ML100570444
| ML100570444 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Palisades  |
| Issue date: | 02/25/2010 |
| From: | Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation |
| To: | |
| Chawla M, NRR/DORL, 415-8371 | |
| References | |
| 2.206, NRC-079, TAC ME3270 | |
| Download: ML100570444 (26) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION Title: 2.206 Petition of Michael Mulligan RE Palisades Nuclear Plant Docket Number: 50-255 Location: (telephone conference)
Date: Tuesday, February 18, 2010 Work Order No.: NRC-079 Pages 1-26 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 + + + + +
3 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 4 + + + + +
5 NUCLEAR REACTOR REGULATION 6 + + + + +
7 PETITION REVIEW BOARD 8 DISCUSSION WITH PETITIONER 9
10 In the Matter of:
11 10 CFR 2.206 PETITION Docket No.
12 OF MICHAEL MULLIGAN 50-255 13 WITH RESPECT TO 14 PALISADES NUCLEAR PLANT 15 16 17 Tuesday, February 18, 2010 18 19 The above-entitled conference convened via 20 teleconference, pursuant to notice, at 3:00 p.m.
21 Eastern Standard Time.
22 BEFORE:
23 TOM BLOUNT, Petition Review Board Chairman 24 Division of Policy and Rulemaking 25 Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation 26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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2 1 ALSO PRESENT:
2 PAULA ANDERSON, Palisades Nuclear Plant 3 MAHESH (MAC) CHAWLA, Petition Manager 4 BARBARA DOTSON, Palisades Licensing 5 JACK GIESSNER, Region III, DRP 6 ALLEN HISER, NRR 7 TANYA MENSAH, PRB Co-ordinator 8 MICHAEL MULLIGAN, Petitioner 9 ED WEINKAM, Palisades Nuclear Plant 10 KENT WOOD, NRR 11 EMMA WONG, NRR 12 MATT YODER, NRR 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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3 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 (3:09 p.m.)
3 MR. CHAWLA: Hi. Good afternoon. I would 4 like to thank everyone for attending this meeting. My 5 name is Mac Chawla. I am the Palisades Nuclear Plant 6 Project Manager.
7 We are here today to allow the petitioner, 8 Mike Mulligan, to address the Petition Review Board 9 regarding the 2.206 petition dated Jan. 28, 2010. I 10 am the Petition Manager for the petition. The 11 Petition Review Board Chairman is Tom Blount.
12 As far as the Petition Review Board's, or 13 PRB's, review of this petition, Mike Mulligan has 14 requested this opportunity to address the PRB. This 15 meeting is scheduled from 3:00 to 4:00 p.m. Eastern.
16 We are starting at 3:10, so from 3:10 to 4:10 Eastern 17 time.
18 The meeting is being recorded by the NRC 19 Operations Center and will be transcribed by a court 20 reporter. The transcript will become a supplement to 21 the petition. The transcript will also be made 22 publicly available.
23 I would like to open this meeting with 24 introductions. As we go around the room, please be 25 sure to clearly state your name, your position, and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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4 1 the office that you work for within the NRC for the 2 record.
3 I will start off. My name is Mac Chawla.
4 I am the Palisades Project Manager. I am the 5 Petition Manager for this petition.
6 MR. WOOD: My name is Kent Wood. I am 7 with the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation.
8 MR. YODER: Matt Yoder, Nuclear Reactor 9 Regulation, Division of Component Integrity, chemical 10 engineer.
11 MS. WONG: Emma Wong, NRR.
12 MR. HISER: Allen Hiser, Division of 13 License Renewal, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation.
14 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: This is Tom Blount. I'm 15 the PRB Chair, Deputy Director, Division of Policy and 16 Rulemaking, NRR.
17 MS. MENSAH: My name is Tanya Mensah. I'm 18 the 2.206 Co-ordinator, Division of Policy and 19 Rulemaking, NRR.
20 MR. CHAWLA: We have completed 21 introductions at the NRC headquarters. At this time, 22 are there NRC parties from the regional office on the 23 phone? Please introduce yourself.
24 MR. GIESSNER: My name is Jack Giessner.
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5 1 office. And that's it for the region.
2 MR. CHAWLA: Are there any representatives 3 for the licensee on the phone? Please introduce 4 yourself.
5 MR. WEINKAM: My name is Edward Weinkam.
6 I'm the Senior Manager, Licensing for the Northeast 7 for Entergy.
8 MS. ANDERSON: My name is Paula Anderson.
9 I am the Licensing Manager at Palisades.
10 MS. DOTSON: Barbara Dotson, Palisades 11 Licensing.
12 MR. CHAWLA: Mr. Mulligan, would you 13 please introduce yourself for the record?
14 MR. MULLIGAN: Hi. I'm Mike Mulligan. I 15 have had a lot of issues with Entergy recently. And I 16 am just a member of the community more or less. And I 17 have experience with whistle-blowing on numerous 18 cases, some pretty heavy amounts of money and time in 19 jail and stuff like that. I also had a reactor 20 license about 20 years ago.
21 Please tell me if you can hear me, if I'm 22 talking all right, and all that sort of stuff.
23 MR. CHAWLA: We can hear you okay. Does 24 the Court Reporter have any questions at this time?
25 THE REPORTER: No. I'm okay. Thank you.
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6 1 MR. CHAWLA: Are there any other members 2 of the public on the phone?
3 (No response.)
4 MR. CHAWLA: Hearing none, I would like to 5 emphasize that we each need to speak clearly and 6 loudly to make sure that the Court Reporter can 7 accurately transcribe this meeting. If you do have 8 something that you would like to say, please first 9 state your name for the record.
10 At this time I will turn it over to the 11 PRB Chairman, Tom Blount.
12 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Good afternoon. This is 13 Tom Blount. Welcome to the meeting regarding the 14 2.206 petition submitted by Mr. Mulligan. I would 15 like to first share some background on our process.
16 The section 2.206, the Title X [Section 17 2.206 of Title 10] of the Code of Federal Regulations 18 describes the petition process, the primary mechanism 19 for the public to request enforcement action by the 20 NRC in a public process.
21 This process permits anyone to petition 22 NRC to take enforcement-type action related to the 23 NRC's [NRC] licensees or licensed activity. Depending 24 upon [on] the results of this evaluation, the NRC 25 could modify, suspend, or revoke an NRC-issued license NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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7 1 or take any other appropriate enforcement action to 2 resolve a problem. The NRC staff [staffs] guidance 3 for the disposition of 2.206 petition requests is a 4 [in] management directive, 8.11, which is publicly 5 available.
6 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 7 the petitioner an opportunity to provide any 8 additional explanation or support for the petition 9 before the Petition Review Board's initial 10 consideration and recommendation.
11 This meeting is not a hearing, nor is it 12 an opportunity for the petitioner to question or 13 examine the PRB on the merits or the issues presented 14 in the petition request. No decisions regarding the 15 merits of this petition will be made at this meeting.
16 Following this meeting, the Petition 17 Review Board will conduct its internal deliberation 18 [deliberations]. The outcome of this internal meeting 19 will be discussed with the petitioner.
20 The Petition Review Board typically 21 consists of a chairman, usually a manager at the 22 Senior Executive Service level at the NRC. It has a 23 petition manager and a PRB co-ordinator. Other 24 members of the Board are determined by the NRC staff 25 based on the content of the information in the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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8 1 petition request.
2 At this time I would like to introduce the 3 Board. I am Tom Blount, the Petition Review Board 4 Chairman. Mac Chawla is the Petition Manager for the 5 petition under discussion today. Tanya Mensah is the 6 office's PRB Co-ordinator [co-ordinator]. Our 7 technical staff includes Kent Wood from the Office of 8 Nuclear Reactor Regulation, Reactor Systems Branch; 9 Emma Wong and Matt Yoder from the Office of Nuclear 10 Reactor Regulation [Regulations], Steam Generator 11 Tube Integrity and Chemical Engineering Branch; Allen 12 Hiser from the Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation, 13 Division of License Renewal; and John Giessner and Bob 14 Lerch from NRC Region III's Division of Reactor 15 Projects.
16 As described in our process, the NRC staff 17 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 18 understand the petitioner's presentation and to reach 19 a reasoned decision whether to accept or reject the 20 petitioner's request for review under the 2.206 21 process.
22 I would like to summarize the scope of the 23 petition under consideration and the NRC's activities 24 to date. On January 28th, 2010, Mr. Mulligan 25 submitted to the NRC a petition under 2.206 regarding NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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9 1 Palisades Nuclear Plant license renewal.
2 In this petition request, Mr. Mulligan 3 identified his concern regarding the 20-year Palisades 4 nuclear relicensing, which was completed on January 5 18th, 2007. He is challenging the NRC activities 6 during relicensing of the plant, specifically 7 regarding the lack of evaluation of the swollen fuel 8 racks problem identification and correction.
9 He also accuses NRC of wrongdoing and 10 states that NRC participated in a coverup through 11 delaying of inspection activities to obfuscate the 12 connection of relicensing and the swelling of the fuel 13 racks. This allegation of NRC wrongdoing has been 14 referred to the Office of the Inspector General and 15 will not be part of the Petition Review Board's 16 activities.
17 Mr. Mulligan requests that the NRC, one, 18 [1] conduct an investigation around swollen fuel racks 19 and relicensing and allow Mr. Mulligan to participate 20 in the investigation; two, [2] if the deception and 21 falsification on Palisades Nuclear Plant is similar to 22 Vermont Yankee, take the following action [actions] :
23 [a] order an immediate shutdown of the Palisades 24 Nuclear Plant, [b] replace the Palisades management 25 team, [c] pull the license of all Entergy nuclear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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10 1 power plants, and [d] NRC and Entergy employees 2 involved in falsification be prosecuted to the full 3 extent of the law.
4 Allow me to discuss the NRC activities to 5 date. On February 4th [1st], 2010, the petitioner 6 requested to address the PRB prior to the initial 7 meeting. And that is why we are here today.
8 As a reminder to the phone participants, 9 please identify yourself if you make any remarks as 10 this will help us in the preparation of the meeting 11 transcript that will be made publicly available.
12 Thank you.
13 Mr. Mulligan, I will turn it over to you 14 to allow you to provide any information you believe 15 the PRB should consider as part of this petition. You 16 will have approximately 30 minutes to address the PRB.
17 MR. MULLIGAN: I generally make the 18 comment at the beginning of these petitions, you know, 19 just one day in the future I hope that the private 20 deliberations of the Petition Board are recorded and 21 are entered or the public has access to, you know, the 22 internal workings of the NRC. I think that would 23 help, actually, the NRC do its job.
24 Actually, today is the first day that I 25 have become concerned or fearful of the ramifications NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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11 1 that are going around with Entergy and Palisades and 2 Vermont Yankee and stuff.
3 It's just, you know, I always though I had 4 a fix on the magnitude of what was going on. And this 5 is the first time that I have a feeling. I don't know 6 how big it is.
7 Most of this stuff is about the integrity 8 of Entergy, the honesty and truthfulness of how they 9 disclose events to the NRC and the surrounding 10 communities.
11 Most of this stuff around Vermont Yankee 12 is about similar things, the ability of Entergy to 13 express the truth. And if they're not fully 14 expressing the truth, then the NRC should come back in 15 and make the truth known and stuff.
16 For years I've had issues with the NRC.
17 They just don't have the ability to change the 18 behavior or have an incidence. A host of plants down 19 the line will have similar incidences, but, really, 20 the NRC doesn't have a big enough hammer to change the 21 behavior of the greater nuclear enterprise, all the 22 plants and stuff like that.
23 For, whatever it is, you throw them into 24 these investigations and report writing, and nobody 25 really cares about that. You know, they just read a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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12 1 report. And they just continue on. And two or three 2 months later on, the same incident happens over and 3 over again and stuff like that. I really worry about 4 that kind of a problem with the NRC and the nuclear 5 industry.
6 It should be noted I have had a lot of 7 difficulties with the new ADAMS public search 8 capabilities. I mean, I can basically get the 9 documents out of here, but, I mean, as far as that, 10 ADAMS and the searching capabilities of me with the 11 documents from the NRC are a long-term problem.
12 If it's not convenient for me or everybody 13 else, especially I have the experience. If it's 14 somebody new coming on and they have to go through 15 this big hurdle of figuring out how to do a search and 16 stuff like that, it inhibits public participation.
17 I mean, as far as licensing nuclear 18 plants, I mean, I really don't understand what the 19 criteria is as far as relicensing these plants. I 20 don't think the public understands. Is the philosophy 21 of relicensing to just assure -- excuse me?
22 Is it just to assure that minimum NRC 23 requirements are met for the next 20 years or is 24 relicensing about preparing the plant to put it in its 25 best possibility of making the next 20 years of plant NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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13 1 operation safe and efficient?
2 You know, the whole thing of relicensing 3 is the black hole spires the antenna [as far as the 4 intent] is for.
5 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Mr. Mulligan, this is 6 Tom Blount. So, to be clear, I want to make sure 7 we're talking about the Palisades relicensing issue.
8 What you're saying, if I understand you correctly, you 9 don't understand the basis for the Palisades 10 relicensing?
11 MR. MULLIGAN: Well, I don't understand 12 the philosophy, the NRC's philosophy, of what are they 13 doing on relicensing.
14 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Okay. So the purpose of 15 this meeting was for you to present some additional 16 information on your petition relative to the Palisades 17 issue. So if you would like to provide us that, that 18 would be very helpful to us.
19 MR. MULLIGAN: Well, usually they just let 20 me say my piece. And, you know, I am pretty 21 experienced with this business. And usually I will 22 beat around the bush long enough where it will become 23 apparent what I am getting at.
24 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: I understand. And I am 25 just trying to help you focus your response to us so NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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14 1 that we get the maximum benefit from what your 2 additional information is. That was my goal.
3 MR. MULLIGAN: You know, this basically --
4 like I said, to me this evolves around relicensing, 5 you know. I mean, let me just continue on.
6 According to what you said and what I have 7 picked up on my own is that relicensing was completed 8 on January 18th, 2007. And most of the below I'm 9 going to repeat off of your inspection report dated 10 December 9th, 2009. And that is 05000255/2009008.
11 According to your inspection report, you 12 discovered on September 7th, 2007, you discovered, a 13 stuck bundle in the fuel pool. It is unclear -- there 14 is reports out there that the NRC says that a document 15 came across their attention. And that's what keyed 16 them on to the -- I don't know. I think it was the 17 second stuck bundle.
18 It's another problem I have with the 19 inspection reports. They're not comprehensive. We 20 don't really know if -- the word I got was that it was 21 an Entergy employee who tapped the shoulder of the NRC 22 inspector and basically said, "Just take a look at why 23 we have stuck bundles." It's not certain how it 24 really came up with the stuck bundle.
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15 1 discovered out of that. I believe there's like seven 2 stuck bundles on -- basically this thing began in 1988 3 with some swelling in the bundles.
4 The first stuck bundle was discovered in 5 1999, November 11th. And in 1994, NUS did an 6 evaluation, an incomplete evaluation. You know, how 7 could that be in 1994 with all the sophistication of 8 the NRC and the NUS and stuff like that? How could 9 they get away with not doing a complete evaluation? I 10 mean, to me it's just inconceivable that they didn't 11 fully characterize that in 1994.
12 So, I mean, that's the gist of my 13 complaint here. I mean, there's not too much new 14 information other than relicensing occurred January 15 18th, 2007. A few months before that, a few months 16 after that, on September 7th, 2007, do you basically 17 -- I mean, the bundle -- I mean, it seems like the NRC 18 discovered it at that date, on September 7th, 2007.
19 We know that Entergy had submitted 20 documents that bundles were stuck and all that sort of 21 stuff. And so how did all of that get by relicensing?
22 You know, if relicensing was accepted on January 8th, 23 2007, how did that all -- how come that wasn't all 24 ventilated and talked about and corrected and 25 everybody, you know, before the -- I mean, it just NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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16 1 looks terrible that during licensing, you know, it 2 would have been discovered, actually, many years 3 before relicensing, but relicensing, in particular.
4 Why wasn't that -- why didn't we like all 5 of the procedures and policies and all of that sort of 6 stuff? Why wasn't that kicked up? Why didn't Entergy 7 kick it up itself as a problem and "Let's figure out 8 what's going on here" and stuff like that and have a 9 pristine plant when -- as far as having everything 10 that was uncertain known, seeing as how this started 11 in -- what did I say it was? -- 1988 and stuff? We 12 know it could have led to a pretty bad accident or it 13 could have --
14 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Mr. Mulligan, this is 15 Tom Blount again. And I apologize for interrupting, 16 but I would like to get back to what the purpose of 17 the meeting is.
18 As I have pointed out at the beginning of 19 this -- and I'll reiterate it to refresh everyone --
20 MR. MULLIGAN: You're going to ask me for 21 information. And you know you've got a barrier. I 22 have no ability to get information.
23 So you're going to say, "Michael, you've 24 got to be focused." Focused on what, what kind of 25 information you guys give me over your system and NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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17 1 stuff like that?
2 I mean, I have no -- and you know it. I 3 have no capability to enforce Entergy telling me 4 truthfulness or whether the NRC is telling me 5 truthfulness. I have no abilities to some independent 6 guy above the NRC saying, "Okay. This is the kind of 7 information you need to give Mike Mulligan to give him 8 a fair shot at explaining what the problem is."
9 That's what I'm -- that's the problem. If 10 you're going to ask me, "Well, you've go to stay 11 focused," the only reason why I'm not focused is 12 because the NRC hasn't given me any information.
13 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Mr. Mulligan, we're 14 having this dialogue at your request because --
15 MR. MULLIGAN: I've had this dialogue many 16 times with many different -- I've had many 2.206s and 17 stuff like -- probably the most experienced guy in the 18 United States with 2.206s. So, you know --
19 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Okay. So would you like 20 to help us with the information that you want to --
21 MR. MULLIGAN: I would love to.
22 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: -- share with us?
23 MR. MULLIGAN: I would love to.
24 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Okay.
25 MR. MULLIGAN: What do you think you need?
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18 1 I mean, help me with the -- what do you -- tell me 2 what you were trying to tell me before, then.
3 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: What I am trying to ask 4 for or elicit from you is whatever additional 5 information that you have regarding this petition that 6 you feel is relevant for us as a PRB to take into 7 consideration in our deliberations. So whatever 8 additional new information that you may have 9 available, please share it with us.
10 MR. MULLIGAN: New information. Well, 11 you're not going to like this, but, like I said, you 12 know, issues with, troubles with the credibility of 13 Entergy. You know, you have the -- Nexus has been 14 delayed because of incomplete testimony. Indian Point 15 relicensing has been delayed because of all this stuff 16 revolving around about Entergy's credibility. The 17 Pilgrim plant, the Massachusetts governor requested 18 withholding the relicensing of that plant.
19 You know, there's Vermont Yankee. I could 20 talk about that for days, Vermont Yankee with the 21 false testimony of senior Entergy executives and all 22 this stuff that's spinning through the media up here 23 and stuff.
24 Oyster Creek. I mean, Oyster Creek.
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19 1 type of thing. You know, they go through relicensing.
2 And magically Vermont Yankee is the same way. They 3 go through this relicensing process, spend millions of 4 dollars, tens of millions of dollars.
5 The NRC spends an equivalent amount of 6 money and time. And then they get the relicense.
7 And, bang, Oyster Creek starts leaking. Just before 8 relicensing, all the documents are submitted. With 9 Vermont Yankee, the same thing.
10 And so, you know, we send that to 11 Palisades. This thing was discovered. Six months 12 after relicensing of Palisades, it looks to me as 13 though there is issues that the relicensing of 14 Palisades didn't work.
15 If there was -- like I said, if there was 16 -- if there is issues that it was incomplete, I mean, 17 I am open to different corrective actions. But, you 18 know, if it's falsification or if it leads to that, 19 one way or another, I think there should be serious 20 punishment for people and organizations doing that 21 type of thing.
22 Another situation recently with Entergy 23 over in Pilgrim is with the licensed operators.
24 They've been telling -- they've been signing off that 25 the medical records were full and complete. And for a NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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20 1 number of years, they found out that the medical 2 doctor in Entergy was giving out incomplete 3 information.
4 So, I mean, it's a pattern of this. I 5 mean, really, it's a pattern. I mean, I'm not a good 6 speaker, but there's a pattern of the NRC and Entergy 7 of poor communications, incomplete communications, 8 selective communications, falsification, test 9 delaying, and all sorts of stuff.
10 I mean, this is -- you know, if you start 11 looking around at Entergy through a number of these 12 plants and stuff like that, you get the feeling that 13 there is something going on systemically with Entergy.
14 And, you know, you really -- I think you 15 really need to figure out how to correct this pretty 16 fast. We've got employees now at Vermont Yankee, you 17 know, coming forward with complaints off system.
18 There is another indication that nothing works, that 19 employees can't go to the NRC with complaints and feel 20 that their concerns will be taken seriously and that 21 if they make an effort, it will be corrected. You 22 just talk to them, and it goes in one ear and out the 23 other.
24 Like I said, I don't have a lot of 25 information because I can't compel testimony, but it NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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21 1 looks awful that that fuel -- the nuclear fuel racks 2 popped up after, just after, relicensing, six months 3 after relicensing. That just -- it is just 4 ridiculous. It's totally unprofessional on the NRC's 5 fault and on Entergy's fault -- on Entergy's part, 6 side of the thing.
7 So, I mean, I have tried to say it as best 8 I can with as little information that Entergy and the 9 NRC gives me. See, okay. There's no such thing as 10 participation if I can't compel testimony, if I can't 11 figure out a way that people say, "All right. Here.
12 You know, let's make this 2.206 petition honest. And 13 let's give him all the information" and stuff like 14 that and let him go see if he can falsify."
15 You know, that is part of science. You 16 know, all I've been doing is science, trying to 17 falsify what everybody has been saying, you know, that 18 that is an honored position in science to try and 19 falsify. If you guys are saying something incomplete 20 or inaccurate or not in the right way or not 21 communicating it in the right way if I can show that 22 that is happening, then that is a way for the system 23 to help correct itself.
24 I mean, everybody thinks I am 25 anti-nuclear, but I am probably the most pro-nuclear NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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22 1 guy in the United States as far as trying to fix the 2 system.
3 But did you get the gist of my problem 4 here with Palisades and the fuel pool?
5 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Mr. Mulligan, this is 6 Tom Blount. I believe I've heard your presentation.
7 I understand what you are relaying to us. We will 8 take that into consideration in our deliberations, 9 what you have provided to us.
10 Is that the summation of your 11 presentation?
12 MR. MULLIGAN: Yes, it is.
13 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Thank you, sir. So at 14 this time, I would ask the staff here at headquarters, 15 does anyone here at headquarters have any questions 16 for Mr. Mulligan?
17 MR. WOOD: This is Kent Wood from Office 18 of Nuclear Reactor Regulation. I have a question for 19 Mr. Mulligan. Mr. Mulligan, do you have a copy of 20 this report from 1994 that you referenced?
21 MR. MULLIGAN: Nineteen ninety-four.
22 That's -- do I have -- no, I don't.
23 MR. WOOD: Okay.
24 MR. MULLIGAN: That was -- I picked that 25 up out of the -- your inspection report at December NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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23 1 9th, 2009. You know, they just made a sentence or two 2 comment about the 1994 NUS evaluation. So, you know, 3 I really didn't see it.
4 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Okay. And that was 5 really what the question was, was if you had a copy 6 that you cared to share with us as part of the support 7 for your petition.
8 MR. MULLIGAN: Well, I've got a good 9 question for you. How would I get the copy of that?
10 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: You referred to it. So 11 we were simply looking for it as part of your 12 submittal.
13 MR. MULLIGAN: So you need -- I mean, you 14 essentially need that to make a determination on --
15 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: I would not characterize 16 it in that manner. You referred to this report as 17 part of the basis for your concern. What our interest 18 was, was do you have a copy of that that you cared to 19 share with us as supplemental information for your 20 petition? That was what -- it was a simple question 21 in that regard.
22 MR. MULLIGAN: Well, I don't mean to be 23 rude.
24 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: No. I understand.
25 MR. MULLIGAN: But, you know, it's NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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24 1 Catch-22 if you read that book, "Catch-22," and all 2 the associated catches in it. So you're asking me --
3 you ask me, I'm supposed to have that NUS -- and if I 4 would have had access to it, I would have had had it.
5 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Okay.
6 MR. MULLIGAN: But if you're asking me if 7 I have -- if I could -- if I have to present it to 8 you, but I have no way of presenting it and stuff.
9 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: We were simply 10 interested in whether or not you had it and if you 11 did, we can consider it or look for other sources if 12 need be if we find that as part of our deliberations, 13 that that is a determining issue.
14 I'm not suggesting that we are or we 15 aren't. I am simply saying that had you had it and 16 used it as part of your supplemental information, then 17 that's what we were looking for.
18 That's what this conversation was expected 19 to be about, you providing us additional information 20 regarding your petition.
21 With that, I'll move on any other 22 questions here from the staff at headquarters?
23 (No response.)
24 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: No other questions. Any 25 questions from the region?
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25 1 MR. GIESSNER: No questions.
2 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Thank you.
3 MR. MULLIGAN: But, you know, that would 4 be the shortcoming of the 2.206 process as far as, you 5 know, I won't be able to see that NUS report, NUS, or 6 N-U-S report, and stuff like that, you know. I won't 7 be able to participate in this because I won't be able 8 to see it.
9 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: I understand your point.
10 Thank you very much.
11 Let's see. Are there any members of the 12 public participating? I believe that we don't have 13 any.
14 (No response.)
15 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Did the licensee need 16 any clarifying information from Mr. Mulligan?
17 MR. WEINKAM: No, Mr. Blount, we don't.
18 We're fine.
19 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: Thank you.
20 Before I conclude the meeting, let's see.
21 MR. MULLIGAN: Thank you for this 22 opportunity, by the way.
23 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: You are certainly 24 welcome. And we appreciate your participation in this 25 meeting.
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26 1 As stated at the opening, the purpose of 2 this meeting is not to provide an opportunity for the 3 petitioner or the public to question or examine the 4 PRB regarding the merits of the petition request. Mr.
5 Mulligan, we would like to thank you for taking time 6 to provide the NRC with your clarifying information on 7 the petition.
8 Before we close, does the Court Reporter 9 need any additional information for the meeting 10 transcript?
11 THE REPORTER: This is the Court Reporter.
12 I could just ask them afterwards if that's okay.
13 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: That would be fine.
14 You'll get a hold of our Project Manager on this or, 15 in particular, what is it that you need, sir?
16 THE REPORTER: It's just spellings. So I 17 can do that. That would be fine. Thank you, sir.
18 MR. CHAWLA: You can contact me, and I can 19 help you out with that. This is Mac Chawla here.
20 THE REPORTER: Okay. Yes, sir.
21 CHAIRMAN BLOUNT: With that, then, the 22 meeting is concluded. And we will be terminating the 23 phone connection. Thank you very much.
24 MR. MULLIGAN: Thank you.
25 (Whereupon, the foregoing matter was NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
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27 1 concluded at 3:45 p.m.)
2 3
4 5
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