ML20238F527
| ML20238F527 | |
| Person / Time | |
|---|---|
| Site: | Indian Point  |
| Issue date: | 05/20/1998 |
| From: | NRC |
| To: | |
| Shared Package | |
| ML20238F518 | List: |
| References | |
| FOIA-98-261 NUDOCS 9809030428 | |
| Download: ML20238F527 (46) | |
Text
__ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ - _ - _ _ _ _ _ - _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
UNITED S'IATES NUCLEAR REGULATORY COMMISSION REGION 1 In re:
JAROMIR STIPEK An Enforcement Conference was held befo.re Loretta B.
Devery, Registered Professional Reporter and Notary Public, at the offices of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission, Region 1,
475 Allendale Road, King of Prussia, Pennsylvania, on Wednesday, May 20, 1998, commencing at 1:00 P.M PRESENT:
CHARLES W.
HEHL JOHN ROGGE J.
BRADLEY FEWELL, ESO.
.TRACY WALKER RICHARD BARKLEY JAROMIR STIPEK l r,;;. cab
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7 ALL POINTS REPORTING 723 Erlen Road Norristown, PA 19401
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(610) 272-6731 9809030428 980826 F
ALL POINTS REPORTING
. ( 610 ) 272-6731 1
(-
G1co96304 2
2-1 2
MR. HEHL:
Mr. Stipek, we're certainly 3
glad we could finally get together.
As you know-4 from our: letter.that we sent you inviting you to 5-this conference, really the purpose of this 6
conference is to just gain information.
This is not 7
a court of law, this is not a hearing, formal 8
hearing process.
It's really just to get a better
-9 appreciation -- get your side of the story.
10-As you probably know, we conducted an 11 investigation through our Office of Investigations 12 subsequent to the licensee investigation of issues 13 associated with performance of surveillance tests on 14 August 8th of 1997, 15 MR. STIPEK:
Excuse me, sir, I 16
~ apologize,.can I please ask you a little bit more 17
' loud?-
18 MR. HEHL:
Oh, okay.
19-MR. STIPEK:
Okay, my ears are shot a 20 little bit.
Thank you.
Sorry about that.
21 MR. HEHL:
That's fine.
The reason 22 we're.here is really to discuss the August 8th of 23 1997 incident in which, based on our investigation 24 and the licensee's, Coned, investigation that was ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731 Y____ _- _ _ _
2
-1 done, it appears that records were generated that 2
inaccurately reflected performance of a surveillance 3
test on emergency batteries; and also a subsequent 4
determination'of a surveillance associated with the 5
emergency diesel generator air compressor switch and 6
valve.
7 As you probably know -- I think I'm 8
sure we invited you to attend if you so desired 9
but we did have an enforcement conference with 10-ConEdison, the folks fron Indian Point 2,
to talk l'
11
-about the violation, because the violation involved, L
12 which is 10 CFR 50,9, for inaccurate records is 13 against their license.
And so we had a conference 14 with them to discuss the issues.
And subsequent to i
15 that, to kind of complete the cycle, we're having 16 this conference with you.
17 Before we get started, let me go ahead l
18
-and let everybody introduce themselves I guess to 19 begin with, and then we'll talk a little bit about l
the process we're going through, and then we'll get l
20 21 into further discur 22 I'm Bill Hehl.
I'm the Director of 23 Reactor Projects here.
I have the resident 24 inspector program across the northeast here.
ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
+4 l
1 MR. ROGGE:
I'm John Rogge.
I work i
2' directly for him;. and I supervise the resident 3
inspectors that are at IP-2 and the ones who 4
identified that the batteries were not being
.5 maintained properly.
6-MR. FEWELL:
I'm Brad Fewell.
I'm-tne
- 7 Regional Counsel f or NRC's Regiori 1 office.
And I 8
provide the legal advice to'the Region 1 staff.
9 MS. WALKER:
I'm Tracy Walker.
I'm an 10 Enforcement Specialist in Region 1.
So I'm responsible for working through-the enforcement 11 12 process and any action that we would take.
13 MR. BARKLEY:
And I'm Richard Barkley, 14 the project engineer for John Rogge, so I work in 15
.the Region 1 office and also deal with the resident l
16 inspectors.
I 1-7 MR. HEHL:
We understand that you do 18
.have an attorney and your attorney couldn't be 191 present today.
We are transcribing this because 20 that's part of this process we go through, 21.
particularly when we have discussions with an
- 22 individual.
A record of that transcription can be 23 made available to you and your attorney; however, if i
)
24 you do request that, then what we typically do is ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
5 1
that goes into the public docket for Indian Point 2 2
and becomes part of the public record.
So it's a 3
decision that you or your attorney need to make with 4
regard to whether or not you want a copy of this 5
transcript.
6 I would say that, you know, some people 7
who we have in here for discussions, not all of them 8
have attorneys with them.
Some do, some don't.
I'm 9
not sure whether from our standpoint, our decision 10 standpoint, it really doesn't make a whole lot of 11 difference.
And as we explained to your attorney 12 before you came in here, at this point in time, we 13 don't anticipate any kind of monetary fine or any --
14 and we've already addressed with the Department of 15 Justice any interest on their part for criminal 16 prosecution, and that at this point in time has 17 not -- they have declined to pursue any of that.
So 18 we're strictly in a civil type of situation here.
19 Tracy?
Go ahead, sure.
20 MR. STIPEK-If I -- to have some 21 perspective and for myself and hopefully peace, I 22 will be not charged for some criminal --
23 MS. WALKER:
That's correct 24 MR. STIPEK I will be not or I will ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
6 1
be?
2 MR. BARKLEY:
You will nut.
3 MR. STIPEK:
First, thank you.
4 MR. HEHL:
Tracy will go ahead and just 5
briefly' discuss what are -- what is the process for
-6 going through here.
7 MR. STIPEK:
Mandatory fine?
8 MS. WALKER:
No, there is no mandatory 9
fine.
And the way our enforcement' process works, as 10 Bill said, it's a civil process, okay.
So there are 11 no criminal aspects to it.
If there was going to be 12 criminal action, that would be the Department of
-13 Justice.
They've already told us that at this 14.
stage, they have no interest.
They have declined 15 interest in this case.
Okay?
So it's a purely 16 civil case.
.17 The way the enforcement policy works is 18 we have several options available to us with respect 19 to individuals, okay.
Licensees, it's different.
-20 But you're just an individual, okay, you're not a 21 licensee.
With respect to that, we have a couple j
22 things we can do, ar.d it all depends on the severity 23 of whatever happened.
24 One thing we can do is just issue a ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
7 1-letter, could be considered like a letter of 2
reprimand, which would be just, you know, basically 3
saying you did this thing wrong and puts it out 4
there for the record that this was done wrong.
5 That's the least significant.
6-The next action would be what we call a 7
notice of violation, okay.
What that is, it's like 8
a ticket.
It says here's this requirement that we 9
have in this case, the requirement that we're 10 talking about.
And when we talk about individuals, 11 we have a requirement that says any individual who
.12 is the employee of a licensee or a contractor for a l
'13-licensee, that type, cannot take actions f
l 14-deliberately t:iat would put the licensee in l
15 violation of a requirement.
l 16 MR. STIPEK:
I didn't.
17 MS, WALKER:
Well, that's what we're 18 here to talk about today.
19 MR. STIPEK:
I'm sorry.
20 MS. WALKER:
This is how the process 21 works, okay:
If we find that some deliberate 22 actions put the licensee in violation, then we can 23 take action against an individual for that.
And we 24 call -- one thing we can do is what we call a notice ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
')
I
8 1
of violation, okay, which, as we said, is like a 2
ticket.
It's basically just a document that says 3
here's the requirement and here's what was done to 4
violate that requirement.
We do have available to 5
us the option for civil penalties, monetary fines, 6
if you will.
However, our policy says that we wou.'.d 7
not normally issue a fine to a non-licensed 8
individual, okay.
So somebody who is not -- when we 9
say non-licensed individuals --
10.
MR. STIPEK:
Thank you.
11 MS. WALKER:
-- we talk about --
12 MR. STIPEK:
I was just struggling with 13 that.
i 14 MS. WALKER:
That's our policy.
It 15 would have to be a real extreme case if we were 16 going to invoke that.
The other option available to I
17 us, and again this is what we consider the most 18 significant option, would be an order which would l
19 basically put a requirement on you so that you could 20 not work in NRC licensed activities for a period of 21 time.
But again, that's what we consider the most 22 significant act 4 Ln.
And we would reserve those type i
23 of things for the most egregious type violations, 24 okay.
l ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731 L
9 1
How about if I explain a little bit --
2 MR. STIPEK:
I am willing to take 10 3
lashes over my back.
4-MS. WALKER:
That's-not one of our 5
options.
6 MR. STIPEK:
I don't want this put in 7
light, but I was very worried because never happened 8
in my life.
I don't know where to go.
Thank you 9
very much.
10
-MS.
WALKER:
Let me --
11 MR. STIPEK:
I will be sincere.
12 MS. WALKER:
Let me tell-you a little 13 bit about how we work through the process so you 14 understand where we are and where we go from here.
15 As you're aware, we did an 16 investigation, and that's where our whole process 17 starts.
We find something thatLlooks like it might 18 be a-violation of our requirements.
We do our l
19 investigation.
At that point, when we have what we l
l 20 call an apparent violation, it's not finalized yet, l
21 it hasn't been decided on, we call it an apparent 22 violation.
At that point, if we see that it's 23 something of a higher significance level, we have 24 various what we call severity levels.
And if it ALL POINTS. REPORTING (610) 272-6731
10 1
rises to one of those upper severity levels, we 2
would normally have an enforcement conference, and L
3 that's what we're here today having.
4 It's called a predecisional enforcement 5
conference.
And the key word there is t
6 "predecisional."
It's part of our process before we 7
make a final decision.on what action we're going to 8
take, and that's what we had with the licensee 9
several weeks ago, with Indian Point 2 a couple 10 weeks ago.
We had a predecisional enforcement 11 conference to get their side of the story.
12 We've now, you know, we've gone through 13 our investigation, we've given them the information, 14 here's how we see it as to what happened.
But now 15 here's your opportunity to come in and tell us your 16 side of the story.
And that's what we're here today 17 to do with you.
18 We've done an investigation, you've had 19 some interactions with our investigators, but we i
20 still want this, you know, now we've put it out on I
21 paper, we think this was a violation, we want to
\\
22 hear-your side of the story.
Okay?
23 MR. STIPEK-Thank you.
24 MS. WALKER:
Based on what, you know, ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
11 1
everything.that we've found up to this point, what 2
-goes on today,.then we'll go back and we'll make a 3
decision on what the appropriate action, if any, is 4
to be taken both for the licensee and for yourself.
5 That process again is a fairly delibe' rate process.
6 We go through -- and those of us who 7
are here today as well as others who are not here, 8
our headquarters Office of Enforcement, etc., will 9
be involved in the decision to'make sure that we l
I
~So we go through that 10 make the right decision i
11 process and then we aim for about 30 days or so to 12 try and get-that answer out.
I can't give you an I
.13 exact date.when we'll have the answer, but we will l
14 le, you know.
15 MR. HEPL:
Once we issue whatever we 3
16 issue, if it involves some sort of like a notice of
~17 violation to you, at that time you would typically 18 be asked to provide a response.
You have an 19 opportunity to respond to it in writing if you so 20 desired.
21 MR. STIPEK:
Do I have to respond with 22 writing?
23 MR. HEHL:
No.
24 MS. WALKER:
You do not have to ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
12 1-respond.
It would be -- again, it's if we went with 2
something' formal like a notice of violation, the 3
notice of violation would request a response.
But 4
as an individual -- and Brad,-you might want to 5
correct me if I'm wrong here -- we wouldn't take any 6
action against you for not responding.
We would 7
probably ask you to respond and indicate that we 8-expected a' response, but nothing would happen if you l
9 didn't respond.
l L
10 Now, licensees, on the other hand, if i
j 11 we send them a notice of violation, there's 12 requirements on them that they. respond.
It's not 13 likely we would go after you for not responding on 14 something like that, j
15 MR. HEHL:
And if you disagreed with 16 where we came out, you would have an opportunity.
i 17 MS. WALKER:
The reason for the 18-response is asking you, okay, now we've taken this 19
. action, do.you agree or disagree, and, you know, 20 what are you going to do to prevent it from
~ 21 happening again or those type of thingc is what 22 we're'looking for.
23 The other thing that you should be i
-24 aware of is if we do take an action such as a notice ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
13 1
of violation or an order, you would also have 2
hearing rights, okayo You would have the right to appeal those decisions.
And all that information 4
would be spelled out to you if we were to take an 5
action like that Okay?
6 MR. STIPEE:
Okay.
I will take any --
amll almost, I work in power plant, !
7 first, I 8
have tc make this statement, for actually for 4.
9 years.
I never ran int something like this.
40 10 years is a Ict cf years, I am very, very sorry I 11 caused this trouble.
I wish it would not happen, 12 but I can assure you that because I just in my life 13 I just dcr't lie.
And you don't know me, so please, 24 whatever you ask ne, if I don't know exactly what it 15 is, possibly it will werk against me, but I will say 16 I don't know, I don't remember, and I mean it.
17 How much I can say, because I want to 18 serve my conscience, nct just be happy to leave and pretty proud 19 not be f inancially pu:. shed.
And I was ounish me a little 20 of what I was doing 4: years.
21 bit.
Safety valve, that's why I have to look on you 22 to read fcur 1;ps, because ;f a safety valve I will 23 stand b) and it b i o.-
cn you.
So forgive me, I'm not l
24 staring at you.
- hace to say that, okay?
I l
l
,.m 1
And sc f you please, before I will 2
leave this room, if you will give me punishment so I 3
will know where I stand.
I will agree, nothing else 4
will help me anyway, because so I can peacefully 5
leave 6
Whatever punishment it will be.
If y 7
do, I will understand.
Because it's hanging over me 8
half a year and it's taking kind of toll 9
I was scared to death or whatever I 10 was.
There's no question about it And half a year 11 1s really tough, pretty few nights you are
- I will 12 be happy if you will do that.
13 MR.
FEWELL:
Understana, unfortunately 14 we won't be able to do that today 15 MR STIPEK Okay l
16 MR.
FEWELL:
We will commit to you to
{
17 do this as expeditiously as possible, as quickly as 18 possible.
I 19 MR. STIPEK:
I will be not home, so 20 it's all right?
I don't have to wait home?
21 MS. WALKER-Oh, no p=v:Lr..
as.
. o.
.r. r.
u 23 MR STIPEE Eecause I wtll be j
4 1
24 traveling.
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15
'l MR. FEWELL:
No.
Just to reiterate 2 ~
what ~ Tracy said to you, make you feel a little bit 3
better about this, there will be no criminal 4
prosecution or criminal aspects on this particular 5
matter.
That is not possible at this point.
6 MR. STIPEK:
Okay.
l 7
MR. FEWELL:
The only possibility of a 8-criminal matter coming out of this would be if you 9
lied during this proceeding or during any other 10 proceeding involving the NRC.
That's the only way 11' that this particular matter could get thrown back 12 into criminal.
13' MR. STIPEK:
I have no intention of 14 that.
15 MR. FEWELL:
And.no one is suggesting 16 that'at'all.
One other thing that I would like to l
17 emphasize, just so you know where we're coming from, 18 right now, based on all this stuff, we're viewing l
19-this as a deliberate violation on_your part.
And.I 20 think I understood you to say that it was not 21 deliberate.
So.that will be very -- We are viewing 22 it as a deliberate violat-ion.
23 MR. STIPEK:
Which means willfully?
-24 MR. FEWELL:
Yes.
Now I heard you say ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
i 16 1
no, that's not the case.
2 MR. STIPEK-Never in my life.
And I 3
work any place and to -- I mean for all my life, 4
never.
And to think about that I would do something i
5 wrong, this is all no, absolutely not.
6 MR. FEWELL:
And that's what we're 7
going to discuss today.
8 MR. STIPEK:
9 M
w g
2 13 14 15 16 17 MR. HEHL:
No, that's fine.
And that's 18 why we're here.
We're here to exchange information 19 and understand better what your side of the story 20 is.
I guess you were employed at the Indian Point 2 21 Station I guess from 1990
- 1980?
22 MR. STIPEE 1980.
23 MR. HEHL:
To 1997.
And I guess during 24 that time, you had the opportunity to work in the
17 l
1
- Test. Division for some period.of time?
.2 MR. STIPEK:
Which division?
3 MR. HEHL:
Test Division.
l 4
MR. STIPEK:
Yeah, last six years, L
5 before I was NPO.
6-MR. HEHL:
And I guess our L
7 understanding'is that you performed many times this
- 8 emergency battery test?
9 MR. STIPEK:
That's correct.
l 10 MR. HEHL:
I guess, could'you maybe 11 just, in your own words, talk a little bit about how
'12
.you performed this test?
-13 MR. STIPEK Yes, gladly Can I also 14 make, then I will explain how it was done, how we 15' were doing?
- 16 MR. HEHL:
However you want.
17' MR. STIPEK:
Can I make one little
'18 suggestion, because if they will not change, it will
-19 happen again to somebody.
And I will try to show I
20-how it really could happen And'I'was some 21
' people cal 1: me. picky, picky.
I thought never will 22'
. happen to me something like this, never.
Because j
23 picky man should pick up something like that, and I q
24
_. d i d n ' t.
i
)
I
['
ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731 i
..i
16 1
So what we were doing before that test, 1
2 first I was like, you know, NPO, and I went even --
l l
3 I mean reactor operating class, I verbally did it 4
and actually they were telling me very well.
5 Reading, because I never went to English school, 6
when we immigrated over here from Czechoslovakia,lhD.
7 8
They tried, but they know I 9
couldn't make it.
If whatever I was able to hear, 10 fine.
So I was happy what I was because kind for me 11 it was good achievement from where I came from, 12 small pcwer plant
_r Czechoslovakia.
I was very 13 proud about it.
14 And I would like to mention also that 15 during that period, I -- so you can make maybe 16 different look at me now is clean, but that day 17 first, first two years RHR cells, few times we were 18 standing i.n three, four inches water and we were 19 fixing, not only me, NPCs and rovers.
To expect 20 from me and anybody else over there that we would 21 just neglect something after all these years, it's 22 like ;f you used to drive car right way and suddenly 23 you w_1.
ruir that ra:
No, it's just nct that's 24 cna little fo not only for me but for everybody l
I
- t 19 1
But we used to do that test, test was 2
assigned, brought to me.
I did have partner, his 3
name was Gus Laverda, I was doing for me monkey job, 4
forgive-the expression, and he was doing' paperwork.
5 He'was -- before retirement, I was doing climbing-6 and this and that and we were going page by page, 7
two people.
When something went wrong, we didn't 8
have to go on that particular test battery by 9
battery, but we were even going section by section.
10 Now, after whatever intention was, we
-11 were told it is for~ economic reason, about five, six 12 years back, I'm talking about now they started to do 13 these tests not two people.
It was kind of like, 14 forgive me, maybe not perfect, you know, 15 explanation, but like pick up, we were doing SIS 16 pump and for some reason nothing was this afternoon 17 or maybe RHR pump was due for next, so they give us 18 okay, do these two pages.
That was fine when same 19 people were continuing, but that was to be tricky 20 when -- and I understood why they.were doing, we
-21 even-didn't ask them because for them it was like l
- 22 using us the most effective way, and they said 23 that's okay.
So we went along.
I didn't see any 24
. violation.
ALL-POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
20 1
But as it came out, okay, so over here 2
we'll do John and Jerry, okay.
I suppose to 3
continue tomorrow, but we have to wait a couple 4
days.
And suddenly they no -- for example, Paul 5
Speeling, he is much more better in some detail in 6
some other power plant, so they say Paul, take this, 7
okay, and you or some other guys continue with that 8
second page.
That already, when it started, Gus 9
Laverda, he retired now, he say no, he don't want to 10 do that, he don't want to sign.
11 MR. BARKLEY:
Refused to sign?
12 MR. STIPEK:
Refused, he refused.
13 Thanks.
Refused signature, because he didn't have 14 also that time about five years before retirement, 15 because he was saying no, no, no, no, I wasn't doing 16 it, not only with Jerry, not only me and him.
Also 17 even another couple guys was -- we were kind of for 18 first couple months, it was too much.
We were i
19 saying wait a minute, this is now really going to --
I' 20 what was that over here, because you were losing 21 control, that's a fact.
That's true.
5 22 But after they saw that problem, they 23 solved that problem, I think like re-signing, like 24 when we were continuing over here and signature was j
ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
l 21 1
down say January 1st and somebody was continuing, so 2
we re-sign again, but by, you know, in control room, 3
but that final signature still was only one.
Worst 4
part came when this happened, I will not do that on r
5 that paper.
6 MR. HEHL:
Now, our understanding is 7
that on August 8th, with regard to the emergency 8
lighting test that was done in the primary / auxiliary 9
building, that that test was initiated on August 10 8th, that the SROs in the control room and the shift 11 supervisor gave the authorization to start the test 12 and it started on the 8th.
13 MR. STIPEK:
Right.
14 MR. HEHL:
And you completed it on the 15 8th.
16 MR. STIPEK:
Many times, many times it 17 happened.
For example, I would like to explain i
18 this.
I don't know, I don't know, I don't really 19 honestly remember if it was done, but I would like 20 to. bring the cases which was working against.
21 Unfortunately, don't ask me because I was I guess q
22 lazy before retirement. I was holding paper, I 1
23 thought I would have something nice for me and I 24 didn't.
But sometime we were signing papers day l
1 i.
I ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
l l
22 1
ahead.
We did, for example, day ahead we signed.
2 We start test and we stop.
So we did part and we 3
re-sign again and re-issue paper again.
Only 4
problem was that many times these papers, they were 5
not current.
That's another thing, we were not 6
current in contaminated area, they were copies.
It L
7 happened to me before.
I don't know if it was that 8
case, it happened to me before that.
l 9
MR. HEHL:
So you would take a copy of 10 the procedure with you?
I 11 MR. STIPEK:
Right.
12-MR. HEHL:
And then if it got
(
13 contaminated --
14 MR. STIPEK:
Sometime even part.
15 MR. HEHL:
Then the original one you 16 would fill it in when you got outside the 17 contaminated area.
18 MR. STIPEK:
Or just part with that 19 signature.
I just try to bring -- I only can say L
20 this, most -- if I will do -- I believe, I believe 21 in this, if I will do not too many signatures, l
l 22 because just paperwork, because I most probably 23 remember what happened that one day or two days.
24 But I was signing, we fill position, fire positions, i
ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
l l
l 23 1
this position, battery, all over this position.
And 2
some cases, I would say honestly maybe half now, as 3
it was done just on work, Jerry, I did page 6.
I 4
Everything all right.
Yes.
5 And that was even our -- and nobody was 6
concerned it was violation, because control room 7
did -- we asked for -- we were not even considering 8
that because one partner was over there and he said, 9
oh, Jerry, he said okay, you guys split this for 10 two, two, four people or six.
And so we did parts 11 and I was signing.
And I didn't see that, I didn't 12 see that.
13 So I was -- I blame myself for one l
that's what I very 14 thing, definitely, that's my 15 much regret.
I'm sorry if I caused trouble for guys 16 and I am out, that I wasn't more -- they still got 17 to be there -- that I wasn't more following what's 18 not just put, like almost stupid automatic l
19 signature.
Because you are collecting hundreds and 20 hundreds of documents.
That's what I feel guilty 21 because I should ask more, I should, as it used to l
22 be, and it's supposed to be.
And I'm sorry, that 23 was my wrong, no question about it.
24 But, but I was there 15 minutes.
One ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
24 I
1 logic, just'one logic, these batteries, that's just I
. 2 one logic.
These batteries are all over the place, 3
I don't,know,.40, 50, another-place 50.
And I am j
4 previous NPO, and whoever go with me, he doesn't 5
have to be qualified even.
Bob, for example,'that's 6
not a question, but -- 'and:we know that on property-7 and in power plant, we have, because it's outage, we 8
have three, two, four NRC, and sometime you walk 9
right' away and that battery, you see that level, 10 that must be kind of, forgive me, stupidity if I
'1 1 would~have signed.
I could be' caught next 50 12 minutes.
That's not -- that's not -- even my 13 grandkid wouldn't do that.
14 MR. HEHL:
So what is the explanation I 15 guess then if, you know, according to the record 16 that exists on August Sch, you signed I guess for 17 the-fact that there were 33 batteries in this area 18 that were tested and that was accomplished.
You 19 know, I-guess what's the explanation then?
p 20 MR. STIPEK:
I have only one --
l 21 actually three explanations.
My mind, it will be 22 completely out of order, which I do not recollect, 23
-because it's like self-suicide if you will be over 24 there and it's out.
How I get that information ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
25 1
from -- it was done one hundred times over that I 2
saw or somebody told me I saw this and I mark it 3
down.
4 About that switch diesel generator, I 5
was even dreaming about to explain what I saw in my 6
dream.
But I call when I was already home, I was 7
home for four or five months, I said, my God, I will 8
call CASS.
CASS is room where --
9 MR. HEHL:
Central alarm station 10 security?
11 MR. STIPEK:
Right.
Sometime with that 12 badge, and it happened to me many, many times 13 directly through the years, you know, stick in and L14 it wouldn't let you go in, will let you know, I mean 15 would let go your partner.
.So you have to wait for 16 guard and he will come and he ask you for number.
17 And you say okay.
They know you so many years, but, q
)
18 you know, they say okay, what is your number.
They l
19 check in book.
If in that book is you still are 20 000111, he'll call CASS, let them know, okay, over I.
L 21 here is Jerry, he is going for whatever, check that I
l 22 switch, he will be there for to check that switch is 23 30 seconds.
O h., well, just walk back behind, see 24 switch and go.back and let you go in.
ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731 L._-
26 1
So I thought -- I didn't know that -- I l
2 thought that maybe they make record in CASS under 3
phone calls, but they didn't.
I called -- I didn't 4.
do anything at first.
What I did is I asked if it's 5
all right to go there, and I also talk at that time 6
with my union representative.
He said well, I will 7
check for you too, he said.
But I called.
I said 8
look, this is because they know that I was kicked i
9 out so, no, no record.
So I'm over here against 10 it's a computer now.
11 MR. HEHL:
Well, is it your contention l
12 then, your understanding, that you went to the door 13 and you couldn't get in and you had to call a guard 14 or --
15 MR. STIPEK:
No, no, no, I'm not saying l
16 it happened that day, sir.
But it happened many 17 times.
No.
Because if --
l 18' MR. HEHL:
Do you recall what happened 19 that day?
20 MR. STIPEK:
No.
This happened many 21 times, but I don't know if it happened that 22 particular day. ~But I asked them to check that 23 particular day if they have any.
24 MR. HEHL:
But that day, did you go r
ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
27 1
into~the diesel generator building to check the 2
compressor switch or the position of the valve?
3 MR. STIPEK:
I don't know, sir.
'4 Because if I will say -- if I will say possibly.yes, 5
.I will be guessing'.
I cannot guess.
Only logic, 6
only logic, which I -- you do two checkings, one is l
7 in firehouse, another one is over here.
If you do 8
one, you go, like if you do something 100 times, you 9
just starting to do the both.
I cannot see nobody 10 not will just check one and not check another one, 11 it's just --
12 Sometimes it happened -- I not remember
[
13 if it that day -- somet'ime it happen that that 14 particular diesel generator building, sometimes'they 15 got rope because sometimes just some nuclear stuff 16 onsite, you are not ready because you didn't know l
17 that, you do not have the nuclear badge, so you have 18 to go back again.
19 But one more logic I would like to 20 bring because nothing else will help me, I know 21 that, nothing else.
When I came from vacation and i
22' Frank called me and asked me, you know, did you 23 start, did you have any problem, we were talking 24 like if we are talking about, I don't know, a
ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
l 28 1
something absolutely normal.
I didn't suspect 2
anything.
I didn't even -- if I would have suspect 3
it is that much, I hope that man trust me.
I hope i
i 4
so.
One day I will talk with him about this as 5
peaceful man, because he was very disturbed.
He 6
have to punish me, I know that.
7 But if I will have any uneasy going 8
something that I knew that I mess up something one 9
way or another, and before they start to test these 10 batteries and any kind of -- and I did many times in 11 my life, I will lay it on table, Frank, look forgive 12 me, that switch, I mess up.
I will say different 13 even,. I will not go more and more no.
But now I i
14 know the difference, new people, but it ruined my 15 life and not just some stupid thing, this is -- this 16 is obvious it will be shortlived.
But I didn't have 17 any idea.
I was so confident that we did everything 18 right.
19 MR. HEHL:
That gets back to the 20 original question, and that is what is your 21 understanding -- when you go out to do this l
l 22 procedure, when you go out to do this surveillance l-23 test on the batteries, do you normally have a copy 24 of the procedure with you?
Do you go step by step ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
29 1
through the procedure?
Is that your practice, 2
normal practice?
3' MR. STIPEK:
Over here in particular 4
batteries,-in particular batteries, it was changing.
5 We did actually really step by step, we did step by l
l 6
step and step by step.
l t
7 MR. HEHL:
Is that always.the case I 8
mean?
9 MR. STIPEK:
Years, years.
When we 10 start to be more efficient, we say okay, let's c 3ck 11 on this battery first.
I know that was pretty wrong 12 Ehat we did, I guess because that took us -- I don't 13 know how it started, we started to use stick, stick 14 was going.
15 MR. HEHL:
The stick was used to what, 16 punch the light to the battery?
17 MR. STIPEK:
And shake battery and you 18 see level.
First you see level, before you push l19 once, you see_ level, you shake.
And after that, you 20 push, you hold.
And so you do one part and you 21 don't mark that, but you go back and check the 22 terminals, sometime terminals were checked like, but 7
23 this was still continuing.
Maybe we couldn't check 24 terminals because some scaffolding or whatever many ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
30 1
times happened.
Sometimes especially on --
2 MR. EEHL:
The ladder or scaffolding or 3
something like that?
4 MR. STIPEK:
We try to accomplish, 5-maybe not completely right, but at least to the 6
point that 53, whoever was there, 53, that batteries 7
are.really high.
Sometime we didn't even have 53.
8 I'm talking about generator..
And sometimes we have 9
to'go. third day after that.
So it was kind of like 10 broken apart, that sequence..
11 I didn't feel that bad much about that 12-because we.--
oh, you just try to -- sometime we 13 asked many times bring this battery'down, it's four 14 feet above ground.
And we will go, we were willing 15 te do this on our own avsrtime, fine, extra money, 16 but it's just wire and four bolts.
So sometime we 17 were climbing and we shouldn't climb.
I mean 18 climbing, we climb.
So we were breaking apart i
19 slowly and surely little bit, little bit, and Jerry 20 Stipek was signing paper that everything is all 21.
right.
That's my reason.
22 MR. HEHL:
So as I understand what you 23 said then, over a period of time, your familiarity 24 with doing the procedure, you eventually worked into l
ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
31 l'
La moreLefficient, I guess as you saw it, way of 2
doing some of the tests, using the stick for those-3 that were way up in the overhead that you had to do 4.
something, shaking it, hitting the light.
And then 5-I guess the idea is you'd come back and check the 6
. terminals at some point later on?
7 MR. STIPEK.
Right.
Because sometimes 8
it's very hard to get ladder.
In beginning, ladder 9
over there even wasn't because it was -- I don't 10 know what the rules the company was breaking with the' lad'er and the vibrations.
So finally they d
11 12 realized wait a minute, these guys need that ladder, 13.
it's not right to bring that ladder through 14 elevator, so finally we were using that ladder to do 15 one battery and another.
One we were kind of like 16 breaking, okay, this, this, this, and now let's do 17
-take~ ladder and we will do nothing else, just say 18 where ladder is.
And --
l 19 MR. HEHL:
How about supervision in the 20L field?
You had a supervisor that oversaw the 21 testing activities.
Were the supervisors out in the 22 field during your testing activities?
23 MR. STIPEK:
You mean my supervisor?
24 MR. HEHL:
Normally.
ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) '272-6731-
)
32 1-MR. BARKLEY: -Your supervisor.
2 MR. HEHL:
Did you normally see your 3
supervisor?
4 MR. STIPEK:
If you have any problem, 5
call the boss.
6 MR. HEHL:
But I mean would he come out 7
on his own?
8 MR. STIPEK:
He was busy.
I would be 9
unfair to him.
He was like between -- I'm not 10 saying that he would -- I'm not saying that he 11 would -- he couldn't do better, no, always you can 12 do better.
But if you are between, and he is 13 between, Jerry is between, he is between group to 14 finish and group that give job on him to finish.
So 15 he did have sometime very, very, very -- I wouldn't 16 like to be in his shoes.
We were, forgive me, I
17 cursing him because he was -- I mean because he was 18 first in'line, I couldn't go and yell at Frank, he l
19 would suspend me.
But if somebody -- no.
Jerry, he I
.20 wasn't best organizer, but again that will be maybe i
21 misjudgment even from anybody because the pressure 22 on him is high.
1 23 MR. HEHL:
But was he ever out in the 24 field watching you do battery tests, do you recall?
l
[
ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
2:
<s 1
MR. STIPEK Sometime yes, not all the 2
time, no.
For me, what works against me in that 3
battery test was that I kind of lean on that 4
paperwork.
I lean.
I grab it.
Reason?
Reason is, 5
one, because I did have, I guess one year ago, I did 6
have very bad accident.
7 i
I i
8 Z
e 10 Sig operation.
And Frank was asking me are you all 11 right.
Sure, I am Because my vision was survive, 12 do your best On top of that, so I 13 will be maybe better off, I will be not here if I 14 will be checking, but I was signing.
15 MR. HEHL:
As an NPO, I guess you 16 were -- you understand the importance of procedures 17 and following procedures?
18 MR STIPEK Yes.
19 MR. HEHL:
I mean you spent -- you were 20 trained as an NPO You obv;ously had to implement a 21 lot oi procedures.
22 MR STIPEK Not in beginning.
In 23 becinnina, NPC,
.cu n i c k u t. c.hcne and you tell them t
24 what'c acing c:
iou krew what's going on At this
E 34 1
b time, it wasn't so particular.
g Now i t's different.
completely 2
{
3 d
MR. HEHL:
Recently?
p 4
MR. STIPEK:
It was fix it in your best 5
conscience.
People were down and watch my lips 6
and any kind of screaming and nobody to help, because 7
really it was powder asbestos over our cheeks, we 8
were breathir." like snow and nobody ever
\\
l questioned 9
not to do best.
I'm an old timer, as I was 10 considering, and they must know that I didn't do l
11 this, because I'm just -- I don't know 12 exactly what happened, otherwise I will lay down exactly I
13 have --
14 l
15 16 So I couldn't i
get it to the 17 end.
It's bad, I have very bad feeling more as any 18 kind of punishment, believe me.
19 Financial punishment now will hurt 20 me yes, because ne question about it, but more as 21 letters any
\\
or anything ycu have, because if you leave l
22 I
that way pcwer plant, you don't feel i
too good, and 23 that's this whcle thing.
If I will know what I did 24 wrong, I will tell you I did it, or what happened.
.--......_..m.m_.
_w_
L t'
35 1-And I just --
I 2
MR. HEHL:
I guess when you started 3
doing.the battery surveillance tests years ago, was 4
there more rigor in what you did with the 5
procedures?
I mean -- and then as you came along, l
6 you know, it's like when you're driving, you come up 7
to the same corner every day and there's a stop sign L
8 and there's never any traffic, and sometimes you r.
9 sooner or later, you just start slowing down a 10 little. bit and not coming to a full stop.
I mean is
.11 that the situation here or is it familiarity with 1.2 the procedure?
Is that where you start taking, you I
13-know, shortcuts with the stick and things?
14
.MR. STIPEK:
Yeah.
Well, that 15 procedure-didn't -- the truth is that that procedure 16 didn't say anything about stick.
How we started I don't know.
If I will know, if I will know 17 if 18 that I'm sure it was me, I will tell you that was 19-me.
Because I am already out.
I will not blame 20-none of the guys, none of them, because I was --
21
.actually all these guys which are here now, I was 22 training.
I trained them.
I trained them from 23-
' scratch because I was like the senior for that.
24 And we have their respect now.
They ALL" POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
4 36 l'
a're better.
Because I was getting older and they 2
were still going fast, so the other man have to wait 3
for'me.
And: they are much more sharper.
But 4
beginning, no.
In beginning, T was pretty--- if l
r-5 they would say, Jerry, talk about them, I don't keep j
6 against them because I am out and they still have to I
L 7
work over there.
They have to watch themselves.
l l
8 That's. big-difference.
That's whatever you say l:
t'
'9' okay.
I don't hear that much, but they still have I
10 to be there.
11--
So if they will say no, that's Jerry, I i
12 take that punishment because I was already punished 13 how many times, I still have to be punished, okay, i
14
- fine, 15 MR. BARKLEY:
When you did this 16 procedure, you talked about breaking it up into
.17 pieces, some people did parts, other people did 18 other parts to try to get it together.
Did you also
- 19 make sure in the course of doing the parts that you 20.
did everything to each light that you were supposed 21 to?
For instance, did you go back and check the 22 terminals on each and every light that you had?
l 23 MR. STIPEK:
If you do yourself, yes, 24 and I believe they do too.
Because we were working l
j.
I ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731 i
37 1-with each other.
Especially these lights, it's so 2
visible.
Nobody wants bring trouble with this 3
miserable lights on our group.
This is really --
4 this-is-almost unbelievable what came to.
5 So if I say 826 yes, 826 maybe' next.
6-day, but you don't mark that until you do that 7
particular step.
But now I heard -- I was talking 8
to, I don't know who it was now, I heard they did 9
one little step which is very important, whoever
-10 check is that particular battery, they put signature 11' on. side That would be helpful.
My God,'I would lxt 12 not here because each person is responsible for 13 number of that battery..
And I can tell you that was 14 on my actually request. to do that I asked Frank, and 15 they started to do it it.
Because this way you 16 really not signing for.
17.
Now, if I can say one more little thing 18 before I forget, they.are smarter, but over here is 19 one day, that's where they shoot this.
Over here is 20 limit where the test supposed to be last day finish.
21L They will be considering I guess not anymore these 22 as'like pick up, don't give us the last couple days 23) and say got to be done.
That's like being 24 responsible.you for mish-mosh.
Give some middle.
l l
ALL.FOINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
7. -..
38 1
MR. HEHL:
Did that happen often where 2
you felt like you didn't have sufficient time to l
-3
' complete?- MR STIPEK:
Sure.
We didn't see l
5 nothing wrong'with that becauseLit was really in l
6 back of our mind, yeah, it is back up, it's'not p
7 anymore.you got it, you finish.
But after, and now j
'8 also, I would -- I don't know if you can do that or
.9 they will do that.
Say of course we cannot work 10 just on' day, say particular test, and if that 11 miserable battery will be not down because plant-was immediately have to check l
12 down yesterday, but we 13 some say RHR running, okay, big dea 3, don't make put 14 for another couple weeks, don't make big issue from, 15 you know.
l 16 MR. HEHL:
Battery surveillance, sure.
.17 MR. STIPEK:
And it is issue.
I don't t
18 know if it is issue now, but it is issue.
And 19 because they have to write some letter, I don't know
- 20 these details, but they have to write some letter, t was.
And oh, my God, and everybody see 21 okay, wt 4
!L 9
22 right away,
.,4 C come in and, okay, we did that, 23 yeah.
Now they will jump on Jerry and say okay, why
{
. 24 didn't you give them over here.
Maybe it was ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731 L_-___________-________
39
.1
-something'else.
He is just fill man between.
He 2
just tried to --
.3 MR. HEHL:
So you don't -- you didn't 4
feel-a sense of accountability for the procedure
~
'5 because it was split up into. pieces?
6 MR. STIPEK:
Yeah.
It's in beginning 7
we wasn't.
8 MR. HEHL: -You had the whole test?
9 MR. STIPEK:
Right.
In beginning, when 10 it started, we~ make copies, we make copies say, 11 Lexample, one page, one man, another page, another 12 man.
And you collate the copies.
And you have over 13-here copies'.
Well, yeah, am I that perfect that I 14 didn't~ mess up the copies, I don't know.
Maybe I
15.
don't want-to say maybe -- but all these little 16 things will have copies.
Breaking partners, you 17.
don't know who signed out and it's adding that this 18 can happen, no, because it just absolutely, 19 absolutely almost ridiculous that somebody can think 20 not only about me but about anybody of them over L
21 there that they will leave battery half empty and 22 see that Mr. Barkley walk in and say I don't believe l
23 they can't see that, my God.
24 Something must have happened.
I wish I L
'ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
40 1
can explain.
I don't.
I have no -- I tried to 2'
search for that switch, I hoped that save me.
I 3
have like feeling that maybe it-was rope, I had to 4
go back, or maybe badge.
So I call CASS and they 5
say Jerry, sorry, it is not remark because we don't 6
do that remark.
Boom, if they did, maybe, you know.
7 And another thing over here is just --
8 and now I'm not talking.about, you know, other guys, 9
because any little not pressure for time, but even 10 this can-disturb you, yea do some work and they say 11 okay, stop it, we got to do something else.
And I 12 can't tell, you name it, little things.
I wish I 13 would be perfect and say, okay, wait a minute, I 14 will copy everything.
Oh, wait a minute.
Sounds so 15 easy to transfer if you close door behind world, but l
16 I guess I don't know if that I did, I don't want to 17 guess.
18 But I definitely, definitely, that's --
l 19 I didn't lie to Frank, I'm not lying to you.
I l
'20 didn't sign that paper just for done and wasn't.
21 And I have computer against me, yes, I cannot find, 22 I wish I have only little logic to bring you what 23 stupidity it would be to do that way.
If I will be 24 that stupid, I will not be in power plant f or 4 0 ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
41 1
years.
I would be kicked.out first, second, or 2
third year.
3 MR. HEHL:
But you don't recall exactly 4
what happened on August the 8th as far as during 5
that test?
6 MR. STIPEK:
If it will be one of many 7.
tests and maybe battery couple of months back, I 8
will do that, but that was -- I was considering 9
myself very. happy that actually I do that, because I 10 didn't have to climb.
I didn't have to hurt myself 11-before retirement.
I was'very happy.
So that's the E
12 reality.
13 And I was trusting, I shouldn't.
We 14 didn't have reason to say Rodney or Jerry, I check 15 it, that number, that number is okay, and I' sign, t
16 It was not so many years.
We did -- we did this l
17 pretty few years.
So it wasn't even, you know, 18 sometime I found note on my desk, number -- say we 19 got number 26A, B,
whatever it is, okay, or 26, 27, 20 whatever it is number, and red circle and written i
21 "need water."
I mark on that.
My mark for that, 22 need water, was X, on side.
Or what this mean, this 23 mean that we will go over there next day, couple
)
24 days, or when HP say okay or whatever reason, we ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
42 1
will just put in water.
This one, sir, that's true, 2
I don't recall.
It wasn't done willfully, no.
That 3
will be -- I hope you're not considering me that 4
- stupid, because that will be --
5 MR. BARKLEY:
When you diil this test on 6
August 8th, supposedly there was another person, a 7
Robert Vincent.
8 MR. STIPEK:
I'm sorry?
9 MR. BARKLEY:
Robert Vincent, he helped-
-10 you on the day, he did this.
11 MR, STIPEK:
Yes.
12 MR. BARKLEY:
Do you remember what he 13-did on this test to do this?
14 MR. STIPEK:
I t.ish I do.
Usually when 15 I have partner, I can say'that what I did last.
I 16 guess they gave me this break right away, after the I
17 accident half year earlier, I don't know, so I have 18 paper and you're just holding that paper, whatever 19 you do.
I don't know, that couldn't be done 15 20 minutes, obviously.
I got to go back, we know that l-l 21 cxists over there.
We know that you punch it in and 22 we know you could be control any second in case of 23 anything happen, not just some wrongdoings.
24 So that's like first when I heard that ALL POINTS REPORTING
'(610) 272-6731
j 43 1
.the guys told me you forgot that you went in and 2
punch or wh'tever, you didn't come back.
I said j
a l
3 yes, I.come back, but when, because I was doing 1
4 another test also and that was --
l.
5 MR. HEHL:
What other test?
I i
l 6
MR. STIPEK:
Well, that was -- I don't 1
I 7'
want to blame.that confusion, but just little 8
example, I did have -- actually I did have actually 10 9~
that particular test on that building, auxiliary 10 pump building.
And one' test was -- I forgot the j
11 name -- also battery wasn't finished, that was on 12-nuclear side, MO building, and it was supposed to
.13 finish.
And on top.I was supposed to go and double j
14 check that switch in diesel.
So I don't know how --
j 15 I know now that we were there over 15 minutes, which i
16 it's nonsense if somebody tell you one hour, 17 nonsense to do a test.
To do this test on 18 aux / primary building, if you do it right, you need a 19 minimum two hours if no obstacles, if no HP will i
20 stop you, not less.
Otherwise you just can hurt 21 yourself, okay.
l 22 So that first part I must copy wrong i
23 way from something, I don't know what, or I was i
1 1
24 informed that maybe it was done part which happened l
l l
l ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731
44 T-1 before, that part of over here, okay, one page is 2
already.done.
You're continuing test and re-sign or 3-something really stupid.
And we went back, we went 4
in that nuclear side, we did not finish, apparently, 5
whenever we did that part.
How'I got second part in 6
but not-just sign, and I am not lying, I'm sorry 7
what happened, but I don't know.
8 MR. ROGGE:
When did you become injured 9
in the plant?
10 M R., STIPEK:
I'm sorry?
11 MR. ROGGE:
When did you become injured 12-in the plant?
When did you fall down?
13 MR. STIPEK:
-I don't know, I forgot.
14 About one year, something like that, sir.
15 MR. ROGGE:
So you were injured about 16 the time this test was assigned to you?
I 17 MR. STIPEK:
I don't know, sir.
18 MR. ROGGE:
Because you implied that l.
signing role and not a
I 19 you had shifted into just a
l 20 physical --
21 MR. STIPEK:
That signisng I did a when 22 couple of years I guess.
Because I did have 23 I fell, I fell from ladder, and guy said Jerry, stay i
24 down, because -- well, I appreciate, but I did for ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731-
45 1
Gus.
Gus didn't have to handle ladder.
When he was 2
retiring, I was working for him.
So I said okay.
3 Gus retired maybe three, four years back.
Please, I 4
don't want to try to mistake the years, I don't 5
remember exactly.
So I said okay, guys, now it's my 6
turn.
Maybe it was right, maybe wrong, but that's 7
what put me in that paper business, I just --
8 MR. HEHL:
Do you want to -- I guess we 9
pretty much talked about where we go fl.im here on 10 this thing.
I guess I don't have anymore questions, 11 unless somebody else does.
And if there's anything 12 else you want to add.
13 MR. STIPEK:
I'm sorry?
14 MR. HEHL:
Anything else you want to
)
15 add?
I think we're pretty well done as far as 16 questions.
17 MR. STIPEK:
I don't know how much you 18 believe me.
How much -- do I sound unbelievable, 19 stupid or do I have at least a little, for the 40 20 years, a little credit that you can maybe believe me 21 a little bit that I dfdn't do?
l 22 MS. WALKER:
We'll take that into 23 consideration.
All we can tell you is we will take i
24 into consideration what you've said.
And we've n
l ALL POINTS REPORTING (610) 272-6731 1
46 1
certainly listened and we've taken notes and we'll 2
have the transcript, so we'll take that into 3
consideration.
4 MR. HEHL:
I guess with that, we're 5
done.
We appreciate you coming in.
We will be back 6
in touch.
7 (Proceedings closed.)
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