ML22230A117

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Tran-M790731: Public Meeting Continuation of Discussion of Issues in Restart of TMI-1
ML22230A117
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Issue date: 07/31/1979
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RETURN TO SECRETARIAT REC l=lD~

NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION IN THE MATTER OF:

PUBLIC MEETING CONTINUA~ION OF DISCUSSION OF ISSUES IN RESTART OF ' TMI-1 Piece - Washington, D. C.

Octe - Tuesday , 31 Jul y 1979 Pcges 1- 4 2

  • A.CE - FEDERAL REPORTERS, lt'l"C.

Teleohon 9 :

(202 ) 347-3 700 Official Reporters 444 North Capitol Street Washington, D.C. 20001 NATIONWIDE COVERAGI: - DAILY

1

  • /

f I

  • DISCLAIMER This is an unofficial transcript of a meeting of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission held on* Tuesday, 31 July 1979 in the Commissions's offices at 1717 H Street, N. W., Washington, D. C. The meeting was open to public attendance and observation. This transcript has not been reviewed, corrected, or edited, and i t may contain inaccuracies.

The transcript is intended solely for general informational purposes. As provided by 10 CFR 9.103, i t is not part _of the formal or informal record of decision of the matters discussed. Expressions of opinion in*this transcript do not necessarily reflect final determinations or beliefs. No pleading or other paper may be filed with the Commission in any proceeding .as _the result of or addressed to any statement or argument *contained_here;i.n, except as the Commission may authorize. * *

  • 2 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA 2 NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
  • 3 4

5 PUBLIC MEETING CONTINUATION OF1>1DISCUSSION OF ISSUES IN RESTART OF TMI-1 6

7 8 Room 1137 1717 H Street, N. W.

9 Washington, D. C.

10 Tuesday, 31 July 1979 11 The Commission met, pursuant to notice, at 1:10 p.m.

12 BEFORE:

  • 13 14 15 DR. JOSEPH M. HENDRIE, Chairman VICTOR GILINSKY, Commissioner RICHARDT. KENNEDY, Commissioner 16 PETER A. BRADFORD, Commissioner 17 JOHN F. AHEARNE, Commissioner 18 PRESENT:

19 Messrs. Bickwit, Ostrach, and Crane.

20 21

  • 22 23 I 24 Ace- ederal Reporters, Inc.

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CR 6245 3 HEER t-1 mte 1 P R O C E E D I N G S 2 (1:10 p.m.)

3 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Why don't we kick off. The 4 subject is the TMI-1 order.

5 We have some comments from the general counsel to 6 assist us in getting on with the discussion of the order. I 7 think, Len, do you want to tell us where you have gone here, 8 and then we will move on from there?

9 MR. BICKWIT: Yes. In this memo, we have attempted 10 I to summarize the results of Friday's discussion and draft 11 some la.nguage in accordance with agreements that were reached.

12 Where no agreements were reached, we tried to draft up the I

  • 13 14 15 options.

We have also included some options for the items that were not addressed on Friday ..

16 As the first order of business, we suggest that a 17 draft order which would extend the period of time for issuance 18 of the supplementary order to the July 2nd order, on the 19 assumption that you won't finish up by the expiration period 20 or the required period for a new order, which is tomorrow.

21 The draft order is Attachment A to the memo. And we have a

  • 22 23 2,1 few proposed additions to that draft order, if the Commission is included to go ahead with something of that nature.

COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Was that on the assumption Alederal Reporters, Inc.

2.5 that we continue with the research briefing, that you didn't

mte 2 4 think we could make it?

2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I'm not sure whether we will make

  • 3 4

5 i t by going through the afternoon. I have had some expression of interest and a little time to think about some of these things, and we might or might not reach a majority decision 6 on an order if we cancel the briefing. But I don't have any 7 place to take the budget.

8 I think we need to go ahead with that briefing, to 9 have such discussion as we can reasonably have between now and lO I 2:30, and to continue with TMI-1 meetings, which I will 11 sandwich in. There may be some further work the counsel could 12 do for us leading out of today's discussion, just as the

  • 13 14 15 memoranda in hand flowed out of the last discussion.

COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

deal to be said.

It seems to me there's a good We ought to try to make these deadlines if 16 we possibly can, end I think there is as much money involved 17 here as in the research budget.

18 It would seem to me not inappropriate to push on.

19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Well, since I have reason to 20 believe that there won't be a unanimity of view on the I

21 Commission, and since on other occasions and on other subjects 22 we have all variously deferred to one another where somebody 23 wanted more time to mull over circumstances, why, I don't reall 4I 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

feel that we can make it.

25 What I do have in mind -- I don't know whether we

. l.

rote 3 5 can manage the meeting tomorrow or Thursday -- we will if we 2 can manage it. But in particular, what do people's schedules

  • 3 4

5 look like on Friday afternoon? Now, Peter has got to go away Thursday afternoon and Friday morning, but could be back.

COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I would suggest tomorrow, if 6 we could. We're scheduled tomorrow afternoon for a preliminar 7 budget markup. And I would suggest, as far as I am concerned, 8 before doing any preliminary budget markup, I would at least 9 like to take a half a day to think through, having heard all 10 I of the budget reviews. So I would suggest tomorrow afternoon 11 is good.

12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I can't do that. I've got

  • 13 14 15 to be in East Lansing tomorrow night -- no, I'm sorry.

Thursday night.

CHAIRJYlAN HENDRIE:

That's So tomorrow: afternoon, as I reca11i I

I 16 i t is Wednesday afternoon. I think everybody is here. Why 17 don't we try that?,

18 Dick, we're talking about further meetings on TMI 19 and an expression of interest on pressing forward. It looks 20 as though we could put in some substantial time tomorrow 21 afternoon by doing without that markup session or all or a good

  • 22 23 piece of it. Is that too soon for you?

COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I don't know what my calendar

-- 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 shows. Otherwise it's fine.

CHAIRJl.1AN HENDRIE: I think if you can manage it,

mte 4 6

- 2 Peter, let me know as soon as you can what the difficulties are on Friday.

  • 3 4

5 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:

here, I can get back.

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

If the rest of you can be Okay, let's try and do that.

6 Sam, let us note here that we will go to TMI-1 7 tomorrow afternoon and Friday afternoon.

8 Now, I guess the Friday afternoon session, Sam, why 9 don't we put budget markup session or TMI-1, because if we lO I don't *need i t for one we will need it for the other. And if 11 you have trouble with that, Peter, why, give me a holler.

12 Vic, you are going to be away Thursday afternoon as

  • 13 14 15 well, but you are going to be back on Friday?

COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

I don't think so.

Well, why don't we go ahead. I 16 think i t would be useful as a first step, since, as I say, I 17 am not inclinied to think that it will take us a couple of 18 more days discussion. I think we ought to amend as we see fit 19 the extension order to the 10th and agree on the language of 20 that, and turn to the other issues back in the base order.

21 Len, did you say you had things to add to it or

  • 22 23 24 subtract from it?

MR. BICKWIT: Yes. As drafted, the reference in the first sentence to "further order" may be confusing when it's Alederal Reporters, Inc.

2.5 put together with the reference in.the second sentence to

mte 5 7 further order, since we mean something different by that. So 2 to differentiate, we would say at the end of the first sentence, 3 "further order of the Commission itself permitting restart,"

4 period, and then strike "further" in the second sentence. So 5 that the second sentence would read: "Provided that it would 6 also issue an order within 30 days." And in the third sen-7 tence strike "further" again.

8 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I would have struck most of 9 the sentence. It doesn't even necessarily represent an adequat 10 description of the facts.

11 MR. BICKWIT: Our feeling was that it did.

12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I think all it says is the

  • 13 14 15 Commission has not yet completed resolution of all the legal and technical issues involved, accordingly. I don't wish to characterize the progress or lack thereof, nor do I think it 16 relevant.

17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I have no problem with 18 striking that out.

19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Any objection to doing without 20 "substantial practice"? "'I'he Commission has not yet completed, 21 accordingly," et cetera. Good enough?

22 23 24 Commission?

Let's see. Can I ask for a decision of the COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Are we finished with that Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 sentence? I have another change.

mte 6 8

- 2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

Go ahead.

I think verbosity is not

- 3 4

5 needed, either. I think the last sentence need only say:

"Accordingly, the Commission hereby extends the period of time.'

CHAJS.RMAN HENDRIE: What would you recommend now?

6 "Accordingly, the Commission" --

7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: "Extends the period of time 8 until Friday, August 10th.

9 CHAI.RMAN HENDRIE: Objections from anyone? The 10 I legal staff, Commmissioners, what have you?

11 MR. BICKWIT: No, that is perfectly legal.

12 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: So now it is not only factuall

  • 13 14 15 correct, but legal.

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

additions or subtractions?

Let's see. Do we have any other 16 (No response.)

17 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Let's see. We will need this 18 order -- I think we're going to need this order, because by 19 the time you get there, even if we were in complete agreement 20 tomorrow afternoon -- I think we ought to just vote for it with 21 the understanding that if it becomes unnecessary because we

  • 22 23 241 all agree with one or another of this this afternoon in 15 minutes, why, it won't go out .

On that basis, I would ask us to -- all those in

  • ederal Reporters, Inc.

25 favor of the extension in the order as amended, to indicate

mte 7 9

- 2 by saying aye.

(A chorus of ayes.)

  • 3 4

5 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: So ordered .

Now, back to substantive matters.

the issues listed Let's see.

we have hacked away at, we had a sort of Of 6 tentative agreement on the language involved in the Commission 7 review of licensing board decisions on cross-examination. On 8 discovery it was kind of a split proposition. It was a 2-1-1 9 division of the house.

10 I Why don't we review that and see if we can either 11 confirm in the way that came out or come to another decision?

12 Len, would you help us distinguish between the 9ptions, and

  • 13 14 15 let's see where people would like to move.

MR. OSTRACH: There a.re three options COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

on discovery.

Before we get to this, one 16 minor thing. In passing by the language which is included in 17 A and B of Roman II, I assume that we are not signifying 18 assent to or acquiescence in this as language. I am not 19 prepared to. give that.

20 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Certainly not in any finally and 21 irrevocable sense .

  • 22 23 know.

COMMISS[:ONER KENNEDY:

That's fine.

Fine. That's all I wanted to

- 24 Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

2.5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE:

significant substantive matters?

But Dick, do you have some

mte 8 10 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I want to have the opportunity 2 to look at it, which I have not had.

  • 3 4

5 MR. OSTRACH: There are three options for discovery .

The first would be to compile a repository of all information about the Three Mile Island accident and to require parties 6 in the TMI proceeding to resort first to that information 7 compilation before resorting to any discovery against one 8 another. Any party who then does wish i'r.to employ the 9 discovery process against another party would have to satisfy 10 1 the licensing board that the information he or seeks is rele-ll vant to the proceeding, is not available in the data compila-12 tion, and that permitting the discovery will not result in an

  • 13 14 15 undue delay or impose an undue burden on any party.

And at the last session we discussed that our intention in using the word "undue" there was delay or burden 16 out of proportion to the relevance of the information sought.

17 The second option would be to provide that the 18 Commission's normal rules for discovery in adjudicatory 19 proceedings would apply to this TMI-1 proceeding. It would 20 also create a compilation which would be available for the 21 parties, and it would also provide that it would be an adequate

  • 22 23 24 I response to a discovery request to say that the information sought is available in the compilation, provided the person asking for the request provides sufficient information to

.ederal Reporters, Inc.

25 locate the document.

mte 9 11 This would then be concluded by saying the licensing 2 board may, and when appropriate should, in the interest of 3 justice, limit the extent or control the sequence of discovery 4 to prevent undue delay or imposition of an undue burden on any 5 party. That is a power that it already has under the 6 Commission's regulations.

7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Is that a direct cite to 8 the regulations?

9 MR. OSTRACH: It is not a direct quotation from the 10 I regulations. I believe each of the words is in the sections 11 of the regulations that we refer to. We move them around a 12 little bit .

  • 13 14 15 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Could you explain that a bit more when you say you move them around?

MR. OSTRACH: I.can read you the regulations.

16 2740(c) provides for protective orders. It says that" "In a 17 discovery proceeding the presiding officer may make any order 18 which justice requires to protect a party or person from 19 annoyance, embarrassment, oppression or undue burden or expense" 20 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: How has "embarrassment" been 21 defined? No, donlt worry. That is just an example that comes

  • 22 23 24 to mind.

MR. OSTRACH: The licensing board has power to provide the discovery, except certain matters may not be

.ederal Reporters, Inc.

25 inquired into. The scope of the discovery may be limited to

mte 10 12

- 2 certain matters or the discovery won't be on certain subjects.

2740(d) provides that: "The presiding :officer, for

- 3 4

5 the convenience of parties and witnesses, and in the interest of justiice, may control the order by which methods of discovery or the sequence by which methods of discovery may be used."

6 MR. BICKWIT: I think the short answer is when we 7 use the word "may" that is parroting the order; when we say 8 "should" that is going a slight step beyond.

9 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: What's the difference between lO I the second and third?

11 MR. OSTRACH: The last sentence.

12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: No. 3 simply lacks the admonition

  • 13 14 15 that the licensing board may and when appropriate, et ceterla, et cetera.

COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I know. But I'm asking if 16 that is really a difference, because the regulations call for 17 that anyway.

18 MR. BICKWIT: The regulations say "may." This says 19 "where appropriate, should."

20 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: You visualize that as a I

21 significant difference?

  • 22 23 24 MR. BICKWIT:

MR. OSTRACH:

No.

Its only significance might lie in the fact that in normal practice licensing boards, like federal

.ederal Reporters, Inc.

25 courts, do not participate at all in discovery proceedings

mte 11 13

- 2 unless the parties really bring an issue to them, and they view their role as essentially passive. By pointing out to a

- 3 4

5 licensing board the availability of these alternatives, it might be more willing to take an active role in monitoring discov,ery.

6 But certainly it already has each of these powers 7 and there was no intent here to give i t any powers that it 8 otherwise would not have.

9 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: It seems kind of odd to be 10 I reminding them of the rules, unless we are in fact instructing 11 them to take certain a:::tions. I mean, do you interpret this 12 as an instruction or just a reminder?

  • 13 14 15 MR. BICKWIT: An instruction, where appropriate.

COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:

interest of justice.

Where appropriate in the 16 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: There's an interesting column 17 in this morning's "Washington Post" concerning the word 18 "appropriate." It is instructive in itself.

19 CHAI.RMAN HENDRIE: Other comments?

20 I

21 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Someone writing in to us,

  • 22 23 24 bringing the board in into the issue of trying to decide ques-tions of when discovery should be allowed and to what extent would, rather than expedite, could very well just bring on a

.Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 new morass of paper and slow things down.

mte 12 14 MR. BICKWIT: We addressed that in our previous 2 memo, and it does add and subtract. In our view, it would 3 speed things up rather than slow them down. It is not as if 4 the board played no function in discovery and the rules are 5 no motions or pieces of paper in the absence of this. It 6 deals with it at a different stage.

7 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Let me ask: If this is in 8 fact not a reminder, but an instruction, why would you give 9 different instructions to this proceeding than in other 10 I proceedings?

11 MR. BICKWIT: My answer would be that, first of all, 12 it is an instruction that I would be comfortable giving in

  • 13 14 15 every proceeding.

Secondly, in this case there is no denying that there is sentiment on the Commission to move as quickly as possible, 16 in light of the fact that this plant is down and there is feel-17 ing that if it should operate, the proceeding ought to move as 18 quickly as possible to so allow it.

19 MR. OSTRACH: There is the point that this is a plant 20 shut down subject to an immediate order. These people have 21 not had the benefit of a hearing before the order ordering 22 23 24 J shutdown was conducted.

This is simply a reminder, if any, to the board that it should keep that fact in mind.

Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: That reinforces my thought

mte 13 15

  • 3 2

that the counsel's acceptance of that principal as a general principal is a wise one. I couldn't imagine distinguishing this from other cases in the interest of justice.

4 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: That was exactly my diffi-5 culty. It really does seem to me that unless one is somehow 6 underlining this proceeding and saying, in this one we want 7 you to emphasize this section more than you normally do, there 8 just isn't any reason for including it. Now, I do see it 9 working both ways. That is, if you pick through the right 10 I phrases you get something to the effect that the board may, 11 when it's appropriate in the interest of justice, prevent 12 burdens in discovery of any party against any other party .

  • 13 14 15 And there are obvious situations where they shall.

That doesn't speak to the question of whether the hearing will move more or less quickly, but whether one or 16 more parties will be more or less burdened. But that too is 17 already in the rules.

18 19 20 I

21

  • 22 23

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25

CR 6245 #2 HEER/pv 16

--- 2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I think there are distinguishing features that make the promptness aspect, bring it a little bit

  • 3 4

5 more to the fore here. The normal CP case or OL case, why, the parties are well aware when these things will arrive* at appro-priate stages for hearing. So, discovery could be carried out 6 over a reasonable period while other things are going on.* That 7 may or may not be the case here.

8 We are sort of starting from scratch, and I at leas~

9 have expressed on several ocoa~ions concern over the length of 10 time that apparently is required in this,proceeding or will be 11 required in this proceeding to come to a decision. It seems 12 to me that whether it is up, down, or sideways , that we owe I as:J

  • l3 14 15 expeditious a decisionmaking process to the parties as is con-sistent with fair and adequate treatment of the issues.

Let me resound the 2-1-1 split, since there is an 16 additional vote, and see if I can devleop a direction out of 17 this.

18 Vic, you didn't get your two cents' worth in before.

19 COMMISSIONER .GILINSKY: Well, I would think the usual 20 rules would apply. I certainly don't object to a general state-2l ment in the order saying we would like this to be a proceeding

  • 22 23 24 which is handled with some discipline, but as for the specific questions of discovery, I would treat it as we have handled other proceedings.
  • ,-.. -Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: So that would put you at three or

pv2 17

--- 2 perhaps two.

Okay, we have managed, then, eithe_r a 2-2-1 or 2-1-2.

3 Could I encourage, in the interest of seeing whether we could 4

move this point, would people be interested in converging on 5 Option 2, since it is in the middle?

6 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I would not.

7 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Let me sample the other side of 8 the thing.

9 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: What were you doing?

10 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I was trying to see whether people 11 would be interested iB moving off the extremes toward the middle 12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Toward Option 3?

13 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Toward Option 2. You're trying to 14 count me into a corner. And Commissioner Kennedy will continue 15 to feel that the first option is the right one.

16 Do I get any other sentiment?

17 John has stood there since the beginning, so I guess 18 he will continue.

19 Vic, did you ever decide between 2 and 3?

20 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, I would go with 3.

21 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Are either of you interested

  • 22 in moving up to 2, to see if I can develop a consensus in the 23 middle?

- 24 Mee-Federal Reporters, Inc.

COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I would be intersted in know-25 ing what John is considering.*

pv3 18 i __

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: If he goes away, that could develop 2 a majority somewhere else.

I 3

4 5

COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:

him before the meeting.

I guess I should have met with COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Yes. 2 still seems to me to be 6 the appropriate approach. Perhaps Peter and I can meet after 7 the meeting. But I would still think 2 is the right way.

8 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Well, let's see if I can't pry 9 somebody loose to move toward the center.

10 I COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Well, it's obviously going to 11 be 3, with - or wi,thout ,*that sentence. We just have to work it 12 out .

  • 13 14 15 isn't it?

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE:

COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

Or the first option.

That seems kind of unlikely; 16 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I don't know. It is 2-1-2. If 17 you have a reason why it should more. likely move down than up, 18 why, help me along.

19 Well, let's leave it 2-1-2, 'for the moment.

20 How about the satisfactory completion of required 21 actions. We agreed last time that the condition that qbtains

  • A 22 23 24 for an OL is a reasonable way to leave it.

version of the right way to reflect that.

The immediate effectiveness question And this is counsel's

°Te-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 MR. BICKWIT: Mr. Chairman, before you move on, let

pv4 19 me just make two points about that language so you are clear.

2 In the draft there is reference to the fact that this satisfac-

!* 3 4

tory completion shall not be an issue in the hearing, and we understand this language as modifying that language, so that it 5 would be possible for this to become at issue at*the hearing at 6 the board's discretion.

7 And secondly, it is not precisely the same as OL 8 treatment, the way we had drafted it, because the OL rule that 9 we are referencing allows for operation prior to satisfactory 10  ! completion of some items, and we had understood in your previ-11 ous discussions that you wanted completion as a condition to 12 operation .

  • 13 14 15 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: That's not what I visualized.

As a matter of fact, I wrote in my notes that we were going to proceed on the same basis as with an OL.

16 MR. BICKWIT: It was unclear to us. That is why I 17 raised the point. It was unclear to us exactly where the Com-18 mission was.

19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: At least now my view is clear.

20 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: In the case of an OL, they can I

21 proceed without satisfactory completion; that is, completion 22 satisfactory to the staff. So, you' re talking here not about 23 !having -- or in the OL case, not about having the board be 24 satisfied, but having the staff be satisfied?

Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 MR. BICKWIT: Yes. Unless the board wants to be

pv5 20 satisfied, in which case it can be.

2 Let me read from 50. 57 (b) .,-, It says: "Each operating

  • 3 4

5 license will include appropriate provision with respect to any uncompleted items of construction, and such limitations or con-ditions as are required to ensure that operations during the 6 period of the completion of such items will not endanger public 7 health and safety. It is contemplated that operation would be 8 allowed prior to completion."

9 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: The way I understood where we lO I were last time is that we were putting the board on the same 11 relationship to operations as a board in an OL proceeding, but 12 that as a separate matter we have said that the staff had to be

  • 13 14 15 satisfied as to the completion of the acti!ons. And in that sense, it would be different from an OL proceeding in which the staff would have some option to permit operation as long as the 16 staff were satisfied that interim steps could be taken.

17 MR. OSTRACH: In one sense, this is different from an 18 operating license proceeding, but in another it isn't, because 19 in a sense, the world of actions is divided into short-term 20 1 actions and long-term actions. And with respect to the long-2l term actions, those are like the actions during which opera.;.. *

  • 22 23 24 tions --

COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: What you're saying is that decision is being made at the point at which we can't --

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25 MR. OSTRACH: Yes, where the licensing board cuts that

__ J

pv6 21 up. And once you analyze it that way, I think the parallel wi:th 2 the OL stage is exact. The board approves the taking of certain

  • 3 4

5 requirement of certain actions, long and short term. As to the short-term ones, the staff says they are completed, and then with the Commission's review that we discussed, prior operation 6 can begin while the long-term actions are being completed.

7 So, I believe the language is essentially consistent 8 with the OL procedures.

9 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Was there any particular I

lO reason for saying the board "shall have authority to require 11 staff," as distinguished from requiring all parties to perform 12 detailed steps?

  • 13 14 15 MR. BICKWIT: Only that, in the normal case, staff would be the ones certifying completion.

naturally turn to staff for such advice.

The board would 16 MR. OSTRACH: Actually, there is another reason, as 17 well. We were considering a situation where the board was going 18 to order certain actions to be taken, contingent only on staff.

19 certification, and the board might want to know, since the staff 20 would have that authority, what staff was going to view as the 21 steps that it was going to approve .

A 22 23 24 For comparison purpose, the parties might want to com-ment on what staff proposed as the detailed steps necessary to effectuate it, but it is only the staff, it is describing what Te-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 they intend to require. That*is why it is only the staff that

pv7 22 is asked, and the parties would then comment, "No, that won't 2 be enough. "

3 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: The only reason I think it 4 may matter is:* In this case, it's at least possible that emer-5 gency preparedness could play a larger role than it does in most 6 OL situations, and you have at least a possibility of parties 7 such as the surrounding towns or the state or others who are 8 going to have a role to play in the programs. That might be 9 of value, too.

10 MR. OSTRACH: We did not intend to prevent those par-ll ties from giving their views on what they thought would be 12 sufficient steps. We thought that would be best done in terms

  • 13 14 15 of commenting on what staff felt it was going to accept as satisfactory completion.

MR. BICKWIT: In the second sentence it says: "With 16 respect to any uncompleted items, the board shall have authority 17 to take such actions or impose such limitations or conditions."

18 By this reading, it will be capable of going to anyone it wants 19 in order to guide it in the imposition of such limitations,and 20 even to have a hearing on the question.

21 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Other comments?

A 22 23 24 (No response.)

  • CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: If we leave the last phrase on there, indeed, the short-term actions which are specified in

'Te-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 the order are aimed at comple:tion before restart.

pv8 23 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Those are consistent with the 2 actions from the other B&W reactors.

3 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Except in that table.

4 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: They are consistent, Dick, provide, I

5 we ~ecognize that there has been a sort of an ongoing develop-6 ment, and that because this one comes later it has more in the 7 initial stages. The other plants will have to do the same 8 things.

9 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I thought that the words lO ! "short-term actions" had a generic sort of mea~~ng.

l1 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: The short-term actions here are I. 12 13 14 not limited to an identical with.

COMMISSIONER KENNEDY:

There are some more of them.

But if an order ala the Rancho Seco or Davis-Besse or any other is going out in this case, it 15 would have ,included those, anyway.

16 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Yes, except for such specific ones 17 that show that you don't get mixed up with TMI-2.

18 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: But they are the sort of class I I

19 of short-term actions that we talked about in the past. So that\

I 20 seems to me to be wholly appropriate_, and, indeed, necessary.

21 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I will note the short-term actions

  • 22 23 include complying with the A regulations of NUREG-0578, and I think it is clear enough from the table, but I will point out that, for instance, that one of the Category A items in that

- 24 1-u:e-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 table is a commitment to a relief and safety valve testing

pv8 24

--. 2 program, which-is going to take an extended period of time.

And the requirement for completion before filling, checking this 3 box on a possible restart decision is that the cormnitment to the 4 program, a program description and schedule, and commitment to 5 it, be made and not that the relief and safety valve testing 6 be completed.

7 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Is that what the words would 8 mean, Len?

9 MR. BICKWIT: Now, you're saying, under these words, 10 I you are saying that completion of the short-term items is a 11 condition.

12 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Well, that's why I bring it up.

13 I had better point out that the so-called "short-term items" in 14 Table B-1 include specimens as follows: Short title emergency 15 power supply requirement, position description, complete imple-16 mentation. That is unambiguous: You do it before you check 17 that box for restart.

18 Next,, relief and safety valve testing is the short 19 title. Position description i~ submit program description and 20 schedule. It appears to me that one conforms with Table B-1.

21 Category A items if you submit the program showing a program 22 23 24 description and schedule and commit to a program that you are indeed not under this language required to complete the testing of the valve. But I think we need to understand that.

.,ce-Federal Reporters, Inc_

25 MR. BICKWIT: Yes, I think that is a reasonable

pv9 25 interpretation. It could be read otherwise in.this language.

2 But I think that is a reasonable interpretation, if that is your 3 understanding.

4 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: If it could be otherwise, then 5 I suggest that we fix the language so i t can't.

6 MR. OSTRACH: Actually, Commissioner, the short-term 7 actions that are defined here, the short-term action that the 8 licensing board is going to order, which may well differ from 9 the short-term actions as describ~d in the notice of hearing 10 I and to the extent that the licensing board, the staff presents 11 to the licensing board that issue that the Chairman was just 12 describing, I am sure that they would present to him such terms

  • 13 14 15 as "submit a recommendation," arid the licensing board would then order that there be some bidded such proposed plan that was taken care of.

16 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Steve, are you saying then that 17 the board, when it says there, "short-term actions," it does 18 not refer to the term "short-term actions" as referenced" in the 19 order?

20 MR. BICKWIT: No. It may change the actions.

21 MR. OSTRACH: These are the ones the Commission. is, in

  • 22 23 24 effect, proposing but the ones the board orders will depend on how the hearing turns out.

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I must say I don't see a need to

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25 change the words. I think:th.~y are all all right. I just want

pvl0 26 to make sure we all understand.

2 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I am getting confused about

  • 3 4

5 what kind of an order this is. This order appears to be an order by the Commission we are sitting and discussing now,reads:

I "The licensee shall take the following actions with respect to TMI-1,~

I I

6 and then it lists all of these things.

7 I assume, since one of them was that the licensee 8 shall comply with Category A recommendations as specified in 9 Table B-1, that he was being ordered to do it and that the 10 licensing board wasn't going to change all that. Yet, that is l1 what I thought I was just hearing.

12 MR. BICKWIT: You were just hearing that.

  • 13 14 15 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: What is it he's supposed to do, then, during the process of the hearing?

MR. BICKWIT:

I I

Ultimately, what he's supposed to do 16 are these actions plus or minus those recommended by the board I

17 and ultimately approved by the Commission. He must do those 18 actions as a condition to restart in his plant. If he chooses l9 to do those that are in this order now, it may be that he is I

20 doing the wrong actions.

21 We will not know that until a conclusion A

22 23 24 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: That's the same discussion we had with respect to the long-term actions.

MR. BICKWIT: That's right.

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25 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Well, why don't we just go back

pvll 27 to my earlier statement?

2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: It may be a more agonized situation

  • 3 4

5 here in many ways, but it's not all that different from either the CP or OL stages. At the CP stage, the applicant has pre-sented an application, he's done a lot of engineering work and 6 invested a lot of money and engineering hour~, if not hardware, 7 on the basis that he understands what is required of him, and I

8 that he is carrying out those things he understands to be 9 required. And he believes that he can make~ case for that.

10 And at the OL, he has built a plant on the basis that ll he believes meets the requirements and will be licensed for 12 operation .

  • 13 14 15 But after all, in neither case does the permit of a i

license issue in fact through a.proceeding, if there is one at the OL stage. There always is one at the cP:stage. Until the 16 proceeding in question is completed, the ini-t;:ial decision is 17 issued, and, in fact, until whatever appeals.are made are worked I 18  !

out. I 19 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I think there is a difference.

20 The Commission has just said -- the Commission which is appoint-21 ing the board has just said -- in order -- he must do these 22 23 24 things.

MR. BICKWIT: We haven't said that.

plated is it would not say that.

What is contem-It would say as a condition

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25 to restart, do whatever the following tells you and whatever the

pvl2 28

-- 2 Commission ultimately says, you do.

COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I am glad we have extended to 3 August 10, because we have a good deal of discussion to go 4 through here.

5 MR. BICKWIT: It says these are our best estimates as I

6 to what you must do as a condition to restart.

7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Okay.

8 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Recognizing discussion to come 9 further on this point, with regard to the language;under com-10 1 pletion of required actions, I guess it still looks all right.

11 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Except for the fact that the 12 counsel suggested that the words might have oeen read differentlt

  • 13 14 15 from the way we understand them. And my sug~estion, in that case, they ought to be rewritten so they will be understooddin the way we understand them.

16 MR. BICKWIT: That can be done, bu~ I just want to add 17 that that may not have any consequence in the end, because, as 18 Steve points out, it will be the board and, flinally, the Com-19 mission that determines what actions are required and what 20 constitutes completion of those actions.

21 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: That is a d~fferent question 22 23 24 that we come to. But first we ought to get these words corrected.

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I think we ought to have a little tag-in with regard to the B-1 table, just to avoid the implica-I

,...,.;e-Federal Reporters, Inc.

25 tion that where the B-1 table, says "commit to a program," the

pvl3 29 order isn't read as saying "complete the test program."

2 Okay. Immediate effectiveness of long-term actions.

- end#2 3

4 5

Now, let's see, Len, would you or Steve revi~w the bidding for us?

6 7

8 9

10 I ll 12

  • 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 I 20 21
  • 22 23

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24 25

CR 6245 30 HEER t-3 rote 1

- 2 MR. BICKWIT: You've got two optiops before you as a result of the last meeting, a third that our office is put-

- 3 4

5 ing forward.

The first would not require the li~ensee to begin work immediately on implementing the long-term actions and I

6 would permit the board to set a date for their completion 7 based on the time after restart allowed to other B&W facilities 8 The second would be the most immediately effective:

9 an order requiring the licensee to implement'.all long-term lOI actions that are now required of the other B&W facilities, 11 and would provide that when other long-term ~ctions are 12 required of the other facilities, they would be required at 1

  • 13 14 15 TMI-1.

Now, our option is in the middle of those two, but clearly not squarely in the middle. It is much closer to the 16 second option, but it would differ slightly. We would not 17 require the licensee to begin work on the long-term actions, I

18 but we would make restart conditional on a board finding that 19 the licensee had implemented those actions as promptly as 20 practicable, and would permit the board to recommend that the I

21 restart be delayed an appropriate amount of time if those

  • 22 23 24 actions had not been so implemented.

This would avoid placing the Commission in the posture of actually ordering work done while at the same time Alt=ederal RePorters, Inc.

25 i t was deliberating on whether to pe~rnit the facility to

31 mte 2

- operate again. It would allocate risks between the licensee 2 and the public in a manner similar to the way in which it

- 3 4

5 would be allocated for the short-term actions, except that the stakes would be higher, in that we assume that the long-term actions would take a longer time to implement. So that 6 if the licensee chose to wait in the hopes of persuading the 7 board and the Commission that it did not have to perform these 8 long-term actions, i t could significantly put off the restart 9 of its plant if i t were ultimately determine~ that those 10 I actions had to be required as a condition to:restart, or that 11 implementation had to be far along as a condition to restart.

12 So that in each case the licensee is free not to

-* 13 14 perform, and in each case if he fails to persuade the board I

and the Commission, in the last analysis, that he ought not ever be required to perform, then the penalty for him would 15 16 be a delay in restart.

17 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Well, your memo notes that, at 18 first blush, at least, Commissioners Kennedy ,pand Bradford lean 19 toward the first, Corn.missioner Ahearne toward the second, and 20 as I remember my own position, I leaned both'ways,although 21 not at the same time.. There is no thing equi "1ocal about my

  • 22 23 24 position.

Are there druthers?

time around.

I Vic, you missed this the first This was one of the high points: of the day .

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25 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I think the general counsel's

rote 3 32 proposal seems all right.

2 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Let's see, 2-1-1.

- 3 4

5 I have to sample up, because we have a third option.

We have to choose one, two, or three.

Peter, you initially chose one. why don't you think 6 about i t while I query the other end of the ~able.

7 What is the feeling down here?

8 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I have already expressed mine.

9 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: You are still oh the first option.

10 I John?

11 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: I still like two ..

12 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: If I understand what you're I

13 saying, the Commission is not ordering these; long-term actions 14 to be undertaken, but at the end of this proceeding the board 15 will consider the progress on these long-terk actions in 16 deciding.

17 MR. BICKWIT: Yes, whether the plant can restart.

18 COMMISSIONER GI LINSKY: Assuming o;ther actions have 19 been taken and the board is otherwise satisf1ed.

20 MR. BICKWIT: Yes.

21 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Which i t would do in any

  • 22 23 24 case, isn't that right?

MR. BICKWIT:

I If the order were not immediately effective, my_ guess is in many cases the licensee would not do

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25 that. He would contest the order, and only*when he lost the

mte 4 33

- 2 contest would he get going on these required actions.

COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: Wouldn't t e board in any

- 3 4

5 case taken into account what progress is beilg made toward dealing with the long-term issues?*

MR.* BICKWIT:

I Not if none has been required. If all 6 you have out',.wi th respect to long-term issue is, in effect, a 7 proposed action, which is an order which is fl ot made immediatel 8 effective, and an invitation to the licensee to contest that 9 proposed action, I would think it would be highly unfair for 10 I the board to condition restart on performancl of that action.

11 MR. OSTRACH: I I would expect the b0ard would look to I

12 the amount of time it would have to decide hrw long a time

  • 13 14 15 can be allowed for long-term actions to remain outstanding.

If it had seen that the applicant had not be!un them, then it could say the Commission allowed .other licenlees, to the extent 16 that long-term actions were similar for theml a certain period 17 of time, say from whenever the orders were ilsued until 18 January 1 st, 1981 , we oug h t to give a somewh at simi 1 ar I . . .

amount 19 of time to this licensee. l 20 That would be because the board wo,ld not count 21

  • 22 23 24 the orders were contested.

COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:

options one and three.

That is wh t they do between I

Three says to the 1.board, you can't do

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25 that?

mte 5 34

- 2 3

MR. OSTRACH: Three says the board* can do that.

COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I thought three said you can't start up again -- can start up again?

4 MR. BICKWIT: Three says you can't'. start up again 5 unless you have completed these actions.

6 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: it says the board will take 7 into account.

8 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: So,:tWhat is, the practical 9 difference between one and three?

lO I MR. BICKWIT: You mean between two and three? Three 11 is very much closer to two than it is to one, in that under 12 two you are actually formally required to get going .

  • 13 14 15 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:

MR. BICKWIT:

Right.

Under three you are not required to get going, but you risk -- your risk is substantial if you I

16 don't and you do not persuade the board in the end and the 17 Commission in the end that you should not have been required 18 to do it.

19 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: But under one you are also 20 not required to get godi.ng. And the penalty, it seems to me, 21 under one and three is the same, that is, at :the point at which

  • 22 23 the board tells you you could restart.

MR. BICKWIT:

there really is no I have been assuming under penalty.

me that

- 24 A<.c-Federal Reporters, I nc.

25 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Unless the board thinks some 1

35 mte 6 of the long-term actions should be precondit~ons to restart.

2 MR. BICKWIT: There is always that.

I 3 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: I guess I am troubled about 4 requiring that long-term actions be completed unless these are 5 Commission requirements.

6 MR. BICKWIT: But you are not making the short-term 7 actions Commission requirements, either. Yof are treating 8 this -- this proposal is to treat the long-term .actions very 9 similar to the way you treat short-term acti6ns, which is to 10 ! say you don't have to do them, but if you don't do them either ll their completion or their implementation on route to comp.le-12 tion may be made a condition .

  • 13 14 15 COMMISSIONER GILINSKY: The board can take them into I

account, depending on how it regards their importance.

COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I must say) I think one and I

16 three are very much alike, at least as I intended one.

17 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Then you should have no 18 trouble with three.

19 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Exactly. I'm not having 20 trouble with three.

I 21 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: In that case, let's see if I can

  • 22 23

. get John to split a vote here.

up a stand on this one?

COMMISSIONER BRADFORD:

Where would ~ou like to take I. guess I s,till prefer one

.ederal Reporters, ~n~.

25 as I understood it. But three is acceptable.. I may be missing

rote 7 36 something, because Dick once agreed with me on one and now he I

2 doesn't agree with me.

3 0OMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I don't think they are the 4 same at all.

5 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: It may be that both of you 6 had agreed on one, seeing one differently.

7 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: I don't think so. It is that I

8 I don't believe one and three are all the same. They are quite 9 different.

lO I MR. BICKWIT: I agree with that.

11 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Counsel agrees with you.

12 Well, what do you see the licenseeidoing under three?

13 MR. BICKWIT: I see him, in all probability, doing 14 the action, starting right away to complete the actions. And 15 under one I see him not doing so. In two I ~ee him doing so 16 because he's required as a matter of law to do it.

17 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: But even though under one, 18 first of all, there's a certainty he's going ito have to have 19 them done, or a strong likelihood he's going 'to have to have 20 them done some day.

21 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: At least my lreading of one

  • is that his clock on the long-term actions starts at that point that the board says, all right, do these short-term .

COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Well, his clock is what the

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25 board says it is.

mte 8 37

  • 2 3

COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: But at leasF my interpretation would be that is the way you would read number one.

MR. BICKWIT: We may have drafted ~his harder than 4 you intended it. We have it drafted as thereI being virtually 5 no penalty for doing nothing.

6 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: In a sense, it is a deferral.

7 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Okay, but you do have more 8 time. A licensee who has a presently shut down plant that 1

9 he hopes to start, faced with the possibility when he restarts I

10 I 1 it, he could** .:get;* a timetable which could conceivably require 11 that he shut it down again in order to take some particular i

12 steps in it, that if he seriously thinks he's going to restart 13 it, it would seem to me that he would be very likely to take 14 at least those actions that he didn't violently object to 15 taking, while the plant was shut down.

16 MR. BICKWIT: Unless he thought he : could persuade 17 the board that they wouldn't be required.

18 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: The prospect which it seems to 19 me is highly remote, given the fact that every other plant of 20 that type has been ordered to do the same thing.

21 Now, what could motivate this guy to think that he

  • 22 23 24 would be unlike all the others in respect to the need to do these things? Now, he might wish, just because he's got an excess of legal fees and too little other monies, to go spend

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2.5 his money on his lawyers to protest these particular matters

mte 9 38

  • 2 3

and contest them with the Commission .

COMMISSIONER GILINSKY:

three are different, then?

Why do you think one and Aren't you making the case that 4 they are the same?

5 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: No, I don't: think so.

6 MR. OSTRACH: Commissioner, I think the difference 7 is in the timetable. If the licensing board.does order the 8 long-term actions, makes them required, it would allow a 9 certain amount of time. Now, it can either -- there are two 10 1 main time periods to choose. One of those time periods is the 11 amount of. time which other B&W plants would be given to 12 complete the long-term actions.

13 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Three is okay for me.

14 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Let me ask about three.

15 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I'm sorry, ,I thought you 16 said 3:00 o'clock for the research briefing.

17 In that case, I would like to have:Steve explain to 18 me once more the difference between one and three.

I 19 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Peter has to decide whether it is 20 really a one or really a three.

21 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: If you will just let me

  • 22 23 I listen to Steve for a minute, I might be able to do that.

Start again .

MR. OSTRACH: The board is going to order a decision

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25 requiring that long-term actions -- to be long-term actions

mte 10 39

  • 2 are to be complete.

that it could choose.

There are two dates, two logical dates

-  ?

4 5

One is the date at which the Commission required the long-term actions to be completed by other B&W plants.

I'm assuming that they order essentially the same long-term 1

6 actions as were imposed in the other one. That would be a date, i

7 perhaps, let us say, January 1st, 1981, 17 months from now, 8 15 months from now. That would, assuming the hearing doesn't 9 finish until March or something like that, that would mean the lO I licensee would only have nine months in which to complete 11 those actions. Other plants were given 17 months to handle 12 them.

w 13 The board might also choose a different date. It 14 might choose a date 17 months after its decision, believing 15 that, just as the Commission gave these peop+e 17 months 16 I after imposition of the requirement, so it should give 17 months 17 after imposition of requirements.

18 I believe that under the first option that would be 19 the way the board would most likely go, since it would not 20 assume that the licensee was obligated or should be held to 21 have been obligated during the period of time it was contesting

  • 22 23 24 the provisions. So the difference is in three the board would be told basically, to the extent applicable i:n the circum-stances, use the date the Commission selected for those

.ederal Reporters, Inc.

25 long-term actions to be completed as the date that you're

mte 11 40 going to hold the licensee to, which means that right now the I

2 licensee should be moving as promptly as practicable.

3 In the first option, the board would choose the 4 amount of time the Commission gave, which would mean the 5 licensee could begin then. That is the main; distinction I

6 between one and three.

7 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: It really would be a matter -

8 I think that is probably right. Depending upon, A, what the 9 board did with its discretion, and, B, what ~he license chose I

10 ! to do in anticipation of the situation, that the two really 11 could work out quite similarly. If you've stated the extremes, 12 the extreme for one is further out and the extreme for three

    • 13 14 15 is probably further in.

Well, three is acceptable to me.

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Is one still ac8eptable?

16 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: Review the bidding for me.

17 Do we have two votes for one and two for three?

18 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: Yes.

19 John, will you withdraw from two?

20 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: Sure.

21 CHAIFMAN HENDRIE: John had origin~lly said either 22 two or three are all right. But he slid down to three because 23 he sees a force gathering there.

  • 24 You had indicated that either one or three were okay,

-ederal Reporters, I nc.

25 and that leaves me the dilemma, if I go up and vote with you 1

mte 12 41 on one, I can't tell whether I've got a split Commission 3-3.

2 (Laughter.)

- 3 4

5 CI::IAIRMAN HENDRIE: Which is going to be hard to explain in some quarters; or whether it is 3-2. And if you've got a preference between the two, why, that helps settle it.

6 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I have a preference for 7 deciding the question. My intellectual pref~rence is one.

8 But I would much rather get this settled. So I would vote 9 for three.

lO I COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: Let's not let principle get 11 in the way.

12 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: If it were'a principle, I

  • 13 14 15 would stay with one.

CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: If you will stay with one, I will vote for one and we will outvote these folk.*

16 COMMISSIONER BRADFORD: I will stay with one.

17 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I'm just trying to find somewhere, 18 if I leap in, it will be a clearcut majority. And I can' 19 tell.

20 COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: You just did.

21 COMMISSIONER AHEARNE: 3-2 seems to be a clearcut

  • 22 23 24 majority.

COMMISSIONER KENNEDY: There's only five.

way you voted, you're the swing vote.

Whichever

.ederal Reporters, Inc.

25 CHAIRMAN HENDRIE: I will vote for one because it

mte 13 42 seems clearer-cut to me. I still have some problems with the 2 language in three, which seems to run back and forth. "Be 3

performed as promptly as practicable as a condition to restart.

4 I don't know, I will vote for one and declare that 5

Peter will still stand there, and we have a quavering slight 6

edge for option one. And I will furthermore declare we have 7 gone as far as we can reasonably go today. And the 8 Commissioners are asked to please return in 15 minutes, i.e.,

9 at 20 minutes to 3:00, to hear the Research budget.

e-3 10 (Whereupon, at 2:25 p.m., the meeting was adjourned.)

11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 I 21 22 23

- 24

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