL 2 ICE THE 3 DECCNTAMINA'"!CN 07 CHEEE E!LE ISLAND UN!! 2 4
5 U E D f3 E c"J A Y , IE?EUAEY 11, 1981 6 '
Forum of tha Educatien Building 7
Commonwealth't 'ainut 4 Streets 6 Harrisburg, P enn sylva nia.
9 Tha. Advisory ?an+1 on the Decentamination of TM! ,
10 Unit 2 convened, cursuant to no tice, at 7410 p.m. l 11 12 pavyt MTvnt:5 ?????"T4 13 Jong MINFIC2, Chairman ;
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- e. m e na .% a 2 CHAIRMAN MINNICHs ?anel me=hers, it does a; pear 3 like we may have a problem getting a quorum tonight which 4 means that we vili not be able to take any formal action.
5 So I would make a reconmende. tion to you as 6 Chairman. There are some folks in the audience who would
. 7 like to address the panel. Since we would'be taking those 8 remarks down, even thougn there is not a quorum hare, we 9 could'give that opportunity to the folks and it could be 10 recorded and then transmitted of course routinely to the ,
11 sembers who are not here.
12 'Jould anyone object to my doing that?
13 o ahead, Occtor.
14 ZE. ? ALIAOI%s ir. Chairman, do yeu have an7 15 further comments or infornttion about the makeup of the 16 committee? i 17 ORA!ENAN MINFICHs First of all, I ha ve written to 18 the Governor and I have written to John Ahearne. I talked 19 to John today lata this afternoon and he told me he would 20 set an answer to the panel as quickly as possible. Ha did
. 21 not indicate yet axactly what direction he vculd take.
22 Of course, as I told a reporter, and there was a 23 sto ry in the local paper this morninr, I do not rare this ;
24 partienis momant to discuse my letter to the Covaraor 25 because ! vant him to have time to receive it of course and I
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u 1 respond ac:ordingly. So we vill avait that he;;ening and 2 hopefully'ty next Thur: day I vill have those responses.
3 (Panel iember '4agner joins panel sembers at this 4 point.)
5 IMAI22 AN YINilIC*i : ~, cod evening, *2enry, glad to
. .i 6 see you here.
7 I had a discussion today, as we discussed on the ,
8 telephone, and that is a var 7 viable alternative and if we 9 ;et a quorum ! think it.'is one of the two' items.that we to should cover tonight. L 11 Anythin; else fron the panel members before we 12 start?
13 (:fo response.) - -
r 14 CHAIRMAN 3!N '* ICR s If.not, if.there is any,one here ,
15 who caras to addr?ss the panel, please ;c to a nike, ;
4 16 identify yourself and your affiliation if there is any such .
t 17 in your ; ssentation and va vill be glad to hear what you.
18 have to say.
19 JR. 3ANIYa Al c.anik, Hiddletown, a member of i
20 ? AN E . I am quoting fren the New !crk Times, resta: day's 1
21 issue. }
22 "The Asse bly passed legislation today aimed at 23 i= posing more strincent safeguards on 0;erators of nucles:
24 pove ;1 ants, on the safety and trainin; of the peo:le who 25 run them and on the t:tnsportation of :2dioactive <
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5 1 s a t erials . The legislation would establish f or the first 2 time that the costs of an accident at a nuclear power plant 3 in the state be borne by the operators of the plant."
4 I don't want to read the rest of it. I think you-5 have got the sist of the story. I would like to see perhaps 6 soie follow-up done on it by this committee, have it passed 7 on to the ;overnor and passed on to the Legislature in 8 Harrisburg here since this is a problem.
9 As of tonight's paper it is creating a bigger 10 problem. Sew *e rsey has another plant down. I would like 11 to see some action along th ese lines.
12 I as not an axpert and I don't intend to be an 13 expert. However, we have enough experts that could put some 14 teeth into this.
15 Thank you.
16 IH A~IM A X . MIN FICH: A1, I a;;reciate your comments,
~ 17 but I heliave they are outside of the charge to this panel.
18 Our chstge is not to deal with legislation in the General 19 Assembly.
20 YE. MANIKs ! realire this. Perhaps we could get 21 to the ':overnor and get to the legisic. tors and they may be 22 interested in 1 coking into this.
23 Ihank you.
24 CH AIH A J !'IUNICF Tou are welcome.
25 Is there anyone else in' the audience who would ALOER$oN REPORTING CCMPANY. INC.
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2 7OICEs I as a re;orter and I have sone -questions. i 3 CHAIR 3A5 ZINSICE. ' If you don't mind then) if you i
'4 are in that capacity I would def er you.. to - the general :ank - ,
5 and file in the audience if I =ay.
I 6 Acain, if there is anyone in the sudience who :
1 7 cares to address the panel. There were several who 8 . approached me af ter la st week's meeting and said they would 9 like to comment on scae of the recommendations, the
-t 10 resolutions, or whatever we want to call them, that we '
11 attespted to address last week. The eppertunity is here and ;
12 if anyone cares to connent this is the time. ;
13 If not, and ! se9;co.one, you may come up and we ,
t 14 vill be glad to try to answer your questicar. j l
15 Off the reco rd.
16 (Discussion off the :ecord.)
17 OH AI23A5 !!!i:!ICH: One. thing, Bill, I do commend :
u 18 the folks who 2et these transcripts out. It was very.proupt 19 and, as far ac sy mencry cerves me, it was very accur2te. )
20 Really I appreciate it and I ss sure the rest of the ;anel r
21 sembers do.
22 We only have four and th a t is three cher of what 23 we had determined would'be s :;uorun and that is ' a p ro blem .
24 TA!OE MORE!5: 7 . Chair:an, in rect:d to tnat, I ;
25 don't necessarily and I an not ic or.i n g for na:ec tonicht of k
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1 peo ple that . didn ' t call, but you did mentic a that there were 2 a few people who called you. I would assume there were some 3 that did not call you.
4 I am wondering, since we didn't have a cuorum 5 tonight, whether or not some thought could be given,for the 6 next meeting to establishing some kind. of rules of notifying 7 the Chairman if they can't make it in enough time so that 8 you can, if necessary, cancel the meeting so we don't come 9 and many p=ople in the audience don't come. .
10 CHAIRZAN ZINNICMs 5111, I wonder if next Thursday 11 mornine you micht have someone make a quick check with the 12 members and determine, you know, how r.any definitely will be 13 attending so that we could make that determination early P
14 enough.
15 You are right. There were only two who called of 16 the five who are not here. There were only two who called 17 to advise me that they would not be able to make it.
I 18 The initial co-round when these d ates were set, 19 the indicate was that ve vould be able to have s quoru:.
I 20 MR. TRAY?RS: 'ie do two rounds of questioning.
I 21 First of all, we ask vnat ?.ates might be convanient for 22 panel members and then ve.have panel members agrwe upon 23 those days which they believe they can attend. n this case.
24 I think there were sevaral of the people at least who 25 thoucht they could maka it and obviously couldn't for l t
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I 1 whatever raason.
2 TAYO3 30REIS: -I realire ~there is a problem with 3 the state's position and I know that we den 't want to speak 4 to th a t tonight.. But'as long as there are only nine members 5 it is coing to be tough maybe to get seven out of.those nine , t 6 on a regular basis.
7 OHAIBMAN MINNICH: It.sure is and I apologize for.
8 not addressing that at the last meeting when we realired 9 there would only be nine. It just got away from me.
to Perhaps we ought to at least temporarily move that down to 11 five but that wouldn 't even give us a quorum tonight.
12 YR. WAGNER: Mr. Chairman.
13 CHAIE5A4 MINN!CHs' Yes,' Henry. .
14 3R. WAG" irs Would it be ;ossible just.to proceed .
15 as if we had a quorus but we vouldn't be able to take any 16 definitive actien?
17 OHAIEXAM UINNICHs I wouldn't have any objection 18 to that.
l 19 TR. VAGNIEs We have the three members that are 20 not voting'and we have enough people here I think to do 21 something worthwhile.
22 CHA!3 MAN MINNICHs I hate to drae Or. Falladino 23 down here all the way from State College and you u; from 24 3altimore and 'ill from wh9rever in the tecndecks he comes 25 from ---
ALDER $cN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
400 VIRGMA AVL 3.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) $$4 2346
1 9 i 1 (laughter.)
2 CHA;33A3 3I,wiIc3 --- and everybody else and then !
3 not do anything.
Ihat migh t' be a good suggestion and I 4 would-just sin;17 say-if cene of the zesbers present object i
5 sarbe we can precaed on that basis, put things in tha record 4 6- and then those folks who weren' t _ here tonight can_ pick that ,
s 7 up when they get the transcript. If they object to anything S they can let us know and we vill attempt to do.that the 9 first thing next Th u rsd a y . ,
1 to YAYOE 5033!St I hav? no objections-as long-as 11 everybody realires tha t I will be leaving here about 5:30. !
12 I had heard that there ver+ coing to be stores in Marrisburg ,
r 13 so I took the t sin and the last one out of here is nine.
14 CHAIRMAW.3INNICE Yes, and Or. Palladino wants to ;
15 start back to Itate College. If seneone vill keep an eye on :
16 their watch and let se know when it is eight o' clock so va :
17 can vra; it up, why we vill do just t at.
18 Henry, I am intrigued with your pec;osal. I have 19 spoken to John Ahaarne aho;t it. $
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20 15. FALLADINC: Yould you identify what proposal? )
21 CHA!23AN 3:NNICHs This is the _ ; opesal Henry j I think he mentioned at last i 22 b ro ugh t to ny attention.
23 week *s neetinc that the NEC has said to Met. Ed. that it is l i
24 possible that tha low-level vaste in the resi.-- state could ,
25 be shi;;ed in its ; resent ctate withcut seine selidified if ,
1 ALDERSCN AEPCRUNG COMPANY. INC.
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10 1 th=y meet the standards. '" h a t is a very viable alternative 2 that would probably be received well by the NEC.
3 He indiested to me, sad I made come' notes and I
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4 don't know what I did with them, and I apologire for that, 5 that it really is up to Met. Ed. to make the propossi. Gale 6 told me that they are prepared, they have a draf t prepared 7 to make that request to get some of tha t vaste off of the 8 island. -
9 I think the' recommendation of Henry, and Henry I P
to will give you the mike in just a moment, that we take a 11 position on this urging the movement of some of that waste 12 off of the island. to at lesst nake that much of a good faith 13 effort would .be an app'ropriate thing. ,
14 Go'shead, Henry. .
15- MR. WAGNIR: ' Jell, we did star: to discuss this 16 the last time. As'Mr. Hovey pointed out, there are 17 approximately 20 containeer of low-level waste and abcut 50 18 containers of high-level vaste that are in the stronage 19 calls on Three Mile Island. .
20 Since it is acceptable at tha present ti.te for 21 commercial reactorr to ship devatered recins sr long as they 22 are in suitable container: to commercial burial cites, it 23 seemed to se that it would certainly be a stap forwsed if 24 these 20 or se resins vocid be shi;pe* off as soon ss 25 possible.
ALDEft$oN ACPoRTING COMPANY. INC.
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l 1 It vould requira a s;ecific vaiver on the part of-2 the NRC. But it seemed from the latter that it. Ahearne had ;
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3 written tha t they si;h t be favorably inclined toward doing 4 that.
5 I thought th s t , although it. is certainly only a
'6 first step, it would be a significant first step in getting 7 solid vaste off of Three lile Isiand. It perhaps should be 8 done ex;editiously '3ecause there are goin; to be changes in i
9' ' the reculations that are occurring in July.-
- 10 CHAIRMAN ZISN!CH4 In addition-to that, I believe
' 11 that some of the sites will no longer be available after i
12 July ist.
13 MR. ?AL1ADINCs Dr..;ager, do you have a specific 14~ recommendation that we perhaps micht' ensider to su;; ort the 15 idea you have?
16 MR. W AG!f E? s Although we 1,Cn't have s quorum to ;
17 vote on it tonight, I would :ecommend that in view of the fset tha t I beli?ve tha t the ;otential hazard of i 18 4
19 solidification on site would he 7: eater than the very small l 20 - hazard of shi;;ing these containere under ;ro;e: l 21 circumstanens.to a shallow burial-cite that that should be ,
22 done ri;ht away or as soon-as possible.
23 Thersfore, ! would scommend that the VEC consider -l 24 givin; a valver to Set. Ed. to obviate the need to fix i 25 solidification of'thesa resins of the low-level vaste ;rior T
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1 to shipment off of Three Mile Island. !
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2 CHAIE5AN MIN 3ICH: Henry, I am under the 3 impression after my discussion that the HEC v111'icok with 4 favor on such a proposal, but I would suggest that your i
5 recommendation be worded that net. Id. make an immediate _
6 request as promptly'as porsible meeting cenditions to the 7 NRC with the understanding that such shipment must provide 8 adequate protection, proper packaging'and no leakage because 9 if a container would get to Hanford, for instance, and it 10 was found that it was leaking they would not accept it. So ,
11 they would have to bring it all the way back and that would 12 be worst perhaps than leavinc it sit down there. Io if you 13 ' could deal with it from tha t direction. .
14 %R . '4 AGNIR : That is fine. That werdine ir 15 certainly acce ptable tc me.
16 MR. ARX010 Bob Arnold from Met. Ed. If I am out 17 of order, why tell me and I will sit down.
18 CHAIRMAN MINNICH: Go ahead.
19 53. AENCIDs I think it is worthwhile noting for 20 the benefit of the panel in icoking this th a t Met. id .
21 originally designed the I;icora 2 system snd that processing 22 so that ths liners as they are presently constituted would 23 seet all requistions for shi;pino. Ihey have to be rhipped 24 in licensed containers but that is ty;ical for c her 25 operatin; ;1stts.
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400 VIRGINtA AVE., S.W. WASHINGTC., 0.c. 20024 (202) '54-2345
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1 The equirement to solidify _vas initiatad'by the 2 Nuclear Regulatory Comrission. Those liners can still be 3 shipped as is f ully in confor?.ance 'with the regulations and 4' for the 22:or so that Dr. Wagner mentioned consistent with 3
5 what they tre doing from other operating plants.
6 So it may not be entirely inappropria te f e rt the 7- panel to consider making the recommendatica to the.:inclear 8 'Reguintory Commission'since tha t is where the whole thing 9 originated.
10 CHAIRMAN !!NN!CHs That is a good point, Bob, and 11 I ^4111 tack off of that. That is true, we'can't advise Met.
L 12 Ed. but we can advise as were constituted the NIC. So i
13 perhaps it shculd be to the lIEC.
14 TAYC? 20?RIS: 'dr. Chairman. ;
15 CHAIRMAN M!NNICH: Yas.
16 YAYCP JO93ISs 3eforo you back off, I am trying to 17 find in the minutes of the last meeting and I am'not having 18 much success ---
19 CHAIRMAN 3 INN!CHs Pages 76 through 35. ;
20 !AYO3 303RI5s I had tho ug h t that we were going to l 21 vait until such times as we got a copy of the proposal from 22 Met. Ed . I think Dean Palladino at that point said that he i 23 hoped we weren't going to have to review a lot of these
! 24 proposals. : va s hoping ~ tha t tha t was goin; to be a sSert 25 thing for us to rrries before ve r3com" tended that the 'TEC b
Al.DERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,!NC, 400 VIRGIN 4A AVE., S.W WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2346
14 1 approve it because I had thought that "ayor Feld would.at 2 least want to see the.tranrportation routes and 3 what-have-you.
4 Acain, 27. memory might not be right in that, but I ;
5 thought we got into this very question and thought we would 6 wait on approving it until we saw thei: proposal in writing 7 from Met. Ed. to the NBC.
8 CH AIRMAS 3I'.iNICH: Well, I see here on page 79 9 9 that Dr. Palladino said he is a little concerned. let's 10 see. "I would like to see them get off the island just as 11 sosa as cossible s quick ss we can."
12 I know there was a discussion a point in the
. 13' manner in whien you are s;eaking but ! a: no,t sure it was 14 applied to this om ticular point. .
15 f3. WAG;EE: :ir. Chairman. .
16 CHAIRMAN MINNICH: !=s.
17 M3. WAGNI?: As I under tand it, we wo uld not be 18 approving or reco= mending a;;roval of the mechanica by which 19 the material was to be removed. The only thing we would be 20 recommendine would be that there be a waiver of the 21 solidification requirement. So I think the issue really 22 involves the solidification issue rather than things such'as 23 how it is packaged or what particular route the materit1 24 would take and what particular safeguards veuld be followed 25 and where it sas coing to go.
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15 1 It applies solely to our recognizing' that we 'think ' <
2- 'that particularly because of the urgency of makino some' t
- 3. initial progress at Three ille Island that they not[have !
4 sore stringent engulations than are. applied to operating . f 5 plants at the present time. 'It has nothing.to do with-6 - routes or it ~ has nothing to do .vith eventual ~dispesal sites I 7 other than it'vould be a commercial 1r acceptable turial' site.
8 ME. GI?USKYs Except that that recommendation-
' 9 should stipulate that the container or outside' container,.
,1 10 the shielding, be in conformity wi th the'-proper regulations 11 and that all ;rovisions ta tak+n to prevent leakace like you 12 earlier said. I: lockr like it is .fuct a blanket approval ,
t 13 to go snd it isn't~ for these containers, I don't believe. l
- 14. They are not normal containers f rom a normal cparsting ' power 'i 15 plant. Ihey are from.Three' Mile Is!.and'and they tre:using a 16 process than is normally used in a 'Jucles: Power Plant. ,
17 XE. MGNIR4 I agree ant. additienal ; ecautions 18 would perhsps te necessary in transporting it.
l 19 X3. GIEUSKYs Eut those a s required by ::#C.
p 20 ,f i . 'iAGPERs I agree totally. It seemed to me 21 though that we sieht make some procress if we could get some 22 indication that the !12C and Chairman Ahearne would be -l 23 ' willing to waive this solidification requirement. ,
i 24 hen next February-the 19th, nex* Th::cday, it is l
l 25 sy understanding also, Mayo: Morris, it ir my.unds:standin; l
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16 1 tha t Met . Ed. Will present a specific proposal and a >
c 2 specific request for a valver. But I thcucht that if even 3 the members who are here tonight could come to come judgment 4 as to whether we think the solidification rule might be 5 valved that this coulf be discussed again with Chairman 6 Ahearne prior to the time we get this proposal on the 15th.
7 MAYOR MORRIS: Page 84 .
8 CHAIR 3Ad 3IN3 ICE: Ihe Mayor's memory is much 9 better than the Chairman's. On page 54 ve did have a 10 dircussion concerning this very. thing and we tacitly agreed 11 that Yet. Id. would be in a position to submit a copy of 12 thier ;:oposal to us by the 10th.
13 Is that righ t, 3ot? . - .
14 XE. ARNOLD: Yes, that is correct. 7e do 15 anticipate having the review of our submittal completed by 16 the 19th. If we make that schedule, which we vill certainly L
17 do our best to, we vill provide a copy to the ;anel.
I 18 CHAIRMAN MINNICH. Fine. Ihank you, ?ob. We 19 def erred to make the decisicn until the 19th when they have 20 the plan.
! 21 ME. GERUSKY Z:. Chairman, I think that we are i
22 maybe biting off more than we can chev. Th e Y e t . Id.
23 proposal vill require an engineering evaluation to determine 24 whether the packa:ing and to forth meets the requirements, 25 is safe enough for transport of this material. Ihat is not ALDER $oN REPCRTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W. WASHINGTON. 0.C. 20024 (202) 554 2344
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17 1 for us to decide. Tha t is for NRC to decide.
2 I think we'can initially before the meeting 3 something which urges 'the. Commission to take a very hard 4 look at. exempting.them from that requirement provided the l 5 shipment can te made safely. That is all that needs to be ,
t 6 .done. ;
7 CH AIE3 A;i ~ !!IN N!CH s I think that is the intent-8 here. We are not really, I don't believe,. intending t'o 9 approve- their plan. I. agree with you, I don't think we s
-10 would he in tha t. position. I think that th e' inten t is to 11 urge the SRC to grant'this waiver if Met. Ed. meets the >
12 standards of adequa te ;rotection, good packacing, no 13 leakage, et cetera. That would be up to the.U.C to 14 determine whether er not tney meet these standardc.
15 Ve are rayinc if they. meet the standards grant the 16 valver and get the vaste off of the island. ,
17 (Panel 'dember Kche doins the ;anel at this poin t. )
i 18 OH AIR'! AN MINNICH: Hi, Jean. Te now have a fifth 19 member. t 20 32. WILL!AMSGN 3r. Chairman, do we know as a l 21 fact that this material vill be accaptable at Hanford? :
22 OHAIRMAN 3IN '!ICH : It is my understanding until at 1 23 least July 1st.
24 Can you cocreet me if I am wrong on this, 3111, !
25 that it is acceptable if it mee ts the proper standards. c ALCER8eN REPORTING CoWPANY. INC.
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1 12. TRAVIRS4 ! believe that is right.
2 :gA:35AN MIN:;ICH Ies, Gale.
3 53. ROVEY: To clarify it, yes, it is our belief 4 that the 22 intermediate and low-level I;icore 2 liners ,
5 which are lika normal reactor plsnt :ssins, are very simila:
6 in curie loadings and such. :!e feel that, yes, they will tre 7 acca;tsble at Hanford. The problem is the othe: 50, the 8 prefilte:s.
9 CH AIi3 AN E!!iHICH: We haven't atten;ted to deal to with the othe: 50 for obvious reasons f ce Dr. Cunningham's 11 presentation to us.
12 1E. PA11ACINO: Mr. Chairman, I would pro;cce that 13 maybe we consider a recommendation that micht te 3ade and 14 might ;o to DCI in which we asX OCE to give p cept attantion-15 to the interin storage off the T3I to site of the 7:icere 2 ,
18 ;;efilters and these are the ones that have the high :
17 r ad io a ctivity , pending ultimate dispositics of these resins.
18 I think that the panol cculd be of great 19 assistance if it vould take a st::nq stand ureing 00E to get 20 with it snd get a resciutin to the interin ste: age of these 21 resins se we don't hava to keep the: en the Three Mile ,
22 Island site.
23 CEA!I%AN % INN!CH: Oceter, vas really tninking ,
+
24 in the back of ny nind of ;;c;osin; at next Chursday's
'25 mee tine tha t a number cf the ;anel vould join =e ;ers: ally ALCEASON REPCRTING COMPANY. INC.
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r 19 1 on a trip to Washington, D. C. and with 3111's help a :ange 2 a meeting with the proper officials from the OCI and some 3 p,ople on the Congressional level-f:cm the respective 4 committees and present persona 117 as a group f cm this panel t
5 our concerns and the need for ecogeration in'doing something 6 with that particular waste.
'7 : just feel that it might be better to make a -
8 personal appearance down there and do it that way and then ,
9 follow up perhaps.
10 MR. PALLA0INC: ! have no quarrel with what you 11 sto suggesting excect tha t ! do think it wo uld be verth i 12 get ting the panel to take the position that if we feel'it ;
2 13 deserves prompt attention by CsI, if that is the proper 14 agency and I beliave it is, .I think va- oucht to ex; ess it ,
15 and get some pressure behind actice on thei: part.
16 CHAIEXA't '!!N 5 ICH : Yes.
17 53. 4AG!iEE: 3r. Chairman.
I 18 CHA 3%A:l !!!NICHs Y e .e . l 19 "R. '4AGFER: I think Dean 7alladii2o was referring 20 to the hi7h-level waste. !
21 CHA 3 MAN MINNICE: Yes, he is.
i 22 X2. WAGNIR: If possible, I think since we have 23 five embers here we have 3/9ths and isn't that a quor:27 24 CHA!?.MAY 3I'INICE: It is.
25 3 2. 'J AO::IE If so, ! veuld like to :ake a :otion :
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20 I 1 and dayor horris will second it with respect to the j 2 low-level vaste if that is acce ptable.
3- CHAIRMAN MIN 9ICHs ! agree with you. I don't know 4 if'it would be necessary to put the quorum into a sotion.
. 5 We had set'seven but obviously that was. based'on a 12-member 8 panel. We only have nine and we have five here and again I :
7 vocid raise the same question. If none of ' the panel members 8 object, I would like to consider the five as a quorum so '
9 that we can proceed with some motions and other 10 considerations tonicht.
11 Any objections?
12 3AYOR NORRISs No objections as long as when-I t -
13 leave I am not accused of .h reskinc- the q uorum. !
14- (laughter.) ,
15 CHAIR 3AN MI'INICHI Wa vill all leave tocether, is Mayor.
17 (Laughter.)
18 CHAIRMAN MINNICH4 Ihat being the case, do you 19 vant to make your motion now? .
~
20 43. WAGNIR4 I would like to move that cur panel L
21 recommend to Chairman Ahearne of the :iRC that he consider 22 vaiving the r*quirenent for solidification of the low-level 23 waste that is scv stored on Ihree ?.ile Island to' facilitate 24 its shipment to a comnercini burial site provided that the 25 containers ?.eet all the requirements of the FRC with : aspect I
i A&.DERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE. $,W,, WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) 564 2346 ,
21 1 to avoidance of leakage, rafe transportation, shielding and 2 other practutions.
3 3AYC3 E023IS: I would second that motion.
4 OHAIB5AN 3INNICH: There is a motion and a second.
5 Door anyone have any discucrion?
6 (No response.) ,
7 CHAIRMAJ ZIH3 ICE: 'If not, ! vill poll it 8 backwards..
9 Are there any dissenting ve'tes to that motion?
10 35. KOHE: John, let se just make one comment I i
11 instead of a dissentin; vote.
12 CHAIEEAN HINNICH: Certainly.
13 35. ZOHR * ' I was present at a meeting of the 14 Vuelear Pegulatory Commission in Cetober of 1979 when a 15 group of middle-level technical peop*e in the "EC staff who 16 were very concerned thout the ability of the Epicore 2
' 17 system to immobilize vasta convinced snree Commissioners to I
18 support this requirement of solidication in cement.
19 Now, that concept behind that at that time was l 20 that recognizing the need to immobilire these vastes the 21 feeling was tha t the vs.ste would be better immobilized if 22 thay were soliiified in cement.
23 In inct at that meeting 3cb Arneli sssured the 24 Cossission that ?st. Ed. would develop a satisfactory 25 solidification ;rocra: in about six months. ' Jell, that was i
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1 October of '79 and of course L'et. Ed. hasn't done anything 2 on tha t since then.
3 I think it is very important that the committee 4 recognire as background for this vote on this metion that 5 the Brookhaven National Lab has done studies on 6 solidification in cement of these wastes and we now know -
7 that even cement is not going to immobilire these cesiums.
8 It is in the centext of that back groun d 9 recognizing thct we simply haven't found any way-te 10 immobilire th re casium in these vastes that it is s sad point 11 that we have come to but it is better to get these thinos 12 off the island at this poin t thsn just let then sit there.
13 . C H A 3 H A~.'i P.IN "ICH : I think the real bottom line 14 concern is that if we can do something that in a sense leads 15 to sone positive action being taken in removing these vastes 16 it will be a good sign for everybcdy. I appreciate your 17 background on that.
18 As ! said, and I gave yc u th e pages there, we had 19 discussed this to some extent at the last meeting and I have 20 talked to John Ahearne and it sppears that the Comnission 21 would be arreeable to granting this waiver. Th a t is why the 22 proposal is before us.
23 13. ? A11 AOI?!C a 3r. Chairman, I also recall from 24 the visit of Yr. Cunningham wherein he indicated that these t
25 can be safaly trsnsported if they use high intecrity l
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23 1 containers for shipment. ~,o I would support the :otion.
2 CH AIRMAN MINNICH: I take it then there are no 3 dissenting votes on the notion and I can cast a unanimous 4 vote ou tha notion.
5- (!io response.)
6 CHAIEMAN MINNICH4 Cksy.
7 ,
The other ites that we said we would discuss a tonight, and, Bill, thank you for pulling these out of the 9 t=snscript, is paga 2 of the snyopsis that 3111.gave us, to " Subjects Draft Version of ?snel Reco mendations Approved 11 on February 4," was Recommendation 6 and the values tha t we 12 would set a ceiling on in this decontaninated water.
13 Doctor, I think you were going to do some further 4
14 research on that. -
15 M3. PALLADINCs Mr. Chairman, I went over the 16 number and talke?. to several colleagues. I think we have 17 to combine numbers with the words and then I think I would 18 have no problem with it.
19 Tor example, the recommendation ! vould suggest 20 read tha t the total inventory of the principal radionuclides 21 of concern in the processed water upon completion of the 22 processing just before disposition should not be allowed to 23 exceed, and then the parenthetical statement (and should be 24 reduced as far below these limits as practical).
25 The point being that I understand during the ALDER $oN RE*oRTING COMPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WA$HINGToN. O.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
23 1 processing these tanks may get above these linits but they 2 would be. polished so that they would not be above these 3 limits when they are about to dispose of the water however 4 ve decide to dispose of it.
5 So I would proposo those words.
6 Then the numbers that were proposed would I 7 believe be quite acce ptable, although as I reacall,' Tom -
8 Cochran, Dr. Cockran had .cu;gested getting :14 of the 9 tritium limits since ve have no control over it.
10 CHAIRMAN MINNICH You are co rrect. He did say -
11 that. .
12 MR. PALLACINO So I would propose that we go with ,
13 this table using the verds I suggested.
14 ,
There is ene point that was made'to ne by Mr.
15 Hovey in ene conversation ! had with him. He says that we 16 oucht to perhaps make some allevances for different t
17 concentrations of'particular radionuclides so that if there i
18 is some variation that as lonc ss the net effect on the 19 environment is not 7: eater than that from the snounts listed i 20 that it would be okay. Perhaps that is too fine a point for 21 our recommendation.
22 I was going to propose that we ;o with the 23 sentence that I had put f orth and leave it be understood 24 that if there are variations that would hava to be 1
25 considered that they woulc come bacx to this panel.
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Al.oERSoN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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1 MAYOR MORRIS: If there any feeling that this l
2 would be in any conflict with what Tom Cochran has been' j 3 talkine about?
4 33. PALLADINO: Tom Cochran, in' discussion with 5 his he said, "Look, if they can't meet them they vill just 8 polish this further with Epicore type of operation." So he 7 recognized that th'ere may be high levels but he was looking 8 to the point where ve are about to dispose of it. He wants 9 to make sure that the amount is not any greater than these 10 levels, 11 1AYOR MORRIS 4 But the sta tement preceding the 12 levels, Dean Palladino, you don't feel that Tom was going to 13 have any particular problems?
14 3R. PALLADINC: I don't think so.
15 "AYOR 50RRI3a I have no problems with us acting 16 on it as long as that is the feeling because he was 17 interested in it snd all we going to do is end u; brineing 18 it up again at the next meeti..c if he is o;;osed to it.
19 MR. PALLADINO: Well, I would have no problem as 20 long as we put that in because that is I am quite sure the 21 intent that Tom had becauca he and I discussed it last week.
22 - dAYOR dLRRII: Is that in a sotion now?
23 3R. ?A1LADINO: ! vill so move.
24 5AYOR yJRRIS: ! vould second that.
25 0 FAIR."AN MINNICH: Any further discussion on the ALoER$oN REPORTING ooMPANY,iNo.
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26 1 motion?
2 MS. KOHR: I have some' points, John. I wasn't.
3 here last week but I did read over the notes'of testimony 4 and I had reviaved Tom's ;roposal* prior to l'a'st week's y 5 meeting. This particular reconmendation makes me very 6 nervous.
7 rirst of all, I think it is beyond the 8 capabilities of this committee to go about setting limits on 9 amounts of radioactive isotopes in this water. I just don't to think'that we are in a ~ position to do that even though 11 certain . Members of the coonittee such as Tom and the rean 12 have developed an expertise over many years in the field. I 13 just don't think that that'is our job'. .-
14 Tecondly, I think that the tone.cfx this ,
15 recomnendation is one which will make it very easy to take a 16 second step to allowing . disposal of the water into the 17 river. If we see not going to allov disposal of the water 18 into the river then my' question is'why get into this ,
19 question at all. I don't think it is within our =rea of 20 expertise and I don't think that it is somethine ve need to 21 do. I just f eel that it ic going beyond cur pro;er area of 22 inquiry.
23 I think the inportant question for this sommittee 24 on the water is are ve going to allow it to be discharged 25 into the river or not and what kinds of storsga or ALDERSoN REPORTING CoMMNY,INC, 400 vimGINIA AVE S.W. WASHINGTON. 0.C. 20024 (202) 554 2346
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1 disposition do we vant to recommend.
2 I don't think that the question of how many times 3 it goes through the'so-called polishers is of any great k
4 critical importance-to us. IC doesn't have any local 5 significance.
6 If the N3C vants to impose requirements upon 7 Metropolitan Edison the NRC is bound by the reculations and 8 guidelines set down.in 10 C.F.R. So : just don't see why we 9 should get into this whole question.
10 EE. 'J AGUER : lir . Chai rma n , there are two reason it 11 seems to me why we should defer this. -First of 331, because 12 Dr. Cochran is not here and this was basically his proposal ,
13 and, secondly, I think, ss was just stated, that I think the 14 question of the dispossi'of the high-level resins is of ,
15 graater :encern since we discuss in detail last week the 1
16 disposition of the water and this is sort of s fine point.
17 I think since we did the water the last time ve 18 should, if possible, concentrate on the resins this tim e. ,
j 19 OHAIRMAN .9INNICHs I have no problem with that 20 quite frankly.
21 33. PALLADI!:04 ! vould be willing to defer it. I 22 would rather have Tom Cochesn here when we discuss it. I 23 TA!CE 3CFn:Ss ! think Jean makes a good poin t so ,
1 24 I would be happy to withdraw my second if you want to drop 25 your motion. l l
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2B 1 D2. PALLADINC: I still want to move it at the >
2 appropriate time. I j ust would pref er that we have tha 3 appropriate representation. >
4 3AYC3 MORRIS: Fine.
5 CHAIRMAN MINNICH: Okay, fine. Ihe one thing that 6 I had hoped we would be able to do tonight was take a look 7 at the five that we did pass on the water so that I can 8 begin te shape up my correspondence to the NRC on the basis '
9 of these five recomnendations at least because of the 10 deadline.
11 If we wilt until the 19th, and if we have any more 12 floods, and I understand, by the way, there is another major 13 storm moving into the area over the weekend, so, you know, ! ,
14 could be up to my ears in ice and water and not be abla to 15 get to this.
16 I would like to have the panel, if you have had a 17 chance to revisu the five, if they appear to be in the order 18 in which we sdopted them at the last meeting tha t I could 19 have the panel's authority to go ahead and prepare the 20 correspondanca to ' J r. Ahearne. If I can get it done in time 21 I will being it as s draft to the next meeting so that you >
22 can look at my correspondence before it goes out if you have 23 no objections to that.
24 22, 2AGi22: Shouldn't these be read into the 25 record in any casa f or tha transcript?
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1 CHA!2%AN MI3NICHs They a re . in th e record . . l 2 MR. WACNER: No, I- mean these, Bill Traver's .
J 3 letter. ;
4 MR. TRAVIRSa Mr. Chairman, in some cases I had to l l
5 interpret the ;snel's. recommend ations.
l 6 TR. WAGFER: Perhaps they should he read in in s i 7 concise form.
8 CH4IEXAN !!NNICH: Do you have another copy of i 9 thist ;
10 "R. TRAVIRS: Yes. !
11 CHAIR %f.N MINNICH: Could ! have that and just give 12 it to the younc lady and we cculd it in that mannar rather 13 than run throu7h them.- _
14 2R'. TR AVIRS t.
Certainly. .,
15 (The document followss) e 16 17 18 19 20 -
21 22 '
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i o.*** "*%
ft .h, UNITED STATES ]
2 .ci ( a NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 1
" wasmmorow, o, c. nasse
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% February 11, 1981 J
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MEMORANDUM FOR: TMI-2 Advisory Panel Members -
I FROM: William D. Travers 1
SUBJECT:
DRAFT VERSION OF PANEL REC 0leENDATIONS APPROVED ON FEBRUARY 4, 1981 Per Chairman Minnich's request, the following draft' recommendations are provided for the Panel's consideration. j Since, in our view, the decontamination of TMI-2 should be completed as ~
safely and expeditiously as possible the Panel recommends that:
Recomryndation 1 :
Tne radioactively contaminated water located in the reactor building
@be decontaminated as rapidly as possible using the licensee's pronosed submerged demineralizer system (SDS) currently being con-structed. This reconinendation, specific to the SDS system, is !
contingent upon approval of that system by the NRC. .
t Recommendation 2 ,
The approximately 1.6 million gallons of decontaminated water expected as a result of TMI-2 decontamination activities be stored initially in onsite tanks to permit accurate assessment of its residual radio- ,
activity content prior to a decision regarding ultimate disposal.
e Recommendstion 3, ;
The appropriateness of continued onsite storage of decontaminated water be reviewed annually by this Advisory Panel.
Recommendation 4 To the extent practicable, Metropolitan Edison Company should minimite ,
additional onsite water requirements by maximizing the use of recyclad i decontaminated water.
Recommendation 5 i k
The radioactive contamina;s (excepting tritium) in the unprocessed water !
at TMI-2 should be reconGntrated and ininobilized as expeditiouf y as j possible consistent with regulatory requirements, j l
)
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TMI-2 Advisory Panel Members l j
Recommendation 6 ,
The design and operation of decontaminatiou systems for processing
. radioactively contaminated water should minimize, as far as practicable, the amourts of residual radioactivity in the resulting processed water.
As a goal, the parel believes the following curie inventories for all processed water resulting from cleanup activities are achievable.
(Values to be decided by Panel).
id) /#
William D. Travers I
1 I
,y , , - - - - - - - - - ,
l 30 L
1 CHAIRMAN MINN!CHs Has everybody had a chance to e
2 review these five? In fact, why don't we take a few 3 minutes. Let me give you the pages on which they appear in 4 you r transe 1pt. The first one is found beginning on page 5 34, the sacond on page 56, the t,hird on ; age 51, the fourth 6 on page 62 and the fifth on page 63.
7 Nov let's take a look at those and maybe we can 8 just adopt this as a part of the record and subsit it that 9 vay.
10 MR. PALLADINC What page was that for the 11 recommendation one?
12 CH A IE M A N 5!NsICH: ;sge 34 on the first one, 13 Doctor. Now, in that one you have to bear in mind that 14 Henry started out with a very long recommendation and we 15 decided to break it down into three pa rts , I believe it 16 was. So it is a rather lengthy conversation there.
17 DR. PALLADINCs I wonder if I could ask Dr. 'Jagner 18 a question.
19 When you moved that, Henry,: as it appears 'here 1
20 it says "The radioactively contaminated water water located 21 in the reactor building sung. . . . Did you mean the water 22 in the reactor building, all of the water in the reactor i 23 huilding?
24 1R. WA0YII: Yer.
25 DR. PALLADI"Os ! vonder if the vord " sump" I
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1 belongs there or we shculd just say "in the' reactor i
2 building"? -
3 32. '4 AGN EE : N o , th a t can be' deleted.
- 4 ME.-?ALLADINos All right. Thank you. '
5 (Short' pause while ;anel revieve. recommendations.F '
- 8. YS. KCH31 Are we open for discussion ? ,
s
~
7 CHAIRMAN MINNICHa- Yes, go ahead.
8 MS. KOHR: I have sose very serious concerns about 9 Recommendation No. 1. I think that it has been our 10 experience with those of'un who have been involved with 11 vatching the develo; ment, conctruction and operatien of the ,
12 Epicore 2 system, another ion exchange system, that it is ,
13 clear.that the ion exchange'systen does not immobilize I
14 endicactivs 'satveisis for any extended period of time.
15 Ihe picture comes.in my mind of' crabbing in the 16 Chesapeake Bay where you drop your bait into the bay and you 17 issobilize a clump of crabs for a while when they hook onto 18 tha t bait 3 But unless you can capture them and contain them 19 for an extended period of time they are going te get away 20 because they eat up your bait. .
21 Now, I think that is wh a t is happening at TM nov 22 with the radioactive resins. The esdioactive materials that 23 is captured on tas recin heads has disintegrated the beads 24 according to information that we have received from seme 25 work done and even in John Ahearne 's latest letter.
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32 1 So ! think that we are ' deceiving ourselves 'if f we -
~2 believe that the SDS system, which is.another ion exchange 3 - system, is going to do the job, at this poin t.
4 Now, I have no problem-with the first.Strt of ihis 5 recommendation that the radioactively contaminated ~ water 6 located in'the resctor building be' decontaminated as capidly 7 as possible period.
8 I think that we should modify the remainder of ;
9 that recommendation by raisin: some concerns to the l F
10 Commission regarding the implementation of 505.
?
11 'I think the Commission should do what was not done 12 with Epicore 2 and tha t is make .sure that extensive testing !
13 . is .done . I know some : column testing has been: done. on the f
14 zeolite proposed to.make cure that it is going.to immobilize 15 the radioactive icotopes in that water f or a period of time 16 long enough to enable to implementation of an ultimate 17 disposal system. ,
i 18 il o w , my mafor concern about ne operation of SDS 19 iir that we will get into the same hinti that we are into nov 20 with Edicere 2 and tha t is that the system will be cut into 21 operation. The tsdioactive material vill be moved out of a 22 relatively secure containment building and ;ut out onto the 23 island without a pisn for disposal.and disposition of the 24 high-lavel radioactive waste to be generated.
25 I think that when we make this recommendation to ALDER 8cN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
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i 33 1 the Commission that we should raise these two issues, that 2 we should tell them that we think that the SDS. system, if 3 that is the system that is ultimately selected, should not 4 be put into operation until there is a plan carefully worked 5 out and already approved and ready to go to get the stuff 6 off the island bef ore the resins themselves star t to
. 7 disintegrate inside the casters.
8 wR. PALLADINCs Well, Mr. Chairman, there is a 9 difference between the syctens being used here and the one f
to used for Ipicore 2, the Epicore 2 being lar;ely organic and 11 this being lar;ely-inorganic. There has been and there was 12 even at the beginning questions raised about the durability 13 of the system being proposed. But I think there was general 14' agreement that it certainly was going to be goed for a 15 couple of years.
16 Now I understand, and this is subject to 17 confirnation by collesques that know better, but with the 18 organic system I don't believe the same kind of problems 19 will axist, although I know that nothing lasts forever and 20 we always have a time limit. What I would like to be 21 assured is that th e time limit is consistent with our abiliy 22 to cope with tne disposal of the resins.
23 Incidentally, the last sentence in this 24 recom=andation says "This reco:cenation specific to the 505 25 system is contingent upon s;;r: val of that syrten by "EC."
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34-35 1 At least that is one hedge against your question.
2 CHA 331N 5!33ICHs That connotates with it that it-3 seets all the NFC ctandards.
4 I think, Jean, the thing that the panel was 5 concerned about at the last meetin; vis that there 6 absciutely has to soon begin some :ovenent to get the place
. 7 cleaned up. Leaving it sit in what you call a safe 8 containment building is not, I. don't believe the answer. 'J e 9 l can't leave it sit there forever.
10 .35. !CHRs John, I am not saying let it sit there 11 forever.
12 CHAI?!AN 3;NNICH: I und.arstand that, but the ,
13 cencensus in raviewing the t ranscrip t , et ceters, was that l
-14 let's go on with the job cf cleanin; it up and contineent 15 upon meeting NEC requirements but let's get the';1 ace
- 16 cleaned up.
17 %5. TOHRs John, let e just say this. I think 18 that thers is a tremendouc ;s7:hologi:11 1.2;ulse for all of 19 us in this area to allow curselves to believe that clean-up 20 is taking place. I don't think that.the I;icere 2 system is '
21 a clean-up sechanism in any sense tf the verd.
22 (A;;1a,use.)
23 MS. KOHEs I think that the I;1cere 2 system is a 24 pr:cedure that has been set up that allows us to lead 25 ourselves to b=11 eve that we are doin: se ething u; there C
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i 1 and it 'isn't .doing anything except moving the stuff'from one .j
- 2 place to another and creating a different kind'of a problas. [
l 3 (Applause.)
4 MS. Y.CHR: I-have not received any kind of 5 assurance, and !.have gone,over'last sunmer, and.I as sure
.6 there is idditional material on SDS now, but last summer I 7 personally reviewed about four cardboard boxes of documents 8 on the SDS systes supplied .to me in. my office by the ,
9 !!stropolitan Idison Company and there was nothing, and'I 10 mean nothing, in tha t documentation. As a matter of fact, 11 we had it also reviewed by experts in the area and there is 12 nothing in there to lead me to believe that th e . SDS system 13 is going to do the job - tha t ther say it is going to do.
14 They are proceeding exactly.the,same way that,they did with-15 Epicore 2. .
16 Now, since last summer ! have received some
't 17 ' indications that Oakridge and Brookhaven are :cinc some 18 careful studies acout what is going to happen to the teolite L 19 resins when water of the type that is in the containment .
20 building runs through.
21 Yow, I-haven't seen ene results of those studies 22 yet and : am not sure that other people have. I think that 23 we need to urga the Consission to just simply make sure that 24 before this thing gets the go button that they knew that it 25 is ;oing to work because : don't think we are goin; to do ,
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r 1 ourselves any good by-having this stuff run'throu;h. . !
. r 2 Everytime they put two pipes together ' at TH! and run wa ter j i
3 through they leak. -[
r 4- CHAIRP!AM MINNICHs- You have confused me because 5 rou have said 'on the- one hand.ithat, you know, we want:to get +
~
. l 6 the place cleaned 'up and I don'.t think anybody here implied. [
- 7 that the system shouldn 't' meet the standards. l 8 I sm confused also, are you saying that the water ,
'9 'that'.went through Ipicore doesn't, meet the standards, that' f to it is still hi;hly radioactive?- Is that wh a t you are saying?
{
11 ;iS. KORE: It did clean up the water, John, but it 12 didn't clean up the island.
13 CHAIRMAN itI;GICHs W ell , . I . d e n .' t think anybody-t 14 . implied in this that..it.didn't.do that. I don't think 15 anybody is a rguine . tha t. You can't get!the building cleaned 16 up if you can't getlthe water out of it.
.(
17 MR. WAGNER:- 'r. Chairman, I think it is.very ;
18 important for everybody to have their opinions heard but s
19 this was discussed in detail at the isst e.e e tin e . I think 20 as long- as we have started discussing this if it were a i'
21 short thing that it would be permissible to go ahead and do 22 this, but I don't think tha t we should dircuss last 23 seetin;'s recommendations unless we nave a formal-voto to !
24 reconsider them becausa they were passed unaninously after i
I 25 extensive rational discussion.
i ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE S.W. WASHINGTON, D.C. 20024 (202) $64 2346
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38 1 CHA!3%A.4 MINNICHa- No. This particular one had.
2 one dissenting vote.
3 43. WAGNES: They ~ were' passed at the last meeting.
4 CHAIEMAN ZINNICHs Yes. I a7ree and that is why I 5 have trouble.
6 You know, Jean, and I don' t want to belabor the 7 point, but I as just conf used by some of your statements.
8 Tha t is all. I really am. The point that Henry is makinc 9 is true. We passed these recommendatins at last week's 10 meeting. ,
11 35..K0HE4 I don ' t have. any problem with the basic.
12 concept of the recommendation that the water needs to be 13 decon taminated as rapidly as possible. -.
14 The problem that I have is the assumption,that.is.
15 inh eren t in this recommendatien that the EDS system is going 16 to do the job. I think that the last sentence might deal 17 with that, but I think that the two points that we need to 18 emphasize are that the Commission should be a Inred tha t it 19 is going to immobilize the radioactivity in t we.ter and 20 that it will held that stuf f long enouch for a an for 21 disposition of the waste to be put into effect.
22 I don't want to repest myself but I don't see the 23 point in operatin; a syst??. if we don't have any ;1 ace to 24 take the stuff.
25 A Y C ? 10DRIIs understand y ur concerr., Jean. I ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
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1 think, though, that it is only fair that you refer to all of 2 tha parts of the transcript. Fart of the discussion that 3 vent along with this recomm endtion w as 'the f act that the NRC-4 has been asking many ef.the questions and concerns.you are 5 raising here in their corraspondence.
+
6 It is based on the fact that they are being so ,
7 thorough that I personally felt comf ortable~ with their j 8 review and if they end up approving it that I felt ,
9- comfortable with the SOS system. It is in that context that 10 I voted in the positive.
11 23. WAGFER: Jean, the last statement.that you 12 made was you jon't think the SDS should be operated until 13 .the re is a place to take the high-activity' resins which, in .
14 my opinion, is'the single most important' thing that we l
15 should address for the rest of the evening, and that is what 16 can we 19 as a committee to solve this log jam with respect 17 to high-level waste. At the appropriate time ! would like 18 to make some comnents on that. -
19 MR. PALLADIN0s Well, Mr. Chairman, I thinA it is 20 im p ortan t to recognire that we separated the problem into 21 several steps: one, cleaning up the wa.ter and then; two, l l
22 wha t do we do with this concentrated resin.
23 CHAIR.5AN MINNICH: You are ri;ht.
24 13. VALLADINCs That is why ! think Henry had made 25 his point.
l ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
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u0 1 Last week we. vere talkin7 about vehicles for ;
2 cleaning up the water. This week we wanted to talk about 1
3 vehicles f o r setting rid of these resins. I think both-4 steps ar e v ery essential ---
i 5 CHA!RMAN MINNICH4 Absolut.iy. ;
6 MR. PALLADINO: --- or otherwise in truth we-vill' !
l 7 not have cleaned up the island while we may have cleaned up ,
l 8 the water. I think we have the same interests in cleaning 9 up the island as you do.
10 CHAIRMAN MINNICH: I agree.
11 MR. PALLADING4 I was hoping that when ve get back i
12 to the resin that in addition to the recommendation we ,
13 concurrad on with regard to the low-level resins that we- , .
14' make some recommendation with regard,to the hich-level 15 resins.
16 CHAIEXAS MINNICH: Well, Bill hac advised me that 17 it is ten after eight. Safor Morris must leave,-Pr.
18 Palladino tust get back and temperatures are still falling.
I i 19 MAYOR MCERIS: 8:30 ! was planning on leavinc.
I 20 CHAIRMAN MINVICH: I would like to at least ;et 21 these five out. If you can keep it in that context, Jean, 22 in what we ara trying to do, deal with the water problem 23 first and then come back and deel with the dir;osal of the 24 waste. F+xt week I hope we would be able to get into that 25 issue.
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41 1 1 33. y0HE: Well, I don't have any problas with 2 that. I mean, I a: with that. I.was one of the people who 3 felt that that was one of the major points this committee 4 should deal with. But I t.iink that we need to be careful 5 how - our recommenda ciCn s come across to the press 'and I think I 6 we need to be careful about how they come.scross to the 7 Cosa; <sion itself.
8 Perhsps when we send in these recommendations,.
9 John, and when you draf t your correspodence if you can make i
10 it clear to the Commission that we feel that this is s 11 package, that they have got to handle all of these probles 12 and not break then down and just de one without the other 13 that would satisfy me.on this point.
14 CHA!!!AH %IN'ICH: . Well,.I am not sure,I.can do 15 that but I will try. The initial correspondence will deal 16 solely vita the w=.ter and we are planning. on getting to the 17 solids later, but I will try to do something along that line. .
18 C5. KOHE I think it is a mistake to separate it 19 out like tnat.
20 CH AI? !i Ah EIXI!!CH s But that is the way we were 21 asked, Jean.
22 MS. cCHE: It is easier for our discussion and it 23 is certainly the most logical way to go about dealing with 24 the problems, but when it comes to making cur 25 recommendations it seems to ne that we have got to pull it ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE, S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) $64 2348
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42 1 together and ve have to emphasize this to the Commission, 2 because they are doing the same thing. That was one of our 3 basic local arcuments that they are segmenting this whole 4 process and that is not beneficial to anybody.- They have 5 got to sea this as a whole package and they can't do one 6 step without doing the other. Again, it leads us to believe 7 something is happaning up there when nothing 45 happening.
8 CHAIF.ZAN MINNICE: I don't know where you got that 9 impression because-! certainly don't think it is . -
10 fE. .oALLADING: I certainly support Ms. Kore in 11 part, but I do think f er the record that I cannot tolerata 12 supporting here statement that nothine is happening. I 13 think these people ar,e conscientiously tryi.ng to. clean up 14 Three dile Island. Whe,ther we_aoree.with that;,they'are 15 doing or not impugning their ef forts I think serves ~ nobody 16 any purpose.
17 I de a' gree with % s. Zore tha t there is a point 18 with regard to the total package of ideas. I think it is 19 important for them to know that we Tre examining the 20 clean-up of the water but that we do consider equally 21 important and perhaps even more important the disposition of l
I
! 22 these rasins off site in an acceptable safe approved
- 23 manner.
l l 24 While we may not have gotten to cu'r cpecific 25 reconmendations on that point, I wouldn't te adverse to I
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1 indicating that in puttinc these recomr andations in that ;
2 context. ,
3 33. Wac;lE3 s 3:. Chairman.
4 CRAIE3A3 MINNICH: Yes. f 5- 3?. WAGNER: I think it is possible' that with '
6 respect to the low-level resins that this committae can have :
. 7 served as a catalyst in getting them off the island. - I .
t 8 would suggest tha t we should try to act in'the same ;
9 catalytic capacity vich respect to the high-level resins
. j 10 which would meet your desires. ;
-(
11 33. PALLADINO: If we get to the high-1wvel risk I 12 still would like to introduce ene recommendation that we get 13 NBC or DCE, and I'think it is ?CI, oiving prompt. attention ,
4
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14 to implementing an interim storage off-site, off the CI: ;
15 site, pending the final disposition of these resins.
16 h A Y C E' 3 0 E R,I I : Mr. Chairman, point-of order.
17 CHAI25AN MIN 5ICH4 Yas. ,
16 5A!CS MCERIS: I would like to do what I think you 19 would like to do, and that is to take the points made at the I
20 last meeting. I think our charge tonight, and I certainly 21 think Jean Xoh: should mak e whatever ;cints she vents to !
22 make and certainly at the next meeting that can be done with 3 1
23 the whole panel or more people ; esent. ;
24 But it was my understanding at the last neeting g 25 that our char;e tonigh t on these recce encations was te read r
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. .. .i 44 1 them and proof them basically to see if they really were 2 what we ;assed on at the last meeting'and then after we 3 said, yes, they were the right spelling and wording that our 4 Chairman would then transnit a letter and we were not really 5 supposed to be discussing a changing of the recommendation. .
6 I concur with what *ean'has said that if we can 7 include as part of the letter the f act that we are concerned 8 about the ridding of the resins and they should be tied 9 together, I agree. I think that is a good point and.ve to should not forget it.
11 I would like to at least get some kind of.
12 agreement that these are in order, and I think they are ,
13 based on this'one remo'ral of the worde" sump" from that first 14 recommendation and I f eel the rest of them are basically 15 what we discussed.
16 53. ?ALLADI30: ?r. Chairman, I concur with Mr.
17 ! orris.
18 M R . '4 AG!i ER : I agree. I think ther represent the 19 conclusions that we came to at the last mee ting .
20 CHAIEM AN Z::f!!!CH s ! have enecked them 4. gainst the 21 minutes and with the exception of that word " sum;" which we 22 have agreed should be removed they do appear to be in order.
23 ! have made notas, Jean, of what you have said f or 24 when I prepara my letter. I would ask for a motien to 25 sutmit these for the record so I can begin crafting my ALCERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WA$HINGToN, D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
1 45 1 letter.
I 2' 5AYOR 30ERIEs ! vould so move that those 3 recommendations be sub mitted. .
4 'ZR. PALLADIN0s I second it..
5 CHAIRZAN MINNICH All right, it has been properly 6 moved'and secondad.
)
7 Any f urther- discussion on the motion? .
8 (No response.)
9 CHAIRMAN MINNICHs Are there any dissenting votes !
i 10 on the motion?
11 ( No response. )- i 12 CHAIRXAN MINNICH: Hea ring none, the motion is 13 carried.
{
14 MAYOR MORRIEs :'r. Chairman, should ' we make. a 15 action or do you need a motion haced on what Jean has said?-
16 Should 'she make any kind of motion or have you duly heard 17 her? .
18 CHAIR!AN MINFICE: I would defer to Jean if you 19 feel-you want it in a formal motion, but I have made a note 20 here so that when I draf t my letter I will as strongly as
- 21 possible tie.the concern that the vastes, the proper
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22 disposal is even more important than the clean-up of the 23 vater.
24 Itis a good point,. Jean. I think anyone is really 25 disagreeing with yeu.
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a6 1 :MS.-XCH3: That ' is all ri;ht. I_am'used'to 2 a rg uing with you.
3- ( La uc ht ar . )
4 f 5. K0 hrs- I think.I would like to justquickly 5 put it into a motio'n ---
s e CH AI3d Ah - 3I!!JICH s Go right ahead.
7 MS. KOHR s . --- and simply say that I move . tha t _ the -
8 Chairman in his cover letter to the Commission encoursoe the 9 Commission to consider all of our recommencations together 10 and to' recognize that the clean-up process at Three Zile 11 Island involver the disposition of the radioactive wastes as 12 well as the interim-~ steps toward 1: sob 111 zing those vastes 13 and that tha t should'be considered a total program.
14 ,
CH AIR 3 A!!, 3IN fICH s Is there a_second to that 15 sotion?
16 .XAYOR 1CRRI5s I will'second that motion.
17 3R. WAGNI24 I am not clear as-to-what you mean by 18 "should be considered as a total program." ! ion't 19 understand what the implica tions ed tha t are.
20 AS. XCHRs I think that when we are considering 21 processes for intermediate staps that they should keep in 22 mind the ultinate problem of what are they going to do with 23 it af ter it is produced.
24 3R.. WAG 5IR: I understand.
25 3R. GTRUEXrs 3r Chairman.
ALDER 8oN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE 5.W., WASHi>*GToN. Q.C. 20024 (202) 564 2346
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1 CHAIE37? hIN!iICH: Yes, Tom.
2 33. GERUSKYs Since next week,the recommodations .!
3 con ce rning the vaste are going to be discussed and possibly 4 submitted to the Commission I'think that is what should be 5 stated in the letter, that we vill be coming throuch with.
4 6 additio'nal tecommendations which should also be judged. as 7 important or maybe even more important than these 8 recommendations, but because of. the time limitations we felt 9 that these were important te get to you as they were 10 generated, something like that. e 11 I don't think we want to let th em feel that they 12 are not going to pat any more recommenda tions and this is
- 1) it. They are coing to get a lot more.
14 CHAIRMAN MI3MICH: Another comment?
15 MR. ?ALLADI.104 dr. Chairman, is there a 16 requirement that we submit this separately? ,
17 CHAIRMA.4 MIN!!ICH a To this exten t, Dr. ?alladino.
18 Mr. Ahearne asked f or our commente on the clean-u; cf the 19 water. In fact, it was supposed to :e January 31st and I 20 pointed out that we couldn' t meet that deadline and he i 21 extended it to February 25th. Eo there is to that extent.
22 'R. ?ALLADINO: Okay, thank you.
23 33. GEPU3KY: The final ve rsien of the document is 24 now beinc draf ted or finalired in Washingt:n for submirsion 25 to the Commission. C it is not coin; to be very lon7 :
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1 before the final version of the EIE is submitted and the- ",,
2 Commission will van t. to tak e these recommendations under 3 consideration while they are studying the decunent.
4 CH AIREAN HINNICH Ckay. Any further comments?
U 5 :'R. PALLADINCs Oo ! understand that as ; ;; of [
h
,6 Jea n's action' there vill be a statement indicating there are 7 other recommendations coming?
8 CHAIRMAN MI3NICHs Yes, I think that is the 9 intent. Yes.
10 Any dissenting votes on the mo tion ?
11 (No response.)
12 CHAIR 5AN 2! 3ICMa 2 earing none, the motion is 13 carried. t 14 Thank you.
. t 15 Let's see, you don't have much time, Mayor. Oc ve i
16 have time to discuss anything further tonight if the Yayor 17 is going to be leaving?
18 53. PALLADINO: Mr. Chairman, can you outline for 19 us what our plan of action ir or perha;s even more 20 importantly what it is that vo need to accomplish betvaen 21 this meeting and the next meeting? We have talked about the ;
22 vater and we have made some recommendation on.that and we 23 started on the resins. How far are ve hoping to go or ,
24 axmected to go in our delibersti'ons?
25 CHAIRMAN TINNICHs At next nek's :+4tinc I assume ALDERSoN REPoRTWO COMPANY,INC.
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1 that what we will do is exactly what we did isst week.only ;
2- for the solid wastes.. I' don't'have a time frime insofar as-3 the'. NBC .is concerned.-on' that particular ' issue , L aithough I 4- think the point.that the statement is going to.te. coming out l If we can get through 1* i 5 that that should be torne in mind. -
6 all next week, fine. If we can 't', -!' think then ve have- to ,
7' schedule some more meetings and decide who else_we m'ight' !
8 :want to have tefore-us, if anybody. ;
9 ?y the way, I have given you a! copy.cf the study
]
4 10 that came out of the Georgia Institute-.of:Techno1 coy that' 11 was discussed at one of our previous meetines. This is the-12- committee that was constitutes to deal with the EIA. . Y ou' .i i
13 should review that because'! sm sure there may be some' ,
14 things in there that you may want 'to discuss at' next week's .
15 seating. ;
i 16 %3. PALLADINCs Ceuld you identify it, :lesse?' i 17 CH AIRMA% .':I3 NICE. :t4 is - on the Ge orgia 'In stitute j 18 of Technology stationery. J i
19 Henry, did ! give you all .of the documents?
. I 20 M3. WAGNER: Yes. i
}
21 CHAIRMAN !!NNICHs Ckay. Everybody got a copy of 22 the dccuments that I had.
23 Bill, ene.other thing, if I may , before ! ferget 24 it. Would you send a copy of the this to those members who 25 were not able to take it tonight, the four member: that were ALDERSoN REPcRTING COMPANY, INC, i
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m-50 1 not here ---
2 HR.; TRAVERS: Certainly.
3 CHAI3 MAN MINNICH: --- so that they will have.it 4 before next week's meeting.
5 I don't know that we can really accomplish 6 anything else tonight and I would actually call for a motion 7 to adjourn until next Thur: day night.
8 MR. PALLADINO: Mr. Chairman, have we cleared up 9 who is~ going to 53 the point of contart to check that a to mee ting is or is not going to take piece? ,
11 CH AI2HAN HINFICH: .Yes.
12 35. ?AL*ADINO: That was one of my problems today.
13 CHAIRMAN XINNICH: Eight. 5111 wi11 have his 14 office poll next Thursday morning, and for any subsequent ,_
15 seatin;s on the morning of the meeting, to determine if we 16 vill in fact have a quorum. Then he will me and we will 17 make whatever decision is necessary at that time.
18 32. ?AllADINur ! an thinking even further, Mr.
19 C ha irm an . The news about the impending inclement weather 8
20 didn't come until the early part of the afternoon.
21 CHAIRMAN MINNICH: 7.i gh t .
22 *2.
. PA*.LADINO: I was looking for a place where !
23 could call sn?. thay could rsy, yes, we understand that. 'J e 24 have looked at it and we still think we are going to hold 25 the meetin; and therefore averybody could be guidad ALDERSoN REPORTING coWPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
I 51 1 accordingly'.'If we could estab31sh that, either your office 2 or Mr. Travers' office, I have no objection. Just so there 3 is somebody there that feels responsible even if . you are not 4 there to provide that kind of information.
5 CH AIRM A*i XIN.1ICH s I believe, Bill, you sent.to 6 everyono the little blurb 'on how ' to get to the NBC by 7 calling the local office? .c 8 YR. TRAV23S4 That was passed out at the first 9 meeting. !
10 MS. KOHE4 That doesn 't work for me.
r 11 CHAI? MAN XIN;iICH: Oh, it doesn't work for you?
12 35. TCHas 'i o .
. 13 CHAIEMAH MI'i!ICH ' dell, I have no problem.
14 , MS. KOHRs '4311, you have got one of these 15 operators in Harrisburg.
16 CHAIRMAN MINNICHs And you 1,ont.
17 TS. KOHRs No, and they won't take me up there.
18 M2. TRAVIES: I haven't heard before now of any 19 problems. 70 one has really come to me but I wocid be happy .
20 to help.
21 CHAI3%AN d!3NICH4 So you cRn you help J e s;' out ,
22 with that? The point I am petting at in I think that your f
23 office should be the clearing office and tha t between you 24 and I we will determine it. If you will let re 25 approximately when you depart for Harrisburg to that up to ALDER $oN REPORTING COMPANY,INC.
400 VIRGINIA AVE S.W., WASHINGTON. Q.C. 20024 (202) 584-2346
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'1 that' point if there are any problems-I can get in touch with 2 you and we can cancel-out if it:become necessary. g]
3 5a'. IRAVERSs Sure.
' i 1
1 4 CHAIR 3AN MINNICH: For Jean, if you can get her a 5 number where she can call. j I
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6 3Ar03 MORRIS: -What is your phone number that we 7 can reach'you st, 3111. ,
8- CH AIRM A!i IENICH s Yes, and Mayor Morris would 9 have the same problem. He would have to have it siso. He 10 had passed out a slip.
11 '!R . TRAVERS s It is on that list but I vill give 12 it to you a gain.
13 MAYOR MORRIS: _ We called your; office and you had .. .
.s .
14 left. We got it todsy. I was just.; going , t.o .
writ.e it.on . ~ . . ,
15 this list if you had it handy.
16 33. TRAVIRS: 3 01 -u 9 2-7 811.
17 OHAIRMAM MINN!CHs If he can get you to an, what 18 is it, FTE operstor it doesn't cost the city any money and 19 that is what we are trying to get for you.
20 dAYOE 33RRISs Right. Well, we vill ce for that. 1 21 CHAIRMAN MINNICH: Bill vill get that to you.
22 Okay, Doctor, does that address the concern?
23 1R. ?AL1ADINot Yes.
24 CH AIRM AN 3!.'INICH 4 That way you would call 2:.
l 25 Trsvers if tnere is any question in your mind at all'as to ALDER 5oN REPORTING COMPANY. INC.
400 VIRGINlA AVE., S.W., WASHINGTON. D.C. 20024 (202) 564 2348
A 53 1 whether or not there is a question on the mee tinc and his 2 office would have that answer.
3 MR. TRAVERS: ! guess what I would apprec'iate it' 4- is if people aren't goinc to be attend 1nc that they let us 5 know as soon as possible as well. ! think that vould be 6 helpful. We didn't hear from anyone today.
, 7 CHAIR 3AN EINNICH: . Jell, I had two calls.
8 3R. TRAVERS: Yes. Possibly because of the time I 9 left. ,
10 CHAI3%AN MINNICH4 CXay, folks. Again I thank you.
11 Coes anyone in the sudienee have anything.f urther 12 to say before ve adjourn the meeting?
, 13 (No response.) ,
14 IHAIRMAN 5INNICH: Motion to adjourn?
r 15 3R. FALLACINO: I so move.
16 MAYOR MORRIS: Second.
17 CHAIRMAN %IN"!CH4 It has been.;roperly moved and 18 seconded.
19 The meeting is adjourned. See yo u all next 20 Thursday, the 7eod Lord willing, with no ice dams or no snov 21 storms.
22 ( '4her eu po n , at 4:30 p.m., the A:!vicory is.nel 23 adjourned.)
24 25 ALDERSoN REPORTING COMPANY,INC, 400 VIRGINIA AVE., S.W., WA$HINGToN. 0.C. 20024 (202) 554 2345
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e NUCLEAR EGULATORY COM!CSSION ,
1 This is to certify that the attached pecceedings 'cefore the
,q m/ _
in the :: tatter of: MEETING OF THE ADVISORY PANEL FOR THE DECONTM11MATION OF THREE MILE ISLAND UNIT 2
- Date of Proceeding: February 11, 1981 ,
i Decket !!w::ber:
Place of Proceeding: Harrisburc, Pa.
i were held as herein appears, and that this is the Original transcrip: i therecf for the file of the Cc::::::ission., . :
1 l
Mary C. Simons l Official Reporter (Typed) s- m_ '
Official Reporter (5ignature) t i
. 1 o
e g-n i .
aa
, Dictribution for
. Transcripts for Advisory Penal Mtstings ,
2/11/81 Meeting - Harrisburg, PA.
Chairman Ahearne - 1014-H Mr. Peter Tuite Connissioner Gilinsky Waste Management Group, Inc.
Commissioner Bradford 503 Grasslands Road Commissioner Hendrie Valhalla, New York 10595 W. Dircks, EDO 6209-MNBB H. Denton, NRR P-428 Dr. Tom Gerusky B. Snyder Bureau of Radiation Protection L. Barrett (20) Dept. of Environmental Resources OGC 1035-H Box 2063 ELD 9604-MNBB Harrisburg, Pennsylvania 17120 TMIPO Lynch Dr. James Opelka ANL POUCH Leech EISD/ Bldg 10 Weller Argonne National Laboratory Travers Argonne, Illinois 60439 Lo Duncan D. Cleary P-522 C. Hickey P-234 Panel Members W. Pasciak P-712 F. Congel P-712 E. Hanrahan 1013-H M. Libarkin, ACRS 1014-H Rich Major, ACRS 1014-H Jeanne Cook, OPA 3709-MNBB R. Browning, NMSS 905-SS Docket File -
' y\ l g to NRC PDR Lo, .a ' ' 'R /p
[4 [b hh i TERA N' ffL ),, J ;,[,U N
3; FES 191981> FG Steven M. Long,. Director d,"WalM""fS
,y Power Plant Siting Program ,
Department of Natural Resources qg Tawes Building B-3 Annapolis, Maryland 21401 Herbert Feinroth Dept of Energj ET-763 ,
GTN B-107 )
l Mr. Matthew Bills j Environmental Protection Agency '
401 M Street, S . W.
Washington, D. C. 20460 Mr. J. Shea Council on Environmental Quality 722 Jackson Place, N.W.
Washington, D. C. 20006 i
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