ML19323E506

Deposition Re Water Leaking,Patches & Honeycombs.Pp 2-22

ML19323E506
Person / Time
Site:	Marble Hill
Issue date:	05/08/1979
From:	Cutshall C AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED
To:
Shared Package
ML19323E491	List: ML19323E490 ML19323E493 ML19323E498 ML19323E502 ML19323E506 ML19323E513 ML19323E517
References
NUDOCS 8005230617
Download: ML19323E506 (24)

Text

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i O! tai:T.FE EDUAim CIITsi!AT.T.

01%en'ach3N IRP 'I

~ g DATE: May 8, 1979 PLACE: Law office of Tho:::aa M. Dattilo, ?> riison, Tndiano.

TIITE: 4: 30 P.M.

PRl:UE'iT: Thom:m M. Un i.til o , At.i.orney for Onyn The Ynlle;i.

Mr. Rohn-t Grav, Chiti rc.an of Bened of D.irectars, Savo The Vn11ey.

Mr. Paul Ri chnrd I!ill , accompanyi ng Charl o: M.1 w:n'<1 Cutnho.11 Mr. Charl an Fdwsr<1 Cn hth:.il.1, the witriern.

Mrr., Pntri ei a 3. Tori ieo , the reporter.

The wi uner::;, Chnr1 en '/<!.i ,: <1 Cu h::Imll , h: v i nc b:r n <1uly nworn b;/ +.he roport.m t:0 1:011 th ': truth, the wiiol . t: c. 21.h :, n<1 not:hi :c but the trut.h, gavo l.L r- ollow i nc: - 1. : 1.n w n t: , t.e-wit.:

PATRICIA S. TORLINE SHORTHAND REPORTER RT. 6, BOX 2A MADISON, INDIANA 47250 Su05g30b(

1 2 2 QUFSTTOUS BY IG. ROBERT GRAY:

3 liii. caf.Y: This ic Bob Grny, nrd we're <0ing 3 to talk briefl:/

4 to Charlon Cutuball ; and we underntand he's em-.

5 ployed at the Marble 11111 construction . ito.

6 Q. Ilight I ack your full name, Mr. Cutshall; what you 7 do for a living; your marital stat;un, and your ago, 8 plcuco?

9 -

A. My name in Charles Edward Cutchall; I am a laborer 10 for Newberg Conctructibn Company; my age in 2?.

11 Are you married, sir?

Q.

12 A. I am single.

13 Q. Could you tell uu briefly what you do at the New-14 ' erg h construction nito at Marble Hill; juct tell 15 us briefly what you do there and how long you've 16 been employed wi.th them?

17 - A. I am a concrete finishcr'u helpor, a laborer. I 18 hc3p concrote fininhorn by huulinC their noconnary 19 materi.al:; to them and building their acn froldn and 20 justg:ncral hand;/ man for them.

21 How long hnvr you been employed in thi.n lionition?

Q.

22 A. Two (2) monthc.

23 Q. Where woro you employed before thin?

i 24 A. T wan employed by Wackontiut Gncuri ty for I'.O.T .

25 Q. On the Marble lii.11 ni',o? l 26 li . On the Marble Hil1 conntruction nite.

27 q. And how long had you hcon employed i n that capacity, 28 then, Mr. Cutchall?

4

~

1 3 2 .A. I was employed from June - I mean January of '79 un-3 til my employment as a laborer.

4 Okay. In pre-conversation you indicated that you Q.

i 5 were goin$ to leave this type of employment as a 6 cement finisher and go somewhere else?

7 A. Yes sir. I'm Going to stay on as a laborer, not for 8 the Newberg Company. I nu moving to Texas.

9 Q. Can you tell us, Mr. Cutshall, then essentially, 10 why you're here? Just make it informal and tell us 11 what you know about cement, and just take off and 12 do your own thing ac you youngsters say.

13 A. Okay. T live in the area of the Marb]c Hill con-14 struction site. I live -

15 Q. (Interrupting) Can you be s'pecific where?

16 A, .Approximately .5 miles southeast of Acstin, Indiana.

17 Q. Okay, go ahead. That would be in Scott County?

18 A. Scott County.

19 Q. Go ahead.

20 -

g, 7.ve been around concrete work all my li.fe; my 21 father's been a f'ini.nhor for cloce to W yearu.

22 I'm fnmiliar with concrete work.

23 Q. Unvc you worke<1 prev i ously wit.li your that , i.n con-24

• crcte?

25 A. Yes sir.

26 Q. What time framos; like how long?

27

A. Just small pours - pation and aidewa3ks.and things, 28 for instance. ,

't 1

E 2 q. Go ahead, please.

i 3 - A. I'm concerned about thn cut t:J tionc of the concrete d and thi.ngs I have ' enn on the Marble Hill. conctructicn 5 nito, pertai.ning t,a honeyconh patchen.

6 Q. Please explain nach now. Ifoneycoah .is what in 7 cement?

8 ~ A. Honeycomb patches are nir pockets that fern long 9 ' 'formc, when the concrete forma, that leave air pock-10 eto in the concrete whnro you can - the material'c 11 real loose and just falle out.

12 You mean more narrow perhapc; lose concretc in thick-Q.

13 ncsc, or what happens with a honeyco;nb?

14 'A. If a form is, say for inctance, four (II) fnct thich-a 4 15 or the concrete would bc/four (4) feet thick wall 16 and han a honeycomh on the c.ido, it might Go in un 17 much ac two (2) or three (3) fact into it and havn 18 the air pocket to where the concrete is loona. You ,

19 can just boat it out w:i.th a hammer, and in nouc l 20 cr u :o c 1 1.' 1 1 rn11 vol on i t . own -- j u s t b"e.l.;ng iL 21 with your hnnd.

22 Thuc lonving it noch more narrou Lhan t h e .:p e c i. f i -

Q.

23 cationn <ioold en11 for? l l

i 24 A, ygg gir, i 1

1 25 '

Q.. Okny, nml you've c en thi:i nL Marble IIill?

26 A. Yec sir. It i n one o f my jobu . to patch the: e --

27 to. cupply nu t,orinlu or the finichers Lu patch..the o 28 areas.

l 4  % t- . v . , - - ,

1 5 2 Q. Okay, what structures have.you been working on down a therc?

4 A. Steam tunnels, just... (pauscc) 5 Q. Contaimocnt building? Have you ever heen on the 6 conta i.ncont?

7 A. Contai.nment side of the containment -- inside of the 8 containment.

9 Q. The containment room itself?

10 A. Yes sir.

11 Both insido und outside?

Q.

12 A. Yen sir.

" 13 - Q. And you've noen honeycoahn in the conta.inment struct-14 ure, itcol f?

15 - A. Yes sir.

16 Q. As I understand then, it'c part of your job to go 17 nround and patch theEC honeycomba as they occur?

18 A. It ic my job to appply the nnterials for the finich-19 cra to pntch.

2o Q. To ..o t.hin?

21 A. Yec nir.

22 q. I con. Okny, what wau the nn:<t item, hoc i.<1e honey--

23 comhn, tha t: you tn1 Ped nhout?

24 - A. In one'nteam tunnel, along the -- where the wall 25 meetn the floor on the perpendienlar cornern, I'vn 26 ucen water 1cnkirt through thoce arnac at e pretty 27 fact. roto. I't! Ony approximately crywhere fron 28 five (5) to twenty (20) gallon nn hour; and water A

1 . .

6

• 2 comec from the lower levels and outside levels, out-3 cide of the walls, juut whero the water'c backed up, 4 and placou T don't even know.

5 Q. Explai.n the stenm tunnel ; what do you know uhout 6 that?

7 A. Well, all T know on the nteam tunnel is that thut's 8 where the excean steam., and the steam after it's 9 run through the turbi.nes, follows these steam tunnel:

10 to where they're released thrcuch the cooling bins.

11 Q. Okay, what -- have you observed why thic ic so?

12 Why is it leaking through from ground water, or whr t--

13 over?

14 A. The -- juct poor concrete work, just poor forms.

15 Q. Liko poor forming that causes the scam not to be 16 sealed, or what? What exactly?

17 A. Just where the air pot'.kote will run all. the wny 18 through to whare the water will be on these anoma, 19 in corners.

20 Q. Von 1tl 1:h i r hovo 17. <l r i with I.he honnycomb :itun!.iun 21 thnt; you tniknd nhont?

22 A. Ye; ni r , raore 1,h a n -- it'c n.j iden 1:hn !, th e re ' n ,

23 honeyconhn on in the wall to wh:re the wat.or enn run 24 on through. 'I'here 's -- the wa ter han to he flowinc )

25 from nomoplace to be cominc out of there, and I'm  !

26 not cure where it'; coming from; but it it; ccming 27 through.

28 What other cement defectn, bccides boneycombinc, du Q.

i  ?

2 you know about; and have you seen it at Marble Hill?

3 A. On patchen, I have seen five (5) caans within the 4 laut two (2) weeks where the supervi.nion -- Newberc't 5 supervision, their supervisor or cuperintendent, and 6 other P.S.I. officialc will. say patch them before 7 the inspectorn can come by.On pr.ttches that should a have been air-hartraared out and -

9 Q. (Interrupting) Doec thic go hack to the honeycomb 10 situ' tion you talked about?

11 A. Yoc sir.

12 Q. Okay, you're talking now about a patching situation?

13 A. Yes nir. Well, you have to patch the honeycombs.

14 Q. And this then wan ' patch it b<'rcro the NRC peoplo 15 could cce it', did you say?

16 A. Yec cir, on numerous countn. URC is not there all 17 the tifr.e and thoy cannot kccp up with what's going 18 on.

19 Q. In it suppocod to be the proceduro thnt thn URC neo 20 all hone;/comhn thn P n ppen r, or whn L

the 21 -

A. No cir; it ' n /procerlure for Quality Control, or Q.A.,

22 innpoctorn to cec.

23 Q. That'n Newborg innpectorn?

24 A. Nowherg inapnctorn, to pntch theco -- to cre thene 25 areau, and they put n tag on it; and tha t ' n wh er" T l l

26 Wau explaining to you, earlier. l 27 Q. What kind of tag; what does .it 1cok like?

28 A. Non -- not serviceable, poor material tagc wherc v

1 8 2 they have to -- after they put a ta6 on a honeycomb 3 that hasn't been beat out, or air-hamm.cred out, they have to air-hammer it out; and then the inspector 4

5 han to como nnd look at it before they patch it, to 6 make sure it's donc right. And on tho occasions I 7 _

was talking about, the supervicorn will have them

< 8 cover up just the outside and not worry about the 9 inside of the patches. Before the incpectors can to get around, they'll have them just more or less mack 11 . over, cover up, the areas before the inspector can 12 see it.

13 Q. So that somebody could understand, would it be fair 14 t'o equate thin with like plastering over an area

^

is rather than fillinC it up completely?

16 A. Yes sir, that would be a good way to put i t. l 1

17 Q. Thus leaving --

18 A. Arcac in-betwenn.

19 Q. -- an nir bubble?

20 A. Right. ,

21 Q. Inside the -- n1though it would look nolid?

22 A. Ri Cht. It'll jo:;l, havo an inch or no outer covering.

23 where they've clapped n pal;ch on thi ; honeycomb, .

l 24 and just made it look good from 1.he outnide. You -

, 25 can't toll the di.frerence unti.1 you got in there 26 nnd ntart heati.ng it out.

27 -Q. You cnid two or throc timen nbout beating i t out; 28 how do you do that?

I 9 2 A. With an air hammer, that'c what I meant; pneumatic 3 air hammers. They're juct jack hammern 13 what they 4 arc, with chisel bits.

5 Q. You mentioned comething about the reinforcement and 6 the fact that the concrete sometimoc docun't chake 7 down through. Would you explai.n that situation?

8 A. Well, the reinforcement rod is placed cloco together 9 _

in areas, to where the concrete cannot get in-between 10 the rainforcement rod and the Cormc, to where it 11 docan't fill in the forma completely and leaves patch 12 holes in it and hone; comb holca. It's not vibrated 13 down right and i.t's poor concrete.

14 Q. Poor concrete?

15 A. That's what it would have to be. It'd be too rocky 16 in placen.

17 Q. In other words, the mix is wrong or comething?

18 - A. Right. When they : start pouring the concreto, they'l' 19 have a real high rock contont in it, right nt the 20 hacinninC, and thnn it'll come out t.o the ri;r,ht 21 mixture n Pter the hngirmind; hot they'll pour thic 22 on in the beginning of the forms to :: tart out with.

23 Q. Who ' :: reponnibic for necing thnt thi:, in not donn --

24 or to ecc that it'e donc properly; and evidently

25 it's not then. Who'c responnible?

26 A. I would say the concrete Superintendent, the fininh-27 cr cuperintendent, 9".d the concrete pouring crcMc 28 forc=anc and superintendent.

1 10 2 Are they supposed to be there when all concrete in Q.

3 poured?

)

4 A. They are; they're in pouring the concrete, co they' r<

5 there. Poe , you -- when they pout- coacrete, you 6 have pneunu t,ic vibrat. orc, electric vibratorn, that 7 vibrate the concrche on down into these, or into 8 the honeycomb -- I mean into the rebarb; and that'c 9 the reason for the vibrations, co you won't have 10 honeycomb. But they're not doing it correctly, or 11 the rebarb's too close to permit the cuncrotc to 12 fill i'n these areas.

13 Q. Please explain that?

14 A. - Steel robarb is junt reinforce::" nt nteel th tt's in 15 concrete, so it can hold a heavier stress and --

16 well that would junt be the main problem for thca --

17 I heavier Gtrecn.

la Q. Havo you known rmy occasionc when the chukedown '

l 19 mechanium wacu't working a t nll?

20 -

A. T cannot honently nny thn'. T ' ve n e v. r n o e n I:h o:ti not l 21 vibrate concreto; t.hny've n]wnyn vibrn t,.:d them, but 22 they're not doing i t right.

23 q, 14011, not doi nt i t ri ght: .in Inirly Genern]. Cnn you 24 be more upccjfic? Lik<i do you know why it'c not 25 working properly?

26 A. They' re not l ettinc f,he concrete vibrate down into j a

27 the holco into the placec whero the honeycomb de-28 velopcc, and that'c what caucca the honeycomb.

e m-

9 i.

. 11 2 They're... (pauses)

].

]

3

• Q. A datter of tino?

4 A. Yes, they'ro puching it and they're trying to mako 4

5 it as fact au peculbl.n.

6 Q. In cther wordo, if they'd lot i t vibrate longer it l 7 wouldn't develop honeycombs?  !

8 A. In my opinion, ync sir.

9 Okay. You mentioned the pchcibi.lity that an NRC Q.

10 incpector had seen thic crack cit,antion at onc of 11 the tunnels?

1 12 -

A. I wan in a chen tunnel working with fininhers that 13 were pntching a Otenc tunnel, and an NRC incpector 14 came to the area. Now, I cannot nay that he didn't 15 write something down, but he, in my opinion, never 4

l J 16 took noti.cc of the .c.ituation - of the cracks in the j .

17 nenmc or the wa ter coming through.

18 q. How often donc nn liRC inspector come to inspect the i 19 coment cituution?

20 A. T've neen, i n ray pari tal r,f working 1.here cl im. t to 21 two (2) monthn,.T've :ncre h in T 'd .:ny three (3) 22 timen.

23 Q. Thren (3) tira :n?

24 A. Yen cir.

25 Q. Ilow much coment woubt bnvo h"c e , pou re<1 th< n i n t h i. .

26 period, in your [;udgannI.; couhl you tell?

27 A. Hundredn and thounnnde of' ynrdr. o f concretc.

28 Ic it a fair statonent then to cny thn.t the quality, Q.

7 s -, - , ,, -- ,n. + - . . -

I 12 2 the Q.A. ne you referred to, hnc to be done by New-3 berg, and the NRO really han no crfective way. Is 4 that fair to nay?

5 A. That would be fair, beconne N W cannot be on the 6 Site, or they're not on the nitc; I GucHe they could 7 . .bc on the site all the time, but they're not en the 8 site all the timo; and'when they are there my super-i 9 -- visors, and the people I wo rk with, have noti.cc be-10 fore they cnn even como on the c3tc. It ' .; ay ex-II' pcrience, beenuse T worked an a cuard on the nacurit-f ,

12 for P.S.I. , that they're not allowil en the site 13 without a P.S.T. escort.

14 Q. Not allownd?

15 A. No sir, they will not lot them co an into the cito 16 withotit briving n P.R.T. encert; nnr1 thi c was what 17 I was instructed to do if - when T was working as 18 o cuard, and I'd be on the Cate and nn NBC mpn i

19 came in, I was to hold him there until P.3.T. wac 20 noticied and cono to n::no rt bi n.

21 In other wordn, i.f T cons- -- if you wove o cua rd Q.

22 thoro and I enw' there nwl identirird u,ynelr na on 23 NUC i nnpec t.o r, T n<vil <1 n ' t e n l.o r the p ecu i::nn .:rit;il 24 n P.P,.T. pcenon crur.e to c:: cort me' 25 A. Yan nir; unic :r it.'u chnngtd ir tec laut two weekn, 26 that'c the way ;it wnc.

27 q. I n00. Do you know any of the Mowborc in:.pcchorn, 28 personally?

i I 13 2 A. Not personally; I know them by cight.

3 Q. And these -- in thin their only job, to inupcct 4 c e m e n t: , or do they have juut general innpectors?

5 What is a Nowherg inspector?

6 A. A NewberG inspector, the on1.y ono I'm escociated ,

7 with is the concrete inspectors, and T think their 8 only job is to incpect concro+;n. T think, and I'm 9 pretty cure, they haire other inspectors for their i 10 carpentry work and iron works and this sort of thine-11 Q. You told us something then -

bout the apparnnt.do-12 fccts that are indeed in the structuren ri.cht now; 13 you know that they' re there, in that right?

14 A. Yen cir.

15 ,Q. Back to the particular structures, you say the in-16 side and the outnido of the contninnent. room, itacif.

17 is affected; that you know that these things are 18 covered up thero?

19 A. Yes cir.

20 Q. The contn inmr nt roem, i.tnni r?

21 A. The con tninment wn11 n n i r, wl.e n T i c::1. nt.n eted , unn 22 __ one or my ri.pn:. John wnn to help pal.ch thene 23 hol,,n on thn nja,. cont.ninment, innido nnt! 9:.h irle.

24 They, majority-wico,'they patch mcat of the holec 25 according to qualifica t.i onc , <>r according to the 26 way it's nitpposed to he; but they have 30 many dc-27 fects and holes that need to.h<> patched that they 28 can't cet them a.ll; and that's the reanon, one reacco, 4

- n.. y -e

i 14 2 they're pushing 1.he job so hard to try and get it 3 done - that they' re patching over theno defects be-4 fore the inspectors can see them.

5 O. And thin :i.s dann purpouo3y then, as you have pointed 6 out?

7 A. Yes sir, it's the only way it could be. The super-8 visors say ' patch it ovar'.

9 Q. And they say that in so many worda - a NewberG

-10 supervior says that?

11 _. A. I've heard statements where, from the cupervior 12 personnel, to say fi]l in certnin holes or honeycomb 13 in the side of a wall before the inspector can sco 14 it. I, my.self, have helped with this by hauling 15 the mater.ini and drypack to these holes and patchen.

16 We'VO anked you about the containment room, itnolf, Q.

17 and you also have talked about a steam tunnel; any 1

18 other structures involved in this horicycoching and 19 the cover-over, that you know of?

20 A. Your turbino room wnll.::, your floorn; there' c n31 1 21 kindn oI walln, conn ote wallu and flooru thnt, neo, 22 uro necoccary, bonidon just the containment. You 23 have placon where your hen t. pump:. or nome generni;orn 24 arc going to be, a wl junt pipnworkn and duct.worku 25 and thingn like thiu I; hat the patchen aren' t ri ght, 26 too.

27 Q. Tn other wordn, the como nituntion in the thinC3 28 you've just mentioned then; thone kind of roocc?

l 1 19 2 A. I would say the majority is on other, the turbine 3 roots and thiDCu, instead of the containment. It 4 is on the containment, too, but it see:rc there wuc 5 more on the other are:au.

6 Q. Can you tell un , It". Outshall , about porosity of 7 coment. We're n.il wu]] awarn of th(-: Three dilo 8 Island situation rmd porocity comant, where radiatior 9 apparently can get through three and a half (5%) to 10 four (4) foot of concreto. Is there any npecifi-11 cations you're aware of au to porosity of coment 12 being poured at Marb3 c IIil.1 on various stnicturec; 13 or do you know anything about that?

14 A. I'm not real fami)iar with the term porosity; T've i

15 heard it mentioned by the URC inspector. The in-16 formation I have in through an NBC inspector, where 17 p he was telling no. that radiation will Icak through 18 scamn and honeycobb patches at a lot larger rate 4

19 than if it was nolid concrete and donc ri ht. C 20 Q. But you're not f:imil iar with concrete poroni ty on 21 nuch?

22 A. I can't honently nay I am.

23 Q. Do you know who'n furninhing thi:: concrete?

24 A. Newberg Construction Company. They have their own 25 batch plant and they mix their own concrete.

26 Q. Their own batch plant right on - ?

l i 27 A. Right on the nito.

28 Q. In other wordu, this is not a cublet proposition?

I 16 2 A. No sir, they mix their own concrete.

3 Q. They're totally responsible, I see. So whatever mix 4 they make, it's their responsibility all the way?

5 A. Yes cir. There's a testing, U.S. Testing Corporatior ,

6 is the one that's rosponsible for test;ing the con-7 crete for the proper slump and the proper nixturec --

8 slump is a water cont.ent, comehow to do with the 9 concrete, and the right ratios of cement.and cand 10 and rock mixed together.

11 And this is United States Tenting Company, did you Q.

12 say?

13 A. Yea sir, U.S. Testing.

14 Well, how are they involved? Do they just -

Q.

15 A. (Interrupting) That is their only job is to test 16 the metal born and tont concreto and test heating 17 points of different materials and Go on.

18 Q. ' What*'s their relationship'as incpectora or tectorc?

19 A. They're a cub-contractor to P.O.T., for Newberg.

20 Q. They' re not the i n::pectorn tha t; you ' ve talked about:

21 here?

22 A. No cir; l;hin i n dif ferent.

23 Q. What, ornctly, do they do? I menn, do t,hry not, do 24 it at tho -- where it's poured -- or what?

25 A. Yenh , they -- the U.". Ten tinc; right nt the pou r, 26 right out of the concrote truckn, they take camplon 27 of concrete to tect,; ri Cht on the pours, before the 28 --they take just, you know, sampics out of the

4 1 1'/

2 concrete trucks as it's going to a pour.

3 Q. And they would know, then, whether it was accurate 4 and to specifications by these samples?

5 A. Yes cir.

6 Q. Do you have any reacon to question thoir work?

7 A. No gir, becauGC T'm not asnocial;Pd with th0D; all 1 8 know is I see them out there takinc sampics all the 9 time.

10 Q. Are you aware of any of the trai.nin6 necessary, for 11 either United fitates Tecting people or the Newberg 12 incpectors? 'dhat do they have 1,o do to be what they 13 are?

14 A. When I wnc looking ro'c n job thi c winter, and I was 15 hired on at the Uackenhut --- for Uackenhut Security, 16 that'n the necurity corporntion that takes crn e of 17 P.S.I. and job site occurity -- T acquired an oppli-18 cation fron.U.S. Tonting for work for them too, at 19 the anmc time; T una trying, yon Paw, trying to 20 fill in two chancon nt one tirne . li nd I. hey told me 21 T could have col. hired , you know, would hnvc horm 22 hired if I'd wanted to co ahond nnd <10 it, nnd I had 23 no prior trninine;. Thoy would trnin you nc you went, 24 Q. Train you on the joh;in that necurnto?

25 A. They wanted people thn h had n: pr rience, but they 26 to3 d me that nince T'd been nroim<1 concreto nud knmr 27 how, you know, ithn t concT ete i u .nde up of on<l a 28 little Osmiliar with the clump testa, and things

s' I

i 18 2 like this, that they would go ahead and train me.

3 Train you nc they were pouring; is that what they Q.

4 had in mind?

5 A. Yeu nir. You have to understand that; the job ca-l 6 pacity that I Would ho ful filling was more or leSS 7 just taking the camples and things ii.ke this.

8 Q. What happens to the sampie then?

9 A. They take it to their shop and they test it for the IC slump and numcrous other tests, nomennun other in-11 spectionc T 'm not familiar with.

12 Q. Have you over had a had hatch?

13 A. I can' L cay thnt they hava 3 heconce T'm nct told; 14 T'm juct n lahorar.

15 Q. Have you ever known a case where they've token some 16 cement out becance it waun't any good?

17 A. No air.

18 To try to get norno recupoetive about this patchirc j Q.

i 19 o f u l.r pocketa and honeyconhi.ng; whnt are we talk-20 The reference that T grew up wi th wan inC about?

21 liko bigger t.han n brend hacket. Ilow bi g n ro we 22 talking about?

23

' A. I've soon pa tchou au large nn. fivo (9) -- fcur (li) to five (5) font in square, or honeycomba cour (it) 24 25 and fivo (9) feet equare, that are patched in.

26 Four to five feet in diamotor ---

Q.

27 g, 7gg, l

28 -- like, would it como out like a hole?

Q.

1 19 2 A. Yeah; in dinneter, you know, they're irregular chapet .

3 They're not necessur.ily a hole er rectangle; they're 4 just irregular chapec.

5 .Q. And cometince quito deep, like a four feat wal) clear-6 ing to three feet of it, or more , or lecc , or what?

7 A. A foot or -- I've G00n patchen or honeycombs that'O 8 went in a foot, and better.

9 Q. And do you see thone as the form in removo-!?

10 A. Yes sir.

11 Q. To that uhen you sno them?

12 A. After the form ic rem:rted. You ciu ' t une them, be-13 cause of the forms, you know, blocking the cicht 14 of,them, until they're trken oCf.

I 15 Q. Would this be the average, or would they be much 16 smallcr?

17 A. They're on the average -- well there really icn't is an' average. Like T cny, they're irregular chapes 19 and they might he anywhere from a couple of incheu 20 to four (4) feet in diameter.

21 Q. Okny, if there wns an irreg:.ilarity of a couple of 22 inchen, what would happen; you'd juch to up nnd hit 23 it with n hnminer nnd ;;co if the coment u,nve, or 24 wha t?

> 25 A. Well, you could noe it. Tt'n just 1ittle holnn, 100%

26 like honeycomb; that'c the rencon it'c got the namn.

~

27 Q. Tt'd ho an n ren then, would it?

28 A. 'fes cir, that wottid be honeycombed.

1 20 .

2 It could be then all the way from two inchec to somo-Q.

3 thing like rive (5) feet in diameter --

4 A. Yec cir.

S Q. -- the honeycombed arcac that you're speaking of?

6 A. Yes cir.

7 Have you cycr known a case when an NRC inspector Q.

8 was on the site and knew of a honnycoch, und knew 9 that it was being covered up?

10 A. My impression of the NRC inspectors wac No sir.

11 that they were pretty sharp men; they caught ctuff 12 that the supervisorc would try to pull their leg 13 on, try to - cccuco the tera - of bullshit on them, 14 and they'd usually catch them on such things. Ilut ,

15 again, the URC inspectors, as I said, in a two-month 16 pcried I'Ve only coon him threc (3) times. That'c 17 not saying he'c not there more; but for where I'm tit.

18 and T'm dealing with the concretc work every day, 19 T've only neon hita approximately throc (3) tiracc.

20 What, curvey view woubt you havo or the conar"to, (c.

21 perconally? Uculd yon nec rive percent of .i t:, twe n t,; r--

22 five percent of it; how much are you involved in the 23 total concrete pict;uro?

24 A. A hundred (100) percent. i i

25 l Q. You anc it all then?

26 A. Yen cir. 'I'hn t coct, back to what T :,nid hofore.

27 T'm a concecto rinicher's helper, T'm a inborer work -

28 ing an a finisher's helper. My job ic to ctoy with l

1 l

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1 21 2 the finishers and keep them supplied, so I'm wherever 3 the finichers are, pouring concrete er patching holet .

4 Q. In other words, if comebody would question this at 5 some later time, they couldn't cay well he only caw 6 just five percent of the whole thing. You saw the 7 entiro -- you surveyed all of it. then; you survey -

8 A. (Interrupting) Yec cir, I'm walking around the 9 area every day, just gabhering up materials,and 10 there isn't five (5) percent of the areas that they'v e 11 poured that I haven't noon.

12 Q. Okay. Is there anything else that you want to add 13 here; anything that I haven't answered or asked you?

14 Anything at all you'd unnt to Gay in a general ntate-15 mont here?

16 A. My main concern over the Marbic TIill Nuclear Power 17 Plant is that it's within c fairly close range'of 18 my home. I'm not against nuclear energy; in fact, 19 I'm in favor of i.b. But I want to cce it done right .

20 I don't want to nec thinga that T've ixplained prior 21 in this tape to on rmd not be corrected, becauce I 22 believe that nuch things that I've cyplained will 23 def.initely nfract the workabi.l i t.y of the nucl cni-24 power plant.

25 Would it be renconnbic to cum up then that you

. Q.

26 think that the quality is below standards at 27 Marbic Ilill?

28 A. Yes'cir.

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j 1 22 clse 2 Q. Is there anything/you want to say here, Mr. Cutshall?

3 A. No sir.

4 Okay, this would continue the recorded interview; Q.

5 and you underst,and that thic hac been recorded and 6 that you're under oath to tell the truth?

7 A. Yes sir.

8 Ifl. GRAY: This concludes the recorded interview.

9 39 11 CONCLUSION OF STATHENT.

12 13 4

14 15 16 17

. 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27

28

..e I 23 2 _C _E _R _T _I _F _I _C _A _T _E 3 STATE OF INDIANA )

} SO:

4 CCUNTY OF JEFFFICOli) 5 I, Pat.ricia 3. Torlino, do bescoby cocti fy that I 6 am a Notary Public in and for the County of Jcfrerncn, State 7 Of Indiana, duly authorized and qualj fj ed to adlainister oaths; 8 That the foregoint cworn statement of Mr. Charles Edwar'd Cut-9 chall wac taken by mo in chorthand and on a tape recorder on 10 Hay 8,1978, in the law office of Thomac M. Dattilo, 311 East 11 Main Strect, Madison, Indinna; That the witness wa.s duly cworn 12 by me to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the 13 truth prior to giving said statement; That thic staterient has 14 been reduced to typowriting by no and contnina , < u.micte and 15 accurate transcript of the said statement.

16 I do further certify that T nm a disinborosted party 17 in this matter.

18 -

WITUESS ay hand and notarial seul thic 26th day 19 of May, 1979 20 21 22 /// 1 . /- u i tri ci n S. Torli no , ilo t;n ry l'ubli c 23 Jerrorcon Couni.y , Utal,o er Indiana.

24 25 My Commission F.xpiron:

26 May 30,1980, 27 28