ML110680070: Difference between revisions

From kanterella
Jump to navigation Jump to search
(Created page by program invented by StriderTol)
 
(Created page by program invented by StriderTol)
 
(3 intermediate revisions by the same user not shown)
Line 14: Line 14:
| page count = 24
| page count = 24
}}
}}
=Text=
{{#Wiki_filter:Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
==Title:==
10 CFR 2.206 Petition RE Vermont Yankee Docket Number:    50-271 Location:        (telephone conference)
Date:            Wednesday, March 2, 2011 Work Order No.:  NRC-759                          Pages 1-22 ORIGINAL NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433
1 1                      UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2                    NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3                                  +++++
4                          PETITION REVIEW BOARD 5-    ------------------------- x 6  IN THE MATTER OF:
7  VERMONT YANKEE 10 CFR                      Docket No. 50-271 8  2.206 PETITION FROM 9  MICHAEL MULLIGAN 10        -------------------------x 11                                    Wednesday, 12                                    March 2,      2011 13                    The    above-entitled          matter  convened        via 14  teleconference,        pursuant to notice,            at 10:30 a.m.
15  PRESENT:
16  THEODORE R.      QUAY,    Chairman,      Petition Review Board 17  MICHAEL MULLIGAN,          Petitioner 18  DAVID ALLEY,        Division of Component Integrity 19  MERRILEE BANIC,        NRR 20  JAMES DEVINCENTIS,          Entergy Nuclear 21  JAMES S.      KIM,  Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation 22        (NRR) 23  TANYA MENSAH,        NRR 24  NANCY SALGADO,        NRR 25  THOMAS SETZER,        Region I,      NRC NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433            WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701      www.nealrgross.com
2 1                            P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2                                                                    10:00 a.m.
3                      MR. KIM:      Okay. Good morning.        I'd like 4 to thank everybody for attending this meeting.                                    My 5 name is James Kim and I am the Vermont Yankee project 6 manager.
7                      We are here today to allow the Petitioner, 8 Mr. Michael Mulligan,            to address the Petition Review 9 Board regarding 2.206 petition dated January 18, 2011.
10 I'm      the    petition        manager      for    the    petition.          The 11 Petition Review Board chairman is                        Ted Quay. As part 12 of the Petition Review Board's review of this petition 13 Mr. Michael Mulligan has requested this opportunity to 14 address the Petition Review Board.
15                      This meeting is          scheduled from 10:30 to 16 11:30 a.m.            The meeting is        being recorded by the NRC 17 Operations Center and will be transcribed by a court 18 reporter.            The transcript will become a supplement to 19 the      petition.          The    transcript        will    also  be      made 20 publicly available.
21                      I'd    like      to    open      this    meeting      with 22 introductions.              As you go around the room, please be 23 sure to clearly state your name,                    your position and the 24 office        that    you    work    for within        the  NRC  for      the 25 record.          I'll    start off.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433                WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701        www.nealrgross.com v
3 1                    This is    James Kim.        I'm a project manager 2 for    the Division of          Operating        Reactor    Licensing        in 3 NRR.
4                    MS. SALGADO:      This is      Nancy Salgado.          I'm 5 the branch chief in            the Division of Operating Reactor 6 Licensing,        NRR>
7                    MS. BANIC:        Merrilee        Banic,    Generic 8 Communications Branch,              NRR.
9                    MR. ALLEY:        Dave Alley,          senior materials 10 engineer,        Division of Component Integrity.
11                    MR. QUAY:      Ted    Quay,      deputy  director, 12 Division of Policy and Rulemaking,                      NRR.
13                    MR. KIM:      At this time are there any NRC 14 participants          from headquarters on the phone?
15                    MS.      MENSAH:            Tanya        Mensa,        2.206 16 coordinator,          NRR.
17                    MR. KIM:      Are there any NRC participants 18 from the regional office on the phone?
19                    MR. SETZER:          Hi,  good morning.          This is 20 Tom Setzer, senior project engineer for Region I,                            NRC.
21                    MR. KIM:    Are there any representatives 22 for the licensee on the phone?
23                      (No audible response.)
24                    MR. KIM:    Okay.      Mr. Mulligan,    would you 25 please        introduce yourself for the record?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433              WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701          www.nealrgross.com
4 1                      MR. MULLIGAN:          I'm Mike Mulligan            and I 2  live about two miles from Vermont Yankee.                            Thank you.
3                      MR. KIM:      Are there any other interested 4  members of the public on the phone?
5                        (No audible response.)
6                      MR. KIM:      There    is    none.      I'd    like      to 7  emphasize          that    we    each    need      to    speak  clearly        and 8  loudly        to  make    sure    that    the    court    reporter        can 9  accurately transcribe                this meeting.          If  you do have 10  something that you'd like to say, please first                                state 11  your name for the record.
12                        For those dialing into the meeting, please 13  remember to mute your phone to minimize any background 14  noise      or distractions.              If  you do not        have    a mute 15  button,        this can be done by pressing keys star                          six.
16  To un-mute,          press the star          six keys again.          Thank you.
17                      At    this time        I  turn it      over to the          PRB 18  chairman,        Ted Quay.
19                      MR. QUAY:    Good morning.          Welcome to this 20  meeting regarding the 2.206 petition submitted by Mr.
21  Mulligan.          I'd    like to first        share some background on 22  our process.
23                      Section 2.206 of Title 10 of the Code of 24  Federal        Regulations        describes        the petition process, 25  the      primary      mechanism        for    the    public      to  request NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433                WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701          www.nealrgross.com
5 1 enforcement        action by the NRC in                a public process.
2 This process permits anyone to petition NRC to take 3 enforcement-type          action related to NRC licensees or 4 licensed activities.            Depending on the results of its 5 evaluation,        NRC could modify,            suspend or revoke an 6 NRC-issued        license,      or take      any other      appropriate 7 enforcement action to resolve a problem.
8                    The NRC staff guidance for the disposition 9 of 2.206 petition requests is                in Management Directive 10  8.11,      which is  publicly available.
12                    The purpose of today's meeting is                to give 12  the      Petitioner      and    opportunity          to  provide        any 13  additional      explanation or support                for the petition 14  before the Petition Review Board's final consideration 15  and recommendation.
16                    This meeting is        not a hearing,        nor is        it 17  an    opportunity      for    the    Petitioner        to  question        or 18  examine the Petition Review Board on the merits or the 19  issues presented in the petition request.
20                    No decision regarding the merits of this 21  petition will be made at this meeting.
22                    Following this meeting the Petition Review 23  Board will conduct            its internal deliberations.                    The 24  outcome of        this internal meeting will be discussed 25  with the Petitioner.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433            WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701          www.nealrgross.com
6 1                      The    Petition        Review        Board  typically 2 consists        of  a  chairman,        usually      a  manager  at      the 3 senior executive            service      level at the NRC and has a 4 petition          manager        and    a    Petition        Review      Board 5 coordinator.                  Other      members      of  the  Board        are 6 determined by the NRC staff based on the content of 7 the information in              the petition request.
8                      At this time I would like to introduce the 9 Board.          I  am Ted      Quay,    the    Petition      Review    Board 10 chairman.          James Kim is        the petition manager for the 11 petition under discussion today.                        Tanya Mensah is        the 12 Office        of  Petition      Review    Board      coordinator.          Our 13 technical staff includes Dave Alley from the Office of 14 Nuclear        Reactor      Regulations        Piping and NBE        Branch, 15 Thomas Setzer from NRC Region I's                      Division of Reactor 16 Projects.
17                      As described in our process,              the NRC staff 18 may      ask    clarifying        questions        in    order  to    better 19 understand the Petitioner's presentation and to reach 20 a reasoned decision whether to accept                        to reject the 21 Petitioner's            request      for    review        under  the      2.206 22 process.
23                      I would like to summarize the scope of the 24 petition under consideration and the NRC activities                              to 25 date.      On January 18th, 2011 Mr. Mulligan submitted to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433              WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701        www.nealrgross.com
7 1 the      NRC  a  petition          under      2.206    concerning          the 2 inspection        activities        associated with the                advanced 3 off-gas referred to as AOG,                    piping tritium leak and 4 its    root cause analysis.              We may refer to it          as RCA of 5 the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Station.
6                    In this petition request Mr. Mulligan:                        (1) 7 requests that Vermont Yankee be immediately shut down 8 and that        Entergy      be prohibited          from owning nuclear 9 power plants;          (2)    requested an Extent of Conditions 10 with        Entergy    providing          the    NRC    with    inaccurate 11 information,        false and incomplete                documents and any 12 falsifications          to the NRC;        (3)  requested that the NRC 13 look into if        Entergy gave new false testimony to any 14 proceeding with the State of Vermont;                      (4)  requested an 15 Office of Inspector General investigation concerning 16 recent falsification              and incomplete NRC inspections; 17  (5)      requested      an      Extent      of    Conditions        with      any 18 falsified      and incomplete licensing basis updated final 19 safety analysis            report or any plant engineering and 20 plant        designs      that      protect        the    public      and      the 21 environment of the people surrounding Vermont Yankee; 22  (6)      requested        a    national        formal      NRC    Code        and 23 Regulations        on    RCA    and    the    quality      of    RCA;        (7) 24 requested to have a discussion with top NRC official 25 in    charge or the most knowledgeable on RCA;                      (8)  stated NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433              WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701          www.nealrgross.com
8 1 that Entergy's corrective actions program is                        keyed off 2 the RCA or root cause evaluation,                      also referred to as 3 RCE,      and    asserts      that    Entergy's          corrective      action 4 program is          corrupted and that they don't address why 5 the tritium leak occurred;                  (9)  has requested that the 6 NRC    be    prohibited      from ever using            the  term    "it      is 7 before the ROP overhaul and it                  is    of no concern to the 8 NRC;"      and    finally,      (10)    stated      in    the  case    of    OIG 9 involvement          it    should    be  an open        NRC  OIG process, 10 mostly the investigation should be accurate swift and 11 open.
12                      Allow me to discuss the NRC activities                        to 13 date.
14                      On January        21st,    2011      you  requested          to 15 address          the    Petition        Review        Board      to    provide 16 supplemental information for the Board's consideration 17 prior        to    the    PRB's      internal      meeting      to    make        an 18 additional recommendation.
19                      The    PRB    met    on January        24th,    2011      and 20 denied          your      request      for      immediate        action          to 21 immediately          shut      down    Vermont        Yankee.        The      PRB 22 determined          there was no immediate                safety concern to 23 the plant or to the public health and safety.                                    The 24 system is          non-safety        related      and the      tritium leak 25 amounted        to    approximately        less      then    one  millirem NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433              WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701          www.nealrgross.com
9 1 exposure        to the public.              No drinking      water    sources 2 were impacted.        Therefore,          the PRB denied the request 3 to immediately shut down Vermont Yankee.
4                    On January 25th, 2011 you were informed of 5 the PRB's decision on the immediate action.
6                    On February 3rd,              2011 you addressed          the 7 Petition Review Board by a teleconference and provided 8 additional information in                support of your petition.
9                    On  February          10th,      2011  the    PRB      met 10 internally to make an initial                      recommendation on your 11 petition.          The    Petition          Review      Board's      initial 12 recommendation was not to accept your petition.                                For 13 your request Nos.        1, 2,      3,    5 and 8 the Petition Review 14 Board        determined    your      petition        did  not    meet      the 15 criteria        for  review because              the  petition    failed        to 16 provide sufficient facts to warrant further inquiry.
17 For your request Nos.            4,    6,  7,    9 and 10 the Petition 18 Review Board determined                that these were outside the 19 scope of the 2.206 process,                  however,      the petition has 20 been forwarded to the NRC OIG per your request.
21                    On February 15th,              2011 you were informed 22 of the PRB's initial          recommendation and you requested 23 another        opportunity      to address            the  Petition Review 24 Board to provide          any comments              to the  PRB's    initial 25 recommendation and additional information in                          support NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433            WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701            www.nealrgross.com
10 1  of your petition.
2                    As a reminder for the phone participants, 3 please        identify yourself          if  you make any remarks            as 4  this will help us in              the preparation of the meeting 5  transcript that will be made publicly available.
6 Thank you.
7                    And at this point, Mr. Mulligan,              I'll      turn 8  it  over to you.
9                    MR. MULLIGAN:          I essentially got a short 10 blurb,        a couple of paragraphs,              and basically what it 11  said was the PRB initial                recommendation was to reject 12 your petition because your petition did not meet the 13 criteria        for review.        Some of your requested actions 14 did      not    meet  the    criteria        for    review  because        the 15 petition failed to provide sufficient facts to warrant 16 further inquiry and other requested actions were not 17 in    the      scope    of    the      2.206    process,    however        the 18 petition was forwarded to the OIG.                      So I never got the 19 specifics        on which numbers were which that you just 20 identified.          Anyways --
21                    MR. QUAY:      Mr. Mulligan?
22                    MR. MULLIGAN:          Yes.
23                    MR. QUAY:      Would it      be helpful if    I repeat 24 which      number    requests        failed    to  provide  sufficient 25 facts and others which were outside the scope?
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433              WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701        www.nealrgross.com w
11 1                  MR. MULLIGAN:        Could you just identify the 2  ones that failed to provide sufficient                          information?
3                    MR. QUAY:      Sure.      Request No.          1, request 4  No. 2,  request No. 3,    request No.      5 and request No.              8.
5                    MR. MULLIGAN:          Oh,    I    thought      you      were 6  going to read them to me,                  but that's        all  right.          We 7  really don't need to do that.                    I'll      pick it      up when 8  they read the        --
9                    MR. QUAY:          You  can      go    back    to      the 10  transcript.          Or if      you're having a problem with the 11  transcript,        I  sure you can call us                and we can give 12  them back to you again.                If  you'd like to,          I can read 13  them to you.
14                    MR. MULLIGAN:          Oh,  that's      okay.        That's 15  okay.        We can go on.
16                    MR. QUAY:      Okay.
17                    MR. MULLIGAN:          Thank you.            Basically,          I 18  mean,      the problem is,        I mean, over this tritium issue.
19  We    generally      have      issues    with    the      quality      of      the 20  inspection activities              around Vermont Yankee.                  I know 21  you're following          the rules and stuff,                but like        I've 22  been saying for many years now,                    you know,        following 23  the rules doesn't necessarily mean you're doing good.
24                    I  mean,      you  know,    we    think    you    owe      --
25  basically Entergy said in                their RCA that the tritium NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433            WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701              www.nealrgross.com
12 1  --  a tunnel was a radioactive containment barrier and 2  we      want    to  know    basically        what    the  engineering 3  justification is          for that statement.              And basically 4  that revolves around honest and complete information 5  to the public on what was going on here.                        You lost a 6  plant over it.          And so,      I mean,      that's what this all 7  revolves        around.        We    know    you're    following          the 8  procedures on inspecting Vermont Yankee but we don't 9  think        we've    come    to    the    --      we  don't    get        the 10  appropriate information on it.                  The rules are designed 11  to hide information and not disclose information to 12  the public.
13                      That's what        we basically think was                the 14  reason        why  you    lost    Vermont        Yankee.      It's      not 15  inherently because the plant wasn't capable of being 16  relicensed.          It  was because        of generally mistrust, 17  mistrustful communications and stuff like that.                              And 18  we thought that the agency would be the one that would 19  get      to    the  bottom      of  a  lot      of  this  mistrustful 20  communication.              You    know,    it's      almost  like        you 21  regulate        acceptably        misinformation          or  incomplete 22  information.          And that's just unbelievable that this 23  is    happening.
24                      So like I said, you know,              I thought that 25  this should have --            there was very little          meat in      the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433            WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701        www.nealrgross.com
13 1 inspection findings all throughout the tritium issue 2 and it      never got down to clearly stating what were the 3 scientific characterizations of the AOG piping.                                You 4 know,      engineering is        supposed to be science and it's 5 supposed to be faith --              fact-based and not supposed to 6 be essentially Entergy guesses that it's                      a radioactive 7 containment barrier.
8                      So  this    is  all    is    around    honesty        and 9 truthfulness and stuff.                  You know,        the end of this 10 essentially,          you know,      when you start building a $5 11 billion new plant the question's going to be asked 12 eventually.            There's      going      to    be  a  disgruntled 13 employee.          He's going to come up with pictures or his 14 cell phone videos of something going wrong and stuff.
15 And the question is are you going to use the rules to 16 expose everything and make yourselves better and cast 17 away      the    inaccuracies        and,      you    know,    rededicate 18 yourself        in  building a new plant appropriately and 19 stuff?        I mean, that's what the question is really, is 20 are you prepared to build a new plant?
21                      And what we can see, what I can see in the 22 2.206 process is you're just using rules to obfuscate 23 what's going on.            You're not using the rules to give 24 the community a sense of assurance,                      you know?        These 25 are the facts.            These are what we got.                This is what NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433              WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701          www.nealrgross.com
14 1 we have down in our paperwork.
2                    You know,      and this recommendation to me, 3 you know, the PRB, again you really didn't give me the 4 reason why.          You just said, you know,              this No.      1, 2, 5 3,    later on,      6,  8,    9,  you know,      are this way.            You 6 didn't        really    give      me    the  reasons      why  they      were 7 rejected and stuff.              And that's another problem that, 8 you know,        the agency doesn't seem to want to go by 9 science.
10                    We read on your Web site the president 11 executive order,            improving regulation and regulatory 12 review.        By authority vested in me as President of the 13 United States and the laws of the United States of 14 America        and  in    order      to  improve      regulations          and 15 regulatory review it                is    hereby ordered as follows:
16 General principles and regulations and our regulatory 17 system are to protect public health,                      welfare,    safety 18 and our environment while promoting economic growth, 19 innovation, competitiveness and job creation.                          It must 20 be based on the best                  available      science.      The best 21 available          science.            It    must      allow    for    public 22 participation and an open exchange of ideas.
23                    And like I said, you know,              your rules --
24 you're giving me information based on a set of rules, 25 a permissive set of rules that says this information NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433              WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701          www.nealrgross.com
15 1 we    can    give to you            and    this        information      is    being 2 withheld from you because of                            --  you know,    like I've 3 talked about,            political interference and stuff.                            And 4 if      we    had      --    if    the      agency          gave    us    accurate 5 information,            we'd have          more        --    we would    trust        the 6 agency        more      and    like,        you        know,    Vermont      Yankee 7 wouldn't have in              such a dire position as it                    is now.
8                      Public          participation.                    What          is 9 participate?            What is        the definition of participate?
10 You      know,      participate          is        like    participating          in      a 11 baseball game or, you know, it's                          essentially a sharing 12 of power,          not full power,            but essentially it's                about 13 sharing a power of transparency.                            Participate.        That's 14 what      it    --  I    don't    know        if    they    even  define      what 15 participate is,              you know,        have a clear --          the agency, 16 or whether the president really has a clear definition 17 of what participate                  is.        And participate            should be 18 about sharing the power of transparency.
19                      You know, what is the characterization of 20 the    AOG piping          system?          I    want    to  know.      Does      it 21 comport        to what      Entergy        said it          is,  a  radioactive 22 containment system?                  If  it    isn't,      you know,    does the 23 paperwork          align up to what                  the    RCA says?        I  mean, 24 that's        a very easy question and stuff like that.                                And 25 we really haven't been able to come to the conclusion NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433                WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701              www.nealrgross.com
16 1 that the words indeed match up.                    Just there's a sense 2 of a lot of missing information and stuff like that 3 and that leads to mistrust.
4                    And    we    hope    that      this    doesn't        keep 5 continuing on with the new nukes,                    you know, this game 6 of everybody being comfortable                    following the rules.
7 And a lot of people in              the local area see that the 8 rules are designed to hide information and not to tell 9 the truth or that express the scientific perfection.
10 The idea of the facts and, you know, how do you record 11 the      facts,    either    in    written form or whatever                  and 12 stuff?        You know, will you be like these old guys and 13 not have everything recorded?
14                    And you talked about the off-site dose.
15 I mean, that's what this all is,                  the safety-related --
16 and this business is            all  --  there's a higher calling 17 than off-site dose.              There was an existence of the 18 industry        of    an  economic        endeavor,        and    industrial 19 activity.          I  mean,    do    we  behave      in  a    way    that 20 facilitates        the  existence        of this      activity in            the 21 highest manner and stuff?                And there's a lot of ways 22 that      --  there's    a  lot  of    dimensions        adrift,        as    I 23 explained.
24                    There's the dimension of risk underground, 25 like        you    know,      evaluating          different        modes        of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433            WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701            www.nealrgross.com
17 1 radioactivity underground.                  You guys go by some guess 2 on, you know, what people will be drinking, what water 3 will people be drinking and nobody's ever drank any of 4 this water.          There's      the analysis        of what was          the 5 actual        contamination      in  the  piping?        What was        the 6 actual worst possible contamination in the piping and 7 the length of time that that stuff could be pumped 8 underwater?        You know, what does the regulations allow 9 as far as fuel damage and stuff like that?                          And that 10 gets you right around to the point of,                        well,    what's 11 best      for the    industry might not              be off-site        dose.
12 What's best for the industry might be the consequences 13 of these dimensions of risk.                  You know, well how will 14 the public --          as an example,          if  we discharge at our 15 highest rate with the highest amount of fuel failures 16 we're      going    to  destroy      a  --    you    know,  is  there        a 17 potential of destroying the industry?
18                    Like I talked to your ALARA specialist and 19 stuff and I said, well, you know, okay, you talk about 20 drinking a glass of water for a year and stuff like 21 that.          Did anybody evaluate,              you know,      drinking        a 22 glass        of  water  of    that    3    million      picocuries        per 23 milliliter?          You know,      I asked him,        I said how would 24 that be?        You know,      you can make that case that,                  you 25 know,      somebody could have been drinking that water.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433            WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701          www.nealrgross.com
18 1 It    wasn't an impossible --              I have as much legitimacy 2 as you say in          somebody drinking the amount of water 3 that      you guys      used    and    stuff    like    that.      But      my 4 analysis, even though it's              excessive like yours is,                it 5 would get you to the right question.
6                    You know,      should we --      you know,    maybe we 7 should        have    been    taking      a  harder      look    at      the 8 activities        surrounding Vermont Yankee years ago and 9 stuff.        We should have been harder on ourselves.                          We 10 should have had our regulations end up being harder on 11 ourselves to ask the difficult questions to get to a 12 point where you'd force Vermont Yankee to do the right 13 thing years ago and we would have Vermont Yankee for 14 the      next    20  years    and    stuff    like    that.      I    mean, 15 basically what the agency has said to everybody is 16 we're just fine the way it                  is. Our regulations are 17 just      fine    the  way    it  is    and    the    results      of    our 18 regulatory oversight is              acceptable        to use --      to lose 19 for Vermont Yankee.              Well,  you know,        I don't know if 20 that's a correct way of looking at things.
21                    Again,    on approving regulations at your 22 blog Web site, the White House issued a memorandum --
23 a    company      --  the    orders      that    direct      agencies        to 24 develop plans for making information concerning their 25 regulatory          compliance        and      activities        accessible, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433            WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701          www.nealrgross.com
19 1 downloadable and searchable.
2                    I  mean,    we never got            the ground        level 3 information on what was going on with the OAG system.
4 You know,        for all of the activities                  around Vermont 5 Yankee,        you know,    your inspection activities,                    which 6 you      documented,      has    been    extraordinarily            thin      and 7 lacking science and engineering as far as what we can 8 see.        Yes,  you followed the rules right off a cliff 9 and that's what we think is                the problem.
10                    We don't think this is limited to Vermont.
11 This isn't        a Vermont Yankee problem.                  This isn't        the 12 wild eyes around Vermont Yankee.                      It  isn't    the crazy 13 northeastern people like I've heard the agency talk 14 about.        You know, that maybe it's          the northeast people 15 or whatever, a little            bit on the wild side.              You know, 16 we'll save nuclear power and it                    will be a southern-17 based endeavor or whatever.                    Just it's          amazing the 18 stuff that's going on around here as far as what our 19 thoughts about regulation are                  --  regulation is.
20                    So we didn't think        --  as I said, we didn't 21 think we get enough information to give us a feeling 22 of comfortableness around Vermont Yankee.                          And like I 23 said, you think this is a northeast problem.                          You just 24 wait until another plant gets into that opportunity 25 where you're sitting on the edge of being a safety-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433            WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701            www.nealrgross.com
20 1 related          and    then    you    guys    are    dancing  around        the 2  rules,        talking about the rules                and all    that sort of 3 stuff.        You think this is          a northeast problem.          You're 4  crazy.          It'll    be anywhere in        the country.        You just 5  give people the opportunity to listen                          to you people 6  yapping about rules and self-protection of these rules 7  and stuff like that and this could happen anywhere in 8 the United States.                And it's      not a northeast          issue.
9                      And I'd      like to close with thanking you 10  for giving me this opportunity to talk.                          And I'm one 11  of the few people that understands how privileged --
12  well,      I'm not one of the only few.                    There's a lot of 13  people.            But  I mean,      we    are  very privileged          to be 14  living in          the United States and having the opportunity 15  to --      for a person like me to be talking to an agency 16  like you and I'm very grateful                        to be living in          the 17  United States.              Thank you very much.
18                        MR. QUAY:      Thank you,        Mr. Mulligan.
19                        At this time does any staff            member here at 20  headquarters have any question for Mr.                        Mulligan?
21                        (No audible response.)
22                        MR. QUAY:    Okay.      Seeing none,      what about 23  the region?
24                        MR. SETZER:          Yes,      I  appreciate        the 25  presentation.              No questions.          Thank you.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433                WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701        www.nealrgross.com
21 1                    MR. QUAY:      Okay. I know you're hooked on 2  their,      Tanya. Do you have any questions?
3                    MS. MENSAH:        No questions.            Thank you.
4                      COURT REPORTER:          Could the previous male 5  speaker please          identify himself?            Not Mr.        Quay.
6                    MR. QUAY:      It  was Tom Setzer.
7                      COURT REPORTER:          Thank you.
8                    MR. QUAY:      Okay. Before      I    conclude          the 9  meeting        I want    to ask if        any of    the members            of the 10  public have joined the phone call.                        I didn't hear any 11  beeps,        but I'm going to give them an opportunity to 12  identify themselves              if    they have.
13                    MR. DeVINCENTIS:        Yes,    this      is  --  Entergy 14  Nuclear Operations            is  on the call,        Jim DeVincentis.
15                    MR. QUAY:      Okay. Thank you,          Jim.
16                    I don't hear any members of the public,                            so 17  before I conclude the meeting --                  I'm going to go ahead 18  and conclude the meeting because we have no members of 19  the public on.
20                    Mr. Mulligan, thank you for taking time to 21  provide the NRC staff with clarifying information on 22  the petition you submitted.
23                    Before we close,            however,        I    want to ask 24  the      court    reporter        if    he  needs        any      additional 25  information for the meeting transcript.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433              WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701              www.nealrgross.com
22 1                COURT REPORTER:          Good morning.
2                MR. QUAY:      Good morning.
3                COURT REPORTER:          No,    I have no questions 4 at this time.
5                MR. QUAY:      Okay.      Thank you.
6                COURT REPORTER:          Thank you.
7                MR. QUAY:      With      that,    this  meeting        is 8 concluded      and  we    will    be    terminating      the      phone 9 connection.
10                  (Whereupon, the interview was concluded at 11  11:02 a.m.)
12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433          WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701        www.nealrgross.com
CERTIFICATE This is    to certify that the attached proceedings
*: before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in    the matter of:                    Vermont Yankee Name of Proceeding:          10 CFR 2.206 Petition of Michael Mulligan Docket Number:                50-271 Location:                      (teleconference) were      held  as herein        appears,      and that    this  is      the original transcript thereof for the file                    of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter        reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript        is    a  true    and    accurate      record    of      the foregoing proceedings.
0f      irj-AReporter Neal R.      Gross & Co.,    Inc.
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433              WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701        www.nealrgross.com}}

Latest revision as of 10:12, 6 December 2019

Transcript of 10 CFR 2.206 Petition Re Vermont Yankee, Teleconference: March 2, 2011, Pages 1-22
ML110680070
Person / Time
Site: Vermont Yankee Entergy icon.png
Issue date: 03/02/2011
From:
NRC/OCM
To:
References
NRC-759, G20110050, OEDO-2011-0061
Download: ML110680070 (24)
v • d • e


Text

Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

Title:

10 CFR 2.206 Petition RE Vermont Yankee Docket Number: 50-271 Location: (telephone conference)

Date: Wednesday, March 2, 2011 Work Order No.: NRC-759 Pages 1-22 ORIGINAL NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.

Court Reporters and Transcribers 1323 Rhode Island Avenue, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20005 (202) 234-4433

1 1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 3 +++++

4 PETITION REVIEW BOARD 5- ------------------------- x 6 IN THE MATTER OF:

7 VERMONT YANKEE 10 CFR Docket No. 50-271 8 2.206 PETITION FROM 9 MICHAEL MULLIGAN 10 -------------------------x 11 Wednesday, 12 March 2, 2011 13 The above-entitled matter convened via 14 teleconference, pursuant to notice, at 10:30 a.m.

15 PRESENT:

16 THEODORE R. QUAY, Chairman, Petition Review Board 17 MICHAEL MULLIGAN, Petitioner 18 DAVID ALLEY, Division of Component Integrity 19 MERRILEE BANIC, NRR 20 JAMES DEVINCENTIS, Entergy Nuclear 21 JAMES S. KIM, Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation 22 (NRR) 23 TANYA MENSAH, NRR 24 NANCY SALGADO, NRR 25 THOMAS SETZER, Region I, NRC NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

2 1 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 2 10:00 a.m.

3 MR. KIM: Okay. Good morning. I'd like 4 to thank everybody for attending this meeting. My 5 name is James Kim and I am the Vermont Yankee project 6 manager.

7 We are here today to allow the Petitioner, 8 Mr. Michael Mulligan, to address the Petition Review 9 Board regarding 2.206 petition dated January 18, 2011.

10 I'm the petition manager for the petition. The 11 Petition Review Board chairman is Ted Quay. As part 12 of the Petition Review Board's review of this petition 13 Mr. Michael Mulligan has requested this opportunity to 14 address the Petition Review Board.

15 This meeting is scheduled from 10:30 to 16 11:30 a.m. The meeting is being recorded by the NRC 17 Operations Center and will be transcribed by a court 18 reporter. The transcript will become a supplement to 19 the petition. The transcript will also be made 20 publicly available.

21 I'd like to open this meeting with 22 introductions. As you go around the room, please be 23 sure to clearly state your name, your position and the 24 office that you work for within the NRC for the 25 record. I'll start off.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com v

3 1 This is James Kim. I'm a project manager 2 for the Division of Operating Reactor Licensing in 3 NRR.

4 MS. SALGADO: This is Nancy Salgado. I'm 5 the branch chief in the Division of Operating Reactor 6 Licensing, NRR>

7 MS. BANIC: Merrilee Banic, Generic 8 Communications Branch, NRR.

9 MR. ALLEY: Dave Alley, senior materials 10 engineer, Division of Component Integrity.

11 MR. QUAY: Ted Quay, deputy director, 12 Division of Policy and Rulemaking, NRR.

13 MR. KIM: At this time are there any NRC 14 participants from headquarters on the phone?

15 MS. MENSAH: Tanya Mensa, 2.206 16 coordinator, NRR.

17 MR. KIM: Are there any NRC participants 18 from the regional office on the phone?

19 MR. SETZER: Hi, good morning. This is 20 Tom Setzer, senior project engineer for Region I, NRC.

21 MR. KIM: Are there any representatives 22 for the licensee on the phone?

23 (No audible response.)

24 MR. KIM: Okay. Mr. Mulligan, would you 25 please introduce yourself for the record?

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

4 1 MR. MULLIGAN: I'm Mike Mulligan and I 2 live about two miles from Vermont Yankee. Thank you.

3 MR. KIM: Are there any other interested 4 members of the public on the phone?

5 (No audible response.)

6 MR. KIM: There is none. I'd like to 7 emphasize that we each need to speak clearly and 8 loudly to make sure that the court reporter can 9 accurately transcribe this meeting. If you do have 10 something that you'd like to say, please first state 11 your name for the record.

12 For those dialing into the meeting, please 13 remember to mute your phone to minimize any background 14 noise or distractions. If you do not have a mute 15 button, this can be done by pressing keys star six.

16 To un-mute, press the star six keys again. Thank you.

17 At this time I turn it over to the PRB 18 chairman, Ted Quay.

19 MR. QUAY: Good morning. Welcome to this 20 meeting regarding the 2.206 petition submitted by Mr.

21 Mulligan. I'd like to first share some background on 22 our process.

23 Section 2.206 of Title 10 of the Code of 24 Federal Regulations describes the petition process, 25 the primary mechanism for the public to request NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

5 1 enforcement action by the NRC in a public process.

2 This process permits anyone to petition NRC to take 3 enforcement-type action related to NRC licensees or 4 licensed activities. Depending on the results of its 5 evaluation, NRC could modify, suspend or revoke an 6 NRC-issued license, or take any other appropriate 7 enforcement action to resolve a problem.

8 The NRC staff guidance for the disposition 9 of 2.206 petition requests is in Management Directive 10 8.11, which is publicly available.

12 The purpose of today's meeting is to give 12 the Petitioner and opportunity to provide any 13 additional explanation or support for the petition 14 before the Petition Review Board's final consideration 15 and recommendation.

16 This meeting is not a hearing, nor is it 17 an opportunity for the Petitioner to question or 18 examine the Petition Review Board on the merits or the 19 issues presented in the petition request.

20 No decision regarding the merits of this 21 petition will be made at this meeting.

22 Following this meeting the Petition Review 23 Board will conduct its internal deliberations. The 24 outcome of this internal meeting will be discussed 25 with the Petitioner.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

6 1 The Petition Review Board typically 2 consists of a chairman, usually a manager at the 3 senior executive service level at the NRC and has a 4 petition manager and a Petition Review Board 5 coordinator. Other members of the Board are 6 determined by the NRC staff based on the content of 7 the information in the petition request.

8 At this time I would like to introduce the 9 Board. I am Ted Quay, the Petition Review Board 10 chairman. James Kim is the petition manager for the 11 petition under discussion today. Tanya Mensah is the 12 Office of Petition Review Board coordinator. Our 13 technical staff includes Dave Alley from the Office of 14 Nuclear Reactor Regulations Piping and NBE Branch, 15 Thomas Setzer from NRC Region I's Division of Reactor 16 Projects.

17 As described in our process, the NRC staff 18 may ask clarifying questions in order to better 19 understand the Petitioner's presentation and to reach 20 a reasoned decision whether to accept to reject the 21 Petitioner's request for review under the 2.206 22 process.

23 I would like to summarize the scope of the 24 petition under consideration and the NRC activities to 25 date. On January 18th, 2011 Mr. Mulligan submitted to NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

7 1 the NRC a petition under 2.206 concerning the 2 inspection activities associated with the advanced 3 off-gas referred to as AOG, piping tritium leak and 4 its root cause analysis. We may refer to it as RCA of 5 the Vermont Yankee Nuclear Power Station.

6 In this petition request Mr. Mulligan: (1) 7 requests that Vermont Yankee be immediately shut down 8 and that Entergy be prohibited from owning nuclear 9 power plants; (2) requested an Extent of Conditions 10 with Entergy providing the NRC with inaccurate 11 information, false and incomplete documents and any 12 falsifications to the NRC; (3) requested that the NRC 13 look into if Entergy gave new false testimony to any 14 proceeding with the State of Vermont; (4) requested an 15 Office of Inspector General investigation concerning 16 recent falsification and incomplete NRC inspections; 17 (5) requested an Extent of Conditions with any 18 falsified and incomplete licensing basis updated final 19 safety analysis report or any plant engineering and 20 plant designs that protect the public and the 21 environment of the people surrounding Vermont Yankee; 22 (6) requested a national formal NRC Code and 23 Regulations on RCA and the quality of RCA; (7) 24 requested to have a discussion with top NRC official 25 in charge or the most knowledgeable on RCA; (8) stated NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

8 1 that Entergy's corrective actions program is keyed off 2 the RCA or root cause evaluation, also referred to as 3 RCE, and asserts that Entergy's corrective action 4 program is corrupted and that they don't address why 5 the tritium leak occurred; (9) has requested that the 6 NRC be prohibited from ever using the term "it is 7 before the ROP overhaul and it is of no concern to the 8 NRC;" and finally, (10) stated in the case of OIG 9 involvement it should be an open NRC OIG process, 10 mostly the investigation should be accurate swift and 11 open.

12 Allow me to discuss the NRC activities to 13 date.

14 On January 21st, 2011 you requested to 15 address the Petition Review Board to provide 16 supplemental information for the Board's consideration 17 prior to the PRB's internal meeting to make an 18 additional recommendation.

19 The PRB met on January 24th, 2011 and 20 denied your request for immediate action to 21 immediately shut down Vermont Yankee. The PRB 22 determined there was no immediate safety concern to 23 the plant or to the public health and safety. The 24 system is non-safety related and the tritium leak 25 amounted to approximately less then one millirem NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

9 1 exposure to the public. No drinking water sources 2 were impacted. Therefore, the PRB denied the request 3 to immediately shut down Vermont Yankee.

4 On January 25th, 2011 you were informed of 5 the PRB's decision on the immediate action.

6 On February 3rd, 2011 you addressed the 7 Petition Review Board by a teleconference and provided 8 additional information in support of your petition.

9 On February 10th, 2011 the PRB met 10 internally to make an initial recommendation on your 11 petition. The Petition Review Board's initial 12 recommendation was not to accept your petition. For 13 your request Nos. 1, 2, 3, 5 and 8 the Petition Review 14 Board determined your petition did not meet the 15 criteria for review because the petition failed to 16 provide sufficient facts to warrant further inquiry.

17 For your request Nos. 4, 6, 7, 9 and 10 the Petition 18 Review Board determined that these were outside the 19 scope of the 2.206 process, however, the petition has 20 been forwarded to the NRC OIG per your request.

21 On February 15th, 2011 you were informed 22 of the PRB's initial recommendation and you requested 23 another opportunity to address the Petition Review 24 Board to provide any comments to the PRB's initial 25 recommendation and additional information in support NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

10 1 of your petition.

2 As a reminder for the phone participants, 3 please identify yourself if you make any remarks as 4 this will help us in the preparation of the meeting 5 transcript that will be made publicly available.

6 Thank you.

7 And at this point, Mr. Mulligan, I'll turn 8 it over to you.

9 MR. MULLIGAN: I essentially got a short 10 blurb, a couple of paragraphs, and basically what it 11 said was the PRB initial recommendation was to reject 12 your petition because your petition did not meet the 13 criteria for review. Some of your requested actions 14 did not meet the criteria for review because the 15 petition failed to provide sufficient facts to warrant 16 further inquiry and other requested actions were not 17 in the scope of the 2.206 process, however the 18 petition was forwarded to the OIG. So I never got the 19 specifics on which numbers were which that you just 20 identified. Anyways --

21 MR. QUAY: Mr. Mulligan?

22 MR. MULLIGAN: Yes.

23 MR. QUAY: Would it be helpful if I repeat 24 which number requests failed to provide sufficient 25 facts and others which were outside the scope?

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com w

11 1 MR. MULLIGAN: Could you just identify the 2 ones that failed to provide sufficient information?

3 MR. QUAY: Sure. Request No. 1, request 4 No. 2, request No. 3, request No. 5 and request No. 8.

5 MR. MULLIGAN: Oh, I thought you were 6 going to read them to me, but that's all right. We 7 really don't need to do that. I'll pick it up when 8 they read the --

9 MR. QUAY: You can go back to the 10 transcript. Or if you're having a problem with the 11 transcript, I sure you can call us and we can give 12 them back to you again. If you'd like to, I can read 13 them to you.

14 MR. MULLIGAN: Oh, that's okay. That's 15 okay. We can go on.

16 MR. QUAY: Okay.

17 MR. MULLIGAN: Thank you. Basically, I 18 mean, the problem is, I mean, over this tritium issue.

19 We generally have issues with the quality of the 20 inspection activities around Vermont Yankee. I know 21 you're following the rules and stuff, but like I've 22 been saying for many years now, you know, following 23 the rules doesn't necessarily mean you're doing good.

24 I mean, you know, we think you owe --

25 basically Entergy said in their RCA that the tritium NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

12 1 -- a tunnel was a radioactive containment barrier and 2 we want to know basically what the engineering 3 justification is for that statement. And basically 4 that revolves around honest and complete information 5 to the public on what was going on here. You lost a 6 plant over it. And so, I mean, that's what this all 7 revolves around. We know you're following the 8 procedures on inspecting Vermont Yankee but we don't 9 think we've come to the -- we don't get the 10 appropriate information on it. The rules are designed 11 to hide information and not disclose information to 12 the public.

13 That's what we basically think was the 14 reason why you lost Vermont Yankee. It's not 15 inherently because the plant wasn't capable of being 16 relicensed. It was because of generally mistrust, 17 mistrustful communications and stuff like that. And 18 we thought that the agency would be the one that would 19 get to the bottom of a lot of this mistrustful 20 communication. You know, it's almost like you 21 regulate acceptably misinformation or incomplete 22 information. And that's just unbelievable that this 23 is happening.

24 So like I said, you know, I thought that 25 this should have -- there was very little meat in the NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

13 1 inspection findings all throughout the tritium issue 2 and it never got down to clearly stating what were the 3 scientific characterizations of the AOG piping. You 4 know, engineering is supposed to be science and it's 5 supposed to be faith -- fact-based and not supposed to 6 be essentially Entergy guesses that it's a radioactive 7 containment barrier.

8 So this is all is around honesty and 9 truthfulness and stuff. You know, the end of this 10 essentially, you know, when you start building a $5 11 billion new plant the question's going to be asked 12 eventually. There's going to be a disgruntled 13 employee. He's going to come up with pictures or his 14 cell phone videos of something going wrong and stuff.

15 And the question is are you going to use the rules to 16 expose everything and make yourselves better and cast 17 away the inaccuracies and, you know, rededicate 18 yourself in building a new plant appropriately and 19 stuff? I mean, that's what the question is really, is 20 are you prepared to build a new plant?

21 And what we can see, what I can see in the 22 2.206 process is you're just using rules to obfuscate 23 what's going on. You're not using the rules to give 24 the community a sense of assurance, you know? These 25 are the facts. These are what we got. This is what NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

14 1 we have down in our paperwork.

2 You know, and this recommendation to me, 3 you know, the PRB, again you really didn't give me the 4 reason why. You just said, you know, this No. 1, 2, 5 3, later on, 6, 8, 9, you know, are this way. You 6 didn't really give me the reasons why they were 7 rejected and stuff. And that's another problem that, 8 you know, the agency doesn't seem to want to go by 9 science.

10 We read on your Web site the president 11 executive order, improving regulation and regulatory 12 review. By authority vested in me as President of the 13 United States and the laws of the United States of 14 America and in order to improve regulations and 15 regulatory review it is hereby ordered as follows:

16 General principles and regulations and our regulatory 17 system are to protect public health, welfare, safety 18 and our environment while promoting economic growth, 19 innovation, competitiveness and job creation. It must 20 be based on the best available science. The best 21 available science. It must allow for public 22 participation and an open exchange of ideas.

23 And like I said, you know, your rules --

24 you're giving me information based on a set of rules, 25 a permissive set of rules that says this information NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

15 1 we can give to you and this information is being 2 withheld from you because of -- you know, like I've 3 talked about, political interference and stuff. And 4 if we had -- if the agency gave us accurate 5 information, we'd have more -- we would trust the 6 agency more and like, you know, Vermont Yankee 7 wouldn't have in such a dire position as it is now.

8 Public participation. What is 9 participate? What is the definition of participate?

10 You know, participate is like participating in a 11 baseball game or, you know, it's essentially a sharing 12 of power, not full power, but essentially it's about 13 sharing a power of transparency. Participate. That's 14 what it -- I don't know if they even define what 15 participate is, you know, have a clear -- the agency, 16 or whether the president really has a clear definition 17 of what participate is. And participate should be 18 about sharing the power of transparency.

19 You know, what is the characterization of 20 the AOG piping system? I want to know. Does it 21 comport to what Entergy said it is, a radioactive 22 containment system? If it isn't, you know, does the 23 paperwork align up to what the RCA says? I mean, 24 that's a very easy question and stuff like that. And 25 we really haven't been able to come to the conclusion NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

16 1 that the words indeed match up. Just there's a sense 2 of a lot of missing information and stuff like that 3 and that leads to mistrust.

4 And we hope that this doesn't keep 5 continuing on with the new nukes, you know, this game 6 of everybody being comfortable following the rules.

7 And a lot of people in the local area see that the 8 rules are designed to hide information and not to tell 9 the truth or that express the scientific perfection.

10 The idea of the facts and, you know, how do you record 11 the facts, either in written form or whatever and 12 stuff? You know, will you be like these old guys and 13 not have everything recorded?

14 And you talked about the off-site dose.

15 I mean, that's what this all is, the safety-related --

16 and this business is all -- there's a higher calling 17 than off-site dose. There was an existence of the 18 industry of an economic endeavor, and industrial 19 activity. I mean, do we behave in a way that 20 facilitates the existence of this activity in the 21 highest manner and stuff? And there's a lot of ways 22 that -- there's a lot of dimensions adrift, as I 23 explained.

24 There's the dimension of risk underground, 25 like you know, evaluating different modes of NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

17 1 radioactivity underground. You guys go by some guess 2 on, you know, what people will be drinking, what water 3 will people be drinking and nobody's ever drank any of 4 this water. There's the analysis of what was the 5 actual contamination in the piping? What was the 6 actual worst possible contamination in the piping and 7 the length of time that that stuff could be pumped 8 underwater? You know, what does the regulations allow 9 as far as fuel damage and stuff like that? And that 10 gets you right around to the point of, well, what's 11 best for the industry might not be off-site dose.

12 What's best for the industry might be the consequences 13 of these dimensions of risk. You know, well how will 14 the public -- as an example, if we discharge at our 15 highest rate with the highest amount of fuel failures 16 we're going to destroy a -- you know, is there a 17 potential of destroying the industry?

18 Like I talked to your ALARA specialist and 19 stuff and I said, well, you know, okay, you talk about 20 drinking a glass of water for a year and stuff like 21 that. Did anybody evaluate, you know, drinking a 22 glass of water of that 3 million picocuries per 23 milliliter? You know, I asked him, I said how would 24 that be? You know, you can make that case that, you 25 know, somebody could have been drinking that water.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

18 1 It wasn't an impossible -- I have as much legitimacy 2 as you say in somebody drinking the amount of water 3 that you guys used and stuff like that. But my 4 analysis, even though it's excessive like yours is, it 5 would get you to the right question.

6 You know, should we -- you know, maybe we 7 should have been taking a harder look at the 8 activities surrounding Vermont Yankee years ago and 9 stuff. We should have been harder on ourselves. We 10 should have had our regulations end up being harder on 11 ourselves to ask the difficult questions to get to a 12 point where you'd force Vermont Yankee to do the right 13 thing years ago and we would have Vermont Yankee for 14 the next 20 years and stuff like that. I mean, 15 basically what the agency has said to everybody is 16 we're just fine the way it is. Our regulations are 17 just fine the way it is and the results of our 18 regulatory oversight is acceptable to use -- to lose 19 for Vermont Yankee. Well, you know, I don't know if 20 that's a correct way of looking at things.

21 Again, on approving regulations at your 22 blog Web site, the White House issued a memorandum --

23 a company -- the orders that direct agencies to 24 develop plans for making information concerning their 25 regulatory compliance and activities accessible, NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

19 1 downloadable and searchable.

2 I mean, we never got the ground level 3 information on what was going on with the OAG system.

4 You know, for all of the activities around Vermont 5 Yankee, you know, your inspection activities, which 6 you documented, has been extraordinarily thin and 7 lacking science and engineering as far as what we can 8 see. Yes, you followed the rules right off a cliff 9 and that's what we think is the problem.

10 We don't think this is limited to Vermont.

11 This isn't a Vermont Yankee problem. This isn't the 12 wild eyes around Vermont Yankee. It isn't the crazy 13 northeastern people like I've heard the agency talk 14 about. You know, that maybe it's the northeast people 15 or whatever, a little bit on the wild side. You know, 16 we'll save nuclear power and it will be a southern-17 based endeavor or whatever. Just it's amazing the 18 stuff that's going on around here as far as what our 19 thoughts about regulation are -- regulation is.

20 So we didn't think -- as I said, we didn't 21 think we get enough information to give us a feeling 22 of comfortableness around Vermont Yankee. And like I 23 said, you think this is a northeast problem. You just 24 wait until another plant gets into that opportunity 25 where you're sitting on the edge of being a safety-NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

20 1 related and then you guys are dancing around the 2 rules, talking about the rules and all that sort of 3 stuff. You think this is a northeast problem. You're 4 crazy. It'll be anywhere in the country. You just 5 give people the opportunity to listen to you people 6 yapping about rules and self-protection of these rules 7 and stuff like that and this could happen anywhere in 8 the United States. And it's not a northeast issue.

9 And I'd like to close with thanking you 10 for giving me this opportunity to talk. And I'm one 11 of the few people that understands how privileged --

12 well, I'm not one of the only few. There's a lot of 13 people. But I mean, we are very privileged to be 14 living in the United States and having the opportunity 15 to -- for a person like me to be talking to an agency 16 like you and I'm very grateful to be living in the 17 United States. Thank you very much.

18 MR. QUAY: Thank you, Mr. Mulligan.

19 At this time does any staff member here at 20 headquarters have any question for Mr. Mulligan?

21 (No audible response.)

22 MR. QUAY: Okay. Seeing none, what about 23 the region?

24 MR. SETZER: Yes, I appreciate the 25 presentation. No questions. Thank you.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

21 1 MR. QUAY: Okay. I know you're hooked on 2 their, Tanya. Do you have any questions?

3 MS. MENSAH: No questions. Thank you.

4 COURT REPORTER: Could the previous male 5 speaker please identify himself? Not Mr. Quay.

6 MR. QUAY: It was Tom Setzer.

7 COURT REPORTER: Thank you.

8 MR. QUAY: Okay. Before I conclude the 9 meeting I want to ask if any of the members of the 10 public have joined the phone call. I didn't hear any 11 beeps, but I'm going to give them an opportunity to 12 identify themselves if they have.

13 MR. DeVINCENTIS: Yes, this is -- Entergy 14 Nuclear Operations is on the call, Jim DeVincentis.

15 MR. QUAY: Okay. Thank you, Jim.

16 I don't hear any members of the public, so 17 before I conclude the meeting -- I'm going to go ahead 18 and conclude the meeting because we have no members of 19 the public on.

20 Mr. Mulligan, thank you for taking time to 21 provide the NRC staff with clarifying information on 22 the petition you submitted.

23 Before we close, however, I want to ask 24 the court reporter if he needs any additional 25 information for the meeting transcript.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

22 1 COURT REPORTER: Good morning.

2 MR. QUAY: Good morning.

3 COURT REPORTER: No, I have no questions 4 at this time.

5 MR. QUAY: Okay. Thank you.

6 COURT REPORTER: Thank you.

7 MR. QUAY: With that, this meeting is 8 concluded and we will be terminating the phone 9 connection.

10 (Whereupon, the interview was concluded at 11 11:02 a.m.)

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

CERTIFICATE This is to certify that the attached proceedings

  • before the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission in the matter of: Vermont Yankee Name of Proceeding: 10 CFR 2.206 Petition of Michael Mulligan Docket Number: 50-271 Location: (teleconference) were held as herein appears, and that this is the original transcript thereof for the file of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission taken by me and, thereafter reduced to typewriting by me or under the direction of the court reporting company, and that the transcript is a true and accurate record of the foregoing proceedings.

0f irj-AReporter Neal R. Gross & Co., Inc.

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com

Retrieved from "https://kanterella.com/w/index.php?title=ML110680070&oldid=2241825"