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Transcript of the Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards - Evinci Design Subcommittee Meeting, February 28, 2023, Pages 1-71 (Open)
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Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION

Title:

Advisory Committee on reactor Safeguards eVinci Design Subcommittee Open Session Docket Number:

(n/a)

Location:

teleconference Date:

Tuesday, February 28, 2023 Work Order No.:

NRC-2288 Pages 1-50 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.

Court Reporters and Transcribers 1716 14th Street, N.W.

Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 234-4433

NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.

(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1

1 2

3 DISCLAIMER 4

5 6

UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSIONS 7

ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS 8

9 10 The contents of this transcript of the 11 proceeding of the United States Nuclear Regulatory 12 Commission Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards, 13 as reported herein, is a record of the discussions 14 recorded at the meeting.

15 16 This transcript has not been reviewed, 17 corrected, and edited, and it may contain 18 inaccuracies.

19 20 21 22 23

1 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1

NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2

+ + + + +

3 ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS 4

(ACRS) 5

+ + + + +

6 eVINCI SUBCOMMITTEE 7

+ + + + +

8 OPEN SESSION 9

+ + + + +

10 TUESDAY 11 FEBRUARY 28, 2023 12

+ + + + +

13 The Subcommittee met via Teleconference, 14 at 1:00 p.m. EST, Walter L. Kirchner, Chair, presiding.

15 16 COMMITTEE MEMBERS:

17 WALTER L. KIRCHNER, Chair 18 RONALD G. BALLINGER, Member 19 VICKI M. BIER, Member 20 CHARLES H. BROWN, JR., Member 21 VESNA B. DIMITRIJEVIC, Member 22 GREGORY H. HALNON, Member 23 JOSE MARCH-LEUBA, Member 24 DAVID A. PETTI, Member 25

2 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com JOY L. REMPE, Member 1

MATTHEW W. SUNSERI, Member 2

3 ACRS CONSULTANTS:

4 DENNIS BLEY 5

STEPHEN SCHULTZ 6

7 DESIGNATED FEDERAL OFFICIAL:

8 CHRISTOPHER BROWN 9

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

3 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com TABLE OF CONTENTS 1

PAGE 2

Opening Remarks and Objectives 4

3 Staff Opening Remarks 7

4 Overview 12 5

Public Comments 50 6

7 8

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

4 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1

(1:00 p.m.)

2 CHAIR KIRCHNER: It's 1:00 Eastern Time, 3

and this meeting will now come to order.

4 This is a meeting of the eVinci Design 5

Subcommittee of the Advisory Committee on reactor 6

Safeguards.

7 I am Walt Kirchner, Chairman of today's 8

Subcommittee meeting. ACRS members in attendance are 9

Charles Brown, Jose March-Leuba, Joy Rempe, Dave Petti, 10 Ron Ballinger, and I think we have -- and Greg Halnon 11 are present here. I believe we have Vesna Dimitrijevic 12 and Vicki Bier on virtual connection. And Matt 13 Sunseri. Our consultants, Dennis Bley and Stephen 14 Schultz, are also present.

15 Christopher Brown of the ACRS staff is the 16 Designated Federal Official for this meeting.

17 During today's meeting, the Subcommittee 18 will receive an overview of the eVinci Micro Reactor 19 Design. The Subcommittee will hear presentations by 20 and hold discussions with the NRC staff, Westinghouse 21 representatives, and other interested persons 22 regarding this matter.

23 Part of the presentations by the Applicant 24 and the NRC may be closed in order to discuss information 25

5 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com that is proprietary to the licensee and its contractors 1

pursuant to 5 U.S.C. 552 Bravo, Charlie, four.

2 Attendance at the meeting that deals with 3

such information will be limited to NRC staff and its 4

consultants,

WEC, and those individuals and 5

organizations who have entered into an appropriate 6

confidentiality agreement with them. Consequently, 7

we will need to confirm that we have only eligible 8

observers and participants in the closed part of the 9

meeting.

10 The rules for participation in all ACRS 11 meetings, including today's, were announced in the 12 Federal Register on June 13th, 2019. The ACRS section 13 of the U.S. NRC public website provides our charter, 14 bylaws, agendas, letter reports, and full transcripts 15 of all full and subcommittee meetings, including slides 16 presented there.

17 The meeting notice and agenda for this 18 meeting were posted there. We have received no written 19 statements or requests to make an oral statement from 20 the public.

21 The Subcommittee will gather information, 22 analyze relevant issues and facts, and formulate 23 proposed positions and actions, as appropriate, for 24 deliberation by the full Committee.

25

6 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com The rules for participation in today's 1

meeting have been announced as part of the notice of 2

this meeting previously published in the Federal 3

Register. A transcript of the meeting is being kept 4

and will be made available as stated in the Federal 5

Register notice.

6 Today's meeting is being held in person 7

and over Microsoft Teams for ACRS staff and members, 8

NRC staff, and the licensee attendees. There is also 9

a telephone bridge line and an MS Teams link allowing 10 participation of the public.

11 When addressing the Subcommittee, the 12 participants should first identify themselves and then 13 speak with sufficient clarity and volume so that they 14 may be readily heard.

15 When not speaking, we request that 16 participants mute your computer microphone or phone 17 by pressing star six. Again, please, those here in 18 the room, please mute your laptop.

19 We will now proceed with the meeting, and 20 I'd like to start by calling on Mike Wentzel, the Branch 21 Chief from NRR.

22 Mike, good afternoon. Go ahead.

23 MR.

WENTZEL:

Good afternoon, Dr.

24 Kirchner, and thank you for the opportunity to be here 25

7 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com today.

1 My name is Mike Wentzel, and I am Chief 2

of Advanced Reactor Licensing Branch Number 2 in the 3

Division of Advanced Reactors and Non-Power Production 4

and Utilization Facilities, also referred to as DANU.

5 And, as you know, we're in the Office of Nuclear Reactor 6

Regulations.

7 So I'd like to talk today a little bit about 8

the staff's focus on preapplication activities. In 9

accordance with the advanced reactor policy statement, 10 the NRC encourages early interaction with advanced 11 reactor developers and prospective applicants.

12 While preapplication interactions are not 13 unique to advanced reactors, the NRC recognizes that 14 such interactions may be particularly beneficial for 15 advanced reactor developers, because they allow the 16 early identification of resolution of technical and 17 policy issues that could affect licensing.

18 In the staff's draft White Paper entitled 19 Preapplication Engagement to Optimize Advanced Reactor 20 Application Reviews that was issued in 2021, the NRC 21 staff proposed a set of preapplication activities that, 22 if fully executed, will enable the staff to offer more 23 predictable and potentially shorter schedules and other 24 benefits during the review of a license application.

25

8 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com The White Paper states that if an advanced 1

reactor applicant completes preapplication 2

interactions on certain topics proposed by the staff 3

that we would anticipate a review schedule that is 4

tentatively six months shorter than the NRC's generic 5

milestone schedules, depending on the complexity of 6

the design and other issues associated with the work.

7 The staff can then compare the list of 8

preapplication topics in the White Paper against those 9

that are completed and anticipated submittals that --

10 from vendors to evaluate the effectiveness of our 11 preapplication interactions.

12 Another thing that we're doing to ensure 13 effective and efficient preapplication reviews is 14 implementing a core team approach. We anticipate that 15 the core team that is created for the preapplication 16 phase will be the same that is assigned to future license 17 applications.

18 In this

approach, the overall 19 responsibility for the staff review lies within our 20 division referred to as DANU. The core team review 21 includes a project manager and technical reviewers from 22 DANU and subject matter experts in other divisions and 23 offices for selected topics.

24 Technical reviewers from within DANU with 25

9 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com significant advanced reactor technology expertise have 1

responsibility for broader portions of the design, 2

including many of the topics that are integral to the 3

reactor design, such as thermal and structural 4

analysis, fuel and core design, and accidents.

5 Some topics that are being reviewed outside 6

the core team include instrumentation and controls, 7

emergency planning, fissile security, and seismic 8

methodology.

9 In the case of eVinci, the core team will 10 work very closely with staff of -- from the Office of 11 Nuclear Materials Safety and Safeguards due to the 12 unique transportation and storage aspects of this 13 particular design.

14 So, again, I'd just like to thank you for 15 the opportunity to be here today, and we continue --

16 we will look forward to continued interactions with 17 the ACRS as the review of the eVinci design progresses.

18 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Thank you, Mike. And now 19 we'll turn to Westinghouse. I think Mike Shaqqo is 20 going to make an introduction for the team. Thank you 21 for being here, by the way, as well.

22 MR. SHAQQO: Yeah. Thank you for the 23 opportunity to be here, and thank you for taking the 24 time to listen to our team as we share with you our 25

10 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com progress with eVinci.

1 Go to the next slide, Anthony.

2 So just jumping into it here, I guess to 3

make sure our team will have the opportunity to share 4

the progress we've made, I'll keep mine short.

5 Again, my name is Mike Shaqqo. I'm the 6

Senior VP for Advanced Reactor Programs with 7

Westinghouse. As you see here, Westinghouse has --

8 and you probably know -- Westinghouse has a very long 9

history of developing and successfully licensing the 10 reactor technologies.

11 We really appreciate the NRC's past effort 12 with our AP1000 and the design certification that we 13 received from the NRC to support deployment. This 14 really has enabled us to deploy AP1000, certainly here 15 in the U.S., but as well as internationally.

16 eVinci, as you see here on the list of our 17 portfolio of reactors, is one of our -- is our smallest 18 reactor technology that we are talking about today.

19 This technology is -- as you'll hear from our team, 20 we're very excited about it. The reason we're excited 21 about it, certainly because of the innovative aspect 22 of it, as well as the advancement the team has made 23 in progressing this technology.

24 But just as important, as you will hear 25

11 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com from our team today, we are excited about this 1

technology because of the broad range of applications 2

that this technology will have. We heard many 3

feedbacks from our customers, potential end users, on 4

how this technology will actually help them achieve 5

their net zero goals. So that really gets us excited 6

and gets our engineers excited as we talk and advance 7

this technology.

8 So, in addition to eVinci, as you see here, 9

we have two other areas that we are focused on as well.

10 Specifically, we are working on -- soon to deploy --

11 our Westinghouse SMR. It's a 300-megawatt electric 12 unit, and it will be based mainly on the advancement 13 and the lessons learned from our AP1000 technology and 14 deployment.

15 In addition, with our innovation team, we 16 have our Lead Fast Reactor, which is in our innovation 17 R&D phase as it is our next generation and gen forward 18 technology that our team is also working on.

19 So, with that said, the focus of this team 20 here today is really solely on eVinci, and which is, 21 as I mentioned, it's one of our key products that we 22 are investing significantly in the development, and 23 I believe -- maybe it's self-serving -- I do believe 24 we have the smartest and the brightest people working 25

12 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com on this technology.

1 So looking forward for this interaction, 2

and looking forward to see where this will take us.

3 And thank you.

4 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Thank you.

5 MR. HALACKNA: All right. Thank you, 6

Mike. So you can see on the screen the agenda we have 7

for today.

8 Oh, yeah. Joe Halackna. I'm Deputy 9

Director for Advanced Reactor Engineering at 10 Westinghouse. I'll lead us through a number of the 11 slides here, and then -- between myself and Anthony.

12 So you can see the agenda. We're going 13 to walk through some of our technology, our design, 14 how we got to this point, what's the market that we're 15 targeting, why we created the product. And, as Mike 16 just mentioned, you know, we had a set of products --

17 reactor products -- in our portfolio, and what sort 18 of differentiates eVinci from those existing products 19 that we have today.

20 All right. So, first and foremost, right, 21 so why are we, you know, designing this -- you know, 22 this technology for this market? And it is a very 23 different market than we have from our past large 24 centralized power facilities, like an AP1000, but we 25

13 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com are seeing a lot of customers that are very interested 1

in different market sizes.

2 So, again, in our case, we're designing 3

towards a 5 megawatt electric plant to really provide 4

a solution to some of the net zero carbon-free energy 5

solutions that customers are seeking and providing 6

energy security, energy resiliency, and really driving 7

that new nuclear demand in the market today.

8 So you can see on the screen a number of 9

our applications that we can deliver this technology 10 to. We're focused, again, on a land-based terrestrial 11 5 megawatt electric plant that primarily will provide 12 electricity but is also capable of providing thermal 13 heat and thermal energy as well.

14 MEMBER BROWN: Can I ask a question?

15 MR. HALACKNA: Yes.

16 MEMBER BROWN: Why did you pick 5 megawatt 17 electric?

18 MR. HALACKNA: So we'll get into that in 19 a little bit, but there is --

20 MEMBER BROWN: If you were going to do it 21 later, just wait.

22 MR. HALACKNA: -- but I think -- so, one, 23 I think it's the market differentiates ourselves, but 24 I think there is a number of constraints, for example, 25

14 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com around being able to passively remove decay heat in 1

terms of -- so there are some technical reasons in 2

addition to the market that we're seeking to deploy 3

to.

4 MEMBER BROWN: Thank you.

5 MEMBER PETTI: Question. How many units 6

do you anticipate on the previous slide, the market?

7 How big is the market? 50? 100? 300?

8 MR. HALACKNA: Good questions. I think 9

-- Mike, do you want to answer the market question?

10 MR. SHAQQO: Sure. The great question is 11

-- I would say we're really being guided by the recent 12 INL study, Idaho National Lab study, that was done about 13 a year and a half ago. And they are projecting this 14 market to be in the thousands -- in the thousands of 15 units of a 5 megawatt or equivalent type microreactors 16 to support and to decarbonize the market sector that 17 INL analyzed.

18 So that's really one of our key reference 19 points, so it's really in thousandths.

20 MEMBER BROWN: Is that worldwide or just 21 U.S.?

22 MR. SHAQQO: It's worldwide. It's 23 globally.

24 MEMBER BROWN: Okay.

25

15 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. SHAQQO: Right.

1 MR. HALACKNA: So, first, I'll start off 2

with what's really driving the technology of eVinci.

3 That's the heat pipe itself. So that's really the 4

technology that makes this unique. For us, it's a game 5

changer in terms of making the -- really, the reactor 6

coolant system, a passive system that's not dependent 7

on a force flow, single pressure boundary, reactor 8

coolant.

9 So heat pipes are, again, a passive thermal 10 transfer device, primarily functioning off of capillary 11 flow, and the difference in pressure and temperatures 12 in -- within the core to our primary heat exchanger.

13 So that really is what separates that, and we have 14 an array of heat pipes within the core, and that --

15 what that enables us to do is those operate in a 16 sub-atmospheric pressure.

17 So that allows our core design also then 18 to be operating at just over atmospheric pressure, which 19 is a real game changer in terms of different failure 20 modes and effects that we have to analyze, all the 21 different design basis events and accidents that go 22 into the safety case for this reactor.

23 So it does very much follow sort of the 24 nuclear battery model. In essence, during normal 25

16 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com operation, there are no moving parts in the core outside 1

of the sodium within each heat pipe, and there is roughly 2

around 800 heat pipes in total within this reactor.

3 So that's really what separates us.

4 Again, it's the low pressure design where, again, as 5

much as possible there is nothing moving within our 6

core, and that really is what excites us about having 7

a solid state reactor that, again, can operate upwards 8

of eight years or more without refueling, and then, 9

again, like a battery can be taken back to the factory, 10 refueled and refurbished, and delivered again.

11 Go to the next slide.

12 All right. So just, really, where did this 13 technology come from? First, going back even before 14 what I have on the slide here, going back to the sixties, 15 heat pipe technology was invented out of Los Alamos 16 National Lab. Through the '80s, it was a big focus 17 of the space reactors. So whether it's SNAP 10A, SP-100 18 programs.

19 From there, Los Alamos and NASA most 20 famously worked on the Kilopower and the KRUSTY test, 21 and that's really when we started to work with Los Alamos 22 in a more commercializable sense on different 23 opportunities there, through the Department of Energy 24 in many cases, to further that technology and really 25

17 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com take it to the commercial market from the focus that 1

had been on space and defense applications.

2 So we've had several different awards 3

through the Office of Nuclear Energy and ARPA-E that 4

really led to us being able to progress the design and 5

do a lot of the yearly technology development within 6

this product, ultimately to show this is demonstrated 7

as a technology that we can take to market and is the 8

right technology readiness levels for us to pursue this 9

product in the licensing that we are currently in the 10 preapplication phase in.

11 So you can see some of our milestones there.

12 We completed -- we have an eVinci laboratory and test 13 facility just outside Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania. We 14 built our first heat pipes in 2020 and have built dozens 15 essentially every year since.

16 Sort of capstoning, we did an electrical 17 demonstration early in 2021. So, basically, 18 electrical silicon carbide heaters to simulate the fuel 19 temperature. So that reached an operating temperature 20 of 800 degrees Celsius, steady state operation. We're 21 continuing to expand upon that facility today to do 22 more transient and more thermal benchmarking of our 23 codes and analyses. And, again, a lot of compatibility 24 testing.

25

18 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com So I mentioned our work in fluidized sodium 1

within each heat pipe. So a lot of sodium compatibility 2

testing, material interactions, to demonstrate the 3

safety and longevity of this design.

4 So, and again, we've had a very robust 5

preapplication phase where we've submitted to date 24 6

technical White Papers as part of our preapplication 7

on a host of topics.

8 And then, lastly there, most importantly, 9

you know, we've built our prototypic heat pipe or what 10 we're planning as our nuclear test reactor that would 11 be demonstrated at Idaho National Lab that we're working 12 as part of the NRIC organization on.

13 So you can see just on the bottom there 14 a timeline as we've progressed, iterated on the early 15 design phases, the different concepts, continued to 16 mature the technology, the integration of these 17 systems, ultimately to the design that we're at today, 18 which is a transportable 5 megawatt electric reactor.

19 MEMBER BROWN: Another question?

20 MR. HALACKNA: Go for it.

21 MEMBER BROWN: You mentioned sodium.

22 Obviously, it's solid. Do you transport it in the solid 23 mode and then heat --

24 MR. HALACKNA: Yes.

25

19 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MEMBER BROWN: -- and then you heat it up 1

2 MR. HALACKNA: Yep. Well --

3 MEMBER BROWN: -- the reactor or without 4

the reactor?

5 MR. HALACKNA: So --

6 MEMBER BROWN: Do you have to have an 7

independent system, is what I'm saying, to put 8

yourselves in service initially?

9 MR. HALACKNA: Right. So right now we 10 will start up without any external heaters.

11 MEMBER BROWN: If I say something that's 12 proprietary, tell me to be quiet.

13 MR. HALACKNA: No worries.

14 MEMBER BROWN: I'm trying to avoid that 15 after reading the paper.

16 MEMBER PETTI: I have a question. Why 17 sodium? Why not another liquid metal? Is there unique 18 about sodium that makes it better as a heat pipe than, 19 say, potassium or NaK or --

20 MR. HALACKNA: Yeah. So it's really --

21 it goes to the power level that we're seeking to get 22 at each heat pipe, which drives which operating 23 temperature we're in, which drives back to really the 24 liquid metal properties, right, between the viscosity 25

20 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com of each heat pipe, the working fluid, the surface 1

tension, so the different materials all drive to the 2

performance factors.

3 So you can look at a number of different 4

curves that analyze the sizing between your vapor and 5

liquid regions and your operating temperatures and --

6 but also having all of those materials actually be 7

compatible to work together.

8 So it's a combination of those things that 9

we did robust sort of trade studies and parametric 10 studies to really find what is the highest TRL of our 11 materials, which ones interact with the rest of the 12 fuel and the core structure all together.

13 But sodium has sort of the best high power 14 properties. Once you go beyond that, you would go into, 15 let's say, something like lithium, which then really 16 requires a much higher temperature, which then takes 17 you back to some of the other core materials that would 18 be challenged.

19 There's a number of different options.

20 We focused on sodium because it has a pretty robust, 21 one, basis in terms (audio interference) designs.

22 CHAIR KIRCHNER: I think there's another 23 reason, too, and that's your power conversion system, 24 that you want a higher temperature and you would --

25

21 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. HALACKNA: Absolutely. Yeah. So, 1

and I'll touch on that in a slide or two. Yep.

2 All right. So what's our deployment 3

vision? We envision two different, basically, modes 4

of operation show on the screen here. One is your 5 5

megawatt electric output with some thermal heating as 6

well, basically reusing that waste heat. It is 7

open-air Brayton cycle power conversion.

8 And then the second one would be really 9

we're seeing some other interests in really just thermal 10 energy. There is a lot of industrial processes, 11 district heating, and others that need a high 12 temperature or a very large thermal energy that they 13 can't get today in a carbon-free solution.

14 So there is an opportunity for our 15 technology there to marry up against some of the 16 existing technologies and processes that industry is 17 using today for many of our products to deliver the 18 thermal energy that they need to move themselves into, 19 let's say, a carbon neutral or net zero state for their 20 company or facility or organization.

21 So, again, it's 15 megawatts thermal, 5 22 megawatts electric. Again, we're focused on right 23 sizing, you know, for us how many onsite personnel for 24 operations and maintenance, given that we are very 25

22 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com different from a large light water reactor technology.

1 And, really, for this design, it has been, 2

how do we take very, you know, mature technology but 3

integrate them into a combined system, such that we're 4

actually meeting the customer expectations, meeting 5

the costs that we need to to be competitive in this 6

mater, but also deliver something that actually builds 7

on the resiliency, the security, and the other 8

attributes, the transportability that we're looking 9

for for the features of this product.

10 So, and lastly there, the biggest one, 11 again, is for us avoiding any onsite cooling waters 12 or any other interaction, really minimizing the 13 environmental impact, such that we can easily deploy 14 and license these to a number of different sites.

15 MEMBER BROWN: So the sites probably won't 16 have normal power grid availability, so -- based on 17 looking at the report, it looked like you all were 18 talking about a micro grid locally that you all would 19 come along with this package. Is that -- is that 20 correct or --

21 MR. HALACKNA: So I would say we envision 22 a number of different options. I think there could 23 be certainly normal grid-enabled sites where there is 24 an existing grid or an existing micro grid. Some of 25

23 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com the remote, let's say, mining or remote community 1

applications, though, may be on a micro grid where there 2

is hydro wind or solar as well. So we are designing 3

basically a micro grid interface system to deal with 4

any grid demand changes that will interface 5

MEMBER BROWN: So we're still -- you'll 6

stick with the 5 megawatt electric --

7 MR. HALACKNA: Yes. Yep.

8 MEMBER BROWN: That's pretty small when 9

you connect it to a large --

10 MR. HALACKNA: Yeah. So --

11 MEMBER BROWN: -- really heavy-duty 12 utility grid.

13 MR. HALACKNA: Yes.

14 MEMBER BROWN: In terms of its, you know, 15 paralleling capacity and everything else that you're 16 so that's why I asked the question. So whether you 17 were going to be independent or not, so it's a mixed 18 bag in other words.

19 MR. HALACKNA: Yeah.

20 MEMBER BROWN: Okay. Thank you.

21 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: And on that, so I'm 22 sure he has thought about this -- not every one, but 23 you only usually have to run your I&C systems, the 24 protection system and monitoring communications, all 25

24 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com those.

1 Are you planning to bootstrap yourself or 2

have a listen button in there, or what are you thinking 3

about?

4 MR. HALACKNA: Yeah. So there certainly 5

is energy storage onsite for the safety systems to deal 6

with any number of design basis event conditions. So 7

that -- we'll get to that in part of the later slide 8

deck. We'll go through some of the I&C and electrical 9

that support the design basis.

10 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: I'm willing to wait.

11 MR. HALACKNA: Okay.

12 MEMBER BROWN: So am I.

13 MR. HALACKNA: All right. So, again, just 14 high-level overview of the design that we have, again, 15 the focus here for us is it's a TRISO-fueled reactor 16 with heat pipes to transfer heat from basically the 17 core there in the center of the picture via heat pipes 18 to a primary heat exchanger on the right side of the 19 screen.

20 As I mentioned, that's an open-air Brayton 21 cycle, so we have a sleeve basically over each heat 22 pipe, which then is -- that air is then cooled and taken 23 through the open-air Brayton cycle, which will be 24 adjacent basically area to the reactor.

25

25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com Again, graphite moderator core structure 1

there. And just over one atmospheric pressure inside 2

the core.

3 Go to the next slide.

4 All right. So our focus has been, again, 5

simplicity, flexibility, transportability. We want 6

to design this with as simple of an architecture as 7

we can. One of the key initiatives for this design 8

is to load the fuel before we transport this to site, 9

such that we are transportable and we can deploy this 10 to any number of locations.

11 So it will be transported, and then on the 12 other side of the operation transported offsite for 13 storage and decommissioning.

14 Again, with the number of markets that I 15 showed on the first slide, there's a lot of non 16 traditional utilities

today, non-traditional 17 applications, in which case we don't envision storing 18 spent fuel on those locations, in which case we would 19 take it back to a centralized storage facility, and 20 later for potentially refueling and refurbishment, and 21 then eventually for decommissioning.

22 And, again, with the open-air Brayton 23 cycle, both really as our ultimate heat sink, it is 24 really just the ambient air environment as well as our 25

26 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com normal power conversion system working fluid. So in 1

case of -- for us, we can flexibly deploy this to any 2

number of sites, have a very generic operating model 3

that can apply basically anywhere.

4 MEMBER HALNON: Well, I was going to say 5

a couple of times I've seen the nuclear battery 6

branding. Is that how you're going to brand this thing 7

is a nuclear battery? Because it's not intuitive to 8

the public to say it's a nuclear battery. I can just 9

pop in the remote control and start working, so --

10 MR. HALACKNA: So I'd say we're still --

11 this is still an eVinci micro reactor. It is still 12 a fission reactor in that sense, but that is the model 13 that we are driving towards is where the operations 14 really are and the system operates autonomously.

15 MEMBER HALNON: Okay.

16 MEMBER BROWN: Transportation. When you 17 look at existing fuels, at least the ones I'm familiar 18 with in the naval nuclear program, when you're 19 transporting stuff that's wrapped up like this, you've 20 got to meet a lot of rules like stay 300 feet off of 21 a bridge on sharp, pointed rocks, or --

22 MR. HALACKNA: Yeah.

23 MEMBER BROWN: -- steel pillars. So 24 you're anticipating having to meet those transportation 25

27 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com goals --

1 MR. HALACKNA: Exactly. Yep.

2 MEMBER BROWN: -- as well.

3 MR. HALACKNA: So what you see on the 4

screen here basically is a transportation cask that 5

will be designed to all of those regulations.

6 MEMBER BROWN: Okay. Thank you.

7 MEMBER BALLINGER: So you're not going to 8

take an exemption to Part 70?

9 MR. SCHOEDEL: So I'll weigh in. So this 10 is Anthony Schoedel. I'm the manager of Advanced 11 Reactors Licensing. So thanks, Mr. Chairman, and the 12 Committee, for having us here today.

13 So as we've communicated through some of 14 our White Papers, and focusing on the transportation 15 topic specifically, we are going to conform and comply 16 with Part 71 transportation requirements, and that 17 includes the allowance for transportation PRA, right, 18 where we would look at, say, things like the drop in 19 the testing that you're talking about, really 20 optimizing it for our design and making sure the 21 transportation PRA is part of that strategy.

22 So it's -- that will look a little 23 different, maybe from things that have historically 24 been in the past, but the end game is conform with Part 25

28 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com

71.

1 MEMBER BALLINGER: So you'll be the first 2

to do that?

3 MR. SCHOEDEL: My understanding is that 4

we are going to -- we are going to be exploring territory 5

that is allowable but maybe not fully expressed in the 6

past.

7 MEMBER REMPE: So I'm not sure how much 8

of this can be said in the open session, and feel free 9

-- and I even saw a later slide where I was going to 10 bring it up, but I think I'll bring it up here.

11 I'm curious about the startup of not only 12 the first one but the second one and the switch out, 13 holding time, and how quickly you'll go -- because it 14 seems like you want to do some checkouts, in fact, I 15 think I saw that somewhere when you first bring it 16 onsite. And then you've got to plug it into something 17 and get the other one unplugged, and how quickly that 18 happens, and then there has got to be a follow on.

19 And can you talk about your -- whatever 20 you can say in the open session on that switch out and 21 22 MR. HALACKNA: Yeah. So --

23 MEMBER REMPE: -- time, et cetera.

24 MR. HALACKNA: Good question. So 25

29 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com certainly we will walk through this a little bit in 1

more detail later on today. But the overall 2

architecture and design for each site is that we would 3

switchover in a matter of days as we take -- after that 4

first eight years of full power operation, we will shut 5

down the primary reactor.

6 We will have already brought in our second 7

reactor into an adjacent structure, and basically 8

reusing the same architecture for I&C, electrical, 9

power conversion, and all the rest of the site 10 facilities and infrastructure we will switch over.

11 So you can see an example on the screen 12 here. There is basically two pipes between the power 13 conversion system and the heat exchanger attached to 14 the reactor. Right? So those two pipes we will 15 basically valve out and switch over at reactor number 16 2, and basically same with the cabling.

17 So we can then, after reactor number 1 is 18 shut down, it will basically go into decommissioning, 19 and we will wait until it cools down from a radiological 20 perspective before it's transported offsite.

21 MEMBER REMPE: Any time that you have to 22 wait for the cooldown or you'd rather not say here?

23 MR. HALACKNA: So, yeah, we'll talk more 24 in the closed session, but mostly to meet the applicable 25

30 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com design limits for the shielding that is part of the 1

transportation cask.

2 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: While we are talking 3

about this, there are two things that drive you to the 4

eight-year operating in my mind. One is, how much 5

uranium you can load into it. Another one is, how long 6

does your fuel last.

7 MR. HALACKNA: Mm-hmm.

8 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: Because I can 9

conceive of making a reactor has less reactivity and 10 more mass, allows six to 10 years. Taking this used 11 reactor out of the facility and transporting it 12 somewhere in the desert is going to be a significant 13 fraction of your cost.

14 MR. HALACKNA: Yes. So transportation, 15 the cask itself, obviously, it will be, let's say, one 16 cask for -- that can transport a number of reactors.

17 And, yes, so there are -- there are limits from the 18 fuel perspective, also from the reactivity control 19 systems between our control drums and shutdown rods 20 for their ability to maintain sufficient shutdown 21 margin as well.

22 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: And, again, feel free 23 to go to the proprietary session, but do you have 24 sufficient confidence in your fuel that it will last 25

31 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com for eight years?

1 MR. HALACKNA: Yes.

2 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: Do we have sufficient 3

data?

4 MR. HALACKNA: Yes. So we are leveraging, 5

certainly, the topical reports on TRISO fuel, and that 6

is one of the things that we will go into more detail 7

in the closed session.

8 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: You don't have 9

special flex shifts and inspection shifts as things 10 burn? But we can talk more later.

11 MR. HALACKNA: Yes.

12 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: But the question is, 13 do you have sufficient confidence that they will last.

14 And if it doesn't last, do we have enough I&C monitoring 15 to detect it?

16 MR. HALACKNA: Mm-hmm.

17 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: But keep that in mind 18 and hopefully answer later.

19 MR. HALACKNA: No. Thank you for the 20 comment.

21 All right. So I'll talk briefly on really 22 our development timeline that we have, where we started 23 the last -- really, 2021, 2022, focused on finishing 24 the conceptual design. That has been important really 25

32 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com to -- for us to be able to engage in a meaningful way 1

with the NRC staff having a fixed design that allows 2

us to do a lot more analysis and testing and provide 3

that data into the technical White Papers that I 4

mentioned earlier.

5 Again, our electrical demonstration unit, 6

which we will talk about more in our closed session.

7 And again, also, something we've been doing is meeting 8

both in the preapplication phase with both the U.S.

9 and Canadian regulators. So we'll talk about our 10 nuclear test reactor. That's the NTR. We've started 11 to really design that already, and that's a big focus 12 for us in the year 2023.

13 A number of the things we've done in the 14

past, too, is really integrated manufacturing 15 demonstrations, so not just testing but also how do 16 we scale up and validate the supply chain and the 17 capabilities to meet our design parameters that we're 18 putting in in terms of the materials, material 19 properties, impurities, and just be able to meet the 20 challenging configurations that we have with this 21 reactor design.

22 Again, a lot of -- I mentioned before, a 23 lot of separate effects tests in terms of materials, 24 material interactions. We are operating a high 25

33 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com temperature, so that does -- that drives a lot of the 1

testing that we've been doing in addition to that 2

material interaction.

3 And, again, as we look at '24, we have some 4

criticality testing planned, as well as irradiation 5

testing ongoing again in the future, and then we always 6

continue to challenge ourselves in terms of that 7

manufacturing, assembly, design for value, all those 8

different attributes to make sure that we're achieving 9

our market and product requirements.

10 And then, again --

11 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: Criticality testing 12 is going to be prototypical or just collecting data 13 to evaluate your method?

14 MR. HALACKNA: Sorry. Can you repeat --

15 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: Criticality testing, 16 is it going to be a prototypical geometry or just going 17 to collect data to evaluate your method?

18 MR. HALACKNA: So, do you want to take 19 that?

20 MR. SCHOEDEL: Yeah. So I think you'll 21 see when we get into the closed portion of the discussion 22 we're going to have a lot of discussion around testing, 23 overall test program, including criticality testing.

24 Ultimately, the testing that we're doing, 25

34 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com whether you call it single effects or integral-type 1

tests, are all going to end up supporting in some 2

fashion, you know, V&V of our analysis code suite and 3

ultimately support our licensing case.

4 Yeah. This is Anthony Schoedel with 5

Westinghouse licensing.

6 MR. HALACKNA: All right. Joe Halackna, 7

Westinghouse. So just on the bottom of the slide there 8

you can see our licensing timelines as well, so we're 9

currently in the -- again, the preapplication, 10 prelicensing phase. We'll get into some of our future 11 submittals that we're planning there in the topicals 12 in later slides.

13 And, again, from there we'll plan to 14 eventually, in 2024, submit our design license 15 application and move through in the '25 to '27 timeline 16 our design certification.

17 In parallel, we have initiated various 18 discussions. We'll talk about vendor design review 19 with the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission as well 20 as some joint reviews between the NRC and the CNSC as 21 well.

22 Go to the next slide.

23 I mentioned the test reactor. It is a 3 24 megawatt thermal reactor, so that's one-fifth power 25

35 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com scale. In our design, we refer to it as a unit cell.

1 We also think of it as a fuel assembly.

2 Basically, it's the same design in that 3

terms, but a lot less fuel assemblies or unit cells 4

are in the designs with much lower power, not -- shorter 5

axial length for the core, so enough of the design that 6

we can validate our key attributes and our key 7

performance and safety of the plant, but it's not a 8

full-scale reactor.

9 But we're targeting this to achieve a lot 10 of the integrated safety analysis that we really need 11 for the plant, and really use that as part of our design 12 certification process to close out any of the testing 13 that we need from our PIRTs and our other safety analysis 14 needs.

15 MEMBER REMPE: So it looks like you're 16 putting this in the EBR-I -- or, excuse me, II 17 containment, right? That looks like an Idaho picture.

18 It doesn't require any interactions with the NRC, but 19 I would hope that they are cognizant and this activity 20 is well coordinated, so you can address things that 21 would come up in the future. Could you talk about that 22 interaction a bit?

23 MR. SCHOEDEL: Mm-hmm. So this is Anthony 24 Schoedel, Westinghouse licensing. So spot on, yes.

25

36 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com So this is being -- it's intended to go into EBR-II 1

dome at INL with DOE authorization as part of that 2

process.

3 As part of the DOE authorization process 4

and the development of those application documents, 5

we're engaging with DOE and INL team and NRIC team to 6

make sure that there is, you know, access, availability 7

for both U.S. NRC and CNSC in Canada to be apprised 8

of what's going on with that test facility and making 9

sure also through our integrated test plan that we're 10 capturing through preapplication engagements, you 11 know, that this test amongst the suite of the rest of 12 our tests are going to accomplish the full gamut of 13 what's needed for licensing for eVinci micro reactor 14 in both countries.

15 So, yes, the allowance is there and that 16 coordination has been going on.

17 MEMBER REMPE: Thank you.

18 MEMBER PETTI: Just a question, smaller 19 one. Will you have the capability to measure the 20 radioactive contents of the gas, the air?

21 MR. HALACKNA: So this is Joe Halackna.

22 So we'll -- I think we'll get into --

23 MEMBER PETTI: The helium that's in the 24 25

37 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. HALACKNA: Within the core or within 1

the --

2 MEMBER PETTI: The core.

3 MR. HALACKNA: -- EBR-II dome?

4 MEMBER PETTI: No. Within the core.

5 MR. HALACKNA: Okay.

6 MEMBER PETTI: The helium. I'm just 7

talking about the fuel, okay? HEI program, the EPRI 8

topical, fuel never went beyond two years of radiation.

9 You know, eight years is a long time. you're running 10 it at a derated power relative to that.

11 You know, my personal opinion is that it's 12 probably going to survive. The problem is, there's 13 no data behind that. That's just sort of an educated 14 guess. And there's enough bad data historically that 15 could scare people who don't, you know, appreciate the 16 full landscape of TRISO fuel. And so one way to do 17 that is if you monitor the content of the helium, if 18 you feel particles, you'll know. You'll see increases 19 in noble gases.

20 And it's not a difficult thing, but it's 21 just something that if you have it, it provides some 22 assurance.

23 MR. HALACKNA: Yeah. So I think we 24 understand the comment in particular, and I think in 25

38 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com a closed session we'll have some slides that address 1

that question. Yeah.

2 MR. SCHOEDEL: This is Anthony Schoedel 3

with Westinghouse licensing. So this slide -- Joe has 4

done a good job at explaining, you know, what are some 5

of the different aspects of eVinci micro reactor and 6

maybe what's new and novel about it. This slide is 7

a great representation of maybe the full picture or, 8

you know, beginning to end on what is -- what's new 9

with eVinci, particularly around how it's deployed, 10 right, and how is it brought to market and operating, 11 right?

12 So you kind of work these in order, you 13 know, left to right, one through eight. But starting 14 with item 1 there, that's the test reactor that we were 15 just discussing, really. So what we're trying to show 16 here on this slide is you pick up with what we would 17 consider our pinnacle or the final integrated nuclear 18 test for eVinci micro reactor that supports the design 19 certification. Right?

20 So when we say, in step 2, eVinci licensing 21 approval, what we're really talking about there is, 22 you know, we have submitted a design certification 23 application under Part 52, and we're going to close 24 out any analysis, testing, and V&V ultimately to 25

39 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com complete that application and get certification.

1 That transitions, then, into the dotted 2

line or the dotted box area where we really focus on, 3

how is eVinci manufactured and delivered and brought 4

into -- brought into fruition, right?

5 So Joe has talked about, you know, this 6

is going to be assembled, manufactured, fueled, and 7

then transported to the operating site. So you see 8

that in items 3, 4. Primarily, you can transport this 9

via rail, barge, or truck.

10 It will operate, then, for a period of, 11 you know, the design lifetime. We'll say eight years 12 of effective full power lifetime, with remote 13 monitoring capability. I would like to differentiate 14 that that's remote monitoring and not remote operation 15 or control, right? So it's remote monitoring 16 capability.

17 And then, finally, on the back end is, you 18 know, we -- we're not going to deal with onsite handling 19 of spent fuel. We're not going to do onsite refueling 20 as part of this vision and the strategy. It's going 21 to be taken away in the transportation canister that 22 Joe talked on earlier. That canister would be designed 23 for the limiting case, being the spent case after 24 operation, and then it's taken back to an interim 25

40 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com storage facility where it would -- it would reside until 1

deep geologic disposal is available.

2 So that's soup to nuts how eVinci is tested, 3

made, and delivered. So any questions on this before 4

the next slide?

5 MEMBER HALNON: Yeah. You mentioned and 6

emphasized remote monitoring, remote operation. Joe, 7

you mentioned autonomous operation. I assume that in 8

closed session we're going to get -- talk about the 9

difference between those two and the nuclear battery 10 versus the nuclear reactor.

11 MR. HALACKNA: Yeah. And those are two 12 separate systems in that sense, too.

13 MEMBER HALNON: Yeah. So let's not -- I 14 want to make sure we understand the role of the operator 15 on this thing.

16 MEMBER PETTI: So just a question on the 17 defueling. If you -- how long is the coil again, 18 axially?

19 MR. HALACKNA: Approximately 10 feet.

20 MEMBER PETTI: The defueling machine is 21 not something to overlook. Okay? You know, the one 22 that we use in Fort St. Vrain is long gone. That was 23 on top vertical. Horizontal defueling is going to be 24 a challenge.

25

41 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR.

HALACKNA:

So Joe

Halackna, 1

Westinghouse. I'll just say that is one of the things 2

we have already been working on is cooling associated 3

with all of this deployment model. We have several 4

demonstrations underway to demonstrate that exact 5

process.

6 MR. SCHOEDEL: Thanks. Anthony Schoedel 7

with Westinghouse. So we've talked a number of times 8

here in the discussion about the preapplication 9

engagement. So a lot of thanks to Mr. Wentzel and NRR, 10 NMSS, over the past year plus. We're supporting a 11 volume of White Papers that -- in the Westinghouse 12 design and engineering and licensing team have put 13 together referencing the White Paper that Mr. Wentzel 14 talked about at his opening remarks, and the value of 15 preapplication engagement really as we go through 16 design development, and in the early stages of licensing 17 this new -- this new micro reactor technology.

18 So you see here, you know, that we listed 19 the 24 that have been submitted between 2021 and 2022.

20 Those are available, you know, for NRC staff and 21 through ADAMS. We've had a number of dialogues with 22 them on, you know, I'll call it like post-submittal 23 discussions where we've solicited, you

know, 24 observations and feedback, making sure we clearly 25

42 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com understand, you know, where we need to, you know, 1

continue to progress in some of -- some of the more 2

challenging issues on the eVinci deployment.

3 And that's being taken back and funneled 4

into our design organization and making sure that the 5

feedback and the observations are being captured and 6

informing the design development to set up a smooth 7

and streamlined license application process, like Mr.

8 Wentzel indicated, from the staff's White Paper.

9 You can see there is more coming in 2023, 10 and these White Papers then are a stepping stone to 11 more formal submittals, topical reports, coming in 2023 12 and beyond, and then setting up the design cert 13 application, like Joe said, end of '24, early 2025.

14 So we'll have some more discussion 15 specifically around topical reports and some of the 16 other licensing strategy in the closed session of the 17 discussion, but I just wanted to highlight the good 18 engagements and the robustness of the preapplication 19 from this Westinghouse team to date.

20 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: I wanted to make a 21 comment, not a question, about -- I like that number 22 30, cybersecurity, that you are thinking about it before 23 you start, because if you follow the news, I mean, if 24

-- what I get in -- you had to scale to this because 25

43 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com you didn't know enough. You're talking about more 1

monitoring, autonomous operation. Cybersecurity is 2

number one.

3 MEMBER HALNON: So, you guys, this is 4

great. You've got a lot of good information there.

5 If we wanted to look at those, would they reflect a 6

revision to the NRC comments you have had during your 7

interaction, or is that going to be reflected in the 8

topical reports down the road?

9 MR. SCHOEDEL: Yes. So Anthony Schoedel, 10 Westinghouse licensing. So these are the submittals 11 themselves. They will not reflect any revision from 12 NRC comments and feedback. The reflection of that is 13 going to go directly into either the follow-on topical 14 reports themselves or directly into the license 15 applications.

16 MEMBER HALNON: Okay. So if we wanted to 17 get like the picture of number 15, EPZ Sizing 18 Methodology -- no specific reason why I chose that --

19 but is there a record of the NRC comments back and forth 20 between you all? Is it, you know --

21 MR. SCHOEDEL: Yes. Great question.

22 Anthony Schoedel, Westinghouse licensing. So that --

23 there is a record. Westinghouse has a preapplication 24 docket with NRC, and that's available on NRC's website.

25

44 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com And every paper that Westinghouse has submitted and 1

the NRC written feedback provided back to Westinghouse 2

is available with an added succession number.

3 Largely, the contents are proprietary, so 4

the links will take you to, you know, those statements.

5 But they are available on ADAMS.

6 MEMBER HALNON: All right. So if we have 7

a specific issue with one of them, we can certainly 8

run that around pretty easily. All right. Thank you.

9 MR. SHAQQO: Greg, we have them all 10 uploaded on SharePoint.

11 MEMBER HALNON: All the record is? Both 12 the White Paper and the NRC comments?

13 MR. SHAQQO: Yes.

14 MEMBER HALNON: Okay. Good.

15 MR. SHAQQO: Thanks to Donna.

16 MEMBER HALNON: Thank you.

17 MEMBER BROWN: Can you go back to your 18 slide 11?

19 MR. SCHOEDEL: Yes.

20 MEMBER BROWN: Next previous one, the one 21 on NTR. Yeah. The one before that, excuse me. Yeah.

22 Looking at that last block it says design 23 fully received, regulatory licensing approval. Is 24 that for installing in some remote mining location or 25

45 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com is that the NTR design? I mean, that's '27, so that's 1

three and a half years from now, or four years.

2 MR. SCHOEDEL: Yeah. So Anthony 3

Schoedel, Westinghouse licensing. That's primarily 4

referring to the design certification application.

5 MEMBER BROWN: So installing -- it's 6

commercial unit delivery and operation --

7 MR. SCHOEDEL: Right. That's --

8 MEMBER BROWN: It would be pretty helpful 9

if I had my mic on. I apologize for that.

10 MR. SCHOEDEL: So that would be covered 11 by the plusses you indicated, but the initial -- the 12 initial approval here would be the design cert 13 application. So it sets up the rest of the dotted line 14 deployment model licensing activities.

15 MEMBER BROWN: So that's done in '27 or 16 so.

17 MR. SCHOEDEL: Right. The vision is 18 starting to submit the design cert application in the 19 end of '24, early '25 timeframe, like we've discussed.

20 And then there is a -- you know, a multi-year review 21 period there consistent with what Mr. Wentzel said in 22 his remarks, and that all builds off of the White Paper 23 engagement, the topical reports that we're going to 24 talk to in the closed session, too, a bit, and you're 25

46 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com taking the feedback, you're making sure that the license 1

application builds off of this engagement.

2 MEMBER BROWN: Okay. Thank you. Just 3

trying to connect the dots between the words and the 4

box. That's all.

5 MEMBER MARCH-LEUBA: Yeah. But doing 6

some advertising here. As opposed to light water --

7 larger light water reactors, you would expect 8

construction of one such facility to be in months, not 9

weeks, timeframe, right?

10 MR. SCHOEDEL: Correct.

11 MEMBER BALLINGER: I tried to go through 12 all of these documents, and there are so many of them 13 I'm sure I missed some. Probably missed a lot. But 14 if you ship one of these things up to Timmons, who owns 15 the license, the customer or you?

16 MR. SCHOEDEL: Anthony Schoedel with 17 Westinghouse licensing. So I think that's something 18 that we will be giving some more detail when we get 19 into the closed session. But there is going to be 20 handshakes and license transfers as part of the 21 deployment model.

22 MR. HALACKNA: Yeah. So Joe Halackna, 23 Westinghouse. So, again, to really deliver this 24 technology right, you need partners. We couldn't do 25

47 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com this simply by ourselves, whether it's the NTR 1

delivering out at Idaho National Lab.

2 We do have some early adopters that we're 3

working with, including Penn State and Saskatchewan 4

Research Council, design partners, highly leveraged, 5

again, our partner, Brayton Energy, in terms of 6

delivering this power conversion system, which is, 7

obviously, different than a lot of the light water 8

reactor technologies on secondary side there.

9 And, again, all of the national labs that 10 have contributed to a number of the different materials, 11 heat pipes, fuel, all of the different things that would 12 have made up this micro reactor, and, again, a lot of 13 the material that development for our high temperature 14 regime that we're operating in.

15 So you can see a number of our partners 16 on the screen there that we've been very successful 17 in working with in order to deliver this very important 18 technology and product.

19 MEMBER BALLINGER: Have you actually 20 visited Brayton Energy?

21 MR. HALACKNA: Yes.

22 MEMBER BALLINGER: Okay.

23 MR. HALACKNA: Yes. Sorry?

24 MEMBER BALLINGER: The seafood is nice.

25

48 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com MR. HALACKNA: All right. Yeah. So I 1

think we just want to close out with saying, again, 2

thank you. This is -- for the opportunity today to 3

present the work we've been doing in the preapplication 4

phase with the NRC.

5 We've had -- it has been a great opportunity 6

to collaborate and work with them at this phase of where 7

we are, and we look forward to, again, progressing this 8

design, and ultimately working through the licensing 9

process.

10 Anthony, any --

11 MR. SCHOEDEL: No. Just, again, thank you 12 to Mr. Chairman, to the ACRS Committee here for taking 13 the time today, and thank you to NRC for the dialogue.

14 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Okay. Well, thank you, 15 Joseph and Anthony. And thanks for your comments.

16 Members, further questions for this 17 session?

18 To our members out there, Vesna and Vicki, 19 and our consultants?

20 MEMBER DIMITRIJEVIC: Hi. Yes, Walt.

21 This is Vesna. In this -- the White Paper schedule 22 that is -- the four or five of them coming in March, 23 I just want to check with Chris, will they be made 24 available for us immediately when they receive them 25

49 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com in March?

1 MR. BROWN: I'm going to ask Donna to 2

comment on that. Donna Williams.

3 MS. WILLIAMS: Yes. We can certainly 4

share the incoming White Papers and then our feedback 5

once it's issued.

6 MEMBER DIMITRIJEVIC: All right. Thank 7

you.

8 So just what are coming on the PRA, you 9

know, programs and schedules, so I'm looking forward 10 to see that.

11 CHAIR KIRCHNER: Thank you, Vesna.

12 Others?

13 If we have no further comments, then we 14 need to turn to the public. And at this time, if there 15 are any members on the line or in the room here who 16 wish to make a comment, please identify yourself, and 17 affiliation if appropriate, and please make your 18 comment.

19 Using a long pause of 15 seconds, but I'm 20 not hearing anyone out there wishing to make a comment.

21 Okay. With that, we will close this open 22 session and return on a closed Teams link. We will 23 take time for Chris, our Designated Federal Official, 24 and NRC staff -- I think Donna Crawford -- to help with 25

50 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com Westinghouse's assistance -- I think that's you, 1

Anthony -- to check who is on the closed session.

2 So we will -- to allow time to do that, 3

I think we should take a 15-minute break, and we will 4

return at --

5 MEMBER BROWN: 2:10.

6 CHAIR KIRCHNER: No, that's not enough.

7 MEMBER BROWN: 3:10.

8 CHAIR KIRCHNER: No. Let us return at 9

2:20 Eastern Time.

10 Thank you for all that help. We will 11 reconvene at 2:20. Thank you.

12 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went 13 off the record at 1:55 p.m.)

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Westinghouse Non-Proprietary Class 3 EVR_LTR_230041 WAAP-12580, Revision 0 eVinci Microreactor Overview - Non-Proprietary Open Presentation (Non-Proprietary)

Westinghouse Electric Company 1000 Westinghouse Drive Cranberry Township, PA 16066

eVinci TM Microreactor The eVinci microreactor is a next-generation energy source for delivering clean & reliable energy for the 21st century Design & Development Program Joseph Halackna, Deputy Director Alex Harkness, Chief Engineer Anthony Schoedel, Advanced Reactor Licensing Manager eVinci and AP1000 are trademarks or registered trademarks of Westinghouse Electric Company LLC, its affiliates and/or its subsidiaries in the United States of America and may be registered in other countries throughout the world. All rights reserved. Unauthorized use is strictly prohibited.

Other names may be trademarks of their respective owners.

eVinciTM Microreactor 5 MWe SMR 300 MWe Gen IV Lead Fast Reactor 450 MWe AP1000 PWR 1100+ MWe Shaping Todays and Tomorrows Energy A Portfolio of Innovative Solutions Long-Duration Energy Storage Radioisotope Production Fuel Cycle Closure Hydrogen Generation and Process Heat Complementary Clean Energy Products to Serve the Needs of Diverse Global Customers Our reactors can also deliver these beyond-electricity benefits:

Agenda February 28, 2023 New Nuclear Market & Applications Heat Pipes & eVinci Microreactor Development History Deployment Vision Design Attributes Transportable Nuclear Battery Technology Timeline Nuclear Test Reactor for eVinci Microreactor Deployment Model with Current Regulations Current Status on Pre-licensing with US NRC

The Market and Applications for New Nuclear Clean, Carbon-Free Energy Solutions and Energy Security are Driving New Nuclear Demand Remote Communities Remote Mining Operations Critical Infrastructure Installations Hydrogen Generation Disaster Relief Industrial Process Heat District Heating Research Reactors Space Maritime

Heat Pipes:

An Innovative, Elegant Game Changer Heat pipe technology shouldnt be new to you. Chances are youve carried heat pipes around with you for years as heat-spread devices in your mobile phone or other electronics.

Heat pipe technology has been applied for the past 50 to 60 years with millions of operating hours in industries that need passive and simple designs. Westinghouse engineers have taken that concept and applied it to nuclear energy.

What does that mean?

Heat pipes enable high-temperature, passive-heat transfer, eliminating the complexity of a forced-flow reactor coolant system, so no pumps or valves needed. Operated by capillary forces, heat pipes eliminate the need for high-pressure operation.

Few moving parts and low pressures make heat pipe systems highly reliable while requiring very little maintenance.

In the end, thats the game-changer.

Batteries as we all know them are pretty simple devices, requiring no moving parts to discharge their energy, powering a multitude of everyday devices for various lengths of time.

What if we applied that concept to nuclear energy?

Thats what Westinghouse has achieved with the eVinci microreactor: a nuclear battery.

Like a battery, the eVinci microreactor has a simple design with no moving parts or pumps for coolant. Like a battery, the eVinci microreactor can supply its power 24/7/365. But unlike most batteries we know, the eVinci microreactor can do this without recharging (refueling) for eight years or more.

The game has changed.

eVinci Microreactor:

The Real Nuclear Battery

eVinci Microreactor - Developed from Decades of Research 1980s to 2000 - heat pipe reactors developed for space due to simplicity, small size & passive cooling 2000 to 2015 - national laboratory led materials and reactor design development research 2015 - Westinghouse began development of heat pipe & microreactor concepts 2018 - DOE/NASA demonstration of 5kW heat pipe reactor (KRUSTY) & technology commercialization fund initiated between Westinghouse

& LANL 2020 - completed construction of eVinci test facility & manufactured first sodium heat pipe 2021 - electrical demonstration of heat pipe core assembly at operating temperature 2022 - material compatibility testing & conceptual design completed; technical white papers & first topical reports delivered to US NRC; produced first heat pipe for design of Nuclear Test Reactor (NTR)

2015 2016 2017 2018 2019 2020 2021 2022 2023

Deployment Vision Nuclear battery designed for safe and reliable electricity and heat

15 MWt reactor with 8+ year refuel cycle

Effective cogeneration nuclear battery

Transportable for ease of installation &

elimination of spent fuel storage on site

Cost-competitive plant lifecycle

Minimal onsite personnel for O&M

Mature technology, manufacturing, and regulatory readiness

High speed load following capability

Versatile and flexible open-air Brayton power conversion

The eVinci Microreactor Safety through passive heat pipe technology, enabling a very low-pressure reactor Parameter eVinci Power 15 MWt Fuel Cycle 8 years Fuel (Enrichment)

TRISO (19.75%)

Coolant Heat Pipes Reactor Pressure

~1 atm Moderator Graphite Power Conversion Open-Air Brayton Efficiency 34%

Decay Heat Removal Radial Conduction Shut Down Rods Steel Canister Radial Reflector Control Drums Graphite Core Block Primary Heat Exchanger Shielding &

Bulkhead Heat Pipes

Designed for Simplicity, Flexibility & Transportability The eVinci microreactor is a transportable nuclear battery with a simple design architecture enabled by passive, low pressure heat pipes

Fuel load before transport

Transported off-site for storage & decommissioning

Flexibly deployed

eVinci Microreactor - Technology Development & Timeline Leading the way in advanced reactor development and commercialization

NTR component fabrication

Criticality, transient and irradiation testing

Design for value, manufacturing

& assembly Licensing Technology Development and Manufacturing

NTR assembly and operation

Analysis code validation

Initiate eVinci Unit 1 manufacturing

5 MWe non-nuclear power conversion test

Design complete

Receive regulatory licensing approvals

Commercial unit delivery and operation

NTR design for procurement

Integrated manufacturing demonstrations and prototyping

Separate effect and component testing

Conceptual design complete

Electrical demonstration unit operational

Initiated licensing engagement with US and Canadian regulators Other countries licensing activities Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission (CNSC) vendor design review US NRC pre-licensing engagement (Technical papers & Topical report submittals)

Prepare & submit design license to NRC NRC review & approve design certification 2021-2022 2023 2024 2025-2026 2027+

Nuclear Test Reactor for the eVinci Microreactor

3 MWt Reactor System

Reactor system, reactivity control systems, heat exchanger, and targeted I&C

A New Deployment Model Within Current Regulations 1

Test reactor for safety feature performance demonstration eVinci licensing approval Test reactor - testing, data collection and analysis 2

Assemble in factory 3

Transport to site 4

Install and operate at site 5

Primary reactor Replacement reactor Transport away from site 6

Depleted reactor Remote monitoring station eVinci Microreactor Deployment Limited site staff with remote monitoring Refuel/refurbish 7

or decommission 8

Fuel storage facility

Current Status: https://www.nrc.gov/reactors/new-reactors/advanced/licensing-activities/pre-application-activities/evinci.html Topic Submittal Wave Topic Submittal Wave Topic Submittal Wave 1

Facility Level Design Description Submitted - 1 13 Advanced Logic System(ALS) v2 Submitted - 3 25 Inservice Inspection Program/Inservice Testing Program 5 (March 23) 2 Principal Design Criteria Submitted - 1 14 Component Qualification Submitted-3 26 Post-Accident Monitoring System 5 (March 23) 3 Safety and Accident Analysis Methodologies Submitted - 1 15 EPZ Sizing Methodology Submitted - 3 27 Equipment Qualification 5 (March 23) 4 LMP Implementation Submitted - 1 16 Physical Security Submitted - 3 28 PRA Program Strategy 5 (March 23) 5 Regulatory Analysis Submitted - 2 17 Heat Pipe Design, Qualification, and Testing Submitted - 3 29 Fire Protection 5 (March 23) 6 Deployment Model Submitted - 2 18 Nuclear Design Submitted - 3 30 Cyber Security 5 (March 23) 7 Safeguards Information Plan Submitted - 2 19 U.S Transportation Strategy Submitted - 3 31 Radiation Protection and Contamination Methodology 6 (Q2 23) 8 Test and Analysis Process Submitted - 2 20 Phenomena Identification and Ranking Table (PIRT)

Submitted - 4 9

Functional Containment and Mechanistic Source Term Submitted - 2 21 Integral Effects and Transient Testing Submitted - 4 10 Composite Material Qualification and Testing Submitted - 2 22 Refueling and Decommissioning Submitted - 4 11 Fuel Qualification and Testing Submitted - 3 23 Seismic Methodology Submitted - 4 12 Code Qualification Submitted - 3 24 Operations and Remote Monitoring Submitted - 4 Licensing Progress with US NRC

Early Adopters

Penn State University - developing research reactor project

Saskatchewan Research Council - developing commercial reactor project Key Design and Development Partnerships

Brayton Energy - Power conversion system design

Aerojet Rocketdyne - Fission Surface Power

LANL, INL PNNL and ORNL

Penn State University - R&D support

MIT - Material irradiation testing Partnerships and Customers

westinghousenuclear.com Thank You!

See our Navigator for more information on the eVinci microreactor and all Westinghouse technology https://navigator-voyantstudios.com/

NRC Staff Pre-application Interactions on the eVinci Advanced Reactor Presentation to the Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards eVinci Subcommittee February 28, 2023 Donna Williams, Senior Project Manager Advanced Reactor Licensing Branch 1 Office of Nuclear Reactor Regulation, US NRC

Background on Pre-application Interactions

NRC draft white paper Pre-application engagement to Optimize Advanced Reactor Application Reviews ML21145A106

NRC staff proposed a set of pre-application activities that, if fully executed, will enable staff to offer more predictable and shorter schedules and other benefits

Staff reviewed 24 white papers, and plan to review 7 more white papers and 15 topical reports

eVinci deployment model introduces policy issues that are under evaluation by the staff.

ML23108A097

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