ML20210B327
| ML20210B327 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Braidwood, Comanche Peak  |
| Issue date: | 09/10/1986 |
| From: | Atomic Safety and Licensing Board Panel |
| To: | |
| References | |
| CON-#386-793 OL, NUDOCS 8609180042 | |
| Download: ML20210B327 (228) | |
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.ORGWAL UNntU STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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.IN THE MATTER OF: DOCKET NO: 50-456 OL
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ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC. ga#' o CDU Offic:al Reporters 444 North CapitolStreet 9M dw/ 4 Washington, D.C. 20001 gri. p *g ,
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PDR ADOCK 05000445 i j
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12338 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA t 2 NU' CLEAR RBGULATORY COMMISSION 3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD i - 4
__________________x :
5
, . In the Matter of: :
6 : Docket No. 50-456 COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY : 50-457 7 :
(Braidwood Station, Units 1 :
8 and 2) :
-_________________x -
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- 10 ~
' Page: 12,338 - 12,563 11 United States District Court House '
(~ 12 Courtroom 1919 Chicago, Illinois 60604
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Wednesday, September 10, 1986 14 i
15 The hearing in the above-entitled matter reconvened 16 at 9:00 A. M.
17 B EFORE:
18 JUDGE HERBERT GROSSMAN, Chairman
' 19 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 20 Washington, D. C.
w 21 JUDGE RICH ARD F. COLE, Membe r, Atomic Safety and Licensing Board 22 U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission Washington, D. C.
23 JUDGE A. DIXON CALLIH AN, Member, 24 Atomic Safety and Licensing Board U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission
! 25 Washington, D. C.
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1 APPEAR ANCES :
2 On behalf of'the Applicant:
3 JOSEPH G ALLO, ESQ.
Isham, Lincoln & Beale 4 Three First National Plaza Chicago, Illinois 60602 5
6 On' behalf of the Nuclear Regulatory i
Ccamission Staf f:
7 ELAINE I. CH AN, ESQ .
8 GREGORY ALAN BERRY, ESQ.
U. S. Nuclear Regulatory Commission 9 7335 Old Georgetown Road Bethesda, Maryland 20014 10 On behalf of the Intervenor:
11 t'~ ROBERT GUILD, ESQ. *
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13 14 15 16 i 17 18 1 s ,
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1 EXBIBIT INDEX I. D. R ECEIVED 2 Intervenors Exhibit No.125 12368 12a94 3 Intervenors' Exhibit No.126 12387 12394 4 Intervenors' Exhibit No.127 12401 12416 ,
5 Intervenors' Exhibit No.128 12412 12412
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6 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 129 12418 12425 7 Intervenors' Exhibit No.130 12422 8 Intervenors' Group Exhibit No. 131 12424 9
Applicant's Exhibits Nos.
10 120 and 121 12465 11 Intervenors' Exhibits Nos.
130 and 131 (Offer of Proof) 12468 12 Applicant's Exhibit No. 122 12472 13 Intervenors' Exhibit No.132 12477 12479 Intervenors' Exhibit No.133 12493 12496 14 Intervenors' Exhibit No.134 12499 12503 Intervenors' Exhibit No.135 12504 12507 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 l l Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
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~b 1 TESTIMONY OF GR EG JOSEPH ARCHAMBEAULT Page No.
2 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) 3 BY MR. GUILD 12352
. 4 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION BY MR. GALLO: 12390 5
DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued) 6 BY MR. GUILD: 12394 7 BOARD EXAMINATION 9Y J UDG E CALLIH AN: 12451 8
BOARD EXAMINATION 9 BY J UDG E COLE: 12457 10 BOARD EXAMINATION BY J UDG E CALLIH AN : 12460 11 s BOARD EXAMINATION .
BY JUDGE GROSSMAN: 12461
} 12
- 13 CROSS EXAMINATION BY MR. GALLO 12508 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The hearing is reconvened.
2 This is the 62nd day of hearing.
3 Are there any preliminary matters before we go on 4 to the witness? _
5 MR. BERRY: Just one, Mr. Chairman.
During the testimony of Charles Weil last Thursday, 6
7 September the 4 th, it came to the Staff's attention that 8 a document that had been marked for identification as ,
9 Staff Exhibit 7 had handwritten notations along the lef t 10 margin that had part of it cut off during copying.
11 Staff was requested to obtain a complete copy of f
12 those notations, and we have done so.
13- Prior to commencing, we distributed copies to the 14 Board and the parties.
15 I would suggest that we just substitute this
- 16 document for Staff Exhibit 7 or we could mark it as 17 Staff Exhibit 7A, whichever is easier for all the 18 par ties.
19 JUDG E G ROSSMAN : I think we'll just have the >
20 Reporter substitute that for the document in the record, i
21 if that's appropriate, as f ar as if there's no problem 1
22 with the Reporter, so we'll just have this as the 23 official Staff Exhibit 7.
l 24 MR. BERRY: Tha t's all I have.
- . 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN
- Anything further? Any other { }
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1 prelimina ry matters?
2 Mr. Gal'o.
l 3 MR. GALLO: Yes, there's one matter, but I
. 4 don't have the document here.
5 I will be distributing at a recess the Sargent &
l 6 Lundy Specification L-2790 conformed through Amendment 7 42, and that's the only thing I have.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Through 42. Okay.
9 So both I and Mr. Miller were wrong on that.
10 MR. G ALLO: No. Let me clarify.
11 The transcript -- I don't have the page at my I ) 12 fingertips, but the transcript clearly indicated 48.
13 It was my memory that off the record there was some 14 discussion as to the time frame of interest being 15 coincident with the time that Mr. Puckett was at the 16 site, and that would make it through 42, Amendment 42.
17 So what we have done is prepared one version of 18 L-2790 through 42 and another version of L-2790 through 19 48.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I believe that the version 21 we were interested in when we made the request was 22 through the amendment that made further reference to 23 D1.3 -- that is, subsequent to Amendment 30 -- and I
._. 24 believe that it was Amendment 46, so I'm not certain l
25 about that, and I'll accept Mr. Miller's statement that i
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1 it was Amendment 4 9, but I'm pretty sure that it was 2 subsequent t'o Amendment 42.
3 MR. G ALLO: W ell, I've attempted to cover all 4 contingencies, and we have one version throu,gh 42 and ,
5 one version through 48.
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6 JUDG E G ROSSMAN: Okay.
3 7 Now, my f ellow Board member, Judge callihan, I 8 believe, indicated that we had also requested at that 9 time an updated Form 1701, though I don't recall whether 10 we decided subsequent to requesting it that we had 11 already had the update.
d 12 Now, I'm a little hazy on that.
13 MR. G ALLO: Yes, if I could address that 14 point.
15 With respect to L-2790, the most current version of 16 Form 1701 is Revision G, and that's the one that's 17 already in the record.
18 Sargent & Lundy does have a more current version 19 through some subsequent provision, but it has not been s 20 added to Specification L-2790 for the Comstock work.
21 It's used by Sargent & Lundy in connection with other 22 activities. -
23 J UDG E G ROSSMAN: Okay, that sounds fine.
24 But we also then --
25 MR. GALLO: Judge, I'd be glad to furnish the l }
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1 other versions if Judge Callihan wishes.
2 J UDG E G ROSSMAN: Well, we'll hold off on I
3 requesting that until Judge Callihan has a chance to ,
- 4 decide whether he does want that; but we also requested .
5 the document that was signed by Comstock, which we do 6 not have at all in the record. ,
7 All we have. is the 2790 executed by Ernst, and 8 we're not involved with Ernst now, so we do want to find 9 out what it was that Comstock agreed to in, I believe, ,
10 1982.
11 MR. GALLO: All right. *
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- ( 12 I recall that the Board asked that question of Mr.
13 Kurtz, and it's going to be addressed in the testimony 14 that's under preparation on that matter.
15 I would like to advise the Board that we're going 16 to present three witnesses on this subject:
l 17 Mr. Kurtz, of course; a Mr. Treece, T-R-E-E-C-E, 18 who is the individual that prepared, compiled, L-2790 19 for both the Ernst and the Comstock contracts; and also 20 Mr. Costal, who will explain that the standards that are
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21 referred to in L-2790 originated under his l 22 responsibility and direction as a member of the 23 structural department of Sargent & Lundy.
{\ ,.., 24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Of course, you know, Ik 25 testimony isn't going to take the place of the documents Sonntaa ReDortina Service. Ltd.
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2 executed contract or specification by Comstock, we'll 3 want it, and we do want it now.
4 Now, I don' t mean we want it immediately, though as .
5 soon as we can get it the better we would like that, and 6 we'd appreciate having it.
7 If you think that just a little information might 8 mislead us and that you prefer to have someone present
- 9. the whole story, we won't force having an immediate 10 delivery of the document.
11 That's certainly your choice, Mr. Gallo. ,
12 MR. GALLO: We are compiling the contract 13 documents you referred to, an'd we intend to sponsor them 14 into evidence through Mr. Treece, and I certainly have 15 no difficulty whatsoever making them available as soon 16 as possible prior to the call of those witnesses.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine.
18 MR. GUILD: May I ask who Mr. Treece is?
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We would appreciate that.
20 Mr. Guild.
21 MR. GUILD: May I ask who Mr. Treece is?
22 MR. G ALLO: Mr. Treece is an engineer with 23 Sargent & Lundy in the electrical department. He was 24 responsible for the compilation and review and approval 25 of the Specification L-2790 that was included in the l I 1
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1 Ernst and Comstock contracts.
2 J U'DG E G ROSSMAN : Well, if that concludes our
- 3 preliminary matters, we'll return -- oh, Mr. Guild.
. 4 MR. GUILD: I just want to mention, Judge, 5 that I consulted with Mr. Gallo, and his estimation was 6 that when I conclude Mr. Archambeault, he's likely to
! 7 take the balance of the day with his examination.
I have made arrangements for Mr. Martin, Mr. Rick l 8
9 Martin, to be subpoenaed, and Applicant has agreed to 10 facilitate the transmittal of that document for service 11 and inform his supervision.
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(*- Q I 12 We expect to have him here at 9:00 in the morning 13 tomorrow.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: It seems to me as though 15 before we ever get to what's been discussed as ,
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i 16 Applicant's rebuttal case, that we may have a full week l 17 of hearing next week. )
l 18 Does that seem likely? )
19 MR. BERRY: Next week? j 1
20 JUDG E G ROSSMAN : Yes. 1 j 21 MR. BERRY: Well, I don't know. We still l
l 22 have Mr. Archambeault, Mr. Martin and we'll have Mr.
23 Little.
24 J UDG E G ROSSMAN : And perhaps Mr. McGregor, if x, 25 you can get OIA to move. l l
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O 1 MR. GUILD: Does Applicant anticipate calling 2 Mr. Treece as part of its case in chief or are they 3 going to await rebuttal for him?
4 It doesn't matter to me one way or the other, at .
5 the Board's pleasure or the parties' pleasure.
6 If Mr. Treece is going to talk about 2790, we ought 7 to add that to the list of witnesses to be expected 8 before we contemplate rebuttal.
9 MR. G ALLO: W ell, I think that the testimony 10 of Mr. Kurtz and Mr. Treece and Mr. Costal ought to be
- 11 considered rebuttal testimony. That's within, ,
12 certainly, the f ramework it was developed.
13 You recall we withdrew Mr. Kurtz' testimony.
14 At this point, it may be better characterized as 15 responding to a Board question.
16 I have no preference one way or the other, but it's 17 certainly not a part of the direct case.
18 JUDG E G ROSSMAN : Well, again, I'm not sure 19 that I would characterize Mr. Kurtz that way.
20 I understand that you wish to withdraw Mr. Kurtz 21 because the area was unsettled and you wish to give him 22 as much of the testimony on that matter as possible 23 before you reprepare him for testifying, but, again,
. 24 those are matters that you should have contemplated
!, 25 putting on in your case in chief, and, actually, in this l l l l Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd. 1 Geneva, Illinois 60134 )
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4 O l 1 case did, but not in the final version. ;
2 I don' t' know everything that Mr. Kurtz is going to 3 testify to.
. 4 MR. GALLO: I think that's probably what's 5 misleading the Board.
6 The Kurtz testimony -- it's under preparation --
i l 7 does three things:
8 It addresses this contract question that has been l 9 raised by the Board, and it addresses two other matters i
l 10 in rebuttal to the testimony of Mr. Puckett, and that's 11 it.
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12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. -
i 13 It's the first item that I wouldn't consider really 14 rebuttal, but in view of the f act that he has got 15 extensive other testimony, there's certainly nothing 16 obj ectionable about having him come in on rebuttal; and, 17 as a matter of fact, we're not taking a stand against 18 your putting on witnesses in rebuttal, even though, in 19 our view, they might have been technically considered 20 part of your case in chief, so I don't think the 21 characterization of that is really important.
) 22 I just didn't want it to appear as though we agree
! 23 completely with that.
l l 24 MR. GALLO: Yes.
, '% 25 The important point here is certainly with respect i -
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1 to Kurtz and the other witnesses, that their testimony 2 is under preparation and I'm responsible for that 3 activity, and it's on hold until I can turn my attention 4 to it, and I doubt it's going to be prepared and .
5 distributed in time for the hearings next week. Tha t 's 6 my only concern. W 7 If it were ready, I think we would be prepared to 8 go forward next week if it would fill a gap.
9 J UDG E G ROSSMAN : That's all right, Mr. Guild.
10 We don't need that camnent.
11 MR. GUILD: I wasn' t going to say a thing, 12 Judge. { j 13 J UDG E CALLIH AN : Mr. Gallo, these are 14 preliminary remarks following the Chairman's suggestion 15 that I look into 1701, 16 We have, as Applicant Exhibit 9, which you well 17 know, Form 1701, Revision G, like in George, dated 18 December 20, 1977.
19 I think my very basic question was, "Have there 20 been additional revisions"; and I don't want an answer 21 now.
22 J UDG E G RO'i SMAN : No. We got our answer, 23 Judge Callihan.
24 If I understand you correctly, Mr. Gallo, that is
, 25 the revision that was in effect for L. K. Comstock all l l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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2 the contractors, and that even subsequent to the time we j 3 have in issue it still binds, it is still the governing
. 4 document f or L. K. Comstock, although there is a 5 subsequent revision that applies to other contractors.
6 Is that a correct understanding?-
7 MR. G ALLO: It's correct with one i
i 8 clarifica tion:
f 9 That the other revisions that you refer to are not 10 used at the Braidwood site. They are used by Sargent &
! 11 Lundy in their other activities unrelated to Braidwood.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
13 So that even with regard to the other contractors 14 at Braidwood, the Revision G is the governing document?
15 MR. GALLO: That's my understanding, yes.
16 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Thank you.
j 17 JUDG E G ROSSMAN : Yes, Mr. Berry.
18 MR. BERRY: Just one clarification, Mr.
l 19 Chairman.
20 In reviewing the transcript from yesterday's 21 session, I notice, at Transcript Page 12081, I stated 22 that the Staff had referred the relevant portion of the 23 transcript to the Office of Investigations.
l , . .
24 I misspoke, and it should be the Office of 25 Inspections and Audit.
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Tha t's right, it was not the 2 Office of Investigations, but you used OIA throughout.
3 It was just that one reference.
4 What is the title for OIA? ,
5 MR. BERRY: I believe it's Office of 6 Inspections and Audit.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine.
8 Why don' t we then proceed with the witness.
- 9. Sir, you are still under oath. You remain sworn.
10 MR. GUILD: May I proceed, Mr. Chairman?
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, please.
12 MR. GUILD: Good morning, Mr. Archambeault.
13 DIRECT EXAMINATION 14 (Continued) 15 BY MR. GUILD 16 Q Yesterday, at the conclusion of my examination, I asked 17 you to identify what has now been received in evidence 18 as Intervenors' Exhibit 124, and that was the third of 1
19 three written requests for a transfer from the second -
20 shif t where you had worked f rom your hire until very 1 21 re cen tly.
22 Do you have a copy of that document before you?
23 A Yes, I do.
24 Q All right.
, 25 And preceding that immediately, about a month I I Sonntaq Repor ting Se rvice, Ltd.
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l 3 And that was your second written request for a I . 4 transfer?
5 A Yes, it was.
6 Q And do you have a copy of that before you?
7 A Yes, I do.
{
8 Q All right.
9 And preceding that request by another month, there 10 was your first written request for a transfer, and that I 11 is Intervenors' Exhibit 118, a June 2,1986, document.
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l 12 Do you have that before you?
13 A Yes, I do.
14 Q All right.
15 In addition to those three written requests, I i 16 understand from your testimony that on a number of j 17 occasions you orally discussed the pending request for 18 transfer with your supervision; is that true?
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19 A Yes, I did.
20 Q All right.
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21 A There were other transfers made also during this time.
22 Q Transfers of other QC Inspectors from the second shif t 23 to the first shift?
,. 24 A That's correct.
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\ j7 25 Q All right.
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12354 1 And all told, how many such transfers were made 2 during the period of time through your -- up until the 3 point when you had the meeting with Commonwealth Edison 4 and Comstock supervision in mid-August, how many .
5 transfers had been made from second to first shift?
6 A There were four. -
7 Q And can you identify who those persons were?
8 A The first one was Dennis Loss.
9 Q Okay. You referred to that already.
10 And that was the case where Mr. Loss was 11 transferred to the RTO program?
12 A Yes.
13 Q And.as you understand it, Mr. Loss didn' t request a 14 transfer but was given one?
15 A That's correct.
16 0 Okay.
17 And you hadn't yourself requested a transf er to 18 that program?
19 A No. -
20 0 So you had requested a transfer to first shift, had you 21 not?
22 A Yes.
23 0 And had you made clear your willingness to work in the
.. 24 RTO program or not?
.. 25 A I would have qualified for a position. l I l l
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l 1 Q All right.
2 In any event, you weren't given that transfer?
3 A No.
. 4 Q Okay, i
5 And second, then, was to whom?
6 A It was Ron Nelson, Ken Willoughby and a Les Peters.
l 7 Q Okay, i
8 And when were they transferred to first shif t, 9 appro ximately ?
10 A Around the latter part of July.
11 Q All right.
>I 12 Af ter your second request -- your second written 13 request -- had been submitted?
14 A That's correct.
15 Q All right.
16 And what was the circumstance, if you know, of the 1
17 transfer of those three gentlemen to the first shift?
18 A Harry Revels -- he approached me the earlier part of i- 19 July and said that management had three openings for
! 20 first shif t, one being an RTO, one being in 21 termina tions. At this time, there was only the two.
22 The ones that were asked was me, Ken Willoughby, 23 John Thomas was asked, Ron Nelson hadn't been asked yet, 24 so Barry Revels made it clear he had to have a decision l 25 in a couple days.
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1 Well, I changed my mind a couple times af ter 2 talking to my wife, but my final decision was -- I said, 3 "Yes, I'll go."
4 Q Did you communicate that to Mr. Revels? .
5 A Yes, I did.
6 Q And before this deadline when he said he had to hear?
7 A Yes.
I 8 As I said, about approximately two weeks later, the 9 men were transferred and I was not one of them.
10 Q All right.
11 The three that you mentioned, Ron Nelson, Ken 12 Willoughby and Les Peters?
13 A Les Peters hadn't been transferred yet. He was 14 transferred later.
15 Q You mentioned a name, John Thomas.
16 Let's see if we can keep the names straight.
17 Did Mr. Thomas also get transferred?
18 A No, he didn' t.
19 Q He declined the transfer? -
20 A Yes.
21 Q But it was asked by Mr. Revels?
l 22 A Yes. ,
23 0 So af ter two weeks transpired, Mr. delson and Mr.
24 Willoughby were transferred; is that right?
- , 25 A That's correct.
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12357 1 Q And you were not?
l 2 A No. l 3 Q And when did, then, Mr. Peters get transf erred? l
. 4 A It was around the first part of August. l 5 Q All right.
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6 A The thing there:
7 He was in welding, so I wouldn't have qualified for 8 that position. That's what he was transferred for.
9 0 Well, you had been hired on in January to inspect in 10 both the cable pulling and the terminations area, had 11 you not?
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( 12 A Tha t's correct.
13 Q And as you-previously testified, you had worked in both 14 terminations and cable pulling and been certified to
. 15 Level II at a number of other nuclear plants?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Four to be precise?
18 A Tha t's correct.
19 Q All right.
20 And you anticipated, when you hired on, that you 21 were going to get trained and certified in terminations 22 as well as cable pull?
23 A That was my understanding.
.. 24 Q And I take it -- were you experienced in the area of
(_ 25 terminations inspection?
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I I 1 A I feel I was. )
2 Q All right.
3 Now, I guess I heard you also say that at two or 4 more of your previous jobs, you had been certified .
5 across the Board in all electrical inspection 6 dis ciplines, including welding?
7 A That's correct.
8 Q All right.
9 So you had been qualified previously as a Level II 10 Inspector in welding?
11 A Yes, I was.
- 12 Q All right.
13 In your opinion, could you have qualified as a 14 Level II Welding Inspector at Braidwood with training 4
15 and indoctrination?
16 A With the experience I had, I could have.
17 0 All right.
18 But you were not offered any of the first-shift 19 transfer positions? -
20 A No.
21 Q Did you speak to anybody in supervision after early 22 J uly ? After the first two men were transferred, Mr.
23 Nelson and Mr. Willoughby, did you speak to anybody in 24 supervision about the reasons why they were given the
, 25 transfer and you were not? { l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. --
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1 A Yes, I did. I talked to Harry Revels and asked him why 2 that decisio'n had been made, and he really didn't give 3 me an answer at the time, j l
. 4 Q He said nothing in response, in substance?
5 A That's correct.
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6 Q All right.
7 Did he later give you an explanation for why you 8 were not given those transfers?
9 A Yes, he did.
10 Q All right.
11 And when did he do that?
12 A It was after the transfer took place. That was --
13 Q Af ter which transf er took place now? ,
14 A The two gentlemen, Ron Nelson and Ken Willoughby.
15 0 In early July; is that right?
16 A No. It would be the latter part of July.
17 Q The latter part of July. Excuse me.
18 A I was precutting a cable and he come up to me --
19 Q Mr. Revels?
20 A Mr. Revels.
21 -- and I don' t know if he was telling me it was in 22 confidence or not. He really didn't say. I took it he 23 was, but he didn' t specify that.
.. 24 He told me then Comstock's reasoning. Th ey f elt 25 that if they transferred me to first shif t, that the NRC Sonntac ReDortino Service, Ltd.
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G 1 would feel that they were trying to intimidate me by 2 taking me out of the cable pull area. I wasn' t happy 3 with his explanation.
4 Then he proceeded to tell me there had been rumors .
5 of a layoff in September or shortly after the fuel load
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6 of Unit 1, and he told me, which he later denied, that I 7 was misunderstood; but from my understanding that he 8 told me, I would be a prime candidate for the first 9 layoff, and it prompted me to go home and have my wife 10 retype my resume, and I did start sending resumes out, 11 and I do have answers from several companies after that 12 date.
13 0 All right, si r.
14 Now, I take it that, when you hired on in January, 15 you knew that you were hiring on for a job that was, at 16 least from the perspective of the company, nearing 17 completion?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q All right.
20 Did you anticipate that you might be subject to a 21 layoff at the end of the job when you hired on?
22 A Oh, yes, I expected that.
23 0 All right.
24 Well, then what obj ection, if any, would you have 25 to being on a list for layoff or being a prime candidate i I l,e Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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'N 1 for layof f ?
2 A I feel this 'is one way they weed out the people they 3 don' t want around.
. 4 0 All right.
5 Did you understand that you were somehow being 6 singled out for this layoff ?
7 A That's how I f elt.
8 Q Is that how you took Mr. Revels' comments --
9 A Yes, I did.
10 Q -- when he stated that you were a prime candidate for 11 layof f ?
/ 12 A That's correct.
13 Q Now, when you say that you understand Mr. Revels may.
14 have meant this comment in confidence, do you mean to 15 say that because of the nature of --
16 MR. G ALLO: Obj e ction.
17 It's leading the witness. :
i 18 BY MR. GUILD:
19 0 Why do you understand that -- why do you interpret the 20 context -- strike that.
21 What about the context, if anything, in which Mr.
22 Revels made these statements leads you to understand he 23 may have intended them in confidence?
24 A Harry has a bad habit of trying to play both sides of
. G
'\jk ) 25 the fence. He wants to stay true to management, he Sonntaq Reporting Se rvice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12362 0
1 wants to stay true to Inspectors; and he pulled me 2 aside -- you know, "Come over here. I've got something 3 to tell you," and diat's how I took it; but he didn't 4 say, you know, "I don' t want you to say anything about .
5 this." He just told me what he told me.
6 Q Did he ask you, as a condition for telling you this, to 7 keep it a secret?
8 A No, he didn't.
9 Q Did he tell you, "I'm only going to provide this 10 information to you if you promise that you won't 11 disclose the source or the nature of the information"?
12 A No.
13 Q All right.
14 It's simply the circumstance that leads you to 15 believe that he was telling you this and didn't want 16 others to hear it?
17 A That's correct.
18 0 That's by pulling you aside and such?
19 A Yes. -
20 Q Now, you say that you understand that Mr. Revels denied 21 saying this.
22 What's the basis for your statement to cnat effect?
23 A There was meetings held, which I requested, in August; I
_ 24 believe it was around the 19th.
,, 25 They had a separate meeting with Harry Revels and { l l
Sonntac Reportino Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 l 232-0262 l _ _ _ _
(312)
l 12363 d[h 1 got his side of the story; and I read the memorandum 2 that was prepared by a Commonwealth Edison QA and wasn't 3 happy with it. I believe there was a lot of f alse
. 4 statements in the memo.
5 Q Okay. I'm going to turn to that in a moment.
6 But was it in that memo that there were statements 7 that lead you to believe that they had talked to Mr.
8 Revels and he had denied making the statements you 9 quoted him making today?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Now, do you know whether the other gentlemen who ,
received the transfers to the first shif t -- Mr. Loss, (J } 12 13 you testified to, was transferred but not on his 14 r eques t.
15 Did Mr. Nelson and Mr. Willoughby make written 16 requests for transfer, to your knowledge?
17 A Mr. Willoughby did. I don' t believe Ron Nelson did.
18 I'm not sure.
19 Q Do you know whether Mr. Willoughby's request for 20 transfer preceded your initial request or not?
21 A I believe he requested a transfer before I did.
22 Q Okay.
23 How about Mr. Nelson: ;
24 Did he make a written request for transfer? l kJ h 25 A Not that I know of.
Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 i (312) 232-0262 j
12364 1 Q Okay. And ultimately Mr. Peters was also transferred.
2 And did' he make a written request for transfer? '
3 A No, he didn' t. ,
l 4 Did he make any request for transfer? ;
Q .
5 A No.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me. ,
7 Maybe you asked this question, but I didn't hear if 8 you did.
9 Did Mr. Revels tell you why you were a prime 10 candidate for layoff?
11 THE WITNESS: No. It's the way he -- he --
12 before he said this, he said that upper m'anagement was 13 coming to him asking questions about me -- about me 14 going to the NRC, and he didn' t - '.se didn't tell me 15 what they were talking about, but they were talking to 16 him about that matter.
17 BY MR. GUILD:
18 0 When you used the words " upper management," to whom did 19 you understand him to be referring? -
20 A I don' t know. He didn't say.
21 Q Comstock management, Edison management?
22 A That's -- no; Comstock.
23 Q Comstock management?
24 A Yes.
- 25 Q Now, Mr. Revels, f rom that conversation, you and he -- l I Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12365 1 strike that.
2 In that' conversation, you acknowledged having gone 3 to the NRC, is. that right, in the conversation with Mr.
- 4 Revels?
5 A Harry was aware of me going to the NRC.
6 Q And how was Mr. Revels aware that you had gone to the 7 NRC?
8 A Before I made my allegations to the NRC, I tried to 9 resolve the problems through Harry. I showed him a copy 10 of the letter which I had sent to NRC with my 11 allegations on it, hoping that it would motivate
-~
~s
- 12 Comstock ma' n agement to take care of these problems, but 13 it didn't.
14 Q Now, when you say you showed him a letter you sent to 15 the NRC, is that Intervenors' Exhibit 122, the 4-page 16 handwritten document?
17 A Yes, it is.
18 Q All right.
~
19 Now, again, it bears the date of June 4, '86.
20 But your testimony is that you prepared it after 21 this date, and that's just the date you contacted the 22 NRC first?
23 A That's correct, that's correct.
24 Q Okay.
25 Did you provide a copy of this memorandum, Sonntaa Reporting Se rvice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 _ - . _ . . _ . _
12366 I I 1 Intervenors' 122, to Mr. Revels before you sent it to 2 the NRC?
3 A No, I didn't.
4 0 In relation to when you sent it to the NRC, when did you .
5 give to it Mr. Revels?
~
6 A I didn't give it to him. I let him read it. ,
7 Q All right.
8 When did you let him read it?
9 That's my question.
10 A One other thing:
11 The letter I let him read was a rough copy of this.
12 This was rewrote.
13 Q All right, all right.
14 So it was not in this exact form --
15 A No; but --
16 Q -- but the same context?
17 A -- the same context.
18 Q I see.
19 A And he read the letter and I took the copy back. I -
20 didn't let anyone else have it.
21 Q Okay.
22 Now, I understood you also showed that same 1
23 document or was it the revised version or the rewritten i
24 version to a number of other Inspectors?
25 A It was a rewritten. I I Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12367 s
1 Q Okay.
2 The same form in which you sent it to the NRC --
3 A Yes, yes.
. 4 Q -- Intervenors' 122?
5 Did you give them copies?
6 A No, I didn't.
7 Q You just showed them and let them read it?
8 A That's correct.
9 Q All right.
10 You had already showed it to Mr. Revels at that 11 point; is that right?
I l2 A That's correct.
13 Q What response, if any, did you get from Mr. Revels when 14 you showed him this draf t version of Intervenors' 122?
15 A He said, "I guess you got to do what you got to do."
16 Q Was that with reference to taking the matters to the 17 NRC?
18 A That's correct.
19 Q Okay.
20 Now, can you pinpoint in time a little more 21 precisely when it was you showed Mr. Revels this 22 document and indicated that you were going to go to the 23 NRC?
, . _ . 24 A It was prior to my contacting the NRC. ,
(,f 25 Q You contacted the NRC, the record reflects, June 4, Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 !
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12368 i
O 1 1986, 2 A That's correct.
3 0 Was it a matter of days before that?
4 A I'd say a week. .
5 Q Okay.
6 Did Mr. Revels give any indication that he would 7 respond to any of the concerns that you had enumerated 8 in the memo that you showed him?
9 A Not up to that point.
10 Q Mr. Archambeault, I'm going to show you a copy of what's 11 been marked as Deposition Exhibit 11 -- -
12 MR. GUILD: I ask this be marked as 13 Intervenors' Exhibit 124 -- 125 -- excuse me -- 125 f or 14 identification.
15 (The document was thereupon marked 16 Intervenors' Exhibit No.125 for 17 identification as of September 10, 1986.)
18 BY MR. GUILD:
19 Q Now, Mr. Archambeault, did you prepare the body of this -
20 document?
21 A Yes.
22 Q All right. l I
23 I take it that the handwriting at the top,
. 24 " Received from Greg Archambeault, 1:45, 8/19/86," with b 25 initials, that is not your handwriting? i l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
l 12369 O
1 A No, sir.
2 Q Do you know whose handwriting that is?
3 A Pete LeSage. He's a second shif t MCIS supervisor.
. 4 Q All right.
5 And did you, in fact, provide a copy of this 6 document to this gentleman on the 19th of August?
7 A That's correct.
8 Q And what were the circumstances in which you gave this 9 to Mr. Lesage?
10 A Due to all the shop talk I was hearing, the things that d 11 I was told by Harry Rt:vels, this was putting a lot of 12 pressure on me. I felt it would start affecting' my job 13 perf orman ce.
14 I contacted Pete LeSage and told him I wanted to 15 have a meeting to try to solve these problems at the 16 site without going and filing a complaint with the 17 Department of Labor on a discriminatian charge.
18 Q All right.
19 Were you at the time contemplating filing such a j 20 complaint?
21 A Yes, I was.
22 Q and with regard to what circumstances?
l 23 A Not being transferred to day shif t after numerous 24 requests; no -- no indication of why I wasn't being 25 transferred; and other people being transferred who were Sonntaa ReDortina Service, Ltd. I Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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12370 I I 1 no more qualified than I was for the position.
2 Q All right, s'i r .
3 And on what basis at that point did you believe you 4 were being denied the transfer to the first shift? .
5 A The only thing I could assume it was due to was the
~
6 knowledge that I went to the NRC.
7 Q All right, sir.
8 So you asked Mr. LeSage to arrange a meeting.
9 And with whom did you want to meet?
10 A A representative of MCIS; my union steward -- do you 11 want the names of individuals?
12 0 Well, I want to know who you wanted to meet with first 13 and then I want to ask you about who you actually met 14 with.
15 A With all parties involved, so that would also include 16 Commonwealth Edison and L. K. C. and the NRC.
~
17 Q All right.
18 And for what purpose did you want to have this 19 mee ting ? -
20 A To try to resolve these -- I didn't consider them 21 rumors, but if they were, to resolve the matters and 22 just to find out what was going on, why I hadn't been 23 transferred to day shift and what the reasoning behind
. 24 that was.
,, 25 Q All right. I l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
! Geneva, Illinois 60134
( (312) 232-0262
12371 O
1 Now, with reference to Intervenors' Exhibit 125, it 2 appears to o'utline a series of events, many of which you 3 testified to in this proceeding, but beginning March --
- 4 February 28 -- excuse me -- 1986, ending March 20, 1986.
5 When did you prepare the outline of events that you 6 gave to Mr. LeSage on the 19th of August?
7 A I started 2/2 8/86.
8 Q All right.
9 Did you maintain some log or personal notebook in 10 which you made notations of events?
11 A *Yes, I did.
[ 12 Q All right.
13 And was it f rom that source that you derived this 14 outline ?
15 A That's correct.
16 Q And I take it, then, you maintained that notebook and 17 made entries for the dates that are shown on this 18 document?
19 A Yes.
20 Q And later compiled those entries into the outline that's 21 Intervenors' 125?
22 A Th at' s correct.
23 Q And when did you make the compilation of that
._ 24 inf orma tion ? When did you write the whole document?
25 A This particular document?
l Sonntaa Reporting Se rvice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 l
12372 O
1 Q Yes.
2 A It was af ter' 3/20, shortly af ter.
3 Q Shortly after 3/207 4 A Yes. .
5 Q With regard to this document -- let me see if there are 6 some matters in this document that, with reference to 7 the document, may ref resh your recall about certain 8 events.
9 MR. GALLO: Obj ection.
10 It's going to be the same objection and plus 11 another.
12 I don't believe the witness should be given this
{
13 document at the outset of the questioning. There's no 14 showing that this witness has a need to refresh his 15 m emo ry.
16 Secondly, the whole matter covered between the 28th 17 of February and March 20th of '86 was covered at length 18 yesterday, and I see no reason to continue to ask 19 questions in this redundant area. -
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, that's correct, Mr.
21 Guild, we are going a little slow.
22 I did hope you would speed up the questioning 23 today.
,, 24 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir.
1, 25 Well, I don't mean to be redundant, but Mr. Gallo's { l Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
Gen eva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 l
12373 O
1 position is somewhat inconsistent.
2 If, in ' fact, it's redundant, then I don' t know why 3 he has any objection to the witness --
- 4 J UDG E G ROSSMAN : Well --
5 MR. GUILD: -- making reference to it, but if 6 it's not redundant, Mr. Chai rman, that's the purpose of 7 raising the point.
8 There's a narrow question of f act that I want to 9 bring to the witness' attention that he neglected to 10 mention.
11 JUDG E G ROSSMAN : Well, the first point is 12 also valid, and that is that you really ought to ask 13 your questions independently of any documents, and only 14 refer to the documents to first refresh the witness' 15 recollection, and then if that does do the trick --
16 MR. GUILD: I'll be happy to do that, Judge.
17 BY MR. GUILD:
18 Q Mr. Archambeault, do you recall having two contacts with 19 Mr. Mark Diederich, Commonwealth Edison Company Quality 20 Assurance representative, with regard to problems that 21 you identified in the upper cable spreading room?
22 A Yes.
23 Q All right.
24 You mentioned only one of those when I asked you
,~
k, m
25 about contacting Mr. Diederich yesterday.
Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 ,
12374 I I 1 Do you recall your first contact with Mr.
2 Diederich?
3 MR. GALLO: Obj ection.
4 Does Mr. Archambeault have Intervenors' Exhibit 125 .
5 in f ront of him?
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes.
7 J UDG E COLE: Yes.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
9 Mr. Gallo is going to ask that you not refer to 10 tha t, and we'll agree with him.
11 Only if you are requested by counsel to refer to 12 the document and there's no objection, then you can, but 13 otherwise, please don't look at it.
14 THE WITNESS: Okay.
15 BY MR. GUILD:
16 0 When was the first time you had contact with Mr.
17 Diederich?
18 A Mr. Diederich was also up at the area when I notified my 19 su pe rvision. It was his job to monitor cable pulling, -
20 and that's all he was doing.
21 I didn't leave it out intentionally.
22 Q All right.
23 And did you, in fact, notify Mr. Diederich of the 24 cable problems you identified in the cable spreading
, 25 room at the same time as you notified your supervision? l I Sonntaq Reporting Se rvice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 ,
12375 I
(' l 1 A That's correct.
2 Q All right. ,
~
3 And what date was that, sir? Can you recall the
- 4 date without reference to the document?
5 A No, I don't.
6 Q Pardon me?
7 A No, I don't.
1 8 Q Okay.
9 Now, can I ask you if you would refer to the 10 document before you, Intervenors' 125, and if you look 11 at the chronology, the second entry you see there, does that reference to that entry refresh your recollection
)12 13 as to the date. on which you initia11y' had contact with 14 Mr. Diederich?
15 A Yes.
16 0 And what was that date?
l 17 A It was 2/28.
18 Q Februa ry 28, 1986?
19 A Yes.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's your initial contact?
l 21 THE WITNESS: Yes.
22 BY MR. GUILD:
23 0 When did you -- did you have contacts with Mr. Diederich l
l ,_ 24 thereafter?
25 A See -- yes, I did.
Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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l 12376 l
l I 1 Q Okay.
When did you next contact Mr. Diederich?
2 3 A Be monitors our pulls. I talked to him off and on.
4 I probably talked to him more than what this says I .
5 did about the matter --
6 Q All right.
7 A -- but -- but talking to him and asking him if he wanted 8 to take action on it.
9 You know, that's what I state in there.
10 Q All right.
11 And when did you first have contact with Mr.
12 Diederich and ask him if he wanted to take action on the 13 problems that you identified?
14 A That would have been on the 3rd.
15 0 The 3rd of March?
16 A 3/3/86.
17 Q All right, sir.
18 And what response did you get f rom Mr. Diederich on 19 that occasior.? -
20 A He was going to let us handle it. He -- he didn't feel 21 the problem was out of hand yet.
22 Q That's what he said?
23 A Tha t's right.
_. 24 Q All right.
,, 25 A I j ust gave him the option. If he wanted to do I I Sonntaq Reporting Se rvice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 _ _ _- _ __
12377 l
l 1 anything, he could.
~
2 Q And when he said, "Let us handle it," who is us? l 3 A L. K. C.
. 4 Q All right.
5 As opposed to Commonwealth Edison QA?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q All right.
8 Thereaf ter, did you have contact with Mr. Diederich 9 with regard to the issue of writing up the individual 10 cables?
11 A That's right. <
12 Q All right.
[-( .
13 And when did you have that contact with Mr.
14 Diederich?
15 Again, please don't refer to the document to answer 16 the question.
17 A This was all our discussion and the reasons given to me 18 why we weren't going to write the cables up.
19 Q Was that af ter you initiated the NCR?
20 A I believe so.
21 Q All right.
22 And can you recall now when, what date, you had j 23 contact with Mr. Diederich about writing up the l
l _
24 individual cables?
3 25 A Not out of my head.
Sonntac Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12378 I I 1 Q All right.
2 Would y'ou refer to Intervenors' 125, the last 3 entry.
4 A 3/20/86. .
5 Q That's what it says.
~
6 But does that ref resh your memory about when you 7 had contact with Mr. Diederich?
8 A It was af ter -- it was right af ter I wrote the NCR.
9 Q Was 3/20 right after you wrote the NCR?
10 A I believe so. )
11 Q Now, at that occasion, what response did Mr. Diederich 12 have to your question about individually writing up th~e 13 damaged cables?
14 A He didn't take any action on it.
15 0 All right, all right.
16 Mr. LeSage was contacted, given this memo, asked to 17 arrange a meeting.
18 And what response did Mr. Lesage give to you?
19 A He told me to come in the next night and talk to Tom -
20 Cartelli. He's the Site Proj ect Manager for MCIS.
21 Q And did you do so?
22 A Yes, I did.
23 0 And what response did Mr. Cartelli give you? ;
1
. 24 A That night he contacted Commonwealth Edison QA, and he j i
asked me if I would have a meeting with them, explain 25 l l Sonntaa Reporting Se rvice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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12379 O
1 the situation to them, and that night we did have a 2 meeting with' two gentlemen from Commonwealth Edison QA 3 and my steward was there and Tom Cartelli.
4 -
4 0 All right.
5 Now, according to Exhibit 125, Intervenors' Exhibit 6 125, you gave this -- according to Mr. LeSage's note, 7 you gave this document in at 1:45 A. M. on the 19th.
8 Did you have your meeting in the evening of the 9 19th? ,
10 A No, we didn' t.
11-
,.Q _ Was it on the 20th you had the meeting?
12 What- date did you have the meeting?
13 A I can' t remember.
14 0 But it was the next day, the day af ter you gave this to 15 Mr. LeSage?
16 A I'm not sure when I gave him the document.
17 Q Now, who was present at this meeting? Again, who by 18 name?
19 Who were the Edison representatives?
20 A Mr. Gieseker --
21 Q Yes.
22 A -- and I don't remember the second gentlemen's name, 23 Dalt ry o r --
- 24 Q Dougher ty ?
,1, 25 A -- Dougher ty, Mr. Dougherty.
l t
l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262-. . _ - . _ . - __
12380 l I 1 Q All right.
2 Did Mr. Cartelli mention --
3 A Mr. Cartelli was there and George Nemeth, th e 4 second-shift steward. .
5 Q Now, was Mr. Westberg of the NRC present?
6 A Not at this meeting, no.
7 0 This is a later meeting?
8 A It would be the meeting with all the parties involved.
9 Q All right, sir. So you had the first meeting.
10 And what transpired at that meeting?
11 A We -- I told them the situations I felt were happening, 12 I told them I'd like to get it straightened out in-house
~
13 without filing a complaint with the DOL, so they were 14 going to set up a meeting the next day with all the 15 people that I ached to be there.
16 Q And who elae did you ask to be there besides the people 17 at the first meeting?
18 A The L. K. C. people that were to be involved. I believe 19 it was Tony Simile and Robert Seltmann.
20 0 Okay.
21 A Then again, Commonwealth Edison Q A, Mr. Daltry, and --
22 e xcuse me --
23 Q Dougher ty ?
24 A -- Mr. Dougherty and Gieseker was there, j 25 Q All right. I I Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12381 i %
1 Was anyone else at the second meeting?
2 A Tom Cartelli, George Nemeth, and Mr. Westberg of the 3 NRC.
. 4 Q And the NRC representative?
5 A Right.
6 Q And Mr. Westberg, was he the Inspector you understood --
7 was he the Inspector that interviewed you previously on 8 your concerns?
9 A Yes, he was.
10 Q All right.
11 And he was there at your request?
12 A Yes.
13 0 Why did you ask that Mr. Westberg -- why did you want 14 Mr. Westberg present?
15 A I f elt he should be present in case any -- any names 16 came up.
17 Q All right, sir. !
18 What happened at the second meeting the next day?
19 A Nothing was solved. I 20 Q Did you discuss your concerns?
21 A Yes, we -- we talked about them.
22 Q And what response did you get from the Comstock 23 management?
24 A They felt the NCR -- they said there would be a
' !"C)\
. .(_ 25 reinspection of all the cables, as has been indicated. ,
l I
Sonntac Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 j
12382 I I 1 It doesn't say that on the NCR; but if that was the 2 case, I was -- I was satisfied.
3 0 Who said there was going to be a reinspection of all the 4 cables ? .
5 A The Q A Department of Commonwealth Edison.
~
6 Q Mr. Dougherty, Mr. Gieseker?
7 A I think Mr. Gieseker said it.
8 Q All right.
9 A They felt if I wrote up the cables I had looked at, that 10 I might have missed some.
11 Q That was Mr. Gieseker's explanation of why it was 12 appropriate not to list the damaged cables?
13 A Yes.
14 0 What response, if any, did those present have to your 15 concerns about not being transferred to the first shift?
16 A They really didn' t give me an answer. They just said 17 cable pulling was a priority and I was the man on second 18 shift.
19 Q Okay. -
20 Now, as you've testified, it was only thereaf ter, 21 after the 27th of August, that Mr. Simile finally gave 22 you a response to your third written request for a 23 transfer?
24 A That's correct.
25 Q Did Mr. Simile give you any response at this meeting? l l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 ,
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12383 i
1 A Just what I told you.
~
2 Q Just that he was the one who said that cable pulling was 3 a priori ty --
,- 4 A Yes.
) 5 Q -- and that you would remain on second shif t?
6 A Yes.
7 Q What, if anything, did Mr. Westberg, the NRC Inspector, 8 have to say?
9 A He said that the investigation of my allegations were 10 almost complete, and I think he said a couple were 11 valid, and he said the rest of them .were not due to the
, e 12 fact that many other Inspectors didn't share my views, 13 Q Views on what subj ect, sir?
14 A The -- the other allegations that I made.
15 Q What in particular was Mr. Westberg referring to at the 16 time ?
17 A I would say the -- say the statement about, " Inspectors 18 were only here for the money, no one cares." I do n ' t 19 remember the rest of the statements.
20 Q How about the sacrifice of quality for production 21 considerations?
22 A Tha t, too.
23 Q And what response, if any, did you make to Mr.
,, 24 Westberg's statement that many of the other Inspectors i
25 didn' t share your views?
Sonntac Reportina Service, Ltd.
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12384 i I 1 A I told him that the Inspectors would not come forward to 2 Quality Firs't, to L. K. C. or to the NRC because the 3 Inspectors -- they do not trust these organizations.
4 Q All right. .
5 Were you aware, at the time that you met with Mr.
~
6 Westberg -- and I take it all this was said in the 7 company of the Comstock and Commonwealth Edison 8 representa tives ?
9 A Yes.
10 0 Mr. Westberg's statements about what the other 11 Inspectors were telling him as well?
12 A That's correct.
13 Q All right.
14 Were you aware, at the time of that meeting, as to 15 the identity of any of the persons who Mr. Westberg had 16 interviewed?
17 A The -- the only people I heard was the ones I stated 18 yesterday.
19 0 Yes. -
20 Were you aware of those names at the time you had 21 this meeting, though ?
22 A Yes. I told him I was unhappy with the people that were 23 selected for an interview. These were the people.
24 0 Okay.
, 25 You told that to Mr. Westberg in the company of the I l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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12385 I
' j 1 Edison and Comstock people?
2 A That's correct.
3 Q And did you give any explanation of why you were unhappy
- 4 with the persons you had understood he selected?
5 A No, not at the meeting.
6 Q Did you give any explanation to him at any time?
7 A No.
8 Q Why were you unhapIpy with the people he selected?
9 A Because I felt the people that were selected were --
10 well, one was Bob Tuite. He's brought in on an 4
11 allega tion.
He's the subject of an allegation?
( )12 Q 13 A That's correct.
14 Q Okay.
15 Again, that's the question about inspecting to --
16 not using the installation procedure with regard to the 17 sequential marking of cable? ,
18 A Yes. ,
I 19 Q All right. l 20 Who else was --
21 A There was -- there was Mike Lechner. He's a good friend 22 of Bob Tuite and he's a Lead --
23 Q All right.
, ,. 24 A -- and he's talked behind my oack, I know that; and John
( 25 Thomas and Don Schirmer.
Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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12386 I I 1 Q All right.
2 Who is M' r. Thomas and who is Mr. Schirmer?
3 A They have been there for quite awhile. Th ey ar e local 4 people. .
5 0 All right.
6 Now, you state that you understood Mr. Lechner made 7 comments about you behind your back.
8 How have you heard that?
9 A From Ron Nelson.
. 10 Q Ron Nelson, again, is a QC Inspector?
11 A He heard -- he heard Mr. Lechner talking about me.
12 Q Mr. Nelson's an acquaintance of yours who was { }
13 transferred to the first shift?
14 A Yes, he is.
15 Q And he's a Cable Pull Inspector?
16 A Yes.
17 Q All right.
18 And what did Mr. Nelson recount to you that he l
19 heard from Mr. Lechner? -
20 A Mr. Lechner accused me of drawing on company time; said 21 I wasted -- you know, wasted time. l 22 I drew on my lunch hour. l 1
23 Q You do drawing in the course of your employment, I take 24 it, because I've seen some of your drawings, but you
- 25 also do drawing on your own time? I I I
1 I
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12387 O
1 A Yes.
2 Q Now, during 'the series of meetings, I take it they --
3 the meetings took place during your normal second shif t
. 4 work hours; is that right?
5 A Yes.
6 Q All right.
7 And I guess you can't be in two places at one time, 8 so I take it that when you were at the meetings, you 9 weren't performing inspection activities?
10 A That's correct.
11 0 Since the people present at the meeting included l l
f .
t 12 Commonwealth Edison Company representatives and your l 13 MCIS supervision, I take it that they were aware that 14 you were at these meetings and not doing cable pulling 15 activity ?
16 A Tha t's right.
17 Q Now, I'm showing you a document that --
18 MR. GUILD: I'd ask this be marked as 19 Intervenors' Exhibit 126.
20 It starts with the language, " Tony, hectic night,"
21 but bears no signature or date.
22 (The document was thereupon marked 23 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 126 for
_ 24 identification as of September 10, 1986.)
25 BY MR. GUILD:
Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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12388 1 Q Do you recognize the handwriting on this document?
2 A No, I don't.
3 0 And when have you seen the document before?
4 A I believe the deposition was the first time I seen it. .
5 0 All right. I showed it to you at your deposition.
~
6 Would you review the document a moment -- I know 7 you did at your deposition -- and can you identify the 8 author by the text of the document?
- 9. A Yes.
10 Q And who is the author?
11 A My supe rvisor, Harry Revels?
12 Q And the document recounts 'to Tony -- I take it Tony 13 Simile is Mr. Revels' supervisor; is that correct?
14 A That's correct.
15 0 All right.
16 -- recounts Mr. Revels' understanding of the 17 circumstances and his displeasure with your absence, 18 holding up a cable crew for seven hours total during the 19 course of these meetings. -
20 Did Mr. Revels ever speak to you directly about 21 that subject, holding up a cable crew while you were 22 having these meetings?
23 A No, he didn' t.
24 Q Did anybody in supervision ever criticize you directly j ,. 25 for asking that these meetings take place and i I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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12389 t
1 participating in these meetings to raise your concerns 2 instead of r'emaining in the field continuing your cable t
l 3 pulling inspections?
i
. 4 A The first thing I -- or anything I knew about this was 5 when you showed -- showed me the letter.
6 Q All right.
7 If you look at the second page of the letter, the 8 second paragraph toward the bottom of the page appears 9 to read, "I don't know, Tony. I've twisted and bent all 10 I can. I'm really getting tired of working with this 11 guy so that I can keep him working. If he wants the day f' 12 shif t transfer, you can have him. Other than Greg's 13 incident, everything went well. "
14 Now, did Mr. Revels ever communicate to you that 15 he had twisted and bent all he could and that he was 16 tired of working with you?
17 A No, he didn't.
18 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I'd ask that i 19 Intervenors' Exhibits 125 and 126 be admitted into 20 evidence.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
22 You are giving the Reporter, I think, a bad time by 23 not identifying these originally and he won't have any i ,,_ 24 pages to list.
l 25 But is there any objection now to the admission Sonntau ReDortina Se rvice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12390 I I 1 of --
2 MR'. G ALLO: I'd like to conduct some voir 3 dire on 125.
4 J UDG E G ROSSMAN: All right. -
5 VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. GALLO:
7 Q If I understood your testimony, Mr. Archambeault, that 8 you wrote this document, Intervenors' No. 125, based on 9 notes that you had taken and kept of the incidents that 10 .
are referred to; is that correct?
11 A Yes.
s 12 Q And do you still have those notebooks?
13 A No, I don't.
14 Q What happened to them?
15 A They were just on little -- a little pocket notebook, 16 and I threw away the information.
17 Q When did you do that?
18 A When I wrote this letter up.
19 Q I wasn't clear as to your testimony as to when it was 20 you wrote this letter.
21 Was it shortly after March 20, '86, or was it prior 22 to giving to it Mr. LeSage in August of '86?
23 A That was wrote, I'd say, around 2/28 or thereafter. I 24 can't remember the exact date, because I usually write a
- _/ 25 rough copy of something and then I'll go back and l l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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a 12391
! I rewrite it with all the information in that letter.
2 Q I don't mean to try to confuse you or trap you, but the 3 last matter that's noted on this document, Intervernors'
. 4 125, is dated the 20th of March, so I assume it had to 5 be at least not written until after the 20th of March.
6 Is that a fair assumption on my part?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Now, does that help you recall when you had written this 9 document?
10 A No. Bits and pieces were wrote. As I said, I 11 transferred a lot of information from my notebook to a y 12 rough form.
13 Q I see.
14 So you transferred the information from your 15 notebook to a draf t --
16 A That's correct.
17 Q -- as you went along, as the events occurred; is that --
18 A Tha t's correct.
19 Q -- is that the case?
i 20 And then later you finalized it in the present
- =
l 21 form ?
22 A That's right.
23 Q When did you do that?
,. 24 A It would be after 3/20/86.
/
25 0 Can you give me -- obviously it was before August 19, Sonntac Reportina Service, Ltd.
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12392 1
till 1 '86. I l
2 Was it ' closer to August 19th?
3 Can you somehow give me some clue as to when it was 4 written? .
5 A I don' t remember.
6 Q You don' t remember.
7 The notebooks that you no longer have, did they 8 contain other items besides these items that are shown 9 on 1257 l
10 A N o --
11 0 The notebooks simply --
12 A -- no.
13 Let me -- that and the items that were wrote' on the 14 letter I sent to the URC, my concerns.
15 Q So the notebooks were notes of the events on 125 and the 16 events that are reflected in your letter to the NRC?
17 A That's correct.
18 0 So this document is based on a draf t which, in turn, is 19 based on notes which you no longer have? -
20 A That's correct.
21 Q Do you have the draft?
22 A No, I don't.
23 JUDG E G ROSSMAN : Excuse me.
24 I'm not sure. Are you saying you have no idea of
, 25 when you wrote this final draf t between March 20th and I l Sonntaa Reporting Se rvice, Ltd.
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'N 1 August?
2 TH'E WITNESS: It was af ter 3/20/86. It may 3 have been the day after.
- 4 I can' t remember the exact day I wrote it.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, so you are saying you 6 finalized this very shortly af ter 3/20?
7 THE WITNESS: That's correct.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
9 BY MR. G ALLO-:
10 Q So the answer to my question was that you finalized 11 this, and although you can't remember the exact day, it 12 was closer to March 20, ' 86, than it was to August 19,
(
13 '867 14 A Yeah.
15 MR. GALLO: All right.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And are you also saying that 17 all you had in the notebook, in that whole notebook, was 18 what's here and plus something on a meeting on 125?
19 MR. GALLO: No. I believe his testimony was 20 that it was what's on here and what's reflected in the I
- 21 NRC letter that he sent -- or in the letter that he sent 22 to the NRC.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I see.
,_ 24 And that's all you had in that notebook?
,( 25 MR. GUILD: 125 was the -- l Sonntao Repor tino Se rvice, Ltd.
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l l
12394 O
1 THE WITNESS: Yes.
2 MR'. GUILD: 125 was the exhibit number, 3 Judge.
4 Mr. Gallo just referred to it as 125 -- .
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm sorry.
~
6 MR. GUILD: -- just as the exhibit.
7 BY MR. G ALLO:
8 Q And you no longer have the draf t or the notebooks that 9 served as a basis for this memorandum?
10 A No.
11 -
MR. GALLO: I have no objection to the 12 admission of 125 and 126.
13 JUDGE GROSGMAN: Mr. Berry?
14 MR. BERRY: Staff has no objection, Mr.
15 Chairman, to either document.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAM: Okay, fine.
17 We receive these.
18 (The documents were thereupon received 19 into evidence as Intervenors' Exhibits -
20 Nos.125 and 126.)
21 BY MR. GUILD:
22 Q All right.
23 Now, the meeting took place -- the two meetings 24 took place to which you testified, including the latter 25 involving the NRC Inspector, Mr. Westberg. Westbe rg Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
Geneva, Illinois 60134 1 (312) 232-0262 ;
12395 l recounted that many Inspectors didn't share your views 2 and you disa'g reed with him.
3 After the. meeting was over, did the comments by Mr.
. 4 Westberg cause you to take any action, Mr. Archambeault?
- 5 A Yes.
6 Q And what action, if any, did you take?
1 7 A I typed up a questionnaire with 12 questions on it 8 concerning quality.
9 Q All right.
10 And what did you do with that questionnaire? j 11 A I handed it out amongst Inspectors.
12 Q All right. .
13 How many did you hand out? !;
14 A At the deposition I said 12, but it was actually more.
l 15 It was approximately 14.
! 16 Q 14, approximately ?
17 A Appro ximately.
18 Q All right.
19 And did you make any statements to the persons to i 20 whom you handed the document on the subject of 21 confidentiality or anonymity?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And what did you say to them?
I . . .
24 A I said that the questionnaire was just to show that I l i<
', 25 wasn't the only one that felt the way I did, and that l
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12396 1 you don't have to sign your name to it.
2 Q All right.
3 Did you state what -- did you make any statements 4 about maintaining the confidences of the persons whom .
5 you gave the questionnaire if they didn't put their name 6 on it?
7 A I told each of -- the people I remember handing it out E to, I told them I wouldn't say anything.
9 Q You wculd not identify them?
1C A I wouldn' t -- I wouldn't bring their name up.
12 Q All right, sir.
12 And did you subsequently get any of those 13 questionnaires returned?
14 A Yes.
15 0 And how many were returned?
16 A I believe seven.
17 Q All right.
18 And --
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me, Mr. Guild. -
20 Are we going to get into these questionnaires and 21 have a problem with confidentiality?
22 MR. GUILD: I hope we're not going to have 23 any problem, but, yes, we are going to get into these 24 questionnaires.
, 25 JUDG E G ROSSMAN : Why do you hope there won't I I Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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l - _ _ . _ .. _ _
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12397 1 be a problem; because you think everyone will agree that 2 they are confidential or everyone will agree that they 3 are not confidential?
- . 4 MR. GUILD
- No, that they are confidential; l
5 not that the questionnaires are confidential, but the 6 identities of the persons who completed those 7 questionnaires are confidential.
- 8 J UDG E G ROSSMAN
- Well, Mr. Gallo, do you 4 9 anticipate we're going to have a problem there?
i l 10 MR. GALLO: Yes, I believe that I would 11 object to the use and questioning on the questionnaires ;
12 and their admission into evidence unless this witness is 13 prepared to identify the individuals who filled out the 14 questionnaires. ,
15 What we have as part of the record, as far as the
- 16 deposition goes, is a number of questionnaires; I 17 believe about seven. They are simply filled out without 18 any date or signature or any indication of who they were 19 furnished to, and that's the state of the record at the 20 moment.
21 Mr. Guild will correct me if I'm incorrect in this 22 matter.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild, I don't see how
,._ 24 we can accept any evidence like that, anonymous l
\
25 evidence. l i
l l
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12398 tlIll l 1 Mr. Gallo is certainly entitled, as Mr. Berry is, l l
2 to cross-examine on whatever you intend to rely on.
3 MR. GUILD: Well, sir, I think that's a fair l 4 general statement, but I haven't reached that point yet, .
5 and I'd just as soon, if the Chair will indulge me, 6 complete this line of examination.
7 I'm not trying to evade the question. If I can 8 reach it in due course, I would like to be heard on it, 9 and, of course, Mr. Gallo shot'ld be heard as well.
10 J UDG E G ROSSMAN: W ell, I'm trying to 11 anticipate the problems now; and I think if you are 12 going to rely on that, you ought to be prepared to *know 13 that there's a good likelihood we're not going to 14 respect any confidentiality that was offered by the 15 witness to any of these matters.
16 MR. GUILD: Well, I understand the Chair's 17 views at this point.
18 May I proceed?
Yes.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN:
20 MR. GUILD: All right.
21 BY MR. GUILD:
22 0 In addition to the questionnaires you got back, Mr.
23 Archambeault, did you of fer the questionnaires to 24 anyone -- any persons who declined to take one or fill I I
_- 25 one out?
l l
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12399 O
, 1 A I think there were people that declined.
2 Q All right.
3 A Ron Nelson -- I also gave him a copy and asked him if he
- 4 would -- see if he could get some guys to fill it out, 5 and I believe he had several guys decline. They didn' t j 6 want to get -- it's not that they didn't feel the way I 7 did. They just didn't want to get involved.
8 Q Mr. Nelson told you that?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Mr. Nelson is your acquaintance on the first shif t?
11 A Yes.
i He wouldn't fill one out himself.
(J )12 13 Q He wouldn't fill one out himself ?
14 A That's correct.
15 Q Did he explain why he declined to fill one out?
16 A He just felt that -- the way many Inspectors feel, that 17 they would be drug into this.
18 Q He said that?
Yes.
19 A 20 And they would be some way blacklisted or the --
! 21 well, the general feeling that the Inspector gets is 1
22 they'll be looked down upon by management.
f 23 Q If they completed one of these questionnaires?
I p,.
24 A Yes.
j' 25 Q All right.
1 l
1 l l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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12400 I I 1 Now, before I return to the questionnaire point, 2 did you take any further action with regard to -- did 3 you later get a copy of a memo that memorialized, fr om 4 the company's point of view, what happened at the .
5 meeting on the 19th?
6 A Yes, I did.
7 Q All right.
8 And how did that memo come into your hands?
9 A George Nemeth, my -- the second shift steward, gave it 10 to me.
11 Q All right.
12 And can you describe the circumstances in which Mr.
13 Nemeth gave you that memo?
14 A He just called me at home and he told me he had 15 something he thought I might need.
16 0 He then subsequently gave it to you?
17 A That's correct.
18 0 All right.
19 And I take it that -- do you know whether the -
20 company, Commonwealth Edison Company or Comstock, 21 intended for you to have a copy of that memorandum of 22 the meetings in which you participated?
23 A I don't know.
24 Q Have you ever gotten a copy sent to you f rom 25 Commonwealth Edison or L. K. Comstock? I l l
Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 !
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12401
,m (v
1 A No.
2 Q All right.
3 Or the NRC?
4 A No.
5 Q And did you cause to be prepared a memorandum -- did you 6 prepare a memorandum making corrections, comments, about 7 the Edison memorandum of the meeting of August 19th?
8 A Yes, I did.
9 Q All right.
10 And why did you prepare such a memorandum?
11 A Because I believe that there are statements in the I memorandum that are f alse.
(} 12
13 Q All right, sir.
14 Let me show you a copy of a one-page typewritten 15 document and ask if you can identify it --
16 MR. GUILD: Let's identify this as 17 Intervenors' --
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: 127.
19 MR. GUILD: -- Exhibit 127, 20 Thank you, Judge.
21 (The document was thereupon marked 22 Intervenors' Exhibit No.127 for 23 identification as of September 10, 1986.)
24 BY MR. GUILD:
(, Q Now, is this a document that you prepared, Mr.
f 25 i
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12402 O
1 Archambea ult?
2 A Yeah. It was in a -- it was a last minute, so there may 3 be a typing -- grammar errors.
4 Q All right. -
5 Well, we'll give you a chance to fix those, if you 4
6 would like.
7 But last minute in the sense -- when did you 8 prepare this document?
9 A I got it the Monday before my deposition.
10 Q Your deposition was on a Wednesday, I believe, so it was 11 two days before your deposition?
12 A Yeah.
13 Q All right.
14 And was this the day you got a copy of the 15 memorandum of the August 19th meeting?
16 A Yeah, I picked it up Monday af ternoon.
17 0 All right.
18 And prepared this memorandum thereaf ter?
19 A Yes. -
20 Q That evening?
21 A Yes.
22 0 Okay.
23 Now, the memorandum that you were responding to, is 24 this the memorandum?
25 (Indicating.) l l l
Sonntaq Reporting Se rvice, Ltd. l Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
i 12403 1
1 I'm showing you an attachment to your deposition. i 2 It's a part 'of Group Exhibit 2. It's entitled 3 " Memorandum to D. L. Sh amblin f r om M. R. Dougherty and I
I l - 4 J. W. Gieseker. Subj ect: L. K. Comstock QC Inspector G.
1 5 Archambeault," dated August 27, 1986.
4 .
6 A Yes, it is.
7 MR. GUILD: All right.
8 Mr. Chairman, I don' t intend to offer the company's 9 memorand um.
I 10 I take it that it's been handed up to the Board by 11 counsel for the Applicant.
12 It was distributed to the parties on or about 13 August 27, 1986 -- I understood prepared at Mr. Gallo's
,1 14 direction -- summarizing these meetings.
15 I leave it to the company if they wish to ask that 16 it be offered; but I do have a copy of it, and since Mr.
17 Archambeault's commentary refers to pages and sections 18 of that memo, I'm going to direct his attention to the 19 memo.
20 MR. GALLO: Your Honor, I have no obj ection l
~
l i
'. 21 if Mr. Guild wants to mark it as an exhibit and 1 22 introduce it into evidence.
23 MR. GUILD: I don't intend to do that.
l 24 May I proceed, Mr. Chairman?
k, 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, you may, i
l Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd. I
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12404 I I 1 MR. GUILD: All right.
2 BY MR. G UILD:
3 Q Now, let me follow along on your memo that's been marked 4 as Intervenors' 127. ,
5 "Af ter I read this memorandum, I was very angry.
6 Things I had said were twisted around or 7 misinterpreted." j 8 All right. Now I'm skipping down. Your first 9 reference to the memo is Page 3, the 2nd paragraph, 9th 10 line.
11 All right. Now, the language I'm looking at in the 12 August 27th Edison memo reads, "Cartelli said that the 13 Inspector was upset about this shop talk and had told 14 Cartelli that it may have af fected some of his 15 inspections."
16 Now, is that the language to which you are 17 referring in your memo?
18 Would you like to read it?
19 A No, I didn't say, "May have af fected some of my .
20 inspections." I said it might start to affect my job 21 performance.
22 Q Okay. Let me take one step at a time.
23 The language you are referring to in your memo --
,, 24 again, Page 3, Paragraph 2, the 9th line -- is that the
,, 25 portion I just read? { }
l 1
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1 A I believe so, yeah.
2 Q Okay.
. 3 Now, you had a conversation with Mr. Cartelli, I
. 4 take it?
5 A Yes.
6 Q All right.
7 Now, is it your position that you didn't say that 8 to Mr. Cartelli?
9 A No.
10 Q Okay.
11 What did you say to Mr. Cartelli?
I 12 A I said that. it may start to affect my job performance. ,
13 Q What was "it"? What may start to affect your job 14 pe rf orman ce ?
15 A These rumors and shop talk.
16 Q All right.
17 And why did you believe that it may start to affect 18 your job performance?
19 A Because several nights before this, I was out precutting 20 a cable, and I allowed the craf t to cut 300 foot of the 21 wrong conductor size. The craf t didn't catch it and I 22 didn't catch it until we were putting the tags on it.
23 The cable was -- wasn' t pulled in. It was put in an
,. 24 area and tagged for non-safety cable use only and we 25 went ahead and recut the correct size conductor.
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12406 O
1 I then decided right then that I was going to slow 2 down regard 1'ess of who said what to me and kind of 3 double check myself. In other words, I was going to do 4 my job regardless and try to get this matter took care ,
5 of.
6 Q All right.
7 Now, why do you believe that there was a 8 relationship between your failing to catch this problem 9 of the wrong size cable and --
10 A Because --
11 0 -- the events you have been testifying to?
12 A Because this particular night, Ron Nelson told me he was 13 talking to a gentleman on day shif t who is a f riend of 14 Bob Tuite's, and Ron Nelson asked this gentleman how he l
15 felt about me coming to first shif t, and the gentleman 16 said that he didn't think it was a good idea because 17 there was people out af ter my ass.
18 Q All right.
19 'And that had an effect at this time, in your 20 opinion, on your failure to identify this wrong size 21 cable?
22 A Yes, it affected my -- it just had me angry.
23 0 All right.
24 The next reference to the Edison August 27th memo
,, 25 is Page 4, Paragraph 4, to Page 5, the rest of Paragraph }
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1 4.
2 Let's s'ee if I can find that reference. Paragraph 3 4, all right.
, 4 Now, this begins to describe at A, " Arch ambe ault 5 expresses a concern about how he was asked to write a 4
6 Non-Conformance Report by T. Simile in March, 1986."
7 And is that the portion of the Edison memo to which J
8 you are referring?
9 A Yes, it is.
10 Q All right.
! 11 And in what respects, if any, is that memorandum an 12 inaccurate reflection of -- inaccurate or incomplete 13 reflection of what was said at the meeting?
14 A Up until this point -- up until the meeting, no one had 15 said anything to me about reinspecting all the cables.
16 Q All right.
17 And does the memo infer to the contrary, that 18 someone had told you before?
19 A That's correct.
i' 20 I was told at the meeting that the cables -- all ;
21 the cables will be reinspected.
22 Q All rig'ht.
23 Is there a reference in the memorandum, Page 4 or 5, ;
4 24 to a reinspection of the cables? ,
i 25 A No, I don't see anything in there. l Sonntac 'Recortina Se rvice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12408 1 Q All right.
2 The next reference, Page 5, Paragraph B, "The point 3 I was trying to make here was production versus quality 4 and sometimes that's the way it happens. " ,
5 And had you made -- did you make that point in the 6 meeting?
7 A Yeah; that's the way I felt, yes.
8 Q All right.
9 And you communicated that to those present in the 10 second meeting?
11 A Yes. !
12 Q All right.
13 Page 7, Paragraph E, you make reference to, "The 14 point here is how long has this been happening and how 15 many times was the work procedure violated due to being 1
16 told we did not work to this by B. Tuite."
17 Now, is that a reference to Mr. Tuite's remark that 18 you didn't work to the installation procedure?
19 A Yes, that's correct.
20 Q And, of course, subsquently that instruction was 21 countermanded and you were all retrained and that, 22 indeed, 4.3.8 was part of your instructions and 23 procedures?
24 A Yes.
25 Q The question being how long had people been operating I I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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12409 1 under Mr. Tuite's erroneous instruction?
2 A That's right. . 1
]
l 3 Q Did you get an answer to that question? l l- 4 A No.
]
l 5 Q Page 8, Paragraph 6, and Page 9, "In this case it's my
~
6 word against Harry Revels."
7 .
Now, let's turn to that page.
8 I take it this is the portion of the document where
- 9 they quote Harry Revels from a meeting that preceded the 10 meeting you attended?
11 A I think it was before the meeting I attended.
-( 12 Q That's what I mean to say.
13 Mr. Revels met with them earlier and that's where 14 they quoted him as disputing your version of his 15 statements to you; correct?
16 A Tha t's right.
17 Q Page 8, under 6, "A brief meeting was then held with the l
l 18 second shif t QC supervisor, H. Revels. Revels was asked 19 whether or not he told Archambeault that," quote, "'L.
20 K. C. 's cost or s chedule, ' " unquote, "did not penait the
- 21 listing of cables individually. Revels said that 22 Archambeault had misunderstood the reason for not 23 listing each cable on the NCR for the cable spreading
- 24 room. Revels stated that he had not used the words,"
l (, 25 quote, "' cost and schedule, '" unquote, "during this I Sonntaa Reportino Se rvice, Ltd.
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12410 l l 1 discussion, but he had told Archambeault that listing 2 each cable w'as unnecessarily time-consuming because all 3 the cables would have to be reinspected anyway. Revels 4 indicated that he of ten talked with Archambeault and ,
5 that Archambeault sometimes misinterpreted what he 6 said."
7 Now, did Mr. Revels ever'say to you that all the 8 cables were going to be reinspected anyway?
9 A No.
10 Q Now, if Mr. Revels didn't use the words " cost and 11 schedule," did he state, as you previously testif.ied --
12 MR. 'GALLO: Obj ection.
13 BY MR. GUILD:
14 Q Did Mr. Revels use the terms " cost and schedule," the 15 specific words " cost and schedule"?
16 A I don't believe he used them, from what I can remember.
17 The way he said it was about they didn't have the 18 man-hours or it wouldn't be -- it wasn't in the scope of 19 work. -
~
20 Q And in substance, is that what you quoted Mr. Revels as 21 saying when you met with Mr. Gieseker and others?
22 A We talked about man-hours. If you are talking about 23 man-hours, to me you are talking about costs.
24 0 All right.
, 25 You understood Mr. Revcis to be referring to cost { l 1
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T 12411 1 considera tions ? l 2 A Yes, that's ' correct.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me. j 1
4 Why don't we take a break now and why don't you 5 have the witness review that memorandum during the
!~ 6 break.
, 7 MR. GUILD: All right, fine, Judge.
l l 8 (WHER EUPON, a recess was had, after which 9 the hearing was resumed as follows:)
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine. W hy don' t you 11 proceed, Mr. Guild.
12 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, over the recess, I 13 spoke with counsel for Applicant, and perhaps have an 14 agreed-upon approach to expediting this line of 15 e xamina tion.
16 What I propose to do is to have marked Mr. Gieseker i
17 and Mr. Dougherty's memorandum for identification only.
18 I don' t propose to offer it, and believe it's only 19 appropriately offered by Applicant with a sponsoring 20 witness, since the matters that are documented are in
' ~ '
21 contest, and that's the purpose of my line of inquiry.
22 But I propose to mark, and I would mark, the August 23 27th memo as Intervenors' Exhibit 125 for identification .
], 24 only, and --
l 25 JUDG E COLE: We' re up to 127 already.
i 1
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1 MR. GUILD: I misread my number.
2 JU'DG E GROSSMAN: This should be 128.
l 3 MR. GUILD: 128 then. Sorry.
4 -- 128 for identification only, and do not desire .
5 that it be received as an exhibit in evidence, but ask 6 that it be included only in the record for purpopes of 7 showing context --
l 8 J UDG E G ROSSMAN : As a reference document --
9 MR. GUILD: Yes.
10 J UDG E G ROSSMAN : -- to put the witness' 11 testimony in context?
12 MR. GUILD: Indeed, that's correct, Judge.
13 (The document was thereupon marked 14 Intervenors' Exhibit No.128 for 15 identification as of September 10, 19 86.)
16 JUDG E G ROSSMAN: Okay. We'll have it 17 admitted for that limited purpose.
1C If Mr. Gallo wants to offer it later for a broader 19 admission, we'll consider it at that time. -
20 (The document was thereupon received into 21 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No.
22 128.)
23 BY MR. GUILD:
24 Q All right, sir.
- 25 Mr. Archambeault, did you review the portion of the l l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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12413 O l 1 memorandum that's now been identified as Exhibit 128 for l i
2 identifica ti~on, that portion with respect to Mr. Revels' 3 statements ?
. 4 A Yes.
5 Q All right.
6 And do you agree with the recitation in the 7 Gieseker and Dougherty memorandum of Mr. Revels' 8 statements? Does that memorandum of Mr. Revels' 9 statements accurately reflect what Mr. Revels told you?
10 A No, he didn't say costs and scheduling.
11 Q All right.
( 12 He, in substance, referred --
13 MR. G ALLO: Obj ection.
14 I'm --
15 MR. GUILD: Is there an objection?
16 MR. G ALLO: Yes.
17 June Grossman, the questions on the Revels 18 conversation regarding cost and scheduling have been 19 asked and answered prior to the recess. We've moved 20 well past that item in the recitation of inquiry on 21 Intervenors' No. 127.
22 I would object that further questioning is 23 repetitive and not called for.
24 MR. GUILD: Well, sir, as I recall, the last 25 reference in the Gieseker memo was, indeed, to that Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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1 portion. If I'm mistaken, I stand to be corrected.
2 But one' purpose for asking the witness to review 3 the document over the recess was to determine exactly 4 what the context was of his statements in Intervenors' ,
5 127 where it says, "I am not a liar"; in ef fect, tha t 6 Greg -- that Harry Revels said what Mr. Archambeault has 7 testified he said.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
9 My recollection is we hadn't moved past this point.
10 _
We were on the point when we recessed.
11 BY MR. GUILD:
12 0 I understood your testimony to be earlier that, in 13 substance, Mr. Revels referred, as you understood him, 14 to the subj ect of cost and schedule considerations, 15 though not using those words; is that correct?
16 A That's right.
17 When I put, "I'm not a liar," in this, it wasn't to 18 just reflect the cost and schedule. It was his 19 statement of me misinterpreting him. .
20 Q All right.
21 And do you believe you misinterpreted Mr. Revels?
22 A I may have on some things, but I don't believe the way 23 he's -- he's stating it bere.
24 Q All right.
,. 25 In what respect might you have misinterpreted Mr. I l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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l Revels, if at all?
2 A The example 'of cost and schedule, I didn' t say he did 3 say cost and schedule. It's the way he talked of it.
. 4 0 All right.
5 And you understood the reference to be to cost and 6 schedule if he didn't use those words?
7 A Yes.
8 Q All right.
9 You make reference further in your memo, 10 _
Intervenors' 127, to Page 12, Paragraph B, "It is 11 stated" -- I'm reading f rom your memo now - "It is
,e 12 stated that other Inspectors would not support me.
13 Several of the Inspectors interviewed were a poor 14 choice." You go on and explain why some of them were 15 poor choices. Then you go on and you say, "Also, I have 16 questionnaires filled out by other Inspectors that shows 17 that some other people out here feel the same. They 18 just don't trust any one of these organizations, L. K.
l 19 C. , CECO, Quality First or the NRC, nor do I anymore. "
20 Now, in fact, after you had this meeting, heard 21 what Mr. Westberg had to say, heard what the Comstock 22 and Edison people had to say about your concerns, you
, 23 draf ted a questionnaire and circulated it as you 24 testified; is that correct?
( 25 A Yes, I did.
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12416 till l 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me, Mr. Guild.
2 Have you offered 127?
3 MR. GUILD: If I haven' t, Judge, I mean to, 4 and I will do so at this time. .
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I take it, Mr. Gallo, you 6 have no obj ection?
7 MR. G ALLO: No objection.
8 MR. BERRY: Nor does the Staff have any 9 objection to 127.
10 J UDG E G ROSSMAN : Okay. We'll admit 127. I 11 We've already admitted 128 in a limited form or in 12 a limited scope.
13 (The document was thereupon received into 14 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No.
15 127.)
16 BY MR. GUILD:
17 Q Now, when did you prepare the questionnaire, Mr.
18 Arch ambeault?
19 A After the meeting. -
20 Q Bow long after the meeting?
21 A I'm not sure.
22 0 Was it a matter of weeks or days?
23 A No; days.
24 Q Okay.
, 25 And I show you a copy of a document with a cover { }
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O 1 memo -- it appears over your signature -- and a two-page 2 blank set of questions.
3 (Indica ting . )
. 4 And is that the questionnaire you prepared with 5 explanatory cover memo?
~
6 A Yes.
7 J UDG E G ROSSMAN : By the way, Mr. Gallo, will 8 you be giving us copies of 128?
9 MR. GALLO: I'm sorry, your Honor, I didn't 10 hear you.
11 JUDG E G ROSSMAN : Will you be giving the Board
\ 12 copies of Intervenors' Exhibit 128 when you have a 13 chance?
14 MR. GALLO: I believe they have already been 15 provided as a part of Board notification.
16 MR. GUILD: I'd be happy to make additional 17 copies if it would help the Board and parties.
18 There was a previous circulation of that document l 19 by Applicant, Mr. Chairman.
20- J UDG E G ROSSMAN: Oh, okay. !
21 Then we must have it. l l
22 JUDGE COLE: We don't have it here with us.
23 MR. GUILD: Would you like me to make copies?
24 I can do that, i
25 JUDGE COLE: I would appreciate it, yes.
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12418 1 MR. GUILD: Okay.
2 Mr. Ch a'i rm an, I've handed the witness and the Board 3 and the parties a copy of a blank questionnaire with the 4 explanatory memo, and I'd ask these documents be marked .
5 as Intervernors' 129 for identification.
l 6 (The document was thereupon marked l 7 Intervenors' Exhibit No.129 for 8 identification as of September 10, 1986.)
9 BY MR. GUILD:
10 Q Mr. Archambeault, I'm looking at Page 16 of your 11 questionnaire. At the top, there appears to be a 12 paragraph.
13 And was this intended to explain the questionnaire?
14 A Yes. i 15 0 The language reads, "This questionnaire has been made up :
16 to give those the freedom of voicing their views without 17 having to be identified. This questionnaire has not !
18 been made up by the management or the utility. Its only 19 purpose is to let us voice our opinion or views without 20 going to the NRC, quality programs or management. j 21 Please answer all questions truthfully and fully. You 22 may if you want to sign your name. It is totally your 23 decision and is not required as stated above." :
24 Now, why did you solicit answers to these
,,, 25 questionnaires anonymously, Mr. Archambeault? l I Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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12419 1 A Because I get -- I get tired of hearing people say there 2 are no prob 1' ems at Braidwood when there is.
3 0 Why did you use the device of providing them an
. 4 opportunity to voice their views without having to be 5 identified ?
6 That's your language, "without having to be 7 identified."
8 Why anonymously?
9 A Because Inspectors will not go to any organizations.
10 Q That's your opinion?
11 A No. That's what -- that's general talk. -
12 Q All right.
13 Well, that's your opinion based on the talk that 14 you heard?
15 A Yes.
16 Q All right.
17 And is that your personal opinion as well?
18 A Yes.
^
19 Q All right.
20 Now, you ask a series of questions -- let me ask --
21 let me stop there.
22 There's a memo on the front of the questionnaire, 23 Exhibit 129, over your signature. There's also a memo 24 on the back.
25 Do you see the last page of the set of documents?
i l
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12420 l l 1 A Yes.
2 Q All right.
3 Did you author the last page as well, typewritten 4 page? .
5 A Yes, I did.
6 Q Okay.
7 Now, when did you prepare the last page?
8 MR. G ALLO: Obj ection.
9 Can we approach the bench?
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Certainly, 11 Do you wish the witness to --
12 MR. G ALLO: I think we should excuse the 13 witness.
14 J UDG E G ROSS MAN : Okay. Mr. Archambeault, 15 would you please -- okay. Go through there.
16 (Witness excused.)
17 JUDGE COLE: He can sit back there.
18 MR. GUILD: I'll come get you. l l
19 MR. G ALLO: Do I have the Exhibit 129? Th e - l 20 last page is this one page?
21 (Indica ting. )
22 MR. GUILD: Yes, it's got this typewritten --
23 MR. G ALLO: It's got this typewritten note; 24 and I anticipate that counsel is going to introduce into
, 25 evidence Intervernors' 129. { }
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I 12421 I
I 1 Now, Intervenors' 129 includes the first page, 2 which is sel'f-explanatory, with the questionnaire. That 3 is one unit.
4 The last page is really the first page of a 5 document that was furnished at the deposition, and
~
6 attached to the last page was all the questionnaires, 7 the anonymous questionnaires, and it refers to the 8 anonymous questionnaires.
9 I anticipate that the purpose of introducing this 10 last page and eliciting questions on this last page is 11 to show that the witness, in fact, obtained n *
' questionnaires and, et cetera, et cetera, without 12 13 introducing the questionnaires at all, and I believe 14 that without the questionnaires, this page and questions 15 on this page should not be allowed and have no probative 16 value, unless the questionnaires themselves are 17 introduced and the identity of the individuals who wrote 18 out the questionnaires are known.
19 MR. GUILD: Yes. It was inadvertent that the i 20 last page was attached.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I take it you have no l 1
22 obj ection to the first three pages, and that if we l l
23 separated out the last page and withheld any adsission 24 of that last page --
25 MR. G ALLO: And question --
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l 12422 ;
1 tilli ,
1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- subject to your making 2 obj ections t'o having the contents of the questionnaires l
3 or a ny s umma ry of tha t, that would be acceptable to you?
4 MR. GALLO: Do I understand counsel's .
5 receding from at least offering as an exhibit at this 6 time the last page?
7 MR. GUILD: Yes, and I'm -- let's join the 8 issue of the questionnaires next; but it was 9 inadvertently stapled together.
10 JUDGE GRCSSMAN: Okay, fine.
11 -
We are now for the record removing the fourth and 12 last page -- the fourth being the last page of 13 Intervenors' Exhibit 129, and we now have a three-page 14 document, which is the cover page and the two-page 15 sample questionnaire.
16 MR. GUILD : Mr. Chairman, what I propose to 17 do is have the last question answered only for purposes 18 of identifying for the record what that page was and --
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine. -
20 MR. GUILD: -- not having him express an 21 opinion.
22 JUDG E G ROSSMAN: Why don't we mark for 23 identification that last page as Intervenors' Exhibit 24 130.
,> 25 MR. GUILD: All right, sir. That would be { l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 fine.
2 (The document was thereupon marked 3 Intervenors' Exhibit No.130 for
. 4 identification as of September 10, 1986.)
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Neither of these exhibits 6 having been offered yet.
7 MR. GUILD: All right. Can we bring the 8 witness back, then?
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes.
10 MR. GUILD: May I proceed, Mr. Chairman?
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, please.
. .s 12 BY MR. GUILD:
(
13 Q Mr. Archambeault, over the recess, we've separated the 14 last page from the previous three and marked it as a 15 separate document, and that's Intervenors' Exhibit 130.
16 Let me rephrase the question I posed to you before 17 the bench conference.
18 . And that was:
19 Did you prepare the last page that's now marked 20 Intervenors' Exhibit 130?
. l 21 A Yes, I did.
22 Q All right.
23 Did you prepare this af ter you got the 24 questionnaire back?
25 A That's right.
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1 Q All right.
2 And doe's this summarize your opinion about the 2 content of those questionnaires?
4 A Basically. .
5 0 All right.
6 Now, as you have testified, you got back a total of 7 seven questionnaires completed; is that correct?
8 A Yes.
9 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I'm handing the 10 witness a stack of documents that were made available at 11 the witness' deposition, handing up copies to the Board ,
12 and parties.
13 (Indicating.)
14 BY MR. GUILD:
15 Q Now, what I have handed you is -- are these the 16 completed questionnaires that were returned to you?
17 A Yes.
18 JUDG E G ROSSMAN: These are marked as 19 Intervenors' Exhibit 131. -
20 MR. GUILD: 131, indeed.
21 MR. BERRY: As a group exhibit.
22 MR. GUILD: Fine.
23 (The documents were thereupon marked 24 Intervenors' Group Exhibit No.131 for 3 25 identification as of September 10, 1986.) { }
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1 BY MR. GUILD:
2 Q Now, was it 'f rom these completed questionnaires, seven 3 in number, tha.t you prepared the summary document that's
. 4 been marked as Intervenors' 130; that is, the one 5 paragraph typewritten memo?
6 A Yes.
7 MR. GUILD: All right.
8 Mr. Chairman, now, at this time I would offer in 9 evidence Intervenors' Exhibits 129, 130 and 131.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I take it no objection to 11 129, Mr. Gallo; is that correct?
12 MR. G ALLO: No objection.
13 MR. BERRY: No obj ection f rom the Staff.
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's admitted.
15 (The document was thereupon received into 16 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No.
17 129.)
i 18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Now, with regard to 130 and 19 131.
20 MR. GALLO: I would object on the grounds 21 that the -- well, on several grounds.
22 First, that the lack of identification -- I 23 understand that they are being offered still on the
. 24 basis of anonymity, and that this witness will not N. 25 identify the authors of various documents, and on that Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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12426 I l 1 basis, I would object to the admissibility on the 2 grounds that' there's a lack of foundation for the 3 admission of these documents, both 130 and 131.
4 Let me explain that point. If 131 is excluded, ,
5 then there's no foundation for the statements made in 6 Exhibit No. 130.
7 The admission of these documents on a confidential 8 basis is highly prejudicial to my client, and without 9 the identification of the individuals involved, it's 10 pr ejudicial, too, for that reason.
11 Finally, and although hearsay is admitted in this
~
12 proceeding, at some point hearsay reaches a 1evel where 13 it has no probative value and should not be admitted, 14 and that point is reached with respect to Intervenors' 15 Exhibit 131 because of the anonymous nature of the 16 individuals who have allegedly filled out these forms.
17 THE WITNESS: Can I ask a question?
18 Does that mean that these aren't going to be )
19 considered at all? -
20 MR. GUILD: That's the point under discussion 21 right now, Mr. Archambeault.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: A discussion in which you are 23 not involved, Mr. Archambeault. It's a legal matter.
i 24 MR. GUILD: May I be heard, Mr. Chairman?
,, 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, unless Mr. Archambeault { }
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'l is somehow representing that they are no longer 2 confidential'. l 3 THE WITNESS: I'd talked with several of the
. 4 guys that I know turned them in, and they say if their 5 name comes up, their name comes up because I'm under 6 oath.
7 BY MR. GUILD:
8 0 In other words, if you are asked and compelled to 9 answer, that you would answer?
I 10 A That's correct.
ll Q At your deposition, Mr. Archambeault, counsel for the ,
12 Applicant asked you to divulge those names and you 13 declined to do so on the basis of the belief that you 14 had made a ccanmitment of confidentiality; is that 15 correct?
16 A At that time.
17 0 All right.
18 And have you been relieved of that commitment of 19 confidentiality now?
20 A I talked to several of the guys; yes, I did.
l 21 Q All right.
22 And does that communication with several of the --
23 when you say " guys," I assume you mean persons --
f_
24 A Inspectors.
(
25 Q Let me finish.
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12428 l l 1 -- persons who completed the questionnaire?
2 A Yes.
3 0 All right.
4 And did they give you permission to use their names .
5 now ?
6 A They said that if I'm under oath, if the name comes up, 7 then the name comes up. They won't hold it against me.
8 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I would like, 9 nonetheless, to approach this issue first by way of 10 offering these documents in the confidential form.
l 11 I understand the witness' testimony now to be that '
12 if worst comes to worst, they won' t hold it against him, 13 but they clearly were completed under the 14 understanding -- the questionnaires were clearly 15 completed under the understanding that they were being 16 treated anonymously. I believe they are appropriately 17 admitted in this form.
18 If I may first address that point. j 19 Routinely survey evidence, polling evidence, -
20 questionnaire evidence, is sought with the understanding 21 that such evidence is acquired under the assurances of 22 confidentiality. l 23 There's testimony already in this record from 24 social science experts about that approach.
.' 1
,3 25 I think the more controversial the information is I I Sonntaq Reporting Se rvice, Ltd.
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1 1 that's sought in a questionnaire, the more critical j 2 anonymity is to assuring accuracy in the responses that 3 are given.
. 4 We have here a circumstance where the witness, Mr.
5 Arch ambe ault, to his credit, has, in his own f ashion, 6 sought, and I think very effectively, to employ what are 7 social science techniques in obtaining confirmation of 8 an opinion which he personally holds about conditions at 9 the site and which, on the basis of statements made to 10 him by others before the questionnaire, he believes are 11 generally-held opinions on the site, but which are 12 disputed by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission Inspector 13 and by, apparently, the Comstock and Commonwealth Edison 14 Company personnel who attended the meeting that's been 15 described. In short, th ey say, "Others don't agree with 16 you, Mr. Archambeault. "
17 Mr. Archambeault drafts the questionnaire, with an 18 explicit assurance of confidentiality that appears in 19 its introductory paragraph, and circulates them.
20 He, as he testified, has people who nonetheless 21 decline to respond because they don't want to get 22 involved. Others respond, presumably with the belief 23 that their names will be held in confidence.
_, 24 Only now facing not using their questionnaire at 25 all do we understand that if worst comes to worst, th ey Sonntac Reportina Service, Ltd.
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1 may be willing to have their names used.
2 I still' don't understand that as expressing 3 anything other than the original belief or preference 4 that their names be held in confidence. ,
5 So the first point is that I think these responses to the questionnaires meet all of the generally-accepted 6
7 tests for admission of scientific survey evidence.
8 Let me direct the Board's attention to Federal Rule 9 of Evidence 703, which specifically has to do with the 10 subj ects of bases of opinion testimony by experts.
11 Now, the notes -- the Advisory Committee notes to 12 that rule state, in part -- I'm looking at -- in my copy 13 of the federal rules, West Federal Rules, it appears at 14 Page 246. The note reads, in part, "The rule also 15 offers a more satisfactory basis for ruling upon the 16 adnissibility of public opinion poll evidence.
17 Attention is directed to the validity of the techniques 18 employed rather than relatively fruitless inquiries 19 whether hearsay is involved," and then there are .
20 citations to articles and authority.
21 Indeed, Mr. Archambeault has expressed an opinion, 22 an opinion of an expert, an opinion of an expert within 23 the meaning of the federal rules, someone who has, 24 because of his training and background and expertise and 25 knowledge, useful opinion evidence to offer to this { j Sonntaa Reportino Service, Ltd.
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1 Board. ;
2 He expr'ssed e the opinion initially to the Nuclear 3 Regulatory Commission, and that was, as he's recounted i
. 4 today and yesterday, generally concerns about quality 5 being sacrificed for quantity at the siter fear in the 6 form of intimidation; reluctance to identify l 7 deficiencies on the part of QC Inspectors.
8 That's opinion evidence, opinion evidence that i 9 persons are reluctant to express their views to the NRC 10 and that, therefore, the NRC is unlikely to get an 11 opinion of Inspectors at the site.
g 12 That opinion evidence is reflected in -- the basis 13 for that opinion evidence is reflected in the completed 14 seven questionnaires, and that opinion evidence is 15 summarized in Mr. Archambeault's one-paragraph memo 16 which has been identified as Intervenors' Exhibit 130.
17 As is contemplated by Rule 703, then, the question i 18 comes down to what is the basis for opinion evidence 19 being offered by Mr. Archambeault on this score?
20 Now, while 703 explicitly says that opinion 21 evidence is admissible whether or not the bases 22 themselves are admissible, we, Intervenors, seek to ,
a 23 buttress that opinion evidence by offering the bases,
..... 24 and in this case, that's the anonymous questionnaire.
25 Now, we concede that the lack of identity of the Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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1 individuals hampers the ability of the adverse parties 2 to probe the' basis, but that would be the case with any 3 scientific survey evidence at all where there were blind 4 questionnaires used, a common social science device. ,
5 The inquiry then becomes as to the effectiveness of
~
6 the methodology, the effectiveness of the questions, the 7 sample, but not the identity of the individuals, and 8 that is commonly a limitation on probing expert opinion 9 evidence of this sort 10 We dor.'t believe it's of any different character, 11 therefore, from other expert opinion evidence and the 12 basis for that evidence.
13 The last point:
14 Here we' re dealing with a . circumstance where 15 there's all the reason in the world to want to know 16 whether or not there is any basis for Mr. Archambeault's 17 opinion that Inspectors are reluctant to identify 18 quality problems or complain to authorities because of 19 fear of reprisal. -
20 What we've now been offered is what I think highly 21 probative evidence that confirms Mr. Archambeault's 22 opinion evidence, highly probative evidence.
23 Notwithstanding the anonymity of the sources, it has 24 suf ficient probative value that it should be admissible.
, 25 I would offer the survey responses, Intervenors' Sonntac Reporting Serv.ce, Ltd.
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12433 l
1 131, and Mr. Archambeault's summary statement of his 2 opinion derived f rom those opinion survey responses, 3 Intervenors' 130, in evidence at this time in their 1 4 present form.
5 JUDG E GROSSMAN : Mr. Guild, you've addressed 6 one of the problems, which is admitting the documents 7 for their content, but before you even get to that, you 8 also have the problem of authenticating the 9 questionnaires, and you haven't addressed that.
10 It may, in the context, be a minor problem, but I 11 would think that Mr. Gallo has to be afforded some way 12 of determining whether these,' in fact, are authentic 13 questionnaires.
14 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir, I'll be happy to 15 address that.
16 It seems to me the question was put to the witness, 17 "Are these the questionnaires that you got back," and 18 the witness attested to the f act they were.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well --
20 MR. GUILD: I believe that sufficiently 21 authenticates them as copies of the questionnaires that 22 were presented back to him by those who responded. I 23 If there's further problem with authentication that i 24 occurs to the Board that counsel is not aware of, I'd be 25 happy to address that.
I(
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12434 i l 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: W ell, tha t m ay be s o.
2 Mr. Gallo, can we hear f rom you on this?
3 MR. G ALLO: Yes.
4 I think that the -- I'd like to address both ,
5 points.
6 On the authentication, I do not concede that. In 7 fact, even if this witness were to testify that these 8 documents were received by him from unnamed individuals, 9 that is not enough authentication.
10 I think the authentication that is required is the 11 identity of the individuals who assertedly have filled s
12 out these questionnaires.
13 That's important for two reasons:
14 First, the obvious reason that the Board raises; 15 and secondly, we would want the opportunity to seek out 16 the individuals and to corroborate the substance of the 17 questionnaires.
18 As to --
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, that really is a -
20 second point, Mr. G allo.
21 Having raised the question myself, I'm inclined to 22 decide that that really isn't a real question.
23 The witness, to th'e extent his testimony is 24 credible, can authenticate that they are samples.
, 25 We're really talking about the content, and that's {I }
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1 the important question here.
2 I'm sorry to interrupt you, but I just want to make 3 that clea r. ,
. 4 MR. GALLO: Well, I don't believe Rule 703 is l
5 applicable.
6 Intervernors' 130 has been characterized as opinion 7 evidence of this witness as an expert.
8 I have not addressed that question because I don't 9 see any opini.on in Intervernors' 130.
10 What he's testifying to is, in f act, what he 11 believes are facts that controvert what the NRC 12 apparently told him during one of the meetings.
13 If you look at the second and the next to the last 14 sentence of this, after the third sentence, this is in 15 regard to comments made by the NRC that other Inspectors 16 didn't share my views on concerns I had brought up.
17 So clearly this summary in Intervernors' 130 is 18 simply controverting the asserted statements, as I 19 understood them, by the NRC Inspectors; and I view 20 Intervernors' 130 as nothing more than controverting the 21 factual matters of whether or not other Inspectors exist 22 who support his viewpoint. l 23 He is not offering any opinion with respect to the
._, 24 content of these questionnaires in terms of their f 25 significance from a safety standpoint or harassment Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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1 standpoint. He's not offering expert opinion in that 2 fashion.
3 So I think, in terms of offering Intervernors' 130 4 and 131 as essentially factual evidence, that is ,
5 essential for that f actual evidence, to have probative 6 value, to know the identity of the people, the authors 7 of the questionnaires, and without it, they should be 8 e xclu ded.
9 J UDG E G ROSSMAN : W ell, I don't think the 10 difficult problem is with regard to whether the witness 11 is an expert.
12 My tentative opinion on that is that he's not; but 13 I don't think the problem then goes away as to whether 14 or not we want to admit some sampling evidence here, 15 because then I think Mr. Guild has recourse to some of 16 his previous witnesses, his experts and/or a new expert, 17 and he can bring them in and use this sampling.
18 I think we really want to tackle the issue of 19 whether this sampling is sufficient and would not be -
20 unf airly used against Applicant if there were not an 21 opportunity to cross-examine on the content, and I think 22 we have to tackle the question of whether its use just 23 as a sample is what we're interested in rather than an 24 examination of the people who filled out the
- 25 questionnaires to see whether, what their surface i I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 feelings are, can be supported by the facts, and whether 2 they could b'e in some way, well, impeached or would 3 change their position under questioning by adnitting
. 4 that they were mistaken in some way.
5 In other words, that goes beyond using the 6 questionnaires as a sampling; and I'm not sure that the 7 two methods of using the questionnaires can really be 8 addressed tne same way.
9 Now, my thoughts are a little hazy on this --
10 MR. BERRY: Mr. Chairman --
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- and I do n' t know tha t I 12 have a handle on that completely.
.(
13 Mr. Gallo, I think I interrupted you.
14 If you have something further to say, please.
15 MR. G ALLO: Well, I see two uses for 16 Intervenors' 130 and 131 if they are admitted.
17 One is in findings that, indeed, other Inspectors 18 have concerns which they feel that they can't bring 19 forward to the NRC and to Commonwealth Edison and to L.
20 K. Comstock, and that this witness' testimony is, l 21 therefore, buttressed by his position with respect to 22 the extent of concerns held by various QC Inspectors at 23 Comstock -- or I should say held by the QC Inspectors at
,.. 24 Comstock. That's one use.
25 And without being able to probe into the authors of Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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l 12438 l l I 1 these questionnaires and the bases for their answer, we 2 would be pre'judiced to that extent.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. That is addressing 4 the question of using it as a sampling. .
5 MR. G ALLO: I'm going to get to that.
6 As f ar as using it for a sample, then the expert 7 who might use it as a sample would have to accume that 8 the answers are accurate and the sample was taken under 9 circumstances that are appropriate for use as opinion 10 evidence.
11 It seems to me that if 131 is admitted into i
12 evidence, the expert would simply be asked, " Ass uming 13 that the questionnaire was properly framed, assuming 14 that the questionnaire itself was handed out to these 15 people and the survey properly conducted, and assuming 16 that the answers are those of the Quality Control 17 Inspectors, what judgments can you draw?"
10 It seems to me that that type of testimony simply 19 would be inappropriate.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Mr. G allo, I'm 21 thinking in terms of not even having an expert sponsor 22 these, but accepting this as a sampling, but only as an 23 indication of what the persons would be responding to a 24 sample questionnaire as a surface response, which is 25 what a sampling gives you, rather than adopting these Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd. ,
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l 1 items as what individual QC Inspectors actually feel l 2 about the company if the basis of their feelings were l 3 pro bed.
. 4 In other words --
5 MR. G ALLO: Yes, I understand now, your 6 Honor. I misunderstood you before.
7 In other words, these would be admitted into I
8 evidence and could be used by the parties as a basis for 9 findings to suggest inferences to be drawn on a sampling J 10 basis, which the Board could then either accept or 11 reject or accept in part or reject in part, depending on 12 its judgment of the eviden*ce.
13 It seems to me that that's inappropriate because 14 the information would not be probative and admissible 15 for use because we need evidence as to whether or not 16 the sample results are reliable, and the kind of 17 testimony that is needed with respect to that is the i
18 total population of Inspectors, how the sample is 19 representative of the total population, how the 20 questionnaire is structured so that it is calculated to 21 get unbiased answers.
22 This witness is not an expert and able to answer 23 those questions; and, therefore, I would think that on
_s 24 the basis the Board suggests as a possible way to admit 25 No.131, it should not be admitted for the reasons I've Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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2 M R'. BERRY: Mr. Chairman, can the Staff be 3 heard?
4 J UDG E G ROSSMAN : Ce rtainly. .
I 5 MR. BERRY: Mr. Chairman, Staff believes that 6 perhaps we could short-circuit all of this and avoid a 7 lot of potential problems that are lurking on the 8 horizon on this by just adnitting the evidence for the 3 purpose that the witness testified he compiled it.
10 ,
Really, Intervenor Exhibit 130 states and the 1
11 -l witness, I believe, has testified on the stand this 12 morning that he prepared the questionnaire and 13 circulated it to respond to a statement made to him by 14 the NRC that other Inspectors didn't share his views and 15 were reluctant to express their views or their concerns 16 unless they .were accorded complete confidentiality.
17 I believe that Intervenor Exhibit 131 and also 18 Intervenor Exhibit 130, you know, perhaps should be 19 admitted limited for the purposes of rebutting, you -
20 know, this statement that apparently was made to the 21 witness by the NRC; that, in fact, QC Inspectors would 22 respond or, you know, would state a concern, would 23 speak, if they were accorded some confidentiality.
24 Now, I believe you can do that; you know, that this
- 25 evidence has a limited relevant purpose without as to { }
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12441 1 the substance, the truth or even the content, you know, 2 of the responses to the questionnaire.
l 3 The witness testified he prepared this
, 4 questionnaire to respond to, rebut, a statement made to j 5 him apparently by the NRC Inspector and others in 6 attendance at that meeting, and, I mean, that's what he
- 7 has done. Intervenor Exhibit 131 purports to respond 4
8 and rebut, you know, that statement.
9 I would argue and suggest that it is admissible and 10 limited for that purpose without regard to the truth or i 11 f alsity of the content of the underlying documents.
- -. i j 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN
- I believe that is a valid 13 point, Mr. Berry; but then we still have to tackle the i
14 problem as to how f ar that evidence can be used.
15 MR. BERRY: Well, the Staf f --
i 16 JUDG E G ROSSMAN : I think certainly it could 17 be used to rebut that point brought up by the Staff and 18 certainly would have that limited -- well, we' re not 19 deciding it fully now, but it seems to me as though it i 20 could be admissible for that limited purpose.
21 But then Mr. Guild will be relying on those 22 questionnaires further than just that, and it would be 23 used as affirmative evidence as a sampling of what the l ,_, 24 Inspectors actually feel.
i(/ 25 MR. BERRY: Well, Mr. Chairman, we need l Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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12442 l l 1 perhaps further explanation for counsel for 2 Intervernors'.
3 As I heard Mr. Guild, he indicated he was offering 4 these for the basis of the opinion. .
5 The opinion, as I've stated and I understand 6 reading Intervenor Exhibit 130, is that this 7 questionnaire shows that the Inspector would v.oice his 8 opinion if he is kept anonymous or he feels he can trust
- 9. someone.
10 If that's the opinion that -- you know, the 11 Intervenor Exhibit 131 supports that, I think that's 12 what it's offered for, and the Staff would like it to be 13 consistent with the limited admissibility I spoke of 14 earlier. We would have no problems with that.
15 I haven't heard counsel for Intervenor so far 16 indicate that he's offering Intervenor Exhibit 131 for a 17 broader purpose as to establish the truth of the taatters 18 reflected in the responses to the questionnaire.
19 MR. G ALLO: Judge Grossman, may I ask if 20 counsel has stipulated on behalf of the NRC Staff that 21 Mr. Westberg indeed made the statement attributed to him 22 by the witness on direct?
23 MR. BERRY: No, I'm not stipula ting that.
24 MR. GALLO: Then I don't know what's being 25 rebutted here. I l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 MR. BERRY: The witness' testimony.
2 MR'. GALLO: Rebutting his own testimony?
3 Well, I'm.out of turn; and I just wanted to clarify
!- 4 that point, ,
I 5 MR. BERRY: If, in the event there is no 6 evidence, it's not established that the NRC Inspector 7 did make the statement, well, this evidence, under the 8 procedure that I spoke of earlier, would have no 9 relevance at all.
10 But what I was suggesting is that to the extent 11 it's relevant, it would be relevant to explain why this 12 witness prepared Intervenor Exhibit 130 and 131.
13 According to his testimony, it was because he was
- 14 told at that meeting, in which apparently the NRC 15 Inspector attended, that according to the witness, other 16 Inspectors he interviewed didn't share his views and 17 that's what prompted him to take his action, and I would 18 think, you know, that would be appropriate.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
20 Why don't we -- if we have further arguments on it, 21 why don't we hear it all now and we'll reserve a l 22 decision until after lunch.
l 23 MR. GUILD: Let me add only this, Judges t
24 That I think that Mr. Archambeault's opinion itself 25 is valid whether you choose to characterize him as an Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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12444 l I 1 expert or not.
2 The fed'e ral rules clearly permit opinions by lay !
3 witnesses as well as expert witnesses to the extent it's 4 helpf ul to the triers of f act, and I think in this .
5 instance, either way you cut it, it's helpf ul and 6 permissible for Mr. Archambeault himself to offer this 7 opinion evidence.
8 I'm looking at Rule 701, opinion testimony by lay 9 witnesses. It seems to clearly permit him to express an 10 opinion, as he has, whether or not you choose to 11 characterize him as an expert within the meaning of e
12 federal rules. I believe he is an expert within the 13 meaning of federal rules.
14 I do think that, of course, if a social scientist 15 approached this task, he might do it somewhat 16 differently than Mr. Archambeault did.
17 There would, indeed, be a basis for Mr. Gallo on 18 cross examination for doing as Rule 704 suggests, and 19 that is attacking the methodology. -
20 That simply goes to the weight to be accorded the 21 evidence and not to whether it's admissible in the first 22 instance, and I think that -- l l
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Mr. Guild, I hate to 24 interrupt you, but I don't think you can use Rule 701, 3 25 because Rule 703 relies on the witness being an expert, { l Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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a 1 and you are using 701 to buttress your position on 703.
2 If the w' itness is just offering an opinion as a 3 layman under 701, then he's not an expert under 703, 4 which would entitle him to rely on this type of 5 evidence; but there is a possibility that he could be 6 qualified as a very limited expert, and that's something 7 we would consider. Having worked as a QC Inspector, he 8 may have some limited expertise as to the opinions of QC 9 Inspectors; but I don't know that we would like to hang 10 anyone's hat on that particular qualification of an 11 expert, and it's just one of the things that we will
~
12 consider.
13 MR. GUILD: I just want to say that the NRC 14 Inspectors, in the course of their inspection 15 activities, frequently do express opinions based on 16 essentially survey bases, talking to others, eliciting 17 opinions f rom others, which they then collate and use to 18 form an opinion of their own; and, frankly, already in 19 this case we've seen opinion evidence expressed by NRC
~
20 Inspectors with far less basis than Mr. Archambeault has 21 relied on because they don't even come forward with a !
22 questionnaire or the documented basis for the collated 1
23 survey evidence.
24 so I suggest that if there are infirmities in the 25 methodology that Mr. Archambeault employed, because he's Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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12446 I I 1 not a Ph.D. social scientist, that those go to the 2 weight of th'e evidence; and, of course, the parties are 3 free to probe that.
4 The extent to which we would rely on his survey -- ,
5 on his opinion -- it's founded on the survey 6 responses -- is really reflected by the opinion evidence 7 he' stated in the record already today.
8 I don' t mean to restate that, but I think that it 9 will speak for itself, and that is clearly reflected by 10 the four corners of the survey document that he put 11 toge the r.
n ,
12 All you have to do is look at the questions he 13 asked to determine what the parameters are of the 14 opinion that he offers.
, 15 (Indica ting) 16 14R. GALLO: Now, Judge Grossman, I don' t I
17 believe there's a parallel between the NRC Staf f 18 activities in terms of formulating inspection reports 19 and developing opinions. .
20 Those people are, indeed, experts, but they are
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21 not -- at the time their testimony or reports are 22 introduced into evidence,' they are certainly subj ect to 23 challenge on the same basis that this witnesc is be?.ng 24 challenged.
25 On the point by the Staff, I believe that the { }
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12447 I s 1 admission of 131 and 130 for purposes of quote 2 " rebutting" the witness' other statement attributed to i 3 Mr. Westberg is really irrelevant.
. 4 It's at most a collateral -- at best a collateral 5 matter, which unless Mr. Westberg -- which would 6 necessitate the calling of Mr. Westberg if we were to 7 allow it on that basis, and I will submit that we should 8 not burden the proceeding to that extent.
9 (Indica ting. )
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
l 11 I think we've gotten all the arguments, and now 12 we'll just have to consider that.
I 13 W hy do n ' t w e --
)
14 MR. BERRY: Mr. Chairman, just one last
) 15 point.
16 As you know, this is Mr. Archambeault's testimony.
17 His concern stands on somewhat of a different footing 18 than others we have heard in this proceeding, because 1
19 the NRC Staff hasn't completed its inspection and 20 investigation of concerns and hasn't issued a report 21 like with respect to Mr. Puckett and Mr. Seeders and the ,
l 22 24 Inspectors.
23 The concerns that the witness has been testifying 24 to have been referred to the NRC Staff and they've been 25 conducting and they are in the process of conducting an i
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12448 I I 1 investigation and inspection to that.
2 At some' point, that inspection will be complete and 3 an Inspection Report will be issued; and we're 4 evaluating the necessity of presenting testimony from .
S the Staff on this very point.
6 In the event that the Staff witness is proffered 7 to, you know, testify as to the Staff's findings and 8 conclusions with respect to these concerns, it may well
- 9. be that, you know, the matters we're discussing now, the 10 points that I raised before, may become -- that issue 11 may be joined, this matter may be relevant.
12 So the point I was making earlier is that there may 13 be a limited admissibility of this, conditional 14 admissibility of this.
15 If that were to be the case and we were to prof fer 16 an NRC Staff witness and if, in fact, the statement 17 attributed to the NRC Inspector that the witness has 18 testified -- if, in fact, that did occur, well, then, 19 that would mae Intervenor Exhibit 131 relevant as under -
l 20 the circumstances that I described before, and that 21 would just necessitate recalling the witness.
22 What I have suggested is, you know, we can admit it 23 now for that limited purpose.
24 In the event that it's relevant, we'll consider it.
25 If not, it wouldn't have any relevance; but I don't l l l
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1 think that it would burden the record.
2 JU'DG E G ROSSMAN: Excuse me, Mr. Berry.
3 When do you expect that this Inspection Report will
. 4 issue?
5 MR. BERRY: I'm hopef ul that it will issue 6 ve ry shortly, Mr. Chairman.
7 I understand Mr. Westberg is the Inspector that has 8 been assigned to investigate this. I understand that 9 the fieldwork is completed and the report is being 10 r eviewed.
11 I think --
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: You know,'Mr. Gallo, it 13 seems to me that those questionnaires, then, might get 14 in through the back door or the side door, as it may be, 15 if they are the subject of an Inspection Report, and 16 that's something else that we have to consider, because 17 even if they are not admitted with this witness, I think 18 we' re then going to have to wrestle with the problem, 19 but I don't even know that it's going to be a real 20 problem, because I think Mr. Guild will be entitled to 21 then eramine on the questionnaires that have been 22 inspected to by the Inspector.
23 MR. BERRY: Well, let me --
24 MR. GALLO: Well, Judge G rossman --
(] 25 MR. BERRY: Let me make this point --
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12450 l l 1 MR. G ALLO: -- I would suggest that the Board 2 not include 'that consideration when it rules, because we 3 really should face up to that question when we see the 4 report and see what, in fact, the Inspector has done in ,
5 terms of relying on the questionnaires, if at all.
~
6 (Indicating.)
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes, okay.
8 MR. BERRY: That is correct.
9 And it's my understanding that the Inspector did 10 not inspect to the questionnaire. The NRC Inspector 11 inspected the allegations, the concerns that were 12 referred to him; and it's the witness' testimony that he 13 made some statement that some Inspectors he interviewed 14 didn't share his views, and that's what prompted the 15 Inspector -- I mean, the witness to develop the 16 questionnaire.
17 I think the testimony reflects that the witness did 18 not provide copies of this questionnaire -- did not 19 provide copies of the questionnaire to the NRC Staff. -
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: W ell, I was trying to ease
~
21 that burden here, Mr. Gallo, but, okay.
22 I believe we've heard full argument on this matter, 23 haven't we?
24 (No response.)
25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And we' re now at 10 of noon. { l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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1 MR. G ALLO: I just have a -- if the Board 2 chooses to r'ecess and Mr. Guild doesn' t obj ect, I would 3 just like to pass out L-2790 before we, in fact,
. 4 adj ourn.
5 JUDG E G ROSSMAN: Fine. Why don't we accept 6 that on the record right now and then recess -- I'm 7 sorry. Did you want to -- okay.
8 I think, though, before we recess, there are some 9 questions that Judge Callihan would like to ask the 10 witness in the form basically of voir dire on the 11 questionnaires.
12 BOARD EXAMINATION 13 BY J UDG E CALLIB AN :
14 Q The purpose of this, Mr. Archambeault, is to try to 15 establish some measure of how representative the 16 responses that you have presented are of Inspectors.
17 So f or continuity, we'll go back to Intervenors' 18 Exhibit 131, which, as I understand. it, comprises 19 responses, witho'2t identification of the responders --
20 A That's correct.
21 Q -- to seven copies of your questionnaire, or to put it ,
l 22 differently, it's the responses of seven Inspectors who 23 wish to retain their anonymity?
24 A Yes.
(f 25 Q Gow many questionnaires did you distribute?
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12452 l l 1 A Approximately 14.
2 0 14?
3 A That's correct.
4 Q How many did you receive in addition to this seven? .
5 A None. The only ones I collected were the seven before 6 the deposition, and I -- the rest of them haven' t got 7 back to me yet.
8 Q I'm sorry. Say that again, please?
9 I missed it.
10 A All right. i 11 Q Let me reask my question again.
12 You sent out 14 questionnaires?
13 A That's correct.
14 Q You got seven back f rom individuals who don't want their 15 identity known?
16 A That's right.
17 Q How many additional questionnaires have you gotten back? l 18 A None so far.
19 Q So you've gotten so f ar 7 returns out of 14. -
20 Do you have any anticipation of getting any more 21 from the remaining seven?
22 A I imagine so. l l
23 They haven't seen me. I 24 Q Now, what fraction of people knowledgeable in the f; 25 questions of your inquiry and in the work category of { j Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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O 1 whatever you chose Inspectors -- what fraction of that 2 total is you'r 14; or to put it differently, if you had 3 been entirely encompassing among your compatriots, how
, 4 many questionnaires would you have sent out?
5 A I would have sent one out to all the Cable Pull 6 Inspectors.
7 Q And tha t's the 14 ?
8 A Yes.
9 Q So you canvassed only Cable Pull Inspectors?
10 A That's correct.
11 Q How many Inspectors, in your knowledge, are there at 12 Braidwood who fit into the category of interested 13 individuals, cable pull and other disciplines, total 14 number of Inspectors within this classification?
15 A That would voice concerns or that are at the site?
16 Q No; total number of employees.
17 A About 160.
18 Q All right.
19 So there are --
t 20 MR. G ALLO: I missed that. What was the 21 numbe r?
22 MR. GUILD: 160.
23 BY J UDG E CALLIH AN :
24 Q I just want to summarize --
'.s 25 JUDG E G ROSSMAN: Excuse me, Mr. Gallo.
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1 MR. G ALLO: I missed the answer and Mr. Guild 2 gave it to m'e.
3 I'm sorry.
4 JUDG E G ROSSMAN: Okay. ,
5 MR. G ALLO: Go right ahead, sir.
6 BY J UDG E CALLIH AN :
7 Q So there is at Braidwood something like 150 Inspectors 8 total and you selected 14 who were in 1 particular 9 activity ?
10 A The ones I know, yes.
11 Q Now, what do you mean by that?
e 12 A The ones I have worked with.
13 Q Oh, okay.
14 So this 14 is not the total -- necessarily the 15 total number of Cable Pulling Inspectors, which is what 16 I understood you to say before?
~
17 A Of all the people I know that's got cable pulling certs, 18 that's the ones I have handed out questionnaires to.
1 19 Q Are there 14 Cable Pulling Inspectors at Braidwood or - 1 20 more or less?
[ . l l 21 A Oh, more than that.
22 Q There are more than that?
23 A Yes. l 24 Q How many Cable Pulling Inspectors are there at
, 25 Braidwood ? { l ;
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i 1 A I know there's approximately 20 on nights.
2 See, so'me of the Cable Pull Inspectors also hold 3 other certs.
. 4 I also handed out two questionnaires to, I believe, 5 Anchor Bolt Inspectors, because the questions aren't 6 directed directly at cable pulling.
7 Q How did you select the 14 individuals to whom you sent j
i 8 questionnaires?
9 A I j ust handed out -- I didn' t really have any reasoning.
I just went up
) 10 A couple of the guys I didn't even know.
11 to them and said, "Do you want to fill this out," and js i j 12 then I explained it to them why I wanted it filled out.
13 I really didn't know them that well.
14 Q I understood your answer earlier to say that you gave l 15 them to the Cable Pulling Inspectors, but now you say 16 you gave them to a couple other people as well --
, 17 A Well -- ,
18 Q -- true?
l 19 A That's true.
I 20 Q Well, again, let me start over. -
21 There's 150 or 160 Inspectors at Braidwood. You 22 said there's something like -- I don't just quite i
23 remember your number -- 20 or 40 Cable Pull Inspectors?
, ,.. _ 24 A 20.
25 Q 20.
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12456 1 JUDGE COLE: At night.
2 THE WITNESS: Yes.
3 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN:
4 Q How many total now? ,
5 We' re talking about all Inspectors at Braidwood, 6 and I presume that's what the 150 is.
7 How many Cable Pulling Inspectors are there at 8 Braidwood total, all shifts?
9 A I'm not sure how many there are on days.
10 0 But something greater than 20?
11 A I don' t know.
12 Q Well, how many on th'e night shif t?
13 A At least 20.
14 Q If you add up all 3 shif ts, you will get a number 15 greater than 20?
16 A Not much greater, because I've been transferred to days 17 to handle cable pulling and there's only one other 18 person on days I know who handles cable pulling.
19 Q There are at least 150 Cable Pulling Inspectors at -
20 .B raidw oo,,d ?
~
21 A I don',t think so.
22 0 I beg your pardon. Maybe I misspoke. 150 total 23 Inspectors at Braidwood.
24 At least 20 of those are Cable Pulling Inspectors?
25 A That's correct.
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12457 1 0 14 of them you -- 12 of those you gave the questionnaire 2 and you gave' 2 to other people?
3 A That's correct.
. 4 Q And f rom those 14, you have gotten 7 replies?
5 A So far.
6 Q Are those all f rom Cable Pulling Inspectors?
7 A The replies I got, I received back?
8 Q Well, you gave us seven.
9 Did they all come from --
10 A No, they didn't.
I I 11 Q So you got a couple -- or some came from the two 1 .- - -
12 additional ones --
13 A That's correct.
14 0 -- that you gave?
i 15 Would you say that the responses f rom the seven l 16 that you have are truly representative of Inspectors at 17 ' Braidwood?
18 A Yes.
19 J UDG E G ROSSMAN: Okay. I'm sorry.
20 JUDGE CALLIHAN: Dick has some.
~
21 BOARD EXAMINATION 22 BY JUDGE COLE:
23 Q Mr. Archambeault, when you were passing out the
, , _ , 24 questionnaires, did the questionnaire that you passed 25 out have attached to it the front page of Intervenors' i
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i 12458 l 1 Exhibit 12 9?
2 A No, it didnt.
3 0 Okay. l 4 So it was just the two pages of the questionnaire ,
5 you passed out?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q All right, sir.
8 Now, as you were passing it out, what did you say 9 to the individuals you were asking to fill the form out?
10 I thought you testified before you indicated you 11 told them what you wanted it for, i
12 Well, what did you say?
13 A I told them that I was getting the feeling that the 14 general consensus was that all my allegations or that my 15 concerns I brought up, that no one else felt that way; 16 and the Inspectors sit around every night and talk about 17 the things they are tired of. You know, "'Ih ey ge t aw ay 18 with this, they get away with that, nothing ever 19 changes." -
20 That's why I passed it out, because I know there I
21 are other Inspectors who feel that way. I 22 I don't want to -- I had a feeling I'm being made 23 to look like 1 individual out of 160 who's saying 24 there's problems when there's not; and f rom -- what Mr.
. 25 Westberg said was that the general -- the general Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
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12459 f
I consensus of Inspectors interviewed didn't agree with 2 me.
3 I think two or three did agree with my allegations.
. 4 Q All right, sir. l 5 I think you are telling me more how you feel, and 1
i 6 my question specifically was:
1 7 What did you say to the people you passed out the j 8 questionnaire to?
i i
9 I'm sure you didn't say all that to every person
)
l 10 you passed out the questionnaire to, did you?
11 A I told them -- no.
r~ e l
12 I told them I needed someone to stand behind me to t 13 show that I wasn't the only one who felt this way.
14 Q All right, sir.
]
15 Now, you passed out 14 questionnaires, and I assume j 16 about 12 of those were to f ellow Cable Pull Inspectors 17 on the night shift.
I
- 18 Is that about right, sir?
19 A Yes.
l
! 20 Q And you indicated that there are 20 Cable Pull l - ;
) 21 _
Inspectors that work at night.
! 22 Do I take it, then, that some of them said, "No, I ,
-2 3 - don't think I want to fill that out," and did not take ,
24 one from you?
25 A No; because not -- even though some hold certs in cable 4
l Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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12460 l
l l 1 pull, others work in other areas. There's a couple Weld 2 Inspectors that have cable certs -- excuse me -- but :
3 they don't work in that area. They are working in 4 welding. ,
5 If they are needed to work pulls, if we' re running 6 short of manpower and they are not doing nothing, then 7 they will come over to our area, cable pulls.
8 Q Okay.
9 Of the total number of people that you talked to 10 about the questionnaire and tried to give them a l l
11 questionnaire, what percentage of them received the 12 questionnaire from you and took it and what was the I I 13 remaining f raction that said, "No, I don't want to get 14 involved," or for whatever reason, did not accept a 15 questionnaire when they had an opportunity to receive 16 one from you?
17 A All the Inspectors I approached took a questionnaire. I 18 told them if they didn't want to fill it out, to return 19 it back to me. None of them returned it. .
20 Ron Nelson, I asked him on the day shif t to do the
~
21 same thing I was. doing. q He's the one that said that he 22 was getting no response.
23 JUDG E COLE: All right. Thank you.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
25 JUDG E CALLIB AN: I've got one. l }
Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
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12461 o
v 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Go ahead.
2 UOARD EXAMINATION 3 BY JUDGE CALLIHAN:
4 Q I think you said a moment ago that some of the 14 you 5 didn' t kn ow ?
6 A That's correct.
7 Q Let's refer to those that you do know.
8 Do you know them professionally because you work 9 with them or do you know them socially outside of the 10 work place?
11 A I know one of them professionally and the other ones I
(~'S12 just know by working with them at the site. .
'\/ 13 JUD3 E CALLIH AN: Thank you.
14 BOARD EXAMINATION 15 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
16 0 Were the 14 that you handed the questionnaires to the 17 only QC Inspectors that were in that area at that time?
18 A That; and I felt a little hesitant about approaching too
- 19 many people because I felt that maybe the questionnaire 20 would get into management's hands.
~
21 Q Well, then, who did you not approach with the' 22 questionnaires ? Were these people that you didn't
.23. know ?
24 A I would say I felt that -- I don't know if I say trust
(, 25 or I j us t -- I do n ' t th ink th ey wo uld -- it wa s -- I Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
l 12462 9
1 think it was more like a distrust.
2 Q Okay.
3 There were some that you distrusted and didn't give 4 questionnaires to; is that true? ,
5 A Yes.
6 Q How many were there of those Inspectors?
7 A only a couple.
8 Q Of the total number that were available to receive the 9 questionnaires at that time, you gave 14 out and there 10 were 2 that you didn' t give out.
11 Does that take care of the total number available?
12 A Are you saying total number of Inspectors on night 13 shift?
14 Q Yes, who were available to --
15 A Well, some of them I didn't get around to doing it.
16 I would have handed out more, but it wasn't my idea 17 to hand it 'out to every Inspector on the job. I wanted 18 to get -- another reason I made the questionnaire was to 19 reassure myself that it wasn't just me. - <
20 0 Well, I understand that.
21 We're trying to get a handle on the sampling that I
22 you made of distributing the questionnaires, and we want 23 to find out who was available and what criteria you used 24 to determine, 'of those available, who you would 25 distribute to. { j Sonntaa Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
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l 12463 !
1 Now, we're trying to get a feel for the total
~
2 number that were availab' e to receive the questionnaires 3 at that time.
- 4 How many QC Inspectors were there around there at I 5 the time you made the distribution?
6 A That was off and on, because I was involved in pulls.
7 Whenever I had a chance to get with one of them, I 8 got with one of them.
9 Like I said, I didn't get a chance to continue 10 .
passing them out because the deposition came up and, you 11 know, the only thing I had was the seven that I handed ,
out. I didn't have any more reason to hand any more
\ )12 13 out, because I just wanted to prove a point that there 14 were other Inspectors who felt the way I did.
15 Q Well, did you run out of questionnaires?
16 A No. I still have questionnaires, 17 I just quit handing them out.
18 Q Why couldn' t you hand them out?
19 A Now ?
, 20 Because everybody knows about it.
! 21 Q No.
22 At the time you handed out these questionnaires --
- 23. A Because I didn't have the time.
t
- .. 24 Q Oh, so you just handed them out until you ran out of 25 time ?
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(312) 232-0262
12464 I I 1 A Whenever I had the chance to talk to someone, I went up 2 to somebody 'and talked to them about it.
3 I didn' t -- you know, it wasn't f avoritism or 4 friendship. It was just whoever was there, the people I .
5 kn ew, people I worked with. People sit around and talk 6 about problems. I said, "Well, here, here's something 7 to voice your opinion on. "
8 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, we understand this 9 happened over one day. He got the memo from Mr. Nemeth 10 on, I believe it was, Monday, the deposition was 11 Wednesday.
12 -
At least that's the way I understand the witnebs' 13 testimony about the sequence of events.
14 BY JUDGE GROSSMAN:
15 Q Is that correct?
16 A I didn't pass it out af ter I got the memo, 17 MR. GUILD: I'm sorry, I'm sor ry.
18 A (Continuing.) It was af ter the meeting.
19 BY MR. PERIOD: -
20 0 It was af ter the meeting?
21 A After the meeting.
22 0 What day was the meeting on?
23 A It was the 19th.
24 Between that time and the deposition is when I was 25 passing them out and getting answers back, i l Sonntaq Reporting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12465 0
1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: What date was the deposition, 2 Mr. Guild?
3 MR. GUILD: The 3rd, Judge, on Wednesday.
. 4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
5 MR. GUILD: There was more than one day.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
7 Why don't we recess until --
8 MR. G ALLO: Could I pass them out?
9 JUDG E G ROSSMAN : Fine.
10 We note that you are handing out those documents, 11 Mr. Gallo, that you mentioned, the updated
( 12 s pecifica tion.
13 MR. GALLO: Well, if the Board would prefer, 14 I'll do it after the lunch break.
15 I like to give it exhibit numbers and that sort of 16 thing.
17 I know the Board wants to consider the matter 18 before it, so why don't we do it after lunch.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: You wish to give it an 20 Applicant's exhibit number.
21 Pine. Why don't we do that right now~ and we can 22 accept it and perhaps peruse it during lunch.
23 MR. GALLO: I believe the next exhibit number
_.. 24 is 120, and I would like to have marked for J 25 identification as Applicant's Exhibit 120 Sargent &
Sonntaa Reportina Service, Ltd.
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O 12466 O
1 Lundy Specification L-2790, indicating amendments 2 through Amendment 42, and I would like to have marked I
3 for identification as Applicant's Exhibit 121 Sargent &
4 Lundy Specification L-2790 incorporating amendments .
5 through Amendment 48.
6 (The documents were thereupon marked Applicant's Exhibits Nos.120 and 121 for I 7
8 identification as of September 10, 1986.)
9 MR. G ALLO: I believe, your Honor, that 10 satisfies the request by the Board for information on 11 that particular item.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: 'Okay, fine.
13 We'll recess, then, until 1:30. -
14 (WHEREU PON, the hearing was 15 continued to the hour of 1:30 16 o' clock P. M.)'
17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 I I Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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l l
12467 l
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 3
2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION I
3 BEFORE THE ATOMIC SAFETY AND LICENSING BOARD 4
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _X o :
In the Matter of: :
6 : Doc ke t No. 5 0-4 56 OL COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY : 50-457 OL 7 :
(Braidwood Station, Units 1 :
8 and 2) :
__________________x 9
10 '*
Met pursuant to recess.
11 Thursday, September 10, 1986.
1:30 P. M.
12 (d
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We are back in 14 ses sion.
15 We decided that we are not going to admit 16 Intervenors' Exhibits 130 and 131.
17 With regard to -- well, for one thing, this isn't 18 an expert and the main reason is that it wasn't a 19 scientific or random sampling. It seemed to be not l ~
20 representative.
i 21 However, we are not going to prohibit further i
22 questioning with regard to the items covered in the 23 questionnaire and the fact that these items were covered
- 24 in the questionnaire and that the answers do or do not (d 25 corroborate the witness's opinions on those items.
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12468 9
1 And the witness, of course, can be cross examined 2 on the correspondence of his answers to the 3 questionnaires and, basically, a development of his 4 position that way.
5 But as far as the questionnaires themselves, they .
6 do not appear to us to be admissible; and it just 7 wouldn't at this point seem fair to allow those 8 documents in.
9 So you may proceed further in your questioning, Mr.
10 Guild, with regard to the witness's opinions and any 11 corroboration he may have with regard to these, his 12 opinions not only on these matters but as to what his 13 fellow employees feel on this matter and whether or not 14 that is corroborated by the questionnaires that were 15 received back from his fellow employees.
16 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir.
17 Mr. Chairman, I would ask that Intervenors' 18 Exhibits 130 and 131 be received as offers of proof.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine. We will accept 20 those exhibits as offers of proof; and they will travel ,
21 along with the record, along with all the admitted 22 exhibits.
23 (The documents were thereupon received as 24 of fers of proof as Intervenors' Exhibits l
25 Nos. 130 and 131.)
9^nnt=g Perar&ing 9=ruina. LtA Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12469 w-1 MR. GUILD: Might I inquire of the Chairman i 2 whether the' identities of the persons responding would 3 cure the objections upon which the Board relies in 4
4 excluding the documents?
5 If so, I would intend to pursue the question of 6 identifying the sources.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, we are hoping not to 8 have an identification; but if Mr. Gallo, for one, 9 believes that he needs an identification,. hopefully, we 10 can restrict that, so that he can identify and follow up 11 without any further disclosure; but we are not up to 12 that point yet now.
13 Do you wish to affirmatively disclose those names, 14 Mr. Guild?
15 MR. GUILD: What I would like to do at this 16 point, Judge, is I would like to first know whether or 17 not the objections to the admissibility of the documents 18 that have been of fered,130 and 131, turns on the lack 19 of identification of the sources.
20 If it does and, therefore, I can cure the 21 objections by obtaining the sources, what I would 22 propose to do is, with the Board's permission, stand 23 down for a moment and I would like to consult off the 24 record with the witness.
k.
m 25 Depending on the results of that consultation, I Senatac F=rertia; Se rvice . Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12470 l l 1 would intend or one possibility is a direct inquiry as 2 to the identities of the source.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No. We understood that to 4 be the first alternative to our denying admissibility on -
5 the grounds of confidentiality.
6 It's our position that the questionnaires are not 7 admissible for ot.her reasons, the ones we stated, which 8 do not involve confidentiality.
9 So that would not cure the problem from your point 10 of view.
11 MR. GUILD: Fine. -
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: However, Mr. Gallo may want 13 further disclosure. I am not sure that he does.
14 I would assume he would consider whether he has a 15 purpose for going into the background of these 16 documents.
17 For all he knows, that would open up a Pandora's 18 box. I don't claim to know best for Mr. Gallo what his 19 position ought to be on that; but we are not up to that 20 yet, unless you wish to raise that now, Mr. Gallo. .
21 MR. GALLO: I don't wish to raise it at this 22 point.
23 I have a preliminary matter I would like to 24 address, but let's finish this first.
I
!> 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay.
Sonntec Reperti"; Se ruice, Ltd.
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12471 1 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir. I think I understand 2 the Board's' position.
3 Just to be clear for purposes of the record, I do, 4 of course, maintain that these are admissible and would 5 attempt, if, in whole or in part, identifying the 6 sources for the record would cure the basis for
! 7 excluding them, I would try to do so; and I might try to J
l 8 do so by asking the witness to testify to the sources in 9 camera, subject to protective order or in some form or 10 fashion.
11 But since I believe that even that limited l 12 disclosure of the identity of the sources would
, 13 compromise the basis on which'the information was given j 14 to Mr. Archambeault, I prefer not to do that.
l 15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We understand that, as part 16 of your of fer of proof, you are offering to do that; but 17 since we are denying that, you won't proceed along these 18 grounds.
!' 19 MR. GUILD: Fine, sir.
! 20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Now, Mr. Gallo.
21 MR. GALLO: Yes. Just prior.to the lunch j 22 recess, I distributed Sargent & Lundy Specification l 23 2790,.one version compiled through Amendment 42 and the
. 24 other through Amendment 48.
25 I now have the contract documents that were S^aateg n ererti=g ser" ice, Ltd_
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12472 I I 1 referred to during our colloquy this morning and I would 2 like to dist'ribute those.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We will mark those for 4 identification as Applicant's Exhibit 122. -
5 MR. GALLO: Yes.
6 (The documents were thereupon marked 7 Applicant's Exhibit No. 122 for 8 identification as of September 10, 1986.)
9 MR. GALLO: These documents, your Honor, are, 10 in our judgment, that is the -- it is my judgment as to 11 the relevant excerpts of the Ernst and Comstock 12 contracts -- I should say purchase orders.
l 13 There is an Ernst purchase order, the 14 specifications that was used for bid purposes, a change 15 order adding a subsequent version, a so-called conform 16 version of the specification. Those documents are in 17 this package.
18 (Indicating.)
~
19 There is the Comstock purchase order, the 20 specification that was used at that time for the 21 Comstock purchase order and several amendments to the 22 purchase order that dealt with the Specification L.2790.
23 Now, the reason we did this is because the contract 24 documents that I have here are, perhaps, an inch thick.
25 The entire set of documents almost reaches two I I l
Sonnte; Reporting Ser" ice, Ltd_
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12473 (3 i 1 feet. We have those documents if the Board or any of 2 the parties would like to have them so they could peruse 3 them themselves, and I have no objection to providing 4 them, but I didn't want to burden the record without 5 first having a request for it.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. It seems unlikely 7 that we would want more than you have given us, but we 8 certainly appreciate the offer; and if we do wish to go 9 beyond these, we will let you know about that.
10 MR. GALLO: One final point, your Honor.
' ll I indicated this morning some hesitancy about being
,ym
( ,,
) 12 able to go forward on this question.
13 I can now report that we would be able to go 14 forward with Messrs. Treece, Kurtz and Costal at an 15 opportunity when there was a gap or next week, if it was 16 deemed appropriate, at whatever time.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Then I think we can 18 count on a hearing for the full next week then, because 19 they would be able to fit in if we run out of witnesses.
. 20 So that sounds fin $e.
21 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I take it that 22 Messrs. Treece and Costal would not begin with the 23 rebuttal, the so-called expert aspects of rebuttal, but
. -~s 24 Mr. Costal would be addressing the L.2790 and contract
! \ -
.h 25 matters.
I Snnn*ag Deporting Seruice. Ltd.
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12474 I I
.l 1 MR. G ALLO: Well, the Treece testimony refe rs 2 to contract matters alone.
3 It's my understanding that the Costal and Kurtz 4 testimony have in them consolidated subjects. They -
5 address both the technical issues raised by Mr. Puckett, 6 two of them to be exact, and also the contract matters.
7 The testimony has not been segregated.
8 MR. GUILD: My only point is it doesn't 9 address the analysis of the reinspection data, the PTL 10 or CSR data?
11 MR. GALLO: No, no. This rebuttal is simply
. I 12 directed to some of the -- two of the concerns raised by f
13 Mr. Puckett during his Cross Examination.
14 MR. GUILD: Again, Mr. Costal is going to 15 return on another subject?
16 MR. GALLO: Yes. There is no intent to put 17 him on in connection with his other testimony on the 18 BCAP, PTL matte rs.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I understood we were going 20 to get prefiled testimony from these people.
21 Now, perhaps next week is too soon for that.
22 MR. GALLO: We will try to distribute it as 23 soon as we can.
24 After the close of the hearing, I will get an assessment as to how soon we can distribute it; and we I I
. 25 em.. .- 'o.mm..
~ '
.- e...4-. ..a
~' 'Genev'a,'il55noIs' ' 66534~'~'
(312) 232-0262
12475 1 will let the Board know in the morning.
2 JdDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay. That's fine.
3 MR.' BERRY: Mr. Chairman, I would just note 4 for the record that the Staff, after the luncheon I 5 recess, produced to the Board and the parties a copy of 6 its response to Applicant's motion for authorization of 7 fuel loading and precritical testing. . . .
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine.
9 Okay. Mr. Guild, you may continue with the 10 witness.
11 MR. GUILD: Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
( 12 BY MR. GUILD:
13 Q Mr. Archambeault, would you put before you a copy of 14 Intervenors' Exhibit 129, that is the blank 15 questionnaire with your cover memorandum, explanatory 16 cover memorandum.
17 Do you have that, sir?
18 A Yes, I do. l l
19 Q Now, I want to direct your attention to the questions 20 that you framed as you framed them in your questionnaire 21 and I want to ask you what your answer is to these 22 questions.
23 The first I read as, "How do you feel about this 24 site as far as work relations, quality and this site 25 compared to other sites?"
ennne n n.nne*4nn e ruio.; tra Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232 0262
12476 l l 1 Could you answer that question, please?
2 A One of the answer questionnaires is mine in the seven.
3 Q I am sorry. You will have to speak up a little bit. I 4 can't --
5 A In the seven questionnaires, one of them I filled out.
6 Q All right, sir. Can you identify the one that you 7 filled out of the seven?
8 A It would be the third one, right here.
9 (Indicating.)
10 Q (Indica ting. )
11 A Yes.
12 Now I am showing the witness a copy of one of the seven Q
f 13 questionnaires that was formally -- it was part of 14 Intervenors' Exhibit, I believe, 131, that was offered 15 and not admitted.
16 Is that the copy of the questionnaire that you 17 filled out in your handwriting?
18 A Yes.
19 MR. GUILD: Let me exhibit it to the other 20 parties. ,l 21 MR. GALLO: Okay.
22 MR. GUILD: Have you got the right one?
23 MR. GALLO: Yes.
24 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I would ask that - I 25 this document be marked as -- if I can mark this as the 1
emnn*,m nona,*4-m em .,, 4 o m r*A
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i 12477 l n
LJ 1 next hearing exhibit, I believe it's 13 --
2 MR. BERRY: 2.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: 132.
4 MR. GUILD: Yes, that it be marked as 5 Intervenors' Exhibit 132.
6 And to find it among the package, the first line of 7 the answer reads, "I feel sometimes tension between 8 craft, QC and Engineering."
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Then there is a line 10 through the next eight words?
11 MR. GUILD: Yes.
12 BY MR. GUILD:
13 Q Is that, indeed, the copy you filled out, Mr.
14 Archambeault?
15 A Yes, it is.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, we are removing that 17 -- I am -- from my group exhibit, Intervenors' Exhibit 18 131, and marking that Intervenors' Exhibit 132, which 19 will, I take it, remain part of your of fer of proof, Mr.
20 Guild?
21 (The document was thereupon marked 22 Intervenors' Exhibit No.132 for 23 identification as of September 10, 1986.)
24 MR. GUILD: No, sir. I wish to separately 25 offer 132 now as an exhibit in evidence.
Sc.antag Reperting Se rvice, Ltd.
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l 12478 l I
^
1 It now has been authenticated by Mr. Archambeault.
2 It clearly is a document that he acknowledges authorship 3 of and I believe it's now independently admissible for 4 that reason.
5 It's, obviously, not a survey. It's his answer to 6 questions that he himself posed; but it reflects his 7 opinions on these matters.
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, perhaps it would save 9 time to take it in that way; but that is up to Mr.
10 Gallo.
11 Do you want to take a minute or two to read that 12 and see if you prefer to have it in that way or rather h 13 have Mr. Guild ask questions again?
14 MR. GALLO: Yes. Could we have a short 15 recess?
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Sure. Why don't we take a 17 short one?
18 MR. GALLO: Thank you, your Honor.
~
19 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which 20 the hearing was resumed as follows:) ,
21 MR. GALLO: Your Honor, if I understand that 22 these answers represent the witness's present viewpoint, 23 I think it certainly would save time if we just accept )
24 the document as answers to questions that the witness l 25 has posed to himself and take it as testimony.
ennn*ng nonnr*4ng coruico; t*a Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12479 1 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I think the --
2 JdDGE GROSSMAN: Do these represent your 3 present opinion?
j 4 THE WITNESS: Yes, they do.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Is there any objection, Mr.
6 Berry, to having it admitted as that in lieu of having 7 to go through these questions right noa?
l 8 MR. BERRY: No objection, Mr. Chairman.
! 9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. We will admit 10 Intervenors' Exhibit 132. -
11 (The document was thereupon received into 12 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No.
- 13 132.)
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: You may proceed.
15 BY MR. GUILD:
16 Q Mr. Archambeault, do these answers also reflect your 17 opinions held at the time you completed this 18 questionnaire?
19 A Yes, it did.
20 Q Now, with respect to the questions that you have posed i
21 in your questionnaire, do you have an opinio6 as to the 22 positions of other Quality control Inspectors aside from 23 yourself?
.._. 24 A Would you restate that?
25 Q Sure.
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i 12480 l l 1 With reference to the questions that you have 2 included in'your questionnaire, aside from your own 1 3 opinion, do you have an opinion as to the position held 4 by other inspectors? -
5 A From the talk that goes on --
6 MR. GALLO: Excuse me.
7 The answer is either yes or no at this point, 8 because I have an objection to what I believe the next 9 question is going to be.
10 MR. GUILD: You have got to state whether you 11 have an opinion one way or another before I can ask you 12 to offer that opinion, Mr. Archambeault, if you have 13 one; and that is where Mr. Gallo is wanting to be heard.
14 A (Continuing.) Yes.
15 BY MR. GUILD:
16 0 So you have an opinion.
17 Now would you state that opinion, please?
18 MR. GALLO: Objection.
19 The objection is based as follows: I believe this 20 witness's opinion is going to be based on the results of 21 the questionnaire which has been excluded, so there is 22 no foundation for his opinion, based on the Board's 23 prior ruling.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No. We excluded the
. 25 questionnaire on the grounds that he would be asked I I 9ennt=0 n= porting Seruice, Ltd.
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l 12481 i
i >
f 1
1 questions -- not on the grounds but with the 2 understanding that he could testify with regard to his l
3 opinion as to what others felt and whether the l- 4 questionnaires corroborated his position.
! 5 However, I assumed that Mr. Guild would be more 6 specific with regard to each question rather than a l 7 broad --
8 MR. GUILD: I intend to, Judge.
l l 9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- a broad question on 1
] 10 corroboration.
i
! 11 MR. GUILD: I intend to be, Judge.
j(, 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I don't see anything' j 13 objectionable, Mr. Gallo, though you may wish to argue i 14 on that.
j 15 MR. GALLO: Well, the question was so broad
) 16 that I didn't understand it to be an implementation of 17 the Board's ruling.
i j 18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, okay. That's fine.
i 19 It is. I don't think a blanket question and answer like i
l 20 that would suf fice.
l l 21 I think you ought to go into the particulars and j i l 22 ask whether the others agree with him or disagree and l 23 whether there is any corroboration in the questionnaire I
i 24 answers.
25 MR. GUILD: Yes.
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12482
[
1 BY MR. GUILD:
2 Q In the first question you state, Mr. Archambeault -- for 3 the record I will read this - "How do you feel about 4 this site as far as work relations, quality and this -
5 site compared to other sites?"
6 Again, do you have an opinion about the position of 7 other inspectors on that question?
8 A Yes.
9 0 would you state that opinion?
10 A I don't think any of them really feel that the site 11 itself is unsafe, although there may be quality concerns 12 they dont Rnow about; but there is a problem between 13 Comstock management and inspectors.
14 And whether this is leading to quality concerns, I 15 can't answer that.
16 0 What is the problem that you understand other inspectors 17 believe exists between Comstock management and their 18 inspectors?
~
19 A Being rushed in their inspections, intimidation.
20 That's really the main two things.
21 Q Bow do you understand -- how do you use the term 22 " intimidation" in that answer?
23 A People being moved around for no apparent reason after 24 they have found problems in areas and addressed them.
[ 25 Q All right. Now, your Question No. 1 in your
- l sannt=g Pe arting se mice, Ltd. I Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12483
[ '\
V. )
1 questionnaire poses the question in light of a 2 comparison of this site with other sites. _
3 What is your view about the opinion of other 4 inspectors with regard to this question, comparing 5 Braidwood with other sites?
6 A It was generally average, an average comparison.
7 Some felt it was below average.
8 0 The second question, "How do you feel about the 9 relations between management and the worker?"
10 You give your answers in Intervenors' Exhibit 132.
11 Do you have an opinion as to the position of other
) 12 Quality Control Inspectors on that question?
13 A Yes.
14 There is friction between management and 15 inspectors. There is also -- there seems to be 16 favoritism.
17 Q How do you mean that, favoritism?
18 A There is just little groups and they -- I don't know how 19 to explain it.
20 All I can say is there is little groups.
21 Q Well, in what respect is someone treated as a favorite 22 as compared to others, in your opinion?
23 A If a supe rvisor likes you, you ,are all right.
. 24 If he doesn't like you, he might give you a rough
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12484 l I 1 Q Is it your opinion that that view is generally held by 2 other inspectors?
3 A I believe so.
4 Q Let me ask you, before I get beyond this point, your 5 opinion about the views of other inspectors.
6 As you stated with regard to Quest.on No. 1, is 7 c that opinion corroborated by the answers you got to the 8 questionnaires that were returned?
9 A The questionnaires I read over.
10 0 Did or did not corroborate your opinion?
11 A Yes.
12 Q They did.
13 As to the second question, did the answers to the 14 questionnaires that were returned corroborate your 15 opinion?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Now, the third question, "Do you feel there are quality 18 conce rns at this site that have not been addressed?"
~
19 You state there what is your opinion.
20 Do you have an opinion about the position of other .
21 QC Inspectors on that question?
22 A some feel there are.
23 Q Did your questionnaires, the ones that were returned,
, 24 corroborate or fail to corroborate your position on that
' I 25 question?
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12485 l
W l 1 A There are some that had a neutral feeling and some of 2 them didn't'know.
3 Q Some of them did not know and some of them agreed?
4 A I believe one of the questionnaires, the gentleman 5 didn't have any concerns.
6 Q How about the six others -- the five others besides --
7 A I think some of them felt they .did.
i 8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, excuse me. We are on 9 Question and Answer 3 now?
i 10 MR. GUILD: Yes, sir.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, you don't actually-O j 12 feel. that there are quality concerns, do you?
13 You say that there may be some. Are you saying T
14 that~there are?
15 If there may be some, I guess you are suggesting
! 16 that you don't know of any.
17 MR. GUILD: That have not been addressed.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: What does your answer mean?
I 19 THE WITNESS: There may be some that other 20 . inspectors know about.
- 21 JUDGE GROSSMAN
- But you don't know of any 22 that haven't been addressed?
23 THE WITNESS: Not besides the ones that I
_ 24 brought up.
I
~(d
( 25 BY MR. GUILD:
Seaats; Reperting Service, Ltd.
i Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12486 I I 1 Q In your answer to Question 3, Mr. Archambeault, are you 2 expressing any view about the adequacy of the response 3 to your conce rn?
4 A What I was trying to say in 3 is I addressed my concerns -
5 and they are being addressed.
6 Q All right, sir. Question 4, "Do you feel if you 7 identify quality conce rns that you may be looked down 8 upon or blacklisted by management?"
9 You express your opinion.
10 Do you have an opinion about the position of other 11 inspectors on that question?
12 A Yes.
13 They tend to agree with me.
14 Q Was that opinion corroborated or not corroborated by the 15 returned questionnaires?
16 A I believe it was.
17 Q 5, "How do you feel about the quality program at this 18 site?"
19 Exhibit 132 reflects your opinion.
20 Do you have an opinion as to the position of other 21 inspectors on that question?
22 A I don't remember what the other inspectors answered.
23 Q Aside from the questionnaire responses now, Mr.
24 Archambeault, do you have an opinion about the feeling 25 of other inspectors at the site on the question of the I I Senntag Reperting Se rvice, Ltd. i Geneva, Illinois 60134 !
(312) 232-0262 j
12487 N
1 quality program at the site?
2 A I am sorry. I didn't understand.
3 Q Your last answer said that you didn't remember what the 4 answers were on the questionnaire to this question.
5 Lay aside the answers to the questionnaire now, 6 from any other source, discussions with other 7 inspectors, observation, do you have an opinion about 8 the position of other QC Inspectors on Question 5, and s
9 that is the quality program at the site?
10 A Some feel that that may be inaccurate or -- I am sorry.
11 I can't even think.
,- a 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: If you don't have an 13 opinion, just tell us. If you don't really know how the 14 other inspectors feel about that, just tell us that.
15 MR. GUILD: Do you have the question in mind, 16 Mr. Archambeault, or would you like to --
17 THE WITNESS: No, I don't have any questions.
18 MR. GUILD: Would you like me to repeat the 19 question?
20 THE WITNESS: No.
21 BY MR. GUILD:
22 Q Do you have a copy of Exhibit 131 before you?
l 23 That is the --
l
- f.
,(
24 MR. GALLO: Excuse me.
Do we have an answer to this question or is it 25 i
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12488 i I 1 withdrawn?
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Do you have an answer to the 3 ques tion?
4 Do you have an opinion as to how the others feel 5 about that?
6 MR. GUILD: I think he gave a partial answer, 7 Mr. Chairman.
8 THE WITNESS: I don't know what the 9 questionnaires say.
1.0 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Sorry. Mr. Reporter, would 11
- you --
12 JUDGE COLE: He said, "I don't know what the 13 questionnaires say."
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The question is: Do you --
15 JUDGE COLE: No, what the questionnaires say.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, about the 17 questionnaires, yes.
18 Well, the question that has been posed to you is
~
19 really: Do you have an opinion as to how the fellow 20 inspectors feel about the quality program at this site? ,
21 If you don't have an opinion, tell us that.
22 If you do have an opinion, we will ask you what 23 your opinion is how your fellow inspectors feel about
. 24 the quality program; but right now the question is:
I 25 Do you have an opinion as to how they feel about senate; Reporting Ser" ice. Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
i 12489 O
1 it?
2 THE WITNESS: Some of them don't like it and 3 some do.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All right.
5 BY MR. GUILD:
6 Q Now, I had asked you separately whether you recalled 7 what the questionnaire said: and you said you didn't 4
8 recall. -
9 Now, I would ask you to put Intervenors' Exhibit 10 131, that is the completed questionnaire, before you; 11 and, if you would, Mr. Archambeault, review the answers (y 12 to Question 5. Take a moment, if you would, and review 13 those answers.
14 All right, sir. Now, do any of the responses to 15 your questionnaire, aside from your own, corroborate 16 your opinion that there are concerns about the adequacy 17 of the quality program at the site?
, 18 A Some feel it's adequate; some don't.
19 0 Question 6, "If there was a way to stay totally 20 anonymous," emphasis on totally, "do you think more 21 quality concerns would be brought up?"
22 You express an opinion on that question.
23 Do you have an opinion on the position of other QC I .
24 Inspectors at the site on Question 67 s 25 A I think they tend to agree with that.
i 9aaa*=0 ==pa &ia; 9-ruice. Ltd.
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12490 0
1 Q And did their responses to the questionnaire corroborate 2 your position?
3 A I think most of them did.
4 MR. GALLO: I am sorry. I missed that. -
5 THE WITNESS: I think most of them did.
6 BY MR. GUILD:
7 0 Question 7, "Do you think there are people that are out 8 here just for the money and that they don't want to get 9 caught up in quality concerns or problems?"
10 You have your opinion reflected in Intervenors' 11 Exhibit 132.
12 What is your opinion, if you have one, of the 13 position of other inspectors on Question 7?
14 A I think some tend to agree with that.
15 0 All right. And did the responses to your questionnaire 16 corroborate that opinion?
17 A I don' t remembe r. l 18 Q Take a moment, if you would, and review the responses to
~
19 Question 7, Mr. Archambeault.
20 Do the responses to your questionnaire corroborate 21 your pocition, that come peopic out here are just here 22 for the money and they don't want to get caught up with 23 quality conce rns or problems?
24 A Yes.
- 25 0 Question 8, "Do you feel there is an attitude out here c - - . . ., . ,- u,,c.-,u. ra
-~~~
~ ~ ~ ~Ge6eva',~iiiinois~' 60i34
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I 1
l l
12491 '
1 to do just what you have to to get by?"
2 Your opinion is reflected in Exhibit 132.
3 What opinion do you have of the position of other 4 inspectors, if you have any?
5 A I think they felt the way I did.
6 MR. GALLO: I am sorry. What did he say?
j 7 MR. GUILD: "They felt the way I did."
8 BY MR. GUILD:
.. 9 Q Did your questionnaire responses corroborate or not 10 corroborate your position on that question?
11 A Yes.
'f* .
i' 12 Q Question 9, "Do you feel any personnel have been shifted 13 around (put in dif ferent positions) by management i
14 because they address quality concerns or as it is called 15 sometimes, " making waves?"
16 What opinion do you have, Mr. Archambeault, on the 17 position of other inspectors on that question?
J l
18 A I think they felt the same way.
l .
! 19 Q Did your questionnaire responses indicate that position?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Question 10, "If you had a quality concern that you felt 22 may shut the job down, would you think twice about 23 reporting it? "
. 24 Your answer is no.
, 25 Do you have an opinion about the position of other u .
i I e^aate; "epertia; Ser-ice, Ltd.
} Geneva, Illinois 60134
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12492
- 9 1 inspectors on that question?
2 A They agreed that they would.
3 Q And did the questionnaires corroborate that?
4 A Yes.
5 0 Questoin 11, "Are there any suggestions you have that 6 you feel might improve this job?"
7 You made one.
8 In your opinion, did other inspectors hold -- did 9 other inspectors have suggestions for improving the job?
10 A Yes.
11 Q Did your questionnaire responses corroborate that 12 -
position?
13 A Yes.
14 Q Finally, Question 12, "Do you feel you were ever 15 pressured or rushed to get your job done due to 16 production pressure?"
17 You answered yes in your ve rsion.
18 Do you have an opinion as to the position of other
~
19 inspectors on that question?
20 A Well, they felt the same way.
21 Q Did your questionnaire corroborate that, too?
22 A Yes.
23 0 Mr. Archambeault, did you have occasion to submit a 24 grievance to your local union with respect to the issue
- f. 25 of your failure -- the failure to transfer you to the l
cann&sa onnn,&4nn cori,to. r_ & A
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12493 O I 1 first shit?
2 A Yes, right after the meeting.
3 Q After the meeting --
4 A With MCIS, C -- excuse me, MCIS, Commonwealth Edison, 5 the NRC and LKC.
6 Q I will show you a document that is on union letterhead.
4 7 It has a date of 8-27-86.
8 The subject. First step grievance.
9 I will ask that this be marked as Intervenors' 10 Exhibit 133.
11 (The document was thereupon marked f 12 Tatervenors' Exhibit No.133 for 13 identification as of September 10, 1986.)
14 BY MR. GUILD:
15 Q Is this a copy of your grievance? ,
~
16 A Yes, it is.
17 Q Why did you file the grievance, Mr. Archambeault?
18 A My steward suggested that I do it if I wasn't satisfied i
19 with the answer I got back about transfer.
20 Q Who is your steward now?
21 A George Nemeth.
22 Q You informed Mr. Nemeth about your position on the 23 transfer question?
+
. 24 A Yes.
1 25 Q And that you weren't satisfied with the management's 9^==*=0 nara-*ia; 9arri- . Ltd_
Geneva, Illinois 60134
.(312) 232-0262 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
12494 i l 1 response; is that right?
2 A That is righ't.
3 Q At that point Nemeth suggested you file a union 4 grievance?
5 A Yes. .
6 Q That's what this document is?
7 A That's correct.
8 Q What is your understanding of the process and the 9 grievance procedure? What is to transpire after you 10 file a first step grievance?
11 A I don't know where it goes.
12 On here it tells that the MCIS Project Manager h 13 called me in to talk to me about it, so I take it that 14 it went to him next.
15 Q When did Mr. Cartelli call you in?
16 A I believe it was a couple of days after the grievance 17 was filed.
18 Q How long did you talk to Mr. Cartelli about the subject?
19 A Oh, about 15 minutes.
20 Q Did he make any response to you at that time? ,
21 A He asked me if I still wanted to go to days and he 22 wanted -- he asked me if I wanted him to go ahead and 23 try to work something out.
24 Q And what did you tell him?
is 25 A I said yes to both.
9erntac Pererting Ser" ice, Ltd_
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(312) 232-0262
12495 1 Q Yes to both of those questions.
2 You tol'd him you wanted to go days?
3 A I told him I wanted to go days but -- well -- I think I 4 told him to hold off, because of the deposition.
5 Q Why was that? You knew that you were going to have your 6 deposition taken?
7 A Yes.
8 Q Why did you want him to hold off for that reason?
9 A Because I still felt that I might be discriminated 10 against if I went to days.
11 Q All right, sir. I take it that you continued to want
( 12 the transfer; you just didn't want to be discriminated 13 against if you got the transfer; is that right?
14 A That is right.
15 Q And you communicated that back to Mr. Cartelli?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Now, has there been any further processing of your 18 grievance, to your knowledge? i 19 A Not that I know of. !
20 Q The last you heard of it was your meeting with Mr.
21 Cartelli?
22 A Yes.
23 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I would ask that 24 Intervenors' Exhibit 133 be received in evidence.
25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, I assure you the f
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12496 j l l 1 fact that we have cumulative ve rsions of the same 2 opinion and same estimate of position by the witness 3 isn't going to influence us whether we accept the story 4 or the position.
5 MR. GALLO: I take it you are anticipating 6 that objection and suggesting that it might not be 7 beneficial to assert it.
8 Therefore, I have no --
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, he has already stated 10 his position both orally and in a few other documents, 11 so we might just as well let this one in.
12 MR. GALLO: I have no objection.
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
14 Mr. Berry.
15 MR. BERRY: No object' ion, Mr. Chairman.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Admitted.
17 (The document was thereupon received into 18 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No.
~
19 133.)
20 BY MR. GUILD: .
21 Q Therefore, in fact, you had your deposition taken and it 22 was taken last week, September 3rd, as a result of a 23 subpoena that I sought from the presiding officer; is 24 that correct?
j, 25 A Yes.
I l
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12497 i
i 1 Q And at that deposition, I believe, counsel for l
2 Applicant, Mr. Gallo, I think, probably after he offered 3 his opinion on the interpretation of the Comstock 4 procedure, asked you whether you still wanted to 5 transfer to first shift?
6 MR. GALLO: Objection.
7 I don't know whether it was before or after. I 8 don't understand why that is a premise of the question.
9 MR. GUILD: It's not, and I will withdraw the 10 _
question.
11 BY MR. GUILD:
12 Q Mr. Gallo wanted to know whether you still wanted to .
13 transfer to first shift; correct?
14 A Yes.
15 Q And you told him you did?
16 A Yes.
17 Q Did you thereafter, after the deposition, have any 18 contact with your supervision on the question of your 19 transfer to the first shift?
20 A I talked to Tom Cartelli.
21 Q When did you do that?
22 A I believe first day. l 23 Q Your deposition was Wednesday, so the next day you m 24 talked to Mr. Cartelli?
25 A Yes.
~
... ~
l Ge5eva, Il5EdoIs~ 60534~
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12498 l l 1 Q What did you say to Mr. Cartelli?
2 A I just asked him if there was any response on it.
3 0 on the transfer request?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And what did Mr. Cartelli say back? .
6 A He didn't know anything at that time.
7 Q Did he tell.you he would get back to you?
8 A Yes.
9 Q And did he get back to you?
10 A Friday the steward called me up and told me I was 11 transferred to days starting Monday.
12 Q From Nemeth? i I 13 A Yes.
14 Q And I take it you did, in fact, start days this last 15 Monday?
16 A Yes.
17 Q For whom are you working on the day shift?
18 A Bob Tuite.
19 0 What is your opinion about the transfer to day shift and 20 assignment under Mr. Tuite? ,
21 A I am satisfied with the transfer but I am not -- not the I
22 supervisor I am working for.
23 Q Why is that, sir?
24 A Because I don't think he likes me too well.
. 25 Q Why do you hold that opinion?
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12499 ;
1 A Because I addressed him in an allegation.
2 Q Mr. Tuite was the subject of your concern in instructing 3 you not to work to 4.8.3?
4 A Yes.
5 Q And you had contact with Mr. Tuite the one day that you 6 were on the job first shift?
7 A Yes.
8 Q And how did that go?
9 A No problem.
10 MR. GUILD: No problem, all right, sir.
11 Now, I had made a request of -- strike that.
( 12 Mr. Chairman, I am going to circulate a final 13 document or a document -- I won't say it's a final f
14 document now -- which I would ask be marked as 15 Intervenors' Exhibit 134 for identification.
16 This has been previously identified as Deposition 17 Exhibit 15.
18 It's an August 28, 1986, memo from Mr. Shamblin to 19 Messrs. Maiman, DelGeorge, Wallace, Preston, Marcus, 20 , Gieseker, Dougherty.
21
Subject:
J. W. Gieseker/M. Dougherty memo dated i 22 August 28, 1989.
I, 23 drhe document was thereupon marked l
l - 24 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 134 for
- 25 ,
identification as of September 10,'1986.)
Sennte; "eperting Service, Ltd.
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. . _ _ _ _ _ _(312) _ _ _232-0262 , _
12500 I I 1 BY MR. GUILD:
2 Q Mr. Archambeault, I take it you hadn't seen this memo 3 before I showed it to you at your deposition?
4 A No. -
5 Q Now, it appears to reflect, first, a meeting was going 6 to be held among these Edison people on your concerns.
7 Were you invited to such a meeting on or about 8 August 3 0, 1986?
9 A No.
10 0 Were you informed of such a meeting?
11 A No , I was n ' t .
O 12 Q All right. It also reflects that Shamblin says, second { }
13 paragraph, "I would like to explore how we might 14 approach these type of concerns in the future. We are 15 approaching a period of large layoffs and it can be 16 expected that we will encounter similar situations."
17 Now, do you know what Mr. Shamblin is referring to 18 when he says, "similar situations"?
19 A Yes, sir.
20 Q What is your understanding of that? What is your .
21 understanding of that term?
22 MR. GALLO: I object to that.
23 He doesn't have a basis for knowing what Mr. l
. 24 Shamblin means.
25 Is he inferring it from reading the memo? l Scant ag Reperting se r" ice, Ltd_
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12501 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I don't believe the witness 2 is competent nor, to tell you the truth, why you would 3 be of fering the document or asking about it.
4 I would think it would be Mr. Gallo who would be, 5 but I just don't think that the witness is competent to 6 speculate on what is referred to.
7 MR. GUILD: Let me put it this way, Mr.
8 Chairman:
9 I think.the position really is -- I intend to offer 10 this as an admission and I think it's adverse to 11 Applicant's position.
(A 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, you are certainly 13 entitled to offer it as an admission.
14 of course, I will stick with my own personal 15 opinion as to who would be served better by the 16 doc ument.
17 MR. GUILD: I would appreciate it if you 18 would hear from me before you arrive at any position, 19 Judge, since I haven't had a chance to say anything on 20 the question.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All right. I would think 22 you would have to lay some better foundation than just 23 asking the witness to speculate on this.
~ 24 You should --
25 MR. GUILD: All right, sir, l
l 9^=ata; Reperting Serrice, Ltd.
I Geneva, Illinois 60134 l _ ___
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12502 1 BY MR. GUILD:
2 Q Mr. Archambeault, has anybody ever stated to you in 3 substance that it was their belief -- I am talking about 4 anybody in Comstock management or Edison management that '
5 it was their belief -- that you only raised your ,
6 concerns because you expected to be laid off, anyhow?
7 A That's the feeling I got.
8 MR. GUILD: Now, Mr. Chairman, I would offer 9 the document.
10 It's my belief that it reflects the company's view 11 that Mr. Archambeault has simply fabricated these 12 concerns because he expects to be laid off and, 13 therefore, they shouldn't credit the concerns.
14 I think that is an admission against the interests 15 ' of th'e company because they failed to --
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: You are certainly entitled 17 to of fer it as an admission.
18 Mr. Gallo, do you have an objection to it?
19 MR. GALLO: As an admission?
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes. ,
l 21 MR. GALLO: No.
22 I just object to this witness opining as to what he 23 thinks Mr. Shamblin meant.
24 MR. GUILD: I have withdrawn the question.
p 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, that explanation seems 90""ta; Reporti"O Ser'? ice, Ltd_
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12503 1 obvious to me, also, 'as to, perhaps, speculation on my 2 part, too; b'ut, again, for whatever it's worth, without 3 hearing the whole matter, I still have a preliminary 4 estimation as to who it benefits.
5 Is there any objection, Mr. Berry?
6 MR. BERRY: No objection, Mr. Chairman.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Admitted.
8 (The document was thereupon received into 9 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No.
10 134.)
11 MR. GUILD: Now, to close the circle, I had 12 made a request at the Archambeault deposition for any 13 update of the upper cable spreading room Nonconformance 14 Report.
15 It's been received in evidence. I believe it's 16 116, Mr. Chairman, i
17 Mr. Gallo this morning made available a series of
< 18 documents which I would like to have marked.
19 JUDGE COLE: Should I give a copy of this to 20 the witness?
21 MR. GUILD: Sure, Judge. It would be a help.
22 Does Applicant have a copy?
23 MR. GALLO: Yes.
24 What are you --
25 MR. GUILD: It's the NCR and the attachment I i I l
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12504 l l \
1 to the NCR. l 2 MR. GALLO: All right. j 3 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I would ask that 4 these documents together, that is the document that 5 appears to be Commonwealth Edison Company Nonconformance ,
6 Report numbered 841 and an attachment, dated April 15, 7 1982, Recommended Guidelines for Field Examination of 8 Suspected Non-Conformed Cable Bending Radius -- I ask 9 they be marked for identification as Intervenors' 10 _ Exhibit 135.
'll (The documents were thereupon marked 12 Intervenors' Exhibit No. 135 for 13 identification as of September 10, 1986.)
14 BY MR. GUILD:
15 Q Now, Mr. Archambeault, I take it -- well, you testified 16 that Mr. Gieseker informed you in the August 19th --
17 18th or 19th -- meeting that all of the cables in the 18 upper cable spreading room were to be reinspected?
~
19 A Yes.
20 Q All right. But that you were never shown any Comstock ,
21 Nonconformance Report that explicitly committed to 22 reinspecting all the cables?
23 A That is correct.
24 Q Now I am showing you a document that is a Commonwealth l l s 25 Edison Company Nonconformance Report with attachment, Sonnt=0 Seporting Ser" ice. Ltd_
! Geneva, Illinois 60134 l (312) 232-0262
l 12505 1 and I ask whether you have ever seen this before?
2 A No, I haven't.
3 Q Now, your deposition was taken on September 3,1986, was 4 it not?
5 A Yes.
6 Q All right. Now, the document before you appears to 7 reflect that the nonconformance was observed by -- it 8 appears to be the initial G. Tier; and what date is 9 shown by the date of the observation of the 10 nonconformance?
11 A (No response.)
)12 Q First the cover sheet.
13 (Indica ting. )
14 A 9-5-86.
15 0 Two days after your deposition testimony was taken.
16 If you look at Sheet 2 of 3 of that Nonconformance 17 Report, Mr. Archambeault, do you see under, " Item 15 18 (Continued)," the last paragraph?
19 A Yes.
20 Q Would you read that for the record, please, the last 21 paragraph under, " Item 15 (Continued)"?
22 A " Inspect each cable for damage from the point where the 23 cable leaves the pan to where it enters the riser.
. 24 (LKC-QC will inspect cables). Damaged cable shall be k 25 repaired per the attached guideline. If the damage Geneva,Illidois 60534~ ~ ~
(312) 232-0262 -- - ._. . .-
12506 l l 1 exceeds the guideline, submit an FPR to CECO for !
2 resolution."
3 Q Now, is that action, the inspection and repair of the 4 damaged cables, the action that you believe should have -
5 been taken on the nonconformance you identified back in 6 Februa ry of 19 86?
7 A I don't see where it says all cables. I see various 8 cables.
9 0 Where are you looking, Mr. Archambeault?
10 A On the first sheet of the nonconformance,- Block 9. It's 11 a description of nonconformance.
12 Q All right. Do you see any listing of the specific 13 damaged cables in this Nonconformance Report?
14 A No.
15 0 And is it your opinion that all of the cables should be 16 r eins pected?.
17 A All the ones in that area, yes.
18 Q All right.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me.
20 Does Sheet 3 of 4 have your cable listing?
21 MR. GUILD: No, sir.
22 I am informed by counsel and Applicant that that is 23 the riser identification. That is not the cable 24 identifica tion.
I I 25 BY MR. GUILD:
Feaatag Reperting Service, Ltd_
Geneva, Illinois 60134 l
(312) 232-0262
i 12507 i 1 Q Is that correct, Mr. Archambeault?
2 A That is correct.
3 Q Those are the' metal structural supports from which the 4 Kellum grips are suspended; is that correct?
. 5 A That's right.
6 Q But not the cables themselves?
7 A No, they are not the cables.
8 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I would ask that 9 this document and its attachment be received in
- 10 evidence .
- 11 JUDGE GROSSMAN
- Is there any objection?
12 MR. GALLO: No objection.
I 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Berry?
14 MR. BERRY: No objection from the Staff, Mr.
15 Chairman. ,
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Admitted.
(
- 17 (The document was thereupon received into 18 evidence as Intervenors' Exhibit No.
! 19 135.) l l . 20 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, that concludes my 21 examination of Mr. Archambeault.
i 22 Thanks.
! 23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, did you wish to l
, . . . 24 have a few minutes?
5 I 25 MR. GALLO: I think I can continue.
S^nnte; Rip ^rting service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 CULE R%fiWin -_
12508 e
l' I just want to get the exhibits straight.
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: As soon as you run out of 3 your initial topic questions and wish to take a break, 4 Mr. Gallo, just ask for it.
5 MR. GALLO: If the Board desires, we can take 6 a break now.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No. I just assumed that you 8 are not prepared for your full examination, so just feel 9 free to take your break any time you wish.
10 CROSS EXAMINATION I 11 BY. MR. GALLO 12 Q Mr. Archambeault, you were asked a number of questions 13 with respect to the footage marker problem that you had 14 identified.
l 15 Now, as I understand it, the cable -- and let's 16 take Okonite cable. I believe you testified that was 17 the.more prevalent used cable at the site.
18 That at intervals the footage marker identification 19 was imprinted on the cable and they were at every -- at 20 two foot intervals; is that correct?
21 A I believe so.
22 0 I have here what is a piece of Okonite cable, and I 23 understand it has on it footage markers and other 24 markings.
25 I wonder, first of all, if you could confirm for me l
( 9^nn*=0 D=por & ing Se r" ice. Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12509 1 whether or not it's Okonite cable of the type that is 2 installed at Braidwood?
3 A Yes, it is.
4 Q And is it installed by Comstock?
5 A Yes.
6 Q Now, could you point out for me on the cable the footage 7 marker?
8 A It's this yellow number.
9 (Indica ting. )
10 Q What is that number, please?
11 A Let me see it.
t 12 Q There is one here.
13 (Indica ting. )
14 A Right here.
15 (Indica ting. )
16 Q What number is that? That is 014386?
17
- A Yes.
18 Q And two feet from tLis number there should be another 19 number; is that right?
20 A Yes.
21 Q I guess this is 0143860, because this footage number is 22 0143861; is that correct?
23 A Yes, that is correct.
,. 24 Q And the footage number two feet further on should be --
25 it's not on here but it should be 62; is that correct?
cm....- .. m..... . . . . . - . t.a ~
Genev5', Illinoid 66134~
(312) 232-0262
1 l
l 12510 I I 1 It's not on the cable, I don't believe, no; but if 2 it's proper 1'y marked, it should be 62; isn't that right?
3 A I believe so.
4 Q Well, do you have any doubt on that score? -
5 A No.
6 Q All right. And then going the other direction, it 7 should be -- just referring to the last three digits, it 8 would be -- 859?
9 A That's correct.
10 Q Is that what it shows, can you tell?
11 A I can't tell what this says.
12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I think the company could 13 have afforded a longer piece here, Mr. Gallo.
14 MR. GALLO: Yes, yes. I guess the numbers 15 are so difficult to read, that we can't.
16 BY MR. GALLO:
17 Q It appears that the number that is most legible is 861 18 and then it's 863.
19 It wouldn't be 862, would it, because it's a two 20 foot interval?
21 A That's correct.
22 Q Then up here it appears to be 865, which is another two 23 foot inte rval; and if you were to go two feet further 24 along towards in the direction I have been asking you 25 questions about, it would be 867, et cetera, if it was l I Sea"ta; Reporti=g Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12511 1 properly marked?
2 A Correct.
3 MR. GUILD: Just to be clear, it skips a
. 4 digit, is that the idea, every two foot?
5 THE WITNESS: Yes.
6 MR. GUILD: 1, 3, 5, et cetera?
7 THE WITNESS: Yes.
8 BY MR. GALLO:
9 Q Now, let me ask you another question here.
10 I noticed there is another marking on here. Could 11 you tell me what that is?
! 12 It says, "The Okonite Company.'" 'I assume that's
- 13 the name of the manuf acturer?'
14 A Yes, it is.
15 Q And then there is " PLT. No. 1."
16 Do you know what that means? .
17 A That's the plant. That was the plant it was 18 manufactured at.
19 0 .And, "3/C No. 14 AWB"?
20 A That is 3 conductor,14 wire size, 600 volts.
21 Q And does that describe what this cable is?
22 A Yes.
23 Q And then there is BR54.
,. 24 Do you know what that is?
>/
j (,,. 25 A That is the reel number. That's the reel that the cable Seaata; Pepertia; Se rvice , L td _
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12512 i I l
1 came off of.
2 O You call that the -- is it correct that the reel that 3 this cable came off would be marked BR54 as well as the 4 cable?
5 A That's correct.
6 Q Now, why does the wire, the cable in this instance, have 7 the reel number as well as the reel number being 8 recorded on the reel itself?
9 Do you know why that marking is there?
10 A Why the "BR" number is on it?
11 Q Yes.
12 A So they can trace that cable back to that reel. I }
13 Q So the reel number is used for traceability purposes; is 14 that your understanding?
15 A That's right.
16 Q Now, turning your attention now to the cable that you 17 observed with the incorrect footage marker:
18 Let's take Mr. Guild's example, starting with 19 footage marker 1, the next one would be 3, assuming it 20 was properly marked, and then 5, then 7.
21 Then if I understand your testimony, you 22 encountered a number of intervals, using my example, 23 that would be marked 7, 7, 7.
24 Is that correct?
- 25 A That's right.
l i 9^n"t?O D="^rt4"O 9er"ica, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12513 1 Q And then the number after a number of consecutive 7's, 2 at a number of intervals, it then changed to the next 3 number and in my example it would be 8.
4 There were a number of 8's at two foot intervals on 5 this example; is that correct?
6 A It would have been repetitive, yes.
7 0 It was repetitive; and that continued for sometime and 8 then, I believe it was your testimony, that the number 9 -- and correct me if I am wrong -- the footage marker 10 straightened itself out or corrected itself.
11 Is that your testimony?
12 A That is correct.
13 Q Now, how did that occur?
14 A I don't know how it occurred.
15 0 I mean, how did you arrive at the judgment that the 16 footage --
17 A Because that --
18 Q -- that the footage marker number had straightened 19 itself out?
20 A As far as the number itself, say, we were up to 10, and 21 then it corrected, the next footage mark two foot away 22 was 11 -- or, excuse me, was 12 and so on.
23 Q So at the point where the footage marker corrected
. 24 itself on the cable that you had observed, is my 25 understanding correct that the correct footage marker
,_ _.. ..,_,.._,s.,_1-. . s..
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 _
12514 l
1 took into account all the intervals that had been 2 mislabeled?
3 A I don't know about that.
4 Q What did you mean then by that it had corrected itself -
5 or straightened itself out?
6 A That the numbers just started, started at two foot 7 increments and wasn't repetitive after that.
8 Q And it was a proper sequence?
9 A That's right.
10 Q All right.
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: You are really testifying 12 that it hadn't corrected itself; it had skipped a 13 certain footage and then went consecutively but never 14 made up for that skipped footage?
15 THE WITNESS: That's true.
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
17 BY MR. GALLO:
18 0 Now, the piece of cable that we are talking about, I 19 believe it was your testimony that Mr. Tuite approved it 20 for use, even though it had the footage marker 21 discrepancy that you have described, and approved the 22 pull continuing; is that correct?
l 23 A Yes.
! 24 Q Now, are we talking about a single piece of cable?
25 A We are talking about one cable. I I ememue- nomm.*4m-
~
em..4-. rua l
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ Geneva,ifilsois-~65i34-~~' i (312) 232-0262
12515 O
1 Q How long was the cable, in your estimation?
2 A It was around 250, 250 foot.
3 0 250 foot of cable?
- 4 A Yes.
5 Q So is my understanding correct that at one end of the 6 cable the footage marker was appropriate, in that the 7 proper number sequencing at two foot intervals were 8 indicated; and then after a while, say -- I am not 9 holding you to this but, say, 60 feet from the end, the 10 marker problem occurred and then the interval picked up 11 some 50 feet further on until the other end of the cable T 12 was reached.
13 Is that correct?
14 A Yes.
15 ,
Q All right. So the footage marker problem was in the 16 middle of the cable that was being used?
17 A No. It was at one end.
18 Q All right, one end, all right.
19 But it wasn't at the very end, was it? There was 20 some portion of one end of the cable that was marked 21 properly?
22 A I can't say it was marked properly.
23 Q Well, there was some portion of the cable at the end
... 24 that had footage markings that reflected a proper
- 25 numeric value in relation to the two foot interval?
Scaatag Reporting Ser" ice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 .
12516 O
1 A That is correct.
2 Q That is correct, all right.
3 Then a discrepancy occurred and then it l
4 straightened itself out, as you have testified; correct? -
5 A That's correct.
6 Q All right. Now, I believe you testified at your 7 deposition that you felt that the pull should have been 8 suspended and L. K. Comstock Engineering called to 9 evaluate the matter, as provided in the installation
~
10 procedure that you referred to.
11 I believe it's 3.8.3; is that correct?
e 12 A 4.3.8.
i 13 Q I am sor ry.
14 4.3.8, that's the correct installation procedure?
15 A Yes. .
16 Q Was my statement otherwise correct?
17 A Per the procedure, they were supposed to stop.
18 Q All right. And they didn't do that?
19 A No, they didn't.
20 0 All right. Now, did you believe that a procedure 21 violation occurred at the time that Tuite authorized the 22 ' pull to continue?
)
23 A Yes, I felt there was. l 24 Q Who violated the procedure?
25 A Craft did. I I 9ennt=0 Paperting Seruice. Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
l 12517 I O
1 To me, we did when we went ahead and let them 2 violate their procedure, because we were supposed to l l
3 also work with the work procedure. 1 4 Q So you believe that craft violated the procedure and you 5 believe that Comstock QA violated the procedure; is that 6 correct?
7 A QC.
8 0 QC, I am sorry.
9 A We compounded it.
10 Q All right. Now, I thought it was your testimony in 11 answer to Mr. Guild's questions that craft had made no f\
~J 12 judgment on the question; that they asked you for advice 13 and guidance on what they should do in the situation 14 involving the particular cable that had the discrepant 15 footage markers.
16 A They should have stopped themselves.
17 Q Didn't they, in fact, ask you for advice and guidance on 18 what they should do?
19 A Yes, they did.
20 Q So they made no decision whatsoever on that question; is 21 that correct?
22 A Yes.
23 Q All right. And then Tuite came along and reviewed the 24 matter and told them it was okay to continue the pull; f-I )
Q / 25 is that correct?
Senntag Reperting Scr'fice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12518 I I 1 A He told me that, yes.
2 Q At the time'that your advice was solicited, why didn't 3 you convey to the craft the opinion that you have 4 testified to right here in this proceeding? -
5 A Why I didn't stop them?
6 Q Yes. Let me -- perhaps I am assuming too much.
7 Did you tell them -- when the craft requested your 8 opinion as to what guidance they wanted, as to what they l
9 should do with the cable with the discrepancy and the i 10 footage marker, did you tell them -- they ought to l l
11 suspend the pull and get LKC Engineering and have them '
12 evaluate the matter,'in accordance with the installation j 13 procedure?
14 A I showed them the paragraph in the procedure.
15 Q You showed them the paragraph.
16 Did you tell them that as a QC Inspector you 17 thought they should suspend the pull per that 18 installation paragraph?
19 A That iras my opinion.
20 Q I am sorry?
21 A That was my opinion.
22 Q Did you tell them that?
23 A That they should stop?
24 Q Yes.
25 A I was told I couldn't stop them.
ennn*,7 norm *ing e. ir.; r.*a Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
i 12519 1
'h ;
1 Q Well, let's get the sequence of events.
2 Your advice was sought by craft; correct?
3 A That's right.
4 Q Now, was Tuite there at that moment, right standing --
5 A He was --
6 Q -- standing at your side?
7 A No. He was in the area.
8 Q Did he hear the request made by craft at the point in j 9 time you were asked?
10 A No.
11 Q So at this point in time Tuite doesn't know about the l l'
( 12 question; correct?
13 A No.
14 Q Now, I want to know: At this time did you tell the 15 craft, who were seeking your advice, that it was your 16 judgmdnt, per the installation procedure, that the pull 17 should stop and that LKC Engineering should be called 18 and summoned to evaluate the situation?
19 A I made him aware of that statement in the procedure.
20 Q My question is: Did you tell them that they should 21 suspend the pull and call LKC management?
22 A I cannot tell the craft what to do.
23 Q They sought your advice; isn't that correct? They were 24 seeking it?
i ?,..
25 A They asked me what to do. I can't direct the craft.
Sennteg Repertin; Serrice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12520 l l 1 Q So is the answer to my question that you didn't -- in 2 response to'their solicitation for advice, you didn't --
3 tell them that they should suspend the pull and seek 4 engineering advice. All you did was show them the -
5 language of the installation procedure.
6 Is that correct?
7 A That's right.
8 Q All right. And upon showing them the language of the 9 installation procedure, what was their response? Before 10 you -- let me strike that, withdraw that question and 11 ask another question.
12 Who were you talking with? Was it a number of 13 craft people or was it the craft foreman?
14 Who was it who was seeking your advice?
15 A It was the lead.
16 Q The lead on the crew, and you showed the lead on the 17 crew the language in 4.3.8; is that correct?
18 A That's right.
19 Q And what transpired at that point? What did the lead 20 do?
21 A I told him I wanted to ask Mr. Tuite about it.
22 O Well, did the lead indicate to you that he still wanted 23 advice and information, notwithstanding that you had 24 showed him the relevant portion of the installation 25 procedure? I I i
Senata; Reperting Seruice, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12521 1 A He didn't do anything. He just waited for me.
2 Q Well, let's get this straight.
3 You showed him the language, because you felt you 4 couldn't tell him that he should suspend the pull.
5 I take it he took some time to ' read the language; 6 is that correct?
7 A Yes.
8 0 What was his response at that point?
9 A He didn't really respond to me.
10 Q All right, he didn't respond, l
11 He just stood silent; is that it?
t 12 A I told him that I wanted to ask Bob Tuite about it.
13 Q Now, you wanted to get advice as to what to do; is that 14 correct?
15 A I won't say nothing.
16 Q You won't say that.
17 Is that because you didn't need the advice?
18 A What are you trying to prove?
19 MR. GALLO: You will just have to answer my 20 question, sir.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Archambeault, you are 22 just supposed to answer the questions to the best of 23 your ability.
__ 24 THE WITNESS: I have already answered them 25 over and over and over.
Seaate; Reperting Service, Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12522 l l 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I don't believe so. ,
2 Mr. Gal'lo is entitled to probe into the details of 3 what you have answered, and some of the details you 4 haven't given. p 5 Now, you have indicated that you couldn't order .
6 them to stop and you didn't but you pointed out to them 7 what appears as though should have required them to 8 stop.
9 Now, he is asking: What took place further in that 10 sequence?
11 Did they then -- apparently, they didn't do 12 anything until you went to Mr. Tuite; is that correct?
13 THE WITNESS: That's right.
14 MR. GALLO: My question is whether -- I asked 15 the witness whether he was seeking advice of Mr. Tuite; 16 and he said he wouldn't -- and he said no.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No. He said he wouldn't 18 answer that.
19 MR. GALLO: I thought he said he wouldn't say 20 that, which meant he didn't know.
21 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. I don't know what 22 that me ans .
23 MR. GALLO: Okay. Let's start from that 24 p oin t .
3 25 BY MR. GALLO:
Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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12523
-l 1 Q Let me --
2 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I take it you wish to concur 3 with Mr. Tuite on this problem; is that so?
4 THE WITNESS: No.
5 BY MR. GALLO:
6 Q All right. Let me -- strike that.
7 You showed the relevant portion of the installation 8 procedure to the craft lead, he didn't respond and your 9 testimony is that then you wanted -- you sought out Mr.
10 Tuite.
11 I am trying to find out why it is you sought out g ( ) 12 Mr. Tuite.
13 My first question was: Did you want to. get advice 14 and guidance; and I believe your testimony was no.
15 Let me please confirm or you change your testimony 16 if I misunderstand it.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Excuse me. I am not sure t
18 that we established that he sought out Mr. Tuite.
l l
19 Did you seek out Mr. Tuite at that point?
l 20 THE WITNESS: Mr. Tuite was in the area.
21 MR. GALLO: The man's name is spelled l
l 22 T-U-I-T-E.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, Tuite.
... 24 Did you seek out Mr. Tuite at that point?
(s 25 THE WITNESS: He was in the area.
l em .s.m o.mm.*4mm c 4m. r*a l Gineva",'iiiinois~~60134~ ~ ~ ~
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12524 0
1 MR. GALLO: All right. Let me rephrase the 2 question.
3 BY MR. GALLO:
4 Q After you got no response from the craft lead, what was -
5 the next thing you did?
6 A I don't remember.
7 Q All right. Did you tell the lead that, in your 8 j ud gment , the installation procedure provision required 9 that the pull be suspended and that advice be sought 10 from Comstock Engineering?
11 A (No response.)
12 MR. GALLO: Do you have the question?
13 ^THE WITNESS: (No response.)
14 MR. GALLO: Do you understand the question, 15 Mr. Archambeault?
16 THE WITNESS: I don't understand any of this.
17 MR. BERRY: Mr. Chairman --
18 MR. GALLO: Mr. Chairman, it seems that --
19 strike that.
20 BY MR. GALLO:
21 Q Do I understand that you are refusing to answer because 22 you are happy with the course of my questioning?
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo --
24 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I believe that 25 there is -- I I Sonntag Reperting Se r" ice, Ltd_
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262 l
12525 1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: --
it seems to me we have 2 had this. It may be the same problem we have had before 3 as to whether --
4 THE WITNESS: Can I say something?
5 This is exactly why the inspectors aren't caning 6 forward, because they don't want to go through this 7 crap.
8 MR. GALLO: I believe that that explains why 9 the witness won't answer the question.
10 MR. GUILD: I believe that it explains --
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Let me say something, Mr.
12 Gallo.
s4 13 THE WITNESS: How many times do I have to 14 tell the story, how many times?
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: No, Mr. Archambeault. Let's 16 find out what the problem is here.
17 We have had some witnesses who appeared to have 18 been reluctant to say things because it may not have 19 been by the book and, therefore, they were apprehensive 20 about what their testimony could be taken to mean in 21 terms of their jobs, i 22 Now, where that has happened, if the testimony 23 really wasn't necessary, we haven't allowed the 24 questions.
, \.. (q 25 We are certainly not trying to have the witnesses l
- ennn
- m nonm,*4-m e..o4,. r*a Ge6eva', iiii6ois~ s0i34 ~~~ l (312) 232-0262
12526 j l I 1 intimidated into answering or not answering because of 2 concerns other than what we have involved here.
3 MR. GALLO: Your Honor, I --
4 JUDGE CROSSMAN: Now, I don't know if we are -
5 faced with that situation. .
6 MR. GALLO: All right.
7 JUDGE GROSSMAN: And I am not trying -- I 8 think we ought to avoid the problem of forcing a witness 9 to say things that he feels might be detrimental to his 10 job security, when it's not important to the case.
11 But I am just suggesting that may be the problem, 12 and I am not suggesting that you are trying to put him l
13 in that position, but that may be the context in which 14 we are operating now.
15 MR. GALLO: I suggest the Board ask him that l
16 question, so we can proceed.
17 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, no. I think we maybe l 18 ought to take a recess now and perhaps counsel --
l
' ~
19 someone -- might confer with the witness and find out if l 20 we have any real problems, if there is any reason why he 21 appears to be inhibited from answering the questions and 22 how we can avoid this problem.
23 I don't know now which counsel is appropriate for l 24 that, but I guess the witness can talk to anyone he 25 wants to.
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12527 D
1 MR. GALLO: I will make the representation
~
2 and commitment on the record that this witness's 3 testimony won't be used against him if'any type of job 4 punishment or disciplinary action whatsoever; and that 5 if this witness, nevertheless, feels some reticence, 6 that we could go in camera and exclude everybody but 7 counsel, if that's necessary in order. to make him feel 8 comfortable; but I --
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, I would suggest that 10 we don't take that step right now but that the witness 11 confer with whomever he wants and that maybe all of
( 12 these problems will resolve themselves when we get back.
13 So why don't we take a ten-minute break at this 14 point?
i 15 MR. GALLO: Who do you want to consult with, 16 Mr. Archambeault?
17 We are off the record, aren't we?
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes. I don't think this has 19 to be public.
20 (WHEREUPON, a recess was had, after which 21 the hearing was resumed as follows:)
I 22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We are back on the record.
23 I wish to remind the witness that the questions may
) ,. 24 seem repetitive because they have already been asked on j 25 deposition, and I want to remind the witness again that Seaa*=0 Sepertia; Ser= ice. Ltd .
Geneva, Illinois 60134
_ _ . - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _____ _ __. . ___ (312) 232-0262 . _ _ , _ ,_
12528 9
1 whatever went on deposition is not in evidence. We 2 weren't there.
3 Mr. Gallo may have asked you these questions three 4 or four times, but it's the first time here. So you -
5 only ought to take into account what you've been asked 6 here, because your deposition is just a trial run for 7 the attorneys and not for the Hearing Board.
8 So in any event, let's continue with the 9 questioning.
10 Mr. Gallo?
11 THE WITNESS: May I say something first?
12 JUDGE GFOSSMAN: Oh, sure.
13 THE WITNESS: I'm extremely tired. I didn't 14 get a lot of rest last night. I didn't feel good.
15 That's one reason.
16 Also, I want you to excuse my actions prior to the 17 break.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay.
~
19 If you feel, though, that you can't continue --
20 THE WITNESS: I would like to answer the last 21 ques tion.
22 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
23 If you then reach a point where you think you're
.., 24 overtired and can't continue, just tell us and we'll 25 break for the day, at least for you, and we'll go on to I I Senate; Deporting Se-" ice, Ltd_
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12529 O l 1 other things then.
2 Mr. Gaflo?
I 3 MR. GALLO: I wonder if it's possible for the '
4 last question to be repeated.
5 Do we have the last question?
6 THE NOTARY: No. I'm sorry. 1 7 THE WITNESS: Can I explain this to you?
8 MR. GALLO: No. I'd like to ask the 9 questions.
10 I believe the last question I asked was --
11 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm not sure that you asked 12 the last question, Mr. Gallo. I may have, and we were 13 to the point as to why the witness conferred with Mr.
14 Tuite.
15 MR. GALLO: I have it now.
I 16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine.
17 BY MR. GALLO:
18 0 I asked you whether or not you told the Lead on the crew 19 of the craft group that, in your judgment, they should 20 suspend the pull and obtain the advice of L. K.
21 Comst ock. This was after you had showed the Lead the 22 procedure and he had responded in essentially a 23 nonfashion; he simply looked at it and said nothing to
.. 24 you.
25 My question was: Then at that point in time, did
~ ~ ~ ~Ge6eva", ~ifiinois' ~ 60i34- ~ ~
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12530 1 you tell the Lead that, in your judgment, the action to 2 be taken was to suspend the pull and seek the advice of 3 LKC Engineering?
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, Mr. Gallo, I don't -
5 want to quibble, but I think he already answered that 6 question. He said that he didn't have the authority to 7 do that and so he didn't. Then you went on to another 8 question.
9 But all right. If you want to ask that again, 10 fine.
11 Can the witness answer that question?
12 THE WITNESS: I can explain why I did what'I { }
13 did.
14 MR. GALLO: Can you answer my question?
15 BY MR. GALLO:
16 Q Did you tell the Lead, at the time I've explained to 17 you, that, in your opinion, the pull should be suspended 18 and Engineering should be notified and their advice 19 taken?
20 A Yes; but that --
21 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, the witness 22 certainly should answer the question directly, but he 23 should understand he has a right to explain his answer.
24 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. I believe he answered 25 yes.
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12531 1 Is that your complete answer?
2 THE WITNESS: No.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, I'm sorry.
4 A (Continuing.) The reason --
5 MR. GALLO: I would like to try to conduct 6 this cross examination without it being terribly 7 trammeled.
8 I would like the Chair to direct this witness to 9 answer the question and then he should explain, and he i
10 has the right to explain to the fullest extent of his i
, 11 desire.
(f 12 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay, fine. -
13 Do you understand that?
14 THE WITNESS: Yes.
15 A (Contin uing. ) I conveyed to him that it was my opinion 16 that they should stop, but I didn't know if I had the 17 authority to stop them.
18 BY MR. GALLO:
! 19 Q I'm sorry. That they should stop?
20 A That they should stop.
~
21 I didn't know if I had the authority to stop them.
22 That's why I went to Bob Tuite and asked him.
23 Q All right.
_, 24 At this time did you suggest to the Lead that he
,( _ 25 ought to contact his foreman and obtain advice as to seaate; "eacrtie; Ser" ice. Ltd.
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1 what should be done in the circumstance?
2 A I followed Nr. Tuite's instructions.
3 Q No, no.
4 Did you tell the Lead -- in addition to what you've 5 testified to, did you suggest to him that he seek out .
6 his foreman and get advice with respect to the matter at 7 hand?
8 A No, I didn't. I just showed him the paragraph in the 9 proced ure.
10 Q All right.
11 It's true that it is the installation procedure 12 that the craft works by; isn't that correct?
13 A That's correct.
14 Q And the foreman is -- in connection with the section of 15 the procedure at issue here and that we're discussing, 16 the foreman is supposed to make the judgment that's 17 called for by the installation procedure; isn't that 18 correct?
~
19 A I believe so.
20 Q But you didn't suggest to the Lead that he seek out the ,
21 foreman and get his advice?
22 A No, I didn't.
23 Q All right.
24 So you weren't sure -- you had an opinion of what I I
. 25 action should be taken, but you weren't sure if you had gnnn*ng nonnr*4ig Sorui_co; tra_
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i 12533 u
4 1 the authority to tell the craft, so you then wanted to
- 2 get the advice of Mr. Tuite; is that correct?
?
3 A That's correct.
4 Q All right.
! 5 And then did you thereupon seek him out?
6 A Yes, I did.
7 Q And did you ask him for assistance?
i i 8 A Yes, I did.
, 9 Q Did you ask him if you had the authority to tell the l 10 craft what to do in this circumstance?
11 A Yes.
12 Q And what did he respond?
< x .x 13 A He said no, that we didn't work to the work procedure.
14 Q All right.
5 15 And isn't that, in fact, the case?
16 Isn't the procedure we're talking about a craft 17 procedure for the installation of cable?
18 A Yes; but we have to work to it.
19 Q But don't you inspect to a different procedure, 4.8.8?
20 A Yes, and 4.8.8 references 4.3.8. .
l !
f 21 Q Didn't you understand Mr. Tuite to be saying that an <
l 22 interpretation of the installation procedure -- that is, l j 23 the procedure used by the craft -- ought to be made by
,.. 24 the craft and, in this case, the foreman?
i\. 25 A Yes, it should have been made by them.
i i
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1.2534 1 Q But didn't you understand that's really what Mr. Tuite 2 was telling'you?
3 A No.
4 Q You didn't understand that? -
5 A No.
6 Q After he told you that you didn't work -- or "we didn't 7 work to that procedure," what happened next?
8 Did he -- did you take him over to talk to the 9 Lead?
10 A No, I didn't.
11 Q You didn't?
12 A Uh-uh.
- 13 Q Did he, in fact, talk to the Lead, do you know, within 14 that time frame?
15 A No.
16 Q How was the -- strike that.
17 Did he tell you to tell the Lead to continue the 18 pull?
~
19 A He said to continue cutting the cable.
20 0 Continue -- oh, this cable was being cut from the reel 21 at the time the footage marker was --
22 A We were just starting the precut.
23 Q You vere unreeling it to measure the right length?
.. 24 A That's correct.
r 25 0 All right. I I l i.
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1 So Tuite said, " Continue the precut"?
2 A That's right.
3 Q Did he say anything more?
4 A No, he didn't.
5 Q All right.
6 And did you go to the Lead and give that advice to 7 the Lead?
8 A No, I didn't.
9 Q What did the Lead do?
10 A He continued to cut the cable.
11 Q Without getting more advice from you on the question?
( 12 A That's correct.
13 Q Do you know whether or not, in the time that you were 14 talking to Mr. Tuite, the Lead went to his foreman to 15 get an opinion on the question?
16 A I don't think he did.
17 Q Well, do you know whether or not he did?
18 A I didn't see him leave the area.
19 Q Would you -- at the point where you were talking to Mr.
20 Tuite, did you have him in sight at all times?
21 A Yes.
22 Q And he didn't leave the area?
23 A No.
. 24 Q All right.
(q 25 And were you -- I take it you were engaged in 9^aa*eg ==rartia; Service. L*d.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
1;2536 1 conversation with Mr. Tuite.
2 Were you kind of keeping your eye on the Lead at 3 the same time?
4 A We were standing right by the reel. -
5 0 And the Lead was there, also? ,
6 A Yes.
7 Q All right.
8 So if I understand it, the cable was unreeled to 9 the proper length and then it was cut, and then the pull 10 ensued thereafter; is that correct?
11 A It wasn't cut until after I was told to proceed with the 12 pull.
13 Q Well, let's try to be accurate here.
14 I thought that all Tuite said was to proceed with 15 cutting the cable.
16 A No. He meant to do the whole pull.
17 Q That was your understanding; he didn't say that, but 18 that's what you thought he meant; is that correct?
~
19 A That's what he meant.
20 0 That's what you thought he meant?
21 A No. That's what he meant.
22 0 Well, did he say, " Continue with the pull"?
23 A I don't remember if he said, " Continue with the pull,"
, 24 or, " Continue with the cut."
i 25 Q Oh, I see.
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1 Your prior testimony that he said, " Continue with 2 the cut," may not be correct; it may be at this point he 3 said one or the other?
4 A He may have said " pull"; he may have said " cut."
5 All I know is I went ahead and continued the pull.
6 Q You went ahead and continued the pull, all right.
7 Now, in this circumstance had craft violated their 8 own procedure?
9 A Yes.
10 Q Had they done it unknowingly and unwittingly or had they 11 done it on the basis of the advice that you conveyed
',()12 them based on your discussion with Tuite?
13 A I don't think they were aware of the work procedure.
14 0 Well, you showed it to them, didn't you?
15 A I mean, prior to that.
16 Q All right.
17 But they had a chance to read it and --
18 A That's correct.
19 0 Isn't it correct that craft essentially followed the 20 advice of QC on this matter?
21 A Well, as I said, I couldn't direct craft whether they 22 should stop or continue with the pull. That's why I 23 talked to Mr. Tuite.
24 0 I understand that, but I'm now asking you whether or not x 25 the craft was continuing the pull and the cutting based i
em--* m e mm.*4-m e. . ., 4 m . r.a l Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) ._
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12538 I I 1 on the advice of QC.
2 Did the Lead hear Tuite tell you what you've 3 testified to?
4 A Yes. -
5 Q And on the basis of that understanding, is that why you 6 believe, therefore, the Lead then continued the cut and 7 the pull?
8 A That's correct.
9 Q All right.
10 A There was also a trainee with me, too.
11 0 So, in effect, the Lead was acting on the information he 12 overheard during the conversation between you and Tuite?
13 A Yes.
14 Q All right.
15 Now, if the violation, as you see it, occurred -- I 16 believe you testified at the deposition that you thought 17 it was a procedural violation -- that is, a violation of 18 the procedure, the installation procedure -- but that it
~
19 had had no effect on quality.
20 Am I recalling your testimony correctly?
21 A It wasn't detrimental to the cable, right.
22 Q And why was that?
23 A Footage marks is only a -- a stamp of ink. I mean, it's 24 not going to af fect the quality of the cable; just the 25 accountability. I I 9 ann *=0 caparti'c S=ruica; L*d_
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12539 1 Q In fact, in cutting the cable, the right amount that was 2 intended was able to be derived; is that true, too?
3 A Yes.
1 4 Q The crew was able to cut the amount of cable that they 5 intended to cut?
6 A Yes.
l 7 0 Okay.
8 Now, the procedure involved is a section called 9 3.5.1.1, and Mr. Guild asked you a number .of questions 10 about it.
11 I believe that you have interpreted this procedure f a
' 12 -- I'll show it to you, if you like -- to mean that 13 anytime a discrepancy is noted -- for example, the 14 example I'm using is the one that I'm interested in, 15 nonconsecutive footage markers -- the Engineering
. 16 Department is to be contacted immediately and pulling 17 from the affected reel suspended until the discrepancy 1
18 is documented.
i 19 Is that how you're interpreting it?
20 A Yes.
21 Q Now, would you agree with me that the procedure doesn't 22 say anyching about cutting from the reel or is the 23 language the same and synonymous?
24 If you'd like to look at it --
s 25 (Indicating.)
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12540 till !
1 A It says, "and pulling from the reel" - "the af fected ;
2 reel will be suspended until the discrepancy is 3 document ed. "
4 0 So is that the same thing as the precut exercise -- -
5 A Yes.
6 Q -- that you described?
7 A That's the way I inte rpreted it, yes.
8 Q All right.
9 Now, the section, in fact, reads, "If any 10 discrepancies are noted which may af fect cable 11 accountability -- for example, nonconsecutive footage 12 marke rs -- then the Engineering Department" is to be 13 notified and immediately pulling from the affected reel 14 is supposed to be suspended.
15 Now, as I understand your interpretation of this 16 section, you're not giving any credit or weight to the 17 word "if."
18 You're reading the section as if it started out, 19 "Any discrepancies are noted -- for example, 20 nonconsecutive footage markers" -- then you must 21 suspend, et cetera, until after Engineering has had a 22 chance to review the matter.
23 Isn't that true?
24 A That I don't see the word "if"?
25 No, no -- yes. I I Q
l Senatag neporting Service, Ltd.
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i j 12541 1
I l
l 1 The word "if" -- the section does start out with 2 the word "if"; isn't that right?
3 A Yes.
4 Q Under your interpretation, you're really not taking that
- 5 word into account; isn't that true?
l j 6 A No. ,
! 7 Q So you would agree that the word --
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I believe he's answering no, 9 that he is taking it into account.
10 Is that what your answer is?
11 THE WITNESS: Yes.
i 12 MR. GALLO: That's what I understand his 13 answer is.
j 14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay.
]
15 BY MR. GALLO: '
- 16 Q So you agree that you don't automatically suspend in the i
17 circumstances that you and Tuite and the Lead were i 18 conf ronted with; you only do it if the cable l
l 19 accountability is affected; isn't that true?
! 20 A I believe the cable --
i l 21 Q Look at the language and see if that isn't true, i
22 A My interpretation of it is accountability on the 23 records, not so much as -- he can measure out a cable 24 physically, but what about the records? What happens if
, f, i
l s_, 25 there's a defect in the cable?
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l 12542 I I 1 The records wouldn't be right.
2 Q My question'is: Doesn't the provision which you 3 interpreted and sought the advice of Tuite indicate that 4 suspension would only occur if cable accountability is -
5 adversely af fected by the nonconforming activity; in ,
6 this case, nonconsecutive footage markers?
7 A And I still feel --
8 Q Can you answer my question yes or no and then explain?
9 A No.
10 Q I'm sorry?
11 A No.
o 12 Q You don't read it that way; you read it, on the other 13 hand, that --
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I think, Mr. Gallo, you 15 ought to use that word "may" in there, also, when you're 16 reading that paragraph.
17 MR. GALLO: I certainly intended the use of 18 that term.
19 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I believe the witness has 20 answered the question already. .
21 BY MR. GALLO:
22 0 Well, let me be clear on the Judge's point.
23 Would you agree that under the section I've been 24 asking you questions on, it's not automatic?
I 25 It may happen, but it may not happen under this Sann*ag capar*ing 9-ruice; Ltd.
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12543 1 provision that the pulling from the reel be suspended 2 upon finding a discrepancy like a nonconsecutive footage 3 ma rke r?
l 4 It depends on whether or not cable accountability 5 would be adversely af fected; isn't that right?
6 A My interpretation is it should have been suspended.
7 Q All right, but can you answer my question?
8 We're interpreting this provision now.
9 Isn't it a matter of discretion?
10 A No.
l 11 Q It's supposed to happen automatically as soon as the
( 12 discrepancy occurs; is that your testimony?
13 A If the craft find a deficiency in the footage marks, 14 then they should stop automatically without QC ever 15 saying a word to t'em.
16 Q Yes, but without regard to whether or not the
- 17 discrepancy adversely affects cable accountability?
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, I think he's
- 19 answered the question, and we can read that section, f, 20 too.
l 21 I happen personally not to read it the same way you
! 22 do, but I think after two or three times asking the same i
23 question and already getting the answer --
. . , 24 MR. GALLO: He hasn't given me a responsive 25 answe r.
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, he has. He's answered l 2 that he believes that it is automatic that if there is I 3 that discrepancy, that paragraph applies. He's said 4 that. I'm sure that's in the record. -
5 MR. GALLO: Well, your characterization of ,
6 the testimony is not really responsive to my question.
7 I want to know whether, under the paragraph at 8 issue here; suspension of taking cable from the reel 9 automatically occurs when the discrepancy is noted.
10 That's my question.
11 MR. GUILD: He's asked and answered that 12 question several times already. -
l 13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The answer has been yes.
14 MR. GALLO: Can we get confirmation of that?
15 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Yes.
16 Is your answer yes?
17 THE WITNESS: Yes.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All right.
19 BY MR. GALLO:
20 Q Now, I notice that the section in question here, 21 3.5.1.1, t alks about af fecting cable accountability, and 22 it says "for example, nonconsecutive footage markers."
23 Isn't it true that the purpose of footage markers 24 is to be able to count up the number of feet of cable I I
, 25 used so that the cable can be accounted for from a cost en,-+.n o.nn +< - e . .,, < n . ,es
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1 standpoint?
2 A That's not my interpretation of it.
3 Q That's not your interpretation of it?
4 A No.
5 Q All right.
6 What is your interpretation?
f 7 You believe it's for -- I believe you already 8 testified that you thought it was for traceability.
9 A Partially, yes.
10 Q Partially.
11 I thought you testified, in answer to one of my ,
,.~..
( 12 questions, that the reel number on the cable was there
's 13 for traceability purposes.
14 A That is, too, also for that reason.
15 Q Well, let's assume that the manuf acturer of the Okonite 16 cable determines that, with respect to Reel 150, they've 17 suddenly discovered, after the delivery of this cable to 18 the user, that there's a generic defect in the cable.
19 They issue what is the equivalent of a recall 20 order. They contact the user and say, "The cable in 21 Reel 150 is defective for some reason. Change it."
22 How would the footage markers assist in that 23 traceability situation?
- 24 A Okay. What happens if you had -- say, you received
, 25 2,000 feet of cable and there was a discrepancy between i l ennns n o.nnr+<nn e- ,,, < a.. . r>a Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12546 l l 1 the footage marks?
2 0 I'm sorry?
3 A Say, there was a discrepancy between the footage marks.
4 Q Like the one that we have here? -
t 5 A That's right.
I 6 Q All right.
7 Can you explain how that would aid in the 8 traceability of the cable?
9 A I've seen cable that was factory-spliced. Although the 10 whole cable wasn't bad, the manufacturer knew the 11 particular -- between what footage marks was bad.
12 0 So instead of recalling the whole reel, you might be 13 able to use the footage marker to just recall a part of I 14 the reel?
15 A That's correct. The first 1,000 feet could be good; the 16 second 1,000 feet could be bad.
17 Q So in this context, the footage marking numbers would be 18 used indeed for cost accountability purposes to not
~
19 waste perfectly good cable; isn't that correct?
20 MR. GUILD: Objection. It calls for 21 speculation.
22 The witness has already testified that he had no 23 knowledge of that fact and --
24 MR. GALLO:
The witness gave me the example.
25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: My problem here is I don't Sonntag Reporting Service, Ltd.
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s 12547 1 believe that the witness is competent to answer those
~
2 kinds of questions, Mr. Gallo. That goes beyond the l
3 scope of his duties here, and I think he's answered the 4 questions.
5 As to why the requirements are the way they are is 6 another story.
~
7 Now, he has not set himself out as a qualified i 8 engineer to discuss the purpose of all those 9 requirements, and I can think of a hypothetical that 10 perhaps might show a function for having those markers.
11 I'm not sure that a witness --
12 MR. GALLO: All right".
(
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- sitting on the stand and 14 facing a barrage of questions can think up all those 15 hypotheticals. That's not part of his job.
16 MR. GALLO: Well, the witness has testified 17 that he didn't agree that the footage markers were for
, 18 the purpose of cost accountability but, rathe r --
. I 19 MR. GUILD: He said he didn't know.
20 MR. GALLO: -- rather, that it was, in 21 addition, for traceability matters.
22 I should be permitted to probe for the basis for 23 his opinion.
.. 24 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, if I might, the
(.. 25 witness disclaimed any knowledge of the prof fered basis Seaa*=0 P rertia; 9 raica. Ltd.
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i 12548 I I 1 for the accountability requirement, the footage marking, 2 that Mr. Gal'lo suggested. That was cost accountability.
3 If he wants to establish that through some other
+
4 source by putting on a witness to say so, fine, if it's 5 relevant. I'm not sure it is. v 6 The fact of the matter is the witness has only 7 testified that he applied a procedure that is written 8 for whatever reason it was written.
9 When asked to speculate as to the reason for the 10 requirement, he stated his reason. That's as far as Mr.
11 Gallo is capable of going with this witness.
12 I object on relevance grounds and --
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, I agree with that 14 objection and --
15 MR. GALLO: May I request we excuse the 16 witness?
17 I'll explain where I'm going with it.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. Let's excuse the
~
19 witness.
20 Could you step out again, sir, Mr. Archambeault?
21 (Witness excused.)
22 MR. GALLO: The witness has testified that 23 Tuite indicated that, "We didn't work to the 24 installation procedure," and that he believed it was 25 appropriate for the QC Inspector -- in this case, I I Sonatac Reportiac Ser" ice, Ltd_
Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12549 1
1 himself and Tuite -- to hold the Oc Department -- to 2 hold the craft cred to the installation specification.
l 3 I'm trying to show by my questioning that this 4 particular section of the installation specification has 5 no relationship to quality matters.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Okay. )
7 Mr. Gallo, it occurs to me, as a layman, that there 8 is a function for having those markers.
9 The hypothetical that occurs to me is that there's 10 some damage to cable after it's installed, and the craft i 11 people are told to go up and repair in between certain 12 markers; that we have a duplication of markers here, and 13' they. repair the wrong place or they cut out the wrong 14 cable and splice it.
15 Now, I don't know. That may be farfetched, but the 16 point is --
17 MR. GALLO: I would submit it is.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I'm a layman, Mr. Gallo; and 19 with regard to the area of why the requirement is the 20 way it is, so is the witness. He is not a qualified 21 engineer responsible for writing those specifications.
22 MR. GALLO: If the witness --
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: He is a QC Inspector who is 24 applying those specifications, and he's already given
.. 25 you his opinion that under the requirement as he read Geneva,E151nois 60534' (312) 232-0262
12550 I I 1 it, it was automatic and that is how he applied it.
2 MR' . GALLO: Well, if the witness had said, in 3 answer to my question, that he didn't know with respect 4 to the accountability, okay. -
5 But he went further. He volunteered that it did 6 have a safety significance; that is, it was there for 7 traceability purposes.
8 That's what prompted the further questions. If he 9 had said he didn't know, I'd have stopped.
10 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, the witness is 11 reluctant to say he doesn't know, especially when 12 he's --
13 MR. GALLO: I can't --
14 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- asked a question and it 15 appears to reflect on his competence.
16 The point is now it's outside his area of 17 competence, and I don't think that we ought to force him 18 into a position where he has got to decline answering 19 and feel that it reflects on his competence, when he 20 shouldn't be asked those questions in the first place.
21 MR. GALLO: Well, I just can't agree with 22 that characterization, your Honor.
23 I think that --
24 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, maybe I could
, 25 suggest a way out of it.
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1 MR. GALLO: -- the weight for this witness 2 certainly ex'ceeds any bounds that I recognize with 3 Applicant's witnesses.
4 MR. GUILD: If I may suggest a way out of 5 th is --
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo --
7 MR. GALLO: If the witness' answer about 8 traceability is stricken from the record, then I will 9 cease pursuing that particular line about traceability.
I 10 But if it's permitted to stand, I submit I should 11 be permitted to pursue it.
MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, if I might, Mr.
) 12 13 Gallo simply can't prove what he claims to want to prove 14 from this witness.
15 I suggest maybe a way out that would satisfy him is 16 if 11e simply poses it as a hypothetical, if he says, "If 17 you accept my representation that this is not a safety 18 matter but is only for cost accountability, then does it 19 make a difference?"
20 But you can't prove the affirmative purpose for the 4
21 rule, if it's relevant, through this witness, who 22 disclaims any knowledge.
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Guild, I don't think we 24 have to go any further, because I don't think that the 25 witness is competent to testify on the traceability Scaat=0 Pererti"O Ser" ice. Ltd_
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12552 I I 1 issue.
2 He test'ified that he applied that regulation the l l
3 way he read it, and I think we'll accept Mr. Gallo's )
4 offer and we'll strike his testimony on traceability.
5 But that's a possibility. Let me confer with the ,
6 Board.
7 MR. BERRY: Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman --
8 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Berry?
9 MR. BERRY: As I read the procedure, it says 10 discrepancies which are noted may affect cable 11 accountability, 12 I understand the witness to use those terms, " cable h
13 accountability" and " traceability," synonymously. I 14 don't know that we have a big problem here as far as 15 " traceability."
16 But I would note again that in this respect I think 17 I would agree with Mr. G611d that the witness has 18 testified that he applied the procedure. We have the 19 procedure, we read the procedure, and that was the 20 action that he was taking. .
21 I agree with the Board that he's not an expert, 22 he's not an engineer, and he's not competent to testify 23 to the reasons for these procedures.
24 At this point just exploring it further I really
'- \ >
25 don't think is productive.
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1 MR. GUILD: I would oppose striking the 2 witness' testimony. I think it's perfectly proper what 3 he's said so far. Mr. Gallo has gone as far as he can.
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I conferred with the Board, 5 and they appear to feel the same way. We're not 6 striking any testimony.
7 We know what the limits of the witness' competence 8 are, and whatever has been said we'll take in that 9 context. We're not going to permit any further 10 excursion into areas in which he is not competent.
11 Judge Cole has*a question, Mr. Gallo.
12 JUDGE COLE: Mr. Gallo, I've got a problem in 13 recognizing the significance or importance of your 14 pursuing this matter. I personally don't see the 15 significance of it. l l
16 Could you explain to me what point you're trying to 17 make here by pursuing this particular line?
18 MR. GALLO: I'm attempting to establish that 19 this provision is for use by the craft. I think I've 20 established that.
21 I'm now attempting to establish that really the, 22 section has no significance to quality matters.
23 It's simply a matter within the purview of the
... 24 Construction Department for cost accountability of the 25 cable, and it makes no difference whatsoever whether the Seaata; Reperti".; Ser'? ice, Ltd.
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I I 1 footage markers are on the cable, for purposes of 2 quality conc' erns.
3 JUDGE COLE: And that's all you wanted to 4 establish with this?
5 MR. GALLO: Yes, s
6 JUDGE COLE: That's the significance of it?
7 MR. GALLO: I submit it turns on the language 8 of the procedure itself and the use of the term 9 " accountability."
10 I suggested a definition to the witness on the term 11 .s., " accountability," and he disagreed. He said that -- he 12 seemed to under' stand it, because he disagreed and said l
13 it also means -- to him, at least -- traceability. He 14 was distinguishing it.
15 So Counsel's comment that they were synonymous 16 doesn't appear to me to be consistent with the witness' 17 own testimony.
18 JUDGE COLE: Why don't you ask him the 19 question whether he perceives any difference between
- 20 " accountability" and " traceability"?
21 MR. GALLO: I'd be pleased to ask that 22 question.
23 JUDGE COLE: My colleagues don't think you 24 should ask that question.
25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine.
ennn*=g popnr e ing 9.ru4c., r.*a Geneva, Illinois 60134 (312) 232-0262
12555 1 Mr. Gallo, why don't you -- we'll bring the witness 2 back. We're not going to allow questions outside of the 3 witness ' competence.
4 MR. GALLO: Can I ask --
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: The reasons for the 6 engineering requirements are outside of his competence.
7 He's indicated how he interpreted that section.
8 If you have witnesses you want to put on who will 9 interpret it dif ferently, you're certainly entitled to .
10 put them on in rebuttal.
11 MR. GALLO: Could I ask Judge Cole's
( ) 12 question, which is whether or not he believes 13 " accountability" -- or as he understands it and uses the 14 terms, he is indicating that " accountability" and 15 " traceability" are synonymous terms?
16 MR. BERRY: I have no objection to the 17 question.
18 JUDGE GROSSMAN: All right. You can ask that 19 question.
20 BY MR. GALLO:
21 Q Mr. Archambeault, the Board has indicated that I can ask 22 this one last question in connection with this 23 particular subject:
- 24 I point out to you the word " accountability" that's 25 included in the 3.5.1.1 provision.
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1 (Indica ting. )
2 I ask you: When you used the terms 3 " accountability" and " traceability" in response to my 4 questions, did you take them to mean the same thing?
- 5 A No. .
6 Q I'm sorry?
7 A No.
8 Q All right.
9 What does " accountability" mean to you?
10 A That there should be a tracking system of ,an item.
11 Q Well, I'm sorry. That was a bad question.
12 I mean " accountability" as the term is used in 13 3.5.1.1.
14 A I assume it's what -- the way Commonwealth Edison keeps 15 count of how much cable they've got.
16 Q For what purpose?
b 17 MR. GUILD: Objection; irrelevant.
18 What possible relevance could it have what this 19 witness' understanding is of the purpose of 20 accountability within the scope of his testimony?
21 It has no relevance, and I object.
22 MR. GALLO: I submit it bears on his 23 interpretation that he reflected to the Lead on the 24 craft crew.
. 25 MR. GUILD: Well, his interpretation is not 1
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12557 1 in issue. What's in issue is the actions that were 2 taken in applying a procedure.
3 If Mr. Gallo wants to of fer an expert in 4 interpreting this procedure who has a position contrary 5 to that that's so far been advanced within the scope of 6 this witness' competence, he should do so. We can 7 address the question of the relevance of that testimony 8 at that time.
9 But asking for this witness' further explications 10 on this subject is simply irrelevant.
11 THE WITNESS: May I say something?
i 12 My Level II certification, I believe, which is site 13 criteria, gives a Level II the ability to interpret.
14 Eve rybody interprets things dif ferent. I interpret 15 this as saying that footage marks on the cable should be 16 accurate. It should change eve ry two feet. If it's not 17 that way, then it's wrong. The cable should -- the 18 cable cutting should be suspended and it should be 19 documented for engineering purposes.
20 If they don't want it this way, then they should 21 change the procedure.
22 BY MR. GALLO:
23 Q Accepting that interpretation, did you take the word
,... 24 " accountability" into account at all in your 25 interpretation?
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1 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, I think we've 2 exhausted this topic. Let's move on. I 3 MR. GALLO: I think I'm entitled to an answer 4 to that question.
5 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo, I think anyone ,
6 would be hard pressed to give a definition of a word 7 like " accountability" --
8 MR. GALLO: Well --
9 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- whatever the context,
.10 without having a circular definition which uses 11 " accountability."
12 MR. GALLO: I'm just --
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I don't think --
14 MR. GALLO: I'm just seeking this witness' 15 understanding of the term so that --
16 JUDGE GROSSMAN: I think you've exhausted the 17 witness' explanation of why he did what he did and what 18 his position is with regard to that particular
~
19 provision.
20 I don't think that it's necessary for him to give 21 any further inte rpretation.
22 MR. GALLO: Well, I don't believe --
23 JUDGE GROSSMAN: If you have your witnesses 24 who want to give an interpretation, you are certainly 25 entitled to bring them on. I, I ennns,n o-nn
~
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12559 1 But we've explored and exhausted this topic, so 2 let's move on.
3 MR. GALLO: Well, Judge Grossman, I believe 4 that my cross examinatio~n is being unduly interfered 5 with.
6 I asked the question suggested by Judge Cole. I l 7 got an answer that indicated that the witness believed 8 there were different definitions of those terms.
9 I then asked him for the definition of one of those 10 terms. He gave me a definition. I asked him then with 11 respect to what kind of activity, and then there was an 12 objection.
s.
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Gallo,.Mr. Gallo, you're 1
14 entitled to make your of fer of proof now; and you can 15 tell us, with or without the witness present, what you I
16 intended to prove by your line of questioning. That 1
17 will be in the transcript.
18 If you wish to make your of fer, proceed. If not --
~
19 MR. GALLO: Yes.
i ,
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: -- just move on.
21 MR. GALLO: I think if I would be permitted 22 to continue the inquiry with respect"to this witness' 23 understanding of " accountability" and this witness'
__ 24 unde rstanding of " traceability," it would bear directly l __ 25 on this witness' interpretation that he gave to the Lead 9^==*ec F rartia; 9er=iae. L*d .
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1 and this witness' objection to the advice from Mr. Tuite 2 because it would demonstrate that this witness really 3 didn't understand the provision at issue here.
4 If I would be permitted to ask those questions, I -
5 believe I would be permitted to establish that.
6 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well --
7 THE WITNESS: I'll tell him --
8 MR. GALLO: Now --
9 THE WITNESS: Do you want me to tell you or 10 not?
11 MR. GALLO: Hold it a minute. .
12 JUbGE GROSSMAN: Mr. Archambeault, we've 13 full'y explored that topic.
14 Move on, Mr. Gallo.
15 THE WITNESS: May I ask to be excused until 16 tomorrow, your Honor?
17 JUDGF GROSSMAN: I'm sorry. I didn't hear.
18 JUDGE COLE: He asked to be excused until 19 tomorrow.
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Oh, okay, fine.
21 MR. GALLO: I'm sorry. What did the witness 22 say?
23 JUDGE COLE: He asked to be excused until
- 24 tomorrow, Mr. Gallo.
. 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Fine. We'll want to see you ! I Sonntag Renertin; Se rvice, Ltd _
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1 here at 9:00 o' clock tomorrow morning.
2 THE WITNESS: Okay.
3 .(Witness excused. )
4 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Do we have anything to do 5 further today? Do we have any other witness?
6 MR. GALLO: I understand that Mr. Martin has 7 been scheduled for tomorrow morning.
8 MR. GUILD: Mr. Chairman, I have a 9 housekeeping matter. I have a copy of the exhibit I 10 promised from yesterday, if I can hand that up at this 11 time. This is --
( 12 MR. GALLO: Go ahead.
13 MR. GUILD: This is Intervenors' Exhibit 120.
14 It's a copy of the Sargent & Lundy review of the Cable 15 Separation Conflict Report that's in evidence.
16 (Indicating.)
17 MR. GALLO: Do I understand, Judge Grossman, 18 that Mr. Martin should not be called now for the morning 19 and that he ought to be delayed?
20 JUDGE GROSSMAN: That's right.
21 Do you have an understanding as to how long the 22 further examination of Mr. Archambeault will go?
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-23 MR. GALLO: Well, the witness was asked
, 24 questions in numerous areas. I have touched one area.
j 25 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, then, you ought to Sana *ac narar*ing Service. Ltd_
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i 12562 I I 1 instruct Mr. Martin that he shouldn't come that early.
2 MR. GALLO: I was really asking for the 3 benefit of Mr. Guild.
4 MR. GUILD: If perhaps Mr. Gallo can give us 5 some suggestion of when he anticipates concluding, we 6 can advise Mr. Martin.
7 MR. GALLO: Well, I would have guessed that 8 the questioning on the footage marker issue wouldn't 9 have taken more than 10 minutes, but it took l
10 considerably more than 10 minutes.
11 So I would say a good part of tomorrow, if not all 12 of it.
13 JUDGE GROSSMAN: Well, you have to take into 14 account, though, from the outset that we're not going to 15 allow questions beyond the witness' competence.
16 So if you're figuring a lot of time on that, maybe 17 we can save all that time.
18 MR. G ALLO: Judge Grossman, I really think 19 that's an improper comment.
20 I think I properly inquired about the issue of ,
21 traceability, and it's improper to infer from that area, 22 despite -- I understand that you have a contrary view,
- 23 and I accept that.
24 But I think it's improper to infer from that that I 25 have a general inquiry and will undertake to conduct a l
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12563 1 general inquiry on matters beyond the competence of the 2 witness. I' don't think that's appropriate.
3 JUDGE GROSSMAN: We'll recess until 9:00 4 o' clock tomorrow.
, 5 (WHEREUPON, at the hour of 4:00 P. M., the 6 hearing of the above-entitled matter was 7 continued to the.llth day of September, 8 19 86, a t the hour of 9 : 00 o ' cloc k A. M. )
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CERTIFICATE OF OFFICIAL REPORTER O
This is to certify that the attached proceedings before the UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION in the matter of: ,
i NAME OF PROCEEDING: COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY (BRIADWOOD STATION, UNITS 1 AND 2) l DOCKET NO.: 50-456 OL; 50-457 OL k.
PLACE: CHICAGO, ILLINOIS DATE: - WEDNESDAY, SEPTEMBER 10, 1986 were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission.
(sigt W, (TYP[D)
GLEN L. SONNTAG Official Reporter ACE-FEDERAL REPORTERS, INC.
Reporter's Affiliation
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