ML19259C396
| ML19259C396 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Marble Hill |
| Issue date: | 05/08/1979 |
| From: | Cutshall C AFFILIATION NOT ASSIGNED |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML19259C395 | List: |
| References | |
| NUDOCS 7906180500 | |
| Download: ML19259C396 (22) | |
Text
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SWORN STATEMENT OF CHAPT.FR EDWARD CUTE IALL DATE: May e, 1979.
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TI[1E: li:30 P.M. !
l FREGE'iT : Thocas M. Dattilo , Attorney for Cave The 'In? l.:y.
Nr. Robert Grnv, Chairnan of Board of Dirac ters ,
Save The Va] ley.
Mr. Paul Richard Hill, acconpanying Charl os Edward Cutshall.
Mr. Charles Edward Curshall, the witness.
Mrs. Patricia S. Torline, the reporter.
The witness, Charles Edward Cutshall, having been duly sworn by the reporter to tell the truth, the who3.e truth and nothing but the truth, gave the following statement, tc-wit:
PATRICIA S. TORLINE SHORTHAND REPORTER RT. 6. BOX 2A MADISON. INDI ANA 47250
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3 :ii . Gliis i . Thi: it Bob Grn;< , a r c'
. ' . t circ tu n.: P ri ' r' y 4L to Cl tirle.1 Cutchai1; 's :i .. e u nd e rr t a"? 'ie ' :. < ':-
5 ployed at the Marbl- Hil' conttncti - .tro.
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Ih.ght I ack you r T . :a rr.e , ::r ':ut t. : l l , w m t, yo-1 I
7 do for a living; yar -"ri al ntur, : <! ; cur ico , t 8; p l e u n e ^.
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9L 4.. My nace in Cl.2rlo c . L'wari Gutchni', : : a .lt.ber. r IC - for IIewbert; Con;truct i r
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Are iou anrried, < i "? l I
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'? A. I am single. l l
13 I y.. Could y;u tell ue bric f'y .vhat ym: du 20 tr tiew- I i
14- berg constructici. cite -*t M :ble H:', <..;r tell 15 us briefly what you dc W re and 1: l e r.t f r ' ve I i
lo u been employed with them?
17 i 1 a. I alt. a Concrete l'ini ci;t r' L he-l jis r , a l a b0 rt:P. I t
' 8 d' help concrete fini: :icrc l s ..l. c thei" "ccc: ary .
J 10 1 materials to them and buildi:ic their ccs ffoldt a !d 1
o 20 [ Just gyneral handyman for them.
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21
- s. I!ow long have you been employed i . this :>o..i*:ic-?
22 ;1! n. Two (2) months.
23 9 (. Where were you employed before this?
24 a. I was employed by ..ac.wrJ.ut Secu ri ty for F.C.I.
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. C a the Marble liill .: _ *.e
20 p- a. On the Marble hi cc .s trw::icn c itt .
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27 j Q. And how long had you been e= ployed in that caracit;,i ,
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I 28 L then, Mr. Cutchall? -
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i what you r:nos e -
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(Interrupting) Cn:. yo2 1o .p<"ifie si . r" [
.. Approximately 5 miles Out.Nast eC Drtin, ! diar.a. l 1
Okay, co ahead. That wrul! he i '
.3 c e t t C s.. .ty?
4 .. Scott County. ,
" .. Go ahead. :
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I've been around concre e work till cy life; ty ,
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2' f ather's been a in tche r ':r c'. c ce to 50 y nra. !
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4, I'm faciliar with concrete work. i 1; s. F. ave you worked previously with your Dnd, in con- l crete?
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. . . Yes sir. i 28 o s.
'dhat time frames; like how long?
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oust sca t pours - patios and sidewa,u,.:. and things , 7-
- g for instance.
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3 Go ahead, pleace.
3, -- A . I'm concerned about the cer di t.j onc > :' tLi concrete di and things I have :=een on the Ma: bl e ilill construction i
5 site, pertaining to honeycar.b putchen.
o I Q. Please explain each r.qw. Formyco.nb is what in i i.
I 7
cement?
8]c a. Honeycomb patches are .ir pockets thnt form long. ;
9! forms, when the concrete forms, that leave air.poce.-l l
l 10' ets in the concrete where you can - the caterial's !
l l'1 real loose and just falls out. I i
12 4 You mean more narrow perhapc; less concrete in thick-13 s ness, or,what happens with a honeycomb? .
14 '
A. If a form is, say for inctance, four (4) feet thich d a !
15 or the concrete would he/four (4) feet thick wall lo and has a honeycomb on the side, it might go in as 17 '. much as two (2) or three (3) feet into it and have 18 ] the air pocket to where the concrete is loose. You 19 can just beat it out with a hancer, and in some 20 i l cases it'll fall out on its wn - just breaking it ;
21 1 with your hand. I 22 f q. Thus leaving it much more narrow than the specifi-t 23 !
cations would call for?
24 li A. Yes sir.
25] Q. Okay, and you've seen this at Marble Hill?
2$ -A. Yes sir. It is one of my jobs to patch these --
27 to supply as'.biala for the finishers to patch these es
' a areas.
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2' q. Okay, what structures nave you been working on down 3
there?
a A. Steam tunnels, just... (pausec) 5, Containment building? Have you ever been on the Q.
6: containment?
7' A. Containment side of the containment -- inside of the 8: containment.
a 9j s. The containment room itself?
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10 f. a. Yes sir.
ii c ;. Both inside and outside" Yes sir. ;
12 - n.
J -4 And you'Ve seen honey:ord in the cer ninrent strut.t1 14 L ure, itself?
15 0 A. Yes sir.
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As I understand then, it's part of your job to go 17 l around and patch these honeycombs au they occur?
is A. It is my job to supply the caterials for the finish-i 19 .i ers to patch.
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20 " q. To do this?
- a. Yes sir.
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22 q. I see. Okay, what was the next ite=, beside honey-
- l 23 > combs, that you talked about?
In one steam tunnel, along the -- where the wall 24 h A. 1 25 ' seets the floor on the perpendicular corners, I've j I'
seen water leaking throuEh these areas at a pretty 2c [
27 ; fast rate. I'd say approximately anywhere from five (3) to twenty (20) gallons an hour; and water ,
28 !
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3 comes from the lower levels and outside levels, out-3l side of the walls, just where the water'u backed up, d, and places I don't even know.
5; .c . Explain the steam tunnel; what do you know about i
o that?
7 . . .
Well, all I know on the ste,m tunnel is that that's B
where the excess steam, and the steam af ter it's 0
l 9l run through the turbines, follows these steac tunneld i
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I to where they're released through the cooling bins.
1 .
Okay, what -- have you observed why this is so?
?' Why is it leaking through from ground water, or whata t a ever?
4 ...
The -- just poor concrete work, just poor forms.
5' s. Like poor forming that causes the seac not to be
- e. sealed, or what? What exactly?
7 a. Just where the air pockets will run all the way 80 through to where the water will be on these seats, in corners.
l s. Would this have to do with the honeycomb situation F
" l that you talked about? l i
Yes sir, more than -- it'a ty idea that there's honeycombs on in the wall to where the water can run i
on through.
l There's -- the water has to be flowinc fro = someplace to be coming out of there, and I'm q not sure where it's coming from; but it is coming through.
- s. What other cement defects, besides boneycombing, do
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you know about; an.1 hrn ycu sean it at Marb12 Hill?
. . . On patches, I have ses- i ri ve (5) cases within tho last two (2) weeks whrre the supervision -- Newberg'm supervision, their supervirar or :'uperintendent , and other P.S.I. officialc will say patch them before the inspectors ca : c c m. b, i patches that should have been air-haTJererl out 3d- !
.,. (Interrupting) Do e:; thic go back to the honeycomb l situatian you talked abcat?
... Yes sir.
,. Okay, you're talkir.c now nScut a patching situation?,
- a. Yes sir. 'w ell , yo 1 hnve to patch the honeycombs. ,
, , . And this then was ' patch it borcre the NhC people could see it', did you say?
- n. Yes sir, on numerous counts. NRC is not there all the time and they cannot keep up with what's going on.
5 Is it supposed to be the procedure that the NRC see all honeycenbs that appear, or what?
the
... No sir; it's /trocedure for quality Control, or Q. A. ,
inspectors to see.
.. That's Newberg inspectors?
.. Newberg inspectors, to patch these -- to see these areas, and they put a tag on it; and that's where I i
was explaining to you, earlier. !
- s. '4 hat kind of tag; what does it look like?
!... Non -- not serviceable, poor caterial tags where J
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they have to -- after they put a tag on a honeycomb 3'
that hasn't been beat out, or a ir-hamrrered ou t , they 4 have to air-hammer it out; and then the inspector 5
has to come and look at it before they patch it, to 6
make sure it's done right. And on the occasions I 7
was talking about, the cupervisors will have them a
ccver up just the outside and not worry about the 9
incide of the patches. Before the inspectors can i.
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get around, they'll have them just mora or less mack l i
over, cover up, the areas before the incpector can !} !'
7 see it. I i 3 . : 1 So that so=ebody could understand, would it be fair l \
to equate this with like plastering over an area rather than filling it up completely?
- a. I Yes sir, that would be a good way to put it. '
.. Thus leaving -- !
t' Areas in-between.
-- an air bubble?
f
- a. Right. '
Inside the -- although it would look solid?
.. Right.
It'lljusthaveaninchorsooutercovering{
where they've slapped a patch on this honeyccab, f and just =ade it look good from the outside. You can't tell the difference until you get in there l
and start beating it out. '
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You said two or three times about beating it out; 'i how do you do that? i I
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With an air hammer, that'u what I meant; pneumatic 3/ air hammers. They're ,ja.ct ,p k hammtrn is what they 4 are, with chisel bits.
5; c. You mentioned something about the reinforcen:ent and the fact that the concrete cometimes doesn't shake down through. Would you explain tha t si tuation? .
Well, the reinforcement rod is placed cloce together in areas, to where the concrete cannot get in-betweeg the reinforcement rod and the fo rms , to where it doesn't fill in the forms completely and leaves patch l holes in it and honeycomb holes. It's nct vibrated down right and it's poor concrete.
- x. Poor concrete?
.. That's what it would have to be. It'd be too rocky in places.
- s. In other words, the mix is wrong or something?
.s. Right. Whentheystartpouringtheconcrete,they'1k have a real high rock content in it, right at the beginning, and then it'll come out to the right mixture after the beginning; but they'll pour this on in the beginning of the forms to start out with.
.. Who's reponsible for seeing that this is not done --
or to see that it's done properly; and evidently it's not then. Who's responsible?
. . . I would say the concrete superintendent, the finich-er superintendent, and the concrete pouring crews fore =ans and superintendent.
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1 10 2
- s. Are they supposed to be there when all concrete is 3 poured?
4 .... They are; they're in pouring the concrete, 30 they'rq 5 , there. See, you -- when they pour concrete, you of have pneunatic vibrators, electric vibrators, that o ,
vibrate the concrete on down into these, or into i 7[d I 8l. the honeycomb -- I cean into the rebarb; and that's !
f I 9 the reason for the vibrations, so you won't have I i l.
O' honeycomb. But they're not doing it correctly, or l I i Il the rebarb's too close to permit the concrete to l 2, fill in these areas.
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Please explain that?
4I .. . Steel rebarb is just reinforcement steel that's in j i
5 concrete, so it can hold a heavier stress and -- ;
I 6 well that would just be the main problem for them --l 7 heavier strecs.
s ..
Have you known any occasions when the shakedown 9 mechanism wasn't working at all?
9l . , . I cannot honestly say that I've never seen then not l !
'l vibrate concrete; they've always vibrated them, but 1: they're not doing it right.
'3 ;.
Well, not doing it riE ht is fairly general. Can you
'd ' be more specific? Like do you know why it's not 5 working properly?
6, . They're not letting the concrete vibrate down into ;
7 the holes into the places where the honeyco b de- j i'
8 velopes, and that's what causes the honeycomb. !
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i 11 2 They're... (pauses)
Ji s. A =atter of time?
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Yes, they're pushing it and they're trying to make 5
it as fast as possible.
o .,. In other words, if they'd let it vibrate longer it wouldn't develop honeycombs?
7 af ,. In my opinion, yes sir.
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9 .,. Okay. You mentioned the possibility that an NRC OI i
inspector had seen this crack situation at one of l !' the tunnels?
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.. I was in a steam tunr..I working with finisners that 3 !'
were patching a steam tunnel, and an NRC inspector i
dj came to the area. Now, I cannot say that he didn't I
s' write something down, but he, in my opinion, never i
6, took notice of the situation - of the cracks in the 71 Seams or the water coming throuEh.
Si 1
How often does an NRC inspector come to inspect the 9l cement situation?
I 9:
. I've seen, in my period of working there close to
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two (2) conths, I've seen him I'd say three (3) 7' times.
'3
.. Three (3) times?
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'd j . . . Yes sir.
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. How much cement would have been poured then in this ol period, in your judgment; could you tell? i I: i Hundreds and thousands of yards of concrete, 8 ..
. Is it a fair statement ... n to say that the quality, _
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? the y.A. as you referred to, h:.L to be done by New-l{ terg, and the NRC real ly P 4 s no e f f ec ti v e way. Is a that fair to say?
5 .
That would be fair, because NRC cannot be en the St f site, or they're not on the site; I guess they could t'
7 .'
be on the site all the time, but they're not on the si site all the time; and when they are there my super-i a
i visors, and the people I wo rk with, nave catice be-l fore they can even come on the site. It's my ex- l 3h 9
14 perience, because I wcrked as a guar 1 on the securiry, 4
2r for P.S.I., that they're not allowed on the site l I
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without a P.S.L esecrt. i 4 .
Not allowed? .
5y .
No sir, they will not let thec come into the site L
6 without having a F.S.I. esecrt; and this was what i.
7y I was instructed to do if -- when I was working or i
d og a guard, dnd I'd be on tt., gate and an NRC man 9 ;
N came in, I was to hold him there until F.S.I. was 3 notified and co=e to escort him.
I" .
In other words, if I came -- if you were a guard 2' there and I came there and identified myself as an 1
3, NRC inspector, I couldn't enter the premises until s' a P.S.I. person came to escort me?
5 .
Yes sir; unless it's changed in the last two weeks, l i l
that's the way it was. f h i
7 I see. Po you know any of the Newberg inspectors, !
1 personally?
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,_-i ..l '; .' i 13 2 N No t personally; I know them by cicrt. 3 And these -- is thi- thei r only job, to inspect 4 cecent, or do they have just generG inspectorn?
- 5) What is a Newberg inspector?
6 A Newberg inspector, the only one I'm s ecacia teri 7 with is the concrete inspectcrs, and I think their I e only job is to inspect concrete. I ' h i r k , :n.d I ' m i i 9h f pretty cure, they have other inspec't:rs for~their t 0 l carpentry work and iron works and this cort of thinc. I
1 L
1 You told us somethinC than about the appar<-n t de- i l l 2 , s fects that are indeed in the s t ru c tu rn ri :h t row; [ L r 3 . i you know that they're there, is *. hat ri:. n t? a 4, . Yes sir. f l ! 3 ,' L Back to the particular structures, you say the e 1n- _ l ! 4 j f side and the outside of the containment rocm, itselff ( 7 is affected; that you know that these things are ! l e { covered up there? l 9, . Yes sir. cl ,. The containment room, itself? ti j ,. The containment walls sir, when I first i started, was G; {
-- one of my first jobs was to help patch these 1 1 f g i
holes on the side containment, inside and outside. ' I l si I They, majority-wise, they patch most of the hcles 1' 1 according to qualifications, or according to the si way it's supposed to be; but they have sc car.y de-7' fects anc holes that need to be patched that they l i
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8! 1 can't Set them all; and that's the reason, one reasor., i 6 i l t l
- . .. . . _ _w. s .... _. .6 14 they're pushing the Jcb no hard to try and get it done - that they' re pitching over thece defects be-
. fore the inspectors can see them.
. . And this is done purposely then, as jou have pointed I
, out? l
. Yes sir, it's the only way it could be. The super-
- l visors say ' patch in over'.
i, , And they say that in so rany words - a Newberg j[ supervior says that?
- ( , I've heard statemento wl.e re , from the aupervior i i personnel, to say fill in certain holes or honeycon.b !
3h in the side of a wall before the inspector can see I 4 it. I, myself, have helped with this by hauling 5 the =aterial and drypack to these holes and patchen. 6 , We've asked you about the containment room, itself, F and you also have talked about a steam tunnel; any II other structures involved in this honeycombing and h 7 the cover-over, that you :tnow of? I 3l u. Your turbine room walla, your floors; there's all ^ l l} kinds of walls, concrete walls and floors that, see , 2 are necessary, besides just the containment. You 3 have places where your hent pumps or sc=e generators 4 are going to be, and just pipeworks and ductwcr'cs . I Sh I and things like this that the patches aren't right, f 6 too. I I' F
.s . In other words, the same situation in the things I )i you've just mentioned then; those kind of rooms?
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I 15 i ,, I would say the majority is or other, the turbine rocca and things, instead of the containment. It
- is on the containment , too, but it see:c there was 1
.: core on the other areas.
., , Can you tell us, Mr. Cutshall, about porosity of l
. i cement. We're all well aware of the Three-Mile ;
I Island situation and porosity cecent, where radiation l apparently can get through three and a half (3%) to . 1 : si four (4) feet of concrete. Is there any specifi-is cations you're aware of as to porosity of cement i t[ being poured at Marble Hill on various structures; ig{ or do you know anything about that? L l , , , I'm not real familiar with the tern porosity; I've i i heard it mentioned by the :TRC inspector. The in- i l
> formation I have is through an NRC inspector, where l I
t - he was telling me that radiation will leak through ! I i I seams and honeycomb patches at a lot larger rate i 7 than if it was solid concrete and done riE ht. i
) .. But you're not familiar with concrete porosity as l l
l' such? i t' , , , I can't honestly say I am. l .,, Do you know who's furnishing this concrete? I
. , , Newberg Construction Company. They have their own i batch plant and they mix their cwn concrete.
. .,, Their own batch plant right on - ?
, , , Right on the site. l l
In other words, this is not a sublet proposition? I
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M i i 16 l , i:o -ir, they mir their own cocerote. i . T y're total'..e resp m ible, I c.:e. 40 whatever mix i ! i
%o;r make, it's their rei2no r.:- i b i l i t.y all the ws.'i' l' ,
- c. i r . TF ere ' n a testinc, 1.'s. Teating Car,roratior ,
> ir the one that's respunaible for testirc the con-e cr.te far the proper slump ano the p ope r si xtu rec ~J 3! _ 'u.- is a wa ter content , somhow t:,do with the .i i
pg c o r.c re t e , nnd the t ritti r4tix of ce mnt and cand i 1 1. . tr.1 rock mixed to.c.etter. i . '.-d this is Urt i t e d ." * ' e s Te t i r.e'. J o :r :. n.v . did .rou y .-.,.:> f
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>b e ' T.etal bars and tent concrot. an-i test heating
- nnta of different no ter -d a _ri so on.
i .ih a t 's their rela ti ,nshi p r.s i ngenter, cr testors s TPey're a sub-cor.tructor to P. .I., for 'Jewberg. la . Z ey're not the irr ec orn that ..to u ' v e t:,lked about r po 9 i L uir; this is d if fere-t. i ], o ht, exactly, do they do? I r..e i n , ia they not do i ij it , the -- where i i
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! - . thi.s, that, '.' y wcul<i co ahead and train =e.
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.- you 9:. -ey we're pouring; ir P6 t t what they l
n r.inti? ir. Yo. have to u-' !c r7 tar i P ha t- the dob u en-l ;"y that T wcu' -! be fHfillin; w, more or less I -r hi < inc tbv
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t *4 ' t ' I4 !'. iG .' t C I EtD O "e'> r . il , 6 */ - ,70u PVe r kr . ." M C.' 9 6 Whero H, ,le ti on Home .4 e 7.-;r.t ou*. beca. . i t w.s u r '
- m.v, ..
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t i i 'a t ry t o g. t ac-c . o rs p.;r t i '. . i be. ' P tb is ; ; t. chi c; g , 4 O I-1 [ [NO
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ig i . .; .b; :t? ~2he ref'"erce F'at 7 cr w .p with was a 1 i k rs h i gge,s p than q hr,1 gd 1,3, , t . 7 , ',-3 hi g r1pq 3e
- 11':i.ng abo';t ?
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I've Jeen patche.; as 1irce ns f i vr- /5) -- fcur (4)
.a five (5) fer* in sq..-e, ar br +; rbc four (a; G
J e 4 fivP (D) feet equr"e, t' .n t a ro ; r<'hed in. e 8
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*,o five c . e. ir- A ' a r.r t e; r --
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- t. .
I -- like, won'.i "e r ,- ou~ 14.e c- ha'e
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M 19 Y i: . .; in diacet..r, ; c u 1:now , they're :rregul.c chapea. Jh.j're not rec.su:irdly .s hole or ree'- :1 r ; + hey're 1
. : t. irro:mla r chayes.
, .m vtices quite <t e e p , like ti foe
- at wa ll ci si1- .
. *o three feet or i t, or rt.or.? , o r i t ... , or what? !
. . f u . . t. or -- I've see- patchet or honoyc o:bs that ' c l
,; n' i' a foot, and bett.r. t
. ' do you see thec- au tr'.e form i.; re".;en ,
. .I .es . f,
, '_ tl. it when you cee the:? !
I
, . . -' t ? - form is removed. Icu c:e.'t .o t h e: r. , be- ,
i a u e o the forns, s-ou know, blodire the n i et t _ _ i
._ r he.x , u:it il they ' re. t.;'< en e f f.
1
,_..id thit be the averace, ur would -h.j 50 much .
1 a l '. o r? ! i.
. m.ct're on the c.vernoe -- .u:11 there re:> ll.y icn't i
u ave rn ce . Like I cny, t. hey're 'rrecular .M apes l n r.,1 they might he a nywh.' re frc:a , ccup'.o o*' inchen i I
*o fcur (4) feet in diacetor. f if there wac an i rrec 11 a ri t.y o f :s coup 1" of i
.1s. .
\.
- h. s , wuat wo'21d happen; you'c just cu up and hit I 4-with a han~aer and Jee if the ceter.t cive. or j i
..m..;.n. ,I h , . u l , ;. 4 could see it. !:'c ju : l !'le nei n , 1 t h.
i like honeyccab; t :d 's the reason it'a 0^: th" nane.;
, :t.' 1 be an area then, wc.;2d it?
i
, "w sir, that would 're honayecst d. i i
i i
6 M 20 t '-
, uld be ther. n11 the way frca two ir^ hec to ecc.e-I '
~t- 1ike fivo (5) f-et i n d iame t er --
I ,, I- L i r. 6, .
-he honeycombed arrmc tha t you ' re m,k:ng of?
I ,
. . . , _ir.
1 1
'i
, /. 7. m ever known i inse w 'n . N H '.' i r. u p e c t o r h !
I4 ;<- o r, the site and kna of a hon vc mb, ari knew i p - ilv , e it was being ccvere.1 up? I 1
, , .ir. My impress.>r of the miC 4wc';ra wo-f i ,l -
i- t!.ey were pret ty c, harp t m , they er.,+.t ett.f r ! r )a P"o supervisorn 'aoul4 t g to pull tuir 1.c i l .4 -, t"y to - excuse the ter - of b Sit r-9.em , - l If .\
" eyi usually catch them on cuc". thincc. But, l d
r
-: i, the NRC :.nsr.ctur , au I caid, i: a !
s t t.zu-r m.: 1. t i i . icd I've only se-n him three (3)
- i ws . .
Th it ' c l i h o t say:.nc he 's *.o *, thorn a.3 e ; but f ,1 - i >. . - re I ' .t. i t. , 4
- -! I'm dealing witt ?- h o coverete work every day, i j T've only seen him approxir.ately thrrr (3j timec. !
. ,- curvey view wo.1d you have of the concrete, I i
. I o cenally? Would you see five perce*;t of it, tweity-I ...e percent of it; how much are you involved in the y,al eencrete picturo? j
\
, ...rdred (100) percent. ,
I
, Mu c'e it all then?
\'
, -c cir. That caos beck t a hat I n i d h *' ore . l
! ' .: a concrete fini . .ter' t "elper, I'; u lalo er werkL .
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.c : inishers ar.! :.cT them supplie1, rc I': wherever th fi:nchers - r e- 3 .vur n-v c o r.c r e t - :. r p:x ',c hi n: , S c i eq . s l
l 1
- other wceds, if cutebo:ly woul.1 qu i ,
-icn thin at
. :r . lu*'r time, they couldr.'t any we'.' he only saw just five pcrcent of the whcIn thinc. 'f o u mw the i
.. tire -- you curveyr.3 all e f i +- the ; 3 i; c;rvey -
l a
, '. :* : .rrupting) Yec tr, ! ' r, wa l k i r.c i r. .- a ' O.c
- i . v ery day , juct c '.
. .ir.; u- - r i .1. , ,4 r.d I,
i, . r. i s r. ' t fi ve ( 5 )' .e.e ore of the c: ,_ thst the;.'ve .f l
- :re 1 that I nm: ' t .: e o r . .
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. ; .:. Tu thero uc s .t L . x.. 1ce t :.a t - s . .u t t a n -in
( re; ..ythinc thnt T ,.1-n't answerec. or 7u.:o1 you? . I thirr at all a"ou'_ wt. ' to sa" sin s
- <,une ra : ctate-n t nere:
iir concern ovo" the Marble liill .: ."'<:ir Fewer
.lant is that it's wi',h~: fairly clo_. r w of h a::.. . I ' :.: not a..ii et n 1.m r er.crg , in fact, f
I in favor of it. '.t I wa:t te c.m i* 1er- rirhti n 1 want to see thfr.cc tl.ut I' v l .t t x; 1. i r.ed prior l th'.:, tape to on and ror be cc.rrec t c d . t+^nuce I
- c _: . ve tha t cu::1. thv in c t, hat I've c.,,lm.:ed will I ,3 ?
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, .. . u l a 4t be reaconnb'. *a _ :- u: e-. ti ;a. ;
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22 el;c t re anything/you want to say here, Mr. Cutshall?
. . t' .
- s. n. , this would c ar.ti r.ue the recorded interview,
.i you understand that; this han been rrcorded and i r jou're under oat,h to tell the truth?
, . <:oncludes the rorcrded intervi.w.
i l t Ju:iCLUSION L1- '?f.G .E:iT . I, 1 i i i i
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. 23
_C _E _R _T _I _F _I _C _A _T _E
< ...,.,.a>
. s . , s. . a )
4
) SS:
l [3 J .: :. . t. .:c..SCGII) i 0 ( :, Iatricia S. Torline, do hereby certify that I t
,l, a- , ..; -
," rublic in and for the County of Jefferson, State
' .e 1
1 r*- . , ..y authorized and qualified to administer oaths; 1 0s - -
- i,i .g sworn statement of Mr. Charles Edward Cut-h T
.... . .. * :re by =e in shorthand and en a tape recorder on l 3. ;n
;. , .. the law office of Thocas M. Dattilo, 311 East lI 6 , .*r,.n , " liuon, Indiana; That the witness wa.s duly sworn 4
.' t j . .- . t.11 tM truth, the whole truth and nothing but the a,-
hf :: *.: 7: .:
~
~ t::ving said statement; That this statement has -
4 y. j f 3 ,. ,. : . , ' ..- to typewriting by ce and contains a couplete and JP hP'
- ript of the said statement.
j- : .h further certify that I am a disinterested party G* . . .: . ; .c .
$'.; 3
,,IT EES ay hand and notarial seal this 26th day p , " .; , * '
M
.A t. ,
" J o o ,
fl a d ~
- k. Patricia S. Torline, Iiotary Public
@ Jefferson County, State of Indiana.
t N T c.x; ; re s :
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