ML20304A146
| ML20304A146 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Issue date: | 10/30/2020 |
| From: | NRC/OCM |
| To: | |
| References | |
| M201021B | |
| Download: ML20304A146 (69) | |
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1 UNITED STATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION
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ALL EMPLOYEES MEETING WITH COMMISSIONERS
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WEDNESDAY, OCTOBER 21, 2020
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The Commission met via Videoconference, at 1:00 p.m.
EDT, Kristine L. Svinicki, Chairman, presiding.
COMMISSION MEMBERS:
KRISTINE L. SVINICKI, Chairman JEFF BARAN, Commissioner ANNIE CAPUTO, Commissioner DAVID A. WRIGHT, Commissioner CHRISTOPHER T. HANSON, Commissioner ALSO PRESENT:
ANNETTE VIETTI-COOK, Secretary of the Commission MARIAN ZOBLER, General Counsel NRC STAFF:
MARGARET DOANE, Executive Director for Operations DANIEL DORMAN, Deputy Executive Director for Reactor and Preparedness Programs
2 GINA DAVIS, Office of Nuclear Material Safety and Safeguards TIA HAYNES, Office of the Chief Human Capital Officer ALSO PRESENT:
SHERYL SANCHEZ, National Treasury Employees Union
3 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 1:02 p.m.
3 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Well, good afternoon, everyone, 4 and welcome. Welcome back to some of us who are in this room this 5 morning. I am calling to order a truly unique NRC all staff, all employee 6 meeting, and we have always had to rely upon virtual participation to some 7 extent in this meeting, but this year we are relying on almost exclusively virtual 8 participation of NRC staff.
9 And, of course, this is also a public meeting of our 10 Commission, so other interested members of the public are able to tune in as 11 well and we will hear from all commissioners. We will mostly take Q&A during 12 this meeting, but we will be led off by our Executive Director for Operations 13 Margie Doane.
14 MS. DOANE: Okay, thank you, Chairman Svinicki. Good 15 afternoon. Welcome to the 29th annual all hands meeting of staff and 16 Commission. This is a public meeting, so I'd like to also welcome any 17 members of the public and media who might be joining us today.
18 This is the first of a kind annual all hands meeting with the 19 Commission because it is being brought to staff entirely virtually. Needless 20 to say, I'm appreciative we have the necessary technologies that enable us to 21 connect virtually and an NRC workforce that is adaptable and willing to employ 22 these tools so that we can carry on the tradition of holding this highly 23 anticipated event. I'd like to extend a special thanks to the members of the 24 Commission for their continued support of this important meeting and for 25 taking the time to discuss topics that are of great interest to all of us. Despite 26 the change in how meetings are being held, the purpose remains the same as
4 1 in prior years. It's intended to be an opportunity for communication between 2 the Commission and the staff and for the members of the Commission to share 3 their perspectives on NRC's accomplishments and challenges.
4 The meeting will begin with the Chairman and each 5 Commissioner providing individual remarks. The remainder of the meeting is 6 reserved for employees to ask questions. This is a unique opportunity for 7 employees to interact directly with the Commission regarding agency policy 8 and strategy matters and I encourage you all to take advantage of it.
9 And now for a bit of logistics before we begin, NRC 10 employees have the ability to submit a question via the link located on the 11 NRC internal web page. Please click the link in the NRC banner located on 12 the NRC's internal website and submit your questions using the form. NRC 13 employees can submit questions anytime during the meeting until 2:45 p.m.
14 We will be reading from the list of questions as time permits 15 during the question and answer period. Please note that this meeting will be 16 recorded and is closed captioned.
17 Meetings like this would not be possible without the help of 18 our dedicated volunteers, so I'd like to recognize Gina Davis from the Office 19 of Nuclear Material Safety and Safeguards. She's the vice president of the 20 NRC's Toastmaster Club and she will read the questions for the Commission.
21 Alternating reading questions is Tia Haynes from the Office of Chief Human 22 Capital Officer.
23 Additionally, I'd like to thank the employees from various 24 offices across the NRC who helped organize this meeting. We sincerely 25 appreciate your planning efforts to provide the necessary technical and
5 1 logistical support to allow us to come together virtually today.
2 In particular, I would like to thank Maria Arribas-Colon of my 3 staff who has worked tirelessly to make this meeting a success. Finally, I'd 4 like to recognize Ms. Sheryl Sanchez, president of NRC's chapter of the 5 National Treasury Employees Union who is also joining us virtually today.
6 Following the Commission's remarks and the question and answer period, Ms.
7 Sanchez will have the opportunity to provide remarks.
8 Now without further delay, I'll turn the meeting over to you, 9 Chairman Svinicki.
10 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thanks, Margie.
11 Again, my thanks to Gina and Tia who are going to help us have a 12 flawless Q&A portion here. Thank you so much, both of you, for volunteering 13 to do that. And also we have in the very limited staff in the room we have Mr.
14 Dave Nelson.
15 And I want to begin just by saying that, you know, the 16 Commission's range of options for this meeting or conducting our public 17 meetings, really, everything's ridden on the backbone of the tremendous kind 18 of foresight that the Office of CIO has had at NRC and there's rarely a workday 19 that goes by since the public health emergency that I haven't awoken and 20 been really grateful for the fact that we have so much capacity as NRC at our 21 command in terms of the tools that were always important but now are so 22 essential to our ability to function in this environment.
23 And I know all my colleagues will be extremely eloquent, but 24 it's my practice I've generally have not had a prepared formal statement for 25 this gathering. I do view it very much as a dialogue with the NRC staff. It 26 sure feels different this year because we used to look out at a sea of, at a
6 1 minimum, hundreds, probably topping a thousand in any given year, of our 2 NRC family that would have been over at the Marriott diagonally across the 3 street.
4 For those of you in the Regions and the TTC, this isn't so 5 different for you. Maybe you always opted to view it and participate remotely.
6 But it does feel to me like a conversation and I hope it will be, and again we've 7 tried to provide the tools so that people can get their questions in advance.
8 I was particularly well-served this year that I don't generally 9 write out a written statement because I think I've got to be the same as most 10 of the folks listening to me right now that, you know, 2020, how does one really 11 talk about the year 2020? And I think at this point in October, the menu of 12 adjectives that we're supposed to be able to be using to describe these 13 experiences I just candidly admit, you know, to be completely caught off guard.
14 Of course, the ironic thing is that the NRC actually has 15 pandemic planning as part of both our own continuity of operations and we do 16 conduct oversight of this particular hazard or area of challenge for our 17 licensees in the regulated community. But I think that knowing it's out there 18 in the broad universe of things that could happen feels really, really different 19 from having it happen.
20 And Sheryl's been kind enough to speak at the end of this 21 meeting, but I'm going to reference something she said as she spoke closing 22 our Commission meeting this morning as she said -- and I apologize, Sheryl, 23 because I didn't write it down exactly. I just agreed so much with the 24 sentiment, which is that it is possible for NRC to come through these 25 experiences and be stronger.
26 And I don't think it's just some kind of strange optimism that
7 1 I need to adopt to get me through. I really believe that because we are this 2 far into this experience and you just see our ability to move forward and I know 3 it's a strain, you know, on everybody.
4 And when I was looking at Dave Nelson and talking about 5 getting up every workday and being so glad, I also kind of, you know, harness 6 myself to that gosh darn laptop that you all thought to provide to all of us and 7 I'm like, another COVID day begins.
8 So I know that we're all dealing with that and there are many 9 of you challenged with home stressors that are even more significant, you 10 know, dealing with family and the school reopening or not reopening and all 11 of that has been so complicated for everybody, but I don't just say it because 12 I want to kind of espouse some sort of cheerleading capacity. I get an 13 opportunity to be on routine engagements with others in my role in other 14 departments and agencies and I walk away from those thinking that, you 15 know, I would tritely say we're lucky at NRC. But it's not luck, it's a lot of 16 things. It's the great kind of unity of purpose that we have that we are very 17 meticulous and careful and thoughtful systematic people that serves you well 18 and we know this from those of us who do event response.
19 We know that that's the mindset to bring where there's this much 20 uncertainty and very little that you know for sure. And I think it's easy to sit 21 here in October and dismiss or forget about the overwhelming suffocating 22 uncertainty early in this. Although it has been a great tragedy and lives lost, 23 there are certainly contagion vectors that are much more virulent that we could 24 have, you know, in early days, I'm sure many of us got up and thought how 25 depending on how rapidly this might progress what might we be called to do 26 in two weeks from now and two months from now.
8 1 And so when I look at where we are, there were some 2 fortuitous elements that made it more of a long duration but not a rapid 3 catastrophic type of event, which again a lot of us have to think about those 4 low probability events as part of the work we do here at NRC and I'm sure we 5 brought a lot of that really level-headed thinking in how we dealt with things.
6 But I think we have a strong culture. We're very, very 7 focused on our culture because of transformation. We were talking about it 8 this morning, but when you add in the other events in this country maybe 9 amplified by the public health emergency and how difficult times were for so 10 many of us that we had the racial justice issues and the other things that are 11 causing us to do a lot of really painful reflection.
12 So here we are. We're having to reflect professionally and 13 now we're reflecting as a society and thinking about, you know, how do we 14 move forward from all this? But I, again, Sheryl said it this morning. But it 15 has been, after some of the early fog lifted, consistently my view is that NRC 16 is coming through this and it's bringing all the right elements of our culture and 17 our capacity to the fore. We are getting done the mission that the American 18 people count on us to do.
19 And we would have having not been able to do that we could 20 have contributed to further national unease, so our ability to continue to meet 21 our mission is something that takes one less concern off the American public's 22 mind.
23 So, you know, on behalf of the Commission, thank you all 24 for that. But it is turning into a long duration event, so the next thing your 25 mind goes to is okay, you know, there is promising -- I am an optimist on the 26 vaccine just because so much resource has been put into that. There are
9 1 levels of global collaboration that I don't think have ever occurred for big 2 pharma and for the development of something like this, so I think there's a lot 3 of reason for hope there.
4 It's going to get complicated though, because, you know, 5 some may get some approval to be rolled out but others will emerge that will 6 have better efficacy for certain subsectors of the population. You may be 7 told, well, get this vaccine, and before you get the second dose they'll be like, 8 oh, this other one is now really what we would have someone in your health 9 situation get. So there's going to be a lot to deal with.
10 And I, this isn't pessimism, but I, you know, what I'm 11 preparing for in my mind is that 2021 will look a lot like the stabilized situation 12 that we're sitting in here today and that's not necessarily a bad thing, you 13 know, we're coming through it with strength. I think we're getting, you know, 14 better at it. It's impacting us in the moment less than it did because we have 15 more experience to reflect on in getting through the events that we're facing 16 now.
17 But again, I think this dialogue is important. I'm sorry that 18 I'm not looking out, you know, at people or chatting with them in the Marriott 19 ballroom before or after, but I'm looking forward to just at least having this little 20 toehold for 2020. We did not let 2020 take this meeting away.
21 And so with that I'll stop talking and I will recognize 22 Commissioner Baran.
23 COMMISSIONER BARAN: Well, thank you. Welcome 24 everyone. It's great to be here today with my colleagues for this virtual all 25 employees meeting. I appreciate all of you taking the time to join us remotely.
26 This annual meeting is a great opportunity for you to share your thoughts
10 1 about how things are going at the agency and ask the questions you have on 2 your mind.
3 As the Chairman talked about this, this has obviously been 4 a very challenging year with the pandemic and I'm really proud of the way you 5 all have handled it. If you would have told me in February that the agency 6 would function well with almost everyone teleworking at the same time, I don't 7 think I would have believed it.
8 I know telework can be isolating for some. For those of us 9 with kids at home it can be the exact opposite. Either way, I know it can be 10 a little overwhelming at times. But, overall, with the right IT in place we've 11 been able to get our work done for the last seven months while keeping our 12 staff safe and that is a significant accomplishment.
13 The compass balance for NRC to strike has been on 14 inspections. For the first few months of the pandemic NRC was conducting 15 very few in-person safety and security inspections. At most nuclear power 16 plants our resident inspectors were onsite far less than usual and there were 17 almost no regional team inspections happening. I appreciate that the staff is 18 focused on getting the resident inspectors back on site more frequently and 19 on generally getting back to in-person safety inspections.
20 The staff set a goal of meeting the minimum samples for the 21 reactor oversight process baseline inspections this year and it looks like we 22 are mostly on track to meet that important goal. Based on my conversations 23 with NRC inspectors and managers, I think that there's a renewed recognition 24 of the value of in-person safety and security inspections. Whether it's the 25 ability to walk down safety-related equipment, talk informally with plant 26 employees, observe operations firsthand, or the intangible but very real effect
11 1 of having inspectors with an NRC hard hat visible around the plant. It's a 2 reminder that what we do really matters.
3 Our work is a team effort. Whether you're an inspector or 4 a project manager or an attorney or a contracting specialist or an 5 administrative assistant you're adding value every day, so thank you for the 6 work that you do. I look forward to hearing your thoughts and questions.
7 Thanks, Chairman.
8 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you, Commissioner Baran.
9 Commissioner Caputo?
10 COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: I'd like to start by echoing 11 something that Margie said and just thanks to all the staff who worked hard to 12 make this meeting possible under unusual circumstances. It's sad not to be 13 able to look out and see the faces of everyone and have perhaps a more 14 personal meeting, but thanks for the upbeat attitudes and getting the jobs done 15 by the unusual circumstances.
16 I also sincerely want to applaud all agency staff for the 17 continued dedication and agility. There is no precedent for the nature of how 18 the agency has been forced to function this year, but thanks to everyone for 19 learning how to work virtually this year and still execute our safety and security 20 mission. That's an amazing accomplishment that I think everyone should 21 take a great deal of pride in.
22 As a Commission we have embraced a new colleague this 23 year -- welcome, again -- and we also continue to deal with important policy 24 issues and adjudicatory decisions. So given the unusual circumstances and, 25 you know, a lot going on, there are a lot of dedicated people who are 26 committed to helping us get our work done. And sometimes you might think
12 1 it goes unnoticed, but it is noticed and it's very much appreciated.
2 But, finally, I also want to thank those who couldn't, whose 3 work couldn't all be done virtually -- our resident inspectors, our HOOs, ILTAB, 4 right down to contract folk like security officers and the cleaning staff -- they 5 are all still coming to work and doing their jobs whether the rest of us are in 6 our buildings or not.
7 And my hat's off to them, because given, certainly, the 8 greater uncertainty at the beginning that the Chairman mentioned there is not 9 just risk to them but, certainly, a reason for concern and, you know, fear at just 10 embarking on coming into these buildings to do their work and I think that's to 11 be commended.
12 One thing that's certainly a result of the upheaval that we've 13 gone through this year is how I think in many ways just the nature of the 14 situation has really propelled transformation and change just by the nature of 15 it. Whether it's, you know, learning to do more things virtually, learning to 16 expand our IT abilities to still accomplish our mission, and hopefully also 17 looking ahead at how the things that we have learned to do in a pinch because 18 we had to, may actually be very welcome ways of executing our work in the 19 future and extending people's capabilities and driving some efficiencies and 20 hopefully just improving how we conduct work, so that I actually welcome.
21 So like the Chairman said, who could have predicted the 22 year that we have in 2020, but my hat's off to everyone and together, you 23 know, I look forward to fastening our seatbelts and looking forward to 2021 24 and what it might throw at us for a sequel. Thank you.
25 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you, Commissioner Caputo.
26 Next, we'll hear from Commissioner Wright.
13 1 COMMISSIONER WRIGHT: Thank you, Chairman. So 2 no one wishes we could be together more than me, in person, but I'm still very 3 glad that we're able to have this important meeting even though it's virtual.
4 Commissioner Baran and I were talking about it coming 5 down the elevator, you know, how different it is to be sitting around a table 6 and not actually being able to go out in the crowd and shake hands and say 7 hello like we're used to doing, and hopefully we can get back to that soon.
8 I share Commissioner Caputo's thanks to the essential 9 employees that are here and having to show up every day regardless, and, 10 you know, we do -- they mean the world to us in how we operate our agency 11 and so thank you for that, that shout out to them. And to SECY and Admin 12 and OCIO and everyone else who's helped put this together, thank you for 13 your efforts. This is an important meeting and you've been behind the scenes 14 making it work as you have every other meeting that we've had, so thank you.
15 So -- and today is just another example of how all of you, 16 the agency as a whole, have successfully adapted to a changed and a still 17 changing environment. And, myself, I've felt a little bit like an outsider in a 18 way because I've had to be working from South Carolina since mid-March, 19 you know, I didn't know the day after my confirmation hearing when I drove 20 out of this parking lot I wouldn't be back for, what was it, seven months.
21 So I don't think any of us were prepared for that and if I'd 22 have known it, I'd have taken a little bit of time to print some stuff out because 23 I sure miss my printer. I miss my printer and I don't think I'm alone there. So 24 we need to work on that. What's not surprising though is how well things 25 have gone since. You know, you've transitioned quickly and we've adapted 26 to everything remote wise that we probably at another time would not thought
14 1 have been as possible. We've proved that it is.
2 And you all have had to deal with everything from 3 graduations, child care, births of babies, weddings, you name it, you know, 4 sicknesses at home, loss of loved ones, unfortunately, and other challenges 5 and, you know, we've all had to go through it as a family and as a team and, 6 you know, our thoughts and prayers are with you as you're trying to get your 7 work done and we want to be there to help support you, to help motivate you 8 and keep you going forward.
9 So if you maintain the mission, if you follow the principles of 10 good regulation, you've leveraged the use of new technologies and new 11 platforms and you've just continued to make sure that we're running 12 effectively. And I'm very grateful and I'm a fan, a big fan, and so thank you 13 for what you do.
14 And, you know, we have Commissioner Hanson as well.
15 We now have five, and welcome to your first all employees. I look forward to 16 the time when you can be in the big building over there with everybody, you'll 17 really enjoy that. And you've shown that you fit in here and I really appreciate 18 getting to know you and working with your staff and, you know, let us know 19 what we can do further to help you as well as with my other colleagues.
20 So with that, Chairman, thank you.
21 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you, Commissioner Wright.
22 With that kind words and kind welcome, let us now 23 recognize Commissioner Hanson. Welcome.
24 COMMISSIONER HANSON: Thank you, Chairman 25 Svinicki. Thanks, everybody, for joining us today. I mean it's, I'm really 26 pleased to be here at the first of what I hope are several of these all employee
15 1 meetings. And I, really, I look forward to the questions and to the back and 2 forth.
3 I mean, there really has been a through-line since the 4 beginning of the public health emergency, the ongoing transformation I've 5 heard, so I think really enabled the agency to adapt relatively quickly. And, 6 you know, I mean, I certainly saw that when I came on board in June and was 7 sworn in, right. I mean how seamless that was in a way, right, to come in on 8 the day and to get handed a laptop and three boxes of paper from Annette 9 and then get sent right back out the door. And I don't think I was back in the 10 building again for probably another month or six weeks.
11 And, you know, since that time, with the help of the staff and 12 the infrastructure and the willingness to change and adapt that the people 13 have had, you know, I've felt enormously welcome and feeling like I've been 14 modestly productive in this time too, and I just want to really appreciate my, or 15 extend my appreciation to the staff for everything that's gone so well.
16 At various points in my career I've interacted with NRC staff 17 and kind of admired you all from afar and some of you have heard me say 18 this, but I'm incredibly honored and it's a real privilege and a blessing to be 19 here among you. So, you know, I think, well, I think we'll leave it there 20 because I'd really like to hear from the staff. So thanks, everybody.
21 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Okay. Well, thank you very 22 much, Commissioner Hanson.
23 And so as Margie indicated, we have Gina and Tia and they 24 have said that they will alternate but they're going to keep track of the 25 alternating, so -- and the one question that I didn't ask beforehand is who will 26 start? Gina will start. Okay. So we will please go ahead and read the first
16 1 question.
2 MS. DAVIS: Okay. The first question is on agency 3 organizational structure. Staff would like to know how the Commission 4 envisions the agency organizational structure in five years, especially the 5 resident inspector organizational structure.
6 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Okay. There is a really broad 7 scope in that question. And I should have said to my colleagues that I will go 8 ahead and share some thoughts on this one first, but it does not and, actually, 9 I think works nicer if you hear a question that you particularly like, to get the 10 ball rolling please just give me a little hi sign and I will go ahead and recognize 11 you so that and then it's nice that we get to react to each other's remarks. So 12 if I start them all it gets a little tedious, and I'm the one saying that, so I can 13 say it.
14 The organizational structure of NRC is interesting. Some 15 of it is actually laid out in statute, so we have what I think of as the original 16 legacy offices. It doesn't mean that you can't create a new reactors and then 17 eventually decide that that, you know, given the workload full spec in 18 somewhere else. It's nice that we have as an organization the flexibility to 19 say what is the structure that serves us well right now.
20 And then I think on the corporate side, you know, what we 21 have is similar to the kind of functional groupings that a lot of large 22 organizations would have. So although we may have a legal flexibility to 23 modify there, in general, I think that we are aligned with how others would put, 24 you know, in a CFO office or have procurement being worked out of this part 25 of your administrative function.
26 So I don't envision too much differences there. I do think
17 1 that what excites me about transformation is an ability to look at things like the 2 resident inspector program. I'm not suggesting that it needs a refresh. The 3 fundamentals of the resident inspector program are enduring and strong and 4 I don't see it ever being entirely different than what it is today.
5 But I think this country has decided that an onsite presence 6 at nuclear power plants is something that the American public has an 7 expectation of that, so that's what I would call a foundational element of a 8 program that is unlikely to change going forward. But we will be different 9 based on these COVID experiences.
10 The world changes and modernized, I think, the notion of, 11 you know, a trailing spouse who in most cases historically would have been 12 the wife of the inspector, you know, being willing not having her own career 13 and being willing to move every few years from site to site, programs like 14 resident inspector programs or the diplomatic corps at the State Department 15 that have to come to terms with giving conditions of work that make it continue 16 to be a really attractive type of job that people want to be in that doesn't impact 17 their families in adverse ways. And so within that space I'm excited that if we 18 looked in a transformative sense at some of the conditions of work in terms of 19 work for inspectors and not just resident inspectors, inspector function, 20 generally, I'm sure that there's things that we would acknowledge that maybe, 21 hey, we should provide this flexibility or we should refresh the program in this 22 way. And I'll stop there.
23 Commissioner Baran?
24 COMMISSIONER BARAN: I don't have too much to add.
25 I think I agree with everything the Chairman said there. The only thing I'd 26 mention which, you know, I think the residents are aware of is there has been
18 1 a working group looking at potential recommendations on recruitment and 2 retention and some of those. Not the foundational issues around the resident 3 inspector program, but really what can we do there to make it an appealing, 4 attractive position given that it's so important to the agency.
5 That working group, I think, is, you know, set to report pretty 6 soon and I look forward to hearing the recommendations and seeing if there 7 is more we can do there to provide, you know, the incentives that make it really 8 appealing to be a resident inspector or senior resident inspector because it's 9 just so crucial that work to our overall mission.
10 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Commissioner Wright?
11 COMMISSIONER WRIGHT: Thank you, Chair.
12 I'm just going to build off that just a little bit because I appreciate your 13 comments and I agree with them and Commissioner Baran as well.
14 We also need to recognize those financial impacts, you 15 know, the tax consequences are things that, you know, are upside down and 16 I don't know that we can do that through a paper. You know, there's got to 17 be another way to do that and, you know, we need to be, we need to 18 acknowledge that and search however we can. If we need to group with other 19 agencies to look at this or, you know, get somebody to be a champion up on 20 the Hill, that's just something we need to look at as well.
21 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you.
22 Commissioner Caputo?
23 COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: This is one issue where I 24 think I have a fair amount of hope for these modern technology to the extent 25 that we are able to see through IT that residents can have remote access to 26 information or ways that can help them speed the nature of the work that
19 1 they've got to do for baseline inspections.
2 I wonder if that doesn't also create some room in their 3 schedule to maybe expand their skill set and perhaps take on some of the 4 burden from some of the regional offices just who, you know, I could see 5 depending on the nature how this technology can be employed, helping them 6 maybe broaden their expertise and their skill sets and maybe the nature of the 7 job shifting a bit in that way.
8 But, obviously, as the Chairman said, the presence onsite, I 9 think, is crucial and it's vital work that they are doing every day. But that's 10 one tweak in addition to what David said that I could see in the future.
11 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you.
12 Tia, would you read the next question?
13 MS. HAYNES: The next question is on transformation 14 activities. Whats the Commission's view on how the employee can benefit 15 from the efforts on transformation and can the Commission describe what 16 actions have or are being taken to ensure the vision reflects the staff's views?
17 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: I'm not -- staff's views. Well, I'll 18 just get some thoughts started. Such a broad topic I imagine everyone will 19 have something to say about it.
20 I think that I view transformation through the prism of being 21 here for Project AIM and, you know, it started out with a set of objectives. But 22 as you learn things then in a healthy continuous improvement environment 23 you begin to say, well, let's shift to look at this or maybe that area's not fruitful 24 and we're going to modify.
25 And I see transformation has also evolved quite a bit since 26 under the leadership of EDO Victor McCree and there was a tasking and the
20 1 analyst, Dan Dorman, I'm looking at him, who was very -- the people in this 2 room have to serve as surrogates for like hundreds of other people when I 3 look at you.
4 But Dan and many others, you know, were here and 5 involved in looking at things under that time period. And what we decided, 6 we took, that took us to, you know, part of the way through looking at 7 modernizing maybe some things would benefit from some reexamination 8 depending on how events had intervened. And when we embarked on 9 transformation, which again was, I would say, very much staff-led in the sense 10 that the EDO at the time, Victor McCree, again pulling together a group to look 11 kind of cross-functionally at what we might do, I'll say the same thing I said at 12 the time which is transformation is such a big word that carries so much weight 13 that I worried a little bit about picking that word.
14 But if you just kind of consider it to be a further evolution, 15 NRC has always been kind of a lessons learned, continuous improvement 16 organization. Project AIM was an element of that that had a very fiscal focus.
17 I'm not trying to pretend that that was different than it was, but transformation 18 is about kind of all of the elements of, you know, who we are, what we do, how 19 do we achieve those objectives.
20 And the reason that I would hope that staff would find it 21 something that they want to engage in is that it is an opportunity to design the 22 NRC that you're coming to work at every day and that, you know, hopefully 23 you want to be coming to work five years from now or ten years from now and 24 be a part of that journey.
25 I think it goes beyond saying we welcome suggestions into 26 this transformation event starting off with Margie's idea of the jam. I mean
21 1 how much more direct can you make an initiative than to say we're just going 2 to dialogue for two and a half days. I mean that is meant to be a 3 demonstration that there is not some preconceived game plan.
4 And I've watched it every step, taking the jam results, 5 synthesizing those, looking at the various initiatives then maybe deciding 6 priority initiatives. I hope I haven't seen it wrong, but it has appeared to me 7 that at every stage it has been a feedback loop from the staff to other staff 8 working on these initiatives. And for that very reason I hope it looks different 9 a year from now. It needs to. That would be the healthiest thing for it.
10 And so those are just some thoughts kind of about where I 11 think we are and where we're going and I don't know that it's intended to be a 12 thing that it's limited in scope. It's ten tasks and when they're done, they're in 13 the tracking system and then it's over, I don't see it that way.
14 Commissioner Baran?
15 COMMISSIONER BARAN: Yeah, I think, you know, there 16 are several initiatives going on I think that can be really beneficial to staff.
17 One of them is something we alluded to or talked about earlier which is all the 18 IT, you know, that's just been a really, a big shift in the last few years.
19 And I think the Chairman, I don't know if you used the word 20 "prescient," but I think it really was. You know, a couple years back we 21 moved to all of these laptops and everything and it's, I mean it's just been huge 22 for us as an agency to be effective. So there's the IT piece. I don't know if 23 we always think of that, you know, under the rubric of transformation, but I 24 think that's just been really important and it's been a big change in the last few 25 years.
26 Another one of the areas I would think of is strategic
22 1 workforce planning which we talked about this morning. I mean I think the 2 vision for that is really positive for employees, which is the ability to see, you 3 know, where does the agency think we're going to have our future needs in 4 terms of skill sets and what's the path to attaining those skills and putting 5 yourself as an employee in a position to take that next spot whether it's a 6 rotation or a promotion, so -- and that's really coming along. I felt good about 7 that this morning, the kind of progress that's been made in that area. And the 8 ability just to kind of access that information online now, I think, is very, very 9 good.
10 You know, something that is still kind of working its way 11 through to fruition but I think can be a real value to staff is just kind of the 12 streamlining of some our internal processes, and mostly I'm thinking about the 13 concurrence process there. I know that's been a frustration for a lot of people 14 for many years and there's an effort now to really look at that. What should 15 a concurrence process look like so that everyone knows what their, you know, 16 role and responsibility is as part of that and also, you know, we can get through 17 work in a timely way?
18 You know, I know having gotten papers you sometimes see 19 the concurrence chain and you're like, wow, you know, to go from that first 20 person to the last person took 15 months or 8 months or whatever it took, and 21 I would imagine, you know, if you're the first person on that chain that's going 22 to be a little frustrating. And so I think, you know, that's something that could 23 be really productive.
24 And then, you know, another area that Margie's emphasized 25 and that I have agreed with in the very beginning is to make sure very early in 26 the discussions of like policy questions or potential changes to oversight or
23 1 substantive standards that we get all the different issue viewpoints figured out 2 early on, have all those aired so that we know going in where are the different 3 staff on the different issues.
4 Factor that in very early in the process rather than having a 5 recommendation and months and months and months later folks come in 6 towards the end and that's the first time they get their opportunity to say, wait 7 a minute, I'm concerned about this. Let's hear those voices very early on 8 because you're going to just have a much better product and a much better 9 decision if we do that. So I've been very supportive of that effort.
10 And there has been a trend. We've talked about this, I 11 think, in prior years at these meetings of seeing more and more of those 12 alternative staff views in the papers that come up to us, which I think is just 13 super valuable. I really benefit from that when there's that attachment.
14 And it's not always, you know, it's not always a formal 15 nonconcurrence. It's not always a formal differing professional opinion. It 16 can just be the staff talking about, well, we weren't unanimous on this as a 17 staff. There are some folks who have a different view and here's that view 18 and here's why they would maybe recommend something else than what the 19 overall staff is recommending.
20 So I think those are all really valuable for the agency, but I 21 hope also valuable to individual employees. And I'll just stop by saying 22 because I know this is a little bit scattered, you know, to the extent we have 23 thought within transformation or the staff's thought in transformation about 24 more substantive changes, I do think it's just so important to make sure we're 25 hearing all those views, the regions and headquarters, hear all the views and 26 make sure we're taking them into consideration before any kind of
24 1 recommendation is made to the Commission. Thanks.
2 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Commissioner Caputo?
3 COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: I think one of the things that 4 I like about transformation, which the Chairman pointed out, is by using that 5 word and having a goal of a modern risk-informed regulator it's a very, it's a 6 broad goal and there are initiatives that support that and there are various 7 teams and working groups, but the scope can really be driven by what the 8 staff see need to change.
9 And so rather than having a prescriptive, these ten things 10 and we need these staff doing this and these staff doing that, it's not, this is 11 not prescriptive. This is if you see a need for change and there's something 12 that excites you and something that you are energized about and feel you can 13 contribute to, there's an opportunity.
14 As Margie has stated, you know, over and over, 400 people 15 have submitted ideas for innovative changes. And, you know, and I think 16 that's a wonderful statement about how this is really intended to be an 17 opportunity for the staff themselves to change the agency in ways that they 18 think it needs to change to support that goal of being a modern, risk-informed 19 regulator.
20 So to that extent that may create a little confusion for staff 21 who may prefer to be told here is what you can do to support such and such, 22 but I hope there's also room for a lot of creativity and innovation by people 23 deciding in what ways they want to contribute. So I appreciate that and 24 certainly the staff's efforts to contribute so far.
25 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you.
26 Commissioner Wright?
25 1 COMMISSIONER WRIGHT: Thank you. So I agree with 2 your comments, and your comments too, yours as well. I mean 3 transformation for me, I kind of wish we had chosen maybe a different word 4 because it's not the same to every area of the agency. It's just not. You 5 know, we're evolving, we're morphing, we're changing, we're adapting, we're 6 learning how to be nimble, you know, and responsive. So, but all of that is 7 transformative, so I guess that's why we use it. I agree with the use of IT.
8 We're doing it different. We're doing it, you know, we've been very fortunate 9 that we got on top of this early, that they had the foresight to do this when they 10 did. That's probably been as transformative for us today as anything else has 11 been.
12 You know, we've got EMBARK. We've got areas of this 13 agency that really have, are tackling, you know, the ideas that are being 14 brought in and how they're using that data analytics, information that we've 15 had forever that's not been able to be used the way it is today and to build 16 platforms and dashboards that they're able to do now, and that's going to 17 permeate this entire agency. You know, new ways of using things more 18 effectively to provide and meet our mission, you know, which is to provide 19 reasonable assurance of adequate protection.
20 So I'm excited with what I see. Not every area of the 21 agency's, you know, where the other ones are at, but they're all pulling. And 22 to quote who's the coach from, I guess, in Minnesota, they're all rowing the 23 boat in the same direction, and I like that. So.
24 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Okay. I think we are back to Gina 25 for the next question.
26 MS. DAVIS: Okay. The next question is in regards to
26 1 budget and transformation. The transformation effort has brought an 2 increased workload to our day-to-day work that is not really budgeted but we 3 are still required and accountable to continue performing our jobs with the 4 current guidance and processes, in addition to working on enhancing 5 guidance and processes in a very rapid manner to risk-inform our agencies 6 processes, streamline and et cetera.
7 It does not seem that we are accounting in our budget for all 8 this extra work and we continue to decrease our budgets and budget 9 formulation. What is the agency's plan to balance and right-size our 10 workforce with our mission critical work and our transformative work?
11 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Well, I'm happy to lead off. I will 12 say, number one, as I listen to the question, the saying, since we're talking 13 about sayings, the saying that came to mind is kind of trying to change the tire 14 on the car while you're driving down the highway.
15 And I think I have great sympathy with the kind of 16 presumption of the question, which is that processes that I'm using every day 17 I'm supposed to be evolving and modernizing at the same time and it is a 18 significant ask.
19 I have looked at a slightly different angle on it. It doesn't 20 remove the concern that was just expressed, but I have, to reflect on the last 21 question, been pleased to see that there are the kind of opportunities for 22 people to both nominate for change and to make suggestions about the 23 processes they use most intimately day to day to get their work done because 24 there are other models where a separate group would be set up to come up 25 with the suggestions of how to change something and they may or may not be 26 the type of people who struggle with the inefficiencies of that process on a
27 1 day-to-day basis. I think that, you know, budgeting as a concept is something 2 that in my time here, we've worked really hard. I'm looking at Commissioner 3 Hanson now because he recently arrived from a committee that has strong 4 views or a subcommittee that has strong views in the Senate of how well we 5 actually forecast our budget and execute our budget and then, you know, ask 6 for the next budget cycle.
7 I think that we have been asked to have a little more realism.
8 It's been particularly hard because when I joined, we were still growing in 9 budget and people and then we went through this contraction that we've -- and 10 we still appear to be in at the current time. Dynamic times are the hardest 11 time to get exquisitely accurate about your budget.
12 And so I have sat before Congress with others around this 13 table when we've been asked about our carryover, you know, you seem to 14 have excessive carryover, you routinely don't outlay. So that can make it a 15 very difficult environment to go to the Congress and say we need more. We 16 do attempt to execute our budget with the best-informed decision making that 17 we can have, but I think this area is always going to be in tension.
18 And I started out with the saying about changing the tire 19 while you're driving down the road. With that being said, there are a lot of 20 organizations that are cradles of innovation that we would look to in the U.S.
21 economy and say those people do it right. We've done benchmarking with 22 those groups.
23 And there is an element of evolving while you're still carrying 24 out your processes that even though it's a challenge is the most informed and 25 insightful way to evolve. The other option is to create a little think tank off to 26 the side where people aren't doing the work. They get out of step with what,
28 1 really, the organization needs.
2 So I hear the concern in the question. It's entirely valid. It 3 is a big ask organizationally and to the extent that people feel that they are 4 under unrealistic pressures, I would encourage them to be working with their 5 managers, their team leaders, their first line supervisors.
6 Sometimes I think that your supervisor may not realize that 7 you were wanting to carve out time to work on an improvement suggestion or 8 something like that. And so that communication which is, yes, made harder 9 due to our remote work situation, I think is maybe the first opportunity to kind 10 of work out a different agreement.
11 Commissioner Hanson, since I mentioned, see, I do that. I 12 mentioned you to draw you in like this. We're doing this going down the row 13 thing even though we're in a circle, but it's our old row. But please, because 14 you, no, it's very helpful because you're coming in bringing a fresher look at 15 this.
16 COMMISSIONER HANSON: Yeah. No, of course. I 17 mean, you know, I was thinking of the -- as you were speaking, Chairman 18 Svinicki, I was thinking of the Heisenberg principle a little bit too as another 19 analogy, right. We can locate the electron or we can tell the direction and 20 speed in which it's moving, but we can't do both.
21 And it is a little bit like that with our work and the 22 transformation efforts at the same time. I think we as a Commission have to 23 be cognizant in a way of the additional duties, right, that people are doing 24 things like moving licensing actions and, you know, other kind of day-to-day 25 work and transforming at the same time. That the billing and the workload 26 that we're seeing incorporates both of those things. Do we need a separate
29 1 charge code for transformation activities? You know, maybe, but also maybe 2 not, right, because those things that we do want to have that culture and build 3 that into the situation that we're in. I don't think it's a surprise to anybody that, 4 you know, we've got five commissioners and we've got five different views 5 about what the budget should be and what's a reasonable amount of carryover 6 and so on and so forth.
7 And we collectively have to incorporate the views, formal 8 and informal, of the Congress and of the Office of Management and Budget 9 and our licensees and others, but given the dynamism and kind of speaking 10 for myself, at some point there's a certain amount of change that has to 11 happen.
12 And then you kind of take a breather and you reevaluate and 13 you kind of check in with everybody and you take your pulse and you take the 14 organization's pulse and then you go back and you start up again in terms of 15 those things, and making sure that we haven't changed so much we've gotten 16 so far down the highway without the wheel fully attached to the car that we've, 17 you know, create a situation where you need to make some longer term 18 course corrections which we don't want to do. We want to be in tune with the 19 organization and understand what's going on at that line level. So, thank you.
20 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Commissioner Baran?
21 COMMISSIONER BARAN: You know, and just kind of 22 taking -- I agree with all that and, you know, segueing maybe a little bit more 23 on the budget piece in particular, you know, as I think of just our last few years, 24 our budget's come down a lot and starting with Project AIM and then 25 continuing in more recent efforts.
26 And I think, you know, Commissioner Hanson would know
30 1 this more than any of the others on the Commission, but I think we actually 2 have quite a bit of credibility now with appropriators on Congress. They know 3 we've done a good job, you know, getting our budget to a place where we're 4 asking for what we need. And to me though, that then becomes really a key 5 principle going forward. We can't let the impulse to constantly find a new 6 efficiency or reduce a resource get in the way of making sure we ask for what 7 we need. And I think that's kind of, you know, an underlying assumption of 8 the question, which is that hey, you know, I don't really have the budget I need 9 to do this. I need to do my day-to-day work and I want to do these other, you 10 know, transformational type efforts and do I have the budget to do everything 11 I need to do.
12 And I think as an agency we just have to make sure we are 13 submitting budget requests that get at all that and we're asking for what we 14 really need and we're not kind of self-censoring because, you know, we've 15 had a huge decrease in our budget in the short period of time. We've got to 16 make sure we don't overdo it and we make sure we are asking for what we 17 need and budgeting that way.
18 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Commissioner Caputo?
19 COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: One thing I wonder if staff is 20 aware, I know those of us at the Commission level, the leadership level, are 21 certainly perhaps more familiar with what goes on in the appropriations 22 process and how we budget. But for other staff out there, they might just see 23 our budget going down and wonder that we don't have enough in the way of 24 resources.
25 And so I think for those who aren't aware, you know, we 26 ended fiscal year 2019 with $59 million that we didn't use, $59 million in
31 1 carryover. So to the extent for staff that may be concerned about whether or 2 not we have the resources, we do tend to end years with a number of FTE, 3 usually over 150 slots that we haven't used and a serious amount of carryover, 4 59. I'm not sure what it is yet for fiscal '20. But we have been, I think, asking 5 for what we need but we're projecting two years in advance.
6 And in the meantime, the workload shrinks, plants shut 7 down, another four reactors will be gone next fall that we didn't budget for in 8 the time that we were making up the 2021 budget. So because of the fact 9 that we are budgeting two years in the future things do change and so I think 10 there's a fair amount of attention that gets paid toward making sure that we 11 are asking for enough and not shorting ourselves.
12 But to the extent that as things change, by the time the 13 budget cycle actually arrives and the money is spent, we end up with a fair 14 amount left over, so I hope that sort of eases some concerns on the part of 15 staff who may be worried that we don't actually have the resources we need.
16 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you.
17 I think we are ready for the next question, Tia.
18 MS. HAYNES: The next question is focused around 19 COVID. Please talk about the plans, when and how, et cetera, the agency 20 may fully open the buildings and move away from telework flexibilities we have 21 now. For instance, will we have maximum telework until a vaccine is 22 released?
23 Will those who have had the vaccine be expected to come 24 back to work in the building? Will staff who have at-risk family at home be 25 able to continue with maximum telework even after a vaccine is widely 26 distributed?
32 1 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you. And I appreciate that 2 question covers some different bases here. I'll just begin by saying that I 3 mentioned earlier throughout COVID I had an opportunity as Chairman here 4 to listen in on discussions where different agencies and leaders at my level or 5 senior levels throughout the federal government have kind of compared notes, 6 more frequently in early days, and now it's just settled in to a more stabilized 7 cadence. But I think that one of the things that again, I said I walk away from 8 those discussions and I'm grateful for a lot of the things. One thing I'm very 9 grateful for here is that Margie recognized so early on that we should get a 10 cross-functional taskforce put together.
11 That it should have senior awareness through Dan and that 12 we would make sure that we were doing really well-informed and 13 comprehensive decision making as we moved through the initial uncertainty, 14 then began to learn more as everyone is becoming more knowledgeable, both 15 about how to operate under the public health emergency on a sustained basis, 16 learning more about COVID-19 and the coronavirus family so there's medical 17 knowledge that we're gaining, we're using that to feed that in, and to have the 18 NRC offices have Admin, you know, focused on facilities. As Commissioner 19 Caputo has mentioned and others have talked about, we have had staff that 20 have needed to continue to operate from our facilities throughout COVID, so 21 what we've done is we've put that into this team. And it's one of the reasons 22 that we enjoy having a Commission is that people bring different questions to 23 the table and through that we have a good rigor in our consideration of issues 24 and decision making.
25 So that structure that was established early on and 26 continues to this day, they're not as active as they were in early days but we
33 1 still have that same very meticulous approach to answering as we go forward 2 the specific questions that were laid out just now when Tia read the subparts 3 of that question, you know, what will happen when this happens and what will 4 happen when that happen.
5 Always front of mind in the taskforce's work in the things that 6 bubbled up to the Commission has been a primary focus on the care and 7 safety of our employees. And if at bottom the question is meant to get a 8 reaction to is that going to change, my answer is I don't see that changing.
9 So we're learning a lot as NRC. We're learning a lot as a 10 country about how to move through something like this. I'm optimistic on 11 vaccines as I said, but the deployment is very complicated. It is going to be 12 logistically very challenging, and I think if you're like me you're increasingly 13 hearing in the media about when limited vaccine is available who will be the 14 priority recipients.
15 And as you would imagine, we need to have caregivers, we 16 need to have nursing home staff, medical providers, I think we all as a country, 17 as an agency, agree with that, agree with both. That has to be rolled out in a 18 priority fashion based on what medically makes sense and then it will simply 19 take time to have a ubiquitous availability.
20 So when I said I think 2021 might end up looking a lot like 21 the stabilized condition we're in now I can't give you exact answers on the 22 questions on flexibilities and things, but what I can say is NRC has set up a 23 really solid structure for constant reevaluation, like county by county.
24 We have folks who live as far as West Virginia and folks that 25 live three blocks away from, you know, White Flint. So it's been very 26 interesting jurisdictionally to kind of peer into the work of the task force and
34 1 the fidelity and granularity with which they are talking about these questions.
2 And we know that that kind of heterogeneous situation 3 applies to our workforce as well. We have people with school-age children.
4 We have people caregiving. We have people with medical considerations of 5 their own. We have people in age or health demographics that appear from 6 current research to be disproportionately at risk.
7 And I think we're going what I forecast not being able to 8 answer those set of questions with hard dates and metrics is, I see NRC taking 9 this approach that has benefited us, continuing it into the future, continuing to 10 look at these questions, continuing to give -- and how many times this morning 11 did each of us say that it's our people. We don't make widgets here and we 12 don't, you know, we're not making things of hand sanitizer or whatever. We'd 13 all be really, really wealthy if we were making Lysol wipes.
14 But what we do, it's our people that make possible what we 15 do and so we're going to have to give the requisite priority to making sure.
16 There's nothing to be gained from people in harm's way upon whom your 17 success depends, so we have to navigate the important mission for the 18 American people and making sure that the NRC staff and contractors and 19 others who help us get this done that we're giving the requisite care and 20 concern to their needs.
21 I don't know if anyone wants to -- Commissioner Hanson?
22 COMMISSIONER HANSON: Thank you, Chairman. I 23 mean, I think part of what I heard in the question was what you talked at the 24 opening of the meeting, right, that how to dispel this kind of oppressive cloud 25 of uncertainty that we're all living under and by saying well, gosh, if I can get 26 a little bit of certainty about what's going to happen when this happens and so
35 1 on and so forth, then that is kind of a relief.
2 And I think you hit exactly the right note that the safety and 3 the health and well-being of the staff is absolutely paramount, and I join you 4 in not being able to imagine a situation in which that would change.
5 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Commissioner Caputo?
6 COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: One of the things that I think 7 is hugely important in a situation where we're forced to dealing with this kind 8 of uncertainty is communication. And this was a conversation that Margie 9 and I had very early on, because if there isn't adequate communication it's 10 very easy for people to imagine that well, there must be secret conversations 11 happening at the leadership level that the rest of us aren't privy to. Gee, I 12 wonder what they're really talking about and what's really going on.
13 And so it becomes just invariably crucial for leadership to be 14 communicating. The more uncertainty there is, the more important it is. And 15 so even just say, you know, there's uncertainty. We don't know any more 16 today than we did yesterday, but we are tracking this and so on. I just think 17 the tools that Margie and her staff has used to reach out and communicate 18 with the staff, it looks impressive from where I am. You know, I hope it's been 19 useful and reassuring for the bulk of the staff to get these, you know, a lot of 20 times daily reports.
21 So I would just caution folks that just because you haven't 22 heard or you haven't seen an answer to a question, you know, there are a 23 couple reasons for that. One, the question may not be answered, and two, 24 just because it hasn't been answered doesn't mean that there aren't people 25 looking at it and trying to sort it out and trying to find out what that answer is 26 and that, you know, as soon as we have answers to get them out to people so
36 1 that they understand.
2 And I think just to the extent that we can communicate as 3 much as we can communicate at any point in time, I hope, is beneficial to staff.
4 There's a lot of uncertainty that we can't address and we can't answer yet, but 5 we can do our best to communicate everything we do know. And I do want 6 to commend the staff for that communications effort.
7 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Commissioner Wright?
8 COMMISSIONER WRIGHT: Thank you. I totally agree 9 and would like to build off of Commissioner Caputo's remarks.
10 Just to put you at ease out there, I have not heard anybody 11 at this table or in the leadership around here that has said we're going back at 12 any certain time.
13 They are -- you know, the most important thing is to keep 14 our people safe and to keep them healthy because I don't want to be around 15 you if you're like that, and I don't want you to be here if, you know, if it's not 16 time for you to be back here. And one thing that Margie said from the 17 beginning, and Mark was the same way when he was doing the more daily 18 routine stuff, and that is there will be plenty of notice given of what the plan is.
19 It will be well communicated.
20 So, I think the communication has been done very well, and 21 if we've had questions from our offices to Margie or to anybody else, they have 22 dug into it and got us, you know, got us the answer.
23 And, you know, so I feel very comfortable with where we are 24 as an agency right now and I don't see any pressure being applied for us to 25 return until the time is right.
26 COMMISSIONER BARAN: I don't think that leaves
37 1 anything for me to say. I think my colleagues completely covered it. And I 2 hope that for folks listening, that's, you know, collectively those answers are 3 reassuring to folks because they're meant to be and they should be.
4 Margie or Dan, I don't know if there's anything that we 5 missed collectively that you wanted to mention?
6 MR. DORMAN: This is Dan. I agree with everything that's 7 been said here. I think the one thing I would just expand upon, and as the 8 Chairman mentioned, the counties around headquarters.
9 The working group is continuously monitoring the counties 10 around all six of the locations where we have offices and the regions are 11 monitoring all of the locations where we're looking at sending inspectors out.
12 So, all of that is factoring into the decision making on 13 inspection planning over the coming weeks, as well as monitoring the situation 14 more globally around the NRC facilities and when any change may be 15 appropriate.
16 And then I would just reiterate what Commissioner Wright 17 said, that when we see a need to do something different, there will be 18 notification in advance so people can plan how that affects them and their 19 families.
20 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you for that, Dan. I always 21 just use the examples closest to me, but absolutely, and I should have 22 mentioned all of our locations.
23 And I know some have wondered if, you know, are you 24 constantly looking at my area because I haven't heard anything in a while?
25 That's like Commissioner Caputo said. That doesn't mean that it isn't 26 constantly being reevaluated.
38 1 And I told you Tia and Gina, I would lose track, but I think 2 it's Gina.
3 MS. DAVIS: Okay, this was touched on during this 4 morning's briefing. So, the next question is what are your views on how well 5 positioned the NRC is to maintain a skilled workforce and a cadre of future 6 leaders?
7 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Well, I'll start out because then I 8 can say just something really obvious before others claim it, which is that there 9 was mention this morning of the hiring we've done recently while limited. I 10 think it was Laura Dudes said they are so like accomplished and impressive, 11 and I'll say this even though I --
12 Sometimes I read like, or even if it's maybe a senior resident 13 inspector that's been selected or something, I read their credentials and 14 background and I'm like, I don't think I could qualify to work here.
15 That's like sometimes how I feel, which seems like a not --
16 but thank goodness I'm not an inspector, and whenever I've gone to a facility 17 and at the end of the visit, they said to me, the licensee says, "Well, what do 18 you think?" I'm like, ask these good people from the NRC, the inspectors that 19 are with me. I am in no way credentialed to do their job.
20 So, that gives me a lot of optimism about the future, just --
21 and it's not a surprise to me that these wonderful, qualified, accomplished 22 people want to work here, and it is competitive because there are people that 23 are similarly credentialed.
24 So, we're -- that puts us in this luxurious situation of taking 25 the people that we think are going to be the best fit here and it's an 26 embarrassment of riches in that sense.
39 1 You know, the open question is, you know, will there be 2 sufficient numbers? This morning, we talked a lot about people like it here, 3 so they come and stay, so we've got that going for us, but on the other hand, 4 there is a period in time that people say, much like Miriam Cohen from this 5 morning talked about, you know, she's retiring.
6 People have other things they want to do. They want to 7 spend more time maybe on projects, or grandchildren, or any number of 8 reasons I've heard about attending NRC retirements over the years.
9 So, the question then becomes like are we putting the right 10 considerations in place to both have the numbers of people, to be providing 11 training and rescaling?
12 I hate that term, but I use it because that's what people say, 13 but just basically to say this person has 85 percent of what they need to do a 14 job we need them to do. Let's just train them the other 20 rather than bring 15 in an external hire and have to do a more comprehensive rooting in our 16 regulatory framework.
17 So, I'm optimistic, but my optimism comes with the caveat 18 that it will take very careful monitoring and I think incessant adjusting and 19 modifying exactly, you know, who are the people we're targeting for retention.
20 Who are the people that we're really trying to get them to 21 agree to be retrained or rescaled for something else? And then who and what 22 types of skill sets and levels of experience should we be bringing in, either 23 from other agencies or from outside the government? So, with constant 24 attention, I am optimistic.
25 I think the other thing to confront which I'll toss in here, but 26 this is a little wonky and I don't know kind of the areas the folks originating this
40 1 question or area of questioning were asking about, but if you work in reactor 2 space, there is such a diversity of types of new technologies and designs that 3 I think that NRC will have to take a fundamental look at whether it is realistic 4 to have an entire ecosystem of homegrown experts that know this type of 5 reactor technology.
6 Well, that's a different way of going about it. As I engage 7 with our international peers and regulators from around the country, some 8 have technical support organizations, and I realize the Office of Research 9 probably just had a heart attack. What I'm saying is that it is a blend of saying 10 that this institute or national lab might have a center of excellence on some 11 attribute of a different fuel or a different, you know, power generating, or even 12 a medical technology.
13 We might, rather than having the time and bandwidth to 14 become completely expert, we may be needing to lean into our folks in 15 contracting and others to make sure we have free of conflict of interest access 16 to, you know, academic institutes or others that could supplement.
17 Because when you're regulating a lot of the same thing, you 18 can really have it all in-house, but I think that NRC, if it's reviewing 12 designs 19 that look different ten years from now or even less, I just don't know that we 20 would have enough time to get there and have it all inside our own system.
21 So, those are just some considerations on the topic. Would 22 anyone else like to -- Commissioner Baran?
23 COMMISSIONER BARAN: Just briefly. I think I really 24 appreciate the question because it's just a critical issue for the agency, making 25 sure we have the workforce were going to need to keep doing the work we're 26 going to be doing ten, 20, 30 years from now.
41 1 And I'll be honest, a couple of years ago, I was pretty 2 discouraged because we had gotten down to basically negligible external 3 hires and it had stayed there for kind of a while, and I didn't think that was 4 really a healthy place to be for the organization because you need to have 5 new talent coming into the organization.
6 And it has started to turn around over the last couple of 7 years. Those numbers are coming up, you know, and if we had the graph in 8 front of us, it's pretty steep from the last couple of years. And if we've got 9 attrition of, you know, maybe 180 or so people from this last fiscal year and 10 we hired about 100, it's still, from my point of view, probably not enough. I 11 think we need to keep --
12 I think we're going to have to have a sustained commitment 13 to external hiring in the coming years at higher levels than we achieve now, 14 but it's really, I think, a marked improvement from where it was a year or two 15 ago.
16 So, I'm encouraged by that and I'm looking forward to having 17 more cohorts of NRAN coming in, having that pipeline of new talent and the 18 lateral hiring externally.
19 None of that forecloses, you know, people filling positions 20 from within, but I think there are always going to be new openings created and 21 we're going to need to bring folks in to fill those positions because while it's 22 true, you know, we may have a reactor here closing or a reactor there, or one 23 project ends, we have so work that still is left to be done and new workicoming 24 in.
25 And so we need to make sure we have the workforce to do 26 that and it's going to be more than just targeted external hiring. We're going
42 1 to need real external hiring for, you know, the foreseeable future.
2 I think that would be true even if we didn't have so many 3 people who are retirement eligible, but particularly with that, I think it's going 4 to be important.
5 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Commissioner Caputo?
6 COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: I think we're doing okay for 7 now, but I would probably liken it to jumping rope. I think as long as we 8 remain focused, we'll be fine, but if we lose our focus, it's very easy to get 9 tripped up.
10 I think a lot of what we heard this morning is very 11 encouraging about how to -- how we are using, you know, workforce planning, 12 some of the human capital data analytics going on.
13 We're looking at how our workload shifts over time with 14 strategic workforce planning, and using a lot of these tools to help employees 15 learn what their opportunities may be in the future and how to plan a career 16 path that they're excited about that really emphasizes their skills and their 17 interests, and help them develop into the jobs that we will have in the future.
18 And so I think we have a lot of great tools that are underway 19 that are very, very helpful, but I do think the profile of, you know, the 20 embarrassment of riches that we have in terms of very senior, very 21 experienced personnel that will leave big shoes to fill.
22 And so we need to remain focused, I think, on just the profile 23 in our workforce and make sure that we are offering training opportunities, 24 mentoring and coaching to help people develop into the positions that will be 25 coming open as those folks leave the agency and journey into retirement. So, 26 I do think it's an area that we will need to remain vigilant on for quite a while.
43 1 COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: Thank you. Commissioner 2 Hanson?
3 COMMISSIONER HANSON: Thank you. No, I think 4 that's -- I'll touch on, I think, what some of my colleagues have said, right. All 5 organizations have to make a complex set of decisions around whether or not 6 to make or buy things, right, whether --
7 And sometimes that's, I think, to the Chairman's point, that 8 sometimes that's going to be around a specific technology, whether we buy 9 that from, say, a university, or a national lab, or what have you.
10 In terms of the making of talent, you know, I'm particularly 11 optimistic about the university programs and our relationships with them 12 through workforce development programs and the integrated university 13 program itself, as well as the 36-ish research reactors that are out there as 14 really being kind of test beds.
15 Commissioner Baran and I both had the chance recently to 16 talk to the research and test reactor community, and at least, you know, one 17 of the things that I tried to emphasize in my talk was, you know, these reactors 18 provide opportunities for students to actually learn regulatory skills in addition 19 to technical skills, which are so important.
20 All of these things are licensed. They come in for license 21 amendments. We process those amendments, and so there is -- again, I love 22 the term that you used, Chairman Svinicki, the ecosystem around these 23 things.
24 I think there's rich soil to grow talent in the country's 25 universities for some of the skills that we're going to need down the road.
26 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Yes, Commissioner Wright?
44 1 COMMISSIONER WRIGHT: I can't pass this up. You 2 know, I really appreciate how the agency has started to address this because 3 it had been a stale area. A couple of years ago, I think it was recognized that 4 we -- the recruitment initiatives that we had out there had to be really fired up 5 again, and we recognized that.
6 I think during the summer intern hire, not last year, maybe it 7 was last year or the end of the year before, you know, we got the high school 8 science project stuff that gets people encouraged, and the university program 9 is going to grow.
10 The NRAN program is just awesome. You know, I've had 11 the opportunity to speak to these young men and women for the last couple 12 of years and I'm even proud there's a Clemson guy in there, you know, so, 13 Hayden, but I appreciate that the agency is -- I can't pass the opportunity to 14 hit Clemson every now and then, just prop them up. You got to represent.
15 But I really appreciate the way that the agency has started 16 to focus on this, Margie, and, you know, Miriam's been key in trying to put this 17 stuff together, and hopefully Mary's going to follow through and do even more 18 with that, so thank you.
19 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: All right, thank you very much. I 20 think we are ready for the next question, Gina.
21 MS. DAVIS: The next question is focused on new reactors.
22 This summer, the NRC affirmed new guidance on non-light water reactor 23 methodologies, including new reactor technologies, advanced, and small 24 modular reactors.
25 Congress has urged the NRC to step up its advanced 26 reactor rulemaking known as Part 53. What are your thoughts on the steps
45 1 the agency is taking to support these new and advanced technologies?
2 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Well, I will just share a thought and 3 quick reaction. First of all, I'm harkening back to the very interesting and valid 4 question about how can I be transforming or modernizing a process while I'm 5 doing it?
6 There is a way, and people may say this is unrealistic, but 7 kind of standing that question on its head and saying if I get a really interesting 8 case in here, it's like a wonderful opportunity to go about developing it in a 9 different way.
10 Now, rulemaking is something that has existed since the 11 origins of the NRC, so we have had a responsibility to do rulemaking and to 12 carry that out under the structure that's laid out for us in law of the 13 Administrative Procedure Act, and so we have a lot of ways that we've done 14 that.
15 We have a tremendous track record, but one way of looking 16 at Congress' strong bipartisan interest in advanced reactors and their 17 eagerness to have NRC set the rules of the road somewhat in a regulation, so 18 that is -- I differentiate that from how we've been doing it.
19 We've been really engaged with people before they apply to 20 us for a review through the pre-application engagement and working with them 21 to find the right kind of lane to be funneled through in terms of the development 22 of their technology and marrying that up with the NRC's process for ultimately 23 making these safety and environmental findings that we make to approve a 24 design.
25 So, I viewed the staff's proposal on this particular 26 rulemaking, which does have a deadline for completion that's laid out in law.
46 1 That's not typical around here, so usually we have a little bit more discretion, 2 but had a no later than date laid out in law.
3 And the NRC staff had come forward with some innovative 4 ways to maybe give us greater confidence that given the challenge and 5 technical complexity of this particular rulemaking, how could they go about it 6 slightly differently and increase their odds of getting a good product out within 7 the time frame that the law allowed.
8 When I voted on it, my vote was meant as an 9 encouragement to take that creative impulse of releasing concepts, and 10 getting comment, and holding public meetings, and then iterating and 11 evolving.
12 It would have more iteration steps than how we traditionally 13 do rulemaking, but I thought if there was ever a subject matter that was tailor-14 made for this kind of rapid cycling and then releasing something and getting 15 reactions of people saying that will work or won't work based on the different 16 technologies.
17 In some ways, I kind of just thought the staff should just 18 double down, and if they're going to go innovative, they should just go all-in 19 innovative. So, this, I would say, is an opportunity to --
20 Now, it's a high consequence opportunity because there's a 21 lot of visibility on the subject matter, on the rulemaking, and it has a statutory 22 deadline, but sometimes you look at something and say I don't know, with my 23 traditional approaches, I'm not sure I'm going to get there with a good product 24 by the date stipulated, so in some ways, you have nothing to lose if you go 25 about it slightly differently.
26 So, those were just some ways that I approached the staff's
47 1 proposal to maybe innovate in more rapid cycles on this particular rulemaking.
2 My vote was intended to really encourage them in that regard. I don't know 3 if anyone else wants to talk about this particular matter. Commissioner 4 Caputo?
5 COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: One of the aspects of this I 6 think is important for us as an agency is just this is an entirely new area for us 7 to actually be regulating in, and technologies that may have been explored in 8 the '50s and '60s, to now see not just a couple of companies, but a whole 9 range of companies exploring a whole range of technologies, and it will be 10 extremely challenging for us to really be able to wrap our hands around it and 11 provide timely regulatory reviews that do meet our safety and security mission 12 and ensure adequate protection of health and safety.
13 And so given our history, I think it's really important for us to 14 finish this rulemaking in a time that supports a lot of these companies in terms 15 of the times that they are looking at for deployment because I think the further 16 out that rule is pushed, the more we force companies to come in under our 17 existing framework.
18 And while that is acceptable and we can do it, with this wide 19 range of technologies, they are all going to need slightly different exemptions.
20 You know, it will be case by case, and I think it gets incredibly complicated 21 very quickly.
22 And so, you know, I think our best approach, our most solid 23 approach is to try and get through this rulemaking to try and get these reviews 24 into what Congress looks at as a technology-inclusive, risk-informed, 25 performance-based rulemaking.
26 I don't think they could have squirted any more adjectives in
48 1 there, but that, I think, is really the best, most well-rounded approach to try 2 and provide timely reviews for these technologies that will be trying to come 3 into the market.
4 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Commissioner Hanson?
5 COMMISSIONER HANSON: Thank you. Yeah, I agree 6 with what the Chairman and Commissioner Caputo said. I think another 7 element of this, in order for it all to be successful too is on licensees, and to 8 interact early and often with the NRC.
9 I think some of the early successes that we've seen in the 10 advanced reactor area have been with folks who have ideas and have come 11 to the Commission with topical reports so that --
12 Because really as we go through this with the diverse array 13 of technologies, it's really going to be about opportunities for the staff to learn 14 and learn how these technologies can be safe, learn how they operate, learn 15 what the risks are, learn all of these things, and when the licensees come in, 16 it's maybe the part that we have the least control over, but I think it's also a 17 really critical element.
18 I think it would be very hard for anybody if a licensee came 19 in and had that completely finished product that nobody had ever seen before, 20 and kind of dropped it on the staff and said, okay, so, you know, let's run this 21 through Part 53, when oftentimes what we really need are a whole, as the 22 Chairman said, a whole iterative approach on both sides, both to our 23 rulemaking, but also an iterative approach to specific technologies and our 24 evaluation of them, so, thank you.
25 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you. Anyone else?
26 Commissioner Baran?
49 1 COMMISSIONER BARAN: Well, I don't know if this is a 2 terribly profound point, but, you know, something that Commissioner Caputo 3 said made me think of it.
4 And I do think, you know, the trick we'll have is we're in a 5 situation where we're simultaneously going to be doing this rule and the staff 6 will be reviewing individual applications that are coming in. You know, so, 7 one has already come in. I don't think it will be the last.
8 And so, you know, I think we'll have to be flexible and the 9 staff is going to really have to be focused on, you know, how we resource this 10 in a way that works, that progress can continue to be made on the overall 11 framework, which I agree, we want to get in place, that ideally, you know, you 12 get it in place as soon as you can, but also, you know, continuing the very 13 specific work of dealing with reviews of individual applications.
14 And, you know, I'm a -- I don't have any concerns about 15 meeting the statutory deadline for that rulemaking, and I think it's good to be 16 looking for opportunities to accelerate that, and the Commission, you know, 17 ended up with an SRM that is targeting, you know, 2024 for the completion of 18 that rulemaking.
19 I do look at it as a pretty challenging rule. I think it's going 20 to be a tough rule and, you know, when you have an approach of let's start 21 with a blank sheet of paper and have a potentially extremely broad scope, not 22 to mention all of the different technologies that in many ways aren't very much 23 alike, and try to do all of that in one rulemaking, it's not going to be easy.
24 I mean, I think it's -- that's not to be pessimistic about it. It's 25 just I think it's going to be a challenging rule to do. You know, we see a lot of 26 rulemakings that do one thing or two things that are focused on a fairly narrow
50 1 issue. That's not going to be this rule. It's going to be much broader than 2 that, broader scope and more challenging.
3 And so I think we're just going to need to be flexible. You 4 know, in an ideal world, we'd have that framework in place and then 5 applications would come in. Well, we're not in the ideal world. That's not 6 where we are.
7 Applications are already coming in and we're still years 8 away from having the framework completely in place, but we're going to have 9 and the staff's going to have just a, you know, an important, but tough 10 balancing act of doing the general and the specific at the same time.
11 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Okay, thank you. Gina, we're 12 ready for the next question.
13 MS. DAVIS: Okay, the next question is on diversity and 14 inclusion. We have received a couple of questions pertaining to the recent 15 executive order about diversity and inclusion training and programming.
16 The EO requires that OPM review diversity and 17 management training before it is conducted by an agency. Does that prohibit 18 all discussion of diversity in the agency?
19 Would the Commissioners be willing to comment on the 20 potential impacts on our staff and on our ability to attract and retain a diverse 21 staff from pausing these activities?
22 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Well, thank you, and I -- in this 23 morning's meeting, we had, I thought, some really great exchange on this, and 24 so I mean this in the most sincere way.
25 I will attempt to approach with any sophistication the answer 26 of what kind of evolved organically in this morning's meeting, but in all
51 1 sincerity, if a staff person had not and did not have a chance to see that, if you 2 could go look at the archive webcast, and I meant when I complimented 3 Commissioner Hanson who just happened to lead off our questioning this 4 morning.
5 He explored with the NRC staff and multiple members of the 6 panel just to get complete clarity on the dialogues that we not only can have, 7 but we should be having and we need to continue to have.
8 So, I commend that to you because I can't possibly --
9 someone asks you, you know, later and says, oh, I heard something 10 informative happened. Retell it to me right now. You always feel pressure 11 like I can't possibly create that from this morning, but --
12 And in terms of the executive order, I think as was also 13 discussed this morning, we are moving as an agency that is complying with 14 the order. We're moving through the steps. I don't know if we've submitted 15 some of the information.
16 Perhaps Margie or someone can just augment my answer, 17 but, you know, we have submitted information to OPM consistent with the 18 executive order, and I'm confident.
19 You know, just on the nature of the activities we conduct 20 here, I'm confident that depending on how voluminous OPM's review is, I'm 21 confident that we would, you know, sooner hopefully than later receive any 22 kind of clearance we need to move forward.
23 And I don't know if Margie, in terms of the sequence of 24 events, you want to talk about that?
25 MS. DOANE: Okay, yeah, let me take that and add a little 26 bit to the question, Chairman. I think you hit it well and I think that this
52 1 morning's conversation was really important and had a good discussion about 2 what we can and can't do right now.
3 So, we have suspended our training as you indicated to be 4 consistent with the order, but we can continue and have all intention of 5 continuing to have the discussions around, you know, what behaviors promote 6 a diverse and inclusive workforce, and one that's embracing of change and 7 allowing people to bring their whole selves to work.
8 People should still feel comfortable reporting any kind of 9 harassment or any kind of anything that they feel isn't appropriate. All of 10 those mechanisms are still in place for staff to report, and they should, and 11 then they should feel free to have these conversations that they've been 12 having about, you know, how they're personally feeling and what kind of 13 support they need as we go forward because it's a really difficult time right 14 now, so that's number one.
15 Number two, with respect to our submission, we don't have 16 the submission complete yet, but we are in constant contact with OPM 17 because we just have a few questions about a few things that have to go down 18 and some different things, but we are working on that and trying to get it out 19 as quickly as possible.
20 And we are confident that what we send down, all of our 21 training, will come back as approved because we think it is consistent with 22 what is not prohibited by the order.
23 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thanks for that, Margie. Did 24 anyone else want to chime in? The question was broad. Commissioner 25 Hanson?
26 COMMISSIONER HANSON: Well, thank you. I mean,
53 1 you know, Stephen Smith, you know, said this morning and I thought he was 2 pretty clear about the discussions that people are still allowed to have, right?
3 So, I think the answer to that, can people have these discussions? At least 4 what I heard him say this morning was yes, absolutely, right?
5 And really, I mean, a lot of this comes down to, and it always 6 comes down to the people in the NRC and the individual interactions that they 7 have, right, and helping our fellow employees understand, you know, our own 8 perspectives, and backgrounds, and reaching out, and understanding where 9 they're coming from, you know, their histories and their perspectives as well.
10 And so all of that kind of interacts together, and I'm hopeful 11 that we will get through this OPM wicket that's been set up for us and that the 12 training that people have really appreciated and gotten so much out of at the 13 NRC to date will be able to continue.
14 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you. Yes, Commissioner 15 Wright?
16 COMMISSIONER WRIGHT: So, this morning's dialogue 17 was very good and I do also recommend it to you. If you want, go watch it, 18 please.
19 But one thing that was important and is important for people 20 to understand is this wasn't targeted at the NRC. It was all, you know, it was 21 every agency in government, so we're just responding to the request like 22 everybody else is having to do.
23 I agree with Margie that once everything is reviewed, I'm 24 positive that we're going to be cleared because I know the employees here, 25 you know. I've seen them. I've met them. I've talked to them. I've 26 participated with them.
54 1 So, I feel very confident and I'm very proud of the way that 2 our agency as a whole, person to person, just behaves and respects each 3 other, so that's all I have to say.
4 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you. Anyone else?
5 Commissioner Caputo?
6 COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: I would like to just briefly say 7 that, you know, while this executive order may create some confusion and 8 uncertainty in people's minds, I mean, one thing remains absolutely clear and 9 that is that discrimination has no place in our workforce.
10 And, you know, whether it's a matter of feeling comfortable 11 to make a contribution in a meeting, or whether it's the comfort level to raise a 12 concern, it's important for us as an agency that it's a welcoming environment 13 and that those contributions, no matter what they are, are respected.
14 And so I think one of the things that's very encouraging to 15 me was Stephen's talk this morning about just his office and the work they do, 16 and everything that gets done to advance a work environment where we are 17 focused on civility, and diversity, and inclusion.
18 And, you know, I think that's important for us to remain 19 focused on, you know, as we work our way through the details of this review 20 and its outcome.
21 COMMISSIONER BARAN: I completely agree. I couldn't 22 have said it any better.
23 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Well, when someone says that, I 24 shouldn't say anything more on the topic, but I did just want to --
25 (Laughter.)
26 COMMISSIONER BARAN: You might be able to say it
55 1 better. I can't say it better.
2 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: No, well, I'm not sure, but that 3 always seems like the finishing brush stroke, so maybe I should stop.
4 But as I was listening this morning and just now, you know, 5 I have served. I serve with these fine fellow members of the Commission 6 now, but I have served with a lot of commissioners and, you know, have 7 served under many chairmen here, and, you know, we are also a part of this 8 organization's culture.
9 And many of us, not under COVID, but, you know, where 10 we can have our affinity group gatherings, and the heritage events, and the 11 other things, I don't know if the staff would be aware that often commissioners 12 leave and are talking to each other about individual testimonials or 13 perspectives that we've heard there about what it reminded us of in our own 14 life experience.
15 And so we draw energy and strength from those events just 16 like any other employee here. I mean, our experience when we sit and listen 17 to a guest speaker is no different, so we are enriched by that and it's true.
18 And, you know, I have served with a lot of different 19 individuals, people of different backgrounds, personality types, and I was 20 trying to in my mind think, all right, was there ever anyone who didn't, you 21 know, I didn't have that kind of exchange with after attending one of these 22 group's events and/or coming from the twice yearly EEO-focused discussions 23 that we have as a Commission.
24 So, you know, as we work through this process, the 25 Commission, I think, will be as eager as any other NRC employee to get 26 through the review and recommence, so I just wanted to add that and I think
56 1 we are ready for another question.
2 MS. DAVIS: Given the declines in the OIG safety culture 3 survey that would indicate a decline in the NRC's safety culture, what steps 4 do you see the Commission taking to help improve the safety culture within 5 the NRC?
6 Has the Commission considered revising its policy 7 statement on safety conscious work environment to include internal safety 8 culture, which was removed between the draft statement and the final 9 statement, and/or expressing support for legislation to improve the protections 10 for the NRC staff who raise concerns?
11 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: I am seeing note taking because I 12 think there's some more general request for reaction and then there's some 13 specifics that I might not be entirely conversant in some of the details of survey 14 changes over the course of time, which I think I heard in the question.
15 Let me begin at kind of the highest, widest aperture on this 16 question, which is that as a member of this Commission, now as Chairman, I 17 take very seriously when, you know, the results are coming out and I hear it's 18 declines. It's some strengths, but overall, you know, it doesn't look good.
19 I bring the same kind of care and attention to that as I think 20 any other NRC member, or Commissioner, or leader would say I need to really 21 look at this and see what is it? Because it isn't just one marker. It is a whole 22 set of interrelated markers and survey instruments.
23 And so in looking at that, speaking only for myself because 24 each member of the Commission reviews and forms their own views on any 25 of these survey instruments that we do internally, I felt that I could make some 26 cognitive connection between areas that had seen decreases and some of
57 1 what I know the organization is going through right now.
2 That is not kind of grabbing excuses or saying, oh, I 3 attributed it to a high-level trend, so I don't give it any more thought, because 4 that's not how we take safety culture survey results here.
5 But I do think that you are going to see, depending on what 6 is the organization challenged with right now, some of these many questions 7 are going to indicate and point you towards things that are challenges for us 8 as an organization.
9 And that doesn't make us deficient. It doesn't make us 10 diminished. It just, there's a logical correlation and some things I understand 11 based on the question.
12 The other thing is the longer you're here and the more you 13 read these questions, and you look at the individual questions and their 14 results, you think to yourself, oh, you know, some of this, I know that this part 15 of our organization is looking at this, or we're having cuts in corporate support, 16 or there's overall a lack of promotion opportunity on people.
17 So, and again, it isn't to kind of wish it away or reason it 18 away, but those kinds of survey results, the reason that leaders at every level 19 and members of the Commission look at it with such granularity is because 20 we can, in our knowledge of the organization, say this set of targeted 21 responses to this overall rating are probably going to be the ones that would 22 have the best remedying effect on the declines we're seeing.
23 So, we need to understand it at a forensic level because we 24 will then be engaging the NRC leadership on what are the measures that the 25 organization is going to take in response to what we see here.
26 So, that's just kind of generally the process through which I
58 1 take onboard the survey results. I monitor them from survey to survey, and 2 then as a member of the Commission, always engaging with the staff on how 3 they're going to react.
4 I don't know if there's any elements of that process, Margie, 5 you would want to -- that I'm kind of missing there or in terms of the staff 6 developing action plans and responses that you'd like to talk about?
7 MS. DOANE: Thanks, Chairman. Yes, I would like to talk 8 about this because we have looked at the data and we have a team that's 9 actually looking at the culture as a whole of the agency.
10 And they have taken this data and also the FEVS data that 11 we received, and they have analyzed all of this information and put in place a 12 plan where they have laid out milestones for all of us, and it is at the 13 organization level because, as you alluded to, the data isn't the same for every 14 aspect of the organization.
15 So, each separate group within our agency, each separate 16 organization, is going to have to look at this data themselves and their data 17 and see what change would really be necessary at their level.
18 But also there are some things that we need to do at the 19 agency level. So, we have the culture team that's continuing to work. They 20 integrated all of this data. They have ambassadors that are in every single 21 office.
22 They've put milestones in place to talk about what the next 23 steps should be and they've identified already a set of behaviors that we think 24 will take us from what our behaviors are now to where our behaviors, a more 25 embracing culture where that would be.
26 They've identified those working with the executives and
59 1 staff because they've gone out and done focus groups and gathered 2 information through not only their survey, but then focus groups. So, that's to 3 say we are doing a very intensive effort to address what we have seen.
4 One thing I will point out, and you can slice and dice this 5 data however you want, but two things that we did pay attention to right away 6 were that the ability to raise safety issues, staff actually responded more 7 positively.
8 Now, it was just a small uptick, but it was comforting to all of 9 us because we knew that we were going through change, and so we 10 anticipated that people would be unsettled, but we were hoping that in the 11 areas that were most important, are they committed to the mission, do they 12 understand the mission, and then ability to raise safety issues, that we were 13 more confident.
14 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you. Did anyone else want 15 to -- Commissioner Baran?
16 COMMISSIONER BARAN: Well, I do think it harkens back 17 a little bit to something we were talking about earlier which is particularly when 18 we were talking about making a change, you know, in terms of oversight, or 19 inspection, or substantive standards, it's just going to be so crucial that we do 20 get the variety of perspectives early in that process, and hear folks out, and 21 make sure we're hearing all of that.
22 And you know, there may not unanimity on every potential 23 change, and I guess there doesn't have to be for a recommendation to be 24 made to the Commission obviously, but I think it's going to be very important 25 for changes that are recommended to the Commission to have a really good 26 sense of where the staff is, not just, you know, kind of where management is,
60 1 ultimately where they end up on a recommendation, but what are the differing 2 views within the staff on those issues so that we can understand all of that.
3 And it's going to be really important and continues to be 4 really important for individual staff who have a particular view to step up and 5 express their view. You know, if there's a conversation going on and you 6 have a strong view, express it. It doesn't have to be a strong view. It could 7 just be a view. Express it, and make sure, you know, your voice is heard.
8 And then I think for the staff as a whole, we've got to make 9 sure we're just touching bases with all of the groups and subsets of the agency 10 that really matter, particularly if we're talking about inspection change. Make 11 sure we understand what the regions think about it. Make sure we 12 understand what individual inspectors think about it.
13 You know, we've kind of piloted some of the tools like the 14 Jam, right? I mean, you know, we could have a subset on some of these 15 issues with just the inspectors and understand where they are on different 16 issues.
17 And, you know, as we've kind of talked about in other 18 meetings, it's not that one person's right and one person's wrong, or one 19 person's good and one person's bad. There's going to be a variety of views, 20 and we've got to understand what all of those views are and really take them 21 into account.
22 And if we're doing that, if we're really doing that and we're 23 serious about doing that, you know, that's going to contribute to that safety 24 culture that we need here.
25 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you. Commissioner 26 Caputo?
61 1 COMMISSIONER CAPUTO: Well, this is another one of 2 those places where I think communication becomes absolutely essential.
3 And as I mentioned in this morning's meeting, one of the 4 concerns that I've heard voiced from staff is that, you know, they do these 5 surveys and they raise these concerns on the surveys and so on, but they 6 don't seem to see management act on it.
7 And so to the extent that agency leadership is looking at 8 these things and specifically taking efforts to address things that were 9 highlighted in those surveys, I would just encourage agency leaders and 10 managers to communicate that to the staff.
11 Because there needs to be a certain element of yes, we 12 heard you. We understand. We're working to improve these situations or 13 these particular aspects to let folks know that, you know, you didn't waste your 14 time filling out the survey. The input, you know, was not just taken and tallied, 15 but it was heard, and understood, and actively working to address it, and so I 16 think that communication component is also very important.
17 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Yes, thank you. Commissioner 18 Wright?
19 COMMISSIONER WRIGHT: Thank you. One thing I 20 don't want our employees to suffer from is survey fatigue because sometimes 21 I think you're surveyed back, to back, to back, to back, to back, right, and 22 sometimes you just, like, check the box. I'm done and I'm tired, and so I 23 would like them to know that we really look at this information and we try to 24 study it.
25 And I know that there's concern out there. You know, the 26 agency has been shrinking. You know, opportunities have been shrinking as
62 1 a result, so there's concern about, you know, the future, and we're all aware 2 of that and we're all trying to deal with it, and to try to make sure that everybody 3 is, you know, has a job, and has purpose, and feels good about what's 4 happening going forward.
5 So, you know, we're looking at those opportunities and we 6 need them to share with us and not to be afraid, you know, not to have any, 7 not to have that fear, and I think that's what kind of this morning was about 8 too.
9 So, and, you know, I know there's a lot of data out there.
10 Some data, you've been able to study real well, some not as deep as maybe 11 the FEVS survey stuff, but I do think that there's some particular areas where 12 we show really good results and we need to build off of that.
13 So, we don't need to focus all of the time on all of just the 14 negative stuff. We need to look at what's really working well because we can 15 build off of that as well, so I hope we're taking the time to do that.
16 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you for that. And, you 17 know, you're tempted to, the longer you're here and you realize that NRC is 18 used to getting an A+ on everything and they want to be the Lake Wobegon 19 of everyone's above average, you know, but, you know, other government 20 agencies are fighting just as fiercely to overtake --
21 Some have benchmarked against us and now they're 22 edging us out in some of their results, so that's what I mean about our culture 23 as a continuous learning organization and it's good that we will continue to try 24 to raise the bar for ourselves, and we're really, in the main, we are not content 25 with anything other than an excellent, very high mark wherever we're looking 26 at ourselves.
63 1 So, I appreciate that, as Commissioner Wright has 2 mentioned, you know, there are still areas even in a mixed result where we 3 really shine and we need to, you know, hold onto that as an important kind of 4 motivating, as something that we need to keep front of mind.
5 Now, I will very shortly recognize Sheryl Sanchez, but I think 6 that if I confine myself to a short answer and we all do the same, we could 7 have one more question.
8 MS. DAVIS: What is the biggest challenge today for the 9 Nuclear Regulatory Commission regarding the protection of power reactor 10 sites against cyberattacks and how are you addressing it?
11 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: You know, not just in order to give 12 a short answer, but it is among the most dynamic threats, I think, to any 13 country, and to our country with all of the information technology penetration 14 that we have.
15 We have a very solid track record and we have -- I'm very 16 confident in the cybersecurity regulations we have, but they are really oriented 17 around the types of systems, and reactors, and facilities that we have right 18 now.
19 As the industry looks to be a modern, more IT-connected 20 industry, we will have new regulatory challenges and looking at the penetration 21 of technology in facilities that right now, beyond the IT systems, they've been 22 able to buffer themselves and have more of a thought about kinetic processes 23 than cyber processes.
24 But it will be an area that we will continue to need to work 25 with the entire government interagency to monitor that threat and to continue 26 to evolve and shape our regulations in ways that we can continue to offer
64 1 equivalent confidence to the American public on the important challenge of 2 cyber. Commissioner Hanson?
3 COMMISSIONER HANSON: I think this is a great question 4 and I think there are at least three kind of interrelated aspects of it. One is 5 just cyber protection of the utility industry writ large and of the grid, right, and 6 those networks. Because of the dynamic demands on the grid, cyber 7 protection is more important than ever.
8 And then you kind of connect that and the possibility of 9 intrusion into substations, and transformers, and other kinds of things, and this 10 is where you make the connection to the existing plants themselves.
11 And I think there, it's kind of two, at least two things for us 12 that we have to grapple with. One is the digital aspect of the technology that's 13 emerging and that we're dealing with now, and then the wireless aspect too.
14 So, and you can see, right? We can island nuclear power 15 plants, isolate them from the grid, and that's a potential approach, but then 16 within that island itself, that we have to have the adequate protections, and 17 we've certainly got a number of things on the books, but we'll have to -- it's 18 going to be a constantly evolving and shifting area for us.
19 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Anyone else? Okay, I think with that, 20 before I recognize Sheryl, I want to thank Gina and Tia again. You've stood 21 in for so many voices of NRC employees. Here's a quiet little round of 22 applause for you both. Thank you so much, and you spoke on behalf of a lot 23 of colleagues and did a great job. Thank you.
24 And so as the final element in our all employee meeting this 25 afternoon, I will now recognize Sheryl Sanchez, who is the President of the 26 National Treasury Employees Union chapter here at the NRC, and Sheryl's
65 1 been kind enough to be available both for a meeting this morning and this 2 afternoon, but she will participate via remote video hookup, and so as long as 3 her Wi-Fi has stayed strong, she is still here. Sheryl, thank you so much for 4 being here. Please go ahead.
5 MS. SANCHEZ: Thank you. Good afternoon, Chairman 6 Svinicki, Commissioners, EDO Doane, NRC managers, non-bargaining unit 7 staff, and the most important group to NTEU Chapter 208, our bargaining unit 8 employees. You are truly the agency's greatest asset and you are the reason 9 the NRC is the best nuclear regulator on the planet.
10 So, how are you doing? My goodness, you all, what a 11 difference a year makes. Last year, as I was reflecting on the year and 12 preparing the union comments for the December 2019 all employees meeting, 13 I was thinking that the worst thing that we would be faced with, during my 14 tenure certainly, was the potential reduction in force, which we narrowly 15 avoided two years prior to that meeting.
16 As a follow up to that very stressful experience, NTEU 17 followed every employee that was impacted, and last November, we fought 18 for the last employee who requested our help by assuring that this employee 19 who had taken one for the team and accepted a position at a lower grade got 20 their position back at the employee's original grade before the two-year time 21 frame ran out when their salary would be permanently reduced to the lower 22 grade.
23 So, although most employees breathed a collective sigh of 24 relief when no employee was separated from the agency that didn't want to 25 leave, NTEU followed through and fought for the employees we represent for 26 years after many employees may have forgotten it even happened.
66 1 Such will be the case with our experience with COVID-19, 2 although unlike the narrowly avoided RIF, no one living through this will ever 3 forget the experience.
4 Our world will never be the same. Our agency will never 5 be the same, but NTEU will fight for our employees who have been and will 6 continue to be impacted by this pandemic for as long as is necessary.
7 As I address you today, I am very proud to be an NRC 8 employee, and I'm also very proud to be associated with NTEU. In early 9 March of 2020, before the NRC sent our employees home in the mandatory 10 telework phase of our COVID-19 response, Tony Reardon, the President of 11 NTEU National suggested that all federal agencies with more than 50 12 employees send all of their employees home to telework.
13 Although the NRC quickly rallied up and eventually, in my 14 opinion, became the gold standard for how a government agency should 15 handle a pandemic, and I don't say that in a vacuum. I've been 16 communicating with leaders from other NTEU chapters at other federal 17 agencies. Still, some managers and some regions were slower to get the 18 memo than others.
19 It's hard to believe that we considered even for a minute not 20 cancelling the Regulatory Information Conference, and we struggled in the 21 beginning when some employees with preexisting conditions requested going 22 home to telework full time until the situation was resolved and their managers 23 were not initially moved by their concerns.
24 A manager at a region criticized a resident for suggesting a 25 regional employee who was planning to go on site simply to observe a process 26 and was not required to be there might want to be cautious and stay back at
67 1 the hotel.
2 In all of these cases, the managers corrected their mistakes.
3 We should not be quick to judge anyone who may have underestimated the 4 gravity of the situation early on, and hindsight, as they say, is 20/20.
5 But, and this is an extremely important but, when the 6 COVID-19 task force assured us that after we were sent home to telework, 7 that no employee that was currently working at home full time would be forced 8 back into any NRC building for any reason if they didn't feel safe, they have 9 been true to their promise.
10 We are not just saying that the safety of our employees is 11 our paramount concern. We are walking the walk, and we're not just 12 concerned about our employees' safety.
13 I'm always happy when employees report things like their 14 supervisor has agreed to allow the flexible 24/6 work schedule and full-time 15 telework to continue as long as their elementary school-age children are not 16 back in school. This is encouraging.
17 Obviously, we cannot be aware of every employee that's 18 having concerns, but when employees have identified individual issues to 19 NTEU, we have been able to come to a resolution that was satisfactory to the 20 employee in every case without exceptions.
21 Still, even with an extremely flexible and benevolent agency, 22 I've observed in the past few weeks that many of our employees are 23 experiencing a lot of stress and anxiety to the uncertainty of the current 24 pandemic and general state of the country.
25 This is not the exception for the employees who reach out 26 to me. This is the rule. I honestly didn't see this coming. I thought we were
68 1 largely an agency of dorks who would do much better than other agencies.
2 I have a t-shirt that says, "I like wine and about three 3 people," and I thought the majority of our employees were in this camp. I was 4 wrong.
5 The fact that we are knee-deep into appraisal season and it 6 appears that last year's half-finished attempt at re-baselining may be finished 7 this year doesn't help, but it seems more than this.
8 This is dragging on too long. Employees are discouraged 9 that their holiday plans will not be what they'd hoped. They don't know when 10 things will get back to anywhere near normal.
11 I read that a psychologist has even coined a term for the 12 stress and anxiety over the extreme polarization and stress over the upcoming 13 election, ESD, or election stress disorder.
14 NRC employees are extremely capable and resourceful, but 15 for some of our employees, the cumulative effect of, well, everything is just 16 too much. Some of the most capable people I know are having meltdowns, 17 crying in their cars or showers, and having extreme anxiety.
18 If you're one of these employees, please reach out to 19 someone. NTEU is here for you. We also have an amazing employee 20 assistance program, or EAP, and all services can be obtained virtually. We 21 are all in this together and we will get through it together.
22 In the meantime, please take care of yourselves and your 23 families, and please be kind, kinder than you think is necessary, kinder than 24 you think the person you are dealing with deserves, especially if they may not 25 be acting so kind. Everyone is dealing with different things and they may be 26 doing their best just to get through the day.
69 1 We will be stronger as an agency when we come out of this 2 together, and we will. Don't hesitate to reach out to NTEU if you have any 3 questions or concerns, or if you would like our assistance. Thank you so 4 much for your attention, and please vote. Thank you.
5 CHAIRMAN SVINICKI: Thank you very much, Sheryl, and 6 -- I think you need to mute there. Thank you very much. So, thank you for 7 those remarks on behalf of NTEU, and I want to thank all of the NRC staff 8 again, and for all of the wonderful questions that were submitted.
9 Thank you all. And with that, we are adjourned.
10 (Whereupon, the above-entitled matter went off the record 11 at 2:59 p.m.)