ML23081A120
| ML23081A120 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 02/16/2023 |
| From: | Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards |
| To: | |
| References | |
| NRC-2267 | |
| Download: ML23081A120 (1) | |
Text
Official Transcript of Proceedings NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
Title:
Advisory Committee on Reactors Safeguards Thermal Hydraulics Subcommittee Open Session Docket Number:
(n/a)
Location:
teleconference Date:
Thursday, February 16, 2023 Work Order No.:
NRC-2267 Pages 1-26 NEAL R. GROSS AND CO., INC.
Court Reporters and Transcribers 1716 14th Street, N.W.
Washington, D.C. 20009 (202) 234-4433
NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1323 RHODE ISLAND AVE., N.W.
(202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20005-3701 www.nealrgross.com 1
1 2
3 DISCLAIMER 4
5 6
UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSIONS 7
ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS 8
9 10 The contents of this transcript of the 11 proceeding of the United States Nuclear Regulatory 12 Commission Advisory Committee on Reactor Safeguards, 13 as reported herein, is a record of the discussions 14 recorded at the meeting.
15 16 This transcript has not been reviewed, 17 corrected, and edited, and it may contain 18 inaccuracies.
19 20 21 22 23
1 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 1
NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION 2
+ + + + +
3 ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON REACTOR SAFEGUARDS 4
(ACRS) 5
+ + + + +
6 SUBCOMMITTEE ON THERMAL HYDRAULICS 7
+ + + + +
8 THURSDAY 9
FEBRUARY 16, 2023 10
+ + + + +
11 The Subcommittee met via Teleconference, 12 at 8:30 a.m. EST, Jose March-Leuba, Chair, presiding.
13 14 COMMITTEE MEMBERS:
15 JOSE MARCH-LEUBA, Chair 16 RONALD G. BALLINGER, Member 17 VICKI M. BIER, Member 18 CHARLES H. BROWN, JR., Member 19 VESNA B. DIMITRIJEVIC, Member 20 WALTER L. KIRCHNER, Member 21 GREGORY H. HALNON, Member 22 DAVID A. PETTI, Member 23 JOY L. REMPE, Member 24 MATTHEW W. SUNSERI, Member 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
2 ACRS CONSULTANT:
1 STEPHEN SCHULTZ 2
3 DESIGNATED FEDERAL OFFICIAL:
4 KENT HOWARD 5
6 7
8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
3 AGENDA 1
PAGE 2
- 1. Opening Remarks and Objectives 4
3
- 2. NRC Opening Remarks.............
7 4
- 3. Framatome Opening Remarks..........
8 5
- 4. ANP-10311P, Revision 1, Supplement 1P, 6
Revision 0: HTP fuel assembly, Regulatory 7
Requirements, critical heat flux (CHF) 8 Testing and data, Subchannel Analysis code, 9
Correlation development and performance, 10 Correlation assessment and statistical 11 analysis.................... 11 12
- 5. ANP-10311P, Revision 1, Supplement 1P, 13 Revision 0: OREFO-HMP CHR Correlation, 14 HMP/HTP Grid Design, Reviewer Concerns..... 15 15 February 21, 2023 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
4 P-R-O-C-E-E-D-I-N-G-S 1
8:30 a.m.
2 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: The meeting will now 3
come to order. This is a meeting of the Accident 4
Analysis Thermal Hydraulics Committee. I am Jose 5
March-Leuba, the Chairman.
6 In addition to in-person attendance at NRC 7
headquarters, the meeting is broadcast via MS Teams.
8 Members in attendance are Ronald Ballinger, Vesna 9
Dimitrijevic, Greg Halnon, Dave Petti, Joy Rempe, and 10 our consultant, Steve Schultz, is also present. We 11 expect Member Charles Brown to come here any minute.
12 MEMBER KIRCHNER: Jose, this is Walt. I'm 13 here too.
14 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: And I see that Walt 15 Kirchner has logged in and Matt Sunseri has logged in.
16 Anybody else?
17 MEMBER BIER: Jose, did you get my name?
18 I ducked out for a minute. This is Vicki.
19 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: So, Vicki Bier is also 20 here.
21 MEMBER BIER: Okay.
22 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: We have a full 23 complement of members. Today, we are reviewing 24 Supplement 1P of Topical Report AMP-10311P-A, or not 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
5 A, entitled COBRA-FLX: ORFEO-HMP Critical Heat Flux 1
Correlation. Portions of our meeting will be closed 2
to the public to protect Framatome proprietary 3
information.
4 We have not received requests to provide 5
comments, but we have an opportunity for public 6
comments before the beginning of the closed section of 7
the meeting.
8 The ACRS was established by a statute and 9
is governed by the Federal Advisory Committee Act, 10 FACA. As such, the Committee only speaks through its 11 published letter reports.
12 The rules for participation in all ACRS 13 meetings were announced in the Federal Register on 14 June 13, 2019.
15 The ACRS section of the U.S. NRC public 16 website provides our charter, bylaws, agendas, letter 17 reports, and full transcripts for the open portions of 18 full and subcommittee meetings, including slides 19 presented there. The Designated Federal Official 20 today is Ken Howard.
21 A transcript of the meeting is being kept.
22 Therefore, speak into the microphones clearly and 23 state your name for the benefit of the court recorder, 24 and if you're in the conference room with many people 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
6 on the line, please remember to identify yourself 1
regularly for the accuracy of the transcript. Please 2
keep all of your electronics and the microphone on 3
mute when not being used.
4 Members, I have reviewed the safety 5
evaluation and my conclusion would be to write a 6
positive ACRS letter recommending that the staff issue 7
the SER.
8 However, a full committee letter will 9
require a new presentation and will delay SER 10 publication by up to a couple of months, which I don't 11 think is worth it. Therefore, I am proposing that 12 according to our bylaws, we use the P&P approved 13 meeting summary procedure.
14 I will write a couple of paragraphs that 15 will be included in the official summary of this 16 meeting, and the full committee P&P approves it by a 17 vote. Think of it like a letter lite.
18 During the presentations today, keep in 19 mind if any item raises to the importance of requiring 20 a letter, in which case we will follow standard 21 procedure and write a letter during the full 22 committee.
23 Basically, if our letter would have said 24 great job, issue it, it is not worth delaying SER 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
7 publication. If our letter will have substantive 1
comments that need to be addressed, the delay is 2
necessary. At the end of the meeting, I will poll you 3
about your opinion. Once more, the situation is 4
covered by our bylaws.
5 At this point, I'd like to request M.J.
6 Ross-Lee from the NRC staff to present her opening 7
remarks. M.J.?
8 MS. ROSS-LEE: Thank you. Good morning.
9 My name is M.J. Ross-Lee. I am the Deputy Division 10 Director of the Division of Safety Systems at NRR.
11 This topical report was one of two that 12 were used to test the efficiency of the regulatory 13 framework that was established in NUREG-KM-0013 for a 14 CHF topical report.
15 The staff performed a joint audit to 16 address both topical reports at the same time, which 17 further increased the efficiency of resource 18 allocation by both the agency and the applicant.
19 Framatome did their part in submitted 20 high-quality topical reports and responding to 21 requests for additional information in a timely 22 manner.
23 As a result, the safety evaluation for 24 this topical report review was completed in just five 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
8 months, which is significantly shorter than the 1
average time of over 12 months for CHF topical reports 2
in the past.
3 We believe this type of regulatory 4
framework can be a large benefit to the NRC and are 5
actively developing frameworks in other technical 6
areas. And with that, I will pass it back. Thank 7
you.
8 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Thank you for that 9
presentation and now we'll pass the microphone to 10 Framatome. Gayle Elliott, I believe you have some 11 opening remarks, or anybody from --
12 MS. ELLIOTT: Yes, this is Gayle Elliott 13 and I am the Director of Licensing and Reg Affairs for 14 Framatome.
15 And first of all, good morning, and 16 welcome to the ACRS subcommittee members, NRC staff, 17 and our own Framatome Inc. staff for attending our 18 discussion today on the ORFEO-HMP Critical Heat Flux 19 Correlation topical report.
20 This health report was a result of the 21 efforts of their fuel organization's Mihnea 22 Anghelescu, Bob Baxter, and Marc Dziuba, as well as 23 one of your own former staff, Tony Attard. Their time 24 and efforts resulted in a quality submittal to the NRC 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
9 in December of 2021 and NRC's review of the topical 1
report in less than a year.
2 So, thank you, gentlemen, Mihnea, and 3
Marc, for your efforts, but I'd also like to recognize 4
Dr. Kaizer for his detailed review of the report and 5
the timely and efficient manner in which he performed 6
his review.
7 Framatome has found that Dr. Kaizer is one 8
of the leading reviewers who can successfully perform 9
an audit for understanding at our facility and have a 10 safety evaluation substantially drafted before he 11 leaves the facility.
12 So, as I
discussed in our ACRS 13 Subcommittee meeting yesterday, Framatome's objective 14 is to get innovation and improved performance methods 15 to the industry, and with our submittal and NRC's 16 review, when it is as cohesive and efficient as the 17 review on this topical report, then we are able to 18 meet that objective, so thank you as well, Dr. Kaizer.
19 So, as we continue to work towards quality 20 reports for all of our submittals, I'd like to 21 encourage the NRC to continue to develop their own 22 reviewers to be able to perform audits for 23 understanding that result in a draft SE during the 24 audit or in a short duration afterwards.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
10 I understand some of our topical reports 1
are more complex than others and it may take more than 2
one audit for understanding, but we have found that if 3
there's a large time lapse between audits and 4
discussions with our subject matter experts, then 5
context and understanding sometimes may not be as 6
distinct.
7 So, that concludes my opening remarks, and 8
again, thank you for your attendance today.
9 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Thanks, Gayle. I'd 10 like to note for the record that Member Brown has 11 joined us, so we now have full contingent of our 12 members.
13 And as I said in my introductory remarks, 14 ACRS only speaks through letter reports and we have 15 spoken on this topic before, and it's related to what 16 Gayle was talking about of the quality of the review 17 that Dr. Kaizer performs.
18 So, I wanted to, even though ACRS wrote a 19 letter on that, I wanted to put my personal opinion 20 that Gayle is right. The moment I saw who had written 21 the SER, I knew we wouldn't have any problems.
22 With that in mind, let's go into the 23 Framatome presentation. Let me remind you that this 24 is the open session, so do not discuss any data or any 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
11 proprietary information.
1 So, for any member of the public that is 2
really interested, you will find that it's a little 3
short, but we members are going to dig into all of the 4
details and numbers in the closed session.
5 So, Framatome, it's your turn and you can 6
start sharing the slides in open session. So far, we 7
see no action.
8 MR. ANGHELESCU: Good morning, everyone.
9 My name is Mihnea Anghelescu. I'm a core thermal 10 hydraulics engineer with Framatome and I'm going to 11 present the ORFEO-HMP critical heat flux correlation.
12 So, I understand you want me to share the slides, 13 right?
14 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Yes, you were going to 15 share the slides, right?
16 MR. ANGHELESCU: Okay.
17 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: I don't know.
18 MR. ANGHELESCU: Give me a second, please.
19 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: We can see a screen.
20 Can you maximize it somehow so we can actually read 21 it?
22 MR. ANGHELESCU: Can you see it now?
23 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: No, we are seeing your 24 desktop.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
12 MR. ANGHELESCU: Okay.
1 MR. OTTO: I can share if you want me to, 2
Mihnea.
3 (Simultaneous speaking.)
4 MR. OTTO: This is Ngola. Just let me 5
know if you wanted me to share. I can share.
6 MR. ANGHELESCU: Yes, I'd prefer you to 7
share.
8 MR. OTTO: All right.
9 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: And you will have to 10 stop sharing first or maybe you can link it all by 11 yourself, Ngola.
12 MR. OTTO: If you can please stop sharing, 13 Mihnea, I'll go ahead and share.
14 MR. ANGHELESCU: Yeah, give me a second, 15 please.
16 MR. OTTO: Sure, no problem.
17 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Are you a presenter?
18 MR. ANGHELESCU: Give me a second, please.
19 Okay, I can see now, yes.
20 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Okay, Mihnea, you can 21 go ahead. We can see everything.
22 MR. ANGHELESCU: Yeah, so good morning, 23 everyone, again. My name is Mihnea Anghelescu. I'm 24 a core thermal hydraulics engineer with Framatome and 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
13 I'm going to present the ORFEO-HMP critical heat flux 1
correlation. Next slide, please?
2 So, I'm going to discuss the HTP fuel 3
assembly design and the ORFEO-HMP version of the 4
capability to this fuel assembly design. I'm going to 5
discuss the regulatory requirements for this 6
correlation, the CHF testing and data, the subchannel 7
analysis code, the correlation development and 8
performance, and then the correlation assessment and 9
statistical analysis. Next slide, please?
10 This is a list of acronyms that are common 11 throughout the presentation slides. Next, please?
12 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Well, at this point, 13 this is the end of your presentation.
14 MR. ANGHELESCU: It is through, yes.
15 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: So, if you could give 16 us a summary? I see you don't have a slide here that 17 summarizes. What have you done? What is the ORFEO 18 correlation used for? And what are the conclusions?
19 Anything that you can say in the open session, nothing 20 propriety.
21 MR. ANGHELESCU: Yes, I can discuss a 22 little bit of correlation. So, essentially, ORFEO-HMP 23 CHF correlation is applicable to the HTP fuel assembly 24 design. This is a standardized fuel assembly design 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
14 that's produced by Framatome and delivered to our 1
customers.
2 The HMP correlation is applicable for the 3
entire fuel end of the assembly. In terms of 4
regulatory requirements, we use 10 CFR 50, GDC 10. IN 5
terms of CHF data, we collect the data in each of the 6
facilities and the data was not new for this 7
correlation. It was before.
8 In terms of subchannel code analysis, we 9
use COBRA-FLX, which is fully approved by the NRC.
10 For correlation development and performance, we use 11 the framework that is described in NUREG-0013, and the 12 statistical analysis was performed using standardized 13 statistical methods. That's pretty much it.
14 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Okay, thank you very 15 much.
16 MR. ANGHELESCU: Thank you.
17 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: So, at this point, we 18 will transfer the open session to the staff which has 19 a little more longer slides.
20 MEMBER KIRCHNER: Jose, this is Walt. I 21 have a question for levity.
22 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Please.
23 MEMBER KIRCHNER: What does ORFEO stand 24 for? Orfeo is famous Greek mythology and Monteverdi's 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
15 first modern opera, in fact, the first modern opera is 1
1600s. So, what's ORFEO stand for?
2 MR. ANGHELESCU: So, yes, it comes from 3
the Greek mythology, I believe. I didn't propose this 4
name, but the idea was not to produce here an acronym, 5
but to take a name from history, from the past, so it 6
doesn't stand for anything in particular.
7 MR. KAIZER: When we went to see some test 8
data -- Jeff Kaizer, NRC staff. The staff visited the 9
Karlstein test facility and we actually commented on 10 it. I think I lost a dollar because I was sure that 11 AREVA was just trying to spell Oreo and misspelled it.
12 But they, I think, had a number of things 13 that were developed that were based on that kind of 14 Greek literature, and I'm not sure if ARITA falls in 15 there because I don't know about that area, but I know 16 there were a number of different names. They were 17 trying to come up with some interesting back stories.
18 MR. ANGHELESCU: ARITA is an acronym.
19 ARTEMIS is from the Greek mythology, I believe.
20 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Excellent. Any more 21 questions?
22 MR. KAIZER: All right, so Josh Kaizer, 23 NRC staff. I was the lead reviewer for this, and 24 primarily the reason we're here is the COBRA-FLX 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
16 ORFEO-HMP critical heat flux correlation, but there 1
was also another correlation associated with this, 2
which was the Biasi CHR correlation, and they looked 3
very different if you saw the documents that came in.
4 One came in as a supplement to a topical.
5 One seemed to come in under, I think it was EMF 23-10 6
as a supplement, but they were both CHF correlations.
7 They came in around the same time, and so the staff 8
reviewed them pretty much at the same time.
9 It was because when you're looking at CHF 10 correlations, you're generally looking at the same 11 things, so it was just a very good efficiency gain and 12 the -- I remember having the discussion with my branch 13 chief at the time, Bob Lukes, about how we would 14 perform this review.
15 The NRC staff, like everybody else, you're 16 always worried about okay, we take, use this as a 17 training exercise for someone new, have them more 18 involved in it, and at the time, we said, you know, 19 we've developed this NUREG. We've used this NUREG a 20 lot. We want to see how much we can actually push 21 this.
22 And I kind of thought and discussed it 23 with my branch chief and said we have two options.
24 One, we can have someone else do the review and I can 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
17 kind of do a peer review, or two, we can say okay, if 1
we really needed to, how fast can we get these reviews 2
done? And my branch chief said let's try that second 3
one, so that was kind of the main focus.
4 We wanted to use this as, I'd say 5
demonstration cases, even though this NUREG has been 6
used a number of times by different individuals, but 7
this was okay, how good can it get? So, the joint 8
review was also a new aspect. Sorry.
9 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Yeah, first, for the 10 transcript, you're talking about NUREG-KM?
11 MR. KAIZER: Correct, yes.
12 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: I&C still says draft.
13 MR. KAIZER: Yes.
14 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: It was like four years 15 that we've been --
16 MR. KAIZER: Yes, and I'm glad you're 17 yelling at me for this because the last time I 18 presented in front of the ACRS, I specifically asked 19 you guys to yell at me to get the NUREG-KM done 20 because I had had it mostly done. I had a couple of 21 public comments, some changes to make, and it was very 22 hard, but I had resources to it.
23 I mean, I just had, every time I'd go 24 back, there was always other things popping up, and 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
18 because I knew I had to come back here today, after 1
you yelled at me then, I made sure that earlier this 2
week, I actually turned it all over to the person who 3
is doing peer review.
4 So, I was literally writing Tuesday, 5
finishing it up. Okay, I've got all of the comments 6
addressed. I've got all of the updates. It's now 7
going to that peer review person.
8 I expect Newsham (phonetic), she'll 9
probably look at it within a month or two because of 10 just other priorities, and then after that, it will go 11 to OGC to be finalized.
12 So, I am, I'm grateful for that, and we 13 actually used the ACRS letter as a part of the 14 abstract in the NUREG saying hey, we not only 15 developed it, but we used this and it works.
16 Side note, I do a lot of stuff for VVUQ 17 and everybody loves coming up with frameworks. Oh, 18 you should use this framework to determine if you can 19 trust your model or simulation. And the biggest 20 problem with almost every framework I've seen is 21 nobody validates them.
22 Nobody actually uses their framework and 23 says hey, does this actually work? And I think that's 24 one of the biggest advantages of this framework.
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19 We've used it and I was counting coming in this 1
morning. It's about ten or 11 times, and so it's been 2
really successful. It works.
3 We wanted to focus on efficiency, review 4
efficiency, and here we got very, I'll say lucky, 5
fortunate. Framatome, and I don't know, okay, yeah, 6
so Framatome provided a very high-quality submittal, 7
and the NRC has used that term multiple times and it's 8
sometimes hard to judge what it is, but here, I think, 9
a high-quality submittal was a submittal that 10 addresses all of the things that you need to make that 11 regulatory decision.
12 And so, what you're going to hear more in 13 the closed session are there weren't really any major 14 issues. Like almost always when I go to a CHF 15 correlation, there are certain major issues that I 16 find. Here, Framatome had already found them and 17 addressed them, and so when I was reading the topical, 18 it was like well, there's not a ton for me here to do.
19 On those couple of issues -- oh, okay, on 20 those couple of issues where we did have some minor 21 review issues, and we'll go into those and that's what 22 I'm going to highlight, Framatome actually kind of 23 thought about those, addressed those, already had the 24 plots, just didn't put it in the topical.
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
20 So, I think that having this type of 1
NUREG, having this very clear technical guidance, it 2
allows high quality submittals to go through, and I 3
think M.J. said like we had a cost savings of review 4
time of like over 50 percent, so compared to other 5
topicals, the review time for this was less than 50 6
percent --
7 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: So, in your opinion, 8
NUREG-KM-0013 was not only used for the review, but it 9
was also used to generate a topical report?
10 MR. KAIZER: Yeah.
11 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: So, they used it with 12 your review in mind.
13 MR. KAIZER: Yeah.
14 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA:
So,
- that, the 15 fastness, and the quickness, and the efficiency of the 16 review --
17 MR. KAIZER: Yeah.
18 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: -- was a two-way 19 street.
20 MR. KAIZER: Yeah, for us, and it's 21 similar to like a reg guide where a reg guide, ideally 22 the reg guide is what the industry gets and they write 23 their document according to the reg guide, and then 24 the standard review plan is what the staff uses to 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
21 review the document.
1 Sometimes there isn't a one to one parity 2
between the two, but usually the industry knows hey, 3
this is what the staff is going to look for, and so 4
here, because we were able to clearly say hey, these 5
are all of the things we're looking for, we could get 6
that.
7 It's important to me as a regulator that 8
I don't want my review to just be an extra 200 or 300 9
hours. To me, the goal is to bring every approved 10 method up to a certain level, and if it comes in very 11 far below the level, it might take 200 or even 2,000 12 hours1.388889e-4 days <br />0.00333 hours <br />1.984127e-5 weeks <br />4.566e-6 months <br /> to bring it up to the level, but if that method 13 is already really close to at that level, it should 14 just be documentation and that's it.
15 So, I think having this type of reg guide 16 or, sorry, NUREG is extremely helpful in that area.
17 I think Joy has a comment or question.
18 MEMBER REMPE: Sure, thank you. I was 19 impressed with the opening statements made on your 20 behalf, Josh, and I know what you mean when you say 21 that ACRS was yelling at you, that you meant that we 22 gently nudged you, but this is the transcript for it 23 that can be preserved, and some folks, and I can't 24 imagine why, think ACRS isn't a friendly, professional 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
22 organization, and so perhaps we ought to correct the 1
transcript to -- I was present in those meetings and 2
I don't think anyone yelled at you at all.
3 (Laughter.)
4 MEMBER REMPE: So, if you don't mind, for 5
ACRS'
- benefit, perhaps some corrections or 6
modifications to that statement?
7 MR. KAIZER: Absolutely. To clarify, I 8
requested the ACRS, well, I say yell at me, but I 9
asked that you guys provide me with that deadline 10 because I knew that if you provided me with a 11 deadline, I would now have a justification, and then 12 you certainly provided me with the deadline and then 13 I could actually meet that deadline. So, is that --
14 hopefully that's a good enough correction.
15 MEMBER REMPE: Yes, that's a more, I 16 think, factual way of putting it. Thank you very 17 much.
18 MR. KAIZER: Sure.
19 DR. SCHULTZ: Josh, this is Steve Schultz.
20 Just for clarity in terms of the overall process, in 21 using the NUREG and setting up for this review, then 22 early on in the process, you set the structure that's 23 shown in the safety evaluation?
24 MR. KAIZER: Yes, this is the --
25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
23 DR. SCHULTZ: All of the elements that --
1 MR. KAIZER: Yeah.
2 DR. SCHULTZ: -- would be essentially 3
filled in by you at the end of the evaluation so that 4
the applicant, so Framatome knew what was expected --
5 MR. KAIZER: Yes.
6 DR. SCHULTZ: -- right from the outset --
7 MR. KAIZER: Yes.
8 DR. SCHULTZ: -- and could work on 9
developing the details for your review throughout the 10 process?
11 MR. KAIZER: Correct, I would say the 12 structure was, I think the first time we were really 13 developing it was in 2017. So, I mean, we had 14 previously used this with the OREFO-CHF correlation.
15 I think that was actually one of the first ones that 16 we used the NUREG on, so Framatome was well aware of 17 it.
18 On a side note, we've had some challenges 19 with some critical heat flux and critical power, 20 because this works for both correlations, where we've 21 seen some interesting data appear in the real world, 22 and one of the things that made us very happy with the 23 framework was those challenges didn't have us adjust 24 the framework, like the framework already had areas 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
24 where it would identify those.
1 So, this is, I think, is very robust in 2
terms of if you can address all of these issues, then 3
you have a CHF or critical power correlation that can 4
be considered credible.
5 DR. SCHULTZ: That helped with our review 6
also.
7 MR. KAIZER: Yeah. So, the summary for 8
the open session, we think the credibility frameworks, 9
we know they can resolve the large efficiency 10 increases. On average, it's about 50 percent. I've 11 actually got a couple of different data points for 12 that where I've seen that consistently.
13 And I think one of the major issues here, 14 or not major issues, but major benefits is that while 15 I think these frameworks are good in general for 16 bringing all reviews up to the same standard, if you 17 do give a high-quality review, you can get that much 18 faster turnaround at less resources.
19 And then the last thing, which is what 20 you'll see mostly in the closed slides, is I'll go 21 over those remaining issues that Framatome didn't 22 address and just how they were easily resolved.
23 So, yeah, the final is my conclusion. The 24 NRC staff believes the CHF correlation's design limit 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
25 has the same predictive capability as other 1
correlations the staff had previously approved. So, 2
that is the end of my open session if there are any 3
questions or comments.
4 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Thank you, Josh. Any 5
more comments or questions from the members?
6 MEMBER KIRCHNER: Jose, I think I should 7
finish the story. It's rather early in the morning.
8 Orfeo went into the underworld to rescue his beloved, 9
Eurydice, and he sang so well that he convinced the 10 gods of the underworld to let her come back to the, 11 you know, the real world, but on the way back, there 12 was a condition.
13 Don't look back, but he did, and they 14 turned her into stone. So, my -- I guess the lesson 15 here or the parable is don't look back. Move forward.
16 Let's get onto the closed session.
17 (Laughter.)
18 CHAIR MARCH-LEUBA: Any more Orfeo 19 references? So, at this point, I would like to open 20 the microphone to any members of the public that would 21 want to raise a comment on the record? If so, just 22 unmute yourself and state your comments.
23 Hearing none, we are going to go on a 24 recess on this line. In a moment, we are going to 25 NEAL R. GROSS COURT REPORTERS AND TRANSCRIBERS 1716 14th STREET, N.W., SUITE 200 (202) 234-4433 WASHINGTON, D.C. 20009-4309 www.nealrgross.com
26 transfer to the closed session, which is to say 1
everybody that is somebody has a link to the closed 2
session, but it's going to take us ten minutes to 3
unmute everybody in the lobby to make sure that they 4
are allowed to see the proprietary information.
5 So, let's restart at 9:10. So, we'll go 6
on recess until 9:10. We will not come back to this 7
line and we will continue the meeting on the closed 8
link. So, we're on recess.
9 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went 10 off the record at 8:56 a.m.)
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NRC Staff Safety Evaluation:
COBRA-FLX: ORFEO-HMP Critical Heat Flux Correlation (open session)
Joshua Kaizer NRR/DSS/SFNB February 16, 2023
ORFEO-HMP and Biasi CHF
- Demonstration cases of DRAFT NUREG/KM-0013 - CHF CAF.
- Two topical reports were performed in a joint review.
- Review efficiency was a large focus.
- NUREG was necessary for maintaining the same standard.
- NUREG demonstrated that these were high quality submittals.
Summary
- Creditability Assessment Frameworks can result in large efficiency increases -
estimated resource savings of over 50%.
- Framatome had already addressed the major issues which would have been the staff concerns.
- The NRC staff raised some minor issues which were easily dispositioned.
- The NRC staff believes the CHF correlation and its associated design limit has the same predicative capability as the other CHF correlations that staff has previously approved.
The ORFEO-HMP Critical Heat Flux Correlation Mihnea Anghelescu, US PWR Fuels, Framatome Rockville, MD, 02/16/2023
The ORFEO-HMP CHF Correlation - Mihnea Anghelescu - ACRS Meeting - 02/16/2023
© Framatome - All rights reserved CONTENT
- 1. HTP Fuel Assembly
- 2. Regulatory Requirements
- 3. CHF Testing and Data
- 4. Subchannel Analysis Code
- 5. Correlation Development and Performance
- 6. Correlation Assessment and Statistical Analysis 2
The ORFEO-HMP CHF Correlation - Mihnea Anghelescu - ACRS Meeting - 02/16/2023
© Framatome - All rights reserved Acronyms 3
ANOVA
- Analysis of Variance
ARITA
- ARTEMIS/RELAP Integrated Transient Analysis Methodology
BOHL
- Beginning of Heated Length
CE14x14
- Combustion Engineering type 14x14 fuel assembly design for PWRs
CE16x16
- Combustion Engineering type 16x16 fuel assembly design for PWRs
- Critical Heat Flux
- Departure from Nucleate Boiling
EOHL
- End of Heated Length
GAIA
- Framatomes PWR fuel assembly and grid design
GT
- Guide Tube
IFM
- Intermediate Flow Mixer
HMP
- HMP grid design
HTP
- HTP grid design
M/P
- Measured CHF divided by predicted CHF
- Main Steam Line Break
OEFEO
- Framatomes CHF correlation form for PWR fuel assemblies
- Pressurized Water Reactor
W15x15
- Westinghouse type 15x15 fuel assembly design for PWRs
W17x17
- Westinghouse type 17x17 fuel assembly design for PWRs
The ORFEO-HMP CHF Correlation - Mihnea Anghelescu - ACRS Meeting - 02/16/2023
© Framatome - All rights reserved Begin CLOSED SESSION 4